Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Palaces in St. Petersburg => Topic started by: JM on March 09, 2004, 08:34:17 PM

Title: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: JM on March 09, 2004, 08:34:17 PM
I was wondering if there are any photographs of the private rooms of Nicholas and Alexandra in the Winter Palace. Were there any pictures taken before these rooms were demolished? Does anybody know what these rooms looked like? Please post anything you know!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Greg_King on March 09, 2004, 09:03:47 PM
You can find photographs of these rooms in a number of books: "Nicholas and Alexandra: The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Russia" (the catalog from the exhibit); "Nikolai v Aleksandra" (Russian version of the same, from 1994); "The Winter Palace in the Reign of the Last Emperor" (this from memory-but I think the title is correct, published in Russia in 1998-2000); and "Ermitage: Istorii v Arkitekturya" by Boris Piotrovsky, 1991.  In Fulop-Miller's book on Rasputin there is a single photograph, identified I believe as one of Alix's rooms in the Alexander Palace, which is in fact her Sitting Room in the WP.  Geraldine Norman's book "The Hermitage" also has a few pictures of these rooms.

Finally-if you go rent a copy of Eisenstein's "October" you can see film footage of these rooms used in his movie.

Greg King
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on April 30, 2004, 12:02:16 PM
Does anyone have a copy of the layout and use of all the personal suite rooms, especially those facing the inner courtyard as well?  Apparently we cannot tour those rooms, at least I have not had access to them the two times I have been to St Petersburg.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on April 30, 2004, 09:29:56 PM
Joanna,
i had acces to the Nicholas´ and Alexandra´s rooms in 2001, but those inner rooms you are interested in are closed. they were bath rooms and so on and i understand they are too small to visit. In 2003 Nicholas´and Alexandra´s rooms, save the gothic library, were closed. At least in July.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on May 14, 2004, 10:40:16 AM
Hello Joanna!
From what i know the rooms of the ground floor just below Alexandra´s corner drawing room were occupied by the grand duchesses Olga and Alexandra Nicholaevna, daughters of Nicholas I. However, in 1855 these suite of rooms looking to the Neva and Admiralty were lavishly redecorated by Stakenschneider for the wedding of Grand Duke Nicholas Nicholaevich with Alexandra Petrovna(nee Princess Oldenburg).  The new rooms were lovely, as everything done by Stakenschneider.
I´ve always thought that the children rooms were in the second floor, above those of Nicholas and Alexandra, but i do not know the exact location. In fact, just above Alix´s corner drawing room there was Nicholas I´s room, and his study next door, and also his other rooms, all looking to the Admiralty.
The balcony you said is that of Nicholas I´s corner drawing room. There was also another balcony  in the first floor, in the corner study of Nicholas II, that had formerly been a lovely winter garden of Empress Alexandra Feodorovna(the first).
Relating Princess Dolgorukaya´s apartments, i read that Empress Maria Alexandrovna could hear from her rooms the steps(above her room´s ceiling) and noise of princess Dolgorukaya and her children, so i assume the Princess´rooms were right above those of the Empress.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 14, 2004, 08:54:51 PM
I vaguely recall reading that N II had a rather elaborate bath installed  in the private apartments at the Winter Palace.  Does this still exsist?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on May 27, 2004, 10:10:58 PM
Hello Joanna!

The first room after the malachite room would be the white-empire(one window), then silver room, corner drawing room, bedroom, boudoir, Nicholas´study(with arches), dressing room and bathroom and also a little room, the library, billiard room and finally the reception room(with adjoining dark room).

The room with Zinaida´s portrait is the billiard room, you can recognize it for the beautiful parquet floor that belonged to the former Pompeyan(?) dining room, that was destroyed to build Nichola´s famous White dining room.

There was three other staircases, one was just behind the bedroom, with another next door, and a third was off the white dining room. There was also a bigger and more formal staircase after Nicholas´reception room, with two windows looking to the enclosed garden and Admiralty.

Hope this will help...
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Greg_King on May 28, 2004, 04:13:04 AM
I'm dying here, because I have a very complete plan of these rooms, but no way to post it!  However, to add a few more details: From the Concert Hall, you enter the Malachite Hall; that opens to the Arabian Hall (long, narrow, extending south toward Palace Square); that opens to the Rotunda, which in turn leads to the Dark Corridor; directly off the Rotunda, opening east, was the private chapel.  From the Malachite Hall, doors opened to the White Dining Room, facing a small inner court.  Also from the Malachite Hall, doors opened to the Empire Drawing Room, overlooking the Neva, then came the Silver Drawing Room, then Alexandra's corner Drawing Room.  Continuing along the side of the Palace was the bedroom; then A's boudoir; door at the back opened to her bathroom which overlooked the small inner court; then A's dressing room.  Nicholas's study was at the corner of the wing, connecting two rooms, one long, one short, via an arch.  His bathroom was reached from a door on the right side of the bed-down a corridor-it overlooked the inner court.  From N's study, a passage room, then a room for an adjutant, these extending back on a west-east axis, into the body of the palace.  His Library opened off these, then next his Billiard Room, then his reception room, next to the Saltykov Stair.

As to his bath and tub-I've got copies of the plans for the room.  At the WP, Krasovsky designed a tub, set in a recess lined with concrete and faced with Dresden tiles, which was reached by eight marble steps; it was indeed sunken.

Greg King
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on May 28, 2004, 08:18:32 AM
Greg,
Can't you send it to Bob so that they can post it?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 28, 2004, 11:36:29 AM
Joanna, which Baedeker do you have?  I recently sold  a pre-revolution [I think]  Baedeker & I do not recall a floor plan.  It might have been a bit later [20's perhaps]. If I missed a floorplan I shall be most regretful of selling it !!
Greg, what book or such do your floor plans come from ?  I have or had, haven't seen it in years, a floorplan from  I suppose the 30's. It is stored away in files which I have not dug through in years. The interesting thing about it is, though, all the captions are in Japanese. I suppose it is Japanese, that is where I found it.  I recall trying to match up rooms with a modern plan and promptly got lost, which is why it was filed away.
Cheers,
Robert
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Greg_King on May 29, 2004, 06:22:22 AM
I'll see what I can do-the plans are from an immense book (not kidding-700 pages, 1,000 photos and plans) on the architecture of the Winter Palace that I picked up in Petersburg about a decade ago.

Greg King
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on May 29, 2004, 06:52:21 AM
Greg, which book?? you know me, I love to know where AF kept her shoes and riciculous stuff like that. It helps me build apicture of daily life and with that she becomes more real!!!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on May 30, 2004, 10:50:47 AM
Hello Joana,

There was a reprint of the famous Baedecker guide for Russia from 1914(if i remember well):

"Russia: a handbook for travelers".

It´s out of stock and can be quite expensive in the second hand market, but have to be very intersting...
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Janet_Ashton on May 30, 2004, 03:03:18 PM
Quote
I do want to find pre 1917 Baedeker not only for the fascination of descriptions of the buildings then but especially what was written of Tsarskoye Selo!

Joanna


Joanna
      If you can't get an inter-library loan and don't mind waiting maybe a month I can get the descriptions of Tsarskoe from the 1914 Baedeker and post them.....'cause alas this book will cost you your life-savings to buy!

Janet
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Daniel Briere on May 30, 2004, 04:14:27 PM
Indeed a facsimile of the the 1914 English edition of the Baedeker Guide for Russia was printed in 1971 by Arno Press Random House. The book is much bigger than the original, which makes it easier to read. The maps and plans (in B & W) aren’t too good (if I recall correctly the original edition had color maps) but the book is fascinating to read! There is almost no information about the Alexander Palace though, as it was closed to the public. As for the Winter Palace, pre-revolutionary Beadeker guides provide no floor plan (only of the Hermitage part) and no information about the private rooms as they were off-limits to visitors.

The Parade and State Rooms of the Winter Palace could be visited “during the absence of the Imperial Family. Visitors obtain cards of admission on presenting their passports at the office of the Chief of the Palace Police”. The Crown Jewel Room (top floor) could also be seen, but only by permission “from the Court Chamberlain at the request of the traveller’s ambassador”! The Imperial Crown and regalia (now in Moscow) were kept there.

I might add that the private rooms were shown to the public after the Revolution, including Alexander II’s Study which had been kept intact since he died there in 1881. Some post-revolutionary guide books provide some interesting information about some of these rooms. I don’t recall if they were emptied in the 1930s or as WWII broke out.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on May 30, 2004, 09:01:38 PM
Hello Joanna,

I´ve just read that some interior decoration of the Empress´bathroom in the WP is preserved, and that the room has now showcases with museum exhibits. I´m amazed with this information since i never saw anything of the kind when i visited those rooms...
Also read that the children´s rooms were in the first floor, and that in the Empress´corner drawing room is still preserved something she scratched(?) with her ring in a window pane(I didn´t notice that either...).

Next time i´ll try to look more carefully...if i find these rooms opened, for one never know...
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Janet_Ashton on May 31, 2004, 02:41:11 PM
Quote
Many many thanks Antonio, Janet & Daniel!

I will search for Baedeker 1914 and Russia A Handbook for Travelers. Janet I will write you of my success or not ok!

Also seeing Daniel's comments of Alexander II's study opened after the revolution, I am wondering if Baedeker published any guidebooks during the 1920's or 30's? Up to 1933 I know that the Russians were enthusiastic in showing foreigners the AP as it was part of the itinerary for visiting dignataries and VIP's but of guidebooks in English I would love to find out.


Yes, please do let me know if you find the Baedeker! (original or reprint)

I think the private rooms of Alexander II were also occasionally open before the revolution - certainly I have an account written by a Henry Norman ("All the Russias", published London: Heinemann, 1902) which describes his own visit. He was one of those who had ambassadorial permission to get in, and I think he was an MP, so he may have had special privileges, but the blood-stained bed on which Alexander died was being shown then as very much a holy relic of the state. I wonder what spin the Soviets put on it...?

Janet
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on May 31, 2004, 02:41:16 PM
Greg,
What is the title of the book on the Winter Palace?  I have a very large book that I bought in the Winter Palace in 2000 that is 560pp.  It is called "Ermitazh - Istoria stroitelstva i architektura zdanii" by BB Piotrovsky (1991).  The English title is Hermitage - History of Buildings and Erection and Architecture, though the book is basically in Russian, only the photos and drawings have english next to them...
If it is this book, on what page is the plan you are referring to?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Greg_King on May 31, 2004, 09:53:52 PM
The book is called something similar to (I have been looking round here for it but it must be buried so am relying on memory) "The Imperial Family in the Winter Palace" (but in Russian), published in 1993 I think-it's not the one Pers mentions, nor the book "The Winter Palace in the Reign of Nicholas II."  However, I do have the Boris Piotrovsky book, Pers-if you look at the plan for the apartments of Alexandra Feodorovna, wife of Nicholas I, they basically represent the layout of N/A's rooms except that the rear rooms (bathrooms) overlooking the small inner court were different, and the staircase/hanging garden in the corner of the projection was replaced with N's Study.  I believe the Piotrovsky book also has a plan for N's tub, does it not?

Greg King
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on June 01, 2004, 08:14:43 AM
Hi Greg,
You are right.  It has the plans for the tub.  I am too computer illiterate to do it, but I can make a copy of it and mail it to you to post.  Please check for my private e-mail address under members and contact me, and I'll send it to you.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Greg_King on June 01, 2004, 08:21:28 AM
Hi Pers-

Actually I'm in the same boat as you-I have no scanner, so am unable to post any pictures or upload them to a page to do so (which is what I gather the procedure is).  So I'm afraid mailing them to me wouldn't do any good!  But-I did find a less detailed plan of the private apartments at the WP under Nicholas II, and have it as a JPEG, so if anyone wants a copy, please email me at my home email listed under my profile and I will be happy to forward a copy to you.

Greg King
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on June 04, 2004, 10:09:02 AM
From Greg:
(http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/forumimages/pvt-apts.gif)
A.  Malachite Hall
B.  Empire Drawing Room
C.  Silver Drawing Room
D.  Alexandra's Drawing Room
E.  Nicholas and Alexandra's bedroom
F.  Alexandra's Dressing Room
G.  Alexandra's Boudoir
H.  Nicholas's Study
I.  Nicholas's Bathroom
J.  White Dining Room
K.  Blackamoor Hall or Arabian Drawing Room
L.  Nicholas's Gothic Library
M.  Rotunda
N.  Private Chapel
O.  Nicholas's Billiards Room
P.  Nicholas's Reception Room

Alix's bathroom is almost directly behind her dressing room-just not marked
on this

Best,

Greg
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Nick_Nicholson on June 07, 2004, 05:05:45 PM
Hi everyone,

I just sent about six or seven pictures of the Winter Palace Apartments to the Forum Admin for posting.  Hopefully, they will go up so that everyone can see them and compare them to Greg's terrific map.

Best,

Nick
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on June 07, 2004, 05:29:53 PM
A.F.'s Boudoir:


A.F.'s Study:
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on June 07, 2004, 05:31:31 PM
Empire Salon:


Silver Drawing Room:
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on June 07, 2004, 05:34:12 PM
N. & A.'s Bedroom

N.'s Library:
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Janet_Ashton on June 30, 2004, 01:49:15 PM
Quote
Many many thanks Janet_Ashton for your kind offer to post the descriptions of Tsarskoye Selo from Baedeker 1914!!!! I have found the book that Antonio and Daniel described as a reprint "Russia A Handbook for Travelers" in the main reference library here! I will diligently spend my quarters on the copier machine!!

Again my many thanks!
Joanna



Glad you've managed to find one! Have fun with the photocopier...:-)

Janet
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on July 02, 2004, 05:32:41 AM
With reference to Empress Alexandra's etching on a window of the private apartments in the Winter Palace - you will find this high  on one of the windows in Alix's Drawing Room.   If I recall correctly it reads -

'1902  Watching the Hussars   Alix'

I understand the reason it appears to have been written out of arm's length is because a small, raised platform ran beneath the windows of the Drawing Room.  Alix must have been standing on this, watching a parade on the Quay below when she scratched this legend.

tsaria
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on July 23, 2004, 06:21:01 PM
Thank you so much for the map you provided for the Winter Palace, Greg King! It was invaluable on my recent trip.

Since the orientation of your map doesn't match the map that the Hermitage provides, I reoriented it to match the Hermitage's layout. I also went ahead and updated your key to match the Hermitage's key. (Thank you!)

First image: King's map reoriented
(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WinterPalace-pvt-apts.jpg)

Second Image: Portion of the Hermitage's map that complements King's.
(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WinterPalaceMap.jpg)

A.  Malachite Hall [189]
B.  Empire Drawing Room [187]
C.  Silver Drawing Room [186]
D.  Alexandra's Drawing Room [185]
E.  Nicholas and Alexandra's bedroom [184]
F.  Alexandra's Dressing Room [183]
G.  Alexandra's Boudoir [182]
H.  Nicholas's Study [180-81]
I.  Nicholas's Bathroom
J.  White Dining Room [188]
K.  Blackamoor Hall or Arabian Drawing Room [155]
L.  Nicholas's Gothic Library [178]
M.  Rotunda [156]
N.  Private Chapel [Closed. Can't Access. I repositioned the stairs on the Hermitage map and "created" a new room to show where it can be located!]  
O.  Nicholas's Billiards Room [177]
P.  Nicholas's Reception Room [175-76?]

Note: Rooms O-P have changed. Whereas King's map has 2 rooms, there are now 3 rooms occupying this same space. If I can remember correctly, O [177] is quite small and P [175-76] is quite large.  I think I IDed them correctly, but I'm not 100% positive.  Perhaps a future traveler can confirm this point.

Amy


Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on September 01, 2004, 11:27:01 AM


it's the moorish bathroom that's situated behind the room marked 'F' on the above plan (they have a communicating door)

i've always wondered what this room looks like now.   since it's not open to the public, it could be in any condition.   it may have even escaped destruction....who knows?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on September 29, 2004, 01:49:29 AM
Quote
The private apartment of Nicholas II & Aleksandra Fyodorovna was not the same private apartment or apartments of Alexander II & Maria Aleksandrovna.  Nicholas & Aleksandra's private apartment occupied what was once the private apartment of Nicholas' great-grandmother, Aleksandra Fyodorovna, the wife of Nicholas I.  Their decor & decorations replaced hers, which had been designed principally by the architect Bryllov among others.  I have, somewhere, a picture of the dressing room from that apartment, and it was very beautiful before it was destroyed, with an order of Corinthian pilasters lining the walls.
 
Alexander II & Maria Aleksandrovna occupied different quarters in the Winter Palace.  Their rooms were located  farther along in the same wing, on the same floor, beginning roughly where N & A's rooms stopped, and continuing all the way to the end of the building.  If I remember correctly, the "family" rooms were the suite of rooms facing onto the Palace courtyard.  The dining room was the room in the exact centre of the courtyard facade.  I think this is the room the assassin from "People's Will" planted a dynamite bomb beneath in an earlier attempt to assissinate the Emperor.  He survived the attempt, because he was in another room when the bomb went off, but I believe something like a dozen others were killed.
 
Alexander's wife's rooms began at the Palace Square end of the building and contiuned onward until they ended with the Emperor's rooms.  There isn't a plan of that section of the palace on site, so I will walk you through the first part of her rooms verbally.  Beginning at the SW corner of the Palace is the Golden Drawing Room, followed by the Raspberry Drawing Room.  These 2 rooms take up the entire breadth of the pavilion, where the pavilion at the other end of the Palace (N & A's apartment) is divided into 5 rooms.  Turning the corner, the facade recedes.  The first room here is the Empress' boudoir.  Next this, forming a pivot between the corner pavilion & the long march of the centre part of this wing of the Palace, marching down to the North end, where N & A lived, is the Empress' bedroom.  I presume her more private & intimate rooms were behind the bedroom, in one direction or the other.  The decor of the principal rooms of the suite, which is by the architect Stakenschneider, is largely intact, although these rooms were, the last I knew, used for display.
 
Just beyond what was once Nicholas' Private reception room, there is a staircase, which serves to separate the last Imperial Family's private rooms from those of Alexander II.  Going up this staircase to the next floor, it pretty much debouches onto a long corridor, which was once known as Freylinskiy Koridor [I may not have transliterated that correctly], the "Corridor of the Maids of Honour".  In the rooms along this corridor -- although I do not know whether it was on the courtyard side or the outer, Admiralty side, or both, Alexander installed the Princess & their children.  Logically, it would seem that the Pss' rooms would come first, and that the children's rooms would be beyond hers, but adjoining them.  This would put them near enough over the private rooms of the Empress & in the vicinity of her bedroom, that she quite possibly may have heard the "noise" from the children on more than one occasion.


(http://)


KEY:

A-P = Nikolai II & Aleksandra Feodorovna's private apartments

A II = the private apartments of emperor Aleksandr II

MA = the private apartments of empress Mariia Aleksandrovna

1 = the First Reserve Apartment
       -- (formerly the private apartments of Mariia Nikolaevna & her
           husband, the duke of Leuchtenburg)
       -- (note: the 5 large rooms facing Palace Square were later  
           diverted for use as the 5 Military Halls, housing a collectiom of
           military paintings)

2 = the Second Reserve Apartment
        -- (formerly the private apartments of the young grand dukes
            Aleksandr, Vladimir, Serge & Pavl Aleksandrovitch)

3 = the Third Reserve Apartment
        -- (formerly the private apartments of the young grand dukes
         Nikolai, Mikhail & Konstantin Nikolaevich)

** -- the Fourth & Fifth Reserve Apartments were located on the ground floor beneath N II & AF's private apartments and part of A II's.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Greg_King on September 29, 2004, 02:52:01 AM
To add to the above plan:

The fourth room down under Alexander II was his study/bedroom, where he died.  The rooms furthest left in the projection at the bottom belonging to Marie Alexandrovna are the Crimson Drawing Room and the Gold Drawing Room.  Continuing back up north, the small room with two widows, facing north, is her crimson boudoir, opening to her blue bedroom, overlooking the small, unmarked inner court.

Greg King
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: James1941 on October 11, 2004, 01:18:16 AM
For anyone who might be interested I would recommend this excellent book: "The Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg."  It was published in 1994 by Alain
de Gourcoff, Editeur, 18, rue d"Aumale, Paris, IXe: and again in 1995 by the State Hermitage Museum. The preface is written by Mikhail Borisovitch Piotrovsky.
It contains the collection of watercolor portraits of the rooms of the Winter Palace commissioned by Tsar Nicholas I, and completed under Tsar Alexander II. The watercolors of the rooms are fantastic. Both the state rooms and the private rooms of the imperial family are here with a good explanation of the rooms and their decor, in English. There is also an excellent floor plan of the rooms in use as of the reign of Alexander II. For any one interested in how the Romanovs used the Winter Palace this book is a must, but it is expensive.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: James1941 on January 23, 2005, 09:34:55 PM
 :-/A question concerning Nicholas II's and Alexandra's more intimate rooms in the Winter Palace.
I recently watch the famous film October about the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks. The dramatic climax of the movie is the so-called storming of the Winter Palace. Although the movie is pure propaganda, most of the scenes were shot on location in the palace (the famous shot of Kerensky climbing the Jordan Staircase that seems to go up and up and up). There are many interesting shots of rooms in the Winter Palace. In one scene after the storming a soviet soldier is seen standing over a comode chair, opening the lid of the seat and running his hand around the top of the chamber pot all the while leering and grinning into the camera. The scene is identified as being in the chamber of the empress (Alexandera).
Question: Did the Winter Palace have indoor plumbing--that is flush toliets and like--, or were they still using chamber pots as late as 1917? ???
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on February 14, 2005, 08:57:42 PM
Quote

This report (in five parts) of the rooms of Nicholas & Alexandra in the Winter Palace with various photographs, especially of N's study and library, states that the children's rooms were on the ground floor and their entrance was on the side of the Neva which is no longer there. Alexandra had direct access from her rooms above.

http://schools.keldysh.ru/sch444/projekts/2003-3/Pages/page412.html

Joanna



i've read in several sources that their rooms were on the 2nd floor.   the site you provided the link for says the the children's rooms were on the ground floor with a now non-existant entrance opening onto the neva side of the palace.    given the well-grounded fear of assasination (remember, a bomb exploded under the relative safety
of Aleksandr III's private train, & a bomb had exploded within the realm of the winter palace during the reign of Aleksandr II), i have serious doubts that Nikolai II & Aleksandra feodorovna would have  allowed a direct entrance into the children's rooms, let alone from the street itself.     it seems much more likely, they would have installed their children on the much harder to reach 2nd floor.

i feel safe in saying that the author of the that website confused the children of the first Nicholas & Alexandra with those of the second.   even though the author mentions Nik I's children/daughters having occupied the same rooms as those of Nik.II, it just seems highly unlikely.

but i could be mistaken......
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on February 15, 2005, 12:44:13 AM
About the Gothic hall on the ground floor
(reference to the Suslov book)
I love this book very very much.
Suslov worked as the account worker in the Winter Palace, then after revolution he became the museum staff but he was killed by the Stalin's order in the late 30ths
(Maybe if somebody will translate this book it could be
bestseller because of the detailed description of the
events during the reign of the Last Tsar)
About Gothic room: it is in very good condition.
this room was made for one daughter of the Nikolay I
and now in this room there is exhibition of the things of primitive era. Because of this the tourists is not going there.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on February 16, 2005, 07:00:08 AM
Quote
About the Gothic hall on the ground floor
(reference to the Suslov book)
I love this book very very much.
Suslov worked as the account worker in the Winter Palace, then after revolution he became the museum staff but he was killed by the Stalin's order in the late 30ths
(Maybe if somebody will translate this book it could be
bestseller because of the detailed description of the
events during the reign of the Last Tsar)
About Gothic room: it is in very good condition.
this room was made for one daughter of the Nikolay I
and now in this room there is exhibition of the things of primitive era. Because of this the tourists is not going there.





this is the ground floor of the winter palace.  
where is the gothik hall ?
(on this plan, the neva embankment is at the top; N&A's rooms are on the floor above this, and they're in the top left corner wing)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: londo954 on February 16, 2005, 09:26:52 AM
The only Gothic Hall I have heard of was at Gatchina
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on February 16, 2005, 09:49:07 AM
This gothic room was made by Architector Brullov for 2 daughters of Nikolay I - Olyga and Alexandra just after the fire of 1837. Now it is room No.16 and call Neolite era hall.
The gothical pillars are marvelouse. All room has military khaki color (very popular now)
The location is just down of the Malakhite room but on the ground floor.
By the way , the private rooms of Nikolay 1 - Alexandra Fyoudorovna on 3rd floor almost without any changes:
but tourists are not allowed there.
Best regards.
(Mr. Londo did not hear about it , because there is not the picture of this room in albums and very limited persons has an interest to the neolite era)
But there is a gothic room in Marble Palace of Konstantine too.
There is a gothic room in the Stanislavsky House too etc.
This room in Winter Palace is quite big - a little smaller than Malakhite or almost the same.




Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on February 23, 2005, 10:47:05 AM
There was a private entrance for the Emperor and Empress as well as their children on the Palace Embankment right below the Concert Hall.  I'm not sure whether the door led down into the basement or up towards the ground floor (european)/first floor (american).  Quite a number of photographs exist, showing this entrance.  It had a sort of wooden structure around/over it. :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Bolin on February 27, 2005, 10:11:57 AM
Does anyone know if there was a Winter Garden connected to the rooms of Nicholas II and Alexandra?
Was it near the White Dining room overlooking a courtyard?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on February 27, 2005, 10:39:09 AM
Hello Bolin,

There was a wonderful Winter Garden relatively near to the White Dinning room. It was off the Portrait Gallery that ran behind the Neva Suit of Parade Halls. This Winter Garden looked on to the main courtyard. Today, there´s no trace left of its decoration. Last time i visited the museum there were icons and religious objects exhibited in that room.

Here you have a watercolor depicting that Winter Garden. Hope you like it:

(http://img182.exs.cx/img182/5977/wintergardenhermitage6ek.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)

Antonio
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Bolin on February 27, 2005, 11:08:21 AM
Antonio,

Thanks so much for the quick response and posting the watercolor of the Winter Garden. I asked this question as a result of a photograph that is part of the current exhibit-At home with the Last Tsar and his family depicting Nicholas and his sister-in-law Elizabeth seated at a white draped table and in the background there are tall flowering vines against the walls along with a birdcage with a parrot and the ceiling appears vaulted but this could just be arches and there are columnes that begin at waist level on a balcony wall. The curator described the locale as the Winter Garden.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Bolin on February 27, 2005, 02:21:47 PM
Thanks to Antonio's help it has been determined that the background to the photo I descibed is a balcony of the New Palace at Peterhof and not the Winter Garden of the Winter Palace.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on March 01, 2005, 07:52:03 AM
Brian & Hikaru.
My understanding of the location of the Gothic Hall of Nicholas I's daughers is highlighted in yellow on this plan.  Hikaru's response has me a little confused because my Guide of the Hermitage(from 2002) labels this as Room 12.  I have read discriptions of the Gothic Room was on the Neva side, and my guide shows Room 16 as facing the Admiralty.  Any help in clarifying this would be appreciated.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/winterpalmygroundfl.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/GothicDrawingRoom.jpg)

Bob G
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on March 01, 2005, 08:42:18 AM
Yes this is the Gothic room.Your understanding is completely right .The room is facing riverside.
I took the Room No. from the Russian Hermitage web-site.
In Guide Book of 1959 it is no.16 too.
I have not recent guidebook with me here.
The color of the room is the same now and beutiful pillars are there too.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on March 01, 2005, 11:34:35 AM
Thanks for clarifying that.  I have pieced together the location of Nicholas I's daughters room from the watercolors in The Winter Palace book, but it unfortunately doesn't have a plan of the ground floor, so I was excited to see Brian's posting.
Bob
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on March 03, 2005, 09:58:54 AM
Quote
Thanks for clarifying that.  I have pieced together the location of Nicholas I's daughters room from the watercolors in The Winter Palace book, but it unfortunately doesn't have a plan of the ground floor, so I was excited to see Brian's posting.
Bob



glad i could help  ;)   ;D
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on March 03, 2005, 02:05:35 PM
I saw in one of my old books that the Gothic room in the Mariinsky Palace made by Shtakensneider was almost the same as in the Winter Palace. ( Winter Palace ' room made first) .Mariinsky Palace was made for the elder daughter of the Nikolay I Maria.
Maybe she liked that room in Winter Palace so much so asked to make almost the same thing?
I never went inside Mariinsky Palace ( it was governmental building, as it is now too) so I do not know if the room still there or not.
(Sorry, I have no scan, so I can not put the picture)
The pillars and general view  are the same.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Ming on May 12, 2005, 11:11:42 PM
Does anyone know anything about the Malachite room?  Where it was, how it was used, does it still exist, etc.?

Just wondering.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on May 13, 2005, 09:08:13 AM
The Malachite room is in the Winter Palace (now the Hermitage) in St. Petersburg.  It is one of the first rooms of the private Imperial Suite on the Neva following the enfilade of The Antechamber, The Nicholas Hall, and the Concert Hall. It is named for the malachite Columns and decorations that were created by Alexander Briullov after the 1837 fire.  It still exists today.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Daniel Briere on May 13, 2005, 07:22:01 PM
Adding to what Bob as written, this was the room where members of the Imperial Family assembled before a State occasion or Grand Ball. When everybody was ready, the doors to the Concert Hall were opened by the Court « Arabs » and the Imperial Family walked out in procession, lined up according to their degree of proximity to the Throne, behind the Emperor and Empress (or, when present, the Dowager Empress).

Fortunately, most of the pre-revolutionary decor and furniture of this beautiful room has survived. Here’s a link to a virtual tour :
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm88_0_1_62.html
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 13, 2005, 08:04:46 PM
It is a very beautiful room. I think it is also where Romanov brides were "dressed" with the train and heavy jewels.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on May 14, 2005, 06:55:58 AM
The Malachite Coupe highlighted on the Hermitage site originally came from the Stroganoff palace and only came into the Malachite Room after the revolution.  
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on May 14, 2005, 08:21:59 AM
It is also the room where the Provisionary Government was arrested by Bolshevicks on 25.10/07.11.1917.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on May 19, 2005, 10:20:11 AM
Forgive me for asking what might seem like an ignorant question, but with the marvelous floor plans that have been posted, I'm wondering which rooms were used for "ordinary business." I'm not talking about formal events that would have taken place in the grand halls and ballrooms, but the day-to-day running of the government.

Thanks.

--Gavin.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Arleen on May 19, 2005, 12:11:39 PM
Brian dear, Your room plans are so much appreciated.  But I am wondering if there are any plans that have the rooms written in.  I have no idea of any of the rooms.....and I would love to know what is what.
..Arleen
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on May 22, 2005, 12:43:40 AM
Quote
Forgive me for asking what might seem like an ignorant question, but with the marvelous floor plans that have been posted, I'm wondering which rooms were used for "ordinary business." I'm not talking about formal events that would have taken place in the grand halls and ballrooms, but the day-to-day running of the government.



i think the day-to-day running of the government took place in another building.   government offices were, i believe, located across the square from the palace.

the Winter Palace was the residence of the monarch.   although, one could say Nikolai II's study &, to a lesser degree, the Gothik Library were the "center of the empire"  while he was in residence.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: amedeo on May 22, 2005, 08:40:26 AM
Nicholas II lived almost always in the Alexander Palace.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on May 22, 2005, 06:07:29 PM
Quote
Nicholas II lived almost always in the Alexander Palace.



that's true.    however, one of his earliest homes with Aleksandra, were the rooms of the Winter Palace that his new sister-in-law, Elizaveta Feodorovna, had decorated for the newlyweds.   he and Aleksandra moved from his old bachelor's quarters in his mother's Anichkov palace, into those newly redecorated rooms of the Winter palace.   they continued to occupy those same rooms for many years, especially during the height of the Imperial Court's social season.    it was primarily after the birth of Aleksei that the truly began to withdraw, literally & figuratively, from the court life & the world in general.    as their stress & anxiety over Aleksei grew, the time they spent in the Winter Palace waned.    another reason for that, may have also been their desire to keep Aleksei's illness a secret.  

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on June 09, 2005, 10:59:58 PM
This room was constructed for private use of the wife of Nicholas I  Alexandra Feodorovna.
This room also was a part of the private appartment of the Nicholas II's family.
In this room the heroine of the famouse russian fairytale (By Bazhov) "Malachite Box" have disappeared.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on June 09, 2005, 11:47:51 PM
Malachite room also used as a place for big Romanov family branches ( if i could say so) on the big occasions such New Year, St. Georgy's day, the Birthday of one of the family members.

This room also was used by Alexandra Feodorovna as  reception (audience) room.

On the May 3th of 1915 GD Tatiana Nikolaevna hold the several days meeting of the Committee which help the people who suffered from the War.
The representatives from all big cities and regions gathered together in this room.
Alix was very proud of her daughter.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Lanie on June 10, 2005, 12:56:35 AM
Quote
Malachite room also used as a place for big Romanov family branches ( if i could say so) on the big occasions such New Year, St. Georgy's day, the Birthday of one of the family members.

This room also was used by Alexandra Feodorovna as  reception (audience) room.

On the May 3th of 1915 GD Tatiana Nikolaevna hold the several days meeting of the Committee which help the people who suffered from the War.
The representatives from all big cities and regions gathered together in this room.
Alix was very proud of her daughter.


Hikaru, where did you read this about Tatiana?  I know she was the head of thoe committee but I'd like ot know more for something I've been working on about Tatiana Nikolaevna!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on June 10, 2005, 05:39:53 AM
Dear Lanie, Thank you for reading my post.
I read my information in the book of Vadim Nesin " The imperial winter palace during the reign of the last emperor (russion one).
Unfortunately I could not add more ifm than you have.
I could add that 14th September of 1914 Emperor have founded this Commitee. The second daughter of the Emperor became the head of this committee.
In the Meeiting of Malachite Room participated the the representative from various regions and organizations which  entered into the Committee. The meeting took several days.
Maybe if you need more ifm you have to try to read Russian newspapers of those times. If you have problems with Russian language let me know.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on June 10, 2005, 12:47:13 PM
Alix's and Olyga 's Commitee's meetings also had place in the Malachite Room.
Their Committee helped the families and relatives of the people who died or suffered from the war.
It is interesting that Tatiana was the Head of the Committee while Olyga was just the Vice-Chairman of Mother's Commitee.
Olyga had not her own Commitee.
I also can say that both Olyga and Tatiana knew perfectly all the names of the Divisions and regiments, which names both girls wrote on each page of their diaries. It is incredible, but on each page there is an name of other regiment.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on July 05, 2005, 01:29:35 PM
I would like to add 2 intresting points:
The panels made by Karelian birch tree in the bedroom of N and A. in WP did not disappeared.
We could see them at the bottom of the staircase of New Hermitage . They transferred to  something like cloakroom in 1930ths.
In Alix's WC the wooden toilet (or closet?) has preserved.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Arleen on August 02, 2005, 04:00:09 PM
It is really exciting Joanna to be able to see the etching!  Thank you so much for posting it.  Makes me want to reach out and touch the window, where she touched!

I've looked thru the Hermitage website in English, but never run across anything so exciting....if you know of something more in English please post it for us.

..Arleen
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robby on August 05, 2005, 09:59:00 AM
My friend Mary is been there she said that it was a beautiful palace! Much gold on the walls en big lamps with cristal, and i have seen it two on a documantery cold: Death at Midnight about the Romanov's. :D
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: nikks on September 09, 2005, 08:49:14 AM
I don't like very muc Malachite room, beceouse it seems so cold and sad! :'(
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: nikks on September 09, 2005, 08:50:56 AM
Has anyone a recent ground floor plan of the Palace?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on October 24, 2005, 01:26:25 PM
The maps at the Hermitage site are excellent.

Here's a link for the ground floor:
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm88_0_0.html
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: RomanovFan on October 28, 2005, 07:44:10 PM
Are there any ballrooms in the Winter Palace? If so, are there any photos or paintings?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 28, 2005, 09:49:25 PM
St. Georges Hall is a ballroom and of course any of the Halls and throne rooms acted as ballrooms
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: rgt9w on October 29, 2005, 11:47:59 AM
I apologize in advance if this question has been addressed elsewhere.

Does the dining room that was targeted in the Winter Palace assassination attempt of Alexander II still exist? If so, what is it's current use?

I was reading Edvard Radzinsky's new book "Alexander II" and he describes the room as the yellow dining room.

