Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: sydguy71 on May 06, 2005, 06:16:32 AM

Title: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: sydguy71 on May 06, 2005, 06:16:32 AM
Hello,
Can anyone recommend a book that covers the later years of Dona. I am especially interested in the years of WW1 till her death. Any info would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 06, 2005, 09:06:21 AM
Because she led a fairly uneventful life herself, any information on her is usually found in bios about Wilhelm II. Lamar Cecil published a huge 2 volume work and the 2nd one focused on the period from about 1900 (I think) until the end.  
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 12, 2005, 04:14:51 PM
Dona was in many ways a somewhat pathetic figure. She must have started off her life as the wife of the future Kaiser with a huge inferiority complex due to the general attitude (especially as verbalized by Queen Victoria) that she was not so suitable for Willy. Perhaps as as result, she appeared a bit hauty and was not very kind or accomdating to her mother in law, Vicky.

She found herself frequently under great stress in trying to keep Wilhelm calm and his distractors at bay. In fact, during some of the most crucial moments prior to WWI, she screened people from seeing the Kaiser and some important decisions and timing were lost.

The war weighed on her immensely. She had come to a position of great power and wealth and the fear of losing it and then the reality of having lost it was too much for her to bear. Soon after the confligration, she died of, in my opinion, a very broken heart and lack of will to live.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 12, 2005, 07:00:08 PM
Dona just annoys me to no end (usually).  :-/  Perhaps because she was _very_ unkind to my 2nd favorite (Vicky) and was not the wife that Willy originally wanted (Ella). I just think Ella would've been such a greater helpmate. Dona was just disastrous in feeding his ego and never standing up to him. Mostly it's because of her treatment of Vicky though--she could just be downright cruel to her. In the beginning it could've been shyness but within too many years Dona realized that she would soon be 'above' Vicky and proceeded to act as such. It especially enrages me as Vicky was the one who _fought_ for her when the Hohenzollerns looked down on her as a match. Dona's father had been her and Fritz's great friend and if Dona had had more character or a kindlier one Vicky's life could've been so much easier. I mean Vicky soured her relations with the Court and the Bismarckians ever further to 'go to bat' for Willy & Dona and what was her repayment? Decades of slights and rebuffs.

I think Dona totally couldn't adjust the her new situation. She'd never been overly concerned with the wealth of her position (she frowned on too much fashion or style in dress or jewels) but she had taken pride in it and had trouble adjusting. You'd think she may have been happier--Wilhelm ironically dealth with the exile _much_ better. She would've had him more to herself than ever, been a comfort and helpmate, could've led a simpler life. Also I think she just really missed Germany--I don't think she herself was prohibited from returning, but she wouldn't have gone without Wilhelm. I think the major blow was the suicide of her youngest, and favorite, son Joachim. She died not too many months after that.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2005, 11:55:34 AM
Here's what I've gleaned so far:

--towards the end of the war she suffered a mild heart attack (and possible mild stroke); since she and Wilhelm were in different area after the abdication was announced he had to leave for the Netherlands w/o her (his son Eitel Fritz had telegrammed that she was well) as it was imperative to leave when he did
--recovering and w/Wilhelm in the Netherlands she didn't leave the Neue Palais (Victoria Louise was with her) even though EF tried to get her to come w/him to villa Ingenheim and out of Berlin; Dona's main concern (as always) was with Wilhelm and the fact that he was 'alone in his misfortune'; she was naturally anxious to join him
--in less than 2 weeks she was able to; escorted by soldiers from EF's regiment (dressed as civilians) she joined Wilhelm in Amerongen on 28 Nov (the same day he officially signed his abidcation document)
--stress over calls for Wilhelm's trial as a war criminal (rather tepidly supported by Lloyd George but adamantly opposed by George V) added to her troubles though Wilhelm himself seemed unconcerned; 'increasingly inclined to trust no race but her own, she was sure her husband's life was in danger' and spent a good deal of time weeping. Dona belived that the forces of evil had won and that, eventually, someone would swoop in and snatch him and he would share the Tsar's fate. By December her fears were such that she wrote a farewell letter to their children (I guess figuring she would share in his imprisonment or worse rather than be separated?)
--in March 1920 they moved to Doorn; the Kaiser adjusted remarkably well--his famous moustache grew out and greyed and he grew a beard;dressed as an English gentleman; he puttered around the garden, took walks, had teas, read, etc... He seems to have almost flourished away from being 'Kaiser' while his wife worried and seemed to have no more purpose. Of course the Kaiser was aided in his peace of mind by the fact that he was able to lay the blame for every trial and misfortune on someone else's shoulders and none on himself--he even blamed the German people for casting him aside and took a rather 'grim satisfaction' in the harshness of the treaty of Versailles as a reward for disloyalty.
--not long after their Doorn arrival, Joachim and the Crown Prince visited and it was not a good situation. The Kaiser was irritated (as usual) by his sons while Dona was distressed at this disunion (which ruined the reunion she'd so longed for) and by the increasing rift between father and eldest son and father and youngest son.  The Kaiser was especially disgusted with Joachim's carousing and heavy gambling and laid a good part of blame on the influence of the Crown Prince. Disillusioned by the aftermath of the war, in debt, estranged from his wife, Joachim returned to Germany and less than a month later he shot himself.
--As J. had been her favorite, Dona was told it was a hunting accident but it seemed she knew the truth and 'was never the same again' though she seemed outwardly calm. Her health began to worsen. Already at Amerongen she had been uanble to walk very far unaided. Now she became weaker and apathetic and was mostly confined to her wheelchair. (Reminiscent of Empress Alexandra w/her heart troubles) She had trouble sleeping and once, when her son Auwi was looking over her, she called out goodbye to her children. The family feared she didn't have long but she remarkably hung on for a few more months
--By Feb 1921 when she and Wilhelm had their 40th wedding anniversary. In April, with Wilhelm and their son Adalbert at her side, she slipped into a coma and passed away. She had left a requst to be buried in Germany which the government allowed as long as Wilhelm didn't accompany it.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 14, 2005, 02:58:21 PM
Thanks GDElla for the great detail. I too feel little sympathy for this woman who treated dear Vicky so badly, even as Vicky lay dying in 1901. Dona is a good example of "what goes 'round, comes 'round" and she really reaped what she has sown.

Sadly, she may have been in an even better position to work with Vicky and carry on Vicky's legacy than Vicky herself. But, Dona seemed to have squandered her opportunities.

I heard Dona was a bit of a fanatical church builder, sponsoring and funding a great many church buildings in and around Berlin. Any facts on this note? Thanks!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 14, 2005, 05:02:56 PM
I believe you're right about the churches. She was very religious--really didn't care for any religion but her own as well. Her Court was very narrow-minded and overly pious. She was held up by Bismarck I believe as the examplar of German womanhood with the focus on Children, Church and Kitchen. (Of course his quote was in German). While I don't care for her brand of over-religiosity, she did do a lot of charity work. She just didn't have the intellectual capacity and concern for detail that Vicky did.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: RickV on May 14, 2005, 09:53:27 PM
Can anyone detail her aversions to Vicky? I know I read here of her (obviously spitefully) informing Vicky that their daughter was named for QV and not Vicky herself. Anything else someone can relate? And I agree - she got her comeuppence in the death of her son and the tragedy of her husband's abdication and exile. I know little of her, but she couldn't hold a candle to Vicky!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 15, 2005, 11:45:05 PM
Wasn't around much today but here's what I managed to put together quickly

1889: Would write to Sophie that she saw little of W or D 'I have only seen William and Dona at the funeral ceremonies [for Fritz], but neither of them have taken any notice of me since.'

When during the year following her widowhood she would've enjoyed something to keep her busy, especially charity work, she was 'inexpressibly annoyed and offended at the patronage of the Red Cross and Fatherland Women's Association passing into Dona's hand, who knows nothing of taking care of the sick and wounded. For years and years I have reckoned on being the Empress Augusta's successor in these things. William simply tells me that Dona had arranged with the Empress Augusta already last year that she was to be her successor in everything, therefore simply ignoring me and leaving me out. I feel this a great want of respect and civility...you know she [Empress Augusta] turned away of late years from Papa and me and took up with Dona and Wilhelm.'

