Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna => Topic started by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 07, 2009, 08:06:26 PM

Title: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 07, 2009, 08:06:26 PM
I read that they have a close relationship, can you post photos of that ladies together?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on October 07, 2009, 08:40:50 PM
 (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/ellasergemariadmtry.jpg)


Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on October 07, 2009, 08:42:14 PM


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/mushroomhunt.jpg)
In this one it's believed it's Ella next to Zenaida during a mushroom hunt

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Ella/grouppicsergezenaida-1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 07, 2009, 11:34:27 PM
can someone please please name the people in this picture??
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 07, 2009, 11:35:30 PM
i mean the past picture posted, the group photo...please if anyone knows who all these people are, i know dmitri and ella and sergei, etc but who is everyone else
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on October 07, 2009, 11:49:51 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Ella/grouppicsergezenaida-1-1.jpg)
The only one's I can recognize are second row: Felix Yusupov Sr, Grand Duke Serge with his hand on Dmitri's shoulder, and Grand Duchess Maria
On the first row I can only ID Ella and Zenaida..maybe someone else can recognize some of these faces?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 08, 2009, 02:40:41 PM
What beautiful photos, thank you very999 much to all of you!!
I read that their relationship was very good and close... Do you know something about it?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 08, 2009, 02:42:36 PM
I'm refferring to some anectdotes or wathever you want, I read in other thread that she didn't have
a good relationship with Alexandra, specially after the death of Rasputin, Didn't it damaged the relationship
between Ella and Zinaida?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 10, 2009, 10:07:11 AM
No. Ella & Zinaida remained friends until the end.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 11, 2009, 10:32:05 PM
is that the Grand Duchess Vladimir behind Ella, in the middle of the photograph?
i'm sad felix is not in this picture! i can never seem to find photos where both Dmitri and Felix are present :(
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Svetabel on October 11, 2009, 11:20:56 PM
is that the Grand Duchess Vladimir behind Ella, in the middle of the photograph?


No, that's not the GDss Maria Pavlovna-elder, that's Princess Maria Wasiltchikova.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2009, 01:11:56 PM
Only ones were when both Dimitri & Felix were children. It is sad that Dimitri died, he was more handsome and manly looking than his pretty brother Felix. It would be interesting if any letters survived that Ella sent to her friend when her eldest son died.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on October 12, 2009, 01:29:18 PM
Only ones were when both Dimitri & Felix were children. It is sad that Dimitri died, he was more handsome and manly looking than his pretty brother Felix. It would be interesting if any letters survived that Ella sent to her friend when her eldest son died.

I think you mean Nicholas, Felix's older brother who died in 1908. You are right however that Nicholas was more handsome & 'manly' instead of pretty like Felix.

Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2009, 01:32:12 PM
Yes. I mean Nicholas. Only one photo of him as a young man exist in Felix's bio. He was a dreamboat. It was sad he died in a duel...
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on October 12, 2009, 01:37:10 PM
If you go to the Yusupov thread you will see more photos of Nicholas as a child and young man. He was killed in a duel by the husband of his mistress/girlfriend. Very sad indeed.

After Nicholas death, both Zenaida and Felix Yusupov turned to Ella for comfort. It would be very interesting to see if any letters survived between the two woman during this period.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2009, 01:42:57 PM
If there were it would be in Russia. I wonder what sort of person Nicholas was ? He seemed to be a very passionate if hot-headed man.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 12, 2009, 04:35:32 PM
well i was talking about photos of grand duke dmitri and felix, seeing as they were friends since childhood i dont understand why there are no photos of them together.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on October 12, 2009, 04:42:41 PM
I believe there are a few of them as children together, but I have yet to come across of one of them as adults. I'll keep an eye out.