Thank you any information you can provide.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Arleen on October 30, 2005, 02:24:37 PM
Would someone mark the yellow dining room on a floorplan and post it for rgt9w?  Then I could see it too!

Thanks,
A
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: rgt9w on November 01, 2005, 07:53:18 PM
Searching the official Hermitage website, I found a watercolor of the "Green Dining Room". Unfortunately, I could not locate one for a "Yellow Dining Room"
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Angwen on November 01, 2005, 09:35:17 PM
I love malachite! All the green & swirls are so cool.

Yeah, I'm back!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Pritchard on November 02, 2005, 12:03:00 AM
FYI:

The malachite souvenirs offered for sale in Saint Petersburg and Moscow are not Russian in origin, that is not from the old malachite mines in the Urals, but rather from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Years ago I ran into a Congolese man who supplied the flea market traders at Izmailovsky Park with their malachite wares. He told me that it was now cheaper to import the Congolese malachite than mine it in the Urals. It seems as if nothing is safe from globalisation.

David
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on November 23, 2005, 10:59:27 AM
It seems that no matter how many times I visit the official Hermitage website, I can always find something new and interesting. Most recently, I came across a beautiful picture of what was described as the Hermitage Library.

My questions are: Where within the Winter Palace/Hermitage complex was the library located? And does the library still exist today, and not only as a room but as a library?

Unfortunately, I can't seem to figure out how to upload the image. But perhaps someone will know the room I'm referring to.

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on November 23, 2005, 12:55:26 PM
Probably you're referring to this room:
(http://hermitagemuseum.org/imgs_Ru/05/hm5_2_1_2_big.jpg)
It's the Nicholas II's Library, located in the Winter Palace at the side facing the Admiralty.

Prior to 1917, there were two other libraries in what is now the Hermitage Museum: the Imperial Hermitage Foreign Library and the Imperial Hermitage Russian Library. The latter was intended for the palace staff's recreational and educational use.

Various book collections within the Hermitage (including that shown on the photo) are parts of the museum's large (over 700,000 items) research library that is closed to the general public but may be visited with a special permission.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on November 23, 2005, 01:27:31 PM
Mike, thank you for the reply, but no that is not the room. I wish I could figure out how you inserted that image.

Perhaps, instead, this link will work. Either way, do you know where within the complex the other libraries were located? Were they within the palace itself or in the New Hermitage?

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/fullSize.mac/fullSize?selLang=English&dlViewId=V%2B40%2B40%2B23ECBAND8LBQVC&size=small&selCateg=picture&dlCategId=YM7M0UKAH%2B23%2B23NDIXD&comeFrom=quick
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on November 23, 2005, 03:49:40 PM
To insert an image, use the [img] tag, as explained in the Help section.

The library view that you posted is dated 1826, therefore the room cannot be in the New Hermitage built in the 1840s-1850s. Moreover, I've a strong feeling that it doesn't exist anymore. The Winter Palace/Hermitage complex was rebuilt several times, including after the 1837 great fire, during which a library was known to have perished. Probably it was that same library pictured by Alexei Tyranov.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on November 23, 2005, 03:55:54 PM
Mike,
I'm pretty sure the room still exists and in the guide to the museum is Room 128, The Kolyvan Vase Room.
You can see a picture of it on the Hermitage web site and compare the details to the 1826 drawing.
Here's the link:
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/05/hm5_2_4_10.html

But you're right, it is not in the New Hermitage, but in the Large Hermitage along the Neva.

BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2005, 12:26:57 AM
Quote
the room still exists and in the guide to the museum is Room 128, The Kolyvan Vase Room.

No, the Ancient Rome Hall that contains the Kolyvan Vase was built in 1851... Look also at the columns, their bases are quite different from those on the 1826 library picture.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on November 24, 2005, 05:46:19 AM
Mike,
I stand corrected, but those rooms certainly look like one another.  I have to believe the new room was based on the old one and may have even used parts of it.  
I'll have to do a little more research on this one!
BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on November 27, 2005, 12:14:02 AM
Quote
I am curious if these rooms today have been restored as library exhibits or are used for art displays.

The former library rooms at the New Hermitage are parts of the ancient Greek and Roman section, mainly sculpture.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on December 16, 2005, 08:37:07 PM
Quote
Searching the official Hermitage website, I found a watercolor of the "Green Dining Room". Unfortunately, I could not locate one for a "Yellow Dining Room"





are you sure you don't mean the Yellow Drawing Room, which was part of the duke of Leuchtenburg's apartments?     cuz, i don't recall a yellow dining room......
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on December 16, 2005, 09:16:26 PM
Does   anyone have a pic  of  OTMAAs bedrooms
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on December 19, 2005, 01:15:32 PM
Quote


i believe this was the location of the former dining room (the one blown up by the bomb).    was it really known as the "Yellow Dining Room"?



I have seen this particular room identified before as "the study room" in the third reserve apartment. Of course, it could have also been a dining room during another period of history.

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on December 19, 2005, 01:30:55 PM
I was wondering if anyone might know a little about the history of the room that became the library of Nicholas II, off of the rotunda? What was this room before it was converted to the library?

Is there, perhaps, a painting of that room by Hau or Premazzi? I know that Ukhtomsky painted the small winter garden that later became Nicholas' study.

Thanks.

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on December 19, 2005, 09:03:26 PM
Quote

I have seen this particular room identified before as "the study room" in the third reserve apartment. Of course, it could have also been a dining room during another period of history.

--Gavin.



at one point was the a sort-of family dining room for Aleksandr II & his family.  

Angela Hawkins refers to bombing in her abstract
"Populism in Russia"
(http://www.iusb.edu/~journal/1999/Paper6.html):

Three (...) attempts on the life of the Czar have become famous. One was the attempt to blow up the Imperial train near Moscow on 19 November 1879. They succeeded in blowing up a train but not the train that the Czar was riding on. Another attempt was made on 5 February 1880, a bombing at the Winter Palace. Alexander escaped unharmed because he hadn’t yet reached the dining room when the bomb went off. This explosion killed eleven people and injured over fifty, mostly soldiers. The sixteen people, men and women, considered responsible for these two attempts, along with other ‘‘high crimes and offenses,’’ were court-martialed in St. Petersburg on 6 November 1880. Two of the 16 were purportedly hanged in the fortress of Saints Peter and Paul.

i believe it was after the repairs that the room took-on the look it has today.

btw, it may, very well, have been known as the Yellow Dining Room, but, honestly, i had never heard that before.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on January 26, 2006, 12:52:41 PM
This link includes several photos from inside the Winter Palace, apparently from a recent visit. If you scroll down a little, one photo is listed as a sitting room in the apartment of Nicholas II ... but with the two columns, I wonder if this could be the bedroom?


http://stacy.theatre-musical.com/russia/album1.html

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on January 26, 2006, 01:12:50 PM
Yes, that is the bedroom.  It is the only room in that part of the palace with two white pillars. :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on January 26, 2006, 03:28:30 PM
Regarding the "Yellow Dining Room": in The Winter Palace (the book of watercolors under the direction of Emmanuel Ducamp) this room is described as:

"The fourth room of the Third Reserve Apartment, formerly the Ship Hall, subsequently became a sort of antechamber.
Of considerable size, it was lit by three windows and furnished with pieces made in 1839, probably in the workshop of Andrei Tour."

There is also a watercolor by Eduard Petrovich Hau in 1872.

It is not identified as a dining room or having been furnished as one.  It may be that the room would be set up as a dining room periodically in the way that it was done at the Alexander Palace.  This room was directly opposite Alexander II's Antechamber (Reception Room).
BobG

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on February 01, 2006, 12:17:12 PM
On the plan of the private rooms, what is that in the unidentified room between I (Nicholas II's bathroom) and J (the dining room)?  It doesn't look like a staircase but I can't figure out what it is.  Am I right in assuming the room is some sort of service area?

Speaking of Nicholas's bathroom, did he have a dressing room or did he simply dress in the bedroom or bathroom?

What are those dots in the interior courtyard in the middle of the apartments? I"m guessing columns or a trellis.

Is there a plan of the top floor anywhere? I haven't been able to find one except the diagram on the Hermitage ste, which isn't particulary useful if you're interested in the palace before the revolution.  



Thanks!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on February 01, 2006, 02:16:45 PM
Quote
On the plan of the private rooms, what is that in the unidentified room between I (Nicholas II's bathroom) and J (the dining room)?  It doesn't look like a staircase but I can't figure out what it is.  Am I right in assuming the room is some sort of service area?

Speaking of Nicholas's bathroom, did he have a dressing room or did he simply dress in the bedroom or bathroom?

What are those dots in the interior courtyard in the middle of the apartments? I"m guessing columns or a trellis.

Is there a plan of the top floor anywhere? I haven't been able to find one except the diagram on the Hermitage ste, which isn't particulary useful if you're interested in the palace before the revolution.  


These are excellent questions, and I've wondered about them myself.

Does anyone know which room is in this photgraph?

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/12/2005/hm12_1_20_1_2_5.html

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on February 01, 2006, 02:29:57 PM
That is a "passing" room.  Basically it is the room which precedes Nicholas' study in the Winter Palace, after you have passed through the library.  I think it is the room with 2 windows just outside the study.  I think in Russian it is referred to as a "prikhodnaya".
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on February 01, 2006, 03:17:35 PM
Thank you, Pers, but we aren't talking about the same room.  The one that opens off Nicholas's study is H on the plans on this forum. The room I asked about is between I, Nicholas's bathroom, and J, the white dining room. It is directly behind B, the Empire drawing room.

It may also be a passing room, but the plan shows something in the middle of the room. It doesn't look like a staircase.  I think it may be some sort of built-in furniture  
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on February 01, 2006, 04:03:14 PM
Quote
Thank you, Pers, but we aren't talking about the same room.  The one that opens off Nicholas's study is H on the plans on this forum. The room I asked about is between I, Nicholas's bathroom, and J, the white dining room. It is directly behind B, the Empire drawing room.

It may also be a passing room, but the plan shows something in the middle of the room. It doesn't look like a staircase.  I think it may be some sort of built-in furniture  


I think Pers was answering my question, which I appreciate. I think, also, that the room marked "H" is the study itself, and Pers is refering to the room between "H" and the library, marked "L."

As for the "object" you are wondering about, I'm not sure what it is either. I have thought that it might be a narrow serivce staircase. Assuming that the room itself is some sort of pantry for the adjacent dining room, it would makes sense to have a stairway that could perhaps lead down to a larger kitchen. If you look closely, the "object" is not much narrower than the passageway just next to it, so it would seem wide enough to accomadate some narrow stairs.

Perhaps somebody who really knows will post :)

--Gavin.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on February 03, 2006, 01:07:04 PM
Quote

I think Pers was answering my question, which I appreciate. I think, also, that the room marked "H" is the study itself, and Pers is refering to the room between "H" and the library, marked "L."

As for the "object" you are wondering about, I'm not sure what it is either. I have thought that it might be a narrow serivce staircase. Assuming that the room itself is some sort of pantry for the adjacent dining room, it would makes sense to have a stairway that could perhaps lead down to a larger kitchen. If you look closely, the "object" is not much narrower than the passageway just next to it, so it would seem wide enough to accomadate some narrow stairs.

Perhaps somebody who really knows will post :)

--Gavin.


you're correct.....it's a staircase.   and i believe the little room behind it may be a sort of buffet or even a pantry/butler's pantry (used for serving the White Dining Room).     the staircase may have been used as a service-stair, or it may even have been a private stair for N II.



Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on February 06, 2006, 11:06:29 AM
Quote


you're correct.....it's a staircase.   and i believe the little room behind it may be a sort of buffet or even a pantry/butler's pantry (used for serving the White Dining Room).     the staircase may have been used as a service-stair, or it may even have been a private stair for N II.



Question No. 1: Is this cross-section really of that staircase in the Winter Palace? And if so, do you have other cross-sections of the Winter Palace that you might share?

Question No. 2: Am I correct that this corner of the palace (what were the private rooms of Nicholas II) included THREE staircases? In addition to the staircase that we've been discussing in the buffet/pantry, there appears to be a staircase directly behind the bedroom and another, small staircase just below it, between the larger staircase and the bathroom. Am I right? I would assume that the larger staircase was for the imperial family to use, while the smaller staircase was for the servants.

Question No. 3: I have read some descriptions of the private rooms that mention a lift/elevator and yet I cannot see any indication of one in the floor plans. Was there one?  

I have many more questions about the Winter Palace, but I won't bombard you with them all at once :)

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on February 06, 2006, 12:06:42 PM
Gavin, this plan is not exactly correct according to the alterations made by Nicholas and Alexandra.  You'll see it shows two exits from the bedroom towards the back.  I can only see one on the photos of the room during that time.  Further there is an exit from the Silver Drawing room (C) into the passage, which does not appear on the plan.  Maybe someone out there has the plan as the rooms were altered for the usage by Nicholas and Alexandra.  It will be very interesting to see! ::)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Remio on February 09, 2006, 01:42:13 PM
hello!!
Concerning the winter palace under the reign of Nicholas I, I would like to have more informations about the nursery of Nicholas I's daughters, and in particular of the doll's house. And where did this room was located? :)

(the picture is on the Hermitage website). Thank you!!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on February 09, 2006, 01:59:33 PM
Since their daughters rooms were right below theirs in the Winter Palace, it makes a lot of sense that N&A would have a stairway for their use (and the elevator, also).  I think it is very difficult to get floorplans for an exact period in time, so we're never sure when changes took place and how they are reflected on plans.
BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on February 10, 2006, 02:58:40 PM
The Hermitage has a book with the original drawings for the decoration of the rooms, with comments written in the side by Grand Duchess Elizabeth, when the suite was prepared for Nicholas and Alexandra, so the plans most probably exist as well!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on February 13, 2006, 09:01:06 AM
First, thank you, everyone who has posted plans of the Winter Palace.

Does anyone have a scale for the plans on this site? If not, does anyone know the measurements for any of the rooms in the private apartments, which could be used to figure out a scale for the plans?

Also, does the plan of the ground floor use the same scale as the second floor (American) or first floor (British)?

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on February 13, 2006, 11:26:55 AM
The Neva facade is said to be 200 meters long, while the Admiralty facade is 160 meters. This might be enough for you to create an approximate scale.

For example, using a print out of the floor plan from this thread -- and assuming that the Neva facade is 200 meters -- I measured about 5 meters from the outer wall to the two columns in the bedroom.

Hopefully, somebody will have a more precise way of telling the size of these rooms :)

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on March 29, 2006, 10:26:27 PM
As for the ballrooms: Main ballroom was the biggest room of the Palace - Nickolay hall.
The biggest balls, such a New Year Ball took place there.
The biggest balls were for 5000 guests.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on April 25, 2006, 03:21:10 PM
Can someone tell me what room is depicted in this remarkable painting from the Hermitage site?

"Breakfast of Alexander II and Wilhelm I in the Winter Palace"

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/04/2005/hm4_1_116_1.html

Thanks.

--Gavin.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on April 26, 2006, 01:07:29 AM
I suppose that this is the private room of the Alexandra Feodorovna (and Marina Alexandrovna) on the 3rd floor .
(upper floor of the Gorden Room).
Now in those room is located the collection of Turkish ceramics , which is usually is closed.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 26, 2006, 07:36:17 PM
Is this painting of the small winter garden of Alexandra Feodorovna part of the suite that was converted for Nicholas II and Alexandra which had the balcony attached? Can anyone identify if by room number?

http://hermitagemuseum.org/html_Ru/05/hm5_7_8_2_8.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: G.Michael on December 05, 2006, 02:33:17 PM
I'm not certain, but I believe it is the room marked No. 179 in the diagram posted earlier in this thread.



Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Aleksasha on December 06, 2006, 04:23:48 AM
Gavin O.,

The Breakfast of Alexander II and Wilhelm I is in the former "corner study" of the Empress Alexandra Feodorovna ( Nikolai I wife), number 185 on the coulured plan ( and D on the plan at the time of Nicholas II).

Joanna,

The little winter garden of the Empress Alexandra Feodorovna ( Nicholas I wife) in marked on the coloured plan as 182. It is the same space with the Empress's "boudoir" and connected with the "large winter garden" ( 181 on the plan).

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on December 23, 2006, 03:38:12 PM
I need to make a change to the floor plans of Nicholas and Alexandra's rooms in the Winter Palace. I have been puzzling over some discrepancies for some time and have finally figured it out.

The map Greg King provided has an error. Alexandra, Nicholas II's wife, did not have both a Dressing Room (King's F/ Hermitage 183) and a Boudoir (King's G/ Hermitage 183). They are, in fact, one and the same. Greg King evidently realized this error some time between when he posted this map and when he published The Court of the Last Tsar because the floor plans in this book account for the error.

I think part of the confusion stems from the fact that both sets of Nicholas and Alexandras shared many of the same rooms. Alexandra (Nicholas I's wife) did have both a Dressing Room (King's F/ Hermitage 183) and a Boudoir (King's G/ Hermitage 182.) During the second N&A's reign, Alexandra's Dressing Room was Alix's Dressing Room/Boudoir. And Alexandra's Boudoir was a section of Nicholas II's Study.

Since a picture is said to be worth a thousand words, here is a new map to reflect the change. It accounts for both the Hermitage number map and Greg King's alphabetic map.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WP_Map.jpg)

Key (In case the image is image is too small to see! If you want a higher resolution copy, PM me.)

B=187=Alix's Empire Drawing Room
C=187=Alix's Silver Drawing Room
D=185=Alix's Sitting Room
E=184=N&A's Bedroom
F=183=Alix's Boudoir
H=180-182=Nicholas's Study
I=178=Nicholas's Gothic Library
O=177=Nicholas's Billiard's Room
P=175&176?= Nicholas's Reception Room

Original Hermitage Map:
(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WinterPalaceMap.jpg)


Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on December 23, 2006, 03:56:48 PM
Now that the map business is taken care of...

Pictures of Alix's Boudoir, King's F/ Hermitage 183:

1. Alix's Boudoir 1917

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AlixBoudoir1917_1.jpg)


2. Alix's Boudoir 1917, after the storming of the Palace

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AlixBoudoir1917_2.jpg)


3. Alix's Boudoir c. 1910

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AlixBoudoir.jpg)


4. Alix's Boudoir 2004
Sorry for the fuzzy quality. Camera "died" during our trip :(

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AlixBoudoir2004.jpg)


5. Ceiling fragment from Alix's Boudoir 2004

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AlixBoudoir2004_ceiling.jpg)

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Eddie_uk on December 23, 2006, 04:38:26 PM
Wonderful photos, thank you Amy! It's sad to see the state of the IF rooms (there home!!!) after they were stormed, but very interesting. Are there many photos in existance showing it in disaray?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on December 23, 2006, 05:03:19 PM
I'm sure there are more, but I only have two photos from the Winter Palace after the storming.

Caption:
Soldiers in the Ministerial Reception Room of Nicholas II after the storming of the Winter Palace, 1917.

Corresponds to King's P/ Hermitage 175 (maybe also 176). Confussing because the space has changed. During NII's time there were 2 rooms occupying the space that now has 3!

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/NickReception1917Storm.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on December 23, 2006, 05:06:30 PM
Floor plans from Nicholas I and Alexandra's era.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/Map_C1870.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on December 23, 2006, 05:32:40 PM
Last photos for today of the space that was Alix's Boudoir. (King's F/Hermitage 183)

Below are scans of water colors, from two different dates, of Alexandra's, Nicholas I's, Dressing Room.

1. Alexandra Feodorovna's Dressing Room, 1871.

Caption:
Alexandra Feodorovna's dressing room lay next door to the bedchamber. The walls, originally covered with pink fabric, were hung with blue brocatelle in the late 1850s. The rosewood furniture, commissioned from Peter Gambs in 1839, was also covered in blue to harmonize with the smalt or blue glass of the dressing table top. The mantelpiece ornaments are of St. Petersburg manufacture of the 1830s.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AFDressing183F.jpg)


2.  Alexandra Feodorovna's Dressing Room, no date.

Caption:
This view of the dressing room shows different curtains, carpet and furnishing fabric. This was the room in which the Empress dressed, as can be seen from the cloths depicted to the left of the painting.
Through the large glazed door to the right can be glimpsed the boudoir, and beyond it the Small Winter Garden.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AFDressing183F_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on December 23, 2006, 05:51:16 PM
The little winter garden of the Empress Alexandra Feodorovna ( Nicholas I wife) in marked on the coloured plan as 182. It is the same space with the Empress's "boudoir" and connected with the "large winter garden" ( 181 on the plan).

This is the response that prompted me to rehaul the map. I am so sorry for the original error.  :(

Joanna- The picture in question, from Nicholas I and Alexandra Feodorovna's era, is from room 181, looking towards room 185. Room 182, during the first Nicholas and Alexandra was Alexandra's Boudoir, but during Nicholas II's era, room 182 was an extension of his study, not Alix's Boudoir. During the fiirst N&A, rooms 180 and (possibly) 181 were Alexandra Feodorovna's Small Winter Garden. I'm still trying to work figure it out. I have more photos from each era which should illustrate how the space was used, but I won't have time to post them until January.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on December 27, 2006, 11:10:15 AM
Thank you to all of you.  This thread really remains very interesting.  I am wondering whether Alix's dressingroom might not have been through the door in the back of the boudoir along with her bathroom.  The boudoir would be a "passing room" (prikhodnaya komnata) for Nicholas if he went from the bedroom direct to his study.  In the Alexander Palace for instance he would go the way of the Mauve boudoir to get to his rooms I would imagine, and not Alix's dressing room. 

Still no one with the plans of the rooms as they existed in approx. 1900? :(
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 17, 2007, 12:11:32 PM
Just so you all know- I deleted photo number 5 from the series of Alix's boudoir because I just realized that this ceiling fragment is NOT from room 183. I think, but still need to recheck my cyrptic notes from my trip that that ceiling fragment is from the Empire or Silver Drawing Room. Oh how I wish I had taken better notes (and had a better camera when I was there!)

On the hand, the below photo IS od the ceiling in Alix's Boudoir in 2004:

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/AlixBoudoir2004_ceiling2.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 17, 2007, 07:22:08 PM
I'm slowing working way through my photos. I just completed gathering/altering/resizing the photos for Alix's Sitting Room (Exhibit Room # 185/ King's map D).

I know many of you have seen most, if not all the historic photos from this room, but since the previous pictures in this thread no longer exist and because I feel compelled to have them all in one place ...

1. Alix's Sitting Room, 1917

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/1917AlixSittingRoom1.jpg)


2. Alix's Sitting Room, 1917

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/1917AlixSittingRoom3_edit.jpg)

3. Alix's Sitting Room, c. 1900

This photo has often been described as belonging to the Lower Palace in the Alexandria Park, but after closer examination I believe it is, in fact, Alix's Sitting Room in the Winter Palace. The identical wallpaper, design on the door, as well as the similarity in the placement and shape of the furniture (lacy basinet(?), pattern of the furniture and the shape of the legs) all led me to this conclusion. The only quirky detail is the carpet, BUT the following photo shows the corner of this room with carpet.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/1917AlixSittingRoom4_edit.jpg)

4. Alix's Sitting Room, c. 1900

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/1917AlixSittingRoom2_edit.jpg)

Again, sorry about the quality from my 2004 pictures. I wish I has taken a million more pictures of each room, but I did not. Maybe someday someone will provide us with better pictures of these rooms. Until then ...

5. Alix's Sitting Room, 2004

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/2004AlixSittingRoom1.jpg)

6. Alix's Sitting Room, 2004

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/2004AlixSittingRoom2.jpg)

7. Alix's Sitting Room, 2004

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/2004AlixSittingRoom3.jpg)







Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Aleksasha on January 18, 2007, 08:36:40 AM
Yes Amy, you're right: the photo was taken in Alix's sitting room  :) The photos are woderful. Thank you for posted them!!! We all are expecting for others: silver room etc.  :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 18, 2007, 11:43:22 AM
Keep them coming Amy dear! They are fascinating! Don't the rooms look awful now?? Not at all cosey and horribily clinical. I love the way the rooms used to look!! :)

I wonder what happened to the paintings of Alixs' parents...
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 18, 2007, 12:45:55 PM
Thanks Eddieboy and Aleksasha! I will be adding many more photos, it just takes time to organize it all.

I agree, Eddieboy, the rooms do look "horribly clinical." But, as will be come evident, not all the rooms were completely gutted. In some cases, like the Empire and Silver Drawing Rooms, the ceilings were left intact.

Pers: I meant to reply earlier. I think your observation about Nicholas passing through Alix's Boudoir in both the Winter Palace and the Alexander Palace is really interesting. I has previously mapped out in my head Nicholas's path from their bedroom to his quarters in the Alexander Palace, but I hadn't yet thought this through for the Winter Palace. Thank you!



Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 18, 2007, 01:20:11 PM
I do understand Amy!  Thank you, look forward to seeing more when you are able :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 18, 2007, 01:50:15 PM
I'm sure there are more, but I only have two photos from the Winter Palace after the storming.

Caption:
Soldiers in the Ministerial Reception Room of Nicholas II after the storming of the Winter Palace, 1917.

Corresponds to King's P/ Hermitage 175 (maybe also 176). Confussing because the space has changed. During NII's time there were 2 rooms occupying the space that now has 3!

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/NickReception1917Storm.jpg)


To me, this is not the Tsar's reception room, this room is part of the old app. of Maria Alexandrovna. I think it is called Marble hall, it is along the main facade of the palace.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 18, 2007, 01:53:09 PM
Thanks so much for all your photos and for sharing them with us! :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 18, 2007, 02:01:26 PM
look at this page, to convince yoursef.

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm88_0_1_54.html (http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm88_0_1_54.html)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 18, 2007, 07:31:12 PM
Good call, Gleb. I think you are correct!

The architectural details match, e.g. the door and the stucco(?) reliefs. As we are all probably aware, publication mistakes do occur and I think this is what happened. The only historic photo (with the exception of the misidentified one) I have seen of NII's Reception Room is in the huge exhibition catalog Nicholas & Alexandra - The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Russia. I probably would have figured out that the architectural details in these two photos don't match once I began investigating that room, but I hadn't gotten there yet! Thanks for saving me the headache! I would have puzzled about it for some time.

The book I scanned it from Nicholas Alexandra - The Last Tsar and Tsarina (Lund Humphries in Association with the Hermitage Amsterdam) has the following citation on the page this photo appears (pg. 60):

CAT. NR. 80
SOLDIERS IN THE MINISTERIAL RECEPTION ROOM
OF NICHOLAS II AFTER THE STORMING OF
THE WINTER PALACE, 1917
Karl Karlovich Kubesch
(late 19th/early 20th century)
photo

Below is the corresponding citation in the Index of Objects:

          80
Karl Karlovich Kubesch (late 19th/early 20th century)
SOLDIERS IN THE MINISTERIAL RECEPTION ROOM
OF NICHOLAS II AFTER THE STORMING OF
THE WINTER PALACE, 1917
Photo
16.8 x 22.4 cm/ Pencil inscription on reverse: 'Winter Palace Ministerial
Reception Room of N II F-572' / Provenance: 1941, State Museum of
Ethnography of the Peoples of the USSR/ Inv. no. ERFt-21230 / T.P.

BUT, and here's the interesting part, just below this citation is the following one for object no. 82 (which is not printed in this book):

          82
Karl Karlovich Kubesch (late 19th/early 20th century)
THE WHITE HALL. ALEXANDER KERENSKI'S GUARDS, 1917
Page from the "Winter Palace in 1917" album
Silver bromide print
17 x 23 cm/ Provenance: 1981, Archive of the State Hermitage Museum/
Inv. no. ORDF/ V.M.



Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 18, 2007, 08:28:01 PM
Below are some photos that illustrate Gleb's keen observation. The colored photos are screen shots from the hermitage website. The room map is from c. 1870. The door in question was not originally marked on this map. I added it to reflect how this room POSSIBLY looked in 1917. My guess is that this door either did not exist when the c. 1870 palace floor map was created or it was left out, but I could be wrong. Another real possibility is that the 1917 photo has been horizontally flipped.

1. White Hall, c. 2000
The area in question is inside the black box.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WhiteHall1.jpg)


2. White Hall, c. 2000
The reason I added this photo from the opposite side of the room is because it is difficult to see the space where the door MIGHT have existed in 1917. Because of the angle of the Hotmedia image, it is easier to see the blocked-off space on the "left" side of the room.  I also added it because the 1917 to show the location in the event that it is flipped. Oy! My head!

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WhiteHall2.jpg)

3. White Hall Room Map, c. 1870
The arrow shows the area of the room where the photo was taken if the photo wasn't flipped. The arrow with the question mark would be the correct location if it were flipped.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WhiteHallMap.jpg)

4. 1917 photo horizontally flipped.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/NickReception1917_edit_horizontalflip.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 19, 2007, 04:31:50 AM
Good call, Gleb. I think you are correct!

 I probably would have figured out that the architectural details in these two photos don't match once I began investigating that room, but I hadn't gotten there yet! Thanks for saving me the headache! I would have puzzled about it for some time.



Happy to have been useful  :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 19, 2007, 04:33:06 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint1.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 19, 2007, 04:36:21 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint2.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 19, 2007, 04:39:33 AM
Does anyone know where that hidden door leads to? To the Tsar's dressing room?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 19, 2007, 04:40:53 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint3.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 19, 2007, 04:45:38 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint4.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 19, 2007, 04:49:33 AM
In my book this photo is labelled "The desk of the Empress in the Winter Palace".

Does anyone know where it was, I mean which room?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 19, 2007, 11:28:22 AM
Does anyone know where that hidden door leads to? To the Tsar's dressing room?

Interesting photo! Thanks for posting it. I never knew there was a door there. It's not marked on any of the floor plans I've seen.

In answer to your question, you are correct - the space behind Alix's Silver Drawing Room is NII's Dressing Room/ Bathroom. 

As for where Alix's desk resided, I haven't a clue! Does anybody else know?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on January 22, 2007, 09:07:08 PM
I have identified the desk as in Alexandra's boudoir #182. From a larger photograph there is behind the painting a curtain. The arch that surrounds it above corresponds to the archway leading to #181.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 23, 2007, 12:42:44 PM
I know which photo you are talking about, Joanna, and I understand why you think it is from room #182 - but with all due respect, I disagree.

I just looked closer at this larger photo and think it is from #185, Alix's Sitting Room/ Corner Study.  Some of the details that led me to this conclusion include the matching wallpaper and the floor design. I don't think the archway in the background is one the archways between rooms 182 & 183, but is instead a window frame on the Neva River side of the room.

I wish could explain this better right now, but I need to leave for a few hours. Perhaps later today I will be able to post the visuals I'm working on that illustrate what I'm trying to say! ;D
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on January 23, 2007, 09:00:09 PM
Dear Amy,

First I must say my many many thanks for all the work you have done and are doing in identifying the rooms through plans and photographs. It is exciting to follow this thread.

And please I am very open to any information on interpreting the minutae that will clarify our puzzlements.

In the Nicholas & Alexandra Exhibition book, the photograph of the desk circa today #275 has a caption that refers to the photograph #105. I have various photographs of Alexandra's Sitting Room/Corner Study that creates a panorama of the room and yet I have not been able to identify the desk. The one part in my collection that is missing is the window area where the desk may have been located. As the room c1900s had a brightness scheme, I am hesitant to believe that Alexandra would have created a dark window treatment and the height of the arch does not match the frames as I remember when walking through there.

I should have said I have tentatively identified it as #182 for a number of reasons - the arch corresponds, the darkness of this corner triggers a memory of a photo of a long view that I am desperate trying to recall where I found it many years ago, this room is adjacent to Nicholas' private study which c1894 would have created their early romantic ambiance of togetherness that they strove for within their long separations in their daily schedules. This may be farfetched reasoning. Today #182 is painted but I am wondering if possibly #182 had the same wallpaper as #185. Again supposition - either Alexandra may have loved this wallpaper or there was a supply of it similar to the red paint that was used continuously on the exteriors of the palaces due to thriftness.

Joanna



Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 24, 2007, 11:56:54 AM
I'm so glad you understood I meant no offence. In fact, I wouldn't have investigated the desk photo in closer detail (at this time) unless you had posted your tentative identification. When I first read it I paused for quite awhile and considered the possibility of that which you wrote in your above post - that it "would have created their early romantic ambiance of togetherness that they strove for within their long separations in their daily schedules" - but after reexamining at the photos I have of rooms #182 and #185, past and present, I also tentatively concluded that room #185's features are more consistent.

And just so you know, and anyone else who wishes to participate, I am also very open to suggestions. It's a big puzzle and any information adds to my, and hopefully to your, understanding of the private rooms of NII and Alexandra in the Winter Palace.

btw- I'm still working on gathering the various visuals for the desk ID. They are organized on my hard drive now but I haven't had a chance to upload them.


Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 25, 2007, 11:17:23 AM
Yeah! I finally found the time to upload the relevant photos.

1. Photo of Alix's desk in the Winter Palace, 1917

Partial reference in the Nicholas & Alexandra Exhibition book:
116. Desk from Alexandra Feodorovna's Study*, 1917.
Inscription in pencil on the reverse ... text in cyrilic ... [Study of
Alexandra Feodorovna, Winter Palace]

* Room 185 is usually identified as Alix's Corner Drawing Room OR as Alix's Study.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/DeskID_bw.jpg)


2. Colorized version of photo 1.
(Rough coloring to highlight some of the details in photo 1)

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/DeskID_Colored.jpg)


3. Fragment of wallpaper from photo 1

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/DeskID_WallpaperFrag.jpg)


4. Reference photo from Alix's Study, c. 1900 or 1917
Added to show the wallpaper and floor design.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/1917AlixSittingRoom1.jpg)


5. Reference watercolor from AF's Study, 1858.
Added to show the similarity in the window frame.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WindowFrame.jpg)


5. Reference photo from room 182, 2004

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/Room182.jpg)


6. Room plan of room 185 illustrating, in my estimation, the location of said desk.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WPplan185.jpg)

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 25, 2007, 12:16:26 PM
Amy,

I think you're right :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 25, 2007, 12:20:11 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint4a.jpg)

One of Nicky's rooms near his study. I don't know which room it is exactly. Maybe you can help me.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on January 25, 2007, 05:29:47 PM
May I refer you to Amy's post 114:  Photograph No.5 - on the right pane of the right hand window, now covered by the Austrian drape, is the legend inscribed by the Empress - 'Watching the Hussars (? date) Alix'.   From the present level of the floor, the writing appears to be much higher than one would expect, but I was told by the then curator that a raised platform ran around the exterior perimter of the room, lifting the floor to almost the level of the window ledge.   (In the early 90s, I had the good fortune to be given a personal tour of these rooms.   They were, at that time, not open to the public).

tsaria
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 25, 2007, 07:30:30 PM
What a fabulous photo, Gleb! I haven't seen this one before. In answer to your question, I think it is from NII's Reception Room. I have a photo of this room from a different angle and the wallpaper and chair shape are identical. The fireplace placement is also consistent with the red floor plan I posted some pages back. Thank you! I just picked up a few books from the library on the Hermitage/Winter Palace and am swimming in details. It will take awhile to sort it all out, but I will keep plugging along.

Tsaria - Thank you for that detail. Joanna posted a picture of this inscription that she took during her trip a few years ago , but since I wasn't really studying this topic in detail when I first saw it, the location of the inscription didn't solidify. Now it will.  ;D How wonderful that you had access when the general public did not! You mentioned that the platform section in the corner was already gone, but I'm really curious to know if the rest of the room had already been gutted -- e.g. fireplace* and ceiling -- to function as an exhibition room like it is now?

*Since I failed to take a full picture of the wall that had the fireplace when I was there, and since it's been almost three years, I can't remember if it was there or not! Does anybody who has visited recently know?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on January 26, 2007, 07:00:07 AM
Yes it already had been stripped, Amy.   At the time it was empty and I am quite certain there was no fireplace.   Whether they were in the process of changing an exhibition - this was around the time of 'Glasnost', I do not know.

Re Gleb's photograph, I agree with Amy, it is a photograph of  Nicholas' Reception Room.   This room was more or less designed around the Imperial equivalent of holiday souvenirs - collected during Nicholas', near mis,-adventure in the Far East.

tsaria
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 26, 2007, 11:50:23 AM
I have a photo of this room from a different angle and the wallpaper and chair shape are identical. The fireplace placement is also consistent with the red floor plan I posted some pages back. Thank you! I just picked up a few books from the library on the Hermitage/Winter Palace and am swimming in details.



