Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: KarlandZita on December 15, 2012, 07:57:02 AM

Title: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on December 15, 2012, 07:57:02 AM
Princess Charlotte, Duchess of Valentinois and her kids :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/226711valentinois.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=226711valentinois.jpg)

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/632478monac.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=632478monac.jpg)
Title: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lucien on March 22, 2013, 10:53:21 AM

Princess Caroline became a grandmother on thursday as her d-i-l to be,Tatiana Santo Domingo,gave birth to a healthy son,
Carolines son Andrea Casiraghi is the proud father.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 22, 2013, 03:34:14 PM
Wonderful!!! now i cant wait to see images of the little one!!
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on March 27, 2013, 06:06:18 PM
The name is Sacha.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on April 12, 2013, 09:06:55 AM
For anyone who wants to read it, the new issue of Vanity Fair (with the always lovely & elegant Audrey Hepburn on the cover--a photo from the 1950s) has an article on the fallout from that club brawl that Pierre Casiraghi was involved in. Apparently the lawsuits are still flying around and the poor club owner actually lost his business because of the 2 groups fighting--none of the NYC or international set that made up the club's base wanted to go to a place where something like that could a) happen and b) get so out of hand. Pierre isn't the focus of the story but is obviously a major participant.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on July 10, 2013, 05:11:13 PM
Has anyone seen the recent photos of Charlotte Casiraghi? Many are speculating that she is expecting her first child.

(http://www.hellomagazine.com/imagenes/royalty/2013063013285/charlotte-casiraghi-monaco-horse-jumping/0-68-182/charlotte-5--a.jpg)

It's rather in the Grimaldi tradition to anticipate the wedding vows with a child:

So far, Prince Albert's only children are illegitimate (Jazmin Grimaldi  and Alexandre Coste)
Andrea, Charlotte's older brother, just had his first child (Sacha) with his fiancee
Caroline was pregnant with Andrea when she married their father --also with Alexandra Hannover
Stephanie had all three of her children out of wedlock, legitimising the two elder children by marrying their father later.
Antoinette (Rainier's sister) had some of her children before marrying their father.
Princess Charlotte (Rainier's mother) was born out of wedlock and was both adopted and legitimised to become heiress in Monaco (this may yet happen to Andrea's son Sacha)

Seems the only one who actually has some importance to having a legitimate child (Albert II) is the only one not having one!

http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2013070113299/charlotte-casiraghi-pregnancy-rumours/
http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2013/06/another-grandchild-for-princess-caroline.html

And, I know it's been said before, but my word she is her mother's spitting image:

(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/zLWHDdP0zAhm.jpg)  (http://img.purseforum.com/attachments/celebrity-forums/celebrity-style-threads/1433248d1308801342-princess-caroline-of-monaco-1974-54923934-lgn.jpg)

(http://randysloan.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/charolette_grace_kelly.jpg)  (http://www4.images.coolspotters.com/photos/623320/princess-caroline-of-monaco-and-smoking-profile.jpg)

Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on August 07, 2013, 06:06:22 PM
Apparently, Andrea is going to marry his fiancee (and thus legitimize his son Sacha) at the end of the month and Charlotte is indeed expecting her first child. 
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: KarlandZita on August 17, 2013, 07:44:38 AM
Princess Charlotte in 1928 :

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/766049charlotmonaco.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=766049charlotmonaco.jpg)
Title: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lucien on August 31, 2013, 03:01:26 AM
Apparently, Andrea is going to marry his fiancee (and thus legitimize his son Sacha) at the end of the month and Charlotte is indeed expecting her first child. 

The low key wedding is today in the Throne room of the Palace in Monaco,followed by a religious service in Gstaad in december.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on August 31, 2013, 09:11:52 AM
There was a photo of the pre-wedding 'girl's day out' get-together and Charlotte's really showing at this point.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Jen_94 on August 31, 2013, 03:40:44 PM
I think Charlotte is around 5 or 6 months pregnant or so?

I've seen some pictures floating around from after Tatiana and Andrea's wedding ceremony.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 31, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
Here

http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2013083114355/andrea-casiraghi-tatiana-monaco-wedding/

And here

http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2013083114346/andrea-casiraghi-tatiana-santo-domingo-monaco-wedding/
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on August 31, 2013, 03:56:16 PM
Marlene reports that the larger religious ceremony will take place in Gstaad in a few months.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lucien on September 01, 2013, 01:05:57 AM
Apparently, Andrea is going to marry his fiancee (and thus legitimize his son Sacha) at the end of the month and Charlotte is indeed expecting her first child.  

