Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: HerrKaiser on January 10, 2005, 11:43:09 AM

Title: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 10, 2005, 11:43:09 AM
By the by, Dona's fondness for jewels apparently did not result in a collection from her husband that compares to that of Alexandra or Mary, true? What ever became of the jewels Dona did have?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Martyn on January 11, 2005, 06:45:33 AM
Quote
By the by, Dona's fondness for jewels apparently did not result in a collection from her husband that compares to that of Alexandra or Mary, true? What ever became of the jewels Dona did have?


I'm not an expert on the jewellery collection of the Hohenzollern family, but you may be correct in saying that Dona's jewels were not in the same league as Alix of Wales or her daughter-in-law May.  May, it must be said, pulled out all the stops when it came to acquiring jewels, and her collection way outstripped in value and importance the collections of the previous two queens of England.
Anybody have any info about Hohenzollern jewels, or are there any books that deal with them?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 09:36:38 AM
The one I'm most familiar with is the tiara that Victoria Louise was seen in and which she had most of her life and then it passed to Queen Frederika of Greece and I'm not sure where it went from there--I think to her daughter Queen Sophia of Spain.

Empress Augusta had just a few tiaras, I think, based on photos. She was pretty religious and pious so perhaps she thought it was wasteful? You don't read much about her entertaining at parties ala Miechen or MF so she'd really just need some jewellery for State visits and the like.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 11, 2005, 09:45:40 AM
Thanks GDElla. That tracks with the fact that the Hohenzollerns did not have a "crowning" at their coronation when the empire was founded. Both Wilhelm I and son Frederick felt the crowns and jewels were not in the spirit of the revitalization of the Holy Roman Empire. Theirs was an intended more"peoples" monarchy and hence, the drive to amassive a big stach of jewels did not get much attention. WI himself even slept on an army cot in some sort of act of humility. So, all that being the tone of the German imperial family, the collection of jewels must limited.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 10:23:22 AM
Some  of Dona's tiaras:

DIAMOND TREFOIL TIARA
This is a diamond tiara which consists of 4 large & 8 small trefoils The base is a wreath of acorns and oak leaves, centering on a crowned and winged crest of the Imperial Family. Interestingly, Kaiser Wilhelm II designed this tiara himself as a present for their 25th Wedding Anniversary. It eventually passed to Kira who was seen in it a few times. It was apparently later sold and broken up into 2 separate tiaras. This seems to be one of Dona's favorite tiaras and it features in some of her better known photos and portraits.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/Trefoil1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/preu20auguste20victoria20clover.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/augusteschleswig18581.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 10:36:18 AM
One of the most familiar (and maybe pricey, I'm not sure) tiaras is the Meander tiara which belonged to Crown Princess Cecile. A popular style around the turn of the century, the Meander was a particularly attractive diamond & platinum (unusual choice) tiara. There are 2 rows of meanders which are separated by a rather intricate trelliswork. In the middle of each of the trellis is a large brilliant diamond. It was designed by the Imperial jeweller Koch. Crown Prince Wilhelm presented it to his bride on the occasion of their wedding in 1905. The tiara was worn by Grand Duchess Kyra of Russia at her marriage to Cecile's second son (and heir to the Prussian throne after his brother's morganatic marriage) in 1938. This grand affair demonstrates the importance of this tiara within the family. It was also worn by Kyra & Louis Ferdinand's daughters at their weddings:  Marie-Cecilie in 1965 and Xenia in 1973. Given its value--both monetarily and sentimentally it is probably still owned by the family.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/MC3A4ander2DDiadem1.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/post-4-1082094727.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/kra1.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 10:42:52 AM
Diamond Flower Tiara
Another of Dona's tiaras was this one which was shaped like a series of interlocking 'flowers'. Every jewel is a diamond. By royal standards, this is a relatively small one, consisting of a diamond base with 7 diamond 'flowers' and each is topped with a diamond. This tiara is also seen in one of the more well-known photos of Dona. I haven't found any photos of Victoria Louise or any of the daughters-in-law wearing it so I don't know if it was inherited or sold.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/prussia20120tir20brillants.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 10:55:38 AM
Dona & Wilhelm's daughter Victoria Louise also possessed a very lovely diamond tiara which she wore when she married Ernst August, Duke of Brunswick in 1913. It must've been a particular favorite as VL is seen wearing it even as an elderly woman. I'm not sure if this is the tiara which Frederika wore at her wedding to King Paul of Greece.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/vluisa1.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/ger20victoria20braunschweig1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/93502.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/HAN20Duchess.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Martyn on January 11, 2005, 11:10:50 AM
Amazing tiaras GDElla.  You have done us proud as usual.  I am not overly fond of that trefoil tiara of Dona's - the design is rather ghastly and top heavy.
I do like Victoria Louise's tiara though and the photo of her as an old lady is quite remarkable - reminds me of those Beaton photos of Marie Louise late in her life.
The images of Dona with white hair are much better than those of her as a younger woman.  She really suits that hair colour and looks lovely and majestic in the portrait - no longer 'the poor insignificant little princess' that QV disparaged....
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 11:14:07 AM
There was a well-known set of photos taken of Victoria Louise (perhaps for her coming of age or her engagement) where she wears a lovely diamond tiara which is similar in shape if not the design to the Meander tiara which belonged to Cecile. I'm not sure if it's this tiara or the her wedding tiara which her daughter Frederika wore at her wedding. I think it may be this one as Frederika would later inherit it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/Prussian20Diamond20Tiara2C20prcc20Viktoria20Luise.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/d20greece20frederika20spain.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 11:20:29 AM
Another photo of Dona in the Diamond Floral Tiara
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/ger20auguste20diamond20tiara1.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 11:36:09 AM
Some other tiaras:

Dona: A diamond and aquamarine tiara with matching necklace and earrings:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/GERM20Augusta1.jpg)

An emerald tiara (which looks very tiny perched on Dona's large hairdo!). (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/dgerprussiaaugusteVictemeralds1.jpg)
I think it may be this emerald & diamond tiara:  
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/HAN20aucthanovertiara1.jpg)
This tiara dates from the early 1800s--it may be of Russian origin and then brought into the Prussian royal house through inheritance. It is designed as a graduated bandeau of triple laurel leaves. There are 13 larger round diamonds which compose the 'buds', with 5 pairs of pear-shaped cabochon emeralds topped by diamonds. They are mounted in silver and gold. This tiara was inherited by Victoria Louise. It had been received by Dona in 1906 as another tiara from Wilhelm to commemorate their silver annivesary. It went from Victoria Louise to her daughter-in-law Sophie of Hanover. It was sold in 1974.

Cecile (in a lovely portrait of her) in a ruby tiara:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/preussencecilierubies1.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/Hohenzollern20Rubin2DTiara11.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Martyn on January 11, 2005, 11:41:37 AM
The portrait of Cecile in the ruby tiara is very lovely.  Still not sure that the Hohenzollern jewels compete with the Windsors and the Romanovs.....
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Martyn on January 11, 2005, 11:44:15 AM
The leaf and berry motif is very popular for tiaras.  That emerald and diamond tiara is very remeiniscenyt of Olga K's ruby and diamond berry and leaf tiara........Didn't Margherita of Italy have something similar as well?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 11, 2005, 12:59:55 PM
Yes, GDElla you are the oracle! And I agree with Martyn...the design by WII is fairly ghastly  :D ! But, I am sure Dona was gracious in accepting her husband's attempt at creastivity.
While the jewels do not measure up to the Romanov or Windsor's collections, I am more impressed than otherwise would have expected. Isn't Cecelie in her ruby tiara the picture of a fairy tale princess? She really had the perfect look.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 01:10:49 PM
GDElla - the postcard of the "bride and groom" is a fake.  German postcard publishers would add veils, etc., to pictures to make them look like wedding ones. It was unusual for the Prussians to release photos from weddings  -- and I have postcards of "brides" for nearly all of the Kaiser's kids.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 01:13:57 PM
Quote
There was a well-known set of photos taken of Victoria Louise (perhaps for her coming of age or her engagement) where she wears a lovely diamond tiara which is similar in shape if not the design to the Meander tiara which belonged to Cecile. I'm not sure if it's this tiara or the her wedding tiara which her daughter Frederika wore at her wedding. I think it may be this one as Frederika would later inherit it.
[img

George VI allowed Frederika to borrow the Hannover tiara, which she wore at her wedding - at least for some of the photos.  I have several photos from her wedding but as the photos are under 75 years, I cannot post them (copyright restrictions.)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Martyn on January 11, 2005, 01:16:00 PM
Quote
GDElla - the postcard of the "bride and groom" is a fake.  German postcard publishers would add veils, etc., to pictures to make them look like wedding ones. It was unusual for the Prussians to release photos from weddings  -- and I have postcards of "brides" for nearly all of the Kaiser's kids.


