Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: Svetabel on March 16, 2011, 08:31:17 AM

Title: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on March 16, 2011, 08:31:17 AM
Part 2.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on March 17, 2011, 07:36:05 AM
Wilhelm in 1914:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_Wilhelm1914.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=Wilhelm1914.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 17, 2011, 08:09:54 AM
composite of Wilhelm and Augusta Viktoria

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4233/126653.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/126653.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on March 19, 2011, 04:40:05 AM
Wilhelm with his family 1914:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_kaiserandfamily1914.png) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=kaiserandfamily1914.png)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on March 21, 2011, 06:31:51 AM
Found on ebay, click on the pictures to enlarge:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_binz_0027.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=binz_0027.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_binz_0014.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=binz_0014.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_binz_0012.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=binz_0012.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_binz_0009.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=binz_0009.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 24, 2011, 11:01:08 AM
(http://i53.tinypic.com/30mpfup.jpg)

i love this one
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on March 27, 2011, 04:29:38 AM
Click to enlarge:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_0419fa7b908b.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=0419fa7b908b.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 27, 2011, 09:14:25 AM
Wilhelm in civilian clothes

(http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/8452/portraitwilhelmiifotogr.jpg) (http://img852.imageshack.us/i/portraitwilhelmiifotogr.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on March 28, 2011, 04:31:11 AM
Found on eBay, click on the pictures to enlarge:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_wfop.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=wfop.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_xrjk.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=xrjk.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_plwdk.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=plwdk.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_1911.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=1911.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 28, 2011, 07:36:25 AM
Wilhelm and Otto von Bismarck

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2279/kaiserwilhelmiibeibisma.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/i/kaiserwilhelmiibeibisma.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 31, 2011, 02:30:31 PM
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2421/sdegawer.jpg) (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/sdegawer.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on April 02, 2011, 04:00:55 AM
Click to enlarge:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_kaiserwilhelm.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=kaiserwilhelm.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on April 06, 2011, 06:46:24 AM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/0_33935_bbb6e675_L.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on April 25, 2011, 02:25:14 PM
Wilhelm II:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_Pic001.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=Pic001.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_Pic002.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=Pic002.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/th_Pic003.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/?action=view&current=Pic003.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 26, 2011, 04:57:59 AM
Msge 2

I'm busy trying to work out who everybody is.

Sitting in the front row on the left are Eitel Friedrich and, I think, August Wilhelm, with one or other of their wives between them. One the extreme right are Victoria Louise and Ernst August, and the nautical gentleman near the back is Heinrich. But what of the others?

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 26, 2011, 07:18:53 AM
Lets see
(from left to right)

First row :unknown gent in hussar uniform, Prinz Waldemar , Prinz Heinrich, unknown gent

second row : Bernard II of saxe- meiningen, Pss Irene, Pss  Charlotte, Prinz Adalbert, Pss Margareth (Mossy), Pss Victoria (moretta), Pss Alexandra of Schleswig- Holstein (August Wilhelm wife), Pss Sophie Charlotte of Oldenburg ( Eitel Friedrich wife), Pss Viktoria Luise, Ernt August Hannover.

Third Row : Prinz Eitel Friedrich, Pss Cecilie, Prinz August Wilhelm , Prinz Oskar,Prinz  Joachim
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 26, 2011, 08:20:12 AM
Many thanks, but no Crown Prince?
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 26, 2011, 08:56:23 AM
I also noticed that. Where was Wilhelm?
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 26, 2011, 09:26:21 AM
Wilhelm the Kaiser of course is standing in the back with Dona.

Wilhelm the CP is missing. Interesting how Eitel has placed his arm in Cecelie's the way a woman who normally do with a man's arm. Irene is looking her usual annoyed-bored; she's even sitting quite sloppily. Dona has a pleasant smile.

The photo looks to have been taken on the steps of the Neues Palais in Potsdam. I suspect this date was prior to August.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 26, 2011, 09:56:34 AM
I think it was certainly taken before 1914, as the men are wearing blue rather than field grey. Some are wearing white trousers, however, so I would suggest May-July.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 27, 2011, 06:46:17 AM
A dashing image of the kaiser

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8711/wh0194.jpg) (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/wh0194.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 27, 2011, 05:55:36 PM
I think it was certainly taken before 1914, as the men are wearing blue rather than field grey. Some are wearing white trousers, however, so I would suggest May-July.

Hard to say. The tag says 1914 and everyone looks about right for that time. WWI was basically unexpected so the attire would not have been unusual in June/July 1914. I wonder why it seems all the women are in the same shade of dark.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 28, 2011, 03:28:37 AM
I meant to say August 1914.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: voyageroffreedom on May 04, 2011, 12:38:26 PM
Wilhelm:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n600/v0yag3r/Wilhelm%20II/Pic004.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 09, 2011, 09:26:08 AM
Wilhelm and entourage in roccoco´s costume

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9012/foto0004l.jpg) (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/foto0004l.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 09, 2011, 09:32:23 AM
Handtinted image of a teen Wilhelm

(http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/5577/kgrhqri4e3rukt0h9bn79hr.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/810/kgrhqri4e3rukt0h9bn79hr.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 23, 2011, 06:17:25 AM
Kaiser Wilhelm in turkish army uniform

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8642/turkishofficeruniform.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/turkishofficeruniform.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Duchess of Diego on September 23, 2011, 10:16:45 AM
Wow! You can really see how shrunken his arm is in that photo  :o
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Rodney_G. on February 17, 2012, 02:13:45 PM
  According to my family history, my paternal grandfather Paul, whom I barely knew, when he was a boy  about five to seven years old, saw Wilhelm, then Crown Prince, on parade at Spandau, with senior German army officers. Wilhelm would have been in his early twenties. Grandfather definitely noticed the withered left arm, though he otherwise didn't elaborate.
Title: Huis Doorn might be facing closure
Post by: dagmar1927 on January 09, 2013, 03:10:29 PM
I saw this article in the Independent the other day and thought everyone on this forum should be aware of it. From what I've learnt over the past few days, Huis Doorn (the Kaiser's house in the Netherlands where he lived from 1922-1941) hasn't actually shut yet, but is only opening for limited hours until 1st May, when the money donated to keep it open runs out. There isn't a lot of information in English, so if someone here can find out a little more by reading everything in Dutch, that would be useful (as Google translate isn't the most reliable of tools!)