The low key wedding is today in the Throne room of the Palace in Monaco,followed by a religious service in Gstaad in december.

That is what I said GDElla...;)...
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on September 01, 2013, 05:20:23 PM
Apparently, Andrea is going to marry his fiancee (and thus legitimize his son Sacha) at the end of the month and Charlotte is indeed expecting her first child.  

The low key wedding is today in the Throne room of the Palace in Monaco,followed by a religious service in Gstaad in december.

That is what I said GDElla...;)...

LOL How I didn't even see that..... :)
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: RoyalWatcher on October 09, 2013, 03:06:35 PM
Wow! Princess Charlene looked AMAZING last night at the Ralph Lauren Collection Show and private dinner at Les Beaux-Arts de Paris, Paris France. Beautiful hair, makeup, a colorful dress and she wore jewelry....lovely huge drop earrings and a gorgeous bracelet. She really looked lovely and regal! She looks so comfortable in her own skin so to speak. More so than in months and years past, in my humble opinion. You can see her look here: http://www.newmyroyals.com/2013/10/princess-charlene-in-paris_9.html.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Jen_94 on October 11, 2013, 06:14:15 AM
I agree! I thought she looked beautiful, the dress really suited her well.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Grace on December 18, 2013, 07:09:59 PM
Charlotte Casiraghi (daughter of HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover) and her partner Gad Elmaleh, a Moroccan/French actor/comedian, have become parents to a son named Raphael, born on December 17 in Monaco.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lindelle on April 01, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
Any pics of Charlotte's baby Sacha?
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on April 05, 2014, 06:43:04 PM
Any pics of Charlotte's baby Sacha?

Саша (или Александр Андреа Стефано) Казираги - сыном Андреа Казираги и Татьяны Санто-Доминго.
Фото: http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/1963623.html

Шарлотт Казираги с сыном Рафаэлем.
Фото: http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/1888618.html


Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lindelle on April 07, 2014, 09:19:24 PM
Thankyou so much - he's lovely
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on April 29, 2014, 06:40:24 PM
Княгиня Шарлин получила награду от Риз Уизерспун. = Princess Charlène received an award from Reece Witherspoon.
Риз Уизерспун - LOL!

Смотрите здесь: http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/2093842.html (http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/2093842.html)
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 10, 2014, 06:08:43 PM
So the new Grace Kelly film starring Nicole Kidman is attracting criticism, both from the Princiary Family and reviewers. Reportedly it will highlight some more tragic aspects of Princess Grace's life. What I find most surprising about her married life is the fact that she always was more or less uncomfortable speaking French! It really shatters the princesse des contes de fées illusion.

À propos language, her paternal grandparents must have been native Gaelic speakers (hailing from western Connacht), while her maternal grandparents were native Germans. And not dirt poor emigrants like Charlène's freed-serf Wittstock ancestors from the Uckermark in Pomerania. Her grandfather fled to the US from a bankruptcy scandal, but back in Württemberg the family was quite patrician and had their own small castle by the sea (Lake Constance), just like Grace was to have in Monaco.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: edubs31 on May 10, 2014, 06:13:40 PM
She's from Philly. We don't speak much French here :-)
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 10, 2014, 06:25:04 PM
She's from Philly. We don't speak much French here :-)

I guess the Bouviers were an exception among the Philadelphians. But with the city having the second-largest Irish population in the US, it's amazing to think of what a (passive) Gaeltacht it once was!
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on May 10, 2014, 08:34:36 PM
She's from Philly. We don't speak much French here :-)

I guess the Bouviers were an exception among the Philadelphians. But with the city having the second-largest Irish population in the US, it's amazing to think of what a (passive) Gaeltacht it once was!
The Bouviers - are you referring to JBKO's family?   They were not Philadelphians.   I believe they hailed from New York.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 10, 2014, 08:40:04 PM
The Bouviers - are you referring to JBKO's family?   They were not Philadelphians.   I believe they hailed from New York.

