Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Tatiana Nicholaievna => Topic started by: IlyaBorisovich on May 18, 2004, 03:37:03 AM

Title: GD Tatiana's Illness in 1913
Post by: IlyaBorisovich on May 18, 2004, 03:37:03 AM
I've read on several sites that Tatiana became seriously ill in early 1913 from drinking orangeade at a party.  As a result she had to have her hair cut short, or shaved.  This led to her having to wear a wig for the formal portraits taken during the Tercentenery in March of that year.  Does anyone have any information on exactly what she had, or when precisely she fell ill?  Thanks.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Thomas_A. on May 18, 2004, 04:08:31 AM
I thought she got thypoid after drinking the bad water in Petersburg!
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on May 18, 2004, 07:13:00 AM
I read she got typhus while in the Winter Palace in Saint Petersburg...
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Forum Admin on May 18, 2004, 09:06:55 AM
It came from drinking water at the Winter Palace, and it was Typhoid Fever, Typhus....in early 1913.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: BobAtchison on May 18, 2004, 10:03:59 AM
One of the reasons they avoided the Winter Palace was the problem with drains and the water in the palace.  This was as much of a reason for avoiding the palace as anywhere else.

The Alexander Palace had a good source of water and excellent plumbing thanks to Danini's constant improvements.

After Nicholas II almost died from it at Livadia staying away from potential infectious locations was a fixation of the court.  This was one of the reasons old Livadia was eventually torn down.

Bob
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on February 07, 2005, 07:26:22 PM
I read that it was from orangeade like someone said above! lol

I know vaguely about Typhoid, but what does it consist of?
Is it like a deadly version of the flu?
I remember reading that when Nicholas got Typhoid, little Maria was so sad and crid when she heard about him..and she was desperate to see him.  :'(
But for safety, it was prevented.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on February 07, 2005, 07:27:31 PM
In fact, wasn't that when Nicholas's brother Mikhail was offically appointed tsar in the event Nicholas died because Alexei was so young, or was it Alexandra who would be a regent until Alexei was old enough?
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: anna on February 09, 2005, 04:09:08 PM
Quote
In fact, wasn't that when Nicholas's brother Mikhail was offically appointed tsar in the event Nicholas died because Alexei was so young, or was it Alexandra who would be a regent until Alexei was old enough?



When George died in 1899, Michael became heir to the throne until a son was born to Nicholas. When Alexei was born in 1904, Michael was named Regent in the event of Nicholas dying before Alexei reached manhood.
Alexei could not reign in his own right until he was sixteen.
When Nicholas had fallen ill with typhoid in 1900, Allix expected their fourth child, this could be the long awaited son. If Nicholas died, Michael would be Tsar. Alix refused this because if the baby would be a boy, the child should be declared Tsar and in the meantime she would rule Rusia as Regent.
The prime minister Count Witte, opposed such idea and supported Michael.
At the end Nicholas recovered and their fourth child was a girl; Anastasia.

But what has this to do with Tatiana's illness?

Anna
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on February 09, 2005, 04:14:48 PM
I asked because Tatiana's illness of typhoid was the same as Nicholas's bout of typhoid earlier on.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Sarai on February 13, 2005, 03:32:14 PM
Quote
I know vaguely about Typhoid, but what does it consist of?
Is it like a deadly version of the flu?


Here is some information about this disease from Medicinenet.com:
"The incubation period is usually 1-2 weeks and the duration of the illness is about 4-6 weeks. The patient experiences poor appetite, headaches, generalized aches and pains, fever, and lethargy. Chest congestion develops in many patients and abdominal pain and discomfort are common. The fever becomes constant. Improvement occurs in the third and fourth week in those without complications. About 10% of patients have recurrent symptoms (relapse) after feeling better for one to two weeks.

Typhoid Fever is treated with antibiotics which kill the Salmonella bacteria. Prior to the use of antibiotics, the fatality rate was 10%. Death occurred from overwhelming infection, pneumonia, intestinal bleeding, or intestinal perforation. With antibiotics and supportive care, mortality has been reduced to 1-2%."
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on April 10, 2005, 11:30:47 AM
It seems out of all the children, Tatiana was the girl who got ill most often.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Laura Mabee on April 10, 2005, 07:49:49 PM
This thread is very interesting! I appreciate all the information on both Tatiana and Nicky. I heard once that it was Orangeade, but after reading around the forums, I realized it was water. This is a really neat thread!
Thanks guys!  :)
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Lanie on April 10, 2005, 07:59:53 PM
Quote
This thread is very interesting! I appreciate all the information on both Tatiana and Nicky. I heard once that it was Orangeade, but after reading around the forums, I realized it was water. This is a really neat thread!
Thanks guys!  :)


It was Orangeade, but it was made with the bad water of St. Petersburg. :)
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Laura Mabee on April 10, 2005, 09:14:08 PM
Interesting. So really, both stories are right. Just a mix of information. Thanks
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Anastasia_R on June 11, 2005, 09:01:27 PM
Oh my goodness,I never heard about this!Wow,this is interesting info!
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Tatiana02 on November 06, 2005, 05:14:57 AM
What is Orangeade? ???
And how did shaving or cutting her hair short help ..anything?  :-[
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Holly on November 06, 2005, 08:18:46 AM
I think the high fever and antibiotics caused her hair to fall out and Alexandra thought that by shaving her head it would be easier and it would help it to grow back faster.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Georgiy on November 06, 2005, 01:53:35 PM
Orangeade would be something like Fanta or orange-juice instead of the lemon in lemonade.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Sarushka on November 06, 2005, 05:43:49 PM
Quote
And how did shaving or cutting her hair short help ..anything?  :-[


