Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: nena on August 02, 2008, 09:13:50 AM

Title: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on August 02, 2008, 09:13:50 AM
Oftenly here we are not 100% sure when some pics. of Imperial Family were taken...No speaking about months.

On their pics. they sometimes labeled months or date when the photo was taken.

Here is thread where we can post photos for request for months.--tell us what books say, or your personal oppinions, based on your knowledge. It's smiliar one as Looking for help with Picture(s) and/or Captions (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2222.0). But here we are going to disccus about years and monts. Right?

For example, this photo:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/th_najboljaslika1913.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/najboljaslika1913.jpg)

We know it was taken in 1913, probably at Livadia. But which month? I meant--when IF visited Livadia in 1913?

Let's see.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on August 11, 2008, 05:56:34 PM
I find this picture interesting for ask in which month was it taken?:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_ZbuneokooveslikeposlednjailineTobol.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/ZbuneokooveslikeposlednjailineTobol.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: LisaDavidson on August 18, 2008, 03:48:07 PM
It is difficult to pinpoint exact months because of the different reckonings of dates in Imperial Russia versus the rest of Europe.

The formal portrait of the Imperial Family was actually taken in Odessa, not Livadia, and to my understanding, during the Romanov 300th anniversary year of 1913. I don't know when it was taken, but it seems logical that the family would have visited Odessa while in the Crimea at Livadia simply because that's how people traveled at that time. Visits to the Crimea tended to be in the fall, so the best I can conjecture is that photo #1 was probably taken during the fall of 1913 in Odessa.

The candid photograph of Alexei was taken at Tobolsk after the departure of his parents and one sister for Ekaterinburg in April 1918. I believe the family was reunited about one month later. So this photo would have been taken no earlier than April and no later than May 1918.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on August 18, 2008, 07:13:25 PM
Lisa, I understand, and thank you very much----but IF sometimes they labeled dates of taking photos.

But, with help of diary entries, for example, we can know in which month one picture was taken. Allright?

I didn't know photos Formal photos of IF in 1913 were taken in Odessa. Also, I believe that one of Tsartevich was taken in April of 1918.
I wanted to ask about this one?:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_Toboljsk_1917_1918.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Toboljsk_1917_1918.jpg)

It is in Tobolsk, on roof. But, on some sites, it's labeled April 1918, last photo of Tsar II with children, I highly doubt, I gess it was taken in 1917, in autumn, ca. september-october? Anyone else's opinions?
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: LisaDavidson on August 19, 2008, 01:32:08 PM
Lisa, I understand, and thank you very much----but IF sometimes they labeled dates of taking photos.

But, with help of diary entries, for example, we can know in which month one picture was taken. Allright?

I didn't know photos Formal photos of IF in 1913 were taken in Odessa. Also, I believe that one of Tsartevich was taken in April of 1918.
I wanted to ask about this one?:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_Toboljsk_1917_1918.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Toboljsk_1917_1918.jpg)

It is in Tobolsk, on roof. But, on some sites, it's labeled April 1918, last photo of Tsar II with children, I highly doubt, I gess it was taken in 1917, in autumn, ca. september-october? Anyone else's opinions?

This is a very strange photograph. I have a large print of it, and in looking closely, while there is a resemblance to the IF, the individuals don't look (to me) like the family. But, yes, I agree, it was more likely to have been taken in the Spring of 1917 at Tsarskoe Selo. Yet, I too have seen it labeled as Tobolsk. The thing is, many of the photos taken at Tobolsk did not get developed, whereas those taken at Ts were developed and printed.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: halen on August 19, 2008, 01:39:34 PM
Lisa, I understand, and thank you very much----but IF sometimes they labeled dates of taking photos.

But, with help of diary entries, for example, we can know in which month one picture was taken. Allright?

I didn't know photos Formal photos of IF in 1913 were taken in Odessa. Also, I believe that one of Tsartevich was taken in April of 1918.
I wanted to ask about this one?:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_Toboljsk_1917_1918.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Toboljsk_1917_1918.jpg)

It is in Tobolsk, on roof. But, on some sites, it's labeled April 1918, last photo of Tsar II with children, I highly doubt, I gess it was taken in 1917, in autumn, ca. september-october? Anyone else's opinions?

This is a very strange photograph. I have a large print of it, and in looking closely, while there is a resemblance to the IF, the individuals don't look (to me) like the family. But, yes, I agree, it was more likely to have been taken in the Spring of 1917 at Tsarskoe Selo. Yet, I too have seen it labeled as Tobolsk. The thing is, many of the photos taken at Tobolsk did not get developed, whereas those taken at Ts were developed and printed.

Holy jumping. And to think we believed this picture was taken at Tobolsk. The new things you learn every day.

Lisa, would you know where at Tsarskoe Selo this picture was taken? If the many pictures taken at Tobolsk did not get developed, are they now in the archives, or was the film destroyed?

Thanks,

Louise
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on August 20, 2008, 10:37:09 AM
Tsarskoe Selo?  :o  :o What about that fence? I know Mr. Giliard toke that photo.(Also there is one picture taken at same time, only Tatiana is standing).

You are right - many photos from Tobolsk weren't developed, or destroyed.

