Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Myth and Legends of Survivors => Topic started by: Gaby on May 05, 2005, 07:52:15 PM

Title: A Chance?
Post by: Gaby on May 05, 2005, 07:52:15 PM
Hi, My name is Gaby and I am a highschool student doing a paper on Anastasia.  Before a I plunged into this project, I had no idea how many different aspects of the Romanovs I would love to cover.  Every sister is so interesting in their own way, Alexei is very intriguing, and of course there is the mysterious Rasputin.

Now for my question: Is there any chance that Anastasia survived?

Please understand that this is not me being a hopeful romantic, but I have visited innumberable sites (yes, I know, the lovely internet is just so reliable.. ::)) Some stating that Anastasia is definately alive, and others saying that there is no way that she survived.  What are the facts known, and what are your opinions on this?

gaby
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Lanie on May 05, 2005, 08:25:49 PM
No, absolutely none.  No one could have or would have survived July 17, 1918.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Ortino on May 05, 2005, 08:29:49 PM
None. She's dead.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: otmafan on May 06, 2005, 05:54:28 PM
It is sad, but how someone could have survived is impossible. Anyhow, check out the survivors thread for more info on this topic.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on May 06, 2005, 11:57:59 PM
Well, if any of the girls had escaped, they all could still be alive. Olga would be 110 at the end of the year. People DO live that long. But sadly, I agree it was near impossible for them to get away.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: ferngully on May 07, 2005, 05:38:10 AM
well i did hear a theory that if any of them survived, they melted into the background, never to be mentioned again (as a peasant), so they would propably been under stalin rule if they survived for long
sorry if it makes no sense :-[
selina                xxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: etonexile on May 07, 2005, 06:08:01 AM
I should imagine that any who escaped that cellar would have hopefully made their way out of the "Worker's Paradise"(Ayn Rand..."We The Living"...USSR in the early days)...but...I can't believe any did escape.... :'(
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: GD Alexandra on May 07, 2005, 07:40:55 PM
By the way we've been told they were killed and the disposal of the bodies, I believe there's no way that someone survived, although the fact that Anastasia (or Marie) & Alexei's bodies are still missing, feeds the "surviving theory"...
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: lexi4 on May 07, 2005, 08:53:33 PM
If you are interested in researching those who claimed to have been AN, there has been a lot of discussion about that on these threads. Anna Anderson, Eugenea Smith are a couple of the more famous cliamants. Read all you can and draw your own conclusions.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Laura Mabee on May 08, 2005, 10:33:15 AM
Hey Gaby!
This topic really gets people at eachothers necks, as we don't all agree. I personally am not sure about Anna Anderson, but I reallly highly doubt that it's her. If you want to take a peak at the arguement discussion about AA and AN, with a little of FS thrown in, check out
Question of Survivors Thread (http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia)
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Maria_Romanov_fan on May 08, 2005, 04:44:31 PM
Even if someone did make it through the attack they probably would have died soon afterword. It was very brutal.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RussiaSunbeam1918 on May 08, 2005, 07:42:42 PM
There was only one window she could have escaped through, and it was barred. I beleive she was the last of the sisters to die. (Wasn't Olga first?) So there could have been more than one person shooting at her at that point. The bodies were driven over, stabbed, crushed ect. I personally think it would be a blessing if she lives, but the chances are not just slim, they are not there at all.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Lanie on May 08, 2005, 07:56:11 PM
Read Fate of the Romanovs.  The murders were more grisly than first assumed.  No "Olga was shot first and died quickly" stuff.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RussiaSunbeam1918 on May 08, 2005, 08:03:52 PM
Ok.
Who wrote it?
I know people seem to say "Olga and Alexandra made the sign of the cross but didn't have time" because they didnt have time, i thought they might have died quicker.
Sorry.



