Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: Danjel on February 22, 2005, 10:18:34 AM

Title: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Danjel on February 22, 2005, 10:18:34 AM
with thanks to Marc, a picture of Grand Duchess Helena Petrovna, born princess of Serbia

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/daan73/Elena2.jpg)

and of her mother Queen Zorka

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/daan73/PrssZorka2.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Annushka on February 22, 2005, 11:33:35 AM
Thank you for posting the picture.  Marie Pavlovna the younger mentioned Princess Helen of Serbia several times in "Education of a Princess."  I had wondered who she was.

Holly
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: kmerov on February 22, 2005, 12:24:34 PM
Helena was Princess of Russia,not Grand Duchess. She married Prince Ioann.
Actually, I think their marriage was the only equal marriage of a Russian Prince.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on February 22, 2005, 12:48:12 PM
Thanks,Danjel for posting these pictures for me!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on May 18, 2005, 11:45:12 AM
--it was a love match between her and Ioann and he was teased by some family for his love affair with Helen

--she was the sister of Alexander I of Yugoslavia (then just Crown Prince of Serbia)

--she actually accompanied her husband (voluntarily) to his exile in Alapayevsk (sp) and spent a rather good amount of time with him and the other prisoners (Ella, Serge M, etc)

--she and Ioann had 2 children (a son and daughter)

--once while in exile someone smuggled an old illustrated magazine with their engagement photos to Helen

--they also received news that the palaces had been taken over and the occupants turned out; worried about their children Ioann decided that Helen should try to retun

--since she had a 'safe conduct' pass signed by Trotsky it was decided that she should go find the children and return as a family; despite the pass the local Commissar only allowed her to go to Ekaterinburg to appeal to the head of the Soviet there

--she was reluctant still to leave her husband and when she went to leave she was so upset the guards allowed the prisoners to come out to wave goodbye; the sight of all of them lined up struck her with an overwhelming fear and shouted for the driver to stop but the family turned and went in after giving her encouraging signals; Helen thus went on

--she was thus on her own to travel and faced several dangers and intimidating situations

--when she arrived at Ekaterinburg she headed to the Atamanoffs' hotel (they were apparently familiar to Helen) and showed them smuggled letters she had for the Imperial family from the others but the Atamanoffs were terrified Helen would be shot if they were discovered and thus Helen burned them

--the head of the Soviet in Ekaterinburg (Beloborodov) wouldn't let her go to Petrograd but he wouldn't let her return to A. either; he was unmoved by her motherly pleas and told her a good mother wouldn't have left them to begin with; she also asked permission to see the Imperial family but this was also denied

--Helen nonetheless wheedled information out of the Atamanoffs as to where the Ipatiev house was and headed there until she was stopped by a sentry; she asked to see his commander knowing that the officer guarding the family at Tsarskoe Selo had been fair; Helen identified herself as the wife of an interned Romanov but also as the daughter of the King of Serbia; the commander was taken aback but refused entry but agreed to pass a message to the Tsar

--the Atamanoffs had a fright when that night a soldier came and asked for Helen but he had only come to pass the message that N&A thanked her for their message and assure her of their well-being; that seemed the end but a dawn 2 soldiers burst into her room and she was taken to the Cheka HQ to face a tribunal

--probably because by now her situation was known and the Serbs were making noises Helen was given her pass to Petrograd; the head of the Serb mission was at her hotel to greet her and gather the children and Helen and take them to Murmansk but Helen was determined to return to A. and Ioann; she would accept his help as far as Petrograd but announced she would not leave Russia w/o Ioann

--the group boarded a train but the bolsheviks uncoupled their carriage and surrounded it and they were taken prisoner on Beloborodov's orders; she was separated from the Serb diplomat and taken to Yurovsky where she was strip-searched and locked in a room

--after 2 weeks Helen was told the A. prisoners had been set free and the White Army was approaching; little did Helen know her husband and relatives had been murdered

--Yurovsky then ordered Helen to dress to go 'to Moscow' but they drove out to a forest where Helen was sure she'd be shot in reprisal for the prisoners' 'escape' but they entered a clearing where a train waited; the Bolsheviks were taking hostages to protect them from the Whites; the party of a few dozen included Mr Atamamnoff and the Serb diplomat; Helen was stunned to see that the only women in the group were Countess Hendrikova and Mlle Schneider who had accompanied the Imperial Family and who had been imprisoned since their arrival; the hostages were herded onto the train which headed to Perm where they walked to the prison and the 3 were placed in one cell

--they soon heard of the IF's fate and after a few weeks the guards came for Hendrikova and Schneider who were shot; Helen was now alone and she was soon moved to a cell w/12 female criminals who were mostly prostitutes who'd killed lovers, husbands or for money; things started off badly but Helen eventually made friends with some and promised to help them rebuild their lives if they survived; Helen spent 5 mos in total in the cell; because no one knew precisely were she was she was believed dead and her father began mourning

--in December the intrepid Norwegian ambassador (who helped as representative of a neutral country) found her ; the guards came for Helen who was sure this was the end but they informed her she would be given a diplomatic passport to leave Russia

--when she reached Moscow though she wasn't taken to the Norwegian consulate but rather to Lubianka prison; the man in charge was known for his cruelty but he actually treated Helen fairly well; he didn't confirm the A. deaths but did those of the IF; he promised to find out about her children and did--reporting they were in Sweden; Helen was supposed to be kept under guard in the prison but Peters obtained rooms for her in the Kremlin; she was given a good meal but her system was so abused that she couldn't eat it and instead gave it to a guard who'd served with her FIL

--Peters attempted to extend her comfort including books and exercise outdoors; he offered her clothing from the Tsarina's wardrobe but, naturally, she couldn't bring herself to accept so he bought her a new one (which she also felt she couldn't accept even though it was Dec/Jan and horribly cold)

--soon Peters gave her the news that she could leave the next evening but had to be off Russian soil w/in 48 hrs; the Norwegian ambassador told her to go to the Consulate and gave her papers to leave; the ambassador and his wife were leaving as well and accompanied Helen to Finland; as she was leaving she got a huge shock when Peters' assistant arrived with a huge bouquet of flowers and a note of apology for his not being able to see her off in person as he'd hoped

--as they reached the Finnish border they had to get out and walk as the bridge was destroyed; just short of the border Helen was stopped and said she couldn't leave; Helen began to panic but Mr Kristianson (the ambassador) gave the guard a hefty bribe and, with one last glimpse back at her adopted homeland, Helen left Russia forever; by the next day she was in Stockholm where Prince Schakovskoi (her BIL's former ADC) was waiting to take her to her children; on the way he suddenly blurted out that her husband had been killed with the others which was the first Helen had heard this; her reunion with her children was strained as they barely recognized her but she saw in them her husband and their legacy

--she went to Paris with the children where her brother Alexander was waiting to take her to Belgrade where she was reunited with her much-relieved father but settling permanently in Serbia was too painful of her as it reminded her of happier times so Alexander bought her a villa in the south of France where she recuperated before moving to England w/her children who were educated there; she later returned to France where she died in Nice in 1962 just short of turning 78 and having never remarried
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Annushka on May 18, 2005, 02:31:31 PM
Grandduchessella,

That was fascinating.  Where did you get it?

Holly
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Teddy on May 18, 2005, 04:29:44 PM
--Helen nonetheless wheedled information out of the Atamanoffs as to where the Ipatiev house was and headed there until she was stopped by a sentry; she asked to see his commander knowing that the officer guarding the family at Tsarskoe Selo had been fair; Helen identified herself as the wife of an interned Romanov but also as the daughter of the King of Serbia; the commander was taken aback but refused entry but agreed to pass a message to the Tsar


Did the family did get this message of Helen?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on May 18, 2005, 05:56:41 PM
Quote
Grandduchessella,

That was fascinating.  Where did you get it?

