Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: Dimitri on April 22, 2004, 10:48:12 AM

Title: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Dimitri on April 22, 2004, 10:48:12 AM
What does everyone think about Dimitri?
He is one of my favourite members of the Romanvs aftyer NAOTMAA.
Do you think it was right that he betrayed the Imperial family, and did what he thought was best for mother Russia, by killing the horrid Rasputin?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Arleen on April 22, 2004, 12:27:37 PM
Dimitry to me is one of the MOST interesting characters.  I wish someone would do a really good book on him.  He seemed to me to feel so totally alone for all of his life and even died alone in Switzerland.
He never squealed on the Rasputin murder, which I certainly ADMIRE.  But some books even have HIM as the shooter of Rasputin as he was escaping.  I wish we knew for sure.  In the Michael and Natasha book it seems like he was in love with her also and saw her again in England after the revolution, but she wasn't interested.  Then it seemed he was at very loose ends and living with Coco Chanel, ending up marrying an American, but nothing gives you the impression he loved her or was happy.  Why did he end up ALONE in Switzerland.....somebody who knows something please jump in here.....Arleen  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Dimitri on April 22, 2004, 02:14:08 PM
Arleen,

i'm so pleased that someone else also likes Dimitri. I to really admire the way Dimitri never split the beans on the rasputin murder, while prince felix Yusupoff told everyhthing in his book.

It seems that Dimitri really liked the playboy life, as during his exile he spent beyond his means ans always booked the finest suites in hotels such as the Ritz.
it didn't take him long to squander all his remaining money.

it was really sad that he ended up dying alone away from his family and homeland.

Don't you think it was really awful that after he died his ex-wife sold some of his belongings for $8000?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Arleen on April 22, 2004, 03:33:22 PM
I remember reading somewhere that Demitri Pavlovich was in love with one of the girls.....does anyone know about this??

I can imagine that he was torn his life thru because he betrayed the family in the Rsputin killing...(even if he believed what he did was right)..he seemed to be very sensitive.  After all he lived there in AP with them for several years and Nicholas treated him like a son.  

Did he die in poverty??  

Arleen  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Charles on April 22, 2004, 03:51:29 PM
I believe there was some discussion that he would marry Olga.  Not sure who started this discussion, perhaps it was Alexandra.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: JM on April 22, 2004, 05:32:52 PM
What's up with Dmitri and his sister's relationship? I've read that she had some feelings for her brother that weren't appropriate. Can anyone elaborate?

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on April 22, 2004, 07:01:57 PM
Whoops! Here we go again!!!     :P      ::)     ;)

Check out the bios for Dmitri and Marie on this website. Both are exceptionally well done.

Also Greg King's book about Prince Felix has some interesting material re: Dmitri.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 23, 2004, 12:47:31 AM
Thank you for the compliment.

Regarding the poster who talked of DP's marriage - there was a significant age and cultural differences between Audrey and Dmitri. Nonetheless, they were married for over 10 years and had a child together. It's very difficult to know from the outside looking in whether or not they were happy and what their feelings for one another were. However, given the many losses DP endured (all his male authority figures murdered + his only brother), he was probably as "happy" with Audrey Emery as he was capable of being.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Candice on April 23, 2004, 02:36:12 PM
So sad to hear that DP died alone. Did he remain in the America? Where is he buried and when did he die.  Does anyone know?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Lisa Davidson on April 23, 2004, 02:43:21 PM
Dmitri did not remain in America. He sent his son Paul, Prince Ilyinsky, to America to complete his education and to ensure his son's safety during the war (WWII). DP remained based in Paris, and went to Davos, a popular Swiss resort, where he was treated for tuberculosis. He died there in the early 1940's.

Dmitri is buried along with his sister, Marie Pavlovna, at the later's son's property on the Island of Mainau. Lennert, Count Bernadotte, is still alive and living there. The property was a gift from his Swedish grandmother.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: JM on April 24, 2004, 03:12:22 PM
What were Dmitri's true feelings toward GD Michael's wife Natasha? It seems he was quite taken with her.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 25, 2004, 12:19:15 AM
I haven't read his papers, so my answer is speculative. It appears that DP was quite "taken" with his cousin Misha's wife. There are photos of him at their home, and still more photos of them meeting in exile in England. My guess is that this relationship never went beyond the flirtation phase. I base this on the fact that both were "available" when they met in exile, yet there was apparently no progession. Natasha was probably not interested in anyone else, and DP went on to an affair with Chanel and marriage to Miss Emery.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: DOMOVOII on July 02, 2004, 04:34:06 AM
In Michael and Natasha, there is reference of N  writing to GD Michael mentioning GD DP calling him "Lilies of the Valley's", much to Michael's chagrin.
GD Irina chose between Felix Y and GD DP, ("close" friends that they were.)
Alexandra F had a great fondness for him but I see this more as a vicarious pleasure of a mother of an invalid able to enjoy having a  healthy boy around the palace, active, well and able bodied.
Perhaps DP marrying GDss ON may have been the last chance saloon for the Dynasty, two young new fresh people, both hugely russophile, sensitive to others situations (re ON nurses duties ind the eddifying effects they had on her) could if put into position have satisfied the lust for change above all costs. Who can ever know.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on July 02, 2004, 12:06:56 PM
There's a good bit of DP in Flight of the Romanovs. Someone well-known (I can't remember right now) commented on him sitting alone in a corner at a casino in Monte Carlo, watching the blackjack players but unable to afford to join in. He was romantically involved for quite awhile in the early '20s with Coco Chanel, with rumors even circulating of an engagement, but he decided he was ready to go the "morganatic" route, I guess while hopes of a restoration were still afloat. Of course, he later did go just this route. Coco was apparently pretty bitter since she wrote of the Grand Dukes in Paris (with apparent direct reference to DP) that they possessed good looks, green eyes, broad shoulders, but there was nothing there but hollowness and vodka. MP wrote that he was born basically a golden child, possessed of all gifts of charm and looks but basically squandered them, floating along in life. She also wrote of others envy of him as he was an acknowledged favorite of the Tsar when so many other GDs were outside the circle. FOTR also notes the final break with FY with Dimitri writing him a letter following FY's book & lawsuit against MGM blasting him for exploiting Rasputin's murder when DP assumed they would never mention it and FY was exploiting it for money he really didn't need. He concluded by saying FY owed his life to DP's family connection & royal status but also acknowledging that his exile had saved his life. He now considered their relationship irretrievably broken.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kostya on August 19, 2004, 02:02:57 PM
Does anyone have any pictures of Dimitri Pavlovich?  and yes i admire him very much for the family duty he had by trying to protect the royal family from the havoc Rasputin was doing.  He was brave to take the punishment he was given to exile in Persia.  He not once betrayed his pact in not saying what happened that night of the murder unlike Felix.  

If anyone has any pictures please.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on August 19, 2004, 07:27:53 PM
Good bio right on this site:
 http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Dmitri.html
Also this site has good photos with a bio (pictures are .bmp so I can't post them here):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Pavlovitch_Romanov

I was able to visit Mainau when I lived in Germany and it is SO gorgeous. He must have the most beautiful resting spot of any of the exiled Romanovs. Mainau is known for it's beautiful flowers and it lives up to its reputation. I know I have a picture somewhere, just let me search for it.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: bookworm on August 19, 2004, 07:36:59 PM
I've always thought Dimitri and his sister Marie had one of the saddest stories in the family. His mother died giving birth to him, which probably caused him some guilt, and then his father chose to marry someone the Tsar didn't approve of. Dimitri probalby felt at some level that he wasn't good enough for his father. Sergei loved them, but he was apparently also very strict and Ella was sometimes cold. Poor little rich boy and girl!
But Dimitri was also apparently dissolute and aimless and unable to make a life for himself after the Revolution.

I think the murder of Rasputin was quite brutal and sickening and in the end it didn't do a whole lot of good. But in 1916, if I were in Dimitri's shoes, I might have thought it was necessary to save my country and the Romanovs. I think Dimitri was probably right there and quite possibly fired the fatal shot, despite Felix Youssopov's reticence. It may have been the one courageous act of his life. Who knows what would have happened if he had done it a year earlier? Tsar Dimitri and Tsarina Olga Nicholaivna? Their plan to marry him to Olga and put him on the throne doesn't sound bad to me. He could hardly have done worse than Nicholas.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: BattleAngel on August 19, 2004, 08:26:57 PM
I've always felt nothing but sympathy for Dimitri.
He had the shell shocked look of someone from under whom life made a habit of pulling the proverbial rug.

And so it did!

From the loss of his parents one to death, which while painful IS at least understandable (especially considering the childbed mortality rate of the times) and one to far more ambiguous fate--to the complete dissolution of his world Dimitri had to cope with much.

I find it hard, however to believe that he and GD Misha's wife actually...er...crossed the Rubicon.
Strikes me as a bit more of a "flirtation" than anything else, but since I wasn't invited to any of their tete-a-tetes (what's up with THAT?) I can't say for sure.

Mary
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on August 20, 2004, 12:15:22 AM
I'm glad you liked my biography of Grand Duke Dmitri.

I don't think there is any evidence of an affair between Natalia Brassova and Dmitri. He was a big flirt, but she was committed to Michael and would have been foolish to sleep around. I don't think she was foolish.

Dmitri most definitely was not dissolute and did make as much of a life for himself as he could as an exile. The thing is, he was an exile. He never stopped wanting to go home to Russia - a feeling he shared with nearly everyone who had to leave due to the Revolution - whether they were a Romanov or not.

I know it fits the stereotype to say he was dissolute and couldn't adjust - but it's simply not true. Dmitri was ill for many of his years in exile - and his marriage did not last. Other than that, he was able to live life as it happened to him. He left a son, his sister, and many friends, all who remembered him with great warmth and affection. I received a very sweet note from a man whose father had been one of Dmitri's ADCs. The son had been named Dmitri in the Grand Dukes' honor.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Martyn on August 20, 2004, 11:32:54 AM
Personally I think that Dimitri was very taken with Natasha Brassova in the same way that he had been taken with Irina Alexandrovna; there might have been an element of wanting something that you can't have.
From Natasha's point of view, Dimitri was a useful tool for making Misha jealous.  She very much enjoyed the attentions of other men and enjoyed flirting but I think she drew the line at anything more; I believe that she had to make it clear that their relationship could go no further than friendship.
Interestingly, when they met up again in England after the Revolution and the death of Misha, when seemingly thre was an opportunity to form a relationship, the attraction seems to have dissipated and they went their separate ways.
"Lily-of-the-valley" was a vaguely patronising nickname for Dimitri that Natasha and Misha used in private; I'm not sure that she used it to his face..............
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Guest on August 20, 2004, 11:40:07 AM
Does anyone here have a scan of the picture from Michael and Natasha where Dmitri is sitting on a couch with her? He looks very handsome and alluring. No one else is in the room, except whomever took the photo!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kostya on September 01, 2004, 01:03:01 PM
For me the story of Dimitri is one of sadness because he sounds like a person wo only was looking for love.  since his birth he wa deprived of his parents his mothe rdied and his father was sent inot exile.  he with his sister was sent to live with his aunt and uncle but still that was denied him his uncle was assasinated and his aunt dedicated herself to the church.  the he was sent to liv ewith his cousins no doubt they loved him and had a special care for him but their first concern was alexsei and his illness.  he then turn to felix which yes had peculiar taste offered him love of a brother or even a father.  the love Dimitri was denied all his life.  his asistance in the plot to assasinate rasputin was yes to save the empire and hid beloved ousin but maybe it would give him the love he desreately needs from either his cousins or other members of the imperial family.  in the end he got none.  he was sent away from everyone including felix.  in the end he died just like he live alone with no wife and son by himside.  for me his story is one that is really sad among others of the Romanov's.  To me he was only looking for love any love given he was grateful for it  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: AnBhanfhaidh on September 04, 2004, 01:15:20 AM
Also, the tuberculosis might have had something to do with how ravished he looks in that picture.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga on September 04, 2004, 03:50:51 AM
Are there some photos of him pre-revolution? I don't recall seeing many.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on September 04, 2004, 11:54:20 AM
Yes, the tuberculosis was part of the 'toll' I mentioned. He suffered a lot emotionally & physically in his short life.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Lisa on September 04, 2004, 12:18:17 PM
(http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/0/04/Dmitri_pavlovich2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on September 06, 2004, 02:54:57 PM
I posted the photo of his and his sister's crypt at Mainau under the Marie Pavlovna & Lennart thread if anyone wants to see it.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Leuchtenberg on September 06, 2004, 10:49:43 PM
After their divorce, did Audrey marry a peer?  I ask this because the posted photograph of her in this thread shows her wearing the robes of a baroness.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on September 06, 2004, 11:17:39 PM
Quote
After their divorce, did Audrey marry a peer?  I ask this because the posted photograph of her in this thread shows her wearing the robes of a baroness.


She married in 1939 Dmitri, Prince Dzhordzhadze at Maidestone, England. One notation said he was 'crated' Prince Dzhordzhadze so I don't know if he was 'real' nobility or not.

I thought that photo looked very British, but that's who it was ID'd as.  ???
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Alexa on October 06, 2004, 04:57:47 PM
Quote

She married in 1939 Dmitri, Prince Dzhordzhadze at Maidestone, England. One notation said he was 'crated' Prince Dzhordzhadze so I don't know if he was 'real' nobility or not.
 
I thought that photo looked very British, but that's who it was ID'd as.  ???



Maidstone, huh?  That's just down the road, so to speak, from my mom's hometown, and I've spent many a day there since childhood.  Intersting to see a Romanov connection so close to "home." (Yeah, there are a lot of Romanov connections in my home town of NYC, but somehow it seems more intersting when it's rinky-dink Maistone.)

Alexa
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 06, 2004, 05:59:13 PM
Does anyone know if he actually had true romantic feelings for any of OTMA girls?

Also, the thing with Irina, does anyone know more about that subject?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 06, 2004, 11:40:52 PM
Irina was one of the most beautiful women of her age, and the fact that she was the Tsar's only niece only made her more desirable. It's hard to say what exactly her interests were beyond the comfortable life that Felix was able to provide her for such a short time.

It is clear, however, that she preferred Felix to Dmitri so it is most likely that this attachment was casual in nature and that she was not very interested in DP.

None of OTMA were able to form mature romantic attachments due to the war, Revolution, and how the girls were raised. I've always thought had things been different that DP would have made Anastasia a wonderful husband.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kostya on December 01, 2004, 03:22:14 PM
One question that is alwyas on my mind is what exactly were the girls thoughts on DP and Felix's friendship?  and what did tey think of Irina's chose of husband in Felix?   Dimitri was obviously the ladies man but were there other members of the family that liked Dimitri?  

much is known about Dimitri from the outside but what about the inside?  are there no diaries or letters that look inside his thoughts and what he say in the situation hapening in Russia and the IF?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on December 01, 2004, 03:35:39 PM
Quote
One question that is alwyas on my mind is what exactly were the girls thoughts on DP and Felix's friendship?  and what did tey think of Irina's chose of husband in Felix?   Dimitri was obviously the ladies man but were there other members of the family that liked Dimitri?  

much is known about Dimitri from the outside but what about the inside?  are there no diaries or letters that look inside his thoughts and what he say in the situation hapening in Russia and the IF?


Yes the IF loved Dmitri like a son, and I heard at one time hoped for marriage between him and Olga. Felix reported in his memoirs that Dmitri was jealous that Irina chose to marry him instead and it hurt their friendship for awhile. But what really ruined it was Felix bragging about killing Rasputin when Dmitri  thought they should all remain silent on it. Dmitri never left his acount of the Rasputin murder, he didn't want to. I don't think he left a diary either.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Janet_W. on December 01, 2004, 04:39:21 PM
Lisa, I'm curious as to why you think Anastasia would have been a good match for Dmitri?!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga on December 02, 2004, 09:32:40 AM
What was Dmitri Pavlovich's relationship like with Paul Ilyinsky?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Jane on December 02, 2004, 02:31:30 PM
Off-topic I know, but Olga, your avatar has me laughing my head off.  Very clever (and naughty  ;))

Jane
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on December 02, 2004, 02:37:31 PM
Quote
What was Dmitri Pavlovich's relationship like with Paul Ilyinsky?


In Flight of the Romanovs, Paul was quoted as saying he was 10 when he and his mother left for America when his parents broke up. Dmitri patted him, gave him some toy soldiers and told him to be a good soldier. I don't think he ever saw him again. Paul was only 13 or 14 when Dmitri died and he had been sick with TB the last 2 or so. Also the war was going on and travel was hard. I don't think they had much of a relationship at all, but I bet they would have later if Dmitri had lived.

Who is that in your avatar and what is the joke?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga on December 02, 2004, 09:26:21 PM
Thankyou Jane.  ;)

It's Lenin.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on December 02, 2004, 11:49:37 PM
According to Countess Nostitz's memoir, The Countess of Iowa @ p 185:

Grand Duke Dimitri was involved in killing Rasputin "not to save Russia"  as he so loudly claims, but to revenge himself upon the Empress for having broken off his engagement to her eldest daughter Olga.  Alexandra having heard ... that her favorite in the family ... was leading the life of a young "blood", surrounded by decadent, idle sycophants, grew frightened and influenced her husband to withdraw his consent to the marriage. Dimitri never forgave, and forgetful of all her past kindness, took a horrible revenge.

I wonder about the veracity of these words ....  :o
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: BobAtchison on December 03, 2004, 11:26:35 AM
I think Felix, Dmitri and Purishkevitch may have had more than one reason for being involved.  Revenge for various personal slights or insults could be a reason.  Purishkevitch felt Alix had slighted him many times and did not appreciate his war work.  He hated her.

I also believe a larger part of the Romanov family was involved in the Rasputin murder plot - an effort to exile/murder Alix would have been next.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on December 03, 2004, 11:31:10 AM
Also Zenaida and Ella had both been disowned by Alix because they spoke out against Rasputin, and Old Count Felix lost his job in Moscow for talking down Rasputin to Nicholas.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Johnny on December 03, 2004, 07:32:45 PM
Quote
II also believe a larger part of the Romanov family was involved in the Rasputin murder plot - an effort to exile/murder Alix would have been next.

I don't think that Felix told even half the story of Rasputin's murder in his book. I certainly agree with Radzinsky's explanation that Felix couldn't even shoot a mouse, and it would take an atletic Dimitri to shoot and kill him. Purishkevich in his book claims to have killed Rasputin. But he lies in order to save the Royal youth's name and honor. He also lies about the identity of the woman (Irina) that was the carrot to woe Rasputin to Felix's palace. He calls her Countess X.
So even after reading Felix's book we don't really know what happened that night. I actually wonder why Dimitri was so upset with Felix, since Felix's tale is not really accurate. Felix was nice enough to keep many names out of his book.
Alexandra liked Dimitri because he was cute, funny and fun to be with. So initially she approved of him as a match for Olga. However, Dimitri had a very loose and promiscuous lifestyle. He practically lived a double-life. Many believed that his friendship with Felix, at least in the beginning, was not all that platonic. It was this rumor that reached Alexandra and spoiled every thing. After that Alexandra simply wouldn't want Dmitri near any of her girls. I don't think Dmitri would have made a good husband to any of Alix's daughters, since they were all very naive, decent and religious. Everything that Dimitri wasn't. He would have been bored to death with them, and probably found a mistress right away.
By the way, Dimitri was not the only one fascinated by Michael's widow. Apparently she was one of the most fascinating, elegant and intelligent women around.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Lanie on December 03, 2004, 09:48:20 PM
Well, Alix certainly let Dmitri stay around them since there are photos of Dmitri with the girls and Alix in the Imperial Train in 1916 during a visit Alix and OTMA took to General HQ.

The only place I've heard of the rumor of Olga and Dmitri being engaged was from Radzinsky, thus I take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on December 03, 2004, 10:16:54 PM
Quote
I think Felix, Dmitri and Purishkevitch may have had more than one reason for being involved.  Revenge for various personal slights or insults could be a reason.  Purishkevitch felt Alix had slighted him many times and did not appreciate his war work.  He hated her.

I also believe a larger part of the Romanov family was involved in the Rasputin murder plot.


Somewhere in my books there are statements which claim exactly this (but where?). Many wanted a piece of Rasputin, including some of the Ministers of the Duma.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: BobAtchison on December 04, 2004, 10:21:35 AM
We know that the family had been actively plotting against Nicholas and Alexandra since September 1916.  They were incredibly open about it, Victoria Melita was blabbing to everyone about it.  Romanovs were talking to Military officers, foreign diplomats, members of the Duma about getting rid of Alix or overthrowing Nicholas.  Even his brother Michael was involved.

I can't believe the Okrana wasn't aware of this and reported it to Nicholas.  They were always taking these plots to him in order to persuade him to submit to greater protection.

I am certain Nicholas knew about Buchannan's (the English Ambassador) involvement.

When Rasputin was murdered the girls knew that their mother was the real target.  I'll bet Nicholas had a full run down of who had been involved in the plots and what they were saying.

I still maintain that the Generals and some of the family conspired to get Nicholas away from Tsarskoe Selo so they could separate him from Alix and force concessions or an abdication from him.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on December 04, 2004, 10:28:27 AM
Wasn't there one active plot to oust Alix,  lock her in a monestary and install Nikolasha as regent for Alexei?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga on December 04, 2004, 10:50:54 AM
Quote
Wasn't there one active plot to oust Alix and lock in a monestary.......


Ah, the favourite method of getting rid of unwanted Russian Tsaritsas/Tsarevnas.

Buchannan was involved?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on December 04, 2004, 10:54:08 AM
If Buchannan was involved, that would be more evidence for the theory that the British agent was in on Rasputin's murder.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on December 05, 2004, 12:49:46 AM
Quote
I can't believe the Okrana wasn't aware of this and reported it to Nicholas.  They were always taking these plots to him in order to persuade him to submit to greater protection.


Perhaps it was because of so many plots and palace intrigues, the Okhrana did in fact step up security. No ordinary person could ever directly approach Nikolai ... and his Generals respected their Commander too much to permit anything untoward to happen to him. As for Alexandra I believe anything was possible. She certainly was the stone around Russia's neck. It is not unrealistic to believe that Nikolai was indeed persuaded to leave the palace in order to force his hand.

I strongly believe that Nikolai was not ignorant of all these issues. He would have been kept fully informed. He would have been aware that there was intrigue issuing from his own family circle. His own inaction was a testament to that. Only because his Military Generals failed to support him any longer did he finally give in.

It was not the family, nor the intrigues, it came down to his genuine affection for Russia and her destiny. His primary concern was for Russia to win the war.  

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Richard_Cullen on December 05, 2004, 03:00:40 AM
Although I have posted similar elsewhere I do have to say that the Radzinsky's case against Dimitry does not withstand even the most basic evidential test.  He has chosen to use parts of the evidence from the GARF files and elsewhere that support his case and to ignore other evidence that goes against him.  

His use of the Efimov as a witness is flawed because he has not revealed all that Efimov says.  He has also failed to grasp the fact that the story about how Rasputin met his death is flawed.  The final shot (if we can even be sure of the sequence of shots - but in all probability the final shot) was at point blank range to the forehead.  No question about it - Kossorotov the original pathologist says so, Prof Zharov and his team of Russia's top pathologists in Russia confirm this.  It jumped off the page at me, it bears not only the 'Standsmark' but also has the 'starring' effect you would expect to see in a close contact firearm wound to the forehead.

Dimitry was a complicated person and his association with Felix highlights - the very intense letter you can find under Yusupov's correspondence on this site highlights this.

I think I have previously mentioned a recent Russian study into Yusupov's sexuality that I believe shows he was at least bi-sexual and in all probability gay.

As Irina's parents were concerned about her marraige to yusupov, even in his coded language it is around his sexuality the same can be said of Alexandra's and Nicholas' view of him.  I think the case is pretty compelling that he was in (or had been in) a sexual relationship with Felix.  If you read Lost Splendor carefully you pick Felix's comments up concerning this suspicion.

As gay'bi-sexual relationships were common place amongst the IF and nobility he would have still beeen liked.  KR was a well known 'gay' who at one time was being bribed by an army officer.  Sergei Alexandrovich, Dimitry's guardian was strongly suspected of being gay.

Felix was in an intense relationship with Rasputin - and Dimitry may well have been jealous.  So you can add this to the reasons why he might want to murder Rasputin.

But how many motives you might come up with you are laking one ingredient - evidence, there is just not one piece of evidence that supports the fact that he was the murderer.  Radzinsky set out to show he was - and says he shows that he did - well if you don't worry about evidence then he did - in his mind.

There is so much nonsense that yusupov and P protected him because blood could not be on his hands.  It made no difference under Russian law whether he shot Rasputin or was, as Y's and P's evidence shows an active participant in the murder.  Nicholas said that 'Dimitry has blood on his hands.'

Richard
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga on December 05, 2004, 04:22:25 AM
Felix Felixovich's relationship with Grigori Yefimovich was sexual, yes?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Johnny on December 05, 2004, 05:28:37 AM
Felix and Rasputin???!?
Nah!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Richard_Cullen on December 05, 2004, 05:35:36 AM
Well I find this interesting - sometimes Radzinsky seems convenient when he is saying Dimitry is the murderer at other times, in respect of Y's relationship with r you don't want to accept it.

Without pulling the book out you can find a quote from one of the If about Y's relationship with R - 'carnal' is the description.  It would fit in with Felix's sexuality, a lure for R.

You can even find it in his descriptions of his encounters with R - being hypnotised and not knowing what he had done - really???

Richard
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on December 05, 2004, 11:34:51 AM
I do believe Felix was gay with Dmitri, but not with Rasputin. Rasputin did not go with men, and Felix was obsessed with youth and beauty and I don't think he'd have been sexually interested in a scary looking, usually messy, middle aged man.

Felix wrote of seeing naked 'old and ugly' people at a ball in France and how he fled in disgust!

Never in my life have I seen anything so disgusting. A crowd of half-naked people rushing about excitedly in an overheated atmosphere heavy with the odor of perspiring bodies. Nakedness, which can be so chaste when associated with youth and beauty, is obscene in the old and the ugly. Most of the people at the ball were hideous, and all of them were drunk; they had lost all sense of decency and gave free play to their bestiality. Sickened by this revolting spectacle, we left early.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 05, 2004, 03:02:11 PM
A couple of comments:

There is no evidence that I know of that indicates FFY had a sexual relationship with Rasputin. There were rumors that FFY had a sexual relationship with DP, but as all of Dmitri's known lovers were women, the rumors may have been false. Both DP and FFY wanted to marry Irina A., although as we know, she chose the latter.

Dmitri never spoke about Rasputin's murder - he kept his word. He made it clear that his issue with FFY after the Revolution stemmed from this and nothing else. I know of no evidence that he was "jealous" of Felix and R. - and it would seem illogical for F to kill his 'lover" , if so, no?

Radzinsky should be shot - metaphorically of course - for spreading so much misinformation. When asked about this,  he laughs and says he just wants to sell books. However, many people do not question his outright lies and half truths.

A case in point is the "engagement" of DP and Olga. Well, there WAS NO ENGAGEMENT. This has been repeated over and over across this board, and yet, here we go again, someone saying DP killed GER because of this non existent engagement. The truth? Anyone interested in that? I am sure Nicholas and Alexandra would have loved as many daughters as possible to remain in Russia and DP was one of the few eligibles who could have made that happen.

Yet another poster then says all the girls were serious and religious. Huh? Olga was serious and religious, but the other girls were much less so. That is why I think that DP and Anastasia would have suited. Both were bright and witty, loved animals, and the everyday life they both ultimately preferred was very similar.  Neither was overly religious and both loved Russia.

If Alix didn't want DP around the girls, how do you explain the lovely framed photo in my library from 1916 - featuring Nicholas, Tatiana, Dmitri and Olga?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Georgiy on December 05, 2004, 06:27:48 PM
I don't know about Maria or Anastasia, but certainly Tatiana was also very religious.

I think it is quite a valid point brought up earlier that the Empress was also a target of the conspirators - Gleb Botkin says that she herself thought so. Maybe they would have only tried to have sent her to a monastery, but Botkin implies that she thought her life in danger.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 05, 2004, 08:40:28 PM
I don't think that Dmitri, Marie, or Anastasia were irreligious. It's just a matter of degree - Olga was very religious - these three rather less so.

As to Alexandra, many disliked her meddling in politics. While it may be that she was merely doing what her husband wanted done, the fact that so many people lost their posts because they didn't worship Rasputin made her widely hated. The focus of many of the Grand Ducal and Duma plots in 1916/17 was removing Alexandra - not Nicholas, but his wife.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kostya on December 06, 2004, 10:53:25 AM
Lisa Davidson please can you post the picture you have framed up i would love to see it.  

i must agree that Dimitri did stay on for a long time with the IF even though many say that Alix did not want his company.  i don't think Dimitri was  a bit over angry that he was no longer a candidate for the girls.  he was the beloved adopted son of the Nicky and Alix and they would have chosen or seen that a good match be made for him.  even he knew that he was not a candidate but still continued to flirt with the girls.  

