Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Yussupovs => Topic started by: clockworkgirl21 on February 18, 2005, 09:32:21 PM

Title: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on February 18, 2005, 09:32:21 PM
I have to admit that I can't get enough of Felix. He's my favorite outside of Tzar Nikolai's family. Even though he used people and probably didn't care about anyone's feelings, and lied a lot, I can't help but like him.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Annie on February 19, 2005, 05:09:05 PM
I'm a huge Felix fan!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: bluetoria on February 19, 2005, 06:21:36 PM
I do!! I think he's wonderful...for all his peccadillos  (!!!!! :o!!!!)
At least he had a lot of passion about him & I love his momentary bursts of extreme piety! I also think he's VERY funny (like buying the bear and bringing it back on Ella's train.)
I also read an autobiography of an English nurse who worked in Russia during WWI. After her return to England after the revolution she met Felix & he was very kind to her.  
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Kätlin on February 20, 2005, 02:56:27 AM
He is my absolute favourite from that period :). He had lots of fun in life, didn't bother to worry about other people's opinions, but could also be serious and make important decisions, when necessary.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Johnny on February 20, 2005, 02:04:42 PM
I love this guy. He was very handsome, very elegant, and at the same time quite a fun person. I don't think that he didn't care about other people. I remember reading in his memoirs how his mother would tell them that people like them who have so much have a responsibility to give a lot to other people. Later in exile when they were so poor that they couldn't even afford a maid and Irina had to do their laundry by hand in their bath tub, it's understandable that they couldn't be as generous as they wanted to be. What he didn't care about was probably people's prejudices and gossip. For that he gets an A+ from me.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Annie on February 20, 2005, 06:20:24 PM
Quote
I also think he's VERY funny (like buying the bear and bringing it back on Ella's train.)



That was hilarious! I also like the time that he replaced his Dad's friends cigarettes with joke firework ones during the 1905 revolution and they ran outside screaming, thinking an attempt had been made on their lives! A visiting Emir of someplace was not mad like the rest, he thought it was so funny he awarded him the highest honor of his country and pinned the medal on him!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Janet_W. on February 20, 2005, 06:24:40 PM
Felix is fascinating to read about. Not sure I'd want to know him up close and personal, though!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Lisa on February 21, 2005, 04:35:33 AM
He makes me laught. It's a funny man: incredible character, incredible personnality, incredible history!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: deYoussouppoff on March 14, 2005, 02:30:59 PM
Quote

That was hilarious! I also like the time that he replaced his Dad's friends cigarettes with joke firework ones during the 1905 revolution and they ran outside screaming, thinking an attempt had been made on their lives! A visiting Emir of someplace was not mad like the rest, he thought it was so funny he awarded him the highest honor of his country and pinned the medal on him!


There was a custom among the aristocracy in those days called "epater les bourgeois," which simply means that one should shake things up a little by doing things which were, in the ordinary way of things, absolutely outrageous. This was a wonderful example. Just as dancing on the table on his mother's jewels was totally outrageous.

What this custom meant was that one was rich enough, and important enough, to be above the common run of manners and customs -- to be above the law, sometimes. These were ways of showing people that one could get away with anything.

Like Felix?  How could one NOT like Felix?  He is a fascinating character. It often occurs to me who would play Felix if a film were ever made?  He had two distinct sides, you know, and the one that sets out to be rebellious and offend everyone would be very difficult to cast, I would think...
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: bluetoria on March 14, 2005, 06:42:58 PM
Quote

There was a custom among the aristocracy in those days called "epater les bourgeois," which simply means that one should shake things up a little by doing things which were, in the ordinary way of things, absolutely outrageous.



Not much change there then! Don't they still do that today (but with far less finesse than Felix!  ;))
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Tsaritsa on March 29, 2005, 05:53:37 AM
Felix is rather boorish.  I have a problem with his role in the murder of Rasputin.  I have read parts of "Lost Slendor".  He is quite the braggart.  I find that hard to deal with.  I have never cared for Felix.  
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: bluetoria on March 29, 2005, 07:14:00 AM
Strangely enough, Tsaritsa, I think that he is a braggart but it is so over the top that it almost becomes endearing! I think it is something which few people can 'carry off' without becoming annoying and yet somehow Felix does (to my mind).
His flamboyance itself makes him noticed but I think that there was far more to him than initially meets the eye. Beneath all the show and facade, he seems to have been quite a thoughtful person in many ways, if something of a dilettante.
His involvement in Rasputin's murder is an unpleasant thought but....hum..hum... :-/
I imagine it would have been exhausting to be in his company but never boring.  :)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: deYoussouppoff on March 29, 2005, 12:45:47 PM
I have always supposed that being around Felix would be like being around the most interesting person in one's world: generally, such a person (and I have known a few and have even been accused, when I was much younger, of being one of that genre) would be and remain simply fascinating, if for no other reason than because they are utterly incapable of  thinking, acting or reacting like anyone else. Such a person would also be center stage, at all times, running the show, wherever he might be. These fascinators, with vast charisma and the ability to control the stage, are, in some ways, far more like circus performers than everyday people. One would have to be able to leave, to get away to a quieter sphere where one could rest and reflect, but I can see how it would be addictive to be around such a person increasingly often. I would probably fall in love with someone like that, and then spend lots of time trying to keep enough distance to keep my sanity.

I am not sure that I "like" Felix. I do, however, feel that I understand him, that I "feel" him, and the fact that I am swept up into his world all these decades later, whenever his name is mentioned, says a lot. Who else has the ability to do that?  Only someone like Felix...
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on October 25, 2005, 12:16:10 PM
I believe that he was a character, too. That he had something about him that was very different from the normal and that fascinated people. The stories about his anctics seem to be numerous and they are all entertaining. I would have to have been around him to see if I could like him. He is someone you would have had a strong reaction to one way or the other. I would most likely have had to be around him to see if my reactin was good or bad. One thing that is true, he would have been fascinating to know whether or not you liked him. He would have made a mark on you, and you would always remember him.

I agree with the last poster who analyzed characters, I love people like that and I am forever seeking them out, in all areas of my life. I don't know if I am myself, maybe, I would hope so, but I am not that flamboyent. I worked with a person once who was a huge character. I still remember every story about her. But then I have worked with two people or so who were ''characters''.And don't let me even get into my neighbours, past and present.... I agree that you can almost fall in love with people of Felix's type, or people who are chracters in general. They are larger than life, and everything they do is the way no one else would do it. Often people like this make history again and again, as Prince Felix did.  ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: AkshayChavan on November 11, 2005, 06:05:16 PM
I really like felix. This reason is because whatever his faults , he had the character and strength to own his mistakes. It takes a person with strong character to say "I was a vain and shallow person in my youth". It takes guts for a man to say "i moved in woman's clothes and loved it". He made lot of mistakes but owned them up. That tells a lot about a person.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Margarita Markovna on November 11, 2005, 09:08:37 PM
I like him, what I've read of him LOL.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: David_Pritchard on November 11, 2005, 10:32:38 PM
Quote
I have to admit that I can't get enough of Felix. He's my favorite outside of Tzar Nikolai's family. Even though he used people and probably didn't care about anyone's feelings, and lied a lot, I can't help but like him.


What a statement to make supposedly in Felix's favour! It says much more about you than Felix that you like liars and users.

David
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on November 11, 2005, 10:46:03 PM
lol. Not really. I said even though he was a liar, I like him. So I like him in spite of the fact that he lied.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: David_Pritchard on November 12, 2005, 12:31:52 PM
Glad to know that I misinterpreted your statement. While I was writing my earlier response I was wondering what kind of boy friend or husband you might have picked if you actually liked liars and users.

I have known a number of Felix-like charming persons in my life. They lie to you, steal from you and deceive you, but they are so much fun to be around that the conscequences of their bad habits are out weighed by the amouint of enjoyment and adventure you will have in their company. My reaction now to such persons is to avoid they at all costs.

David
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: RichC on November 13, 2005, 01:32:27 AM
I always thought Felix participated in Rasputin's murder mainly for kicks.  I agree that people like him might be interesting to read about in a book, but in life such characters are best kept at arm's length.  They bring nothing but misfortune and unhappiness to those they associate with...
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lancashireladandre on November 13, 2005, 11:17:53 AM
 I think Felix was one of the most delightful dangerous,fascinating,exasperating,selfish,generous,charming and devious people imaginable. His character is one of complete contrasts. An old lady (sadly now dead)who as a teenager met him in London (in the early days of his exile) said she was blown away/captivated by his charm for the few seconds he addressed her then shattered as he turned away and ignored her. Sadly I was very young when I heard this story and did not ask any questions.The only other detail was that he had a little dog.Despite his insensitivety I would have loved to have met him even for that instant.I think he was very wrapped up with his immense position/heritage. GD Marie Pavlovna the Younger summed the character of Felix up very astutely in her second volume of memoirs "A Princess in Exile". I  think his mother despite her pride was a far nicer character and just as fascinating. Compared to them their spouses seem far less interesting, pale in comparison.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on November 14, 2005, 11:07:15 AM
He was fascinating, and people most likely are more fascinated with him, than like him. He was interesting, and leaps off the pages of history. He had such a personality, and left before and after him much debate, and much that can never be said. Characters are not always bad people, they can just be so different you don't know hot to assess them, as with Felix. Me, I would have liked a glimpse of Felix. More than that? I am not sure.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Sage on November 22, 2005, 02:25:39 PM
Very true

I do find him oddly endearing; such a powerful unique personality, suprisingly candour and a great sense of humor. He is wonderful to write about (which I do)  

There is a Kerouac quote that really reminds mre of Felix;  
“The only ones for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a common place things, but burn like fabulous roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centre light pop and everybody goes ‘Awwww!.”

It's hard not to feel an attraction to that. As a writer I love to try and understand him. Though my admit Felix was probably better to sit next to at dinner than live with.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on November 29, 2005, 10:42:43 AM
Where can you find that quote? I love it, it fits Felix in particular well, and characters in general. I really really like it, and I collect quotations. I would love to know where to find it-can you find it online? Those words fit Felix to a tee.. and some people I have known, too.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on November 29, 2005, 10:44:25 AM
I meant that while you can find it online here, is there a quotations website, or book where you can find it? Thanks for making me aware of this great quote.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Nathan_Davis on December 12, 2005, 03:42:57 PM
I have long been a fan of Felix, and just recently finished Greg King's book The Man Who Killed Rasputin, which is excellent. I think Felix did some serious growing-up in the years following the revolution, and must be given credit for helping many of the Russian expatriate community, particularly those who ended up in Paris.

Best wishes

Nathan
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on December 13, 2005, 10:26:15 AM
Yes, after the revolution I am sure he did do some growing up. He was always something of a flamboyant character though.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Valmont on December 14, 2005, 09:51:50 AM
Quote
Felix is fascinating to read about. Not sure I'd want to know him up close and personal, though!


