Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: Lisa on February 14, 2006, 07:44:15 AM

Title: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Lisa on February 14, 2006, 07:44:15 AM


These are the portraits of Elena I have:

by BAKST 1899 (http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3239/bakst18991cv.th.jpg) (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bakst18991cv.jpg)

3 by Lazslo:

(http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/7549/laszlo21tt.th.jpg) (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laszlo21tt.jpg)  (http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5393/laszlo38ko.th.jpg) (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laszlo38ko.jpg)   (http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5205/laszlo44wv.th.jpg) (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laszlo44wv.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marc on June 16, 2008, 05:54:10 AM
Portrait of little Grand Duchess Helen Vladimirovna:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/EV.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on June 16, 2008, 04:31:24 PM
Very Nice!  :)  she  Looks more like a doll then a Grand Duchess.

I wonder if that the one when she was four? the knife story?!? possibly she looks around that age.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on May 16, 2009, 04:18:12 PM
Portrait of GD Vladimir Alexandrovich
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3592/67670623.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marc on March 22, 2010, 12:57:48 PM
Sorry,not new,but a little bit bigger version of portrait of GD Helen Vladimirovna,now in home of her grandson Prince Alexander-it was already posted by me before:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Helen-1.jpg)

Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 01, 2010, 01:17:43 AM
Here's Part 2.

As always I remind: Please don't double the pictures posted before in previous topics on the Vladimirovitchi. If one doesn't want to browse older topics (for whatever reason)...well, one should browse older topics anyway )))
. But if you have really a larger and clearer version (or without much hated by everyone watermarks) of the previuosly posted image - well, post it!
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 01, 2010, 01:50:09 AM
So, let's begin.

GD Vladimir and his family, with his wife's brother Johann Albrecht. I had thought that's Friedrich Franz, but no..that's Johann Albrecht aka Abi for the family.

(http://www.picatom.com/1l/ji-2-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1l/ji-2.html)

The photo had been posted in blurry version a long time ago and had gone. Now - the better version.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on September 01, 2010, 03:50:24 AM
Given the ages of the children, I imagine that this picture was taken in the early 1880s - perhaps about 1882.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 02, 2010, 12:39:57 AM
Given the ages of the children, I imagine that this picture was taken in the early 1880s - perhaps about 1882.

Ann

That's 1884-1885year.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 02, 2010, 03:17:14 AM
GD Kiryll as a boy
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7384/dsc09944w.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on September 03, 2010, 12:00:27 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/1898cannes001-1-1.jpg)
Cannes 1898

Frist row: GD Andrei Vladimirovitch, ?, Prince Christian pf Cumberland, Duchess Cecile, GD Micheal Mikhailovitch, Prince Ernest of Cumberland, GD Boris, and Crown Prince Ferdinand of Romania
Second Row:Princess Alexandra of Cumberland, GD Helene Vladimirovna, ?, Duchess Thyra of Cumberland, GD Anastasia Mikhailovna, Queen Louise of Denmark, Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, Princess Marie of Romania, ?, ?, ?
Third Row: GD Micheal Nicolaievitch, Princess Olga of Cumberland, Princess Thyra, Duchess Alexandrine, Prince Christian, Duchess Elizabeth of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Ernest Auguste Duke of CUmberland, GD Xenia, Duke Paul Frederick of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Duchess Marie of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Prince Harold of Denmark, Duke Jean Albert of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Prince Federic of Denmar
Fourth row: GD Alexander Mikhailovitch,?, ?, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovitch, and Duke Henry of Mecklembourg-Schwerin
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 03, 2010, 04:57:53 AM

Cannes 1898

Frist row: GD Andrei Vladimirovitch, ?, Prince Christian pf Cumberland, Duchess Cecile, GD Micheal Mikhailovitch, Prince Ernest of Cumberland, GD Boris, and Crown Prince Ferdinand of Romania
Second Row:Princess Alexandra of Cumberland, GD Helene Vladimirovna, ?, Duchess Thyra of Cumberland, GD Anastasia Mikhailovna, Queen Louise of Denmark, Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, Princess Marie of Romania, ?, ?, ?
Third Row: GD Micheal Nicolaievitch, Princess Olga of Cumberland, Princess Thyra, Duchess Alexandrine, Prince Christian, Duchess Elizabeth of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Ernest Auguste Duke of CUmberland, GD Xenia, Duke Paul Frederick of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Duchess Marie of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Prince Harold of Denmark, Duke Jean Albert of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Prince Federic of Denmar
Fourth row: GD Alexander Mikhailovitch,?, ?, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovitch, and Duke Henry of Mecklembourg-Schwerin

The photo had been posted by Brian (I think) but that's gone.

The IDs of unkhowns:

First row: GD Andrei Vladimirovitch, Prss Olga of Cumberland, Prince Christian pf Cumberland, Duchess Cecile, GD Micheal Mikhailovitch, Prince Ernest of Cumberland, GD Boris, and Crown Prince Ferdinand of Romania

Second Row:Princess Alexandra of Cumberland, GD Helene Vladimirovna, Prss Ingeborg of Sweden, Duchess Thyra of Cumberland, GD Anastasia Mikhailovna, Queen Louise of Denmark, Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, Princess Marie of Romania, GDss Marie of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin, Duchess Marie of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin


Third Row: GD Micheal Nicolaievitch, not!Princess Olga of Cumberland! that's M-lle Scalon, Princess Thyra, Duchess Alexandrine, Prince Christian, Duchess Elizabeth of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Ernest Auguste Duke of CUmberland, GD Xenia, Prss Thekla of Schwarzbourg-Rudolstadt, Duke Paul Frederick of Mecklembourg-Schwerin,  Prince Harold of Denmark, Duke Jean Albert of Mecklembourg-Schwerin, Prince Federic of Denmar

Fourth row: GD Alexander Mikhailovitch,GD Friedrich Franz IV of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin,Duke Adolf Friedrich of Mecklenbourg-Schwerin, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovitch, and Duke Henry of Mecklembourg-Schwerin
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 03, 2010, 07:11:07 AM

here s the pre wedding By Kmerov

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Christian%20X%20and%20Alexandrine/weddingalexc10.jpg

Also by him another version of the wedding picture

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Christian%20X%20and%20Alexandrine/theweddinmgsay.jpg
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 06, 2010, 08:06:24 AM
Boris. 1914

(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4521/vkborisvladimirovich191.jpg) (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/vkborisvladimirovich191.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 11, 2010, 08:19:41 AM
Vladimir Alexandrovich in Bulgaria. Im not sure of the lady behind is Maria Pavlovna

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/5875/99488.jpg) (http://img805.imageshack.us/i/99488.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on September 11, 2010, 08:38:20 AM
c1870 Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich with Nephews Nicholas and George

(http://i56.tinypic.com/2j2dtub.jpg)

Grand Duchess Marie and her jewels

(http://i54.tinypic.com/351wu1h.jpg)

the library of Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich in St Petersburg

(http://i53.tinypic.com/6eoi87.jpg)

Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 11, 2010, 08:42:09 AM
c1870 Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich with Nephews Nicholas and George

 http://i56.tinypic.com/2j2dtub.jpg

 

Those are Gd Kyrill Vladimirovich and GD Boris Vladimirovich, his sons...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on September 11, 2010, 09:01:01 AM
c1870 Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich with Nephews Nicholas and George

 http://i56.tinypic.com/2j2dtub.jpg

 

Those are Gd Kyrill Vladimirovich and GD Boris Vladimirovich, his sons...

thank you very much for correcting the ID on the picture. That was the information that came with it, but I couldn't supply the correct details.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 12, 2010, 04:40:38 PM
GD Boris Vladimirovich in the centre
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2w53800.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on September 20, 2010, 04:06:53 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/mariaphelenaport001-1.jpg)
GD Maria with Helena
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on September 20, 2010, 08:51:00 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/vladchildren001-1.jpg)
Andrei, Helena, Boris and Krill ( forgive the bad quality, scanner hasn't been working very well lately)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 22, 2010, 09:35:55 AM
A sweet detail of Gd Vladimir. Cufflinks with the images of Kyrill and Andrei!

