Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Habsburgs => Topic started by: felix on February 10, 2005, 09:28:42 AM

Title: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on February 10, 2005, 09:28:42 AM
Having been in Hungary this Fall ,I was wondering  if Karl and Zita ever had any interaction with N. anfd A. They seem like such a sad couple.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 11, 2005, 11:11:49 AM
Since Karl and Zita ascended the Austro-Hungarian throne in the middle of the war, I very much doubt there were any contacts with their Russian colleagues.

Remember that prior to 1914 it was not Karl, but his uncle Franz Ferdinand, who functioned as the Austro-Hungarian heir and attended royal events around as such.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on February 19, 2005, 09:51:57 AM
Are there any good portraits of Karl or Zita because I can only find photos!?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Lisa on February 19, 2005, 10:18:10 AM
Charles:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/charles2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/charles1.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Lisa on February 19, 2005, 10:18:51 AM
Zita:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/zita1.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Lisa on February 19, 2005, 10:28:49 AM
1916 coronation:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/1916budapestcoronation.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on February 19, 2005, 11:39:51 AM
Lisa, very nice. Once in Vienna, I saw  a beautiful oval painting of her in the Hofburg Palace. Hanging with one of Empress Elisabeth and Empress Charlotte of Mexico. Thanks
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on February 19, 2005, 12:30:07 PM
Funny little thing, you called him Charles.My friends in Budapest also call him that. Could Karl be just an Austrian thing?Just wondering.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 19, 2005, 12:37:22 PM
I was a guest at the beatification of Emperor Karl of Austria last fall...there were over 200 members of the Gotha, a large number of them descendants of Karl and Zita...it was a magnificent weekend!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on February 19, 2005, 12:44:51 PM
Art,I was on my way back from Hungary,when I read about in in a paper in the  air. I was sitting with a Hungarian man who was very pleased. F.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 19, 2005, 02:44:39 PM
It was a wonderful day really...and everyone was quite pleased with the beatification.

Archduke Rudolf had written an article for The European Royal History Journal in Issue XL (August 2004) concerning his father and the beatification.  I distributed about 100 copies of the magzine with Archduke Rudolf's piece to those attending.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: James1941 on February 19, 2005, 05:01:24 PM
Nicholas II and family were reburied in St. Petersburg. GD Serge was reburied. The Dowager Empress is to be reburied. The Empress Zita was buried in the imperial crypt in Vienna.
Is there any movement of a serious nature to have the Emperor Karl's remains reburied in the imperial crypt?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on February 19, 2005, 09:03:00 PM
Lisa,thank you for these fenomenal pictures!If anyone else has their portrait or of their family(mother,father,children...),please post it!Thanks!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 19, 2005, 09:44:59 PM
Quote
Nicholas II and family were reburied in St. Petersburg. GD Serge was reburied. The Dowager Empress is to be reburied. The Empress Zita was buried in the imperial crypt in Vienna.
Is there any movement of a serious nature to have the Emperor Karl's remains reburied in the imperial crypt?


None whatsoever...I have discussed this with Archdukes Otto and Rudolf and Archduke Karl and the three of them believe that given the openheartedness that the people of Funchal expressed for the Emperor and his dispossesed family, it would be best to leave the Emperor where he is.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on February 19, 2005, 09:51:52 PM
That seems like a thoughtful thing. Is there any memorial plaque or anything to Carl next to Zita's crypt?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 20, 2005, 12:42:02 AM
There is a small chapel with a profile of the late Emperor inside the Kaisergruft.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Agneschen on February 20, 2005, 07:21:24 AM
There is a white marble bust of Kaiser Karl in the Kapuzinergruft. I had myself photographed next to it when I was in Vienna for he is my favorite Kaiser. His life was so short and so full of trials, he inherited a situation no one could have handled and yet he lived like a true christian and did all he possibly could to end that bloody WWI. He did love his country and fellow countrymen. The account of his exile in Madeira and of his death in books are often heartrending and always bring tears into my eyes. Yes, the "Friedenkaiser" well deserved his beatification.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on February 20, 2005, 08:30:11 AM
Quote
he is my favorite Kaiser. His life was so short and so full of trials, he inherited a situation no one could have handled and yet he lived like a true christian and did all he possibly could to end that bloody WWI.  Yes, the "Friedenkaiser" well deserved his beatification.


Agneschen, if ever you have time, please could you explain this more fully? :)
I still can't understand the reasons for his beatification & would love to know more. Do you have any direct quotations from him, please, which show what you mean about him living 'like a true Christian'?
Thank you!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Jim1026 on February 20, 2005, 09:14:57 AM
Quote
That seems like a thoughtful thing. Is there any memorial plaque or anything to Carl next to Zita's crypt?


Here is an execellent website on the Kaisergruft in Vienna.  www.kaisergruft.at.

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 20, 2005, 11:30:49 AM
Nice to see that the Capucins have upgraded to a website...they can be so very low tech at the Kaisergruft.  However, it is one of my favorite Viennese venues, together with the Coburg Palais, the Sacher and of course Demmel's.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Robert_Hall on February 20, 2005, 05:44:04 PM
Thanks, Arturo.  That is encouraging.
If ONLY they would get here ! Of course, I do not really expect them to, for some reason.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 20, 2005, 10:19:12 PM
Bobby...I bought extras...if the ones you ordered do not get to you let me know.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: genrail1 on February 21, 2005, 08:50:09 PM
The coronation portrait shows the good Kronprinz Otto, yes?  I think he still lives?

J. Kirchanski
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Robert_Hall on February 21, 2005, 09:35:30 PM
He is retired now, but still alive & head of the Habsburg family. [born 12 Nov. 1912]
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on February 21, 2005, 11:08:27 PM
He was (is) a physician, true?  
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 22, 2005, 01:26:52 AM
Archduke Otto is quite alive and kicking...I last spoke with him at the Vatican and took some nice photos of him before all the ceremonies began.

He celebrated his 90th birthday in 2002 with a wonderful gathering of Habsburgs in Vienna...there was a nice service at St. Stephen's, after which all guest walked to the Hofburg for speeches and a reception and then in the  evening we were treated to a marvelous cocktail party and dinner at Schönbrunn.

He studied law and politics and worked for many years as a deputy in the European parliament...not a physician at all, but a politician, one of the founders of modern Europe.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on February 22, 2005, 08:15:29 AM
OK--I don't know why I had in my mind he was a physician.  :-/  
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 23, 2005, 11:21:27 AM
Nope...neither Ottor nor his four brothers were physicians...they studied law and economics and married late, therefore insuring that children would arrive after they had settled into profitable careers.  Rudolf and Carl Ludwig lived mostly in Belgium, while Felix settled in Mexico, where several of his children continue residing.  Robert spent quite some time managing the estates inherited by his wife, Margherita of Savoy, and also had a successful career as a businessman...he was the most Parma-looking of Zita and karl's boys.

Archduke Otto is a prolific writer in history, economics and politics, and had a tremendously successful political career, both in the European parliament and as president of the Pan-Europa movement.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Aliard on February 23, 2005, 03:44:17 PM
My Austrian uncle told me he heard that the Austrian government was going to give some of the smaller Habsburg estates, such as Laxenburg, back to the family. Is this true?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on February 23, 2005, 05:13:15 PM
Not really...the Austrian government are behaving like thieves of the worst kind.  Important properties were expropriated from the descendants of Karl and Zita in the 1930's, this after the family had settled with the government for a fraction of what the republic should have restituted.  

The Austrian government continues to use as an excuse the fact that the expropriation was done by the Hitler-backed government...I wonder what the overall reaction would be if the same ridiculous excuse had been used when dealing with Jewish-owned property...these excuses are sickening...governments should not go about taking private citizens' property, be them former royals, Jews, leftists, rightists, whatever.

I am venting...  ???

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 15, 2005, 03:58:28 PM
I just got in the mail two beautiful prints of Karl and Zita when they were trying to take back the Hungarian  Throne. Gifts from Budapest.  1922? It said they were passed out to the people.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 23, 2005, 09:39:36 AM
I just found a Daily Telegraph obituary of Empress Zita (15 March 1989) & some of it I thought was v. interesting:

"...She shared the historic throne of the Holy Roman Empire; she was crowned Queen of Hungary in Budapest with her husband beside her wearing St. Stephen's Crown as Apostolic King....
The distinction frequently attributed to the Empress Zita of being the last European Empress belongs, however, to Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, one-time Empress of India.
....Her links with European historythrough her parentage were as remarkable as those of her own life.
Her father reigned as Duke of Parma from 1854 to 1859 when the Duchy was still an independent state, before the unification of Italy. Her maternal grandfather Dom Miguel, usurped the Portuguese throne in 1828, causing the conflict known as the Miguelite War or the 'war of the brothers' - in which he had the sympathy of the British Prime Minister, the Duke of Wellington, who had seen him out with the Buckhounds, when staying with George IV at Windsor, taking 'his fences like anyone else.'
Princess Zita's aunt, Dona Maria das Neves, was married to one of the Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and fought in the Second Carlist War. Her eldest half-sister, Maria Luisa, was the first wife of 'Foxy Ferdinand' of Blugaria.
The other consort of a reigning monarch among her siblings belongs to much more recent history: her younger brother Prince Felix, who married the Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg.
Princess Zita....grew up to be of exceptional beauty and intelligence; it came as no surprise then when in 1911, at the age of 19, she married Europe's greatest Catholic royal parti, the 24 year old Archduke Karl...It was a love match; in falling in love with an eligible princess, Karl differed from most Hapsburgs of the previous generation....

...The Emperor Karl's peace attempt of 1917, in which the Empress Zita's brother, Prince Sixte of Bourbon Sicily acted as intermediary, was the only serious effort to end the war, made by any of the belligerent powers...Had it succeeded millions of lives would have been saved...At the same time as he worked for peace, the Emperor Karl set about reconstructing his heterogenous empire on federal lines, so that he became known as the 'Peace Emperor' & 'Emperor of the People.'

...[After Karl's death, Zita] travelled frequently; towrads the end of her life she paid her first visit to Austria since the fall of the monarchy & was given a tumultuous reception. She also paid 2 visits to Rome, being on cordial terms with Pope John Paul II, whose father had not only been a subject of the Emperor but had been commissioned by him in the Kaiserlich und Koniglich Army. "
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 23, 2005, 03:00:03 PM
Any one know if the government  of Hungary was a Regency ,why Karl and Zita werent welcomed back? They tried twice.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 23, 2005, 03:07:23 PM
According to one account, the regent, Admiral Horthy had promised he would re-instate them but he came to love power himself & when Karl returned in 1921 he refused to accept him; when he returned a second time that year he was almost successful until Horthy summoned guards against him and drove him out by force, banishing him to Madeira.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 23, 2005, 03:13:55 PM
That's very sad. Karl may have helped Hungary, after his Trial during W.W. I.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 23, 2005, 03:20:54 PM
I agree, Felix, it is sad & I wonder too if Karl perhaps died so young (so soon after his second attempt had failed) because of the stress of what had happened to him & his failure in his attempts to bring about an earlier peace.  :(
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 23, 2005, 03:47:50 PM
I think it caused his death,such sadness,he knew the way out.  If only  F.J. had died earlier.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 23, 2005, 05:36:52 PM
Quote
 If only  F.J. had died earlier.


(Or Franz Ferdinand hadn't been shot?) It would have been interesting to see how well Karl would have succeeded as Emperor in more peaceful times; from his efforts it sounds as though he would have done a great deal of good....but yet again history is so full of if onlys.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 24, 2005, 09:20:45 AM
I think Austria-Hungary under Franz Ferdinand or Karl would have progressed into a great country, The United States of Europe. And could have put Hitlers Germany off balance.Another France to the south.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: crazy_wing on March 25, 2005, 01:00:47 AM
Quote
I think Austria-Hungary under Franz Ferdinand or Karl would have progressed into a great country, The United States of Europe. And could have put Hitlers Germany off balance.Another France to the south.


I am not sure about FF.  From what i read, Franz Ferdinand disliked Hungary very much because he had some unhappy experiences.  

Another thing, the Austro-Hungary Empire was way to big and diversed.  It is impossible to keep them all together under a foreigner with their rising nationalism.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 25, 2005, 07:41:00 AM
Quote


Another thing, the Austro-Hungary Empire was way to big and diversed.  It is impossible to keep them all together under a foreigner with their rising nationalism.


Wasn't Franz Ferdinand intending to give more autonomy to the Slav states? I understood that part of his reason for going to review the troops etc. in Sarajevo that day was to demonstrate his intention of creating more freedom for the Serbs etc. ??
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 25, 2005, 10:00:59 AM
He wanted to add the Slavs with the Austrian and Hungarians to a tri Empire. If I remember right,his wife was a Slav.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 25, 2005, 01:30:54 PM
So he certainly couldn't be accused of being anti-Slav, then  :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: TJ Jones on March 27, 2005, 04:10:13 PM
I always thought that the Austrain Hungarian Empire was doomed from the start. I think that they should have quickly proclaimed it The Kingdom of Austria. Made some treaties with the Czech, Slovenia, Hungary, Slovakia to pass over some lands and Austria wouldn't be the tiny country we see today.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 28, 2005, 04:31:13 PM
In the end it wasnt up to them. The winners decided their fate.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 30, 2005, 09:51:10 AM
I found an interesting extract about Empress Zita, from Theo Aronson's 'Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone.' He is describing how Alice met Zita in Canada during WWII:

"In many ways Empress Zita, although only fifty years old, was like a relic from another age...
In Europe between the wars Empress Zita had seemed anachronistic enough; in war time Canada she seemed extraordinary...All [her] dresses were black, floor length, long-sleeved & high necked. This same old fashioned austerity marked her behaviour. Although cultivated and articulate, the Empress was spartan, narrow-minded, ultramondaine. She lived, as Princess Alice puts it, 'in the bosom of the R.C. Church.' Her lady-in-waiting, Countess Kerstenbruck, would have to slip out of the Empress's rooms in order to enjoy a cigarette [ ;)] and a glass of sherry with the aides-de-camp [ ;D what fun!!!]. Such indulgences were not permitted in the ascetic apartments of the Empress. [ :(].
...The Empress Zita was extremely strict with her four children; her two daughters who were studying at the university in Quebec, were always chaperoned to & from their lectures by a lady-in-waiting. Princess Alice did what she could to brighten their socially restricted lives but nothing would induce the Empressto relax her own austere way of life. To take tea with the Empress was always a sober experience for the visiting Princess Alice. While the Princess & her lady-in-waiting were allowed to drink tea, the Empress Zita insisted that her family & household drink glasses of water..."

Sounds like a bundle of laughs, doesn't she!!  :-/



Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 30, 2005, 10:24:11 AM
I hope she was more fun before the war! Or poor Karl! European Royal History Journal,has a very good artical on Karl in issue XL. I think she would have been a very good Empress/Queen if she had the chance. She must have had a wild side with all those childern!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 30, 2005, 10:27:38 AM
Quote
She must have had a wild side with all those childern!