Well GDElla, let's see it anyway please.  It will just be interesting to see a picture of them together; whether it is a fake or not, I don't really care....Do pots it for us if you have time.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 01:19:13 PM
Quote

Well GDElla, let's see it anyway please.  It will just be interesting to see a picture of them together; whether it is a fake or not, I don't really care....Do pots it for us if you have time.


Martyn,  GDElla did post the "wedding" of VL and EA -  that's what I was commenting on.  
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Martyn on January 11, 2005, 02:48:11 PM
Quote

Martyn,  GDElla did post the "wedding" of VL and EA -  that's what I was commenting on.  


Well fake or not, it is actually quite a nice image.  GDElla is always so very generous wioth her images and information and we all appreciate her generosity.  Hugely.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 11, 2005, 03:53:04 PM
yes indeed, I greatly appreciate all the photos whether or not they have been slightly altered or not. Keep them coming Grandduchess!
Why would George VI be on such good terms with Fredericka at the time of her wedding by loaning her a tiara? Did George attend?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 04:18:07 PM
Quote
GDElla - the postcard of the "bride and groom" is a fake.  German postcard publishers would add veils, etc., to pictures to make them look like wedding ones. It was unusual for the Prussians to release photos from weddings  -- and I have postcards of "brides" for nearly all of the Kaiser's kids.


Oh, I know--I mean it obviously isn't an actual photograph. Still, it looks like the picked the actual tiara she wore so I put it in. (Hope I didn't cause any confusion--it looked pretty staged to me, ala those montages of family members). The dress didn't look at all like how I've seen VL's described. I didn't know that they didn't like to release photos though--interesting. I just figured I hadn't stumbled across any yet, just sketches. Wonder why--the Romanovs didn't do it either for a long time (and those dresses/jewels would've been something to see on some of those brides!). I guess we just have Vicky's wedding photograph and Irene's to go by.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 04:22:27 PM
Quote
yes indeed, I greatly appreciate all the photos whether or not they have been slightly altered or not. Keep them coming Grandduchess!
Why would George VI be on such good terms with Fredericka at the time of her wedding by loaning her a tiara? Did George attend?


I don't know his relations with VL but weren't they still on pretty good terms with the Greeks? Marina and Philip had married in by then. Perhaps it had more to do with Paul.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 04:23:38 PM
George VI did not attend the wedding.  Frederika did seek permission to marry, as a British princess -although technically she wasn't.  George VI also loaned the tiara (more like a small crown) to Ortrud when she married Ernst August.    Elizabeth II allowed Pss Alexandra of Hannover to borrow the tiara when she married Andreas of Leiningen.  Strangely enough,  the crown was not worn by Chantal when she married Ernst August in 1981.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 04:26:46 PM
"The dress didn't look at all like how I've seen VL's described. I didn't know that they didn't like to release photos though--interesting. I just figured I hadn't stumbled across any yet, just sketches. Wonder why--the Romanovs didn't do it either for a long time (and those dresses/jewels would've been something to see on some of those brides!). I guess we just have Vicky's wedding photograph and Irene's to go by.[/quote]


I asked VL years ago - in the 70s about her wedding - and she told me in a letter that she had no photos of her wedding.  I do at least one postcard of the wedding - but it is more like a sketch.   I think the only Romanov bride I have is Marie Pavlovna and Wilhelm of Sweden -
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2005, 04:31:28 PM
Quote
George VI did not attend the wedding.  Frederika did seek permission to marry, as a British princess -although technically she wasn't.  George VI also loaned the tiara (more like a small crown) to Ortrud when she married Ernst August.    Elizabeth II allowed Pss Alexandra of Hannover to borrow the tiara when she married Andreas of Leiningen.  Strangely enough,  the crown was not worn by Chantal when she married Ernst August in 1981.


Maybe the marriage would've ended up better if she had.  :) Didn't George, Duke of Kent attend the wedding--especially fitting seeing as how Marina was the groom's cousin?

That's a shame VL had no wedding photos. How nice you were able to talk to her--I find her fascinating (I love her autobiography and her romance/marriage). I have the Illustrated London News' issue of the wedding with some decent sketches but I'm never entirely happy with the 'action' ones (the dance, etc) as it's hard to really get an idea of the faces, dresses, etc..

There are some photos of Helen Vladimirovna and Prince Nicholas of Greece's wedding floating around here somewhere. Also one of Mavra (alone, not with KR). I would LOVE to have seen Ella but I think I have to make do with the sketch and since the brides wore the same regalia, use some imagination.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 04:34:47 PM


"There are some photos of Helen Vladimirovna and Prince Nicholas of Greece's wedding floating around here somewhere. Also one of Mavra (alone, not with KR). I would LOVE to have seen Ella but I think I have to make do with the sketch and since the brides wore the same regalia, use some imagination. [/quote]


I've seen the postcard of Helen and Nicholas (but never win it)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 30, 2008, 08:00:37 PM
In a New York Times article, April 1921, on the death and funeral of Kaiserin Augusta, it states "For though the Emperor insisted upon the utmost simplicity on her part in his home, yet for her court appearances he desired her to outshine all other women. To this end, he helped to provide her with nearly $2,000,000. worth of jewels, a collection second only to that of the Czarina."

If this is true, it will be very interesting to research her collection as it compares to that of the Romanovs and Windsors. William actually designed some of her pieces himself.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2008, 08:40:12 PM
There used to be a thread on this but it seems to have disappeared.  :(

Wilhelm did design several pieces for Dona--unfortunately, they weren't very attractive, at least in my opinion.  :-X
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2008, 08:50:52 PM
Some of Dona's pieces:

diamond tiara set with aquamarines

tiara of brilliants and emeralds

a 'small' diamond tiara consisting of a diamond base with 7 diamond flowers with each flower is also topped with a diamond

tiara of diamonds and pearls

a diamond tiara with 4 large and 8 small trefoils with a base consisting of a wreath of acorns and oak leaves, centering on a crowned and winged crest of the German Imperial Family. Wilhelm II designed this tiara and it was a gift for their silver wedding anniversary in 1906

emerald & diamond tiara from the first quarter of the 19th century. It is designed as a graduated bandeau of triple laurel leaves, highlighted with 13 larger millegrain-set round daimonds simulating buds, interspaced with five pairs of diamond-capped pear-shaped cabochon emeralds, one irreglarly vaceted, mounted in silver and gold. It is probably of Russian origing, dating from the first quarter of the 19th century an arrived through descent in the House of Prussia rowerds the end of the century. Dona received this tiara from Wilhelm at the time of their anniversary in 1906 and it was eventually inherited by Victoria Louise. It was sold in 1974.

Dona also had many gorgeous sets of pearls which she often wore in long, looped strands.

Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2008, 08:56:30 PM
I think this is the anniversary emerald & diamond tiara. You can also see her lovely brooch and necklaces. If the tiara is the emerald one, I would suppose the one necklace and brooch consist of emeralds as well. You can also see the numerous pearls she wears near her waist.

