Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Maria Nicholaievna => Topic started by: Angie_H on December 02, 2004, 08:57:58 AM

Title: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Angie_H on December 02, 2004, 08:57:58 AM
Louis was in love with Marie and kept a picture of her by his bed til he died. If the Revolution had not happened they wouldn't have been able to marry anyway right? They were first cousins and if Nicholas wouldn't let Michael marry Baby Bee I don't see him letting Marie marry Louis
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Lanie on December 02, 2004, 12:16:15 PM
I think he just had  a boyish crush on her--not in love with her. :)  I do remember reading him saying he was "crackers for Marie [sic]" and something about how she was so beautiful or something.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Jane on December 02, 2004, 02:23:21 PM
I agree with Lanie.  Undoubtedly, as a child, Lord Mountbatten harbored a crush on his cousin.  I'm guessing the manner of her death caused sorrow for him, and he always kept a portrait of her.  However, I am unaware of any serious thoughts either family had of the two marrying as adults.

Lord Mountbatten had a very long and happy marriage; Edwina Ashley was the love of his life, not Marie.  Louis and Edwina really were ideally suited for each other.  
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Martyn on December 02, 2004, 02:39:03 PM
Erm, it may well be that Dickie and Edwina's marriage was a little more complex than 'long and happy' depending on what you read and to whom you listen....
Marie and Dickie could have married - if she had changed her religion...........
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on December 02, 2004, 02:49:44 PM
There is "THINGYIE" again.

Apparently Louis was attracted to Mashka's beauty and found her charming as a child. As there was only a one year age difference and they were first cousins there was an understandable attachment. As a child he apparently vowed that when they grew up he would marry her. And yes he did keep a photograph of her in his bedroom all the way up until his death. How sweet. I believe that this was just a crush though. Certainly Maria's death must have been hard to cope with and he probably aleays felt a special love for her, but Edwina was his one true love.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on December 02, 2004, 03:04:29 PM
I just posted two photos of Louis with his Russian cousins on the "Pictures of the Battenbergs" thread if anyone is interested. I thought they would more appropriate there as neither are solely of Maria and Louis.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Jane on December 02, 2004, 03:10:02 PM
Martyn, I'm sure you did not intend the "Erm..." at the start of your post to come across as sarcasm, although I must confess to me it did sound that way; in the interest of happy discourse, allow me to expand my post a bit.

I'm sure that Louis and Edwina's marriage was complex--most marriages are, especially one that is long in duration, and with the added layer of historical events and personages that played so significantly in their marriage.  And in any marriage, there are often disagreements, there may be infidelities by one or both partners (and there may very well have been from time to time in the Mountbatten marriage, by both of them), and things may not always be rosy.

But the Mountbattens had a strong and committed partnership.  Mountbatten himself has described Edwina as his true love, in words to that effect.  They relied on each other, they respected each other, and if doing that for thirty or forty years, or however long it was they were married before she died, doesn't constitute a long and happy marriage, then God help the state of matrimony.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Angie_H on December 02, 2004, 04:38:10 PM
Quote
I just posted two photos of Louis with his Russian cousins on the "Pictures of the Battenbergs" thread if anyone is interested. I thought they would more appropriate there as neither are solely of Maria and Louis.

Thanks Eddy!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: BobAtchison on December 02, 2004, 06:40:13 PM
Nicholas was closer to George V than to any other monarch and this relationship deepened in the first two years of WWI.  It's obvious both families held open the possibility of a Romanov Princess as a bride for David.  Had the Russian throne survived and Russia stayed in the war such an alliance would have made a lot of sense and would have been more acceptable to Brituish public opinion.

The war made it impossible to put the families together so it was impossible to see how either Olga or Tatiana might have responded to David as they grew up.  That would have had to wait until after the end of the war.


Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Luke on December 02, 2004, 11:58:56 PM
Except Louis Mountbatten was definitely not ebenburtig, although one can argue that as the 20th century progressed, the "even born" requirement necessarily weakened.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 05, 2004, 12:26:38 PM
I found this picture of Louis and his two nieces Princesses Maragirta and Theodora of Greece in a toy car named " Marie"   does that ring a bell. that Louis really liked his cousin Marie Nikolaiovna.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/romanov66005.jpg)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 05, 2004, 01:11:22 PM
While technically Louis Mountbatten was not "equal", I don't think that would have precluded a marriage to Marie. What would have been a factor for Nicholas is his being her first cousin. However, had the dynasty not fallen and the two wished to marry, I am hopeful that they could have overcome his objections and Nicholas could have declared him Equal. This is exactly what Nicholas I did when his Maria Nicholievna wished to marry Eugene de Beauharnais.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Georgiy on December 12, 2004, 03:33:34 PM
But she couldn't have married him anyway as they were first cousins, and in the Orthodox Church you can't marry a first cousin.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 12, 2004, 03:59:10 PM
Actually, if you had read my post, you would have discovered they could. The Orthodox prohibition against cousin marriages did not apply specifically to first cousin marriages - it applied against all of them. And, if you go back far enough, we are all cousins.

Be that as it may, I believe Nicholas II would have permitted this particular marriage had he believed it to be in MN's best interests. As Tsar and head of the church, it was within his power to do so,
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Martyn on December 13, 2004, 04:30:39 PM
Jane, my apologies.  I missed your reply to my earlier post.  Must have been busy elsewhere, pouring cold water on other people's ideals.  Nevertheless, many thanks for the clarification of your point, most enlightening.....
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Helen_Azar on December 18, 2004, 01:56:58 PM
Quote
Louis was in love with Marie and kept a picture of her by his bed til he died.  
 

Does anyone have a copy of this particular photo?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 18, 2004, 01:58:31 PM
Quote
 

Does anyone have a copy of this particular photo?



