Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Greek Royal Family => Topic started by: jfkhaos on January 06, 2005, 12:00:22 PM

Title: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: jfkhaos on January 06, 2005, 12:00:22 PM
I have read that Queen Frederika died in Madrid during some sort of eye surgery.  Is this correct, and does anyone have any pictures from her funeral?  Was Sophia allowed to stay any longer in Greece than her brother Constantine was?  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Marlene on January 06, 2005, 04:41:36 PM
Quote
I have read that Queen Frederika died in Madrid during some sort of eye surgery.  Is this correct, and does anyone have any pictures from her funeral?  Was Sophia allowed to stay any longer in Greece than her brother Constantine was?  Thanks in advance!


Yes, Frederika suffered a heart attack while undergoing minor eye surgery in a Madrid Hospital.  Sofia did not remain longer than her brother.

Frederika's death and funeral was well-covered by the international media, and the newspapers had photos of the burial.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: jfkhaos on January 07, 2005, 12:01:04 PM
Thank you for the information Marlene.  Where did QF live once she was exiled from Greece?  I have a feeling it might have been Rome, but something also tells me she lived for a time with Sophia.  
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Jim1026 on January 07, 2005, 12:07:05 PM
Queen Frederica also spent some time in India .(studying
Easteren religion I have heard not sure how true that is
thought).
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Marlene on January 07, 2005, 01:10:15 PM
Quote
Thank you for the information Marlene.  Where did QF live once she was exiled from Greece?  I have a feeling it might have been Rome, but something also tells me she lived for a time with Sophia.  



She divided her time between Rome and Madrid and Madras, India
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on January 14, 2005, 08:18:15 AM
i have a picture of frederikas funeral but im not sure how to put it on here you can see if you go to the greek royal house web site and go to links queen frederika
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: jfkhaos on January 14, 2005, 11:18:14 AM
Thanks for the tip!  I have tried to access the site but apparently it is down...I will try again.  In the meanwhile, here is a picture of Frederika wearing the emerald tiara with the intertwining E's for Queen Elisabeth, now owned by Anne Marie, as a necklace:
(http://www.2neatmagazines.com/covers/1953cover/1953-Nov-16.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on January 14, 2005, 07:36:45 PM
She also wearing Queen Sophie's tiara. That's probably one of the better known images of her--was it for a formal event like a coronation?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on January 15, 2005, 08:50:22 AM
she was a very beautifful women i have a lot of pictures of her
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 14, 2005, 03:41:49 AM
i have always wanted to no why frederika was disliked. im in the middle of reading her book were she of cause comes acros in a very positive but i have read another book were she was described as being petti, corrupt, greedy, bitter cruel bethor i read that i always viewed her as a very intelegent, beautifful, strong, witty and spiritul women.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: darius on February 14, 2005, 06:50:46 AM
Perhaps having been born German and grand daughter of Kaiser Wilhelm II did not help her popularity.
I believe that according to Hugo Vickers biography of Alice, Princess Andrew, Frederika was on occasions quite nasty to the older princess - on one occasion failing to inform Alice that Princess Nicholas has died.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on February 14, 2005, 09:11:54 AM
I don't know what all the root of it is but I have a older Greek friend who swears up and down she was a Nazi and practically spits every time he mentions her.  :-/  She certainly rouses passions.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 14, 2005, 11:03:06 AM
i heard that she was not a nazi but like every child in germany she had to join the hitler groups her parents pulled her out and sent her to england then italy.
in her auterbiography she talked obout a jewish docter saving her husband.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: lexar on February 14, 2005, 11:52:55 AM
My consort had met her as a child. She certainly possessed all the public relations attributes that fit a queen! (unlike her husband who, even as a king, could hardly speak the language of his subjects).
However, half of the Greeks were against kings and royalty by conviction through upbringing.
She was also of German descent and this certainly did not help either (not with the Greeks of W W II)!
So, there you have most of it!
One more reason: Because of her husband's inclinations, apparently she was quite active in Greek political life, even if behind the scenes. Such does not still sit well with many men, of that region or in general!
She died rather early, although by then she probably had plenty of opportunities to show what she was really made of.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 14, 2005, 12:05:30 PM
yes she died age 64 which was quite tragic i heard she was poisond or purpusly killed in some sort of surgary in spain

p.s can some one tell me how to put images on here
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on February 14, 2005, 12:20:17 PM
You need a online photo storage account of some kind (many of us here use photobucket.com which is free). You upload your photos to that (it's easy). Once that's done or if you already have an account of some sort:

1) press the button above that looks like a postcard (that's the add image button)
2) this will give you (http://)
3) just insert the URL you're given at your photobucket (or other) account in between the  2 sets of brackets
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 15, 2005, 08:06:49 AM
thanks for that info

i dont beleve frederika was a nazi coming from a german background my self i no that a lot of people seem no think u are a nazi people need to unterstand that the german people are no responsable fpr the crimes of adolf hitler. as for frederika she was by no meens a saint but was misunderstood like Marie Anttoinett of even Tsarina Alix
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: darius on February 15, 2005, 08:46:51 AM
Re. THe death of Frederika - she was apparently undergoing surgery to remove cataracts secretly in Madrid going under the knife of King Juan Carlos´s brother-in-law and died under the anaesthetic. Rumours abounded that she was actually having a face-lift at the time.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Robert_Hall on February 15, 2005, 09:37:24 AM
Although I never knew or met the woman, my grandmother [who was a strange bird in her own right] had some odd feelings about her. Apparently they knew each other quite well, which makes sense to me as  they [my grandparents] were firm Greek monarchists.  Grandmother would speak fondly of Frederika one time, then rail against her another day. I think she liked her personally, but had something against her politics perhaps.  My feelings for my grandmother, however, were unequivocal, I disliked her intensely so didn't pay much attention to what she was saying about anybody.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Marlene on February 15, 2005, 10:12:29 AM
Quote
yes she died age 64 which was quite tragic i heard she was poisond or purpusly killed in some sort of surgary in spain

p.s can some one tell me how to put images on here



She suffered a heart attack while undergoing surgery in Madrid.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Marlene on February 15, 2005, 10:14:39 AM
Quote
My consort had met her as a child. She certainly possessed all the public relations attributes that fit a queen! (unlike her husband who, even as a king, could hardly speak the language of his subjects).
However, half of the Greeks were against kings and royalty by conviction through upbringing.
She was also of German descent and this certainly did not help either (not with the Greeks of W W II)!
So, there you have most of it!
One more reason: Because of her husband's inclinations, apparently she was quite active in Greek political life, even if behind the scenes. Such does not still sit well with many men, of that region or in general!
She died rather early, although by then she probably had plenty of opportunities to show what she was really made of.


You've hit on most of it .. being German did not help, but she was devoted to Greece and the Greek people with the establishment of charities, one being the help and aid the children kidnapped by communists.  She also could be forthright, steely, determined and she didn't suffer fools gladly.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on February 15, 2005, 10:23:10 AM
A royal cousin of the late Greek Queen described her thus to me not long ago: "Freddie was born 50 years too late. In the 1890's she would have been a fabulous royal, but at the time she lived, we were in decay and many of her ideas just did not fit in.  She was tough, had extremely strong opinions, a piece of work even, but she wanted to protect Palo and the children as much as possible.  I have always believed she should have given Tino more space to develop.  is she guilty for the calamity of 67?  I would dare say that perhaps she is, not the only one mind you, but maybe if she had absented herself from Greece after Palo's death, politicians would not have used her figure to attack Tino.  all quite terribly sad if you ask me."

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 15, 2005, 11:22:15 AM
yes al you say is sadly true i think freddy was her own wurst enemy in the end her meddling in politics was her down fall.

reading her book i get the feeling Palo was quite a shy and weak man he was certanly no match for freddy. she states quite proudly that she oftern gave what she called helpful advice to politions.

as for the face lift i herd rumers that it was a early form of plastic surgary. you can see in photos that she aged badly. she did some lectures at Madras univercity in the 1970s maybe she wanted to look more youthul at them.  

you can imagen that surgen never worked again! :-/

Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on February 25, 2005, 03:42:11 PM
If I dare say, Greeks, at least Greek men up until the 60s were very chauvinistic, in particular to any woman who possibly who might have had some intelligence and some opinions of her own.  
Frederika was used as a scapegoat by the politicians for their own failings.
Sure she was a dominant person and strong opinionated, but she was also the women who was on the front line against the communist insurgents in Koritza, and directly appealed to the west for help against the insurgency, etc. etc.
How coincidential that Frederika was condemned after her husband had passed, and quite hypocritical as well.
Please, the man used to walk into a room and the whole floor would shake.

Alas, pardon my outrage, but as a firm Greek monarchist, I am outraged by some of these comments and myths perpetrated by no good greek opportunist politicians.  I remember recently, when Constantine set up the Anna-Maria foundation, some politician had the gall to state in an ironic fashion, "I remember his mother had such a foundation as well."  There are plenty of people still alive that can attest to the good Frederika's foundations did for the greek populace.  The hypocrisy of it irks me!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on February 26, 2005, 10:50:43 AM
Greek politicians, not the nicest or most honest of people, ever, did not like Frederica because they knew she took part in consultations with Paul.  The left hated her because of the role she had played against them during the civil war in the late 1940s.

Frederica was not a demon, just a forceful person, who, unfortunately, had the propensity to get herself in the middle of arguments, many of which perhaps she should have kept out of...a nosy Nadine...

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: vitos on February 26, 2005, 12:09:19 PM
I want to know the in-depth biography the Queen FREDERIKA
RECOMMEND, please, literature on the Queen FREDERIKA
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 26, 2005, 12:42:52 PM
You should read A Measure of understanding 1971 her aurtobiography it is an exilent book if you want to no about freddie the person she deffends her self well and gives some quite convincing evedence against the Nazi claims i am in the middle of reading this book. If you want to now about history and politics you will find it rather triveal. here are a lot of amusing storeys but she does go on about her and her husband king paul and about how in love they were its al a bit sentimental when you think of her and pauls aledged unfaithulness to each other. there is also a lot about phillosophy science and religon she has also used a lot of letters to and from her friends to show her in a very posotive light you dont get the idea than she was a forsful and domenering women but you do get a huge sence of her wit charm and interlect.

Try also no ordanery Crown about king Paul

or The rape of greece 1994 for a very negative view on frederika
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on February 26, 2005, 12:59:53 PM
A Measure of Understanding is a nice book...a little too philsophical at times though.  There is also the book on Frederica written by her friend and lady-in-waiting, Lilika Papanikolau.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: vitos on February 26, 2005, 01:33:25 PM
WHAT ITEM the QUEEN FREDERIKA In April 1967
April 18 1967-50 YEARS ANNIVERSARY the QUEEN
21 Aprils REVOLUTION
THAT she(it) WROTE ABOUT IT In THE MEMOIRS
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 26, 2005, 02:24:54 PM
what was the name of frederika's friends book?

there was one i saw on amazon a while ago called Frederika and the making of modern greece 1990
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on February 26, 2005, 07:23:15 PM
I think that is it...written by Lilika Papanikolau.  we sold tyhe book at Eurohistory since 1998 and sold the last copy last Christmas.  I am trying to get more copies since it sells all the time.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ilias_gr on March 13, 2005, 09:01:43 AM
There was also a rumored afair of Frederika with prime minister Mitsotakis...Other Greeks on the boards can enlighten us on the subject cause my memory isn't helping me!

And an anekdote about that!

Once after a fight between them Mitsotakis told Frederika that :  "One day I'll be where you are"
Meaning head of state and in a twist of events later Mitsotakis became president of the greek republic, which typically is the highest position on the government. I say typically because he doesn't have real power as president.

Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on March 13, 2005, 02:01:14 PM
there were other afairs which may or may not be true one with General Marshal and Jan smuts of South Africa.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: TampaBay on March 13, 2005, 04:36:26 PM
She spoke very hughly of Jan Smuts in her 1971 book.

TampaBay
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on March 14, 2005, 11:22:15 AM
Quote
There was also a rumored afair of Frederika with prime minister Mitsotakis...Other Greeks on the boards can enlighten us on the subject cause my memory isn't helping me!

And an anekdote about that!

Once after a fight between them Mitsotakis told Frederika that :  "One day I'll be where you are"
Meaning head of state and in a twist of events later Mitsotakis became president of the greek republic, which typically is the highest position on the government. I say typically because he doesn't have real power as president.




You mean Karamanlis, not Mitsotakis.  There were plenty of rumors, not only of Karamanlis, Gen. Marshall, and Jan Smuts, but probably just Greeks talking non-sense about a women with some degree of power.  God forbig Greek chauvinists saw a woman in power!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on March 14, 2005, 11:28:57 AM
what about the allen dulles afair do you no any thing about that?

i thought it was karamalis as well the other was prime minister for 3 years between 1990-1993. i thought she and karamalis hated each other?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ilias_gr on March 14, 2005, 04:21:07 PM
There's a fine line between love and hate!   :)
Looks can be decieving!  :)

Anyway sorry about my mistake with karamanlis but I'm quite young and unfamiliar with politicsof the last 40 years.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on March 14, 2005, 04:46:55 PM
Quote
what about the allen dulles afair do you no any thing about that?

i thought it was karamalis as well the other was prime minister for 3 years between 1990-1993. i thought she and karamalis hated each other?