Halen - I so hope they are still somewhere in archives, but when Whites came to Ekaterinburg, they found some rolls of movies/pictures films, of course, destroyed. You can see it on AP - Ekaterinburg Items List.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: tom_romanov on August 20, 2008, 11:06:36 AM
is this the same roof?

"http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/tom_romanov/img144.jpg"
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on August 20, 2008, 01:29:22 PM
I don't know. But, look at this (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/4f2b2e79.jpg) one. Same day as one I posted, I think.
Also, we can see GDs wore same clothes, and in front o Governor's House at Tobolsk.
So, for me last one at exile was taken at Tobolsk. I guess late 1917, before winter. Also, as I have mentioned, some sites says spring of 1918.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: tom_romanov on August 20, 2008, 01:57:05 PM
I don't know. But, look at this (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/4f2b2e79.jpg) one. Same day as one I posted, I think.
Also, we can see GDs wore same clothes, and in front o Governor's House at Tobolsk.
So, for me last one at exile was taken at Tobolsk. I guess late 1917, before winter. Also, as I have mentioned, some sites says spring of 1918.

it must be the same day because,like you said nena they are wearing the same clothes. i too think Autumn/winter 1917 because of the hats and scarves. so it's got to be Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Michael HR on August 20, 2008, 03:06:32 PM
I am sure when I once saw a photo of the Governors house you could see where this photo was taken and have always thought Tobolsk and not Tsarkoe Selo.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on October 25, 2008, 07:58:41 PM
By the way, I disovered this one was taken on July 10th 1916:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/th_nikolajmarijatatjanaalehi5.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/?action=view&current=nikolajmarijatatjanaalehi5.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on October 25, 2008, 08:22:26 PM
For example, this photo:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/th_najboljaslika1913.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/najboljaslika1913.jpg)

We know it was taken in 1913, probably at Livadia. But which month? I meant--when IF visited Livadia in 1913?

I'm quite sure I ran across a mention of this photo-session in Olga's 1913 diary, but I'm having trouble finding it now. If I recall correctly, the pictures were taken at Tsarskoe Selo, possibly in late spring or early summer. I'll keep hunting for the exact date...
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Rodney_G. on November 04, 2008, 02:32:23 PM
That photo of the six of the IF seated on a greenhouse roof is from Tobolsk. I would say late fall, 1917, judging by their clothes. It's not from 1918; the weather hadn't improved that much before they left in late April, and in any case I doubt the new commandant was as lenient as the earlier one (Pankratov?) I believe I read somewhere that Nicholas helped to build the wooden structure that they sat on and/or the stairlike structure that led up to it (see TOM's link).
Interestingly, as Lisa noted , it's hard to tell who is who. Two of the GDs seem identifiable but the other two could be either of the two others.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on November 04, 2008, 02:48:30 PM
Thanks, Sarushka! I really would love to know when 1913 photo season were taken.

Quote
Seated, left to right: Olga, Anastasia, NII, Aleksei, Tatiana. Maria stands behind.
I agree. How Tatiana was thin, I confused she with Maria first time I saw that picture.

I agree with you, Rodney_G. It is more likely taken in 1917, but it is often labeled as 'April' of 1918, as their last together photo without Alexandra.
Here put all pics. you know in which month that have been taken.

Anastasia signed her photo of 1914 Formal season to be taken in May of 1914, while IF were at Livadia:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Anastasija/th_Anyamaj1914.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Anastasija/?action=view&current=Anyamaj1914.jpg)

There is note this one have been taken in middle of august in 1916, near Dnieper River, at Mogilev:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/Aleksej_Stavka/th_AleksejbracaMakarovDzojsredinaavgus.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/Aleksej_Stavka/?action=view&current=AleksejbracaMakarovDzojsredinaavgus.jpg)
That summer.....I love these pics taken near that River in 1916.  :D
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on November 04, 2008, 03:03:13 PM
That photo of the six of the IF seated on a greenhouse roof is from Tobolsk. I would say late fall, 1917, judging by their clothes. It's not from 1918; the weather hadn't improved that much before they left in late April, and in any case I doubt the new commandant was as lenient as the earlier one (Pankratov?) I believe I read somewhere that Nicholas helped to build the wooden structure that they sat on and/or the stairlike structure that led up to it (see TOM's link).

Pankratov was in power at least until 6/19 February 1918, possibly longer. (That was the date the second regiment demanded his resignation, but I'm not sure when Pankratov actually left.) Other photos of NOTMAA on the greenhouse roof also show snow on the ground, but I suppose that's not much help in Siberia....

I'll check Nicholas's diary for further clues.


Quote
Interestingly, as Lisa noted , it's hard to tell who is who. Two of the GDs seem identifiable but the other two could be either of the two others.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tobolskroof-1.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tobolskroof-1.jpg)
Left to right: Olga, NII, Aleksei, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia.


This closeup, likely from the same day, makes it easier to see who's who:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tobolskroofcloseup.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tobolskroofcloseup.jpg)
Seated, left to right: Olga, Anastasia, NII, Aleksei, Tatiana. Maria stands behind.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on November 04, 2008, 03:19:05 PM
Anastasia signed her photo of 1914 Formal season to be taken in May of 1914, while IF were at Livadia:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Anastasija/th_Anyamaj1914.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Anastasija/?action=view&current=Anyamaj1914.jpg)

I'm still inclined to believe the 1914 formals were taken in Tsarskoe Selo. The striped chairs in Olga and Maria's solo portraits clearly match the furniture in Alexandra's formal reception room:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Alexander%20Palace/th_1000461.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Alexander%20Palace/?action=view&current=1000461.jpg)

Also, signed photos were dated according to when they were autographed, not when they were taken. There was probably a significant delay between shooting the photos and having them developed, chosen, and printed.