(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs6/augusteschleswig1858-4.jpg)

I think this may be the aquamarine tiara

(http://worldofroyalty.typepad.com/photos/pictures_of_royalty/augustavictoria.jpg)

The trefoil tiara Wilhelm designed

(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs6/augusteschleswig1858.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2008, 09:04:16 PM
This could be the diamond tiara (3rd tiara mentioned in my post)

(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs6/augusteschleswig1858-5.jpg)

aquamarine tiara & set

(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs6/augusteschleswig1858-9.jpg)

Whopper of a brooch (either emerald or sapphire it appears)

(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs6/augusteschleswig1858-10.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 31, 2008, 01:58:13 AM
I wonder how her collection compared to Vickys? Vicky inherited all Queen Elizabeths jewels too.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: ashdean on January 31, 2008, 09:57:13 AM
Cartierwent to Holland in 1920 and bought from Wilhelm (who had a cash flow problem )some of the Hohenzollern pearls..
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 31, 2008, 11:16:46 AM
thanks Grandduchess for the info and pictures. If the NY Times claim that Augusta's jewel collection was second only to Alexandra's, it would have been larger and more grand than what seems documented. Is that correct? Any ideas of what is missing and where they went?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 31, 2008, 08:48:34 PM
As the Kaiserin is a less-known figure than Empress Alexandra, and even at that the whereabouts of many Romanov jewels is unknown, it's not surprising that many of Dona's pieces's whereabouts, even their provenance, are unclear or unknown. Most of the ones that are known are because they stayed in the royal 'limelight' through her daughter Victoria Louise and VL's descendants.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Mari on February 01, 2008, 12:26:39 AM
Have any Books been written about these jewels? Or the jewels included in a Book of any kind?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Norbert on February 01, 2008, 05:17:28 AM
A large collection of Frederick the Great's bejewelled suff boxes are in the Gilbert Collection  and was exhibited until last week at Somerset House. I believe it is now being moved to V and A museum 
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 01, 2008, 09:29:18 AM
As the Kaiserin is a less-known figure than Empress Alexandra, and even at that the whereabouts of many Romanov jewels is unknown, it's not surprising that many of Dona's pieces's whereabouts, even their provenance, are unclear or unknown. Most of the ones that are known are because they stayed in the royal 'limelight' through her daughter Victoria Louise and VL's descendants.

Yes, agree, that makes sense. Relative, however, to the claim made in the NY Times, what scope are we talking about in terms of important pieces--tiaras, major necklaces, earings, broches, bracelets--historically speaking of what is known to have existed? Were there hundreds of pieces, scores? The list above is about 6 notable items; the windsor threads show at least 20. Just trying to get a feeling of quantity. thanks!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: ashdean on February 01, 2008, 11:58:21 AM
As the Kaiserin is a less-known figure than Empress Alexandra, and even at that the whereabouts of many Romanov jewels is unknown, it's not surprising that many of Dona's pieces's whereabouts, even their provenance, are unclear or unknown. Most of the ones that are known are because they stayed in the royal 'limelight' through her daughter Victoria Louise and VL's descendants.

Yes, agree, that makes sense. Relative, however, to the claim made in the NY Times, what scope are we talking about in terms of important pieces--tiaras, major necklaces, earings, broches, bracelets--historically speaking of what is known to have existed? Were there hundreds of pieces, scores? The list above is about 6 notable items; the windsor threads show at least 20. Just trying to get a feeling of quantity. thanks!
The " little Sancy" diamond which has for long been part of the family jewls has recently been on display in Brussels in a great historic gems exhibition...it is still owned by the head of the family or a associated trust..
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 01, 2008, 06:30:58 PM
The Sancy Diamond is a whopping 40 carats and has been in the Hohenzollern collection since Frederick I. This diamond was one of a pair, the other having 55 carats and the larger is on permanent display at the Louvre.

Does anyone know how Augusta worn this gem?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on February 01, 2008, 09:33:31 PM
I suppose getting a feel for the collection would need clarification--are we still referring to only Augusta Victoria's jewelry or the Hohenzollern jewels (Crown and personal) in total?

I only supplied the information I had at hand--I'm sure there are much better jewel experts than I who could supply more and who have contributed greatly to the accumulation of information on the Windsor jewels. It's to be expected though that there will be more on the latter since the jewels are still commonly seen today--look how some of the jewels belonging to Queens Victoria, Alexandra and Mary have fallen off the radar and they didn't even suffer a revolution! Just the progression of various inheritances, sales, donations to charity and items just stuck away in the vaults. Most of the items I listed above had 'current whereabouts unknown' and sometimes even the provenance of the items.

Based on some of her photos, not just the ones I've posted, Dona seems to have had quite a large quantity (and quality) of brooches, necklaces and earrings. I don't think that she had a good number of tiaras (though just the 5 or so listed would seem pretty good to most of us!) and I don't think she had the opportunity ala Queens Alexandra & Mary or Empresses Marie and Alexandra to show them off. The Hohenzollerns didn't have coronations and I don't think they had the equivalent of the Opening of Parliament which enabled the British Queens to dress themselves in their finest.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Lucien on January 13, 2009, 04:09:22 AM
http://www.spsg.de/index.php?id=6667
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 13, 2009, 08:40:26 AM
Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 13, 2009, 01:16:14 PM
I am not sure about the private jewels held by the family. It seems to me that most have been dispersed through sale and inheritance, wedding gifts and simple financial need. [as has been mentioned] However, Lord Twining has  several  nice pictures in his  Crown Jewels of Europe, sadly, in black and white.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 13, 2009, 02:12:07 PM
Yes...still one of the best sources around.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 22, 2009, 03:33:27 PM
There's an exhibition - (palace of Charlotten, and some great shopping department stores in Germany) with copies of the Crowns and also privat jewellery...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2009, 08:35:43 AM
You have a link ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 23, 2009, 08:47:52 AM
only some newspapers

http://www.das-schloss-steglitz.de/fileadmin/files_common/journal/archiv/Ausgabe%202007-04.pdf

http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2004/0719/berlin/0150/index.html

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swamp-hamburg.de/images/krone.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swamp-hamburg.de/kompetenzen/shoppingcenteraktionen/index.html&usg=__D9QE9BnuiOhsey6YE6t8w3MPz_M=&h=903&w=1204&sz=741&hl=de&start=2&um=1&tbnid=2Atl330zRS6EyM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpreussische%2Bjuwelen,%2Bbaumgartl%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DN%26ie%3DUTF-8

his name is Dieter Baumgartl
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2009, 09:25:21 AM
Not all are Hohanzollern jewels I see...The Imperial State Crown is also there...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 23, 2009, 01:44:11 PM
The classic crown shown on the website Alexander 1917 provided is not, I think, the Hohenzollern crown. It looks to me like the Hannover family crown.

Here is the Hohenzollern crown:

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/Hohenzollerncrown.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 23, 2009, 03:12:11 PM
Right, not only Prussia, also British, Russia, France....crowns, orbs etc..and privat items....nice to see it
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 24, 2009, 07:26:15 PM
Yes...I love that sapphire & diamond tiara that Dona once worn...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 25, 2009, 05:26:27 AM
I love the CrownPrincess Ruby necklace...

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/2225933120100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 25, 2009, 01:10:45 PM
And bacelet and brooch...It was a demi-parure.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 25, 2009, 01:38:19 PM
Just how did she perch that tiara on top of that hair, I wonder?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 25, 2009, 07:14:16 PM
with those coiffeurs it's not a hard task.. put your hair over a ring of foam plastic, and morst of the rhinestone things hold..without many hairpins...and those tiaras a sometimes really heavy...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 25, 2009, 07:30:25 PM
That hairstyle actually came from Japan.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 25, 2009, 09:58:54 PM
It does, Eric. But to me it looks like an exagerrated Gibson rather than Geisha.  And, I do not think they had foam plastic in those days.  A coill of fabric perhaps or a rat. In any case, something had to hold it in place. Pity the poor maid who had that job!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 26, 2009, 02:20:41 AM
something had to hold it in place.

Gravity and hairpins.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 26, 2009, 10:48:15 AM
Good answer, HK ! But I still think it might have taken a bit more than that.  As this was a portait picture,  perhaps she simply did not move around very much?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 26, 2009, 10:58:09 AM
It does took a lot of effort to look good in those days.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: CountessKate on January 26, 2009, 01:44:28 PM
As long as her hair was securely pulled around its foundation pads, a tiara was like a hat, it could be anchored quite solidly with long pins as these could be driven deep into the pads.   An extremely upright posture and slow stately movement was not only regal, it was essential to ensure nothing came adrift up the top!  Women had to wear these things to balls and dance in them (and the corsets and high heels and gowns with long trains) and frankly, I don't know why Ginger Rogers thought she was anything special keeping up with Fred Astaire backwards and in heels - she should have tried it in one of those outfits.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 26, 2009, 01:45:55 PM
Good answer, HK ! But I still think it might have taken a bit more than that.  As this was a portait picture,  perhaps she simply did not move around very much?