And later that year 'if only William and Dona behaved differently, my life would be less sad.' Vicky enjoyed her other DIL Irene much better and often visited in Kiel.

1891: 'I visited Dona in the afternoon, she was on her sofa. [Having just given birth to Joachim] I offered to hold the baby during the christening but Dona informed me that William did not wish it!'

1890-1: had to take all kinds of abuse from Dona over Sophie's conversion as W&D were convinced that Vicky had a hand in it.

1891: finds her 'very grand and stiff and cold and condescending' when she visits Vicky but Vicky also accepts that perhaps it's partly due to shyness

As Victoria Louise would write in her autobiography she and her siblings weren't close to Vicky. This could partly explain why:
EF to Sophie 1897: 'Willy and Dona paid me a visit with the 3 eldest boys, who were very merry and seemed quite at their ease. They wanted to stay a bit with me, but their Mama would not let them! It is a pity that she is so jealous and dislikes them coming near me, but she does....'

There's more that I'll try to get to later. The general theme seems to be that Vicky and Dona couldn't warm to each other. Dona was probably intimidated by Vicky's intellect as she herself didn't have any intellectual curiosity it seems. She had no real interests outside her family and religion. The charity work she undertook she did in a competent fashion but Vicky was always striving to improve various institutions. Dona was more status quo. Vicky was probably correct in adding that there was a jealousy factor there and Dona enjoyed usurping her MIL's prerogatives. It's a shame that it came at a time when Vicky was so down in her widowhood and could've used some of the extra activities. Also the fact that there seems to have been a real purposeful attempt to keep the children away from Vicky and her liberal ideas. I also don't wonder if Dona had a problem with the intense relationship between Wilhelm and his mother. Wilhelm seems to have loved Vicky deeply and yet could yo-yo between consideration and extreme meanness and almost real cruelty towards her. We've discussed this in other threads but since Wilhelm was the main focus of her life, Dona wouldn't have liked any 'competition' for being the main woman in Wilhelm's life.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Kevin From Australia on May 17, 2005, 04:34:53 AM
There is a three volume memoir of Ursula Countess von Eppinghoven that came out in 1909 published in New York - Ursula was (supposedly) one of Dona's lady-in-waitings and the memoirs are all about her time at Court.  They can only be described as gossipy, but are very interesting reading, including about Dona's misscarriage in 1895.  Although it only goes up to about 1899, it is still interesting reading.  She talks a lot about how Dona felt being left behind when Wilhelm went off on his travels.
The American publisher was Henry W Fischer & the English publisher William Heinemann.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Mgmstl on May 17, 2005, 09:28:09 PM
It is all very sad, how Dona treated Vicky, since it was Fritz & Vicky who were good friends of her father, who thought she would be a good wife for Willie, and perhaps help him in some ways.  They did a great deal to make the marriage possible, as wasn't the old Emperor & Bismarck, against the marraige??  Look at how Willy behaved after Fritz died, and after Vicky died.
Shameful, and not to mention the hell he gave his mother while she was alive.  I think Dona had to compete in arena in which she had no confidence, fashion, intelligence, allure, court functions, and to add the influence of Fritz's mother, the Empress Augusta.