I think I do,..I look soon. :)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Lanie on December 18, 2004, 02:19:13 PM
It wasone of the 1914 portraits of Maria...this one I believe (sorry for the bad scan):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/LanieD/maria1914_3.jpg)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Helen_Azar on December 18, 2004, 02:40:29 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: James_Davidov on December 22, 2004, 08:22:34 AM


I love to think of the photo beside Lord Mountbatten’s bed of the Grand Duchess Marie… To presume the two would have married based on this is unlikely (also considering the issues with them being first cousins).  One can assume that L.M held such an enduring affection for the G.D because of the nature of her personality, beauty and more importantly, the traumatic events of her and her family’s murders.  The G.D and the tragedy of her death would have been a great shock, and a sense of mourning most likely remained with him (hence the photo beside his bed).  Whatever the case, I view it as yet another romantic footnote in royal history – “the old English Lord whom never forgot his childhood love, the Russian Grand Duchess, so tragically taken.”
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: _duchess on March 13, 2005, 09:38:00 PM
Quote
I think he just had  a boyish crush on her--not in love with her.


I'm sure that he was very happy with his wife etc and they probably wouldn't have married, but I think that there was probably always a special part of his heart that belonged to Maria.  :'( So sweet and romantic...
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on March 29, 2005, 12:14:58 PM
Quote
It wasone of the 1914 portraits of Maria...this one I believe (sorry for the bad scan):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/LanieD/maria1914_3.jpg)


You are right, I knew it was one of the 1914 pictures. I really love that picture of her, she looks so sweet and pretty in it!  :D
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: imperial angel on August 29, 2005, 08:26:10 PM
When I was first getting into the romanovs, and I found out about Louis of Mountbatten and Marie, about them being cousins, and the fact that Lord Louis always had an enduring love for Marie, I was surprised. He lived a much longer life than she, although he also died tragically. Both of them were murdered; he after a long and sucessful life, and she at only 19, not given the chance to accomplish much. Marie seems to belong to a different era; it is hard to imagine her alive in the later 20th century, dealing with the modern era. But if she had lived, perhaps she and Lord Louis would have married. They had an affinity for one another. It would have been interesting to see if it developed into anything more. Lord Louis had a long but complicated marriage with Edwina Ashley. Edwina was a complex, strong woman, quite unlike the simple, easygoing Marie. They were very different women, but since Lord Louis was rather complex himself, and lived a life that had much drama, perhaps he would have been happier with Marie, because she would not have been as volatile. His life might have been more peaceful. After World War I the first there were not so many restrictions hemming in Royal marriages. Also, in practice, if not in theory, female Romanovs were freerer to marry as they wanted since their children would not be Romanovs of russia, carrying on the blood. Had they wished, Grand Duchess Marie and Lord Louis (who was born a prince, but had to change his title when it seemed too German during World War I), would probably have been allowed to marry. He was Royal, just not as much as the Romanovs. Tsarvich Alexei, for instance would have had to marry nothing but a perfectly royal Princess. But Marie, as the third daughter of the Czar, might have been allowed to marry Lord Louis. The rules would have been applied harder had it been a Grand Duke, not a Grand Duchess. But then again,there were rules , and Marie would have had to observe them. It would probably have been her fathers choice. It is one of the might have beens, though. Tragedy intervened and Grand Duchess Marie was denied the long, productive life she deserved. Sorry I got too lengthy here. ;)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: strom on September 11, 2005, 08:58:03 PM
In the first place, Lord Mountbatton was an invert.  While that may not have precluded a marriage with the GD. Marie, I think the Empress Alexandra might have had second thoughts on the matter.  There are other legends that add poignancy to the fates of Louis and Marie but that takes one into the murkier depths of non-history which is not to say that "life after death" is not impossible, even in the corporeal state --a monarch without a throne is hardly living.    
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: imperial angel on November 08, 2005, 10:10:32 AM
It would have been a very interesting marriage, undountedly. To Lord Mountbatten, Marie perhaps remained a distant, fairytale figure of youth, whom he might have married, or might have not at the same time. It wasn't serious in the way of marriage at the time of her death. At any rate, how well can we predict the woman Marie would have become? We don't know.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sarastasia on December 30, 2005, 12:12:15 PM
LOUIS OF MOUNTBATTEN!!! I can't believe it! lol
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: calebGmoney on December 31, 2005, 03:45:34 PM
I cetainly hope she would not have been attracted to him. She's so beautiful and elegant and deserved the same for herself.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sarastasia on December 31, 2005, 05:39:17 PM
I agree! Either way, he did not deserve her!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: imperial angel on January 10, 2006, 10:56:15 AM
It is an interesting question if he deserved her or not.. I think he did alot in his life, and accomplished alot, and seems like an interesting guy from his biography, but would their personalities have been compatible? He seems to have the type who would do better with someone like Olga, or someone like the woman he did eventually marry, someone more volatile.Marie might have been too staid for him. I think he might have deserved her, but it doesn't seem like a match made in heaven. It is a good story though from the viewpoint of history, someone like Lord Mountbatten having a youthful fondness for someone like Marie. ;)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: SyrinXXXian on January 13, 2006, 12:27:01 AM
Hello folks, new to the forum. It's been over ten years since I had laid my eyes on anything Imperial Russian. I'm starting to get back into it and this forum is quite good. These days I find The Grand Duchess Marie quite of an interest as opposed to the rest of the Grand Duchesses. Her beauty is quite captivating as I recall looking at them old pictures. It still gives me goosebumps everytime. I'm surprised artists of her day never paid much attentioned to her since she's definately the most beautiful princess in Europe if not her time.
ANyways, my two cent to this topic. From what I can remember Marie was quite as fond of Mountbatten(Not necessarily having a crush feeling the latter had for the Grand Duchess, who really knows?). She didn't seem to find it too far fetched of an idea when he vowed that he'd marry her someday. In theory I really think that Mountbatten would've totally woo her in the later years if the Imperial family had survived the war. Mountbatten was just as noble as any other Princes at the time and like someone said eventually had quite a career. Technically, he is a prince by birth, even though the title was taken away from him. Princesses in europe had been known to marry a man born to a lesser nobility. Although eventually religion might've indeed came into play.
Their brief history together is like a modern day fairy tale ended tragedically.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: imperial angel on January 13, 2006, 08:29:17 AM
Well, it would have been very interesting for history if these two had married, and they might have been well matched. I enjoyed the post above, and I woundn't just dismiss Lord Mountbatten and Grand Duchess Marie being a good couple if things had gone another way. And yes, she was the most beautiful Princess in Europe. ;D
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: lilavanderhorn on January 13, 2006, 11:46:23 AM
I would like to think that N&A would have relented and let their daughters marry morganatically.  The world was changing, not to mention none of them were in the line of succession, so it would not have mattered too much whether or not their children were fully royal.  I can imagine that Marie and Anastasia, if left to themselves would have loved the "flapper lifestyle" had they been allowed to enter it.  Skirt hems went up, and corsets came off.  I do not think they would be as wild as Felix and Dimitri, but they would have certainly enjoyed the parties, not to mention the attention from young men; being that Marie was a natural flirt, and Anastasia follwed her lead.  Alexandra would have been scandalised with the modern ideas and fashions of the 20s and Olga and Tatiana would have done their duty and stay true to her wishes.  As elder daughters, I think more was expected of them.  For Marie to marry Lord Montbatten instead of  some young officer would probably have been a relief for Alix.  However, given that she seemed to be the type to "fall in love" quickly, a commoner would have more likely caught her eye than her cousin who was hundreds of miles away.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ortino on January 14, 2006, 08:24:40 AM
Quote
I would like to think that  I do not think they would be as wild as Felix and Dimitri, but they would have certainly enjoyed the parties, not to mention the attention from young men; being that Marie was a natural flirt, and Anastasia follwed her lead.  

