Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Habsburgs => Topic started by: KarlandZita on December 18, 2009, 09:13:23 AM

Title: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on December 18, 2009, 09:13:23 AM
Childhood photos of Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/eiza.jpg)
First portrait

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1895.jpg)
In 1895

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zia.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/firstportrat.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/6years.jpg)
At 6 years old

Courtesy from the Beatification site of Empress Zita.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on December 19, 2009, 08:22:18 AM
Zita and her native Family :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/aers.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 19, 2009, 03:41:19 PM
Well...one could say a family of nuns too...so many took the veil.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on December 19, 2009, 04:59:33 PM
Yes, three of her sisters became nuns, faith was always important in her family, and of course in her own life too.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Maximilano on December 23, 2009, 04:36:21 PM
I only thought about the fact that family rules are being much more strict towards males than females..............

Family marriage rules were for the members of the house of Austria. Any archduchess marrying outside the house got a new name and did not belong to the house anymore. Widowers kept their title unless they re married.

With men it was different, the woman got the Habsburg name and title if the marriage was not morganatic; if it was, on a best case scenario,  they could under special circumstances choose a title offered by the Emperor.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 06, 2010, 11:27:36 AM
Zita baby :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/prinzessinzita.jpg)

Zita with her siblings Xavier, Felix and Francesca :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/xavierfelixzitafrancesca.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 12, 2010, 02:22:09 PM
Two others childhood photos of Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/KAS.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/7yearsoldwithsisterirene.jpg)
At seven years old with her younger sister Irene
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: *§Yue§* on January 14, 2010, 04:06:11 PM
I like very much Zita!
It's strange, but her funeral made me cry... I think because I saw in these images the real end of centuries of history!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 15, 2010, 12:23:48 PM
Childhood photos of Erzherzog Karl Franz Josef :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/dkiy.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/ykq.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/sck.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/mjky.jpg)
With his mother Maria Josefa

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/karlfranzjosef.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 15, 2010, 01:02:02 PM
A lovely boy indeed!!! ;-D
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 15, 2010, 01:07:46 PM
Zita and son Otto

(http://i45.tinypic.com/r0xb0n.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 15, 2010, 01:11:59 PM
Otto looks so alike to his father in that photo...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 15, 2010, 02:48:12 PM
A lovely boy indeed!!! ;-D

Yes, but already with the  famous "lip" of Habsburgs.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 15, 2010, 02:50:31 PM
Otto looks so alike to his father in that photo...

And also with some resemblance of the brothers of Zita.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Paola on January 16, 2010, 01:51:21 PM
Also something of his uncle, the King of Saxony. I think his father Otto was more handsome.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Princess Susan on January 17, 2010, 04:13:32 AM
Zita and son Otto

(http://i45.tinypic.com/r0xb0n.jpg)

In my view, Otto resembled more features of his mother- or mother's side of family.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Princess Susan on January 17, 2010, 04:21:05 AM
A lovely boy indeed!!! ;-D

Yes, but already with the  famous "lip" of Habsburgs.

Karl reminds me completely Maria Josepha in face, but he really had habsburg's lip, although his father Otto didn't.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 20, 2010, 02:02:20 PM
Portrait of Zita little :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/portazita.jpg)

Felix, Françesca, René, Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/felixfrancoiserenzita.jpg)

Sixtus, Karl Franz Josef and Zita in Pianore :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/sixtuskarlfjzitainpianore.jpg)

Karl and Zita knew and frequented since chilhood.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Princess Susan on January 22, 2010, 05:05:01 AM
I like very much Zita!
It's strange, but her funeral made me cry... I think because I saw in these images the real end of centuries of history!

Yes, it was indeed touching. Although she passed away in 1989, her funeral had glance of the old monarchy.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Princess Susan on January 22, 2010, 05:07:10 AM
The last pictures are very nice and for me all new! :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 22, 2010, 04:54:04 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/7yearsoldwithsisterirene.jpg)
At seven years old with her younger sister Irene

Zita didn't have a sister called Irene. I guess the child next to Zita is one of her younger brothers, Felix or René. They used to have long hair and looked like girls.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 23, 2010, 04:38:09 AM
Karl Franz Josef as young Archduke :


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/karl.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/ykfj.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 23, 2010, 04:54:35 AM
Indeed, and the child in the photo look like more Felix than René.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 31, 2010, 01:33:04 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/firstportrat.jpg)
Childhood photo of Zita

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ziasiblings.jpg)
At the extreme right, front, with her brothers and sisters Sixte, Adelaide, Franzisca and Xavier

These pictures are misidentified. In the first picture we can't see little Zita, but her sister Isabelle.

Second picture: Zita and René are standing in the back, Felix, Maria Antonia and Isabelle are sitting in the front. (There are quite a few pictures from this sitting.)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on February 05, 2010, 10:57:22 AM
Karl and Zita in 1913 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1911-1.jpg)

Zita at public events in 1913 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitafur.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zizai.jpg)

Zita and Karl again in 1913 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1913.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Rani on February 06, 2010, 02:16:09 PM



(http://i45.tinypic.com/2lazoxx.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 07, 2010, 03:15:06 AM



About the second one, do you know in which occasion was it taken?...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Rani on February 07, 2010, 04:42:10 AM
I think it was Karl Ludwigs marriage on 17 January 1950 to Princess Yolande of Ligne.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on February 08, 2010, 11:14:11 AM
Zita visiting the Prado's museum in Spain, 1924 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zra.jpg)

With the Queen Mother Marie Christine :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/fgvmc.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zrsd.jpg)

With King Alphonse XIII :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaalphonse.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/a13z.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zsfg.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on February 12, 2010, 01:59:17 PM
Karl, from childhood to adulthood :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/th_karlk.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/?action=view&current=karlk.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/th_erzk.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/?action=view&current=erzk.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/th_carlfranz.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/?action=view&current=carlfranz.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/th_ykfjk.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/?action=view&current=ykfjk.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/th_kkjh.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/?action=view&current=kkjh.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/th_karlfj1914.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/Erzherzogs/?action=view&current=karlfj1914.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 20, 2010, 07:35:44 AM
(http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/45849/2223158910101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2223158910101857556mtGVHA)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on March 21, 2010, 12:42:38 PM

Zita at public events in 1913 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zizai.jpg)


Another and better version of this pic :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitahat.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on April 09, 2010, 11:49:37 AM
From left to right : Francesca and Zita with one of their brother (I don't konw who exactly) :

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6426/33343456.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/33343456.jpg/)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 09, 2010, 03:32:45 PM
Which one is which ?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on April 10, 2010, 06:27:46 AM
Which one is which ?

At the extreme left : Francesca and at the extreme right : Zita.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: REMI on April 10, 2010, 09:45:25 AM
From left to right : Francesca and Zita with one of their brother (I don't konw who exactly) :

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6426/33343456.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/33343456.jpg/)

I think that the child between the two sisters is Felix (Felice), future prince of Luxembourg, born in 1893, one year after Zita.

REMI
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on April 10, 2010, 10:57:13 AM
Mamma mia, how old is the boy in that picture!? Allright, it was common for male toddlers and babies to wear dresses at the time, but the boy in this picture looks uncomfortably old! It's especially striking since he doesn't have long girly curls, but a very boyish haircut.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on April 10, 2010, 02:21:32 PM
One of the first public appearances of Karl and Zita after the death of Franz Joseph, in January 1917 :

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3934/vcfg.jpg) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/vcfg.jpg/)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9035/19janury1917.jpg) (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/19janury1917.jpg/)

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3143/19717jal.jpg) (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/19717jal.jpg/)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on April 12, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Mamma mia, how old is the boy in that picture!? Allright, it was common for male toddlers and babies to wear dresses at the time, but the boy in this picture looks uncomfortably old! It's especially striking since he doesn't have long girly curls, but a very boyish haircut.

No wonder in such dresses even for elder than toddlers : ). Such was the time - boys in long laced dresses and very often with long curls.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on April 15, 2010, 07:23:03 AM
Kaiser Karl I in Bukovica (Croatia).