I'll also browse Nicholas's May 1914 entries for mention of formal photograph sessions.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Forum Admin on November 04, 2008, 03:31:04 PM
For example, this photo:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/th_najboljaslika1913.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/najboljaslika1913.jpg)

We know it was taken in 1913, probably at Livadia. But which month? I meant--when IF visited Livadia in 1913?

I'm quite sure I ran across a mention of this photo-session in Olga's 1913 diary, but I'm having trouble finding it now. If I recall correctly, the pictures were taken at Tsarskoe Selo, possibly in late spring or early summer. I'll keep hunting for the exact date...

Sarah is right, all of those formal portraits were done at one time at the Alexander Palace by Boissonas & Eggler, early in the year for the tercentenary celebrations.  They were not done later in the year in the Crimea. They couldn't have been, since Boissonas & Eggler did not travel to do the photographs. They had Karl Hahn for the travelling photos.

Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on November 04, 2008, 04:02:45 PM
I've checked May of 1914 -- no mention by Nicholas of any photo sessions. I'll check January-April as time allows. (Though it's possible Nicholas might not have recorded the date of this photo session, since his own portrait was apparently not taken.)


Edited to add: A thank you to Laura Mabee is in order -- I woudn't be able to search for this information if she hadn't loaned me her copy of Nicholas's diary!
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Imperial_Grounds on November 04, 2008, 04:14:27 PM
Gotta keep an eye on this thread, and check my pictures.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Rodney_G. on November 04, 2008, 06:38:18 PM
That photo of the six of the IF seated on a greenhouse roof is from Tobolsk. I would say late fall, 1917, judging by their clothes. It's not from 1918; the weather hadn't improved that much before they left in late April, and in any case I doubt the new commandant was as lenient as the earlier one (Pankratov?) I believe I read somewhere that Nicholas helped to build the wooden structure that they sat on and/or the stairlike structure that led up to it (see TOM's link).

Pankratov was in power at least until 6/19 February 1918, possibly longer. (That was the date the second regiment demanded his resignation, but I'm not sure when Pankratov actually left.) Other photos of NOTMAA on the greenhouse roof also show snow on the ground, but I suppose that's not much help in Siberia....

I'll check Nicholas's diary for further clues.


Quote
Interestingly, as Lisa noted , it's hard to tell who is who. Two of the GDs seem identifiable but the other two could be either of the two others.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tobolskroof-1.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tobolskroof-1.jpg)
Left to right: Olga, NII, Aleksei, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia.


This closeup, likely from the same day, makes it easier to see who's who:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tobolskroofcloseup.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tobolskroofcloseup.jpg)
Seated, left to right: Olga, Anastasia, NII, Aleksei, Tatiana. Maria stands behind.
Sarushka, I must say your identification of the IF there is correct, although ID'ing them right is much easier from a Photobucket version, and enlarged at that. These photos as first appearing in some of the earlier Romanov books were of dubious clarity.And although again I think the ID is correct, it's remarkable how similar Maria and Anastasia appear.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on November 05, 2008, 08:26:22 AM
Also, signed photos were dated according to when they were autographed, not when they were taken. And it's possible that same furnitures were not only at AP.
How we know that?  I believe one of Tsarevich's and Tsar's one was indeed taken in August of 1916.
And were IF mentioned only Formal Photos seasons, or informal?

Let's continue:
July 4th, 1916, Mogilev:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/th_fa6b48ed.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/?action=view&current=fa6b48ed.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/th_14c6eaab.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/?action=view&current=14c6eaab.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/th_Stavka_Mogiljev_1916.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/?action=view&current=Stavka_Mogiljev_1916.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/th_Stavka_juli_1916.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/?action=view&current=Stavka_juli_1916.jpg)
October 4th, 1916:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/Aleksej_Stavka/th_a40eb487.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/Aleksej_Stavka/?action=view&current=a40eb487.jpg)


Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on November 05, 2008, 09:14:20 AM
For example, this photo:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/th_najboljaslika1913.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/najboljaslika1913.jpg)

We know it was taken in 1913, probably at Livadia. But which month? I meant--when IF visited Livadia in 1913?

I'm quite sure I ran across a mention of this photo-session in Olga's 1913 diary, but I'm having trouble finding it now. If I recall correctly, the pictures were taken at Tsarskoe Selo, possibly in late spring or early summer. I'll keep hunting for the exact date...

Sarah is right, all of those formal portraits were done at one time at the Alexander Palace by Boissonas & Eggler, early in the year for the tercentenary celebrations.  They were not done later in the year in the Crimea. They couldn't have been, since Boissonas & Eggler did not travel to do the photographs. They had Karl Hahn for the travelling photos.