 
Actually, in terms of behavior, it was the other way around. Marie was dominated by Anastasia. I believe that Anastasia would have enjoyed the uninhibited nature of later parties more than attention from young man given her personality. Marie, of course, would have undoubtedly preferred the attention.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Georgiy on January 15, 2006, 02:05:11 PM
But I wonder, if it hadn't been for the horrors of the war and (political) disruption and chaos across Europe, would the 20s have turned out as they did? Maybe there would have been no flappers etc. Perhaps just a slow decline of Edwardian sensibilities instead...
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2006, 07:44:58 PM
You could also look at it as they would've enjoyed the times of the 1920s if they'd survived, not just if WW1 hadn't occured. The world probably would've unfolded much the same way.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: imperial angel on January 16, 2006, 10:13:47 AM
Yes, I think Anastasia and Marie would have enjoyed the twenties, no doubt for various reasons. Anastasia was very unininibited, and Marie enjoyed attention from handsome young officers ;), so that would have fit. As for marriage, Marie might have just had someone catch her eye,too true. And undoubtedly Alexandra would have approved of her marrying Lord Mountbatten more than some officer..the might have been's of history.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Nathalie on June 28, 2006, 10:07:30 AM
Could somebody tell me the name of that English prince, who fell in love with Marie and he kept her photo with her till the day he died? I have read about it here, but I can't find it anymore :(
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ortino on June 28, 2006, 12:44:33 PM
That would be Louis Mountbatten.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: rosieposie on July 03, 2006, 09:36:15 AM
Yeah, it is such a shame that Nicholas didnt accept his offer.  Louis was a hottie.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on July 03, 2006, 12:09:13 PM
 ;D i havn't heard of him!

do you have a picture of him?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: granduchess_leah on August 09, 2006, 01:37:53 PM
Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten who was he ,he said he wanted to marry marie

"I was mad about her, and determined to marry her. You could not imagine anyone more beautiful than she was [. . .]" -- Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ortino on August 09, 2006, 04:46:50 PM
He was the son of Prince Louis of Battenberg (later Mountbatten). He was a British statesman and admiral as well as the uncle of Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh.

In the future, please try to use proper grammar and punctuation.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: amelia on August 09, 2006, 06:28:07 PM
He was also the son of Princess Victoria of Hesse, sister of Alexandra. In the book, Flrght of the Romanovs, it is mentioned that Lord Louis Mountbatten had Maria's photograph  by his bedside table, till he died.

Amelia
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Amelie on August 10, 2006, 09:47:45 PM
Does anyone have a picture of this Louis Mountbatten--"back in the day"? I tried meta search, but all I could find were recent pictures.

Oh right, and what was his rank; was he a count or something? I know Ortino said he was a "British Statesman." Enlighten me, please, for I don't really know what a "Statesman" is actually (I feel so stupid asking this; I should probably try paying more attention in history!)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: otmafan on August 10, 2006, 10:25:26 PM
He was born Prince Louis of Battenburg, then became Lord Louis Mountbatten. He was also First Sea Lord, Viceroy of India, and Earl of Burma.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/otmafan/190020Louis-11.jpg)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 10, 2006, 11:56:53 PM
He was Prince Charles's favorite uncle.  Sadly, he was killed in 1979 when IRA terrorists blew up his yacht when he was vacationing in Ireland.  Also killed was his grandson, Nicholas, whose twin brother, Timothy, was injured in the explosion.

He was very popular in India, from what I've read, as he helped work towards Indian independence.  He and his wife, Edwina, had a close relationship with Mahatma Gandhi.

I'm reading the Philip Ziegler bio right now.  Mountbatten is a favorite of mine.  A very fascinating individual. 
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: granduchess_leah on August 11, 2006, 05:07:55 AM
awww that so sweet,true love i must say  :P ;D :D ;) :)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 11, 2006, 09:39:49 AM
he must have lived an exciting life!
such a patriotic...

thank you for the information!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 11, 2006, 10:10:21 AM
He really did.  When his father, Prince Louis of Battenberg, was First Sea Lord at the outbreak of WWI, the admiralty or whoever had him sacked because he was German.  Mountbatten then vowed that some day, he would be FSL, as a way of avenging his father.

Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 12, 2006, 11:32:42 AM
He really did.  When his father, Prince Louis of Battenberg, was First Sea Lord at the outbreak of WWI, the admiralty or whoever had him sacked because he was German.  Mountbatten then vowed that some day, he would be FSL, as a way of avenging his father.


talk about revenge!

did he have any siblings?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Prince_Lieven on August 12, 2006, 11:44:51 AM
Yes, he did - Princess Alice of Battenberg (1885-1969, mother of Prince Philip), Princess Louise of Battenberg, later Queen of Sweden (1889-1965) and Prince George of Battenberg, Marquis of Milford Haven (1892-1938). His father, Prince Louis, also had an affair with Edward VII's mistress, Lilly Langtry, and had a daughter with her, Jeanne Marie Langtry.  ;)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 12, 2006, 12:49:39 PM
thank you for the information
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 12, 2006, 04:43:39 PM
I hope Louis Sr.'s affair with Langtry was BEFORE his marriage.   :o

ETA: I looked it up and it was indeed before he married Victoria.  Good. 

