Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Myth and Legends of Survivors => Topic started by: aseverac on November 14, 2004, 11:29:49 AM

Title: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: aseverac on November 14, 2004, 11:29:49 AM
Existe la posibilidad de que la princesa Anastasia haya pasado el resto de sus días refugiada en el norte Argentino, no diré en que lugar hasta no estar seguro de la hipótesis. Inclusive conocemos el lugar donde estan enterrados sus restos, los cuales se podrían inclusive analizar. Testimonios de personas del lugar aseguran que esta joven rusa poseía gran cantidad de joyas fabulosas y vivía en completo estado de reclusión u ocultamiento. Me gustaría conectarme con personas dispuestas a investigar en conjunto el caso.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on November 14, 2004, 01:58:34 PM
Quote
Existe la posibilidad de que la princesa Anastasia haya pasado el resto de sus días refugiada en el norte Argentino, no diré en que lugar hasta no estar seguro de la hipótesis. Inclusive conocemos el lugar donde estan enterrados sus restos, los cuales se podrían inclusive analizar. Testimonios de personas del lugar aseguran que esta joven rusa poseía gran cantidad de joyas fabulosas y vivía en completo estado de reclusión u ocultamiento. Me gustaría conectarme con personas dispuestas a investigar en conjunto el caso.


For those who don´t speak spanish i will try and translate this post:

"There´s a possibility that princess Anastasia spent the rest of her life as a refugee in the north of Argentina, i won´t tell the place until i am sure of this statement. We even know the place where she was buried and her remains could be tested. Witnesses tell convincedly that this young russian girl owned a big amount of fabulous jewells and lived in complete seclussion and hidding. I would like to conect with people willing to investigate this whole case"
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Annie on November 14, 2004, 02:00:57 PM
Thanks for the translation!

I'd like to know more about this! Even if it's not her I'm sure it's an interesting story of some rich Russian girl!
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 15, 2004, 02:44:05 PM
Years ago I bought some old books on the IF, and in one of them is a newspaper clip about one of the claimants.  I think it might have been about this person.  I'll check when I get home and let you know.

Alexa
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Denise on November 16, 2004, 02:18:46 PM
Quote
Years ago I bought some old books on the IF, and in one of them is a newspaper clip about one of the claimants.  I think it might have been about this person.  I'll check when I get home and let you know.

Alexa


This is very interesting.  I would love to hear what information you have.  I tried Google but got nowhere.  

It seems that there are still mysteries regarding the fate of any survivors.  It would be so nice to believe....
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 16, 2004, 02:23:10 PM
I completly forgot to check when I was home.  I'll write myself a note so I don't forget again.

Alexa
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 16, 2004, 03:27:39 PM
On the lisy of claimants thread there is talk of an Alena [?] who was in South America. Could this be the same person?
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Denise on November 16, 2004, 03:41:05 PM
Robert, I believe Alena is from South Africa.   :)

Denise
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 16, 2004, 04:18:08 PM
My mistake then, sorry.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 17, 2004, 08:34:49 AM
I forgot to bring the article to work with me, but this is the gist of it.

A woman from Argentina (but is originally from Germany) claims she is the 6th child of Alix and Nicky, and was born while the IF was imprisoned in Tobolsk.  She claims that the Kaiser helped her escape to Germany where she was adopted by well-to-do family.  She married an Argentinian man and eventually figured out she was Irina Nicolaevna Romanov.  It's an old, old article.  There's no date, but from the ad on the back, I'd place it in the second half of the 1970's (maybe very early '80's).  The article was touted as a "Globe Exclusive," so you know the caliber of the paper it's from.  There's also a picture of the so-called GD Irina Nicolaevna.

If anyone's interested, I can scan the article and e-mail to you.

Alexa
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Kostya on November 17, 2004, 09:36:11 AM
Yeah Alexa please do as i want to read it becasue ever since it came out in the threads i was looking for it and i can't find it.  please scan it or if you can please email it to me you can go to me profile and see my email address.  

thanks alot
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 17, 2004, 09:44:35 AM
Quote
Yeah Alexa please do as i want to read it becasue ever since it came out in the threads i was looking for it and i can't find it.  please scan it or if you can please email it to me you can go to me profile and see my email address.  

thanks alot


Not a problem.  It's right by the front door (I left it there last night so I wouldn't forget it -- lot of good that did!), so when I go home for lunch I'll make a point to bring it back with me.  

