Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Anastasia Nicholaievna => Topic started by: ANR13 on February 08, 2013, 01:15:40 PM

Title: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: ANR13 on February 08, 2013, 01:15:40 PM
I apologise in advance if this has already appeared on the forum somewhere else, but I could not find it.

My question is this: Prior to the assassination, would the topic of Anastasia's future suitors have been considered by her parents/family, and if so, who would have been eligible?
I have heard of the other sisters having 'admirers' (particularly Maria) but as for Anastasia, did she have any love life at all to speak of, or was she still too young?

Thank you,

C
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: edubs31 on February 08, 2013, 01:37:49 PM
Quote
I have heard of the other sisters having 'admirers' (particularly Maria) but as for Anastasia, did she have any love life at all to speak of, or was she still too young?

I believe she was too young to have been given any serious consideration. Remember the family was swept up by the Revolution in March of 1917, at which point Anastasia was not yet sixteen. Maria had her admirers and Olga had her potential suitors but Tatiana, four years Anastasia's senior, and among the most beautiful young ladies in Russia was still very much available. It's unlikely that AN would have been sought or discussed before TN.

The war itself probably place the marriage question on hold for the most part. We hear much more about potential suitors for Olga prior to the outbreak of WWI in the summer of 1914 than after.

Once the Tsar abdicated and the family was essentially stripped of their royal titles (albeit not their royal lineage) their prestige would naturally have diminished some. In Olga's case she would have remained attractive to suitors if for no other reason than huge fortune she was set to inherit from her grandfather, Alexander III.

Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: ANR13 on February 08, 2013, 01:53:05 PM
Thank you very much for the reply!

It is difficult to believe that TN was still 'on the market' prior to the revolution, taking into consideration her beauty. Was Alexander III's fortune only to be inherited by the eldest girl, or would there have been some wealth awaiting the other girls as well? Adding a small fortune into the equation would certainly have made TN all the more admirable.

Back to AN, and I wonder if there was any mention (in letters, diaries, etc) of Anastasia having a 'crush' on any of the guards/soldiers that she came into contact with before the abdication? I recall once reading about there being a soldier that she liked, but I am not sure if that is correct.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Sarushka on February 08, 2013, 08:27:22 PM
I believe she was too young to have been given any serious consideration.

That's probably true, but it's hard to imagine that royals with sons of a compatible age didn't at least entertain a passing thought of a match with Anastasia prior to the revolution.


Back to AN, and I wonder if there was any mention (in letters, diaries, etc) of Anastasia having a 'crush' on any of the guards/soldiers that she came into contact with before the abdication? I recall once reading about there being a soldier that she liked, but I am not sure if that is correct.

I'm not aware of any. Holly would know.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: ANR13 on February 09, 2013, 04:11:49 PM
]

I'm not aware of any. Holly would know.

Thank you very much for your reply! I shall maybe try to contact Holly directly, I think I have seen her around the forum before :)
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Holly on September 07, 2013, 02:26:30 AM
Browsing and just now saw this. Thought I would reply although it's been quite a while.

I have never read anything that ever came close to suggesting a crush, or even a favorite officer/guard/etc. To my knowledge, there is no record of a personal favorite male of any sort when it comes to Anastasia. The only thing I've ever seen that remotely resembled a 'crush' was either a diary or letter (thought it was in A Lifelong Passion but can't find it now) which simply stated that a very young Anastasia was pleased with a cousin and kept calling him a 'nice little boy' and gave him flowers. She was a child at the time so I don't think that's what you're looking for. This isn't to say she didn't have her crushes/favorites but there is definitely no record of any. She was definitely charming and outgoing when it came to being social. Unfortunately there are no diaries of Anastasia's.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 21, 2013, 02:07:47 PM
It seems that through marriage, Olga and Tatiana definitely had the potential to become queens of foreign countries, but I wonder if the same would have happened with the two younger girls. While today we find them to be rather beautiful, neither of them seemed to have attracted much attention in that way at the time and I wonder if maybe they would have ended up with some other Russian nobles.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 23, 2013, 09:19:51 PM
Quote
Quoted from Holly: The only thing I've ever seen that remotely resembled a 'crush' was either a diary or letter (thought it was in A Lifelong Passion but can't find it now) which simply stated that a very young Anastasia was pleased with a cousin and kept calling him a 'nice little boy' and gave him flowers.