As an avid Kaiser fan, I find this really quite sad, so I'm spending most of my student loan on a visit to Doorn at the end of January.

I just wanted to put this on the forum, as it really shocked me and, while I understand the need for austerity at the moment, I think it's dreadful how so much history is being shut off from the public because of monetary issues.

Here's the link to the article - you'll probably have to copy and paste it, as I'm very inexperienced with posting links, and generally hopeless with technology...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/end-of-the-line-for-germanys-last-emperor-8326444.html

 
Title: Re: Huis Doorn might be facing closure
Post by: grandduchessella on January 09, 2013, 08:10:23 PM
The article notes that the closure would happen on 1 Jan 13. Since that date has passed, it would seem something must've changed? Minister of Culture Jet Bussemaker suggested in a debate  that Huis Doorn might be eligible for subsidy for projects on the First World War.

"If the plans of the Netherlands' recently elected coalition government are implemented, House Doorn will close its doors to the public on 1 January 2013. The country's cultural advisory body, which oversees the manor house and its 15-acre estate, has decreed that it "is not Dutch enough" to warrant its ¤441,000 (£354,000) in annual funding. As part of its austerity budget, the Dutch will cut that down to ¤216, 000, a measure that will force the closure of the house as a museum. "We will not be able to keep the house open to the public. Within a matter of years, the place will be forgotten and I fear that this will be used as a pretext to get rid of the vast collection of photographs and thousands of priceless royal artefacts," Mr Goossens said ."

The official website notes nothing of any potential closing--it lists its operating hours as normal.

The vote took place in late December and Huis Doorn, and another museum, didn't get good news. A proposition of three parties to create an additional budget for them too failed to obtain a majority. Huis Doorn plans to start a juridical procedure against the cuts. Also, the German Stiftung Preussischer Schlosser und Garten has indicated that they are quite willing to start talks with Huis Doorn on how they can help to keep the museum open.

On a side note, in December, over twenty silver objects, mostly cups, have been stolen from Museum Huis Doorn. Burglars gained access to the museum Sunday night, taking the items which represent a great cultural and historical value.
Title: Re: Huis Doorn might be facing closure
Post by: grandduchessella on January 09, 2013, 08:15:47 PM
Actually, their official webpage does say something--but not under the English tab, only the German and Dutch.

"Vorstand, Direktion, Mitarbeiter und Ehrenamtliche von Museum Huis Doorn sind enttäuscht und empört über die Kürzung der Subvention die der Staatssekretär Zijlstra angekündigt hat. Statt € 441.000.- pro Jahr empfängt das aussergewöhnliche Museum in Zukunft nur noch € 216.953.-. Dieses Reichsmuseum verliert dann die Existenz. Viele Jahre von wichtiger Arbeit wird vernichtet.
Die Kürzung wurde am 21. Mai bekannt, der historische Wert von Haus und Sammlung werden nicht berücksichtigt. Die Sammlung muss zwar verwaltet werden und behalten bleiben aber hinter verschlossenen Türen. Es ist unverständlich dass dieses Gutachten, trotz aller Reaktionen aus der ganzen Welt vom Kabinett das demissioniert hat, akzeptiert wird. Die festliche Eröffnung des Parlamentsjahres am 18.September d.J. war für das Reichsmuseum Huis Doorn ein trauriger Tag.
Das Kabinett will dass Huis Doorn die Türen schliesst. Die Subvention ist ausschliesslich für Verwaltung und Erhaltung der Sammung und nicht mehr abgestimmt auf das Publikum um das Museum zu besuchen.
Huis Doorn will das Äußerste tun um für das Publikum zugänglich zu bleiben. Mitglieder des Parlaments erhalten Information über die Abwicklung vom Etat des Kultusministeriums. Diese Information macht deutlich dass die Sparmassnahmen kaum etwas bringen aber in historischer Hinsicht Verlust bedeuten. Huis Doorn wird gegen die Kürzung der Subvention Berufung einlegen. Im Jahre 2014 wird in ganz Europa dem Ausbruch des Ersten Weltkrieges Beachtung geschenkt. Huis Doorn ist in diesem Zusammenhang eine der wichtigsten historischen Stellen in Europa. Es kann doch nicht wahr sein,dass das Publikum Huis Doorn nicht mehr besuchen kann.
Es wurde einen Subventionsantrag eingereicht und Huis Doorn wird alle Möglichkeiten untersuchen um das Museum dennoch offen zu halten."

I ran it through Google translate and it's basically that the staff is very angered by the decision on the cuts and they will keep fighting. Someone who actually speaks German can provide a true translation. You wouldn't know anything from the information in English. There's quite a bit if you look under the Dutch or German. Odd.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: dagmar1927 on January 11, 2013, 03:58:48 PM
Thank you very much!

