Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Myth and Legends of Survivors => Topic started by: GDSophie on February 08, 2017, 04:14:06 AM

Title: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: GDSophie on February 08, 2017, 04:14:06 AM
I'm not just talking about King George's offer which was then pulled back. I mean individual family members offering to take in the family or certain members. For example I read somewhere on this forum that Alexandra's sister Victoria of Milford Haven offered to take in Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia (or only Olga, Tatiana and Maria/Anastasia for some reason, or the original poster accidentally left one of the girls out). Was there anymore?
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: TimM on February 28, 2017, 06:02:36 AM
Quote
Was there anymore?

Didn't the Kaiser make an offer to take in Alexandra and the girls?
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: edubs31 on February 28, 2017, 11:16:25 AM
One of the forum members on here recently talked about this and gave some detailed accounts of apparent offers of asylum from other European royals. I believe it included King Christian of Denmark and Alfonso in Spain.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: TimM on February 28, 2017, 12:21:53 PM
So there were other offers on the table.  Sadly, none of them led to anything.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: edubs31 on February 28, 2017, 12:46:31 PM
The other question is how sincere those offers were and how far would their royal relatives have gone to ensure family's safety. We all know the British royals pulled the plug once they considered the potential fallout from unpopular & deposed royals given exile and a cozy existence within their borders.

I feel like a lot of complex negotiation would have been needed to ensure not only safe passage for the Romanovs but also appeasing/compromising with those against the idea in the first place.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: Forum Admin on February 28, 2017, 01:17:23 PM

Didn't the Kaiser make an offer to take in Alexandra and the girls?


Not quite. As part of the negotiations for the Bolshevik Russia withdrawing from the War, Germany insisted on Russia granting "the safety and protection of all of the Princesses of German blood" ie: Ella, Alix and the Grand Duchesses.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: Kalafrana on February 28, 2017, 03:14:08 PM
I'm interested in the position of Christian of Denmark. Not only was his country neutral, so there would not have been the political difficulties involved in accepting an offer from the Kaiser, but also comparatively easy to get to from St Petersburg - a fairly short sea voyage.

Haakon VII of Norway was another of Nicholas's first cousins. Was there any suggestion of an offer from Norway?

Ann
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: TimM on March 03, 2017, 07:53:40 AM
So there were a few more on the table that I realized.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: GDSophie on March 03, 2017, 11:41:29 AM
What happened to Victoria's offer if it did occur? If she asked George V about taking the girls in then it wouldn't have caused as many problems then offering to take in the whole family. I'm sure Victoria knew that they wouldn't let Nicholas, Alexandra and even Alexei into England or even out of Russia because of how many people didn't like them/Alexei's status as heir but Britain, and probably the people, seemed to have really liked OTMA if they kept publishing anecdotes and pictures of them in their newspapers. They stopped to allow other British Princesses a chance, not because the people got didn't like them or even got sick of them so why couldn't the Government discuss Victoria's offer? They could have realised OTMA would do no harm and ask for safe passage for them to England. Of course they wouldn't have gone but who says the Provisional Government would give them a choice? They could have allowed Olga to maybe stay as she was old enough to make her own decisions, possibly even Tatiana, but nothing would have stopped them, not even Nicholas and Alexandra, from forcing Maria and Anastasia to go to England to live with Victoria.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 09, 2017, 12:38:12 AM
Victoria Milford-Haven, Alix's sister and the girls' maternal aunt, heard that the girls were left alone in Tobolsk and it was then that she offered to bring them to England. The family was reunited before anything could be done.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: GDSophie on April 09, 2017, 08:55:18 AM
Victoria Milford-Haven, Alix's sister and the girls' maternal aunt, heard that the girls were left alone in Tobolsk and it was then that she offered to bring them to England. The family was reunited before anything could be done.

Ah, so it was just Olga, Tatiana and Anastasia. I wonder if she would have tried to get Maria out or if it was too late for her once she was in Ekaterinburg.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 09, 2017, 10:06:57 AM
She likely had incomplete information as the Bolsheviks were liars and felt no obligation to tell the truth. What I'm certain about is that her offer did not include Alexei, as in her view, he was heir to the throne. I'm not sure her offer excluded Marie as the information she had was the girls had been left behind in Tobolsk, not necessarily that Marie was no longer there with her sisters.

