Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: Agneschen on January 02, 2005, 08:49:14 PM

Title: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Agneschen on January 02, 2005, 08:49:14 PM
I am really interested in princess Anna of Prussia, daughter of prince Karl and his wife Marie of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach. She was the second wife of Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel and bore him 5 children (Friedrich-Wilhelm, Elisabeth, Alexander, Friedrich-Karl - Mossy's husband - and Sibylle).
Young Kaiser Franz-Josef met her in Berlin in 1852 and was quite taken with her. He actually wished to propose to her but she was already engaged and, besides, Prussia was opposed to a union with Austria.
That is about all I know - very little indeed - and would welcome any info on her as well as pictures (I have seen her portrait by Winterhalter). Cheers.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on January 03, 2005, 05:53:45 AM
Picture from Hulton Archive. Anna and her spouse Friedrich (about 1865)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KurfurstFriedrich_spouse.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Agneschen on January 03, 2005, 06:29:41 AM
Many thanks GDella & Svetabel ! I had never seen the Wilhelm & Anna pic ! I have just found a portrait of her as a child, she looked quite pretty indeed :
http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/hohenzollern/hhzkings2/1836%20M.Anna-02.JPG
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 03, 2005, 09:02:34 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/AnnavonPreussen.jpg)

Anna's portrait by Winterhalter dated 1858, and one of my favourites by him.  I have never been able to locate a colour copy of this; according to the book it is located in the Schloss Fasanerie Museum, Fulda.  Can anyone help with this?
She looks absolutely stunning in this painting, just goes to show what a cloud of silk tulle can do!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 03, 2005, 11:19:25 AM
Quote
Yes, the portrait is at Fasanerie Castle, Eichzell, Germany.
It hangs in her own boudoir - all in pink.


Have you seen it in the flesh, Thomas?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Agneschen on January 03, 2005, 11:38:59 AM
Anna was not the sister of the duchess of Connaught but her aunt. Luise-Margarete's father, prince Friedrich-Karl, was Anna's brother.
I love that portrait of her by Winterhalter, thank you for posting it Martyn. I have never seen it in colour either but would like to.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 03, 2005, 01:28:13 PM
That is near enough for me!  I would love to see this portrait in colour - it is absolutely one of my favourite Winterhalters and was not included in the famous touring exhibition, hence no colour copy in the accompanying book.
May I ask, what is the video about the Hesses?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 03, 2005, 03:25:18 PM
Quote
Anna was not the sister of the duchess of Connaught but her aunt. Luise-Margarete's father, prince Friedrich-Karl, was Anna's brother.
I love that portrait of her by Winterhalter, thank you for posting it Martyn. I have never seen it in colour either but would like to.


Whoops. Once again a reason for me not to research complicated family trees late at night. Sorry.  :-[

I deleted the post so as not to cause any confusion (and spare myself more embarrassment!)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 03, 2005, 04:42:07 PM
Quote

Whoops. Once again a reason for me not to research complicated family trees late at night. Sorry.  :-[

I deleted the post so as not to cause any confusion (and spare myself more embarrassment!)


Thanks for that, GDElla.  I'd better modify mine as I quoted you.....
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 03, 2005, 04:59:22 PM
No need--Svetabel has it quoted in all it's misinformed glory.  ;) Sometimes people skim though and I didn't want it just hanging out there when I was so incorrect. Just my bruised ego as I try to keep my reputation intact.  :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 03, 2005, 05:45:46 PM
Do you know what, your reputation speaks for itself.  Anyone who takes the trouble simply to look at some of your posts will surely realise that you are unbelievably an expert in your field, as much so as any so-called established writers or editors.  Quite how you sustain your commitment to this Board, in addition to your familyand studies, escapes me.
I am sure that your errors are excusable.  And you have the humility to own up to them, an attribute that is both rare and admirable.
I entreat you, keep the pictures and the information coming; you are an inspiration to us all.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 03, 2005, 11:56:05 PM
Martyn--you are always so kind and such a balm to my ego as well. I think I'm going to print out your comments one day and just post them on my wall for daily affirmations.  :) Believe me, you won't be able to shut me up. I just enjoy being on here way to much and it's the closest thing I've found to operating in my chosen fields of history & research in a looong time while still being able to be a hands-on mom.

I mostly removed it for the reason I had said earlier, that I didn't want someone skimming through it to read it and somehow absorb the wrong information. I don't mind owning up to my errors--correction of them is one of the best ways to learn.  :) I'd always rather be corrected than go on spouting misinformation. This was an area that I'm not that familiar with and should've paid more attention though.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on January 04, 2005, 06:34:38 AM
GDElla,you are an expert,no doubt!  I deleted that  post - my apologies..and never mind.  :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 04, 2005, 09:01:43 AM
Quote
GDElla,you are an expert,no doubt!  I deleted that  post - my apologies..and never mind.  :)


Oh dear, you and Martyn--I was tongue-in-cheek about my reputation. I certainly didn't mean to make you apologize or give me compliments (not that I mind those!) . I just like to clear up my mistakes so that no one inadvertantly thinks its the correct information. I guess no fear of that now!  :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: bluetoria on January 04, 2005, 09:48:44 AM
This was Vicky's opinion of Anna:
"..is very pretty, the most splendid figure youever saw, but I do not like her style quite, her gowns are a good deal fuller than the Empress's [Empress of France] and so low, I cannot bear that; and I do not like to see the Princesses dancing about with everybody." (12 February 1858)

& this is Queen Victoria's view of her husband (Frederick of H-K)
I am not at all surprised at your finding Prince F. of Hesse very disagreeable; we saw him several times in England, and always thought him so; even the Duchess of Cambridge (whose nephew he is) and certainly Cousin Mary disliked him. And yet some years agothe Duchess told me she thought he would be a very good husband for you! [i.e. Vicky] 2 March 1858
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 04, 2005, 10:22:16 AM
From the Winterhalter portrait one can clearly see that Vicky's opinion of Anna was fairly on target. even allowing for the healthy dose of gloss that the painter bestows upon his sitters, Anna is depicted as a beautiful and fashionable woman.  In another thread in which, much to Thomas' consternation I mistakenly attributed this painting to Pcss Anna of Hesse, I remarked upon the resemblance to Alice - does anyone else see it?
Anna in this portrait is extremely alluring; the pose leaning over the chair back is a tried and tested one that one sees frequently in paintings of this era and is always appealing.  Her hands clasped together suggest a thoughtful, reflective woman, her serious gaze directed to the viewer.  By contrast her attire is diaphanous, romantic and suggestive of a woman who takes the utmost care of her appearance.  Don't be deceived by the clouds of tulle and the seemingly carelessly looped pearls at her throat and wrist.  Her toilette is the 'dernier cri' in fashion, and her alleged fondness for decollete and ample skirts very much in evidence.  Her hair is immaculately coiffed without looking too dressed; indeed the whole efect is one of studied negligence, a woman sure of her powers of attraction and with yet an active mind.
I am trying to obtain a colour copy of this portrait but I do know that her dress is in fact one of those fragile confections from the late 1850's, early 1860's that do not survive in costume collections.  It would appear to be composed of white silk tulle over a pink foundation, either silk taffeta or satin duchesse; the fur trimmed pelisse or mantle is I think blue and the careless way in which such an expensive article of clothing is draped over the chair is entirely in keeping with the aristocratic atmosphere 'de luxe' that the painter is at pains to convey.
This such a beguiling image of a princess; who would not be happy to be thus depicted?  What prince, on being shown this portrait, could fail to be enchanted?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on January 04, 2005, 11:24:37 AM
martyn,  what about the Winterhalter book that came out in the 70s - a huge book.  
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: bluetoria on January 04, 2005, 11:36:57 AM
Yes Martyn...I agree. I hadn't noticeduntil you pointeditout but she DOES look a bit like Alice...do you think it's the shape of the nose and the way she holds her head? The mouth is very different!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 04, 2005, 02:49:17 PM
It is a lovely image indeed--as are many Winterhalter. I LOVE his paintings, my romantic nature I suppose. I once read a book on his work and just sighed over every one.

Anna does seem very pretty with a lovely, soft expression. Like Martyn I would love to see a color image of this painting. It just has a very appealing lushness to it. I thought I saw a resemblance to Alice but also to Alexandra Iosofovna.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 04, 2005, 05:41:07 PM
Quote
martyn,  what about the Winterhalter book that came out in the 70s - a huge book.  


Which book do you mean?  Do you mean 'Franz Xaver Winterhalter and the Courts of Europe 1830 - 1870' by Richard Ormond and Carol Blackett-Ord?
Or is there another publication of his works?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 04, 2005, 05:46:05 PM
Quote
It is a lovely image indeed--as are many Winterhalter. I LOVE his paintings, my romantic nature I suppose. I once read a book on his work and just sighed over every one.

Anna does seem very pretty with a lovely, soft expression. Like Martyn I would love to see a color image of this painting. It just has a very appealing lushness to it. I thought I saw a resemblance to Alice but also to Alexandra Iosofovna.


GDElla I have made enquiries to try to obtain a colour copy of this painting; I will let you know if I am successful. I really love this portrait, for me it is the essence of Winterhalter. I should also really try to find out alitle more about the sitter;Vicky's comments about Anna's love of fashion has interested me.
And do you know what, there is a look of Alexandra Iosifovna about her.....
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on January 04, 2005, 07:43:47 PM


"Which book do you mean?  Do you mean 'Franz Xaver Winterhalter and the Courts of Europe 1830 - 1870' by Richard Ormond and Carol Blackett-Ord?
Or is there another publication of his works?"

Yes.  That's the one.  Saw the exhibit in London in the late 80s.

By the way,  I just found a color portrait.    I have a scanner, but I don't have a website
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on January 05, 2005, 09:32:37 AM
As I said in a previous post. I have a color image of the Winterhalter painting of Anna of Hesse.   I have a scanner, but not a clue how to post.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 05, 2005, 09:47:41 AM
There are 2 options:

If you scan it you can either send it to someone on the group to post for you. I'd be happy to and I know others would as well. The FA does it but he's busy and doesn't pounce as quickly as us!  :)

Or you can open a photobucket account which allows you to scan pictures and upload them to the account. Once they're uploaded they're assigned an URL . You click on the button above which looks like a postcard which gives you this:
(http://)
You just cut and paste the url between the 2.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on January 05, 2005, 10:06:03 AM
thanks.  I've just e-mailed it to you.   it was published in a guide book for Schloss Fasanerie.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 05, 2005, 12:38:30 PM
Quote
thanks.  I've just e-mailed it to you.   it was published in a guide book for Schloss Fasanerie.


Here is the portrait (thanks Marlene for sending it!)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/scan0005.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Agneschen on January 05, 2005, 02:27:54 PM
Fantastic Marlene & GDella ! Thank you so much !!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 05, 2005, 02:44:32 PM
Thanks GDElla.  It would be nice to try to find a better image of it than that.  Still, it gives us an idea of the colouring that I described.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on January 05, 2005, 03:14:54 PM
Agneschen

You are very welcome.  I knew I had seen the painting - so I looked through a few less obvious places - including the guidebook for Schloss Fasanerie.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 05, 2005, 03:42:37 PM
GDElla do you have any more info on Anna of Preussen?  You are usually pretty well up on everyone!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 05, 2005, 11:28:03 PM
Quote
GDElla do you have any more info on Anna of Preussen?  You are usually pretty well up on everyone!


Not yet, though I can look. (Don't forget my original info debacle!  ;) ).

Your guess at the coloring of the portrait was pretty dead on--blue pelisse draped over the chair, etc...Good going!  :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Martyn on January 06, 2005, 05:32:17 PM
Quote

Not yet, though I can look. (Don't forget my original info debacle!  ;) ).

Your guess at the coloring of the portrait was pretty dead on--blue pelisse draped over the chair, etc...Good going!  :)


Thanks but it wasn't just a lucky guess.  I took a look at the website for Schloss Fasanerie and there was a small image of this painting that gave some indication of the colouring; I should have said.
I think that I got carried away when I actually saw the toilette in colour, as it is a very rare type of dress, and as I said previously, not many examples survive in costume galleries due to the fragile composition of the fabrics.  The overdress is of ivory silk tulle over a pink foundation; most of Winterhalter's paintings show these dresses as being white on white so it was a real treat to see the actual colour of Anna's costume.  I had no idea that it would be pink.  From what Thomas has said it also hangs in the Pink Boudoir, entirely appropriate!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: bluetoria on January 15, 2005, 09:29:04 AM
Please could anyone explain to me who QV is writing about here:
27 February 1858 'Poor Marianne, how v. unfortunae to a have a third girl...."
It is obviously the third daughter of Fritz Karl & Marianne of Anhalt. I have as their daughters:
Elizabeth (b. 1857) and Louise (1860). Could anyone tell me of the other daughters, please?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on January 15, 2005, 10:10:48 AM
Quote
Please could anyone explain to me who QV is writing about here:
27 February 1858 'Poor Marianne, how v. unfortunae to a have a third girl...."
It is obviously the third daughter of Fritz Karl & Marianne of Anhalt. I have as their daughters:
Elizabeth (b. 1857) and Louise (1860). Could anyone tell me of the other daughters, please?