I looked at the German page too and managed to glean a little about opening times - I hope they update the English page at some point.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 12, 2013, 06:29:01 AM
I went to Doorn about 15 years ago and it is well worth visiting. I hope it stays open.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 09, 2013, 08:48:36 AM
Depending on the long term status of Doorn, is there any possibility that Wilhelm II would be relocated to the Temple of Antiquity to join Dona and other family?
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 09, 2013, 11:46:01 AM
There was a suggestion some years ago that he be reburied in Berlin Cathedral, but his own instructions were for burial at Doorn unless he returned to Germany in his lifetime.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 17, 2013, 03:32:13 PM
I also read in Catherine Clay's book that Wilhelm refused to be buried in a country that was not a monarchy. Either way, it seems, his being returned to Potsdam is probably very unlikely.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on April 17, 2013, 08:41:42 PM
We've seen repatriations in the last couple decades of exiled royals being re-interred in Russia and Yugoslavia. One never knows. I doubt the family would press the issue but if Doorn eventually does close, they may very well want to have him reburied with the other Hohenzollerns.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 18, 2013, 04:12:43 AM
Agreed. It seems unlikely that the issue will arise unless Doorn closes, and then it's a matter for the family.

Meanwhile, have there been any suggestions of moving Karl from Madeira to vienna? After all, he is buried on Madeira because he died there during a fairly brief visit, whereas Wilhelm was settled at Doorn for 20 years.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on April 18, 2013, 08:51:04 AM
Hi Ann,

I was wondering the same thing several years ago - since Zita is interred in Vienna, why not repatriate Karl??

Semi-explanation:
I have a Portugese friend, who hails from Madeira, not far from Funchal, and he told me that the citizens there do not want Karl moved as his site is supposedly credited with miracles and he is now Blessed in the Catholic trek to sainthood and they don't want him moved.
Apparently, the Archduke Otto allowed his father to remain in Funchal, with his blessing...

Just passing along what I was told - - don't know if any of this is official.  Please don't conclude that this is fact...

Larry
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 18, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
As we approach the 100 year anniversaries of so many WWI events and tragedies, the decisions about Willhelm's next resting place could be tainted by such events, should Doorn close in the next few years. The family could use the closing of Doorn and the anniversaries as a positive marketing tool in order to close some wounds and set a vision for the future. On the other hand, forces could overshadow any positive opportuntiies with 100-year-old rages getting dredged up once again.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 19, 2013, 04:08:30 AM
Hello Larry

Thanks for this interesting info. I did wonder whether Karl's beatification was a factor.

For what it's worth, and this is entirely a personal view, I'm not a believer in reburials when the original burial was a decent Christian burial (Nicholas, Alexandra and family are a different matter). If Otto was happy for his father to stay in Funchal, then there he should stay.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 10, 2013, 10:27:45 AM
Did Kaiser Wilhelm II. make many state visits?

The UK and Russia visits where highly covered in the media, but what about other countries?

France seems unlikely, but the rest?
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on August 10, 2013, 01:32:17 PM
I think he made quite a few. If I remember correctly, his mother was very offended by the fact that he completed official visits to Russia, Sweden and Denmark before his father had been dead 2 months. By the end of August 1888, he had paid state visits to Bavaria, Wurttemberg, Saxony, ,Baden and Austria. By the end of Oct 1888, he had visited Italy. So, by the time he had been Emperor 4 months, he had made 9 State Visits. Queen Victoria wrote that it was beginning to 'be much talked about' , his 'indecently early and hurried' visits to various capitals. His first cousin, the Grand Duke of Hesse also wrote disparagingly of his 'glorious triumphal progress' and worried about the affect on his already large ego. Nonethless, he soon planned for an official visit to Greece. He also paid a state visit to Jerusalem in 1898.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 11, 2013, 10:23:10 PM
By today's standards, I was Wilhlelm II who was decades ahead of his time and his royal contemporaries who were out of touch. His quick goodwill tours were very popular with the locals and we must not overlook that his trip to Jerusalem left that city with a major hospital, financed by the Kaiser, that still exists today. I think he should be given high marks for taking his new job seriously and making his impact without months of tea parties and balls before getting down to business.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kitt on August 12, 2013, 08:38:33 PM
Several years ago I went through my grandfather's photos for a family scrapbook.  He had emigrated from Germany in 1911.  One of his treasured photos was one of Kaiser Wm. II.  Just an official  one of the Kaiser in uniform.  My family thought I was nuts, but I put in Grandpa's section.  I am glad I did. I guess he never forgot the Kaiser.
All the best, Kitt
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 13, 2013, 08:04:23 AM
Several years ago I went through my grandfather's photos for a family scrapbook.  He had emigrated from Germany in 1911.  One of his treasured photos was one of Kaiser Wm. II.  Just an official  one of the Kaiser in uniform.  My family thought I was nuts, but I put in Grandpa's section.  I am glad I did. I guess he never forgot the Kaiser.
All the best, Kitt

The conventional and engrained view of the WWI and post WWI period in Anglo-American culture understates and dramatically overlooks the significant ethnic German sub culture of the period and the positive ties new immigrants retained until they were all but forbidden to do so. Kaiser Wilhelm and his family, particularly his wife and daughter were extremely popular during the belle epoque. My grandparents had pets named after the Kaiser and in fact kids were often nicknamed "Kaisy Bill" in ethnic German families. Another example, at the Germania Club in chicago, Kaiser Wilhelm and his family were prominently featured in photographs at the entrance. Depending on the age of your Grandfather when he arrived in the USA, his memory of the Kaiser and life in Germany was very likely more positive than negative, and his emigration was due to greater work opportunities than opposition to Wilhelm.

Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kitt on August 13, 2013, 09:24:03 AM
Exactly.  In 1911 he had many more opportunities as a baker here.  The Kaiser Bill stuff was fine until WWI. My grandparents were to be married close to when the US entered the war.  Their wedding was severely curtailed and the whole local German community went very low key.  The way Grandma and Grandpa explained it, no one wanted to display their German ethnicity in public.  My grandparents were fluent in English, but my father and aunt as small children only spoke German. Then they were abruptly immersed in English.  That immersion was so deep that we as grandchildren were not taught German within the family.  I can read some and understand some when I hear it though. That happened to several of my friends with German backgrounds.

Depending on the age of your Grandfather when he arrived in the USA, his memory of the Kaiser and life in Germany was very likely more positive than negative, and his emigration was due to greater work opportunities than opposition to Wilhelm.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 13, 2013, 02:58:44 PM
Kitt, your family's experiences were similar to almost all ethnic-German families across the USA after 1914. My grandfather was forced to change his name in order to keep his job. He went from Heinrich Rosengarten to Patrick Rose. This was commonplace and quite sad. Even before the war, German immigrants (perhaps other ethniciites as well) were processed by immigration officials who force-changed their names. I know of a family whose ancestors arrived at Baltimore with the name of Waldenburg. The immigration officer instructed them that their new name was Johnson...take it or go home.

German farmers in Iowa were routinely attack by the KKK--yes, the KKK in Iowa--during the war with the purpose of searching the properties for hording, assumed to be destined for Germany. I know of one case where the farmer was murdered. This history is essentially undocumented and past down as word-of-mouth because no one cared back then or now. I think it is a good reminder of social injustices that so many wrongly think got their starts in the 1960s.

The anti-German craze even went to the extent of "biting off the nose to spite the face". The biggest industry in the nation as the 1920s came in was beer production and sales. Ethnic German brands controlled over 80% of the market share. The strong anti-German movement and lobby used their might and the German dominance of the beer industry to build the case for prohibition. It was probably the single greatest reason why prohibition was made into law.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Rodney_G. on August 13, 2013, 03:46:01 PM
My grandfather emigrated from Berlin as a boy in the early 1880s . His father, my great-grandfather (urgrossvater?), ran an inn on the Havel river. My grandfather Paul remembered seeing Wilhelm when the future Kaiser was in his early twenties. He was on military  parade at Potsdam. Grandfather mostly remembered Wilhelm's withered arm.

Within my family not much is known of the reception they received here. They entered the US at New York, possibly Ellis Island, though not necessarily. And though our name  was (is, let me tell you) thought to be hard to pronounce and spell, fortunately there was no move to change it.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 14, 2013, 09:45:46 AM
I'm not a fan of Wilhelm, but it was a great mistake for Amerika to say that for peace the Kaiser must go...
14 Points... Wilson was such a liar..
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on August 14, 2013, 12:09:50 PM
I'm not a fan of Wilhelm, but it was a great mistake for Amerika to say that for peace the Kaiser must go...
14 Points... Wilson was such a liar..


Summarizing his 'Fourteen Points' which of these do you disagree with? And which would you go so far as to consider "lies"? I take issue with #6, question #9, and realize that while well intended #14 was destined for failure. Otherwise...

1) Reliance on open diplomacy rather than secret agreements
2) Freedom of the seas
3) Free trade
4) Reduce the military forces and/or weapons
5) Readjust the colonies fairly
6) The allowance for Russia to self-determine its own government
7) Respect for Belgium's Integrity
8 ) Restoration of French Territory
9) Italy receives territory based upon ethnicity
10) Austria-Hungary receives fair development opportunities
11) Independence for the Balkan states
12) Self-determination for the peoples of the Ottoman Empire and free passage through the Dardanelles
13) Independence for Poland
14) The formation of a League of Nations to guarantee independence for all countries, large and small

It's really the French you should be taking issue with, not Wilson and the Americans. Wilson's speech and the eventual Treaty of Versailles had significant differences. The most notable being the 'War Guilt Clause' that was not even mentioned or pushed for by Wilson, but none the less added at the urging of France to the lay the blame for the war and the responsibility of reparations at the feet of the Germans. If WWI had been settled by a treaty strictly adhering the Wilson's Fourteen Points the history of Europe over the next quarter-century could have been materially different.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 14, 2013, 12:32:22 PM
Wilson was a liar.
What had happened at Versailles had nothing to do with the 14 Points for which had Germany lay down its weapons.
Wilson’s response, in notes of October 14 and 23, made it clear that the Allies would only deal with a democratic Germany, not an imperial state... (strange, wasn't the UK also an imperial state...?)
Amerika supported the french in all they wanted. It was right that the Netherlands didn't hand over Wilhelm.

Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on August 14, 2013, 04:03:25 PM
Quote
What had happened at Versailles had nothing to do with the 14 Points for which had Germany lay down its weapons.


I agree as I indicated above. But explain to me then why you're so critical of Wilson and his statements regarding post-war peace? Isn't it the terms of the Treaty itself that so rankled German pride?

Quote
Wilson’s response, in notes of October 14 and 23, made it clear that the Allies would only deal with a democratic Germany, not an imperial state... (strange, wasn't the UK also an imperial state...?)

A fair amount of hypocrisy I grant you, but then England already had a reliable track record of dealing with this sort of thing, and did not face the same sort of political turmoil that had engulfed Germany and Russia. Wilson and the allies simply lacked confidence in a German government where the Kaiser was still at the helm. Whether they had the right to force Germany's hand on this issue is source for debate, but certainly one can understand their skepticism. Consider the following...

By 1917 Wilson was forced with the difficult decision of either keeping America officially neutral or entering the war on the side of the allies. The only way Wilson, who gained reelection in 1916 largely because he kept America out of Europe's awful mess, could convince the country to enter the war was to sell the people on it's lofty aims and moral imperatives. Wilson was talking about peace and postwar reconciliation at a time when Britain, France, Italy, etc, were keeping mum on the issue of critical importance.

