Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Russian History => The Russian Revolution => Topic started by: AGRBear on April 07, 2005, 02:08:32 PM

Title: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on April 07, 2005, 02:08:32 PM
How many know that there were American Troops in Russia who were sent to fight the Bolshviks during the Revolution and Civil War?

I'd like for this thread to be dedicated to these Americans.

I'd also like to learn alittle about the American involvement in the campaigns against the Bolsheviks.

Next to me I have the memoirs of a Private First Class Donald E. Carey who was from  Custer, Michigan, 12th Co.,  3rd Batt.  [p. 7] who with his group left  for Camp Mills then  under the flag Co. E. 399th  Infantry sailed on the HMT (His Majesty's transport) Northumberland, which had been docked in Hoboken, N.J., on 21 July 1918 9  [p. 25].  Reached England on 3 Aug. 1918.  Boarded the  HMT Nagory [p. 37],  a merchant ship that usually traveled between England and India and left port on the [27th Aug]  27th of Aug..

"Our American Expeditionary Force consisted of the 339th Infantry regiment; 1st Battalion, 310th engineers;  337th Ambulance Company; and 337 th Field Hospital Company, all under Col. George E. Steward, U.S. Army, commanding officer of the 339th Infantry."

With Carey's ship the Nagory were thee others , the Somali, Tydeus and the Czar plus a small convoy of four or five small British vessels.  In all there were about 4,477 men of all ranks detached from the 85th Division on the Nagory, Somali and Tydeus.

They took "A zigzag course ...across the North Sea,", to the Norwegian Sea and around Norway to Barents [sic] and into the White Sea... [pps 39-41] across the Dvina Bay and up the Dvina river.... passed Archangel and stoped on the east bank of the Dvina river at Smolny.  On 5 Sept Carey and the others stepped off the gangplank onto Russian soil.

FIGHTING THE BOLSHEVIKS, The Russian War Memoir of Private First Class Donald E. Carey  US Army, 1918-1919.



AGRBear



Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Arleen on April 07, 2005, 02:43:59 PM
Bear this is a wonderful topic.  I am a Civil War fan but I have never heard of this.  I shall be watching this thread closely to see what I can LEARN!
..A
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Duke_of_Kent on April 08, 2005, 09:48:32 PM
http://www.umich.edu/~bhl/bhl/mhchome/polarb.htm

This link might be of interest to you...
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on April 10, 2005, 07:07:37 PM
Ok, here is what little I know. In the summer of 1918 President Wilson (hereafter referred to aws PW) decided that the U.S needed to intervene in Siberia to protect its $1 billion investment of guns etc. left along the Trans-Siberian Railroad. PW approved sending 8,000 men to Siberia. The man he chose to lead those troops was A U.S. General William S. Graves.
Graves had just become a general. He was expecting an assginment to Europe. I have a photo of  Graves and some of him with his staff, but I can't figure out how to post it on this sight. Wilson did pay lipservice to "spreading democracy" etc. But mostly, sending Graves' men was to protect the money. You know what they say, follow the money. Wilson's orders to Graves were to protect allied military stores, guard the TSR, and help out the Czech legion. He was told NOT to interfer in Russian internal policy.
Graves was born in Texas in 1865. He was also a graduate of West Point. GRABEAR, I don't know if this is what you are looking for on this thread, but I have read a little but about Graves so I thought I would toss it in the pot.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on April 10, 2005, 07:11:07 PM
AGRBear,
Sorry for the mis-spelling of you name in the above post.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on April 11, 2005, 01:35:25 PM
To correct the spelling, at the top of each of your posts are the words "modify" click on it and it'll take you to your post.  Make correction, click on "save" below and presto, correction is completed.

If you want to post a photo, go to photobucket which is free.  Do your sign-up free part.  

http://photobucket.com/

They will then show you your own place and from their you pull in a file off of your desktop and or folder where you have the photo waiting and ready, then click on "submit", wait and wait a little longer then scroll down and you will see the photo.  Under it will be a URL, copy it and head back here.

Above the post box you see a line of faces then above that you see a line of symbols.  The fourth from the left looks like a small snapshot.  Click on it.

And this sill appear in your post> (http://)

With the URL you've copied place it between [img]URLXXX[/imag]
and that will hold in your photo.

After you're done with your post, click "Post" below or "Preview" and you'll see you've accomplished your first photo incert.

There will be no stopping you then  ;D  .....

Good luck.

AGRBear

PS Forgot to say, yes, many of us would like to learn more about Graves.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on April 11, 2005, 08:14:16 PM
I agree with elizaveta. The books she recommends are great too. Also, President Wilson ordered. But this topic is about the troops that fought in Russia and not the motivations of the U.S. government Maybe that is a discussion for another day. Anyway, another U.S. Serviceman sent to Russia was Col. Charles Morrow. He commanded the Twenty-seventh Infantry Regiment. They were sent to guard a section of the TSR that stretched from Mysovaya to Verkhne-Udinsk. I don't know a lot about him, but have wondered if he was related to Anne Morrow Lindbergh.
.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Coldstream on April 12, 2005, 02:26:30 PM
The main reasons for the Allied intervention in North Russia and Siberia were a desire to keep Russia in the war, fear of Bolshevik domination, and the possibility of German submarine bases being established in North Russia.  Allied military stores falling into the hands of the "Reds" was also a concern.  In May 1918, the old cruiser USS OLYMPIA (Admiral Dewey's flagship at the Battle of Manila Bay, 1898) arrived in Murmansk to assist British forces already there (Royal Navy and Royal Marine Light Infantry).  Sailors from the OLYMPIA were engaged in firefights with Bolsheviks south of Archangel.  They were eventually joined by elements from the American 85th Division (339th Infantry Regiment, 1st Bn 310th Engineers, 337th Field Hospital and the 337th Ambulance Company).  The force would eventually number 5500 men.  The troops were withdrawn in June 1919 after suffering numerous casualties from combat and disease.  The 31st Infantry Regiment served in Siberia (Vladivostok) alongside troops from Britain, France and Japan.