I found it from your collection of Anastasia's anecdotes in your Anastasia website.  That 'crush' was Igor, according to the poet GD Konstantin. Possibly it was because he found the little boy very cute ^^

Quote
Quoted from Kassy:...neither of them seemed to have attracted much attention in that way at the time and I wonder if maybe they would have ended up with some other Russian nobles.
More possibly it's because they were of unmarriageable age that time. Perhaps if they were kept alive (or had the war not happened), they'd eventually be noticed, and many princes' names would be tied to their names: dukes or minor princes of Scandinavian countries more likely, too. LOL, I like to think about this <3
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 23, 2013, 09:58:23 PM
Sounds probable! I read once that when Olga and Karol of Romania didn't fall in love, he later visited Russia and became taken with Maria and even asked Nicholas about having her hand, but as she was still so young, the Tsar simply laughed it off. Is there any truth to this?
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Sarushka on October 23, 2013, 10:09:23 PM
Sounds probable! I read once that when Olga and Karol of Romania didn't fall in love, he later visited Russia and became taken with Maria and even asked Nicholas about having her hand, but as she was still so young, the Tsar simply laughed it off. Is there any truth to this?

Yes. I also don't recall the source offhand, but I'm fairly certain that's a true anecdote.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: edubs31 on October 23, 2013, 10:32:48 PM
Sounds probable! I read once that when Olga and Karol of Romania didn't fall in love, he later visited Russia and became taken with Maria and even asked Nicholas about having her hand, but as she was still so young, the Tsar simply laughed it off. Is there any truth to this?

Yes. I also don't recall the source offhand, but I'm fairly certain that's a true anecdote.

Wasn't this the time Nicholas said "But Marie's still/just a school girl".
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 24, 2013, 03:49:02 AM
Sounds probable! I read once that when Olga and Karol of Romania didn't fall in love, he later visited Russia and became taken with Maria and even asked Nicholas about having her hand, but as she was still so young, the Tsar simply laughed it off. Is there any truth to this?

Yes. I also don't recall the source offhand, but I'm fairly certain that's a true anecdote.

Wasn't this the time Nicholas said "But Marie's still/just a school girl".

That's right Edubs - thank God Nicholas didn't allow it! I even wonder if they told Marie about that and she herself declared she's still a schoolgirl, and Nicholas said that to him. Or is it purely Nicholas' decision? The latter may be more true, but we won't know what really happened that time :'(

Btw, it can be found in Anna Vyrubova's memoirs. I can't remember what chapter but it took place during the war.

Ah, Anastasia... if only she lived longer I would have seen her name paired with the later Leopold III of Belgium, prince born on November 3, 1901 - a few months after she was born but it's just a little age gap. Alexandra would have totally approved of that idea!

Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 24, 2013, 07:42:47 PM

Ah, Anastasia... if only she lived longer I would have seen her name paired with the later Leopold III of Belgium, prince born on November 3, 1901 - a few months after she was born but it's just a little age gap. Alexandra would have totally approved of that idea!



Now *that* is interesting to think about. If that had happened... Think of how it would have changed so many lives. Astrid might not have had her fatal car accident for one. It's amazing how one simple difference could change so many futures.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 25, 2013, 01:25:51 AM
Quote
Astrid might not have had her fatal car accident for one.
I fancy finding her in the Russian throne as Alexei's empress!

Quote
It's amazing how one simple difference could change so many futures.
Indeed, the world could have been so much different from what it is now. It's sad we are only left to think of those as "what ifs" and just that :'(   Anyway, for everything there is a reason.