I found a picture of Mountbatten's wedding-Phillip's sisters were bridesmaids. 


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/History/mountbatten3.jpg)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Rachael89 on August 13, 2006, 01:56:38 PM
Here's his Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma

He was never a serious suitor, for a start the fact that they were cousins cancelled out any thought of marriage, also they were only children when they knew each other (about 11.) He was clearly love-struck with her though and I think it is very sweet that he kept a photo of her by his bedside, I beleive it was this photo from the 1914 formals (though obviously not in colour!):

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/Rachael89/th_mariacol2.jpg) (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/Rachael89/mariacol2.jpg)

Best

Rachael
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 13, 2006, 02:41:51 PM
great picture of marie!
did you color it?

yeah but i was sorta freacked out when he did have a picture by him... its kind of stalkerish
i mean thats what i first thought

but then again i thought it was cute that he was smitten with her.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 13, 2006, 04:26:14 PM
Well, not so much cousins, as they were first cousins and since Maria was Orthodox, that was against her religion.  Of course, Ducky managed it with Kyril, so if things HAD gotten serious, you never knew. 

But no, at the time it was just puppy love, and very cute.  He seems to have been very close to his Russian relatives.  So they might just have had one of those little childhood flirtations. 

Perhaps we should move the other Mountbatten topic to the Windsor forums? 
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 13, 2006, 07:09:44 PM
yeah we should

yeah im sure the girls flirted with all their cousins

but now adays that would be so gross. but that was the custom back then so it was ok!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 14, 2006, 12:10:31 AM
And keep in mind, most likely you didn't see your cousins as frequently, so they were practically strangers. 

And since you had to marry royalty, or at least, VERY high up nobility, there weren't that many options.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Rachael89 on August 14, 2006, 03:36:30 AM
Hi, yeah I did the colouring!

Rachael
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 14, 2006, 08:18:39 AM
And keep in mind, most likely you didn't see your cousins as frequently, so they were practically strangers. 

And since you had to marry royalty, or at least, VERY high up nobility, there weren't that many options.


oh they didn't see them often i thought like every few months they did... beaucse there seems to be alot of pictures seeing them

but then again there are huge gaps between the time line. so i quess your right!

great job racheal!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Amelie on August 14, 2006, 09:09:50 PM
Yeah, it is such a shame that Nicholas didnt accept his offer.  Louis was a hottie.

A hottie? Haha...the whole idea of any one of them being a "hottie" makes me giggle. Cute or handsome maybe; certainly not a "hottie"!

You have to ask yourself, though, how smitten could one be at 11(or whenever it was  :))? It's rather superficial, I think, for it seems Louis was not in love with GD Marie herself, but how "beautiful" she was. Relationships that exist merely because of the physical attraction never last long. I think it was in everyone's best interest that Nicholas refused Louis's offer. (Actually, did Louis even make an offer, or did he just comment on how much he would like to marry Marie?)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 14, 2006, 09:47:18 PM
to true... but i agree they were little kids. who knows if he only liked her for her looks
or he really did like her for her.
we will never know

but keep in mind they tiny little kids
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 14, 2006, 11:33:22 PM
No, no offer-they were only children.  I think it's rather sweet.  Remember, Maria was quite a little flirt, from what we've read, and rather a romantic.  I don't think there's anything wrong with puppy love like that. 

And in his day, Louis was considered QUITE the eligible bachelor and very dashing and charming.  He looked a bit like Cary Grant-not as handsome as Grant, of course, but there's a slight resemblance.



Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 15, 2006, 09:03:54 AM
was he anything like carol?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 15, 2006, 04:07:44 PM
was he anything like carol?

Who Louis?  Absolutely not!  Although he and Edwina definitely had an open relationship.  And yeah, he could be a bit of a drama queen, a very flamboyant and sometimes overwhelming personality.  But all in all, a pretty good guy. 

Wasn't he one of the ones who helped raise Prince Phillip, when the latter's parent split?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 15, 2006, 04:54:27 PM
edwina who?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 15, 2006, 06:05:41 PM
Sorry-Edwina Ashley, Louis's wife. 

Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Prince_Lieven on August 15, 2006, 06:27:53 PM


Wasn't he one of the ones who helped raise Prince Phillip, when the latter's parent split?

Yes, he was pretty much a surrogate father to Philip. He also had a major hand in arranging Philip's marriage to Princess Elizabeth, and was not best pleased when she announced that her family name would remain Windsor.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 15, 2006, 08:21:17 PM


Wasn't he one of the ones who helped raise Prince Phillip, when the latter's parent split?

Yes, he was pretty much a surrogate father to Philip. He also had a major hand in arranging Philip's marriage to Princess Elizabeth, and was not best pleased when she announced that her family name would remain Windsor.

wait he maried Elizabeth of Greece?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Guinastasia on August 15, 2006, 08:55:28 PM
No, he didn't.  Prince Phillip, aka the Duke of Edinburgh, consort of Elizabeth II of UK.  Mountbatten's oldest sister, Princess Alice, was Phillip's mother.  SHE married Prince Andrew of Greece, and Phillip was their only son and youngest child.  He was much younger than his older sisters, and when he little, his mother had a nervous breakdown, his father was jailed in Greece for treason (why, I have no idea, I don't believe he committed treason), and Phillip was largely taken care of by various relatives.  After Alice got better, she wasn't around as much-she became a nun in all but name (I don't think she ever formerly took vows), and so Phillip was passed around among his relatives.



Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 16, 2006, 12:42:03 PM
OH!
well that expalins it.. i was like WHAT?
thats impossible!
thanks for the information  ;D
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: imperial angel on August 29, 2006, 11:22:04 AM
It was just a harmless flirtation, Marie was always a bit of a flirt. I think she and Louis had an innocent childhood crush, and certainly Marie was beautiful, and he was attracted to that, but it wasn't serious that he was only attracted to her in that way. They might have married, although in theory they were not supposed to, they were both royal so it's more likely than her marrying a soldier or something.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 18, 2007, 04:08:21 PM
Is this the Louis Mountbatten, who was supposed to have Maria´s photo on his nighttable all his life?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma#Personal_life
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sarushka on November 18, 2007, 04:14:03 PM
Yes. It says so in the "Ancestry" section, in the second paragraph right above the family tree.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 18, 2007, 04:24:21 PM
Oh!