Yes, you are right, although the first Bouvier lived in Philadelphia.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on May 10, 2014, 09:32:28 PM
The Bouviers - are you referring to JBKO's family?   They were not Philadelphians.   I believe they hailed from New York.

Yes, you are right, although the first Bouvier lived in Philadelphia.
That's right, and he was French.  What does that have to do with Grace Kelly not being comfortable speaking French?   I've read several of your posts on this forum and you always seem to go off on tangents.  It appears to me that you are trying to impress (someone?)  with your knowledge of languages when all you really do is confuse the issue of the orginal post.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 10, 2014, 09:45:06 PM
It appears to me that you are trying to impress (someone?)  with your knowledge of languages when all you really do is confuse the issue of the orginal post.

Trust me, it's not so much me being knowledgeable as others being quite ignorant!
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 12, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
That's right, and he was French.  What does that have to do with Grace Kelly not being comfortable speaking French?

OK, what about Benjamin Franklin, then? The most famous Philadelphian and ideal American was a highly successful US ambassador to France. That is a heavy historic precedent for a (self-made) Philadelphian gaining a prominent role in a French-speaking country!

Quote
I've read several of your posts on this forum and you always seem to go off on tangents.]I've read several of your posts on this forum and you always seem to go off on tangents.

I've read your 88 posts and they all seem to say the obvious.

Quote
It appears to me that you are trying to impress (someone?)  with your knowledge of languages when all you really do is confuse the issue of the orginal post.

On a forum about Russian royals of mainly German descent at a Francophone court, vacationing in Finland, Poland and Denmark, I see it as my duty to help others learn Russian, German, French, Danish, Finnish, Swedish etc. just like I expect them to help me learn Russian through content-based learning. No better way to learn than through a subject one is already passionate about.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 12, 2014, 08:41:25 PM
Besides their tragic deaths, the issues of isolation and frustration combined with the language issue really form an interesting parallell between Princess Grace, Alexandra Fyodorovna and also Maud of Britain / Denmark / Norway. Three very different women who all seem to have clung to their native English language in a foreign land, preferring to speak it with their children.

Personally I find it odd that a successful actress like Grace Kelly could have problems with French, juste un dialect de l'anglais en certains aspects, when a shy person like Alexandra Fyodorovna managed to become fluent in Russian.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: edubs31 on May 12, 2014, 10:31:22 PM
Besides their tragic deaths, the issues of isolation and frustration combined with the language issue really form an interesting parallell between Princess Grace, Alexandra Fyodorovna and also Maud of Britain / Denmark / Norway. Three very different women who all seem to have clung to their native English language in a foreign land, preferring to speak it with their children.

Personally I find it odd that a successful actress like Grace Kelly could have problems with French, juste un dialect de l'anglais en certains aspects, when a shy person like Alexandra Fyodorovna managed to become fluent in Russian.

I wouldn't call Alexandra's Russian fluent. She is said to have struggled a great deal learning the language and, as we know, was happy to avoid having to speak it in intimate circles. English was generally spoken when she was around her husband and children. That said I would have to imagine it a harder transition going from English & German to Russian, as Alexandra did, than English to French as Princess Grace struggled to do.

There are some very intelligent people who simply don't have a knack for languages.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 13, 2014, 07:51:30 AM
I wouldn't call Alexandra's Russian fluent. She is said to have struggled a great deal learning the language and, as we know, was happy to avoid having to speak it in intimate circles. English was generally spoken when she was around her husband and children.

If we don't call her Russian fluent, based on the eyewitness accounts and memoirs, I think we are too critical. Yes, she had a Germanic (German-English) accent, sometimes had to search for words, probably made grammatical mistakes and was so shy she tried to avoid situations where she was forced to speak it, but it appears to me she was fairly fluent. As Inok Nikolai noted in the thread about her Russian competence, she easily dashed off long letters in Russian, indicating it was shyness rather than inability that hindered her oral fluency.

It seems that no-one who met her had problems understanding her Russian, even if they thought it a little curieux.

Like many foreign language learners, she was probably too hard on herself.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: edubs31 on May 13, 2014, 08:47:32 AM
I wouldn't call Alexandra's Russian fluent. She is said to have struggled a great deal learning the language and, as we know, was happy to avoid having to speak it in intimate circles. English was generally spoken when she was around her husband and children.