Mitsotakis is not placed in the so called "affairs" of Queen Frederika, and where his name came up I have no clue.  Regarding Dulles, the same thing as Karamanlis, etc, all nonsense.
Its interesting that every male that the Queen had a correspondence with, or friendship, was turned out to be her lover.  I mean really!  General Marshall, a man who was on his deathbed during his and Frederika's correspondence.  
As if a woman couldn't be intelligent and have a friendship with a man!  
Of course no one took the time to think, hey, here is a Queen, who has no constitutional/political role, and she can have communication with leaders in a manner that her King husband could not?
Alas, the Greek mentality at its finest...
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on March 15, 2005, 09:42:48 AM
Frederika had a very strong character and even within the family this was widely known.  I always recall the fight she had with the Queen of Spain, Victoria Eugenia.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 15, 2005, 09:49:28 AM
I think Arturo has it correct. I never heard anything about "affairs" but I did sense a resentment by the older Greek women in my family. It seems she came off "pushy", authoritarian, take charge, bossy. Probably the only way to get things done there.  Of course, Greek amamas are exactly the same, so they didn't like her doing it to them ! At the same time, my family was devoted to the monarchy [just not it's queens I guess].
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on March 15, 2005, 02:37:54 PM
what fight did she have with queen Ena of spain?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on March 15, 2005, 03:35:56 PM
You may start this question as a new thread in the Iberain royals forum!  ;D

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on March 16, 2005, 03:13:25 PM
Quote
Frederika had a very strong character and even within the family this was widely known.  I always recall the fight she had with the Queen of Spain, Victoria Eugenia.

Arturo Beéche


Precisely my point Arturo: Strong woman, strong character, strong opinions, she must be of ill repute according to the Greek male chauvinist mentality!  She was supposed to be home cooking mousaka while the communists ravage the country in the 1940s and the people in their poverty rebuilt the country in the 50s from the ground up!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on March 17, 2005, 11:10:41 AM
However, Frederika did not like that and instead she actively participated in her husband's efforts during the civil war, which, as you pointedly say, she should have been home.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: lanksareit on March 17, 2005, 02:32:08 PM
I haven't read much about Frederika, but remember a big diplomatic scandal in sixties London when she was chased down a street in broad daylight for some unknown reason, ripping her stockings, black eyes, the lot. It was in the papers for days.

I also read she spent her last years in India having renounced all the trappings of royalty.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on March 17, 2005, 02:38:31 PM
Quote
However, Frederika did not like that and instead she actively participated in her husband's efforts during the civil war, which, as you pointedly say, she should have been home.

Arturo Beéche


Arturo,
I hope you realized I was being sarcastic, that the Greeks would have probably prefered the Queen being stuck home cooking instead of speaking her mind and  in the trenches fighting for her nation and her people.  (Your message sounded like you didn't catch my sarcasm)
I'm a proud Hellene, but sometimes my people's chauvinist attitude and political hypocrisy disgusts me.
Regards,

Stavros Skenderis
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on March 17, 2005, 02:49:00 PM
Quote
I haven't read much about Frederika, but remember a big diplomatic scandal in sixties London when she was chased down a street in broad daylight for some unknown reason, ripping her stockings, black eyes, the lot. It was in the papers for days.

I also read she spent her last years in India having renounced all the trappings of royalty.


The incident occurred while the Queen was with her daughter Irene for the wedding of Princess Alexandra of Kent (her mother Marina being a Greek Princess).  There was a protest by leftists, headed by a woman named Betty Ambiatelos, against Greece's so called imprisonment of political prisoners.  Mind you, there were only about 500-1000 political prisoners left in Greece, compared to the early 50s, of which it had not been the rightist government who had imprisoned them, but the center-left government of the late 40s early 50s.  Mrs. Ambiatelos husband was one of these prisoners.  
This episode would cause unrest in Greece, who felt angry at another smack in the face by the British (Cyprus issue was very hot back then). It also lead to the eventual resignation of Prime Minister Karamanlis, when the following year, he protested the King and Queen's official visit to Britain at the invitation of Queen Elizabeth II, citing the Cyprus difficulties and fear of another protest such as the one that occurred at the Kent wedding.  The King felt he could not offend Queen Elizabeth and decided to go anyway.  Karamanlis resigned, leading to the eventual electoral victory of the centrist forces under Prime Minister George Papandreou in late 1963.  
One of the first acts of Papandreou was to release the remaining political prisoners, including Mr. Ambiatelos.

Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 16, 2005, 12:10:44 PM
I heard she died as a hippy who spent most her time in India in later years.  She was very unpopular always, with no natural charisma unlike Alexander I for example.  Someone once told me Greeks hated Frederika and then the Nazis!  Her relationship with the far right in Germany was always extremely blurred and probably for a good reason.  I don't think being a woman has anything to do with it as Greeks love their passionate women of power as countless figures have shown.

 However she was 'obviously' german which was unattractive after two nasty World Wars, power hungry - not always an agreeable asset to the masses, Ugly - not much to do with anything, but just another bit of hatred to add to the pile and Frigid.  

Perhaps, in my opinion, a figure that was so damaging to Greece's former Monarchy, she single handedly ended it forever and hatred for her lives on through her children who are guilty of only being her off-spring, but so much is the hatred, - that is enough for them to be instantly dismissed by many greeks.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 16, 2005, 04:06:41 PM
Fridgid, ugly, no charisma!

i dont agree one bit!

Frederika was a beautifful, pasonate, inteligent and charismatic women. But she was german, strong wiled and domenering she also controlled her son and husband.

But i agree she did have a hand in ending the monarchy.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: TJ Jones on April 16, 2005, 05:17:16 PM
Ok now I'm a 14 year old boy, and when I saw that magazine cover with Queen Frederika with that low cut gown, and that sexy seductive look she had. I was like DAYUM shes hott. How could anybody call that woman ugly?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 16, 2005, 05:49:41 PM
LOL you are still young and probably got no hormones yet, here is your famous time magazine, LOL

(http://i.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1953/1101531026_400.jpg)

Some other pics of her earlier in the 50s

(http://www.anl.gov/Science_and_Technology/History/Images/frederika.gif)

There used to be a picture of her in her Nazi youth outfit but i think someone took it off, when she was at school in Italy she famously bored the other Italian kids to death angrily stating that only the Germans can claim to be the master race!

Like her cousin prince Philip, she was famed for 'putting her foot in it', however unfortuantely unlike Prince Philip the stupid statements were usually directed against Greece, one of my favorites and most famous of hers in  India (itis long and very funny but the final line is the one that is gold);



‘You are fortunate to inherit such knowledge. I envy you. While Greece is the country of my birth, India is the country of my soul.’


This speech becomes even more impressive when you realise she was actually born in Blankenburg, Harz, Germany, but i think she was pretty much out of it when she gave this , 'heart felt' speech.., LOL
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: TJ Jones on April 16, 2005, 06:04:32 PM
OH no!!...not that pic she looks like my Mother! lol theres another one where she looks sexy. I wish I never seen that pic now when I look at her I think mom ewww.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: TJ Jones on April 16, 2005, 06:14:02 PM
Get that picture of Frederika outa here!!! Oh and believe me I got hormones lol. If you ever seen me out in the streets you would be very surprised that I know what a Romanov is. Please get that pic of Frederika out of here. Thats not the Frederika I know. She dont even look like the same person she looks like my mother. How old was she when this was taken?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 17, 2005, 04:43:41 AM
This is the one you meen isnt it?



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/1953nov16255B1255D5B15D1.jpg)
remember that all children had no option but to join the nazi movement and as she was a girl she could have said these things without realizing what she was doing.
ive red that quote on another website which was about indian philosophy not her so they may have misquoted!

to say she had no charisma is obsered she had a dazzaling smile and was always toring the country talking to people and going on state visits. I read a book by a stornch republican and socalist who said that frederika was a beautifful and charming women he also had quotes from others who comented on her strikeing beauty and forcefull charm even in her 50s!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 06:36:05 AM
Quote
remember that all children had no option but to join the nazi movement and as she was a girl she could have said these things without realizing what she was doing.
ive red that quote on another website which was about indian philosophy not her so they may have misquoted!

 ;D, i'm sorry, she was not misquoted, you have not read my post and just commented anyway just like she would have! ;D  I will say again for you her most famous Quote in full this time when she was famously  FAMOUSLY visiting her Guru, this ones for you Queen Frederika! Every Greek knows this speech, LOL.  Here a little on her before it too,

Queen Frederika
Queen Frederika, the wife of King Paul of Greece was known as much for her outspoken and domineering nature as for an extreme patriotism and anti-communism that bordered on the fanatical. The collapse of the Karamanlis conservative government in 1963 had as much to do with Queen Frederika's trip to London as it did with the assassination of Grigoris Lambarkis. (She was met with massive riots as Karamanlis had predicted and asked her not to go) As a girl Frederika had belonged to a Hitler Youth group and while in school in Italy she was heard defending Nazi Germany. Three of her brothers served in the Wehrmacht, Hitler's army. What is not known about Queen Frederika is her spiritual quest which led her to India as a disciple of agadguru Chandrasekarendra Saraswathi Swamigal. Queen Frederika, had been practicing meditation for sometime and had studied the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi. Frederika claims that it was her advanced research in physics that had started her on a spiritual quest.  It culminated in her accepting the non-dualism or absolute monism of Shankara as her philosophy of life and science.  
"In the nineteenth century, scientists had thought that the cosmos was made up of ninety-two basic elements, such as hydrogen, oxygen and iron, which were indestructible.  This implied that the universe had a diversity of independently existing materials.  However, during this century research had revealed that all elements were in fact made up of a single energy.  The cosmos was therefore intrinsically one, whether it appeared as a speck of dust, a tree, a Nobel Prize-winning genius or a black-hole beyond the galaxies.  The differences were merely appearances.  Our senses give us a knowledge of what is apparent, but not of the underlying one reality of the cosmos.  This one energy which permeates the whole of creation was what Hinduism calls ‘brahma’.  Long before physics discovered it, Shankara had argued that the world of sense experience, that is the world of matter, was a world of appearance (maya), because at the root of each individual existence is the same energy which forms the cosmos.  The human self (atman) is ultimately not distinct from the universal self (brahma).  Duality is illusion.  Reality is not dual, but one.  Science has yet to catch up with what the seers in India had already understood over 2500 years ago. While Greece is the country of my birth, India is the country of my soul."

Some REALITY sites for you ;  

http://www.ahistoryofgreece.com/junta.htm


Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 17, 2005, 06:48:14 AM
yes thats the site  i saw it on first,its obviously such a famous quote that  i have never herd it anywere bethor ive told greeks ive spoken to about it and no one has ever herd of it! this just one website such a quote wouln be well known

if you actuly read any of the other posts on this site you might learn some more ;D
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 06:55:18 AM
Quote
yes thans the site  i saw it on first,its obviously such a famous quote that  i have never herd it anywere bethor ive told greeks ive spoken to about it and no one has ever herd of it! this just one website such a quote wouln be well known

if you actuly read any of the other posts on this site you might learn some more ;D


LOL, no both the websites i quoted you have  the speech and there are other websites that have that speech too, you don't want to admit it do you?  Are you related to her or something! ;D
LOL and those Greeks you've spoken to probably heard your blatent German accent and didn't want to offend you.  There are still many Greeks who are royalists, but many who aren't, however unfortunately when she spoke, sometimes people wrote it down! ;D
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 17, 2005, 09:14:37 AM
er im not german!

its al very easy to use scapegoats ist it german=nazi is that what think? tell me as you your self said she died a hippy i doubt many hippys would have taken to kindly to a nazi. a nazi would not want to live in india and embrace there phillosophy would they!

as for the websites one probably used the quote from the other the greeks ive spoken to did not have a lot of good to say about her but they agreed that frederika was proud if her geman roots and would never have said such a thing! its just so stupid obvously not true so why say it! ???

anyway ive been reasurching Frederika for 3 years and have never come across this quote anywere apart from that website :-/
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 09:26:51 AM
LOL, you mean the two websites, 1,2 ;) If you really want to research her and that FAMOUS quote or the final nail in the coffin quote as i like to call it, just get in touch with the people and organisations involved that were mentioned - they have the internet in India and i'm sure the people there will be able to help u with your research.  A Nazi and a hippy, did it ever occur to you that there is a reason there are few references to her in the 70s - she lost it, why would two seperate websites make up such a complex speech on metaphysics and many greeks still remember she said it?  This conspiracy of yours is bigger than JFK!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 09:42:53 AM
I envy you.  While Greece is the country of my birth, India is the country of my soul.’