Also, just as in other cases, I do not remember where I read this. I had the same thing happen when I said I was sure that Dmitri Pavlovich's diaries were at Harvard. I looked through books for years for the citation to no avail. Then I met DP's grandson online and he was able to confirm that indeed, Dmitri's father had donated the known diaries in the 1960s to Harvard. And I've still not found the book where I read about VMH's offer to take in her nieces.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 10, 2017, 08:18:10 AM
I do not recall exact wording, but she wrote that she understand the boy and perhaps Olga were significant politically, but not so Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia, so why could she not take them in. As Lisa said, she probably had incorrect information.

I swear the quote was on this website, but I do not have the strength to go through all the possible topics.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: GDSophie on April 10, 2017, 10:16:45 AM
I do not recall exact wording, but she wrote that she understand the boy and perhaps Olga were significant politically, but not so Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia, so why could she not take them in. As Lisa said, she probably had incorrect information.

I swear the quote was on this website, but I do not have the strength to go through all the possible topics.

Why would Olga be significant politically? If she was then so was Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 10, 2017, 01:00:45 PM
Victoria was only making assumptions. I suppose Olga could have been viewed as possible "heir" because she was the eldest and HEALTHY child. She would always come before her sisters.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 10, 2017, 01:04:30 PM
FOUND IT!

When the Tsarina’s sister Victoria–the Marchioness of Milford Haven–heard that the Tsar had left for Ekaterinburg, she wrote a letter to Arthur Balfour, then Foreign Secretary, asking if it would be possible for at least three of the Tsar’s children to be brought to England and placed in her custody. ‘I quite realize that the boy is a political asset which no party in Russia would allow to be taken out of its hands, but the girls (except perhaps the eldest) can be of no value or importance,’ she said. ‘I and my husband would willingly keep them here in quiet obscurity.’ She received a reply that the difficulties in the way of such a proposal were ‘almost insuperable.’


From Princess Marina, Her Life and Times, by Stella King.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: edubs31 on April 10, 2017, 02:04:14 PM
FOUND IT!

When the Tsarina’s sister Victoria–the Marchioness of Milford Haven–heard that the Tsar had left for Ekaterinburg, she wrote a letter to Arthur Balfour, then Foreign Secretary, asking if it would be possible for at least three of the Tsar’s children to be brought to England and placed in her custody. ‘I quite realize that the boy is a political asset which no party in Russia would allow to be taken out of its hands, but the girls (except perhaps the eldest) can be of no value or importance,’ she said. ‘I and my husband would willingly keep them here in quiet obscurity.’ She received a reply that the difficulties in the way of such a proposal were ‘almost insuperable.’


From Princess Marina, Her Life and Times, by Stella King.

Good find Ally!

The thought of being separated from the rest of their family would probably have been met with outrage and dismay from TMA. Of course they may have had no choice in the matter but I find it difficult to believe they would have found the offer acceptable if they'd been given the option to leave Russia.

I wonder if such an offer had reached the decision makers prior to the family being separated in Tobolsk if some type of negotiation could have been worked out. Perhaps an arrangement to have exiled all four daughters while keeping Alexei (as the former-Heir) with his parents in captivity. Surely this still would have been met with some opposition but I could definitely imagine a scenario where Nicholas & Alexandra would have acquiesced in deference to the long term safety of their politically insignificant daughters.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: Kalafrana on April 10, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
Given that VMH was keen to have the girls, or at least the younger three, and the Kaiser wanted to rescue Ella,  is there any information about Irene and her husband, Heinrich of Prussia, in this context?

Ann
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: GDSophie on April 11, 2017, 06:01:05 AM
Given that VMH was keen to have the girls, or at least the younger three, and the Kaiser wanted to rescue Ella,  is there any information about Irene and her husband, Heinrich of Prussia, in this context?

Ann

I don't remember reading anywhere about Irene placing an offer for any of the Romanovs, but maybe someone can find information.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: TimM on June 13, 2017, 05:21:18 AM
I heard there were offers from Germany.  Not sure about Irene though.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: The Test Card Girl on January 07, 2018, 04:34:10 PM
The Scandinavian monarchies didn't allow women to be heirs without regard to males until the 1980s. All the males in the Russian line of succession would have screamed blue murder at the idea of Olga Nikolaevna becoming heir.
Title: Re: Offers of Asylum - How Many?
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 30, 2018, 11:34:51 PM
Ally, thank you so much for finding the citation regarding VMH's offer to take in her nieces! I wasn't able to give Ilana Miller the info before her bio went to press.