Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Tsarskoe Selo Palaces => Topic started by: Greg D on June 22, 2004, 01:51:17 AM

Title: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Greg D on June 22, 2004, 01:51:17 AM
Pavlovsk is a lovely place .... much more "elegant" and tasteful than some of the more stately and "imperial" palaces.  When visiting last year, unfortunately I only got to see the park, not the palace interiors, but it was well worth it.

The best book on pavlovsk is probably "Pavlovsk: the life of a Russian Palace", by Suzanne Massie. It also has a good description of The Alexander palace, and general post war restoration. I enjoyed it immensely.



Greg
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Nick_Nicholson on June 22, 2004, 07:01:05 AM
Elisa,

Suzanne's book is the best for this history of the Palace (and is available in paperback), but the best visual guide to the palace is "Pavlovsk; Palace and Park" published by Editions Alain de Gourcuff in Paris in 1993.  The Editor was Emmanuel Ducamp.

If you can find it, it runs about 200 dollars for two volumes, one of pictures of the palace and objects in the collections, and one of pictures of the park and its follies.

Best,

Nick
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Greg D on June 22, 2004, 09:36:42 AM
I would like to second Nick,s recommendation ... the Pavlovsk edition is visually amazing, showing all the rooms in the palace and very beautifully presented.
The cost is somewhat high though ... I found my copy when my local art bookshop had a sale .. it was a third of the price !!
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Nick_Nicholson on June 22, 2004, 02:05:19 PM
Emmanuel Ducamp edited several books which are published by Editions Alain Gourcuff, including Views of Moscow, and the Kremlin Palace interiors.  The Pavlovsk book is by far the most interesting.

best,

nick
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on June 25, 2004, 10:11:17 PM
Hi Nick !

Were the two volumes on Pavlovsk part of Alain de Gourcuff's "Imperial Palaces in the Vicinity of St. Petersburg"? I had thought that this was a set of volumes on Tsarskoye Selo, Pavlovsk, and Peterhof. Especially with a price of US $265.00 !!!!

Many thanks
Joanna
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Greg D on June 28, 2004, 03:54:21 AM
Hi Joanna,

The Pavlovsk edition is a seperate Boxed set of two volumes comprising photographs of the palace, park and collections...

The "Imperial Palaces in the vicinity of St Petersburg" boxed set is primarily 19th Century watercolours of the palaces and interiors of Gatchina, Tsarskoe Selo, Peterhof and Pavlovsk. This edition is great to see the rooms of the palaces when the Imperial family of the time was actually living in them, with some of the paintings being of photographic accuracy.

They are both expensive, but for us addicts, a worthwhile puchase no doubt !

Best
Greg
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on June 28, 2004, 08:04:33 AM
Many thanks Greg_D ! I would adore all of the them but especially of Tsarskoye Selo but at that price sigh!

There is another book of Emmanuel Ducamp by Madame Korshunova on The Winter Palace that is at US $195! I think it was Daniel who posted of the Hermitage's Virtual Academy that has E. Hau's and other artiests c1860's watercolors of some of the rooms.

Joanna
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Greg D on August 19, 2004, 01:45:38 AM
Up until World War II, I believe the trains to Pavlovsk arrived at the Vokzaal station and concert hall, situated in the Park itself.
This was destroyed completely by the Germans, and at present there is only a clearing in the trees left ... does anyone have any photos of the station/concert hall, or know if the building is on the list for restoration ??
Hopefully it will be one day, as many famous composers - Glinka, Johann Strauss, and I think Tchaichovsky, played here and even composed music specifically for perfomances here.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: leanora on August 19, 2004, 02:29:13 AM
Could someone explain me something?

I have read in a book that Pavlovsk was occupied a very long time by the Grand Princess Alexandra Iosifovna, only surviving of the old court of Nicholas I, and that she lived in the palace until her death in  1911...

But in an another book, I have read that the palace was a museum during the time of Nicholas II

What is the true?  ???
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Greg D on August 19, 2004, 04:21:16 AM
As far as I recall, the Palace was owned by Grand Duke Konstantine Konstantinovich the family artist and poet until his death in 1915, then inherited by his son Ioann until 1917... I think various other members of the family also had apartments there as well e.g Queen Olga of Greece (born a Konstantinovichi)...
As far as the museum idea goes, after the death of Maria Feodorovna (wife of Paul I), the subsequent owners left the main body  and contents of the palace intact, therby perhaps unintentionally creating a "museum" of the late 18th century.

