Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Greek Royal Family => Topic started by: grandduchessella on November 17, 2004, 08:44:43 PM

Title: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on November 17, 2004, 08:44:43 PM
Since this topic has the potential to be of interest and to keep it from overwhelming the original thread I switched this one to its own.

To get it started this is what I had posted last in response to a Waldemar/George query:

Here's some of what's said in her bio:
--at 14 his had gone to Denmark for naval training and entrusted to his uncle Waldemar who was an admiral in the Danish navy
p.85 "At the moment of his parents' departure he was with his grandfather..and his uncle, standing on the pier where the ship was moored. Suddenly a feeling of abandonment overwhelmed him. His uncle realized it and took his hand. Together they walked back to Bernstorff, the pricne's residence and Marie quotes George as saying 'From that day, from that moment on, I loved him and I have never had any other friend but him.' ..Nowhere else did he feel so happy as when he was in Denmark...'You will love him too', he concluded, 'when you meet him'. "

p.92:
upon her arrival in Greece for her marriage: "The person to whom Marie obviously paid most attention was Prince Waldemar...'Rather tall, slender and elegant, a pointed chestnut beard completes his face with its gray nearsighted eyes behind a pince-nez placed on a nose that is slightly tilted upwards. Czar Nicholas II and George, the Prince of Wales, are blond versions of him. Waldemar smiles and speaks kindly to me. I am happy to meet the great friend of the man I love and to see that he likes me.'...Waldemar adn the queen were 'what they call in Greek the Koumbaros and Koumbara, a sort of godfather and godmother of the couple being united.' It was they who put the rings on Marie's and George's fingers...."

p.94: "In a notebook entitled Le vieux compagnon (The Old Companion) dated Copenhagen, January 1939, Marie Bonaparte retraced thirty years of life shared with Prince George. ...she starts the pages that George most likely never read....He had talked to her about the Friend (Waldemar)...On the wedding night...when he came into her room, he was coming from his uncle Waldemar's, and 'you needed the warmth of his voice, of his hand, and his permission, to get up your courage to approach the virgin...You took me that night in a short, brutal gesture, as if forcing yourself, and apologized, 'I hate it as much as you do. But we must do it if we want children' Two days later, they left on their honeymoon, on the Amphtrite. Waldemar sailed with them. They spent three days together. George cried when they parted from his uncle in Bologna...."

Within a few months Marie felt like leaving Greece for good and never seeing George again but by then it was too late and she was pregnant. They went to her home in Paris for the pregnancy and Marie hoped for better relations.  

p.95: George...."had a set number of habits to which he found it natural that she should submit. For instance, he spent every summer in Denmark, at Bernstorff, his uncle Waldemar's cstle near Copenhagen. [I guess he inherited it from his parents]...describes a day at Bernstorff: She was ready at eleven o'clock..when she joined George, who had been with Waldemar since seven...She called them her 'two husbands' and went for a walk with them, kissing now one, now the other, until it was time for lunch. Then she wrote while Waldemar and George went into town. Around four o'clock, she heard the backfiring of motorycles under her window; George and Waldemar were returning. They all had tea together...[then] spent the evening in the 'deep sweet joy of a tete-a-tete a troit' George, myself, and sweet Waldemar'. "The next day she noted down what she called an evenign scene: Waldemar and George were in her room, where she was lying on a chaise lounge, Waldemar kissing her and George refusing to kiss her the way his uncle did. All this is casually written...She appears a slightly perverse ingenue rather than a young woman developing under the influence of love and approaching motherhood. The amorous games with Waldemar surely had something to do with this....[noting how clever Marie O. and Ernst of Cumberland were and how they stood out in their intelligence and decisiveness]...Waldemar was unable, before going out, to decide between two overcoats: 'Georgie, tell me what I shall put on.'...In her journal she addressed George: 'I would need to take refuge from the whole world, to nestle in loving arms. O my darling, understand this, open yours to me!' But there was no chance he would do so. George was not tender toward her,a nd she was realizing it more and more."

As the time grew to leave Bernstorff, George grew very nasty towards Waldemar's Marie accusing her of infidelity and drunkenness. Whenever Marie tries to talk to him he goes away leaving her 'chillled, wishing for death' and crying..."On the train taking them back...'My George, near his Waldemar, is like a day lit by the sun, and away from him like a day of fog...The day before our departure, Marie [Orleans] came to see me...'They're down there. It's the same scene every time when there's a departure. George is crying. Waldemar is as green as an apple.' The two women conferred. Nothing could be done about it. Marie-Waldemar [as Marie B calls her to distinguish between herself and the other] was used to it. She had understood for along time. Waldemar accompanied them on the train as far as the border of Denmark. Finally the train was put on the ferry. Waldemar remained on the upper deck of the boat, while George returned to the railway carriage and went to sleep. He woke shortly before Berlin. 'Now they are sitting down at the table,' he said, taking out his watch. His thoughts were in Bernstorff."

Later installments involved her taking up with Waldemar's son Aage (temporary fling) and her up and down relationship with George.  

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Karentje on November 18, 2004, 05:05:52 AM
My god, how tragic and sad for all those concerned!
How did she cope, how did Waldemar and George cope?
Are there other books, besides her biography that deal with this?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Alicky1872 on November 18, 2004, 07:35:32 AM
Thank you so much GDElla for taking the time to post all this fascinating info! All I can say is "Oh dear", where do you start? From what you've posted, I think I've changed my mind about them being "just like close brothers" to say the least! ;) That comment George made to Marie B on their wedding night sums it up for me. It must have been so incredibly difficult for all of them...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Jim1026 on November 18, 2004, 07:54:44 AM
As I understand it Pss Marie, Waldemar's wife was quite the gal also.  She followed the fire department to fires having even her own hat and she had a tatoo of an anchor on her shoulder being proud of the fact that she
was a "sailors wife'.  Interestingly enough Empress Dowager Maria (IE: Pss Dagmar) liked her and was exceedingly kind to her children upon Pss. Marie's death.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on November 18, 2004, 08:49:46 AM
How interesting.  GDElla, what is the title of her autobiography/biography?
I have always admired Marie Bonaparte -  a beautiful, cultured and intelligent woman.  It must have been quite a shock for her to enter into such an unconventional marital arrangement.  Are we really to suppose that this was a complete relationship between the two men?  Does not the blood tie make it rather exceptional?  
What exactly was it that Marie Orleans (another fascinating intelligent woman) 'understood' and how was this relationship perceived by others in the extended family?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on November 18, 2004, 09:36:02 AM
So many questions! Let's see:

Karentje: I haven't yet gotten to the part (if there is any) about how Marie O. coped. She seems to have been a very strong woman pretty well-liked in the family. Based on the comment she made to Marie B it seems like she had an acceptance of the situation and tried to make the best out of it. The Orleans women seem to be pretty tough.

Martyn: The name of the bio is Marie Bonaparte by Celia Bertin. I got mine used from the internet and I  think it's pretty common and not too expensive (unlike SOME biographies that are very interesting as well). I don't know if the relationship was ever physically consummated. The blood relation would make it exceptional but in royal circles cousins married (granted a much different relationship) and didn't some of the Bourbons (?) actually marry nieces, etc...? Marie O apparently 'understood' the relationship that existed--in whatever form--between her husband and his nephew. That she may be his wife but not necessarily the one he loved most and that there WAS this relationship and it wasn't something that was going to go away or be sacrificed. It certainly seems to have been a shocking marriage for Marie B on many accounts, not just his relationship with Waldemar. She went into her engagement believing it was a love match (something she desperately craved having a fairly loveless childhood) and that if G seemed rather distant physically (in regards kissing, handholding, etc...) for a fiancee she chalked it up to him being very chaste and that this would disappear upon taking their marriage vows. Another disillusionment. Her feelings seem to swing between love/hate, hope/disillusionment, acceptance/resentment and so forth. I think it's part of what drove her into the realm of psychoanalysis (I'll have to read more) and maybe helped her to cope with the situation.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on November 18, 2004, 09:58:08 AM
Thanks Ella.  You are right - so many questions so little time!
I have always understood that Waldemar and Marie d'Orleans had quite a good marriage - there was certainly no shortage of children (was it four or five, can't remember).  George and Marie Bonaparte managed to have two children, so he must have made the effort at least twice!
I must say that this relationship seems quite unusual, but I suppose they were lucky to be married to two extraordinary women, who seemingly tolerated the status quo (even if Marie B was less than  happy)
I gather that Marie O died quite young (in her forties?) but that the first person to rush to Waldemar's side to console him was, of course, George......
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on November 18, 2004, 10:40:39 AM
Next parts I have time to type:

p.100: "Her diary entries through December 1908 center on her son [Peter]. She was dazzled and fulfilled by her motherhood. During these first weeks she and George enjoyed a sense of union they had not known before. George was as happy as she was...."

This didn't survive their return to Greece a few months later and she began to get bored and restless and no longer found fulfillment in motherhood. She was tired with her idle life and how her rank prevented her from mixing in what little society there was...."' Four months we spent with family gatherings three times a week. It's too much for me. Last week there were the visits of the aunts from Russia and England [Minny and Alexandra]. All royal bourgeois, these Danes, bourgeois virtues and defects, united, honest, good, simple, kind, desperately the common path.' "

p.101 "That summer [1909] spent again in Denmark, she became involved with Aage, the eldest son of Marie-Waldemar, who kissed her in corners and told her about his Paris flings. She had no illusions about him; Aage was shallow and allowed himself to be pampered, but he had the advantage of being young like herself. 'We never find the total object of love. So let us gather the beautiful fragments. I have found a beautiful fragment,' she wrote. Angrily she wrote of Waldemar: 'He does nothing from morning to night but slumber of the same newspaper, inactive, indolent, interested in nothing and incapable of having an interest, limited by his lack of intelligence.' The summer went by slowly. "

late Sept that year: " Marie remained very late at Bernstorff while George and Waldemar were hunting at the Cumberlands'. She was back at avenue d'Iena [home in Paris] with George, only a few days before November 12, when Waldemar and his three sons left for Siam. But they were to return to Denmark earlier than planned. On December 5, 1909, Marie-Waldemar died, at the age of forty-four. The travelers...took a large British liner [to Denmark]...Aage had a carefree time on the English ship, as Marie was to learn with no surprise. 'He is weak. He has not inherited his mother's character.' Marie was saddened by Marie-Waldemar's sudden death. "

p.104: "The summer of 1910, which like the previous ones she spent at Bernstorff, gave Marie little happiness. She realized to what extent the charm she had once found in the castle was owing to the imagination of Marie-Waldemar, that clear-sighted and unhappy woman...."

In the summer of that year, Marie's aunt Jeanne died following an operation. George provided her brief comfort by staying with her but she was devastated nonetheless. By this point her daughter Eugenie had been born and Marie's old nurse, Mimau, had left her service because she was convinced George was betraying Marie with a 'little nurse' (she'd harbored these suspicions after Peter's birth as well). This had shaken Marie's precarious sense of security as Mimau had been one of the few constants in her life and now one of the others--her Aunt--was gone as well.

"Rendered more sensitive by her grief, and also because Marie-Waldemar's absence made certain things clearer, Marie realized that the relationship between George and his uncle was not what she had imagined. 'Your body adverse to female bodies, you body like your soul devoted to man, chastely but ardently fixed on the one Friend [Waldemar].' It was while looking at a book on Michelangelo and comparing it to the drawings of athletes that adorned her husband's dressing room that she understood. George 'upright in soul as in stature..a being with abnormally strong and fixed passions...loved only one friend at the age of fourteen. Ten years his senior and like him devoted to the sea.' But who then was Waldemar, toward whom she now began to feel a nagging jealousy? In this text we see the image that had already faded in 1909 deteriorate still further: 'A very ordinary creature, neither very handsome, nor very intelligent, nor very generous, and often unpleasant, especially toward his children.' But Marie recognized that he had been able to inspire in George 'one of those great passions that, according to Rousseau, are as rare as great genius.' Discovering this shook her to the core. The period was anything but open about such strong attachments and her upbringing had been more restrictive than most. On the othre hand, there had been the precedent of Uncle Christian, who had strange accidents and disappearances adn was the subject of Mimau's and her grandmother's gossip. Although she remarked on Uncle Christian's searching for young men of classic Greek type when in Athens, it is by no means certain that she understood about his predilections..."

Marie then began to look for others to allow her to fill her female role. In her notes entitled The Men I Have Loved she writes of an affair she based on a tale she had read at 18, Pelleas and Melisande. "I took as Pelleas the young and vulgar ruffian, five years after having met him and having lost sight of him in the interval...Pelleas...fled. His wife, abandoned for six months, thought of killing herself. Drunken and coarse....[she enjoyed]...some orgiastic days...Her marriage could not have reassured her, nor had her recent amorous experiences...."
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on November 18, 2004, 11:03:36 AM
Fascinating stuff.  Can't quite get my head around it all at the moment...I think that I really need to read Marie's biography.
BTW is there a good biography of Marie d'Orleans?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 18, 2004, 12:41:10 PM
I know they are probably on the site by the dozens, but could someone post pictures of the parties concerned on this thread ?  Sort of "illustrate" eho we are talking about.
I have long heard about this relationsghip, but never really looked into it as the parties did not interest me much. Haveing them sigled out as a topic though makes it more interesting.
Best,
Robert
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on November 18, 2004, 01:20:40 PM
Quote
Fascinating stuff.  Can't quite get my head around it all at the moment...I think that I really need to read Marie's biography.
BTW is there a good biography of Marie d'Orleans?


Martyn,

Sadly there is no biography of Marie d'Orleans, who happens to be one of my favorite royal ladies.  In the European Royal History Journal from about 4 years ago we had a biography of her written by Coryne Hall.  Marie was a talented painter and like many of her Orleans cousins a respected intellectual, albeit a litlte strange.  Her infatuation with firemen and firetrucks has always provided many of us, and her family as well, with more than a demure chuckle.

She unfortunately became addicted to pain killers, mainly morphine after a serious illness and this was a habit she could never break.  She died alone as her family were traveling when death surprised Marie at the still young age of 44 years.

I have some wonderful photos of her from the private collection of her parents, which is now housed in the Eurohistory archive.

Arturo Beeche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Jim1026 on November 18, 2004, 02:11:38 PM
Princess Marie of Orleans was first cousin to Queen Amalie of Portugal, Princess Helena, Duchess of Aosta.
Princess Helena was the love of Prince Albert Victor. :-/
Princess Marie was the Aunt to Princess Francoise, the
second wife of Prince Christopher of Greece and to Prince Henri Comte de Paris. ::)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on November 18, 2004, 02:34:03 PM
Marie Bonaparte & Prince George
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/georggreece1869-6.jpg)
Marie and son Peter
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/ebay3658.jpg)
Marie and George w/daughter Eugenie
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/dddd.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on November 18, 2004, 02:57:08 PM
Marie O.+ Waldemar+ Georg
http://www.geh.org/ar/chus/denmark/m197501112561_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/chus/denmark/m197501112498_ful.html#topofimage

Marie O.+Waldemar
http://www.geh.org/ar/chus/denmark/m197501112493_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/chus/denmark/m197501112560_ful.html#topofimage

The pictures on geh.org are great!One of my favourite sites!

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on November 18, 2004, 07:02:53 PM
Quote
Marie O apparently 'understood' the relationship that existed--in whatever form--between her husband and his nephew. That she may be his wife but not necessarily the one he loved most and that there WAS this relationship and it wasn't something that was going to go away or be sacrificed.


sort of like Irina Yusupov's "understanding of, & resignation to", the situation within her married life.    they both, obviously, cared much for their respective spouses, and early-on made the decision to make the best of it.   given the "morals" of the day, i'm sure all parties involved would avoid divorce (in Irina's case, she knew what was up before she married Feliks --- and married him anyway), and therefore, both knew that no matter what their husbands did in private, at "the end of the day", he would always be home.   there's a certain security in that, don't you think?


personally speaking, i have a abundance of respect for these two women for many reasons, not the least of which is the incredible strength of character each exhibited in the face of a situation that, in a very real sense, had utterly destroyed lesser women.    they were able to step back & look past the most obvious issues to see some positive aspects contained within the larger picture.  
  many of us aren't able to do that at all, not even when faced with trivial issues.

these were two remarkable people (MarieO & Irina); not just remarkable women, but remarkable human-beings...   their understanding and individualistic "acceptance" of  human-nature -- or, at least, the "nature" (to whatever degree) of their husbands would be out-of-the-ordinary, even today; but for their day?  utterly amazing!
.
.
.

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on November 19, 2004, 07:37:26 AM
I quite agree Brian but let's not forget Marie Bonaparte.  She also made the best of a bad job and if anything had the worst end of it.  Felix and Waldemar both loved their wives (as far as one can make out) but it has been clearly shown that George had more difficulty with his relationship with Marie Bonaparte; she obviously felt very unfulfilled in many ways.
Marie B in profile very much has the look of the Bonapartes, although that photo of her with George does not do her justice; she was a very attractive woman.
Arturo, thank you for the information about Marie O.  I knew nothing about her until I saw that programme about the Danish Royal Family but it has certainly whet my appetite.  Just what exactly was her predilection for firemen and firetrucks?  It sounds as though Waldemar and Marie had a very happy home life - certainly their children sound terrific as they seem to have been a bit wild.............I do wish that there was a good biog of Marie (sigh).
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on November 19, 2004, 10:00:51 AM
I wish there was a joint bio on the Orleans women in general--I think Queen Amelie of Portugal was fascinating; Helene (Dss D'Aosta) was certainly something--there are a good number who would be worthy of putting in a family bio. I think the women in certain families are certainly not given their due.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on November 19, 2004, 04:39:11 PM
Hummm...a group bio of Orléans women...imagine that!  ;)

Marie loved firemen and firetrucks and was so enthralled by their profession that many times when she heard the fire sirens go off she would don her uniform and follow them to the scene of a fire.

Arturo
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on November 19, 2004, 10:44:20 PM
Why the 'hmmm' Art--do you have one in mind?  :)  If so I'll volunteer to write on Amelie!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on December 13, 2004, 07:49:52 AM
Sorry Arturo, I missed your reply to my question about Marie and her fascination with firemen.  So she actually had a uniform of her own and would follow them to the scene of a fire?  I wonder what it was that she found so fascinating (apart from the obvious uniform thing) - could it have been the danger element?  Such a fascinating woman...............
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Alicky1872 on December 13, 2004, 09:00:05 AM
Quote
As I understand it Pss Marie, Waldemar's wife was quite the gal also.  She followed the fire department to fires having even her own hat and she had a tatoo of an anchor on her shoulder being proud of the fact that she
was a "sailors wife'.quote]

I know I'm a bit late here, but I was just wondering where you heard about her having a tatoo of an anchor? My goodness! What a character!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on December 13, 2004, 04:22:10 PM
An anchor tattooed on her shoulder!  I'll bet that gave her couturiers a headache when it came to evening toilettes and court dresses!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on December 18, 2004, 01:56:56 PM
Quote
Why the 'hmmm' Art--do you have one in mind?  :)  If so I'll volunteer to write on Amelie!


I have a full plate for next year with at least 4 books being published by Eurohistory...but thinking about a group bio of Orléans women is definitely tempting!

1-   Louise Marie d'Orléans - Wife of Leopold I of the Belgians
2-   Clementine d'Orléans - mother of Ferdinand Bulgaria
3-   Isabelle d'Orléans - wife of the Count of Paris
4-   Marie Amelie d'Orléans - Wife of Carlos I of Portugal
5-   Hélène d'Orléans - wife of the Duke d'Aosta
6-   Isabelle d'Orléans - wife of the Duke de Guise
7-   Louise d'Orléans - mother of the Countess of Barcelona
8-   Marie d'Orléans - wife of Waldemar of Denmark
9-   Françoise d'Orléans - wife of Christopher of Greece
10- Anne d'Orléans - wife of the Duke d'Aosta
11- Anne de France - wife of the Infante don Carlos
12- Diane de France - wife of Duke Carl of Württemberg
13- Claude de France - wife of the Duke d'Aosta
14- Louise d'Orléans - wife of Alfons of Bavaria
15- Françoise d'Orléans - wife of the Duke de Chartres
16- Isabelle d'Orléans-Braganca - wife of the Count of Paris

Indeed a marvelous book it could be!

Arturo
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Jim1026 on December 18, 2004, 05:20:09 PM
Quote
As I understand it Pss Marie, Waldemar's wife was quite the gal also.  She followed the fire department to fires having even her own hat and she had a tatoo of an anchor on her shoulder being proud of the fact that she
was a "sailors wife'.quote]

I know I'm a bit late here, but I was just wondering where you heard about her having a tatoo of an anchor? My goodness! What a character!


I can't remember what book I read it in but will try to find out.  I have read so many.  She was "her own woman" but the Danish royals seemed to like her.  Maybe they sympathized with her situtation with Waldemar.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on December 18, 2004, 06:41:11 PM
Well Art, I would certainly buy that book!  I would love to read more about the Orleans family, especially the women.  
So the four books that are being published next year - are their details on the Eurohistory site?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on December 19, 2004, 02:06:43 PM
Nope...they are not...but these books cover racnges from the memoirs of a Greek prince to a famed royal cruise to a group biography of Russian royals and finally a biography of the gradmother of a queen's husband...

Can you guess what the books are about?

The fiirst announcement for the first Eurohistory book in 2005 can be found in the next issue of THE EUROPEAN ROYAL HISTORY JOURNAL, which goes to print this next week.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on December 19, 2004, 02:10:21 PM
Quote

I can't remember what book I read it in but will try to find out.  I have read so many.  She was "her own woman" but the Danish royals seemed to like her.  Maybe they sympathized with her situtation with Waldemar.


I also think that the danish royal family liked her originality and independence of mind.  She seems to have loved their constant practical jokes and partook of these pranks.

Perhaps they all felt sorry as well for her unfortunate dependence on morphine.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on December 20, 2004, 01:20:54 PM
Quote
Nope...they are not...but these books cover racnges from the memoirs of a Greek prince to a famed royal cruise to a group biography of Russian royals and finally a biography of the gradmother of a queen's husband...

Can you guess what the books are about?

The fiirst announcement for the first Eurohistory book in 2005 can be found in the next issue of THE EUROPEAN ROYAL HISTORY JOURNAL, which goes to print this next week.