Amy,

could you please show it to me? Which books are you reading can you tell us the titles :)

Thanks for all what you're doing.

Bye
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 26, 2007, 01:18:34 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint5.jpg)

another room near the gothic library.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 26, 2007, 04:03:01 PM
Thank you Gleb. It looks as though it has been ransacked :(
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 26, 2007, 04:08:46 PM
Had not these rooms been requistioned by the provisional government. N&A had not used them for years as I recall.  The "mob" was probably looking for some sort of loot.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on January 26, 2007, 04:36:26 PM
The entire Winter Palace was requisitioned by the Provisional Government.

tsaria
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on January 26, 2007, 04:37:10 PM
could you please show it to me? Which books are you reading can you tell us the titles :)

Here is the list of books I picked up at the library:

1. Doroshinskaya, Y. and V. Kruchina-Bogdanov. Leningrad and Its Environs: A Guide. Moscow: Progress Publishers, 1979.

2. Voronikhina, L. The Hermitage: Guide-Book. Leningrad: Sovietsky Khudozhnik, 1968.

3. Sokolova, T. The Hermitage Museum: Buildings and Halls. Leningrad: Aurora Art Publishers, 1973.

4. Kennett, Audrey and Victor Kennett. The Palaces of Leningrad. New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1973.  

Books 1&2 are English translation editions. Book 3 is primarily in Russian, but a truncated version of the introduction is in English and the photos are double captioned in Russian/English.

As far the others, I'll post them later. I know I've been lazy about documenting and need to fix this!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on January 27, 2007, 01:01:24 PM
Thanks a lot, Amy! :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 01, 2007, 10:08:16 AM
Interesting photo, Gleb, but I can't place it.  It looks like there are three doors on three separate walls with the light source coming through a window on the forth wall. It doesn't make any sense, at least according the available floor plans. It sort of looks like it could be from the foyer area (Room P- NII Reception) on King's map, but there are no windows in this space. I'm stumped!


Book list for photos I've posted:

Tarasova, Nina, Galina Komelova, and Galina Printseva. Nicholas and Alexandra - The Last Tsar and Tsarina. London: Lund Humphries, 2005.

Vilinbakhov, George Sergei, et al. Nicholas and Alexandra - The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Russia. New York: Harry N. Abrams, 1998.

Lyons, Marvin. Nicholas II - The Last Tsar. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1974.

Shelaev, Iu., et al. Stranitsy Zhizni. Sankt-Peterburg: Liki Rosii, 1998. (Eng. Pages of Life)

Piotrovsky, Mikail Borishovich, et al. The Winter Palace - St. Petersburg. Paris: Alain de Gourcuff, 1997.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 01, 2007, 11:22:56 AM
I think I *might* have figured it out. I just re-looked at King's map and the yellow highlighted room makes sense. It is just next to NII's Library and the three doors and window fit the photo. Could be. Could be not.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/MapFrag_NII.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on February 01, 2007, 06:48:01 PM
I do not really understand why historically the rooms in the palace that has never been invaded by gerlmans troops or cope with a fire have so muched changed in the time of 90 years...

Furthermore,why the restoration of those imperial rooms to their primitiv shape is not considered as a major work in the restoration process all along the museum(it could be part of great hermitage project...)

I 'm perhaps too much idealistic but could someone tell me more ...
Thanks in advance,
Vassili
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 02, 2007, 12:55:27 PM
Vassili, Are you specifically referring to the former rooms of NII & Alix / Alexandra Feodorovna, NI's wife? Or is this a larger question?

I'm afraid I know very little about the current political climate in Russia, and nothing about the great hermitage project, but my simplistic guess is that it is not a priority. I assume, especially after visiting the Hermitage in 2004 and witnessing the sorry state of some of the artwork and the conditions in which they are displayed (e.g. direct sunlight on oil paintings), that modernizing their standards to preserve their existing collection is vastly more important than recreating the private quarters of formers Emperors and Empresses. But, this is just a guess. As much as I would like to see these rooms brought back to their former glory, I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, if ever.

As for why some of the former apartments have changed so much ... wow ... this is such a loaded question! The most I can "say" right now is to point to you to a couple of links.

The first, from the Hermitage site, mentions when this happened:

In time the state rooms of the former imperial residence came to be used for exhibitions, while the living rooms and service premises were converted into display rooms, losing their decorations. In 1926, for example, the "Historical Rooms of Alexander II and Nicholas II" were closed, dismantled and given over to exhibition use.
(see: http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/05/hm5_7_9_3.html (http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/05/hm5_7_9_3.html) )

The second, from the Open Russian Electronic Library, has posted the 1928 book Hermitage Palace (1764-1927 on their site. I don't know Russian (just beginning to learn it), but through a translation site I was able to understand some of what is in it, albeit in a very sideways manner!

The opening page is here:
http://orel.rsl.ru/nettext/russian/suslov/winter_palace/1.htm (http://orel.rsl.ru/nettext/russian/suslov/winter_palace/1.htm)

And the page which references 1894-1927 is here:
http://orel.rsl.ru/nettext/russian/suslov/winter_palace/3.htm (http://orel.rsl.ru/nettext/russian/suslov/winter_palace/3.htm)

Maybe you'll find something relevant in this online book. A Russian girlfriend on mine is coming over for dinner on Saturday, and if I'm lucky, maybe she'll translate portions for me!  ;D



Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 03, 2007, 09:39:57 AM
I came to edit my post, but realized I no longer can.

The 1928 Suslov book's title is Winter Palace (1754-1927), not the title I wrote above. Apologies. I had Hermitage on the brain, so I saw what I wanted to see.  :D
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 03, 2007, 10:13:04 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint6.jpg)

Do you know where this room  is/was?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on February 03, 2007, 10:44:55 AM
Amy,

Thanks a lot ...I'm currently reading a book on Solovki and after reading your post  I become  desperate on viewing all treasures that have been lost in Russia during sovietic's power...
V.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 03, 2007, 10:47:34 AM
Gleb: It's room #187 - Alix's Empire Drawing Room.

btw- I just received the book* from which this photo came yesterday! So need to learn Russian.

Translated English title:
Nesin, Vadim. The Imperial Winter Palace During the Reign of the Last Emperor (1894-1917). Saint Petersburg: Letny Sad, 1999.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 03, 2007, 11:01:11 AM
Thank you Amy! You are amazing!!! :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 03, 2007, 11:44:27 AM


btw- I just received the book* from which this photo came yesterday! So need to learn Russian.



When you can tranlsate the book, let me know. I don't understand anything ;)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 03, 2007, 11:47:50 AM
Gleb: It's room #187 - Alix's Empire Drawing Room.


I know it should be that room, but to me it is not possible. room 187 has a rectangular shape. While the room in the photo is a square. Any idea?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 03, 2007, 11:49:27 AM
Floor plans from Nicholas I and Alexandra's era.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/Map_C1870.jpg)


The rear wall of room 187 is not long enough.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 03, 2007, 11:53:38 AM
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/descrPage.mac/descrPage?selLang=English&indexClass=PICTURE_EN&PID=OR-26513&numView=1&ID_NUM=52&thumbFile=%2Ftmplobs%2FEAT2YC3_23D_40O5ZVDJ6.jpg&embViewVer=last&comeFrom=quick&sorting=no&thumbId=6&numResults=110&tmCond=hau&searchIndex=TAGFILEN&author=Hau%2C%26%2332%3BEdward%26%2332%3BPetrovich (http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/descrPage.mac/descrPage?selLang=English&indexClass=PICTURE_EN&PID=OR-26513&numView=1&ID_NUM=52&thumbFile=%2Ftmplobs%2FEAT2YC3_23D_40O5ZVDJ6.jpg&embViewVer=last&comeFrom=quick&sorting=no&thumbId=6&numResults=110&tmCond=hau&searchIndex=TAGFILEN&author=Hau%2C%26%2332%3BEdward%26%2332%3BPetrovich)

This is room 187 as it was in the second half of 19th century.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: James1941 on February 03, 2007, 12:02:34 PM
Picture 103 on page 97 of Nichholas and Alexandra: The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Russia  identifies this room as the Empire (White) Drawing Room, in Empress Alexandra's suite of rooms.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 03, 2007, 02:00:09 PM
While the room in the photo is a square. Any idea?

It is an odd picture to be sure. Would it help to know it is a split photo? That's why the room looks like a square rather than a rectangle. The RIGHT side corresponds to the left wall (east) and the LEFT side is the view of the southern wall, i.e. this wall is shared with the service room behind it. The perspective is odd, but like James1941 pointed out, the details are an exact match for room#187. When I get a chance, I'll split the photo of this room from the Nicholas and Alexandra exhibition catalog and post it. I think once you see this, you’ll understand.

eta: The photo in the exhibition catalog and the one you post are also taken from slightly different angles, which may also account for ithe "weirdness" factor.   :)

Please note I also changed the left and right above. Sorry! I didn't look at it in close enough detail before I posted.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 03, 2007, 04:28:07 PM
Gleb, Now that I've had a chance to play around with the different photos in photoshop, I'm thoroughly confused! I'm still fairly certain that left side photo is the southern wall, BUT I can't figure out whether the right side picture is the eastern or the western wall. The only other photo I have seen from this room, other than the ones you posted, is in the N&A exhibition catalog, which presumably shows the eastern and southern walls. But, the paintings in the two photos don't match. This doesn't necessarily mean that therefore they have to be different walls. It just means I'm going to have to think about this for awhile. :)

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: James1941 on February 03, 2007, 05:43:32 PM
But, Amy, the paintings do match. If you look closely at the picture from the catalog and the picture from the book Imperial Winter Palace, you will see the painting on the back wall shows a tree to the left (looking at it) with people around it, some standing and one is a lady on horseback. In front of the painting is a large urn or bowl with another bowl or vase sitting in it. The picture in the catalog shows a sofa along the other wall behind the table and chairs. The picture in the Imperial Winter palace shows a comode or cabinet along the wall with chairs on the side. Obviously they are taken from two different vantage points, but the same room.
I would say the catalog picture is taken towards the east-south wall, while the one in the Imperial Winter Palace is taken towards the west wall.
The catalog shot shows no rug while the one in the Imperial Winter Palace shows a carpet.
Yet, it almost certain that this is the Empire or White Drawing Room.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 03, 2007, 06:50:12 PM
Thanks for your insightful post, James. :) If you hadn’t already guessed, my head is truly spinning today.

After reading your post, I think I must not have made myself clear about which painting didn't match. I fully agree that the painting on the southern wall is identical. My problem began when I started looking closer at the right hand side photo in the picture Gleb posted in super zoom mode in photoshop. Initially, I thought this wall matched the eastern wall pictured in the N&A exhibition catalog, but when I realized the paintings didn’t match a big question mark was raised, which caste doubt, which caused me to call into question all sorts of other things ... and then my brain exploded ... :D ...Who knew IDing photos could be so hazardous! 

Chances are the right hand side photo is of the western wall. I hate to have to qualify this, but until I see a picture that undeniably shows the western wall, there will be a teeny-tiny, infinitesimally small kernel of doubt in my mind. 




Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on February 04, 2007, 05:30:04 AM
Here's another view of the Empire Salon.  I think this is pretty clearly the room in question.  It is definitely room 187.  I think it is hard to tell the shape of these rooms from the photos. 

Hope this view helps.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/Empire-Salon.jpg)

BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 04, 2007, 06:56:14 AM
I want to say two things:

First. I think we are all quite sure that the photo I posted yesterday shows the south wall and the east one.
While the photo posted by BobG (thanks a lot, btw) shows the west wall and AGAIN the south wall (the picture is the same).

These three walls, to my opinion, seem to be, more or less, the same length. BUT in the plan we have they're different. This is the thing I don't understand.
Probably I am wrong.

If only we could see the window.


Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 04, 2007, 07:06:50 AM
Secondly, The ceiling is different in the watercolour. This is strange becouse in the other rooms it was repainted, but not changed, I mean in the structure.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: James1941 on February 04, 2007, 10:41:06 AM
Actually the room is not square but elongated. Along the wall seen in the picture from BobG you see the sofia, then a chair, then a table, then another chair. Then there would be a doorway and then the north wall with the windows looking out over the Neva. If you look at the painting it is squarely in the center, but then add the door and this elongates the room.
These rooms were redecorated for Nicholas and Alexandra, and the empress called on her sister Ella to help. The rather baroque decorations were probably altered during this phase. They would have been rather out of sync with an "empire" style of decor.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 04, 2007, 11:39:53 AM
Thanks, James! I was just about to explain the rooms were altered just prior to Alix and NII moving in, but now it is not necessary.

Below are two photos I took of the ceilings in room # 187 in 2004.


(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/2004AlixEmpire1.jpg)


(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/2004AlixEmpire2.jpg)

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 05, 2007, 02:49:06 AM
THANKS SO MUCH, Amy, for these photos. Now everything is clear :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on February 05, 2007, 06:18:54 AM
In terms of the shape of the room:  clearly the photos do not show the door or the fireplace that are shown in the Hermitage watercolor and the floorplan of the N & A suite.  As a result of cutting off the room about half way into it, the photos have a tendency to make a rectangular room seem square.  The photos of the ceiling really help to connect the room with the watercolors.

BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 07, 2007, 08:36:48 PM
Before I move on to a different room, I thought I would pose a question, which I can't answer, to the group.

This first image I'm posting is an approximate diagram of room 187.  As you may have already figured out, the Malachite room and Alix's Empire/White Drawing share a wall. The second image is of the Malachite's western wall, which is a "mirror" image of room 187. (I quoted mirror because the left door is, in fact, a false door. Incidentally, there is also a false door, again on the right if you are facing it, on the opposite side of the Malachite room.) The red marks on the diagram represent the placement of the false door and the fireplace in the Malachite room.

Here's my problem. I've been looking at 187's floor diagram and have been trying to locate the b&w photo BobG posted (thanks, btw!) and am stumped. I'm not stumped because I don't believe it is not room 187, but because I'm trying to figure out how one square end table, one 3-person couch, one chair, one circular table, and the edge of a chair can physically fit on 187's eastern wall between the southern wall and the alleged fireplace, which is not in the photo. This "stumpifier" of mine is the primary reason why I mentioned in an earlier post- "until I see a picture that undeniably shows the western wall, there will be a teeny-tiny, infinitesimally small kernel of doubt in my mind."

What does this all mean? Here's my thinking so far:

1. Yes. All that furniture can fit against the eastern wall because it is an optical illusion. The furniture in question is much smaller than you think. And/Or the section of wall in question is much larger than you're giving credit.

2. Yes. All the furniture can fit because there is no fireplace in room 187. The only floorplan I've seen of this space that I can verify is c. NI and AF. Clearly it existed then, but maybe it was removed during the remodel of NII & Alix?

3. No. All that furniture cannot possibly fit in the space between the southern wall and the fireplace, therefore it has to be the western wall ... But for this to be true, both photographs c.1920 of the southern wall, with its distinct painting, have to be horizontally flipped. As comforting as this thought is (if only because I could give it a rest!) it is not very likely. Some people say, "Remember the Alamo!" but "Remember Occam's Razor!" is probably much more apt in my case!  ;)

So, what do you all think? After looking at the Malachite's western wall, do you think all that furniture could fit? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Spasiba!

1. Diagram of room 187

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/WPplan187.jpg)

2. The Malachite room's western wall

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/2007wp189screen.jpg)

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 07, 2007, 09:14:26 PM
Drat. I missed the cutoff to modify a post.

In case the colored photo is difficult to see, here's a bigger photo of the Malachite's eastern wall. Since they are identical, it should work.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kidwells/malachite_eastwall.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: James1941 on February 08, 2007, 12:30:26 AM
I would say the answer is Number 2.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on February 08, 2007, 06:42:15 PM
Interesting choice, James. Thanks for replying! Like I mentioned earlier, any and all thoughts, insight, or opinions are more than welcome. I would love to be able to figure this out, but since there a only a handful of sources available in English, I am not very hopeful. Heck, at this point I would be grateful for a mere consensus!


Gleb!!!!  I just started translating portions of Nesin's The Imperial Winter Palace During the Reign of the Last Emperor, but haven't come across any new information so far. The bulk of the text on the photo you posted is about the Malachite Hall. In fact, the next few pages are also on this subject. On page 146, Nesin begins discussing Alix's other rooms, but after a minimal explanation he flips back to the reign of Nicholas I and the 1839 fire ... I'll keep at it.  Maybe a gem or two will eventually be revealed. I can hope, can't I?  :D


 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on February 10, 2007, 06:59:03 AM
Gleb!!!!  I just started translating portions of Nesin's The Imperial Winter Palace During the Reign of the Last Emperor, but haven't come across any new information so far. The bulk of the text on the photo you posted is about the Malachite Hall. In fact, the next few pages are also on this subject. On page 146, Nesin begins discussing Alix's other rooms, but after a minimal explanation he flips back to the reign of Nicholas I and the 1839 fire ... I'll keep at it.  Maybe a gem or two will eventually be revealed. I can hope, can't I?  :D


So do I !! :) Also I am curious to know what the page with the photo of one of the children rooms and the page with the bath of Nicholas I are about.
Is it true that even Alex III lived in the app. of Nicholas I?

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 21, 2007, 09:11:42 PM
A rare photograph of the Tsar and family leaving the Winter Palace:

http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showObject.do?object=2007778564

Can anyone identify the location of this closeup of the door entrance that the Imperial Family used? Is it the private garden to the right and this was therefore the Neva side?

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on February 22, 2007, 04:06:18 AM
What a nondescript entrance.    A wonderful photograph, Joanna.

I think you are right.   It is on the Neva side.   It is possible to see part of the pillar for the huge gate to the private garden on the right.   The Belle Etage with the Childrens' Rooms is therefore immediately above their heads.

Like others, I have passed this corner many times and failed to notice any traces on the wall.   In future, I must pay a bit more attention.   I wonder if someone - Vladimir V comes to mind - would be kind enough to go to the Embankment, photograph this area of wall and post it here.

Thank you in advance.

tsaria

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on February 22, 2007, 10:45:04 AM
This entrance on the coner of the river side exists ever now.
It was used till 2003 year as the exit of the Hermitage Museum.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on February 22, 2007, 11:00:30 AM
It is the Own Entrance (for the Imperial Family and sometimes for the VIP foreign guests) on the Neva side. There were two small entrance. The second (the Children Entrance) was between the Own Entrance and the Jordan Entrance (the main entrance in the Soviet time). The Children Entrance was used as Hikaru said.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Arleen on March 02, 2007, 12:59:20 PM
Do room plans and photographs exist of the Children's rooms in the Winter Palace?

Arleen
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on April 01, 2007, 05:01:46 PM
Interesting articles on the Hermitage cats

http://www.taleon.ru/EN/taleonclub_ru/ProjectImages/2111/112_116-0.pdf
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 14, 2007, 07:09:01 AM
I think that the pics I am posting now are nothing new but since nobody has already posted them, I decided to do it.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Senzanome-scandito-02.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 14, 2007, 07:10:10 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Senzanome-scandito-01.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 14, 2007, 07:13:11 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/zd-hi1-d-a-10.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 14, 2007, 07:18:12 AM
I think that the room above is the the same room showed in this watercolour. Look at the firepalce. It looks the same.


http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/fullSize.mac/fullSize?selLang=English&dlViewId=K7Q%2B23%2B406CJQ8K0PA%2B40O&size=big&selCateg=picture&dlCategId=P93MIAICP7S8WC00&comeFrom=quick (http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/fullSize.mac/fullSize?selLang=English&dlViewId=K7Q%2B23%2B406CJQ8K0PA%2B40O&size=big&selCateg=picture&dlCategId=P93MIAICP7S8WC00&comeFrom=quick)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 14, 2007, 07:21:43 AM
If you look carefully, you can see one of the columns of the alcove on the left.

So the nursery was excatly beneath the imperial bedroom.

Let me know your opinions.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on April 14, 2007, 08:48:59 AM
Gleb,
What "room above" are you referring to?  I can't seem to find a picture with a similar fireplace to the watercolor.

BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on April 14, 2007, 01:53:06 PM
Gleb,
What "room above" are you referring to?  I can't seem to find a picture with a similar fireplace to the watercolor.

BobG

Sorry, Gleb.  When I blew up the picture, I see that you're referring to the picture immediately above.   I tried to delete my quoted posting, but I guess I can't.

Can I assume from the watercolor that this photo is one of the children's rooms on the ground floor of the Winter Palace (since they appear to be the same room).  I haven't seen many pictures of these rooms.  Have you seen any before the revolution?

Bob G
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on April 15, 2007, 12:01:11 AM
Watercolor's room is definetly ground floor. Because 4th reserved apartment was on the ground floor.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 15, 2007, 04:25:02 AM


Can I assume from the watercolor that this photo is one of the children's rooms on the ground floor of the Winter Palace (since they appear to be the same room).  I haven't seen many pictures of these rooms.  Have you seen any before the revolution?

Bob G

No I am sorry this is the only photo I have ever seen of the children's rooms.

As far as I know not only this room is on the ground floor but it is exactly under the Imperial bedroom, in fact the two rooms are the same size.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 15, 2007, 04:26:57 AM
I read that Nicholas II used to have a pool in his rooms. Any idea where it was exactly?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on April 15, 2007, 11:52:30 AM
I know the place of the bathroom - it is the near of the library.
The straigtht door in the room before the library :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Eddie_uk on April 15, 2007, 12:20:21 PM
I read that Nicholas II used to have a pool in his rooms. Any idea where it was exactly?

Hi Gleb, I think it might of been more of a large bath tub! Though I might be mistaken. I think he had a pull up bar too - great for the back.  ;D There are pics of Anastasia hanging of it.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: G.Michael on April 16, 2007, 11:31:38 PM
I read that Nicholas II used to have a pool in his rooms. Any idea where it was exactly?

If you look at the floor plans that have been posted, you will notice three relatively small rooms that overlook the interior courtyard. The one nearest the bedroom, with a single window, was the bathroom and dressing room for Nicholas II. The largest of the three rooms was the white dining room, with an unidentified room in between.

According to the book "The Court of the Last Tsar," by Greg King, the large bathtub had eight marble steps descending into it. And it could be filled with either fresh water or salt water.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on April 17, 2007, 12:00:48 PM


If you look at the floor plans that have been posted, you will notice three relatively small rooms that overlook the interior courtyard. The one nearest the bedroom, with a single window, was the bathroom and dressing room for Nicholas II. The largest of the three rooms was the white dining room, with an unidentified room in between.

According to the book "The Court of the Last Tsar," by Greg King, the large bathtub had eight marble steps descending into it. And it could be filled with either fresh water or salt water.



Thanks a lot for your answer!

I think that the room between was a sort of service room for the dining room nearby. But I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: grandduchessella on April 30, 2007, 12:39:11 PM
I just obtained several volumes of the Illustrated London News from the period of 1920-22. There was a good deal of coverage of the Russian situation in them, including these 2 photos of rooms from the Winter Palace in 1921:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/lastscanwinterpalacestudy1921.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/lastscanwinterpalacedrawing-room192.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on May 01, 2007, 03:44:52 AM
Thanks Grandduchessella!!! :) :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on May 05, 2007, 08:33:33 AM
What a great pic of AF's sitting room, shows how well preserved they were.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on May 18, 2007, 05:53:29 AM
Does anyone have a copy of the inventory that was taken of NII and F's rooms it is mentioned on the Hermitage web site in the section on the Galle exhibition
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 18, 2007, 06:07:53 AM
Except they look remarkably like the rooms at Alexander Palace.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Belochka on May 18, 2007, 07:14:52 AM
Except they look remarkably like the rooms at Alexander Palace.

They do indeed Robert, especially the study!

It is extraordinary to be there and see them in real life.

Margarita  :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 27, 2007, 10:05:03 AM
The Study of Empress Alexandra Fyodorovna by Edward Hau;I do not think it was posted before.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/TheStudyofEmpressAlexandraFyodorovn.jpg)

I may inferred that this must be included in the damaged rooms during the revolution,isn't it?
V.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on May 27, 2007, 10:49:54 AM
That is great Vassili_Vorontsoff. 

The one thing I can never believe is that right after Nicholas and Alexandra got married "they had nowhere to live."  I have read that in books and I find that statement so ironic. 

Sorry to go off topic,
-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on June 06, 2007, 06:16:39 PM
The salon cramoisi designed by Stackenschneider in 1858 for Maria Alexandrovna on the right(the left is the dome of chapelle desigened by Rastrelli and restored by Stassov.

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/cabinetcramoisistackenschneider1858.jpg)

Do someone know where this shot may have been taken?I daresay in the witer palace given the fact an hopital wa establiched in the nicholas great hall,don't you?
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/alexis-1.jpg)
Vassili
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on June 06, 2007, 06:27:52 PM
Quote
Do someone know where this shot may have been taken?I daresay in the witer palace given the fact an hopital wa establiched in the nicholas great hall,don't you?

I believe a hospital was established at the Catherine Palace and that is where Alexandra and the girls went most of the time, to the "big palace." (Alexandra) 

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on June 07, 2007, 04:19:14 AM
That photograph was taken on Alexandra Feodorovna's balcony at the Alexander Palace.   The 'Big Hospital' was in the Catherine Palace.   The Feodorovsky Gorodok too was used as an hospital, but it was more closely identified with the Grand Duchesses Marie and Anastasie.    The Empress and her older daughters also nursed there.   The Winter Palace was used as a hospital during WW1.   The Imperial Family remained in Tsarskoe Selo at this time, although the older Grand Duchesses did attend meetings of their various charities there.

Alexandra Feodorovna converted space in the Winter Palace which was used as a hospital during the 1905 war against Japan.

tsaria
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on June 08, 2007, 05:28:29 PM
We TALKED of the hopital in the palace:in room Nicholas
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/sallenicolas.jpg) 

As I realy love this picture of the Ermitage I can not prevent form posting it...
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/palaisdiv.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on June 08, 2007, 06:35:45 PM
The count Witte as a minister in the winter palace:

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/witte.jpg)

Once more,could someone say where,the scene muct have taken place?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: grandduchessella on June 12, 2007, 11:18:36 PM
Pictures from February 1918 showing the sacking of the Winter Palace:

Room that had formerly been a study of Alexander II

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture117AIIStudyWPFeb1918w.jpg)

A study of Nicholas II (Kerensky had his bed behind the shown screen)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture116wpNIIstudyFeb1918w.jpg)

Marie Feodorovna's  workroom (you can see the shell damage on the wall)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture115WPMFworkroomfeb1918w.jpg)

Room belonging to Tatiana

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture114WPTatianaFeb1918w.jpg)

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on June 13, 2007, 05:14:35 AM
How sad!  I did read that Nicholas protested to the sack of the Winter Palace (if he was still alive?)  Maybe I have my facts mixed up...

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on June 13, 2007, 06:44:32 AM
The people who did that were absolutely shameless.   I feel sorry for anyone who is descended from that bunch.

They weren't starving, they weren't homeless or destitute - they were thugs.

As for their 'success' in overthrowing the older order... there are more people - children in particular - living on the streets, in the sewers, and attics of St Petersburg today than there were in 1917.   

tsaria
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alixz on June 14, 2007, 08:39:32 AM
I find it interesting that cameras are allowed and that visitors can take photos of the interiors of the palaces.

In so many museums and exhibitions that is not allowed for various reasons.  The say it is because all the flash light would harm the exhibits but I think it is because they really want to sell the photo packages in the gift shop.

However, the photos taken by all of you help put the black and white photos into perspective  :)

And tsaria, you are absolutely correct.  The trashing of the Romanov residences was a senseless act of brutality and vengeance against the Imperial Family. It was a chance to destroy something that the vandals had envied and could now debase. A symbolic trashing of the Imperial Family itself.   :(
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on June 15, 2007, 03:57:11 AM

A study of Nicholas II (Kerensky had his bed behind the shown screen)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture116wpNIIstudyFeb1918w.jpg)

Marie Feodorovna's  workroom (you can see the shell damage on the wall)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture115WPMFworkroomfeb1918w.jpg)



Does anyone know where these rooms were?

p.s.

Wonderful pics, as always. Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Eddie_uk on June 15, 2007, 08:28:32 AM


Room belonging to Tatiana

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture114WPTatianaFeb1918w.jpg)



Thank yopu Gd Ella. Very sad pictures. Any more information on this room? What did Tatiana use it for? Looks to be a lot of papers.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: grandduchessella on June 15, 2007, 09:19:53 AM
No, there wasn't any information about the rooms themselves other than basic captions except for what I added about Kerensky's bed.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 15, 2007, 01:57:02 PM
As the IF had ceased using the Winter Palace as a residence some years before all this, I doubt that there was much in the way of their personal effects in these rooms. Except, perhaps for Nicholas' offices; The Bolsheviks  took the Palace from the Kerensky regime, so the papers strewn about most likely came from them- the Bolsheviks no doubt looking for enemies lists.
 Also, the looting was quickly put to a stop, the most damage actually done to the wine cellars.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on June 15, 2007, 02:11:43 PM
Sorry to go off topic but was the Winter Palace totally empty after 1905 when Nicholas and Alexandra moved to the Alexander Palace.  Did some Grand Dukes move in as place holders?

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on June 15, 2007, 02:24:52 PM
To drow a parallel with the sacking of the winter palace,inventoring in tsarskoye selo
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/tsraskoye.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 15, 2007, 02:38:47 PM
Sorry to go off topic but was the Winter Palace totally empty after 1905 when Nicholas and Alexandra moved to the Alexander Palace.  Did some Grand Dukes move in as place holders?

It was never really "vacant". It still was a working palace. The ofices of the court were there, and it continued to be used for offiicial functions. I am not sure about this, but there might have even been people living in "grace & favour" apartments  then.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on July 24, 2007, 04:45:52 PM
As the IF had ceased using the Winter Palace as a residence some years before all this, I doubt that there was much in the way of their personal effects in these rooms. Except, perhaps for Nicholas' offices; The Bolsheviks  took the Palace from the Kerensky regime, so the papers strewn about most likely came from them- the Bolsheviks no doubt looking for enemies lists.
 Also, the looting was quickly put to a stop, the most damage actually done to the wine cellars.

(sent through webtranslation.imtranslator.net)

The official report of the inspector of room property of the Winter palace

To the chief of Petrograd Palace Management of the Inspector of room property of the Winter Palace

25 December, 1917
THE OFFICIAL REPORT

Representing herewith in six pictures representing a number of rooms on different half of the Winter palace, and also premises of pantries (on choruses of a cathedral of the Winter palace, and in livrejnoj a pantry), especially suffered at pogrom and the armed robbery of the Winter palace at night with 25 for October, 26th, during the whole day on October, 26th and up to poludnja on October, 27th this 1917.

I inform your Excellency, that almost in all rooms of the Winter palace (behind rather rare exception) the robbery of a different sort of property of room conditions is made, and also it is a lot of breakages from furniture and and, both from simple mischief, and from cannon shells, machine-gun and vintovochnyh shots. Not small quantity of subjects of conditions are finally put out of commission and there can not be restavrirovany for have lost the original form so, for example, were found on floors, windows, a furniture of a part bronze a candelabrum, hours, vases and other ornaments, and subjects were not at all; it were available mechanisms from hours, but there were no their cases, or there were cases, but there were no mechanisms. Fine slices of the broken vases, parts bronze a candelabrum rolled in a heap of dust and different stuff in different rooms of a palace, on ladders and in corridors. There were in different places of a back from sofas, legs from chairs or armchairs, but the subjects were not or have been transformed into fine pieces or chips. Among fragments of a tree and other dust in premises of a palace there was a decent quantity of a sea grass, mochaly, down and feathers; all mentioned was from furniture from which there was sporota a matter or a leather, from mattresses and krovatnyh pillows from which their environments consisting of a tic have been cut off, domestika, morocco and suede. In some premises, in a lot of rooms the furniture at windows and balconies for the device of barricades that those could serve as protection against bombardment outside has been made; and needless to say, that the furniture served for barricades, in the end-ends, has appeared a part absolutely destroyed, by a part is strongly broken and will demand major overhaul.

In all premises of a palace, with rare exception, are stolen from windows and dverets curtains, poluzanaveski, zanavesi, draperies, all these things have been made from paper, silk, hempen, a tulle, woolen and cloth matters; some of the mentioned subjects are stolen even with eaves, cords, gruzikami and copper podvesami... Piece carpets and napkins for tables velvet, cloth and pljushevye, was different premises of the Palace, are stolen, and some napkins are cut up by knifes and transformed into fine pieces or strips, anywhere suitable and are found thrown in halls and corridors of the Palace in heaps of dust.

In some premises silk matters by which walls have been upholstered are cut off by the whole panels or laces and the different tapes served by ornaments of mentioned walls are torn off a tulle. In a plenty covers from furniture, tire covers from tables and floors are stolen, all these subjects have been made from domestika and cloths. From a billiard room of Emperor Nikolay II billiard spheres are stolen and is much spoilt furniture, matters and other subjects.

In a plenty from various subjects of room conditions are cut off and sporoty their upholsteries made of different materials, but mainly from what were of great value, as, for example, silk, trip and a leather.

end pt 1
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on July 24, 2007, 04:50:01 PM
begin pt 2

The premise on choruses of the Cathedral Winter (a pantry 42) where desk sets were stored, umyvalnye porcelain and other devices, stone ornaments, products from bronze, as that has undergone to plunder and rout: hours, candelabrums, figures from bronze and porcelain and other. Easter eggs, porcelain and stone, different grades of those and others are stolen in rather plenty. The eggs-charms made of the Ural stones, are stolen...

In 8 Chambers-þíãôåðñêîãî of a corridor where the things personally belonged Their Imperial Majesties and which were me under available inventories are stored are handed over on reception of the Art Commission, also have undergone to plunder.

In 23 Big frejlinskogo a corridor where also there are stored things personally belonging Their Imperial Majesties and which have been handed over by me under available inventories in reception of the same Commission, and some of them to the going damage also have undergone to a robbery. On a corridor rooms of Emperor Alexander III had a plenty of things which have been brought by Its Majesty from travel on the East during the stay of its Successor Tsesarevichem, and also some subjects, brought to Their Majesties at various times and different persons. These things have the inventories and by me also have been handed over in reception of the Art commission. Now some of the mentioned subjects are finally destroyed, the some people are spoilt by breakages so, that can be hardly corrected, as all have suffered from the got cannon shell which was broke off inside of Secretarial rooms... To full rout and plunder have subjected apartments of countess Gendrikovoj, maid of honour Buksgevden, byv. An apartment of the maid of honour knjazhny Obolenskoj, prince Dolgorukov, prince Rat-kova, etc., and also premises of sisters of mercy in numbers Big frejlinskogo a corridor, numbers of a commandant's corridor, and in general hardly probable will be in the Winter palace such premises where rout (which would not be made understand in sense of the going breakage and damage of things up to unrecognizability and theft).

Then I report on your Excellency, that any sort partial plunders in the Winter palace have begun with that moment when in the Winter palace various public organizations have been admitted. On such partial thefts informed your Excellency in due time. Such partial thefts have especially amplified, when the significant amount of premises of the Winter palace served needs of members of Provisional government and when former Chairman of Ministerial council A.F.Kerensky and when from it pereedom in internal premises of a palace armies have been admitted has moved to the Palace on a residence. Then I inform, that in many numbers big Frejlinskogo a corridor, Chambers-Þíãôåðñêîãî of a corridor, on III spare half, in numbers of IV spare half, in numbers of a commandant's corridor the different persons concerned Provisional government and to A.F.Kerenskomu <have moved on a residence...>

In summary I consider as the duty to report, that since October, 25th, 1917 and to this day there was such order in the Winter palace, that the property is frequently taken out without my misses and, hence, without mine is conducted that is why bear any responsibility for an integrity of property actually I can not.