Holly


I took the information from an article that Royalty magazine did some years back on Helen. I only had the 2nd part though so I don't have information on her pre-Revolution life. The article was more descriptive than what I extrapolated from it but that article was about 6 pages long.  :)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on May 18, 2005, 05:58:20 PM
Quote

Did the family did get this message of Helen?


In the paragraph below the one you quoted I noted this:

--the Atamanoffs had a fright when that night a soldier came and asked for Helen but he had only come to pass the message that N&A thanked her for their message and assure her of their well-being;

Based on that it seems that they received her message whether in its entirety or not I don't know.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 19, 2005, 05:28:02 AM
Wow,this really is great,GDElla!I read in some book that Serbian ambassador in Moscow helped her also!He dressed her as a nun in order to escape,but don't know much more!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Tsaritsa on May 19, 2005, 10:58:11 AM
Helena was very beautiful.  I wonder if there are any pics of her children or the whole family pre-revolution?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: La_Mashka on May 19, 2005, 01:42:36 PM
Amazing story!


She was such a  strong woman!, It is simply incredible how she managed to survive, and how hes decisions were always aimed at being together again with her husband.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Teddy on May 20, 2005, 04:50:40 AM
I'm wondering. Are there no pictures of her during her captivity with the other prisoners?

Because during the captivity of the IF and of GD Michael A. there pictures.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on May 20, 2005, 08:06:11 AM
I've never seen any. I don't even know if I've seen photos of the entire group at all unlike the IF.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on May 21, 2005, 02:05:35 AM
Quote
I'm wondering. Are there no pictures of her during her captivity with the other prisoners?

Because during the captivity of the IF and of GD Michael A. there pictures.


I guess such pictures are non-existent.  :-/

BTW I never saw any picture of Elena's daughter Ekaterina...or picture of Elena and her children after 1918 . There are only photos of Elena, her husband or their son Vsevolod (as a child and as an adult man) in our "Romanovs" Russian books  ???
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Annushka on July 06, 2005, 11:32:26 AM
I believe that Helen wrote a book of memoirs after the revolution.  Does anyone know what the book was titled and has anyone read it?


Thanks,
Holly
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2005, 05:47:04 AM
I also think she wrote something,but just don't know the name...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Suzanne on July 07, 2005, 10:25:09 PM
Regarding Helena's stated visit to the Ipatiev house, where she met with the commander - presumably Avdeev - who agreed to pass on a message to the Imperial family, I wonder why Alix's 1918 diary does not mention this message. In the diary Alix is meticulous about recording who she wrote to and which relatives and friends kept in contact. Helena's memoirs - as described by Zeepvat in Romanov Autumn - mention that Helena recieved a message (verbally, from one of the Ipatiev House sentries) from the Imperial family, acknowledging her inquiry. Quite strange that Alix's diary for 1918 does not mention Helena. Are there any other primary sources that confirm the events described in Helena's memoirs?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 08, 2005, 01:58:57 PM
Could you post the picture again!I can't see anything  :-[
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Speedycat on July 09, 2005, 10:38:47 AM
From "Royalty Digest" #43.  A group photo taken in 1922.  It says that Helen is the one standing to the left behind her brother King Alexander(seated, second from left), but it does not look like her...too old.  Maybe the Revolution aged her, but the lady seated to the left of Alexander looks more like her.  The children seated in the front are Helen's..Vsevolod and Ekaterina.  Many other familiar faces in this picture also ;)

(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7545/helenapetrovna19227dt.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 09, 2005, 01:23:33 PM
Whos in it? ???
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 09, 2005, 02:24:46 PM
I would also like some identification of other people on the photo!About the lady who stands!About the lady standing to the left of King Alexander I of Yugoslavia,it could be Helena Petrovna,and also looks like her!At the time this picture was taken she would be 48 years of age,so...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 09, 2005, 02:25:48 PM
Yes,I forgot!The title of her memoares are ''I was at Ekaterinburg''!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Speedycat on July 09, 2005, 03:49:15 PM
Quote
Whos in it? ???


Unfortunately the magazine only stated the date as 1922 and that Helena was the woman standing behind her brother, King Alexander, to the left.  I see Queen Marie of Romania in the middle and her husband, King Ferdinand, to her right.  Then I think that is Marie's sister Beatrice next and perhaps those are Marie's daughters on the far right seated and also seated next to Marie(immediate left).  In the back I see the Duke of York (later George VI)and Crown Prince Carol of Romania.  I couldn't even venture a guess at the others.  Helena was 48 in 1922?  I thought she was much younger then that.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 09, 2005, 04:04:16 PM
Princess Helena was born in 1884 so she would be 48 at the time!I can recognize two more persons standing on the right!It is Prince Paul Regent Paul of Yugoslavia(second from the right) and his father Prince Arsen of Serbia standing far on the right!The picture is taken in Serbian palace-for sure!The ocation was gathering for the marriage of King Alexander of Yugoslavia with Princess Maria von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen of Roumania!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Speedycat on July 09, 2005, 04:40:07 PM
Wouldn't 1884-1922 make her 38?  Is that Marie(the younger) of Romania sitting to the immediate right of King Alexander?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 09, 2005, 05:33:27 PM
Quote

Unfortunately the magazine only stated the date as 1922 and that Helena was the woman standing behind her brother, King Alexander, to the left.  I see Queen Marie of Romania in the middle and her husband, King Ferdinand, to her right.  Then I think that is Marie's sister Beatrice next and perhaps those are Marie's daughters on the far right seated and also seated next to Marie(immediate left).  In the back I see the Duke of York (later George VI)and Crown Prince Carol of Romania.  I couldn't even venture a guess at the others.  Helena was 48 in 1922?  I thought she was much younger then that.



Well thank you anyway. :)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 09, 2005, 08:19:17 PM
Well Speedycat,you are right!I was always bad in mathematics  :) Anyway,I think,allmost for sure,that this lady witch stands left to King Alexander I of Yugoslavia is his sister Princess Helena Petrovna of Russia!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Suzanne on July 10, 2005, 04:44:50 PM
That picture made me think of that excerpt from Tatiana's letter to her Aunt Olga, on hearing of the engagement of Ioann and Helena, in "The Romanovs: Love, Power and Tragedy". I don't have the book in front of me so I can't quote exactly but I believe Tatiana (aged 14) writes, "Did you hear that Ioann is to be married to Helene of Serbia. Isn't that funny? What if they have children? Can you imagine kissing him?"

Zeepvat states in Romanov Autumn that the marraige was surprise to the entire family since Ioann had considered becoming a monk and he was teased a great deal by his relatives about the romance.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 10, 2005, 07:41:55 PM
Didn't know about those facts!Very interesting!I can't see the picture  :-/
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on July 10, 2005, 08:09:20 PM
In wedding group photo:

seated on ground:
Princess Katharina and Prince Vsevolod of Russia (children of Helena & Ioann)
seated middle:
Crown Princess Helen of Romania (born Greece), King Alexander I of Yugoslavia, Queen Marie 'Mignon' of Yugoslavia, King Ferdinand I of Romania, Princess Beatrice of Coburg (Infanta of Spain), GDss Kira of Russia
standing: Princess Ileana of Romania, Princess Helen of Russia (nee Serbia), Infante Alfonso of Spain (husband of Pss Beatrice), Duke of York (GVI), CP Carol of Romania, Duke of Genoa, Prince Nicholas of Romania, Princess Irene of Greece (later Dss of Aosta), Prince Paul of Yugoslavia, Prince Arsene of Yugoslavia


Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Speedycat on July 10, 2005, 08:28:25 PM
Woohoo ;D Somehow I knew you could name them all GDElla!  Thanks.  SOme of those I would have never guessed.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Teddy on July 11, 2005, 01:06:39 PM
There is so little know about this strong lady, who played a big role in the last chapters of the IF and that of her husband (and the other prisoners).

