Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Other Palaces => Topic started by: James Nicolas on February 03, 2004, 04:37:44 PM

Title: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: James Nicolas on February 03, 2004, 04:37:44 PM
Is the Spala Hunting Lodge still intact ?

Who owns it ?

What is its history since the Revolution ?

Your insites are welcomed

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: jda on February 05, 2004, 03:00:10 PM
I think that the site of the Spala  hunting lodge is now a sports' camp.  There is a site that seems to talk about it but it is in Polish.  www.spala.pl  Also I read somewhere that at the outbreak of WW1 all important items were removed ahead of the German armies.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: David Newell on February 08, 2004, 12:45:36 PM
Spala Hunting Lodge was destroyed by the Germans in 1944 nothing remains, except some ancillary buildings

Quote
Is the Spala Hunting Lodge still intact ?

Who owns it ?

What is its history since the Revolution ?

Your insites are welcomed


Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: James Nicolas on February 08, 2004, 03:20:11 PM
Thanks david,

that is a shame.

Do you have further information as to why it was destroyed ?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: BobAtchison on February 09, 2004, 10:29:11 AM
I believe I read somewhere that it was occupied by high Nazi officials during the war, but could have confused that with Bielovyezhe.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on February 10, 2004, 05:04:11 PM
About Spala: The wooden lodge, built in 1884, was occupied during the 1st World War by German troops, until 7 December 1918.  In 1920, Josef Pilsudowski made the dacha his country residence.  In the Second World War, Germans again occupied it; in 1943, Hitler visited and spent the night in Nicholas and Alexandra's old bedroom, sleeping in their bed.  On the night of 17 January, 1945, the Nazis burnt the wooden palace when they retreated from the area.  Hope this helps!

Greg King
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: James Nicolas on February 11, 2004, 03:23:41 PM
Thanks Greg for your response.

I am in Melbourne Australia and I purchased your book here and enjoyed it immensely. I would get you to sign it only we are on the other side of the world.

I look forward to obtaining a copy of your special edition of your magazine on the book.

Just one question , is the Governors house in Tobolsk open for tourists ?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on February 11, 2004, 09:00:56 PM
About the Governor's House: I never made it as far north as Tobolsk, so I can't speak from personal experience.  The last I heard, a friend who had been there told me that much of the furniture from the Imperial Family's tenure was in storage and was being returned to the house.  Plans were then underway to restore the rooms as they had been in 1917-18 as a museum.  But I'm afraid I don't know if these continue or not!

Greg King
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on February 17, 2004, 09:04:01 PM
I've been reading about the demise of various homes and palaces, and was saddened to read about the destruction of Spala . . . until I read that Hitler had stayed there and slept in Nicholas and Alexandra's bed. If it was fated to be destroyed by fire, too bad it didn't happen with Hitler inside.

When I think of Spala, I think of Alexei's near-fatal accident. And I also think of how Grand Duchess Olga Nicholievna and her cousin, the only child of Ernie and Ducky, played together, and how the little girl died suddenly--she drank some impure water, if I recall correctly--and how frightening this must have been for Olga to have lost her playmate.  Perhaps it is appropriate that the dark hunting lodge of Spala--where so much death and sadness occurred--no longer survives, but that we still have the splendid, light-drenched palace-by-the-sea of Livadia to visit.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on February 17, 2004, 09:31:27 PM
Princess Elisabeth of Hesse, Ernie's only daughter, actually died at Bielovezh, from typhoid.  Although there were all kinds of rumors going about at the time, the autopsy showed that she had been infected most likely before she left Darmstadt for Poland.  It came on Olga's birthday-and for the rest of her life Olga would remember her cousin and her death in the midst of her own celebrations.

Greg King
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on February 17, 2004, 09:34:13 PM
Woops-typing too fast and not thinking-Elisabeth died at Skernevetski-and fell ill the day of Olga's birthday-though Olga much later made a number of references to her own birthday celebrations being clouded with memories of her cousin's death.

Greg King
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on February 18, 2004, 08:10:46 PM
Thank you for the clarification!  Olga is my favorite, and I am in the process of writing about her.  I haven't read those references to her cousin Elizabeth that you mentioned, but--putting two and two together--figured this was a very sad memory for her, especially since she already would be aware of her little brother's vulnerability.  With these type of early childhood awarenesses, it's no wonder that Olga had an interest in poetry, was considered serious-minded, and in captivity seemed more introspective than her sisters.

This is also a great opportunity to thank you for your books re: the Romanovs, which I return to time and time again.  Wonderfully written, with excellent perspective, and very well-documented!
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on March 29, 2004, 07:30:45 AM
I've been doing a lot of research lately into the Polish estates, and have a query for anyone here who might (?) be in Moscow or have good contacts there:

In 1915, Nicholas ordered all of the fittings from Bielovezh stripped and packed on a train to Moscow.  This included all of the carpets, furniture designed by Nicolas de Rochefort, paintings, chandeliers, etc., as it was feared the lodge would be occupied by the advancing German troops.  In Moscow, the contents of the lodge were stored at Neskuchnoye Palace.  In the aftermath of the Revolution, I have no idea what happened to them.  Does anyone have any insight into this, or an idea where they might have gone?  I doubt that anything remains at Neskuchnoye, but it might be worth asking if they photographed the inventory or might have a piece or two.

Thanks in advance!

Greg King
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Nick_Nicholson on March 29, 2004, 08:56:17 AM
Dear Greg,

I don't really know what happened, but I can tell you that when I was at Christie's we sold a small pair of tables which had Bieloviezh labels on them as well as Soviet painted inventory numbers.

This indicates to me that the objects were probably inventoried in Moscow after the Revolution.  You might also check the Lepke Auction Catalogues for the Berlin sales of 6-7 November 1928 and 4-5 June 1929  -- many pieces from random palaces found their way into these sales.  If the pieces were sold in prvate sales during the thirties, you will have a much harder time.

I suggest that you contact the curator at the Wilanow Palace Museum in Warsaw, as I remember that they had some Bielovezh information in the mid-nineties.

Best,

Nick
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on March 29, 2004, 09:22:02 AM
Thanks for the information and hints, Nick!  Having slopped through dealing with various auctions houses and old catalogues (Christie's, Phillips, etc.) a decade ago to track down Alexandra's jewelry sold in the west, I suppose going this route can't be much worse!  I'm just rather curious-the museum at Bielovezh has a few things, but nothing substantial.

Greg
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: BobAtchison on March 30, 2004, 08:49:14 AM
Greg:

There is a book I saw that had a full page description of what happened to that estate and its things.  I wish I could remember where I read it, perhaps you have already seen it.

It had a description of Nicholas's swimming bath there (it pre-dated the one in the AP) and that's why I remember it.

I will see if I can find it.

When the things were sent to Moscow from the palaces of Petrograd (in 1915 and 1917) and Poland some were separated by their value (and whether they were the Tsar's personal property or not) and sent to the Kremlin.  After the revolution some things were sent back to Petersburg and others were kept for the use of the Bolshevik government and its officials.  Not all of the things that should have returned to the AP went back.  Alexandra's huge and beautiful Roentgen desk went to the Hermitage - where it is still to be found (this desk was original to the palace).

Some things that had historic value that came from other palaces were sent to the AP because their original homes no longer existed or were not palace-museums.  I assume the museum curators made these recommendations that required the approval of their Bolshevik bosses.

Bob
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on April 14, 2004, 09:35:13 AM
As far as i know Nicholas considered this hunting lodge(i would call it palace) "almost too luxurious". The Party bosses in communist Russia were hunting there many times and in december 1991 Russia, Ukraine and Beloruss signed the agreement dissolving the soviet union in this place, so it must be well preserved.
I seen two interiors and were really beautiful, very much in the Maple´s style with a cozy corner couch and so on.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on April 14, 2004, 09:23:23 PM
Skernevetski stood in a large park on the outskirts of Warsaw.  The first house was built in 1463, six years after the Catholic Church had purchased the estate as a county retreat for the Archbishop.  In 1609, Archbishop Voytek Baranowski commissioned a palace, directing that it be built in Renaissance style; at the same time, a formal garden was laid out, complete with long allees and hidden pavilions.  A century later, in 1761, Polish architect Efraima Schroegera extensively remodeled the Bishop’s Palace in the then-fashionable neoclassical style; over the next four decades, the gardens were extended, and a large, English-style park, with an artificial lake and carefully-placed glades dominated by groups of classical statuary, created to shield the estate from the rapidly spreading Warsaw suburbs.  In 1795, the Palace was again redone in the neoclassical style, this time by architect Stepan Jakuba.  In 1820, Alexander I purchased the estate for his brother Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich, and-after further renovations by architect Carlo Rossi-it served as the official residence of the Governor-General of Poland.  In 1831, Nicholas I signed the estate over to the Imperial Crown, and thereafter it was used as not only a hunting lodge but also the Emperor’s official Polish residence.  In the reign of Alexander III, Skernevetski played host to an important meeting of the Emperors of Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary.  Although Alexander disliked the formality of the neoclassical Palace, he often stayed at Skernevetski, and made a number of improvements, adding a balcony above the courtyard for reviews, and ordering additions to the garden and park.  By the beginning of Nicholas II’s reign, the former country estate was surrounded by the urban sprawl of Warsaw, and the Emperor confined his stays to short periods, preferring to spend his holidays in the Polish countryside.  In March 1915, Skernevetski was occupied by the Germans.  In 1919, it was confiscated by the Polish Government and used as an official residence.  During World War II, the German Army occupied the Palace, and its neoclassical rooms served a more ominous purpose, as Warsaw Headquarters for the dreaded Gestapo.  After a period of restoration, the Bishop’s Palace housed several official institutions; in 1998, it was converted into a museum.

Greg King
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Greg_King on April 14, 2004, 09:27:28 PM
Thanks Nick and Bob-

Antonio-the palace is no longer there.  During the First World War, Bielovezh itself remained untouched and, in 1918, it was seized by the newly independent Polish Government, which installed a number of organizations within its rooms, including the Bialowieza Provincial Offices, and the Polish Forestry School; the only change was made to the Chapel, which was converted to a Catholic Church.  In 1930, the lodge became the country retreat of the President of Poland, though the interior was not substantially altered.  During the Second World War, the Palace was seized by occupying German troops and used as their local headquarters.  When, on the night of July 17, 1944, they retreated, the Germans set fire to the building; at the end of three days, only the exterior brick walls were left.  The Polish authorities considered the building a danger, and in 1947 it was blown up.  For fourteen years, the substantial ruins lay neglected and overgrown; then, in 1960, the last vestiges of de Rochefort’s lodge were carted away, replaced with a tourist hotel.  Officially established as a National Park in 1932, the Bialowieza Puscha was added to the list of World Heritage Sites in 1979.  In 1999, a permanent exhibition, “The Tsar’s Palace at Bielovezh,” was established in the old gatehouse-the only structure built by de Rochefort that remains-that contains furniture, photographs, plans, and bits of interior decoration salvaged from the ruins in 1944.