Or was just a 'good' Catholic!  ::)

Maybe she became more austere after Karl's death & all she had lived through??
It would be interesting to know more about how austere she & Karl were earlier.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on March 30, 2005, 10:40:54 AM
I think Karl's early death  affected her very,very strongly.They were both so young and in love. She seemed to work to keep their history alive. She out lived him by over 60 years! Thats alife time for some people. Sounds like Carlotta and Max,,she out lived him by 60 or so years.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on March 30, 2005, 10:47:03 AM
Yes - considering all they had just gone through, & having a young family, it must have been terribly difficult for her. Perhaps part of her austerity with her children was due to her determination to live up to Karl's ideals.
It says a lot for her strength of character that she was able to make a new life for herself.
At least she had happier memories of Karl than poor Carlotta had of Max....and ended more 'sanely'  :-/
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: sydguy71 on April 03, 2005, 06:44:45 AM
Hey Guys,
when i was in Madeira a few years ago I came across the burial place of the emperor karl. It is a small chapel. It seems so far away from the lavish buildings that the Hapsburgs had for themselves. Anyway here are the pics
(http://)(http://)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: TampaBay on April 03, 2005, 08:25:46 AM
How many children did Zita and Karl have.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on April 03, 2005, 08:33:13 AM
Five.
Otto born 1912
Robert born 1915
Felix born 1916
Karl Ludwig born 1918
Rudolph born 1919

(I don't think there were any more.)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 03, 2005, 09:40:27 AM
They also had three daughters,Arch Duchesses Adelaide,Charlotte,and Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: bluetoria on April 03, 2005, 09:50:37 AM
Oops! I thought afterwards I must have missed some because there were no daughters on the list. Thanks Felix  :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 03, 2005, 09:59:05 AM
I only noticed because I was reading "Royalty between the wars" and saw a picture.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ildiko on April 03, 2005, 10:11:38 AM
The daughters were born in 1914, 1921 and the last one posthumously in 1922.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 03, 2005, 10:15:42 AM
The three I saw in the photo,were all alive during WWII. So maybe there was a fourth. Many childern.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ildiko on April 03, 2005, 10:17:46 AM
Alltogether it were eight children five boys and three girls. Zita didn't have any miscarriages or stillborn children.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ildiko on April 03, 2005, 10:20:54 AM
Quote
So he certainly couldn't be accused of being anti-Slav, then  :)


No he certainly wasn't Anti-Slav. He knew that the monarchy could only survive if the Slavs were given more rights. This was mainly the reason why he was murdered in Sarajevo.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 03, 2005, 10:25:25 AM
So all eight  lived. Funny story in book about Princess Alice,feeling bad for girls.And giving them entertainments. They were all in College in Quebec. They sent the war years in Canada. Zita wore  full lenght black.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 03, 2005, 10:27:51 AM
I agree with you on that. He had a plan to add the Slavs,on equal standing with the Austrians and Hungarians.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ildiko on April 03, 2005, 10:28:41 AM
Yes after Karl's death Zita never wore colour again.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ildiko on April 03, 2005, 10:29:40 AM
Quote
I agree with you on that. He had a plan to add the Slavs,on equal standing with the Austrians and Hungarians.


And this would've certainly been a good thing to do.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 03, 2005, 10:32:06 AM
It, In my Opinion could or would have saved the Empire.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ildiko on April 03, 2005, 10:36:45 AM
There has also been discussion to converte the Empire to an organisation of states (like the USA), the capital would of course have remained in Vienna, but all other big cities (Budapest, Prag,...) would've had their own goverment too. It should've been called United Empire of Austria and...(can't remember exactly). But of course the War stopped this plans. Karl signed a document in 1916 making a step towards this but it was already to late then.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 03, 2005, 10:46:03 AM
I, I have a book about all that, It could have been called"The Unite States of Central Europe" I will have to open it again.I think its in  "The Dissolution of the Habsburg Monarchy".by Oscar Jaszi.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Grand Duke on April 22, 2005, 06:37:07 PM
[size=16]THE BAPTISM DRESS OF THE LAST EMPEROR OF AUSTRIA[/size]

Temporary Exhibition: 7th April - 30th June 2005 at the National Museum of Dress and Fashion, Lisbon, Portugal.

This exhibition shows 20 pieces of the baptism clothes of Emperor Karl, who was born in 1887.

After WW1, Karl and his family went to exile to Madeira Island (Portugal) where Karl died in 1922.

These clothes were given by Empress Zita to Doña Constança de Almeida, making an unique, interesting and rare spoil where we can find the baptism dress of the Emperor.


Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: felix on April 23, 2005, 10:58:57 AM
I wonder why they didnt stay in the family?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Grand Duke on April 24, 2005, 02:13:35 PM
Quote
I wonder why they didnt stay in the family?


Maybe Zita didn't want things that would remember her about Karl.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 16, 2005, 12:37:01 PM
Can someone post some pics of the charming Princess Zita of Bourbon-Parma (1892-1989), when she was young, in the 1900-1910's, before and after her marriage with archiduc Karl of Austria ?
Thanks for your answer.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Laura_ on December 16, 2005, 06:15:31 PM

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/bourbon/bbparma2/1892%20Zita.JPG)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Laura_ on December 16, 2005, 06:26:30 PM
(http://images.snapfish.com/33%3B:2%3C4%3B23232%7Ffp54%3Dot%3E232:%3D6%3B%3C%3D878%3DXROQDF%3E232364:8:5257ot1lsi)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 18, 2005, 05:23:59 AM
Thanks for these great pics, Laura. Zita seems very, very lovely with her adorable smile and was really a pretty and gracious princess of her time
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dboro on January 03, 2006, 09:05:44 AM
Once again:

In the 1980s:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/Kaiserin_Zita_off_Bild_k.gif)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dboro on January 03, 2006, 09:10:06 AM


Two of them:

Wedding:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/Cat20No2070--The20Newlyweds20at20th.jpg)

From the Hungarian crowning - photoshoot, 1916
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/Cat20No20140--The20Hungarian20Royal.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Booklady on January 06, 2006, 07:37:14 PM
I've always loved Zita's wedding tiara.  Can someone tell me anything about it, and are there other wedding photos that you could share? :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dboro on January 07, 2006, 06:52:02 AM
There are some more wedding pictures on the website mentioned above, but there's some problem with it, because I can't open some of them - and as thumbnail images, they're REALLY small. :'( Like this:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/Cat20No2069--Wedding20Party20on20th.jpg)

I managed to find one more shot on the web:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/austria08h.jpg)

And there's also a short movie from 1911 (!). You can watch it here:

http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.film.o/o426a



Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on January 19, 2006, 12:07:47 PM
At time of her engagement with archiduc Carl of Austria, Zita was 19 years old. But on pics of her marriage, she seems so juvenile !
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on February 19, 2006, 08:28:49 AM
Zita was ever very elegant. As a simple princess of Bourbon-Parma and later, as a young empress, she had a sophisticated style and a natural class and chic.
The 1900's fashion suited her very well.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on March 06, 2006, 09:55:48 AM
What do you know about Zita's childhood ? On photos of her with parents and siblings she wasn't often smiling. Did she had a happy childhood and what were her relations with children of her father's first marriage ?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Monarchist on March 13, 2006, 09:37:42 PM

Thanks for the lovely pictures. Of the lead characters of early 20th century royals I've always found her as one of the most intriguing.  
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on March 16, 2006, 04:46:28 PM
Now available through Amazon.com:    
   
In Memoriam... is an exclusive EUROHISTORY royalty series dedicated to the life of some of the most interesting and intriguing royal personalities of the XXth century. Lavishly illustrated with many rare photographs from EUROHISTORY's vast photo archive - each volume contains more than 130 wonderful images of the person it pays tribute to. We have also included family trees and genealogical information, as well as biography of the person or couple the volume pays tribute to.

A unique treat in this firsty volume is a photo gallery containing photos of all the grandchildren of Emperor Karl and Empress Zita!
   
The first volume of our royalty series pays tribute to Empress Zita of Austria, Queen of Hungary!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F1PHOI/ref=pd_ys_pym_a_4/104-7898788-5091928?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

Enjoy,

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: pers on March 17, 2006, 12:48:11 PM
Do you know whether photos exist of her State Funeral in Vienna in 1988?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marlene on March 17, 2006, 12:59:36 PM
Quote
Do you know whether photos exist of her State Funeral in Vienna in 1988?



Of course ... newspapers and magazines covered the funeral, which I think was shown on tv in Austria, as well.  In fact, I think there was a video (PAL, region 2) sold afterward.  I was working for the Associated Press at the time, and one of our Viennese correspondents attended, and he sent me the program, the mass card, his ticket and seat ticket.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on March 17, 2006, 04:58:46 PM
They had some in an issue of either Royalty or Majesty at the time.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marlene on March 17, 2006, 09:55:56 PM
Quote
They had some in an issue of either Royalty or Majesty at the time.


and Point de Vue, Paris Match, Le Figaro, Hola, all the glossy magazines, etc etc.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on March 18, 2006, 11:30:25 AM
Oh yes they do...

I have the video which is wonderful.  I also have 3-4 photos I bought from a photographer who was there at the time.  Two of these made it into the Zita In Memorian.

When the Empress died I was on Spring Break in Costa Rica visiting my parents.  I was quite tempted to leave the beach, and my poor mother stone-cold, and hop on an airplane and fly to Vienna to witness the funeral...alas, maternal guilt won that day!  :-)

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on March 23, 2006, 08:30:33 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/Zita.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: royal_netherlands on March 23, 2006, 10:55:30 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/75152_119644.jpg)
Karl and Zita whit thier childeren.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 03, 2006, 02:39:37 PM
A charming picture of Zita with her daughter Adélaïde :

(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/904/zitaadelaide8ld.th.png) (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zitaadelaide8ld.png)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 04, 2006, 08:49:53 AM
The happy young couple :

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6779/karlandzita3ru.th.jpg) (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=karlandzita3ru.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 04, 2006, 09:44:35 AM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita visiting people during the war :

(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/521/austria8be.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=austria8be.jpg)

(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/6323/visit9iz.th.jpg) (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=visit9iz.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 06, 2006, 12:14:56 PM
(http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/7681/zia22mr.th.jpg) (http://img471.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zia22mr.jpg)

Zita with two ladies of her Court
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on May 02, 2006, 07:52:38 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zita.jpg)
Zita as a young archiduchess of Austria just before her marriage

She was so lovely on this photo !
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Paola on May 23, 2006, 07:11:45 AM
Having read the tread about the reburial of Empress Marie Feodorovna in St. Petersburg, I wonder if there are any plans for the reburial of Emperor Karl in Vienna,  next to his beloved Zita.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on May 28, 2006, 11:03:36 AM
Engagement pictures of Zita and Karl :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/pianore.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on June 17, 2006, 08:56:16 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitafamily.jpg)
The family of Roberto and Maria Antonia of Parma; Zita is the girl sitting on a little chair near her half sister Maria Luisa in black
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on June 24, 2006, 09:51:05 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1914.jpg)
Zita in beautiful dress and pretty hat in 1914, before the War
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on June 24, 2006, 01:32:12 PM
Nice and rare pictures. Very beautiful to see. Yes, they fit very good to each other, but indeed Zita was  better in diplomatic things than her husband. During the war in 1917 they have once been in my hometown Bad Homburg to meet Kaiser Wilhelm II and his generals Hindenburg and Ludendorff (who by the time mostly decided anything by themselves), to discuss about peace, and there was a women with a deep sense for serving for her country and the Habsburg family, and she was also very intelligent concerning politics and was good in diplomatic things, she was better than her husband in things like that. There is an article published by a former teacher of mine, and that shows this point very well.

I also like her much, also her appearance, she was very beautiful and became very old. But concerning the picture of Marc, I must confess that I don´t like it so much. Around the mouth and the nose it´s quite ok, but she has some coldness  and some arrogance in her eyes there, which was not her´s in my opinion.

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 24, 2006, 05:04:56 PM

What a great picture !!! Is anybody able to identify the other persons? Of course, Maria Antonia is sitting in the centre of the photo... I usually have problems to identify all these little children...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Guinastasia on June 25, 2006, 08:03:45 PM
Did she and Karl have a happy marriage?

My aunt had one of their surviving sons (not Otto) come to their church to speak about the proposed beatification of his father.

ETA: I think it was Rudolf.

I found Otto's homepage (http://otto.twschwarzer.de/).  Wow-he looks really good for 94 years old!  He looks younger than my grandfather, who's 82!  

How were her older siblings, who were mentally retarded, treated?  I noticed they at least showed up in family photos, much like Alexandrine of Prussia.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Guinastasia on June 26, 2006, 06:51:08 PM
Thank you.  That's good to know that they were well taken care of.  Considering how so many people with disabilities were treated in those days.

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eurohistory on July 08, 2006, 09:10:48 AM


That photo of Archduke Otto does not show him at 94, it is from a few years ago.  I attended his 90th birthday celebrations in Vienna in 2002 and had the opportunity to talk with the Archduke at some length.

I also had a private interview with him last in Rome in 2004 during the beatification ceremonies for his father, not just because of the magazine I publish, but also because I have been a member of the Gebetsliga for many, many years.

It has always amazed me how sharply coherent Archduke Otto remains...meeting him leaves with a great sense of having been in the presence of an incredibly talented man.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on August 19, 2006, 11:21:10 AM
Admittedly, Zita was beautiful and incarnated with wonder all the graces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

But, she was especially equipped with a formidable personality with an energy and a force of character which gave her, later, courage to cross all the tests and misfortunes with a dignity and an irreproachable direction of the duty.

Her faith as a God, inebranlable, also helped her to face, always the high face, her incredible destiny. And one can only be admiring in front of such a courage and with such an abnegation in front of the adversity.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on October 17, 2006, 09:24:00 AM
Two official portraits of Zita shortly after her marriage :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaofparma.jpg)
Alone

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/charlesandzia.jpg)
And with Karl
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Bernardino on October 27, 2006, 02:41:00 PM
Does anyone know anything about Empress Zita's relationship with her mother?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: amelia on October 27, 2006, 05:12:28 PM
I think that Emperor Karl is burried in Madeira Island, Portugal, where I was born.

Amelia
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Bernardino on October 27, 2006, 05:22:02 PM
I believe he is burried in Senhora do Monte Church in Funchal.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Veronika on October 28, 2006, 04:37:53 AM
I know an old woman, she lives near my domicile, and she told my about her aunt. She was lady-in-waiting of empress Zita. This old woman has a big and beautiful old armchair from any castle, and she gave mi some old photos with imperial family. In one photo is her aunt with children from Carl and Zita. ( I cogitated she was maybe a nanny. I must tell it to old lady).It´s very interesting. But my scaner is not functional now, I can´t give this photos her. But when I´ll have a new scaner, I´ll give it here.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Rani on November 01, 2006, 08:25:12 AM
Zita with her children

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/zita01.jpg)

The four eldest children

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/zita_kinder.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Rani on November 04, 2006, 02:15:10 PM
A lovely picture. Zita with son Otto and some of her other children.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/50451914.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 05, 2006, 11:32:40 AM


If I am not mistaken, I believe that Archiduke Karl Franz Josef of Austria - later Kaiser Karl I - was born on August 17, 1887, and that he died prematurely in 35 years, on April 01, 1922, of a pneumonia or a disease of this kind.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 13, 2006, 10:41:43 AM
Zita in a new pose, shortly after her marriage :


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/archiduchess.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: TampaBay on November 14, 2006, 06:04:55 AM
She reminds me of Tatiana in this picture.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 18, 2006, 08:02:54 AM

I don't know if Tatiana was prettier than Zita or the reverse. I could not pronounce me on this subject because I would not be an impartial judge.