(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/44297/2789165670101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2789165670101857556IiXFow)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on April 17, 2010, 08:31:24 AM
(http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/26256/2813423180101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2813423180101857556UdHQYt)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on April 24, 2010, 09:34:48 AM
Bozen visit, 22 April 1917 :


(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8783/bozentern.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/bozentern.jpg/)

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8160/bbkp.jpg) (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/bbkp.jpg/)


(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9135/suitebozenbesuch.jpg) (http://img341.imageshack.us/i/suitebozenbesuch.jpg/)

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5523/kpinbozen.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/kpinbozen.jpg/)


(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7688/bozenbis.jpg) (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/bozenbis.jpg/)

(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8716/bozenbesuch.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/bozenbesuch.jpg/)

(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2448/bozen22april1917.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/bozen22april1917.jpg/)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on May 16, 2010, 02:34:25 PM
The young couple Karl and Zita in 1913-1914 :

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1990/inl.jpg) (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/inl.jpg/)

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4834/1913.jpg) (http://img91.imageshack.us/i/1913.jpg/)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1354/ziakarlo.jpg) (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/ziakarlo.jpg/)

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2525/zitamariajosefakarl1914.jpg) (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/zitamariajosefakarl1914.jpg/)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on May 16, 2010, 02:36:10 PM
Zita and Carl engaged :

(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/254/erzkfjz.jpg) (http://img255.imageshack.us/i/erzkfjz.jpg/)

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6038/aika.jpg) (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/aika.jpg/)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 18, 2010, 11:44:15 AM
Old Zita and kids

(http://i45.tinypic.com/8yvoup.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on May 24, 2010, 09:09:12 AM
The Imperial couple in Krakau in 1917 :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/390565krak.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=390565krak.jpg)

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/896924krakau.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=896924krakau.jpg)

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/197979krakau54.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=197979krakau54.jpg)

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/252191krakaus.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=252191krakaus.jpg)

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/429550krakausbes.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=429550krakausbes.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 24, 2010, 09:10:38 AM
Zita and some of her kids

(http://i49.tinypic.com/2iqbo89.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Rani on May 24, 2010, 05:25:06 PM
(http://i46.tinypic.com/344cmzt.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 25, 2010, 07:11:59 AM
Zita and kids at Karl`s funeral.

(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2474/var525.jpg) (http://img241.imageshack.us/i/var525.jpg/)

 

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on May 26, 2010, 01:55:48 PM
Kaiser Karl und Kaiserin Zita in Constantinople, 1918 :

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/225/inconstantinople.th.jpg) (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/inconstantinople.jpg/)

(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6444/kaiserconstantinople.th.jpg) (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/kaiserconstantinople.jpg/)

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2585/kaisrininconstantinople.th.jpg) (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/kaisrininconstantinople.jpg/)

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3977/zcit.th.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/zcit.jpg/)

(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7875/zitakarlinturkey.th.jpg) (http://img294.imageshack.us/i/zitakarlinturkey.jpg/)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: violetta on May 27, 2010, 05:40:36 AM
karl and zita`s visit in poland, 1911 or 1912. the pictures come from the national digital archives in warsaw but formerly these pictures were stored in cracow, then belonging to the austo-hungarian monarchy

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/carl-and-zita-1911-12-2.jpg)

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/carl-and-zita-1911-12.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 27, 2010, 06:38:30 AM
Karl and mother Maria Josefa. Miramare

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8369/img959.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on May 27, 2010, 12:41:47 PM
At Franz Joseph's burial
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/Royalty/FJBurial.jpg)
With the pope (John Paul II?)
Old Zita with the Pope (http://diepresse.com/images/uploads/7/8/c/460684/thumbDi_papst20090313131652.jpg)

With her son
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/Royalty/ZitaAndSon.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 27, 2010, 12:44:16 PM
A mature Zita


(http://i50.tinypic.com/20gfxbs.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: violetta on May 27, 2010, 03:08:36 PM
reply #325

it was of course john paul II
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on May 28, 2010, 02:10:51 PM
reply #325

it was of course john paul II

Thanks for confirming it violetta ;-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on June 01, 2010, 02:03:36 PM
Zita and her mother, 1917 :

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/pics/953881ziamother1917.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=953881ziamother1917.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 02, 2010, 03:00:18 PM
Zita looks wel ;-) Where are they?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 13, 2010, 10:12:28 AM
Karl on horseback, if I recall correctly, there is also a modern painting based on this photo.

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/21054/2374634380101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2374634380101857556WeZNed)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 13, 2010, 10:26:53 AM
Engagement picture

(http://i47.tinypic.com/dzcccj.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on June 13, 2010, 11:06:19 AM
Karl Franz Joseph, standing, with his mother Maria Josepha and his brother Maximilien :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/55120mariajosefamaxcarlfranzjoseph.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=55120mariajosefamaxcarlfranzjoseph.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 14, 2010, 08:00:36 AM
another from the same source, the ANNO


Karl and some fellows

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1872/16107663.jpg) (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/16107663.jpg/)

 


Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on June 15, 2010, 06:32:02 AM
Another of Maria Josepha and her sons :

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/pics/858662mjkfm.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=858662mjkfm.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 15, 2010, 07:38:42 AM
Also from the ANNO. Karl and father , Otto Franz

 (http://i49.tinypic.com/2vnnk1t.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 18, 2010, 08:57:21 AM
This gotta be one of the cuttest and sweetest pictures i ve seen of Zita and her kids

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9202/happyzita.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/happyzita.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Glastonbury on June 23, 2010, 08:04:15 AM
May God bless them all. Wonderful, dutiful family so caring of their and all people. I'd make Hi&RH Otto Emperor now it it were up to me.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 01, 2010, 05:24:48 PM
Zita
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/RoyalFamilies/Zita.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 02, 2010, 07:22:51 AM
Sweet father and son image. Courtesy of the ANNO

(http://i45.tinypic.com/furfvp.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Maximilano on July 02, 2010, 07:20:48 PM
Congratulations to you all. This are lots and lots of fine and wonderfull pictures.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: REMI on July 03, 2010, 08:50:55 AM
Engagement picture

(http://i47.tinypic.com/dzcccj.jpg)

Who are these 15 persons?  Can anyone identify them?
From left to right, I recognise: 1.?; 2. Prince Saverio of Bourbon Parma; 3. ?; 4. Archduchess Maria Josepha of Saxony, Charles'mother; 5. Princess Zita; 6.?; 7. Archduke Charles; 8, 9 and 10 ???;11. Maria Antonia, duchess of Parma; 12.?; 13. Princess Francesca-Giuseppa of Bourbo-Parma; 14. Prince Sisto of Bourbpn Parma; 15. Don Jaime of Bourbon, duke of Anjou and Madrid ?
This pic was taken at the Villa delle Pianore, near Viareggio.

REMI

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on July 04, 2010, 11:51:59 AM
Zita and Karl in Swiss Exil :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kzinswissexile.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 04, 2010, 12:36:42 PM
Zita and Archduke Roberto

(http://i49.tinypic.com/vp7n85.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 05, 2010, 02:24:10 PM
For commemorate their coronation
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Palace/KarlAndZita.jpg)
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Palace/KarlZita2.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 06, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
Zita
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/RoyalFamilies/PortraitZita.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 15, 2010, 02:59:48 PM
At Franz Joseph's funeral but in other angle...
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/Queens/AH.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on July 18, 2010, 11:56:56 AM
Zita and all her children :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaandkids.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/withallchilds.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/empressand8childs.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/childs192526.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/all.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaand8kids.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zak2.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 10, 2010, 03:41:21 PM
Colored verssion of their wedding photo
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Queens/1911.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 06, 2010, 02:40:21 PM
Commemorative medal of Franz Joseph's death showing the Emperor Karl standing up near FJ's deathbed
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Royals/fj-k-a.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 07, 2010, 08:39:51 AM
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7275/y1pudl44ijmspxv31wuy97a.jpg) (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/y1pudl44ijmspxv31wuy97a.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on September 12, 2010, 10:46:55 AM
Kaiserin Zita in Schonbrunn, june 1917 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/qwc1917.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/schonbrunn.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitakarlschonbrunn.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on September 14, 2010, 08:08:14 AM
Engagement, June 13, 1911, Villa del Pianore :

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5293/vbgo.jpg)
By karlandzita (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/karlandzita) at 2010-09-14
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on September 14, 2010, 11:46:44 AM
Engagement, June 13, 1911, Villa del Pianore :

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5293/vbgo.jpg)
By karlandzita (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/karlandzita) at 2010-09-14

On this one they indeed seem happy.But on the last one... i think it was sunny and thats why their faces look so.. "cheerfull" :) I speak for Zita and Karland... The other people... i'm not commenting it's obvious on their faces.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on September 14, 2010, 12:17:37 PM
By marrying the heir in second of the Austro Hungarian Empire, Zita was a prestigious marriage that was almost unexpected for her. The joy of her family was also proud. But her brothers and sisters, especially Francesca which Zita was very close, would certainly be sad at the prospect of soon being separated from their sister.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 14, 2010, 01:29:31 PM
Yes...but so many of them became nuns anyway (both full & half-sisters). She was also the half-sister to Princess Maria Luisa of Bulgaria. She was thus half-aunt to Boris III.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on September 25, 2010, 08:26:45 AM
Zita and her sister Franzisca -at right- :

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/pics/836155cx.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=836155cx.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on September 28, 2010, 03:38:41 PM
Zita in 1914 :

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/972315055.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=972315055.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on September 29, 2010, 04:06:32 AM
It looks as though this picture was taken early in the war, and Zita is visiting one of the medical units run by the Knights of Malta.