 Website
http://www.ahistoryofgreece.com/junta.htm

With His Holiness Sri Sankaracharya of Kanchi

The spirit of humility and ardent quest for the highest values was reflected in the reply that Her Majesty gave to the Chairman of the Municipal Council of Masulipatnam who met her in the special railway coach and entreated her to agree to a civic reception: "Thank you; but we have come all the way from Europe, not as members of Royalty but as humble devotees seeking the blessing and guidance of His Holiness."

  This is a great site where she talks about her vegetarianism and 'Supernormal manifestations' she has.

http://www.kamakoti.org/souv/5-35.html

Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 17, 2005, 11:31:50 AM
i know that she had mental health problems in later life it stated in the 40s in about 1964 she started to say that her dead husband was coming to her in the night telling her how to run the country. There is almost nothing about her in the 1970s except thta she gave lectures at the university of Madras.

as for this quote did it ever occur to you that as all these web sites use the same quote thay got it from the one and only source i doubt you were there when she said it so i might be that she was mis quoted or was herd rong or she was misundestud or they just assumed that she was queen of greece that she was greek :-/ the only truth is what came from her own mouth  she alegedly said this in 1968 her metal problems were not the big yet they realy started after 1974 i dont what to discuss this quote anymore its borring lets just agree to disagree on this one! but they were intresting web sites though.

were did you get this idea that she was frigid from?

( even if i was german i doubt many greeks would mind to much about my feelings considering their view of germans) ;D
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 11:55:26 AM
you might have noticed that that speech you say was made by an imposter or just a greek tourist they happened to confuse with Her Royal Majesty Queen Frederika, has slight differences in each site and is not identicle which adds to its authenticity, anyway i agree to disagree with you ;)

Frigid?  I just think she was very detached and mechanical.  Not saying all Germans are like this ;) We have seen how passionate they can get... :-[ but to me, as a person she seemed devoid of any notion of a Mediterranean character.  A true right-wing Robot!

If there are ever going to be Royals in Greece again they will have to be Greek as the Germans and English don't stand much of a chance. 8)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: TJ Jones on April 17, 2005, 02:27:15 PM

Lol, did she really say that lol. I can imagine if there were any Greeks there how they would turn and look at each other confused lol. Thats so funny!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 17, 2005, 02:31:31 PM
wright wing robot! but yet again you cant be a nazi and a hippy it does not work! (except with charles manson the exception that proves the rule) nazis thought that asian people and there realigons were inferia i doubt if she realy was a nazi that she would have given them any time. she obviously was not a medatiranian but she was very open and passonate in her views if you read any of the other posts here you will find out about the aledged affairs she had. many people have commented on her radiant smile and charm but also arrogance even in exile she sold her jewels and renonced every thing to do with royalty.

to me she seemed a fasinating, inteligent, humerous and very human :-/

if you think she was a cold evil nazi with all the charizma of a tree stump id like to no what you think of tsarina Aliks
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 17, 2005, 03:23:22 PM
These posts are verging on abusive. I am asking for the FA to take a look.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Forum Admin on April 17, 2005, 03:45:14 PM
I wish to remind everyone of the rules of civility and courtesy please. disagree with what someone says, but respect the person.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 04:01:52 PM
LOL i think the moderator who asked you to look at this thread is over sensitive.  We have been going around a very delicate issue and very much information has been pasted and discussed in detail and we are all much wiser for it including myself.  We have only been respectful of each other and have at many points said the phrase, 'i agree to diagree :) If however i am wrong please can the person who feels ''abused'' post now and i will be the first to appologise;
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 17, 2005, 04:11:36 PM
theres something i agree with we have both been forcefull in are opinions but not abusive to one another we both have very strong but different views thats all if you agree with me or reaper_the_pure there is no reason to be so sensitive we have i think we both learned something from eachother :-/
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 04:23:15 PM
Quote
theres something i agree with we have both been forcefull in are opinions but not abusive to one another we both have very strong but different views thats all if you agree with me or reaper_the_pure there is no reason to be so sensitive we have i think we both learned something from eachother :-/


Spoken beautifully Basilissa Frederika!
(Queen Frederika) ;)

just sent u a pm!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 17, 2005, 07:00:34 PM
You will please note I wrote VERGING on the abusive. I have not posted yet I have noticed the heated opinions on this topic.
I will, however, take offence at using "hippy" as  derogatory  and denegrating the study by Westerners of Eastern tought.
I also saw "wright [sic] wing robot"  rather accusatory.
A great deal is being lost in translation here. Have any of you read her book  "A Measure of Understanding"?
No pulitzer prize but at least an insight on her thoughts.
The title is most apt.
Cheers.
Robert
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 17, 2005, 07:24:42 PM
i have read a measure of understanding i was going to say that the title has a deep meaning that frederika wanted the world to no and not juge her and read what she had to say it is a facinating and unique life story both my profile quotes are from that book.

remeber im deffending frederika i dont think reaper_ the_ pure ment hippy as a derogatory term it was quoted on another website she is offen called that as she not only was a scoler of easten philsophy but she gave a lot up and chose to live her life in a way that was at the time was known as "hippy" its not to dissraspect anyone. she was also rather eccentric which was just in her nature nothing involving her view on easton philosophy. we both had a heated discution we have strong views and a forcefull way of arguing them thats some thing queen frederika would admire! ;D
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 17, 2005, 08:15:06 PM
Quote
You will please note I wrote VERGING on the abusive. I have not posted yet I have noticed the heated opinions on this topic.
I will, however, take offence at using "hippy" as  derogatory  and denegrating the study by Westerners of Eastern tought.
I also saw "wright [sic] wing robot"  rather accusatory.
A great deal is being lost in translation here. Have any of you read her book  "A Measure of Understanding"?
No pulitzer prize but at least an insight on her thoughts.
The title is most apt.
Cheers.
Robert


i agree totally with Frederika (the forum member) ;)  Just as i was pessimistic with my views on the former queen of Hellas, Frederika was more optomistic, neither of us were offended, and reading your latest post you are the only one with a problem here ???  If i accused Queen Frederika of being a 'right wing robot, (not wright*) so what? was that worth calling in the Forum Admin?? :-[ ;D
I posted sites that may display her a hippy yes, again, so what? Do you think i hate Hippies????? LOL

I conclude by saying what everyone besides you believes, nothing was verging on the abusive, LOL ''abusive'' being the strongest adjective i can see at the moent on this thread! The only one who was offended was you as the rest of us have said we were enjoying a lively debate of information before you awkwardly told us you were calling the Head admin.....anyway ::) back to the former Hellenic Queen..

I have heard of this book many times and it comes across as Frederika says as a kind of vindication, are there any other books on her from a more informal biographer that is more no holes barred and warts and all and perhaps at times sensationalist!?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 17, 2005, 09:16:32 PM
You asked what I thought was verging on abusive. I told you. Instead of constuctive conveyance of your intent, you rant on.
Hey- I can respect your opinion of the person, if I knew what it actually is.
I am no big fan of Frederika either, but I do read her words and have some personal knowledge of her through my grandparents. So- like I said- A measure of Understanding is called for.
Btw, the "sic" is in context.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 18, 2005, 03:09:23 AM
a measure of understanding is a good read its obviously very positive but in does tackle many of the questions people have with her. there is one problem and that it is just to sentimental! i just cant believe she realy loved her husband and he her after they were both unfaithfull.

for you a would strongly recomend The Rape of Greece
its an irish book in english its availible in libaries and on the net i cant remember the auther theres another one called Frederika and the Making of Modern Greece
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 18, 2005, 06:09:20 AM
thanx, i like the sound of the irish one!
i'm on line now ;)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 18, 2005, 11:07:23 AM
I agree. The Frederika book is too senimental, a sort of apologia. I found it reflective though.
And, the Irish guy- Muntagh, The Rape of Greece sounds far more interesting, but it starts selling at $400 ! Definitely  look for it at the library. There is another, Rape of A Nation [Greece] by Cokkinos.  It sells at $100 ! It is privately printed and I guess a tirade of some sort.
For totally devoted fans of the Greek Royal Family, Arthur Gould-Lee's book is an old standard. It is dated though- 1948 and far too worshipful to my tatse.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: TJ Jones on April 18, 2005, 03:56:25 PM
So did Frederika give up her walk with God? Or is it possible to take on Hindu beleifs and remain a Christian? Does she say anything about that? That talk of the cosmos stuff is very Big Bang Theory-ish.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 18, 2005, 04:12:35 PM
she said in her book she lost faith in god she went on about nuclear physics alot the idea that you could aply nuclear science to the runing of a country is i think madness. The rape of greece is very anti royalty and in particular anti frederika!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on April 19, 2005, 09:56:29 AM
Quote
she said in her book she lost faith in god she went on about nuclear physics alot the idea that you could aply nuclear science to the runing of a country is i think madness. The rape of greece is very anti royalty and in particular anti frederika!


I do not remember reading in her book about her losing her faith in god.  On the contrary, it seemed that in her quest to find god she began her interest in nuclear science and the Hindu spirituality.  
I find nothing incompatible with being a Christian and seeking to broaden your believe in god through more spiritualism.

Another read is the biography "Queen Frederica of the Hellenes: Mission of a Modern Queen" by her lady in waiting, Lilika Papanicolaou. (I believe this is what you may be referring to).
It is obviously a pro-Frederika book, highlighting the events of World War II, the work Pavlos and Frederika did during the civil war, and in the inter-war years.  I found it a very interesting book and does good to the Monarchist side view of events.

All those books, "Rape of Greece", "Democracy at gunpoint", etc., are all biased in one way or another, and must be taken with a grain of salt.  They are clearly factional and party political, and each tries to lay blame on the opposite side, and do not lay blame whatsoever on themselves.  
One must either read all these books, and then come to the middle on a version of the events, or reading totally outside neutral sources that do in fact lay the blame on each side and where do.

In my opinion, the best books on this whole subject were written by CM Woodhouse, who shows how the polarity in Greek politics and culture has shaped political history of Greece and the Greeks.  

Regards to all
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 19, 2005, 11:52:56 AM
These biographies by her and her lady in waiting are just as bias but the other way obviously.  The truth is somewhere inbetween everything we have already said ;)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: TampaBay on April 19, 2005, 08:07:09 PM
Quote
These biographies by her and her lady in waiting are just as bias but the other way obviously.  The truth is somewhere inbetween everything we have already said ;)


That is why I read books, draw my own conclusions then post on the AP Forum.

Freedom of  Speech, Don't you love it!@!

TampaBay
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 20, 2005, 05:21:58 AM
thats very true they are all bais with a lot of compleyly made up information esapcaly the rape of greece.

this book by her lady in waiting is it avalable anywere?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on April 20, 2005, 11:50:37 AM
Quote
thats very true they are all bais with a lot of compleyly made up information esapcaly the rape of greece.

this book by her lady in waiting is it avalable anywere?


It is called Frederica Queen of the Hellenes, Mission of a Modern Queen By Papanikolaou, Lilika

You can find it at www.greeceinprint.com, also, i think Eurohistory should have it, ask Arturo.

It is a very interesting book, good read.  It covers in detail the life of the Queen during WWII, her efforts in the Civil War, and during reconstruction in the 50s.
It is especially good because you get a first hand account of the Queen's life through a person who lived it firsthand, especially as this lady was involved in all the Queen's charity work, and Mrs. Papanicolaou even describes her own work with the Queen and the charities, in detail.  

I loved it, and one of my favorite Royalty Books.

Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 20, 2005, 12:39:28 PM
does it have a lot of good pictures like a measure or understanding?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on April 20, 2005, 03:38:37 PM
Quote
does it have a lot of good pictures like a measure or understanding?


Very much so!
Pictures from every stage of the Queen's Life as Crown Princess, Queen, and Queen Mother.
It is worth buying it.
Included is also a wealth of correspondence between herself and Secretary of State General Marshall (the same Marshall of the Marshall Plan)
Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 20, 2005, 03:59:52 PM
do you think frederika was an attractive women?

every one seems not to :-/
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on April 21, 2005, 11:02:58 AM
Quote
do you think frederika was an attractive women?

every one seems not to :-/



Attractive in what sense? Beauty or personality?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 21, 2005, 12:01:49 PM
Beauty her personality had a pleasant but also very ugly side.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on April 21, 2005, 12:53:51 PM
Quote
Beauty her personality had a pleasant but also very ugly side.


I think the late Queen was very very beautiful, and it is unfortunate that her daughters didn't quite mirror her in beauty.
She was very elegant and sophisticated, even into her later years.  

I think her personality was just as beautiful, and at the end of the day, the remarks about her are the usual sexist remarks made of any women who is headstrong and of strong character.  We see this even in today's so-called "modern world.
Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 21, 2005, 02:10:16 PM
she was stunningly beautifful quite the lovelyest royal i think ever! but even i admit there was a bad side to her but in no way was it as promenent as what people say.  

i think Yreny was very beautiful when young and is very elegant even to day she is the most like here mother inteligent wise and in looks
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: James_Davidov on April 24, 2005, 04:45:22 AM

Despite my father being Greek, and supposedly coming  from a 'great' Greek family  ::), that was connected to the royal house through civil service for many years, I never really asked anyone in the family about them.  Anyway, one day at afternoon tea at my Thea Tinas house, I asked her about her personal experience with The Greek court.  I cant remember the exact details, but she muttered something, quiet emotionally about attending Pavlos I' funeral, and how supposedly it was rumoured that his coffin (for whatever reason) was filled with sandbags, and frederika was responsible...I'll have to ask her again, allthough she seemed quiet upset about it., i dont believe she was a fan, she was a young girl then though.