In any case, I think that Zita was more beautiful with the naturalness than in photographs. Indeed, on films archive where we can see her in her youth, she appears always radiant, bright of beauty and grace.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 19, 2006, 05:18:23 AM
I personally think her features were sharper than Tatiana's, but it also indicated that Zita had a stronger personality than the elegant but quieter Tatiana.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 23, 2006, 12:17:37 PM
A temperament out of the commun run, indeed !
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 23, 2006, 07:48:23 PM
Commum run ?  ???
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 25, 2006, 10:10:47 AM
I wanted to say a not very common temperament, of course  ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 19, 2006, 12:55:09 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/earlymarriage-1.jpg)
The young couple moving in sledge during winter

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaparma.jpg)
Zita slipping on a toboggan with Karl and two of her Parma's brothers
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on December 22, 2006, 04:23:36 PM
I believe he is burried in Senhora do Monte Church in Funchal.
That is right. It is an island called Madeira off the African coast. It belongs to Portugal.

Kaiser Karl is buried there and will be there for some time. The reason is that he was beatified on October 3, 2004 by the pope Johannes Paul II. There is a large group of the Kaiser's followers called the "Gebetsliga" which has the intention to make of him a saint. There is a canonization process going on. There is a rule inside the Catholic Church that during the process (Beatification or next step Sainthood) the body must not be moved. So for the time being he will rest in Madeira.

It is the intention of the family that he will eventually be moved to Vienna and rest besides the Empress Zita. But first he must attain Sainthood.

Once the time comes there will be a major problem. The people from Madeira have called him now for quite some time "The Saint of Funjal" and the Church or Chapel where he is buried has become a Shrine where thousands go to pray. Will the family want to move the body when time arrives? Will they take into account the will and devotion from the noble people from Madeira? Time will tell.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 24, 2006, 06:06:50 AM
On the last photograph, on the toboggan behind Zita, we recognizes her two brothers Sixte and Xavier of Bourbon Parma which, committed later in the allied armies, will help their sister to start talks with France to try as fast as possible to put a term at the war.

Unfortunately for Karl and Zita, these attempts failed in front of the obstinacy of Clemenceau to want the fall of Hasburgs at all costs.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on January 07, 2007, 06:57:19 AM
The marriage of Karl and Zita took place in the castle of Schwarzeau, near Vienna, on October 21 1911, in the presence of Emperor François Joseph :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1911.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/weddcarlzita.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/wedding1911.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/wedd19.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 18, 2007, 02:03:08 PM

I've seen quite a few of these wedding pictures and I like them a lot. In most of these photos we can see Maria Antonia of Parma, Archduchess Marie Therese, Archduchess Maria Josepha, Archduchess Marie Valérie and her husban Archduke Franz Salvator and Archduke Franz Ferdinand.
Is anybody able to identify this little girl we can see in the first two pictures? Is she a younger sister of Zita? Maybe Henriette?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on January 28, 2007, 06:13:22 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zita3.jpg)

She was very beautiful on this pic ! :D
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on February 18, 2007, 09:32:55 AM
Two lovely portraits of Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/erzerzogin.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zita.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Veronika on February 21, 2007, 03:55:43 AM
I talked with an old lady today. She said that her aunt was a lady-in-waiting. There are my photos:

Karl and Zita with their children

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/Veronika1837/skenovat0002-1.jpg)

Other photo

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/Veronika1837/skenovat0001.jpg)


Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Sissi on February 21, 2007, 01:40:03 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/zitahungarycoronation.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/zitacoronation.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/zitacarriage.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/zitachatting.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Sissi on February 21, 2007, 01:46:58 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/zitawithcomitiva.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/zitasmiling.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Sissi on February 21, 2007, 01:52:20 PM
Mariage Group:

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/zitamariagegroup.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 21, 2007, 07:06:58 PM
Did she lost her jewels in the war ?  ???
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on February 24, 2007, 03:17:07 AM
Did she lost her jewels in the war ?  ???


The facts are even more tragic.

The shortly after their exile, Charles and Zita had entrusted the few jewels which they had been able to carry with them with a right-hand man, Bruno Steiner.

This last had received for mission of reselling them in Switzerland on behalf of the deposed sovereigns but, once arrived to Zurich, he had disappeared by carrying the jewels with him.

And one found neither one nor the others.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: ashdean on March 01, 2007, 06:29:52 AM
Did she lost her jewels in the war ?  ???


The facts are even more tragic.

The shortly after their exile, Charles and Zita had entrusted the few jewels which they had been able to carry with them with a right-hand man, Bruno Steiner.

This last had received for mission of reselling them in Switzerland on behalf of the deposed sovereigns but, once arrived to Zurich, he had disappeared by carrying the jewels with him.

And one found neither one nor the others.
That story I think concerns the CROWN jewels such as Marie Antoinette's rubies, the famous black pearls etc..Zita's personal jewels cannot all have been lost because in widowhood she ceratinly never wore any adornments....she still owned the diadem that was her wedding gift from the Emperor Franz josef & was later worn on her wedding day by Princess Regina when she married Zita's eldest son Otto..
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on March 03, 2007, 05:31:43 AM
Yes, of course, Zita fortunately could preserve some jewels of family which she bequeathed later to her descendants.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 04, 2007, 07:38:56 PM
Only saw small pins and brooches in museums though... :(
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: ashdean on March 05, 2007, 12:09:15 PM
Only saw small pins and brooches in museums though... :(
Eric... we just said that although she herself did not wear them in her widowhood..Zita salvaged her OWN JEWELS and at least one TIARA  passed to her eldest son...no mention has been made of any being in museums...I AM INTERESTED TO KNOW..WHICH MUSEUMS ZITA'S GEMS ARE IN..Thanks in advance for the details...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: TampaBay on March 05, 2007, 07:17:49 PM
Zita was ever very elegant. As a simple princess of Bourbon-Parma and later, as a young empress, she had a sophisticated style and a natural class and chic.
The 1900's fashion suited her very well.

Zita was many things but I would noy call her simple.  She once told her daughter that the " Bourbon-Parma' line were French kings that ruled in Italy.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 05, 2007, 07:58:22 PM
The only little pins and booches from Sisi were shown in the vault where the crowns were kept in Vienna. It was a let down after seeing the other splendors of the Hapsburgs.  :(
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Greenowl on March 13, 2007, 05:25:19 PM
Interesting question! I do not know the answer either. However, I did hear that Css Xenia Tschernyschev-Besobrasoff, the first wife of Archduke Rudolf, died as the result of a car crash in Belgium in 1968....thus I wonder if you could be confusing the death of Archduke Johannes with that of his mother? Does anybody out there know the answer??
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on March 31, 2007, 07:24:37 AM
Karl and Zita with the old Emperor Franz Josef :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/karlziafranz.jpg)

The young couple together :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/youngcouple4.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 01, 2007, 03:08:28 AM
At least the first of these pictures posted by KarlandZita is a montage.  ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 09, 2007, 11:00:41 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaotto.jpg)
Zita with her baby son Archduke Otto

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1914.jpg)
The family in 1914 : Charles and Zita with their children Otto and Adélaide

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/sittingzia.jpg)
Again in 1914 but Zita alone
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 09, 2007, 08:44:26 PM
like her lovely choker.  ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 15, 2007, 08:25:09 AM
Yes, Zita carried little jewels but of beautiful ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 22, 2007, 09:58:52 AM
The young couple of heirs as a second in 1914 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/carlzita.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/carlzitabis.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on April 22, 2007, 05:35:14 PM
Her dress looks lovly indeed the hat looks so pretty.
Zita's birthday is fastly approaching in May. ::)

I love this picture of her and Karl so nice.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/KarlandZita.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on May 01, 2007, 10:05:53 AM
Funeral procession of the old Emperor Franz Joseph in the streets of Vienna on November 30, 1916 : at the head, the Emperor Karl, the Empress Zita and the Heir Otto :


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/royalcortege.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1916bis.jpg)


The Hungarian crowning in Budapest on December 20, 1916 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/couronnement1916.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1916.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1916couronnement2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/coronation2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/otto1916.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: LenelorMiksi on June 09, 2007, 09:57:28 AM
Are there photos of Zita's two youngest children, Archduchesses Charlotte & Elisabeth as young women?  I've seen many of them as little girls.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 10, 2007, 08:10:58 PM
Harder to find since they don't do postcards after WWI, other then weddings I think.  ???
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on June 12, 2007, 03:28:04 PM
Does anybody have picture of her eldest doughter Adelheid, when she was aduld?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on June 12, 2007, 10:54:21 PM
Magazines covered the family well into the 1920s. The focus was primarly on Zita (so young to be widowed with such a large family) and the heir, Otto.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/3640320891w.jpg)

Zita & Adelheid

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/10_1_bzitaadelaidew.jpg)

Charlotte's wedding (courtesy of worldroots.com which has several more wedding photos)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/charlotteaustria1921-5.jpg)

Zita, her children & in-laws

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/Zitafamily.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on June 12, 2007, 10:55:37 PM
Zita, her children on her 70th birthday

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/Zitafamily1962.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/Foto0061w.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/AustrianEmpressZita2daughtersw.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on June 14, 2007, 04:01:48 PM
I always wonder why Zita's first daughter Adelheid died so early. If I am not mistaken, she died in 1971 when she was 57 years old. She was first who died from her siblings.
Actualy all daughters of Zita and Karl just passed away. Charlotte died in 1989 when she was 68, Elisabeth Charlotte in 1993, when
she was 71. It's very strange in comparison with their brothers (especially Otto) and their mother Zita, isn't it?
Do you know any details about reason of Adelheid death?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on June 16, 2007, 10:43:58 AM
Zita as a young Empress during the War :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/parade.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 17, 2007, 08:16:57 PM
She looked charming...If they could have stopped the war. Austrian would have had an excellent Empress.  ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on June 28, 2007, 06:08:40 PM
Zita is very lovely, and i hear much NICER then Sissi ever was. Zita also aged very well.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on June 30, 2007, 08:56:37 AM
Little Zita, on the left, posing with her siblings : Marie-Antonie born in 1895, René born in 1894 and Felix born in 1893 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/bambino.jpg)

Zita little girl ; she was a very wise and very studious pupil who liked the music particularly :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zch.jpg)

The Pianore Villa where was born Zita and where she passed part of her childhood. It is there that her engagement to Karl of Austria took place :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/villa.jpg)

The father of Zita, Robert de Bourbon, Duke of Parma and Plaisance, infant of Spain. Son of the Duke Charles III of Parma and the Princess Louise de France, he was born in 1848 and died in 1907 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/fath.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/rob.jpg)

The mother of Zita, Marie-Antonie, Princess of Bragance; She was the daughter of Don Miguel, infant of Portugal and his wife Princess Adélaide de Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/moth.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 03, 2007, 10:31:59 AM
Awsome pics!! :) Zita's mother looks like a lot Maria Josepha, wife of Karl Theodor, brother of Sissi. were Marie-Antonie and Maria Josepha sisters?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on July 03, 2007, 03:24:12 PM
Yes, they were. There were 6 sisters, and 1 brother, all children of Miguel of Portugal (who'd tried to upsurp the crown from his niece) and Princess Adelheid of Lowenstein-Werthem-Rosenberg.
 
1) Maria das Neves (1852-1941); m.1871 Alfonso, Infant of Spain, Duke of Saint-Jaime
2) Miguel , Duke of Braganza (1853-1927); m.1st 1877 Elisabeth of Thurn und Taxis m.2d 1893 Marie Therese of Löwenstein-Wertheim- Rosenberg
3) Maria Teresa (1855-1944); m.1873 Karl Ludwig, Archduke of Austria (stepmother of AD Otto, Emperor Karl's father)
4) Maria José (1857-1943); m.1874 Karl Theodor, Duke in Bavaria (mother of Queen Elizabeth Belgium)
5) Adelgundes (1858-1946); m.1876 Henry of Bourbon-Parma, Comte di Bardi
6) Maria Ana (1861-1942); m.1893 William IV, Grand Duke of Luxembourg (mother of GDss Charlotte)
7) Maria Antónia (1862-1959); m.1884 Roberto, Duke of Parma (Zita's parents, also parents of Charlotte's husband Felix)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 03, 2007, 07:51:43 PM
The legendary Braganzas !  ;D
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on July 15, 2007, 05:14:06 AM

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/fath.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/rob.jpg)



With my opinion, the father of Zita had the physical characteristics of the Bourbons, inherited from his mother Louise of France.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on July 24, 2007, 07:30:21 PM
I talked with an old lady today. She said that her aunt was a lady-in-waiting. There are my photos:

Karl and Zita with their children

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/Veronika1837/skenovat0002-1.jpg)

Other photo

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/Veronika1837/skenovat0001.jpg)




I can see this picture was taken when they lived in Spain. They had a house borrowed by Alfonso XVIII of spain in a small village called Lequeitio, in the basque country, north of spain.

Very nice picture
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on July 25, 2007, 03:34:08 AM
I believe he is burried in Senhora do Monte Church in Funchal.
That is right. It is an island called Madeira off the African coast. It belongs to Portugal.

Kaiser Karl is buried there and will be there for some time. The reason is that he was beatified on October 3, 2004 by the pope Johannes Paul II. There is a large group of the Kaiser's followers called the "Gebetsliga" which has the intention to make of him a saint. There is a canonization process going on. There is a rule inside the Catholic Church that during the process (Beatification or next step Sainthood) the body must not be moved. So for the time being he will rest in Madeira.

It is the intention of the family that he will eventually be moved to Vienna and rest besides the Empress Zita. But first he must attain Sainthood.

Once the time comes there will be a major problem. The people from Madeira have called him now for quite some time "The Saint of Funjal" and the Church or Chapel where he is buried has become a Shrine where thousands go to pray. Will the family want to move the body when time arrives? Will they take into account the will and devotion from the noble people from Madeira? Time will tell.



Interesting, but to make a saint of Karl, what criteries must be fulfilled? Is there not something that a miracle must have happened? But I think this was already necessary for the beatification. But wat else must be fulfilled that he can become a saint?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Greenowl on July 25, 2007, 05:52:00 AM
Maximiliano’s very interesting contributions reminded me of something I had forgotten, namely the so-called "Gebetsliga". I had heard no reference to it for over 20 years. However, many years ago in Vienna (in the mid-1980s, when I was young) an elderly gentleman who was a member gave me a small medal. I placed the medal in my credit card holder, in which I also carry my driving licence, health insurance card etc and it has been there ever since....I had forgotten about it, but I checked just now and sure enough, it is there. On one side of the medal there is an iron cross, and on the other a pair of hands joined in prayer. Both are surrounded by a circle with figures/numerals like the face of a clock. I wonder does Maximiliano or anyone else know the significance of this medal or what it means? If so, I would be interested to hear.