Arturo Beéche

Now you have really excited my curiosity!  It isn't fair to tease me like this.....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on December 21, 2004, 12:52:42 AM
If you were a subscriber to THE EUROPEAN ROYAL HISTORY JOURNAL, your curiosity would be amply fulfilled! :o
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on December 21, 2004, 06:06:50 AM
Quote
If you were a subscriber to THE EUROPEAN ROYAL HISTORY JOURNAL, your curiosity would be amply fulfilled! :o


What a terrible tease you are Arturo!  I might just have to do that; although I am not sure that my precarious finances will permit at present....We'll see..
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on December 21, 2004, 08:30:13 PM
I would dare to say that your money in this case would be extremely well spent!!!   ;)

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on January 25, 2005, 10:42:13 AM
 Marie  seems to have been of a new breed of Royal.  Has anyone read her book ? Or have any information on her. She was in a very odd  relationship, had lovers, was well educated.  How did she deal with her husband and his uncle ? Did she get help from Marie of Denmark ?   And any photos of her. Thanks
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on January 25, 2005, 03:19:16 PM
Quote
grandduchessella has written a lot about her in the Danish section - Waldermar & George thread. :) (Only just discovered it :))


Thanks for the plug!  :)  MB is definitely a fascinating person. The aspects I recounted mostly have to do with her relationship w/her husband in respect to his own relations with his nephews. I'll try to gather more on MB herself. She is definitely an interesting person. Such a non-conformist in so many ways, yet she never just packed up and left George even unofficially. They were together until the end--and that was a long time. A devotee of psychoanalysis, even writing articles, yet with so many contradictions in her own personality and what would be called today 'issues'. Her biography is really quite interesting but it was still hard to get a handle completely on her because I think in many ways she didn't know her own mind despite her interest in psychology.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: bluetoria on January 25, 2005, 05:03:32 PM
Knowing virtually nothing about her, may I ask: Since she sounds a little 'unusual' (or rather you say she doesn't know her own mind) is this stomach-churning account which is so horrible (on the Greek thread) to be believed as accurate? And all the rest of her accounts? Or was she also 'fanciful' (for want of a better expression)? What sort of person was she? Was it simply her marriage that made her as she was...I can't get to grips with her character at all from those horrible things on the Greek thread?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on January 25, 2005, 09:42:18 PM
Quote

Thanks for the plug!  :)  MB is definitely a fascinating person. The aspects I recounted mostly have to do with her relationship w/her husband in respect to his own relations with his nephews. I'll try to gather more on MB herself. She is definitely an interesting person. Such a non-conformist in so many ways, yet she never just packed up and left George even unofficially. They were together until the end--and that was a long time. A devotee of psychoanalysis, even writing articles, yet with so many contradictions in her own personality and what would be called today 'issues'. Her biography is really quite interesting but it was still hard to get a handle completely on her because I think in many ways she didn't know her own mind despite her interest in psychology.



Prince George of Greece never dated a "nephew" or "nephews," perhaps you meant to say George dated his uncle, Prince Valdemar of Denmark, for a very long time...about five decades!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on January 25, 2005, 10:17:06 PM
Quote


Prince George of Greece never dated a "nephew" or "nephews," perhaps you meant to say George dated his uncle, Prince Valdemar of Denmark, for a very long time...about five decades!

Arturo Beéche


Well,yes, I did. That's what the topic referred back to was about (the one about Waldemar & George in the Greek section). Just a case of typing too fast. I should've said her relations with her husband in regards to _his_ uncle. Sorry for any confusion.

Quote
Knowing virtually nothing about her, may I ask: Since she sounds a little 'unusual' (or rather you say she doesn't know her own mind) is this stomach-churning account which is so horrible (on the Greek thread) to be believed as accurate? And all the rest of her accounts? Or was she also 'fanciful' (for want of a better expression)? What sort of person was she? Was it simply her marriage that made her as she was...I can't get to grips with her character at all from those horrible things on the Greek thread?


I tend to think her account was pretty accurate--it seems an almost therapeutic way of addressing the situation. I wouldn't call her 'fanciful' just someone who had a keen desire to understand herself and those around her. She's actually pretty modern in that respect and probably healthier than many royals of her day whou could've used some therapy! I don't think her marriage made her that way entirely--she had some 'Daddy' issues already as well as an apparent lack of self-esteem and a desire to belong somewhere. Ironically though, she doesn't seem to have bonded well with the Greek/Danish  family so that feeling of not belonging apparently continued on. She is a hard character to get a grip on. As for not knowing her own mind, I meant it more as she had such confused and convoluted feelings towards many of those closest to her--especially George. She had a LOT of resentment, yet still loved him and I think desired a real connection (emotional if not physical) with him that was always denied her. I'm nowhere near bright or eloquent enough to try and describe her though   :-/  I can only recommend the book or try to get some more references from it.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on January 26, 2005, 07:39:47 AM
Quote


Prince George of Greece never dated a "nephew" or "nephews," perhaps you meant to say George dated his uncle, Prince Valdemar of Denmark, for a very long time...about five decades!

Arturo Beéche


Was it really as long as that?  Five decades?  Goodness, nowadays they would have received gifts to mark the anniversary!
GDElla, don't do yourself down!  Your appraisals of the characters that we discuss on this Board are never wide of the mark.  Thank you for this very interesting information about Marie.  
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on January 26, 2005, 08:43:17 AM
Quote

Was it really as long as that?  Five decades?  Goodness, nowadays they would have received gifts to mark the anniversary!
GDElla, don't do yourself down!  Your appraisals of the characters that we discuss on this Board are never wide of the mark.  Thank you for this very interesting information about Marie.  


Indeed and kudos to them for having the opportunity to share this undivided love that kept them devoted to each other for such a long time.  Just imagine that when Valdemar died in 1939 he was in his 81st yerar and George was in his 70th!

Both were forced by circumstances and royual obligations to marry, and what wonderful women they married, yet retained their special bond above all.

a ture love story!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: bluetoria on January 26, 2005, 10:04:51 AM
Quote

I don't think her marriage made her that way entirely--she had some 'Daddy' issues already as well as an apparent lack of self-esteem and a desire to belong somewhere.  


A wedding night like that can't have helped her self-esteem though, can it!!

Was her father Roland Bonaparte? If so, how was he related to Jerome et al. ? Who was her mother? (Please!)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on January 26, 2005, 10:24:01 AM
Her father was Roland and her mother Marie Blanc. Roland was descent from Napoleon I brother Lucien. Jerome was first cousin to Roland's father Pierre, right?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on January 26, 2005, 11:39:26 AM
Quote

Indeed and kudos to them for having the opportunity to share this undivided love that kept them devoted to each other for such a long time.  Just imagine that when Valdemar died in 1939 he was in his 81st yerar and George was in his 70th!

Both were forced by circumstances and royual obligations to marry, and what wonderful women they married, yet retained their special bond above all.

a ture love story!

Arturo Beéche


I guess I can't share that enthusiasm, not because they're gay, but because I think there's an inherent 'ick factor' in the fact that they were uncle/nephew (and yes I think some of the uncle/niece liaisons in royal history are just as icky).  :-/
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Janet_W. on January 26, 2005, 12:23:19 PM
When an older relative becomes sexually involved with a younger relative, it's very possible--to put it mildly--that this older relative has some fairly intense psychological issues. Some of these psychological issues might have something to do with the narcissistic and exploitive need to recapture one's own youth through another who bears one's genetic likeness . . . or what that older person fancies is his/her genetic likeness.

I'm generally a "live and let live" person. But in this case, I support both the laws and social conventions against incest.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on January 27, 2005, 03:52:21 AM
Quote
When an older relative becomes sexually involved with a younger relative, it's very possible--to put it mildly--that this older relative has some fairly intense psychological issues. Some of these psychological issues might have something to do with the narcissistic and exploitive need to recapture one's own youth through another who bears one's genetic likeness . . . or what that older person fancies is his/her genetic likeness.

I'm generally a "live and let live" person. But in this case, I support both the laws and social conventions against incest.


Goodness Janet!  I had never thought of it like that.....'the narcissistic and exploitative need to recapture one's genetic likeness'....Fascinating.  I have to say that while I think that it is an amazing story, I can't help feeling for both Maries.  It can't have been easy to have been obliged to recognise that very special relationship that these two men shared, whatever form it took, and that it lasted so long!  I may be wrong but I suspect that Marie O possibly dealt with it better than Marie B.  However after the former's untimely death, I would imagine that if anything, the bond between the two men became even stronger?  Which would have possibly been that bit more difficult for Marie B to contend with.......
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on January 27, 2005, 08:59:37 AM
Quote
When an older relative becomes sexually involved with a younger relative, it's very possible--to put it mildly--that this older relative has some fairly intense psychological issues. Some of these psychological issues might have something to do with the narcissistic and exploitive need to recapture one's own youth through another who bears one's genetic likeness . . . or what that older person fancies is his/her genetic likeness.

I'm generally a "live and let live" person. But in this case, I support both the laws and social conventions against incest.


I see nothing wrong in uncles marrying nieces, aunts marrying nephews (less common I must add), cousins marrying each other...these alliances were the sort of meddle the royal world was made of.  Some families practiced this endogamy more than others, more in Catholic families (exile, concentration of reduced resources, diplomatic alliances, a reduced number of marriageable candidates), but fascinating nonetheless.

When doing genealogical profiles this is simply wonderful.  Incest does not involve uncles/nieces/aunts/nephews/cousins [sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry (as between a parent and a child) -  
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn].

Would you consider thus the marriage of Carl of Sweden and Ingeborg of Denmark incestuous?  He was her mother's first cousin, which makes his father, Oskar II, both grandfather and great-grandfather of Carl's children?

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: bookworm857158367 on January 27, 2005, 09:26:13 AM
Quote

I see nothing wrong in uncles marrying nieces, aunts marrying nephews (less common I must add), cousins marrying each other...these alliances were the sort of meddle the royal world was made of.  Some families practiced this endogamy more than others, more in Catholic families (exile, concentration of reduced resources, diplomatic alliances, a reduced number of marriageable candidates), but fascinating nonetheless.

When doing genealogical profiles this is simply wonderful.  Incest does not involve uncles/nieces/aunts/nephews/cousins [sexual intercourse between persons too closely related to marry (as between a parent and a child) -  
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn].

Would you consider thus the marriage of Carl of Sweden and Ingeborg of Denmark incestuous?  He was her mother's first cousin, which makes his father, Oskar II, both grandfather and great-grandfather of Carl's children?

Arturo Beéche



Uncles marrying nieces and aunts marrying nephews? Completely beyond the pale! I can't imagine anyone findiing that acceptable. If it took place it must have been centuries ago. First cousins are a different matter, though I'm a little squeamish there as well.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on January 27, 2005, 09:41:43 AM
NOPE...took place less than a century ago...royals and commoners have very different approaches to these matrimonial practices...we Americans get very squeamish about this sort of thing, while in other cultures marriages between first cousins, for example, is no big deal.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on January 27, 2005, 11:20:20 AM
I know this is a dumb question !  What was the name of her book, and is it hard to find ?  Thanks F.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on January 27, 2005, 11:30:02 AM
Marie Bonaparte, by Celia Bertin

At Eurohistory.com we have had copies of it.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 27, 2005, 09:58:45 PM
Sure would have put the Egyptian royals out of business !
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on January 28, 2005, 07:53:46 AM
What was her  connection to Freud ? And was she well educated ? Could her relationship with her husband have caused her interest in phycology ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Dennis on January 28, 2005, 01:19:19 PM
The marriage of Carl of Sweden and Ingeborg of Denmark would have been the marriage of first cousins, once removed.  I think we've all agreed that the marriage of first cousins is not incestuous.

In modern times, the relationship of uncle and nephew is incestuous because one's uncle has the same genes as one of one's parents.  In other words, my brother has the same genetic makeup as my children's father - me.  For what it's worth - the Hebrew Bible prohibits some relationships as being too close (uncle/niece; aunt/nephew) Leviticus 18:6-18
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Paul on January 28, 2005, 01:47:49 PM
The Iberian monarchies seem to have had more than their share of uncle/niece marriages.

Fernando VII of Spain (19th cent) wed 4 times. Two of his wives were his nieces, including the mother of his successor. Felipe II (1500s) and Felipe IV (1600s) also sired their successors off of nieces.

Queen Maria I of Portugal (late 1700s)was married to her uncle, Pedro III. They had two sons and several daughters.
Maria's elder son, Jose, continued to tangle the family tree. He wed a younger sister of Queen Maria, Benedicta. Jose died w/o issue. His brother, John, married a Spanish Bourbon.

Quote


Uncles marrying nieces and aunts marrying nephews? Completely beyond the pale! I can't imagine anyone findiing that acceptable. If it took place it must have been centuries ago.

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Teddy on January 28, 2005, 02:56:52 PM
Felix, the relation between Freud and Marie B. i don't know much about it. But what I know is that Marie B. raised money to save the life of Freud in 1930's to let him bring to England before Hitler catched him.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on January 28, 2005, 07:20:29 PM
Quote
What was her  connection to Freud ? And was she well educated ? Could her relationship with her husband have caused her interest in phycology ?


Here's what the Times obit had to say:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/Fetch.png)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on January 29, 2005, 09:17:01 PM
Like her father, marie Bonaparte was an extremely cultured and learned person.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on January 30, 2005, 07:12:48 AM
At any rate, however we define the relationship of George and Waldemar, the rest of the family don't seem to have been particularly troubled by it.  After all they were not shunned or ostracised, and seemed to have no problems integrating with the rest of the extended family...........
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on January 30, 2005, 08:54:41 AM
Exactly...in fact, when I interviewed a granddaughter of Prince Valdemar several years ago she mentioned "Apapa's special friendship with Uncle Goggy...while at the same time winking!"

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on January 30, 2005, 09:16:27 AM
G.D.E. Thanks for the obit. it  gave so much information  I was looking for.  F.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on February 10, 2005, 02:58:08 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/GeorgeandMarieofGreece.jpg)

I found this picture of George and Marie so I thought that I would post it here; it really shows how lovely she was - he manages to look quite dashing too!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Joanna on February 12, 2005, 09:10:05 PM
There is an interesting film "Princesse Marie" with Catherine Deneuve directed by Benoit Jacquot, France 2004:

"Catherine Deneuve stars as Marie Bonaparte, grand-niece of Napoleon and princess of Greece and Denmark. In the 1920s, suffering from “frigidity,” she travels to Vienna to begin a new experimental form of treatment, psychoanalysis with Dr. Sigmund Freud. Their doctor-patient relationship eventually transforms into a twenty-year friendship, during which Princess Marie served as Freud's disciple, patron and after the rise of the Nazis, protector – at one point personally retrieving Anna Freud from Gestapo detention. Deneuve sparkles both in the intimate scenes depicting her psychoanalysis and in the powerful moments where the Princess' dominating and eccentric personality make her a formidable heroine."

Joanna

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on February 13, 2005, 03:29:41 PM
I had actually just put these still in my bucket after one of my googling adventures:

with 'Eugenie'
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/greece/u_film_id43917491.gif)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/greece/u_film_id43917501.gif)

on the couch
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/greece/u_film_id43917471.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Martyn on February 15, 2005, 11:49:47 AM
Marvellous.  I truly admire Catherine Deneuve and the thought of her playing Marie Bonaparte is very exciting.
I wonder where one can get hold of this film?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Joanna on February 16, 2005, 08:04:14 PM
The film "Princesse Marie" is being shown on the French channel TV5 here in eastern Canada on Saturday February 19th at 11:30PM.

Joanna
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on February 17, 2005, 12:53:30 PM
do you have access to this television channel?

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Joanna on February 17, 2005, 08:43:24 PM
Hi Art

I do have access to TV5 here. We have TV in French and English.

Joanna
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on February 17, 2005, 08:46:25 PM
Lol,will you tape it for us?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Aline on February 26, 2005, 09:00:06 AM
I don`t Know so well a story of Marie Bonaparte. I know that her husband was  homosexual,  but what was so traumatic in her wedding night etc?
Didn`t she know what she was going to do, when she married a prince or was she too young and innocent? If something was completly wrong, it was really a shame that she stayed marrieds with her prince. Yours Aline
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on February 26, 2005, 09:23:10 AM
Aline, I dont think she knew about her husband unil after they were married, F.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on February 26, 2005, 10:45:28 AM
Marie had no clue of George's sexual orientation...those things were not discussed with brides back then...

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Aline on February 26, 2005, 11:48:56 AM
I know that these things werent discussed then. But if You are a healthy youg woman You know if the man want`s you sexually ("the girl always knows") even in victorian time. So was she so innocent (or traumatic) that she didn`t know what was going on? Aline
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on February 26, 2005, 01:06:55 PM
Marie had very little to say in her choice of husband...it was something arranged by her father and George...I think Prince Roland wanted marie married and off his hands ASAP.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on February 28, 2005, 10:28:44 AM
To the Bonaparte's George must have seemed like a big fish.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on February 28, 2005, 05:46:34 PM
Indeed...Roland may have been a "prince" but he had not a drop of royal blood through his veins...he had married for money and then had the good fortune of becoming a widower not long after and with access to his deceased wive's money...marriage to a first cousin of the Tsar of Russia was definitely a matrimonial coup for the Roland "Casino de Monetcarlo" Bonapates!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on March 01, 2005, 11:04:20 AM
Good for the Bonaparte's they made a good match.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Kevin From Australia on May 08, 2005, 07:45:11 AM
I have been trying to find out the details of the christening of all the children of King George I & Queen Olga but I am not having much luck.

I recently visited England and at the Public Records Office, I read the Foreign Office records for Greece - in there I found out that George, the second son was baptised on the 5th of August, 1869 and that his grandfather, Grand Duke Constantine was in Athens for the ceremony.  But I could find no other details - does anyone know???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: felix on May 10, 2005, 04:33:44 PM
 Is George the one who was maried to Marie Bonaparte ? Sorry my mind is failing me today.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Kevin From Australia on May 10, 2005, 04:55:03 PM
That's him - he was everywhere as far as family events were comncerned.

He was grandfather to Grand duke Dimitri (1891-1942) and also to Prince Charles (1948-), with a few god children in between but I acn't find more details on his christening.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on May 11, 2005, 02:23:29 PM
Kevin, I  searched through my russian books and did not find any additional info on the christening you refered. ???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Kevin From Australia on May 11, 2005, 04:28:29 PM
Thank you for that.

I think the only way to find out is old copies of the Greek newspapers but not much chance of that.

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on October 18, 2005, 08:22:57 AM
I found out that there is no much ifm about Prince George.
I know that he saved Nicky in Japan, as well as his behavior was disgusting. He gave very bad influence on Nicky.
Did he changed?
Or if are  there some letters wrote by him ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on October 19, 2005, 12:32:33 AM
What kind of bad influence on Nikolay do you mean,Hikaru? I read that George liked to joke and debauchee...wish I  knew is this info a true.
BTW, there is an interesting thread somewhere in "the Danish Family" on George and his relationship with his uncle Waldemar...it seems George did not care about women :-/.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on October 19, 2005, 06:32:24 AM
It seemed that He cared about everybody.
Bad influence means : " Derzky, ne umeyushy vesti sebya v obschestve podobayuschim obrazom, terpety ne mozet uchastvovaty v predstavitelysky tseremoniyakh".
Did he nave any nickname like "Borovich"?
Maybe somebody hear about it?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on October 19, 2005, 07:56:16 AM
Quote
It seemed that He cared about everybody.
Bad influence means : " Derzky, ne umeyushy vesti sebya v obschestve podobayuschim obrazom, terpety ne mozet uchastvovaty v predstavitelysky tseremoniyakh".
Did he nave any nickname like "Borovich"?
Maybe somebody hear about it?


I see. Never heard about nickname "Borovich". I am curious where did you find this info? In a Russian book?
Possibly there is some info in A.Bokhanov's books.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on October 19, 2005, 08:53:38 AM
I have got this ifm from the first hand - from Nicki's diary and letters. I just would like to clarify if it was about
Georgy or not.
Is there some books or articles about Georgy?
He was a very handsome guy.
It is quite a pitty that we did not give him as much attention like to others.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on October 19, 2005, 12:29:00 PM
not every royal is worthy or in need of a biography.   You will find information about George in the biography of his wife,  Marie Bonaparte, as well as books about the Greek royal house such as the Arthur Gould lee book.  

He was also involved in a relationship with his uncle Waldemar
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on October 19, 2005, 12:54:50 PM
Thank you very much for ifm , Mrs.Koenig.
Maybe he is no worthy but he saved the life of Nicholas.
Maybe he was wrong :P :-X
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on October 19, 2005, 01:02:52 PM
Quote
Thank you very much for ifm , Mrs.Koenig.
Maybe he is no worthy but he saved the life of Nicholas.
Maybe he was wrong :P :-X


Saving Nicholas' life would be more of interest to Nicholas' biographers.  
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on October 19, 2005, 01:38:19 PM
Quote
I have got this ifm from the first hand - from Nicki's diary and letters. I just would like to clarify if it was about
Georgy or not.
Is there some books or articles about Georgy?
He was a very handsome guy.
It is quite a pitty that we did not give him as much attention like to others.


You will find numerous references to George including several interviews in the NYT and the Washington post, for starters. He is mentioned in numerous biographies of other family members.  He served as gov general of Crete, a position that garnered a lot of attention.

There is certainly enough information to write an article.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: isabel on October 20, 2005, 07:18:35 AM
Prince George, the second son of George I of Grece, was born in Mon Repos, in the calm island of Corfú, the 24 of June of 1869. He had a very sweet characthere, and since his childness became very close to his cousin Nicholas of Russia. Both became very special friends during their hollydays in Denmark, and Russia.

"Big George" was specially loved by his relatives because of his characthere and his sense of humor. His cousin Grand Duchess Olga wrote:

"George, who was tall and had beautiful blue eyes, had a moustache wich made him very attractive. All of us loved him, but i was always impressed about him. In this time he had about forteen years old, and there where roumours about a possible romance between him and Photini, one of the nurses. I was very young, but i remember that big people were alarmed"

His parents sended him to Danmark, he joined the cadets scholl, there he was cared by his grand parents, the king Christian and the queen Louise, but specially by his uncle Waldemar who had a big charge in the Danish Marine.

Waldemar was eleven years older, and by this time he was married with Marie of Orleans and had children. George and Waldemar developped a very strong affection. This affection, so difficult to understand by many people, finished only with the death of Waldemar in 1939.

George come back to Grece in 1897 to have part in the Creta´s invasion by Turkey. Then, when Creta had his own governement, he became High Commissary. He left his post in 1906.

In 1906, with 37 years old, he continued single, in september of this year, his father King George visiting Paris, coincided with the Prince Roland Bonaparte, who was looking for a husband for his daugther Marie. George was with his father in Paris. The princess,  was one of the most rich of Europe.

The embassador of Grece in Paris, Mr. Delyannis, suggered Roland the possible marriage. Prince Roland organized a lunch in his appartement of the Iéna Avenue in Paris for 50 people in honnor of King George and his son.

George was sit near the princess, who wrote in her diary: "I love him, he is one of the most seducing men i have ever know" Prince Roland thought that she will neved had an other opportunitie like this.

The marriage was decided. The civil ceremony was in Paris, then an orthodox marriage in Athens.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on October 20, 2005, 11:14:15 AM
[quote author=isabel Waldemar was eleven years older, and by this time he was married with Marie of Orleans and had children. George and Waldemar developped a very strong affection. This affection, so difficult to understand by many people, finished only with the death of Waldemar in 1939.

.[/quote]

Waldemar and George were gay -- they were lovers --uncle and nephew.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on October 21, 2005, 02:16:07 AM
Chaikowsky and his nephew were lovers also.
It is not the end of the world.

I think that Nicholas and George had very similar character, way of thinking etc.
If Nicholas would not become the tsar of whole Russia, and if he was not killed, somebody would think his life is not worthy to speak about.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: isabel on October 21, 2005, 04:30:30 AM
Maria Bonaparte quickly realized the relation between her husband and Waldemar. Her first trip as married woman was to Denmark no know Waldemar and the rest of the danish family. The four first days of their honey moon passed in the yath of King George I, of course with the company of Waldemar.

In despite of this, the relation between George and Marie was excelent, as she wrote : " my husband is boring, but is the only one who will love me until my death.....we will be olders, and we will support each other while life exists"
In compensation, George acepted not only his wife´s love for the culture and the intelectual life but also the differents lovers she had along her life.

All two wanted children,  their first son, the difficult Pedro, was born in 1908, and Eugenia in 1910. In this time Marie wrote "Mi husband is a brother to me, a brother who is the father of my children too..".