It is interesting to note that the bulk of American infantry were armed with the Russian Moisin-Nagant 7.62 rifle, large quantities of which were manufactured by the Remington and Westinghouse companies in the United States for the Imperial government.  British Lewis guns and Vickers machine guns were also used.

Coldstream
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Coldstream on April 12, 2005, 02:29:54 PM
There exists an interesting book on the subject of the American intervention:

    The Midnight War: The American Intervention in Russia, 1918-1920 by Richard Goldhurst, McGraw-Hill, 1978.

Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on April 14, 2005, 12:31:39 PM
Quote
I suggest "America's Secret War Against the Bolsheviks"  by
David Fogelson.  There are many, many books on this subject.  They deal with Allied intervention in the south, north and east of Russia presumably to guard the Trans Siberian Railway in the east.  It was much more than that, of course.  Like the French, Brits, and Japanese, the US was committed to defeating the Bolsheviks.  If they had any interest in Nicholas and his family, it was probably fleeting and  coincidental.  
General Graves left a good autiobio, and the Hoover Institute is filled with memoirs, manuscripts and other accounts left by both officers and men who took part in the American Allied Expeditionary Force.  The account of David Barrows, head of US Intelligence in that area, can be found in the Bancroft Library, UCBerkeley.

I'm reminded of a professor of Russian history who once told me that it is not adequate to focus on one event in one time period, but one must understand the entire picture.  I doubt seriously that the Allied Intervention had anything to do with the dead Czar or any attempted "rescue",  but it is vastly important to understanding the events -- economic, political and military -- of those years.   E


A little more about Gen. William Graves is found in McNeal's Book  THE PLOTS TO RESCUE THE TSAR p. 145:

"..one of the few surving after-the-fact documents is a strange dispatch from Major Slaughter to General William Graves, Commanding Officer of the American Expeditionary Force in Sibera and the same man who sent the "family seven time" telegrams, five months after 17 July. And it is in Graves telegram p. 225 where Graves talks about Gen. Romanovsky and "family".

Some think "family" was code for the IF.  However, if this was true, the Americans were talking about the IF being alive in Dec. of 1918 which was five months after the CHEKA announced the execution of Nicholas II.

According to a "special cipher" the telegrams held a code within a code which was labeled then "Special Green".

I'm not sure  what all this means.  It could be referring to the IF or it could be telegrams about Japan or something completely different.  So, I'm just posting it here and let you dig into the evidence farther if you'd like.

I'd like to thank everyone who has posted that I'm glad you, too, are interested.  And the link Duke of Kent gave us is great:

Quote
http://www.umich.edu/~bhl/bhl/mhchome/polarb.htm

This link might be of interest to you...


AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on April 14, 2005, 11:06:48 PM
That is very interesting AGRBear. Thank you for passing on the information.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on April 14, 2005, 11:08:11 PM
Quote
One should read the entire Graves file  to get a complete picture and not select certain dispatches to bolster a position.  One should also read material supplied by his attending officers and men and the diplomatic corps who worked with him.  General Graves was once described as a park policeman sent to put out a war.


What are you referring to elizaveta? I don't see anyone trying to bolster a position, just sharing information.
Can you be more specific on your reading suggestions? Perhaps the name of the book or books to which you are referring?
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on April 15, 2005, 11:14:20 AM
Quote
One should read the entire Graves file  to get a complete picture and not select certain dispatches to bolster a position.  One should also read material supplied by his attending officers and men and the diplomatic corps who worked with him.  General Graves was once described as a park policeman sent to put out a war.


I'm sorry to hear one of our American officers was described "as a park policeman".  

I. like lexi4, do not understand what you mean by bostering a position.  If you look at my first post, this is about ALL Americans who fought Bolsheviks in Russia.  Graves was just one of many.

AGRBear

PS  Links which tell us more about Gen. Graves:
1. http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/GG/fgr16.html
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on April 15, 2005, 11:36:58 AM
Links which gives us information about the Americans fighting the Bolshseviks in Russia:
#Allies Intervention In Russian Civil War:
http://www.regiments.org/wars/ww1/russia.htm
#Robert Willlett's Report:
http://hnn.us/articles/5118.html
#Americans in Siberia and Northern Russia:
http://www.militaria.com/8th/WW1/siberia.html
#Navy- North Russian Expdtitionary Forces:  ships photographs, letters, documents from Allies and Bolsheviks:
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1z05NorthRussia.htm
#Frederick C Giffin: Trans-Siberian Railway in the World History -
http://www.icc.ru/fed/transsib.html
#Wars, Causes, Timeline, Russian Civil War
http://www.regiments.org/wars/ww1/russia.htm#chronology
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on April 15, 2005, 05:01:28 PM
Everyone is giving us a great start.  Thanks.

Here is a map showing areas around Archangle where the Allies [British, American, Canadian, Italian, Serb and Finnish troops] were in 1918-1919:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/ArchangelMap1.jpg)

Petrozavodsk was a little more than 100 milies from Petrograd [St. Persburg] on the north side and the furthest advance of anti-Bolshevik troops by Oct. 1919 on the south south west was about 25 miles....