Ann
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 30, 2010, 03:24:33 PM
Commeorative medal of Karl and Zita's wedding
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Palace/karlandzita-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Pezzazz on October 05, 2010, 07:37:00 AM
(http://oi53.tinypic.com/ipv9y9.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Pezzazz on October 06, 2010, 10:08:10 AM
No guesses!   ;)   They are listed as Archdukes Charles, Felix and Rudolph of Austria, sons of Empress Zita, when they served in the "Austrian Battalion" in Indiana during WWII.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: James_Davidov on October 12, 2010, 07:07:41 AM
I was wanting to know a little about the Habsburgs life in exile, in Switzerland.  I read that the Florentine diamond was stolen from the family sometime between the wars, and wondered how wealthy the family remained, was/is there a residence?

James
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 19, 2010, 08:26:08 AM
Young Kaiser

(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2043/k08kar01402.jpg) (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/k08kar01402.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on October 20, 2010, 01:37:58 AM
Young Kaiser




 

Amazing resemblance to his mother and Saxon relatives!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 25, 2010, 12:54:25 PM
I thought it was a saxon prince but seeing the rest of the pictures i realized it was KArl


Here another

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3412/k08kar01401.jpg) (http://img825.imageshack.us/i/k08kar01401.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on October 29, 2010, 02:19:38 PM
Charles and Zita in Madeira, 1922 :

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/pics/684326rz.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=684326rz.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 29, 2010, 03:16:31 PM
With their children

(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3653/ftgjhjjjj.jpg) (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/ftgjhjjjj.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on November 18, 2010, 02:04:55 PM
Karl and Zita in Bregenz, 1917 :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/510570bregenz1917jpg.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=510570bregenz1917jpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on November 20, 2010, 07:58:35 AM
In Budapest, 1917 :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/170851budapest1917jpg.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=170851budapest1917jpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Zukunftsseele on December 25, 2010, 07:01:54 AM
Are there anymore pics that show their kids when they were older?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 25, 2010, 10:57:29 AM
i have plenty but i cant find them right now =(

In the meantime...

This was was on sale somewhere (since the watermark)

Zita, her two eldest kids and mother in law, Maria Josepha

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9246/img0002bo.jpg) (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/img0002bo.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Zukunftsseele on December 26, 2010, 05:38:12 AM
Wow, thanks for the pic. I have never seen Maria Josepha in older age before. Great! :-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on January 09, 2011, 06:35:37 AM
Karl and Zita with foreign royals :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/536995headquaters.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=536995headquaters.jpg)
Meeting between emperor Karl and Kaiser Wilhelm II during the war

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/788074zitaindresden.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=788074zitaindresden.jpg)
Zita in Dresden

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/787233zitakoniginvonbayern.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=787233zitakoniginvonbayern.jpg)
Zita and Queen of Bavaria
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: violetta on January 16, 2011, 03:59:48 PM
visiting troops in przemysl,now poland,forerly austro-hungary

(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/carl-visitingtroopsprzemysl.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 01, 2011, 10:08:17 AM
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9655/57349680.jpg) (http://img832.imageshack.us/i/57349680.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 25, 2011, 01:48:47 PM
The last King and Queen of Hungary
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/reyeshungaros12.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Rani on February 25, 2011, 04:34:38 PM
http://epa.oszk.hu/00000/00030/03021/pdf/VU_EPA00030_1911_44.pdf

The wedding
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Zukunftsseele on February 25, 2011, 05:16:41 PM
Archduchess Adelheid
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/305500.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 05, 2011, 08:04:28 AM
Karl, Zita, their two eldest kids and Archduchess Maria Josepha.

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9758/iygi.jpg) (http://img818.imageshack.us/i/iygi.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on April 30, 2011, 08:43:25 AM
Charles and Zita in Funchal, Madeira, 1921 :

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/160184charleszitafunchal.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=160184charleszitafunchal.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 31, 2011, 08:38:56 AM
Karl as a kid

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8610/lsdfls.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on June 23, 2011, 12:29:54 PM
Karl and Zita in 1918 or 1919 :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/901102KaiseKarlinDisentis.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=901102KaiseKarlinDisentis.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 23, 2011, 02:03:12 PM
I like his coat very much ! :-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on June 26, 2011, 07:27:10 AM
Certainly, the civil suit became well to Charles, contrary to number of his royal cousins who had look only in uniform.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 26, 2011, 11:23:17 AM
Karl was an interesting fellow, although I don't think of him as a saint (which he is in the Catholic Church)...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 26, 2011, 11:50:33 AM
Karl has not reached canonization, therefore his not a Catholic saint. He is "blessed" worthy of veneration.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 26, 2011, 12:37:08 PM
Thanks for clearing that out. My problem is that how is he "worthy" of veneration ? 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 26, 2011, 12:59:43 PM
Eric. as I understand it, you are Orthodox.  Well, "veneration" means the same thing in both faiths. I was Eastern rite, or Uniate.
 Karl is worthy because he  was known to be a "peacemaker". I am sure you know his history.  In the Roman Church, he is worthy and faithful, but not a conduit to pray to. [or through. to be theollogically correct] So, it is OK to light a candle in his memory, just as one might do for anyone one  admires. However, he is not to be expected to intervene in your prayers.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 26, 2011, 01:24:11 PM
Well...I think you need two miracles to be made into a saint in the Catholic Church. Like they are fast tracking Pope John Paul II. I think he is on the steps of being made into a saint, although you say he is not there yet...In the Orthodox Church, if you die for your faith (like Ella) or in your faith (like the family of Nicholas II) you became a saint.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 26, 2011, 01:37:39 PM
You are mistaken about the miracles, Eric. Anyone who dies in the Faith is a saint. With or without canonization. It just means  you [or whomever] is in communion with god in heaven. Sainthood is an honorific title. A recognition, if you like.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 26, 2011, 01:53:18 PM
Maybe in the Orthodox Church but most certainly not in the Catholic Church. The recent veneration of Pope John Paul II is quite public and the two miracles are needed in the Catholic Church, you are quite mistaken about that. There are quite a few reports on that.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 26, 2011, 02:06:05 PM
Eric, I have studied and taught Catholic theology and doctrain for a LONG time. The miracle nonsense is mere PR. Do NOT tell me I am mistaken. If you care to read the tabloids and get your information that way, so be it. However, I can cite the Catholic encyclopaedia  if you like.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 26, 2011, 02:11:41 PM
That is always been written about that...including sources from the Vatican (even documentaries which they talk about this subject). If you say the Vatican is lying to the rest of the world about what they consider saints, I will take your word on it. I have been born a Catholic and went to Catholic schools and maybe they are all lying to me too, it is no sweat since I left that particular church.  :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 26, 2011, 02:39:36 PM
I am quite aware of what the Vatican says. If you want an argument about this, I can best you easily.  For instance, how do 267 Ugandan martyrs come up with 2 miracles EACH ?
 But, back to Karl. He is a venerable man, faith or not. He tried to  bring an end to a horrid war, was betrayed and  bore his burden in a Christlike manner. [sound familiar?]  Therefore he is Blessed and worthy of example to others.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 27, 2011, 05:38:29 PM
Well...I just want to say that in the Greek/Russian Church that if you die a martyr's death like Ella, you are automatically a saint. Otherwise, according to what the Catholic Church says, you need two miracles to be consider a saint. It is the same deal with Mother Theresa & Pope John Paul II, both did NOT die a martyr's death.  That is what the information given to us by the Vatican. So I was a bit curious about the situation with Karl, since he did not die a martyr's death, so he will need two miracles (according to what information the Catholic Church gives out-I have a lot of info on this). However if you say the Catholic Church is giving wrong info out, then we do not have to debate this any longer. 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 27, 2011, 05:57:17 PM
I am not saying the Church is giving out wrong information. The miracle business is just an addition, not a requirement. None of the apostles were canonised, nor did they preform miracles.  Most so-called saints have not. As I said, ANYONE who does in the faith, in good order, is  a saint. All it means is that they are in the presence of god. Some are worthy of recognition and veneration. Others remain basically anonymous. One does not have to die a martyr. It helps, but is not necessary.
 Now I am finished discussing this with you.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 27, 2011, 06:06:40 PM
Lets go back to Karl, saint or not. He was an Emperor and a good man. That is enough for me. I read somewhere that Karl was very religious because of his mother Josefa of Saxony.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on July 02, 2011, 05:23:14 AM
 Zita and Charles going out of a church after the celebration of a mass to Funchal :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/862350gdemessefunchal1921.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=862350gdemessefunchal1921.jpg)