I agree with you Janet, Considering Felix's Character, I am sure It would have been fun to be around for a while, but  in time I think I would have gotten the same frustrating feeling as babysitting a spoiled child.

Somehow, everytime someone talks wonders about  how it would have been to have known Felix in person, I allways remember Marina de Hayden.  I am also sure Anna Anderson Would have disguised herself as a lamp stand to scape if Felix would have walked in the same room she was....

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on December 16, 2005, 11:54:08 AM
Sometimes characters do get overbearing, but then that is what makes them them. And it might have been hard to have known Prince Felix Yusupov up close and personal, of course. But he is great to read about! ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: hg123 on March 28, 2006, 08:13:47 AM
Do I like Felix? I don't know. But I find him fascinating and I dislike him far less than I do several other members of the Romanovs. He did have some redeeming qualities for sure, giving a lot of money to the poor and later probably to the French resistance against the Nazis. Sure, being involved in the murder complot against Rasputin is anything but nice, but seeing that in all likelihood probably almost everybody was involved (or at least knew about it), even that doesn't make him really worse than the rest. Not to mention that if he really thought that Rasputin was a German spy, than the deed is understandable, seeing that this is how war spies were treated at this time, not only in Russia. But of course we will probably never know, what he thought and what his motives were. What I definitely think is that his talents were wasted and instead of writing an autobiography full of semi-truths and outright lies, he should have written some fiction. He definitely is an entertaining storyteller.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on March 28, 2006, 10:36:13 AM
Oh yes, I think that if Prince Felix had written some fiction it would have been quite interesting. He had a story teller's gift, that must be siad although perhaps he  not did always use it well. He has left us alot of fictionlizations about his life rather than fiction. He lived his life like it was a story, however. I agree he had redeeming qualities, more so than some of the Vladimirvichi, and others. As for Rasputin, I don't think Prince Felix believed he was a German spy, although it is to be assumed he believed that Rasputin was discrediting the dynasty.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: don on April 01, 2006, 02:46:09 AM
Felix was no braggart.  Outside the Czar, himself, he was quite probably the wealthiest heir in Russia, the best-known celebrity in his own right, and, judging from his actions anent Rasputin, the only person with his own peculiar and very particular  sense of responsibility, even if misguided,  for the mis-management of his country.  He also obviously felt himself to be the only person in Russia who could put everything back on track by killing the Staretz and to be the only person who could both do it and get away with doing it.  Felix was incredibly daring, yes, but nothing I have read shows him to be a braggart.  The heir of Archangelskoye didn't need hyperbole.  I find most of what he says to be understated in the extreme.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on April 03, 2006, 08:23:14 AM
I don't think Felix was a braggert, although he did exaggerate things a bit in his memoirs sometimes. I think this is what we are refering to. Not that he had to exaggerate anything; his life was quite an interesting one, and one that could have been printed without embellishment, and people would still have found it fascinating. He was given to exaggeration though, a bit, or perhaps just being prideful, which of course he had every right to be. He did believe Rasputin was a discredit to the dynasty, and while Rasputin seems to have fascinated him personally, he pulled away.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Suzie on September 14, 2006, 02:09:09 PM
I find him a lot scarier than Rasputin. The guy was a murderer. Seriously, I am a newbie here and I am really surprized to find people who find him attractive. Aside from the fact that most everyone else died and he managed to live, what's to like?
Suzie
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: jacqueline on September 14, 2006, 03:03:40 PM
He and his wife were well liked by many Russians and always invited to all of the parties of their time.  The Yusupovs would have been ignored and disregarded if people really thought he was all that scandalous. My grandmother says the homosexual rumors about Felix were untrue and that he was just a bon vivant and liked to go to fancy dress parties…. he always a very pleasant person. His wife was always on his arm.  He viewed the killing of Rasputin more like getting rid of a vicious animal…. likened unto the necessity of a killing wolf that invaded a henhouse.   He didn’t consider himself an assassin because he didn’t think of Rasputin as human.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Annie on September 14, 2006, 03:07:52 PM
I used to not like him much when all I knew was that he killed Rasputin, but after reading his memoirs "Lost Splendour" you can't help but like the guy. He's so interesting, creative, funny, and I can tell by the way he writes he thinks a lot like me, and I can't help but like a person with a wild, wound up mind that goes and goes. If you haven't read his book, try it.

http://alexanderpalace.org/lostsplendor

Also, there is some question as to whether or not he was actually the killer. No question he was guilty, plotted and conspired to commit murder, and in the US that alone will get you the chair, but there are a lot of conflicting stories as to who actually killed him. Check out the Rasputin section here for more.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Nadezhda Edvardovna on September 15, 2006, 10:13:39 AM
I like Felix.  He strikes me as lighthearted and fun.  Never serious.  His participation in the murder of Rasputin, I believe, is more like the action of a soldier than a murderer, as he truly  believed it was necessary to save the nation.  Pax, N.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on September 18, 2006, 12:16:17 PM
Well, I think it is not so much like him, as to be fasacinated by him; he was that, and more. His story has everything that makes a story interesting, and his character does as well. Would we have liked to have known him? Hard to say, but I think he seems better in history. And would we have liked him if we knew him? It depends on what we are like; certain personalities come together while others clash. Certainly, he was interesting, amd may have seemed one thing in society. His private life was a rather lurid affair, if you believe some books.It is people like him who make history come alive, and leap off the page. ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on September 18, 2006, 05:54:56 PM
To understand the fascination that produced this guy,one may read his recollections...even if no one could assert that evereything said is funded in his book,his history is for the more passionating...and never forget, he suffers of his reputation after the war,his jewels were seized in the USA,during a certain time he could not join his woman there because of the constition who refuse the come of murderers...

According to Fedorovsky(the living author )it would be the cousin of Yussupov(I do not remember his name)who was at the "murder party" who kill Rasputin but they would have hide it because of the fact he was a Romanov,heir of the throne that's why the would have tell that it was done by Felix...yet,I do not know how he could assert it but this is possible...
Vassili
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Nadezhda Edvardovna on September 18, 2006, 06:46:56 PM
That would be Dimitri Pavelovitch, a cousin by marriage. Pax, N.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on September 19, 2006, 10:18:42 PM
I love Felix!  ;D He was a very interesting person. Even more so after reading Lost Splendor. He did seem very fun. As for his killing Rasputin, I try not to think about it.  :-\ It would *lower* my opinion of him.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on September 20, 2006, 08:33:21 AM
He was very interesting, if controversial. He does make history that much more interesting by his prescence, and I certainly don't admire him, but I enjoy reading about him and his times. He was sort of an enigma in some ways, although very clear on others.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Nathan_Davis on September 21, 2006, 06:40:38 PM
Absolutely. I'd date him in a minute!  ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on September 22, 2006, 09:01:06 AM
Yes, he had a fascinating personality that shines down through history. ;) He is more than interesting to debate.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: hg123 on September 24, 2006, 12:46:39 PM
He also was, to mention his possibly best character trait, very generous and even in exile did give a lot of money to other exile Russians. So IMO that's definitely something to like about him. He also gave money to the French resistance in the fight against the Nazis.

Otherwise, I would agree that I'm fascinated by him, but do not like him. IMO, to ask if I like him is asking, if I like Cleopatra. She was an interesting person to read about and there's a reason, why so many movies were made with her as the main character. But she was also far from being a saint and had her own silblings killed, for example. I feel similarly about Felix. Let's just day that I would have liked to meet him out of poor curiosity, but not to get to close with him. I do prefer him to quite a few members of the Imperial family, though.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 24, 2006, 02:45:00 PM
I definitely like him. And would loved to have met him, get to know him, especially in his younger years. The closest I ever got though, was meeting a couple of old gents who did know him.  They confirmed to me that that just about everything said about him was true- including his sexuality. I think he would have been someone I could be on & off with. Fun for a while then a bit annoying and tiring. Someone at least I would need a rest from for a while.
His loyalty and generosity are not inflated either.
 I think Greg King's bio of Felix- THE MAN WHO KILLED RASPUTIN is probably the best contemporary account of his life. At least in English.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on September 24, 2006, 06:51:43 PM
I have read that, and he was fasacinating. He would have been interesting to know, for maybe a day for me, then I think I would have gotten a little put off. He was very flamboyant, and I think everything said about him down the years is true, actually, and I am not surprised they confirmed that to you, those you talked with. I think his personality was quite apprarent, whatever way you want to take it.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: jacqueline on September 27, 2006, 04:00:52 PM
I definitely like him. And would loved to have met him, get to know him, especially in his younger years. The closest I ever got though, was meeting a couple of old gents who did know him.  They confirmed to me that that just about everything said about him was true- including his sexuality. I think he would have been someone I could be on & off with. Fun for a while then a bit annoying and tiring. Someone at least I would need a rest from for a while.
His loyalty and generosity are not inflated either.
 I think Greg King's bio of Felix- THE MAN WHO KILLED RASPUTIN is probably the best contemporary account of his life. At least in English.

Who were the "old gents" that knew him so well?
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on September 28, 2006, 10:50:34 AM
Whoever they were, what they said seems true to me.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: TampaBay on September 28, 2006, 04:16:32 PM

I think he would have been someone I could be on & off with. Fun for a while then a bit annoying and tiring. Someone at least I would need a rest from for a while.


Sorta like The Duchess of Dermount & THE Grand Duke.  ;D ;D ;D

TampaBay
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 29, 2006, 06:06:06 PM
Jacquline, that was 30 years ago. The "old gents" were school mates.  When I met them,. Felix was already dead and they soon followed, I imagine. I had no reason to dis-believe anything they said, as I was introduced to them by a rather well known author, who specialised in royal subjects.
 If you want names, well, pm me.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Baby_Julia on November 13, 2006, 08:06:55 AM
I just think he has his place in history. that was the role he had to fulfill, the murderer of rasputin. it all makes sense in the end.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on November 13, 2006, 10:00:51 AM
Well, he did fulfil this role, but he also fulfilled other roles as well. I think he was a complicated person, who it is only fair to remember had other roles as well. Those roles may not have made him famous, but they still were important. He is a very complicated person, but he was quite a character if you will, and that makes him great fun to read about, if not to understand. I think his main role is to be interesting in history, more for who he was, than what he did.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Leuchtenberg on November 29, 2006, 08:59:37 AM
He is beyond a doubt very fascinating....a larger than life character.   I would never want him as  a friend though.  He was too flakey and too unreliable.   He also loved to embellish stories.  Am I allowed to use the word "b*llsh*tter* on this site?  ;D
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: imperial angel on November 29, 2006, 11:55:56 AM
Well, he was flaky and unreliable, but always interesting. He wasn't the most honest of people, but he was so flamboyant and entertaining. I think he had his own version of life, that he always lived to the exclusion of normal reality. Before the revolution, though, his world was far from real, and even after he lived an atomsphere that no doubt made him even more of a flamboyant character.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: TampaBay on February 11, 2007, 06:43:07 AM
He is beyond a doubt very fascinating....a larger than life character.   I would never want him as  a friend though.  He was too flakey and too unreliable.   He also loved to embellish stories.  Am I allowed to use the word "b*llsh*tter* on this site?  ;D


Yes you may use billshitter!