The other daughters were Maria (1855- 88  ) and Anna (1858 -died the same year).Maria married previously to ugly Prince of Holland and then  - to Prince Albert of Saxe-Altenburg.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: bluetoria on January 15, 2005, 11:20:34 AM
Thank you very much, Svetabel! :) So it must have been poor little Anna she meant. How tragic & cruel to be unwanted and then to die so soon!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on May 04, 2005, 10:03:37 AM
Does anyone know where Anna and Friedrich lived after they got married?
Two pictures of Anna (would love to see more of her and Friedrich).
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/augustenborg%20kassel/annapresussen.jpg)


Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on May 04, 2005, 12:12:55 PM
Kmerov, the photos are just wonderful! never seen them.Thanks! :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 25, 2005, 11:52:14 AM
Hi, Want to know more about Landgrave Moritz's uncle Prince Richard of Hesse (1901-1969), son of Margaret of Prussia. Anyone ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 25, 2005, 04:12:36 PM
Listed in the 1944 Almanach de Gotha as ""NSKK Obergruppenfuhrer". He had been promoted from NSKK Gruppenfuhrer (1941) to SA Obergruppenfuhrer (1944). The NSKK was the National Socialist Motor Corps. It was a paramilitary organization of the Nazi Party that existed from 1931 to 1945. Membership didn't require any knowledge of automobiles and it was known to accept persons for membership without drivers' licenses. The NSKK did adhere to racial doctrine and screened its members for Aryan qualities. In 1945, the NSKK was disbanded and the group was declared a "condemned organization" at the Nuremberg Trials (although not a criminal one). This was due in part to the NSKK’s origins in the SA and its doctrine of racial superiority required from its members.

I've always been bothered by the length of time the Hesse boys (grandsons of Vicky and Fritz afterall) were involved with the Nazi regime--past the point that many royalties were who might've been attracted by the anti-communism platform. Contrasted with the Bavarian princes it's just really shameful. Marlene would probably know more about this--based on research on his brothers maybe she knows something more in depth on Richard.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 27, 2005, 02:31:17 PM
 I still wonder if anyone knows more about Richard? The only other thing I can add is that he didn't marry and, to the best of my knowledge, didn't have any children.

Also that so many of the children of Mossy, raised in the most liberal traditions of Vicky & Fritz, turned to Nazism--it just puzzles me. They weren't just casual, 'oh it was the time' members either--they were pretty serious. I wonder what Mossy thought of her sons involvement?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: rita on November 27, 2005, 02:54:10 PM
I think they had have the still hope to make a new career. And most of them underestimated the nazis.
This was also the problem of Stauffenberg and others. They went to the army without an exactly look to the regime
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Rebecca on November 27, 2005, 04:22:41 PM
Didn't prince Richard adopt his nephew prince Rainer, son of his twin brother prince Christoph? I think I've read that somewhere, and that it happened some time in the 1950's. Does anyone know the reason for the adoption? Maybe the reasons were financial (just guessing)?

Until I joined this discussion board and learned so many facts about all kinds of royals, I didn't know that the Hesses were so infected (I know it's a strong and perhaps unappropriate word) by the Nazis. Of course I knew that prince Christoph was killed in action (in Italy, I believe), but the fact that more or less all of them were so deeply involved with the Nazis was news to me.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 27, 2005, 04:36:31 PM
Quote
I think they had have the still hope to make a new career. And most of them underestimated the nazis.
This was also the problem of Stauffenberg and others. They went to the army without an exactly look to the regime


It's the extent that bothers me. They were quite involved throughout--even when some of the intent of the Nazis was known. Many royals became disenchanted and dropped out in the 30s but not the Hesses.

I just can't help but compare them, unfavorably, to those such as CP Rupprecht and Ludwig Hesse (Darmstadt) who were anti-Nazi at great risk to themselves.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 27, 2005, 04:38:30 PM
Prince Christoph died in a plane explosion during WW2.

Philip's wife Mafalda, discussed on another thread, died in Buchenwald after her father, King Vittorio Emmanuel of Italy broke with the Nazis.

Another Hesse wife, Marie-Alexandra of Baden, died in an air raid on Frankfurt.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 27, 2005, 09:07:25 PM
Would like to see some photos of Richard, if one can find any of his later years...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on November 28, 2005, 08:46:37 AM
Quote
Didn't prince Richard adopt his nephew prince Rainer, son of his twin brother prince Christoph? I think I've read that somewhere, and that it happened some time in the 1950's. Does anyone know the reason for the adoption? Maybe the reasons were financial (just guessing)?

Until I joined this discussion board and learned so many facts about all kinds of royals, I didn't know that the Hesses were so infected (I know it's a strong and perhaps unappropriate word) by the Nazis. Of course I knew that prince Christoph was killed in action (in Italy, I believe), but the fact that more or less all of them were so deeply involved with the Nazis was news to me.


Yes,  Richard adopted Rainer - for financial reasons in order to pass on his inheritance with a limited tax burden.  Christoph was indeed on active duty when his plane crashed into the mountains, but not as the result of enemy fire or a bomb placed on board  ...

A new book about the Hesses and Hitler is due out shortly - ROyals and the Reich by Jonathan Petropolous, to be published by Oxford in  Feb 2006.

Richard lived rather quietly after the war - .  I will check Wolfgang's memoirs (published privately in German) to see what he writes about his brother.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on November 28, 2005, 08:50:51 AM
Quote
I think they had have the still hope to make a new career. And most of them underestimated the nazis.
This was also the problem of Stauffenberg and others. They went to the army without an exactly look to the regime



You must read the book, Who Financed Hitler ... interesting reading.   Grand Duchess Victoria of Russia saw National Socialism as a way to defeat Soviet Russia, and bring her husband to the throne.

Philip of Hesse was quite active with the Party - nearly from the get go.  He held political positions within the Hesse area.  It didn't hurt that his wife was a daughter of the Italian king.  Transcripts of a conversation between Hitler and Goering and Philip were made public after the war.  Hitler's attitude toward the Hesse family changed after Italian switched sides.  
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 28, 2005, 09:39:27 AM
Who wrote "Who Financed Hitler" ? Is is still out ?  ???
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 28, 2005, 10:17:24 AM
WHO FINANCED HITLER : The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power, 1919-1933

(Paperback) ISBN: 0671760831
(Hardback) ISBN: 0803790392

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: rita on November 28, 2005, 10:51:49 AM
Victoria Melita sold jewelleries and spent a lot of money to the NSDAP.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on November 28, 2005, 10:54:07 AM
Quote
Who wrote "Who Financed Hitler" ? Is is still out ?  ???


The authors are James and Suzanne Pool -and the book is long out of print, having been published in 1978.  YOu can find dozens of copies for sale at www.addall.com
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on November 28, 2005, 11:01:14 AM
Quote
Hi, Want to know more about Landgrave Moritz's uncle Prince Richard of Hesse (1901-1969), son of Margaret of Prussia. Anyone ?



Found this quote in the Washington post....  October 2, 1949 .. a column refers to Katherine Littell and her husband visiting France and Germany and "met again Prince Richard of Hese, an old-time friend, and one of the numerous nephews of the late Kaiser.  Prince Richard joined the Nazi party, says:  Hitler will be appreciated 50 years from now."

Fast forward 50 years:  1999 ... appreciated ..no, don't think so.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 28, 2005, 11:37:08 AM
How pathetic that he made that quote in 1949.  :-/
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Rebecca on November 28, 2005, 03:21:01 PM
Quote


Found this quote in the Washington post....  October 2, 1949 .. a column refers to Katherine Littell and her husband visiting France and Germany and "met again Prince Richard of Hese, an old-time friend, and one of the numerous nephews of the late Kaiser.  Prince Richard joined the Nazi party, says:  Hitler will be appreciated 50 years from now."



He was obviously still a Nazi four years after the war had ended and all the horrible crimes and atrocities committed by the Nazi regime and its allies were known to the whole world.  >:( I'm speechless.  :-X
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 28, 2005, 07:46:30 PM
Seems like an absolute fool !  :(
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: berno on March 04, 2007, 06:21:41 AM
Hi everybody,

I just am curious about why the Hesse-Kassel family doesn't has its own topic? It is really hard
to find information and pictures/paintings about the Hesse-Kassel family at one place or to find at all.
So I invite you all to share your information and pictures here.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Yseult on March 04, 2007, 09:44:45 AM
Hi everybody,

I just am curious about why the Hesse-Kassel family doesn't has its own topic? It is really hard
to find information and pictures/paintings about the Hesse-Kassel family at one place or to find at all.
So I invite you all to share your information and pictures here.

Let´s go ;)

The story began with Philipp I  Landgrave of Hesse, the "magnanimous", who was, by the way, a leading champion of the Reformation, but had a not very fair private life: he was married to the sickly princess Christine of Saxony, who borne him ten children, and, at the same time, he married, morganatically and bigamously, Margarethe von der Saale, who gave him not less than nine children.



When Philipp I was dead on march 1567, his territories were divided between the four sons of his first wife Christine. William became William IV of Hesse-Kassel, Louis became Louis IV of Hesse-Marburg, Philipp became Philipp II of Hesse-Rheinfelds and the younger, Georg, became Georg I of Hesse-Darmstadt.

William IV of Hesse-Kassel, the founder of the first male line, took a part in the safeguard of the Lutheran Reformation, but he gained fame cause his patronage of the arts and science, and for being, himself, a pioneer in astronomical research. He married princess Sabine of Württemberg, who gave him eleven children, but he had also illegitimate issue by his mistress Elisabeth Wallenstein.



The older son of William and Sabine, was the landgrave Moritz of Hesse-Kassel. He married twice: firstly, with Agnes zu Solms-Laubach and, secondly, with Julianne von Nassau-Siegen. Moritz had been raised in the Lutheranism, but he converted to Calvinism. He also had time enough to ruined financially his family ;)

And now it´s time for landgrave William V of Hese-Kassel, son of Moritz by Agnes zu Solms-Laubach. He was married to Amalie Elisabeth of Hanau-Münzenberg. They suffered the War of the Thirty Years: William was dead in exile, and Amalie Elisabeth, mother of twelve children, was energetic and strong-willed enough to act as a regent for their son, William VI.

By the way, she was not only the mother of William VI, but also of Charlotte, who married Karl Ludwig of the Paltz and had a daughter, Charlotte Elisabeth, named Liselotte...The famous Liselotte of Orleans was a grand-daughter of our Amalie Elisabeth.

Landgrave William VI of Hesse-Kassel married Hedwig Sophie of Brandenburg. They became the parents not only of William VII but also of two famous princesses of this hessian branch: Charlotte Amalie, by her marriage with Christian V queen of Denmark, and Elisabeth Henriette, by her marriage with Frederick I queen of Prussia (note: the two ladys were paternal aunts of Liselotte of the Paltz).






 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: regensburg on January 17, 2008, 01:08:29 PM
Can anyone give me any information on this member of the Hessen-Kassel family who was listed as head of family 1884-1888? I know nothing of him and I have never seen any image of him.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Michael II on January 17, 2008, 07:29:36 PM
If you google Frederick II Landgrave of Hesse Kassel the Wikipedia has a good portrait of him and some basic info.  His first wife was Princess Mary of Great Britian the daughter of George II.  The divorced when he decided to become a Catholic.  Just remember the Wikipedia is by no
mean a reliable soure of information.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: regensburg on January 18, 2008, 01:12:29 PM
I'm afraid that's the wrong one. The one I want is in the 19th century, the one you refer to is 18th century.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: allanraymond on January 18, 2008, 07:42:11 PM
Too many Friedrich Wilhelm's in my response below, so be aware.

Landgrave Friedrich Wilhelm II of Hesse-Cassel (1854-1888) was the son of Landgrave Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Cassel (1820-1884) and Princess Anne of Prussia (1836-1918).

The elder Friedrich Wilhelm succeeded his second cousin Elector Friedrich Wilhelm (1802-1875) as representative of the House of Hesse-Cassel. Elector Friedrich Wilhelm I lost his throne on 20 September 1866 when Hesse was annexed to Prussia. The title of Elector ceased to be used following the death of Elector Friedrich Wilhelm I.

The younger Friedrich Wilhelm II succeeded  his father but unfortunately died at sea en route from Batavia to Singapore.

Allan Raymond

Can anyone give me any information on this member of the Hessen-Kassel family who was listed as head of family 1884-1888? I know nothing of him and I have never seen any image of him.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: regensburg on January 21, 2008, 05:41:11 PM
Thankyou for that ! It makes things much clearer. The site doesn't have good details and years are much more helpful in placing someone on their family tree. Unfortunately this means I still haven't tracked down my image.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Kevin From Australia on January 25, 2008, 07:41:51 PM
The Landgrave Friedrich Wilhelm disappeared off the boat Volga between Batavia and Singapore on Ovtober 14, 1888 - he had been suffereing from the heat in Batavia and the party decided to travel to Singapore - the boarded on the 13th - the Prince was in fine form that evening but went to bed about 9 pm asking not to be disturbed until 6 am.  The next morning when his servant went to wake him, he indicated that he want to continue to sleep - the servant stayed outside teh cabin, hearing the Prince cough occasionally, however when the servant checked the cabin after 1.30 pm, it was empty - the only ofther way out of the cabin was the porthole, which was not big enough to accidently fall out of.  He had been suffering previously in Batavia and his suite believe that he was over come by "some mental disturbance".  This information was reported in the Singapore Free Press of October 16, 1888
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: allanraymond on January 26, 2008, 02:33:54 PM
Kevin

Thanks for the additional information relating to his untimely death.

Allan Raymond

The Landgrave Friedrich Wilhelm disappeared off the boat Volga between Batavia and Singapore on Ovtober 14, 1888 - he had been suffereing from the heat in Batavia and the party decided to travel to Singapore - the boarded on the 13th - the Prince was in fine form that evening but went to bed about 9 pm asking not to be disturbed until 6 am.  The next morning when his servant went to wake him, he indicated that he want to continue to sleep - the servant stayed outside teh cabin, hearing the Prince cough occasionally, however when the servant checked the cabin after 1.30 pm, it was empty - the only ofther way out of the cabin was the porthole, which was not big enough to accidently fall out of.  He had been suffering previously in Batavia and his suite believe that he was over come by "some mental disturbance".  This information was reported in the Singapore Free Press of October 16, 1888
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on March 11, 2008, 08:50:49 PM
I was wondering if there is any information about them and their children Christina, Dorothea, Karl, and Rainer?
Also are there any photographs of them?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 12, 2008, 08:44:58 AM
The book Royals and the Reich (which is discussed on this forum) has a good deal of information on Christoph. Sophie has information in the Greek section under the thread she shares with her sisters and also photos in the Queen Olga's granddaughters thread. There are possibly some photos of Christoph in the thread on his mother, "Mossy".
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 09, 2008, 01:21:04 PM
Indeed...They are quite private and not a lot of photos taken of them...unless it was afamily event or wedding.  :(
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on July 02, 2008, 10:47:50 PM


You will find information about the family in my book, Queen Victoria's descendants.  The Inheritors of Alexander the Great by George Tantzos has numerous family photos (and many of these photos are in my private collection.)