In 1914 Marie felt in Love with Aristide Briand (he will be president of french governement), this love will dure several years, meanwhile, George continued his relation with his uncle,  Pedro and Eugenia named him "father number two".

During the first World War, Marie wrote her two first books "Les hommes que j´ai aimés" and "La Grande Guerre, méditations". Her love for Aristide Briand was finishing, he finally was substituted by a new lover, Marie refers to him in her diarys as "Mister X", her secret love. The year 1923 was specially  important to her, she knew doctor René Fafargue, who introduced her in the psychoanalysis world.

During this years monarchie was abolished in Grece, and George scarcely sow his children, he lived in Paris or in Copenhague, children also accused the absences of their mother.

After the IIWW, the four lived in Athenas. In 1941 they had to leave Grece, firs to Creta, later to SouthAfrica.

In 1945 they could return to Paris, where the old lover of Marie "Mister X" died the next year.

With the restauration of the monarchy in 1947 in Grece, Athenes became their second home.

In 1957 George died in their home of Saint Cloud, Marie was near him.

He was buried in Tatoi, Marie wrote: " on his coffin, we have put: two little enamel flags, one grek the other danish,...his alliance, Waldemar´s hair, and the Saint Christopher he gived him, also the Waldemar´s photo in his hands..."

Marie died in 1962 in Saint Tropez, she is buried near her husband in Tatoi.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on October 21, 2005, 05:38:51 AM
Thank you, Isabel , for a wonderful story.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on October 24, 2005, 08:38:27 AM
I don't know--based on the bio on Marie (which drew extensively from her diaries and letters) the marriage caused her a lot of pain. She definitely married for love and it was a huge shock to her to discover that not only wasn't she first in her husband's affections, she was to accept the relationship with his uncle unquestioningly. I can't image many women who would accept this situation happily. Waldemar even accompanied them on their honeymoon. While they did remain together, her feelings went from love to almost hate to acceptance and friendship and all around. It doesn't seem it brought her much contentment or happiness. It was mostly this complex relationship which drove her into her interest in psychoanalysis and her close relationship with Freud.

Some excerpts:
p.94: "In a notebook entitled Le vieux compagnon (The Old Companion) dated Copenhagen, January 1939, Marie Bonaparte retraced thirty years of life shared with Prince George. ...she starts the pages that George most likely never read....He had talked to her about the Friend (Waldemar)...On the wedding night...when he came into her room, he was coming from his uncle Waldemar's, and 'you needed the warmth of his voice, of his hand, and his permission, to get up your courage to approach the virgin...You took me that night in a short, brutal gesture, as if forcing yourself, and apologized, 'I hate it as much as you do. But we must do it if we want children' Two days later, they left on their honeymoon, on the Amphtrite. Waldemar sailed with them. They spent three days together. George cried when they parted from his uncle in Bologna...."  
 
Within a few months Marie felt like leaving Greece for good and never seeing George again but by then it was too late and she was pregnant. They went to her home in Paris for the pregnancy and Marie hoped for better relations.  

p.95: ...describes a day at Bernstorff: She was ready at eleven o'clock..when she joined George, who had been with Waldemar since seven...She called them her 'two husbands' and went for a walk with them, kissing now one, now the other, until it was time for lunch. Then she wrote while Waldemar and George went into town. Around four o'clock, she heard the backfiring of motorycles under her window; George and Waldemar were returning. They all had tea together...[then] spent the evening in the 'deep sweet joy of a tete-a-tete a troit' George, myself, and sweet Waldemar'. "The next day she noted down what she called an evenign scene: Waldemar and George were in her room, where she was lying on a chaise lounge, Waldemar kissing her and George refusing to kiss her the way his uncle did. All this is casually written...She appears a slightly perverse ingenue rather than a young woman developing under the influence of love and approaching motherhood. ...In her journal she addressed George: 'I would need to take refuge from the whole world, to nestle in loving arms. O my darling, understand this, open yours to me!' But there was no chance he would do so. George was not tender toward her,a nd she was realizing it more and more."  As the time grew to leave Bernstorff...whenever Marie tries to talk to him he goes away leaving her 'chillled, wishing for death' and crying..."

On later visits she begins a relationship with Waldemar's son Aage and the odd quadrangle continues.

For a woman who'd craved love so desperately her entire childhood and young adulthood and thought she'd found it in George it was a very rude awakening.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 24, 2005, 06:56:46 PM
Quote
That's him - he was everywhere as far as family events were comncerned.

He was grandfather to Grand duke Dimitri (1891-1942) and also to Prince Charles (1948-), with a few god children in between but I acn't find more details on his christening.


Perhaps Kevin means godfather? Because Dmitri Pavolovich's grandfathers were King George of Greece and Tsar Alexander II of Russia. Charles' grandfathers were King George VII of Great Britain and Prince Andrew of Greece.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on October 24, 2005, 08:31:41 PM
Could be. George was apparently a popular choice for godfather as he was well-liked by the many branches of the family (Danish, Greek, British and Russian).
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on October 24, 2005, 08:33:24 PM
Quote
Could anyone tell me if Prince Andrew The Duke of York named his daughter Princess Eugenie after one of his Greek relatives? Thanks in advance!


When she was born there were lots of stories about Empress Eugenie who'd been so close to the British RF--of course this was long before the current Princess Eugenie. I think that Sarah, who had such an interest in the Victorian circles as shown by her books, liked the name. There could be a Greek connection but if there was it was ignored by the royal media--Majesty, Royalty, et al.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 25, 2005, 09:40:11 PM
Any information on Prince George's son Prince Peter ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: isabel on October 27, 2005, 06:02:09 AM
Quote
Any information on Prince George's son Prince Peter ?



Prince Pedro, the eldest son of Marie and George, was the black sheep of the family, and the greatest critic of Queen Federica. Spoiled by his mother, as a little child, with the pass of the time he was terrible affected by the mother´s absences (when she was a pasionate of pychoanalysis).

He studied in France, later he enroled the Danish Guard, and later return to study in Berlin and London. Also he spoke russian quite well.

They envisaged a posible marriage with Federica of Hannover, his father, Prince George, would like this marriage, but finally the match didn´t goes.

In 1939 he went go India and the Tibet with de famous antrophologist Malinowski, to continue his studies. In this period, he knew a young russian girl named Irina Alexandrovna (she was born in St.Petersburg in 1904, daugther of a goldsmith, and with her family, escaped of the revolution to Crimea). Pedro felt in love with her.

Irina was a divorced women, but Pedro married her in India, in september 1939. George and Marie knew about this, by the press, Prince George never accepted this unequal marriage.

The marriage costed to Pedro, the lost of his royal privileges to the crowns of Denmark and Grece, in despite of this, his mother continued to help him with her financial support.

Irina never was accepted by the Grek family, they called her , contemptuously, "The Russian". For them she was the gulty of Pedro´s estravagances.

During the WWII, they escaped to Creta, beside king GeorgeII, from there, they passed to El Cairo, and then to Jerusalem where they married by the orthodox church.

After the war, and the death of King George II, he had a very difficult relation with King Paul and Queen Federica, who never acepted Irina. They asked him to renounce of his rights to the grek throne, and then they would accept his wife, he didn´t accept.

In Athenes they lived in the little palace of Glyfada, in London they had an appartement near Buchingham Palace, and in Denmark, they lived near Copenhague, in a little villa "Lille Bernstorff", in Gentofte.

They traveled a lot to India and Tibet where they done an extensed social work.

In 1964, after the death of King Paul, he critiquised Queen Federica to the press, and he declared that he was the crown´s heir since the young Constantin had sons (in this time Constantin only child was princess Alexia).

In 1965, during the short reign of his nephew Constantin, he offered himself as alternative, declaring that Queen Federica had to live Grece.

He died in London in october 1980, to his funeral went Queen Federica, fact very surprising knowing the bad relation they had. No one of the family gived regards to the widow.

The Greek governement didn´t want to buried him in Taoi, finally Denmark accepted and he was buried at Gentofte.

Irina recived  as legacy, many of the jewels of Marie of Bonaparte, she subasted many of them by Christie´s in St. Moritz. After, she installed herself in Paris, she died in 1990, and also was buried in Gentofte.


Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on October 28, 2005, 10:06:57 AM
Quote
Any information on Prince George's son Prince Peter ?


See Ricardo Mateos' book LA FAMILIA DE LA REINA SOFIA (La E$sfera de los Libros 2004).

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 28, 2005, 11:21:06 AM
Yes it also cotains info on George's daughter Princess Eugenie of Greece.

There is also a nice colour photo of her in the book.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on October 31, 2005, 03:30:46 PM
Quote
Any information on Prince George's son Prince Peter ?



There is a wonderful book in Danish and in English on Peter ...

and during the 60s numerous articles about Peter's fight with Frederika (and his own marriage of course was not approved - and his wife was not welcome.)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: amelia on October 31, 2005, 06:32:35 PM
Dear LisaDavidson,

Thanks for the information. So, if I am correct, Prince Michael of Greece (the writer) is first cousin to the Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Philip).

Amelia
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 31, 2005, 08:22:25 PM
Yes...that is right. Prince Michael of Greece is the son of Prince Christopher of Greece and Princess Francoise of France. He is also a very talented writer and wrote quite a books on royalty in English, French and even in Greek !

Dear Marlene can you tell me about Books on Prince Peter ? I don't know about that one in English. Who wrote that ? Quess I miss the one in Danish...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on October 31, 2005, 09:52:24 PM
Quote
Yes...that is right. Prince Michael of Greece is the son of Prince Christopher of Greece and Princess Francoise of France. He is also a very talented writer and wrote quite a books on royalty in English, French and even in Greek !

Dear Marlene can you tell me about Books on Prince Peter ? I don't know about that one in English. Who wrote that ? Quess I miss the one in Danish...


Hansen, Mogen Mugge   Venner af Prins Peter/Friends of Prince Peter (1978)   The book is in Danish mostly, but some English
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: isabel on November 01, 2005, 04:18:39 AM
Quote
Any information on Prince George's son Prince Peter ?


One week ago i wrote some information about him, i know my english is not very good,....... but i only want to know if it is understandable, because nobody has mentioned this informations.

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2005, 10:04:41 AM
Thanks Marlene for the information. I guess it will be the second hand bookshops in Demark to find it right ?

No I think your English is not bad...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on November 01, 2005, 11:11:39 AM
Quote
Thanks Marlene for the information. I guess it will be the second hand bookshops in Demark to find it right ?

No I think your English is not bad...



thanks ... I do think my English is quite good ...   ::)  

Seriously, Eric ... you must learn how to edit, and clip and quote (took me awhile to get the hang of it) ...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2005, 11:26:23 AM
Dear Marlene, I was not taking about "your" English. I was commenting on Isabel who said her English was not good. I find that ok...

To Marlene this time, is your German as good as your English ? I hear your ancestor went to school with Kaiser Bill...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on November 01, 2005, 11:44:04 AM
Quote
Dear Marlene, I was not taking about "your" English. I was commenting on Isabel who said her English was not good. I find that ok..."

I know -but you should learn how to quote so your comments are clearer ...."

"To Marlene this time, is your German as good as your English ? I hear your ancestor went to school with Kaiser Bill...


Not anymore .... my great something grandmother was a childhood playmate of Wilhelm and Charlotte ....and that's all you are getting out of me on that one ....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Daniela on November 03, 2005, 06:47:12 AM
Quote
...marriage to a first cousin of the Tsar of Russia was definitely a matrimonial coup for the Roland "Casino de Monetcarlo" Bonapates!


Maria Blanc was a cousin to witch Tsar of Russia?

(http://genealogia.netopia.pt/images/pessoas/pes_108635.jpg)
Maria Blanc
(http://genealogia.netopia.pt/images/pessoas/pes_109346.jpg)
Prince Roland Bonaparte

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marlene on November 03, 2005, 10:17:26 AM
Quote


Maria Blanc was a cousin to witch Tsar of Russia? "


Maria Blanc was not the cousin to Nicholas II ... Marie Bonaparte's husband, George of Greece, and Nicholas were cousins/
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 03, 2005, 09:09:29 PM
Good for the Greeks too ! When they were forced into exile, guess who paid for the education of their kids ? Princess George of Greece ! It was then they realise how handy the casino money come into being...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on November 03, 2005, 10:47:37 PM
Also Princess Anastasia (nee Nancy Leeds) who married Prince Christopher of Greece, George's brother. She was fabulously wealthy. Both women were very charitable towards their Greek in-laws.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 04, 2005, 12:32:33 AM
Alas Nancy died too early...Although his son did marry Princess Xenia of Russia, daughter of Greek Minny.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on November 04, 2005, 01:04:28 AM
Mrs. Leeds may have died "too" early as you point out but the fact of the matter is that her money came in rather handy when help was needed by her Greek in-laws. Had she lived longer, surely she would have been just as willing as Pss Maries to help the exiled Hellenes.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 04, 2005, 12:37:58 PM
Yes...She would have. I wonder what relationship Mrs. Leeds had with her son, Billy. The Royals who knew Princess Xenia painted an unflattering picture of him.

Also is Prince Christopher's second wife as rich as the first ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: TampaBay on November 04, 2005, 03:44:42 PM
Quote
Her father was Roland and her mother Marie Blanc. Roland was descent from Napoleon I brother Lucien. Jerome was first cousin to Roland's father Pierre, right?


Her mother's family, the Blancs, had something to do with the casino in Monte Carlo/Monaco.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 04, 2005, 09:58:29 PM
Yes it is all in Celia Bertin's bio on Marie Bonaparte.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on November 05, 2005, 02:24:08 AM
Quote

Her mother's family, the Blancs, had something to do with the casino in Monte Carlo/Monaco.

TampaBay


Louis Blanc, the grandfather of Princess Marie Bonaparte was the largest shareholder of the Societé des Bains de Mer, better known as the Casino of Montecarlo.

To say that Marie was rich, is an understatement.  Her father was extremely ambitious, as well as a respectable explorer.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 05, 2005, 03:29:06 AM
True...Marie's mother was the victim in the story.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Daniela on November 08, 2005, 06:02:25 AM
Quote
Maria Blanc was not the cousin to Nicholas II ... Marie Bonaparte's husband, George of Greece, and Nicholas were cousins/


Yes, I understand know. I misunderstood the previous post.

Lately, I've been lucky to see part of this film, staring Catherine Deneuve on Slovene national TV.
She (Marie) was remembering her childhood, at one of her séances with Freud and she said that she was jealous with her cousin Geneveve, because this girl was beautiful and she was not. And then her grandmother (I presume it was Justine Eleonore Ruffin) said to Marie not to worry that she may not be beautiful, but she was rich.
Who was this cousin Geneveve? I couldn't find any Geneveve to be Marie's cousin!
Can you help?

Daniela
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on December 30, 2005, 05:14:13 AM
Please somebody, kindly give  me a hint where I could find the copies of letters of Prince George to his mother queen Olga or other relatives dated 1891 year.
I understand that I have to write to some archive, but I have no idea to whichi one - to the Greece or to the England ones?
Thank you very much in advance
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 30, 2005, 09:00:19 AM
On Prince George's letters I think most probably his daughter Eugenie and her decendents may have them.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on January 12, 2006, 05:00:56 PM
Did somebody read the memoirs of Prince George?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 12, 2006, 07:56:32 PM
No are they published ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: hikaru on January 12, 2006, 09:27:03 PM
I saw at the amazon.com
Unfortunately, I can not use it being in Moscow. :-/
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on January 13, 2006, 01:24:54 AM
Yes, for us Russians it's quite difficult to use amazon.com and some other sites here in Russia.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on January 13, 2006, 10:46:35 AM
Quote
No are they published ?


The Cretan drama;: The life and memoirs of Prince George of Greece, High Commissioner in Crete (1898-1906) Edited by A.A. Pallis (Makers of history series) (Unknown Binding)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Kevin From Australia on January 24, 2006, 07:25:30 PM
Foes the book only refer to his time in Crete?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 24, 2006, 08:34:08 PM
Yes I am afraid.  :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LenelorMiksi on January 28, 2006, 12:52:31 AM
  Genevieve was the daughter of Marie's Aunt Jeanne (sister to her father Roland).  I've seen a picture of her and was not too impressed; I think Marie was the prettier of the two, but she couldn't recognize that.  Probably her jealousy stemmed from the amount of parental affection Genevieve received, and the fact that she was more "charming" than Marie in social situations when they were younger.  Marie's father was hardly ever home and her relationship with her grandmother was more like a student to the principal or headmistress of a school than family.  Then Marie went and played the absentee with her children.  Children of aristocratic or royal descent were really lucky if they had parents who dedicated themselves to the family.  
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 29, 2006, 08:39:52 PM
Too much can be trouble too...Look what happen to Queen Alexandra who did not allow her children to grow up !  :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LenelorMiksi on January 30, 2006, 04:58:30 PM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/LenelorMiksi/scan0002.jpg)

This picture is in Celia Bertin's bio of Marie: Marie is the last on the right and Genevieve is third from right in a white dress, standing behind grandmother Princess Pierre.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 30, 2006, 07:16:18 PM
Yes I have that book. A very graphic but honest look at Marie's life.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LenelorMiksi on February 02, 2006, 12:28:54 AM
I know, I really like that book.  I've frequently thought Freud's theories almost total nonsense, but reading more about him and applying his analysis to Marie's life I've come to have more respect for him.  Her life is so much different than the other royals I've read about.  One of the striking differences is her atheism; so many of the bios I've read the person has an ironlike faith as a recurring source to rely on in times of trouble.  Empress Alex'a, Queen Victoria, Nicholas II, Queen Alexandra, Queen Mary...I could go on and on.  The person she most reminds me of is Frida Kahlo, except Marie Bonaparte had a happier life altogether I think.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 02, 2006, 08:00:30 AM
She found contentment and satisfaction in her studies.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 02, 2006, 08:15:07 PM
Marie was extremely lucky in that she was allowed to pursue her interests, and had the money, time, and brains to do it well....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 03, 2006, 02:19:20 AM
Yes...I think it saved her from a life of depression.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on February 03, 2006, 05:53:09 PM
Quote
Marie was extremely lucky in that she was allowed to pursue her interests, and had the money, time, and brains to do it well....


She managed to make lemonade out of lemons for sure. Yet part of the reason for her interest in the subject (and that she had time to spare) was the lack of interest on the part of her husband in her and the complicated (to say the least) state of her marriage.  :-/
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LenelorMiksi on February 04, 2006, 11:38:36 PM
They did become good friends later in life, and her psychological problems stemmed from her earliest childhood.  Her husband never should have married any woman, but he was influenced by the culture of the time and a desire for children.  The accounts of the first years of their marriage are horrifying (esp. the wedding night shudder), but at least Marie found the freedom to search for romance in other quarters.  
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 05, 2006, 07:04:26 AM
Yes...the exact nature of her husband's "friendship" with his uncle was not clear cut at all...very complicated.  ???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 05, 2006, 08:41:31 PM
I've always wondered why such a forward thinking woman as Marie, who was in possession of an immense fortune of her own, simply didn't opt out of her marriage with a divorce.  I know it was uncommon, but it certainly could have been managed.  Marie had the kind of money to do anything she wanted and not care what anyone, royal or not, thought, and was smart enough to make a life on her own.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on February 06, 2006, 12:51:59 AM
Quote
I've always wondered why such a forward thinking woman as Marie, who was in possession of an immense fortune of her own, simply didn't opt out of her marriage with a divorce.  I know it was uncommon, but it certainly could have been managed.  Marie had the kind of money to do anything she wanted and not care what anyone, royal or not, thought, and was smart enough to make a life on her own.



A question to Freud! :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 06, 2006, 03:06:59 AM
Yes !  ;D Marie figured out on her own in the end.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 06, 2006, 07:04:49 AM
Quote


A question to Freud! :)


LOL! :D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 06, 2006, 07:28:31 AM
No sweat !  ;D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: TampaBay on February 07, 2006, 06:16:13 AM
Quote
I've always wondered why such a forward thinking woman as Marie, who was in possession of an immense fortune of her own, simply didn't opt out of her marriage with a divorce.  I know it was uncommon, but it certainly could have been managed.  Marie had the kind of money to do anything she wanted and not care what anyone, royal or not, thought, and was smart enough to make a life on her own.


HRH PC,

The answer is very simple: She did not want a divorce!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LenelorMiksi on February 07, 2006, 05:01:37 PM
She contemplated getting a divorce... they separated for a while, but due to social conditions (stigma) and their children's welfare she decided not to.  If a couple has that much money, it's not like they're forced to spend time together.  Not to mention her other major romances were either already married or noncommital.  Looking back, it was probably a good idea for her since they kept each other company in their old age.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 07, 2006, 06:18:07 PM
Yes, I think it's nice that they did stay together....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 07, 2006, 07:10:20 PM
I think in the end, she accepted her husband as he was. ;D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 07, 2006, 08:33:31 PM
IMO, she was highly evolved as a human.... :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on February 08, 2006, 01:04:12 AM
Quote
I think in the end, she accepted her husband as he was. ;D


Do you think that was funny?  :-/
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 08, 2006, 01:24:17 AM
No...I think she accepted him as he was and lived happily togather and appart. You should see photos of them enjoying each other's company during their sunset years.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on February 08, 2006, 05:51:33 AM
I wish I saw the photos where Marie and George enjoying each other's company! :-/ Sounds unbelievable.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 08, 2006, 04:21:35 PM
Some pictures of Marie:

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9852/bonaparte57iu.jpg)

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7796/bonaparte38bw.jpg)

(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7637/bonaparte42wr.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 08, 2006, 04:25:01 PM
Prince George and Princess Marie of Greece

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1098/bonaparte61sh.jpg)

Princess Marie with her son Peter  

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5008/bonaparte79xt.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 08, 2006, 04:32:14 PM
(http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/5279/bonaparte18bq.jpg)

(http://img426.imageshack.us/img426/5927/bonaparte29bb.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on February 09, 2006, 12:42:37 AM
Thanks for the last 2 pics, Prince Christopher! I've never seen them. Have you ever seen pics of Marie and George together "enjoying each other's company during their sunset years" as Eric said?  ;)

Eric, you used to hint at some unkhown photos and make us envy! ;D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 09, 2006, 04:22:14 AM
No...There are quite a lot of them smiling at each other in old age.  ;D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on February 09, 2006, 10:08:02 PM
Quote
Thanks for the last 2 pics, Prince Christopher! I've never seen them. Have you ever seen pics of Marie and George together "enjoying each other's company during their sunset years" as Eric said?  ;)


You find them in a search of her relationship with Freud. You can even see on the one that it was inscribed to him. Fascinating relationship.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on February 13, 2006, 01:17:24 PM
I know for a fact Marie and her sister in law Helena of Russia HATED each other.

Am not so fond of Marie, am a Helena fan and am also a fan of  her mother the Grand Duchess Vladmir.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on February 13, 2006, 05:28:50 PM
Quote
I think Marie Orleans did not looked too carefully in that relationship, as she was also very independent (unlike Marie who practically came out of the school room).