James
:)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on April 24, 2005, 11:12:34 AM
my website is working now so you can find out what you need to know there  ;D
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Reaper_the_pure on April 25, 2005, 01:32:21 PM
Quote
Despite my father being Greek, and supposedly coming  from a 'great' Greek family  ::), that was connected to the royal house through civil service for many years, I never really asked anyone in the family about them.  Anyway, one day at afternoon tea at my Thea Tinas house, I asked her about her personal experience with The Greek court.  I cant remember the exact details, but she muttered something, quiet emotionally about attending Pavlos I' funeral, and how supposedly it was rumoured that his coffin (for whatever reason) was filled with sandbags, and frederika was responsible...I'll have to ask her again, allthough she seemed quiet upset about it., i dont believe she was a fan, she was a young girl then though.

James
:)


sounds sinster :o
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on April 25, 2005, 04:22:40 PM
Quote
Despite my father being Greek, and supposedly coming  from a 'great' Greek family  ::), that was connected to the royal house through civil service for many years, I never really asked anyone in the family about them.  Anyway, one day at afternoon tea at my Thea Tinas house, I asked her about her personal experience with The Greek court.  I cant remember the exact details, but she muttered something, quiet emotionally about attending Pavlos I' funeral, and how supposedly it was rumoured that his coffin (for whatever reason) was filled with sandbags, and frederika was responsible...I'll have to ask her again, allthough she seemed quiet upset about it., i dont believe she was a fan, she was a young girl then though.

James
:)


Another batch of rumours brought on by hateful, spiteful, and revengeful sycophants who wanted to bring down the monarchy, no matter what the cost, and through any means possible, or great lengths.

The sandbags rumour was not the only rumour that floated around during King Pavlos's death....

Rumours that should be disregarded and not even brought up, in my opinion.

Regards to all,
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: James_Davidov on April 25, 2005, 09:14:32 PM

Quote
"Another batch of rumours brought on by hateful, spiteful, and revengeful sycophants who wanted to bring down the monarchy, no matter what the cost, and through any means possible, or great lengths".
Quote


I can assure you my Aunt did not want to bring down the monarchy, lol.  She is a very intelligent and compassionate woman and for whatever her dislike for the Queen was, Im sure it was founded.  

Iskenderbey, could you fill me in on the details of the 'sandbag' rumour?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on May 03, 2005, 09:52:44 AM
Quote
I can assure you my Aunt did not want to bring down the monarchy, lol.  She is a very intelligent and compassionate woman and for whatever her dislike for the Queen was, Im sure it was founded.  

Iskenderbey, could you fill me in on the details of the 'sandbag' rumour?


Hello.  Sorry for the delay in responding.  I by no means meant to say that your aunt was part of these rumours, and I am sorry if my message came off that way.  I was just talking generally in regards to those that did create these rumours.  Very spiteful and mean in my opinion.  

The sandbag rumour is part of a bunch of rumours revoling around the death of King Pavlos.   However, being as I find these rumours quite an annoyance and despicable, I would prefer not to bring them up any further, and decline to get into them.

Regards!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: lexar on May 04, 2005, 12:44:22 PM
Regarding the so called rumours!

King Pavlos was killed in a gunfight with his equary officer Levidis, not before killing the second. The reasons were said to be of a... personal nature. They both physically disappeared from public view at the same time.
It was announced that king Pavlos died of cancer.
He was in a hospital but no one of the public ever saw him. There were no pictures what so ever published anywhere during his "sickness". Anyone who has any photos of the time will do me a service to post them!!
News were published of people--namely his grand daughter from Spain--visiting him at his death bed. Pictures were published in the press of this grand daughter but not of the King!
The funeral casket was never in open display!!
No one of the press or public ever saw the King dead!
These are rather facts!!
Conclusion/rumour: The king died during or soon after his gunfight. He was buried days before an official funeral was held. His public funeral casket contained no body of his! Full of sandbags or not, it was buried 15-20 days after the real death.
Of course, any not doctored, publicized pictures would convince any rumour mongers that they are wrong!
Are there any such pictures???
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on May 04, 2005, 02:17:31 PM
thank you very much for theat post lexar that is fasinating!
its true that the death of king paul as a mistery there seems no information and photos of the funeral the hole thing is very straing. there seems to be a lot of missing information about the greek royal family. there is no info on frederikas funeral or  info or pictures of her between 1967-1981
ive hered rumers that she commited suiside in 1975 but this was kept quite and she was beried in 1981 this is untrue i think there are others about her being :-/ murded.
also the lack of information between 1967-1973 of the role of king konstantine and the part played by the royal family between 1924-1935 its al very intresting.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Gamix on May 05, 2005, 07:44:48 AM
 They say..they say they say!!!

 Queen Frederica ,was of german origin,as we all know.Therefore she was a very strong  and clever woman!

 She personally involved into Greece's deleberation campaign against  redbandids,and the same time,under her care,thousands of young children  and people  were saved  from  been kidnapped and dead!!Her contribution  to anti -redbandids war was enormous,and also Her social work to the  Northern provinces who were struck by the war!!So, leftists never forgave Her about that,and since they couldn't damage Her in her work as a Queen they tried to damage Her image as awoman and a individual!!!Bad fiction became propaganda ,wich  became greater  when Our King and Her Husband suddenly became ill,and Herself  personnally took over the Public affairs of the Palace,and in the mean time she was a mother of three children of age needing special care and attention!As you all understand She was speaking with God  and Devil every day and for years!She was inded succesfull to everything she has done!!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 10:49:13 PM
For frederica here are some:

QF at the funeral of John Kennedy
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/BE0258851.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 10:49:45 PM
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/HU0285561.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 10:51:43 PM
with her daughter Irene
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/HU0285571.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/U14107531.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 10:52:30 PM
with her parents and Paul
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/HU0285591.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 10:53:41 PM
with Paul
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/HU0285611.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/HU0586941.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 10:54:21 PM
wedding (among others you can see GDss George 'Greek Minny' in the top right)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/U429372ACME1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 10:56:21 PM
at christening of Alexia (I think) with Constantine II, Anne-Marie and Frederick IX and Queen Ingrid of Denmark (AM's parents)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/daisyconnaught/greece/U14985441.jpg)

(Ingrid was daughter of Daisy of Connaught)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on May 17, 2005, 03:13:34 AM
nice pictures!

i hered that frederika tried to bring legal action against prince petros for publicly denoncing her at some stage but i dont no if this is true does anyone no?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: cimbrio on May 19, 2005, 05:34:35 AM
Queen Fredricka is fairly respected in Spain though, where her daughter Sophia lives now; apparently Sophia wanted to leave Juan Carlos I when she learned of an affair he was having with someone else. According to Spanish gossip, Fredricka told Sophia "You can't leave him. You've made your choice, you're already married, now you're staying there. However, Juan Carlos and Sophia seem to me a very loving couple who above all and under any circumstance show their unity, and are thus one of the most popular monarchs in Spanish history.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on May 19, 2005, 11:07:41 AM
sofia though not as beautifull as her mother an sister has frederika's smile. they were obviously very close as mother an daughter. freddie must have known that sofia could use her furter position as queen to her advantidge so she should stay with Juan. frederika and paul put on a successful united front even with pauls afair and illigitamait chiled.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on May 19, 2005, 12:27:40 PM
Quote
Regarding the so called rumours!

King Pavlos was killed in a gunfight with his equary officer Levidis, not before killing the second. The reasons were said to be of a... personal nature. They both physically disappeared from public view at the same time.
It was announced that king Pavlos died of cancer.
He was in a hospital but no one of the public ever saw him. There were no pictures what so ever published anywhere during his "sickness". Anyone who has any photos of the time will do me a service to post them!!
News were published of people--namely his grand daughter from Spain--visiting him at his death bed. Pictures were published in the press of this grand daughter but not of the King!
The funeral casket was never in open display!!
No one of the press or public ever saw the King dead!
These are rather facts!!
Conclusion/rumour: The king died during or soon after his gunfight. He was buried days before an official funeral was held. His public funeral casket contained no body of his! Full of sandbags or not, it was buried 15-20 days after the real death.
Of course, any not doctored, publicized pictures would convince any rumour mongers that they are wrong!
Are there any such pictures???


It has been a while since this post was posted, but I finally find some time to answer it.
Most of these rumors that you posted are utterly false and ridiculous.
The King's illness was a steady decline due to the disease of cancer. There were many pictures taken of him during his illness, witnessed by many members of the public, and political figures of the time.
For instance, a few weeks before his death, he appears, very ill and barely able to walk/talk, to swear in the G. Papandreou government which won elections in February 1964.
He is pictured a week before his death in Tourkolimano, Pireaus, a personal request of his that he be driven down to this, his favorite greek port.
His granddaughter, who you mention, was 3 months old at the time of her grandfather's death, and she is pictured sitting on the late King's lap, with Queen Frederica standing above them.
In most state/royal/official funerals, no casket is EVER open. It is common practice.
Recent Examples:
President Reagan of the U.S.,
Queen Mother of Britain,
Grand Duchess of Luxemburg,
Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou
Melina Mercouri,
etc. etc. etc.
An open or not casket is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
The "public" saw the King dead, represented by the officials of the Greek Government at the time, led by George Papandreou, then Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister's certification of the King's death is proof enough.  Did we need his body dragged through the streets inorder to prove his death???

At the end of the day, this issue is ridiculous and ludicrous. These rumours were made and still remain perpetrated by close-minded and ill-educated people, who still try to drag the Royal Family's name through the mud.
Quite hypocritical as well.  Let us praise the late monarch, in order to sling mud at his family.

Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on May 19, 2005, 12:30:34 PM
Let me also add, that cancer ran through the genes of the late King Pavlos.
His grandmother, Empress Frederick of Germany (Princess Victoria of Great Britain) and his mother, Queen Sofia of Greece, both died of cancer, and around the same age as King Pavlos.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on May 19, 2005, 02:02:17 PM
but he did seem to contract and die of cancer in a very short space of time. maybe it could be put down to the medical knowledge at the time.

do you no where i can see any of these pictures
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on May 20, 2005, 12:05:21 PM
Quote
but he did seem to contract and die of cancer in a very short space of time. maybe it could be put down to the medical knowledge at the time.

do you no where i can see any of these pictures


It seems King Pavlos was ill for a couple of months beforehand, at least by November of 1963. He had a few operations to remove tumors, but only the last operation did not go well (in terms of being able to remove the cancer totally) and the disease went rapidly after that.  
The picture of Infanta Elena on her grandfather's lap is in "La Reina" by Pilar Urbano.  I have his last known picture in a book but I do not have a scanner.
The February 1964 swearing in of G. Papandreou should be found over the internet.
I wish I had a scanner to send to post them, but unfortunately I do not.
Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on May 20, 2005, 12:06:12 PM
Also, I forgot to post, yes, remember this was 1963-1964, cancer treatment was not at all as we know it today.  If you think even today it is not advanced, imagine 40 years ago!

Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on June 01, 2005, 03:11:08 PM
you can find some info on that book by cliking my profile and following the link to my website  ;)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on June 02, 2005, 02:44:20 PM
Hello!
I know presently at ebay (www.ebay.com), someone is selling a copy of the book.  Search under "Queen Greece" and it will come up.  

Also, try amazon, they sometimes have it on backorder.  Obviously also try Arturo Beeche's site, he should also have it.
Regards!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on June 03, 2005, 10:42:31 AM
Quote
Iskenderbey:  Thank you so much for the tip.  I've placed a bid on the e-bay book.  Let us see now.  This is the first time I've been able to find out anything about Frederika since I left Greece in 1963.  It's like finding the pieces of a puzzle.  Maki


Maki,

I am sure you will be able to find more information on the late Queen on this board as well, as there are numerous threads on her.

Also, look into buying Lilika Papanicolaou's book, "Queen Frederica: Mission of a Modern Queen".
It is the authorized biography by one of the late Queens lady in waiting (kyries ths timhs).
It is another excellent book detailing the Queen's life and works, especially during and after the civil war.

