The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum

Discussions about Russian History => The Russian Revolution => Topic started by: Ellie on March 16, 2017, 06:34:07 AM

Title: 100 Years Later
Post by: Ellie on March 16, 2017, 06:34:07 AM
 Marking 100 years since the abdication of the Czar, I can't help but wonder if any progress towards achieving a political entity of law and order and civil liberties has been made. It's been over a quarter of a century since the fall of the USSR. Some folks say that Putin is an improvement over his predecessors. To me he seems like a continuation of Russian autocracy. Perhaps more lenient than his Soviet predecessors, but I don't see any real progress towards establishing progressive civil institutions.
A few days ago I received a link to an article describing a school for monarchists in Russia where it was stated the monarchy is Russia's fate and it might be a good idea to crown Putin as Czar  Vladamir.
I find this all very depressing. Is there not any hope for Russia to make meaningful progress from autocracy, or is autocracy Russia's fate?
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on March 16, 2017, 10:41:06 AM
Russia has dabbled with democracy from time to time, but never really managed to make it work.  Putin seems to want democracy only on his terms, he'll go so far, but no farther.  Still, Russia has had leaders much worse (Joseph Stalin, come on down).

Putin may be a de facto Tsar, but even he won't live forever.  After him, who knows what may happen.  Russia could get someone far worse, but, on the other hand, they could get someone better. 
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on March 17, 2017, 04:49:05 PM
Putin as tsar the title General secretary would be better for this ex-Chekist thug who is also a dictator on the march. Where he goes next no one knows. Some people who have met him find him to be a cold eyed killer. Based on his background this is not surprising. Putin is also getting old and people have pointed out Russia could be entering a Brezhnev like period of stagnation and corruption. There is no way Putin is going to step down voluntarily he has too many enemies. So it could be one day the Russians might get fed up with him and there might be another revolution that gets rid of him.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on March 26, 2017, 05:23:11 PM
Brave Russian kids speak up against Putin and his corrupt cronies:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/russian-youth-slam-%e2%80%98putin-the-thief%e2%80%99/ar-BByPw5H?li=AAggv0m&ocid=mailsignout
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: Ellie on March 26, 2017, 11:07:43 PM
TimM, that is a very encouraging piece of news. Despite going against the, so to speak, law, the young folks are demonstrating against corruption and against foreign adventures - namely, Syria.

This is the internet age and people now are not going to keep quiet. At least Russia isn't North Korea where the internet is blocked.

Thanks for the pointer TimM.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: Ellie on March 27, 2017, 01:24:52 AM
I was just thinking that we're now celebrating 100 years since the February revolution (as distinct from the disaster that followed it in October/November of that year).
Wouldn't it be great if we could now have a meaningful follow up to that revolution not being hijacked by that Ulyanov boy driving into Finland station - courtesy of the Kaiser?
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: edubs31 on March 27, 2017, 10:42:37 AM
It would certainly have been interesting to see what the future of Russia might have been had the Provisional Government held onto power...or had the Whites won the Civil War that followed.

It seems unlikely to me that the unrest could have been quelled so long as Russia remained in the war, and Kerensky and company we're dedicated to supporting the allied cause. Therefore it seems likely to me that legitimate leadership could never have been established unless a bloody revolution had placed them at the head of government...such as it did for Lenin and, ultimately, Stalin.

Given the constant state of confusion and identity crisis Russia has suffered from over the decades - be it as a Monarchy, a Communist state, a quasi-Democratic republic, or whatever the hell we consider it to be under Tsar Putin at present - I'm betting revolution and upheaval was, sadly, Russia's destiny...it was just a matter of when.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on March 27, 2017, 05:23:36 PM
I said before in a above post the Russians might get fed up with Putin one day and it looks like many of them are. Who knows they might have a revolution.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on March 28, 2017, 07:01:53 AM
Quote
the Russians might get fed up with Putin one day and it looks like many of them are. Who knows they might have a revolution.

Ironic if this were to happen this year, the 100th Anniversary of the last revolution.

Hope things turn out better this time.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: edubs31 on March 29, 2017, 11:22:28 AM
Quote
the Russians might get fed up with Putin one day and it looks like many of them are. Who knows they might have a revolution.

Ironic if this were to happen this year, the 100th Anniversary of the last revolution.

Hope things turn out better this time.

Don't hold your breath gentlemen. Are there any true warning signs to suggest a coup is possible or about to happen here?

Russians didn't revolt and overthrow the government during the nearly 70-year reign of the Soviet Union...despite the horrid conditions many of them were living in. Why would they be anymore likely to do with Putin in control?

Fear, intimidation and confusion (and dare I say "Fake News") are very powerful tools, especially when the one in question has plenty of supporters and has developed quite a cult of personality.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on March 30, 2017, 07:02:41 AM
Quote
Russians didn't revolt and overthrow the government during the nearly 70-year reign of the Soviet Union...despite the horrid conditions many of them were living in. Why would they be anymore likely to do with Putin in control?

Yes, but back then there was no Internet and no Social Media sites like Facebook and Twitter.  That could make a difference. Many think it was Social Media that helped the so-called Arab Spring (even if things didn't turn out well in the end). 