I was wondering if there is any information about them and their children Christina, Dorothea, Karl, and Rainer?
Also are there any photographs of them?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Lena Marie on July 03, 2008, 03:12:38 PM
I need photos of Christoph of Hesse ::)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on July 03, 2008, 03:25:22 PM
I'd check the Royals and the Reich book. It had the most photos of Christoph I think I've seen gathered together.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Norbert on July 03, 2008, 05:14:33 PM
can anyone confirm that their grand daughter Marina  has married Lorenzo Salviati?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 04, 2008, 01:46:11 AM
Not sure...

I think the Hesse archievs in Schloss Farenerie in Fulda would have lots of Christoph, other than the family that is... ;)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on July 23, 2008, 11:49:55 AM



They broke up years ago.

can anyone confirm that their grand daughter Marina  has married Lorenzo Salviati?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Gabriella on August 25, 2008, 03:15:21 PM
I need photos of Christoph of Hesse ::)

Christoph and Sophie with Cecile and Georg-Donatus. The picture was made after their engagements.
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/CecileSophieundfiancees.jpg)

The wedding picture of Christoph and Sophie:
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/SisterofPrincePhilipgettingmarried_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 26, 2008, 02:35:50 PM
I think both in Hugo Vickers book on Alice...I think. Look at Tiny's tiara, it was Malfalda's tiara ! She must have borrowed it !
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 04, 2008, 09:10:34 AM

Prince Rainer of Hesse is an extremely friendly and natural man - a man of finest manners. I met him just recently on occasion of a recital in memory of Ludwig Prince of Hesse and the Rhine.
He is working for the family foundation of the House of Hesse and is a professional historian. He has written a book on his great-grandmother Victoria Empress Friedrich, one about a more ancient ancestor and some of the articles in the catalog on the exhibition: "Hesse - a Princely German Collection" are by him as well. In it he also talks about the Nazi relations of his family.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 06, 2008, 02:23:23 PM
But itn't it his brother Prinz Moritz the head of the Hesse Family ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 06, 2008, 04:10:19 PM
Landgraf Moritz, the head of the family, is Prince Rainer's cousin - their fathers were brothers. Rainer's mother was Sophia "Tiny" of Greece the Duke of Edinburgh's youngest sister.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 07, 2008, 01:48:17 PM
Indeed...although he has half siblings since "Tiny" married Georg of Hannover.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: royaltybuff on November 10, 2008, 07:31:08 PM
Landgraf Moritz, the head of the family, is Prince Rainer's cousin - their fathers were brothers. Rainer's mother was Sophia "Tiny" of Greece the Duke of Edinburgh's youngest sister.

Didn't Sophie help care for Moritz and his siblings after his mother, Princess Mafalda, died in Buchenwald concentration camp during World War II? Does anyone know what kind of relationship Sophie had with those children later in life. I have seen photos on this forum of Sophie and her second husband, George of Hanover, with Prince Moritz and the Duke of Edinburgh.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2008, 11:59:08 AM
Yes...Sophie did assist in helping the children to cope with their loss, however she had her arms full with her own children and her remarriage to Georg of Hannover. Peg  & Lu Hesse were more of a hands on parent for Moritz and his siblings. It was this close link that resulted in Peg naming Moritz her heir.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 11, 2008, 03:13:40 PM

This is not quite correct. Actually Princess Sophia palyed an important role in the children's life - tho during the wartime they all lived at Wolfsgarten.
The Landgraf and his siblings spend much time in Italy (Prince Heinrich "Dendy" had his main residence there in later years...)

One may not forget that they still had their father, Landgraf Phillip who died in 1980. They lived with him at Fasanerie as well as in Kronberg.
The Darmstadt line of the Hessian House adopted him in order to keep the family heritage together and to re-unite the lines which had been splitted in the 16th century.
The most wonderful symbol for that fusion has been the large exhibition "Hesse - a princely German collection" in the Portland Museum of Art.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2008, 03:49:55 PM
That is what I said. Sophie with Peg & Lu took charge of the motherless children. However after her remarriage, she was taken out of the equation. Both Peg & Lu took an interest in the children and their imput should not be downplayed.

Actually, the Mountbattens were closer in blood to the House of Hesse And By Rhine than the Hesse-Kassel Line. VMH was the eldest surviving sister of Grand Duke Ernst and aunt of both Don & Lu. So in terms of bloodlines, the House of Milford Haven had a better claim I think.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: royaltybuff on November 11, 2008, 05:23:21 PM

This is not quite correct. Actually Princess Sophia palyed an important role in the children's life - tho during the wartime they all lived at Wolfsgarten.
The Landgraf and his siblings spend much time in Italy (Prince Heinrich "Dendy" had his main residence there in later years...)


This is what I thought, too. Hugo Vickers dealt briefly with Sophie caring for her children, as well as Mafalda's children during World War II in his book "Alice, Princess Andrew of Greece."
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2008, 06:09:32 PM
Yes I agree with that. It was also in Prinz Richard's book...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 14, 2008, 05:34:07 PM
At the risk of sounding ignorant, wasn't Christoph a Nazi? Also wasn't one or two of his brothers Nazi too? Mossy had about 6 kids right? Two sets of twins as well?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 15, 2008, 11:49:39 AM

Both brothers as well as their father were members of the NS Party - in order to restore the glory of their Dynasty. Their father, the husband of Princess Margarethe "Mossy", is said to have seen his high position as a Governor within the NS system as a kind of "reparation" for the loss of the throne/title of the family during the German War in 1866
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Linnea on November 15, 2008, 12:04:35 PM
Did Sophie - like her sister Cecilie - also join the NSDAP-party?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 15, 2008, 01:42:23 PM

Both brothers as well as their father were members of the NS Party - in order to restore the glory of their Dynasty. Their father, the husband of Princess Margarethe "Mossy", is said to have seen his high position as a Governor within the NS system as a kind of "reparation" for the loss of the throne/title of the family during the German War in 1866

I see. However, did they know and/or support the horrors behind the Nazi Party? 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 15, 2008, 01:46:53 PM

Well, after 1945 you'd find barely a person who had known anything :) Of course all changed their mind afterwards... most of them genuinely I guess. Landgraf Phillip as well as his consort Mafalda had been in concentration camps. Mafalda died there... They definitely had no good opinion of Hitler and the NS Regime several years before the War ended
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 15, 2008, 02:01:26 PM
Kind of ironic I say that they ended up in concentration camps. Interesting to see how many of QV's Great and Great-Great Grandchildren became Nazi. I can only imagine what she would say if she saw it herself.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 15, 2008, 02:45:55 PM
I understand it completely that they - in the beginning - trusted Hitler and his party. Keep in mind the awful times after the revolution: nothing to eat, inflation, many people lost everything they owned, believed. After thousands of years of monarchy.... maybe it had to come in order to wake people up and to make them aware of their rights.
Many found work, food. The Royals believed it kind of restauration.
Even Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig was enthusiastic about it - not for his own position, but for his people whom he passionately loved. But soon he deeply regretted of having been so positively motivated about it.
Knowing these facts I clearly see why all of them joined the party. I would have done too presumably
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 15, 2008, 02:51:38 PM
There is now a book published that dealswith the Royal House of Hesse and the Nazi Party. It is a good read and I do recommended it as it was done with co-operation of the Prince Rainer of Hesse and the achievs. The back of the book had a list of royals who joined the Nazi Party.

Interestingly Sofie of Greece was NOT a member of the Nazi Party although her husband, her sisters and husbands were. It shows Sofie was her own woman in terms of political convictions go.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 15, 2008, 08:10:04 PM
I understand it completely that they - in the beginning - trusted Hitler and his party. Keep in mind the awful times after the revolution: nothing to eat, inflation, many people lost everything they owned, believed. After thousands of years of monarchy.... maybe it had to come in order to wake people up and to make them aware of their rights.
Many found work, food. The Royals believed it kind of Restoration.
Even Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig was enthusiastic about it - not for his own position, but for his people whom he passionately loved. But soon he deeply regretted of having been so positively motivated about it.
Knowing these facts I clearly see why all of them joined the party. I would have done too presumably

Well in that situation I can obviously see why many German Royals joined the party. I just hope many left or didn't believe in the horrible ideals of Hitler and his Party. 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 17, 2008, 10:40:37 AM
Well...It depends when you join and when you start to pull back. Kaiser Bill was one of Hitler's early admirers, but when he knew the full scope of the Nazi Terror, he pull back on his support. He even refuse to allow his furneral to become a rallying point for the Reich.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on November 17, 2008, 12:34:15 PM
Knowing these facts I clearly see why all of them joined the party. I would have done too presumably
Would you really? That's quite distressing! The terror brought by the Nazis was already apparent at an early stage, years before the Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass, commemorated last week. You live in the Rhein-Main area, only a few miles from Frankfurt. The parents of Anne Frank and their children fled from Frankfurt as early as July 1933, because by 1933 the atmosphere had already become so antisemitic that they realised that they and other Jews were not safe any more in the very area where you live. And you would consciously have joined a party advocating that situation? 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 17, 2008, 12:52:56 PM
Knowing these facts I clearly see why all of them joined the party. I would have done too presumably
Would you really? That's quite distressing! The terror brought by the Nazis was already apparent at an early stage, years before the Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass, commemorated last week. You live in the Rhein-Main area, only a few miles from Frankfurt. The parents of Anne Frank and their children fled from Frankfurt as early as July 1933, because by 1933 the atmosphere had already become so antisemitic that they realised that they and other Jews were not safe any more in the very area where you live. And you would consciously have joined a party advocating that situation? 

I of course can't speak for Thomas Hesse, but I think he meant that if he were a royal living in that time period he would possibly join rather then himself at this moment knowing what we all know now.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 17, 2008, 12:56:49 PM
I think the Hessian House was in contact with the party even before the Machtergreifung in the late 1920ies.
Considering the incredibly hard times and the Europe-wide downfall of thrones and monarchy which was unique in history it is quite understandable why the Royal Houses wanted to believe the dogmas of the Hitler Regime.
Lateron Hitler forbade members of formerly ruling families to participate in his system (like Prince Ludwig).

You mention the Frank family which fled in 1933. I know many others which stayed much longer: the famous Pringsheims for example, the parents in law of Thomas Mann left in 1939. Do you really think the terror interested the politicans? Does it in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Irak, Georgia nowadays?

I think that people did not see the terror that early. Maybe they did not want to see it. there are always sacrifices to be done if you want a real change of things... this is what many people thought in those days.
The result was an extraordinary tragedy in world's history - but few people could have known when they joined the NS party. There were no alternatives....Afterwards one is always wiser....I do not blame them. Not for their hope but, of course, for everything which happened lateron
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on November 17, 2008, 12:58:18 PM
I of course can't speak for Thomas Hesse, but I think he meant that if he were a royal living in that time period he would possibly join rather then himself at this moment knowing what we all know now.
Let's hope so.  Nevertheless, he  - if he had been a royal living in Darmstadt in that time period - and any royal who did live in Darmstadt in that time period could have known that they were joining a party that made fellow-Germans people flee from Germany to neighbouring countries.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 17, 2008, 01:16:43 PM
I would guess that royals who did join the party in the early years didn't see or chose not to see the bad aspects of the Nazi Party. They were mostly just looking at the benefits of joining the party to them personally.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on November 17, 2008, 01:19:23 PM
Considering the incredibly hard times and the Europe-wide downfall of thrones and monarchy which was unique in history it is quite understandable why the Royal Houses wanted to believe the dogmas of the Hitler Regime.
Is it? I don't think it was understandable at all.

You mention the Frank family which fled in 1933. I know many others which stayed much longer: the famous Pringsheims for example, the parents in law of Thomas Mann left in 1939. ...
I think that people did not see the terror that early. Maybe they did not want to see it. there are always sacrifices to be done if you want a real change of things... this is what many people thought in those days.
In a book published not too long ago, a historian - I'm not sure, but it may have been Ian Kershaw - analysed in detail the information available to Germans at the time. If I recall well, one of the conclusions of this study was that most Germans could have known about the way the Jewish population  in Germany was treated, both in the years before the war and during the war, but that the majority of the Germans simply didn't care. This would be in line with your thought that "they did not want to see it". Forgive me, but I think it simply horrifying that they may have considered their antisemitism as a "sacrifice to be done if you want a real change of things". There are peaceful ways to work a country out of an economic depression!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 17, 2008, 01:27:52 PM
Interesting information Helen about that Ian Kershaw book. However, us living in the present and knowing what we all know about the Nazi Party makes it easier for us to judge those back then. We can't truly know what they thought or went through during that time to join such a party. This, of course doesn't excuse them if they knowingly knew about the real horrors behind the Nazi Party though.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 17, 2008, 02:50:20 PM
I think most reasonable people start doubitng when the Nazis started to persecute others just because they are different (Jews, Gysies, gays...etc).
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on November 17, 2008, 03:43:42 PM
Nate1865, I agree with you to a certain point. I wasn't born yet in the 1930s or 1940s, so I cannot speak from personal experience. Yet my parents and their siblings and many friends and relatives of mine did go through the prewar years and the war itself, and they remember how the situation was as if it was yesterday. People of my generation have all heard very personal stories, told by close relatives and friends, about the horrors - hunger, air attacks, imprisonment, torture - they went through during the war and the dilemmas they were faced with in these years. The war may have ended 63 years ago, and it's true that people from postwar generations can't truly know what people thought or went through in those years, but we have plenty of information at first hand - from both sides.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 17, 2008, 03:50:48 PM
Indeed...However in a desperate situation people can be persuaded to do extreme things. The Nazis did built up the German pride again at the expense of the Jews.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on November 17, 2008, 04:00:24 PM
...  and at the expense of millions of other people all over Europe and the thousands and thousands of soldiers from the US, Canada and other Allied countries who gave their lives to liberate us.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Nate1865 on November 17, 2008, 05:24:03 PM
Nate1865, I agree with you to a certain point. I wasn't born yet in the 1930s or 1940s, so I cannot speak from personal experience. Yet my parents and their siblings and many friends and relatives of mine did go through the prewar years and the war itself, and they remember how the situation was as if it was yesterday. People of my generation have all heard very personal stories, told by close relatives and friends, about the horrors - hunger, air attacks, imprisonment, torture - they went through during the war and the dilemmas they were faced with in these years. The war may have ended 63 years ago, and it's true that people from postwar generations can't truly know what people thought or went through in those years, but we have plenty of information at first hand - from both sides.