The bio on Maria Bonaparte paints a rather uncomfortable picture of how Marie Orleans (or, as Marie Bonaparte called her Marie-Waldemar to distinguish between them) dealt with it. Based on the book, she doesn't seem too happy at all and probably had a drinking problem. The whole thing seems rather sordid--especially the part where, in her journal, Marie Bonaparte relates the near menage-a-trois between herself, George and Waldemar. The book describes a day at Bernstorff: "She was ready at eleven o'clock..when she joined George, who had been with Waldemar since seven...She called them her 'two husbands' and went for a walk with them, kissing now one, now the other, until it was time for lunch. Then she wrote while Waldemar and George went into town. Around four o'clock, she heard the backfiring of motorycles under her window; George and Waldemar were returning. They all had tea together...[then] spent the evening in the 'deep sweet joy of a tete-a-tete a troit' George, myself, and sweet Waldemar'. "The next day she noted down what she called an evenign scene: Waldemar and George were in her room, where she was lying on a chaise lounge, Waldemar kissing her and George refusing to kiss her the way his uncle did. All this is casually written...She appears a slightly perverse ingenue rather than a young woman developing under the influence of love and approaching motherhood. "

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on February 13, 2006, 05:30:36 PM
From Marie Bonaparte's biography:

p.94: "In a notebook entitled Le vieux compagnon (The Old Companion) dated Copenhagen, January 1939, Marie Bonaparte retraced thirty years of life shared with Prince George. ...she starts the pages that George most likely never read....He had talked to her about the Friend (Waldemar)...On the wedding night...when he came into her room, he was coming from his uncle Waldemar's, and 'you needed the warmth of his voice, of his hand, and his permission, to get up your courage to approach the virgin...You took me that night in a short, brutal gesture, as if forcing yourself, and apologized, 'I hate it as much as you do. But we must do it if we want children' Two days later, they left on their honeymoon, on the Amphtrite. Waldemar sailed with them. They spent three days together. George cried when they parted from his uncle in Bologna...."  

Within a few months Marie felt like leaving Greece for good and never seeing George again but by then it was too late and she was pregnant. They went to her home in Paris for the pregnancy and Marie hoped for better relations.  
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 13, 2006, 06:58:49 PM
Yes the book was pretty graphic in these points, but honest in dealing with the sex issue. You don't hear of other royals like The Queen, the Queen Mother, Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester or even Queen Marie of Romania wrote so candidly about their sexual life.  ??? :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 06:23:35 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/GandM2.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 06:24:45 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/Gandm1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 06:25:47 AM
Two photos of Marie and George...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 06:26:18 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/MBE.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 06:27:19 AM
Marie with her daughter Eugenie...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 06:28:05 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/MB.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 06:29:07 AM
And Marie alone...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 16, 2006, 07:16:25 AM
Yes, very nice indeed.  It is interesting to see the old photos of Marie, of a time gone by, in contrast to the later ones, taken in "modern times."
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LenelorMiksi on February 16, 2006, 10:37:44 PM
She aged gracefully, although she was saddened by her "loss of looks" or whatever.  To me she has exotic features, I guess she looks really different from the Danish and Greek princesses, but beautiful in her own right and she had great choices in clothing.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on February 20, 2006, 10:29:59 PM
Prince and Princess George with their son- Prince Peter

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/thePrinceandPrincessGeorgewiththeir.jpg)

Prince and Princess George with their children - Prince Peter and Princess Eugenie

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/gjh.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on March 05, 2006, 10:59:59 AM
Sardinian heritage??? ???

Or did you mean Corsican heritage?

That would be better!

Where did you read about a Sardinian background???

Maries grandmother from her mothers side was a German, from where I come from (Friedrichsdorf, near Frankfurt)

She built with her husband the Casinos at Monte Carlo and at my hometown in Germany: Bad Homburg.

Her name was Marie Hensel and was very famous in the region of Friedrichsdorf and Bad Homburg, as she was very generous after she had come to wealth...

originally she came from a poor family , but came to richness by marrying Francois Blanc... ::)

Ever heard about this?
It is an interesting story. ... ;)

In Germany there is a book by Rolf Palm:

"Ich schenk Dir Monte Carlo"

It´s a very nicely written book....












Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dp5486 on March 23, 2006, 03:14:09 PM
In Grand Duchess Olga's biography, it said there were whispers that 14-year-old George had had a relationship with one of the family's Greek nursemaids. Is there any truth to this or just rumors?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on March 25, 2006, 09:06:08 PM
Quote
In Grand Duchess Olga's biography, it said there were whispers that 14-year-old George had had a relationship with one of the family's Greek nursemaids. Is there any truth to this or just rumors?

Which George?  George II, Uncle George, or George Alexandrovich?

Artuor Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Alicky1872 on March 26, 2006, 08:36:43 AM
Quote
Quote
In Grand Duchess Olga's biography, it said there were whispers that 14-year-old George had had a relationship with one of the family's Greek nursemaids. Is there any truth to this or just rumors?

Which George?  George II, Uncle George, or George Alexandrovich?

Artuor Beéche

Prince George of Greece. (son of King George I) This is also mentioned in Thro Aronson's A Family of Kings. I wouldn't be surprised if it were true!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 26, 2006, 10:15:44 AM
I beg to differ. If that had been true, Prince George would not have have to ask his uncle what to do on his wedding nite with Princess Marie. I guess he was a virgin as far as girls are concerned.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on March 26, 2006, 11:22:44 AM
Not necessarily.

He could've had a fling when he was fourteen--a randy young boy, unsure or unaware where his interests lay. Any questions towards his uncle (not an insignificant choice given that he had a father and married brothers and male cousins) could've very well had to do with what to do with a wife when your interests, and affections, lay elsewhere.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 26, 2006, 11:42:08 AM
I think you should reread Bertin's book on Princess George of Greece.

The wedding night was pretty graphic in the book as he told her that he hated the act of mating as much as she would have. That does not seemed like someone who had enjoyable sex with a woman before. Certainly George indicated that he only did it to have children and recieved no joy came out of it.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on March 26, 2006, 11:49:26 AM
Thank you for the advice Eric. I have posted the excerpts about the wedding night on this very thread so I'm familiar with it.  :)

No one said that he had 'enjoyable sex' with the nurserymaid--Olga said only a relationship--you had said he was a virgin. He could very well have had a fling because it's what was expected of young men or to convince himself he wasn't partial to men. Not uncommon then, not uncommon now.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 26, 2006, 12:01:23 PM
Since the relationship was seen by a woman (Grand Duchess Olga), George may not have gone all the way with the nursemaid. Quite a few female relatives found George to be quite a flirt, including the late Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte of Luxembourg. Who remember her cousin "Georgi" rather fondly. I think with this we may never know the turth as it was between the two. However due to Princess Marie Bonaparte, it does not seemed likely (at least I am not convinced with whatever evidence we have). It boiles down to what "would have",  "possibily have " or "may have" happened.  :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on March 27, 2006, 05:26:55 PM
Quote
I think you should reread Bertin's book on Princess George of Greece.

The wedding night was pretty graphic in the book as he told her that he hated the act of mating as much as she would have. That does not seemed like someone who had enjoyable sex with a woman before. Certainly George indicated that he only did it to have children and recieved no joy came out of it.


Frankly, no one here can make these sort of statements.  No one here, and we can speculate of course, but no one can say that they for sure "know" that George of Greece arrived at his wedding night a virgin.  Many homosexuals know how to function in a heterosexual encounter.

Artuor Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on April 12, 2006, 05:24:43 AM
Here is finally the picture of Francois Blanc, the grandfather of Marie Bonaparte, who founded the casino in my home town Bad Homburg in Germany, and then that of Monte Carlo...still very famous:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/FrancoisBlanc.jpg)


http: //i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/FrancoisBlanc.jpg

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on April 12, 2006, 05:33:16 AM
Here is Marie Hensel from Friedrichsdorf In Germany (not far from Bad Homburg) the poor girl from a family of a shoe-maker with a lot of children.

She came to wealth when she married Francois Blanc (he sent her before the marriage in the best schools to learn the best French and how to behave in a high society...)

She became very rich, gave much money to poor people and to her family and to others, and became grandmother of the famous Marie Bonaparte....

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on April 13, 2006, 03:37:28 AM
Marie and her granddaughter Tatiana :)


(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/TPN05164_10671.jpg)


Marie as young woman:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/TPN05164_10660.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on April 13, 2006, 04:51:41 PM
Didn't know were to post this, but there is a new bio in Danish about Princess Marie, Prince Georg and Sigmund Freud. I havn't read it yet, so I don't know if it's good, but some of the pictures were great and new to me!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on April 14, 2006, 04:15:39 AM
Hello,
 
I am very interested in Marie Bonaparte, and I am going to write an article on her, I have read the biography by Celia Bertin, and it was fascinating her personality and her life ....

In general there are not many biographies and books about Marie, so I would be very curious about the danish book you have mentioned. Please tell and post interesting information here, and also rare pictures of you have!

I would be interested in your answer!

Thanks for a contribution!

Britta  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on April 21, 2006, 08:00:07 AM
I havn't read the book yet, but when I do I will give you some info. :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on May 05, 2006, 05:23:02 AM
Yes I have seen the film and in general it was great. Yes, that Marie was blonde is not so good, she was a really dark haired and dark eyed person, like Prince Roland...

I was also surprised a bit, that in the film Maries realtionship to freud was so little cordial at the beginning, and also Marie did not seem sensitive enough to me....I do not know, how she really was, but in the film she sometimes showed onlys little feelings and was only a "I know what I want" person without many feelings etc, not really sensible, also to her children not such a good mother Strange...

I imagine Marie more sensible than in the film, I must say, but maybe I am not right.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on May 05, 2006, 07:55:36 AM
Quote
I do not know, how she really was, but in the film she sometimes showed onlys little feelings and was only a "I know what I want" person without many feelings etc, not really sensible, also to her children not such a good mother Strange...


I have not seen the movie but I don't think Marie could be given the "Mother of the Year" award.  She was too self-involved.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on May 06, 2006, 12:09:53 PM
Yes, maybe you are right, she seemed -especially in the film- to leave her son and daughter alone very often, even if they had problems, to make her "analyses" with Freud at Vienna. Even if her children were already almosz grown up at this time, she often did not think of them at all (in the film, in the book of Celia Bertin this topic is not so clear I think, yes maybe I have already forgotten some things as I read the book some years ago).
Once in the film, when she came home from Vienna from her analyse, somebody said to her: "Your daughter Eugenie wants to see you and wants to say hello" and she said: "I´ve got things that are more important..."
I don´t know if is was that extreme also in reality, but in fact she was a person, who wanted to go her own way even if there were many difficulties, especially because of her standard etc.
I have also read in her book, that she once "escaped" during a royal ceremonial, a marriage or something similar, to held a speech somewhere else about the sexuality of women....!
I think, this also speaks already for itself :o
Despite of all, I thought about a person with more sensibility in connection with her...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on May 06, 2006, 05:10:43 PM
Quote
she seemed to leave her son and daughter alone very often, even if they had problems, to make her "analyses" with Freud at Vienna. Even if her children were already almosz grown up at this time, she often did not think of them at all (in the film, in the book of Celia Bertin this topic is not so clear I think, yes maybe I have already forgotten some things as I read the book some years ago).

Yes, she did do this.  She left her children at crucial times in their lives.  I think Eugenie was very sick once and Marie left her.  It affected the relationship they had with their mother.  Bertin discusses this in the biography of Marie.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on May 07, 2006, 08:43:21 AM
Yes, this was also shown in the film. As I have read the book some years ago, I did not remember what it exactly told concerning this story with Eugenie. I think Marie was to occupied with her self-finding and her new discovering of solutions for the problems of her past and youth. On the one hand, one can understand her, as the analyses changed her life completely, but on the other hand she should have thought a bit more of her children, especially because she knew from her own childhood and early years, how it is, if one is left alone with problems!
However the topic is much more complex I think...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: AnnieB on May 11, 2006, 07:08:06 AM
I found this discussion after watching reruns of "A Royal Family" where the close friendship of Waldemar and George was mentioned a couple of times.   After reading this discussion and a couple of related ones in the forum I have a few observations and questions:
1. Whether they were lovers or had a romantic friendship,  I wonder if George had more invested emotionally than Waldemar, and whether Waldemar suffered George's love or truly reciprocated?
2. Their wives were admirable ladies. I think myself Marie Orleans was the less resilient about the situation as evidenced perhaps by her drinking, morphine addiction and maybe her early death.
3.  I can't understand George's motives for marrying at 38. Was it family pressure or monetary reasons? As he was a second son there was no need to produce an heir for Greece, especially as his older brother had sons.
4.  It is very touching that Marie Bonaparte placed in George's coffin a lock of Waldemar's hair and in his hands a portrait of Waldemar. It reminded me of Queen Alexandra's gracious gesture to Edward VII's mistress at his deathbed, and Queen Victoria and the portrait of John Brown.  In the film of Waldemar's funeral procession on "A Royal Family" I think it is George who is the principal mourner.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Iskenderbey on May 11, 2006, 11:08:56 AM
Do not forget that from about 29 till about 37 George was High Commissioner of Semi-Autonomous Crete.  So I am sure his duties probably prevented the question of marriage with all his duties and the headaches within Crete.

Regards
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on May 13, 2006, 04:51:05 AM
Quote
Do not forget that from about 29 till about 37 George was High Commissioner of Semi-Autonomous Crete.  

Regards

And what he was doing before 29 ? :) Sailing I guess.

I think the main George's reason for marrying Marie Bonaparte was MONEY.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on June 19, 2006, 02:56:15 PM
I just finished the bio on Marie, George and Freud. I enyoyed it, but mainly because I hadn't read her memoirs, or the Célia Bertin book, which this book quotes. Most of Maries personel letters and diaries are closed to the public until 1920 so much is not included.
The bio contains a lot of Maries work, essays, books and such, and the relationship between her and Freud. Because of the focus on psychotherapy, it also has quite a lot of sexual related topics that is pretty intens (at least if you didn't expect it to be so graphic).  
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on June 19, 2006, 03:04:19 PM
Regarding pictures in the book, I think most of them are in the previous bio/memoirs on Marie, but new to me!
But a few pictures from the book.
Marie with Prince Peter
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/mariewpeter.jpg)

The whole family.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georgfam.jpg)

And Prince Georges 80 birthday in Denmark.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georg80.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on June 19, 2006, 10:34:04 PM
Great pictures, kmerov, thanks for posting them!  :) :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on June 20, 2006, 02:21:06 AM
Really great pictures!!! I have never seen them, they are not in the book by Celia Bertin (not on my book with the blue cover)

Are there more of them? Especially the family picture is fantastic, it´s not in the other book of Marie Bonaparte.

In the book by Bertin there is also a lot about sexuality, Marie Bonaparte seemed to be concerned a lot with this because of her own problems in this :o, which she wanted to solve. She has also written a lot on female sexuality and divided the women in different groups...and so on and this was quite new in this time that a lady from this standard was concerned with these things. With her friend Ruth Mack she talked about those things very openly, and this was very unusul at that time, especially for an aristocratic woman like her. She really broke limits at this time, but she knew what she wanted.

But despite of her analyses I think she had always sexuality problems and had always the desire to "love like other women" (her frigidity :o ;D)

But everything is much more complex.

Thanks for the pictures.

Are there more of her family and children?  I never saw Peter at this age, only two adult pictures and one Baby picture! :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on June 21, 2006, 05:51:15 PM
Marie Bonaparte was a very fascinating person, and she does stand out among other royalty with her "issues", and interests in psychology. She dosn't seem to have been treated very well by the other Greek princesses, and she was nothing like the other members of the Glücksborg family.  
But an interesting person and I like some of her stories like "Flyda of the Seas".
Her frigidity and her way of trying to resolve it was very new to me! ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on June 21, 2006, 06:01:40 PM
These are all the pictures that I have. The family and Prince Valdemar.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/famvald.jpg)

George and Marie with their daughter and grandchildren.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georgemarieeugenie.jpg)

And a picture of  Prince Valdemar with Freud and his wife in the garden at Maries home in Paris after the Freuds escape from Austria.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/valdfreudwif.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on June 21, 2006, 11:04:20 PM
Knowing George & Waldemar's relationship, I wonder what went through Marie's head when he's standing right there in a family portrait?  :-/ It had to have been so awkward--no wonder she was attracted to Freud and psychology.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on June 22, 2006, 04:14:18 AM
The pictures are really nice and were very new to me. They are not at all in the book of Celia Bertin, but complete different. There are hardly family pictures in the Celia Bertin biography.

Yes it is indeed quite strange to see Valdemar on a family picture with Marie, Georg and the children and I must say I have never seen it before like this :o

In the Celia Bertin book there is a picture with George and Valdemar together, but not with them and the other family members like Marie and the children

In the bio stands that he was called "Papa two" by the children Eugenie and Peter... ;D

And in the film Marie confronted her husband with his "strange" relation to Valdemar and tried to interprete this with her "phychoanalytical view" , after Georg was argueing with her because she spent so much money for her interest in the Analyses.

Thanks for the nice & rare pictures!!! :)

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on June 22, 2006, 11:00:59 PM
Quote
Knowing George & Waldemar's relationship, I wonder what went through Marie's head when he's standing right there in a family portrait?  :-/ It had to have been so awkward--no wonder she was attracted to Freud and psychology.

I wondered the same thing.  Makes me think that George considered him as important as he did his wife and children....which I'm sure he must have.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on June 23, 2006, 03:42:56 AM
So everyone went his own way, Marie felt more attraction for the analyses, but it´s amazing that they never really "broke" or divorced. There are still pictures in the Bertin bio with Marie and George, when both are very old! ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on June 23, 2006, 05:20:13 PM
The picture with Valdemar and the George's  was taking in Denmark at Bernstorff. Prince Peter was in the Danish army at that time.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on June 24, 2006, 03:49:47 AM
Interesting, maybe it only seems like this and it´s no family picture and that sense, and they are only standing there togehter like this to underline the "danish" roots of Prince Peter... :o

Do you have any exact date of the picture? How old may Prince Peter be? He´s still smaller than the father, but Georg must have been very tall, it stands in Bertins book.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: RomanovFan on June 24, 2006, 07:52:09 PM
Quote


Uncles marrying nieces and aunts marrying nephews? Completely beyond the pale! I can't imagine anyone findiing that acceptable. If it took place it must have been centuries ago. First cousins are a different matter, though I'm a little squeamish there as well.

Me too! But with the uncles marrying nieces and aunts marrying nephews---that's not only genetically screwed up as far as the children of those unions go, but it's definately inscest and wrong.
Why do you think the Hapsburgs were so messed up?
King Philip II of Spain (husband of Mary I of England) (it was either him or one of his Austrian cousins)--his mother was also his first cousin--he was so messed up mentally and phyiscally that his internal organs weren't even fully developed as an adult! The aunt/nephew, uncle/neice marriage thing was deadly, not just incestual.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on July 02, 2006, 10:38:07 PM
Marie Bonaparte's marriage to George of Greece was arranged by her father and grandmother.  She had almost no say in the mattter.

As for George and Waldemar's "close" friendship...I have discussed this with several of their descendants and it is an acknowledge secret within the family realm that they cared for each other more than an uncle cares for a nephew, or viceversa.  "Inseparable, they were inseparable (as an eye blinks at me), for those times, for the family to tolerate that relationship, and for grandmother to put up it with, amazing, simply amazing, I think we royals have generally been more tolerant of these things than the bourgeois" said a grandchild of Waldemar to my tape recorder.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Seth Leonard on July 02, 2006, 10:52:40 PM
Art,

I know which grandchild you are referring to. I must say that if that descendant of Waldemar was as candid throughout the whole interview as it was in that remark then the interview must have been very, very interesting.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on July 02, 2006, 11:00:01 PM
Quite candid indeed...and I promised not to publish the entire interview until the grandchild dies.  No scandal really, not what it was meant to be, simply an honest series of talks between two people interested in the same subject...royalty.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Seth Leonard on July 02, 2006, 11:03:19 PM
Quote
Quite candid indeed...and I promised not to publish the entire interview until the grandchild dies.  No scandal really, not what it was meant to be, simply an honest series of talks between two people interested in the same subject...royalty.

Arturo Beéche

Since the grandchild added that stipulation, I hope that you don't have to publish the interview for many more years ;).
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on July 03, 2006, 01:01:23 AM
I hope I do not have to be facing that freedom for many, many years as this person is simply wonderful and I shall be sad, terribly sad, if God sends an untimely summons.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on July 03, 2006, 04:53:48 PM
Quote
Interesting, maybe it only seems like this and it´s no family picture and that sense, and they are only standing there togehter like this to underline the "danish" roots of Prince Peter... :o

Do you have any exact date of the picture? How old may Prince Peter be? He´s still smaller than the father, but Georg must have been very tall, it stands in Bertins book.

The picture was taken in 1932. The occassion was the silver-wedding of George and Marie which was celebrated in Denmark.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on July 04, 2006, 12:25:18 AM
Was there any comment about how well Marie Orleans dealt with it? It's a sad picture painted in Marie Bonaparte's biography. Of all the participants, I feel the most for her. She seems to have had so many wonderful characteristics and deserved to have someone really love her. How much was Waldemar able to give? Not only wasn't he inclined that way--though they did have a pretty large family--but his heart was given elsewhere. 'Tolerating the relationship' is one thing, but it must've been painful, especially since it seems G&W were always together. In photo after photo they're there. There wasn't really any escape for Marie Orleans since George was a family member. If it had just been another person, there would've been some separation but the familial relations put it 'in her face' so to speak. I wouldn't have wanted my husband's lover on family vacations and in family portraits. It just seems cruel, especially if it was known within the family. Did anyone ever get angry over that aspect? :( It's Marie who seems to have been the loser in this quadrangle.

BTW, I've had family members in this position and the 'bourgeois' does pretty well in our case.   ::)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on July 04, 2006, 01:05:05 AM
Dear Courtney,

I have said enough really...I don't think I am ethically at liberty to provide answers to your very good questions...we will have mto wait some more years!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on July 04, 2006, 03:53:01 PM
Well, I wouldn't want you to break confidences!  ;)

I was thinking that perhaps someone knew though, apart from any private conversations? There's information out there but I've only been able to read bits and pieces since English is the only language I can read fluently in. So much good information seems to be coming out in recent years but in Danish or Greek or Russian or French. I thought that perhaps something had been indicated in any of those materials.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on July 05, 2006, 10:16:59 AM
In the case of my spouse the "bourgeois" have failed us completely and go to great lengths to make life miserable, like ot showing up at funerals, birthdays, Thanksgiving, yet going about life thinking themselves better than others becuase they "have accepted Christ" into their lives...or as I call it to their face, found in this "Christ" business an excuse to hate and discirminate against their own flesh and blood.  Really dreadful people they are...

As for George and Waldemar, and this is me speaking, I believe that notions of marital fidelity were completely foreign to most royal ladies at the time.  Many a royal husband found enjoyment in the arms of women other than their wives...the wife, seen as a paragon of virtue, was expected to put up and shut up (dreadful of course)...in the case at hand the royal husbands under discussion found enjoyment in the arms of each other.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on July 05, 2006, 07:37:55 PM
Yes, I know about the infidelity part--and it is dreadful, just witness Queen Alexandra and putting up with all Bertie's infidelities--and played out in public! My main point was that most royal infidelity didn't take place within the family and the cheated on spouse didn't have to pose for multiple family pictures with her husband's lover.  :( That was something fairly unique to the situation, unlike your basic infidelity. Plus, Queen Alexandra could at least console herself with (rightly or not) the claim that Bertie loved her best. Marie had to have known that she was 2nd. I don't know if George or Waldemar carried on liaisons outside their own relationship but having to deal with a spouse that carries on a relationship that lasts decades and isn't your run-of-the-mill cheating but rather an intense emotional one must have been very painful.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on July 05, 2006, 08:11:59 PM
No doubt...but it speaks volumes for the two Maries!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on July 07, 2006, 01:01:53 PM
As a genealogist I like gto see endomarriage...just my personal like.