Dana
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Lanie on May 08, 2005, 08:09:50 PM
Greg King and Penny Wilson.  I don't agree with some stuff that's in that  book but get it and at least look at the murder scene; it's what really happened.  None of this "OTM died quickly, blah blah blah" stuff.  It made me cry.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RussiaSunbeam1918 on May 08, 2005, 08:12:34 PM
Thanks Lanie! ;D
-Dana
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RussiaSunbeam1918 on May 08, 2005, 08:13:57 PM
 Is it the "Family Saga" one? There seems to be a few books with simmilar titles online....sorry to keep bothering you with questions lol.  :-[ :)
-DD
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Lanie on May 08, 2005, 08:21:18 PM
Quote
Is it the "Family Saga" one? There seems to be a few books with simmilar titles online....sorry to keep bothering you with questions lol.  :-[ :)-DD


Nope.  Just The Fate of the Romanovs.  Your local library should have a copy.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RussiaSunbeam1918 on May 08, 2005, 08:22:53 PM
Thanks again Lanie! ;D ;D ;D
-Dana
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Intrigued on May 11, 2005, 01:59:14 AM
I really wish that she did, but I really don't see how. But if anyone ever does find evidence that she did, I don't want to know. I like the way that it remains a mystery.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RealAnastasia on May 15, 2005, 10:18:07 PM
I'm convinced that Anastasia escaped, as well as Alexis. And if Nastasya didn't escape is most likely another of the girls, did. Nevertheless, none of them may be alive today. I'm sure about this, at least! And no...Alexis is not like Heino Tammet. They were very different...Look at his big round head and odd ears! ;D

  RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Lanie on May 15, 2005, 10:28:53 PM
Quote
I'm convinced that Anastasia escaped, as well as Alexis. And if Nastasya didn't escape is most likely another of the girls, did. Nevertheless, none of them may be alive today. I'm sure about this, at least! And no...Alexis is not like Heino Tammet. They were very different...Look at his big round head and odd ears! ;D

   RealAnastasia.


::) Why does everyone want to live in some fantasy world?  IMO it's rather disrespectful to the Imperial Family to say there's this "mystery".  They all died together; anyone reading about how they were murdered would realize it was impossible for someone to survive that, especially hemophiliac Alexei.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: londo954 on May 20, 2005, 10:17:24 PM
Its not a fantasy world Lanie...its a desire in us or rather an unwillingness to believe the horror of July 1917. That Nicholas and even Alexandra were killed we could take in stride but the fact that innocent children were so brutally murdered is even today hard to accept....and as the old saying goes everyone loves a good mystery. Of course they all perished but pschologically speaking it makes the horror eawsier by thinking that the small children recieved some mercy.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: casketkitten on May 26, 2005, 01:34:47 AM
I don't find it disrespectful to discuss, research and continue to explore all avenues of a murder.
It's not as if this was a personal and private anguish that some stranger drug into the limelight.
This family belongs to the ages and in a sense, to all of us. They are a big part of history as well as being the victims of a crime that still has some loose ends that need to be resolved.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: ferngully on May 26, 2005, 02:23:35 AM
what do you think the police and forensics do all the time?  ;)
selina                  xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Lights on June 02, 2005, 06:53:26 PM
Purely my personal opinion here, but after a lengthy study of the Cheka/mvd/NKVD during my college years, I think the chances of any of the Imperial Family's having escaped are at best miniscule. These people (Lenin, Trotsky, Yurovsky) had too much to lose should anyone escape. As much as we might wish it were not so, I believe the entire family perished in that cellar in Ekaterinburg.


































Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 02, 2005, 07:26:05 PM
I can't understand WHY some people here wants to stop all researchs (serious researchs and not ramblings of weak minds) in Romanov's murder. They seems to be involved themselves in the case! They jump out in all claimants threads to stand that all those people (like me) who thinks that one of the IF could have been rescued, or that they have doubts related to Anna Anderson's case are fool, stupid, fantasycing people.

 We are trying to do some research about things that are not clear for us, and it's not fair to jump out shouting: "Stop here! You believes in Easter Bunny and fairy tales! None of them survived. So, we don't discuss it any more! "... :o WOW! Let me said I'll keep discussing the "pretenders" cases until I want to, or until I convince myself that all of them were fake. I don't stop to be interested in this, just for someone shout to me that I can't be!  This is totalitarian, and intolerant. I you are tired of this topic, simply, don't get into it. You are not forced to do it. I don't buy a book I don't want to read, and don't see a movie that I know I will dislike.