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/193103funchal1921.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=193103funchal1921.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Vecchiolarry on July 02, 2011, 09:48:44 AM
Hi,

Is there a campaign (is that the right word?) to have Empress Zita beatified and/or canonized also along with her husband?

Just asking???

Larry
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Greenowl on July 02, 2011, 10:44:06 AM
Hi Larry,

yes indeed, there is an 'Association for the Beatification of Empress Zita' at the Abbaye Saint-Pierre, 1, Place Dom Gueranger, 72300 Solesmes, France. I believe it is managed/organized by the Bishop of Le Mans.

Cheers,
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Vecchiolarry on July 02, 2011, 11:04:05 AM
Hi,

Thanks Greenowl, for your swift and very informative reply.
I think I will write to them and support their effort(s) to speed Zita on her way.  I greatly admire her and she lead an exemplory life in spite of all the trials thrown her way.

Cheers to you also,
Larry
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Greenowl on July 03, 2011, 03:11:55 PM
No problem Larry, always glad to be of assistance. I think that they are on the Internet. Hopefully you will find them under the following address: http://www.beatification-imperatrice-zita.org

The Empress is described as a great example of faith and hope in the face of trials, unshakable trust in God and as a model of love, service and fidelity.

Cheers,
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Rani on September 07, 2011, 06:33:42 AM
Archduke Felix passed away, the last link to the Habsburg monarchy :(

Quote
HIRH Archduke Felix, last surviving son of the Blessed Emperor Karl, died at 1.30 pm on the evening of the 6th September (5.30 a.m. European time on 7th) in Mexico. He was aged 95 years. He leaves three sons and four daughters.

source: http://members3.boardhost.com/EuropeanRoyals/msg/1315381106.html

May he rest in peace!

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2011, 07:52:00 AM
Sad that the old generation is going . Things will never be the same again.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on September 07, 2011, 09:41:44 AM
Did Archduke Felix live in Mexico, since the report says he died there?

Ann
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Zukunftsseele on September 07, 2011, 10:21:47 AM
Yes, he did. During his time in exile Archduke Felix has lived in Portugal, Belgium, Mexico and the United States. He currently lives in the colonia of San Ángel in Mexico City.
He has built up a number of successful businesses in Mexico and Brussels and has worked as a marketing consultant.

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2011, 10:42:48 AM
Very talented. Was he close to his family in Europe ?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Lucien on September 16, 2011, 08:48:51 AM
Archduke Felix passed away, the last link to the Habsburg monarchy :(

Quote
HIRH Archduke Felix, last surviving son of the Blessed Emperor Karl, died at 1.30 pm on the evening of the 6th September (5.30 a.m. European time on 7th) in Mexico. He was aged 95 years. He leaves three sons and four daughters.

source: http://members3.boardhost.com/EuropeanRoyals/msg/1315381106.html

May he rest in peace!



HI & RH Archduke Felix will be interred in the new Family vault at the Muri convent,Switserland on saturday october 1st.


Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on July 15, 2012, 09:15:46 AM
Zita in 1917 :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/4363221917zita.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=4363221917zita.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on September 04, 2012, 08:04:49 PM
She really looks as if she's expecting in this photo. I know she had eight children in 10 years but she never seems to look pregnant in any of her photos, but then again, many women of that era stuck pretty close to home once they started to show.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Marie Valerie on May 15, 2013, 10:04:29 AM
Where Karl and Zita at the wedding of Viktoria Luise von Preußen with Ernst August von Hannover 1913 in Berlin?

It is often mentioned that George V. and Queen Mary and also Nicholas II. were there..
But the german royal houses were not named as guests..
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 15, 2013, 10:10:00 AM
Really ? I am sure the German Royal Houses of Schaumburg-Lippe, Baden, Hesse, Hannover & Meiningein were there.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on May 15, 2013, 12:20:25 PM
Where Karl and Zita at the wedding of Viktoria Luise von Preußen with Ernst August von Hannover 1913 in Berlin?

It is often mentioned that George V. and Queen Mary and also Nicholas II. were there..
But the german royal houses were not named as guests..

No, Karl and Zita were not there--at least not Zita. In the new joint bio of the 4 women (Zita, AF, Mary and Dona) a special point is paid to that wedding as the last time Mary and Dona would meet. At the time VL & EA married, Franz Ferdinand would've been the likely representative.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on May 15, 2013, 03:08:32 PM
Franz Josef subsequently became godfather to Ernst August and Viktoria Luise's eldest son (baptised Ernst August Georg Wilhelm Christian Ludwig Franz Josef Nikolaus), and was on good terms with the Duke of Cumberland, so he would certainly have sent a representative to the wedding, but as immediate heir Franz Ferdinand was the likely candidate.

Ann
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 15, 2013, 09:51:07 PM
Indeed. Thyra was one his FJ's favorite people.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 11, 2013, 11:30:53 AM
So, let's continue

Foto1
Well-known photos of Otto and Adelheid
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vx40hzRLWweq6_pybDWC_SZJYt65jWQ503Ar3ZWiAiU=w149-h67-p-no)

Foto2
Also well-known photos of Otto and Adelheid
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/xNAIoRoBBwG3g4W8-Qv5FJvJJfZG5WoG-DMPX5B1ANI=w149-h109-p-no)

Foto3
Only Otto, but the question is there Otto on Photo1 and Photo2?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_7OvFhufdW9oSb95d7Xc4X-nemXawaoXSII5_oaqdgY=w149-h42-p-no)

Foto4
If we compare the shape of the skull and facial features that Otto is definitely on the photo1 and 2. But I am not sure… )
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-74BrWASlDpDow2JKP_EW_t7fCLsbuPals2YjvoVJzE=w149-h37-p-no)

Foto5
Otto and Otto, they are definitely different… Left one was up to October  1918, right came after
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/ysz7JYe-myWWaXTQWwjJS-bHA8xkGrey--slEA1JbMk=w149-h74-p-no)

Foto6
Here are also well-known photos of Adelheid and Otto.  We see Otto here is similar to the right one on Photo5. Who is left?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/veYEvDyUP3EtvbKpCyEJsrv4liPpDMxL5FMQh1PWumk=w149-h83-p-no)

Foto7
May be she is?