I have always admired Vicky, so much, for her intelligence, and her heart.  She is one of my favorites. She is another one I would have loved to know and spend time with.  Such brilliance, and too bad she had no influence with her son, to think how different the world could have been if she did.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: cimbrio on May 19, 2005, 05:30:00 AM
All I've ever heard about Dona after the end of WWI was her deep sorrow not just for her husband after being kicked out iof Germany, but also of her deep sorrow due to her son's suicide in 1920, which apparently hastened her own death a year later... I don't know how close she and Willie were at this point; didn't he marry his second wife a few months later? I've read his second wife (can't remember her name just now) had lost her husband during the war.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 19, 2005, 08:54:24 AM
Apparently William and Dona became much closer during this short period. He'd always been the center of her world, now without the cares he'd previously had he was able to spend more time with her. When she died he was apparently heartbroken and had her room sealed off (which apparently it still is if people visit Doorn) and would visit it every day for the rest of his life. His daughter Victoria Louise really worried about him in the immediate aftermath as he seemed very depressed and lonely. This could partly be why he remarried fairly quickly to Hermine of Reuss. None of Wilhem's children liked her or the marriage very much though they wanted their father to be happy. I think there may have been some scenes over this but I'll have to get my books out. She was seen as somewhat of a fortune and fame hunter I think. Nonetheless she was good to Wilhelm and they enjoyed a happy marriage until he died. She had been the widow of a minor prince in the house of Reuss (named, naturally , Henry but I'm not sure which one) and her young son had written to the Kaiser in exile. He extended an invitation and thus the relationship began. After the war she became a Nazi sympathizer and wound up dying in Frankfurt (?) but I'll have to get the exact information. I'm not sure if she was imprisoned by the Russians or just died because of illness/poverty.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: kmerov on May 19, 2005, 12:21:09 PM
GDella, thanks for the great info...
Who arranged the marriage of Wilhelm and Dona?
When they married her family were (kinda) exiled, and wasnt there a more suitable princess for him since he was the heir of the empire? Sorry for going off topic..
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: bluetoria on May 19, 2005, 01:15:51 PM
Wilhelm himself chose Dona as his bride & at first his grandfather, the Emperor, was very much against the match with such a lower-born person.  Eventually the Emperor gave way.
I think Wilhelm chose Dona because she flattered his ego & never contradicted him.  

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 16, 2005, 12:56:47 PM
I was just wondering what you all thought of Dona. I've read conflicting things about her. Most sources state that she was a vacuous, stupid, jealous sort of woman, but if you look on page 95 (paperback) of Charlotte Zeepvat's Queen Victoria's Family, you can read about someone describing her daughter, Viktoria Luise: 'She possessed generous and kindly impulses and was an ardent champion of the distressed . . . following the example of her mother the Empress - one of the kindest hearted women I ever met.'

So Dona was kind??

Page 92 of the said book also mentions how her family 'worshipped her'. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 17, 2005, 02:04:28 PM
Queen Victoria did not like Dona at all....
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 17, 2005, 02:12:08 PM
Yes, I remember that. Didn't she call Dona a 'poor, insignificant princess'? Vicky didn't like her either.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on July 17, 2005, 03:02:58 PM
QV called her that in a fit of pique. Dona was her great-niece (granddaughter of QV's half-sister Feodora). She was all for the match (since Ella wasn't going to marry Wilhelm) but then when Dona started acting 'uppity' and nasty towards Vicky, QV's opinion sourced on her. She called her 'insignificant' I believe because of how Dona was forgetting that she came from a poor, humble background (her father, a great friend of Fritz & Vicky, having lost the Schleswig-Holstein duchies) and putting on imperious airs.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Marc on July 17, 2005, 07:08:16 PM
Maybe she was called insignificant because of her Samsoe ancestry witch caused a problem when she was still considering to be a bride of future Kaiser!From Wilhelm's biography:''Wilhelm was seeking to conceal a good deal about dona's suitability as a bride of a future German Emperor.Was she actually qualified by birth?One of her grandmothers had been  a Hohenlohe-Langenburg princess,witch was considered GOOD ENOUGH;but the other was a mere Danish countess(read Dannenskoild-Samsoe) and not really of a lineage required for a Royal House.It took the old Emperor NINE MONTHS  to overlook the slight inequality of birth while the appropriate certifications were drawn up!Dona was TAKEN to Queen Victoria,WHO APPROVED!Empress Vicky HAD RESERVATIONS about an early marriage and still hoping that her son would see something of world first...''It was the same with Sissy when her Arenberg(as a meditized and not  anymore a rulling House) ancestry was conserned!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: bluetoria on July 18, 2005, 06:32:29 AM
Here's what some people said of her:

Vicky 1880:

"She is so sweet and sensible a girl that she must win all hearts."