FY is known for his gossipyness and over exaggerating and maybe even in his "coded" book he still could have been exaggerating his relationship with DP.  we must remember that Dp was the Romanov's golden boy.  an association like that would elevate anyones position.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2005, 07:39:34 AM
I think I am not a "discoverer" of this photo but I was amazed with it. Dmitry and Coco Chanel. Have anyone ever seen other photos of Dmitry and Coco together?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/cocodmitry.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Arleen on January 17, 2005, 02:29:26 PM
It seems to be that I only comment these days when something moves me and THIS picture does that!  Thank you so much for posting it, I have never seen it before.  Demitri is one of my favorites of the IF.  If there are any more pictures like this please post them.....and thank you so much.    ..Arleen
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 17, 2005, 02:39:53 PM
Quote
I think I am not a "discoverer" of this photo but I was amazed with it. Dmitry and Coco Chanel. Have anyone ever seen other photos of Dmitry and Coco together?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/cocodmitry.jpg)


Sorry, but he looks like he gunna died in min,, :-[
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Martyn on January 17, 2005, 03:29:46 PM
What an incredible image of Chanel and Dimitri!  He does not look at all well in that photo; maybe that was the fashionable aesthetic?
Chanel's eyebrows are amazing - they are like two antennae on her face!  So à la mode....
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Helen_Azar on January 17, 2005, 03:32:04 PM
Quote

... he gunna died in min,


Mandie, what does this mean?  ???
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on January 17, 2005, 03:57:02 PM
After age 30, Dmitri's looks did suffer. Please bear in mind, the stress of losing one's father and brother by governmental murder would be enormous for anyone. He was also ill after leaving Persia after the Revolution..
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on January 17, 2005, 03:59:58 PM
As far as the picture of Dimitry and Coco goes~

I have several Chanel bios, she is my favorite fashion designer of all time, and none have any photos of Coco and Dimitry together. They have photos of just Dimitry but none together. I think I have seen one other one some place before but can not seem to remember where I saw it. Anyways it is a lovely photo, of Coco at least.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 17, 2005, 04:00:15 PM
Quote

Mandie, what does this mean?  ???


He look like his dying,...at any second or so,...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on January 17, 2005, 11:08:37 PM
Quote
After age 30, Dmitri's looks did suffer. Please bear in mind, the stress of losing one's father and brother by governmental murder would be enormous for anyone. He was also ill after leaving Persia after the Revolution..


He lost friends and family in the revolution. Stress and grief can alter one's looks, but his health just seemed to go down hill after the revolution. I have also read he was more withdrawn also. Who knows, but in every picture I have seen of Dmitry after the Revolution, he does not look very healthy.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Martyn on January 18, 2005, 06:29:08 AM
Quote
As far as the picture of Dimitry and Coco goes~

I have several Chanel bios, she is my favorite fashion designer of all time, and none have any photos of Coco and Dimitry together. They have photos of just Dimitry but none together. I think I have seen one other one some place before but can not seem to remember where I saw it. Anyways it is a lovely photo, of Coco at least.


Chanel was certainly a vivid character as well as being a celebrated couturière.  Her penchant for wealthy and well connected men is well documented and I always thought that it was a bit of a shame that she never managed to become Bendor's wife, and thus Duchess of Westminster....
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 20, 2005, 03:18:21 AM
More pictures of Dmitry.They are quite touching - he is with Odrey and his son.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/royals/dmitodrey.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/royals/dmitodpav.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Arleen on January 22, 2005, 04:06:47 PM
I had never seen the picture of Demitri, Audrey and baby Paul, it is absolutely wonderful.  Thank you Svetabel, so very much.  Does any one know if the awful black circles under his eyes are a symptom of his illness, he seemed to have them when he was still quite young. Lisa (Davidson) I know that you are a really busy lady, but if you could post the picture you have framed of Demitri, Nicholas and the two girls I would appreciate it so much.    ..Arleen
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 22, 2005, 05:47:39 PM
Sometimes it seems as if Dmitri existed in a separate sphere from the rest of the exiles (apart from his sister Marie) post-Revolution so I liked this image to remind us that there was still that larger family out there:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/romanovs/ebay516a.jpg)

Taken on the occasion of GDss Kira's wedding to Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Martyn on January 24, 2005, 04:30:18 AM
Is that Dimitri on the end?  Is that Cecilie next to him?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 24, 2005, 05:32:19 AM
Quote
Is that Dimitri on the end?  Is that Cecilie next to him?


Next to Cecilie is Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovicth.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: redlow53 on January 24, 2005, 06:18:04 AM
Dear Grandduchella

Please I would be very glad if you will put in the whole picture from Louis Ferdinand and Kira's wedding.

You are lucky you have been able to have so many pictures - and very nice for us too.

Redlow53
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 24, 2005, 08:35:40 AM
Quote

Next to Cecilie is Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovicth.

Are you sure? The photo ID'd it as Dmitri as did another taken on the occasion.  ???

Here is the entire photo (I'll try and enlarge it):
[old image replaced with larger one]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/prussia/ebay3127.jpg)

Actually, as I was getting another pose, it does look like Kyril (and makes sense since he was the bride's father). Probably I shrunk it and then messed up my ID because it was so small :-/
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/prussia/ebay3126.jpg)

front : GD Vladimir (on floor) , Kira, Louis Ferdinand, most likely Kyril, CPss Juliana of Netherlands (on floor)

back: CPss Cecile (behind bride), August Wilhelm of Prussia (next to Cecile--uncle of groom), Kaiser Wilhelm, perhaps next to him in shadow is Dmitri? and Empress Hermine (in profile and black hat)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 24, 2005, 09:12:15 AM
Dmitry never weared moustaches. The person next to Cecilie is definitely Kyrill - it's his daughter's wedding   :).
Dmitry did not attend at this gathering.

The photo is great,Ella! I have seen it many times but never failed to love.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: redlow53 on January 24, 2005, 10:50:06 AM
dear grandduchella

thanks for the big picture - you can see queen alexandrine of denmark beside kyrill and later king frederik 9. of denmark to the far right.
left and behind for the bride is princess feodora of schaumburg-lippe (born of demark) and behind in the midlle her husbond christian of schaumburg-lippe.

why should dimitri entered the wedding, he had not much to do with kyrill??

redlow53

redlow53
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on January 30, 2005, 12:16:31 AM
Quote
I had never seen the picture of Demitri, Audrey and baby Paul, it is absolutely wonderful.  Thank you Svetabel, so very much.  Does any one know if the awful black circles under his eyes are a symptom of his illness, he seemed to have them when he was still quite young. Lisa (Davidson) I know that you are a really busy lady, but if you could post the picture you have framed of Demitri, Nicholas and the two girls I would appreciate it so much.    ..Arleen


Arleen - our scanner doesn't work but I have asked my husband to try to get an image up for you.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2005, 12:57:05 PM
Quote
dear grandduchella

thanks for the big picture - you can see queen alexandrine of denmark beside kyrill and later king frederik 9. of denmark to the far right.
left and behind for the bride is princess feodora of schaumburg-lippe (born of demark) and behind in the midlle her husbond christian of schaumburg-lippe.
why should dimitri entered the wedding, he had not much to do with kyrill??


I finally found the picture I was thinking of originally:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/romanovs/ebay50361.jpg)

Isn't that Dmitri on the steps?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on January 30, 2005, 01:44:50 PM
Thanks for all these great pics I'd never seen before!

What was the year on that wedding?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2005, 02:06:12 PM
I don't know why that came out so small. Let's see if this is better:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/ebay50361.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on January 30, 2005, 08:00:16 PM
It looks like Dimitry second from right standing next to Ducky's son Vladimir.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 31, 2005, 08:30:06 AM
Quote

I finally found the picture I was thinking of originally:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/romanovs/ebay50361.jpg)

Isn't that Dmitri on the steps?


oops..I for some reason thought he had not attend Kyra's wedding! I saw that picture on e-bay..BTW,next to Dmitry is Vsevolod Ioannovitch,grandson of KR,son of Prince Ioann and Elena of Serbia.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Angie_H on March 10, 2005, 02:20:47 PM
Is this Dimitri at Livadia?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/booboogbs/Dimtri.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: pablo on March 26, 2005, 09:03:00 AM


  How did Dimitri Pavlovich get out of Russia (details)?

  Regards.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Tsaritsa on March 26, 2005, 09:22:32 AM
Dmitri was involved in Rasputin's murder.  Nicholas as punishment sent him to the Persian front.  This ultimately saved his life.  

With British help he escaped via Teheran and Bombay to London.  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on March 26, 2005, 01:21:09 PM
I have noticed how much Dmitry's health seems to have failed after the revolution. Many have called it stress, some guilt, but I think it amazing how one's emotinal stress and even guilt can do one's physical apperance. Alexandra also underwent a change following Alexei's birth, she physically and emotionally simply started to fall apart.

I can understand Dmitry being depressed after the revolution, in truth who wouldn't be? You lost everything you had ever known and one has to wonder how deep the deaths of his father, Ella, and the Imperial family effected him.

I started to wonder if Dmitry ever read the letter Rasputin sent to the Tsar predicting his death, or heard of it and if he did?  Perhaps that caused him to ponder if he had caused the death of his family?

( Just wondering, although I don't think Dmitry believed predictions or such things, but still would like to know if he ever read it and found it rather eerie? I know I do.)



Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: bluetoria on March 26, 2005, 02:26:54 PM
Quote

   How did Dimitri Pavlovich get out of Russia (details)?

   Regards.


Nicholas posted him to the Persian front after Rasputin's murder & so following the revolution he reached Tehran where he was helped by the British Minister Sir Charles Marling & his wife. He enrolled inthe British army & was commissioned as a captain in 1918. After the war he travelled on to India & France before settling in Britain (with the help of the Marlings) & it was there that he received the news of the murder of his father.  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on March 26, 2005, 05:01:25 PM
Quote

Here is the entire photo (I'll try and enlarge it):
[old image replaced with larger one]
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/prussia/ebay3127.jpg)



First row:

Duke Carl Eduard of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Grand Duchess Alexandra of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Queen Alexandrine of Denmark, Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich, Crown Princess Cecilie of Prussia, Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, Grand Duchess Kira Kirillovna of Russia, King Ferdinand of Bulgaria and Crown Prince Friedrich Wilhelm of Prussia.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga on March 26, 2005, 08:32:24 PM
Quote
I started to wonder if Dmitry ever read the letter Rasputin sent to the Tsar predicting his death, or heard of it and if he did?  Perhaps that caused him to ponder if he had caused the death of his family?


That letter was a forgery, written after the Revolution.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Forum Admin on March 27, 2005, 10:10:08 AM
Rasputin NEVER made that supposed prediction about the Tsar and IF. So, Dmitri of course never heard of it either. Its a FAKE story made up by Rasputin's secretary Simanovich.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on March 27, 2005, 01:40:46 PM
Really? That is news to me.

Thanks for the info
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on June 14, 2005, 10:04:24 AM
While the Romanovs and Yussoupovs were heavily into the occult and mysticism, they remained devout Orthodox Christians. I heard that Dmitri became totally devoted to eastern mysticism, and gave up Orthodoxy until guilt over the Rasputin murder made him change back when he was sick and dying of TB. Anybody else heard anything on this?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on June 14, 2005, 06:48:06 PM
I know that the marriage of GD Dimitri Pavlovich and Princess Ilyinskaya was celebrated by Russian Orthodox prelates. Their only child, Prince Paul, received an Orthodox baptism/chrismation. When the Grand Duke was buried in Count Bernadotte's church an Orthodox burial Mass was celebrated.

DAP
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Suzanne on June 14, 2005, 11:26:49 PM
Perry and Pleshakov's work "The Flight of the Romanovs" discusses Dmitiri's interest in Buddism and other Eastern religions and describes these beliefs as a solace during his period of Persian exile, following Rasputin's murder. He never seems to have formally renounced orthodoxy though, therefore it makes sense that his wedding and funeral were performed according to Orthodox practice.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on June 15, 2005, 12:23:20 PM
Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 22, 2005, 04:49:07 PM
Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich's identification card as a British officer dating from the end of World War I.

FA: I removed this image as it is simply far too large for the forum and violates our size requirements.

New scan at a much lower quality level and a smaller size.

(http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/4909/07222005114822pm1db.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 22, 2005, 05:00:45 PM
Do you think it small enough ?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 22, 2005, 05:07:59 PM
Actually, you are lucky that I even posted the card. I have been trying to upload it for over a week, probably 20 attempts. I had no idea that it would be so large. The second related document is below, the Grand Duke's British commission.

FA: I Have removed this image as it is too large and violates our size limitations.

New scan at a lower quality level and smaller size.

(http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/8641/07222005115027pm1si.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Arleen on July 22, 2005, 07:56:52 PM
David, many thanks for the gorgeous picture and documents of Dmitri
Pavlovitch.  I love anything that can be found about him as he is one of my favorite Romanov's.  Speaking of Romanov, wonder why they didn't call him Dmitri Romanov.....it was after the revolution after all.

..Arleen
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: lexi4 on July 22, 2005, 09:44:19 PM
I"m sorry that it had to be removed, I would have liked to see it.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 22, 2005, 10:33:09 PM
Quote
David, many thanks for the gorgeous picture and documents of Dmitri
Pavlovitch.  I love anything that can be found about him as he is one of my favorite Romanov's.  Speaking of Romanov, wonder why they didn't call him Dmitri Romanov.....it was after the revolution after all.

..Arleen


I will try to rescan my photocopies of the documents at a much smaller size and repost them. For the time being, anyone who would like these documents may send me a message with their e-mail address and I will send them copies.

HIH Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich was his name. He did not have a last name. Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp was the dynastic name; the surname Romanov came via the female line not the male line. No one related to the  Imperial Family should use the name Romanov as a family name because it is incorrect.

DAP
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Suzanne on July 22, 2005, 11:34:59 PM
Are you suggesting that Felix Yussupov should not have used the Yussupov name because it came through the female line. I can think of plenty of cases where a family name has endured through the female line.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 23, 2005, 12:15:32 AM
No, I am not suggesting that Prince Felix Yussupov did not have the right to use the surname of Yussupov. He was legally entitled to this surname and the title of prince that came with it because his father, Count Felix Felixovich Sumarokov-Elston, applied to the Emperor for written permission to take this surname and title when he married the heiress of the Princely House of Yussopov, Princess Zinaida Nikolaievna Yussupova.

As the members of the Imperial Family made unequal marriages, some received the permission of the Head of the Imperial House to marry; their wives were granted titles and the children of these marriages were granted titles surnames reflecting the status of both of their parents. One of the best examples of this are the Children of HIH Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich and Audrey Emery, Serene Princess Ilyinskaya, their son became the Serene Prince Paul Dmitrivich Romanovsky-Ilyinsky.

Those persons that use the name Prince X Romanov do not have Russian titles or proper last names according to the traditions of the Imperial House of Russia that were established years before the Revolution. I suppose that if they applied to the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimironva, their names and titles could be regularised.

DAP
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 23, 2005, 02:03:30 AM
David, thank you so much for the re-sized post. Much more  readable.  I knew it was an interesting  document, but so large it was distorted beyond appreciation.
I am curious now as to what size the original document is ? I know some of those things can be quite large and are usually folded  up to fit portfolios.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dianoshka on July 23, 2005, 02:14:31 AM
Thanks for the scans.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 23, 2005, 01:47:55 PM
Quote
David, thank you so much for the re-sized post. Much more  readable.  I knew it was an interesting  document, but so large it was distorted beyond appreciation.
I am curious now as to what size the original document is ? I know some of those things can be quite large and are usually folded  up to fit portfolios.


I am not certain about the original size. A grandson of the Grand Duke made me copies of his copies that he received from the British Ministry of Defence.

DAP
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: lexi4 on July 23, 2005, 01:52:44 PM
Thank you very much David.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 24, 2005, 04:42:18 PM
I've been reading Education of a Princess and wondered if anyone knows the complete list of signers of  the petition Marie Pavlovna the younger circulated  among the Imperial Family and sent to Nicholas after Rasputin's murder, objecting to Dmitri's treatment.

Marie says in the book that Queen Olga of Greece put her name at the top.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Forum Admin on July 24, 2005, 05:23:28 PM
In order of signature:
Olga of Greece
Maria Pavlovna, elder
Cyril
Victoria
Boris
Andrew
Paul
Maria Pavlovna, younger
Elisabeth Mavrikevna
John
Helene
Gabriel
Constantine
Igor
Nicholas Michaelovich
Serge Michailovich
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 24, 2005, 05:54:47 PM
Thank you, FA!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on July 24, 2005, 06:50:18 PM
Quote
Marie says in the book that Queen Olga of Greece put her name at the top.


I had just read the list in Love, Power and Tragedy as well but I've been beaten to it!  :)

It's not surprising about Olga being at top (was she the instigator of the letter?) since Dmitri was her grandson (her daughter Alexandra being his mother). That also made him part of the larger Constantinovichi family who were well-represented in the letter even though, of the Romanovs,  they were probably on the best terms with N&A.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on July 24, 2005, 07:02:22 PM
For anyone who's interested here's the letter:

'Your Imperial Majesty. We all whose signatures You will read at the close of this letter, fervently and strongly implore You to mitigate Your severe decision concerning the destiny of Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch--We know that he is physically sick and deeply shocked, suprressed morally. You,--his former Trustee and Supreme Guardian, know his heart has always been filled with so much fervent love for You, Your Majesty, and for our Motherland. We entreat your IMperial Majesty, in view of the young age and really poor health of Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch to allow him to stay in Usov or Ilyinskoye. Your Imperial Majesty must be aware of how hard are the conditions for our troops in Persia, because of lack of living quarters, epidemics and other scourges of the human race, should Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch be obliged to stay there, it would mean his complete ruin and in the heart of Your Imperial Majesty, ther emust emerge some pity for the youth whom You have loved, who since childhood has been happy to be much and often near You and to whom You have been as kind as a father. May the Lord exhort Your Imperial Majesty to change Your decision and temper justice with mercy. Fervently faithful to and fondly loving Your Imperial Majesty [signatures followed]
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on July 24, 2005, 07:03:41 PM
To which Nicholas added on the top of the letter (I guess he returned it):

'Nobody had got the right to commit an assassination, I know that many are conscience-stricken for not only Dmitriy Pavlovitch is implicated in the crime. Your application surprises me. Nikolai.'
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Annie on July 24, 2005, 08:59:10 PM

Paul
John
Constantine
Igor
Nicholas Michaelovich
Serge Michailovich

Ironically, Dmitri's life was saved, while these all died tragically.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: lexi4 on August 16, 2005, 12:12:15 AM


I found the articles the other day about the Romanovs living in the United States. The most prominent seems to be Prince Michael Philip Romanov Ilyinsky who lives in Cinn. Ohio. He is is the great-great-grandson of Tsar Alexander II, the great-grandson of Tsar Alexander III and the grandson of Grand Duke Dimitri Pavlovich Romanov. Dimitri is one of the murderers of Rasputin.
This man appears to have aboslutely no interest in being Romanov. I don't know why that jumped out at me. We are all so interested in the Romanovs. That amaze me. Anyway, I am interested in learning more about this branch of the family. How did they come to live in the United States? What connections do the have, if any, to Russia today? Where would they stand in the line of succession? Does anyone else seem to think that they are disinterested in their heritage? Anyone know anything?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Finelly on August 16, 2005, 12:23:24 AM

After the Revolution, Dmitri married an American heiress from Ohio and moved to the United States.Before he divorced Aubrey Emery, he had a son named Paul.  Paul lived in Ohio and also in Palm Beach, and was at one point Mayor of that city.  

Paul had four kids - 2 boys, 2 girls.  3 of them still live in Cincinatti.

My understanding is that Dmitri's grandchildren were raised not to know very much about being Romanovs.  They adored their grandfather, but as a human being rather than an historical figure.  Despite the family wealth, they were all raised to make a living and participate in American life as "regular people", not royalty.  

I think only one of the grandchildren, Michael, has professed any great interest in the Romanov family per se.  He attended the funeral in Russia and met some of his cousins, with whom he stays in touch sporadically.  He is a photographer by profession.

Both Dmitri and his sister, Marie Pavlovna the Younger, were profoundly disillusioned after the Revolution.  If you read Marie's memoirs, you see that she survived some hard knocks and gradually came to realize how unfair the social class distinction and distribution of wealth was in Russia.  Dmitri felt somewhat the same, and I wouldn't be suprised if he passed that, as well as a discinclination to be remembered as a royal, to his son and grandchildre.


Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: lexi4 on August 16, 2005, 12:45:41 AM
Finelly,
Do you know the name of the book which contains Marie's memoir's? I would like to read.
Does anyone know where they fall in the line of succession?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Finelly on August 16, 2005, 03:27:09 PM
Marie's memoirs, the first volume, are called "Education of a Princess".  You can buy it used at Amazon.com.

Michael Ilyinsky is a photographer and lives in Cincinnatti.
His sister Anne owns a boutique there - sells gift items in Cincinnatti.
His sister Paula runs a non-profit organization in Cincinatti that was created after her daughter was killed in a drunk driving accident.
Dmitri, aka Tim, designs miniature railways in Connecticut.

I think they are all very close and none of them do much related to the Romanov family.  They seem to be very American and eschew that sort of thing.

I don't know what position they would be in the line to the throne, if any.  But Paul, the son of Dmitri the elder, was offered the throne in about 1990 by a group of Russian diplomats who visited him in Palm Beach.  He declined.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on August 21, 2005, 01:28:58 PM
Rumor (Big Time Rumor-this tale is re-told constantly in Florida by Royal Watchers) has it in Florida that his response to the diplomats' offer went something like this:

I thank you gentlemen for your kind and flattering offer but I already have a position to which I have been elected.  I am the mayor. Therefore, I could not possibly have the time to be the Tsar!

TampaBay  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: amelia on September 21, 2005, 04:39:43 PM
I had the pleasure to meet briefly,Prince Paul Illinky (he liked to be called Paulie).  He was a very nice person and you could see in his manners that he was a perfect gentleman, an aristocrat without wanting to be one.  He was for a few years the Mayor of Palm Beach, which actually does not have a salary.  He used to come to his office in his yatch.  His wife is a very beautiful lady. Their photographs are in St.Peter and St. Paul Foprtress in St. Petersburgh.

Amelia
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on December 26, 2005, 03:35:24 AM
GD Dmitry. Possibly in 1915

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/dmauto.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 26, 2005, 08:16:40 AM
My guess would be 1916.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 24, 2006, 04:10:12 AM
GD Dmitriy and his sister Maria (at French Riviera)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/MP/mpydp.jpg)

Lovely picture of brother and sister

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/MP/mpdp1.jpg)

Here Dmitriy with his wife Audrey and sister Maria (at far right)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/MP/mpdpaudrey.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: amelia on January 24, 2006, 07:53:25 AM
Thank you Svetabel, I have never seen these pohtographs before.

Amelho
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Prince_Christopher on January 28, 2006, 11:20:09 PM
Yes, wonderful photos of Dmitri and Marie, two of my favorite Romanovs.  However, is the second one for sure Marie, it doesn't quite look like her....
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Teddy on January 29, 2006, 03:48:18 AM
Where did you found those lovely photo's of, Svetabel? Of Dmitri and Maria P?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 29, 2006, 04:01:47 AM
The photos are from new Russian bio on GDss Maria Pavlovna-younger.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 29, 2006, 06:00:30 AM
On another thread, it was mentioned about a possible affair between Queen Marie of Romania and Dmitri. Has anyone heard of this before?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Prince_Christopher on January 29, 2006, 11:58:47 AM
I have never heard of this.  When was it supposed to have happened?  When Queen Marie came to Paris for her famous visit?  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 30, 2006, 12:21:34 AM
Quote
I have never heard of this.  When was it supposed to have happened?  When Queen Marie came to Paris for her famous visit?  

Earlier. When GD Dmitriy was only 17  :-/
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2006, 12:37:03 AM
Where was the information first given? Was there a bio on Dmitri? It's caused some consternation on the other thread.  :-/
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 30, 2006, 01:25:03 AM
There is no a bio on GD Dmitriy. I did not find out any info on his flirt with Marie in short Russian articles about his life. :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Emilia on February 02, 2006, 12:10:54 PM
Quote
Earlier. When GD Dmitriy was only 17  :-/


Interesting. Could you please tell more, Svetabel? ::)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on February 03, 2006, 12:14:47 AM
Unfortunately I don't know more. :( A discussion on this subject you can find on the Balkans Forum, on "Missy and Boris affair" thread. I tried to find out more info but still nothing... :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Emilia on February 03, 2006, 08:57:34 AM
Quote
Unfortunately I don't know more. :( A discussion on this subject you can find on the Balkans Forum, on "Missy and Boris affair" thread. I tried to find out more info but still nothing... :(

Thanks anyway!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on February 03, 2006, 10:49:55 AM
I have read two biographies of Marie, and never heard of this, but given her personality perhaps. I don't know much about the youth of Grand Duke Dmitri..
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on February 23, 2006, 11:23:29 AM
Does anyone have more infos and pics of the American wife of Grand Duc Dimitri, please ? I would like to learn more about her.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on February 23, 2006, 12:17:01 PM
A 1990 article from the Cincinnati Post


Emerys shared riches with city

By Barry M. Horstman, Post staff reporter

When the University of Cincinnati honored John J. Emery in 1975 for a lifetime of civic and philanthropic contributions, he was likened to the legendary English architect whose dozens of 17th- and 18th-century churches and other structures still dominate London's landscape.

''We can say of him as was said of Christopher Wren, 'If you would see his monument, look about you,' '' one speaker said of Emery.

That description accurately captures the civic ubiquity not only of Emery, but of generations of his family, whose business affairs, social activism and exceedingly generous charitable donations left an indelible imprint on nearly every facet of life in Cincinnati.

A modest candle-making company founded by Emery's grandfather in 1840 spawned a corporate empire that, by the mid-20th century, had become a global industrial-chemical giant. His forebears donated millions of dollars to build, expand - and, in some cases, save - institutions ranging from the Cincinnati Zoo and Children's Hospital to the UC College of Medicine and the Cincinnati Art Museum. His aunt, Mary Emery, became known as ''Cincinnati's Lady Bountiful'' for her charitable munificence, which included funding the development of Mariemont as a model town patterned after an English village.

John Emery himself gave the city some of its most enduring landmarks - notably, the 48-story Carew Tower, which still punctuates the skyline - and put his considerable clout behind the mid-century redevelopment of downtown Cincinnati. As one of the founders and president of the Charter Committee, he helped reform city government. And over nearly a half century, Emery - for years, referred to as ''Cincinnati's biggest taxpayer'' - continued one of his aunt's most cherished projects, lifting the Art Museum from parochial mediocrity to national prominence by serving as its longtime president, chairman and perpetual benefactor.

The local history of one of Cincinnati's most significant families began with Thomas Emery, who in the early 1830s left his job in a London bank to come to America. After drifting westward from Connecticut to Kentucky over several years, he finally settled in Cincinnati in his mid-30s, where he opened a real estate and money agent office on Fourth Street.

The Panic of 1837 scuttled that business, but Emery rebounded by manufacturing candles, building a company around something no one else wanted - the abundant fat and oil byproducts of Cincinnati's meat-packing plants. Emery, who initially sold his candles door-to-door in his buggy, saw his sales soar when he improved on the tallow candles of the day by developing dripless stearic acid candles, which burned longer and held their shape better.

He plowed most of his profits into buying land, a strategy that his three sons continued after their father was killed when he fell down a hatchway at his downtown factory in 1857. By the early 1900s, the Emery estate was estimated to be the largest west of New York.

Beginning in the late 1880s, the Emerys built the first modern apartments in Cincinnati - four- and five-room ''French flats'' in downtown that offered private bathrooms and kitchens, not simply sleeping quarters, as was then the norm. Future President William Howard Taft, in his bachelor days, lived in one of the Emerys' buildings on Fourth Street, the Lombardy.When Mary Emery's husband, one of Thomas Emery's sons, died in 1906, he left his $20 million share of the family estate to her with no strings attached. Having no direct descendants, she spent the final 21 years of her life dispensing millions to innumerable causes - and still managed to leave nearly the amount she had inherited in a $20 million trust fund to oversee her commitments when she died.

In 1916, she and Mrs. Charles P. Taft each donated $125,000 to save the Cincinnati Zoo, buying it from a transit company that could no longer afford to operate it. She funded construction of Children's Hospital, orphanages, churches and recreational facilities; helped form the Summer Opera, and built the Emery Auditorium, which housed the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra from 1912-1936. The UC College of Medicine gained a new building and an endowed chair thanks to Mrs. Emery. And in her will, she left paintings valued at $3.5 million to the Art Museum.

Her crowning achievement, though, was Mariemont - the first subdivision of its kind in Cincinnati and one hailed as a ''national exemplar.''

After buying up 423 acres in the early 1920s, she commissioned a nationally recognized town planner to create a community of about 5,000 drawn from ''a wide range of families of different economic degrees (who) would prefer not to live 'under the shadow of the factory' so long as they are not too far from their work.'' Most homes were to be modestly priced, and the community was to be a self-contained suburban enclave with parks, recreational facilities and a farm; a shopping district with stores, a theater and an inn; small police and fire stations, and a town hall, school, church, hospital and library.

Although Mariemont fell short of some goals - higher construction costs raised its lowest rents to nearly 50 percent above the citywide average - it drew effusive praise from housing reformers and urban planners. Its underground electrical and telephone wiring - an aesthetic choice that eliminated unsightly poles and wires - remains innovative even by contemporary standards.

Several years before his aunt's death, John Emery moved from his native New York to Cincinnati in 1924, anticipating a relatively brief stay to oversee the family's diverse interests. Instead, Emery - educated at Harvard and Oxford universities - remained here the rest of his life, eventually becoming the family's most visible member.

While extending the Emerys' real estate holdings, he piloted Emery Industries Inc. - the outgrowth of the old candle company - through decades of steady expansion, making it one of the nation's top producers of fatty acids and chemicals used in rubber, leather, dyes, paints and a wide range of other products. At the time of his death, the firm - which two years later was merged into the National Distillers and Chemical Corp. - had annual sales of $193 million.

An unrelenting advocate of downtown redevelopment, Emery was responsible for the $30 million Carew Tower - a smaller-scale model of New York's Rockefeller Center that has topped the city's skyline since 1930. He also built the Terrace Hilton (now the Crowne Plaza) and the stately 28-story, 800-room Netherland Plaza, which at its 1931 opening was rhapsodically described in newspapers as rivaling the ''splendors of Solomon's Temple.''