I'm still hunting through diaries for clues on the 1913 portraits. I'm presuming they must have been done after Tatiana's recovery from typhoid, since she's wearing her wig in the photos. That means they were likely taken sometime after March, because Tatiana was still recuperating into the beginning of April. By mid-May the IF was traveling for the tercentenary celebrations, and their annual cruise on the Standart began on 9 June. So some time between April and the middle of May seems the most likely window. I haven't been able to find anything on the photos in Olga's diary (she only mentions a couple informal photos taken by Olga A and Anya), so I'll have to rely on Nicholas.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on November 05, 2008, 10:09:13 AM
I've browsed Nicholas's diary from the end of Tatiana's illness to the beginning of their cruise on the Standart. The only mention I found of any kind of photographs is on 7 April:

"At 9 o'clock Prokudin-Gorskii showed us new beautiful color photographic snapshots."

However, my Russian is far from fluent. I've just discovered while translating that sentence that although I've been on the lookout for words like foto, fotograf, fotoapparat, and fotografirovat', I've almost certainly missed the verbs snimat'/snimat'sya/snyat', which mean "to be photographed/have one's picture taken." Crap. I'm going to have to read those two months all over again. I'll recheck May of 1914 for the other formal session as well.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on November 05, 2008, 12:36:46 PM
Thanks you so much for these informations, Sarushka.  ;) Snimak or kartinka means photo, as far I know.
Mars's field, April 19th, 1916:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/th_Aleksandra_Aleksej_Petrograd_april_.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/?action=view&current=Aleksandra_Aleksej_Petrograd_april_.jpg)

May 1916, Stavka:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/th_mogiljevmaj1916rv9.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/?action=view&current=mogiljevmaj1916rv9.jpg)

Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on November 07, 2008, 06:34:33 PM
May 1916, Empress' lazaret,:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/th_TakodjedragocenofamiljaubolnicitjTa.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/?action=view&current=TakodjedragocenofamiljaubolnicitjTa.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/th_Carskafamnasvecanomotvaranju1916god.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/?action=view&current=Carskafamnasvecanomotvaranju1916god.jpg)
July 17, 1903:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Formalne%20slike%20and%20Romanov%20assorted/jul1903.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: charley on January 17, 2011, 06:44:54 PM
Does anyone have this full photo?  I remember seeing it years ago and I believe they are seated in front of a building with other people.  Also a exact date and location would be great. Thanks!

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/charley4/262.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: mishaxenia on February 13, 2011, 02:12:08 PM
you know the date and the place of the ceremony? thanks

(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/17867/2668439710105221653S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2668439710105221653xMToRI)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 13, 2011, 09:06:12 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_roto2_045.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/roto2_045.jpg)
This print from the 1920's says it was in July of 1918 ! lol!  Obviously wrong... and while it's not the exact photo in question, this  was  taken a few moments before or after it . ( The Tsar, Alexis and Tatiana haven't moved  )and plainly, it's  in Tobolsk. I believe the guess of fall ,1917 a good one. As has been noted, the benches aren't there yet
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: voyageroffreedom on February 16, 2011, 05:04:43 AM
Mishaxenia, this picture was taken in Moscow 1903, for a religious ceremony I think it was for Olga first communion.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on February 16, 2011, 09:24:28 AM
Mishaxenia, this picture was taken in Moscow 1903, for a religious ceremony I think it was for Olga first communion.

It may have been Easter 1903, rather than Olga's first communion. I don't know enough about Orthodox customs to know for sure, but if you do a search on "Olga 1903 communion" you can look up some of the old discussions.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: voyageroffreedom on February 17, 2011, 05:07:29 AM
I always saw this picture labeled as Olga first communion, but I have to admit you’re right it could be Easter, because the Orthodox Church doesn’t celebrate a first communion. I belong to the Orthodox Church (Greek Orthodox) and I never nor any of my relatives had what it is called a “first communion” as Greek Orthodox we don’t celebrate it here, though other non orthodox Christians communities in my country (I’m from Lebanon) still somehow give the first communion its importance. And looking at the picture, the event seems more important than a first communion, in Orthodox faith Easter is regarded as the central day in the entire Christian calendar (religiously speaking it is more important than Christmas in Orthodox Church).
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 17, 2011, 07:17:06 PM
I'm wondering if that photo was taken in Moscow and the occasion is  State related ...because Serge and Ella are behind them...it looks like the area where we have film of the family marching during the 1913 festivities . I love the little smile Olga gives  the camera. But since this was before Alexi's birth , it's  extra significant that Olga is there . Thank you for that explanation VOF =) ...It's interesting the  importance different aspects of Christianity  give  to the  holy days...both Xmas and Easter are about the coming of Christ...but at diffrent points
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: matushka on February 17, 2011, 10:59:37 PM
The picture was taken the 30.03.1903. The Imperial family, for the second time (first time 1900) came to the old capitale Moscow to celebrate the Holy Week and Easter. They arrived the 29.03. On sunday 30, there was the official procession of the family from the Kremlin to the cathedral of the Dormition of the Virgin. The Imperial couple with members of the imperial family attented there the Holy liturgy. As wrote Nicholas II in his diary: "at 10.40 begin to march through the rooms, took Olga with us." Easter was a week later. These weeks and Easter let a great impression on both the Tsar and the Grand-Duc Serge. One of those rare moments of unity beetwen Nicholas II and people.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: matushka on February 17, 2011, 11:16:30 PM
I have 2 more pictures of that moment. I will post them tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 18, 2011, 01:21:44 AM
matushka, thank you very much  for that information! I believe I have seen a photo of Maria Pavlovna, the younger, in court dress during this procession.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: voyageroffreedom on February 18, 2011, 07:14:22 AM
Thank you Matushka for the information. This is not a picture but represent the same event; we can see Maria Maria Pavlovna the younger with her brother Dmitry behind Ella and Sergei.
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z401/v0yager/portraits/50137.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 18, 2011, 09:35:28 AM
Thanks VOF, I remembered Maria Pavlovna the younger in court dress, but clearly I'm confusing this occasion with another photo.
This painting was based on the photo ( imo) but the artist took out a number of other people to get this grouping! lol!
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 18, 2011, 11:42:00 PM
While straightening up, I found something interesting among my Romanov items...a page from a French , printed in November 1915, showing photos I always thought were from late 1916 that were discussed earlier in this thread... It's the cover and on the other side two other photos .I can't begin to get the whole cover  on the scanner...the whole photos are half pages, but I scanned the date. The men in the Cossack group seems the same as the photos with the girls.... I scanned the captions for those who speak French