Title:   Princess Charlotte, niece of the Empress of Austria Zita in Brussels. Photograph. Around 1935....
Caption:   AUSTRIA - CIRCA 1930: Princess Charlotte, niece of the Empress of Austria Zita in Brussels. Photograph. Around 1935. (Photo by Imagno/Getty Images)
Date created:   01 Jan 1930
Editorial image #:   89777275
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0nzFjC35BCVyMIjzxDqwT9o4vXoDCDeAmnYfSjUf65k=w102-h149-p-no)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/glZkjmtXTksyjdNHRqnD26b2qe1dD0v2wJ97bY_RyKQ=w147-h149-p-no)






Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 11, 2013, 11:43:03 AM
sorry for the small pictures)))

Photo1
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JluamPYVoYE/UbdN8Djrz6I/AAAAAAAAAJs/oc4QHQjdqMc/w925-h418-no/Clipboard000.jpg)

Photo2
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-m7wUJ84cA_M/UbdN-L0usKI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/h7gQgjPTQts/w710-h520-no/Clipboard001.jpg)

Photo3
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7OdHVZdxIAQ/UbdOAEIXvqI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/hiQGSgF-FMo/w965-h273-no/Clipboard002.jpg)

Photo4
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zRI2t2VMKyA/UbdODGN1EHI/AAAAAAAAAKE/OVD4_bC2AmA/w1044-h261-no/Clipboard003.jpg)

Photo5
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--jH3wsmWhps/UbdOFtBHf5I/AAAAAAAAAKM/cTdL5fqs6LE/w848-h423-no/Clipboard004.jpg)


Photo6
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1-fYCmhA09w/UbdON8TvdMI/AAAAAAAAAKg/baZKmg88PvY/w793-h442-no/Clipboard005.jpg)

Photo7
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-y-0lmZfVF1s/UbdOY4U2XVI/AAAAAAAAAK0/SGMFfWOCKTY/w355-h520-no/13-89777275.jpg)

Photo8
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-32oREog0npI/UbdOXN1Nz8I/AAAAAAAAAKs/n4Cz6WR7MSU/w300-h304-no/0iI1qZfaaWs.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 11, 2013, 11:58:24 AM
So, but where is the fire child on to 1918 ???
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pEHu8QfS_2w/UbdVfaiVaJI/AAAAAAAAAL0/2rqRcGyAvpk/s216-no/3.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bIPUhHoBPAU/UbdVhznNo_I/AAAAAAAAAMU/sX6dHqwH3_g/w341-h520-no/Gyula_Bencz%25C3%25BAr_Kronprinz_Otto_1917.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5YQw5mfl4yU/UbdVfc7lyZI/AAAAAAAAALs/zcUae3kagpY/w530-h400-no/1.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O-zTHNnj2Cg/UbdVfaGTOOI/AAAAAAAAALw/bOy19L6v9Sk/w594-h330-no/2.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4Nr17jXc5vs/UbdVhIGCWQI/AAAAAAAAAMI/id4rxGuNqy0/w386-h520-no/Franz+Joseph+Otto+Robert+Maria+Anton+Karl+Max+Heinrich+Sixtus+Xavier+Felix+Renatus+Ludwig+Gaetan+Pius+Ignatius%252C+Crown+Prince+of+Austria%252C+Hungary%252C+Croatia+and+Bohemia+%252820+November+1912+%25E2%2580%2593+4+July+2011%2529.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rlJxVKhbA-I/UbdVhD8VNoI/AAAAAAAAAME/8R0MURzIFJE/w400-h411-no/Sweet+father+and+son+image+1.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RreXtmzhwWI/UbdViEoAzOI/AAAAAAAAAMc/F413K4eaVKA/w494-h520-no/Sweet+father+and+son+image+2.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 11, 2013, 12:01:45 PM
KArl and zita have their own topic

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=15638.0
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 11, 2013, 12:15:27 PM
Sorry... I have not used to this forum yet...)
May be admin correct my mistake? I do not have rights

For best look
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Hu7A-FYAJzA/UbdaLIvZF0I/AAAAAAAAANE/B-QKcU5Eupo/w621-h520-no/Clipboard0043.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 11, 2013, 12:58:54 PM
That is, we need to find the child with that name apparently!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqB41Yr3_50
)))
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 14, 2013, 04:28:39 AM
here is a good description of how such things are done. who can read russian is good. for those who can not it will be hard ... )
http://www.eifgaz.ru/orden.htm
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on June 14, 2013, 11:44:51 AM
Schvic300,

please make us clear how Goran Bregovic and the article about ...about what? (I do read Russian) ,well,how they are related to this topic on Archduke Otto? Possibly I missed something.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 16, 2013, 11:47:32 AM

Fine, I'll do it
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 16, 2013, 12:05:29 PM
...at least Marie Schleinzer,  Julius Cohn Hortenau, also Hildegard Adam Hortenau and her brother have been actively involved in this story.  Also Karl and his child. I think it has to do with Otto, since it was he who binds all these people. Why not? ) About Goran Bregovich and his song...a little later)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: amelia on June 16, 2013, 04:26:46 PM
I am also very interested to know about this story.....soplease explain. Thanks Amelia
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 17, 2013, 02:01:43 AM
well, continue)

The story is directly related to Otto. We can relate to the following topic now to see that. I think most people understand that the man of such a level as was Otto… that their lives are few random. The appearance of Marie Schleinzer is not an eventuality also.

Pls, look here:
1853, Emperor Franz Joseph survived an assassination attempt
1889, death (assassination) of Crown Prince Rudolf
1898, assassination of Empress Elisabeth (remember that she was replaced by Katarina Schratt and in 1918 Karl was escorted by Edward Lisle Strutt, the british officer with the very in tune with the surname)
1909 Morganatic marriage of Ferdinand Karl of Austria and in 1911 he was expelled from the house of Habsburg by Emperor Franz Joseph.
1914, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was murdered in Sarajevo

We see that it was a permanent attack on the emperor and to the heirs.
The appearance of Marie Schleinzer and the death of Otto in 1906 has its place in this series.

Who was Julius Cohn the next Marie Schleinzer husband? It is well known that he was spa-doctor. But it was not his main profession. Now we would say that his main profession was the physician geneticist. He worked on heredity and as a result he was associated with dynastic marriages and the birth of heirs. His adoptive (?) son Alfred was the same later.

http://cdonner.com/john-f-kennedys-austrian-son.htm
Here is the story of one of such cases. Put simply, they took DNA material through this for future use.

The recent case of Monica Lewinsky was the same. Not by Julius, of course. ))) Despite the miracles which he did i think he was dead already…)))
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 19, 2013, 05:16:25 AM
Let's talk about some public pictures.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_uPfsPZ5RIY/UcBrRI_nozI/AAAAAAAAAOE/bZ3scJOwKDA/w768-h492-no/C31.jpg)

Who knows the other story, pls tell it. I know the next version. The card belonged to the russian empire secret police archives. They obtained it from one of the foreign agents. German «geb.» means «geboren» = born. But the inscription could read in russian too and thus would means a «girl».


Looking at the public images many people have seen Karl's child born in 1912 as a girl. It is very obvious.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pM07GE7VvFo/UcBrQz0Ku6I/AAAAAAAAANk/CQAQw3-487Q/w291-h400-no/C32.jpg)

I know the same thing and moreover that Karl had just 1 child Adelheid Maria, then simply Maria. And also know as on her birth Maria told. "... when my dad went to war, he told my mom about a gold ring for a boy… but, I was born ..." And after these words she became very sad.
It was a time of the First Balkan War, which lasted from October 1912 to May 1913.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9yZZPACS3SY/UcBrRy1mPGI/AAAAAAAAAN4/yFe8e3H_28k/w462-h456-no/C33.jpg)

A lot of attention Karl was paid just for this child.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iy12gyblCfw/UcBrSeiovwI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/bN3bJmH58Sg/w684-h442-no/C35.jpg)

That Goran Bregovich song was about the name Maria. But, it does not apply to the story, of cause.

Why and under what circumstances Osterrich family decided to hide the event i am not prepared to say. I can only assume that the well-known postcard Drei Generationen speaks in favor of the fact that they were very afraid of civil war risk as already happened in the time of Maria Theresia.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m3G5czucoNA/UcBrSLXxHOI/AAAAAAAAAN8/UH5WF92WDOU/w315-h500-no/C34.jpg)

It is not clear yet with one child, Rudolph.
I know exactly that he had a dissenting opinion on the story that I tell now. Also it looks like after 1918 Karl touches only to Rudolf. With other children he has nothing. Of course if it is not a fake pictures  at all.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LWEfAcdTGaA/UcFjzXBlzMI/AAAAAAAAAP8/C-AsyjEFO6Y/w437-h520-no/C30b.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mjSkl9lyPU4/UcBrSwZEekI/AAAAAAAAAOU/9QSacMC_E5A/w530-h400-no/C36.jpg)

8th February 1921, it is just befor attempt to regain the Hungarian throne on 24 March 1921
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qh3TWT3llL4/UcFs1ewGPUI/AAAAAAAAAQg/hl0TawuIyUI/w594-h441-no/C43.jpg)

Rudolph's first wife was russian. Later, they both were in serious car accident. She died. Rudolph was seriously injured. His story is very different from the other children. His eldest daughter lives in Moscow.