I didn´t notice it!

Thank you Sarushka! You have much better eyes and wit than I do.

But he was surely handsome:)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on November 21, 2007, 11:25:49 AM
what year did he start visiting Imperial Russia and the family?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Rachael89 on November 23, 2007, 05:44:21 PM
When he was a very small boy, I have a book about him and there is a photo taken when he was only a toddler being led on a pony by Maria P. during a visit to his Aunt Ella circa. 1903.

I think the main holiday he spent with the IF was in 1910, I'm not sure though, I'm at college so I don't have the book with me.

I hope that helps!

Rachael
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on November 24, 2007, 11:42:11 AM
yes it does :D
thanks for the info!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: anna11 on November 24, 2007, 05:43:06 PM
In The Lost Prince, Prince John is an admirer of Marie. Any truth in that?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: imperial angel on November 25, 2007, 05:14:27 PM
I think that was exaggerated, I thought I read that on a thread a long time ago- Prince John didn't admire Marie in particular I don't think- not like Lord Louis did. The stuff about the future Earl Moutbatten is true though. I am not sure of specific dates, but there certainly seems to be many holiday photos from the early 1900s of him with his cousins OTMA. There are some old threads that haven't been posted to in forever about Earl Mountbatten and Marie.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on November 25, 2007, 07:15:19 PM
oh thank you!
do you have any pictures?

i'm sure i've seen some.. but don't recall him!!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: s.v.markov on December 04, 2007, 08:53:34 AM
In 'The Camera and the Tsars' Charlotte Zeepvat includes a photo (page 128) which shows GD Marie and Anastasia on an outing to the Munzenberg on 5th September 1910 (during the Schloss Friedburg visit). Ms Zeepvat adds : ' Both families (that is, the IF and Hesse clans) were present. One of the elder GD's can be glimpsed in the background and the boy with the Eton collar and flat cap is probably Prince Louis of Battenberg, later Lord Mountbatten.'  In the photo he certainly seems to be following Maria and Anastasia! If someone could post the photo it would be helpful, as I am unable to do so from here.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: grandduchess_42 on December 05, 2007, 08:35:40 PM
In 'The Camera and the Tsars' Charlotte Zeepvat includes a photo (page 128) which shows GD Marie and Anastasia on an outing to the Munzenberg on 5th September 1910 (during the Schloss Friedburg visit). Ms Zeepvat adds : ' Both families (that is, the IF and Hesse clans) were present. One of the elder GD's can be glimpsed in the background and the boy with the Eton collar and flat cap is probably Prince Louis of Battenberg, later Lord Mountbatten.'  In the photo he certainly seems to be following Maria and Anastasia! If someone could post the photo it would be helpful, as I am unable to do so from here.

OH! i have that book..
bah! i wish my scanner was working :(
i'm sure sarushka has it.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Holly on December 12, 2007, 08:48:34 AM
Here's the picture s.v. markov wants to post:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/Romanov_Albums/th_Agfa_ScanWise_1-1.jpg) (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/Romanov_Albums/Agfa_ScanWise_1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: ~Aura Angel~ on December 14, 2007, 02:00:00 PM
Do you ppl think I look like one of the Grand duchesses, and if so . . which one?

(http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh261/hillaryisoliver/?action-view&current=Picture001.jpg)

Not the best picture . .  :-[
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on December 14, 2007, 02:46:07 PM
Ha! thats a cute picture, and you can see Louis following them....thats just so cute!  ;D ;D
wasnt Louis like a year or so younger than Maria?  ???
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: ~Aura Angel~ on December 14, 2007, 02:51:53 PM
LOL!! my picture didnt work,

Hope this is better . .

(http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh261/hillaryisoliver/?action-view&current=Picture001.jpg)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: rosieposie on December 20, 2007, 01:49:33 AM
Yes it does look like he is following Maria and Anastasia.  I'm thinking he is blushing in the pic cause he got caught lol.   That is a sweet photo of them.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: jehan on December 20, 2007, 09:49:20 AM
Yes it does look like he is following Maria and Anastasia.  I'm thinking he is blushing in the pic cause he got caught lol.   That is a sweet photo of them.

While it is a nice picture, I'm sure they were all just going in the same direction.  Probably going somewhere together, along with the woman behind, the person in front who took the picture and probably a few others in front.  I wouldn't read too much into an isolated picture. ;-)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Olga Maria on November 03, 2009, 09:49:49 PM
In 'The Camera and the Tsars' Charlotte Zeepvat includes a photo (page 128) which shows GD Marie and Anastasia on an outing to the Munzenberg on 5th September 1910 (during the Schloss Friedburg visit). Ms Zeepvat adds : ' Both families (that is, the IF and Hesse clans) were present. One of the elder GD's can be glimpsed in the background and the boy with the Eton collar and flat cap is probably Prince Louis of Battenberg, later Lord Mountbatten.'  In the photo he certainly seems to be following Maria and Anastasia! If someone could post the photo it would be helpful, as I am unable to do so from here.

(To anybody who has the book of Camera and The Tsars) Will someone mind to scan this picture described in the post above? Thank you very much in advanced to the one who has a very good heart! 
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 04, 2009, 03:11:00 AM
(http://nd01.blog.cz/378/994/b0ba934a47_39997321_o2.jpg)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Olga Maria on November 04, 2009, 06:53:25 AM
Thank you oh very, very much, Ally! God bless you! Tho’ I have that picture for a long time already, it’s just today that I knew Dicki Mountbatten was behind them! I think he was stalking Maria based on his location and position. That’s how I stalk my crush, too (sorry for this off-topic sentence).
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Kalafrana on November 04, 2009, 09:11:43 AM
'In The Lost Prince, Prince John is an admirer of Marie. Any truth in that?'