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9062/imagen26.png) (http://img543.imageshack.us/i/imagen26.png/)

 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on October 01, 2010, 06:27:38 AM
Boris Vladimirovich
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1129/garf41.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on October 03, 2010, 10:56:37 PM
Grand Duchess Helena

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/339.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on October 04, 2010, 04:59:35 AM
GD Boris Vladimirovich
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9858/garf60.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 07, 2010, 10:49:50 AM
Gd Boris with Mayor General  S. Evreinov. St Petersburg 1914

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zntLU-A7rz8/TIzD3RqnhpI/AAAAAAAAD_U/Pz4jqysOyRE/s800/img292.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on October 08, 2010, 03:43:02 AM
Boris looks very apprehensive. Has something just gone horribly wrong?

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on October 11, 2010, 12:42:14 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdandrei1-1.jpg)
Grand Duke Andrei
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on October 11, 2010, 12:45:12 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdvladaucpic-1.jpg)
GD Vladimir. Does anyone have a better copy?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashdean on October 14, 2010, 03:18:15 PM
Gd Boris with Mayor General  S. Evreinov. St Petersburg 1914

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zntLU-A7rz8/TIzD3RqnhpI/AAAAAAAAD_U/Pz4jqysOyRE/s800/img292.jpg)
Wasn't Evreinov the brother of Grand Duchess Xenia's lady in waiting.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 22, 2010, 06:32:32 PM
He  has what we call a "drunk face" red nose and cheeks !

Gd Vladimir Alexandrovich by Zaryanko

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1494/zaryanko.jpg) (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/zaryanko.jpg/)
 

Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on November 27, 2010, 05:37:56 AM
Andrei
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5889/541071.jpg)

Boris
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8003/61551.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 10, 2010, 03:58:17 AM
Little Elena
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1856/0020r4fp.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 17, 2010, 07:47:56 AM
Andrei
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2388/post221157618776.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 21, 2010, 06:14:32 AM
Elena Vladimirovna
(http://www.art-in-exile.com/forums/photopost/data/581/Image_051.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on December 24, 2010, 03:18:21 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/vladchildrensai001-1.jpg)
 The Vladimirovitchi children with a sailor. 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 25, 2010, 03:56:23 AM
GD Boris in Japan
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2431/1210952200264441.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 25, 2010, 04:37:07 AM
How did Boris come to be in Japan?

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 26, 2010, 12:41:59 PM
Was he the Tsar's representative on the assumption to the throne of Emperor Hirohito ?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 26, 2010, 07:05:04 PM
It could be from his stop (which included Japan) on his world tour in 1902. In 1901 he had a liaison with Jeanne Aumont-Lacroix (rumor, seemingly unsubstantiated, having it that he sired a son with her). Vladimir & Marie then sent him, with the Czar’s approval, on a world tour. He left Russian in late 1901 for France and from there embarked on a tour which include stops in Egypt, India, Ceylon, Siam, French Indochina, Japan, Hawaii, California, Chicago and New York. Part of his stay in Japan was around mid-July 1902 where it was covered in the New York Times.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 26, 2010, 11:50:59 PM
From a 1912 exhibition catalogue, sculpture by Prince Troubetzkoy

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/otherromanovs/00000140jp268000.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 27, 2010, 02:36:51 AM
Eric

Hirohito did not succeed to the Japanese throne until the 1920s. Up to 1912 the reigning Emperor was Meiji (Mutsuhito), followed by Taisho (Yoshihito), who spent most of his reign under a regency.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 27, 2010, 10:34:16 AM
Maybe Boris just went on a pleasure trip to Japan like his cousin Nicholas II if not on an official mission.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 27, 2010, 11:05:46 AM
As I had posted, he was in Japan as part of a world tour (semi-official at best in that he may have carried out some minor engagements) in July 1902.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on December 28, 2010, 11:35:48 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/groupshotvladmich001-1.jpg)
Queen Alexandra standing between Grand Duke Vladimir and Grand Duchess Maria
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 28, 2010, 12:01:00 PM
Msg 40. When  and where was this picture taken?

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 28, 2010, 12:20:18 PM
Here s the answer ;-D

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographic-European-royalty-November-Heritage-Images/dp/B003941ZTO
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 28, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
Msg 40. When  and where was this picture taken?

Ann

It was part of a huge gathering of royalty (that's just a small cropping) for the wedding of Louise Orleans and Prince Carlos of the Two Sicilies (widowed brother-in-law of Alfonso XIII of Spain)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 29, 2010, 01:58:03 PM
I often wondered why Boris never got a wife ?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marc on December 29, 2010, 06:34:17 PM
I often wondered why Boris never got a wife ?

Eric,I thought he was married to Zinaida...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 30, 2010, 10:26:10 AM
Yes...I meant a ROYAL wife. I know he proposed to Ena and she turned him down. Alicky also shot him down as a groom for her eldest daughter Olga.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on December 30, 2010, 03:37:34 PM
Don't believe this has been posted yet

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/gdvladcoffin001-1.jpg)
GD Vladimir in his coffin
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 31, 2010, 04:51:21 AM
I'm not aware of any serious attempts to find royal brides for any of the Vladimirovichi. This seems a bit surprising, given that that they were all rich and highly eligible, and their mother was ambitious for them. The point is made in The Grand Dukes that no serious attempts were made to find a royal bride for Mikhail Alexandrovich either, apart from an attempt to link him up with Patricia of Connaught.

Yes, Kirill did marry Victoria Melita and Mikail fell in love with Beatrice of Coburg, but neither was 'suitable'.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 31, 2010, 12:53:19 PM
Suitable in status and standing but too close in blood according to the rudder of the Orthodox Church. The marriage of Ernie & Ducky could not have happened had they been Orthodox Christians.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 31, 2010, 02:52:18 PM
'Suitable in status and standing but too close in blood according to the rudder of the Orthodox Church.'

Precisely.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 04, 2011, 10:15:56 AM
Vladimir and his half sister Ekaterina Yurievskaya

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/397/cateryou.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/cateryou.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: rlbumich on January 05, 2011, 01:44:44 PM
Don't believe this has been posted yet

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/gdvladcoffin001-1.jpg)
GD Vladimir in his coffin

Have not seen this one.  Can we do without some of the watermarks...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 25, 2011, 02:39:57 AM
GDss Elena V. in 1896

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1-3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on February 03, 2011, 03:28:17 PM
After re-arranging of the Vladimirovitchi threads, here's a list of them.

Discussions on GD Vladimir Alexandrovitch, his children Boris, Andrei and Elena should be here. As well as general discussion on their large family.

Info on GDss Maria Pavlovna-elder is here,

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1183.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1183.0)

Info on GD Kyrill and  his family is here,

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=27.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=27.0)

and here

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=16057.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=16057.0)

On his son Vladimir

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=14998.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=14998.0)

On GDss Maria Vladimirovna

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=3179.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=3179.0)

Also don't forget to check the Part I of the Vladimirovitchi

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=181.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=181.0)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on February 06, 2011, 11:34:35 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/alixolga189798.png)
Page from the album of GD Helena. It sold in an auction a few years ago.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on March 18, 2011, 07:53:01 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/Family/0_5fb35_1530a426_L.jpg)
Grand Duchess Maria with her children
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on March 23, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I was searching through my records and realized I don't have any photos of GD Vladimir with his grandchildren? Have any been posted that I may have missed?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on March 24, 2011, 12:37:02 AM
I was searching through my records and realized I don't have any photos of GD Vladimir with his grandchildren? Have any been posted that I may have missed?

I've looked through my files and realized the same: no photos of Vladimir and grandchildren - with granddaughters actually as he unlikely took photos with Mathilda Kshesinskyaya's son, who was supposedly Andrei's son.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on March 24, 2011, 12:53:33 AM
the Grand Duke died in 1909,  his grandkids at the time were very young

Elena's daughters Olga, Elisabeth and Marina was 6, 5, and 3 years old.

Kyrill's daughters Maria and Kyra was 2 years old and  about a month old (the Grand Duke died in April, and Kyra was born in May) and of course Vladimir was not yet born until 1917, 8 years later .

I did however seen photos of Grand Duchess Vladimir with her Greek and Russian Granddaughters as babies/toddlers.

Andrei's suppose son Vladimir was 7 years old, but wasn't excepted at his imperial grandparents' home. 

Boris had an illegitimate son Boris Lacroix (born 1902), but unlike Vova, little Boris was raised alone by his mother in France and hardly known his father.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marc on March 24, 2011, 07:33:35 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/alixolga189798.png)
Page from the album of GD Helena. It sold in an auction a few years ago.