Who are the other children? I do not know for sure. They are not the children of Karl.
I'm not sure that all of them gave birth Zita.

Karl Franz Josef (1887 - 1922), the last Emperor of Austria and the last King of Hungary and Bohemia, in exile in Switzerland with his wife Zita, 8th February 1921. From left to right, Count Hunyady, Count Esterhazy, the Emperor and Empress.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-318NbpEEveo/UcFyyo5Y2XI/AAAAAAAAARI/VFaJ4GJkypA/w594-h431-no/%25D1%258130%25D1%2581.jpg)
But Zita free of child. See the previous picture, too. They are a single date. Rudolph was born 5 September 1919 and he is really there about 1.5 years. But Charlotte should appear in 2 months on March 1, 1921...

Maria said about Adelheid Habsburg: "There's some girl instead of me".
That girl died in Pöcking, Bavaria in 1971. She was buried in the Tyrolean village of Tulfes, near Innsbruck, Austria. Zita was not present.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OzCMY14i49U/UcBsV2ThIFI/AAAAAAAAAO8/4rnR_fo1eHA/w388-h520-no/C300.jpg)

It's hard to say who is the father of the famous Otto Habsburg. Very likely he totally belongs to this family.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yDRRgxrHAs0/UcBrTHi4PgI/AAAAAAAAAOg/mFAvu8qf-Nk/w624-h385-no/C37.jpg)
Sixtus is sitting.



 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 19, 2013, 05:18:52 AM
On my opinion it is correct to call this branch as House of Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, that is, through the female line. Because:
1) Robert I Parma died in 1907 and had nothing to do with second marriage children fraud
2) The same is true for Robert first marriage children. Their men had served in the Austrian army during WWI

Although Zita in her statements insisted that they are Bourbon Parma. But these two sisters of Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha have actively participated in all the intrigues:

1) Maria Theresa of Portugal (24 August 1855 - 12 February 1944), the 3d wife of Karl Ludwig of Austria (30 July 1833 - 19 May 1896). “Maria Theresa managed to obtain considerable influence at the Austrian court when Empress Elisabeth effectively withdrew from the social scene in Vienna after the suicide of her only son, Crown Prince Rudolf, in January 1889. Maria Theresa stood in for the Empress and carried out honours at the Hofburg Imperial Palace with the Emperor until the death of her husband in 1896 when court etiquette ruled she had to go into retirement”
2) Maria Antonia of Portugal (November 28, 1862 - May 14, 1959), 2nd wife of Robert I Parma (9 July 1848 - 16 November 1907). She was the mother of Zita, Sixtus and the other brothers. Also she was a postman in the scam with a peace letter of Karl...)
How many know they both escorted Karl up to Madeira then...

“Sixtus affair” is much broader, that only the well-known peace negotiations in 1916-1917, where Karl was shown as a weak and not reliable ruler.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cPVkbSr3p04/UcBrUEgUf8I/AAAAAAAAAOk/GxdyiR-2oms/w698-h403-no/C39.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Am2c0d56atc/UcBrTVZSGbI/AAAAAAAAAOc/HwzIvHB8egU/w760-h507-no/C38.jpg)
Zita in circle of her family: Xavier, Sixtus , Maria Antonia. Villa Pianore.

It looks like Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha family try to get up instead of Osterrich family for almost 100 years.
It is noticeable that also Jesuits are active involved in the case – future warder of Karl “British officer, Lt-Colonel Edward Lisle Strutt was a Catholic educated by Jesuits at Beaumont College, and at Innsbruck and Oxford Universities”.

Remember, Karl  did not ask for exile, nor for Madeira.
“…After a difficult few months at Eckartsau, the Imperial Family received aid from an unexpected source. Prince Sixtus had met King George V and appealed to him to help the Habsburgs”.  

O! Prince Sixtus ask! It was the selfless aid from an unexpected source on the way to Madeira!)))

“Malta was mooted as a possibility, but was declined by Lord Curzon, and French territory was ruled out due to the possibility of Zita's brothers intriguing on Charles's behalf…”.  
Zita's brothers intriguing on Charles's behalf! Very interesting!)
Looks like Zita's brothers intrigue together with King George V and Lord Curzon… on Charles's behalf.

Do not forget Karl was a prisoner in Eckartsau. After he was moved to Switzerland, he became a prisoner of Braganza-Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and their british friends.
Do not forget all this time Karl did not know anything about the fate of his daughter Maria.


Now something about Zita famous speech:

“…Leaving behind their children at Gödöllő, Charles and Zita travelled to the Schönbrunn Palace. By this time ministers had been appointed by the new state of "German-Austria", and by 11 November, together with the emperor's spokesmen, they prepared a manifesto for Charles to sign. Zita, at first glance, mistook it for an abdication and made her famous statement "A sovereign can never abdicate. He can be deposed... All right. That is force. But abdicate — never, never, never! I would rather fall here at your side. Then there would be Otto. And even if all of us here were killed, there would still be other Habsburgs!"

Why Zita was scared so much?) Let's say about later.

Now let's take a look at these her words:
“…I would rather fall here at your side. Then there would be Otto…”
Which Otto did she mean? What line of succession she said about? Karl was standing next to her right now… Apparently these words were not about Karl successor. These words were about other Otto, about the new one, who did not inherit Karl, but succeeded Zita's line.
Zita worried greatly! Because of this we heard so much new now.

Do not forget that on 11/11/1918 and up to Karl death Zita had only titles:
Empress consort of Austria
Queen consort of Hungary and Bohemia
She was not a monarch. She was just the spouse of monarch. And thus she had no heirs.

If it is still interesting, then next time let's talk about how and where “old Otto” (=Maria) disappeared in the late October 1918…

In conclusion, this is concerning “lady in dark” and her family.
http://sousamendesfoundation.org/habsburg/

DE BRAGANCE, Antonia (age 78)
DEGENFELD, Count Henry (age 50)
HABSBURG, Adelheid (age 26)
HABSBURG, Carl Ludwig (age 22)
HABSBURG, Charlotte (age 19)
HABSBURG, Elizabeth (age 18)
HABSBURG, Felix (age 24)
HABSBURG, Crown Prince Otto (age 28)
HABSBURG, Robert (age 25)
HABSBURG, Rudolf (age 20)
HABSBURG, Empress Zita née BOURBON-PARME (age 48)

The above visas were issued by Aristides de Sousa Mendes in Bordeaux in June 1940, allowing the Imperial Family of Austria to escape the Nazis and effectively saving the life of the Crown Prince Otto von HABSBURG who had been sentenced to death by the Nazis following the Anschluss, the German annexation of Austria.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on June 19, 2013, 09:21:54 AM
If you want to discuss Emperor's Karl children there are topics on him/his family and Archduke Otto.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 19, 2013, 09:50:31 AM
I told him and he doesnt care.

You NEED  to read about children fashion from victorian era early 20th century when MOSTLY of little boys wore SKIRTS and mostly of them had long hair too!!

You can see a lots of examples such as King Manuel II of Portugal who had long babana curls....and he wasnt a girl
Even Tsar Nicholas II wore little femenine gowns with  ribbons and stuff....and he wasnt a girl

I can spend the whole day posting examples of this. Soplease take the time to investigate in google. There are plenty of sites about this  

Ps: The card found in the "Russian empire secret police archives" was posted a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago here

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1983.240
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Dru on June 19, 2013, 05:25:20 PM
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5462/9086951661_68a4f07a61_o.jpg)

Zita.  My apologies if it's been posted before.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 20, 2013, 12:48:02 AM
Hi Svetabel! Hi Carolath!  Why you do not wonder? These all are directly related to Otto of Austria. Read on and find out news about Hildegard and others. Why not?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on June 20, 2013, 03:58:48 AM
Otto von Habsburg may have looked more like a Bourbon-Parma than a Habsburg, but all that means is that he took after his mother's family. Nothing strange in that.

Ann
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on June 20, 2013, 06:19:22 AM
Hi Svetabel! Hi Carolath!  Why you do not wonder? These all are directly related to Otto of Austria. Read on and find out news about Hildegard and others. Why not?