Let me know if I can be of any more help,

Stavros
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on June 06, 2005, 04:20:52 PM
does anyone no anything about the ship the queen frederica that was named after her?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Maki on June 22, 2005, 05:52:21 PM
Stavro, I have to thank you so much for your tips on the two books.  I did win A Measure of Understanding on e-Bay, and am finding it so very moving that I have to put it down once in a while just to collect myself.  If the Russian family was sainted (and our Greek priest said that, yes, they were), it seems to me that Frederika is certainly a candidate for sainthood as well.  Her lifelong quest for peace, her extreme dedication, her willingness to suffer the way she did because it was her "job"...all these things, and the smiling happy spirit which lay beneath them, are saintly in my mind.  I was also able to get a copy of the biography.  I haven't read it yet, but did note that one of Queen Frederika's charities was the Alexandras Clinic in Athens (with a statue out front of I Ellinida Mitera), where my son was born.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Maki on June 24, 2005, 03:49:20 PM
Frederika, are you referring to the ship mentioned in "A Measure of Understanding"?  ("A Greek shipowner, Mr. Eugenides...asked me if I would visit his ocean liner and give it my name."
Maki
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on June 24, 2005, 04:32:51 PM
yea that is the one
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Maki on June 24, 2005, 06:15:14 PM
I am interested in hearing from those who have read Queen Frederika's book what they think of it from a historic standpoint.  Also, how do you react to her statements about mysticism?  Do you think the book has any significance for us in 2005?
Maki
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on June 25, 2005, 04:12:26 AM
the book is unusal  for a royal autobiography because of the mysticism i think a lot of what she said has more relavence to day then it did then
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on July 05, 2005, 03:33:33 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/4d_1_b255B1255D5B15D1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Maki on July 05, 2005, 08:25:41 PM
Freddie,
What a lovely picture.  Thank you.  I see the caption (The Joys of Maternal Love)...is there a date on the photo?
Maki
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on July 06, 2005, 09:19:37 AM
sorry no i got it of ebay i think its a magazine cover it might be around 1963 i have a matching colour photo from the same year
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on July 06, 2005, 09:45:45 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/4d_1_b255B1255D5B15D1.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/frederika252019635B15D1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on November 01, 2005, 11:52:55 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/Frederika_11.jpg)

This is for Marc!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Marc on November 01, 2005, 08:03:52 PM
Thank you so much Frederika,I have nevver seen this one!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2005, 08:34:01 PM
Frederica is wearing the Prussian Tiara in this picture, which she later gave to her daughter Sophia as a wedding present. The current royal who wears this is the Letizia (daughter-in-law to Queen Sophia), who just gave birth to an Infanta named Leonor.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: isabel on November 02, 2005, 02:47:08 AM
The Kaiser William offered this diamonds Tiara to his only daughter Victoria Louise for her wedding.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 02, 2005, 10:01:40 AM
The interesting fact is that it is neo-classic in design, but I guess he had no idea it will end up in Greece and later in Spain.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on November 06, 2005, 03:23:46 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/untitled1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Lucien on February 09, 2006, 01:24:32 AM


one more site...:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=1973419
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 09, 2006, 03:36:19 AM

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/sofi0255B1255D5B15D1.jpg) funeral 12.2.81
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 09, 2006, 03:42:40 AM


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/frederika2520konstantinos252019405B.jpg)

could this be the same place
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: julia.montague on February 09, 2006, 10:52:36 AM
Could be the same place.
I actually never realised that this pic from Tino's christening was taken outside :P
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Maki on February 09, 2006, 11:25:10 AM
Quote
I have read that Queen Frederika died in Madrid during some sort of eye surgery.  Is this correct, and does anyone have any pictures from her funeral?  Was Sophia allowed to stay any longer in Greece than her brother Constantine was?  Thanks in advance!

Frederika asked what Lilika Papanicolau’s book Frederika, Queen of the Hellenes, had to say about the Queen’s last days, so I’ll summarize:  In 1978,  she met in Egypt with President Anwar Sadat, who later received the Nobel Peace Prize.  At this time, the queen divided her time between London and Madrid.  Lilika (her lady-in-waiting) said that Frederika was suffering from heart trouble, but said “the muscles in her eyelids had grown slack, which...interfered substantially with her vision.”  The queen decided to have minor eyelid surgery in Madrid rather than London because she was worried about media gossip in England.  She did not want her children to know or worry about about her  little operation.  She suffered a heart attack during the operation Feb. 7, 1981, in Madrid.  Mrs. Papanicolau’s book describes the funeral at the unheated Tatoi chapel, bereft of the simplest amenities such as drinking water, restrooms and chairs, in some detail.  The headstones of King Paul and Queen Frederika cite verses from St. John (“I have glorified thee.  I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do”) and John, Chapter 17:  “I pray for them.  I pray not for the world, but for them, which thou has given me.”

This book, by the way, is probably available from Greece In Print.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: La_Rainha on February 27, 2006, 03:34:28 AM
A Story out of life!
HEre in Germany, you can find many greece restaurants. While getting something to eat, I started a talk with a greek woman, who`s husband was the owner of the restaurant. By the way, we came to special greece names and she told me, that her name was "Friederiki"
I was astonished to hear this name and not the greek popular women names Maria, Elena or Sofia! The woman told me, her parents gave her the name after the so popular Queen Friederiki. While talking, other greece guests started to talk with me and I noticed, that till today Queen Friederiki is very popular in the hearts of greece people. The told me, she was a woman of character and hard meaning, but has a heart for the greece people. "She came as GErman and died as Greek " said an old man. My question, if they also like Queen Annemarie so much, they told, that she is a friendly woman, but never find the way into the hearts of the greek nation!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: roimat on February 27, 2006, 07:10:40 AM
Queen Anne Marie is popular too, but she stay only 3 years to Greece, so we must mot compaire with Quenn Frederika. Frederika was so popular,because she stant by the people who were suffering during the Greek Sivil War, and she was so supportive to the Greek soldiers. Many oponents say that she like to interfier to the political life of Greece. But none can realy interfier to the politics,unless you let him or her doing it. If greek polititians like to patronise Quenn Frederika and always ask from her to be political, so don´t blaim her, blaim them!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Nicistratos on February 27, 2006, 02:12:37 PM
http://clubs.pathfinder.gr/KingPavlos
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2006, 09:04:14 PM
The reaction towards Queen Frederique was either of love and or of deep hate depending who you talk to.  ???
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eurohistory on February 28, 2006, 09:32:49 AM
Yeteveryone who knew personally agrees that she had a very strong and dominant character.  I have interviewed more than a dozen royals who knew Frederica quite well...they all loved her dearly but also mentionedto me her character issues.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2006, 10:59:09 AM
Yes...Although quite a number of Greeks I have talked to have ideas about her involving into politics... ::)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Frederika on February 28, 2006, 03:57:54 PM
i think a lot of the dislike of her came after the end of the monachey she was popular in the begining
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2006, 09:09:46 PM
Yes I think the later part of King Paul's reign and certainly her son's. Quite a lot of Greeks believed it was her involvement into politics that cost her son Constantine's throne.  ???
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: alixella on November 19, 2007, 02:50:15 PM
This is my first time to post on the forum.  Can anyone tell me what exactly Queen Frederika is supposed to have done that cost King Constantine his throne.  I have read on the forum that she was a very forceful personality who dabbled in politics,but I thought it was a military coup which cost him the throne.  Thanks
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 19, 2007, 08:17:00 PM
She was a strong woman and interferred with politics (like Hillary Clinton).  ::)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: alixella on November 20, 2007, 12:11:13 PM
Thanks for answering Eric.  But I wondered if there was some specific incident which cost the king his throne.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 20, 2007, 07:37:03 PM
I don't think it was one incident but a lot of them togather. Her interferrance was definitely not appreciated (even when her husband was alive).  >:(
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: gogm on November 20, 2007, 08:23:49 PM
Frederika showed the limits of monarchy. She was in a country where a monarch needed a packed suitcase and she tampered with politics with a German heritage that had cost her predecessor Sophia dearly. I suspect her brightest pupil was her daughter Sophia (Sofia) who learned from mom's big errors.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 21, 2007, 03:44:12 AM
Sophia was not as excertive as her mother, certainly I don't think Juan Carlos allowed her to be. However I heard King Paul wasn't a strong charecter.... ???
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: gogm on November 21, 2007, 12:06:03 PM
Just a little reminder or polite conversation with Prince Juan Carlos was probably enough, especially at the right time.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 22, 2007, 08:41:55 PM
juan Carlos was clearly his own man. He was heard more than one incident to tell Sophia to mind her own business.  :o
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Maki on December 27, 2007, 06:53:33 PM
Frederika, are you referring to the ship mentioned in "A Measure of Understanding"?  ("A Greek shipowner, Mr. Eugenides...asked me if I would visit his ocean liner and give it my name."
Maki
I haven't posted here for more than a year, but recently I came across some information about the ship Queen Frederika and thought I'd pass it on. Eugen Eugenides was chairman of Home Lines, which began operations in 1946. The Malolo, built in 1927, later renamed Matsonia and Atlantic, was transferred in 1954 to a Home Lines subsidiary and renamed Queen Frederika. The ship's last cruise was in 1973; it was burnt out and scrapped in 1978. Pictures of the Queen Frederika and of the Homeric, on which I crossed the Atlantic in the 1960s, may be found if you do a search on Home Line Postcards.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2007, 02:55:11 AM
I hope there would be a more balanced book on Queen Frederica.  :(
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: dmitri on December 28, 2007, 05:34:30 AM
I agree. For too long poor Frederika has been painted as if she were the wicked witch of the west by the rabid republicans in Greece. She did a great deal of good work to help particularly with her husband Paul during the very sad years of the civil war. Her death was also quite tragic. She died much too young.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 29, 2007, 12:51:50 AM
Frederica was a strong woman with strong opinions, and that is why some people cannot tolerate her. But I think it is too b/w to just brand her as something. Her story needed to be told. Yes...I hope she would have found peace in India... :(
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Tatoi on January 02, 2008, 06:35:41 AM
I have found the original book by Queen Frederika " A MEASURE OF UNDERSTANDING" that is great!!!
Also, the original book "NO ORDINARY CROWN" with the biography of King Paul I of Greece that is very
nice. If you read both of them you will  a full vision about the Royal Couple, the political history of Greece
from the 1940's untill 1974 and information on the other members of the Greek Royal Family.
I bought them from someone through the internet with only 40 Euros per book and also sent as a gift
this years Royal Family Christmas Card. Both books are original with d/j and in extra fine condition.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on January 02, 2008, 06:46:53 AM
I have been mulling over a response to this post for some days now,wondering whether I should or I shouldnt.
Basically, all I have to say is that Her Late Majesty was a Greek through and through, and loved her adopted homeland and its people passionately.Yes, she was a very proud and headstrong woman, who expected others to know their place.
One must remember that she was born a Prussian and she was forced to leave Greece because of the Nazi/German/Axis invasion which obviously caused her a lot of misery and much angst, not  too mention what sections of Greek society thought of her.
Upon the Royal Family's return we see the breakout of a very bitter and bloody civil war, where the GRF's status was one of the prizes! ie constituitional monarchy or communist republic?
It is only understandable that there have been many many things said about her since.
I have spoken to many people who were in daily and regular contact with the King,Queen and the kids and i know that the above is correct.
God rest her soul.
Long live her son!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: dmitri on January 02, 2008, 08:49:40 PM
very well said .. I think that Queen Frederica suffered as did her predecessor Queen Sophie from their German heritage. The fact that both women cared deeply for Greece has been conveniently overlooked by republican historical revisionists. Sadly revenge is a very strong wickedness that runs through modern Greek history. The deposition of the Greek monarchy was all about a power grab first by the military and second by those who wanted power for their own families. They certainly had no interest in the Greek people. The same situation still is in existence. Republics always claim to represent the people. They never can though as they can only represent those who put them in power and not ALL of the people like most constitutional monarchs claim to do.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2008, 10:36:20 PM
Well...I think Sophie suffered more of association (to Germany) and in private, while Frederica was more of a fighter.  ???
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Maki on January 26, 2008, 05:17:55 PM
very well said .. I think that Queen Frederica suffered as did her predecessor Queen Sophie from their German heritage. The fact that both women cared deeply for Greece has been conveniently overlooked by republican historical revisionists. Sadly revenge is a very strong wickedness that runs through modern Greek history. The deposition of the Greek monarchy was all about a power grab first by the military and second by those who wanted power for their own families. They certainly had no interest in the Greek people. The same situation still is in existence. Republics always claim to represent the people. They never can though as they can only represent those who put them in power and not ALL of the people like most constitutional monarchs claim to do.
Frederika was queen when I lived in Greece for five or six years. The dowry was still in effect at that time, and the queen gave dowries to many girls who would not have been able to marry otherwise. She also acted as (Greek Orthodox) godmother to many children. As a result of this, and as a result of her popularity, there were many, many children in Greece named Frederika.(Phridheriki) These women would be middle-aged now. I wonder that I have not ever heard any mention of these Frederikas, and I was thrilled that either a grandchild or great-grandchild was given her name.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: dmitri on January 26, 2008, 08:53:08 PM
Yes she did much good work. Frederika has been much maligned. She was hardly the wicked witch of the west that successive Greek republican regimes have tried to paint her. These odious little men must truly hate women to do such a thing.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on February 17, 2008, 11:19:32 AM
Here are some pics of Friederike when she was little.