Helen, sorry to hear that many of your family members and friends had to go through such a horrible time. I myself, cannot imagine going through that. Despite what we all feel about the matter, I'm sure we all can agree that that era won't be forgotten and must not be forgotten. I just hope those royals did see the truth about the party and rid themselves of their support and ideals. Does anyone know if Christoph did leave the party once it became apparent what the Nazi Party was about? 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 18, 2008, 02:49:25 AM
I cannot understand why people are not able to forgive. It is an incredible harm to me reading again and again how dreadful that time was - even if the War ended 63 years ago. When reading your posts, Helen, I always get the impression as if Germans would try to deny or negate their crimes during the NS periode - which is not at all the case. Even the former offenders have to cope with these years have to digest them. Films, documentaries, memorials and an incredible amount of money and work of German people and Soldiers all over the world are the results.
Once there must be an end - once there has to be a final stroke. Why? Because of that work of the Germans NOWadays and even because there is something people tend to forget in the whole story: the people on the other side. Not all Germans were Nazis or - even if they were forced to be part of the party - did support the system. The opposition, the resistance: the Scholl siblings, Graf Stauffenberg and all the others. They suffered too and wanted to change circumstances. Not to forget the bombing of German towns towards the end of the war - an act of mere revenge in many cases. The long years of allied occupation, brutal rape. I can easily provide you with a DVD of "Brandmale" a film made in memory of the destruction of Darmstadt on Sept 11th 1944. They even interviewed British soldiers - teenagers who thought they were heroes when bombing the city. They did not think of the 12.000 civilists dying down there in an enormous fire-storm.
 My great-grandparents did hide several jewish families in their house during the wartime and safed their lifes - putting at risk their own ones. What I am trying to say is: there are always TWO sides - in any case. And I'd like to beg you to chose your words more careful in that delicate case. Du verletzt auch Menschen, die Dich sehr mögen, Dich und Deine Freundschaft, trotz allem, sehr schätzen. Let us put it aside please.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 18, 2008, 07:58:44 AM
The subject of Nazism is always going to be a sensative subject, and should be talked of in that thread.

I am interested in Sophie in how she was able to resist getting involved personally into the Nazi Party, while her husband was. It might be that they did not discuss politics in their private lives. Countess Mountbatten told me that Sophie was a strong minded woman, I guess that helped.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on November 18, 2008, 09:06:40 AM
The subject of Nazism is always going to be a sensitive subject, and should be talked of in that thread.
Yes, you're right. I hope you will permit me to reply to Thomas' post, though.


I cannot understand why people are not able to forgive. It is an incredible harm to me reading again and again how dreadful that time was - even if the War ended 63 years ago. When reading your posts, Helen, I always get the impression as if Germans would try to deny or negate their crimes during the NS period - which is not at all the case. Even the former offenders have to cope with these years have to digest them. Films, documentaries, memorials and an incredible amount of money and work of German people and Soldiers all over the world are the results.
Once there must be an end - once there has to be a final stroke. Why? Because of that work of the Germans NOWadays and even because there is something people tend to forget in the whole story: the people on the other side. Not all Germans were Nazis or - even if they were forced to be part of the party - did support the system. The opposition, the resistance: the Scholl siblings, Graf Stauffenberg and all the others. They suffered too and wanted to change circumstances. Not to forget the bombing of German towns towards the end of the war - an act of mere revenge in many cases. The long years of allied occupation, brutal rape. I can easily provide you with a DVD of "Brandmale" a film made in memory of the destruction of Darmstadt on Sept 11th 1944. They even interviewed British soldiers - teenagers who thought they were heroes when bombing the city. They did not think of the 12.000 civilists dying down there in an enormous firestorm.
My great-grandparents did hide several Jewish families in their house during the wartime and saved their lives - putting at risk their own ones. What I am trying to say is: there are always TWO sides - in any case. And I'd like to beg you to chose your words more careful in that delicate case. Du verletzt auch Menschen, die Dich sehr mögen, Dich und Deine Freundschaft, trotz allem, sehr schätzen. Let us put it aside please.
Thumbs up for your great-grandparents!

Thomas, you may have missed my point. I don't think 'forgiveness' is the issue here. I live in a border area where my fellow-countrymen and I get along perfectly well with our German 'eastern neighbours', both at official levels and informally. The war is not really an issue here any more, and people are moving forward together. I hope you will agree with me that 'forgiveness' is not the same as an obligation imposed on victims - from whatever nationality - to understand, to approve of, or to feel sympathy for whatever disastrous decisions certain groups of people may have made in the past. Nor does 'forgiveness', imo, include an obligation to keep silent about what happened. As Nate1865 said, "that era won't be forgotten and must not be forgotten". 'Remembering that era' is not only about laying wreaths once a year. I think it's also about allowing victims - from whatever nationality - to share their life stories, so that people can learn from them. You have started discussions about the war, and more specifically the air attacks on Darmstadt, over and over again. I'm sorry if it is painful to you, but please allow other people the same right to refer to the existence of their stories.

For the record: I did not write that all Germans were Nazis, nor that Germans en masse try to deny what happened. What I did write is that we have plenty of firsthand information from both sides, which was an explicit recognition of the fact that there is more than one side to the story of WWII.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 18, 2008, 10:41:59 AM
Indeed. Sophie's mother Princess Andrew of Greece hide Jews in her house to escape from the Nazis.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on November 20, 2008, 01:52:10 AM
Then I have great respect for her, too.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 20, 2008, 09:06:52 AM
Indeed. Prince Philip accepted an award from the state of Isreal for what Alice did. That is also why she was allowed to be buried in Jerusalem near her favourite Aunt Ella. I also heard that Queen Mother Helen of Romania also assisted Jews in her situation too.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marie Valerie on December 05, 2008, 02:37:51 PM
Considering the incredibly hard times and the Europe-wide downfall of thrones and monarchy which was unique in history it is quite understandable why the Royal Houses wanted to believe the dogmas of the Hitler Regime.
Is it? I don't think it was understandable at all.

You mention the Frank family which fled in 1933. I know many others which stayed much longer: the famous Pringsheims for example, the parents in law of Thomas Mann left in 1939. ...
I think that people did not see the terror that early. Maybe they did not want to see it. there are always sacrifices to be done if you want a real change of things... this is what many people thought in those days.
In a book published not too long ago, a historian - I'm not sure, but it may have been Ian Kershaw - analysed in detail the information available to Germans at the time. If I recall well, one of the conclusions of this study was that most Germans could have known about the way the Jewish population  in Germany was treated, both in the years before the war and during the war, but that the majority of the Germans simply didn't care. This would be in line with your thought that "they did not want to see it". Forgive me, but I think it simply horrifying that they may have considered their antisemitism as a "sacrifice to be done if you want a real change of things". There are peaceful ways to work a country out of an economic depression!



Please, shut up if you don't know what was it like then.

At this years my Grand-Grandmother had 16 children, her eldest boys in the army, she tried to survive daily bombing-terror and get food for her little kids.
And she was send two times to a Konzentrationslager near Hamburg, one time because she hide jews and was betrayed by the Blockwart.
She was there a few weeks but later released because she had a Mother's Cross for so many children.
The other time she was arrested, when her son died in action and she send a memorial-letter to all family and friends.
The letter says something like: ...my son was killed by Hitler and his fashistic regime..
And then she was send to the KZ again, but also later released.

Sorry, that my Grand-Grandmother had no time, between her kids and bombing-terror, to made a revolution against Hitler!







Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 05, 2008, 05:30:35 PM
Marie_Valerie, I understand and respect that your great-grandmother had a very hard time during the war. Many people - both German and non-German - had very practical difficulties to keep their heads above water during WWII. No one is denying that. And it's also clear that not everyone was in a position to do major heroic deeds during the war.

The study I referred to, however,  was an in-depth professional academic study of the circumstances of the rise of Hitler from the early years, the attitudes of Germans towards the Jewish population of Germany in the years before the war and the way in which these attitudes developed over the years, as well as the information that was available to Germans in these years before the war and during the war, and much more.  A large part of this study focused on the years before the war, when no German man or boy had been sent to the front yet, when no German city had been bombed yet, and when the German population still might have been able to stop the Nazis. This historian reached Some conclusions about the attitudes of the majority of the German population - or at least large sections of it - towards Jews and the way they were treated in Germany; he did not say it applied to all Germans. Please don't shout at me when you do not agree with the conclusions of his research.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: LenelorMiksi on December 06, 2008, 12:14:20 PM
Here's a link to Sophie's obituary which contains a neat little biography:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1363868/H-R-H-Princess-George-of-Hanover.html
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 09, 2008, 03:39:26 AM
Here's a link to Sophie's obituary which contains a neat little biography:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1363868/H-R-H-Princess-George-of-Hanover.html
Interestingly Sofie of Greece was NOT a member of the Nazi Party .
Thank you, LenelorMiksi, for the link. If I'm not mistaken, Prince Christoph became a member of the Nazi party in 1931, the year after their wedding. His wife Sophie did not. Is anything known about how this affected their marriage?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 09, 2008, 09:22:33 AM
Intially they did not let that issue affect their marriage.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 10, 2008, 01:54:34 AM
Thank you. I can quite well imagine, though, that their opinions became more and more divided over the years and that their differences became irreconcilable.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2008, 09:50:46 AM
Sophie was quite mature beyond her years and knew of her husband's inclinations before marrying him. The fact that she did not join the Nazi Party spoke volumes already.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 11, 2008, 12:21:33 AM
Sophie was quite mature beyond her years and knew of her husband's inclinations before marrying him. The fact that she did not join the Nazi Party spoke volumes already.
Yes, it does... yet also raises further questions.  :-\
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 11, 2008, 09:21:03 AM
On what ? They were happy with each other until he was killed in action.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on December 11, 2008, 10:29:32 AM
If you are interested in Sophia and her husband's realation you could easily write to their son HRH Rainer Prince of Hesse - a very charming man and being a historian he has written much on the family's history in the Nazi period!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 11, 2008, 11:18:47 AM
I have talked to him and he seemed not wanting to relate too much in this matter. Somebody told me he actually wasn't too happy with the book as well.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on December 11, 2008, 12:27:30 PM
It is actually HH not HRH ... and Rainer actually does not like to focus on the subject ... however, Christoph became disillusioned with the party, according to Sophie in correspondence with me .. It is a subject that is also discussed in Prince Wolfgang's autobiography

If you are interested in Sophia and her husband's realation you could easily write to their son HRH Rainer Prince of Hesse - a very charming man and being a historian he has written much on the family's history in the Nazi period!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 11, 2008, 01:47:05 PM
Thank you for the suggestion, Thomas. I don't think I will take it up, though. I don't doubt HH Rainer Prince of Hesse is a very charming man, as you say, but it is only natural that he should be none too keen on sharing such information on the relationship between his parents and the era of WWII, insofar such knowledge is not in the 'public domain' yet. I'd better see whether the questions I have are answered in Prince Wolfgang's autobiography, as Marlene suggested.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on December 11, 2008, 03:38:59 PM
Helen ... and what is even more important is that Rainier was a child during the war, and he lost his father at a young age.  Information would be clouded by, perhaps, emotion, as well as secondary sources.  He would have had to rely on what others - including his mother - said about the situation.
Thank you for the suggestion, Thomas. I don't think I will take it up, though. I don't doubt HH Rainer Prince of Hesse is a very charming man, as you say, but it is only natural that he should be none too keen on sharing such information on the relationship between his parents and the era of WWII, insofar such knowledge is not in the 'public domain' yet. I'd better see whether the questions I have are answered in Prince Wolfgang's autobiography, as Marlene suggested.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on December 11, 2008, 03:40:08 PM
Is tihis sort of answer even necessary?  Eric, you do not have to respond to every post, you know ... especially when you are not really providing further information ...

Good idea.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on December 11, 2008, 03:41:10 PM
Yes, the memoir was privately printed.  I have a copy.

Good idea, but perhaps not very feasible. According to information Marlene provided on an other thread, Prince Wolfgang's memoirs were privately printed.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 11, 2008, 04:01:51 PM
Yes...maybe you can ask Marlene if you can borrow or xenox information from it ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 11, 2008, 04:14:58 PM
Xerox information from it? Yes, sure! Wouldn't that constitute an infringement of copyrights? LOL :D
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 11, 2008, 04:28:37 PM
... and what is even more important is that Rainier was a child during the war, and he lost his father at a young age.  Information would be clouded by, perhaps, emotion, as well as secondary sources.  He would have had to rely on what others - including his mother - said about the situation.
Yes, too true. He was born during WWII, so he's not very likely to have clear, coherent memories of the first years of the war.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on December 12, 2008, 05:54:37 AM
In Germany one says: asking is for free.....