If I can scan it so it's not too big, I'll post in on the forum.  If not, I'll turn it into a pdf and e-mail it you and anyone else who wants it.

Alexa
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 17, 2004, 12:56:23 PM
Here it is.  The second part (the one picturing the GD's) goes at the bottom left had side of the first part (the one with Alix), so that the verbage on part 2 matches the verbage in column 3 of part 1.

Alexa

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/daffylexer/Romanov/6thDaughterPt.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/daffylexer/Romanov/6thDaughter2.jpg)
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Michelle on November 17, 2004, 02:41:52 PM
Holy crap!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o  She looks JUST LIKE Alexandra!!!!!  Are there any pics of her when she was a young girl?
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 17, 2004, 02:51:12 PM
That was the only picture of her in the article.  Maybe there's a website up about here somewhere.   I'm sitting on conference call right now, and have nothing better to do (other than pay attention) so I'll take a look around.

Alexa
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 17, 2004, 03:11:04 PM
I've dogpiled and googled and haven't found anything.  Personally, I think it's a crock (it was in the Globe afterall, and there isn't any mention of another child in N or A's diaries), but for whatever reason I find claimants to be quite interesting.

Alexa
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 17, 2004, 03:27:18 PM
Entertaining, perhaps is more like it.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alexa on November 17, 2004, 03:56:21 PM
Quote
Entertaining, perhaps is more like it.


"Entertaining" is definitly the right word for it.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Annie on November 17, 2004, 04:33:22 PM
Read the story, she claims to be IRINA!

edit: okay, I see, she was born in Ekaterinburg, Alexandra was 46 and in poor health, okay, whatever ::)

I'm surprised there were never claimants who said they were the child of one of OTMA and a guard. :-/
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Merrique on November 17, 2004, 04:33:32 PM
Hmmmm....OK that was interesting and briefly entertaining.
If she is supposed to be a Romanov,and a 6th child at that,why hasn't she,if she is still living had her dna tested to see if it matched the IF?Why hasn't her family had this done?

You'd think if she wanted to have her claim recognised and to have her rightful name restored to her she would have done this.

But since this was in The Globe I'll take this new "claiment" as just another wannabe. :-/
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Alice on December 07, 2004, 06:10:07 PM
Quote
Read the story, she claims to be IRINA!

edit: okay, I see, she was born in Ekaterinburg, Alexandra was 46 and in poor health, okay, whatever ::)

I'm surprised there were never claimants who said they were the child of one of OTMA and a guard. :-/


Yes, I'm the grandaughter of Marie and a guard.  :D But I don't post about here . . . I mean, I know the truth and that's all that matters.  ;D

So I'd appreciate being referred to as Alice Nicholaevna, thanks everyone.  ;)
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Laura Mabee on December 07, 2004, 09:23:17 PM
 :o
Does anyone have this link to the website about her?
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: sunnyluv on March 02, 2005, 12:20:45 PM
She <Irina> looks very much like them--amazing likeness!  But where is the proof--why do all these claimants that are alive don't take the DNA test and let people know that it is not just another bogus claim?  The nowday technology permits it...Without it--the claim is nothing.  

Any more info on her?  What is her adoptive family name?  Does she has children?  

The only thing there is likeness--I do not know genetics enough to say if the nature can produce people who are so alike but not related--but children often look different from their parents!  Look at the Romanov family--does any one there looked like a dead-on copy of Alexandra?  I do not think so;

Besides, the story is hard to beleive--how is Romanovs could have another daughter without any sources mentioning that Alexandra is pregnant?  No diary records, no mentioning by family and friends--and how they concealed it from soldiers?  

My impression was that they hoped for the best and endured the rough treatment but still did not expect the end they met--if they suspected that new regime wanted to kill them, they would at least try to smuggle the children out--to seek some escape--even if kids were ill with measles at the time;  I do not think they comprehended the gravity of their situation--so I do not think they would go to extra super unhuman lengh to conceal another pregnancy and childbirth in captivity.

