Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Russian History => Imperial Transportation => Topic started by: Sarushka on May 08, 2009, 04:01:54 PM

Title: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Sarushka on May 08, 2009, 04:01:54 PM
Douglas graciously offered to assist in differentiating between and identifying photographs taken aboard the imperial yachts.

For example, I've always assumed this photo was taken on the Standart, but it seems to me someone might have mentioned that it's actually the Polar Star:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/th_dancing2.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/?action=view&current=dancing2.jpg)

I also suspect this is not the Standart:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/th_39.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/?action=view&current=39.jpg)


Douglas, are there any quick and dirty tips you can offer to help the novices among us differentiate between the two yachts?
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: nena on May 08, 2009, 05:48:39 PM
I agree with you last one is not the Standart Yacht.

Here are both Yachts:

Standart:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/th_06007003.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/?action=view&current=06007003.jpg)

Polarnaya Zvezda:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/th_PolyarnayaZvezda1888-1970.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/?action=view&current=PolyarnayaZvezda1888-1970.jpg)

Nikola Pavlovich Sablin said that in summer of 1908, there were Standart sailings, but I suspect also with MF on Polar Star. About decoration, I will have to check at Russian webs. Since the first one was taken a. 1912, I think that is Polar Star, not sure. How about IF dancing video clip? Where it was? At Stanadrt?
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 08, 2009, 05:55:56 PM
This is Polar Star...you can tell it by the open rails at the right side of this photo.  The Standart had solid wall side rails as they Tsar thought they would be safer for the children not to fall overboard.

Empress Marie loved to dance and she often offered this entertainment onboard her yacht .



(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/th_dancing2.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/?action=view&current=dancing2.jpg)

Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 08, 2009, 06:01:51 PM
Nena:  This is Standart not Polar Star. Someone has mis-identified it.

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/th_PolyarnayaZvezda1888-1970.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/?action=view&current=PolyarnayaZvezda1888-1970.jpg)

Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: nena on May 08, 2009, 06:16:19 PM
Thank you for clarification!

Is this Polar Star, or is MF is on same Yacht?:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/0709.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/29130.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 08, 2009, 06:22:38 PM
Nena, Re: your Reply #4.

Yes, that is the Polar Star and that is of course MF conducting some official business on deck outside the Pavilion House at the stern of same yacht.  She is sitting on the portside. 

The topside Pavilion House contained a cabin and the main ladders that lead to the Imperial Suites below decks. The third mast aft ran approx. through the middle of this Deck House.
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 08, 2009, 06:51:25 PM
We see here the Imperial Russian children visiting their British relations onboard the  Royal Yacht "Victoria & Albert III".


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/th_39.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Standart/?action=view&current=39.jpg)


Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Sarushka on May 08, 2009, 06:59:28 PM
Is this on board either of the imperial yachts?

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001494.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001494.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 08, 2009, 08:52:24 PM
Yes, this is the Standart and it appears that AF is ready for some afternoon or evening  formal event [maybe a diplomatic dinner as she is wearing a tiara].  I matched the wallpaper with photos I have of her private suite.  I am not sure exactly where she is standing since the cabins were remodeled at some point in time.

The sun is streaming in one of the square port windows at a low angle. Her facial expression looks somewhat strained and she is supporting herself with her right hand.  Her dressing table is at the right with it's low mirrors.

Post as many photos as you like...I will do my best as I enjoy the search for answers. 

Is this on board either of the imperial yachts?

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001494.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001494.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: nena on May 09, 2009, 05:49:04 AM
Thanks a lot, Douglas!

How about this one?:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksej/th_AeksejmornariStandart.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksej/?action=view&current=AeksejmornariStandart.jpg)

Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Sarushka on May 09, 2009, 07:10:58 AM
Thanks Douglas.

I've seen this room variously labeled as Standart and Peterhof:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001934.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001934.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 09, 2009, 09:57:39 AM
Polar Star

For a clear picture go to link:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/polarstarlarge.jpg

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/PolarStarmodel.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 09, 2009, 10:09:17 AM
This charming photo is Standart.  Also, it would not be protocol for the Heir to make this photo on the Polar Star which was his grandmother's official yacht.