It didn't! The idea that hair grows more quickly after being cut is a myth (as is the idea that hair grows back thicker the more you cut it). It does grow back more evenly, though...
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: stacey on November 20, 2005, 05:10:35 PM
Er---no antibiotics in existence in 1913 (first used to treat wounded soldiers during WW11)--so poor Tatiana had to fight the infections off all on her own basically. This is a fascinating thread, until I read something about it on here just last night I had no idea Tatiana had had this illness or lost her hair twice--in 1913 AND 1917, after the measles. Poor girl!!
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: imperial angel on December 13, 2005, 11:28:37 AM
But she looked lovely with short hair, although I am sure she did not like it short as that was not accepted convention back then at all.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Sarushka on November 05, 2008, 09:03:48 AM
I've read on several sites that Tatiana became seriously ill in early 1913 from drinking orangeade at a party.  As a result she had to have her hair cut short, or shaved.  This led to her having to wear a wig for the formal portraits taken during the Tercentenery in March of that year.  Does anyone have any information on exactly what she had, or when precisely she fell ill?  Thanks.

Although she never mentions typhoid specifically by name, nor the orangeade that allegedly caused it, Olga's 1913 diary pinpoints some of the details of Tatiana's illness:

22 February: "poor Tatiana is in bed with fever"
23-28 February: various notes on Tatiana's temperature and headache. The highest temp was 39.7 on 27 Feb.
1 March: "Tatiana's temperature was 38.1 in the morning, in the afternoon 37.8, 38.6 in the evening. She is feeling better."
5 March: "Sat with her [Olga A] and Mama in T[atiana]'s room, who had her hair cut short. In the morning: 38.9, 39.1, after bath - 39."
13 March: "Tatiana's temperature is normal."
19 March: "T[atiana] was lying on the couch and walked around a little."
21 March: "T[atiana] came down for the first time today."
23 March: "T[atiana] was downstairs the whole time and is absolutely happier. She got considerably taller."
27 March: "T[atiana] came out on to the balcony for 45 minutes."
3 April: "T[atiana] went for a ride in the garden for the first time, and ate with us, too."
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Padawan Ryan on November 10, 2008, 06:29:38 PM
Thanks for posting that! Now we have a little better of an idea of how Tatiana was during her illness!
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: historyfan on November 10, 2008, 09:57:57 PM
Quote
And how did shaving or cutting her hair short help ..anything?  :-[

It didn't! The idea that hair grows more quickly after being cut is a myth (as is the idea that hair grows back thicker the more you cut it). It does grow back more evenly, though...

Would it make sense, though, that because it was a very high fever, that shaving the hair off might make the patient feel better?  As in, the heat can escape the head more readily...?  I don't know.

I read that it was a common treatment.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: historyfan on November 10, 2008, 09:58:54 PM
It seems out of all the children, Tatiana was the girl who got ill most often.

If that is indeed true, it would be another inheritance from her mother, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: historyfan on November 10, 2008, 10:00:13 PM
I've read on several sites that Tatiana became seriously ill in early 1913 from drinking orangeade at a party.  As a result she had to have her hair cut short, or shaved.  This led to her having to wear a wig for the formal portraits taken during the Tercentenery in March of that year.  Does anyone have any information on exactly what she had, or when precisely she fell ill?  Thanks.

I wasn't aware that the Grand Duchess(es) had their hair shaved twice - they were recovering from measles when their captivity began in 1917, as well. 
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 11, 2008, 01:44:34 AM
I don´t think she had her hair actually ahved. Just cut. Like here:

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/Tatiana%20Nikolaevna/th_NemocnTana.jpg) (http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/Tatiana%20Nikolaevna/NemocnTana.jpg)
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness
Post by: Sarushka on November 11, 2008, 09:25:20 AM
It seems out of all the children, Tatiana was the girl who got ill most often.

If that is indeed true, it would be another inheritance from her mother, wouldn't it?

I don't have the impression that any one of the children was more inclined to illness than the others -- with the exception of Aleksei's hemophilia, of course. Maria is generally seen as the most physically robust of OTMAA, but her illnesses, though infrequent, were quite serious: hemorrhaging with tonsilitis, and contracting double pneumonia on top of measles, for example.

I think there's a thread around here somewhere with details of the children's health...


And Ally, you're correct about Tatiana's hair.
Title: Re: GD Tatiana's Illness in 1913
Post by: mishaxenia on May 19, 2015, 12:29:48 PM
I will post here my question, about the illness of Tatiana , you are aware of diaries or writings of Alexandra about the daughter's illness ? or of other family members ? I read in the forum, from the diary of olga the body temperature of those days (I'll get the book of Helen Azar )  while Nicola writes only “ Tatiana has a fever”
I was interested in the familiar appearance and private of the early days of the illness until early March.   Thanks