The inspector of room property of the Winter palace N.Dementyev.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 24, 2007, 05:18:36 PM
Interesting, Brian.
 My guides told me that although there was a lot of looting, the Bolsheviks made most of be returned as "property of the people" and that most damage was actually "superficial" and limited to certain areas. Considering the size of the place- larger than Versailles I would say, and amount it contains, it is hard to imagine much really missing now.
 For more reference you might see  Saving The Tsar's Palaces by Morgan & Orlova.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on July 24, 2007, 06:48:29 PM
Interesting, Brian.
 My guides told me that although there was a lot of looting, the Bolsheviks made most of be returned as "property of the people" and that most damage was actually "superficial" and limited to certain areas. Considering the size of the place- larger than Versailles I would say, and amount it contains, it is hard to imagine much really missing now.
 For more reference you might see  Saving The Tsar's Palaces by Morgan & Orlova.


http://webtranslation.imtranslator.net/webtarget.asp?clientid=default&appid=ImTranslator&dir=ru/en&dic=General&extsvr=&auto=1&url=http://fragments.spb.ru/hermitage_2.html

(if that link doesn't work, just send
http://fragments.spb.ru/hermitage_2.html
through a translator... there's also a an entry about the looting of the wine-cellars, i believe.)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 24, 2007, 09:05:20 PM
Yes, when order was restored- more or less I should suppose- the wine cellars were emptied [what was left of them I imagine] into the Neva to curtail the drunkeness. I think those cellars supplied all the imperial residences so the inventory was huge.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on November 10, 2007, 07:34:38 PM
I just get their hands on this watercolor of the room of feld marshals in winter palace, I think the realization is very successful.

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/salledesfeldmarchaux.jpg)

Vassia
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: rgt9w on December 30, 2007, 01:55:32 PM
Does anyone  have any insight into why the Provisional Government inhabited the private rooms of Nicholas and Alexandra in the Winter Palace? Were these the only functional rooms in the palace for doing day to day government work as many of the other rooms were so formal? Was it more of a political statement that the provisional government had assumed the Emperors place and therefore they used his rooms to illustrate that?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 04, 2008, 06:16:35 AM
These pictures were posted in the past, but all appear to have been erased because of cancelled photo-bucket accounts.

View 1 of Nicholas and Alexandra's bedroom at the Winter Palace
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/NickAlexsRoomWinter.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 04, 2008, 06:17:30 AM
View 2 of Nicholas and Alexandra's bedroom.
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/NichAlixBedroom2.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 04, 2008, 06:18:16 AM
Alexandra's Boudoir at the Winter Palace - 1917
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/EmpressBouidorWinter.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 04, 2008, 06:19:07 AM
Nicholas Study at the Winter Palace View 1
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/NicholassStudy1-1917.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 04, 2008, 06:19:34 AM
Nicholas Study 2
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/NicholasStudy2.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 04, 2008, 06:20:20 AM
The Silver Drawing Room (aka the Louis XVI Drawing Room) 1917
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/TheSilverDraw.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: gleb on March 04, 2008, 01:27:57 PM
Very kind of you :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 24, 2008, 09:53:29 PM
My apologies if posted previously as I tried searching without success. A photograph of the Dining Room in the Winter Palace after the assassination attempt on Alexander II c1879 [a long url !]:

 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5:%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%97%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0_II.jpg

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 30, 2008, 06:14:14 PM

http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showObject.do?object=2007778564

It shows a clearer idea of the location of this door (most likely room #14 on the legend). There is no indication today that there was ever an entrance. A possibility is that they had to walk down to the basement to get to it rather than the ground floor as the space between the window and floor is very narrow. Unless there was a gradual slope or stair opening at that interior point down to street level. As interior stairs were installed for access to the children's rooms from the first to the ground similar to Empress Elizabeth's in Schonbrunn, these types of structural renovations appear to be doable. There is another similar entrance (#11) further down that can be seen above the heads of the group again with no trace of today. Any comments or ideas on the curious set up of this entrance?

Another point is why the court even added these two entrances especially as they faced the busy neva embankment. The issue of protection was critical and yet here are two extra entry points to the palace. It would be interesting to know the year they were installed, possibly at the same time as the garden gates or earlier when the exterior balconies were added.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on June 30, 2008, 07:06:50 PM
It is a curious set-up considering security. No answers or conjectures here, but I'll keep my eye out for any mention of it when/if I get back to this thread. (In case anyone wondered, I abandoned it mid-stride due to pregnancy woes.)

btw- What legend are referring to in your post? I re-looked through this thread at King's map and also checked the Hermitage site and #11 & # 14 don't match any rooms on the Neva side ...

thanks for the AII dining picture, too.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on July 01, 2008, 10:19:36 AM
I was looking through my copy of ЭРМИТАЖ - ИСТОРИЯ СТРОИТЕЛЬСТВА И АРХИТЕКТУРА ЗДАНИЙ (Hermitage - History of the Building's Erection and Architecture) and found a picture of a watercolor done by Angelo Toselli in 1820 that indicates there might have been a door in place as early as 1820 ... Granted, it's in a slightly different location, but maybe the location was shifted later?


(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll421/APTMphotos/Winter%20Palace/WPc1820.jpg)

A closer look:
(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll421/APTMphotos/Winter%20Palace/WPc1820Frag.jpg)

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Reco on July 01, 2008, 02:24:01 PM
Soon after the revolution, we can see no fence, two balconies and a door opening on the garden

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3136/phiverzimniy0014564palank3.th.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phiverzimniy0014564palank3.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Reco on July 01, 2008, 02:31:42 PM
In 1920, we can see no fence, no balconies, the door opening on the neva and the door opening on the garden

(http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/158/phiverzimniy0014600russkr2.th.jpg) (http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phiverzimniy0014600russkr2.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 01, 2008, 07:03:58 PM
That is brilliant Amy! It is a door with the awning that must have been replicated after the fire of 1837 and by 1900s had been enclosed as a  wooden entry. In Reco's photograph c1920 when they were taking down the fence that was moved to the Peterhof highway park, you can see what looks like a similar entrance on the Admiratly side which would have led from the children's enfilade of rooms to the private garden. It would be interesting to know how these entrances were structured in the interior as I am thinking the basement would be curved supports similar to what I have seen of the Putiatin/Stakenschnieider buildings on Millionnaya.

Amy, I had found through the years in guide books such as Blue Book, Baedekers, the legend numbers of the ground floor. In the entrance to the Hermitage, they give out large scale three page plans of the rooms that I will try to scan. If anyone does visit, I suggest picking up two - one to keep pristine for your reference - as after days of walking around orientating yourself it does become awfully scrunched!

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Reco on July 01, 2008, 09:44:18 PM

On the photograph of 1920, we see a tower above the palace. Can anybody say to us that became this tower?

Reco
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 01, 2008, 10:10:10 PM

On the photograph of 1920, we see a tower above the palace. Can anybody say to us that became this tower? Reco

It may be a communications telephone tower that was built on the roof c1900s. There is no tower in photographs I have prior to the building of the gate enclosure of the private garden in 1901 and is not there today. I am wondering if the soviets tore down the tower at the time of the removal of the gates in 1919 or thereafter as the necessity of its use would have become redundant. The authorities i.e. Lunarcharsky at that time may have made the decision to revert to the original design of the winter palace/hermitage. Any comments?

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 23, 2008, 09:16:51 PM
My apologies if already posted as I may be again in forgetful mode but this photograph of a room in the suite of Nicholas II in the Winter Palace is first time for me to see. Could it possibly be his bathroom as the window wall papered embrasure appears different from his other rooms.  Can anyone confirm which room it is?

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_Ru/12/2005/hm12_1_20_1_2_5.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on July 24, 2008, 09:15:28 AM
It was discussed at some point and I think it was determined that it is a section of NII's bathroom, which most likely corresponds to room I on King's map.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 24, 2008, 04:25:41 PM
Many thanks Amy! I knew it would be that I forget and search was difficult to find reference. I have been assisting Hermitage in identification of photographs in their collection and I just realized I should ask of Nicholas' rooms for rare photos when I have moment later. I will let you know how it progresses.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 06, 2008, 11:22:19 PM
On the photograph of 1920, we see a tower above the palace. Can anybody say to us that became this tower?Reco

Reco, I have found a detailed description of the Winter Palace roof which includes this description of the telegraph tower built in 1835:
На северо-западном ризалите Зимнего дворца сохранилось напоминание об еще одном интересном техническом изобретении позапрошлого века, реализованном в резиденции Романовых, - "телеграфический обсервационный домик с покоями для директора телеграфической линии, его помощников и сигналистов", возведенный в 1835 году по проекту архитектора Л. Шарлеманя.

The full article with incredible information - for example in 1887 there were twelve thousand electric lamps and of the rooftop walkways where Nicholas II walked:
http://www.altes-td.ru/smi/pressa_rooftools12.php

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 07, 2008, 12:26:40 PM
The original pdf version of the tour and historical description of the rooftops of the Winter Palace by Irina Dmitrieva. On page 5 photograph of the walkway:

http://www.ard-center.ru/archive/ts/2006/07/zimniy_dvorec_7-06.pdf

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Reco on August 07, 2008, 01:38:26 PM
Merci beaucoup Joanna

I found this bathroom...

http://www.ard-center.ru/archive/ts/2008/02/zimniy_dvorec_2-08.pdf


Reco

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 07, 2008, 10:15:45 PM
Description of the Hospital in the Winter Palace 1915-1917. Rooms close to the private suite were being used such as the Nicholas Hall, bathrooms and showers located in the Winter Garden Entrance and the Jordan, etc. Also included nurses' diaries of events.

http://www.svobodanews.ru/Transcript/2007/11/10/20071110163759057.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 08, 2008, 07:18:26 PM
Mille fois merci Reco! Je trouve un autre sur les poêles! - another on Winter Palace stoves:

http://www.ard-center.ru/archive/ts/2008/01/zimniy_dvorec_1-08.pdf

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 01, 2008, 01:22:07 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/2856927050_3a6552b138.jpg)    Details Alexander Room Winter Palace
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 01, 2008, 01:28:19 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/2855964377_66d3808f9a.jpg) Rotunda
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 01, 2008, 11:19:03 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/2856742596_272c42e8b3.jpg)(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/2855912481_7aa8f4cbf4.jpg)Malaquite  Room
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 01, 2008, 11:21:50 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/2856738766_6f5b0af7ab.jpg)Malaquite Room
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 01, 2008, 11:27:26 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/Detallesalonmalaquita.jpg)Malaquite Room  Details
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 01, 2008, 11:30:31 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/SalnBlackamoor.jpg)Blackamoor  Room
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on October 07, 2008, 06:04:19 AM
Does anyone have any idea where the childrens rooms were 1896-1917. I am sure between us we can get a plan and some idea of where these rooms were. Also where was the new lift that was installed for the private apartments.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 07, 2008, 10:12:22 AM
David, The Children  Rooms  was in the Ground  Floor  Just  Below  Their Private Rooms,  They Built a Door at Neva Facade to go at Palace Embarkement.  there are some Photos in this or other page of this forum.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 07, 2008, 10:17:20 AM
There are Maps of the Private Rooms in this forum page  1 to 15 Pages  I don´t Remember the exact page....
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on October 08, 2008, 03:03:46 AM
Thank you all, yes I know about the plans of NII and AF's private rooms and the private access to the Neva Façade. I have seen one or two of the childrens rooms after the revolution but none before and no real layout of their rooms. I have always assumed that the elevator and staircase which seems to be beside NII's bathroom and access to the White Dining Room connected these suites. There must be somewhere amongst the Winter Palace archives the drawings and plans by the architect and interior people for the refurbishment of 1894-5 that Ella helped with.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on October 09, 2008, 12:46:08 PM
Yes David the Elevator is just beside the Nicki´s Bathroom. I think the  Hermitage Museum could Restore the Private Rooms...
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on October 10, 2008, 04:26:08 AM
I so agree with you Sir, I think those rooms should be restored and I think the apartments of AII should be too, it would be a wonderful historical insight to the lives of the occupants. I think the Winter Palace ensemble would benefit from it. The stores seem to have so much from the rooms and the inventories are available.

Thank you for the elevator info, I was sure it was there some where!!

David London X
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on October 10, 2008, 06:54:34 AM
I find the apartments at the Winter Palace fascinating as it was only after 1905 that the IF stop living there so much if at all. It would be nice to have the same amount of detail on these rooms and they life they lead there as we have on the AP. Which has grown into a first class resource.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 03, 2008, 05:12:44 PM
The little winter garden of the Empress Alexandra Feodorovna ( Nicholas I wife) in marked on the coloured plan as 182. It is the same space with the Empress's "boudoir" and connected with the "large winter garden" ( 181 on the plan).

I believe this watercolor of Alexandra F.'s boudoir c1850s is #182. The door openings on the right lead to #181.
http://www.arthermitage.org/Edward-Petrovich-Hau/Interiors-of-the-Winter-Palace-The-Boudoir-of-Empress-Alexandra-Fyodorovna.big.jpg

Two other views of Alexandra F's Winter Garden #181 c1850s with steps down to enclosed area. This indicates the depth between floors that help to understand how Nicholas II was able to instal a sunken tub in his bathroom.
http://www.arthermitage.org/Konstantin-Andreyevich-Ukhtomsky/Interiors-of-the-Winter-Palace-The-Winter-Garden-of-Empress-Alexandra-Fyodorovna.big.html
http://www.arthermitage.org/Konstantin-Andreyevich-Ukhtomsky/Interiors-of-the-Winter-Palace-The-Small-Winter-Garden-of-Empress-Alexandra-Fyodorovna.big.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 23, 2008, 09:16:29 PM
Can anyone identify this photo c1917? It could either be the 2nd floor suite of Alexander III or a ground floor room of the Grand Duchess. The ceiling approximates the curved pillar section with the enfilade down to the room overlooking the Admiralty that I remember from the childrens' suite but then it may be the upper floor which has been changed completely for exhibition space.


Another photo that identifies the above as Grand Duchess Tatiana's room but the bottom photo states it was Alexandra's room. Can anyone confirm as it may be the study of Nicholas?



Joanna

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 01, 2008, 08:40:07 PM
A photograph dated October 25, 1917 of what could be Alexandra's study. From Amy's previous posts on the excellent identification of the location of the desk, this looks like the corner area with the door leading to the Imperial bedroom. Can anyone help? If it is, you can see the detail of two door entry between the rooms that is missing today.

http://visualrian.ru/storage/PreviewWM/0643/88/064388.jpg

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on December 02, 2008, 03:08:23 AM
Is it not the corner drawing room??? The fabric pulled from the walls looks like the fabric the Provisional Gov. put up to protect the walls and one hopes much of the objets d'art and such had already been packed away. As many of AF's dresses survived it can only guessed how many were destroyed or damaged. As she wrote in a letter from Tobolsk about this.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on December 02, 2008, 11:33:50 AM
Great find, Joanna! The wallpaper looks like a match to Alix's corner drawing room/ study so I agree with the IDs.

But, the desk in your photo is not the same one from earlier photos.

As an aside - Isn't the original desk now at Pavlovsk?

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 19, 2008, 08:10:57 PM
Fascinating photo of Nicholas II arriving by carriage to the garden entrance of the Winter Palace in 1894:

http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001842285

On the left is a close-up of the balcony #181. The scaffolding is possibly part of the renovation work of the rooms of Nicholas and Alexandra.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 21, 2008, 06:14:24 PM
Difficult to guess the year but most likely early 1920s as where the corner balcony was located still has the window door length prior to restoring to uniformity. Can anyone help?

http://pitercult.ru/gallery/starye-fotografii/old_25.jpg

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on December 24, 2008, 05:32:27 AM
Very strange to see cows going past the Winter Palace !. Good heavens ! This could only happen in  Soviet Russia ! Are you referring to the window on the middle floor, on the corner? Please forgive my ignorance, but which room gives acces to the former balcony ? The pic seems to be the wrong way round. I may be mistaken. The balcony with the sunshade was on the right hand side ( same side as the chapel ?) if looking at the palace with ones back to the Neva. This is what it looks like on the old photographs.

In Kerensky's autobiography, he mentions that he was walking along the embankment one evening, looked up, and saw Nicholas standing on this balcony. ( Probably taking a smoke break!)  Amazing.

Christmas greeting from Cape Town.   
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 08, 2009, 07:23:30 AM
Exhibition of 1902, organized by the Empress:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Faberge/Faberge20Imperial20clock2071.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Faberge/Faberge20Imperial20clock2041.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Faberge/Faberge20Imperial20clock2011.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: antti on March 12, 2009, 09:07:26 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint2.jpg)

This furniture was found from private home in Finland and is going for sale. The owners were a bit surprised when they learned were it was from. Hopefully it gets back to Winter Palace.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 16, 2009, 07:56:15 AM
May I plse ask a question ? Could someone tell me which of the private rooms lead to the balcony.  ( It always looked so flimsy, as if it could just fall down, depositing some Imperial person in the rose bushes below!)  Someone has said that the enlarged window is still there. I have studied so many photographs and cant see it.

Also does anyone have a photo of the door the family used to enter the palace? Or did they just enter the front door ?

Thanks   
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Annetta on March 16, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Dear Joanna and Pavlov!!!
that pic with the winter palace and cows refers to the 1940th, time of sieged Leningrad. people had nothing to eat and these cows were driven to the city from nearby villages.
"This could only happen in  Soviet Russia" - this exclamation is false. this is result of german nazis invasion.

if you are interested,  look at this beds of cabbage in front of the St'Isaak Cath, one of the main cath of Saint-Petersburg

http://perspektivy.org/osobaya_tema_velikaya_pobeda/pobeda_9.htm
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 16, 2009, 10:12:15 AM
St Issac's is a remarkable building.  It used to store treasures from the Winter Palace during the siege.  As well as bomb shelter for those staff who were left. It also withstood the bombing with little damage.  Going up to the dome balcony and the cupola above that provides a  wonderful  of the city. Which is  probably why the Red Army comand used it as a watch post.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on March 16, 2009, 02:48:36 PM
May I plse ask a question ? Could someone tell me which of the private rooms lead to the balcony.  ( It always looked so flimsy, as if it could just fall down, depositing some Imperial person in the rose bushes below!)  Someone has said that the enlarged window is still there. I have studied so many photographs and cant see it.

Also does anyone have a photo of the door the family used to enter the palace? Or did they just enter the front door ?

Thanks   
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/ChangingoftheGuard.jpg)
Pavlov,
The family entered the palace courtyard via the gates on Palace Square and entered the palace through the entrance to the left on this picture.  This would be the way they would enter in carriages and later in autos.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/sideentrance2.jpg)
On occasionally, they would leave via the entrance on the Neva embankment, but I believe this would be primarily if they were travelining by boat .


BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 16, 2009, 02:57:44 PM
that pic with the winter palace and cows refers to the 1940th, time of sieged Leningrad.

Many thanks Annetta. I did not know what that was that surrounds the lower perimeter of the palace and must have been sand/gravel with bunker style entrances.

Pavlov, the one in the photo I had linked to was #304 - the suite of rooms of Alexander II's wife Marie Alexandrovna. Another was located in #181 part of the suite of Nicholas II and Alexandra. It was originally rooms occupied by Alexandra Fedorovna, wife of Nicholas I. This was part of her Winter Garden which also had a recessed stair area that is no longer there. The balconies although appearing fragile were of iron. The door windows were later after the revolution restored to the uniformity of the windows that you see today. Most exterior photos of these balconies are fussy with grillwork, awnings, that it is impossible to see the door but interior paintings from c1850s-60s show the interior area leading unto the balcony.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 17, 2009, 09:00:58 AM
Thank you for your answers.
I did not mean to give offence about the cows, it just looks so unusual to see them strolling past the Grand Winter Palace ! Those were terrible times, and people were starving, so I suppose it could have been their last walk. 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 23, 2009, 09:03:01 AM
Are the big arched windows in the photo those of the former winter garden ? Looks like that is the sunny side of the palace.
Interesting pictures, i wonder what door they used to sneak in and out of privately. Alexander ll used to sneak out for a walk about town, until things became too dangerous. I suppose there are hundreds of doors anyway, probably a huge security risk and one of the reasons they basically moved elsewhere after A ll's assasination. I can imagine that even today the building must be a nightmare to secure from burglars. From what I can remember the Louvre in Paris does not have all that many points of entry.
I was once locked into the Palace at Versailles by accident, which was great, as i could snoop around to my hearts content. But it was very difficult getting out, and I spent hours looking for a door, and almost ended up in jail !  I WOULD NOT MIND BEING LOCKED UP IN THE WINTER PALACE !! Imagine all the wonderful snooping one could do in there. I would find all those private apartments they are hiding from us !! Sigh.
   
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 23, 2009, 11:55:41 AM
The Hermitage is a museum now, not a residence. They are not  hiding any private apartments, they simply do not exist any longer. They are now galleries.  I have been to the place several times, and the former private apartments of the last IF  are now galleries of 19th & early 20th century furniture.
 Oh, I was once locked into St Denis in Paris.  I was so engrossed  in the  crypt. That was interesting, being all alone with the dead kings & queens of France.  When they found me, I was not arrested but was told it happens often and they appreciated the attention. It is in an out of the way area, after all.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 23, 2009, 06:45:50 PM
In a way they are hiding parts of the private apartments. In Nicolas & Alexandra's suite, there are rooms behind the main ones which were once bathrooms and wardrobes, also the chapel. Whether they retain any of the original design, it is difficult to ascertain unless one of us has a peek. Granted in the rooms of Marie Alexandrovna, her bath and any indication of the plumbing is gone. The rooms of the ladies-in-waiting on the upper floor have been dismantled and sectioned off for displays. But there are areas of the Winter Palace that are off-limits, such as the suite of Baron Fredericks. What remains of it? Also of Count Tolstoy's, the last director of the Hermitage. Offices and restoration rooms abound throughout but again we do not have access. There are many books published on the Winter Palace/Hermitage with the majority relating to the art. One by Piotrovsky is a treasure of plans throughout the decades, photos, drawings. One day I hope a complete historical series on each reign is published, collected from all the archives not just the Hermitage.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 23, 2009, 07:08:44 PM
No, they are not "hiding anything.  The rooms you metion are put to other uses. The  bathrooms, toilets and  pantries were removed long ago, The idea at first was to remove the personal aspect of the palace, but retain the historical.  Renovation is a constant process. Any museum that was once a palace residence is  in always in a state of renovation. Even when it was an Imperial residence, each reign brought changes. Rooms rearranged, decor changed.  By the time N&A got hold of it,  there was not much left of the  old apartments anyway. They did not even spend much time there.
 It is one of the world's greatest museums. That is what  it should remain. Not a mausoleum to a bunch of dead Romanovs. There is plenty of history left as it is. And, just why would anyone be interested in Frederick's old rooms?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 24, 2009, 04:55:23 AM
Hi Joanna
Yes it would be fascinating to research the "back rooms' and what is left of the family rooms, even although they may be wardrobe rooms or bathrooms. There may be utility rooms which are too small for displays. I would also love to know what remains of the kitchens, which must have been huge. These are probably used for storage now.
It is a pity that these rooms are not revived in some form, as it would give the museum a more "lived in" feeling. Versailles is a good example, although the French have a different attitude towards their history, and different priorities.
I, for one, am fascinated by what happened behind the scenes.
Its such a shame that the Russians at that time just ripped everything out, but I am sure that huge parts of the palace have remained unseen for decades. Its such an enormous building.
I wonder what choices they would make today, had the rooms still been there ? I would hope that the rooms would have remained intact,as a different sort of display, and for history's sake, and not because many Russians have not come to terms with their last royal family. Pavlovsk has a beautiful bedroom, a similar display in the Winter palace would have been nice.
But perhaps one day. 
     
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 24, 2009, 07:45:26 AM
The back rooms are used for staff, curators and such, and offices.  Now, I could very well br mistaken about this, but I do not think the Winter Palace ever  had kitchens.  It was the practice at the time to have kitchens in a separate building. Hence the heating bowls in the china service.  This was because of fires, usually started in kitchens. They did have vast wine cellars though. But that was emptied out  during the  revolution and was used for storage  during the siege of WW2.
 As you mentioned Pavlosk, the Hermitage is a huge complex yet they display only the best of thier collections.  If they were to recreate some of the old rooms, they would have to remove the displays that are already there.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Reco on March 24, 2009, 08:01:00 PM
For a long time, I read memories of a cook. Kitchens were located in the basement.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 24, 2009, 08:40:12 PM
Which cook was that Reco and.  what book  is his memories published in, if I may ask? I have heard so many stories about the  palace, I will not stand by anything,. Like I said, I could very  well be mistaken. For instance,, I was once told the Imperial Kitchens were near the stables.  After the bombing in 1880 and the assassination  in 1881, the IF  really did not use the place  much anyway.  Mostly for ceremonial functions.  I think there were  spinsters and widows as well as  functionaries in residence, but hardly enough to  require a full  kitchen.











i
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on March 25, 2009, 08:32:22 AM
I have a HUGE book on the Winter Palace in Russian, so unfortunately I cannot translate, but it seems though as if the kitchens were in the basements directly below the living quarters of the members of the Imperial Family.  For instance the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna (wife of Paul I) had her own kitchen, Alexander I and his wife, their own below their quarters, which were the same rooms occupied respectively by Nicholas I and II and the wives, the Empresses Alexandra Feodorovna.  I would think that there were further kitchens that were used for the banquets which did not form part of the private kitchens of the Imperial Family.  I'll look again at it tonight and see what I can make out as my Russian is very basic.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 25, 2009, 10:57:41 AM
I think you  are right, pers.  I have similiar or same book here.  I should have  looked through it first.  And,  it was the catering kitchens that were located elsewhere.  They also served  the Anichkov Palace as I recall.  For the large  banquets and such.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 27, 2009, 01:38:26 PM
Antonin Careme, the famous French Chef, was invited in 1819 by Prince Sergei Volkonsky ( The Head of the Imperial Household) to cook for Alexander l.  Prince Volkonsky was, like most Russian aristocrats at the time, a Francophile, hence the invitation.
Careme does not mention that the kitchens were anywhere else than in the Winter Palace, and that everything in the kitchens was constantly "audited", which he found an insult to his honour.

 He was also invited by the Dowager Empress to Pavlovsk, where he  prepared a dinner for her birthday, and also to the Catherine Palace. Here he saw for the first time a special stove designed to keep the plates warm, and where a "suite" of rooms dedicated to the preparation and service of food  existed, the actual kitchen was very narrow. The kitchens at the Catherine Palace were extensively renovated after the Nazi bombardment.

 Careme's visit to Russia was fairly short, but had a significant influence on Russian Cuisine, and vice versa.
 On his return to France he introduced to Europe the Russian way of serving food, " Service a la Russe" which changed the way we eat to this day.
He also introduced to the west, the Russian tradition of placing flowers on dining room tables, instead of elaborate silver and porcelain dishes containing fruit etc. Probably hothouse flowers from Tsarskoe Selo, one would imagine.

I find it hard to imagine hundreds of waiters rushing through sub zero temperatures in the snow with warming dishes serving dinner to thousands of guests in the Winter Palace. There have to be very large kitchens in the basement of the building, to cater for everyone, including the hundreds of servants. Probably storage space today. I think the concept of separate kitchens, to keep smells and fire at bay, probably only applied to country houses, and places like Tsarskoe Selo where they had the space to do so. The Elagin Palace has a very beautiful kitchen building.

A bit off topic, but I thought quite interesting.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 27, 2009, 02:16:58 PM
You could very well be correct, Pavlov. The truth probably lies in  both our views.  I just remember a guide pointing out a building me, on a canal tour a building behind the palace as the kitchens. He did not elaborate. I also read about these in some book I have, which I have been unable to locate. There were special vans to transfer the food to the  palace, which was  not far in any case. Remember, the WP   did burn down at least once that I recall.    There also was a separate laundry building.  And a tailoring  shop.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 27, 2009, 04:47:13 PM
And, just why would anyone be interested in Frederick's old rooms?
I am.

First reaction reading this, dismay. Was anyone interested for example in my translations of the AP rooms? Was I alone in being intrigued with the behind the scenes of palace life? I must admit I felt off-kilter, stumbling. Then realization, different interests are okay. I had thought of examples such as Schonbrunn where in my youth the toilet of Emperor Franz Josef was deemed sensitive and closed off but today is of major interest. Or of Sisi's Blauer Hof at Laxenburg where I poked around all the rooms. The Yussupov Moika Palace has photos/drawings of Felix' pool bath that is probably like Nicholas II in the Winter Palace or of the toilet room of Zinaida. I want to say of another building that I know intimately (not related to royalty) but this questioning in my mind of my interests has inspired me to pursue publication.

Of the Winter Palace kitchens, this article gives a short description of their locations:
http://kremlin-9.rosvesty.ru/news/48/

В Зимнем дворце (с конца XVIII в.) действовало одновременно несколько кухонь для каждого из живущих в нем членов императорской фамилии. Поскольку в Зимнем дворце постоянно и временно находились тысячи людей, кухни дворца занимали значительные площади в цокольном и первом этажах дворца. Самый большой кухонный комплекс Зимнего дворца – императорский – располагался в помещениях первого и полуподвального этажей, сгруппированных вокруг северо-восточного внутреннего дворика. До сих пор в Эрмитаже бытует старое название этого дворика - Кухонный. В прежние времена его нередко называли также Черным. Сейчас это современное название проезда между Зимним дворцом и Малым Эрмитажем. В подвале кухни хранились продукты, вода, уголь, дрова, там же находились жилые помещения. Названия помещений кухни отражали их функциональное назначение: Пирожная, Мундкохская или Собственная кухня Его Императорского Величества, Супермейстерская, Расходная кухня. Далее вдоль Растрелльевской галереи, под залами Военной галереи героев 1812 года, находились помещения для кухни императрицы Марии Федоровны (жена Павла I). Кухни и их повара переезжали из дворца во дворец вслед за своими хозяевами.

Quick translation as my own is amongst many papers:
In the Winter Palace (the late XVIII century.) Operated a number of kitchens in each of its members living in the imperial family. As the Winter Palace permanently and temporarily were thousands of people, the palace kitchens occupied considerable space in the basement and first floors of the palace. The biggest kitchen complex Winter Palace - Imperial - located on the premises of the first and basement, grouped around the north-east of internal courtyard. Until now in the Hermitage, there is the old name of this patio - Kitchen. In the old days, it is often called the Black Sea. Now is the modern name of travel between the Winter Palace and the Small Hermitage. In the basement, kitchen storage products, water, coal, firewood, there is also accommodation. The names of the kitchen facilities reflect their functionality: cakes, Mundkohskaya or kitchen of His Imperial Majesty, Supermeysterskaya, disposable kitchen. Then along Rastrellevskoy galleries, halls of heroes of the War Gallery of 1812, were the premises for the kitchen of Empress Maria Feodorovna (wife of Paul I). Kitchens and Cooks moved from the palace to the palace after their masters.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 27, 2009, 05:20:26 PM
Really, Johanna,  I think you are over reacting. Of course we are interested in your translations.  I apologise if I  offended you.  But my point was what is the historical importance of Fredrick's rooms ? Not much, IMO.  He was, after all, just staff. They were more an office than living quarters anyway.  And the IF did not not even use the WP much. As time went on and palace functions changed.  I am sure there was much in the way of changing needs. What may have been useful in the 18Th century   may not have been in the 19Th. And, I as well interested in the behind the scenes  stories, but  some things I simply find irrelevant.
 Thank you for the translations on the kitchens, BTW.  I am familiar with Careme. He was the precursor of the  great Escoffier.
 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Douglas on March 27, 2009, 08:13:03 PM
In the Winter Palace (the late XVIII century.) Operated a number of kitchens in each of its members living in the imperial family. As the Winter Palace permanently and temporarily were thousands of people, the palace kitchens occupied considerable space in the basement and first floors of the palace. The biggest kitchen complex Winter Palace - Imperial - located on the premises of the first and basement, grouped around the north-east of internal courtyard. Until now in the Hermitage, there is the old name of this patio - Kitchen. In the old days, it is often called the Black Sea. Now is the modern name of travel between the Winter Palace and the Small Hermitage. In the basement, kitchen storage products, water, coal, firewood, there is also accommodation. The names of the kitchen facilities reflect their functionality: cakes, Mundkohskaya or kitchen of His Imperial Majesty, Supermeysterskaya, disposable kitchen. Then along Rastrellevskoy galleries, halls of heroes of the War Gallery of 1812, were the premises for the kitchen of Empress Maria Feodorovna (wife of Paul I). Kitchens and Cooks moved from the palace to the palace after their masters.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 28, 2009, 02:39:46 AM
With everyone it seems having their own kitchens, and no ventilation in winter to speak of, the smell of cooking must have been something else. Perhaps thats were the " bad smell"  in the Palace came from. It must have been overpowering.

The laundry went to the Anitchkov Robert , that I know for sure. The Imperial laundries were there. Even the laundry from Tsarskoe went there, apparently..

Anyway now we know where the kitchens were / are, who did a bit of the cooking, and who did the laundry !! What a relief.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 28, 2009, 02:49:22 AM
Robert I am aware of the fire, but do you perhaps know where it started, and what part of the palace was destroyed, did it reach the Hermitages ?. Did it start in the private rooms, or one of the kitchens?  Did they ever find out ? How much of the furniture did they manage to save ?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 28, 2009, 04:14:55 AM
I agree, Pavlov, the laundry and I think the tailoring shop were at Anichkov, in a  seperate building from the palace itsef. That  place is more of a complex than a single residence.
 As for the last fire, no, I do not know much except it started in the kitchens  during the reign of Nicholas I. I am sure whatever was lost was also quickly replaced.  With the resources at hand, I am sure they had no problem  doing that.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on March 28, 2009, 09:04:24 AM
I cannot recall where I learned that the main palace laundry was housed in this building at  Fontanka, 4  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/Fontanka4.jpg).  It is possible that the Imperial famillies laundry was taken to the Anichkov palace, but at some point this building was used as the laundry for the Winter Palace.  It is very likely that it served all occupants of the Winter Palace except the Imperial Family.  If anyone has more info about this laundry, I'd love to hear it.
BobG

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 28, 2009, 11:45:08 AM
I think Greg King mentions it  in The Court of the Last Tsar.  However, it is not in the index so  would have to reread the whole thing to find it.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 30, 2009, 02:57:08 PM
Robert, I am sensitive. It can be inhibiting as one feels vulnerable to being judged harshly whether intended or not. With the time factor dealing with different projects, you tend to wonder if it is worth the effort to post. But that is not to say others must edit their responses, it is for me to bypass.

To clarify what I should probably have posted - Rather than using Fredericks name as it is well-known, it may have had more resonance with the deciphering of the floor plans if I had written the State Apartment which was assigned to the Minister of the Court. The rooms were used as living accommodations as the office of the minister was located in the Chancellery building. The suite was used by successive ministers and adds to our understanding of the operation of the Imperial Court assignments through the different reigns. To see interior photographs c1900s would be interesting just as I would be intrigued to see ones of the Reserve Guest Apartments.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vecchiolarry on March 30, 2009, 04:55:36 PM
Dear Joanna,

Please don't stop posting, for Heavens sakes;  we learn so much from you, as you have been to so many places and your research does help us all put places and names to the conglomerate of Imperial Palaces and Russia.

Larry
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Cathy on March 31, 2009, 07:50:05 AM
I think Greg King mentions it  in The Court of the Last Tsar.  However, it is not in the index so  would have to reread the whole thing to find it.
Robert
Page 118 (hardcover) Chapter 'Below Stairs at the Palace'
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Condecontessa on March 31, 2009, 08:53:36 AM
Joanna, I always look forward to your postings. I appreciate your willingness to share info no matter how trivial it may seem. For a historical place like the Winter
Palace, eerything about it is interesting. I only hope to be able to see it in person one day. :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on March 31, 2009, 10:33:15 AM
Joanna

I love your posts and they are always very informative. I share your fascination for the apartments and rooms we dont see, there must be hundreds of them. I sometimes dream of being allowed to walk around undisturbed for as long as I want, and investigate.
The fascinating thing about the Winter Palace is that it has been changed, added onto, and rebuilt after the fire, many times, unlike so many other Palaces in Europe. Parts of the building go back to Peter the Great, and each inhabitant thereafter has had a go at it.
 
I agree that it would be wonderful to see photographs of the guest suites, and the apartments of the senior courtiers etc. I am sure these are all used for storage purposes now, but one does not care..
To be entirely honest, I would be fascinated to see the old toilets if I had the opportunity. They cannot have removed everything !
Absolutely everything about this building fascinates me.

     
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 31, 2009, 01:45:50 PM
In 1925 the second floor of the WP was being used to stack the paintings that had been confiscated from private and ecclesiastical collections for examination. Many were leaning against walls and spread out on the floors of the Maids of Honor rooms. At that time, there were still baths and "remains of a kitchen".

I still find it confusing in trying to identify this floor. I note from various sources that Rooms 314 to 350 were the bedrooms etc of the pages and maids of honor yet 359 is known as the Corridor of the Maids of Honor. Rooms 351 to 364 were part of the suite of Princess Yurievskaya and 383 to 394 of Nicholas I and Alexander III.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on March 31, 2009, 03:28:45 PM
I wonder could those rooms on the second floor named as rooms belonging to members of the IF, actually be rooms of their staff or wardrobe rooms...perhaps store rooms. Though I think these rooms belonging to their respective suites more likely. Just a thought, oh and Joanna you may not stop posting that's an order....LOL. I love your work on here!!!!