If we don't call her Russian fluent, based on the eyewitness accounts and memoirs, I think we are too critical. Yes, she had a Germanic (German-English) accent, sometimes had to search for words, probably made grammatical mistakes and was so shy she tried to avoid situations where she was forced to speak it, but it appears to me she was fairly fluent. As Inok Nikolai noted in the thread about her Russian competence, she easily dashed off long letters in Russian, indicating it was shyness rather than inability that hindered her oral fluency.

It seems that no-one who met her had problems understanding her Russian, even if they thought it a little curieux.

Like many foreign language learners, she was probably too hard on herself.

Fair points. Another thing to consider - although I have to admit not being certain on this one - is that Alix had also learned French and German, in addition to English, prior to taking on Russian. Grace Kelly I don't believe spoke anything but English before moving to Monaco. When one has already had to go through the process of learning multiple languages, and at a younger age to boot, does it not make it easier to learn more?

How much did Princess Grace struggle with French? Was she simply a slow learner in this particular area or was her French poor for the rest of her life?

As you pointed out there are also some interesting parallels between Alix and Grace...Naturally both were from notable families. Alix of course a European royal and the granddaughter of the great Queen Victoria. Grace, on a smaller scale, being from one on of the more renowned aristocratic families in America. Both had a quickly arranged marriage and sudden move from one culture to a completely different one. A fair amount of loneliness experienced by both women. Difficulty with their new subjects and the pressures of being a highly visible monarch (although for different reasons - Grace wanted to return to acting in a limited capacity whereas Alexandra didn't give a hoot about being Russian court life and being seen). Both considered great beauties of their day, and both dying relatively young from tragic circumstances. One difference that stands out is Grace having trouble with her "ill behaved" daughters whereas Alexandra had no such difficulty with OTMA. That said both of their sets of children did present them with difficulties. Grace keeping her daughters out of the tabloids and Alexandra consumed by Alexei's hemophilia.

Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 13, 2014, 12:04:57 PM
Another thing to consider - although I have to admit not being certain on this one - is that Alix had also learned French and German, in addition to English, prior to taking on Russian. Grace Kelly I don't believe spoke anything but English before moving to Monaco. When one has already had to go through the process of learning multiple languages, and at a younger age to boot, does it not make it easier to learn more?

Firstly, I read somewhere that Grace's mother, the daughter of German immigrants from the upper class of Württemberg, tried to make her daughters learn German, but they protested, saying that after WWI German was an unpatriotic language for Americans. Any Grace Kelly fans out there who know or can check biographies?

Anyway the German element must have been substantial in her childhood, with her German maternal grandmother (who actually was Hessian by birth) living untill 1949 and dying in Philadelphia.

To actually grow up as bilingual, like Alexandra did, greatly facilitates language acquisition later in life. Just learning or being taught another language does not necessarily do so, it might just as well put the child or adolescent off all language learning in the future. (Especially if it's connected to a conflict with the parents, like it appears to have been in Grace's case and / or done with tedious methods of cramming without focus on actual communication.)

Quote
How much did Princess Grace struggle with French? Was she simply a slow learner in this particular area or was her French poor for the rest of her life?

Considering that one documentary said she worked on her Philly accent during her acting training, recorded it and listened to it and succeeded in transforming it into the legendary mid-Atlantic accent of old movies I don't think it was lack of ability or drive. Rather, there were probably psychological reasons in addition to lack of immersion into a Francophone environment.

Here is a clip from a documentary narrated by the wonderfully snooty, pedophile snob and former French minister of culture Frédéric Mitterand in which she speaks French: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmPgF1NXN5E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmPgF1NXN5E) Starting at 1:00, it sounds like she is searching for the words and not quite at ease, but it's fully comprehensible French. (You hear a lot of strange accents on French TV, from bilingual countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Quebéc and former colonies) just as much as on American TV, I presume.)

I read somewhere her French improved over the years and she practised by reading (and acting out?) French plays.

Quote
Grace, on a smaller scale, being from one on of the more renowned aristocratic families in America.

Are we being a bit too patriotic on behalf of a fellow Philadelphian? :-)
They were not an old family like the Bouviers and were not accepted by Philpadelphia Main Line society, I've read.

Quote
There are some very intelligent people who simply don't have a knack for languages.

