Alexander Palace Forum

Books and Films about the Romanovs and Imperial Russia => Books about the Romanovs and Imperial Russia => Topic started by: Sarushka on September 04, 2008, 09:07:12 AM

Title: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 04, 2008, 09:07:12 AM
Raegan has broken the news of her involvement with this project in other threads, but I just received an update from Gilbert's Royal Books this morning and thought it was time this book had its own official thread.

"Gilbert's Royal Books is pleased to announce that we have signed a contract with Sergei Mironenko, Director of the State Archives of the Russian Federation (GARF) to publish The 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna. This project is thanks to the efforts of Raegan Baker. The translation of the diary is by Marina Petrov. This book will be published in September and available in October. We are very excited about the projects we are working on with GARF which will allow us to offer English editions of books on the Romanovs for the first time."

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/new.html (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/new.html)


Has anyone else read any of Marina Petrov's translation work? I'm not familiar with her, and this is the first time I've heard her mentioned as part of this project.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on September 04, 2008, 09:31:34 AM
I've already ordered a copy trough van Hoogstraten.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Laura Mabee on September 04, 2008, 10:12:40 AM
Thanks for the post Sarushka, I was just coming here to post this too.
I'm really looking forward to this new publication, and hopefully many more similar to it to come! 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Raegan on September 04, 2008, 11:20:14 AM
Marina Petrov is a professional translator I hired when I return to the United States after my first trip to Russia in 2005. During my first trip to GARF, I made copies of some of the family’s diaries and letters (as well as other documents) and came to the decision to publish Grand Duchess Olga’s 1913 diary in order to give people a glimpse into the private life of the family. After the translation of the diary was completed, I did the editing, wrote the introduction and included an explanation of the Russian calendar in 1913, as well as a list of people Olga wrote about in her diary and their relation to her.

I want to thank everyone who has sent me private messages of congratulations. I do apologize to the people I have not yet gotten back to. Life has been kind of hectic lately, so I am taking a much needed vacation soon. Also, thanks to the people who knew about this project of mine long before it was ever mentioned here on the forum. Your words of encouragement and interest in the book were so kind. Yes, that includes you Teddy! Thank you!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Laura Mabee on September 04, 2008, 12:56:15 PM
Raegan just sent me the cover of the book to post!
Here is the cover of Olga's 1913 Diary:

(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4590/olgacoveruw4.png)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 04, 2008, 02:41:01 PM
Raegan, thanks for the info. I'll be posting this to the APTM Book Finder as soon as I have an ISBN -- when I last inquired of Paul Gilbert, it wasn't yet available.

For residents of the US, is there any benefit to ordering Olga's diary through Van Hoogstraten rather than Gilbert's Royal Books? GRB's shipping prices always struck me as a tad excessive, but I'm not sure overseas postage from the Netherlands will be any bargain either.

I'm very much looking forward to reading Olga's diary in its entirety after so many years of rumors! I'm also curious to know what other projects Gilbert's Royal Books has planned for its collaboration with GARF....
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on September 04, 2008, 03:33:14 PM
Thank you Raegan. We all hopefully enjoy your book.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: rgt9w on September 04, 2008, 03:53:27 PM

I look forward to reading Raegan's translation of Olga's diary. Thanks for the information about this project. By chance, are all of Olga diaries from 1913 to 1918 accounted for in GARF?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Marie-Catherine on September 04, 2008, 04:10:35 PM
Ooh this is such wonderful news ! Will it be avaible through Amazon..Because I'm using.. you know.. Mama's credit card and she only trust websites like Amazon :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 04, 2008, 04:38:14 PM
By chance, are all of Olga diaries from 1913 to 1918 accounted for in GARF?

Here's an old post from Georgiy that tells exactly which of OTMA's diaries are in GARF:

The book "August Sisters of Mercy" has in the introduction information about what GARF has in its archives by the Grand Duchesses. About the diaries, the information is as follows:

Olga: 12 diaries from 1905 - 1917, with the 1910 volume missing. The first entry on 01/01/05 begins "I was at Church with Mama and Papa." Olga's last diary entry was on 15/03/17.

Tatiana: 9 diaries from 1907 - 1916, with the 1911 one missing. The last entry is on 24/10/16. The exercise book she used for a diary for the rest of the year and into 1917, apparantly, she destroyed.

Maria: 3 diaries: 1912, 1913 and 1916.

Anastasia: No diaries. All appear to have been destroyed or lost. There are however some of her exercise books, compositions, drawings, letters etc.

All 4 of course have photo albums and photos in the archives, too.

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: koloagirl on September 05, 2008, 12:50:31 AM

Aloha all!

Wow - this sounds like such a wonderful publication that many of us have been eagerly waiting for!  After reading excerpts from it in various publications (as well as here!) - it will be fantastic to read it in its entirety!
Can't wait to get it!

Janet R.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on September 05, 2008, 01:34:16 AM
Yayy!! I can't wait to finally get it!

I was also wondering, will it be available through Amazon.com?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Michael HR on September 05, 2008, 05:38:25 AM
You know at this rate I am going to have to have a monthly budget for books! Once you start down the Romanov road there is simply no end insight...

Hell, who cares :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on September 05, 2008, 02:29:43 PM
I completelly agree that is good news!   ;)  Also, thanks to Sarushka and Georgiy for explaining GARF's hold of OTMA's diaries. Also, I was really suprsied Anastasia have not any diary in GARF...-would love to see their albums.
Wonder how many albums each Grand Duchess had? Which number of photos, which period, etc.
I guess they toke many photos just because simply they loved to do it. Also, one part went for postcards, some went to Russian newspapers, and some for their Private albums. Agree? It means, one photo, IMO, were several times copied.
And, back to topic(partly) did OTMA held their own photos in diaries, or in Albums? Just curious.  ;)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Michael HR on September 05, 2008, 02:32:06 PM
I think Anastasia destroyed her diary whilst in Tobolsk, I read somewhere on the forum.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on September 05, 2008, 02:33:43 PM
I did it also(read it), but reason? And she destoyed all? How Maria didn't?

Sorry for off topic, and to say one more time, I am excited about new book.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 05, 2008, 04:08:02 PM
Wonder how many albums each Grand Duchess had? Which number of photos, which period, etc.
I guess they toke many photos just because simply they loved to do it. Also, one part went for postcards, some went to Russian newspapers, and some for their Private albums. Agree? It means, one photo, IMO, were several times copied.
And, back to topic(partly) did OTMA held their own photos in diaries, or in Albums? Just curious.  ;)

To my knowledge, each of the grand duchesses and Aleksei had their own personal photo albums, and they did choose their own photos. They included both formal and informal shots, as well as postcards. I don't know how many albums each of the children had. Raegan might know, as she's been to GARF.


I think Anastasia destroyed her diary whilst in Tobolsk, I read somewhere on the forum.

Yes, according to Nicholas's diary on 9/22 April 1918, Maria and Anastasia both burned their diaries upon Yakovlev's arrival in Tobolsk -- even before he announced the tsar was to be transferred. Unfortunately, Nicholas doesn't specify how many diaries each girl burned -- only the 1918 volumes, or more? I've always wondered if Anastasia burned ALL her diaries that night, or if the remaining volumes were simply lost.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on September 05, 2008, 04:45:03 PM
Correct!
I can mention Maria's album for year 1917, for example.

Alexandra's one for for 1911 and 1915.

I think also, IF never seen some pics. taken by servants - during captivity, or during ceremonies, correct? Yes, I've always wondered did Anastasia burned all diaries....? Hope once we'll know more about it. Also, many Romanov goods, how to say, are outside of Russia, at Germany, at museums.  Can it posiible some their images, or diaries(but I highly doubt) are still kept somewhere else? 

I don't love to go in Topic off, but it very oftenly happen.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Louis_Charles on September 05, 2008, 05:59:40 PM
I'm also curious in an off-topic-y kind of way. Why were the girls allowed to burn their diaries? I am assuming that they could not have burned them without the guards awareness. Did they have permission to do this? Were the diaries examined before being consigned to what I guess would have been a stove?

Thanks to anyone who can answer the question,

Simon
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 05, 2008, 06:15:01 PM
I don't think the guards were regularly present in the family's rooms. I would presume the IF could have tossed a few items in the stove or fireplace without anyone of consequence noticing.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Elbereth on September 09, 2008, 11:09:37 AM
Does somebody have the diaries of Grand Duchesses in Russian? The GARF is so far...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 09, 2008, 12:33:06 PM
I've already ordered a copy trough van Hoogstraten.

Teddy -- I emailed van Hoogstraten asking about price and availability of Olga's diary but got no response. Do you have any information you can share regarding cost or publication date?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 11, 2008, 02:21:48 AM
I have no idea how such things work. Could anyone tell me when it´s going to be for sale on the Amazon? (if it´s ever oging to be...)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 11, 2008, 08:26:36 AM
Gilbert's Royal Books occasionally sells some of their books on eBay, but I'm not sure about Amazon. You can email Paul Gilbert directly to ask about Olga's Diary: gilbertsroyalbooks@yahoo.com.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Laura Mabee on September 17, 2008, 04:58:32 PM
Raegan has kindly sent me a link that has some information on her book:

Check it Out! (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/grbpg27.html)

Here is a summary of the link:

----

Nicholas II and his wife Alexandra, the last tsar and tsarina of Russia kept meticulous diaries throughout their lives, recording their day-to-day lives in sometimes intimate detail. It was a pastime that they passed onto their children, including their eldest daughter, Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaievna.

Her 1913 diary is truly exceptional. Not only does it coincide with the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty, but for the first time ever, readers will truly come to “know” Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaievna and her family on a truly personal level.

Through her daily entries, we see the young grand duchess emerge as a young woman when she reaches her 18th birthday in November. We read of her concerns for her mother’s health and that of her younger brother, Alexei, who suffers from haemophilia and her younger sister, Tatiana, who recovers from typhoid. Her playful character comes alive when she is with her siblings, her cousins and her dear Aunt Olga. She takes us on journeys aboard her beloved Standart through the Finnish archipelago and to the Crimea where it seems the family is happiest. They spend several months at Livadia, their palace on the Russian Riviera. We learn that Olga likes to smoke and is an incorrigible flirt. She opens her heart to innocent love that can never be with several dashing officers: N.P, AKSH and dear S., all of whom she never divulges their true identity.

In July 1918, Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaievna and her family were murdered by the Bolsheviks in the Ural city of Ekaterinburg.

Olga’s 1913 Diary is published in English for the first time thanks to the efforts of Raegan Baker, Editor and Sergei Mironenko, Director of the State Archives of the Russian Federation (GARF).

ITEM # 1027
Published 2008
NEW Trade Paperback edition
173 pages with 12 B&W photos
$25.00 PLUS S&H - PRICES IN US DOLLARS

----

No date yet on when it will come out, but I have to admit, the summary of the diary sounds really fascinating to me!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: matushka on September 17, 2008, 05:18:34 PM
Hurrah!
Reagan,
Will it also published in russian? I would prefer to read the original!!
With other people from Europa: how can we get the book! America is so far and post so expensive!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on September 17, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
Thank you for that lovely summary, Laura!
I do hope it will be available from Amazon soon!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 03, 2008, 09:10:14 AM
Hey all,

I received an email from Gilbert's Royal Books this morning with a link to the following page announcing that Olga's 1913 diary will debut this month:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/new.html (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/new.html)

The book is not available yet -- not even for pre-order -- but you can check this page for updates:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/grbpg27.html (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/grbpg27.html)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 03, 2008, 09:39:40 AM
To US residents contemplating ordering Olga's diary from Gilbert's Royal Books:

I'm thinking we *might* be able save some money on shipping if we band together and place a group order. Gilbert charges $15 for the first book, and $4 for each additional book to the US -- that's on par with postage rates from Europe!

Depending on how many orders we can accumulate, it could be cheaper to share the cost of Canadian postage, ship all the books to myself, then repackage them and charge each of you for domestic shipping. It may well turn out to be too complicated to pull off, but it sounds good in theory at least. (Just like Communism.) Please PM me if you're interested.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on October 03, 2008, 11:41:41 AM
I hope the pictures she includes are some new ones!


That's a good idea, Sarushka. I'll have to get back to you if I'm going to try it, though. I might have to get this as a Christmas present if I don't have enough money.


Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 06, 2008, 04:46:43 PM
Olga's diary is now in stock at GRB.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen on October 07, 2008, 02:02:52 AM
Thank you, Sarushka, for breaking this news. I ordered a copy right away.

And a BIG 'Thank you!' to Raegan for giving us this wonderful book! :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarai on October 07, 2008, 01:48:43 PM
That's great news, I will order my copy ASAP as well!

By the way, I live in Ontario (same province as Gilbert's) and I wrote to him saying that I *know* that it won't cost $15 USD to ship the book within the same province. He replied saying that of course I wouldn't have to pay that much and he will let me know the actual shipping cost once he gets it weighed at the post office. Just thought I'd pass that information along to others who live in the same province (even within Canada it may be cheaper). All it takes is just to ask him, don't just pay what is asked if there is a justifiable reason not to.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: matushka on October 10, 2008, 08:22:06 AM
I want to order a copy, but the post cost are indeed very high! Perhaps someone in Europe want to order with me a second copy? Nena, perhaps you?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: leslie on October 14, 2008, 10:19:52 AM
There are 4 copies of the book being sold as "Buy It Now" on E-bay.  Price is $25.00 american dollars plus $15.00 shipping and handling.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 14, 2008, 01:04:31 PM
There are 4 copies of the book being sold as "Buy It Now" on E-bay.  Price is $25.00 american dollars plus $15.00 shipping and handling.

Same price as Gilbert offers on his bookshop website.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 14, 2008, 02:32:39 PM
I got my copy yesterday, thanks to the sneakiness and generosity of Laura Mabee!

Basics: The text itself is more lively than you've probably been led to believe over the years, but at the same time an odd combination of engrossing and boring. On one hand, I don't think I've ever read so many tennis scores in my life(!) but on the other, I couldn't help staying up until nearly 2:00 am last night to finish. It is FAR less tedious than Alexandra's last diary, for example, and I'm fairly confident that serious Romanov devotees will not be disappointed. The 12 photographs inside are not likely to be new to AP members.

A word to the wise: the pink dye on the back cover is prone to rubbing off. I covered my copy with contact paper to prevent staining, and reinforce the binding.

Overall, I'm thrilled to have access to a full year of Olga's diary. However, being accustomed to thoroughly annotated volumes like The Complete Wartime Correspondence and The Last Diary of Tsaritsa Alexandra, I'm somewhat disappointed with a few of what you might call the academic aspects of the presentation. For instance, there's no index, very few notes, and dozens of unfamiliar names are not identified -- lots of officers and guests at Olga A's weekend parties, as well as nicknames I'd never heard of like "Aunt Mops" and "Aunt Minnie." There's apparently some kind of family code referring to Alexandra's heart complaints ("Mama's heart is #2" for example) which isn't explained or addressed. In December Olga also began using a code to write about Voronov, but I was disappointed that the few coded lines have been omitted. (Though you can find a brief discussion of them in At Home with the Last Tsar and His Family (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=24), which includes a few deciphered lines.)


*I don't know if I'd call these "spoilers" but I'm going to get into a few specifics now. Avert your eyes or consider yourself warned...*


Things that surprised me:

1. Olga's overall lightheartedness. Now that I have some solid context for her pre-war personality, I'd really like to read the wartime diaries and letters so I can gauge her changing state of mind.

2. The state of Alexandra's health, even out of the public eye. There's a virtually daily litany of headaches, backaches, and heart complaints, and it's clear that Alexandra's health is more worrisome to Olga than Aleksei's. It's frankly amazing that Alexandra worked in the lazaret as often as she did.

3. How many ballets, plays, circuses, and operas Olga attended during the social season (New Year's through lent). It's not a daily thing by any means, but I didn't realize how often the older girls were able to attend cultural events of this sort.

4. How little fanfare the 1913 tercentenary celebrations claim in Olga's diary.

5. Just how much seasonal physical exercise NOTMA took -- sledding, skiing, horseback riding, kayaking, swimming, hiking, tennis, etc. It's one thing to be told they exercised a lot, but quite another to see how prominently outdoor activity figured into their daily lives.

6. Olga's delight, at age 17, in playing childhood games (hide and seek, slap-on-hands, etc.) with officers as much as 5-15 years her senior at Olga A's.

7. How rarely Maria, Aleksei, and to some degree Anastasia are mentioned by name (unless there was a doubles tennis match). Olga's diary provides almost no hints into her siblings' personalities, and solidly reinforces the idea of a Big Pair-Little Pair split.

8. Some readers may disagree with me, but IMO, Olga's relationship with Pavel Voronov wasn't much more than an intense teenage crush. Infatuations with three other officers also flare and then fade within the course of the year. (I was amused to discover that 33-year-old Sablin was one of them.) For example, near the end of the year her affection for "S" (Voronov) even seems to wane a bit as another fellow called "Sh" takes prominence.

9. There's no entry on Olga's 18th birthday. (Drat!)

10. Her adoration of Olga A -- "sweetheart Aunt Olga."


Things that didn't surprise me:

1. Olga's social life. A fair number of theatrical performances in the early winter months, followed by the relatively quiet domestic life we've come to expect from the IF. Yes, there are occasional visits with Ksenia's family, lots of outdoor exercise, and lively afternoons at Olga A's home capering with officers, but to me, none of these habitual acquaintances stood out as a real friendship. Rita K is never mentioned, for example. Olga clearly treasures those afternoons at her aunt's house, but in a sense even that comes off as sad to my modern social sensibilities. There appear to have been a few cousins and other young people invited (it's hard to tell for sure in the absence of identification or biographical info), but Olga's attention is always devoted to the officers. She's basically drinking tea and playing hide-and-seek with men who might be nearly twice her age, and it's the highlight of her week. To my mind, that actually reinforces the notion of the OTMA's naivete and insulation rather than contradicting it.

2. Olga's lack of introspection. She writes plainly of being happy, sad, bored, etc. and you can infer her state of mind from the overall tone, but IMO there's little depth. It's all surface emotion, though her entries aren't quite as laden with pet names and endearments as I'd expected.

3. Olga's intellect. We know from the courtiers' memoirs that she was a quick study, had a good memory, played complicated piano pieces well by ear, and liked to read. But if she was also exceptionally thoughtful and perceptive, it doesn't come across in her 1913 diary. Matter of fact, this diary reminds me a bit of the beginning of Anne Frank's diary -- for all her eventual wisdom and insight in captivity, Anne was a perfectly typical teenager at the beginning, and so is Olga throughout 1913. Again, I'm left REALLY wanting to read the girls' wartime diaries to see how their outlook changes.

*end of potential spoilers*

Overall, the diary hasn't drastically changed my view of Olga, but I'm still thrilled with it in a dorky fangirl way. There is definitely a valuable sense of context and continuity to gain by reading an entire, uncut year. As I said initially, as an academic reference it has some shortcomings, but for a glimpse into the daily life of the IF, this book is a treasure.