David Newell, London
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on March 31, 2009, 04:57:31 PM
Oh I forgot to say, I remember reading somewhere that under the great church was a series of rooms called the great buffet, or kitchens. I may be wrong but thought I would mention it.

David Newell, London
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on April 01, 2009, 07:46:27 PM
I think you are right David in that during AIII and NII reigns, Princess Yurievskaya's suite would have been converted. NI and AIII rooms probably remained as the photos of AIII's during Kerensky's time have the look of old. Alexandra's wardrobes were on the second floor and would have been located close to the staircase of their suite by the chapel.

Nicholas I was an enigma. He had rooms on this second floor and on the ground floor where a spiral staircase continued from his small bedroom to his bathroom. In 1925 his motheaten coat was still there and his wardrobe could hold few clothes but with a secret mirror behind which his porn collection. We were lucky in that in trying to figure out the obscure rooms within a small corridor in the WP, an archivist/curator was wonderful taking us through endless parts of the WP to the children's rooms. It was funny in a way as we were up and down staircases and passing tourists who were stunned to see us in and out of closed areas but I really wanted to say "oh this is marvelous but I have no idea of each room, it is too fast to figure out". I am still befuddled!

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on April 06, 2009, 11:59:27 AM
Oooh I would have loved that, I had a private tour like that of the White House once and the tiny rooms in the attics at Versailles.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on April 07, 2009, 08:21:29 AM
Does anyone know more about the 'Great Fire' ? I know it burned for days, and destroyed a large portion of the building, and was restored in record time, but in a different style.
I am interested to know where it started, which part of the building was affected, and if the Hermitages were burnt as well.
I know that the Jordan staircase was damaged, and was restored to the original Rastrelli design, with the exception of the ceiling, which was painted as part of the restoration. Did they manage to save the furniture ?

Thanks   
 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on May 12, 2009, 07:40:14 PM
Hello Pavlov,

I know I have read bits & pieces about the fire while researching the Winter Palace over the years, but the only details I can remember right now refer to the sections of the palace which both sets of N&As occupied. The one detail that I remember most is (I think!) that the Malachite room was created after the fire.

I have three plans to share, which I just remembered I had on my hard drive, but I can't remember where I found them. It was a Russian site in Russian that had several articles about the history of the Winter Palace. I might have posted a link to this site earlier in this tread, but I might not have either. Sorry for the bad qualities of these plans. I think these are all 1st floor plans, but I'm 100% sure. I also have 1st floor plans for 1836 and 1838, but they are trapped in a book right now. They are from Hermitage - History of Buildings Erections and Architecture, an awkward title translation to be sure! but it is what it is. I'll try and photographs them since my scanner broken, but no promises on how quickly I can post them.

1. WP 1759

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/th_wp1759.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/?action=view&current=wp1759.jpg)

2. WP 1818

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/th_wp1818.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/?action=view&current=wp1818.jpg)

3. WP 1888

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/th_wp1888.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/?action=view&current=wp1888.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on May 13, 2009, 08:47:05 AM
Thank you so much for your trouble. I have seen the floorplans previously posted on this site, but not a comparison of all three periods together !!. It is amazing how the building has changed over the years.
 
May I ask one more question:
Does anyone know what construction materials were used when the palace was built ? I dont know if they had steel beams in those days, but would imagine that the floor and supports were / are wood. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the fire was so badly. Also if one looks at the photographs of Pavlovsk and the Catherine palace after the Nazis left, all the floors are missing, So this makes me think that all the floors are made of wood covered in parquet.

I do know that most buildings in St Petersburg were originally build of wood, because there was an endless supply and Peter the Great was a guy in a hurry, and therefore the city grew so quickly, fires became a problem. Exstinguishing them was difficult because of the canals, and the lack of sufficient bridges.  A bit like Venice, which obviously even today is a huge fire risk. Also because of access problems.
When the Fenice Opera house burnt to the ground it took hours to get any fire fighting equipment near the building in time.

When Elizabeth became Empress, buildings were constructed using bricks and mortar, covered with ( stucco) on the outside. Where I live we call it plaster.

They started using building materials such as stone, marble and granite in Catherines time, and the Marble palace was one of the first examples.

So does anyone know for sure ?

This is a boring question, I know, but I often wonder about this. 
   
     
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on May 13, 2009, 02:05:41 PM
The following passage should help answers at least some of your interesting questions, Pavlov.

Excerpt from: The Winter Palace - St Petersburg

"... [Montferrand] also modified the neighboring hall, dedicating it to Peter I, so that it became known as the Peter Hall or Small Throne Room.

It was behind the walls of these rooms that, on 17 December 1837, there took hold a fire which was to rage through the building for twenty-four hours.... Nickolai Pavlovich ... took charge of the salvage operations, ensuring the safety of all the portraits in the 1812 Gallery. Everything else which it was possible to remove quickly - furniture, paintings, porcelain, bronzes, rugs and clothes - was brought out and piled in heaps on the Palace Square. Every possible precaution was taken, meanwhile, to prevent the flames from spreading to the Imperial Hermitage and its art treasures.

The smoke-blackened shell of the palace was not to remain open to the elements for long; ... [it] was completed only fifteen months later, in the Spring of 1839... the state staircase [Jordan?] was to be 'restored exactly as it was', and the Nevsky suite and other halls were to be returned to 'their former appearance'. Stasov thus took pains to reproduce not only the palace's baroque architecture but also its most imposing interiors; influenced as it was by nineteenth-century techniques and materials, however, the restoration work as it appears today is flatter and less varied than the original, the exuberant colours and wealth of decorative detail of the first interiors having been partially abandoned."
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on May 13, 2009, 04:14:57 PM
Continued ...

References are then made to the following state rooms:

Jordan Staircase
Antechamber
Nicholas Hall
Concert Hall
Pompeian Gallery
The Great Field Marshals' Hall
Peter Hall/ Small Throne Room
Standards Hall
Sentry Hall/New Hall
The Great Throne Room/St George's Hall
The Cathedral Vestibule
The Cathedral
The Small Church
The Rotunda

And I was mistaken about the Malachite Room. From what I have just read, it was recreated after the fire.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on May 14, 2009, 07:41:54 AM
Thank you very much. You have been very helpful, and have answered all my questions.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on June 05, 2009, 08:01:06 AM
The original book on the decorations and furniture for Nicholas and Alexandra's private apartments in the Winter Palace is the following: "Painting on furniture and other decoration in the Rooms of Nicholas II" - Russian State Historical Archive, archive 489, list 2, file 509.  Maybe some of our native Russians can take a look at it and see whether it contains something to contribute to this topic?

Also I see two very resourceful persons who wrote the chapter on the Private rooms of Nicholas and Alexandra in a large photo book are Dr. Tatiana Petrova and Dr. Tamara Malinina.  I think both of them are affiliated with the State Hermitage Museum.  Maybe we can get through them a copy of the plan of the rooms of the Northwest corner as they were when Nicholas and Alexandra and the children occupied it?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 29, 2009, 09:31:10 PM
A view of a room in the Winter Palace c1917 which from the height appears to be of the second floor - Can anyone identify?

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i295/_mbp_/wp.jpg

Excerpt from the memoirs of Benois:
http://isl.livejournal.com/296196.html#cutid1

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 02, 2009, 10:36:54 AM
I remember seeing a link to this site a few years ago, maybe Gleb’s post, that had a few of Hau’s watercolors of the Winter Palace c1860, mainly ceremonial halls that were familiar. And now finding it again I am stunned – there are over 100 paintings! The majority are of the private rooms of the Imperial family that I have never seen nor had known they were part of the collection.

For example, the bedroom and boudoir of GD Marie Alexandrovna, daughter of AII. These rooms are identified as 5th Reserve.
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-59.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-58.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-57.html

The rooms of Nicholas I’s wife, Alexandra Fedorovna which correspond to Nicholas II and Alexandra’s:

Room 182:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-14.html

Two views of Room 184 – Bedroom:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-61.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-62.html

Room 181:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-32.html

There is also another incredible site with Ukhtomski’s watercolors to compare the above Garden Room of Alexandra’s with Hau’s:
http://izomir.ru/imperskie-hudogniki-uhtomskii,_konstantin_andreevic_-_vidi_zalov_zimnego_dvorca._malii_zimnii_sad_imperatrici_aleksandri_fedorovni.html


GD Marie Nikolaeva & Duke of Leuchtenburg’s:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-46.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-50.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-51.html

4th Reserve:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-76.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-77.html

The full spectrum of Hau’s work:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec.html

and of Ukhtomski:
http://izomir.ru/imperskie-hudogniki.html

Exquisite!
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 16, 2009, 07:52:16 PM
Trying to identify the various rooms and reserve apartments to correspond with the palace legend:

Valet Room of Alexander II - #170
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-33.html

Bedroom of Alexander II - #171
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-35.html

Dressing Room of Alexander II - #169
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-26.html

Study of Alexander II - #173
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-33.html

Also in KR's diary in 1894, he writes of Sandro's anger at the rooms prepared at Ropsha and that "... In the Winter Palace, the rooms which are being prepared for the young couple were previously occupied by the Tsars and then in the 80's by Sergei and Pavel, between the Saltykov and Sobstvenny entrances..."

The bedroom of Alexander II had remained the same and was shown to people c1900s. I am wondering if the rooms were on the courtyard side between the Saltykov and Sobstvenny which is the Private staircase:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-39.html
These rooms would be from #158 to #166. Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna's rooms (daughter of AII - prior to 1874) may possibly be within this enfilade from #158 to 160 or the other side of the dining room closer to her mothers rooms #162 to 166:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-58.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-59.html

Joanna

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on August 18, 2009, 01:46:32 PM
Joanna,
I can't say for sure where Sergei & Paul were housed but it makes sense that they would be in the rooms between 157-161.  These were rooms formerly used by GDs Nikolas, Mikhail and Konstantin Pavlovich.  Clearly Alexander II's rooms which although primarily on the Admiralty side, did spill over to rooms 162-164 on the courtyard side (Alexander II had several library rooms) and would have been kept as he lived in them.

As for GD Maria Alexandrovna, her suite (like Nicholas's girls) was on the ground floor in what was referred to as the Fifth Reserved Apartment basically under rooms 170-172.

As for Alexander II,  Room 169 was a Library; Room 173 was the Antechamber of the Suite used also a dining room. Room 174 was a Billiard Room.
Across the corridor opposite Room 170 was hiis wardrobe (probably either room 164-165).

Most of this info comes from the Winter Palace watercolor book.

BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on August 25, 2009, 03:47:24 AM
I remember seeing a link to this site a few years ago, maybe Gleb’s post, that had a few of Hau’s watercolors of the Winter Palace c1860, mainly ceremonial halls that were familiar. And now finding it again I am stunned – there are over 100 paintings! The majority are of the private rooms of the Imperial family that I have never seen nor had known they were part of the collection.

For example, the bedroom and boudoir of GD Marie Alexandrovna, daughter of AII. These rooms are identified as 5th Reserve.
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-59.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-58.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-57.html

The rooms of Nicholas I’s wife, Alexandra Fedorovna which correspond to Nicholas II and Alexandra’s:

Room 182:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-14.html

Two views of Room 184 – Bedroom:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-61.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-62.html

Room 181:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-32.html

There is also another incredible site with Ukhtomski’s watercolors to compare the above Garden Room of Alexandra’s with Hau’s:
http://izomir.ru/imperskie-hudogniki-uhtomskii,_konstantin_andreevic_-_vidi_zalov_zimnego_dvorca._malii_zimnii_sad_imperatrici_aleksandri_fedorovni.html


GD Marie Nikolaeva & Duke of Leuchtenburg’s:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-46.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-50.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-51.html

4th Reserve:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-76.html
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec-77.html

The full spectrum of Hau’s work:
http://www.museumer.ru/zimnii-dvorec.html

and of Ukhtomski:
http://izomir.ru/imperskie-hudogniki.html

Exquisite!
Joanna



many years ago, Rizzoli published an enormous book
(both in size & number of pages -- several hundred),
in a very nice fold-open box, simply titled THE WINTER PALACE.    
it contained beautiful reproductions of Hau & Premazzi's watercolors of the interiors --
the state rooms were well represented, but most are of the family apartments.

in many cases, the watercolors show the evolution of rooms & even suites of rooms
as each occupant moved-in & redecorated.  
hundreds of rooms are depicted, more than are shown on the websites.  
but i first learned about Hau & Premazzi on the those websites & so, owe them many, many thanks.

it's a beautiful book & the images are glorious.

i've shared many images from it, in the past... some may still be up, in the various Winter Palace threads.

.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kristina1 on September 01, 2009, 12:59:07 PM
In the summer of 1966 or 1967 I visited Leningrad (as the name then was) with a tourist group from Sweden. A lot of sightseeing was included and we got an extensive tour of the Winter palace. Although there was not much furniture, the splendor of the palace was evident as most rooms had been somewhat restored.

Now for the big mystery:
The absolute highlight was the malachite room. BUT that is not what I see today in pictures as the malachite room !
The malachite room I remember was a small room where the walls were paneled with malachite, the whole room was green. There were some furniture, a sitting group and tables with malachite tops. As I remember it was not a straight pass through, one came in and then had to turn right to exit. I do not remember any windows, but there might have been one or two covered by curtains.

After seeing this room we came out into the much larger malachite hall (the room today pictured as the malachite room) in white and with the malachite pillars. It´s only decoration was some urns of malachite (I would think some of the objects there today were then in the small room). I though it was a grand room but nothing to the green jewel I had just had seen.

I was back in Leningrad as a tourist in the 1980-th. Again went to the Winter palace but was disappointed as the room not shown. Asked a guide for it, she denied it even existed in a rather aggressive way.

To which rooms are the doors of the big malachite rooms leading ?
Can the small room have been there temporarely and is now moved to another location ?
Or ?

Can anybody help to throw some light into this mystery.

Kristina1
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on September 16, 2009, 02:31:43 PM
a map http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm89_0_1.html
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2009, 01:51:08 PM
Having read memoirs of the balls held in the Winter Palace it is interesting to finally see a plan of the palace floor with the set up of the tables in the various rooms and halls. The following pdf shows two plans on page 4 - one of the tables 1904 and the other of guest names for one table:
http://www.mirpeterburga.ru/online/history/archive/45/history_spb_45_3-12.pdf

As the article indicates, the last ball was not 1903 as has been replicated from the memoirs of for example GD Alexander Mikhalovich but in 1904. A translation follows of the article for those interested in the details such as entrances for coaches, rooms of tables, ceremonial, chamberlain journals:

Ball 1903 which many consider the last ball of imperial Russia, is well known because of the memories left by the participants, and publications in recent years. Impressions of this grand celebration, were probably less strong that it drove from the memory of authors who wrote their notes decades later, is really the last ball, held in Palace just a year - in January 1904. But it ended the era of big receptions at the residence of Russia's emperors. But before we talk about what was happening in the Winter Palace, we will return briefly to 1903.

The magnificence of what he saw amazed everyone who was lucky to visit it. First evening this grand celebration began the show at the Hermitage Theatre, which was invited about 300 people. The invitations it was written that guests must come in costume before Peter the Great time. The members of the imperial family and their inner circle brought into luxuriously embroidered stones and pearls, trimmed expensive fur clothes boyars and noblewoman. For Nicholas II and Alexandra Feodorovna were made royal costumes. The upcoming celebrations were prepared in advance - Choose and order liked to dress, some of which are more like costumes for theatre productions. That evening at the Hermitage theatre were shown scenes from Mussorgsky opera «Tsar  Boris »with Fyodor Chaliapin in the title role. They say that the spectacle was truly enchanting. Probably the first time the actors looked in auditorium with the same interest as the audience watched the scene on the stage. All participants Ball then took pictures in their fine clothes, was even released album. This Ball recalled, even those who are in it did not participate. Muriel Buchanan, daughter of the last British Ambassador in Russia's court, arrived in St. Petersburg only 1910, knew about that ball just the stories. But it is for life remember the dress, which she borrowed for the «Art of living» Princess OK Orlov (nee Princess Beloselsky-Belozerskaya), whose Winter Palace court dress costume haughty face looks at us with
portrait of Valentin Serov. She was famous for interior in the house on Moika, luxury given to her balls and elegance of Paris toilets. Miss Buchanan acknowledged that «always regretted their honesty and delicacy, which forced her to return the princess dress Orlova, since it is still then disappeared along with other treasures of her palace ... Dress It was pretty amazing, from pink satin, all embroidered with gold, with a long cape of gold brocade and hanging sleeves
pink velvet, crowned huge golden kokoshniks in the form of the sun, covered with twinkle
pearls »1. Probably, and other outfits were not inferior to that described dress.

How to remember who took participate in the festival VN Voeikov, last commandant of the Winter Palace and a personal friend of the emperor «This day heirlooms have appeared in such abundance that exceeds all expectations ». His story about amazing Winter ball commandant begins with the words: «The last season of balls in the Winter Palace was in 1903 »2. Remembered this Ball Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich, or Sandro, as called him at home. In his «Memoirs» he wrote: «January 22, 1903" all "St. Petersburg was dancing in the Winter Palace.
I do remember that date because it was the last great court ball in the history of the Empire »3.
Alexander says of a fancy-dress ball, with a touch sadness: as a true military and as man who knows Japan and all the East, he understood the danger of the situation, which is unfolding at the beginning of XX century in the Far East, but to convince his royal nephew, he was
succeeded, despite all the arguments presented to them. Nicholas II, tried drive away the gloomy thoughts, trying to convince himself and others, that everything is going well. Witte, while the former chairman Council of Ministers recalled that when, during a meeting in Darmstadt, Wilhelm said Tsar  of the preparations in Japan war, his Majesty with full calm replied: «War is not will be, because I did not want to »4. But some trouble in the palace all also felt. So perhaps desire to see the Tsar  of his guests in the costumes of the seventeenth century, Alexander Mikhailovich understood in its own way. It seemed that «at least for one night Nikki wanted to go back to the glorious past a kind of »5.

In 1904, as in previous years, the season opened in the balls mid-January after Christmas. First in the new season Ball was appointed on Monday, January 19. It was an ordinary day life in the palace was on the established routine, and for the royal couple also began as usual. «At 10 am Her Majesty, accompanied by maid of honor Princess Obolensky departure had to walk, and 11 o'clock in the outcome of the Emperor output had to walk in the garden at The Winter Palace. His Majesty deigned to accept the report of the General His Highness the Grand Admiral Duke Alexei Alexandrovich and Minister of Agriculture and State Property Ermolov. From 12 hours were lucky to be submitted Emperor (list herewith) »His Majesty deigned with - adopt the report of the General Admiral His Highness the Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich and Minister of Agriculture and State Property Ermolov. From 12 hours were presented Sovereign Emperor (list herewith) », --  recorded in chamberlain journal in January 1904 *. That morning represent the six Governors on the occasion of their arrival in Saint-Petersburg on business. Day of the Tsar «deigned to accept Mother Superior Lesna  and an American citizen G. Mellvil-Ston »6. Here's how to describe the events of unremarkable morning, Nicholas II in his diary, in which usual, he made a brief record of the main events of the day: «The morning was busy and the day generally tedious. Took report and different ideas to 4 hours. Walked  cleared my head. Takes up to 7 hours. Dined Andrew [Grand Duke Andrei Vladimirovich - the day on duty adjutant. - AK] »7.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2009, 01:53:53 PM
cont'd

Just briefly the events of that day displayed in the chamberlain journal, from which we learn that at 5 o'clock the Emperor walked in Garden of the Winter Palace, and at 7 pm dined with the Grand Duke Andrew Vladimirovich. An entry in the diary of Nicholas II: «In 9 1 / 2 started a big ball». In chamberlain journal entry: «By 9 o'clock had Special arrival, invited to the ball to Their Imperial Majesties in Nicholas Hall of the Winter Palace. Ladies in long dresses cut. People in dress uniform, court ranks and gentlemen who should be in court dress and shoes »8.
This meant that the court ladies and maids of honor were in court dress with a large neckline and train. Maids of Honor worn on the left side of the bodice cipher - studded with diamonds
monogram, and the so-called «portrait» ladies - a portrait of the Empress in diamonds. Military were in dress uniform of their regiments. The court should have dressed in accordance with the «Highest approved March 26, 1882 Rules of court wearing the ranks of established forms
Clothing »9.

The entire ritual of the holiday occurred in the hours worked over the years scenario in strict accordance with rules of court ceremonies. In published annually Court Calendar (small
booklet in red morocco, with gilt edges) in detail, showing ranks and titles, signs, who
had the right to be invited to large Nicholas Ball, sponsored once a year. In his invited the diplomatic corps and their families, military and a civilian ranks, consisting of the first four grades on report cards of ranks (not below Major-General Rear Admiral and the actual State Councillor), the oldest officers of the Guards regiments wives and daughters. Each of those who rank could be invited to ball and who expressed his desire to in it, was to be inscribed in the register at the marshal. In 1904 year post Chief Marshal (the first court rank) was occupied by Prince A. Dolgoruky, consisting with the Office of the Ministry of Foreign cases. In his role as Marshal (court rank in class 2) consisted PK Benkendorf retinue of His Imperial Majesty general
Major. The duty Marshal included the content of the table of the imperial family and the allowance of the court.

* In these journals every day, literally by the hour reflected the whole life of a distinguished person. Filled journal from his hands. First draft was written, and then he corresponded a fair copy, good calligraphic handwriting. Drafts of journals interwoven six pieces together in a leather-bound, for the year is two thick volumes of large format. Copied a fair copy for the  journal for each month and glued into with their court administration orders, menus, gala dinner and concert programs were interwoven in thin notebooks - a total of 12 notebooks for each year. For logging answered senior chamberlain who also headed the court attendants. This post was not the court, and, as then stated, the post «at the Imperial Court».
 
Dansky grades were at the palace with Jordan the door, and the military with the Commandant, located from Palace Square, closer to the millionth street. When same last visited closed, all directed at the entrance to the Jordanian the Neva (now the Chief entrance to the Hermitage). Must be indicated on which side to the palace have been driving up the coach. This was done in order to avoid confusion with hundreds of arriving guests. Within a few years such bulletins, memos signed by the chamberlain with an interesting name Farafontev. Rufim Fedorovich Farafontev was a senior chamberlain in 1904, official 10-th class, He worked at the court at this time the tenth year, and finished service in 1913, official 6th grade (rank of colonel). That
a «ceiling», to which he could promoted chamberlain. Them signed orders on the official protocol
ceremonies. Each of the guests could get acquainted with the rules entrance to the palace, which was as follows: «Entrance: His Majesty Saltykov (staircase, overlook  Admiralty - for the state-ladies, members of Gos. Council of Ministers and the First Court officials and their wives and daughters, court ministers, and maids of honor, their Highnesses and Princesses. For Congress to Saltykov Entrance guests are sent to from Palace Square, but not from the embankment.
Her Majesty - for the maids of honor, , senators, state secretaries, honorary trustees, officials of the Second Court, and servants of gentlemen, especially military Formation of His Majesty and adjutants Their Royal Highnesses. (After the Revolution, this entrance, overlooking the Palace Square, closer to the Admiralty was called the October, so as, through it, entered the palace «Members storming of the Winter» in night of 25 to 26 October 1917. - AK).
Jordan - for the generals, staff and senior officers, and civilian officials.
Ministerial, in the old days, this title was easier - «butler». Ladies, do not presented by the royal , written by Chief Court Minister, who headed the court lady's staff and offices empresses and grand duchess. Few years this supreme court post for the ladies occupied Princess Maria Mikhailovna Golitsyn. She was right and refused the invitation. As the dancers invited the young guard officers. The regimental commander normally reported, how many people need send, and he has already selected the officers at their discretion. This instruction was perceived not as an officer entertainment, as well as a duty. Been on this account and the instructions. For example, dancing at the ball, the officers did not supposed to drink champagne, to them do not smell the wine. Invitations sent out for two week.

Guests who are on Nicholas ball usually invited to 3000 people were supposed to arrive half an hour before the start. Take this the number of people simultaneously also was not easy. Order not to create a stampede at the entrance, opened more entrances of the palace and the Hermitage. Each of the invited had to know beforehand to what entrance it should come. Every year in a special bulletin for signature of chamberlain notify those rules and provides list entrances indicating who through a staircase should be included. Every year, entry rules the palace were about one and the also, sometimes, for some reason they are slightly changed. Thus court dress costume at the Neva - for Russia and foreign merchants. (This entrance is not there, it was rebuilt after the Revolution. -- AK), former entrance of the State Council - for foreign ambassadors and envoys (entrance is located in the building of the Old Hermitage, near the Winter Palace, now called Soviet. - AK) »10. A copy of such order, typeset, in the chamberlain  journal.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2009, 01:54:42 PM
cont'd

Here's how to describe your entry to the palace to the entrance of her Majesty. Graph.A. Ignatiev, a former court page of Empress Alexandra Feodorovna and the author of the famous book of memories «50 years in service»: «I went into one of the first, and the court footmen in gold-embroidered red coat still held by staircase, decorated with soft, fluffy carpet, and poured from bottles to red-hot iron shovels court perfumes, distributing some special, peculiar Palace flavor ... At all sites and turns were huntsman imperial hunting in embroidered lace tunics dark-green color »11. At the same marches Jordan stairs huntsmen stood in front form. Under the rules of the palace etiquette at the ball in special ruling house were consist of duty with the rank of courtiers. These were the chamberlains and kammerjunker (court ranks, respectively, 4th and 5th classes). Their responsibilities include daily (in turn) duty when the empress and other members of imperial family, as well as duty at the time of the court ceremonies. In chamberlain journal provides a list of duty gentlemen.

When the Empress Alexandra Feodorovna at the time described Ball attendants were chamberlains SD Rzhevskij and Earl M. E. Nirod and kammerjunker Graph S. Apraksin IL and Baron von der Osten-Sacken. When Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna (the wife of Grand Duke
Vladimir Alexandrovich, uncle Tsar ), Elizabeth Mavrikievna (wife of Grand Duke Konstantin
Konstantinovich famous poet KR) and Olga Alexandrovna (sister of the Tsar ) Duty of court ladies consisted of a chamberlain and a gentleman of the bedchamber.

Over the entire course of the ball followed ceremonial part, which consists of 13 ceremonies, headed by the Master of Ceremonies (court rank in class 2). In 1904, it was Count VA Gendrikov known extraordinarily zealous attitude to their duties, and Baron P. P. Korf. They should were to monitor the performance of all established rules. Thus, according to these rules, ladies and maids of honor duty collected in the Malachite Room, duty chamberlains, kammerjunker and pages - at the Concert Hall. «Other special», which include invited guests, gathered in Nicholas Hall, which housed at the direction of ceremonial clusters. Special Diplomatic Corps had to stand with his back to the windows, and court and ladies - on the contrary. Members of his dress uniform chamberlain, an officer's uniform names collected in Malachite Room.

Regular entry in chamberlain journal: «At 9.15 in the Malachite Room gathered: Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich, Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, the Grand Dukes Kirill, Boris and Andrey, Alexei Alexandrovich, Konstantin Konstantinovich,  Grand Duchess Elizabeth Altenburg, Grand Duke Dmitry, Nikolai, Sergei Mikhailovich, Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, Prince Pyotr Alexandrovitch, Prince Alexander Petrovich (Oldenburg) and George and Dukes Michael G. (Meklenburg-Strelitsky)».

At 10.30 all gathered and walked from the Malachite Room in Concert in Nicholas Hall, which was constructed for the court orchestra, and «ball was opened by the Polish under
applied in this order of »12. «The court was Polonaise this rite. The emperor walked in the first pair of arm my wife and head of diplomatic Corps. Grand Dukes shared the rest of the wives
diplomats and ambassadors marched with the Grand Duchess. Obermarshal, surrounded ceremonies, - each with a rod in their hands - went before the Tsar  and did pretend that paves the way for him. After the first round of exchange took place ladies, and strictly adhered to rank each of them. Number tours depended on how many women invited by His Majesty. Invited but listed
persons involved in the polonaise had no right », - writes AA Mosolov in his book, «In the last yard Emperor »13. Lieutenant Mosolov, Head Office Ministry of the Imperial court from 1900 to 1916, took participate in the last three balls reign and to know the subtleties palace ceremony.

But as described beginning Ball 1904 Count Ignatiev: «In first pair was the queen of the doyen of the diplomatic corps, Turkish Ambassador to the red fez head. Those with a purely eastern
deference kept Alexandra Feodorovna's arm and tried to how to get better in time polonaise from "Eugene Onegin". Behind this pair was the Tsar , holding the hand aging beauty, wife French Ambassador Marquis of Montebello, the owner of the largest Company champagne. Behind him walked the Marquis himself, a businessman with Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, wife of the Tsar 's uncle - Vladimir. Furthermore followed by couples in the same vein, the is composed of members of the royal family and members of diplomatic corps. They floated around the room among a long column crowds consisted of elderly men - members Council of State, senators, generals, courtiers younger Guards and officers of all ranks. Army for such tricks are not allowed »14.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2009, 01:56:16 PM
cont'd

"On that day Polonaise 13 pairs. January 19, 1904 , the diplomatic corps was submitted after six European countries: Great Britain, Austria-Hungary, Germany, France, Italy and Spain, were as ambassadors of Turkey and United States. The Japanese envoy was not due deteriorating relationship with Japan has presented the January 13 ultimatum to Russia demanding unconditional recognition of its interests in Manchuria.

NA Yepanchin, director of the Corps of Pages, left a book of memoirs «In the Service of Three Emperors»: «January 19, 1904 at the Winter Palace was a great ball, which is always was given about this time. At the Ball was Japanese envoy Motono;…” January 15 really was a great ball in the Nicholas Hall, but it was two years earlier, as evidenced by the record in chamberlain journal for January 16, 1902. A. Ignatiev, while the former cavalry Regiment, kept the ball in the memory of 1904 year to the smallest detail, because it was his last day peaceful life before leaving for war with Japan. He came to the ball as they say, on duty. He was one of four officers, which should help chief conductor of the ball - Adjutant-General Strukova…

After three dances advancing the turn of the mazurka, and then All are invited to dinner. But still before dinner, guests can try fruit, sweets, soft drinks, wine and punch in the East Gallery and Anteroom, where stood buffets with refreshments. Windows and niches draped, and they were put slides with precious dishes, salt cellars, cups. In the rotunda was covered with a tea table mainly for women. Columns were two buffet with wine and drink. The same tea-table was laid in the reception of the emperor, there were also fitted card table. In the Arab and property (White), dining room and stood card and chess tables. The ball was still in full swing, when, after the second frame with the Grand Duchess, foreign ambassadors, their spouses and State ladies «deigned to eat tea in the Malachite Room ».

Then the dancing continued, and at 12 o'clock the royal couple and members of royal family with an invitation to the Gala Dinner guests proceeded to «evening table », served in the Stamp, George, Alexander halls and other rooms of the palace on the attached map ». In terms shows that the tables were set back in White and halls, in the Golden room and living room, leaving windows on the Palace Square (1-I and 2-I spare half).

In his diary entry the Tsar : «The people were more than ever. For supper all had enough space. The rounds of tables All rooms »18. Chamberlain Journal reported: «the Emperor, seeing Her Majesty to the place at the table was pleased to proceed to accompanied by the Minister of the Imperial Court Baron Fredericks, Chief Chamberlain Prince Dolgoruky (in chamberlain journal erratum, A. Dolgoruky was chief Court Marshall. - AK), Marshal Count Benkendorf, Duty Adjutant General Sakharov, suite Major General Trepov and Grand Prince Andrew Vladimirovich halls of the Winter Palace past the tables involved invited personages, and, Returning to the Armorial Hall, deigned to take a seat at the table right withdrawal from the Petrovsky Hall »19.

Table for the highest royalty, or «own», was laid in Armorial Hall. The windows of the hall, go a big yard, draped, and slides were placed in front of them with precious dishes and cups. The table stood on a dais upholstered red cloth, and ate sat with his back to the windows, so that held the guests to see them. Passed the Tsar  and his entourage through the halls palace was furnished with a large solemnity. This each of the guests had to see Nicholas II, others were awarded the same conversation. There is describes this ritual by general Mosolov: «It is played
as the notes. Each of the tables, where the Tsar  was supposed to talk was left for him free place.  The Tsar  sat on a chair and made a sign the rest of the supper table: they are not allowed to stand. Suite retreating a few steps in side and waited for the end of the conversation. At the right time runner handed symbol, and the suite again took his place behind the Tsar  »20.

In chamberlain journal in addition to plans rooms in which Tables were placed for guests occupying the place of their position, separately given plan table for the highest royalty, laid for 30 persons. For this Table seats were registered.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2009, 01:57:47 PM
cont'd

At a dinner in the Armorial Hall January 19, 1904 in addition to the royal couple, three Grand Duchesses: Elizabeth Mavrikievna, Mary Pavlovna Olga Alexandrovna and the ambassadors and their spouses were present: Chairman of the Council of Ministers Witte, minister of foreign
Affairs Count VN Lamzdorf, Minister of Justice NV Ants, Minister of Agriculture and State. Property AS Ermolov, members of the State Council. PL Lobko (formerly also State Comptroller) Baron H. H. Roop, AA Polovtsov (who was also an honorary member of the Imperial Academy Sciences and the Academy of Fine Arts), members of the Governing Senate E. B. Frisch and N. Schreiber. Also honored that evening invitation to the «highest table »dignitaries - honorary trustees of  St. Petersburg facilities of Empress Maria, consisting under the direct patronage of imperial majesty. This time it was: Members of the Council of State MN Galkin-Vrassky and Baron AA Ikskul von Hildebrandt, Actual Privy Councilor Baron AF von Goyningen-Huene and generalmayor FE Baron Meyendorff.

Witte, who was 53 years was probably the youngest of invited to the imperial table. The other guests were people very respectable age. So, example, Galkin-Vrassky received a sign of royal favor gold snuff-box back in 1867, Ikskul Baron von Hildebrandt was «in the service» since 1860,
and Baron Goyningen-Huene general began his career in bloom reign of Nicholas I, is Armorial Hall as Aleksei Ermolov, about whom one can not lead here a few lines, which are Saints him in his memoirs VS Trubetskoy: «Of the notable - GOVERNMENTAL people often dined with his aunt (Countess MD Apraksina. - AK) remember ... frail, gray-haired, ugly old man Ermolov - Minister of Agriculture. Great gastronome and subtle connoisseur of good wine, this apparently rather dry old man to the end of dinner became very witty conversationalist, showing itself as an interesting Narrator »21.At the table were present  two Mistresses of the Empress: Dame (ie, was awarded the Order of St.. Catherine) E. K. Richter, and already mentioned above MM Golitsyn.

During the dinner for all persons of the highest standing (them this evening, there were 30 people), and seats at the table pointed guests of ceremonies. On choruses in the St. George Hall played String orchestra Guards Transfiguration of the regiment, in Alexander Hall - chorus (so called orchestra) of the same regiment, and in Armorial Hall - Choir Guards Grenadier Regiment, as evidenced by the program with a color embossed coat of arms.

After dinner, dancing in the Nicholas Hall renewed. Nicholas II and Alexandra, as usual, left the ball before it ends. They retired to his chamber, saying goodbye with his entourage at the door Malachite Room. Record diary of Nicholas II: «Back to his room 1 1/4 and undressing, snack I have a bit of old »23. Guests continued to have fun, and court ranks: Minister of the court, chief marshal, master of ceremonies and the royal suite, finished his work that is required, as they say, considerable stress, as went to supper. Table are covered in the chambers of the third floor, away from the hustle and bustle associated with the detachment of many guests. The ball ended about three hours. Guests went home the morning.

The next two days after the big ball in the Winter Palace were free of balls. For large ball in the Nicholas Hall was followed by a succession of holidays: performance at the Hermitage Theatre, the ball the Concert Hall of the Winter Palace, which usually invites up to 700 people, and then the Hermitage Ball has a narrow circle of the elect, which happened more than 200.