Germany was crumbling from within, and after disastrous losses on the battlefield and upheavals in the government newly appointed Chancellor Max Von Baden stubbornly rejected admitting defeat and signing off on a peace deal until his country had the opportunity to recapture some of its lost territory and save some face. Von Hindenburg meanwhile saw the situation more clearly, and feeling pressured to do so Von Baden again wrote Wilson expressing his openness toward a peace deal. Wilson and the allies were naturally skeptical prompting the demand to deal only with a democratically elected regime. Ludendorff dismissed of this and the fighting continued until Germany finally collapsed from exhaustion within weeks.

It was a miscalculation on both the part of Wilson and the German high command, but I wouldn't consider the foundation of peace to rest on lies and deceit. Wilson was far more amenable to German pleas than his allied partners. He also was angered by the rejection of his peace deal, deemed acceptable by Germans but denied by their government, and therefore turned up the heat.

Lets flash forward about a quarter century. Lets say serious discussions for peace with Nazi Germany has arisen in the fall of 1944. The allies were closing in by this time, their army was on the run and the government growing desperate. Would it have seemed reasonable for the allies and President Roosevelt to negotiate a peace with Germany that included Hitler (or an ideologue disciple) remaining Chancellor of and leader of a newly reformed Reichstag? I dare say no!
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 15, 2013, 07:57:36 AM
Unfortunately, Wilson was weak. To give him some positive upside, he was less of a liar and more of a ball-less, powerless, impotent leader who allowed Clemenceau and Lloyd George to dictate terms and essentially ignore his inputs. Wilson's name is all over the terms of the Armistice that was never implemented in the manner or spirit of its creation and content. Hence it appears as if Wilson was a liar and cheat. However, Clemenceau is the ultimate culprit in the end-of-hostilities debacle of lies, blackmaiil and extortions. He, and George, rolled completely over Wilson, and Clemenceau's behavior toward Wilson is particularlyl egregious considerising Wilson rescued him and his nation from sure defeat or at least a far less French-dominated peace.

Probably the most interruptive and destructive actions that led to the post-hostilities disasters was the communist-inspired revolution in Germany. While the Bolsheviks were officially seen as not acheiving leadership or guiding post war decisions, their insidiousness was a strong influencer of political results. Of course, Clemenceau capitalized on this additional blow to internal German stability which allowed him to further enact his agenda of vengance, reparations, and war guilt. Wilson evolved into little more than an interested bystander.

I agree with Marie Valerie that The Netherlands did the right thing in not turning over Wilhelm. In fact, and in hind sight, the right thing to have done would have been to support his retaining his title and position, even as a figure head, while creating the obviously much needed new form of government.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on August 15, 2013, 08:49:10 AM
Quote
Unfortunately, Wilson was weak. To give him some positive upside, he was less of a liar and more of a ball-less, powerless, impotent leader who allowed Clemenceau and Lloyd George to dictate terms and essentially ignore his inputs.

He was the first modern American President (with the possible exception of Teddy Roosevelt) to fully grasp the importance of America's role on the world stage. His actions helped shaped our foreign policy for decades afterwards. If that makes him "ball-less" and "impotent", what do you call the isolationist Republican congress led by one Henry Cabot Lodge?

Quote
Hence it appears as if Wilson was a liar and cheat. However, Clemenceau is the ultimate culprit in the end-of-hostilities debacle of lies, blackmaiil and extortions. He, and George, rolled completely over Wilson, and Clemenceau's behavior toward Wilson is particularlyl egregious considerising Wilson rescued him and his nation from sure defeat or at least a far less French-dominated peace.

Possibly. But then the US had never engaged in a foray of this kind. And what's more it was still mostly their continent, their issues, their war, and their peace at stake. France and England had been doing battle for three years before America officially got involved. And when we did Wilson made it clear that we were to keep a separate army, with separate objectives. It would be hard to do this and then turn around and expect to dictate the terms for everyone at the end of the war, no?

Quote
Achieving leadership or guiding post war decisions, their insidiousness was a strong influencer of political results. Of course, Clemenceau capitalized on this additional blow to internal German stability which allowed him to further enact his agenda of vengance, reparations, and war guilt. Wilson evolved into little more than an interested bystander.

This is true and I don't disagree. But then Germany attempted to capitalize on the chaos going on inside of Russia by aiding the revolutionary cause. Slightly off topic I realize, but what goes around comes around...

Quote
I agree with Marie Valerie that The Netherlands did the right thing in not turning over Wilhelm. In fact, and in hind sight, the right thing to have done would have been to support his retaining his title and position, even as a figure head, while creating the obviously much needed new form of government.

I also agree with the two of you here. I'm simply suggesting that this falls into the hindsight is 20-20 category and not an indication of brutal negligence by Wilson and the allies. I'm also suggesting that the allies were justified in their skepticism of Germany's intentions...and considering what Germany's track record would end up being over the next quarter century, can you really blame them?
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 15, 2013, 09:13:32 AM
I don't know why edubs31 mentions wwII here.
Without Versailles there would be no wwII.

This has nothing to do with Wilhelm II. and that he was forced out of his country by the allies.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 15, 2013, 01:29:10 PM
Wilhelm  Ii, though the bogey man of WW1, was a very different figure from Hitler.  I think he was in part a victim of his bogey man reputation, but that he also did himself no favours by fleeing to Holland. But when every other monarch in Germany was abdicating, then there was really no chance of retaining the monarchy. I agree entirely that a constitutional monarchy would have been the best solution, and could have prevented the 'loyalty vacuum' which was part of the milieu in which Nazism flourished.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 15, 2013, 02:59:45 PM

Quote
I agree with Marie Valerie that The Netherlands did the right thing in not turning over Wilhelm. In fact, and in hind sight, the right thing to have done would have been to support his retaining his title and position, even as a figure head, while creating the obviously much needed new form of government.