There is the famous left and right brain divide, some being more into the communicative aspect, others more into the systematic aspect, but I think all intelligent people easily can learn a language if they have to and set their mind to it. But not all intelligent people see the need for it, some are so driven by a thirst for new knowledge that they find it unnecessary to learn new ways to say and hear the same things.

But from the top of my head I can't think of any very intelligent person who struggled to learn languages.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: edubs31 on May 13, 2014, 03:27:10 PM
Quote
Are we being a bit too patriotic on behalf of a fellow Philadelphian? :-)

Well I was the same person who mocked Philadelphia culture as being adverse to French. Franklin (born in Boston I might add) is revered of course, but the post-colonial identity of Philadelphia is not exactly worldly, and it sure as hell ain't sympathetic to the French. It's largely a blue-collared town with a "Freedom Fries" anti-aristocratic mentality. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but the Philadelphia of the 20th century and beyond is not really a place where new & enlightened ideas spring forth.

Quote
They were not an old family like the Bouviers and were not accepted by Philpadelphia Main Line society, I've read.

Funny you mention this. I should actually retract my previous statement about them being a prominent "aristocratic" family, but not for the reasons you are suggesting. Grace's father Jack was a working man. Son of Irish and German immigrants he laid brick and even built the family state in East Falls the same year, 1929, that Grace was born. Before that he became a world-class athlete. He married a Temple gal (my Alma mater) who later became head of the Phys-ed department at the University of Penn, back at a time when Penn was an elite school for athletics (side note - the Palestra is still the best arena in the country to watch a college basketball game!). He then owned the largest construction company on the East Coast of the US that made him a millionaire.

After that he decided to get into politics and he became the most respectable "loser" in Philadelphia political history. What do I mean by that? Well Kelly was a Democrat in a city dominated (at that point in time) by Republicans. In 1931 the Democratic mayoral candidate won just 10% of the vote...TEN PERCENT! Just four years later in 1935 Kelly lost by a margin of just 53-47%. This was a stunning accomplishment, not only for a Democrat but a Catholic in a city that was strongly anti-Catholicism. Philadelphia in fact was the last of the major northern American cities to elect a Catholic mayor. Had the race taken place a year later, during Franklin Roosevelt's historical landslide reelection, Kelly surely would have won. As it was there were many claiming corrupting and that at least 30,000 Democratic votes mysteriously found there way into the Schuylkill River...the same river that Jack did his rowing on! A few years later FDR made Jack Kelly the National Fitness Director. A post that became more important than ever given the US involvement in WW2 and the need for stronger, more athletic young men.

That he fathered an eventual Princess, who also happened to be a talented Oscar winning actress and, well, one of the most beautiful women in history is, hard as it might be to believe, almost trivial by comparison. Jack Kelly's life is not only a quintessential Rocky-esque Philadelphia story, but it is in many ways the perfect example of the 'American Dream'. That the Main Line society folks, mostly borish snobs, Republican (back then) and probably anti-Catholic as well, rejected the Kelly's is not a surprise, nor is it anything less than a compliment.

Quote
Considering that one documentary said she worked on her Philly accent during her acting training, recorded it and listened to it and succeeded in transforming it into the legendary mid-Atlantic accent of old movies I don't think it was lack of ability or drive. Rather, there were probably psychological reasons in addition to lack of immersion into a Francophone environment.

Good points. A legendary speaking voice indeed.

Quote
I read somewhere her French improved over the years and she practised by reading (and acting out?) French plays.

Well I hear she did do some occasional acting. Maybe Alexandra's daughter Anastasia could have her taught her the language if they had only lived in the same time :-)

Quote
But from the top of my head I can't think of any very intelligent person who struggled to learn languages.

But at the same time I can think of a number of stupid people who are bi/multilingual.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 13, 2014, 04:05:05 PM
Quote
Are we being a bit too patriotic on behalf of a fellow Philadelphian? :-)

Oh no, I didn't mean you haven't got all right to be proud of Grace Kelly! I meant that that she was hardly aristocratic. Meritocratic, yes, as you point out, but not aristocracy. (Except for her maternal great great grandfather who was Johann Christian von Majer, Ducal Württembergian Superior Tribunal Councillor and his landed gentry descendants of Helmsdorf Castle.