Some of Emery's ideas helped shape downtown's modern face, including his early calls for a convention center, hotels and apartments precisely where they were later built. As early as the 1950s, he warned that development of the central riverfront was long overdue.

While Emery's daring risk-taking and sense of noblesse oblige were remaking his adopted city, his sister, Audrey, kept Cincinnatians enthralled by cutting a spectacular swath through international society in the '20s and '30s.

Voted one of America's 10 most beautiful women, she twice married into Russian nobility - once to Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, the cousin of Russia's last czar, Nicholas. Later, in the weeks before Grace Kelly married Prince Rainier of Monaco, papers were filled with stories hinting that Audrey - by then Princess Ilynski, a courtesy title from her marriage to the grand duke - might beat them to the altar by marrying Rainier's father. But, from her Palm Beach home, she assured Cincinnatians that she and Prince Pierre were just old friends.

When John Emery died at 78 in 1976, closed-circuit television was brought in for the overflow attendance at his Indian Hill funeral.

A newspaper story from years before provided a fitting eulogy. ''Cincinnati would not seem normal,'' it said, ''if there was not an Emery around doing something for the town.'' The lasting gifts from John, Mary and other Emerys assure that there always will be.

Publication date: 08-09-99
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on February 23, 2006, 12:38:59 PM
From the Manalapan News:

IS THERE A GHOST IN CASA ALVA?

By William E. Benjamin II

My mother’s family comes from Raynam Hall in Norfolk which is one of the most famous haunted houses in all of England. I spent my youthful summers in Hyde Hall, Cooperstown, New York which was a stately,although decaying Georgian mansion circa 1800 with trap doors and tunnels leading to the family crypts and also well documented ghostly activity. After buying our 1840 house in Coastal Maine we discovered that it had a well known local reputation for the ghosts of a displaced Indian and also a long ago sea captain. My wife’s sister, who is into such things, came from California and exorcised the ghostsafter settling their troubled memories. In Casa Alva, our lovely and cheery home in Manalapan, my wife says that she is often aware of a ghostly woman standing quietly and observing her. Our housekeeper, who comes from Down East Maine, is equally cer-tain that there are other worldly presences that occupy the mansion. I also remember, the mother of my old friend, Paulie Ilyinsky, Mrs. Audrey Emery telling me that many years ago when she was staying as a guest in the house in the 1930’s she clearly remembered passing a ladyin a dressing gown coming down the stairs in the latenight darkness. At breakfast she was told that there were no other female guests staying in the house. Perhaps I am less perceptive or imaginative than these ladies, but I have never felt another worldly pres-ence in Casa Alva and indeed, have always found an amiable and welcoming air in its many halls and roomsand even the endless cellars. If there is a ghost, perhaps itarrived with one of the many rooms of 18th Century decorative boiseries that Madame Balsan had stripped from great estates in France and England and re-erected in what were then the wilds of Florida. Maybe the ghosts miss their faraway old homes. Wouldn’t you?


N.B. Manalapan is the small municipality just south of the Town of Palm Beach sharing the same barrier island.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 23, 2006, 09:23:41 PM

Audrey and Dmitri

(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1284/audreyanddmitri9od.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Rachael89 on February 26, 2006, 11:38:30 AM
Here's a scan of Audrey from Camera and the Tsars (it's a very bad scan!):

http://photobucket.com/albums/c124/Rachael89/?action=view&current=75.jpg

Rachael
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on February 28, 2006, 09:58:51 AM
I had never seen that photo, although I was thinking of buying that book soon. It's very nice!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Rachael89 on February 28, 2006, 12:51:34 PM
Glad to help, it's a wonderful book, my favourite on the Romanovs. Some of the photos in it are spectacular and the writing is also fascinating.

Rachael
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Tatyana on February 28, 2006, 08:38:20 PM
My late mother-in-law was Jack Emery's second wife -- they were in love all their lives, but her family wouldn't let her marry him originally because they considered him "fast".
Her recollection of Audrey was that she was very fast: my mother-in-law said that she snapped her garters at men regularly!  :o  ::)

TATYANA
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on March 01, 2006, 08:35:16 AM
I can believe she was. Grand Duke Paul was regarded that way in Russia before the revolution, athough later he was a bit more subdued.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 01, 2006, 09:22:13 AM
engaged

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/queenena/romanov/HU0249092.jpg)

married

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/queenena/romanov/hc0117DmitriPavlovitch.jpg)

with son Paul

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/queenena/romanov/dmitodpav1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dp5486 on March 02, 2006, 05:49:20 PM
Does anyone by chance know who accompanied Dmitri into exile at the Persian front? I know an ADC of Nicholas's, Count Konstantin Pavlovich Kutaisov did.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 02, 2006, 11:49:15 PM
Quote
Does anyone by chance know who accompanied Dmitri into exile at the Persian front? I know an ADC of Nicholas's, Count Konstantin Pavlovich Kutaisov did.

Thanks!


Dmitri's ADC, named Kasterine, accompanied him. I have been in contact with Kasterine's son, who was named Dmitri in honor of the Grand Duke. I don't know who else.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dp5486 on March 03, 2006, 09:54:13 AM
Thank you! Do you have Kasterine's full name and title?
I read, I think in "Flight of the Romanovs", that there were several people who accompanied him to the front.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 03, 2006, 05:55:33 PM
I will have to look this up - I don't remember Kasterine's first name or patronymic. His son still lives in the United States.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on April 27, 2006, 01:24:40 PM
Perfect profile of Audrey :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/Audrey.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: griffh130 on May 11, 2006, 11:49:44 PM
I originally wrote this little piece on meeting Paul Ilyinsky in Oct of 2004 as a thank you to Robert Moshein for his wonderful tribute to Paul after his passing.  I am sure many of you have read it but I have added a few extra impressions and a few details that were not in my original post.  

I read your touching account of Paul’s passing and just wanted to thank you for the respect and gracious remarks you made.  I only met Paul once.  It must have been sometime after 1973 or around 1974.  I had just received my Master of Fine Arts degree from UCLA and had returned to NYC to continue my career as a sculptor.  The head of the UCLA Sculpture Dept. and head of my Master’s committee was a main-stream sculptor named Oliver Andrews.  Just after I had returned to NYC, Oliver had been commissioned by the Warrington’s of Cincinnati, to create a 40’ titanium water fall for their garden.  Mrs. Warrington also wanted a section of her garden dedicated to St. Francis of Assisi and wanted a three quarter life size statue of the saint.  Oliver wrote me in NYC and asked me if I would be interested in making a ¾ life size statue of St. Francis out of copper mesh.  

I agreed to do it and flew out to Cincinnati to meet up with Oliver and see the site where the statue was to go.  I was invited to stay in the lovely home of Oliver’s art agent, A. B. Closson, in Indian Hill.  After meeting the Warrington’s and seeing the site and after talking with Oliver, I started immediately to work on sketches for the sculpture.  Mr. Closson was very nice, but I was certainly not a peer and spent most of my time working out ideas.  Oliver occasionally went out but it was very quiet overall.  That is, until Mr. Closson asked me if I wanted to meet the Grand Duke, which is what Paul Ilyinsky was called by his friends in Indian Hill.  Oliver had told Closson that I was something of a Russophile and had been reading Russian memoirs since I was 12 years old, so he thought that I would enjoy meeting the son of the Grand Duke Dimitri.  I knew that the Grand Duke had married Audrey Emery and that she was from a wealthy mid-western family, but I had no idea that they had a son that he lived a few doors away from where I was staying.

So the following Sunday morning we all walked down the street to Paul’s home, a lovely Tudor style two storied house.  After we all walked in the entrance, this very good looking tall man with a healthy athletic build came the stairs.  It was Paul Ilyinsky and as he entered the foyer he radiated the kind of warm wholesome charm that puts one at their ease.  He said in a bright and cheefull voice, “Which one of you is interested in Czarist Russia?”  Well everyone said at the same time, “I am.”  However I did not hear them because I had seen through the entrance hall a miniature painting of the Grand Duchess Ella seated on the veranda at Ilyinskoe.  The small painting was resting on an easel on a sofa table in the living room.  I had never seen a painting of Ella, only photographs and without being able to stop, I walked, as if in a trance, across the living room to the painting and said out loud, “But this is Ella sitting on the porch of Ilyinskoe.”  

Paul was startled and walked over to me and said, “How on earth did you know that?”  I said that I had been reading Russian memoirs, including his Aunty’s two books, since I was twelve.  I said that somehow when you read, you see things and feel things and I had a sense of what Ilyinskoe looked like from his Aunt Marie’s books.  I found out much later that when the Grand Duke Dimitri had inherited Ilyinskoe that he had torn down that part of the estate and as I had never seen the veranda of Ilyinskoe I am really not sure how on earth I actually knew that was where the Grand Duchess had been sitting.  

I also told Paul that there was a Russian Princess in our family but that it was very distant and it was all my marriage not by blood.  I told him that my Aunt’s Grandfather’s, Porter Ashe, had divorced his first wife, the Crocker bank heiress, Aimee Crocker and that she had married, as her forth husband, a Russian Prince and had lived in the Passy at Rue 20 Venuse, in Paris between the two World Wars as a Russian Princess.  Paul asked me who she had married and I said, “One of the Galitzine’s, but that I did not know which one or which branch.”  I said the my Uncle Morgan was in Paris at the same time as a young art student at the Sorbonne and that he had become the Princess’ protégé and that he had said that the Prince was a scoundrel from the naughty line of the Galitzines.  That made Paul laugh.  (I eventually found out thanks to a post in this website that she had married Prince Mstislav Galitzine in Paris Sept. 22, 1925.  Though they divorced in 1927 Amiee remained Princess Galitizine as a courtesy title.  The Prince remarried happily and was a very nice man).  

Paul immediately started taking me on a tour of the house and showed me the Czarina’s black enamel and silver make-up holder that was placed in of her Rolls so that she could touch up her makeup just before getting out of her car, a large curly coral and golden bell baby rattle that had belonged to Czarevitch, lots of exquisite Russian birch Empire furniture that had belonged to his father and that the Grand Duke had removed from Sergei Palace when he was banished to General Baratov’s military Headquarters in Kazvin, Persia.  

(I have to continue the story in the next post)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: griffh130 on May 12, 2006, 12:03:52 AM
(Here is the rest of the story of meeting Paul Ilyinsky)

Then Paul started to show me his American Grandfather’s roll top desk and when I did not respond he looked at me with the most compassionate smile and in a light hearted manner he said, “I see you are only interested in Russia.”  I apologized but agreed that this was so.  Then he stopped and looked at me for awhile in total silence because I had asked him if he had any photographs of his father and his father’s family that I could look at.  

Without answering my question, he walked me over to a set of bound volumes and said, “This is a set of magazines that my father brought out of Russia, it was the “Town and Country” of Czarist Russia.  You can look through them first.”  As I started to touch one of the books he said something to me in Russian, but I did not understand him.  Then he stopped me before I had a chance to reach the book and said, “Don’t you know Russian?”  When I said that I did not, he said in almost a hurt manner, “You can come back and look at these books only when you have learned Russian.”   It was an odd moment and I felt embarrassed and confused, but I realized that his honor was involved.  So I said that I would immediately start learning Russian, which I did try to do as soon as I returned to NYC and I can still hear Madame Michailovna saying, “Open-a your mouth!”  Open-a your mouth.!”  I did not learn Russian and I never got to see the magazines.

But anyway we spent an absolutely wonder afternoon.  I briefly met his wife and then returned to the Closson’s house.  For the rest of our stay on Indian Hill we started to be invited everywhere, luncheons, dinners, pool parties, etc.  Every time I came to one of these events the entire room would be hushed.  Finally at the last dinner party, I asked the hostess, “Am I hallucinating or did every one stop talking when I came in the room?”  The society lady said to me, “Yes it is true.  You see the Grand Duke told us you were a member of the Russian Nobility.”   I said, “Oh heavens, that’s not true.”  She smiled and said, “The Grand Duke said you would deny it.”

 

I have always carried that time with Paul and my visit to Indian Hill as one of the happiest memories of my life.   The other thing that stays with me were the remarks that Mr. Closson made about the way Audrey Emery had raised Paul.  He told me that she had seen how torn the Grand Duke Dimitri was by being exiled from his own country and never able to return and that she had seen the same thing with all of Dimitri’s surviving family and friends and that she did not want Paul to be torn in that way so she raised him as an American boy while acknowledging his Romanoff heritage.  Mr. Closson said that everyone in Cincinnati felt that Audrey Emery had really been a wonderful mother to Paul.  I am sure that from the reverence which Paul had for his American grandfather when he was starting to show me some of his belongings that his grandfather must have been a strong influence in his life too.  

I know that this does not give much information about Audrey Emery exactly but I hope it can give a sense of the wholesome atmosphere of that family.  From all that I could gather from the stories I heard about Paul and from my brief but very intense meeting with him, Paul seemed to have inherited his father's dignity and charm and his mother's wholesome friendliness and common sense.  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on May 28, 2006, 09:43:56 PM
I was reading an article on Audrey and here's some of what was in it:

--Audrey was born when her father was 68 thus she was born in 1904 (he died in 1908) in the 20th century, her father in the 19th and his father in the 18th

--her widowed mother remarried in 1912 to the Hon Alfred Anson, 8th son of the 2nd Earl of Lichfield & Lady Harriet Hamilton (dau of the 1st Duke of Albercorn); this made her stepfather 1st cousin once removed to the late Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester as well as the great-great-uncle of photographer Patrick, Earl of Lichfield (himself a cousin of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother); it seems the children must've gotten on with their stepfather since once of Audrey's nephews was named Alfred Anson Moore

--her brother Jack ('King' of Cincinnati) married Irene 'Babs' Gibson, daughter of the Gibson Girl artist, Charles Dana Gibson & his wife Irene Langhorne, sister of Nancy Langhorne Shaw (later Lady Astor, first lady member of Parliament)

--her sister Lela's 2nd marriage was to the Helie, 7th Duke of Talleygrand and 7th Duke of Dino

--met Dmitri at a party at Versailles in the early 1920s

--converted to Orthodoxy and took the name 'Anna' before marrying Dmitry in a civil ceremony on 17 Nov 1926 and an Orthodox one in Biarritz on 21 Nov; GD Kyril chose the name Princess Ilyinsky

--a year after her divorce from Dmitri, in 1939, she married Prince Dmtiry Alexandrovitch Djordjadze whom she later divorced; her ex went on to marry the actress Sylvia Hawkes (previously married to Lord Ashley, Douglas Fairbanks Sr and Clark Gable)

--rumors abounded in the 1950s that she'd become the stepmother of Prince Rainier of Monaco and the engagement was even published in the Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels in 1961
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: polignac on September 25, 2006, 05:29:16 AM
How did Dmitri escaped from Russia?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on September 25, 2006, 07:11:09 AM
He was saved by his exile (because of his complicity in the murder of Rasputin) to the Persian region during WW1. He was able to escape through this area which was less under threat from revolutionary forces. He received aid from the British Ambassador (?) and his wife and left via Teheran and Bombay and finally to Europe--I think Paris as England wasn't accepting Grand Dukes but perhaps London.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: griffh on October 09, 2006, 03:46:40 PM
I just wanted to add that I found a picture of one of my relatives in a Austin run-a-bout on Jack Emery's estate and it has all the information written on the back of the photo.  I did not realize at the time I met Paul Illyinskoe that my relatives had been social peers of the Emery's.  I am rather grateful that I kept a low social profile at the time, but even so that gracious gentleman, Paul still attempted to make me feel special.  He was such a charming and kind-hearted gentleman.  I could feel all the best qualities of his father in him.  I shall try to find the photo and post it, but I am currently involved in the Rasputin trial so I am not certain as to when I can post the photo.  In my former post I had mistakenly thought that Paul's American grandfather had been an important influence in his life, but it must have been his Uncle Jack instead.  He had the most delightful way of putting one at their ease.  I was so reminded of my mother's family....that captivating quality of dignity and gentleness. 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: miller99 on October 10, 2006, 03:06:14 PM
 grandduchessella : "rumors abounded in the 1950s that she'd become the stepmother of Prince Rainier of Monaco and the engagement was even published in the Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels in 1961"

Audrey was wife of Prince Pierre of Monaco ?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on October 10, 2006, 03:07:06 PM
No, I guess it was just the rumor.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on October 10, 2006, 08:36:35 PM
I have always wondered "WHY on earth" Audrey married Dimitri.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 06, 2006, 11:53:28 PM
I have always wondered "WHY on earth" Audrey married Dimitri.

TampaBay

Are you serious? This is a man who was lovers with women such as Coco Chanel and Isadora Duncan. This is a man who someone said "looked like he was made by Faberge". Grand Duke Dmitri was probably one of the world's most eligible bachelors prior to the Revolution. He was rich, royal (and a double Romanov through Alexander II and Olga Constantinova, two of his grandparents), charming (the qualities ascribed to the late Paul Ilyinsky sound very much like those I've read about GD DP), intelligent, athletic (he founded the Russian Olympic movement) and had an incredible sense of humor. Not much changed after the Revolution except he wasn't as wealthy and had some notoriety over the Rasputin affair.

Audrey could have had her pick among Americans, but clearly, her family was looking for her to marry European. Among titled Europeans at the time, Dmitri was still a "catch".
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on November 07, 2006, 12:41:56 AM
I have always wondered "WHY on earth" Audrey married Dimitri.

TampaBay

Are you serious? This is a man who was lovers with women such as Coco Chanel and Isadora Duncan. This is a man who someone said "looked like he was made by Faberge". Grand Duke Dmitri was probably one of the world's most eligible bachelors prior to the Revolution. He was rich, royal (and a double Romanov through Alexander II and Olga Constantinova, two of his grandparents), charming (the qualities ascribed to the late Paul Ilyinsky sound very much like those I've read about GD DP), intelligent, athletic (he founded the Russian Olympic movement) and had an incredible sense of humor. Not much changed after the Revolution except he wasn't as wealthy and had some notoriety over the Rasputin affair.

Audrey could have had her pick among Americans, but clearly, her family was looking for her to marry European. Among titled Europeans at the time, Dmitri was still a "catch".

However Dmitrii was implicated in the murder of Rasputin, which certainly tarnished his imperial pedigree.

With respect a Romanov cannot be a "double Romanov". He was a member of the Romanov family, plain amd simple.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 07, 2006, 12:57:38 AM
I have always wondered "WHY on earth" Audrey married Dimitri.

TampaBay

Are you serious? This is a man who was lovers with women such as Coco Chanel and Isadora Duncan. This is a man who someone said "looked like he was made by Faberge". Grand Duke Dmitri was probably one of the world's most eligible bachelors prior to the Revolution. He was rich, royal (and a double Romanov through Alexander II and Olga Constantinova, two of his grandparents), charming (the qualities ascribed to the late Paul Ilyinsky sound very much like those I've read about GD DP), intelligent, athletic (he founded the Russian Olympic movement) and had an incredible sense of humor. Not much changed after the Revolution except he wasn't as wealthy and had some notoriety over the Rasputin affair.

Audrey could have had her pick among Americans, but clearly, her family was looking for her to marry European. Among titled Europeans at the time, Dmitri was still a "catch".

However Dmitrii was implicated in the murder of Rasputin, which certainly tarnished his imperial pedigree.

With respect a Romanov cannot be a "double Romanov". He was a member of the Romanov family, plain amd simple.

Margarita

You are of course technically correct. His reputation was tarnished by the Rasputin murder; however, there are people who would have thought (from an American point of view) him more dashing because of it. Also, he was as you say, a member of the dynasty, but he was more Russian that most members and did descend from more than one branch, This would also have been more attractive to an American heiress of the time.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on November 07, 2006, 01:08:10 AM
I have always wondered "WHY on earth" Audrey married Dimitri.

TampaBay

Are you serious? This is a man who was lovers with women such as Coco Chanel and Isadora Duncan. This is a man who someone said "looked like he was made by Faberge". Grand Duke Dmitri was probably one of the world's most eligible bachelors prior to the Revolution. He was rich, royal (and a double Romanov through Alexander II and Olga Constantinova, two of his grandparents), charming (the qualities ascribed to the late Paul Ilyinsky sound very much like those I've read about GD DP), intelligent, athletic (he founded the Russian Olympic movement) and had an incredible sense of humor. Not much changed after the Revolution except he wasn't as wealthy and had some notoriety over the Rasputin affair.

Audrey could have had her pick among Americans, but clearly, her family was looking for her to marry European. Among titled Europeans at the time, Dmitri was still a "catch".

However Dmitrii was implicated in the murder of Rasputin, which certainly tarnished his imperial pedigree.

With respect a Romanov cannot be a "double Romanov". He was a member of the Romanov family, plain amd simple.

Margarita

You are of course technically correct. His reputation was tarnished by the Rasputin murder; however, there are people who would have thought (from an American point of view) him more dashing because of it. Also, he was as you say, a member of the dynasty, but he was more Russian that most members and did descend from more than one branch, This would also have been more attractive to an American heiress of the time.

Alas, to that American heiress such distinctive "virtues" were indeed acceptable.

Margarita  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 07, 2006, 01:22:06 AM
Well, we do have our virtues. However, in our popular culture, many currently celebrate people like Paris Hilton. I'm not proud of that, but it is the way it is. I understand Miss Emery was quite the vivacious one. :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on November 07, 2006, 12:04:50 PM
Yes, she seems she was the Paris Hilton type. I honestly don't know why people revere those sorts of people today, but you are right, they do. Audrey Emery was no doubt more than happy to marry Dmirtri, and it seems they both had fun loving tempraments, even if his was a bit tarnished by some things, and he was not so fun loving as he had been. He was a catch, and Audrey wanted to have fun, although perhaps this wasn't enough to build a marriage on.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 07, 2006, 12:12:04 PM
Yes, she seems she was the Paris Hilton type. I honestly don't know why people revere those sorts of people today, but you are right, they do. Audrey Emery was no doubt more than happy to marry Paul, and it seems they both had fun loving tempraments, even if his was a bit tarnished by some things, and he was not so fun loving as he had been. He was a catch, and Audrey wanted to have fun, although perhaps this wasn't enough to build a marriage on.

She was definitely not the Paris Hilton tuype. I know of no drugging or sleeping around indescriminately by Miss Emery, she was of an entirely different era. A woman who didn't mind snapping her garters - she reminds me of my grandmother who was also born around the same time as AE. Very feisty, a person who loved life. There was a big difference between that an Hilton.

Audrey married Dmitri, not Paul, who was their son. Dmitri was fun loving, but I think life was very hard for him after the murder of his father, brother, and cousins. I think they had a good marriage as far as it went - but DP probably never got over having to leave Russia, his home.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on November 07, 2006, 12:28:47 PM
I meant Dmitri, but typed Paul. Thanks for pointing that out, I must admit I don't know much about Audrey Emery, but she just seems like the '20s heiress type, although they had more class than Paris Hilton, for sure. I agree with what you said about Dmitri, and that life was very hard for him after the revolution, so he was perhaps not as fun loving,etc and I agree, he never got over having to leave Russia. I don't think he was fun loving at the time of his marriage, and yes, I am sure their marriage had its happy moments. There might have been too much regret on Dmitri's part, and too much youth on the part of Audrey's?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on November 07, 2006, 01:39:09 PM
If I recall correctly, and I don't have the book in front of me, Marie Pavlovna (Dmitri's sister) wrote very fondly of Audrey and seems to have liked her personality very much. They made a very attractive couple and any material considerations (his pedigree and her money) worked both ways. Audrey had more to do with raising their son than Dmitri did and he, by all accounts, seems to have turned out to be a wonderful person.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on November 07, 2006, 01:45:14 PM
Yes, he did turn out a wonderful person, without doubt.I think the marriage might have worked both ways, at least at first. By the time they split up and divorced clearly it wasn't working anymore, the differences were too profound, etc. Marie P didn't like many people, maybe then Audrey was something. ;)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on November 08, 2006, 09:43:23 AM
'That same spring I met there [in Biarritz] for the first time someone who was destined to occupy an importance place in my existence and through whom my life was to go into yet another phase...One morning a tall, slim figure in a tweed riding habit, mounted upon a grey mare, came trotting into the open gates of our garden and, stopping her horse on the lawn in front of the house, called out to my friend. She was greeted with delight and asked to come in....I was so struck by her appearance that in a very few moments I had joined the two girls in the hall....This...was the American girl I had heard so much about....[What]appealed to me the most when I met her was her warm, deep voice and the generous smile of her large but perfectly shaped mouth....She had pulled off her soft felt hat,and the dark brown hair fell in thick wavy masses over the high straight brow. The face was narrow yet soft in contour; the eyes were long, dark grey, heavily lashed, and full of unexpected lights and shadows. Yet it was not in beauty alone that her attraction lay; it was in her joyous, friendly manner, in her joie de vivre. This girl was Audrey Emery, who three or four years later was to take an important place in the scheme of my life. After that first meeting we saw each other occasionally both in Paris and Biarritz...[A Princess In Exile, 213-214]

Marie was increasingly worried about Dmitri's depression, which 'made him silent and morose' and fear that he 'was losing his interest in everything around him...[beginning] to complain about his health and went to see doctors who could not locate any definite physical trouble. He was restless and melancholy and it made me miserable to see him in this state...some other solution [besides medicine] for his truoble had to be found...He had reached a limit of endurance beyond which he had no strength to go. I realized that only a complete change could help him, a change which would shift the tempo of his life from a precarious to a stable one. The only way for him to achieve this was to marry...I passed in mental review those who ....might be suitable compansions for him. There was only one I could think of, however, and this was Audrey Emery, the lovely girl I had met...some time ago and had since learned to know better and to like. But, as I thought rather dejectedly, my choice could only be a theoretical one. I knew better than to try to arrange things.' [p.246]

Fate took a hand though, and MP and Dmitri found themselves at a party in France where Audrey was present. The two were introduced and that evening, when 'it was time to go home, Dmitri came up to me and rather self-consciously asked me if I minded returning to town with someone else as he would like to take Audrey...That evening I found Dmitri in a better humour than he had been for a long time.' [p.247]

Dmitri was thinking along the lines of marriage as well as he was discontented with his life and desiring a change. Marie was delighted when he told her that his choice was Audrey. Marie's relief was 'so tremendous that I was incapable of uttering a single word' though Dmitri was discouraged by the fact that he had very little to offer and 'hardly had the right to propose to her'. [p.247]

'Although I did not know Audrey well, something told me that she would be able to disregard trifles and appreciate what Dmitri had to offer her, even if it had nothing to do with the material side of life....The effect of our conversations was almost immediate; Dmitri's spilrits rose...he came to life again and set out to win. After a short courtship, Dmitri...was ready to propose, but he still was not sure of the answer. I shall never forget the evening when he had finally decided to take the risk of a refusal.' The evening he came home after proposing,  his face 'was radiating a childlike happiness...there was a slightly embarrassed air about him, more touching to me than any words could have been. ' He told Marie all about it and they talked to almost dawn. [p249-50]
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on November 08, 2006, 12:40:35 PM
I had read this book, but it had been awhile, so thanks for posting this stuff. I think it's interesting, the role Marie played in getting them together. I can see why she thought he needed Audrey, because he never really got over the revolution, nor what happened. It did not prove a lasting cure, as he still died rather young and dejected, but it must have given him some happiness, anyway.I am sure she saw some advantages in him, as he saw in her. She seems like she was nice, nothing like Paris Hilton  ;), I think the only thing they both had in common was being heiresses.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on November 08, 2006, 03:39:43 PM
More from Marie:

'Audrey had decided that in order to be in close contact with Dmitri...she would embrace our religion and join our Greek Orthodox church. A certain amount of preparation was necessary before she could do so, and I took upon myself the arrangements for instructing her...' (p.250)

She recounts a couple amusing anecdotes regarding the trouble that they had at first due to the language barrier with a Russian priest speaking in broken French to a Parisian seminary student who relayed, in faulty English, the information to Audrey. Marie said it was difficult even for her and that sometimes Audrey 'would give me a desperate look over their heads' and soon Marie had to leave because she was 'choking with an uncontrollable fit of laughter.'

The first ceremony, a civil one, was performed in Paris. Audrey, her family, Princess Paley, Irene & Natalie Paley and a few guests assembled at the main hall in and the mayor married them.  'The mayor, unaccustomed to foreign names and titles, did not pronounce one of them correctly.' They left that evening for Biarritz and the next day a Russian bishop and the priests from Paris performed the conversion ceremony. Marie and the Duke of Leuchtenberg ( a cousin) were her sponsors. The ceremony was 'long and wearisome...and I felt sorry for Audrey who did not understand a word of it.'

The couple was then married in Biarritz and Marie was 'conscious of something very special in the atmosphere; the air was vibrant with emotion...For a few brief moments we had ceased to be only refugees....tears stood in many eyes.' Audrey had asked Marie to help her with the placing of the lace veil. The veil had belonged to Grand Duchess Alexandra and which Marie had worn at her weddings. It was one of the few things salvaged, at the 'time of my escape I had sewed the veil together with other pieces of lace into a pillow upon which I had slept during the journey.' Both she and Audrey were 'so profoundly moved that we could hardly speak...'