I would like to know some more information.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Teddy on July 11, 2005, 02:32:40 PM
But always thought that her memoirs were not published.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 11, 2005, 02:36:32 PM
Me too,but several days ago I found some parts of them on the web,so I think either the parts of it or the whole memoires are called ''I was at Ecaterinburg''!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Teddy on July 11, 2005, 02:46:16 PM
Were did you find those parts?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 11, 2005, 07:01:24 PM
I really can't remember,but I do that I was trying to tipe ''Princess Helena Russia Serbia'' or something like that and that's how I found this name or part of the name of her memoires!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 11, 2005, 07:10:20 PM
By the way Princess Helena very much resembles her mother Princess Zorka of Montenegro!And her aunts also...Helena and her two aunts Militza and Anastasia!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on July 11, 2005, 08:09:37 PM
"I was at Ekaterinburg" is the title of them. Atlantis (Greg & Penny's magazine) excerpted at least part of them. Perhaps they have back issues? I think they were originally in French and Penny translated them. I don't have copies myself though.  :(
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Finelly on July 11, 2005, 08:11:29 PM
What did the children do when they grew up?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: lexi4 on July 11, 2005, 10:29:50 PM
Quote
"I was at Ekaterinburg" is the title of them. Atlantis (Greg & Penny's magazine) excerpted at least part of them. Perhaps they have back issues? I think they were originally in French and Penny translated them. I don't have copies myself though.  :(

I've been searching through rare book stores and can't find the book at all.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 15, 2005, 07:10:00 AM
Don't know,I never tried it,try to copy if it's posible...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on July 20, 2005, 03:09:46 PM
Quote
Princess Helena Petrovna as a child with her brothers George and Alexander(future King Alexander I) and with their cousin Paul(future regent)!


Crown Prince George of Yugoslavia (1887 – 1972) was the older brother of Alexander I of Yugoslavia, son of Peter I, King of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes and Princess Zorka of Montenegro. George Crown Prince of Serbia, from 1929 styled HRH Prince George of Yugoslavia, was born at Rijeka. Prince George was mentally and emotionally unstable and was forced to renounce the right to the throne in favor of his brother Alexander on March 15, 1909. He morganatically married Radmila Radonyich (1907-1993)(civ) 1949 (rel) 1955 .
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2005, 06:34:40 PM
Yes,he was very mentally instable!Once he ordered his cousin Prince Paul to ''dance'' while he ''was shooting rats'' between his legs...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2005, 07:44:07 PM
And he(Prince George-Helena's brother) is the only one that was not taken to exile and left in the country during and after the WWII!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marlene on October 18, 2005, 03:55:33 PM
Quote
Me too,but several days ago I found some parts of them on the web,so I think either the parts of it or the whole memoires are called ''I was at Ecaterinburg''!



In the early 1960s,  Helen's memoirs were published in a French magazine (three parts, I think.)  Penny Wilson translated the articles, and the translated articles were published in Atlantis.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Danjel on January 21, 2006, 12:41:40 PM
any pictures of her in old age?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Eurohistory on March 24, 2007, 01:27:10 PM
Dear Friends,

Princess Katherina Ioannovna of Russia (1915-2007) passed away in Montevideo, Uruguay, on March 13.  She was the last surviving grandchild of Grand Duke Konstantin Konstantinovich of Russia (1858-1915), younger brother of Queen Olga of the Hellenes.

In 1937 she married Marchese Ruggero farace di Villaforesta.  The couple had three children: Nicoletta, Fiametta and Giovanni – all with children and some with grandchildren.  In her later years Katherine settled in Montevideo, Uruguay, with her three children.

May she rest in peace...

Arturo
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Maximilian on March 25, 2007, 04:44:57 AM
Princess Ekaterine of Russia was the last Imperial princess born in Russia, and also was the last member of the imperial family born as a result of an equal marriege. With the dead of the last imperial princess of Russia, the Romanov dinasty become to his end.
Can you please offer more informtation about her dead Arturo? I seach in the net and i don't find any thing, i also searched in the Uruguayan newspapers and i didn't find anything. Can you please provide me more information about her dead.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 27, 2007, 12:06:22 AM
Princess Catherine died on 13 March 2007, cf. the death announcement
in Diario El Pais, Montevideo, 17 March 2007 and Le Figaro 24 March
2007, cf. postings at Royals Portal Forum 17 and 24 March 2007. She
has been buried at the Cementerio Los Fresnos de Carrasco.

Dag T. Hoelseth


The above was posted on alt.talk.royalty by Dag Hoelseth. As to a cause of death, HSH Princess Catherine Ivanova was well over 90 years old at her passing. I don't know the cause of death, but certainly her advanced age makes it not unexpected.

I don't know if she was the longest lived of all the Romanov dynasts, but she certainly was one of the oldest. Her parents, as has been noted, were HSH Ioann Constantinovich, who was the oldest son of the famous KR, and Princess Elena of Serbia. With her death, the Constantinovichi are, I believe, extinct, at least in the male line.

Ioann was murdered at Alapaevsk along with Grand Duchess Serge (Ella), Grand Duke Serge Mikhailovich, Ioann's brothers Igor and Constantine, and Prince Vladimir Paley.

None of Ioann's sons had children.

My sincere condolences to her family.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 30, 2007, 05:13:23 PM
Do you know,did his wife Helena reatin her HRH status after the marriage or no?Are there any pictures of Princess Ekaterina?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Seth Leonard on March 31, 2007, 10:19:57 PM
Are there any pictures of Princess Ekaterina?

Marc,
There is a picture of Princess Ekaterina Ioannovna of Russia in Gilded Prism: The Konstantinovichi Grand Dukes & the Last Years of the Romanov Dynasty by Greg King and Penny Wilson.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on April 01, 2007, 02:19:58 PM
Thank you for that.It a new book...Do you know did Helena retain her HRH status after her marriage?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on April 01, 2007, 02:57:09 PM
On Paul Theroff's site it said she and her husband separated (but didn't divorce) in 1945. Is this true? (He passed away in 1970) Did she feel isolated in South America or was she able to see what remained of her Russian family?

It's so sad to think that the large family of the Constantinovichi is extinct in the male line. At least there were female descendants through Queen Olga of Greece and then KR had a few descendants in the female line. Still, such a large family so decimated in such a short period of time.   
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Seth Leonard on May 20, 2007, 12:27:20 PM
A photo of an elderly Princess Ekaterina can be seen here: http://www.riuo.org/RussianVersion/Circular/circular58/IMPEREZ_58.pdf
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 20, 2007, 05:24:55 PM
Anyone who knows Russian?I would like just a short(anything interesting in a few words) translation of this article...so if anyone can help...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on May 22, 2007, 12:56:20 AM
Anyone who knows Russian?I would like just a short(anything interesting in a few words) translation of this article...so if anyone can help...