Thanks again to Laura for such a treat!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet_W. on October 14, 2008, 03:32:50 PM
Sarushka, thank you so much for your assessment of the recently published diary of Olga Nikolaievna. Very generous of you, and much appreciated! Many thanks to Laura as well for helping to expedite your receipt of the diary.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: JBenjamin82 on October 19, 2008, 02:04:29 AM
1. Olga's overall lightheartedness. Now that I have some solid context for her pre-war personality, I'd really like to read the wartime diaries and letters so I can gauge her changing state of mind.

For sure. After reading the diary, I really, really wanted to read the rest of her diaries. Maybe Raegan will publish them in the future (I hope so!).

Quote
Some readers may disagree with me, but IMO, Olga's relationship with Pavel Voronov wasn't much more than an intense teenage crush. Infatuations with three other officers also flare and then fade within the course of the year. (I was amused to discover that 33-year-old Sablin was one of them.) For example, near the end of the year her affection for "S" (Voronov) even seems to wane a bit as another fellow called "Sh" takes prominence.

I agree. They struck me as being strong infatuations rather than anything more serious. One month, she'd be all, "I love him very, very much," but a few months later, she seemed to be like, "Meh, whatever." Also, I found it amusing that she pretended to be "over" Voronov in December when it seemed sort of obvious that that was anything but true. But anyhow, I got the impression that she realized the futility of her crush, and that she tried to convince herself that she wasn't as interested in him as she once was. Oh, and how cute/funny was it that she'd watch Voronov through binoculars? :-)

I wonder who that AKSH fella was. Anyone know?

Quote
Olga's lack of introspection. She writes plainly of being happy, sad, bored, etc. and you can infer her state of mind from the overall tone, but IMO there's little depth. It's all surface emotion, though her entries aren't quite as laden with pet names and endearments as I'd expected.

Totally agree with you here. I kept hoping Olga would write a bit more like Anne Frank or Grand Duke KR.

Quote
But if she was also exceptionally thoughtful and perceptive, it doesn't come across in her 1913 diary. Matter of fact, this diary reminds me a bit of the beginning of Anne Frank's diary -- for all her eventual wisdom and insight in captivity, Anne was a perfectly typical teenager at the beginning, and so is Olga throughout 1913.

I don't mean this as a criticism of Olga, but Anne Frank seemed a bit more introspective even before she went into captivity. But then again, I think Anne Frank was an exceptionally talented writer, especially for her age. Had she survived, I think it's possible we'd have known her name anyway. Olga was a nice, sweet kid, and I love all of the Romanovs, but I don't think she can hold a candle to Anne Frank in the writing department (Sorry, Olga!).

Quote
Again, I'm left REALLY wanting to read the girls' wartime diaries to see how their outlook changes.

Me too. What I would give to have free, unrestricted access to GARF! I'd be like a kid in a candy store. I guess I'm a dork like that. ;-)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on October 19, 2008, 07:49:28 AM
Fantastic, Sarushka! Thanks. I hope I'll ge book someday. About other girls' diaries, we'll be maybe able to read them, expect of Anastasia.  :-\
And I forgot list of OTM diaries with years. Only remember Maria's for 1913, 1916. And Tatiana's for 1916.
And about Olga; for example -- playing games--she was oldest, and had younger sablings, so it is maybe logic she played games with them. I know Olga was mature girl, but..(I think she did it unawares)
And I am really suprised about 1913 ceremonies you mentioned.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 19, 2008, 08:02:29 AM
Oh, and how cute/funny was it that she'd watch Voronov through binoculars? :-)

Loved that. And I couldn't help thinking, jeeze, if Olga's watching her crush with binoculars, what on earth was Maria doing to get her boy-crazy reputation??


Quote
I wonder who that AKSH fella was. Anyone know?

Nope. But we might be able to track him down with a few little clues in the diary. His birthday and namesday, for example.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 19, 2008, 08:06:17 AM
And I forgot list of OTM diaries with years. Only remember Maria's for 1913, 1916. And Tatiana's for 1916.

GARF's holdings of the grand duchesses' diaries, according to the book Royal Sisters of Mercy:

Olga: 12 diaries from 1905 - 1917, with the 1910 volume missing. The first entry on 01/01/05 begins "I was at Church with Mama and Papa." Olga's last diary entry was on 15/03/17.

Tatiana: 9 diaries from 1907 - 1916, with the 1911 one missing. The last entry is on 24/10/16. The exercise book she used for a diary for the rest of the year and into 1917, apparantly, she destroyed.

Maria: 3 diaries: 1912, 1913 and 1916.

Anastasia: No diaries. All appear to have been destroyed or lost.

(Thanks to Georgiy, who translated and posted this info in November of 2006.)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: markjhnstn on October 21, 2008, 07:19:09 AM
I've just started Olga's diary. Have read up to the end of March. I'm amazed at how much time Alexandra is not well. Nearly every day of the year so far. Her health seems to be even worse than I had ever realised from everything i have read about her.

Aunt Olga's seems to be the place where they let their hair down. Hide and seek in dark basements with young officers. Playing games called; turkey, rope and slap-hands!!

AKSH is number one beau it seems, closely followed by NP.

AK is a cossack officer i gather and NP is from the Standardt i guess.

Quite poignant on the entry for the ball she attends when she writes "my first ball". There probably wasn't that many more.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarai on October 21, 2008, 07:48:43 AM
I have also started reading the diary and am up to the beginning of March so far. It is quite amazing how Alix was sick nearly every day. If it wasn't her head it was her heart. Also how meticulously Olga records her mother's temperatures when she had fevers. I wonder what those heart ratings like #1, #2, #3 even mean. Maybe it's the severity of how she feels? It seems to be a ranking of some sort, perhaps the severity of the symptoms.

I really enjoy reading about her crushes, makes her seem more "real" and like any normal teenage girl. And I also like it how even at the age of 17 she enjoyed playing hide-and-seek and other childish (to our eyes) games. I think it's charming and shows her innocence. But I believe that at that time girls of her rank especially stayed childish longer than they do now, where by 17 a girl is into modern past-times like boyfriends, shopping, movies, etc. My mother went to Russia in the 1960's and was struck by how even older teenage girls wore large bows in their hair like little girls.

I thought 1911 was her first ball, at her coming out party in Livadia. But I guess that was a more intimate family and friends affair and the 1913 ball was her first state ball.

Finally, I was really surprised at her entry of February 15th when she states that Grigory (Rasputin) "kept patting Alexei on the head and said that I could rule like Tsarinas did in the past." Seems kind of insensitive to me, saying that right in front of the little boy! Almost insinuating that his sister could rule if something were to happen to him.

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 21, 2008, 08:30:54 AM
AK is a cossack officer i gather and NP is from the Standardt i guess.

Yes -- NP was Admiral Nikolai Pavlovich Sablin. Incidentally, Sablin deserted the imperial family after the abdication.


Finally, I was really surprised at her entry of February 15th when she states that Grigory (Rasputin) "kept patting Alexei on the head and said that I could rule like Tsarinas did in the past." Seems kind of insensitive to me, saying that right in front of the little boy! Almost insinuating that his sister could rule if something were to happen to him.

Wasn't that kooky?! Thanks for mentioning the date -- I'd forgotten to mark that passage and hadn't gotten around to hunting it down again.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: tian79 on October 22, 2008, 11:52:00 AM
I wonder who that AKSH fella was. Anyone know?
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 22, 2008, 01:43:47 PM
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D

Olga gives AKSH's birthdate as July 25. Does that match with Shvedov?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: koloagirl on October 22, 2008, 05:35:54 PM

Aloha all!

I can't wait to get this book (ordering it today actually!) - and I have read the "spoilers" here and don't mind at all - just makes me want to read it in full all the more!

I too am surprised by some of the things brought up by those who have read it - I always have pictured Olga as a introspective sort and the "deepest" (for want of a better word!) of the Grand Duchesses - but then again, this diary is only for one year and prior to the War - which in my
mind I think profoundly changed her (and probably her siblings as well) and she became not only more mature very quickly, but also cognizant of the IF's situation more than any of her sisters or brother.

I love that it seems to be more personal than Nicholas's diary (weather, food, not much else!) - and seems to reflect quite a bit of her personality.

Want it, need it - must have it!!!

Janet R.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 22, 2008, 06:19:43 PM
It's definitely a must-have if you're interested in OTMA.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: JBenjamin82 on October 23, 2008, 01:43:06 AM
I really enjoy reading about her crushes, makes her seem more "real" and like any normal teenage girl.

Me too. Some of the things she wrote made me smile/laugh.

Quote
And I also like it how even at the age of 17 she enjoyed playing hide-and-seek and other childish (to our eyes) games. I think it's charming and shows her innocence. But I believe that at that time girls of her rank especially stayed childish longer than they do now, where by 17 a girl is into modern past-times like boyfriends, shopping, movies, etc. My mother went to Russia in the 1960's and was struck by how even older teenage girls wore large bows in their hair like little girls.

In a way, reading her diary has made me understand what people meant when they referred to OTMA as being sort of childish compared to their peers. I don't think Olga came across as childish, per se, but she certainly was innocent and sort of simple (not in a bad way). Some people would say that to criticize her, but I honestly think it's endearing.

Quote
Finally, I was really surprised at her entry of February 15th when she states that Grigory (Rasputin) "kept patting Alexei on the head and said that I could rule like Tsarinas did in the past." Seems kind of insensitive to me, saying that right in front of the little boy! Almost insinuating that his sister could rule if something were to happen to him.

I know, right? I thought that seemed a bit odd and quite insensitive as well, to say the least. I hope it went over Alexei's head; I don't know, but I think it's wrong to say something like that in front of a child with a disability.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: JBenjamin82 on October 23, 2008, 01:46:36 AM
Does anyone know what Olga meant by "turnip applications"? I have no clue. LOL.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 23, 2008, 07:15:28 AM
Does anyone know what Olga meant by "turnip applications"? I have no clue. LOL.

Do you recall a date? I remember the phrase but not the context.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: tian79 on October 23, 2008, 12:55:51 PM
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D

Olga gives AKSH's birthdate as July 25. Does that match with Shvedov?

Unfortunately, I couldn't find Shvedov's birthdate. He is mentioned in "Royal Sisters of Mercy" but there aren't any entries by Olga on 25 July 1914-15-16.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: JBenjamin82 on October 24, 2008, 02:54:51 AM
Do you recall a date? I remember the phrase but not the context.

They may be in more entries, but looking again, I saw she said it on November 14th and December 1st.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: JBenjamin82 on October 24, 2008, 02:57:49 AM
On July 7th, Olga said that Voronov was "a bit sad. He enjoyed himself just a bit today, as he showed me just a tip of his pinky." I don't get it. What does that mean?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on October 24, 2008, 03:34:00 AM
I've got my copy yesterday and I love it.

I'm amazed how much she saw her aunts Olga and Xenia, her cousins, etc etc. Even a entry were her former aunt GD Victoria Melita is mentioned.

I think that the family saw eachother very often. I must not think about the idea that my aunts and cousins comes so often with every breakfast, tea parties and diners. Its nice that someone visits, but every day?

Ofcourse Royalty has different spare time then we do, but still. I love to get family members and friends over at my place, but I also like the company of my parents and sister alone and not with the entire family next to me.

Aunt Ella had more a life of her own, she is mentioned. But thinking that Ella was very busy with her charity as nun, you understand why she is not mentioned so often.

Her Grand Mother is also not mentioned many times or the Vladimirs.

But I must say: that I hope that ms Baker or someone else would publish the remaining diaries after 1913.

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: markjhnstn on October 24, 2008, 03:56:18 AM
On July 7th, Olga said that Voronov was "a bit sad. He enjoyed himself just a bit today, as he showed me just a tip of his pinky." I don't get it. What does that mean?

Pinky suggests to me the little finger on your hand. Maybe he was only giving half-hearted salutes or something like that. Maybe just the meaning is lost in translation or a phrase that only Olga would understand herself.

What were you thinking..............??????
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: JBenjamin82 on October 24, 2008, 04:33:51 AM
Pinky suggests to me the little finger on your hand. Maybe he was only giving half-hearted salutes or something like that. Maybe just the meaning is lost in translation or a phrase that only Olga would understand herself.

But what I don't get is what "just the tip of his pinky" has to do with his enjoying himself, though you're probably right in saying that the meaning may have been lost in translation or would have been something Olga would have known herself.

Quote
What were you thinking..............??????

Nothing, really. I have no clue what it means, and I don't even know where to start. LOL.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Condecontessa on October 25, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
I love the book. I'm glad that nothing was left out from the Grand Duchess's diary. I'm just disappointed to the fact that I didn't find any new rare pics. But I think because of the price of the book that it wasn't possible to publish new pics. Why is GARF so jealously protective of the last imperial family's albums and pics? Also, there was an entry where Olga's hair was washed with gasoline!!!! My mom said that was done in the old times to get rid of lice. :o
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on October 25, 2008, 08:54:39 PM
I would just like to thank you all (especially dear Sarushka) for your very thoughtful reviews. I think I'll buy the book now! :D
Is it only available through Gilbert's site?

I am hoping that one day maybe more of Olga's diaries through other years would come out, or perhaps Tatiana's! Like Sarushka said, it would be interesting to see the diaries from the war years, because of all the changes in the IF's lives (I'm particularly interested in the two eldest)..
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 25, 2008, 09:47:29 PM
You're welcome, Ferah.

To my knowledge, the book is only available through Gilbert's Royal Books in Canada and Van Hoogstraten in the Netherlands. (I suspect Van Hoogstraten is actually ordering through GRB.) GRB also sells their stock on eBay, but the price and shipping are identical to what he offers on his own site.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on October 26, 2008, 02:24:03 AM
Dear Ferah,

You can buy the book trough Van Hoogstraten in the Hague. They will be glad to help you.

Gerjo

PS By the way, the book is great. But I'm curious about the authors reason behind it, to publish the diary in the first place! What were her motives.

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on October 26, 2008, 03:09:16 AM
Thank you very much, Sarushka and Teddy, for your help!

Teddy, here is a quote from Raegan at the beginning of the thread, where she mentioned that she wanted to give people a glimpse into the Imperial Family's private, everyday life.

Marina Petrov is a professional translator I hired when I return to the United States after my first trip to Russia in 2005. During my first trip to GARF, I made copies of some of the family’s diaries and letters (as well as other documents) and came to the decision to publish Grand Duchess Olga’s 1913 diary in order to give people a glimpse into the private life of the family. After the translation of the diary was completed, I did the editing, wrote the introduction and included an explanation of the Russian calendar in 1913, as well as a list of people Olga wrote about in her diary and their relation to her.

I want to thank everyone who has sent me private messages of congratulations. I do apologize to the people I have not yet gotten back to. Life has been kind of hectic lately, so I am taking a much needed vacation soon. Also, thanks to the people who knew about this project of mine long before it was ever mentioned here on the forum. Your words of encouragement and interest in the book were so kind. Yes, that includes you Teddy! Thank you!

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarai on October 26, 2008, 07:45:28 AM
One reason is that Raegan wanted to clear up some misconceptions about the girls' lives, particularly the idea that they were very sheltered, never had much of a social life, and were closed up in their palaces all the time. As we can read from Olga's diary, she had a very active social life, visits from family, playing games with cousins, attending society events, etc. She was either out or had visitors every day.


PS By the way, the book is great. But I'm curious about the authors reason behind it, to publish the diary in the first place! What were her motives.

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarai on October 26, 2008, 07:49:32 AM
Yes, there is an entry on March 13th where she says that their hair was washed with gasoline and was later dry and sticking out everywhere LOL. I too was surprised at that! I agree the strong point of the book is definitely the text and not the pictures, but it was always meant that way anyway. I do hope more diaries are published in the future.


I love the book. I'm glad that nothing was left out from the Grand Duchess's diary. I'm just disappointed to the fact that I didn't find any new rare pics. But I think because of the price of the book that it wasn't possible to publish new pics. Why is GARF so jealously protective of the last imperial family's albums and pics? Also, there was an entry where Olga's hair was washed with gasoline!!!! My mom said that was done in the old times to get rid of lice. :o
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: markjhnstn on October 26, 2008, 07:56:09 AM
Yes, I hope more diaries become available. They really give us a window into their lives. The Olga of 1913 seems a more exuberant and bubbly persona than i would ever have thought before I read the diary.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 26, 2008, 08:06:28 AM
As we can read from Olga's diary, she had a very active social life, visits from family, playing games with cousins, attending society events, etc. She was either out or had visitors every day.

That's true, but I'd love to know even more about these visitors and acquaintances. How many of them were Olga's age? Sablin, for example, was 33. I believe Voronov was at least 10 years older than Olga. There are very few young women mentioned at all outside of her own cousins. Many of the people she lists as visitors to the palace and guests at meals were her father's aides-de-camp. Did she form any real relationships with the people she had tea and played games with at Olga Alexandrovna's, or were they basically occasional playmates?

So yes, Olga definitely had a lot more social activity than we're used to believing, but I'm still cautious about saying she had a well-rounded social life. The apparent lack of friendships with people her own age is still bothersome to me.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on October 26, 2008, 08:55:54 AM
I'm going to write to Gilbert Royal Books, to thank for the book and let him know that from my point of view, I think that many people would also buy all the other diaries if someone had to change to translate and publish them.

Maybe if more members of this board would write Gilbert, telling him the same, Raegan or someone else will go to publish the other diaries. Not only from Olga, but also of her siblings, father and mother, in the same form, ms Baker did.

So, who thinks that the diaries must be published: please write!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 26, 2008, 09:31:54 AM
I'm going to write to Gilbert Royal Books, to thank for the book and let him know that from my point of view, I think that many people would also buy all the other diaries if someone had to change to translate and publish them.

Maybe if more members of this board would write Gilbert, telling him the same, Raegan or someone else will go to publish the other diaries. Not only from Olga, but also of her siblings, father and mother, in the same form, ms Baker did.

So, who thinks that the diaries must be published: please write!

I think that's a great idea. After reading this edition, I know I'd LOVE to see the girls' later diaries in print, to learn how the war affected them.

If we can demonstrate there's a market for these books -- both by buying the 1913 edition and requesting further editions -- there's a fair chance Gilbert will consider printing more.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: rgt9w on October 26, 2008, 11:01:43 AM
Is the regimental church Olga refers to attending in the diary the Fyodorovsky Cathedral?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: tian79 on October 27, 2008, 02:51:04 AM
Does anyone know what Olga meant by "turnip applications"? I have no clue. LOL.
Could it be some kind of cure for her leg? Didn't she mention them after her fall? 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Rodney_G. on October 28, 2008, 06:29:23 PM
 Raegan Baker, I hope you're reading this thread. For every poster longing for the publication of more of the Grand Duchesses' diaries there are countless others who'd love to read/ and/or buy them. We can't pretend we're a vast mainstream audience whose purchases will make you rich but I hope we're numerous enough to make the translation and publication of more diaries worthwhile.(And surely our immense gratitude counts for something ;)
As for me, maybe Maria's 1912 diary? Any would actually be great.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on October 28, 2008, 06:47:56 PM
I agree with rodney, raegan.  I ordered olga's diary a few days ago and I will buy all of the others as they come into print also.  Your hard work is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on October 29, 2008, 02:14:36 AM
Like I said earlier, it would be fantastic to read other diaries. I believe that Raegan's choice of publishing Olga's 1913 diary was great, because it was the year before the lives of the Imperial Family changed greatly, the 300th anniversary of Romanov rule, and also Olga, who was the eldest and the most introspective. I am particularly interested in reading the 1914-onward diaries of Olga, and also of Tatiana (I admire her very much), to see particularly how much their lives changed and, hopefully, find out the girls' opinions. I've read some excerpts of their diaries throughout a lot of threads, and I'm interested to read more.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Elisabeth on October 29, 2008, 10:52:55 AM
As we can read from Olga's diary, she had a very active social life, visits from family, playing games with cousins, attending society events, etc. She was either out or had visitors every day.