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on April 15, 2005, 06:11:11 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/AlliesAntiBMap2.jpg)

This map shows how close  to Petrograd [St. Petersburg]  the anti-Bolshevik forces reached by 1919.  The dark area to the south and the line [latice work] to the north.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on April 16, 2005, 11:27:31 PM
Quote
I refer those who want to read more about the Allied intervention to the Hoover Institute online list of their holdings.  These books and documents run into the many thousands of pages.  It's obviously impossible to recall each and every mention of Gen. Graves.  He was thought to be a strict constructiionist of Wilson's aide memoir and not equipped to deal with the extremely complex situation in Siberia where, despite orders to the contrary, American troops were engaged in active fighting.  
 I think it was pretty much kill or be killed.



Many were killed and wounded before Allied troops were forced to leave Vladi. when the Bolsheviks took over.

Books;  Fogelson, America's Secret War Against the Bolsheviks
Ward, With the DieHards in Siberia
Bradley, Allied Intervention in Russia  1917-1920
Jackson, At War With the Bolsheviks
and of course Graves's own autobio.

This is just the tip of the iceberg but provides references to other work in this historical period.  E



Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on May 02, 2005, 04:23:39 PM
John Culloton wrote:

>>Graves determined that he would form his command into 250 man provisional companies with men from each of the states: if there were heavy casualties, Graves didn't want them all from the same place. By August 10, Graves had detached 5,002 men from the 8th Infantry Division which included forty-eight sergeants, ninety-six corporals, thirty-nine first and 24 second lieutenants. His command left San Francisco on August 15th aboard the Sheridan and Thomas, converted cattle ships. He reached Vladivostok on the bay of the Golden Horn on September 1, where he merged his command with 3,011 officers and men of the 27th (53 officers and 1537 enlisted men) and 31st (46 officers and 1375 enlisted men) Infantry Regiments, Regular Army, who had left Manila for Vladivostok three weeks before.<<

The rest of his article is found on
http://www.militaria.com/8th/WW1/siberia.html

Another article with photo of Graves and staff, Russia 1918:
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/wgraves.htm

Graves and his staff in Russia in 1917:

(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g139/AGRBear3/GravesStaff1918.jpg)

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on May 02, 2005, 05:11:15 PM
Here is an interesting side note about one of the guns, a Colt 45, which one of the Amercians brought into Russia which ended up in the hands of the Bolshvick Yurovsky who claimed he shot and killed Nicholas II with this particular gun..

THE PLOTS TO RESCUE THE CZAR by Shay McNeal:
 
On p. 164
 
She talks about the Colt 45 which  is said by the Bolsheviks to have been the weapon which killed Nicholas II.
 
"It's serial number was 71905.  In tracking down the weapon, I obtained additional information the Colt Company historian Kathleen Holt.  If the serial number 71905 were followed by a letter, then the gun would have been part of a Colt shipment to Russia, possibly through France.  But if there was no letter following the serial number, then the history of Yurovsky's gun wold be quite different.  Colt's archives indicate that the gun model 1911 serial number 71905 (without any letter tagged on at the end) was manufactures in 1914 and was sold to the United States government.  It was delivered to the Ordnance Officer at Fort Thomas, Kentucky on 30 April 1914, one of 150 weapons received.  The 45s were issued to officers, military police and pilots only.
 
"Thus the self-proclaimed leader of the assassins, at least according to the serial number Radzinsky gave, was using an American army issue gun.  Yet American was not supposed to have a military presence in Russia in July 1918.  The US finally sent troops to Siberia approxiamately six weeks later under the command of General William Graves.  If the serial number Radzinsky quotes is right, then how did the Colt 45 from Kenturcky end up in the hands of Yurovsky?"
 
How did it end up in Yurovsky's hands six weeks before the Americans with Graves landed on Russian soil?

American troops had landed at Archangel in August 1918.... That still too late for it to be in the hands of Yurovsky on the 16 / 17th of July....

Was there  an American in the area of Ekaterinburg before 16 th of July 1918?   If so, who was he and what was he doing there?  Was the American captured by the Bolshviks and that's  how the Colt 45 ended up in the hands of Yurovsky?

According to McNeal, the gun was issued to an officer or to a member of the military police or to a pilot  "at Fort Thomas, Kentucky on or after 30 April 1914".

A new mystery?

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on May 02, 2005, 07:42:34 PM
Corection of earlier post which was in error in which I placed the wrong information about Ermakov's Mauser and Yurovsky's Colt 45.  The following is, now, correct:
Ermakov's Mauser>>(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/Mauser.jpg) 

Here is a gun which resembles the Colt 45,an American made gun,  which is what Yurovsy claimed he used to kill Nicholas II:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/Colt451914.jpg)

I should also note:  It was my error and not Shay McNeal's
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: J_Kendrick on May 02, 2005, 09:43:00 PM
Quote
The Colt 45 which Yurovsky claimed he used to shoot Nicholas II.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/Colt45.jpg)

AGRBear


Just one problem:  The gun in this picture is not a Colt  It's a Mauser.

JK
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on May 02, 2005, 11:39:21 PM
JK,
good work. That's funny. If you are correct, I have to wonder about the credability of the information provided by McNeal.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on May 03, 2005, 09:13:33 AM
Gun photo didn't come out of McNeal's book but another.

The following photograph is a Mauser, the one which Ermakov claimed he used to kill Nicholas II.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/Mauser.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/ErmakovGrave.jpg)<< Ermakov who is being photograph not far from the mass grave which was found in Pig's Meadow.

Thankyou J_Kenrick for correcting my blunder.

Ermakov used a Mauser, which he said he used to shoot and kill Nicholas II,  and,  Yurovsky used a Colt 45, which Yurovsky claimed he used to shoot and kill Nicholas II.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: lexi4 on May 03, 2005, 01:48:33 PM
Quote
Gun photo didn't come out of McNeal's book but another.