Britt, I don't know what criteria one needs to fulfill in order to become a saint in the Catholic Church, but I am sure there must be information about it somewhere on the Internet. However, I understand that some people objected to the canonization of Kaiser Karl on the ground that he sanctioned poison gas attacks on the Italian front in 1917....whether this objection is based on fact I cannot say.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yseult on July 25, 2007, 07:44:27 AM
Interesting, but to make a saint of Karl, what criteries must be fulfilled? Is there not something that a miracle must have happened? But I think this was already necessary for the beatification. But wat else must be fulfilled that he can become a saint?

To gain sainthood in the Catholic Church is a lenghty process. He (Karl) was declarated venerable, the first step on the process, in 1954, and was beatified in 2004. Before the beatification, a miracle attributed to him was "proved". He need only one more miracle to be proclaimed saint. I believe there are a few "miracles" under investigation right now.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: grandduchessella on July 25, 2007, 09:38:46 AM
 In December 2003, the Vatican recognized the authenticity of a miracle accomplished through his intercession: the 1960 healing of a Brazilian nun whose paralysis from debilitating varicose veins doctors had pronounced incurable. She prayed for help and was able to walk from her bed.

"During the Mass of Beatification on 3 October 2004, Pope John Paul II stated: Charles IThe decisive task of Christians consists in seeking, recognizing and following God's will in all things. The Christian statesman, Charles of Austria , confronted this challenge every day. To his eyes, war appeared as "something appalling". Amid the tumult of the First World War, he strove to promote the peace initiative of my Predecessor, Benedict XV. From the beginning, the Emperor Charles conceived of his office as a holy service to his people. His chief concern was to follow the Christian vocation to holiness also in his political actions. For this reason, his thoughts turned to social assistance. May he be an example for all of us, especially for those who have political responsibilities in Europe today!"

It's not modern-day movement either. The initial campaign for Karl began in 1949 when testimony of his holiness was collected in the Archdiocese of Vienna. In 1954, he was declared venerable, the first step on the process beatification. His feast day is 21 October, the date of Karl's marriage in 1911 to Princess Zita. There was originally controversy over the beatification over the conflicting reports about the use/authorizaton of poison gas during WW1.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on July 28, 2007, 05:51:59 AM
Medal with the effigy of Charles and Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/m.jpg)

The young couple the day of their wedding in 1911 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/cz.jpg)

Charles and Zita in 1914 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/coupleportrait.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 29, 2007, 08:24:30 PM
He may be a saint, but Zita had the strength of this union.  :o
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dmitri on July 30, 2007, 11:27:54 PM
Yes I have always wondered why his body has not been brought back to Vienna. It is weird that his remains are still so far away from home. What I find more extraordinary is the incredible longevity of Karl and Zita's son Dr. Otto von Habsburg. Of course Zita lived for a very long time. It is highly unusual though for a man to live so very long. What amazing memories he must have. He is truly the last living link with the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. Once he is no more a line will definitely be drawn in the sand cutting off that empire forever and relegating it permanently to the history books.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Rudolf_II on July 31, 2007, 01:08:42 PM
What I find more extraordinary is the incredible longevity of Karl and Zita's son Dr. Otto von Habsburg. Of course Zita lived for a very long time. It is highly unusual though for a man to live so very long. What amazing memories he must have. He is truly the last living link with the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. Once he is no more a line will definitely be drawn in the sand cutting off that empire forever and relegating it permanently to the history books.

Three of Otto's brothers are still alive, the youngest of whom is 87.  The longevity of the family can, I believe, be traced back to their great grandmother, Adelaide of Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg, wife of Miguel I of Portugal.  She had seven children who reached the ages of 88, 74, 88, 85, 87, 81 and 96.  Otto's grandmother, Maria Antonia of Portugal was the last.  She married Robert, Duke of Parma and had 12 children.  Most of them went past 70, including Zita of Bourbon-Parma (Otto's mother) who reached 96.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on August 02, 2007, 01:48:51 AM
As far as I have read, to attain Sainthood Kaiser Karl must now make another miracle. Miracles come by every day, and some have allegedly been already realized by him, but a miracle must be attributed 100% to a certain person. Beatification can only occur after death, sanctification after beatification. The Vatican must recognize the authenticity of a miracle accomplished through his intercession. It often takes centuries before this happens.

In the case of Kaiser Karl he did get some sort of "Fast track" approval from Pope Johannes Paul II to become beatified since he was very close at hart (and name Karol = Karl) with the Hapsburgs.
Pope Benedict XVI is also close to the family and was in charge for the file regarding the Beatification of the Emperor. I was told this by someone at the "Gebetsliga"

It is curious to note that 3 sons of the beatified person where present at the ceremony. Curious because it almost always takes centuries to be beatified and second because most beatified persons are nuns or monks, priests or bishops and seldom laymen. Catholic nuns and priests cannot marry and consequently have no children.

Kaiserin Zita was always very close to the Vatican and had her yearly audience with the pope for as long as she lived in Europe. Cardinal Groer read the funeral mass for Empress Zita in 1989 in Vienna. Next day there was a delegation of loyal admirers of the Empress who requested to the cardinal that a canonization process should start at once. The Catholic Church only receives such requests 15 years after the death's anniversary, although there are very few exceptions as Mother Theresa of Calcutta where the process started at once.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dmitri on August 02, 2007, 01:56:44 AM
Yes all very interesting. I find the life of Kaiserin Zita rather tragic. She was an ex-Kaiserin for so long without any position. Apart from her family it seemed like a very long and wasted life. Others would have had far more freedom than Zita even if they had been a local shopkeeper's daughter. Fancy being a widow for so long and never remarrying. Most young widows would escape that fate.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on August 03, 2007, 02:19:18 AM
Thank you! Wonderful. I'm looking, if I'll find more.
 ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dmitri on August 04, 2007, 09:59:15 PM
Yes the photos are great. It always struck me how slender Karl and Zita both were even when young. They both looked terribly frail.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on August 05, 2007, 02:48:07 AM
They look very happy together, and Zita was always very loyal to the house of the Habsburg, even after the death of her husband, she was very diplomatic, too. I think not in all royal marriages the couple looks that happy like on those pictures and also stay happy after having so many children and living together for quite along time  ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dmitri on August 05, 2007, 03:49:33 AM
Well she was marrying very well indeed. Of course Zita became Empress and even an ex-Empress has a higher position than a mere Mrs.Smith. One wonders how she coped being a widow for so many years as she was truly quite young when Karl died. She basically became a sort of non-blessed/official Nun. She ended up living with them towards the end as well. She never varied her style of clothing either even as she became older and times changed quite dramatically. She seemed to almost be living embalmed in wax.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on August 06, 2007, 09:51:52 PM
.

Zita & kronprinz Otto

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/ZitaetOtto.jpg)

.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on August 07, 2007, 01:50:34 AM
As far as I have read, to attain Sainthood Kaiser Karl must now make another miracle. Miracles come by every day, and some have allegedly been already realized by him, but a miracle must be attributed 100% to a certain person. Beatification can only occur after death, sanctification after beatification. The Vatican must recognize the authenticity of a miracle accomplished through his intercession. It often takes centuries before this happens.

In the case of Kaiser Karl he did get some sort of "Fast track" approval from Pope Johannes Paul II to become beatified since he was very close at hart (and name Karol = Karl) with the Hapsburgs.
Pope Benedict XVI is also close to the family and was in charge for the file regarding the Beatification of the Emperor. I was told this by someone at the "Gebetsliga"

It is curious to note that 3 sons of the beatified person where present at the ceremony. Curious because it almost always takes centuries to be beatified and second because most beatified persons are nuns or monks, priests or bishops and seldom laymen. Catholic nuns and priests cannot marry and consequently have no children.

Kaiserin Zita was always very close to the Vatican and had her yearly audience with the pope for as long as she lived in Europe. Cardinal Groer read the funeral mass for Empress Zita in 1989 in Vienna. Next day there was a delegation of loyal admirers of the Empress who requested to the cardinal that a canonization process should start at once. The Catholic Church only receives such requests 15 years after the death's anniversary, although there are very few exceptions as Mother Theresa of Calcutta where the process started at once.



Thank you very much for these interesting infos that you gave us. I was not informed so well about those structures and detailles facts of a beatification and sanctification process.   It's interesting to see that also our new Pope Benedikt seems to be close to the Habsburg family like his predecessor was it. I have once seen a very nice picture, where Otto von Habsburg greeted the old Pope Johannes Paul II. It moved me a lot, I must say. I don't know, if also Benedikt did already arrange any meeting with Otto von Habsburg or the other relatives of the beatificated Karl I. It would be quite interesting to know.
Yes, it's somewhere amazing that this beatification process of Karl went to fast, because as you said in many cases it lasts longer, and it's indeed very moving for his family, I suppose. I also think, it's rather rare that an emperor with a family becomes a saint. I don't have too much inside knowledge about that topic, also because I am protestant and not catholic, but I also seem to remember that the most known saints are nuns and priests without descendants. So it's a special case with Karl and I suppose it must be a very special feeling for the family. But it may also create "rules" for the lives of his descendants, because as a son, grandson, or greatgrandson of a beatificated emperor one has the task to conserve and transmit special values also for future generations, which sometimes won't be easy in our times, even if it is important.   
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on September 05, 2007, 01:18:54 AM
Pope Benedict XVI will be visiting Austria September 8 - 9, 2007 He will read a mass in Mariazell. The Pope has asked his organizing committee in Vienna to invite 100 Habsburgs to that particular ceremony. It is Karl, Ottos son who is coordinating the members attending as head of the family. Family members will also have a private audience with Pope Benedict XVI. I wonder if they are going to discuss about Kaiser Karl's Sanctification. 

Karl must have mixed feelings about going to the Church in Mariazell. He got married there a few winters ago, and no direct family was present with exception to his parents and siblings. Now over 100 Habsburgs will show up at that same church!

The Vatican and the Habsburgs have still strong ties.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dmitri on September 05, 2007, 03:19:31 AM
Yes one wonders why the reigning Pontiff would have connections still with a deposed former imperial house? I guess the Habsburgs were generous financial benefactors to the Vatican for countless generations.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on September 15, 2007, 09:11:10 AM
Zita with Karl and her two older children Otto and Adélaïde :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/karlzita3.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zoca.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zit.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on September 15, 2007, 09:34:49 AM
Karl :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/karluniform.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/karl.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/charles.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Rani on September 15, 2007, 02:46:16 PM
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/BE043210.jpg)






(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/HU062383.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/U1067806.jpg)
 The Archbishop of Graz, Ferdinand Von Palikowski, left, baptizes the twin daughters of Otto Von Hapsburg, pretender to the Austrian throne. The former Empress Zita (glasses, center background) holds Monica while the Duchess of Saxony-Meiningen (center, foreground) holds baby Michaela. Otto Von Hapsburg (right) watches the ceremony while his one-year-old daughter, Andrea Maria, sits in his arms.


(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/0000226598-015.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/0000210091-010.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/0000199421-001.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/0000196843-019.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dmitri on September 16, 2007, 12:27:51 AM
Zita always seems to have been the stronger of the two physically. Karl never appeared to be terribly robust in health.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on September 16, 2007, 08:41:21 AM
She was always so dignified and so royal in her appearances while remaining so simple and natural ! Zita took really the port and the form of a great sovereign !
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 11, 2007, 10:51:43 AM
Zita during the 1916's coronation in photo and portrait :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1916c.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zc1916.jpg)

Portrait of Zita by Angeli :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/angeli.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2007, 08:05:17 PM
Lovely with pearls !
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 16, 2007, 11:43:09 AM
Lovely with pearls !

Nothing clothed Zita. She was the kind of woman who could wear while remaining always elegant.

It must be said that the fashion of the time her particularly well suited and even dressed very simply, Zita was majestic !
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess of Cupertino on November 29, 2007, 09:26:51 PM
Hi,

I'm a new member here. I have a question regarding imperial coronation. It seems Emperor Karl and Empress Zita were only crowned in Hungary. Why weren't they crowned in Vienna? Was there usually an imperial coronation for the Austrian monarchs?

thanks.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Greenowl on December 02, 2007, 04:33:41 PM
Hi Princess of Cupertino! That is a good question and one to which I unfortunately don't know the answer. As far as I can remember, Franz-Joseph was not "formally" crowned as Emperor of Austria either. As a result of the revolution of 1848 the Imperial family had fled Vienna to the relative safety of Olomuc (Olmuetz) in Moravia. Prince Schwartzenberg and Archduchess Sophie became convinced that the only way to save the Empire was to get Emperor Ferdinand to abdicate and his brother, Archduke Franz-Karl, to renounce his right to the throne, and to name the 18 year old Franz-Joseph as Emperor. By coincidence, that took place on this day (2nd. December) 159 years ago at eight o'clock in the morning in the palace of the Bishop of Olmuetz. Emperor Ferdinand read the act of abdication and his nephew, Franz-Joseph, became the new Emperor.

The Hungarian coronation was different, in that it was part of the "deal" negotiated in the so-called "Hungarian Compromise" of 1867.

Hopefully somebody will be able to shed more light on this question.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Norbert on December 30, 2007, 11:22:54 AM
When Emperor Franz II changed his title  to Emperor of Austria he did not use the occaion for a coronation. However it was announced that the House crown of Rudolf II would become the new hereditary Imperial Crown. The only time it was worn was for the 1830 portrait painted by von Amerling. A lightweight copy was created in 1830 for Franz to wear at his sons coronation at Bratislava and this was melted down in 1871.
On the death of Franz the Imperial Regalia were displayed at the accession ceremony in Vienna of Ferdinand and his successors.
In 1848 there was a private investiture of Franz Josef in Olomouc Cathedral but I have no details. I suspect it was a service of thankgiving.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: dp5486 on January 24, 2008, 09:05:46 PM
Karl and Zita were accompanied into exile by a cook, a maid, and Count and Countess Hunyadi. In a contemporary newspaper article, the former Emperor mentions that they are to be joined by their tutor, governess, nurse, and his wife's companion. I'm assuming that this would be a lady in waiting to the former Empress Zita. In Imperial Twilight, three ladies in waiting are mentioned, including Countess Nora Nostitz and Countess Agnes Schonborn. I was wondering if anyone knew which of these ladies later joined the Ex-Empress as her companion. From reading Imperial Twilight I'm assuming the Countess Schonborn.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ilias_of_John on February 04, 2008, 06:57:03 PM
Mark I. Pinsky | Sentinel Staff Writer
February 1, 2008
 
 The last ruler of the Austro-Hungarian Empire moved a little closer to Roman Catholic sainthood Thursday, thanks to a Baptist woman from Kissimmee who claims the monarch's intercession saved her from metastatic breast cancer.