Yes you may use bullshitter!  I have before.           
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Johnny on February 27, 2007, 07:21:57 PM
I love the guy. I wouldn't exchange one Felix for a hundred Alexandras. :)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on February 27, 2007, 08:35:52 PM
He is the epitome of the corruption of the last years of the Romanovs. He probably had something quite sinister to do with the death of his older brother. He does nothing with his wealth except to lead a hedonistic existence in the demi-underworld of the time. He marries without love. And he then violates the laws of hospitality by inviting a man into his home with the intent to murder him. If we can believe his story, which is a big IF, then he then becomes a cowardly assassin by shooting the man in the back. When he bends to examine the man's body and it shows signs of life, he flees in terror, screaming like a teenage girl as far as he can. Then, he does nothing with his life but live off the story which he embelishes and re-invents on each occassion. He breaks his promise to his fellow conspirators. He spends the rest of his life feeding off this one moment in time.
If he hadn't been involved in the Rasputin murder none of us today would probably have ever heard of him or know who he was. He had his 15 minutes of fame and then made the most of it by milking it for all he could get.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: scarlett_riviera on February 27, 2007, 10:52:14 PM
I suppose I can say that I like him. He may not have been an entirely good person (who is?), but he had several good deeds worth noting. After he and his wife went into exile, and left most of their fortune behind, he was still kind enough to provide financial aid to those who needed it. When G.D. Michael's widow, Natasha, became poverty-stricken, he was the only one who bothered to help (I can't be sure though, I can't remember where I read this!).
I also think he is a hilarious prankster!  ;D
I swear to God, his book made me laugh out loud!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on February 28, 2007, 06:25:47 AM
He is the epitome of the corruption of the last years of the Romanovs. He probably had something quite sinister to do with the death of his older brother. He does nothing with his wealth except to lead a hedonistic existence in the demi-underworld of the time. He marries without love. And he then violates the laws of hospitality by inviting a man into his home with the intent to murder him. If we can believe his story, which is a big IF, then he then becomes a cowardly assassin by shooting the man in the back. When he bends to examine the man's body and it shows signs of life, he flees in terror, screaming like a teenage girl as far as he can. Then, he does nothing with his life but live off the story which he embelishes and re-invents on each occassion. He breaks his promise to his fellow conspirators. He spends the rest of his life feeding off this one moment in time.
If he hadn't been involved in the Rasputin murder none of us today would probably have ever heard of him or know who he was. He had his 15 minutes of fame and then made the most of it by milking it for all he could get.

Well stated James!

It is impossible for me to indicate a favorable response concerning this pathological individual. His "memory" of the murder contains little original thought and reads like a trashy novel. Such a pity that whilst strutting like a stuffed ostrich around Paris he failed to declare the truth about the horrendous crime in which he participated and admit the wrongful act of extinguishing the life of an innocent human being in the manner he and his co-conspirators had contrived. Instead, in exile he publicly profited from his transgression in almost heroic terms.   

Margarita  
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 28, 2007, 08:18:34 AM
He is the epitome of the corruption of the last years of the Romanovs. He probably had something quite sinister to do with the death of his older brother. He does nothing with his wealth except to lead a hedonistic existence in the demi-underworld of the time. He marries without love. And he then violates the laws of hospitality by inviting a man into his home with the intent to murder him. If we can believe his story, which is a big IF, then he then becomes a cowardly assassin by shooting the man in the back. When he bends to examine the man's body and it shows signs of life, he flees in terror, screaming like a teenage girl as far as he can. Then, he does nothing with his life but live off the story which he embelishes and re-invents on each occassion. He breaks his promise to his fellow conspirators. He spends the rest of his life feeding off this one moment in time.
If he hadn't been involved in the Rasputin murder none of us today would probably have ever heard of him or know who he was. He had his 15 minutes of fame and then made the most of it by milking it for all he could get.

Do you feel he milked it? I know he wrote his memoirs. However he had more than his 15 minutes of fame. He was already famous, being the husband of the Tsars only neice and coming from one of the wealthiest families in Russia!

:)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ashdean on February 28, 2007, 08:54:29 AM
He is the epitome of the corruption of the last years of the Romanovs. He probably had something quite sinister to do with the death of his older brother. He does nothing with his wealth except to lead a hedonistic existence in the demi-underworld of the time. He marries without love. And he then violates the laws of hospitality by inviting a man into his home with the intent to murder him. If we can believe his story, which is a big IF, then he then becomes a cowardly assassin by shooting the man in the back. When he bends to examine the man's body and it shows signs of life, he flees in terror, screaming like a teenage girl as far as he can. Then, he does nothing with his life but live off the story which he embelishes and re-invents on each occassion. He breaks his promise to his fellow conspirators. He spends the rest of his life feeding off this one moment in time.
If he hadn't been involved in the Rasputin murder none of us today would probably have ever heard of him or know who he was. He had his 15 minutes of fame and then made the most of it by milking it for all he could get.
Felix did make a meal out of the murder....no doubt about it...but like him or hate him...he was always interesting even when he was exasperating !!!!

Do you feel he milked it? I know he wrote his memoirs. However he had more than his 15 minutes of fame. He was already famous, being the husband of the Tsars only neice and coming from one of the wealthiest families in Russia!

:)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lori_c on February 28, 2007, 12:31:32 PM
He is the epitome of the corruption of the last years of the Romanovs. He probably had something quite sinister to do with the death of his older brother. He does nothing with his wealth except to lead a hedonistic existence in the demi-underworld of the time. He marries without love. And he then violates the laws of hospitality by inviting a man into his home with the intent to murder him. If we can believe his story, which is a big IF, then he then becomes a cowardly assassin by shooting the man in the back. When he bends to examine the man's body and it shows signs of life, he flees in terror, screaming like a teenage girl as far as he can. Then, he does nothing with his life but live off the story which he embelishes and re-invents on each occassion. He breaks his promise to his fellow conspirators. He spends the rest of his life feeding off this one moment in time.
If he hadn't been involved in the Rasputin murder none of us today would probably have ever heard of him or know who he was. He had his 15 minutes of fame and then made the most of it by milking it for all he could get.

Do you feel he milked it? I know he wrote his memoirs. However he had more than his 15 minutes of fame. He was already famous, being the husband of the Tsars only neice and coming from one of the wealthiest families in Russia!

:)
Kudos to you both! ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Johnny on February 28, 2007, 04:52:34 PM
He is the epitome of the corruption of the last years of the Romanovs. He probably had something quite sinister to do with the death of his older brother. He does nothing with his wealth except to lead a hedonistic existence in the demi-underworld of the time. He marries without love. And he then violates the laws of hospitality by inviting a man into his home with the intent to murder him. If we can believe his story, which is a big IF, then he then becomes a cowardly assassin by shooting the man in the back. When he bends to examine the man's body and it shows signs of life, he flees in terror, screaming like a teenage girl as far as he can. Then, he does nothing with his life but live off the story which he embelishes and re-invents on each occassion. He breaks his promise to his fellow conspirators. He spends the rest of his life feeding off this one moment in time.
If he hadn't been involved in the Rasputin murder none of us today would probably have ever heard of him or know who he was. He had his 15 minutes of fame and then made the most of it by milking it for all he could get.
James,
Felix was not corrupt whatsoever, unless by corruption you mean his habit of crossdressing, sleeping with men and wild partying. But that would all be moralistic trash. I have no problems with drag queens and eccentric people. I actually find them very interesting, and there's no reason to believe they are any worse than the general population. In many ways Rasputin, Sergey, and many officials were much more corrupt than this sensitive, artistic and kindhearted man. And you call Felix the epitome of corruption ??? Felix certainly had nothing to do with his brother's death. I don't know where you got all that from? He did love his wife in his own way, the same way she loved him in her own way. They never left each other, did they? The only mistake that he made about killing Rasputin was that he didn't do it sooner. Rasputin might look in retrospect innocent to some, but at the time he didn't to him. Rasputin himself probably didn't think he was doing anything wrong, but he definitely had to be removed because of the damage he was causing the monarchy. And what do you mean "he then violates the laws of hospitality"? You must be kidding! Felix didn't exactly live in the middle ages. He was of the exact same generation as my grandmother's. This ain't ancient history. They are relatively recent events. He was certainly a modern man. If he was brave enough he should have eliminated Alexandra as well. That might have saved the monarchy. >:(
And even without killing Rasputin Felix would have been famous. His portrait done by Serov is one of the greatest paintings ever done. And he was already famous as a teenager because of that. I knew and admired the painting long before I learned about Felix. He was world famous for his good looks, like any good-looking prince would be today. In exile he was kind to others, helped other emigrants, had great taste in art and clothing and for years had his own line of clothing and worked in his own shop, basically earned his living. He just wrote his memoirs and that was it. He used a bit of imagination there, but given the circumstances, his own reasons and also biography writing standards of the time he didn't do anything inexplicable. If anyone or anything is to blame, it would be the media which milked the story. He was a celebrity after all!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on February 28, 2007, 05:00:33 PM
Well said, Johnny. Pretty much my view of him as well.
 And "Rasputin innocent"?   Perhaps not tried in a court and proven guilty of any crimes, but hardly "innocent".
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on February 28, 2007, 05:53:54 PM
Well said, Johnny. Pretty much my view of him as well.
 And "Rasputin innocent"?   Perhaps not tried in a court and proven guilty of any crimes, but hardly "innocent".

Rasputin did not murder anyone, but Felix took great pride in the fact that he was directly involved in the death of a human being. He deserves nothing but contempt.

He was an insignificant figure in Imperial Russia whose "patriotic deed" brought him fame abroad. A factor that he relished with some vulgarity.

