Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Other Palaces => Topic started by: Almedingen on February 13, 2004, 10:37:15 PM

Title: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Almedingen on February 13, 2004, 10:37:15 PM
When I was in Russia in 1995, workmen were working on the mezzanine/entresol level where Alexander III and his family used to live in Gachina.  Does anyone know how this work is progressing today?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Greg_King on February 14, 2004, 05:25:26 PM

It's been a few years since I was there, but I just did an article for "Atlantis" on this and interviewed Tatiana Koskeyeva, Assistant Curator at Gatchina, who said that work continues.  By 1996, the exterior walls had been reinforced, and the internal masonry divisions bolstered with iron beams and ties; even so, there was nothing of Alexander IIIs Private Apartments left to be seen.  Wooden partitions, doors, and interior details, were all lost in the fire that swept through the Palace in 1944, leaving only a configuration of supporting piers and crumbled walls, open to the elements through the empty windows.  By 2000, however, the floors had been reinforced, rubble swept clear, and interior walls plastered.  As money allows, the former shell is being replaced with decoration copied from contemporary photographs, but it will be many years before is fully restored.  Its isolation makes it an inconvenient tourist destination, and funds necessary to complete the work are often channeled to the more popular Peterhof, Tsarskoye Selo, and Pavlovsk reserves.  Many items-tapestries, paintings, furniture, and sculpture-originally from the Gatchina collection, evacuated in advance of the Nazi invasion, were never returned, instead forming much of the collection now on display at Pavlovsk; a constant battle is waged over these items, but Pavlovsk, better known and closer to tourist centers, continues to hold them.  They are ours, Koskeyeva says adamantly, and they should be returned to Gatchina, where they belong.  She particularly notes a number of important chandeliers, bronzes, and pieces of furniture that are integral elements to our faithful restoration.  An Artillery and Weaponry Museum has been established on the ground floor, Gatchina once again playing host to an exquisite collection of priceless artifacts, while on the floors above numerous Imperial items not associated with the Palace but culled from other museums, including Nicholas II and Empress Alexandras Coronation Thrones that had been in the St. Andrei Hall of the Grand Kremlin Palace, are displayed.

Greg King

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on April 11, 2004, 08:50:17 PM


This map will help orient the different locations:
http://www.infoservices.com/stpete/map/gatch800.html

After reading Michael and Natasha, I am curious where their villa was located.

Joanna

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Cathy_Steriling on June 15, 2004, 02:59:45 PM
Since 2001, the Palace has had a change in its Director, and like Pushkin the city of Gatchina has been doing a marvelous job restoring this magnificent building. It really needs alot of repairs slowly but surely the work is being done :).
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: RomanovFan on June 22, 2004, 05:16:36 PM
That's really neat that you used to live in Russia. :) (I'm new here by the way :)  )
Wasn't the Gachina Palace where GDs Marie and Anastasia were born? Just curious. Thanks.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Sarai on June 23, 2004, 07:29:59 AM
Quote
Wasn't the Gachina Palace where GDs Marie and Anastasia were born? Just curious. Thanks.


Marie and Anastasia were actually born in the Lower Palace at Peterhof. Sadly, it doesn't exist anymore.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on October 26, 2004, 08:18:33 PM
There is a marvelous site on Gatchina with photographs, maps, plans, articles, books, etc. {site is slow to download but worth the patience!]:

http://gatchina3000.narod.ru/

An aerial view of Gatchina palace:

http://gatchina3000.narod.ru/misc/pages/am01_jpg.htm

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: hikaru on March 01, 2005, 09:25:47 AM
By the way, Gatchina was the biggest summer residence of Russian Emperors near Peterburg - more than 527 ( or 537 rooms).
It was just addition.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on March 31, 2005, 05:38:33 AM
Gatchina's Palace this winter.The shots are mine

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/gat1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/gat.jpg)

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on March 31, 2005, 05:39:43 AM
And Gatchina's Palace in the 1900s. Two Empresses at parade

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/gat1900s.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on March 31, 2005, 05:42:23 AM
Restoration works... The Main Wing.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/chesmen.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Greg D on April 04, 2005, 01:44:22 AM
Great Photos Svetabel !

It must have been heartbreaking to see the current state of much of the interior ... I know that some of the State Rooms have already been restored, but what was your impression of the rest of the palace ?? Was there an active restoration going on, or more of a conservation/holding operation ? I do hope to go there in a year or two, so would be great to know  ;)

Thanks

Greg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on April 07, 2005, 08:56:44 AM




Actually I did not see active restoration works :( As usual..lack of funding. Only some rooms on the ground and 1st floors in the Main Wing are restored. The last photo I posted was Chesmensky Hall...sad picture.
The Arsenal Wing is closed for tourists.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: La_Mashka on April 25, 2005, 05:50:21 PM
I visited August 2004


Only 6 rooms were open to the public

The parquet floors have been restored, as has the Tsar throne room.

We saw work in progress at the Tsarinas bedroom, mainly wood on the walls, and the bed.

The palace is gigantic, so it is sad that only 6 rooms are open, but from what we heard from our tour guide, many more rooms are scheduled to be open to the public by 2006. Of course, this isn't official information, its what we were told
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: La_Mashka on May 18, 2005, 10:07:38 AM
Wow!

It looks so different!!!


Thank you!   ;D
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Athena on May 21, 2005, 09:27:11 AM
http://www.gorod.gatchina.biz/img/030_7.gif

1944
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Athena on May 21, 2005, 09:28:08 AM
http://www.gorod.gatchina.biz/img/030_8.gif

Greec Galery Gatchina Palace

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 21, 2005, 06:05:07 PM
(http://img286.echo.cx/img286/1715/1pgatchina002800aircoursud109d.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 21, 2005, 06:12:36 PM
(http://img263.echo.cx/img263/3/1pgatchina002800airnordestrest1.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on May 22, 2005, 08:38:10 AM
This is the Arsenal Block, in the mezzinine there were Alex III' s private room facing the roses garden.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Athena on May 25, 2005, 04:56:57 AM
http://www.serzh.ru/landsc/gatchina/palace/index.html
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 25, 2005, 08:26:58 PM
Pavilion of Venus on island of love
(http://img279.echo.cx/img279/2249/pgatchina0141874pavilionofvenu.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 25, 2005, 08:27:55 PM
Inside the pavilion of Venus
(http://img205.echo.cx/img205/6463/pvenus0fs.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 25, 2005, 08:29:13 PM
Portal is mask and the birch house

(http://img205.echo.cx/img205/9011/pgatchina013gatchinadvorcovypa.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 25, 2005, 08:30:38 PM
Inside the Bitch house

(http://img205.echo.cx/img205/9721/pgatchinabirchhouse02012550img.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 25, 2005, 08:31:49 PM
Inside Bitch house after restauration
(http://img205.echo.cx/img205/2048/pgatchinabirchhouse02012600gat.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 25, 2005, 08:32:32 PM
(http://img205.echo.cx/img205/9806/pgatchinabirchhouse02012600gat1.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 25, 2005, 08:33:15 PM
(http://img205.echo.cx/img205/8620/pgatchinabirchhouse02012600gat2.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: La_Mashka on May 26, 2005, 09:57:07 AM
Wow Reco!!

Those pictures are stunning!!!!

Are these places  located in the gardens around Gatchina??

And, do you know what they were used for?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 26, 2005, 12:09:00 PM
Are these places  located in the gardens around Gatchina??

Yes

And, do you know what they were used for?

Just small place for rest, lunch, etc...
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on May 26, 2005, 02:16:18 PM
Reco,
Click on this link to get a wonderful map of Gatchina, which I think has most of the buildings in the Gatchina Park.
http://www.ticketsofrussia.ru/maps/gatch800.html
Bob G
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on May 26, 2005, 02:23:18 PM
Merci BobG,

I have this map since september 2004.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on September 26, 2005, 05:37:13 AM
Private Appartments of Alexander III in the Arsenal Wing
of the Palace. The photos of 1938-1940 years.

Bedroom of Alexander III and Maria Fedorovna.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bedroom_AlexIII_MariaFed_2.jpg)

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on September 26, 2005, 05:40:19 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bedroom_AlexIII_MariaFed_3.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on September 26, 2005, 05:40:52 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bedroom_AlexIII_MariaFed.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on September 26, 2005, 08:05:06 AM
Svetabel,
What wonderful pictures of the private rooms of Gatchina!
It makes me hope you have more to post.  Do you have any of the drawing or dining rooms of MA & AIII?  Any additional posts would be much appreciated.
It is always fascinating to see how the Imperial family lived privately as opposed to the ornate and sumptious public spaces they inherited from their ancestors.
By the way, can you tell us where you found these wonderful historical photos?
Bob G
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on September 26, 2005, 08:28:49 AM
Yes, Bob, I have more to post. I wish I had more free time for posting!  :)
Actually I have the photos of drawing- and dining rooms....and more. :)
The book is really wonderful, it's a photoalbum in Russian, I'll post the title.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on September 29, 2005, 01:55:42 AM
"Palace in Gatchina, a story of the museum", photoalbum, published in 2003. I do not translate the title word for word..in Russian it sounds like "Gatchinskiy Dvorets. Stranitzi istorii muzeya. Fotoalbom".
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on September 29, 2005, 05:52:42 AM
Svetabel,
Thanks for the title.  Sounds like it was published in Russia and will be a hard book to find here in the USA.  
So we'll look forward to your posting more pictures for us to see.  Thanks for the information and the photos.  Hope to see more soon!
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 01, 2005, 02:28:35 AM
Yes, the book was published in Russia,in Saint-Petersburg . I used to forget posting the ISBN  ::)...here it is  5-98343-003-3.

Well, and these pictures are the private rooms of GD Mikhail Alexandrovitch, youngest son of Alexander III

Bedroom
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/bedroom.jpg)

Bathroom
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/bathroom.jpg)

Study
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Study.jpg)



Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on October 08, 2005, 01:43:55 PM
I just read in Grand Duchess George  book A Romanov Diary about the Imperial rooms at Gatchina:

"Strangely enough the family chose to live in the entresol which was originally intended for servants.  Guests were lodged in the usual big rooms above the unpretentious entresol."

I think Alexander's influence was a big part of this decision.
Bob G
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 10, 2005, 10:22:09 AM
Well,of course it was Alexander's influence. BTW, there was a rumour that Queen Olga of Greece (when staying at Gatchina ) had to sleep in a big bath-tub! ;D becouse there were not much place for guests.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amelia on October 10, 2005, 09:00:01 PM
Dear Svetabel,

I tried here in USA, to find the book you mentioned about Gatchina Palace. I triedn Amazon.com and barnes and noble, they did not have. So I assume that it was published only in Russia.

Thanks a lot for the photographs.  I have been to St.Pertersburgh , but I did not visit Gatchina. How long is it from SP and what is the best way to go, by car or train?

Thanks
Amelia
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 11, 2005, 01:36:49 PM
Hi Amelia!

Actually Gatchina is not far from Saint-Petersburg if you go by car - 40 minutes or so...By train - a bit longer.

As for the book I guess it's a rare one.I bought it by chance and had never seen it on-line.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 12, 2005, 01:25:11 AM
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=474916223

Pictures of the private appartments of GD Xenia Alexandrovna (in Gatchina).


Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on October 12, 2005, 07:52:46 AM
This link doesn't seem to work.
BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 12, 2005, 08:01:02 AM
Sorry, try again. :) I made it public.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on October 12, 2005, 09:31:55 AM
Still get an error message when I try the link.
Maybe you need to post it again now that you've made it public.
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 13, 2005, 04:44:43 AM
Well, let's return  to photobucket :)

Study of GD Xenia

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/StudyXenia.jpg

Her Drawing room
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/DrawingRoomXenia1.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 13, 2005, 04:47:21 AM
Bedroom of GD Xenia

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/BedroomXenia2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/BedroomXenia1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/BedroomXenia.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 13, 2005, 04:51:19 AM
Appartments od Empress Maria Fedorovna

Drawing Room

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/DrawingRoomMariaFed.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/DrawingRoomMariaFed1.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on October 13, 2005, 05:40:23 AM
Svetabel,
Thanks for going through all the trouble to get these photos posted.  And thanks for sharing them with us.  It is wonderful to see the rooms the Imperial family actually lived in.
If you have any more to post, we look forward to seeing them.
Thanks again,
Bob G
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 20, 2005, 03:13:10 AM
The rooms of Grand Dukes Nikolay and Georgiy, sons of Alexander III

Their bedroom

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/BedroomNickyGeorgiy.jpg

Their classroom
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/ClassroomNickyGeorgiy.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 20, 2005, 03:16:12 AM
Study of Georgiy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/StudyGeorgiy.jpg

Study of Nikolay

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/StudyNicky.jpg


Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 07, 2005, 06:28:10 AM
Rooms of Alexander III

Dressing-rooms
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/1stDressingRoomAlexanderIII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/2dDressingRoomAlexanderIII.jpg

His private study

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/PrivateStudyAlexanderIII_a.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 07, 2005, 07:10:33 AM
Svetabel,
Thanks for the additional postings.  It had been a while and I thought you had stopped adding to our collections!  I hope you continue to post many more!
BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 07, 2005, 07:33:46 AM
 :)I am sure to announce when I'll stop  postings of the Gatchina!!  ;) I am very glad you like the pictures.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 11, 2005, 07:34:04 AM
The Reception Rooms of Alexander III. He had 4 Reception Rooms.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/1stReceptionRoomAlexanderIII_a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/2dtReceptionRoomAlexanderIII_.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/4dtReceptionRoomAlexanderIII.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/3dtReceptionRoomAlexanderIII_a.jpg

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 11, 2005, 09:36:06 AM
Wonderful!
Keep on posting!
BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Leuchtenberg on November 13, 2005, 08:39:18 AM
These photos are wonderful!  The very low ceilings surprised me.  I wonder how many Romanov's bumped their heads?   ;)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 14, 2005, 12:28:25 AM
Quote
These photos are wonderful! The very low ceilings surprised me. I wonder how many Romanov's bumped their heads? ;)


Most of the Romanov men I think!  ;)

As for the others pics of the appartments in the Arsenal Wing - ..well, those were all photos of Alexander III's rooms on the mezzanine floor. There are many photos of the ground and first floors of the Arsenal Wing in the book. I mean the appartments of the Tzars Nikolay I and Alexander II.
If it's still interesting for someone I'll keep on posting.


Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 14, 2005, 06:07:34 AM
Svetabel,
Yes, please do keep posting.

Just to clarify the last pictures you posted were Alexander III's reception rooms which were on the first floor, and not in the low ceiling mezzanine where the family lived.  Luckily we have Brian's wonderful labeled floorplans to help us identify the rooms.

Looking forward to more photos.

BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 14, 2005, 07:12:56 AM
Quote
Just to clarify the last pictures you posted were Alexander III's reception rooms which were on the first floor, and not in the low ceiling mezzanine where the family lived. Luckily we have Brian's wonderful labeled floorplans to help us identify the rooms.

Looking forward to more photos.

BobG


Thanks, Bob ! :) I stupidly forgot to clarify those last pcitures! :) Of course, the Reception Rooms are on the first floor. :)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 14, 2005, 09:14:21 AM
Svetabel,
I certainly am not criticizing about your posts!

I just immediately find the rooms in your photo postings on the floorplan so I can understand where they are in the palace.  I noticed these rooms did not have the low ceilings and knew they must be on another floor.  

I've learned so much about Gatchina and how the family lived there from your posting --- please keep them coming.

BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 18, 2005, 03:56:23 AM
Quote
Svetabel,
I certainly am not criticizing about your posts!

 
BobG


It's ok, Bob. :) Actually I am used to forget explaining photos, images and so on. ::). Moreover, I forgot to post 2 more pics of Alexander III's rooms.
Here they are.

Dining-room

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/DiningRoomAlex3.jpg

Chinese Gallery (Main rooms)

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 18, 2005, 06:25:06 AM
Svetabel,
The Chinese Gallery url doesn't seem to work. Can you try again?
Thanks,
BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 18, 2005, 07:30:58 AM
Here it is. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/ChineseGalleryArsenalWingMainRoomsA.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 21, 2005, 03:40:07 AM
The rooms of the Emperor Nikolay I. They were on the ground floor.
Today only private appartments (except the Arsenal Room)

The Gothic Gallery (looks marvellous!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Gothic_Gallery_Nik_I.jpg

The Rooms of the Emperor

Main (Big) Military Study

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/MainMilitaryStudy_Nik_I_a.jpg

Corner Study

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Corner_Study_Nik_I.jpg

Bedroom of the Imperial couple. You can see on the left wall 2 portraits of the daughters of Nikolay I.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bedroom_nik_and_alexfed.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 21, 2005, 03:52:14 AM
And the rooms of the Empress Alexandra Fedorovna, spouse of Nikolay I.

The Bathroom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bathroom_alexfed.jpg

Main Study

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Main_study_alexFed.jpg/

The Drawing Room. The portrait of the Empress itself on the left wall.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Drawing_room_AlexFed.jpg

The Oak Study. Very cozy and beautiful room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Oak_study_alexFed.jpg

(The bust of Adini, GD Alexandra Nikolayevna, youngest daughter of the Empress you can see in the corner)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Oak_study_alexFed_a.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 21, 2005, 04:42:31 AM
Quote
And the rooms of the Empress Alexandra Fedorovna, spouse of Nikolay I.

Main Study

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Main_study_alexFed.jpg/



I think the correct URL for the Main Study is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Main_study_alexFed.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 21, 2005, 05:34:15 AM
Thanks, Bob!  :)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 29, 2005, 03:29:51 AM
Here is the Arsenal Room on the ground floor. It's named "Hall " in the floorplan that Brian had posted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Arsenal_room.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Arsenal_room2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Arsenal_room3.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 29, 2005, 03:33:57 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Arsenal_room4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Arsenal_room5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Arsenal_room6.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 29, 2005, 04:45:34 AM
Svetabel,
I'm amaze at the collection of items in this room!  Pianos, stuffed bears, Chinese Porcellain, Stag horns and the amazing hanging boat!  It must have been an amazing playroom for Alexander and Marie's children (and probably grandchildren).

Where all the pictures taken at the same time?  It almost looks like some things were added (like display cases) when Gatchina was opened as a museum.

BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 29, 2005, 05:24:38 AM
Quote
Svetabel,
It must have been an amazing playroom for Alexander and Marie's children (and probably grandchildren).

Where all the pictures taken at the same time? It almost looks like some things were added (like display cases) when Gatchina was opened as a museum.

BobG


The room was a treasure by all means! :) At least 3 generations of the Romanov loved the room!

Certainly some things were added after 1917 year.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 05, 2005, 05:15:29 AM
Main Entrance to the Arsenal Wing - staircase and hall

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/MarbleStaircase_mainEntrance.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Main_hall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Main_hall_1.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 05, 2005, 06:33:12 AM
Svetabel,
I always get excited when I see a new post listed on the main board from you -- I know another group of wonderful photos will be posted!

Does the source of the photos happen to mention the name or artiist of the large painting in the Main Hall photo?  It looks like a wonderful painting and I was curious as to its history.

Thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 05, 2005, 06:49:42 AM
That is a famous painting of the Nikolay I's family. It seems I posted it somewhere in "the Imperial family' thread. I can't remember the artist  :-[
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 05, 2005, 06:56:12 AM
BTW, thanks for your kind words,Bob! :)

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 09, 2005, 04:09:17 AM


Here is a link to ebay sales. THIS IS THE BOOK which contains all those wonderful photos  I have posted!!!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 09, 2005, 05:25:08 AM
Svetabel,
Thanks for giving us the ebay information.  I'm afraid the price starts a little too high for me, although it certainly is a fabulous looking book.  I wonder if anything like these archival phots where ever published in a book about the Alexander Palace?
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 09, 2005, 05:35:13 AM
Quote
Svetabel,
Thanks for giving us the ebay information. I'm afraid the price starts a little too high for me, although it certainly is a fabulous looking book. I wonder if anything like these archival phots where ever published in a book about the Alexander Palace?
Bob


The price is really  high I agree. >:(
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 09, 2005, 05:39:42 AM
I hope that you will continue to share the photos when you get the chance. I have been enjoying learning so much how Alexander and Marie lived.  
I would love to get the book, but I'm afraid I'll have to rely on your generosity in sharing the photos with us.
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 12, 2005, 02:19:42 AM
The rooms of Alexander II and his spouse Maria Alexandrovna

Study of Alexander II
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Study_alex2_1.jpg)

Reception room of A II

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Receptionroom_alex2.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 12, 2005, 02:27:02 AM
Drawing room of A II

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Drawingroom_Alex2.jpg

Bedroom of A II and MA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/bedroom_alex2marialex.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 12, 2005, 02:34:35 AM
Bathroom of Maria Alexandrovna. Does not look like a bathroom at all! :) I am sure that the portrait of GD Olga Fedorovna was placed on the wall by museum workers .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bathroom_mariAlex.jpg

Study of MA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Study_mariaAlex.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Study_mariaAlex_1.jpg

Drawing room of MA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Drawingroom_MariaAlex.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 12, 2005, 04:53:04 AM
Svetabel,
Thanks for continuing to take the effort to scan and post these wonderful pictures.  I know it has to be time consuming and an extra effort, but sharing them is so very generous and I know how I (and I'm sure others) appreciate them.

It fascinates me how each new generation of the family would move into new rooms and maintain the old rooms almost as museums.  I have to assume that is how Alexander III and Maria Feodorovna ended up on the mezzanine: they had to keep Nicholas I and Alexandra Feordorovna's and Alexander II and Maria Alexandrovna's rooms intact.

By the way, Brian's plan shows a "Bear Staircase."  This seems like a translation of something different. Do you know if there is another name for it?  And do you have a picture of it?  

Thanks again,
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 12, 2005, 06:01:42 AM
Quote

By the way, Brian's plan shows a "Bear Staircase." This seems like a translation of something different. Do you know if there is another name for it? And do you have a picture of it?



Hmm, I'll check the pictures in the book...
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 12, 2005, 06:15:31 AM
Quote
It fascinates me how each new generation of the family would move into new rooms and maintain the old rooms almost as museums. I have to assume that is how Alexander III and Maria Feodorovna ended up on the mezzanine: they had to keep Nicholas I and Alexandra Feordorovna's and Alexander II and Maria Alexandrovna's rooms intact.



You know, Bob, the rooms of Alexander II and MA look...strange. I mean that they are definitely not the same as in the 1860-1880s...The portraits are not suited to the period. I mentioned Olga Fedorovna's portrait IN THE BATHROOM! The Bathroom resembles a sitting-room..Moreover, look at a portrait og GDss Olga Alexandrovna, youngest daughter of Alexander III - it is on the wall in the Drawing room of MA - the Empress died before Olga's appearance...and so on...I think museum workers changed much in the rooms - furniture, paintings...
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on December 12, 2005, 01:15:42 PM
Quote

You know, Bob, the rooms of Alexander II and MA look...strange. I mean that they are definitely not the same as in the 1860-1880s...The portraits are not suited to the period. I mentioned Olga Fedorovna's portrait IN THE BATHROOM! The Bathroom resembles a sitting-room.


Yes Sveta, I know what you mean but haven't you ever seen the famous watercolours of Hau or Premazzi: except the portrait of Olga Fedorovna it is the same it is in the photo you posted.

So to me it was more a budoir and the bath itself was in the rear room. Just a theory....


Besides I do not know who is Olga Fedorovna. Is she the wife of Mikhail Nikolaevitch? If yes what does her portrait do in that room?? ???
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on December 12, 2005, 01:18:42 PM
Sveta,

can you identify the people in the study of MA?
Are they portraits of the adult sons of AlexII?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 12, 2005, 01:29:39 PM
Quote
Sveta,

can you identify the people in the study of MA?
Are they portraits of the adult sons of AlexII?


They are 2 brothers of Alexander II - Grand Dukes Konstantin and Nikolay.



Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 12, 2005, 01:36:41 PM
Quote


Besides I do not know who is Olga Fedorovna. Is she the wife of Mikhail Nikolaevitch? If yes what does her portrait do in that room?? ???


:) That's what I wanted to say! A portrait of Olga Fedorovna (she was the wife of Gd Mikhail you are correct) in MA's bathroom! ;) Moreover the painting is a copy not an original as I've just read in the book.


Oh, Bob, as for your question about Bear Staircase - I have not find out info on it but I'll keep on searching.



Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on December 12, 2005, 01:43:18 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/436af796.jpg)

Anyway it is exactly the same, just the portraits were changed.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 12, 2005, 05:22:43 PM
Can anyone identify the painting in the watercolor that was replaced by Olga Feodorovna's portrait?
Bob G
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 13, 2005, 01:28:31 AM
I can't identify  :(


The Bear Staircase really exists, the translation is correct. It connected with the Marble Staircase. I have not seen any pic of it  :(
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 13, 2005, 01:38:26 AM
Yesterday I was looking one more time  :) through the catalogue of Mihaly Zichy's watercolours (I had been at the Ziochy's exbition at the Hermitage) and saw 2 paintings: one of them portayed a party at the Arsenal Room and the other - an evening at the theatre in Gatchina Palace. I think the pics are quite interesting and I'll post them soon.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 14, 2005, 03:24:42 AM
Quote
Yesterday I was looking one more time :) through the catalogue of Mihaly Zichy's watercolours (I had been at the Ziochy's exbition at the Hermitage) and saw 2 paintings: one of them portayed a party at the Arsenal Room and the other - an evening at the theatre in Gatchina Palace. I think the pics are quite interesting and I'll post them soon.


The pictures:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/arsenalroom1859.jpg

The Arsenal Room in 1859. The artist M.Zichy portrayed
a family-party of the Romanovs and their friends.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 14, 2005, 03:26:31 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/theatreGatchina1859.jpg

The Romanovs (in the front row) and others in the theatre of Gatchina Palace.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 14, 2005, 05:26:55 AM
Svetabel,
Those are wonderful pictures. It made me wonder if there is a picture of the theatre in your book? The balcony seems very high in the painting. It would be interesting to see if it looks like the painting.
Bob

PS The book sold on ebay for $205!!! And I thought $45 was high.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on December 14, 2005, 06:29:37 AM
Quote

PS The book sold on ebay for $205!!! And I thought $45 was high.



I do not know who bought the book but I made him pay it very at a very high price!