Btw, the specific chapter of Anna Vyrubova's memoirs (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/russiancourt2006/) where I found Carol of Romania's proposal to Marie is Imperial Children.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 25, 2013, 12:14:58 PM
That might be interesting, but when I think of Alexei's future I always see Princess Ileana with him... :3
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 25, 2013, 07:38:29 PM

It's always been Ileana because of that Romanian trip in 1914 - I wonder if you know Elizabeth of Greece, too? The sister of Marina, Duchess of Kent. There is an anecdote of Alexei saying 'I love you' to her in his anecdotes thread ^^ Alexei is the luckiest among the siblings, actually. There were more princesses who were the same age as he was, therefore, he could have had more options had they lived, compared to the princes available for OTMA.

Quote
Quoted from Holly: The only thing I've ever seen that remotely resembled a 'crush' was either a diary or letter (thought it was in A Lifelong Passion but can't find it now) which simply stated that a very young Anastasia was pleased with a cousin and kept calling him a 'nice little boy' and gave him flowers.

I found it from your collection of Anastasia's anecdotes in your Anastasia website.  That 'crush' was Igor, according to the poet GD Konstantin. Possibly it was because he found the little boy very cute ^^

Oh I searched for who that Igor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Igor_Constantinovich_of_Russia) is - he was born on 1894. Or was it not the Igor referred to by Konstantin Konstantinovich? He surely said they 'brought their Igor' with them in that diary entry. Surely he meant it was his son.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 26, 2013, 02:50:03 AM

It's always been Ileana because of that Romanian trip in 1914 - I wonder if you know Elizabeth of Greece, too? The sister of Marina, Duchess of Kent. There is an anecdote of Alexei saying 'I love you' to her in his anecdotes thread ^^ Alexei is the luckiest among the siblings, actually. There were more princesses who were the same age as he was, therefore, he could have had more options had they lived, compared to the princes available for OTMA.

I know a little bit of the Greek royals, but not as much as I do of the Romanovs and such. I think I might have to look into them soon. It's just had to focus on more than one thing at a time for me and right now I'm so consumed with collecting OTMA information.

I can imagine that anecdote is very sweet. I always hear about the girls and their crushes but I never really gave thought to Alexei and the girls that might have caught his eye!
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 26, 2013, 03:38:45 AM

Quote
I can imagine that anecdote is very sweet. I always hear about the girls and their crushes but I never really gave thought to Alexei and the girls that might have caught his eye!
Indeed, much were just about OTMA because there were available letters, diary entries, etc. which fuel the interest for that. On the other hand, Alexei has only a few of those, and given his short and sheltered life, his exposure to seeing girls was limited so he didn't mention or barely touched that subject on his letters... There might be more info about that in his subforum ^^
Yes, for me it's sweet, and it happened when both were 3 years old ~ it wasn't surely serious but it's funny that he already had an eye on girls at that age : ))

It's okay if you can't search for her yet ^^ Anyway,  it's improper to discuss about her and Alexei here because this is Anastasia's thread... My apologies, I was the one who started talking about this topic :S

I understand what you feel about the "OTMA info craze" which I had in extreme severity in 2008-09.  That's the time I also didn't want to share my time for researching about them with other royals XD I still have it but in severity this time. LOL, so let's go ahead and work hard!  (^o^)  I'm researching for 'unknown' memoirs in Russian about them right now and I won't forget to share them with all of you!

Ah... This is KR's diary entry regarding Igor and Anastasia:
... Our little ones were invited to tea with the Emperor's children. Igor went, too. Little Anastasia was thrilled with him, kept calling him a nice little boy and gave him flowers when they said goodbye..."

Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 26, 2013, 08:24:38 PM
Please do share any information you find. I'd love to read any and all of it as I am quite new when it comes to reading actual anecdotes and memoirs about the children, and it makes me very excited to think that there are still more out there that might not have been released just yet.

Anyway, as far as Anastasia and Igor go, I think that might have been sweet. It's so cute the way she was already acting around him; giving him flowers and such! Whose son was he, again?
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 27, 2013, 02:53:27 AM
Yes, Kassy, I would share if I find one! ^^
Igor is the poet KR’s son (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duke_Konstantin_Konstantinovich_of_Russia).
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 27, 2013, 03:31:04 AM
So sad reading about him... he died in that mine shaft with his brother and Grand Duchess Ella... Ironic how Nastya had a fancy for them and they both end up perishing at the hands of the Bolsheviks, and so close to each other too.