Margarita
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on February 28, 2007, 06:25:22 PM
Beaten so badly that his right eye had fallen out, his right ear torn practically off his head, his body and face showing numerous blows by a blunt, flexible weapon, his genitals crushed by blunt force, his back showing a gaping wound caused by a sharp object, his nose squashed and deformed, the Cyrillic letter G scatched into his right jaw by a sword or knife, all these little details of systematic torture were details left out of his funny little book by our painted little cross dresser and homosexual hero.
Then after subjecting the man to long torture our patriotic heroes left him lying there without benefit of aid or a priest while they go off and toast their success with rounds of drinking. Then they return and and cold bloodedly execute him in gangland style by shooting in the forehead at close range. Then in true Mafia style they try to dispose of his body by throwing it into the river.
These are not the actions of heores but assassins.
Rasputin had committed no crimes. He was guilty of breaking no laws. To say he deserved to be tortured then executed without defense or hearing is not only a sin it is also morally reprehensible. And Felix bragged about his actions without any show of remorse or Christian conscience. Of course, since you see such observations as moralistic trash I assume you find nothing wrong in cold blooded murder.
Don't be too sure little Felix wasn't intimately involved in the machinations that led to the fatal duel of his brother. Suggest you do some research on that.
And yes, only  a cuthroat would invite a man in to his home with the intent to murder him, no matter what century he was living in. Being sensitive, stylish and artistic doesn't excuse his bad manners and his bloody intent.
And while hundreds of thousands of young Russian men were being forcibly drafted to fight and die in this war, or being shot for desertion simply because they wanted to go home to visit their family, our gilded lily was draft-dodging his miltary service and living his hedonistic life in Petrograd. And his wife was taking the cure in the Crimea while thousands of women not so fortunate were working long and hard hours in the war factories and then enduring more long hours standing in line to get food for their family. How many ill or weary mothers and children in the cities got to go take a rest cure in the warm Crimea after desperately trying to stay warm without sufficient fuel. No wonder the Russian people sent these parasites running.
And, yes Felix milked his story for all it was worth. It is a well known fact that he lured Rasputin to his death by enticement of a meeting with Irina. But when a movie barely hinting at this came out Irina and Felix,
on the verge of bankruptcy and desperately sinking into abject poverty saw their chance and sued for "libel"- --and not once but twice. Thus they were able to live off the settlement.
Without his connection to the murder Yusupov would have faded into deserved obscurity like most of the other exiles.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on February 28, 2007, 06:25:47 PM
The only mistake that he made about killing Rasputin was that he didn't do it sooner. Rasputin might look in retrospect innocent to some, but at the time he didn't to him. Rasputin himself probably didn't think he was doing anything wrong, but he definitely had to be removed because of the damage he was causing the monarchy ... He was certainly a modern man. If he was brave enough he should have eliminated Alexandra as well. That might have saved the monarchy. >:(

Johnny I am rather appauled with this pronouncement. Are you actually suggesting that murdering the sovereign's consort would have been justified?

How could the commission of such an act "save the monarchy"?  How many murders would it take to get the it right?

The fact that Felix was a "modern man" in his era gave him no excuse to kill, unless this was a new definition for one. Before the Church to which he adhered he voliated one its main commandments.

Felix's mistake was taking political matters into his own hands. His mistake was believing that he would save the monarchy as a gallant hero. How wrong he was. He and his co-conspirators were guilty of expediting the collapse of the monarchy!

Felix was a despicable individual who lacked the fine virtues of his noble position. Sadly it seems historians and playwrights prefer rogues.

Margarita
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on February 28, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
Beaten so badly that his right eye had fallen out, his right ear torn practically off his head, his body and face showing numerous blows by a blunt, flexible weapon, his genitals crushed by blunt force, his back showing a gaping wound caused by a sharp object, his nose squashed and deformed, the Cyrillic letter G scatched into his right jaw by a sword or knife, all these little details of systematic torture were details left out of his funny little book by our painted little cross dresser and homosexual hero.

Then after subjecting the man to long torture our patriotic heroes left him lying there without benefit of aid or a priest while they go off and toast their success with rounds of drinking. Then they return and and cold bloodedly execute him in gangland style by shooting in the forehead at close range. Then in true Mafia style they try to dispose of his body by throwing it into the river.
These are not the actions of heores but assassins.

... To say he deserved to be tortured then executed without defense or hearing is not only a sin it is also morally reprehensible. And Felix bragged about his actions without any show of remorse or Christian conscience. Of course, since you see such observations as moralistic trash I assume you find nothing wrong in cold blooded murder.

... And while hundreds of thousands of young Russian men were being forcibly drafted to fight and die in this war, or being shot for desertion simply because they wanted to go home to visit their family, our gilded lily was draft-dodging his miltary service and living his hedonistic life in Petrograd.

The truth about the real Yussupov is always ignored while Rasputin is made out to be the real bad guy who was allegedly perceived to be a social menace - who hurt no one by the simplicity of his words and unsophisticated mannerisms. Yet all levels of Petrograd society had flocked in hoards to seek their selfish favors from him. 

James has amply illustrated the viscious nature of Felix that revealed itself on the night he committed pre-meditated murder. Felix was nothing but a cold blooded brutal assassin who had the good fortune to enjoy a comfortable and long existence in exile. Even there he managed to create public mischief.

One should look beyond the saccharine image portrayed by Serov and understand what Felix had become! 

Margarita  
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on February 28, 2007, 08:24:14 PM
What "truth" about Felix  do you think is ignored?  He was pretty frank about his life & actions.  Equally, Rasputin and his actions are fairly well well documented.  I do not see either party as particularly exemplarary, yet Felix is a lot more realistic as he survived, did he not?
"lived to tell the tale" so to speak. He made no excuses, unlike a lot of others who sputterd & frothed blamelessness, telling why their roles were so honourable.
The topic of this thread is Felix after all. Yep I like him, wish I had been able to meet him, even in old age, when he was probably at his best !
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on February 28, 2007, 09:45:11 PM
What "truth" about Felix  do you think is ignored?  He was pretty frank about his life & actions.  Equally, Rasputin and his actions are fairly well well documented.  I do not see either party as particularly exemplarary, yet Felix is a lot more realistic as he survived, did he not?
"lived to tell the tale" so to speak. He made no excuses, unlike a lot of others who sputterd & frothed blamelessness, telling why their roles were so honourable.
The topic of this thread is Felix after all. Yep I like him, wish I had been able to meet him, even in old age, when he was probably at his best !

I guess it comes down to the artistic embellishments and obvious omissions in Yusupov's memoirs that relate to the crime vs. the fabricated police reports written specifically to denigrate the character of Rasputin.

Indeed Felix survived but because of dear Felix - Rasputin did not.
 
If I was by chance in the same room as Felix Yusupov I assure you I would have left!
 
Margarita  ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on February 28, 2007, 10:02:20 PM
He was frank about his actions only after he was safe from any retribution or punishment, and he knew it.
At the time of the sadistic murder he did everything he could to deny his participation, hiding behind the GD Dimitri's immunity and writing to the empress that he was innocent. And trying to cover up his 'patriotic" act from the police. It was only when he knew he was safe that he became so loquacious about his deeds, most of which he inflated all out of porportion to his actual involvement. Like a bad actor in a melodrama he began to chew up the scenery, painted and powdered like one also.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: scarlett_riviera on March 01, 2007, 02:30:10 AM
Thank God for this board I learn new things everyday. I didn't know Rasputin died a slow, painful death. I thought he was just poisoned, shot at, and thrown into a river. I will definitely have to check out the Rasputin thread. Maybe there is something wonderful about him that will make me care about the poor fellow!
I can't change my mind about Felix, however. I will never get bored of hearing about his amazing stories.  And I have to admit, whenever I see one of his portraits, the word "fabulous!" comes to mind!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Kurt Steiner on March 01, 2007, 04:19:02 AM
Even if I must confess that I don't like Rasputin and I admit that he carved his death, I agree completely with James about Felix. His behaviour -Felix's, of course- is not the one of a heroe at all.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 01, 2007, 05:27:29 AM
I certainly do not "admire" Felix.  Nor do I approve of his actions.  The question here is "do we like him"?  That I do. Like I mentioned before, I would like to have met him, listened to him tell his stories, which  most likely changed with each telling. He apparently was an amusing & generous host. Amiable to all he met and certainly had an outlook on life that was unique to him. From what I have been told, his proclivities  kept people on their toes, even into old age. He also kept his own dignity, being fortunate enough to maintain a lifestyle that was admittedly not as lavish as  the pre-revolutionary days, but still had flair and vivacity.
 There was most likely a lot more he could have told about the Rasputin affair, but rather than "hide" behind Dimitri's supposed immunity, I see him him protecting the latter's reputation, in a strange sort of way, perhaps. As has been mentioned, he did not write about all this until after the circumstances had changed radically. Felix survived without having to re-invent himself. Dimitry,well, was pretty much a mess and recoiled from many offers of reconciliation and assistance. Mores the pity there.
 As for his writings.  I have read them in English & french.  I freely admit they are assisted, but are clearly his own words. As they were originally written in French, I would think that the best version to decide on their provenance. I do not see the Vyrubova  "memoir"  as anything like Felix's Having said that, I have read only the English version of her book. I was not impressed at all. Nor did I believe what "she" said.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lori_c on March 01, 2007, 08:59:43 AM
Beaten so badly that his right eye had fallen out, his right ear torn practically off his head, his body and face showing numerous blows by a blunt, flexible weapon, his genitals crushed by blunt force, his back showing a gaping wound caused by a sharp object, his nose squashed and deformed, the Cyrillic letter G scatched into his right jaw by a sword or knife, all these little details of systematic torture were details left out of his funny little book by our painted little cross dresser and homosexual hero.
Then after subjecting the man to long torture our patriotic heroes left him lying there without benefit of aid or a priest while they go off and toast their success with rounds of drinking. Then they return and and cold bloodedly execute him in gangland style by shooting in the forehead at close range. Then in true Mafia style they try to dispose of his body by throwing it into the river.
These are not the actions of heores but assassins.
Rasputin had committed no crimes. He was guilty of breaking no laws. To say he deserved to be tortured then executed without defense or hearing is not only a sin it is also morally reprehensible. And Felix bragged about his actions without any show of remorse or Christian conscience. Of course, since you see such observations as moralistic trash I assume you find nothing wrong in cold blooded murder.
Don't be too sure little Felix wasn't intimately involved in the machinations that led to the fatal duel of his brother. Suggest you do some research on that.
And yes, only  a cuthroat would invite a man in to his home with the intent to murder him, no matter what century he was living in. Being sensitive, stylish and artistic doesn't excuse his bad manners and his bloody intent.
And while hundreds of thousands of young Russian men were being forcibly drafted to fight and die in this war, or being shot for desertion simply because they wanted to go home to visit their family, our gilded lily was draft-dodging his miltary service and living his hedonistic life in Petrograd. And his wife was taking the cure in the Crimea while thousands of women not so fortunate were working long and hard hours in the war factories and then enduring more long hours standing in line to get food for their family. How many ill or weary mothers and children in the cities got to go take a rest cure in the warm Crimea after desperately trying to stay warm without sufficient fuel. No wonder the Russian people sent these parasites running.
And, yes Felix milked his story for all it was worth. It is a well known fact that he lured Rasputin to his death by enticement of a meeting with Irina. But when a movie barely hinting at this came out Irina and Felix,
on the verge of bankruptcy and desperately sinking into abject poverty saw their chance and sued for "libel"- --and not once but twice. Thus they were able to live off the settlement.
Without his connection to the murder Yusupov would have faded into deserved obscurity like most of the other exiles.
James, though you and I are pleasantly on opposite sides of the fence alot, your post above covered everything I believe about Felix and the Rasuting issue.