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on December 14, 2005, 06:31:15 AM
Thanks Sveta!!  :) :D

I had never seen the theatre before!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 14, 2005, 07:31:07 AM
Quote


I do not know who bought the book but I made him pay it very at a very high price!



;D
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 14, 2005, 07:37:05 AM
Quote
PS The book sold on ebay for $205!!! And I thought $45 was high.


I bought it for 15 $.... ::) :-X
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 14, 2005, 08:40:37 AM
Svetabel,
Just promise you won't put it on Ebay until you've posted all the photos for those of us who can't afford $205 books!!!
You've got yourself a great investment.  And it is wonderful that you are sharing it.
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 21, 2005, 02:08:01 AM
Bob,possibly sad news but I posted all the pictures of the Arsenal Wing from that wonderful book. Although there are many photos of the Main Wing there. I believe they are interesting too, what do you think?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 21, 2005, 05:38:33 AM
Svetabel,
I think it would be wonderful to see the photos from the book, but I hesitate to ask you to post them.  The arsenal wing photos are ones we could never see anywhere else, but the main palace is more available on the web.  I guess the question is: are these photos unique enough to ask you to talk the time and effort to post them?  Or do you have photos from other books that you think would be more worth taking the time to share?  
You've certainly contributed enough to have us all owe you a big debt of gratitude!
Bob
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 21, 2005, 06:17:42 AM
Quote
Svetabel,
I think it would be wonderful to see the photos from the book, but I hesitate to ask you to post them. The arsenal wing photos are ones we could never see anywhere else, but the main palace is more available on the web. I guess the question is: are these photos unique enough to ask you to talk the time and effort to post them? Or do you have photos from other books that you think would be more worth taking the time to share?
You've certainly contributed enough to have us all owe you a big debt of gratitude!
Bob


Thanks for you kind words, Bob. :) Actually I am always ready to share rare pics as I know exactly that sort of feeling when you want to see something you are interested in and you can't get! :( For example I can't get many wonderful English and German books for some reasons - price or rarity...

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: dp5486 on March 01, 2006, 04:53:13 PM
Gatchina Palace was owned by the Dowager Empress. I think I read that at the time of Grand Duke Michael's abdication, Countess Brasova was living at Gatchina. Is this correct? I also read that Grand Duke George Mikhailovich was living here during the revolution. I thought he lived elsewhere though...

Any additional info?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Tsarfan on March 02, 2006, 05:31:00 AM
Grand Duke Michael and Natasha (Countess Brassova) had bought a rather modest house in the town of Gatchina. I believe this is where she was living, not at the palace.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: dp5486 on March 02, 2006, 08:17:47 AM
Thank you for clearing that up. I must have been confused. I guess Grand Duke George lived in the town of Gatchina not actually in the palace.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Chelsea on April 03, 2006, 07:15:37 PM
I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the kennel at Gatchina and whether or not it was still standing...
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 03, 2006, 10:45:03 PM
I will ask about the kennel. I shall be there in 2 weeks time.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Chelsea on April 05, 2006, 12:45:39 PM
Quote
I will ask about the kennel. I shall be there in 2 weeks time.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 26, 2006, 06:49:39 AM
Apparently the kennel is gone.  The palace itself, although by no means  even partially  restored, is a very interesting visit if a bit out-of-the-way.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Belochka on April 26, 2006, 10:08:11 PM
Quote
Apparently the kennel is gone. The palace itself, although by no means even partially restored, is a very interesting visit if a bit out-of-the-way.

Hi Robert,

Did you travel there by train? What were you able to see on this visit?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 27, 2006, 03:45:53 AM
We drove. The so-called "state rooms" are fitted as galleries, excellent tapestries amongst other treasures.  You can see where restoration is ongoing in some parts of the palace, the chapel is interesting, especially as it is where GD Olga was married I think- according to the matron, or whatever those church ladies are called. The Arsenal wing is not open to the public. The gardens are interesting as well, although a bit shabby having just come out of winter.  The Malta Priory Palave is also very intersting, especially as it is sparkling for an upcoming conference on the Order in Russia.
 The village of Gatchina is sweet, very clean & friendly. They do not get many foreign visitors there. This will all change soon, as the jurisdiction is going from one province to another and the authority will soon be St.Petersburg palace museums.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Belochka on April 27, 2006, 06:26:52 AM
Thanks Robert.

Is there a book store on the Palace grounds?

I am actually waiting at this moment for a new book on Gatchina and its monuments that is winging its way to me from St. P.

Thanks again
 :)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 27, 2006, 11:00:12 AM
Yes, they have a nice bookshop at the palace. I bought 2 volumes and almost a 3rd. I passed on it though as it was VERY heavy and in German- on PAVLOSK palace !
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Belochka on April 27, 2006, 07:48:39 PM
Hi Robert,

I was told that there was a nice bookshop there, but since you failed to mention it I assumed that it might have closed as part of the ongoing "[ch1088][ch1077][ch1084][ch1086][ch1085][ch1090]" (repairs). Much to my relief it hasn't. Now I can't wait to visit it ...

Thanks,

Margarita
:)

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Chelsea on April 28, 2006, 06:16:59 PM
Quote
Apparently the kennel is gone. The palace itself, although by no means even partially restored, is a very interesting visit if a bit out-of-the-way.


I suspected that was the case but it is still disappointing. My family has always had Borzois so I thought it would be an interesting place to visit... I hope you had a wonderful visit though and thank you so much for asking for me!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 02, 2006, 02:41:34 AM
Hi Robert,

You said about Gatchina: "The village of Gatchina is sweet, very clean & friendly. They do not get many foreign visitors there. This will all change soon, as the jurisdiction is going from one province to another and the authority will soon be St.Petersburg palace museums. "

What is the sense please,could you be clearer?
Thanks Vassili
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 02, 2006, 03:05:31 AM
Hi Vassili
 I was told that the palace & park will be transfered to the St. Petersburg museums complex group. It is now under the local provincial authority, and therefore does not get much funding. When this happens, more effort to attract visitors will ensue, generating more revenue for the various projects as well as money from the government.
 Apparently, this is the eventual plan for Oranienbaum as well.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on June 12, 2006, 10:50:34 PM
A tunnel under Gatchina Palace

(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5278/10batunnelundergatchinapalace1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on June 12, 2006, 10:53:05 PM
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2513/04b10qz.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on June 12, 2006, 10:54:18 PM
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1623/07b14av.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on June 12, 2006, 10:55:30 PM
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9171/09b12ga.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Jay on June 14, 2006, 12:58:46 PM
 :) Those photos are magnificent!! Thanks guys! I'm doing a lot of research on the palace and am wondering if there's any good books I should acquire? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated and thankyou in advance.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Arleen on June 15, 2006, 01:20:44 PM
Reco, as usual great pictures.....I am really interested in the tunnel picture.
Did you take it yourself or if you posted from a book please let us know what you know about it.  

It looks too finished and big to be one of the secret/escape tunnels we have heard so much about.  Is it some sort of "service" tunnel?  To get from one wing to the other or etc?

Thanks for posting, I am really into the tunnels of this building.

Arleen
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on June 15, 2006, 02:18:34 PM
Many thanks Arleen,

Generally, I find the images on the Web. I have also some art books but they are not recent.

There is no always description of the images. Often the inscription is false. Example: one writes
Palais of the Hermitage and I recognize a part of Peterhof !

I am interested much more in architecture that with the history.

Reco
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 23, 2006, 03:18:33 AM
I'm posting several pictures taken of Gatchina in 1915 by Prince Feodor Alexandrovich, MF's grandson. The rooms aren't specified. It only mentions that they were in Gatchina.

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/gatchina19153.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 23, 2006, 03:19:04 AM
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina1915-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 23, 2006, 03:19:35 AM
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina1915.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 23, 2006, 03:20:24 AM
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina4.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 23, 2006, 03:20:51 AM
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina3.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 23, 2006, 03:55:34 AM
One of the other posters has informed me that the pictures I've posted aren't showing up. Oddly enough I can see them perfectly on the screen when I have visited each page. I'm not sure what the problem is. I apologize for the inconvience. Here are links to the originals at photo bucket.

Gatchina's Exterior

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/gatchina19153.jpg

Interior photos of Gatchina

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina1915-2.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina3.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina4.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina1915.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on October 23, 2006, 01:31:16 PM
Well, I can see you pictures. Nice interiors of the Main Wing of the Palace. :)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on October 23, 2006, 01:43:27 PM
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina1915.jpg)

To me this is not Gatchina, it is Elagin Palace.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 23, 2006, 04:55:57 PM
MFs grandson, in his album, indicated that it was a picture of Gatchina
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on October 24, 2006, 09:15:22 AM
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/Gatchina3.jpg)

This is Elagin Palace too.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on October 24, 2006, 09:17:35 AM
MFs grandson, in his album, indicated that it was a picture of Gatchina

If I am not mistaken Empress Maria Feodorovna used Elagin Palace too.

Anyway if you still have doubts look at this page:

http://www.panoramas.classic-ru.org/palace/elagin1.html (http://www.panoramas.classic-ru.org/palace/elagin1.html)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 24, 2006, 07:18:14 PM
I wasn't trying to contradict you. I can only tell you that they are marked (or mismarked) as Gatchina in the book Romanov Fragments de Vie. Thank you for the correction.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on October 25, 2006, 10:49:38 AM
I wasn't trying to contradict you. I can only tell you that they are marked (or mismarked) as Gatchina in the book Romanov Fragments de Vie. Thank you for the correction.

It's very interesting and a bit strange that Grand Duke Fedor himself made these mistakes, considering also that he used to live in those palaces!

Anyway thanks again for these wonderful pics :)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: lori_c on October 25, 2006, 12:53:03 PM
Thanks for the great photos.  Just out of curiosity, it is rumoured that the bed that Tsar Paul I died on was kept somewhere locked away at Gatchina.  Does anybody know if this is true?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 26, 2006, 08:41:41 PM
Can anyone confirm if this is the cabinet study of Marie Feodorovna at Gatchina as the vaulted ceiling is representative of their suite of rooms:
www.gazeta.ru/files/840450/mari6.jpg

Also can anyone identify the uniform that MF is wearing in this rare photograph? Is it possibly one of the Gatchina regiments?
www.gazeta.ru/files/840450/odi.jpg

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 27, 2006, 04:48:56 AM
Joanna,
The first picture is definitely from Marie Feodorovna and Alexander's suite at Gatchina.  I have seen the room described as Marie Feodorovna's Drawing Room
BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: gleb on November 28, 2006, 10:56:45 AM
Joanna,
The first picture is definitely from Marie Feodorovna and Alexander's suite at Gatchina.  I have seen the room described as Marie Feodorovna's Drawing Room
BobG

I agree.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Sarushka on November 29, 2006, 07:57:49 AM
Also can anyone identify the uniform that MF is wearing in this rare photograph? Is it possibly one of the Gatchina regiments?
www.gazeta.ru/files/840450/odi.jpg

Here's another photo of her in the same uniform, if it's of help:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/AIII/th_Uniform.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/AIII/Uniform.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on November 29, 2006, 11:56:35 AM
Marie Feodorovna was Chief of two regiments, I believe:
the Chevaliers-Gardes and her Own Guards Cuirassiers.

In some thread ( I haven't a clue which one), the uniforms were descriibed as:

Quote:
"feminine version of uniforms of the Chevaliers-Gardes and her Own Guards Cuirassiers (white form fitting tunic and long skirt)"
Unquote

The Guards Cuirassiers uniform might be the one in the photographs. (The description seems accurate.)


BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Remio on December 03, 2006, 12:31:05 PM
good morning everybody!!
Would someone have a photograph
 of Maria Feodorovna's bedroom which has been retored? Thank you.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on December 03, 2006, 02:36:39 PM
good morning everybody!!
Would someone have a photograph
 of Maria Feodorovna's bedroom which has been retored? Thank you.

Restored bedroom of MF in Gatchina palace? ??? Such a photo doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on December 04, 2006, 06:58:32 AM
The restored bedroom would be Paul I's wife Maria Feodrorovna.  I think it is also referred to as the STATE BEDROOM.

I'm sure there are pictures on the Gatchina Museum web site. (I don't have the URL at the moment.  Can anyone else provide it.

BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Remio on December 04, 2006, 11:19:46 AM
Yes of course, it's the state bedroom. In fact I post this question because I saw this picture :


http://www.flickr.com/photos/kendradrischler/212530915/

That's good the state bedroom and I was wondering if the bed had been restored!! ;)Thank you.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on December 04, 2006, 03:24:48 PM
Gatchina at the time of its magnifiscience...

(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/63/gatchinasq7.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatchinasq7.jpg)

Vassili

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Remio on December 09, 2006, 03:34:06 AM
I found a picture of Maria Feodorovna's bedroom, and we can see that
there is still a lot of job :

http://www.gatchina.ru/homepage/galisp/photolarge/opochiv.jpg
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 13, 2007, 10:50:03 AM
Gatchina palace, ground floor plan (1860 ca):

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b172/amedeo_9/RUSSIA/Gac-pl-.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 13, 2007, 10:53:49 AM
I would like to know more about this staircase:

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b172/amedeo_9/RUSSIA/gac-pl-d-a-1-.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 13, 2007, 10:55:32 AM
Have you got any pics and informations about it?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 16, 2007, 06:15:54 AM
http://www.asergeev.com/php/searchph/search.php?test=&keywords=gatchina&mode=&year1=1996&month1=1&day1=1&year2=2006&month2=12&day2=31&lum=&hue=&order=AUTO
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 16, 2007, 06:20:58 AM
It is an interesting site with photos of Gatchina's room.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on February 23, 2007, 10:24:36 AM
A Sitting room in the Arsenal wing of the Gatchina palace. Ths site says it's a Chintz Sitting room  :-\

http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2008021262 (http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2008021262)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 09, 2007, 03:29:29 AM
Does some konws about the jardin des plantes of Gatchina?