I also agree with the two of you here. I'm simply suggesting that this falls into the hindsight is 20-20 category and not an indication of brutal negligence by Wilson and the allies. I'm also suggesting that the allies were justified in their skepticism of Germany's intentions...and considering what Germany's track record would end up being over the next quarter century, can you really blame them?

Track record? From 1871 to 1914 Germany particiapted in three wars. Great Britain 16. France 15. Great Britain actually did build an empire that "conquered the world" with domination over 23% of the world's population and about an equal control over land mass. I don't think if looking at track records, one could reasonably think the two major allies were gentle, peaceful, and non-aggressive.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on August 15, 2013, 04:29:16 PM
HerrKaiser) You're misunderstanding what I'm referring to. When I say "track record" I'm comparing Germany's semi-autocracy to England's Constitutional Monarchy and their move toward parliamentary style government, and the French Republic. So Germany's political track record in terms of their government was naturally worse in the eyes of the United States.

Marie Valerie) My WW2 example above was just that, an example. I could have gone with a US Civil War example but I figured using WW2 as an extension of the First World War and Germany's involvement  made a lot more sense for comparisons sake.

I also was not making an ideological comparison between Hitler and the Kaiser, I compared them only as German heads of state on the losing side of a war and despised by the allies. In this example I juxtaposed Germany's military situation in 1918 as being similar to their situation in 1944.



Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on August 16, 2013, 09:47:46 AM
There's a fairly recent book called The Kaiser's Genocide:

"On 12 May 1883, the German flag was raised on the coast of South-West Africa, modern Namibia - the beginnings of Germany's African Empire. As colonial forces moved in , their ruthless punitive raids became an open war of extermination. Thousands of the indigenous people were killed or driven out into the desert to die. By 1905, the survivors were interned in concentration camps, and systematically starved and worked to death. Years later, the people and ideas that drove the ethnic cleansing of German South West Africa would influence the formation of the Nazi party. "The Kaiser's Holocaust" uncovers extraordinary links between the two regimes: their ideologies, personnel, even symbols and uniform. The Herero and Nama genocide was deliberately concealed for almost a century. Today, as the graves of the victims are uncovered, its re-emergence challenges the belief that Nazism was an aberration in European history. "The Kaiser's Holocaust" passionately narrates this harrowing story and explores one of the defining episodes of the twentieth century from a new angle. Moving, powerful and unforgettable, it is a story that needs to be told."

"In the German genocide against Herero and Nama we read of extermination orders, forced labour and concentration camps designed to kill off indigenous peoples who were articulate, politically able and well resourced, but ultimately doomed as the Kaiser's troops introduce a policy of "absolute terror and cruelty... by shedding rivers of blood and money" (General von Trotha) in which the missionary churches were actively complicit.

This alone is a story that needs telling widely, but the second part of the work shows the significance of this colonial experience for future nazism. The colonies first Governor was the father of Hermann Göring, the uniform of the SA was that of the Wilhelm II's brown shirted colonial army. More significantly, the colonial period saw the emergence of the pseudo science of eugenics and the legal framework to protect the purity of German settlers from racial contamination. Terms appear that are to be more infamously used later: Rassenschande (Racial shame), Rassenreinheit (Racial purity). Interracial marriage is made illegal. This was all to make the colony racially safe for emigration for a Volk that needed Lebensraum (living space) to expand into and escape population pressure at home. In the final chapters Olusoga and Erichsen skillfully show how these ideas survive the collapse of 1918 and become a core element of the politics of the right. Hitler uses his Landsberg imprisonment to read much of the work on race that emerged out of the Wilhelmine colonial experience. After 1933 races considered impure, German Jews and Gypsies, are subjected to the treatment first employed in South West Africa: Nuremberg Laws to end racial mixing; control and internment in concentration camps, forced labour, extermination. One chilling story is that of the 400 "Rhineland Bastards", children fathered by French colonial troops occupying the Rhineland after 1918. By 1937 all are sterilised.

There is a final twist in the argument. Hitler's war, it is argued, was ultimately one for colonial Lebensraum in the east. The German treatment of the eastern populations and Red Army was different to the western conflict as Hitler considered the eastern peoples to be similar to uncivilised indigenous colonial peoples. Fighting was more brutal, civilians were treated with even less regard. Necessary he believed to ensure Lebensaum and civilisation. The nazis compared this push East to how Wilhelm's troops had fought the Herero, or the British the Sudanese & Tasmanians, the US the Native Indians, or the Argentines with the tribes of the south.

Thought provoking, this is an important, thorough and well written work. It ranks with Hochschild's "King Leopold's Ghost" as an indictment of European colonialism but develops its arguments beyond normally considered confines to place the events of a short-lived German colony in a far wider context."
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 17, 2013, 01:10:58 PM
The UK, France and Belgium of cause did never any crimes in their colonies...
You say that Germany is always guilty..
At least there is a Verganganheitsbewältigung.

How did you think get the UK so many countries as colonies???
With peace? Ridiculous.

The UK had killed millions of people, in the time of the british empire died under brtitish rule 5.500 Indians every day. That was genoicide.
But there is no "sorry" for the victims the british empire is still glorified in the UK.

Belgium and Leopold II. had killed millions of people in the Congo and squashed his colony.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: IvanVII on August 18, 2013, 03:05:21 AM
Marie, I think you should read the last two paragraphs of Ellla's post again.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 18, 2013, 03:55:33 AM
Though Wilhelm was ruling at the time most of this happened, was he personally associated with it in the way Hitler was?