While Petersburg preparing for the upcoming balls and trying on toilets for elegant reception in the Pavilion Conference of the Small Hermitage, the situation the Far East continued abound. It inevitably went war. January 21, Nicholas II wrote in his diary: «After tea I had a Lamzdorf (Minister Foreign Affairs. - AK) on the Japanese agreement. Dined alone (ie, with Alexandra Feodorovna. - AK). I went to the theatre. There was a "Sleeping Beauty "- excellent, long - not seen »In spite of the tense situation, life in the palace continued to follow the routine. The planned show was held in the Hermitage Theatre 23 January, following the submission of reviews waiting for dinner in the galleries of the museum. Record Tsar  in his diary: «It was a very successful performance at the Hermitage. They gave prologue and 4 of the act of "Mephisto" in which she sang Medea (Figner. - AK), Chaliapin and Sobinov. Dinner ended at 12 pm. ».

Meanwhile, for 22 January meeting of the Japanese Government was decided early military action against Russia, on the night of January 23 they warrant was issued for the landing of the Korean troops and the attack on our squadron at Port Arthur. January 24 Japan officially announced severance of diplomatic relations with Russia. In chamberlain journal noted that the number of receive circular telegram Ministry of Foreign Affairs, announcing the event.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2009, 01:58:59 PM
cont'd

In subsequent days, of course, no celebration. January 25, Nicholas II wrote in his diary: «No news from Far East was not ». Russia in every way trying to avoid war and doing everything for this. The next day the Tsar  wrote: «In the morning I meeting was held on the Japanese question, decided not to by »24. But that evening it was reported that Japanese destroyer attacked our ships, the next morning came a new news of the outbreak of fighting in Port Arthur. 27 noted in the number of chamberlain journal January 1904 a single entry: «The highest number of manifesto declaration of war against Japan. The highest yield to the prayers in Most Church of the Winter Palace with a collection of persons on summons on sending down Russian weapons defeat the enemy. Designated this of ball cancelled »25. Season balls 1904 (leap year) year ended, as, indeed, peaceful life of Russia empire…Ten years was not in the Winter Palace of large balls, but for some time given performances at the Hermitage Theatre and a dinner in the galleries of the Hermitage. Following the announcement of Germany war on Russia on Aug. 1, 1914 all receptions in the palace ceased and Nicholas Hall, like other staterooms of the Winter Palace, was converted into a hospital, wearing name Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich. Follow events in Russia have been too storm in order to preserve the memories of the ball, 1904 which took place nine days before the beginning of Russian-Japanese war.

Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna (1882-1960) - daughter Alexander III.
Grand Duchess Maria Pavlov for, née. The Duchess of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1854-1923) - wife Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich.
Grand Duchess Elizabeth Altenburg, born. Prien process of Saxe-Altenburg (1865-1927) - wife of the great Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich.
Baron Fyodor Egorovich Meyendorff - Adjutant General, Honorary trustee of the St. Petersburg presence of agency facilities Empress Maria, consisting directly under their Imperial Majesty patron. His brother, A. E. Meyendorff, was chief of the Imperial convoy.
Mikhail Galkin, Vrassky - adviser, Secretary of State, member of the State Council on Department of Science and Commerce, a member consist of directly Their Imperial Majesties auspices of the Committee of Trustees on the homes of hard work and workmen homes, Honorary Trustee Saratov behalf of the shelter departments of institutions of the Empress Maria. He was awarded with The Saint. Vladimir 1st century. and St. Anna 1st century., as well as a gold snuffbox (1867) and a portrait of His Imperial HM (1882).
Sergei Witte (1849-1915) - Minister of Finance, August 1903 - Chairman of the Cabinet and then Council of Ministers.
Nicholas Valerianovich Ants - Secretary of State, Actual Privy Councilor, Minister Justice.
Paul L. Lobko - General of Infantry, a member of the State Council, the State Comptroller (the rank of Minister).
Baron Christopher Hristoforovich Roop - Member State Board.
Alexander Polovtsov (1832-1909) - Actual Privy Councilor, State Secretary, a member of the State Council for the department of laws Senator, Honorary Member of the Imperial Academy of Sciences and Academy of Arts, awarded diamond signs of the Order of St.. Al. Nevsky.
Edward V. Frisch - Actual Privy Councilor, member of the Governing Senate, was awarded the Order of St. diamond signs. Andrew Pervozvanniy.
Nikolai Schreyber - Actual Privy Councilor, member of the Governing Senate.
Baron Alexander Al. Ikskul von Hildebrandt (Gildenbandt) - Actual Privy Councilor, Chief
Advisor Department of laws, Senator, a member composed under the direct e.i.v. Empress
Empress Alexandra Feodorovna committee chairmanship guardianship of homes diligence
and workers' homes, an honorary trustee S-Pb presence of co-trustees VETA institutions department of the Empress Maria, the Lord Chamberlain, was awarded diamond signs Order
St. Al. Nevsky (1904).
Baron F. von Goyningen-Huene - real secret Advisor, an honorary trustee of the St. Petersburg presence of the Board of Trustees of Institutions Office of Empress Maria Board Member S-Pb school Order St. Catherine, head of the economic part of the management Children's Hospital of Prince Peter Georgievich Oldenburg.
Elizabeth K. Richter - Grand Mistress Empress empresses, the Order of St. Catherine 2-nd st. Dame.
Her Royal Highness Princess Mary Mikhaylovna Golitsyn - gofmeysterina Empress, Grand Mistress.
Ms. Bompar - the wife of French ambassador.
Ms. McCormick - spouse US ambassador to Russia.
Lady Scott - wife of the British ambassador.
Baroness Aehrenthal - spouse Austro-Hungarian Ambassador.
Alvensleben countess - the wife German ambassador in St. Petersburg.
Count Vladimir Lamzdorf (1844-1907) - Advisor, a member of the State Council, Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Prince Alexander Dolgoruky - Chief Marshal, consisted of the Office of the Ministry Foreign Affairs, Honorary Member Board of Trade and Manufactures, a member of Board of School of Technical Drawing of Baron Stieglitz.
Aleksei Ermolov -- Actual Privy Councilor, Secretary of State, Minister of Agriculture and State. Property.
Baron (from 1913 - Count) Vladimir B. Fredericks (1838-1927) - Adjutant General, General of Cavalry, was listed in the lists of the Life Guards Regiment, the Chancellor of the Empire and Tsarist Russia Orders, the Minister Imperial Court and the principalities and Commander of the Emperor's headquarters.
Count Vasily Alexandrovich Gendrikov (1857-1912) - Ober-days and holidays master of ceremonies, was at EV Empress Alexandra Feodorovna.
Baron Paul P. Korf - Privy Counselor, Master of Ceremonies.
Count Paul K. Benckendorf - Maj. Gen. suite Marshal. The list of his awards is a whole page. Among them St. Anna 1st and 4th century., With the inscription «For courage». He was awarded a gold sword with the inscription «For courage».

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2009, 02:08:53 PM
In identifying the plan with the rooms of tables (see attached page 4):
http://www.mirpeterburga.ru/online/history/archive/45/history_spb_45_3-12.pdf

The lower portion that appears cut off relates to the Nicholas Hall leading to the Malachite with the gallery along the inner courtyard.

The upper leads to the White Hall and the rooms of Maria Alexandrovna facing the palace square - #279 to 304. This shows that the door to the upper balcony of the portico is from #280.

Joanna


Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Condecontessa on September 22, 2009, 09:59:39 AM
Wow!!! What a great post Joanna :). I enjoyed reading it and I actually printed it so I can read it like a book. I enjoyed all the details which painted a great picture. Thank you so much. :)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: imperatrice on September 23, 2009, 04:06:48 PM
For anyone who might be interested I would recommend this excellent book: "The Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg."  It was published in 1994 by Alain
de Gourcoff, Editeur, 18, rue d"Aumale, Paris, IXe: and again in 1995 by the State Hermitage Museum. The preface is written by Mikhail Borisovitch Piotrovsky.
It contains the collection of watercolor portraits of the rooms of the Winter Palace commissioned by Tsar Nicholas I, and completed under Tsar Alexander II. The watercolors of the rooms are fantastic. Both the state rooms and the private rooms of the imperial family are here with a good explanation of the rooms and their decor, in English. There is also an excellent floor plan of the rooms in use as of the reign of Alexander II. For any one interested in how the Romanovs used the Winter Palace this book is a must, but it is expensive.

i just checked bookfinder $503.99
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on October 12, 2009, 12:03:55 PM
Hello Pavlov,

I know I have read bits & pieces about the fire while researching the Winter Palace over the years, but the only details I can remember right now refer to the sections of the palace which both sets of N&As occupied. The one detail that I remember most is (I think!) that the Malachite room was created after the fire.

I have three plans to share, which I just remembered I had on my hard drive, but I can't remember where I found them. It was a Russian site in Russian that had several articles about the history of the Winter Palace. I might have posted a link to this site earlier in this tread, but I might not have either. Sorry for the bad qualities of these plans. I think these are all 1st floor plans, but I'm 100% sure. I also have 1st floor plans for 1836 and 1838, but they are trapped in a book right now. They are from Hermitage - History of Buildings Erections and Architecture, an awkward title translation to be sure! but it is what it is. I'll try and photographs them since my scanner broken, but no promises on how quickly I can post them.

1. WP 1759

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/th_wp1759.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/?action=view&current=wp1759.jpg)

2. WP 1818

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/th_wp1818.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/?action=view&current=wp1818.jpg)

3. WP 1888

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/th_wp1888.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/?action=view&current=wp1888.jpg)

OMG ILY LOL
this is amaazing =]
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on October 27, 2009, 09:40:34 AM
May I ask a question please ? I am sure someone will know for sure.

I am interested to find out if there were doors at the ground floor level leading to the garden, behind the railing which has now, together with the garden, been removed ? If so, what rooms gave acess to the garden ?

Many visitors, including Edward VII, thought the palace very strange because it had hardly any garden, and opened directly onto the street.
I cannot spot anything on the floorplans.

Thanks 
 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 27, 2009, 09:56:40 AM
Well, Pavlosk, as it was a "Winter Palace" there was not much need of a garden, was there?  Plus, they had the great country palaces in which  to explore and entertain themselves. The was also the Winter Garden inside the palace, but I am not sure when that was dismantled.
 However, your question is interesting. Although that garden, such as it was, seemed rather out-of-place facing the vast square, they must have had some sort of access to it.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: rgt9w on October 27, 2009, 11:09:51 AM
Here is a picture of the bomb damage to the winter palace after the assassination attempt on Alexander II.

http://rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/mf_exp/49.shtml
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on October 28, 2009, 07:11:21 AM
Yes, is this  the  "yellow dining room" ?  I wonder where this room was ?  It looks as if it had windows facing a small courtyard. Could anyone point out the room number perhaps on the floorplans ? It was obviously on the 1st floor ( second floor in America), premier etage ? The bomb was placed in the room beneath this one, so the blast came from below, but it must have been a very strong as the rest of the room is badly damaged. I dont think anyone would have survived.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on October 28, 2009, 07:21:42 AM
Well, yes I suppose so. But they must have popped out for some fresh air occasionally. I think the rooms were probably very hot and stuffy in
Winter.
I read somewhere that Nicholas was fond of walking "in the garden" before dinner, when staying in the Palace.. There is an entry in his diary to this effect. Also remember that although this was a  "Winter" Palace, they spent time there when they had to attend ceremonies in St Petersburg, and many of these took place at other times of the year.
 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on October 28, 2009, 07:30:30 AM
PS. Robert, I am almost 100% sure that I read somewhere that the winter garden was dismantled during the renovations made by N & A. I cannot imagine why they removed it. All that was left was the hanging garden between the Palace and the Hermitage of Catherines time. Still there, as you know. 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 28, 2009, 09:10:14 AM
I think you are correct, Pavlosk.  A pity that it was removed at all, but it may have fallen into disuse and needed repair and renovation.  As for the outside garden, it was rather small, as imperial gardens go,  and I imagine it was mainly intended for the children.  Do you, or anyone know when it was installed in the first place? Security must have been a nightmare to look after it.
 The WP itself was a security challenge, especially after the bombing and the assassination of AII.  Alexandra in particular hated the place and it was like pulling teeth to get her to attend anything at all in StP let alone the WP. Even though they had beautiful apartrments there, they were rrely used after  the AP was ready for them.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: xirbis on October 28, 2009, 10:16:05 AM
Dear PAVLOV, there were actually three winter gardens in the WP. Yes , you are correct, one of them (the smallest one) was done away with during the end of XIX century reconstruction (N&A remodeling, if not earlier). There were other two: one overlooking the main courtyard, entrance from the long (Pompeian) Gallery, running along the Neva Enfilade, the other was actually in the building next door, not the WP proper but in the Small Hermitage: the entrance was from the Pavilion Hall, and that winter garden overlooked the Hanging Garden of the Small Hermitage. However, taking into account that SH was actually incorporated into one of the Reserve Apartments WP annexes, we may say that the SH winter garden was the largest of these three.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: xirbis on October 28, 2009, 10:20:08 AM
I think you are correct, Pavlosk.  A pity that it was removed at all, but it may have fallen into disuse and needed repair and renovation.  As for the outside garden, it was rather small, as imperial gardens go,  and I imagine it was mainly intended for the children.  Do you, or anyone know when it was installed in the first place? Security must have been a nightmare to look after it.
 The WP itself was a security challenge, especially after the bombing and the assassination of AII.  Alexandra in particular hated the place and it was like pulling teeth to get her to attend anything at all in StP let alone the WP. Even though they had beautiful apartrments there, they were rrely used after  the AP was ready for them.


I believe it was installed late XIX c., as a part of N&A reconstruction. The wall surrounding the Garden was erected, thus partially dealing with security issues.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: xirbis on October 28, 2009, 10:24:15 AM
May I ask a question please ? I am sure someone will know for sure.

I am interested to find out if there were doors at the ground floor level leading to the garden, behind the railing which has now, together with the garden, been removed ? If so, what rooms gave acess to the garden ?

Many visitors, including Edward VII, thought the palace very strange because it had hardly any garden, and opened directly onto the street.
I cannot spot anything on the floorplans.

Thanks 
 

Well, the Hofburg compound in  Vienna and the Royal Palace in Berlin could not boast about their private gardens either.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: xirbis on October 28, 2009, 10:31:38 AM
well, this "Yellow Dining Room after bombing" does not make any sense to me. It virtually does not fit  ANYWHERE!  Some help, anybody?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 28, 2009, 12:13:08 PM
well, this "Yellow Dining Room after bombing" does not make any sense to me. It virtually does not fit  ANYWHERE!  Some help, anybody?

On the evening of 5 February 1880 Stephan Khalturin, also from Narodnaya Volya, set off a charge under the dining room of the Winter Palace, right in the resting room of the guards a story below. Being late for dinner, the tsar was unharmed; although 11 other people were killed and 30 wounded. The dining room floor was also heavily damaged.

I believe the photo in question is mislabled.  The damage seen in the photo appears to be WW 2 damage of some palace room and not the result of  the bomb damage on a lower floor of the WP in 1880.  Plus the quality of the photo also suggests it is not a photo from the 1880s.

Whoever labled the photo uses the year 1879, calling it the year of the assassination, which is incorrect.  Multiple errors with this photo.

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: G.Michael on October 28, 2009, 11:54:36 PM
I believe the photo in question is mislabled.  The damage seen in the photo appears to be WW 2 damage . . . the quality of the photo also suggests it is not a photo from the 1880s.


I have to agree with this assessment.

As for the location of Alexander II's dining room, I believe it faced a small internal courtyard near the October Staircase and was adjacent to the White Hall and the Golden Drawing Room. On this link, it is -- if I'm not mistaken -- between rooms No. 52 (the White Hall) and 54 (Red Boudoir), and just to the left of room 53 (Golden Drawing Room.)

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm89_0_1.html
 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: rgt9w on October 29, 2009, 07:15:17 AM
I apologize if I posted a link that is not accurate. I thought (wrongly it seems) that the listing was correct since it was credited as coming from GARF at the bottom of the page.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on October 29, 2009, 08:08:57 AM
May I ask a question please ? I am sure someone will know for sure.

I am interested to find out if there were doors at the ground floor level leading to the garden, behind the railing which has now, together with the garden, been removed ? If so, what rooms gave acess to the garden ?

Many visitors, including Edward VII, thought the palace very strange because it had hardly any garden, and opened directly onto the street.
I cannot spot anything on the floorplans.

Thanks 
 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Discussion%20Board/wp1900doorway.jpg)
Pavlov,

Here is a picture from the Russian Photo Archives showing the door from the children's wing on the ground floor (circled in red).  They list the date as 1900.  I'm not sure when the garden fence was constructed, but my guess is it was around the time of the 1905 revolution when N & A were very concerned for safety.  The door leads from a corridor as best I can detect from old plans of the area.  I've never seen plans of exactly what the children's floor looked like in  N & A's time.
BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on October 29, 2009, 08:23:30 AM
Thank you all for your replies. I never realised that there were 3 winter gardens. I suppose that because the palace was so huge they required more than one of everything, as the walking distance would have been a problem.  I wonder where they were, somehow i think they were very far from the private apartments. I cannot find anything on the floor plans.
But I can imagine wanting to have a quiet moment with a book in the winter garden, and having to first walk miles to the library and then to the other side of the palace to the winter garden.  Must have been exhausting. I can imagine the logistical nightmare for the servants if one of the family members had a 'peckish' moment late at night. All those miles of passages ! Perhaps they had smaller kitchens in the private rooms.

However, I would still very much like to know about the exit doors to the private garden on the side of the palace, as per my previous post, and which rooms they exited from.

Many of you have probably seen the movie "Russian Ark; which I find fascinating, and also a DVD which i ordered from the palace Shop 2 years ago. Both are a sort of guided tour of the palace, but I find it very difficult when watching these to piece together the sequence of the rooms.
Particularly because there are so many entrances. The Museum one starts at the Jordan staircase and then enters the room with the carriages, and then the small throne room. I guess one would have to sit there with the floor plan and just mark off the rooms as they come up, to get some sort of idea as to where the guides are heading.
Versailles is a lot easier I find, as the building seems to flow a lot better.

And yes the Winter palace was a security nightmare for the family, especially after the bombing attempt on Alexander II"s  dining room.
I think there were just too many entrances to gaurd, and the result was a feeling of insecurity for everyone who lived there.

There are many city palaces in Europe whic have no gardens to speak of. I think the City Schloss was another example. It does not look as if it had any garden at all.

Edward VII's comments were probably made because he was spoilt by the beautiful private gardens behind Buckingham palace.      

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on October 29, 2009, 08:35:47 AM
Thanks Bob,
A wonderful photo which shows a very different angle of the palace not normally seen. I presume those are stairs leading down to what used to be a garden.
Was this taken before the revolution or after? I seem to think that the railings and garden were removed after 1917. And that the railings were made by the same factory, and to a similar design, as those made for the private balcony at the Alexander Palace. Many people thought they were very unattractive.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on October 29, 2009, 09:52:11 AM
Pavlov,
I did a little checking and found information on the Winter Palace garden on the Hermitage website and learned the garden was fenced in in 1901 and the fence was removed in 1928.
The archives label the photo 1900, and I would not be surprised if this was just before the garden was redone and the fence built as there is nothing in the area (the fountain etc.) and other pictures from the archives show the fence with fairly young trees.

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm88_4_6.html (http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm88_4_6.html)

BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on October 31, 2009, 11:47:40 AM
Concerning a garden entrance, other than the Saltykov Staircase, maybe there was a ground floor entrance/exit like there was on the Neva side? I have a watercolor, c.1820, showing a entrance/exit that would led to the future garden location. Perhaps this was reopened (or never closed) for private access?

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/kunundrum/Romanov/WPc1820.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Amy on October 31, 2009, 05:35:37 PM
I have no idea why the image hosting site re-sized my uploaded image to teeny-tiny, cannot see size. It makes it difficult, if not impossible, to see the door!

I sent  the morning rooting around in my photo file and found another image of what I believe is a photo of Nicholas II's balcony. I must have taken this photo from a book, but I don't remember which book it was. I'm sorry about the poor quality, but on the lower left side, at street level, is an entrance.

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/651/021i.jpg)


 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: RomanovMartyrs on November 20, 2009, 06:28:47 AM
Having read through the first few pages of this thread, I cannot thank the posters enough for their floor plans and maps of the last Tsar's private quarters! I took extensive photography while there and wanted to piece it all together as the Romanovs saw it. Now I can! I'll post the photos to this thread once they're all uploaded and sorted. All the confusion got me thinking- why has no historian drawn up a map of the Winter Palace that labels all the rooms as they were used in Imperial times? Or maybe there is such a map that I haven't yet seen? After having been to the Hermitage twice now, I can say that, though the collection of art is impressive and wonderful...I truly wish they had kept the palace section of the Hermitage as a museum of exactly what it was- a palace. To me, it's a shame to see art from France, or Italy, or Japan, in the place the Tsar's billiard once stood.

Anyway. I look forward to sharing photos. And thanks again so much for the floorplans!!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: RomanovMartyrs on November 20, 2009, 08:18:51 AM
Youtube video featuring photos of all Private Rooms of Nicholas II and some videos. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9cBD8Dm0po
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 20, 2009, 10:30:46 AM
I have no idea why the image hosting site re-sized my uploaded image to teeny-tiny, cannot see size. It makes it difficult, if not impossible, to see the door!

I sent  the morning rooting around in my photo file and found another image of what I believe is a photo of Nicholas II's balcony. I must have taken this photo from a book, but I don't remember which book it was. I'm sorry about the poor quality, but on the lower left side, at street level, is an entrance.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/zzzzzz021i.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 21, 2009, 06:38:13 PM
Information on the changes to the Winter Palace c1925-1926:

For bringing the facades of the Winter Palace to their initial form they dismantled five metallic balconies, attached in the middle XIX v.; the so-called lanterns were removed above both entrances over the palace area; iron enclosures restored on the perimeter of the terraces above the entrances according to old figure. Was at the same time dismantled the ventilation tower above “its own” entrance, built in 1895 g., and the pipes of boiler rooms at the light cavities

Now in the palace proved to be about thousands of hundred fifty in majority their of the isolated accommodations, which are interrupted numerous internal stairs. Re-planning and device of entresol floors by places converted palace from the three-storied into the six-storied. Furthermore, if ceremonial halls and spacious bright rooms on the main facades of the second floor in essence satisfied the destination of exposure accomodations, then outdoor living rooms, bedrooms, boudoirs, drawing rooms composed the isolated blocks, and to use them as the showrooms without the reconstruction was impossible.

The ground floor consisted of many kitchens, pastry. Closets semi-dark with the massive lattices on the windows were intended for the stay of the lowest service personnel. The number of accommodations previously occupied palace offices or apartments of the high ranks.
The third floor of palace with the so-called freylin and kamer rooms resembled hotel with the numbers, located along both sides of dark corridors. Thus, to 1917 g. in the Winter Palace spontaneously was formed the very complicated intricate planning.

Work on the release of palace from the subsequent stratifications conducted more than two years. Were removed all possible additions, stairs, entresol floors, late partitions, different obsolete technical equipment, hydraulic elevators, plates, centers, furnaces, fireplaces. In order to export brick and obstructions of the garbage, which was accumulated in the process of reconstruction, they were required many hundreds of machines and barges.

In the reconstructed buildings, mainly in the Winter Palace, were dismantled more than 4000 sq. m. of mezzanines, are removed more than 10 thousand cu. m laying arches and walls. 1150 halls, habitable and auxiliary accommodations, which were being counted in the Winter Palace in 1925 g., became to 1941 g. 650 halls, galleries and the rooms of museum designation.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on November 23, 2009, 06:15:29 AM
One wonders how much was lost during those removals. It sounds like a missive operation, and of course the Soviets were not known for their sensitivity either. Except perhaps at Pavlovsk and the other palaces, after the war. But there they had experts and sensitive people in charge.

Please could someone tell me this :
The previous magnified photograph of the balcony is great, but which room gave onto it ? Was it Alexandra's corner drawing room ? or one of Nicholas's rooms ? I thought his were further along towards the back, if I have interpreted the floorplans correctly..

Also the door at the bottom left hand corner looks as if it entered into the cellar. Unusual. Could it not perhaps have been a servants entrance ?.I cannot imagine the Imperial Family crawling into a basement.
Could it perhaps have been an incognito entrance / exit  ?   
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on November 23, 2009, 12:46:26 PM
Pavlov,
At the time of N&A the balcony shown would have been accessed through Nicholas' study.

The door probably gave access to the ground floor and the the cellars. It would give access to a variety of guest suites and the children's rooms which were on the ground floor of this wing.  Remember the ground floor was usually used in palaces for bedrooms and other "private" uses.  The cellars would actually be below the ground floor of the palace with the arched windows giving them light.

BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on November 24, 2009, 05:52:59 AM
Thank you, that explains it.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 24, 2009, 10:22:27 AM
Also the door at the bottom left hand corner looks as if it entered into the cellar. Unusual. Could it not perhaps have been a servants entrance ?.I cannot imagine the Imperial Family crawling into a basement.
Could it perhaps have been an incognito entrance / exit  ?

This was the original private entrance for Nicholas I's rooms on the ground floor #17. His bathroom was located on the mezzanine level in the basement and he had installed an exit from the lower level to the garden. It is similar to the basement exits on the Neva side which was used by NII & AF and to the children's rooms.

As the Hermitage is a museum rather than an occupied imperial palace, I believe what was accomplished by Sivkov in 1926 and the preservation by curators through the decades has been an incredible endeavor. Usually we read that the Hermitage has 1150 rooms when the reality is 650 which I had not realized until reading the history of the reconstruction/restoration from the 1920s. To have left everything c1900s would have been a loss as for example the Rastrelli Gallery was a dark corridor with two tiers of more than thirty storerooms and with the removal of the mezzanines etc. by 1938, the beauty of the gallery was revived. Another example is the Saltykov entrance hall which was two mezzanines of small cubbyholes for service personnel. The Hau and Uktomskii watercolors are a dream recreating the palace c1840s-1870s and although we have yet  seen few interior photographs of the personal suites of AII, AIII and NII, there is a research heaven still to peruse in the albums of the imperial family.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on November 25, 2009, 07:08:36 AM
Hi Everyone
The more one delves into the history of the Winter Palace, the more fascinating it becomes.

I never realised that the Rastrelli Gallery was a dark corridor used for storage. One automatically has a negative perception of what the Soviets did to the Palace after 1917.. So it is an eye opener. I think this gallery is a perfect example of Rastrelli's amazing talent as an architect. It remains one of my favourite " rooms' in Russia.  It was obviously designed to impress visitors on the palace, and it sure does.       
 
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 25, 2009, 12:11:45 PM
Pictures from February 1918 showing the sacking of the Winter Palace:
Room belonging to Tatiana
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/palaces/Picture114WPTatianaFeb1918w.jpg)

Tatiana's room on the ground floor is #15 which was the Fourth Reserved Bedroom c1868. You can see the alcove with the pillar where Tatiana had a wardrobe built in the spot. The intricate ceiling decoration has not been preserved but the curved arches are still identifiable.
http://www.arthermitage.org/Edward-Petrovich-Hau/Interiors-of-the-Winter-Palace-The-Fourth-Reserved-Apartment-A-Bedroom.html

The Fourth Reserve Gothic Drawing Room on the ground floor #12 has been preserved, even retaining the scrolls around the doors:
http://www.arthermitage.org/Edward-Petrovich-Hau/Interiors-of-the-Winter-Palace-The-Gothic-Drawing-Room-of-Grand-Princesses.html
The anteroom #11 leading into the Gothic room has been retained intact even to the color scheme:
http://www.arthermitage.org/Edward-Petrovich-Hau/Interiors-of-the-Winter-Palace-The-Fourth-Reserved-Apartment-A-Corridor.html

BobG, thanks for the clarification of the Fifth Reserved on the ground floor. The Second Reserved on the first floor #280 to 273 were the apartments of AII's sons so it was probably here that Alexander & Xenia had their temporary suite c1894 until the move to their palace.

Joanna

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 25, 2009, 02:18:20 PM
Here's another view of the Empire Salon.  I think this is pretty clearly the room in question.  It is definitely room 187.  I think it is hard to tell the shape of these rooms from the photos.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/Empire-Salon.jpg)

The two paintings in the Empire Room bought by Nicholas on January 12th, 1896:
http://www.arthermitage.org/Francois-Flameng/Reception-at-Compiegne.html
http://www.arthermitage.org/Francois-Flameng/Reception-at-Malmaison.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on November 25, 2009, 08:33:37 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/2856742596_272c42e8b3.jpg)

(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/2855912481_7aa8f4cbf4.jpg)Malaquite  Room
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5755/p1050437v.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on November 25, 2009, 09:00:29 PM
This one is a Small Private Room, Perhaps Nicholas I¨s Private Room on the Second Floor
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3812/interiorofthewinterpala.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on November 25, 2009, 09:26:09 PM
(http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/Alexeii-RGD/SalnBlackamoor.jpg)Blackamoor  Room

I Found this Watercolor! of the Blackarmor Room  or "Moorish Room"  next to "The Rotonda"
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6960/themoorishhallthewinter.jpg)


The Rotonda,  1834  Watercolor
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3579/interioroftherotundaint.jpg)




Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 09, 2009, 12:01:06 PM
This one is a Small Private Room, Perhaps Nicholas I¨s Private Room on the Second Floor
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3812/interiorofthewinterpala.jpg)

It is Nicholas I's study/bedroom on the ground floor #17. This link is a floorplan of the Winter Palace/Hermitage that is similar to the one given out to tourists:
http://turist-spb.ru/docs/hermitage_plan.pdf

This bedroom led to stairs to his bathroom on the mezzanine in the basement which was where he had his entrance to the garden. In Nessin's book on the Winter Palace there is a photo of the passage room which gives a clear idea of how the mezzanine was built as there is the curved window which the floor cuts in half.

On the first floor Nicholas I had the room which subsequently was converted into the library of Nicholas II in 1894. He also had a suite on the second floor with #391 Circular Living Room and #390 Study.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 09, 2009, 12:41:42 PM
Another view of the 3rd Room of the War Gallery #285 first floor c1917:

http://www.fotobank.ru/img/P002-1339.jpg?size=l

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Condecontessa on December 09, 2009, 06:33:55 PM
During or after the revolution I suppose considering the rubbish on the floor. :(
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Belochka on December 09, 2009, 07:33:36 PM
This one is a Small Private Room, Perhaps Nicholas I¨s Private Room on the Second Floor
]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3812/interiorofthewinterpala.jpg[/img] (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3812/interiorofthewinterpala.jpg[/img)




Nikolai I died on that simple bed in 1855.

Margarita
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kliutchevsky on December 11, 2009, 09:51:49 AM
This one is a Small Private Room, Perhaps Nicholas I¨s Private Room on the Second Floor
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3812/interiorofthewinterpala.jpg)

It is Nicholas I's study/bedroom on the ground floor #17. This link is a floorplan of the Winter Palace/Hermitage that is similar to the one given out to tourists:
http://turist-spb.ru/docs/hermitage_plan.pdf

This bedroom led to stairs to his bathroom on the mezzanine in the basement which was where he had his entrance to the garden. In Nessin's book on the Winter Palace there is a photo of the passage room which gives a clear idea of how the mezzanine was built as there is the curved window which the floor cuts in half.

On the first floor Nicholas I had the room which subsequently was converted into the library of Nicholas II in 1894. He also had a suite on the second floor with #391 Circular Living Room and #390 Study.

Joanna
Thank you very much Joanna!!!  Fantastic  your link!!!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on December 14, 2009, 04:09:39 PM
Accordin to this article,furniture that once belonged to Alexandra Feodorovna( the last empress ) of the the  Silver room of the Winter Palace designed by Nabokov, and which had been sold to the revolution could return to the Hermitage.

The Hermitage said he was interested in buying selling this batch of  furniture chairs chairs, tables classic, the sell takes place in Finland.

http://saint-petersburg.ru/m/232085/weschi_posledney_russkoy_imperatritsy_mogut_wernutysya_iz.html&usg=ALkJrhizUidYIiqjpC-IKv9jKdH0NfBW_g
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:09:10 PM
For any here that are interested, I have done a translation of this article that relates to the history of the Winter Palace bathrooms including NII's swimming bath, lighting and elevators. On page 75 of the Russian pdf there is a drawing of NII's swimming bath and on page 79 a drawing of an elevator although whether the one at Saltykov I am not sure or it could be Commandant:
http://www.mirpeterburga.ru/online/history/archive/28/history_spb_28_67-81.pdf

For 150 years, the Winter Palace was the residence of the Russian monarchs, symbolizing the power of its luxury empire. On the front side of the life of the royal residence and the richest collection of the Hermitage there is an enormous literature. However, there was another side to the life of the vast palace, which does not flaunt it. The Winter Palace was not only the front seat, but also a place in the lives of most of the royal family and its numerous environments. To ensure the proper comfort it was necessary to keep your network engineering related to water supply, lighting, sanitation and heating a large building. This side of life is also part of the history of the Winter Palace, and also deserves a separate story. The most important part of engineering networks of the palace was running water.

During the building design a unified system of water supply was not provided. But it is safe to assume that while the water in the kitchen, bath pumped through kakogoto mechanism. At least in the documents is recorded that in the bath complex, built in 1785 in the Marble Palace, to provide water baths and a swimming pool was installed the machine, which is "to bring water from the bottom (1). About presence of such a machine in the Winter Palace, the data indicate 1820h years on a wooden vessel of 4000 buckets, built by the attic of the palace.The water in it pumped special steam engine. It should be noted that were unable to find archival documents that would help determine when it was installed the tank, as well as determine whether there were other places like the Palace tanks (2). This wooden vessel was only known from the materials associated with the fire of 1837, as water to extinguish the fire were taken from this tank, which in the beginning of the fire had filled with water.

After a fire in 1837 that destroyed much of the palace, it was necessary, along with the state rooms and restore utilities. In 1838 the palace was laid a unified system of water supply. The basement was once installed a steam engine, which specifically laid pipe pumped water in the Neva three lead tanks, which were in the attic of the Winter Palace. From these reservoirs water by gravity from lead pipes come in bathrooms and kitchen. Water is not subjected to special purification, solutions because Neva while still cope with the growing waste Petersburg. Water intake of the Neva River was defended only by a special beam, designed more to protect it from mechanical damage (3).

However, at 1840h years of the cholera epidemic in St. Petersburg have become regular, which was due to a sharp deterioration in quality of drinking water. Since the summer of 1848 in the lower floor of the Winter Palace had to deploy a cholera hospital (4), in November the same year on the personal instructions of Nicholas I was introduced constant monitoring of water "through chemical decomposition. For testing established a special commission, which included well-known physicians, headed by managing part of the court medical Y. Willi. The analysis revealed the absence of water, lead, copper and other harmful impurities. Despite this, at the insistence leybmedika A. Marcus raised the issue of replacing lead Reser vuarov and pipes of iron (5). But, apparently, a complete replacement has not was carried out, and lead pipes and tanks, installed in the Winter Palace in 1838, continued to operate. Periodically, doctors medical part of the court drew water from the reservoir for analysis. They had been established as a regular procedure, weekly cleaning of the entire system of water supply to the palace. Once a week, at night, all the water coming down from the tanks into the Neva, and then thoroughly rinsed containers. Moreover, at the end of 1840h's in the Winter Palace were installed water-purifying machines (6).

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:10:54 PM
cont'd

At some piece, these measures helped to ensure proper sanitary requirements, but the city grew rapidly, and water quality continued to deteriorate. In July 1862, 35 people of lower ranks leybgvardii Izmailovsky regiment, carrying the guard duty the palace, suddenly fell ill. As the main causes of mass disease was considered and the version of the Neva tainted water. Although tests have not revealed no abnormalities in its composition, it was decided to completely replace all lead pipes in the iron (7). At the same time the network has the Winter Palace was extended due to its connection to the reservoirs of the New Hermitage and Quay Pavilion {8}.

In 1868, the Winter Palace tkazalis from the use of the Neva water for drinking and cooking. The main reason for this move was a sharp deterioration in its quality. For these purposes have started to use the water that got through the public water network, as it was subjected to purification (9). This Nevsky intake was maintained and even upgraded. Pumped through it neva water was used for various household needs (10). By the 1860m-year practice of chemical analysis of water in the palace became a tradition. But changing the political situation around the palace had already dictated the other reasons for the analysis of the water.

And above all, it was the safety of the imperial family. After the explosion in the Winter Palace in February 1880, organized by S. Khalturina appeared reasonable suspicion of a possible attempt to poison the water in the tank of the palace. The grounds of this was due to the fact that many of the People arrested during the searches were discovered various poisons, which are also intended to be used in the revolutionary struggle. In this regard, the Minister of the Imperial Court sent in early March 1880 order of the court administrator to conduct the medical part of the chemical analysis of water in the main tanks of the Winter Palace and the analysis of air in the private apartments of the imperial family. It order was classified as "secret", and it emphasized that the tests should be conducted at least once a week. The first analysis of water was taken March 8, 1880 year. He showed that in the water "not found any mineral and organic poisons (11).