All that considered it makes me yet again wonder 'what if?' maybe something would have happened for them...

But on a slightly more cheerful note - he was awfully handsome! :)
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 28, 2013, 12:39:34 AM
Yes, it is too sad that they have died the same time - their lives cut so short in a wink :'(
Hahaha, indeed! He and Anastasia would have made a beautiful couple ~ but I haven't seen photos of him from 1910-1918.

It might not hurt if I post photos of Elisabeth of Greece here, right?
Elisabeth (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Princess_Elizabeth,_Countess_of_Toerring-Jettenbach)
Elisabeth is the girl at the back of Nicholas (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/The_imperial_family_among_them_Grand_Duke_Boris_Vladimirovich_of_Russia.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 28, 2013, 01:02:12 AM
Such an adorable little girl :D

And just for you (and to help stay on topic) - I think I've found some older photos of Igor

It apears that this one is circa 1914-1915

(http://nd06.jxs.cz/533/329/cbbfa7c159_95696899_o2.jpg)

And I imagine these are of him older as well

(http://nd06.jxs.cz/326/969/c8a84c2517_95696904_o2.jpg)

(http://nd06.jxs.cz/935/318/8a9b79c0ca_95696905_o2.jpg)
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 29, 2013, 02:32:19 AM
From the bottom of my soul, Kassy, I thank you for those pictures immensely! He really looks handsome and maybe this is caused by my Igor-Anastasia craze, I think they resembl each other a bit ^^

Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on October 29, 2013, 03:07:28 AM
You are more than welcome Shandroise : ) I suppose it seems silly to be so excited over the idea of the two of them together, but I can never stop myself from thinking of all the "what-ifs" of the girls. And especially with Anastasia because we never saw many mentions of the boys she was interested in. So I'm sort of grasping onto this straw... But can you blame me?
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kalafrana on October 29, 2013, 04:30:24 AM
The third photograph is obviously later than the first two, as Igor is wearing decorations and an ADC's aiguillettes.

Ann
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on October 30, 2013, 04:36:11 AM
You are more than welcome Shandroise : ) I suppose it seems silly to be so excited over the idea of the two of them together, but I can never stop myself from thinking of all the "what-ifs" of the girls. And especially with Anastasia because we never saw many mentions of the boys she was interested in. So I'm sort of grasping onto this straw... But can you blame me?
I think I know what you are feeling. We feel this way because we are dying hard to know if Anastasia has had even one crush or admired boy in her whole life, and here Igor is. Although it's just a faint possibility of 'being a crush', at least we know someone who Anastasia saw as very cute!
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on November 07, 2013, 03:45:23 AM
Marriage talks for Anastasia took place!

"...'None of my daughters shall marry German princes', she (Alix) said on one occasion. It was suggested that Anastasie's future home might be England, and the Empress welcomed the idea. An English marriage would have been very near her heart."
(from Lili Dehn's "The Real Tsaritsa")

It cannot be figured whether that topic had been discussed by the family (only) or by ministers.
(It's also possible there  had been such talks for Maria.)
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on November 07, 2013, 02:26:57 PM
There were a few different places that the girls could have gone to, but reading up on their marriage proposals makes me think of Olga and her wanting to stay in Russia. Can you imagine being in their position and dealing with the possibility of being sent away to some place as far as the UK? I wonder how Anastasia would have felt about it.

I also find it curious that Alix wouldn't let her daughters marry German princes.. Because of the tensions between Russia and Germany, perhaps? Any idea when she said this?
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on November 07, 2013, 08:56:47 PM

 Although Alix wanted her daughters to marry for love, it seems she wasn't open to marrying them off to men who were not of noble birth, so, (had they lived) it's possible  that whether she and her daughters like it or not, OTMA would have to marry a prince or anyone noble, and necessarily would have to live wherever that man would be. Their ranks truly makes it complicated for them, and it would be likely any (or all of them) would follow the example of their Aunt Olga and lose their title (which is anyway not a big deal for them). Having said that, I think Anastasia would steadfastly oppose that idea of being married to an English (nobleman), and would do everything to avoid suffering a fate of being stuck in a 'marriage of convenience' plus living thousands of miles away from home ~

You are right - Alix didn't want it because of those tensions ^^ According to the book, she said that at the time the family were already imprisoned in Tsarskoe Selo.