Greg King
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on April 14, 2004, 09:38:19 PM
Hello Greg!
Thanks so much from your always great information!! The little i knew and posted was quoted from the catalogue of an exhibition  about Empress Maria Feodorovna that took place in Denmark.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: elisa_1872 on April 23, 2004, 06:00:48 PM
Is it indeed true that at Spala a statue of Alexei, or is it at another Polish estate? If yes, can anyone also tell me whereabout the statue is located, in the grounds?

Best wishes,
Elisa :)

I had no idea what had happened to Spala.. too terrible to know what happened to the house... oh such terrible destruction... +++
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: BobAtchison on April 23, 2004, 07:35:42 PM
There is a wonderful statue of Aleksey at the Cottage at Alexandria-Peterhof...
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: ptitchka on April 26, 2004, 10:24:22 AM
Dear Elisa --  I am not sure about whether there is a statue of Alexei Nikolaevich at Spala, but I do know there is supposed to be one at the Cottage at Peterhof, 'looking down towards the place where he was born' (the seaside palace destroyed after World War II).  Here is a link so you can see:  

www.peterhof.org/kotimg/kot35.jpg

The boy did say when he was ill, 'When I am dead, please build me a little monument of stones in the woods.'  I wish there were such a place built in memory of the little Tsarevich, especially since he has not been found.  While many including myself revere him as a martyr, many others simply love the little boy.  
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Sarai on April 26, 2004, 07:49:33 PM
There is a close-up of that statue in the last page of the book Nicholas II: The Imperial Family published by Abris Publishers, St. Petersburg.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Pippilin on May 23, 2004, 03:52:29 PM
Does anyone know if any pictures of the hunting lodge (exterior of building) at Spala exist?  If not, could someone post a written description of what it looked like during the time of Nicholas II?  Thanks! ;D
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Sarai on May 24, 2004, 03:30:50 PM
Peter Kurth's book Tsar has some pictures of Spala during the Tsar's time on pages 92-93. It shows pictures of the exterior and of a curtained balcony where Alexandra sometimes retired to during Alexei's illness. The house was described as a rustic, timbered hunting lodge in the forests of Russian Poland, near Warsaw, where the family went only in the autumn for the Tsar to hunt. It had dark rooms and Anna Vyrubova described it as "one of the dampest, gloomiest palaces I have ever seen." The book says that Alexandra never liked the place, and never went there again after Alexei's near-fatal illness in 1912.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: elisa_1872 on May 24, 2004, 04:22:44 PM
Hi Pravoslavnaya, and Bob!
Thanks so much for your replies about the Alexei statue, it must have been the one at Peterhof i was thinking of. Thanks again!!
Great question about the Spala interiors, i too would love to find out more about them. Thanks Sarai for those details! :)

Elisa
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Pippilin on May 25, 2004, 11:30:52 AM
JM and Sarai-- Thank you for the info on Spala.  After looking at the exterior picture of the lodge and knowing of Alexei's near-fatal accident there, I can more than understand why Alexandra would not want to return.
Gloomy inside, gloomy outside!
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Sarai on May 27, 2004, 01:09:15 PM
Pippilin,
Massie's Nicholas and Alexandra also offers this description of Spala (pg. 182): "Lost at the end of a sandy road, the wooden villa resembled a small country inn. Inside, it was cramped and dark; electric lights were left burning all day so that people could find their way through the tiny rooms and narrow hallways. Outside, the forest was magnificent. A clear, fast-flowing stream cut through the middle of a wide green lawn. From the edge of the lawn, small paths branched off into the forest. One was called the Road of Mushrooms because it ended at a bench surrounded by a fairy ring of mushrooms."
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on August 28, 2004, 02:33:35 PM
i don't know about anyone else, but i'd love to see the plans for the now non-existant palace.    (mr. king mentioned the gate-house museum had a set {or something like that...})    

does anyone know if they (or a linear-type likeness of them) has ever been published?  online, in a book or otherwise?

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Mateo from Poland on August 29, 2004, 02:45:39 AM
I have two very nice pictrues of orthodox church in Białowieża (its written in polish). It was build for last emperor. How can I post them here on the forum? I can send them to someone if it help.
Grettings
Matt
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Forum Admin on August 29, 2004, 10:30:57 AM
You may send them to me.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Mike on September 14, 2004, 02:47:51 AM
Here is a detaled report (http://www.parovoz.com/stories/bialowieza/) (in Russian) on a recent trip to the former imperial rail stations at Bielovezh. It includes maps and photos, so those not reading Russian might also be interested to look.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on September 14, 2004, 08:16:51 PM
In 'Field Hospital and Flying Column in Russia - Journal of an English Nursing Sister', Violetta Thurstan wrote of the hospital at Skiernevice, living in the Tsar's shooting-lodge, and "... The Tsar had a private theater at Skiernevice with a little separate station of its own about 200 yards farther down the line than the ordinary station..."

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Noblesse_Oblige/Noblesse_Oblige_01.htm

Joanna
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: kris on October 20, 2004, 02:18:35 PM
I'm looking for any informations about bialowieza palace and park. If anyone know something please let me know.
thank you
kris
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Scott on January 05, 2005, 10:05:15 PM
Does anyone know the exact location of the former hunting lodge at Spala?  I'm looking for the kind of directions that would allow someone to find the exact spot and actually look around the site?

Scott
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on February 19, 2005, 02:42:12 PM
Hi - I have a note that in August 1894 Alexander III and his brother Grand Duke Vladimir went to "Bielovejic" for some hunting and relaxation.  By this time Alexander was very sick and he would be dead in 3 months.  Am I right that this thread is talking about that hunting lodge?  I'm not findng anything on the net with the name of "Bielovejic" and I am thinking it is just a spelling "thing".

thanks for your help.

dca
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Donielle on February 20, 2005, 11:29:03 PM
Quote
Following a link found today in a guidebook on the Bialowieza Park, I was distressed to read of the threatened destruction of the forest. I understand that there is only the church from Nicholas II time but it was beautiful to know that this forest survived ravages of revolutions and wars. It reminds me of the New Forest in England that was once a preserve of kings and is today a breathtaking spot of beauty. A legacy from the Romanovs to future generations that is imperative to save.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/conservation/story/0,13369,1031323,00.html

http://www.franknature.nl/reports/biasmeenge.htm

Joanna

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Donielle on February 20, 2005, 11:32:44 PM
Isn't this also the last forest that European bison can be found?Also one of ,if not the only virgin forest left in europe?Please clarify if possible?-Donielle
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Donielle on February 21, 2005, 07:09:18 PM
Quote
After clicking on the links provided by Joanna,my questions were answered.Indeed a primeval forest,inhabited by many mammals.The european bison among them.I once saw a documentary on this wonderful forest .It showed bison running through this forest through the deep snow.What a magnificent sight it was.The steam from their nostrils as they ran ,the tree trunks of these ancient trees near the width of the bison themselves .Here in America we have the plains bison.These wonderful woodland bison were a marvel to behold,running fulltilt through the forest.I have seen whitetail deer in herds move this way but never a heard of bison.Thir agility was amazing ,in heavy old growth forest no less!I hope thir home is preserved.-Donielle(Thank you Joanna for the links )
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: maksymilian333 on March 14, 2005, 03:19:40 PM
Hunting lodge in Spala was located in central Poland on the east of Tomaszow Mazowiecki. 60 km going east from Lodz and 110 km going south from Warsaw.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Scott on March 14, 2005, 09:21:59 PM
Maksymilian333 have you been to the Spala site?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: maksymilian333 on March 16, 2005, 03:05:41 PM
yes i'm there almost every week.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: maksymilian333 on March 16, 2005, 03:24:37 PM
Do somebody know where I can find architectionall plans of Spala Palace? As i know I can't find it in Poland. Polish archive don't have it. I also met grand grand son of architect Mikucki who build this Palace and He don't have any plans as well.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Radoslaw on March 16, 2005, 03:46:10 PM
Yes you are right. I have been in Bialowieza as a child more than 20 years ago. I have seen zubr (it is the Polish name of the animal which is a little different from American bison). Bialowieza is the National Park under the protection of the low, so it seems it will be preserve as the original, wild forest - the perfect home for a lot of the different kinds of the animals. :)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Sarai on March 16, 2005, 03:54:11 PM
I know that the Spala lodge burned down, but I would like to know what is on the site now. Is it really now a sports camp? Maksymilian, you say you go to the site nearly every week - could you please tell us what is there now?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: maksymilian333 on March 16, 2005, 04:09:35 PM
Now Spala is one of the bigest sport center in Europe. Many National teams go there to get ready for Olimpic Games or world cups ect. at the place where the Spala palace was standing you can see only rocks from foundations. But all Spala have many buildings made by tzar for his service.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Scott on March 16, 2005, 07:55:22 PM
Maksymilian333 - you stated that the location of the former Imperial Hunting Lodge in Spala is located in central Poland - east of Tomaszow Mazowiecki. 60 kilometers going east from Lodz and 110 kilometers going south from Warsaw.  Would it be possible to be more specific?  Maybe post a map of the exact location?  Something that I could print out, take to Poland, and use to walk up to the exact site and look at the foundation stones?

Also, if you are at the location frequently, would it be possible to take some photos of the foundation stones, and anything else that remains, and post them here?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: maksymilian333 on March 17, 2005, 04:56:45 AM
This is map of Poland where you can find Spala

http://www.pilot.pl/index.php3?Z_CITY_NAME=spa%B3a&form_t=1&lang=pl

This is map of Spala: on the south of point 1 (Rogacz) you can find Spala Palace foundations

http://www.spala.pl/zwiedzanie/zwiedzanie.html

I'm going to Spala this weekend so i can take some pictures

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: maksymilian333 on March 17, 2005, 05:01:35 AM
Please if somebody have any rare pictures of Spala send it to my mail.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Sarai on March 17, 2005, 08:06:48 AM
Quote
Now Spala is one of the bigest sport center in Europe. Many National teams go there to get ready for Olimpic Games or world cups ect. at the place where the Spala palace was standing you can see only rocks from foundations. But all Spala have many buildings made by tzar for his service.