You couldn't have said it better.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on March 01, 2007, 09:44:53 AM
I don't wish to defend Rasputin. I won't begin to get into my opinion of him. And I don't condemn Felix for his lifestyle despite my rather lurid use of epithets in my post above. That was his own business. I just don't think he and his fellow conspirators are or were heroes when they committed this execution.
If you look at all the assassinations from the past which are regarded as patriotic or political acts--Caesar's, Alexander II's, Lincoln's, Franz Ferdinand's,etc.--they were all conducted in the light of day, in public before all the world to see, even at the sacrifice of the assassin. This murder was conducted in stealth, darkness and deceit, and sadistically.
Let us put such a scenario in a modern context, say Britain today. The Queen, or Prince Phillip, have a special friend. This friend is a working class man, or woman, who has a shady past and who gives the royal couple rather dubious political advice. While having committed no criminal or civil offense this friend has caused the monarchy very bad press and diminished its prestige. So, a rich duke, married to one of the queen's nieces, hooks up with one of the queen's younger cousins (a minor royal), and a Member of Parliament. They lure this special friend to the home of the duke (one of London's most elegant and exclusive addresses) where he is tortured, then shot in the courtyard. When a passing policeman tries to investigate the sound of shots the duke lies to him and tells him a drunken guest has shot a dog. Then the whole plot unravels and the duke, the minor royal and the MP are arrested on suspiscion of committing a murder. What would the modern reprecussions of this be? How would the public view the whole lot of the monarchy in the light of this, despite the unpopularity of the queen's friend. How would the world press handle such a scenario?
Dimitri came to realize that what they thought were actions to save the monarchy turned out to be just the opposite, and probably helped accelerate the downfall of the dynasty. He at least had the grace to be ashamed of what they had done. Had Felix shown even the tiniest bit of remorse for his actions I would have a higher opinion of him, for whatever my opinion of a historical figure is worth.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lori_c on March 01, 2007, 10:00:32 AM
Felix was always rather proud of it.  And part of what i meant when I said I agreed with the statement that he milked it for everything that it was worth.  I also am not defendiing either Rasputin or Felix.  I do agree with your assessment of what really happened and how it compares w/a similar situation in ANY time period.  Any public assassination. 


Also, I feel that Dimitri WAS remorseful and appalled that Felix would even begin to make money off the story.  I do have a higher opinion GD Dimitri.  But none of them were heros.  Felix solved absolutely nothing by the killing of Rasputin.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 01, 2007, 11:20:32 AM
It seems to me that some here think Felix instigated this assasination of the starets.  He certainly was a player but not the star that he built himself up to be. However, this thread is about Felix & his personality. Not the murder of a Russian peasant, the viper in the breast of the Russian Imperial Family.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Johnny on March 01, 2007, 06:31:11 PM
1.our painted little cross dresser and homosexual hero.

2.These are not the actions of heores but assassins.

3.Rasputin had committed no crimes. He was guilty of breaking no laws. To say he deserved to be tortured then executed without defense or hearing is not only a sin it is also morally reprehensible. And Felix bragged about his actions without any show of remorse or Christian conscience. Of course, since you see such observations as moralistic trash I assume you find nothing wrong in cold blooded murder.

4.Don't be too sure little Felix wasn't intimately involved in the machinations that led to the fatal duel of his brother. Suggest you do some research on that.

5.And yes, only  a cuthroat would invite a man in to his home with the intent to murder him, no matter what century he was living in. Being sensitive, stylish and artistic doesn't excuse his bad manners and his bloody intent.
James,
1.I would be a little more sensitive and respectful of others than throwing around such derogatory adjectives. Some people on this board might just be that.

2.They were not professional murderers. They had never killed a man and when they did try, everything went wrong. That's why a simple poisoning attempt turned into a brutal murder.

3. If that's how you think, it doesn't surprise me that you came up with what you said in no.1.

4. I did do my research. He had no motive to want his brother dead.

5. And the way you are condemning him it seems you actually believe his story that he planned and murdered Rasputin singlehandedly. He was one of many. He didn't even pull the trigger. Chances are Rasputin wasn't even poisoned. We don't exactly know who killed him. Many things are going on right now, like the war in Iraq, which to some look heroic now but who knows what they will think of it 80 years from now. We weren't around then, so we can't really judge fairly.

Belochka,

For me one life is as precious as another. Alexandra's life was by no means more precious than her lowest subjects'. I am personally against killings of all sorts, including capital punishment. But I also believe that numbers matter. Killing one person in order to save thousands is a no brainer to me. In case of Alexandra, she didn't have to be killed, just removed from her powerful position. Same goes for Rasputin. But people at the time thought differently. Besides, where was Felix supposed to imprison Rasputin (or Alexandra for that matter)? In his basement? Thousands of people died worse deaths than that of Rasputin as a result of Alexandra's stupid actions or inactions. That includes all those who perished under the soviet regime.The Jewish pogroms, her adamant opposition to real reforms in the rural areas becuase, god forbid, it could change her childish mental images of the idyllic pure peasant life. She said in her own letter, which I read, that the peasants should not be given European style freedoms because they are not ready for it.  Rasputin himself was a result of Alexandra's actions. Without her he would have been nobody. All that said, I find what happened to Alexandra at the end extremely unjust and tragic. I don't beleive in revenge and punishment. As long as the person is not in a position to do harm, that's more than enough for me. I am not happy that Rasputin was killed either. But in his case I find the alternative less attractive. It made no difference at the end, because he was killed too late. And my last point: Alexandra is more responsible for Rasputin's death than any of the actual murderers. If she had got rid of Rasputin in the first place by sending him back to his village and keepin an eye on him so he wouldn't misbehave, he wouldn't have been killed.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 01, 2007, 08:31:31 PM
There is definitely a bigotry showing here.
Felix happily admitted to being a "painted cross dressing" party boy. So what? He could afford it both by his social position and his wealth. I have yet to see him listed amomgst any "homosexual heroes" of mine.
 James- what a narrow view.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: scarlett_riviera on March 02, 2007, 03:46:52 AM
"And my last point: Alexandra is more responsible for Rasputin's death than any of the actual murderers. If she had got rid of Rasputin in the first place by sending him back to his village and keepin an eye on him so he wouldn't misbehave, he wouldn't have been killed."

I had never thought of it that way! But I kind of agree with you on this one. It seems that Alexandra was an immense source of frustration for the GDs and leaders then; for those who were desperately trying to save not just their way of living, but the rest of Russia as well, from completely falling apart. Murdering Rasputin was, perhaps, the final resort, but the act was done too late. I view Felix's actions as a desperate patriotic act, perhaps tinge with a few personal reasons, and it does not make me like him any less. 
Alexandra remained stubborn even when things were getting worse, refused to listen to those who knew the situation of Russia better. But I can't completely blame her for this because she was being fed false information by a few people from the government (correct me on this one if I'm wrong!), at least concerning the peasants, whose letters of support to the Imperial Family were actually worded by ministers. But then again, now that I think more about it, if she were truly a good empress, she would have known the whole truth of the situation. Unfortunately, she was distant from her people and ignorant of their needs. At least Felix was socially aware. 
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Johnny on March 02, 2007, 07:41:47 AM
I agree 100% with you.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Vecchiolarry on March 02, 2007, 09:07:15 AM
Hi,

I know this is a thread on "Felix" but we seem to be bringing Rasputin's reputation into it also.  And, that somehow he deserved to be killed......

My thoughts on this small question are:
1)  He seems to have done Alexis a world of good in helping him with his haemophelia.
2)  Alexandra, and to a degree Nicholas, seem to have tolerated Rasputin and indeed needed him for their son's wellbeing.
3)  The Czar should have banned Rasputin from any political influence but he was weak and Alexandra was running things.  Maybe The Czar was more responsible for Rasputin's eventual fate..
4)  He was a lecher, a drunkard and pretty much a low-life;  but what were Felix and Dmitry?  Were they any better?

Lastly, perhaps Felix was just "dining out" on his stories!  After all, as an aristocrat, he would have access to several royal and noble and 'noveau riche' tables and was just "singing for his supper" and Irina's too.

Any thoughts on this???

Larry
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ashdean on March 02, 2007, 10:06:26 AM

1.our painted little cross dresser and homosexual hero.

James, I am sorry to say that having read this remark, you show that you ,yourself are an assassin.. a character assassin...Peoples sexual orientation/gender is not something to be condemned by you in this manner...It is a remark unworthy of being allowed to be posted on this board & I think you should be ashamed to make such nasty remarks even about the long dead...
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Forum Admin on March 02, 2007, 11:24:09 AM
The language and eptithets being used here have no place in an open historical discussion.  I will ask posters to more carefully choose their words and review their prose before hitting the post button..

Several readers have written me to complain about some of the posts. You all know which ones and who made them.

Thank you.

FA
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on March 02, 2007, 02:23:28 PM
With all due respect to the Forum Admin, I am afraid I DO NOT know which posts have been complained about, and I DO NOT know who they are. Could you be less cryptic? If accusations are going to be made, please make them openly. This only fair to all who have participated in this thread.

Just what language and epithets are being used that have no place in a historical discussion? Name them so that those using them can know what is unacceptable and not use such language again. Were are not children to be chided.

Again, one side may use derogatory remarks but should someone step in and take an opposing view, their remarks become subject to vague accusations and then suspension without being told why.

As one poster wrote above this is a place where we all come to learn and to discuss issues and ideas and personalities. That is what makes it so informative and interesting. Sometimes the facts can be obtrusive and abrasive. Does this mean we cannot explore them? The word FORUM, which this site purports to be, means a place where ideas and opinions can be openly discussed and debated, even if they might not conform to our own. If that can't be done here, then perhaps that rule might be made perfectly clear.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on March 02, 2007, 02:41:16 PM
Now, to answer a few posts directed at me.
To Ashdean:
That Felix was an individual who painted his face in the female mode and wore women's clothes is not in doubt. He admitted it as much in his own memoirs. Individuals who have such proclivites are called "cross dressers." What can you object to for using the term. Is "transvestite" more acceptable?

His sexual orientation was probably homosexual, perhaps bi-sexual, although his later life indicated it was probably the former. What objection to that word do you have? What other word or words would you like me to use? I made no moral judgement. In fact, I replied that his private life was his own business. I make no moral judgement on his sexual activities. I have no right to do so. But, they do impinge on his actions as a historical figure and therefore are legitimate areas to discuss.