It was built in 1793 and suffered of great changes during the 19th century,the house of the gardener has disappeared in the 19th century too...Do some have pics or info?
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/lvovwork.jpg)

Views of Gatchina park
http://history-gatchina.ru/part/fpark.php
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/favorit9.jpg)
 Does anyone come back to Gatchina after the restoration of the enfilade?
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/anfilada.jpg)
http://history-gatchina.ru/article/anfilada.htm
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 09, 2007, 03:41:14 AM
At the occasion of the reburial of Alexandra Feodorovna,wife of the tzar Alexander III,yhis exhibit aims at showing what the atmospher in the palce of Gatchina could have been...

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/alex1.jpg)

http://history-gatchina.ru/events/amanege.htm
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 09, 2007, 03:48:01 AM
The website of Gatchina deals with a movie turned there in 2006(Ораниенбаум. Серебряный самурай),has it always been  projected?

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/samurai30.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/samurai2-1.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/samurai13.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/samurai20.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: ChristineM on March 09, 2007, 04:10:55 AM
Wonderful illustrations, Vassili, and I am afraid I cannot help with those.   However, the Scottish archictect and landscaper, Adam Menelaws, was active at Gatchina around this time.   He built the Priorat on the orders of Emperor Paul, using his latest invention - hugely money-saving, bricks made from earth.   I understand this utterly unique building has recently been restored.   Unfortunately I have not seen it and have no idea if earth bricks were specially recreated for the purposes of its restoration.

tsaria
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 09, 2007, 04:12:12 AM
I've noticed that an historical parade was played in 2005 in gatchina,could someone tell me on what occasion?
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/platzparad1.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/platzparad3.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/platzparad6.jpg)
http://history-gatchina.ru/events/platzparad.htm

I've found this pic of the tricentenary of St Petersburg egg ,designed by the descendant of Faberg ,egg that could be seen as far as I understand in Gatchina now...
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/open.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/egg.jpg)

This is one of the eggs offered by Nicolas II to his mother ALxandra F.,it is a panorama of Gatchina...
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/karl.jpg)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 09, 2007, 04:38:59 AM
I did not know thta so many movies where turned in this imperial palace ,that's great...This movie seems to be an adaptation of Andersen fairy tales"настоящей принцессы" amovie of Riazanov.

The first part is dedicated to 18th century stories whereas in the second one appears the german nazi troops in the palce which is supposed to be in Copenhag... Some pics that I esteem intestesting in the idea that russian invasion by nazis should have been far of this...http://history-gatchina.ru/events/ryazanov.htm


(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/ryazanov1.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/ryazanov37.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/ryazanov29.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/ryazanov26.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/ryazanov18.jpg)


Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 09, 2007, 04:45:04 AM
Tsaria,

Tahnks anyway for your answer,it is really kind of you to pay attention to my posts,I really appreciate you to have spent a little time to send something.

Vassia
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2007, 12:32:50 PM
Let me answer some questions relating to various events at Gatchina palace and parks.

The film "Oranienbaum. The Silver Samurai" is being produced as a 12-part TV serial, staged intermittently in our time and in Oranienbaum in 1762, when Peter III was overthrown by Catherine II. Not screened yet.

Another movie is "Andersen: Life Without Love" by renowned director Eldar Ryazanov (premiered in December 2006). It includes scenes from Andersen's lifetime, from his fairy tales and from German occupation of Copenhagen in 1941 - all filmed at Gatchina.

The Imperial uniforms parade was a historical reconstruction in August 2005, in honor of no specific event.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 14, 2007, 01:10:05 PM
Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: EnricdeG on June 30, 2007, 02:08:29 PM
I have find a very interesting watercolors in Gatchina's Museum webpage  http://museum.gatchina.ru/virx/virx.htm
but there are some pictures that I can't situate. I think that some rooms were located in the second and ground floor of the main wing of the palace, but I don't have any plans of these areas. Anyone can help me?  :-\
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: NAAOTMA on June 30, 2007, 07:11:47 PM
When I was at Gatchina just before Dagmar's reburial, the palace guide who took me and my private guide around pointed out where Alexander III's dog Kamchatka is buried in the garden near the Arsenal wing. Alexander III's favorite dog was killed in the train crash at Borki, and was brought home to be buried in the garden close to the family's private quarters.

She also took us to the chapel, which is still scarred and gutted, but now returned to being used as a church. There is a huge icon of Nicholas and his family at the center of the chapel. The chapel is round, located over the kitchen, and reached by a broad shallow iron staircase that winds around the outiside of the chapel walls.Despite being so destroyed, the chapel has a great feeling of peace and has something very touching about it that is lost when things are restored within in inch of their life. Someday the chapel will be restored as perfectly as the chapel at Pavlovsk now is, but it won't have the character it currently has---nor the tremendous sense of history. All I could think of while there was that the same paint on the walls was there when the IF celebrated Christmas Eve or other family celebrations.

The day after my visit there was the Feast Day of the Birthday of the Virgin. The first big liturgy since the Revolution was to be celebrated there, and the guide was obviously pleased it was happening. I gave her a hug and also some money to buy flowers for the service there the next day.

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: dmitri on July 01, 2007, 11:19:22 PM
I was at Gatchina in January and only the central area is open. It is very slowly being restored. Some of the rooms are open and you can see the restoration process under way. It is worth also visiting Pavlovsk as the two palaces have similar interiors as they were decorated for Tsar Paul 1 and his consort Empress Maria Feodorovna. The Nazi Germans set the place on fire and destroyed the lot in their closing days in Russia. The Arsenal Wing is closed and nothing remains. It is still a very imposing structure. The best way to visit is with an Intourist guide with your own driver.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nemos on August 20, 2007, 07:11:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHi3SXlTsfM

1941 , .
Small video 1941, occupation.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: dmitri on August 25, 2007, 12:09:15 AM
If you go to Gatchina there are photos of the destruction caused during world war 2 by the Nazi German forces. Today it is still undergoing restoration and is quite worth a visit to see what has been restored and also to see the talented restoration workers working steadily on the work. One day it will be restored to its former glory. Sadly it is not on the main tourist routes. I went there with my english speaking guide who translated for me as the Gatchina guides are very knowledgable, but only speak Russian.   
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on August 27, 2007, 05:43:44 AM
Interesting video, It would be fine to understand the comments however the ics are interesting to see.

Thanks,
v.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nemos on November 26, 2007, 03:12:22 PM
?
And how this cathedral in Gatchina refers to?

http://pushkin-history.info/fotoalbom-old-1-/5262.html
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on November 27, 2007, 02:17:44 AM
?
And how this cathedral in Gatchina refers to?

http://pushkin-history.info/fotoalbom-old-1-/5262.html

The Apostle Paul Cathedral.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nemos on November 27, 2007, 02:40:51 AM
, ?
Thanks, and who the architect?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 27, 2007, 01:09:23 PM
Street view of Apostle Paul Cathedral:
http://gatchina3000.ru/cards/pages/13_Gatchina-City_view-Sobornaja_street-View_on_the_cathedral_jpg.htm

Architect R. Kuzmin (sp?) Р. И. Кузьмина c1852.

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 10, 2008, 10:54:27 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ndalls/524921186/sizes/o/
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 10, 2008, 11:05:05 AM
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/searchbrowse?q=gatchina&uname=vvlasuk&psc=G&filter=1#18
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: amedeo on February 10, 2008, 11:09:13 AM
http://picasaweb.google.com/ggh812/Gatchina
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on February 25, 2008, 11:31:53 PM
I have find a very interesting watercolors in Gatchina's Museum webpage  http://museum.gatchina.ru/virx/virx.htm
but there are some pictures that I can't situate. I think that some rooms were located in the second and ground floor of the main wing of the palace, but I don't have any plans of these areas. Anyone can help me?  :-\


click on image for larger version


ground floor of the Arsenal block
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatgrndflarsenalblock.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatgrndflarsenalblock.jpg)


mezzanine of the Arsenal block
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatchmezarsenalblock.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatchmezarsenalblock.jpg)


1st floor of the Arsenal block
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatch1stflarsenalblock.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatch1stflarsenalblock.jpg)


ground floor of the main block
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatgrndflmainblock.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatgrndflmainblock.jpg)


1st floor of the main block
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatch1stflmainblock.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatch1stflmainblock.jpg)


1st floor of the Kitchen block
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatch1stflkitchenblock.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatch1stflkitchenblock.jpg)



.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on June 27, 2008, 06:22:30 PM
Joanna has asked me to post photos from her recent visit to Gatchina.  Here's what she said:

To understand the rooms, this is the order of how I walked around the wing. It starts on the private garden side. I still have to check my books/plans to identify the actual rooms c1900s against what is displayed today. As there are 21 images, I will send it in three parts ok. Let me know if you do receive otherwise I will try with my yahoo account.
 
F1000020 - Displayed Plan - fuzzy and as I said I will need to check my files as the colored portion does not seem to relate to the layout I walked through
F1000016 - Large entrance room after ascending the stairs.
F1000017 - The corridor that separates the enfilades of rooms - at the end are windows that face the right side of the wing which is the path leading from the bridge  - to the left would be the private garden and to the right faces the inner courtyard.
F1000029 - Looking down the enfilade - windows face the private garden
F1000030 - Identified as Xenia's room - whether it corresponds c1900s I am not sure nor if the furniture is from that period
F1000031 - Private garden - view of Kamchatka's grave
F1000032 - Next room - notice the door to the corridor I think rather than another little room that you will see further on. This room may be easier to identify with c1900s as the style is unique.
 
Best Regards
Joanna

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000020.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000020.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000016.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000016.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000017.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000017.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000029.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000029.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000030.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000030.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000031.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000031.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000032.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000032.jpg)

More to come
Bob G
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on June 27, 2008, 06:25:57 PM
More photos Joanna asked me to post for her:

F1000025 - Interior bathroom
F1000026 - Next - notice on the left a descriptive summary
F1000027 - Small connecting doorway leading to end room
F1000028 - End room - study
F1000021 - Another view
F1000022 - Enfilade along right side of wing
F1000023 - Corridor

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000025.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000025.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000026.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000026.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000027.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000027.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000028.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000028.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000021.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000021.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000022.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000022.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000023.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000023.jpg)

BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on June 27, 2008, 06:29:44 PM
Final group of Joanna's Pictures:

Her descriptions:
F1000024 - Identified as Marie's study/boudoir
F1000033 - M's study
F1000034 - M's study
F1000035 - looking back to AIII's study
F1000036 - I backtracked to photograph more - AIII's study
F1000018 - Marie's Bedroom - this is the small room on the right side of the corridor in F1000017
F1000019 - M's Bedroom - window faces courtyard

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000024.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000024.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000033.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000033.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000034.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000034.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000035.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000035.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000036.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000036.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000018.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000018.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000019.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Joanna%20Gatchina/F1000019.jpg)

I'm sure we all appreciate Joanna sharing her fine pix.
BobG
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Michael HR on June 28, 2008, 05:42:11 AM
What simply superb photos. Gives you a real impression of the Palace and where the IF lived. Not as big as I thought but quite cosy as well.

Was it GD Michael that lived there before the revolution?

I think I shall add the Palace to my places to visit when I manage to get to St. P in the fall.

Michael.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Condecontessa on June 28, 2008, 11:10:30 AM
Thank you Joanna and BobG for sharing. I thoroughly enjoyed viewing the photos.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Amy on June 30, 2008, 01:27:24 PM
Adding another thanks for the pictures.

I've always had such a difficult time imaging AII living in these rooms. Perhaps the ceilings seem so low in comparison to the typical ceiling heights in the other palaces, but still it looks like he'd constantly kerplunk his head any time he stood up!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Michael HR on June 30, 2008, 06:22:40 PM
They look like they may have been at some point intended as servants quarters? I say this as the rooms seem to be in the roof due to the ceilings?


Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Amy on June 30, 2008, 06:24:31 PM
The rooms are in the enfilade, the floor between the first (bottom) & the second.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 30, 2008, 08:28:51 PM
Gatchina is actually quite huge.. The rooms of Alex. III were not open yet when I visited in 2006 [?] But they are just a tiny part of the whole.  If I can find them, I will post some of the pics I have from that visit. The town itself is a pleasant visit. Much cheaper than  St. Petersburg and Pavlosk. And good connections [rail & bus]. It is not the prettiest of palaces of the Romanovs, but still impressive enough to warrant a visit.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on July 01, 2008, 12:57:59 AM
Wonderful photos! Thanks Joanna and BobG.