Is this someone from Mensdorff family right up or I can't see properly?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 11, 2011, 01:15:12 PM
Gd Boris

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1171/img019et.jpg) (http://img703.imageshack.us/i/img019et.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Veronica on May 18, 2011, 06:03:32 PM
Vladimir in a drawing by Zichy

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5301/vladimirpormickailzichy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on May 31, 2011, 02:54:49 PM
GDss Maria Pavlovna with her sons and daughter
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5108/ne-nai.fa/0_5ff90_1ded09b2_-1-XL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on June 03, 2011, 11:25:20 PM
GDss Helena Vladimirovna with husband, Prince NIcholas of Greece
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5005/ne-nai.fa/0_5ff8e_16cbfc1d_-1-L.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on June 04, 2011, 04:09:14 AM
GDss Helena Vladimirovna with husband, Prince NIcholas of Greece
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5005/ne-nai.fa/0_5ff8e_16cbfc1d_-1-L.jpg (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5005/ne-nai.fa/0_5ff8e_16cbfc1d_-1-L.jpg)

The photo had been posted in larger version twice in this thread:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2045.45 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2045.45)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 08, 2011, 09:01:34 AM
Gd Kyrill, Gd Boris and two othe ladies in a costume party

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4319/1305796564898161.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/1305796564898161.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 08, 2011, 12:34:14 PM
When was that taken ?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 09, 2011, 09:26:55 AM
i have absolutely no idea but i d say late 1910s.


Handtinted CDV of Vladimir

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1271/kgrhquokike3hdbyvp8bn79.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/kgrhquokike3hdbyvp8bn79.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 25, 2011, 08:38:43 AM
Gd Vladimir and Gdss Maria Pavlovna with Tsar Ferdinand I of Bulgaria. Courtesy of Lostbulgaria.com

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2025/1182w.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 25, 2011, 12:04:50 PM
I wonder how close was Miechen was to Foxy ?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on August 09, 2011, 07:56:39 PM
I wonder how close was Miechen was to Foxy ?

She was at least close enough to help arrange his 2nd marriage to her relation Eleanore of Reuss and practically be guest of honor at their wedding.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 10, 2011, 07:44:59 AM
It was she who arranged that match.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on August 17, 2011, 09:10:11 AM
Isn't that what I said??
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 17, 2011, 02:09:26 PM
Well...She played a key role in that, which is very interesting when she couldn't find good partners for her children (especially Boris & Andre)...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on August 17, 2011, 05:46:17 PM
It's interesting how Boris and Eleana tend to look like their daddy (IMO), while Kyril tends to look like Marie Pavlovna.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on August 17, 2011, 05:56:42 PM
Hi,

Well, maybe if they'd have stayed home and been good little boys and practiced their military P's & Q's, then some royal or noble families would have considered them.  As it were, they contented themselves with ballerina's and worse.

I do like Aunt Meichen but her kids - not so much, especially Boris & Andrei....

Larry
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on August 18, 2011, 07:12:09 AM
I don't particulary care for Miechen - to me she's the prototype of the Middle School Mean Girl. I kind of like Boris, though, boozer and skirt-chaser though he was - from what I've read about him I get the feeling that he was a decent person at heart.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 18, 2011, 08:15:43 AM
Underneath it all I don't think Andrei was a bad chap either (apart from his questionable role in the Anna Andersen affair). According to Greg King's book on the Russian court he took a degree in jurisprudence (quite heavy stuff).

I suspect their failure to make suitable marriages was more because they didn't want to get married than there being nobody prepared to marry them.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 18, 2011, 11:13:39 AM
I think Miechen was quite lax in her child rearing and they were almost as wild as Dagmar's kids. Boris was an international playboy who romanced Missy and asked Ena for Marriage (she wisely turned it down). Another suitor Olga Nichoievna (daughter of Nicholas II) was turned down by the outraged Tsarina. Andre was a sweet person and loyally stuck with the ballerina and even adopted her son (may or may not be his (or his cousin Serge), but definitely a Romanov).
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 18, 2011, 11:37:32 AM
Olga N was hardly a 'suitor' of Boris's - the word implies some activity on the suitor's part!

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 18, 2011, 12:59:28 PM
Yes he was, Miechen put her son's "suit" forward for marriage to the Grand Duchess. Don't think Olga would have agreed even if Alicky had not blocked it first. She seemed to be fond of her uncle Vladimir as shown in the photos.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 19, 2011, 03:15:51 AM
Eric

It was Boris who was the 'suitor', not Olga.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 19, 2011, 09:11:44 AM
Yes. I agree. Boris was the suitor and Olga the candidate for marriage.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 01, 2011, 08:59:27 AM
This young lady's name is Andrei;)

Andrei Vladimirovich
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6986/andriusza2.jpg)
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1883/andriusza.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 01, 2011, 01:53:38 PM
I did not know he was into drag too !!! He looks a lot like his sister Ellen...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on September 01, 2011, 04:42:11 PM
I agree--when the photo came up before the caption, I thought it was Helen. Does anyone know the occasion? A play, just for kicks, what?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 01, 2011, 04:46:57 PM
Not so sure...Andrei's personal life is even less well known than his wife Mathilde. His brother Kyrill was suspected to have made a gay liaison that hurried Ducky to the grave. The only womanizer of that family was Boris who had an affair with Missy (Queen Marie of Romania). 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 01, 2011, 11:40:12 PM
I agree--when the photo came up before the caption, I thought it was Helen. Does anyone know the occasion? A play, just for kicks, what?

That's one of those family performances the Romanovs so liked.I remember an entry in GD Konstantin's diary about some "play" (1890 year I think) with Andrei and Elena as actors, and Andrei was in women's dress.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 02, 2011, 04:16:22 AM
Well...I don't think you will see a pic of Nicky (Nicholas II) in a female role, although I don't think Prince Felix Yussopuv need to be persuaded to put on a dress and jewels. :-)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 02, 2011, 08:47:39 AM
Andrei once again, this time in a Chinese costume
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2474/andriusza3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on September 02, 2011, 12:50:48 PM
Andrei looks very young in the 'drag' picture - quite possibly still a teenager - and, indeed, in the Chinese picture.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 03, 2011, 01:25:12 PM
Yes. I don't know if the idea was Andrei's or Miechen's suggestions.
Title: Grand Duke Boris and his Lacroix descendants
Post by: QueenEna1887 on January 16, 2012, 07:12:33 PM
Im aware as many Romanov fans or historians that of the Vladimirovichi brothers Grand Duke Boris Vladimirovich was a womanizer of all things.  I know he's had an affair with a French woman and had a son named Jean-Boris Lacroix in 1902..I read that he later married and had two sons Boris I believe was his name b. 1928 d. 1944 and Joel b. 1931...But I dont know anything else...does anyone know about the Lacroix descendants of GD Boris?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 17, 2012, 09:36:34 AM
No idea but well worth researching.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Hector on January 18, 2012, 11:23:33 AM
Somebody with more knowledge of this stuff might be able to answer this.

So after Cyril's marriage and exile, why didn't Nicholas II make Boris the third-in-line after Alexei and Michael?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 18, 2012, 11:45:01 AM
Nicholas didn't need to make Boris third-in-line after he removed Kirill from the succession. That was automatic. In just the same way, when Savannah Phillips, the most recent British royal infant, was born, she went into the succession automatically, immediately behind her father and in front of her Aunt Zara, without any formal declarations.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2012, 03:28:19 PM
So actually, had Grand Duke Dimitri married equally, he would have been the front runner to the Russian throne due to this piece of paper in the Kremlin.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Hector on January 19, 2012, 07:08:58 AM
Wikipedia's article on Grand Duke Cyril (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Vladimirovich,_Grand_Duke_of_Russia) is pretty bad at least on this part.

Quote: However in 1908, after the death of Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=212.0) had put Cyril third in the line of succession to the Imperial Throne, Nicholas II restored Cyril to his rank of Captain in the Imperial Russian Navy and his position as aide de camp to the emperor.

I'm assuming whoever wrote that means after Alexei and then Grand Duke Michael. Yet Grand Duke Alexei was born after Grand Duke Vladimir and Grand Duke Vladimir died in February 1909, a few months after his brother Alexei.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 19, 2012, 09:21:54 AM
Hi,

Yes Hector, you're right....
The death of GD Alexei Alexandrovich should not have affected Cyril at all;  as AA was the fourth brother and Vladimir the third.
Only the death of Vladimir in 1909 would affect Cyril, Boris and Andrew.