Thanks for your reply! I find it fascinating that you can still see the foundation stones of the former Spala hunting lodge and that you can still see buildings that were built for the Tsar. Such an important (but sad) event in the Imperial Family's life happened on that site when Alexei nearly died there. I too would LOVE it if you could take pictures of the site where the hunting lodge stood and of the foundation stones!
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Scott on March 17, 2005, 05:37:19 PM
Maksymilian333 - Thank you for your willingness to take and post photos of the foundation stones of the Hunting Lodge.   There are photos posted on this site, and elsewhere, of the "ruins" of many Imperial locations, such as the the Lower Palace at Peterhof and the Imperial Station at Tsarskoe selo, but I am not aware of any photos that show the current location and status of the ruins of the Hunting Lodge at Spala.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Scott on March 20, 2005, 09:28:41 PM
Maksymilian333 - Thank you very much for taking and posting the link to these photos.  Can you tell us anything else about the photographs?  Do you know what portion of the Hunting Lodge foundation these stones represent?

Also, I notice the locomotive in the background of the second photo.  Is this the same locomotive that is pictured in the photograph located at the Spala website: http://www.spala.pl/galeria/parowoz_m.html?

Lastly, do any of the photos located on the Spala website, http://www.spala.pl/galeria/galeria.html, show any other imperial sites?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Sarai on March 25, 2005, 03:07:47 PM
Thank you for posting those pictures of Spala. I look forward to reading any more information that you can provide us (such as the answers to Scott's questions).
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Reco on June 09, 2005, 09:21:04 PM
Skiernewice palace
(http://img201.echo.cx/img201/8072/skiernewicepalace1ab0tg.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: xirbis on June 14, 2005, 09:26:51 PM
 :)Greetings, everybody.
 What about the Royal Castle in Warsaw? Has it ever been one of the Romanov residenses in Poland? If not, what was the Castle's fate when Poland became a part of Russian Empire?
  And also about the Palace of Belveder in Warsaw. Any Romanovs' connections? I believe I have read  that the Belveder in warsaw was at one time GD Konstantine's (Pavlovich) Residence. Any Romanovs at the Belveder after him?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on June 19, 2005, 06:45:36 AM
In an old book on Kaiser Franz Josef that I have, there are two pics of the visit He paid to Tsar Alexander III at Skierniewice (september 1884): a (very partial) exterior view and the bedroom used by the Kaiser.

In that occasion not only Kaiser FJ but also Kaiser Wilhelm I was present.

The author of the book is Eugene Bagger.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on June 19, 2005, 06:47:33 AM
Quote
In the reign of Alexander III, Skernevetski played host to an important meeting of the Emperors of Russia, Germany, and Austria-Hungary.  Although Alexander disliked the formality of the neoclassical Palace, he often stayed at Skernevetski, and made a number of improvements, adding a balcony above the courtyard for reviews, and ordering additions to the garden and park.

Greg King


The exterior pic in fact shows the balcony of the facade.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: TJ Jones on June 22, 2005, 11:07:33 PM
Is there any pictures of Skiernewice Palace with people standing by it? I want to compare it to their height lol. The palace looks small to me, like a large surburban house.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Lyss on August 08, 2005, 03:14:29 PM

I'm going to Poland in two weeks: 2 weeks Gdansk and 3 days Warsaw. Is Spala doable in a days visit?How long does it take to get there?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: madame_chauchat on August 09, 2005, 12:13:52 PM
Spala is about 100 km from Warsaw. It usually takes less than hour to get there.

Theres nothing left from the palace, but, like maksymilian333 said, you can see some buildings from the romanovs period. Anyway, Spala is a nice place to visit, with beautiful forest. Im going there next week, so i'll try to make some photos that may interest you.  :)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Lyss on August 09, 2005, 03:57:13 PM
Thank you
Is there something else near Warsaw that's linked to the Romanovs that I can also visit?
I don't know much about Warsaw or Poland actualy. I was born there but moved to Belgium at the age of 6.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: madame_chauchat on August 16, 2005, 08:52:47 AM
Promised pictures:

http://polythenepam.w.interia.pl/spala1.jpg - one of the buildings from the Romanovs period
http://polythenepam.w.interia.pl/spala2.jpg

http://polythenepam.w.interia.pl/spala3.jpg -  another buildings near place where the palace stood
http://polythenepam.w.interia.pl/spala4.jpg
http://polythenepam.w.interia.pl/spala6.jpg

http://polythenepam.w.interia.pl/spala5.jpg  - the "palace" today
http://polythenepam.w.interia.pl/spala7.jpg


enjoy :P
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Lyss on August 16, 2005, 11:43:25 AM
thk you
I think I will visit it if I have the time
If anyone else is going there the 5th or 6th of september, contact me pr
thx
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Scott on August 16, 2005, 02:10:23 PM
Can anyone tell me what part of the palace the foundation stones shown in the photos linked above represent?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Tania+ on August 18, 2005, 11:22:04 PM
Scott,
Just got to this particular site and the picture link to spala.pl. Never been there but when I opened the page, my eyes just took in the breathless beauty of the place. I especially loved : las_spala.jpg; kosciulek.jpg; kosciul_zima.jpt; mieszkania.jpg; pilical.jpg; pilica_z.jpg; staw.jpg, and stawz.jpg. Thank you so much.

Tania
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: amedeo on August 30, 2005, 09:30:49 AM
Can anyone tell me where the tsars private rooms were?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: nikks on September 04, 2005, 05:04:56 AM
I think they were on the first floor.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Stanczyk on March 17, 2006, 11:34:33 AM
Quote
:)Greetings, everybody.
  What about the Royal Castle in Warsaw? Has it ever been one of the Romanov residenses in Poland? If not, what was the Castle's fate when Poland became a part of Russian Empire?
   And also about the Palace of Belveder in Warsaw. Any Romanovs' connections? I believe I have read  that the Belveder in warsaw was at one time GD Konstantine's (Pavlovich) Residence. Any Romanovs at the Belveder after him?


I don’t remember anything about Belweder palace in Warsaw, but Lazienki palace was bought by Russian Imperial family. The  Royal Castle, Ujazdow and Saxonian Palace were  also under Russian “protectorate”. In result, It was the catastrophe for Polish culture - Russian monarchy took a lot  of treasures from Polish art heritage.  It was started by confiscation of Zaluski library (the core of S-Petersburg public library) and have been continuing during XIX century. That’s why a lot of art treasures from Lazienki  and Royal castle came to Russia.    For details, look the article of baron Vrangel in “Starye gody” – “Art and czar Nicolas I” .  All the picture of Polish origin (like, for examples, pastel portraits of Louis Marteau, or oil portraits of Poniatowski family  by Bacciarelli  Nicolas I ordered to burn down !!!!!!), the foreign  (like Fragonard, Kaufmann or van der Gelder) now in Hermitage.  

I don'  remember anut
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Eurohistory on March 22, 2006, 10:32:47 AM
I am headed to Poland at the invitation of Schloß Pless for the opening of an exhibition on European royalty this Spring...I will also visit Schloß Fürstenstein.  I am so very tempted to spend an extra couple of days in poland visiting what is left of the Romanov presence!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: frimousse on March 23, 2006, 12:04:07 PM
HUNTING in SPALA
Behind Nicholas, GD Wladimir and his wife Marie Pavlovna (1894)

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/Spala.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Svetabel on April 23, 2006, 10:08:20 AM
The interiors of the Belovezh palace. Probably now  these are tne only photos of the Palace's rooms. Possibly the pictures were taken in 1900.

The Sitting room of Their Majesties


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/sitroom.jpg)


The Working Study of the Emperor

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/studyemperor.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Svetabel on April 23, 2006, 10:10:25 AM
The Working Study of the Empress

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/studyempress.jpg)

The Billiard Room

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/billard.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Svetabel on April 23, 2006, 10:16:38 AM
The Dining Room

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/dineroom.jpg)

Somewhere in the Imperial Family Forum I had posted a painting by Zichy of the dinner in THIS dining room..
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: BobG on April 23, 2006, 01:31:15 PM
Svetabel,
You did post here:
Quote
One more sketch of the Imperial family.
Here is a painting by M.Zichy portraying a family dinner in Spala in August 1894.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/spala1894august.jpg)

We see Alexander III's back,his spouse MF and Tsesarevitch Nikolay are to his right. In front of Nikolay is GD Georgiy, his brother.To Alexander's left  is sitting GDss Maria Pavlovna-elder. GD Vladimir is coming down the steps.

but the location was identified as Spala.  Clearly from the Photo, it is Bielovez.

But, once again thank you for both posts.  We continue to learn from you through your many wonderful photos and postings.

BobG
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Svetabel on April 23, 2006, 03:00:37 PM
Yes, the dining room is identified as Spala's in the book of Zichy's paintings (I checked once again). :-/
Now I think the room was definitely in Bielovezh, as the photos are from reliable source.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on October 21, 2006, 09:42:50 PM
Here are incredible photographs of Bielowiez c1895:

http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001883104
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001883118
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001883132


Bielowiez Imperial Station:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2008177990
 
All photos of 1895 Album:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001883132

Bielowiez c1897:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2007807933
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2007808143
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2007808317

All photos of 1897 Album:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2007806663

Joanna
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on October 21, 2006, 10:03:08 PM
Do you want to see amazing photographs of Spala's station with the Imperial train?

Spala Imperial Station 1897:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001874617
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001875219
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001875233
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001875261

Spala Hunting Palace:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001875569
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001875583

All photos of 1897 album with views of the drive from the station to the palace:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001800094

Album c1890 with panoramic view of Spala complex:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2008048792

All photos of 1890 album:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2008046437

Joanna
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Arleen on October 24, 2006, 01:13:55 PM
Joanna, these photographs are priceless.  I had no idea that anything like this existed.....I've spent an hour looking thru the links you posted.  What collection are these from?

I especially like the pictures with people in them and horses and carriages and etc.  There is such a good one of Alexandra from the back that I love, you can see exactly how she did her hair.  I've only seen her from the front or side.

You are so kind to post these for us!
A
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Sarushka on November 04, 2006, 07:08:30 AM
  There is such a good one of Alexandra from the back that I love, you can see exactly how she did her hair.  I've only seen her from the front or side.
Can you post a direct link to that photo, Arleen?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: amelia on November 04, 2006, 08:55:09 AM
What happened to Spala?

Amelia
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Svetabel on November 04, 2006, 10:12:56 AM
What happened to Spala?

Amelia

In the 1920s-1930s Palace in Spala was a summer residence of the Polish presidents.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: RVarsky on March 28, 2007, 08:20:00 AM
Does anyone know whether the imperial hunting lodge at Spala, in Poland, still exists, and, if so, what is its status?  Is it preserved as an historical site, is it privately owned?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gdudzinski on April 02, 2007, 11:08:41 AM
An interesting question, to which I too would like to know the answer!

My paternal grandfather, Józef Dudzinski, was manager of the Tsar's estate at Spala probably from the early 1880s until 1910... The earliest document I have is dated 1871, so it could be that he started working for the Tsar even sooner.