If you continue to post here info on Emperor's Karl family - all your posts will be merged with the proper topics. If you want to convince us that former Archduke Otto was not Habsburg or such like - do show us REAL proof, otherwise please don't confuse other posters with obscure links like Bregovic's songs.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: amelia on June 20, 2013, 07:24:15 AM
Well said, Svetabel!!!!!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Greenowl on June 20, 2013, 07:41:00 AM
Well said, Svetabel!!!!!

I quite agree...the whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me.

Cheers,
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 20, 2013, 09:06:51 AM
Well said, Svetabel!!!!!

I quite agree...the whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

+3

Its just genetics..,.dark genes are ALWAYS predominant!!. I married a ginger hair man with green eyes and my son luckily have spots of blonde/reddish hair and brown eyes as me.

Otto is IDENTIC to his maternal branch, the Borbon-Parma . Just look at the pics of that branch.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on June 20, 2013, 09:59:29 AM
Going back to less controversial areas, there was a very powerful resemblance between Karl and his brother Maximilian.

Ann
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 20, 2013, 12:26:11 PM
Excuse me please, but do not understand what hurt such beautiful ladies? This is the history! The truth born in the discussions! There are a very interesting historical materials. It's all on the facts! A lot of people are browsing, take a look at the counter of the branch, and there are no serious objections from anyone on the content! Let's work together to specify if some details are not correct. Let's discuss! I will be very happy to have such support from the lovely ladies like you!  Look the next and change yours opinion, please!

GÖDÖLLŐ

http://www.gvkik.hu/wiki/index.php5/Zita_kir%C3%A1lyn%C3%A9
Chapter "Gödöllő és Zita" describes the events of late October 1918. Original text:

…1918 őszén látogattak először Gödöllőre, hogy itt töltsenek néhány hetet. A békés, családi együttlét helyett a háború, a forradalom szele Gödöllőre ért. 1918. október 23-án este a gyerekek lefektetése után a várható eseményeket találgatta Zita és férje. A királyi családot itt, a kastélyban érte a monarchia összeomlásának híre. A legfontosabb hírt, Károlyi Mihály személyesen hozta Gödöllőre: megalakult a Magyar Nemzeti Tanács. A beszámoló hírére a király bejelentette, nem vesz részt a magyarországi események operatív irányításában, és jelezte: Károlyit kívánja kinevezni miniszterelnöknek. Az uralkodó pár és a kijelölt kormányfő október 26-án éjszaka Gödöllőről együtt utazott Bécsbe. Gyermekeik azonban még néhány napig Gödöllőn maradtak. Ottó trónörökös és testvérei 29-én még ellátogattak a Máriabesnyői kegytemplomba, ahol a Historia Domus szerint magyarul imádkozták a Miatyánkot, az Üdvözlégyet és a Hiszekegyet. Másnap már nekik is menekülniük kellett…

Two last sentences translated:

… On 29th [October 29, 1918] Crown Prince Otto and his brothers also attended the Máriabesnyő church, where according to the Historia Domus Hungarian prayed the Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary and the Creed. The next day he had to flee. (!)

Clarification:
- Máriabesnyő town was destroyed during the Turkish occupation, there are Godollo city about 5km off
- Historia Domus, the earliest chronicle of the Banat Bulgarians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat_Bulgarians
The Banat Bulgarians (Banat Bulgarian: palćene or banátsći balgare; common Bulgarian: банатски българи, banatski balgari) are a distinct Bulgarian minority group which settled in the 18th century in the region of the Banat, which was then ruled by the Habsburgs and after World War I was divided between Romania, Serbia, and Hungary.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-b4ZQV036xs0/UcMtS3tOkVI/AAAAAAAAAS0/HDag9h51HEQ/w480-h306-no/4.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tchV9QfaY44/UcMtRvmbd1I/AAAAAAAAASw/LRRKTDabCcw/w500-h285-no/2.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-htfJd9A_luE/UcMtRsNKm7I/AAAAAAAAASg/qOG6U51As60/w630-h419-no/3.jpg)


Thus 1-st Otto (Maria) disappeared October 30, 1918. So, in Gödöllő left 4 children.

But, October 31, 1918 they again become 5!

Warren Evening Times /Monday, November 04, 1918 /
http://newspaperarchive.com/warren-evening-times/1918-11-04
Emperor Charles Children disappeared in two autos
Zurich, Nov.4,-The five children of Emperor Charles  left the Godollo  Palace on Thursday [October 31, 1918] in two automobiles and have not be heard from since, it was reported by the Frankfort Gazette. The Godollo Palace is in Hungary near Budapest and was occupied by the emperor in his capacity as King of Hungary.

However, we have known that at this time one of the Zita brothers appeared in Godollo. And he was  who takes away children in cars.
Not hard to guess where from and how the new 2-nd Otto came.
 
Later, Maria herself so described the events on October 30, 1918: "... We hid under the stairs. It was dark. There was an explosion. Strongly screaming. The fire started. And all ran there. And we ran out to the garden... "

Then there was the train carried Maria faraway from Austria... The child was riding accompanied by Hildegard. In one of the neighboring cars drove a man who accompanied them. Along the way he repeatedly went to them. His name is unknown. But, there is speculation that he was either Julius or his son Alfred.

Later have seen Hildegaed and Julius as a couple.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZzQ6obXaBj8/UcMu7QvHZGI/AAAAAAAAAVU/_m2cbY-tX6U/w400-h467-no/Clipboard02.jpg)

Maria understood just a bit. She knew only that "so right". So it was explained to her. And she believed it. Because Maria’s mother was preparing her for the journey ahead. "Mom had a big gold clip-on earrings, which she loved. She gave them to a jeweler and he made two pairs of identical earrings. One pair mother has left herself. A second passed me, so I can be found later ... ".

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-h60y_fJxf5I/UcMt7jdzjMI/AAAAAAAAAUE/PvT-qLkD-uk/w555-h520-no/c42b.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EAcOttN7yDU/UcMt89rS7kI/AAAAAAAAAUM/c7dZQo_KYJM/w382-h447-no/c42c.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Jo-HtYRd3wM/UcMt3oNGRKI/AAAAAAAAAT8/yztp1sAc7mU/w200-h302-no/C41b.jpg)

That's such a sad story.

Thank you all for your patience!

PS.
Nowhere is the Hildegard date of death. I think because, as already explained, she disappeared along with Maria. Hildegard died in 1975, far from Austria, alone, like her mother, Marie Adam Schleinzer in Opatija. Hildegard from 1919 got very sad she could not play the piano more…

The end )   
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on June 20, 2013, 01:03:28 PM
Excuse me please, but do not understand what hurt such beautiful ladies?

Excuse US,please, but we try to understand your point and the sense of your postings...and personally I can't find that point. I can't find any real proof of your 'researches' either. WHAT exactly you want to say? Another survival topic? Any misterious events? Do enlighten us. We are not hurt, just make your postings more clear.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 21, 2013, 01:19:02 AM
Dear Svetabel! Thanks for your hospitality in the topic! Certainly I agree with the transfer. I'll try to write something like that more would cover the topic more fully. I hope the other participants will help me also! And it will be interesting for many.)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: britt.25 on July 29, 2013, 03:12:37 AM
I have never heard that Karl I. was maybe not Otto von Habsburgs father. As there is no real proof at the moment (I personally don't believe this story as long as there is no evidence) I would prefer to open a single topic on this "thesis", because this topic here is called " Emperor Karl of Austria and Empress Zita". Thanks.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on August 03, 2013, 10:14:18 PM
Dear Britt.25, at these postcards you can see how the daughter of Carl looked.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--3ARhS5vbYM/Uf3ErwONIoI/AAAAAAAAAWI/tWMutSwHxiM/w336-h519-no/21.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6UCPnZMFEys/Uf3EtimAJkI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/6SIJm5PW2j0/w329-h520-no/30.JPG)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_RTgKGnhZ0E/Uf3Eu4XV7NI/AAAAAAAAAWY/a55JJvHx74o/w210-h234-no/31.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on August 09, 2013, 01:40:07 PM
There was one more story that influenced the fate of the daughter of Charles...

I'll write about it a little later ...