Photos are always popping up, just a few years ago we didn't think there were photos of Zenaida and Ella and now we have found several.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 12, 2009, 06:13:31 PM
this is true, ashanti, especilly considering the bolsheviks destroyed over half of romanov photo albums, a lot of wonderful pictures we will never see :(
if you find anything, let us know! i would be excited beyond words to see a photo of dmitri and felix :D
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Speedycat on October 12, 2009, 07:49:58 PM
Zinaida was such a beautiful woman. Such amazing clothes, especially the dark dress in the photo of she and Ella together.  Interesting how two of the most beautiful women in Russia would become friends rather then rivals.  It says a lot for the fine character of both.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 13, 2009, 03:27:49 PM
Did she used to do perticular activities together? I don't know perhaps going for a walk or something
like this??
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 13, 2009, 03:30:28 PM
They were both in the Russian social scene and admired each other.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 13, 2009, 03:38:29 PM
How did they met them?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 14, 2009, 04:19:30 PM
When Ella arrived in Russia, Zinaida was already the local beauty and heartbreaker. It was to their credit they became fans of the other rather than rivals.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 14, 2009, 06:48:17 PM
When Ella arrived in Russia, Zinaida was already the local beauty and heartbreaker. It was to their credit they became fans of the other rather than rivals.

But I think that they were more friends than rivals, two great beauties together ;-)
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 14, 2009, 07:57:13 PM
Indeed. They were the favourites of Sandro (who married Xenia).
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on October 27, 2009, 08:35:28 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/hpqscan0008-1-1-1.jpg)
The Yusupov's visiting in Ilyinskoie.

Felix Sr, General Bernoff,  Felix Jr, Princess Zenaida, Nicholas and to the far right is Princess Maria Alexandrovna Wassilchikoff
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 28, 2009, 06:37:00 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/hpqscan0008-1-1-1.jpg)
The Yusupov's visiting in Ilyinskoie.

Felix Sr, General Bernoff,  Felix Jr, Princess Zenaida, Nicholas and to the far right is Princess Maria Alexandrovna Wassilchikoff

let me see if i am right about this...

Felix SR is the gentleman on the very left and Gen. Bernoff is to Felix SR's RIGHT?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 28, 2009, 11:58:32 PM
anybody know what year this photo is taken?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 29, 2009, 02:28:52 PM
I don't think Felix look anywhere older than six...
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on November 01, 2009, 09:01:08 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/communitywebshotscomscreencapture20.png)
A big Thank you to katmax1
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on November 01, 2009, 09:02:30 PM
anybody know what year this photo is taken?

1894
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on November 01, 2009, 10:47:11 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/communitywebshotscomscreencapture20.png (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/communitywebshotscomscreencapture20.png)
A big Thank you to katmax1

who is the gentleman on the left?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Svetabel on November 02, 2009, 01:09:58 AM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/communitywebshotscomscreencapture20.png (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/communitywebshotscomscreencapture20.png)
A big Thank you to katmax1

who is the gentleman on the left?

I think that's GD Friedrich Franz of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashdean on November 02, 2009, 02:46:20 AM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/communitywebshotscomscreencapture20.png (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/communitywebshotscomscreencapture20.png)
A big Thank you to katmax1

who is the gentleman on the left?

I think that's GD Friedrich Franz of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.
The Grand Duke did visit his mothers family in Russia on several occassions so it could well be him...it certainly looks like him.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: katmaxoz on April 03, 2010, 03:28:00 AM
do you think the lady in the middle of the front row is Zenadia? She has a rather distinctive wave in her hair that makes me that is who it is. I think this picture was taken c1890, but aside from Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna next to Zeniadia I'm not sure who else is in the picture.

(http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/45037/2564689570102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2564689570102753164RICPTR)

Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on April 03, 2010, 08:44:09 AM
In the middle is Grand Duchess Elisabeth, Masha Wassilshczikova to the left.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Svetabel on April 04, 2010, 09:27:47 AM
do you think the lady in the middle of the front row is Zenadia? She has a rather distinctive wave in her hair that makes me that is who it is. I think this picture was taken c1890, but aside from Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna next to Zeniadia I'm not sure who else is in the picture.





The date is 1900-1902. Really could be Zenaida by GDss MP-younger's side.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: matushka on April 07, 2010, 08:54:53 AM
After Nicholas death, both Zenaida and Felix Yusupov turned to Ella for comfort. It would be very interesting to see if any letters survived between the two woman during this period.

Ashanti, yes letters survived. Some examples of them you can read in "Grand-Duchess EF and Nicholas II, materials and documents" (in russian): at pages 806 and 808 we read 2 letters where Ella try to reconfort Zinaida after the death of her son. Perhaps someone can help you with translation if you need. I can also try (something approximative).
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on April 07, 2010, 07:56:14 PM
After Nicholas death, both Zenaida and Felix Yusupov turned to Ella for comfort. It would be very interesting to see if any letters survived between the two woman during this period.