Hope this is of use leonora :)
Greg
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: leanora on August 19, 2004, 04:29:03 AM
thank you Greg for your reply
;)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: BobG on August 19, 2004, 06:45:31 AM
There was also a wooden Konstantine Palace that had been moved from Tsarskoe Selo  to the Pavlovsk Park and many of the family preferred to live in this smaller more intimate palace.  It is pictured in the watercolors in Ducamp's book.  Unfortunately, I have no way to scan the drawing in.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on August 19, 2004, 09:32:04 AM
Here is the Konstantin palace´s lake facade.

(http://img22.exs.cx/img22/8417/konstantinpalace.jpg)

This wooden palace already was, it seems, in poor condition right before the revolution. After the revolution it was used as a students´hostel. They made a kitchen of a corner ground floor room, and used glassware and chine services with the imperial coat-of-arms and a design of a ribbon written with the motto "Follow a straight path". Needless to say, there was little left of that service in a few months.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Mike on August 19, 2004, 11:26:26 AM
The famous railway station / concert hall (http://railroads.narod.ru/history/016_2.jpg) in Pavlovsk (Vokzal) was indeed destroyed during WWII, but its use as a rail station had stopped before the war. When the Tsarskoye Selo - Dno line was built in 1904-1911 as a part of the Moscow-Windau-Rybinsk railway, the new Pavlovsk-2 station was opened, and commuter traffic from SPb was rerouted via that station.

There are plans currently to restore the Vokzal - named BTW after London's Vauxhall.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on August 19, 2004, 11:48:05 AM
Hello Mike,

I love anything related to the station and its history. Your news is great, so then there is a project for its restoration? Last time i was there only the remains of the beautiful fountain and stone grounds(?) of the nearby music pavillion were left standing. That station is so full of history, or russian musical history....

Is there any project for restoring the wooden theater?
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Mike on August 19, 2004, 01:42:37 PM
Quote
Is there any project for restoring the wooden theater?

At this stage - just talks and discussions in the media. Have you seen the Russian film Farewell St.Petersburg, a romantic story about Johann Strauss' performances at Pavlovsk, where the Vokzal was shown in great detail?
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: jda on August 19, 2004, 03:57:40 PM
Are there any plans to restore the wooden Konstantine Palace?
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: BobG on August 19, 2004, 05:18:45 PM
Antonio,
You come up with the greatest pictures!  Thanks so much for posting the wooden palace.
Bob
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on August 19, 2004, 06:06:41 PM
Quote
At this stage - just talks and discussions in the media. Have you seen the Russian film Farewell St.Petersburg, a romantic story about Johann Strauss' performances at Pavlovsk, where the Vokzal was shown in great detail?


Hello Mike,

I ´have never seen such film, but it sounds just great :). You say the Vokzal is shown in great detail, do you mean that the film is from before the WWII?? Well, if it´s so, then it´s a treasure, something like a time machine...

Pavlovsk is so hauntingly beautiful. Not only the palace but also each tree, bridge (should i say "mostiki" Mike?), the river...

There were so many lovely pavillions that have been lost. The new and old chalets, Maria´s farm, the Elizabeth pavillion, etc... I hope with time (and money) the restorers will bring them back to life.

And Bobg, i´m just too happy you enjoyed the photo :)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Mike on August 20, 2004, 12:48:19 AM
Antonio, the film was made in the 70s, but they had built an exact stage set.
"Mostiki" means "small bridges", sungular: "mostik".
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Greg D on August 20, 2004, 01:37:23 AM
Thanks Mike and Antonio for the information regarding the Vokzal station  :)
I must admit I thought the train station currently there did seem too nice and elegant to be from soviet times  ;)
The train journey I took back to St Petersburg from Pavlovsk was an experience !! very basic seating, packed to the rafters, but cheap, clean and bang-on-time ... not something you can say about trains here in England !!
The musical tradition appears to be continuing at Pavlovsk, as one of the "magical moments" of my holiday, was walking through the woods, and as we approached the Round Hall, a Chopin piano recital was taking place ... to hear the music in those tranquil surroundings was great ;D
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Mike on August 20, 2004, 10:21:19 AM
The new station (http://al-spbphoto.narod.ru/prig/Pavlovsk_vokzal_1.jpg) in Pavlovsk was built around 1952. I've noted elsewhere ("Soviet life") that railways were one of the positive aspects of everyday life in the USSR. Trains were cheap, reasonably comfortable and almost always right on schedule. Rail stations were designed and built under tight central control and on ample budgets, so that in many towns the station was the most attractive and well-kept building. They were also among the first buildings to be restored or built anew after WWII.