Btw...

I found one of Vera Konstantinovna's memoirs but it's entirely about her family. I found curious similarities between Igor and Anastasia.
Vera described Igor as 'always lively, funny, witty and ready for mischief.' She also said he nearly drowned (in the Masurian marshes) during WWI; Anastasia also almost got drowned (can't recall where) before, but it happened when she was younger. XD, what a coincidence!
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Rodney_G. on November 08, 2013, 01:40:05 PM
Marriage talks for Anastasia took place!

"...'None of my daughters shall marry German princes', she (Alix) said on one occasion. It was suggested that Anastasie's future home might be England, and the Empress welcomed the idea. An English marriage would have been very near her heart."
(from Lili Dehn's "The Real Tsaritsa")

It cannot be figured whether that topic had been discussed by the family (only) or by ministers.
(It's also possible there  had been such talks for Maria.)

As to Alexandra's attitudes towards her daughters not marrrying German princes: It should be remembered that Alexandra herself was German born, that is Hessian, one of the German states prior to the unification of Germany under Prussian dominance in 1871. She lived in Hesse til her marriage in 1894 to Nicholas. She loved her home state Hesse-Darmstadt  all her life and had fond feelings towards much of Germany. But the exception was Prussia. Prussia had defeated her native land in 1866 in the Franco-Prussian War. Though this was before she was born, she was very aware of how her mother and father , Princess Alice and Grand Duke Ludwig, had suffered along with their subjects, fellow Hessians. Not all German states were the same , and from that point forward, possibly from earlier, Alexandra was antipathetic to Prussia and its militarism. When war came with Germany in 1914, any thoughts of  marriage of any of her daughters to German princes were ended, at least for the foreseeable future. I don't know what Alexandra's attitudes were towards other specific principalities , but it's unlikely they were very positive insofar as they might be asociated with Prussia.

Moreover, her mother-in-law, Dowager Empress Marie,as a former Danish princess, also felt similarlly. Possibly even more anti-Prussian, if not entirely anti_German  regarding its constituent states and pricipalities.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on November 08, 2013, 06:01:58 PM
And even more so, Alix was closer to her English relatives than she was with her German ones, wasn't she?
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: rosieposie on November 09, 2013, 05:23:05 AM
Yes,  Alix was close to her English relatives because she was raised during a period in England with Queen Victoria after the death of both her father and mother.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kalafrana on November 09, 2013, 07:31:39 AM
Rodney

I think you make an important point in distinguishing between Prussia and Germany. In any case, Alexandra  wasn't all that fond of Wilhelm,  so that would probably rule out any of his sons as marriage candidates (in any case three of them were married well before 1914, Oskar and Adalbert both married as the war broke out, leaving only Joachim). Alexandra seems to have got on well enough with Heinrich of Prussia (I know of nothing to suggest any tensions, and he was someone whom everyone seems to have liked). However, his sons were the Grand Duchesses first cousins, which would rule them out.

Ann
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Превед on November 09, 2013, 09:41:22 AM
It's ironic that the only two possibly eligible dynasties would be those claiming a Slavic origin and arch-reactionary to boot:

The only reigning dynasty in the German Empire overtly critical of Prussian hegemony being petty Reuß Senior Line (untill the death of Heinrich "The Naughty" XXII in 1902), which probably was to insignificant to offer a match for a Russian Emperor's daughter - and both Mecklenburgs. After all, untill 1904 the reigning Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz was a born British Princess and in 1898 NII's cousin, the second in line heir, married a Princess of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

LOL, imagine if Anastasia Nikolayevna had married Prince Olav of Norway! So impossible on many levels....
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: grandduchessella on November 09, 2013, 11:25:41 AM
Not to mention that Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna Sr was a Schwerin Duchess. (She was also connected to the Reuss line as her mother was a Princess of Reuss)