Quote
Quote
I read somewhere her French improved over the years and she practised by reading (and acting out?) French plays.

Well I hear she did do some occasional acting. Maybe Alexandra's daughter Anastasia could have her taught her the language if they had only lived in the same time :-)

I'm not sure Anastasia Nikolayevna was such a diligent student of Mr. Gilliard that she could have taught anyone French, or even speak it herself.

Quote
Quote
But from the top of my head I can't think of any very intelligent person who struggled to learn languages.

But at the same time I can think of a number of stupid people who are bi/multilingual.

Certainly true!
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: edubs31 on May 13, 2014, 06:47:53 PM
Quote
Oh no, I didn't mean you haven't got all right to be proud of Grace Kelly! I meant that that she was hardly aristocratic. Meritocratic, yes, as you point out, but not aristocracy.

I'm still interested in learning more about this Main Line society you speak of. How much of their objection to the Kelly family had to do with religion (Catholic) and politics (Democrat)? Or maybe it was a business dispute with Jack Kelly's construction company. It's easy to hate someone when you are opposed to their religion, politics and business practices...that's a triple whammy there!

Quote
I'm not sure Anastasia Nikolayevna was such a diligent student of Mr. Gilliard that she could have taught anyone French, or even speak it herself.

Well, perhaps. Although she was said to have an authentic sounding French accent. But I was mostly referring to Anastasia's fondness for acting out French plays. Your comment about Princess Grace possibly learning French in such a way reminded me of this, especially given the comparisons we were making between her and Alexandra.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on May 14, 2014, 09:40:32 AM
Quote
Oh no, I didn't mean you haven't got all right to be proud of Grace Kelly! I meant that that she was hardly aristocratic. Meritocratic, yes, as you point out, but not aristocracy.

I'm still interested in learning more about this Main Line society you speak of. How much of their objection to the Kelly family had to do with religion (Catholic) and politics (Democrat)? Or maybe it was a business dispute with Jack Kelly's construction company. It's easy to hate someone when you are opposed to their religion, politics and business practices...that's a triple whammy there!

Lol, well , I don't know much about Main Line high society, you are the Philly expert!
I'm sure Catholicism was seen as problematic (perhaps it was less of a problem for French-Americans like the Bouviers?, whereas Irish = Catholic = lower class), being Democrat perhaps less so (e.g. the Roosevelts). The main problem, I think, was that they were arrivistes, nouveaux-riches. Remember it takes three generations to breed a gentleman, to wash the dirt off his hands, invest the wealth earned from (gasp!) "trade" (you'd think honest work was no better than drug dealing!) in "respectable things" like stocks, land or real estate and either live as a rentier devoted to public service or pursue a liberal profession.

It must have been hard for Irish Catholics like the Kellys, when Dutch Protestants like the Vanderbilts had problems being accepted by their very own kin in Knickerbocker society.

Quote
Quote
I'm not sure Anastasia Nikolayevna was such a diligent student of Mr. Gilliard that she could have taught anyone French, or even speak it herself.
Well, perhaps. Although she was said to have an authentic sounding French accent. But I was mostly referring to Anastasia's fondness for acting out French plays. Your comment about Princess Grace possibly learning French in such a way reminded me of this, especially given the comparisons we were making between her and Alexandra.

You are right, I also read about that. It seems it was a popular pastime for European royals to act out French plays like Molière's Le bourgeois gentilhomme (!). Typically they preferred the French classic comédies de mœurs , while Shakespeare, Goethe and Schiller were too "brainy" and appealed more to the cultured bourgeoisie.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on May 14, 2014, 01:37:20 PM
[quote author=Превед link=topic=17347.msg535336#msg535336 date=1399926851

On a forum about Russian royals of mainly German descent at a Francophone court, vacationing in Finland, Poland and Denmark, I see it as my duty to help others learn Russian, German, French, Danish, Finnish, Swedish etc. just like I expect them to help me learn Russian through content-based learning. No better way to learn than through a subject one is already passionate about.
[/quote]

I'm sure everyone appreciates that your are passionate about the subject of Russian history as well as the subject of language and etymology. However, I do feel I need to point out the FA's past reminders to posters over the years that English is the language of the Forum regardless of what the Forum is devoted to. It also states in the Rules one of the reasons why:

"With some many people posting now, in order for the search function to work at its best to find information, we will now ask you to use these standard ENGLISH spellings when posting in the forum UNLESS directly quoting a source.  We know that these words can be spelled differently in other languages, but we want the search to return as many results as possible. "

There are log-standing rules regarding language on the Forum that I would ask all participants to abide by. Thank you.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 30, 2014, 12:13:25 PM
Happy news for Albert and Charlene!!.They re expecting their first child !!

http://www.palais.mc/fr/actualites/s-a-s-le-prince-albert-ii/evenement/2014/mai/communique-de-presse-3236.html

Congratulations!!!!
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Grace on May 30, 2014, 12:49:51 PM
That is indeed good news for the couple!  I'm really pleased!

It will especially mean less pressure on Charlene.  Hopefully, all goes well and a healthy child will be born.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lindelle on June 27, 2014, 05:08:54 AM
I agree Grace
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Kimberly on October 07, 2014, 03:49:18 PM
Sorry, cannot do a link at the moment but it is a twin pregnancy.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Kimberly on October 07, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
Here you go;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2783905/Princess-Charlene-Prince-Albert-Monaco-expecting-TWINS-baby-inherit-crown.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2783905/Princess-Charlene-Prince-Albert-Monaco-expecting-TWINS-baby-inherit-crown.html)
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Kimberly on December 10, 2014, 11:59:38 AM
Well, it's being reported that Charlene was safely delivered of a boy and girl this afternoon. They were born by Caesarian Section. Many congrats to them.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: RoyalWatcher on December 10, 2014, 01:09:55 PM
royalcentral.co.uk is reporting the following:

"The twins were delivered via caesarean section are called Prince Jacques Honoré Rainier and Princess Gabriella Thérèse Marie. Though Gabriella is 2 minutes older, her brother Jacques is the new heir of Monaco, as the principality follows the rule of primogeniture."

It goes on and says, "The twins are the first of the Grimaldi line since the 13th century, and are now 2nd and 3rd in line to the throne. Jacque will be given the title of Marquis, as is tradition, and his title is Marquis of Baux. Gabriella is Countess of Carladès."

You can see the entire article here: http://royalcentral.co.uk/foreignroyals/princess-charlene-of-monaco-gives-birth-to-heir-41415
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on December 10, 2014, 01:20:07 PM
Though Gabriella is 2 minutes older, her brother Jacques is the new heir of Monaco, as the principality follows the rule of primogeniture."
....the rule of male / agnatic primogeniture, surely!
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on December 10, 2014, 02:10:07 PM
Их Светлейшие Высочества
Жак-Оноре-Ренье, наследный принц Монако, маркиз де Бо
Габриэлла-Тереза-Мария, принцесса Монако, графиня де Карладез
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Kimberly on December 10, 2014, 04:15:18 PM
Их Светлейшие Высочества
Жак-Оноре-Ренье, наследный принц Монако, маркиз де Бо
Габриэлла-Тереза-Мария, принцесса Монако, графиня де Карладез

Pardon ?
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on December 10, 2014, 04:24:08 PM
Их Светлейшие Высочества
Жак-Оноре-Ренье, наследный принц Монако, маркиз де Бо
Габриэлла-Тереза-Мария, принцесса Монако, графиня де Карладез

Pardon ?

Their Serene Highnesses
Jacques-Honoré-Rainier, Hereditary Prince of Monaco, Marquis des Baux
Gabriella-Thérèse-Marie, Princess of Monaco, Comtesse de Carladès
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Kimberly on December 11, 2014, 02:33:36 AM
Aaaah, thank you.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lucien on December 12, 2014, 03:55:12 AM
From Monaco:

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=10-12-2014%20Monaco

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=11-12-2014%20Monaco
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Maria Sisi on December 12, 2014, 09:08:30 AM
How exciting, congratulations to Charlene and Albert!!

Are there any special meanings behind the names (besides the Rainier part)?
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on December 12, 2014, 10:25:06 AM
Are there any special meanings behind the names (besides the Rainier part)?

Jacques is probably in honour of Jacques I of Monaco, the first Prince of the Goyon-Matignon dynasty (which ruled before the current Polignac dynasty). His son was Honoré III, so there have been several (five actually) princes called Honoré. And of course Grace Kelly's father John Kelly was nicknamed Jack!