Actually you are on the mark. They really did not move too much and they were taught through years of training how to walk and keep their heads, necks, and shoulders in place to project a stately air and "highness" appearance. So, balancing tiaras was a built-in capability.

Plus, while Eric may be correct about the weight of some jewels, most tiaras were surprisingly light. Even the imperial state crown, which looks like it must weigh a ton, is only about 2 pounds. I think Aretha's hat weighed more! :)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 26, 2009, 01:53:41 PM
I think Cecilie was lucky to escape the crinolines and corsets that her mother had to wear. Her era was much less harh than a previous generation. I wonder if the ruby demi-parure (you can see the red stones from a painting) was still in the family ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 26, 2009, 02:05:54 PM
2 pounds on top of your head can be a weight to deal with ! I can gaurantee that!  Yes, posture and training are important, but handling that load  can be a bother. Especially in heels.  But I do not think they wore high heels in those days. They wore lower  "pumps" that had flat  heel & toe support.
 And, HK, I liked Aretha's hat. It was fun and classy.  {I admit it looked like she was on her way to church, though}.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 26, 2009, 02:08:38 PM
Yes...In a few years, the big tiaras would be out of vogue. Small one would be in. I think Cecilie had a few lighter tiaras too...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 26, 2009, 06:28:31 PM
She had the lovely Meander one.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 26, 2009, 06:52:56 PM
It does, Eric. But to me it looks like an exagerrated Gibson rather than Geisha.  And, I do not think they had foam plastic in those days.  A coill of fabric perhaps or a rat. In any case, something had to hold it in place. Pity the poor maid who had that job!


may this will help
http://www.fashion-era.com/hats-hair/hats_hair_6_hairstyles_fashion_history_1900_1920.htm

pats - if foam plastic or not... only translation for Schaumstoff, which is still used to-day - hairparts - now extensions - are used for those hiarstyle, and rememeber the high things of Marie Antoinette
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 27, 2009, 10:41:38 AM
Indeed. I like the meander one too...I think that one is still with the family.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 27, 2009, 03:24:17 PM
Isn't it the "wedding" tiara?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 27, 2009, 05:47:56 PM
Yes...I don't know if Cecilie herself wore it on her wedding since no wedding photos survive of that day.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 27, 2009, 06:52:04 PM
Wilhelm (Jr) presented Cecile with the tiara on the morning of her wedding day so it's doubtful she wore it that day. Her DIL Kyra and Kyra's daughters Marie-Cecile & Xenia wore it on their wedding days. It's not the Hohenzollern 'brautkrone' though worn by previous brides like Dona, Irene and Victoria Louise. Cecile's daughter Cecile wore her mother's equally lovely Faberge tiara on her wedding day. This tiara was a wedding gift from Cecile's Romanov relatives.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: ashdean on January 28, 2009, 06:42:22 AM
I love the CrownPrincess Ruby necklace...

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/2225933120100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Wasnt that a sapphire necklace?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 28, 2009, 07:37:33 AM
She did have a similar sapphire necklace (part of a sapphire parure that belonged to the Prussian royals) but she's wearing part of the ruby parure that had belonged to Queen Elisabeth of Prussia in this instance.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 28, 2009, 07:39:21 AM
From Ursula's site:

In the swedish magazine SVENSK DAMTIDNING, in the numbers of the spring 1956, some articles about the memories of Crown Princess Cecile of Germany (1886-1954) are on public.
The articles mention that the Crown Princess left her jewels to her chauffeur Mr Otto Groha.

She wrote her last wills on May 2nd 1952 and January 29th 1954. On October 21st 1955 a law court annulled her last will.

Mr Otto Groha became forced by the court to return back to Prince Louis Ferdinand (1907-1994) a diamond diadem with 15 stones of 13,9 carat and about 2300 smaller brilliants. [I wonder if this is the Faberge or the Meader?]

Other jewels belonged to the Crown Princess which was mentioned in the articles are

* Pear shaped drop sapphire, she got from her husband (which she wore in her deLaszlo portrait)
* Famous Romanov emerald worth 300.000 swedish crowns (belonged to her mother)
* Small bow brooch of platinum and brilliants, also from her husband


Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 28, 2009, 09:23:38 AM
I heard that the ruby demi-parure was a gift from Kaiser Wilhelm to his daughter-in-law.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 28, 2009, 12:55:28 PM
Since the ruby parure belonged to the Prussian royal house, it would seem that the Kaiser would have to be the one to give it to Cecile.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 28, 2009, 01:07:51 PM
You say it belonged to Queen Elise of Prussia ? I thought she left her jewels to Vicky...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 28, 2009, 01:46:53 PM
Ursula's site said the ruby parure was part of Queen Elisabeth Ludovica of Prussia's collection. Vicky had died by the time Cecile married. Even if she had inherited all of the jewels of Queen Elisabeth, she still could've left them to the Kaiser (and thus keep them in the hands of the Prussian royal family) and the Kaiser could've bequeathed them on to the Crown Princess.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 28, 2009, 02:02:12 PM
Doubtful...First of all Queen Elise of Prussia willed her jewelry to Vicky so that they were not part of the offical "crown jewels" collection that was listed in the Lord Twining book. The only thing Vicky got when she became Empress were the orange pearls (that was also listed in the Twining book). When Empress Augusta died, she pass the jewels to Dona directly, much to the disgust of Vicky. Augusta also did not leave much jewels to Vicky's daughters (Mossy, Sossie and Moretta). When Sophie asked her mother for more jewels (in the book of letters "Empress Frederick writes to Sophie"), Vicky told her she will have to wait until she died to recieve any more. It is unlikely she will leave any jewels for William but to compensate his much poorer sisters. However it is possible that William bought the parure from his sisters for the imperial collection.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 28, 2009, 05:10:25 PM
I didn't say anything about them being 'crown jewels' so they wouldn't be listed in the Twining book. I said that if Vicky inherited ALL of Queen Elisabeth's jewels, she MAY have chosen to give these to Wilhelm. Regardless, Ursula is usually very well-researched so if she says they were QE's rubies, I'm inclined to believe her since there's no evidence to indicate otherwise.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 29, 2009, 09:30:11 AM
I did not say that they are not. The problem is that Vicky would be more than likely to provide for her own daughters than to give it to Wilhelm (who is much richer than her). I think most likely Wilhelm would have bought it from his sisters (either Moretta or Mossy) after they recieved it from their mother.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 06, 2009, 03:25:59 PM
What beautiful jewels! Do you know if the jewels of the last photo still exists?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 06, 2009, 03:39:16 PM
Many of the jewels were stolen by American officers when they occupied Feirdrichhoff. They were hidded behind a brick wall. Family silver was stolen as well.  Some were eventually recovered, but not all.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 06, 2009, 06:21:41 PM
I think those were Hesse jewels and not Hohenzollern jewels.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 06, 2009, 06:27:17 PM
You may very be correct, Eric, now that you mention it. If so, my mistake and I apologise  for mis-posting.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 06, 2009, 06:31:43 PM
No worries. I am sure Mossy got some Hohenzollern jewels from her mother Vicky and also from Queen Elise's collection. I wonder if Cecilie kept all her jewels in tact ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on October 06, 2009, 08:02:04 PM
You may very be correct, Eric, now that you mention it. If so, my mistake and I apologise  for mis-posting.

I wouldn't quite say it's a mistake, Robert. I don't have the articles in front of me, but weren't some of the jewels stolen Hohenzollern jewels that Margaret had inherited from her mother? I think Royalty Digest also had an article about  the jewel heist that gave more information on what was stolen and what ultimately became of much of the jewelry. I think that most of the jewels came into the Hesse family through Margaret and not Frederick Charles's own family. Does anyone remember the article or where it was from?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 07, 2009, 07:30:39 PM
Do you know if there are some jewels in museums? Several jewels of other royals are in museums,
but I don't know about Hohenzollern's jewels
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 08, 2009, 09:15:36 PM
2 items found in a simple Google search of  Hohenzollern jewels-
 one,  W.G. Burchette writes of a major theft by American soldiers of a chest of jewels from Prince Ferdinand, son of Hermine, second wife of the Kaiser in 1950.  These included not only his mother's jewels bur his sister and  the former CP Cecilie as well. Long soory.
 and another, unsourced except to say it is in "People's History"  in 1953  family jewels  were stolen from the Hohenzollern castle in Swabia.  The ceremonial home of the family.  Some of whom are buried there. No follow-up on recovery oin either story.
 