After the ceremony, there was a reception at Audrey's home, after which the guests boarded the train to return to Paris. 'As soon as the train moved out, they [Dmitri & Audrey] sent for me, and we had some champagne which we drank out of the thick sleeping-car glasses. Next morning I accompanied the bride and bridegroom to the station from which they were to leave for England and their honeymoon.' (p.251-5)

Upon the birth of their son, Paul, Marie was named his godmother and journeyed to England. '...I rushed upstairs to Audrey's bedroom. Shouts from her greeted me all the way up. I found her still in bed but a picture of delight in silks and laces, her thick brown curls scattered over a pink crepe de Chine pillow slip....A day or two later was the christening. I could see how happy Dmitri was by the pleasure he took in the minutest details of the arrangements...At times he would rush up to Audrey's room, where I was keeping her company, and demand that I go down and admire his work...In London, while Audrey was still in bed, and especially during our stay in the cuontry, she and I spent hours in each other's company. Audrey glowed with a new inner radiance which filled the atmosphere around her with warmth; everything and everybody within reach were included in the magic circle of her happiness. I sat at the foot of her bed, never tiring of her talk, listening to her vivid accounts of her sensations. There was in her a profound satisfaction at having participated in nature's creative scheme...This to her was true life...and she revelled in its simple reality. When I left her it seemed to me that I had closed the door upon an enchanted world....Audrey is amongst the rare beings who give life around them a brighter tinge.' (p.277-9)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: allanraymond on December 04, 2006, 07:24:11 PM
Biography Section

In chasing up another query regarding the death of  Grand Duke Dmitri as I had two conflicting years I came across possible inconsistencies in the two bios for Dmitri and Marie.  

Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna at: http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/mariepavlovna.html - it mentions
Dmitri died in March, 1942.

Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich at:  http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Dmitri.html - it mentions he died in 1941.

Any idea which is the correct year of death?

Allan Raymond


Whoops! Here we go again!!!     :P      ::)     ;)

Check out the bios for Dmitri and Marie on this website. Both are exceptionally well done.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on December 04, 2006, 08:15:00 PM
Biography Section

In chasing up another query regarding the death of  Grand Duke Dmitri as I had two conflicting years I came across possible inconsistencies in the two bios for Dmitri and Marie.  

Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna at: http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/mariepavlovna.html - it mentions
Dmitri died in March, 1942.

Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich at:  http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Dmitri.html - it mentions he died in 1941.

Any idea which is the correct year of death?

Allan Raymond


My Russian language sources state Dmitri Pavlovich died in 1942.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on December 04, 2006, 10:57:32 PM
Biography Section

In chasing up another query regarding the death of  Grand Duke Dmitri as I had two conflicting years I came across possible inconsistencies in the two bios for Dmitri and Marie.  

Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna at: http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/mariepavlovna.html - it mentions
Dmitri died in March, 1942.

Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich at:  http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Dmitri.html - it mentions he died in 1941.

Any idea which is the correct year of death?

Allan Raymond


My Russian language sources state Dmitri Pavlovich died in 1942.

Margarita

All Russian sources ( I've  ever read)  say only 1942.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 06, 2006, 09:46:44 PM
I actually made this error many years ago, when there was just Bob and me on the APTM. I thought it had been corrected a long time ago. Thanks for letting me know that it isn't corrected.

His correct death year, as has been pointed out, was 1942 - it was a typo.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on December 13, 2006, 03:21:25 PM
What year did audrey die?  Does anyone know the cause of her death?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 13, 2006, 03:43:37 PM
I believe she died in 1971. Don't know a cause of death.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on December 13, 2006, 09:32:48 PM
Her NYT obit was dated Nov 26, 1971. It notes that she died in a West Palm Beach hospital 'after a brief illness'.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Tatyana on December 14, 2006, 01:08:52 AM
My mother-in-law's second husband was Audrey Emery's brother, Jack. My mother-in-law was born in 1904 & was very hip for her generation (her sister married Benny Goodman) -- She wanted to marry Jack Emery as her first husband, but her parents refused, because he was a "Card Gambler" (?). According to her, Audrey was a charming girl, but who was regarded by "the older generation" as being Fast, because it was rumoured that she "snapped her garters" at young men. So, it may be that Audrey & her siblings were regarded as Fast by the conservative older generation of the time.
My mother-in-law felt that Dmitri was so absorbed by the losses and responsibilities of his heritage that he could not be the "gay blade" (her words -- no homosexual inference intended) that Audrey desired, and their marriage just drifted apart.

TATYANA
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on December 14, 2006, 05:36:59 AM
Thanks for the info!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Marlene on December 20, 2006, 01:28:38 PM

with that connection - your children, if you have children, would have Vanderbilt descent.

My mother-in-law's second husband was Audrey Emery's brother, Jack. My mother-in-law was born in 1904 & was very hip for her generation (her sister married Benny Goodman) -- She wanted to marry Jack Emery as her first husband, but her parents refused, because he was a "Card Gambler" (?). According to her, Audrey was a charming girl, but who was regarded by "the older generation" as being Fast, because it was rumoured that she "snapped her garters" at young men. So, it may be that Audrey & her siblings were regarded as Fast by the conservative older generation of the time.
My mother-in-law felt that Dmitri was so absorbed by the losses and responsibilities of his heritage that he could not be the "gay blade" (her words -- no homosexual inference intended) that Audrey desired, and their marriage just drifted apart.

TATYANA
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Tatyana on December 21, 2006, 01:43:32 AM
Yes, that's right: my mother-in-law was a member of the (large) Vanderbilt family. The house in NYC where she grew up is now the Russian Consulate, in the "it's a small world department"!

TATYANA
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Taksa on July 14, 2007, 04:45:34 PM
There was a programme and Son'ka The Golden Hand *or how is it in English* on our main channel today. and there were documentary videos where were common people, in one video was Nick II and in one, if im not mistaken, was Dmitry. with some officers. he was smiling and was very cute.
Does anybody have  any videos with him?  :-X
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on July 14, 2007, 06:24:08 PM
Does anyone know how much money Audrey Emery was really worth and the size of the estate Paul (son of Dimitri & Audrey) inherited????

I have heard that in modern day 2007 USD ($$$) it was close to a billion dollars in total assets (property, stock, jewelry, cash...etc...)?


TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on July 14, 2007, 09:07:02 PM
From the Cincy Post:

"Audrey kept Cincinnatians enthralled by cutting a spectacular swath through international society in the '20s and '30s.

Voted one of America's 10 most beautiful women, she twice married into Russian nobility - once to Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, the cousin of Russia's last czar, Nicholas. Later, in the weeks before Grace Kelly married Prince Rainier of Monaco, papers were filled with stories hinting that Audrey - by then Princess Ilynski, a courtesy title from her marriage to the grand duke - might beat them to the altar by marrying Rainier's father. But, from her Palm Beach home, she assured Cincinnatians that she and Prince Pierre were just old friends."

At the time of Audrey's divorce from Dmitri, she was worth an estimated $6,000,000 (1938 money) but I don't know about later.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 15, 2007, 04:35:16 AM
and there were documentary videos where were common people, in one video was Nick II and in one, if im not mistaken, was Dmitry. with some officers. he was smiling and was very cute.
Does anybody have  any videos with him?  :-X

There is a video of 1912 year - a procession with the Imperial Family and their court, in the head of the procession are Nicholas II, Alexandra Fedorovna and Tsarevitch Alexey, then some court nobility, then GDss Olga Nikolayevna with GD Mikhail Alexandrovich, then GDss Tatina N. with GD Kirill, then GDss Maria N. with GD Boris and then GDss Anastasia N. with GD Dmitriy Pavlovich - he is seen by glimpse. In the tail of the Imperial procession is GDss Elizaveta Fedorovna in nun's habit and behind her other Grand Dukes.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on July 15, 2007, 08:33:36 AM
Does anyone know the cause of the break up of Grand Duke Dmitri & Audrey Emery marriage and the resulting divorce.

Was Paul Ilyinsky raised in Europe, the USA or both?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Taksa on July 15, 2007, 11:58:33 AM

There is a video of 1912 year - a procession with the Imperial Family and their court, in the head of the procession are Nicholas II, Alexandra Fedorovna and Tsarevitch Alexey, then some court nobility, then GDss Olga Nikolayevna with GD Mikhail Alexandrovich, then GDss Tatina N. with GD Kirill, then GDss Maria N. with GD Boris and then GDss Anastasia N. with GD Dmitriy Pavlovich - he is seen by glimpse. In the tail of the Imperial procession is GDss Elizaveta Fedorovna in nun's habit and behind her other Grand Dukes.

hm maybe. but Im talking about another video - there were Dmitri *if it was he* and a couple of officers rather close-up. he was smiling...hm I suppose it wasnt him.  ;D
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 15, 2007, 08:40:02 PM
Does anyone know the cause of the break up of Grand Duke Dmitri & Audrey Emery marriage and the resulting divorce.

Was Paul Ilyinsky raised in Europe, the USA or both?

TampaBay

Paul Ilyinsky was sent by the Grand Duke to live in the US in 1939 - and they never saw one another again. Paul spent his first years in both Europe and the US.

The marriage between Dmitri and Audrey broke up for a host of reasons. On his side, I don't think he ever completely got over the murders of his father, guardian Serge Alexandrovich and cousin Nicholas and family. Surviving was no boon to Dmitri, I feel. Also, Audrey was much younger than he and this can pull a couple apart.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dmitri on July 25, 2007, 01:44:57 AM
I am not sure whether Grand Duke Dmitri was sad he was not eliminated in the revolution. I think his whole world changed however. None of us can imagine what it must have been like to have so many family members murdered brutally. Who knows whether he really loved Audrey Emery. Certainly her money must have been an attraction and his title exciting for her. I'm not quite sure about their relationship. There were rumours about Dmitri's sexuality at one time and of course he only had one child. Who knows what the situation was? Unlike Felix Yussopov he really never spoke about the Rasputin murder. I am not sure whether he was more than a friend with Felix as well. There were rumours.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on July 25, 2007, 06:27:53 AM
...  I think his whole world changed however. None of us can imagine what it must have been like to have so many family members murdered brutally.

No we can never imagine Dmitrii's feelings at all. However he was not the only individual in 1917 whose family lost titles, property and later finding out that most of their family were either murdered or displaced. He was the fortunate one, he survived in exile. Many others were not so fortunate.

... Unlike Felix Yussopov he really never spoke about the Rasputin murder.

Actually, Dmitri did give at least one interview for the Parisian paper "Matin" concerning the publication of Felix's Russian language book "Konetz Rasputina" ("The End of Rasputin" in 1927).

Margarita  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 25, 2007, 04:26:26 PM
...  I think his whole world changed however. None of us can imagine what it must have been like to have so many family members murdered brutally.

No we can never imagine Dmitrii's feelings at all. However he was not the only individual in 1917 whose family lost titles, property and later finding out that most of their family were either murdered or displaced. He was the fortunate one, he survived in exile. Many others were not so fortunate.

... Unlike Felix Yussopov he really never spoke about the Rasputin murder.

Actually, Dmitri did give at least one interview for the Parisian paper "Matin" concerning the publication of Felix's Russian language book "Konetz Rasputina" ("The End of Rasputin" in 1927).

Margarita  :)

So, I'll bite, what did he say? The only thing I've ever heard about DP saying about the Rasputin murder was that he horribly regretted it, always.

As to how fortunate he was to survive, I realize you have your own perspective. To continue to live is of course a blessing, but for those who lost so much, it was a decidedly mixed blessing.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on August 18, 2007, 11:24:46 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Grand%20Dukes/granddukedmitry.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: mradams on August 29, 2007, 08:24:28 AM
Hey everyone,

I am writing a book on Boone Hall Plantation in Charleston SC and would love to include information on the previous owners Grand Duke Dmitri and Audrey Emery and her son Paul.  Specifically, I am looking for photos - this is a very unknown aspect of the plantation's history, and the more I learn about, one of the most fascinating.  I have contacted Paul's widow but she was undergoing surgery and said she really didn't know much and aware of any pictures.  Can anyone help me?  Thanks so much!!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on August 29, 2007, 11:19:01 AM
Hey everyone,

I am writing a book on Boone Hall Plantation in Charleston SC and would love to include information on the previous owners Grand Duke Dmitri and Audrey Emery and her son Paul.  Specifically, I am looking for photos - this is a very unknown aspect of the plantation's history, and the more I learn about, one of the most fascinating.  I have contacted Paul's widow but she was undergoing surgery and said she really didn't know much and aware of any pictures.  Can anyone help me?  Thanks so much!!

mradams,

While you are at it, why don't you write abook on Audrey Emery.  I find her fascinating.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Arleen on August 31, 2007, 02:50:29 PM
I've been to Boone Plantation and had no idea Dmitry and Audrey owned it at one time.....did they ever actually live there?  Or was it just her family who owned it?

This is very interesting to me.  Tell us more of what you know....please.

Arleen
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on September 03, 2007, 08:05:26 AM
I second that motion!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: mradams on September 04, 2007, 11:09:05 AM
I have a feeling I am getting her two husbands confused - and I apologize for doing so and for anything I might misspell or titles that are incorrect!!! - Prince Dmitri Djordjaze and Audrey Emory purchased the plantation in 1940.  They lived there with her son Paul (he actually came through on a tour once and told the guide about living there) until 1945 or thereabouts - they sold it during their divorce I believe.  I have contacted Paul's widow who really knew very little about their life there.  I wanted to include them in the book as they are really one of the most fascinating aspects of it's history but I need photos of them to do so.  I have a copy of an article that was printed in the local Charleston SC paper about the sale of the plantation to a Russian prince that I'll dig up tonight and post tomorrow.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 05, 2007, 11:42:43 PM
I have a feeling I am getting her two husbands confused - and I apologize for doing so and for anything I might misspell or titles that are incorrect!!! - Prince Dmitri Djordjaze and Audrey Emory purchased the plantation in 1940.  They lived there with her son Paul (he actually came through on a tour once and told the guide about living there) until 1945 or thereabouts - they sold it during their divorce I believe.  I have contacted Paul's widow who really knew very little about their life there.  I wanted to include them in the book as they are really one of the most fascinating aspects of it's history but I need photos of them to do so.  I have a copy of an article that was printed in the local Charleston SC paper about the sale of the plantation to a Russian prince that I'll dig up tonight and post tomorrow.

So the owners were Dmitri Djorjadze (who was a Georgian prince, by the way) and Audrey Emery. This makes sense. Are you looking for photos of Audrey?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: mradams on September 07, 2007, 12:23:13 PM
Yes I am and Dmitri Djordjaze and Paul - any suggestions on where to look?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 07, 2007, 03:28:53 PM
Yes I am and Dmitri Djordjaze and Paul - any suggestions on where to look?

I know someone in London who purchased the photo archives of a major photographer from the period who specialized in royalty. If you will send me your email, I will put you in touch with him. I met him at Arturo's royalty conference last year. I would suggest contacting him and also Arturo Beeche, the publisher of European Royal History Journal, who is a moderator on this Forum.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: mradams on September 11, 2007, 12:31:04 PM
Wonderful - I certainly appreciate it - mradams02@yahoo.com  Thanks again!!!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: pookiepie on September 13, 2007, 08:55:17 PM
where does the name ilinsky come from if dimitry was a romanov?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on September 13, 2007, 09:50:45 PM
From the estate (Illinskoye) where Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich was born and raised.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: pookiepie on September 15, 2007, 12:03:23 AM
why did he change his name (or hyphenate it)?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dmitri on September 15, 2007, 02:19:15 AM
Because he was the child of a morganatic marriage. His mother was not royal.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: pookiepie on September 15, 2007, 10:51:35 PM
so even as a kid, his last name was never Romanov? i didn't know that. who was his mom? i thought it was just his fathers 2nd wife who wasn't of equal standing.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dmitri on September 16, 2007, 12:22:42 AM
No Grand Duke Dmitri's wife was not considered of equal birth. Audrey Emery was a commoner. She was not royal.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: pookiepie on September 16, 2007, 12:26:09 AM
ok, never mind, i thought you were talking about GD Dimitry's mom. i know audrey wasn't royal.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dmitri on September 16, 2007, 07:33:02 AM
Grand Duke Dmitri's Mother was the former Princess Alexandra of Greece who married Grand Duke Paul, younger brother of Tsar Alexander III. She died as a result of giving birth to Dmitri.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 26, 2007, 05:53:53 PM
so even as a kid, his last name was never Romanov? i didn't know that. who was his mom? i thought it was just his fathers 2nd wife who wasn't of equal standing.

Throughout his life, Dmitri was known as HIH The Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich. So, you are correct, his last name was never Romanov because strictly speaking, royals do not have surnames.

You are also correct that Dmitri's stepmother was a morganatic wife. So, her children by Grand Duke Paul were known as Prince(ss) Paley, the Paley name being a derivative of Paul.

Dmitri's descendants could be known as either Romanov or Ilyinsky. It is my understanding that they used Ilyinsky because of negative perceptions about Russia and Russians during the Cold War. The majority of Romanov descendants use "Romanoff" or "Romanov", but there are exceptions such as the Ilyinskys.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 12, 2007, 07:43:23 AM
NOTE: this may be old news...and/or i may have completely misunderstood.   

if either is the case, my apologies.


~ ~ ~ ~
from the exhibition: 1917. Myths of Revolutions.
http://www.rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/1917-myths-kat/6.shtml

a letter from Dmitri Pavlovich to his father, Pavl Aleksandrovich.
written from Persia and dated 29 April 1917.

i'm not sure (translations from on-line translators aren't always the easiest things to understand...) but i think
this may be the only time Dmitri mentions himself with regards to Rasputin's death.

i'm hoping someone who reads Russian, can shed further light....or correct my info?

click on image for larger version

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/dmitris_letter_to_father.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/dmitris_letter_to_father.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/dmitris_letter_to_father2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/dmitris_letter_to_father2.jpg)

.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Valmont on October 12, 2007, 09:41:51 AM
I am just wondering... Was he left handed??
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on October 12, 2007, 11:56:37 AM
NOTE: this may be old news...and/or i may have completely misunderstood.   

if either is the case, my apologies.


~ ~ ~ ~
from the exhibition: 1917. Myths of Revolutions.
http://www.rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/1917-myths-kat/6.shtml

a letter from Dmitri Pavlovich to his father, Pavl Aleksandrovich.
written from Persia and dated 29 April 1917.

i'm not sure (translations from on-line translators aren't always the easiest things to understand...) but i think
this may be the only time Dmitri mentions himself with regards to Rasputin's death.

i'm hoping someone who reads Russian, can shed further light....or correct my info?



Dmitri mentions that his participation in Rasputin's murder was quite a calculated risk, he knew what he was going to do. He just want to help Nicholas II to change tack in his words.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on October 12, 2007, 06:27:49 PM
I have copies of G. D. Dmitri's letters that were sent to his father Paul Alexandrovich, which commence December 28, 1916 through to October 28, 1917.

He refers to Rasputin's murder in fairly vague terms a number of times in different letters.  Keep in mind that he was abroad and that letters were subject to censorship considerations. The Grand Duke was not immune from being subjected to these standard postal and military regulations.

Thank you brnbg aka: liljones1968 for providing the scan.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on October 12, 2007, 09:03:19 PM
I am just wondering... Was he left handed??

Trust this answers your query. My apologies for the quality of this scan.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dmitri on October 12, 2007, 09:33:14 PM
I'm glad Grand Duke Dmitri survived. Thanks for the photo Margarita. It is a rather curious one considering his involvement with the demise of Rasputin!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on October 12, 2007, 10:24:12 PM
I'm glad Grand Duke Dmitri survived. Thanks for the photo Margarita. It is a rather curious one considering his involvement with the demise of Rasputin!

Regrettably his kindly father, Grand Duke Paul (Pavel) Alexandrovich was unable to escape his bolshevik executioner.

Margarita

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: dmitri on October 12, 2007, 11:44:57 PM
Yes that was indeed a tragedy as was the murder of his half brother.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 14, 2007, 09:47:04 PM
I'm glad Grand Duke Dmitri survived. Thanks for the photo Margarita. It is a rather curious one considering his involvement with the demise of Rasputin!

Since he was a military officer, it's really not so strange that he was photographed shooting a pistol. But, I take your point.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: loulia on October 17, 2007, 04:14:41 PM
Hi everybody!
this is a great thread and I've ever find Dmitri a fascinating ans mysterious character. It's so sad we don't have a good book on him because it's hard to find information about it, and hard to understand him sometimes.
How old was Audrey at the time they got married?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on October 20, 2007, 06:52:46 AM
Early 20's I think

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 20, 2007, 08:16:07 AM
Early 20's I think

TampaBay

Audrey was definitely born in 1904, although her date of birth is reported as either July 4th or January 4th. I'm going with the former, but nonetheless, she probably married the Grand Duke at age 21 or 22, whereas he would have been about 35.

This was yet another marriage that exposes the fallacy of the often common assumption that and older man should marry a younger woman and "mold" her. The reality was, while there was geniune regard and respect between the two, she was likely too young to be a long term companion for him, and he was far too scared from his life experiences to be the kind of husband she needed.

They are, however a most interesting family and Audrey appears to have been a fascinating woman.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: loulia on October 21, 2007, 02:26:15 PM
thank you for your answer and yes I agree with you, it's a huga age difference! It probably had a big part in their marriage defeat. To be from different culture, different social background, different country, different age, raise in a different religion... sometimes doesn't help. I find rather strange they didn't feel it befre the wedding, may be it's because the courtship was too short, I don't know
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on October 22, 2007, 11:08:38 AM
Audrey got along very well with Dmitri's sister GD Marie.  It was also a good match from a social stand point.  Dmitri was Royal and Audrey had money!

I am sure family members on both sides pushed for the marriage.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 22, 2007, 12:14:30 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Grand%20Dukes/189120Dimitri-05.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: loulia on October 22, 2007, 03:13:49 PM
thank you for the picture ashanti, his eyes are so expressive! so sad we can't see their colors :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 30, 2007, 11:28:43 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/dmtryaudwedding.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: loulia on October 31, 2007, 09:31:00 AM
thank you for this wonderful picture! I've never seen it before!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on November 11, 2007, 04:07:19 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Grand%20Dukes/gdukedmtry.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on November 11, 2007, 04:43:24 AM
Very interesting photo posted above.

Is there a date and place attached to it please?

Thanks in advance.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on November 11, 2007, 11:08:42 AM
Very interesting photo posted above.

Is there a date and place attached to it please?

Thanks in advance.

Margarita

Sorry there was no date or place for it.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on November 28, 2007, 02:47:13 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/NannyFrywithMashaandDimka.jpg)
Nanny Fry w/ Maria and Dmitri
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: pookiepie on November 28, 2007, 02:07:21 PM
thats such a cute picture. where did u find it?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on November 28, 2007, 05:48:22 PM
There's a copy in a book on GD Paul's descendants by Jacques Ferrand (sp?).
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on December 04, 2007, 02:00:06 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/dmitry1939london.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on December 05, 2007, 02:30:22 AM
Don't think that this has been posted here before, but could be wrong.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/grdmtrywedding.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on December 05, 2007, 07:59:43 AM
Who are the two men in the picture above the picture of Audrey & Dimitri?

Thanks!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on December 05, 2007, 02:01:22 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/dmitry1939london.jpg)

Grand Duke Dmitry and a companion. Will have to look it up again,yeah I didn't think it was him but then again I had seen a similar picture of him in older age. This was taken in London in 1939.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Reco on December 05, 2007, 03:26:11 PM
This is Dimitri Pavlovich and Dimitri Alexandrovich, son of Ksenia and Sandro.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on December 06, 2007, 01:17:05 AM
Thanks Reco
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on December 06, 2007, 04:05:41 AM
has anyone notıced the resemblance between Fred Astaire and GD Dimitri?  İt would be intersting to know if Fred Astaire modelled his personna on Grand Duke Dimitri or if the coincidence was purely conincidental?
Just to save you a google search here are some links


First Fred
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/54/039_16412~Ginger-Rogers-Fred-Astaire-Posters.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Ginger-Rogers-Fred-Astaire-Posters_i1631891_.htm&h=425&w=339&sz=32&hl=en&start=2&um=

and now Dimitri
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duke_Dmitri_Pavlovich_of_Russia


Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: mradams on February 26, 2008, 11:42:22 AM
I wanted to ask KarlandZita where she found the profile of Audrey and Svetabel where she found the photo of Audrey, Grand Duke Dmitri and Paul and if there are any reproduction restrictions on these photos.  Thank you!!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on February 26, 2008, 12:20:07 PM
Hello,

For answer to your question, the photo of Audrey in profile come from the book " Mémoirs of Exile" by Frederic Mitterrand, but I think it is a family picture.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Princess Jil on March 05, 2008, 04:27:44 PM
A few years ago, I got to see an exhibit at the Museum Center in Cincinnati, Ohio about the Romanovs.  It was sponsered by the the Ilyinsky family of Cincinnati.  It was a great exhibt with real photos of the Tsar and his family.  It also had some objects and clothes owned by them.  At the end of the exhibt there was info and photos of Grandduke  Dimitri, Aubrey Emery, and Prince Paul Ilyinsky.  There was even a film of Prince Paul talking about the family and the Romanovs.  The film showed him and some of his grandsons visiting Russia shortly after Russia had a burial for the Romanovs.  It was very interesting.  Paul seems to be such a nice man.

It is so interesting to me that some Romanovs live just one hour from me in Cincinnati!  I had no idea before the exhibit that any existed in Ohio.  I do believe they probably live a very normal and quiet life.

I believe the reason that Dimitri ended up in Ohio was that his father-in-law owned a company in Cincinnati.  I have read that he was quite rich.  So that is probably why we have Romanovs in Ohio.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Princess Jil on March 09, 2008, 12:29:32 PM
The grandchildren of Grand Duke Dmitri and Audrey Emery sponsored an exhibit on the Romanovs.  This exhibit was held in 2005 or 2006 at the Museum Center in Cincinnati, Ohio.  I attended that exhibit.  It was wonderful!  The exhibit started out with old photos of the Tsar and his family.  Then you see old clothing, dinnerware, letters, and other things owned by the Romanovs.  The end of the exhibit had photos of Grand Duke Dmitri and Audrey Emery.  It told the story of how they met, married, and ended up in Cincinnati, Ohio.  Their son, Paul has children who still live in Cincinnati.  The exhibit also had two videos about Paul.  The first one showed him and his grandchildren in Russia shortly after the burial of the Tsar's family's bones (in the 1990s I believe).  The second video was an interview done with him while he was Mayor of Palm Beach, Florida.  It was an exhibit that was well done!

I found it very interesting to learn that there were Romanovs just living one hour away from me here in Ohio!  I think these Romanovs are very low key and I had never heard of them before this exhibit.

It seemed to me by what I read about Dmitri at that exhibit, that his participation in the murder of Rasputin actually saved his life.  He was exiled by the Tsar (at least that was what was written about him at the exhibit) for his part in the murder.  This exile I feel saved his life.  What would of happened to him if he had remained in Russsia after the revolution?  Would the Reds had killed him too like they did some of the other Royals? 

What do you all think about Dmitri's son?  He seemed to be a nice and funny man.  He also seemed to have enjoyed being the Mayor of Palm Beach, Florida! 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 10, 2008, 12:22:46 AM
The grandchildren of Grand Duke Dmitri and Audrey Emery sponsored an exhibit on the Romanovs.  This exhibit was held in 2005 or 2006 at the Museum Center in Cincinnati, Ohio.  I attended that exhibit.  It was wonderful!  The exhibit started out with old photos of the Tsar and his family.  Then you see old clothing, dinnerware, letters, and other things owned by the Romanovs.  The end of the exhibit had photos of Grand Duke Dmitri and Audrey Emery.  It told the story of how they met, married, and ended up in Cincinnati, Ohio.  Their son, Paul has children who still live in Cincinnati.  The exhibit also had two videos about Paul.  The first one showed him and his grandchildren in Russia shortly after the burial of the Tsar's family's bones (in the 1990s I believe).  The second video was an interview done with him while he was Mayor of Palm Beach, Florida.  It was an exhibit that was well done!

I found it very interesting to learn that there were Romanovs just living one hour away from me here in Ohio!  I think these Romanovs are very low key and I had never heard of them before this exhibit.

It seemed to me by what I read about Dmitri at that exhibit, that his participation in the murder of Rasputin actually saved his life.  He was exiled by the Tsar (at least that was what was written about him at the exhibit) for his part in the murder.  This exile I feel saved his life.  What would of happened to him if he had remained in Russsia after the revolution?  Would the Reds had killed him too like they did some of the other Royals? 

What do you all think about Dmitri's son?  He seemed to be a nice and funny man.  He also seemed to have enjoyed being the Mayor of Palm Beach, Florida! 

You might want to read the biography I wrote about Grand Duke Dmitri that's in the Palace Biographies section in our main site at www.alexanderpalace.com. I mention the irony of his participation in a murder likely saving his life. While it's hypothetical, there is certainly a chance that he would have been killed by revolutionaries as were many of his cousins.

His son, Paul Ilyinsky was fortunately able to live a full life and from all reports was quite a gentleman.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 10, 2008, 11:57:57 PM
These American Romanovs are all private citizens, and unless Tim Ilyinsky or Michael Ilyinsky has a legitimate son, this family's position as the senior male line (by primogeniture) of male Romanovs will come to an end upon their deaths. At present, Tim is the Furst of the Holstein - Gottorp - Romanov line.

This family has no dynastic claim to the Imperial House - not that any restoration of the Imperial Family is likely. Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich's marriage to Audrey Emery was morganatic - so Paul Ilyinsky - born aristocrat and royal though he was - had no succession rights and neither do his sons.

There are many other Romanov descendants who live in the United States. Andrei Andreivich and his family live in California, and there are also Romanovs in New York.

All are private citizens.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Tatyana on March 12, 2008, 12:12:06 AM
Lisa --
Definitely I'm missing something, but I cannot find a "Palace Biorgraphies" section, or your biography of Dmitri Pavlovich.
Audrey Emery was my mother-in-law's sister-in-law, so I'm always interested in anything to do with them.
Please let me know where I can find your write-up.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mari on March 12, 2008, 05:51:58 AM
Are there any photographs of the American Romanov's? I just wondered if there was any family resemblance to their Grandfather?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 12, 2008, 03:09:56 PM
Are there any photographs of the American Romanov's? I just wondered if there was any family resemblance to their Grandfather?