The following photograph is a Mauser, the one which Ermakov claimed he used to kill Nicholas II.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/Colt45.jpg) << Ermakov's Mauser

Thank you bear for clearing that up.  :)
Thankyou J_Kenrick for correcting my blunder.

Ermakov used a Mauser, which he said he used to shoot and kill Nicholas II,  and,  Yurovsky used a Colt 45, which Yurovsky claimed he used to shoot and kill Nicholas II.

AGRBear

Thank you bear for clearing that up.  :)

Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Fawzia on June 02, 2005, 12:48:17 PM
Now I looked and I didn't see it, but if this already has been discussed then just tell me and I'll go find it.   :)

Now this is kind of vague, but my history teacher years ago mentioned sort of as an afterthought to a lesson that American soldiers were sent to Russia during the civil war, and that they of course ended up pulling out because it was just way over their heads.  

Which side were they fighting for?  I'm guessing the Whites...?   What led Woodrow Wilson to this action?   How long were they even there for?

This is one thing I've obviously missed, I never heard it mentioned but that one time, not in books, not on documentaries...?  Is it a really obscure and fogotten fact or have I just really been missing the boat for a while?
:-[
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on June 02, 2005, 06:41:04 PM
There is a thread about American's Fight Against the Bolshevik:

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=revolution;action=display;num=1112900912;start=0#0

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on June 02, 2005, 06:48:43 PM
FIGHTING THE BOLSHEVIKS by Donald E. Carey, U.S. Army, 1918-1919
p. 41

5 Sept 1918

"...at 1600 had to shoulder my pack and rifle and march on deck with the rest of E Comapny.  Down the gangplank we went and I stepped on the blood-cursed soil of the despotic czars."

"After the usual delay we marched across the rotten planks of a vast wharf dotted with large warehouses, arriving at a gate where a dingy Russian soldier stood guard.  The gate was swung open.  If I had stepped on Russian soil upon leaving the Nagorya [ship], I now wallowed in it.  The mile or less of cobblestone street along our route was covered with six to eight inches of dark, sloppy mud."
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Fawzia on June 02, 2005, 08:18:13 PM
Thanks!!   :) :) :)

How the heck did I miss that?!   :-[ :D
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on June 06, 2005, 03:29:09 PM
FIGHTING THE BOLSHEVIKS by Donard E. Carey, U.S. Army, 1918-1919

Some soliders of E Company, which included our author, took a tug to Bakaritza....

20 Sept to 23 Oct 1918

He wrote:

p. 53:

"Guarding the stock at Bakaritz was a small force of English, Scots, Russians, French and, and other American troops besides E Company."


"While looking at the large transports anchored only fifty yards away I noticed a comouflaged floatplane, capture by our troops as they fought southward along the railroad."

p. 59

"Our men often critized the English for, among other things, their refusal to salute Americans."

"I thought we were treated with more considereation by English officers than by our own, who were formal and terse.  If some of the incidents I heard were true, it was the English who had cuased to complain.  One corporal told me that, when asked by anEnglish officer why he did not salute, he said:  "We quit doing that in 1776!"

p. 61:

...Corporal Damagalski told me a wireless was received stating the war had ended."

"Officers and men spent the night in a drunken spree."

p. 62

"Early in the morning I was told our company had been ordered to the front."



Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on June 08, 2005, 04:21:22 PM
If you'd like to read a different kind of battle fought by an American who was on the opposite side of the American soldiers sent to defeat the Bolsheviks,   there was the fighter who didn't raise his sword but used his typewriter.  His name was John Reed who wrote: TEN DAYS THAT SHOOK THE WORLD.  One of the few books where you'll see the author's name larger than the title of the book.

John Reed was born in Portland, Oregon in the year 1887.  He became a correspondent, first in the Mexican War of 1916, then a reporter in WWI which took him to Russia.  He became "Red" John Reed who spread the socialist word.  He died of typhus in 1920 and was buried in Red Square in the Heroes' Grave with a plaque on the Kremlin wall which commenorates his service to the Communist-Labour Party in Russia  and in the USA, which was just forming at that time.

Some lines from his book:

p. 255-6

"It was on 18 November that the snow came.  In the morning we woke to window-ledges heaped white, and snowflakes falling so whirling thick that it was impossible to see ten feet...."

"I sat...in a traktir -- a kind of lower-class inn- across the street from the gates of Smolny; a low-ceiling, loud place called 'Uncle Tom's Cabin', much frequeted by Red Guards.  They crowded it now, packed close around the little tables with their dirty table-cloths and enormous china tepots, filling the place with foul cigarette smoke, while the harassed waiter ran about crying 'Seichass!  Seichass!  In a inute!  Right away!"

"In one corner sat a man in the uniform of a captain, addressing the assembly, which interrupted him at every few words.

'You are no better than murderes! he cried.  'Shooting down your Russian brothers on the streets!'

'When did we do that?' asked a worker.

'Last Sunday you did it, when the yunkers--'

'Well, didn't they shoot us?' One man exhibited his arm in a sling.  'Haven't I got something to remember them by, the devils?'

The captin shouted at the top of his voice.  'You should remain neutral!  You should remain neutral!  Who are you to destroy the legal Governemnt?  Who is Lenin?  A German--'

'Who are you?  A counter-revolutionist!  A provocator!' they bellowed at him.

When he could make himself heard the captain stood up. 'All right!' said he.  'You call yourselves the people of Russia. But you're not the people of Russia.  The peasants are the people of Russia.  Wait until the peasants--'

'Yes,' they cried, 'wait until the peasants speak.  We know what the peasasnts will say... Aren't they working-men like ourselves?'"