He told the guests so much about several relations - with a certain "glitter" in his eyes :) I mean it is quite delicate a period but finally he has written and said much about it and there are no secrets whatsoever. Plus: it is not necessary to actually witness an age to be an expert about it. There are plenty of documents and as you said before: the Prince might have got many stories from his mother, Prince and Princess Ludwig etc.
I guess Marlene has not known Queen Victoria or anyone who knew her - nonetheless she is able to write about the Victorian Age ^^
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2008, 08:45:17 AM
Indeed...However a lot of people assumed much information was lost due to the WW II. Yes...I agree I found most of the German archievs very helpful and good suggestions that led me to what I want to know.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2008, 01:56:20 PM

Making a photocopy of something does not violate copypright .. making 2 copies of something does violate copyright.  Making a copy for someone else also violates copyright ... making one copy for oneself does not violate copyright ...

Helen, you are a librarian, right -- so you should know this ... certainly if you are a librarian in the US who graduated from an ALA-accredited school, you will know how to handle copyright ...

and if you check WorldCat, you will find that 8 libraries in the world have the book  -- all are in Germany.

Xerox information from it? Yes, sure! Wouldn't that constitute an infringement of copyrights? LOL :D
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2008, 01:58:07 PM
However, the information would be clouded ... I haVe never written about the Victorian age .. I write about the people - based on sources and I cite those sources.

-
In Germany one says: asking is for free.....

He told the guests so much about several relations - with a certain "glitter" in his eyes :) I mean it is quite delicate a period but finally he has written and said much about it and there are no secrets whatsoever. Plus: it is not necessary to actually witness an age to be an expert about it. There are plenty of documents and as you said before: the Prince might have got many stories from his mother, Prince and Princess Ludwig etc.
I guess Marlene has not known Queen Victoria or anyone who knew her - nonetheless she is able to write about the Victorian Age ^^
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2008, 03:17:32 PM
Indeed...although people's opinons and morale codes are tied to their ages. For example the Edwardian age is much more progessive in thought than the early Victorian age.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 12, 2008, 04:33:51 PM
Helen, you are a librarian, right -- so you should know this ... certainly if you are a librarian in the US who graduated from an ALA-accredited school, you will know how to handle copyright ...
and if you check WorldCat, you will find that 8 libraries in the world have the book  -- all are in Germany.
Marlene, I think you may be confusing me with another Helen on this forum (Helen_A?). I'm not from the USA nor a librarian; I actually graduated in a totally different field and have only a limited knowledge of copyright law.

Thank you for bringing WorldCat to our attention. It should be easy to get Prince Wolfgang's Aufzeichnungen through interlibrary loan. :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marlene on December 15, 2008, 11:50:18 AM



Dear Helen

My apologies.  It depends if the libraries iin Germany will lend the books.
Helen, you are a librarian, right -- so you should know this ... certainly if you are a librarian in the US who graduated from an ALA-accredited school, you will know how to handle copyright ...
and if you check WorldCat, you will find that 8 libraries in the world have the book  -- all are in Germany.
Marlene, I think you may be confusing me with another Helen on this forum (Helen_A?). I'm not from the USA nor a librarian; I actually graduated in a totally different field and have only a limited knowledge of copyright law.

Thank you for bringing WorldCat to our attention. It should be easy to get Prince Wolfgang's Aufzeichnungen through interlibrary loan. :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 15, 2008, 01:28:03 PM
Well...I don't think it is impossible. The libraries and archieves there in Germany are generally quite helpful. I have been there and was pleased by their egarness to help.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Helen on December 15, 2008, 02:04:47 PM
Dear Helen
My apologies.  It depends if the libraries in Germany will lend the books.
No need to apologize!  :)

It's true that not all libraries are prepared to lend books. However, several of the libraries WorldCat mentioned for this book are university libraries, and they may still allow people to read/inspect this book in supervised reading rooms at other universities when they do not want to lend it out properly.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on April 23, 2009, 05:10:51 PM
Empress Friedrich's letters to Anna

(http://www.schloss-fasanerie.de/schloss/archiv3b.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on May 02, 2009, 01:06:31 PM
Princess Anna was very fond of Vicky according to Wally Paget, and she was full of sympathy when Prince Albert died.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: LenelorMiksi on August 04, 2009, 09:59:29 PM
I'm curious about Philipp and Mafalda's daughter Elisabeth, who was born in 1940.  I believe Mafalda and Philipp agreed to raise their sons as Lutheran and their daughter as Catholic, but as far as I know Elisabeth was mostly raised by her father's side of the family after her parents were taken away, and until her father was released in 1948.  It must have been difficult to raise a child in a different religion, especially when the child is only eight years old.  She married Count Friedrich Carl von Oppersdorf. 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 08, 2010, 06:01:05 AM
Some pictures of Prince Philipp of Hesse-Cassel, the son of Prince Frederick Charles of Hesse and Princess Margaret of Prussia:

(http://i35.tinypic.com/9aw9cg.jpg)

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2l91c2r.jpg)

(http://i36.tinypic.com/9k84s4.jpg)

(http://i43.tinypic.com/mta07d.jpg)

With Hitler:

(http://www.saak.nl/battlefieldtour/2005%20Obersalzberg/kehlsteinhaus/Hitler_with_prince_Philipp1.jpg)

(http://www.saak.nl/battlefieldtour/2005%20Obersalzberg/kehlsteinhaus/Hitler_with_prince_Philipp2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 08, 2010, 12:15:35 PM
Philipp of Hesse's last years were quite sad. The war years were ones the family did not want to recollect with good reason. When the book about Royal Familes and the Reich was about to be written, Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh asked "Why do you (the author) want to talk about the Hesses ?". It would not be written without Prince Rainer of Hesse who want the slate to be wiped clean by a book.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on July 10, 2010, 10:06:09 PM
Can anyone provide me with biographical information about Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (1820-1884)?  I'm researching for a major project, and am having a great deal of difficulty finding anything about his life.  I'm mainly interested in his personality and his marriage to Alexandra Nikolaevna--I know that he was initially a suitor for Olga Nikolaevna, and fell in love with Alexandra instead, but that's about it.  Were there political reasons for his potential match with Olga?  I'd appreciate any help I can get; many thanks in advance!  
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 11, 2010, 12:35:34 PM
There is some information about him in the only English book about his brother-in-law Christian IX of Denmark.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on July 11, 2010, 05:23:14 PM
Eric, what is the title of the book?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on July 11, 2010, 05:51:35 PM
It's Christian IX by Hans Roger Madol.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on July 11, 2010, 06:46:22 PM
Thank you very much, grandduchessella!  Do you remember any of what it says about "Fritz?" 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on July 11, 2010, 07:48:06 PM
It's been a long time since I read the book and I sort of skimmed over that part.  :-[  I remember it does give good detail of his courtship and marriage though. It's an out of print book so I don't know how easy it is or isn't to find--sometimes you can get them really cheaply. I had gotten mine through Interlibrary Loan.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on July 12, 2010, 07:48:43 AM
Can anyone provide me with biographical information about Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (1820-1884)?  I'm researching for a major project, and am having a great deal of difficulty finding anything about his life.  I'm mainly interested in his personality and his marriage to Alexandra Nikolaevna--I know that he was initially a suitor for Olga Nikolaevna, and fell in love with Alexandra instead, but that's about it.  Were there political reasons for his potential match with Olga?  I'd appreciate any help I can get; many thanks in advance!  

Friedrich Wilhelm was heir to the throne of Denmark, but needed backup to secure his heritage. The support of the Russian Emperor, Nicholas I, was seen as vital in this, and Friedrich Wilhelms uncle, King Christian VIII of Denmark arranged for a marriage with one of Nicholas I daughters. Friedrich himself was very reluctant at first, saying he was to young to settle down, but the Russians and the Danes wanted the union, and in Russia he met GDss Alexandra and the rest is known. GDss Alexandra impressed the Danish delegation very much. Because the couples homes in Denmark (Dehn's mansion in the city and Bernstorff Palace outside the city) were still being arranged and later her ilness, the couple was prevented from making the journey to Copenhagen.
Friedrich Wilhelm  had a very bad reputation. He was seen as shallow, bad tempered, and was unpopular in Denmark and among  other royals and family members. Queen Victoria for instance wrote when his second son with Anna of Prussia was born, that the childs blindness was due to his fathers sins!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on July 12, 2010, 07:51:07 AM
Landgrave Friedrich Wilhelm of Hessen-Kassel, heir to two thrones, but ended up with nothing.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Hessen-Kassel/landgrevefredikhesse-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 12, 2010, 09:26:28 AM
Yes...later even his own duchy was annexed.  :(
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on July 12, 2010, 01:04:51 PM
Can anyone provide me with biographical information about Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (1820-1884)?  I'm researching for a major project, and am having a great deal of difficulty finding anything about his life.  I'm mainly interested in his personality and his marriage to Alexandra Nikolaevna--I know that he was initially a suitor for Olga Nikolaevna, and fell in love with Alexandra instead, but that's about it.  Were there political reasons for his potential match with Olga?  I'd appreciate any help I can get; many thanks in advance!  

Friedrich Wilhelm was heir to the throne of Denmark, but needed backup to secure his heritage. The support of the Russian Emperor, Nicholas I, was seen as vital in this, and Friedrich Wilhelms uncle, King Christian VIII of Denmark arranged for a marriage with one of Nicholas I daughters. Friedrich himself was very reluctant at first, saying he was to young to settle down, but the Russians and the Danes wanted the union, and in Russia he met GDss Alexandra and the rest is known. GDss Alexandra impressed the Danish delegation very much. Because the couples homes in Denmark (Dehn's mansion in the city and Bernstorff Palace outside the city) were still being arranged and later her ilness, the couple was prevented from making the journey to Copenhagen.
Friedrich Wilhelm  had a very bad reputation. He was seen as shallow, bad tempered, and was unpopular in Denmark and among  other royals and family members. Queen Victoria for instance wrote when his second son with Anna of Prussia was born, that the childs blindness was due to his fathers sins!

Thank you very, very much for your help, kmerov!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on July 12, 2010, 01:48:45 PM
He and his 2nd wife Anna of Prussia (1836-1918) had six children:

Prince Frederick William II of Hesse (1854–1888); never married; died at sea on a voyage from Batavia to Singapore.
Princess Elisabeth Alexandra Charlotte of Hesse (1861–1955); married Hereditary Prince Leopold Friedrich of Anhalt (son of Frederick I, Duke of Anhalt) and had issue.
Prince Alexander Frederick of Hesse (1863–1945); married Baroness Gisela Stockhorner von Starheim and had issue.
Prince Frederick Charles of Hesse, King of Finland (1868–1940); married Princess Margaret of Prussia and had issue. [Margaret and her family have a thread in the Hohenzollerns]
Princess Marie-Polyxene of Hesse (1872–1882).
Princess Sybille Marguerite of Hesse (1877–1925); married Baron Friedrich von Vincke (divorced 1923).

Emperor Franz Josef had wanted to marry Anna but she was already engaged to Friedrich. FJ's mother wrote to her sister, the Queen of Prussia, that "the happiness that showed itself to him like a fleeting dream and made an impression on his heart -- alas -- much stronger and deeper than I had first thought." She added "whether there is any hope that this sad marriage, which they are imposing on this charming Anna and which leaves her no prospect of happiness whatsoever, could be prevented..." So instead of becoming the Empress of Austria, she became the unhappy wife of Friedrich Wilhelm. In one biography--either Romanov Autumn or the Grand Duchesses--it is written how the marriage was doomed from the start since FW never got over the death of his first wife.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 12, 2010, 05:01:14 PM
No. I think they were quite happy. The only cloud came from the health of the children. I have been to Schloss Fasenerie and even saw the marriage contract. A big document with seals.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on July 12, 2010, 05:16:36 PM
You are very welcome, Dru. I'm glad I could help.

I have read both that Friedrich and Anna had a happy marriage and that it was an unhappy one aswell, so I am not sure about that yet. Bismarck was one of those who pitied Anna for getting married to Friedrich. I don't know about Friedrich not getting over Alexandras death, but back in Denmark he started a long relationship with a ballet dancer, Augusta Nielsen, and their relationship was a big scandal in society. They did part their ways, but Friedrich keept in touch with her, and even provided her with an income until her death. It's considered a true love romance.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on July 12, 2010, 05:25:14 PM
Friedrich and Annas oldest son, also named Friedrich Wilhelm (1854-1888), head of the house of Hesse-Cassel from his fathers death and until he diseappered at sea.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Hessen-Kassel/frederikwilhelmhessekassel-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on July 13, 2010, 09:11:29 AM
You can see the resemblance with his brother, Frederick Charles --only FW is a little fuller of face and hair.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 13, 2010, 09:40:40 AM
Any photos of Anna and her children ? don't see too much of it around.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on July 13, 2010, 05:34:43 PM
Any photos of Anna and her children ? don't see too much of it around.

The only photo I've ever seen of Anna was the one with Friedrich, posted earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on July 13, 2010, 07:19:33 PM
Any photos of Anna and her children ? don't see too much of it around.

The only photo I've ever seen of Anna was the one with Friedrich, posted earlier in this thread.

I did post some pictures of Anna alone aswell, which are in this thread, and some in other threads. At the risk of multi posting, here are a few more pictures.