If you use Google images, you can find photos of Michael Pavlovich Ilyinsky on the web. The only photo I have of Tim (Dmitri Pavlovich) is something for which I don't have the permission to post.

There is certainly a family resembalance.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 12, 2008, 03:20:25 PM
Lisa --
Definitely I'm missing something, but I cannot find a "Palace Biorgraphies" section, or your biography of Dmitri Pavlovich.
Audrey Emery was my mother-in-law's sister-in-law, so I'm always interested in anything to do with them.
Please let me know where I can find your write-up.


http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Dmitri.html

Above is the link.

In the beginning (circa 1996?), there was just Bob and me working on the website and we wrote many of biographies for the Alexander Palace Time Machine. Much of our early work on the APTM does not have bylines. But, I can recall writing Dmitri's, Michael's and a few others. It wasn't too long after that when we met Arturo, who contributed the beautiful biography of Maria Feodorovna. And so it goes.

As a result of writing about Dmitri, I have over the years been contacted by the daughter of a friend of Audrey's, a few of her grandchildren, and the son of Dmitri's ADC who remembers the Grand Duke from long ago. So, I take it that someone from your MIL's family married one of Audrey's family?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 14, 2008, 10:25:30 PM
I believe the reason that Dimitri ended up in Ohio was that his father-in-law owned a company in Cincinnati.  I have read that he was quite rich.  So that is probably why we have Romanovs in Ohio.

Audrey Emery was from Cincinatti and her money was based there, that is the reason for the family's ties to that city and state.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Tatyana on March 15, 2008, 12:19:20 AM
My mother-in-law married Audrey Emery's brother, Jack I believe his name was. She was in love with him as a young girl, but her parents dissaproved, as he was too "fast". So, she married another beau, and after he died, she and Jack Emery married when they were both in their '80's: a very romantic story!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 20, 2008, 08:38:27 PM



It is such a shame that a biography (in book form) has never been written about Dmitri. It certainly would make for an interesting read. I can't believe some one hasn't already tackled the subject.

I have no admiration for the act itself (Rasputin’s murder), which was a cold-blooded murder and a vicious one at that. However, Felix always struck me as the more unsavory of the two best known conspirators. Perhaps that is an unfair accessment, but it is my opinion. Greg King's book, and Felix’s own autobiography, in addition to other works I've read, left me with the impression that Felix was simply a self-serving individual, without conscience. A man who committed murder not because he wanted to “save” anyone or anything, but because he longed for fame and was, apparently, willing to settle for infamy. He doesn’t appear to have seriously considered how his actions would affect his family.

Dmitri strikes me as a more complex individual. Obviously, one can never know the workings of another's heart and mind. Still, I've always felt that Dmitri's claim, that he participated because he wanted to save Russia, was sincere. He at least never attempted to profit from his participation.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on March 20, 2008, 10:24:52 PM
... I have no admiration for the act itself (Rasputin’s murder), which was a cold-blooded murder and a vicious one at that. However, Felix always struck me as the more unsavory of the two best known conspirators. Perhaps that is an unfair accessment, but it is my opinion.  ...  He doesn’t appear to have seriously considered how his actions would affect his family.

Dmitri strikes me as a more complex individual. Obviously, one can never know the workings of another's heart and mind. Still, I've always felt that Dmitri's claim, that he participated because he wanted to save Russia, was sincere. He at least never attempted to profit from his participation.


Your analysis is interesting! However do not forget the third participant, Vladimir Purishkevich.

You may recall that Ella sent Madame Yusupova a telegram expressing her congratulations for her son's "patriotic deed". It would appear that she (as had Ella) set aside any thoughts that her son was capable of taking the life of an innocent human being.

Dmitri certainly never profited financially from his participation in the criminal act. No matter what his motive may have been - he will always remain in history as a willing participant in the act of extinguishing a life not on the battlefield.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 21, 2008, 01:03:15 AM
Oh, I haven’t forgotten that there were other participants. However, they (unless some Xenia’s sons really were present as Greg King’s book suggested) were not related to the IF. Felix and Dmitri were.

It is one thing to join a plot believing, albeit falsely, that you will save your country from ruin if you murder a man. It’s another to decide that you want to be remembered in the history books or a hero in your own time, so why not kill a man. The whole thing was abhorrent, but Felix’s attitude just strikes me as extremely cold.

As I stated above, I have no admiration for Dmitri’s participation in murder. I don’t consider the act to have been patriotic, but I do believe that HE believed it to be a patriotic act. That doesn’t in anyway absolve him of guilt, but it does go to motive. He was a murderer, not the least heroic in my eyes. I just believe that he was a less callous human being on the whole, comparatively speaking, than Felix.

From his sister Marie's autobiography:
"Before deciding upon participation in the plot, Dmitri had paid Aunt Ella a visit in Moscow. He talked with her until he felt that he had a clear idea of the Empress' mental condition. It was only after that, having convinced himself that there was little hope of a normal dénouement (resolution or outcome) that he decided to join..."

I do recall Ella's response. I was surprised a nun would react in that way. I know she despised Rasputin, but a life is a life, and for a woman who chose to be a servant of God...it shocked me.

Her telegram to Dmitri dated 31 December:

"Prayed for you all. Please send letters with particulars. God grant Felix the necessary strength after the patriotic deed."

She sent this wire to Felix's father that same day:

"My prayers and thoughts are with you all. God bless your dear son for his patriotic act."

I find her reaction astonishing. I would be horrified if one of my relatives had committed murder and I certainly wouldn't want to know "particulars."

Elizabeth wrote to Nicholas asking for leinency. I think it clarifys her feelings regarding the murder and the way in which she was able to rationalize the crime. Given that Rasputin had no weapon her suggestion that it might be considered a "duel" is certainly ludicrous. I can only imagine Nicholas' response to that. It must have been so very painful for him to have his family involved. I'm remember his message to the others that petitioned him.

Here is part of Ella's letter to the Tsar:

"…here the news that Felix killed him, my little Felix I knew as a child, who all his life feared to kill, who do not wish to become military so as never to have the occasion to shed blood - and I imagine what he must have gone through to do this, and how moved by patriotism, he decided to save his sovereign and country from what we all were suffering. I telegraphed to Dmitri not knowing where the boy was - but got no answer and since then all is in a kind of silence...crime remains crime, but this one being a special kind, can be counted as a duel and it is considered a patriotic act and for these deeds the law I think is alternating. Maybe nobody has had the courage to tell you now, that in the street of the towns people kissed like at Easter week, sang the hymn in theatres and all moved by one feeling - at last the black wall between us and our Emperor is removed, at last we will see, hear, feel him as he is and a wave of pitying love for you moved all hearts. God grant that you know of this love and feel it and not miss this great movement as the storm is still and thunder rolls afar...

Your heart must be so heavy in spite of your faith in God, yet your heart must ache and maybe a doubt of the truth of the position knocks at the door of your brain, don't shut the door, open in clearly and let the bright wisdom from above enter for the welfare of all..."

Also from Ella's deposition:
"In December 1916 I had a final, decisive conversation with the Tsar and Tsarina on the subject of Rasputin. I pointed out that Rasputin rankled society, was compromising the Imperial Family and leading the dynasty to ruin. They replied that Rasputin was a great man of prayer, that all the rumors about him were slanders, and asked me not to touch on the subject any further."

Ella wasn’t the only member of the family, as I’m sure you’re aware who shared Ella’s sentiments. From Andrei’s diary dated 21 December:

“By the very fact of Dmitri’s arrest, his participation in Rasputin’s murder has been demonstrated for the whole of Russia to see. And the death of Rasputin has been welcomed throughout Russia, with rejoicing going as far as hymns being sung in theatres, people kissing on the streets, etc.

In fact the names of Yusupov and Dmitri are o everyone’s lips and they are national heroes for having liberated Russia from a nightmare of filth. The more Dmitri is persecuted, the higher he will be elevated, and this will incite the whole of Russia against Tsarskoe Selo, including the Army, who will be behind Dmitri to a man.”

Also from his diary dated 29 December:

"At 2:30 the whole family gathered at Mama's to sign a collective to Nicky, asking that Dmitri be allowed to live at Usov or Ilinskoe instead of Persia, where any stay could prove fatal for his health because of the climate.

While everyone was talking, Ducky took me aside and asked me to tell Mama to be extremely careful with Aunt Mavra, who reports everything that goes on in the family to Alix, and has already more than once badly let down members of the family. Among other things it is her fault that Nikolasha was banished to the Caucasus..."
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on March 21, 2008, 02:02:02 AM
Oh, I haven’t forgotten that there were other participants. However, they (unless some Xenia’s sons really were present as Greg King’s book suggested) were not related to the IF. Felix and Dmitri were.

Is that what King wrote? There is no evidence that Ksenya's sons were also at the Moika Palace at the time. The two brothers were certainly at Nikolayevskaya railway station ready to depart for the Crimea with Felix.

It is one thing to join a plot believing, albeit falsely, that you will save your country from ruin if you murder a man. It’s another to decide that you want to be remembered in the history books or a hero in your own time, so why not kill a man. The whole thing was abhorrent, but Felix’s attitude just strikes me as extremely cold.

If you mean that Felix was "cold" because of his complete indifference to life, then yes he was "cold". I would also add that Felix was intoxicated by the thrill of his performance.

As I stated above, I have no admiration for Dmitri’s participation in murder. I don’t consider the act to have been patriotic, but I do believe that HE believed it to be a patriotic act. That doesn’t in anyway absolve him of guilt, but it does go to motive. He was a murderer, not the least heroic in my eyes. I just believe that he was a less callous human being on the whole, comparatively speaking, than Felix.

I see little difference between Dmitri and Felix in this regard. Both believed they were acting for the good of Russia for different reasons. It was certainly a fine demonstration of misguided patriotism.

I do recall Ella's response. I was surprised a nun would react in that way. I know she despised Rasputin, but a life is a life, and for a woman who chose to be a servant of God...it shocked me.

Elizabeth wrote to Nicholas asking for leinency. I think it clarifys her feelings regarding the murder and the way in which she was able to rationalize the crime. Given that Rasputin had no weapon her suggestion that it might be considered a "duel" is certainly ludicrous. I can only imagine Nicholas' response to that. It must have been so very painful for him to have his family involved. I'm remember his message to the others that petitioned him.

The remarkable aspect is that not one historian that I can identify has ever examined this episode in Ella's life in any detail. She knew that the murder was going to happen and failed to act, if not but to save a life. The entire episode is so contradictory against her professed devotion to the teachings of the Church.

Indeed Nikolai II was appalled that his extended family saw nothing wrong that an innocent man was killed who in reality harmed no one. The petition they sent was to seek leniency for Dmitri.

Here is part of Ella's letter to the Tsar:

"...crime remains crime, but this one being a special kind, can be counted as a duel and it is considered a patriotic act and for these deeds the law I think is alternating.

Ella seemed to have forgotten that Rasputin was lured as a guest and that Rasputin was received in the Moika Palace unarmed. The confrontation was indeed uneven. Furthermore Ella seemed somewhat confused about the application of Imperial law as it stood in 1916.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on March 21, 2008, 02:15:50 AM
... Ella wasn’t the only member of the family, as I’m sure you’re aware who shared Ella’s sentiments.

Ella was one of sixteen persons who put their signature to that document. One can only wonder why she failed to take up a moral position about the act of murder. Instead she found no fault with Dmitri's willingness to participate (nor did she deter Felix).

One can hardly express surprise why Alexandra Fedorovna severed ties with her sister under these circumstances.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 21, 2008, 02:54:56 AM
I know without a doubt I read in some book during the 90s that supposedly Xenia’s older sons, or at least Feodor, may have been present along with certain society ladies. I’m almost certain that was included in King’s book about Felix, but I read it over a decade ago.

I would agree that Felix was intoxicated by the thrill of the fame and public adoration that would result from the murder. However, I have always felt his claims of patriotism rang hollow. He came across as clever, witty, but incredibly shallow in his autobiography, and other books mentioning him did little to change my opinion on that score. I find it hard to believe that he was capable of being inspired by duty or patriotism; he came across as far too self-serving. I’ll leave it there since this isn’t a thread about Felix. It’s my fault for going off in that direction. I only brought him up because I wanted to point out what I felt was a difference between his motivations for murdering Rasputin and Dmitri’s own.

I'm not surprised at all that Alix cut herself off from Ella. Given her personality and her firm belief in Rasputin I find it incredible that Dmitri would not have understood how she would react. Obviously, he shouldn't have participated because murder itself is a vile thing. That said he also should have known that Alix would view him not only as Rasputin's murderer, but as the de facto murderer of Alexei in a sense. Alix saw Rasputin as Alexei's safeguard, the one being who could keep him alive. Dmitri removed that being and in doing so endangered Alexei. I've often wondered what he thought the end result of his actions would be. Did he believe that the next step would be to exile Alix as others in the IF wished to do? If so, how can he have been foolish enough to believe that Nicholas would ever agree to that? Did they intend to make Nicholas exile Alix using force? Did he think they could remove Nicholas himself? I don't understand what he thought would come of this, what the family's next step would be. He should have known N&A both well enough to realize the futility of murdering Rasputin.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on March 22, 2008, 03:22:33 PM
First of all there can be no doubt that the exile of Grand Duke Dimitry saved his life and the part of his fortune that he was able to extract from Russia before the revolution.  HIs son downplayed his aristocratic background but allowed his children to use their titles.  Paul was a very succesful mayor of Palm Beach and Palm Beach gained from his unpaid or barely paid management.  As for the death of Rasputin, most members of the aristocracy viewed his continued living as a danger to them and to everything they valued. Aside from Alexandra, there were probably not too many members of Russian society who mourned his death.  There was a rumour that the plot was hatched by British secret  service agents who were worried that social unstability (that Rasputin was contributing to with his unpopularity) would erupt into revolution and pull Russia out of the war.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 23, 2008, 12:38:06 AM
Alexandra's stubborn refusal to distance herself at all from Rasputin was certainly part of Dmitri's decision to participate in the murder. Had she been less bull headed, the plot involving Dmitri might never have happened.

Certainly surviving in exile was in a way a great punishment for him. Before he was thirty, his biological and both sets of "adoptive" parents were dead, with his father, the Imperial couple and Ella and Serge all killed by revolutionaries. While I'm certain he loved Audrey and Paul, how happy could he have ever been after sustaining all of these losses?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on March 23, 2008, 07:30:58 AM
I think that understanding Alexandra's character is one of the necessities to understanding why revolutions occurred in Russia She had a combination of stubbornness, lack of knowledge and a superstitious nature that caused problems and eventually caused her and her family's deaths.  It certainly created the problem that Dimitri tried to solve.
  In cases where a person survives when most people like him are annihilated there is a sense of guilt about surviving and where there is an erasing of everything you knew as a child, then the roots of your being are destroyed and you wind up with a feeling of emptyness.  It would have been a miracle if he had been happy.
  His son Paul and probably his other children had two sides to choose from (an American and an Imperial Russian side)  I think that Paul chose to develop his American side and to use his Romanov heritage for his benefit and I think he was probably happier than his father
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on March 23, 2008, 10:20:18 AM
Re: Post #272;  your third paragraph:  I agree.    AP
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on March 23, 2008, 06:46:27 PM
Alexandra's stubborn refusal to distance herself at all from Rasputin was certainly part of Dmitri's decision to participate in the murder. Had she been less bull headed, the plot involving Dmitri might never have happened.

I realize that. I simply don’t understand what good Dmitri believed would come of it. He knew Nicholas too well (or should have) to honestly believe that he would willingly desert Alexandra. He should have known that killing Rasputin would not weaken her influence over Nicholas. It just seems like such a pointless action, because it was only bound to further isolate Nicholas from his family. How could he not realize that Nicholas would never approve of murder? It should not have surprised any member of his family that Nicholas chose to cut himself off from them to an even greater extent after Rasputin’s death. Unless Dmitri believed that the next step was to overthrow Nicholas, and I’m not convinced that he did, I simply don’t see what good Dmitri could have believed would result from killing Rasputin. Removing Rasputin accomplished nothing, because Rasputin was not at the root of the problem, Alexandra was, and Nicholas would never have consented to her exile.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: pandora on March 23, 2008, 09:00:08 PM
Nadya - No, killing Rasputin didn't accomplish anythiing. IMO, Rasputin was the family's scapegoat for their problems, specifically, and Russia's problems in general.

And your earlier points regarding Ella are interesting in that legally, her knowledge of the crime before & after the fact certainly implicate her as an accessory to the act which is in such marked contradiction to her religious beliefs and her being a nun...so very sad, IMO

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on March 24, 2008, 12:08:28 AM
I am not sure that rationality played any part.  Russia was losing a war, revolution had already raised its head in 1905 and was simmering under the surface and the imperial family would not distance themselves from Rasputin.  Rasputin was dragging down the entire Romanov family's reputation,  And once Nicholas had taken direct command of the military he was being blamed for the losses on the field.  It is impossible to say what was going through his mind at the time but I suspect that desperation and exasperation were prime motivating factors and I don't think Dimitri was all that concerned with what Nicholas would think about the act.  I think he could smell the end of the Russia that he knew and he wanted to try to save any part of it he could.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: William on July 07, 2008, 10:37:32 AM
Re the Rasputin murder - I agree that logic and rationality had nothing to do with it.  If you consider the desperate straights in which Russia found herself at the time, with the IF fragmented and out of touch with the Grand Court, hot-headed and perhaps self indulgent actions were bound to ensue.  I am not convinced that Dimitri involvement was either because he was jealous of Youssupov's "relationship" with Grigory, nor that he was striking back at Alexandra.  I sense that his intentions were noble - naively believing that with Rasputin's influence removed, Alexandra's influence on the Tsar might wane.  He got it badly wrong.  Don't forget that the anti-Rasputin feeling in Petrograd was at fever pitch and the entire nobility was looking for someone to be the heroic saviour of Russia - maybe he just got carried away, with encouragement from Felix.

On the question of the Imperial Family's surname - the family regarded themselves as Romanov, they were referred to as Romanov by the revolutionaries - so I guess that is what they were.  In the same way that we might refer to Queen Elizabeth's family as "the Windsors".  We all know that the genealogy is complex and with some interference they would have lost Romanov generations before, but as with so many families they chose to carry on the name through the female line.  i think this is legitimate and not incorrect for any one call the family the Romanov family.

Now, when it comes to using the appelation if you had married out of your class (ie morganatically), the rule of thumb was that you couldn't:  You may be given a courtesy title - but you were kicked out of your tribe, as the Wurtemburgs did with the Tecks, and the Hesses did with the Battenbergs (although of course those branches of the family did very nicely thank you, and found favour in their families again, albeit with a different name).

Post Revolution, however, I am not sure that the same holds good.

Grand Duke Dimitry married Miss Emery after the revolution.  There was no Imperial Russia, no Tsar and no extant conventions for debarring her the name of Romanov(a). She was after all just Mrs Dimitry Romanov  with a redundant title.  Whether GD Kyrill Valdimirovitch had the right to insist that she called herself something else is a moot point.  One of my relatives once said "they (surviving IF)had no country, no fortune and no Tsar, all they had was their name - and they even want to take that away from them".  However if they were happy with their Krassinskies, Illinskies etc then why worry over much.

Just musings...................   
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 07, 2008, 03:59:00 PM
Actually, even though there was no more Imperial Russia, and no Tsar, Grand Duke Dmitri did not by benefit of the Revolution suddently become "Mr. Dmitry Romanov" (and so by inference, his wife could never have been "Mrs. Dmitri Romanov"). He was born HIH The Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich of Russia and he never legally changed his name. His wife, therefore, had no legal married name absent what was granted to her by Kiril. So, his granting of the style HSH Princess Ilyinskya-Romanovski may be of no import to you or others, but at the time, it mattered to her and her husband.

When their son Prince Paul Ilyinsky came to the United States to complete his education (and to survive) he decided to not use his style here in the United States. As the only son of a Russian Grand Duke, he didn't have a legal last name either, so he chose to become Mr. Paul Ilyinsky here in the United States.

So, it wasn't a matter of "happiness", it was a matter of not having legal surnames and the efforts made to help assist the survivors and their descendants in their new lives outside of Russia.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: William on July 08, 2008, 03:50:05 PM
My point is that once the Russiam Empire foundered, Their Imperial Highnesses became an irrelevance, and, in Russia became Citizens Romanov(a), and outside of Russia they may have been accorded whatever dignity their hosts allowed.  I may be wrong, but, I have always believed that in the US, citizens may not have or use titles.  Names and titles are not the same thing.

I am not at all sure that creating second degree (HSH) titles and made up names helped anyone.  What would have been far more intelligent a strategy would have been for Kyrill, Nick-Nick and others to bury their differences, recognise that they were the remnants of (let's face it) a highly disfunctional family, and in stead of waging wars of words from St Briac, Copenhagen or Rome, declare themselves all Romanovs and get a little credibility. 

Moving to today, look at the LIVING dynasties: Spain's Crown Princess is a commoner, so is Denmark's, Sweden's next sovereign is a girl, heirs apparent and presumptive have married outside of their gene pool and will one day reign in spite of that.

If Dimitry Pavlovitch had decided to become a US citizen, there is nothing to have stopped them becoming Mr and Mrs D. Romanov (and indeed they could have done that at any time, anywhere and nobody in this world could have prevented them (and certainly not KV).

One more thing.... in Great Britain at least, you can legally call yourself anything you like (as long as it is not for nefarious purposes). To change your name on the electoral rolls/passports  you need to change the name by deed poll - a very simple matter and you have every right to do it if you wish.

It will soon be 100 years since it ended.......If Russia decided to ask a Romanov to reign today or tomorrow....well.....that would give us something very real to think about, wouodn't it?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Valmont on July 25, 2008, 03:18:29 PM
I wonder, Di he leave any diaries??. I have only read references to his letters or what other people wrote about him..but mot any diary entry...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on July 25, 2008, 09:38:28 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/dmtrywm.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on September 05, 2008, 10:54:49 PM
Nice photo.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 07, 2008, 04:44:24 PM
My point is that once the Russian Empire foundered, Their Imperial Highnesses became an irrelevance, and, in Russia became Citizens Romanov(a), and outside of Russia they may have been accorded whatever dignity their hosts allowed.  I may be wrong, but, I have always believed that in the US, citizens may not have or use titles.  Names and titles are not the same thing.

I am not at all sure that creating second degree (HSH) titles and made up names helped anyone.  What would have been far more intelligent a strategy would have been for Kyrill, Nick-Nick and others to bury their differences, recognise that they were the remnants of (let's face it) a highly disfunctional family, and in stead of waging wars of words from St Briac, Copenhagen or Rome, declare themselves all Romanovs and get a little credibility. 

Moving to today, look at the LIVING dynasties: Spain's Crown Princess is a commoner, so is Denmark's, Sweden's next sovereign is a girl, heirs apparent and presumptive have married outside of their gene pool and will one day reign in spite of that.

If Dimitry Pavlovitch had decided to become a US citizen, there is nothing to have stopped them becoming Mr and Mrs D. Romanov (and indeed they could have done that at any time, anywhere and nobody in this world could have prevented them (and certainly not KV).

One more thing.... in Great Britain at least, you can legally call yourself anything you like (as long as it is not for nefarious purposes). To change your name on the electoral rolls/passports  you need to change the name by deed poll - a very simple matter and you have every right to do it if you wish.

It will soon be 100 years since it ended.......If Russia decided to ask a Romanov to reign today or tomorrow....well.....that would give us something very real to think about, wouodn't it?

I think that is unlikely.

The point is, you said Audrey was "Mrs. Dmitri Romanov". And I told you, no she was not, and why she was not,

No matter that Dmitri Pavlovich could have become American, he didn't! And it's not for you or anyone else to try take away his name, his son's name, or even his wife's name. Revolution is no excuse. And, stop changing your logic just because you were wrong. Admit it and move on, please.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: GDDimitri on October 08, 2008, 02:52:35 AM
I started the thread below in "Imperial Russian Antiques" regarding an object given by GD Dimitri to an uncle of mine. As he did some "design" before, I'm almost convinced he designed this trophy as well.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11902.0

regards,
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: William on November 01, 2008, 04:15:07 AM
I don't visit this site very often, hence the late acknowledgment of your post.

Oddly enough, I believe that it is your response lacks logic, or at least demonstrates that you either don't read what people write, don't bother to try and understand a valid point of view, or more likely are so hide bound in an almost fetish like adherence to defunct and derelict conventions as to have anything interesting to say.

I am not attempting to change anyone's name.  My whole point is that people can call themselves what they like and quite legitimately. 

I am neither wrong nor am i right.  There is no right or wrong.  It is entirely relevant in 2008.  If Dmitri and his family called themselves what they were happy with then well and good.  But there was another way - and it would have meant thumbing his nose to what was left of the old "establishment".  I sense that his own sense of duty would prevent him from doing that. However, i wish he had, because that old guard did nothing for the esteem and credibility of Russia's former ruling family.

So before slapping "right or wrong" stickers on posts, and telling people to move on - consider first what people are saying, give considered opinions and views and perhaps this site will be worth more frequent visits.  Most contributors are well informed, have fascinating insight, or are just keen to find out more.  To them - "thank you" for making this site worth the occasional visit.



Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 02, 2008, 01:03:01 AM
I don't visit this site very often, hence the late acknowledgment of your post.

Oddly enough, I believe that it is your response lacks logic, or at least demonstrates that you either don't read what people write, don't bother to try and understand a valid point of view, or more likely are so hide bound in an almost fetish like adherence to defunct and derelict conventions as to have anything interesting to say.

I am not attempting to change anyone's name.  My whole point is that people can call themselves what they like and quite legitimately. 

I am neither wrong nor am i right.  There is no right or wrong.  It is entirely relevant in 2008.  If Dmitri and his family called themselves what they were happy with then well and good.  But there was another way - and it would have meant thumbing his nose to what was left of the old "establishment".  I sense that his own sense of duty would prevent him from doing that. However, i wish he had, because that old guard did nothing for the esteem and credibility of Russia's former ruling family.

So before slapping "right or wrong" stickers on posts, and telling people to move on - consider first what people are saying, give considered opinions and views and perhaps this site will be worth more frequent visits.  Most contributors are well informed, have fascinating insight, or are just keen to find out more.  To them - "thank you" for making this site worth the occasional visit.



I presume you are referring to my reply, although I am uncertain.

I also think you may have misinterpreted my replies. You said:

Grand Duke Dimitry married Miss Emery after the revolution.  There was no Imperial Russia, no Tsar and no extant conventions for debarring her the name of Romanov(a). She was after all just Mrs Dimitry Romanov with a redundant title.  Whether GD Kyrill Valdimirovitch had the right to insist that she called herself something else is a moot point.  One of my relatives once said "they (surviving IF)had no country, no fortune and no Tsar, all they had was their name - and they even want to take that away from them".  However if they were happy with their Krassinskies, Illinskies etc then why worry over much.

At no time did I say that the Grand Duke or his small family were not entitled to call themselves whatever they wished. And, I did understand your point about the fact that after the Revolution, for people like us, titles were rather beside the point.

I don't think you understood my point, which was, while you were making your point, you made several factual errors, which I tried to politely point out to you without ignoring your perfectly reasonable argument. Instead of listening, you continued to not acknowledge what was incorrect about how you made your point - something you are continuing to do in yet another post. To repeat:

1. There was no such person as "Mrs. Dmitry Romanov". (Even the wife of Dmitry's grandson is known as "Mrs. Dmitry Ilyinsky", because Ilyinsky is used by his branch of the family as a surname.)
2. There was no redundancy in Grand Duke Dmitry's title.
3. Grand Duke Kirill did no such thing. He accommodated a request for several of his cousins who, lacking surnames and having married morganatically, needed to have family names or styles for their wives and children.
4. Romanoff is now used by several branches of the family as a surname but was not so used while Dmitry was alive.

By the way, there is nothing personal in this. It's just, if I don't try correct factual errors, people keep repeating them as though they were true. (As when I read often on this site - "women could not inherit the throne" - not true, of course.). I presume that you will continue to not acknowledge these so will have to continue to point them out so that our members don't suddenly start referring to Miss Emery as "Mrs. Dmitry Romanov".
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 10, 2009, 11:42:37 AM


Dimitri, Audrey and Paul:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Dimitri%20and%20maria/escanear0036lz21.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 10, 2009, 08:47:33 PM
They're releasing of film of Coco Chanel's life starring Audrey Tatou. It seems like it will focus on the younger Coco so has anyone heard if Dmitri will be featured and who may be playing him?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 10, 2009, 09:34:49 PM
Paul is so cute in that photo with his parents.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on January 11, 2009, 10:48:31 AM
Lovely family photo indeed. But what contrast between Dimitri which seems old and tired and his wife Audrey more radiant than ever!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on March 18, 2009, 12:58:28 PM
Michael lives in Cincinatti and Palm Beach.  I think he has daughters but is engaged.  This would be morganatic anyway so primogeniture probably doesnt come into the picture.  He has stated that he has no wish to return to Russia in a monarchistic position although he returns 2 times a year for visits.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 18, 2009, 03:25:11 PM
Michael lives in Cincinatti and Palm Beach.  I think he has daughters but is engaged.  This would be morganatic anyway so primogeniture probably doesnt come into the picture.  He has stated that he has no wish to return to Russia in a monarchistic position although he returns 2 times a year for visits.

The heir of line issue is totally separate from the issue of Imperial Succession.

The succession to the Imperial House - which is a dynastic issue - is in dispute. Most support Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna.