Gabriella is perhaps in honour of Duchesse Gabrielle de Polignac, famous friend of Marie-Antoinette and a direct ancestress of Prince Albert II through his Polignac paternal grandfather.

Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Maria Sisi on December 12, 2014, 05:20:23 PM
So there's quite a connection to all the names, interesting.

Stephanie is currently the Countess of Polignac I believe so perhaps it is possible for what you said

Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on December 13, 2014, 04:50:28 PM
Stephanie is currently the Countess of Polignac I believe so perhaps it is possible for what you said

Well, unlike her nephew and niece, who are styled Jacques, marquis des Baux and Gabriella, comtesse de Carladès, indicating holders of unique (courtesy) titles (the titles are really held by their father), Stéphanie is not the Countess of Polignac, as she is just an agnatic descendant of a junior line of the Dukes of Polignac. Her 3 x great grandfather, comte Melchior de Polignac, was a younger son of the 1st Duke of Polignac, the husband of Marie-Antoinette's favourite. He was an émigré who died in Russia. (Catherine the Great granted him an estate in Ukraina.)

If she hadn't already been princesse Stéphanie de Monaco (and not Stéphanie, princesse de Monaco), comtesse de Polignac, she would have been comtesse Stéphanie de Polignac, according to the French custom of déclinaison des tîtres.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on December 13, 2014, 05:46:13 PM
Interestingly the twins are descendants of King Edward IV of England on both Albert's and Charlene's side! See http://geneanjou.blog.lemonde.fr/2014/12/10/double-naissance-princiere-a-monaco/ (http://geneanjou.blog.lemonde.fr/2014/12/10/double-naissance-princiere-a-monaco/) I wonder if that also means that the little Marquis des Baux is a descendant of the medieval Seigneurs des Baux on both sides too? Another interesting titbit for Romanov fans: The last of the original, medieval House of Baux was Alix, Dame des Baux (1367 -1426), the last great aristocrat / royal to be called Alix before Alix of Hesse.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Kimberly on December 23, 2014, 12:12:38 PM
Nice little bubbas here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2885151/Prince-Albert-Princess-Charlene-release-adorable-pictures-twins-Jacques-Gabriella.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2885151/Prince-Albert-Princess-Charlene-release-adorable-pictures-twins-Jacques-Gabriella.html)
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: AnnaLivadia on May 25, 2015, 10:50:36 AM
The twins were christened on May 10 ( on their five months 's day  ) . They are adorable !
Title: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Lucien on July 29, 2015, 02:30:58 AM
Pierre Casiraghi,son of HRH Princess Caroline,married Beatrice Borromeo in a civil ceremony last saturday.
The religious wedding will be this saturday,august 1st.
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: Превед on November 21, 2015, 11:26:21 AM
Wow, Princesse Antoinette, Baroness de Massy's granddaughter Mélanie Antoinette's full surname is Costello de Massy de Lusignan, indicating some connection with the medieval Lusignan Kings of Jerusalem and Cyprus! Turns out she is only named after her British-born ballet dancer and choreographer father Nikolai Vladimir Costello's (of Russophile Irish heritage?) nom de scène!
Title: Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco Part II
Post by: José on January 22, 2016, 12:05:19 PM
Are there any special meanings behind the names (besides the Rainier part)?

Jacques is probably in honour of Jacques I of Monaco, the first Prince of the Goyon-Matignon dynasty (which ruled before the current Polignac dynasty). His son was Honoré III, so there have been several (five actually) princes called Honoré. And of course Grace Kelly's father John Kelly was nicknamed Jack!

Gabriella is perhaps in honour of Duchesse Gabrielle de Polignac, famous friend of Marie-Antoinette and a direct ancestress of Prince Albert II through his Polignac paternal grandfather.




According to Diana Nigra, Gabriella's god-mother, Thérèse comes after her grand-mother Pss Thérèse de Polignac (1916-2014) oo Pedro de Assis Mascarenhas de Barros.

Im an interview, she said that Pr.Albert was extremely fond of his cousin Pss Thérèse and decided to pay hommage to her by naming his daughter.

Relationship between Pss Thérèse and Pr. Albert II

http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=pt;spouse=on;m=RL;i=4383430;l1=3;i1=4383375;l2=4;i2=3644876