Marc,

there is a general info on Princess Ekaterina in the article. Such as "was born in", "escaped from Russia wth her Grandmother Grand Duchess Elizaveta Mavrikievna", "married in 1937", "divorced in 1945". Nothing special. :(
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 22, 2007, 04:56:12 PM
Thank you Svetabel,maybe I was hoping for some new info  :-[
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on May 30, 2007, 07:23:33 PM
Here is GDss Maria's statement:

Dear Countrymen!
It is with deep sadness that I must inform you of the repose on 13 March 2007 of our relative, Her Serene Highness Princess of the Blood Ekaterina Ivanovna. She was 92 years old.
The deceased princess was the daughter of His Highness, Prince of the Imperial Blood Ivan Konstantinovich, who died a martyr’s death at Alapaevsk, along with the Holy New Martyrs Grand Duchess Elizabeth Fedorovna and the nun Barbara, with Prince Ivan Konstantinovich’s brothers, Prince Konstantine Konstantinovich and Igor Konstantinovich, with Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich, and with Prince V. P. Paley.
While living in exile, Princess Ekaterina Ivanovna, heeding the precepts of her own heart and the will of her August Mother, Princess Elena Petrovna, scrupulously and faithfully observed the laws and traditions of Our House. Her Serene Highness was always interested in events taking place in the Motherland, and she sincerely loved Russia.
I ask all our countrymen to pray for the repose of the soul of the newly-departed Princess Ekaterina Ivanovna. May the Lord grant rest to her soul in the abode of the righteous.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: helenrappaport on July 04, 2007, 03:59:11 AM
I'm not sure where to post this appeal and I know this thread has not been active for a while but here goes.  I  have been trying for months to track down a copy of Princess Helena of Serbia's memoir 'I Too Was in Ekaterinburg'. Although this was published in Atlantis Magazine: In the Courts of Memory vol 1. no. 3 1999, I cannot, despite extensive searching, find a copy of Atlantis anywhere in any library in the UK where I live.  I tried emailing Greg and Penny on the FOTR website about getting a copy and had no reply. My letter to their PO Box address for the magazine has been returned unopened as no longer valid.

Neither have I been able to trace the full publication details of the original French version - which came out in 'L'Illustre' some time in the 1950s as 'J'Etais a Ekaterinbourg'.

Does anybody on the list have a copy of the Atlantis issue that they could photocopy and send to me here in Oxford? I would be happy to pay the costs involved.  If so, please contact me off list.  Thank you so much, Helen
PS I shall be in Ekaterinburg 12-20 July for the Royal Days, if anybody on the list is also by chance going.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: amelia on July 04, 2007, 12:00:51 PM
Dear Helen,

It is not a book, it is an article, very interesting.  It is a chapter of a book Romanov Autumn. You can contact Arturo Beeche at Eurohistory, I think he has it.  I have mine in my house in Florida, so I really can not help you before you go to Ekaterinburgh.  I could send you a copy by the end of the year when I will be down.

Anyway, please port as many photos from Ekaterinburgh as you can, I am sure it will please all of us. Have a great trip

Amelia
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Seth Leonard on July 19, 2007, 01:56:00 PM
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4042/2mg6120cp6.th.jpg) (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2mg6120cp6.jpg)
Picture of Pss Ekaterina Ioannovna at a recent memorial service for the late Princess & GD Vladimir Kirillovich

Source: http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/231513.html
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 19, 2008, 06:55:27 PM
One question:What kind of a status did she have in Russia?She was married to a Prince of Imperal blood who was styled His Highness and Helena,as a daughter of a King had the status Her Royal Highness...Was she styled Her Royal Highness Princess Helena of Russia,just like Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna kept her Imperal status in Britain or just Her Highness Princess Helena of Russia?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 19, 2008, 07:14:14 PM
Her Highness Princess Ivan (Elena Petrovna) of Russia (princess of the blood)

I think 98% right.  :)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: StevenL on July 19, 2008, 07:30:54 PM
Her Highness Princess Ivan (Elena Petrovna) of Russia (princess of the blood). I think 98% right.  :)

Normally a royal woman who has higher rank than her husband keeps her rank.
Princess Patricia of Connaught is a famous exception to the custom (because she requested so),
but Elena, as the only daughter of a King, is unlikely to have ceased being H.R.H.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 19, 2008, 10:02:16 PM
That's why I asked this question...And I think that she is princess in her own right...as much as I know,in my country and I think in Russia Princesses or Grand Duchesses are styled in their own name,si I think she would't be Princess Ioann,but Princess Helena of Russia,but with what style?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 19, 2008, 11:12:50 PM
possibly,

HRH Princess Ivan of Russia, Helen of Serbia. ????

 look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_of_Serbia)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2008, 07:20:58 AM
Ough,that's why I ask,'cause I am not sure :-( if someone knows it wold be great...Princess Helena of Russia or Princess Ioann of Russia?Styled Her Highness or Her Royal Highness after her marriage?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: KarlandZita on July 20, 2008, 09:07:51 AM
What were the relations between Helen and his father, King Peter I of Serbia ? I know Alexander, the future King Alexander I of Yugoslavia venerated his father and suffered a lot of his death.

In it was the same for Helen?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2008, 09:16:11 AM
She had very good relations with her father,but not so with her brother Alexander....she criticised him a lot and he didn't like it...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 20, 2008, 11:42:02 AM
"She was born Princess Helena of Serbia, and was known as Elena Petrovna after her marriage."


IN the link i posted, so basically,

HRH Elena Petrovna of Serbia, Princess Ivan of Russia.

ether way.

Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: KarlandZita on July 20, 2008, 12:37:05 PM
She had very good relations with her father,but not so with her brother Alexander....she criticised him a lot and he didn't like it...

Thanks for the info, Marc.

I think that, despite her widowhood, King Peter I was a good father.

But do you know why these critics helen on Alexandre?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2008, 11:04:48 PM
Because of the way he treated their brother George...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on August 06, 2008, 03:14:32 PM
From "Royalty Digest" #43.  A group photo taken in 1922.  It says that Helen is the one standing to the left behind her brother King Alexander(seated, second from left), but it does not look like her...too old.  Maybe the Revolution aged her, but the lady seated to the left of Alexander looks more like her.  The children seated in the front are Helen's..Vsevolod and Ekaterina.  Many other familiar faces in this picture also ;)

(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7545/helenapetrovna19227dt.jpg)

The prince on the second row is no the Duke of Genua, he's the Prince of UDINE (Ferdinando di Savoia-Genova), son of the Duke of Genua, he became Duke of Genua in 1931.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on January 18, 2009, 01:20:19 PM
Engagement picture of Helena and Ioann:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/ielserb.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 18, 2009, 07:39:36 AM
And one more photo of Helena:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/HelenPetr.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: imperial angel on May 18, 2009, 02:53:42 PM
I really enjoyed reading about her in Romanov Autumn not too long ago. She was quite interesting, especially in regards to how she was in Ekatrinburg I believe when Nicholas and his family were there and tried to see them. Her story isn't often told, and yet it should be. It's also intriguing that her brother Alexander might have married Olga N.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 19, 2009, 08:47:16 AM
Well,her life was indeed interesting,but had a sad end...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: nena on May 19, 2009, 10:12:03 AM
I think grandduchessella once posted am article about Helen's thoughts during that exile, cca. 1918. I found very interesting possible marriage of Alexander and Olga too.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 21, 2009, 09:49:24 PM
Well,her life was very interesting,although there is a "bit of mist" about her life after her exile from Russia...At the time of her marriage to Prince Ioann of Russia,her father King Peter I of Serbia borrowed money in order for her to have a proper dowry as she entered an Imperial family...

To her Yugoslav family she was known under the nickname of Jaba...Although she was a very strict person,she was always loved by her Yugoslavian family who didn't have the chance see her that much because she lived abroad...

Until WW II she was sort of well off due to appanage she received from her native country Yugoslavia,but after proclaimed republic she was impoverished and lived in a village Eze near Nice...in just one rented room.Too proud,she wouldn't receive any guests and didn't let anyone get close to he until her deathr,not even her nephew whom she met for the first time in 1945 on a family gathering in London where she was with her daughter Princess Ekaterina of Russia,Marquise de Villaforesta...

Her nephew Prince Tomislav,whom she called Tommy than wanted to help her and asked Serbian Orthodox Church in Trieste to send some humanitarian help to her,but they said they were prevented to do it because she was technically a Princess of Russia and that the Russian Orthodox Church should do it...Than he arranged for her to get every day some money and food through the secretary of his personal friend Aga Khan and it was a surprise that she didn't decline...few years after that she died.