As to not discussing his life, then why have this thread? He is a historical figure. He has been written about, he has written his own books, and so on. Therefore he is a legitimate figure for discussion, no matter how long ago he died. Which, by the way, is not so long ago. He was alive in my lifetime, so I think I have some rights to discuss him
. I am sorry if my opinion of his character does not conform to your opinion of it, but that is my right. I find it just as objectionable on this thread for others to call him a hero. Will that objection be registered and such posts subject to being chided?
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Forum Admin on March 02, 2007, 03:06:19 PM
First, let us get some genuine facts straight, since James1941 is presenting inaccurate facts to attempt to push his view, instead of have a genuine discussion.

Richard Cullen, a police forensics expert, has spent much of his time and money researching Rasputin's death.  Rasputin did NOT die a long suffering death.  There was no trace of poison anywhere in his system.  The first shot to his liver was fatal within ten minutes, the second gunshot to his head was instantly fatal. Anything which happened to the body happened after the second gunshot and so was to an already dead corpse. Rasputin was not tortured before his death. The body was not "mutilated" nor initials "carved" into his face. PLEASE read the orignal autopsy, its elsewhere in the forum. Your statementa: "Beaten so badly that his right eye had fallen out, his right ear torn practically off his head, his body and face showing numerous blows by a blunt, flexible weapon, his genitals crushed by blunt force, his back showing a gaping wound caused by a sharp object, his nose squashed and deformed, the Cyrillic letter G scatched into his right jaw by a sword or knife, all these little details of systematic torture...after subjecting the man to long torture our patriotic heroes left him lying there without benefit of aid or a priest while they go off and toast their success with rounds of drinking. Then they return and and cold bloodedly execute him in gangland style by shooting in the forehead at close range." ARE NOT SUPPORTED BY THE HISORICAL RECORD.  You are attempting to use this innuendo for rhetorical effect rather than add any genuine historical fact to the discussion.


Felix is about 95% certain with what we know now to have had no actual physical attempt to kill R., but rather it was someone else in the house that night.  Even when long "safe" he assumed the full blame for a murder that while he conspired to prepare, he himself did not actually commit.

I'm sorry James1941, but your clearly and blatantly homophobic statements are not welcomed here. Period. "Our gilded lily" "he flees in terror, screaming like a teenage girl" "our painted little cross dresser and homosexual hero." "Being sensitive, stylish and artistic doesn't excuse his bad manners and his bloody intent."  Your agenda is clear here. For some reason you seem to condone Rasputin's debauchery with women, prositutes and yes, under age girls...these are not made up by the Okhrana, but were observed by hundreds of people...
for some reason, Rasputin is given a pass for his "morally bankrupt" debauchery, but Felix's own behavior is broacast in the most offensive, homophobic rhetoric possible.

If you can not tone done your clearly homophobic agenda, take it elsewhere. I won't allow it here.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU,  SINCE YOU ASKED FOR ME TO MAKE IT SO IN PUBLIC??

FA
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on March 02, 2007, 03:11:08 PM
In answer to Johnny:
1. Derogatory adjectives are subjective to one's own interpretation as to what is drogatory or not. As I explained to Ashdean, the words cross dresser and homosexual are perfectly acceptable terms. I applied the adjectives to Felix Yusupov. Not to anyone else on this forum. If anyone finds them objectionable then so be it, but I do not apologize for my opinion of him.
2. Felix had the most common motive of all to be rid of his elder brother. Money. With his brother dead he was sole heir to the largest private fortune in Russia and the illustrious title that went with it. Very powerful motives. Why did Nicholas fight the duel? What were the circumstances that brought the fatal result to fruition? Felix was not an innocent bystander in these events. His fingerprints are everywhere. It is a matter that demands more research and exploration.
3. Whether the men who participated in the murder of Rasputin were professional, amateurs or just plain bumblers is totally immaterial. Whether Felix administered poison or not is totally immaterial. Whether Felix participated in the torture is totally immaterial. Whethr Felix fired into Rasputin as he claims he did, or whether he didn't is totally immateria.
What is material that he was present at, took part in, and conspired to bring about the murder. That makes him an accessory to murder. This is a criminal act in almost all civilized societies. There is enough evidence to hang Felix Yusupov higher than Haman (this is from the Bible).
4. Political necessity does not justify murder. That is why when the men who wanted Nicholas II out of power and a change in government began their coup d'etat they didn't kill Nicholas II or any of his ministers.
Besides, killing Rasputin led to nothing. It was a total failure if it's objective was to save the monarchy. Just a few short months after this brutal murder the monarchy was swept away in any case. Rasputin would have been swept away with it. Therefore his sadistic torture and execution were un-necessary. In fact it probably help expedite events rather than retard them. Please debate how such murder accomplished anything but the death of an man who had committed no crimes.
5. Rasputin's true involvement the politics of the last years of the Romanov dynasty and his true influence on matters are still evolving today, as new and unknown documents are being discovered. It's extent is certainly debatable. His murder is still morally reprehensible. The last time I looked "thou shall not commit murder" is still one of the ten commandments. I don't believe God put a disclaimer on it, "except if the person is engaged in political activity you don't approve of, then you can commit murder."
That Felix went around bragging about and never once indicated any doubt as to it shows his moral compass was a little off in more ways than one. This is why I don't like him.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 02, 2007, 03:31:39 PM
James, the words you used are not in of themselves objectionavle, it was the contexrt you used them in. You implied that a "painted, cross dressing homosexual hero [?]' made Felix less of a person. That is what is objectionable. Btw, I have dozens of homosexual histories  and bios,  in not one of them is Felix considered a "hero". Flamboyant, hedonistic, self-absorbed, yes. A hero ? By whom?
 Charging him with the murder of his brother is spurious at best. There was plenty of money to go around between the two of them. And, Felix did not want the responsibility of maintaining the family operations.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: James1941 on March 02, 2007, 03:32:33 PM
To the Forum Admin.
1. I have not made any attempt to defend Rasputin or his behavior other than that his murder was morally reprehensible. I stand by that, and I invite any others on this thread to support me in that opinion. Rasputin's actions are his and he had as much right to indulge in them as Felix did to indulge in his. I do not condone either. Besides, this is not a thread about Rasputin, but the man who conspired to murder him.
2. I wrote he fled like screaming like a teenage girl because that is what he did. He himself made mention of it in his work on the murder. The others present also testified to his actions. It is not my opinion but the historical facts. I am not the only one who should do a little research on the events.
3. In using the words sensitive, stylish and artistic, these were words used by another poster in describing why they liked Yusupov. I just remarked that because he was this doesn't excuse him from being a murder. How is that homophobic?
4. I have no homophobic agenda here at all. I am insulted that you should even think I was being homophobic. How do you know at all what I am thinking? As I have posted almost ad naseum, Yusupov's sexual orientation is not a secret. It is a historical fact. And I believe I have the right to comment on it just as much as anyone else does to call Rasputin a debauched pedophile. Does that make you a pedohobe just because you use those words?
We are discussing a historical figure and his actions and his character. He is fair game. If I start calling other posters using "homophobic rhetoric" or insulting them for their using clearly offensive words,then you can accuse me of being a homphobe. Until then my opion of Felix is just that, my opinion of him, and has no bearing on my true opinions or beliefs. You haven't the foggiest notion of what my real beliefs and even my own orientation are. You are whistling in the wind.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Forum Admin on March 02, 2007, 03:34:19 PM
then you sir, James1941...
are gone...I personally was offended by your expression of your "opinons". so...bye bye.

Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on March 02, 2007, 09:08:10 PM
I am shocked and deeply saddened by the news today that James has left this forum.

James has worked with integrity and professionalism with me on the first cyber Inquest (Nikolai II). He has always been the perfect gentleman and a friend over the years we have communicated privately. We have had our differences on a number of issues concerning the Imperial Family, but at the end of the day we have amicably agreed to disagree.

A forum such as this one draws together numerous personalities, and keeping that in mind, we are all here for the same reasons and that is to share our knowledge and learn what others have to offer. 

James is a valuable, intelligent member of our unique community. His departure will be our loss and I sincerely hope that the matter can be resolved effectively for the mutual benefit of all.

Margarita Nelipa   :)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Kurt Steiner on March 03, 2007, 02:58:31 AM
I fully agree. I admit that I'm just a newbie, but I've learnt to appreciate James' skills. It's a sad loss. I hope this whole issue can be solved in some way.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 03, 2007, 03:03:24 AM
I agree with FA.  Homophobic comments have no place here- or anywhere in a public forum. If James1941 could not see that, good riddance.
Felix, however, would most likely be laughing all the way to the next party!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Kurt Steiner on March 03, 2007, 03:18:28 AM
Felix, however, would most likely be laughing all the way to the next party!

Indeed! I think it would find everything pretty funny. "At least they're talking about me..." ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ashdean on March 03, 2007, 06:27:30 AM
I agree with FA.  Homophobic comments have no place here- or anywhere in a public forum. If James1941 could not see that, good riddance.
Felix, however, would most likely be laughing all the way to the next party!
I too agree with the F/A. I am sorry this situation has arisen but I have always found James to be rather a hothead, despite some very interesting opinions....
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Forum Admin on March 03, 2007, 08:33:20 AM
I am shocked and deeply saddened by the news today that James has left this forum.

James has worked with integrity and professionalism with me on the first cyber Inquest (Nikolai II). He has always been the perfect gentleman and a friend over the years we have communicated privately. We have had our differences on a number of issues concerning the Imperial Family, but at the end of the day we have amicably agreed to disagree.

A forum such as this one draws together numerous personalities, and keeping that in mind, we are all here for the same reasons and that is to share our knowledge and learn what others have to offer. 

James is a valuable, intelligent member of our unique community. His departure will be our loss and I sincerely hope that the matter can be resolved effectively for the mutual benefit of all.

Margarita Nelipa   :)

The genuine shame is that James could not post with the same integrity and professionalism, nor act as a perfect gentleman here in our Forum as you say he has done in private with you.

I don't care a whit about his beliefs and I did not ban him for them, rather, his obnoxious, offensive and frankly inaccurate rhetoric.  You can say what you like, but the WAY you say it is just as important.  James clear homophobic agenda was the issue.  He can not hide behind his "well he was" statements.  He was offensive, rude and unapologetic.  Bob read this thread and fully supports my decision as he himself was mortified and offended at what James wrote.  If James had just apologised, it may have been different, but then, James NEVER apologised for anything, rather continued his bullying and browbeating to further his agendae.  I have never seen him discuss anything, rather he only lectures and pontificates and demeans and offends those who disagree with him.

Discussion is encouraged, inflammatory rhetoric and deliberate offensive behavior are not.

FA
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Vecchiolarry on March 03, 2007, 10:06:33 AM
Hello Everyone,

With all the problems here on this thread and the final solution, my post #50 seems to have gotten lost and/or forgotten in the quagmire.

