Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Windsors => Topic started by: JM on April 24, 2004, 03:23:09 PM

Title: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: JM on April 24, 2004, 03:23:09 PM
Did Victoria ever find out about her illegitimate half-sister? What happend to her half-sister?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Thierry on April 25, 2004, 05:56:07 AM
Quote
I wish there would be a book that compiled all the correspondence between the Hesses and the Queen - many extracts of letters from dear Ella and Victoria are in "Grand Duchess Elizabeth" by Hugo Mager, and "Louis and Victoria" by Richard Hough - as well as those from dear Alix in a Lifelong Passion, and the letters from the Queen herself.


Dear Elisa,

There is another wonderful book : "Advice to a Grand-Daughter : Letters from Queen Victoria to Princess Victoria of Hesse", edited by Richard Hough. I warmly recommend it !
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: JM on April 25, 2004, 09:56:03 AM
Quote


Do you mean Princess Feodora of Leiningen, Countess of Hohenlohe Langenburg?
She and her brother Karl were the children from the first marriage of Queen Victoria's mother, Viktoria of Kent.



No, I don't mean Feodora.

Victoria's father had an illegitimate child in 1789 with an actress, Adelaide Dubus.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on May 14, 2004, 11:49:12 PM
All the Hesse children seem to have been close not only to Victoria but also to various aunts & uncles. Ernst wrote of his Aunt Louise that she was one of the most beautiful creatures he'd ever seen, even into old age. Victoria lived with some of her older aunts in the Aunt Heap at Kensington Palace after she was widowed, I believe. Ella wrote lovely letters to her dear Grandmama, though not as many as Victoria. Leopold visited a great deal and was a great favorite (see Charlotte Zeepvat's bio of him) and his death cast a bit of a pall over Victoria's wedding. All the children were devastated. Beatrice spent a lot of time with them (Victoria even toying with trying to change British law to perhaps allow Beatrice to marry her widowed brother-in-law) and of course achieved a closer relation with Victoria as sister-in-law. The Edinburgh's were very fond of Louis Battenberg as her served with Alfred, but I don't know how the Hessians saw them, especially when Ernest & Victoria Melita's marriage began to fail. While Vicky was very close to Alix and Irene would marry her son Henry, she could often be quite tart when referring to some of them, especially when Ella spurned William's advances. They did visit Berlin a good deal though before Alice's death. I can't really think of anything with Helena or Arthur.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Joanna on June 04, 2004, 10:57:29 PM
Can anyone tell me third and fourth words of Victoria's handwriting? I  understand other words after much huh  ??? but two words defeat me !!!!

Joanna
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: DOMOVOII on June 05, 2004, 09:34:42 AM
"where it now stands; Princess Marie Victoria of Hesse it should be Princess Marie of Hesse        and where it is Prcss Alice Victoria of Hesse it should be Princess Alix of Hesse"

Hope this helps.... she wrote a lot like I do!!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RomanovFan on July 20, 2004, 06:42:16 PM
Quote
Did Victoria ever find out about her illegitimate half-sister? What happend to her half-sister?


I think Victoria knew her sister existed, but I don't know much more than that. Her name was Feodora....but I also have a question: Feodora was her father's illegitimate child right?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Janet_W. on July 20, 2004, 06:44:30 PM
Wrong!

She was her mother's child via an earlier marriage.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on July 26, 2004, 08:30:47 PM
The Dss of Kent (the Dowager Princess of Leiningen), brought her elder children from Germany when she accompanied her husband ( in her eighth
month of confinement), to England. Her daughter, Princess Feodora (Fidi) came with her. In fact Louise Lehzen, later baroness was governess to
Feodora and made the same trip with her charge. Feodora and the young Victoria were not raised apart and Victoria even sat in on her half sister's lessons. In most biographies of QV there are plenty of references to the infant/young Victoria and her half sister doing various things together. Feodora would tell Victoria in later years about servants that "went down to the ground" before her as an infant. Prince Charles of Leiningen, son of the dss and heir (the widowed Pss of
L, was also Regent of Leiningen. A title she later relinquished after her husband's death and her decision to remain in England), did not make the trip  with his mother and sister to England, but did visit. His
position was different as the young prince was heir to his late father's throne and would soon come into his own. It would have been impolitic for PC to go off to England so he remained with his own household
to continue his education/upbringing in Germany. The was a bio of Feodora published Queen Victoria's Sister and her grandson or great-grandson married QV's granddaughter Alexandra of Coburg. Feodora, possessed of a sweeter nature than her sister, also acted as a soothing voice for her sister, advising her to "lighten up" (so to speak) with regards to her children and their upbringing.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on July 26, 2004, 08:35:17 PM
Some added info about QV's other sibling, her elder half-brother:
Queen Victoria's half-brother, Carl, 3rd Prince of Leiningen, made a marriage that, while not a morganatic marriage to Countess Marie von Klebelsberg (even though Marie did not come from a princely family)
was a marriage that did not meet with the approval of family members.  Carl was the head of the house,
and thus was in the position to accept his own marriage.  The marriage took place at Amorbach, the seat of Carl's tiny principality) on February 13, 1829 but would end in divorce. Although Carl and Victoria maintained cordial and familial relations, they were not nearly as close as Victoria and Carl's younger sister, Feodora, who was married to another mediatized prince, The Prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg. Carl - the brother of the Queen of the UK, as well as the nephew of the Belgian king - could have made a great match.  But he fell in love with the penniless Countess in Coburg.  She was hardly an eligible bride, but he loved her.   Carl's grandmother, Duchess Augusta of Coburg, blamed her former daughter-in-law, Louise (former wife of Duke Ernst II of Coburg, and mother of Prince Albert) for the introduction.  It was Louise who met the  Klebelsberg family when she and Duke Ernst had visited Franzensbad.  Louise had largely adopted the young woman - but did have her doubts about Marie who became her lady in waiting. When
Louise left Coburg following the failure of her own marriage, Marie transferred to the staff of the Dowager Duchess Augusta who futilely hoped that her grandson's infatuation had ceased. The Dowager did intervene - and Carl and Feodora went to  England for a time -- there were discussions for Feodora to marry the Duke of Sussex's son, Augustus 'Este.  But even in England, Carl could not forget Marie - and after his return to Germany,he "unwisely" married the unsuitable countess.The couple had two sons - but the marriage soon broke down -and ended in divorce in June 1848.  The "fair and feckless" marie had become involved with a man known only (through Prince Albert's letters) as "her cavalier, Mr. Spare."In a letter to his brother, Duke Ernst II, Albert wrote "Marie Leiningen is in Rome and she lives in a poor lodging. Mr.Spare, her cavalier, married her lady's maid.  A sad result of the theory of life which Charles (Carl) always preached, that
life was for enjoyment adn that the wisest thing was not to consider anyone else."
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on July 28, 2004, 03:42:13 PM
Anna Feodora Auguste Charlotte Wilhelmine (Amorbach 7 Dec 1807-Baden-Baden 23 Apr 1872); m.Kensington Palace 18 Feb 1828 Ernst Fst zu Hohenlohe-Langenburg (Langenburg 7 May 1794-Baden-Baden 12 Apr 1860)

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RomanovFan on July 28, 2004, 08:43:57 PM
Quote

She was her mother's child via an earlier marriage.


If Feodora was Victoria's half-sister, would her title have been Duchess of England (something like it) after Victoria became queen, or no because she was related through their mother only?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on July 28, 2004, 09:24:31 PM
No, she wouldn't have had any British title since she had no blood ties save QV. QV could've, if she chose, have bestowed a title on her, I suppose, but since Feodora 'Feo' married before QV became queen, it was a moot point.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marquis Green on July 29, 2004, 11:09:31 AM
I think that it should be kept in mind that Edward, Duke of Kent did have a long-term mistress, Madame St. Vincent. Like a few other of the Hanover brothers, Edward is said to have had illegitimate children. The person who stated before about QV's half-sibling was correct. She has other siblings besides the Leiningen's.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on September 02, 2004, 11:24:06 AM
Edward Duke of Kent's mistress was called Mme de Saint Laurent, was she not?
I believe that he was sincerely attached to her; however this did not stop him from ditching her when the royal marriage race began.
Does anyone know if there were children from this relationship?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on September 02, 2004, 11:37:09 AM
Just as a point of interest, Edward Duke of Kent had lived with Mme de Saint Laurent for TWENTY SEVEN YEARS before he married Victoria's mother.
In spite of having a yearly income of £24,000 (a huge sum in those days) he was hopelessly in debt and hoped that he would benefit upon his marriage in such a way as to remedy this situation.  He also needed to pay off Mme de Saint Laurent, who in his own words "had never been an actress" and who had come to him in good faith with only a small income from him of £100 in the beginning (this later rose to £400, then £1000 and back to £400 when his debts became pressing - small pickings for a royal mistress!)
In the end he got an increase of £6000 per year (less than he hoped) and Mme de Saint Laurent retired into the shadows.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: jehan on September 02, 2004, 03:21:39 PM
Quote
Edward Duke of Kent's mistress was called Mme de Saint Laurent, was she not?
I believe that he was sincerely attached to her; however this did not stop him from ditching her when the royal marriage race began.
Does anyone know if there were children from this relationship?


I do not believe that there were any children- none are recorded anyway.  Occasionally someone comes forward claiming to be a descendant of the relationship (one "Robert Wood" comes to mind, among others).  But if there were any, surely they would be mentioned in contemporary sources?  After all his brothers had illegitimate children, and they were not objects of shame and secrecy (re the FitzClarences and FitzGeorges).  Some say that Victoria had any mention of a child expunged from records once she succeeded to the throne, in case her legitimacy was questioned, but again this is highly unlikely- first of all there is no record of of a marriage, and if there were one, it would be in contravention of the royal marriages act anyways, so not legal.  Secondly, in a 27 year relationship, surely there would be a reference in a letter  or a court document somewhere which would mention a child of the Duke of Kent- the arm of a nineteenth century monarch could not reach everywhere!  And Mme St Laurent survived the Duke for years- if she had had a child, surely she would have mentioned it!  So any claim of a child, I would greet with skepticism.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Anthony Chapman on September 03, 2004, 06:50:10 AM
I've come across this interesting debate about Edward, Duke of Kent and his possible illegitimate offspring by Julie de St Laurent quite by chance. I don't know your website but I'll pitch in my contribution by relating that my great great grandmother, Mary Anne FitzEdward, is rumoured in my family to be Edward's daughter. We've been unable to trace her birth registration but from her marriage and death certificates know that she was born c. 1806, came from Clapham, Surrey and her parentage was unrecorded. If Julie was born (as I've read) in 1760 then it's most unlikely she could have borne Mary Anne, but if that date is inaccurate (after all, Edward was born 1767) then it might be more feasible. For a number of reasons I've a suspicion that our Mary Anne had an unknown mother. I also suspect that I'm not going to be able to prove or disprove our family legend. But the prefix of 'Fitz' in those days was indicative of royal bastardy.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on December 15, 2004, 02:07:14 PM
I think that it should be kept in mind that Edward, Duke of Kent did have a long-term mistress, Madame St. Vincent. Like a few other of the Hanover brothers, Edward is said to have had illegitimate children. The person who stated before about QV's half-sibling was correct. She has other siblings besides the Leiningen's.[/quote]


The Duke of Kent's mistress was Julie St. Laurent, and they probably did not have any children.  In fact, JUlie did not have children by any of her lovers.   It would have been unusual for Kent to not acknowledge an illegitimate child, as his brothers acknowledged theirs.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: otmafan on December 16, 2004, 07:26:18 PM
(http://www.btinternet.com/~sbishop100/feo.jpg)

Another portrait of Princess Feodora
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on December 16, 2004, 09:58:52 PM
[ For a number of reasons I've a suspicion that our Mary Anne had an unknown mother. I also suspect that I'm not going to be able to prove or disprove our family legend. But the prefix of 'Fitz' in those days was indicative of royal bastardy.[/quote]

It would have been unlikely for Edward and Julie to not have acknowledged children, as this would not have been the pattern in the family.  His brothers didn't hide their illegitimate issue.  Julie was the mistress of several men during her lifetime, and she had no children by any of these men.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on December 18, 2004, 06:17:02 PM
Nevertheless that is an interesting little tale about Mary Anne FitzEdward - one never knows.
Just out of interest, did anyone ever get to the bottom of what happened to Hannah Lightfoot, the Quakeress who was reputed to have married George III in secret?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: MarquisAnthony on December 23, 2004, 10:51:23 AM
I have really been waiting for along time about information on Madame St. Laurent and the Duke of Kent. The likelihood of children was very high. I wonder if QV would have had any relationship with them and how she viewed illegitimate children. She was pretty open to morganic marriages with the aristocracy such as the Battenburgs and the Tecks, I wonder how she would have viewed her relatives like the FitzClarences, William IV's flock.

Excellent point Martyn on the lack of acknowledgement from Madame St. Laurent of any children. Surely she would have said something. Make an appeal for a pension ;)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on December 23, 2004, 05:18:37 PM
As Marlene has previously pointed out, Julie de Saint Laurent had no children from any of her liaisons; had there been any issue from her involvement with the Duke of Kent, they would surely have been acknowledged, in the same way that his brothers acknowledged their progeny.
I really can't imagine how Victoria would have dealt with that; we do know that for a time the wife and family of her cousin the Duke of Cambridge 'did not exist', as this was another morganatic marriage.  But, having said that, if it had been her own half-brother or sister, it might have been a different matter.  Who knows?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: MarquisAnthony on December 28, 2004, 11:18:25 AM
Thanks Martyn. I did not know that George of Cambridge was in a morganic marriage. Who did he marry?

Also I fixed my multiple typos in my previous posting. I hate typos and I must have been exhausted that day. :-/
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on December 28, 2004, 12:00:35 PM
The Duke of Cambridge was married to Sarah Louisa Fairbrother, more often known as Louisa.  She had been an actress and they had three sons who were given the family name of Fitzgeorge, the 'Fitz' usually denoting royal illegitimacy.
Their sons were Col. George William Adolphus Fitzgeorge, 1843 - 1907, Sir (Rear Admiral) Adolphus Augustus Frederick Fitzgeorge 1846 - 1922 and Col. Augustus Charles Frederick Fitzgeorge, 1847 - 1933.  
They seemed to have a marked preference for certain names!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: MarquisAnthony on December 28, 2004, 03:38:21 PM
Oh! Ok! Now I remember them. Sometimes I get real mixed up in regards to the Hanover brothers and their mistresses. I remember Louisa Fairbrother and such. And it seems as though the FitzGeorges went out to make a name and career for themselves.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on December 28, 2004, 05:56:15 PM
Quote
Oh! Ok! Now I remember them. Sometimes I get real mixed up in regards to the Hanover brothers and their mistresses. I remember Louisa Fairbrother and such. And it seems as though the FitzGeorges went out to make a name and career for themselves.


You may be right about the Fitzgeorges, MarquisAnthony.  I don't know an awful lot about them and am hoping that a new book that I have ordered will supply some pictures of and information about them.
Mind you, connections are all in this life and I am sure that having such an illustrious father probably opened doors for them.....
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: MarquisAnthony on December 29, 2004, 09:11:54 AM
Oh definitely Martyn I do know that. What book did you order that you think will provide info about them?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on December 29, 2004, 10:51:02 AM
Quote
Oh definitely Martyn I do know that. What book did you order that you think will provide info about them?


Do you know I am such an idiot, I've forgotten the title!  The book, along with some others, is being delivered to my work address; I will be back at work on the 4th Jan (hopefully they should have arrived by then) so I will let you know the title and whether it has the info about the Fitzgeorges.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: MarquisAnthony on December 29, 2004, 01:18:49 PM
No worries. Thanks.

Does anyone have any info on Queen Victoria's trip to India where she received the crown of the new Indian Empire?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Dennis on December 29, 2004, 02:05:14 PM
Queen Victoria never went to India.  The Prince of Wales did at the same time she was proclaimed Empress of India.

In 1911, George V and Mary went for the Dehli Durbar.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: MarquisAnthony on December 29, 2004, 04:06:28 PM
Oh ok. I knew that Bertie and Alix went but I guess was wrong about QV going. I guess she never left Europe.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Dennis on December 29, 2004, 04:23:34 PM
Well, almost.  Alix was not permitted to go.  She was very, very upset about that.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: MarquisAnthony on December 29, 2004, 04:52:31 PM
Thanks for the correction Dennis.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on December 29, 2004, 05:03:55 PM
Quote
Well, almost.  Alix was not permitted to go.  She was very, very upset about that.


Why was Alix not permitted to go, Dennis?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Janet_W. on December 29, 2004, 05:32:59 PM
Okay, at this point I'm relying on the Edward the King miniseries rather than any scholarly work, but I believe Bertie saw it as a chance to "cut loose" a bit, and Queen Victoria was opposed to Alix traveling since she felt it was her place to stay at home with the children . . . also, India was not considered particularly healthy for a woman of Alix's somewhat delicate constitution. Beyond that, of course, I rather think Queen Victoria would have resented Alix going to India and having a great time while she remained in England!

This, of course, is all interpretation--on the part of the miniseries scriptwriters, plus yours truly. So, any other thoughts and/or scholarly backup on the matter?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on December 29, 2004, 05:35:24 PM
A very scholarly educated guess Janet.  You may be right - I will take a look at one of my Alix books tomorrow...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on January 05, 2005, 06:27:19 PM
Quote

Do you know I am such an idiot, I've forgotten the title!  The book, along with some others, is being delivered to my work address; I will be back at work on the 4th Jan (hopefully they should have arrived by then) so I will let you know the title and whether it has the info about the Fitzgeorges.


Well Marquis, the books that I ordered from Rosvall have arrived, and the one with the information about the FitzGeorges is called 'The Golden Book of Royalty, Relatively Speaking', by Robert Golden.  It is a lovely book; if I get time (I am starting to be busy at work again) I will post some information and pictures.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on January 06, 2005, 04:55:39 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Cambridges.jpg)

Here we go Marquis.  This photo features the Duke of Cambridge and was taken at Bad Homburg' I presume some time in the 1890's.  the Duke is seated and from left to right we have (also seated) Mrs Louisa Hamilton and his younger sons Rear Admiral Sir Adolphus FitzGeorge ans Colonel Sir Augustus FitzGeorge.
Apparently it is possible that Mrs Hamilton was the daughter of the Duke and Mrs FitzGeorge (Fairbrother) but she was never acknowledged as such.  Her date of birth was March 1841, a year after the Duke and Louisa Fairbrother had met.  At her marriage in 1859 to Captian Francis Hamilton her surname was listed on the marriage certificate as FitzGeorge and her father named as George FitzGeorge.  She was also present at the deathbed of the Duke.
The Duke had first met his wife, the actress Louisa Fairbrother on the day of Queen Victoria's wedding in 1840.  Louisa was a celebrated beauty - she and the Duke were married in secret and in contravention of the Royal Marriages Act.  This took place at St. John's Church Clerkenwell and Louisa adopted the name of Mrs FitzGeorge.
Apparently they were devoted to each other, although David Duff states somewhat differently in 'Hessian Tapestry', as I have quoted earlier and although the Duke's official residence was Gloucester House in Piccadilly, he lived with his wife at 6 Queen St, Mayfair, in the evenings and on 'off-duty days'.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on January 06, 2005, 04:57:01 PM
I forgot to add that I have never seen a photo of Louisa Fairbrother; has anyone ever seen a likeness of her?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on January 06, 2005, 05:10:14 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/GeorgeFitzGeorge.jpg)

Here is a picture of the son who is missing from the other photo, George Fitzgeorge.  He was the eldest son of the Duke and Louisa - not an awful lot is known about him, even by his descendants.
He married Rosa Baring (of the Barings Bank family) and he was a colonel in the Welsh Fusilliers.  Throughout his life he seems to have had financial difficulties, with the Duke paying off his debts from time to time.
At his father's funeral in 1904, he was not strong enough to walk with his two brothers behind the gun carriage that carried the coffin , being obliged to ride to Kensal Green Cemetary in a carriage.  He died in Switzerland in 1907, his health never having been particularly good, at the relatively early age of fifty-four.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 01, 2005, 05:02:10 PM
Quote
There is soon to be a display at Windsor Castle on Queen Victoria and the Crimean War, from April 2005 onwards, including military memorabilia. There will also be a focus on the relationship between Queen Victoria and Florence Nightingale. Details from http://www.royal.gov.uk


How interesting! Florence Nightingale (and QV of course) are in the Famous and Interesting Women biographies I put together for my daughter (to supplement her history education and women's pride). Maybe some kind soul will go and tell us about it.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 06, 2005, 08:14:48 AM
I thought there was specific thread on the Diamond Jubilee, in which someone was asking about who attended - but I can't find it anywhere, so I'll put these pages here. They're from a Programme of the Jubilee whichwas sold for charity in 1897:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/bluetoria/jubilee.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 06, 2005, 08:19:46 AM
Sorry they're a bit big & wonky - the book is so old it's hard to put it in the scanner & stop it falling apart!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/bluetoria/jubilee2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/bluetoria/517c4a13.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 06, 2005, 12:11:30 PM
So sad, when you think (as QV noted) those who had passed on since the last Jubilee in 1887.
Fritz (son-in-law, 1888)
Louis (son-in-law, 1892)
Eddy (grandson, 1892)
Henry (son-in-law, 1895)

And those who couldn't attend (unlike in 1887 when I think the entire clan was there) like Alix (in Russia). I don't know as it was as 'family' an affair as before.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 06, 2005, 12:28:13 PM
Yes, I agree. And the decline in the Queen herself over those 10 years must have been very obvious to people like Ella who didn't see her that often.
It strikes me that this jubilee was like the beginning of the end. Liko's recent death was the first in the whole series of family tragedies that continued to the end of her reign, wasn't it?
And then the fact that Sophie couldn't attend because of the war seems to portend the future Balkan conflicts that woud divide the family even further. Willy, was supposedly 'frantic' and 'would have liked to kill his poor brother [Henry] for daring toaccept the Queen's invitation." (which was denied to Willy.)
Even the tone of this jubilee -which was meant to be more of a celebration of the Empire -  seems to point to future divisions.
How very sad.  :(
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: kmerov on February 08, 2005, 07:05:16 PM
Is there a picture of QV mother somewhere in the Windsor section?
I have only seen one picture of the Duchess of Kent, and it was from around 1860.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 08, 2005, 11:43:01 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/britain/Viktoria-Kent1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/britain/178620Victoria-02.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/britain/dsc016041.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/britain/9896CC_KP-R1.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on February 09, 2005, 11:35:16 AM
Quote


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/britain/178620Victoria-02.jpg)

Victoria's mother was  handsome woman in her prime, if these portraits are anything to go by.....Victoria must have entirely taken after her father in the looks department.............


Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 09, 2005, 01:24:57 PM
Well, portraits can be very flattering (hello, Winterhalter!  :) ) but I think it was said that she was quite an attractive woman. Victoria did seem to rather resemble the Hanoverians rather than the Coburgs.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: kmerov on February 09, 2005, 01:38:49 PM
Thank you for the pictures, she does look better then QV, but as you said its portraits...
The picture from 1860, which i was talking about is a real photo of The duchess of Kent. Is there other photos of her?

Did the Hannoverians not look good in generel?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 09, 2005, 01:52:22 PM
I don't think the Hanoverians were especially renowned for their good looks though GIV was reported to have been reasonably good-looking before his lifestyle caught up with him (in a big way!)

There are a few photos of the Duchess of Kent but not many as the first royal photograph wasn't until a few years before she died.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: kmerov on February 09, 2005, 05:22:47 PM
I know, i just hoped that someone had posted one of them. There is quit alot of Prince Albert and didnt they die about the same time?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on February 10, 2005, 06:17:08 AM
Quote
I don't think the Hanoverians were especially renowned for their good looks though GIV was reported to have been reasonably good-looking before his lifestyle caught up with him (in a big way!)

 


Too funny!  LOL!  George IV was very attractive as a young man before succumbing to overweening vanity and the Hanoverian tendency to corpulence.  The Hanoverian men seem to look better than the women, after all his daughter Charlotte was no looker, it must be said, despite some flattering portraits.  QV definitely took after her father in looks and colouring......
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Karentje on February 14, 2005, 02:21:17 AM
Hi everyone

I've come across a picture of Queen Victoria that I had never seen before. It's dated 1840s-1850s.
Has anyone ever seen it before or others from the same sitting perhaps?
I just noticed (a little late :-[) PrinceEddy's wonderful post on the Prince Consort thread of a pic of Albert in his early twenties. Are there any other pics of him around that period? Maybe together with Victoria or one of his elder children?

Here's the link to young Queen V, I hope you like it!

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/piclib/pages/bigpicture.asp?id=1399

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Karentje on February 14, 2005, 02:28:01 AM
Good heavens!! What a wonderful site!
Here's more Victoria:

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/piclib/pages/bigpicture.asp?id=1392

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/piclib/pages/bigpicture.asp?id=1393

These are all completely new to me.
Enjoy!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Sarai on February 20, 2005, 02:09:33 PM
Karentje,
Thank you for posting those links. Those photos of Victoria are new to me as well. I also thought interesting the photos of her actual garments and shoes on the site.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Arleen on February 20, 2005, 02:36:23 PM
You can certainly tell who Princess Vicky took after!!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on February 20, 2005, 03:03:30 PM
Goodness, first-hand evidence of why the French thought her fashion sense so dreadful!  She looks an absolte fright in those photos - it is hard to decide which are worse, the ones in the flowered mantle and ugly bonnet, or the dowdy evening dress?  Just a shame that she isn't carrying the 'poodle' purse........
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: ChristineM on February 20, 2005, 06:07:51 PM
On the subject of Queen Victoria, I wonder if the present Queen dips into her great, great grandmother's diaries to see if she can pick up some hints as to how to deal with an a difficult, determined son who also happens to be Prince of Wales - heir to her throne.   After all, there is no self-help group she can turn to for advice or a councillor who specialises in royal rebels.

Can' remember how the dates fall.   Does anyone know is it possible that Queen Victoria was aware of Mrs Keppel's existence in her son's life or was the queen already dead before Mrs Keppel arrived on the scene.

tsaria
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 20, 2005, 06:14:33 PM
He met her in early 1898 when she was presented to him on the Riviera; she became his mistress soon afterwards...but apparently he didn't quite live up to her expectations ::)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on February 21, 2005, 06:02:17 AM
Quote
He met her in early 1898 when she was presented to him on the Riviera; she became his mistress soon afterwards...but apparently he didn't quite live up to her expectations ::)


Bluetoria, do enlighten!  What do you mean 'he didn't quite live up to her expectations'?
I'm quite sure that he made up for it in cash perks and jewellery!  Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose....
I would hazard a guess and say that the existence of such a creature, again neither titled or wealthy, would probably have been screened from the aged Queen.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: ChristineM on February 21, 2005, 06:40:47 AM
bluetoria

Do you think since Bertie met Mrs Keppel in 1898 and Queen Victoria did not die until 1901, she would have known of the liaison.   Like Martyn, I am intrigued by your remarks - can you - dare you enlarge?!

So there is a chance the Queen might have the opportunity of taking a leaf out of her great, great grandmother's book on this subject.

tsaria
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 21, 2005, 07:37:43 AM
Quote
  Like Martyn, I am intrigued by your remarks - can you - dare you enlarge?!

So there is a chance the Queen might have the opportunity of taking a leaf out of her great, great grandmother's book on this subject.

tsaria


I am FAR too refined to go into details so I'm afraid I cannot enlarge (nor, for the last 15 years of his life, could the king! ;) - According to Skittles & hinted at by Mrs. K.)
But poor Alice K. was so dreadfully devoted to him that she missed him when he was away. One day someone said to her,
"Hush someone's coming,"
To which she replied, ruefully, "It certainly won't be the king."
Make of it what you will!

QV certainly knew of Bertie's mistresses & commented that Alix had a 'lot to put up with.' There is also an interesting quotation of hers regarding  Bertie's many unsuitable friends:
"If ever you become King you will find all these friends most inconvenient, and you will have to break with them all!"
(He didn't take her advice!)

I imagine our present Queen might - when she's not too depressed by it all - view this present situation as Queen Alexandra did Bertie & Alice K. Looking out of a window she saw them sitting together one day 'like two plump partridges' & she thought they looked so odd she just rolled about laughing.
Well C & C don't make such a pretty pair, either, do they?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on February 21, 2005, 07:50:14 AM
How funny!  So it would appear that Alice Keppel's duties were perhaps less strenuous than previously imagined?
And you are right.  Mrs Keppel, despite her later tendency to corpulence, obviously not getting enough exercise (!) was a lovely woman by all accounts.  This pair are prosaic in the extreme.........
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: ChristineM on February 21, 2005, 03:26:19 PM
Camilla still appears a fit woman for her age.   However, the Prince of Wales looks like a man a good ten to fifteen years older.   I hope Mrs Barker Bowles is not encountering similar problems to those of her great grandmother experienced.

Why am I writing this... quite frankly my dears, I don't give a .... hoot.

tsaria
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on February 22, 2005, 07:13:57 AM
Quote
Camilla still appears a fit woman for her age.   However, the Prince of Wales looks like a man a good ten to fifteen years older.   I hope Mrs Barker Bowles is not encountering similar problems to those of her great grandmother experienced.

Why am I writing this... quite frankly my dears, I don't give a .... hoot.

tsaria


I think that she is very attractive, and since her make-over looks quite glamorous.
However bias-cut Versace should be proscribed from her wardrobe.........
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 22, 2005, 04:47:40 PM
I was just thinking that one of the most underestimated aspects of Queen Victoria is her brilliant sense of humour. There are so many phrases & asides in her letters which make me laugh out loud. (e.g. the part about the woman who gave her an ostrich egg, which she had signed, & QV said the woman was so proud, 'You'd have thought she'd laid it herself.' - or her very witty descriptions of many people & her phrases that stick in the mind like 'odious Gunther' etc. etc.)
The accounts of her laughing almost uncontrollably at dinners etc. are also very funny.
I just thought I'd write that because - in the light of many other events occuring in the UK & discussed at very great length - it might do us good to think of something amusing :) :)
(Like Queen Victoria...who WAS amused!)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on February 23, 2005, 05:13:21 AM
Yes, Bluetoria, QV's sense of humour was VERY acute!

There's also the story that, following the tragic sinking of HMS Eurydice, QV summoned the Superintendent of the Dockyard, Admiral Foley, to report to her at Osborne.  He was quite elderly and deaf by this time and apparently went on and on about the recovery of the sunken ship.  QV decided to change the subject and enquired about the Admiral's sister.  He clearly misheard her and bellowed:

"Well Ma'am, I am going to have her turned over and take a good look at her bottom and have it well scraped".  

QV apparently had to put down her knife and fork, hide her face in her handkerchief and she shook and heaved with laughter until the tears ran down her face, whilst the attendant footmen had to take refuge behind a screen to recover...

This is from Queen Victoria A Portrait by Giles St. Aubyn.



Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 23, 2005, 11:03:21 AM
Thanks, Grace ;D
I think she was funny, too, even when she didn't intend to be. Something that made me laugh a lot was when she went to see Leopold when he was ill (which she didn't often do!). On his wall she saw he had a picture of Lily Langtry so she, without a word, climbed up on a chair & removed it, before even bothering to look & see how Leopold was. (I laughed at the mental image of her in her widow's weeds climbing onto the chair...)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on February 23, 2005, 07:50:53 PM
Yes, that story is also hilarious.  One could see a similar scenario happening even today...!  

Apparently, also, even though he was in awe of QV,  there is a story of Bertie (Edward VII) sitting somewhere with his mother and the two of them were "rocking with laughter" together...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on February 24, 2005, 06:02:15 AM
Not half as funny as some of the stuff that she wrote in her letters, not intendiing to be funny!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on February 24, 2005, 07:33:46 AM
Well, Martyn, as you would know, people are often at their funniest when they're not trying to be...!

Your friend, Grace
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 24, 2005, 09:22:42 AM
I always liked the story about how, due to a timing mix-up, she arrived first for the marriage of GV & QM in 1893 (she normally would've been the last to arrive). She just sailed in anyway and remarked that it was very amusing to watch the faces of various royals as they came in and saw her there already. She also found it entertaining to have this new perspective on everything--something her rank usually prevented.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 24, 2005, 11:04:03 AM
I had not heard that one  :) but I love these stories!
I also thought Arthur Ponsonby's description of a particular dinner extremely funny. It was where Alice & Louis were present & Louis kept saying very long German words which Alice would translate into v. short English ones (fog for example) & how QV kept coughing every time Alice's conversation touched on politics! (Sounds like my mother when we were children, coughing through 'unsuitable' part of films!)
But the funniest thing of all, I think, is how QV is so adamant about something (e.g. Beatrice's wedding or Alix 'will not be allowed to go to Russia') & then a few letters later she just accepts it!