In my own ancestry there is quite a bit of intermarriage.  My maternal grandmother, for example, was the daughter of double first cousins.  BoyB married to GirlC, and GirlB married to BoyC.

On my father's side both his great-grandfather and great-great-grandfather married into the same family, both marrying girls who were first cousins to each other.  Thus, my faher's great-great-grandfather was married to a girl born in 1837, while their eldest son married his mother's first cousin who was born in 1860. Twenty three years separated the two girl first cousins, one becoming the mother-in-law of the other.

Put both examples in an ancestors' chart and it looks amazing!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Richelieu00 on June 13, 2007, 02:17:36 AM
Hi ALL!

I thought it might be interesting to get this thread going again? Thanks Britt for making me aware of the thread. Marie Bonaparte sounds really interesting, particularly in light of the relationships that she maintained during her life. I think that it is important to consider that life was different at this time and it appears that she found a way to continue on with her duties and also fulfill her life?.

P.S. Britt did you end up writing an article about her?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 13, 2007, 02:56:14 AM
I think a book about the whole family (George, Marie, Peter & Eugenie) would be great !  :D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Richelieu00 on June 13, 2007, 03:09:15 AM
The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, who passed in 2005, seemed to think highly of Marie and husband, interestingly she also thought highly of “Uncle Goggy” it seems most people in the family weren’t worried about their relationship?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Richelieu00 on June 13, 2007, 03:10:23 AM
P.S.  A book would be great, they are all so fascinating!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 13, 2007, 04:24:39 AM
Marie's husband was "Goggy" ?  :o You must be talking about Uncle Vladimar  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on June 13, 2007, 06:10:56 AM
Hello....

No, until now the article is not finished. I 'm having that plan already for a long time, but did have too much work for university and so on, but the ERHJ would still be interested and so I will try to work more intensive after my next exams...I will mostly base the article on the book of Célia Bertin and some others, but also try to get soms material from thr archives of my hometown, where her maternal grandparents had a lot of influence. I would also appreciate to contact Tatiana Radzwill to ask her about her memories, but I had so many unsuccesses with contacts to such people in the last time, that I am still thinking about if yes, or if not.
For me it was mostly fascinating that Marie Bonaparte broke the chains of her social class and dedicated herself to a science, which was rather considered as something jewish and "averaged", but despite of that she never really broke with her family or the house, where she had married into. This complete changement of her when being over fourty was very interesting to me, because as a child she often was depressive and did not have much confidence at all, was always bored about the life with her grandmother, who was so jealous of her wealth. She also considered herself as ugly, and was never dressed as good as her cousins. So when her father gave a great ball for her at Paris, (she was seventeen at that time, and the gossip was telling that she never appeared in public) it was something totally unusuall to her, to see herself as find and good looking young lady. She loved her father over all, but he never gave her the love back, which she wished. He was so busied with his botanic studies and often she did not see him for a long time, because of his endless vacations. Even when marrying Prince Georg, she  was never very happy, she knew there was more in her than only being mother of two children, and when she meat Freud, she knew that it was her new task, firstly to understand the background of many of her fears of her childhood and then also to help other people with the same problems. A great role was playing the topic on sexuality, especially the female sexually, which was something "new" at that time. As you said, Rich, it was a complete different time in the War and there it was indeed something senational to talk openly about sexuality. But Marie did it. Firstly with Freud, then he discussed with other about that, for example with Ruth Mack. The sexual "liberation" was the most important to her. She wrote from the woman's fear of the men's penis, and the penis envy and topics like that, for her the reason of many neuroses. Depite of that Marie always stayed with her "greatest" problem, her frigidity.
It was also interesting how she helped many of her companions like Sigmund Freud's family to escape from the Nazis, which was only possible because of her money.  Marie did lots of works even until her old age, and for example also fighted strongly against death penalty (Caryl Chessman etc), she wanted to prefer a therapy for those people, as she was always "fascinated" by the phenomen of murderers. For example she called her great-granduncle "a monumental murderer".
There is much more to say...but much also already known here, isn´t it?

Yes, it would be interesting to have a book only of Marie, Georg, Eugenie, and Peter etc. but I never found any. The literature about that is rather rare, even about Marie. Some years before I didn't even know her.
Rich, where did you find it about the relationship of the Grand Duchess of Lux. to Marie? It's interesting. And yes, for example Eugenie and Peter were used to the relationship of Georg with Waldemar, and called him "Papa two"... :o
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Richelieu00 on June 13, 2007, 10:10:56 AM
I got hold of a documentary series called "A Royal Family", I believe it may have been made by some Australians? It looks into the link between Christian the IX of Demark and his link to all the great European Royal houses. That is where I found out about the Grand Duchess.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on June 13, 2007, 01:42:05 PM
Maybe it could be interesting for my article, if it bears infos on the relationship of Marie with the grandduchess, especially, how she judges her, or something like that. If you know, where to get that text, I would be very interested!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 13, 2007, 08:00:21 PM
"A Royal Family"  is available through "Majesty Magazine" (they also have the video too !)  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on June 23, 2007, 03:04:16 AM
What is on that video exactly? But there is not Princess Marie to see?

If so, it would be phantastic, but I don't think so. so who is in the film?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 24, 2007, 12:56:05 AM
Well...We have the late Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte talks about her cousin "goggy".
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on August 11, 2007, 03:08:24 AM
Tiara of Marie Bonaparte:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/200699-70.jpg)

Other jewelly:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/200699-72.jpg)


Marie at the court of her father- in- law:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/0701-1.jpg)

Other pic of an older Marie:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/Bonaparte.jpg)

Always again fascinating to me how she connected royal elegance with the simplicy and practice of Freuds civil and "jewish" subject! ;)

PS. Hope article is coming soon ;)

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 11, 2007, 11:41:35 PM
Lovely pics of her jewels. Were they sold at Sotheby's ot Christie's ?  ???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on August 12, 2007, 02:44:37 AM
Oh, I don't know. The pictures are a bit blurry, it's a pity, I couldn't catch them bigger. It was only a case that I found them at an online photographic collection. It would be interesting to see them closer, I'm also not sure, who inheritated Marie's jewels, I suppose Eugenie and then Tatiana ???. Do do you anything about, if there were sold? I hope to get a chance to contact Tatiana for my article. Maybe she knows anything about it. I think she lives at Saint Tropez.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 12, 2007, 08:05:29 PM
An ideal hub for Paparazzi !  :P... I think they looked like that they were either being exhibited or done for an auction catalogue. I know the diamond and leaf tiara was sold as I saw it in an antique jewelry store in Bond Street.  ::)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on August 13, 2007, 04:52:15 AM
You're well informed..I didn't know it. But why were they sold? Did noone of the relatives want to have them? ???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 13, 2007, 05:27:12 AM
Don't know...Maybe there isn't enough events to warrent so many tiaras in the family. Also the only heirs seem to be in the female line (Prince Peter died without issue and before that he auctioned a lot of things in Greece).  ???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Janet Ashton on August 24, 2007, 02:56:35 PM
Since the relationship was seen by a woman (Grand Duchess Olga), George may not have gone all the way with the nursemaid. Quite a few female relatives found George to be quite a flirt, including the late Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte of Luxembourg. Who remember her cousin "Georgi" rather fondly. I think with this we may never know the turth as it was between the two. However due to Princess Marie Bonaparte, it does not seemed likely (at least I am not convinced with whatever evidence we have). It boiles down to what "would have",  "possibily have " or "may have" happened.  :(

I know this thread is quite old, but seeing it and feeling I could add something was one of the reasons I decided to register again on this board:

I wanted to point out that Olga was one year old when George was fourteen. In Vorres rendition of her memoirs she (or Vorres) implies that she heard about the affair with the nursemaid during a visit to Denmark around the time it occurred. This is impossible. I suspect that Olga either heard about it later, or is confusing her Grand Dukes - or Vorres muddled something.....At any rate, as you say, Eric, the affair definitely falls under "may possibly" have occurred.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitri on August 24, 2007, 11:11:59 PM
sounds like unsubstantiated rumour to me ...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 25, 2007, 09:12:39 PM
Tiara of Marie Bonaparte:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/200699-70.jpg)

Other jewelly:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/200699-72.jpg)


Marie at the court of her father- in- law:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/0701-1.jpg)



The images of Marie's jewelry are lovely.  She has always been one of my favorites.  It is interesting, her diamaond leaf jewelry, worn as a tiara in the portrait, is reminiscent of the garlands worn by her ancestral uncle, The Emperor Napoleon.  I wonder if it was a nod toward her heritage?  I would think so.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 26, 2007, 10:10:25 PM
Indeed...Especially if you put that with Marie Bonaparte 's testimony that her husband don't know how to deal with her on her wedding night. That sounds highly improbable.  ::)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Iskenderbey on August 30, 2007, 12:16:03 PM
Indeed...Especially if you put that with Marie Bonaparte 's testimony that her husband don't know how to deal with her on her wedding night. That sounds highly improbable.  ::)

Considering that Marie Bonaparte seems  a bit of a hysteric and neurotic, I would take her claims about their wedding night with a grain of salt.  Just because he might have man-handled her (no pun intended) into consummation of the marriage, does not mean that George was incapable of sexual performance with a woman. 

In my opinion, Marie seemed like a very emotionally deprived woman, and unfortunately, George was probably not the best match for emotion and sentimentality.  After all, he was a navy man, and we know that at that time, all the navy men were quite gruff.

Lest we forget, however, that Marie could never be satisfied.  After all, how many times did she undergo an operation to satisfy her sexual needs and still considered them failures.

An interesting character, yes she was....but we cannot take her view of George as gospel.

Regards   
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 30, 2007, 07:47:23 PM
Well...Not if you match that with his alleged "close" relationship with his uncle Waldemar (that coupled with his strong religious sentiments). That hardly translated into someone who would take advantage of a nurse maid. No I don't believe it one bit.  >:(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eurohistory on August 30, 2007, 08:42:22 PM
Well...One would have to listen to the granddaughter of Prince Waldemar discussing his "special" friendship with Prince George.

Even within the family circle this is very much accepted as fact.  No shame in it, why should there be...at least both were in love with each other and both fulfilled their royal duties to perfection, from fathering children to their careers.

Unless...we are witnessing here some ugly signs of homophobia, which of course, one hopes is not the case...

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 31, 2007, 12:47:19 AM
Well said !  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitri on August 31, 2007, 08:32:54 PM
Uncles and nephews can and in many cases do have special relationships. What is strange about that? I doubt though most of them ever become anything sexual. I don't think there was anything remiss between these two men. I have a good relationship with my nephew but the thought of anything sexual is quite sick if you ask me. Why is it that some contributors are so interested in looking for sexual relationships that never existed? That seems quite bizarre to me.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 02, 2007, 09:17:42 PM
Well...That is the problem. You are not them...You cannot put yourself in those shoes. Waldemar and George had a special relationship that cannot be severed (not even by their eventual marriages). I found such love moving.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitri on September 02, 2007, 10:29:13 PM
Yes the love of a devoted Uncle and nephew .. nothing more.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 03, 2007, 12:05:15 AM
According to you...But not among those close to them. Even the two Marie's accepted the second place that is allotted to them. ONLY nephew and uncle...Bah !  :D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitri on September 03, 2007, 11:56:18 AM
Eric do some reading and you will find the heresay you are stating is not true.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 04, 2007, 04:48:16 AM
I did more than reading and got info from Denmark through the family. It is known all the time.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Iskenderbey on September 04, 2007, 12:56:05 PM
Well...Not if you match that with his alleged "close" relationship with his uncle Waldemar (that coupled with his strong religious sentiments). That hardly translated into someone who would take advantage of a nurse maid. No I don't believe it one bit.  >:(

Eric,

Simply b/c he had a sexual relationship with his uncle Waldemar, does not mean he wasn't also capable of engaging in sexual encounters with the opposite sex. 

Regards
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Ilias_of_John on September 04, 2007, 06:20:39 PM
This family has certainly had an interesting existence hasn't it?
I wonder if there was any alcohol or other abuse involved?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 04, 2007, 08:19:43 PM
Indeed ! Also if Marie Bonaparte is to be believed, then I don't think George is much of a sexual hunter if he has to run to Uncle Waldermar for a crash course in sex. On the flip side, George is reported to be quite religious, I don't think that makes the nanny story any believable either. However George ("Cousin Geoggy" as remembered fondly by the late Duchess of Luxembourg) was known to be a flirt and played practical  jokes on both male & female relations (the proof is in the home movies). My own guess is the prim nanny was just a victim of the rough house type of jokes, rather than a sexual attack. That makes more sense to me.  :o
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitri on September 05, 2007, 06:49:19 AM
It is preposterous to comment on these two gentlemen having the sordid relationship referred to. Check things out with the family and you will find there was nothing unusual about the Uncle-Nephew relationship.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Ilias_of_John on September 05, 2007, 06:46:52 PM
Dont worry about this issue anymore. It's all in the past and they are both dead. No one will ever REALLY know and it is not going to affect any of us. Next topic please.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 05, 2007, 08:30:38 PM
Well...I can fully understand Dimitri's dismay, even I was shocked when they (the family) confirmed the rumour was true. Celia Bertin's bio on Marie Bonaparte solidify the claim in my mind. I think one of the reasons that Waldermar's private papers are still under lock and key and barred from researchers.  :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on January 22, 2008, 04:03:13 AM
Yes, it would be interesting to know, where the tiara comes from. I would rather guess that Princess Marie got it from the "greek" side through marriage, and did not inherit it by her fathers side. It is more than unlikely that the tiara worn by his great-granduncle Napoleon was passed to the line of Lucien, as they were not the official heirs, but the Princes Napoléon descending from Plon-Plon, nephew of Napoleon and son of Jerome Bonaparte (official heritage line until today= see house Bonaparte news) The Lucien family was only a line "beside" (mostly Princes of Canino descending from Charles-Lucien, Maries greatuncle, extinguished with Charles-Gregoire, the last male descendant of Charles-Lucien) never the heritage line, especially because Lucien had broken with his brother etc.


I found some new pictures of Princess Marie on getty, which have not been there before (I can't remember):

They are quite beautiful:

Marie with Freud and her son (on the very right: Pierre)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/56818109.jpg)


Marie and Freud (quite popular picture):

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/56818046.jpg)


Princess Marie and Prince Georg shortly after marriage, I think:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/77393823.jpg)


Some other lovely ones of her:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/77393820.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/77393824.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/77393816.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/77393806.jpg)


.....I wished, I would have known her!






Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on January 22, 2008, 04:11:37 AM
Maybe also interesting to anyone of you. On the net there is a very interesting genealogy page of the Blanc family, Maries ancestors through her mothers line. I found some interesting pictures of Blanc family members there (the creator of the page is very friendly)


Marie's mother as a child (this pictures was new to me!)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/MFelix.gif)


Marie's grandmother Marie Hensel:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/mh.gif)


Marie's great-grandfather Caspar (also named Gaspard) Hensel from Friedrichsdorf in Germany:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/Caspar.gif)



Marie's aunt Louise, Princess Radziwill, neé Blanc, second daughter of Marie and Francois Blanc:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/index-2.gif)



One cousin of Marie from the Blanc side: A son of Edmond Blanc, uncle of Marie (later the family name was changed to Edmond-Blanc as a complete family name:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/index-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on February 14, 2008, 05:03:41 PM
As a genealogist I like gto see endomarriage...just my personal like.

In my own ancestry there is quite a bit of intermarriage.  My maternal grandmother, for example, was the daughter of double first cousins.  BoyB married to GirlC, and GirlB married to BoyC.

On my father's side both his great-grandfather and great-great-grandfather married into the same family, both marrying girls who were first cousins to each other.  Thus, my faher's great-great-grandfather was married to a girl born in 1837, while their eldest son married his mother's first cousin who was born in 1860. Twenty three years separated the two girl first cousins, one becoming the mother-in-law of the other.

Put both examples in an ancestors' chart and it looks amazing!

Arturo Beéche

Off topic....
Lol, I have the same thing on my dad's side.

When I was in High School, during my second year, We (my science class ans I) had to do our  family trees. 

Mine, was ok, looked good on my Mom's side with a lot of cool Irish, Scottish, British, Swedish and German names, religions and so on were there from and etc , however, The other side, Italian Roman Catholics living in one small town in Italy, and cousins marrying cousins, sister in law marring brother, etc....looked more like a bush (I feel the Bourbon and the Hapsburgs' pain!).

back to topic..
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Nicolas, le Prince on April 01, 2008, 04:42:53 PM
Princess Marie Bonaparte, later officially known as Princess George of Greece and Denmark, is truly one of my favourite royals. She was an accomplished psychoanalist and had a career of her own.

With regard to her private life, she is known to have had liaisons with a number of men, most notably Freud's disciple, Rudolph Loewenstein.

At the time of her death she was one of the only two surviving daughters-in-law of King Konstantinos I and Queen Olga of the Hellenes, the other one being Princess Alice of Battenberg. She was cremated in Marseille and her ashes were 'interred' in Prince George's tomb at Tatoi, Greece.

Personally, I think the princess was very pretty, though not that beautiful. In any case, she has a very French air and a very nice smile.
I'm not sure, but she reportedly spoke French, German, English and a little bit of Greek.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: José on April 02, 2008, 10:42:55 AM
Are there any pictures of her son Peter and daughter-in-law Irina ?
I've only seen a couple of a young Peter in traditional clothes
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric VdV on April 03, 2008, 07:24:44 AM
Other jewelly:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/200699-72.jpg)


Marie at the court of her father- in- law:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/0701-1.jpg)


This tiara was on display during the wonderful exhibition "Brilliant Europe" in Brussels, which took place from 24 October 2007 until 17 February 2008.



The tiara is now in a private collection, courtesy Albion Art Jewellery Institute, Tokio, according to the magnificent coffeetable book catalogue.

According to the catalogue, the tiara has references to both the Bonapartes as to the Greek royal Family. This kind of tiara was popular during the years of 'belle époque' in her family of the first empire of Napoleon I and also a reason Princess Marie wore it low on her forehead, just like Empress Joséphine did.
In connection with the Greek royal Family, the shape of the olive leaf was a symbol of peace and properity and referred to the godess Athina, who protected the city.

This jewel was one of the pieces ordered for her marriage.

Eric VdV
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on April 05, 2008, 03:23:06 AM
Thank you for these detailled infos on the Tiara of Marie. I was never aware of these details, so that is very interesting! A pity that, when I click on the link the tiara or text isn't there anymore. Or maybe i did not look correctly?

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric VdV on April 05, 2008, 08:33:22 AM
Thank you for these detailled infos on the Tiara of Marie. I was never aware of these details, so that is very interesting! A pity that, when I click on the link the tiara or text isn't there anymore. Or maybe i did not look correctly?


Unfortunately, the picture of Princess Marie wasn't showed clicking on the link. It's only in the catalogue book.

Eric VdV
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: historylover on May 20, 2008, 06:43:23 AM
[
Uncles marrying nieces and aunts marrying nephews? Completely beyond the pale! I can't imagine anyone findiing that acceptable. If it took place it must have been centuries ago. First cousins are a different matter, though I'm a little squeamish there as well.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree, Bookworm!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: historylover on May 21, 2008, 07:22:45 AM
Sorry that I got a little OT last night.  I was only up to that part of the thread.  Now I've read it all.

Marie was certainly a very interesting person.  I was a bit surprised to learn about her frigidity because the author of
'Phillip and Elizabeth' calls her a nymphomaniac!  Maybe she took her attempts to recover too far...?

I'd love to see the film about her but it only seems to be available in French.  I can't find one with English sub-titles.

I'm also interested in reading the biography.

Best,
Lisa
www.bookaddiction.blogspot.com
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on May 27, 2008, 07:44:34 AM
I really would like to recommend you the book by Celia Bertin on her, it's definitely the best, if you are interested. It is so fascinating how she changed her life being in her fourties after having spent are very dark and loney childhood my many fears and psychiatric problems. It is a pity that there are still people, who want to tell superficially that she was "crazy". I do not think so at all, she was only a very sensitive person and suffered a lot that her mother died after having given birth to her. But one has to read that book onself, because I think her character is not to explain in afew sentences and is quite complex.
The film on her was nice. It was several times in french-German television Arte, but it was on German, not in french. I don't know, if there is a DVD with the film by the time. It might be that it is only in french...
About the question with her beauty I would say that she was indeed very beautiful in her young, even when she was always jealous of her cousin Jeanne, of whom she thought that she was more pretty than her. I think his was an inferiorty complex of her, because Jeanne was -objectively seen, so I would say- not more pretty at all. But it's indeed a face that Marie did not age too well, I would say. I have also read that in Bertins book, where there was a statement like "She rather looks as old as she is or older...". The pictures of a middle ages and older Marie show that through her pretty smile she did not age too well, which is indeed a pity, I would say.
And now concerning her frigidity and nymphomanity. To say what I think, it is my opinion that both phenomens do stand in connection with another, if you transfer them on Marie and her life.
It's a face that she was indeed suffering from frigidity during her whole life, and was never really "recovered" from that problem. Firstly she let make operations at her body to correct anatomic distances / ;D ::)), then later she took analyses with Freud. She learned to find out more about that problem and also about the background (psychoanalytical explanations for that problem etc), but she never recovered as far as I know. It was therefore some kind of consequence that she tried to "find" her sexual feelings (to say it concretely: Orgasm) by having different men, whom she thought could give her what she wanted, but fact she never found at the men what she wanted, was never satisfied. So she was indeed sexually very active, but did not feel what she should have felt as woman or wanted to feel...
That is what I think, and if you read the book, you'll understand all of that....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on May 27, 2008, 01:33:23 PM
Puh, I have read this text again and I have to apologize for all those horrible typing mistakes.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitryalex777 on June 29, 2008, 05:02:05 PM
Excuse me, but I have some questions concerning it.

Was the  marriage of Maria Bonaparte and her Greek prince recognized as morganatic?

Probably, her father could name himself as a prince, but he hadn't any drop of blue aristocratic blood. Her father, the grandfather and the great-grandfather were from simple country family and also married simple girls who were not aristocrats and even fine noblemen.

Probably, her great-grandfather was the brother of Napoleon, but himself Lucien Bonaparte was never married to a princess or the girl from aristocratic family. Lucien Bonaparte was twice married to very modest women who had no attitude to the nobility and aristocracy.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on June 30, 2008, 05:23:53 AM
Some of her noble ancestors were except Bonaparte and Ramolino(who were patricians and minor nobles in Italy) were Colonna d'Istria family(don't know if they are and how connected to THE Colonna family),Pozzo di Borgo family,Rochetta della Pieve family,Marquises Malaspina di Verrucola and through them Marie Bonaparte descended from d'Este family and through them from Louis I the ''Pius'' and Charles the "Bold"-Holy Roman Emperors,Antioch family-Kings of Jerusalim...Her ancestors were also Henry I of France and his wife Anna of Kiev and through Anna of Kiev she has also descended from Kings of Sweden and Denmark and many,many others...

I am not saying that she is to be considered not-morganatic,but just naming some of her more ''interesting'' ancestors which are also ancestors of Napoleon Buonaparte or Bonaparte,whatever version you like!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 30, 2008, 11:55:13 AM
The Bonapartes were are commoners but aristocrats. Empress Josephine while married to her first husband was once invited to Queen Marie Antoinette's circle. Carlo Bonaparte (Napoleon's father) was recognized as nobleman as representative of France in Corsica...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on June 30, 2008, 12:33:22 PM
Was the  marriage of Maria Bonaparte and her Greek prince recognized as morganatic?