Landgrave Friedrich Wilhelm (1820-1884)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/augustenborg%20kassel/landgrevefrederik1884.jpg)

Anna
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/augustenborg%20kassel/annapreusssen1918.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on July 13, 2010, 07:27:51 PM
Friedrich Wilhelm (1854-1888)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Hessen-Kassel/fredrikwilhelm2-1.jpg)

Anna
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Hessen-Kassel/annaprussia.jpg)

Friedrich
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Hessen-Kassel/landgrevefrederik2-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on July 13, 2010, 07:29:44 PM
I wonder if these portraits were pendants to the Wintherhalter of Anna?
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Hessen-Kassel/landgravineAnnasalonschlossphi.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Hessen-Kassel/detailAnnaroomschlossPh.jpg)

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on December 10, 2010, 05:50:05 AM
He and his 2nd wife Anna of Prussia (1836-1918) had six children:



Prince Alexander Frederick of Hesse (1863–1945); married Baroness Gisela Stockhorner von Starheim and had issue.


This Prince was blind but seemed had an active life anyway, he married and even travelled around the Europe. In 1901 he was in Russia, visited GD Sergei in Moscow and the Imperial Couple in St-Petersburg. GD Sergei was thrilled and wondered in his diary : why a blind man goes on travelling?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: knave on December 21, 2010, 01:33:01 PM
This one may be a little esoteric, but perhaps someone is expert enough on the Hesse-Kassels in the late 18th/early 19th century for this.

I found the following curious statement about General Julius von Haynau in Wikipedia: that he was "the illegitimate son of the landgrave (later elector) of Hesse-Kassel, William I and Rebecca Richter, a Jewish woman".

All other sources that I know of have von Haynau's mother, William's mistress, as Rosa Ritter, also known as the "Frau of Lindenthal". As far as I could gather, Wikipedia based it's biographical entry on the 1911 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica (an edition old enough to be in the public domain). Later editions seem to have dropped the reference to the Jewish Richter.

Could it be that Rosa Ritter and Rebecca Richter are one and the same? And that the notorious General, who among other things is thought responsible for massacres of Jews in Hungary while putting down the 1848 revolt, was himself of Jewish ancestry?

Does anyone have any idea what information the authors of the 1911 Britannica might have based their geneology on? Or know anything else about the mysterious Rosa Ritter?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 22, 2010, 11:11:13 AM
I wonder if there is any book on Landgrafin Anna, Princess of Prussia ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on December 23, 2010, 02:43:25 PM
I wonder if there is any book on Landgrafin Anna, Princess of Prussia ?

I've certainly never heard of a book on Anna; if you come across one, please let me know. 

By the way, what exactly did her husband do to give him such a bad reputation? 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on December 23, 2010, 11:21:38 PM
I wonder if there is any book on Landgrafin Anna, Princess of Prussia ?

I've certainly never heard of a book on Anna; if you come across one, please let me know. 

By the way, what exactly did her husband do to give him such a bad reputation? 

Fast-living and company of people with bad reputation.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 24, 2010, 02:51:08 PM
Anna herself was quite a serious person, she was very much into music.  ;)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on December 26, 2010, 08:23:02 PM
Does anyone know much about the marriage between Princess Sybille of Hesse and Baron Frierich von Vincke? I was just looking at an article on morganatic marriages and it said a little but then I looked at an old post of mine (just with geneaology info) that had noted they divorced in 1923. I wasn't able to find any info in my initial googling apart from names and dates. Any information on the princess would be appreciated. She seems to have been exceedingly lovely--at least the picture I saw--and had excellent connections and wealth yet I also don't recall seeing her name attached to any royals of her time.

edited--just saw on Marlene's blog that a proposal was offered to her, amongst others, by King Alexander of Serbia
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marc on December 28, 2010, 08:24:43 AM
a proposal was offered to her, amongst others, by King Alexander of Serbia

Well,yes,but not by King Alexander himself,but from his father King Milan in Alexander's name!He was desperate to marry him off to a German Princess,but as I understood,Princess Sybille rejected the idea and Alexander himself was not personally interested!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on December 28, 2010, 02:32:23 PM
I found a newspaper article that said Milan made the proposal and that Sybille's parents would be given 2 years to consider it--I think because of her age. Obviously, nothing more happened.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marc on December 29, 2010, 09:50:49 AM
Milan's hopes for Alexander to marry a German Princess were lost :-) before Sybille strong candidate was Princess Alexandra Karoline zu Schaumburg-Lippe,sister of Queen Charlotte...in the end Sybille made her own way and Alexander lost his life because of his choice of wife!

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on January 03, 2011, 01:42:28 PM
The best version of Princess Anna's Winterhalter portrait that I've been able to find:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5320624643_c0d7dc4e0c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Sara Araújo on January 24, 2011, 06:04:43 AM
Does anyone have pictures or portraits of Princess Marie of Hesse-Cassel, daughter of Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Kassel, and his wife, Princess Caroline of Nassau-Usingen who married Grand Duke George of Mecklenburg-Strelitz? I've been looking for something of her and I haven't been able to find anything.  :-[ Thank you! :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on February 05, 2011, 04:16:05 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5252/5419194273_bf93f7aaf1_z.jpg)

Princess Anna of Prussia in her later years. 

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on February 28, 2011, 04:09:58 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5486532607_b169b4d7f7_b.jpg)

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 01, 2011, 05:15:36 PM
Until I was looking at one of the genealogical sites, I was unaware that Wolfgang had remarried a few years after Marie Alexandra's death. His second wife was Ottilie Moeller who was about 13 years younger than him and who died in 1991. Does anyone have any information of her or them as a couple?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 02, 2011, 02:56:05 PM
Not much on members of that family generally. I cannot find any personal info on Marie Alexandra, only knew who she was (daughter of Max of Baden & Marie Louise of Cumberland), had a brother who married Princess Theodora of Greece and who she married.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: kmerov on August 03, 2011, 04:39:20 PM
Does anyone have pictures or portraits of Princess Marie of Hesse-Cassel, daughter of Landgrave Frederick of Hesse-Kassel, and his wife, Princess Caroline of Nassau-Usingen who married Grand Duke George of Mecklenburg-Strelitz? I've been looking for something of her and I haven't been able to find anything.  :-[ Thank you! :)

From gettyimages
http://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/3296516/Hulton-Archive (http://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/3296516/Hulton-Archive)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on May 01, 2012, 05:17:26 PM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7110/6986978440_3158ced81e.jpg)

Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (1820-1884).  Does anyone have a bigger/better version?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on November 06, 2012, 09:03:47 PM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/8162930681_e33eed0938_z.jpg)

Found as Princess Sybille of Hesse-Kassel, the youngest daughter of Friedrich-Wilhelm and Princess Anna of Prussia.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 08, 2012, 02:01:36 AM
She greatly resembled Anna in profile.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on November 08, 2012, 03:34:51 PM
She greatly resembled Anna in profile.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing--but I wasn't 100 percent certain it was her; thanks for confirming.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 08, 2012, 05:47:15 PM
Indeed. You are welcome. Don't know too much about Sybille's liife.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on November 08, 2012, 06:31:23 PM
Indeed. You are welcome. Don't know too much about Sybille's liife.

There doesn't seem to be much information about Friedrich and Anna's children.  The one I'd like to know more about is Marie-Polyxene, who died when she was only ten, such as, how did she die?  I believe her death, along with the deaths of Friedrich-Wilhem the husband and Friedrich-Wilhelm the eldest son, influenced Anna's converstion to Catholicism.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marc on November 11, 2012, 09:42:44 PM
Indeed. You are welcome. Don't know too much about Sybille's liife.

She was supposed to be wife of King Alexander Obrenovic of Serbia.The ex-King Milan of Serbia and German Emperor Wilhelm II were for it and Wilhelm said that officially the parents of the bride should decide...parents were also for the match,but neither the bride nor the groom were for it...

It seems both later married for love,she married Freiherr von Vincke and Alexander married his former lover Draga!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2012, 11:29:16 PM
Thanks for the information. Did she had children ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 11, 2012, 11:35:17 PM
We had discussed Sibylle & Alexander on the previous page--though the discussion was almost 2 years ago. :) There's a little additonal information on that page.

Yes, Sibylle had 2 children--both sons.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on November 13, 2012, 07:33:38 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8062/8183769537_e62ac73dc3.jpg)

Friedrich and Anna's eldest daughter Elizabeth with her fiance, Leopold of Anhalt.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 25, 2012, 09:57:36 PM
Any info on Elisabeth ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on November 26, 2012, 06:30:53 AM
We had discussed Sibylle & Alexander on the previous page--though the discussion was almost 2 years ago. :) There's a little additonal information on that page.

Yes, Sibylle had 2 children--both sons.

Sybille

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1915iol-1.jpg)

And her 2 sons

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1915iol.jpg)

Courtesy of ANNO database
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on November 28, 2012, 12:46:39 PM
Indeed. You are welcome. Don't know too much about Sybille's liife.

There doesn't seem to be much information about Friedrich and Anna's children.  The one I'd like to know more about is Marie-Polyxene, who died when she was only ten, such as, how did she die?  I believe her death, along with the deaths of Friedrich-Wilhem the husband and Friedrich-Wilhelm the eldest son, influenced Anna's converstion to Catholicism.

Daughters of Friedrich Wilhelm, including Marie Polyxene

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/2908919/princesses-elisabeth-marie-and-sybille-of-hesse-daughters-of-the (http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/2908919/princesses-elisabeth-marie-and-sybille-of-hesse-daughters-of-the)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on November 28, 2012, 03:06:06 PM
What a lovely photograph!  We had discussed Sybille awhile ago, but what do we know about Elisabeth and Marie-Polyxene?  Elisabeth married the Prince of Anhalt, who died fairly young, and they had one child.  Also, her full name was Elisabeth Alexandra Maria Charlotte Louise--presumably, the Alexandra part was a tribute to her father's first wife?  And Marie-Polyxene died only a year after the photo was taken.  I know absolutely nothing about her save for her full name:  Marie Polyxene Olga Viktoria Dagmar Anna; I'm guessing "Olga" was for the Queen of Wurttemberg?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 28, 2012, 05:08:47 PM
Marie Polyxene died of  osteomyelitis. That was about the extent I could find on her.

Olga could've also been for GDss Olga Pavlovna, her great-aunt (sister of her Grandmother Marie Pavlovna). Victoria could've been for either the Queen or for Crown Princess Victoria of Prussia.

Elisabeth's husband, Leopold of Anhalt, originally proposed to her distant cousin Victoria "Moretta" of Prussia in 1883 but was refused by either the Princess or her parents.  Queen Victoria regretted that they had not " got him en réserve for Vicky if her fond hopes cannot be realised" upon his engagement to Elisabeth. Ironically, Elisabeth and Leopold's only child, Antoinette, wound up marrying into the same family as Moretta--the Schaumburg-Lippes. Her husband, Frederick, was the widower of Princess Louise of Denmark, eldest daughter of Frederick VIII & Louise and one of the 'Swan' family. Frederick's own mother was a Princess of Anhalt.

Antoinette's siblings-in-law included Queen Charlotte of Wurttemburg, Albrecht and Max (who married the twins of GDss Vera, Olga and Elsa), Bathildis of Waldeck-Pyrmont and Adelaide of Saxe-Altenburg.

Elisabeth and Leopold. She had a very lovely profile. :)

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/2908971/hereditary-prince-and-princess-of-anhalt-album-photographs-royal
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on November 28, 2012, 10:28:19 PM
but what do we know about Elisabeth and Marie-Polyxene?  Elisabeth married the Prince of Anhalt, who died fairly young, and they had one child. 

Only info on Elisabeth I've ever came across in Russian sources is the description of her wedding by Empress Maria Fedorovna who attended the wedding festivities of Elisabeth and Leopold. The Empress wrote to her husband that the bride was quite happy to leave such a family. MF meant that the family life of her Uncle FW and his 2nd wife Anna was far from idyllic - FW was a fast-liver, and Anna was quite a character.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 29, 2012, 01:36:22 PM
That sounds very interesting. Anna could have been Empress of Austria had she not been engaged to FW.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on November 29, 2012, 04:02:26 PM
Anna sounds like a very interesting person, and I'd love to know more about her.  There is an old German book that focuses on her conversion to the Catholic church, but I have yet to obtain a copy.  According to Hesse: A Princely German Collection (pg 136), "Hers was to be a lonely life.  As the second wife of Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (after the death of Alexandra Nicolaievna in 1844), Anna was never close to her husband.  In 1866 her Prussian family turned against her when Friedrich Wilhelm chose the Austrian side in the Austro-Prussian war.  After her husband's death in 1884, she lived out her lonesome years at the summer castle of Fasanerie (one of the few Hessian castles the victorious Prussians allowed the family to keep), retreating in winters to Frankfurt.  She was an accomplished pianist who looked to artists for friendship, including Brahms, who dedicated a piano quintet to her, and Hans Christian Anderson, who dedicated an edition of his fairy tales to the lonesome landgrafin." 
The same book also states on page 268 that "Brahms said of her that if she weren't born a princess, she could have earned her living as a concert pianist."
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 29, 2012, 04:15:14 PM
Indeed. When I visited Schloss Fasenerie. The archivist told me that she was a close friend of Clara Schumann...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on November 29, 2012, 08:46:53 PM
Just to keep it all straight:

Frederick Wilhelm and Anna
Children:
 
FRIEDRICH WILHELM Nikolaus Karl (Copenhagen 1854-d.at sea en route from Batavia to Singapore 1888)
 
Elisabeth Alexandra Maria Charlotte Luise (Copenhagen 1861-1955); m.1884 Leopold of Anhalt-Dessau (1855-1886)

ALEXANDER FRIEDRICH Wilhelm Albrecht Georg (Copenhagen 1863-1945); m 1925 Gisela  Stockhorner von Starein
 
FRIEDRICH KARL Ludwig Konstantin, Landgrave of Hesse (1868-1940); m.1893 Margarethe  of Prussia (1872-1954)

Marie Polyxene Olga Viktoria Dagmar Anna  (1872- 1882)
 
Sibylle Margaretha Christa Thyra Hedwig Catharina (1877- 1953);  m.1898 (div 1923) Friedrich von Vincke

Grandchildren:

Friedrich Wilhelm Hesse
Maximilian Hesse
Philip Hesse
Christop Hesse
Richard Hesse
Wolfgang Hesse

Antoinette Anhalt

Baron Itel-Jobst von Vinke
Baron Alfram-Dietrich von Vinke
 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Svetabel on November 29, 2012, 11:37:09 PM
Anna sounds like a very interesting person, and I'd love to know more about her.  There is an old German book that focuses on her conversion to the Catholic church, but I have yet to obtain a copy.  According to Hesse: A Princely German Collection (pg 136), "Hers was to be a lonely life.  As the second wife of Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (after the death of Alexandra Nicolaievna in 1844), Anna was never close to her husband.  In 1866 her Prussian family turned against her when Friedrich Wilhelm chose the Austrian side in the Austro-Prussian war.  After her husband's death in 1884, she lived out her lonesome years at the summer castle of Fasanerie (one of the few Hessian castles the victorious Prussians allowed the family to keep), retreating in winters to Frankfurt.  She was an accomplished pianist who looked to artists for friendship, including Brahms, who dedicated a piano quintet to her, and Hans Christian Anderson, who dedicated an edition of his fairy tales to the lonesome landgrafin." 
The same book also states on page 268 that "Brahms said of her that if she weren't born a princess, she could have earned her living as a concert pianist."