Forum Administrator:
I don't know how to bring it forward to continue the dialogue on: "Do we like Felix?" and get the thread back on track.  Can you help out here?  Thank you!

All:
My thoughts on sexual orientation for many years have been:  unless you are actually in bed with the person and performing your mutual stimuli with each other, then you don't know what their preference is.  And, unless the person actually comes out and says they're 'whatever', then who cares;  if it's not hurting you or any children, what's the problem.

Larry
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 03, 2007, 10:14:40 AM
Vecchiolarry-  Your thoughts on Rasputin are all addressed  on the threads that deal with Rasputin. I think the focus on this thread is actually Felix and whether or not any of us has an affinity to him.
 
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ashdean on March 03, 2007, 11:00:31 AM
I am shocked and deeply saddened by the news today that James has left this forum.

James has worked with integrity and professionalism with me on the first cyber Inquest (Nikolai II). He has always been the perfect gentleman and a friend over the years we have communicated privately. We have had our differences on a number of issues concerning the Imperial Family, but at the end of the day we have amicably agreed to disagree.

A forum such as this one draws together numerous personalities, and keeping that in mind, we are all here for the same reasons and that is to share our knowledge and learn what others have to offer. 

James is a valuable, intelligent member of our unique community. His departure will be our loss and I sincerely hope that the matter can be resolved effectively for the mutual benefit of all.

Margarita Nelipa   :)

The genuine shame is that James could not post with the same integrity and professionalism, nor act as a perfect gentleman here in our Forum as you say he has done in private with you.

I don't care a whit about his beliefs and I did not ban him for them, rather, his obnoxious, offensive and frankly inaccurate rhetoric.  You can say what you like, but the WAY you say it is just as important.  James clear homophobic agenda was the issue.  He can not hide behind his "well he was" statements.  He was offensive, rude and unapologetic.  Bob read this thread and fully supports my decision as he himself was mortified and offended at what James wrote.  If James had just apologised, it may have been different, but then, James NEVER apologised for anything, rather continued his bullying and browbeating to further his agendae.  I have never seen him discuss anything, rather he only lectures and pontificates and demeans and offends those who disagree with him.

Discussion is encouraged, inflammatory rhetoric and deliberate offensive behavior are not.

FA

Thankyou FA for your AS USUAL wise,balanced & unbiased input.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on March 04, 2007, 01:17:58 AM
Belochka,

... But people at the time thought differently. Besides, where was Felix supposed to imprison Rasputin (or Alexandra for that matter)? In his basement? Thousands of people died worse deaths than that of Rasputin as a result of Alexandra's stupid actions or inactions.  ... Rasputin himself was a result of Alexandra's actions. Without her he would have been nobody. All that said, I find what happened to Alexandra at the end extremely unjust and tragic. I don't beleive in revenge and punishment. As long as the person is not in a position to do harm, that's more than enough for me. I am not happy that Rasputin was killed either. But in his case I find the alternative less attractive. It made no difference at the end, because he was killed too late. And my last point: Alexandra is more responsible for Rasputin's death than any of the actual murderers. If she had got rid of Rasputin in the first place by sending him back to his village and keepin an eye on him so he wouldn't misbehave, he wouldn't have been killed.

Johnny,

Sadly you have been caught up in the mesh like so many others who lived in Petrograd at the time, believing that Alexandra was responsible for the way the Russian Empire was heading. Radzinski, for which I must give due credit was one of the first to popularily reveal that there were many falsehoods and lies that were deliberately attributed against Rasputin. The emergence of memoirs penned by real individuals who actually met and conversed with Rasputin (very few fall into this category) and including the plethora of documentary evidence emerging from Russia, I have changed my outlook completely. I once also believed those tiresome myths because there was little else to contradict the prevailing stories written even today.

Alexandra was indeed the key to Rasputin's arrangements in Petrograd, but it is misguided to propose that she contributed to Rasputin's assassination. That notion is historically and in reality unacceptable. Few today want to consider the innocence of their association. Fewer want to believe that it was never based on political overtones. A significant number of those who circulated within the Court as visitors made it political and that is was all part of the problematic scenario that others had deliberately created in an attempt to achieve their own selfish political goals.

Felix was very misguided in believing he knew what was best for the sovereign whom he allegedly served with loyalty. Felix breached that loyalty!

The main consideration is that it was not for Felix to make the decision to eradicate Rasputin or any human being that he prefered to dispose of because of some ill conceived notions that circulated the city salons and the Duma. I do not believe that we can excuse the era as the prime reason to justify his actions. It is not a life style choice to act out on a whim one day and then go about your daily duties on the following day as if it was a justifiable and worthwhile evening performance before one's select friends. Murder was considered murder in Petrograd. We today should be able to identify that it was an abhorrent and despicable act. Equally we can not as educated individuals believe that we can be selective and claim that one murder in Petrograd was more preferable over another. Such a notion is inconscionable in our modern law abiding societies.

Felix knew he would be relatively safe because of the shroud of his nobility. Placing this into clearer perspective, any other indivdual without the protection of titles would have had to answer for his crime before a court of law and endure harsh imprisonment.   

Felix had blood on his hands and his conscience never permitted him to take full responsibility for what he had actually done. Bragging is one thing but his less than virtuous attitude against a man who trusted him implicitly - was assassinated by virtue of that alleged bond. Such a man as Felix can not either morally or ethically be afforded the luxury of positive considerations after the fact.

Felix enabled and contributed directly to Rasputin's cold blooded assassination. In my book one can only shudder at the idea of how callous and vindictive Felix proved himself to be. Any admirable qualities that he may have had in the past had diminished to nothing on the day he deliberately chose to mutilate and to kill an innocent and trusting human being who hurt no one. In the absence of any genuine remorse any favorable considerations towards his later deeds are morally unsustainable.

Margarita Nelipa   :)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Johnny on March 04, 2007, 06:56:14 PM
Belochka,

You could be reading my death sentence to me, and I would still be standing there listening to you with my mouth open in awe and admiration. You write so beautifully and in such an impeccanle English that it takes my breath away. After reading your posts I feel so well and elevated that agreeing or disagreeing with your points becomes all of a sudden almost  irrelevant. It's like saying "I disagree with "Anna Karenina" or agree with "Romeo and Juliet". :)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on March 05, 2007, 12:08:09 AM
Belochka,

You could be reading my death sentence to me, and I would still be standing there listening to you with my mouth open in awe and admiration. You write so beautifully and in such an impeccanle English that it takes my breath away. After reading your posts I feel so well and elevated that agreeing or disagreeing with your points becomes all of a sudden almost  irrelevant. It's like saying "I disagree with "Anna Karenina" or agree with "Romeo and Juliet". :)

Thank you Johnny for the generosity of your words.

Best regards,

Margarita  :)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Alixz on March 05, 2007, 02:58:22 PM
I had no opinion of Felix before I read "Lost Splendor.

After I read it, I saw him as vain, empty headed and morally bankrupt.

The man had more money than the tsar and yet gave no thought to anyone but himself.  I know he worked briefly with Ella in Moscow, but that is at odds with everything else that he did with his life.

I totally dislike those who slide through life thinking themselves just slightly above everyone else and the laws that govern everyone else.

That is how I see Felix.  He was superficial in his tastes and his views on life and death.

I would not have liked being around him.  I don't know how he managed to graduate from Oxford as his memoirs seem to show him doing more partying than studying. 

Had he been in power, I would have taken part in a revolution to oust him.  His words in Lost Splendor have that "let them eat cake" attitude that is so often incorrectly attributed to Marie Antoinette of France.

But then, my Puritan ancestors have passed down to me a very hard road to follow.  So I am probably in the minority.  Those ancestors were such joyless souls. IMHO
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 06, 2007, 12:04:21 AM
Felix may well have been all those and more, Alixz. His words do sort of speak for himslef, in a way. Yet, he was also generous, kind and forgiving as well.  I see him as a "larger than life" personality" craving attention and willing to pay for it.  Not very much unlike  current celebs, do you think ?
Yes, he was self-absorbed, but that was the way he was raised, after all. He had servanty to do evrything for him, he knew no other way,. His education, even though Oxford was privilaged.  The Windsor boys were no better at all.
 Now-a-days, the filthy rich are encouraged to at least try to look "as one' with their fellow man, rarely suceeding, imo. He was not expected to, was he?
 Felix had style, flair and survival tactics at his hand.  He used these talents, for better or worse, to benefit his own and his legacy. I still do not see him as a ploitical entity, nor even as an assasin. A player, but not a star in the actions taken place. Perhaps much the "supporting actor" shinng the spotilight on hiself"?
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Alixz on March 06, 2007, 12:13:18 AM
Robert,

I see your point.

But I also see Felix as I see some co-workers I have known.  "Cute" and 'Style" get them in the door, but it can't and never does support them in the long run.

Felix may have had style and panache, but in the end he had nothing more than any other exile.  So he did "dine out" on the story of Rasputin and made a lot of money from suing MGM and writing lots of books.  He had intelligence, but to me it was a weasel's intelligence.

I just know that he would have annoyed me had I met him at a dinner party or God forbid had to sit next to him at table.



Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 06, 2007, 12:27:18 AM
Oh, I think Felix  would have charmed you into his circle of adoring fans in no time.  He used the talents he had.
 I have a friend, a nasty, bitchy queen who makes  the ugliest room absolutely gorgeous. With flowers, fabrics and anything else he can get his hands on. He can kiiss your hand while re-arranging your hair at the same time.
Make you feel and look fab in just a few words. Totally shallow. It works. He gets paid to do it.
 Felix was born to do that sort of stuff. He was good at it. When he had to, he made a living out of it.
 I would have loved watching. Maybe even have bought him a gin.

 
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: scarlett_riviera on March 06, 2007, 02:00:54 AM
Oh, I think Felix  would have charmed you into his circle of adoring fans in no time.  He used the talents he had.
--
I had the same impression after reading Lost Splendour. I also have a friend like him- spoiled, vain, and utterly fabulous, and he can win you over no matter how hard you try to hate him. He may have a lot of flaws, but he also has many good qualities to redeem him. Maybe Felix was the same way? We know that he was extremely vain, shallow, and at times, coldhearted. He even participated in a brutal murder, and had the nerve to brag about it. But he was also very generous, witty and determined- not that any of it excuses his crime. But throughout his life, he helped those who were in need, tried to keep his family together despite the odds, and defended his wife's honor (and getting a handsome reward for it!). It's because of these things and a few more, that I like him. :D
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ashdean on March 06, 2007, 06:38:52 AM
Yes I think Felix was fascinating,exasperating & charismatic...
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lori_c on March 06, 2007, 08:47:58 AM
If there is one redeeming quality about him, IMO it was Felix's love for Irina and his ability to sustain that love and mutual respect and understanding (with help from Irina of course!) all their lives.  That aspect of Felix is something I find redeeming.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Forum Admin on March 06, 2007, 09:09:32 AM
Personally, Felix reminds me of someone I used to know years ago. A wealthy English actor (nobody hugely famous so don't ask, I wont tell anyway) who was the most charming, charismatic, flamboyant, obnoxious, dishonest, loveable, loathsome person I ever knew.  His nickname amongst us, tho rarely to his face, was "Grand Duchess Euthanasia".  He could charm a room full of people, everyone thought he was their best friend, as just as easily offend everyone at the same time, and he would nick the silverware off the dinnertable on his way out the door after dining out on his legendary and highly entertaining and often true stories.