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on February 28, 2005, 05:18:22 PM
I don't THINK this has been discussed elsewhere but if it has, I'm sorry! I have always been intrigued by QV's frequent references to her 'nerves' - it seems such a common complaint in the family:
Alix's nerves were always fragile.
Vicky wrote several times about Mossy suffering from her weak nerves.
Toria was always having trouble with her nerves.
They seem to have had the then fashionable (now non-existant?) problem of 'neurasthenia' - which seems a bit vague.
What do you think they actually MEANT by their 'nerves'?
(I wonder, too, as I was just writing about this elsewhere, if QV suffered from a thyroid problem which might account for the rather bulbous shape of her eyes & her frequent mood swings??)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on February 28, 2005, 07:56:59 PM
Hi Bluetoria,

I think this was just the Victorian way of expressing anxiety because there is no such thing as "weak nerves".  The stresses and trials of life were no doubt present at that time as they are now!

When you speak of Alix, do you mean QA or Alicky?  I think Alicky might have been a bit of a hypochondriac, particularly later in life, but I don't think Alix (QA) was a particularly "nervy" character.

Also, QV's eyes were more an inherited Hanovarian characteristic rather than due to any health problem methinks.  As for the mood swings - isn't that normal, to a certain extent?!

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on March 01, 2005, 04:29:34 AM
Quote
Hi Bluetoria,

I think this was just the Victorian way of expressing anxiety because there is no such thing as "weak nerves".  The stresses and trials of life were no doubt present at that time as they are now!

When you speak of Alix, do you mean QA or Alicky?  I think Alicky might have been a bit of a hypochondriac, particularly later in life, but I don't think Alix (QA) was a particularly "nervy" character.

Also, QV's eyes were more an inherited Hanovarian characteristic rather than due to any health problem methinks.  As for the mood swings - isn't that normal, to a certain extent?!



Hello Grace :)
Thank you for explanation of 'nerves'. It seems to feature so often in their letters...perhaps today they would be called sensitive or highly-strung?
I meant Alix Tsarina not QA. I too thought she was a hypochondriac, but now I think perhaps many psychosomatic illnesses are not really just hypochonria - but real physical manifestations of some inner turmoil. (Nerves might be an easier way to describe it?)
Yes, you're probably right about the eyes...after all, her 'mood swings' seemed to lessen rather than increase as she grew older.
Thanks for answering :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on March 06, 2005, 05:42:00 PM
Reading QV's letters I am intrigued to know on what basis Beatrice decided to make her editions & which parts she chose to destroy. Some areas including politics and (not always very flattering) descriptions of many of her contemporaries, are left completely untouched & yet other letters are obviously missing (maybe some of the were destroyed by the Queen herself.) For example the letters about the plans to marry off Ella to Willy have been destroyed & yet highly critical letters describing Willy are left in.
Had Beatrice's intention been to protect the family, she wouldn't have left the criticisms of Alfred & Bertie, for example.
I suppose its an unanswerable question  :-/
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 06, 2005, 08:36:15 PM
Did Beatrice edit the letters or simply QV's journals/diaries?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on March 07, 2005, 04:16:32 AM
Oh...yes. Silly question  :-[
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: tea_rose on March 07, 2005, 11:00:49 AM
Bluetoria, we are very fortunate to have the Queen V/Vicky letters so that we can get the "undiluted" effect. Beatrice didn't have access to these letters-thank goodness.

It is an interesting question as to what was excised and what was left in the journals and letters that Beatrice did edit. I have also heard that the diaries before Prince A.'s death were copied in full prior to the editing frenzy. I can't remember where I heard this-was I in some sort of fevered dream?

 I am such a soft touch for letters and diaries. I have every volume of the Queen V/Vicky letters. I also was thrilled when "A Life-long Passion' was published (Romanovs)--it haunts me that they talked about how much more material was left out due to space constraints. I wish they would do a volume II or III! I guess the general public doesn't have the hunger for these books that I do. I also have letters written by Queen Sophie of the Netherlands to an English friend. They are interesting, as well.

I am off-topic-so sorry! It just drives me wild when I think of Beatrice "bowderlizing" all of this material. I am not even sure it truly reflected Queen V's wishes as she advised Vicky in one of her letters not to do this.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on March 07, 2005, 11:11:46 AM
Yes, tea-rose :) I just made a mistake in asking about the letters & feel foolish!
I agree with you completely; to be able to read their letters gives such an insight into their real characters. What a brilliant idea about further volumes of A Lifelong Passion! I wish too that there were volumes of all the letters in the Windsor Archive!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: GD Alexandra on March 09, 2005, 02:08:11 PM
Hi! I'm trying to find a portrait of Queen Victoria with all of her children and husband. Has somebody got one??? If someone can post it I'll be very glad.

Thanks a lot!!!!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: jfkhaos on March 09, 2005, 02:57:47 PM
Extended family minus Albert:
(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs3/victoriabritain1819d.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 09, 2005, 03:53:56 PM
I can only think of 2 since the family was only complete about a year before Vicky's marriage and departure for Germany and 4 years before Albert's death. This is the most common one (I have a photo version but can only find the sketch one right now):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/britain/BK0053861.jpg)

There were composite photos done--taking various parts of other sittings and cobbling them together like the one above-- and in later years there would often be 'portraits' on the 'wall' behind the group representing those who'd passed on be it Albert, Alice and/or Leopold.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: jfkhaos on March 09, 2005, 04:06:09 PM
That's the one I was looking for but was unsuccessful in finding.  Thanks grandduchessella!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on March 09, 2005, 05:09:23 PM
Quote
Extended family minus Albert:
(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs3/victoriabritain1819d.jpg)



When and where was this photo/portrait done.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 09, 2005, 05:28:24 PM
Wherever, it is obviously a composite and  not a very good one.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on March 09, 2005, 06:18:22 PM
Here is another less common one. I know I have posted it somewere before. I just love this one. Albert has his hand on Lenchen's shoulder, too sweet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/PrinceEddy1864/albertfamgroup.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 09, 2005, 10:53:34 PM
Quote
Wherever, it is obviously a composite and  not a very good one.


That's what I'd meant in my message when I referrenced 'the photo above' (of course when I re-read it it sounded like my own photo!).

These composite photos were very popular for decades, especially as royal families grew too large as to ever assemble them for actual group photos.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on April 25, 2005, 01:03:17 PM
Compared to her daughters & daughters-in-law QV always seemed like a not very caring mother - or at least one who didn't feel so strongly about her children. Her complaints about 'ugly' babies etc. & warnings against baby-worship make her appear somewhat less emotional. But I came across this which I thought was quite touching - it is her journal when she & Albert were going to Coburg in 1845 & the children were being left behind:

"Both Vicky & darling Alice were with me while I dressed. Poor dear [Vicky] would much have wished to go with us...Most willingly I would have taken her, & I wished so much to have one of dearest Albert's children with us to Coburg: but the journey is a serious undertaking, particularly for the first time when she is very young still. But what chiefly decided us is the visit to the King of Prussia where I could not have looked after her. All four children were with us at breakfast...and then with a heavy heart we bade them all adieu in the Hall. Poor little Vicky seemed very sorry but did not cry...It was a painful moment to drive away with the three poor little things standing in the door. God bless them & protect them, & He will!...We reached Buckingham Palace at one. Everything so deserted & lonely here, & I miss the poor children so much"  :(  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on April 25, 2005, 04:02:15 PM
You are very welcome Elisa.  ;D. Thank you so much for the info about the current state of that terrace. Many many photos were taken there of family members over the years so it is nice to know even if it has not remeined in its original state.

Have they actually built a new structure (or building of somekind) there in the location the family is standing in the photo. I mean is this teahouse like a building you know? I wish they would have just left it alone.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on April 25, 2005, 04:09:16 PM
No, Prince Eddy!  :) :) It looks exactly the same. The tea room is in a lower part of the house. There are tables outside though, where the family are standing on the picture.  :D Osborne is so incredibly beautiful!!

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: amedeo on April 26, 2005, 02:37:34 AM
Hi  

has anyone photos or waterpaints of Queen Victoria' s appartaments in Windsor, Buck'am, Osborne or Balmoral?

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on April 26, 2005, 03:23:47 AM
Quote


When and where was this photo/portrait done.

TampaBay



What do you call this type of image?  An engraving?

I have a copy of this in my dining room at home; have also seen it hanging in a corridor at Warwick Castle.  Is it taken from photographs of the individuals and then engraved?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on April 26, 2005, 09:21:59 AM
It is odd. The images are from other photos of the individuals (sometimes small groupings) and then it looks like it was engraved. I've got a few of them at home--either large sketches from the magazines of the time, postcards or cabinet cards. They came in many forms. We've talked about these montages before--the Queen's family was so big that it was really the only one to show the whole family sometimes.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on April 26, 2005, 11:30:55 AM
Quote


--either large sketches from the magazines of the time, postcards or cabinet cards.


What is a cabinet card?  What where their purposes as opposed to a regular photograph?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on April 26, 2005, 05:05:15 PM
A cabinet card is a large hard-backed photograph from that period. They were larger than the carte-de-visites photographs (I think they're about 3x5). The CC's are about 5x7" I think.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on April 28, 2005, 08:01:47 AM
Quote
It is odd. The images are from other photos of the individuals (sometimes small groupings) and then it looks like it was engraved. I've got a few of them at home--either large sketches from the magazines of the time, postcards or cabinet cards. They came in many forms. We've talked about these montages before--the Queen's family was so big that it was really the only one to show the whole family sometimes.  :)


I am very fond of this picture; as I said it hangs in a nice gilt frame in my dining room.

I have a feeling that it was published in one of the illustrated papers of the period........
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on April 28, 2005, 09:08:55 AM
Quote
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page1729.asp

Here is an update on the Queen Victoria and the Crimean War exhibition at Windsor Castle which will begin on April 30th. Especially touching are the Queen's sketches of the soldiers.


Thanks for the link, Elisa!  :)
I'm sure she was totally sincere in writing, "It makes one's heart bleed....to see them so mutilated..."
Yet another unnecessary war.  :(
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on April 29, 2005, 09:26:08 AM
Following on from QV's pictures of the soldiers in the Crimea, this is a picture of a battlefield painted by Bertie - not bad for a 14 year old, is it? (Or in fact for anyone - the horse is good!!)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/bluetoria/crim.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: crazy_wing on May 01, 2005, 04:10:23 AM
Thx for posting bluetoria!

At first i thought it was some sort of children's book illustration or cartoon b/c it looks rather childish.  

But I am surprised (in a good sense) b/c I read that Bertie was probably the only child who didn't inherit any artistic talents from QV and PA.  It is a good detailed painting with shadows.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on May 01, 2005, 11:09:07 AM
Quote
Thx for posting bluetoria!


But I am surprised (in a good sense) b/c I read that Bertie was probably the only child who didn't inherit any artistic talents from QV and PA.


QV & PA always seem to give the impression that poor Bertie had no gifts whatsoever. It seems his mother wanted a clone of his father, and his father wanted a 'perfect' prince.

Poor Bertie...his many talents were just overlooked & underrated by them.  :-/
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: crazy_wing on May 01, 2005, 03:28:09 PM
So it seems he does have some artistic talents.

Btw, does QV's favorite son Arthur have any kind of artistic talent?  I have not read anything about his artistic interests.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on May 01, 2005, 05:01:26 PM
I haven't seen much about it. Given Daisy & Patsy's immense interest and talent in art you could make an assumption that there was some encouragement in that arena. Arthur also sponsored some artists of the Indian scene during his time in India. He recommended some works to Queen Victoria and also that she buy some items and have it mentioned in the Court Circular.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on May 03, 2005, 07:36:22 PM
It’s some interesting to realize that QV almost lost her place as Queen. She wasn’t fated to be heir just because her father beat his others to the ‘baby stakes’. The Clarences had a child who was born AFTER Victoria. Princess Elizabeth Georgiana Adelaide, was born at St. James on 10 December 1820. She was 6 premature. This birth displaced her young cousin who had been born 7 months prior.  The newspapers even went so far as to talk of a future Queen Bess. The poor Duchess of Clarence (who would become Queen Adelaide) who was so gentle and wanted children so badly, finally seemed destined to have her child after the loss of one child (Charlotte) on the day of her birth and a miscarriage after a few months of pregnancy. (Of her pregnancies only Charlotte and Elizabeth would live long enough to receive a name)  A few months later tragedy struck and the young Princess died after a ‘convulsive fit’ in March 1821. The cause of death was given as an ‘entanglement’ of the bowels. The would be another stillbirth, then stillborn twins and finally no more pregnancies. None of this made her bitter towards either her husband’s several illegitimate children nor her young niece who would assume the throne that would’ve belonged to her own children. She was very fond of Victoria and would’ve spent more time with her if the Duchess of Kent had permitted it. Adelaide wrote a charming, albeit sad, note to the Duchess of Kent when Victoria was small, after the death of her own child, saying that since her own children were gone, she considered Victoria "mine, too" so dearly did she love her. The young Victoria had sympathized  with her "Aunt Clarence" because she knew "how well she loved children." Victoria would continue to be fond of Adelaide until the latter’s death. There is a story (don’t know if it’s actually true) relating that when Edward VII and Queen Alexandra were walking through Buckingham Palace, they came across a marble statue. This statue depicted one of Adelaide’s lost children in a cradle. Alexandra inquired as to who it was and rumor has it that EVII replied that ’ My dear, if that baby had lived, you and I would not be here!’



Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alexandra on May 23, 2005, 12:39:38 AM
Back to QV and her dislike of babies and baby-worship. That is something I share with her, but I don;t think it necessarily means that one is therefore unfit to undertake the tasksof being a parent. In  Victoria's time - and still today - there is a whole array of gender-related responses, very seldom explored by most people, and sprung like a trap on the unwary. Victoria sounds to me as if she is rebelling against the ideal of a woman, as mother, expected to simper round 'her' infant in a state of fatuousness - and to me, she sounds like a proto-feminist! Outspoken as she was about the ugliness of infants ('that dreadful, froglike action in the bath') and about how giving birth made her feel like a cow or a dog was remarkable in an age that was creating the whole crippling apparatus of the cult of Pure Womanhood and of the Pure Mother. She was remarkably frank and helpful to her daughters and granddaughters, so that her death removed a wise, reliable pillar of their lives, and it is one of the reasons that I greatly admire her and would have loved to have known her.
And tomorrow is her birthday ... I think we'll have a party!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on May 23, 2005, 05:15:19 AM
Alexandra, what an interesting post! Do you think she was aware that she was rebelling? One of the many contradictions in her character is that she was so firmly opposed to the rights of women (claiming, for example, that one aristocratic lady who supported women's suffrage should be horsewhipped!! Or insisting that the husband was the head of the household & must be obeyed) & yet she was very outspoken in claiming her own rights! It must have been difficult for her to assimilate these contradictory views particularly in her relationship with Albert. On the one hand she maintained that she was THE QUEEN & yet she was so dependent upon him & was adamant that within the home, he was her 'master.' The older she grew, the more able I think she was to separate her role as Queen & her role as wife/mother. (Hence her exasperated laughter when Wilhelm wrote to her using his full title as Kaiser.)
I share your admiration for her; she is one of the most fascinating monarchs in history!

A party for her birthday! What a good idea!!  :D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RomanovFan on May 23, 2005, 11:29:59 PM
Quote
Hi everyone

I've come across a picture of Queen Victoria that I had never seen before. It's dated 1840s-1850s.
Has anyone ever seen it before or others from the same sitting perhaps?
I just noticed (a little late :-[) PrinceEddy's wonderful post on the Prince Consort thread of a pic of Albert in his early twenties. Are there any other pics of him around that period? Maybe together with Victoria or one of his elder children?

Here's the link to young Queen V, I hope you like it!

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/piclib/pages/bigpicture.asp?id=1399


Was the queen pregnant with Vicky in those pics or was it after she had her?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on May 24, 2005, 10:39:33 AM
I think it was lovely how the family celebrated Queen Victoria's birthday even when they were away in other countries. In 1869, for example, Princess Alice wrote from Potsdam (where she was staying with Vicky):

"How much we thought of you...I can't say! Lord Augustus Loftus dined with us three & the elder children; and we drank your health, the band playing, 'God Save the Queen'! All our girls had wreaths of natural flowers in honour of the day."  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Aliss_Kande on May 24, 2005, 01:31:01 PM
someone asked if those photos of QV were while she was pregnant with Vicky.  That is impossible.  THe first photograph ever taken of QV was with Vicky when she was about four years old.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on May 24, 2005, 01:50:55 PM
Hi Aliss_Kande, welcome to the forum  :). Do you know which photograph that is? (Could you maybe post it, if it's not already posted  :)).

I would have thought QV would have had an aversion to being photographed while pregnant. Like Vicky, she seemed to think it was something that should be hidden. The photograph of Princess Alice at Bertie's wedding is quite amusing because she is virtually drowned in a huge rug/cape to conceal her pregnancy, but the rug simply draws attention to it!!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on May 24, 2005, 04:30:15 PM
Hey everyone.  ;D  I have been away for a really long time. I missed everyone. Unfortunatly I will still probably not be posting up to full speed or whatever. I have a new job that takes up time (I love it though and am glad to be working) but also I am on a really slow internet and computer now. It really stinks.


Quote
. Do you know which photograph that is? (Could you maybe post it, if it's not already posted  :)).


This is the photo Aliss was reffering to toria
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/loali2/victoriavicky.jpg)

The ones Karen posted the link to were taken later in the early 1850s at least. I doubt she is pregnant with any child in the photo pf her in the light colored dress. There were some more on that site that were upper body shots that may have been taken during her pregnancy with Leopold. ?.


And yes Happy Birthday to the Old Queen.  ;)
I wonder how or if the current royals celebrate or remember her birthday. Do you think they all even know today is the anniversey of her birth? I hope they do.

I have often wondered about the extent of knowledge today's royal family has about their predecessors. What do William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Zara, Anne etc. know about Eddy, George, Toria, Daisy, Patsy, Vicky etc. It would be interesting to know.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on May 24, 2005, 09:07:52 PM
 

Is that photo Bertie or Vicky? I've seen both of them listed--does anyone know for sure? It's so hard to tell with the children at that age.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on May 24, 2005, 09:24:00 PM
Hey ella. I missed you and Alicky (or should I say Mrs. Eddy  ;D) alot. Then again I missed everyone alot  ;).

I am almost positive that it is Vicky. I always thought it was even when I saw it listed as Bertie. I think the doll does give it away and the dress. Bertie would have been about three. I am not sure of the exact age he stopped wearing dresses but.. Also the hair style seems quite femanine. It is parted at the center like the Queens and there are ringlets. It just looks more like Vicky too to me. But also it looks alot like Moretta at that age, specifically those photos taken of her and Vicky in 1870.

I think most newer publications have this listed strictly as Vicky as well. It is in so many books but the couple that said it was bertie it seems to me were older (published prior to 15 or 20 years ago) books and periodicals. ?.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Aliss_Kande on May 28, 2005, 08:31:35 PM
If first saw that listed as Bertie in a web site not to long ago.  However, I went to the library and skimmed the picture sections of three books about QV and one about Vicky.  All had that picture and all listed it as Vicky.  So, I think it is safe to say it's Vicky. :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Sarai on May 29, 2005, 03:41:15 PM
Quote
I have often wondered about the extent of knowledge today's royal family has about their predecessors. What do William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Zara, Anne etc. know about Eddy, George, Toria, Daisy, Patsy, Vicky etc. It would be interesting to know.


Since Beatrice and Eugenie were named after QV's daughter and grandaughter, respectively, I would hope that they know about their namesakes. I recently got the book Victoria and Albert: A Family Life at Osborne House, and was surprised to read that Fergie (the author) has such a liking towards Victoria's youngest daughter. So much so that she named her own daughter after her. And as far as Eugenie goes, she explains: "Napoleon III and his wife, the Empress Eugenie (after whom Princess Beatrice named her daughter and hence our Eugenie), were invited there in 1857" (italics are mine).
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on May 29, 2005, 04:13:11 PM
I am sure the York Princesses know all there is to know about QV.  QV is Sarah's favorite royal and she has spoke actually "gushed" many times about QV & Albert on American television with a hint of tears in her eyes and awesome respect in her voice.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grand Duke on May 30, 2005, 06:21:18 PM
[size=18]E-book about Queen Victoria[/size]


(http://historicaltextarchive.com/img/victoria.jpg) Queen Victoria (http://historicaltextarchive.com/books.php?op=viewbook&bookid=10) by Lytton Strachey
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ssyentz on June 01, 2005, 04:38:23 PM
I would like to know if anyone has info re: QV's "Excerpts from Our Life in the Highlands" presentation books she had published.  Anyone know how many were printed, and how many she actually inscribed & presented?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Sarai on June 05, 2005, 01:32:27 PM
Quote
Just to go back to this.  Was this a pastime in which the Queen indulged on a regular basis? Or is it merely a 'novelty' shot?


There is a drawing of her in the book Victoria and Albert: A Family Life at Osborne House that shows the Queen in a similar pose, but when she was younger (1869). The caption reads, "The Queen thought that spinning might be a soothing occupation for a young widow, and had a spinning wheel in her sitting room." So it seems she took it up after Albert's death, but continued with this pastime for years after.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on June 05, 2005, 02:06:31 PM
Thank you very much Sarai for that information about the spinning.

How interesting that she should adopt it as a soothing pastime after Albert's death; I wonder if it really worked?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Shvibzik on June 07, 2005, 12:12:50 PM
I don't know if these have been posted before.

http://www.lombardmaps.com/cat/histfig/euroroyal/queenvictoria.jpg

http://www.lombardmaps.com/cat/histfig/euroroyal/victoria.jpg
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on June 12, 2005, 12:22:42 PM
There's an interesting article in today's Sunday Times about how QV so hated this photograph of herself that she put her thumb across it & wiped herself out! Voila! Queen Victoria's thumb print!!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/bluetoria/times.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Martyn on June 12, 2005, 01:55:45 PM
Bluetoria, please can you refresh my memory as to why she smudged her face out?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on June 12, 2005, 02:08:17 PM
the whole photo:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/princesspat/britain/bertiesibs1.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on June 12, 2005, 06:01:02 PM
Quote
Bluetoria, please can you refresh my memory as to why she smudged her face out?


She just didn't like the picture!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on June 20, 2005, 08:55:29 AM
It being today 118 years ago, I just had to copy this from QV's diary of her Golden Jubilee on 20th June 1887:

"The day has come & I am alone though surrounded by so many dear Children. I am writing after a very fatiguing day in the Garden at Buckingham Palace, where I used to sit so often in former happy days. 50 years today since I came to the throne. God has mercifully sustained me through so many trials & sorrows."

10 years later,  20th June 1897:

"This eventful day has opened & I pray God to help & protect me as He has hitherto done during these sixty years! I feel sad at the new losses I have sustained, especially the one of our beloved Liko! God will help me on, surely! How well I remember this day sixty years ago when I was called from my bed by dear Mama to receive the news of my accession!"
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: joan_d on November 09, 2005, 09:45:50 PM
In this day and age, we know far more about the psychological impact of bereavement so with hindsight we are able to have more of an insight into QV's grief and also the impact it had on her children.   Professionals would have a clearer picture than an interested amateur such as myself but I think everyone would agree that the Queen was suffering a severe form of clinical depression and possible other mental health disorders.  With the medication and psychotherapy that is available today, I have no doubt that she would not suffer as long as she obviously did.  To lose a life's partner as the peak of one's sexual power (and the Queen was very obviously a passionate woman) must have a huge impact.   I think that was at the root of the problems together with dependency issues which she had a result of her childhood.   Fascinating stuff.

I am also interested in the impact it had on her daughters and one can almost put each one on a sliding scale of Albert's versus Victoria's influence.   From Vicky who was very quickly despatched on the European Royalty marriage market when virtually a child to Beatrice who would have been held a virtual captive spinster if QV had had her way.   No wonder this web site exists - there are no ends to the possible topics one can explore although I do tend to despair on the endless postings of which Princess or GD has the bluest eyes or is ugly or pretty !!!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on November 09, 2005, 09:50:45 PM
In the PBS documentary "Queen Victoria's Empire", after Albert's death Victoria "sort of goes into what I like to call purdah" because she probably felt incompetant to attend to affairs of state.
Note: Purdah means:    
1. keeping of women from public view: the Hindu and Islamic custom of keeping women fully covered with clothing and apart from the rest of society


2. screen: a screen or curtain used in some Hindu communities to keep women out of view


3. veil: a veil worn by some Hindu and Muslim women as part of purdah

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on November 10, 2005, 12:23:42 AM
It seems Prince Albert believed she was suffering from prety severe depression in the months before he died following the death of her mother the Duchess of Kent. Victoria had a very emotional, complex, love-hate relationship with her mother. When she died in 1861, she basically had a nervous breakdown then. She still hadn't come out of it completely when Prince Albert died.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 10, 2005, 02:17:57 AM
Do you think it's right to say though that she actually appeared to enjoy the grieving process? Which is partly why it went on for so long perhaps?
:)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: joan_d on November 10, 2005, 04:08:16 AM
Eddieboy - I think you have a valid point.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on November 10, 2005, 04:10:37 AM
Absolutely she did, Eddieboy, and it's understandable, given the support she received from Albert and the fact that she had been in love with him from the moment, virtually, they met over 20 years earlier.

However, the way she deprived her children, particularly the younger ones, of the rest of their childhood in her mourning was very, very selfish indeed.  Difficult though it would have been, she should have put their needs before her own and in doing this, would have gained strength herself.  

She seemed determined that no-one should be happy at all - even in the way she ensured Alice's wedding, for example, was more like a funeral than a celebration.

However, though she was convinced she was soon to follow Albert to the tomb, this didn't happen and I think she learnt to enjoy life again after some time.  

She probably had a type of breakdown, losing Albert so close to her mother's death, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 10, 2005, 06:41:28 AM
 ;D ;D ;D you think so Mrs Eddy??!!!

I think you are right Grace regarding the effect on her children. Beatrice especially was never really the same.

I agree that for all her amazing qualities QV could be extremely selfish. The way she kept Alberts and her Mothers rooms exactly the same was a sure sign she couldn't let go and was her way of holding on to them, which is actually quite a comon reaction.

I did read that by the 1890s she had begun to tire of the funeral like atmosphere and really began to enjoy her self and especially enjoyed her grandchildrens company!! :)

EDIT: I think she definitely had a breakdown!! They were two of the most important adults in her life, if not the most important, to lose them so close together must have been awful.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ssyentz on November 10, 2005, 08:06:06 AM
This is an exceedingly interesting topic about which I have much to say and much to learn.  I'm in a time crunch at the moment, but I shall try to put some thoughts together when I can return.  This is one thread that will get my continuing attention...I really look forward to what all of you have to say.

Joan d, thanks for starting this!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on November 10, 2005, 09:29:25 AM
I agree that QV was pretty much at the point of a breakdown after the death of her mother, and the death of Albert was unbearable to her as she depended upon him for everything. However, I also believe that once she had sunk into the 'role' of the mourning widow, she found it impossible to get out of it again, no matter how much she wanted to. I believe she felt guilty if she stopped mourning for Albert and it was guilt which made her more determined to insist on constantly reminding her children what an angel they had lost. She did seem to revel in mourning - her letters to poor Victoria of Hesse after the death of Princess Alice, are so filled with gloomy references to the sorrow she must be feeling. Again, I suspect there is a hint of guilt in this, as she realized she had been quite unkind towards Alice in the decade before her death.
The impact on the children must have been devastating. Vicky probably came out best because she was away. I think Alice never recovered and in the long run this contributed to her own frailty and early death. Lenchen, who was devoted to her father, changed from being quite outgoing, into being suffocated in the atmosphere of mourning, which doubtlessly led to her own hypochondria, and poor Leopold, who might have been better understood by PA than by QV, was alternately abandoned and stifled.
All in all, a terrible tragedy!!  :'(
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on November 10, 2005, 10:29:00 AM
I don't know how well Vicky escaped. If you read the letters to and from Vicky and QV (even the puny amount that have been published) in the months, even years, after PA's death, Vicky was the recipient of some of QV's strongest emotions. Over and over there are letters (apparently written daily) that would go on for upwards of 24 pages sometimes pouring out her feelings. There's no doubt that Vicky was the conduit and, considering she was just 20 years old and a mother of 2 in a very uncomfortable position (not to mention her own overwhelming grief for her beloved father) I think she in someways suffered the most. I don't know if it would've been better to be on the receiving end of QV's emotions or wrapped in the funereal atmosphere. I don't know how well I would've managed at age 20. And let's not forget (despite how Vicky had been there for her) that QV was very snappish about Vicky just getting over it after the deaths of Sigismund and Waldemar and being reminded that she (Vicky) at least had Fritz whereas she (QV) had lost the most important person.

I don't think that QV necessarily enjoyed the mourning but that it just became a way of life, an integral part of how she went through her daily existence. There was no one in a position ala Prince Albert to encourage her to come out of it and begin to move on. It was something that had to unfold over years. Around the 1870s (following Bertie's near death) she began to come out more often--Bertie's death had saved the monarchy from the increasing angry drumbeat from all levels about not getting 'bang for their buck' when the Queen was hiding at Windsor, Balmoral and Osborne. QV apparently heeded this and began to emerge from seclusion more and take on some old ceremonials--the drawing room, the opening of Parliament, the basic tree-planting/ribbon cutting/dedications that are the bed & butter of the modern monarchy.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 10, 2005, 01:54:49 PM
I actually disagree with the idea QV was suffering from "a severe form of clinical depression and other mental disorders".  It was not uncommon to be excessive, by todays standards, about mourning during this period. The "move on" attitude of today was not at all in vogue during QVs time, even to the length she took it. Recall during the U.S. Civil War, widows remained in mourning for the rest of their lives, too. QV was simply putting on a public image that was in large part acceptable for the era, even expected.

Her particular brand of mourning would not necessarily be defined as a disorder. Acceptable behavior ranges across a broad spectrum; everyone has his/her own unique form of dealing with big life issues. It has been conventional wisdom for years that whatever helps make life liveable is what a person should do in order to cope. QV, it seems, felt good by maintaining her mourning for PA, and I support her for that. The 'weeping widow' worked for her. Who's to say it is wrong; it was simply her chosen way to deal with a tough situation, and in final analysis, it caused no real harm to anyone. No one was injured, no one was abandoned, and QV remained the beloved mother figure.

I think most other aspects of her character and life indicate she was extremely capable, insightful, task oriented, vital; none of which would indicate clinical depression. She was depressed, but not in depression.

Just my different opinion! Cheers!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: emeraldeyes on November 10, 2005, 02:25:30 PM
This is sooo interesting.  I wish I had something I could add.  :(
I do agree with Herr Kaiser on the point of 'execessive' displays of mourning during that time and that it was not remarkable for a woman to remain in mourning for her husband for the rest of her life.   I also agree that the loss of a mother and a husband within a short period of time would be very difficult to withstand, even for the most stoic person.  I also think that it took a lot of nerve for QV to declare her grief to be more deserving of pity than Vicky's.  
A fascinating subject.  Please continue.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on November 10, 2005, 06:12:09 PM
I have to disagree. I think she did go into a depression and she herself admitted to basically having a breakdown following the death of her mother and it was certainly Albert's opinion. It didn't have to do with death itself but rather the circumstances of her relationship with her mother.

Victorian mourning is certainly more excessive than we're used to today--photographing the dead for instance (though with stillborn babies and those that die shortly after birth this is coming back somewhat) and maintaining rooms in exact order. Queen Alexandra did this for Prince Eddy. It was her emotional state that is called into question--the complete inability to function for weeks and even months following PA's death. It was just a complete collapse.

People then didn't go to therapists or take medicines but even by the standards of the day, QV grief had an excessive quality. All just my opinion though.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on November 10, 2005, 06:16:27 PM
Quote
 I also think that it took a lot of nerve for QV to declare her grief to be more deserving of pity than Vicky's.  


Doesn't it though? There's some on the Waldemar & Sigismund thread but here are some pertinent points I'd written, edited for brevity

...led to her [Vicky's]intense grief when he died. QV apparently wearied of Vicky's consuming grief and depression over Sigismund (hypocrisy alert!) informed her daughter that enough was enough - after all, Vicky had not lost her husband, she had lost her child.  It was nothing like losing the incomparable Albert. QV's grief was often the yardstick - no one grieved as she did, nor as profoundly. Vicky had been rocked (nearly to the point of breakdown) by Sigi's death, when her 2nd daughter Moretta was still a newborn... The combination of a premature labour [with Moretta], Fritz's absence and her favourite son's death had almost completely overwhelmed Vicky....Fritz and the Queen were unable to keep Vicky from suffering a
complete breakdown when Waldy died in 1879.  His death from diphtheria had been horrific, and Vicky had watched, helpless and frantic, as her beloved child suffocated.  It was too much for her to bear. Once again Queen Victoria exhorted her weeping, mourning
daughter to pull herself together, reminding her that she (Vicky) had lost a child, not a husband.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ssyentz on November 10, 2005, 09:51:19 PM
I think we have to remember where PA's death left Victoria.  First, after making one of her very first acts as queen the declaration that she would henceforth NOT be sleeping in her mother's room, QV not only asserted her position but also used it to declare her independence.  Her final ability to reach a truly comfortable relationship with her mother occurred only after she had found relationships with two who proved to be sincere counselors to her, Melbourne and PA.  She, of course, left her "thrall" years with Melbourne once PA came into her life.  Remember too that Lehzen was "discarded" after PA arrived.  The voices of K. Leopold & Stockmar were important, but lost influence when no longer filtered through PA.

