Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Russian History => Imperial Russian Antiques => Topic started by: tzolper on May 09, 2013, 06:16:33 AM

Title: cigarette case
Post by: tzolper on May 09, 2013, 06:16:33 AM
(https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10200472521794151.1073741826.1190275651&type=3)

I wonder if anyone can identify any of the monograms or Imperial Russian Navy insignia or heralds or even names on this cigarette case? It was a keepsake of my great grandmother who spent time in Russia 1902 to 1906. Don't laugh but the family story is either her sister Alberta aks Bertina or she had a relationship with a grand duke. I dismiss that out of hand, of course, but I am trying to research whether perhaps they met with junior naval officers who had some nobility. Venceslas is one of the names on the case, and Peter and others I can't make out. Thanks for any help.

Tom
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Forum Admin on May 09, 2013, 09:31:01 AM
Hi Tom,

Yes, I can help, as well as numerous other users. Please post a link to good quality photos of the case and let us have a look.

Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: tzolper on May 10, 2013, 01:22:28 PM
Sorry - having trouble uploading photos. Here's another try:

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a623/tzolper/943034_10200472523594196_1023075549_n1_zpsab4babc3.jpg)
 
Will post one at a time, three total.

Tom
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: tzolper on May 10, 2013, 01:26:45 PM
 (http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a623/tzolper/936489_10200472545354740_1949054403_n1_zps1f44a94e.jpg)
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Forum Admin on May 10, 2013, 01:29:41 PM
No Imperial Connection at all, nothing of a Grand Duke.  Just the Imperial Navy and some minor officers emblems as far as I can see.  Some of the military experts here can probably give you a better idea of exactly what rank and regiment.  I can tell you without doubt nothing on the case suggests any Imperial connections, however.

Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: tzolper on May 10, 2013, 01:35:32 PM
 Ok Thanks. I knew it was junior officers. Would it be unusual for them to have monograms, however (top left and right of front case)?

Tom
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: tzolper on May 10, 2013, 01:59:53 PM
 I guess I'll stop uploading the other emblem on the case. It's so difficult uploading photos here and even the two photos uploaded so far seemed sufficient evidence of no Imperial connection, according to Velikye.

But if someone at least could identify the Imperial Navy division on the upper right corner of the backside of the case (with the whistle) that would be really helpful.

Thanks all.
Tom
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Forum Admin on May 10, 2013, 02:13:43 PM
It was quite common for people to put their initials on cigarette cases in Russia, like that.  These type cases were momentos of friends..  Your photos take so long to upload because they are very large, you should re size them before uploading to photobucket.
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on May 10, 2013, 02:45:08 PM

But if someone at least could identify the Imperial Navy division on the upper right corner of the backside of the case (with the whistle) that would be really helpful.

Thanks all.
Tom

This is the coat of arms of the Sea Cadet Corps. So, it's likely the initials of graduates. 1902 - the year of graduation. Shoulder boards are of those units in which they were enrolled after graduation.
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Mike on May 10, 2013, 04:24:38 PM
We need a larger (~ twice) image of the case to try to identify the names.
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: IvanVII on May 12, 2013, 12:39:00 AM
The lower left and top signatures appear to be in English as opposed to Cryllic letters.
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: tzolper on May 12, 2013, 06:32:36 PM
Thank you everyone. Nicola - another poster said the emblem was "a slightly modified graduation badge of the Naval Corps." Would that be the same as the Sea Cadet Corps? Would there be a place to find more information about the 1902 graduation class?

thanks
Tom
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2013, 12:24:58 AM
We're talking about the same school. The yearly lists of graduates may be found at Russia's Central naval archive.
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: tzolper on May 13, 2013, 11:37:24 AM
Thank you. Your help was much appreciated.
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on June 01, 2013, 07:06:14 AM
Some of the names sound German or at least English with German roots. Peter, Stephan Schaefers, Mike Vetter
Title: Re: cigarette case
Post by: Mike on June 01, 2013, 09:53:17 AM
At least a third of Russian navy's officers were of German or Swedish origin.