Reed tells us in his next paragraph p. 256:

"In the long run everything depended upon the peasants.  While the peasants had been politically backward, still they had their own peculair idea, and they consituted more than eighty per cent of the people of Russia.  The Bolsheviki had a comparatievly small following among the peasants;  and a permenent dictatorship of Russia by the industrial workers was impossible... The traditional peasant party was the Socialist Revolutionary party; of all the parties now supporting the Soviet Government, the Left Socialist Revolutionaries were logical inheritors  of the peasant leadership-- and the Left Socialist Revolutionaries, who were at the mercy of the organized city proletariat, desperately needed the back of the peasants..."

Like so many supporters of the Socialist Revolution,  John Reed had no idea that the socialist Lenin would become a dictator who would be as cruel and as harsh as any Tsar before him and who would break almost all the promises given to the peasants of Russia.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on June 08, 2005, 04:55:33 PM
Web sites about John Reed:

Photograph of John Reed and much more:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.casahistoria.net/americ1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.casahistoria.net/1917.htm&h=193&w=120&sz=5&tbnid=eWsz82MbxdEJ:&tbnh=98&tbnw=60&hl=en&start=11&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJohn%2BReed%2BRussia%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

John Reed info: http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/johnreed.htm

John Reed info: http://www.answers.com/topic/john-reed

Last Days of John Reed: http://www.marxists.org/archive/bryant/works/1920/john-reed.htm

John Reed wrote about Lenin:
http://www.cooper.edu/humanities/core/hss3/j_reed.html
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on June 12, 2005, 03:52:30 PM
The following site has some great photographs.
 I stumbled into it when looking for Gen. Janin data.
 The title is America's Secret War.

http://secretwar.hhsweb.com/

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: RussMan on August 31, 2005, 02:02:48 PM
Quote
Thanks!!   :) :) :)

How the heck did I miss that?!   :-[ :D


The Americans definitely fought for the Whites. :) However, i'm not surprised that you never heard of this aspect of American military involvement because it was not popular. Even today most people still know nothing of it, and i'm not sure why it is not spoken of in classes more often.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Tania+ on September 08, 2005, 02:53:22 PM
I know that this threads subject is :
'Americans fought Bolsheviks in Russia'.

Don't know how to start another thread if it's needed.
Could someone start a thread on that below, entitled:
'Americans fought for Bolsheviks and the RR'?

But, i'm wondering how many Americans are there known whom fought for and alongside the Bolsheviks in Russia?

How many Americans joined and fought alongside  other revolutionary groups in Russia?

How much I wonder was sent out of America, to support the needs of the revolution, and finally the Soviet Government  from Americans here at home from Americans?

Thanks,

Tania

Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on September 08, 2005, 05:00:41 PM
There are many people digging through all kinds of records, document, etc. as we write.  Books are being formed but a lot will be lost because here are not enough people interested.

I'm not sure who the "RR" is.

AGRBear

PS To start your own topic, click on Russian Revolution.  Near the top line where you see the numbers for pages 1,2,3 on the left and  on the right you see "Start New Topic", click on it, incert the title, write out a message, post, and you have your own thread.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Tania+ on September 08, 2005, 11:14:42 PM
Dear Bear,

Thank you so very much. Your the first person who was kind enough to 'clue' me on on how to post. Think I have the hang of it, lol. It worked !

Yes, I'm sure that there is still more than enough to write about the russian revolution, people, issues, etc.

Glad to find that there is even a place as this to voice a question, and gain feedback. Don't think there is anything like this on all of the internet. It's a great place, and certainly keeps me occupied, and my mind off my 24/7 pain.

Thank you again Bear. : )

Tania
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on February 26, 2006, 05:56:53 PM
FIGHTING THE BOLSHEVIKS by Donald Carey, edited  by Neil G. Carey who wrote the preface p. x:

>>This is the daily record and recollections of Pfc. Donald E. Carey, E Company, 339th Infantry Regiment,  85th Division (detachment in north Russia), one of the 5,600 American soldiers who fought the Bolsheviks there during 1918 and 1919.<<

Let me repeat the number of American soldiers who fought the Bolsheviks.  There were 5,600 known soldiers.  

The Preface of this books gves us seven reasons why Pres. Wilson ordered American troops to Russia and Siberia from p. x to xii.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on March 11, 2006, 03:31:46 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/CareyBkCov.jpg)

FIGHTIN THE BOLSHEVIKS
Edited by Neil G. Carey

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on March 11, 2006, 03:35:55 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/CareyPic1.jpg)

Private First Class Donald E. Carey, U.S. Army 1918-1919

[Company E., 339th Infantry]

Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on March 11, 2006, 03:56:23 PM
In my efforts to find more information on the American US Soldiers in Russia who fought the Bolshviks,  I went to Google,  clicked on "images" and wrote in these words  "339th Infantry Russia".  Up poped dozens of images.  Take a look.  Meanwhile,  I see what I can post here.

What I was looking for was a photo of:

Colonel George Stewart, U.S.A. commanding officer of the 339th Infantry.

(http:// http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/ColStewartPolarExp.jpg)

I did find one on Wilds P. Richardson who relieved Stewart in April of 1919.  

I'll  post Richardson photograph when I find the time.