All of these circumstances, among others of course, create in my mind a view of a woman who found herself, prior to her mother's death, in a word that truly did not only revolve around her but continued to do so by her own direction as influenced by those few, mentioned above, whom she so strongly trusted.  Her final comfortable relationship with her mother was only possible because of QV's relationship with PA.  The other relationships were filterted through and interpreted to QV by PA.  

So, her mother's death obviously puts the subject of mortality squarely in front of the queen's face.  Her reflections as a daughter seem to give her some sense of the fact that her children, too, are building memories of their own mother.  At this point, then, she is cognizant of her own inner voices and finds that those cannot be filtered by anyone.  That's a hard place to exist in, and, I  think, her experience there caused her great discomfort and, consequently, her condition created a significant degree of concern about her in those around her, particularly her husband.

Then, of course, her dependence on PA became the one safe haven for her.  Shortly thereafter she loses him.

All at once there is no haven, there is no filter to rely on.  The only voices she hears are hers; the only guidanace she will accept is that which she has already heard from PA.  Thus, his plans are those which shall be followed; his advice, echoing in her mind, shall be singular and absolute.  Any possible refutation of the sancitity of that wisdom, then, to her, would be a denial of the only concepts she KNEW were correct, appropriate, right, just, and inviolable.  To try to hold on to that semblence of security was all she could do.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on November 11, 2005, 05:29:05 AM
Just a note:  QV felt only two people were her true equals, her mother and PA. Other soverigns yes, but I am refering to her family and countrymen. Can you imagine losing both of these people within a year?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 11, 2005, 06:40:12 AM
My point exactly  :) It must have been earth shattering!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on November 11, 2005, 10:33:44 AM
Quote

... The only voices she hears are hers; the only guidanace she will accept is that which she has already heard from PA.  Thus, his plans are those which shall be followed; his advice, echoing in her mind, shall be singular and absolute.  Any possible refutation of the sancitity of that wisdom, then, to her, would be a denial of the only concepts she KNEW were correct, appropriate, right, just, and inviolable.  To try to hold on to that semblence of security was all she could do.


I agree with all you Ssyentz except that as time went on, I believe she used PA's views selectively. He, for example, had stated several times he wanted no memorial and what did she do? Filled the country with memorials to him.

In the long run, I think she proved remarkably resilient. This may have been the effect of John Brown initially, who taught her that she could be happy again. In a a way she switched her dependence to various people throughout her life (much like Alix) and yet, considering the affection she felt for JB, she 'recovered' quite quickly after his death. Perhaps by then she had learned to rely more on herself.

Again, the loss of Alice, which she wrote about endlessly, seemed not to have had too great an effect on her mental state (she insisted, for example, that Arthur's wedding went ahead as planned) and the same when Leopold died.

I agree with grandduchessella that her 'cold' reaction to Vicky's grief at the loss of Sigi & Waldemar (& to Alice at Frittie's death) seems unbelievably harsh. With age, I think she softened a little and began to realize that other people, too, could suffer as she did.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 11, 2005, 01:41:50 PM
Perhaps by the time of Alices death she was "cared out". She had grieved enough almost! Though i'm sure she was devastated by Alices, and other family members, subsequent deaths.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: joan_d on November 11, 2005, 02:01:54 PM
I am thrilled with the responses to my topic - I hadn't expected such in-depth and intelligent insights.  How wonderful.   My original >     was more concerned with the effects victoria@s state of "purdah" had on her children    I do think that V & A's two eldest daughters bore the immediate trauma of Albert's death but over the year's, I think poor Beatrice lived with it on a daily basis during her formative years and one can only imagine what a sad and lonely children she had compared with her older siblings who had the benefit of both parents during their formative years.   I have visited Osbourne House on the IOW and the happiness of those years can still be felt.  One only has to walked around the Swiss Cottage with its little vegetable gardens to see how Albert strived to bring up educated and useful princes and princesses.   I am a huge admirer of Albert, all the more because of the difficulties he experienced at the onset of his marriage and during his own childhood.   I also think QV had many sterling qualities and am convinced she did suffer a complete mental breakdown after 1861.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on November 11, 2005, 03:13:32 PM
Throughout the 1870s (basically until Beatrice & Leopold came of age) QV would fall back on her nerves and how she was incapable of handling things (such as greeting family members or 'noise') as an excuse for having her way. She writes this over and over to Vicky. It persisted long after the immediate collapse had passed.

For those children who had basically quiet and easy-going personalities--Helena, Arthur and Beatrice (the latter perhaps having no choice in how she developed)--she had a good relationship with in these years.

Those who tried to shake things up or buck the system--Louise and Leopold--were frequently in disfavor.

Trying to take a middle path and sympathize but try to pull her out of her isolation--like Vicky and Alice--could result in receiving the sharp end of QV's tongue (or pen as it were).

As for poor Bertie, he was just often in the suds with QV period until his near-death in 1872 after which their relationship markedly improved.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on November 11, 2005, 07:51:26 PM
Quote
Do you think it's right to say though that she actually appeared to enjoy the grieving process? Which is partly why it went on for so long perhaps?
 :)
That's an interesting point. I wonder if she just wasn't tiring of the "pity party" going on, in that maybe she just didn't want to give up the feeling that everybody was feeling sorry for her (if not up front, but perhaps in the back of her mind). I know how hard it is to lose someone you care about. I lost my father to cancer 5 years ago when I was 11. But I know that I will be reunited with him in the company of Jesus in heaven.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ssyentz on November 11, 2005, 08:45:15 PM
The Duchess of Kent's death so quickly followed by that of Prince Albert brought about for QV something entirely new for her:  change for which she was totally unprepared and over which she had absolutely no influence.  As I said earlier, she immediately wrapped herself in any piece she could retain of that which had been...anything that retained any essence of that which had been so secure and so familiar.  

As time progressed, as several of you above have mentioned, adjustments could seem perfectly normal to her...in many cases almost invisible evolutions of her maturation as a woman.  Her application of all supremely good characteristics to her husband immediately after his death referred to his humility, among other things.  I believe that she regarded his wishes regarding memorials in that light and thus felt justified in creating around her and her country every reminder of his presence possible.

Additionly, I am reminded of her first correspondence to Vicky after Fritz's death in which she actually put Vicky's suffering abover hers saying, "You are far more sorely tried than me.  I had not the agony of seeing another fill the place of my angel husband which I always felt I never could have borne."

I do not think QV ever "enjoyed" the mourning she insisted upon.  In my view of her mind, it was just, due, and deserved.  As that atmosphere itself became such an intrinsic part of her life for years, she could very logically in her mind see any attempt to veer from that familiar way of life as not simply a defiance of her but also a dishonor to PA.

With the passage of time, the required adherence certainly lessened.  I agree that Bertie's almost fatal illness played a most significant role in her recognition of the fact that time's passing does call for adjustments and accommodations as I do agree that the influence of John Brown was a significantly positive one, even though her children did not appreciate it as such!  Additionally, I see her admiration of and dependence on Disraeli as another step in the same process of maturation.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on November 12, 2005, 12:17:10 AM
"As early as summer 1863, the geologist Charles Lyell was scavenging near the beach at Osborne when he saw the Queen and Alice rowing out to sea, pursued by Affie and Louis, and was amazed to hear them laughing and shouting at each other as if they were on a bank holiday outing".

It would seem from this and other anecdotes that the Queen was not in a total depression for the majority of the 1860's, as most believe.

I think that after her first grieving period was over, Victoria continued to mourn Albert profoundly from a sense of guilt that if she enjoyed her life it all, it would somehow be disloyal to him.  Her grief may also have helped her avoid some of those duties which maybe Albert had attended to previously and which she now found "too hard" to deal with.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on February 20, 2006, 04:43:46 PM
Ok, despite the extremely corny title of this thread ( ::)) I think this thread can be interesting.

We all know that Victoria was devoted to Albert - there's no doubt that he was the love of her life. I also believe that Albert loved Victoria, but I wonder if he was as devoted to her as she was to him? Personally, I've always had the inkling that the person Albert loved most in the world was Vicky, but I'm keen to hear other opinions!  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ena on February 20, 2006, 08:23:38 PM
I always got the feeling that Victoria loved Albert more than he loved her, although it was a love match on both sides (even with the political orchestration by Uncle Leopold).  We know that Albert was always second fiddle, first with his brother than with Victoria and he resented it.  In my opinion, I think it bothered him more than he led on and this manifested itself into his raising of the children.        

Vicky was genuinely V & A's favorite child.  That she was a girl made it easy for Albert to focus on making an important alliance through marriage, and therefore make the impact back in Germany that he couldn't because he was born second.  We know that V & A had a deep affinity for Germany, but I always thought it ran deeper for Albert, and that may have been the reason for his intense grooming of Vicky to marry Frederick.  Just my opinion!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: emeraldeyes on February 20, 2006, 08:34:31 PM
What a timely thread Prince_Lieven...

I am currently reading an old bio of Prince Albert by Reginald Pound.  So far it has been quite illuminating on V&A's relationship.  Prior to beginning this book, I always supposed that the feelings on each side were relatively equal, but now I am not so sure and I am leaning more toward your point of view.  I thnk that while A loved QV, she was really 'in love' ("whatever 'in love' means" ;)...) with him.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: ilyala on February 21, 2006, 03:54:41 AM
i think his love for her was more on the calm side while she was more passionate. which does not mean he did not love her... i suppose in a man-woman relatinoship that happens a lot... most of the time the woman is more passionate...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on February 21, 2006, 04:49:19 AM
I love this thread, Lieven!  :D

I find it so enjoyable to talk about personalities and inclinations rather than clothes and jewellery, though I do love that as well!

I agree that, in my opinion, Victoria was more in love with Albert than he was with her, although he did grow to sincerely love her as his wife with time.  Frankly, Victoria was sexually passionate about him at the start then she began also to appreciate his intellect and leaned on him more and more as time went by.

I agree that Vicky was Albert's favourite child, mainly because she was the only one in the family who could keep up with him on an intellectual level.

I don't agree that Vicky was QV's favourite child, certainly not when Albert was alive - in fact, she was at times quite jealous of Albert and Vicky's close relationship.

QV and Vicky's relationship improved significantly after the death of Albert and with the passage of time as their voluminous correspondence shows.


P.S.  The above opinions do not necessarily reflect the sentiments of others on this thread.  ;D

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: boffer on February 21, 2006, 05:03:39 AM
For this subject what comes to mind is the two part  television depiction entitled "Victoria and Albert". From this a line condences my opinion of the matter. "Marry first, fall in love later". I believe that at first Albert did not have feeling for Victoria however as time went by and with the coming of children his affection deepened. Perhaps he never had a passionate love for her, but he had a deep and caring love that can only be achieved with time and trust.
Also with Victoria it is true that she very much began with a passionate love for him. On the occassion of his first visit to England since her becoming Queen. Her journal, once filled with accounts of her conversations with Lord Melbourne became filled with accounts and discriptions of Albert. "Beautiful blue eyes, an exquisite nose, & a pretty mouth with delicate moutachios & slight but very slight whiskers...most stricking, and he is so amiable and unaffected."
I however also have the opinion that it took time for her to appreicate his qualities and for her to allow him to have some standing within the court. But as time went by the court of her early reign which was a more dignified reflection of the previous regency years turned in the court and society which we typically call the "Victorian Era" when in fact this era relfects Alberts almost puritan personality.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/Bofferding/QueenVictoria-andPrinceAlbert.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on February 21, 2006, 10:31:00 AM
Quote
I love this thread, Lieven!  :D


Thanks Grace! :D

Quote
I find it so enjoyable to talk about personalities and inclinations rather than clothes and jewellery, though I do love that as well!


Me too, I couldn't agree more! ;)

Quote
I agree that, in my opinion, Victoria was more in love with Albert than he was with her, although he did grow to sincerely love her as his wife with time.  Frankly, Victoria was sexually passionate about him at the start then she began also to appreciate his intellect and leaned on him more and more as time went by.


I agree! I think that even if Albert didn't love Victoria in the beginning, he certainly grew to do so! And she was sexually passionate almost to the end - remember, she was 38 when Beatrice was born and was told to have no more children. She said 'does that mean no more fun in bed?' ;D

Quote
I agree that Vicky was Albert's favourite child, mainly because she was the only one in the family who could keep up with him on an intellectual level.


The fact that she was the first born may also have had something to do with it. For some parents, that's important, for other's it's not.

Quote
I don't agree that Vicky was QV's favourite child, certainly not when Albert was alive - in fact, she was at times quite jealous of Albert and Vicky's close relationship.


She certainly was, it's no coincidence that she and Vicky grew closer after Albert died!

Quote
QV and Vicky's relationship improved significantly after the death of Albert and with the passage of time as their voluminous correspondence shows.


Ooops, just noticed you already said what I did above. ;D

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on February 21, 2006, 10:32:13 AM
Quote
i think his love for her was more on the calm side while she was more passionate. which does not mean he did not love her... i suppose in a man-woman relatinoship that happens a lot... most of the time the woman is more passionate...


Great point ilyala! I don't think Albert was the passionate type, though this certainly doesn't indicate lack of feelings! But had Victoria died, I can't see Albert mourning her for 40 years. He was far too dutiful. ;)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on February 21, 2006, 10:33:49 AM
Quote
What a timely thread Prince_Lieven...

I am currently reading an old bio of Prince Albert by Reginald Pound.  So far it has been quite illuminating on V&A's relationship.  Prior to beginning this book, I always supposed that the feelings on each side were relatively equal, but now I am not so sure and I am leaning more toward your point of view.  I thnk that while A loved QV, she was really 'in love' ("whatever 'in love' means" ;)...) with him.  


Yes, as Ilyala points out, I get the feeling that Victoria's feelings for Albert were more . . . extreme, for want of a better word. I mean, I don't think Albert would have been jealous if Victoria had showered attention on Affie, for example, as she was when he spent a lot of time with Vicky.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: emeraldeyes on February 21, 2006, 12:35:44 PM
Interesting quote from a letter from Prince Albert to Stockmar, dated 4 February 1844, shortly after the death of Albert's father:
"Victoria, who feels and shares my grief, is the treasure on which my whole existence rests.  The relation in which we stand to one another leaves nothing to desire.  It is a union of heart and soul."

Well, there it is straight from the horse's mouth.  Seems pretty unambiguous.
I wonder if that sentiment was enduring?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on February 21, 2006, 04:01:17 PM
It certainly does seem to have endured Albert's death as far as V was concerned,  Her apparent nervous breakdown afterward and her resolute and inconsolible widowhood for the remainder of her life say it all.  Widows often did remarry, we should remember, and there never was a hint of this on V's part.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on February 21, 2006, 04:23:55 PM
I also think that Queen Victoria did have a heavy reliance on Albert, on family & state affairs. I also agree that Queen Victoria was more passionate than Albert & I think the image of Queen Victoria as this solemn, prim (& sometimes, priggish) & quiet woman, came about after Albert's death. I think she was quite high-spirited before his death.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 21, 2006, 04:55:11 PM
There was a book, Victoria & Albert by Richard Hough (author of The Mountbattens) that deals just with their relationship.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 21, 2006, 05:00:03 PM
Albert to Victoria 15 Oct 1839 (he was staying at Windsor Castle at the time; it was the day of their engagement)

'Dearest, Greatly Beloved Victoria--I am so touched by the mark of confidence which you give me by sending me your letters and by the loving sentiments towards me which you express in them that I hardly know how to answer you. How is it that I have deserved so much love, so much affection? I cannot get used to the reality of all that I see and hear, and have to believe that Heaven has sent me an angel whose brightness shall illumine my life. Oh, that I may succeed in making you very, very happy, as happy as you deserve to be. In body and soul ever your slave, your loyal, Albert.'

In just this brief, letter I think there's a good bit of observational material. Already, Albert is desirous to be of help to her--the lack of opportunity to do so eventually becoming a major sore point. The last line indicates a more passionate attachment on his part than is often noted, though I do believe that QV was the more emotional of the two. It also repeats a rather submissive tone that was repeated before the marriage and, to a lesser extent as he became more sure-footed in his position, during the marriage. I'm sure others have more to add as well.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 21, 2006, 05:11:04 PM
to his stepmother 5 Nov 1839: 'Apart from my relations with her, my future position will have certain dark sides, and the skies above me wil lnot always be blue and unclouded. Still, life, wherever one is has its storms, and it is a support to one to feel that one has used all one's endeavours and strength in some great object, decisive for the welfare of so many.'

To Stockmar 9 Nov 1839: ' Your prophecy is fulfilled. The event has come upon us by surprise, sooner than we could have expected; and I now doubly regret that I have lost the last summer, whcih I might have employed in many useful preparations, in deference to the wishes of relations, and to the opposition of those who influenced the disposal of my life.'

To his grandmother Duchess Caroline of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg 11 Nov 1839: 'The Queen sent for me alone to her room a few days ago, and declared to me in a genuine outburst of love and affection, that I had gained her whole heart, and would make her intensely happy if I would make her the sacrifice of sharing her life with her, for she said she looked on it as a sacrifice; th eonly thing which troubled her was that she did not think she was worthy of me. The joyous openness of manner in which she told me this quite enchanted me, and I was quite carried away by it. She is really most good and amiable, and I am quite sure heaven has not given me into evil hands, and that we shall be happy together.'

To QV from Calais 15 Nov 1839: I need not tell you that since we left, all my thoughts have been with you at Windsor, and your image fills my whole soul. Even in my dreams I never imagnied that I should find so much love on earth. How that moment shines for me when Iwas close to you, with your hand in mine! Those days flew by so quickly, but our separation will fly equally so.'

to QV from Brussels 17 Nov 1839: 'How happy I shall be when my eyes fall on your dear hand-writing again. I have given orders that a courier shall be sent on to us at once with your letter, and I trust it will catch up with us at Bonn....Farewell, dearest Victoria, I kiss you a thousand times. Leave a little room in your heart for your faithful ALBERT.'
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 21, 2006, 05:17:27 PM
to QV Wiestbaden 21 Nov 1839: 'I cannot imagine how it is that I am the object of so much love and affection. To myself I seem too ordinary, too much lacking in merit, to be enjoying such fortune. For to know that you are so kind to me makes me too happy...we were so happy sitting together there [in her sitting room] on the little sofa. How I would like to be there by magic to cheer your loneliness. I have these days been distracted....and yet none of them can smother the painful feeling of separation.'

To the Duchess of Kent 21 Nov: 'What you say about my poor little Bride sitting all alone in her room, silent and sad, has touched me to the heart. Oh, that I might fly to her side to cheer her!'

To QV Coburg 30 Nov: 'I long to talk to you; otherwise the separation is too painful. Your dear picture stands on my table in front of me, and I can hardly take my eyes off of it. I can sometimes imagine you are answering me, and this thought makes me most happy. Perhaps you think of me when my thoughts are with you....Thinking of you makes me so happy--what a delight it must be to walk through the whole of my life, with its joys and storms, with you at my side! Where love is, there is happiness. Love of you fills my whole heart....I should have written in English, but German runs more easily with me, and as we always spoke in German together during that heavenly time together at Windsor, it does not sound right to me at all to address you in English...Think sometimes with love of your Albert, whose heart beats truly and honourably for you, and whose dearest wish is that your love may continue. Ever and always your faithful, ALBERT.'
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 21, 2006, 05:28:09 PM
to his close friend Prince William of Lowenstein: 6 Dec 1839: 'Yes--I am actually an engaged man! and about the 4th of February hope to see myself untied to her I love!...I think I shall be very happy for Victoria possesses all the qualities which make a home happy, and seems to be attached to me with her whole heart.'

to QV 7 Dec: 'How often are my thoughts with you! The hours I was privileged to pass with you in your dear little room are the radiant points of my life, and I cannot even yet clearly picture to myself that I am to be indeed so happy as to be always near you, always your protector....Now, I must give you a parting kiss, embrace you once more; another look and goodbye. Farewell, dear, dear Victoria, and don't let your love cool for your faithful, ALBERT.'

There are already warning signs though in the letters. Albert frequently makes note of his desire to be a real partner and helpmate, as we know he was to be frustrated in this for a long time. Even QV, who adored him, was rather possessive of her perogatives. In a letter on 10 Dec 1839, there are discussions of his life in England and he tries to allay her worries about making him a peer or playing a political part. 'Let the papers and the people, whoever they may be, be as angry with me as they like; only do not let it cause you to mistrust my love, my honesty and frankness to you....Examine whether I am worthy of your trust; once you believe this, you need never allow yourself to be led astray.' Albert expresses a point which he holds 'much at heart', the desire to pick his own household members. He was to be denied this. He closes the letter by mentioning that he was enclosing a small bracelet for her, 'begging you to think not of the object, but of the feelings of love and attachment it deciates to you. If I could but find words to tell you how warmly my heart beats for you, how my life is only valuable by the thought that it exists for you....ALBERT.'

to QV Coburg 15 Dec 1839: 'You are right--we are too far apart; it makes free correspondence difficult; for one has to wait too long for the answers, and I at least await them with longing. It makes me too happy when I hear from you, and your letters are so sweet, so full of affection and love. I reproach myself so often, because compared with yours my letters are so cold and stiff, and yet I shrink from boring you with my outpourings....let your dear heart think of me sometimes, for that is the great happiness for your faithful, ALBERT.'
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 22, 2006, 07:27:44 PM
Here are some more letters:

to QV 18 Dec 1839: '...thank you for all the love speaking to me through it. Every word from you makes me so happy, and when that word is 'I lov eyou', you can imagine how it charms me....I am very sorry that you have not been able to grant my first request, the one about the gentlemen...for I know it was not an unfair one...and I was justified in hoping you might do me a favour in the matter which tuoches me so nearly....Think of my position, dear Victoria. I am leaving my home with all its old associations,  all my bosom friends, and going to a country in which everything is new and strange to me--men, language, customs, modes of life, position. Except yourself, I have no one to confide in. And is it not even to be conceded to me that the two or three persons, who are to have the charge of my private affairs, shall be persons who already command my confidence?'

to QV 22 Dec 1839: 'One the 12th you wrote that you had no time to write to me; you could only say you loved me unspeakably. To me that is as if you had written a work of twelve volumes!'

to QV 28 Dec 1839: 'Your dear letter...lies before me, and I can scarcely tear my eyes away from it to write to you, for the letter expresses what makes me most happy--that you love me. Accept my most heart-felt thanks....May the year '40, so important to both of us, give you all the blessings that you and, I for you, could desire, and may you in our future marrie dlife find the heaven which I would so gladly make for you on earth....You write that you are longing for me, and do not know how you can bear the separation. Oh! it is the same with me. What cheers me up is music. I send you the song I composed at Windsor; sing it and think of your Albert....'

to QV 31 Dec 1839: 'But why do you say you are unworthy? I would allow no one in the world to say such a thing; therefore I may not suffer it from you, for I cannot hear my dear good Victoria disparaged...You say that to you the whole thing seems to be merely a beautiful dream. It is no better with me. I cannot get it into my head that it is all real, though I trust that the moment when we meet again will thoroughly convince me....'
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on February 23, 2006, 06:22:10 AM
I guess there are no letters from the later days of their marriage since they were never apart.  ;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 23, 2006, 05:08:11 PM
There are some but as you say, not a real need--I just hadn't gotten there.  :)

One of them ( Sept 1854) began 'Dear Little Wife' but wasn't lovey-dovey, more an 'old married folks' letter.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: B5218 on March 04, 2006, 05:22:41 PM
I looked for a thread where this question would be a logical add.  Are there any photos of QV smiling?  Was she ever amused?

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on March 04, 2006, 05:35:34 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Obesemia/QVsmiling.jpg)
There are one or two others also.  I will have a look later if no one else has posted!  :D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 04, 2006, 05:42:03 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/Victorians/VictoriaSmiling.jpg)

There's a famous one of her (in a carriage?) smiling, but I couldn't find it. :P She certainly did get amused! You should read 'Queen Victoria Was Amused', it's a good book!  :)

Edited to add - Grace got it, yay!  :D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on March 04, 2006, 05:48:10 PM
Lovely, Lieven - I haven't seen that beautiful portrait before!  :-*

Queen Victoria actually had quite an acute sense of humour and on occasion, even had trouble containing her laughter.

When she was amused and smiling, she is said to have reminded one of "an amiable field mouse".  ;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 04, 2006, 05:55:17 PM
It was new to me too, Grace, till moments ago!  :D

I found these posts I made on 'Poets, Composers and QV' thread. They might shed some light:

At other times more highbrow performers were engaged. Grieg and Paderewski came to Widnsor to play for her, and she even heard the young Pablo Casals. As her enthusiasm mounted, increasingly ambitious concerts were organised for her and the Waterloo Chamber in Windsor was brought into use. When, in 1889, Albani came down witht the de Reszke brothers, the Queen's pleasure was intense - 'The duet from Lohengrin, which is quite a long scene, was beyond anything beautiful, so dramatic, and Albani almost acted it. She was in great force. The music lasted till four, and I could have listened to it much longer. It was indeed a treat.'

QV read Oliver Twist, 'Which I must say is excessively interesting.'

When she met Dickens years later, she thought him 'very agreeable. He talked about his latest works, of America, the strangeness of the people there, of the division of classes in England, which he hoped would get better in time.' She thought he had a 'large, loving mind.'

'Landseer and Winterhalter were both favourites with the Queen and the Prince. Landseer gave them tips on painting and taught them to etch, hobbies from which they derived keen enjoyment. Thorburn, as Queen Victoria laughingly informed her ladies, was less successful in interpreting the royal taste.

She made us laugh by telling us that when she sat for Thorburn for the first time, she and the Prince had a great deal of trouble about the attitude in which Princess Alice, who was sitting in the Queen's lap, should be painted in, and they did not like Thorburn's idea which was to have her arms spread out, so that the child was really in the shape of a cross, and when the picture was finished, they observed this to him. He said "Yes, I mean it to be allegorical, to represent the Church leaning against the bosom of the State."'

The Times even commented [about a portrait]: 'The Queen's bosom has been most deliciously handled and has been brought out by the artist in full rotundity.'  What would QV have thought after reading that?


All of it comes from 'Queen Victoria was Amused.' ;)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 04, 2006, 08:16:48 PM
The one in the carriage that Grace posted is probably the most famous.


Here's one of my favorites:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/File0464c.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on March 07, 2006, 04:10:17 PM
I really enjoy learning about the life of Queen Victoria, grandmother of our lovely Queen Ena. I was always surprised by the mother of Alexandrina Victoria. As far as I know, she was born princess Marie Louisa Victoire of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld and she was married first to a prince of Leiningen, Carl, twenty-three years older than herself. As a widow of thirty-two years with, correct me if I´m wrong, two sons and a daughter, she marry Edward of Kent, a lot of years older than Victoire too. The duke of Kent was forced to leave behind him his mistress Julie before to marry Victoire. There´s not a fair beginning for a couple, I believe...

Well, after the death of Edward, the unpoverished woman, a strange in the country, was very close to Sir John Conroy. In fact, I have read in other thread that little Drina has as playmates the two daughters of Conroy. The princess, later Queen, grew up feeling more and more hate to the man that controlled the live inside the duchess of Kent house. What do you think about the relationship? I wonder if this relationship caused any perdurable damage on Drina...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 07, 2006, 04:55:10 PM
One small correction - Victoire had only two children, Karl and Feodora, with her first husband.

Personally don't believe the rumours about an affair between Victoire and Conroy, but he was certainly a malign influence on her. Her sister-in-law Princess Sophia was also under his thumb. When she died, she was expected to leave a fortune, but thousands of pounds were unaccounted for. Conroy had been in charge of her finances.  :P
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on March 07, 2006, 06:38:58 PM
I don´t believe the rumours about an affair...but I think that this rumours can give so much pain and grief to a young daughter. I always guessed about the efect  caused by the flying whisperings concerning the duchess and the sir on Fidi and Drina.

I´m triying to understand Drina, later Queen Victoria. She never knew his father, so she deppended so much on her mother. And the relationship with the mother was, from my point of wiew, touched by the rumours...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 07, 2006, 08:02:29 PM
QV very much resented her mother's acceptance of Conroy's imposition of what was called the Kensington system.  Under this, all her contact with the outside world was controlled by Sir John and the Duchess.  The goal was control of V when she became queen by delaying her majority and appointing Conroy as her secretary.  The Duchess was totally under his control and V knew it.  Sir John really poisoned the relationship between mother and daughter.

When she became queen, one of the first things she did was have her bed moved out of her mother's room.  Indeed, the Duchess only saw her daughter twice on the day of V's ascension.  When QV moved to Buckingham Palace, the Duchess was given rooms far away from the Queen, who refused to allow Sir John and his family, including the 2 daughters, into her presence.

This almost total breakdown of relations between the Queen and her mother was only eased when Albert came on the scene.  Sir John never was allowed an audience and the ban on his family was only lifted when he died.

Somehow, however, Sir John accumulated enough money to purchase a fine estate for himself---Both the Duchess of Kent and Princess Sophia had vast sums of unaccounted for funds >:( >:(
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on March 07, 2006, 08:41:52 PM
I don't believe that the Duchess of Kent & Conroy were having an affair, but didn't Lezhen believe that they were? Personally I think that the estrangement between Queen Victoria & their mother was partially instigated by the disputes between Conroy & Lezhen.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 07, 2006, 09:00:16 PM
No, I don't think the Duchess or Princess Sophia, for that matter, were having affairs with Conroy--nor, which is more important, is there any mention that I have heard that QV believed anything of the kind was going on.  Remember, she was quite clear that she did believe Sir John and Lady Flora Hastings were carrying on and that Lady Flora was pregnant and seems to have been quite industrious in spreading the story!!

Lehzen may have quarreled with Sir John, but Stockmar reported to King Leopold that V recognized and resented him as the instigator of the system which made her life unhappy.  Lehzen provided support when V was isolated and alone in the struggle to maintain her birthright.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 08, 2006, 02:48:06 AM
I recommend a fantastic book called "The Young Victoria" by Alison Plowden I think? I read it on holiday and couldn't put it down! loved it! :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 08, 2006, 05:57:30 AM
Because of Conroy and his influence over the Duchess, Drina's relationship with her mother was soured for years. When she married Albert, she hugged Queen Adelaide warmly, whereas the Duchess received only a frigid hand shake. Conroy encouraged the Duchess to keep Drina away from William IV and Queen Adelaide, which was a shame, because they loved her very much. William loathed the Duchess.

When Drina was ill with typhoid when she was 16, Conroy tried to make her sign a document which would make him her private secratary when she was queen. Even though she was ill, Drina refused. William IV also blocked an attempt on the Duchess' part to change the law so that Drina would have to be 21, not 18, to rule without a regent.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 08, 2006, 05:58:38 AM
Apparently she usually was! Didn't one of her grandchildren remark on her shyness once?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on March 08, 2006, 07:50:35 AM
Do you know what felt the duchess Victoria after the fall of Sir John Conroy? Were they still friends since Drina became queen?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 08, 2006, 08:13:07 AM
I'm not sure, but I think he left the Duchess' service when Drina became queen. He died in the 1850s I think.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 08, 2006, 09:10:31 AM
I think the Duchess felt quite guilty. She wrote a nice letter to QV apologising for how she had allowed people to come between them.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 08, 2006, 09:33:49 AM
I just found out the exact figure - 60,000 pounds of the Duchess' money was unaccounted for, and Conroy had asquired estates vastly in excess of his income. Also, I found out that Conroy resigned from the Duchess' household in 1839.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 08, 2006, 12:20:24 PM
Yes, I believe it was Queen Marie who told of visiting her grandmother who "was as shy as us children."  Over the years of her reign there are continuing references to her shaking with nerves at the opening of Parliament, etc. . .and she herself made reference to always being shy.  Probably a reflection of her solitary upbringing.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 08, 2006, 12:30:39 PM
Yesss--he was a snake.  Princess Sophia should have been worth around 400,000 pounds but all the executors of her estate could find was 1,600.  60,000 pounds of the Duchess' vanished under his "stewardship" including 16,000 pounds from her brother, King Leopold, that never found its way into her bank.

He died suddenly in 1854 more or less insolvent--good ridence >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 08, 2006, 12:53:24 PM
Exactly! Poor Princess Sophia - Conroy unashamedly took advantage of a blind, trusting old woman.  :-/ Her income had increased since the death of Queen Charlotte, and again after the death of her sister Augusta, no wonder they expected her to be worth a fortune.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: royal_netherlands on March 08, 2006, 02:38:38 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/vic20.jpg)
Its not a verry cleal picture, ore the smile isnt big.
but she is smilling, the picture was taken by Alexandra.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Margarita Markovna on March 08, 2006, 09:59:55 PM
The link is no longer there, but I think I know which one it is:

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/margaritamarkovna/Romanov%20Photos/QueenVictoriaphotographedbyAlixofWa.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on March 09, 2006, 10:58:35 PM
It's a shame that royalty  rarely smiled for photos. Someone once told me Queen Victoria looked scary-looking (probably because she didn't smile).  I guess you can figure about peoples teeth when they smile.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Janet on March 12, 2006, 11:19:13 AM
Are there any pictures of the Prince Consort smiling?