That's really interesting, another angle of her life. Her loneliness can be understood, as well as her disagreeable nature -  she was seen as a difficult person by her relatives. Maria Fedorovna didn't like Anna, it's an obvious fact due to the Empress remarks about Landgrafin.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 30, 2012, 12:26:54 AM
I think she deserves a book written about her. I read read from the archives of Schloss Fasenerie that she and her husband was quite friendly with Christian IX and Queen Louise. I saw a photo of the elderly Danish king stopping by and greeted by the couple at their house.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on March 04, 2013, 04:09:42 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8098/8528575117_ea70eb726d_b.jpg)

Friedrich-Wilhelm and Anna's third son, Friedrich-Karl.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 05, 2013, 10:24:44 AM
Yes. That is the one who married Mossy. Love to know more about their story. They just got glossed over by historians & biographers.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Kalafrana on March 05, 2013, 11:24:59 AM
An interesting fact about Friedrich Karl and Margaret is that they produced two sets of twins - all boys. They had two other sons, both of whom were killed in the First world War. One of the younger twins was Christoph of Hesse, who married the duke of edinburgh's sister Sophie and was killed flying in World War 2.

Ann
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 05, 2013, 12:46:48 PM
Thanks Ann,

These are facts not biographical information. For example did she get along with her daughters-in-law (Malfelda, Sophie & Alexandra) ? Did Frederick & Mossy ever visited Irene & Heinrich at Hemmelmark ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on March 05, 2013, 04:00:30 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8532679084_7e94bbf096_b.jpg)

Here is a sketch of Friedrich-Karl and "Mossy."  As you can see, the sketch of him is based on the photograph I posted earlier.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 05, 2013, 08:08:02 PM
Indeed. I suppose the sketch of Mossy is also based on a photo.  :)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Kalafrana on March 06, 2013, 04:28:32 AM
'These are facts not biographical information. For example did she get along with her daughters-in-law (Malfelda, Sophie & Alexandra) ? Did Frederick & Mossy ever visited Irene & Heinrich at Hemmelmark?'

Eric

Surely facts are part of biographical information? To my mind the fact that this couple produced two sets of twins long before infertility treatment is interesting. In those days of high infant mortality, it is also interesting that all their six sons lived to adulthood. We can also safely say that it must have been a terrible thing to lose two sons in one war and a third in a second war (Friedrich Karl was dead by the time Christoph was killed, but Margaret was still around).

Does anyone know whether either set of twins was identical?

Ann
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 06, 2013, 08:26:51 AM
Ann,

These kind of information is more trivia than biographical. I think by look at the pictures of the family you can get the answer.

Eric
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 06, 2013, 10:41:14 AM
Yes. That is the one who married Mossy. Love to know more about their story. They just got glossed over by historians & biographers.

A good deal is told through the letters of her mother, Empress Friedrich, to Margaret's sister Sophie. Those were published decades ago, edited by Arthur Gould-Lee. The book is fascinating.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 06, 2013, 10:42:38 AM


Does anyone know whether either set of twins was identical?

Ann


I don't think that either set was looking at the pictures. There are very strong resemblances though. I think they were both fraternal sets.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Kalafrana on March 06, 2013, 11:06:03 AM
'These kind of information is more trivia than biographical.'

I have to disagree with your definition of trivia.

Ann
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 06, 2013, 12:09:14 PM
As Princess Michael of Kent once said. "I feel cheated in biographies that does not talk about a person's likes and dislikes like his favorite dress or food..." I tend to agree with her.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 06, 2013, 02:55:39 PM
Isn't a person's favorite food and whatnot the very definition of 'trivia'?

I do agree that small details help to flesh out a biography, which is why I love Pope-Hennessey's bio on Queen Mary so much. He didn't list her favorite foods but there was such a color and flavor to the book rather than a dry recitation of facts. Is that what you're getting at?

As I said, check out Gould-Lee's Empress Frederick Writes to Sophie. For now, at least, that's as much information as has been put out about young Margaret's early loves, engagement and eventual marriage.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 06, 2013, 07:31:55 PM
Yes. James Pope Hennessy's book on Queen Mary is par excellence. Especially the correspondence between May & Aunt Augusta. I read Charlotte Zeepvat had been working over those for awhile.

I agree"Empress Fredrick Writes to Sophie" shed side light on Mossy. I would like to see "Mossy writes to Sophie" or "Empress Frederick writes to Margaret". That would be a more biographical subject.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 07, 2013, 01:48:11 PM
Some of the "trivia" information may also fall into the category of supposition depending on how it is validated and sourced. I find anecdotal information suspicious since many of the original sources are "edited". Ha. Editing can easily slip from well intended, enhanced communication to altered tone, essences, and factual information.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 07, 2013, 04:16:49 PM
Well...It all goes back to the Princess Catherine Radziwill school of royal writing.... ;)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Kalafrana on March 08, 2013, 04:02:12 AM
I too enjoy small details which shed interesting lights on a person, particularly when they are unexpected. For instance, the rip-roaring New Zealand war hero, General Sir Bernard Freyberg VC (and just about everything else), was a devotee of Jane Austen. Some of the details about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor's dinner parties in Greg King's book demonstrate (to me at any rate) what a thoroughly unpleasant pair they were. But writers harping on endlessly about the subject's clothes bore me rigid, so that the book is in grave danger of being thrown out of the window.

Ann
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2013, 01:21:50 AM
Yes. Especially people are not one dimensional but with many different facets. I was surprised to hear the the popular Queen Mother was not so popular with the Queen's staff. She was a doting grandmother to Charles and wonderful to William, but she could be nasty, selfish and inconsiderate at times with others. 
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 10, 2013, 02:54:04 PM
Yes. Especially people are not one dimensional but with many different facets. I was surprised to hear the the popular Queen Mother was not so popular with the Queen's staff. She was a doting grandmother to Charles and wonderful to William, but she could be nasty, selfish and inconsiderate at times with others.  

hence, some of Wallis' attitudes about her.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on March 10, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8098/8545540649_414361c715_b.jpg)

Wedding of Philipp of Hesse-Kassel (grandson of Friedrich-Wilhelm and Anna) and Mafalda of Savoy.  Mafalda wears the "sheaves of wheat" tiara--the diamonds came from a gown in the trousseau of Alexandra Nikolaevna, Friedrich-Wilhelm's first wife; Anna had it made into the tiara shortly before her death, and that tiara is now the traditional wedding tiara of the House of Hesse.  Download for full size.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2013, 06:19:48 PM
I have seen Anna wearing a nice tiara. In a book on the stolen Hesse jewels. There is a photo of Alexandra Baden (sister-in-law of Sophie & Melfelda) wearing a lovely diamond tiara. Haven't seen that photo produced anywhere else. Think her portion of the jewels were stolen too with those of Sophie & Mossy.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on March 23, 2013, 04:27:51 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8228/8583045185_0955d4db31_b.jpg)

Friedrich-Karl and 'Mossy' with four of their children, courtesy of TheMauveRoom.  Download for full size.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 23, 2013, 04:56:11 PM
Two sets of Twins.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 23, 2013, 08:14:55 PM
Isn't this the first four children? The 2nd set of twins weren't born yet.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on March 23, 2013, 10:40:18 PM
Isn't this the first four children? The 2nd set of twins weren't born yet.

Yes, I believe so.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 24, 2013, 01:59:56 PM
They do dressed alike is sets...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 23, 2013, 04:23:52 PM
Elisabeth of Hesse Kassel, wife of Prince Otto of Hesse, youngest son of the late Philipp and Mafalda, passed away a few days ago. Elisabeth & Otto married on December 28, 1988 and Otto died in 1998.  Elisabeth was born Elisabeth Bönker in 1944 at Rumburg, Czechoslovakia. She was Otto's 2nd wife and they had no children.

I saw one site saying they divorced in 1994 but Otto's siblings Moritz and Elisabeth are listed on the funeral card as the chief mourners with the service at Schloss Friedrichshof which would seem strange in that case.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 23, 2013, 05:46:37 PM
Thanks for the info. Not much was known about her.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 23, 2013, 08:39:50 PM
Now I've seen in multiple sources that they were divorced but Marlene doesn't mention it on her blog and there's still the case of the family involvement in the funeral.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 24, 2013, 10:52:37 AM
I think there is a lack of information in the more obsure members of the Princely Families. For example not much was known about Princess Alexandra of Baden (daughter of Max & Alexandra of Cumberland) who married a prince of Hesse. Even in the book on the family about the relationship of the Hesse-Kassel family and the third Reich, the author focused mostly on Malfelda of Italy (Princess Philipp of Hesse) & Sophie of Greece (Princess Christoph of Hesse). Not much was on Alexandra, who also died in a concentration camp. I think there needs to be a more comprehensive study on the family as a whole. Even Marlene's excellent work does have limitations on certain subjects as you justly put here.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marie Valerie on April 29, 2013, 12:59:02 PM
I thought Marie Alexandra of Hessen, nee of Baden, died in an allied terror-bombig raid on the 29. January 1944 in Frankfurt am Main?
She worked there as a nurse. Never heard of her beeing in a c camp...

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 29, 2013, 01:39:41 PM
That was my understanding as well--the air raid rather than a concentration camp.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 30, 2013, 09:51:10 AM
I think so. Since Maldefda also died in an air raid at the concentration camp. They lump both together. Both princesses died in air raids.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 30, 2013, 11:49:41 AM
Marie Alexandra died while on nursing duty in Frankfurt. During an air raid, she and some other nurses took shelter in a cellar. The building sustained damage, couldn't support the weight of the debris and collapsed on them. MA was almost unrecognizable.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 30, 2013, 08:17:51 PM
All the former royal privilege didn't spare them and other civilians from collateral damage and the fury of carpet bombings. Can't imagine the horror of barely making it through a bombing raid only to have the structure come down on everyone.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 01, 2013, 03:01:19 AM
Sad. She should have stayed home with her mother-in-law Mossy, who with her other daughter-in-law Sophie (of Greece) did survive the war. Marie Alexandra's jewels were also stolen in the famous jewelry heist on Schloss Friedrichoff.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on May 01, 2013, 10:16:22 AM
Well, Marie Alexandra loved her nursing duties and wanted to be pro-active. That was her choice. She died making a difference at least. She didn't have to worry about multiple pregnancies and young children like Sophie and Mossy was already elderly.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 02, 2013, 08:33:36 AM
Yes. Marie Alexandra did not have a child. Maybe she was in capable of having one, that could be the moving force of her hospital work since her in-laws usually started a family soon after they were wedded.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on May 19, 2013, 04:53:30 PM
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3807/8755615774_2913d46ba4_b.jpg)

Coin medallion featuring Prince Friedrich-Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel and Princess Anna of Prussia.  It was issued at the time of their marriage.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 20, 2013, 01:29:46 AM
I wonder if one was struck for his first marriage ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on May 20, 2013, 12:27:22 PM
I wonder if one was struck for his first marriage ?

If one was, I would very much like to see it.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 20, 2013, 02:43:47 PM
There should be. It is not everyday that a prince of Hesse-Cassel marries a daughter of the Russian Tsar.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on May 24, 2013, 03:48:12 PM
HRH Moritz of Hesse, the head of the princely family and adopted son of Prince Louis and Princess Margaret has died at the age of 86.

http://www.op-online.de/lokales/nachrichten/langen/moritz-landgraf-hessen-gestorben-2922566.html
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 26, 2013, 09:57:41 AM
End of an era.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on June 03, 2013, 02:51:21 PM
Some info about the funeral:

http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-funeral-of-landgrave-moritz-of-hesse.html
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 03, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
Princess Margaret of Prussia, Landegravine of Hesse-Cassel, in 1946:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/5c376ff3b8b7ccd1.html
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eurohistory on June 03, 2013, 04:39:10 PM
Landgraf Moritz was a very nice man who enjoyed our work as historians and genealogists!

http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-funeral-of-landgraf-moritz-of.html (http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-funeral-of-landgraf-moritz-of.html)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 03, 2013, 05:27:52 PM
He lived through a period of great change in the princely families. The next generation will not have the kind of tight knit relationship that was before.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eurohistory on June 05, 2013, 07:08:18 PM
More photos from the Hesse funeral...

http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-more-photos-of-royals-at-landgraf.html (http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-more-photos-of-royals-at-landgraf.html)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Vecchiolarry on June 05, 2013, 11:29:06 PM
Hi,

Thank you Arturo for these indepth reportings and photographs of the Hesse Cassel funeral.
As always you do as great job in explaining the variously related family members.