I don't see why Anastasia couldn't have married Olav. There was a pre-requisite that she change her religion to be Queen. Most Grand Duchesses married outside of the country---Xenia being a rare exception. If she didn't want to marry outside of Russia she was basically left with few options. There were some Grand Dukes around who weren't first cousins or she could've gone the Irina/Tatiana route and married an acceptable Russian Prince. The only Slavic options outside of Russia were Serbia, Greece (closely related to the Romanovs but not first-cousin close), Romania and Montenegro. Between the first cousin prohibition, the equal marriage question and the lack of Slavic options, most Grand Duchesses had to look to foreign, non-Slavic countries. I think Olav maybe would've been an interesting match for her--even if she was an 'older woman'. :)

Of the Greeks, there was the future George II (10 years older than her and usually linked to one of her older sisters), the future Alexander I and the future Paul I (all 3 in the reigning line). Considering that George I & Olga had so many sons, there weren't many Greek princes in that next generation--Constantine had the 3 above-mentioned but George's son wasn't age-eligible for the Grand Duchesses, Nicholas (himself married to a Russian Grand Duchess) only had daughters and Andrew's only son wasn't born until 1922 (and made a pretty good match himself). Their daughters married Grand Dukes but only Alexandra produced a son--Dmitri.

Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Превед on November 09, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
and in 1898 NII's cousin, the second in line heir, married a Princess of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.
Uff da, that was meant to be NII's Danish cousin (Christian X)...

Not to mention that Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna Sr was a Schwerin Duchess. (She was also connected to the Reuss line as her mother was a Princess of Reuss)
Speaking of Slavic connections, it's interesting that Maria Pavlovna's grandfather Prince Heinrich LXIII. Reuß zu Köstritz owned the Saxon estates Leichnam / Lichań and Klix / Klukš, two villages wich both were Sorbian-speaking in the 19th century. (Sorbian is still spoken in the region today, but not in those two villages.)

I don't see why Anastasia couldn't have married Olav. There was a pre-requisite that she change her religion to be Queen.

Yes, but I do think such a marriage would have been difficult if not impossible in reality. Before 1914, when the parties anyway were too young, the objection would not so much have been the fear of Russian expansion (always a threat in Norway's northernmost province, Finnmark, though untill WW2 Finnish expansion and colonisation was more feared), but rather fear of reactionary Russian political influence. (The Russian Emperor being viewed as a tyrant, not at least because of his policy in Finland.) During WW1 a Russian marriage would have added an interesting twist to the conflict between pro-British King Haakon VII and his slightly pro-German government in officially neutral Norway. Of course, after 1917 / 1918 a Romanov queen would have caused political tension and insurmountable diplomatic difficulties. (Well, perhaps not. If Queen Maud could be ill or absent from most state functions, so could a Romanov first lady.) Even though after the 1920 Treaty of Tartu, when Russia ceded the Pechenga Corridor (by the Barents Sea) to Finland, Norway and Russia did not share a border anymore. (Not untill WW2).

BTW the Soviet ambassador to Norway 1923-1930, Alexandra Kollontai, was the world's first accredited female ambassador. Perhaps a good match for tomboy Anastasia Nikolayevna!
Perhaps Queen Maud would have had sentimental reasons to support such a marriage, considering that she had been in love with Grand Duke George Alexandrovich in her youth.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: edubs31 on November 09, 2013, 05:08:19 PM
Quote
BTW the Soviet ambassador to Norway 1923-1930, Alexandra Kollontai, was the world's first accredited female ambassador. Perhaps a good match for tomboy Anastasia Nikolayevna!

Your otherwise interesting post lost me here. Care to explain?
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Превед on November 09, 2013, 05:11:21 PM
Quote
BTW the Soviet ambassador to Norway 1923-1930, Alexandra Kollontai, was the world's first accredited female ambassador. Perhaps a good match for tomboy Anastasia Nikolayevna!

Your otherwise interesting post lost me here. Care to explain?