Here is another photo  (http://www.mitropolia-spb.ru/vedomosty/n28/19_5.jpg)of the Vokzal concert hall built by A. Shtakenshneider.

Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on September 19, 2004, 06:03:36 AM
Quote
There is another book of Emmanuel Ducamp by Madame Korshunova on The Winter Palace that is at US $195! I think it was Daniel who posted of the Hermitage's Virtual Academy that has E. Hau's and other artiests c1860's watercolors of some of the rooms.

i have this book.   it's large and very thick & heavy.   and boxed.

and absolutely wonderful!

300 pages;  hundreds of Hau's watercolors (some of them are so skillfully done, you'd SWEAR they were photographs!);  also contains
watercolors by Premazzi & Ukhtomsky;  but what i love most, is how extensive & thorough it is.   there is a view for most of the main rooms (& in some cases, several views, in order to show it's transformation over time);   the images cover the state apartments, the private apartments of the imperial family & the various rooms in the 4 reserve apartments (each reserve apartment consists of several rooms).




of course, in the book, each watercolor occupies an entire page, with the description, & where the room represented is situated, occupying the page opposite.

as i said,
it's absolutely wonderful.    i would have done just about anything in order to buy it.    i spent about 4 hours a day for 3 days thumbing through it, much to the dismay & irritation of the staff in the upscale bookstore.    it was "suggested" to me that i either buy it or forget about it --- but, in either case, that i not come back.     i left.

then, i actually dreamt about the book.  
i took it as a sign, albeit, a very CONVENIENT sign! <wink>.    though i could ill afford to, i used part of the rent money to buy it.    

it was worth it.

it was SO worth it.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on September 19, 2004, 07:39:50 PM
From the St. Petersburg Times of January 24, 2003, there is an article 'Rebuilding Pavlovsk on the Quiet' of the incredible work of Sergey Gutzait. On the question of property rights he says "...But, even if the worst should happen, the buildings will stay, which is the most important thing. So we will continue renovating, rebuilding and recreating the park.."


Joanna
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: gleb on February 22, 2007, 12:14:00 PM
Here is the Konstantin palace´s lake facade.

This wooden palace already was, it seems, in poor condition right before the revolution. After the revolution it was used as a students´hostel. They made a kitchen of a corner ground floor room, and used glassware and chine services with the imperial coat-of-arms and a design of a ribbon written with the motto "Follow a straight path". Needless to say, there was little left of that service in a few months.


Do you think this palace is the one in the pic I am posting?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/pav-vil-.jpg)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: gleb on February 22, 2007, 12:18:27 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/pvkp-a-e-10.jpg)


Does anyone know where it was located, I mean near or far from the main palace? Near one the most important pavillions?
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: gleb on February 22, 2007, 12:24:43 PM
When did the Konstantinovichi decided not to live anymore in this palace?
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Svetabel on February 23, 2007, 06:15:34 AM
When did the Konstantinovichi decided not to live anymore in this palace?

If I am correct the last owner (host) lived in the old Konstantinovskiy palace was GD Mikhail Pavlovich. He and his family prefered the palace as a summer residence.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: BobG on February 23, 2007, 08:42:27 AM
I thought that Konstantine Konstantinovich (KR) and his family lived in the old Konstantinovskiy palace preferring it to living in Pavlovsk.  I also thought his wife and family and sister-in-law Queen Olga moved to Pavlovsk only after the revolution to attempt to safeguard it and its furnishings.  It may be that guests like Olga who spent a lot of time at Pavlovsk always had rooms in the main palace while KR and his family preferred to live in the old palace. 
Can anyone confirm?
BobG
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Svetabel on February 23, 2007, 09:05:16 AM
I thought that Konstantine Konstantinovich (KR) and his family lived in the old Konstantinovskiy palace preferring it to living in Pavlovsk.  I also thought his wife and family and sister-in-law Queen Olga moved to Pavlovsk only after the revolution to attempt to safeguard it and its furnishings.  It may be that guests like Olga who spent a lot of time at Pavlovsk always had rooms in the main palace while KR and his family preferred to live in the old palace. 
Can anyone confirm?
BobG