Or, lacking that, are there even any descriptions of him smiling?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on March 12, 2006, 04:52:13 PM
In some versions of this photo she appears to have a slight smile (http://www.btinternet.com/~sbishop100/alicky2.jpg) Also there are paintings of Albert smiling, but I don't think any photos of him.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 12, 2006, 05:05:44 PM
Albert died while photography was still young. Because of the length of time for poses and the lack of the candid photos we like to see that grew in popularity after his death, there might not be any of him smiling.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on March 12, 2006, 05:19:58 PM
I find it hard not to smile myself when I look at the photograph of baby Olga.  ;D

Even if the Prince Consort had lived another 20 or so years, I doubt whether the camera would ever have caught him smiling.  A sense of humour was not a notable trait in him, except maybe when the children were very young, I believe he found them amusing then.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alicky1872 on March 13, 2006, 03:42:30 AM
There was a little book published in the 70's called Queen Victoria Was Amused, full of charming anecdotes--quite a few to do with Albert as well. (He and QV shared a love of the absurd!) I can't tell you how many times that book had me in stiitches! Excellent book!


Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: dp5486 on March 14, 2006, 05:45:59 PM
I am trying to find a fuller version of this picture of Queen Victoria:(http://)

Can anyone help?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: dp5486 on March 14, 2006, 05:47:01 PM
The picture can be found on http://www.waramps.ca/military/bios/victoria.html.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 15, 2006, 01:35:41 PM
I couldn't find anywhere else to post this question so here goes--for the longest time I have been looking for one volume of the Roger Fulford series of the QV/Vickie correspondence.  I've got all of the rest but do not have "Darling Child--1871-1878".  I've searched Amazon, Powells, etc. . .Does anyone have any suggestions? :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on March 15, 2006, 03:00:23 PM
Quote
I couldn't find anywhere else to post this question so here goes--for the longest time I have been looking for one volume of the Roger Fulford series of the QV/Vickie correspondence.  I've got all of the rest but do not have "Darling Child--1871-1878".  I've searched Amazon, Powells, etc. . .Does anyone have any suggestions? :-/ :-/


Amazon.co.uk has some copies available but they may be a little expensive.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: royal_netherlands on March 16, 2006, 07:15:32 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/75814_120826.jpg)
She is knitting me a scarf. ;D
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/75818_120830.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/75949_122017.jpg)
In mourning.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Booklady on March 16, 2006, 07:24:33 AM
QV and I happen to be the same height--but can anyone guess what she might have weighed?  Her weight really seems to have taken off following Albert's death, and it makes her look even shorter.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: royal_netherlands on March 16, 2006, 07:29:15 AM
Yes youre right Booklady.
 (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/75817_120829.jpg)

royal netherlands :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Cozy aka Susan Flanders, Writer of Queens on March 18, 2006, 03:06:46 PM
Speaking of her weight and height, I recently read that the same crown has been worn at the English coronations---each one altered to fit----except for Queen Victoria. She was just too, too small.  I wouldnt suspect she would have been taller than 5 foot---probably smaller. I've heard too, that she had little, soft hands....
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Cozy aka Susan Flanders, Writer of Queens on March 18, 2006, 03:09:04 PM
whoops! You said you are the same height as the Queen, so you'd know. How tall are you? I have no idea what she might have weighed---guestimate: 170lbs-180 lbs, maybe?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 18, 2006, 03:16:09 PM
Quote
QV and I happen to be the same height--but can anyone guess what she might have weighed?  Her weight really seems to have taken off following Albert's death, and it makes her look even shorter.


Perhaps more out of lack of execercise than excessive eating - didn't she say she hated walking?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Cozy aka Susan Flanders, Writer of Queens on March 18, 2006, 03:39:20 PM
Hi Prince---boy, we are running into eachother everywhere today---LOL---I am not sure about the walking, but I know she loved to ride in her pony cart, almost in any weather, and she loved the cold. I think in about 1883 she had a fall, and she never quite recovered---and then used a cane after that and was helped around.....I dont know how she exercised when she was young. She did swim sometimes, we know. AND yes, she did enjoy her food.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 18, 2006, 03:55:58 PM
Quote
Hi Prince---boy, we are running into eachother everywhere today---LOL


We certainly are! ;)

Quote
---I am not sure about the walking, but I know she loved to ride in her pony cart, almost in any weather, and she loved the cold. I think in about 1883 she had a fall, and she never quite recovered---and then used a cane after that and was helped around.....I dont know how she exercised when she was young. She did swim sometimes, we know. AND yes, she did enjoy her food.


I think Lord Melbourne advised her to walk more, but she said she might get a stone in her shoe, or something.  ???
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 18, 2006, 04:45:36 PM
When she was young she was active, riding horseback, dancing all night, although you are right, Prince, that Melbourne did tell her to walk more.  Judging from the photos and paintings, with the children came some weight gain, and this was noticed even in her first pregnancy.  Apparently she underwent menopause around the time of Albert's death and with that came more weight.  That fall in the 1880s really made her inactive, and she did like her food.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Agneschen on March 18, 2006, 05:10:17 PM
Quote
 Apparently she underwent menopause around the time of Albert's death and with that came more weight.  


It seems that she did not. In Darling Loosy Longford quotes the following letter :

"Pray tell me how you are this time dear child. I am (wonderful to say) become quite regular again !!! It is very uncommon to go on so long. But they say very good". (QV to daughter Louise, May 1875).
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 18, 2006, 05:19:44 PM
She would have been 56 or 57 years old at the time of that letter--are you sure what she was referring to????  Most women have undergone menopause well before reaching that age  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Keith on March 18, 2006, 06:18:40 PM
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/fajack/QueenVictoriadress.jpg)

From In Royal Fashion by Kay Staniland

It dates this dress from 1895-1900. It also says by the late 1890's judging by existing dress QV had shrunk to about 4 ft 7 or 4ft 8. The waists of her dresses measured about 46 inches.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 18, 2006, 06:29:36 PM
Oh dear--there would have been a corset under that 46 inch waist, too. . .
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Keith on March 18, 2006, 06:42:30 PM
According to the book, they are not sure if she wore corsets in her old age. Even younger they say she liked her clothes loose fitting and lightly boned.

A comparison from the time of Albert's death. Princess Beatrice dress and boy is believed to be Prince Leopolds clohting.

The book also goes into detail of how as she got older and more frail, the clothes were made to accomodate her limitations.

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/fajack/QVdress.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 18, 2006, 06:45:31 PM
Quote
She would have been 56 or 57 years old at the time of that letter--are you sure what she was referring to????  Most women have undergone menopause well before reaching that age  :)


I looked it up in the book and Elizabeth Longford (a biographer of QV and editor of Darling Loosy) writes in an author's note that she believes it had to do with menopause.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 18, 2006, 06:51:33 PM
Probably she still wore a corset--it would have been most improper not to!!  Even in pregnancy corsets were worn, just not tightly laced.  I'll bet in her later life that was again the case.  Remember that tightly laced or not, the corset was the foundation garmet ;)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 18, 2006, 07:10:59 PM
Royal anecdote: Queen Mary was visiting a house (I forget whose) and the owner had obtained an old dress of Queen Victoria's. They'd put it on a dressmaker dummy to help keep the shape. Apparently, when QM saw it she immediately started and exclaimed 'where on Earth did you get that?'. It seemed the redoubtable royal lady could still quake in her boots a bit at the 'sight' of QV.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 18, 2006, 07:16:02 PM
Quote

I looked it up in the book and Elizabeth Longford (a biographer of QV and editor of Darling Loosy) writes in an author's note that she believes it had to do with menopause.


Giles St. Aubyn, however, in his discussion of what he believes to have been QV's nervous breakdown after Albert's death states "it also should be remembered that the Queen's psychological breakdown coincided with what the Victorians called 'la temps de la vie' in itself traumatic enough."  He feels her breakdown lasted for most of the 1860s.

There were other bodily functions whose regularity concerned the Victorians; witness nannies fixation on cod liver oil!!

;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on March 18, 2006, 09:04:46 PM
Yes, Longford disagrees with St Aubyn (and other biographers) on this point. In the author's comment she writes 'This letter is important for a fair judgment both of Queen Victoria and Princess Louise. Those biographers who have attributed the Queen's seclusion after the Prince Consort's death to the change of life are clearly mistaken.'
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 18, 2006, 09:39:40 PM
I think what we are dealing with here is differing opinions and interpretations of well respected historians.  Since QV's diaries are gone, thanks to Beatrice's bonfires, we might not ever know who was correct.  

I still think, however, that by the time that letter was written QV would have been 56 or 57 years old.  Most women have gone through menopause by then.  She would have been in her forties and early 50s in the 1860s--when most women undergo the "change."  This on top of loss of the spouse, especially one on whom the wife was sooo dependant on--a breakdown is really understandable under those circumstances :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 18, 2006, 11:15:15 PM
One more thing I just thought of--QV was subject to severe postpartum depression after several of her children's births, of that there is no doubt.  It really does seem like her hormones really took control, and would probably mean that menopause, another time of hormonic upheaval, would have been difficult in the best situations for her.  If this coincided with Albert's death or occurred shortly thereafter--well, one can only imagine what it must have been like. :-/
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Tdora on March 19, 2006, 06:19:25 AM
Quote

There were other bodily functions whose regularity concerned the Victorians; witness nannies fixation on cod liver oil!!

 ;D


QV wrote about this health topic in lavish detail in her frequent reports to Dr Reid. She would inundate him with her preoccupations especially during his occasional holidays away from her side!
The food served at the royal residences was lavish but solid and the high meat content and low fibre would have caused problems to even the most efficient digestions. I wonder also whether a diet like this was deficient in B Vitamins which could have contributed to negative psychological effects of the menstrual cycle and menopause.
QV, like so many of her contemporaries, indulged in 'tonics' and 'stimulants' like the popular Vin Mariani, which relied on cocaine for its efficacy! Can't have helped much, not in the long run...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: bluetoria on March 19, 2006, 06:54:10 AM
Have you read the amusing account in "Ask Sir James" about how Reid suggested that QV should take some kind of meat extract/broth to aid digestion, instead of eating such big meals...sort of a Victorian "Complan" I guess. The Queen did as he suggested...and then ate the big meals as well!!  ;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Cozy aka Susan Flanders, Writer of Queens on March 19, 2006, 08:31:41 AM
Yes, I did hear she ate that soothing, bland sort of cereal prescibed by her physican, and felt better and then ate regular meals, too---she's a riot. Good for her. I have heard she ate so fast, that others couldnt finish---as soon as she was done, they took the course away! She laughed one time, when a guest said, "Hey, give me that back!!"

Speaking of breakdowns, some authors think that during the years when she had children--and suffered from the post partum depressions (and no one really understood it then) that she had a nervous breakdown, fairly young---but that it was kept hush-hush, and at that point Albert took her visiting, to many places, for rest---so that she wouldn't be seen or have pressure. I dont know if thats true.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Cozy aka Susan Flanders, Writer of Queens on March 19, 2006, 08:52:30 AM
Fascinating thread--I agree its so nice to talk about their feelings, rather than the jewels and material things (sometimes)....I dont have all my quotes ready, so I'm saying this from memory, but I think their relationship turned abruptly for the better---when she finally, finally (in her own mind) let Albert be the Master of their Home----which was very important to him---and also, after Vicky's birth she did start relying on him more, to help her with correspondence, replies and he summarized things so she would not have to sit and read eveything, to save her time....She began to trust him implicitly, and it did help that Lord Melbourne told her that Albert had a great mind and that she should share information with him....

Another turning point was when they booted out Baroness Lehzen, to Albert's relief! He didnt care for her, or her influence over their household....

Once she let go, and let him run with the show---they got along much better----she absolutely adored him in every way---and depended on him completely.  I think he loved her greatly too---maybe not in the same way that she idolized him, but in a normal, protective way that a husband would.

His kids loved him too, but Bertie was quite afraid of him. It didnt help that all his life, the point of being "just like his wonderful papa" was shoved down his throat....

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Cozy aka Susan Flanders, Writer of Queens on March 19, 2006, 09:31:06 AM
Great topic. I think its kind of nice that we can only speculate---we will never know for sure how she felt.

I agree that poor Vicky bore much of the brunt of Victoria's grief---Victoria enjoyed her letter writing to Vicky, and after Albert's death it became more important to her. Vicky was really one of the only people she could really speak freely with.

Poor Beatrice!! She was born an outgoing child, but after Albert's death became withdrawn for the obvious reasons. She was Victoria's constant, steadfast companion---and I think its insightful that when she wanted to be engaged to "Liko" Battenberg, Victoria said absolutely not---she would not hear of Beatrice leaving her. After that, they did not speak to eachother, except when it was absolutely neccesary, and even then things were tense. Beatrice wouldnt give in and neither would the Queen. This is something that went on a long time (maybe 5 or 6 months), until Victoria relented and said she would allow the marriage if the couple would live with her. Beatrice agreed. Liko and their subsequent children brought a little joy into the Queen's life once again, so thats comforting.

In those days, yes, it was expected that the mourning period to go on for a longer time than we presently do, but even for Victorian standards, her mourning was LONG. I do think she enjoyed the mourning period for many reasons. One of them is that it gave her a break--she had an excuse to keep away from things that gave her pressure. Personally I really think she was "clinically depressed"---and seriously--but, even if you are seriously depressed, if it is absolutely necessary, usually you can somewhat perform the most necessay things by sheer fortitude, which I think is what she did. I don't think she was vital. I think she was running on "auto-pilot" ---Thats not to say her depression didn't get better. I think it did. I suspect she was very sick for several years---from the letters I've seen, I think so. Just one opinion. Who knows if I am right..

And the death of her "Mama" didnt help....Finally after so many years of disliking her mother and not understanding her motives, they had made peace with eachother and were enjoying a special relationship----thanks to Prince Albert, who genuinely liked Victoria's mother. And then they both died. So sad.

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 19, 2006, 09:43:22 AM
Yes, in common with many prople of her era, QV was preoccupied with the regularity of the digestive tract.  Poor Dr. Reid-- she took his recommendation of Bangers diet(don't have my books around yet this morning, but I think that was its name).  He meant it as a substitution but she used it as an addition to her meals; he must have been at his wits' end!

I'm sure that Vin Mariani made her feel much better; who knows what effect it had on her regularity ;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 19, 2006, 09:57:32 AM
I believe that it was QV who commented that "we love to cling to our grief."  She loved her rituals and grieving in the 19th century had its own schedule of these, extending to the the materials of clothing and the jewelry worn.  Poor Vickie early in her married life was the receiver of many letters from her mother instructing her on what to wear and for how long as various relatives departed this life. . .
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: B5218 on March 19, 2006, 10:13:17 AM
Am I correct when I recall that Queen Victoria was not as sympathetic to Vicky as one might expect when Fritz died? I lent my copy of "Uncommon Woman" to someone and can't look this subject up at the moment.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: nelly on March 19, 2006, 03:11:08 PM
No--she was very sympathetic to Vickie when Fritz passed.  It was when Vickie's third son, Sigi, died that QV brought her daughter up short.  I have thought that she did this because Vickie was becoming frantic with grief over this much loved little boy--although there was an element of selfishness in this, to paraphrase QV--you have lost a son, but still have a husband and other children, but I have lost everything, your loss does not compare with mine. . .
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: ilyala on March 20, 2006, 01:21:43 AM
i find it hard to believe that losing a child is easier than losing a husband, for a woman. i know a simmilar quote from edward 1st when his father died and someone (namely french king louis ix) noticed he was more upset than from losing his child and he replied 'you can always make another child, but you only have one father'. rather cold, if you ask me...

however, back to queen victoria... i don't think there's a more horrible thing for anyone than to lose a child. women are more extrovert about pain, so maybe it's more obvious in a woman, but men too are distressed. i'm not saying losing a husband is not bad, it's also really tragic and i wouldn't wish any of those upon anyone, but a child is your flesh and blood. the whole mother's instinct and all...

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 19, 2006, 06:36:33 AM
Hi everyone. I know this seems like a silly idea for a thread, but while reading Theo Aronson's excellent 'Victoria and Disraeli' I noticed that the author consistently refers to Victoria as 'fair haired'. That strikes me as odd - certainly in all her portraits she's dark haired. It looks that way in photos too, though as someone pointed out before, fair hair doesn't really show up in monochrome photos. So, could we try to gather some contemporary descriptions of Victoria, especially as a young girl, or young woman? Thank you!  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on April 19, 2006, 09:03:38 AM
What a fun topic, Lieven!

The young Victoria:
"The Queen's size is below the middle, but her figure is finely proportioned and a little embonpoint.  Her bust, like most English women's, is very good; hands and feet are small and very pretty.  Her face, though not beautiful, has a look of spirituality, so bright and yet so tranquil that one feels involuntarily impressed with an idea that a good and pure spirit dwells within...Her eyes are blue, large and full; her mouth, which is her worst feature, is generally a little open; her teeth small and short, and she shows her gums when she laughs, which is rather disfiguring".

Also spoken of was her "high colour" or "rosy" complexion and some referred to her having a red face or red nose.  

Of note too, was her voice.  The actress Ellen Terry spoke of it as "like a silver stream flowing over golden stones".  Bernard Shaw also was enchanted by her "beautiful voice", "first rate delivery" and marvellous clarity.

Haven't found anything yet about her hair colour, though.  :-[  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 19, 2006, 09:24:29 AM
Thanks Grace!  :D

'Embonpoint' is a term I've come across a few times - does anyone know what it means?  :-?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grantj on April 19, 2006, 09:33:38 AM
I know this isn't on topic, but I thought it quite a funny.  I've got a book of quotes including one about Queen Victoria taken from an Alan Bennett work entitled "Forty years on" (which I have never heard of!).  It goes something like this:

Lady D:  Is there anything in the newspaper this morning, Withers?

Withers: They have named another battleship after Queen Victoria, ma'am.

Lady D: Another? She must be beginning to think there is some resemblance.

Well, it appealed to my sence of humour anyway!

Grant
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Agneschen on April 19, 2006, 09:51:09 AM
Quote
'Embonpoint' is a term I've come across a few times - does anyone know what it means?  :-?
"Embonpoint" means "stoutness" in French.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Agneschen on April 19, 2006, 10:02:15 AM
Here is how Queen Louise-Marie of the Belgians described QV to her mother Marie-Amélie after first meeting her :
"Victoria is of diminutive size ... but plump and graceful. I do not think her pretty. She has got large blue eyes, beautiful hair a shade darker than mine [Louise's hair was blond so I guess Victoria's must have been light brown] & bloom rather than a lovely skin. But her mouth is ugly and the lower part of her face short and square. She looks a lot like the Duke of Kent [her father] and the English royal family. I guess she must look like Charlotte [King Léopold's first wife] but less pretty".
Louise later added : "The more I see Victoria the prettier I find her. She is nice & pleasing and her face is charmingly sweet".
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: royal_netherlands on April 19, 2006, 10:37:01 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/10004956a.jpg)(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/10109328a.jpg)
The first one wenn she was twelve years old and the second one at the time of her coronation.

RN
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 19, 2006, 11:20:44 AM
Thanks RN and Agneschen! RN, I've never seen that picture of her aged 12, she certainly looks quite blond in it. Oh, and Grant, that appeals to my sense of humour too!  ;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on April 19, 2006, 11:36:20 AM
I always thought of Victoria as being dark haired too! It seems that her hair darkened as she got older, though, because she said of Prince Albert when she first met him:

'his hair is about the same colour as mine'.

Unless I'm mistaken, Albert had dark hair, did he not?

I had blonde hair as a child and my hair is now very dark brown.  Perhaps that's what happened to Victoria because in all paintings of her as an adult her hair is depicted as being brown.

It's very annoying not having colour photos of royals during that era!

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Kimberly on April 19, 2006, 11:42:54 AM
I remember reading years ago, that Leopold of the Belgians was rather concerned about her small stature and also the way in which she gobbled her food.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on April 20, 2006, 05:26:09 PM
There was a comment about Queen Victoria from the Empress Dowager of China. "I have heard much about Queen Victoria & read a part of her life which someone has translated into Chinese...still I do not think her life is as half as interesting as mine. Now look at me, I have 300 million people all dependent on my judgement."
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: ilyala on April 21, 2006, 08:22:31 AM
i cannot remember the quote and since the book is huge i can't find it but in stanley weintraub's book (read it recently, that's why i'm quoting so much from it... but it's very good!) it says that when turned a teenager, her mother was worried that her hair was turning darker (apparently fair-haired ladies were preferred). so, indeed, it must have been that she was initially light-haired and turned dark-haired... i know people who are like that too
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on April 22, 2006, 12:09:34 PM
This has been bugging me for ages.

Queen Victoria was christened Alexandrina Victoria, and she was nicknamed 'Drina' as a child.

So, why did she choose to take Victoria as her name when she became Queen rather than Alexandrina? Was there a specific reason why she couldn't, or did she just prefer Victoria?

Queen Alexandrina sounds rather nice, I think! ;)

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Christopher on April 22, 2006, 12:13:59 PM
She didn't like it!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on April 22, 2006, 12:39:13 PM
In my own opinion Alexandrina probably reminded Victoria of her depressing & lonely childhood, as well as her uncles, who were always involved in some scandal or another.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Yseult on April 22, 2006, 12:51:10 PM
I just can speculate...

Alexandrina was choosen to honoured the godparent of the Kents baby...the tsar Alexander I of All the Russias. The king George IV was really unfair to his brother Edward and his siter in law Victoria the day they christened their newlyborn daughter...Edward suggested a lot of names connected with the english royalty, as Charlotte, Georgiana and Elizabeth, but the king declared that she would be named Alexandrina for the godparent. And, then, he suggested -perhaps ordered...- the second name would be the same of the mother.

But Drina never liked the russians...I imagine that, while she grew up, she heard a lot of coments about the ill-fated Juliane of Saxe-Coburg, sister of her mother. So, when she refused the first name and adopted the second name, she was rejecting the russians and, by the way, honouring her mother. At this time, Drina was not so lovely and gentle with her mother...but maybe it was a little confort to the dowager duchess of Kent.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 22, 2006, 01:06:07 PM
I think Prince Christopher is right - she just didn't like the name. As a child, she was called 'Drina' and liked that name, because I think I remember reading that when her mother started calling her 'Victoria' she didn't like it. But of course, she couldn't be 'Queen Drina' and 'Queen Alexandrina' wasn't an option because she didn't like it, and 'Queen Alexandrina Victoria' is quite a mouthful! Interestingly (to me at least) she was officially titled 'Her Majesty Queen Victoria' throughough her reign, even though 'Her Majesty the Queen' would have been more traditional.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on April 22, 2006, 01:41:13 PM
Thanks everyone! :)

So a mixture of her not liking it just because she didn't like it, and also the Russian connection as a subsidiary cause.

And that is interesting that she was always referred to by name, Liam! I wonder why that was?

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Christopher on April 22, 2006, 03:34:47 PM
On top of just not liking it, I think the Russian origin of the name was quite distasteful to her as well....

I'm not sure, maybe Prince Lieven can confirm it, but I don't think any of her children carried any derivative of the name in their name strings at all (Alexander, Alexandra, Alexandrina, etc.).  

Once she became queen, it just sort of disappeared.

(I happen to like the name Alexandrina, and Alexander and Alexandra as well...)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 22, 2006, 04:33:12 PM
Quote

I'm not sure, maybe Prince Lieven can confirm it, but I don't think any of her children carried any derivative of the name in their name strings at all (Alexander, Alexandra, Alexandrina, etc.).

Yes, you're quite right - Bertie's daughters Louise and Toria had it in their names ('Alexandra') but that came from their mother of course.

Quote
(I happen to like the name Alexandrina, and Alexander and Alexandra as well...)

Me too, and Queen Alexandrina would have been unique to say the least! That said, until Victoria and her mother, the name 'Victoria' was virtually unknown in Britain, and no previous British princesses had ever been called it, or even had it as a middle name.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Agneschen on April 22, 2006, 06:27:09 PM
I have read that, as a child, Victoria was called "Drina" but also "Vickelchen" by her mother. Can anyone confirm that ?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Christopher on April 22, 2006, 09:04:14 PM
I think the name "Victoria/Viktoria" was just coming into vogue on the continent.  I also tend to think that it was a wartime name, of course meaning "victory", similar to people naming their daughters "Irene", meaning "peace", during wartime as well.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: B5218 on April 25, 2006, 09:28:22 PM
From "Albert" by Reginald Pound

Elizabeth Barrett Browning

Count it enough, thou noble Prince, who tak'st by the hand,
And claimest for thy lady-love our lady of the land!
And since, Prince Albert, men have called thy spirit high and rare,
And true to truth, and brave for truth, as some at Augsburg were,
We charge thee by thy lofy thoughts, and by thy poet mind,
Which not by glory and degree takes measure of mankind,
Esteem that wedded hand less dear for sceptre than for ring,
And hold her uncrowned womanhood to be the royal thing.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on April 26, 2006, 09:37:59 PM
One teacher told me, upon seeing a photo of Queen Victoria from the 1890's, "She's scary looking!"
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on April 27, 2006, 05:42:03 PM
Does anyone know her Height and Weight?? :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Christopher on April 28, 2006, 06:30:37 AM
I've been rereading Life with Queen Victoria: Letters from Court, by Marie Adeane Mallet.  Marie was a lady-in-waiting to QV and the book is absolutely a must read for QV fans.

It is a firsthand account and is full of personal tidbits about the queen and some of her family, esp. Princess Beatrice and Princess Helena, Vicky, and also some about Empress Eugenie, who was in exile.  Very witty and honest, and keeps one laughing.  

I will extract some details and write more this weekend.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Leuchtenberg on April 30, 2006, 12:20:19 AM
Quote
Does anyone know her Height and Weight?? :)


4 feet 11 inches.   181 pounds    

This from "The Flight of the Romanovs".
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Christopher on May 06, 2006, 10:43:33 AM
From Mallet's Letters from Court: (I found this amusing)

"At dinner the Queen and the Empress [Vicky] discussed the state of the Italian Army with much heat, contradicting each other so vigorously that we all shook with internal laughter, it was most amusing to see two people who are never contradicted, playing the game with each other.  Neither gave way and the altercation ended by the Queen turning to Princess Beatrice and the Empress to Sir F. Lascelles and continuing their pet arguments in an undertone."

Balmoral. October 28th, 1898
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 06, 2006, 02:02:20 PM
Quote
From Mallet's Letters from Court: (I found this amusing)

"At dinner the Queen and the Empress [Vicky] discussed the state of the Italian Army with much heat, contradicting each other so vigorously that we all shook with internal laughter, it was most amusing to see two people who are never contradicted, playing the game with each other.  Neither gave way and the altercation ended by the Queen turning to Princess Beatrice and the Empress to Sir F. Lascelles and continuing their pet arguments in an undertone."

Balmoral. October 28th, 1898

How funny! thank you for that. I can't find the quote but i think it's in Carolly Ericksons (sp?) biography on QV. There is an interesting  contemporary acount of QV and mentions how she wore so many rings (even on her thumbs!!!) that she had trouble getting her gloves on!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Christopher on May 06, 2006, 02:49:43 PM
Oh, I've read that somewhere too about the rings....there are lots of amusing things about her and her habits.

From Marie Mallet's description, QV seems really almost childlike in many ways, and she described her as "angelic" several times in the last few months of her life.

When she was advised that economization needed to be practiced on the household coffers, she cut down the number of different kinds of bread served at breakfast.  Also, her bed was apparently broken in some way and her maids kept after her to have it fixed but she refused, continuing to sleep on the broken bed.

In 1900, her household was trying to get her to eat better, as she was eating lots of roast beef and much chocolate ice cream.  Someone tried to entice her to eat something called Benger's Food (I don't know what this is but suppose it to be some kind of cereal or something for old people).  QV tried it, liked it, and, to everyone's horror, instead of substituting it for something, ADDED it to her already copious meals.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: gogm on May 06, 2006, 07:07:23 PM
I read she was 4' 9". It is said that was short even back then. The second picture in Royal Netherlands' post may be from the 1858 or 1859 Winterhalter portrait that can be seen at:

http://www.intofineart.com/admin/images/new8/Franz%20Xaver%20Winterhalter-787295.jpg .

For her coronation picture zoomed in to show her head from Hayter's impressive portrait, see:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Queen_victoria.jpg .

The entire coronation portrait is at:
http://jaguar.ir.miami.edu/~jximenes/VictoriaHayter.jpg .
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Duke_of_Lynnwood on May 17, 2006, 10:34:50 PM
Quote
Here is how Queen Louise-Marie of the Belgians described QV to her mother Marie-Amélie after first meeting her :
"...But her mouth is ugly and the lower part of her face short and square. She looks a lot like the Duke of Kent [her father] and the English royal family. I guess she must look like Charlotte [King Léopold's first wife] but less pretty"...

Does anyone have any pictures of portraits of The Duke of Kent (Prince Edward) her father and the Princess Charlotte of Wales? I've never really seen any. Have you ever got that feeling that you heard so much of someone and you feel like things are incomplete because u don't know what they look like?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: royal_netherlands on June 04, 2006, 11:11:40 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/QV614.jpg)
Can some one identify the women walking in the procession?

RN
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on June 04, 2006, 02:27:51 PM
Queen Alexandra is directly behind and I believe she's flanked by Helena and Louise. I think the next row would have Beatrice, Dss Connaught (in the middle--there are other photos that are clearer which show her) and either Marie Coburg or Helen Albany. Then there's Toria, May and, I think, Maud. Perhaps whoever wasn't in the 2nd row was next. All were at QV's deathbed, I believe, including Marie Coburg.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Michael_II on June 04, 2006, 06:02:40 PM
Quote
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/QV614.jpg)
Can some one identify the women walking in the procession?

RN
Not to be picky, BUT, I believe the caption is wrong on this being the arrival at Paddington station.  I believe it is the arrival at the pier in Cowes, Isle of Wight.  The books that I have read on Queen Victoria's death and funeral all have this picture and the women didn't walk in the procession to Paddington.  Also Princess May, Duchess of York didn't leave the Isle of Wight, but stayed with her husband Prince George who had a case of the German measles.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on June 04, 2006, 09:21:19 PM
It's not picky to correct a misidentification like that.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: pouvoir aux canard on July 07, 2006, 08:47:19 AM
Queen Victoria was in France for some meetings with Emperor N.III (and later with french President(s); also she went to Nice for many years, and I guess there were other travels (purhaps Biarritz?? Normandie ???)...

Pictures about these events (mainly about the meetings with governants) exists (coloured illustrations, photo, pages of newspapers...)  Also reports...  

The season in Nice is also fairly documented by reports but I cannot find any good (large)photography of the Great Queen in Nice (neither in Nice where my family lives). Did anyone has ??

In Nice, she was beloved by the people because she helped  so many girls to marry, giving money, ecc. Each year she went to their Feast (in May).
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 07, 2006, 11:13:01 AM
I remember reading that Queen Victoria's main concern whenever she was visiting with Napoléon III were his wandering hands. I do believe that there was at least one occasion when he actually pinched the queen's backside

David
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Taren on July 07, 2006, 12:00:54 PM
Quote
I remember reading that Queen Victoria's main concern whenever she was visiting with Napoléon III were his wandering hands. I do believe that there was at least one occasion when he actually pinched the queen's backside.

And she still let him keep his hand?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: pouvoir aux canard on July 07, 2006, 12:38:53 PM
...Queen Victoria's main concern whenever she was visiting with Napoléon III were his wandering hands ;D ;D ;D.

So cute !!! The newspapers said nothing about that !!!  :-[ :P But I remember now I have read that it was the main concern of any woman presented to N.III. Even Pauline de Metternich (not so pretty as Winterhalter painted) was obliged to go back his husband (Austrian Ambassador) during the parties at Saint-Cloud... But N.III  tried also with VICTORIA !!! :-[ ;D ::)

I have to study chapter "Help" of this site to be able to insert pictures and quotes, then...

C-C

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Guinastasia on July 07, 2006, 03:48:02 PM
Considering the huge crinolines and skirts women wore at that time, would he even be able to get ahold of her backside to pinch?

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: pouvoir aux canard on July 07, 2006, 04:16:37 PM
you are right, but that is purhaps one of the reasons for the fashion to change after 1860.  :-*

Anyway, if the hands were not on the backside, they where elsewhere. N.III is said to change this attitude only after the defeat of 1870 (he was 68) during his exile in england...  :( ...  :To have or not to have power...  :'(
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 07, 2006, 04:25:32 PM
At the National Maritime Museum, London one can find this painting:

(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8748/bhc06377000lt.jpg)

Napoleon III Receiving Queen Victoria at Cherbourg, 5 August 1858

Description

Between 4 and 8 August 1858, the Emperor Napoleon III and the Empress Eugenie visited Cherbourg. On their arrival, they inaugurated the railway line linking the town to Paris. The following day, 5 August, they welcomed Queen Victoria and Prince Albert who had been invited to view the opening of the Arsenal's second basin, called the Napoleon III basin.

This is a French artist's representation of the Emperor, wearing the full-dress uniform of a French admiral, receiving Queen Victoria on board the French flagship, 'Bretagne', at Cherbourg for a banquet. He stands at the top of the gangway, waiting to receive his guests, who have arrived by royal barge and are waiting at the bottom of the gangway. Napoleon III was anxious to demonstrate to his British guests that his improvements to the naval base at Cherbourg did not constitute a threat to Britain. Thus, he invited Victoria and Albert, together with several politicians and naval officials, to inspect the improvements as a mark of trust.