Emperor Karl von Habsburg, beatified by Pope John Paul II in 2004, needs a Vatican-approved miracle to be canonized, the final step to sainthood. The Central Florida woman claims she was cured of terminal cancer after she prayed to Karl of Austria to intercede with Jesus on her behalf.

The Kissimmee woman, who remains a devout Baptist, attended a Mass and ceremony at St. James Cathedral Chapel on Thursday, but she would not be identified or interviewed. Bishop Thomas Wenski, who celebrated the Mass, said the matter involved discretion rather than secrecy.

 
However, Paula Melancon, a Catholic from Baton Rouge, said after the ceremony that she had become interested in Karl while traveling with her husband in Europe. She sent the emperor's prayer cards to a number of relatives and friends, one of which found its way to Kissimmee, where the cancer sufferer was near death.

"It is an honor for our diocese to be part of something that is larger than all of us," Wenski said. "Miracles are not done for show. Jesus didn't do miracles because he was a showoff."

A judicial tribunal convened by the Diocese of Orlando and officially concluded Thursday has found that there is no medical explanation for the woman's dramatic recovery, and more than half a dozen doctors in two states -- most of them non-Catholics -- agreed.

Who is this saint-in-waiting?

Karl took the throne in 1916, during World War I, reigning as Charles I of Austria and Charles IV of Hungary. A pious Catholic who opposed the war, he was forced to abdicate in 1918, when his empire collapsed, and died of the flu in exile on the island of Madeira in 1922 at the age of 34. Among his accomplishments, Karl censored obscene materials, closed soldiers' brothels during World War I and sent the troops more chaplains. Until his death, he tried to regain the throne of Hungary.

Few argue that Karl was a political or diplomatic success as a leader.

"He was well-intentioned, but he was ineffectual," said Vladimir Solonari, a University of Central Florida history professor.

But church officials and observers of the sainthood process say that is not the issue.

"It's fair to say you have a failed emperor who is being canonized," said Bert Ghezzi of Winter Park, author of Voices of the Saints. "But the criteria are not success in the political or secular arena. The church looks at how the person behaved in a Christian way. Did they live wholly for God? He lived a holy life -- and that's what people do, except that he's a Habsburg emperor."

After Mass, the sealed findings were turned over by Wenski to Andrea Ambrosi, an Italian lawyer who is Karl's chief advocate. On the table near the documents, which were sealed with red wax, was a reliquary containing a piece of Karl's rib. The documents now go via the Vatican's diplomatic pouch to Rome and the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, where more scrutiny will follow.

Ambrosi said it is highly unusual for the person claiming the miracle to be a non-Catholic.

The 16-month process of investigating the miracle claim was a first for the Diocese of Orlando.

"We didn't have any knowledge of the process," said the Rev. Fernando Gil, the diocese's judicial vicar, a situation that required him to do "a lot of study and a lot of reading."

The doctors who testified, Gil said, "would never admit there was a miracle."

However, they could find no medical explanation for the recovery -- which is the standard Rome requires to accept the evidence. Informally, Gil served as the tribunal's "devil's advocate," a Vatican position that no longer exists.

While the medical miracles play a central role in the Church's sainthood process, so does money. Some experts say this may especially be true in Blessed Karl's case. Ambrosi, who does not work for the Vatican or any order or religious organization, said he is employed by the Habsburg family.

"You can't buy a halo, but the process for getting someone canonized takes a lot of time and effort and work to do the research," said the Rev. Tom Reese, senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University. "That costs money."

There are, he said, larger issues.

"This is the kind of canonization I don't think is terribly helpful," said Reese, a Jesuit and former editor of the magazine America. "We don't need any more kings or princes or bishops . . . We need to find saints that connect to ordinary people.








Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Learning on February 05, 2008, 10:14:15 AM
"This is the kind of canonization I don't think is terribly helpful," said Reese, a Jesuit and former editor of the magazine America. "We don't need any more kings or princes or bishops . . . We need to find saints that connect to ordinary people.


FYI, most people would consider the Jesuits and America to be fairly leftwing. So this comment is not surprising.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ilias_of_John on February 06, 2008, 05:31:34 PM
Wheels within wheels!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on March 07, 2008, 10:04:38 AM
Thanks for the last posted pictures, they are really beautiful....! Zita was such a nice and unique empress, amazing.
I always remember the article, which was written by my former history teacher and successful passionate home historian on the "Zweikaisertreffen" (meeting of two emperors: Karl I. and wife as well as Wilhelm II. and wife) in April 1917, in my hometown Bad Homburg, where she was said to have been very good in diplomatic things, even when conversations concerning a peace were not successful at the end (rather the fault of the german generals)

I got this very rare and unpublished picture of empress Zita and two of her sons, Archduke Felix on the left and Archduke Otto on the right. It is from the year 1940:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/scan.jpg)

I think this picture is very interesting, I had never seen in before. She looks so splendid there, her smile is nice...!

And the text on the back:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/scan1.jpg)

It says:

"Austrian royalty arrives here by clipper (?)

Among the many refugees from war torn Europe who have sought, a haven in the United States are also Archduke Otto, pretender to the throne of Austria-Hungary, and his family.
The last members of the family to arrive were the former empress Zita and her daughter, Archduchess Elisabeth. They were met at the La Guardia Airfield in New York by Otto and his brother Felix, who had preceded then to America.

From left to right: Archduke Felix, former empress Zita, Archduke Otto."

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on March 07, 2008, 10:06:38 AM
A pity the picture appears too small here. But to have it in normal size just click on it and download it, and then it appears bigger.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on March 10, 2008, 03:25:21 PM
"Austrian royalty arrives here by clipper (?)

You ask what a Clipper is?   "(?)"  Those where the first airplanes that could "fly" transatlantic. Those planes were Water-landing planes. Between Europe and the continent they had to make 2 to 3 stops for refueling. Those planes could not take off if the sea was rough. They where quite large at the time and could carry approximately 30 to 40 passengers.

At the time Hitler wanted to kill all the Habsburgs and they did hardly ever disclose their whereabouts. Although Archduke Otto and Archduke Felix where constantly in the newspapers for their anti Hitler activities, no one knew where they were living or staying.

The empress landed in N.Y but did not stay there because of security reasons. She stayed initially in Royalstone Massachusetts invited by Mr. and Mrs. Kelvin Bullock, stockbroker from N.Y. She was taken there by her son Archduke Felix. She stayed there 6 weeks before moving on to Quebec, Canada where she lived 9 years.

If this is the picture that was taken at La Guardia in 1940 then it is a Historic picture and moment. The Empress flew in complete secrecy between Lisbon, (Portugal) and New York. Only the family knew about it. If this is the historic picture then it is the first time that it comes to light. I have never seen it published. Congratulations. It is very good.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on March 11, 2008, 03:12:07 AM
On the backpage you can find the following text about it:


"Austrian royalty arrives here by Clipper

Among the many refugees from war torn Europe who have sought, a haven in the United States are also Archduke Otto, pretender to the throne of Austria-Hungary, and his family.
The last members of the family to arrive were the former empress Zita and her daughter, Archduchess Elisabeth. They were met at the La Guardia Airfield in New York by Otto and his brother Felix, who had preceded then to America.

From left to right: Archduke Felix, former empress Zita, Archduke Otto."
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on March 16, 2008, 09:45:30 AM
Thank You, Britt.25 for this moving picture.

Here, some photos of Karl and Zita in public apparence during the War :


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kz1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kz2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/onparade.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/salut.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on March 18, 2008, 07:11:00 AM
It's a pity with my posted picture. I just don't achieve it to get it in better quality here, it appears too little, but has such a good quality in the original....but if I find any solution I will change it.

Your pictures are nice as well, as I don't know much photos of Karl and Zita among the people etc. wonderful. They were such an amazing couple, a pity with Karl's early death.

It appears also on my picture that Zita mostly wears black. Was it her colour (simply elegant) or did she do it after her husbands death? I suppose it's the second. What do other know?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 13, 2008, 10:25:08 AM
Zita before her marriage :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_cap378.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/cap378.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_cap379.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/cap379.jpg)
Zita and Karl during engagement

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_cap372.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/cap372.jpg)
Karl and Zita just before their wedding, Schwarzau, 1911.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on April 14, 2008, 03:22:05 AM
Thanks for photos KarlandZita! :) I haven't seen first and  second one before.
But is pity, that you don't have a bit clearer version.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Mari on April 14, 2008, 06:15:12 AM
Quote
If this is the picture that was taken at La Guardia in 1940 then it is a Historic picture and moment. The Empress flew in complete secrecy between Lisbon, (Portugal) and New York. Only the family knew about it. If this is the historic picture then it is the first time that it comes to light.
Quote



Very interesting !  Newsmen in New York were often sent to the Airport to hang around and find a story. Could that have happened?  Is there any information as to who actually took the photo?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 29, 2008, 10:45:07 AM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita at various events :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_pozonyimperialvisit.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/pozonyimperialvisit.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_ottoadzia-1.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ottoadzia-1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_ottozitaadelheidvisitregimentartill.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ottozitaadelheidvisitregimentartill.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_zitka.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitka.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_couple1-1.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/couple1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on April 29, 2008, 11:05:38 AM
Various portraits of Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_zita17.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zita17.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_kai.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kai.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_zit-1.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zit-1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_zitkiralyne.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitkiralyne.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on May 14, 2008, 11:01:44 AM
Thank you KarlandZita for the pictures. Can you post them a bit bigger? Tku
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on May 17, 2008, 10:18:02 AM
Thank you KarlandZita for the pictures. Can you post them a bit bigger? Tku

Dear Maximilano,

You can click on every pic for see them bigger.

Friendships.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on May 18, 2008, 03:14:16 AM
Yes, simply click on them and they appear very nicely. I suppose the little boy on the pictures must be Archduke Otto. It's simply not to believe that somebody, who still knew those old times is still living in our modern world today. It's more than fascinating!
Thank you for the nice pictures. I have never seen them.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Learning on May 18, 2008, 07:50:53 AM
It's my understanding that when the revolution broke out basically no one rose up to support Karl. I've always found this odd. Why were there no groups supporting the monarchy?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on May 18, 2008, 09:23:15 AM
Yes, simply click on them and they appear very nicely. I suppose the little boy on the pictures must be Archduke Otto. It's simply not to believe that somebody, who still knew those old times is still living in our modern world today. It's more than fascinating!
Thank you for the nice pictures. I have never seen them.


Otto, who was born in 1912 is, to my knowledge, the last representative of the older generation who lived at the beginning of XXème century.

He seems to have inherited his extraordinary longevity of his mother who died at 97 years although he currently has 96.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on July 14, 2008, 12:22:50 PM
Formal poses of the new Empress of Austria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_prof.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/prof.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_kaiserinzia.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaiserinzia.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_colour.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/colour.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/th_zitakaiserin.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitakaiserin.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on September 18, 2008, 02:29:12 PM
Two unpublished photos of Zita at the coronation of 1916 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/Zita11.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1916b.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Norbert on September 19, 2008, 04:33:20 AM
Sadly the crown was stolen by a trusted servant as they left Austria. Where did The Empress live in Canada please?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Vecchiolarry on September 19, 2008, 10:10:06 AM
Hi Norbert,

The Empress lived in Quebec City and was often a guest for tea at The Citadel there with the Earl and Countess of Athlone, who were Governor-General and First Lady of Canada at the time.
She also visited Quebec City in 1954 and with the Cardinal Archbishop of Quebec, toured St. Patrick's School for Boys, where I met her briefly.  I told her that I had an aunt named Zita, named after her - she seemed quite pleased!!

Larry
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on September 19, 2008, 02:38:34 PM
Hi Norbert,

The Empress lived in Quebec City and was often a guest for tea at The Citadel there with the Earl and Countess of Athlone, who were Governor-General and First Lady of Canada at the time.
She also visited Quebec City in 1954 and with the Cardinal Archbishop of Quebec, toured St. Patrick's School for Boys, where I met her briefly.  I told her that I had an aunt named Zita, named after her - she seemed quite pleased!!

Larry

Amazing that you met her personally! Did she make good impression on you, as a person?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Vecchiolarry on September 19, 2008, 06:40:01 PM
Hi,

Yes, the Empress Zita did make a good impression on all of us boys.  We were told that it was not necessary to bow but I did and about a half dozen of us did and she 'noticed approvingly'...  She spoke to most of us and was presented with some spring flowers by the Monseigneur of the school.

She was a slight woman, not as robust as some of her photos show.  She wore a long black dress with black lace attached and a small strand of pearls.  She had a golden bow brooch with an upside-down watch attached;  she said it was a gift from the Pope, although which one I don't know.

She only stayed about a half hour.

I had actually forgotten about this meeting until she died.  I felt very sad.
Anybody visiting Vienna, I always tell them to stop off at the Capuchin Monastery and say 'hello' to Zita!!  I think she'd like that...

Larry
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 13, 2008, 09:18:18 AM
Lovely portraits of Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zita-1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zia1916.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ziap.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Greenowl on December 15, 2008, 05:10:05 PM
Hi Larry!

I only discovered this thread now and was fascinated to read about your meeting with Empress Zita in 1954. Thank you so much for sharing your memories of that most interesting occasion.

Cheers,
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 28, 2008, 10:42:26 AM
Zita with German Empress Auguste Viktoria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitadon.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitadona-1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaturquie-1.jpg)
Empress Zita to visit Turkey in 1918

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/sofia.jpg)
Zita Visiting Sofia
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on December 28, 2008, 11:19:07 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/sofia.jpg)
Zita Visiting Sofia


Au she visited my city... Which year?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on December 29, 2008, 01:09:44 PM
Indeed nice pictures! I am also curious, when Zita and Karl were in Sofia.
I would love to go there too...havent been there for ages...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on December 29, 2008, 02:54:42 PM
Indeed nice pictures! I am also curious, when Zita and Karl were in Sofia.
I would love to go there too...havent been there for ages...

Greetings from Sofia :D:D
It's little bit snowing here and it's cold but Sofia is  beautiful as always :D I'm so glad people like the City...

Yep. To visit "Foxy" and Eleanore...

Which year?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on December 30, 2008, 02:22:13 PM
I would love to visit Russia again.... It's a shame to be half russian and to be on 3000 km far from Russia..... Did Zita went to Russia?Are there photos?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on January 03, 2009, 01:24:15 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/sofia.jpg)
Zita Visiting Sofia


Au she visited my city... Which year?

Sorry for my late answer. In 1918, when she and her husband Kaiser Karl I visited also Turkey
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on January 03, 2009, 01:46:56 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/sofia.jpg)
Zita Visiting Sofia


Au she visited my city... Which year?

Sorry for my late answer. In 1918, when she and her husband Kaiser Karl I visited also Turkey

Dark year for me but thanks for the info...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Greenowl on January 04, 2009, 08:06:22 AM
Nice postcard. He looked tired while she was still fresh and energetic...