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksej/th_AeksejmornariStandart.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksej/?action=view&current=AeksejmornariStandart.jpg)


[/quote]
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 09, 2009, 10:13:55 AM
This is a tough one but I'll go with Standart because of the small rectangle window,   the low ceiling trim and the wood detail that was typical of the yacht Standart.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001934.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001934.jpg)
[/quote]
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Sarushka on May 10, 2009, 07:59:19 AM
I think you're right. This photo (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Peterhof/1001631.jpg) of Alix's corner chaise from Peterhof is very similar, but there are enough differences to sort them out.


How about these:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001517.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001517.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001176.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001176.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001125.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001125.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 10, 2009, 10:23:53 AM
The Grand Duchess is standing in the area of the Red mark and The Heir is sitting in the Blue mark on the plan of the Standart.  This is the stern area of the main deck.  The stairs in the left photo lead below to the Imperial Suites.  The Heir is in the area of the shelter alcove which is exposed to the outside.

I notice the seat of the benches in the middle photo have been upholstered...compfy for the Empress.  Sad that such a beautiful yacht was trashed by the Soviet Navy and turned into a minelayer.  Of course we can also consider what they did to the IF.

The right photo appears to be Standart but it could also be a MF photo from the Polar Star.  He appears rather stiff...maybe Granny was a bit intimidating.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/Standartupperdecksternred.jpg)

How about these:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001517.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001517.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001176.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001176.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001125.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001125.jpg)
[/quote]
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Sarushka on May 10, 2009, 10:30:19 AM
Terrific plan -- thank you.

And these?

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1002158.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1002158.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/th_1001623.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/id/?action=view&current=1001623.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 10, 2009, 10:47:16 AM
Re: Post 5054

Neither of these are onboard the Imperial yacht.   AF did not usually carry a parasol on the yachts.  I think I  have posted the full plans in the threads for the Standart.
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 10, 2009, 10:53:18 AM
Good grief, the Empress sure looks sour.  And those hats!  They would have needed a whole wardrobe just for them, would they not? Someone had to tend to them just to keep all the fru-fru  from being crushed. Also, she usually looked more relaxed when on board the yacht.
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Sarushka on May 10, 2009, 12:10:22 PM
I think I  have posted the full plans in the threads for the Standart.

Excellent -- do you recall which thread? (I browsed through the thread titles, but none indicated where I might find the plans.)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 10, 2009, 03:23:31 PM
I started a new thread for the plans.  I posted all of the plans JPGs that I currently have on file. Some were taken with a camera and others are direct scans.  Hope this helps with everyone's understanding of the layout of the yacht.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=13305.0
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Douglas on May 10, 2009, 11:22:29 PM
This is the only photo I have ever seen of the interior of the main deck salon on the Polar Star.  Photos of the interior of the Polar Star are very rare  or don't exist.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/PolarStarmainsalon2.jpg)

Here is the exterior of the deck salon on Polar Star

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/polarstarmisid.jpg)

Here is the Dowager Empress working outside her salon on Polar Star

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/minnieoutsidecabin.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Kassafrass on December 19, 2013, 06:59:01 PM
Polar Star?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-p-BJvHiJ2Js/UpaGPjq46eI/AAAAAAAACjM/3IALL4WFG54/w520-h509-no/1912+NOTMA+MF+Standart.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2xbzcdn-jl0/UpaGY8yVp_I/AAAAAAAAFRg/6-kHdIb5kq4/w820-h509-no/1912+OTMA+AF+Standart+2.jpg)

Not sure of this one

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CX4yOyL-Vn4/UpaGMqL3g0I/AAAAAAAACgo/uRwLQXIogbA/w387-h509-no/1914+OTMA+AF+Standart+1.jpg)
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Arabelle on December 24, 2013, 01:04:21 PM
@Великая Княжна Кайлйн

First two photographs are taken onboard Polar Star - third photograph is taken onboard Standart.
Regards,

Arabelle
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Kassafrass on December 24, 2013, 03:45:51 PM
Спасибо!
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: blessOTMA on December 25, 2013, 11:56:57 AM
Fascinating...looking at the wood molding in the background, the  Standart's  looks  more ornate than the Polar Star's  ...A help when the different  rails are not in the photo! 
Title: Re: Photo identification: Standart or Polar Star?
Post by: Kassafrass on December 26, 2013, 01:40:46 AM
Yes, the windows fooled me some. Using the railing is definitely the easiest way for me to tell which yacht it is hehe.