Unfortunately, most of the contemporary documents I have are in Russian and either handwritten or in a handwritten typeface, and I can just barely follow some of the Russian from its similarity to Polish. Quite a number start  of them off with "Bozheyu milostyu, my, Nikolai Vtoryi, Impertaor i Samoderzhets Vserossiyskiy, Tsar Polskiy, Velikiy Knyaz Finlandskiy,...", and it would be nice to know what they say thereafter.

I'm trying to find someone to translate them for me or at least give me the gist.

However, I would be very interested in finding a photo or painting of the Spala hunting lodge. I've not been able to find more than fragments of the place on this website or elsewhere.



Sadly, there's no longer anyone else to ask, as everyone from my father's generation and beyond has now died. And as for my grandfather, I never met him as he died after being kicked in the head by one of the Tsar's horses! (I have the bill for his funeral: 46.60 roubles)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Douglas on April 02, 2007, 01:53:01 PM
No, the Spala Hunting Lodge that was located in Poland no longer exists. 
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gdudzinski on April 04, 2007, 11:26:13 AM
Thanks very much for finding the photo, Reco. I found some more interesting ones on the same website. There's even a good chance that my grandfather is in some of them, but I've no idea what he looked like at the time -- especially wearing a hat. The only photos I have from him date back to soon after he was married...
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: TheAce1918 on April 04, 2007, 07:13:45 PM
I haven't a photo of Spala in years, and looking back on it, for an imperial hunting lodge...it isn't as grand as I expected it to be.  Still, it is a very good looking building.  Its a shame that it had suffered such a fate.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on June 06, 2007, 06:25:47 PM
In 1912,after a hunt,Nicholas and Dimitri his nephew:

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/nicolasetdimitri1912bielowej.jpg)

Vassili
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: ChristineM on June 07, 2007, 04:24:00 AM
Thank goodness these days are past.   This is a horrible photograph, but typical of the 'entertainment' of the time.   This still goes on at Balmoral, but is not photographed (there would be an outcry) and not to this excess.

Thanks for posting it Vassili.

tsaria
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on December 05, 2007, 07:36:12 AM
The interiors of the Belovezh palace. Probably now  these are tne only photos of the Palace's rooms. Possibly the pictures were taken in 1900.

Interesting to see these posted, as they are really rare!
There are actually a few more interior photos still available at Bialowieza itself, in the gatehouse exhibition at the site of the lodge, and on CD. You can see some of them here: -

http://www.directarticle.org/Bialowieza_visits.html

This is part of an article by Greg King and me, which starts here: -

http://www.directarticle.org/bialowieza_contents.html

we laid the contents page out to represent a plan of the estate (so you can see more or less what it was like from the air), with links to the relevant sections, and I think we have more info assembled there than anywhere else online, certainly in English.

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on December 08, 2007, 07:01:35 AM
I print all the articles of the website to keep safe to any web changes...

Thoses shots and comments are priceless!

Thank you so much!
Vassili
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on December 08, 2007, 01:12:09 PM
Thank you very much, Janet!! :)

I hope you'll be able to find the floor plans, one day.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on December 13, 2007, 03:42:36 AM
And someday that someone, decide to recontruct what is after all part of polish history...

v
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Norbert on January 14, 2008, 04:32:31 PM
The photo is the old building. Nicholas II rebuilt it as a great gothic castle. If i can find the magazine there was an article in Royalty Digest some years ago
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on January 15, 2008, 02:52:53 AM
The photo is the old building. Nicholas II rebuilt it as a great gothic castle. If i can find the magazine there was an article in Royalty Digest some years ago

Really? I did not know, so Nicholas and Alix did not use that building, is that correct?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on January 17, 2008, 01:40:53 PM
The photo is the old building. Nicholas II rebuilt it as a great gothic castle. If i can find the magazine there was an article in Royalty Digest some years ago

Really? I did not know, so Nicholas and Alix did not use that building, is that correct?

I think there might be some confusion here, and as I am one of the authors of the article I THINK is alluded to here (I'm not aware that RD ever published another on Spala) perhaps I can clarify. The "great Gothic castle" was at Bialowieza, as alluded to in other threads. The house at Spala pictured in this thread is indeed the one that Nicholas and Alexandra used. It was built by Alexander III and is in the style known in Poland as "Zakopanskim" - indeed, it reminds me of a horrid hotel in Zakopane I once stayed in, which smelled of rotting food..... the house at Spala, like Bialowieza, is no longer there, but the site is a training ground for Olympic athletes.
The article I think Norbert is talking about is "It was heavenly in the forest: hunting in Poland with the two last Tsars", the authors of which are Greg King and me. It was published in Royalty Digest Quarterly in 2006.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on January 17, 2008, 02:09:36 PM
Thank you for clarifying the point.

In fact I was a little confused, even becouse, if I am right, Spala and Bialowieza were not particularly nearby.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on January 18, 2008, 07:11:44 AM
Thank you for clarifying the point.

In fact I was a little confused, even becouse, if I am right, Spala and Bialowieza were not particularly nearby.

Yes - Spala is south of Warsaw, whereas Bialowieza is in the east, and in the Tsarist period - after the Third Partition - was technically a part of Russia (as opposed to Russian-occupied Poland, the Congress Kingdom, which became fully Russian only after the Uprising of 1830 and is culturally different to the eastern areas)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on January 18, 2008, 08:26:34 PM
Although off-topic somewhat as this relates to Bialowieza, it may assist forum members to access the incredible work of Janet Ashton, Greg King and other authors with links to their treasure trove of articles:
http://www.directarticle.org/
Authors/Articles:
http://www.directarticle.org/Contents.html
Bialowieza:
http://www.directarticle.org/bialowieza_contents.html

Amazing scope of historical research! And the travelogues of Sue Woolmans were a treat to discover! How I would love to read a new one every month!

Joanna








Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on January 19, 2008, 08:54:58 AM
Although off-topic somewhat as this relates to Bialowieza, it may assist forum members to access the incredible work of Janet Ashton, Greg King and other authors with links to their treasure trove of articles:
http://www.directarticle.org/
Authors/Articles:
http://www.directarticle.org/Contents.html
Bialowieza:
http://www.directarticle.org/bialowieza_contents.html

Amazing scope of historical research! And the travelogues of Sue Woolmans were a treat to discover! How I would love to read a new one every month!

Joanna



thanks for the heads-up - it's nice that people enjoy it and find it useful.

Sue is a very funny, well-informed and entertaining writer, but some of her travelogues pre-date digital cameras so she has to scan the pics as and when - and this is why it is taking a while to get them all up. Hopefully there will be another site update before too long, as Will Lee has been working on an article based on Dmitri Pavlovich's diaries for some time now, and this would be a very unique and exciting addition. I am also hoping for another new author, who has been translating and annotating the letters sent by various politicians to Alexandra during the war - very new and fascinating stuff, previously published only in Russian - so I hope that will be up someday as his other work writing and teaching alllows.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Alixz on January 20, 2008, 01:55:29 AM
Amazing photographs.

I had the impression that Spala was deep in the forest and surrounded by trees so thick that the sun rarely, if ever, got through.  From the picture it looks to have been quite out in the open.

It is not the classically beautiful imperial residence, but then it was intended for a hunting lodge and therefore looks more "rustic".

Thank you everyone for all the information and the links.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Arleen on January 20, 2008, 02:24:39 PM
Joanna, I am so grateful that you let us know about these wonderful sites of Janet Ashton's and all of the others.  I had no idea they were out there.  I admire Janet Ashton and Greg Kings work highly. 

I am really looking foreward to the article of William Lee's about Dimitri P.

The photographs on these sites are so wonderful!

Arleen
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on August 15, 2008, 01:18:50 PM
A view of Spala c1920s-1930s when a residence of Polish Presidents - Alexandra's balcony on the left was retained in those years:

http://www.spala.pl/historia/rez_p_prez.jpg

Joanna

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on December 25, 2008, 11:29:13 AM
Hello,

As I have gathered from the previous discussions, some of you were interested in what happened to these places after WWI i.e. who owns them now etc. The point is that I live some 60 km from Spala and 55-60 km from Skierniewice, and I `ve also been to Bialowieza.I`m also interested in history, and , incidentally, I write for a Russian magazine in oland, and I `ve published a series of articles on these mansions hence I can tell a lot about these places. I will also enclose some pictures(as soon as I learn how to do it).
1.Spala. between the IWW and IIWW this place served as a residence for Polish presidents. They often went hunting here. They also organized an annual harvest festiwal in September when the authorities thanked farmers for their job. Farmers proudly resented their achievements.
Durinh WWII the German established their headquaarters here. In 1945, when the Soviet army was rapidly advancing, the hunting lodge , which was wooden, was burnt down during one of the battles. They say, however, that the palace was deliberately burnt town. A Soviet officer ordered to set fire to the house of the tzars. I have no idea which version is correct as there is no plausible evidence.
With the arrival of socialism, the authorities established a resort for the working class. Their stay here was partially finanaced by the  government. After the overthrow of communism, this resort changed its owner but people love coming here though it seems weird that the authorities of the resort do not use this fact to promote tourism and to show this place to tourists. Also, the Olympic centre is located here where polish sportsmen train and live.
Many objects have been preserved. Alexandra Fedorovna`s glasshouse (for flowers) has been transformed into a pension. The house next to this one (her carriages were kept here) houses a drugstore and a cafe. Hunting trophies (horns) hang on the wallls of a restaurant POD ZUBREM. there is also the former hotel fot the tzar`s guests- it is a resort as well. There are also some small houses from those times. In the woods, there is a hill made of stones commemorating the last visit of Alexander III, two stones have the engravings with the dates of the last huntings, before his journey to Livadia. There is also a road to the next village built at the time of Nikolay II. Anyone interestted? I will gladly answer your questions.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Douglas on December 25, 2008, 11:16:10 PM
I would be most interested in the exact location of Spala  because I want to locate it on Google Earth.  If anyone forum member also knows, please post it.  I would appreciate it.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Douglas on December 26, 2008, 12:02:06 AM
I was able to find Spala on Google Earth but they do not yet have a clear ground picture of that area.  Spala appears to be on Highway 48 in Poland. 
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on December 26, 2008, 07:35:45 AM
Some more info on Poland. Bialowieza is situated in the very east of Poland, near Polish-Byelorusian boreder. The palace does not exist of course. It was burnt in fire in 1962. Now they built the museum of nature on its site. The brick  gate was preserved. There is also a church of St. Nicholas with the china altar ( the only one in Poland). Alexander III financed its building because the previous one was in a dilapidated condition. The tzar died in the course of its building , and the first service was conducted a year after his death. They say, that they had a wonderfu choir here, and the tzar`s family and guests loved listening to it. There remains the building of the former goverenr where Alexander II used to stay. the former railway staton built especially for Nikolay II now houses the restaurant in "the tzar-like " style. The building was in a horrible condition but there arrived some enthusiasts who transformed it into a decent restaurant serving Russian cuisine.