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/th_nanda1915cossosks.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/nanda1915cossosks.jpg)
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/th_NandAcossacks152.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/NandAcossacks152.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/th_NandAcossocks1115.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/NandAcossocks1115.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: voyageroffreedom on February 19, 2011, 06:14:13 AM
Thank you for these photos. The date is Saturday 13 November 1915.
What is written below the second photo: Emperor Nicolas II followed by his son who is now in perfect health after causing so much worries, inspects Cossacks of the imperial escort.

What is written below the third photo: The Tsar and Tsarevich on the front of the Russian army- a religious service in plain air.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 19, 2011, 07:51:52 AM
Thanks for the translation!=)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: matushka on February 20, 2011, 01:34:56 PM
3 differentes pictures of that sunday of marth 1903 in Moscow.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v695/clairecher/?action=view&current=0330Moscouprocession.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v695/clairecher/?action=view&current=0330Moscouprocessionmontant.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v695/clairecher/?action=view&current=0330processionversOuspensky.jpg
The last one is almost exactly the same MishaXenia posted, just a few details are differents.
Can not remember if "my" 3 pictures were downlowed from this forum or picked somewhere on the russian web. Sorry if they were already posted.

About these pictures of "L'Illustration". I wrote somewhere here that in my opinion they were taken the 4th October 1915, for the annual feast of the "Konvoy", the Jointed Regiment of Cosacks.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: matushka on February 20, 2011, 01:41:58 PM
Diary of Nicolas II for the 4th October 1915
In russian: "В 10 час. на площадке был отслужен молебен перед фронтом 1-й Кубанской и 3-й Терской сотен. Затем они прошли два раза церем. марш. До завтрака сидел за докладом в штабе. Завтракали все офицеры Конвоя. "
What means approximatively: "At 10 o'clock on the place was celebrated a Te Deum in front of the 1st century of Kuban and the 3rd century of Ter (?). Then they marched twice. (...) All officiers of the Escort had breakfast (with us)".
So that is this very Te Deum we see on the picture.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 20, 2011, 08:19:17 PM
...About these pictures of "L'Illustration". I wrote somewhere here that in my opinion they were taken the 4th October 1915, for the annual feast of the "Konvoy", the Jointed Regiment of Cosacks. 
I had always read this event was Oct of 1916...and so I'm glad to get the right year. Thank you
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: matushka on February 20, 2011, 11:15:26 PM
Bless-OTMA, at any case (I am not sure I was clear), this event occurent yearly. So these pictures are 4.10.1915, but the famous one, with the 4 Grand-duchess are 4.10.1916.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on February 21, 2011, 01:21:08 AM
Thanks for the calcification. Whlie the same Cossack gentlemen arranged very similarly in both sets of photos can confuse one...Alexis is older looking in the 1916 photos and we know for sure if the girls had been at the 1915 event, the  magazine would have printed their picture! lol!  Please excuse the book line in the phoro

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_oct16.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/oct16.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Rodney_G. on February 24, 2011, 12:35:17 PM
Diary of Nicolas II for the 4th October 1915
In russian: "В 10 час. на площадке был отслужен молебен перед фронтом 1-й Кубанской и 3-й Терской сотен. Затем они прошли два раза церем. марш. До завтрака сидел за докладом в штабе. Завтракали все офицеры Конвоя. "
What means approximatively: "At 10 o'clock on the place was celebrated a Te Deum in front of the 1st century of Kuban and the 3rd century of Ter (?). Then they marched twice. (...) All officiers of the Escort had breakfast (with us)".
So that is this very Te Deum we see on the picture.

A bit of a correction/clarification on first line of Nicholas' statement:   I think a better translation would be : "in front of the First Kuban and Third Terek Squads (or sotni)." Sotni are military units , commonly called squads, and in this case are of prominent  Cossack formations from the Kuban and Terek Cossack lands.
Title: IF Crimea 1916 visit
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 11, 2011, 04:26:18 PM
I have a picture of Nicholas II and Alexi visiting the Battleship "Imperatritsa Maria" in 1916 in "Warship International" magazine No4 1987. Does anyone know on what date this occured? I know NAOTMAA  visited the Crimea for the last time in the spring 0f 1916 does anyone know the dates. Also I believe I read somewhere that women were not allowed on the naval base which may be why there are no women present.
Title: Re: IF Crimea 1916 visit
Post by: Sunny on October 12, 2011, 12:35:14 AM
I think nena should know - he's wonderful with dates, expecially regarding Alexej.
But i think i've never seen the photo - can you post it or is it copyrighted or something?
Title: Re: IF Crimea 1916 visit
Post by: nena on October 12, 2011, 03:51:53 AM
See this link, there is full chronology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPXgxBALA78

Quote
-How terribly sad it is to leave the Crimea, the sea, the sailors and the ships-
(Grand Duchess Tatiana Nicholaievna, diary entry, on May 16th 1916.)