Prince John could not have been an admirer of Marie's in any romantic sense (though he may have liked her as an older cousin). The only time they could have met was when Nicholas and family visited Britain in 1909. John was four years old!

Ann
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Carisbrooke on November 05, 2009, 01:52:41 AM
The munzenberg picture has always driven me nuts. I seem to have looked at every photo of the castle on the net searching for this location. I have also found a castle plan on the net & I still can't make out where it is.

Anyone know ?
Anyone been to munzenberg ?

Nice outfits by the way, & who is that strange girl to maria's left. ..........   Only joking of course, but doesn't she look odd.

As to louis ever marrying maria, surely he must have known this would be a non-starter. My opinion only you understand.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Olga Maria on November 05, 2009, 02:35:37 AM
The one with Maria is Anastasia ;-)



Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Carisbrooke on November 05, 2009, 06:55:00 AM
Many thanks princess. I knew I should have used a smiley in "who's that strange girl". Any misunderstanding is totally my fault.

I was commenting on her general expression, perhaps she's playing the fool as usual. It is a nice photo of maria though, & thank you for your early reply.   
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 06, 2009, 12:40:33 PM
This photo is very beautiful, they look very well with these big hats ;-)
And thanks for the info related to it ;-)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: RealAnastasia on November 06, 2009, 10:11:05 PM
Anastasia's facial expression is priceless . Sorta she is mimicking her older sister who was putting her gloves on.  ;D

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: RHB on December 11, 2009, 03:35:49 AM
I was mad about her, and determined to marry her. You could not imagine anyone more beautiful than she was [. . .]" -- Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten

I remember reading the full thing about wanting to marry her but i don't remember where could someone please post it or at least lead me to where i may have read it thank you!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 12, 2009, 01:32:31 AM
I was mad about her, and determined to marry her. You could not imagine anyone more beautiful than she was [. . .]" -- Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten

I remember reading the full thing about wanting to marry her but i don't remember where could someone please post it or at least lead me to where i may have read it thank you!

I've seen this several places - Flight of the Romanovs - a TV interview with LLM - and perhaps in the family bio on the Mountbattens
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: RHB on December 12, 2009, 02:24:50 AM
I've seen this several places - Flight of the Romanovs - a TV interview with LLM - and perhaps in the family bio on the Mountbattens

thank you Lisa although I meant like a site or thread... wait do they mention it in (only book i have) FOTR?  ;)
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Carisbrooke on August 31, 2010, 07:02:32 AM
This coming sunday the 5th of september it will be 100 years to the day since the IF visited munzenberg, see #90 photo post by GD Ally. The date is from Charlotte Zeepvat's CAMARA AND THE TSARS & she's always spot on with all her facts. For those who like to google earth I surmise (or guess) it was taken at the southern end of the castle somewhere along the burgweg entrance. Both M & A are facing south into the sun, & by the length of the shadows I estimate the time of day to be around 11am to 1pm.  .........Wish I could be there.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Rodney_G. on February 11, 2011, 01:32:41 PM
About Louis Mountbatten having a picture of GD Marie at his bedside til the day he died: That seems to be true and I pretty much accepted it when I first read about it. The question is: What did his wife Edwina think about it? Your spouse having a picture of his young beloved in sight near the marital bed can't possibly be good for your marriage. Even if it's taken for what it was, just a fond old remembrance of a long past infatuation, it would be pretty troubling. Hmmm.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Robert_Hall on February 11, 2011, 01:54:17 PM
I think Marina would have no room to complain, considering their rather "open" relationship.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on February 11, 2011, 02:14:35 PM
Agreed, Robert!  All one has to do is read a bit about the couple and "surprises"  DO develop!   Regards,   AP.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 11, 2011, 09:21:43 PM
However, Lord Mountbatten's wife was Edwina Ashley, not Marina.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Selencia on February 18, 2012, 08:30:41 PM
Though I do think the idea of Louis loving Maria for the rest of his life is sweet, I don't know if they would have had a happy marriage. What feelings did Maria have for Louis if any? I don't dislike Louis Mountbatten, I actually feel he and his father were kind of mistreated by the royals and upper classes of England; but Louis appears to be quite ambitious for someone like Maria. In my dream world where the family wasn't murdered, I do see young Louis and young Maria together, but don't know about Louis circa 1940s.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 19, 2012, 05:35:54 PM
Marie definitely wanted the life of a military wife & mother very much like the life her Aunt Victoria Milford Haven lived. Romanov money would have made this more possible.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Kalafrana on February 20, 2012, 01:25:18 AM
We have to bear in mind that Marie and Mountbatten were first cousins, so the Orthodox Church would not have married them. I know of nothing to suggest that Mountbatten was all that religious, but would Marie have been prepared to abandon Orthodoxy?

Ann
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sunny on February 20, 2012, 03:24:09 AM
We have to bear in mind that Marie and Mountbatten were first cousins, so the Orthodox Church would not have married them. I know of nothing to suggest that Mountbatten was all that religious, but would Marie have been prepared to abandon Orthodoxy?

Ann

That's true. Even if Maria had abandoned Orthodoxy and all, in her country she would have always been seen as a sinner or something like this.
Remember this (much more important than Nicholas' refusal to give the permission) was the reason why Kirill & Ducky's marriage was considered morganatic. They were FIRST COURSINS!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 20, 2012, 08:10:58 AM
We have to bear in mind that Marie and Mountbatten were first cousins, so the Orthodox Church would not have married them. I know of nothing to suggest that Mountbatten was all that religious, but would Marie have been prepared to abandon Orthodoxy?

Ann

That's true. Even if Maria had abandoned Orthodoxy and all, in her country she would have always been seen as a sinner or something like this.
Remember this (much more important than Nicholas' refusal to give the permission) was the reason why Kirill & Ducky's marriage was considered morganatic. They were FIRST COURSINS!

Sunny, this is incorrect. Morganatic marriages were/are marriages of social unequals whereby the children of such marriages did not obtain the ranks of their fathers. Kirill and Ducky's marriage was never considered morganatic by anyone! They were social equals, both being the offspring of cadet branches of major Imperial houses.