That's true, but I'd love to know even more about these visitors and acquaintances. How many of them were Olga's age? Sablin, for example, was 33. I believe Voronov was at least 10 years older than Olga. There are very few young women mentioned at all outside of her own cousins. Many of the people she lists as visitors to the palace and guests at meals were her father's aides-de-camp. Did she form any real relationships with the people she had tea and played games with at Olga Alexandrovna's, or were they basically occasional playmates?

So yes, Olga definitely had a lot more social activity than we're used to believing, but I'm still cautious about saying she had a well-rounded social life. The apparent lack of friendships with people her own age is still bothersome to me.

I have to admit that for me, when I was reading Olga's 1913 diary, the whole issue of her and her sisters' so-called social isolation, which has been such a ubiquitous theme in recent historical works about the imperial family, seemed like a complete mischaracterization of their lives, in no small part because modern commentators read early 20th-century lives as if they should be late-20th century, early 21st-century lives. After all, by the standards of her day, the Grand Duchess Olga of the early 1910s had plenty of company, and an infinitely happier and more active social life than the overwhelming majority of her contemporaries. Let us recall that the idea of the "teenager" only really emerged in American culture of the 1950s. Prior to this, once you passed the age of fifteen or sixteen (depending on your social status, it was often quite younger), whether male or female, you were an adult for all intents and purposes, and expected to make your own way, or at the very least contribute to your family's economic welfare, either by work or by marriage or both. Most Russian and for that matter European "teenagers" of Olga's time did not lead such carefree lives as she did. And this general rule, that one owed to family and society what family and society dictated, was not only applied to the common masses, it affected the nobility as well.

So let's face it, Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna led an extremely pampered, sheltered, and yes, carefree life, up until the outbreak of the first world war. She was not under pressure to make an advantageous marriage. She had polite, non-threatening partners galore for her dances and silly card games (whether these men were thirty years old or her own age scarcely matters in terms of the fun quotient, in fact it seems to me the older the wiser and more gentlemanly), she went to the theater, opera, and ballet on a regular basis, she went on a special tour of much of the Russian empire during the tercentary of the Romanov dynasty, she attended endless balls, parties, teas, etc., etc., etc. She was hardly deprived! The whole notion that the daughters of Nicholas II and Alexandra were "isolated" and cut off from an "active social life" should be thoroughly discredited by the publication of this diary by Raegan Baker.

You might well ask, what struck me most about Olga's diary for 1913? Her exclamation, very early on, "I'm so happy!" That summed up the entire diary for me. Furthermore, this expression of happiness should, I think, be a great comfort to those of us who still retain fond feelings for Olga as an individual eventually caught up in and destroyed by historical events beyond her control. At least we can take consolation in the fact that prior to World War I, Olga Nikolaevna was a very happy and seemingly well-adjusted young woman, someone who took great pleasure in her life and in the ordinary pleasures of those around her.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 29, 2008, 01:25:10 PM
After all, by the standards of her day, the Grand Duchess Olga of the early 1910s had plenty of company, and an infinitely happier and more active social life than the overwhelming majority of her contemporaries. Let us recall that the idea of the "teenager" only really emerged in American culture of the 1950s. Prior to this, once you passed the age of fifteen or sixteen (depending on your social status, it was often quite younger), whether male or female, you were an adult for all intents and purposes, and expected to make your own way, or at the very least contribute to your family's economic welfare, either by work or by marriage or both. Most Russian and for that matter European "teenagers" of Olga's time did not lead such carefree lives as she did. And this general rule, that one owed to family and society what family and society dictated, was not only applied to the common masses, it affected the nobility as well.

Point well taken. Similarly, I'd like to know how the GDss social lives compared with other royal and noble young women of their era.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 29, 2008, 04:38:09 PM
So let's face it, Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna led an extremely pampered, sheltered, and yes, carefree life, up until the outbreak of the first world war. She was not under pressure to make an advantageous marriage. She had polite, non-threatening partners galore for her dances and silly card games (whether these men were thirty years old or her own age scarcely matters in terms of the fun quotient, in fact it seems to me the older the wiser and more gentlemanly), she went to the theater, opera, and ballet on a regular basis, she went on a special tour of much of the Russian empire during the tercentary of the Romanov dynasty, she attended endless balls, parties, teas, etc., etc., etc. She was hardly deprived! The whole notion that the daughters of Nicholas II and Alexandra were "isolated" and cut off from an "active social life" should be thoroughly discredited by the publication of this diary by Raegan Baker.

I agree to a certain degree -- the GDss were certainly not isolated, and there was plenty of social activity in their daily schedules. However, IMO sharing a meal or playing a game of cards with someone outside your own generation (be they older or younger) IS a significantly different experience from doing those same things with someone your own age.

I speak from some experience: I'm an only child. I grew up accustomed to and very comfortable with the company of adults. My family attended plays and movies, visited museums, and traveled out of state regularly. I enjoyed and participated in visits with my parents' friends. I had cousins my own age that I loved to play with every few weeks or months. Granted, I was shy, but you couldn't call me isolated. I also had a number friends of my own age outside of my family, and I can tell you that there is a different dynamic at work when you interact with peers. I can further tell you that when I was with my friends I sometimes felt a slight awareness of social inexperience that I didn't get among my cousins -- perhaps the shared culture of a family obliterates that among relatives. At any rate, outside of my family I had a sense that hanging out so much with grownups made me somewhat different -- mature in some ways yet immature in others -- and I suspect OTMA's upbringing had a similar effect.

Further, even as an adult most of my daily social interaction tends to be with people 10+ years older than I: parents, grandparents, neighbors, co-workers, customers, and so forth. I've continued to attend a regular number of cultural events. But of my three closest friends, two live out of state and the other is a 30-minute drive away. My point is that I am far from socially isolated or deprived and I still enjoy the company of my elders, yet I do feel the absence of my friends. Using my own circumstances as a springboard once again I would contend that Olga and her sisters likely felt that lack on some level as well. Even OTMA's contemporaries noticed; although Vyrubova acknowledges "I would not give the impression that these young daughters of the Emperor and Empress were forced to lead dull and uneventful lives" she also said of Tatiana, "[ s]he liked society and she longed pathetically for friends." I recall another courtier's memoir mentioning one of the Big Pair making fledgling attempts to cultivate friendships, but so far I can't remember the wording precisely enough to track it down.

In light of those small clues, I maintain that this lack of peers probably kept a facet of of social development from fully maturing in N&A's children. Again, I understand this type of social life may well have been the standard for young people of their rank, but usual or not, it was still not a fully rounded experience. In all honesty I doubt whether it troubled them deeply -- on the contrary I believe OTMA were generally quite happy, as Olga's 1913 diary plainly shows. Nevertheless I have a difficult time believing the children themselves were entirely oblivious to what they were missing.

In short, while I can certainly believe their social lives were contextually appropriate, it seems to me that OTMA's social *development* was perhaps incomplete in some ways.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Elisabeth on October 30, 2008, 07:09:58 AM
In short, while I can certainly believe their social lives were contextually appropriate, it seems to me that OTMA's social *development* was perhaps incomplete in some ways.

I don't entirely disagree with you, Sarushka; I think you're absolutely right that OTMA's "social *development* was perhaps incomplete." After all, we have an account from one courtier saying that even the eldest girls still talked like little children well into their teens. (But how exactly does such childishness fit in with their daily social interactions with much older adult courtiers and officers? Granted, maybe some of these adults had also led such sheltered and pampered lives that they acted and talked like children themselves - in my opinion, that's a definite possibility. When I think of the stupid practical jokes that Edward VII and Nicholas II and indeed their entire family were so fond of - it makes me cringe, it truly does, because it's all evidence of very juvenile tastes and behavior.)

And then there's Gilliard's statement that Olga was very intelligent but because of her social milieu, she never fulfilled her potential... I have to say that it has always seemed to me that if Olga had in fact been intellectual and studious by nature, her frivolous milieu would have exerted very little influence on her life, indeed, it would not have interfered significantly with her intellectual pursuits. Look at K.R., he grew up in the same milieu, when all's said and done! Yet he managed to read great literature and even attempt to write it himself... Or think of Grand Duke Nikolai Mikhailovich, a quite accomplished historian, and yet another living testament to the fact that imperial offspring were not sentenced to a life of frivolity in perpetuity but could actually make something of themselves if they were willing to do so. More names are occurring to me even as I write this - for example, Prince Vladimir Paley, Grand Duke Paul Aleksandrovich's son, who became a not inconsequential poet while still in the first flush of youth... there's actually rather a long list of Romanov intellectual over-achievers, even in the reign of Nicholas II alone (when supposedly the entire imperial family got a lot stupider by previous standards). But apparently even in their last halcyon days of power, the Romanovs were still a family that managed to embrace every degree of intelligence, from the highest to the lowest!

Granted, in this historical period there were much lower expectations for females, but it still seems to me that Olga, if she'd been so inclined, could have found time to read more serious, intellectually challenging books, and to comment on them in her diary or at the very least to her tutor, Pierre Gilliard.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 30, 2008, 08:50:32 AM
But how exactly does such childishness fit in with their daily social interactions with much older adult courtiers and officers?

That's a good question. From what I've seen and experienced, kids who spend a lot of time with adults (homeschooled children, only children, etc.) are simultaneously mature and immature. With adults they can be completely decorus and carry on thoughtful conversations, yet at the same time they're equally capable of romping like youngsters among people they're comfortable with -- regardless of their companions' age. It's the middle ground that's so noticeably lacking.

What I've read of the imperial children seems to fit this pattern. They were charming and adept in formal situations, but oddly childish amongst themselves or their familiar retinue.

Incidentally, I can't help wondering if Aleksei's regular exposure to young cadets and the Derevenko and Sednev boys made him any more "normal" than his sisters?

Quote
Granted, maybe some of these adults had also led such sheltered and pampered lives that they acted and talked like children themselves - in my opinion, that's a definite possibility. When I think of the stupid practical jokes that Edward VII and Nicholas II and indeed their entire family were so fond of - it makes me cringe, it truly does, because it's all evidence of very juvenile tastes and behavior.

I agree. Or perhaps being invited by the tsar's sister to amuse the tsar's daughters means you don't question the infantile nature of the afternoon's diversions -- you just play along. Perhaps a combination of both is at play.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarai on October 30, 2008, 12:57:01 PM
Sarah, I totally get where you're coming from as an only child. I am an only child myself and so is my mother. I was also shy as a child and didn't have many friends, just a few at a time. I did spend most of my time around adults and always felt more comfortable around older people than around my own peers, and I still feel this way. I always felt more serious, mature, and older than my peers. But yes we can also be immature in our social development and interaction with other young people. My mother was even more sheltered and over-protected as a child than I was and even at the age of 61 still has some immature tendencies.

As a side note, I rather like reading about the family's practical jokes and jovial nature. Yet another thing that makes them seem more "real" and down-to-earth, not some stuffy pompous figures who are above having innocent fun. Maybe because I am the same way, I enjoy juvenile humor and I fully admit it :D
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Rodney_G. on October 30, 2008, 06:47:51 PM
As we can read from Olga's diary, she had a very active social life, visits from family, playing games with cousins, attending society events, etc. She was either out or had visitors every day.

That's true, but I'd love to know even more about these visitors and acquaintances. How many of them were Olga's age? Sablin, for example, was 33. I believe Voronov was at least 10 years older than Olga. There are very few young women mentioned at all outside of her own cousins. Many of the people she lists as visitors to the palace and guests at meals were her father's aides-de-camp. Did she form any real relationships with the people she had tea and played games with at Olga Alexandrovna's, or were they basically occasional playmates?

So yes, Olga definitely had a lot more social activity than we're used to believing, but I'm still cautious about saying she had a well-rounded social life. The apparent lack of friendships with people her own age is still bothersome to me.

I have to admit that for me, when I was reading Olga's 1913 diary, the whole issue of her and her sisters' so-called social isolation, which has been such a ubiquitous theme in recent historical works about the imperial family, seemed like a complete mischaracterization of their lives, in no small part because modern commentators read early 20th-century lives as if they should be late-20th century, early 21st-century lives. After all, by the standards of her day, the Grand Duchess Olga of the early 1910s had plenty of company, and an infinitely happier and more active social life than the overwhelming majority of her contemporaries. Let us recall that the idea of the "teenager" only really emerged in American culture of the 1950s. Prior to this, once you passed the age of fifteen or sixteen (depending on your social status, it was often quite younger), whether male or female, you were an adult for all intents and purposes, and expected to make your own way, or at the very least contribute to your family's economic welfare, either by work or by marriage or both. Most Russian and for that matter European "teenagers" of Olga's time did not lead such carefree lives as she did. And this general rule, that one owed to family and society what family and society dictated, was not only applied to the common masses, it affected the nobility as well.

So let's face it, Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna led an extremely pampered, sheltered, and yes, carefree life, up until the outbreak of the first world war. She was not under pressure to make an advantageous marriage. She had polite, non-threatening partners galore for her dances and silly card games (whether these men were thirty years old or her own age scarcely matters in terms of the fun quotient, in fact it seems to me the older the wiser and more gentlemanly), she went to the theater, opera, and ballet on a regular basis, she went on a special tour of much of the Russian empire during the tercentary of the Romanov dynasty, she attended endless balls, parties, teas, etc., etc., etc. She was hardly deprived! The whole notion that the daughters of Nicholas II and Alexandra were "isolated" and cut off from an "active social life" should be thoroughly discredited by the publication of this diary by Raegan Baker.

You might well ask, what struck me most about Olga's diary for 1913? Her exclamation, very early on, "I'm so happy!" That summed up the entire diary for me. Furthermore, this expression of happiness should, I think, be a great comfort to those of us who still retain fond feelings for Olga as an individual eventually caught up in and destroyed by historical events beyond her control. At least we can take consolation in the fact that prior to World War I, Olga Nikolaevna was a very happy and seemingly well-adjusted young woman, someone who took great pleasure in her life and in the ordinary pleasures of those around her.

This is a reply to Elisabeth's last paragraph("You might well..).I am indeed one of those who take great com fort from the diary and from Elisabeth's observation about Olga's happiness. It is because of my fond feelings for Olga even now that it is heartening to be reminded that Olga wasn't always
the demoralised young woman she appears to have become in her last years.That latter impression has tended to overly color my image of her though I know the joyful spirited younger Olga from so many acounts of her, especially Margaret Eagar's recollections.
So it's a pleasure to see that photo of a smiling Olga with her friend Rita Khitrovo on a beach somewhere in her later years.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on October 30, 2008, 09:04:36 PM
It is fair to say that, had not the war and revolution happened, Olga would have had a very pleasing and fulfilling life in spite of any social isolation that did or did not happen.  None of us know what life has in store for us and the fact that she thoroughly enjoyed the "good years" is gratifying to all of us.  BUT.....the fact that she and all of her sisters and brother handled themselves admirably through all of the hardships of the years 1914-18 speaks far more volumes.  The war years and their exile would have destroyed most "immature" people.......but they all measured up and met their fates with acceptance, faith, and a collective strength that I am sure we all wish we had.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: koloagirl on October 31, 2008, 01:15:22 AM

Aloha all!

I just received my copy in the mail today and am already halfway thru it!  And I have been surprised by the same things that Sarushka and others already brought up about some of the diary entries. 

SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!

I cannot believe how often "Mama" was ill with headache, tired, #1, #1 1/2 or #2 heart (whatever that is it sounds horrid) - I think I have read where she was up and about twice - only to take to her bed the following day
from the exertion!   It is truly every single entry so far that I have read.

One entry mentions "Mama" visiting Alexei's room and noting what a very long time it had been since she had been there!  That is definitely a surprise for me - I thought that Alexandra spent a good deal of time with Alexei!

The boundless patience and love that Olga exhibits for her "Angel Mama" and thanks God when she has had a good day.  I always read where Olga was a little tempermental when it came to Alex, but it doesn't appear so far!

The amount of time Olga spends with "Papa" - mostly outside in some form of exercise - those girls were certainly in good shape physically! 

I also love her references to "Sweetheart Aunt Olga" - so wonderful to know that she had such a loving relative closeby that would set up these little parties for her - and wonderful to know that Olga N. had such a wonderful time!

Maybe foolish question - who is "Aunt Minnie?"  And "Trina" I'm assuming is a governess or lady-in-waiting of some sort.

The amount of time Anya V. spends with the family - not only Alix, but all of them.

Okay - all for now - back to finishing it up!  I'll be sorry to get through it I know!

Malama Pono,
Janet R.



Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on October 31, 2008, 02:26:12 AM
May I ask how long it took for you to get your copy?  I am still waiting on mine.......and so impatiently!!!! 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: tian79 on October 31, 2008, 05:16:16 AM
Maybe foolish question - who is "Aunt Minnie?"  And "Trina" I'm assuming is a governess or lady-in-waiting of some sort.
Aunt Minnie is Grand Duchess Maria Georgievna (married to Grand Duke Georgi Mihailovits) and Trina is Yekaterina Schneider, lectrice to the Empress.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 31, 2008, 08:07:47 AM
And "Aunt Mops"?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: tian79 on October 31, 2008, 08:17:24 AM
And "Aunt Mops"?
Nicholas mentions her in his diary as aunt Yevgenia, but I don’t know who she is.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: koloagirl on November 01, 2008, 01:34:13 AM

Aloha all!

Thank you for the identifications!  I too would like to know who "Aunt Mops" is though!  Such great nicknames they had!

It took about 1 week for me to get my copy from the time I ordered it online - very, very quick for shipping to Hawai'i!

Malama Pono,
Janet R.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: rgt9w on November 01, 2008, 10:07:39 AM
Some of the  observations I came away with after reading the diary:

Olga actually saw her grandmother, the Dowager Empress, more frequently than I thought she would have. I always had the impression the girls were mostly at Tsarskoye Selo. I was surprised how often they traveled into St. Petersburg and how ofen Olga saw her aunts as well. I always thought the other members of Imperial Family stayed away and rarely saw the girls.

I found the notations of N. Kulikovsy being present at Aunt Olga's of interest. I wonder if Olga N. knew her aunt was having a discreet affair him. Olga A. married him during the tumult of WWI.