On her wedding day:

"Sweet Dona looked quite lovely – so sweet and self-possessed not shy and yet so modest and gentle."

Queem Victoria 1880:

"Has a sweet winning smile…She looks thoroughly amiable but rather delicate I should say…[she] has beautiful teeth."

Queen Victoria 1899:

"Very nice and kind and not stiff at all."
Queen Victoria 1881

"You think dear Dona so pretty. We do not; nor do others. But sweet, gentle, graceful and ladylike. "

Marie Mallet:

"Insignificant & boring"

The governess, Alice Topham:

"One of the kindest-hearted women I ever met."

Nicholas II 1897:

"She did her best to be pleasant but looked awful in sumptuous gowns completely lacking in taste; in particular the hats she wore in the evenings were frightful; heard here that the Empress is completely under the influence of her court ladies."
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 18, 2005, 11:30:59 AM
Thanks for all the info, guys. Dona, it seemed, was perfectly amenable to her family, but imperious to other people, especially Vicky.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 19, 2005, 09:53:48 AM
She was an absolute witch toward Vicky. Dona restricted her children from developing any meaningful relationship with Vicky which hurt Vicky greatly. This, among other things, was a wedge that was totally caused by Dona that never was repaired.

Dona also meddled in matters well over her head; she frequently stood between William and important situations to "protect" him from the rigors of his responsibilities.

How did she get the nickname Dona in the first place?

While it seems she was not great person on many levels, especially given the power she had and what she could have done with it, one legacy remains which is quite interesting. Kaiser Wilhelm was the first ever foreign head of state to visit the "Holy land" and he did much to establish German relations in the area. he built a Lutheran Church and hospital in Jerusalem as a haven for the poor and needy. The hospital named for Dona--the Auguste Viktoria Hospital--remains today.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Martyn on July 19, 2005, 12:23:11 PM
Quote
She was an absolute witch toward Vicky. Dona restricted her children from developing any meaningful relationship with Vicky which hurt Vicky greatly. This, among other things, was a wedge that was totally caused by Dona that never was repaired.

Dona also meddled in matters well over her head; she frequently stood between William and important situations to "protect" him from the rigors of his responsibilities.

How did she get the nickname Dona in the first place?

While it seems she was not great person on many levels, especially given the power she had and what she could have done with it, one legacy remains which is quite interesting. Kaiser Wilhelm was the first ever foreign head of state to visit the "Holy land" and he did much to establish German relations in the area. he built a Lutheran Church and hospital in Jerusalem as a haven for the poor and needy. The hospital named for Dona--the Auguste Viktoria Hospital--remains today.



Yes HerrKaiser, I think that Dona's bad behaviour towards Vicky is the thing that puts her beyond the pale.

She can be forgiven her poor taste, her assumed airs and her, at times vindictive nature, but her nastiness towards Vicky is hard to forgive, especially as you say that it damaged the latter's relationship with her grandchildren.

Of course, in all matters Dona took her cue from her husband, so the assumption must be that he approved of her bad behaviour.......
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 19, 2005, 05:01:59 PM
When Dona's only daughter Viktoria Luise was born in 1892 (?), didn't Dona go out of her way to tell Vicky that Viktoria was not named for her? That's just plain mean. A remember reading about a visit Vicky made to England in the 1880s or 90s and she was writing to someone about how she loved spending time with Beatrice's children because she never got to see her 'Berlin' grandchildren.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on July 19, 2005, 07:53:40 PM
HerrKaiser, Martyn, Prince_Lieven I agree with you all. Much can be overlooked if one has a basically kindly nature--not dressing fashionably, unflattering hairstyles, etc... I think she not only took her cue from Wilhelm but she aggravated it. Wilhelm's relationship was a real love/hate and Dona seemed to mostly latch onto the latter. I think she was jealous in a way of the hold his mother had over him. Also, Dona fit the way the hidebound Court (esp Bismarck) thought a future Empress should be and it was everything Vicky wasn't. For someone who seems to have some insecurity issues, having her ego stroked must've been powerful. Those around her certainly didn't mind poisoning her against Vicky.

