Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Russian History => Rasputin => Topic started by: nigbil on February 18, 2005, 06:29:19 AM

Title: Yusupov Palace - Murder Site
Post by: nigbil on February 18, 2005, 06:29:19 AM
the Yusupov Palace courtyard where Rasputin was shot twice.
He was running for his life (and filled up with poison) and the first shot that hit him was half way across this courtyard. Rasputin was making for the gates. The second shot was close up to his head. He was dragged from this spot to be dumped into a canal - and the autopsy showed that he died from drowning?
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Forum Admin on February 18, 2005, 08:56:43 AM
nigbil,
thanks for showing the courtyard, as I am sure many have not seen it. Your account is the "standard" one, but is now shown to likely not be accurate. There is a LONG discussion thread here showing the details.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Valmont on February 18, 2005, 09:30:12 AM
Wow...What a fool I am. I have never wonder what the courtyard may look like.  Very interesting indeed. Thank you for posting it Nigbil
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: felix on February 18, 2005, 07:19:41 PM
N. I've been to the palace,only from the front. Is the courtyard  in the rear? It must be I remember the front as being solid.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: nigbil on February 19, 2005, 02:07:52 AM
Yes, the courtyard is at the rear. The best view, as I can remember, of the courtyard is from the formal staircase which has large windows overlooking the rear. As you said, the front forms a large block. I post this picture (as a brief aside) of the chandelier on that formal staircase as its one of the most magnificent I've ever seen.................
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Sunny on February 19, 2005, 06:37:42 AM
Nigbil, thanks so much. Have seen some of your other photographs on another thread. Hope there are more  :)

Sunny
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Laura Mabee on February 19, 2005, 08:39:03 AM
Wonderful Nigbil!
Thank you for sharing those photos!
Out of curiosity, do you feel sympathy for Rasputin?
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: nigbil on February 19, 2005, 06:09:18 PM
Well, Laura, that is one hell of a question!!

The short answer is that yes, I feel sympathy for anybody killed in that manner.

If I show a great deal of interest in his antics, its because most people at the time, contemporaries of Rasputin (and  of differing classes of society), viewed his influence as malign - witness the pamphlets freely circulating as well as the graffiti.

Now his real influence may have been exaggerated and I think that people will always argue over that. But there is no doubt that he was anti-war and that he was absent at the crucial time that war decisions were made in 1914. The Great War destroyed the Russian monarchy not to mention killing millions of people. Its very, very unlikely (but faintly possible) that between Witte and Rasputin (two unlikely bedfellows you are less likely to find!) the war could have been averted. And for me, that might have given Russia a chance to develop a consitutional monarchy and consequently avoid a civil war that killed millions and the Soviet disaster that followed.

Thus Rasputin is to me both a significant nail in the coffin of the Monarchy as well a 'player' at this significant crossroad of Russian history. Add to that, on the personal level of the Tsar and his immediate family, he, Rasputin, clearly served a beneficial role. That all totals up to a fascinating individual; love him or loath him, I don't think he can be ignored.

And lastly, as a student of the French Revolution as well (I live in France) its interesting that there are so many parallels in these two Revolutions; but there was no Rasputin at the court of Louis XIV and that makes him absolutley unique.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Laura Mabee on February 23, 2005, 01:27:53 PM
Thanks for answering. I guess overall I dislike Rasputin and what his influence did to the IF. However, I do think the way he died was barbaric, and un-ruly. Good to know your opinion  :)
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Phil_tomaselli on February 23, 2005, 01:58:19 PM
Having been party to at least some of Richard Cullen's investigations into the murder it has to be said that the courtyard is probably not the site of the shooting.

Unfortunately Richard is still (last I heard) still involved in family problems & unable to finalise his conclusions.

I'm afraid I'm not prepared to go any further (on or off the board) without his permission but will try and contact him again.

Phil Tomaselli
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Helen_Azar on February 23, 2005, 07:01:59 PM
Quote
Thanks for answering. I guess overall I dislike Rasputin and what his influence did to the IF.