I too was astounded at how "sick" Alexandra was. It must have been very trying and dismal to be around her when she is ill virtually every day. It makes me wonder how much was physical versus psychological. I've also often wondered if Alexandra had some sort of heart arrhythmia that caused her to have frequent palpitations or runs of tachycardia where her heart races at times or whether she had panic attacks that caused her to have these physical symptoms. Perhaps the numbering system is related to how frequently she was having episodes of chest discomfort. Just a thought.

I used the list of names in "The Complete Wartime Correspondence of Nicholas and Alexandra" by Fuhrmann to help identify some of the people in the diary such as Sablin, M. Schneider, etc..
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Joanna on November 01, 2008, 08:14:25 PM
And "Aunt Mops"?
Nicholas mentions her in his diary as aunt Yevgenia, but I don’t know who she is.

Aunt Mops is as tian quotes Aunt Eugenia who was Eugenia Maximilianovna, Duchess of Leuchtenberg. She was the wife of Prince Alexander Oldenburg and the mother of Prince Peter, husband of GD Olga Alexandrovna.

On page 3 January 2 diary entry there is the reference "...We walked around the garden and then in Tablov..." Tablov is replicated in later entries and should be Babolov. Babolovsky Park is located on the western edge of Tsarskoe Selo north of the Sofia area and Nicholas II often took solitary walks there as the long distance paths satisfied his craving for exercise.

Joanna

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on November 07, 2008, 06:21:47 PM
I just sent an email to Gilbert asking him about possible releases of Olga's wartime diaries, and also of Tatiana's 1913 diary and a full volume of her wartime diaries.

The reason why I ask about Olga's wartime diaries is that I've read that the war had greatly affected her, and reading her perspectives throughout those years would be a great source. I asked about Tatiana's 1913 diary and her wartime diaries, because I would simply also like to read her perspectives, mostly because I find her to be enigmatic and also very admirable.

Both girls became nurses, so I wouldn't mind reading about their experiences, and also to see how much their lives changed once the war began (I am wishing for two separate volumes of Olga's and Tatiana's diaries).
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: rgt9w on November 07, 2008, 07:27:41 PM
I recently asked Mr. Gilbert about publishing further diaries. He stated he has no plans to publish other diaries at this time.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on November 08, 2008, 04:43:27 PM
I received my copy a few days ago and have a hard time putting it down.  New question..........why does Olga put a person's name at the beginning of some of the entries?  The name is usually right before the date.





















Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Suzanne on November 08, 2008, 05:58:44 PM
I have not yet read the book so this may not be correct but is it possible that the name corresponds with the Saint's Day. Another possibility is that the names represent birthdays - Alexandra began diary entries with references to friends and relatives who had birthdays that day.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 08, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
I received my copy a few days ago and have a hard time putting it down.  New question..........why does Olga put a person's name at the beginning of some of the entries?  The name is usually right before the date.

I believe those are names of people who visited or dined with the tsar on that date. Some of them were aides de camp.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 09, 2008, 01:38:25 PM
For those of you interested in further publication of diaries - if GARF and a translator are willing, the Alexander Palace Time Machine is agreeable to posting these materials on its website for the continued free use of those interested.I know finances are often a reason for not publishing more materials.

I understand why Anastasia burned her diaries in Tobolsk. She probably had a moment of clarity that if she did not destroy them that her father's enemies would gain control of them and possibly use them to either embarrass him or to simply publish them and violate her privacy. I would love to have read her diaries, make no mistake, but I understand what this young woman did and possibly why.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 09, 2008, 02:18:49 PM
that would be just terrific Lisa!

You may be right about Anastasia´s diaries. To me (as to a teenage girl) also seems, she and Maria simply didn´t want their diaries to be read by anyone. After all, they were both in the age when you really start to grasp the world around you, perhaps they wrote down some very personal things and ideas.... And decided that it all would be kept personal....
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on November 09, 2008, 02:27:06 PM
that would be just terrific Lisa!

You may be right about Anastasia´s diaries. To me (as to a teenage girl) also seems, she and Maria simply didn´t want their diaries to be read by anyone. After all, they were both in the age when you really start to grasp the world around you, perhaps they wrote down some very personal things and ideas.... And decided that it all would be kept personal....

I don't think the GARF is willing to give these diaries to be published on a website at all. And if they are translated then the next step is to be published in bookform. Such as "A LongLife Passion" which is from his directors.

And because many books are published online on this site, it didn't stop me, for not having these books on my shelf myself.

Maybe we can pay the GARF for publishing the other diaries. A small contribution from all who loved the first volume, is not a bad idea.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on November 09, 2008, 03:54:31 PM
That is great idea!
I would love if I read OTM's diaries. But, remember they were Grand Duchesses, maybe the most popular girls in Russia in early 20th century, and their everyday and private life they 'put' in diaries. So, I think some their private things shouldn't be published. Just IMO. ;) And I agree with Lisa  about Anastasia's diaries. And maybe she knew she would make more legends about her...? Wonder if all their diaries they took with them to Tobolsk? Why did not Maria burn all of them -- three are saved...
btw, I considered Empres Alexandra started his entries with birthdays, for example, their last day began as "23th Birthday of Irina..." - if I remember correct. And I would love how GDs knew dates of births of officers...I mean, did they write dates in notebook, or?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on November 09, 2008, 06:26:02 PM
Teddy, referencing your post #97:  I absolutely agree with your notion that GARF would not be willing to "give"  the remaining diaries, including the Heir's (a single volume of which I have personally seen a few years ago), to be FREELY published on a website. Realistically, as to asking for contributions from, let us say, those who own or have even heard of this first volume, I think that would produce very, very little in the way of fiscal bargaining/leverage. "Lip service" versus commitment is usually most telling.  Parenthetically, does anyone have the number of copies initially published of this book of this thread AND how many have been actually sold to date?    AP
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 09, 2008, 07:00:12 PM
btw, I considered Empres Alexandra started his entries with birthdays, for example, their last day began as "23th Birthday of Irina..." - if I remember correct. And I would love how GDs knew dates of births of officers...I mean, did they write dates in notebook, or?

In Olga's diary, the names at the beginning of each entry can't be birth dates because many of the names are repeated throughout the year on different dates. They're just the day's visitors. Also, during the family's holidays on Standart and in Livadia, the notations virtually disappear.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on November 10, 2008, 03:51:12 AM
I mean in Alexandra's diary. Voeikov mentioned OTMA loved to talk with offcers about their names, birthdays, and oftenly OTMA played themselves who will better say the name. Olga Nicholaievna wanted that all names of not Russian people to be translated into Russian.  ;)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 10, 2008, 05:41:48 PM
One reason why copyright holders are willing to have us publish their books on the web is that we have promised our site will remain free. Many people do not have access to large metropolitan or university libraries as we do so we are a source for all, regardless of where a person lives or their financial circumstances.

For that reason, I'm not sure that we would solicit donations from you either. I can understand the GARF wanting to make money where they can, but Bob, Rob and I are strongly committed to keeping the APTM non-commercial for a variety of reasons and I don't see this changing.

Nice idea to have them here, though.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: imperial angel on November 11, 2008, 12:35:12 AM
I haven't read this yet, but would be interested in doing so. I'm just glad it got published, and thank those whose hard work resulted in that. I thought the perspectives on the girls social lives (or lack thereof) interesting. In my opinion, they had the normal social lives of young royals of that time- pretty much, but the war did interupt that.I think it is easy to see it from a modern perspective, but royalty had lives that were more apart then, and also young women in general not just royalty were '' childish'' longer than today, and had different social lives than we today would consider a social life. Young women took longer to grow up then in some ways. Royals lived their lives around family, and people were either of their rank or not so far from it, or who had positions that brought them into contact with them (such as the sailors on the standart, soldiers, etc).  To us, I agree their social life looks lacking, and by modern standards was.

The people they would have been around later on had the dynasty continued would have been people perhaps not so much peers as people suitable for their rank and status, although, indeed, there were many people who were their peers of suitable rank and status.  They lived in an class structured society, not so much age structured. American society today is so age structured. I agree that OTMA were lonely at times, royalty often was- but they did have some social life, they weren't just locked up with their parents and siblings. I do agree we need to know more about what other young women of their comparable rank and status had as social lives- that might make a good thread. I grew up very much in the company of adults as well, was the oldest child. It does make you more serious and thoughtful- maybe it is no coincidence so many of us on this thread grew up that way. I just relate more to older people than people my own age still, not having grown up with peers, I was homeschooled part of my childhood.  I still don't really get on with people my own age. I don't feel I miss out though. My best friend and closest friend is 40 and we met on here. I'm 22. I don't think I could find what I have with her with someone my own age. Just my perspective.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on November 11, 2008, 01:00:30 AM
What is Olga talking about when she says they did "giant-strides"?  It is something that they did when they went ashore during the Standardt cruise.  So far I am struck by the simplicity of her and her sisters' lives.  Their idea of fun was to go for long walks, pick flowers, just sit and talk, maybe play tennis.........oh, and walk on stilts and do "giant-strides"!  I can't imagine young people of today, royal or not, being so tame.  It makes me nostalgic.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 11, 2008, 02:00:07 AM
What is Olga talking about when she says they did "giant-strides"?  It is something that they did when they went ashore during the Standardt cruise.  So far I am struck by the simplicity of her and her sisters' lives.  Their idea of fun was to go for long walks, pick flowers, just sit and talk, maybe play tennis.........oh, and walk on stilts and do "giant-strides"!  I can't imagine young people of today, royal or not, being so tame.  It makes me nostalgic.

Well, and what else would fun be in that time? No TV, no computers, no fit-nes centre.... And when four sisters go to pick flowers, it can be enormous fun :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on November 11, 2008, 04:22:19 AM
Sometimes simple things do turn out to be a lot of fun! :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 11, 2008, 09:16:15 AM
I'm pretty sure Nicholas & Ella are preparing to play Giant Strides in this photo:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/AIII/th_Courting-Group1.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/AIII/?action=view&current=Courting-Group1.jpg)

The idea is to run around the pole in the sling until you're barely touching the ground. The momentum of the sling carries you between strides, so you can take giant, flying leaps.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on November 11, 2008, 05:52:46 PM
Thanks Sarushka.  That looks like great fun.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Raegan on November 24, 2008, 08:25:22 AM
Amazing how a thread can grow so much! I have received emails from friends informing me that people have questions about the other diaries, so I will quickly answer a few questions. Here goes……

Raegan Baker, I hope you're reading this thread. For every poster longing for the publication of more of the Grand Duchesses' diaries there are countless others who'd love to read/ and/or buy them. We can't pretend we're a vast mainstream audience whose purchases will make you rich but I hope we're numerous enough to make the translation and publication of more diaries worthwhile.(And surely our immense gratitude counts for something ;)

Thanks Rodney. I am actually working on a second book with a close friend. I believe I have mentioned this book on another thread. Instead of doing another uncut year of one of Grand Duchess Olga's diaries, we are selecting certain diary entries from 1913 to 1917. We will probably be finished with it in a few months.

I agree with rodney, raegan.  I ordered olga's diary a few days ago and I will buy all of the others as they come into print also.  Your hard work is greatly appreciated.

Thank you. Carkuczyn, your kind words are greatly appreciated.

The boundless patience and love that Olga exhibits for her "Angel Mama" and thanks God when she has had a good day.  I always read where Olga was a little tempermental when it came to Alex, but it doesn't appear so far!

Yes, Olga wrote very lovingly of Alexandra.

I don't think the GARF is willing to give these diaries to be published on a website at all.

Hi Teddy! Having researched at GARF many times, plus having attended a meeting with Sergei Mironenko (GARF Director and editor of A Lifelong Passion) and Vladimir Kozlov (Deputy Director of GARF and editor of The Last Diary of Tsaritsa Alexandra) I can pretty much guarantee that they would never just hand over the diaries for a website. The very idea is almost laughable. Copyright is not cheap, if it is granted at all. GARF is very protective of the material relating to Tsar Nicholas II and his family.

I’m glad everyone has enjoyed the diary so much. I hope everyone in the U.S. has a wonderful Thanksgiving. Take care.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on November 24, 2008, 10:15:50 AM
Reagan,

You must know, that this was such a wonderfull read. I truly admire your work. And I hope like so many others that one day other diaries would be published of the Romanovs. It was the biggest gift of the year. To share with us the world of the oldest daughter of the last Tsar.

I hope Reagan that you or someone else will publish the other diaries.

Gerjo
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on November 24, 2008, 10:47:56 PM
Dear Raegan, will this second book be of only Olga Nikolaevna or all the grand duchesses?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Raegan on December 17, 2008, 02:34:37 PM
Reagan,

You must know, that this was such a wonderfull read. I truly admire your work. And I hope like so many others that one day other diaries would be published of the Romanovs. It was the biggest gift of the year.

Wow, that's flattering. Thanks Teddy.

Dear Raegan, will this second book be of only Olga Nikolaevna or all the grand duchesses?

Hi Ferah, that is something we are still thinking over. Everything is kind of coming together now, and we are sorting through material and deciding which route to take. It started out being all about Olga, but that might change. I hope to know for certain by early 2009.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: markjhnstn on December 18, 2008, 01:18:33 PM
Looking forward to next year!!!!!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: jgutmaker on December 23, 2008, 06:58:42 PM
I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread, as I had no idea Olga's diary for 1913 was being published. Wonderful news! I'm looking forward to reading it.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Lalee on December 23, 2008, 11:31:48 PM


Hi Ferah, that is something we are still thinking over. Everything is kind of coming together now, and we are sorting through material and deciding which route to take. It started out being all about Olga, but that might change. I hope to know for certain by early 2009.

Thanks, Raegan! I look forward to hearing the exciting news by next year too!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Holly on December 24, 2008, 12:23:25 AM
I got the book today as an early Christmas gift from my father and I've finished it today as well. It was a great, interesting read.
Thank you very much, Raegan, for all the hard work you put into Olga's 1913 diary and the work you're doing presently which I'm sure will be just as (or more) wonderful.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Raegan on December 26, 2008, 02:33:01 PM
I got the book today as an early Christmas gift from my father and I've finished it today as well. It was a great, interesting read.

You must have liked it to have finished it so quickly. ;-)
 
Thank you very much, Raegan, for all the hard work you put into Olga's 1913 diary and the work you're doing presently which I'm sure will be just as (or more) wonderful.

Thank you, Holly, for your kind words.

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas. Hopefully next time I stop by the forum I will be able to give some more information about the upcoming book. Take care. 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on December 26, 2008, 07:21:20 PM
How long was it? I'm thinking of buying it whenever it comes available on Amazon.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on December 26, 2008, 08:32:54 PM
How long was it? I'm thinking of buying it whenever it comes available on Amazon.

Do you mean how many pages? 172.

I'm not sure if it'll be available on Amazon. Gilbert's Royal Books sometimes sells on eBay, but I don't recall ever seeing his stock on Amazon.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on December 27, 2008, 07:38:18 PM
Sometimes people will sell their own stuff on Amazon. But if it doesn't go up, I'll order it from GRB's site.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Marlene on January 05, 2009, 02:58:28 PM
Only if the book is available through Amazon -- and Paul has never made an arrangement with Amazon.
Sometimes people will sell their own stuff on Amazon. But if it doesn't go up, I'll order it from GRB's site.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: tian79 on January 10, 2009, 03:33:17 AM
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D

Olga gives AKSH's birthdate as July 25. Does that match with Shvedov?

Found Shvedov's birthdate, he was born July 25 1888.
Also I managed to connect names with faces:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/th_group1916.jpg) (http://s424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/?action=view&current=group1916.jpg)
Olga mentions Skvortsov, Shvedov and Zborovsky at least on April 17 and 21. Skvortsov and Shvedov seem to have been regular visitors at Aunt Olga's.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on January 10, 2009, 06:49:51 AM
Very cool!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on January 12, 2009, 08:32:08 AM
Dear Raegan, will this second book be of only Olga Nikolaevna or all the grand duchesses?

Hi Ferah, that is something we are still thinking over. Everything is kind of coming together now, and we are sorting through material and deciding which route to take. It started out being all about Olga, but that might change. I hope to know for certain by early 2009.

We are now leaning more towards it being just Olga's diaries, but we also plan on including things that may help dispel some myths that are floating around about the family's dynamics, etc.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Raegan on January 12, 2009, 03:17:45 PM
I have to admit that for me, when I was reading Olga's 1913 diary, the whole issue of her and her sisters' so-called social isolation, which has been such a ubiquitous theme in recent historical works about the imperial family, seemed like a complete mischaracterization of their lives, in no small part because modern commentators read early 20th-century lives as if they should be late-20th century, early 21st-century lives.

Exactly.

The whole notion that the daughters of Nicholas II and Alexandra were "isolated" and cut off from an "active social life" should be thoroughly discredited by the publication of this diary by Raegan Baker.

Thanks Elisabeth.

I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread, as I had no idea Olga's diary for 1913 was being published. Wonderful news! I'm looking forward to reading it.

I missed this post before, but thanks for your interest.

We are now leaning more towards it being just Olga's diaries, but we also plan on including things that may help dispel some myths that are floating around about the family's dynamics, etc.

Yes, we agreed that this was the best path to follow.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on January 12, 2009, 04:21:56 PM
Everything is kind of coming together now, and we are sorting through material and deciding which route to take. It started out being all about Olga, but that might change. I hope to know for certain by early 2009.

We are now leaning more towards it being just Olga's diaries, but we also plan on including things that may help dispel some myths that are floating around about the family's dynamics, etc.

Will these be different diary entries than those in Royal Sisters of Mercy (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64)?

I would definitely welcome new primary sources related to the family's dynamic. In particular, one of my frustrations with FOTR had to do with their portrayal of Maria's feelings about her position in the family (prior to the abdication and exile and the alleged incident with a guard in Ekaterinburg). K&W presented a compelling example to suggest Maria harbored feelings of insecurity, but IMO that wasn't sufficient evidence to indicate a long-term, habitual pattern of such strong emotions. More context would certainly help untangle these issues.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Rodney_G. on January 12, 2009, 05:01:51 PM
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D

Olga gives AKSH's birthdate as July 25. Does that match with Shvedov?

Found Shvedov's birthdate, he was born July 25 1888.
Also I managed to connect names with faces:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/th_group1916.jpg) (http://s424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/?action=view&current=group1916.jpg)
Olga mentions Skvortsov, Shvedov and Zborovsky at least on April 17 and 21. Skvortsov and Shvedov seem to have been regular visitors at Aunt Olga's.


tian79, you may be a genius; at the very least you'd have a bright career as a detective.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: aniram on January 12, 2009, 11:17:35 PM
Hi Reagan,

This is Marina Petrov, the translator of the diaries. I am glad you could use my modest efforts on decyphering the diaries. The book seems to be quite a success among the last Romanov Royal family followers. I had no idea there are so many! It makes me happy that all the countless hours spent trying to read Olga's far from perfect handwriting (and sometimes syntax!) were not in vain :) Looks like the readers aren't bored by numerous tennis records and weather reports :)

I really had no idea that the book was being planned since I was commissioned through my friend's translation agency and she told me that the translation was needed for research. I came across the link to this forum on google, quite by chance, so I registered in hopes to get in touch with you.