As for Spala, it is on highway 48. it is situated north-west of Warsaw, the nearest town is Tomaszow Mazowiecki, e km from Spala. Spala is atiny place with only approx 400 inhabitants that is why it`s so difficult to finf it on a map.   
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Forum Admin on December 26, 2008, 10:13:43 AM
Violetta has some photos of these places as they are today, but is unable to access the photo uploading sites. Can anyone out there volunteer to upload and post them for her? If so, please contact her by pm or email.

Thanks
FA
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on January 04, 2009, 02:42:24 PM
Violetta,

You could send it to my mail, as soon as pmy exams would be finished, I would take time to post it on the forum.

Greetings,
Vassia
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on February 14, 2009, 02:26:59 PM
I found it very  interesting even if I don't speak polish

http://www.artbiznes.pl/jsp/artbiznes/artykuly.jsp?Id=1&IdArtykulu=1491&Typ=detal (http://www.artbiznes.pl/jsp/artbiznes/artykuly.jsp?Id=1&IdArtykulu=1491&Typ=detal)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Reco on February 14, 2009, 05:16:08 PM
(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5397/0map05xi5.th.jpg) (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0map05xi5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Douglas on February 14, 2009, 07:58:27 PM
Gleb:

For translations you can go to the Google Translation site and it will translate any webpage in  seconds.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on February 15, 2009, 04:49:26 AM


Wow! Both of these are great sites - I have never seen a picture of the kitchen before and there is also another sitting room here that I don't think I have ever seen - certainly don't own it at any rate, though there are a number of pictures in the gatehouse museum at Bialowieza which haven't been reproduced anywhere else yet, so it could be one of those.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on February 16, 2009, 11:16:00 AM


Wow! Both of these are great sites - I have never seen a picture of the kitchen before and there is also another sitting room here that I don't think I have ever seen - certainly don't own it at any rate, though there are a number of pictures in the gatehouse museum at Bialowieza which haven't been reproduced anywhere else yet, so it could be one of those.

yes the kitchen is wonderful but also the bedroom and bath of the Imperial couple are very rare to me.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on February 16, 2009, 11:18:55 AM
http://audiovis.nac.gov.pl/images/search/Białowieża (http://audiovis.nac.gov.pl/images/search/Białowieża)

There is even this other website, probably the photos could get larger but I don't speak polish and I don't know how to register.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on April 13, 2009, 08:38:56 AM
Palace in Skiernewice
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5443/paaccarski1917rskiernie.jpg)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4086/paackiedyskier.jpg)

Palace during WWI
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4426/paac1skierduringww1.jpg)
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8296/paac1917skier.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on April 13, 2009, 09:07:44 AM
Thank you so much!!!!! I've never seen those before. I wonder if there are interior shots of the place? And, would anyone know the exact location of Skiernewice back then?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on April 13, 2009, 09:19:11 AM
All those pictures are from here: http://www.skierniewice.com.pl/Galerie/tabid/118/AlbumID/471-1223/Default.aspx

I'll try to find some interior shots of the palace. :)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on April 14, 2009, 08:09:38 AM
Imperial palace in Bialowieza

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4408/biaowiea7.jpg)

(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8317/biaowiea11.jpg)

(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8462/biaowiea13.jpg)

(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4718/biaowie19.jpg)

(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2179/biaowiea3.jpg)

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/957/biaowiea9.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Paola on April 14, 2009, 08:27:18 AM
In which floor was the room where little Princess Elisabeth stayed (and died) in the tragic holidays in 1903?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on April 14, 2009, 11:35:18 AM
Aglaya, were those pictures from the Romanov era or post WWI?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on April 14, 2009, 01:30:23 PM
I'm not 100% sure but I think that all these photos were taken before WWI [the end of XIX c., early 1900's].

(http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/359/biaowiea12.jpg)

(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9139/biaowie22.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: gleb on April 16, 2009, 01:12:28 PM
Wonderful photos. Thank you very much
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on April 19, 2009, 11:05:30 AM
House of Prince - GD Mikhail Alexandrovich's residence in Częstochowa.
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8512/domwksiecia1915.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 08, 2009, 04:55:13 PM
Dear Aglaya,you`ve posted a photo of Mikhail aleksandrovivh`s ppalace in czestochowa.i was searching for some info in poland where i live. i didn`t find any.could you help me and say afew words about the sources where i could learn more?thanks a lot in advance!
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on May 09, 2009, 08:19:41 AM
Dear Violetta, I found information about that residence in Częstochowa on Wikipedia:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_Ksi%C4%99cia
Picture I've been posted comes from small gallery: http://www.foto.czestochowaonline.pl/domksiecia.php

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on May 09, 2009, 08:26:09 AM
Palace in Skierniewice today
(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/7954/269054.jpg)

One of the interior shots of the palace
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8485/269055.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 09, 2009, 05:09:58 PM
dear aglaya

thanks a lot.ou can`t even imagine how greatful i am!!! :)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Olgasha on May 10, 2009, 08:29:44 AM
I'm happy I could help you. :-)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 26, 2009, 02:00:07 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0036.jpg)

a special room where royal hunters changed their clothes before/after hunting
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 26, 2009, 02:10:12 PM
the former gate.now it doesn`t serve as a gate because the park around the palace has been made public

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0047.jpg)


the library. everything is original except for the furniture

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0025.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 26, 2009, 02:20:30 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0022.jpg)

the original fireplace.it used to be a billiard room but now it serves as a secretary`s office of the agricultural institute



(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0018.jpg)


the ceiling in the same room.the goddess has the face of jonna grudzinska


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0041.jpg)

the garden
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 26, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
if you have a closer look you`ll see the imperial egle.

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0030.jpg)

at last i know how to post pictures! it seemed to be SO difficult but it`s not ;) the pictures were taken by me in july,2007
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 26, 2009, 03:09:30 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala/DSCN0125.jpg)

this is the hotel in spala where royal guests used to stop.it`s  a resort now.i stayed there from 30.04-03.05 this year



(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala/DSCN0052.jpg)


this is the house of the former imperial cossack guard
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 27, 2009, 12:32:55 PM
royal trophies from spala

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala/DSCN0116.jpg)

more trophies

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0110.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0113.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on May 27, 2009, 05:29:13 PM
Thank you for sharing violetta!!! :) I really enjoyed your pics especially from Skerniewice. I've always imagined Skerniewice as a gloomy dark place an the palace there must be as well. But thanks to your pics, it dispeled my thoughts of how Skerniewice.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 28, 2009, 06:40:20 AM
You`re welcome,Condecontessa !

Some more pictures of Spala (now AT LAST I know how to post pictures so I` ll do this quite often ;))

alexander III`s stone,this is where he hinted,look at the date-just a few weeks before his death

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala/DSCN0075.jpg)



alexandra fedorovna`s orangerie (now a small resort)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala/DSCN0086.jpg)


one more picture of the imperial hotel

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala/DSCN0085.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 28, 2009, 06:44:52 AM
the English garden in Spala-I love sitting there on a bench with a book in the evening!!!!

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala/DSCN0123.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 28, 2009, 10:44:07 AM
Thank you for sharing violetta!!! :) I really enjoyed your pics especially from Skerniewice. I've always imagined Skerniewice as a gloomy dark place an the palace there must be as well. But thanks to your pics, it dispeled my thoughts of how Skerniewice.

Yes,skierniwice palace and the premises are lovely.the palace houses a scientific institution-an agricultural institute.one can v isit it on prior arrangement. after i`ve seen the palace  i too k a walk around the lovely garden.it was a sunny july afternoon, the flowers were blooming.and the grass had the most wonderful smell after having being exposed to the sun.paradise-like garden. in the former palace park (now a pubic garden) there is a small lovely pond...i`m not at all surprised that the romanovs chose it for their hunting residence...
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 28, 2009, 11:18:11 AM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0101.jpg)

the royal road.aleksandra fedorovna used to go around spala along this road  in a carriage.

this is what remained of the palace :( it was destroyed or,to be precise, burnt in january 1945. according to one version, it was accidentaly burnt becuse of heavy fire.according to the other version, a soviet officer ordered to BURN it after he had learnt it was the tzar`s residence. no one is able to say for certain what happened in january 1945.

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0082.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 28, 2009, 12:11:53 PM
BELOVEZH

the gate leading to the non-existent palace

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/belovezh/DSCN0487.jpg)


former stables,now a hostel

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0491.jpg)


this is just a picture of bialovezh-beutiful,  litttle melancholic,nature


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0506.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Elle on June 03, 2009, 01:21:42 PM
Did the Imperial family during the 19th century ever own or visit palaces in the Krakow area?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Svetabel on June 04, 2009, 12:42:48 AM
The members of the Imperial family didn't own the palaces in the Krakow area. But probably they visited Wawel.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: xirbis on June 05, 2009, 12:29:14 PM
Krakow and surroundings was not a part of Russian Empire. It was under the Habsburgs.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 14, 2009, 06:53:23 PM
another view of the spala residence, pictures taken after WWI after which the residence became the offiicil residenc ef Polish presidents, courtesy of the National Digital Archives in Warsaw. the 2nd picture taken in 1924.
the 3d one is a celebration of corpus christi - a parade in front of the residence

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/generalview.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/generalview.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/corpuschristi1935.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 14, 2009, 07:12:17 PM
sorry,i posted two identical pictures.correcting my mistake

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/corpuschristi1935.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 14, 2009, 07:14:35 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/generalview19181924.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 14, 2009, 07:21:19 PM
interior of the spala palace, a reading room


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/areadingroom.jpg)


a bedroom

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/bedroom.jpg)


terrace

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/terrace.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 15, 2009, 04:06:15 PM
PICTURES OF A SO CALLED WHITE LIVING ROOM i( FROM THE NATIONAL DIGITAL ARCHIVES IN WARSAW), THESE PICTURES SEEM TO BE ALMOST IDENTCAL BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT, IN FACT


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/whitelivingroom.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/whitesalon.jpg)



Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: BobG on July 16, 2009, 07:03:59 AM
Violetta,
Thanks for sharing these wonderful pictures of Spala.  I hadn't seen the interiors before.  My imagination had the interiors much more rustic and simple than the "White Living Room" pictures show them to have been.  Any more??
Thanks again.
BobG
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 16, 2009, 05:48:45 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/anothernamelessroom.jpg)
 


in the archives it was dubbed "one of the rooms".




this monument was initially erected in belovezha,during the reign of alexander III. after the october revolution it was moved to the soviet union but finally the soviets returned it but it was placed in spala.