Ten years after her death in 1972 there was a commemoration gathering in her name in London.There Prince Tomislav of Yugoslavia saw his first cousin Prince Vsevold of Russia with whom he was a friend afterwards...He said that he has been informed about the help Prince Tomislav arranged for his mother in Nice and that he is very grateful for that,but a great silence after that prevented them to continue to talk about that subject...Year after that in 1973 Prince Vsevold died whom his cousin Prince Tomislav described as a very pleasant person,although very lonely and maybe a little "lost"...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: violetta on May 26, 2009, 06:28:53 AM
I read inStaffn Scott that Elena Petrovna,after all  her sufferings in Russia after the Revolution,didn`t want her children to learn and speak Russian.They say, this fact ws very much regretted by the children themselves.Is this true?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on May 26, 2009, 08:52:03 AM
I read inStaffn Scott that Elena Petrovna,after all  her sufferings in Russia after the Revolution,didn`t want her children to learn and speak Russian.They say, this fact ws very much regretted by the children themselves.Is this true?

Yes, the children really didn't speak Russian. Prince Vsevolod all his life felt uncomfortable about this fact.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 26, 2009, 10:02:56 AM
Didn't know that...what languages did they speak?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on May 26, 2009, 12:01:54 PM
Didn't know that...what languages did they speak?

English and French for sure.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: KarlandZita on January 06, 2010, 11:42:48 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/helenvonserbien.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on January 07, 2010, 07:28:33 PM
Thank you for the photo...first time I see it ;)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashanti01 on January 08, 2010, 03:28:14 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/KR/helenap-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on January 08, 2010, 04:19:57 PM
This one is even better...love those unknown photos... ;)

Thanks
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: KarlandZita on January 31, 2010, 09:31:19 AM
Another portrait of Helen :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Serbian%20royals/Kralj%20Petar%20I/helenvonserbien.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on February 10, 2010, 01:29:26 AM
I've been searching for some years any photos of Elena with her children.

This one I had posted a long ago at some lost thread. This is only a sketch from the photo I think, as well as a composite with added Prince Ioann.

Ioann, Elena,Vsevolod

(http://www.picatom.com/1a/%20%20_%20-79-th.JPG) (http://www.picatom.com/1a/%20%20_%20-79.html)

I've seen Elena's children in the photos with their grandmother GDss Elizaveta M. and even with King Nikola of Montenegro, their great-grandfather. But with Elena itself...except that group-shot of the Balcan Royals at the previous page.


Marc,

Possibly do you have some more of Elena and her children?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on February 10, 2010, 05:49:59 AM
Unfortunately no...there are no books that cover Elena and her family...you can find her picture here and there regarding that she was kings daughter,but aside from that nothing :-( She was rather an unknown figure in Serbia-that's why I was interested in her life...so,if you find anything,please post...

One more picture of her with her aunts Xenia and Vera:

http://www.montenegrina.net/images/film/princeza_ksenija/princeze_ksenija_vjera_jelena.jpg
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on February 10, 2010, 06:10:29 AM
Unfortunately no...there are no books that cover Elena and her family...you can find her picture here and there regarding that she was kings daughter,but aside from that nothing :-( She was rather an unknown figure in Serbia-that's why I was interested in her life...so,if you find anything,please post...



Oh, I wished I found some more...Only hope that the Russian Archives contain unkhown sources and someday someone unfold for us something new...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on February 10, 2010, 08:36:39 AM
Wasn't that sketch one Charlotte Zeepvat did for Romanov Autumn?

The only one I can think of seeing was a group shot--Elena with her children (and other royal guests) at the wedding of King Alexander of Yugoslavia and Princess Marie.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on February 10, 2010, 08:48:39 AM
Wasn't that sketch one Charlotte Zeepvat did for Romanov Autumn?



Unfortunately I don't have the Romanov Autumn. That sketch was published in the beginning of the 1990s in the memoirs of GD Gavriil.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on February 10, 2010, 08:53:43 AM
Oh, okay. I believe it is in RA though. You have to get that back if at all possible! CZ did do many sketches in it herself. She's quite talented and it's a wonderful whole family history.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 03, 2010, 03:51:50 PM
I have the french version of the memories J'étais à Iekaterinenbourg from L'Illustré (Zwitserland)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 04, 2010, 01:39:30 AM
Did you read that?Anything interesting that you could share with us?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 04, 2010, 07:35:31 AM
First excuse me for my english, my language is french or spanish. I received the "memories" from a grandaughter of Helena, Maria-Maddalena.
I read this memories. I think grandduchessella tell the most importants facts on may 18 05 . They begin in St Pétersbourg january 1917 when Helena is going to Elisabethgrad (north Odessa) with Spalaïkovitch minister of Serbia to see serbian refugiees and 2 divisions of Serbian volunteers soldiers
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 04, 2010, 09:03:05 AM
Yes,he helped her to escape from Russia with the "secret" permission of Bolsheviks who didn't want to damage their already damaged relations with Kingdom of Serbia for one Princess,so they let her go...Mr.Spalajkovic was Deputy of Serbia to Russia and was a personal friend of my great-great-grandfather...Does she mention her relations with other royal members?

Her brother Prince George loved her very much...Ones he heard about her possible fate in Russia during the revolution he said:"My Elena can not be rejected as an old dress." and Elena didn't know at that time that these words will follow her for the rest of her exiled life...

He also wrote about her when the revolution started:"Fortunately that Elena was not then in St.Peterburg,but with children at the other end of Russia.From there, with the help of Serbian deputies in St.Peterburg Dr.Miroslav Spalajković and pulled himself and the children to France. "

He wrote a letter to his sister saying:""Elena,I love you so much and can not say how saddened I am that you are struggling so with children.And I'm the hell:my brother Alexander I,for his account and the government,driven from the scene.He invented the disease of nerves and placed me behind bars in madhouse near Toponica."But,the letter never arrived to his sister who was at that time in Nice.

In his words Elena had the ability to carry happiness and well as a misfortune.He remembers when he went to the wedding in St.Peterburg. He escorted her to the road of imperial splendor and brilliance.

At that time Serbian Press wrote extensively about the wedding of Princess of Serbia and the Romanov Prince.

Prince George notes: "The press printed this wedding only see the state interest,that interest which must be a slavery to royal children.The terrible state interest that deprives us of beauty of an ordinary life."

He had a long talk with Elena after the wedding.He congratulated her on everything and,by the way,on valuable gifts from the Emperor and whole Imperial family.She just answered: "DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS THE PLEDGE OF HAPPINESS?"

Her nephew Prince Tomislav of Yugoslavia also wrote about her in his memoirs:"In 1959 I was with my wife Margaretha in Southern France.Then I found out that Aunt Elena is in Nice.I have heard she is living very difficult in a rented room,impoverished,with no income and even lacking food.I tried to find her and help.She, however,rejected any help and even a meeting.No one,not even me,was not allowed to see her in such dismal condition.She persisted in that until her death."
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 04, 2010, 04:42:31 PM
She tell that in this time (january 1917) she was living in Pavlovsk with her two child.  She remember also her wedding with Joan on september1911. The day before the wedding it was a great dinner at Peterhof with 1000 guests. She was on the left of the tsar and on her right was granduchess Wladimir. The tsar asked her to call him Nicki because she does now part of the family. She refused and said that for the first time she will disobey his order. She was afraid of her father who was sitting near the imperatrice. When she was a child her father Peter call her "la pétroleuse" like Louise Michel a famous anarchist in this time, she was not a revolutionary but rebel against injustice and understanding. 
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 04, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
Every detail about her life...friends,relations with the family,later life etc. is for me an interesting one because she is known so little...she grew up in Switzerland and Russia...was for very short time in Serbia and not much is known about her,unlike her brothers and cousin Paul who all had their memories published here in Serbia,so we had a chance to have an insight about their lives...