As I know all the family of KR preferred to live in the Pavlovsk palace not in the old Konstantinovskiy palace. And I've just found out that GD KN, father of KR, lived in the old palace with his family.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: gleb on February 23, 2007, 12:55:57 PM
So, just to recap:

K. Nikolaevitch lived in the old little woodden palace, while his son K. Konstantinovitch and his family lived in great palace of Pavel I.

What about A. Iosifovna? In the little palace till her death?

Do you have any idea where K. Konstantinovitch and family lived exactly? I think on the ground floor, but it is just an idea.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Svetabel on February 23, 2007, 03:20:53 PM

What about A. Iosifovna? In the little palace till her death?

Do you have any idea where K. Konstantinovitch and family lived exactly? I think on the ground floor, but it is just an idea.

You are right - the family of KR lived on the ground floor. GDss Alexandra Iosifovna had her own apartments in the palace.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: hikaru on March 30, 2007, 12:02:07 AM
I think that the family also lived in the third floor.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: gleb on March 30, 2007, 08:08:11 AM
I think that the family also lived in the third floor.

Maybe the children, I don't know about their parents.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on April 01, 2007, 05:44:46 AM
Gleb,

Your pics are so marvelous!
I'm a bit desperate to see that all those interestings books are so cheap,unfortunatly I think I'll wait so more to buy it...

What about the wooden palACE that jda also talked abour,when did it disappeared?Does some plan of reconstruction have been made?

Vassili
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: hikaru on April 12, 2007, 12:02:47 AM
 I visited Pawlovsk last Sunday. In the round Italian Hall (Dining Room), I have found  very beatiful blue covers with yellow/black embroidery on the small pouff (small chair without back).
There was the written explanation that those covers was made with the support of the Queen of Iordania and Suzanne Massie.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: G.Michael on May 22, 2007, 08:00:11 AM
Reading through all three pages of this thread, I see that people were living in the palace as late as 1915. And yet, someone also says that the main block of the palace was mostly left as it was in the early 1800s.

Did the more recent residents live in the wings? Surely the palace was renovated or "modernized" to make it appropriate for a 20th century lifestyle. For example, bathrooms must have been added. Does anyone know where the bathrooms were or are located? Or what other changes were necessary to keep the palace livable through the years.

Also, while looking at the AlexanderPalace.org's pages on Pavlovsk, I noticed that the "floor plan" link is broken. I would be very grateful if someone could post the plans. I have been able to find only very low resolution plans or highly inaccurate ones.

Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on June 08, 2007, 06:52:04 PM
Pavilion of roses deisgned by Voronikhin and restored in  2003,I've just fallen on this pic .
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/pavillondesrosespavlovskparvoronikh.jpg)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: dmitri on August 11, 2007, 09:56:43 AM
Yes it is extraordinarily beautiful. If you get a chance to see the couple of episodes on St.Petersburg in the television series entitled, Classical Destinations you will see inside the concert hall and hear some wonderful russian performers.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on August 27, 2007, 05:50:52 AM
It is to be planned for my trip,probably next year!

V;
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: G.Michael on April 22, 2008, 09:00:27 PM
For those who might be interested . . .

Here's a link to a page that includes a floor plan of the state rooms as originally designed by Cameron. You'll notice that the Tapestry Study and Maria's library don't yet have their curved walls, the Greek Hall is lacking columns and Maria's dressing room is oval shaped just like Paul's, not yet altered to allow better access to the Gallery, which hadn't been built yet. This page also includes the first drawing that I've ever seen showing the way the original one-story wings looked.

http://rusarh.ru/vpavlovske.htm

I would be grateful if anyone could post or link to floor plans of the completed palace, after Brenna's additions. The ground floor would also be thrilling to see.





Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: G.Michael on June 08, 2008, 09:57:19 PM
I recently found this link, which includes a plan of the palace as it stands today. As far as I can tell, the only major difference would be the addition of the restaurant beneath the old "Throne Room."