Larry
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 19, 2012, 09:50:37 AM
Dimitri was, of course, behind his father, Paul, in the succession. Although Paul was exiled this had no effect on his rights of succession.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 19, 2012, 06:05:00 PM
Yes. I mean of his generation. Both his parents were Royal & Orthodox. Not even Kyrill can boast that (his mother converted much later)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on January 28, 2012, 08:26:11 PM
Just to ask what were the names of Grand Duke Boris's estates?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 29, 2012, 02:36:50 PM
Not sure...I don't think he sold them before he was forced to exile.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on March 12, 2012, 05:15:54 PM
Elena Vladimirovna, Grand Duchess of Russia and Princess of Greece and Denmark


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/image.jpg)
as a baby with her Mama and brothers

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/95_01-1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/socutemarch4.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/socutemarch5.jpg)

I cant wait until "Dear Ellen" is out, i been waiting for someone to write and make an album of my favorite Vladimirovichi for years!
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on March 13, 2012, 06:38:15 PM
Thank you Mandie! Those are wonderful photos, especially the first photo. I too cannot wait for "Dear Ellen" ;)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on March 14, 2012, 01:22:26 PM
does anyone have a wedding picture or portrait of Maria Pavllovna and Vladimir Alexandrovich in  1874?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2012, 09:33:53 AM
Thanks for those lovely pics of Ellen !  ;)

One thing though, why is it so hard to marry her off ? Ellen was pretty & rich, that should be a good combination for any royal suitor. Also didn't know why Max broke off the engagement, was it because of the bossiness of Miechen ? I could understand if one prefers the gentle Thyra to Miechen as mother-in-law.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on March 15, 2012, 08:48:16 PM
It was difficult to Marry Elena off due to her overly pompous and imperious behavior......it came across being very agitating and annoying hardly any royal suitor wanted a snob for a wife. But Prince Nicholas and Elena made off very well.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 16, 2012, 11:37:17 AM
Really ? Was Elena that bad ? I heard many praised her beauty (including Prince Felix Yussopov) and especially her friendship later with Kate Fox that according to her, class was not a deterrent to friendship...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on March 17, 2012, 12:54:02 AM
Yep...even her aunt Minnie the Dowager Empress found her behavior appalling.  Like mother like daughter Elena was a snob this trait even passed down to her daughter Marina, the Duchess of Kent when she referred to her sisters-in-laws as "common little scotch girls."
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on March 17, 2012, 06:41:02 AM
From what I've read, this whole branch of the family was pretty snobbish. IMHO, it stems from the fact that Vladimir always believed that he would have been a better Tsar than his older, more gauche brother Alexander III. Miechen believed this too, and tried to out-Tsaritsa Minnie and Alix at every opportunity. (One of the few things Minnie and Alix stood shoulder to shoulder on was their intense dislike of Miechen!) Vladimir and Miechen brought their children up to this, especially Eleana, IMHO, since Miechen made no secret of the fact that she wanted a brilliant match for her and not some minor Greek prince. I personally think of them as the "Vladimiro-trashy!"  ;) :D
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: darius on March 17, 2012, 06:47:24 AM
Yep...even her aunt Minnie the Dowager Empress found her behavior appalling.  Like mother like daughter Elena was a snob this trait even passed down to her daughter Marina, the Duchess of Kent when she referred to her sisters-in-laws as "common little scotch girls."

This would probably be best asked in the "George & Marina" thread, but to take advantage of Marina´s famous quote here, does anybody know how she reacted when her daughter married a common little Scotch man??

Thanks
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2012, 03:12:49 PM
I think it is not fair to trash Elena just on that. Read "From Cradle to Crown" about the sincere friendship between Elena and Kate Fox. Miechen tried to break that friendship, but eventually it failed and Kate Fox remained part of the family. Elena also opposed her brother Vladimir's grandiose gestures on "being Tsar" and broke off communications with her brother's family. The wedding of Marina & George was the healing gesture on the part of Elena. No I don't think she was that bad. Miechen was a law unto herself.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 18, 2012, 07:34:52 AM
Who was Kate Fox?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 18, 2012, 09:09:11 AM
Kate Fox was the British nanny for Elena's children. All the Nicholas girls (Olga, Elizabeth & Marina) were devoted to her and Elena trusted her implicitly. However Miechen did not like the friendship and sought to get her fired. Elena resisted this even when her mother stopped her income from Russia. Eventually Kate has to go, but the minute the coast was clear, she became reunited with the Nicholas family. In the book, Elena beamed and wave wildly once she saw Kate Fox in the crowd during a parade. I don't think that makes her a nasty person like Miechen. The thing with her was that she was bought up with a hierarchy of order in what royalty is all about and stuck to it. Indeed, she was correct in the continental sense since the royals today (Hohenzollern, Bourbon-Orleans & Romanov) continued "equal marriages". That was the case even in Britain until WW I, when George V open the way for local female aristocrats to marry into the royal family. Of course that belief in the order of things worked both ways, which explains why Elena sided with the Dowager Empress on the pretensions of her brother Cyril.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on March 18, 2012, 08:38:00 PM
I have been for the past six years collecting info and photos of Grand Duchess Ellen, whom is my favorite Russian Grand Duchess after the Tsar's four daughters OTMA. and from what I can tell of Ellen that she is an old school royal, kind and lovely but when it comes to rank and money can be a terrible snob. Her mother never let her forget that she was an "imperial Grand Duchess" of the largest Empire on Earth and the Grand Duchess Vladimir was a very ambitious and clever woman, as the 3rd Lady of the Empire after the two Empresses, she spoiled her children beyond rotten. That’s why her sons were charming yet irresponsible and snobby. Ellen was snobby too but at least she did her imperial duties well along with doing A LOT of charity works.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 19, 2012, 04:00:29 AM
'Charming yet irresponsible' seems a pretty fair description of the Vladimirovitchi boys (Vladimirotrashy - I like it!). I've just been reading Coryne Hall's 'Imperial Dancer', about Mathilde Ksessinskaya, in which Andrei comes across as a pleasant fellow, but very lightweight.

Alice of Athlone met Boris on a trip to Thailand and described him as 'very agreeable [the charm again] but he drank too much'.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2012, 12:51:44 PM
Boris almost married Alice's cousin Victoria Eugenia ("Ena") of Battenberg, but she turned him down. I don't know how Miechen would have taken it had Ena said yes ? Ena was in the same boat at Alice of Battenberg, Ellen's future sister-in-law, a product of a morganetic marriage.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on March 19, 2012, 05:35:01 PM
I think we all have an inkling of what Miechen's character would have been like if Ena said yes to Boris. The fact that 1. Ena's paternal line is morgantic 2. Ena's a granddaughter of Queen Victoria...yeah that she would have hated indeed  And as for Vladimir becoming a better Tsar than his brother Alexander III, I beg to differ.  That is a load of crap.  The Vladimirovichi's although interesting very snobby ppl, especially Elena, her first cousin Grand Duchess Olga Alex was also an old school royal but she didn't behave in such a manner, but I was glad to hear that Elena was against Cyril's proclamation as Tsar. 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 20, 2012, 12:07:35 AM
Yes. Elena did not think it is right to do so when the Dowager Empress was still alive and so much confusion at the time in Russia (the deaths were not known yet). It was bad taste, and Elena wanted no part of it. That ties in to what Elena thought was right and proper.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on March 20, 2012, 12:09:11 AM
I think the reason why MOST Romanov fans hate the Vladimirovichi branch because of the Empress Alexandra's hatred for them, personally I like them.

Snobby or not, anyone born into a rich family or be allowed to do anything they want can turn into a brat. Anastasia Nikolaievna and Alexei Nikolaievich were  spoiled brats like Vladimirovichi boys and Elena Vladimirovna, and the Empress herself was very full of herself like Grand Duchess Vladimir.  

'Charming yet irresponsible' "seems a pretty fair description" i was pretty much nailing them all with just one sentence that pop into my head. plus Andrei Vladimirovich wasn't much different from Mikhail Alexandrovich. both were nice guys, cooless of the outside world problems, both lived openly with their mistresses later wives, both had sons out of wedlock..only real difference is that MA was killed in 1918, while AV lived to old age (by Romanov standards)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 20, 2012, 04:35:18 AM
'Snobby or not, anyone born into a rich family or be allowed to do anything they want can turn into a brat. Anastasia Nikolaievna and Alexei Nikolaievich were  spoiled brats like Vladimirovichi boys and Elena Vladimirovna, and the Empress herself was very full of herself like Grand Duchess Vladimir.'