Suppose --as unprobable as it sounds--A. was expecting and they did managed to conceal it  --and the daughter is born and only family --not captors --know about it--how she was smuggled?  The German cousin came?  How he managed to get close to them and where he came from?

The story frankly does not hold at all;  Even if I really wanted it to be--but it really does not;  

Any thoughts?  I did a search and there is nothing on her;

May be considering the likeness, she is some relative?    

What do you guys think?  Keep on posting!  Thanks,  ???
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Ortino on March 02, 2005, 06:27:45 PM
Very good points Sunnyluv. Another thing: why would Alexandra suddenly be pregnant? She goes almost 14 years without having another child and poof! in 1918 she's pregnant? Undoubtedly Alexandra and Nicholas were sexually active, but why now, in the worst possible place, would she want to have a child or even attempt to? Why would they be having one anyway at this time? Almost all their children are fully grown-why have another? I doubt it would be for companionship or something to love. There was no need for an heir anymore. So why? Even though this "Irina" person does look like Alix, the story doesn't fit. Unless she was raped by the guards or something, it doesn't seem plausible.  ::)

They also made a mistake in that article. She would only have one brother, not brothers.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: AGRBear on March 02, 2005, 07:42:41 PM
Irina looks more like Alexandra than AA looks like Anastasia, I think.

If someone wanted to be a child of the Tsar, it seems that person would pick a better month than April 1918. If it was April, it would have had to occur early because she'd have to be capable of traveling  with Nicholas II to Ekaterinburg at the end of that same month, 13/26 April.

A new born infant would have more than complicated the travel.

How free were the Romanovs in Tobolsk?   I've forgotten how far they could walk... I think they were able to  go to church?

A small infant would be easily passed to other hands.

There was never mention of hiring another servent, someone who could have been a wet nurse  in Tobolsk or Ekaterinburg.

Anyone notice any difference with Alexandra in photographs...? Are there any when she standing...?

Was the date O.S. or N.S.?  If old style, she could have been born in March....

AGRBear
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Laura Mabee on March 03, 2005, 02:29:20 PM
AGRBear, you don't think this woman is a serious claimant do you?
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: AGRBear on March 03, 2005, 03:05:28 PM
I always give the claimant the benifit of the doubt and let the investigation of the  truth run it's course.

At this time, I don't see a lot of proof being presented, just an old newspaper clipping with very little information.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: sunnyluv on March 03, 2005, 04:19:55 PM
Am I wrong or this woman was a claimant in the 70's?  Is she still with us and still a claimant?  The article was done long time ago--at this time Romanov remains were not found yet and DNA test was not as easily taken as they are now--still not so easy.  
Based on the likeness of her to Alix, I would consider it is an interesting lead--even if she is not with us any longer, I hope there is still a chance to do the DNA and find out who she is and how she related to the family if she is related;  

But how to find her?  There is no info on her--probably she went unnoticed before we got our web connections;

B.t.w.--I love your point about Tobolsk--about freedom of movement and going to church--if there was some freedome there, then I wonder why did they not try to escape--or smuggle their kids out with someone--did not they get the feeling of danger to their lives?
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Georgiy on March 03, 2005, 04:48:21 PM
I don't think she looks like Alexandra. It's hard to say anything based on one faded not-quite-focussed photo.

The Imperial family went to Church in Tobolsk, but under guard. There was no real freedom of movement for them, and neither had there been since the revolution and imprisonment at Tsarskoe.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Denise on March 03, 2005, 05:10:51 PM
Considering that this article is from the Globe (one step up from Weekly World News) I doubt that this was a legitimate claim.  I wish it were, it is an interesting tale.  However, since no further noise has been heard from this person, I doubt the story's authenticity.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Genevieve on March 09, 2005, 07:23:59 PM
That is not Alexandra, it is the Dowager Empress,Nicholas's mother.    They could not even get
the picture right of the Empress.  Massey had the same picture of her in N&A.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Belochka on March 09, 2005, 07:31:35 PM
So it seems "Anastasia's" have shown up in Europe, Sth Africa and Sth America. No doubt a few drifted through Nth America.