Most exciting, this is the first time I've seen a plan of the top floor.

http://www.pavlovskmuseum.ru/for_visitors/palace_plane/

Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Luc on July 01, 2008, 09:58:08 AM
There are a lot of pictures of Pavlovsk on this link:
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/pavlovsk/history.html

Enjoy  :)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Nemos on July 01, 2008, 01:22:25 PM
(http://i25.tinypic.com/5l829s.jpg)

Испанец сверяет место обелиска времён 2-й Мировой войны.
The Spaniard verifies a place of an obelisk of times of 2-nd World war.


(http://i26.tinypic.com/2d2ewhx.jpg)

Обломки обелиска.
Fragments of an obelisk.
Title: Pavlovsk Question
Post by: ArchitectCS on May 20, 2009, 11:35:56 AM

Can someone please confirm/deny something for me?  I had heard that the fire screen in the study of Paul I at Pavlovsk was involved in his assassination at the Mikhailovsky Castle.  What I remember is that he was hiding from his attackers behind the screen, it got knocked over and Paul was murdered (I thought he was stabbed to death, but I'm finding varying accounts on line).  Is this the very fire screen?  I know that the picture on it is cracked-is this a relic of the assassination attempt?  Also, I heard that Maria Feodorovna painted the picture on it-is this true?  I've attached a link to a page with a picture:

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/Pavlovsk/paullibrary.html (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/Pavlovsk/paullibrary.html)

I am teaching a class of 7th graders about Renaissance art on Friday, but I wanted to stress the importance of art as history itself and I thought the fire screen was a great example, providing I have all my facts straight.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Pavlovsk Question
Post by: Vladimir_V. on May 21, 2009, 10:06:58 AM
he was hiding from his attackers behind the screen.

No, he was not. This story was fabricated by his murderers.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: ArchitectCS on May 21, 2009, 11:50:02 AM
Good to know!  It was such a fabulous story, it seemed too good to be true.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on June 21, 2009, 09:20:13 PM
The famous railway station / concert hall (http://railroads.narod.ru/history/016_2.jpg) in Pavlovsk (Vokzal) was indeed destroyed during WWII, ...

A view of the Pavlovsk Vokzal in 1863:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2500243761

Joanna
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: ArchitectCS on October 24, 2010, 07:04:00 PM
I posted a link in the imperial country residence news link about the auction of the chandelier from Pavlovsk.  Any idea if Pavlovsk is going to try and get it back?  That would be amazing!
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Svetabel on January 10, 2011, 02:36:14 AM
White Dining Room in the Pavlovsk Palace. It became the Study of GD Konstantin K., and how it looked like in his life-time:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Pavlovsk/whitedinpavlkk.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Pavlovsk/whitedinpavlkk.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Pavlovsk/whitedinpavlkk1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Pavlovsk/whitedinpavlkk1.jpg)

You can see a gala portrait in a court dress of GDss Elizaveta, spouse of GD KK, on the wall, at left.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: G.Michael on August 12, 2011, 10:40:01 PM

The link below includes a postcard, supposedly showing GD Constantine's "cabinet" at Pavlovsk. But the room doesn't seem to match anything on the floor plans.

Any idea where this room was located? Or perhaps the room is misidentified?

http://www.knigaplus.ru/sale/lot/20492/
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: xirbis on August 15, 2011, 12:25:57 PM
Note though that the card  identifies the room as Study ("Cabinet") of GD Constantine Nickolaevich, not Constantine Constantinovich...KN but not KK. Most likely (or how it looks to me) this is GD KN' (KK's father) "cabinet" in Strelna Palace (Konstantinovski Palace) XXX
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: xirbis on August 15, 2011, 07:13:17 PM
CORRECTION !!
my bad - sorry for the confusion - yes the card shows Pavlovsk, not Strelna. There is no mistake or typo. The Cabinet/Study of GD K.N. was also called the Grand Dining Room. It WAS (!) located on the Ground Floor of the main building of the Palace. Originally (late 18th century - to somewhere circa mid 19th century) there were TWO rooms there, designed by Cameron and then "touched up" by Voronikhin - DRAWING ROOM and DANCE HALL (ROOM)....then somewhere in the XIX c these two rooms were combined in ONE - GRAND DINING ROOM which was PROBABLY AKA GD K.N.'s Cabinet/Study. I believe that is what we see on the postcard.
Now the most interesting part. After the 2d WW, during the Palace Restoration it was decided to re-create the original Cameron's design...hence there are  TWO ROOMS again - Dance Room and Old Drawing Room. They can be easily located on the present-day Floor Plan/ Just have a look. Remove (in your imagination) the dividing wall between these two room and - SURPRISE ! - you will see how the "postcard" room could easily fit into the enlarged space.
Hope that was of some help ...
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Russian Art Lover on September 07, 2011, 09:12:05 AM
I wonder if any Pavlovsk Palace experts can help me. I read in an Italian source that Pietro di Gottardo Gonzaga built a chamber theatre for Maria Fyodorovna.