As I have pointed out before, the Orthodox Church's objection to cousin marriages does not take into account degrees of cousinhood, so technically, all the Romanov marriages from Catherine the Great on were "sinful" by your reckoning but no one stopped them from happening, least of all the Church. Vladimir and Miechen's marriage was a cousin marriage, as both were descendants of Emperor Paul, as were Elizabeth of Saxe Altenburg and KR, Nicholas and Alexandra were second cousins, both being descendants of Wilhelmine of Baden.

There is also a completely different distinction between a morganatic marriage, in which the children do not enjoy succession rights, but is still a legal marriage, and extralegal marriages such as you describe where the church forbids the marriage (and presumably forces the couple to marry in another faith). The Emperor was on thin ice legally, and knew it precisely for the opposite reasons you cite, in "forbidding" the marriage. First, Kirill and Ducky were socially equal, so he could not forbid them to marry based on social equality. Second, like Michael and Natasha, they married in the Orthodox Church, so religiously, the marriages were ecclesiastically valid and could not be annulled by the Russian Church just because the Tsar didn't like them. Third, the penalties left to the Emperor came down to taking away their money and their military ranks. He tried taking away Kirill's title but had to reverse himself because it violated the Fundamental Law. Note he didn't bother doing this when Misha married against his wishes

I understand, Sunny, that 1st cousin marriages upset you, but they happened with great regularity in Europe, especially before the 20th century. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I must ask that you not muddy the facts of marital law with this opinion. Yes, K & D were 1st cousins as were GD Maria Nicholievna & Louis Mountbatten, that is correct. But technically all the latter Romanov dynastic marriages were cousin marriages and all were allowed by the church.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sunny on February 20, 2012, 08:27:27 AM

I understand, Sunny, that 1st cousin marriages upset you, but they happened with great regularity in Europe, especially before the 20th century. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I must ask that you not muddy the facts of marital law with this opinion. Yes, K & D were 1st cousins as were GD Maria Nicholievna & Louis Mountbatten, that is correct. But technically all the latter Romanov dynastic marriages were cousin marriages and all were allowed by the church.

To be honest, no, it does not upset me; where i live it's common also nowadays.
Anyway, thanks for correcting the differenc from morganatic! My ideas were quite confused.

Of course i intented that only FIRST COUSIN marriage is not allowed in Orthodox Church, not "cousin marriage" in general. If i expressed myself incorrectly, i'm sorry, I wasn't aware. AF and Nicholas were second cousin, if i remember well, which is different from FIRST cousin. So, in the end, cousiins could marry if not FIRST cousin, is it this way?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 20, 2012, 08:33:39 AM

I understand, Sunny, that 1st cousin marriages upset you, but they happened with great regularity in Europe, especially before the 20th century. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I must ask that you not muddy the facts of marital law with this opinion. Yes, K & D were 1st cousins as were GD Maria Nicholievna & Louis Mountbatten, that is correct. But technically all the latter Romanov dynastic marriages were cousin marriages and all were allowed by the church.

To be honest, no, it does not upset me; where i live it's common also nowadays.
Anyway, thanks for correcting the differenc from morganatic! My ideas were quite confused.

Of course i intented that only FIRST COUSIN marriage is not allowed in Orthodox Church, not "cousin marriage" in general. If i expressed myself incorrectly, i'm sorry, I wasn't aware. AF and Nicholas were second cousin, if i remember well, which is different from FIRST cousin. So, in the end, cousiins could marry if not FIRST cousin, is it this way?


Thank you for the clarrification. I am not an Orthodox Christian, but my research indicates (and I have never found anything contrary to this) that the Church does not make distinctions between 1st and 2nd cousins. So, while there is apparently0
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 21, 2012, 08:40:49 AM
(to finish comments from yesterday):

The prohibition against cousin marriages is apparently something that is a rule in the Orthodox Church but my impression is, it is one that was not followed in Imperial Russia by dynasts. This is perhaps analogous to the rule against contraception in the Roman Catholic Church - a rule but one that is not followed. Or Sunny may be right in that it was selectively followed as to 1st cousins only.

I also owe Sunny an apology in that I personalized some of her comments which were not in fact her personal opinion. I drew this conclusion because she capitalized "1st cousin" but per her follow up clearly shows this is not the case (that she personally objects to cousin marriages).
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Kalafrana on February 21, 2012, 09:43:37 AM
As I understand it, the Orthodox Churches prohibit first cousin marriages, but not the marriages of other cousins. The marriage between Kirill and Victoria Melita took place in a Lutheran Church and was retrospectively recognised by a reluctant Nicholas, so doesn't constitute an exception in my view. I can't think of any other first cousin marriages among Romanov dynasts, although they were common enough among other royal families (Victoria and Albert, Franz Josef and Elizabeth, Heinrich of Prussia and Irene of Hesse etc etc).

Ann
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sunny on February 21, 2012, 01:02:03 PM
I also owe Sunny an apology in that I personalized some of her comments which were not in fact her personal opinion. I drew this conclusion because she capitalized "1st cousin" but per her follow up clearly shows this is not the case (that she personally objects to cousin marriages).

No problem at all, it was just a misunderstanding!

As I understand it, the Orthodox Churches prohibit first cousin marriages, but not the marriages of other cousins. The marriage between Kirill and Victoria Melita took place in a Lutheran Church and was retrospectively recognised by a reluctant Nicholas, so doesn't constitute an exception in my view. I can't think of any other first cousin marriages among Romanov dynasts, although they were common enough among other royal families (Victoria and Albert, Franz Josef and Elizabeth, Heinrich of Prussia and Irene of Hesse etc etc).

Ann

Thanks Ann i thought Ducky&Kirill were married in Orthodox Church! I apologize for my ignorance in my previous posts about it.
I'm sure there were 1st cousin marriages among Europe, as i said it's pretty common also nowadays where I live, i was just poiting put that Orthodox Church doesn't allow 1st cousin marriages. On the contrary, Lutheran & Catholic Church allow them (so that's why Victoria & Albert - Lutheran - and Franz Joseph and Sisi - Catholic - could marry).
But I'm not a Orthodox myself, so I could have been wrong!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Kalafrana on February 21, 2012, 03:29:43 PM
My maternal grandparents - Church of England - were first cousins. I'm not aware of any religious issue over it, but they kept the closeness of their relationship secret even from their own children! Obviously they had encountered some opposition.