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/I2703.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/8c4f_1_sbl.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/26087.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: carl fraley on August 13, 2008, 03:17:43 AM
Unless I totaly went blind for a minute, I don't see a thread on HM King Paul.  Let's get one started :)

From the few pics I have seen, and from what i have read in the "Kings of the Hellenes" and "A Measure of Understanding", the King seems like he was a full of life type person.  Anyone have any picture of HM?

I recently saw a clip of HM Constantine II talking about Tatoi and walking around it with HM Queen Anne Marie, and they came to the Pool, and Her Majesty, said "Your parents put that in didn't they" and something along the lines that it was a huge flop.... ANyone have any insight?  His Majesty, also said that King Paul use to get up every morning and pull weeds or overgroth and it should a clip of King Paul in shorts and no shirt on "hacking away at weeds or limbs".  I just thought it was an excellent picture.

Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: kempex on September 05, 2008, 10:26:46 AM
Last year, while preparing a large exhibition of the Dutch society painter Antoon van Welie, the museum (Valkhof in Nijmegen, Netherlands)  discovered that one of his portaits depicted Prince Paul. It was painted in 1926 in New York. Prince Paul was 24, 25 years of age at that time.
(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq91/kempex/PrincePavlosIofGreecebyAntoonvanWel.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 05, 2008, 12:35:51 PM
An interesting likeness. I heard from quite a few different sources that he was gay. Some say that was the reason he married so late?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Gabriella on September 06, 2008, 02:47:33 AM
Here are some pictures of King Paul of Greece, some together with his wife and his family. I found them here in the Forum on different threads:

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/paulgreece4.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/Verlobung.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/Hochzeitsfoto.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/FriederikeTaufeKonstantin.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/AL0019671.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/BesuchderGlouchesters.jpg)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/paulgreece5.jpg)

Regards,

Gabriella




 
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Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Iskenderbey on September 16, 2008, 04:11:16 PM
An interesting likeness. I heard from quite a few different sources that he was gay. Some say that was the reason he married so late?

Unsubstantiated rumors as far as I can tell.  Nothing concrete.
Julia Gerardi's book "Born to Rule" states that in the last 20s, early 30s, he was about to marry an English commoner, and Queen Sophie ran to England and put a stop to it.  It seems she knew that sooner or later,,her Georgie would be back in Athens.

Regards
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 16, 2008, 04:39:10 PM
I heard that he was in the gay circle and they established him as one of them. However whether or not he is gay or bi, in the end he married and produced children.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: kempex on November 14, 2008, 07:18:26 AM
Early September I posted the portrait of Prince Paul, that was painted in 1926 in New York.
Would anybody know when Prince Paul arrived in New York and when he left that city? And if he was accompanied by someone? Perhaps where he stayed, etc.
And, if you know anything about this period in his life, would you be so kind to kind to post the source of that information as well?
Thank you very much in advance.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 14, 2008, 11:04:40 AM
1926 ? Was he in business there ?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on November 15, 2008, 07:46:01 AM
Could that have been during one of the exiles?
I havent heard of the GRF going to the USA that early in the 20st century.
I too would be very interested.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 15, 2008, 03:32:22 PM
That sounds interesting...but really what washe doing there ? Did he knowsome friends there ?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: carl fraley on November 16, 2008, 03:12:18 AM
I've never heard anything negative really said about his majesty.  Has anyone ever heard HM the Queen of Spain , or HM the King of the Hellenes Talk Publicly about their Father?  I haven't been able to find any books about him either.    Has HM King Michael ever talked publicly about his Uncle?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 17, 2008, 10:33:49 AM
That depends on what you mean by "negative" ?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Marlene on December 08, 2008, 01:00:06 PM
There is a wonderful biography on King Paul of the Hellenes


No ordinary crown : a biography of King Paul of the Hellenes / Stelio Hourmouzios
published in 1972 by Weidenfeld & Nicolson

Michael mentions his uncle and aunt in his memoirs


I've never heard anything negative really said about his majesty.  Has anyone ever heard HM the Queen of Spain , or HM the King of the Hellenes Talk Publicly about their Father?  I haven't been able to find any books about him either.    Has HM King Michael ever talked publicly about his Uncle?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 09, 2008, 10:04:15 AM
I read it but it was not a deep bio on him. I think he needs another one.

Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on January 09, 2009, 03:22:58 AM
Thank you Lucien for posting this link,
I have unfortunately never seen them before.
It is an indication of the love the Greek people had for their King and his family that The Queen and the new King were able to follow the hearse on foot through the streets of Athens.
All the soldiers in the photos are all presenting arms and facing inwards toward the Royal Party,  NOT facing outwards towards the crowds.



"Greater love hath no man than when he lays down his life for his country"
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: frederica on June 10, 2009, 11:36:50 AM
I havnt posted here for years, but I found these two pictures of Queen Frederika and Princess Yrieny in India in the late 1970's dressed in Sari's.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3094/3168636523_cb8e45775c.jpg?v=0)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/3168383513_b2f4587009.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 15, 2010, 02:21:51 AM
I hope I am not the only one who do not find the young Frederica a 'beautifulwoman'. The nose is épaté and the smile is clounesque. Please I dlike to hear reasonable comments here...
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2010, 11:19:14 AM
No question she was beautiful & charming. It was her determination that was the problem.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 27, 2010, 02:19:25 PM
Young Pavlos

(http://i43.tinypic.com/110chtg.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 27, 2010, 05:38:27 PM
Thanks ! A great photo of the young prince. Taken in England ?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: mjl1786 on June 11, 2010, 05:06:03 PM
Considering the beastly way Wilhelm II treated his sister Sophie over her converting to Greek Orthodoxy, I wonder what he must have thought when his granddaughter Frederica married Sophie's son Paul. Had Sophie been alive at the time they were married, one must have wondered what she would have thought as well.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 12, 2010, 08:01:35 AM
I think Queen Sophie got along with her niece Viktoria Luise and fond of the Cumberland family (whose husband Constantine was close to his "Aunt Thyra").  I think the last person alive now who had once met the charming old Duchess (Thyra) is Prince Philip (as a boy), Duke of Edinbrugh.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 13, 2010, 09:34:17 AM
What happened to the beautiful emerald necklace ? The one she is wearing on the Time magazine cover. I know the tiara is still owned by the family. The necklace is just spectacular, breathtaking. Do they still own it ? 
For a supposedly poor royal family she certainly had magnificent jewellery.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Vecchiolarry on June 13, 2010, 09:56:29 AM
Hi,

Most of the jewels owned by the Greek Royal Family were inherited and passed down from Queen Olga, who was a Russian Grand Duchess.
When she married George I of Greece, she came with a fortune in jewels from her relatives...

Larry
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 14, 2010, 09:26:40 AM
The emeralds came from Queen Olga, that passed down to George II. He gave it to his wife Elisabetta. She later sold it to King Paul who gave it to Frederica. The big mystery is the big diamond tiara of Queen Sophie. It was last worn by Queen Frederica, but Queen Anne Marie was never seen wearing it...
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 15, 2010, 10:16:54 AM
It has probably been sold, but I have seen pictures of her on the Greek Royal Family site wearing a really magnificent tiara, which could be the same  one ? I may be wrong.
I am fascinated by the necklace though. I convinced myself however that it could only have come from the Russian connection via Queen Olga, so you have confirmed my suspicions. Only the Russians produced jewellery like that.
It would be such a shame if it has been sold.
I think the Greek Royal Family are very reticent about the sale of their family jewels and other items.
The sale at Christies ( I think it was ) in London , of magnificent silver etc, most certainly belonged to the family. Although it was denied by King Constantine. I would imagine that it must be very embarrassing for an ex Royal family to have to sell off their silver.
 
   
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 15, 2010, 10:28:04 AM
Hi!!! well probably, the Tiara was disarmed and they made broochs , earrings and other necklace with the emerals and diamonds

Here Anna Maria with  some of the emeralds

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2v2f7s3.jpg)

Close up of the necklace..

(http://i47.tinypic.com/33m5yt0.jpg)

Brooch

(http://i45.tinypic.com/330uxeg.jpg)

Earrings

(http://i45.tinypic.com/716v4n.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on June 15, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
It has probably been sold, but I have seen pictures of her on the Greek Royal Family site wearing a really magnificent tiara, which could be the same  one ? I may be wrong.
I am fascinated by the necklace though. I convinced myself however that it could only have come from the Russian connection via Queen Olga, so you have confirmed my suspicions. Only the Russians produced jewellery like that.
It would be such a shame if it has been sold.
I think the Greek Royal Family are very reticent about the sale of their family jewels and other items.
The sale at Christies ( I think it was ) in London , of magnificent silver etc, most certainly belonged to the family. Although it was denied by King Constantine. I would imagine that it must be very embarrassing for an ex Royal family to have to sell off their silver.
 


I very much doubt that His Majesty would be forced to "sell off the family silver".
I also doubt that he would lie about it.
Firstly, the Tatoi estate which has been left to ruin by the Republican Goverments was full of the family's belongings, and although His Majesty at one point was allowed to take some possessions out of it, we do not know if the items at Christie's were included.
 Secondly, I do not see any reason why some of these items may not have been items taken by the Greek goverment, with or without the Kings permission.
Thirdly, I hardly doubt Hs Majesty would be forced to sell of "the family silver" so publicly, as he does happen to have some rather wealthy relatives and friends who could have privately bought them, or given him a helping hand, if he needed one, but I am fairly certain he wouldn't have .
Also, in terms of the necklace and the jewellry that Queen Anne Marie is wearing, I have seen a comment somewhere that it has been broken up and used as brooches and bracelets for Princess' Alexia and Theodora, and Crown Princess Marie Chantal.
And finally, if at one point they had been returned to His Majesty after 1974, and he had decided to sell them, due to any reason whatsoever,perhaps it was the NEW owner who sold them??!!



Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on June 16, 2010, 01:02:47 AM
wow! what a beautiful tiara!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 16, 2010, 09:15:31 AM
That one was owned by Elisaveta of Romania, later princess of greece
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 16, 2010, 09:28:06 AM
Yes but the emeralds came from Queen Olga.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 16, 2010, 09:50:59 AM
I think that tiara is certainly the most beautiful I have seen, and compares favourably, and possibly exceeds anything the Queen has.
I am so glad they have kept it.
Imagine if she was wearing Queen Frederika's necklace as well !
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 16, 2010, 09:54:00 AM
Indeed. They are very fine emeralds. Marie Chantal would inheirted it whjen the time comes.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on June 16, 2010, 02:42:48 PM
I think that tiara is certainly the most beautiful I have seen, and compares favourably, and possibly exceeds anything the Queen has.
I am so glad they have kept it.
Imagine if she was wearing Queen Frederika's necklace as well !
The necklace and the tiara are the SAME!
Frederica usually wore it as the necklace with Queen Sophie's big diamond tiara....Anne Marie wears it as a tiara with various diamond necklaces (one of which was given to her elder daughter) and various combinations of the drops from the big diamond pendant/stomacher.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on June 16, 2010, 02:46:33 PM
Hi!!! well probably, the Tiara was disarmed and they made broochs , earrings and other necklace with the emerals and diamonds

Here Anna Maria with  some of the emeralds

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2v2f7s3.jpg)

Close up of the necklace..

(http://i47.tinypic.com/33m5yt0.jpg)

Brooch

(http://i45.tinypic.com/330uxeg.jpg)