Original: Nel 1814 il Gonzaga costruì il teatro da camera per Marija Fëdorovna.

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/pietro-gonzaga_%28Dizionario-Biografico%29/

Unfortunately, that is all the information that it gives. I presume that this would be at Pavlovsk Palace - can anyone confirm it?? I don't have my own Pavlovsk books at hand at the moment...



Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: G.Michael on September 10, 2011, 10:35:04 AM
CORRECTION !!
my bad - sorry for the confusion - yes the card shows Pavlovsk, not Strelna. There is no mistake or typo. The Cabinet/Study of GD K.N. was also called the Grand Dining Room. It WAS (!) located on the Ground Floor of the main building of the Palace. Originally (late 18th century - to somewhere circa mid 19th century) there were TWO rooms there, designed by Cameron and then "touched up" by Voronikhin - DRAWING ROOM and DANCE HALL (ROOM)....then somewhere in the XIX c these two rooms were combined in ONE - GRAND DINING ROOM which was PROBABLY AKA GD K.N.'s Cabinet/Study. I believe that is what we see on the postcard.
Now the most interesting part. After the 2d WW, during the Palace Restoration it was decided to re-create the original Cameron's design...hence there are  TWO ROOMS again - Dance Room and Old Drawing Room. They can be easily located on the present-day Floor Plan/ Just have a look. Remove (in your imagination) the dividing wall between these two room and - SURPRISE ! - you will see how the "postcard" room could easily fit into the enlarged space.
Hope that was of some help ...

Excellent! You are right, of course. I had read that the two rooms were once combined, and it's nice to see how it looked. But I have to say the restorers were right to put it back to the way it is now.

On another topic, has anyone ever seen the circular room in the center of the ground floor, beneath the Italian Hall? On the postcard mentioned above, you can see a doorway leading into that room, which doesn't have any windows of it's own.


Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: G.Michael on September 10, 2011, 10:41:53 AM
To "Russian Art Lover":

Suzanne Massie's book mentions that Gonzaga built a ballroom attached to the Rose Pavilion, and that he converted all four facades of the pavilion into "theater stages." This was done to celebrate Alexander I's return to Pavlovsk after his victory over Napoleon.

I don't know if this could be what your Italian source is referring to.
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Russian Art Lover on September 11, 2011, 04:43:23 PM
Thank you for that information. The source mentions in another place about the return of Alexander I (as you will see, the last two words mean Rose Pavilion):

Lavori di progettazione, di ristrutturazione e di allestimento di spettacoli a opera del G. proseguirono a Pavlovsk per tutto il periodo che vide la fertile intesa con Marija Fëdorovna; si ricordano, in particolare, i festeggiamenti del 1814 in onore dello zar Alessandro I vincitore di Napoleone, per i quali il G. mise in scena, tra l'altro, Il cosacco poeta, il ballo Il trionfo della Russia, ossia i Russi a Parigi di I.I. Valberch, O. Poirot, K.A. Kavos e allestì il padiglione rosa.

But I do think that maybe the source is getting confused and this is what it means. I do not think Suzanne Massie would have missed a whole separate theatre (albeit chamber) if this had been constructed. So I would tend to go along with your suggestion - thank you!
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: G.Michael on April 27, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
This link includes a drawing that is said to be Charles Cameron's design for the "large cabinet." I assume the design was never carried out, or at least it doesn't exist in this form now. But can someone tell me where the "large cabinet" was meant to be? Perhaps the Library of Paul I, which was eventually finished by Brenna and Voronikhin?