The 'Bretagne' is shown in starboard-bow view at anchor in the centre of the painting, decked overall with flags and flying the Royal and the Imperial Standards. The deck is lined with French sailors waving their hats and there are also sailors in the rigging. In the centre foreground, the royal and imperial barges have been positioned, together with other French and English vessels, some dressed overall. To the right of Queen Victoria's barge, is a barge flying the Imperial Standard, full of French sailors waving their hats in salute. Other ships in the harbour are also firing salutes and there are other smaller craft full of spectators. The town and fortifications of Cherbourg are implied on the right. The Queen and the Prince Consort travelled to France in the Royal Yacht 'Victoria and Albert', escorted by a large squadron of ships. They cut short their visit to Cherbourg partly because they were not prepared to stay until 8 August to witness the inauguration of the equestrian statue of Napoleon I by Armand de Veel. This evocation of French-English conflicts was further exacerbated by Victoria's perception of the superiority of the French Navy. Thus, the visit had the exact opposite effect to that intended by Napoleon III and the British returned home infuriated. After reading a damning report drawn up for her by Sir John Pakington, First Lord of the Admiralty, Victoria wrote a severe letter to Lord Derby, the Prime Minister, criticizing the state of Britain's navy.

The artist was born at Quimper, near Brest, and he became well known for his views of the Normandy coast. The picture is signed and dated 'Jules Noël 1859', bottom right, and bears an inscription about the visit bottom left.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 07, 2006, 04:39:43 PM
At the Chateau de Compiegne one can see this painting by Louis Armand:

Réception de la reine Victoria au port de Boulogne-sur-mer par Napoléon III, le 18 août 1855

(http://
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5972/0127ka.jpg)

L’année 1855 est une année décisive dans l’histoire des relations entre la France et l’Angleterre. Aux yeux de Napoléon III, l’alliance anglaise est l’un des objectifs majeurs de sa politique extérieure. C’est pourquoi il s’est engagé dans la guerre de Crimée aux côtés des Britanniques contre les Russes, le 27 mars 1854. Un an plus tard, alors que le contingent franco-britannique s’épuise dans l’interminable siège de la forteresse de Sébastopol, la visite à Londres du couple impérial apparaît comme un symbole fort de l’alliance entre les deux pays. Débarqué à Douvres, le 16 avril, le couple impérial y est accueilli par le prince consort Albert, avant de rejoindre la reine Victoria dans sa résidence de Windsor, puis d’être fastueusement reçu à Buckingham.

    Les Londoniens, venus en masse assister à leur traversée à pied de la capitale, leur réservent un accueil très enthousiaste. Victoria se dit charmée dans son Journal par Napoléon III : « Il est l’empereur, écrit-elle, sans y tendre le moins du monde. » Mais cette visite d’État comporte aussi un volet diplomatique, le 18 avril, lorsque les souverains et leurs principaux ministres se réunissent pour élaborer la suite des opérations de Crimée, Napoléon III se laisse convaincre de ne pas se rendre à Sébastopol, comme il en avait l’intention, afin de ne pas confisquer à son profit le prestige de la victoire.

Celle-ci n’est pas encore acquise lorsqu’Albert et Victoria, accompagnés de leur fils, viennent à leur tour en France, le 18 août, à l’occasion de l’Exposition universelle de Paris. Accueillis par Napoléon III à Boulogne, ils vont connaître pendant une dizaine de jours une succession de cérémonies officielles et de divertissements : soirée à l’Opéra, fête dans la galerie des glaces de Versailles, réception et banquet à l’Hôtel de Ville… Victoria va même s’incliner devant le tombeau de Napoléon Ier aux Invalides. Plus de 800 000 Parisiens l’acclament, et le préfet Haussmann lui dédie l’avenue Victoria, entre l’Hôtel de Ville et le Châtelet.

Le 8 septembre, la prise de Sébastopol couronne l’année de l’Entente cordiale entre les deux souverains.


Written by:

Jean Garrigues
professeur à l’université d’Orléans
président du Comité d’histoire parlementaire et politique
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: aussiechick12 on July 07, 2006, 04:58:24 PM
 :) Thank you David!

Painting of Queen Victoria in France 1891.

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/aussiechick12/Windsors/Queen%20Victoria/QueenVictoriaonvisittoFrance1891.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on July 07, 2006, 07:17:01 PM
The book Queen Victoria and the Discovery of the Riviera (by Asa Briggs, I think) is a very detailed look at QV's travels in France. Also David Duff wrote Victoria Travels, which goes into some depth about her visits to France, and I think it was also covered in the book Travels with Queen Victoria by Sarah, Duchess of York.

Needless to say, the trips were covered in the many magazines of the day with photos and sketches.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: pouvoir aux canard on July 07, 2006, 07:18:50 PM
Wonderfull documents, pictures and texts ! Thank you.

The last one purhaps is a cover of an issue of "LE PETIT JOURNAL ILLUSTRé" (dayly issues - weekly illustrated) ??

C-C
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Faberge on July 09, 2006, 11:37:43 PM
That Vickie ! What would Madame Pompaudor have said then?

(http://nylon.net/sabrina/bits/queen-sabrina.jpg)

Albert said, "Ohh lala."

(http://www.patourism.co.za/images/albert_saxe.JPG)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alicky1872 on August 05, 2006, 08:49:08 AM
I'm starting this new topic, mainly to ask a question. Since many members of this forum have been priviledged enough to view the photographs in the Royal Archives at Windsor--I was wondering if anyone had ever come across a photo of Prince Albert and his grandchildren--Willy and Charlotte of Prussia. (Am I right in thinking he did see Charlotte before he died?) It seems odd to me that no photos of this kind have been published before.

What kind of a grandfather do you think Prince Albert would have been had he lived? Do you think he would have particularly influenced any of his grandchildren's lives in a different way? (Willy especially comes to mind here...)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on August 05, 2006, 12:47:31 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a picture but if PA saw Charly, it was just once--if I remember the letters between QV & Vicky correctly. The demands on QV & PA prevented visiting Germany except once or twice and the Prussian royal family was very stringent in granting permission for Vicky & Fritz to travel to England, especially with the children. This could account for the lack of photos. Based on letters between QV & Vicky, it seems that photos were exchanged, but that made up the bulk of the connection between PA and his grandchildren in those few short years--less than 3.

It's hard to say the effect he would've had. The German Emperor, and Bismarck, were pretty determined to keep the English royal family, and their influence, at bay. While QV still managed to exert some influence over him, she had a much more determined and forceful personality than Prince Albert. WII may have wound up seeing Albert much the way he did his parents.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Aliss_Kande on August 05, 2006, 12:59:16 PM
I do know PA saw Willy and Charly, because Vicky thought they were special or something, since they were the only two PA was able to see.  As for pictures, I do know of pictures with Vicky, Willy, and Charly taken while they were visiting england, but I haven't seen any with either of their grandparents.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on August 05, 2006, 01:12:28 PM
I went and dragged my books of letters down and found this:

Charly was born in July 1860 and QV and PA visisted Coburg in either Sept/Oct of that year. Vicky was able to take Wilhelm (and QV wrote much of him in a letter after they returned) but Charly wasn't allowed to accompany them. QV wrote 'it is really too stupid and foolish of Wegner not to allow her to travel...It seems really as if he had done it on purpose to disappoint me.' In early 1861 she pleads with Vicky to be able to travel to England so the Duchess of Kent can see the children--planning on June or July--but the Duchess dies that March. QV writes it was 'one of the great sorrows is that she never saw your children...if only you had come last winter!' Vicky goes to England but it doesn't seem she brought the children. Finally that summer the family was able to go to England for 7 weeks. QV writes to Vicky after she returns about 'how we doted on the precious little darlings.'
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alicky1872 on August 05, 2006, 01:23:14 PM
Thank you GDE!

I'm sure there was at least one photo sitting. Would you let a visit with your first grandchild(ren) pass without at least one photograph taken to mark the occasion? I do hope some photos are found...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Agneschen on August 05, 2006, 05:26:25 PM
Need to check but it seems to me that Pce Albert saw both Willy & Charlotte, probably during his last visit to Coburg. I remember Vicky writing to QV after Albert's death that she was glad her father had seen and carried her children.
Pce Albert seems to have been a caring and attentive grandfather to Willy when they met. Vicky wrote to QV that Willy liked to swing his doll in a handkerchief singing "see saw" to it (just as Pce Albert had done with him) and that he said "see saw" each time he saw a picture of his maternal grandfather. This letter is quoted in the first volume of JC. Röhl's bio of Wilhelm. I also remember QV writing that Willy was Albert's "great favourite" or something of the kind.
I have always wondered why there were so few pics of Albert with his children when he seemed to have been much closer to them than the Queen. But maybe some are hidden in the Windsor archives.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on August 05, 2006, 06:13:17 PM
According to the letters between QV & Vicky, Charlotte wasn't allowed to visit her maternal grandparents during their visit to Coburg. Albert didn't visit after the  1860 trip did he? As far as I could tell, the only time was during the 7 week trip in the summer of 1861.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alicky1872 on August 06, 2006, 05:49:00 AM
Pce Albert seems to have been a caring and attentive grandfather to Willy when they met. Vicky wrote to QV that Willy liked to swing his doll in a handkerchief singing "see saw" to it (just as Pce Albert had done with him) and that he said "see saw" each time he saw a picture of his maternal grandfather. This letter is quoted in the first volume of JC. Röhl's bio of Wilhelm. I also remember QV writing that Willy was Albert's "great favourite" or something of the kind.

 :'( What a precious story! Thank you Agneschen. As you may know, QV's gift to Willy upon his confirmation was a picture of Albert. One only wishes Albert's spirit had guided his eldest grandson in a different direction.


I have always wondered why there were so few pics of Albert with his children when he seemed to have been much closer to them than the Queen. But maybe some are hidden in the Windsor archives.

Yes, he was definitely closer to Vicky and Affie. The other children knew he loved them, but they were very much in awe of him. But yes--where are the pictrues? Albert had his photograph taken even before QV did, in the 1840's. He was fascinated with photography, so it seems so strange that more photos of him haven't come to light (yet!)...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: lady on August 20, 2006, 07:39:58 AM
This is a young Vincent Price as Prince Albert. Great!
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/gavimar/23e2.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Taren on August 20, 2006, 04:35:27 PM
Was this from a film or a play? It is a rather striking likeness.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on August 20, 2006, 07:20:21 PM
Was this from a film or a play? It is a rather striking likeness.


IMO, Vincent is better looking than Prince Albert.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Viscount on August 20, 2006, 08:34:36 PM

Let us not forget - Robert Hardy in the brilliant 1975 TV serial EDWARD THE SEVENTH.  It was first broadcast on TV between April and June 1975. In the US it was shown under the title 'Edward the King'.

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/protectedimage.jpg)

Edward the Seventh was a TV drama series, made by ATV in 13 one-hour episodes and is one of my most watched DVDs!!!!!!!!!!

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/56B5987278.jpg)

Based on the biography of Edward VII by Sir Philip Magnus, it starred: Timothy West as the elder Edward VII and Charles Sturridge as Edward in his youth, Annette Crosbie as Queen Victoria, Deborah Grant and Helen Ryan (almost a twin!) as Queen Alexandra (the former as a young woman, the latter in later life), Robert Hardy as the Prince Consort, and Felicity Kendal as Princess Vicky (later Empress Frederick of Germany)

It was directed by John Gorrie, who wrote episodes 7-10 with David Butler writing the remainder of the series.  Francesca Annis was featured in two episodes as Lillie Langtry which lead to Butler writing a full series about Mrs. Langtry's life for Ms. Annis to star in entitled Lillie which is another treasured DVD.

But with all these adaptations - the REAL thing is magnificent!!!!!

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/PrinceAlbert3Winterhalter2.jpg)


The Viscount

The Viscount

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Leuchtenberg on August 20, 2006, 08:39:46 PM

Let us not forget - Robert Hardy in the brilliant 1975 TV serial EDWARD THE SEVENTH.  It was first broadcast on TV between April and June 1975. In the US it was shown under the title 'Edward the King'.



Edward the Seventh was a TV drama series, made by ATV in 13 one-hour episodes and is one of my most watched DVDs!!!!!!!!!!


Based on the biography of Edward VII by Sir Philip Magnus, it starred: Timothy West as the elder Edward VII and Charles Sturridge as Edward in his youth, Annette Crosbie as Queen Victoria, Deborah Grant and Helen Ryan (almost a twin!) as Queen Alexandra (the former as a young woman, the latter in later life), Robert Hardy as the Prince Consort, and Felicity Kendal as Princess Vicky (later Empress Frederick of Germany)




The Viscount




Viscount, thank you for mentioning this.  I did not know that the series was available on DVD.  Guess who is now going internet shopping.   ;D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Guinastasia on August 20, 2006, 08:43:17 PM
Let's not forget Jonathan Firth in Victoria & Albert.  Sadly, I don't have any pictures.

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Viscount on August 20, 2006, 08:53:10 PM

Let us not forget - Robert Hardy in the brilliant 1975 TV serial EDWARD THE SEVENTH.  It was first broadcast on TV between April and June 1975. In the US it was shown under the title 'Edward the King'.



Edward the Seventh was a TV drama series, made by ATV in 13 one-hour episodes and is one of my most watched DVDs!!!!!!!!!!


Based on the biography of Edward VII by Sir Philip Magnus, it starred: Timothy West as the elder Edward VII and Charles Sturridge as Edward in his youth, Annette Crosbie as Queen Victoria, Deborah Grant and Helen Ryan (almost a twin!) as Queen Alexandra (the former as a young woman, the latter in later life), Robert Hardy as the Prince Consort, and Felicity Kendal as Princess Vicky (later Empress Frederick of Germany)




The Viscount




Viscount, thank you for mentioning this.  I did not know that the series was available on DVD.  Guess who is now going internet shopping.   ;D

I should get a commission???  hahaha ... just joking - its been on DVD for a while in the UK and its fab.  I was only 6 when it came out on TV and it was on Sunday evenings and rushing back from Portsmouth (where my father was in the Royal Navy) and where I was born....  with my mother was the challenge we had every week.  POST VIDEO RECORDERS!!!! OMG....  I sound so old.................

Its a truly fantastic series - happy watching!!!!

And to get us back on track with this thread - apologies for the reminiscing (have I spelt that correctly???)............

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/albertsaxe.jpg)


The Viscount
 
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Viscount on August 20, 2006, 09:02:22 PM
Let's not forget Jonathan Firth in Victoria & Albert.  Sadly, I don't have any pictures.



I found some pics of JF as Prince Albert.............

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/firth17.jpg)

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/firth18.jpg)

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/firth12.jpg)


and of course the real thing!!!!!!

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/427px-Prince_Albert-1842.jpg)


The Viscount
 
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Taren on August 20, 2006, 09:25:34 PM
Was this from a film or a play? It is a rather striking likeness.


IMO, Vincent is better looking than Prince Albert.

TampaBay

I don't think either are particularly good looking. To me, the good looking one is Jonathan Firth, even though I've heard that a lot of people were dissatisfied with his performance (or maybe it was Victoria Hamilton's performance?).
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on August 20, 2006, 10:11:54 PM
Another from Victoria & Albert

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/B00005O7N8.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on August 20, 2006, 10:12:53 PM
At the start, I was put off by the fact that Victoria Hamilton looks nothing like the real Victoria in Victoria and Albert but I did enjoy it and thought she and Jonathan Firth did a good job in their roles.

I agree with Viscount -- Edward VII is a must see, is brilliant and something Victorian royalty lovers must have -- the series is not that expensive to buy either!!  :D
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Guinastasia on August 21, 2006, 11:50:18 AM
Really?  I thought Hamilton looked a bit like Victoria when she was young.

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on August 21, 2006, 04:59:37 PM
Well, Victoria Hamilton was slim, had brown eyes and a retrousse nose, if I remember.

However, different people see different things.  :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Guinastasia on August 21, 2006, 07:04:56 PM
Yeah, they probably could have plumped her up a bit and given her contacts.  But what can you do?

I felt disappointed initially when I first saw Rasputin, the HBO miniseries, because I didn't think Ian McKellen (whom I didn't know of, at the time) looked enough like Nicholas, but after I watched it, he truly was the best Nicky I've seen.

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Caleb on August 31, 2006, 06:16:34 PM
I get the feeling that Albert also had a good relationship with Princess Alice as well. Didn't she spend quite a bit of time taking care of him in his last days?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 05, 2006, 09:24:13 AM
Not to get of topic but I was suprised that Queen Victorias half brother died before the Duchess of Kent. How did the Duchess of Kent react? And Victoria too?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Viscount on September 05, 2006, 02:25:16 PM
I saw this lovely pic in a recent book which I bought -

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/N01919_9.jpg)

The portrait is by Henry Tanworth Wells and is in the Tate Gallery, London and is a romantic view of the occasion when HRH Princess Victoria of Kent is informed that she has succeeded to the Throne.

I think it is wonderful.  I assume the lady in the shadows of the doorway is HRH The Duchess of Kent (Victoria's mother) ? realising that she has lost control over her daughter...... 


The Viscount
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 05, 2006, 02:28:02 PM
Yes that is a lovely picture. Thank you for posting it Viscount. I saw that on a cigarette card once. Maybe the lady in the shadows is dependable old Lehzen? Though it does rather look like the Duchess of Kent.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on September 05, 2006, 07:38:41 PM
I saw this lovely pic in a recent book which I bought -

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/N01919_9.jpg)

The portrait is by Henry Tanworth Wells and is in the Tate Gallery, London and is a romantic view of the occasion when HRH Princess Victoria of Kent is informed that she has succeeded to the Throne.

I think it is wonderful.  I assume the lady in the shadows of the doorway is HRH The Duchess of Kent (Victoria's mother) ? realising that she has lost control over her daughter...... 


The Viscount


Is that the Duke of Wellington with the white hair?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 06, 2006, 04:11:26 AM
Has anyone else read "The Young Victoria" by Alison Plowden? Its about 20 years old but a very good read :) Highly recommended...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Viscount on September 06, 2006, 11:11:46 AM
I saw this lovely pic in a recent book which I bought -

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/N01919_9.jpg)

The portrait is by Henry Tanworth Wells and is in the Tate Gallery, London and is a romantic view of the occasion when HRH Princess Victoria of Kent is informed that she has succeeded to the Throne.

I think it is wonderful.  I assume the lady in the shadows of the doorway is HRH The Duchess of Kent (Victoria's mother) ? realising that she has lost control over her daughter...... 


The Viscount


Is that the Duke of Wellington with the white hair?

TampaBay

The chap with the white wig is the Archbishop of Canterbury (William Howley), the other being the Lord Chamberlain (The Rt Hon Sir Francis Conyngham, KP, GCH, 2nd Marquess Conyngham)... having left Windsor Castle in the early hours to get to Kensington Palace to advise the Princess of the death of her uncle (King William IV) and that she was Queen etc.


The Viscount
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: emeraldeyes on September 06, 2006, 02:55:53 PM
Lovely pic viscount, thank you for sharing it.  Can I ask what book it is from?

I've recently returned from a trip to Nova Scotia.  We took a tour of the provincial legislature and there was a large painting of QV in the main hall.  Hanging beside the painting was a handkerchief of the Queen's that had turned up in a Halifax antique shop some years ago.  The owner's daughter gave it to the province to display. 

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/emeraldeyes1969/Picture145.jpg)(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/emeraldeyes1969/Picture146.jpg)

You can see that it is monogrammed only "V.R." so this must have been from pre-empress days.  The tour guide also told us that QV had one arm that was shorter than the other and she tried to disguise this fact by holding handkerchiekfs or fans.  I've never heard that before, does anyone know anything further about this??
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on September 06, 2006, 03:16:02 PM
Great photos, thanks EE! That portrait looks like it was based off one of the well-known photos of QV--either her Jubilee one or the one from GV's wedding.

I've never heard about the arm or read it any books. Considering WII's withered arm, you'd think that would've showed up in the correspondence between Vicky and QV.  :-\ There are a lot of photos of QV and there didn't seem to be a problem with her arm.

Carrying fans, flowers, parasols, etc...was pretty common then. I think that sometimes it was a matter of not knowing what to do with your hands when standing around at ceremonies or while being photographed. I remember looking through 100s of photos of QM trying to find on of her hand so I could see her engagement ring and it was really difficult! She almost always had something in her hand, or her hand covered or in her lap, etc...I finally turned up a couple but not really at an angle to see the ring, except in 2--and even they weren't very clear. 

There's a copy of the portrait of Victoria at age 18 in various books on her--I think there's one in the Lytton Stratchey illustrated bio.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: emeraldeyes on September 06, 2006, 03:48:10 PM
I thought it was rather strange that in all my reading I had never come across that particular tidbit; I think I am going to erase it from my storage bank of possible Final Jeopardy answers. 
I may also email the Nova Scotia legislature people to ask if they can cite a source for that information, after all if they're telling all the tourists that come through that buliding something that is incorrect, that's not cool.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Viscount on September 06, 2006, 06:24:19 PM
Lovely pic viscount, thank you for sharing it.  Can I ask what book it is from?

I've recently returned from a trip to Nova Scotia.  We took a tour of the provincial legislature and there was a large painting of QV in the main hall.  Hanging beside the painting was a handkerchief of the Queen's that had turned up in a Halifax antique shop some years ago.  The owner's daughter gave it to the province to display. 

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/emeraldeyes1969/Picture145.jpg)(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/emeraldeyes1969/Picture146.jpg)

You can see that it is monogrammed only "V.R." so this must have been from pre-empress days.  The tour guide also told us that QV had one arm that was shorter than the other and she tried to disguise this fact by holding handkerchiekfs or fans.  I've never heard that before, does anyone know anything further about this??

The book which I saw the pic is THE CORONATION BOOK OF QUEEN ELIZABETH II (ISBN 0-7537-1449-3), published in 2006 - but is a super "facsmilie" of what was published in 1953 - pre-Coronation etc....   The pic however is in b&w - the colour version I managed to get on the Tate Gallery website.

I had never seen that pic before.... enchanting I thought!!!!

Hope that helps.


The Viscount
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RomanovFan on September 21, 2006, 05:45:23 PM
Queen Victoria’s Children & Grandchildren

1. HRH Princess Victoria Adelaide Mary Louise, b. 1840 m. Frederick III of Prussia, 1858
        a. Freiderich Wilhelm Viktor Albert, b. 27 January 1859
        b. Viktoria Elisabeth Augusta Charlotte, b. 24 July 1860
        c. Albert Wilhelm Heinrich, b. 14 August 1862
        d. Franz Freiderich Sigismund, b. 15 September 1864
        e. Frederika Amelie Wilhelmine Viktoria, b. 12 April 1866
        f. Joachim Freiderich Ernst Waldemar, b. 10 February 1868
        g. Sophie Dorothea Ulrike Alice, b. 14 June 1870
        h. Margarete Beatrice Feodora, b. 22 April 1872

2. HRH Prince Albert Edward, b. 1841, m. Alexandra of Denmark, 1863
        a. Albert Victor Christian Edward, b. 8 January 1864
        b. George Frederick Ernst Albert, b. 3 June 1865
        c. Louise Victoria Alexandra Dagmar, b. 20 February 1867
        d. Victoria Alexandra Olga Mary, b. 6 July 1868
        e. Maud Charlotte Mary Victoria, b. 26 November 1869

3. HRH Princess Alice Maud Mary, b. 1843 m. Ludwig IV of Hesse-Darmstadt, 1862
       a. Victoria Alberta Elisabeth Mathilde Marie, b. 5 April 1863
       b. Elizabeth Alexandra Louise Alice, b. 1 November 1864
       c. Irene Luise Maria Anna, b. 11 July 1866
       d. Ernst Ludwig Karl Albert Wilhelm, b. 25 November 1868
       e. Feiderich "Frittie" Wilhelm, b. 7 October 1870
       f. Victoria Alix Helena Louise Beatrice, b. 6 June 1872
       g. Marie "May" Viktoria  Beatrice Leopoldine, b. 24 May 1874

4. HRH Prince Alfred Ernst Albert, b. 1844, m. Marie Alexandrovna of Russia, 1874
      a. Alfred, "Young Alfie" Duke of Edinburgh, b. 15 October 1874
      b. Marie "Missy" Alexandra Victoria, b. 29 October 1875
      c. Victoria Melita "Ducky", b. 25 November 1876
      d. Alexandra Louise Olga Victoria, 1 September 1878
      e. Beatrice "Bea" Leopoldine Victoria, b. 20 April 1884

5. HRH Princess Helena Augusta Victoria, b.1846, m. Christian of Schleswig-Holstein, m. 1866
      a. Christian "Christele" Victor Albert Ludwig Ernst Anton, b. 14 April 1867
      b. Victoria Louise Sophia Augusta Amelia Helena, b. 3 May 1870
      c. Francisca Josepha Louise Augusta Marie Helene Christina, b. 12 August 1872

6. HRH Princess Louise Caroline Alberta, b. 1848, m. John Campbell, Marquess of Lorne, 1871

7. HRH Prince Arthur William Patrick Albert, b. 1850, m. Louise of Prussia, 1879
     a. Margaret Victoria Charlotte Augusta Norah, b. 15 January 1882
     b. Arthur Frederick Patrick Albert, b. 13 January 1883
     c. Victoria Patricia Helena Elizabeth, b. 17 March 1886

8. HRH Prince Leopold George Duncan Albert, b. 1853, m. Helena of Waldeck-Pyrmont, 1882
    a. Alice Mary Victoria Augusta Pauline, b. 25 February 1883
    b. Charles Edward George Albert Leopold, b. 19 July 1884

9. HRH Princess Beatrice Mary Victoria Feodora, b. 1857, m. Henry von Battenburg, 1885
   a. Alexander Albert, 23 November 1886
   b. Victoria Eugenia Julia Ena, b. 24 October 1887
   c. Leopold, b. 21 May 1889
   d. Maurice, b. 3 October 1891
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on September 21, 2006, 05:51:23 PM
It was Victoria's grandson, Kaiser Wilhelm II who had one shortened arm due to a birth injury ... there are various portraits of the queen sans fans, etc.

I thought it was rather strange that in all my reading I had never come across that particular tidbit; I think I am going to erase it from my storage bank of possible Final Jeopardy answers. 
I may also email the Nova Scotia legislature people to ask if they can cite a source for that information, after all if they're telling all the tourists that come through that buliding something that is incorrect, that's not cool.

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Taren on September 21, 2006, 06:02:54 PM
Queen Victoria’s Children & Grandchildren

1. HRH Princess Victoria Adelaide Mary Louise, b. 1840 m. Frederick III of Prussia, 1858
        a. Freiderich Wilhelm Viktor Albert, b. 27 January 1859
        b. Viktoria Elisabeth Augusta Charlotte, b. 24 July 1860
        c. Albert Wilhelm Heinrich, b. 14 August 1862
        d. Franz Freiderich Sigismund, b. 15 September 1864
        e. Frederika Amelie Wilhelmine Viktoria, b. 12 April 1866
        f. Joachim Freiderich Ernst Waldemar, b. 10 February 1868
        g. Sophie Dorothea Ulrike Alice, b. 14 June 1870
        h. Margarete Beatrice Feodora, b. 22 April 1872

2. HRH Prince Albert Edward, b. 1841, m. Alexandra of Denmark, 1863
        a. Albert Victor Christian Edward, b. 8 January 1864
        b. George Frederick Ernst Albert, b. 3 June 1865
        c. Louise Victoria Alexandra Dagmar, b. 20 February 1867
        d. Victoria Alexandra Olga Mary, b. 6 July 1868
        e. Maud Charlotte Mary Victoria, b. 26 November 1869

3. HRH Princess Alice Maud Mary, b. 1843 m. Ludwig IV of Hesse-Darmstadt, 1862
       a. Victoria Alberta Elisabeth Mathilde Marie, b. 5 April 1863
       b. Elizabeth Alexandra Louise Alice, b. 1 November 1864
       c. Irene Luise Maria Anna, b. 11 July 1866
       d. Ernst Ludwig Karl Albert Wilhelm, b. 25 November 1868
       e. Feiderich "Frittie" Wilhelm, b. 7 October 1870
       f. Victoria Alix Helena Louise Beatrice, b. 6 June 1872
       g. Marie "May" Viktoria  Beatrice Leopoldine, b. 24 May 1874

4. HRH Prince Alfred Ernst Albert, b. 1844, m. Marie Alexandrovna of Russia, 1874
      a. Alfred, "Young Alfie" Duke of Edinburgh, b. 15 October 1874
      b. Marie "Missy" Alexandra Victoria, b. 29 October 1875
      c. Victoria Melita "Ducky", b. 25 November 1876
      d. Alexandra Louise Olga Victoria, 1 September 1878
      e. Beatrice "Bea" Leopoldine Victoria, b. 20 April 1884

5. HRH Princess Helena Augusta Victoria, b.1846, m. Christian of Schleswig-Holstein, m. 1866
      a. Christian "Christele" Victor Albert Ludwig Ernst Anton, b. 14 April 1867
      b. Victoria Louise Sophia Augusta Amelia Helena, b. 3 May 1870
      c. Francisca Josepha Louise Augusta Marie Helene Christina, b. 12 August 1872

6. HRH Princess Louise Caroline Alberta, b. 1848, m. John Campbell, Marquess of Lorne, 1871

7. HRH Prince Arthur William Patrick Albert, b. 1850, m. Louise of Prussia, 1879
     a. Margaret Victoria Charlotte Augusta Norah, b. 15 January 1882
     b. Arthur Frederick Patrick Albert, b. 13 January 1883
     c. Victoria Patricia Helena Elizabeth, b. 17 March 1886

8. HRH Prince Leopold George Duncan Albert, b. 1853, m. Helena of Waldeck-Pyrmont, 1882
    a. Alice Mary Victoria Augusta Pauline, b. 25 February 1883
    b. Charles Edward George Albert Leopold, b. 19 July 1884

9. HRH Princess Beatrice Mary Victoria Feodora, b. 1857, m. Henry von Battenburg, 1885
   a. Alexander Albert, 23 November 1886
   b. Victoria Eugenia Julia Ena, b. 24 October 1887
   c. Leopold, b. 21 May 1889
   d. Maurice, b. 3 October 1891


A few minor corrections: Alice's daughter, Elisabeth's, name has an s. Helena also had two more children: Albert John Charles Frederick Arthur George (1869-1931) and Frederick Christian Augustus Leopold Edward Harald (b&d 1876). I'm positive that  the Battenberg boys had middle names, but I haven't been able to find them yet. Also, one of Beatrice Battenberg's middle name's is Feodore. No a -she was named after Queen Victoria's half sister, Feodore. Nice list though!  :)

edit: I think I found it. Leopold Arthur Louis and Maurice Victor Donald. I believe their sister was Victoria Eugenie Julia Ena. In addition, Bertie and Alexandra of Wales had another son, Alexander John Charles Albert (b&d 1871)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 26, 2006, 04:37:23 AM
Do any photos exist of Queen Victorias half sister Princess Feodora? I'm sure they must, she didn't die until 1872.  Any photos of them together?

Also QV's reaction to Alices death is well documented in her journal. Did she write a similar entry when Leopold died?? Would love to read it, she wrote so nicely.

Thank you in advance :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: ilyala on September 26, 2006, 04:44:49 AM
i googled but i could only find this portrait:

(http://www.btinternet.com/~sbishop100/feo.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: imperial angel on September 26, 2006, 10:51:21 AM
I have always liked that portrait of Feodora. She was very pretty, by the standards of the day, and does look very much like her mother, the Duchess of Kent, who was a handsome woman. Queen Victoria looked more Hanoverian, sadly. Feodora was quite nice in personality as well, from what I have read. She and Victoria were close when they were young.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 26, 2006, 12:55:51 PM
I believe QV and Feodora were close all their lives and their letters survive. I think I did read that Feodora tired of QVs prolonged mourning though.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on September 26, 2006, 01:36:22 PM
There were a good number of portraits of Feo and her family in one of the old, disappeared threads--I don't think anyone came up with any photos though.

Feo and QV were very close and QV was extremely happy every time that Feo had a chance to come to England.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Guinastasia on September 26, 2006, 01:43:51 PM
Wasn't Dona of Germany Feo's granddaughter?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on September 26, 2006, 02:55:25 PM
Yes. Feo's daughter Ada married 'Fritz' Holstein who was himself a close friend of Vicky and her Fritz. Fritz was Christian of Schleswig-Holstein's brother--Christian married QV's daughter Helena. QV was in contact with Feo during the 'sounding out' period and Feo was able to convey information about Christian obtained through his brother. So not only was Helena Wilhelm II's aunt but Christian was Dona's uncle.

Duchess of Kent--Feo--Ada m. Fritz Holstein--Dona m. Wilhelm II
Duchess of Kent--Queen Victoria--Vicky m. FIII--Wilhelm II

Sandra's husband Ernst of Hohenlohe-Langenberg, who married Affie's daughter Sandra, was also a grandchild of Feo's.