Earrings

(http://i45.tinypic.com/716v4n.jpg)
The diamond necklace Anne Marie wears here with Queen Olga's emerald drops was inherited from her paternal grandmother Queen Alexandrine of Denmark and was originally double the length (Anne Maries sister Benedikte has the other half).
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 16, 2010, 03:41:02 PM
Thanks ! It is nice to know Anne Marie recieved jewels from Alexandrine.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 17, 2010, 07:05:37 AM
I thought all along that the emeralds looked the same. So it converts to a necklace as well ?
Fantastic.  Emeralds really suit her. I wonder what else she inherited ?
I think Frederika had rubies as well.
I hate wading through all the posts to find out what happened to things.
Thanks for your answer.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on June 17, 2010, 12:43:01 PM
I thought all along that the emeralds looked the same. So it converts to a necklace as well ?
Fantastic.  Emeralds really suit her. I wonder what else she inherited ?
I think Frederika had rubies as well.
I hate wading through all the posts to find out what happened to things.
Thanks for your answer.
Queen Frederika gave the ruby and emerald sets that had originally belonged to Queen Olga to Anne Marie at the time of her wedding.Anne Marie also has the diamond swirl tiara (that belonged to her maternal grandmother and was originally a wedding present from a Egyptian khedive)which she and both her sisters wore on their wedding days and which she later inherited from her mother Queen Ingrid as well as a diamond and pearl tiara converted from a stomacher that belonged to her other grandmother Queen Alexandrine.
There are various other gems including some superb aquamarines..(including a brooch which is highly reminiscent of that Nicholas gave to Alexandra from Faberge in 1894)and modern diamond and pearl AND  diamond and ruby necklace and earring suites.....A diamond wishbone style necklace was later past on to Princess Alexia.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 17, 2010, 05:40:57 PM
The Ruby set was originally belonged to Princess Olga of Yugoslavia (sister of Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent), who inheirited either from her father or directly from the will of her grandmother and namesake Queen Olga of Greece. Princess Olga later sold the ruby set to Queen Frederike of Greece.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on June 18, 2010, 11:18:54 AM
The Ruby set was originally belonged to Princess Olga of Yugoslavia (sister of Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent), who inheirited either from her father or directly from the will of her grandmother and namesake Queen Olga of Greece. Princess Olga later sold the ruby set to Queen Frederike of Greece.
You keep stating this fact....but we do NOT know for defintely that Olga owned the rubies.....she may have worn them  (as did her sister Marina on at least one occasion they certainly were owned by her parents but that does NOT mean she solely owned them...perhaps a inherited share.WHEN you can produce valid evidence (as you ALWAYS insist other posters should)and can verify yr claim..you can post...till then stop making it...
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2010, 08:00:10 AM
I was told by John Wimbles who know the Greek Royal Family well that Olga owned the set. Geoffrey Munn also concurred on the sale to Queen Frederica. Need I say more ?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on June 19, 2010, 11:06:58 AM
I was told by John Wimbles who know the Greek Royal Family well that Olga owned the set. Geoffrey Munn also concurred on the sale to Queen Frederica. Need I say more ?
Yes you must because you are ALWAYS so insistant...AND  Geoffrey Munn who I have met on several ocassions is too discreet to mention things.
Also my late friend the Cartier historian and Christie's europe chairman told me he believed that the set had been sold by the estate of Princess Nicholas...AND that Olga had inherited a diamond rivere from her grandmother.A sale in recent years (long after Hans untimely death in 1988) proved  that Olga indeed had owned one of her grandmothers rivere's.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2010, 11:16:09 AM
That is what I said. Olga got it from her father or grandmother. That makes perefect sense since she already have the Cartier Tiara from her mother and the big tiara from her husband Prince Paul. She does not need to borrow another parure that does NOT belong to her. The sale to Queen Frederika of Greece was also told to me by another sourse close to the Kents and double confirmed by Ricardo Matoes Sainz Medrano (who wrote books on Queen Sofia of Spain, Frederika's daughter) who knew a lot about Royal Jewels and wrote articles on the old Royalty Digest. With so much evidence I think that pretty much confirms it. If not ALL these people must be lying.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on June 19, 2010, 03:55:06 PM
That is what I said. Olga got it from her father or grandmother. That makes perefect sense since she already have the Cartier Tiara from her mother and the big tiara from her husband Prince Paul. She does not need to borrow another parure that does NOT belong to her. The sale to Queen Frederika of Greece was also told to me by another sourse close to the Kents and double confirmed by Ricardo Matoes Sainz Medrano (who wrote books on Queen Sofia of Spain, Frederika's daughter) who knew a lot about Royal Jewels and wrote articles on the old Royalty Digest. With so much evidence I think that pretty much confirms it. If not ALL these people must be lying.
That is NOT what you said....you said and keep saying it was soley Olga's when she might just as easily have shared the proceeds of the sale...ie her mothers estate...with her sisters (oe their heirs) and why would Marina need to borrow it from her either.....she had at least 5 tiara's of her own....you are always right and never wrong..but you expect every one else to verify a post a 100 times over....DO NOT  comment on any of my posts again and I will ignore your endless mundane postings for postings sake!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2010, 07:45:28 PM
Whatever  ::)

I think the emerald set and the ruby set are the main parures of the Royal House of Greece. Princess Marie Chantel appears to have her own tiara, and
I expect the soon to be be Princess Nicholas of Greece to go for something modern as well.  :) The mystery is the big tiara that Queen Frederike wore and inherited from Queen Sophie. Some say it it was sold by the Queen, but there is  indication that it might be in storage.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 21, 2010, 06:12:25 AM
Well whatever the arguments are, the Greek Royal Family must be quite grateful for their Russian connections. They are definately not short of magnificent jewellery. I think most European Royal Families who had Romanov connections either by marriage or otherwise ended up with a shower of wonderful jewels.
Marie Chantel for her fathers billions, has a miserable, poor looking little tiara. One would think with all that money she could have made more of an effort.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on June 21, 2010, 06:22:06 AM
Eric,
The Greek Royal Family does not sell its heirlooms,


Well whatever the arguments are, the Greek Royal Family must be quite grateful for their Russian connections. They are definately not short of magnificent jewellery. I think most European Royal Families who had Romanov connections either by marriage or otherwise ended up with a shower of wonderful jewels.
Marie Chantel for her fathers billions, has a miserable, poor looking little tiara. One would think with all that money she could have made more of an effort.
Isn't there a rule somewhere about gentlemen and their manners?
Would you like to tell that to her husband or father-in-law?
I would suggest that you remove that comment!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 21, 2010, 08:59:04 AM
i dont think that fringe tiara is a miserable poor looking tiara. Simple, yes, but awesome

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2qi2stc.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on June 21, 2010, 09:12:11 AM
i dont think that fringe tiara is a miserable poor looking tiara. Simple, yes, but awesome

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2qi2stc.jpg)
The tiara is a particulary fine example of a very popular style.....perhaps not on par with Queen Alexandra's or the Liechtenstein example but not a paltry example either..
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 21, 2010, 11:50:04 AM
That is not true. The Greek Royal family does sell its heirlooms. There was a big sale on Prince Peter of Greece's heirlooms in Athens years ago, and another on the sapphire and diamond set that belonged to Princess Eugenie of Greece that just recently went on to the block (togather with a diamond and pearl brooch that belonged to Queen Olga). My friend Arturo Beeche bought objects that belonged to Prince Nicholas of Greece and Queen Olga. The list could go on...
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on June 21, 2010, 04:49:51 PM
From sources on the jewels boards it was a wedding present from her parents.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on June 21, 2010, 05:08:26 PM
Hi,

Maybe Marie Chantel doesn't want another tiara...
After all, she lives in New York City and there aren't many reasons to wear a tiara there, even if your in-laws are greek Royalty...

It was probably more de rigeur in the old days to show up in Europe in a tiara, but even there now, it's not often seen...

Larry
Larry,
didnt they hold a big party at their house in London for the Kings birthday last month?
They live in London, at least most of the time.
Crown Prince Pavlos' business is based in New York, yes, but its not hard to deal on the internet or the phone these days!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 23, 2010, 07:44:46 AM
I have not seen her wearing this tiara before, only a very underwhelming one which was not exciting by any standards. This looks like an old piece and in the Russian Kokoshnik style. Are you sure it is not an inherited ? Looks very Russian to me.

Beautiful, and so is she.
Ilias, are you accusing me of not being a gentleman ?

This is a discussion forum, and the wonderful thing is that one can sometimes " stir the pot ' to get a reaction.
I suspect from your posts that you are Greek, and I assure that I am an ardent "fan" of the Greek Royal family, who have always been victims of Greek politics, which I am sure you will agree, is a very bumpy road. ( Even now )

I think King Constantine is a true gentleman and a victim of so many fabrications and false accusations. The fact that he is not a bitter man is a true reflection of his courage and wonderful character.

I truly wish the Greeks would take him back as their King, I think he has so much to offer his country. He could really make a positive difference. 
 
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: grandduchessella on June 23, 2010, 08:48:40 AM
I have not seen her wearing this tiara before, only a very underwhelming one which was not exciting by any standards. This looks like an old piece and in the Russian Kokoshnik style. Are you sure it is not an inherited ? Looks very Russian to me.


 

There are a lot of experts on these various forums, some with very good connections in the royal & jewel fields. All that I've read from them seem to indicate it was a wedding present from her parents. I think the Greek fringe tiaras are accounted for? The style might have been picked to resemble the heirloom ones and reflect the heritage of the family.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 23, 2010, 12:01:20 PM
Yes. The style is old and maybe an heirloom from someone. However it did not seem to come out of the Greek Royal Family. The Russian fringe was a popular style and quite a number had been made by Cartier, Brolin among the many jewelers of the day.  :)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 24, 2010, 07:16:38 AM
Yes this style of tiara was popular, it seems as if almost every Royal family had one. I think the one the Queen owns is the best example I have seen.
Anyway, we are way off topic here are'nt we ?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on June 24, 2010, 07:44:32 AM
Was Queen Frederika of Greece wealthy in her own right ? The Greek Royal family was not very wealthy compared to many other Royals in Europe. At least, according to the books I have read. The reason I am asking this question is because in 1954 ( as everyone here probably knows ) she arranged what must have been a very expensive cruise, in a luxurious passenger liner called the Agamemnon. She invited 100 Royals on this 13 day cruise as her guests. Unless of course the ship was lent to her by a wealthy shipowner. She never appeared to be short of money during her lifetime. Perhaps she inherited from her family ?
She certainly had style and taste and seemed to enjoy being Queen of Greece, and made the most of it, despite her regular disagreements with Greek politicians. Given the historical and ongoing political problems in Greece, she would probably have had the same issues had she been Queen 50 years earlier, or even later.
I think she was great, but overstepped the mark and became unpopular because she was too outspoken, and perhaps medled in things a bit too often.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 24, 2010, 09:56:25 AM
I don't think as a Princess of Hannover she was "that" well off. However Frederica was friendly with businessmen in Greece and I guess they funded her projects.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: royal_netherlands on July 21, 2010, 05:07:19 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Frederikaemeralds.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: royal_netherlands on July 21, 2010, 05:10:16 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/QueenFrederika1959.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/QueenFrederikasmilling.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 21, 2010, 09:38:56 PM
The lovely necklace that her daughter Princess Irene later wore as a tiara. I wonder if she had kept it after her mother'sdeath.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: kmerov on August 12, 2010, 05:26:39 PM
Queen Frederika with big hair. The little baby is Alexia.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/greekdanishfamily.jpg)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: ashdean on August 16, 2010, 10:24:30 PM
The lovely necklace that her daughter Princess Irene later wore as a tiara. I wonder if she had kept it after her mother'sdeath.
The necklace was sold and turned up again in a sale  (Sothebys or Christies) several years ago in Italy.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 18, 2010, 03:28:36 PM
Fredericke and King Umberto of Italy

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3884/22775211.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/22775211.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on August 19, 2010, 06:53:38 AM
I think that poor Queen Frederika had to "keep her tongue' sometimes because she was critised by so many people, both politicians and the press. The British Royal family have been doing this for years. Turning a blind eye and keeping silent in the face of criticism is sometimes a very poweful thing to do. It throws your critics into confusion because they are not getting any reaction.
To react can be construed in many negative ways.  Perhaps after the death of her husband Queen Frederika felt she was free to express herself a bit more, and it worked against her. Specially in Greece, where the political situation has always been like a stick of dynamite with a very short fuse. Ready to explode at at any moment. And it frequently does. My point is that I think she sometimes just had enough and let rip and said it as it was. Not a bad thing, but in Greece I think not good.
I think the Greek politicians expected her to look pretty, have no opinions about anything, open hospitals, launch ships and keep her mouth shut.
 
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on August 19, 2010, 07:05:04 AM
She called it as she saw it, and she wasnt prepred to let the politicians take advantage of the people and the Nation.
It's a pity she isnt here today.

Long live her son and grandsons, their country definately needs them today!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: PAVLOV on August 20, 2010, 05:19:33 AM
Yes I agree with you, I think she would have brought them to their senses very quickly.
Perhaps she lived in the wrong time.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on August 20, 2010, 07:21:39 AM
She lived in the right time, its a question of whether her people are intelligent enough to present her son and grandsons the opportunity to serve the People and Nation of Greece again.
And of course, whether they will seize the opportunity.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 20, 2010, 08:24:16 AM
Yes. However Queen Frederica was a woman of strong opinions. During the negociations of the wedding of Juan Carlos & Sophie of Greece, Frederica had a suggestion for everything and tried to clamp it up to the Spanish side, Queen Ena was heard to say to her "Freddy dear, you seem to forget that I am a Queen as well !".
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 22, 2010, 01:52:43 PM
Widow Fredericke

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/4605/75262663.jpg) (http://img607.imageshack.us/i/75262663.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 22, 2010, 01:54:38 PM
She looked like Marie Callas in Medea...
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 08, 2011, 09:01:34 AM
Frederica with King Haakon VI of norway arriving to Queen Elisabeth II`s wedding reception


(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1610/withhaakonfred.jpg) (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/withhaakonfred.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Clemence on July 19, 2011, 01:51:34 PM
My consort had met her as a child. She certainly possessed all the public relations attributes that fit a queen! (unlike her husband who, even as a king, could hardly speak the language of his subjects).


never in all my life heard of king paul unable to speek greek! do we have any proof for this?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 20, 2011, 02:48:15 PM
I think those are the kinds of statements that Queen Frederika made that did not endear her to some people.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Clemence on July 21, 2011, 06:59:00 AM
I think those are the kinds of statements that Queen Frederika made that did not endear her to some people.

are you suggesting it could be the queen to say such a thing of her husband!? even more weird!
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 21, 2011, 04:50:16 PM
Well...Frederike was known to be quite bossy and her words sometimes do shock some people I am told...So not too weird.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Clemence on July 22, 2011, 12:59:33 PM
well, I still wish to know more, have you ever read something relative yourself?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 22, 2011, 05:01:22 PM
I remember there is a clip in which she talks about how strong a woman she was and how she fights (shades of Princess Diana in it).
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: carl fraley on July 24, 2011, 06:43:42 AM
IMO and i'm not greek but as HM King Constantine has stated more than once, and even King George II, and going back even further HM King Constantine I, all of the depositions have been illegal and against the greek constitution, and the greek people have suffered every single time with out the Head of State (THe Sovereign) to Stabilize and be the continuity of gvt in Greece.    This time the cycle has just lasted longer than previously.  that King paul didn't speak greek?.. is ludicrous.   HM Queen Fredricka was maligned just as Queen Sophia was (maybe with a lil more reason ) but Sophia was maligned for nothing more than being the Kaisers sister , and remember Tatoi was set ablaze supposedly bc they thought there was a "Secret telegraph machine" to the Kaiser there" , and Queen Frederica was the Kaisers Granddaughter, and most people thought she interfered with politics.

like i said IMO  the Republicans, communists, whichever have run greece into i believe you call that complete and total bankruptcy...