Amusingly enough that living in St-Petersbourg (and so 40 km from Gatchina) I sometimes even don't know about new expositions. Actually foreign tourists are often luckier in taking new photos. :) Thanks again.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Amy on July 01, 2008, 08:42:55 AM
I woke up this morning realizing that enfilade is not the correct word for the floor between floors. I'm sorry for any confusion I may have caused. The only problem is I can't remember what the correct word is! Entrasole? Entrasal? I'm pretty sure it's a French word but google is not being very helpful right now. Perhaps some one who does know the right word will be kind enough to post it...

eta: Entering entrasol into m-w.com proved useful: it's ENTRESOL. And, according to m-w.com's definition, we English speaking people might use the word mezzanine instead.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Valmont on July 01, 2008, 09:14:37 AM
I think the "Mezzanine" is the correct word.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 01, 2008, 06:41:17 PM
To give a sense of the location of the Arsenal mezzanine:


Palace courtyard with the Arsenal on the right. The mezzanine is the row of small windows between the larger ones of the first and second floor. Although they appear very small and are compared to the vast palace, the photo of Alexander's study shows that they were actually bigger to a degree and did light the rooms. Although having said that, it still amazes me that Alexander IIIs family with five children and maids/valets/nannies/tutors squeezed themselves into this small area for the long periods of time that they did reside here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Gatschina-Schloss_2006_a.jpg/800px-Gatschina-Schloss_2006_a.jpg

Plan of the palace and park:
http://gatchina3000.ru/misc/images/general_plan_palace_park_jpg.jpg

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: BobG on July 02, 2008, 11:13:43 AM
In the Gatchina topic (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1414.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1414.0)) There are some wonderful photos posted by Svetabel showing AIII & MF's rooms as they were used by them.  Unfortunately, brnbg aka: liljones1968's  plans of the family quarters are no longer available.  Maybe we can pesuade him to repost to get a sense of how extensive their suite was.
BobG

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on July 02, 2008, 07:11:51 PM
BobG,

brnbg aka: liljones1968 post the plans again in February 25, 2008, 10:31:53 PM

Many thanks to him.

Reco
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on July 10, 2008, 08:13:49 PM
Perhaps the ceilings seem so low in comparison to the typical ceiling heights in the other palaces, but still it looks like he'd constantly kerplunk his head any time he stood up!

Exactly! The ceilings seem very low for a palace. I was also thinking that even if the Alexander Palace was refurnished similar to this (fairly sparse, but getting the idea across better than blown up photos of the original rooms), it would be a much better exhibit than what's there right now.

Thank you, Joanna! Your pictures were wonderful. For some reason, I'd always pictured Gatchina as a darker place (I don't know why), so your pictures show that it must have been a much more pleasant, sunny place to live in than I'd imagined.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Douglas on July 10, 2008, 11:10:07 PM
The Imperial family lived in the mezzanine of the palace.  They did not live in the formal bedrooms and formal salons of the palace.  The rooms they occupied were intended for retainers and high ranking servants.  The Tsar felt more comfortable in these small, low ceiling rooms.  Other members of the extended family thought he was strange to live in this manner.

It is actually easier to heat these rooms than the large drafty salons.  In these small spaces he was comfortable.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Michael HR on July 11, 2008, 09:19:36 AM
Good for him. Shows he was a down to earth Tsar when you consider the Palaces he had to choose from. 
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on July 11, 2008, 04:32:14 PM
It is nice to see a ruler with little regard for ornate rooms with luxurious furnishings. It makes Alexander III seem fairly humble, seeing as he preferred to live in rooms meant for servants (even if they were higher ranking). And Douglas, you have a very good point about the heating of such rooms. They would indeed be much easier to heat with those low ceilings and the fact that those rooms were really quite small. I'd take a small, warm room over a huge, cold room any day.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Alixz on July 13, 2008, 08:33:37 AM
I wonder if the decoration is correct for the period.  If it is, I commend Alexander and Marie for that as well. 

I have always thought I would suffocate in the decor of the Alexander Palace that Alix lived in.  So many patterns and colors all competing with each other.

This one seems simple and inviting.  The furniture is beautiful.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 13, 2008, 12:13:58 PM
The photographs although great to understand the size and layout of the rooms do give a distorted idea of what was c1880s. Today the walls are painted with hues of lightness but comparing with Svetabel's photographs, the wallpapered walls, carpets and furniture covers were of different patterns and, although in black/white, I can imagine the color schemes were heavy multi-clashing. The walls were chockablock with pictures/photographs/icons and the tables were strewn with knickknacks. If the photos were taken c1920s-30s, then all the other paraphernalia of the family's life is missing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/1stDressingRoomAlexanderIII.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bedroom_AlexIII_MariaFed.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/Bedroom_AlexIII_MariaFed_3.jpg

Joanna

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on July 14, 2008, 12:54:38 PM
Wow, those photos can really make one feel a little claustrophobic. I think for me, it would feel even more cluttered in Gatchina than the AP due to those low ceilings.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 23, 2008, 08:45:42 PM
In this article on Jacobean Russian Furniture, there are some photographs of Gatchina interiors. Of one, it is enlarged sideview of what appears to be a school desk that I think may have been in the rooms of Nicholas and George. Can anyone confirm or have another opinion?

http://www.geridon.ru/zhakob_article/9b.jpg

Article:
http://www.geridon.ru/articles/?id=8

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 04, 2008, 10:40:29 PM
Photograph of the Gatchina tunnel entrance:
http://ljplus.ru/img3/v/a/valeryanna/Snimok_79.jpg

There are many photographs of exteriors/interiors of various palaces, for example:
Peterhof Cottage:
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm217/valeryanna/Alexandria%20And%20Cottedge/morskoy_cabinet_small.jpg
Poster made of Chinese Palace, Oranienbaum:
http://ljplus.ru/img3/v/a/valeryanna/100_0740.jpg

Full site:
http://valeryanna.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8+%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE+%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 14, 2008, 03:24:02 PM
Some translations so far - photographs of all the rooms that I have were c1940 and are similar to some that have been posted on this topic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatchmezarsenalblock.jpg

This should be labeled First Floor of the Arsenal Block where Alexander III had a suite of reception rooms:

1. Main Hall
2.
3.
4. Theatre
5. Chinese Gallery
6.
7.
8. 4th Reception Room of Alexander III
9. 3rd Reception Room of Alexander III
10. 2nd Reception Room of Alexander III
11. 1st Reception Room of Alexander III
12. Reception Study of Alexander III
13.
14.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatch1stflarsenalblock.jpg

Mezzanine Floor

1. Marble Staircase
2. Corridor
3.
4. Bedroom of Marie F. & Alexander III
5. Drawing Room of Marie F.
6. Dining Room
7. Private/Working Study of Alexander III
9. 1st Dressing/Wardrobe of Alexander III
10. 2nd Dressing/Wardrobe of Alexander III

Suite of Grand Duchess Xenia A.
12. Bedroom of Xenia A.
13. Study of Xenia A.
14. Bathroom of Xenia A.
15.
16.
17.
18. Drawing Room of Xenia A.

Suite of Grand Duke Mikhail A.
19.
20.
21. Study of Mikhail A.
22. Bedroom of Mikhail A.
23.
24.
25. Bathroom of Mikhail A.

Suite of Grand Dukes Nicholas A. & George A.
26.
27. Bedroom of Nicholas & George
28. Study of George A.
29.
30. Bathroom of George A.
31. Study of Nicholas A.
32. Classroom of Nicholas & George

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/gatgrndflarsenalblock.jpg

Ground Floor:

1. Marble Staircase
2. Arsenal Hall (Windows face on to Private Garden)
3.
4. Corner Study of Nicholas I
5.
6. Reception Room of Nicholas I
7.
8. Main Military Study of Nicholas I
9. Bedroom of Nicholas I and Alexandra F.
10. Bathroom of Alexandra F. wife of Nicholas I
11. Oak Study of Alexandra F.
12. Main Study of Alexandra F.
13. Drawing Room of Alexandra F.
14. Dining Room
15 Reception Room of Alexandra F.
16. Gothic Gallery (Nicholas I suite corridor facing inner courtyard)
17. Reception Room of Alexander II
18. Drawing Room of Alexander II
19. Bathroom of Alexander II
20. Study of Alexander II
21. Bedroom of Alexander II and Marie Alexandrovna
22. Bathroom of Marie A.
23. Study of Marie A.
24. Drawing Room of Marie A.
25. Dining Room
26. Reception Room of Marie A.

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Reco on December 16, 2008, 06:36:07 PM
Somebody put this plan in the forum

ground floor

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3013/gatchinaarsenalblockgrnww5.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatchinaarsenalblockgrnww5.jpg)  (http://)

mezzanine floor

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1880/gatchinamezzanineroomsrj4.th.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatchinamezzanineroomsrj4.jpg)

first floor

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1531/gatchinaarsenalfirstflzd4.th.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatchinaarsenalfirstflzd4.jpg)(http://)

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 16, 2008, 07:05:59 PM
Thanks Reco. I never did find that person's plans but they are great. My book on Gatchina interiors has Russian with written cyrillic rather than type and is confusing.

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on January 10, 2009, 12:56:28 PM
In the Gatchina topic (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1414.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1414.0)) There are some wonderful photos posted by Svetabel showing AIII & MF's rooms as they were used by them.  Unfortunately, brnbg aka: liljones1968's  plans of the family quarters are no longer available.  Maybe we can pesuade him to repost to get a sense of how extensive their suite was.
BobG


i realize the request was made a while ago (& someone else may have beaten me to it), but just in case anyone's still interested...

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 26, 2009, 01:06:14 PM
I hope nobody would mind if I posted these paintings....

Gothic gallery
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/GotickC3A1galerie.jpg)

"Equestrian" saloon
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/JezdeckC3BDsalon.jpg)

Maria Fyodorovna cabinet
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/Kabinet_Marie_Fedorovny.jpg)

Maria Fyodorovnas oak cabinet
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/dubovC3BDkabinetMarieFedorovny.jpg)

Alexandra Fyodorovnas dining room
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/jC3ADdelnaAlexandryFedorovny.jpg)

cabinet
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/kabinet.jpg)

Bathroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/koupelna.jpg)

Rotarian chamber
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/KomnatarotariC3A1nu.jpg)

chapel
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/kaple.jpg)

cabinet in the tower
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/kabinetvevC49BC5BEi.jpg)

Alexander II. s cabinet
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/kabinet_Alexandra_II.jpg)

Maria Fyodorovnas bedroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/LoC5BEniceMarieAlexandrovny.jpg)

Alexandra Fyodorovnas bedroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/LOC5BDNICEaLEXANDRYfEDOROVNY.jpg)

Bedroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/LoC5BEnice.jpg)

Paul I. s bathroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/Koupelna_pavla_I.jpg)

Maria Alexandrovnas bathroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/Koupelna_Marie_Alexandrovny.jpg)

Alexandra Fyodorovnas bathroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/Koupelna_Alexandry_Fedorovny.jpg)

Alexander II.s bathroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/koupelna_Alexandra_II.jpg)

Paul I.s circular hall
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/OvC3A1lnC3BDpokojPavlaI.jpg)

Another circular hall
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/OvC3A1lnakomnata.jpg)

Alexandra Fyodorovnas room
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/ObC3BDvacC3ADpokojAlexandryFedorovn.jpg)

Alexander II.s bedroom
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/obC3BDvacC3ADpokojaLEXANDRAII.jpg)

Another room
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/obC3BDvacC3ADpokoj.jpg)

Marble hall
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/MramorovC3A1jC3ADdelna.jpg)

Nicolas I. s small "military" room
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/MalC3BDvojenskC3BDpokojNikolajeI.jpg)

Drawing room
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/pijmacpokoj.jpg)

Before the rooms of Alexandra Fydorovna
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/pC599edpokojAlexandryFedorovny.jpg)

"walk through" between Alexander I.s rooms
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/prC5AFchozC3ADpokojvkomnatC3A1chPav.jpg)

Maria Alexandrovnas study
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/Pracovna_Marie_Alexandrovny.jpg)

Room for groom of the chamber
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/pokojprokomornC3ADka.jpg)

Maria Fyodorovnas room
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/pokoj_Marie_Fedorovny.jpg)

Nursery
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/dC49BtskC3BDpokoj2.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/gatchina/dC49BtskC3BDpokoj.jpg)

I apologize if I identified some of the rooms wrong...

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on January 27, 2009, 04:48:29 PM
Somebody put this plan in the forum

ground floor

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3013/gatchinaarsenalblockgrnww5.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatchinaarsenalblockgrnww5.jpg)  (http://)

mezzanine floor

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1880/gatchinamezzanineroomsrj4.th.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatchinamezzanineroomsrj4.jpg)

first floor

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1531/gatchinaarsenalfirstflzd4.th.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatchinaarsenalfirstflzd4.jpg)(http://)




those are the plans i labeled & posted a couple of years ago.   

incidentally, Ol'ga Aleksandrovna (sister of Nicholas II) was the only child of Aleksandr III to have rooms on the 1st floor (more formal rooms) because her nurse felt the small, dark rooms of the mezzanine to be unhealthy & insisted that Olga have rooms on the spacious & airy floor above.

i believe the rooms occupied by A III, Mariia Feodorovna, Nicholas, Georg, Xenia & Mikhail on a daily basis had, at one time, been servant's rooms -- although, Aleksandr III had a large suite of formal reception rooms  right next to Olga's rooms & directly above his & MF's private rooms.  the "duplex" were directly connected by a circular (or semi-circular) staircase (ie: the 1st floor reception rooms  &  private rooms on the mezzanine below.  that same staircase went from the ground floor all the way up to, i believe, the servants rooms on 2nd floor & corner tower of the Arsenal Block.


btw, Grand Duchess Ally, the watercolors you posted are by Hau
(& Premazzi ?)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on February 01, 2009, 04:11:26 PM
Grand duchess,

Your marvellous post made more difficult to forget that Gatchina is nowadays a palace that lost most of his originals interiors...what a loss!