After short visiting Sebastopol, and attending the Black Sea Parade, IF, accompanied with servants and friends, moved to the city of Evpatoria, by the train. One of the main targets was the opening the Military Hospital of Empress Alexandra Feodorvna. Anna Vyrubova remembers that meeting in the city was the most beautiful, and all bathed in the southern Sun.

Imperial Train arrived at 10 o clock in the morning. After being wholeheartedly welcomed, the IF listened to the speech of the Governor, and then went to the Orthodox Church, where Church Service/Liturgy was served. Directly from Orthodox Temple, the IF proceeded to the Juma mosque, to be welcomed by Muslim community. Next to come, was arrival of IF to Karaite Kenasa and main Jewish synagogue in Evpatoria.

After paying tribute to three main Faiths, Empress Alexandra opened new Hospital named after her. Nicholas, Alexandra and daughters greeted soldiers and wounded people.

After official part of visit, Nicholas went with the Heir at the beach. Alexei played in warm sand, collected shells, built a tower, while Tsar kept neglecting people who followed them. Anna Vyrubova and Rita Khitrovo were presented too. Later, Tsar awarded some soldiers with medals, and Tsarina did some photos. At 6 oclock, with anthem God save the Tsar sung, Imperial Train left the Railroad Station.

Chronologically along with the Russian captions, translated :

0:05 to 0:21 It is 10 o clock. Alexei is seeking out of window, and IF is prepared to go out from the train.
0:22 to 0:42 IH leave Railroad Station
0:43 to 2:32 IH visit Orthodox Church
2:33 to 3:16 - IH visit Mosque
3:17 to 4:20 - IH visit Karaimska Kenassa
4:21 to 4:54 -Visiting Lazaret/Hospital of Empress Alexandra.
+ Nicholas reviewing army on horseback.

On May 16th 1916, IF visited Evpatoria, small town in western Crimea. The whole trip to the South occurred in May of 1916.

Quote
But i think i've never seen the photo - can you post it or is it copyrighted or something?
http://www.pushkin-history.ru/jpg/Imperat/Nikol_II/015/51815.jpg Full credit goes to Pushkin-history's site, and to Geglov.

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Krim/th_442a7b310e23.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Krim/?action=view&current=442a7b310e23.jpg)
Title: Re: IF Crimea 1916 visit
Post by: nena on October 12, 2011, 04:51:39 AM
Also I believe I read somewhere that women were not allowed on the naval base which may be why there are no women present.
Perhaps, but the whole family was present on the Battleship, according to the photos. There are two photos of IF among sailors on those ships taken in Crimea/Sevastopol in 1916.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sunny on October 12, 2011, 07:29:50 AM
nena, i really didn't have the pic, so thank you so much ^^
Title: IF 1916 Sevastopol Visit
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 12, 2011, 01:45:44 PM
I am trying to date a photo I have in Warship International magazine No4 1987. It is of Nicholas II and Alexi inspecting the crew of the battlaship Imperatitsa Maria. Does anyone know what dates the IF was in Sevastopol and the date of this inspection. I know it was sometime in the spring of 1916. The whole family was there but it I have read that women were not allowed on the naval base so AOTMA were not on the ship. Can anyone help me?
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: blessOTMA on October 12, 2011, 08:01:29 PM
Thank you nena! It's amazing to me how much younger Alexis looked  in his navy uniform at this time than his army uniform.  Perhaps because we have  photos where he is wearing his sailor uniform as a really young child.
Title: Re: IF 1916 Sevastopol Visit
Post by: nena on October 13, 2011, 03:37:05 AM
I am trying to date a photo I have in Warship International magazine No4 1987. It is of Nicholas II and Alexi inspecting the crew of the battlaship Imperatitsa Maria. Does anyone know what dates the IF was in Sevastopol and the date of this inspection. I know it was sometime in the spring of 1916. The whole family was there but it I have read that women were not allowed on the naval base so AOTMA were not on the ship. Can anyone help me?

IF/Nicholas visited Sevastopol on May 12th 1916, at 10 o' clock, according to Nicholas' diary, and he then visited ships 'Empress Catherine' and 'Empress Maria', and many others. There is photo of AOTMA on one of the battleships from Vyrubova's albums and several more of the whole family together among sailors on one of the battleships.

Perhaps I'll do a series of "Fashionable OTMA hats" posts on the blog! Along with those and the strange close-fitting white ones that have the feathers sticking straight up at front, I can already think of several more; this one for example: http://www.livadia.org/mashka/images/mashka1915_4.jpg Do you know of any more? Ah! These:
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2277/aotma1913.th.jpg) (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/aotma1913.jpg/)  
Where are they at, anyways? That big metal thing...very odd. Looks like an oil drill place!  ??? Year, anyone? I have it labeled as 1913, but I know that must be wrong. I'm thinking more 1915...
Anyways, we'd better stay on topic! Post anoter Maria photo!  :D
P.S. great clear hospital photo, blessOTMA!