King Constantine I firmly exercised his monarchial perogatives and the corrupt politicians exiled him, King Paul wouldn't tolerate any enroachment on his perogatives either.  THe communits had to villify HM the Queen
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 24, 2011, 07:56:06 AM
It didn't help that Queen Frederike was "so strong" unlike Queen Sophie & Queen Olga.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Clemence on July 24, 2011, 01:15:13 PM
It didn't help that Queen Frederike was "so strong" unlike Queen Sophie & Queen Olga.

or simply stronger than her husband perhaps.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 24, 2011, 01:23:03 PM
I think so. It is alright to be able to support your husband, but to push yourself forward is not helpful. Queen Frederike was not heeding the example of her great grandmother (Kaiserin Friedrich, enemy of Bismark), who was viewed as politically ambitious and was vilified by politicians and the press. Even in this country, Hillary Clinton was made unwelcome when they viewed her role being too political as first lady.   
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Clemence on November 05, 2011, 11:44:01 AM
http://www.retromaniax.gr/vb/showthread.php?20665-%D4%E1-%C1%F0%FC%EA%F1%F5%F6%E1-%CC%E9%E1%F2-%CC%EF%ED%E1%F7%DE%F2-1982&p=321567&viewfull=1#post321567 (http://www.retromaniax.gr/vb/showthread.php?20665-%D4%E1-%C1%F0%FC%EA%F1%F5%F6%E1-%CC%E9%E1%F2-%CC%EF%ED%E1%F7%DE%F2-1982&p=321567&viewfull=1#post321567)

could the lady in the photo behind the nun in the 3rd frame be Queen Federica?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: THERRY on November 06, 2011, 10:17:12 AM
??? I don't see nothing  :-[
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Clemence on November 06, 2011, 11:29:28 AM
http://www.retromaniax.gr/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=39736&d=1320501018

the link seems to work OK for me.

Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Gabriella on November 06, 2011, 02:39:05 PM
Tried both links. The first connects with a page that is full with greek scriptures, the other shows nothing.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on December 13, 2011, 12:18:16 AM
My consort had met her as a child. She certainly possessed all the public relations attributes that fit a queen! (unlike her husband who, even as a king, could hardly speak the language of his subjects).


never in all my life heard of king paul unable to speek greek! do we have any proof for this?

That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever read. Ther is numerous audio(s) of His Majesty speaking perfect Greek.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 13, 2011, 08:38:06 AM
I think his parents made sure he did.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on December 13, 2011, 03:09:28 PM
All parents teach their children their native tongue.
This is just maicious rumour mongering.
Kiing Konstantines children had been educated by some of the best people in Athens, and all the boys had served as military cadets in all the services. It is IMPOSSIBLE for them to not be able to speak the language properly.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 13, 2011, 05:23:36 PM
I think it was another example of Frederike's gaffe.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Ilias_of_John on December 16, 2011, 12:32:37 AM
My consort had met her as a child. She certainly possessed all the public relations attributes that fit a queen! (unlike her husband who, even as a king, could hardly speak the language of his subjects).


never in all my life heard of king paul unable to speek greek! do we have any proof for this?

I ont think its Queen Frederica who uttered the statement Eric,(unlike her husband etc), someone else said it.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 16, 2011, 04:31:02 PM
Yes. Although it would be something people will put on Frederike. I cringe when I saw the interview of her claiming to be "A strong woman...etc" It was as bad as Diana's years later.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: carl fraley on February 09, 2014, 12:18:47 AM
i saw this on youtube (or saw a brief intro clip) and then came across a facebook page as well .  Anyone have any info on where you can get it?

http://youtu.be/ZGBrRgwusHg

as well as the fb link

https://www.facebook.com/KingPavlosDoc

any info/insight??
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Kalafrana on February 09, 2014, 12:56:54 PM
According to another thread, when Elizabeth of Romania married George III she found life difficult with his family because they all spoke Greek among themselves and she felt left out. In this context, it would be rather surprising if George,s brother Paul couldn't speak Greek.

According to Philip Eade's 'Young Prince Philip', Andrew of Greece far preferred Greek to any other language.

It is always possible that Paul and Frederica preferred to speak German together.

Ann
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 10, 2014, 11:13:55 PM
That would indeed be natural for them...apart from English.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: carl fraley on February 17, 2014, 03:30:22 AM
the statement that King Paul spoke NO greek is ludicrous.  He use to Broadcast to the Greek People during WWII when he was with the Greek Gvt in exile from Cairo and London.
i will have to go back through my book but i have read that they spoke German after they married b/c The Queen Didn't know greek yet.  I can't find the Source Right now but I emailed the webmaster at the Greek ROyal Website so maybe I will get an answer. just fyi .. King George I spoke Greek, Danish, English, German and French and would often in mid conversation switch from 1 to the other depending on who was present.  on 3/18/1913 "he told his sons in English (which none of the Greek officers present understood that in october he would celebrate his Golden Jubilee and that he would take advantage of that and abdicate".  ("Kings of Hellenes by John Van Der Kiste , page 74).  Also, Queen Frederica ,In her book, she says she spoke German and English to Pavlos, German in person and English over the phone and in letters. She also states that they spoke Greek to the children,  However, Sofia's German is flawless and her English has a German accent, so I think that's the language she heard from her mother as a little girl.
also, just FYI, there are tons of Youtube Videos of HM King Constantine II, HM Queen Sophia, and HRH PRincess Irine speaking Fluent Greek on Youtube so just throwing that out there.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Превед on February 17, 2014, 07:52:40 AM
Indeed. It would have been funny if male members of the Greek RF didn't speak Greek at a time when loads of schoolboys in German and Russian Gymnasien / гимназии / γυμνάσια, French lycées / λύκεια and British public schools / σχολεία struggled through Homer and Thucydides in the original Greek, while at least Protestant students of theology learnt Greek in order to read the New Testament in the original.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: DNAgenie on February 17, 2014, 08:10:06 PM
There is a vast difference between the modern Greek language (particularly spoken Greek) and Ancient Greek as learnt by schoolboys. The Greek RF had to learn modern Greek in order to converse with their subjects.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 18, 2014, 11:06:57 AM
That makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Превед on February 18, 2014, 12:49:36 PM
There is a vast difference between the modern Greek language (particularly spoken Greek) and Ancient Greek as learnt by schoolboys. The Greek RF had to learn modern Greek in order to converse with their subjects.

Yes, of course, but both varities are Greek. BTW since Greece has experienced "linguistic civil war" in the same way as Norway (where another Glücksborger, King Haakon VII, always spoke Danish), I as a Norwegian suspect that these accusations against the Greek RF may have had something to do with these nuances.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 19, 2014, 09:30:58 AM
I think the language between Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) are more in common than Greek. 
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Kalafrana on February 19, 2014, 11:10:25 AM
That point is so obvious it really isn't worth making.

I think we have now established that King Paul did speak Greek perfectly well.

Ann
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Превед on February 19, 2014, 11:53:29 AM
I think the language between Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) are more in common than Greek.  

Not if you take into account various highly divergent and archaïc dialects in all three Scandinavian countries, including Finland-Swedish. Danophone Maria Fyodorovna managing to converse with Swedophones in Finland speaking rather archaïc Swedish dialects can probably be compared to a modern Greek reading ancient Greek. You need education and exposure, otherwise the comprehension will be very low.

Some telling examples with the words for "king":
Modern Greek: βασιλιάς
Ancient Greek: βασιλεύς

Modern Danish and Norwegian: konge
Archaïc Danish: konning
Archaïc Norwegian: kongje
Modern Swedish: kung
Archaïc Swedish: konung
Old Norse: konungr
Icelandic: konungur

Of course the most obvious parallell is between the modern Scandinavian languages and Old Norse / Icelandic, but the way I understand it the difference between Ancient and Modern Greek is smaller than between these. (Although Katharevousa certainly can be compared to modern, puristic Icelandic, which with its many neologisms is less comprehensible to modern Scandinavians than Old Norse is.) Greek was less influenced by Turkish, Italian and Slavic than the Scandinavian languages were by Low German, whose influence on the modern Scandinavian languages can be compared to that of French on modern English.

Note for instance that "language" (a French word in English) is γλώσσα in both Ancient and Modern Greek, while in modern Scandinavian it's språk / sprog (from Low German spraak, compare German Sprache), quite unlike Old Norse tunga, (which still means "tongue", though.)
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 20, 2014, 09:58:09 AM
Thanks for pointing out the difference. Appreciate it.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: carl fraley on March 04, 2014, 03:39:51 AM
Personally, and this is my opinion, the Kings of the Hellenes have always been the scapegoat for crooked and selfish politicians.  King George navigated it pretty well but after his assination the Greek Politicians had , had almost 50 years to get their groundwork.  When King Constantine ascended the throne, they thought he was going to be a cipher, they thought wrong.  Both Queen Sophie and King George II were much maligned because
1.) Sophie was born a princess of Prussia  and was british at heart
2.) King George II, was trained with the Prussian Military
but King Constantine excercising his Perogatives and ya he stretched it but he was correct . 

King Alexander said it best (or this quote was atributed to him) When brought to his attention that he Signed a document without reading it he quickly replied back "My father read first and then signed and he's in exile, my grandfather signed first and then read , and he died a King".


ok long story short is what i am asking everyone is do you think if King Constantine II had been a little older and more experienced how things might have been diferent.  King Paul seemed to be very adept at handling the politicians and IMO was a great example of a Modern Constitutional Monarch.

2.) Do you think in 60 years time history will exhonerate the Glucksborg dynasty in Greece as the Truth comes to light?
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 04, 2014, 10:57:30 PM
I think the Glucksborg dynasty gave more to its people than the Romanovs or Hapsburgs. They suffer much more than those two. If they were guilty, it was blindsightedness, they were never rich nor powerful than the monarchs of Russia or Iran.
Title: The Fate of the Dynasty
Post by: carl fraley on March 08, 2014, 08:41:42 PM
In the new Documentary on King Paul one guy and i don't know who he is (?) states that had king paul  lived 10 more years the fate of the  Dynasty would have been different.  Anyone else have any statements to that effect?  

Actual constructive comments please..  NO bashing of the Royal House please.


http://youtu.be/dLsefeAnY-M
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2014, 12:32:29 AM
Maybe less of a say in politics by Queen Frederica. Lot of blame on her aggressive ways.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: bongo on March 10, 2014, 01:26:00 AM
He could have been king another 50 years and it wouldn't have made an ounce of difference. The fact he and the deeply reactionary and endlessly politically meddling Frederika ignored the advice of the prime minister and made the state visit to London in 1963 just shows how arrogant and out of touch they were. What constitutional monarch defies the wishes of their prime minister? And of course, the London demonstrations were the start of the further instability. The fact that the name of Fredericka is still radioactive in Greece today shows the depth of the schism.
Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: bongo on March 10, 2014, 05:04:38 AM
I checked what the Greek press has said about the documentary.

"completely untenable royal propaganda... that is odd with the facts"

"Paul was spineless... Frederica became the real boss....it inaugurated an era of overt interventions of the dynasty in public affairs. The aspirations, political and economic of interests of the Glucksburgs were proclaimed in law.

First and foremost because he was the king of the civil war. No initiative is marked those years to stop the anguish. The royal court was fully aligned with the Americans.

Two. After the end of the civil war the relentless persecution of any non-"nationalist".

Three. Executions and killings for political reasons. All committed in the name of the king.




Title: Re: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2014, 10:02:02 PM
I think King Paul remained popular while most of the blame went to the power hungry queen.
Title: King Paul & Queen Frederika (nee Hannover) of Greece
Post by: Lucien on March 15, 2014, 03:21:21 AM
The extended Greek Royal Family and many guests attended the 50th anniversary of the death of HM King Paul in Athens and at the Royal cemetery at Tatoi.

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=05-03-2014%20Athene

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=06-03-2014%20Spanish

courtesy PPE