Thanks a lot,
Vassia
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on April 07, 2009, 08:50:38 AM
Does anyone know if the furniture shown today, is original ? Or any of it. The original rooms are so crammed with stuff, that it is difficult to identify anything. I would go crazy living with all that clutter, and the low ceilings. Very claustrophobic. But I suppose that in the Russian winter one would do anything to keep warm and cosy. I have noticed that the family letters in those times very often contained the word "cosy" when referring to their private quarters. These rooms must be what they were referring to !       
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on June 11, 2009, 09:26:00 AM
 Just a bit of trivia........

I was looking at a book on Faberge the other day and noticed that the " Gatchina Egg" by Faberge, given to Marie Feodorovna as a gift, contains a model of the palace. It has a green roof. Does anyone know if Gatchina is supposed to have a green roof ?
Today it is a sort of dirty brown, probably the last thing people worry about because there is no money to restore it.   
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 16, 2009, 02:59:45 PM
Does anyone know if the furniture shown today, is original ? Or any of it. The original rooms are so crammed with stuff, that it is difficult to identify anything. I would go crazy living with all that clutter, and the low ceilings. Very claustrophobic. But I suppose that in the Russian winter one would do anything to keep warm and cosy. I have noticed that the family letters in those times very often contained the word "cosy" when referring to their private quarters. These rooms must be what they were referring to !       

Pavlov, in 2006 they were restoring the State Bedroom in the main section of the palace. The bed frame and railing in front were being recreated and were in the raw thick wood style. The walls/mirrors had been completed. In 2008, I was lucky to see AIII's rooms which are low ceiling. The main section with the Crimson Drawing room, etc are high ceiling or curved as noted in some of Hau's watercolors. Whether there are any original pieces, I have not been able to determine although if not, the recreation is magnificent even in AIII's suites.

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on June 17, 2009, 08:41:16 AM
Thank You
I think its marvellous that they are continuing the restoration of Gatchina, it has a magic all of its own. It is so enormous and quite off the beaten track as far as most tourists go.
I am surprised that the restoration of Gatchina seems to have gained precedence over the Alexander Palace, which is so much more " doable".
How does Gatchina compare in size to the Catherine and Winter Palaces ?

I know I can probably look this up, but someone probably has the answer.!

Regards
PAVLOV

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: ArchitectCS on August 25, 2009, 07:56:10 AM
Pavlov,

I'm afraid I don't have exact dimensions of Gatchina, but in size it is most definitely comparable to the Winter and Catherine Palaces.  I've seen Gatchina listed as having 600, 800 or even 900 rooms-don't know which of these figures is closest to the truth, but it certainly conveys the fact that Gatchina is enormous.  I have always thought it was bigger than the Catherine Palace, but I don't have anything to back that up.  Not sure if any of this is helpful (probably not) but I thought I'd answer anyway.

Does anyone have any recent photos of the restored interiors at Gatchina?  Does anyone know which rooms are currently being worked on?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on August 25, 2009, 10:06:19 AM
Thanks. I have been away so my response is very late.
Does anyone know what has happened to the enormous amount of Gatchina furniture ? Was it all sucessfully railed off as was the case with the other palaces. If so, where is it today ? Does anyone know how much was saved ? There must have been tons and tons, as it is such an enormous building, and must have contained unimaginably valuable items. 

I wonder if Gatchina is going to face the same non return issues from other palaces, as is the case at the Alexander palace ?

Isnt it horrific that the Nazi atrocities of destuction still face the countries Germany destroyed more than 60 years ago !   
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on August 25, 2009, 03:45:04 PM
Last restored rooms in the central part of the Gatchina Palace:
http://history-gatchina.ru/article/restavr.htm
http://history-gatchina.ru/article/anfilada.htm
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on August 25, 2009, 04:25:03 PM
Unrestored hall after the fire 1944. (Today it is possible to see in the Gatchina Palace only.)
http://www.photosight.ru/photos/2817951/

The opportunity to visit such rooms is very interesting. It is like a time machine! Especially if you are alone in the room.


Photos of the restored halls:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/condor213/view/60247?page=2

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/condor213/view/60499?page=3

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/condor213/view/60505?page=3
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: ArchitectCS on August 28, 2009, 01:50:10 PM

Vladimir,

Thanks so much for the images! It's very gratifying to see that work on the palace continues.  Maybe one day we will see the palace much as it was under Alexander III.  The image of the ruined Chesme Gallery is very poignant.  It shows both what a beautiful room it used to be and how badly it has been damaged.  Fortunately, there is still so much stucco on the walls that I hope we may someday see it restored very accurately.

Pavlov,

In answer to your question about furniture, not very much of it was saved and Gatchina is having problems getting pieces back from other palaces.  Apparently, before the war Gatchina was the #1 draw and had the most extensive collection of art and furniture, which meant it attracted Soviet attention and much of the collection was sold off.  However, that still left about 70,000 items of which only about 11,000 were evacuated.  When they were brought back after the war, most of them were sent to other museums (over 40, in fact), but scrupulous records were kept and Gatchina is trying to get it all back.  I know that a set of Gobelins has been at Pavlovsk for many years and that Gatchina can't seem to get them back, and I'm sure there are other instances too.  It's fate is really the most tragic of all the palaces. 

I got all this information from the book 'Saving the Tsars' Palaces', which I highly recommend.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Douglas on August 28, 2009, 09:43:40 PM




Here are the approx. dimensions of Gatchina Palace.  All units are in feet.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/gatchinadim.jpg)










Pavlov,

I'm afraid I don't have exact dimensions of Gatchina, but in size it is most definitely comparable to the Winter and Catherine Palaces.  I've seen Gatchina listed as having 600, 800 or even 900 rooms-don't know which of these figures is closest to the truth, but it certainly conveys the fact that Gatchina is enormous.  I have always thought it was bigger than the Catherine Palace, but I don't have anything to back that up.  Not sure if any of this is helpful (probably not) but I thought I'd answer anyway.

Does anyone have any recent photos of the restored interiors at Gatchina?  Does anyone know which rooms are currently being worked on?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on August 31, 2009, 03:16:58 PM
Thanks for your informative responses to my questions. Amazing that so little was saved, 11000 out of 70000 items ! Good heavens, and now they are fighting about it. I think Pavlovsk is beautiful and crammed full of pieces belonging to other palaces. I wonder what it would look like if everything righfully belonging elsewhere was returned ? Probably quite empty.

I think Pavlovsk has so much because the museum curators at the time just helped themselves to everything in the warehouses that was saved before the war. They had first choice, at the right time !
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Nemos on February 05, 2010, 11:31:39 AM
Кадр кинохроники 1941 Гатчинский дворец приход немцев.

(http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/m_511924955-viu_nemos19_5.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/m_511924955-viu_nemos19_5.jpg.htm) (http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/a_717556189-bwy_nemos19_3.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/a_717556189-bwy_nemos19_3.jpg.htm) (http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/a_712578289-bfi_nemos19_9.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/a_712578289-bfi_nemos19_9.jpg.htm) (http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/m_999471237-jdv_nemos19_7.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/m_999471237-jdv_nemos19_7.jpg.htm) (http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/s_322201045-opt_nemos19_2.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/s_322201045-opt_nemos19_2.jpg.htm) (http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/g_297995506-rgh_nemos19_6.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/g_297995506-rgh_nemos19_6.jpg.htm) (http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/j_745946377-klz_nemos19_8.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/j_745946377-klz_nemos19_8.jpg.htm) (http://southwc.ru/1/8/thumbs/c_618027834-arx_nemos19_1.jpg) (http://southwc.ru/c_618027834-arx_nemos19_1.jpg.htm)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Wippich on February 16, 2010, 11:21:00 PM
Hello :)
this is a nice Forum and I'm very happy to have found it. I have several personal relations to Gatchina.
- Its a really philosophical story...

The eldest connection:
My Esthonian grand-grand--grandpa was owned by a "baron" ("Freiherr") in Pernau and made beer for him ("Brau-Meister") - and when he got his freedom in the 2nd half of the IXth century he married away - to a little colony of Esthonian farmers at the river Volkhov near Nowgorod. There he made beer and sold the rest ("Maische") to put it in the fields, and that gave more good corn to make more beer etc - U know? - and he became "rich" - rich enough, that my grand-grandpa, his son, with 9 children (7 daughters) to buy a so called M6isa ("Gut") nearer to Esthonian lands. They were 10 Esthonian families who bought, and the baron there lived still in his manour house between them. Must have been in the time of land-reform, 1904 or so. Now his daughters were seen as nearly manor-daughters (M6isa-T"utar, "Gutstochter"). The railway time was beginning, and the Tsar had jobs for clever boys, not good paid, but their uniforms had "golden buttons" with little eagles on it. My grandpa saw such a train in Southern Estonia and fell in love to this way of life. He learnt very busy - his parents had a poor farm there - and I don't know, why - once he visited our grandpa in this M6isa and asked for the unmarried sister of him - 22 years old was nearly "old" in those times for an unmarried lady. But while drinking a cup of tea and talking about, the eldest daughter served from the samovar and with littles cakes, always curious to have a look at the amazing "golden buttons", smiling about how nice they were... - and suddenly my grandpa decided to prefer this handsome maiden for his marriage - she was 15 years old, the eldest of 9 siblings and very happy to come out of the house with all the babes she had to care for each time when the next came... U know? - And no problem, he got her.

- To make a little festivity of such occasion, he took my grandma with him - surely by train - and they had the possibility to visit Gatchina Gardens, this Isle of Love with the pavillion of Venuse. :) Here they spoke about being a good partnership, made some nice fotos and married in 1915. In this time of the war he got a railway-station only for transporting goods in South-Eastern Esthonia and were busy with this job, they had a personnel of 12 men. Then the revolution broke out - our family of the M6isa of Moloskovitsa had to run away - because, now they were the "bad capitalista", and disapperaed while my grandma just got her 2nd baby and one of her sisters was sent to care for my mother, the elderly baby.

- In the same wartime, only 3 years earlier, my father had been a baby near "The battle of Tannenberg", his mother and other wifes hiding in the woods, when the Russian Army went in. Now, in 1917, the last Tsarist order came to the railway stations "Beware the Bolshevists - let not fall the trains and stations in their hands!" - so my Grandpa hid a whole armoured train with all the station's things and his 12 men of railway-personnel and his little family in a birchwood in the Esthonian swamps, I assume, it was deep frozen winter, beginning january of 1918. He knew the woods and the swamps vrery well. So they had to stand the end of war and the following war for freedom, with changing armies and partisans and Esthonian Metsavendad (in zhose times this were in the most civilian people hiding in the infinite woods. The revolting Bolshevists came over the land alike as in trance and had killed each bishop, mayor, governement at each level, professor, specialist, lokomotive-driver, teacher, policeman, farm-owner, shop-owner, etc they could catch, they burned houses, especially the M6isas, and devastated a lot with dynamite, factories, whole farm-buildings and so on, and rape was usual to all the female mankind which did not run in the woods, even in the regular army's use inn South of Eastern Prussia, as my grandma (fatherside) saw.
- We are sure that they at first made a similar raid on Gatshina and at least even parts of the medical clinics, only because it was the Tsar's own. Maybe, this was never the idea of a Mr.Lenin or Mr.Trotzki - but such thinggs happen - sadly enough.

After this WW I, my both families went to places which seamt bertter defended, my mother's father to Narwa railway station - but several years later he died, my father's mother to Koenigsberg, the greatest stronghold of Eastern Prussia. Her husband had died directly after the war, by exhaustion.

My Mother was then a freed Esthonian, in "those times" then living in Narva at the river Narva, the stronghold-border to Russia - my father got a new father, a merchant, and became a German doctor from Koenigsberg Eastern Prussia - (today Kaliningrad). He didn't like to serve zhe army, but when just finishing his studies they got him and the WW II began some month before - he even couldn't finish the "clinical year" they needed before getting their doctor's degree. - in the time when he made a lot of surgery in the "battle of Somme" / Belgia, there was a Red Cross Unit No.6 coming from Frankfurt /Main - simple nice housewives, U know, standing at the railway-stations and presenting hot soup or coffee to the exhausted soldiers coming from the Somme.

(continue follows)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Wippich on February 16, 2010, 11:25:03 PM
(Part 2 of 5) Hello again :)
Now, in the same days was my mother a fresh married wife of a policeman and they had their first child. It was born on the 2nd of September in 1939, and her doc had told her something of a war broken out between Polonia and Germany - and she thougt: its far away, we have our baby and should be happy - - - the year after, Sowjets took Esthonia and now her husband was one to "disappear". Soon after, several relatives had to become again Metsavendad, living in the woods and hiding under swamps, because of the 1st Stalinist's "clearing wave". In July of 1941 the deportation-wave climbed up the scale in Esthonia, that nearly every 3rd person was killed or brought to "Seberia". But - o wonder, once came an old wife, knocking at mygranfma's door - her own mother. She told that they had to live as "punishment", they didn't know for what, banned for the "famous 25 years", near Krasnodar, the sisters have married, the brothers and father was dead, and that she had to go back in 2 weeks again. And then she drove off and was never heard of again.