      Happyly: other members of the board, are polite and inquiring minds, and they don't believe all that journalist and some books said to them. Their minds are open, and they are ready to share with all of us, all the infos they have. Even if they could not believe in pretenders, or believe in some of their claims, or  believe in Anna Anderson and not in Magda Boodts, or believe in Marga Boodts and not in Anna Anderson, they are always there, ready to discuss facts, and to know more and more things. They are great people...They have an historian mind, and they would be able to do research job in a future, to write a good History book. If you are an historian, you must be able yourself, to not accept things so easily. Things that today seems to be the truth, tomorrow would be proove that they were fake.  ::)

RealAnastasia.

P.S: Oh! Beg you pardon...In this thread, it's supposed to not discuss anything related to pretenders. Sorry, Bob.  :-/

 
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RussiaSunbeam1918 on June 02, 2005, 08:49:56 PM
       This is just my oppinion, but I don't think that they could have survived. I mean, the chances of children like Anastasia and Alexei (I guess Anastasia was accually a young lady.) being able to escape, are slim to none in my mind. Especially Alexei because if he was hit at all, the bleeding would be severe.

       Plus, even if they did escape, think of the trauma that would remain with them. WOuld someone be able to live with that? And how would they remain hidden? Someone would probably recognize them sooner or later.

       I do not want to offend anyone who beleives that there is a chance on their escape. Personally, I don't beleive the claiments out there, but if you do, I still respect your oppinion.

-Dana-
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Tsarevna_Olga on June 03, 2005, 09:39:29 AM
I think that somepople of Romanov is survived,but I think that wasn't Anastasia....because her body is identified
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: ferngully on June 03, 2005, 04:13:15 PM
depends on your view ya see ;D some people believe it was marie and some people think it could be anastasia
selina               xxxxxxxx
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: etonexile on June 03, 2005, 06:11:16 PM
Y'all can believe in whatever you want...but logic doesn't lead one to believe that any in the IF survived...the small, "Shooting Gallery"(this is a term that we British would call "irony")...the cellar where the IF died...the people who claimed to have killed them at a specific time and place were red-hot Bolshi devotees....AND....drum roll...WAIT-FOR-IT...the DNA of the said remains match known relations of the Czar's family...but I can see the point of the romantic hopefuls...a mystery aeroplane might have landed...just-in-time... to wisk one daughter away...or a vicious,blood-thursty Soviet gunman might have had a change of heart and carried a GD to a peasant hut to be nursed back to health...I think I might be getting myself geared up to write 'Harlequin Romances'....
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Michelle on June 04, 2005, 04:02:11 PM
I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with RealAnastasia.  I'm sick and tired of people here using patronizing crap when addressing the others who are concerned with this issue.  That to me is what is disrespectful.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 05, 2005, 06:24:08 PM
Thank you, Michelle. You are a rare soul, and you have a really warm heart.  :)

Nevertheless, other people here, who didn't believe in any survivors stories, is very respectful with us, believers.  Rissiasunbeam1918 is one of them. Even if no believer, she must understand that there are people who believes. This is really good, but not always easy to do! I don't know many persons who had the courage, and the tolerance to said: "I don't have your ideas, but it's all right that you have them.

RealAnastasia.

P.S: I didn't answer before now for I was travelling to another city of my country (Rosario) to celebrate the 90 Birthay of my mother's Great-Aunty. And guess what? She told me that, when she was little and young and she had other 7 sisters, people knew them in their niegborhood as...OTMA! They dressed all alike and were beatiful, with deep blue eyes.  ::)
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: etonexile on June 05, 2005, 07:49:14 PM
I'm often torn....should I just refrain from threads which seem rubbish...or make a comment....I think...at least I HOPE....that we can all be adults and discuss issues without rancour on a personal level....none of us has all the answers....but we must all have a common love and interest in the subject of the IF to be here in the first place...If I have given offense to any...then I am most grieviously sorry....and ask your pardon.....
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Michelle on June 05, 2005, 09:57:47 PM
Thank you RealAnastasia!  You're an awesome person! :D

etonexile---I wasn't talking about you specifically, but you are constantly making these kinds of comments as are many others.  Of course that's fine if you don't believe in survivors, but please don't treat those who do like little children who have no brains.  It is very disrespectful and rather unappreciated.  I'm sure you're a good guy in person and I agree with you on other subjects (not to mention you're a Romanov fan).  So please don't take this too personally as it applies to everyone and not just you (I'm just replying to your post).  It would just be appreciated if everyone could refrain from the usual bantering in the future.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 06, 2005, 10:02:19 PM
Thank you Michelle! My face is all rosy after reading your sweet post...As for Etonexile, I wasn't speaking about your posts. You are really nice...And as someone said not long ago,   we are almost a great family here. All us are interested in IF, and that's wonderful. We may have different oppinions, but we have the same interest and thast's important for me.