Rasputin, IMHO, was by far not the most unsympathetic historical figure, if you really think about it. What did he do really? He never killed anyone, he was never cruel to anyone, the stories told about him raping women and what have you have not really been proven. There is evidence that he in fact helped a lot of people, financially and otherwise. He was a bit of a drunk and a braggart and a womanizer (consentual as far as we know), but that could probably apply to 80% of the peasants during that time. He was no better or no worse than any regular Russian peasant, except he did seem to have had some sort of special ability (no matter how you look at it) and had gotten himself involved with the IF because of Alexei's hemophilia, hence put himself out into the public arena. To say he was evil would be totally wrong. He doesn't even come close to characters like Ivan the Terrible, Stalin, Hitler, etc. who were psychopaths and megalomaniacs and basically mass murderers. He did not deserve to die in the way he did and he does not really deserve his "evil" reputation, IMO....
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: nigbil on February 24, 2005, 07:11:31 AM
I agree with Helen's views one hundred per cent.
He certainly made his mark - you either loathed him or loved him and society at the time was split along those lines, with a proponderance of the former. Many churchman initally supported him, then turned against him. In the Imperial family there were those for him and against him. Likewise in the aristocracy.

And of course so much of the dislike was about perception; people believed he influenced the IF and were jealous. He was responsible for influencing some poor political appointments but not for all. His political influence was exaggerated.

Nor did he enrich himself hugely - yes he probably took bribes but he gave much of it away and money does not appear to have been a motive.
Nigebil
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Laura Mabee on February 25, 2005, 09:47:30 AM
Quote
I dislike Rasputin and what his influence did to the IF.


I should clarify this a bit more..
I didn't mean the influence he had on the IF. I mean the influence that he put in the minds of the Russian people against the IF. :)

I don't think he was an evil man, a womanizer yes.. but not evil  
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: rudy3 on March 29, 2005, 06:27:42 AM
Actually, this is NOT the courtyard, where R was shot. He was shot in the courtyard (little garden) on the frontside (Mojka), to the left, if you are standing in front of the Yussupoff Palace. From the basement, where Yussupoff met with Rasputin, the stairs lead up, to one of the rooms and to one exit into the garden.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Richard_Cullen on March 29, 2005, 11:40:01 AM
The last post is right the picture is not of the Yusupov Palace Courtyard.  As one of the other posts states the yard where Rasputin was placed into a car and taken to the Malaya Nevka in on the Moika side of the Palace.  The yard is now a children's playground and covered unforunately in dog mess (unpleasant but true).  It is hard to visualise the yard as it was, the 6 foot high railings have gone, so have the two gateways, although if you look carefully you can see where they were.

If you stand in the centre of the playground and look towards the Moika the entrance to felix's basement rooms is on the left.  Along the wall of the palace from this door you would have found the side gates.  The main gates were in the centre, with a wooden hut to the right of them where the yard watchman spent some of his time.  The yard is almost directly opposite the police station on the other side of the Moika.

I don't know where the picture cam from but it looks a bit like the locatuion we had to use for the filming of the reconstruction because the playground was inappropriate and there were no close matches to the 'real' location.

As an aside I am now convinced death occurred in the basement.

Richard
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Laura Mabee on March 30, 2005, 05:37:25 PM
Quote
As an aside I am now convinced death occurred in the basement.


Do tell....  :)
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: nigbil on March 31, 2005, 12:38:02 AM
Yes,  :D tell more...........you tell us more and I will let you know the trials and tribulations in getting the courtyard picture................
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Richard_Cullen on March 31, 2005, 11:50:46 AM
For more you will have to wait, but there is plenty in the previous posts on this topic.