Agree entirely. I also agree that there are a lot of similarities between Andrei Vladimirovich and Mikhail Alexandrovich. Part of the problem with them, and other Grand Dukes, was that they had huge amounts of money and no serious responsibilities. Andrei was given command of the Guard Artillery, but that was a fairly nominal role, and Mikhail comanded the Blue Curassiers, but, again, doubtless his subordinates did all the work.

I note that during the war neither Andrei nor Boris even got as far as the Stavka, but spent all their time in Petrograd.

I have a nice vision of Boris laying on the charm with Alice of Athlone on the trip to Thailand, with much hand-kissing and heel-clicking and a slight but definite aroma of too much brandy!

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on March 20, 2012, 08:00:35 AM
I agree, Boris really didn't "do his bit" in the war, but he did go to Mogilev to pay his respects after Nicholas abdicated, when very few other family members did. A class move on his part, IMO - I've always thought that under that drunken playboy exterior, he was a decent person at heart.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 20, 2012, 10:01:10 AM
Boris was lazy but harmless unlike Cyril who defected to the Provincial Government. In later accounts, it was Ducky who fanned Cyril's pretension for the throne in exile.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on March 20, 2012, 11:23:25 AM
Hi,

I too do not hate nor dislike the Vladimirovitchi's.  They were all interesting and certainly they were not boring.....
They were no better nor no worse than any other branch(s) of the Romanovs and held their own with other royal and noble families in Europe...

Actually, I quite like Aunt Meichen;  much as I like Archduchess Sophie of Austria ("the only 'man' among the Austrian Archdukes")!!!!!  And, Queen Maria Cristina of Spain.......

Larry
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 20, 2012, 11:45:12 AM
Miechen is too proud. ambitious and demanding for my taste. Elena was a prettier, softer and nicer version of her. I like her much better.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on March 20, 2012, 01:49:48 PM
The only ones of the Vladimirovichi branch that I saw as good were Boris and Andrei, despite their lewd ways with the ladies they were good deep down inside and didn't seem to be overzealous and ambitious in gaining a throne like their father, mother, and eldest brother and were not overly pompous like their sister and mother. But yes Elena was very beautiful and produced such beautiful daughters. Nevertheless GD Vladimir unexpectedly close to become Emperor in 1888 when Alexander III with his wife and all of their children were involved in a train accident at Borki. Vladimir and his wife were at the time in Paris and did not bother to come back to Russia. This annoyed Alexander III who commented that if he would have died with his children, Vladimir would have ruched to return to Russia to become Emperor GD Vladimir I have a distaste for, according to Perry & Pleshakov, The Flight of the Romanovs , p.63- 67 At Alexander III's death in 1894 there were unfounded rumors that the army intended to proclaim Grand Duke Vladimir emperor in place of his nephew Nicholas II. over which Vladimir tried to have an influence, particularly at the beginning of Nicholas II’s reign.  The Vladimirovichi were greedy, power hungry, and deceptive people with the exception of Boris, Elena, and Andrei. These people were bad branches and rotten to the core to begin with. Vladimir always believed he'd be a better tsar, not with that hot temper he had.  Its a shame they weren't elected monarchs in Bulgaria, Georgia, or something of the sort, maybe if that happened that would have saved the Alexandrovichi's some grief. 
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 20, 2012, 02:14:10 PM
Yes. Both Vladimir and Miechen were both proud and ambitious. I think Boris, Andrei & Elena turned out to be "quite normal" in such circumstances. Cyril was always seen as a cold fish. Both he and Ducky bonded in their ambition for the vacant throne, especially after they were exiled. That gave meaning to their relationship, she was not a bystander in Cyril's pretensions. Like Miechen, Ducky was a full partner in their schemes.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on March 20, 2012, 07:12:33 PM
Like I said disloyal and vindictive family members and that trait still carries on today, how sad some things dont change.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 21, 2012, 01:35:01 PM
Yes. Ambition trumps loyalty in that family...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on March 22, 2012, 06:33:41 AM
However I must admit they were an interesting family...too bad they didn't rule elsewhere in Europe it would have saved a lot of drama in the Romanov family lol
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 22, 2012, 04:00:01 PM
Much as ambition goes, the younger sons were as weak as the other Romanovs (Misha & Sandro...etc). They were not as strategic as the Coburgs.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on April 24, 2012, 01:39:29 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/Russia/ellenaofrussie.jpg)
Grand Duchess Elena. early 1900s.

i wonder if there is colored one? i remember seeing one here, but dont remember where.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marc on April 24, 2012, 06:35:42 PM
I don't think there is a color version of this particular picture on the this board...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 25, 2012, 09:50:38 AM
Was it painted by a Russian painter ?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Perislov on March 10, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
'Snobby or not, anyone born into a rich family or be allowed to do anything they want can turn into a brat. Anastasia Nikolaievna and Alexei Nikolaievich were  spoiled brats like Vladimirovichi boys and Elena Vladimirovna, and the Empress herself was very full of herself like Grand Duchess Vladimir.'

Agree entirely. I also agree that there are a lot of similarities between Andrei Vladimirovich and Mikhail Alexandrovich. Part of the problem with them, and other Grand Dukes, was that they had huge amounts of money and no serious responsibilities. Andrei was given command of the Guard Artillery, but that was a fairly nominal role, and Mikhail comanded the Blue Curassiers, but, again, doubtless his subordinates did all the work.

I note that during the war neither Andrei nor Boris even got as far as the Stavka, but spent all their time in Petrograd.

I have a nice vision of Boris laying on the charm with Alice of Athlone on the trip to Thailand, with much hand-kissing and heel-clicking and a slight but definite aroma of too much brandy!

Ann

I personally have a great disdain for the Vladimirovichi line, and it has little to do with Empress Alexandra's feelings for them. Actually, most of the extended Romanov clan held similar opinions of this branch for good reason.

Another point- Grand Duke Mikhail was actually a decorated soldier in WWI, and well thought of military leader. To paraphrase wikipedia, he led an undisciplined troupe, but helped turn them an "effective" fighting force, and was rightly awarded for his service, and was also very highly thought of by those who served under him. Mikhail was again awarded for his leadership in the Brusilov Offensive.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 10, 2013, 02:03:57 PM
I think we have to be slightly careful about Mikhail's war record. The Russians followed the Prussian command system, whereby the chief of staff had equal authority with the commander (Hindenburg and Ludendorff are an example of a combination in which Hindenburg was the figurehead and Ludendorff did the work - or was it the next one down, Colonel Max Hoffmann?). This was in order to accommodate command by princes. So was it Mikhail who was an active commander (having discovered his vocation during the war), or was he a figurehead with a good chief of staff?

I don't know. James A Pratt III, do you?

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Perislov on March 10, 2013, 03:17:38 PM
I think we have to be slightly careful about Mikhail's war record. The Russians followed the Prussian command system, whereby the chief of staff had equal authority with the commander (Hindenburg and Ludendorff are an example of a combination in which Hindenburg was the figurehead and Ludendorff did the work - or was it the next one down, Colonel Max Hoffmann?). This was in order to accommodate command by princes. So was it Mikhail who was an active commander (having discovered his vocation during the war), or was he a figurehead with a good chief of staff?

I don't know. James A Pratt III, do you?

Ann

From all that I can gather, Mikhail was indeed an active commander, and very popular with his division. However, only recently have I started studying Mikhail's life, so I may be wrong on that.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Perislov on March 10, 2013, 10:16:56 PM
I think we have to be slightly careful about Mikhail's war record. The Russians followed the Prussian command system, whereby the chief of staff had equal authority with the commander (Hindenburg and Ludendorff are an example of a combination in which Hindenburg was the figurehead and Ludendorff did the work - or was it the next one down, Colonel Max Hoffmann?). This was in order to accommodate command by princes. So was it Mikhail who was an active commander (having discovered his vocation during the war), or was he a figurehead with a good chief of staff?

I don't know. James A Pratt III, do you?