LOL, yes. If Anastasia Nikolayevna were Crown Princess or Queen of Norway she would be faced with Alexandra Kollontai (a very interesting woman!) as Soviet ambassador to Norway. Considering that Kollontai was Soviet ambassador to Sweden 1930–1945 she may have had dealings with Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna the Younger.

Even though after the 1920 Treaty of Tartu, when Russia ceded the Pechenga Corridor (by the Barents Sea) to Finland, Norway and Russia did not share a border anymore. (Not untill WW2).

Pechenga / Petsamo is BTW the port where Crown Princess Märtha and her children boarded USS American Legion, exchanging their Swedish exile, which became impossible when Gustaf V suggested the collaborist idea to put the infant Prince Harald as a German puppet king on the Norwegian throne, for the US, on President Roosevelt's invitation. Tor Bomann-Larsen's last volume of his Haakon & Maud biography stresses how resolutely Crown Princess Märtha resisted this idea, even though she was far away from her husband and father-in-law, surrounded by her Swedish family, who put pressure on her.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Превед on November 09, 2013, 05:47:43 PM
Speaking of "Greater Finland" and what-if revisionism: Imagine if Olga Nikolayevna had married Wolfgang of Hesse-Cassel (both born in 1896), son and Finnish heir of the designated king Fredrik Kaarle I and they had become crown prince and princess of Finland! I can imagine the intellectual Olga striking up an interesting relationship with famous Russo-Finland Swedish poetess Edith Södergran (whose poetry features an ideal world straight out of Virolahti Bay), even though the poor Nietzsche fan had written in her St. Petersburg school days that "she would not give up the struggle untill the blood of the Romanovs flowed in the streets". When it eventually did, her family lost their considerable fortune, which was invested in Ukrainian railways stocks.

Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: edubs31 on November 09, 2013, 10:09:13 PM
even though the poor Nietzsche fan had written in her St. Petersburg school days that "she would not give up the struggle untill the blood of the Romanovs flowed in the streets". When it eventually did, her family lost their considerable fortune, which was invested in Ukrainian railways stocks.

Funny how that works...idealistic? Just wait a while.

Thanks for clearing up the Anastasia meets Kollantai descrepancy. I know a good deal about Alexandra having written about her quite a bit recently.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kassafrass on November 09, 2013, 11:04:02 PM
Some might call that karma, hehe
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Olga Maria on November 10, 2013, 01:40:01 AM
Perhaps Queen Maud would have had sentimental reasons to support such a marriage, considering that she had been in love with Grand Duke George Alexandrovich in her youth.

It also could be noted that Maud is cousin to both Nicholas & Alexandra : )


Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: miki_nastya on August 12, 2014, 03:18:13 PM
Are there any pictures of Anastasia with Igor?
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Maria Sisi on August 12, 2014, 04:39:21 PM
What was the political relations with Bulgaria? Tsar Boris III was born in 1894 and only 7 years older. Or even the younger brother Prince Kiril, born in 1895. Would they have been considered possible?

Then there are as grandduchessella suggested Queen Olga's grandchildren from Constantine, Alexander (b. 1893) and Paul (b. 1901, six months younger then Anastasia). I'm sure all parties involved would have loved a possible match. I feel like marriage to one of the Greeks, including the eldest George, would have been perfect for the girls. They shared the same religion and then there's the really good family history.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kalafrana on August 13, 2014, 03:32:54 AM
Bulgaria was a German ally in WW1, though Russia and Bulgaria were traditionally friendly.

I think Boris would have been a good match for Olga - they were both kind and serious-minded. Krill was something of a playboy and never married.

Ann
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: GDSophie on January 13, 2018, 11:37:20 AM
I know this thread is old but have we checked to see if any other royal couple considered Anastasia as a bride for one of their sons because:

If one is to believe all that one hears, Queen Alexandrine would be most happy if circumstances proved favourable to an alliance between her eldest son, the present Crown Prince of Denmark, and one of the younger daughters of her cousin the Tsar. Such an alliance would bring to her house a princess who, of all those whom her boy could marry, would be the one that Denmark would acclaim with the greatest joy.