I don't think Marie's marriage was recognized as morgantic.  She and her children were accorded full royal status within the Greek RF, and by the world as well.

She simply had too much money for it to matter....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 30, 2008, 12:37:31 PM
She was born a princess (abit a prevenu one). So if Mrs. Leeds can be a full royal princess, why can't she be ? 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on June 30, 2008, 01:23:14 PM
I personally think Marie was of sufficient rank to marry George equally.

However, her extreme wealth placed her in a separate category that really almost eclipsed status, making it a moot point.  Heiresses like Mrs. Leeds, Antonia Kohary, Edwina Ashley, and others were accepted for their fortunes.

I think George would have wed Marie even if her surname had been simply Blanc.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Yseult on June 30, 2008, 01:48:04 PM
Well, I like so much Marie Bonaparte and I suppose her marriage was "equal" and not a "morganatic one" because the recent hellenic dinasty wanted to see the match as "equal" and not as "morganatic". But, from my point of view, she has the same "royalty" running through her veins that I have...

Her father was a very "funny" prince, a son of a man (Pierre) whose father was born as a commoner (Lucien Bonaparte) and whose mother was also born as a commoner (Alexandrine Bleschamps), and also a son of a mother who was born as a commoner (Nina) with humble origins. And the mother, Marie Blanc, was also a daughter of a common people (a self-made man, a rich man, but a commoner, and his second wife, also comoner and with poor origins). Where is the royalty, if we think about it?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on June 30, 2008, 01:50:02 PM


I think George would have wed Marie even if her surname had been simply Blanc.

Sure thing :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitryalex777 on July 01, 2008, 05:10:57 PM
I wish to tell to you about one example from the life of the Russian imperial family.
There was Eugene de Beauharnais who was son of empress Josephine and adopted son of Napoleon I Bonaparte.
Also Eugene de Beauharnais was the Italian vice-king and married to Bavarian princess who was a daughter of Bavarian King.
Together Eugene de Beauharnais and his Bavarian wife had their son Maximilian. This guy has gone to Russia and has got acquainted with the Russian imperial family. In Russia Maximilian married to one of the daughters of Russian Tsar Nikolas I. Russian tsar was very favourable and benevolent in relation to Maximilian, therefore there was possible a marriage of this guy and grand princess Maria Nikolaevna.
Probably, it was possible because Maximilian was son of the Italian vice-king and a grandson of the Bavarian King and empress Josephine.
Probably, their marriage was equal.

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marie Bonaparte was no member of any royal family. Therefore, if she had met any Russian grand duc, their marriage wouldn't be possible. Their marriage would be recognized as morganatic. Their children wouldn't be members of Russian Imperial family and also would be deprived the rights to the Russian throne. Very rigid rules of the dynastic marriages of the members of the Russian Imperial Family were such.....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 01, 2008, 06:03:13 PM
The Greek RF was fairly new (and poor) when Marie and George married, and I'm sure her fortune made her an attractive, suitable bride for George.  George's family was willing to overlook her parvenu royal status, as they later did for Mrs. Leeds (who had no royal status whatsoever, just a big pile of money). 

I have to agree with you, Dmitryalex, I doubt that the Russians would have accepted Marie in a traditional marriage.  They were far too weathy and did not have to worry about providing lifelong incomes for younger sons


Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 01, 2008, 08:14:07 PM
Maybe not the Russian one, but also she would be accepted as afull royal had she married a Danish prince. Her contempory Marie of Orleans married Prince Waldermar of Denmark. As the Orleans were in exile too, they too have no status. Also remember Princess Mathilde Bonaparte was totally accepted as the Tsar's cousin and in fact helped her got out of amessy marriage.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 03, 2008, 12:47:41 AM
If you read the book by Celia Bertin there is no proof or even indication that the marriage was morganatic. It's true that Maries father Prince Roland, who was very fond of the empire stile and suffered from the fact that the line of Lucien Bonaparte always had some kind of "special status" among the other lines of the Bonaparte family, especially because his grandfather had married morgantically twice- like it was said here- and was also quite poor im comparison to the Princes Napoléon, who also partly had to finace the military career of Prince Roland, which his mother wanted, but Marie Bonaparte was highly respected by the greek people as far as one can read it in the book and in other sources. In case of a morganatic marriage, it would have been known, for the case if it was not accepted by the royal house or anything, and it wa definetely not like that: The wedding ceremony of both royals was celebrated for many hours, a standard royal marriage, not anything morganatic. Also the children Prince Peter and Princess Eugenie carried normal royal titles. However a morganatic marriage was that of Prince Pierre, which was very discussed and disliked by the parents, it seemed like a "read line" in the line of Lucien Bonaparte to marry morganatically, because Lucien Bonaparte was the only brother of the emperor, who resisted to the will of Napoleon. Therefore true is the fact that Marie had a lot of common ancestry, more than the line of the Princes Napoléon, who mixed themselves with many royals like Sachsen-Coburg, Habsburg, Savoy, Orléans etc, and Prince Roland seemed to suffer from that and hided it by his wealth (through his wife Marie-Felix) and old customs like speaking with his daughter formally etc. Despite of that, I'm very sure, at least in Greece that marriage was not morganatic at all, but considered as equal. Funny is that the greeks estimated Princess Marie eminently, because they believed in the old legend of the Duchess d' Abrantes, who told that the Bonapartes had a greek background...surely only a legend!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2008, 06:43:34 AM
Well,Bonaparte family did descend from most part of European royal families,even from the Capet dynasty(the one Napoleon fought against),but I can't find anything that they descended from the Greeks...The closest I could find is Marie's descedance from the King of Jerusalem...Here is the line from them:

Baudouin II du Bourg, King of Jerusalem reigned 1118-1131 
                               I
Alix de Jerusalem, Regent of Antioch born around 1110-died around 1136
                               I
Constance, Princess of Antioch,lived from 1127-1153
                               I
Alicia de Chatillon,Princess of Antioch,died in 1235
                               I
Margrave Azzo VII d'Este,lived from 1205-1264
                               I
                   Cubitosa d'Este
                               I
Gabriele Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola,died in 1289
                               I
Isnardo Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola
                               I
Niccolò Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola,died in 1416
                               I
                 Apollonia Malaspina
                               I
Giovanni Buonaparte,Nobile di Sarzana,died in 1501
                               I
Francesco "il Mauro" Buonaparte, Nobile di Sarzana,died around 1540
                               I
Nobile Gabriele Buonaparte,lived from 1485-1582
                               I
Nobile Geronimo Buonaparte,lived from 1520-1594
                               I
Nobile Francesco Buonaparte,lived from 1570-1633
                               I
Nobile Sebastiano Buonaparte,lived from 1603-1643
                               I
Nobile Carlo Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1637-1692
                               I
Nobile Giuseppe Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1663-1703
                               I
Nobile Sebastiano Nicola Buonaparte,lived from 1683-1720
                               I
Nobile Giuseppe Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1713-1763
                               I
Carlo Maria Buonaparte,Nobile di Toscana,lived from 1746-1785
                               I
Lucien Bonaparte,Prince di Canino and Musignano,lived from 1775-1840
                               I
Prince Pierre Napoleon Bonaparte,lived from 1815-1881
                               I
Roland,6th Prince di Canino e Musignano,lived from 1858-1924
                               I
PRINCESS MARIA LAETITIA BONAPARTE,later PRINCESS OF GREECE AND DENMARK,lived from 1882-1962












Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2008, 07:00:22 AM
And here is her line(and also Napoleon's) from the CAPET dynasty:


Hugues CAPET, King of France 987-996,lived from 940-996
                               I
Robert II 'le Pieux', King of France 996-1031,lived from 972-1031
                               I
Henri I, King of France 1031-1060,lived from 1008-1060
                               I
Philippe I, King of France 1060-1108,lived from 1052-1108
                               I
Princess Constance of France,lived from 1078-1125
                               I
Boemund II, Prince of Antioch 1110-1131,lived from 1107-1131
                               I
Constance, Princess of Antioch,lived from 1127-1153
                               I
Alicia de Chatillon,Princess of Antioch,died in 1235
                               I
Margrave Azzo VII d'Este,lived from 1205-1264
                               I
                   Cubitosa d'Este
                               I
Gabriele Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola,died in 1289
                               I
Isnardo Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola
                               I
Niccolò Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola,died in 1416
                               I
                 Apollonia Malaspina
                               I
Giovanni Buonaparte,Nobile di Sarzana,died in 1501
                               I
Francesco "il Mauro" Buonaparte, Nobile di Sarzana,died around 1540
                               I
Nobile Gabriele Buonaparte,lived from 1485-1582
                               I
Nobile Geronimo Buonaparte,lived from 1520-1594
                               I
Nobile Francesco Buonaparte,lived from 1570-1633
                               I
Nobile Sebastiano Buonaparte,lived from 1603-1643
                               I
Nobile Carlo Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1637-1692
                               I
Nobile Giuseppe Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1663-1703
                               I
Nobile Sebastiano Nicola Buonaparte,lived from 1683-1720
                               I
Nobile Giuseppe Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1713-1763
                               I
Carlo Maria Buonaparte,Nobile di Toscana,lived from 1746-1785
                               I
Lucien Bonaparte,Prince di Canino and Musignano,lived from 1775-1840
                               I
Prince Pierre Napoleon Bonaparte,lived from 1815-1881
                               I
Roland,6th Prince di Canino e Musignano,lived from 1858-1924
                               I
PRINCESS MARIA LAETITIA BONAPARTE,later PRINCESS OF GREECE AND DENMARK,lived from 1882-1962


Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2008, 07:02:02 AM
Sorry for those lines but I find them interesting,because most belive that Bonaparte family doesn't have any noble ancestry...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 03, 2008, 08:16:24 AM
Carlo Maria Buonaparte,Nobile di Toscana,lived from 1746-1785
                               I
Lucien Bonaparte,Prince di Canino and Musignano,lived from 1775-1840
                               I
Prince Pierre Napoleon Bonaparte,lived from 1815-1881
                               I
Roland,6th Prince di Canino e Musignano,lived from 1858-1924
                               I
PRINCESS MARIA LAETITIA BONAPARTE,later PRINCESS OF GREECE AND DENMARK,lived from 1882-1962



After Prince Roland's death, whom did the "Prince of Canino" title pass to, or did it become extinct?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 03, 2008, 09:29:22 AM
At first to Marc....what a wonderful work! Those lines of descendance are GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How did you find it??????

I have been concerned with the Bonapartes for such a long time, but I never achieved to lead them back sooo far.
I only found all the ancestry until the middle ages, where the name Bonaparte was given to Napoleons ancestors as a sign of honour for having voted the "right party" during civil wars in Tuscany. I really didn't know that they descend from Hugues Capet!!!! Is this really a secure source? If yes, that's great, so they have partly really the same ancestry as the Bourbons...great! Even the descendance from the kings of Jerusalem was completely new to me....fascinating! Thank you...can you tell me, how you find it? I even didn't find it in any of my books.

Concerning the statement with the greek ancestry of the Bonapartes, it is a only legend, which was founded by the Duchess d'Abrantès, who was a famous chronist of the napoleonic time. It can be quoted as following:

"In the year 1670 the people from Genoa, after they had been banished by the turks out of Greece, brought christian hellenes with them to
 Corsica, which belonged to them since the end of the 18th century. They shall have settled in the region of Cargèse and Ajaccio. The chief of that clan had the name Constantin Comnène, one of his sons was named "Calomeros", which can be translated with "Bella parte" or Buona Parte
"

For historians it's evident that this is a pure legend. It seems in the napoleonic time one tried to "create" greek ancestry for Napoleon, as many famous people and heros were of greek origin, as well as all the myths with half-gods etc, it would have been more fascinating to integrate the emperor somewhere there than simply to acknowlegde his italian/corsican background.

The book also says concretely that this stands in a total contradiction to the papers of Carlo Maria Bonaparte, which he got by the Archbishop of Pisa in 1769, and were he was appointed to a noble man and patrician.

However it seems that especially the greeks believed in that story, and in Celia Bertin it is described that, when Princess Marie came to Greece as new wife of Prince Georg, the greeks cheered and swang banderoles, where the name Bonaparte was to read in greek:"Kalomeri"...The people still believed in that and for Marie is was a nice phantasy to play with as fresh wife of a greek Prince....

And now to the Princes of Canino. I'm unsure, if Roland was Prince of Canino. The first Prince of Canino was Lucien, brother of Napoleon, then the title was given to his eldest son Charles- Lucien, but I'm not sure, if Roland got it as well. In my books this is not clearly said. I think it was always passed to the oldest son. I always read that the last Prince of Canino was Napoléon-Charles-Gregoire (1839-1999), married to Christine Ruspoli, who had two daughters (Marie/Marie and Eugenie).  He was a cousin of Prince Roland, who was son of the younger son of Lucien B., Pierre-Napoleón. The Princes of Canino, so I thought, totally extinguished with the death of Napoléon-Charles-Greg., who only had daughters, and no sons, whom he could have passed the title to. I have never heard that it was passed to descendants of the younger son of Lucien, like those of Pierre-Napoléon. Does anyone know it for sure???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2008, 03:29:01 PM
Don't know why but Roland declined that title of Canino and Musignano...I trased Bonaparte line combining two genealogy sites genealogics.org and the one of Miroslav Marek(don't know the exact adress but if you google it you will find it for sure)!!!I find it also interesting,but if you have just one noble ancestor,than there is a chance of finding more...like Tatiana Blatnik(girlfriend of Prince Nikolaos of Greece) has descended from Erszebeth Bathory(bloody countess)...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitryalex777 on July 03, 2008, 04:59:49 PM
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Bonaparte

Quote
On the death of his cousin Prince Napoléon Charles Bonaparte he succeeded him as the 6th Prince of Canino and Musignano but he did not assume the title. With Prince Roland's death in Paris the senior line of the House of Bonaparte descending from Lucien Bonaparte became extinct in the male line.

Prince Roland was married in Paris on November 18, 1880 to Marie Blanc (1859-1882). They had one daughter.



Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 04, 2008, 12:46:47 AM
Thanks for the link. So it seems Prince Roland indeed succeded as Prince of Canino. I did not know, that there is an Wiki article on Roland, it seems to be quite new, because some time ago it was not there. Even when Wiki is not always the best source it seems, it can be or is right here, I think. Strange is that in other sources I always read that Charles-Gregoire was the last carrier of that title.

Thanks Marc, too. The genealogy site must be fascinating, I never traced back families that far, it's great.  I know a German historian, who is working at a genealogical book on the Bonapartes, I wonder, if his work will correspond with this. A pity that the book is still not available....we'll see...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 04, 2008, 01:40:47 AM
They do have a long history too. not too much was written about the Luicen branch of the Bonapartes... :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 04, 2008, 08:53:05 AM
I think the best info about that branch of the family is in the book by Celia Bertin. The lives of Lucien, Pierre and Roland as well as of the Blancs are described well. I also do have a biography on Lucien, but about the side of the Princes of Canino there is not tto much to find. The wesbite of the Palazzo Primoli carries wonderful photos of them made by Joseph Napoleon Primoli, grandson of Charles-Lucien Bonaparte, if anyone is interested. All the children of Lucien Bonaparte were very intelligent, almost all being scientists with different interesting careers...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 05, 2008, 11:02:47 AM
I agree that book is the best source...the only in English I guess.  :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 05, 2008, 03:42:05 PM
I have it in German and I'm happy about, because I don't understand french.... ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2008, 12:02:46 AM
The same book you mean ? Or another book on Marie ?  ???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 06, 2008, 12:59:13 AM
No, I mean the book of Celia Bertin, no other book. I never found other good literature about Marie. Only her works on Edgar Poe or Topsy or others like that, which are to get in new editions...Sometimes there are also articles in dictionaries on the psychoanalysis, but they are not too profound and tell only a little on Maries personal life etc. Only Bertin covers the topic fully.
I firstly began to interest myself for this book and this topic, after I had taken part in an evening presentation, in the near of my hometown (and also in the near of the home of Marie Hensel). It was a french woman, who lived here in Germany, who presented it, and told that she had bought the Bertin book in the eightees at her home in Paris. So I thought that there would be hardly a possibility to get it, but was very surprised when I noticed that it is to buy easily and was also in the library of my university-in German! At once a got and read it then by myself, and noticed that the lady, who had presented it, and who had said many things and facts out of her memory, did some mistakes....(She also told: "There are no photos of her, she never wanted herself be be photographed!") Later I noticed that it was indeed not true, because there are not little photos on Marie, also when she was younger. It is indeed true that she had complexes concerning her look and considered herself as not very beautiful in comparison to her cousin Jeanne (What I think is not true) but there are losts of pictures....The lady also told some other things wrong that Marie was dressed very ugly as a child and that she later when already being a psychoanalyist escaped from an exhibitionist,whom she had to cure. In the book it is written differently: that Marie as a child had escaped from a such a person, and later when she met a well-kown exhibitionist again, she offered him a therapy, but he never came....There were other things like that... :o
However, important is that she was the first, who had inpired me concerning Princess Marie. I don't think that there are comparable books on her...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2008, 10:33:58 AM
Indeed...I got the English version. The definitive book on Marie Bonaparte.  :D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 06, 2008, 11:27:00 AM
Did you read those anecdotes on Marie like the one with the exhibitionist? There are also others like this... ;D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2008, 07:54:41 PM
Not really...But she did had an eventful life.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 07, 2008, 04:20:54 AM
There were quite strange things about her, very unsual for that time and for her standard. But I don't know, if it it right to present it here, if children look ;D ;D

For example she shall have escaped from an important royal wedding only to make a presentation about female sexuality somwhere else. She also broke limits by speaking openly about things like frigidity (her main problem as we know) and masturbation (see her conversation with Ruth Mack), which was quite unusual for that time (She indeed "did it" herself, I think it was the only way for her to feel what she could not feel together with a man...). She also tried to come over her frigidity by changing her lovers very often and certain operations in the genital zone (It was never successful and she always remained frigid, and suffered until the end of her life a lot from it)
There was one more funny story about her: Marie was present at a hospital and was introduced to a client, who suffered of a phopia of soap, by a doctor. princess Marie made a very doubful diagnosis and stated that the reason for the soap-phobia was an initial wish by the client to fondle his father's testicles. The doctor was filled with indignation when he heard this and turned read saying: "My daughters would never have such a desire!"
Marie was offened because of those critics and ran away from the doctor, who called after her:" Well...you can't behave like this now..."

It only shows that Marie really was a very special and unique personality, on the one hand she had never fallen apart from the royal house and tasks, on the other hand she broke so many limits, which really were totally unsual for that time, where something feminism etc. had not existed yet.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 07, 2008, 10:49:28 AM
Indeed...Marie was ahead in her times. I wonder if she ever met Infanta Eulalie, another progressive royal (first to talk about woman's lib and right to divorce with dignity).  :D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 07, 2008, 01:27:04 PM
I should have a look into the book again to find out, if she might have known her, she had indeed many royal contacts and also wrote about this in her memories, also how they looked like etc, but I can't remember the one you mentioned....I will look. It's years ago that I read that book.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitryalex777 on July 07, 2008, 05:34:38 PM
Really Marie Bonaprate had many lovers and did adulter with them?

Her Greek husband probably suffered because of it very much?

Was he a cuckold?

Is it really or I understood it absolutely incorrectly?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 07, 2008, 09:37:36 PM
 I really think that Greek Georgie wouldn't mind if Marie had a lover...He was too busy travelling with his "beloved" uncle, Prince Vlademar of Denmark.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 08, 2008, 03:11:52 AM
Really Marie Bonaprate had many lovers and did adulter with them?

Her Greek husband probably suffered because of it very much?

Was he a cuckold?

Is it really or I understood it absolutely incorrectly?


I don't think that he suffered, if you look at his relation and affection to Waldemar...And yes, maybe it's a bit over-exaggerated, but Marie tried to find her sexual deliverance and had some lovers, but remained absolultely a classy woman.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 14, 2008, 01:54:01 AM
It's a strategy of Dmitry those questions...that's it, with the time everyone on the board will notice it...sorry to say so.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Relatively X on August 04, 2008, 12:28:10 PM
Maria was a very depressed child, and a depressed young woman.  She had thought she had found a joy and the opportunity to cultivate and feel love from Dr. Sigmund Freud, but he was so overwhelmed with the "cause and affect" of his cure-all drug experiments.

I really can understand with the loneliness, which she grew to be accustomed, until she met, "Mr. X".  For those of you who are not familiar, I'm not talking about a fictitious illustration.  I'm highlighting that Maria finally found the taste of Love for her own personal void, in Mr. X.


Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 04, 2008, 12:33:35 PM
Well...At leasr Marie did not end up in a nut house like sister-in-law Alice, Princess Andrew of Greece. I wonder if she chart her progress...?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on August 05, 2008, 02:27:14 AM
Maria was a very depressed child, and a depressed young woman.  She had thought she had found a joy and the opportunity to cultivate and feel love from Dr. Sigmund Freud, but he was so overwhelmed with the "cause and affect" of his cure-all drug experiments.

I really can understand with the loneliness, which she grew to be accustomed, until she met, "Mr. X".  For those of you who are not familiar, I'm not talking about a fictitious illustration.  I'm highlighting that Maria finally found the taste of Love for her own personal void, in Mr. X.