Ann

Now that I have had the time to look it up, I was right. Mikhail was indeed a true 'war hero' and fought in the front lines bravely, being awarded The Cross of St. George, which is awarded independently from the royal family and required the recommendations of military personnel. Mikhail was almost reckless in his bravery and regard for his own personal safety as a member of the royal family. So no, the Vladimirovichi Dukes do not compare well when compared to GD Mikhail's impressive wartime resume.

I suggest reading The Last Tsar by Don Crawford for a nice, though not extensive, overview of Mikhail's military service.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2013, 10:37:20 PM
No comparison between Michael and Cyrill...One was loyal to the Tsar, the other was not.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 11, 2013, 03:10:14 AM
Fine. I was simply asking the question.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 11, 2013, 11:19:11 AM
I think Cyril was in the forces, but what about Boris & Andre ?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 11, 2013, 12:33:00 PM
Boris and Andrei both held high military ranks but did little in reality. After the Russo-Japanese War Kirill also did very little.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on March 11, 2013, 04:27:19 PM
I think Cyril was in the forces, but what about Boris & Andre ?

"From his birth Grand Duke Boris was appointed patron of the 45th Azov Infantry Regiment, and enrolled into the Semeonovsky Life Guards and the Life Guards Dragoon regiment, the 4th Life Guard Rifle Battalion of the Imperial Family. His education emphasized languages and military training. In 1896, at the age of eighteen, he graduated from the Nikolaievksy Cavalry School with the rank of Cornet of the Life Guards Hussar Regiment. That same year he became aide-de-camp to the Emperor...In October 1903, he enlisted in the Czar's retinue. On 26 February he left Russia for the Far East, to take part in the Russo-Japanese War. On the morning of 31 March 1904, while galloping from the heights of Dacha Hill on the rim of Port Arthur, he witnessed the sinking of the Russian battleship Petropavlovsk in which more than 600 men died; his brother Grand Duke Kyril was among the few survivors. In December 1904, for his bravery in battle he was awarded a golden weapon with the caption For Courage and was promoted to staff captain.
By 1911 he was made a colonel. In the same year he represented the Czar at the coronation of Vajiravudh the King of Siam. Between 1910–1914, he wore the uniform of Colonel of His Imperial Highness the Tsesarevich Atamansky Guards Cossack Regiment. In 1914 he became a major general.  When World War I broke out, Boris Vladimirovich was put in command of the Guards regiment of the Ataman Cossacks. It was a nominal position, and he managed to stay away from the fighting. He commanded this regiment during the War between 1914 and 1915. Thereafter, he was attached to the general headquarters and was made Field Ataman for the commander in chief on 17 September 1915. He served in the army without real distinction. His military responsibilities were only vaguely defined and he did not change his ways during the war, continuing his life of pleasure and idleness....In June 1916, he was having supper at military headquarters while drunk, and in the presence of several officers of the British Military mission, he lambasted Great Britain. His behavior was so insulting that the British Ambassador made a formal protest, and Boris was forced by the Emperor to apologize. When Nicholas II abdicated Boris was at Gatchina with Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich, who declined the throne. This marked the fall of the Russian monarchy and Boris was one of the few members of the Romanov family who went to Mogilev to pay final respects to Czar Nicholas II."



Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 11, 2013, 05:08:53 PM
That put Boris in a better light than Cyrill.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Perislov on March 12, 2013, 09:36:28 AM
Very true. Grand Duke Dmitri was also a decorated for his bravery on the battlefield in WWI. There were Romanovs who did take their military service seriously and performed their tasks admirably.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 12, 2013, 09:52:51 AM
Dimitri was indeed decorated, but he was only in the front line very briefly - during the East Prussian campaign.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on March 12, 2013, 03:34:10 PM
Kyrill:

"After graduating from the Sea Cadet Corps and Nikolaev Naval Academy, on January 1, 1904, Cyril was promoted to Chief of Staff to the Russian Pacific Fleet in the Imperial Russian Navy. With the start of the Russo-Japanese War, he was assigned to serve as First Officer on the battleship Petropavlovsk, but the ship was blown up by a Japanese mine at Port Arthur in April 1904. Cyril barely escaped with his life, and was invalided out of the service suffering from burns, back injuries and shell shock."

"From 1909-1912, he served on the cruiser Oleg and was its captain in 1912. In 1913, he joined the Maritime Division of the Imperial Guards and was made Commander of the Naval Guards in 1915."
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2013, 03:56:47 PM
So he was in the Navy too...I thought so was Sandro.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on March 12, 2013, 05:44:19 PM
The ship was sunk out from underneath him during the Russo-Japanese War.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 14, 2013, 12:30:27 PM
I guess he never went back to the Navy...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on March 14, 2013, 04:34:21 PM
My previous post indicates his subsequent Naval career.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 14, 2013, 04:49:51 PM
What division he served in the War ? Don't think he served with his two brothers.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 15, 2013, 04:16:30 AM
Eric

All this information is readily available on the forum and even on wikipedia!!!!

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on March 15, 2013, 08:05:41 AM
Eric--it's in my post. The Maritime Division of the Imperial Guards.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2013, 02:10:49 PM
Thanks. I do wonder if he told his family before he went over to the rebels. What did his family felt about him breaking his oath to the Tsar ?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on March 16, 2013, 02:07:13 AM
Thanks. I do wonder if he told his family before he went over to the rebels. What did his family felt about him breaking his oath to the Tsar ?

You can ask your question in the topic about Kyrill and his family.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2013, 01:22:39 AM
This link is about his family meaning his parents and brothers and sister. The other one is his own family. So I think is the right link.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on April 24, 2013, 12:16:07 PM
Grand Duchess Helena

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/69Ml327Po9k_zpsa566e836.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 24, 2013, 12:52:03 PM
Little Ellen smiling. Rare picture.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on May 11, 2013, 03:50:22 PM
Grand Duke Boris
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/boris-2_zps8767c6e2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 12, 2013, 11:59:11 AM
He looks like his father as a young man.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marc on February 28, 2014, 05:53:51 AM
I am reading now "Secrets of dethroned royalty" by Princess Ekaterina Radziwill and she mentions that Grand Duke Boris was very much a womanizer and that an engagement was once broken off one day before the wedding because of him...

"He(Boris) was a handsome fellow,but absolutely unscrupulous,and soon became the terror of jealous husbands,as well of watchful mothers,who were always anxious when he invited one of their daughters to dance.

Thanks to him,engagement of a young girl,very prominent in society,Mademoiselle Demidoff,was broken off almost on the eve of her wedding day.Fortunately for her,this did not permanently destroy her happiness,because she ultimately married Prince Abamelek-Lazarev,one of the richest man in Russia and lived happily with him.

But this did not prevent people of discussing,in most disapproving terms,the conduct of Grand Duke Boris."

Based on this,one could assume that the girl in question was Princess Maria Demidoff di San Donato(the same age as Boris,both born in 1877),who was married to Prince Semyon Abamelek-Lazarev.The things are interesting one more time because she was an aunt of Prince Paul of Yugoslavia(later adopted him also),who was married to Grand Duke Boris's niece Olga and whose mother Helen didn't like the fact that his mother was a Demidoff (from a book about Princess Olga)...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 01, 2014, 09:44:59 AM
I think Boris merits a book.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 01, 2014, 02:02:51 PM
The Vladimirovichi  merit a book.

Bores alone would provide plenty of titilation  but be rather boring once one was satiated with scandal.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 02, 2014, 08:01:56 PM
Grand Duke Boris was a scandal indeed...