Here is what Margaret Eager,who was a Governess at the Russian Court wrote about Princess Elena Petrovna of Russia in her memories:

"She was a real beauty with a pretty face and very sharp look.She was a very simple girl,despite the fact that she comes from the royal family.She and Prince Ioann were a real couple in love,to general surprise of the entire Romanov family,because this gentle and introvert Ioann,before meeting Princess Helen,thought of becoming a monk."
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 05, 2010, 04:25:41 AM
You wrote that in 1959 she was very poor but i have a picture of her Villa Trianon in Saint-Jean Cap Ferrat. I visited it in 1988 that was a very beautiful house. When did she lived in this house ?

Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 05, 2010, 05:45:41 AM
Don't know...maybe she says that in was her villa in her memoirs?Her nephew Prince Tomislav of Yugoslavia wrote that in 1959 she was living in a rented room and that she didn't want any help,although he later states that she received something he sent to her through his friend Aga Khan who was his host in Southern France...

This is Villa Trianon in Saint-Jean Cap Ferrat that she lived in:

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691b.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691c.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691e.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691g.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691h.jpg


But,it says that she was living there from 1919 until 1953 when it was occupied by the King of Laos.It is quite understandable that she could afford this villa until WW II because she received her pension as Princess of Yugoslavia,but later...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Margot on March 05, 2010, 05:52:21 AM
Omg talk about pink overkill! The villa is rather bijou and charming but pink paths take the biscuit!

If that is the same villa where Elena P. holed up I wouldn't have complained, although if it had had all that pink everywhere I may have gone a bit dotty after a while!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 05, 2010, 05:56:11 AM
Yes,but she lived there only until 1953...not when Tomislav visited Southern France...when Yugoslavia was Kingdom she received the money as its Princess,but as of November 1945 the money stopped coming,so no wonder she spent almost everything until 1959 when her nephew wanted to visit her and said that she was living in a rented room...

And if you compare all this to her home palace in Russia:

http://www.pavlovskmuseum.ru/#
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 05, 2010, 07:51:58 AM
I visit Pavlovsk in june with Maria Maddalena daughter of Ekaterina. We were received by Ludmilla Koval who wrote books  over KR "poet and citizen". It was very interesting.

How can I insert a picture in this message?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 05, 2010, 01:09:36 PM
Where were her children when she was living in pauper conditions?After all her daughter was married to a Marquis Farace di Villaforesta and her son Vsevolod was a bonvivant who married 3 times...they could help her after all...that always looked strange to me...


P.S.Anekezout,it's easy,open an account on photobucket.com,upload the picture and copy IMG Code(that is the fourth row below the picture when you upload your picture) and then paste this same IMG Code here...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 06, 2010, 09:04:38 AM
[(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae145/anekezout/Russia%20Helena/Helena.jpg)img][/img]
I've try for the picture. It's Helena but I dont know when. Can you help me?
In 1939 Vsevolod was living in London. After this time came the war.
In 1937 Ekaterina married Ruggiero Farace but she saparated 13 november 1945. Her husband was ambassador Budapest, N-Y, Montevideo. But as you said the childrens were in conditions to help Helena.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 06, 2010, 02:35:27 PM
I am glad you succeeded in posting pictures ;)  I think this one was not seen before and it's new one for me also,so I couldn't tell from which year it is ;(

Does she mention in her biography with whom(royalty wise) she stayed in contact after the revolution?A lot of royals were haughty,even in exile and she was described as a simple Princess so it would be great to know her circle of royal/noble friends...

If you have some more pictures from her biography I would be grateful to see them...thank you!

Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: amelia on March 07, 2010, 07:09:13 AM
Is her biography in English and what is the title?

Thanks Amelia
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 08, 2010, 09:44:56 AM
This is not a biography in fact : "J'étais à Iekaterinenbourg" is the story of her lasts months in Russia  january 1917, her cautivery and in 1918 when she escape in Finland.
The picture does'nt come of the biography. It's a private picture.
 
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 09, 2010, 07:34:39 AM
Well,the picture should be more valuable because of that...thank you...if you find anything more from her or her family please post...it would be great to see it!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 10, 2010, 03:53:29 AM

(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae145/anekezout/Ekaterina/Ekaterina.jpg)
Here a picture of young Ekaterina Ioanovna
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 10, 2010, 02:56:58 PM
http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae145/anekezout/svevolod.jpg
Here a picture of her brother Svevolod.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 10, 2010, 04:14:12 PM
Thank you...your pictures are priceless because of those much less known royals such as Vsevolod and Ekaterina...

It seems all male children had this same "girlie" hair-cut..must have been a fashion...

If you find some more photos of Elena or her children please post...I posted everything I found in the books on previous pages...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 11, 2010, 04:31:18 AM
I'm looking for informations about the mother of Helena, Zorka of Montenegro. How she married Peter and about her earlier died.

About the souvenirs of Helena I have no much time but I'll try to translate the most important of the story.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 11, 2010, 07:39:53 AM
Ok,great,can't wait :-)

I can provide you some information about Elena's mother Zorka(means Aurora),but I also think you have them in Balkan thread under:King Peter I and his family...try to search there or just use search above and hope you will find...if you have some further questions,ask ... :-)

P.S.Her real name is "Jelena" Karadjordjevic,but due to translation to other languages they often use Helena,Helen or Elena...in Serbia if one is Jelena,she can't be Helena or Elena and vice versa...names Jelena,Helena and Elena in Serbia are different names and although they share the same roots,they are not synonyms for just one specific name...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: nena on March 12, 2010, 01:34:48 PM
I am pretty certain that her name is derived from Famous 'Pretty Helen' of Greece. (I had to interrupt about her name and its variations). Also, all forms - Helen/a, Jelena,Yelena, Elena are the same.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 12, 2010, 02:33:48 PM
I am pretty certain that her name is derived from Famous 'Pretty Helen' of Greece. (I had to interrupt about her name and its variations). Also, all forms - Helen/a, Jelena,Yelena, Elena are the same.

Yes,same origin...but if you are from Serbia,as I presume,you know that if one has a name Helena,she is not called Jelena and vice versa...here,those two names are not version of one name,unlike maybe in other countries..those names are here different,although of same origin...yes,derived from famous "Pretty Helen" of Greece. :-)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 13, 2010, 05:40:38 AM
Was she not called Jabe? I see that on a picture
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 13, 2010, 07:17:37 AM
It was Aunt Jaba,as she was called by her nephews,sons of her brother King Alexander...that was her nickname and should not be mixed with other forms of names.It was similar as her husbands name was Ioann and his nickname was Ioanchik.In Serbia names Helena or Elena are independent names...not forms or nickname for Jelena,that's the difference,unlike in other languages where name Jelena(with J) as such hardly exists and other forms were used(Helen,Helena,Elena etc.) which exist as such in other languages for that name,which was more natural for them...

She can be called of course as anyone likes,but her name was Jelena,her nickname was Jaba(maybe in French written Jabe)

P.S.Off topic-for Nena-few examples of what I thought:

1.Elena Mijatovic Karic(socialite) can never be called Jelena or Helena instead of Elena in Serbia,those names when written about her will never be mixed because they are different...

2.Jelena Tomasevic(singer) would never be called Elena or Helena instead of her own name of Jelena...

3.Helena Minic(actress) would never be called Jelena or Elena because it would look ridiculous...