The heir of line - by male primogeniture - is Tim Ilyinsky - aka HSH Prince Dmitri Ilyinsky - who is the senior male heir for the Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov line.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on March 18, 2009, 11:38:08 PM
To say it is in dispute is an understatement.  Maria Vladimirovna has quite a pr machine and travels to Russia quite freguently.  I doubt that the claim to the throne will actually be realized, as Russia under Putin seems to be going in a completely different direction.  I don't know anything about Iliyinsky. 
   I would think thatthrone probably doesnt bother him. as Michael Iliyinsky has not interest in the throne of Russia anyway, the fact that he is not in line for succession is not a bother for him.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on March 23, 2009, 03:51:25 AM
yes it is......Brad Kroenig as Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich with Edita Vilkeviciute as Coco Chanel
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 31, 2009, 01:28:25 AM
To say it is in dispute is an understatement.  Maria Vladimirovna has quite a pr machine and travels to Russia quite freguently.  I doubt that the claim to the throne will actually be realized, as Russia under Putin seems to be going in a completely different direction.  I don't know anything about Iliyinsky. 
   I would think thatthrone probably doesnt bother him. as Michael Iliyinsky has not interest in the throne of Russia anyway, the fact that he is not in line for succession is not a bother for him.

I would not presume to speak for either Tim or Michael Ilyinsky, but I am given to understand that there is no interest in dynastic succession with either gentleman.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: V_Corona on April 04, 2009, 04:35:18 PM
Does anyone know the name of the Chateau, near to Paris, that Audrey gave to Dimitri after they get divorced?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on April 08, 2009, 12:26:46 PM
The video is no longer available.


I had no problem with it.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on April 12, 2009, 08:26:17 AM
Audrey and Dimitri riding horses :


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/dimiaudrey-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on April 14, 2009, 09:24:08 AM
Was Dimitri in love with Coco Chanel?  Was Coco in love with Dimitri?

I think Boy Chapel was out of the picture by the time Dimitri came along.

Did Coco dump Dimitri for the Duke of Westminster?

I have read many places the Coco wanted to marry Westminster.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on April 15, 2009, 12:42:53 AM
Was Dimitri in love with Coco Chanel?  Was Coco in love with Dimitri?


Their affair doens't look like a great romantic love actually. Seemed Coco just added to her collection of love affairs a prestiguious Royal  lover like GD Dmitriy (though he was penniless but the genealogy was rich!!!). The Grand Duke itself seemed lost in the post-War and post-Revolution years, he was living without really close friends (except hi sister Maria, certainly) and his own family. Probably the affair with Coco was a great entertainment for him, a sort of oblivion in the merry but wild and cruel world for a Grand Duke in the 1920s.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on April 15, 2009, 12:37:54 PM

Was Dimitri in love with Coco Chanel?  Was Coco in love with Dimitri?



Their affair doesn't look like a great romantic love actually. Seemed Coco just added to her collection of love affairs a prestigious Royal lover like GD Dmitri (though he was penniless but the genealogy was rich!!!). The Grand Duke itself seemed lost in the post-War and post-Revolution years, he was living without really close friends (except hi sister Maria, certainly) and his own family. Probably the affair with Coco was a great entertainment for him, a sort of oblivion in the merry but wild and cruel world for a Grand Duke in the 1920s.


The real story IMO is Audrey Emery.  Someone needs to write a book on her and her descendants.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 15, 2009, 01:20:58 PM

Was Dimitri in love with Coco Chanel?  Was Coco in love with Dimitri?



Their affair doesn't look like a great romantic love actually. Seemed Coco just added to her collection of love affairs a prestigious Royal lover like GD Dmitri (though he was penniless but the genealogy was rich!!!). The Grand Duke itself seemed lost in the post-War and post-Revolution years, he was living without really close friends (except hi sister Maria, certainly) and his own family. Probably the affair with Coco was a great entertainment for him, a sort of oblivion in the merry but wild and cruel world for a Grand Duke in the 1920s.


The real story IMO is Audrey Emery.  Someone needs to write a book on her and her descendants.

TampaBay

I would love to see that, but I think the book would still need the full support of Audrey Emery's descendants,  all are private citizens with no obligation to do so.

As to the Grand Duke and his love affairs, Dmitri was arguably the world's most eligible bachelor right before WWI, and his physical beauty was such that it was easy to dismiss him as nothing more than a pretty face. However, there was an often brilliant mind beneath the attractive exterior. I suspect he had many less affairs than he could have, and his attraction to Chanel and hers to him may have had as much to do with their collective brilliance as it did their outward charm. Remember, collectively they developed Chanel No. 5, and he is often credited with the design of the distinctive, jewel like bottle.

All that said, I suspect that he was not in love with her, but I doubt she was "entertainment"  for him, as he was not a frivolous person. I'm quite sure he was in love with Audrey Emery, but all of the sadness of losing so much of his family was probably too much of a weight for him to bear. Just how I see it after studying him for many years.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on April 29, 2009, 11:21:08 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/B862BB.jpg)
Dmitri with George of Greece

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/B862CY-1.jpg)
Dmitri and Maria
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on April 29, 2009, 11:22:10 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/B862B5.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/B85YMH.jpg)
This I thought to be a very mature looking picture for such a young boy.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on May 07, 2009, 01:37:38 PM
Does anyone know the name of the Chateau, near to Paris, that Audrey gave to Dimitri after they get divorced?



it's Beaumesnil - here is the link
http://www.chateaubeaumesnil.com/accueil_anglais.html
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 10, 2009, 03:08:30 PM
Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/royalty/RAE-529.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 20, 2009, 03:08:05 PM
1914

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/marked/80092081.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on June 30, 2009, 06:35:52 PM
Hello all,

 I am new to posting but have been a fan of the Romanovs all my life. :) Hopefully some of you experts will be able to answer my questions.   ;D

I came across this article from the archives of the new york times stating that Grand Duke Dmitri was shot and seriously wounded in 1914 during an "engagement" on the Warta River in Poland, though it does not say much else I will post the link. Just click on the blue button: 'view full article' under the headline and it opens as a pdf.

I have never in my life heard that Dmitri was shot and I have done a fair bit of research on him. Does anyone know if this is just a rumor that somehow developed credibility in the united States or has anyone else heard and can verfiy? and provide details?

THANKS! here is the link:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D02EFDA1438E033A25755C2A9679D946596D6CF
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on July 03, 2009, 09:43:09 AM
The international motor-car exhibition, St Petersburg, 1913.
GD Maria Pavlovna (elder), GD Victoria Fyodorovna and GD Dimitri Pavlovich.
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1382/1913theinternationalmot.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on July 05, 2009, 06:40:17 PM
This is the first time I've ever read that GD Dimitri was wounded in WWI - seems highly unlikely, especially because the source is German.  Never say never, but seems highly unlikely.

dca
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Teddy on July 06, 2009, 03:59:18 PM
The international motor-car exhibition, St Petersburg, 1913.
GD Maria Pavlovna (elder), GD Victoria Fyodorovna and GD Dimitri Pavlovich.
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1382/1913theinternationalmot.jpg)

Where did you get this one? Book?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on July 06, 2009, 08:31:33 PM
By the look of the watermark, it appears to be from the photo archive.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on July 07, 2009, 01:44:31 PM
By the look of the watermark, it appears to be from the photo archive.

Yes, it's from photoarchive.
And I have another one:
(http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/7157/1913inthemikhailovskyma.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Teddy on July 07, 2009, 02:56:01 PM
Extraordinary, that so many pictures are still in different archives.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on July 07, 2009, 03:45:56 PM
"This is the first time I've ever read that GD Dimitri was wounded in WWI - seems highly unlikely, especially because the source is German.  Never say never, but seems highly unlikely."

I agree--something like this would have been more widely known if it had been true. Did GD Dmitri enter in combat during WWI at all? I know when he was in exile in Kazvin the Tsar was promised that Dmitri would not be put in any position that might cause him harm, such as direct combat, so why would he be fighting before that, especially when he was in better favor to the Tsar then?
PS the New York Time seems to have published a lot of silly rumors about the Grand Duke throughout his life, without ever naming their sources. I imagine this bit is one of them.

on a side note here is a nice photo, good quality, I had never seen before:

http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki/files/100/dmitrii_pavlovich__1916.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 19, 2009, 01:01:11 AM
This is the first time I've ever read that GD Dimitri was wounded in WWI - seems highly unlikely, especially because the source is German.  Never say never, but seems highly unlikely.

dca

I believe he was injured - if I can ever unpack from this remodel, I might find the source! What I am sure about is that he was awarded the Order of St. George for valor in combat.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on July 23, 2009, 05:52:48 PM
Dear Lisa,

I know better than going up against you on anything Romanov related.  Your knowledge base on this subject is mighty deep!! *grin*.  Do let us know what you find - it would be good to know for sure.  Hope all is well in sunny California my friend.

best,
dca
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on August 11, 2009, 08:06:07 PM
Since I now have a working kitchen again, I once again have access to my books, so will look up!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ladytaksa on August 24, 2009, 08:21:47 AM
maybe anyone hasn't seen...

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/th_eiv05.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/?action=view&current=eiv05.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on August 24, 2009, 04:13:25 PM
what a great find, ladytaksa! thanks for sharing :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on August 24, 2009, 07:04:32 PM
maybe anyone hasn't seen...

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/th_eiv05.jpg) (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/?action=view&current=eiv05.jpg)

I'm sorry Ladytaska, I am not sure that I understand - Does this picture have something to do with Dimitri being wounded during WWI?

Many thanks
dca
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ladytaksa on August 25, 2009, 03:15:36 AM
Sasha, you're welcome.

Dominic_Albanese, no...it's just a picture...I've wanted to share..
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: nena on August 25, 2009, 08:42:12 AM
Caption says:

Heir Tsarevich Alexei Nicholaievich and Grand Duke Dmitrii Pavlovich (November of 1915)


Again -- amazing find. No, they were reviewing troops at Stvaka during WW1 only.  ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on August 28, 2009, 10:58:19 PM
lisa--

you say he was awarded the order of st george, do you have a picture of what this medal looks like? or is it just the typical iron cross that he wore?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on August 31, 2009, 02:19:18 PM
I don't have a photo of his wearing it.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on August 31, 2009, 09:13:04 PM
i didn't mean a photo of him, but never mind. here's a link to a picture of it if anyone cares:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/StGeorgeClass1Russia.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on August 31, 2009, 09:13:59 PM
ps : the ribboned one is the old class 1, and the medal to the right is the modern order.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 23, 2009, 10:55:33 AM
Was Dimitri in love with Coco Chanel?  Was Coco in love with Dimitri?

I think Boy Chapel was out of the picture by the time Dimitri came along.

Did Coco dump Dimitri for the Duke of Westminster?

I have read many places the Coco wanted to marry Westminster.

TampaBay

Dmitri and Chanel were together for about one year 1920 - 1921. During this time, Dmitri helped her with the development of her famous Chanel No 5 perfume, introducing her to a Russian expatriate chemist who blended the scent and helping to design the famous bottle. Chanel No 5 remains the top selling perfume in the world to this day.

Reportedly, the two remained friends throughout their lives. My read? They were probably lovers who found they made better friends, so I doubt they were in love.

Chanel met the Duke in 1925 and they remained together for 5 years. During this time, he divorced wife number 2. So, she didn't dump Dmitri for Hugh (the Duke), might have wanted to marry him, and as he didn't remarry until his split with Chanel in 1930, he may have been in love with her. My read? I'll go for these two being in love but a marriage would not have suited.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on September 28, 2009, 05:05:00 AM
This come from thread about Duke and Dukess of Windsor ( but still about GD Dmitro P)

Quote from ERric I love the book Greg King did on the Duchess, it was reasonable and fair (unlike others who claim she was a German spy, a woman who learn sexual tricks in China or even worst a man !). However some of the stuff on the Romanovs sounds balmy...including a claim Serge might have sexual molested his nephew Dimitri...

Quote from Janet Ashton I have a friend who has studied Dmitri in depth for years - in fact, you may have seen him speak. He has heard this tale about Serge too, and not from Greg, who he doesn't know. It came from another Romanov historian; no idea where she heard it first; but I should add that Witte mentions rumours that Serge abused or took advantage of young cadets. My friend had a qualified child analyst consider the claim that Dmitri was abused, and received the opinion that his personality showed definite signs of trauma consistent with something of the kind (depression, moodiness and so on). The clincher - precocious sexual interest in other children - was absent, but I would not be to quick to rule this theory out and label it as crazy. I happen to know this author very well indeed and he is certainly not crazy.

Have you got more info about that and what is exactly Dmitri doing in a book about Wallis??
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 28, 2009, 04:36:00 PM
This come from thread about Duke and Dukess of Windsor ( but still about GD Dmitro P)

Quote from ERric I love the book Greg King did on the Duchess, it was reasonable and fair (unlike others who claim she was a German spy, a woman who learn sexual tricks in China or even worst a man !). However some of the stuff on the Romanovs sounds balmy...including a claim Serge might have sexual molested his nephew Dimitri...

Quote from Janet Ashton I have a friend who has studied Dmitri in depth for years - in fact, you may have seen him speak. He has heard this tale about Serge too, and not from Greg, who he doesn't know. It came from another Romanov historian; no idea where she heard it first; but I should add that Witte mentions rumours that Serge abused or took advantage of young cadets. My friend had a qualified child analyst consider the claim that Dmitri was abused, and received the opinion that his personality showed definite signs of trauma consistent with something of the kind (depression, moodiness and so on). The clincher - precocious sexual interest in other children - was absent, but I would not be to quick to rule this theory out and label it as crazy. I happen to know this author very well indeed and he is certainly not crazy.

Have you got more info about that and what is exactly Dmitri doing in a book about Wallis??

Greg wrote the Wallis book and I know he has a great deal of research, not all of which makes it into his books. He likely had this bit about Dmitri which he was able to use in the DOW book. That's my best guess on the latter part of your question.

As to speculation about Serge perhaps molesting Dmitri - this is all speculative, as is the idea that Serge may have been gay. Everything I've read about Serge says that he sincerely loved his niece and nephew - in fact he was responsible for saving Dmitri's life - so I tend to disbelieve that he was a child molester.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Teddy on September 29, 2009, 02:22:04 AM
Did Serge saved Dmitri's life? When? I can only recall the story when GD Dmitri was born and that everyone thought he had died but that his nurse saw that the little baby was alive.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on September 29, 2009, 05:02:47 AM
Did Serge saved Dmitri's life? When? I can only recall the story when GD Dmitri was born and that everyone thought he had died but that his nurse saw that the little baby was alive.

I think that was the moment GD Sergei saved Dmitri's life. Some sources say that GD Sergei glanced at the baby and understood he was alive. Also after that Sergei cared much himself about Dmitri and so saved his life indeed.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 09, 2009, 05:49:55 PM
Lisa, did you ever get a chance to verify the story in press about dmitri being wounded in battle?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 10, 2009, 12:28:36 AM
Lisa, did you ever get a chance to verify the story in press about dmitri being wounded in battle?

As a matter of fact, I'm still looking! This seems to happen too often to me when it comes to Dmitri. A few years ago, I could not find the citation about his diaries being kept at Harvard - which is where at least some of them are. So, it's entirely possible I am mistaken about the wounded in battle - but I am still looking.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: nena on October 10, 2009, 07:12:17 AM
From a Russian site:

Dmitri Pavlovich participated in the battles in East Prussia. Losses were horrendous. Russian officers considered it an honor to expose themselves by enemy bullets and not hide in the shelter during the bombardment. Their behavior was caused by military training in the country with a rigid class system: they were not equal companions of their soldiers, among them, the commanders and the rank and file had been laid a deep abyss, and they had to maintain self-respect. Their bahvalnoe disdain for death were acquitted in the past wars against Asian tribes and Turkish soldiers, armed with primitive weapons and poorly trained fire: while the Russian officers were proud to stand upright in a hail of bullets.

So probably he was wounded in the battle.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 11, 2009, 10:00:40 PM
well thank you Lisa for your efforts and research! have you ever read any of the Grand Duke's diaries? i know that most of them are in Russian and have never been translated or published
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 11, 2009, 10:29:24 PM
well thank you Lisa for your efforts and research! have you ever read any of the Grand Duke's diaries? i know that most of them are in Russian and have never been translated or published

I've only been told about excerpts. I believe his sons have some of the diaries while the rest are at Harvard.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 12, 2009, 05:21:49 AM
I read somewhere that Dimitri won the prize at the Nikolaievsky Cavalry School for the top rider of his year. If so, he must have been extremely good. If you read Vladimir Littauer's 'Russian Hussar', one of the things they did was the trick the Mounties display team do, which is to remove the saddle while cantering round the ring, and end up cantering bareback with the saddle over the right arm.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 12, 2009, 06:21:02 AM
Lisa

No disrespect intended to the child analyst, but I think we need to be cautious about assuming that because Dimitri had a tendency to depression and moodiness that he was necessarily sexually abused. Given that he never had a mother, and his father abandoned him, it would not be surprising if he were prone to depression and moodiness. Further, if Serge was homosexual as distinct from paedophile, then Dimitri, aged 13 at Serge's death, was rather young to be a target. Is there any indication as to the age of the 'young military cadets' your friend refers to? - if they were at the military schools as distinct from cadet schools they could be 18-20ish and so young men rather than boys (obviously, they could still have been taken advantage of, but it's not quite the same thing).
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 12, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
I read somewhere that Dimitri won the prize at the Nikolaievsky Cavalry School for the top rider of his year. If so, he must have been extremely good. If you read Vladimir Littauer's 'Russian Hussar', one of the things they did was the trick the Mounties display team do, which is to remove the saddle while cantering round the ring, and end up cantering bareback with the saddle over the right arm.

 he even competed at the Stockholm Olympics in 1912 :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Janet Ashton on October 12, 2009, 12:06:58 PM
Lisa

No disrespect intended to the child analyst, but I think we need to be cautious about assuming that because Dimitri had a tendency to depression and moodiness that he was necessarily sexually abused. Given that he never had a mother, and his father abandoned him, it would not be surprising if he were prone to depression and moodiness. Further, if Serge was homosexual as distinct from paedophile, then Dimitri, aged 13 at Serge's death, was rather young to be a target. Is there any indication as to the age of the 'young military cadets' your friend refers to? - if they were at the military schools as distinct from cadet schools they could be 18-20ish and so young men rather than boys (obviously, they could still have been taken advantage of, but it's not quite the same thing).

Hi Kalafrana
        No disrespect to you either, and don't take this wrong way, but please can you read the posts a bit more closely before replying to them? Several times in the "Alexandra" thread you misattributed opinions (e.g. Alixz's words to Pavlov) and here you are taking issue with Lisa Davidson for something I posted. Also, I am not sure that what I wrote about the "child analyst's" view of Dmitri particularly contradicts what you have said above, in that I wrote that she stated that the clinching evidence for abuse was absent. Additionally, the person who mentioned Serge and the cadets was Sergei Witte - and not "my friend". And, yes, the cadets were young boys - I'm well aware of the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia, as are both the friends I've discussed this with.

I should also clarify that my interest here was not in whether or not Dmitri was sexually abused per se - I was defending another friend against the charge that his writing this was "barmy". The point is that the theory is one held by several authors independently of one another.

Best wishes

Janet
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 12, 2009, 04:54:35 PM

i think it's of course fine to ponder whether sergei was gay or not, but i do not think it is respectful in the least to wonder whether he molested dmitri as there is no substantial evidence at all to back up such a claim other than sexual ambiguity which is by no means reason to venture into the 'sex offender' territory... on top of that consider that Ella stayed with Sergei for so long and was so devastated when he died...you think if he had molested her surrogate son she would have felt this way?
please correct me if there is any real evidence that sergei was a pedophile, but lots of people can be "moody" as you call it without having been sexually abused. Dmitri had a difficult life. His mother died giving birth to him, which i imagine would be very traumatic to have to cope with. His father abandoned him and his sister for a new wife. He was constantly ill with tuberculosis and a weak heart. These are plenty enough reason to cause sadness
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 13, 2009, 04:01:32 AM
Janet

I do need to be more careful about who I attribute views to.

As to Serge and Dimitri, I'm not disagreeing with you substantively, just saying that we should be careful  not to jump to conclusions - possibly I missed your emphasis (or lack of it). I don't think the suggestion that Serge molested Dimitri is 'barmy' but there were plenty of other reasons for Dimitri to be depressed and moody in later life, and, as you rightly said, the child analyst makes clear that the 'clincher' is absent. Thank you for clarifying the point about the young military cadets - how reliable a commentator generally is Witte (I don't know)?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 13, 2009, 07:57:10 PM
Janet

I do need to be more careful about who I attribute views to.

As to Serge and Dimitri, I'm not disagreeing with you substantively, just saying that we should be careful  not to jump to conclusions - possibly I missed your emphasis (or lack of it). I don't think the suggestion that Serge molested Dimitri is 'barmy' but there were plenty of other reasons for Dimitri to be depressed and moody in later life, and, as you rightly said, the child analyst makes clear that the 'clincher' is absent. Thank you for clarifying the point about the young military cadets - how reliable a commentator generally is Witte (I don't know)?

Ann


Please don't take offense, but as Janet pointed out, you did mis-attribute a post to me that I did not make, so like everyone else here, you do have to be careful about who you attribute views to.

I wrote a somewhat thoughtful biographical sketch on the Grand Duke that has been a part of the Alexander Palace Time Machine for over a decade now, and I stand by it. I don't think that he was molested, but I do think he was parented  erratically. How many children experience the death of their mother, desertion by their father, quasi-adoption by two sets of aunts and uncles, and the murder by Revolutionaries of both sets of surrogate parents? I think Dmitri could have kept the entire psychiatric profession in business had he sought therapy, don't you?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 14, 2009, 03:03:45 AM
Lisa

I have read your biographical sketch (though not all that recently) and think it is a very fair summing-up. I agree with you that Dimitri had quite enough to be depressed and moody about without being molested by his uncle or anybody else (and it's hardly surprising that Marie Pavlovna was difficult).

There is a tendency to demonise Serge (I'm speaking in general terms here), so I think there is a need to be careful not to lea
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 14, 2009, 03:14:30 AM
Apologies - I hit the wrong key just now and accidentally posted my message before completing it.

What I was going on to say was that there is a tendency to demonise Serge, so that we need to be careful not to jump to conclusions on the basis of ambiguous evidence. Just to take one example, Ella stayed with Serge and was apparently devastated when he was killed, but there are plenty of wives who refuse to believe their children when they claim to have been molested, claim in court that they had no idea what their husbands were doing and stay with them even after they are convicted of molesting their children (i.e. the wives' children), so it could mean anything or nothing.

Ultimately, we don't know, and are unlikely ever to know, and I am inclined to think (nothing stronger than that) that it is unlikely that Serge, for all his faults, did molest Dimitri.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Janet Ashton on October 17, 2009, 05:22:14 AM
Janet

I do need to be more careful about who I attribute views to.

As to Serge and Dimitri, I'm not disagreeing with you substantively, just saying that we should be careful  not to jump to conclusions - possibly I missed your emphasis (or lack of it). I don't think the suggestion that Serge molested Dimitri is 'barmy' but there were plenty of other reasons for Dimitri to be depressed and moody in later life, and, as you rightly said, the child analyst makes clear that the 'clincher' is absent. Thank you for clarifying the point about the young military cadets - how reliable a commentator generally is Witte (I don't know)?

Ann


Hi Ann
    Witte's memoirs are as self-serving as those of most other politicians, and inaccurate where he had inaccurate information, but he didn't actively lie of make things up - and Serge was an incidental character in his book. Actually, that's definitely not where the evidence about Dmitri comes from; I brought it up as a piece of incidental corroboration for an interest in young boys.

As to Serge being demonised: his brother-in-law Ernst Ludwig blamed the Kaiser for this; modern authors have blamed Alexander Mikhailovich; but there is a substantial set of comments that come from completely different (contemporary sources) which show that he was not well-liked - to put it mildly. Witte is one, of course; but the pithiest and to my mind the funniest I have read is that of one Moscow writer (I don;t have the article with me as I'm on a train, so alas can't find the name!) who wrote "The other three brothers [Alexander, Vladimir and Alexei, I assume] despised the country; Sergei Alexandrovich was despised by it...." A lot of revisionism has gone on lately in his case, but I for one don't waste many tears for this rigid, bigoted and cruel man, one of the most negative influences on Nicholas's early reign. It is possible to be very religious and yet very unpleasant, especially considering some of the things the right wing Russian Church has been involved in over time. Of course, this particular unpleasantness is incidental to whether or not he abused children!

As you say, Ella's devotion to him isn't really evidence of anything.

J
Title: Information on the Grand Duke Dmitri
Post by: DuchessElla on October 17, 2009, 07:55:06 PM
I've found it rather hard to find much information on Dmitri in WW1 and his time in the horse guard or for that matter much of him in general.

I've read the Alexander biography and the Wikipedia on him, but I need more.

I'm doing a research paper and I hate skipping around things because I don't know about them.

I would appreciate a posting of some information or a reference to a site or book where I could read more about this young fellow.

Much thanks

Title: Re: Information on the Grand Duke Dmitri
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 17, 2009, 08:06:26 PM
I've found it rather hard to find much information on Dmitri in WW1 and his time in the horse guard or for that matter much of him in general.

I've read the Alexander biography and the Wikipedia on him, but I need more.

I'm doing a research paper and I hate skipping around things because I don't know about them.

I would appreciate a posting of some information or a reference to a site or book where I could read more about this young fellow.

Much thanks




here is an article by william lee about his younger years. the first page is up to 1909, then click at the bottom of the page to go to the next.:

http://www.directarticle.org/Young_Dmitry.html

this is a pdf file written by the same author on his death, based on his diaries:

www.directarticle.org/Dimitry.pdf


i also wish there were more information on his time in war :(

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: DuchessElla on October 18, 2009, 11:30:47 AM
Thank you for the information, this is what I was looking for :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 19, 2009, 04:30:46 AM
Very interesting articles about Dimitri - I'm looking forward to the next instalment!

Janet
Serge had his good points but I don't find him at all a sympathetic figure (I find it surprising that he and Ella seemed to enjoy a happy domestic existence with Paul and his first wife, given some of his other characteristics). I'm simply saying that we should not leap on the villainy bandwagon and accuse him of all the worst crimes possible on the basis of evidence which is at best highly equivocal (I know you're not doing that).

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Vecchiolarry on October 19, 2009, 10:38:06 AM
Hi Janet;  Hi Ann,

Gee Janet, I didn't know you were so down on Serge.  As for me, I don't know what to think!!!
I have just received my "Serge" book from Arturo and will be reading it this weekend.  I hope it clarifies some things about him.

I'm of an open mind about the whole Serge/Ella thing and in the end, it's really their business but it does fascinate us all - doesn't it!!!

Larry
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 21, 2009, 10:37:08 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/watermark/hpqscan0029-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 21, 2009, 10:55:00 AM
Ashanti01

Am I right in thinking that this is Horse Guards uniform that Dimitri is wearing here? I am slightly confused because he was a boy of 12 in 1903 and was not commissioned in the Horse Guards until 1911 - was he Colonel-in-Chief or 'on the books of' the Horse Guards earlier than that?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Douglas on October 21, 2009, 11:18:06 AM
ashanti:

 Concerning the RED watermark on the photo below.  What is the reason for the mark?  Do you own that photo? Thank you in advance for an explanation.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/watermark/hpqscan0029-1.jpg (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/watermark/hpqscan0029-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 21, 2009, 11:30:09 AM
Hi Douglas,

The reason for the watermark is just a measure to prevent it from showing up on ebay. If you haven't noticed there several images, including colored pictures from members of the forum which have ended up on ebay. I don't own the image, I just scanned it from Ferrand's book.

Kalafrana,

In the book it says "..en uniforme du Regiment des Gardes a Cheval qui lui fut offert par les officeiers du regiment " in uniform of the Regiment of the Guards Cheval has which was offered to him by the officeiers of the regiment"..my french is poor so someone else may want to translate.

There's another photo of him in the uniform, I'll scan it and post it later.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 21, 2009, 02:42:49 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/watermark/hpqscan0001-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 21, 2009, 09:11:14 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg)
1897 (From Le Grand Duc Paul Alexandrovtich de Russie, J. Ferrand ** GREAT BOOK***)

Is the book a photoalbum?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 22, 2009, 02:56:41 AM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg)
1897 (From Le Grand Duc Paul Alexandrovtich de Russie, J. Ferrand ** GREAT BOOK***)

Is the book a photoalbum?

It's a basically a photo album about Grand Duke Paul and his descendants. Has tons of rare photographs and I think it's one of the best photo albums I've seen so far because there is so much rare material versus same old stuff with some new. Like so many of Mr. Ferrand's books, this is really a great collectors piece to have in your collection.


Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 22, 2009, 03:23:20 AM
Ashanti01

Many thanks for the explanation.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 22, 2009, 07:44:00 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg)
1897 (From Le Grand Duc Paul Alexandrovtich de Russie, J. Ferrand ** GREAT BOOK***)

Is the book a photoalbum?

It's a basically a photo album about Grand Duke Paul and his descendants. Has tons of rare photographs and I think it's one of the best photo albums I've seen so far because there is so much rare material versus same old stuff with some new. Like so many of Mr. Ferrand's books, this is really a great collectors piece to have in your collection.






where is this photo album sold? i looked on ERHJ and couldn't find it...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Douglas on October 22, 2009, 08:29:03 PM
Hi Ashanti:

Thank you for your reply.

So what if it does end up on Ebay. Stupid people acting illegally will sell and buy anything on Ebay.   There are billions of images on the internet....should all images have watermarks?  That would  make this site look like a junkyard of images.

There is always some sucker that will buy stolen copies of something on Ebay.  Should a photo of President Lincoln have a watermark across his face?