Duchess of Kent--Feo--Herman--Ernst m. Sandra
Duchess of Kent--QV--Affie--Sandra m. Ernst

Another son of Feo's, Victor, married an English girl, Laura Seymour and resided in England. She was given the title of Countess Gleichen though QV sometimes referred to her as Princess Victor. The Gleichens, being related to both Helena and Christian, were very close to their children. The Gleichen daughters were bridesmaids when Marie Louise married Aribert of Anhalt and were often seen with various members of the British royal family and at different family events. It was actually just a few weeks after attending Victor's funeral in Dec 1891 (bareheaded in the freezing cold and rain) that Eddy sickened and died.

One last connection, Feo's daughter, Feo Jr, married George II of Saxe-Meiningen. She was thus the stepmother to Bernhard of SM who married Vicky's daughter Charlotte. Feo Jr died, however, before that marriage actually took place.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: carl fraley on September 28, 2006, 01:14:14 PM
I know that the Sovereigns Wills are never published but does anyone have any idea how HM Queen Victoria's will was broken up?  I mean what type of settlements did her surviving children get?  It had to be pretty substantial to enable her children to live in comfort until their deaths in the 40's. 

Especially interested in the DUchess of ALbany and what if any she recieved?

I'm sure Victoria's will must have been pretty long...   ANy insight?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Keith on September 28, 2006, 01:23:01 PM
Sorry, don't know much except that Beatrice was left Osborne Cottage and Louise Argyll Kent House. All of the children, I believe, would have received money from the Civil List. I would think she would have left them some money also, but don't know for sure. Helen Albany still should have been receiving money from the Civil List.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: carl fraley on September 28, 2006, 01:29:06 PM
If that's the case... Didn't HRH the Duchess of Kent's allowance cease when the Duke of Kent died in the plane crash??  It's a shame that the Wills of the Sovereigns doesn't fall under the freedom of information act.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: alixaannencova on September 28, 2006, 01:57:46 PM
I believe that Lenchen recieved at least £70,000 in trust as QV wished to leave her £100,000 in capital to ensure future security. This would have been based on the fact that Lenchen hadn't nibbled too much in to her dowry!

QV was very much preoccupied with her childrens' financial welfare though as is evident, it would be hard to find out exactly how much each of her children got.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Keith on September 28, 2006, 02:02:12 PM
Not sure about the Duchess of Kent.

Beatrice sold Osborne Cottage in 1912, so she would have had that money in addition to whatever she had received from QV.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Keith on September 28, 2006, 02:11:44 PM
Just checked my book on Marina, and the Duke's allowance did end with his death as no provision had been made for widow's when George VI Civil List had been made up at the beginning of his reign. Maybe Helen Albany wasn't on the Civil List, unless she was included when EVII came to the throne?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 28, 2006, 02:48:27 PM
Lenchen also received Cumberland Lodge and Schomberg House (Pall Mall), I think.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on September 28, 2006, 02:59:28 PM
Cumberland Lodge was grace and favor home that belonged to the sovereign.  After Helena's death, Edward VII lent the house to Lord Derwent.  George VI and Queen Elizzabeth turned the lodge over to a foundation.

I think Schomberg House was a lease because Marie Louise was still living there in 1931. In 1947, she and her sister sold items from Schomberg House.

Lenchen also received Cumberland Lodge and Schomberg House (Pall Mall), I think.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on September 28, 2006, 03:02:42 PM
More about Schomberg House


http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=40615


Lenchen also received Cumberland Lodge and Schomberg House (Pall Mall), I think.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on September 28, 2006, 03:08:45 PM
Actually,  it was in 1913 when Beatrice was finally able to sell Osborne Cottage by "private treaty."  The estate had to be broken up in three lots, I think .. the first time the cottage was offered for sale, it did not sell.

Not sure about the Duchess of Kent.

Beatrice sold Osborne Cottage in 1912, so she would have had that money in addition to whatever she had received from QV.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: carl fraley on September 28, 2006, 03:16:13 PM
I know that HM Queen Victoria did take great strides to secure the $$ future of her remaining children outside of Bertie & Vicky .  I know that Louise inherited "Kent Cottage" I think is the proper name and she in turn gave it over to her neice The future Marchioness of Milford haven.  What happened to it after Victoria MF took it?  Louise and Beatrice still had their homes in Kensington Palace and Louise would have also had her Dower House(Castle) as Dowager Duchess of Argyll and I think Beatrice and Titular Governor of Wight , could have use Carisbrooke Castle any time she wanted to ?? Am I right with that?

According to "Queen Victoria's Daughters" Louise pretty much blew through her dowry, and I don't see any reason why Beatrice or Helena would have had to go through theirs much.   I'm sure that the Duke of Connaught had a Civil List Allowance, and Clarence Houe and victoria bought bageshot park for him as well but I also wonder what he inherited from Victoria.

Since Prince Leopold died before his mother, i wonder what parts Princess Alice and Charles, Duke of ALbany got as their Father's share of her estate?


Since we know also that Marina's allowance was stopped at the death of her husband... What did she live off of??  how did she afford to keep Coppins House for many years after his death??
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 28, 2006, 03:19:11 PM
Queen Mary was pretty generous to Marina, I think.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: carl fraley on September 28, 2006, 03:22:53 PM
I know this is a little off topic too but I'm sure HM Queen Mary was pretty well off but did the Queen make better arrangments for her other Aunt HRH the Duchess of Gloucster when her uncle henry died?



Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 28, 2006, 03:24:56 PM
I think she got about £80,000 a year.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on September 28, 2006, 03:25:31 PM
As most of my books are packed, I cannot look things up -but there are plenty of books on Marina, most notably one by Sophia Watson ... Marina sold a lot of stuff at auctions -

I know that HM Queen Victoria did take great strides to secure the $$ future of her remaining children outside of Bertie & Vicky .  I know that Louise inherited "Kent Cottage" I think is the proper name and she in turn gave it over to her neice The future Marchioness of Milford haven.  What happened to it after Victoria MF took it?  Louise and Beatrice still had their homes in Kensington Palace and Louise would have also had her Dower House(Castle) as Dowager Duchess of Argyll and I think Beatrice and Titular Governor of Wight , could have use Carisbrooke Castle any time she wanted to ?? Am I right with that?

According to "Queen Victoria's Daughters" Louise pretty much blew through her dowry, and I don't see any reason why Beatrice or Helena would have had to go through theirs much.   I'm sure that the Duke of Connaught had a Civil List Allowance, and Clarence Houe and victoria bought bageshot park for him as well but I also wonder what he inherited from Victoria.

Since Prince Leopold died before his mother, i wonder what parts Princess Alice and Charles, Duke of ALbany got as their Father's share of her estate?


Since we know also that Marina's allowance was stopped at the death of her husband... What did she live off of??  how did she afford to keep Coppins House for many years after his death??
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on September 28, 2006, 03:26:04 PM
Alice had money in her own right.

I know this is a little off topic too but I'm sure HM Queen Mary was pretty well off but did the Queen make better arrangments for her other Aunt HRH the Duchess of Gloucster when her uncle henry died?




Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Marlene on September 28, 2006, 03:26:39 PM
That was aher civil list alloacation, which paid for her staff, etc.  She did not pocket the money

I think she got about £80,000 a year.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: carl fraley on September 28, 2006, 03:32:51 PM
So Alice's money came from her Father?? the Earl of bucheleiu (Spelling?)  well atleast she didn't have to struggle.


Back to the Original Topic.... haha..

When HM the queen Died Alice, Affie, Leopold were dead, were their children entitled to their parents portions?

Anyone also know who Victoria left her most prized possession to ?? (Her Wedding Veil) ?  I wonder too what happened to all of hers and Prince Alberts personal effects... Did they go to the V&A Museum?

We all know that Bertie (is is disrespectful for me to refer to him that way) or should I say HM King Edward VII did with Osborne, and that HM George V didn't want it so it was turned over to the state.  HM QV apartments were locked off, but what rooms are still locked off??  DId any family members ever stay in the main house after that or visit the "Sacred Apartments"
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 28, 2006, 03:35:58 PM
I think Beatrice wore Victoria's wedding veil for her own wedding, so maybe she inherited it.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: alixaannencova on September 28, 2006, 04:40:25 PM
With regqards to Schomberg House...Thora and Loue had joint life interests as per QV's will - dated 1900. they relaine ther until 1948 when Louie had a house clearence and mobe to the pre-arranged  Fitzmaurice flat that the sisters had already planned to occupy during the hostilities!


Q V had setteled the leashold 5proper) of Schomberg House upon Lenchen in 1900!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Keith on September 28, 2006, 06:50:00 PM

Anyone also know who Victoria left her most prized possession to ?? (Her Wedding Veil) ? 

I thought I had read it was placed over her body in her coffin. I was checking "Ask Sir James" and all it mentions is a veil was place over her, but doesn't specify (that I can tell) if it was her wedding veil or another.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Leuchtenberg on September 29, 2006, 10:11:06 AM
Author Richard Hough wrote that Queen Victoria's will brought Victoria Milford Haven an "increase" of £2000  a year.  That would be about £65,000  in today's money.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Keith on September 30, 2006, 04:59:23 PM
I know that HM Queen Victoria did take great strides to secure the $$ future of her remaining children outside of Bertie & Vicky .  I know that Louise inherited "Kent Cottage" I think is the proper name and she in turn gave it over to her neice The future Marchioness of Milford haven.  What happened to it after Victoria MF took it? 

According to "The First Mountbattens" VMH sold Kent House after the death of LMH.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Aliss_Kande on October 03, 2006, 10:13:22 AM
Montage of QV's Family (http://www.antique-photos.com/3009132.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: NoirFemme on August 31, 2007, 07:58:11 AM
I was reading Patsy: The Story of Mary Cornwallis West by Tim Coates and the book opens describing Prince Albert's affair with a female courtier. I've looked at the bibliography, but as this is only book in which I've read this story, I question its authenticity. Has anyone ever come across the story of Prince Albert and Olivia Taylour?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: dmitri on August 31, 2007, 08:48:07 AM
Prince Albert never had an affair. He was far too staid to ever contemplate such a thing. He was devoted to his wife. It was his brother Ernst who had the affairs and plenty of them.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on August 31, 2007, 05:20:37 PM
We are talking about the man who said himself that the thought of extra-marital affairs made him physically ill.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: dmitri on August 31, 2007, 08:17:47 PM
and he was the same man who went down to the university where his eldest son was to berate him for his extra-marital affair
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 31, 2007, 10:59:23 PM
He was too much of a prude to have an affair, imo.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: NoirFemme on September 12, 2007, 08:21:15 PM
Added: I just came across a passage in Daisy Pless's second set of diaries where she asks Bertie(Edward VII) if it's true her grandmother Olivia was banished from court for chasing after Prince Albert.

Who truly knows?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on September 12, 2007, 08:44:05 PM
Added: I just came across a passage in Daisy Pless's second set of diaries where she asks Bertie(Edward VII) if it's true her grandmother Olivia was banished from court for chasing after Prince Albert.

Who truly knows?

NoiFemme,

Olivia. should not take it personally.  I have been banished from every descent court yet always manage to get invitied back!! LOL! LOL! (I need those smileys back)  ;D ;D ;D

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: imperial angel on September 12, 2007, 10:54:56 PM
I doubt that is true. Most likely it was gossip that found it's way into this book.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on September 12, 2007, 11:08:11 PM
Added: I just came across a passage in Daisy Pless's second set of diaries where she asks Bertie(Edward VII) if it's true her grandmother Olivia was banished from court for chasing after Prince Albert.

Who truly knows?

Daisy Pless queried in her diary whether her grandmother Olivia was banished from court for chasing after Prince Albert?

How is this information convincing in any way that Prince Albert might have had an affair?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: NoirFemme on September 14, 2007, 05:05:32 AM
Added: I just came across a passage in Daisy Pless's second set of diaries where she asks Bertie(Edward VII) if it's true her grandmother Olivia was banished from court for chasing after Prince Albert.

Who truly knows?

Daisy Pless queried in her diary whether her grandmother Olivia was banished from court for chasing after Prince Albert?

How is this information convincing in any way that Prince Albert might have had an affair?

Well not to say my word is final, but I'm just connecting two anecdotes: one from Olivia's granddaughter and one from a biography of Daisy's mother. So it leads me to believe two things: a) the author of Patsy misinterpreted Daisy's ancedote or b) he had access to archives no one has tapped into. Granted no other biography of Victoria or Albert that I've read have even mentioned a whiff of an indiscretion on Albert's part, but I can't say something never happened if I wasn't there.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historylover on September 14, 2007, 07:03:53 AM
I always thought that Prince Albert was too stuffy to have an affair.  However, sometimes that sort of man can be quite hypocritical.

Best Regards,
Lisa
www.webwritereditor.com
www.bookaddiction.blogspot.com
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on September 14, 2007, 07:46:06 AM
Since Tim Coates has a miniscule bibliography and several passages of outright fiction in his 'biography' of Patsy Cornwallis West, I wouldn't take his fantasizing on Lady Olivia Fitzpatrick/Prince Albert very seriously.  He seems to have taken the annecdote in Daisy's diaries as a spring-board for far more than a rather flimsy story warranted.  Edward VII, according to the diaries, teased Lady Olivia Fitzpatrick (she was the daughter of the Marquis of Headfort) about a 'flirtation' which she gracefully evaded, and that was the end of it.  As you say, NoirFemme, there's no suggestion in any other diaries or memoires of the time that this did actually happen.  

None of us were actually present at any of these events (or non-events) but I don't think that prevents informed speculation.  "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk" as Thoreau put it, and from the lack of any evidence except family tradition, I think we can be pretty confident that the milk is free from adulteration and Albert's reputation remains intact.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: dmitri on September 14, 2007, 07:58:56 AM
I doubt you will find any information on any affair of Prince Albert. I have never seen any information in any reputable biography stating such an event.   
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: joan_d on September 14, 2007, 01:19:00 PM
Please do not denigrate Prince Albert's memory by common tittle tattle of an affair. I am a huge admirer of Prince Albert. He is worthy of much more enlighted discussion.   As an English woman, I have always said that England had far more from Prince Albert than Prince Albert had from England.   It was a tragedy for the whole country (Not just his wife) that he died at such a younger age.  I would like to see a major biography of this incredible man - his life was cut far too short for everyone concerned.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: dmitri on September 14, 2007, 11:44:14 PM
I agree with you. There are a number of very good biographies about Albert already. By the way have you had the chance to visit Osborne House on the Isle of Wight? It is truly a gem. You get a real feel of Albert and Victoria there.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: joan_d on September 15, 2007, 12:57:20 PM
Yes I have Dmitri - have been on three separate occasions and, as you say, you can really feel Albert's influence in every inch of the place.  For anyone who can get there easily, I would recommend a visit.  I have admiration for Albert on many fronts - overcoming a very sad and lonely childhood, being able to cope with QV and the fact that for his time, he was a wonderful father.   Admittedly he made errors with PoW, but I feel he was doing it for all the right reasons - he just didn't have the material to work !  His two eldest daughters on whom he had the most influence were remarkable women by any standards - a testament to their father I feel.

Back to the original posting, given his sad childhood where his own parents had split up due to affair/s, he had a particular horror of marital infideltity and he would not have jeopardised his own or QV's position  by indulging in such deception.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on October 19, 2007, 09:20:51 PM
There is an auction at Christie's of the property of Angela Lascelles. Included is this portrait of Queen Victoria:

(http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lotfinderimages/d49812/d4981244r.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RomanovFan on October 23, 2007, 11:22:18 PM

A few minor corrections: Alice's daughter, Elisabeth's, name has an s. Helena also had two more children: Albert John Charles Frederick Arthur George (1869-1931) and Frederick Christian Augustus Leopold Edward Harald (b&d 1876). I'm positive that  the Battenberg boys had middle names, but I haven't been able to find them yet. Also, one of Beatrice Battenberg's middle name's is Feodore. No a -she was named after Queen Victoria's half sister, Feodore. Nice list though!  :)

edit: I think I found it. Leopold Arthur Louis and Maurice Victor Donald. I believe their sister was Victoria Eugenie Julia Ena. In addition, Bertie and Alexandra of Wales had another son, Alexander John Charles Albert (b&d 1871)

Hi Taren. Yeah, you're right about Helena and Beatrice's boys---Helena had two more (I completely forgot about them!) and I just found the middle names of Beatrice's boys too. They're hard to find for some reason. Thanks for the notice. :) Also, Beatrice of Edinburgh was actually called "Bee", like the insect instead of "Bea".  I've seen Princess Beatrice of England's final name spelled both ways, so I'm not sure which is correct.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RomanovFan on October 23, 2007, 11:35:00 PM
Queen Victoria:

Names: Alexandrina Victoria
Title(s), Style: HRH Princess Victoria of Kent
DOB: May 24, 1819
DOD: January 22, 1901
Mother: Victoire, Princess of Saxe-Coburg & Saafield
Father: Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent
Grandfather: King George III ("The Mad")
Husband: Albert, Prince of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, 1819-1861
9 Children

Victoria, nicknamed Drina by her mother, was born fourth in line to the throne. She was the only daughter of Victoire, Princess of Saxe-Coburg & Saafield by her second husband, Edward, Duke of Kent. Victoria's father died when she was 8 months old, shortly after the death of her grandfather, King George III. After the death of George IV, who's only child Charlotte died, Victoria's uncle William became King; he and his wife Queen Adelaide were childless, although William had ten illegitimate children. William welcomed Victoria as his successor and died in June 1837. Just one month after her eighteenth birthday, Victoria ascended to the throne as Queen of England. Victoria proposed marriage to Albert in October 1839; being Queen of England at the time, and Albert a "mere" prince, he could not propose to her.


Prince Albert:


Names: Francis Augstus Charles Albert Emmanuel
Title(s), Styles: HRH Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha
DOB: August 26, 1819 (Delivered by the same midwife that delivered Queen Victoria)
DOD: December 14, 1861
Mother: Louise of Saxe-Gotha Altenberg
Father: Ernest, Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha (brother of Victoire of Saxe-Coburg & Saafield & King Leopold I of Belgium)
Wife: Queen Victoria
9 Children

Albert's father was abusive towards his mother, whom he married when she was sixteen. Louise gave birth to Ernest when she was sixteen, and Albert one year later. She left her children with their abusive father when Albert was just five. Albert was very gifted in the arts and possessed a great intellect; something he passed on to his eldest daughter, Vicky. He was partially responsible for concaucting the marriage between his daughter, Vicky, and Prussia's Prince Friedrich ("Fritz") in order to unite his adopted country with his homeland; this was also to unite the two countries in a friendly alliance.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Tdora1 on December 29, 2007, 08:36:47 AM
At this time of year my thoughts turn to poor QV's sudden widowhood: her frantic despair, her daughter Alice's stalwart and self-denying attempts to nurse and aid her, and the inevitable trauma from now on visited upon the Baby Beatrice, turning her slowly from a precocious and amusingly confident child into a woman almost paralysed by enforced shyness. Other reminders also include the national availability about now of a slew of humanity clutching their tummies and groaning. The doubts about Albert's medical attendants are well chronicled "wouldn't send him to a sick cat" as well as the delay in choosing to treat his illness as typhoid. Typhoid has an insidious onset but was tragically common enough to be eventually diagnosable enough. I heard a while ago there were theories proposing both gastric cancer and Crohns Disease (aka regional ilieitis - enteritis? - and suffered by a fairly recent POTUSA: lemme think: Roosevelt, Wilson, Hoover, FDR, Truman?  Eisenhower? I think it may have been Truman... Sieve Brain Woman Here needs and pleads for your help and I'm on a remote Scots dial-up until New year, so research is currently out of the question). of course if this has been examined to shreds past I apologise but I'd really like to hear what the thoughts are. Such a critical event, so farcically managed - and a curious shortage of the more fertile conspiracy theory attractions. Well - can we at least try anything to get away from the Dodi and the Yorks, ay?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Tdora1 on December 29, 2007, 04:25:02 PM
Thanks for bringing this in where it belonged. Ok. I posit that Albert was already dying when he made his infamous trip to Cambridge to scold (putting it lightly) Bertie about Nellie Clifden and the necessary purity of the Heir. Catching a "chill" in the rain doesn't - even with modern diagnostical hindsight - mean anything beyond a post-event panacea for the media. Poor Albert was in terrible straits for at least a year before he died and the posthumous stories of overwork and rapid aging aren't quite the ticket.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: eejm on December 29, 2007, 06:17:21 PM
Thanks for bringing this in where it belonged. Ok. I posit that Albert was already dying when he made his infamous trip to Cambridge to scold (putting it lightly) Bertie about Nellie Clifden and the necessary purity of the Heir. Catching a "chill" in the rain doesn't - even with modern diagnostical hindsight - mean anything beyond a post-event panacea for the media. Poor Albert was in terrible straits for at least a year before he died and the posthumous stories of overwork and rapid aging aren't quite the ticket.

From the sounds of it, Albert's health had never been very good, and being a workaholic for so long, his immune system was such that he would catch and be greatly affected by any disease.  As for what he actually died from, either typhoid or stomach cancer could both be culprits.  Typhoid was a common killer, and came close to killing three of his sons (Bertie, Alfred, and Leopold) in the following years.  Cancer would explain Albert's continued poor health.  Or, he could have been suffering from some sort of primary infection and been killed by contracting influenza or some other respiratory illness on top of it.  There was never an autopsy done on Albert, was there?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on December 29, 2007, 06:36:20 PM
Quote
stories of overwork and rapid aging aren't quite the ticket.

I believe I read somewhere (on the forum or in a book, can't remember which) that Albert was extra overworked (more than his normal-self) because he was in charge of the Duchess of Kent's will after she passed. 

-Duke of NJ

[It feels nice to be posting again!!)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: TampaBay on December 29, 2007, 09:06:11 PM
Thanks for bringing this in where it belonged. Ok. I posit that Albert was already dying when he made his infamous trip to Cambridge to scold (putting it lightly) Bertie about Nellie Clifden and the necessary purity of the Heir. Catching a "chill" in the rain doesn't - even with modern diagnostical hindsight - mean anything beyond a post-event panacea for the media. Poor Albert was in terrible straits for at least a year before he died and the posthumous stories of overwork and rapid aging aren't quite the ticket.

From the sounds of it, Albert's health had never been very good, and being a workaholic for so long, his immune system was such that he would catch and be greatly affected by any disease.  As for what he actually died from, either typhoid or stomach cancer could both be culprits.  Typhoid was a common killer, and came close to killing three of his sons (Bertie, Alfred, and Leopold) in the following years.  Cancer would explain Albert's continued poor health.  Or, he could have been suffering from some sort of primary infection and been killed by contracting influenza or some other respiratory illness on top of it.  There was never an autopsy done on Albert, was there?

Maybe he sufferred from both aliments,

TampaBay
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on December 30, 2007, 01:11:32 AM
'Overwork' alone could not have given him all the symptoms he complained of, especially the chronic low grade fevers he seemed to suffer from.  Nor would shock from the Bertie/Clifden liasion either.  I don't even think QV thought that once her initial grief had settled.  I don't recall of reading about any significant weight loss or ascites (excess fluid) which can occur with end stage stomach cancer, does anyone else? 

Then again, if he had untreated typhoid, he could have suffered from that for 3-4 weeks beforehand but I think he would have been more acutely ill with it at the end whereas he just seemed to sort of fade out, didn't he?   
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: eejm on December 30, 2007, 08:46:39 AM
'Overwork' alone could not have given him all the symptoms he complained of, especially the chronic low grade fevers he seemed to suffer from. 

That's why I wondered about the possibility of Albert having a chronic infection (perhaps a sinus infection, or one in his bowels) that was weakening him, then catching a secondary infection (such as influenza) on top of that.  This combination would probably make an otherwise healthy person very sick, but to an overworked Albert, it was a deadly combination.  In another era, antibiotics may have helped him greatly, if either of the infections were bacterial.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Kimberly on December 30, 2007, 03:12:55 PM
Good point Eejm. It could have been something as simple as a chronic tooth abcess.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 02, 2008, 09:09:30 AM
The doctors couldn't have helped.  I note that Sir James Clark had an interesting history in diagnosis - he thought Keats was mistaken about his tuberculosis (until he died, when Clark somehow appeared to have predicted it all along) and thought Lady Flora Hastings was pregnant (she had a tumour on the liver from which she died).  Given his past history it's not altogether surprising that he and his colleagues managed to kill their most distinguised patient.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on January 03, 2008, 01:41:22 AM
The Lady Flora Hastings misdiagnosis was a medical AND a moral one unfortunately, but it must be looked at in the context of the times as must the death of the Prince Consort also.

Tools for the diagnosis of malignancies were very limited then and most often even the most skilled doctors could only make a cancer diagnosis (and not always then either) at a surgical procedure.  Even now, many cancers are difficult to detect and diagnose with the most sophisticated techniques and equipment as so many poor patients and their families know only too well. 
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on February 09, 2008, 06:32:41 PM
Victoria & Albert married 168 years ago tomorrow (Feb 10):

(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/605764.jpg)(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/09/13/nyregion/13wedding.190.jpg)

(http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1537373.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939057D9939C83F1068042D8ED111F24155A5397277B4DC33E)

Queen Victoria’s dress was of rich white satin, trimmed with orange flower blossoms. The headdress was a wreath of orange flower blossoms, and over this a beautiful veil of Honiton lace, worn down. The bridesmaids or train-bearers were also attired in white. The cost of the lace alone on the dress was £1,000. The satin, which was of a pure white, was manufactured in Spitalfields. Queen Victoria wore an armlet having the motto of the Order of the Garter: "Honi soit qui mal y pense,” inscribed. She also wore the star of the Order.

 The lace of Queen Victoria’s bridal dress, though popularly called Honiton lace, was really worked at the village of Beer, which is situated near the sea coast, about ten miles from Honiton.  It was executed under the direction of Miss Bidney, a native of the village, who went from London, at the command of her Majesty, for the express purpose of superintending the work. More than two hundred persons were employed upon it from March to November, during the past year.

 The lace which formed the flounce of the dress, measured four yards, and was three quarters of a yard in depth. The pattern was a rich and exquisitely tasteful design, drawn expressly for the purpose, and surpasses anything that has ever been executed either in England or in Brussels. So anxious was the manufacturer that Queen Victoria should have a dress perfectly unique, that she has since the completion of the lace destroyed all the designs. The veil, which was of the same material, and was made to correspond, afforded employment to the poor lace workers for more than six weeks. It was a yard and a half square.

Prince Albert met Queen Victoria and conducted her to her seat on the right hand side of the altar. The Archbishop of Canterbury advanced to the rails; next her Majesty and Prince Albert approached him and the service commenced.  While the service was proceeding, her Majesty was observed looking frequently at Prince Albert, who was standing at her side. In fact she scarcely ever took her eyes off him till she left the chapel.

 The appearance of the large body of spectators was brilliant in the extreme. Bridal favors were universally worn, and the profusion of diamonds and other gems, the glittering state robes and costly decorations, formed a display of the most magnificent character. The altar was magnificently decorated. The pillars supporting the galleries were gilt, as was the communion table and the gothic railing which surrounded it.



Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 10, 2008, 02:52:22 AM
Yesterday I spent a lovely time visiting St Pauls Cathderal. It certainly is a beautiful and imposing building. Apparently Queen Victoria disliked it and thought it "Dark, dirty and undevotional" !! Sounds exactly like the sort of comment she would make I thought! It was so interesting to see where her carriage stopped in 1897 for her diamond jubilee and it's even commemorated on the pavement, the exact spot, with the date!
Title: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: halen on July 30, 2008, 03:37:33 PM
going once, going twice, going, going, gone. Sold to the woman from Canada...and no, not me. I swear nothing is sacred anymore. Not even the Queen's underoos...:-)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/30/queen-victorias-underpant_n_115908.html

Louise

Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: royaltybuff on July 30, 2008, 03:43:39 PM
I can't believe the girl is wearing the Queen's underwear!  ;D. Too funny! Are you sure you didn't bid on them? lol
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: halen on July 30, 2008, 03:49:35 PM
I didn't want to admit I was beaten out on the bloomers and the chemise. My auction skills are atrocious. However, I did fancy the lovely nightgown. Again...outbid...:-)

I did happen to see Emeraldeyes and Laura Mabee trying to out bid each other of the chemise     :-X


Louise
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 30, 2008, 03:58:50 PM
These things come up at auction now & then, the same provenance;; from  past servants of the old girl. Bide your time, you will get another chance to  bid war over the queen's  underthings.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: halen on July 30, 2008, 04:10:25 PM
Oh, yipee...Heck I'm going for the big prize...I've always wondered how her tent awing thing would look in my backyard...complete with servants (to go with my once a month maid service) and tea sets.

I can just hear the old gal..."We are not amused"

I wonder if Queen Elizabeth knows her great-great grandmama's "unmentionables" are being sold to the highest bidder. It is just to goofy to fathom.

Louise

Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Grace on July 30, 2008, 10:30:02 PM
Oh, yipee...Heck I'm going for the big prize...I've always wondered how her tent awing thing would look in my backyard...complete with servants (to go with my once a month maid service) and tea sets.

I can just hear the old gal..."We are not amused"

I wonder if Queen Elizabeth knows her great-great grandmama's "unmentionables" are being sold to the highest bidder. It is just to goofy to fathom.

Louise


Actually, I'm not particularly amused myself by the woman parading around in them - was that really necessary, I wonder? 

I have no objection to them being available for sale but I think there are some people who have forgotten about the dignity of the lady who was Queen Victoria...and that that style of underwear was worn by all women of the time, not just her. 

And, yes, I DO have a sense of humour...

Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 30, 2008, 11:15:46 PM
I have to agree with Grace. They are more appropriate in  museums that have clothing /costume sections. But, this is it now- highest bidder.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on July 31, 2008, 12:08:48 AM
geeze...does she have to parade around in them like its funny?
i agree with the fact they should be in a musuem and not people houses..
honestly...waht is that lady going to do with them...besides ....wear them for amusement?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Norbert on July 31, 2008, 05:40:07 AM
So,  ..... "we are not amused" eh?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Martyn on July 31, 2008, 08:50:06 AM
I'm amused - vastly - and mainly by the scale of these garments!!! 66" bust and 50" waist - dear god, she wasn't even 5ft tall!

I'm also vastly amused by the fact that the drawers have separate legs and thus are open at the crutch, a common characteristic of such garments. 

Somehow though I can't see Ann Summers running a line of them........
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: emeraldeyes on July 31, 2008, 10:55:35 AM
I didn't want to admit I was beaten out on the bloomers and the chemise. My auction skills are atrocious. However, I did fancy the lovely nightgown. Again...outbid...:-)

I did happen to see Emeraldeyes and Laura Mabee trying to out bid each other of the chemise     :-X


Louise

Alas, I was unsuccessful...

So,  ..... "we are not amused" eh?

lol...

the drawers... are open at the crutch...

Albert would have liked that...


Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 31, 2008, 11:42:03 AM
Albert was long gone by the time she got THAT size. But, not to get too graphic, that was the norm- open crotch in those days. Think about it, all those petticoats, skirts, what a hassle to do some basic human functions.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Lucien on March 16, 2009, 03:47:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzqAAg-PA2w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN_t_PKyh2I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AAbKj1X4Zg&feature=related

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 16, 2009, 03:54:58 PM
its is just me or Albert almost always looks like pissed off or like he doesnt care in the pictures?

(http://i43.tinypic.com/nlexe9.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Lucien on March 30, 2009, 04:43:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q-KW96rcS8&feature=related
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Alexander1917 on September 09, 2009, 07:20:04 AM
The palace bought some underwear from a private person. the items are 600 pounds worth....
Title: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Lucien on September 13, 2009, 02:16:43 AM
........oh..
http://gpdhome.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c648253ef0120a5b7d31e970c-pi

courtesy hja
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 15, 2009, 06:54:12 PM
Oh my God!! I wouldn't like to wear that kind of underwear. Happily today is old fashioned.
I can't imagine how did victorian ladies could sit down or do other activities wearing bloomers,
bustles, crinolines and more things!!!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: RoyalWatcher on September 15, 2009, 07:25:32 PM
Well, thank goodness British climate permitted wearing so many layers. I wonder how the Spanish and the Greeks were able to keep up with those fashions? It must have been difficult in their warmer respective climates. I cannot even imagine. Good lord!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 15, 2009, 07:31:54 PM
Well, thank goodness British climate permitted wearing so many layers. I wonder how the Spanish and the Greeks were able to keep up with those fashions? It must have been difficult in their warmer respective climates. I cannot even imagine. Good lord!

That's true, the majority of those clothes weren't good for hot climates, but i think that in spring or summer they
were a little bit uncomfortable
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: rosieposie on September 16, 2009, 04:29:40 AM
When I read they were open crotch, a few adult things went through my head.   No wonder she had so many children, what with her and Bertie sneaking off to a dark corner and spending a good quickie any time of the day.

(sorry just had to say it).
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Grace on September 16, 2009, 06:23:28 AM
I very much doubt that would have happened.  There would have been servants everywhere to begin with.  Also, the Prince Consort was never called 'Bertie'.  Their son, the Prince of Wales, went by that name.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: senorita on September 16, 2009, 07:32:45 AM
its really nice to read this news.. and pleasure to buy this kind of things too.. its precious...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: aor on September 17, 2009, 09:06:36 AM
I very much doubt that would have happened.  There would have been servants everywhere to begin with.  Also, the Prince Consort was never called 'Bertie'.  Their son, the Prince of Wales, went by that name.