He rode a motorcycle through the front door of a huge mansion, dressed in full Scottish Kilt regalia, right into the dining room of his host during a black tie event.  He presented and served a table full of society matrons and wealthy businessmen a roast turkey, stuffed and shaped like a man's ummmm, privates...I wont' even describe his living room, other than it had fabulous antiques amongst other things. He could also be the most generous of people, giving the cash in his wallet to a hungry homeless woman, and donated a fortune anonymously to charity.

I think of him when I think of Felix.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lori_c on March 06, 2007, 09:18:23 AM
I love the "Grand Duchess Euthanasia" nickname.  :D
It reminds me of Grand Duchess Anesthesia that is a nickname of somebody I know,  who is not quite as wonderful, but awfully deserving of the nickname.

Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Reco on March 06, 2007, 08:59:03 PM

A book written by Edvard Radzinsky published in 2001 (in French) claims that it is the GD Dimitri which drew on Raspoutine. Raspoutine died, not because of the balls or the poison but drowned.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lori_c on March 07, 2007, 08:32:45 AM
As I have often learned on this site, things writted by Radzinsky sometimes have to be taken with a grain of salt. 
But I also have read that water was found in Rasputin's lungs.  Though pictures of the body seem to discount this.  There is a bullet hole directly in his forehead.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Reco on March 07, 2007, 07:18:38 PM
It writes a ball in the nape of the neck.

 I do not know if one can survive long enough this kind of impact.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Belochka on March 08, 2007, 03:00:36 AM
As I have often learned on this site, things writted by Radzinsky sometimes have to be taken with a grain of salt. 
But I also have read that water was found in Rasputin's lungs.  Though pictures of the body seem to discount this.  There is a bullet hole directly in his forehead.

The series of photographs of Rasputin's corpse only tell half the story about the manner of his death. His body was thawed and washed prior to the autopsy.

The lungs did indeed contain "some" fluid. But this fact alone is not necessarily attributable to drowning. Other pathology will help determine that possiblility.

There is certainly a contact wound on the forehead.

But let us return to Felix - one of the most detestable individuals who managed to survive to tell a few tales.

Margarita  :)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ALEXEI_P on March 08, 2007, 11:16:59 PM
I can't say that I liked him, but I would have liked very much to have known him.  He did make a remarkable impression on anyone meeting or speaking with him--even in passing.  He was utterly distinct---clearly of another time and place.

On my brief meeting with him as a young boy I was fascinated by him.  He certainly gave the impression that HE WAS SOMEONE, albeit a grotesque characature of his former self.  He was very gracious and friendly in a formal courtly manner.  I've told of this encounter elswere on the forum, but I still can see that age spotted, heavily made up Lon Chaney-esque face, yellow teeth, polished nails and the smell of lavender whenever I think about him or hear his name mentioned.

Alexei
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: scarlett_riviera on March 09, 2007, 01:21:04 AM
Yellow teeth! But how lucky you were able to meet him. Did he truly wear that much make-up when he was old? I saw somewhere on this forum that he applied such a thick layer of make-up that it cracked when he smiled. I'm not sure if that's a rumour or another funny Felix tale! lol
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: lori_c on March 09, 2007, 09:33:09 AM
I saw a picture of him in Greg King's book and he truly does look like he's Lon Cheney.  Though the picture is in black and white, it does appear he is unnaturally pale which could be accounted for by the make-up. :) 
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 09, 2007, 09:42:10 AM
How interesting. I remember reading that, as a boy, he was fascinated by Xenias perfume when ever she went to visit!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ALEXEI_P on March 09, 2007, 01:09:05 PM

The heavy makeup comment was orginally made by either Noel Coward or Cecil Beaton in their memors in reference to dining with him in the nineteen thirties and has often been quoted.  Coward (or Beaton) said that FF's makeup was so thick that it cracked and chunks of it fell into his soup when he laughed!!  I wonder if lavander was his mother-in-law's (XA) favorite scent (or perhaps his mother's) and he wore it in remembrance.  The scent FF wore was one of those heavy oil based perfumes that lingered even after he had departed.  Not particularly unpleasant, but quite feminine for a man to be wearing in those times when men wore little cologne if at all  He could have been a charachter created by Oscar Wilde (whom I beleive was his favorite author).

Alexei
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 11, 2007, 06:25:26 AM
I think Xenias was either lavender perfume or lillies of the valley and after she had departed he would go around sniffing the air!
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Noelle Royale on May 16, 2007, 07:29:13 PM
Oh I adore Prince Felix Yussopov.Such a flamboyant entertaining dandy.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Taksa on May 18, 2007, 01:26:07 PM
I ABSOLUTELY love Felix. apart from extremely beauty he had a great sense of humour, intellect and non-ordinariness in every activity.
I would love to be acquainted with him veeery much.

Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: GrandDuchessMarissa on May 18, 2007, 02:04:50 PM
 Wow there's not much I can say that hasn't already been said. I don't think he was a cold, heartless murderer. I think he just did what he "felt' he had to do with what he knew at the time.


Don't think he was bad looking either  :P


AND to those discussing the men's room incidents- Once my aunt and I locked the door to the men's room and used it- because the lines at the ladies room were too long  :D
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Taksa on May 18, 2007, 02:11:35 PM
Wow there's not much I can say that hasn't already been said. I don't think he was a cold, heartless murderer. I think he just did what he "felt' he had to do with what he knew at the time.

uhu)) and, as my history teacher says - he was just a veeeeery patriotic person. he really and deeply and  sincerely thought that Rasputin is the main Russian evil.
and it's rather funny to read his memories - his pride of the murder is a little naive and childish ^__^
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: TheAce1918 on May 18, 2007, 03:21:54 PM
I don't like him, but then again, I don't dislike him either. 

Felix was a cmplex kind of character.  He seemed like a very nice and intelligent individual.  The only flaws he posessed were his sexual preferences and the murder of Rasputin.  I don't applaud murder, but I agree with the fact that he was deeply concerned for his country, and if that meant destroying one of the individuals crippling it, then so be it.

I have yet to read Lost Splendor, but it does look interesting, its already on my list of books to read this summer.  ;)
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: joost on January 27, 2010, 04:24:57 PM
since i was 16 i am 30 years collecting books/information on felix and visit the main sites in russia and ukraine. but felix never came alive to me. most of the books/information is written by people that never knew him. most information is factual/stereoptyped/biased/ideolized/sentimental. also his autobiographies are not personal written, it desctibes what he did and what he wanted to tell but does not give much insight in his real personal feelings. i hope in the future a biography is made by people that have first hand information from people that knew or were really close to him. i am sure this man had a double life outside this strict courtlife and expectations that in my opinion did not really fit him. i would like to know your vision on what kind of type he really was.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Constantinople on April 18, 2010, 04:46:43 AM
I think Felix was a product of extreme wealth. I like his fun aspects but think that he could have used his creativity, intelligence and money to help more people. I don't mind his sybarritic side, as it is a good example of what you can do and get away with if you have enough money.  I think it would have been better, though if he spent his family's money on educational institutions, elevating people out of the deep poverty that affected so many people in Russia.  However he was extremely generous and during the war, although he was commissioned as an officer, he never joined a regiment and had no intention of fighting for Russia or the Tsarist regime that gave him all of his family's wealth.  He did however conver part of the Moika palace into a hospital. I like the fact that Felix was extremely welll educated, having been to Oxford. I am sure he was loyal to his friends but I think he had a very weak personality and was indiscrete, not a good thing considering the sybarism he indulged in.  He would have been one of your best bets is getting out of Russia during the revolutions, as he seemed to have the ability to charm the right people and bribe them.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Constantinople on April 18, 2010, 04:49:25 AM
In terms of looks he reminds me of Rudolf Valentino
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Kalafrana on April 18, 2010, 12:15:03 PM
I add myself to the minority who don't like him. I suppose it depends to a considerable extent on one's own character whether one likes him or not. I am put off by his obsession with being the centre of attention, his ostentation and his being outrageous for the fun of seeing the effect it had on the people round him. And I agree with earlier posters that he milked the murder for all it was worth, partly to be the centre of attention, but also for money, having run through the very considerable amount of money and assets he had managed to get out of Russia. He was also careful to avoid any active service in the war (having a grandfather who worked his passage from British Columbia to join up in 1914 I am sensitive on this point).

I like the comment made by Prince Mikhail Andreyevich, when asked whether Yussupov talked about the murder. 'He talked about nothing else!'

And I like the irony that someone who was so obsessed with preserving his looks ended up very bald.

Ann
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Constantinople on April 18, 2010, 03:13:33 PM
Ann part of the dissolutiion of his transported wealth was helping any Russian emigre in Paris who asked for it so ou can hold that against him but my own view is very mixed.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Kalafrana on April 19, 2010, 05:40:55 AM
Where is the evidence of Felix's generosity to other emigres? I'm not suggesting it didn't happen, just asking for sources.

Ann
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Constantinople on April 19, 2010, 08:00:53 AM
Greg King, Jacques Ferrand, the Encylopedia Britanica and a few other sources that İ have forgotten.
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: ashdean on April 20, 2010, 09:53:44 AM
Where is the evidence of Felix's generosity to other emigres? I'm not suggesting it didn't happen, just asking for sources.

Ann
There are many stories of his generosity (and that of his mother during her tenure in Rome).Grand duchess Marie Pavlovna the younger,Pauline Gray (grand daughter of Natasha Brassova) A Kenneth Snowman  and Princess Tatiana Metternich are among thefirst sources that spring to mind
Title: Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on May 03, 2010, 05:30:04 PM
Where is the evidence of Felix's generosity to other emigres? I'm not suggesting it didn't happen, just asking for sources.

Ann
There are many stories of his generosity (and that of his mother during her tenure in Rome).Grand duchess Marie Pavlovna the younger,Pauline Gray (grand daughter of Natasha Brassova) A Kenneth Snowman  and Princess Tatiana Metternich are among thefirst sources that spring to mind

Felix Yusupov did not disclose the extent of his generosity even to his wife. It was only after he died that she found out how much he had given away to those in need.