He had an affair with Missy (Crown Princess Marie of Romania) among others and failed marriage proposals to Ena of Battenberg & his niece Grand Duchess Olga (daughter of Nicholas II).
The latter was a long shot by Miechen, Olga did not appear to be attracted to her uncle at all. In Helen Azar's book on Olga's diaries, she referred to Boris as "Uncle Boris". He was much too old for her.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 03, 2014, 03:40:21 AM
Despite all three being involved in scandal, the Vladimirovitchi brothers were different in many ways. Kirill was the calculating one, Boris was the rake, and at heart Andrei liked a quiet life.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 03, 2014, 10:59:29 PM
I don't think Kyrill was calculating, he was just cold and lazy, preferring to let his mother & wife fight for him. After Ducky's death, Kyrill found out how much he depended on his wife and followed her to the grave not long after. He cannot continue since he live off Ducky's strength.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on March 24, 2014, 03:02:18 AM
Finally a book on GDss Maria Pavlovna. Russian edition.

http://www.liki-rossii.ru/Izdan/izdan_det/MP.htm (http://www.liki-rossii.ru/Izdan/izdan_det/MP.htm)

Bio photoalbum with some really rare photos from various archives, private collections (from eurohistory, for example). Chapters on every child of Maria Pavlovna.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on March 26, 2014, 11:48:43 PM
Well it's about time. I for one, can't wait to see this book. Thanks for the link Svetabel.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on April 14, 2014, 04:36:09 PM
The Russian book on Maria Pavelovna  will be published by Eurohistory later this year possibly in English, I heard this on their Facebook page.awesomness!
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 15, 2014, 06:36:52 AM
always good to get more Russia books in English.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 22, 2014, 04:58:09 AM
Little Grand Dukes Kyril and Boris

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/2bb7aec02f9a3dc52c514fe66f4d3685/tumblr_n4e4240IZM1rlb5pyo1_1280.jpg)

From http://ella-indigo.tumblr.com/
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 22, 2014, 08:42:30 AM
Very close in age I see...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 22, 2014, 08:49:34 AM
Boris with a Mohican!!

I wonder how long that lasted.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 22, 2014, 09:56:43 AM
Its on sale on Ebay as postcard


Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on April 22, 2014, 09:58:58 AM
Hi,

Ann:
Boris did tour the USA in the early 1900's, so maybe he again adopted (adapted) a Mohican look!!  He did visit a couple of Indian reserves....

Mandie:
Yes, the book about Maria Pavlovna, already in Russian, is to be published by Eurohistory in English, sometime in the Autumn, I believe.
I have spoken to Arturo Beeche and Galina Korneva, who wrote the book, about it.
Galina and her sister, Tatiana, also wrote the "Russia and Europe" book, which Arturo had translated and published last year.  This is another good reference book to have.

Larry
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 22, 2014, 10:47:51 AM
Kirill seems to have tartan trimmings, though his parents do not exactly seem to have been pro-British.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 22, 2014, 11:10:38 PM
They like the pattern I believe, but also sure they might have British Nannies...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 23, 2014, 03:42:10 AM
Given that the parents were not known for being pro-British, I would be a bit surprised if they employed English nannies, but will check. According to Coryne Hall's 'Imperial Dancer', Andrei at any rate spoke excellent English, presumably learned in boyhood.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 23, 2014, 06:32:31 AM
British Nannies are the rage in many courts including the Austrian & Russian courts.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 23, 2014, 06:40:06 AM
British Nannies are the rage in many courts including the Austrian & Russian courts.

But not universally. I believe Konstantinovichi children had a German nanny for instance.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on April 23, 2014, 12:37:49 PM
Given that the parents were not known for being pro-British, I would be a bit surprised if they employed English nannies, but will check. According to Coryne Hall's 'Imperial Dancer', Andrei at any rate spoke excellent English, presumably learned in boyhood.

Ann

The Vladimirs did employ an English nanny for their children--Millicent "Milly" Crofts (1852-1941) from 1876. She taught the children English early on, they sang English songs and she read classic English books such as Oliver Twist to them. Her great-aunt Kitty Sutton had been nurse to the future Alexander III and it was Kitty who recommended her to the Vladimirs. Kitty was given an apartment in the Winter Palace and later a grace-and-favour place near Tsarskoe Selo and, when she died, Alexander led her funeral procession to her burial in Smolenska Cemetary.  Grand Duke Nicholas "Nixa" had his own English nurse, Jane Isherwood as did their sister Alexandra (who died young), Margaret Hughes. Alexander III and Empress Marie also employed an English nanny who was especially close to Grand Duchess Olga who adored her.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 23, 2014, 11:47:41 PM
Read Charlotte Zeepvat's excellent book on British Nannies and you will see how far they stretched in influence in these courts and spreading English.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 23, 2014, 02:47:49 PM
Grand Duke Vladimir

(http://37.media.tumblr.com/9c8d9a0ae3f5a5719162faefbd667e4a/tumblr_n215n5biVH1rqdmblo1_500.jpg)

teatimeatwinterpalace

What year was this taken and are there any other photos from this session?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on July 25, 2014, 03:22:49 PM
Grand Duke Vladimir


teatimeatwinterpalace

What year was this taken and are there any other photos from this session?

More likely 1867-1868. I think other photos have a chance to exist, as we never know exactly what our Russian Archives preserves in their storages.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 26, 2014, 01:59:20 AM
Vladimir was born in 1847, and I would say that he is around 18-20 here. The lack of face fungus suggests he is too young to grow anything convincing!

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 26, 2014, 02:27:25 PM
For comparison here is Vladimir in 1866 at 19. These were taken when his brother Alexander became engaged to Maria Feodorovna.

(http://i45.tinypic.com/izmcqs.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2e1b1ja.jpg)

Maybe its just me but his face looks fuller in these photos then he does in the other one. His cheeks looks bigger and it looks like he was already getting a double chin. Is it possible he was 15-17 in that photo, making the date around 1862-1864 instead?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 29, 2014, 09:37:34 PM
He grew plump very quickly like his wife Miechen.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on August 10, 2014, 04:00:11 PM
Boris and Elena
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/7f/0b/64/7f0b64635b8fa169ddcef4762ab41c99.jpg)

I always get nervous when I see a dog being held that way, it's like a bite waiting to happen.

Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on August 13, 2014, 03:47:37 PM
Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna and her grandchildren

with Maria and Kira of Russia
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/20/f7/93/20f7930e190a8499f87566508cc91627.jpg)


with Olga and Elizabeth of Greece
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bb/8d/06/bb8d065a0507374b748c842384a304d8.jpg)
kantor.forum24.ru

with Marina of Greece
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/f9/02/39/f9023954f71067535d1bac2a19f248b2.jpg)
kantor.forum24.ru

Anybody know what type of grandmother Maria Pavlovna was?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on August 13, 2014, 03:52:49 PM
Grand Duke Vladimir 1860
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/a1/72/82/a172828b700840108458238de296f5c1.jpg)

Grand Duke Boris Vladimirovich, colonel in the Imperial Russian Army, Dragoons Regiment
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f7/1c/78/f71c781e2d7cba1eaba569ff87e6758e.jpg)
studiolum.com

Grand Dukes Krill, Boris and Andre with their uncle Frederick, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin and unknown
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/c7/26/6b/c7266bff99ebb91db85d5e92f28ac819.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 13, 2014, 07:25:59 PM
The first image doesnt look like Vladimir, but Alexis, his brother

The unknown gent, the one sitting and bald seems to be duke Johann Albretch of Mecklenburg Schwerin, another of their uncles. And the other one doesnt look like Friedrich but Paul Friedrich
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marc on August 14, 2014, 10:52:18 AM
Anybody know what type of grandmother Maria Pavlovna was?

She loved her grandchildren,but she was very strict.Princess Olga of Greece wrote in diary that when they visited her grandmother every ceremonial should be respected,even eating everything from the plate offered for the children...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on August 14, 2014, 01:55:44 PM
She loved her grandchildren, but she was very strict.Princess Olga of Greece wrote in diary that when they visited her grandmother every ceremonial should be respected, even eating everything from the plate offered for the children...

Not surprised how strict she was, she was every bit imperious even in photographs.

Looking at her figure I think we can safely say Maria Pavlovna certainly ate everything placed on her plate and was no hypocrite in that department. I recall seeing a photograph of her at a dinner fundraiser for one of her regiments and even with a belt they couldn't hide just how big she was from all that eating.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 14, 2014, 11:29:05 PM
Indeed. The other grandmother, Queen Olga of Greece was more indulging.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 05, 2015, 07:27:28 AM
Grand Duchess Elena and Empress Alexandra, Oreanda 1902

(http://www.razumov.biz/foto/manor/oreanda/old2/oreanda_old2_1902_6_deadokey.livejournal.com.jpg)

Source: http://sr-hamlet.livejournal.com/89234.html
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2015, 03:06:44 AM
Yes. The two women were far from close.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 08, 2015, 02:09:25 PM
Actually eric, they got along very well and were friends before GD Elena's wedding and afterwards. The Empress never held a grudge against GD Elena because of her mother the grand duchess Vladimir.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on January 08, 2015, 09:30:50 PM
"Camera and the Tsars" has two quotes about Elena from MF:

Quote
She was a pretty girl, raised by an ambitious mother to be aware at all times of who and what she was. 'Poor little thing, I feel sorry for her,' wrote Dowager Tsaritsa Maria Feodorovna, her mother's old rival, 'for she is really quite sweet, but vain and pretty grandiose.' P. 90

Quote
In June 1902 Maria Pavlovna accepted defeat and allowed her daughter to accept Prince Nicholas of Greece. His aunt, Maria Feodorovna, had misgivings: 'Their upbringing and their ways of looking at things are so different and divergent. A great deal of patience will be demanded on bother sides....it is true that she has a very brusque and arrogant tone that can shock people.' P. 99

The criticism MF gives of Elena here is pretty much the same criticism people give to the whole Vladimirovichi family. I don't think MF personally disliked Elena otherwise she never would have called her, 'quite sweet.' It sounds more like a criticism of how she was raised by her mother, who as Charlotte Z. says, was her old rival. I'm sure when away from her mother Elena was quite different in many ways, more easy to get along with and I'm sure MF knew/experienced that too.