And she did indeed go out of her way to inform Vicky that VL wasn't named after her.  >:(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 20, 2005, 07:04:02 AM
I wonder if Dona ever noticed that Wilhelm never really lost his devotion to Ella . . . Did she even care? How did she get on with the Hesse cousins, them being German as opposed to English?

By the way, Herr Kaiser, you say she was an absolute 'witch' towards Vicky. I think you're just one letter off! : - )
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: edwardcharles on July 24, 2005, 09:03:48 AM
I have read some of the forums here and I keep reading that Dona treated her mother in law empress vicky quite badly what was the reason for this? was it because the kasier hated his mother so Dona did the same or was their another reason for it? :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: tea_rose on July 24, 2005, 01:00:32 PM
 Dona was a very "everything that Wilhelm thinks and does is right" sort of person. She was not well-read or imaginative and basically used Wilhelm as a template for her opinions. Vicky was quite the opposite; intellectual, passionate and not easily led. These qualities made her life in Prussia difficult from the beginning. Wilhelm had emphatic and loudly expressed differences with his mother from adolescence on and Dona followed his lead as ever.

 When Wilhelm and Dona became engaged, Vicky saw that Dona was rather submissive and unintellectual. However, she thought that Dona might be a positive influence who wouldn't egg Wilhelm on (as did his sister Charlotte). Alas, Dona simply echoed his views in a minor key.

 It's not surprising the two did not become friends as they had nothing in common. It was a little more sad that Vicky did not get on with her mother-in-law who was a bit silly and preoccupied with clothes but who was also a liberal.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 24, 2005, 01:04:07 PM
Part of it was that. Also, Dona was simply a spiteful, jealous woman who was extremely contemptuous of Vicky. Dona, herself being the uber-housfrau, thought that Vicky was far too English. She was very elitist, and thought the idea of Moretta marrying Sandro of Battenberg (a match Vicky had championed) was a stupid idea. Queen Victoria, for her part, thought Dona was a 'poor, insignificant little princess.' When Dona's youngest child Viktoria Luise was born, Dona went out of her way to tell Vicky that she was not the Victoria that the baby was named for.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: tea_rose on July 24, 2005, 01:24:30 PM
 Prince Lieven, you're right. Perhaps, another reason she was so "content" with Wilhelm-who was similarly spiteful and jealous.  Dona was also  very religious in a very narrow and bigoted fashion -and Vicky was quite freethinking in regard to religion (though  a Christian).

 You can see Dona and Wilhelm showing their narrowminded qualities in full force in the fuss they raised over Sophia's conversion to Greek Orthodoxy. I enjoyed Sophie's spirited telegram sent to her mother over the PUBLIC telegram wires that Wilhelm was "mad" when he barred her from Germany.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 24, 2005, 01:30:30 PM
Yes, remember when Dona told Sophie she could NEVER marry Tino. Sophie, naturally, took that with a pinch of salt. Dona was eight months pregnant at the time, and got so agitated that Willy said that if the baby died Sophie would have murdered it. Or what about when Mossy wanted to marry Prince Frederick Charles ('Fischy') of Hesse-Kassel, but Willy didn't think he was good enough for her. Then he relented, telling Mossy she could marry Fischy since she was 'so unimportant yourself.' What a man! : - )
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on July 24, 2005, 07:31:22 PM
What made William's remark regarding Sophie 'killing' even more ludicrous is that his baby (Joachim) wasn't born until weeks after the blow-up. Wilhelm was just looking for something dramatic to latch onto. QV thought him being ridiculous.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: jfkhaos on October 21, 2005, 11:47:24 AM
It's also evident in Vicky's letters that her hopes for a relationship were dashed quite early.  I remember a passage where Vicky indicated she had given Dona a new gown (perhaps in a Venetian style) to help her with her fashion sense and Dona refused to wear it.  Dona also refused to let her children spend much time with Vicky, to the point that she made the remark that she knew her Greek grandchildren better than her German grandchildren.  Dona eventually began to relent towards the end of Vicky's life, but I also recall that Willy upbraided Dona for meeting him at the station when he came to see his mother while she was dying, but Vicky did not want her there anyways.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 21, 2005, 12:00:38 PM
yes, and that scolding was quite public and dear Dona (ha ha) was humiliated. She deserved it, in my opinion, after years of getting away with being pretty unfeeling.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: bluetoria on October 22, 2005, 07:12:54 AM
I don't like Dona and think she was extremely unkind to Vicky...and yet, Alice Topham's memoirs show her in a very kindly light and, I suppose, since the governess saw a great deal of her, (and wrote her book when there was a great deal of anti-German feeling in Britain) Miss Topham's opinions must count for a great deal. She described Dona as always very kind and caring....
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on October 22, 2005, 07:15:20 AM
Yes, isn't she the woman who compared Princess Viktoria Luise to 'her mother the Empress, one of the kindest women I ever met'?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 22, 2005, 10:57:13 AM
Loyal employees often have a bit of bias toward their bosses, and the governess' memoirs must be looked at with some level of concern in this regard.