Richard
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Annie on April 13, 2005, 10:46:35 AM
I guess in a way the story of Rasputin's murder is like the tale of Anna Anderson. We will never know the entire truth of what happened since everyone is now dead. I do wonder about this fascinating subject. It must have been very interesting to have been at Felix's party that night!
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: lexi4 on April 13, 2005, 11:50:20 PM
I find the subjet of Rasputin fascinating. In high school, I was taught that he was evil. Just the prejudice of the teacher, now I am not sure what I think. He did have a lot of influence on Alexandra. But how far that influence actually extended is not clear to me. I hope this disucssion continues, I will learn more. One thing I wonder, what does the name Rasputin mean, if anything?
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: rudy3 on May 10, 2005, 01:33:16 AM
On Dec 29th 2003 some kind of memorial service, a "panikhida" was held for Rasputin. Incl. an icon of Rasputin.
(http://img171.echo.cx/img171/7458/ceremonyforras6nx.jpg)
(http://img217.echo.cx/img217/3678/rasicon2jq.jpg)
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: rudy3 on May 10, 2005, 01:36:11 AM
So sorry, the pictures came over far too big!!! Do not know how to make them smaller to post them.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Laura Mabee on May 10, 2005, 11:59:05 AM
Thanks for the picture Rudy3!
I resized and optimized your pictures, and here is the link if you want to modify your post, and post these links instead of the links you have.


Ceremony:
http://img171.echo.cx/img171/7458/ceremonyforras6nx.jpg

and Ras. Icon:
http://img217.echo.cx/img217/3678/rasicon2jq.jpg

Other then that, the picture of the "Tsar" Alexei is kind of disturbing to me, as he seemed so innocent to take on such a role. And, to point out the fact, they have him as a child holding the responsibility of the country.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Anastasia_R on May 11, 2005, 04:40:42 PM
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for posting a picture of the courtyard!I've always wondered what it looked like,and this helps me greatly!
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Johnny on June 05, 2005, 03:39:44 PM
What on Earth >:( >:( >:(
After turning a totally incompetent bunch of rulers into a holy family, are they now beatifying a schyzophrenic drunkard? I don't hate Rasputin. I don't admire him either. But if he qualifies for sainthood, then I must have missed something.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 05, 2005, 04:12:32 PM
Yes, rather bizarre is it not ?  However, ANY dead person who was Orthodox may have a memorial service. Does not mean anyone is trying to make him a saint.
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Anastasia_R on June 17, 2005, 02:25:43 PM
I'm reading The Rasputin File right now and in the first part,Radzinsky says:(quote)
"I went into the yard by the same doo which the bloodied Rasputin had fled,while trying to save himself."
-Edvard Radzinsky,THE RASPUTIN FILE,page 19,par.4

Ugh,I'd hope they aren't making him a saint,in my mind he isn't exactly the type to be canonized....
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Arleen on November 23, 2005, 02:12:07 PM
Wonderfully clear now Brian, thanks for posting it.....

A
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on January 23, 2008, 12:12:17 AM
On Dec 29th 2003 some kind of memorial service, a "panikhida" was held for Rasputin. Incl. an icon of Rasputin.
(http://img217.echo.cx/img217/3678/rasicon2jq.jpg)




Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: rudy3 on January 23, 2008, 02:49:39 AM
This second icon is pictured on the cover of a book by Tatyana Groyan: Martyr for Christ and the Tsar, Man of God Grogorii, in Russian. Moscow 2000 ISBN-587372-092-4
Title: Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
Post by: Mari on January 25, 2008, 04:39:12 AM
Very interesting!
Title: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:36:57 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin1.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin1.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:39:18 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin2.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin2.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:41:37 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin3.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin3.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:42:30 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin4.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin4.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:43:38 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin5.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin5.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:47:01 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin6.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin6.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:48:22 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin7.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin7.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:49:17 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin8.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin8.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:50:05 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin9.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin9.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:50:37 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin10.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin10.jpg
Title: Re: Yusupov palace (excursion photos)
Post by: Rasputin New on February 28, 2009, 08:51:22 AM
(http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin11.jpg)
http://rasputin-photos.narod.ru/Ekskursia/SP_Rasputin11.jpg