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/asculpture.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: senorita on August 18, 2009, 07:00:07 AM
I read about HISTORY OF THE IMPERIAL RUSSIAN DYNASTY in http://www.chivalricorders.org/. Which have nice information as well. This is very good information to share with everyone. I read about The Great Country Houses of Poland (http://www.infibeam.com/Books/info/Michael-Pratt/The-Great-Country-Houses-of-Poland/0789208903.html) in book but this is the new thing which i read about. Thanks for nice information. Keep sharing valuable information.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 14, 2009, 03:52:16 PM
entrance to the residence in skierniewitse - courtesy of the Historical Chamber of Skierniewitse

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac1c.jpg)



the church situated on the premises of the skierniewitse residence ( it doesn`t exist now)-courtesy of the Historical Chamber of Skierniewitse

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/cerkiewmala.jpg)


an old picture of the palace - courtesy of the Historical Chamber of Skierniewitse


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac1.jpg)


Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 15, 2009, 07:34:21 AM
the imperial couple arrives at skierniewitse, 1901, in front of the railway station building (non -existent now) - from the chamber of history of skierniewitse

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/car.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 15, 2009, 08:02:05 AM
the 3 emperors - alexander 3, wilhem 1 and franz jozef- at a summit in skiernewitse, 1884, in front of the palace

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/zjazd.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on September 15, 2009, 02:57:10 PM
Violetta,

Thanks so much for sharing the pics. I've never seen a pic of Skiernewitse during the Imperial reign. That's amazing. I've only read it being described in books. Again, thanks for the wonderful posts.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 15, 2009, 04:51:19 PM
Condecontessa,

you are welcome. some moe pictues of skierniewitse.have fun!!!


orthodox church in skierniewitse, military church for 31th Alexopolskiy regiment stationed here

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/cerkiew1.jpg)

the sAme church

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/cerkiew1a.jpg)

general view of the town

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/widokmiasta.jpg)


another picture of the palace

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac1a.jpg)



Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on September 17, 2009, 09:26:01 AM
Was Skierniewice considered a "Destination" town back then?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 17, 2009, 07:46:16 PM
Was Skierniewice considered a "Destination" town back then?

Condecontessa,

i`m not sure what you mean by "destination" town? i`d be pleased to answer your question if you clarify your question
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on September 19, 2009, 09:33:28 AM
Sorry, here goes:

Is it like a tourist spot for aristocrats back then?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 28, 2009, 04:51:10 PM
Sorry, here goes:

Is it like a tourist spot for aristocrats back then?

Condecontessa, sorry for answering you question so late but i was in spala for a few days for a short break and i didn`t have my computer with me


Skierniewitse was a pat of the Lovitch Kindom in Poland. Lovitch played an enormous role in Poland as it was a centre of the catholic life, there were residences of the highest church officials there.those officials, in order to stress their position, decided to build new residences around lovitch, includin thje one in skierniewitse.  in the course of time the role of lovitch dicreased (e.g. due to the fires that destroyed the town) and church officials decided to move to skierniewitse and they were gradually improving the condition of the residence

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 29, 2009, 06:35:41 PM
In which floor was the room where little Princess Elisabeth stayed (and died) in the tragic holidays in 1903?

little elizabeth died in skierniewitse but i don`t know which room it was.and i`m afraid that the employees of the agricultural institute that  is now situated in the former residence don`t know this either
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 30, 2009, 06:25:00 PM
just a few more details about skierniewitse residence. during napoleonic wars napoleon gave it to his famous field marshal davout. when after the vienna congress they created the polish kingdom.grand duke constantine was appointed the commander of the polish troops but he was the ACTUAL ruler of the kingdom. one of key tasks of gd constantine was the refrm and modernization of the polish army.he succeded in this task and alexander 1 presented him with the lovittch duchy (spala and skierniewitse were in this duchy).  in the same document the tsar granted the title of the princess of lovitch to joanna grudzinska,the morganatic wife of gd constantine.

but it was quite a long time before  constantine could stay in his residence in skierniewitse because during the war both french and russian trops stationed there so the condition of the palace was far from great.  russian troops left the palace in1821, in 1829 constantine started to renovate the residence as he planned to make it another residence of the imperial family ( contrary to some descriptions in this forum, skierniewitse isn`t situated on the outskirts of warsaw.i`m not sure how far it is from warsaw but it takes 50 minutes to get there by train from warsaw central railway station).

after the death of constantine, his wife inherited lovitch duchy.she however in her last will renounced her rights to this property explaining that she married the grand duke not for the sake of getting richer or improving the material condition of her family.hence,according to her last will expressed in tsarskooe selo, lovitch duchy was to be inherited by the polish king "whoever he is going to be". according to her last will, this property couldn`t be sold. the executor of her will was tsar nikolay 1.

nikolay 1 inherited skierniewitse in 1839. the period from 1838 to 1855 was one of the best in the entire history of skierniewitse.

TO BE CONTINUED
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on October 30, 2009, 08:21:40 PM
alexander 3 depats fo hunting in spala

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DepartureofAlexanderIIIforhunting.jpg)


evening in spala, mariya feodorovna third from the right

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/VechervSpalevovremiazakatasolntsa.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 03, 2009, 08:20:04 PM

i decided to post some pictures to show skiernniewice hunting lodge now and then i.e. before world war I, at tzar`s times

skierniewice palace now and then - general view

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/PL_39_606_M-IS-17_31.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac1-1.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac-widokogolny.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 03, 2009, 08:24:37 PM
the former gate - now and then


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0047-1.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/PL_39_606_M-IS-24_61.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on November 03, 2009, 09:59:05 PM
Thanks violetta for sharing. Would you happen to have an old map showing the location of the hunting lodges in Poland during the Romanov era?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 04, 2009, 03:14:17 AM
unfortunately not.but it`s easy to find them on the map of modern poland
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 04, 2009, 04:51:05 PM
the same room in skierniewitse palace-now and then. the room where on the ceiling there is a picture of enus with the face of joanna grudzinska, the wife of grand duke constantine pavlovich

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0018-1.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/DSCN0022-1.jpg)



P.S. I posted 2 of these pictures a coupe of months ago but this time i`m trying to compare the interior of the room.
the archival photo comes from the city archives in lodz, poland
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 08, 2009, 10:32:09 AM

skierniewitse-orangerie  before 1914

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/oranzeria1.jpg)

and now

 - a fragment(2007)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/orangerie.jpg)


Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 10, 2009, 02:40:22 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/PL_39_606_W-I2-3_21.jpg)

nikolay 2 and alexanda feodorovna - parade in spala
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 23, 2009, 08:20:28 AM
spala,the interior of the palace

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00184009.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00184010.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on November 24, 2009, 05:20:08 AM


spala.


probably,i should post these pictures in NIKOLAY II PHOTOES but I`m so much attached to spala and its history ;)....i go there a few times a year.


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194003.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194004.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194005.jpg)



(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194007.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on December 02, 2009, 03:12:43 PM
SPALA

the palace is on the left and the hotel SAVOY is on the right

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00214011.jpg)


the palace
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194006.jpg)


the palace
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00214010.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Douglas on December 03, 2009, 01:53:39 PM
Thank you for these photos Violetta, they are always interesting.  I found the location of this place on Google Earth. I post here a cleaned up version of the picture you posted. I think I see someone looking out of a window at the left in the second storey of the mansion.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/00194004.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on December 03, 2009, 04:18:10 PM
Thank you for these photos Violetta, they are always interesting.  I found the location of this place on Google Earth. I post here a cleaned up version of the picture you posted. I think I see someone looking out of a window at the left in the second storey of the mansion.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/00194004.jpg)

To tell the truth Douglas I haven`t noticed that someone  was looking out of the window. thanks for drawing my attention.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on December 03, 2009, 04:47:10 PM
a page from the album-spala

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204001.jpg)


in the upper middle picture (ACCORDING TO THE INSCRIPTION) there are fredericks and drenteln.unfortunately, this handwriting is illigible so i can`t read who else is in this picture.any help?

and a bigger version


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204003.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on December 20, 2009, 03:09:32 PM
the page from the spala album

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194008-1.jpg)


nikolay2,his 4 daughters and irene of prussia - the entrance to the palace

IMG]http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194012-1.jpg[/IMG]
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on January 24, 2010, 03:46:13 AM
some more pictures of spala residence

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00184002.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00184012.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on March 19, 2010, 03:36:16 AM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00184008-1.jpg)


one more page from the beincke spala album
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on March 27, 2010, 10:53:03 AM
a few more pictures of spala

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00184001.jpg)



(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194008-2.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00214009.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00214013.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on April 26, 2010, 12:59:29 PM
a few more spala pictures:

i can telll who is who in this picture.any help?thanks in advance

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on April 26, 2010, 01:06:15 PM
a few more photoes of spala.who are these military men? thanks for help in advance


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204007.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on April 26, 2010, 02:30:51 PM
hunting in spala, i think it could be1912.i`ve already posted some photoes taken in 1912.it makes me think that these pictures are also from 1912.

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204008.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204009.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204010.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204011.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on April 26, 2010, 02:41:34 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204012.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204013.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204014.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on April 26, 2010, 03:11:44 PM
a few more photoes of spala.who are these military men? thanks for help in advance


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204007.jpg)



Violetta,

These are the different people (better to say higher Officers, Generals and Functionaries) from the Nicholas II Svita, Court and closer to him. Btw, on the one photo we can see a lot of closer to N-II and powerfull people who played rather different, but serious roles in the Empire's end (Rasputin, Stavka and so on..).

Only the main: first from the left - Fligel Adjutant/Colonel Daragan, second - Major General of Svita/Head of HIM Office Duke Orlov, third - Minister of the Court/General Adjutant Count Fredericks, fifth - Fligel Adjutant/Colonel and Stab Officer of Court Drenteln, seventh - Court Doctor and Actual State Councillor Botkin


Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on April 26, 2010, 03:46:30 PM
a few more photoes of spala.who are these military men? thanks for help in advance


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204007.jpg)



Violetta,

These are the different people (better to say higher Officers, Generals and Functionaries) from the Nicholas II Svita, Court and closer to him. Btw, on the one photo we can see a lot of closer to N-II and powerfull people who played rather different, but serious roles in the Empire's end (Rasputin, Stavka and so on..).