Can I list this publication in my resume? Please feel free to contact me directly with any questions at marina.petrov@comcast.net. Congratulations on this publication!

Marina
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Raegan on January 13, 2009, 08:19:00 AM
Hi Reagan,

This is Marina Petrov, the translator of the diaries. I am glad you could use my modest efforts on decyphering the diaries. The book seems to be quite a success among the last Romanov Royal family followers. I had no idea there are so many! It makes me happy that all the countless hours spent trying to read Olga's far from perfect handwriting (and sometimes syntax!) were not in vain :) Looks like the readers aren't bored by numerous tennis records and weather reports :)

I really had no idea that the book was being planned since I was commissioned through my friend's translation agency and she told me that the translation was needed for research. I came across the link to this forum on google, quite by chance, so I registered in hopes to get in touch with you.

Can I list this publication in my resume? Please feel free to contact me directly with any questions at marina.petrov@comcast.net. Congratulations on this publication!

Marina

Marina, so good to hear from you! I'm so glad you have given me a way to contact you since it has been so long since this project started. Of course you can use this in your resume. I am going to send you an email because there is much more I want to discuss with you. Everyone should thank you for doing such an amazing job on the translation of this diary.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: markjhnstn on January 14, 2009, 03:26:02 AM
Hi Marina,
              We are all extremely grateful for all your hard work and long hours spent in translating Olga's diaries.

              You have friends for life here now!!!!

              Many, many thanks.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarai on January 14, 2009, 08:26:12 AM
Marina, so good to hear from you! I'm so glad you have given me a way to contact you since it has been so long since this project started. Of course you can use this in your resume. I am going to send you an email because there is much more I want to discuss with you. Everyone should thank you for doing such an amazing job on the translation of this diary.

Indeed, thank you very much Marina for your hard work!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on March 21, 2009, 08:08:48 PM

Also I managed to connect names with faces:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/th_group1916.jpg) (http://s424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/?action=view&current=group1916.jpg)
Olga mentions Skvortsov, Shvedov and Zborovsky at least on April 17 and 21. Skvortsov and Shvedov seem to have been regular visitors at Aunt Olga's.


Accroding to Russian site, :

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/th_74.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Stavka%20u%20Mogiljevu/?action=view&current=74.jpg)

Государь Император, Наследник Цесаревич и Великие Княжны (слева направо) Анастасия, Ольга, Татьяна и Мария на празднике Собственного Е.И.В. Конвоя с офицерами (слева направо): Е.Д. Шкуропатским, Ф.М. Киреевым, М.И. Свидиным, М.А. Скворцовым, гр. А.Н. Граббе, И.А. Ветром, Г.А. Рашпилем, А.К. Шведовым, С.Г. Лавровым, В.Э. Зборовским, Н.В. Галушкиным, А.А. Грамотиным, П.Г. Ергушевым. Царская Ставка, 4 октября 1916 г.


So, from L to R: persons, oficers,generals labeled.  E.D. Shkuropatski, F.M. Kireev, M.I.Svidin, M.A. Skvortsov, general A.N. Grabbe, I.A.Vetor, G.A. Rashpil, A.K.Shvedov, S.G.Lavrov,V.E. Zborovski, N.V.Galushkin, A.A. Gramotin, P.G. Ergushev, Tsarist Stavka, October 4th, 1916.   

We finally know all names of people there.  ;-)



Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on March 22, 2009, 01:19:24 PM
Quote
The idea is to run around the pole in the sling until you're barely touching the ground. The momentum of the sling carries you between strides, so you can take giant, flying leaps.

Ahh, I've wondered what they were doing. It looks like it would be easy to slam into the pole.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on March 23, 2009, 03:12:20 PM
It is topic - off, but I found daughter of Mikhail Svidin, who is presented in that 1916 photo alive.

Look:

http://smena.ru/news/2003/12/23/1677/
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Grand Duchess Ferah on March 24, 2009, 05:10:12 AM
I have waited a long time to finally receive this book , and have already read it. I want to deeply thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for their efforts in releasing Olga 's diary.

The diary itself I found, at the same time , to be exciting and dull. Almost everyday passes the same ; Olga always mentions Alexandra's health state, there are a whole heap of tennis match scores and she writes affectionately of the few officers she was infatuated with during the year, as well as her mother and Aunt Olga. Like Sarushka also said before , I noticed and was surprised at how rarely Olga mentions her younger siblings.

I also was thinking about Olga 's character and personality. I don 't really think her 1913 diary gives us an in-depth look at her personality, but I didn`t mind that much at all. Despite that I thought the diary was somewhat boring , at the same time I found it quite suspenseful and engrossing , as it is exciting to finally have access to a volume of Olga Nikolaevna's diary and read her perspective of things. In my opinion, it may be the best -  or at least one of the best - books of gaining a helpful, thorough insight to the daily life of the Imperial Family.

I really am looking forward to and am extremely excited about the future books of Olga Nikolaevna in the future. 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Rodion_Felix on October 27, 2009, 09:04:13 AM
Is this a book worth having ?


Would you recommend it ?

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on October 27, 2009, 10:45:30 AM
Is this a book worth having ?


Would you recommend it ?



I am reading it now and I would say indeed, yes. At first it can seem a disappointingly simple record of who was at meals / tea , how tired Alexandra is ( always) ,thier walks and  where they went etc. While we see a diary  as a "tell all " document, I believe Olga was taught that  the purpose of a diary was a simple record.   But then,  bright darts of intense emotion do come though as well and after awhile one gains a window into the grand duchesses world view. It's not just about the records of events , but how she represents them over all and it's an effect that comes over one has they read. Olga works her charm. I haven't gotten to the romance with Standart officer which is later in the year, but am looking forward to it.

However sometimes it seems they never knew a life out of captivity ...expect for some adventures as war nurses. Otherwise their lives were always about walks with Papa,  lessons,  family tea,  Alexandra's illness, and being surrounded by guards.....
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on October 29, 2009, 02:11:13 PM
It is meantioned on the main Olga 1913 diary thread found at

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11769.0

that she doesn't speak of the young pair of OTMA as much as one might  think.
But Olga does  say , "we four"  did this or that quire a bit and  that covers M& A
for her to a large extent . They are a "we"  to be sure.

I am one of four girls. We have a name for ourselves too and there is nothing like  sisters .
But we were not as close as these four sisters and how could we be? We all had other friends
from the  toddler age  and then each had different classrooms full of other children as well.

We had some what separate lives from kindergarten on... but OTMA to a large extent , did not.
So look for the " we four  " for the little pair doings. 



 

 

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarai on October 30, 2009, 08:00:39 AM
Very true, I noticed that too. She may not mention them individually by name as much but certainly collectively.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 27, 2009, 01:22:52 PM
Having  now finished reading Olga Nikolaievna 's 1913 diary, I feel she certainly  cared very much for AKSH and dear S . But imo part of what is driving these relationships is Olga  had to have at least  the possibility at of an  highly charged unscheduled event for her to feel at her best. Olga Nicholaievna loved a surprise , the unexpected. She loved the emotional charge found in such a happening. But Olga Nikolaievna  was a Grand Duchess,  a royal, and she could basically  know where she would be and  what she would be doing for years ahead.  It seems with maturity, Olga's  love of school room pranks gave way to officer flirtations as a means to find some variance . No wonder she was often using  those field glasses, looking for the current favortie. Just sighting them was a relief.

There is a time near the end of the diary where officer "dear S. " drops from her radar and for a time  no one really takes up the slack. AKSH shows a couple of times, the must see favortie from earlier in her diary,  but it's not the same. This when we read her life is  " the same people doing the same stuff". ( Quite an admission for her, even though it has occurred to many a reader well before!)  During this time Olga  even says she  feels " empty". But after awhile,  Olga reports she has at least gotten use to not seeing dear S. This is quite a victory for her , given  the contrast between her nature and position. Luckly dear S. returns and all is well ....for a time, but his marriage is something that takes place off the 1913 stage.

Like others, I want to greatly  thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for Olga 's 1913 diary and look forward to more!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Joyann1 on December 02, 2009, 03:05:25 AM
Is there also a hardcover avialible for this book? if so, where can i buy it?

and if there isn't a hardcover avialible where can i buy the paperback?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Belochka on December 02, 2009, 03:18:20 AM
The book can be purchased from Gilbert's Royalty Books.

I believe the book is only available in softback.

Margarita
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Joyann1 on December 02, 2009, 09:14:28 AM
ok, Thank you.

isn't there any other way to get it? i always pay with my credit card but i can't use paypal..
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on December 02, 2009, 11:15:15 AM
Van Hoogstraten in The Hague, can also be of help. www.hoogstraten.nl
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Joyann1 on December 02, 2009, 04:57:21 PM
i brows that bookshop online quite allot because i'm dutch, but i never seen this book for sell on there.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Belochka on December 02, 2009, 11:46:29 PM
ok, Thank you.

isn't there any other way to get it? i always pay with my credit card but i can't use paypal..

Why don't you e-mail Paul Gilbert and tell him you would like to purchase the book? 

I am sure that he will accommodate your purchase requirement, which will be convenient for you.

Margarita
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Teddy on December 03, 2009, 02:19:43 AM
i brows that bookshop online quite allot because i'm dutch, but i never seen this book for sell on there.

No, but they can do an order for you. By the way, I'm Dutch too.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Joyann1 on December 03, 2009, 04:05:52 AM
ok, Thank you Teddy And Belochka :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Raegan on December 04, 2009, 01:46:44 PM
Like others, I want to greatly  thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for Olga 's 1913 diary and look forward to more!

Thanks so much!!! I appreciate it. An announcement about the next book will hopefully be made in early 2010.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 04, 2009, 07:22:56 PM
Raegan, I'm looking forward to your news concerning more Olga Nikolaievna diaries or from the other other
grand duchess ! I think it would be great if someday there is a book that has all the entries that exists
for each GD for a given day together in two columns per page, with perhaps slightly  different colours.

It would be interesting to compare and contrast  how each sister experienced  the same events. It would
most likely show up thier similarities and thier differences in  interesting ways. The four seem like clock works,
separate parts and yet they also work together in an unique way.

Thank you for all you do!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: RHB on December 04, 2009, 10:11:03 PM
Having  now finished reading Olga Nikolaievna 's 1913 diary, I feel she certainly  cared very much for AKSH and dear S . But imo part of what is driving these relationships is Olga  had to have at least  the possibility at of an  highly charged unscheduled event for her to feel at her best. Olga Nicholaievna loved a surprise , the unexpected. She loved the emotional charge found in such a happening. But Olga Nikolaievna  was a Grand Duchess,  a royal, and she could basically  know where she would be and  what she would be doing for years ahead.  It seems with maturity, Olga's  love of school room pranks gave way to officer flirtations as a means to find some variance . No wonder she was often using  those field glasses, looking for the current favortie. Just sighting them was a relief.

Field Glasses? Does anyone know of any of her (Olga) pranks?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 04, 2009, 10:34:46 PM
No wonder she was often using  those field glasses, looking for the current favortie. Just sighting them was a relief.

Field Glasses? Does anyone know of any of her (Olga) pranks?

When during the day Olga couldn't speak with her current favorite officer , she'd use filed glasses to try and see them!
What's funny is that Maria has the reputation within the family of being the flrit ...I believe because she was more likely to
quote Anastasia, " bellow"  to her favorite from the balcony...lol!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on December 14, 2009, 05:42:21 PM
I finally got my hands on a copy! Everyone's reviews are very accurate. It's a little tedious and boring, but at the same time, it's exciting and really lets you into Olga's life.

But I do have a question. Olga sometimes says her mother's heart is 11/2 or 2. What does this mean?

And I'm impatiently waiting for the announcement on possible future books!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on December 14, 2009, 10:06:14 PM
But I do have a question. Olga sometimes says her mother's heart is 11/2 or 2. What does this mean?

I'm still trying to figure this out! Probably it's a family shorthand for the severity of Alexandra's discomfort, but so far I haven't been able to correlate specific symptoms with the numbers.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 14, 2009, 10:26:26 PM
Probably it's a family shorthand for the severity of Alexandra's discomfort,...

Exactly...but whether the lower numbers means it's better or wrose is the question!
It would make sense that the higher the number, the greater the discomfort...but it
doesn't seem to follow that always....so it could be the  inverse . And another question
is,  is this a rating system the girls came up with or Alexandra?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on December 14, 2009, 10:33:15 PM
And another question is,  is this a rating system the girls came up with or Alexandra?

It appears in Alexandra's diaries as well, but I don't know where it originated. My guess is with the empress herself. She had, as Jonathan Hunt says in the front matter of The Last Diary of Tsaritsa Alexandra, "an idiosyncratic interest in numbers and coded language."
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on December 15, 2009, 07:57:23 AM
I am completely agreed with you, Sarushka. She was prone to write down in codes. When I just remember whole series of letters written in those codes. But for her, it meant something. Could it be 1 and 1/2, and not 11/2?  Since 1 and 1/2 is more closer to 2. Simply logical. Perhaps blood pressure, expressed in older system of writing. pulse, heart-beat?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on December 15, 2009, 09:11:29 AM
Could it be 1 and 1/2, and not 11/2?  Since 1 and 1/2 is more closer to 2. Simply logical. Perhaps blood pressure, expressed in older system of writing. pulse, heart-beat?

Yes, that's exactly right. I think that's what clockworkgirl meant, but the spacing in her post wasn't clear. The numbers Alexandra used for her heart code are:
1
1½ (sometimes written 1.5)
2
2½ (sometimes written 2.5)
3

I don't think it could be pulse, because Olga sometimes records her mother's pulse in the traditional way. On 30 June, for example, Olga writes "pulse 100."
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on December 15, 2009, 09:56:26 AM
Thank you. Well, and what if she divided her 'upper /bigger (heart - body - heart)' and 'down/smaller(heart - lungs - heart)' blood pressure measurements (if Surgeon measured Empress' blood pressure).

For example, those two are 160/85. When it is divided , it turns to have results going between 1.5 up to 2 and higher.  ;-) (here (http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/31/1/240/T1) I have got idea about possible dividing those two measurements).

Pulse: Idealistic pulse would be 80 if I am not mistaken. And Empress had it 100 ( heart beats per minute I suppose, how else). Either it was too hot weather, so by grasping large amount of oxygen she indeed reached that high.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 15, 2009, 11:09:48 AM
nena ,I think it's genius to think of it in term of two measurements...of course!
Certainly both of  Alexandra's heart and legs would be seen as big enough issues to
warrent  thier own measurements. It tells one a great deal more of her state than just  one would.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on December 25, 2009, 10:02:49 PM
On 21 October 1917, Alexandra notes in her diary, "heart 1½." In response to this, the editor of the Russian edition of N&A's 1917-1918 diaries (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=94) proposes:

"Запись, вероятно, означает, что императрица испытывала боли в сердце в 1½ часа."
(Entry likely means that the Empress experienced pain in the heart at 1:30.)

It seems plausible, but on the other hand it's odd that according to this theory Alexandra's heart pain occurred almost exclusively between 1:00 and 3:00 in the afternoon.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 25, 2009, 10:13:56 PM
There is  known medical science and then there is how AF experienced her ailments and expressed herself about them. In part that's why this is so puzzling . It's a private code of a private code. Does Tatiana's diary mention the numbers? If her and Olga's diaries could be looked at for the same day, there might be a chance to break at  least one of the codes.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 28, 2009, 01:08:32 PM
I was wondering about "heart #2" etc. too. I also have 2 other questions:
Who is Trina?
What are those names in front of the dates? Does that mean that it's those people's name days?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on December 28, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Trina was nickname for Ekaterina Schneider, who later followed the fmaily to Siberia and was murdered.
I think the names before the dates stadn for people who came to tea or something liek that...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on December 28, 2009, 02:27:07 PM
I think the names before the dates stadn for people who came to tea or something liek that...

I agree. It could also be a note of the tsar's aide de camp for the day. (They can't be name days, because the same person's name appears on multiple dates.)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 28, 2009, 05:14:18 PM
Ahh. i did notice that, but forgot when i posted. What is an aide-de-camp?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 28, 2009, 10:12:36 PM
Ahh. i did notice that, but forgot when i posted. What is an aide-de-camp?
it's means a military man there to help a superior officer...or in this case, the royal family 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 29, 2009, 10:21:26 AM
OK, so an assistant of sorts?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Kalafrana on December 29, 2009, 10:37:12 AM
Aide-de-camp is somewhat difficult to describe - (it's like an elephant, you know one when you see him!).

Essentially an ADC is a young officer attached to a senior officer - in the British army an ADC is usully a Captain. He travels about with him, smooths his way and acts as a confidant. He almost always belongs to the great man's own regiment, and being an ADC is a sign that he may well be on the path to greater things.

As far as royalty are concerned, there are two types of ADC. One is the type described above, also known as an equerry (though in Britain an equerry is usually a Major). There will usually be more than one, and they take turns to be 'in attendance' on the monarch. I don't know whether it's still the case, but equerries here used to do two weeks in attendance at a time, as did ladies in waiting. The other is a senior officer who is made a ADC to the monarch as a sort of honorary appointment, though he will attend on the monarch when the monarch visits. A prince, once he reaches a certain age, will usually be made an ADC to the monarch (Prince Charles is an ADC to the Queen, and no doubt Prince William and Prince Harry will become so in due course). One of the arguments put forward by Anna Anderson's supporters was that Grand Duke Andrei Vladimirovich accepted her as Anastasia, and Andrei Vladimirovich was an ADC to Nicholas II, so must have seen her regularly. But Andrei Vladimirovich was an ADC in the honorific sense, not in regular attendance on the Tsar, so that doesn't prove anything. In fact, Andrei Vladimirovich was more-or-less persona non grata at the Alexander Palace, so probably didn't know Anastasia all that well.

An ADC of either kind can be recognised by his aiguillettes - the fancy gold cord things on the right or left shoulder.

Ann



Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 29, 2009, 10:43:24 AM
My goodness how complicated! not really, but it is more involved than i thought.
does anyone know who Mary is? she appeared suddenly, wheeling Alexei around in his chair, and was mentioned a bit more, and she, along with Trina, are not mentioned in the characters list. any idea who they are?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on December 29, 2009, 11:43:40 AM
My goodness how complicated! not really, but it is more involved than i thought.
does anyone know who Mary is? she appeared suddenly, wheeling Alexei around in his chair, and was mentioned a bit more, and she, along with Trina, are not mentioned in the characters list. any idea who they are?