.......however, it seems as if both did enjoy 'fun in the bedroom'...... ;) and yes, Prince Albert was never called Bertie!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's bloomers...
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 18, 2009, 06:01:48 PM
.......however, it seems as if both did enjoy 'fun in the bedroom'...... ;) and yes, Prince Albert was never called Bertie!
Of course that they enjoyed their time, their several children shows this.
Title: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: carl fraley on September 20, 2009, 03:44:54 AM
When HM Queen Victoria Was born in 1819 she would have been Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent, Princess of Great Britain and Ireland, but at the same token wouldn't she have also been styled and titled Princess of Hanover, Duchess of Brunswick and Lüneburg as a male line grandchild of King George III as well??? Just a thought????

If that's true wouldn't that have applied to HRH PRincess Mary Adelaide Duchess of Teck and HRH The Duke of Cambridge? Or Did that Not Apply after the Seperation of the Crowns?

I don't see how it would have b/c the Princes/Princess of Hannover continued to use the Title of PRince/Princess of United Kingdom of Great Britian and Ireland after the seperation??

Just a Thought?Anyone know?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: darius on September 20, 2009, 09:30:07 AM
Through marriage she would also have been a Duchess of Saxony.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: carl fraley on September 20, 2009, 08:35:59 PM
yeah i knew that but forgot to include that :) Thanks, more interested in the Hannover Connection
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: CHRISinUSA on September 21, 2009, 08:16:10 AM
You are both correct.  The separation of the Crowns upon Victoria's succession to the British throne had no effect on her Hanovarian titles, as those titles were held by virtue of hereditary.  As a male-line granddaughter of a King of Hanover, Victoria bore the titles of Princess of Hanover and Duchess of Brunswick and Lunenburg. She also held the titles of Princess of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and Duchess in Saxony etc. as the wife of Prince Albert.

Victoria's Hanovarian titles ended with her death (they did not descend to her children) because Hanover operated under Salic law and titles did not descend through female lines.  However, the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and Saxony titles did continue as they were passed through Albert.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: mcdnab on September 21, 2009, 09:04:40 AM
And in addition to Victoria - Princess Augusta of Cambridge, Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambridge and George 2nd Duke of Cambridge were also entitled to those styles. The titles did not descend to George of Cambridge's children as his marriage was in controvention of the Royal Marriages Act and would also have been morganatic under Hanoverian traditions.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: Marc on September 23, 2009, 08:34:48 AM
When HM Queen Victoria Was born in 1819 she would have been Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent, Princess of Great Britain and Ireland, but at the same token wouldn't she have also been styled and titled Princess of Hanover, Duchess of Brunswick and Lüneburg as a male line grandchild of King George III as well??? Just a thought????

If that's true wouldn't that have applied to HRH PRincess Mary Adelaide Duchess of Teck and HRH The Duke of Cambridge? Or Did that Not Apply after the Seperation of the Crowns?

I don't see how it would have b/c the Princes/Princess of Hannover continued to use the Title of PRince/Princess of United Kingdom of Great Britian and Ireland after the seperation??

Just a Thought?Anyone know?

She was born Alexandrina Victoria...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 23, 2009, 03:51:48 PM
What complicated this topics about the correct titles of several royals!!
I only knew that she was Queen of England and Empress of India ;-)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: mcdnab on September 24, 2009, 10:25:33 AM
Don't mean to nit pic but i will - She was NOT Queen of England - there is no such title and hasn't been for about three hundred years (unless you are a jacobite supporter of the Stuart succession).
Victoria was Queen of The United Kingdom of Great Britain, Empress of India etc....
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 24, 2009, 08:10:14 PM
Well, excuse me for my mistake, I was refferring to the UK of GB
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: carl fraley on September 25, 2009, 02:27:06 AM
When HM Queen Victoria Was born in 1819 she would have been Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra Victoria of Kent, Princess of Great Britain and Ireland, but at the same token wouldn't she have also been styled and titled Princess of Hanover, Duchess of Brunswick and Lüneburg as a male line grandchild of King George III as well??? Just a thought????

If that's true wouldn't that have applied to HRH PRincess Mary Adelaide Duchess of Teck and HRH The Duke of Cambridge? Or Did that Not Apply after the Seperation of the Crowns?

I don't see how it would have b/c the Princes/Princess of Hannover continued to use the Title of PRince/Princess of United Kingdom of Great Britian and Ireland after the seperation??

Just a Thought?Anyone know?

She was born Alexandrina Victoria...




Yeah, A typo on my Part..> Thanks :)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: dandylion on October 22, 2009, 06:58:02 PM
Hi my name is Margaret . I live in new zealand and I am  decendant from madam de saint laurent/ Duke of kent . They had 2 sons i believe and that is where we decended from. I do have some paper work from a family tree that was done some years back.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: jehan on October 22, 2009, 07:45:35 PM
Hi my name is Margaret . I live in new zealand and I am  decendant from madam de saint laurent/ Duke of kent . They had 2 sons i believe and that is where we decended from. I do have some paper work from a family tree that was done some years back.

There are lots of people who claim to be descended from  supposed children of this union.  However, there The Duke of Kent had no children by Mme de St Laurent.  If there were any, they would have been recorded somewhere, as such children were usually acknowledged, as his brothers did with their numerous illegitimate offspring.  There were some who argue that the records were destroyed, but there would still be some mention in correspondence somewhere.  There would have been no reason to keep such children a secret.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Rani on November 21, 2009, 03:53:24 PM
Young Victoria by Carl v. Vogelstein, 1834

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/younggirl.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 21, 2009, 04:18:37 PM
She was very young in this portrait, she looks strange and different than in the majority of
her portraits, she looks sooo beautiful. isn't it a little bit... idealized??
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 22, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
Whoa! it doesnt look a bit like her
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 23, 2009, 02:45:45 PM
Perhaps because is strange for me to see her as young as in this portrait, but she changed
a lot with the time
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 23, 2009, 09:11:24 PM
i have seen portrait of her younger days but i could recognice her. If you dont tell me is it her, i could never think it was Victoria cause the lady of that portrait has no her face (AKA nose, cheeks, eyes)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 24, 2009, 03:17:22 PM
Perhaps looking her more carefully, or perhaps because she looks not as plump as in other of her
portraits, even of her as a young lady
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 24, 2009, 04:22:27 PM
i think the artist just wanted to make her a "bit Different". Artistic licenses and stuff...
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: wildone on November 24, 2009, 09:49:27 PM
i think the artist just wanted to make her a "bit Different". Artistic licenses and stuff...

I notice that there are some where she seems a bit idealized (hardly unusual).  There's one -- done by Winterhalter, I think -- where she is seated, wearing her regalia, and staring straight forward.  She looks like Alice, or even Vicky.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 24, 2009, 10:05:57 PM
Well, at least in that one she keeps some of the "hannover" facial features , thing it doesnt happen in the portrait we were talking about, cause if you look at it you cant see those facial features at all. Totally idealized
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 25, 2009, 03:14:31 PM
Well, at least in that one she keeps some of the "hannover" facial features , thing it doesnt happen in the portrait we were talking about, cause if you look at it you cant see those facial features at all. Totally idealized
Indeed true ;-) Many paintings (even of other royals) don't look completely like they were really,
it was a little bit common on those days
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: jehan on November 25, 2009, 05:34:11 PM
Well, at least in that one she keeps some of the "hannover" facial features , thing it doesnt happen in the portrait we were talking about, cause if you look at it you cant see those facial features at all. Totally idealized
Indeed true ;-) Many paintings (even of other royals) don't look completely like they were really,
it was a little bit common on those days


Just like a lot of photos are "touched up" nowadays!!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: miki_nastya on December 14, 2009, 10:42:26 AM
 Today 14 december, are 148 years since poor Albert died at the young age of 42. R.I.P . But also 131 years since his daugher Alice died.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: B5218 on December 14, 2009, 04:18:16 PM
It is also King George VI's birthday
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: katmaxoz on December 14, 2009, 05:38:55 PM
Quote
'Embonpoint' is a term I've come across a few times - does anyone know what it means?  :-?
"Embonpoint" means "stoutness" in French.

it was also used to mean pregnancy. A polite way of saying it.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 21, 2010, 09:17:46 PM
May some would like to know that


Victoria R.I.
passed away 99 years ago......
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 21, 2010, 10:18:47 PM
Hi,

Actually, Queen Victoria died in 1901, which is 109 years ago!!

And her grandson, George V passed away January 20th (yesterday) 1936 - 74 years ago...

Larry
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 22, 2010, 06:04:54 AM
of course.. my fault...

her great-grandson George VI 6th Feb. I think the first half of the years is not so good for British sovereigns.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Rani on February 20, 2010, 11:12:11 AM
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2gtcks7.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 04, 2010, 05:08:58 AM
This sounds wonderful and will be very interesting, I can't wait!

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=758
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on April 07, 2010, 05:53:14 PM
Through marriage she would also have been a Duchess of Saxony.
As spouse of an agnate of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha she would in theory be entitled to this titulary - some of the titles substantive, most of them just in pretence:
Princess of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duchess of Saxony, Juliers, Cleves and Berg, also of Angria and Westphalia, Landgravine in Thuringia, Margravine of Meissen, Princely Countess of Henneberg, Countess of the Mark and Ravensberg, Lady of Ravenstein and Tonna, et cetera.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: Emperor of the Dominions on April 07, 2010, 07:09:59 PM
At the end of her reign, her full title was:

Her Majesty Victoria, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Queen, Defender of the Faith, Empress of India.

R.I.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria's Full Title At Death
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on April 07, 2010, 07:29:30 PM
R.I.
And the full Latin style was:
Sua Maiestas Victoria, Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regina, Fidei Defensor, Indiæ Imperatrix.

In the Latin style "Britanniarum", the plural genitive of Britain, or "of the Britains", was (and is) used instead of the UK of GB & I!

Edward VII adopted the designation "Britanniarum omnium rex", King of All/Every/Both the Britains, which strangely still seems to be the usual Latin style, although the state's Latin name is just Britanniarum Regnum, with the literal translation "Coniunctum Britanniae Magnae et Hiberniae Septentrionalis Regnum" a secondary option.

In contrast the Emperors of all the Russias was in Latin, as in the original Russian, usually styled "totius Russiæ Imperator", Emperor of All Russia, in the singular.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carisbrooke on April 19, 2010, 01:48:27 AM
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1651/johnbrownandqueenvictorv.jpg)

PAST & PRESENT
John Brown & Queen Victoria at Osborne, by Landseer. This picture matched up more by accident than design, and I got an obliging passing thunder cloud too.

    I also got very wet.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 20, 2010, 10:53:12 AM
(http://i39.tinypic.com/1zmhugh.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: katmaxoz on September 04, 2010, 10:08:49 AM
a couple of more images of the Queen for the collection

1894 Queen Victoria painted by Tuxen

(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/33577/2763982610102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2763982610102753164IYQeJD)

Diamond Jubilee Photo of Queen Victoria & Edward VII (she looks rather depressed here I think..)

(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/45353/2663354800102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2663354800102753164neqvqk)

1897 Queen Victoria

(http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/44935/2780803120102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2780803120102753164VSmEnL)

Queen Victoria

(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/44557/2193883590102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2193883590102753164REcWXm)

1900 Queen Victoria

(http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/43190/2788586830102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2788586830102753164vGhOmZ)



Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 04, 2010, 10:23:17 AM
Recieving bad news...

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1657/140810052.jpg) (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/140810052.jpg/)

its inusual to see the Queen like this!

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: miki_nastya on September 04, 2010, 02:55:00 PM
did anyone know what news? any idea?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Grace on September 04, 2010, 05:29:25 PM
The third photo posted by Katmaxoz...just extraordinarily candid!  I've never seen QV like this...I just love it...you can almost imagine being in the very room with her. 

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: katmaxoz on September 04, 2010, 06:53:33 PM
The third photo posted by Katmaxoz...just extraordinarily candid!  I've never seen QV like this...I just love it...you can almost imagine being in the very room with her. 



I agree, I think it is a very interesting image of Victoria. However, I also like the painting by Tuxen because I'm pretty sure it's a sketch from life and gives a good impression of the colours her formal portraits should show. Katenka_Fyodorovna  image is also unusual. From what I understand QV was quite inclined to tears and wasn't above using them to get what she wanted, but you don't normally see her depicted crying.

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on September 04, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
If you zoom in on that image of her crying, there's something written under her skirt.  I think it says "The Queen and the Sightless Captain"?  Anyone know who that might refer to, and what time period?  Was there a war on, or something else of significance?

Also, is that Princess Beatrice standing on the far right?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: katmaxoz on September 04, 2010, 09:39:51 PM
If you zoom in on that image of her crying, there's something written under her skirt.  I think it says "The Queen and the Sightless Captain"?  Anyone know who that might refer to, and what time period?  Was there a war on, or something else of significance?

Also, is that Princess Beatrice standing on the far right?

Yes, I think that is Beatrice. It looks like it is a Boer war cabinet card.

http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/education/yourVisit/files/boerImpact.pdf

gives the following information on this image:

“The Queen and the Sightless Captain - A Touching Episode/ South African
Victoria Cross Heroes, 1901
” Chromolithograph, artist unknown

Capt Ernest Towse being presented to Queen Victoria. Her interest in the war and soldiers’
welfare reinforced support of the war as an act of patriotism. Captain Ernest Towse of the
Gordon Highlanders was featured in the London Gazette on 6th July, 1900. The first act of
bravery Towse was noted for concerned trying to carry mortally wounded Colonel Dowman
away from fighting at Magersfontein on 11th December 1899. The second act resulted in
Towse losing his sight while involved in a skirmish on mount Thaba, 30th April 1900.


Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 26, 2010, 03:18:23 PM
I was looking for some info about Patsy Cornwallis west (Mother of Daisy von pless and Mistress of Edward VII) and stumbled with this info that her was daughter of a mistress of Prince Albert.


for what i know he didnt have any mistress. or he did (Prior or during his marriage with Victoria )? Im confused

Source

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3598927/A-sexually-lawless-royal-mistress-and-her-shell-shocked-sergeant.html
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on September 26, 2010, 08:17:15 PM
I was looking for some info about Patsy Cornwallis west (Mother of Daisy von pless and Mistress of Edward VII) and stumbled with this info that her was daughter of a mistress of Prince Albert.


for what i know he didnt have any mistress. or he did (Prior or during his marriage with Victoria )? Im confused

Source

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3598927/A-sexually-lawless-royal-mistress-and-her-shell-shocked-sergeant.html

I'm confused also.  Where would anyone have gotten that kind of information?  I know I haven't read everything out there, but I've certainly not read anything like this.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on September 27, 2010, 03:32:18 PM
Tim Coates in the book referred to seems to have gone into a sort of fantasy about 'Patsy's' mother on the basis of an anecdote in the book 'Daisy Princess of Pless by herself'.  Daisy wrote of a visit in 1909 paid by Edward VII to her grandmother, Lady Olivia Fitzpatrick (a woman he had never previously met),  where "in a few minutes they were both flirting desperately.  Granny could never resist flirting and neither could the King." (To put this in perspective, 'Granny' was 85 at the time).  "The King said: 'Is it true that my Mother sent you away from Court for trying to flirt with my father?' 'I can't quite remember Sir; most likely I wanted to flirt with your father: he was a very good-looking man - besides, all the Coburgs inherited a roving eye.  How humiliating it would be for a man to think that no woman ever wanted to flirt with him.' 'I doubt, Lady Olivia, if that is a form of humiliation on which either you or I could pose as an authority.' "

There is no form of evidence presented by Mr Coates of any kind whatsoever to support the notion that the entirely respectable (despite the flirting) Lady Olivia Taylour, daughter of the 2nd Marquess of Headfort and wife of a clergyman was ever the mistress of Prince Albert with whom the anecdote in any case only ever accused her of flirting, certainly not of being Prince Albert's mistress.  Nor indeed did Lady Olivia actually confirm the suggestion made by Edward VII - and he himself did not say for a second that his father flirted with her.  However, Mr Coates seems to have taken a rather sweet story of King Edward VII charming an elderly lady (albeit in a rather laborious way to our eyes today) and come to an extraordinary conclusion.   It is rather horrifying how this suggestion has whipped around the internet so that it has on a number of occasions been presented as fact. 

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: LadyAstraea on September 30, 2010, 01:06:48 PM
The idea that Albert ever had ANY mistress is most assuredly utter fiction. I also highly doubt that he even ever would have seriously "flirted" with any woman. It would have been just completely uncharacteristic of him. He was the polar-opposite of his brother and father, and was disgusted by even the thought of an affair on the part of anyone. This "immorality" on the part of the former Hanoverian court was also what he desperately tried to change when he married Victoria. He wanted to create a moral court above love affairs. That was why at his wedding he demanded that no one of "questionable" character be invited -- a demand Victoria could of course not meet. This obsession with morality even spilled over into politics as well, not just at court, for this was why Albert disliked Viscount Palmerston (later PM) so much -- for again Albert had heard stories of his affairs, in particular one episode where Palmerston supposedly "raped" a woman. This extreme aversion to "immorality" as Albert saw it was precisely why, shortly before his death in 1861, he was so heartbroken and reacted so strongly when he discovered that his son, Bertie, had had an affair with an actress named Nellie Clifden. Indeed, Albert being comfortable in the company of women other than close family members was worthy of comment. Victoria herself was taken aback when in the 1850s Emperor Napoleon III and Empress Eugenie of France visited England, and Albert seemed to really like Eugenie.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on October 02, 2010, 03:57:44 PM
The idea that Albert ever had ANY mistress is most assuredly utter fiction. I also highly doubt that he even ever would have seriously "flirted" with any woman. It would have been just completely uncharacteristic of him. He was the polar-opposite of his brother and father, and was disgusted by even the thought of an affair on the part of anyone. This "immorality" on the part of the former Hanoverian court was also what he desperately tried to change when he married Victoria. He wanted to create a moral court above love affairs. That was why at his wedding he demanded that no one of "questionable" character be invited -- a demand Victoria could of course not meet. This obsession with morality even spilled over into politics as well, not just at court, for this was why Albert disliked Viscount Palmerston (later PM) so much -- for again Albert had heard stories of his affairs, in particular one episode where Palmerston supposedly "raped" a woman. This extreme aversion to "immorality" as Albert saw it was precisely why, shortly before his death in 1861, he was so heartbroken and reacted so strongly when he discovered that his son, Bertie, had had an affair with an actress named Nellie Clifden. Indeed, Albert being comfortable in the company of women other than close family members was worthy of comment. Victoria herself was taken aback when in the 1850s Emperor Napoleon III and Empress Eugenie of France visited England, and Albert seemed to really like Eugenie.

While I fully agree that the idea of Albert having any mistress or indeed flirted with a woman was completely fictitious, I would just observe that Albert's moral values were not quite as absolute as all that.  His dislike of Palmerston, for example, was based more on Palmerston's lack of reference to the Queen and Prince in politics rather than the Lady Dacre incident (while staying at Windsor, Palmerston entered Lady Dacre's bedroom, locked the door, turned and realising his mistake, muttered an apology and left.  Since Lady Cowper (his longtime mistress whom he subsequently married) was also staying at Windsor at the time, the obvious inference is that Palmerston had mistaken Lady Dacre's room for Lady Cowper's.  Lady Dacre was shocked and horrified but not in the least raped, or even ‘seduced’ which is the other version.  The Queen and Prince used the incident to try to oust Palmerston, unsuccessfully).  In this respect, Albert was not above expressing a rather hypocritical moral outrage for a political end – not least because his brother Ernest’s morals were certainly no better than Palmerston’s, of which Albert was perfectly well aware.  He scolded his brother, and attempted reforms, but had to accept that Ernest was incorrigible, and it caused no breach between them.  His reaction to the Nellie Clifden affair was indeed considered rather over the top and his biographers have speculated whether the horror came from the onset of his illness coupled with recent bereavements which had depressed his spirits and lead to an unbalanced view of the matter which he might not have taken had he been in a more robust state of mind and health.  However, it would be fair to say that Albert would never have regarded sexual misconduct lightly or considered it appropriate to overlook it in his son – just that his more absolute attitudes aged 20 were not necessarily those of 10 or 20 years later.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 02, 2010, 03:59:32 PM
Thanks for all the info!!!

For me it sounded ridiculous too. I wonder where the telegraph got that info and is this a reliable source in general?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on October 03, 2010, 07:34:29 AM
Thanks for all the info!!!

For me it sounded ridiculous too. I wonder where the telegraph got that info and is this a reliable source in general?

As far as I can see, the Telegraph was simply reviewing the book and reproducing the sensational statements made by the author.  Having read the book, I recall no evidence presented for his assertion and indeed, had I not read Daisy Pless's various volumes of diaries and memoires many years ago I would not have recalled the incident which is the only place I can ever recall Prince Albert's name being coupled with that of Patsy Cornwallis-West's mother - and not in any improper way at all.  Hence my supposition that Tim Coates put 2 and 2 together and made .38789, or indeed whatever number you care to mention except 4.  But LadyAstraea's interesting observation about Lord Palmerston/Lady Dacre shows the pervasiveness of myth - as any reputable biography of Palmerston will show, Lady Dacre was neither raped nor seduced, but once the story is out there it gets repeated until it has the weight of fact.  The Telegraph reviewer naturally didn't know or care about the likelihood of the story which in any case was presented as almost incidental to the rather sad and sordid little incident Tim Coates was depicting, but it makes a tasty note in the dish the author was serving up.  'Patsy' was a very short-term mistress of Edward VII's and not in the same class as either Daisy Warwick or Alice Keppel, and in 1914 she was very much a has-been.  But a royal mistress and the daughter of another, is presumably a hook for the reading public which might otherwise take little interest in the goings-on of a no longer youthful socialite who made an indiscreet pass at a young soldier who was too unsophisticated to either take up her offer or say no without giving offense.  As the reviewer indicated, a proper biography of Patsy would have actually been more interesting. 
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: GrandDuchessIsabelle on September 21, 2011, 02:17:25 PM
I have read that five of V+A's nine children were present when he died. I am assuming that Alice and Bertie were two, but who were the others? Sorry to be a pest, but I am writing about Princess Beatrice and need some details.
Thanks, GDI
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on September 21, 2011, 04:44:26 PM
I'm pretty sure the five remaining were Bertie, Alice, Arthur, Helena, and possibly Alfred (although I'm not sure about him).

Beatrice was too young to be at a deathbed.  I think Leopold was considered so too, although he may have been recovering from an attack of hemophilia at the time also.  Vicky couldn't come from Prussia - she may have been expecting at the time.  If Alfred was away, it was probably Louise who was also present.

I'm pretty sure the book "We Two" has loads of information on the topic, as well as Christopher Hibbert's books.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 21, 2011, 04:48:43 PM
Marlene is the expert on QV,  try asking her or cher her books.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on September 22, 2011, 03:15:48 AM
Elizabeth Longford wrote that the children, "except for the baby" came in ("one by one" according to Lady Augusta Bruce) and kissed his hand some hours prior to his death but at the end, the Queen, who had stepped out of the room for a few minutes, was called back by Princess Alice and she knelt at the other side of the bed from the Queen, with the Prince of Wales and Princess Helena at the foot of the bed.  The Queen in her own account mentioned Alice, "Bertie and Lenchen", and Lady Augusta also wrote that these three were present.  Apart from the four of the immediate family, in the room were Ernest and Marie Leiningen, Albert's valet Lohlein, his private secretary Sir Charles Phipps, Dean Wellesley, General Bruce and Lady Augusta Bruce, Miss Hildyard, and "the doctors" - as Drs Watson, Brown, Sir James Clark, Sir William Jenner and Sir Henry Holland were consulted in the case they may all have been in the room as it would have been difficult to omit any of them - so possibly the younger children were omitted as they had already said their farewells and were deemed to young to stay up late for this distressing event (he died at a quarter to eleven at night).  Indeed, Lady Augusta wrote that Princess Helena "could not bear it" and the doctors "did not like her to be near her father" presumably because she showed her distress too greatly, another reason why the presence of the younger children might have not seemed appropriate  in what was an already very crowded room.  
Prince Alfred was at sea and did not return until March, according to Lady Augusta's account.  
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: AnnieB on September 22, 2011, 05:51:33 AM
Leopold had been sent to the South of France to convalesce during the winter, so was not present
Vicky and Alfred were absent for the reasons given above
I think Beatrice had been put to bed earlier.   Albert dies late in the evening of Dec 14th. After Albert died, Q V went to the sleeping child and took her into her own bed for comfort

AnnieB
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Kalafrana on September 22, 2011, 06:46:17 AM
Poor Albert, breathing his last amid all that crowd!

My mother's deathbed gathering comprised my father, myself and the vicar (my brother didn't arrive in time). Enough, I think.

Ann
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Sara Araújo on November 16, 2011, 01:34:37 PM
(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAALR-GgymoJlhjlfZMscGJ9rfodj05YvjJ5squQub6P5XrgM-lMnar8onq9NKGrl4jxJ7_XqzfyByd40qWP6DyIcAm1T1UI6Fi5VAVnyluDilpPPVDIsZi-iR.jpg)

Memorial to the Prince Consort by Edward Corbould

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAOKrDIhEX77VxA78maiDgkWpjwly4tAE7ptw1xCEaCzPaBIA5mxhUCQPI-AJK5lHb8eiTE3c-NlmG7Mym4EayRIAm1T1UAdcfOYIJs1SfF8PKA5vUDfoyY5u.jpg)

Prince Albert by Sir William Ross
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: AnnieB on December 15, 2011, 02:50:16 AM
December 14 2011 is the 150th anniversary of the death of Prince Albert.

R.I.P.

AnnieB
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 13, 2012, 10:36:45 AM
I am very interested in this man that wanted a Liberal Europe.  I need to read a biography on him---till then I thought I could learn more about him here.  He seems to have been an excellent husband and father.  I want to know more!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Kimberly on January 13, 2012, 11:27:17 AM
Helen Rappaport has just written a book..Magnificent Obsession. I haven't read it yet but have heard many glowing reviews about it. That might be a good start.
Cheers Kim.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 13, 2012, 05:01:44 PM
Thanks, I will look for that book!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on January 13, 2012, 09:14:22 PM
There is also one by Stanley Weintraub, "Uncrowned King", published 1997. I've read that. Need to read it again. Very informative.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 14, 2012, 11:14:25 AM
Thanks, for the great biography ideas!  I'm reading 3 books right now and was wondering if there is good info on Albert on this site?  I have searched the Victoria and Albert posts--not much there...all about Victoria.  I am really interested in Albert as a father.  From what I have read, he seemed to be incredibly present with his children for a royal father.  His hope for a Liberal Europe is fascinationg to me. His moral character helped shape his children and their children and so on.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 21, 2012, 11:04:11 AM
This may not be the right place to ask this... Why did Victoria's relationship with Alice deteriorate?  I know that they had a difference of opinion about Victoria's choice of husband for Helena.  What I do not understand is how Alice went from savior to her mother to not wanting her around?  Alice was an amazing woman---was the queen jealous of all that Alice was doing in Darmstadt?
'
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 22, 2012, 07:42:28 AM
This may not be the right place to ask this... Why did Victoria's relationship with Alice deteriorate?  I know that they had a difference of opinion about Victoria's choice of husband for Helena.  What I do not understand is how Alice went from savior to her mother to not wanting her around?  Alice was an amazing woman---was the queen jealous of all that Alice was doing in Darmstadt?


Queen Victoria never demonstrated any jealousy of that kind whatsoever in relation to any of her daughters.  She was, however, very jealous of her 'rights' as a parent, which, in fairness to her point of view, was that of a sovereign as well and any of her children who interfered in her family dispositions did so at the risk of a disruption in a good relationship with her.  QV wrote in great detail to Vicky after the row in 1866 over Lenchen of Alice having "injured herself [with the Queen] by the way in which she spoke to many people about Lenchen and her remaining in England - and made great mischief with Louise, and both her brothers.  Then, after originally at Darmstadt recommending Christian as so amiable and likely to do, she abused him and spoke in a very improper way of one who bears a very high character and has high principles and is one of the kindest and best people I know.  Then she very rarely spoke kindly of poor Lenchen in her letters to me - and when she wrote, wrote bitterly to her.  In short poor Alice was jealous - not because she wished to come because that is very natural and right, but about many things.  I know people can't help that, and Alice is irritable and sharp.  I think she in not strong and those large children so quick one after another have tried her very much.  I only dreaded fresh mischief in the house and, rather than have that – which my health and nerves could not bear, for they require great quiet – I said I could not have Alice.  But if she will be loving and affectionate to all, and not speak to Louise (who unfortunately is most indiscreet and then that makes great mischief very often) about Lenchen I shall be only too happy to have her with me, for my love is ever the same – God knows.  I subscribe to every word you say about life being so short that there ought to be nothing but love and affection.  It was never written to Alice that I wished the one and not the other [Helena] to be with me – and that the two sisters were not to meet......"
As QV’s family grew older, marriages became more and more contentious as various political interests intruded and her adult children had differing views which were less and less easy to accommodate.  In these situations, relations became strained despite Alice’s strong support while Prince Albert was dying.
Whether political considerations were involved in Alice’s change of attitude towards Prince Christian, or whether some other factor was at work (we don’t have Alice’s side of the story), QV clearly became very annoyed at Alice’s attitude and there was a long breach between them.  The detailed letter to Vicky came after the Queen had mixed up the envelopes of two letters, one to Vicky in which she had complained about Alice, and one to Alice which was presumably frosty but not so explicit – something the Queen very seldom did and which perhaps demonstrated how disturbed she was at the situation.  The mix-up had one good effect however in that Alice then apparently apologised to QV’s satisfaction and relations improved – though there were explosions in the future.  However, Alice was by no means the only target and all the children had run-ins with their mother at one time or another – about her seclusion, her dependence on John Brown, alleged mischief making, etc. etc., with only Prince Arthur largely escaping and even he became exasperated with his mother at times, though was too discreet to either show it or rebel in a more obvious way.  It was sad that Alice and QV fell out in this way – but both were strong characters and clashes happen in the best of families.  And it didn't last.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 22, 2012, 10:55:52 AM
From what I understand, Albert's sons didn't inherit their father's desire to take part in their children's lives.  I wonder if this is because he was a "different" father to his children?  Vicky and Alice seemed to get the best of him?  While Bertie,Alfred and Arthur received alot of his criticism?  The younger children didn't get a chance to know him?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alixz on January 22, 2012, 12:23:36 PM
I have read Weintraub.  I get the impression that Albert was obsessed with the education of his children and did not take into account that all children are different and learn at different speeds.

Albert was a proud man and he was stuck in that proverbial spot between a rock and a hard place.  He knew when he married Victoria that she would be the one in charge, but I think, for the first few years, he was disappointed in the place given to him. He had just begun to come into his own when he died.

He was amazed and impressed by Vicky and disappointed by the Prince of Wales. I think he expected all of his children to be as precocious as Vicky was and couldn't understand that no two children are alike in their learning skills and their choice of paths in life.

As to his vision of a Liberal Europe and the joining of all the royal families of Europe into one big clan, he forgot that most families can't get along at the dinner table let alone on the world stage with their advisers giving them conflicting information and advice.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 22, 2012, 01:48:52 PM
Thank you for such a wonderful explanation to my questions!  Thanks for taking the time~
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 22, 2012, 03:39:02 PM
All very interesting!  Thanks for the time you put into that ---I better understand it now!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Kalafrana on January 23, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
Albert expected his sons to appreciate the education and moral upbringing he rammed down their throats. He also expected them to be like him, but only Leopold took after him to any extent. Leopold and Arthur were also lucky in that Albert died when they were eight and 11 respectively, so didn't experience the full force of Albert's 'system'.

I find it interesting that of three heirs apparent who were subjected to spectacularly rigorous educational and moral upbringings, two - Edward VII and the Kaiser, went in the opposite direction - and the other - Crown Prince Rudolf - died a murderer and a suicide.

Ann
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alixz on January 23, 2012, 09:50:33 AM
And so it would seem that none of their father's or those who were in charge of their moral and educational upbringing took into account that each child is different and position in society does not make a child more amenable to a system they don't like or can't follow.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 23, 2012, 02:53:18 PM
I find this all very interesting!  It is so true that every child is an individual with different strengths and weaknesses.  Somehow Albert's teachings seemed to work and have a lasting impact on Vicky and Alice.  Or he may have been easier on them?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Kalafrana on January 24, 2012, 03:53:01 AM
It's quite possible that Albert was easier on Victoria and Alice because they weren't expected to inherit. Albert Edward was heir apparent, so got the full rigour of Albert's teaching. Even though I'm quite intellectual by temperament, one day of Albert's teaching would have me throwing my books out of the window and disappearing into the nearest field!

Ann
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 24, 2012, 05:10:42 AM
Quote
Somehow Albert's teachings seemed to work and have a lasting impact on Vicky and Alice.  Or he may have been easier on them?