Then came the Germans - without a shot all the Russians disappeared, but had found and deportated my mother's husband two weeks earlier. Nobody got a letter, why or where, in such a wave. - Crazy enough - in 2004/2005 we got the news about him. They hadn't suspected him to be an Esthonian policeman, they tokk him by force in this "Worker's army" because he was able as drawer - drawing technical constructions. He had to rebouild factories and machines in Jekaterinburg Region, near the river Rezh. When finished the work they all had to die. The most of them died in a battle of Velikje Luki. He was shot in a massgrave of Swerdlowsk ssome time later.
But we knew about his death another story: a friend of him had managed to flee to the Germans and told of a "tribunal" and his execution. The fact is the same.

In contrast to this experiences the Germans in Narva had been friendly and nice, and all had ot very much to eat. Sometimes they gave a bit more for the widow with the little child. They hat entered the city without a 2nd shot - only that usual test-shot. (it hit one window of the city-governement). The Russian idea made have been the same as in Alexander I times: let them go in at let the Russian winter kill them - it worked with Napoleon, why not a 2nd time?

My father and the Red Cross sisters were sent from the Somme - where they didn't meet - to Esthonia, the city of Walk (Valgu, Valga) as soon as the Wehrmacht had crossed the river of Narva. My father should finish his doctor's way in the rear (Etappe) because he had done a good surgery. He should give instruction to the Red Cross troop Nr 6 of Frankfurt /Main, which should now becoome really medical nurses for the front. His own instructor was sitting in Narwa in the house of a friend of my mother. - So they - the young widow and he nice doctor "who brought the freedom with him" fell in love.

- Then he had finished his time and written his promtion (Dr.med.) and sent this to Berlin, where his doctor-father was professor, he got the order - and "his" No.6 troop of Red Cross helpers, to go to Gatchina and to lead the installation of a "Krankensammelstelle" for the Wehrmacht. He should not tell, but people in love tell sometimes such things. Well, my mother knew his place, and had heard the story of her mother and the Pavillion - she was a bit curious - and longed very much for him. By chance, the Narva theater sent a troop of singers and dancers to Gatschina "Truppenbetreuung", to enjoy the wounded ones and their helpers, or the fighters and their officers. Some days were not fightings, only partisans, it was wintertime. She chhanged the place, no problem, each Esthonian can sing and dance and had the colorful clothes of the nations parts. She had no idea, what a "Krankensammelstelle" is - only, that he does a doctor's job.

A "Krankensammelstelle" is near a front, in the rear. A wounded soldier is brought at first to the nearest "Haupt-Verbands-Platz" for the first help and the more little hurtings - then to a "Lazarett"-building or tent.for perhaps amputations, surgery needings or if he has fever for some other reason. If it needs more time and several operations, and the people are too ill for making the way home, or too healthy and could go again to fighting duties, they make place in the "Lazarett" and have their treatment, or are simply recreating in the "Kranken-Sammel-Stelle" - here was a collection of specialized doctors for eyes and ears, throats and teeth, intern, infetcions, and higher surgery. My father had to organize all this, what were the needs in building barraks (Kranken-Baracken) and which could be done in houses near the main street or in this wonderful castle.

I saw a building in this forum, of "House Kuzumova" - and about 45 years later I met some ladies of the Red Cross Unit No.6 (now called  the "V.E.601" - by chance their chief-nurse Maria Krrebs found me some month before her death - they had their station in this house, it is absolutely similar to their old fotos. It was called a " B.u.V.Stelle" and was a house for recreation between the duties - shouldn't be very far from the railway station, because their job included to bring soups and coffie to the passing trains. - They were called the "Frankfurter Herzchen (Nicehearts of Frankfurt)" from the Hessian soldiers there. It was a mix of kiosk (Russians call it "Amerikanski"), casino, but not the officiers mess, guestrooms to sleep 1 or to nights, a greater room to meet. The "Herzchen" slept in another house between the barraks in the garden.

They told, once in their first winter, they awakened in the morning, had their "little first braekfeast" in the house and opening the door to go out, they found only a wall of snow and wondered. They went to the upper window - the same white wall. Then they rang up the hospital-house stright over in a little distance, asking, what happened. Those laughed and told them, this is a typical snow of Gatschina, the wind makes a wall of snow as high as a house. Then they rang up the soldiers and they did not vlear the path but had a better idea and dug a tunnel from the sleeper's-quarter to the hospital-house, as the snow-hens. So they need not to come often and make the path again. In the morning, in December, it was dark until 11 AM and became dark again on 1 PM - only 2 hours day.

(continues)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Wippich on February 16, 2010, 11:28:16 PM
(part 3 of 5) Hello again :)
- But in the spring and summer it was so much light, that they put their seeds for salad out and in 2 weeks the salad (Kopfsalat) was ready to eat - and all the "Herzchen" used to have seeds for salad, vegetables and flowers with them, they told me, because the so called "Ration" for foods was never enough for the ill ones, the hungry soldiers and pilots and themselves. Each time in that war, when they arrived in a place to stay some month, they set their seeds in the earth, for to eat healthy things, and for flowers, too, for to have a tiny private joy. They didn't destroy any ancient building where they lived in, because ll the Hessians remembers the 2 Prinzesses of Darmstadt-Hessia who died in Russia 1917 as wife of a Tsar and his brother. I lived in a little city that belonged to Grosherzog Ernst of Darmstadt, and I saw in the family albums again and again zhe first sides with fotos of the unhappy Tsar family and of the last Grosherzog-Son Georg and his family who died by an accident all together in 1 week after Ernst died. - In a villa - manor house or castle - they had different stations - they repaired wrotten things they got, perhaps rotten by gunshotts or shells - well, it was in the midst of a war, polished the windows and furniture and cleaned this as eagerly as their hospital stations and felt daily some minutes alike Princesses themselves. They even tell this in their "Etappen-Reports" I was allowed to read through. The rule of Red Cross was, that each one had to write a report about their last station - and then after the war they found out, they were 40 women and had had 40 places to care for in that war, beginning in Antwerpen, then Somme, then Paris railway station, then near the Mediterrean coast so days recreation, then Lille, again the railway care, then Walk, then Gatschina /Lrasnogwardeisk railway care and Luga, then Riga, then a quick rescue of the wives after the "Kurland Kessel" was a bit opened again, then over the sea to Schleswig-Holstein, and then in different after-war-prisoner's-camps, now with Germans inside.

- U understand, these little housewifes loved theitr "station" in Gatschina, beause it was the castle of their beloved daughters of "Grosherzog Ernst Ludwig the last". When my mother wrote to her husband, my father, that she has his child coming, inside, he wrote back: if a son, give him the name of Georg. That should be an influence of his brave "Herzchen". In our total great family nobody was a Georg. I'm sure, he didn't think about king George of England. Maybe he remembered faintly the Saint "George, The Helper of the Ridders".

After the war the friend and instructor of my father, a Dr.Enders, based in Narva, found us alive, my father KIA (killed in action, he never saw me in his life on earth) and heard that I was severely ill from the beginning of my life in Sowjet-occupated Koenigsberg, he invited me to his home for half a year, in Vienna (Wien, then I was 5 years old) - and he was a catholic and indeed a ridder, when he died. We had the cance to meet him later again, when I was 16 years old. He had a pack of fotos from Gatschina and we were allowed to look them through, perhaps to get some pics of my fasther - when we were driven out of Eastern-Prussia we were not allowed to take with us a single paper or book or fotos of our beloved ones. We only "smuggled" an oil painting and a little sample of (torn) fotos of my family.

Now, the fotos in Vienna included a seria of Gatschina-postcards, I remember the 2 great stone-bulldogs at the entrance to the garden, and some of the happy wallpaintings of the time of Great Catherine, the Emperess, with the "story of the lover and the maiden" - he told, rooms and rooms, this story went on, and all the soldiers were much amused to have detected a forgotton old nice-painted "striptease-collection" - and each who could made fotos - but then came the SS-troops and stole the walls (maybe I didn't understand this correctly, I was young - they didn't destroy them but with archaeoligical know how they let them pick from the walls as an Egypt fresco, piece by peace and sent them to Germany to reconstruct them later for a museum's sake).

And one of the pics was this Pavillion of Venus, from outside - and one from inside. It was painted over and over with little angels of love - Amor, Cupido - U know - very nice, I assume in Rokkoko style. Not coloured fotos, but made for the use as postcards. We assume, the Bolshevists didn't look at and held some goats in the pavillon or used it to store things inside, as they used to do in those times. The German's army found them funny and the SS not enough "worthful" to steal it also. - Later, when urged to leave the place, a special troop was used, by Stalin and by Hitler, to destroy anything with dynamite, bridges, greater buildings to have bureaus in them, stores, wells, anything, what might be useful for the enemy - they only, both sides, were in hurry if thus time arrived to do, then the buildings stayed intact
- then the little Pavillion might have had the luck of "not important" - and only nobody cared for it, when windows broke.

The "Herzchen" had the fotos of the Pavillion and from the great castle those both bullogs - no foto from inside. I assume, inside was the SS in the better rooms, and the "Flighter aces", sometimes, and bureaus for the SD, and "better" special-doctors, flown in for hurt people which needed quick good help, especially the airbase chiefs and their better clientel.

As for my father, the doc of Gatschina-hurt soldiers, his "fee" (Sold) was 70 RM - to rent a seria-dwelling for a family with 3 rooms in that time U needed 60 RM in Koenigsberg. He needed foods from home to do his job. He had "good" relatives on farms to sent him such, and he had his proud parents. Their first doctor in the family :);) - and I became the 2nd.....

- This Gatschina-station was combined with another Luga-East, maybe in a wood - they toold of driving with a horse-driven vehicle to a lonely bureau half the way from Gatchina to Luga-East, I assume, this must have been a Wehrmacht-barack and needed "some papers", routine - perhaps a "Feldpolizei"-Station? to write passender-visa to work, if new Red Cross personel had arrived? - or a weekly report, who loved and who was dead? - some of the Red Cross people were in Luga, some in Gatschina, here in that nice villa of the B.u.V.Stelle, and some in the wide gardens of Pushkin castle with a whole city of Baracks of this "Krankensammelstelle" for to help the wounded ones.

(continues)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Wippich on February 16, 2010, 11:30:46 PM
(part 4 of 5) Hello again : sdrastwuj :)
They told, sometimes came a "Dicke Bertha" aeroplane, later more often, unto daily, this flew so deep (maybe to avoid radar?) that each knew, that theit skin was linnen, not aluminium or steel - they threw mortars, bombs, or sent shooting rounds when crossing the Krankensammelstelle, day or night, ignoring the red crosses on the roofs. When they just were doing an operation, the doctors and nurses took the sleepimg patient and went all together with him unter the "bed" (OP-Pritsche) made their hand-lamps on and continued the operation. In thee first time a "newbie" cried hysterically for fear, if such happened, then one of the others beat her in the face and told, to be silent. Some wekks and nobody cried or shocked about a "Dicke Bertha", because it became a normal thing that happens. Surely, the one or other of them died by these attacks and raids while healing others. But where to complain? Nearly all the world suffered similarly. But therefore they loved the flying service nearby, those pilots who hunted those "Dicke Berthas" as acrobats as they.

I saw in the lists of flight Aces, that the Russians were in 2'000 unto 4'000 m height but also in 200 unto 50, even 5 to 10 m heigth. The most problematic seem to have been the mortar-shells of "Stalin Orgel" - shooting serias of exploding materia. Once a man stood just at the dotors tent, he told me, that he had been a "Krad-Melder" (motorxycle-messenders) and a piece of a mortar shell hit and cut open his main blood adder to the head - this meant "dead in 1 minute". The next doctor, always some sterile packs with OP-needles with him in the mantle, tore it off with his teeth while grabbing with one fist to the man's neck, holding the air out of that otherwise deadly wound, and sewed it alltogether until the blood stood still. Since that time the man had no pulse in his right arm, but after that first recreation time no other problem - I met him 30 years later and asked because this mysterious pulse-disapperaring.

They "repaired" in Gatchina - thorougly or "quick and dirty" - a lot of soldiers and civil personnel, many pilots came in, later the wounded became more dirty, more hungry and younger and younger, unto 16-17 years old boys, some of them weeping and crying for their Mama until still and dead - coming from heavy fighting in the swamps near that front north-eeastern fom them. Leningrad was not far away, while starving, but they had not the time to thnk about another place - they began to work here in a wintertime - the railway brought them from at home, and nobody wihed to speak about the situation, if they met for a short time this "civilisation's refugium in white" at Red Cross home in Gatchina or rhe other placess.