People that try and protect their 'colored' images by a watermark are really only defacing this site.  If a stolen picture turns up on Ebay , the owner should contact Ebay.

All of these ugly watermarks make this site look dreadful.




Hi Douglas,

The reason for the watermark is just a measure to prevent it from showing up on ebay. If you haven't noticed there several images, including colored pictures from members of the forum which have ended up on ebay. I don't own the image, I just scanned it from Ferrand's book.

Kalafrana,

In the book it says "..en uniforme du Regiment des Gardes a Cheval qui lui fut offert par les officeiers du regiment " in uniform of the Regiment of the Guards Cheval has which was offered to him by the officeiers of the regiment"..my french is poor so someone else may want to translate.

There's another photo of him in the uniform, I'll scan it and post it later.


Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 22, 2009, 08:50:43 PM
People that try and protect their 'colored' images by a watermark are really only defacing this site.  If a stolen picture turns up on Ebay , the owner should contact Ebay.

 
 

It isnt that easy. Its harsh to see people selling colored pictures from here  (have you ever colorized a picture? do you know how many time it takes to do it?  Hm?) and gaining THOUSAND of dollars per print for something we do just for fun. I hate hate watermarks but i want to avoid that inescrupulous people make profit of something i do just for fun and relax,

If you re so concerned about watermark in general, you should check This (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=7493.0) topic where administrators support and advice us to put marks on pics.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 22, 2009, 08:57:46 PM
Hi Douglas,

When someone spends hours coloring or scanning a picture to share with others for educational purposes or just for fun, it does irk people to their work appear on other sites or worse up for sale for someone else to profit from their hard work.

You think I enjoy watermarking every image? No but I would rather mark it and make it known it was meant for use at this forum.  I understand where you are coming from but ask that you also understand why photos are watermarked. Also, if people PM asking me for the image without the mark, I usually forward them the image because I know them from this forum and trust them. Sadly, not everyone who visits this forum does it for the right reasons.



Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Douglas on October 22, 2009, 10:32:19 PM
I'll say it again.  If someone is selling your work......NOTIFY Ebay.  They have a department that will delete accounts that sell unauthorized property.  All very simple.  I do understand that you might want to watermark a photo you colored....that's probably fair.

And yes, I have colored photos and yes it does take a lot of time and work.

I appreciate that you will send someone a photo that you have watermarked.  That may be one solution for colored photos.

 But if you scanned a photo from a book,... why watermark it?  You took it from some other source.  I don't see the point of watermarking a photo you take from a book.   That's not your photo in the first place.  A bright red mark across a face is a bit over the top.  The AP Admin. suggests watermarking with more transparent or subtle words, appropriately placed on the photo.  

The thousands of copied photos from books really enhance this site tremendously.  They make this site a wonderful place to visit history.




Hi Douglas,

When someone spends hours coloring or scanning a picture to share with others for educational purposes or just for fun, it does irk people to their work appear on other sites or worse up for sale for someone else to profit from their hard work.

You think I enjoy watermarking every image? No but I would rather mark it and make it known it was meant for use at this forum.  I understand where you are coming from but ask that you also understand why photos are watermarked. Also, if people PM asking me for the image without the mark, I usually forward them the image because I know them from this forum and trust them. Sadly, not everyone who visits this forum does it for the right reasons.




Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 23, 2009, 01:32:16 AM

There are several people on this forum who scan from book's and watermark the images for the reason's already explained. You may not agree with this method but its a method I and others on this forum have stuck to. Most of the images which are watermarked by members on this forum are photos from hard to find books one does not find at a local bookstore. It is time consuming to scan images, load them, and save them to online accounts. I use to watermark images with a transparent mark however I no longer have the program from which I use to edit the photos. 

I'm sorry you don't agree with the watermarking but I will continue to watermark images and whenever someone wants the image without the watermark, I'll be glad to forward it to fellow members of the forum. I won't continue this discussion on this topic because this is suppose to be about Grand Duke Dmitry and not a watermarking debate.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 23, 2009, 05:01:10 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0028-1.jpg)
1897 (From Le Grand Duc Paul Alexandrovtich de Russie, J. Ferrand ** GREAT BOOK***)

Is the book a photoalbum?

It's a basically a photo album about Grand Duke Paul and his descendants. Has tons of rare photographs and I think it's one of the best photo albums I've seen so far because there is so much rare material versus same old stuff with some new. Like so many of Mr. Ferrand's books, this is really a great collectors piece to have in your collection.



cool! I have been looking for it since I saw that photo of Dmitri and cant find it for a good price. :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 23, 2009, 07:12:37 PM
The book has several pictures of Dmitri. Several of which I had never seen anywhere before. Ferrand's book have basically become a collectors item, hence the high price. I feel your pain, I had the same problem for years whenever a Ferrand book would appear, it would always be priced in the hundreds  :'(

There is also a very lovely picture of Audrey I don't believe has been posted here.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/hpqscan0004-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 23, 2009, 07:50:50 PM
The book has several pictures of Dmitri. Several of which I had never seen anywhere before. Ferrand's book have basically become a collectors item, hence the high price. I feel your pain, I had the same problem for years whenever a Ferrand book would appear, it would always be priced in the hundreds  :'(

There is also a very lovely picture of Audrey I don't believe has been posted here.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/hpqscan0004-1.jpg (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/hpqscan0004-1.jpg)

any chance you could post those pictures here, ashanti?? :D
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 23, 2009, 09:54:43 PM
Probably will end up posting them. I just have other things to load and take care of first. I just received Noblesse Russe Portraits 1-3 by J. Ferrand so I'm going to be busy looking over them and organizing information/photos.

 

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 23, 2009, 10:49:02 PM
Ashanti!!  can i ask you a big favour? If that book has some pictures of Sergei Mikhailovich and  GD Georgiy Alexandrovich, can you send them to me via PM to colorize them? Thanks in advanced and take your time! *0*
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on October 23, 2009, 10:58:25 PM
I'll say it again.  If someone is selling your work......NOTIFY Ebay.  They have a department that will delete accounts that sell unauthorized property.  All very simple.  I do understand that you might want to watermark a photo you colored....that's probably fair.

And yes, I have colored photos and yes it does take a lot of time and work.

I appreciate that you will send someone a photo that you have watermarked.  That may be one solution for colored photos.

 But if you scanned a photo from a book,... why watermark it?  You took it from some other source.  I don't see the point of watermarking a photo you take from a book.   That's not your photo in the first place.  A bright red mark across a face is a bit over the top.  The AP Admin. suggests watermarking with more transparent or subtle words, appropriately placed on the photo.  

The thousands of copied photos from books really enhance this site tremendously.  They make this site a wonderful place to visit history.




Hi Douglas,

When someone spends hours coloring or scanning a picture to share with others for educational purposes or just for fun, it does irk people to their work appear on other sites or worse up for sale for someone else to profit from their hard work.

You think I enjoy watermarking every image? No but I would rather mark it and make it known it was meant for use at this forum.  I understand where you are coming from but ask that you also understand why photos are watermarked. Also, if people PM asking me for the image without the mark, I usually forward them the image because I know them from this forum and trust them. Sadly, not everyone who visits this forum does it for the right reasons.





Except that Ebay WON'T do anything. I contacted them about material of my own that I had the copyright for and had reproduced here that someone then took and sold over and over for a good deal of money. Ebay was completely unresponsive. So, okay, I'm basically a nobody. However, a well-known author of royal books also had material that was reproduced from her books--a violation of copyright--and they blew HER off too. Multiple times. I used to be much more cavalier about posting my own photos here--I will now almost always put a mark on it though I try to keep in unobtrusive enough to be enjoyed but enough to keep it sold--and about scanning copyrighted books because I really didn't understand it all. I now don't do it. I spend a LOT of money buying images from a variety of sources, hopefully to write my own books someday, and I will not put them unprotected on this or any other site anymore. I will, like others, send unmarked images to those posters I know.

As for the Ferrand books, they are wonderful. Perhaps interlibrary loan might be a route for those who can't afford/find them? My only complaint with the GD Paul one that I own is the paper quality. It lends a rather smeary quality to the photos. They seem less distinct and vibrant than in other books.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on October 23, 2009, 11:05:27 PM
Ashanti!!  can i ask you a big favour? If that book has some pictures of Sergei Mikhailovich and  GD Georgiy Alexandrovich, can you send them to me via PM to colorize them? Thanks in advanced and take your time! *0*

I'll be sure to forward you anything I may find. :)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 23, 2009, 11:11:44 PM
Ashanti--- of course, and i appreciate any photo you choose to share with us, thanks for the many wonderful ones you've posted already
Title: Re: Information on the Grand Duke Dmitri
Post by: rachel5a on November 23, 2009, 08:20:47 AM





is  william lee a person who is writing a book about grand duke dmirti p ?? i know there is a person who is doing it but i dont know who exactly?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on November 23, 2009, 11:57:32 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/hpqscan0025-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on December 30, 2009, 03:47:00 AM
GD Dmitri in love with american girl

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A02E6DB153FE233A2575AC2A9659C946596D6CF
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on December 30, 2009, 12:15:34 PM
I've read that article before. would take that with a grain of salt. Its a bit reminisce of tabloid magazines today and they dont have any sources
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on December 31, 2009, 04:28:42 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/dmtryaudry-1.jpg)
GD Dmitri & Audrey 1925
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on December 31, 2009, 05:14:02 PM
omg where did you find this photo ashanti? it is so rare
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 31, 2009, 06:16:42 PM
William Lee is indeed interested in writing a biography of the Grand Duke, as am I.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on December 31, 2009, 07:24:37 PM
That is so fascinating Lisa I can't wait for it to be completed! It is high time someone wrote a biography of the Grand Duke :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sharon Chicago on January 02, 2010, 01:50:00 PM
I just finished reading A Princess in Exile Marie Grand Duchess... It was interesting ... Marie was the one that wanted to fix up Dmitry with Audrey. I am sorry to see on these posts that their marriage lasted only 10 years.  It sounded like Dmitry fought off depression from time to time?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on January 03, 2010, 12:22:18 AM
omg where did you find this photo ashanti? it is so rare

photo is from Ferrand's book on Grand Duke Paul.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0087-1.jpg)
Dmitri 1915
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Belochka on January 03, 2010, 05:37:02 AM

photo is from Ferrand's book on Grand Duke Paul.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0087-1.jpg)

Oh dear! Ferrand's photo appears to have been published incorrectly.

Check the one I have provided below and see why:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/sadbear/ada62091.jpg)

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on January 03, 2010, 05:49:05 AM
what do u mean? the year?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on January 07, 2010, 06:50:14 PM
William Lee is indeed interested in writing a biography of the Grand Duke, as am I.

Lisa - if you need a research grunt you know who to call!

warmly,
dca
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on January 07, 2010, 07:00:24 PM
what do u mean? the year?

The medal on his chest is on the wrong side. Nice eye Margarita I had not even noticed the error until you pointed it out.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on January 14, 2010, 10:16:37 AM
William Lee is indeed interested in writing a biography of the Grand Duke, as am I.

Lisa - if you need a research grunt you know who to call!

warmly,
dca

Right now, Will and I are talking about a collaboration on a straightforward biography of Grand Duke Dmitri. We will doubtless have to pester friends for help, and it's good to know you're on board, Dom!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2010, 04:54:15 PM
That sounds awesome, Lisa! I admit, Dmitri isn't one of my favorites but I'd still line up to read the biography as his life was an interesting one. I'll volunteer my services as well. : ) I own some images of him, though I'm sure you have contacts with many as well.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on January 16, 2010, 04:15:05 AM
Put me down for a copy of the biography as well.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on January 19, 2010, 03:46:35 PM
Yeah! I'll let you know how things go and our timeline once we have that set. Will Lee and I both admire Dmitri Pavolovich, so it should be interesting!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on January 20, 2010, 02:11:58 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/gddimitri.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on January 20, 2010, 10:02:38 PM

GD Dimitri and Natalia Brassova, wife of GD Michael, London after revolution:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2845144660102753164axNkjp


GD Dmitri and GD Maria, 1909:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2500117740102753164WxPGxj


 (apology these are links and not immediate picture. they are still worth looking at, and lovely! )
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on January 21, 2010, 08:33:28 AM
Interesting pictures. The captain on the second one says 1904, not 1909 however (I'd already decided that Dimitri looked rather young for 18!)

As a general point, Russian boys seem to have stayed in sailor suits longer than boys elsewhere. Dimitri must have been 12-13 when this was taken. There is one of Mikhail Alexandrovich with Alexander III shortly before Alexander's death. Mikhail is in a sailor suit aged 15. John van der Kiste's book on Xenia includes a photograph of her eldest son Andrei in a sailor suit in summer 1914 when he was 17. I think British boys moved on to Eton suits and the like by about 10.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on January 21, 2010, 11:30:52 AM
sorry for the typo, i know its 1904  :-[
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on February 11, 2010, 08:47:54 PM
anybody have pictures of Paul where he is not a baby? I have only ever seen baby photos, like for his birth
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on February 11, 2010, 08:49:00 PM
You want childhood or adult? If so how young man or old man?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on February 11, 2010, 09:11:29 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/hpqscan0097-1.jpg)(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/hpqscan0097-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sharon Chicago on February 12, 2010, 10:32:25 AM
Paul looks a lot like Dimitri when Dimitri was his age..... What a handsome Lad Paul is :o)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 12, 2010, 11:33:41 AM
Paul looks a lot like Dimitri when Dimitri was his age..... What a handsome Lad Paul is :o)

Paul's granddaughter recently told me that her grandfather looked just like Dmitri. So, we can see in Paul's pictures when he's older what DP would have looked like at some older ages that he never achieved - and if he had been healthy.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on February 12, 2010, 07:19:39 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/hpqscan0098-1.jpg)
Paul and his cousin Michael Feodorovitch in 1931

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/hpqscan0098-2.jpg)
Paul and Michael in 1992
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 13, 2010, 05:21:43 AM
Paul was certainly good looking and the resemblance to Dimitri is obvious.

A matter of taste I know, but I far prefer 'young lad' pictures to baby pictures! In the one on the left Paul looks dressed to play cricket.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on February 14, 2010, 06:47:05 AM
Ashanti have you got one with Paul D. his wife and kids? Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on February 14, 2010, 10:01:08 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/hpqscan0099-1.jpg)
Paul with his wife Angelica 1992

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/hpqscan0103-1.jpg)
Paul and Angelica with their grandchildren, L to R: Makena, Alexandra, Sophia, Audrey, Lela, Heather, Victoria, and Adaire
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 14, 2010, 10:28:02 AM
No grandsons? Lots of grandaughters!

Are their any photos of Paul as a young adult?

Paul seems to have turned out very well, especially when you consider that his early life was somewhat disrupted.


Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: HSHPrinceMichael on February 14, 2010, 09:51:08 PM
Does anyone know the name of the Chateau, near to Paris, that Audrey gave to Dimitri after they get divorced?

Beaumesnil. Here's a link for more information    http://www.chateaux-france.com/beaumesnil/
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sharon Chicago on February 15, 2010, 07:18:20 AM
Ashanti01 .... Thank you so much for the recent family photo's .... It makes me feel good that the blood line continues on ...:o) I wish I lived next door to them so I could ring their door bell and borrow a cup of sugar and then sit down for hours on end and look at their photo albums and hear first hand stories of days gone by...Blessings to them :o)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 16, 2010, 11:23:42 AM
Ashanti01 .... Thank you so much for the recent family photo's .... It makes me feel good that the blood line continues on ...:o) I wish I lived next door to them so I could ring their door bell and borrow a cup of sugar and then sit down for hours on end and look at their photo albums and hear first hand stories of days gone by...Blessings to them :o)

The most that Paul's children and grandchildren were able to hear about was his memories of his parents. The Ilyinsky family members are all private citizens and while they are undoubtedly proud of their Imperial Russian heritage, I doubt they sit around talking of the olden days! Michael Ilyinsky, Paul's son, has now become the family historian, by the way.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sharon Chicago on February 16, 2010, 04:01:05 PM
tongue in cheek "sit around talk about the old days"...... I agree they probably don't do that but at one time the history was passed on to each generation born so glad
it is :o)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on February 16, 2010, 05:16:59 PM
thank you so much for photos ashanti!!! i was hoping for any age between baby and grandpere, as i have never seen any before, so they are all lovely. if you have more, or where did you find them, would you please send me unmarked versions if it isn't too much trouble?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: HSHPrinceMichael on February 17, 2010, 01:43:57 PM
tongue in cheek "sit around talk about the old days"...... I agree they probably don't do that but at one time the history was passed on to each generation born so glad
it is :o)

I can not speak for my brother Dmitri but sadly there was no formal "passing down" of the family history. What I know I have learned from reading, talking to cousins and others, my grandfather's journals, my great aunt's books and visiting Russia. It has been like assembling a giant living puzzle. Sometimes progress comes quickly, sometimes slowly. It's always exciting to find an unexpected missing piece.

Personally I'm more interested in Russia today and her future.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on February 17, 2010, 09:50:47 PM
Welcome, Michael!

Please note, Forum Members, that this is not simply an ordinary person who decided to use a royal name. Michael is the real deal, so please remember our Forum rules, and behave accordingly. (and I have confidence you will).
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Margot on February 17, 2010, 11:42:35 PM
I have just been having a bit of what was a very pleasant and self-indulgent rootle! I was enchanted to discover that Dimitri P competed against Karen Baroness von Blixen Finecke's brother-in-law Hans at the 1912 Olympics as members of their respective national teams! This is a wonderful little example of six degrees of separation! It ties in quite nicely with the Blixen Finecke thread on the Danish threads too! Truly fascinating! I do love it when avenues open to create new ones that shoot off in another direction!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 18, 2010, 03:20:40 AM
Prince Friedrich Karl of Prussia (nephew of the Duchess of Connaught) was the bronze medallist in the show jumping in the 1912 Olympics, in which Dimitri finished seventh. At risk of going off topic, Friedrich Karl, who was only 19 at the time, was a very athletic young man, who competed in the Modern Pentathlon in Germany and played tennis at Wimbledon. Unfortunately he died of wounds in WW1.

I wonder how well he and Dimitri knew one another.

Regards

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sharon Chicago on February 18, 2010, 06:58:27 AM
Prince Michael, Thank you for your update/response ... I was taken back to see that you had made a  comment to my posting. I have to say it put a big smile on my face and joy in my heart.  I will hopefully go to Russia in September, my first trip.  I have been to Poland twice and have found distant cousins there on the internet doing my family genealogy.  The Russian history is amazing and I do enjoy learning more about it.  Blessings to you and yours, Sharon
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on February 22, 2010, 10:51:57 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/youngdmitriunf-1.jpg)
Grand Duke Dmitri
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 24, 2010, 03:51:19 AM
Amazing one Ashanti! May I please have it (and the ones of Pavel Ilyinsky) unmarked?

I found this picture labelled as Pavel Ilynski, but I can´t confirm it.....

(http://nd03.blog.cz/476/391/556722d1ee_62156814_u.jpg)

And Grand Duke Pavel with his children (this particular pose for new for me)
(http://nd03.blog.cz/798/716/7a84c1b3aa_62156849_u.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 24, 2010, 05:33:50 AM
I'm busy trying to work out which uniform Paul Ilynsky is wearing in that photograph. I understand he went to Sandhurst and later served in the US Marines. It looks more like American uniform to me - looks like a globe on the collar dogs.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on April 17, 2010, 02:41:39 PM
I had a quick chat with Michael Illiyinsky yesterday.  He told me he is working as a  consultant on an exhibit about his grandfather Grand Duke Dimitry.  He says his main interest in Russia is on the Russia of today and the future.  He told me that when his graqndfather came to the US, he had no surname and adopted Illiyinsky.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: royallover on April 24, 2010, 10:58:35 AM


  Living and dying in Davos -  Dmitri Romanov at Sanatorium Schatzalp, 1939-42.

  " The grand duke’s funeral was a lonely one. His obituary in the Davos Courier listed him only as
“Dmitry Romanov, privatier,” and a handful of mourners followed his casket to the Waldfriedhof,
where he was buried beneath a plain wooden cross. Sixteen years later, in 1958, his remains were
exhumed, cremated, and moved to the Island of Mainau, a horticultural paradise owned by Grand
Duchess Maria’s only child. She herself had only recently died there, her last wish being to rest
beside her brother. And so they remain, united to this day. It was in Davos, however, that Dmitry
fought the battle for his life, succumbing on the very eve of a medical breakthrough -- the advent
powerful antibiotics. Nor was he the only one who perished thusly, a victim, at the last, of death’s
irony. "

Full article :

http://www.direcarticle/dmitry.pdf


Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: royallover on April 24, 2010, 11:08:25 AM

Sorry,

http://www.directarticle.org/Dimitry.pdf
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: royallover on April 24, 2010, 11:15:14 AM
  Sorry again,

http://www.directarticle.org/Dimitry.pdf
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on April 24, 2010, 01:47:13 PM
Michael seldom talks about his grandfather but he appreciates who he was and what he accompliished.  Paul, his son grew up very down to earth and grounded.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mark_Chicago on April 24, 2010, 04:44:33 PM
It's great to hear that there will be an exhibition on Grand Duke Dimitri--Can you tell us where?
Thanks
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Constantinople on April 24, 2010, 05:09:50 PM
I will try to find now
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on June 08, 2010, 10:51:36 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/dmitry1939london.jpg)

This is definitely NOT Dmitri. The two men in this photograph are Vladimir, the son of Mathilde Kschessenka, and Feorodr Alexandrovich, son of Alexander Mikhailovich.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on June 08, 2010, 10:58:07 PM
That is DEFINITELY Dmitry. By the way son of Mathilde hadn't such "sacks" under his eyes,but Dmitriy had. As well as his sister Marie in her later years.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Douglas on June 09, 2010, 12:21:37 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/dmitry1939london.jpg)

This is definitely NOT Dmitri. The two men in this photograph are Vladimir, the son of Mathilde Kschessenka, and Feorodr Alexandrovich, son of Alexander Mikhailovich.

According to Wikipedia the man on the right is Prince Dmitri Alexandrovich of Russia (15 August 1901 – 7 July 1980) was a son of Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich of Russia and Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna of Russia. He was a nephew of Tsar Nicholas II of Russia. Wiki uses this same photo.

The man on left is Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich of Russia  (18 September 1891 – 5 March 1941)  
Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich was born at Ilinskoe near Moscow, the second child and only son of Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich and a grandson of Alexander II of Russia.   Dmitri Pavlovich's mother, Alexandra Georgievna of Greece was a daughter of George I of Greece and his Queen consort Olga Konstantinovna of Russia. As such, he was also a first cousin of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. Dmitri and his sister Maria were mostly raised by their uncle and aunt, Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovich of Russia and his wife, Elizabeth, the elder sister of Tsarina Alexandra.

Someone has stated that the man on the right is Prince Feodor Alexandrovich of Russia (23 December 1898 – 30 November 1968) was a son of Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich of Russia and Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna of Russia. He was a nephew of Tsar Nicholas II of Russia

This is what I found concerning the identity of these two men.  Have we got it or not?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on June 09, 2010, 01:39:14 AM
GD Dmitri P died in 1942 not 1941
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on June 16, 2010, 10:31:22 AM
Well my mistake if I am wrong, I don't think it looks very characteristic of him.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: susana on June 20, 2010, 12:01:14 AM
I have two contributions to make:

RE the photo above of the two men the gentleman on the left is Vladimir the son of Kchessinska--refer to her book and note that both she and her son had pronounced circles under their eyes; in addition he had a large nose.

RE the gentleman on the right I'm satisfied that he's a Michaelovichi.

Secondly regarding comments about how alone Dmitri Pavlovich was in his lifetime--spend a moment remembering that in the rush to save his mother the infant was placed aside in blankets. Assumed to be dead or dying this infant drew his first breath alone and in moving his limbs caught the eye of a nurse. That's a terrible loneliness to begin your life and the
loss after loss of family and friends to death and marriage must have scarred him. This a psychological viewpoint although the tuberculosis was hereditary and rampant in royalty.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 20, 2010, 08:23:08 AM
Not Mikhailovichi but Alexandrovich ;-)

It could be ova since he had a bit of resemblance to Dmitri

Here a picture of Dmitri in the same period, posted in this very same topic by Alexandre

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Dimitri%20and%20maria/escanear0036lz21.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: susana on June 20, 2010, 08:37:57 PM
Wonderful photo--thanks.

Now as to the Michailovichi vs the Alexandrovichi I understood the whole slew of descendents from Michael Pavlovich, Viceroy of the Caucasus were known by the patronymic Michailovichi. Nicholas, Sergei, Anastasia, Alexander, etc. I believe Prince Nicholas Romanovich is still considered a Nicholaivich.

Some clarification here would be nice. Have I confused myself?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 21, 2010, 08:06:21 AM
Well. since Dmitri is son of Alexander Mikhailovich he s an Alexandrovich but from the Mikhailovichi branch. ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on August 24, 2010, 08:12:55 AM
Young GD Dimitri Pavlovich
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7820/dimitri040.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on August 26, 2010, 07:55:11 PM
Dimitri Pavlovich in British uniform (I must say he looked much much better in Russian:-))
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3845/dmitriunatalii.jpg)

 It's a quite clear to me that this picture was taken in the same day and place as this one, which I posted on APF long time ago (and saw here repeated, of course).

http://yfrog.com/mwnatdimitrj   (Dmitri with Natasha Brasova , England 1919).

Even the dog is the same.;-)


Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on August 27, 2010, 03:28:42 AM
'Dimitri Pavlovich in British uniform (I must say he looked much much better in Russian:-))'

It doesn't help that the uniform isn't a very good fit. The trousers are too short and the tunic is baggy. Could it have been made for someone else or simply done in a hurry?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on August 27, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0003-4.jpg)
GD Dmitri next to Nicholas II
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: scarlett_riviera on September 09, 2010, 04:18:20 AM
I just read the article about his last days and it was all so very heartbreaking. He was really struggling to survive. :( hopefully a detailed book on his life will come out soon. ill be the first in line to get it!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 09, 2010, 08:10:31 PM
William Lee and I are working on a biography of Dmitri Pavlovich, but it will be at least a year until it is ready to be published.

Dmitri is not the son of Alexander Mikhailovich, he's the son of Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich, which makes him the last surviving legitimate grandson of Emperor Alexander II and his family is all that remains, apart from the Yuriveski's of the male Alexandrovichi branch.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: scarlett_riviera on September 09, 2010, 08:15:43 PM
William Lee and I are working on a biography of Dmitri Pavlovich, but it will be at least a year until it is ready to be published.

Dmitri is not the son of Alexander Mikhailovich, he's the son of Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich, which makes him the last surviving legitimate grandson of Emperor Alexander II and his family is all that remains, apart from the Yuriveski's of the male Alexandrovichi branch.

Omg, awesome! I'm looking forward to it! :D
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 09, 2010, 08:24:13 PM
William Lee and I are working on a biography of Dmitri Pavlovich, but it will be at least a year until it is ready to be published.

Dmitri is not the son of Alexander Mikhailovich, he's the son of Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich, which makes him the last surviving legitimate grandson of Emperor Alexander II and his family is all that remains, apart from the Yuriveski's of the male Alexandrovichi branch.

Omg, awesome! I'm looking forward to it! :D

Arturo Beeche of the European Royal History Journal and Kensington Books is publishing it. Also, Will and I are giving a talk on Dmitri's 1915 diaries at the ERHJ conference the weekend of October 16/17 2010 in Emeryville, CA. It would be great to see you there if you can make it!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Teddy on September 10, 2010, 12:14:12 AM
Maybe its better that Arturo finish first the book of Ilana Miller! By the way Van Hoogstraten in the Hague is in search for him, because they have many orders for his bookshop.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on September 12, 2010, 10:32:22 AM
Audrey with her son Paul :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/audreyemerypaul.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on September 12, 2010, 01:52:12 PM
What a shame GD Dmitri is not with them on this picture :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: scarlett_riviera on September 12, 2010, 08:20:17 PM
That's such a lovely picture of audrey and paul! it's pretty sad too cause i read in an article, i think written by william lee, that he felt miserable over losing his wife, his home and then his son. :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: scarlett_riviera on September 12, 2010, 08:24:59 PM
William Lee and I are working on a biography of Dmitri Pavlovich, but it will be at least a year until it is ready to be published.

Dmitri is not the son of Alexander Mikhailovich, he's the son of Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich, which makes him the last surviving legitimate grandson of Emperor Alexander II and his family is all that remains, apart from the Yuriveski's of the male Alexandrovichi branch.

Omg, awesome! I'm looking forward to it! :D

Arturo Beeche of the European Royal History Journal and Kensington Books is publishing it. Also, Will and I are giving a talk on Dmitri's 1915 diaries at the ERHJ conference the weekend of October 16/17 2010 in Emeryville, CA. It would be great to see you there if you can make it!

Wow this sounds great!! I wish I could go, I'd love to know more about his diaries. Unfortunately I'll be in Asia til early next year. :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on September 17, 2010, 03:46:20 PM
Dimitri Pavlovich
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0X18t-8ZkNM/S0h8Shqm7HI/AAAAAAAAAoo/na5pPryag7s/s320/tsar%27s+nephew.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 17, 2010, 07:42:37 PM
This one probably is from a documental

Dmitri and family

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7241/37323140.jpg) (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/37323140.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on September 17, 2010, 10:49:28 PM
Maybe its better that Arturo finish first the book of Ilana Miller! By the way Van Hoogstraten in the Hague is in search for him, because they have many orders for his bookshop.