Any one want to stake their claim in Australia and Asia? :-/
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Helen_Azar on March 09, 2005, 09:10:51 PM
Quote
That is not Alexandra, it is the Dowager Empress,Nicholas's mother.    They could not even get
the picture right of the Empress.  Massey had the same picture of her in N&A.


Genevieve,

Are you referring to the picture in the newspaper, to the left of the claimant's? I think it is Alexandra...
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Candice on March 10, 2005, 03:45:44 PM
The person sitting on the right of the Empress is definitely not Alexandra.  Her face structure is different to that of the Empress's delicate small face. Of course that is only my opinion.  I just don't see any resemblance.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Lanie on March 10, 2005, 04:00:44 PM
The photo is Alix.  It was taken in 1916 I believe.  Alix aged very poorly; the shadows and angles of her face, since she looks older, probably just makes it look more unlike her.  As I recall this photo miiight be online at the Yale Beinecke Archives; probably a clearer version there.  But it's definitely Alix.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Helen_Azar on March 10, 2005, 04:03:20 PM
Quote
..it's definitely Alix.


Yes, I agree.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Lanie on March 10, 2005, 04:09:50 PM
Here we go.  One can tell it's certainly Alix.

http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/dl_crosscollex/romanov/oneITEM.asp?pid=1000432&iid=1000432&srchtype=
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Helen_Azar on March 10, 2005, 04:20:18 PM
Thanks, Lanie. I have to admit, this "claimant" does have a strong resemblence to an older Alix, at least in that photo, at that angle, but that doesn't mean anything of course...
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Lanie on March 10, 2005, 05:11:57 PM
The mere idea that N&A had another child, and in 1918 no less, is just so laughable to me...
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: AGRBear on March 10, 2005, 08:20:15 PM
I don't want to get into the subject and mention anything in detail, however, I do recall that certain birth control items of Alexandra were found in the Impatiev House.  So, if she was still using some kind of prevention than there is a possibility that she could have become pregnant, again.

I assure you, if Alexandra actually was pregnant, it wasn't a laughing matter to her or anyone.

AGRBear

Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: samcr on March 16, 2005, 09:09:16 AM
I just cant see it really , her getting pregnant and no one knew about it or spoke about it !surely they couldnt of kept it a secret from the guards ,people like that!
there again it would be intresting if it was true!
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Laura Mabee on March 25, 2005, 12:43:54 PM
With the health of Alexei, and the frail health of the empress herself. I find it highly unlikely that she would become pregnate. I know Niky and her loved eachother dearly, but I am sure, they would know the ill treatment of any new family memeber, especially under arrest. With all that said, were they imtimate? Sure.. but I am almost positive they would be 100% on the ball about pregnancy
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: RealAnastasia on May 09, 2005, 09:00:04 PM
Hi you all!:

                   I'm interested in this thread for I'm Argentinian, as the guy who started this discussion. I'm an Anna Anderson supporter (Yes; despite de DNA proofs. I don't believe in them, since in Argentina we had some problems in a police case with DNA) but I wouldn't speak about Anna Anderson. Possibily I can help the "Argentinian Investigator" and he may help me too, for I read somewhere that Lili Denh dead in Argentina. I'm writing a story of "Recoleta Cemetery" the most famous in Buenos Aires, and I would to know exactly where Lili Denh is buried, if she is buried in my country.

                       Warmly
                       RealAnastasia
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: etonexile on May 09, 2005, 09:14:23 PM
RealAnastasia
Sorry about the poor state of DNA testing in Argentina...the rest of the world has it down successfully.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Tsarevna_Olga on May 25, 2005, 09:44:41 AM
I think that the woman looks like to Alexandra.
But in modern time i've never heard about this woman.
Do you know if this woman was really the sixth child of Nicholas and Alix?
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Michelle on June 04, 2005, 03:13:47 PM
Quote
I think that the woman looks like to Alexandra.
But in modern time i've never heard about this woman.
Do you know if this woman was really the sixth child of Nicholas and Alix?