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 10, 2009, 10:20:26 AM
Well. Cecilie got nice jewels from her family of Meckenburg and from her mother Anastsia's fab collection. I believe Frederick William got some nice things from his mother Anna, who was also a Hohanzollern Princess.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: ashdean on October 11, 2009, 02:40:44 AM
Well. Cecilie got nice jewels from her family of Mecklenburg and from her mother Anastsia's fab collection. I believe Frederick William got some nice things from his mother Anna, who was also a Hohanzollern Princess.
Cecile still had jewelry at the time of her death ...including a very large emerald which had come from her greandmother Cecile of Baden Grand Duchess Mikhail via her mother and elder sister Alexandrine Queen of Denmark.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 11, 2009, 03:02:18 PM
I am sure her jewelry collection went to her children (there are many to share it). I wonder if they are all dispersed. We must not forget about Dona's collection too...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 11, 2009, 03:15:04 PM
Yes, with all those brides to gift, and not a few daughters I imagine. This is just a guess,  but I think  most of thse jewels wer sent to various places for safe keeping during  wars, especially the second, with all the horroble bombing. And the thievery, confiscations and looting as well after WW2
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2009, 01:16:21 PM
I think Cecilie's jewelry was safe and I think Dona escaped with hers to Doorn.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 12, 2009, 01:27:53 PM
Well, according to to what I have read, they were dispersed after her death, amongst the children and grand children. I think the Kaiser even gave a  few pieces to Hermine [?] However, I agree, Dona was not harassed in leaving Germany, was always treated with respect and left to her palace unharassed. How true this all is I have no real idea. I think she also brought a lot of the Kaiser's things with her.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2009, 01:30:17 PM
Indeed. If you go to Doorn, you will see how much she was able to take. Indeed, without Dona's will one cannot know how her jewels were divided. I think the larger pieces remain in the family. They can be seen in weddings.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 12, 2009, 01:50:14 PM
I hope to go to Doorn  next spring, as I will be in Amsterdam again.
 I did  buy a book on the Kaiser's orders and other medals, many of which were jeweled.  For some odd reason, they were brought back to  England  by a UK soldier, if I am correct, this was after WW2 and found in Germany. The family wanted to sell them,  not really caring about the provenance.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2009, 01:52:21 PM
Sad. I have been to Doorn myself. Well worth the visit. The house is filled with memoribelia of happier times.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on October 13, 2009, 03:35:22 PM
Some facts about Cecile's jewels courtesy of Ursula's fabulous jewelry site royalmagazin:

In the swedish magazine SVENSK DAMTIDNING, in the numbers of the spring 1956, some articles about the memories of Crown Princess Cecile of Germany (1886-1954) are on public.  The articles mention that the Crown Princess left her jewels to her chauffeur Mr Otto Groha.

She wrote her last wills on May 2nd 1952 and January 29th 1954. On October 21st 1955 a law court annulled her last will.

Mr Otto Groha became forced by the court to return back to Prince Louis Ferdinand (1907-1994) a diamond diadem with 15 stones of 13,9 carat and about 2300 smaller brilliants.

Other jewels belonged to the Crown Princess which was mentioned in the articles are

* Pear shaped drop sapphire, she got from her husband
* Famous Romanov emerald worth 300.000 swedish crowns (belonged to her mother)
* Small bow brooch of platinum and brilliants, also from her husband

She also mentioned in her will her Faberge tiara so she still had it at that point.

Other jewels:

Queen Louise's (mother of Kaiser Wilhelm I) diamond & aquamarine earrings were donated in 2006 to the Stiftung Preußische Schlösser und Gärten Berlin-Brandenburg (SPSG) by a private owner. They are now on display at castle Paretz, Queen Louise’s favourite castle. An inventory of Queen Luise’s jewellery done in 1810 recorded one necklace of brilliants and aquamarines, and a pair of girandole earrings with brilliants and Aquamarines, probably the same which are to be admired now in Paretz. Very little remains of the former jewel treasure of the Prussian kings. During the Napoleonic wars much was melted for the silver. By 1913, as can be documented, Queen Luise’s earrings were still among the possessions of the royal house. How they ended up at an auction house in Switzerland in 1993 is a mystery.

Queen Elizabeth of Prussia left much of her jewelry to Vicky. Angered, Queen Augusta bypassed Vicky and her daughters in her will and left most of her jewels to her daughter GDss Louise of Baden and her granddaughter, the future Queen Victoria of Sweden and some to Kaiser Wilhelm (who apparently didn't want a good deal of it) and less still to Henry.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 14, 2009, 04:13:58 PM
I thought Kaiserin Augusta left her jewels to Dona ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on October 14, 2009, 05:57:42 PM
Not according to Vicky in a letter to Queen Victoria. Willy, and thus I suppose Dona, were left some items but the bulk seems to have gone to Louise and Victoria Sweden.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 14, 2009, 07:58:39 PM
I think Dona had the bulk of the state jewels and some private jewels from Augusta (who seemed to like Willy & Dona).
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 07, 2009, 02:39:59 PM
i suspect Dona was pleased enough to have the jewels William gave her and the use of the beau sancy diamond, removed from the hohenzollern crown, and made into a pendant with 22 other diamonds. At the time, the beau sancy was the second largest perfectly clear diamond in the world.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 08, 2009, 08:00:06 PM
Indeed. Although it seems that Dona did not like the artistic jewellery (Gothic Revial pieces) that Vicky loved.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on January 14, 2010, 08:51:38 AM
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2739/imagen30011.jpg)

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6617/imagen30021.jpg)

What do you know about this tiara?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 14, 2010, 04:08:14 PM
may some semi-precious stone, I think. Willy designed many items for Dona.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 14, 2010, 04:21:15 PM
It is in the garland style, very much the style of the later jewelry of Queen Alexandra. The tiara reminded  one of victory lauels.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 14, 2010, 10:22:17 PM
Is this part of her aquamarine set? Danjel's site used to contain information on dozens of royal tiaras but it is sadly closed now. I don't know if I saved any of the information he had--I believe he had talked of this tiara though.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/GERM20Augusta1.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2010, 11:29:54 AM
Yes. Although I do not think the tiara has arquamarines in it. I should know since it is my favourite stone. Ena & QE II has the best parures.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 15, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
This was not one designed by William.

it also has similarities to VL's favorite.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2010, 05:02:10 PM
Yes. Although I do not think the tiara has arquamarines in it. I should know since it is my favourite stone. Ena & QE II has the best parures.

Well, that doesn't mean that Dona didn't own one. : )  She did, as a matter of fact, own an aquamarine parurue--that's a I known fact. I'm just not sure if the dangling stones shown in this photo are them. I seem to remember from the old discussions, including some archived on the Forum, that this was, indeed, her aquamarine tiara.

HK--no, I don't think this is one designed by Wilhelm. He designed at least 2--both with floral motifs. On an old thread we discussed some tiaras:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=533.30
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 16, 2010, 11:31:24 AM
Well. I did look at the forum and it does not say that this tiara was the arquamarine one. I am of course not saying that she does not have one.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 16, 2010, 03:34:35 PM
Your comment made it seem that you would know because you like aquamarines. That's not very substantive proof one way or the other. I was drawing on information from Danjel's defunct site which was taken from various books such as Geoffrey Munn's on tiaras. I believe this tiara shown was the aquamarine one referenced. The poster also posted on a royal jewels forum and they indicated that they believed it to be the aquamarine one as well.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 16, 2010, 04:33:41 PM
Yes but I know Geoff Munn personally. Still visit Watski's when I go to London. Indeed Aquarmarines are my favourite stones. Too bad there is no colour photo on that piece.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 16, 2010, 05:25:08 PM
I have to confess I don't know what knowing Mr Munn personally has to do with this tiara. I can't claim a personal relationship with Mr Munn myself, though I have corresponded with him on some questions regarding jewelry after reading his fabulous book. He always answered my questions, the last one about QV's emerald tiara, and I found him a delightful, thoughtful gentleman.