Is there any reason why Prince Kyrill may have looked tired?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on January 24, 2009, 10:50:07 AM
Empress Zita, january 1917 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/january1917.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 26, 2009, 04:57:32 AM
Hungary coronation
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/charlesI3294940.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Doraprincess on January 26, 2009, 02:35:24 PM
Hungary coronation
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/charlesI3294940.jpg)

Our last king and queen. 'Our' because I'm hungarian :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 26, 2009, 02:43:44 PM
Our last king and queen. "Our" because I´m Czech :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Lucien on February 02, 2009, 02:37:46 AM
Zita's funeral,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HIzNlzwSv8&feature=related

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on February 07, 2009, 08:05:13 AM
Three new photos of youth of Zita:

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ziasiblings.jpg)
At the extreme right, front, with her brothers and sisters Sixte, Adelaide, Franzisca and Xavier

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitafranziska.jpg)
With her sister Franzisca, wearing the uniform of the inmates of the convent of Zangberg

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/marieannunziateelisabethzita.jpg)
On the right, in the company of Archduchesses Maria Annunziata and Elisabeth in Franzensbad
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on February 07, 2009, 10:24:38 AM
To me Zita was a beauty even in her childhood....Thank you for the photos
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on February 07, 2009, 11:08:05 AM
Yes, Zita was very beautiful in a family where we did not speak much of these things.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on February 17, 2009, 10:20:57 AM
Photo of Zita with Charles at their engagement time :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ziakarl.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 17, 2009, 11:01:37 AM
I wonder who were the two ladies facing them in the carriage.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on February 18, 2009, 03:01:41 AM
Three new photos of youth of Zita:

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ziasiblings.jpg)
At the extreme right, front, with her brothers and sisters Sixte, Adelaide, Franzisca and Xavier

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitafranziska.jpg)
With her sister Franzisca, wearing the uniform of the inmates of the convent of Zangberg

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/marieannunziateelisabethzita.jpg)
On the right, in the company of Archduchesses Maria Annunziata and Elisabeth in Franzensbad

Beautiful pictures!!! Thanks for sharing! ;)

Who were the two ladies? Maybe their mothers, Maria Josepha and Maria Antonia. They were on their engagement, weren't they?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Svetabel on February 18, 2009, 01:19:05 PM

Who were the two ladies? Maybe their mothers, Maria Josepha and Maria Antonia. They were on their engagement, weren't they?

No, they are Archduchesses Elizabeth Amalia and Maria Annunziata, daughters of Archduke Karl Ludwig.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on February 18, 2009, 02:57:32 PM

I am adding some with little Otto:

(http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/lea81z/Otto3.jpg)

(http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/lea81z/Otto.jpg)

(http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/lea81z/Otto2.jpg)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on February 18, 2009, 03:11:07 PM
I didn't know it for sure, only guessed.
Thank you for inentification. ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on February 19, 2009, 02:37:44 AM
Thanks Svetabel
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 19, 2009, 03:02:06 PM
Did Zita owned any property in her later years ?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: beladona on February 23, 2009, 03:28:22 PM
Is it known, who from the courtiers and aristocrats shared with Karl and Zita their exile years in Switzerland and Madeira?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Lucien on April 28, 2009, 10:22:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXs8W78y9O0&NR=1

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Olgasha on May 10, 2009, 08:25:27 AM

I'm searching for pictures about the baby Karl


Here you are :-)

(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7076/karlkid.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Olgasha on May 31, 2009, 03:27:52 PM
Another baby Karl
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4743/78001051.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: synnadene on May 31, 2009, 03:57:57 PM

Thanks a lot Aglaya, he is the cutest :-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: amelia on June 04, 2009, 12:52:03 PM
Does anyone know if the Austrian Government has any plans to bring the body of Emperor Karl to Austrai? It is still in Madeira island, Portugal. Amelia
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on June 04, 2009, 05:45:26 PM
Does anyone know if the Austrian Government has any plans to bring the body of Emperor Karl to Austria? It is still in Madeira island, Portugal. Amelia

It is not up to the Government to bring back Emperor Charles, it is up to the family.

Once the process of sanctification is over, he will most probably be brought to the Kapuzinergruft

Kaiser Karl, as emperor of Austria in 1917 financed the widening of the burial site so that all his 8 children wife and himself could fit in the Kapuziner Gruft. The first of the children to die was Archduchess Adelheit (1971) who loved Austria but certainly not the Kapuziner Gruft. She expressly refused to be buried there. Archduke Robert was the same. He really did not like the burial site full with all those tourists so he requested to be sent to rest in Peace in Muri Switzerland where the second largest burial sites of the Habsburgs is found. This is in a convent and is not open to the public. Archduchess Xenia and Anne Eugenie are also there, together with Xenia’s son Johannes. Eventually Archduke Felix and Archduke Rudolf will be set to rest in Muri together with their defunct wifes.

Archduke Carl Ludwig had a special attachment to the Kapuziner Gruft and was his express wish to be there.

Archduke Otto will be sent to the Kapuziner Gruft together with Archduchess Regina.

Muri's burial site is also quite full and will not accommodate all 33 grand children of Kaiser Karl and Kaiserin Zita. They will have to rest in peace somewhere else.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 05, 2009, 01:31:23 AM
Archduke Otto will be sent to the Kapuziner Gruft together with Archduchess Regina.

Did he say that he will be laid to rest in the Kaisergruft? Last year I saw a documentary about the Kaisergruft. In his interview Otto said that he thought about his future burial place, but he didn't give an explicit answer.

Anyway, Otto is still alive and so we shouldn't talk about what is happening with him after his death ...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 06, 2009, 10:05:46 AM
(http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/43516/2883662280101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2883662280101857556WhTbzz)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 06, 2009, 10:07:52 AM
Emperor Karl I with Otto.

(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/42332/2347043410101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2347043410101857556RrABsa)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 06, 2009, 10:13:59 AM
(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/42185/2258511470101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2258511470101857556uWDIbP)

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 06, 2009, 10:15:40 AM
Emperor Karl I in Hungarian uniform.

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/42824/2752782350101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2752782350101857556thwVDv)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 07, 2009, 09:18:50 AM
(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/41086/2832943960101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2832943960101857556vlJkSr)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 10, 2009, 08:16:26 AM
Emperor Karl I and Kronprinz Otto.

(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/45251/2622059520101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2622059520101857556thTreA)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 12, 2009, 07:39:03 AM
The website dedicated to the Beatification and Canonization of Emperor Karl I of Austria:

 http://www.emperorcharles.org/English/index.shtml
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 18, 2009, 11:40:10 AM
(http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/44366/2020416700101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2020416700101857556ZsBkpj)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 20, 2009, 02:40:14 PM
Karel and Otto

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/marked/00802232.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 20, 2009, 02:56:02 PM
courtesy of the ONB

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2emjrk6.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 21, 2009, 06:06:42 AM
Karl and Zita.

(http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/43830/2544036240101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2544036240101857556PNurke)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on June 22, 2009, 10:39:18 AM
Engagement picture of Karl and Zita in 1911 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/karlzitaansco.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on June 22, 2009, 10:44:21 AM
Karl, Zita, Otto and Adélaide in Bratislava, 1918 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zotc.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/brztislava1918.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/1918.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ziotkar.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 22, 2009, 11:24:17 AM
Great photos!...all completely new for me!

A portrait of Emperor Karl I

(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/45505/2005341900101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2005341900101857556cBwmcy)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on June 23, 2009, 12:51:46 AM
This one is new to me from their engagement photoseries. Thanks!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 23, 2009, 07:32:31 AM
Wish to see the whole photo (http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/images.jpg)

I have this version, it's not whole but bigger:

(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/32865/2301164740101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2301164740101857556kKrtrh)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on June 23, 2009, 08:20:49 AM
Thank you
Old Zita (http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/f/fc/Zita.jpg)
From other side on their wedding (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2154/2163765268_b1ebacb977.jpg?v=0)
Very old Zita (http://diepresse.com/images/uploads/7/8/c/460684/thumbDi_zita20090313120559.jpg)
I forgot if that one is posted...Sorry if it is (http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/hw_karl_01.jpg)
The Empress and her husband in 1921 (http://www.andrewcusack.com/net/wp-content/uploads/karlmassatt.jpg)
Zita again with Felix(From Flickr) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsfujita/2269044470/)
Karl And Zita Comming Out (http://www.andrewcusack.com/kfeast3.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on June 23, 2009, 11:38:15 AM
Thank you
Old Zita (http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/f/fc/Zita.jpg)
From other side on their wedding (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2154/2163765268_b1ebacb977.jpg?v=0)
Very old Zita (http://diepresse.com/images/uploads/7/8/c/460684/thumbDi_zita20090313120559.jpg)
I forgot if that one is posted...Sorry if it is (http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/hw_karl_01.jpg)
The Empress and her husband in 1921 (http://www.andrewcusack.com/net/wp-content/uploads/karlmassatt.jpg)
Zita again with Felix(From Flickr) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsfujita/2269044470/)
Karl And Zita Comming Out (http://www.andrewcusack.com/kfeast3.jpg)

On first photo is Zita with Adelheid?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Zukunftsseele on June 23, 2009, 12:19:33 PM

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/zita2.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 23, 2009, 12:24:38 PM
Finally I can see the whole photo!  :), it's definitely better than the version that I have posted before, thank you very much!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on June 23, 2009, 12:41:09 PM
WOW thanks

@Princess Susan
It's wasn't labeled but i would also like to know
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Zukunftsseele on June 24, 2009, 09:17:36 AM
You're welcome.  :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Greenowl on June 24, 2009, 10:27:34 AM
Zita and Baby (http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/2276896508_3d14836541.jpg)


Sorry, I meant this pics.

Hi Princess Susan,

yes, the baby in the photo is definitely Archduchess Adelheid. I am pretty sure, as the caption on the photo reads "Archduchess Zita and her daughter".... Zita only had one daughter when she was an Archduchess and that was Adelheid. Her two younger daughters (Charlotte and Elisabeth) were born when she was an (ex-) Empress.

Cheers,
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on June 24, 2009, 01:55:22 PM
Yes and i'm pretty sure the year is 1914 in case that she have other photos from that session...Like that one(which is my favourite and first photo of her i've ever saw):
From Wikipedia (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Zita(1892).jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Princess Susan on June 25, 2009, 12:38:43 AM
Zita and Baby (http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/2276896508_3d14836541.jpg)


Sorry, I meant this pics.

Hi Princess Susan,

yes, the baby in the photo is definitely Archduchess Adelheid. I am pretty sure, as the caption on the photo reads "Archduchess Zita and her daughter".... Zita only had one daughter when she was an Archduchess and that was Adelheid. Her two younger daughters (Charlotte and Elisabeth) were born when she was an (ex-) Empress.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

Thanks Greenowl for confirmation! I assumed that, but wasn't sure with date of taken. Yes, she had other two daughters as an ex- Empress.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 02, 2009, 02:15:39 PM
(http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/41583/2877716940101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2877716940101857556qIdCmt)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Zukunftsseele on July 02, 2009, 03:39:43 PM
Karl and Zita.

(http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/43830/2544036240101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2544036240101857556PNurke)

What a smile! That has to be one of my favorite pictures of the couple. Thank you so much for sharing this photo with us, RomanovsFan4Ever!


Pictures showing 'old' Zita:



(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/feigl_zita.jpg)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/fig39.jpg)


Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 02, 2009, 03:54:43 PM
What a smile! That has to be one of my favorite pictures of the couple. Thank you so much for sharing this photo with us, RomanovsFan4Ever!

You're welcome!...and what a coincidence!, I found the full version of it right now!  :)

(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/3997/2036362350101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2036362350101857556NOZyzM)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 04, 2009, 12:43:57 PM
(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/45003/2557785680101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2557785680101857556ptwQqj)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 06, 2009, 07:44:34 PM
Amazing pothos :-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 06, 2009, 07:50:06 PM
Kids of Karl and Zita in exile


(http://i28.tinypic.com/210lpie.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 07, 2009, 07:54:14 AM
Kids of Karl and Zita in exile

Very beautiful photo, thank you!

Emperor Karl I

(http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/44021/2915810020101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2915810020101857556DQnLWJ)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 07, 2009, 12:03:03 PM
Thank you! I like the one you posted, I d like to colorize it ;-)


Otto in exile (spain)

(http://i29.tinypic.com/9ar04x.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 07, 2009, 04:59:49 PM
Great photo again!  :)

A couple more of Kaiser Karl I
There is the full version of this one somewhere I'm sure, but unfortunately I've noticed that I don't have it.
(http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/43519/2927294610101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2927294610101857556ofxCXe)
(http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/37209/2763476510101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2763476510101857556oUQxoT)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 18, 2009, 10:14:48 AM
Thank you very much for all the photos, they're very interesting and also
very beautiful :-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on July 19, 2009, 12:08:19 PM
The Empress with officers :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/dse.jpg)

Zita's dress is beautiful !
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Zukunftsseele on July 24, 2009, 09:52:42 AM
Indeed, it is. Thanks for posting the photo.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 27, 2009, 10:46:25 AM
Another web site dedicated to the beatification of Emperor Karl I of Austria, here you go: http://www.smom-za.org/saints/charles.htm
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: royalboy202 on August 01, 2009, 02:21:00 AM
here is a video of Karl's and Zita's wedding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whDQfFyoGEE
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 01, 2009, 03:59:27 AM
Thank you very much for the wonderful video royalboy202!  :), I was looking for a video of the wedding of Karl I and Zita in a good quality.
That video is from the Italian historical archive of the LUCE institute, founded in 1924, maybe they have other videos of Karl and Zita on their website.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Zukunftsseele on August 01, 2009, 04:37:53 AM
Oh, that video is great! Thanks for sharing it with us.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 03, 2009, 02:28:00 PM
Emperor Karl I in Cortina D'Ampezzo (Now Italy, region of Veneto).

(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/25609/2160096890101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2160096890101857556RisBpJ)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 03, 2009, 05:23:02 PM
(http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/31793/2299668670101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2299668670101857556ZitWte)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 09, 2009, 01:17:10 PM
A video about Blessed Karl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYiDt0it_ko
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: britt.25 on August 12, 2009, 04:25:28 AM
I remember, when I was in Vienna there was a very pretty paiting of Karl I. of Austria in one church, unfortuntely I can't remember the church at the moment, but maybe any other knows it.
I made a photo of the painting at that time, and I am going to post it next time, or perhaps the others already know it!?

Thanks for the other great pictures of the blessed emperor! :)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Lucien on August 12, 2009, 11:46:16 AM
TM King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia,on a visit to Madeira by invitation of the Portuguese Presidential couple two weeks ago,visited the tomb of  Emperor Karl:

http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/nr01/?cat=40

courtesy Regine,N & R.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 19, 2009, 08:32:02 AM
Kaiser Karl decorates soldiers at the front during the WWI

(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/43234/2349332620101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2349332620101857556eEUkKM)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: mardam on August 19, 2009, 09:03:08 AM
I remember, when I was in Vienna there was a very pretty paiting of Karl I. of Austria in one church, unfortuntely I can't remember the church at the moment, but maybe any other knows it.
I made a photo of the painting at that time, and I am going to post it next time, or perhaps the others already know it!?