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 19, 2013, 06:41:15 PM
Though Wilhelm was ruling at the time most of this happened, was he personally associated with it in the way Hitler was?

Ann

Not that I ever knew before this small quote from what is a complete book.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 19, 2013, 06:43:30 PM
Marie, I think you should read the last two paragraphs of Ellla's post again.

I see your point, but then why is the title of the book gving the wrong impression? Marie is simply pointing out the obvious bais that is only unearthed or exposed in anecdotal comments. However, need to read the book to be sure.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 20, 2013, 04:21:16 AM
I don't think the book's title prves anything. The German offensive of March 1918 has become known as the Kaiser's Battle, but Wilhelm certainly did't take command of it.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 20, 2013, 08:22:02 AM
I thought the title was referring to 1883 and the period of concurrent imperialistic policies of leading European nations and the U.S. My mistake, but the except confuses.
Title: Bao, Cunningham and Townsend - are they descendants of Kaiser Wilhelm?
Post by: Saissa on October 15, 2013, 12:02:19 PM
I am a newbie here  as you can probably tell from my profile - I just joined today.  I am an amateur genealogist and have reached a number of brick walls in both my own family tree as well as that of my husbands. So I need a new challenge.

My challange is to create one huge big family tree of everyone on the British line of succession. The list I have, has over 1300 names on it. Of course, these names are all protestant. I will be adding in Catholic spouses and families as and when necessary.

Running my eyes down the list which I found at the below link - I came across 3 interesting families with the names of Cunningham, Townsend and Bao.
http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wakefield/history/britsucc.html

Stephanie Bao is listed as a great (x2) granddaughter of Kaiser Wilhelm, and also her father is Prince Stephan von Preussen. I cannot find any information about him at all. Bao also appears to be a Chinese or at least a Southeast Asian name. Does anyone know who the father of Stephanie's kids is?  This family is listed around Number 380 on the list.

Princess Stephanie of Prussia, Mrs. Bao (b. 1966), great-great-granddaughter of Kaiser Wilhelm
Aaron Bao (b. 1994), elder son of Princess Stephanie
Amir Bao (b. 1998), younger son of Princess Stephanie
Shoshana Bao (b. 1996), elder daughter of Princess Stephanie
Seraphine Bao (b. 2002), younger daughter of Princess Stephanie


The Cunningham and Townsend lines have absolutely no identifying details at all other than they are listed between Mecklenburg-Schwerin & Reuss and the Oldenburg & Yeltchaninov lines. They are listed as approximately number 1180

Charles Cunningham (b. 1996), son of Charlotte Cunningham
Louis Cunningham (b. 1998), son of Charlotte Cunningham
Donnall Cunningham (b. 2002), son of Charlotte Cunningham
George Townsend (b. 1997), son of Yolande Townsend
James Townsend (b. 1998), son of Yolande Townsend
Bartholomew Townsend (b. 2000), son of Yolande Townsend
Marie Townsend (b. 1995), daughter of Yolande Townsend

If anyone can let me know how they are related to Kaiser Wilhelm, or at least to the British royal family, that would be great.

Thank you.

Francesca Thomas
Title: Re: Bao, Cunningham and Townsend - are they descendants of Kaiser Wilhelm?
Post by: Превед on October 15, 2013, 12:24:49 PM
Stephanie Bao is listed as a great (x2) granddaughter of Kaiser Wilhelm, and also her father is Prince Stephan von Preussen. I cannot find any information about him at all. Bao also appears to be a Chinese or at least a Southeast Asian name. Does anyone know who the father of Stephanie's kids is?  This family is listed around Number 380 on the list.
Princess Stephanie of Prussia, Mrs. Bao (b. 1966), great-great-granddaughter of Kaiser Wilhelm
See http://www.thepeerage.com/p10389.htm#i103889 They are descendants of the Kaiser's fourth son, Prince August Wilhelm.

The Cunningham and Townsend lines have absolutely no identifying details at all other than they are listed between Mecklenburg-Schwerin & Reuss and the Oldenburg & Yeltchaninov lines. They are listed as approximately number 1180
The Cunninghams: http://www.thepeerage.com/p10886.htm#i108852
The Townsends: http://www.thepeerage.com/p4446.htm#i44458
They are both descendants of Luxembourgeois princesses, who may have British succession rights through Anne, Princess Royal, daughter of King George II, Princess of Orange, whose daughter married into the House of Nassau-Weilburg.

This site, by the late Willliam Addams Reitwiesner, a very respected genealogist, is a much better source to the British line of succession, as it also shows by which line of descent people are listed: http://www.wargs.com/essays/succession/2011.html
Title: Re: Bao, Cunningham and Townsend - are they descendants of Kaiser Wilhelm?
Post by: Saissa on October 15, 2013, 12:48:28 PM
WOW, Such a fast response.

Thank you so much!!!!

I have seen the Peerage website but I cant seem to get a handle on how to find my way around it. But now that I know what treasures it holds, I will keep trying.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Превед on October 15, 2013, 03:24:06 PM
You're welcome, Saissa.

Kitt, your family's experiences were similar to almost all ethnic-German families across the USA after 1914. My grandfather was forced to change his name in order to keep his job. He went from Heinrich Rosengarten to Patrick Rose.