As a lover of aquamarines, make sure to check out the pictures I posted on the Paley thread.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 16, 2010, 07:13:22 PM
Indeed he was a gentleman of the first order.  :)

Anyway I wonder what happen to this tiara. It was not seen after the abdication and her death. Hermine did not seem to have pocession of it nor Cecilie. That seem to be a mystery.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 16, 2010, 11:51:41 PM
On Danjel's old site there was a lot of 'whereabout unknown' for many Prussian jewels. While the Hohenzollerns were luckier than some in what they were able to recoup after the revolution, I'm sure there was a lot that just vanished.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 18, 2010, 06:48:41 PM


HK--no, I don't think this is one designed by Wilhelm. He designed at least 2--both with floral motifs. On an old thread we discussed some tiaras:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=533.30

right. The floral motifs appear, to me, to be non traditional and at first site, a bit amateurish. However, upon closer inspection, they are quite lovely. what makes them most appealing is that they were designed by Wilhelm.

did any other monarch of the era design his wife's jewelry? Albert?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2010, 06:50:43 PM
Yes. Prince Albert did design jewelry for his wife and daughter Alice.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 18, 2010, 09:35:31 PM


HK--no, I don't think this is one designed by Wilhelm. He designed at least 2--both with floral motifs. On an old thread we discussed some tiaras:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=533.30

right. The floral motifs appear, to me, to be non traditional and at first site, a bit amateurish. However, upon closer inspection, they are quite lovely. what makes them most appealing is that they were designed by Wilhelm.

did any other monarch of the era design his wife's jewelry? Albert?

Albert is one of the few that I can think of. Others have been involved in gifts for their wives but I don't know enough about royal jewelry as a whole to know how far they actually went in designing pieces. I still don't particularly care for Wilhelm's pieces. I think they weren't particularly suited to Dona's apparent tastes or what flattered her. However, as devoted as she was I'm sure anything Wilhelm designed would've gone over well with her!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2010, 10:52:24 PM
Yes. Bismark called her "the cow from Holstein". Of course she would submit to his wishes, especially it was done for her.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 19, 2010, 08:46:06 AM
Right, Eric, you've made that point about a thousand times. Give it a rest, please. Dona was hardly a cow, appeared as elegant and regal as any of her contemporaries, and had as much or more public adoration as any of her contemporaries. Bismarck's classless and tasteless side comments are not the last word of historical fact.

That said, why wouldn't Dona graciously accept and wear jewelry designed by her husband? Which consort rebuffed and stood in defiance of her husband's wishes the way you appear to have expected Dona to do? Both Alexandra's certainly did not; Mary did not; nor Minnie. Vicky probably would have, but had no cause.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marc on January 19, 2010, 09:22:08 AM
Yes. Bismark called her "the cow from Holstein". Of course she would submit to his wishes, especially it was done for her.

I think I have read somewhere that Bismarck said before Wlhelm's marriage that he needs a "cow from Holstein",maybe due to Schleswig-Holstein question...I never read that he called Augusta in particular like that...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 19, 2010, 10:46:48 AM
Hi,

Yes, I agree with HerrKaiser that the Empress deserves some respect from us.
She always looks quite regal and dignified;  and I think she is attractive.  Unfortunately, she developed greay or white hair earlier than normal and looked older than her years;  and would appear larger than the norm, I guess, but never looked like "a cow"...

Some respect needs to be observed for her - The Empress of Germany...

Larry
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 19, 2010, 12:29:25 PM
That said, why wouldn't Dona graciously accept and wear jewelry designed by her husband? Which consort rebuffed and stood in defiance of her husband's wishes the way you appear to have expected Dona to do? Both Alexandra's certainly did not; Mary did not; nor Minnie. Vicky probably would have, but had no cause.

I would disagree about Vicky--she was as besotted with her husband as any royal wife was. I would have to think she would've loved something designed by Fritz!

Dona's bearing is part of why I don't think Wilhelm's designs suited her. She did have a solidity of figure, a regal bearing and that large hairdo. I think she could've handled more substantial designs ala the Poltimore tiara.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 19, 2010, 06:04:20 PM
The fact is that Dona was submissive to the wishes of Wilhelm period. Even if the tiara was made of straw, Dona would still wear it gratefully. It would be unthinkable if she would have exclaimed that it was ugly and it did not suit her. In fact Vicky critizied Dona that her cow-like devotion to Wilhelm that made her son even more harder to bear.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 19, 2010, 09:18:38 PM
That said, why wouldn't Dona graciously accept and wear jewelry designed by her husband? Which consort rebuffed and stood in defiance of her husband's wishes the way you appear to have expected Dona to do? Both Alexandra's certainly did not; Mary did not; nor Minnie. Vicky probably would have, but had no cause.

I would disagree about Vicky--she was as besotted with her husband as any royal wife was. I would have to think she would've loved something designed by Fritz!


Yes, I think Vicky would have loved Fritz-designed pieces.

I meant that she, of all the royal wives, may have had will or determination to not "submit to (her husband's) wishes" as Eric complains of Dona, but of course vicky had never any cause to reject Fritz...only wish for more of his time and ultimately his life.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on January 19, 2010, 09:49:49 PM
So true, HK. I could see Vicky standing over Fritz critiquing with her artist's eye though. ; )
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 20, 2010, 06:34:13 PM
Yes. Vicky chose her things with an artistic eye. Some of her early jewels were of Gothic design of the period.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on February 08, 2010, 10:29:18 AM
(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/2310/3816931119737f8f0ddd.jpg)


(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/359/2892489130c87cdd35f2.jpg)

Do you know if these two tiaras are the same? Both by Fabergé...

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9575/cecilieprussia.jpg)


(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3497/coverstory0604200213091.gif)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 08, 2010, 01:57:21 PM
Don't think they are the same, but they looked very similar in style though.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on February 08, 2010, 02:43:54 PM
One is the Meander Tiara (which has a Greek key design on the top and bottom) the other is her Faberge Tiara. The former was presented to Cecile on her wedding day by Crown Prince Wilhelm and was worn by Grand Duchess Kira at her wedding.The Faberge was received as a wedding gift from her russian relatives, thus the kokoshnik design. She wrote in her last will about a diamond diadem with 15 stones of 13,9 carat and about 2300 smaller brilliants. That could be this one. Her daughter Cecile wore it at her wedding.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 08, 2010, 03:33:36 PM
Yes. Cecilie did wore that tiara on her wedding day.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on February 09, 2010, 12:29:28 AM
Some of Dona's pieces:

diamond tiara set with aquamarines

tiara of brilliants and emeralds

a 'small' diamond tiara consisting of a diamond base with 7 diamond flowers with each flower is also topped with a diamond

tiara of diamonds and pearls

a diamond tiara with 4 large and 8 small trefoils with a base consisting of a wreath of acorns and oak leaves, centering on a crowned and winged crest of the German Imperial Family. Wilhelm II designed this tiara and it was a gift for their silver wedding anniversary in 1906

emerald & diamond tiara from the first quarter of the 19th century. It is designed as a graduated bandeau of triple laurel leaves, highlighted with 13 larger millegrain-set round daimonds simulating buds, interspaced with five pairs of diamond-capped pear-shaped cabochon emeralds, one irreglarly vaceted, mounted in silver and gold. It is probably of Russian origing, dating from the first quarter of the 19th century an arrived through descent in the House of Prussia rowerds the end of the century. Dona received this tiara from Wilhelm at the time of their anniversary in 1906 and it was eventually inherited by Victoria Louise. It was sold in 1974.

Dona also had many gorgeous sets of pearls which she often wore in long, looped strands.



Hello! Do you have photos of these tiaras? I can't see the pics that you posted :(

Do you know where are the Crown Jewels of Prussia and Germany (crowns...)?

Regards and thanks!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on February 09, 2010, 12:30:27 AM
One is the Meander Tiara (which has a Greek key design on the top and bottom) the other is her Faberge Tiara. The former was presented to Cecile on her wedding day by Crown Prince Wilhelm and was worn by Grand Duchess Kira at her wedding.The Faberge was received as a wedding gift from her russian relatives, thus the kokoshnik design. She wrote in her last will about a diamond diadem with 15 stones of 13,9 carat and about 2300 smaller brilliants. That could be this one. Her daughter Cecile wore it at her wedding.