Do you mean the Augustinerkirche ?
[/url]http://www.royaltyguide.nl/countries/austria/vienna/augustinerkiche.htm
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 19, 2009, 09:26:30 AM
Unfortunately I missed this event:

(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/43180/2968769780101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2968769780101857556leUhwu)

Translation: Solemn mass in the recurrence of the 87 anniversary of the death of Blessed Karl of Austria, saturday, 21 March 2009, in Trieste - Church of Montuzza....
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 19, 2009, 10:08:31 AM
(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/43497/2462140320101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2462140320101857556hQxQyl)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 19, 2009, 10:32:24 AM
Kaiser Karl of Austria in Moena (now in Trentino - Alto Adige, Italy).

(http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/44796/2822272160101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2822272160101857556BWBrlc)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 19, 2009, 03:15:20 PM
Another one during the WWI

(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/44898/2515703000101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2515703000101857556ACNRKW)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 20, 2009, 12:35:55 PM
What beautiful images, specially one of the firsts, the one that appears three different generations together,
and is dated in 1915, is the oldest one the Emperor Franz Joseph? Thank you for posting them
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 20, 2009, 02:16:17 PM
is the oldest one the Emperor Franz Joseph? Thank you for posting them

You're welcome!  :)

Yes, of course Emperor Franz Joseph was the oldest, he died in 1916, aged 86 years old, in 1916 Emperor Karl was just 27 years old if I'm not wrong.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 20, 2009, 04:09:40 PM
Miracle attributed to Blessed Karl: http://norumbega.co.uk/2008/04/14/blessed-charles/
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 21, 2009, 12:07:40 PM
Thank you for the information, in 1916 Karl was 29, because he was born in 1887 ;-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 21, 2009, 01:49:09 PM
Thank you for the information, in 1916 Karl was 29, because he was born in 1887 ;-)

Exactly!...thank you for the correction!  ;)

An article about Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita: http://catholicism.org/karl-hapsburg.html
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 22, 2009, 01:15:12 PM
Thank you for the information, in 1916 Karl was 29, because he was born in 1887 ;-)

Exactly!...thank you for the correction!  ;)

An article about Emperor Karl I and Empress Zita: http://catholicism.org/karl-hapsburg.html

You're welcome and thanks for the link :-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on August 29, 2009, 06:46:55 PM
Greetings all, this is my first post here. 

Something I've always wondered about:  Both times Karl tried to regain the Hungarian throne, the reason Admiral Horthy gave for refusing to hand over the crown because the Little Entente would have attacked Hungary.  I don't think Horthy was bluffing, and I don't think he was power hungry himself (he didn't really act like it, as far as I know.)  So it seems that Horthy's fear was a genuine one. 

Given that Karl did not start the war, and also given that he was the only one to actively tried to stop it, it was obvious that Karl was not the type to go off and attack other nations.  He would have posed no threat to his neighbours. 

So, why were they so hostile?  Was it general anti-Habsburgism?  Latent anti-monarchism springing from socialism?  Something else?  A combination of all of the above?  It is a bit of a mystery to me. 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on August 29, 2009, 06:51:21 PM
Greetings, this is my second post in the Alexander Palace.  I have a question about the Imperial family in Madeira, and I hope this is the right thread to post it on. 

I have read that they had three or four servants living with them in Madeira:  the Count and Countess Hunyadi and a couple more.   Who paid the servants if Karl & Zita were bankrupt?  Did they have any families themselves?  Whatever happened to them afterwards?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on August 29, 2009, 07:03:29 PM
I've read in passing in a few places that Zita and the children stayed in Canada for some time---Québec City I understand---and that some of the children went to school here.  When did they arrive?  When did they leave?  Any one know any other details?  (I'm in Canada, and I've not got the money to go over to Europe.  But I would love to do a "Habsburg pilgrimage" to Québec City if I can find out more details!)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on August 29, 2009, 07:08:38 PM
Hi,

I'm a new member here. I have a question regarding imperial coronation. It seems Emperor Karl and Empress Zita were only crowned in Hungary. Why weren't they crowned in Vienna? Was there usually an imperial coronation for the Austrian monarchs?

thanks.

I read that Karl didn't get crowned elsewhere for a number of reasons.  Although he wanted to, and it was his intention to eventually get crowned everywhere applicable, he

(1) not want to put the Empire through additional expenses in wartime;

(2) eventually discovered some of the oaths he would have had to take to defend various territories were contradictory because of border disputes; and probably most importantly, 

(3) he ran out of time. 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on September 02, 2009, 11:53:45 AM
(http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/31662/2784651960101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2784651960101857556TfHxHi)

Portrait based on the same photo
(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/45740/2110349820101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2110349820101857556cABEpO)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on September 02, 2009, 12:33:56 PM
(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/33976/2576575180101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2576575180101857556srYuNr)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 07, 2009, 11:08:53 AM
Did you color the last one? It's really nice
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on September 07, 2009, 01:18:57 PM
Did you color the last one? It's really nice

No, I didn't colored it, actually I can't decide if this is a colored photo or a portrait...however there is the same picture on the cover of the book that I'm reading right now... http://www.identitanazionale.it/carlo.jpg
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 07, 2009, 02:04:04 PM
i think its a handtinted picture ;)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: CountessKate on September 09, 2009, 09:03:07 AM
The Little Entente comprised Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Romania, and large chunks of the first two nations had been carved out of the Austrian Empire.  Their inhabitants had never been fans of the Austrian rule and regardless of actual personalities, the Habsburgs appeared in a negative light to many of their former subjects, of the Kingdom of Bohemia or states such as Bosnia Herzegovina, for example.  France, no friend to the Habsburgs, had backed the formation of the Little Entente, which was intent on preserving its individual nations' sovereign status and opposing any hint of Habsburg monarchical ambitions.  Karl had a hereditary claim to the Kingdom of Bohemia and former states under the Austrian Empire and the LE could well have seen in a new Hungarian Habsburg monarch a nation's excuse for doing a bit of land-grabbing from its neighbours - whether or not Karl wanted it.  WWI had seen many rulers fail to check national ambitions - no one thought of the Emperors Franz Josef or Nicholas II as being rabid warmongers for example, but they were propelled to war nevertheless - and Karl's political potential may well have appeared far too threatening to the LE and its backers despite his obvious personal lack of desire for conquest.   So really, Karl's personality had nothing to do with the fears and aims of the Little Entente, which were basically focused on his imperial name.  But his failure to grasp the realpolitik of this very complex and volatile situation would have been another reason for Horthy to decline to back such a sadly naive Habsburg.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on September 12, 2009, 08:51:06 AM
That makes a lot of sense----thanks for answering!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on September 25, 2009, 11:43:12 AM
I tried to find detailed informations about the time that Zita and her children spent in Québec, but unfortunately I haven't found nothing of satisfactory, I just know that they arrived in New York on july 27, 1940.

They lived for a time in Tuxedo park, in Suffern, NY, and after they moved to Québec.

Zita decided to come back in Europe in 1952.

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on September 26, 2009, 01:48:55 PM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita inspecting a flag during the War :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaz1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaz2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaz3.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaz4.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaz5.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaz7.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 26, 2009, 03:40:26 PM
Do you have some images (paintings &/or photos) about young Karl and Zita?
You know after of becoming Emperors of Austria Hungary
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on September 27, 2009, 05:51:07 AM
There are some photos of young Karl in the previous pages, take a look to Aglaya's posts #167 and 169...and also, I'd like to see some photos of young Zita...

Or do you mean photos of their adolescence?...I will try to find some...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on October 02, 2009, 12:14:38 PM
Here are some photos of young Karl I could find:

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/mjc.jpg)
With his mother Maria Josepha, around 1892

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/cfj.jpg)
With the Emperor Franz Joseph at Cannes in 1894

Young man :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/carlfranz.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/karluniform.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 02, 2009, 12:28:26 PM
Thank you very much KarlandZita, he was a lovely boy and a very handsome young man ;-)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Madame-Sisi on October 02, 2009, 02:47:26 PM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita inspecting a flag during the War :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/kaz5.jpg)


i think this picture is sooo funny... karl looks like hmm yeah its nice from this sight 2 haha
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on October 03, 2009, 04:57:44 AM
That's why I wanted to post it with the others because I also found very amusing. Karl seems so interested in what he presents, so concentrated and so impregnated with his task that seems so trivial but which was part of being a sovereign.

One can also observe the similar interest from Zita.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on October 04, 2009, 07:31:39 AM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita inspecting a flag during the War :

Do you know where I can find that video?, I know that it's from the Istituto Luce but I can't find it on their web site, thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on October 04, 2009, 09:52:08 AM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita inspecting a flag during the War :

Do you know where I can find that video?, I know that it's from the Istituto Luce but I can't find it on their web site, thank you in advance.

This video is on Youtube.com. It has two distinct sequences. I struggled to find it and clicking from link to link I could find it.

Here's the direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWgXy0QB2fw&feature=related

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on October 04, 2009, 10:04:10 AM
Thank you!...so it is the visit of Emperor Karl and Empress Zita in Bolzano, I have seen some photos of that day but this is the first time that I see a video of it.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: aor on October 04, 2009, 10:54:24 AM
Those are some amazing videos. Thank you!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Rani on October 04, 2009, 03:25:58 PM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita inspecting a flag during the War :

Do you know where I can find that video?, I know that it's from the Istituto Luce but I can't find it on their web site, thank you in advance.

This video is on Youtube.com. It has two distinct sequences. I struggled to find it and clicking from link to link I could find it.

Here's the direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWgXy0QB2fw&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whDQfFyoGEE

The wedding

On 02:01, I think it is Franz Joseph in Bavaria, what do you think?

You can see also Miguel Braganza and Marie Valerie (she has a nice smiling)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Madame-Sisi on October 04, 2009, 03:56:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWgXy0QB2fw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWgXy0QB2fw)

here the movie about the pictures karlandzita posted..
it looks so cool those old movies...and funny 2 see them like in real life and not from pictures or portraits...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on October 07, 2009, 03:04:51 PM
Karl and Zita in Insbruck :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/insbruck.jpg)

Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitaum1915.jpg)

Zita, Charles, Otto and Adelaide :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zzk.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 07, 2009, 06:52:46 PM
Zita looks very eloegant in that photos, this dress is lovely and the hat too. Thank you ;-)
In the second one, who gave her the flowers?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 08, 2009, 03:33:45 PM
Do you have photos of Zita and her children at Canada??
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: newfan on October 08, 2009, 04:55:34 PM
There is a book about her life in Canada..cant remember the titel now
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: newfan on October 08, 2009, 04:58:18 PM
 Title Zita, the last empress of Austria: the story of Her Imperial and Royal Majesty Zita of Habsburg-Lorraine and her sojourn in Québec City, 1940-1950
Author Leo J. Hammerschmid
Publisher Meridian Press, 1989
ISBN 0929058054, 9780929058054
Length 352 pages
 
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on October 08, 2009, 07:00:14 PM
I read the book quite some time ago. According to Mr. Leo Hammerschmidt's book she lived in a type of convent, or a house provided by the Bishop of Quebec. Outside of Quebec City, a suburb called Syllery.

Only 2 of her sons went to the University there. “Universite de Laval a Quebec”. It was Archduke Carl Ludwig and Archduke Rudolf.

She lived there 9 years, the long and cold winters made that she requested to go further south. Then she moved close to N.Y.
The book is worth reading but Mr. Hammerschnid is not an historian and has certain interpretations that need not be 100% correct. None the less he makes a recollection of interviews from people who had contact with the Empress during that time and wrote down his impressions.  It is evident that Mr. Hammerschmidt is a whole hearted monarchist.

His book is the only written recollection that I know of from the time the Empress lived in Canada.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on October 11, 2009, 11:28:42 AM
Do you have photos of Zita and her children at Canada??

Unfortunately I haven't seen photos of Zita and her children in Canada...

maybe there are some in the last empress of Austria: the story of Her Imperial and Royal Majesty Zita of Habsburg-Lorraine and her sojourn in Québec City, 1940-1950 ?, Maximilano?...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on October 30, 2009, 11:08:49 AM
Emperor Karl and Empress Zita with (please, correct me if I'm wrong) Otto, Adelheid and Robert.

(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/34401/2093785110101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2093785110101857556RCVssx)

Emperor Karl with soldiers at the front.

(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/43884/2740046340101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2740046340101857556wPTbjA)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on October 31, 2009, 05:38:04 AM
Someone has he the book  "Das Familienalbum  von Kaiser Karl und Kaiserin Zita" ? I would buy it but I do not know if he has a lot of unpublished photos of Karl and Zita, including their respective youth. Who do I contact about this ? Thank you in advance for the answer.

Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on October 31, 2009, 07:39:17 AM
I ordered that book right today, unfortunately I don't know if it has much of unpublished photos and I'm not sure if I will receive it, since it's not easily available here in Italy. :- (
However, I've ordered the book on this Italian web site: http://www.libreriauniversitaria.it/das-familienalbum-von-kaiser-karl/buch/9783800036264
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric VdV on October 31, 2009, 05:55:52 PM
Someone has he the book  "Das Familienalbum  von Kaiser Karl und Kaiserin Zita" ? I would buy it but I do not know if he has a lot of unpublished photos of Karl and Zita, including their respective youth. Who do I contact about this ? Thank you in advance for the answer.


The book is very, very interesting. Most of the pictures I hadn't seen it elsewhere.

Eric VdV
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 01, 2009, 08:54:51 AM
Thank you to you for your responses. This book seems interesting. But is it just a photo album ?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 02, 2009, 06:59:24 AM
If I understand the word Bildbände correctly I have the impression that this should be just a photo album...but I'm not sure. :- /

Emperor Karl I
(http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/44057/2128635040101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2128635040101857556sYcFPp)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Eric VdV on November 02, 2009, 06:18:02 PM
Thank you to you for your responses. This book seems interesting. But is it just a photo album ?
Yes, it is a photo album, with some family trees, and also a few pictures on the family, siblings especially, of Empress Zita. Also lots of pictures of the previous generations of Archduke Karl Ludwig, grandfather of Emperor Karl I, and his three spouses, like his brothers.

Eric VdV
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 03, 2009, 01:20:00 PM
Thank you for the clarification. I just ordered this book. I think this is a book that absolutely must have for all fans of Karl and Zita like me. Too bad it is just published in German.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 05, 2009, 07:35:10 AM
An article from an Italian newspaper (not very new, it's from 2005 if I remember correctly).

The Relic of the "Blessed" Emperor

From today it will be kept at the church of Croce Santa, presents the descendants of Karl I of Habsburg too.