Thanks to everyone who is interested in this story and read.
I think it is important to convey the true story of undistorted to our descendants.
So that they can make the right choice at one time.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on September 05, 2013, 04:31:39 PM
I have some comments on Karl and Zita:
Their visit to the ottoman empire was in the 3rd week of may 1918. The old man with the white beard in the bemedaled uniform in section I reply 220 looks like the Sultan Muhammed V. I am not 100% sure. The dark grey uniform Karl is wearing in the painting in section I reply 3 with the red trouser stripes was from the 1916 or 1917-1918 period. Before that the Austrio-Hungarian army wore a pike grey (sort of a light blue gray uniform). They adopted the darker field grey uniform in the fall of 1915.
 The Osprey books by peter jung "The Austro-Hungarian forces in WW I (1) 1914 and (2) 1916-18 have both pictures and color prints of the uniforms. (2) has a color profile of Karl and gives details of his medals along with a picture of him.

The book Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire by Martin D O'Conner I believe has a number of other pictures of Karl. Including one of him giving the Imperial handshake to an officer. (Yes believe it or not there was an imperial handshake).

I hope this was of some interest or use.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Greenowl on September 05, 2013, 06:27:13 PM
I think you are correct about Sultan Mohamed V. I have never heard of the Imperial handshake, that is new to me!! Could you describe it?

Thanks and cheers,
GREENOWL (Monika)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on September 06, 2013, 02:37:32 PM
It something like this the person shaking hands with the emperor holds out his hand palm up like someone is about to drop a coin into his hand. The Emperor sticks his hand out and lowers it into other persons hand. It's been awhile since I have seen the picture.

For more information on the Austrian empire in WW I go to the axis history forum.com where in their WW I section they have a section on Austria Hungary. Nothing on Karl or Zita yet. For WW I information in general go to the great war forum.com
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Greenowl on September 07, 2013, 04:30:28 AM
Thank you...I must study some of the old photos! Just goes to show that one can learn something new every day.

Cheers,
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on September 28, 2013, 08:59:58 AM
Ex-Kaiserin Zita with her children in exile :

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/52133689zq.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=52133689zq.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 30, 2013, 06:15:06 PM
Zita was fertile like her mother.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on December 07, 2013, 07:44:41 AM
Zita and her kids, around 1919-1920 :

(http://imagesup.org/images12/1386423799-qs.jpg) (http://imagesup.org)

Courtesy onb.at.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on June 06, 2014, 05:13:56 PM
I have some data on a couple of the photos:
reply 85 the men with the red cross and Knights of malta armbands are wearing the uniform of civilian officials
reply 102 Karl with the troops the book  Uniforms and equipment of the Austro-Hungarian army in World war I Spencer a Coil has this picture in color. and dates it as 1915. Przemyl was under siege and captured and held by the Russians the first have of 1915 so if it was taken at Przemyl in 1915 it was taken in the fall of that year. This book has a number of other pictures taken of karl in a 1917 visit to the Southern (Italian) front.

I hope this is of some use and interest.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 27, 2014, 12:29:35 PM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m6R9ZcS0hmk/U62gu0fcekI/AAAAAAAAAYc/H5sUBB1vJK4/w800-h506-no/b8d78193d4ea.jpg)

Hi! As I understand she is the only daughter of Charles Adelheid.
Look at the color and texture of hair.
Where was this child in the previous 2 photos?
I think you will see there just Zita's niece.
)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: shvic300 on June 30, 2014, 06:10:16 AM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1Znu8ivAz3k/U7FE5JpoMCI/AAAAAAAAAZI/iH6AltHMKrM/w525-h520-no/b8d78193d4ea+%25281%2529.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Maria Sisi on September 06, 2014, 06:29:08 PM
(http://3m7ajlsrzj92lfd1hu16hu7vc.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/karldied1.jpg)
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/blessed-karl-von-habsburg

(http://mult-kor.hu/image/article/index/20.%20szazad/karoly.jpg)
http://mult-kor.hu/20121128_mibol_eltek_a_habsburgok_a_ket_vilaghaboru_kozott?pIdx=2

Has there been any talk of bringing Karl's remains back to Austria to lie next to Zita in the Imperial Crypt?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Maria Sisi on September 06, 2014, 06:36:29 PM
Two photos of Zita and Karl around the time of the engagement.

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/engagement.jpg)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/pianore.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on May 25, 2016, 04:59:48 PM
More pics and data on Kaiser Karl:

The great war channel week 95 has a picture of then archduke Karl this week they discuss the Asiago offensive or Strafexpedition (Punishment expedition). It began on 15 may 1916 and Karl was there as commander of the Austrian XX Corps.
This Austrian offensive made some gains and the Italians got into a panic and begged all their Allies for help. One result of this was the Russian Brussilov Offensive.

more information on youtube:

Strafexpedition: La Spedizione Punitiva 1916 has a film clip of Karl

boardgamegeek.com has the boardgame Strafexpedition 1916 played online
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 08, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
100 years ago AD Karl was put in command of Army Group Archduke Karl consisting of the Austrian 1st and 7th armies and the German 9th army. He was pretty much a figurehead a German General Hans Von Seekt ran things. One day Von Seekt was unhappy with the German 9th army's operations and sent an order for a detailed account of it's operations. The 9th army commander was General Von Falkenhayn the former Chief of Staff on the German army. He thought the order was unnecessary and refused to obey it as he had a battle to fight. One day Karl met up with Falkenhayn and things didn't go very well.
Falkenhayn: "What is your Imperial Highness thinking about? Who do you think is in front of you? I am a experienced Prussian General!"
Karl: said the order stands and walked off. I would say this incident didn't German-Austrian relations any good.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on October 09, 2016, 02:37:51 AM
James

This is very interesting - especially when I always thought that Karl was a sensible fellow!

Hans von Seekt was an interesting figure. He subsequently became Commander in Chief of the German Army under the Weimar Republic, when it was limited by the Versailles Treaty to 100,000 men on a minimum of 12 years' service, to make it impossible to build up a large reserve. Seekt created a highly professional army with a nucleus of very able officers, which became the foundation for the very effective army of the Nazi period.

Ann 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on June 05, 2017, 10:10:35 PM
Yes Von Seekt was a very interesting figure.

on the great war forum Italy section and the forumaxishistory.com First world war section there is a new posting of WW I photos taken by a soldier of the KUK 43 Infantry regiment/ 17th Infantry division on the Italian front during WW I. It includes a picture of Karl and what looks like one of Zita. A few of the other photos are graphic. the posting is www.worldwaronephotos.com
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 29, 2017, 07:01:23 PM
100 years ago the Italian army suffered it's worst defeat in its history the battle of Caperetto 24 Oct-19 Nov 1917 when a german and Austrian offensive broke through Italian lines and the Italians fled. For the last time in history church bells were rung in the Austro-Hungarian Empire to celebrate a victory of the Habsberg army.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on June 09, 2018, 10:13:21 PM
10 June 1918 was one of disaster for the KUK marine the dreadnought battleship Szent Istvan was torpedoed and sunk by an Italian motor torpedo boat MAS 15. There is a famous film clip of the ship capsizing and sinking on youtube
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on June 20, 2018, 02:42:59 PM
The battle of the Piave 15-23 June 1918 was the last great offensive launched by the KUK Armee. It was a disaster where the army suffered heavy casualties that it could not replace. Karl deserves a lot of the blame for this disaster. One of his Army Group commander Conrad wanted to attack in the Tyrolean Alps the other Bonoevic wanted to attack across the Piave. So Karl splits the forces up equally and attacks in both locations. Result neither force was strong enough to break through and the Austrians were defeated.
 To have launched such an offensive the first place was not a good idea. The KUK Armee was starving and in rags and short of everything. On the home front the people were also starving and in rags and short of everything. There was also major unrest on the home front as the Empire was falling apart and this defeat made matters worse.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on December 27, 2018, 04:49:46 PM
I am a little late but:
24-Oct-4 Nov 1918 the battle of Vittorio Vento the Allied offensive against the Austrians. This was the last battle fought by the KUK Armee which was in a state of disintegration as was the rest of the Empire. 4 Nov was the day of the Armistance on the Italian front. On 11 November Kaiser Karl abdicates even though his wife Zita tried her best to stop him. One of the reasons he abdicated is there were no loyal troops around to defend him except for some cadets from a local military academy. In late life Zita says they sent out a number of telegrams requesting loyal troops but got no replies. GFM Baron Boroevic von Bojna the Italian front commander said he had some loyal troops and wanted to march on Vienna but, when he sent a telegram to Kaiser Karl the reply came back no. This reply most likely was not from Karl.

read about the last battles of the KUK Armee online:
"Austria-Hungary's Last war 1914-1918 Volume 7