Something like that could happen in Russia too.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on April 04, 2017, 05:54:50 PM
Early this morning 4 Apr I saw on Cspan a program by the Atlantic council on Human rights in Russia on these protests that was quite interesting.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: Ellie on April 05, 2017, 10:11:01 PM
There are a number of things which trigger my pessimism when hearing what Russians have to say.

1. What is so important about freedom as long as we have the essentials in life?
2. Who needs to travel since I don't have enough money to do so anyway?
3. Quite a few more successful Russians as well as descendants of white emigres abroad see Putin as a godsend - their savior from communism.

Last, but not least,
4. We needed someone like Stalin in the fight against the Nazis.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JGP on April 06, 2017, 01:28:35 AM
Putin as tsar the title General secretary would be better for this ex-Chekist thug who is also a dictator on the march. Where he goes next no one knows. Some people who have met him find him to be a cold eyed killer. Based on his background this is not surprising. Putin is also getting old and people have pointed out Russia could be entering a Brezhnev like period of stagnation and corruption. There is no way Putin is going to step down voluntarily he has too many enemies. So it could be one day the Russians might get fed up with him and there might be another revolution that gets rid of him.

Based on previous posts, I never thought I would ever agree with you on anything but I most certainly do here.  Kind regards, JGP
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on April 06, 2017, 06:34:05 AM
Quote
Last, but not least,
4. We needed someone like Stalin in the fight against the Nazis.

Kind of like today, except replace Nazis with terrorism (in regards to what happened in St. Petersburg on Monday).
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on April 12, 2017, 04:54:11 PM
I would also say there is probably not going to be any commemoration of the October/November 1917 revolution. No doubt Putin like to commemorate Chekists day 20 December big time but this might not go down very well with many people. 2018 is a election year in Russia and I am almost willing to bet Putin will win of course this is going to cause him more trouble.

thanks JPG
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on April 13, 2017, 11:18:25 AM
Quote
2018 is a election year in Russia and I am almost willing to bet Putin will win of course this is going to cause him more trouble.

It will be an interesting year, to say the least.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: Ellie on April 20, 2017, 02:55:23 AM
Things seem to be improving for Russia today. Tsar Putin has just announced that he could wipe out the entire US Navy with a single bomb.
100 years later, and Russia is the world's Mighty Mouse No. 1.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on April 20, 2017, 05:25:09 AM
And the US could do the same to him. 

And then there is that fat little butterball in North Korea, who seems eager to start the Korean War up again. 
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on April 20, 2017, 04:47:59 PM
It looks like Kim Dumb is just doing his usual blustering. If he was to start Korean war no 2 he would be lucky to survive it. If war should break out the opening months will be like the Somme, Verdun, the Isonzo battles on steroids. However the South Koreans have a much larger population. as well as a well equipped, well trained, well led military add to this the DMZ is one of the most heavily fortified area on earth. Add to this they are backed up by the US and have other countries as Allies. After the South Koreans fully mobilize their military the North Korean advance will be stopped and they will start attacking north. I have heard the Chinese are telling Kim Dumb to calm down or else. So the chances of war are remote.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on April 21, 2017, 06:18:27 AM
If the Chinese are telling butterball to cut it out, it must be something.  Hopefully, they'll be able to rein him in.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on April 26, 2017, 05:20:56 PM
Along the Korean DMZ there have been many "incidents" since the cease fire of 1953. Look at Korean DMZ on wiki and there is a lot that even wiki doesn't mention.  Kim Jung Dumb and his father and grand father have a history of causing them. Part of the reason I think Kim Jung Dumb is causing trouble right now is the South Korean president has recently resigned and the country has a acting President.

As for the Chinese their President came away from his meeting with President trump impressed with him. In part do to the missle strike on Syria and in part do to trumps daughter Ivanka's children singing ect to him in Manderin Chinese. Also from the Chinese point of view the status que in Korea in good for them they have little to worry about on the Chinese/Korean border as long as the country remains divided as it is. A war could change that as could Korean unification under a pro-western South Korean government.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: Ellie on April 26, 2017, 10:42:29 PM
The unification of Germany was, I believe, instrumental in bringing down the Soviet Union. Along James' line of thought, the same fate could await China in the event of a Korean unification.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on April 27, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
Quote
Kim Jung Dumb and his father and grand father have a history of causing them. Part of the reason I think Kim Jung Dumb is causing trouble right now is the South Korean president has recently resigned and the country has a acting President.


He's like a fat little kid that no one likes, always crying for attention.  Well he's getting it. 
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on April 28, 2017, 02:33:44 PM
North Korea is the worlds only remaining Stalinist/Communist state. Dumb and his father and grandfather sometimes have or had purges where someone who falls out of favor gets shot or sent to the North Korean version of the Gulag along with most or all of their family including distant relatives who sometimes don't know the victim.

Having nuclear weapons also means North Korea and Kim Jung Um are too big too fail as they say. If North Korea implodes there will be nuclear weapons that could fall into the hands of terrorists. It could also read to millions of refugees flooding into South Korea or China or both which neither nation wants. So it looks like the world may be stuck with this monster for a long time to come and no doubt he will continue to cause trouble.
Title: Re: 100 Years Later
Post by: TimM on April 30, 2017, 07:01:11 AM
Some Russians are "sick of Putin":


http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/russians-peacefully-protest-call-for-putin-to-quit/ar-BBAxmjm?li=AAggv0m