Yes, the Mr. X also appears in the book by Celia Bertin, it's a long time ago I read the book, but do you think Mr. X is fiction? The book says that he was a doctor and lover of Marie Bonaparte, of whom the name was never published. Marie wrote about him in her writings/diaries etc, but did not tell the name. Or am I naive? Maybe I once did not understand it correctly and he was a fictional person, where she found what she was looked for. In fact she never found at any man what she really needed, so it it known. I think she could also feel what she wanted, when she "did it herself"...strange, but true. She also had several problems with Mr. X, who was described as much younger than Marie, so I don't think he was a fiction, because she even had certain problems and misunderstanding and an up and down with him, Mr. X.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 05, 2008, 01:11:02 PM
Maybe just a fasination ? Marie can be quite creative.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on September 23, 2008, 02:25:41 AM
I have to read that part of the book once more, but when I read it some years ago I was quite sure that Mr. X indeed existed. I was said that she spent beautiful hours with him side at side (intimate hours) and that he was a doctor.
As we know Marie enjoyed the society of doctors, in earlier times she had wanted to become a doctor herself, a dream, which wasn't possible because of her extraordinary status.
When I looked a bit through the book on Marie and did a bit reseach again I found an aspect quite interesting: That Marie already with seven years started to write her thoughts into diaries (she used different exercise books with a "depressing black cover") and did not write in French, but in English and it German, even when she was not without mistakes.
Marie, who never felt well in her environment and was often very unhappy saw a possibility to get a distance from the world with her tyrannic grandmother in which she was "locked", and not less she found a chance to write down every conflict, difficult situation and problem, which she could not discuss in the family (in that kind of society it was never possible) and which caused her sorrow as her child.
Not unlike much later her (much younger ;D) jewish contemporary :) she wrote in her book "In this book I put all the things that can consolate me"...and used nine exclamation marks after that, very unsual (and wrote "thinks" instead of "things", something like a freudian mistake :))
Marie later forgot about those books, but found them one day, when looking through the things of her father, and let them analyse. She called them exercise books with "stupidness", published them, and found an analytical way to interprete those fears and thoughts in that books, which for a person without any knowledge in psychoanalysis might often seem without connection. She saw more and more certain symbols and their meaning and traced back those stories and phantasies/memories to the so called original scene (sexual scenes). She found the explanation that she was more interested in sexuality as child as she could not live like other children and was taken away by her grandmother from usual child plays and games etc and was f.i. not allowed to see other kids nacked etc.
By the way all this was a quite interesting aspect for me, especially because was already so little at that time, when she began with those writings.  There are two examples of her writings in the book. An interesting talent and work of a very young child!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on September 23, 2008, 02:37:56 AM
Little Marie, around the time, when she began with her "diaries":


(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/Mariechild.jpg)


Thanks to @Bejamin!!!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on September 24, 2008, 02:25:10 AM
Unfortunately this picture was not in my volume of the book by Celia Bertin, @Benjamin has another one (in English of course) and there this picture was in, and I was very surprised. It stands under the picture that it was made by Roland Bonaparte, her father, who is well known as great photgrapher of his time...
I think it's so see that Mimi has a certain melancholic face (so in my opinion)
The stories, which she wrote in her diaries, are very sad.
Marie later wrote "real" diaries again and told it is that she had forgotten about those old texts "The phantastic, absurd, and bizarre content irritates me" she wrote. Freud helped her to understand those things...!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 24, 2008, 11:33:12 AM
It is scary for one to revisit their past...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on October 10, 2008, 06:10:51 AM
Yes, her childhood must have been very unhappy, those verses she wrote in her diary as little girl really show a desperate child, who felt totally misunderstood and alone with her thoughts. What a luckyness that she later became such a proper lady. She was irritated about those things even by herself, when she one day found those diaries with " the black depressing cover" again and got a chance to understand them though Freud. There is are lot of dark sexuality thoughts in it as well, but the book by Bertin only shows a little part of those early childhood writing of Marie. I think it would also be interesting to see the others as well, but I fear I would not understand it. A did a beginner psychoanalysis lesson in the university last year, but this is not enough I suppose, I don't have any experience...and only once -some years ago- I looked into the book "Myths of War", which  Princess Marie published in 1947 and which is interpreting antisemitism and holocaust from a a pychoanalytical view (after the lesson at the university it was the first time for me to understand at least a bit what I read a lot of years ago, as it is connected with the "Urtrieb" (english word?????)) and it was more than hard for the to understand the meaning before...she wrote very difficultly and quotes hundreds of other texts and books, which she had read but not me :D)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on October 11, 2008, 11:25:28 AM
Here some pictures of older Marie. For me they are new, they are from an austrian photoarchive....

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/MarieV.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/MarieIV.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/MarieIII-1.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/oldMarie.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/GrennderungEYEGA_00375127.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/MarieEugenie.jpg)

The second last shows Marie some months before her death. There she was still so active, even when having some illnesses because of her age, like heart problems etc. She still wanted to learn Russian some weeks before her death and was still writing in hospital before she died. A pity that she got leucemia in the same year, which brought her to grave (Too many cancer patients among the Bonapartes... :'()
It seems (so from the pics) she became also a bit crooked in her age, which lets her seem smaller than she actually was. Interesting is that she was quite tall for a lady of her time. She must have been about 1,74 m, because at 14 she was already 1,72 m, so I have read.
Also her father Roland was considered as a "giant" for his time, it's funny that especially of the later Bonapartes many are extremely tall... :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on October 11, 2008, 11:32:47 AM
Before I forget it...thanks to @Benjamin for mentioning this photo- page!!!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 11, 2008, 01:38:57 PM
Great pictures ! I am stunned !  :o
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on October 12, 2008, 02:54:04 AM
Yes, they are rare, I have not seen them before. I think it's because it's an austrian archive, and many psychoanalytical things took place in Vienna, as it was Freud's home, so...I only wished some of the picture could be bigger and were without the water mark!
Glad, you enjoyed them...!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on October 12, 2008, 03:14:24 AM
It wa also interesting to see that she sits and works togehter with only men beside her (see second pic) Really unusual and rare that a lady- and then a lady from her society- worked with psychoanalytical things, which was a "jewish" and rather a men's  work. Nevertheless she always stayed "royal" and followed her royal "tasks". She's simply unique!!!

If you now compare the older Marie to granddaughter Tatiana, especially in profile, they are very similar. It's fascinating.
I have to tell, I have once written to her to ask if she might answer some questions on her grandmother or could help along with some memories for my work on Marie, but no answer. A pity. Her brother Carlo Alessandro was much more helpful, and I am still so happy that I once had the chance to phone him.  :)



Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2008, 04:13:23 PM
Tatiana looked like a carbon copy of Princess Eugenie...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on October 16, 2008, 10:32:01 AM
Yes, she's similar to her mother, but in profile I see a lot of grandmother Marie in her, but the eyes are rather from the "greek" side...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on October 16, 2008, 10:32:51 AM
Upps, you said "looked"...but Tatiana is still alive, isn't she????
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 16, 2008, 11:29:33 AM
I don't know if she changed her look. For example Princess Margaret was praised in her youth for her Stuart Charm and good looks, in old age they said her looks were more Hanoverian like George III...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Luc on November 30, 2008, 09:10:47 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/GandM2.jpg)

On what occasion were these stunning photos taken ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on November 30, 2008, 10:00:20 PM
Don't know,I even forgot about this picture...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Luc on December 01, 2008, 10:19:40 AM
It could have been a marriage before 1957...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Leuchtenberg on December 02, 2008, 09:44:38 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/GandM2.jpg)

On what occasion were these stunning photos taken ?

This photo has been "reversed" as you can tell due to the ribands appearing over the left shoulders when they should be on the right.  Prince George is wearing the GCVO, so the event would have been in Britain...likely having to do with the Coronation of Elizabeth II.  However, I don't believe it was the actual Coronation Day itself as Marie wore a different dress.

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Luc on December 02, 2008, 12:17:18 PM


On what occasion were these stunning photos taken ?

This photo has been "reversed" as you can tell due to the ribands appearing over the left shoulders when they should be on the right.  Prince George is wearing the GCVO, so the event would have been in Britain...likely having to do with the Coronation of Elizabeth II.  However, I don't believe it was the actual Coronation Day itself as Marie wore a different dress.



Thank you Leuchtenberg for your reaction. Do you have photos of Marie and George on the coronation day itself ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Luc on December 07, 2008, 01:03:22 PM
It could also have been on the occasion of the marriage of Queen Elizabeth in 1947.. Prince and Princess George and Eugenie are listed on this seating plan:

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/microsites/royalwedding1947/object.asp?grouping=&exhibs=CEREMONY&object=9000361&row=3&detail=magnify
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on December 07, 2008, 06:05:13 PM
If I remember well,it was a photo from someone's wedding...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Svetabel on December 13, 2008, 04:41:15 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/GandM2.jpg)

On what occasion were these stunning photos taken ?

That's a christening of their grandson Thurn and Taxis, son of Princess Eugenie from her second husband.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Jose II on December 14, 2008, 01:28:50 PM

That's a christening of their grandson Thurn and Taxis, son of Princess Eugenie from her second husband.


When was Karl-Alexander christened ?

There is a group of photos from the same occasion.

I have them listed as at Elizabeth II coronation, but ... in one of them Eugenia is holding her son and he is no longer a baby, should be at least 2 years old.

Her husband Raimundo is wearing a cloak that looks like from the Sovereign Militar Order of Malta.

One would not expect that the infant would have gone to the coronation, but OTOH the photos could have been taken on other occasion.

Were Eugenia and Raimundo invited for the Queen's coronation ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 15, 2008, 10:24:26 AM
I don't think I see them there in the lineup of guests...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 15, 2008, 01:41:41 PM
Maybe you are right, because from the same collection there is pic with Eugenie and her little son looking out of a buggy and one with Eugenie with little Carlo Alessandro as well as one with little Carlo A. and grandpa Georg....I never forget the conversation with the very very gentle Prince della Torre e Tasso. Very simple and sooo kind person, only too busy, must finally visit the castle once...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 15, 2008, 01:44:22 PM
Well, yes, I didn't see the other answer sorry, yes, I think, the boy is around two years old on that pic. It seems he was christened quite late....Marie is famous for not having had a good relationship to the church, but maybe this does not stand in any connection with the late christing of the grandson....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 15, 2008, 01:52:15 PM
I think Marie was more of a free spirit herself in these matters.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 16, 2008, 02:04:29 AM
I recall from the book  by Bertin that she was rather critical towards the church, which caused some problems at the beginning, when he married George. I seem to remember it. In her work "Myths of War" published in 1997 (I only read a very little part of it) she even makes comparisons of the Holocaust to religious murders (or genozids) of earlier (old) times, she intrepretes all this from her psychoanalytical view (key word: human basic instincs, theory by Freud), historians would surely say that is very problematic...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 16, 2008, 06:55:24 AM
There are two mistakes in the message sorry: First: "When she married Prince Georg" of course
and surely the year of publishing "Myths of War" was indeed 1947!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 16, 2008, 08:28:40 AM
Indeed...I do wonder what Marie's relationship with her son Peter, after he became the "black sheep" of the family.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 17, 2008, 12:31:10 PM
I don't know it, but throughout the whole book it seems that for Marie her psychoanalysis was the most important thing in life, her children came after....in the movie on Marie I remember a special scene, where Marie and Peter discussed about that morganatic marriage and Marie was not very happy and expressed this clearly, she also said that Peter seemed to repeat the mistake of so many descendants of Lucien Bonaparte: to marry a wife of a wrong "standard", he really seemed to be typical like his ancestor Lucien Bonaparte in that point: For him love to his wives was the most important thing, even more important than getting a "land" by his brother Napoleon! - Like the other brothers did!...It's funny that Marie seemed to disagree so much with that marriage of Peter, because one should not forget that she was for herself a product of a couple of those kinds of marriages...In general I often think of Peter, did he really not have children? And which kind of life did he lead? There is so little known, but I have heard that he was a biologist/anthropologist or something like that similar to his grandfather Roland!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 17, 2008, 02:10:06 PM
Yes...I agree Marie is "being Royal" here. She was so forward in other aspects in her life that it really baffles when one sees such instances.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 23, 2008, 05:29:30 AM
Hi!

I ve found two curious pics of Maria ( i dont know if they have been posted here. Sorry if they re repeated!)

The first one...

Maria looking with fascionation her hubby, and this one...cold and rigid looking at the cam

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/Marie.jpg)


And this one is uber weird!!. Valdi and George, side by side, holding arms and their wifes  sit in the opposite sides of their husbands!, showing the atypical family they were

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/ValdemarMarieGoggieandMarie.jpg)

(Sorry about my spelling :-( )
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 23, 2008, 10:17:53 AM
Wow! Great pics!!!!!!!!!!
Where did you get them? From any book? I know in the different volumes of Célia Bertins book there are often different pics, too, but I really never saw these here! Do you own another special and good book on the subjects? Please tell us, if yes :)
Oh dear, the one with Waldemar is really weird!!! I have seen one before, where Waldemar is standing next to George and Marie was sitting, but this one....! Was this an official photograph?? Wouldn't it be impossible???? Did it not make any scandal? Huch!
One can be lucky that Marie was so much in her own world of work and psychoanalysis, if she had been more devoted to her husband, I think she would have suffered a lot!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 23, 2008, 10:45:56 AM
I got an even more intimate one in my book..."Royal Images". I spot the photo at Windsor Castle and used it in my book. I believe that they were an item...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 23, 2008, 02:54:31 PM
Really? That sounds great! So you found yours at Windsor Castle? Is it also with Marie on it?
I suppose you can't post it here, because you're using it for your book... :-\
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 23, 2008, 06:32:26 PM
I don't have it with me nowin Panama . I can sent you a copy of the book later. It is a photo of George has an arm on his uncle, while he was reading his newspaper. I was shocked when I saw it. It is as if the photographer came into the room unanounced...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: dmitryalex777 on December 25, 2008, 12:12:56 AM
Quote
where Marie and Peter discussed about that morganatic marriage and Marie was not very happy and expressed this clearly, she also said that Peter seemed to repeat the mistake of so many descendants of Lucien Bonaparte: to marry a wife of a wrong "standard", he really seemed to be typical like his ancestor Lucien Bonaparte in that point: For him love to his wives was the most important thing, even more important than getting a "land" by his brother Napoleon!

Marie Bonaparte herself isn't from a royal family. I think that her and George marriage was morganatic
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on December 25, 2008, 05:01:21 AM
Well.in terms of royal blood this is true,but in terms of form not because the Greek royal family treated the marriage as equal,so...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 26, 2008, 10:12:29 AM
Yes. But the Greeks gave her the full title because of the Bonaparte name & Blanc money. Just like Alice Leeds...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on December 27, 2008, 04:31:53 AM
Well,at least they included her name which is not the case with Mrs. Leeds...Maybe not so royal and equal Marie was after all Princess in her own right before the marriage,so I think that the ''form'' was satisfied...of course when money included!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 27, 2008, 08:29:30 AM



And this one is uber weird!!. Valdi and George, side by side, holding arms and their wifes  sit in the opposite sides of their husbands!, showing the atypical family they were

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/ValdemarMarieGoggieandMarie.jpg)

 


I found another picture of Valdi holding arms with Georgie..

(http://i43.tinypic.com/25jv53r.jpg)

They liked to do that ;-)!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on December 27, 2008, 10:56:29 AM
Was he already married there? I looks like as if Georg was still very young and maybe it was before the marriage with Marie?
Does anyone know the date?
Thank you for posting!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Luc on December 27, 2008, 12:57:14 PM
Was he already married there? I looks like as if Georg was still very young and maybe it was before the marriage with Marie?
Does anyone know the date?
Thank you for posting!

The photo is reproduced in the book The Camera and the Tsars by Charlotte Zeepvat. The photo was taken in 1884, before Valdemars marriage. George was 15 by then.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 27, 2008, 01:08:59 PM
Vladimir first took the hand of his beloved nephew when he was a little boy. Marie was right to resent the relationship, but it was so long standing...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 27, 2008, 05:51:16 PM
I wonder how Olga handled it, your brother in "love" with your son. Something is wrong with that. It would bother me if was Olga.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2008, 11:33:59 AM
You mean brother-in-law right ? I think Queen Olga just treat it as friendship and leave it at that. Her own brother Grand Duke Constantine was gay and visited bath houses in Russia. I much doubt he would come out to his sister.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 28, 2008, 05:49:16 PM
Oh, yes, Brother-in-law.

I see.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 29, 2008, 05:01:17 PM
A beautiful picture of Marie

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/MarieBonap.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on January 05, 2009, 02:34:11 PM
I already know this lovely picture from photos12 and it is great, but how did you get this without watermark???
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 05, 2009, 06:44:46 PM
i found it in photobucket ;-)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 17, 2009, 09:34:47 AM
Marie B and children:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Marie%20Bonaparte/MarieBonaparteetenfants1.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Marie%20Bonaparte/MarieBonaparteandchildrengreat1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2009, 04:08:53 PM
Charming photos of Marie & her kids. I wonder if there is one of Marie & Peter after he was married...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 19, 2009, 02:25:56 AM
Marie and George:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Marie%20Bonaparte/Mariewedding1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 19, 2009, 11:48:12 AM
Sorry if these are repeated!

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/B741_Marie_Bonaparte_visuel_retouch.jpg)

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/documentphpidzbk0510473b.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 20, 2009, 02:13:42 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Marie%20Bonaparte/MariaB1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 20, 2009, 09:16:15 AM
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/Bonaparte.jpg)

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/2349774134_d3a549550a_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 20, 2009, 09:24:56 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Marie%20Bonaparte/MarieBonapartethinkingthinking1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on February 25, 2009, 09:34:08 PM
George & Marie

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/russia/104271.jpg)

Until today, this was the only photo I had of their wedding--and it wasn't even mine, just a blurry saved image. Tonight I received an old French magazine that contained 4 photos of their wedding, including showing Queen Olga and Crown Princess Sophie there! I'm just so excited! God Bless the internet.  :) ;) Marie's dress looks different in a clear, non-washed out image. It actually had a higher neckline than what appears (at least to me) in the photo I posted. I have a written description saved from an old (English) newspaper so I'll try and post that later--that's the one downside of my purchase, I don't speak/read French!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 25, 2009, 09:44:58 PM
Thats a great one!! And as always..Georgie looking  upset
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Luc on February 26, 2009, 04:57:25 AM
George & Marie


Until today, this was the only photo I had of their wedding--and it wasn't even mine, just a blurry saved image. Tonight I received an old French magazine that contained 4 photos of their wedding, including showing Queen Olga and Crown Princess Sophie there! I'm just so excited! God Bless the internet.  :) ;) Marie's dress looks different in a clear, non-washed out image. It actually had a higher neckline than what appears (at least to me) in the photo I posted. I have a written description saved from an old (English) newspaper so I'll try and post that later--that's the one downside of my purchase, I don't speak/read French!

A wonderful discovery GDella ! This must be a rare image  ;) I'm happy a photo of their marriage is found  8)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 26, 2009, 05:49:24 PM
I think that photo wasin Celia Bertin's book as well.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on February 26, 2009, 07:51:09 PM
It is. It a lovely photo. Marie looks happy, George....well not so.

I have a feeling that Marie and George didn't love their daughter Eugenie at all! and favored Peter. sad.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2009, 11:14:24 AM
Peter appeared to be handsome but spoiled...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on March 10, 2009, 04:13:32 AM
I think that photo wasin Celia Bertin's book as well.

In my book it is indeed there- at least very similar, but the images, which were lately mentioned here, would interest me a lot as well....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2009, 11:36:03 AM
Yes. Marie was a very active lady in public so more photos of her would be likely to be found.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on March 10, 2009, 01:38:59 PM
Strange is that when I first heard of Marie, I supposed that there are no photographs of her at all!

There was a french lady making a presentation, where I firstly heard about her- many years ago-  and there she stated: Marie was never photographed, as she didn't like to be photographed....strange!  ::)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on March 10, 2009, 03:12:15 PM
Peter appeared to be handsome but spoiled...

Yes, Peter does seem to have been the favorite child of Princess Marie and not in a very healthy way.
Princess Marie was not your average Princess by any standards!

GDss Olga Alexandrovna once wrote that she was "awfully French".
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Bourgogne on March 10, 2009, 04:52:52 PM
Strange is that when I first heard of Marie, I supposed that there are no photographs of her at all!

There was a french lady making a presentation, where I firstly heard about her- many years ago-  and there she stated: Marie was never photographed, as she didn't like to be photographed....strange!  ::)

I've got this wonderful pic. It was published in the french newspaper "L'Illustration" of the 7 september 1907, for the annoncement of the engagement (which was made the 31 august). The newspaper sent his photograph Paul Boyer for an interview. The picture was made in a little salon of the townhouse of Marie's father, prince Roland Bonaparte, in Paris.
There is also in this newpaper a very interesting article about the fiancés, with dithyrambic description of George's and Marie's physical apparence...  "Paris has very seldom seen such a beautiful couple..."


Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2009, 07:46:06 PM
I wonder if Marie's wedding dress still survived. So little clothes of the Greek Royal family survived...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on March 14, 2010, 04:44:18 PM
Hopefully some of these pictures are new!

Young George
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/littlegeorge.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/younggeorg.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georgeofgr-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on March 14, 2010, 04:49:27 PM
With brothers, Constantine and Nicholas.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georgnichokonst.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/prinsgeorgg.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georgedegr-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on March 14, 2010, 08:03:49 PM
Princess Marie
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/marieBdegr.jpg)

Prince George by his desk at his home in Denmark
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georgedesk.jpg)

The couples Paris home
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/parishomeGeorgedeGr.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2010, 03:08:54 PM
How many homes does the couple had ? Is George's Danish home still standing ? What is the Paris address of their residence. Love to stoll by the next time to Paris.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on March 15, 2010, 05:58:54 PM
How many homes does the couple had ? Is George's Danish home still standing ? What is the Paris address of their residence. Love to stoll by the next time to Paris.

I'm not sure, but I'm aware of four houses that belonged to the couple. Their mansion in Athens, the mansion in Paris, and two homes in Denmark.
Yes, his Danish home is still standing, and is called Little Bernstorff. About his Paris home, all I know is the street name was Rue Adolphe Yvon.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2010, 06:34:43 PM
Thanks Kmerov ! Appreciate it very much.

The book on Marie by Celia Bertin did not mention in detail the couple's homes and its addresses. :-)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on March 15, 2010, 07:01:32 PM
You welcome.
I found a picture of Prince Georg's summer house in Denmark, Gurrehus. He bought the house in 1914, and made several alterations to it.
http://www.helsingorleksikon.dk/images/0/06/Gurrehus260509leksikon.jpg (http://www.helsingorleksikon.dk/images/0/06/Gurrehus260509leksikon.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on March 15, 2010, 08:15:00 PM
It seems they,or rather Marie were very rich compared with other Greek royals...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on March 15, 2010, 08:42:44 PM
It seems they,or rather Marie were very rich compared with other Greek royals...
Her Blanc mother had inherited quite a lot of the money the royals had gambled away in Monte Carlo, hadn't she? :-)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on March 15, 2010, 09:36:16 PM
Yes, Marie was 'filthy rich'. The newspapers and magazines of the day enjoyed detailing how much money she would bring to the marriage and the cost of her trousseau, for instance. Not being very well-off, almost all of the Greek royals married well--starting with George I. George (Jr), Nicholas and Christopher (his first marriage) all married very wealthy women and Alexandra and Marie married very welathy men. Marie Bonaparte and Nancy Leeds maintained their monies even in the post-war era, unlike Helen. I don't know how much Sophie would've brought into the wedding, you'd think quite a bit. Andrew married the poorest princess.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 16, 2010, 08:57:46 AM
Yes. But Andrew's wife was one of the prettiest princess in Europe (although deaf) and also a great granddaughter of Queen Victoria and niece of the Tsarina. Their wedding was one of the last hurrah of the old order of monarchy.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on March 16, 2010, 12:21:41 PM
Merely stating a fact pertaining to money and nothing else. No one doubts her connections.

Anyway, it was stated at the time of her marriage that Marie had been left $15 million by her father. Also that she had refused the hands of Danilo of Montenego, the Duke of the Abruzzi and Prince Henri of Orleans.

Her famous troussea was displayed in Paris and consisted of over 60 complete outfits--including accessories with lots of furs.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 16, 2010, 12:57:20 PM
Just to indicated that Alice was no royal Cinderalla.

Indeed. It was Marie's wealth that made her acceptable to her in-laws. Of course, Grand Duchess Helen Vladmirovna (Princess Nicholas of Greece) did look down on her (due to the fact that she was rich and well connected at the same time). Her inclusion to the Greek Royal Family paved the way for Nancy Leeds (Princess Anastasia of Greece), who was also very rich.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on March 16, 2010, 02:12:53 PM
Just to indicated that Alice was no royal Cinderalla.


Again, that is not even close to what I said. Just that of ALL the children-in-laws of George and Olga, she was the cash poorest. Period. Nothing more to read into it or elaborate on. Nothing in the post dealt with any thing but money--not connections or anything else. 