But some of them told to me, that they even began to forget to long for a holiday ("Front-Urlaub" nachhause) p.e.to see Frankfurt or their former life's family and friends - there was sorrow of bombs - ruins - friends destroyed in all the world's war-places, political terror in eaxh situatuion, never allowed to "greet" with the hand-up (Esthoniansbegan to make a hand-up and to say "Ei "utle" (= I din't say)) and they at the front had not all these feeling of pressure because the daily life was in risk and the job knew no hours. They say in Hessian language "Dumm muss mer sei, stark muss mer sei und de Ouhr nech kene" (U should be silly, should be strong - and never look at the clock) and tried to make their lonely little joys. Once they had a seed of Rittersporn-flowers in Gatschina - its a flower in German Gardens, which grows about 60 cm high - in Gatchina it was quickly unto 160 cm, wonderful flowers.

- Even some of the SS was not the same here, they said "Ab Tauroggen wird der Landser hoeflich" (when passinfg the border of Latvia (Tauroggen) the soldiers become politely) - the same was said in Narwa. The systems of Stalin and Hitler had been as similar, that nobody could know much around his place of working. A lot of SS-lower-grade-soldiers had only the job to transport the wounded through the lines, a hard an deadly painful job. One elderly "Waffen-SS"-man told me, he came to those troop because his mother, a widow was poor, and he used to sew his shoes himself of his elderly rotten clothes, and then the SS-recruitment promised to him a pair of leathern shoes.
Another one, a former "Hitlerjunge, then a soldier, told, that his mother cleant the Synagoge, he functioned as the "Shabbes Goy" - he managed to sta their Shabbes Goy until the 9th of November and iit was burnt, the Jews ordered away - and his mother without job.

(continues)
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Wippich on February 16, 2010, 11:32:44 PM
(part 6 of 5) Hello again :)
- When my mother reached the place of Gatschina, ehe knew, where to go to find my father, it was a morning, they had gone through the night in a bus, all the dancing girls of Narva - but she surely couldn't tell to somebody, whom she was looking for - they would call her a "spy" and kill her, she knew by instinct, looking at the total village of barracks - Stalin was a "teacher" of such things - she stood in a middle way (Gasse) and was really astonished. She dared not to ask anything. Then - by the wonder of love-instinct - my father came just out of the next door wishing just now to smoke a cigarette - having made operations all the night - and was astonished, too, to see her. In those times she was a beautiful lady, a mix between Greta Garbo legs and Zarah-Leander-face, but with full dark hair. - Even Mrs.Maria Krebs, the chief of the Red Cross troop Nr.6, she laughed and said: we did see her through the windows and some of my girls sighed and said "No chance left to get this doctor!"

He said to my mother, she shouldn't dance for other men and wrote an attest, that she cannot dance. And then - "our tradition became truth" - he went with her in the Pavillion of Venus for a private lunch or supper he let bring there. The "Herzchen" had even a foto of him looking "totally in love". n these three days they "founded" me, I'll say - even my birth was a lot of wartime later.

Because many things were not allowed to make fotios of, the "Herzchen"

I assume, each thing has 3 sides - a right, a wrong and - my.

Greetinx,
I hope it is useful for Ur forum and for some questions :)

Dr.Wippich II
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Margot on February 17, 2010, 12:52:57 AM
Dear Dr Wippich

May I be the first of many to thank you very very much for taking the time to share the extraordinarily moving story of your parents and their and your connection to Gatchina! I was utterly spellbound by this! It is stories such as the one you have just shared here that bring an incredible immediacy to us all of the events that took passed between 1917 and 1945!

I am almost at a loss as to what to say! I think I had better read your posts again!

Thank you again for sharing this wonderful, sad yet profoundly heartwarming piece of your history with us here! I found some of the little personal details you have related such as the behaviour of the SS officers once they crossed the frontier most interesting! It is these sort of personal anecdotes which really put a human face to the epic struggle that was World War Two!


Thank you!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Wippich on February 17, 2010, 09:21:19 AM
Hello Margot :)
thanx for Ur nice word
 
Only here I think U missed the point: What for the changing "behaviour .... once they crossed the frontier"
- I say it more precisely - the Red Cross wifes wondered about their bad behaviour at home in Germany unto Latvia, "barking" around, with word, lances and starring weapons - or soft and the more dangerous making each the spy and treator of his neighbour - zack-zack! - like a powerful godless elegant devil's community likes to behave for to spread horror - maybe similar to the Tscheka-people - and sometimes their wifes at home (in p.e.Frankfurt) the worse! - in the moment the mass of German soldiers had passed Tauroggen, eastwards - they felt more free and more themselves than at home in thore system - similar to the front-helper-women they began to enjoy politeness and friendlyness, as much, that the women-"comrades" joked about and said "Must be - they are shickered by champaign in the air". It was a phenomen! -

I'll tell U a last little story in connection to Gatchina (or Riga Kurland-Kessel, I cannot imagine to have happened there) - in one thread here in the forum is told, that the population of Gatchina had been evacuated from Krasnogwardeisk and Gatchina and so on - I assume, at first by the Sowjet order, "to give the enemy no chance to find any useful help or helper"

- then the wintertime arrived, and women, children, ill or old ones couldn't stand the frost and snow like snow-hens, and then a lot of them came back to the places the Germans now living in, to beg for food or little jobs, and the "Tauroggen-effect" was, that the German "Feldkueche" (soldier's own kitchen) gave them some soups, it is witnessed, not very much, but warm and a little chance to live

- we had a similar thankful memory,
1 Ukrainian Feldkueche in Koenigsberg, in the summer of 1945, feeding my mother daily when they saw she is getting a child in her womb (me). She could come daily to get 1 milkpot full of Kasha or "Borshtsh"-soup, and shared this with 19 other wives and her little son, the had a "magical cook" between, who managed to mis this little pot full of so called Kasha with collected edible herbs, leaves, grass, some detected supplies under burnt-out or bombed housess... - maybe this lady was a learnt Vegetarian-Society-member in better times. This soup was the soldier' own ration. Whether the NS nor the SU had allowed to do so, we "prisoners" or so called "freed" population in the enemies land had no "ration cards", never before 1947 a piece of bread. If any, then a "little" card for only a handful of bread, which needes administration - 4 stamps in 4 ttally distant places, sometimes one had to come 4 times again or more, and then one might have the luck to get this at the bread fabric, if not some hungry robbers killed the people coming from the last-stamp's station and took the card, plus killing and eating this unhappy person, too. It truely happens.
- The maximum I heard from, a man doing the very hard job to bury the daily found deads of the city - they won a "right" for 400 gramm bread a day, and that he once needed the total of November to get his promised bread (9 of 10 people in our city died in 2 years, the same in the city of Elbing - they told us, it is the revenge for Leningrad and we ddn't know what they meant - only later I got the knowledge about this huge war-criminality to give a city not a single chance for capitulation while blocking their nutritions - nobody spoke of this in radios or newsletters in NS-Germany, because the bad men knew the difference between war and criminality very well.... )

- Well, I wish to remember this, too - but it is a fact that my fathers hospital - Krankensammelstelle - gave a free treatment for ill people of the inborn population, and they did this friendly. - Some years later, I was born, lying in my "cradle" and we had found a place to live again (our house was burnt after the conquering of our city while raping badly my grandmother, until this nice Ukrainian cokk felt pity with her and cried "This is my wife!" and she learnt to add "yes! (=he is my husband)") - maybe an old "right of wars allowed raping for one or 2 weeks, but this went on, all 1945, and 1946, and 1947 until we left, driven away.

- My mother was one of the 3 last living women of the city who had stayed "unhurt" as far as we know. Se moved extremely cautious, she told. U must imagine, in those times such a fact results in a form of unhappy jealousy between the wifes and maidens, being such forgotten and delivered. We lived in a lonely house built for about 12 families with 200 wifes and childs in it, now. When the next drunken sowjet-soldiers knocked in the doors some of the others cried of desperation and fury, "Go to that room, the seweress, she hasn't yet....!" - and the 2 (they had a routine, they used to be 2, one with the Kalashnikow, U know, and then the oher helding the weapon at each other in the near). - Oh, I know the date - after 10th of september, 1946, because in that time we had put an oil-painting of my father in his Wehrmacht-doctors-uniform at the wall, dated 10.Sept.1946, and I was lying lame with poliomyelitis in my "cradle" near to my sewing mother, under this picture. It was a very similar painting, so great as alive, his face and shoulders, made from a postcard-foto of him, only looking stern and friendly.

- The soldiers went in and my mother felt very bad - no possibility to flee, nobody in to fetch help or to cry - in this moment, the one of the both asked, more to himself: "Who is this man? I know him!" - my mother understood this, because she spoke Russian language from Narva. She quicly told: "My husband, this child's father, a doctor." - and the soldier enjoyed and told his compagnon: "This German was a nice one, he healed my wounds and gave me a cigarette! - Lets go and do no harm to his wife." - and then said a friendly "dajdajdaj" to me, the babe, and went out - and my mother was rescued again.

So the one good deed helps to let a bad dead - sometimes.

my greetinx,
Dr Wippich
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: richard_1990 on May 22, 2010, 05:00:53 AM
Does anyone have any pre-revolutionary pictures of Gatchina?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on May 26, 2010, 11:17:26 AM
There are many photos hier: http://history-gatchina.ru/

For example:
http://history-gatchina.ru/owners/alex3/palace.htm
http://history-gatchina.ru/owners/alex3/life.htm
http://history-gatchina.ru/museum/interior/eview.htm
http://history-gatchina.ru/parks/park/eindex.htm
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: lilianna on March 08, 2011, 12:32:18 PM
 The palace and the city. We are proud of our heroes!
http://www.gtn-city.ru/gatchina1/stati-o-gatchine/26-janvarja-1944-goda-osvobozhdenie-gatchiny-ot-nemecko-fashistskih-zahvatchikov.html
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Laura Mabee on March 08, 2011, 01:34:47 PM
Thanks for posting that Lilianna! It is a very interesting video.
It breaks my heart to see such destruction to the city and its people. I can't even imagine how difficult those times were.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: lilianna on March 08, 2011, 02:12:49 PM
I read in his memoirs that in Pavlovsk and Pushkin soldiers did not meet anybody. In the cities there was no residents. Only the occupiers, who destroy everything. But we all recovered. How beautiful Pavlovsk, Peterhof, Strelnya, Pushkin!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: lilianna on April 03, 2011, 11:25:16 PM
Railway station
(http://s45.radikal.ru/i110/1104/e4/77c15d3717ddt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s45.radikal.ru/i110/1104/e4/77c15d3717dd.jpg.html)

Soldiers-Heroes!
(http://s14.radikal.ru/i187/1104/c1/7d3b584f2761t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s14.radikal.ru/i187/1104/c1/7d3b584f2761.jpg.html)
(http://s008.radikal.ru/i304/1104/15/96c0cd2a2dc6t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s008.radikal.ru/i304/1104/15/96c0cd2a2dc6.jpg.html)

(http://s48.radikal.ru/i121/1104/d2/f7852514462bt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s48.radikal.ru/i121/1104/d2/f7852514462b.jpg.html)(http://s009.radikal.ru/i310/1104/85/b8900be93954t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s009.radikal.ru/i310/1104/85/b8900be93954.jpg.html)
The city and the palace from the plane.
(http://s008.radikal.ru/i303/1104/bf/ff316f67dd7bt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s008.radikal.ru/i303/1104/bf/ff316f67dd7b.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 01, 2012, 06:45:42 PM
Fascinating photos on the Arsenal rooms than and now, i.e. #10 office of Alexander III on 3rd floor, #13 Bedroom of NI & Alexandra on 1st Fl, #13 Dark Corridor:
http://www.diletant.ru/articles/38797/?clear_cache=Y

Part I - Central Bldg:
http://www.diletant.ru/articles/37687/

Joanna
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Laura Mabee on August 02, 2012, 03:42:08 PM
Brilliant links! Thanks Joanna!
I'm always a fan of the "before and after" shots. It's a shame the after shots are so much worse than before.
The interior pictures this really put into perspective the what's what of Gatchina. Thanks Joanna!
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: rosieposie on August 26, 2012, 02:33:31 AM
Just wondering if there is any updated photos of Gatchina?  I might be on the wrong sub forum?
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Svetabel on August 28, 2012, 06:50:09 AM
Just wondering if there is any updated photos of Gatchina?  I might be on the wrong sub forum?

I merged your question with the right subforum. You can find some new photos of Gatchina Palace here.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: IvanVII on November 24, 2012, 11:29:54 PM
Noticed some new updates to the Gatchina Palace web site that includes interactive maps with some floor plans.

http://gatchinapalace.ru/en/gatchina/interactive_map/kitchen.php?floor=2

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on October 22, 2014, 07:46:45 AM
News from Paul Gilbert's blog , Royal Russia :

Gatchina Palace to Open Four New Halls in 2016 (includes Chesme gallery and Greek gallery) : http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/blog/index.blog/1457283/gatchina-palace-to-open-four-new-halls-in-2016/

Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on November 09, 2015, 09:42:34 PM
.

Here is the Arsenal Room on the ground floor. It's named "Hall " in the floorplan that Brian had posted.


wow....that was a looooong time ago, wasn't it?  :-)

.
Title: Re: Gatchina Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 09, 2017, 10:20:59 AM
Parades and Picnics at Gatchina Palace 1898

Nicholas II, Alexandra and others prepare the picnic food.  Simply Delicious!

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/08/parades-and-picnics-at-gatchina-palace.html

Joanna