It was taken on one of their trips to the South Crimea/Sevastopol, in 1915 or 1916, I am nit certain, Nicholas visited in in both 1915 and 1916. I assume it is cruiser 'Empress Marie', which Alexei once hit. But certainly it was taken on the ship, during one of the war-visits to the Crimea.
However, is is possible that women were not indeed permitted, but except only the members of the IF, since photos of AOTMA on the ships exist.

Family visit Sevastopol, 12th May 1916:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Ceremonije/th_Familija_brod_Sevastopolj_maj_1916.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Ceremonije/Familija_brod_Sevastopolj_maj_1916.jpg)
I believe that this was taken the following day, only of Nicholas, when he visited other battleships:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Nikolaj%20II/th_166155738.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Nikolaj%20II/?action=view&current=166155738.jpg)
Thanks to Geglov's site!

Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sunny on October 13, 2011, 07:02:53 AM
And thanks to your memory Nena! You're amazing!
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sunny on October 13, 2011, 07:07:34 AM
you know the date and the place of the ceremony? thanks

(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/17867/2668439710105221653S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2668439710105221653xMToRI)

BTW: digging, we found out it was not Olga's first communion. Today i qas reading Miss Eagar's book and she wrote:

The rite of Confirmation is administered immediately after baptism, and children up to the age of seven years can receive the Communion as often as every month. After that age confession and church-going are essential, before receiving the Communion.The little Grand Duchess Olga made her first confession in Moscow, during Lent, I903, and she received a gift from the children of Moscow, of an icon of the Virgin Mary. Face and hands are painted, all draperies, etc., are executed in pearls.

Taken from the AP site version of the book, chap. 5
Maybe this could be the answer? (i didn't see this quoted before).

Mods, sorry for having quoted a pic, but otherwise my post wouldn't have had sense.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Katya_C on October 13, 2011, 10:27:06 AM
you know the date and the place of the ceremony? thanks

(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/17867/2668439710105221653S425x425Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2668439710105221653xMToRI)

BTW: digging, we found out it was not Olga's first communion. Today i qas reading Miss Eagar's book and she wrote:

The rite of Confirmation is administered immediately after baptism, and children up to the age of seven years can receive the Communion as often as every month. After that age confession and church-going are essential, before receiving the Communion.The little Grand Duchess Olga made her first confession in Moscow, during Lent, I903, and she received a gift from the children of Moscow, of an icon of the Virgin Mary. Face and hands are painted, all draperies, etc., are executed in pearls.

Taken from the AP site version of the book, chap. 5
Maybe this could be the answer? (i didn't see this quoted before).

Mods, sorry for having quoted a pic, but otherwise my post wouldn't have had sense.

Here is the description that I have for that photo (below), but I don't remember who wrote it [description]. I probably should keep track of description/caption writers, but have just never gotten around to it.

"Emperor Nicholas II, Empress Alexandra & Grand Duchess Olga, with Serge and Ella behind them, in the official procession of the family from the Kremlin to the cathedral of the Dormition of the Virgin, Moscow, Easter Sunday, March 30, 1903."
 
Best wishes,
Katya C.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on October 16, 2011, 08:10:22 AM
Aleksei's video footage smiling in car was taken in Odessa, November of 1915, when Tsar visited the whole Eastern front, here is the photo:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/getImage.jpg)
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sunny on October 16, 2011, 10:56:01 AM
Aleksei's video footage smiling in car was taken in Odessa, November of 1915, when Tsar visited the whole Eastern front, here is the photo:

I thought it was taken and HQ in Mogilev| Wow, thanks for correction!
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on October 16, 2011, 11:28:08 AM
Well, I thought the same. But I had the doubts, given the fact that I had knew that Alexei went with father on October 2nd 1915 to the Stavka, and went back there in May in 1916, and he was in winter suit, so it should have been taken in late 1915 rather to late 1916, and many other  photos of him were actually taken in 1915 rather in 1916.

Same:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksej/Copyofmog1916.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/Aleksej_Stavka/3bd3c27a.jpg)

Also, I'd love you to add some photos with dates.

Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 18, 2011, 10:51:10 AM
In the photo below the caption "Family visit Sevastopol 12 may 1916" the ships in the foreground look like Derzky class destroyers. Behind them is what looks like either the seaplane carrier Imperator Nikolai I or Imperator Alexander I. They were both ex-passanger/cargo ships converted to this role and were quite active in the Black sea during WW I.
In the photo below this one where Nichols II alone is inspecting a Battleship or Crusier. I can't identify the ship but it looks like it was taken at another time. In the previous photo them men are in summer uniforms in this photo all them men are wearing overcoats. I will try and identify the ship but it may take awhile.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 26, 2011, 06:14:26 PM
I have some comments on the Evpatoria film clip: AOTMA are visiting a mosque and they are not forced to put on headscarves! and Anastasia hair is hanging out down her back! any European royal family that did something like this today would cause rioting to break out all over the Moslem world for insuling Islam ect. The IF is also visiting a Synagogue so we can say they are no longer anti-semities. Finally, if you have any pictures of Russian Warships of this period and want to identify them post the pictures on this site and I will try and identify them. This also applys to aircraft and armored vehicals.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sarushka on October 27, 2011, 10:14:43 AM
The IF is also visiting a Synagogue so we can say they are no longer anti-semities.