You can definitely see the 'grandiose' in that photo!
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 09, 2015, 03:28:46 AM
I don't know much about Elena, but what Maria Sisi says here makes sense.

As to 'grandiose', I could just see Elena strutting across a parade ground, on the basis of that photograph!

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on January 09, 2015, 06:53:28 PM
I have never seen this one before. It's listed as Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, the Elder

(http://40.media.tumblr.com/61ed69a26b740a40ab5902e0213191ea/tumblr_nc2bqqg2SC1rqdmblo1_500.png)
teatimeatwinterpalace.tumblr
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on January 09, 2015, 08:26:04 PM
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/bbc59f1e680cf064a323916efd5eb26c/tumblr_ng4ptxeYtw1rh07xwo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on February 17, 2015, 04:16:55 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Die-Grossfuerstin-Wladimir-von-Russland-im-Anschlag-Jaegerin-Bilddokument-1901-/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTM0/z/MBkAAOSwfcVUIaSC/$_57.JPG)

Miechen out hunting
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 19, 2015, 11:13:01 PM
She is good shot ? Never heard Minny or Alicky shooting...
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on February 20, 2015, 08:01:16 PM
She was a very good shot. I've seen photos like this of her, Archduchess Auguste, the Countess of Paris and others actually out shooting. Alexandra sometimes accompanied Nicholas ona hunt but I don't know if I ever have seen a photo of her shooting. Same with Marie Feodorovna.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 20, 2015, 09:17:59 PM
Can imagine her with rife at hand fighting the revolutionaries had she been 30 years younger. She had a more aggressive streak than Minny or Alicky.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 03, 2015, 03:24:31 AM
(http://cs622921.vk.me/v622921079/30374/1Y5Ejdalrkk.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 15, 2015, 09:38:54 PM
Boris, Elena, Kirill and Andrei with the cousin Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/69/67/7c/69677cbb401e5aaf6177a30216cf2ce8.jpg)

Andrei, Kirill and Boris
(https://en.wiki2.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Grand_Dukes_Andrei,_Kirill_and_Boris_Vladimirovich_in_their_childhood.jpg/im258-400px-Grand_Dukes_Andrei,_Kirill_and_Boris_Vladimirovich_in_their_childhood.jpg)

Boris with Alfonso XIII during an official visit to Spain in 1908
(http://i34.tinypic.com/6zbq6s.jpg)
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o458/manuesevilla3/CasaRealEspana/AlfonsoXIII/1908GdBoris3_zps6742575a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 15, 2015, 09:49:53 PM
Elena, Victoria Feodorovna, Maria Pavlovna, Kirill and Dmitri Pavlovich
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EaKb8ZZ0aj0/VLa3aTIAZ8I/AAAAAAAAKQU/3tm4XErskWY/s1600/9225.png)

Boris
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oGBet6bQkOU/VLa3dBxdGYI/AAAAAAAAKQo/q9FKO0ZFbCA/s1600/orl.png)

http://godsandfoolishgrandeur.blogspot.com/2015/01/imperial-picnics-circa-1913.html
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 18, 2015, 04:09:00 AM
In the upper photo, Kirill is wearing a black armband, so someone must have recently died - could it be his father or perhaps Alexei Alexandrovich?

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on July 18, 2015, 09:20:14 AM
In the upper photo, Kirill is wearing a black armband, so someone must have recently died - could it be his father or perhaps Alexei Alexandrovich?

Ann

The year is 1911-1913 , so unlikely father or uncle.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 18, 2015, 12:37:00 PM
I'm inclined to think 1911 onwards, as Dimitri looks to be wearing officer's shoulder boards, but the mourning is interesting. Did any member of Marie Pavlovna's family die in that period?

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 18, 2015, 02:57:44 PM
Perhaps Kirill is wearing one for an army friend from his regiment? Do they wear them for those occasions as well?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 19, 2015, 04:00:37 AM
VM looks to be wearing mourning, and MP a black sash.

Ann
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Rodney_G. on July 19, 2015, 09:30:07 PM
Possibly for Peter Stolypin, though I doubt it.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 20, 2015, 09:24:13 PM
Maria Pavlovna and her children at the wedding of her niece Alexandrine (daughter of GD Anastasia Mikhailovna) to Crown Prince Christian of Denmark in Cannes, 1898.  

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Mkzb1-AkriY/UxR3Dq9_xEI/AAAAAAAAK_Y/fzxj3zB3DgI/s1600/chr-x-wedding.jpg)

Nice mix of Russian, German and Danish royals. Anybody have a better quality version?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: mitia on August 11, 2015, 07:18:44 AM
On the painting in colour showing Grand Duchess Vladimir somehow relaxing in a drawing room, it is interesting to notice that a brindle French Bulldog, wearing its typical badger collar, is painted just next to the lovely bunch of flowers on the left hand  and low corner of the painting. That painting sold at the Paris russian aution sale last spring and is at the moment displayed at the exhibition about the Vladimirs (especially Kiril and Victoria Melita) in Saint-Briac France. Most of the times, Miechen is represented with a pied (black and white) French Bulldog, unusual to see her with a brindle (blackish with more or less fawn hair and sometimes a white patch under the neck) French Bulldog !
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on August 16, 2015, 03:11:42 AM
(http://cs621627.vk.me/v621627079/37f48/AjJN7-uJbBE.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 03, 2015, 02:07:31 AM
Elena Vladimirovna

(http://cs625121.vk.me/v625121079/3fde9/-af7Vsf7gLQ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 04, 2015, 02:52:09 AM
Victoria Fyodorovna

(http://cs629104.vk.me/v629104079/1a478/F7Rvd4lpaR8.jpg)

(http://cs629104.vk.me/v629104079/1a465/a28lSIeA7u0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 15, 2015, 04:18:19 AM
Does anyone know the author of this wonderful Elena Vladimirovna portrait?

(http://36.media.tumblr.com/547265d54730ff5ad878a1fab9b1c020/tumblr_nxuptuKWi81rh07xwo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 15, 2015, 03:28:24 PM
If im not wrong, it was painted by Henry Jones Thaddeus (1859-1929)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on November 24, 2015, 10:42:58 AM
Is there s picture or painting of Miechen & Wladimir's son Grand Duke Alexander Vladimirovich of Russia (31 August 1875 – 16 March 1877)?
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 01, 2015, 01:57:42 PM
Grand Duke Boris
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/boris-2_zps8767c6e2.jpg)

This isnt Boris, but his brother Andrei.
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 13, 2016, 02:43:16 AM
Grand Duke Vladimir by Makarov

(https://pp.vk.me/c627626/v627626516/434a7/mnvKxDo_Zjs.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 27, 2016, 08:39:19 AM
Grand Duke Andrei, 1916

(http://s003.radikal.ru/i201/1508/c7/2dc3fc8577da.jpg)

http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/pkfnf/post369896938/
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on July 18, 2016, 04:35:46 AM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/0d7a38d5d52cb90f2aad04e80d23e16c/tumblr_oai0f5RUfP1rh07xwo1_540.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 04, 2017, 02:36:42 AM
Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/b13d/b_u42pDt99o.jpg)

https://vk.com/house_of_romanov
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 11, 2017, 04:37:54 AM
Grand Duchess Elena

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/dc9f/IEx1PvHSoQ8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 11, 2017, 04:39:29 AM
Grand Duchess Maria

(https://pp.userapi.com/c636721/v636721110/58bb7/DVYymD9jc7U.jpg)