So,all those names are of same origin and in other lands they are often forms of one same name referred to one same person,but in Serbia if one has a name of Helena,she will never be mixed with names Elena or Jelena,if one is Elena she will always be called Elena,not Helena or Jelena instead and of course Jelena as most common name in Serbia would not me mixed as such with Elena or Helena...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Anekezout on March 13, 2010, 09:28:02 AM
Hey Marc
On the picture it is Jabé. Thank you for the informations.
Do you understand french? Here is a shample of the story "J'étais à Iékaterinenbourg" end of chapter one ; the correction down is handwriting of Helena

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae145/anekezout/JtaisIekaterinenbourgendchapI.jpg
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 13, 2010, 09:35:57 AM
Unfortunately I don't understand French :-( ...you are so great to post this...it would be great if someone who speaks English and French at the same time could translate this... ;)

I presumed that French version of Jaba would be Jabé,thank you for this information...she was known in the family circle as aunt Jaba according to her nephew,Prince Tomislav of Yugoslavia,who wrote about her and her nickname in his biography...so,I also presume that maybe her photo where she signed herself by a nickname was for someone from her family circle or for someone who was close to her and called her like that...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on March 14, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
This was ID'd as Ioann & Helen but who is the boy? It says it was taken at Pavlovsk in Aug 1917

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/russia/BoEisQgB2kKGrHqYH-CwEttJ1qWlBLmD-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: V_Corona on March 14, 2010, 11:46:38 PM
Nice picture, granduchessella!!! I think is Prince George Konstantinovich.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Teddy on March 14, 2010, 11:49:34 PM
She looks like Princess Marie Bonaparte. But probaly she is not.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on March 15, 2010, 05:53:06 AM
This was ID'd as Ioann & Helen but who is the boy? It says it was taken at Pavlovsk in Aug 1917



Ioann, Elena and Georgiy, Ioann's brother.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on March 15, 2010, 06:29:23 AM
It was Aunt Jaba,as she was called by her nephews,sons of her brother King Alexander..l

Funny nickname if one knows how it sounds in Russian ; ). "jaba" sounds like a word in Russian means "toad".
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 15, 2010, 09:57:10 AM
Ough...that is really nasty :-) hope her nickname didn't derive from Russian language,but who knows...because in Serbian language it doesn't mean anything in particular...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Kalafrana on March 15, 2010, 11:12:50 AM
It just goes to show that what sounds quite reasonable in one language may be disastrous in another.

Going slightly off topic, there is a possibly apocryphal tale that the reason the Vauxhall Nova never sold too well in Spain is that 'no va' means 'doesn't go' in Spanish.

Ann
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on April 08, 2010, 07:39:37 PM
Quotes from Marlene's blog about Italian royals where she mentions Helene:

"The Queen's younger sister, Princess Vera of Montenegro, and their niece, Princess Helen of Serbia, the daughter of King Peter, have also become roller skating enthusiasts, as have the queen's ladies in waiting."

"The presence of Princess Vera and Princess Helena has made the court much gayer this winter and spring than at any time since the accession of King Victor Emmanuel."
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: newfan on July 29, 2010, 05:19:34 AM
What did she do after WWII?work?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on August 01, 2010, 02:01:35 PM
Was she not called Jabe? I see that on a picture


Queen Helena of Italy called her Jabè, they were very close and Elena Petrovna spent so much time in Italy, sometimes even four or five months, as I read in old newspapers, she mainly stayed for the holiday in Racconigi and San Rossore, but at least in one occasion she spent the whole winter in Rome, and that year rumours spread that she would marry the Conte di Torino.
Princess Elena wrote a short biography of her aunt but it was never published, only some parts of it.
It also surprises me that she did not attend to the marriage of her daughter in Rome, quite strange, isn't it.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on August 01, 2010, 10:19:27 PM
Was she not called Jabe? I see that on a picture



It also surprises me that she did not attend to the marriage of her daughter in Rome, quite strange, isn't it.

She didnt' attend her son's marriages either. To Lady Mary Lygon, first wife of Vsevolod, she just sent some family jewels.
Possibly she didn't approve Ekaterina's choice, also she became very moody after the tumultuous revolutionary years in Russia and her escape from it. She definitely wanted loneliness.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashanti01 on August 02, 2010, 10:49:06 AM
Where there any suitors before Prince Ioann? It seems rather odd that Princess Elena would have married so late for a royal.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: grandduchessella on August 02, 2010, 10:57:54 AM
Was she not called Jabe? I see that on a picture



It also surprises me that she did not attend to the marriage of her daughter in Rome, quite strange, isn't it.

She didnt' attend her son's marriages either. To Lady Mary Lygon, first wife of Vsevolod, she just sent some family jewels.

Just as one of those side notes, Mary Lygon was tangentially related to Princess Daisy of Pless. Her mother and Daisy's brother-in-law, the Duke of Westminster, were siblings. She was also the great-niece of the 2nd Duchess of Teck (nee Margaret Grosvenor) the sister-in-law of Queen Mary. Mary's father 7th Earl Beauchamp was very well-connected and well-known at the British court. The family suffered a lot of bad luck when it came to producing sons (either they died unmarried, with  daughters or childless) and her brother was the last Earl.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on August 02, 2010, 11:44:40 PM
Where there any suitors before Prince Ioann? It seems rather odd that Princess Elena would have married so late for a royal.

She was an Orthodox Princess, and this at once limited the suitors, and with ambitious father.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashanti01 on August 03, 2010, 01:20:00 AM

She married at twenty-seven? Even with limited suitors, she was pretty and I would have thought there would have been someone who showed interest before she eventually married in 1911.

Also, does anyone know how tall Princess Elena was? Thanks.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on August 03, 2010, 11:52:21 AM

She didnt' attend her son's marriages either. To Lady Mary Lygon, first wife of Vsevolod, she just sent some family jewels.
Possibly she didn't approve Ekaterina's choice, also she became very moody after the tumultuous revolutionary years in Russia and her escape from it. She definitely wanted loneliness.

I did not know, thank you Sveta.
I think she must have become very moody, since the end of the revolution I don't think she visited the italian royal family again, her son and her daughter used to pay visits but she probably remained always in the cote d'azur.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on August 03, 2010, 11:53:46 AM
Quotes from Marlene's blog about Italian royals where she mentions Helene:

"The Queen's younger sister, Princess Vera of Montenegro, and their niece, Princess Helen of Serbia, the daughter of King Peter, have also become roller skating enthusiasts, as have the queen's ladies in waiting."

"The presence of Princess Vera and Princess Helena has made the court much gayer this winter and spring than at any time since the accession of King Victor Emmanuel."

Marc, do you remember the year?
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashanti01 on August 06, 2010, 12:12:51 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/KR/jelenaserbia001-1.jpg)
Helena
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashdean on August 06, 2010, 11:36:25 AM
Quotes from Marlene's blog about Italian royals where she mentions Helene:

"The Queen's younger sister, Princess Vera of Montenegro, and their niece, Princess Helen of Serbia, the daughter of King Peter, have also become roller skating enthusiasts, as have the queen's ladies in waiting."

"The presence of Princess Vera and Princess Helena has made the court much gayer this winter and spring than at any time since the accession of King Victor Emmanuel."

Marc, do you remember the year?
Victor Emmanuel became King in 1900
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashanti01 on August 11, 2010, 04:25:44 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/KR/serbroyalchildjelena001-1.jpg)
1903  Prince George & Prince Alexander in the back standing. Sitting Princess Helena and her cousin Prince Paul.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashanti01 on October 07, 2010, 11:01:06 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/PrincessHelenaPetrovna-1.jpg)
Princess Elena Petrovna
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on November 20, 2010, 10:35:18 PM
Too bad there aren't any of her in color ;-(

Meanwhile,some more pictures of her:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Jelena.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/jelena2.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/jelena3.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/jelena4.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: ashanti01 on November 21, 2010, 11:23:31 AM
Beautiful images Marc. The last photo is especially nice.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: nico20_1 on November 23, 2010, 06:08:48 PM
Regarding reply #126 - French translation.

I'm from Montreal and can translate the passage in French at the bottom of the page. It says:

Next Week

A Serbian uniform saves the Grand Duke
 - Trotsky grants a "laisser passer" - a right to free passage
 - I accompany my husband to Ekaterinenbourg


The last line is a spelling correction. What was originally written - ("foux malade") - was corrected to "Fausse malade". It means a false sickness at the Tzar's doctor....or in other words  -  feigned illness and was treated by the Tzar's doctor. HRH corrected the misspelled word.