List:
#http://pages.prodigy.net/mvgrobbel/photos/339photos.htm

#http://www.umich.edu/~bhl/bhl/mhchome/polarb.htm
On this web site you'll find the following:
Descriptions of Collections:

     Manuscripts, Photographs, and Maps:
   * Abel, Henry J.
   * Albers, George
   * Anderson, Godfrey J.
   * Arkins, Edwin L.
   * Bahr, Golden C.
   * Bigelow, John W.
   * Billeau, Ewald H.
   * Bonnell, Jay H.
   * Boren, John
   * Broaddus, B. F.
   * Bruce, E. D.
   * Buckler, Aldred S.
   * Chriswell, Keith
   * Clark, Rodger Sherman
   * Colburn, Cleo M.
   * Crissman, John Sherman
   * Douma, Frank W.
   * Dundon, Walter F.
   * Flaherty, Edward
   * Frisbie, Nora G.
   * Fulcher, Earl
   * Geltz, Albert E.
   * Glassford, Harold T.
   * Heath, Alex
   * Henkelman, William
   * Jenks, Stillman Visscher
   * Jung, Frank Richard
   * Katz, Henry
   * Kiel, Frank Burdette
   * Lewis, Charles E.
   * Macalla, Michael J.
   * McGrath, Frank J.
   * McKenzie, Walter Ingles
   * McPhail, Hugh D.
   * [Maps of Archangel District, Russia]
   * Michigan Historical Collections Topical Photograph Collection: Polar Bear Expedition
   * Moore, Joel Roscoe
   * Nordman, Ethol Fred
   * North Russia Expeditionary Force, Mapping Section
   * O’Dell, Frederick Charles
   * Odjard, Otto Arthur
   * Parrish, Silver
   * Piers, John J.
   * Polar Bear Association
   * Ramsey, Leon
   * Rasmussen, Roy Paul
   * Robins, F. George
   * Russell, Carl A.
   * Ryan, Charles Brady
   * Salchow, Hugo K.
   * Scheu, Clarence G.
   * Schicker, Louis E.
   * Shilson, Gilbert T.
   * Sibley, James B.
   * Simpson, Charles Althen
   * Skellenger, Kenneth A.
   * Smith, Gordon W.
   * Swihart Leon R.
   * Trombley, Edward
   * U. S. Army. American Expeditionary Force, North Russia
   * U. S. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th
   * U. S. Army. Signal Corps
   * Ward, Lee J.
   * Whyte, Malcolm K.

   * Books, Serials, and Broadsides

USA Photos:
http://www.gwpda.org/photos/ust2.htm
#1- Large photo of Company 1, 339th Infantry "Return From Russia:
http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin12/imag1158.jpg
#2 :  US 339th Infantry convoy between Archangel and Berezinski, 18 Jan 1919:
http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin10/imag0968.jpg


AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on March 11, 2006, 05:14:37 PM
Here is the list of Americans who served in the Polar Bear Expedition to Russia to fight the Bolsheivks:

http://polarbears.si.umich.edu/index.pl?node=browse%20by%20%3A%20individual%20name&lastnode_id=272
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on March 11, 2006, 05:19:07 PM
Americans who landed at  Archangel with the 339th Infantry were found on this page showing "browse" and the following is one of he subjects of  military units serving:
http://polarbears.si.umich.edu/index.pl?node=browse%20by&lastnode_id=441

   *
         o
               + Canada. Canadian Army. Field Artillery Brigade, 16th.
               + Canada. Canadian Army. Field Artillery Brigade, 16th. Battery, 67th.
               + Canada. Canadian Army. Field Artillery Brigade, 16th. Battery, 68th.
               + Canada. Canadian Army. Field Artillery Brigade, 16th. Headquarters.
               + Michigan. National Guard.
               + United States. Army.
               + United States. Army. Ambulance Company, 337th.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Battalion, 1st.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Company A.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Company B.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Company C.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Company D.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Company E.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Company F.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Headquarters.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Medical Corps.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Medical Detachment.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Supply.
               + United States. Army. Engineer Regiment, 310th. Train.
               + United States. Army. Field Hospital Company, 337th.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Battalion, 1st.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Battalion, 2nd.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company A.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company B.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company C.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company D.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company E.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company F.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company G.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company H.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company I.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company K.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company L.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Company M.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Headquarters Company.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Medical Detachment.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Supply Company.
               + United States. Army. Infantry, 339th. Supply.
               + United States. Army. Infantry. Machine Gun Company.
               + United States. Army. Michigan Infantry Regiment, 1st (1861-1865). Company B.
               + United States. Army. Signal Corps.
               + United States. Army. Transportation Corps, 167th.
+ United States. Army. Transportation Corps, 168th.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on March 13, 2006, 09:31:54 AM
See Pvt. Casmimer Nowak, Co. B  310 Engineers, 85th Div, US Army:
http://pages.prodigy.net/mvgrobbel/photos/nowak.htm

with other links to other personal stories of the Polar Bear Exp.
#1-
http://pages.prodigy.net/mvgrobbel/photos/polarbearstories.htm
#2
Huge list of photographs of the 310th Engineers which you can see and enjoy:
http://grobbel.org/pbma/photos/310th/album.htm

On this site you will find the following photo of Brig. Gen. W. Richardson who took over the command of Stewart in April of 1919 with the 310th Engineers....  He's in the sleigh.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/Richardson310Archangel1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/AGRBear/Richardson2.jpg)