It could be an anglicized version of Maria that slipped through the translating/editing process.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 29, 2009, 01:23:12 PM
Ohh. i thought maybe so. likley that's what it is.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on January 21, 2010, 01:10:57 AM
Anyone know who Trina is?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 21, 2010, 04:49:30 AM
Ekaterina Schneider.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on January 21, 2010, 12:03:55 PM
Here's a photo of "Trina"  who is ,as Ally replied, Ekaterina Schneider. In this photo she is  with Countess Hendrikova in the Standart's dining salon. Ekaterina Schneider is the older woman. Once one knows who Trina is,you often start seeing her in the group  photos and realize you have been acquainted with this fine woman for some time already  lol!
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/th_TN.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/?action=view&current=TN.jpg)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on January 24, 2010, 11:58:42 AM
I know i should know who she is, but who is Ekaterina Schneider?
A lady in waiting?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 24, 2010, 02:27:06 PM
She was a lady who taught Russian language first to Grand Duchess Ella and later toher sister Alix. Later she was appointed a lectrice (sp??) to the Empress so she could stay int he palace. She followed the family to Siberia and was brutally murdered after tranfer to Ekaterinburg.

here´s a whole thread on her http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1630.0
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Suzanne on June 20, 2010, 02:45:44 PM
I just bought this book at Galignani in Paris and really enjoyed reading it. There were a few things that stood out to me that I don`t think have been mentioned yet

1) The variable `school year` for the Romanov children. While Olga often mentions having lessons they seem to be frequently interrupted - there`s various holiday breaks, a Romanov tricentennial break and I assume half days at Livadia (to fit in all those afternoon tennis matches!). I also found it curious that while Olga mentions reading with her mother or Gilliard she never names books or what she thought of them

2) The regular presence of Nikolai Kulikovsky at Aunt Olga`s Sunday gatherings. In the letters Olga wrote to her nieces, reprinted in 25 Chapter of my life, she refers to him as her dear Kukushkin from the beginning of the war. I wonder how aware OTMA was of their aunt`s relationship with Kulikovsky before her second marriage.

3)The week long visit of Rasputin, his wife and daughter Varvara to Livadia during the fall of 1913. Olga mentions that visited her mother and sat with her. I wonder how often the Empress and Rasputin`s family encountered each other. There are a few other visits mentioned in Maria Rasputin`s memoirs.

4) The constant visits from relatives but little comment on how enjoyable these visits were. Olga demonstrates a close relationship with Aunt Olga, refers to Dmitri talking nonsense at one point, making her laugh and says a critical word about Felix Yussupov`s civilian status but the family visits are generally just reported rather than discussed. I wonder how she felt about, for instance, the Vladimirs, or who she was closest to among Xenia`s sons or the Constantinovichi
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on June 20, 2010, 11:12:29 PM
I also found it curious that while Olga mentions reading with her mother or Gilliard she never names books or what she thought of them
I was just thinking about that the other day as I leafed though her  diary. Olga is a reader,  as we know, but what she thought of the books, or even which ones is, as you say,  missing. It is interesting to read this book. One almost has to read it at least twice to get the  full benefit . The first time though,  one's ideas about a diary get  recalibrated in a way . We are use to " full confessions"  in a dairy...what one learns from Olga's reports  is read between the lines and found in patterns ..... I do know two of her  most important words are  " cozy"  and " boring"  lol!
Quote
In the letters Olga wrote to her nieces, reprinted in 25 Chapter of my life, she refers to him as her dear Kukushkin from the beginning of the war. I wonder how aware OTMA was of their aunt`s relationship with Kulikovsky before her second marriage.
That's interesting. Seems the war opened that door...and they knew a good deal...at least the big pair. A term like  " dear Kukushkin"  is serious stuff it seems to me.  In a letter to her aunt from captivity , Olga Nikolaievna said she wished they could have a heart to heart talk, but there wasn't the opportunity. One can't help wonder what she wanted to speak to her aunt about.
Quote
The week long visit of Rasputin, his wife and daughter Varvara to Livadia during the fall of 1913.
Wow I some how missed that, have to go back and look.  Olga's idea of a diary is almost as a report.. ..but I find I learn more or can see more every time I read a few entries . I would imagine this diary could be read at any time by others...and that  may account for the absence of  her  decided opinion of others in the family etc.  She knows what she thinks. The diary seems more a reminder for her of what she did.  Thank you for your very interesting post!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on July 20, 2010, 12:42:33 PM
The royal diaries were written in a certain style at that time, which normally didn't include much personal reflection. If you notice that her father's diary was written in much the same style... Their letters are very different though - this is where you will see all sorts of personal observations and thoughts!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on July 20, 2010, 08:18:29 PM
There is one subject upon which she reveals her feelings: her soldier crushes. Olga says, for example, "sat with Pavl. Al. in the control room. Love him so much, dear, so sweet." It's amusing to read, but also kind of sad. Also, the Rasputin blouses thing. It seems to me that Olga mentioned it because it was especially funny to her that he mistook the blouse color, and that the remark about their souls touched her especially.
You're right, blessOTMA, one does have to read the twice, to look for those things she mentions like the blouse thing, or this very funny line about the Standart sailors teasing Anastasia for being short.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on July 20, 2010, 08:39:47 PM
There's a place in the diary where Olga says  " we  practiced curtsying in Mama's cabin ...it was very funny" ... that made me  laugh the 2nd time I read the diary. I bet it WAS funny lol! ...but the remark went under the radar in the first read.   
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on July 21, 2010, 03:51:28 PM
There is one subject upon which she reveals her feelings: her soldier crushes.

Yes, this is true, and this is pretty consistent throughout all her diaries, not just 1913. However, she doesn't really "admit" that they are crushes per say, she just says nice things about these guys.  :D. Even when she is older, in 1916-17, she uses the same types of words to describe the crushes....
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on July 21, 2010, 08:23:51 PM
There is one subject upon which she reveals her feelings: her soldier crushes.

Yes, this is true, and this is pretty consistent throughout all her diaries, not just 1913. However, she doesn't really "admit" that they are crushes per say, she just says nice things about these guys.  :D. Even when she is older, in 1916-17, she uses the same types of words to describe the crushes....

Helen, is it known how private the dairies were? Could and would they be read by others? Would admitting these men's importance in her dairy be therefore,  foolish and could  lead to Olga losing their company if she goes beyond certain words ?  Olga used a language for some passages in the 1913 that was not translated and I wondered if she did that for some privacy. 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on July 21, 2010, 10:03:18 PM
Olga used a language for some passages in the 1913 that was not translated and I wondered if she did that for some privacy. 

A few of those lines were translated and included in an essay about Olga & Voronov in the exhibition catalog, Nicholas and Alexandra: At Home with the Last Tsar and His Family (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=24).
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on July 21, 2010, 10:17:57 PM
Oh is it in that book? Thank you!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on July 24, 2010, 10:23:47 PM
Olga is sometimes  looked  down on for using "childish" words  in her diary during  her later years about the  young men she cared for.  But if she went beyond a certain, permissible  lexicon, she risked losing sight of them ...it's not fair to blame her for the "childish" words. It was something she had to endure...I feel her  dairy could be read at any time. But she may have also used such words to keep her emotions in check as well . The  restrictions on her as a royal nearly 100 years ago is often  hard for us to appreciate. We are so much freer and belong to ourselves...while Olga Nikolaievna belonged to the State ...as a royal or a prisoner.
 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 24, 2010, 11:24:53 PM
Is this book published ? No sight of it in the Gilbert website...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on July 25, 2010, 01:41:58 AM
Is this book published ? No sight of it in the Gilbert website...
here you go Eric,  http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/grbpg27.html
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 25, 2010, 06:28:28 AM
Thanks ! I will order it. :-)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on July 26, 2010, 12:06:43 PM
Helen, is it known how private the dairies were? Could and would they be read by others?

I am not 100% sure, but I believe that when members of the imperial family wrote in their diaries it was with the idea that one day it will become a historical document, so they knew that at some point in the future it won't be private, although they probably didn't know when these diaries would be looked at. Which is also why they mainly tried to write down mostly factual things, and not so much of personal feelings, the way they did in their letters.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on July 26, 2010, 10:32:07 PM
Very interesting Helen, thank you!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 26, 2010, 11:48:54 PM
Well...I wrote my diary, but do not expect other people to see it...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on July 26, 2010, 11:52:49 PM
Well...I wrote my diary, but do not expect other people to see it...
Yes Eric, but you aren't  a royal...unless there's something you have been keeping from us?  ;D lol!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 27, 2010, 12:02:21 AM
Well...I don't think Princess Marina or Queen Alexandra's diaries were read either ?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 16, 2010, 10:21:16 AM
Here is another place you can get Raegan's book: http://www.hoogstraten.nl/theshop/product_info.php?products_id=444&osCsid=fc4ad2ccfedff22f3fd17c52f0971cf7
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 16, 2010, 10:26:28 AM
Thanks Helen ! It sounds li8ke a great book. I wonder if they plan to publish Tatiana's and Marie's later on ?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 20, 2010, 11:24:42 AM
I believe that Marie and Anastasia burned their diaries. Tatiana is a possibility, however, her handwriting is so challenging to read, that it would take years if not decades to decipher it!  :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on September 20, 2010, 12:58:12 PM
Indeed, Helen. I have never seen any like it. It's almost stright up and down.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on September 20, 2010, 01:11:21 PM
The Little Pair indeed burned their diaries during the captivity at Tobolsk, however the volumes of 1912,1913 and 1916 (of GD Maria Nichoaleivna's diaries) survived. I hope my memory still serves me well.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 20, 2010, 02:04:24 PM
You may be right about the earlier diaries of the Little Pair having survived, but I am not sure which ones exactly... As far as I know, the Big Pair didn't keep diaries during their captivity, at least Olga didn't. Her last diary entry was in March of 1917.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 20, 2010, 02:21:22 PM
It may be too painful to write about that period. I think Tatiana's would be interesting too.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on September 20, 2010, 03:02:10 PM
As far as I know, none of the Anastasia's diaries survived, while three volumes of Maria's survived. OTMA wrote the letter to their relatives and friends during the captivity, including GD Tatiana.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on September 20, 2010, 03:32:19 PM
The Little Pair indeed burned their diaries during the captivity at Tobolsk, however the volumes of 1912,1913 and 1916 (of GD Maria Nichoaleivna's diaries) survived. I hope my memory still serves me well.

This is correct. Nicholas mentions in his diary on 9/22 April 1918:
"We learned that the extraordinary commissar Yakovlev had arrived from Moscow...The children imagined that he would come today to perform a search, and burned all their letters, and Marie and Anastasia even burned their diaries."

As you can see, Nicholas doesn't say precisely how many diaries the younger girls disposed of. IMO, the Little Pair certainly burned their most recent diaries -- presumably 1918 and 1917. The surviving volumes that belonged to Maria may have been packed away in crates in the storage sheds, like her father's. (In Ekaterinburg, Nicholas's diaries were stored in a crate labeled "NA 13.")
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 20, 2010, 05:08:17 PM
Would love to read Maria's diaries.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on September 20, 2010, 05:16:39 PM
Eric, Since her letters are terrific  (imo) ...I agree with you there. Sarushka , thank you for the wonderful  info and quotes .
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 21, 2010, 10:17:36 AM
I think Maria was a character that gravites people towards her. Had she lived, she would have made a good queen or princess consort.  ;)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 22, 2010, 08:10:14 AM
Eric, Since her letters are terrific  (imo) ...I agree with you there. Sarushka , thank you for the wonderful  info and quotes .

I think the letters are more interesting then diaries, especially in the case of Imperial family. The letters show the emotions, describe the experience, but the journal entries are usually very "dry", nothing but a recount without much of inner thoughts. I´d love to see an edition of OTMAA´s letters. I would buy that no matter how high the prize would be.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 22, 2010, 09:33:33 AM
There are some of Tatiana's letters in the Louise Mountbatten book...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on September 22, 2010, 11:56:23 PM
I´d love to see an edition of OTMAA´s letters. I would buy that no matter how high the prize would be.
  I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 23, 2010, 02:25:09 AM
There are some of Tatiana's letters in the Louise Mountbatten book...

There are many excerpts in Lifelong Passion, but to have an edition(s), complete or at least partly complete would be just too fantastic.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 23, 2010, 10:39:51 AM
Yes. That would be really great !  ;)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Georgiy on September 23, 2010, 10:35:15 PM
Large amounts of Tatiana's diaries are in "Sisters of Mercy", so I guess for Russians her handwriting isn't impossible to transliterate.

Confirming, according to sisters of mercy, there are indeed 3 extant diaries of Maria's. Her letters indeed have more interest, like them all, the diaries are more about what they did rather than what they felt. No diaries of Anastasia's available, at least not at GARF.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on September 23, 2010, 11:24:50 PM
It seems their diaries were kept mostly as a function of  their positions as Grand Duchesses and were a kind of reporting ...where as their letters were about and from themselves and loved ones ....hence the difference in tone . Both the reporting and the true feelings are welcomed dispatches from the high sisters .
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 24, 2010, 09:47:32 AM
Would love to see him.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 24, 2010, 09:48:26 AM
I mean the papers of Marie. I should have said it not "him".
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on October 04, 2010, 04:00:28 PM
Do all of OTMA's letters exist in full somewhere online? Or is there someplace with a lot of their full lettters? I know that on the main AP site there are pages for OTMA's letters but only exerpts not full.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 04, 2010, 09:07:42 PM
Many Russian letters by OTMA are published in full in Avgusteyshie Sestry Miloserdiya (Royal Sisters of Mercy) (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64), and some excerpts were translated into English for inclusion in A Lifelong Passion (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=17), but the grand duchesses' complete letters have never been published all in one place.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: matushka on October 05, 2010, 06:03:00 AM
In the Imperial family, writting a diary was seen as an exercise of style, an exercise to express thoughts and facts in a summarized way, on a regular basis. An exercize of discipline. You will find confirmation of this reading war time correspondance of Nicolas II and Alexandra Feodorovna, at the beginning of 1916, when they discussed the fact that Alexei just began too write a diary. It was really not done to express feelings in an extended way. Think that Maria, Olga (not sure) and Gilliard helped Alexei carry on his diary! Certainly nothing personnal would be written here!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 05, 2010, 06:56:11 AM
In the Imperial family, writting a diary was seen as an exercise of style, an exercise to express thoughts and facts in a summarized way, on a regular basis. An exercize of discipline. You will find confirmation of this reading war time correspondance of Nicolas II and Alexandra Feodorovna, at the beginning of 1916, when they discussed the fact that Alexei just began too write a diary. It was really not done to express feelings in an extended way. Think that Maria, Olga (not sure) and Gilliard helped Alexei carry on his diary! Certainly nothing personnal would be written here!

That's exactly right. Alexandra, Olga, Tatiana, Maria, and Petrovich all dictated various entries in Aleksei's 1916 diary due to his illness and/or laziness.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on October 05, 2010, 10:16:53 AM
Many Russian letters by OTMA are published in full in Avgusteyshie Sestry Miloserdiya (Royal Sisters of Mercy) (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64), and some excerpts were translated into English for inclusion in A Lifelong Passion (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=17), but the grand duchesses' complete letters have never been published all in one place.

I meant, do some of their complete letters, like, half or even just the fulls of the ones on the main AP site, exist online?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 05, 2010, 02:46:31 PM
That would be great !
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on December 22, 2010, 04:48:01 PM
Another thing I noticed, Olga would write that it was "warm" even if it was winter and snowing. Something with the translation?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 22, 2010, 10:32:25 PM
Interesting point. It might be a relative term...it's 20 degrees outside, and not -20 lol!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 23, 2010, 11:21:41 AM
Warm in the heart maybe ? In Russia it is very cold, so 20 maybe warm in comparison...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: rudy3 on December 23, 2010, 11:29:17 AM
Hello everybody, a warm season's greeting from Helsinki, Finland, not so far away from St. Petersburg.

Guess what? Outside right now -20 and still getting colder.

It is common knowledge, that when it is going to snow, the temperature gets higher. I have more than once said, that "today it is warm" ... that was when it was only -5 or so, snowing, but after a period of -15 to -20.

It's all relative....
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 23, 2010, 11:32:42 AM
Thanks Rudy from Finland.

Sad that Olga never did vacationed there like her father & grandparents.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: rudy3 on December 23, 2010, 11:44:24 AM
She visited the Finnish archipelago for the last time in july 1914 together with her brother, sisters and parents, aboard the Standart.
 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on December 23, 2010, 12:14:49 PM
rudy3 apparently the weather that summer was wonderful...sigh. They didn't know it was the sun set of a world
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on December 23, 2010, 12:16:54 PM
Is this -20 F or C?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 23, 2010, 12:42:56 PM
Thanks Rudy. Didn't know she visited Finland. I read there was disagreement between the Tsar and Finland on its governing. The Dowager Empress was on the side of the Fins.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: rudy3 on December 23, 2010, 01:44:39 PM
Is this -20 F or C?

Hi, Clockworkgirl21, only -20 C. Sorry for not mentioning it.

Thanks Rudy. Didn't know she visited Finland. I read there was disagreement between the Tsar and Finland on its governing. The Dowager Empress was on the side of the Fins.

Hi, Eric_Lowe. I think, that discussing Russian (Tsarist) - Finnish relations and politics from before 1917 here is too far from this topic. The Dowager Empress as being from Danish origin might therefor have had a soft spot for the Finns in her heart....
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Jelisaveta on January 08, 2011, 03:25:23 PM
Like others, I want to greatly  thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for Olga 's 1913 diary and look forward to more!

Thanks so much!!! I appreciate it. An announcement about the next book will hopefully be made in early 2010.
Any news on this?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on January 08, 2011, 07:13:58 PM
Like others, I want to greatly  thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for Olga 's 1913 diary and look forward to more!
Thanks so much!!! I appreciate it. An announcement about the next book will hopefully be made in early 2010.
Any news on this?
Here is a face book account for thier efforts.... lastest updates would be there =)
http://www.facebook.com/pages/1913-1917-Diaries-of-Grand-Duchess-Olga-Nikolaevna-Romanov/113360175379921?ref=ts
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: MarshallHowell on September 15, 2011, 11:00:40 PM
How come none of the other diaries have been published in their entirety? Are there any digital scans of these on the web?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 11, 2011, 09:55:30 AM
How come none of the other diaries have been published in their entirety? Are there any digital scans of these on the web?


Only the 1913 has been translated into English and published thus far, but the rest (1914-17) are in the works.

P.S. No digital scans are available of the diaries.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 11, 2011, 04:43:15 PM
Looking forward to that. I wonder if the other sisters (like Tatiana & Maria's) would be translated too ?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on October 11, 2011, 09:00:40 PM
I am anxiously awaiting more translated diaries also.  I wonder if they could keep us updated on the progress of the others that are being translated?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 12, 2011, 01:52:15 PM
Looking forward to that. I wonder if the other sisters (like Tatiana & Maria's) would be translated too ?