Sad to see King Constantine with a cane;  good to see his sister, Queen Sofia.

I'm glad to hear that Furst Moritz enjoyed Ilana's book - she will be happy about that...

Larry
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 06, 2013, 01:28:12 PM
Ilana did a good job on that book. Too bad it is not about his family. Prince Moritz wasn't happy about the book on his family...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 06, 2013, 04:17:05 PM
More photos from the Hesse funeral...

http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-more-photos-of-royals-at-landgraf.html (http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-more-photos-of-royals-at-landgraf.html)

Hi!!

Thanks so much for the images !

Now that i saw current images of Pss Elisabeth, does anybody knows what this italian lady pretends saying she s the countess of Oppersdorf?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54839144@N03/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54839144@N03/8207877035/
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marc on June 06, 2013, 10:48:14 PM
More photos from the Hesse funeral...

http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-more-photos-of-royals-at-landgraf.html (http://erhj.blogspot.com/2013/06/hesse-more-photos-of-royals-at-landgraf.html)

Hi!!

Thanks so much for the images !

Now that i saw current images of Pss Elisabeth, does anybody knows what this italian lady pretends saying she s the countess of Oppersdorf?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54839144@N03/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54839144@N03/8207877035/

I only know that the portrait is of Princess Elizabeth of Yugoslavia,painted by Prince Heinrich von Hessen in 1959,often mistaken as a portrait of Princess Elisabeth von Hessen(Kassel),sister of Heinrich.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 07, 2013, 08:18:53 AM
Thanks for the info, i found it wonderful!!

My question goes for this italian lady who says she s Pss Elisabeth of Hesse Kassel and there are even comparisons about her and Queen Elena of Italy...her """grandmother"""

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 08, 2013, 01:58:40 AM
Were they really so alike ?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 08, 2013, 05:11:20 PM
Not at all. This italian lady looks more like Rupprecht of Bavaria and Antonia of Luxembourg children.

See Arturo s link, there is an actual image of the real Elisabeth and in the link i posted, there are an image of the fake Pss with the same age of the real countess of Oppersdorf.

In case you dont want to look up for that image, here is it and its labeled

"Elisabetta d'Assia in eta' matura,in veste di caposala ospedaliera"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54839144@N03/5512228388/
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 09, 2013, 05:56:32 PM
You are right...They do not look alike...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on June 21, 2013, 05:49:36 PM
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/9102275745_604d8e6829_o.jpg)

Prince Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel with his first wife, Grand Duchess Alexandra Nikolaevna of Russia.  Download for full size.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 21, 2013, 10:53:05 PM
Alexandra of Glucksborg was named after her...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on June 30, 2013, 04:31:43 PM
From the Royal Collection

(http://f3.s.qip.ru/uFoPLKWD.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 01, 2013, 10:16:29 AM
She looked beautiful in that dress. I read the Empress Frederick helped arranged her dress and trousseau.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: ashdean on July 06, 2013, 12:42:11 PM
She looked beautiful in that dress. I read the Empress Frederick helped arranged her dress and trousseau.
Isn't that something a mother always does
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 07, 2013, 03:10:55 AM
Not all the time. Alexandra of Denmark's dress was given by her mother-in-law, Queen Victoria who insisted on Honiton lace than the Brussels lace king Leopold I wanted to give.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: ashdean on July 07, 2013, 06:36:58 AM
You did not only say dress...you said dress and trousseau
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on July 07, 2013, 11:45:42 AM
Obviously Empress Frederick, who was an implacable enemy of the 'fringe', wasn't able to exert enough influence to talk her out of that on her wedding day. :) I think it really made poor Margaret look rather frumpy on her wedding day. The dress was a beautiful, if overdone by today's standards, Victorian concoction but her hair looks rather blowsy.

Yes, mothers traditionally helped with the dress (they probably had more influence then than today) and definitely with the trousseau since it would contain 'grownup' outfits and unmentionables. In the case of Princess Alexandra, her mother would've had sway if not for the fact that she was marrying the heir to the British throne and Queen Victoria's wishes (as per usual!) took precedence over  a mere 'Princess mother'.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: CountessKate on July 08, 2013, 06:07:57 AM
Obviously Empress Frederick, who was an implacable enemy of the 'fringe', wasn't able to exert enough influence to talk her out of that on her wedding day. :) I think it really made poor Margaret look rather frumpy on her wedding day. The dress was a beautiful, if overdone by today's standards, Victorian concoction but her hair looks rather blowsy.

Yes, mothers traditionally helped with the dress (they probably had more influence then than today) and definitely with the trousseau since it would contain 'grownup' outfits and unmentionables. In the case of Princess Alexandra, her mother would've had sway if not for the fact that she was marrying the heir to the British throne and Queen Victoria's wishes (as per usual!) took precedence over  a mere 'Princess mother'.

The Empress Frederick had a down on fashionable fringes, but there seems little else which was worn at that period and Mossy would have felt horribly underdressed if her hair had not met the basic fashionable standards of the time.  But I would agree the whole effect, hair and dress, is heavy and far too elaborate.  I've never been certain of the Empress Frederick's taste - she never looked terribly well turned out in my view, all her clothes looked rather too heavy and elaborate as well, and I wonder if she held sway over the dress design.

With regard to Alexandra's trousseau, I think the charge of interference is a little unfair to Queen Victoria.  The lace dress King Leopold gave was a wedding present, and although he intended it to be worn by the bride, there is no indication that it had been specially requested by the Danish royal family nor that it was actually rejected - presumably it was available for other uses than bridal.  The majority of Princess Alexandra's trousseau was made in Denmark and there is no evidence that Queen Victoria had a say in it of any kind (or showed any inclination to do so).  The replacement of a Brussels by Honiton lace dress was essentially political - a bride this important to Britain should be wearing completely British manufacture.  Princess Alexandra and her mother understood their duty in relation to her future position as the Princess of Wales and basically accepted a substitution, they weren't ridden roughshod over an entire trousseau.

Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on July 08, 2013, 10:30:18 AM
Margaret's mother wished she would adopt the 'smoothed off the brow' style of Victoria Melita and, for the most part, Grand Duchess Elizabeth. I must agree--I think that style was much for flattering on pretty much everyone. Plus, combined with the lovely floral hair arrangement would've been appropriate for the wedding.  It also suited tiara wearing very well.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 14, 2013, 12:45:27 PM
I wonder if Alexandra kept the Brussels lace for another dress ?

Indeed the dress is usually part of the trousseau.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marc on August 28, 2013, 03:38:56 AM
Late Landgraf Moritz with his grandmother:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/MoritzHess_zps83e40b27.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/MoritzHess_zps83e40b27.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 28, 2013, 01:01:49 PM
Great photo, Marc! It's very hard to come across photos of Margaret post-WW1. She is looking very tenderly at this grandchild. :)  While she and her husband were personally fond of Moritz's mother Mafalda, they weren't keen on the idea of a Catholic wedding. They didn't attend the wedding of Moritz's parents. As a side note, she was named Margaret supposedly after that great friend of her parents, Queen Margherita of Italy--the grandmother of Moritz's mother. I think the 2 families having a common descendant would've made Vicky and Fritz very pleased.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 28, 2013, 01:24:50 PM
LIFE archives have a few like this one, taken in 1946

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/5c376ff3b8b7ccd1.html
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marc on August 28, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
As a side note, she was named Margaret supposedly after that great friend of her parents, Queen Margherita of Italy--the grandmother of Moritz's mother. I think the 2 families having a common descendant would've made Vicky and Fritz very pleased.

I think that I have read in Queen Elena's biography that Margaret was named after Queen Margherita,who was also a godmother of Margaret and that's why she was very happy to see her granddaughter married to her goddaughter's son,especially after so much trouble about Yolanda's marriage...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 28, 2013, 08:12:06 PM
LIFE archives have a few like this one, taken in 1946

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/5c376ff3b8b7ccd1.html

Yes, there was a brief flurry of publicity around the Hesse jewel theft but the period in the 1920s and 1930s is really rare. Mafalda's wedding to Phillip garnered a lot of press--more than the marriages of her other children--so I wish the couple had been there.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 28, 2013, 11:39:15 PM
It was an international wedding of a ruling monarch that is why.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Kalafrana on August 29, 2013, 03:44:14 AM
Philip wasn't a reigning monarch at the time of the wedding. His father was still alive, and had in any case abdicated in 1918. Perhaps it was that Mafalda was the daughter of a reigning monarch.

Ann
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 29, 2013, 08:46:48 AM
I believe that's what Eric meant--it should've been the marriage involving a reigning house. And, yes, that's I know that's why it garnered more press attention. :)  It's because of that fact that I wish that Margaret and Friedrich Charles would've attended. It would've been ripe for photos of them. I have postcards from Wolfgang's marriage and Christopher's marriage but I have whole magazines dealing with Phillip's to Mafalda. There was some coverage of the other weddings in German magazines but the Italian marriage was covered worldwide.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 29, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
Did Margaret and Philip not attend in mild-protest of the Catholic wedding?
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 29, 2013, 12:56:40 PM
Thanks grandduchessella. That is obvious as the daughter of a king, Mafalda would be press worthy. It is like comparing the wedding of Infanta Elena of Spain with that of Hubertus of Coburg.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 29, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
Yes, that was my whole point. That it would've been a prime photo opportunity for photos of Margaret during this period of time where they are hard to come by. Her other children's wedding received coverage but it was local and postcards not as numerous. Even in the German papers, which still did coverage the deposed royalty to varying extents, Margaret is hard to find--though she was rather even during the years of the monarchy. She just led a quieter life than many others.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 29, 2013, 11:18:43 PM
Indeed...I do wonder if Margaret's letters to her sisters (Moretta & Sophie) survive ? In "Born to Rule" Margaret & Sophie's letters to a Ms Crochrane (I got one of those in my collection from Sophie) and a religious man (maybe Dean of Windsor). Those are in Oxford University. But those to each other I am not sure...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 30, 2013, 11:52:57 AM
I don't know. If it's Miss and not Mrs Cochrane then it is probably Minnie Cochrane who was a friend of Alix Hesse's in her youth. She was also lady-in-waiting to Princess Beatrice--even before Beatrice was married. She was very close to many members of the extended Royal Family.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 02, 2013, 02:02:34 PM
Yes. You got it. It was Minnie Cochrane.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on October 28, 2013, 08:44:43 PM
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2880/10547405676_cb01f6b53a_o.png)

The Winterhalter portrait of Princess Anna, biggest I've ever seen it.  Download for full size.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Marc on October 29, 2013, 06:18:50 AM
The portrait is breathtaking...I have seen it in person two months ago in Schloss Fasanerie,which is btw,amazing...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 29, 2013, 10:57:13 AM
Captured Anna's sad beauty perfectly. It is why Franz Josef fell for her...
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on March 14, 2014, 08:20:52 PM
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3780/13157910474_f8eaba1cb0_o.jpg)

Prince Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel...

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7215/13157083693_d36126d19d_o.jpg)

...and his second wife, Princess Anna of Prussia, courtesy of the Royal Collection.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2014, 11:30:45 PM
Landgravine Anna was friends with Clara Schumann.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on June 13, 2014, 05:58:18 PM
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2922/14435706143_affd0154a5_o.jpg)

Eldest son of Friedrich-Wilhelm and Anna of Hesse-Kassel, Prince Friedrich Wilhelm Nicholas Karl.  Courtesy of the Royal Collection.


Does anyone have a larger, clearer copy of this photo of Friedrich-Wilhelm and Anna?

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3869/14228911249_fc1ec180ea_o.jpg)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on July 04, 2014, 06:26:23 PM
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/14571169474_6a47f833cb_o.jpg)

Leopold of Anhalt and Elisabeth of Hesse-Kassel.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on October 03, 2014, 11:49:05 PM
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15410971096_b53831b607_o.jpg)

Princess Elisabeth of Hesse-Kassel, eldest daughter of Friedrich Wilhelm and Anna.
Title: Friedrich and Margarethe von Hessen-Kassel of Finland
Post by: Anna Francisevna on October 09, 2014, 06:08:44 PM
For some reason, I am very intereted in this couple, but I cannot seem to find any information their turning down the throne of Finland wikipedia pages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Frederick_Charles_of_Hesse and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Margaret_of_Prussia).  Although An Uncommon Woman  the Empress Frederick Daughter of Queen Victoria, Wife of the Crown Prince of Prussia, Mother of Kaiser Wilhelm by Hannah Pakula is about the English empress of Germany Victoria and her children, it just mentions her daughter's marriage to Friedrich, not so much about the throne of Finland.  What did the Finnish people think about this?  Does anybody have any information about this?  According to the wikipedia page, Friedrich was elected to be the king of Finland but turned away when Germany lost WWI. 
Title: Re: Friedrich and Margarethe von Hessen-Kassel of Finland
Post by: Превед on October 10, 2014, 07:14:28 AM
For some reason, I am very intereted in this couple, but I cannot seem to find any information their turning down the throne of Finland

See http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomen_kuningaskuntahanke (http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomen_kuningaskuntahanke). Learn Finnish - or use Google Translate :-)
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Kalafrana on October 10, 2014, 09:18:27 AM
It is not really surprising about the Finnish throne in biographies of the Empress Frederick, since she was long dead by then.

You might find something in books about Mannerheim.

Ann
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on August 20, 2016, 09:05:35 PM
http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/147165128305 (http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/147165128305)

Prince Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel.
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on August 20, 2016, 09:09:01 PM
http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/106532396625 (http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/106532396625)

The Winterhalter portrait of Anna, at long last in good size and quality!
Title: Re: The Hesse-Cassel family
Post by: Dru on February 01, 2018, 06:43:26 PM
http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/170398492965 (http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/170398492965)

Anna.