As for Marie, does anyone know of her relationship with some of her other Bonaparte relations--the Duchess of Aosta, Princess Clothilde of Savoy (sister of the King of Italy) and her sons Prince Victor Napoleon (who married Clementine of Belgium) and Louis Napoleon (once rumored to be marrying Marie's sister-in-law Helen) ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 16, 2010, 02:16:17 PM
Don't know too much about her and the other Bonapartes. From what is being written, Marie was not particularly close to them. I think as a person, Marie was rather unique.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on March 16, 2010, 02:29:53 PM
Yes, I was searching through some old texts for info on Marie and came across an account of the wedding of Gertrude Crowther and Mr Napoleon Gerald Bonaparte-Wyse in Chiswick April 1910. He was a great-grandson of Prince Lucien, brother of Napoleon I. The B-W family seemed interesting but I'll ask for info on them on another thread. Still, so much of the family was concentrated in France and Italy, that I wondered if Marie had connection with any of the widespread Bonaparte clan.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on March 16, 2010, 05:14:36 PM
Prince George and Princess Marie with Prince and Princess Viggo, Princess Margrethe and Princess Anne.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/georgeGViggomagretanne.jpg)

Prince George and Prince Valdemar.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/valdemetgeorgdeG.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 16, 2010, 08:18:22 PM
Yes. I used the postcard on top in my book "Royal Images". It is always nice to see insides of the house.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 18, 2010, 03:52:20 PM
Relaxed Marie

(http://i40.tinypic.com/262mcza.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 18, 2010, 08:32:16 PM
Marie did have the look of a vamp. It is as if you don't know what she is going to next. Maybe it is the look of that period.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Bourgogne on April 02, 2010, 08:54:58 AM
And here is her line(and also Napoleon's) from the CAPET dynasty:


Hugues CAPET, King of France 987-996,lived from 940-996
                               I
Robert II 'le Pieux', King of France 996-1031,lived from 972-1031
                               I
Henri I, King of France 1031-1060,lived from 1008-1060
                               I
Philippe I, King of France 1060-1108,lived from 1052-1108
                               I
Princess Constance of France,lived from 1078-1125
                               I
Boemund II, Prince of Antioch 1110-1131,lived from 1107-1131
                               I
Constance, Princess of Antioch,lived from 1127-1153
                               I
Alicia de Chatillon,Princess of Antioch,died in 1235
                               I
Margrave Azzo VII d'Este,lived from 1205-1264
                               I
                   Cubitosa d'Este
                               I
Gabriele Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola,died in 1289
                               I
Isnardo Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola
                               I
Niccolò Malaspina, Marchese di Verrucola,died in 1416
                               I
                 Apollonia Malaspina
                               I
Giovanni Buonaparte,Nobile di Sarzana,died in 1501
                               I
Francesco "il Mauro" Buonaparte, Nobile di Sarzana,died around 1540
                               I
Nobile Gabriele Buonaparte,lived from 1485-1582
                               I
Nobile Geronimo Buonaparte,lived from 1520-1594
                               I
Nobile Francesco Buonaparte,lived from 1570-1633
                               I
Nobile Sebastiano Buonaparte,lived from 1603-1643
                               I
Nobile Carlo Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1637-1692
                               I
Nobile Giuseppe Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1663-1703
                               I
Nobile Sebastiano Nicola Buonaparte,lived from 1683-1720
                               I
Nobile Giuseppe Maria Buonaparte,lived from 1713-1763
                               I
Carlo Maria Buonaparte,Nobile di Toscana,lived from 1746-1785
                               I
Lucien Bonaparte,Prince di Canino and Musignano,lived from 1775-1840
                               I
Prince Pierre Napoleon Bonaparte,lived from 1815-1881
                               I
Roland,6th Prince di Canino e Musignano,lived from 1858-1924
                               I
PRINCESS MARIA LAETITIA BONAPARTE,later PRINCESS OF GREECE AND DENMARK,lived from 1882-1962


I'm sorry but there is a little problem...

"Constance, Princess of Antioch,lived from 1127-1153" was the first wife of Renaud de Châtillon, and they had a daughter, Agnès, who was married with Bela III, king of Hungary.

But Renaud de Châtillon had a second wife, Etiennette de Milly (ca 1145-1197), and she was the mother of Alicia (or Alix) de Châtillon, who was mother of Azzo VII d'Este...

That means that the Bonapartes are not descendant of Constance, but of Etiennette... And then unfortunately, they don't are descendant of Hugues Capet...

I know that some genealogists (like Chaix d'Est-Ange) said in the past that Alicia de Châtillon was, like Agnès, Constance's daughter... But that is deeply unlikely, and even impossible : Constance died in 1153, and Alicia married Azzo VI d'Este in 1204... Then Alicia would be (at least) a 51 years old bride...

Really, I was disappointed when I saw that... Bonaparte's capetian lineage was so much appealing... But it was too good to be true...  

And by the way, it's also a catastrophe for the "Kings of Jerusalem's lineage", since it would be by Constance too... :-(


Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 02, 2010, 09:08:57 AM
Middle ages and before could wought havoc in geneology charts. I could never master anything before the Reformation (1500)...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on April 06, 2010, 08:08:38 AM
Hmm,tough to say who is right and who is not from this point of view,but still thanks for sharing this...even if it's like that he still descends from Kings of France...here is other line to Azzo VII d'Este who is ancestor of Napoleon and Marie:


Emperor Charles "the Bald" of Holy Roman Empire,lived from 823-877
I
Princess Rothilde of France,died in 927
I
Count Hugues I de Maine,lived from 890-955
I
Count Hugues II de Maine,died in 977
I
Count Hugues III de Maine,died in 1015
I
Count Herbert I Eveille-Chien de Maine,died in 1036
I
Countess Garsende de Maine
I
Margrave Folco I d'Este,died in 1128
I
Margrave Obizzo I d'Este,died in 1193
I
Margrave Azzo V d'Este,died also in 1193
I
Margrave Azzo VI d'Este,died in 1212
I
Margrave Azzo VII d'Este,lived from 1205-1264


and so on...until Bonapartes...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on April 08, 2010, 07:08:06 PM
Prince George's family tried to mach him with Princess Marguerite d'Orléans, later Duchess of Magenta, and sister to Princess Marie (Waldemar). He however showed no interest in her, to the distress of the family.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Bourgogne on April 09, 2010, 09:17:05 AM
Hmm,tough to say who is right and who is not from this point of view,but still thanks for sharing this...even if it's like that he still descends from Kings of France...here is other line to Azzo VII d'Este who is ancestor of Napoleon and Marie:


Emperor Charles "the Bald" of Holy Roman Empire,lived from 823-877
I
Princess Rothilde of France,died in 927
I
Count Hugues I de Maine,lived from 890-955
I
Count Hugues II de Maine,died in 977
I
Count Hugues III de Maine,died in 1015
I
Count Herbert I Eveille-Chien de Maine,died in 1036
I
Countess Garsende de Maine
I
Margrave Folco I d'Este,died in 1128
I
(...)

and so on...until Bonapartes...

Ah yes! For this line, nothing to say, it's all right... Great job!!!

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: ashdean on April 13, 2010, 11:01:03 AM
hmmmmmmmm my first post......and immediately WRONG!!!!!  :D

well, this is def. her..... with her husband and daughter

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/daan73/withhiswifeanddaughter.jpg)
A colour pic of Princess Eugenie wearing the sapphire festoon necklace and brooch to be auctioned in Awitzerland next month on behalf of her younger son.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 13, 2010, 01:14:41 PM
You got a bigger photo of the necklace ? The auction house is Sotheby's or Christie's ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 13, 2010, 01:29:12 PM
here a "closer" view

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/daan73/GRPrccEugenie1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Bourgogne on April 14, 2010, 05:08:25 AM
hmmmmmmmm my first post......and immediately WRONG!!!!!  :D

well, this is def. her..... with her husband and daughter

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/daan73/withhiswifeanddaughter.jpg)
A colour pic of Princess Eugenie wearing the sapphire festoon necklace and brooch to be auctioned in Awitzerland next month on behalf of her younger son.

Does someone have some larger picture of this series of photographs? They are amazing. I love so much George and Marie on these pictures! I had an old magazine where these pics were very large and I've lost it...! I was really upset!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 14, 2010, 11:15:58 AM
I saw them before in a French magazine.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Bourgogne on April 14, 2010, 11:59:00 AM
I saw them before in a French magazine.

Yes, like me... "Point de Vue", I suppose?...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 14, 2010, 12:45:51 PM
Indeed...Absolutely ! The old one have great photos. Now it is more like Hola !
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Bourgogne on April 15, 2010, 04:05:38 AM
Indeed...Absolutely ! The old one have great photos. Now it is more like Hola !

Tell me about it! ;-)
Now it's just a people magazine like others... with perhaps a little more news of the royals, but barely...
For example, in the past, they would have make at least a cover and even maybe a special edition for the death of the archiduchess Regina... With all the story of the House of Saxe-Meinigen, old photos, and all that .... But now, they just made one poor page about it...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 15, 2010, 10:33:17 AM
Yes. That is why the old or back copies still have collectable values, while the new ones are like Paris Match...even the stories and photos are similar...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 15, 2010, 10:38:41 AM
Marie

(http://i43.tinypic.com/1e03sk.jpg)

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Marc on April 15, 2010, 05:52:18 PM
Interesting to see the trace of dragging the chair...I wonder was she doing that herself? :-)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 15, 2010, 08:27:12 PM
Where was the photo taken ? Cannes ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 27, 2010, 02:17:07 PM
Family portrait

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2hgwwoo.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: José on April 30, 2010, 12:12:06 PM
Has someone got photos of Irina Ovtchinikov, Peter's wife ?

I've never seen any .
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 30, 2010, 05:06:02 PM
In Arthur Gould Lee's book on the House of Greece, there is a pencil sketch of Peter and his wife. That is the closest I sawof an image of her.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on April 30, 2010, 11:58:20 PM
Same in Inheritors of Alexander the Great--I thought that book, which deals with all the descendants would perhaps have one, but just the sketch.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on May 01, 2010, 12:00:00 AM
Where was the photo taken ? Cannes ?

The Villa Giramonte, Nice-Cimiez
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 01, 2010, 12:22:02 PM
Thanks. Cannes was a royal favourite destination...not so much now.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: KarlandZita on June 22, 2010, 11:31:34 AM
George :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/248530princegeorgesdegrece.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=248530princegeorgesdegrece.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 23, 2010, 09:46:28 AM
With Umberto II and nephew Pavlos in Irene`s wedding

(http://i46.tinypic.com/34xouiv.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on June 28, 2010, 09:34:56 PM
Wedding gifts of Marie Bonaparte

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/jewels/f506f68c-1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/jewels/9d6cbe39-1.gif)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/jewels/530d53df-1.gif)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/jewels/36249e95-1.gif)

Sorry for the quality--until my harddrive is fixed, I'm not scanning so the images are coming from old magazines via my iphone camera.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 29, 2010, 11:05:25 AM
Thanks for sharing the images. I have seen the olive leaf tiara closeup and it was beauitiful !
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: kmerov on July 28, 2010, 07:01:37 PM
Princess Eugénie and Prince Peter in 1978.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Greece/PeterEugenie1978.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 29, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Yes. I wonder if they have some pics on the interiors of the Yule Palais.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 06, 2010, 08:08:39 AM
I LOVE this one!

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2189/01acd9cd47cca61l.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/01acd9cd47cca61l.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on September 06, 2010, 10:07:03 AM
thats George? wow i like that one too ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 06, 2010, 01:25:24 PM
Yes. I think that photo could be found in Uncle Waldermar's bedside in the Yule Palace or Bernstoff too.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: ashdean on September 07, 2010, 02:53:45 AM
Yes. I think that photo could be found in Uncle Waldermar's bedside in the Yule Palace or Bernstoff too.  :)
Could you please furnish the evidence....bedroom photos etc that Waldemar had that photo on display at Bernstoff or the YELLOW (NOT  Yule) palace.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on September 07, 2010, 08:28:56 AM
Very interesting that you can see his tattoo--at least one of them. Royal tattoos are much recorded but rarely seen in photos since they generally required less dress than you see in the average royal portrait.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2010, 10:13:47 AM
Speculation of course. Yule is yellow in Danish.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on September 07, 2010, 10:29:08 AM
Yule is yellow in Danish.  :)

No, jul, pronounced /ju:l/ like English Yule, is Christmas in Danish too. (And the name of several old noble families, spelled Juel, Juul etc. BTW hjul, wheel, is pronounced exactly similar.)
"Yellow" is gul, declined to agree with a neutral noun in the definite form in Det Gule Palæ.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2010, 10:38:15 AM
Ok. Det Gule Palae...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: ashdean on September 07, 2010, 02:49:56 PM
Speculation of course. Yule is yellow in Danish.  :)
but this forum is in English...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2010, 05:00:33 PM
The royal we talk about is Danish so we are both right.  :)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on September 07, 2010, 05:09:06 PM
but this forum is in English...

Mais on espère pas pour longtemps !
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Tony de Gandarillas on September 07, 2010, 06:15:44 PM
Thank you, Fyodor Petrovich, for corrected Mr. Lowe's Danish and putting him in his palae, oops, I mean place.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 08, 2010, 10:18:20 AM
Well...I don't feel put in place. Nobody is right all the time even published authors and royalty experts. I often corrected them, and they far from being offended actually thanked me. That is the attitute I take now. Only through dicussion that we know the truth.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 08, 2010, 03:42:31 PM
Good attitude to have, Eric. One of the reasons I come to this Forum is to learn. You can't learn if you are defensive about being corrected. And, as far as I see it, no one need be "put in one's place" unless the person is being deliberately rude or unkind - neither of which I like to see here. I agree with you Eric!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 29, 2010, 08:33:47 AM
Marie arrives to Greece to Marry Giorgos. She s next to her future father in law King Giorgos and beside her, a "not so happy" Fiance

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2995/szdeet.jpg) (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/szdeet.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: KarlandZita on October 17, 2010, 11:19:19 AM
George and Marie in carriage :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/494173georgemarieb.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=494173georgemarieb.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 19, 2010, 05:50:41 PM
I just found out from Pont du Ville that there is an exhibition of images of Marie Bonaparte (including a decicious de Lazslo portrait !) in St Cloud, Paris ! It will be on until Dec 12. Too bad I can't go, but love to see a bigger version of that portrait ! :-)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 17, 2010, 09:15:33 AM
Marie

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3173/00633502.jpg) (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/00633502.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 30, 2010, 05:43:20 PM
Giorgos during the trip organized by Fredericke of Greece in 1954

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3646/13146820.jpg) (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/13146820.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: AnnieB on December 01, 2010, 04:33:49 AM
Four cases!  How long was the trip?

AnnieB
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 01, 2010, 05:16:42 AM
I dont know, let me check my magazine again. But there was a lot of people so i think 4 bottles was not enough!. I will post more pictures of that gathering in the respective topics ;-D
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 03, 2010, 11:48:22 AM
George was the favourite uncle of many royals.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: AnnieB on December 04, 2010, 01:42:18 AM
They could rely on him to bring the whisky :-)

AnnieB
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Clemence on December 04, 2010, 06:04:38 AM
Marie arrives to Greece to Marry Giorgos. She s next to her future father in law King Giorgos and beside her, a "not so happy" Fiance

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2995/szdeet.jpg) (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/szdeet.jpg/)

 

sorry my dear Katenka but I believe ''Giorgos'' is not the most correct way to refer to the prince, in greek it could be Georgios and in english George. ''Giorgos'' in greece is mainly used when we are familiar to someone.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 04, 2010, 01:05:51 PM
Marie arrives to Greece to Marry Giorgos. She s next to her future father in law King Giorgos and beside her, a "not so happy" Fiance

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2995/szdeet.jpg) (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/szdeet.jpg/)

 

sorry my dear Katenka but I believe ''Giorgos'' is not the most correct way to refer to the prince, in greek it could be Georgios and in english George. ''Giorgos'' in greece is mainly used when we are familiar to someone.

I had no idea. I have friend with greek descendance (Razis) and one of them is called Giorgos, not as a diminutive but his name. That s why i thought it was the name but not  a diminutive (and because in mostly of the times, outside Greece, Giorgos is used as the greek of George). Nice to know the  proper way to spell it. Thanks!
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 04, 2010, 03:13:10 PM
Like Georgge (Goggi).
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 04, 2010, 03:52:35 PM
Gogi is clearly a diminutive of "Georgiy". I never heard of someone named "Goggi", just the surname which is italian.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 04, 2010, 04:19:23 PM
As I have said that was what the late Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte of Luxembourg called him. I found it rather enderaing.  ;)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 03, 2011, 05:55:09 PM
Marie by Antonio Argnani

(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1592/qargnani.jpg) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/qargnani.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Bourgogne on January 03, 2011, 07:20:42 PM

From the recent exposition about Marie in Saint-Cloud (near Paris).

A magnificient full-length pastel (Marie in 1907).

(http://images.20h59.com/_images/201027/a4sy62yu.jpg)

Marie with Freud.

(http://aka.sortiraparis.com/data/album/1115/1115-745dc8d0c9e067bbcd1e6688a64cfcda-400.jpg)

It was a fascinating exposition, with wonderful portraits, paintings or photos, her dresses, even her wedding dress, her toys when she was a child, everything was unforgetable! Even an amateur movie showing Marie with Freud and his family, unbelievable, I never saw Marie like this...

Unfortunately the catalogue is not very good, very incomplete, and with only little reproductions. And to take photos in the exposition was forbidden :-(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on January 03, 2011, 10:31:06 PM
The photo the portrait was based on was in one of the old illustrated magazines I was looking at this weekend. The Bystander, maybe? (I looked at a lot.  :-[ ) Of course, it was in black & white but it is the exact image down to the flower, tilt of the head and hand positioning. It must have been taken for the portrait or the portait was made off the image.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 04, 2011, 09:16:45 AM
I have that same illustration and it came in a Point de vue Issue with this one by de Laszlo

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5397/83279920.jpg) (http://img835.imageshack.us/i/83279920.jpg/)

 

Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 08, 2011, 08:49:58 AM
Prince George by Argnani

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8271/1562004.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/1562004.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 08, 2011, 11:34:54 AM
Antonio Argnani seem to sketch as many royals as De Lazslo....
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: slavona on March 14, 2011, 01:30:26 PM
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=57923 (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=57923)
Peter and Irene
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Scramsax on September 05, 2011, 09:01:20 AM
Can anyone tell me what medals and orders were awarded to Prince George of Greece (1869 - 1957)?  I am having difficulty in finding out this information and hope that someone here can help me.  Any information would be helpful. 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 05, 2011, 12:41:38 PM
According to Burke's Royal Houses, he had Adm. Of the Greek Navy, Vice-Admiral of the  Danish Navy, GCB, GCVO,  Order of the Elephant [Denmark, Order of the Seraphim {Sweden]. This could just be a partial list.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Scramsax on September 08, 2011, 06:32:36 PM
Thank you for the information.  I am wondering if he received any Portugese orders, specifically the Order of the Tower and Sword.  Would you have any idea how to find this out? 
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on April 30, 2013, 09:21:46 PM
From a Greek blog site. I don't think I"ve ever seen such an intimate royal photo:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QkhhlbKKfFU/UIAoggzA7tI/AAAAAAAAAMk/_Mpo2rBssQ0/s1600/%CE%9C%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%AF%CE%B1+%CE%92%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%AC%CF%81%CF%84%CE%B7+%CE%A0%CF%81%CE%AF%CE%B3%CE%BA%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%82+%CE%A0%CE%AD%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82+%CE%B8%CE%B7%CE%BB%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%BC%CF%8C%CF%82.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 01, 2013, 02:58:04 AM
Yes indeed. The baby was Peter right ?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on May 01, 2013, 10:26:39 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 02, 2013, 08:28:06 AM
Princess Marie Bonaparte was really an original. I greatly admired her after reading the bio on her.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 24, 2013, 03:42:22 PM
fascinating portrait of Marie with her son at her breast! Thank you. I have never seen this. Where did you find it?


From a Greek blog site. I don't think I"ve ever seen such an intimate royal photo:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QkhhlbKKfFU/UIAoggzA7tI/AAAAAAAAAMk/_Mpo2rBssQ0/s1600/%CE%9C%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%AF%CE%B1+%CE%92%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%AC%CF%81%CF%84%CE%B7+%CE%A0%CF%81%CE%AF%CE%B3%CE%BA%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%82+%CE%A0%CE%AD%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82+%CE%B8%CE%B7%CE%BB%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%BC%CF%8C%CF%82.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 24, 2013, 04:06:29 PM
It was on the Danish royal collection. But not anymore.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on July 24, 2013, 09:04:14 PM
I found it on a Greek royalty website. I don't remember which one--I was googling and messing around with google translate--but it was all in Greek.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Veronica on July 25, 2013, 06:43:28 PM
The original source is Det Kongelige Bibliotek
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 26, 2013, 03:10:53 AM
I have a little question. There is a book called " inheritors of Alexander the Great", where there are some very rare pictures of Marie's grandchildren Georg and Tatiana Radziwill. Many years ago there was a gentle person who sent me two or three pics from this book, but I have lost them by a PC crash some years ago. I only search for the photo of the young Prince Georg Radziwill as a boy (grandson of Princess Marie and Prince Georg of Greece) which is on the book (I don't know the page, sorry)
Can anyone tell me, where I can find this picture? I have searched on all royal forums, but it isn't there. I think, I once published it here on the Alexander Forum, but took it away because of Copyright laws.
I would really be very happy, if anyone could tell me, where to find this single picture of Prince Georg Radziwill as a young boy. Thank you. You can also me contact in pm !
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 26, 2013, 04:19:01 PM
Not easy to find.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 27, 2013, 10:38:34 AM
I know exactly which picture I mean, because I had it, but I lost it because of a PC crash. The book is very expensive and I only want this one picture. I pity, I did'nt save it, when my PC crashed  :(
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 27, 2013, 01:13:32 PM
The only thing you can do is find a copy of the book and scan it again or find it in a library...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 27, 2013, 03:41:25 PM
I know, but the book is not to find here, where I live in Germany :/ Some years ago a person from Alexander Palace sent me the scans, but I can't remember who....I would like to have it, because it's my passion to draw these people!  It's only for private studies, not for publishing...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: britt.25 on July 28, 2013, 12:36:25 PM
The problem is solved...it got the picture back :-) :-) :-) How nice.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on July 29, 2013, 10:21:27 AM
Britt--I think I may have been the one who sent you the photo. If you have any problems, let me know. I bought my copy off amazon (used for $8) years ago after I foolishly let the one I bought during its original publication go. (Momentarily lapse into insanity!)
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 29, 2013, 04:35:05 PM
Yes...I still have to find mine...among my many packed things. The book should be reissued...
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Clemence on June 04, 2014, 02:52:04 PM
Who knows what happened the fortune Marie inherited from her mother ... it was a big one, was it inherited by both her children?
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on June 05, 2014, 07:29:14 AM
Because of her various charities, interests, helping of fellow royals and post-WW2 economics, her fortune wasn't as immense as it had once been. She had to sell the house she had bought for George and Waldemar after the war (before or after George's death I don't know). She had serious issues with Peter so I don't know if the children shared equally or if Eugenie was favored.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on June 11, 2014, 07:23:51 PM
I thought Peter was his parents favorite? I I know George favored Peter and IMO I think George was a bit of a woman hater.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: grandduchessella on June 15, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
Peter had a big falling out after his marriage. Eugenie was more dutiful. There is also some written about in Marie's biography about she and Peter admitting to incestuous feelings for each other but agreeing not to act on them. All part of her very intense study of psychosexual behavior.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 15, 2014, 08:42:22 PM
I would have hoped that their mother being a student of Freud would have been more helpful to them.
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: rachel5a on August 17, 2014, 04:09:21 AM
Prince Peter and his wife, London
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf_GIATGPpk
Title: Re: Prince George of Greece & Princess Marie Bonaparte
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 21, 2014, 08:39:15 AM
Cut Glass English. Too bad his wife did not speak.