Ashanti, yes letters survived. Some examples of them you can read in "Grand-Duchess EF and Nicholas II, materials and documents" (in russian): at pages 806 and 808 we read 2 letters where Ella try to reconfort Zinaida after the death of her son. Perhaps someone can help you with translation if you need. I can also try (something approximative).

I would love that! If you could be so kind as to translate those letters I would be forever grateful.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: matushka on April 08, 2010, 07:23:47 AM
I try an approximative translation of one letter.
1st July 1908
My heart,
Don't write me! There are such moments in life when one can't express on paper his morals sufferings. I don't need you answer me a few words. It will be the best proof that you consider me as you real friend, knowing that I understand you, when you wont do any efforts to write me.
One can't compare your sorrow with mine because you are suffering for two, seeing Felix's suffering: I was alone. Nikolai was a young man, when my Sergey was thirsty about to die in God.
But death is still a separation. I don't like this word. I think that those who let us are preparing a road for us and our prayers help them to clear the road we will have to go once. We don't part with them. Our souls are united in one desire, the desire the Lord will forgive us our sinns and take us with Him. What gave my soul peace, my heart and my mind rest are the relics of St Alexis. If only you could also go to church and pray before the relics of a saint, and then, after the prayer, pour out your sorrow, peace would suddenly enter you and stay with you (...).

End of quotation. The original, in french, is in GARF.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 08, 2010, 09:04:47 AM
Thanks Matushka !

A very moving letter. Appreciate it very much.  :)
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: katmaxoz on June 01, 2010, 05:24:58 AM
Do you think it is Zinaida on the far right of this photo?

(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/3553/2655226320102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2655226320102753164lIwPfS)

Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashdean on June 01, 2010, 07:07:33 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 01, 2010, 08:31:25 AM
Who was the other lady ? I am wondering if she was royal...
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on June 01, 2010, 02:45:45 PM
Ella looks so young and pretty, do you have the year this was taken?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 01, 2010, 02:47:31 PM
I think she had that hairstyle in 1885.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: katmaxoz on June 01, 2010, 05:10:53 PM
Ella looks so young and pretty, do you have the year this was taken?

only that it was in the 1880s, sorry. Some other member may know
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 01, 2010, 05:23:28 PM
According the fashion, i`d say early 1890s.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 01, 2010, 08:53:46 PM
It is interesting in the photo Ella looked much younger than Zinaida !  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on June 01, 2010, 09:34:10 PM
I agree, it almost makes me think it isn't Zenaide, but it is right?  Has it been labeled or are you going by sight?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: katmaxoz on June 01, 2010, 10:32:21 PM
I agree, it almost makes me think it isn't Zenaide, but it is right?  Has it been labeled or are you going by sight?

going off sight alone. The face caught my attention in how it resembed other photos of Zenaide. I don't know who the other lady is in the picture though...
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Svetabel on June 02, 2010, 01:35:09 AM
Ella looks so young and pretty, do you have the year this was taken?

only that it was in the 1880s, sorry. Some other member may know

That's middle of the 1880s.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 03, 2010, 09:01:07 AM
Welcome !

I wonder if the letters between the two women survived ?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on June 03, 2010, 02:55:57 PM
I would love to read those letters. Ella and Alexandra Georgeivna of Greece were also quite close before she died, wonder if there is a correspondence there as well?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 03, 2010, 06:26:22 PM
Yes. I think they were either in Russia or destroyed. Alexandra of Greece (Grand Duchess Paul) died young, so her papers were most likely to have been given back to Queen Olga.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Olga Maria on June 07, 2010, 01:38:27 AM
Ella looks so young and pretty, do you have the year this was taken?
According to Britannica encyclopedia, that kind of clothing became popular in 1885-1890. Ella looked younger than Zinaida all the time, IMO.
Thanks a lot for that wonderful translation, matushka! Ella knew what her friend felt at that moment and she gave her encouragement to uplift Zinaida’s hopes up. What a really good loving soul she has! 



Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 07, 2010, 10:32:36 AM
Not exactly ella but..here i go


Zinaida and Serge

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2ypnnkp.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 07, 2010, 11:54:24 AM
Nice photo !  :) I wonder if Serge was close to Zinaida ?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: katmaxoz on June 07, 2010, 05:34:04 PM
that's a nice new photo Katenka.  Did you find it in a Russian book?  I'll bet there are old Youssupov albums still floating around with a lot of these photos. A shame they rarely see the light of day.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on June 08, 2010, 11:14:51 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/zenaida/olderfortyzen/DSC04989.jpg)
Ella and unknown man behind her, Zenaida, and Serge
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 08, 2010, 12:53:01 PM
If I am not mistaken, this photo was posted before ?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on June 08, 2010, 05:04:11 PM
It's been posted on other threads but not this one.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on June 08, 2010, 05:30:34 PM
Interesting, I wonder if Felix Sr and Ella got along well, as Felix Jr mentions in his memoir Ella was like a second mother to him
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 09, 2010, 09:26:10 AM
Yes...yet he dislike Serge very much. He dislike him touching him. Maybe Felix is not telling all...
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on December 30, 2010, 03:54:01 PM
No Princess Youssoupoff, but you do see Prince Felix Youssoupoff Sr in the back of the group. Grand Duke Serge and Grand Duchess Elizabeth sitting in the front.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/ellasergecountfelixsr001-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: perdita on June 21, 2012, 11:59:51 AM
Yes...yet he dislike Serge very much. He dislike him touching him. Maybe Felix is not telling all...


Not true. Felix Yusupov (i.e., slimy and sub-normal) wrote that Serge disliked it when he (Felix) TOUCHED HIM.

True, Yusupov had no liking for Serge & wrote that he could not abide the way Serge "stared" at him. On the other hand, Queen Marie of Rumania wrote that Serge ("our chosen favorite") scrutinized everyone with eyes "steely grey and with pupils that could narrow like those of a cat, till they become mere pinpoints, and then there was something almost menacing about him." Queen Marie noted that Serge was, by far, the most "frightening" of the grand dukes. Marie Pavlova the younger agreed. No doubt Yusupov found Serge unsympathetic and off putting.

Arguably, it was Serge who thought the aberrant and sissified Yusupov strange--or perhaps disapproved of him (with reason).  Not surprisingly, Felix would one day become an unrepentent murderer who bragged, marketed, and profiteered off his kill. Even Yusupov's closest friend the Grand Duke Dmitri fell out with him as a result of his dishonerable behavior.

By the way, unlike the Grand Duke Serge, very few of Yusupov's relations or acquaintances stipulated that they liked or respected Felix Yusupov. No wonder.

Zinaida Yussupov was a great friend of the Grand Duke Serge & was a frequent guest in his house.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: perdita on June 21, 2012, 12:25:18 PM
Quote from: Eric_Lowe "Maybe Felix is not telling all..."
[/quote

No one would accuse Yussupov of discretion. There was very little Rasputin's killer did not blab for cash. Certianly, he had no reason to spare the hated & vilified Grand Duke Serge,--infamous ogre to his adored & martyred Ella.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 21, 2012, 03:03:38 PM
I think Felix felt intimidated by his "cold" stare, while Serge was not amused when the boy touched "his corset".
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 21, 2012, 04:23:33 PM
I am not defending Felix here, but what makes him so "slimy, ssisfied & sub-normal" ? Who's words are those ?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 21, 2012, 10:46:53 PM
I think Pedita...I haven't seen these words used on Felix, most certainly not from the Imperial or Royal Family. However he was a strange bird though.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Vanya Ivanova on June 22, 2012, 05:54:41 AM
Im so glad Perdita, that someone has finally pointed out that Felix Yussopov was nothing but a cold blooded murderer of an unarmed, defenseless individual and that he spent the rest of his debased, venal life basking in the (quite frankly sick) glory he imagined this act gave him. In my opinion he is exactly the same as Petr Ermakov.

His sexuality, whatever it was, in my opinion is an irrelevance and his own business, it was his obvious enjoyment of the pre meditated killing of another human being that makes him so disgusting.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 22, 2012, 08:43:34 AM
I don't think about it like that. Felix had a "thing" going with Rasputin (not a likable human being either) and his memoirs indicated such, as he later recanted his story that it was he who was the attraction that fateful night and not his wife Irina, who was away anyway. Dmitri was drawn to Felix and a sense of loyalty to the crown to do this. I agree the murder was horrific, but the victim and his murderers were not innocent either.   
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Vanya Ivanova on June 22, 2012, 09:14:15 AM
Rasputin was no saint of course, he was undoubtedly a debauched and an opportunist, however he was not violent, his direct actions did not lead to anyone being physically harmed or killed and whatever his motivation for accepting Yussopov's invitation, he went to the Moilka Palace alone and unarmed. Are you actually saying he deserved what he got?