Maria's diaries no longer exist as far as I know because she and Anastasia burned them at the start of the revolution... Tatiana's do exist, and some of the entries have been published in Russian, but have not been translated into English as far as I know. As difficult as it was to decipher Olga's handwriting, Tatiana's is notoriously even more unreadable, which is probably why people hesitate to do them :). But hey, you never know what the future may bring!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on October 12, 2011, 04:11:14 PM
Three Maria's diaries exists -- 1912,1913 and 1916 volume. Only Anastasia's are missing.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on October 12, 2011, 08:05:29 PM
I  would love to see what we have of the girl's diaries published side by side on a page for a given date.
It would be interesting how each described the same day and events . I do hope to see Marie's someday
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on October 13, 2011, 12:54:33 AM
I  would love to see what we have of the girl's diaries published side by side on a page for a given date.
It would be interesting how each described the same day and events . I do hope to see Marie's someday

I would love it to!! We're philologists inside, Annie! LOL
Anyway i found O and T original russian diaries in a couple of russian sites, but no way to see Maria's ones. Does anyone knows abything about them? Are they still secret, or something? Or maybe it's just because of the handwriting, like Helen was so kind to point out? (i did not know it - thanks Helen!)

but the rest (1914-17) are in the works.

Good job, Helen. I'm following you on fb ^^
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Talya on October 13, 2011, 01:15:05 AM
Could you PM me Olga and Tatiana's Russian diaries? Links I mean! Thanks in advance :)

I can't wait until 1914-1917!!! ;D
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 13, 2011, 09:12:16 AM
Yes. Love to read Marie's & Tatiana's, the two more attractive of the girls.  ;)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 13, 2011, 04:39:30 PM
Three Maria's diaries exists -- 1912,1913 and 1916 volume.

Just curious how you know that these particular 3 years of Marie's diaries exist... Thanks!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 13, 2011, 05:01:28 PM
Three Maria's diaries exists -- 1912,1913 and 1916 volume.

Just curious how you know that these particular 3 years of Marie's diaries exist... Thanks!

See page 10 of Royal Sisters of Mercy (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64).
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Rodney_G. on October 13, 2011, 06:19:43 PM
Three Maria's diaries exists -- 1912,1913 and 1916 volume.

Just curious how you know that these particular 3 years of Marie's diaries exist... Thanks!

See page 10 of Royal Sisters of Mercy (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64).

Lacking access to Royal Sisters Of Mercy I have to assume the idea is that  it mentions that Maria's diaries for those years exist and are presumably where? GARF?

Also, does anyone know if Maria's diaries have been quoted elsewhere?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 13, 2011, 10:09:41 PM
Lacking access to Royal Sisters Of Mercy I have to assume the idea is that  it mentions that Maria's diaries for those years exist and are presumably where? GARF?

Sorry, didn't mean to be cagey.

Yes, that's correct. Royal Sisters of Mercy lists all the diaries of Olga, Tatiana, and Maria that are held at GARF. None of Anastasia's are known to have survived. I believe Georgiy originally posted the full list, but I don't recall what thread it's on.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: nena on October 14, 2011, 08:34:01 AM
Lacking access to Royal Sisters Of Mercy I have to assume the idea is that  it mentions that Maria's diaries for those years exist and are presumably where? GARF?

Sorry, didn't mean to be cagey.

Yes, that's correct. Royal Sisters of Mercy lists all the diaries of Olga, Tatiana, and Maria that are held at GARF. None of Anastasia's are known to have survived. I believe Georgiy originally posted the full list, but I don't recall what thread it's on.

Yes, correct:
The book "August Sisters of Mercy" has in the introduction information about what GARF has in its archives by the Grand Duchesses. About the diaries, the information is as follows:

Olga: 12 diaries from 1905 - 1917, with the 1910 volume missing. The first entry on 01/01/05 begins "I was at Church with Mama and Papa." Olga's last diary entry was on 15/03/17.

Tatiana: 9 diaries from 1907 - 1916, with the 1911 one missing. The last entry is on 24/10/16. The exercise book she used for a diary for the rest of the year and into 1917, apparantly, she destroyed.

Maria: 3 diaries: 1912, 1913 and 1916.

Anastasia: No diaries. All appear to have been destroyed or lost. There are however some of her exercise books, compositions, drawings, letters etc.

All 4 of course have photo albums and photos in the archives, too.
Thanks a lot to Georgiy! But I now see that Sarushka quotes the same on the 1st page of this thread.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 14, 2011, 09:39:03 AM
Thanks.  I actually do have "Sisters...", but I haven't read the entire book yet... I was basically loosely going by one of Nicholas's diary entries where he wrote that Marie and Anastasia burned their diaries... He specifically mentioned the two girls. I wonder what made Marie keep those 3 notebooks and burn the rest.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Rodney_G. on October 14, 2011, 03:35:54 PM
Thanks.  I actually do have "Sisters...", but I haven't read the entire book yet... I was basically loosely going by one of Nicholas's diary entries where he wrote that Marie and Anastasia burned their diaries... He specifically mentioned the two girls. I wonder what made Marie keep those 3 notebooks and burn the rest.

Possibly she was only able to burn her current diary. That is, there's a good chance that her three earlier ones simply weren't at hand, as in storage perhaps.  There wasn't really time oropportunity  to organise  a proper bonfire, which might have been pretty big, or suspicious. Or, equally possible, she may have felt, rightly, that the earlier diaries would be seen as less 'incriminating' for her parents, at least as opposed to a 1917 one which might have included things about the war, political unrest, etc.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 14, 2011, 04:44:21 PM
Possibly she was only able to burn her current diary. That is, there's a good chance that her three earlier ones simply weren't at hand, as in storage perhaps.  There wasn't really time oropportunity  to organise  a proper bonfire, which might have been pretty big, or suspicious. Or, equally possible, she may have felt, rightly, that the earlier diaries would be seen as less 'incriminating' for her parents, at least as opposed to a 1917 one which might have included things about the war, political unrest, etc.

That's always been my presumption as well. After all, Nicholas doesn't state how many of their diaries the Little Pair burned.

Nicholas personally packed all of his previous diaries into a crate upon his departure from Tsarskoe Selo, and IMO they were never unpacked -- he repeatedly expressed concern about that crate as well as another crate of papers belonging to Alexandra when the guards began pilfering the IF's belongings from the shed in Ekaterinburg. So I think it's likely that the bulk of the girls' diaries were similarly packed away.

Maria's 1914 & 1915 diaries could have been lost or stolen. As I recall, Aleksei's 1918 diary was found at the home of one of the guards...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Talya on October 14, 2011, 06:50:58 PM
Or, since the 1914 and 1915 ones contained information about WW1 could it have been a reason to burn them? In 1916 not much news would have been recorded about it, and therefore not burned. Just a speculation on my part. :)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Georgiy on October 14, 2011, 09:47:18 PM
Perhaps the non-current diaries were left at Tsarskoe-selo. I can't remember off hand, but I am pretty certain some of Maria's diary from 1916 is published in Sisters of Mercy.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on October 14, 2011, 11:15:46 PM
I can't remember off hand, but I am pretty certain some of Maria's diary from 1916 is published in Sisters of Mercy.

Yes, that's right -- 118 entries from Maria's 1916 diary appear in RSM.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on October 14, 2011, 11:50:56 PM
What is "The Sisters of Mercy"  and how does one get to read it?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on October 15, 2011, 12:44:48 AM
What is "The Sisters of Mercy"  and how does one get to read it?

Sarah had already posted the link in the previous page  ;D
Anyway: here you can read more: http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64 (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64)
The book is entirely in russian, you can buy on Ozon.ru and is a collection of letters and diary entries of the family... that is what i understood, since i haven't it yet.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 15, 2011, 02:15:49 PM
Another roadblock for those who did not read Russian.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on October 15, 2011, 02:24:33 PM
Another roadblock for those who did not read Russian.

That's quite the reason why i chose to study Language and not Literature at the college - i needed russian too much!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 15, 2011, 02:26:59 PM
It comes in handy if you are into Romanovs....
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Antonina on October 16, 2011, 11:01:59 AM
There is an on-line version of "Sisters of Mercy" (not whole the book, but all Alexandra's and girls' entries).
Only in Russian, sorry((

Foreword - http://emalkrest.narod.ru/txt/meds-prd.htm
1914 - http://emalkrest.narod.ru/txt/det14.htm
1915 - http://emalkrest.narod.ru/txt/det15.htm
1916 - http://emalkrest.narod.ru/txt/det16.htm
1917 - http://emalkrest.narod.ru/txt/det17.htm
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on October 17, 2011, 01:26:33 AM
That's awesome thank you! 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: larri* on October 17, 2011, 10:09:58 AM
Antonina thank you very very much for the wonderful links! =)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: carkuczyn on October 17, 2011, 09:08:58 PM
Regarding the online "Sisters of Mercy" excerpts......we English speakers can use an online translator to read it!  It is a slower process and the translation is not always the best, but it works.......I have tried it.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Antonina on October 17, 2011, 09:42:57 PM
You're welcome!
In it's foreword there is a description of GD's personal funds in GARF:
Olga - 271 units of storage, diaries 1905 - 15/03/1917; 1910 is  absent.
Tatiana - 325 units of storage, diaries 1907 - 24.10. 1916; 1911  is  absent.
Maria - 278 units of storage,  diaries 1912, 1913, 1916.
Anastasia - 129 units of storage, no diaries.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on October 18, 2011, 12:45:59 AM
Thanks again Antonina!
Since i'm an hard worker, i'm translating every letter/entry into my language LOL google translator is not enough if you are obsessed with the details like i am... and if there's a voice saying to you: "You have studied russian, you MUST translate them"!! LOL
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 18, 2011, 07:45:53 AM
I will be including a lot of the translations from Sisters of Mercy in my Olga's diaries book, mostly Olga's diary entries as well as her letters. Maybe some of the others, I haven't decided yet...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Suzanne on October 18, 2011, 10:17:14 AM
I would recommend anyone interested in Russian history take a course in introductory Russian - knowing the syntax of a Russian sentence, basic vocabulary and how to read the Cyrillic alphabet helps immensely with reading Russian texts, even if online translation is necessary for the more complicated vocabulary and grammar. The classes I took used the "Teach Youself Russian books and CDS" and "Essential Russian Grammar" - very useful!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Rodney_G. on October 19, 2011, 05:30:18 PM
116 diary entries for Marie in RSOM. That's   a lt and very interesting since she wasn't even one of them , ie. really a "royal sister of mercy," although she , along with Anastasia DID spend a lot of time in her own hospital, cheering and helping those patients, though not actually doing nurse work.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 14, 2011, 02:07:51 PM
Nicholas' diary (1918)

"9 April. Monday.

... Found out about the arrival of the special authorized [person] Yakovlev from Moscow; he moved into the Kornilov house. The children imagined that he will show up today to do a search and burned all letters, and Maria and Anastasia also [burned] their diaries... "

I wonder how they decided which ones to keep and which ones to burn... 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 14, 2011, 03:20:25 PM
I think Marie's "naughty ones" may have been burnt.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 14, 2011, 03:30:34 PM
As I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, IMO the girls' pre-1917 diaries were likely packed in crates in the outside storage sheds, as Nicholas and Alexandra's were. They probably only burned what was immediately at hand: the 1917 & 1918 volumes.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 14, 2011, 03:33:48 PM
Most likely. I think the girls diary and letters would reveal what they thought about other members of the Romanov Family.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 18, 2011, 12:08:48 PM
As I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, IMO the girls' pre-1917 diaries were likely packed in crates in the outside storage sheds, as Nicholas and Alexandra's were. They probably only burned what was immediately at hand: the 1917 & 1918 volumes.

That makes total sense. So as far as we know none of the post-1916 diaries of the two girls survived? 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 18, 2011, 12:32:23 PM
Most likely. I think the girls diary and letters would reveal what they thought about other members of the Romanov Family.

Possibly, but not necessarily... 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 18, 2011, 04:12:16 PM
As I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, IMO the girls' pre-1917 diaries were likely packed in crates in the outside storage sheds, as Nicholas and Alexandra's were. They probably only burned what was immediately at hand: the 1917 & 1918 volumes.

That makes total sense. So as far as we know none of the post-1916 diaries of the two girls survived?  

Correct -- provided Royal Sisters of Mercy reported GARF's holdings accurately.

The blank book Tatiana used for her 1916 diary ends in late fall or early winter. (The latest entry printed in RSM is 24 October 1916.) Presumably she began a fresh one in late 1916 which would have continued into 1917, but no such diary is known to exist -- perhaps because she destroyed it at some point.

I know Olga's diary stops abruptly on 15 March 1917, but there's one thing that's not clear to me: did she simply stop making entries after the revolution, or were the post-revolutionary pages removed from the diary?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 18, 2011, 04:22:33 PM
From Greg King's book, it was suggested that she was "violated" on the train...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 18, 2011, 11:07:14 PM
From Greg King's book, it was suggested that she was "violated" on the train...
Why does than not surprise me? I guess that was  after the Rus suggestion.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 19, 2011, 12:35:44 AM
From Greg King's book, it was suggested that she was "violated" on the train...

What? I don't see the connection to the topic at hand. Also, which of Greg King's books are you referring to?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 19, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
The one about the end of the Romanovs. It might be too painful a chapter for Olga to write in her diary.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 19, 2011, 04:01:49 PM
The one about the end of the Romanovs. It might be too painful a chapter for Olga to write in her diary.

Olga stopped updating her diary over a year before her transfer to Ekaterinbug on the Rus, so whatever happened on board the steamer -- if anything at all -- can't be a factor.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: EmmyLee on November 19, 2011, 06:41:34 PM
I know Olga's diary stops abruptly on 15 March 1917, but there's one thing that's not clear to me: did she simply stop making entries after the revolution, or were the post-revolutionary pages removed from the diary?

I don't read Russian, so I put one of the earlier links to 1917 diaries/letters into Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Femalkrest.narod.ru%2Ftxt%2Fdet17.htm) At the bottom of the page is Olga's last entry and then:

"The last entry, then ripped out pages of the diary."

Did Sisters of Mercy mention this?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 19, 2011, 07:41:28 PM
I don't read Russian, so I put one of the earlier links to 1917 diaries/letters into Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Femalkrest.narod.ru%2Ftxt%2Fdet17.htm) At the bottom of the page is Olga's last entry and then:

"The last entry, then ripped out pages of the diary."

Did Sisters of Mercy mention this?

Yes, I just found it in the footnotes of RSM -- thanks for pointing it out!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 20, 2011, 12:36:29 PM
Thanks for the mention.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 20, 2011, 04:07:49 PM
From Greg King's book, it was suggested that she was "violated" on the train...
Why does than not surprise me? I guess that was  after the Rus suggestion.

Sorry?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 20, 2011, 08:21:38 PM
Quote
author=Janet  Ashton link=topic=11769.msg498584#msg498584 date=1321826869]
Sorry?

I'm referring to another  suggestion of assault...that the girls were violated on the Rus. The  testimony of thier male servant was used...about how the girl's state room door was left unlocked...but his words " however they were left in peace " were omitted... also in another book, it was  suggested  Grand Duke Sergei violated Dimity P. So I'm alluding to a history of  assault suggestions  based on next to nothing ...which I suggest is to juice up the text .
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 20, 2011, 09:47:54 PM
So I'm alluding to a history of  assault suggestions  based on next to nothing ...which I suggest is to juice up the text .

As far as I know there is no history of such suggestions -- Eric was referring to the (alleged) Rus incident but misremembered the time and venue. To my knowledge there is no suggestion in FOTR that Olga was accosted on a train.

Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sarushka on November 20, 2011, 09:52:38 PM
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one.

Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.

To continue this train of thought, please let's shift to a more relevant thread dealing directly with Greg King's books.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on November 21, 2011, 03:04:14 AM
Sarah, in which thread exactly i can answer? i've a guess for the train thing. Thanks.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 21, 2011, 09:30:41 AM
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.
the question was asked  and remains here on this thread...the answer is

"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "

page 80

move it all where you will =)
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 21, 2011, 11:11:50 AM
I know Olga's diary stops abruptly on 15 March 1917, but there's one thing that's not clear to me: did she simply stop making entries after the revolution, or were the post-revolutionary pages removed from the diary?

I believe she just stopped, because after the last entry on March 15th, there seems to just be an empty page. Of course we will never know for sure, but I have a feeling that it was indeed her last entry.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 21, 2011, 11:23:25 AM
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.
the question was asked  and remains here on this thread...the answer is

"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "

page 80

move it all where you will =)

Yes, this is true, it says that there was a rumor that Sergei sexually molested Dimitri, "“…there were rumors that his [Sergei’s] young nephew Dimitri Pavlovich has fallen victim to his sexual appetite…. “ p. 80.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 21, 2011, 11:28:18 AM
I don't read Russian, so I put one of the earlier links to 1917 diaries/letters into Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Femalkrest.narod.ru%2Ftxt%2Fdet17.htm) At the bottom of the page is Olga's last entry and then:

"The last entry, then ripped out pages of the diary."


I will double check on my photocopies of the original diary to make sure!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 21, 2011, 06:05:27 PM
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.
the question was asked  and remains here on this thread...the answer is

"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "

page 80

move it all where you will =)

What is the basis of your claim that this is "based on next to nothing" and added to "spice up the text" in a book where I'd think it pretty uninportant? Have you researched the topic? Are you planning a work on Serge or Dmitri? Have you consulted anyone who is?

I'm sorry that this is off-topic; perhaps the relevant posts might be moved to the book's thread, as I don't really feel a need to discuss your other claims about these alleged assaults; I honestly think your posts have done their own work.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on November 22, 2011, 12:49:03 AM
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.
the question was asked  and remains here on this thread...the answer is

"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "

page 80

move it all where you will =)
I did not know about it because i don't have the book; but i remembered that also Kurth mentioned the rumor about the train rape (not only for poor Olga: for all three of them) in Tsar: the lost world, page 190 in my tranlslated edition. But he points out it was a rumor - as Bless said, maybe this idea came from the Rus rumors.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 22, 2011, 03:24:24 PM
Olga's "alleged" train rape was in Greg King's last book before the Anastasia/ Anna Anderson book.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 23, 2011, 12:23:09 PM
Olga's "alleged" train rape was in Greg King's last book before the Anastasia/ Anna Anderson book.


His last book before the "Anastasia/Anna Anderson" book (which isn't a "Greg King" book as such, but a collaboration with Penny Wilson; I have pointed out before that you shouldn't overlook co-authors because they happen to be women) was "A Season of Splendor". About the court of Caroline Astor. So I guess Olga must have taken a mysterious and forgotten trip to New York to be violated.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 23, 2011, 01:16:49 PM
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.
the question was asked  and remains here on this thread...the answer is

"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "

page 80

move it all where you will =)
I did not know about it because i don't have the book; but i remembered that also Kurth mentioned the rumor about the train rape (not only for poor Olga: for all three of them) in Tsar: the lost world, page 190 in my tranlslated edition. But he points out it was a rumor - as Bless said, maybe this idea came from the Rus rumors.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to check this out; other posters should do the same before firing off their posts.
Peter Kurth is referring to information about the behaviour of the guards on the Rus first published by Edvard Radzinsky in his "Last Tsar". His book and Radzinsky's both came out long before the discussion in "Fate of Romanovs" to which the poster named "BlessOTMA" apparently refers. Kurth has mixed up the context, and he doesn't quite say it was a rumour; he says "no one knows" what really happened. His and Radzinsky's works - and Kurth discussed questions of sexual assault in his book on Anna Anderson as well, I believe - both go to show that alleged assaults had been widely discussed years before Fate of the Romanovs appeared and examined the question to widespread hysteria and misrepresentation. 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 23, 2011, 03:12:22 PM
"  the poster named "BlessOTMA" 
lol   That strikes me as funny....however you slice and dice it....made up sexual assault would  seem to be needed for modern  publication...and a number of authors are ready to provide....Indeed, in  FOTR on pages 140-141, King and Wilson  work mightly to create  the impression there was rape ....amazing  how the attacking soldiers  some how missed all the jewels in the girl's corsets .
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 23, 2011, 03:54:42 PM
"  the poster named "BlessOTMA"  
lol   That strikes me as funny....however you slice and dice it....made up sexual assault would  seem to be needed for modern  publication...and a number of authors are ready to provide....Indeed, in  FOTR on pages 140-141, King and Wilson  work mightly to create  the impression there was rape ....amazing  how the attacking soldiers  some how missed all the jewels in the girl's corsets .