http://www.superstock.com/preview.asp?image=4266-21863&imagex=62&id=18650413&productType=3&pageStart=0&pageEnd=100&pixperpage=100&hitCount=106&filterForCat=&filterForFotog=
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on August 27, 2013, 09:30:57 AM
Pavlovsk palace period room " Art Nouveau " , with furnitures come from Alexander palace , Lower datcha of Peterhof , privates rooms of the Winter palace and Livadia palace :

(The tiger is now in the Alexander palace's billiart hall , isn't it ?)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/08/27//1308270429305012511500669.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1308270429305012511500669.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/08/27//1308270429445012511500671.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1308270429445012511500671.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/08/27//1308270429375012511500670.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1308270429375012511500670.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/08/27//1308270429495012511500672.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1308270429495012511500672.jpg)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: londo954 on August 27, 2013, 11:19:06 PM
I believe you could be right ... their was a polar bear in the Maple room.... Also I believe the white statue in the corner is also from the Maple Room (middle pic)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on November 19, 2013, 01:41:36 PM
125 books from the empress Maria Feodorovna's Library return to pavlovsk Palace !!

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/blog/index.blog/1451655/german-nobles-return-nazi-looted-books-to-pavlovsk/

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190845105012511747953.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190845105012511747953.jpg)(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190849555012511747970.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190849555012511747970.jpg)(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190845125012511747954.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190845125012511747954.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190844375012511747951.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190844375012511747951.jpg)(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190844285012511747949.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190844285012511747949.jpg)(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190844175012511747948.png) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190844175012511747948.png)(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190844435012511747952.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190844435012511747952.jpg)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on November 19, 2013, 02:27:29 PM
The heraldic super exlibris of empress Maria Feodorovna , wife of emperor Paul 1st .
It displays three coats of arms laid on large Russian double-headed eagle: the center one , with a smaller Russian Imperial eagle , is flanked by the coat of arms of the duchy of Wurtemberg-Montbéliard ( Maria Feodorovna's paternal family ) and the coat arms of the duchy of Holstein-Gottorp ( her husband's paternal family ).
The Imperial eagle is holding a ribbon with the cross of St. Catherine Order in its beaks.

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/11/19//1311190933105012511748245.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1311190933105012511748245.jpg)
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on November 02, 2014, 10:39:16 AM
18th Century Peel Tower Has Been Restored at Pavlovsk .

News from Paul Gilbert's blog Royal Russia : http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/blog/index.blog/1457537/18th-century-peel-tower-has-been-restored-at-pavlovsk/
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on April 28, 2016, 06:22:24 PM
Amazing aerial panoramas of Pavlovsk:

http://xn----7sbb4bxah.xn--p1ai/slides/Pavlovsk/Pavlovskiy_dvorec_panorama.jpg

Amazing one in winter:
http://xn----7sbb4bxah.xn--p1ai/slides/Pavlovsk/Pavlovskiy_dvorec_panorama_Saveliy_Hludnev.jpg

Bip Fortress:
http://xn----7sbb4bxah.xn--p1ai/slides/Pavlovsk/Krepost_Bip_Pavlovsk.jpg

Joanna
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on September 19, 2017, 10:57:08 AM
Empress Alexandra’s stillbirth in the wooden palace in Pavlovsk near St. Petersburg

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/09/wooden-palace-in-tsarskoe-selo-or.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on January 04, 2018, 10:29:23 AM
Grand Duke and Tchaikovsky – Pavlovsk Train Station, Saint Petersburg

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/01/music-hall-in-pavlovsk-train-station.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Inok Nikolai on January 07, 2018, 10:07:58 AM
I believe that this fact has already been mentioned elsewhere on this Forum, but some claim that the music hall at the station in Pavlovsk (patterned after the pleasure grounds of Vaux Hall, London) gave rise to the generic Russian word for a railway station: Vokzal Вокзал.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_Gardens

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вокзал
Title: Re: Pavlovsk, the Palaces
Post by: Joanna on January 09, 2018, 05:51:30 PM
... some claim that the music hall at the station in Pavlovsk (patterned after the pleasure grounds of Vaux Hall, London) gave rise to the generic Russian word for a railway station: Vokzal Вокзал.

I recently came across the same claim. Emperor Nicholas I's brother Mikhail Pavlovich had travelled to England as part of his 'educational' grand tour of Europe. Inheriting Pavlovsk after his mother's death in 1828, I wonder if he originated its use, then becoming popular expression.

Joanna