I entirely fail to see how either Yussopov or Rasputin's sexual proclivities are of any relevance. Yussopov organised a murder, participated in it and then spent the rest of his life bragging about it. The so called political motivations for the crime were extremely spurious. Murder can never be justified under any circumstances what so ever. It was not self defense, or manslaughter.  What happened to Rasputin was pre-meditated murder.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 22, 2012, 09:20:02 AM
Well...People commit murder in the name of religion and patriotism every day. The royalist felt Rasputin was dragging the Romanov dynasty down with his control of the government through the Empress. Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna (the saint) congratulated Felix & Dmitri for their patriotic deed and so did the public opinion in Russia. The murder was politically motivated there is no doubt and supported by members of the Russian Imperial Family. This is no lone wolf attempt on Felix's part.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Vanya Ivanova on June 22, 2012, 09:53:13 AM
I agree with you that people felt Rasputin was a very serious threat etc and of course people are killed every day but that doesn't mean its right! Felix Yussopov did act alone in bragging about and profiteering from the murder.

Ella for all her piety was no 'saint' and your point, in my opinion proves it, she condoned a murder. The people who threw her head first down a mineshaft also believed they were acting for the greater good and there were no 'lone wolves' in that group either.

My point is morally its the same, Rasputin didn't 'deserve' to be killed any more than GD Ella did. Both murders were terrible, horrific crimes and their perpetrators deserved to be held to account for committing a terrible crime, not applauded as Yussopov and the likes of Ermakov etc were.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 22, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
Indeed murder is wrong. But those who have a vested interest (the Imperial Family) sees it as a kind of righteous killing. It does not make it right but they do feel that way. No one mourn the death of Rasputin too much, although Ella was mourned. Such is the difference. You will not see a statue of Rasputin in Westminster Abbey anytime soon. As for Felix bragging, he had his claim to fame or notoriety in history books for the slaying.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Vanya Ivanova on June 22, 2012, 10:30:24 AM
Nicholas and Alexandra and their five children, Anna Vyrubova and Rasputin's own family most certainly did mourn his death very deeply.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 22, 2012, 10:40:13 AM
I don't think Nicholas mourned him as much as his wife Alicky. Those who did not was headed by the Dowager Empress, Grand Duchesses Xenia and most certainly Olga. Grand Duke Nicholas  and his family. Grand Duchess Marie Paulovna the elder & younger plus their families...
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: perdita on June 22, 2012, 11:55:30 AM
I am not defending Felix here, but what makes him so "slimy, ssisfied & sub-normal" ? Who's words are those ?

Those words are Perdita's.

So suspect was Yussupov's deviant reputation (mostly accurate) even before his marriage that his future in-laws conducted a cursory "investigation" into his character--but opted to permit the marriage between the besotted Irina & the "wealthiest man in Russia" notwithstanding.

By his own admission Yusupov suspected his abberant "inclinations"--ditto had a penchant for wearing heavy make-up, mascara, and cross-dressing a woman.

Felix was also a private citizen who ASSASSINATED people he disapproved of (i.e., arbitrating his victim dangerous to his political interests)--and then proceeded throughout his lifetime to break his solemn vow by marketing, profiteering & boasting in countless interviews his kill.

Although a "Christian" father, Felix was wholly unsuited to the burdens and responsibilities of fullfilling his parental obligations. His daughter's paternal grandparents were obliged to assume Yusupov's first duty and raise his child.

Hence slimy, sissified & sub-normal.  Not to mention deginerate.

Incidentally, it is possible to list DOZENS of family relations, personal acquaintances, & staff of the "not likeable" Grand Duke Serge who stipulated that they liked and respected him. Can the same be said of Prince Felix Yusupov?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: perdita on June 22, 2012, 12:50:37 PM
Indeed murder is wrong. But those who have a vested interest (the Imperial Family) sees it as a kind of righteous killing. It does not make it right but they do feel that way. No one mourn the death of Rasputin too much, although Ella was mourned. Such is the difference. You will not see a statue of Rasputin in Westminster Abbey anytime soon. As for Felix bragging, he had his claim to fame or notoriety in history books for the slaying.