Ilana had said the book should be ready in a few months as it was at the printers. Art has some rather serious health conerns right now.  :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 18, 2010, 02:01:28 AM
Full version of the picture posted by Katenka:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/grandddmtryaudson.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on September 20, 2010, 04:22:53 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/vladimir%20fam/vicdmitri1933001-1.jpg)
labeled as GD Dimitri and GD Victoria 1933
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on September 22, 2010, 03:54:18 PM
(http://www.allworldwars.com/image/060/Horseguard-019.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on September 23, 2010, 12:18:55 AM

labeled as GD Dimitri and GD Victoria 1933

I'd rather say that's Victoria's sister Sandra...though the resemblance is slight.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on December 18, 2010, 03:34:08 AM
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/6871/mitka.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: violetta on January 23, 2011, 04:06:23 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/dmitriattheolympics74tz.jpg)

GD Dmitriy Pavlovich at the Olympic Games
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on January 24, 2011, 03:31:15 AM
Oh yes! And obviously a good horse too!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 25, 2011, 02:41:15 AM
(http://www.picatom.com/1s/1-5788-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1s/1-5788.html)

GD Dmitriy in 1896
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on January 25, 2011, 03:55:35 AM
In the picture in Msge 455 Dimitri looks in his element. Less so in the team picture, but there the four of them are obviously concentrating on keeping their dressing (military speak for staying in line) while riding somewhat restive horses.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Marc on January 30, 2011, 04:45:10 AM
Is there any painted portrait of Dimitriy?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on February 02, 2011, 10:31:27 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/GD%20Dmitri/OLD%20Dmitri/dmtrycloseupolder.png)
Grand Duke Dmitri
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on February 02, 2011, 11:01:08 AM
Striking resemblance to his sister Maria in her later years...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Gorseheart on April 01, 2011, 03:35:22 AM
Does anyone have a larger version of this? It's so brilliant looking!
(http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/img/Dmitri2.gif)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on April 01, 2011, 03:41:26 AM
Does anyone have a larger version of this? It's so brilliant looking!
(http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/img/Dmitri2.gif)

It's a part of the photo with his sister Maria. I have a full version but can post only with a watermark.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on April 01, 2011, 04:20:11 AM
Does anyone have a larger version of this? It's so brilliant looking!
(http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/img/Dmitri2.gif)

Here you are:)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/k50mxs.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Gorseheart on April 01, 2011, 12:37:01 PM
Danke!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on April 03, 2011, 03:05:44 AM
GD Dmitri Pavlovich with Prince Ernst Louis of Hesse
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2804/file1e.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on May 03, 2011, 04:49:11 AM
GD Dmitriy with GDsses Maria Pavlovna-elder and Viktoria Fedorovna, May 1913 year.

(http://www.picatom.com/1w/Untitled1111k-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1w/Untitled1111k-1.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on June 19, 2011, 05:25:19 AM
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3166/dcf82b864864.jpg)Dmitri with the Tsar
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on December 10, 2011, 08:52:03 AM
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/ladyisab/dpwoman.jpg)

Who this woman can be?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on December 10, 2011, 08:58:31 AM
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/ladyisab/2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on December 10, 2011, 09:08:10 AM
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/ladyisab/scan0001.jpg)


wedding of Kira 1938- GD Dmitri smiling
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 12, 2011, 12:25:01 AM
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/ladyisab/dpwoman.jpg)

Who this woman can be?

Mathilde Kschessinska

quite a famous lady, and a bit a scandalous  ;)


she was friends with Dmitri's sister Maria, whom Mathilde called "my best friend"
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on January 11, 2012, 09:57:54 AM
grand duke Dmitri Pavlovich

(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd462/ladyisab/11zdj.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on December 10, 2012, 04:18:09 AM
William Lee and I are working on a biography of Dmitri Pavlovich, but it will be at least a year until it is ready to be published.

Any neews about this book?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Stardust on December 10, 2012, 12:08:00 PM
I was wondering about the same thing!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on December 10, 2012, 11:16:09 PM
Lisa was working hard on it today. Like everyone, I anxiously await it! Not only because of the subject but also because Lisa is a very fine and experienced writer.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 12, 2012, 02:14:08 PM
I am verklempt! Thank you for the compliment! A little update to our royal history friends:

Research and translations are on going while we are writing. Will is doing all of the translations and we keep coming up with new material and of course information. Of particular help to us have been Joe Furhman's Rasputin update because he has done the research in Russia on this controversial figure, Joe's translation of Nicholas and Alexandra's wartime diaries, and Margarita Nelipa's Murder of Grigorii Rasputin. All excellent materials which have helped us enormously.

We are of course in need of more materials. These are listed below. We will gladly sign releases as necessary and will of course make attributions:

1. White Crow - biography of GD Nicholas Mikhailovich
2. War Time Diaries of Nicholas and Alexandra (Fuhrman)
3. Last Diaries of Nicholas and Alexandra (to be published in 2013)

Two more things you should know: both Will and I are ill and so we have to be flexible in our timing. I had to leave my job in April and while I have some disability insurance, my claims take time as does trying to figure out how to budget our family on a reduced income which can also be irregular. IOW, please be patient with us. And if you can help us, do. Second, as it now stands, we are hoping to publish Dmitri's diaries with the book. With several caveats. the Ilyinsky family, and in particular, Prince Michael Pavlovich, have generously provided us with some of the diaries in translation. Any publication of these materials will require his permission.

That's all for now. We work on our book daily. I have a genealogy of DP that I've been working on for three years which is quite incredible on its own. Feel free to call or email me if you have questions or any material to contribute. We still are missing years of his diaries and understand them to be somewhere in France in a barn! Will's translations are fabulous and he sometimes posts materials on a group in Facebook.

Love,

Lisa
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Tatyana on December 12, 2012, 03:10:09 PM
I'm not certain I understand your request for "more materials":  do you need a copy of the book "White Crow"?
If so, I could lend you mine.
My late mother-in-law's second husband was Audrey Emery's brother, so it would be fun for me to help on this project!

Tatyana
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Laura Mabee on December 12, 2012, 03:24:32 PM
Lisa> I'll also message you about resources. Good on you for working so hard when life has given you so many lemons as of late. I hope your, and William's, health improves.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 12, 2012, 11:58:18 PM
Will had a biopsy a month or so ago. I have a nasty case of fibromyalgia. In my case, I am given to understand this is a chronic condition although I work hard to minimize my symptoms.

Thank you so much for the offers of help! I will stay in touch.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on January 19, 2013, 08:33:11 AM
Audrey :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/129024201202041823131.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=129024201202041823131.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on February 04, 2013, 07:30:41 AM
http://eng.tzar.ru/info/info-events/title/?id=3153
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on February 11, 2013, 03:31:33 AM
I very much like Dmitry of all Imperial Family.
Dmitry in group photos.
1
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station08_zpsc4ded15c.png) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station08_zpsc4ded15c.png)
2
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station07_zps75653dfc.png) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station07_zps75653dfc.png)
3
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station06_zps31f4815a.png) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station06_zps31f4815a.png)
4
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station05_zps3a00a63c.png) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station05_zps3a00a63c.png)
5
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station04_zps6c96a891.png) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station04_zps6c96a891.png)
6
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station03_zps54828f0f.png) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station03_zps54828f0f.png)
7
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station02_zps674c373c.png) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station02_zps674c373c.png)
8
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_railway_station01_zps76234b48.jpg) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_railway_station01_zps76234b48.jpg)
9
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_battlefront_zps623f51ec.jpg) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_battlefront_zps623f51ec.jpg)
10
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/th_GDD_AN_1909_zpsd152ccbd.jpg) (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/?action=view&current=GDD_AN_1909_zpsd152ccbd.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on March 06, 2013, 01:57:53 AM
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/D_gravura_new_zps27051d6e.jpg)
Link - http://www.tzar.ru/info/info-events/title/?id=3927

Persia (1917-18)
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GGD_rare/persia1917-m_zps17e39be2.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on March 06, 2013, 05:03:10 AM
Dimitri looks awfully young in the first picture. i would guess that it was produced in summer 1911, just at the time he was commissioned.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on March 07, 2013, 01:57:42 AM
Kalafrana, it is singular picture Dmintiy in full utiform Lieb-garde? (Except him childhood foto)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on March 29, 2013, 02:08:07 AM
1912 Stockholm Olympics

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/Mitenka_Swe_1912_sm_zps0bd7feb7.jpg)

full size http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/Mitenka_Swe_1912_big_zps39a05fc7.jpg


(с)
www.ebay.com (http://www.ebay.com)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Duchess Hydrangea on March 29, 2013, 09:10:34 AM
Have we mentioned his eye color on here? It seems they were green or hazel.  his father's eyes look hazel, almost brown. Also Vladimir, Natalia and Irene's eyes seem green to hazel.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on April 01, 2013, 02:43:16 AM
Duchess Hydrangea, green, I think )  The clear, no brown.

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/Dmitri_glaza_zps3cdcf6a5.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Duchess Hydrangea on April 01, 2013, 10:23:39 AM
Thank you Olga from St.P.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 01, 2013, 08:33:52 PM
Dmitri's height still amazes me. It can clearly be been in the Persia photo which I haven't seen before - he is at least a half foot taller than anyone else. In the 1912 photo at the Stockholm Olympics, he does not appear noticeably taller than the others, so likely much of his height comes from his long legs.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on April 18, 2013, 12:44:36 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/audry12_zps13857795.jpg)
Beautiful profile of Audry Emery
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Cristina Franco on June 19, 2013, 12:35:23 PM
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8688/s1p.png)
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6459/muao.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Cristina Franco on June 19, 2013, 12:38:14 PM

(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5008/cy7o.jpg)

(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/742/j49n.jpg)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1274/2o4n.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Cristina Franco on June 19, 2013, 12:40:32 PM
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3438/96df.png)

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4359/9x3.png)

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1308/yl0.png)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/285/p6k.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Cristina Franco on June 19, 2013, 12:42:59 PM
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8153/0axy.jpg)

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9061/l327.jpg)

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9909/34hy.png)

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7239/n56.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Cristina Franco on June 19, 2013, 12:45:09 PM
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2665/qso.png)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2456/m2t3.jpg)

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2896/be51.png)

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9831/7fq.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Cristina Franco on June 19, 2013, 12:47:36 PM
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9581/5c6.jpg)

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6089/rr3g.png)

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2298/sy85.jpg)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2659/r524.jpg)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8328/zam0.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on July 20, 2013, 11:26:17 AM
New exhibition in Puskin (was opened 17/07/13)
Part 1

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/_IMG_7688_zpsc6752028.jpg) (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/stj_album/media/0_DmitFe/GDDm/_IMG_7688_zpsc6752028.jpg.html)

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/_IMG_7740_zpscba2d539.jpg) (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/stj_album/media/0_DmitFe/GDDm/_IMG_7740_zpscba2d539.jpg.html)

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/signature_700_zps11eb36ba.jpg) (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/stj_album/media/0_DmitFe/GDDm/signature_700_zps11eb36ba.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Rodney_G. on July 24, 2013, 05:35:46 PM


(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/285/p6k.png)

Notice the interval between the NY Times date of publishing (August 2,1918) and the dateline of July 21 in Amsterdam.

I have before me a Times page carrying this story with a London dateline of July 25.

 "Dmitri A British Captain"

This little item 's focus, after mentioning Dmitri's appointment, is on his presence at the "famous supper in the palace of PrinceYoussoupoff in Petrograd which resulted in the death of the priest Rasputin".

It further states as a fact that Dmitri" owes his personal safety to the fact that he was on that front when the revolution broke out."

The Times article also notes that "the Daily Express {London newspaper} says that , if the report  of the death of the former heir-apparent Alexis is true, Dmitri is heir to the Russian throne."

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on September 19, 2013, 03:20:33 AM
Dmitry's home video:

1) http://youtu.be/xTFum7yqGyE
2) http://youtu.be/ODbnjx1mpaA
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Duchess Hydrangea on September 20, 2013, 03:07:00 PM
That was awesome!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: edubs31 on September 20, 2013, 04:29:36 PM
That was awesome!

Agreed! I watched the first one. Amazing sometimes how different people appear when they're in different settings or have simply grown older.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: ashanti01 on September 20, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
Thank you for posting those wonderful links. What I wouldn't give to be able to see that exhibit...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: miki_nastya on October 16, 2013, 05:57:56 AM
 Someone sayed on another site that Dimitri was married with Elisabeth of Romania, eldest daughter of Queen Marie of Romania, and that they live togheder in her country estate Banloc, Romania until his death. I never hear of these before....and it's seams pretty imposible to me...

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 16, 2013, 08:32:00 AM
Hi Miki!! i know who said that.

That person was banned from this forum (and some other royal forums) for good for inventing such crazy and outrageous stories about supposed descendants of Grand duke Mikhail Alexandrovich (Such a lost daughter of him and Natalia  and blah blah).

I read that pathetic and lunatic story about a daughter of Elisaveta and Dmitri in Diana Mandache FB page of Marie of Romania. I think that s the reason why she deactivated the option to leave messages on the page  s wall.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on January 08, 2014, 03:40:28 AM
I would like to congratulate someone who finally edited GD Dmitri's biography on Wikipedia- great job!!!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: edubs31 on January 08, 2014, 11:03:43 AM
I would like to congratulate someone who finally edited GD Dmitri's biography on Wikipedia- great job!!!

What parts needed editing?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on February 17, 2014, 02:11:31 AM
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2456/m2t3.jpg)

Big size )
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/78493848_zpsf20ed151.jpg)
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/0_9e27c_7c5fec9b_XXXL_zpscf115d06.jpg)

full ver.: http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/0_9e27c_7c5fec9b_XXXL_zpscf115d06.jpg

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4120/97833783.1b9/0_9e282_5bce6668_XXXL.jpg)
(right)
full ver. http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/0_9e282_5bce6668_XXXL_zpsa9a79c66.jpg

more some fotos: http://www.spletnik.ru/blogs/govoryat_chto/85714_leto-1913-goda
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 17, 2014, 03:30:11 AM
Interesting pictures. Do we know when and where they were taken?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on February 17, 2014, 06:48:08 AM
Summer 1913
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: edubs31 on February 21, 2014, 02:24:21 PM
Found a neat little website that I thought appropriate to share given these Russian Olympics that are currently taking place...

http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/ro/grand-duke-dmitry-pavlovich-romanov-1.html

A short bio of GD Dmitri and his Olympic stats. Interesting what the say about him. Was it common knowledge that he rode a horse named Unite' during his equestrian competition at the 1912 Summer Games in Stockholm?

As a member of Team-Russia he finished fifth place out of only six countries that year. But as an individual he did quite well posting a ninth place finish out of 31-riders. One might say this was especially impressive given his tender age, 20. Of all of the riders who finished between 1st and 13th in the "Men's Jumping" competition Dmitri was the only one under the age of 25. One of his teammates, Karol von Rommel, kept competing after 1912 and participated in both the 1924 & 1928 Olympics (1916 games were cancelled due to WWI, and Russia was not allowed to compete in 1920), eventually winning a bronze medal.

It seems that Dmitri might have had himself an impressive equestrian career had it not been for WWI, his exile after murdering Rasputin, and the subsequent dissolution of the Russian Empire.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Превед on April 12, 2014, 02:44:01 PM
For anyone who's interested here's the letter:

'Your Imperial Majesty. We all whose signatures You will read at the close of this letter, fervently and strongly implore You to mitigate Your severe decision concerning the destiny of Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch--We know that he is physically sick and deeply shocked, suprressed morally. You,--his former Trustee and Supreme Guardian, know his heart has always been filled with so much fervent love for You, Your Majesty, and for our Motherland. We entreat your IMperial Majesty, in view of the young age and really poor health of Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch to allow him to stay in Usov or Ilyinskoye. Your Imperial Majesty must be aware of how hard are the conditions for our troops in Persia, because of lack of living quarters, epidemics and other scourges of the human race, should Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch be obliged to stay there, it would mean his complete ruin and in the heart of Your Imperial Majesty, ther emust emerge some pity for the youth whom You have loved, who since childhood has been happy to be much and often near You and to whom You have been as kind as a father. May the Lord exhort Your Imperial Majesty to change Your decision and temper justice with mercy. Fervently faithful to and fondly loving Your Imperial Majesty [signatures followed]

Where is Usov? A village in Orenburgskiy Governorate?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on April 13, 2014, 12:28:54 AM
For anyone who's interested here's the letter:

'Your Imperial Majesty. We all whose signatures You will read at the close of this letter, fervently and strongly implore You to mitigate Your severe decision concerning the destiny of Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch--We know that he is physically sick and deeply shocked, suprressed morally. You,--his former Trustee and Supreme Guardian, know his heart has always been filled with so much fervent love for You, Your Majesty, and for our Motherland. We entreat your IMperial Majesty, in view of the young age and really poor health of Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch to allow him to stay in Usov or Ilyinskoye. Your Imperial Majesty must be aware of how hard are the conditions for our troops in Persia, because of lack of living quarters, epidemics and other scourges of the human race, should Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch be obliged to stay there, it would mean his complete ruin and in the heart of Your Imperial Majesty, ther emust emerge some pity for the youth whom You have loved, who since childhood has been happy to be much and often near You and to whom You have been as kind as a father. May the Lord exhort Your Imperial Majesty to change Your decision and temper justice with mercy. Fervently faithful to and fondly loving Your Imperial Majesty [signatures followed]

Where is Usov? A village in Orenburgskiy Governorate?

UsovO, not Usov. It's a village near Ilinskoe (estate of GD Sergei), estate of GD Pavel.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rudy3 on April 13, 2014, 02:29:22 AM
The name of the village is Usovo, some 30 km away from Moscow ...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Превед on April 13, 2014, 05:47:49 AM
Thank you, both. I am asking this for an Usov "claimant", a descendant of the eponymous founder of the estate: See http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1608.msg534611#msg534611 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1608.msg534611#msg534611)
Title: Audrey Emery
Post by: Cristina Franco on August 18, 2014, 02:09:42 PM
(http://img538.imageshack.us/img538/6941/fQAsfp.jpg)


Blog: www.mikhailalexandrovichromanov
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on August 18, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
Paul at that age bore quite a resemblance to his father. He looks rather as Dimitri would have done in a polo shirt!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on August 19, 2014, 01:54:38 AM
I think this picture was taken in 1960 so he's 32, of course he looks much healthier than his father. Audrey didn't age very well IMO
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on August 19, 2014, 11:49:58 AM
Oh yes. Paul looks like an active young man on holiday somewhere sunny.

Presumably his mother was a few years younger than Dimitri - born about 1900?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on August 19, 2014, 12:13:41 PM
GD Dmitri was born 1891,  Audrey in 1904 and died 1971
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on August 28, 2014, 02:37:42 AM
Was Dimitri in love with Coco Chanel?  Was Coco in love with Dimitri?


Their affair doens't look like a great romantic love actually. Seemed Coco just added to her collection of love affairs a prestiguious Royal  lover like GD Dmitriy (though he was penniless but the genealogy was rich!!!). The Grand Duke itself seemed lost in the post-War and post-Revolution years, he was living without really close friends (except hi sister Maria, certainly) and his own family. Probably the affair with Coco was a great entertainment for him, a sort of oblivion in the merry but wild and cruel world for a Grand Duke in the 1920s.
About Chanel and GD Dmitri- I'd recommend reading Lisa Chaney's book- Coco Chanel An intimate life. There is a whole chapter about their relationship
Here you can read the whole book- http://e-libra.ru/read/356635-coco-chanel:-an-intimate-life.html, - chapter 17 is about GD DP
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on October 09, 2014, 07:21:03 AM
Dmitiy in new Russian mini-serial "Grigoriy R." (2014) ))

(http://6.firepic.org/6/images/2014-10/09/9y71bga2kl5j.png)
(http://6.firepic.org/6/images/2014-10/09/gb1akshykubg.png)
(http://6.firepic.org/6/images/2014-10/09/ealu9navb5t8.png)

DP and FY
(http://6.firepic.org/6/images/2014-10/09/el2jy50ywomh.png)

Dmitriy and Olga
(http://6.firepic.org/6/images/2014-10/09/jhsxkl86eq9w.png)
(http://6.firepic.org/6/images/2014-10/09/usa0tbcbwrdk.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 09, 2014, 07:42:55 AM
Hm, the young man isn't a bad likeness, though he could do with being taller.

Is the girl meant to be Dimitri's mistress, or sister?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on October 09, 2014, 08:23:09 AM
Is the girl meant to be Dimitri's mistress, or sister?

It is Olga Nikolayevna )))

Encore, 08.09.1910, Komendantsky airfield in St.Petersburg
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/1910-09-08-aviators_zps07fac754.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Maria Sisi on October 09, 2014, 05:22:10 PM
Dmitiy in new Russian mini-serial "Grigoriy R." (2014) ))

WOW a Rasputin mini-serial, he got one before Nicholas and Alexandra did!

Has it aired yet, is it any good?

I hope it gets a English subtitled DVD release like Romanovy: Ventsenosnaya semya!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarinK on October 11, 2014, 02:33:54 AM
Interesting, is this the first series/movie that includes the speculation about an Olga/Dmitri marriage?

Encore, 08.09.1910, Komendantsky airfield in St.Petersburg

Great pose here!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Rodney_G. on October 14, 2014, 05:36:50 PM
From the clip in reply 519, the actress portraying Olga is the most true to the appearance of the real Olga at that time as I've seen in any film. Likewise for the actor playing Felix Y.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 15, 2014, 03:26:46 AM
I agree, the likenesses are very good, apart from Anna Vyrubova, who is far too slim and attractive!


Olga, are you sure the picture you post in Msge 521 is from 1910? I ask because Dimitri is wearing Horse Guards uniform, whereas in 1910 he was still a younker at the Nikolaievsky Cavalry School.

Has the film actually come out yet?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: edubs31 on October 15, 2014, 09:37:58 AM
I like what I'm seeing so far too. Although it'd be nice if they put up Olga's hair.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on October 23, 2014, 05:25:15 AM
The ball 23.02.1913

(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/41A043004400434043E04320441043A043804390-414043C043804420440043804390-41D0438043A043E043B043004350432043804470-4110430043B0-_zps9ebbd339.jpg)

Dmitri and Olga Alexandrovna
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x118/stj_album/0_DmitFe/GDDm/1913-02-23balGDD_zps88e46f5a.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on October 23, 2014, 07:32:11 AM
Interesting, is this the first series/movie that includes the speculation about an Olga/Dmitri marriage?

Tell me please, how did you learn this information? It's just curious. Maybe I just don't know the origin. The only book in which I have read this version is "Memoirs of Bogdanovich" (1923/4), but it's supposedly fake, although is cited sometimes.

Great pose here!

Yes (http://static.diary.ru/picture/1135.gif)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Olga from St.P. on October 23, 2014, 07:55:19 AM
I agree, the likenesses are very good, apart from Anna Vyrubova, who is far too slim and attractive!

Olga, are you sure the picture you post in Msge 521 is from 1910? I ask because Dimitri is wearing Horse Guards uniform, whereas in 1910 he was still a younker at the Nikolaievsky Cavalry School.

Has the film actually come out yet?

Maybe it is winter uniform? (http://static.diary.ru/userdir/0/0/0/0/0000/10098045.gif) It is +- this day then Lev Matshievich (the aviator) is dead, 1910

The film is "Grigory R." (2014), 8 episodes - will officially start off 27 oct 2014 in Russian TV, but I have already seen it  )
More my screenshots here: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17646.30

Some gifs, made my friend Mirlo:
Dmitri and Felix
(http://savepic.org/6149726.gif)
(http://savepic.org/6112848.gif)
(http://savepic.org/6107757.gif)
Felix sing the romance: "Время изменится" -- "The time will change"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHfE1Qxk-bw
(http://savepic.org/6149743.gif)
Title: Coco Chanel and the Pulse of History
Post by: Labuanbajo on October 25, 2014, 06:14:04 AM
A new biography by Rhonda K Garelick has a chapter on Chanel's affair with Dmitri in the 20's.

The author read Dmitri's diary which is held by the Houghton Library at Harvard University.

Here's a page of Dmitri's drawings. Chanel's favorite number was five - quelle surprise!

http://www.imagebam.com/image/8d3f29360001185

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: KarinK on October 25, 2014, 12:51:19 PM
Interesting, is this the first series/movie that includes the speculation about an Olga/Dmitri marriage?

Tell me please, how did you learn this information? It's just curious. Maybe I just don't know the origin. The only book in which I have read this version is "Memoirs of Bogdanovich" (1923/4), but it's supposedly fake, although is cited sometimes.

Some of the English language biographies talk about the gossip at the time, which was based on Olga and Dmitri being such a good dynastic match, beautiful young royals who might inherit the throne together if the mysteriously frail Alexei died (around 1912 people like the British ambassador's daughter were mentioning rumours of an engagement; for the foreign newspapers it was a little like selling stories of Brad and Angelina today, I guess). But it was just gossip, there was never an actual romance between them.

I haven't watched the new series so I don't know what actually happens in the scene where Olga and Dmitri walk arm in arm, but seeing those screencaps made me wonder if they'd decided to go with the dramatic suggestion of the writers who argue (without a lot of evidence) that Dmitri wanted revenge after Rasputin's stories about him ended his close relationship with the imperial family or even his supposed "engagement" with Olga.
Title: Re: Coco Chanel and the Pulse of History
Post by: rachel5a on October 26, 2014, 04:30:03 AM
A new biography by Rhonda K Garelick has a chapter on Chanel's affair with Dmitri in the 20's.

The author read Dmitri's diary which is held by the Houghton Library at Harvard University.
That's what he is saying about their affair: "I could not have chosen a better friend than dearest Coco to pass the time. We have the strangest relationship. I am far from being in love with her and never was. I fully realize that she is not even very beautiful, but nevertheless I am very attached to her. She herself, I don't know why, is astonishingly good to me, although she never brings up African passions and does not ask about what is happening or about the future". 1921.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Maria Sisi on January 09, 2015, 06:57:07 PM
Dmitri with Natalia Brasova circa 1920 in England

(http://media.tumblr.com/14ddbaa1ec8b02b731ca74db7619f06a/tumblr_inline_mt0h8stdoT1qz4rgp.png)

Dmitri with Nicholas and Alexandra
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/c925b54f30bead4da44ac389be558621/tumblr_mgxu2rXXPI1r71ilwo1_500.jpg)
teatimeatwinterpalace.tumblr

Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Maria Sisi on January 09, 2015, 07:01:17 PM
Dmitri and Coco Chanel

(http://40.media.tumblr.com/c8b8c66c154473eb607f7410fe681c94/tumblr_n29cytSOfg1r4yioeo1_1280.jpg)
The Scala Regia Magazine
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Maria Sisi on January 11, 2015, 03:02:20 PM
Dmitri with Nicholas
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0003-4.jpg)

Dmitri with her sister and nephew
(http://pics.qip.ru/2001ATY.png)
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/lan_ka_k/post283605408
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 13, 2015, 03:31:35 PM
(http://tzar.ru/Files/image/ria_2.jpg)

http://www.tzar.ru/info/info-events/title/?id=4036
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on March 24, 2015, 02:45:46 PM
Did his son Paul have any children
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 27, 2015, 03:11:31 AM
(http://nl.media.rbth.ru/all/2015/03/25/66.jpg)

Source: http://rbth.co.uk/multimedia/2015/03/25/romanov
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 27, 2015, 03:13:18 AM
Same source as above:

Dmitri Pavlovich with an 8-foot-long fish caught by himself. This photograph was published in several American newspapers / USA, 1931-1932.

(http://nl.media.rbth.ru/all/2015/03/25/9.jpg)

Grand Duke Dmitri at the Chateau de Beaumesnil adding the finishing touches to his railroad. 1930s.

(http://nl.media.rbth.ru/all/2015/03/25/10.jpg)

Polo de Beyris Coupe Carlton competition, August 5, 1928.

(http://nl.media.rbth.ru/all/2015/03/25/11.jpg)


Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 27, 2015, 03:14:12 AM
(http://nl.media.rbth.ru/all/2015/03/25/12.jpg)

The Grand Duke’s last birthday. St. Moritz, Switzerland, September 6, 1941.

(http://nl.media.rbth.ru/all/2015/03/25/_14.jpg)

The Grand Duke’s funeral, Davos, Switzerland, 1942

(http://nl.media.rbth.ru/all/2015/03/25/15.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on April 22, 2015, 09:52:55 AM
Does he have any decendants
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: amelia on April 22, 2015, 01:32:10 PM
Yes he has. His son was Paul Illinsky, the mayor of Palm Beach for many years. Paul Illinsky had sons and daughters who live in Cinccinatti, where Dimitry's wife was from. There are also grandchildren.

Amelia
(Eva McDonald0
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on May 13, 2015, 01:52:51 PM
thank you
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Bryndis on October 19, 2015, 02:21:19 AM
Dmitri at the 1912 Olympic Games in Stockholm

(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/1912c_zpsyzb4yyfp.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/1912c_zpsyzb4yyfp.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/1912b_zpsbn2upjr5.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/1912b_zpsbn2upjr5.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/1912_zpsehndjblq.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/1912_zpsehndjblq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on October 19, 2015, 06:41:23 AM
Interesting that Dimitri was using the forward seat at a time when it was very new and controversial. Perhaps he was influenced by Paul Rodzianko, who went to Italy, the birthplace of the forward seat,  to train with the Italian cavalry.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: edubs31 on October 26, 2015, 11:49:27 PM
Great photos Bryndis! I always wanted to see more of Dmitri at that year's Olympics. The Russian team made a mediocre at best showing but Dmitri did rather well given he was one of the youngest and least experienced competitors. Had the 1916 not been cancelled and had Dmitri been invited back it would have been interesting to see if he could have medaled.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
Post by: Queen_Missy on July 26, 2017, 03:34:04 PM
Does anyone know who Dmitri's godparents were? and his sister Maria's too for that matter - besides Serge and Dagmar.