The Royal Marriage Market of Europe, 1915.

If this is true then we know that Alexandrine had Maria and Anastasia down as suitable and likely spouses for her son.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Превед on January 14, 2018, 07:36:47 AM
Such an alliance would bring to her house a princess who, of all those whom her boy could marry, would be the one that Denmark would acclaim with the greatest joy.
The Royal Marriage Market of Europe, 1915.

Princess Radziwill apparently knew nothing about the rapid progress of democratisation in Denmark, from Christian IX's acceptance of parliamentary government (instead of royally appointed cabinets) in 1901 (Systemskiftet - the Change of System) to Christian X's failure to appoint a lasting extra-parliamentary cabinet that would work aggressively towards incorporating Flensburg into Denmark (Påskekrisen - the Easter Crisis) in 1920. In such an atmosphere the crown prince's marriage to a daughter of Europe's most vilified autocrat would not be acclaimed with great joy, at least not by the urban working class and rural crofters - groups which in this period were rather anti-monarchical, but which the Danish monarchy later were able to ingratiate itself with and become popular with.

Of course Maria or Anastasia had the following arguments in favour of themselves:
- Granddaughters of Denmark's great pride, Maria Fyodorovna.
- Representatives of a great anti-German power that could secure a substantial chunk of or all of South Jutland returning to Denmark.

But their father's bloody reputation probably outshone these arguments.

It should be noted that Queen Alexandrine, although born to a Russian mother and from one of Germany's most reactionary, backwards and feudal monarchies, integrated herself very well in the rather different Danish political reality, both ideologically and nationally.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kalafrana on January 15, 2018, 02:27:08 AM
I'm not going to take issue with those points, but how well would a marriage between Frederik and either Marie or Anastasia have worked on a personal level?

I don't know a great deal about Frederik, except that he was a fine figure of a man (6ft 3 and approaching rugby player build), keen on conducting and had numerous tattoos.

Ann
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Превед on January 15, 2018, 08:52:44 AM
I'm not going to take issue with those points, but how well would a marriage between Frederik and either Marie or Anastasia have worked on a personal level?

I don't know a great deal about Frederik, except that he was a fine figure of a man (6ft 3 and approaching rugby player build), keen on conducting and had numerous tattoos.

Apparantly he was a warm, fun-loving man, but content with a simple, happy home life and not desiring to play any part in big affairs. Queen Ingrid was the more reserved strategist and "brain" of the family. Frederik IX personified the jolly gay but fundamentally decent Denmark of the 1950s and the liberated 1960s very well. I think Maria and Anastasia would have found a kindred soul in him, whereas Olga and Tatiania would have longed for more serious-minded stimulation. Though opposites attract, as evidenced by his marriage to Ingrid.

It should also be noted that allegedly the home life of Christian X and Alexandrine ressembled that of his aunt and uncle Maria Fyodorovna and Alexander III: The father had terrible rages that made the whole family tip-toe around the home autocrat. The stiff,  uptight and uncultured Christian X did not suffer from alcoholism, but did also not have Alexander III's bear-like, loving informality, but the mood in the family is said to have been stiff and repressed, something which gave Frederik IX a desire to build quite another type of loving and affectionate home life.

Christian X and his brother Haakon VII did share the same staunch moral fibre, but Haakon had early gone into the navy and learned tolerance, humour and a liberal outlook on things from his fellow sailors, instructors and their families. Christian had stayed at home and been shaped by the arch-conservative and provincial officer corps of the Danish army. By choosing (against his father's wishes) to become a naval officer instead of an army officer, Frederik IX openly rejected his father's ways.
Title: Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
Post by: Kalafrana on January 15, 2018, 09:51:34 AM
I do remember a nice story about Frederik from a policeman who accompanied George VI and Winston Churchill on an official visit to Denmark soon after Frederik's accession. The unpretentious monarch dropped by as King George's valet was busy pressing the royal trousers, and, noticing the tattoos on his arms, rolled up his sleeves to show his own, adding, 'And I've some nice ones on my chest as well'.

Ann