Only the main: first from the left - Fligel Adjutant/Colonel Daragan, second - Major General of Svita/Head of HIM Office Duke Orlov, third - Minister of the Court/General Adjutant Count Fredericks, fifth - Fligel Adjutant/Colonel and Stab Officer of Court Drenteln, seventh - Court Doctor and Actual State Councillor Botkin





Nikola,thanks a lot.the only person that i was able to recognize was count fredericks
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on April 26, 2010, 03:57:49 PM
a few more pictures

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204013.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204014.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204015.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204016.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on April 26, 2010, 04:04:19 PM
It looks like the Empress is with her sister Princess Irene in the carriage. They must have been visiting the Tsar during a hunt. Wonder if it was before Tsarevich Alexei's accident or during?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on April 26, 2010, 04:09:11 PM
It looks like the Empress is with her sister Princess Irene in the carriage. They must have been visiting the Tsar during a hunt. Wonder if it was before Tsarevich Alexei's accident or during?

it is the Empress and her sister Irene. but i don`t know if it was before or after the "spala crisis". i think it might have been before cause such a dutiful mother as the empress would have never left her suffering boy for a hunting visit
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 17, 2010, 05:29:36 PM
the church in Belovezh. the picture was taken in September 2007.

the erection of the church was finished in 1895. the church was financed by the Romanov grand dukes and the Emperor Alexander III himself

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/st-nicholas-church.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 17, 2010, 06:45:13 PM
BELOVEZH


the former governor`s house,the oldest building in belovezh built in 1845.this is where alexander II stayed during hunting before the romanovs commisiioned the building of the imperial palace


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/governors-house.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 20, 2010, 05:38:03 AM
some more pictures of belovezh this time of the railway station where imperial train arrived

the construction of the railway connection to belovezh started in 1894 before the last visit of alexander III. When Nikolay II decided to visit belovezh in 1897 construction works were over  and his family could travel by train. they also built a station situated not far from the palace. the station was named BELOVEZHA-DVORETS (BELOVEZHA-PALACE).  the next station appeared in 1903 but it was for trains csrrying loads whereas BELOVEZHA-DVORETS was for passengers. in his way belovezh became connected to warsaw and bialystok (the nearest big town).
both stations existed until 1990s.in the 1990s railway connections to belovwh were liquidated because the authorities thought that this connection simply didn`t pay.BELOVEZHA-DVORETS  doesn`t exist any more, the other station was in a dilapidated condition. a few years ago a family couple bought this dilapidated building and renovated it.now they have a nice restaurant here.net to the restaurant there is a hotel (luurious and epensive). in this restaurant you can eat dishes of russian cuisine.


you will the building rom both sides. i was in belovezh almost 3 years ago.it was a rainy and cold september day so there were no customers outside

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/restoran2.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/restoran3.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/restoran1.jpg)


  (http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/restoran4.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 20, 2010, 05:41:21 AM
i also took photoes of the interior of the restaurant with samovars and portraits of the imperial family. i can postt these pictures if anyone woul like me to although I can see no historical value in them.but if anyone wants to see the interior i can post these pictures
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on May 20, 2010, 10:46:50 AM
Thanks violetta for the postings. Does the interior looks similar to its historical past or was it completely renovated?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 20, 2010, 04:12:51 PM
the interior is completely new.it has been thoroughly renovated. nothing reminds you of the past
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: pastpalacelife on May 21, 2010, 12:26:54 PM
I would like to see the interior pictures!  I think the building is still interesting and intriguing because the railray rails are still there.  Is the station the one for passengers or the other one?  Thanks Tracy
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 21, 2010, 04:40:15 PM
I would like to see the interior pictures!  I think the building is still interesting and intriguing because the railray rails are still there.  Is the station the one for passengers or the other one?  Thanks Tracy


Tracy,i can post inyerior pictures but the interiior is completely new, it has nothing in common with the historical one. this station wasn`t for passengers.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 23, 2010, 03:53:27 PM
palace in belovezh

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac_3.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/Palac_4.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac_5.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Condecontessa on May 24, 2010, 12:17:28 PM
Very much appreciated photos of Belovezh :) It's a shame it's rather small but big enough to enjoy. I find belovezh an elegant hunting lodge.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on May 26, 2010, 07:03:34 AM
the interior of the reastaurant in belovezh situated in the former imperial railway station

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/interior2.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/interior4.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/interior-1.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/interior-5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 01, 2010, 05:29:44 PM
a few photoes taken during the imperial family`s visit in 1912

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204005.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00204010-1.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00224010.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 02, 2010, 03:10:35 PM
pictures of a tent where they prayed or the health o the heir of the throne during spalaa crisis

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00194014.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/00224007.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 13, 2010, 10:47:47 AM
14.09.1886 Alexandrer III and Mariya Feodorovna, arrival to Spala

a group of local people including children in national polish costumes wait for the arrival of the emperor and the empress

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala-alexander3-1.jpg)


alexander 3 and the empress greet people.theyare in the background,quite far away,bbut you can easily see them

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spalaalexander3-4.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spalaalexander3-2.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spalaalexander3-3.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/spala-alexander3-5.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 19, 2010, 05:28:37 PM
arrival of nicolas and alexandra to spala,1897

their first visit after alexander iii`s death. during this stay nicolas wrote to his mother that rooms of "dear papa" looked the same as during alexande iii`s lifetime. he confessed that he missed "dear papa" so much.it was so strange for him to be in spala without his late father.

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/arrival1897.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on July 29, 2010, 10:29:08 AM
the imperial couple arrives in spala, 1897, 2more pictures


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/arrival3-1897-spala.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/arrival-2-1897.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 22, 2010, 07:10:39 AM
Belovezh was a popular hunting place for centuries. Many Polish kings hunted here e.g. Wladyslaw Jagiello hunted here as early as the 15th century. Jean Jacques Russo was so charmed by Belovezh and its forests that he even considered moving there.
The oldest object in Belovezh is a monumemnt commemorating hunting of the Polish king (or, to be precise, the elecot of SAxony) August III in 1752. On the monument there is a description of his hunting both in Polish and English

the picture of the monument taken before WW1, in the background you can see the oldest building in Belovezh-the former residence of the Grodno governor where e.g.Alexander II stayed

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/belovezhobelisk.jpg)


the picture taken in July 2010
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/030.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 22, 2010, 08:07:37 AM
In 1795, after the third partition of Poland, this territory started to belong to the Russian empire. But tthe imperial family wasn`t interested in these territories, and Belovezha forests were leased to prince Kutuzov for 50 years. During NApoleonic wars the forests were heavily destroyed, many of the buildings, including a small hunting lodge built by the last Polish king Stanislaw August  Poniatowski, were burnt.
It is fair to claim that these territories were neglected until 1888 when Belovezh and its forests became the personal   property of the Russian Emperor who ordered to take proper care of this area. The  first visit of the Russian Emperor Alexander II took place in 1860. Alexander II also invited some German princes to take part in hunting (what princes? any help?). As there was no proper residence yet, German guests stayed in the house of the German merchant while the Tzat stayed in the house of the governor of Grodno region built in 1845. Now it`s the oldest building in Belovezh.

the residence of the Grodnno governor before WWI

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/domgyberntora.jpg)

the house in the 1920s

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/domgybernatora1920e.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/domgybernatora.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 22, 2010, 09:11:58 AM
the pictures taken in july 2010

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/040.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/039-1.jpg)

the back of the house

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/029.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 22, 2010, 09:40:00 AM
the picture of the imperial hunting of 1860

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/alexanderii.jpg)

Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 22, 2010, 12:13:58 PM
one more picture of alexander ii`visit in 1860

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/alexander20ii201860.jpg)


inhabitants of belovzh and surrounding villages were invited for a party to commemorate the emperor`s visit


Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 22, 2010, 02:08:47 PM
this monument was erected in belovezh in 1862 to commemorate the emperor`s hunting in 1860

the monument before WW I

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/ZWIERZ1.jpg)

when the WW I started this monument was evacuated in accordance with nikolay II`s personal order.In 1915 it was taken to Moscow. After WW I the Polish government asked the Soviet government to return the monument. Initially, the monument was placed in front of the Royal Palace in Warsaw but in 1928 the Polish president moved it to Spala where Polish presidents hunted too.

the monument in Spala between the wars

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/zubrspalski.jpg)


During WW II the bizon remained intact though according to the local legend the Germans wanted to take it to Berlin. At the end of the 1980-s the authorities of Belovezh wanted to get the monument back but the locals of Spala organized a committee to protect the symbol of their place from moving to belovezh.

a modern picture of the bizon taken ian autumn 2009
 

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/006-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 27, 2010, 12:38:17 PM
in 1889 alexander 3 decided commissioned nicholas de rochefort to design and build a residence in belovezh. it took 5 years to build and cost 500 000 roubles.
i
- it consisted of 134 rooms
- alexander 3 specifically stated that he didn` t want gold,silver or silk to be used while arranging the interior of the palace

-they used 10 kinds of wood. to make is colour identical they kept it in water and then dried it

- instead of traditional wallpapers linen was used

- in some rooms there was original and inimitable interior e.g. in one of the rooms the walls and furniture were decorated with stamps from all over the world
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 27, 2010, 10:28:36 PM
interior of the palace

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/palac_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 27, 2010, 10:35:30 PM
the study of the emperor

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/studyemperor.jpg)

the study of the empress

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/studyempress.jpg)



Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 27, 2010, 10:39:32 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/billard.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 27, 2010, 11:09:38 PM
the account of the last stay of alexande 3 in belovezh,1894,made by mr polevoy who was in charge of the imperial post

a summary

the emperor came to belovezh with his wife, his sons nikolay and mikhail,olga and grand dukes vladimir alexandrovich and mikhail nikolaevich. life in belovezh was very quite.the imperial couple were accompanied only by a small group of people so they felt at ease. a3 and mf woke up at approx 8 a.m. and drank coffee together on a balcony.the emperor felt so comfortable in belovezh that he wore a bathrobe in the morning.

according to the personal request of the emperor, the residence was not particularly protected i.e. only one military unit was present there. the emperor didn`t like to see military men near the residence so the unit was on duty from 10 p m to 6 a m. the residence was protected only by the internal guard: the members of the guard checked entrance tickets at the entrance to the park. but the emperor and his family had to be protected anyway so the police was to be made "invisible" so that the   imperial family didn`t feel their presence.  servants and guards did thei best to protect the imperial family`s peace because it was peace and quiet that their guests needed.


Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 27, 2010, 11:30:40 PM
it was clear that the tzar`s health was deteriorating. mr polevoy remembered alexander 3 as a healthy full of vigour and strength man so he was statled by the emperor`s changed looks: he lost a lot of weight and his face expression  was sad and tired. it was clear that the tzar was suffering from a serious disesase.
the tzar`s condition was rapidly deteriorating:during the first day of his stay in belovezh he was able to stand during the entire church service but in the couse of time he had to linger on mariya feodoovna`s shoulder. the change in his condition was so evident so whenever 2 or 3  people gathered together they started to discuss the issue of alexander 3`s health.
the tzar`s condition was so serious that grand duke georgiy alexandrovich came to visit his father. the change of climate put a serious toll on georgiy`s health.

finally,doctors managed to persuade the tzar to move to a warmer and drier climate.the tzar decided to move to spala. as alexander 3 was leaving the people present during the farewell ceremony had an impression that he was saying his last good-bye to the people of belovezh.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 27, 2010, 11:53:18 PM
although belovezh was a hunting residence,alexander 3,ironically, was not particularly fond of hunting.

but,anyway, all the rituals were strictly observed e.g. after hunting,in the evening,huntes demonstated their trophies. it was an elaborate ritual conducted in the presence of the imperial family. meat was divided between the paticipants of the hunting and employees in belovezh residence.

some pictures of this ritual

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/trofei-beloveza2.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/trofei-beloveza1.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 28, 2010, 12:02:14 AM
after 1918,after poland gained independence, the authorities continued hunting in belovezh

a similar ritual of inspecting trophies, 1937

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/trophies21937.jpg)


and 1931

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/trophies-1931.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on September 30, 2010, 11:43:32 AM
railway station built for the imperial family called BELOVEZHA-PALACE. situated a few hundred meters from the palace.built in 1897 because that year railway connection between belovezh and warsaw and bialystok appeared.non-existent.railway connection was liquidated at the beginning of the 1990-s when the authoities decided that this connection did not generate enough income.local protested but their protests were ignored

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/belovezha1897station.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/belovezhastation1897.jpg)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Svetabel on January 19, 2011, 07:33:25 AM
Palace in Spala in 1886

(http://www.picatom.com/1r/1886-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1r/1886-1.html)

(http://www.picatom.com/1r/1886-3-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1r/1886-3.html)

and Study room of the Emperor in the Palace

(http://www.picatom.com/1r/1886-2-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1r/1886-2.html)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: TimM on March 15, 2012, 04:51:27 PM
So, of the three Imperial residences in Poland, that Greg refers to in Court Of The Last Tsar, only one still exists today (the other two having been torched by the Nazis in World War II)?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on March 19, 2012, 07:04:48 AM
So, of the three Imperial residences in Poland, that Greg refers to in Court Of The Last Tsar, only one still exists today (the other two having been torched by the Nazis in World War II)?


That1s true. Only the residence in Skierniewice has been preserved. As for Spala and Belovezh, other building e.g. the former hotel, Alexander III1s stone, stables etc. are still there.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: TimM on March 20, 2012, 04:51:56 PM
Thanks for the info.  I wasn't really sure what was left in Poland.  Greg's book mentions them, but not what ultimately happened to them.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: violetta on March 20, 2012, 07:12:42 PM
These places are worth visiting. Imperial residences can be found only in few places in Europe: a house in Finland, palaces in Riga and Tallinn plus Polish residences. By the way, there is als a house previously owned by GD Mikhail Aleksandrovich in Czestochowa. This tenement house used to be called "dom ksiecia", i.e. the prince`s house
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on March 23, 2012, 06:41:11 AM
Thanks for the info.  I wasn't really sure what was left in Poland.  Greg's book mentions them, but not what ultimately happened to them.

In the notes section of the relevant chapter of "Court of the last Tsar" there is a summary of the fate of each palace. I think the chapter is called "Country Estates".

Greg and I later expanded the information he published in "Court of the last Tsar" by writing two articles for Royalty Digest Quarterly, if you are interested in finding out more. One of these appeared in issue 2, 2006, and is about Spala and Bialowieza, so you can read much more about the early history of these places and how Alexander III in particular used them (as well as the material on Nicholas, which is also fuller than there was room for in the court book). The information about their fate is also expanded on, especially Bialowieza.

The second article appeared in issue 4, 2006, and covers the Warsaw palaces: Skierniewice, Warsaw Castle and Lazienki. The main characters in these tales are Konstantin Pavlovich, Nicholas I, Konstantin Nikolaevich and, again, Nicholas II - with more about Skierniewice than there was space for in the court book.

THEN, we also put the Bialowieza stuff up on the internet, in the article on Directarticle, which is linked from this thread in several places. The purpose of that was to show the photos we have and lay out a ground-plan of the palace and estate. The text is largely the same as in the RDQ article, but rearranged a bit.

The best photos of Spala and Skierniewice are Violetta's photos on this forum.

Greg and I both like Bialowieza the best as a building, and regret its destruction the most. The estate, as Violetta says, is well worth a visit: it has a magical atmosphere. These days I think you can even stay in (next to) the old imperial station: -

http://www.restauracjacarska.pl/

Not my cup of tea, all those pictures of Nicholas looking down, but I know some people would love it - so whatever floats your boat! :-) The apartments themselves look wonderful.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Inok Nikolai on May 02, 2012, 07:02:24 AM
Paul Gilbert reports on two picture books, one on Spala, the other on Bialowieza:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/blog/index.blog/1436360/imperial-residences-in-poland/

The books are in Polish, Russian and English — with lots of photos.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on October 30, 2013, 05:26:47 AM
A little more about Bialowieza on my blog entry at work today, adding to the Directarticle website. Not much extra on the palace here, but a bit about the research into its history (which was fun!): -

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/european/2013/10/we-are-all-so-switched-on-to-social-media-these-days-that-we-sometimes-forget-how-recent-a-development-this-has-been-every-s.html

[Not sure the URL is so long; I didn't post it!]
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Превед on May 26, 2015, 02:07:10 PM
By the way, there is als a house previously owned by GD Mikhail Aleksandrovich in Czestochowa. This tenement house used to be called "dom ksiecia", i.e. the prince`s house

Interesting, see here:Dom Księcia (http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_Ksi%C4%99cia)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Превед on May 26, 2015, 02:16:13 PM
BTW, our nearest neighbors are an older couple who immigrated from Poland.  I got to hear native Polish pronunciations of all the place names: Spala, Bialowiesza, etc, etc..  It was music to my ears.

BTW these names, Spała and Białowieża, both written with the ł with stroke, are a bit of a shibboleth in Polish: Untill the 1950s, apparantly, the Central and West Polish and current standard pronunciation with the ł pronounced [w], thus /Spawa/ and /Byawoviezha/ was considered uncouth. The East Polish (and Biolarussian and Russian) pronunciation with [l] was considered the noble standard, typical of the nobility's sociolect. Today it's apparently just theatrical.

Does anyone know what the Romanovs thoought about Polish and Poles?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Janet Ashton on May 29, 2015, 06:14:05 AM

Does anyone know what the Romanovs thoought about Polish and Poles?

Depends which Romanovs you mean. ;-) No Romanov Tsar ever behaved as if he liked Poland at all, though Nicholas I, Alexander III and Nicholas II spent quite a bit of time there.

But Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich, who was sent there as informal viceroy of the Congress Kingdom, started by despising the country (he had almost autocratic powers over it), but slowly came to be a big defender of it, claiming before he died that he had spoken Polish so long he could no longer speak Russian. It's as if he found his purpose there, away from the shadow of his "golden" brother Alexander - and Poland's fate at the hands of his other brother Nicholas after the Uprising destroyed him.

His namesake Konstantin Nikolaevich inherited his attitude as well as many of his estates - he was so pro-Polish as Governor-General that rumours circulated saying he was sponsoring independence and planning to set himself up as King soon! Like his uncle, he was summarily removed when things got out of hand. He named his son (born in Warsaw) Vyacheslav, knowing the name's association with Polish nationalism (Waclaw), and admired the free trade liberalism of the Polish economy (which he also tried to introduce in Russia).

I think it's probably fair to say that later Romanovs had no thoughts about (Russian) Poland beyond its being a Russian province they could hunt in, at least until they were forced to consider the question during world war One. Margaretta Eagar found Poland dirty and squalid and said so in her memoir; this was the attitude of many aristocratic Russians as well (including those of Polish-Lithuanian descent whose families ended up as servants of the Tsar: Catherine Radziwill is a good example since she absolutely rejected her Polish heritage and considered herself a Russian who opposed any autonomy for Poland, let alone independence). 
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Превед on May 29, 2015, 01:11:22 PM
Catherine Radziwill is a good example since she absolutely rejected her Polish heritage and considered herself a Russian who opposed any autonomy for Poland, let alone independence).

Interesting. I get the impression from her memoirs that her abjuration of everything Polish stems from her adored Polish father going over to the Russian side, her maternal family being Russian (though her mother died shortly after her birth), traumatic childhood experiences during the insurrection in 1863 (during which her baby brother died), growing up in St. Petersburg, her father's estate lying nominally in Poland, but in a region inhabited by Ukrainians and of course marrying into a nominally Polish family that was part of the German establishment. It seems that she didn't even speak Polish. Anyone who knows how Polish her stepmother Jadwiga Jaczewska was?
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Превед on May 30, 2015, 07:50:28 AM
The most pathetic attempt at architectural Russification in Congress Poland must have been the transformation of the Classicist Staszic Palace in Warsaw into Russo-Byzantine style, just because it once had housed the Orthodox chapel of the captive Shuysky Tsars / brothers during the Time of Trubles. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staszic_Palace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staszic_Palace) After Poland regained its independence the Russian façade dressing was removed, just like the immense Orthodox Alexander Nevsky Cathedral was demolished.

It is noteworthy to remember that the Romanovs rose to power after Russia had been humiliated by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. And yet, fanciful genealogies of the Romanovs claimed they descended from Prussia proper, which either was Polish territory (Royal / West Prussia) or a Polish fief (Ducal / East Prussia, from 1469 - 1701).

What makes the Polish question fascinatingly complex is that there are actually are three different Christian confessions jostling for supremacy. Catholicism, Protestantism and Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on October 20, 2016, 09:23:26 AM
An auction from the Yussupov collection has interesting photographs.

A rare one is of Empress Alexandra in Bialowieza in August 1900 (#244 in the catalogue on page 91)

http://s309339927.onlinehome.fr/PDF/2016/10_ART_RUSSE_4nov2016.pdf

Is anyone able to convert it to a jpeg (or make it bigger)?

Joanna
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on April 30, 2017, 08:31:03 AM
Bialowieza

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/th_BELOVEZH%203_zpsnyusauem.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/skinheadbrian/media/BELOVEZH%203_zpsnyusauem.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/th_BELOVEZH%201_zpspwvhwdti.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/skinheadbrian/media/BELOVEZH%201_zpspwvhwdti.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/th_BELOVEZH%202_zpsmkyst6dk.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/skinheadbrian/media/BELOVEZH%202_zpsmkyst6dk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on May 02, 2017, 09:05:10 AM
Thank you very much brnbg. A great research discovery of Bialowieza's plans!

Joanna
Title: Re: Imperial houses in Poland: Spala, Skierniewice, Bialowieza
Post by: Joanna on June 15, 2017, 11:13:59 AM
Rare Aerial Photograph of the Imperial Palace in Spala, Poland

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/06/alix-of-hesse-darmstadt-windsor-castle.html

Joanna