Hannah Pakula points out in 'An uncommon woman" that Victoria certainly didn't have an easier ride educationally, with a French tutor at eighteen months and a German tutor at three and a half.  However, she notes that "Vicky was so bright that she spoiled things for her younger siblings, none of whom ever approached her in intellect.  This was particularly painful in the case of Bertie.......[who] learned slowly and had difficulty concentrating...." I think also that Vicky as the eldest child, and Bertie as the eldest son and heir, had a particularly severe weight of expectations from their actually quite young parents, who to a certain extent relaxed their anxieties with the younger children, because of the experience gained with the older ones.  I don't think it was the educational system and moral upbringing in itself which bore down so hard on Bertie in particular as the burden of competing with a much brighter child (with whom, to his credit, he always remained on very good terms) without the same intellectual gifts, and as Kalafrana so rightly remarks, without any appreciation on Albert's part that there were better ways of teaching a slow child.  And in fairness, that advisor to royalty, Stockmar, who devised the educational plans for the children, had no alternatives to conventional methods either.  Standard Victorian education was a horror to our modern eyes, but it wasn't any different really for any members of the family, whether Albert was alive or dead.  It was just that after Bertie, the bar was lower for the younger children and the weight of expectation was less.  And I'm not fully convinced that Bertie would have grown up any more interested in books and abstract intellectual matters (he was perfectly shrewd with regard to practical politics) if Albert had been any easier on him. 
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: feodorovna on January 24, 2012, 10:13:50 AM
I get the impression, that for Albert, education was both hobby and obsession. I feel that by submerging himself in it as a child he trained himself not to feel the pain of having his mother wrested from  him. I find myself wondering if he managed to irradicate every difficulty he may have experienced in this way. Victoria appears to have had an innate grasp on a given situation, something, IMO, Bertie inherited from her. Albert's intellect, by contrast, disciplined and controlled as it was, probably meant he had little concept of understanding.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 25, 2012, 12:16:13 PM
I get the impression, that for Albert, education was both hobby and obsession. I feel that by submerging himself in it as a child he trained himself not to feel the pain of having his mother wrested from  him. I find myself wondering if he managed to irradicate every difficulty he may have experienced in this way. Victoria appears to have had an innate grasp on a given situation, something, IMO, Bertie inherited from her. Albert's intellect, by contrast, disciplined and controlled as it was, probably meant he had little concept of understanding.

I'm not sure that Albert's intellect was quite that removed from practical sympathy.  Admittedly, he showed little intuitive understanding of Bertie, but there might have been other factors going on - such as the fact that Bertie was in a position to be relatively independent of his parents, once he achieved his majority, and if Victoria were to die, or be otherwise incapacitated (Albert was in terror of her emotional storms, which he found very difficult to deal with, and was genuinely concerned that she might have inherited the madness of her grandfather George III), Albert was not her heir - Bertie was.  I think perhaps an underlying resentment may have caused him to be harsher and less understanding than he might otherwise have been - though I certainly agree he found it very hard to understand how someone could not interest themselves in science and literature and art.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Alixz on January 25, 2012, 01:10:19 PM
But the consort - male or female - is not usually the heir, the first male child is.  Albert had to have known that and accepted it when he married Victoria.

Had Victoria become incapacitated or died while Bertie was under age, then Albert might have been regent, but never heir.

Albert was, in my opinion, just a typical Prussian father. I know that Prussia is not where he came from, but the Prussian ideals of manhood and education and precision were felt in all parts of the German states even before the actual formation of Germany with a Prussian leader after the 1848 and 1870 wars of unification.

And it is true that Stockmar was the inventor of the educational system that influenced Albert both as a student and as a father.  It has been said that Stockmar invented Albert.

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 25, 2012, 02:53:06 PM
I get the impression, that for Albert, education was both hobby and obsession. I feel that by submerging himself in it as a child he trained himself not to feel the pain of having his mother wrested from  him. I find myself wondering if he managed to irradicate every difficulty he may have experienced in this way. Victoria appears to have had an innate grasp on a given situation, something, IMO, Bertie inherited from her. Albert's intellect, by contrast, disciplined and controlled as it was, probably meant he had little concept of understanding.

I'm not sure that Albert's intellect was quite that removed from practical sympathy.  Admittedly, he showed little intuitive understanding of Bertie, but there might have been other factors going on - such as the fact that Bertie was in a position to be relatively independent of his parents, once he achieved his majority, and if Victoria were to die, or be otherwise incapacitated (Albert was in terror of her emotional storms, which he found very difficult to deal with, and was genuinely concerned that she might have inherited the madness of her grandfather George III), Albert was not her heir - Bertie was.  I think perhaps an underlying resentment may have caused him to be harsher and less understanding than he might otherwise have been - though I certainly agree he found it very hard to understand how someone could not interest themselves in science and literature and art.



I wonder about the underlying resentment that Albert may have had?  At a time when women had few rights, Victoria was one of the most powerful people on the planet!  She asked him for his hand in marriage---she told him what he could and could not do.  How did Abert deal with being powerless to his wife?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on January 25, 2012, 08:34:24 PM
I get the impression, that for Albert, education was both hobby and obsession. I feel that by submerging himself in it as a child he trained himself not to feel the pain of having his mother wrested from  him. I find myself wondering if he managed to irradicate every difficulty he may have experienced in this way. Victoria appears to have had an innate grasp on a given situation, something, IMO, Bertie inherited from her. Albert's intellect, by contrast, disciplined and controlled as it was, probably meant he had little concept of understanding.

I'm not sure that Albert's intellect was quite that removed from practical sympathy.  Admittedly, he showed little intuitive understanding of Bertie, but there might have been other factors going on - such as the fact that Bertie was in a position to be relatively independent of his parents, once he achieved his majority, and if Victoria were to die, or be otherwise incapacitated (Albert was in terror of her emotional storms, which he found very difficult to deal with, and was genuinely concerned that she might have inherited the madness of her grandfather George III), Albert was not her heir - Bertie was.  I think perhaps an underlying resentment may have caused him to be harsher and less understanding than he might otherwise have been - though I certainly agree he found it very hard to understand how someone could not interest themselves in science and literature and art.



I wonder about the underlying resentment that Albert may have had?  At a time when women had few rights, Victoria was one of the most powerful people on the planet!  She asked him for his hand in marriage---she told him what he could and could not do.  How did Abert deal with being powerless to his wife?

He may have been powerless about state matters - although that changed gradually, and thoroughly - but he never was powerless in their own home. She deferred to him in matters regarding the childrens' education (being discussed), and their marriage matches, among other things.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Kalafrana on January 26, 2012, 03:21:26 AM
I will need to look up the Regency Act of the day to see who would have been regent in the event of Victoria dying before her son's majority. Under the current Regency Act it is the first adult in the line of succession. So, if the Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William were all to die in rapid succession, leaving an infant offspring of Prince William as monarch, Prince Harry would be regent.

Gut feeling in the case of Victoria would have been Ernest of Hanover, who was her heir until she had children.

Ann
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 26, 2012, 03:50:00 AM
Quote
He may have been powerless about state matters - although that changed gradually, and thoroughly - but he never was powerless in their own home. She deferred to him in matters regarding the childrens' education (being discussed), and their marriage matches, among other things.

In fact, Albert felt far from deferred to in the home, at the beginning.  One of his greatest fights was to get rid of Baroness Louise Lehzen, Victoria's former governess who had supported her through the pressures bought to bear on her before she ascended the throne by her mother and Sir John Conroy.  Lehzen gave Victoria unofficial secretarial help, which Albert considered his province, and had extensive responsibilities for the royal household, which included quite significant powers such as signing off on tradesmens' bills; and Victoria entrusted her with the appointment of her childrens' nursery attendants.  She also accepted political advice from Lehzen, although this was given very discreetly.  Albert was bitterly resentful of Lehzen, who in her turn disliked him and obstructed him in various reforms he wished carried out in the royal household, and in many ways appeared to have a role with regard to the Queen that he saw as more rightfully his; he seized the opportunity presented by a severe illness of the little Princess Victoria in 1842 to accuse Lehzen of incompetence (in her staff appointments) and although Victoria initially supported Lehzen, she finally agreed to Lehzen's taking a six-month leave of absence, for health reasons, which Albert took good care should be permanent.  With Lehzen gone, Albert stepped into the vacancy which was both domestic and political, and Victoria's repeated pregnancies meant she was not up to the task of fending off his political ambitions which she initially had jealously guarded for herself.  Quite naturally Victoria started to appreciate her husband's genuine administrative and political capabilities, to the point where he essentially was the leading partner in the marriage both domestically and politically.  But it was a fight in the beginning, and I can't but feel this may have given him a certain concern - even if an unconscious one - that it might all be taken away from him again.  In the film about the young Queen Victoria, the fight was portrayed between Albert and Lord Melbourne, but this is quite untrue; Albert's real fight was with Lehzen, much more deeply embedded in the royal household and in fact the mother figure at that time, for Victoria.  This of course was not sensational enough for Julian Fellowes.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 26, 2012, 04:06:12 AM
I will need to look up the Regency Act of the day to see who would have been regent in the event of Victoria dying before her son's majority. Under the current Regency Act it is the first adult in the line of succession. So, if the Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William were all to die in rapid succession, leaving an infant offspring of Prince William as monarch, Prince Harry would be regent.

Gut feeling in the case of Victoria would have been Ernest of Hanover, who was her heir until she had children.

Ann

Given that Ernest was King of a foreign country, would not that have excluded him
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 26, 2012, 04:14:27 AM
Sorry, pressed the 'post' button too soon - in fact, I understand that the Regency Bill of 1840 (at the time of the Queen's marriage), provided for Prince Albert to be Regent for their child who succeeded her in the event of her death before her heir or heiress reached the age of 18.  This follows the Regency Bill of 1830 which provided for the Duchess of Kent to be Regent for Victoria should she succeed before her majority, despite the Duchess of Kent not being universally popular and a foreigner to boot, rather like Prince Albert.  However, a sense of natural justice for parents seemed to prevail amongst the politicians in both cases.  But of course, it was a time-limited position.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on January 26, 2012, 08:29:41 AM
Quote
He may have been powerless about state matters - although that changed gradually, and thoroughly - but he never was powerless in their own home. She deferred to him in matters regarding the childrens' education (being discussed), and their marriage matches, among other things.

In fact, Albert felt far from deferred to in the home, at the beginning.  One of his greatest fights was to get rid of Baroness Louise Lehzen, Victoria's former governess who had supported her through the pressures bought to bear on her before she ascended the throne by her mother and Sir John Conroy.  Lehzen gave Victoria unofficial secretarial help, which Albert considered his province, and had extensive responsibilities for the royal household, which included quite significant powers such as signing off on tradesmens' bills; and Victoria entrusted her with the appointment of her childrens' nursery attendants.  She also accepted political advice from Lehzen, although this was given very discreetly.  Albert was bitterly resentful of Lehzen, who in her turn disliked him and obstructed him in various reforms he wished carried out in the royal household, and in many ways appeared to have a role with regard to the Queen that he saw as more rightfully his; he seized the opportunity presented by a severe illness of the little Princess Victoria in 1842 to accuse Lehzen of incompetence (in her staff appointments) and although Victoria initially supported Lehzen, she finally agreed to Lehzen's taking a six-month leave of absence, for health reasons, which Albert took good care should be permanent.  With Lehzen gone, Albert stepped into the vacancy which was both domestic and political, and Victoria's repeated pregnancies meant she was not up to the task of fending off his political ambitions which she initially had jealously guarded for herself.  Quite naturally Victoria started to appreciate her husband's genuine administrative and political capabilities, to the point where he essentially was the leading partner in the marriage both domestically and politically.  But it was a fight in the beginning, and I can't but feel this may have given him a certain concern - even if an unconscious one - that it might all be taken away from him again.  In the film about the young Queen Victoria, the fight was portrayed between Albert and Lord Melbourne, but this is quite untrue; Albert's real fight was with Lehzen, much more deeply embedded in the royal household and in fact the mother figure at that time, for Victoria.  This of course was not sensational enough for Julian Fellowes.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Lehzen! : P You're right on that score. I was thinking mainly of the family.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 26, 2012, 08:00:57 PM
I am learning so much here!  Today I purchased Albert: A life----anyone read it?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on January 26, 2012, 09:06:55 PM
Who's the author?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on January 27, 2012, 09:31:58 AM
Who's the author?






Jules Stewart
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: feodorovna on January 29, 2012, 01:44:39 PM
At risk of being jumped on from a great height I'm going to reveal that I've never quite bought into the love story we are lead to believe is Victoria and Albert.

Albert had been trained, coached, groomed from a young age, by Stockmar, at Leopold's behest, to become Victoria's husband. I doubt Albert's feelings or opinions were sought. He dutifully learned her likes and dislikes, the books she read, the composers she favoured, the artists she appreciated and it worked. That she fell in love with him was to his advantage, perhaps his only one. Was he ever IN love with her? He must have breathed a sigh of relief that she so obviously wanted him, it would have made his job, for job it was, much easier, but was he IN love with her? He was certainly everything Victoria wanted. Consciously or unconsciously IMO she would never have married an equal. SHE was Queen, she held a position she was unprepared to relinquish or share any part of with a man who might want some of her power for himself. She had experienced behaviour at the hands of Sir John Conroy which would she would never allow another to repeat. Her letters tell us she believed that "We poor women are at the mercy of our husbands," odd then, that her husband to be could not propose to her, had little say in the venues of the marriage and forshortened honeymoon, was allowed no say in his new wife's household and the only "job" she permitted him was that of "Husband." Hopefully, her healthy appetite provided some compensation. We could argue that he knew the score, but knowing is quite different from feeling. I believe he dealt with uncomfortable feelings-anger and frustration would be understandable-in the same way he did as a child when his mother was wrested from him. He immersed himself in books and soaked up knowledge like a sponge. I believe he soothed his increasingly troubled soul by playing and composing music.

Victoria adored him and I feel she was as good a wife to him as she was capable of being, but with her passionate, volatile temper and the imperiousness she may have used against him, she was never going to be easy to live with and maybe, over time, this wearied him. She did, however, provide him with a family life he had never previously experienced and eventually she came to realise what an enormous asset he was.

I never see Albert's life as joyful. Dutiful, diligent,serious, possessed of one of the finest minds of his generation but lacking the ability, I think, to experience spontaneity and maybe not having the capacity to fall in love, but he fulfilled to the letter all that had been asked of him, and probably, as time passed, developed love for her.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: historyfan on January 29, 2012, 08:36:37 PM
I'm not going to jump on you. : )  I will say, though, that I suppose it depends on what one's individual idea of "love" is. When you compare Albert to other royal spouses (whether they're "just consorts" or not), it would seem that Albert loved his wife enough to not run around on her, not bully his way into whatever he might have felt was "his share" of the power, to take the time to learn about her likes and dislikes, as you said.

To me, that's a pretty substantial contribution to the love story.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on January 30, 2012, 05:48:09 AM
While much pressure was clearly placed on Albert, there is no evidence that he was actually forced into the marriage against his own inclination.  He had in fact concerns that Victoria was leading a life in which she revelled in ceremony, etiquette, trivial formalities, late nights and late risings; she had no interest or pleasure in nature, and her relations with her prime minister, Lord Melbourne, were too partial.  When he arrived in England in 1839, however, she fell almost instantly in love with him, and he found she was not at all keen on ceremony etc. (though she didn't mind late nights as much as he did) and had no problems with nature.  His other options were to marry a woman of his own rank in Germany (i.e. the younger daughter of a minor German princely house) and to have either a military career in the service of a nation with a larger army than that of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (Great Britain, Prussia, Russia - Austria at a pinch), or to serve his father or brother in some minor capacity.  But here was the pretty young Queen of England, suddenly in love with him, not displaying any of the frivolities he dreaded, offering him a position the possibilities of which he never could have achieved elsewhere - why shouldn't he consider himself in love with her?  Ernest was considered just as handsome, and as clever, but Victoria ignored him and focused on Albert - there is much evidence he reciprocated.  "He was so affectionate, so kind, so dear, we kissed each other again and again...." Queen Victoria wrote, and Albert told her "Ich habe dich so lieb", and "Ich habe dich so unaussprechlich lieb" - were these the actions or words of someone forced into a dutiful alliance?  A consummate hypocrite?  Perhaps it wasn't as strong on his side as on hers, but he certainly gave the impression of someone in love, and happy with it.  (Honeymoons were not necessarily prolonged at that period – and there is no evidence whatsoever that Albert was dissatisfied with it).

He undoubtedly had a couple of years of frustration because of his wife's dominant role which she did not give up without a fight, but he won that battle early on.  What 'increasingly troubled' his soul as he grew older, to diminish what appeared to be a strong partnership where he exercised, with his wife’s willing cooperation, the leading role?  What evidence is there that his wife “wearied him”?  I am not sure that I recognise a ‘joyless’ Albert, who played practical jokes at university, and who swung his daughter in a napkin and cracked jokes at his last Christmas.  His last few years were troubled, insofar as it appears he had a chronic gastric illness, which Helen Rappaport convincingly suggests was Crohn’s disease, aggravated by overwork and worry.  But these in themselves are sufficient to suggest why an older Albert might appear to be joyless and merely dutiful, but I don’t agree that he lacked the capacity to fall in love and I think that, handed it on a plate, the young Albert did fall in love, and with Victoria.  Perhaps, after 20 years of marriage, love might not be as fresh and spontaneous as it was when he was 20, but I don’t believe it had disappeared entirely.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on February 07, 2012, 03:16:38 PM
Finally Albert by Jules Stewart arrived!  This will be a quick read----anyone read this book?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Selencia on February 11, 2012, 01:45:17 AM
It is so fascinating and astonishing that Albert was so moral and faithful when everyone around him wasn't (in regards to men). For centuries it has been taught that men are allowed to ignore their marriage vows, and during  the 1800s women had no rights to protest. Yet despite all that Albert was a faithful husband; I wonder what drove him? I've either read or seen in a documentary that it was rooted in his mother's banishment.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on February 11, 2012, 03:25:46 AM
It is so fascinating and astonishing that Albert was so moral and faithful when everyone around him wasn't (in regards to men). For centuries it has been taught that men are allowed to ignore their marriage vows, and during  the 1800s women had no rights to protest. Yet despite all that Albert was a faithful husband; I wonder what drove him? I've either read or seen in a documentary that it was rooted in his mother's banishment.

While I agree that Albert's horror at sexual impropriety was probably very strongly connected to his parents' marriage breakdown and his mother's divorce and banishment, his faithfullness to his marriage vows was part of a wider reaction of his generation to the previous one, of 'modern' morality and probity as opposed to the perceived degradation and vice of the former leaders of society as represented by Victoria's uncles, George IV and William IV in particular, with their mistresses and illegitimate children and extravagance.  So I don't think it was just a personal code - after all, Albert's brother Ernest presumably suffered just as much in losing his mother, but never saw any reason to be faithful to his marriage vows.  Albert saw himself as a modern man, one who had no commerce with the old court and its degenerate and corrupt ways.  And indeed, although it took a long time, the 19th century did see the advancement in the treatment of women, not least in the public intolerance of politicians who were exposed for sexual misconduct - successive reform bills gave a wider franchise to men who demonstrated that they, too, did not approve of marriage vows being broken.  Politicians such as Melbourne and Palmerston, whose morals would not have stood up to public scrutiny later in the century, gave way to Peel and Gladstone and Lord Salisbury, whose marriages were exemplary (and Gladstone's attempts to 'rescue' prostitutes had to be carefully hidden, in case the cynical public misunderstood).  Given Albert was not especially popular, and his sexual propriety certainly not admired by much of aristocratic society, it was not his example which influenced the public into greater demands for proper marital conduct; rather, he was in the forefront of new social developments which were moving away from the older, socially lax values.  This was not only demonstrated in the area of marriage, but in areas such as the reduction of patronage (e.g., reforms of the army so you could no longer purchase commissions, reforms of the civil service so you could no longer appoint your friends and relatives to jobs without examinations, and indeed, reforms of womens’ rights so at least they had control over their own money).  The 19th century was certainly repressive to women, but one can see it as a time when very longstanding inequalities were gradually corrected, and Albert was certainly part of this ‘progressive’ movement; his sexual continence may have been a personal drive, but it was also part of his being a modern man of his time.     
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: po3a on February 12, 2012, 12:43:34 PM
I'm reading a wonderful book   Albert---Jules Stewart.  In this book the author explains that Albert showed inherent goodness and intelligence from a young age recogniseed by Uncle Leopold.  In adolescence Albert began to display an extraordinarily rigorous self-imposed standard of high moral behaviour.  It gives examples of his empathy towards peasants living near Rosenau.  I guess this is the old question of nature verses nurture...I have been a teacher of small children for 17 years.  I believe that nurture plays a role in a persons development but, one is born who they are.  Albert's mother abandonnment played a role in making him the man the he was but, I believe this was a man born with a beautiful soul.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Selencia on February 18, 2012, 08:45:21 PM
It's hard to swallow that Albert's morality was a generational thing when every man around him, including his brother, was still being unfaithful and sleeping with every woman they came across. If Victoria had married Ernst instead of Albert he more than likely would not have been faithful to her. I believe Victoria's court as well were not very moral despite the standards of Victoria and Albert; and Albert's own son continued the tradition of his paternal and maternal uncles. There are only a select few of men during Albert's times who were not disgraces to their gender, and rather than being a new trend that would last for decades, they appear to have just been lone islands of morality.
Either way, considering that Albert's influences were his father and brother, it is surprising and admirable that he ended up being so much better than them.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on February 19, 2012, 05:14:38 AM
It's hard to swallow that Albert's morality was a generational thing when every man around him, including his brother, was still being unfaithful and sleeping with every woman they came across. If Victoria had married Ernst instead of Albert he more than likely would not have been faithful to her. I believe Victoria's court as well were not very moral despite the standards of Victoria and Albert; and Albert's own son continued the tradition of his paternal and maternal uncles. There are only a select few of men during Albert's times who were not disgraces to their gender, and rather than being a new trend that would last for decades, they appear to have just been lone islands of morality.
Either way, considering that Albert's influences were his father and brother, it is surprising and admirable that he ended up being so much better than them.
I think it's a bit overstated that 'every man around' Albert was 'still being unfaithful and sleeping with every woman they came across'.  Certainly his father and brother were unfaithful to their wives but it is interesting that neither Albert nor Ernest were aware of why their mother had been sent away, and there was no subsequent overt dissoluteness in the Coburg court - whatever his father's private morals might have been - as this would have unquestionably impacted on Albert's marital prospects and been discussed in the context of his marriage by the English court and politicians.  As for Albert's immediate role models, in fact his father was friendly but took a far from close or immediate part in his upbringing and his tutor Florschutz, with whom Albert did have a close relationship, was a man of impecable morals, as was his later advisor, friend and mentor, Baron Stockmar.  Nor is there any evidence of friends of his youth such as Count Arthur Mensdorff-Pouilly being especially dissolute.  While I agree that it is to Albert's credit that he did in fact, see no reason to follow his father or brother into sexual impropriety, I don't think theirs was by any means the only, or indeed the greatest, male influences in his life from an early age. 
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Lucien on April 22, 2012, 01:17:39 AM

Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee scrapbook is launched:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/LatestNewsandDiary/Pressreleases/2012/QueenVictoriasDiamondJubileeScrapbookislaunched.aspx


Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: DNAgenie on May 09, 2012, 06:40:10 PM
The male line of Prnce Albert has now been established as belonging to the Y-DNA haplogroup known as R1b1a2a. 

Y-DNA matches within this group have been found between two descendants from different lines of the House of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha.  One of the men with matching Y-DNA results is a descendant of Albert and Victoria's son Leopold, Duke of Albany.  The other descends from the liaison of Albert's uncle Leopold I of Belgium with Arcadia Meyer, whose two sons were created Freiherrs von Eppinghoven.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Lucien on May 24, 2012, 12:51:03 PM
HM Queen Elizabeth II at the launch of Queen Victoria's Journals:

http://www.queenvictoriasjournals.org/home.do


Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 24, 2012, 01:14:12 PM
It is a WONDERFUL resource! www.queenvictoriasjournals.org. You can select the year, month & day and read the entry. Fascinating!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Dru on May 24, 2012, 04:20:44 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8155/7263882160_b134270ef4_z.jpg)

Albert by Brocky.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: rosieposie on July 02, 2012, 01:26:35 AM
:UPDATE:  This is in response to an earlier post I made in regards to Queen Victoria's complete outfit, including hat, boots and undergarments.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167120/Queen-Victoria-mourning-dress-wore-late-1800s-sells-times-expected-price.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167120/Queen-Victoria-mourning-dress-wore-late-1800s-sells-times-expected-price.html)

Picutres again

(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/rosieposieAP/Queenvic.jpg)

(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/rosieposieAP/queenvictunic.jpg)

(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/rosieposieAP/queenvicbloomers.jpg)

Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carisbrooke on July 18, 2012, 02:00:22 AM
Queen Victoria's Osborne House Beach open to public.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174602/Queen-Victorias-private-beach-Osborne-opened-public.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174602/Queen-Victorias-private-beach-Osborne-opened-public.html)

Queen Victoria's Bathing Machine. One of my pictures from 2008.
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/844/dscn0388a.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on July 18, 2012, 10:20:29 AM
You've got to admire the stamina of Victorian ladies, since bathing seemed to consist in standing in the sea, dressed in woollen garments, and having your head shoved under the water by powerful women of the lower classes.  Most invigorating.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carisbrooke on July 23, 2012, 02:21:39 AM
  ..........and a BBC news report to mark the event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ1KnTJTUts&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ1KnTJTUts&feature=relmfu)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Suzanne on July 31, 2012, 09:05:11 AM
Fascinating new book just came out about the attempts on Queen Victoria's life

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-victorian-book-reviews-2-shooting-victoria-madness-mayhem-and-the-rebirth-of-the-british-monarchy-by-paul-thomas-murphy/
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: LauraO on August 15, 2012, 05:15:59 AM
I couldnt find anything on this, but it may have been asked before, i was watching a tv show in which antique experts go to the houses of ordinary people and make bids on their antiques, recently in a property on the isle of white an old pharmacutical book was found containing entries dated between 1896 and 1913 naming a number of important people of the time that were prescribed medication. At the beginning of the book was an entry made for Queen Victoria in which she was prescribed Belladonna to be diluted with i think it said cinnamen water (not 100% on that bit)
the suggestion was put forward on the show that belladonna would have been taken for pregnancy , firstly id never heard belladonna be used to cure morning sickness as was suggested but also of course the dates clearly don't stack up, queen victoria was far past morning sickess age.
has anyone heard of this or know what/why it would have been taken by QV?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: CountessKate on August 15, 2012, 04:11:37 PM
Quote
I couldnt find anything on this, but it may have been asked before, i was watching a tv show in which antique experts go to the houses of ordinary people and make bids on their antiques, recently in a property on the isle of white an old pharmacutical book was found containing entries dated between 1896 and 1913 naming a number of important people of the time that were prescribed medication. At the beginning of the book was an entry made for Queen Victoria in which she was prescribed Belladonna to be diluted with i think it said cinnamen water (not 100% on that bit)
the suggestion was put forward on the show that belladonna would have been taken for pregnancy , firstly id never heard belladonna be used to cure morning sickness as was suggested but also of course the dates clearly don't stack up, queen victoria was far past morning sickess age.
has anyone heard of this or know what/why it would have been taken by QV?

Belladonna was an ingredient of the treatment - which included opiates - prescribed for Queen Victoria during childbirth to reduce pain and consciousness, called 'Twilight Sleep' as it produced a trance-like state.  It was overtaken by "blessed chloroform" as Victoria described it, but that was only for her last two children, Leopold and Beatrice.  Other uses of belladonna in medicine at the time were for the treatment of headaches, motion sickness, and menstrual symptoms.  Queen Victoria indeed would have been well past menstrual and pregnancy symptoms by 1896, but may have been prescribed small, diluted doses of belladonna for headaches which she suffered from throughout her life as she was used to the drug.  The use of belladonna had to be carefully controlled as it was highly toxic in higher concentrates, which is why it gradually fell out of use in the 20th century. 
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Suzanne on May 21, 2013, 11:11:40 AM
Interesting new book about Queen Victoria's relationship with her household

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-victorian-book-reviews-4-serving-victoria-life-in-the-royal-household-by-kate-hubbard/
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RoyalWatcher on May 21, 2013, 05:57:26 PM
Suzanne, very interesting indeed. Thank you for providing a lovely summary of the book...makes me want to know more!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: gillian on May 27, 2013, 01:06:25 PM
Browsing the Royal Collection and found this:
(http://s22.postimg.org/x618gxy7x/2914323_299420_ORI_0_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/x618gxy7x/)
which seems to match this picture. I wonder if the colors are accurate, I didn't expect the dress to be green :) Either way I thought it was a nice drawing.
(http://s22.postimg.org/lsep5qnp9/queenvictorawedding_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/lsep5qnp9/)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 27, 2013, 01:38:21 PM
For a court gown, green is OK. I love it !! Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: grandduchessella on May 27, 2013, 02:55:45 PM
I've seen the 2nd photo marked numerous times recently as a recreation of Victoria & Albert's wedding since they were married before photography was used. I had always thought it was a Court event. Her dress is similar to her wedding dress (and she's wearing a floral coronet and veil rather than a tiara) and Albert is in uniform and not court dress--just like for the wedding. Does anyone know the story?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 28, 2013, 09:51:29 AM
Im pretty sure this was discussed somewhere in the forum, when someone posted this image as"wedding photo" . I cant find those messages :-(
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 28, 2013, 11:43:20 AM
Sorry for the doublepost, but i find the description of the image in the RCT

"Description:

Photograph showing a full length portrait of Queen Victoria (1819-1901) and Prince Albert (1819-61), photographed at Buckingham Palace. Queen Victoria stands in right side profile and wears court dress. Prince Albert stands in left side profile, holding a feathered hat in his left hand and wears a uniform. There is a pedestal between them, with flowers upon it.

Queen Victoria and Prince Albert are wearing court dress, having just attended a Drawing Room, a formal ceremony at St James’s Palace in which people were presented to the Queen. This image, one of a set of at least six, is the first photograph of the Queen as a reigning monarch rather than as wife or mother."


http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/2906084/queen-victoria-and-prince-albert-buckingham-palace

So its actually a court gown acording the RCT. Im confused.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carisbrooke on July 24, 2014, 01:49:22 AM
ALBION HOUSE RAMSGATE

Albion House Ramsgate, link by Geograph.org. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3603921 (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3603921)

(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/picturewall-55/DSCN0014_zpsb38c84f0.jpg)
Refurbishment of Albion House Ramsgate, July 2014. Soon to open as a boutique hotel.
(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/picturewall-55/DSCN0025_zps0e2aa22b.jpg)
Between the 7th and 31st of October 1835 Princess Victoria had a severe attack of typhoid. Whilst convalescing the dastardly John Conroy commanded her to sign a document that would make him her private secretary, ......she would not. Despite this Victoria seems to have fond memories of Ramsgate.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carisbrooke on July 24, 2014, 07:05:03 AM
Albion House in bygone days.
(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/picturewall-55/DSCN0027_zps0824a829.jpg)
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Carisbrooke on July 25, 2014, 07:12:35 AM
TOWNLEY HOUSE RAMSGATE
(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/picturewall-55/DSCN0007_zps44b015ca.jpg)
The Infant Princess Victoria & the Duchess of Kent also stayed here for several months in the 1820s.
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on November 11, 2014, 02:50:16 PM
 their was a documentary  recently on her letters if im not mistaken
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Joanna on October 29, 2016, 10:16:46 AM
Royal Travelling Entourages with 70 / 90 Attendants

Note- Augusta of Saxe-Gotha arrives with her doll like Grand Duchess Olga in Athens with her dolls

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/10/royal-travelling-entourages-with-70-90.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: RoyalWatcher on February 06, 2017, 05:22:39 PM
In the U.S., Victoria is currently running on PBS. For those watching or who have already watched the show (U.K. audience), what do/did you think of this latest Queen Victoria offering?
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: JGP on February 07, 2017, 04:24:23 PM
In the U.S., Victoria is currently running on PBS. For those watching or who have already watched the show (U.K. audience), what do/did you think of this latest Queen Victoria offering?

Ella Kay, the Royal Jeweler Website blogger has been covering it and writing recaps.  She covers all of the historical inaccuracies both in the "story" as well as the jewels.  She is very witty and her recaps are very amusing. 

http://www.thecourtjeweller.com/2017/01/jewels-on-film-victoria-episode-1-part.html?m=1
http://www.thecourtjeweller.com/2017/01/jewels-on-film-victoria-episode-1-part_19.html?m=1
http://www.thecourtjeweller.com/2017/01/jewels-on-film-victoria-episode-2.html?m=1
http://www.thecourtjeweller.com/2017/01/jewels-on-film-victoria-episode-3.html?m=1
http://www.thecourtjeweller.com/2017/02/jewels-on-film-victoria-episode-4.html?m=1
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Joanna on July 26, 2017, 09:43:36 AM
Prince Albert and Grand Duchess Olga in Teplitz 1835

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2017/07/prince-albert-and-grand-duchess-olga-in.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Joanna on November 15, 2018, 05:16:59 AM
Prince Albert’s Stepmother’s Last Will Beneficiary

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/prince-alberts-stepmothers-last-will.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Queen Victoria & Prince Albert--Photos and Information
Post by: Joanna on December 04, 2018, 03:07:16 AM
Carl Ruland, Prince Albert's Private Secretary:

http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2018/11/prince-alberts-private-secretary.html

Joanna