The Hapsburgs

I think I've filed this in the wrong place, but can't figure out how to change it.  Here goes -

Does anyone know what happened to the daughter of Prince Rudolph and Princess Stephanie von Hapsburg?  I think she was Elisabeth (named after her grandmother).  And, what happened to the 3 children of Franz-Ferdinand and Sophie?  He was the Heir who's death precipitated the First World War.  I've tried to find out information on all these children, but I must be looking in the wrong places, as I just can't find it.  Book titles for both families would be great too!!  Thanks

I have always wondered about those kids myself. Anybody know? I'm sure FF's kids were devastated, losing both parents so violentlyso young

After Franz Josef died, the new emperor was briefly Karl 1. He was the son of Franz Ferdinand's dead brother, I think his name was Otto? So the heir today would likely be a grandchild of Karl.

Thanks Thomas. Is it true that Stephanie was unable to have more children due to complications after contracting a veneral disease from Rudolf he caught from sleeping around? (it's no secret he did this, as he died in a suicide pact with his teenage mistress in 1888.)

Speaking of the suicide, isn't it also true that false stories were circulated by the government to cover the scandal, such as he shot himself accidently in a hunting accident? How soon before the public knew the truth?

 I think there were a lot of rumors circulated about Mayerling, and probably, given the measure of control Franz Josef had over the press, I would say it wasn't until long after he had died, that the general Austrain public knew about what had happened.

Thanks for the info on Elisabeth, Thomas.  Sorry about the spelling - most of the books I've read in Britain spell it HaPsburg.  Mind you, some of them also spell the surname Romanov as Romanoff - and I don't know which one is correct.

I suppose it's hardly surprising that Elisabeth didn't get on with Stephanie - Stephanie and Rudolph were hardly a match made in heaven, and it sounds pretty much like he couldn't stand her.  I daresay that sour relationship spoiled things for Elisabeth as well.

As to Franz-Ferdinand's children - I have found out very little apart from the names of 2 (Max and Sophie or Sophia - again, the spelling varies).  No mention is made of them after the deaths of their parents and one book I read through only mentioned 2 children, despite the photos clearly showing 3.  So, if anyone out there knows of a good book about FF and his family, I'd be delighted if you'd pass on the title/author.  Thanks again.

Thomas - thanks so much for the information you've given me.  I'll be online and going through second-hand bookstores to see if I can find copies of them.  And, to everyone else who's written - my thanks too.  Your help and comments are much appreciated.

Re:  FF and Sophie's children.  One of the things I learned about them is that both boys were put in concentration camps during WWII.  So sad.  I was able to visit one of their homes when I was in Vienna.  It's called Archstetten (sp??) and it's just chock full of pictures of the family and even if you don't speak German, which I don't, you still got an idea.  FF and Sophie are buried there and it's definitely worth a visit, it's really wonderful.  My friend, who was with me, was a complete FF and Sophie fan and she was in tears.

The 3 children stayed with an Aunt, a sister of Sophie's I believe, as well as a valet of FF's ...  after the assassination.  It was, I think, a very loving atmosphere for them.

Please forgive my ignorance here, but I'm not up on my Austrian history. Can I assume that when people refer to Sissi, they are referring to Empress Elizabeth? Also, there has been made mention of "Sissi" films. Would someone be as kind as to enlighten me about them.

Mucho Thank You

Louise

Please forgive my ignorance here, but I'm not up on my Austrian history. Can I assume that when people refer to Sissi, they are referring to Empress Elizabeth? Also, there has been made mention of "Sissi" films. Would someone be as kind as to enlighten me about them.

Mucho Thank You

Louise

You're correct Louise.  Empress Elisabeth and "Sisi" (or "Sissi") are the same person.  She was a fascinating woman.  I will post some more information later on today about her if you like; I have a meeting in a few minutes and will be on-line again shortly.

Jane

Edited:  Sorry I didn't get a chance to finish this earlier.  Louise, as I am sure you know, there are a number of books about Sissi.  Two of the best were penned by Birgitte Hamann.  One is called "Sissi" and a much more detailed one is "The Reluctant Empress" which in my very humble opinion is a very well-written biography.  Apparently a new one came out last year called "Phoenix?"  Haven't read it yet.

I think the movies you have heard about refer to the German "Sissi" trilogy of films that came out in the mid-fifties.  They follow the life of Sissi from Princess of Bavaria to the end of her life.  Sissi was played in all three films by Romy Schneider, who was one of Chanel's favorite post-war models.  If you ever saw "What's New Pussycat?" with Peter Sellers and Peter O'Toole?  Romy played O'Toole's long-suffering girlfriend (I can't remember her character's name).  

In addition to the Sissi trilogy (directed by Ernst...um...oops I will have to check IMDB or something I spaced on his last name), there is "Fall of Eagles" which has been mentioned elsewhere here at the AP site.  I haven't seen that one.

Hope this helped,

Jane

Edited again to add that I see that the film title I referred to was changed by the server once it was posted.  Talk about lost in translation!  Well, instead of "thingy"-cat, think instead of a five letter word starting with a p, containing two s's, ending in a y, which referes to a feline.  "P----cat" is also part of a Tom Jones song, and the title of the movie plays into that and the fact that O'Toole's character calls all his dames that, probably because he can't remember their names.  You get the idea.  

Just bumping this up for Louise.

Jane

Jane, thank you so much for the information. I will scan Amazon for books on the Empress and begin my education on her life and times. I'll also check the vaults on VHS on the movies.

She sounds like a very interesting woman, a life filled with sadness and tragedy.

Louise

Hi Louise,

One of the Vienna palaces where Sisi and Franz Joseph lived is Schloss Schoenbrunn that you may be interested to see (clique on the photo to enter):

http://www.schoenbrunn.at/en/publicdir/

Joanna

I
After Franz Josef died, the new emperor was briefly Karl 1. He was the son of Franz Ferdinand's dead brother, I think his name was Otto? So the heir today would likely be a grandchild of Karl.

Not yet. Karl I's oldest son, Archduke Otto, is still alive. He even has his own website
http://otto.twschwarzer.de/. He's had a distinguished career, a member of the European Parliament, holds several degrees, written many books, etc. The Austrian govt. hasn't treated him well. He only was able to set foot in Austria after signing away any claim to the throne (not that he was going to get it back anyway). The Austian govt. had already confisicated all Hapsburg belongings and properties before this. He's treated much warmer in Germany, Hungary and many of the parts of the former Hapsburg empire.

As for the children of Franz Ferdinand, the Hohenbergs, who couldn't inherit because their mother wasn't royal. They managed to keep many of their properties because there was no chance they would inherit. Franz Ferdinand had set aside stuff from them because of this before hand. There are many descendants of FF out there according to this http://www.angelfire.com/de/verenasroyalty/Hohenberg.html

Joanna, thank you. Another wonderful door in history opened for me. How neat is that? Thanks.

Louise

Thanks everyone for the plethora of information!  I'm still rummaging through bookstores looking for the books Thomas has recommended and if I find any I'll let you know.  Everyone's help is very much appreciated.  Kathleen x