Whoever "mourned" or didn't mourn the cold blooded murders of private citizen Rasputin & the Grand Duchess Ella is irrelevant.  BOTH the "monk" and Ella had their mourners.

The point is, not for the first time, Ella came full circle. The assassins who murdered Rasputin used precisely the same rationalizations to justify their deed as did the assassins of the Grand Duke Serge. Did that horrific irony escape the Grand Duchess Elizabeth? It did not escape the Grand Duke Paul who strongly condemned his son's participation in Rasputin's assassination and believed it would backfire both on the perpetrators & on Tsarist Russia.

Keep in mind, revolutionaries had a "vested interest" in "righteous killings" too as Ella and the Romanov family would soon discover.

Did not Nun Ella's assassins use the same lethal logic applied by the assassins of Rasputin?  i.e., The end justifies the means. Hardly the mindset of Christians--or for that matter martyres in a Holy order willing to die for their religious convictions.

Nicholas 11, quote: "No one has the right to commit murder."


Sophia Buxhoeveden, quote: "Though patriotic feeling was supposed to be the motive of the murder, it was the first indirect blow to the Emperor's authority, the first spark of insurrection. In short, it was the application of LYNCH LAW, the taking of law & judgement forcibly into private hands."

Anarchy on all sides. The beginning of the end for the rule of law, the emperor's authority, and Russia.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: perdita on June 22, 2012, 01:43:10 PM
I think Felix felt intimidated by his "cold" stare, while Serge was not amused when the boy touched "his corset".

"Intimidated" could be an apt description. Serge in-your-face scrutinized everyone. Reference his penatrating "stare" in photographs. One diarist wrote that Serge fixated on a portrait painted of Zinaida Yussupov for hours.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 22, 2012, 03:27:28 PM
To be honest, the Emperor was unable to enforce his rule as far as his family goes. Nicky was weak and Alicky was a fanatic, coupled with a "mad monk" is a recipe for disaster. Ironically, it was the murder of Rasputin with the exile penalty that saved the lives of Felix & Dmitri.

If you remember the Emperor was given a document signed by leading Romanovs for clemency for Dmitri, and on top of the list was the "saintly" Queen Olga of Greece. Dmitri's grandmother. A step further was the secret plot of Miechen (Grand Duchess Vladimir of Russia) to start a palace revolution to take power and exile the Empress to a convent. So yes poor Nicky lost power long time ago...
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Svetabel on June 22, 2012, 10:10:38 PM
Please do stay in topic. There are many other threads for discussions of other Romanovs. Here's a topic on GDss Elizaveta and Prss Zenaida Yusupova.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 23, 2012, 03:45:10 PM
I think both Ella & Princess Yussopv wanted the Emperor to dismiss Rasputin because of his image hurting the monarchy. I would not say either mourn for the mad monk.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Stardust on August 07, 2012, 07:32:11 AM

. One diarist wrote that Serge fixated on a portrait painted of Zinaida Yussupov for hours.
[/quote]

Interesting, after noticing a few pictures of them together.  Does anyone think there could have been a infatuation part from serge?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 07, 2012, 12:54:55 PM
I think Serge was infatuated with beauty itself. Both Ella & Zinaida were manifestation of beauty. Their devastating attraction was confirmed by Sandro's memoirs. 
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: ashanti01 on November 11, 2012, 12:31:56 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/sergeellaprincessyoussougroup.jpg)
Group photo of Grand Duke Serge, Grand Duchess Elizabeth with their entourage. Princess Zinaida Yusupova is seated next to GD Sergei.
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2012, 05:30:58 PM
Thanks for another photo of these two beauties. I wonder if their correspondence survived ? 
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Svetabel on November 11, 2012, 10:41:26 PM
I wonder if their correspondence survived ? 

Some letters in French. I believe we had a link to on-line publication of those letters some where in the Grand Duchess Elisabeth subforum, and I  also believe you said "thanks" to the poster who offered that link. Didn't you have a look to that site and copy the letters?
Title: Re: Ella and Zinaida Yussupova (photos)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2012, 11:27:10 PM
I think I only linked to the site on Minnie's letters. Not sure on Ella's. Can you link me there ? Thanks.

They wrote to each other in French ?