The day after the death of Empress Maria Alexandrovna, in May 1880 the Chief Pharmacist Gross requested permission to end the testing of water in the palace. In response, Minister of the Imperial Palace quite sharply replied that he saw no reason to stop testing, and considers it useful to do the same studies and in Tsarskoe Selo (12). Of particular relevance of the problem of sanitary control acquired at the end of XIX century in connection with the general deterioration of health well-being of St. Petersburg. General health status even in the court administration was so bad that sometimes leads to tragedy, directly affecting the prestige of the imperial family. After the traditional formal dinner, arranged for the Knights of St. George in Winter Palace November 26, 1895, killing 63 people, and the sick "were dying so quickly, others so quickly in algidnuyu form that ... they did not even manage to interview "(13). Was immediately formed a commission, headed by leybmedik FA Roschinin. Members of the committee visited all the rooms of the Winter Palace, where the arrival of a Knight of St. George was scrutinized by the water all taps of the palace. The analysis allowed to exclude it as a factor of infection "although she gave a great analysis of the percentage of organic matter. The Commission concluded that the cause of the tragedy have been fish food served at the festival, cooking method which could not withstand "the most condescending criticism. In the fish kept the fish poison, but it was revealed "cholera poison, burning cholera epidemic in St. Petersburg.

Another important part of everyday life of the Winter Palace were bathrooms and saunas. In the XVIII century, "taking bath" could be accompanied by the reception of visitors, as it has been bathing in the sheet. Typically, these were luxury rooms, included in a series of grand palace interiors, with elaborate decoration. In autumn 1762 - spring 1763 under the direction of the architect Allen Delamot under the church lectern, on the mezzanine of the ground floor of the Winter Palace, near the private apartments of Catherine II began construction of a vast royal baths, which consisted of three rooms. For descriptions of 1790h's in a sauna complex included: swimming pool (now the room number 272); a large church sacristy (room number 701) was a toilet and directly under the altar - a vast bath with pool. In the pool covered with cloth, pale-yellow color, could descend on a small wooden ladder from the private apartments of the empress. These premises overlooking the Palace Square and the Million-street (14).

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:11:48 PM
cont'd

Later, in 1788-1793, respectively, under the direction of IE Starova apartments near future Alexander I in the Winter Palace, began construction of a new bath with a carefully conceived layout. It is housed in the corner rooms looking out on the Saltykov entrance and the Admiralty. In the first corner room (room number 17) was screened off place "for the luggage of things. Then followed a complex configuration with thickened walls soap (room number 18) and a great swimming Prince (hall № 19-20), which was placed in the center of an oval pool. By bathing soap and adjoining utility room, one of them (room number 411, North part), a large oven, heated soap, in the other boilers for heating water for the pool (room number 411, South) (15).

In 1816, architect L. Rusca thorough rebuilt this bath. Apparently, this was due to changes in hygiene in high society. In place of ablution and rubdown comes classical Russian steam bath, which was arranged by the pool. The document mentions that the carpenter Ivan Kopachev obshil steam room linden tree (16). All these premises were destroyed by fire in December 1837 year. In resumed palace in the new interiors are traditionally paid much attention to the grand bathrooms. They described and demonstrated. Thus, half of the Empress Alexandra Feodorovna - Nicholas I's wife architect Briullov was constructed bathroom (room number 670) in the style of Moorish Spain architecture. At watercolors E. Hau visible luxurious room, with one wall was a marble bath with two cranes. In the description of the renewed Winter Palace of the premises referred to this as a small room "around 13.5 yards in length and not more than six in breadth," which focuses "the entire luxury Grenada Moors, with a marble bathroom depth beneath the mirror where from Crane "beating crystal key hot or cold water, first in a huge shell, and from it cascades to the bathroom "(17). Expenditure on the construction of this bath were separately and cost the treasury 42 000 rubles (18).

It should be noted that if the bathroom Empress has traditionally been included in the series of grand palace interiors, then Nicholas I, who was distinguished by extreme unpretentious in their daily lives, bathroom was much more modest. Actually, it was a "swimming projectile", equipped in 1854 "in the closet" in the Emperor's study (19), located on the third floor of the palace in the projection by Northwest. Until we reached a rare picture of the "swimming projectile, which is visible copper tub with painted her two taps for hot and cold water.

In the complex of private apartments of his wife of Alexander II - Empress Maria Alexandrovna between the dressing room (room number 168) and the Empress's bedroom (room number 307) located bathroom (room number 345). These facilities were completed at the time of her marriage to Prince,
Alexander Nikolayevich in April 1841. It is noteworthy that the bathroom of the element of the ceremonial interior turns into a purely intimate room, every day is demand, as evidenced by its location - between the bedroom and bathroom. This was largely due to the changing perceptions of hygiene standards. Bathroom was a miniature building, which, along with a sofa and fireplace was a white marble bathroom (20). At the same time for the future Emperor Alexander II was arranged bath on his living half (21).

Equipment periodically come into disrepair, and in that period, the palace plumbers used a lot of work. In 1854, they repaired the bath at half Empress (22), in 1856, luxury bath, established in 1841, broke, and it had to change to a new and innovating along the way all the pipes for Water supply (23).

A bathroom equipped premises, not only CEOs, but also support personnel. Thus, in Freylinskom corridor were constructed, two bathrooms - big and small. According to inventories in a big bathroom walls were upholstered in chintz, the floor was a rope mat, soft sofa, upholstered in chintz, wall mirror and a rectangular table (24).

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:12:54 PM
cont'd

Very fond of baths, Emperor Alexander III. In the palaces, where he lived, the sauna was necessary supplies. In 1879, the Winter Palace for him specifically was equipped with its own bath (25). King порусски very fond of steam in the company personally pleasing to him. He horoshoponimal that you can "treat bath", and loved to talk about it, well reading all the subtleties of the "treats".

In 1895, when the palace began work on the equipment of the private apartments of Nicholas II and his family, they were also provided with a bathroom with a pool, which was located in the western part of the palace, between the northwestern projection in the facade and Saltykovsky staircase. In redesigning the space was saved only memorial room of Nicholas I. In January 1895, Nicholas II wrote in his diary: "Our future apartment in the Winter shrug, Alix and I take an active part, interfering in every detail" (26). For January 1, 1896, he wrote in his diary: "... rinse with pleasure in my bath and then sat down for coffee intolerable telegrams" (27). At this time the bathroom as part of the ceremonial interior finally disappearing.

As a historian, wrote of St. Petersburg PN Stolpyansky: "If under Nicholas I, a bath is truly a work of arhitektorahudozhnika, that of Nicholas II, this bath has become a normal, inherent in a good tone bathroom" (28).

But already in 1898, the royal pool was capitally rebuilt. In May of that year was estimated at "reconstruction of the marble basin" in the amount of 13 083 rubles. Estimate signed palace architect Kramskoy. She anticipated an increase size of the pool. Length of sides of the square basin is about 4 meters (5 yards 8 inches) and depth - 165.5 cm (2 feet 5 inches).

Accordingly, increased tanks for hot and cold water. In addition, the ventilation system was improved pool. The main contractor acted plant San Galli. Since the pool was located on the mezzanine of the first floor northwest projection in the facade, then after the dismantling of the old pool in the capital walls were strengthened new metal beams. Then was constructed of reinforced concrete impervious cover, which is tiled in marble (29). As we already mentioned, the Winter Palace was not only an imperial but a purely domestic story. Including such an intimate, as the "toilet". Neither the pre-revolutionary, nor in the Soviet literature, devoted to the history of the construction of the Winter Palace, made no mention of the development of its sewerage system. Recently, these issues as part of the everyday consumer stories, scholars have also begun to be affected.

Special toilet, in today's sense, in the XVIII century was not. The fact that the list of palace chambers called "latrines" or "bath" apartments, intended for the "hat" person, hairstyles, etc. It was a place where, after sleeping brush up before going to a stranger. Thus, the wife of Emperor Paul I - Empress Maria Feodorovna has described his own dressing-room in the Grand Pavlovsk Palace: "Dressing room is very beautiful shape, rounded corners, the walls decorated with stucco, vault ceiling, painted in a bower of roses, whitewashed walls with views and frames of roses, very beautiful pictures door ... white lacquered furniture, a toilet made of steel, works in Tula, two beautiful chest of drawers "(30).

In the toilet of the Empress Maria Feodorovna was also a table with a glass washing basin, on which stood a graceful water jug. In the second half of XVIII century in England have begun to develop combined household items furniture, equipped with a sink with tap and slide out the bottom bidet. In the extant description of the dressing room of Alexander II the Great Catherine Palace of Tsarskoe Selo is mentioned and a small chest of drawers near the couch, "with hinged top lid, akryvayuschey humble porcelain washing device (31). In the Winter Palace in the office of Alexander II and was "a mahogany bidet with a lid (32). In the late 1880s in the dressing room of Alexander III in the Winter Palace, together with a dressing table with three drawers, and washing was a big mahogany table with a board made of white marble, with two drawers and the "machine" for towels. The list of items recorded and large quadrangular bidet on rollers, with china à living and gubnitsey (33).

For intimate need meant the vessel and chamber pot. Habitual their location - a bedroom or small office room. "The ship" inventory called different things - in the form of "chest of drawers" or "locker", which were placed in glass faience or "pots or glasses urinalnye" male and female (34). Under Catherine II in the Winter Palace to any sewage system was not there. In the apartments of the empress herself had arranged a special "closet". According to legend sustained, brought AV Suvorov, of Warsaw, the Polish throne of kings - the national shrine of Poland - on the order of the Empress was converted into a stool with a broken hole in the center of the throne (35). We can confidently say that the beginning of the sewerage system was laid in the kitchen of the palace complex. In this case, apparently, sewage dumped directly into the Neva River, downstream from the palace intake. From the documents it is known that in the kitchen were "wooden machine with cast iron drums and weights for the purification of air ... the machine to drain dirty water ... schikiholodilniki with brass valves for storage of ice" (36). By the beginning of the XIX century sewage system was already an integral part of the palace kitchens.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:13:52 PM
cont'd

The sewage disposal system in the Winter Palace was constructed during his recovery after a fire in 1837. The estimate is allocated to the restoration of the palace, were laid special funds for the "unit of water pipes and water closet" in the amount of 80 000 rubles (37). But since even before the fire of 1837 in the basement was a machine for pumping water into a wooden vessel, one can assume that these water supplies used for the needs of the local sewage system, which could be arranged in the housing projection of the imperial family. Such "local" improvements quite fit into the history of the palace. To support the new engineering systems at the palace in 1840 created a special "artisans company", which included maintenance of water mains and car vaterklozetnoy number of "master, journeyman, two workmen and two apprentices" (38). The solution to this problem was vital, because the custom of Russian monarchs were numerous receptions and balls, and free customs of the XVIII century were no longer run. Apparently, this delicate problem was solved not only at the level of everyday life of the inhabitants of the Winter Palace, but at the level of many thousands of palace receptions. Baron AI Delvig recalled that the New Year's ball in 1832 was attended by 22 346 invitees (39).

It is safe to say that in 1840h years this delicate issue has been solved vaterklozetnoy machine and palace plumbing. However, in the living rooms of the palace continued to be, and the usual nightly "cupboard". In the "attic above kamerdinerskoy room" in the private apartments of Alexander II means "cupboard overnight ash tree on one door with a box" (40).

Ibid emperor could wash their hands in the washroom cabinet mahogany two-door with a box with lift top lid, with no back wall "(41). In the bedroom of Empress Maria Alexandrovna also refers to "the cupboard the night" rosewood tree with odnoyu door, with iron plates inserted in the upper part and the panels of which are painted a turtle in the style of Boulle (42). The inventory indoor property at half of Alexander III in 1888 meant "night mahogany cupboard with a single compartment with a door and with a board of white marble for 175 rubles." (43). It is interesting that, apparently, those items of daily use were bought lots and were placed on different premises. Thus, when the Swiss in the doorway of his Majesty also means "shkafiknochnoy with a board of white marble, wrought in marble" for the same 175 rubles.

One of the central places in the engineering infrastructure of the Winter Palace, occupied by the heating system. For a long time the only type of heating of the palace were stoves, fireplaces and small Taganka. At the beginning of construction of the palace were drafted drawings 17 fireplaces. They were ordered in Italy from kararskogo marble and in 1758 delivered at the Winter Palace (44). Since the heating system, which was supposed to heat the great palace, was used very intensively, then it is periodically updated.

Thus, in 1827 around the furnace Quarenghi because of their dilapidated replaced with new ones. But a year later, during the next repair rooms heir, Grand Duke Alexander Nikolaevich, O. Montferrand was ordered to disassemble just installed a new furnace and re-establish the round furnace Quarenghi (45). Apparently, this is dictated by only a habit to a certain appearance of the palace halls. The intensive use of multiple stoves in the royal palaces in the harsh winters and disorderly adjustment of the palace halls led to the catastrophic fires. Evening Dec. 17, 1837 at the Winter Palace was on fire, which has finally put out only to 20 December. According to eyewitnesses, the glow could be seen for 50-70 miles from St. Petersburg. After a disastrous fire from the palace, leaving only the exterior walls, part of the internal main walls, vaulted ceilings of cellars and some vaulted ceilings on the first floor (46). Already 29 December 1837 a commission was set for the resumption of the palace. Despite the terrible destruction, March 25, 1839 the dedication took place Grand Palace Church and the entire renewal of the palace.

This Nicholas I personally observed the progress of work, asking an incredibly high rate vosstanovitelnyhrabot. All design drawings examined and approved by Nicholas I, who has repeatedly intervened in the ready-made design solutions. Given the tragedy, during the restoration of the palace furnace heating was replaced with a forced-air heating, developed by engineer Nikolai Ammosov. In "device pneumatic heat "in the estimates was laid 258 000 rubles (47). New furnace in its design have been installed in the barracks of the Pavlovsky Regiment leybgvardii in 1835. There, these furnaces are proven, and conventional furnace heating after a terrible fire, caused distrust. On behalf of the Commission on the resumption of the Winter Palace, the famous chemist G. Hess, who taught at the Technology Institute, conducted a comprehensive examination of pneumatic kiln construction NA Ammosova.

According to the designer, examination was extremely thorough and cantankerous. The result was prepared conclude that his furnace are harmless to health (48). In the cellars Palace were installed 86 air furnaces. In the Winter Palace was placed 55 large and 29 small furnaces. Two large ovens were placed in the Hermitage under Raphael boxes and two small ovens - in the Court of businessmen. Heated air is heated up the "Zharov" channels in the state rooms and living rooms. Places Released heating channels ended in copper bars on Duszniki made to the drawings of architect Stasov. We engineer Ammosova preserved drawings of the heating system, on which stood a "visa" Minister of the Imperial Court - The highest approved April 10, 1838 "(49).

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:14:43 PM
cont'd

Interestingly, at the insistence of Ammosov Stasov tried to make changes to the design of furnaces in 1839. Thus metal pipes have been replaced by clay, but finding that they are very slowly heat the air and enhanced firebox crack and allow the smoke, he returned to the metal tube (50).

In the spring of 1839 stoves and fireplaces remained in the Winter Palace, mainly as a familiar element of the state rooms (51). Pneumatic device for furnaces in the Winter Palace N. Ammosov was awarded a gold medal and received 1500 acres of land along with the personal approval of Nicholas I, the quality of the furnace in its design. In the palace "artisan company" the largest state spetsalistov was busy just to maintain the heating system. Stove and fireplace business engaged in the palace "master and two apprentices, eight Pechnikov and six students." Pipe case involved "a master, journeyman, three pipe manufacturers and two students." Cleaned the pipes "master and two apprentices, chimney sweeps, twelve and seven students (52).

But in "ammosovskoy" the heating system had its drawbacks. Already in the early years 1840h view was that these furnaces overdry air, that is injurious to health. Apparently, in connection with the design of furnaces N. Ammosova invited to the Winter Palace in March 1841, where he measured the humidity in all the palace premises. This abnormality was identified, and tables of measurements of moisture were published. Nonetheless, these rumors were very tenacious, as an official of the Ministry of Imperial Household VS Krivenko in the notes mentioned that the majestic Winter Palace "absolutely not suited for private life. Alexander II, emphysema patient, suffering from amosovskogo heating, much of the dry heated air from poor ventilation, air vents in the bedroom of his ill-shut at night room vystyvala "(53). Therefore, since 1863 in the Winter Palace begins to set up a new, local, heating system, which was completed by mid-1870h period. In it were based on "ognevozdushnye furnace" design IK Krol and Smirnov. In the mid-1880s in the Winter Palace, work began on the third installation of the local heating system.

It was a system of water heating. To do this in one of the internal light yards west of the Winter Palace was built boiler. And on the roof of the palace, for the optical telegraph tower over "its own entrance, was built wind-tower, which has made a significant discordance in the usual architectural appearance of the palace. Thus, by 1917 at the Winter Palace in parallel there have been three technically different heating systems are not integrated into a single network. From 1840h years in the Winter Palace operated pneumatic kiln NA Ammosova, heated most of the palace. In the 1860-1870h years created a local system "ognevozdushnyh furnaces" for the private apartments of Emperor Alexander II, who suffered from asthma, and his wife - Empress Maria Alexandrovna, bolevshey tuberculosis. Since the late 1880s Northwest corner block of the Winter Palace and the New Hermitage building heated by a central water heating system, created by an engineer Wynn.

Along with other engineering services and changing the lighting system of the Winter Palace. Throughout the pre-revolutionary history of the Winter Palace illuminated by candles. There were certain standards of "Candle allowance, dependent on the status of persons and persons living in the palace.

Thus, in 1826, three maids of honor were given a day 8 Candles. Of these "ordinary white" -- 4 pieces, yellow night - 1 piece, 3 pieces of the sebaceous (54). Tallow candles were not fragrant, and therefore they were used in the utility room of the palace or duty night lighting. After the sumptuous balls in them and arranged the room tallow candles "in tin, long, filled with water candlesticks" (55). Wax candles used in homes, during dances and other ceremonies, but they were short-lived, as quickly guttering and had to be replaced frequently. In memoir evidence, in the XVIII century palace during the holidays, in order to highlight the huge halls were built in addition special pyramid on which the "three thousand candles of white wax (56). During the repair work in the Winter Palace after a fire in 1837, it was envisaged increase in the number of candles in the chandeliers (57). In order to expedite the procedure for replacing the chandeliers in the hundreds of candles used special tin tube with a spring-loaded bottoms to facilitate the extraction of candle ends. The principal means of lighting the candles were in the Winter Palace before 1860h period. French writer Theophile Gautier, describing a ball at the Winter Palace in 1860, left one of the recent description of their use: "... countless candles stood in Kandy lyabrah the eaves ... entire streams of light filled the vast hall as if by magic" (58).

Later, despite the shift to gas lighting, and then to electric lighting, the palace continued to be widely used candles. According to the inventory treasury of things that were half of Alexander II, in each of the rooms have chandeliers and lamps with candles. Typically, these were twin candelabra, each of which was from four to seven cones. Directly in the office of Emperor was couple candelabra of seven trumpets. If chandeliers were all rooms, a chandelier with candles only some of them. Thus, of the eight residential premises of the Emperor chandeliers, equipment percentage of surveyed under the wax candles, were only four (59). In this way lit room was the reception, which can burn 72 candles. Next came the library - 48 candles, cabinet - 38 candles and training - 36 candles.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:15:29 PM
cont'd

In the early years 1860h replaced candles come gas jets. For the first time the issue of their installation in the Winter Palace stood in 1850h years in the construction of the New Hermitage. But the suggestion of the architect Ludwig Klenze the installation of gas lamps in the halls of the museum was rejected by Nicholas I because of the possibility of fire. January 31, 1851 the king approved the plan for coverage of the New Hermitage, consisting of 9 thousand 949 chandeliers with candles (60). It was a huge "hozyastvo", so to maintain good order and services in the "artisan company" Winter Palace employed 12 people "in roofing, lamp and tube business.

In the spring of 1861 has started equipping the organizational preparations for the Winter Palace, gas lighting. May 25, 1861 obergofmarshal Shuvalov sent prescription Winter Palace manager engineer generalmayoru Cuba develop project lighting palace gas "portholes". For June 18, 1861 Cuba said Count Shuvalov on the tender, which was attended by two contractors - Prussian citizen inzhenermehanik Louis Zaps and some GIs Shishko. Palace "Generals of the cutlets" tried to take money, so the general obergofmarshala Cuba drew attention to the fact that the project Zapsa more beneficial, since I had to do court administration in 4960 rubles, 6200 rubles against Szyszko. From the project Zapsa indicated that he agrees "to make ... a good spot with all possible savings.

All he intended to set the burner at the palace in 1670, of which daily expected to use 554 burners. Given the potential gas explosion, Zapsom were developed strict rules for the use of gas equipment in the Winter Palace. According to them, to smenulampovschikam came lamplighters. Keys that open the valves of gas burners were made as time to "no one could have without a key to open the valves of burners. Moreover, for each "race" gas pipes had a special key. Key to the main switchboard of the gas valve was only in Zapsa. Gas lighting was supplied to the palace Petersburg gas company. Indications about used up gas were measured once a month, and payment for it made every three months. All Zapsa were adopted in November 1861, and the contract was signed with him for three years. It is noteworthy that for Zapsom an eye. In November 1861 "for constant supervision" of the gas lighting was appointed lieutenant sluzhitelskoy team Winter Palace Efimov (61).

The newspapers mentioned that the gas jets "special improvement" produced an extraordinary effect, highlighting the main rooms of the palace. But along with gas jets continued to use candles. The photograph of the Cabinet of Empress Maria Feodorovna, made in mid-1870h, respectively, at her table, we see two candelabra on the two candles. To contain the gas industry in the manner it was quite troublesome affair. In addition, there were problems and hygienic nature.

Thus, in private rooms suffer from asthma Emperor Alexander II gas lighting was not used at all, and the inventory items appear only under the chandeliers and candelabra candles. In the first half of the 1880s in the Winter Palace begins to form a system of electric lighting. It should be noted that Alexander III actively encouraged the holding of electric lighting in the Gatchina Palace back in 1881. These papers dealt Lieutenant Smirnov, who commanded the detachment moryakovminerov sent to the palace to prevent the possible undermining and explosions. Alexander III personally interested in these works, repeatedly listening to the reports of a sailor (62). Nevertheless, this innovation has not led to complete elimination of the old lighting fixtures.

Were phased out only the gas jets. Therefore, the electric light and light candles side by side in the Winter Palace until 1917. For the first time in the Winter Palace system of electric lighting, mounted engineer of the palace administration VL Popov, was tested in 1885 for the Christmas holidays. Work began in September 1884. It was supposed to arrange the electric lighting in Pompeevskoy Gallery and in the garden of the Hermitage Pavilion. Work on the installation of lights and wiring were assigned to the company "Siemens". Supposed to feed the bulbs from two locomobiles, each of which was designed for 40 bulbs. Sadiq Hermitage pavilion was covered by ten frosted crystal lamps, which were delivered to a glass factory. Somewhat later a similar project was implemented in Elagin palace. On the implementation of this project was spent just over 11 000 rubles.

The novelty was impressed at the capital's beau monde, and it was decided to reduce the cost for the purchase of the Winter Palace own portable engine (63). At one of the balls in 1887, broke 12 000 incandescent lamps. In early 1888 the project engineer VL Popov was built in the small courtyard of the New Hermitage stationary electric power station in DC. Six years later, architect A. Krasovsky built a small power plant is already at an alternating current in the courtyard of the Hermitage Theater, which provided coverage of the auditorium and foyer of the theater. This plant existed until 1945, then was pulled down.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:17:31 PM
cont'd

New electric chandeliers and sconces, part of which was produced from drawings by architect R. Melzer, were richly decorated with crystal pendants. At the huge bronze chandelier in the grand halls have been installed bulbs, stylized under the candle. A photograph of George Hall, made from the gallery, well visible these "electric candles". At the press describes a ball at the Winter Palace in 1890, mentioned that apart from "the chandeliers and candelabra illuminates the halls curb of 1000 bulbs, which circled the top of the rails chorus ... Tropical garden illuminated from above the moonlight like a matte high electric lamp (64).

Based on the inventory of the rooms of Alexander III, compiled in 1888, we can conclude that by this time gas lighting system was completely dismantled. But at the same time, along with electric lighting, continued to be used and the usual candles. The electric chandeliers acting as the overall lighting, and chandeliers with candles - an intimate, local. All fourteen private rooms of Alexander III in the Winter Palace were equipped with electric chandeliers. But the number of bulbs in them was different. Most rooms chandeliers were installed at shestvosem bulbs. The largest chandelier - 30 bulbs - was in the office of Alexander III. Thus under the candle chandeliers are not as bulky. Number of horns on them down to trehchetyreh. In purely personal space - in the dressing room and bathroom - was a small chandelier at six lights and a modest brass sconces two horns (65).

When Nicholas II lived in the Winter Palace after his marriage to Alice of Hesse, in their living rooms all the wiring has been completely updated. In their private apartments of the prevailing local, intimate lighting. On the walls were numerous sconces with glass and cloth caps, performed in modern style. On the tables were also a massive electric lamps. However, the candles still were in daily use, because the photographs electric lamps continued to coexist with candelabra. Lighting kerosene lamps used mainly in pridvornosluzhitelskih homes.

Important place in the daily life of the palace occupied by lifting machines. Lifts for lifting people have been used in Europe in the XVII century. Their inventor can be considered a member of the Paris Academy Vilaera, who designed the first elevator to the palace complexes of Louis XIV. Installed in the palaces of Paris and Versailles "flying chairs" were very popular among European aristocracy, but after several accidents this fashion gradually faded away (66). Popularity preserved only the machinery for recovery laid tables during a private dinner. Such machines have appeared in Russia during the reign of Peter I in suburban dvortsahpavilonah.

These machines have been installed in the Winter Palace in 1770h, respectively. However, in 1795, much older Catherine II ordered to pay in the living quarters are the Hermitage Rooms, where the lifting machines and Standpipe floor (67). Since the submission of our standard of living changed. Technique becomes more reliable. Front Jordan Staircase was indispensable for the magnificent palace receptions, but in everyday life rise to the third floor of the palace for the elderly and often not very healthy people require considerable effort. As always in the palaces importance attached to everyday conveniences, the Winter Palace reappear "lifting machine".

By the beginning of the XIX century there were several designs of elevators. For low-rise buildings, with the rise of "cradle" on two floors were used screw lifting machines with manual transmission.

Nuts were installed on the bottom of the lift cabin, and the lifting screw passed through the entire height of the elevator shaft. The second type were lifts, which were not limited Floors. Hoisting mechanism located at the top of the shaft and could be operated a variety of lift system (manually, hydraulic, gas, kerosene, motor). The third type of lifts are hydraulic pistons, also fixed to the bottom of the lift cabin.

Their design features was that the hydraulic mechanisms "lift" located in the basement. Before the fire of 1837, the Cabinet of Emperor Nicholas I was in the northwestern projection of the Winter Palace, on the third floor, where there was a living half the emperor, over Empress Alexandra Feodorovna. Near ladder was installed at 1820h years "lifting machine" that connects all three floors. This arrangement was made at Kolpino plant. At the same time in the Emperor's study door with a vestibule to "lift" has been solved in a "cabinet". It was very typical of the king of interior solutions. Similarly, in the closet, was removed and bathing shell "of the emperor. Ruling person is not neglected facilities, but since the appearance of technical innovations and household clash with the prevailing view of the imperial cabinet, they tried to hide in the cupboards.

After a fire in 1838 installed a new elevator, designed inzhenerpolkovnikom AA Fullonom. In the "lift" its design foot screw was attached to the bottom platform, and advanced design operated on the principle of vertical piston. The very cradle was made of mahogany with brass bars, door and handrails. Inside was a chair of mahogany, upholstered in red morocco. Machine operable by hand. Special gear transferred movement to the screw lift machines, which will reduce the "push" platform with a cradle.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:18:56 PM
cont'd

According to the project in 1838 "gig" tied not three, but only the lower two floors of residential half of the imperial family and was intended primarily for the Empress and the other women (68). This lifting machine is operated by the muscular effort of special workers. By 1853 "lifting machine" has been established at several entrances of the Winter Palace. They are installed in the suburban palaces. Thus, in the Gatchina Palace elevator appeared in 1854. As wear and tear and obsolescence of these mechanisms will be replaced periodically. In 1860 he was pulled down the old elevator at the entrance of the Minister of the Imperial Court (69). In 1861 began the mass installation of new elevators at the main entrance of the palace. All four elevators were built: the property of their Majesties' entrance, half of the late Empress Alexandra Feodorovna, and half of the heir. These structures were relatively cheap and cost the treasury just 500 rubles (70)
.
At 1860h years in the Winter Palace were used in two basic designs "winders". More capacious "lifting machine" still driven by the muscular effort rabochihlifterov. This circuit device elevators worked for 60 years, until the mid-1880s. Thus, in the years 1882-1883 during the installation of new elevators in the building of the Old Hermitage and the Commandant of the entrance were installed just such elevators. The document mentions that during the works were
are two "lifting machine driven by workers" (71). Sama lift cabin was located on the "screw lifting machine. These works, and all other mechanical, ordered the Palace of the refinery San Galli. These cost of court administration in 9000 rubles, while the plant has provided for these "lifting machine" guarantee of two years.

Along with the spacious "winders" hand-operated, used and more compact "lift chairs", which are activated hydraulically already. Thus, in 1862, was specially laid special plumbing "for Lifting the chair of the emperor. " These works have already been treated in 1400 rubles (72).

A similar device - "mashinnopodemny chair" - was established in 1871 at the entrance of the Minister of the Imperial Court (73). When raising them required some caution, because the "lift chair" was not protected against the rails on which he was raised. Therefore it was possible to observe how the "cradle" raised up their passengers. One of the pupils of the Smolny Institute, recalling his visit to the Winter Palace, left a description of the "Rapture": "Great Princess obligingly put her (74) in the chair of the Empress, rising through the machine at the top. The heir was behind her. "Grandma" seemed to be ascending to heaven, and heir to her bylkak angelomhranitelem. We ran down the stairs, and I tried to keep pace with the "rising", we had so much fun to look at them. " Sometimes this "open" design became the cause of accidents. Thus, in the 1880s years of the Empress Maria Feodorovna injured leg after she fell between the "Cradles" and rigid construction elevator.

In the mid-1880s "lifting machine" on the manual transmission began to be replaced Elevators are equipped with hydraulic drive. In the spring of 1886 a machine was installed on the stairs of his Majesty. In sparing design description stated that "the upper part of the cylinder machine attached to the pair of iron rails." In the porch of her Majesty's cylinder machine was absorbed into the ground and it is not permutation had to be done for the past 20 years ... for a proper motion of the cradle and redesigned the floor of a wooden cradle in a metal "(75).

Inside the bucket was installed folding bench mahogany on brass hinges and brackets. Doors lift machines were manufactured from Two gilt bronze grilles. Inside cradle lifting machine was covered with a cover of unbleached linen. Outside frame cradle was covered with a cover of
oilcloth (76).

In 1904, the thrust of the hydraulic actuator lifts in the entrance of the empress and the Small Hermitage tried to increase the energy supply additional pressure pipe to water tank lifting machines at the entrance of her Majesty. But the work in connection with the war were
postponed to 1905 (77). After Russkoyaponskoy war and revolution began gradually update lifting apparatus of the Winter Palace. At that time the equipment palace elevators on electricity from batteries. In 1913, the project engineer A. Stiegler (technical office engineer R. E. Erickson) on the Soviet entrance of the Hermitage was built lift with elektropodemnoy machine, installed in the attic of the palace. Elevator shafts passed through three floors, lifting height is 16 meters (78).

In addition to the various systems of heating, lighting, water supply and sanitation since 1833 in the tower northwest projection in the facade acted optical telegraph, the link between St. Petersburg and Warsaw. In 1841 engineer PL Schilling was carried telegraphy palace to the building of the General Staff. In 1882 was held telephone palace premises. So way, it can be argued that the history of technology in the Winter Palace became a kind of experimental "testing ground" for the testing and implementation of various devices engineering equipment.

cont'd
Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 05, 2010, 07:19:51 PM
cont'd

1 Devyatova C. For cleavage of the neck to wash? / / Motherland. 2003. № 7. 101.
2 Hermitage. History of Construction and Architecture Building / Construction. 1989. S. 191.
3 Russia State Historical Archive (RSHA). F. 469. Op. 12. Part 1. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
4 Ibid. F. 472. Op. 66. D. 588. L. 55.
5 Ibid. F. 479. Op. 1. D. 355. L. 1-29.
6 Ibid. F. 469. Op. 9. D. 340. L. 33 ob.
7 Ibid. Op. 12. Part 1. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
8 Ibid.
9 Ibid. Op. 11. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
10 Ibid.
11 Ibid. F. 479. Op. 1. D. 2093. L. 4.
12 Ibid. L. 31.
13 Ibid. F. 472. Op. 66. D. 500. L. 2.
14 Hermitage. History of Construction and Architecture Building / Construction. 1989. P. 142.
15 Ibid. S. 125.
16 Ibid. P. 149.
17 Bashutsky A. Renewal of the Winter Palace in St. Petersburg. SPb., 1839. P. 34.
18 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 2. D. 186. L. 202.
19 Ibid. F. 469. Op. 11. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
20 Hermitage. The history of construction and architecture of buildings. L., 1989. S. 256.
21 RSHA. F. 469. Op. 11. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
22 Ibid.
23 Ibid.
24 Ibid. F. 536. Op. 1. D. 728. L. 1.
25 Ibid. F. 469. Op. 11. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
26 Meylunas A., Mironenko S. Nicholas and Alexandra. Love Story. M., 1998. 136.
27 Ibid. P. 149.
28 Hotels Manuscripts of the National Library (RR NLR). F. 741. Op. 2. D. 148. L. 60.
29 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 1. D. 381. L. 1-5.
30 Assumption AI Pavlovsky Palace / / Zapiski of the Imperial Moscow Archaeological Society. M., 1913.
24, pp. S. 446.
31 Vilchkovsky SN Tsarskoe Selo. SPb., 1911. S. 140.
32 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 1. D. 472. L. 14.
33 Ibid. F. 536. Op. 1. D. 760. L. 12.
34 Devyatova S. decree. cit. 102.
35 A. The Romanovs Molin. The road to Calvary. Look forensic expert. SPb., 2002. S. 248.
36 Hermitage. The history of construction and architecture of buildings. S. 159.
37 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 2. D. 186. L. 201. Part 1.
38 RR NLR. F. 741. Op. 2. D. 148. L. 109.
39 Suslov, VA Nicholas I and the Hermitage / / Clio. 2003. № 2. S. 218.
40 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 1. D. 472. L. 14.
41 Ibid.
42 Ibid. D. 743. L. 12.
43 Ibid. F. 536. Op. 1. D. 880. L. 12.
44 Hermitage. The history of construction and architecture of buildings. Building. 1989. 88.
45 Ibid. 117.
46 Sivkov A. VPStasov and his work on the restoration of the Winter Palace after the fire of 1837, Leningrad, 1948. C. 1.
47 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 2. D. 186. L. 202. Part 1.
48 Ammosov N. brief description of the pneumatic otaplivanii and air quality on health behavior. M., 1844. C. 31.
49 And he is. Notes on the expense of testing air furnaces. SPb., 1863. P. 11.
50 And he is. Comments on article by Hodneva on air furnaces. SPb., 1861. C. 2.
51 Hermitage. The history of construction and architecture of buildings. S. 178.
52 RR NLR. F. 741. Op. 2. D. 148. L. 109.
53 Ibid. F. 1000. Op. 2. D. 672. L. 45.
54 RSHA. F. 469. Op. 10. 153. L. 18 on.
55 Assumption AI Ordinance. cit. S. 444.
56 RR NLR. F. 741. Op. 2. D. 148. L. 153.
57 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 2. D. 186. L. 202. Part 1.
58 RR NLR. F. 741. Op. 2. D. 148. L. 120.
59 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 1. D. 472. L. 1-14.
60 Suslov, VA decree. cit. S. 217.
61 RSHA. F. 469. Op. 11. D. 137. L. 1-29.
62 RR NLR. F. 1000. Op. 2. D. 672. L. 22.
63 RSHA. F. 536. Op. 1. D. 210. L. 3-4.
64 RR NLR. F. 741. Op. 2. D. 148. L. 171.
65 RSHA. F. 536. Op. 1. D. 760. L. 1-14.
66 Collegiate Brockhaus and Efron. SPb., 1898. 47, pp. P. 134.
67 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 2. D. 186. Part 1. L. 136.
68 Pashkova TL Main staircase northwestern projection in the facade of the Winter Palace / / Architectural notebooks. SPb., 1994.
Vol. 1. S. 35-43.
69 RSHA. F. 469. Op. 11. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
70 Ibid. Op. 12. Part 1. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
71 Ibid. Op. 11. D. 217. L. 1.
72 Ibid. Op. 12. Part 1. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
73 Ibid. Op. 11. Information taken from the description of the inventory of cases.
74 directrix Smolny YF Adlerberg.
75 RSHA. F. 536. Op. 1. D. 175. L. 6.
76 Ibid. D. 880. L. 4.
77 Library RGIA / / Report on the activities of St. Petersburg palace administration during the 1904 LA 94.
78 RSHA. F. 475. Op. 2. D. 177. L. 1-2.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ..dlnec1 on March 28, 2010, 09:34:28 AM
Does anyone have a floor plan of the children's rooms as they were just before the Great War.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Constantinople on March 31, 2010, 02:40:59 PM
Very interesting
does anyone have pllans for the Kitchen? or photos
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ..dlnec1 on April 02, 2010, 05:00:49 PM
If I remember correctly, there was a great kitchen beneath the Cathedral. I think this was the great or grand kitchen for the court, I am not sure it was for the Imperial Family.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Constantinople on April 07, 2010, 04:19:22 PM
thanks
I think a thread of food and the kitchens might be a good idea
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on April 21, 2010, 10:39:50 AM
Yes I agree, I am very interested in the service rooms, and what went on behind the scenes.
There is a topic " Dining with the Tsars" on this Forum, but it is not very interesting. Perhaps someone could embelish it a bit with new info.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on May 19, 2010, 07:22:01 AM
I found the following interesting entry in the Diary of Catherine the Great from the beginning of 1751, which is quite interesting :

" At the end of September we returned to the Winter Palace. At that time the court had so little furniture than even the mirrors, beds,chairs, tables and commodes that served us in the Winter Palace went with us to the Summer Palace and from there to Peterhof, and even followed us to Moscow. A good number broke and were damaged in these journeys, and they were given to us in this battered state, so that we had a hard time using them. As is was necessary to have an express order from the Empress to obtain others, and since most of the time access to her was difficult or even impossible, I resolved to buy myself commodes, tables and the most necessary furniture with my money for both the Winter Palace and Summer Palaces, and then when I went from one residence to the other, I found everything that I needed without the difficulty and the inconveniences of transport. This arrangement pleased the Grand Duke, he did the same for his apartment. At Oranienbaum, which belonged to the Grand Duke, we had everything we needed at our own expense. In my apartment there, I spent my own money to avoid all disagreement and difficulty because His Imperial Highness spent freely on all his fancies, when it came to me, in general he was anything but generous. But since what I spent from my purse on my apartments, serves to embellish his house, he was content "

I wonder if any of her furniture from this time has survived, and is in the Winter Palace today ?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on October 25, 2010, 05:14:23 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Wint2.jpg)

This furniture was found from private home in Finland and is going for sale. The owners were a bit surprised when they learned were it was from. Hopefully it gets back to Winter Palace.