Long live "Alexander Palace Site and Forums"! Long live the Imperial Family!...And long live poor Bob, who has to fight for we members, don't become too wild with each other!  ;D

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Michelle on June 06, 2005, 10:09:30 PM
Aww!  Thank you RealAnastasia!!!  I'm glad I was able to make someone's day a rosy one!!!  You and I always have such interesint discussions too. ;)
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: xX_Mashka_Xx on June 11, 2005, 02:01:50 PM
I highly doubt there is any chance at all that anyone survived. You may not want to believe the horrors of that night in the cellar, but it's a reality, and I'm saddened to say that similar things happen in the world often.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: etonexile on June 12, 2005, 10:10:55 AM
Quote
I highly doubt there is any chance at all that anyone survived. You may not want to believe the horrors of that night in the cellar, but it's a reality, and I'm saddened to say that similar things happen in the world often.


Yes...As bad as the fate of the IF....to think that the butchery of innocents goes on today....it is just painful....
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: lexi4 on June 12, 2005, 10:22:45 PM
Quote

Yes...As bad as the fate of the IF....to think that the butchery of innocents goes on today....it is just painful....

Well said.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Robby on July 20, 2005, 12:07:35 PM
I know that someone of the sisters due survive it, and it was Maria Romanov, when the dead bodies were thrown in a truck, a trainowner saved Maria. She lived further as Granny Alina, Granny Alina told her children her ascape 20 years before the information that Yurovski gave. But Granny Aline Never claimend to be a Romanov, she never told her children wich Romanov she was, but now Anastasia's bondes are found and Maria's bones are gone, the're sure it was Maria. Photo's of Granny Alina and Maria are exactly the same. And, oldo it was not headline news, there are books about it. and sites. I KNOW WHAT HAPPEND TO HER EVEN IF YOU NOT BELIEVE ME I KNOW IT!
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Forum Admin on July 20, 2005, 12:11:12 PM
Praytell. HOW can you know what happened. What  specific EVIDENCE do you possess to support this claim? Please let us know. I am quite interested, especially since you post from the Netherlands...
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: lexi4 on July 20, 2005, 02:15:06 PM
Quote
I know that someone of the sisters due survive it, and it was Maria Romanov, when the dead bodies were thrown in a truck, a trainowner saved Maria. She lived further as Granny Alina, Granny Alina told her children her ascape 20 years before the information that Yurovski gave. But Granny Aline Never claimend to be a Romanov, she never told her children wich Romanov she was, but now Anastasia's bondes are found and Maria's bones are gone, the're sure it was Maria. Photo's of Granny Alina and Maria are exactly the same. And, oldo it was not headline news, there are books about it. and sites. I KNOW WHAT HAPPEND TO HER EVEN IF YOU NOT BELIEVE ME I KNOW IT!


I have read the book A Princess in the Family. There is no proof that Granny Alina was  Maria. So please, if you have more information post your sources.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Elisa - Ella on July 20, 2005, 03:20:48 PM
I think, that Alexej and Marie, Anastasia OR.... Ana Demidova survived!!
I read in a book that a cousin of Ana Demidova met a man who says that he is the stepsister of Ana Demidova, he also say that Ana Demidova died during the war world 2!!! And that she had every night nighmares, she also smokes and had a alcohol problem... I dont know that it is true but, it could be that Alexej and Ana Demidova survived.
(I'm really really sorry if this has already been told about Ana Demidova) But I am shure that Alexej survived! the man who later calls F.G. Semjonov is (i think so) Alexej. But the other body that missed could be Marie, Anastasia OR Ana Demidova.
About Anna Anderson--> She is a big liar!!! so she is NOT Anastasia!!!
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: xX_Mashka_Xx on July 22, 2005, 10:36:02 AM
Quote
I KNOW WHAT HAPPEND TO HER EVEN IF YOU NOT BELIEVE ME I KNOW IT!