Richardson's photo was found in the Alaska State Library collection.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on March 13, 2006, 10:36:08 AM
Michigan Infantry Regiment, 1st, Co. B :
>>Although it did not fight as a unit in World War I, its regiments campaigned in France and Russia. Custer Division Soldiers fought and died at Lorraine, St. Mihiel, Marbache, and in the Meuse-Argonne. In a little-known but fiercely fought campaign against the Bolsheviks in northwest Russia, the 339th Regiment, under Colonel George Stewart, distinguished itself against heavy odds and in severe Arctic conditions. The contributions of the "Polar Bear" Regiment are represented by the rainbow colored battle streamer which hangs from the Division colors, the blue and red flag which is carried opposite Old Glory and to the left of the Army colors by today’s color guard.<<
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on August 28, 2006, 01:14:20 PM
In the section FINAL CHAPTER, the thread about Did Wilson's 14 point plan  affect on the Allies and how it may or may not have directly or indirectly caused the execution of Nicholas II:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/board,22.0.html
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: griffh on August 29, 2006, 12:22:28 AM
Oh ABGBear what an incredible thread.  I think I mentioned on another thread Captain Marion Aten, D.F.C. and Arthur Orromont's book, "Last Train Over Rostov Bridge."  Captain Aten was an American who had flown for the R.A.F during the Great War and was recruited at the bar of the swank Automobile Club in London on Armistice Day to join the Intervention.  I will have to re-read the book to find out whether he seved with the British or American troops. 
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: RogerV on November 25, 2006, 06:58:04 PM
I am at a loss to remember where I read it, but some high-ranking American officer supposedly said something to the effect of "This country would swallow us!" when the question of greater American intervention in Russia was being discussed.  I want to say that it was Pershing himself who said it, but that's unlikely as I don't THINK he ever got to Russia, though I suppose it's possible he said it after hearing reports on conditions there.

Whoever said it was of course very correct-- just ask Napoleon.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on September 14, 2007, 01:19:46 PM
There must be more information about the Americans fighting the Bolsheviks which hasn't been mentioned here on this thread.

If you know of anything,  please add it here or let me know and I'll do my best to post it.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Mike on September 14, 2007, 03:14:01 PM
U.S. troops marching along Vladivostok's main street in 1919 (vintage Japanese postcard with a rare Far-East Republic stamp):
(http://sammler.ru/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=285424)
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Mike on September 14, 2007, 03:23:27 PM
American graves at Vladivostok cemetery, 1920:
(http://sammler.ru/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=277652)
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Belochka on September 14, 2007, 08:47:59 PM
U.S. troops marching along Vladivostok's main street in 1919 (vintage Japanese postcard with a rare Far-East Republic stamp):
(http://sammler.ru/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=285424)

Sorry to tell you but the stamp is not rare, just slightly unusual historic background attached to it. I have mutiple copies in various denominations and varieties.

Margarita
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Mike on September 15, 2007, 03:09:18 AM
Sorry to tell you but the stamp is not rare, just slightly unusual historic background attached to it.
Margarita
Thanks for the correction. I'm in no way disappointed: neither the stamp nor the card is mine.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: dmitri on September 16, 2007, 12:31:11 AM
Many non-Russians fought the Bolsheviks during the civil war in Russia. None of them had what was necessary to defeat those in power and they eventually one by one gave up a lost cause.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: NAOTMAA Fan on October 24, 2007, 05:46:07 PM
Just like Dmitri said, in the end all those who tried to help eventually returned to their own countries with little accomplishment. Canadians fought in Russia during the Civil War too, as we can see it didn't lead anywhere either...
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: isayhello2u on November 02, 2008, 02:57:33 AM
has anyone read The Siberian Fiasco by Clarence A. Manning ?
i'm wondering if its worth the purchase price.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Dmitri Minaev on November 12, 2008, 06:01:36 AM
There's a blog where a man posts the diary of his great grandfather who was in the American expeditionary forces in Russia: In Siberia (http://aefinsiberia.blogspot.com/). I enjoy it.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Imperial.Opal on November 14, 2008, 05:52:37 PM
 Australians also fought during the civil war campaign in 1919
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Constantinople on March 15, 2009, 05:10:43 PM
Yes I heard about the Australians in the Russian Civil war and thought what a strange expeirence that would be for them. I think it was a tank regiment but im not sure
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: wox24 on December 15, 2009, 08:04:08 AM
American??? only pro-forma or for their interests.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on December 27, 2009, 01:52:09 PM
American??? only pro-forma or for their interests.

Would you like to explain more fully as to what it is you're trying to imply/clearify/identify/add???

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Zecharia on December 27, 2009, 07:35:54 PM
How many know that there were American Troops in Russia who were sent to fight the Bolshviks during the Revolution and Civil War?

I'd like for this thread to be dedicated to these Americans.

I'd also like to learn alittle about the American involvement in the campaigns against the Bolsheviks.

Next to me I have the memoirs of a Private First Class Donald E. Carey who was from  Custer, Michigan, 12th Co.,  3rd Batt.  [p. 7] who with his group left  for Camp Mills then  under the flag Co. E. 399th  Infantry sailed on the HMT (His Majesty's transport) Northumberland, which had been docked in Hoboken, N.J., on 21 July 1918 9  [p. 25].  Reached England on 3 Aug. 1918.  Boarded the  HMT Nagory [p. 37],  a merchant ship that usually traveled between England and India and left port on the [27th Aug]  27th of Aug..

"Our American Expeditionary Force consisted of the 339th Infantry regiment; 1st Battalion, 310th engineers;  337th Ambulance Company; and 337 th Field Hospital Company, all under Col. George E. Steward, U.S. Army, commanding officer of the 339th Infantry."

With Carey's ship the Nagory were thee others , the Somali, Tydeus and the Czar plus a small convoy of four or five small British vessels.  In all there were about 4,477 men of all ranks detached from the 85th Division on the Nagory, Somali and Tydeus.

They took "A zigzag course ...across the North Sea,", to the Norwegian Sea and around Norway to Barents [sic] and into the White Sea... [pps 39-41] across the Dvina Bay and up the Dvina river.... passed Archangel and stoped on the east bank of the Dvina river at Smolny.  On 5 Sept Carey and the others stepped off the gangplank onto Russian soil.