Seriously - what's funny?
You are making assertions about the imagined intentions of people you don't know right into the face of someone who was discussing this with Greg King a couple of years before the book was published, and knew even then what he thought. Yours is a futile way to frame an argument. Given the content of your first post, it would make some sort of sense if you attempted to show that

a) the discussion of alleged assaults did not predate FOTR, and FOTR states that an assault took place
b) the rumours of abuse of Dmtri Pavlovich do not exist outwith Court of the Last Tsar, and have any relevance there beyond discussion of Serge's unsavoury reputation; and
c) the story of an assault on a train, which you cheerily jumped on when mentioned by a notoriously inaccurate poster, was part of FOTR or any other Greg King book.

You do none of these things, and they are refuted here.

Sneering, laughing, jeering, libelling - go right ahead. There's nothing of substance in your posts.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 23, 2011, 04:05:33 PM
Oh hell - it has to be said, "BlessOTMA" - it seems you've a lot more interest in sexual assault than anyone you want to twit with that accusation.

Greg said it right out to me, sometime in October 2001: "I don't think any actual assault took place". I personally don't know if he's right or wrong, but it was his view. But if you prefer not to believe me - so be it. Never let it be said that you make things easy for yourself when you're in a hole.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 23, 2011, 06:22:38 PM
That is very confusing if Greg King started to poke holes in the arguments in his books. He definitely implied that in "The Fate of The Romanovs". Both Olga's alleged "assault" on the train and Marie's alleged "flirtation" that caused the family to ignore her during the last days were dynamite revelations in that book. If he did tell you Janet that he does not believe what he wrote, he lost my respect for him as a researcher. That to me is a very serious flaw...
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 23, 2011, 08:20:59 PM
That is very confusing if Greg King started to poke holes in the arguments in his books. He definitely implied that in "The Fate of The Romanovs". Both Olga's alleged "assault" on the train and Marie's alleged "flirtation" that caused the family to ignore her during the last days were dynamite revelations in that book. If he did tell you Janet that he does not believe what he wrote, he lost my respect for him as a researcher. That to me is a very serious flaw...

Oh, for heavens sake. He didn't say he "didn't believe what he wrote." He said - perhaps I should have been more precise - that he believed no rape - no physical, sexual assault - took place on the Rus. This does not rule out some form of aggressive, sexual taunting of the girls, centered on the eldest Grand Duchess above all, which left her wary of the Ekaterinburg guards and understandably less keen to interact than her sisters were.
Ultimately, none of us actually knows what happens. All we can do is lay out and examine the various accounts to the best of our ability. The much-touted Volkov isn't definitive in any sense; nor are any bragging accounts by young guards which Radzinsky turned up.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Kalafrana on November 24, 2011, 01:17:39 AM
'Seriously - what's funny?
You are making assertions about the imagined intentions of people you don't know right into the face of someone who was discussing this with Greg King a couple of years before the book was published, and knew even then what he thought. Yours is a futile way to frame an argument.'

Janet

I think you are taking a jokey comment a bit too seriously. This Forum is for serious and informed discussion, but we can still have a bit of light relief now and then, and are able to distinguish between the serious and the jokey.

Eric

It's perfectly reasonable for an author to write something he doesn't believe, i.e. when he is setting out someone else's version of events. All he says is something like, 'This is what X says happens, but there is no evidence to support this.'

Ann
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 24, 2011, 01:58:08 AM
Oh hell - it has to be said, "BlessOTMA" - it seems you've a lot more interest in sexual assault than anyone you want to twit with that accusation.

Greg said it right out to me, sometime in October 2001: "I don't think any actual assault took place". I personally don't know if he's right or wrong, but it was his view. But if you prefer not to believe me - so be it. Never let it be said that you make things easy for yourself when you're in a hole.
Well Janet, if that's how Greg feels about it, then imo that  makes the  pages of whipped up innuendo in FOTR about it even more questionable. He works quite hard to put the idea across imo.  Where did I say I didn't believe you? What I believe is my own eyes reading FOTR and  then expressing an opinion about it. What I was laughing at earlier was simply you referring to me as "  the poster called  blessOTMA, " ( which I quoted so it would be clear that's what it was )  instead of simply addressing me... the thrid person treatment was unexpectedly  hostile and therefore,  amusing. 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 24, 2011, 07:20:33 AM
Janet

I think you are taking a jokey comment a bit too seriously. This Forum is for serious and informed discussion, but we can still have a bit of light relief now and then, and are able to distinguish between the serious and the jokey.

Ann

Maybe so, Ann - but I am also a member of the forum, and I didn't catch a joke.  This sexual assault issue has a long and contentious history, here and elswehere, and has caused a great deal of emotional upset as well as simply hassle, so it's hard for me to discern a joke when people level accusations that someone is making things up and publishing them, and then say "We're all friends here; can't you take a joke."

I'll leave it there, anyway.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Penny_Wilson on November 24, 2011, 11:35:05 AM

Just a bit of insight from the "inside"...

The last months of the Romanovs cannot ever be definitively described.  The classicist Daniel Mendelsohn suggests historians frequently can only tell “the story of the story.”  Mendelsohn was writing of the Holocaust, but his theory applies equally to the Romanovs, I think.  The main players were murdered.  They are dead.  They cannot tell their own story.  Only those who committed the murder, who witnessed the murder, or who survived the murder can tell about it – and all of them can only tell their story.  In real life, each person is his own “main player” and can at best only peripherally describe what happened to others.

Greg and I agree with Mendelsohn’s theory, and we knew that in certain parts of The Fate of the Romanovs, we could only tell “the story of the story.”  And in telling “the story of the story,” we realized that if we were to competently and inclusively cover all the possibilities and probabilities (and impossibilities and improbabilities) of this story, we would have to include a number of accounts and sources that we knew would kick up controversy. 

In coming to the decision to include these (sometimes previously unacknowledged and unused) sources, we knew we would have to rely on our readership being somewhat sophisticated and discerning in that they would have to be able to sift through all the information we found and decide for themselves what the most likely scenario could have been.  We did not want to tell people what to think.  We did not want to do the sifting for our readers (though we did exclude for the sake of word-count a couple of accounts that were only of the slenderest of interest).  We knew that we would be flying in the face of the decorum and “mist of holiness” that sometimes surrounds the Romanovs if we raised the subjects of sexual violence and rape which were an undertone in many of the accounts we accessed.  But ultimately, we felt that 21st-Century readers would be markedly less sheltered than previous generations, and more open to the idea that an “idealized” prison experience probably – or possibly – didn’t happen for the Romanovs.

Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 24, 2011, 12:24:43 PM
Thanks Penny,

It has been quite awhile since we last met. I don't remember was it Arturo's conference or ED in UK ?

I agree with you that including things of controversial matter would require a more sophisticated audience to read through it. Just like in "The File On The Tsar". Many possibilities were presented. However the problem is that is we put them in the work, we must take responsibility or credit to the end product. Which is to say that it "could have been" that way at least. If not to put the debunk in the text as "I don't think this happened but there are those who suggest another scenario...". To put a suggestion and tell people "I don't believe in it" is quite irresponsible (if Janet remembered the talk with Greg correctly that is). I greatly respected the extensive research that got into "The Fate Of The Romanovs" and considered it a great piece of investigative history. Which is why I was a bit shocked in at Janet's quote.

Eric
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Penny_Wilson on November 24, 2011, 12:31:32 PM

Hi Eric!

We last met at Art's conference -- I think it was in 2001?  2002?  I went to that one and the one in 2006, IIRC.

As for The Fate of the Romanovs, and Greg and I and our research and what we wrote -- well, as far as I know, we both believe what we wrote, and stand by it.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 24, 2011, 10:42:21 PM
Penny, thanks for that very  interesting Daniel Mendelsohn perspective

I have been  reading Olga's 1913 diary lately  and as always something pops out I swear I didn't see before...for one thing when TN  returned to thier daily life after recovering from typhoid, ON says  on March 23rd "she's grown considerably taller" ...and a few days later Olga  mentions looking at colour photographs! If ONLY they were taken of the family...odd they weren't . But you can't read the diary just once to get the full benefit  I find
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on November 25, 2011, 12:49:27 AM

when TN  returned to thier daily life after recovering from typhoid, ON says  on March 23rd "she's grown considerably taller" .

Yep, it often happens, even if when we're not children anymore! In the dialect of my region this is called "crescentin" (from "crescere" = to grow) and it means that kind of fever or illness that meakes you taller, like it helps you go on growing, LOL. Alas, it never worked on me. I'm short and i remained short.
Uuuuh i WANT olga's diary. I want my copy! Xmas is near ^^
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: blessOTMA on November 25, 2011, 08:02:44 AM
when TN  returned to thier daily life after recovering from typhoid, ON says  on March 23rd "she's grown considerably taller" .
Yep, it often happens, even if when we're not children anymore! In the dialect of my region this is called "crescentin" (from "crescere" = to grow) and it means that kind of fever or illness that makes you taller, like it helps you go on growing, LOL.
that is amazing...particularly as TN was 16 at this time ( early 1913) and one would think she had gained her full height...perhaps TN would not have been as tall as she was if she hadn't gotten typhoid at this time? But I never heard of that effect of a fever, thanks for the info.
Quote
Alas, it never worked on me. I'm short and i remained short. Uuuuh i WANT olga's diary. I want my copy! Xmas is near ^^
I think you will enjoy it. But reread it now and then, it's amazing how things seem to not be there before...in the middle of who was at tea and Alix's health reports, there is often a very interesting line. 
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Sunny on November 26, 2011, 12:38:28 AM
Moreover, i can't wait to have the others diary!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 29, 2011, 02:32:40 PM
I checked my copy of the last page of the 1917 diary, and it is kind of hard to tell if it was really the last page, or if there was more and the rest was torn out. It could go either way really. The last line says that Lilly Dehn moved into the Red room, which is at the bottom of the page, and this follows by Olga's temperature chart on the next page, and there is nothing else written on that page... So I really can't tell one way or another!
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Inok Nikolai on January 30, 2012, 09:59:40 PM

Nicholas personally packed all of his previous diaries into a crate upon his departure from Tsarskoe Selo, and IMO they were never unpacked -- he repeatedly expressed concern about that crate as well as another crate of papers belonging to Alexandra when the guards began pilfering the IF's belongings from the shed in Ekaterinburg. So I think it's likely that the bulk of the girls' diaries were similarly packed away.

Maria's 1914 & 1915 diaries could have been lost or stolen. As I recall, Aleksei's 1918 diary was found at the home of one of the guards...

Once the Imperial family had arrived in Ekaterinburg, that is probably true.

But while still in Tobolsk, they must have had access to the diaries, etc.
In his letter of October 26, 1917, to his mother, Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna, Tsar Nicholas II writes that he has begun re-reading his diaries and his letters from his parents and siblings.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 31, 2012, 12:38:57 PM
Were the diaries taken back to Moscow ?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Inok Nikolai on June 20, 2014, 12:06:33 PM
Marina Petrov is a professional translator I hired when I return to the United States after my first trip to Russia in 2005. During my first trip to GARF, I made copies of some of the family’s diaries and letters (as well as other documents) and came to the decision to publish Grand Duchess Olga’s 1913 diary in order to give people a glimpse into the private life of the family. After the translation of the diary was completed, I did the editing, wrote the introduction and included an explanation of the Russian calendar in 1913, as well as a list of people Olga wrote about in her diary and their relation to her.

I want to thank everyone who has sent me private messages of congratulations. I do apologize to the people I have not yet gotten back to. Life has been kind of hectic lately, so I am taking a much needed vacation soon. Also, thanks to the people who knew about this project of mine long before it was ever mentioned here on the forum. Your words of encouragement and interest in the book were so kind. Yes, that includes you Teddy! Thank you!


Dear Raegan, or Marina,

Do you still have the copies of the Russian text?

On p. 133 of your book, you cite  G. D. Olga's entry for Oct. 7: "…N. P. [Sablin] is taking the harp player to Sevastopol…"

Am I correct to presume that "harp player" is in the feminine form? I.e., the player was female?

N. P. Sablin later married one, so perhaps this is the same woman. Empress Alexandra Feodorovna wrote  to A. A. Vyrubova about it from captivity in Tobolsk.

Spasibo!
I. N.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Padawan Ryan on June 20, 2014, 05:55:57 PM
Warm in the heart maybe ? In Russia it is very cold, so 20 maybe warm in comparison...

If you're talking Celsius, which is what they use in Russia, then it is indeed fairly warm. Here in Canada 20˚ C (68˚ F) is seen as warm - with the humidity we get sometimes, something like about 18˚ can make a person overheat. Hell, anything over 15˚ C (59˚ F) is TOO hot for me most of the time. However, it does all depend on the weather you've recently been experiencing - we had weather here of -50˚ C this past January (which is about -58˚ F) and after something like that, even -20˚ C (that's -4˚ F) is seen as warm. Yet when it comes to the temperature dropping after the summer, something like 10˚ C (50˚ F) which would've been shorts weather at the end of the winter is hoodie weather and chilly after the summer. So if winter is ending for her, then something like 20˚ C would DEFINITELY be considered warm, if not HOT. Even at the end of summer it's still considered warm over here, however it doesn't feel quite as hot as it does when winter is ending. Comparing cold temperatures to hot temperatures at different times of year definitely gives a different perspective on what is considered 'warm' or not.



I know that's an older post, and it doesn't directly relate to the topic at hand, but I was reading through here and thought to add my two cents. My sister's ex-boyfriend (and the father of her child) is actually from Russia, and he says the weather there is pretty much almost the same to what we experience here in Canada (specifically Northern Ontario), so I figured my explanation on weather may help to explain what Olga explained as 'warm weather'.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Kalafrana on June 22, 2014, 02:00:19 AM
In Russia at the time they were using the Reaumur scale, at which freezing point is 0 and boiling point 80.

According to wikipedia, you convert Reaumur to celsius by multiplying the temperature by 5/4 and to fahrenheit by multiplying by 9/5 and adding 32.

20 reaumur is therefore 25 celsius, so decidedly warm!

Ann
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Inok Nikolai on June 22, 2014, 12:18:48 PM
In Russia at the time they were using the Reaumur scale, at which freezing point is 0 and boiling point 80.

According to wikipedia, you convert Reaumur to celsius by multiplying the temperature by 5/4 and to fahrenheit by multiplying by 9/5 and adding 32.

20 reaumur is therefore 25 celsius, so decidedly warm!

Ann

Well, yes and no. Russia had used several temperature scales during the 18th and 19th centuries. For example, in Dostoevsky's "Brothers Karamazov", Reaumur is indeed the scale mentioned.
However, by the turn of the century -- the period covered by most of the letters and diaries cited here on the Forum -- the celsius scale predominated. By then, if Reaumur was meant, then, to avoid ambiguity, one would write the word "Reaumur" or "R." after the digits -- as Pierre Gilliard did in his diary entries.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Kalafrana on June 22, 2014, 02:16:16 PM
Inok Nikolai

Many thanks. I do, however, distinctly remember seeing an extract from Alexei's diary a good few years ago, where he went swimming and gave the water temperature. The commentary made it clear thar reaumur was meant, and this has stuck in my head because it was the first time I had ever heard of it.

Be that as it may, 20 Fahrenheit is below freezing, 20 Celsius is warm (pleasant summer temperature for Brits), and 20 reaumur hot (for a Brit anyway - we are currently getting 25-25 Celsius and most of us are feeling the heat!).

Ann
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Helen_Azar on June 22, 2014, 02:24:47 PM
Inok Nikolai

Many thanks. I do, however, distinctly remember seeing an extract from Alexei's diary a good few years ago, where he went swimming and gave the water temperature. The commentary made it clear thar reaumur was meant, and this has stuck in my head because it was the first time I had ever heard of it.

Be that as it may, 20 Fahrenheit is below freezing, 20 Celsius is warm (pleasant summer temperature for Brits), and 20 reaumur hot (for a Brit anyway - we are currently getting 25-25 Celsius and most of us are feeling the heat!).

Ann

25 Celsius is hot for this American-Russian too ;).   I was also under the impression that the temperature Olga used in her diary was Celsius, but it would make sense if it was reaumur. The diaries of course don't mention it one way or another.
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: matushka on June 23, 2014, 06:18:44 AM
Father Nikolai, did you recently have a look at Spiridovitch book? I have not the tome for 1913 (the 2nd), but Spiridovitch gives always so much details, perhaps is there anything about the harpist?
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Inok Nikolai on June 27, 2014, 12:43:20 PM
Inok Nikolai

Many thanks. I do, however, distinctly remember seeing an extract from Alexei's diary a good few years ago, where he went swimming and gave the water temperature. The commentary made it clear thar reaumur was meant, and this has stuck in my head because it was the first time I had ever heard of it.

Ann

Well, yes. But in this instance, we are both correct:

Tsarevich Alexis did indeed record the temperature in Réaumur, and he also noted that fact in writing.

 It is an excerpt from his diary entry for July 31 / August 13, 1917 — the Imperial family’s last day in Tsarskoe Selo before departing for Tobolsk. A photograph of that page of his diary appeared in N. Sokolov’s official investigation into their murders, and it has been reproduced many times since.

Tsarevich Alexis Nicholaevich wrote: «Днемъ купался. Въ воде 18° Р.»

“In the afternoon I went swimming. In water 18° R.”

And the commentators explain that the letter “R.” here stands for Réaumur.

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In order to share more information on this whole topic of temperatures, I am going to open a new thread "Temperature Scales in NAOTMAA’s Letters and Diaries” under the board “Their World and Culture”, q.v.

Inok Nikolai
Title: Re: 1913 Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaievna, transl. by Marina Petrov
Post by: Inok Nikolai on June 27, 2014, 01:14:43 PM
Quote


In order to share more information on this whole topic of temperatures, I am going to open a new thread "Temperature Scales in NAOTMAA’s Letters and Diaries” under the board “Their World and Culture”, q.v.

Inok Nikolai

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17924.msg536459#msg536459