(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/45729/2259289540101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2259289540101857556janGBB)

I can translate the entire article if anyone is interested...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: amelia on November 05, 2009, 11:23:17 AM
I wonder if the Austrian Government will ever bring his remains from Madeira Island to Austria, where they belong.Amelia
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 05, 2009, 12:34:07 PM
I will not swear by this, as it has been a while since I was in Vienna,  but I think he is in the crypt with the others, including Zita. I will be back there in the spring and make sure though.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 05, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
I will correct myself, there is a memorial staute of Karl II in the crypt, his body is on the way pending the logistics. The Empress Zite is there, however
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Vecchiolarry on November 05, 2009, 01:44:23 PM
Hi Robert,

I visited the Empress Zita's tomb this September and was told that there are plans to re-patriate Charles but perhaps only after his canonization.
Apparently, the citizens of Madeira insist that his burial site still witnesses miracles and they don't want to remove him 'prematurely' (is what I was told - using that word!!)....

Larry
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 16, 2009, 08:29:52 AM
The Facebook group dedicated to Blessed Karl: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bl-Karl-von-Habsburg/13204328031
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on November 19, 2009, 07:33:20 PM
Something I've always wondered about:  Both times Karl tried to regain the Hungarian throne, the reason Admiral Horthy gave for refusing to hand over the crown because the Little Entente would have attacked Hungary.  I don't think Horthy was bluffing, and I don't think he was power hungry himself (he didn't really act like it, as far as I know.)  So it seems that Horthy's fear was a genuine one. 


I really liked your question and Countess Kate's answer. I do not agree with all she said but it is her opinion and I respect that.  Where I most vehemently disagree is that the little entente did pose absolutely no danger of re-starting a war. As you stated Kaiser Karl was a pacifist and posed absolutely no threat to his neighbours. He loved Hungary and for that reason he tried to regain the crown twice. It was Horty's ambition to the throne and his absolute will to stay in power that made him one of the most remarkable traitors that surrounded the Kaiser.

I think that is a very interesting topic which did not take of
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on November 23, 2009, 04:09:47 PM
It is not up to the Government to bring back Emperor Charles, it is up to the family.

Once the process of sanctification is over, he will most probably be brought to the Kapuzinergruft

Kaiser Karl, as emperor of Austria in 1917 financed the widening of the burial site so that all his 8 children wife and himself could fit in the Kapuziner Gruft. The first of the children to die was Archduchess Adelheit (1971) who loved Austria but certainly not the Kapuziner Gruft. She expressly refused to be buried there. Archduke Robert was the same. He really did not like the burial site full with all those tourists so he requested to be sent to rest in Peace in Muri Switzerland where the second largest burial sites of the Habsburgs is found. This is in a convent and is not open to the public. Archduchess Xenia and Anne Eugenie are also there, together with Xenia’s son Johannes. Eventually Archduke Felix and Archduke Rudolf will be set to rest in Muri together with their defunct wifes.

Archduke Carl Ludwig had a special attachment to the Kapuziner Gruft and was his express wish to be there.

Archduke Otto will be sent to the Kapuziner Gruft together with Archduchess Regina.

Muri's burial site is also quite full and will not accommodate all 33 grand children of Kaiser Karl and Kaiserin Zita. They will have to rest in peace somewhere else.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on November 23, 2009, 04:28:28 PM
I was told that the lady that had been miraculously saved through prayers died unexpectedly. Due to the fact that the miracle was being revised in Rom and she died the Miracle does not count. The Gebetsliga or "league of prayers" is looking at other miracles and studying new ones in order to submit a new one to be studied by the bishop, then referred from the Bishop to the Vatican.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 24, 2009, 03:39:12 AM
I was told that the lady that had been miraculously saved through prayers died unexpectedly.

Hello Maximiliano!, thanks for the interesting posts!

Are you referring to the Florida woman that had been inexplicably healed?...I hope not. :- (

Here you can read the article: http://norumbega.co.uk/2008/04/14/blessed-charles/
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Whiskers on November 27, 2009, 04:03:36 PM
There are two sources that are responsible for the repatriation of Karl's body from Madeira to Austria, and neither spoken to each other about It or have plans to bring the body of Karl back from Madeira.

As for sainthood you either believe or you don't, that's It?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on November 27, 2009, 04:04:46 PM
Karl to meet poor people :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ctking.jpg)

One of the meetings between Kaiser Karl and Kaiser Wilhelm II :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/cw.jpg)

Empress Zita visiting a hospital :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitahospital.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RealAnastasia on November 27, 2009, 10:37:40 PM
"This is the kind of canonization I don't think is terribly helpful," said Reese, a Jesuit and former editor of the magazine America. "We don't need any more kings or princes or bishops . . . We need to find saints that connect to ordinary people.


FYI, most people would consider the Jesuits and America to be fairly leftwing. So this comment is not surprising.

OooH! These Jesuits! It doesn't matter at all if a Saint comes from lower or upper classes! If smeone is really a Saint, he must be cannonized, no matter if he was so "unlucky" to have been born a royal.  ;D Before, lower classes people were rejected by upper classes. Now, it's the opposite. And...what about leting revenge aside and consider ourselves bad and god people, no matter where were we born?

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 28, 2009, 04:10:17 AM
I'm totally agree with you!, RealAnastasia.
Karl had the fortune to have been born a Royal, but his simplicity, honesty, altruism, and spirituality can't be ignored just because of his "high born".
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Vecchiolarry on November 28, 2009, 08:19:04 AM
Hi,

Wouldn't it be nice for Otto and his living siblings and their descendants to have Karl canonized while they were still alive...

I personally don't believe in all this religious hokum, but it would be a hoot to say, "Daddy is a saint!!"....   8)

Larry
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 28, 2009, 03:56:54 PM
You do not want to know how I feel about the religious hokum, Larry.
 But there is a lot of misunderstanding of what a  "saint" is. It only means "ANY" Christian, at least Catholic or Orthodox  has died in Grace and is now in the presence of god. Canonization did not even become a formal process until almost 1000ad. It originally was applied only to those who died for their faith- martyrs.  None of the early martyrs, nor apostles, were ever canonised. JPII turned it into a dime-a-dozen process.  is a delaration of honour and worthy of intercession for extraordinary acts of faith.
 BTW, the Jesuits was my order.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 29, 2009, 04:31:07 AM
Well, English it's not my native language, but if I understand the word hokum correctly, this is another manner to say sentimentality or worst nonsense, right?...

If so, can I kindly ask to not use that word anymore, thanks. :- ), unfortunately it could be offensive for believer members.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RealAnastasia on November 29, 2009, 10:37:43 PM
Unfortunately?

RealAnastasia. >:( :(
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 30, 2009, 04:02:39 AM
RealAnastasia, did I said something wrong? :- /...as I said English it's not my native language, so sometimes I have difficulties to express myself in a totally correct way...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since we were talking about miracles attributed to Emperor Karl in the previous page, here there is the story of the healing of Sister Maria Zita Gradowska (first healing attributed to Karl): http://www.emperorcharles.org/English/miracle.shtml
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on December 04, 2009, 08:35:29 PM
I think I saw some in the forum. If I find one somewhere else I will post it.

Why do you think Empress Zita chose Quebec City? It is a lovely town but not a Metropolis, like Vienna or other towns she had lived previously.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: newfan on December 04, 2009, 10:49:52 PM
I just looked at my book "Zita The last empress of Austria" and see that its sign by mr Hammerschmid and 3 other ..I think one signute is AD Rudolf..if i could i would scan it here but of course i dont know how.There is around 40 very nice pictures from Canada and ny .
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 05, 2009, 07:28:57 AM
The Imperial couple for inspection in the Tyrol :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/withpeople.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zikbis.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zitacarlvisit2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/zco.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Zita%20and%20Karl/ziksold.jpg)
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on December 08, 2009, 10:29:24 AM
It was said that Karl was in love with a Princess von Hohenlohe before Zita and that Franz Josef said to him to search for another bride...can anyone tell me who was she?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: beladona on December 09, 2009, 04:48:12 PM
It was said that Karl was in love with a Princess von Hohenlohe before Zita and that Franz Josef said to him to search for another bride...can anyone tell me who was she?

It was Bella Hohenlohe - Isabella (1891-1982), daughter of Gottfried Hohenlohe-Langenburg.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on December 09, 2009, 04:58:59 PM
Thank you,always wondered who was this Hohenohe Princess and why was she objected negatively for Archduke Karl?It seems that Hohenlohe-Langenburg family was "good enough" for the Imperial family of Germany,but not for the Habsburgs...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 10, 2009, 12:40:54 PM
In fact, I think that Francois Joseph felt that the heir, although in the second, of the Austro-Hungarian throne must marry a princess after a royal or princely house belonging to the first part of Gotha. Otherwise, Karl would have made an unfortunate marriage that could not afford the heir to the throne.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on December 14, 2009, 11:32:49 PM
Title Zita, the last empress of Austria: the story of Her Imperial and Royal Majesty Zita of Habsburg-Lorraine and her sojourn in Québec City, 1940-1950
Author Leo J. Hammerschmid
Publisher Meridian Press, 1989
ISBN 0929058054, 9780929058054
Length 352 pages

Fantastic----thank you!  I will definitely look that up!
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on December 14, 2009, 11:42:27 PM
The New Liturgical Movement writes:

"Many readers will rejoice -- fittingly on this Gaudete Sunday -- to learn that last Thursday, 10 December 2009, the Cause of Beatification of the Servant of God Zita, last Empress of Austria and wife of Blessed Emperor Charles, was solemnly opened by His Excellency Msgr. Yves Le Saux, Bishop of Le Mans, France. "

Rest of the article here:
http://networkedblogs.com/p20846877

The story has been picked up by a couple of monarchist bloggers already.  Andrew Cusack in particular has an excellent article of his own here:
http://www.andrewcusack.com/2009/12/13/zita-cause/

The Association for her Beatification is here:
http://www.beatification-imperatrice-zita.org/
It is quite new, and the information has not been translated from French yet.  But if you read French, go ahead and visit:  the material is very good. 

A good complement would be the Association for the Beatification of Karl, here:
http://www.emperorcharles.org/


Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Felix Culpa on December 14, 2009, 11:46:59 PM
It was said that Karl was in love with a Princess von Hohenlohe before Zita and that Franz Josef said to him to search for another bride...can anyone tell me who was she?

It was Bella Hohenlohe - Isabella (1891-1982), daughter of Gottfried Hohenlohe-Langenburg.

I'd not read this before----what were the circumstances?  Were they actually engaged or anything?
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on December 15, 2009, 12:09:22 AM
Archduke Charles had no choice but to marry into the Red Gotha. Borbon Parma is in the Red Gotha.

When Karl Married Zita there were very few Archdukes left.

Franz Ferdinand did marry a Countess but as she was not part of the red Gotha he made a morganatic marriage. He could accede to the throne but not his children who became the title of Furst von Hohenberg (Prince).

It was always speculated that once in the throne Franz Ferdinand being the Kaiser would revoke or annul one of the paragraphs of the 1848 constitution which referred to the marriage rules of the House of Austria. He could also change the constitution wit 66% of the votes of the Duma or parliament.

Karl was "ordered" to marry Zita, as Kaiser Franz Joseph had certain difficulties with Franz Ferdinand and wanted to make sure that Karl would marry according to the rules of the house.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: newfan on December 15, 2009, 01:05:15 AM
Felix this book can be very $$$ so try to do inerlibrary loan.I am not sure where you live but most libraries in Usa have program with other libraries.Here is a link for the book in worldcat
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/26260506
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on December 15, 2009, 04:42:41 AM
Great news!, I didn't know that the Cause of Beatification were opened on 10 December, this is a surprise for me, thank you for the links!

About the web site of the association for her Beatification, fortunately I can read French (although not perfectly), but I hope that they will open the Italian (my language) section soon.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on December 15, 2009, 04:47:30 AM
Any details about Karl and Bella?Were they seeing each other or he just had a crush on her?I know that she married Prince Alfred von Windisch-Gratez who was a cousin of Prince Otto Weriand von Windisch-Graetz who married Archduchess Elisabeth...

It seems that Franz Josef had double standards considering marriage rules...he urged Prince Otto to marry his granddaughter Elisabeth Marie and yet he was in part II(mediatized) of Gotha just like Hohenlohe-Langenburg family...and yet Karl's brother Maximilian married in palace Laxenburg Princess Franziska zu Hohenlohe-Waldenburg-Schillingsfürst,but this wasunder his brother's reign...maybe Karl remembered his own case and allowed his brother to marry a Hohenlohe princess...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Maximilano on December 15, 2009, 10:33:45 AM
It seems that Franz Josef had double standards considering marriage rules...

Absolutely no, he was a purist and followed the rules by the book. There were rules for marriage outside and inside the Donau Monarchy.  Rules were laid out at constitutional level in 1848 so that "Nobody" in principle could change them.

I said previously, changes to the constitution needed the approval of 66% of the Duma.

Franz Ferdinand disregarded the rules as heir to the throne and paid for it. Kaiser Franz Joseph did not bend the rules.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: KarlandZita on December 15, 2009, 12:27:37 PM
I am delighted to hear such an initiative. I always thought that Zita equally deserved to be beatified that Charles. It was really a holy woman who lived throughout her life with faith, determination and courage in drawing its strength and determination in support of religion.
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on December 15, 2009, 01:31:37 PM
Ok,I understand that...but did he change his will due to his granddaughters wishes and forced Prince von Windisch-Graetz into marriage?He didn't allow this when his heir Archduke Karl was in question...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: beladona on December 15, 2009, 02:49:50 PM
Ok,I understand that...but did he change his will due to his granddaughters wishes and forced Prince von Windisch-Graetz into marriage?He didn't allow this when his heir Archduke Karl was in question...

I understand what you mean, Marc, and I agree with you. But do not forget, that Elisabeth was "only" woman, but Karl was heir of the throne and his wife should be next Empress. And, in that case, Hohenlohe was not good enough. I think Franz Josef could remember problems, which has his young wife at Vienna court with her own ancestry - her grandmother (!) being "only" Arenberg...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: Marc on December 15, 2009, 03:45:42 PM
True,you got the point ;) I only thought about the fact that family rules are being much more strict towards males than females or the case with Elisabeth Marie was just an exception?Don't count other branches and their Isenburg/Hohenlohe-Bartenstein/Croy-Dulmen/Hohenlohe-Waldenburg-Schillingsfurst/Salm-Salm intermarriages until 1918...
Title: Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
Post by: beladona on December 15, 2009, 04:30:46 PM
It´s difficult to say. We are talking now about the times around 1900 when this rules was not so strictly respected as before - see the intermarriages you wrote about. Archdukes ad Archduchessess could choose to marry some members from mediatized princely families but always to catholic ones :)  I don´t think the rules were more strict towards men, I think Elisabeth Maria was a special case - she just insisted on her choice and as a beloved granddaugher of Emperor she knew that her granpa will finaly agree :). But except some marriages of Archduchesses to members of families as Salm, Hohenlohe or Isenburg, there are in fact no real morganatic marriages of any Archduchesses in 19th century (except Luisa Habsburg-Toskana) contraty to for example Archduke John (with Anna Plochl), Archduke Heinrich (to Leopoldine Hoffman) or Archduke Leopold Savator (to his prostitutes) etc....