She most likely is not a sixth child of Nicholas and Alexandra, but it's still interesting to discuss the miniscule possibility. :)
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: stepan on June 04, 2005, 06:42:47 PM
Quote
Hi you all!:

                    I'm interested in this thread for I'm Argentinian, as the guy who started this discussion. I'm an Anna Anderson supporter (Yes; despite de DNA proofs. I don't believe in them, since in Argentina we had some problems in a police case with DNA) but I wouldn't speak about Anna Anderson. Possibily I can help the "Argentinian Investigator" and he may help me too, for I read somewhere that Lili Denh dead in Argentina. I'm writing a story of "Recoleta Cemetery" the most famous in Buenos Aires, and I would to know exactly where Lili Denh is buried, if she is buried in my country.

                        Warmly
                        RealAnastasia

I know that Lili Denh lived in Caracas in Venezuela. But if she died in Argenina I don´t know.Interesting woman by the way. She believed in Anna Anderson after having visited her in he 50´s.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: CatherineNY on June 04, 2005, 09:57:28 PM
It is a distasteful thought, but if this woman was really a Romanov, she is more likely to have been the daughter of one of the girls than of Alexandra. However, because I do not like to believe the more lurid stories about what happened to the family in captivity, I tend to think she was a fraud (although, in the one picture we have seen, from an extremely dubious source, she does bear a resemblance to Alexandra).
This is not the only rumor about a "fifth daughter of N&A" -- there was a story in James Blair Lovell's biography of AA about a fifth daughter who was raised in the Netherlands. To both of these stories, my response is -- yeah, right.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Anastasia_R on June 12, 2005, 01:52:05 PM
Quote
I forgot to bring the article to work with me, but this is the gist of it.

A woman from Argentina (but is originally from Germany) claims she is the 6th child of Alix and Nicky, and was born while the IF was imprisoned in Tobolsk.  She claims that the Kaiser helped her escape to Germany where she was adopted by well-to-do family.  She married an Argentinian man and eventually figured out she was Irina Nicolaevna Romanov.  It's an old, old article.  There's no date, but from the ad on the back, I'd place it in the second half of the 1970's (maybe very early '80's).  The article was touted as a "Globe Exclusive," so you know the caliber of the paper it's from.  There's also a picture of the so-called GD Irina Nicolaevna.

If anyone's interested, I can scan the article and e-mail to you.

Alexa


Could you please e-mail this to me?This is very interesting,I'd like to learn more.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Anastasia_R on June 12, 2005, 02:10:43 PM
Quote
Existe la posibilidad de que la princesa Anastasia haya pasado el resto de sus días refugiada en el norte Argentino, no diré en que lugar hasta no estar seguro de la hipótesis. Inclusive conocemos el lugar donde estan enterrados sus restos, los cuales se podrían inclusive analizar. Testimonios de personas del lugar aseguran que esta joven rusa poseía gran cantidad de joyas fabulosas y vivía en completo estado de reclusión u ocultamiento. Me gustaría conectarme con personas dispuestas a investigar en conjunto el caso.


Tener el mujer restos mortales?Si ya no,do el gobierno tener intencion a?Muy gracias,aseverac!(Yo esperar mi Espanol es bueno!)

translation:Have the woman's remains been tested?If not yet,does the government have plans to?Thank you very much,aseverac!
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Anastasia_R on June 12, 2005, 02:17:30 PM
I know it noght not be possible,but I still find this very interesting.I have never heard about this claim,I'll have to learn more.
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Anastasia_R on June 12, 2005, 02:17:42 PM
not*
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Laura Mabee on June 17, 2005, 03:10:57 PM
Anastasia_R, if you need to correct your message that you've already submitted you can click on the modify button: (see below)
(http://img241.echo.cx/img241/9904/mod10fl.jpg) (you can find this button on the upper right hand side of the any messages in a thread)
Once you click it, it will take you to your message, where you can edit, or fix any spelling errors, and add any information that you forgot  :)

Hope this helps   :)
Title: Re: Investigación Anastasia. Argentina
Post by: Tsarina_Liz on January 28, 2006, 09:40:55 PM
Anastasia to Olga to Alix.  This is the way the woman describes her physical appearance as it changed from youth to adulthood.  If this were true, than she would have been morphing her bone structure continually for years.  While the three women (AOA) were related and did bear some similarities there were striking differences between them.  I could understand the claimant saying that she had Anastasia's eyes and Alix's nose or something like that but saying that she looked exactly like each one of them?  Impossible.