FIGHTING THE BOLSHEVIKS, The Russian War Memoir of Private First Class Donald E. Carey  US Army, 1918-1919.



AGRBear




I found a similar story on this web page:
http://www.theyearindefense.com/land_forces/when-americans-fought-the-russians
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: wox24 on December 28, 2009, 04:23:05 AM
American??? only pro-forma or for their interests.

Would you like to explain more fully as to what it is you're trying to imply/clearify/identify/add???

AGRBear

My answer is in book by Anthony Sutton (see thread about Trotzky).
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on December 28, 2009, 04:59:47 PM
Can you just give us a sentence or two to explain to what you are referring to in Sutton's book?

AGRBear

Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on December 28, 2009, 05:03:26 PM
Zecharia,

When reading the various accounts,  one can quickly learn that the USA was weary of war and leery of getting involved with what was happening in Russia.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Zecharia on January 02, 2010, 12:19:23 AM
http://www.bsb-muenchen.de/mikro/lit187.pdf
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Constantinople on April 05, 2010, 10:37:09 AM
while not American, this site explains the involvement of Australians in the Russian Civil War on the side of the White Army

http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/north_russia/journal.asp
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 07, 2010, 09:45:52 AM
Because so many objectionable links exist in the web, I am requesting that posters offer a brief description of the links they are recommending and explain why. If we find they are anti-Semitic, for example, and the poster has not so identified it, we will assume they are trying to promote just that and take appropriate action.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Constantinople on April 08, 2010, 07:23:44 AM
I thought that not only did I explain the link but that it was self explanatory if you read the URL
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on July 18, 2010, 02:48:46 PM
Because so many objectionable links exist in the web, I am requesting that posters offer a brief description of the links they are recommending and explain why. If we find they are anti-Semitic, for example, and the poster has not so identified it, we will assume they are trying to promote just that and take appropriate action.

This would be appreciated.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Constantinople on July 18, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
what part of
this site explains the involvement of Australians in the Russian Civil War on the side of the White Army
 is hard to understand
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: AGRBear on July 18, 2010, 05:14:06 PM
You've sparked my interest.

  I was not aware of the Aussie's part. 

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread about them?  It would help your data being the main interest and prevent it  from getting lost in this thread about Americans fighting
the Bolsheviks in Russia.

AGRBear
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Constantinople on July 18, 2010, 05:45:27 PM
that might be a good idea but it is 1 40 am here so it will have to wait until tomorrow.  But it is an interesting story
Title: American Forces in Russia 1918-'19; Specifically PFC Carey & book "Fighting..."
Post by: SUOMI on August 16, 2014, 01:42:30 PM
 Suomi here,
I'm new, and find the posts & entire web-site refreshingly intelligent.
Some time back, I read a post on US forces sent to N. Russia 1918-1919.
Of particular interest was a post with the picture of PFC Carey, US Army (Ret.), & his memoir "Fighting the Bolsheviks".
I've a friend who is close to Carey's family.
This friend gave me something the family gave him many years ago:
His Dog Tag.
The Tag is thick aluminum, & one side has "Donald E. Carey U.S.A., 2051687" stamped into it.
The other side Carey used a hammer & sharp pin (or brad nail, etc.) to carefully tap in: "Co.E., 339 IR"
Six degrees of separation...
Respectfully, Suomi.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: SUOMI on August 17, 2014, 12:42:25 PM
A person sent a personal message to me, without any words.
I'm very new; perhaps I don't know how to retrieve it here.
Any registered user may contact me using my g-mail in my profile. (g-mail is my student mail site)
Have a nice day to all!
Regards, SUOMI.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Forum Admin on August 17, 2014, 01:05:37 PM
You have to have made 5 posts before you can read personal messages, to stop spammers from doing that.

Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: SUOMI on August 18, 2014, 07:39:43 PM
Five posts before reading any messages, in order to discourage Spammers.
What an excellent idea!
I knew this Forum had its share of wits about it...
Mostly, I research; which is how I came across APTM in the beginning.
Noticing the high level of intelligent conversation was a relief, compared to other sites.
Also, it's the reason I posted regarding PFC Carey and his Dog Tag (just so anyone would know they/it exists).
Well, I'll step aside so brighter minds have more room...
Regards, SUOMI.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Forum Admin on August 18, 2014, 08:59:40 PM
Everyone interested at any level of study is welcomed to post and participate here. You do not need to "step aside" for brighter minds. You are a welcomed participant. 
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: SUOMI on August 24, 2014, 10:31:06 AM
Thank you for being nice & hospitable!
I've an old CCCP silver coin necklace around here someplace; perhaps I'll dig it out.
If my memory is correct, there's 7-9 coins, but the earliest was minted 1922, I think.
Much to late for the Revolution, but in a time of want/need, someone had enough $$ to use silver as adornment.
With respect, SUOMI.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: Mike on August 25, 2014, 03:00:00 PM
in a time of want/need, someone had enough $$ to use silver as adornment.
Silver, unlike gold, was pretty cheap at that time. Such necklaces, crosses and other silver jewelry even weren't usually taken by train and street robbers.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: SUOMI on August 26, 2014, 09:42:01 AM
Thank you, Mike.
Perhaps that's the reason this necklace survived all original.
With respect, SUOMI.
Title: Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
Post by: SUOMI on October 25, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
Mr. Bear,
As you can see, I'm not an everyday user of this fantastic site.
However, as you seem educated on Co.E.339th IR, & PFC Carey,
I'm quite willing to post pics of his Dog-Tag, so all may look.
I check here now & then.
Perhaps, I'll find an answer...

PS- My whole family are Finns; scarce empathy towards Russia (especially after the Winter War) is ingrained in us from birth.