I disagree. While it certainly suggests that the imperial family did not want to be viewed as anti-semites, visiting a synagogue does not constitute proof of anti-semitism any more than a trip to Africa proves that a person believes blacks are equal to whites. What they believed privately and how this affected the tsar's policies with regard to his jewish subjects is another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Sunny on October 27, 2011, 11:12:33 AM
The IF is also visiting a Synagogue so we can say they are no longer anti-semities.

I disagree. While it certainly suggests that the imperial family did not want to be viewed as anti-semites, visiting a synagogue does not constitute proof of anti-semitism any more than a trip to Africa proves that a person believes blacks are equal to whites. What they believed privately and how this affected the tsar's policies with regard to his jewish subjects is another matter entirely.

A word like "anti - seminitism" is something we use nowadays. In Nicholas's Russia it was considered quite normal for upper class people being anti - semities. To my knowledge, it has been normal not only in Russia, but all around Europe for a very long time - i'd dare say, till WWII. Hitler was not the "only stupid evil man in the world" who hates Jews - it was, as far as I know, a very common way of thinking, even if it sounds horrible to us.
We should remember that people of other cultures usually have a different way to view the world. Nicholas was not "evil" because was antisemite. Most of russian - and not only russian! - were.
Of course, i'm not saying being anti - semite is right, on the contrary. Just pointing out that people in different periods think differrent ways.

Sorry for OT
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on December 07, 2011, 03:40:37 PM
I think I have identified the Ship Nicholas is inspecting alone wearing an overcoat in the lower photogragh just above the caption "thanks to Geglovs site". It is one of the following 3 Battleships: the Ievstafi, Ioann Zlatovst or Pantelimon (ex-Potemkin yes that "Battleship Potemkin" of the mutiny and movie fame). This is comparing the photo with a drawing in "Janes Fighting Ships 1914". All three ships look similiar and if someone has some more information feel free to correct me.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: nena on December 13, 2011, 11:49:05 AM
I think I have identified the Ship Nicholas is inspecting alone wearing an overcoat in the lower photogragh just above the caption "thanks to Geglovs site". It is one of the following 3 Battleships: the Ievstafi, Ioann Zlatovst or Pantelimon (ex-Potemkin yes that "Battleship Potemkin" of the mutiny and movie fame). This is comparing the photo with a drawing in "Janes Fighting Ships 1914". All three ships look similiar and if someone has some more information feel free to correct me.
Most likely correct -- I remember seeing that Russian Archives labeled the one as 'Nicholas visiting a battleship, May 1914'. I can't find further information right now, but you are correct. However, one site still labels it as 'Sevastopol, 1916'.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on January 17, 2012, 05:47:02 PM
In the great war forum Eastern front section they have a link to the Russian wartime magazine War Notes the photo captions are translated roughly into English. There are quite a few photos of the IF. Posting  #54 the picture of AOTMA looks like it was taken on a battleship most likely the Imperial Catherine on 12 May 1916. post #45 Sotni is Russian for Squadron/company of cavalry. Posting #26 this photo could have been taken in 1916 it looks like OTMA are wearing the same or simliar hats that they are wearing in post #54. i hope this is of help.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on January 18, 2012, 04:14:20 PM
Oops! Sotnia is for Cossak units only it is the equvilent of squadron or company. i think it is based on the word hundred or hundreds.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Kalafrana on January 19, 2012, 06:20:17 AM
What is the Russian for squadron, company or battery in line regiments?

Might be useful one day!

Ann
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on March 28, 2012, 05:24:43 PM
In reading Nicholas II letters to his his on this site ha mentions in his 29 Jan 1915 letter going on board the Eustaphia and Kagoula. On reply 54 the bottom photo there is a picture of him and the crew of a ship which mostly likely the Eustaphia or Ievsafi. There are about 3 or 4 ways to spell the names of WW I era Russian ships. It looks like this photo was taken at this tim3 29 january 1915 hence the overcoats rather than during the IFs may 1916 visit. Note the Kagoula is often spelled Kagol.
Company/Squadron/Battery were Company/Squadron/Battery in Russian Army.
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Kalafrana on March 29, 2012, 02:00:24 AM
Many thanks
Title: Re: Exact dates of the photos of the Imperial Family
Post by: Kassafrass on November 10, 2013, 12:05:57 AM
(http://nd06.jxs.cz/821/901/f4dd8cf654_95871629_u.jpg)

Friday, June 22 1917 - "As the Grand-Duchesses were losing all their hair as the result of their illness, their heads have been shaved. When they go out in the park they wear scarves arranged so as to conceal the fact. just as I was going to take their photographs, at a sign from Olga Nicolaievna they all suddenly removed their headdress. I protested, but they insisted, much amused at the idea of seeing themselves photographed like this, and looking forward to seeing the indignant surprise of their parents. Their good spirits reappear from time to time in spite of everything. It is their exuberant youth." Gilliard

This doesn't necessarily prove that it was this day, but it's possible that it was the same day as the entry.