Do you know who gave the Greek tiara to Ceclie?

Where are nowadays these tiaras?

Regards and thanks!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on February 09, 2010, 12:54:54 AM
Do you know where are the Crown Jewels of Prussia and Germany (crowns...)?

Modern model of the original appearance of the diamond-studded crown of King Friedrich I of Prussia, today exhibited in Charlottenburg Palace in Berlin:
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/Pryssen-FriedrichIskrone.jpg)

The Prussian Crown Jewels: The crown (as it looks today: a gold frame devoid of diamonds), orb and sceptre, exhibited in Charlottenburg Palace in Berlin:
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/Pryssen-FriedrichIskroneidagm.jpg)
According to Lucien's great link (http://www.spsg.de/index.php?id=6667) they are evidently "on tour" at Oranienburg Castle outside Berlin until mid-June this year.

Wilhelm II's never-worn "Hohenzollern House Crown", today exhibited at Hohenzollern castle in Baden-Württemberg:
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/Pryssen-WilhelmIIsHohenzollernkrone.jpg)....(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/Hohenzollernkrone.jpg)

The German Empire never had actual imperial regalia, although a heraldic crown was designed:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Deutsches_Reich_-_Kaiserkrone_%281889%29.png/180px-Deutsches_Reich_-_Kaiserkrone_%281889%29.png)

The ancient regalia of the Holy Roman Empire are exhibited in the Treasury of the Hofburg palace in Vienna.

Regarding earlier posts about Hohenzollern jewels which disappeared after WW2:
I seem to remember reading that Wilhelm I also had a crown made for his coronation as King of Prussia and that this crown was stored in a salt mine in the Prussian province of Saxony (modern Saxe-Anhalt) during the war. It disappeared.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on February 09, 2010, 05:57:39 AM
The German Wikipedia really has a very good illustrated article about the Prussian Crown Jewels, which easily can be translated with Google Translate: Wikipedia: Preußische Kronjuwelen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preu%C3%9Fische_Kronjuwelen).
More pictures here: Wikimedia Commons: Prussian Crown Jewels (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Prussian_Crown_Jewels?uselang=de)

As can be seen there seems to be differing opinions about (and models of) exactly how diamond-studded the crown of Friedrich I was, but a contemporary account from the Prussian Master of Ceremonies Johann von Besser (http://www.preussenchronik.de/begriff_jsp/key=begriff_krone.html) tells that the frame was totally covered so that it appeared to be made of diamonds, not gold.

Correction of the WW2 disapperance story: The Prussian Crown Jewels were taken from the then Hohenzollern Museum in the Monbijou Palace in Berlin to Königsberg for safekeeping, then to a mine in Thuringia. From there the Americans brought them to Hesse (Friedrichshof?) before they were returned to the family and/or state. Somewhere along the way the Crowns of Wilhelm I and Augusta went missing along with the cheap nickel silver models of crowns for the German Emperor and Empress and the Prussian Nuptial Crown. The Hohenzollern Crown of Wilhelm II was found in the wall of a Westphalian village church!

I can't see whether the arched and unarched Electoral Caps of the Electorate of Brandenburg seen on the pre-WW2 photos have survived, but the arched one probably looked a lot like the Austrian Archducal Cap to the left and the unarched certainly looked like the Saxonian Electoral Cap to the left:

(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/sterrike-sterrikeserkehertugshatt.jpg)........(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/Sachsenskurhatt.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 09, 2010, 10:10:40 AM
Great review Roerik! It looks like WII modeled his crown after that of Frederich I.

I think the Prussia sense of scale when it came to regalia was much more reasonable and becoming than most houses.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on February 09, 2010, 11:43:43 AM
I think the Prussia sense of scale when it came to regalia was much more reasonable and becoming than most houses.
The old Prussian maxime: Mehr sein als Schein...... (Though I guess covering a "simple" golden crown with diamonds is the direct opposite of "being, rather than appearing"!)
It's interesting that the Prussian love for black (Order of the Black Eagle etc.) is expressed in the unusual dark colour of the orb.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 09, 2010, 01:23:52 PM
Thanks for the info on the crowns. fasinating ! BTW I think Cecilie's wedding photo with the tiarahas been posted before. I think at the Louis Ferdinand page.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on February 09, 2010, 03:04:37 PM
Some of Dona's pieces:

diamond tiara set with aquamarines

tiara of brilliants and emeralds

a 'small' diamond tiara consisting of a diamond base with 7 diamond flowers with each flower is also topped with a diamond

tiara of diamonds and pearls

a diamond tiara with 4 large and 8 small trefoils with a base consisting of a wreath of acorns and oak leaves, centering on a crowned and winged crest of the German Imperial Family. Wilhelm II designed this tiara and it was a gift for their silver wedding anniversary in 1906

emerald & diamond tiara from the first quarter of the 19th century. It is designed as a graduated bandeau of triple laurel leaves, highlighted with 13 larger millegrain-set round daimonds simulating buds, interspaced with five pairs of diamond-capped pear-shaped cabochon emeralds, one irreglarly vaceted, mounted in silver and gold. It is probably of Russian origing, dating from the first quarter of the 19th century an arrived through descent in the House of Prussia rowerds the end of the century. Dona received this tiara from Wilhelm at the time of their anniversary in 1906 and it was eventually inherited by Victoria Louise. It was sold in 1974.

Dona also had many gorgeous sets of pearls which she often wore in long, looped strands.



Hello! Do you have photos of these tiaras? I can't see the pics that you posted :(

Do you know where are the Crown Jewels of Prussia and Germany (crowns...)?

Regards and thanks!

I can try to find them and bring them back--they  must have expired.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 09, 2010, 06:21:08 PM
Yes. Thanks. The photo also belong here in this thread.  :)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on February 10, 2010, 08:42:32 AM
I didn't know the thread existed when I posted. It was created the same day I posted, about 10 minutes apart, I believe because of the jewels discussion that had spun off. I was probably in the midst of posting when Herr Kaiser created it.  :)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 10, 2010, 09:34:50 AM
Yes. I think it is also illustrated in Marlene's book, but I won't suggest anyone post it here from her source.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on February 10, 2010, 11:11:46 AM
Victoria Augusta:

Victoria Augusta:

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9799/438pxbundesarchivbild10.jpg)

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7141/1763469.jpg)

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9605/45436o.jpg)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1728/1763766.jpg)

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/834/2181371.jpg)

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/557/2137417.jpg)

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2739/imagen30011.jpg)

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6617/imagen30021.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 10, 2010, 01:57:25 PM
Victoria Augusta:

Victoria Augusta:

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9799/438pxbundesarchivbild10.jpg (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9799/438pxbundesarchivbild10.jpg)


this is one William designed and had made for Dona. She wears it well. Much nicer looking when worn farther back on her head so the florals do not compete with her face and other jewelry.

thanks for re posting these Alejandro Spain!!!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 10, 2010, 01:59:52 PM
I think it looked lovely on Dona. Who said it was ugly ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on February 10, 2010, 04:58:33 PM
I think the opposite for the reasons I'd listed before. I think her large hairdo needed a heavier, more majestic tiara. This one seemed to dainty for her physical stature. Love her necklace & brooch though--anyone know the stones?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Vecchiolarry on February 10, 2010, 08:47:49 PM
Hi,

I agree with Ella.
This tiara, to me, looks like something made for a Grade 6 school play - made of tin...
She needs a heavier, more substantial tiara...

BTW, I have always thought The Empress looked very impressive and carried herself well.
In a couple of pictures, she looks like a nice, kind old grannie;  bt I don't suppose you could run up and sit on her lap!!

Larry
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Margot on February 10, 2010, 09:43:00 PM
I agree with Larry and Ella.....the tiara is just not right with that bouffant pompadour like hair do! If the Kaiser wanted a diadem that looked vaguely like a mediaeval crown which is what his effort at design looks like to me he could have used the wonderful Hesse Darmstadt Tiara which Cecilie wore in that wonderful picture numbered Plate 238 in Mr Munn's magnus opus drool worthily delicious 'Tiaras A history of Splendour.' as a template! That necklace is rather lovely isn't it......very pretty!

Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 11, 2010, 04:50:34 PM
Appearances are indeed subjective! I did not say the tiara Dona is wearing is lovely; I did say its style is better worn toward the back of her head rather than farther front to contrast with her jewelry.

her hair style did not change much for over 20 years. Fashion was clearly getting more contemporary, and I think a more heavy, 19th century tiara was not the look William was going for. He was clearly seeking a lighter, friendlier, more natural piece that was, in fact, less oppulent and more fun.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 11, 2010, 05:57:20 PM
I wonder who else worn that piece ? It is very medievel as they say.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on February 12, 2010, 03:18:27 PM
Do you know the e-mail of Danjel, the creator of the marvelous web about royal jewelry?

Regards and thanks!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 12, 2010, 07:46:17 PM
I think that was closed down ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 12, 2010, 08:02:39 PM
I wonder who else worn that piece ? It is very medievel as they say.

What is medieval about the floral design?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 12, 2010, 08:31:46 PM
Looks like crowns done at that period.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on February 13, 2010, 03:33:07 AM
I think that was closed down ?

Yes, Danjel's website was closed, but maybe someone has his e-mail... ;)

Some photos of Dona's crown (from Spanish forum "Foro Dinatías"):

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4710/weddingswedenhohenzolle.jpg)

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4710/weddingswedenhohenzolle.jpg)

(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5861/2kerkelijksigmaringen6d.jpg)

Regards and thanks!
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Alejandro Spain on February 13, 2010, 08:43:47 AM
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9210/2577787292f81e730870o.jpg)

Sapphires:

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5865/2949351498fd24fcb9c5o.jpg)

Princess Irene:

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2507/39890300237dc80590bbo.jpg)

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2349/39890298672fb6555081o.jpg)

Victoria Alexandra:

(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1769/3512571588b73fef598eo.jpg)

Victoria of Prussia:

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/282/3197276062e2780e9c1eo.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on February 13, 2010, 09:14:27 PM
I think that was closed down ?

Yes, Danjel's website was closed, but maybe someone has his e-mail... ;)


Regards and thanks!

I don't have his e-mail but he posts on this forum so you could send him a PM. He last pasted in November so I don't know how frequently he checks it though.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 14, 2010, 02:59:45 PM
Will She reopen her site ? We all learned a lot from her researches.  :(
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on February 14, 2010, 06:40:41 PM
I doubt it. I believe part of the reason it was shut down was copyright violation complaints.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 26, 2010, 02:24:40 PM


Victoria Augusta:

 http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9799/438pxbundesarchivbild10.jpg  

 

The actual Tiara

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/812/prusiatiaradiamantestrex.jpg)

Kyra Kyrillovna wearing it

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3115/3165178790_544de4ee41_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 26, 2010, 02:51:11 PM
Kyra wears it nicely on the back of her head. The tiara must still be property of the House of Hohenzollern. Has it been seen in use more recently?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 26, 2010, 03:19:10 PM
Should be still in the family.  ;)
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 26, 2010, 04:57:51 PM
This tiara was redesigned over the years. The image above is very simple, but the images seveal posts back of the current wearer shows a much taller version.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 09, 2010, 05:22:00 PM
The stolen jewels of the hesse Kassel displayed in washington. 1946

(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6303/hjhjghjghj.jpg) (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/hjhjghjghj.jpg/)

Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2010, 01:01:14 PM
Don't think they were Hohenzollern jewels but Hesse Kassel jewels that belonged to a former Princess of Prussia (Mossy).
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: grandduchessella on December 10, 2010, 01:13:07 PM
But didn't they originate with Margaret's mother and grandmother? Either way, we do have a thread dealing with the Hesse-Kassel jewels and their theft.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1117.0

Also a lot of good info & photos in Margaret's thread. The photo posted by KF is part of an article Life magazine did (or the same image was at least included) which had a number of photos on the case.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 10, 2010, 04:19:32 PM
 posted it here since the hesse cassel family is discussed here at the hohenzollern section,
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2010, 05:12:59 PM
How much Mossy got from the Hohenzollern family got in terms of jewels I wonder ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 10, 2010, 05:55:39 PM
How much Mossy got from the Hohenzollern family got in terms of jewels I wonder ?

Not much at all. WII, in spite of all good intensions, did not like Mossy's closer relationship to his mother.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
I think Willy gave Moretta a diamond tiara and other people like Irene & Heinrich gave jewelry too (not to mention Vicky). I think Mossy must have at least recieve some jewelry from her brothers and Vicky too...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: ashdean on December 25, 2011, 09:57:51 AM
I think Willy gave Moretta a diamond tiara and other people like Irene & Heinrich gave jewelry too (not to mention Vicky). I think Mossy must have at least recieve some jewelry from her brothers and Vicky too...
Margaret did receive jewels from her family AND Her mother had plenty to distribute as she had inherited the personal gems of her husbands aunt the last Queen of Prussia.Indeed when Victoria married Adolf of S-L she gave her a tiara and complete suite of diamonds,sapphires and pearls.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 26, 2011, 09:55:42 AM
Didn't know how much Vicky received from Queen Elise, since she also left plenty to her own sister Duchess Ludovika (yes ! Mother of Sisi !). Also because of that Empress Augusta left Vicky nothing in her will and her jewels went directly to Dona. Vicky was deeply hurt as none of her daughters received as much as a ring from the vicious grandmother's legacy (she wrote about that to her mother). From the letters to Sophie, Vicky also wrote that she had not many jewels left and said she might had to wait for her to die to inherit more from her.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marc on February 29, 2012, 09:43:53 AM
Unfortunately:

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120228-41029.html

Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 29, 2012, 10:44:51 AM
It is sad to see such a treasure leaves the family. It is such a national treasure with rich history that I hope some government buys it and put it on display in a museum than some Russian millionaire or Arab sheik who would put it in a vault and hidden...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Marc on February 29, 2012, 01:06:38 PM
It is said that Georg Friedrich has to sell it...Why?We don't know...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 29, 2012, 01:49:32 PM
Maybe the Hohenzollern Fund is running low ? Never did know how much or how it is being run. This is a real mystery.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on February 29, 2012, 03:29:00 PM
It is sad to see such a treasure leaves the family. It is such a national treasure with rich history that I hope some government buys it and put it on display in a museum than some Russian millionaire or Arab sheik who would put it in a vault and hidden...

  Regardless of where it goes, it can never be separated from its remarkable history.  Indeed, "Diamonds Are Forever."      AP.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 29, 2012, 04:30:02 PM
Yes...but it could be broken up and disappear from history. Just like Marie Antoinette's famous necklace, which she never worn...
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 22, 2012, 01:09:37 AM
The Beau Sancy sold last month for nearly $10million, five times more than the pre-auction estimates suggested it would sell for. Georg Friederich must be happy.

The press coverage was most dissapointing, however, in that the histories of the gem fully understated its ownership by the Hohenzollern in spite of the fact that they possessed it for over 75% of its life to date. Most articles never even referred to the name "Kaiser Wilhelm" or "Empress Augusta" who wore the diamond most notably at the last great royal occasion--VL's wedding.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 22, 2012, 08:45:15 AM
I do wonder how the family smuggle the jewelry away during the revolution and 2 wars ?

Yes I also wonder who bought it ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 23, 2012, 12:46:18 PM
The family saved the diamond from more than just the 20th century problems. They had to keep it safe from Napoleon and others as well.

No report as of yet who purchased it, but I am sure WII is turning over in his grave.

Dona wore it beautifully.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 23, 2012, 03:51:31 PM
I am not sure if Vicky ever wore it ?
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 25, 2012, 01:07:14 AM
As Vicky was Kaiserin for only a mere 99 days while she was fully immersed in tending to her dying husband, I doubt she had any time or interest in the jewels and wealth she had access to for the moment.

She only held one reception of state dignitaries after ascending the throne. It was at Charlottenburg Palace and it was her only bittersweet moment of being  "above" Bismarck and the others who often made her (and Fritz') life difficult. And I do not believe she would have worn the diamond on this occasion. Sad.
Title: Re: Hohenzollern Jewels
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 25, 2012, 01:21:34 AM
I believe Augusta held on to the diamond long enough to pass it on to Dona. Vicky may never have worn it...