How can you possibly know what  happened. No one knows.All we can do is speculate, but absolutely no one can say they know for sure what happened. Only the Romanovs know, but they're gone. We'll never know for sure what happened.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: GD Alexandra on July 22, 2005, 10:49:42 AM
Quote
All we can do is speculate


Exactly, all we can do is speculate and even if we've got good evidence we'll never know what exactly happened that night, reconstruction it's not an easy fact. You see, it has been like  80 or 90 years since that terrible night and nobody stills knows what happened...like xX_Mashka_Xx said "only the Romanovs know"
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Mashka_Fan on July 22, 2005, 04:57:09 PM
I respect everyone's views on this topic and would like to share mine. I personally do not believe that any member of the family survived that night, though one will never know for sure I suppose. :-/

To me, it seems unlikely that anyone could have survived such a horrific death. I especially find it VERY unlikely that Alexei would have survived such a thing as he was hemophiliac. Also, I really don't think (though I certainly don't know for sure) that any of the children would have wanted to survive. I sure wouldn't have! They were all quite young at the time, and to be the sole survivor of the horrid death your family went through in which you were a witness? Just what I think.

I also highly doubt that Ana Demidova survived, because doesn't it say in a book (I forgot which one) that she began to scream and run back and forth, and then she was stabbed about thirty times until she finally died? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe I've read that in several accounts.

Well, that was just my personal views. Wouldn't it be nice if the Romanovs could just come back to life long enough to tell us what really happened? I agree with xX_Mashka_Xx and Alexanastasia when they say 'only the Romanovs know'.

P.S. I have also heard and read that two of the bodies were burned. Isn't that the answer to where the two missing bodies are?
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Elisa - Ella on July 23, 2005, 03:35:55 PM
P.S. I have also heard and read that two of the bodies were burned. Isn't that the answer to where the two missing bodies are?[/quote]

Yes I also think that it is the answer that there two missing bodies are. because nobody ever found the rests of a campfire where the 'body's were burned'.
so it is impossible.
I also agree with xX_Mashka_Xx and Alexanastasia
that only the romanovs know whats really happened that night...
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Margarita Markovna on July 26, 2005, 12:00:23 PM
Quote
Why would their killers just only let Anastasia go, I don't think it likely that they would keep just one grand duchess alive they were determined to murder the lot of them that night, unless she did escape but I don't think she would have wanted to leave her family behind although anything's possible


Right. I think they all would have wanted to die together.

In my heart of hearts I know they all died that night but I still love looking at pictures of the claimants (especially Granny Alena- the resemblance is just wow; except Anna Anderson because I think she was just a crazy old lady) and thinking if their stories are possible at all.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Robby on July 26, 2005, 02:01:37 PM
I don't think Anastasia had survived the murder.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Margarita Markovna on July 26, 2005, 07:54:37 PM
Quote
Anna Anderson looked more like Tatiana but what I can't understand is when close relatives of the IF met Anna Anderson surely they would of been able to tell if it was Anastasia or not, I believe I would be able to identify if someone is or not a close relative of mine


I agree with both things- that she looked more like Tatiana (although IMO Tatiana was prettier) and that her family would have recognized her. I would be able to tell my close relatives in a second.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: granduchess_leah on August 06, 2005, 06:39:05 AM
[not sure there has been many rumors about her and her brother Alexei and older sister maria surriving aswell but my guess is that she died along with the rest of her family but i guess will never know
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: OTMA on August 07, 2005, 07:42:34 PM
even though shes didnt survive i still like to believe she did its so sad. every day i wonder how could someone live with themselves after killing another human being
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Richard_Schweitzer on August 08, 2005, 11:35:04 PM
I hope allof you know that G D Olga (Tsar's sister) did in fact visit Frau Unbeknant, more than once. Whoever she visited was surely not of peasant (or commoner stock).She sent her a gift and wrote to her as well.
Title: Re: A Chance?
Post by: Georgiy on August 09, 2005, 04:32:24 PM
Why shouldn't she visit or write to a commoner? OTMA themselves played with peasant children when they were at Mogilev.