This furniture white and silver of this Alexandra Feodorovna's boudoir was saled in january 2009 : it is still in private finish collection :

(http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/10/26//101026121110501256993300.png) (http://www.casimages.com)

(http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/10/26//101026121109501256993295.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)

(http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/10/26//101026121109501256993297.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)

(http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/10/26//101026121110501256993298.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)

(http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/10/26//101026121110501256993299.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)

(http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/10/26//101026121109501256993296.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on November 09, 2010, 09:36:54 AM
Another view of the silver furniture of the Alexandra Foedorovna's boudoir in the Winter Palace (Finland , january 2009 ) :

(http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/11/09//101109043911501257085625.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ThomB on January 21, 2011, 03:28:56 PM
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/fullSize.mac/fullSize?selLang=English&dlViewId=JG43%2B230T3E7EURDGC&size=big&selCateg=picture&dlCategId=K4K7Y3SWP76JG4J1&comeFrom=advanced (http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/fullSize.mac/fullSize?selLang=English&dlViewId=JG43%2B230T3E7EURDGC&size=big&selCateg=picture&dlCategId=K4K7Y3SWP76JG4J1&comeFrom=advanced)
Good plan of the winter palace...
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ThomB on January 24, 2011, 04:14:37 PM
As best I can tell this is a plan of the Winter Palace before the fire of 1837
http://books.google.com/books?id=0ldDAAAAcAAJ&dq=intitle%3AAnalyse%20intitle%3Aarchitecturale%20intitle%3Ade%20intitle%3Al'Italie%20intitle%3Aet%20intitle%3Ade%20intitle%3Al'Europe&pg=PA251#v=onepage&q&f=true (http://books.google.com/books?id=0ldDAAAAcAAJ&dq=intitle%3AAnalyse%20intitle%3Aarchitecturale%20intitle%3Ade%20intitle%3Al'Italie%20intitle%3Aet%20intitle%3Ade%20intitle%3Al'Europe&pg=PA251#v=onepage&q&f=true)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on January 24, 2011, 09:52:32 PM
Thom, I can't get an image to load on that page... Is it still working?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ThomB on January 25, 2011, 08:24:59 AM
I'm not sure what's up with the link on the State Hermitage website. It didn't work yesterday morning and then later in the day it did.

Here is the title of the work itself:

Winter Palace. The Plan of the First Floor (second Floor, USA)

Pen and Indian ink and watercolour. 44x57 cm
Russia. Mid-19th century   
Provenance: mid-19th century

Maybe this will be a simpler link:
http://www.arthermitage.org/Drawings/Winter-Palace-The-Plan-of-the-First-Floor.html (http://www.arthermitage.org/Drawings/Winter-Palace-The-Plan-of-the-First-Floor.html)
(Click on it to enlarge.)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on January 25, 2011, 11:43:15 AM
Yes, thank you!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on January 25, 2011, 12:00:26 PM
http://www.arthermitage.org/Drawings/Winter-Palace-The-Plan-of-the-First-Floor.html (http://www.arthermitage.org/Drawings/Winter-Palace-The-Plan-of-the-First-Floor.html)
(Click on it to enlarge.)

I do not know if anyone can add numbers on the above plan but if you are able to identify the white drawing room, there is a door opening to the left of it, that room is square shaped. Beyond it was NII's bathroom. The square room has in the upper portion what appears to be a rectangle box. This is where the remnants of the elevator hoist is located with Briullov paintings, muted pink and light blue.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ThomB on January 25, 2011, 12:44:46 PM
The white drawing room is immediately past the malachite drawing room in the Empress's apartment, is it not? (Which doesn't help much if ones doesn't happen to know where the malachite room is, I admit!)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ThomB on February 03, 2011, 08:36:43 AM
Since I linked to pre- and post- fire plans of the palace, just for comparison here is Rastrelli's original plan…
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/05/hm5_7_7_0_6.html (http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/05/hm5_7_7_0_6.html)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Selencia on September 16, 2011, 05:07:41 PM
Has anyone been to the Winter Palace? In reading about Imperial Russia I often hear about how members of the family did not like living at the Winter Palace for various reasons; and I was just wondering if for the people who have been in there, if you got a sense that it would not be a very nice place to live.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 16, 2011, 05:45:09 PM
Well, Selenica, I, as well as many others on this forum have, several times.
  The private apartments no longer exist as they were,  but the place is huge, uncomfortable and  cold or overheated.. There were no real outside places to  enjoy,  The other palaces out side of the city had more than enough of that. It was much like Buckingham Palace- a working office building.  Also a target.
 After Alexander II died there, from assassination,  I think the family generally avoided it other than formal occasions.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Sanochka on September 06, 2012, 09:17:54 PM
Russian tulipwood jardiniere mounted with ormolu and Sevres porcelain from the White Drawing Room of Empress Alexandra.  Recorded in inventories of this room in 1850, 1885, and again in 1889.  Photo from Christie's sale, October 21, 2005.  (This piece sold for $156,000.)

(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n556/sanochka1/d4589006x.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Russian Art Lover on September 07, 2012, 01:34:39 PM
Interesting that many of the tsars actually died in the Winter Palace - Alexander II after the bomb attack on the Catherine Canal, Catherine the Great on the toilet seat or in a corridor, whichever version you want to believe.

There were also many unfortunate incidents linked to the place - the bomb attack of 1880, the fire of 1837, Alexander I watching the flood of 1824 from the windows of the Winter Palace, Nicholas I holed up in the Winter Palace on the morning of the Decembrist revolt...

Incidentally, Nicholas I also died in the Winter Palace (18 February 1855). But the modest folding bed on which he died is no longer there - it was moved to the Cottage at Alexandria.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: RomanovMartyrs on October 19, 2012, 03:59:55 AM
Can anyone tell me the numbers for the rooms where OTMA slept? I know Tatiana had a room on the first floor at #15, but what about bedrooms of the girls? Did they all share one (the other rooms on the ground floor in that corner are quite large), or were they separate?

Was #15 where Tatiana slept or just a kind of office?

If I was made to guess, perhaps they used #13 as a bedroom and #14 was some sort of sitting room? #12 is the Gothic hall, I doubt this was a bedroom...

Any help is appreciated!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: IvanVII on December 12, 2012, 08:59:08 PM
I believe #15 is part of the apartments for the daughters of NI not NII.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Sanochka on February 03, 2013, 04:39:04 PM
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n556/sanochka1/SilverdrawingroomLarge.jpg)

(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n556/sanochka1/silverdrawingroomfurnituretoday.jpg)

Here is a stunning picture of the furniture that sold at the 2009 Bukowski auction in Finland.  Above is another picture of some it in situ, in Alexandra Feodorovna's Silver Drawing Rroom in the Winter Palace, circa 1917.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: BobG on February 04, 2013, 08:57:52 AM
I believe #15 is part of the apartments for the daughters of NI not NII.

I'm having trouble finding the plans that show these room numbers.  Can anyone redirect me?
Thanx,
BobG
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on February 05, 2013, 11:56:51 AM
To complete the Sanochka's post , other pictures of the silver drawning room's furnitures ( before restoration ) , with another sofa and a square table ( we see it in the black-and-white photo of the room ) :

The first sofa :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644295012510836027.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644295012510836027.jpg)

The second sofa :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644135012510836023.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644135012510836023.jpg)

Three chairs:

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644195012510836024.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644195012510836024.jpg)

Two armchairs :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644245012510836026.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644245012510836026.jpg)

The square table :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644215012510836025.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644215012510836025.jpg)

Bukowski auction , 2009 , Finland :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644335012510836028.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644335012510836028.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644385012510836030.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644385012510836030.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644365012510836029.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644365012510836029.jpg)

Another view of the Alexandra Feodorovna's Silver Drawning Room in the Winter Palace :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644465012510836031.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644465012510836031.jpg)

Sorry for my bad english :(
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on February 05, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
Sorry for my bad english :(

  Thank you for the photographs.  Do not worry about your English. It is entirely clear.  Congratulations!   Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on February 05, 2013, 01:31:13 PM

  Thank you for the photographs.  Do not worry about your English. It is entirely clear.  Congratulations!   Regards,  AP.

Thanks .

I notice that the two armchairs what I show are different from the Sanochka's armchairs picture ! :

Armchairs with TWO laurel wreathes :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050754525012510836404.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050754525012510836404.jpg)

Armchairs with THREE laurel wreathes :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050644245012510836026.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050644245012510836026.jpg)

There are two sorts of armchairs , like two sorts of sofa , and two sorts of table .

In the end , we have :

- 2 different sofas

- 2 sorts of armchairs ( 4 + 2 ) ( in France we call these armchairs : " bergères " )

- 6 chairs

- a square ( or rectangle ) table .

- a round pedestal table .

Localisation :

1 : the first sofa

2 : " big " armchair ( in the foreground , there are " little " armchairs )

3 : the rectangle table

4 : the legs of the round pedestal table

5 : the second sofa

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050820565012510836519.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050820565012510836519.jpg)

6 : the first sofa ( circa 1920 ) :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050832185012510836550.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050832185012510836550.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on February 05, 2013, 01:56:02 PM
Details of the round pedestal table :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050851595012510836588.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050851595012510836588.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050852085012510836589.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050852085012510836589.jpg)

Details of the first sofa :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050852175012510836590.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050852175012510836590.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050852315012510836591.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050852315012510836591.jpg)

Details of a " little " armchair ( with 2 laurel wreathes ) :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/02/05//1302050852345012510836592.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1302050852345012510836592.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on March 01, 2013, 01:50:48 AM
This " Art Nouveau " ( Gallé ? ) tulip vase was present in the silver drawing room of Alexandra Feodorovna :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/03/01//1303010850395012510915567.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1303010850395012510915567.jpg)

On the silver table , left :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2013/03/01//1303010851305012510915576.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1303010851305012510915576.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: G.Michael on January 06, 2014, 09:14:29 PM
I'm reading a history book called "The Accession of Nicholas I," in which most of the narrative takes place at the Winter Palace. And I am trying to match up one of the rooms mentioned in the book with the floor plans of the palace that have been posted earlier in this (very old) thread.

The book describes an extraordinary meeting of the State Council in a room "near the dark corridor." At the time, it was apparently known as the Assembly Hall, where the council usually met during the reign of Alexander I.

 Nicholas I later used the space as a playroom for his children and put a large model of a ship in it, according to the book.

Any idea which room this would be?



 

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on January 07, 2014, 04:30:13 AM
hope this helps....

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/ZIMNIDVORETS.jpg)
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on January 07, 2014, 08:58:13 AM
I'm reading a history book called "The Accession of Nicholas I," in which most of the narrative takes place at the Winter Palace. And I am trying to match up one of the rooms mentioned in the book with the floor plans of the palace that have been posted earlier in this (very old) thread.

The book describes an extraordinary meeting of the State Council in a room "near the dark corridor." At the time, it was apparently known as the Assembly Hall, where the council usually met during the reign of Alexander I.

 Nicholas I later used the space as a playroom for his children and put a large model of a ship in it, according to the book.

Any idea which room this would be?  


here's a better view....

-- the former dining room is the room under discussion....
(click on image for larger view)
.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/th_winterpaldiagram.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/skinheadbrian/media/winterpaldiagram.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/th_wintpallabeled.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/skinheadbrian/media/wintpallabeled.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/th_playroom1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/skinheadbrian/media/playroom1.jpg.html)


.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: G.Michael on January 07, 2014, 10:27:06 PM


here's a better view....



This is very helpful. Thank you. I especially appreciate the labeled floor plan, which has already helped answer a few other questions. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on January 08, 2014, 06:27:09 AM


here's a better view....



This is very helpful. Thank you. I especially appreciate the labeled floor plan, which has already helped answer a few other questions. Thanks again.


incidentally, i should mention that, as you can see on my labeled plan, many rooms have several names -- as in:  "something/ something/ something" --  that's not because i wasn't sure, it was because rooms had different uses at different points in time.   i imagine you probably figured that out, but just in case, i wanted to clarify  :-)

.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: dodo00 on September 03, 2015, 10:16:54 AM
Not only does page nine of this book https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbookz.ru%2Fauthors%2Figor_-zimin%2Fzimnii-d_007%2F1-zimnii-d_007.html&edit-text=&act=url have lots of depictions of the rooms of nicholas and alexandra, the other pages have info on the history of the private apartments of just about everybody going back to the palace's construction, hope this can help some of you out with any even more obscure rooms
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: ArchitectCS on March 24, 2016, 09:55:44 PM
I'm trying to track down any photos of Alexandra's study in the Winter Palace as part of my research on Faberge Eggs. In Faberge Eggs: A Retrospective Encyclopedia it says that many of Alexandra's eggs were in this room. While I've seen photos of some eggs in the corner cabinet in her Maple Study at the Alexander Palace, I haven't seen any of the others that were kept in the Winter Palace. I assume no photos of the eggs in this location exist, but anything anyone could post or PM me would be hugely appreciated. Also, if you know of any other places they might have been kept, that would be helpful as well. Thanks!
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Miek on June 18, 2016, 02:06:32 PM
Hello Architect, no photo for you but there is an inventory made in 1909 of the Eggs in the Winter Palace. There were ten; AF fist nine Eggs in chrono sequence and the 1907 Egg.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 29, 2016, 05:47:43 PM
Yes, is this  the  "yellow dining room" ?  I wonder where this room was ?  It looks as if it had windows facing a small courtyard. Could anyone point out the room number perhaps on the floorplans ? It was obviously on the 1st floor ( second floor in America), premier etage ? The bomb was placed in the room beneath this one, so the blast came from below, but it must have been a very strong as the rest of the room is badly damaged. I dont think anyone would have survived.

The yellow dining room was #160 on the 2nd floor.

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/06/yellow-dining-room-160.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 08, 2016, 01:06:04 PM
One of the 'hidden' internal staircases in the apartments of Nicholas & Alexandra:

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/hidden-internal-staircase.html

Joanna

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 13, 2016, 09:40:11 AM
A photo of the structural maze of mezzanines:

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/mezzanine-small-church-staircase.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 16, 2016, 05:14:01 PM
Nicholas II's Gothic Library -

Nicholas' irritation is loud and clear in his letter!

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/gothic-library-alexander-iis-diaries.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 18, 2016, 09:58:35 AM
Disorientating when seeing a reverse image!

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/winter-palace-getty-images.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 22, 2016, 10:07:33 AM
Alexander III’s Window Etching in the Winter Palace
A window pane - historic museum piece.
Etch on my window, recyclable!

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/alexander-iiis-window-etching-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Janet Ashton on July 22, 2016, 03:32:44 PM
Alexander III’s Window Etching in the Winter Palace
A window pane - historic museum piece.
Etch on my window, recyclable!

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/alexander-iiis-window-etching-in-winter.html

Joanna

I'm enjoying your blog very much, Joanna, and look forward to your book and its illustrations very much! Do you have details and a publication date?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 23, 2016, 04:49:43 PM
Thank you very much. It's thrilling for me that I am finally at the point to share snippets from my 20 years of research on the Winter Palace.

For example, here is a little tidbit of information that I will write. The standard emphasis has been on endless Imperial Balls. From January 1st to April 27th, 1902 there were 17 balls and dinners; 3 to 5 hours of the day if that. What of the majority of their days? I am taking us behind the closed doors, through the decades of the Imperial family's daily lives.

Mikhail Piotrovsky, Director of the Hermitage, in an interview mentioned how impressed he was with the unconventional display of ordinary life in a palace in Munich. An idea he considered he would have liked for the Hermitage, but there were few tourists.

English readers will experience the past vibrant life of the Winter Palace.

My research and book is a work-in-progress, to be published in the fall of 2017.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: DNAgenie on July 23, 2016, 06:37:41 PM
Quote
Here is a little tidbit of information that I will write. The standard emphasis has been on endless Imperial Balls. From January 1st to April 27th, 1902 there were 17 balls and dinners; 3 to 5 hours of the day if that.

Whose idea would it have been to have so many Imperial Balls and dinners? Alexandra hated the balls, was not physically strong enough to dance all night, and frequently retired early, nor was she comfortable making small talk at the dinners.  Was it a hangover from the previous reign, when Empress Maria Feodorovna adored entertaining and would have insisted on having many such festivities? Or was it another of the 'usual customs' that Nicholas did not want to abandon?  Would love to know the background to all this activity.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 24, 2016, 10:38:34 AM
Two Staircases, Two Rooms, Two Nicholas’

Confused?

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/two-staircases-two-rooms-two-nicholas.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 24, 2016, 10:55:37 AM
Whose idea would it have been to have so many Imperial Balls and dinners?

The Imperial Family resided in the Winter Palace for the winter season. The balls and dinners were followed according to precedence i.e. for diplomatic corps, etc. Sometimes the balls were cancelled due to illness such as wife of Nicholas I or Empress Marie F. or the family were living in their other palaces; Moscow, Livadia. Other balls/dinners were added depending on the reign. Nicholas II had a dinner in the Malachite every year with the German Ambassador and Embassy on Kaiser Wilhelm's birthday.

Nicholas II in his diary wrote how he loved when Carnival had ended and the great fast began, he was tired of late nights upsetting his routine.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 31, 2016, 04:28:24 PM
Alexander Hall in the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/07/alexander-hall-in-winter-palace.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 03, 2016, 10:13:13 AM
‘Chamber Pots’ in the Winter Palace

We are amused!

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/08/chamber-pots-in-winter-palace.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Sanochka on August 05, 2016, 12:38:59 PM
I was surprised to read of "silver chamber pots of Nicholas II's daughters."  I've always been under the impression that they relied exclusively on "modern" indoor plumbing.  Under what circumstances would they have used chamber pots?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 09, 2016, 04:18:33 PM
Under what circumstances would they have used chamber pots?

For the daughters, they were most likely used when they were sick in bed. By the late 1800s, toilets were predominate. Up until Alexander III, they still maintained chamber pots, usually in washstands or covered as chairs.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 15, 2016, 10:05:15 AM
Daguerreotype of the Grand Dukes c1855

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/08/daguerreotype-of-grand-dukes-c1855.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 16, 2016, 10:09:01 AM
3rd Spare Drawing Room on the 2nd Floor in the Winter Palace

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/08/3rd-spare-drawing-room-on-2nd-floor-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 22, 2016, 03:22:25 PM
Furniture in the Winter Palace – Bedrooms (1)

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/08/furniture-in-winter-palace-bedrooms-1.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Cathy on August 24, 2016, 07:00:23 AM
Thanks Joanna

I found the pillow basket in all three of the paintings!! I do not have a chair in my bedroom so extra pillows have to go on the floor!  :)

Cathy

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 29, 2016, 09:52:24 AM
Kiot of Icons in Nicholas II’s Bedroom in the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/08/kiot-of-icons-in-nicholas-iis-bedroom.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 30, 2016, 10:05:22 AM
Telephones in the Winter Palace

Note the telephone that was in the Children's rooms in the Alexander Palace.

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/08/telephones-in-winter-palace.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 01, 2016, 10:22:48 AM
Billiards in the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/09/billiards-in-winter-palace.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kalafrana on September 01, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
There is a billiards table in Nicholas's study at the Alexander Palace.

A pedantic friend tells me that there is no such thing as a billiard table!

Ann

Ann
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Cathy on September 07, 2016, 06:50:44 AM
"Even though they are based on a singular concept, billiards, pool and snooker are completely different type of sports or games. Therefore, it is only natural that the play surface as well as the equipment utilized in the game is dissimilar.

First of all, let me briefly introduce the principle of billiards. Like I previously mentioned, billiard is not just another type of pool, but rather constitutes the premise from which snooker and pool have evolved. As of such, billiard is not played on your standard pool table and it has its specific surface for the job: a slightly larger table with no pockets.
That’s right, because the object of billiards (or carom billiards) consists of striking the object ball with your cue ball, hitting the rails exactly three times and then somehow contacting the second ball, there is no need for pockets.

The principal dissociation between a pool table and the billiards counterpart comprises of the presence of the 6 pockets (4 in each corner and 2 halfway on each of the rail’s long sides). In regards to the dimensions, the pool tables only differ slightly, the common variations being 9 feet, 8 feet and 7 feet. 10 feet pool tables are quite rare nowadays, but can be found occasionally in traditional establishments with vintage decors. In addition to that, residential versions can be as small as 6 feet by 3 feet.
Furthermore, the pool table comes equipped with 15 object balls, a cue ball and a triangle rack that is utilized in arranging them before the match. As far as the cues are concerned, you should expect the pool cues to be a few inches longer and to present a thinner tip."

So now we must determine from Joanna's pictures - do we see the pockets?

Cathy

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: DNAgenie on September 07, 2016, 06:24:19 PM
That is a billiards table.  It may also have been used for snooker. Pool is a different game, played on a different, smaller, table, and it was not a gentleman's game, whereas billiards and snooker were played by gentlemen.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 08, 2016, 10:27:33 AM
It is confusing.

The archival documents refer to Billiards i.e. the rooms and the manufacturer. The inventory lists 'pool' table(s), accessories. I will look again at the repair documents.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2016, 02:53:57 PM
Alexander II’s Reception Room in the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/09/alexander-iis-reception-room-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 28, 2016, 10:23:33 AM
Grand Dukes’ Nursery on the 1st Floor of the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/09/grand-dukes-nursery-on-1st-floor-of.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 29, 2016, 10:02:43 AM
Unwanted Guests (creepy-crawlies) in the Winter Palace

I was surprised to read that Pat Nixon had a fly swatter in her sitting room closet as the White House is full of cluster flies!

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/09/unwanted-guests-creepy-crawlies-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on October 04, 2016, 10:15:31 AM
Empress Alexandra’s Wardrobe on 2nd Floor Mezzanine of the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/10/empress-alexandras-wardrobe-on-2nd.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Sanochka on October 04, 2016, 11:11:32 AM
Absolutely riveting post about Alexandra's wardrobe, Joanna, and the senseless looting of it in 1917.  Has the wardrobe been put back in order and is it still there? 

Thank you for posting.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on October 12, 2016, 09:01:16 AM
Has the wardrobe been put back in order and is it still there?

The mezzanine and wardrobes are used today for storage as is Alexandra's bathroom. I have a photo of it the mezzanine today.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Inok Nikolai on October 12, 2016, 09:27:36 AM
Empress Alexandra’s Wardrobe on 2nd Floor Mezzanine of the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/10/empress-alexandras-wardrobe-on-2nd.html

Joanna

For the record, Empress Alexandra knew of the looting. In several letters from Tobolsk she asks friends about it, and whether or not they bought any of the gowns that were being sold. She also records that the mob destroyed the portraits of her parents.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on October 25, 2016, 10:21:05 AM
Bronze Apollo & Daphne Clock in Empress Marie’s Bathroom

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/10/bronze-apollo-daphne-clock-in-empress.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 01, 2016, 10:26:07 AM
Empress Alexandra's Wardrobe - Part 2

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/11/empress-alexandras-wardrobe-part-2.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Sanochka on November 02, 2016, 09:51:11 AM
The wardrobe video is fascinating.  I had no idea that so much of Alexandra's wardrobe still exists.  I'm just amazed that so much of it was kept and preserved throughout the Soviet era. 

Thank you for posting, Joanna.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 05, 2016, 12:47:40 PM
The Hermitage's beautiful restoration of the Empress Marie's Dressing Room in the Winter Palace:

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/12/unwanted-guests-creepy-crawlies-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on January 16, 2017, 07:40:24 PM
Joanna, wow! It has been a long time since we communicated, but I'm not surprised in the slightest that you have such an interesting blog because you always sent me the most wonderful treats by email! I would love to read your book in the future. It sounds enthralling.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on January 19, 2017, 10:16:06 AM
Thank you very much EmmyLee.

Without comments or questions from others, I am not sure if there is interest in my continuing to post on the forum. I have had great ideas from comments on my blog and facebook such as the post this week on the camp bed.  The study of Nicholas I on the lst floor is a whole chapter in my book – Ukhtomsky’s watercolor and the photograph c1917 of the study are deceptive which I reveal!

It is great to reconnect! I have sent an IM with my new email.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 19, 2017, 01:45:54 PM
Empress Alexandra's bathroom c1840 and c1896 and the interior courtyard with its large window:

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/02/a-century-past-alexander-palace.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on March 01, 2017, 04:12:42 PM
Dear Johanna, are there any photographs of the bathroom and toilet of Empress Alexandra (of Nicholas II) as it looked in the early 1900's or today? The painting shows what it looked like at the time of Alexandra Feodorovna (of Nicholas I).
Can you please post?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on March 01, 2017, 05:18:04 PM
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/dressingroom.html

people always forget about the main APTM website.  :(
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on March 03, 2017, 02:25:41 PM
This thread is about the private rooms in the WINTER PALACE, thus my question to Johanna concerns the bathroom and toilet of Alexandra Feodorovna in the Winter Palace, not the dressing room in the Alexander Palace.  Maybe it was not clear? I apologize.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on March 03, 2017, 05:06:18 PM
My apologies, the misunderstanding was mine. Stupidly I did not read the topic header. I'm very sorry.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 06, 2017, 09:45:50 AM
Dear Johanna, are there any photographs of the bathroom and toilet of Empress Alexandra (of Nicholas II) as it looked in the early 1900's or today? The painting shows what it looked like at the time of Alexandra Feodorovna (of Nicholas I).
Can you please post?

I do have photographs of Alexandra's bathroom today that show all the decorations c1896 - tiles, doors, mirrors, etc.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on March 06, 2017, 12:44:24 PM
Dear Joanna, would you kindly post the photos?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Sanochka on March 07, 2017, 09:25:48 AM
Ditto Pers.  I have been sitting on the edge of my seat, just waiting to see pics of Alexandra's bathroom at the Winter Palace. 

I only hope they're more complete than the tantalizing peek through the doorway of her bathroom at the Alexander Palace - where all we can see is a sofa.
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 09, 2017, 06:00:24 PM
Nicholas & Alexandra Sleep on His Divan
Winter Palace Saint Petersburg

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/03/nicholas-iis-divan-in-his-private-study.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 23, 2017, 10:12:37 AM
Gothic Library Chandeliers - Hermitage, St. Petersburg
Are owners unaware of provenance?

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/03/chandeliers-in-nicholas-iis-gothic.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: pers on March 24, 2017, 09:05:44 AM
Dear Johanna, can you please post the photos of the bathroom of Empress Alexandra Feodorovna?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 26, 2017, 06:50:04 PM
Karl Briullov’s paintings – ‘Italian Morning’ & ‘Italian Midday’ in Empress Alexandra's Library on the 3rd floor of the Winter Palace:

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/03/empress-alexandras-library-on-3rd-floor.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on May 01, 2017, 09:55:51 AM
Painting Stolen in 1872 in the Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/05/theft-in-grand-duke-pauls-apartment-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 01, 2017, 12:01:53 PM
Winter Palace Small Corner Balcony in Saint Petersburg 1827 to 1947

Empress Marie's Gold Drawing Room Balcony

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/06/2nd-floor-corner-balcony-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on August 17, 2017, 09:21:46 AM
Do you know what the object is in Eduard Hau’s 1870 watercolor?

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/08/a-mysterious-object-in-alexandras.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 05, 2017, 10:07:34 AM
Have you ever seen photographs of the 3rd floor of the Winter Palace? A rare photo is in the link below.

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/09/rare-view-of-3rd-floor-room-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on September 19, 2017, 10:58:45 AM
Can you identify the bell-pull cord in the paintings in the link below?

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/09/grand-duchess-studybedroom-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on October 12, 2017, 09:50:31 AM
The Empress and the Chimney Sweeper in the Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/10/fireplace-problems-in-winter-palace.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on October 16, 2017, 10:24:49 AM
Winter Palace mystery - example in Petit Trianon Versailles!

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/10/mystery-of-wall-brackets.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on October 27, 2017, 08:34:55 AM
Finally confirmed!  Nicholas II and the mystery room on the 3rd floor of the Winter Palace

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/10/unidentified-room-is-on-3rd-floor-of.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on December 04, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
Panorama of the toddler grand dukes bedroom in the Winter Palace, St. Petersburg

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/12/panorama-of-bedroom-of-little-grand.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on January 27, 2018, 06:12:28 PM
3D close-up of the small doors and windows – Nicholas & Alexandra’s Dining Room – Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/01/panorama-of-white-dining-room-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 13, 2018, 09:19:26 AM
3D Panorama link in the post below of Empress Alexandra’s Study in the Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg [note the decoration that survived]

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/02/empress-alexandras-study-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 15, 2018, 12:09:19 PM
A 1917 photograph of Empress Alexandra’s Study in the Winter Palace where the Fabergé glass cabinet stood is included in the link below

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/02/empress-alexandras-glass-cabinet-of.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 22, 2018, 05:58:23 PM
A spectacular 3D panorama [link below] of Empress Alexandra’s boudoir in the Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg. Can you find the Empress’ monogram АФ among the floral garlands on the walls?

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/02/empress-alexandras-boudoir-in-winter.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 15, 2018, 05:27:47 PM
An amazing 3D Panorama (click on the post below for the link) of the Crown Prince’s Bedroom in the Winter Palace

Emperor Nicholas II distress with the Crown Prince who was sick while visiting the Winter Palace in 1903

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/03/the-crown-princes-bedroom-in-winter.html

Joanna

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Kalafrana on March 19, 2018, 04:22:59 AM
Like  no spare room I've seen before!

Ann
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 27, 2018, 11:38:47 AM
Fascinating 3D Panoramas (click on the post below for the links) of two rarely seen rooms on the 3rd floor of the Winter Palace [Hermitage Museum] in Saint Petersburg

Note the small door in room #393 that led to Their Majesties Own Staircase.

These are the rooms that Queen Victoria's grandsons and granddaughters - Victoria of Battenberg, Ernst of Hesse-Darmstadt and Ducky, Princess Thora - stayed in when visiting St. Petersburg.

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/03/emperor-nicholas-is-office-on-3rd-floor.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: G.Michael on March 27, 2018, 10:42:43 PM
Joanna,
Thank for yet another fascinating blog post.
What path would official visitors have taken to get to Nicholas I’s rooms on the third floor?
Using Their Majesties Own Staircase would seem too intimate, no?
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on March 30, 2018, 06:34:55 PM
Thank you very much G. Michael for your comment. It is very much appreciated to know that others are interested in my research.

The former rooms of Nicholas I have been restored in the last two years including the corridor #398 - 400. There is no access to the private Majesties Own Staircase.

Since they are now restoring the Small Church on the 2nd floor, the Small Church Staircase may be closed. Another way is by the Saltykov Staircase or, after touring the former Ladies-in-Waiting rooms on the 3rd floor, walking down the corridor #359. It all depends on what rooms are closed at the time for continued renovation or changing of exhibitions.

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on April 05, 2018, 10:23:50 AM
3D panorama of Emperor Alexander II’s Study/Bedroom today in the Winter Palace in St. Petersburg (click on the photo below for the link)

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/04/emperor-alexander-iis-studybedroom-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on April 17, 2018, 11:08:01 AM
A video (link below) of Empress Alexandra’s Winter Garden #181 in the Winter Palace from 1840s-50s to Nicholas II’s Private Study to today.

https://vk.com/@hermitage_museum-the-winter-garden

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on April 17, 2018, 11:08:58 AM
A rare photo (link below) of the alcove’s small door in Alexander II’s Study in the Winter Palace

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/04/studybedroom-in-winter-palace-part-2.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on April 24, 2018, 06:17:24 PM
Blocked for a week to share my research with the groups on Facebook due to their crazy algorithms, I used the time and found new sources of archival information and photographs on the Winter Palace!

One is a photograph (link below) with a detail that confirms what I had suspected. A researcher’s dream!

Nicholas II's Dressing Room in the Winter Palace:

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2018/04/emperor-nicholas-iis-dressing-room-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 11, 2018, 05:42:24 PM
Children Playing in Empress Alexandra’s Winter Palace Rooms

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2018/06/children-playing-in-empress-alexandras.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 15, 2018, 11:02:53 AM
Nicholas II in the Winter Palace Drawing Room

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2018/06/nicholas-ii-in-winter-palace-drawing.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 20, 2018, 06:31:09 PM
Panorama of the Emperor’s Hidden Toilet in the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2018/06/panorama-of-emperors-hidden-toilet-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on January 03, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
Photos of the interiors c1917 published in Paris in the Illustrated Newspaper in 1926 - note the four panel screen in Empress Maria's Gold Drawing Room never seen before.

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2019/01/interiors-of-winter-palace-c1917.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on February 13, 2020, 06:07:26 PM
Nicholas II’s Museum of Gold, Silver and Porcelain in the Winter Palace on the 3rd floor above their rooms

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2020/02/nicholas-iis-museum-of-gold-silver-and.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on May 10, 2020, 01:23:26 PM
Nicholas II's bathroom in the Winter Palace

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2020/05/nicholas-iis-pool-tub-in-winter-palace.html

Title: Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on July 06, 2020, 06:37:16 PM
Empress Alexandra's sculpture bought in Darmstadt in 1899 and placed in her Winter Palace Study

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-rare-discovery-of-sculpture-in.html

Joanna