That is sad and quite ironic, when you think how famous and respected similar Germanic names have become in the US: Roosevelt (i.e. Rosenfeld) and Bogart (i.e. Boomgart / Baumgarten). But that is of course because they are Dutch. As a European I must admit I'm fascinated by the patrician ring a Dutch name has in the US, with its allusions of patrician Knickerbocracy, Hobbit-like folklore à la the tales of Rip Van Winkle, Sleepy Hollow and Sinterklaas / Santa Claus, Calvinist sternness and Mid-Atlantic religious tolerance and the whole republican heritage of the Dutch Republic. And im intrigued as to which degree the German-Americans did (not) latch onto that fundamentally nativist American heritage, just like the Hohenzollerns had done with their Orange-Nassau ancestors (Oranienburg castle, Calvinism, orange ribbon for the Order of the Black Eagle etc.)

The anti-German craze even went to the extent of "biting off the nose to spite the face". The biggest industry in the nation as the 1920s came in was beer production and sales. Ethnic German brands controlled over 80% of the market share. The strong anti-German movement and lobby used their might and the German dominance of the beer industry to build the case for prohibition. It was probably the single greatest reason why prohibition was made into law.
Interesting, never thought of that!

HerrKaiser) You're misunderstanding what I'm referring to. When I say "track record" I'm comparing Germany's semi-autocracy to England's Constitutional Monarchy and their move toward parliamentary style government, and the French Republic. So Germany's political track record in terms of their government was naturally worse in the eyes of the United States.
You can't call the German Empire a semi-autocracy. Remember that there was universal male suffrage on the federal level from the beginning in 1871. (Actually from 1867 in the North German Federation.) Decades before Britain had universal male suffrage. Of course the executive branch (the Kaiser and his government) was not elected, unlike the US President, but just like the US the German Empire did not have a parliamentary system, there was strict separation of powers. Thus it was prone to the same dead-end blocks and conflicts between the executive and legislative branches that we see in the US right now.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on June 18, 2014, 10:02:45 AM
Spotted in yesterday's 'Daily Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10905909/Kaiser-Wilhems-early-drawings-shed-new-light-on-childhood.html

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 28, 2014, 10:30:12 PM
King George V and Kaiser Wilhelm II driving in Berlin.
(http://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/PA-14721183.jpg)

The Kaiser and Kaiserin with, sitting on the end, far right, second row, the Duke and Duchess of Brusnwick amongst other friends and relatives at the Kasiser’s Christmas party.
(http://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/PA-1163136.jpg)

http://flashbak.com/before-the-war-europes-royal-family-in-1913-8807/
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 29, 2014, 04:15:23 AM
I suspect this wasn't a Christmas gathering, since the men in the front row (including Eitel Friedrich having weight problems) are wearing white trousers - worn by the Prussian Guard in summer. Could this have been taken at the time of the Kaiser's Silver Jubilee in June 1913?

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 29, 2014, 04:17:36 AM
Also the ladies are in black, so a mourning group.

Not the Kaiser's jubilee then.

Ann
Title: Picture of Wilhelm II
Post by: Queen_Missy on January 06, 2016, 12:31:24 PM
Has anyone else noticed that his head is being held up and the person is edited out of the picture?

https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/search#/24/collection/2900406/prince-william-son-of-prince-and-princess-frederick-william-of-prussia-1860-in
Title: Re: Picture of Wilhelm II
Post by: Kalafrana on January 06, 2016, 03:47:10 PM
Bear in mind that this picture was taken in the days when exposures were measured in minutes, and keeping a small child still for that long was a major problem.

The left arm is already quite noticeably short.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 07, 2016, 11:57:05 AM
That s called "Hidden mother" even when it wasnt the mother the one who held the baby still.

Anyway, first time i see a "hidden mother" like this one, heavily edited to delete the whole body of the person holding the baby!!
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Queen_Missy on September 08, 2016, 11:35:02 PM
About Ella and Wilhelm II - has anyone seen any letters she wrote about him?? Everyone seems to say that she did not return his feelings at all - but have we seen anything FROM her?

Also, are there any letters of any kind known between them - after all, they are cousins and probably wrote sometime.
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: thebelgianhare on July 14, 2017, 07:30:39 PM
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2d8bk9.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2gul7yf.jpg)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2hxoim9.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2i0t548.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2q3d8ab.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2uffy2t.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/vqk37o.jpg)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/14pmdf.jpg)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/14sd478.jpg)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/35crfrl.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/1zwyj53.jpg)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2uykitj.jpg)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/adgioi.jpg)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/scz90o.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/qxuyo0.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/if1ukg.jpg)



Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Queen_Missy on July 30, 2017, 03:32:42 PM
February 1876
Dearest Willy,
Thank you for your dear letter and the book and flower. I hope your leg is better. The little bird is very pretty. I hope we will see you and Harry soon again. We are all very well. Mama and Papa and Sisters all send their love and many kisses XXX
Your very loving cousin, Ella

March 15 1878
Dearest Willy,
Thank you for the book I just received. I was sorry you had stopped just at that spot and wished for you to go on. I shall read it myself now and enjoy it very much. But did Harry get to hear it? It was Grandmama’s present for him, I shall send it back if he has not tho I do not like to have to do so.

I send you what I was painting – tho’ it is not half so good and pretty as I should have liked. My foot is much better and I was up a little today. Mama says Grosmama is much better.

In three weeks it will be 3 years since – you remember in April 75?
Your very loving cousin, Ella

April 7 1878
Darling Willy,
I found what you left in the book and it is so sweet – I must write to you tho I do not have much to say and we only said good-bye two hours ago. Yes in 73 is when – I don’t know if I should write it here –I shall just say that I would be able to say the same as you did in your note, as much as a child could, since I was only 8 then. I think of Hothouse – of M 9th & of the 5th & the 5th 3 years ago – when you first said something and the first
XXX Your Loving Ella
Title: Re: Kaiser Wilhelm II, Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 27, 2017, 09:50:31 AM
In the penultimate picture the officer with Wilhelm at the map table looks like August von Mackensen.

Ann