Ann
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 21, 2012, 07:58:45 PM
http://www.riuo.org/RussianImperialSuccession/russianimperialsuccession.html

The article above is a well considered discussion of the Succession to the Imperial House. I won't try to dilute it, but in essence:

1. It is correct that the marriage of Kirill and Ducky was performed in the Lutheran Church.
2. The Emperor Nicholas II recognized the marriage and subsequently approved it after the fact. He had the discretion to do this under the Law of the Russian Empire.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Vanya Ivanova on February 22, 2012, 09:29:10 AM

I think the thing you have to remember is that GD Marie was Lord Mountbatten's FIRST love, from his official biography this is acknowledged as his first serious romantic attachment. He was by all accounts extremely anxious for GD Marie after the revolution broke out and devastated by her subsequent death. Its true to say that even if it doesn't last or never develops beyond an 'infatuation' the first time or rather the first person you fall in love with can never be forgotten.

Personally I don't see how that reflects on his marriage. GD Marie had died before he even met Edwina Ashley, whom he married, had children and spent the rest of his life with. Therefore of course it was she and not GD Marie that was 'the love of his life'.

But the fact that he kept Marie's picture by his bedside throughout his life (he and his wife did not share a bedroom as was the custom for upper class couples and not an indication of the state of their marriage (Nicholas and Alexandra being a notable exception of course) does rather prove that the attachment was a lasting one and much more than just a childhood crush.

I think it also gives a tangible glimpse of what GD Marie was like. In a BBC documentary Lord Mountbatten describes how extraordinarily attractive the four GD's were, in his words '' much more than their photographs show''. Marie as the 'middle' sister we know often felt overlooked but not so by Louis, to him she was the special one and even as an elderly, battle weary statesman he was still rather 'bashful' when describing her. I don't think we should try to take that away from either of them.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 22, 2012, 10:35:57 AM
Very nicely put!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 15, 2012, 06:24:39 AM
Is there a space dedicated to this "first love relationship" in his biography? Sadly I cannot read the book, so I was wondering if anyone could post some quotes on the matter, if tehre are any included?
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: blessOTMA on June 15, 2012, 10:20:57 AM

I think it also gives a tangible glimpse of what GD Marie was like. In a BBC documentary Lord Mountbatten describes how extraordinarily attractive the four GD's were, in his words '' much more than their photographs show''. Marie as the 'middle' sister we know often felt overlooked but not so by Louis, to him she was the special one and even as an elderly, battle weary statesman he was still rather 'bashful' when describing her. I don't think we should try to take that away from either of them.
I was going to say "well said!" But I see Lisa has already done so...so I'll just  say

here!  here!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sunny on June 15, 2012, 12:05:48 PM
In a BBC documentary Lord Mountbatten describes how extraordinarily attractive the four GD's were, in his words '' much more than their photographs show''

Vanya, can you tell me more about this documentary? Its exact name, or when i can find it, or how can i browse for it? I'll be very interested in see Lord Mountbatten speaking (does he speak? i think so, he died in 1979....). It'd be terrific seeing with my own eyes someone who knew OTMA personally and talks about them...
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: blessOTMA on June 16, 2012, 12:01:42 PM
It's wonderful to hear Lord Mountbatten speak of OTMAA and especially Marie in later life...( his emotion about it hadn't mellowed a wit)  but his wish to marry Marie had entered  family lore long before when as a boy he make it known to his mother of his intention. I wonder if his utter seriousness ( at, I believe, age 10) bemused  the adults of the family ...but it certainly impressed them enough to make note of it . I always made note  his use of the word,"  determined",  when he said he was " determined to marry her " (Marie)....it shows an appreciation of obstacles...but he seemed quite undaunted by them !  Of course I love how he kept a photo of  Marie near him all his life. It shows his bond, her special place in his heart , but also another determination...that she was not forgotten. He shared that with others  who  knew and loved  the family, but lived well after them. 
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 17, 2013, 06:34:11 PM
Here is the interview where Dickie Mountbatten speaks of his boy crush on Maria. Here he also shares his memories about other Romanov and Hesse relatives. I'm still jumping up and down after discovering this documentary after so many years searching it! I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10vt58_the-life-and-times-of-lord-mountbatten-02of12-the-kings-depart_shortfilms?search_algo=2
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: OctoberLily on September 18, 2013, 12:52:56 AM
This is fascinating!  Thank you so much for posting the link!
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Rodney_G. on September 18, 2013, 05:36:20 PM
Here is the interview where Dickie Mountbatten speaks of his boy crush on Maria. Here he also shares his memories about other Romanov and Hesse relatives. I'm still jumping up and down after discovering this documentary after so many years searching it! I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10vt58_the-life-and-times-of-lord-mountbatten-02of12-the-kings-depart_shortfilms?search_algo=2

Touching to see Louis talking about his Romanov cousins.

I'm in my sixties and remember him appearing in the news occasionallly in the 1960s and 1970s. And his murder by IRA terrorists. To me he belongs in the "modern age". But he's also a very real  link to the last Romanovs and of course  to his dear Marie. I'm so glad he recorded his memories in this documentary while he had the chance.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Georgiy on September 19, 2013, 03:54:42 AM
I still remember hearing on the news about his assassination. I was only a boy at the time. Interesting to see this documentary.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Превед on September 19, 2013, 09:00:49 AM
One adores the musical score in the intro combined with the rarely seen Battenberg arms!
Interestingly the sociolect of this Germano-Briton makes you assess how thoroughly (North) German Upper RP sounds with its non-rhoticity and close vowels.
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: amelia on September 19, 2013, 10:54:37 AM
I understand that he kept Maria's photograph in his bedside table, until his death. Amelia
Title: Re: GDss Marie and Louis "Dickie" Mountbatten
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 21, 2013, 05:08:39 AM
Thank you for the video! It is just surreal to hear him speak. Somehow one cannot really comprehend this is indeed a person who knew them all, communicated with them, was close to them. I had the same surreal feeling when I was at a Titanic exhibition. Even though the objects lifted from the bottom of the sea were there in front of me, one could hardly believe they were authentic. It just felt so unreal.