Interesting.....hope this helps! :)
C
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on November 27, 2010, 03:48:52 PM
I have read in newspapers few days ago that there is one theory about her escape from Russia and that is that Trotsky helped her because he was grateful to her father because he lived one time in Serbia when no other country wanted him...they even mention part of Belgrade where he lived,but this is not jet checked(not even a written document that he ever lived in Serbia)-that's why it's just a theory...and that she left Russia thanks to him!
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on May 28, 2011, 06:04:11 AM
One more picture of Helena as a girl:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/jelena-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on August 26, 2012, 02:10:11 PM
Princess Helena in mourning dress with her brother,uncle and cousin after her father's death:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Jelena-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: KarlandZita on December 15, 2012, 07:41:58 AM
Another portrait of Helen :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Serbian%20royals/Kralj%20Petar%20I/helenvonserbien.jpg)

Whole photo :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/271231jelenas.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=271231jelenas.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on April 18, 2013, 09:43:07 AM
Part of the marriage contract between Princess Helena and Prince Ioann:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/contract_zps0ed76dd6.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/contract_zps0ed76dd6.jpg.html)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/contract2_zps6fd90308.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/contract2_zps6fd90308.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on June 02, 2013, 01:36:27 PM
Some more information about Helena and her life in Russia:

She was very much loved by her Russian family.She guarded her husband's younger siblings,she often walked with her sister in law Tatiana,organized hot-chocolate "parties" for his younger siblings George and Vera,often corresponded with "Aunt Olga",Ioann's aunt.She was called "чародейка"(enchantress) because of her influence over her husbands family.

As a wife of the oldest son of this branch she was expected to take many duties.As she once said,she has passed the exam set by her mother in law Grand Duchess Elizaveta Mavrikievna and her ladies in waiting by successfully organizing Christmas charity for the poor kids.Later,more and more duties just followed.

Soon after she married Balkan wars started in her native Serbia.She asked for permission from her father King Peter I and from the Emperor Nicholas II to get back to Serbia and start leading medical detachment as a nurse.She got 200 rubles for that detachment from her father in law,Grand Duke Konstantine and everyone of the Konstantinovichi clan came to say goodbye at the train station.

She stayed with her medical detachment in Serbia not just during the first,but also during second Balkan war.One of the soldiers said that during the war she followed her father everywhere on the war line and worked from dawn 'til late in the evening.

It is interesting that she was followed everywhere in her journey by her lady in waiting-Princess Scherbatova,who also worked as hard and also as a nurse.I am not sure,but probably her lady in waiting was Princess Alexandra Alexeevna Scherbatova(1881-1920),daughter of Prince Alexei Scherbatov and Countess Maria Stroganova.

When Helena returned to Russia she took several nurse courses and officially became a nurse in the First Imperial Army,alongside Grand Duchess Maria Pavlona-younger and followed the Army everywhere.But,because of the Imperial army retreat,they were forced to close the hospital and return to Sankt Peterburg.

She often corresponded with her husband in French and called him "my sweet Prince Jean" and after his death she never thought of starting another kind of relationship.

It is interesting that when the revolution came,she managed to safely help almost everyone who served her,from her German maid Johanna to S.N.Smirnov,who was the manager of the Pavlovsk estate...

During the exile,she choose firstly to live in Serbia because there lived the "people she could still trust".She lived there only until her father's death in 1921 and due to the difficult relationship with her younger brother-King Alexander,she left to France soon after...it is said that after her exile she hated everything connected to Russia due to her family's fate and all the bad memories that prevailed...

Here is a color version of Helena with her brothers:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/jel_zpse3c71008.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/Album%201/jel_zpse3c71008.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: amelia on June 02, 2013, 02:23:55 PM
Is there a book about her? Thanks Amelia
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Kalafrana on June 03, 2013, 03:32:16 AM
The family resemblance was very strong.

Ann
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2013, 06:15:34 AM
Is there a book about her? Thanks Amelia

I am not sure,but I think there are some memoirs in French which were either never published or published in French after the exile...But,I am sure Svetabel will know more about this...

The information I got about her were collected from the news articles that were published due to 50 years of her death...

She has grown up changing countries(Montenegro,France,Switzerland,Russia) and her actual life in Serbia was short and therefore not much is generally known about her...and many people in Serbia today don't know that King Alexander I,who is generally well known,even had a sister...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on March 22, 2014, 02:45:37 PM
Princess Helena as a child with her brothers...

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Helena_zpsef8e3a53.jpeg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/Helena_zpsef8e3a53.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on July 21, 2014, 02:52:42 PM
Could you tell me if the woman next to Queen Elena of Italy is or is not Princess Elena Petrovna?
I am not sure...


(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/nikkskalosso/1930-6.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/nikkskalosso/media/1930-6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on July 22, 2014, 05:40:02 AM
Could you tell me if the woman next to Queen Elena of Italy is or is not Princess Elena Petrovna?
I am not sure...


(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/nikkskalosso/1930-6.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/nikkskalosso/media/1930-6.jpg.html)

That's Maria, youngest daughter of Queen Elena.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on July 22, 2014, 11:37:13 AM
I am not sure she is Princess Maria... I mean I've seen hundreds of photos depicting her and I don't recognise her in that woman...
But she must belong to the montenegrin family, as she has their tipical facial features.

could she be the daughter of Elena Petrovna? she married in Italy after all.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on July 22, 2014, 11:39:09 AM
or maybe you're right and she is Maria of Italy...
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on July 22, 2014, 02:11:50 PM
I am not sure she is Princess Maria... I mean I've seen hundreds of photos depicting her and I don't recognise her in that woman...
But she must belong to the montenegrin family, as she has their tipical facial features.

could she be the daughter of Elena Petrovna? she married in Italy after all.

Daughter of Elena Petrovna had another type of face: she resembled more her Russian ancestors . That girl/woman does look like Maria of Italy, IMHO.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: gleb on July 23, 2014, 10:53:37 AM
Sveta, you were right she is Princess Maria, I found a newspaper article with a photo.
Am I to delete the posts? I mean as there is no real connection with the Imperial Family of Russia...

in the photo you can see only the little Prince of Naples, Princess Jolanda, her husband and the King..
maybe the woman on the left could be Prascovia Sheremetev, becouse she was there that day..but she is half hidden.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: amelia on July 23, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
Svetabel,

Is there any published book about her? Thanks Amelia
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on July 25, 2014, 03:17:40 PM
Svetabel,

Is there any published book about her? Thanks Amelia

No, there is not in Russian any books. Only mentions in bios of GD KR and his sons.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 09, 2017, 12:40:49 PM
It seems there is a book written about Princess Elena Petrovna:

https://i-podmoskovie.ru/php/podmoskovnii-letopisets/news/11627-vyshla-novaya-kniga-o-knyagine-elene-petrovne-serbskoj-printsesse-karageorgievich.html
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on July 10, 2017, 11:05:00 AM
Yes, finally the book has been issued. The author has been waiting for this event for years as even in Serbia no one was interested in issuing a biography on Princess Elena. The author whom I know personally has done a terrific work , she is such a serious researcher.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Marc on July 10, 2017, 12:36:11 PM
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people in Serbia doesn't even know King Alexander had a sister... they barely know anything about royal family in general and are not even much interested.

For now, the book is only in Russian, but there are tendencies that it should be translated to Serbian, based on Serbian ambassadors words.
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Mark_Chicago on July 11, 2017, 06:16:45 PM
Does anyone know the isbn for this book?  Thanks
Title: Re: Princess Elena Petrovna, wife of Prince Ioann Konstantinovitch
Post by: Svetabel on July 13, 2017, 06:46:01 AM
Does anyone know the isbn for this book?  Thanks

978-5-00016-006-0.

For now the book can be found at only one bookstore in Moscow. http://pravslovo.ru/catalog/filosofiya-publicistika-istoriya/artikul_701396?view=1