It is also likely, and I am willing to accept, that Dona could have been kindly on occasions and toward certain people. That does not reduce the high level of distain and cruelty she directed at Vicky. It could have been the "mother-in-law thing", but beyond that, Dona seemed to have been an opportunist seeking to support her husband's ideas no matter who or what they demeaned.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 22, 2005, 04:06:18 PM
We always have different facets to our personality. Dona was a good mother and Anne Topham would've seen her in this capacity. She obviously loved her children--doted on Joachim in fact--and this would've reflected positively on her. Plus a person can treat their servants well and still not be a nice person to others.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: TampaBay on October 22, 2005, 04:46:19 PM
Was not Donna only "Half Royal" by birth.  Was not her mother or possibly her grandmother onle a "mere Countess".

Maybe it was a Queen Mary "thing"?

I look forward to your perspective.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Marc on October 22, 2005, 04:51:57 PM
Her grandmother from her father's side was Countess Dannenskiold-Samsoe and she was marked as a ''mere countess'',while her mother was a Hohenlohe-Langenburg Princess witch was considered ''good enough''!From Kaiser's biography!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Grace on October 22, 2005, 06:07:34 PM
Dona was an excellent mother and was dearly loved by all her children.

It was unfortunate that she never challenged Willy more with some of his behaviour and never really seemed to develop her own ideas.

I am sure that Vicky tried to get along with and befriend Dona in the beginning but Vicky too could be tactless and quite demanding at times.  She did have very high expectations of people which could not always be lived up to.

The story about her giving Dona a gown to wear is interesting...there are not too many women who would appreciate being given this by their mother-in-law to help with "fashion sense" without taking offence.

There were faults on both sides, I think, though I do think Dona was cruel in not letting Vicky have more access to her grandchildren - cruel to Vicky and to the children.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alicky1872 on October 22, 2005, 07:10:27 PM
Given how sour Vicky and Dona's relationship turned later, I find it ironic that Vicky was the one who pushed Willy towards marrying her in the first place. Of course Willy had his heart set on Ella, and when Vicky found out, she wrote 'I am not to have the dream realised in which I often indulged and which had become the wish of my heart.' --in regards to Dona!  ::)

Years later, when Willy's own grandson was facing the prospect of having to choose duty over love, Willy wrote to him, 'You will no doubt well know that only few soverigns in the world are lucky enough to be able to marry the object of their first love. For example, in my youth exactly the same thing happened to me, when my parents refused to allow me to marry my cousin Ella of Hesse--a relationship which my grandmother Kaiserin Augusta especially fostered and which I had begged my parents from the bottom of my heart to permit. My heart bleeding, I obeyed the severe command of duty.'

Apparently Vicky felt Willy and Ella were 'too closely related' and the fear that Haemophilia would be passed down to a potential Kaiser of Germany was always at the back of her mind. However, none of these arguments came up when Heinrich married Irene--so go figure. I suppose by that time it wasn't likely that any of H and I's sons would inherit the throne...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: bluetoria on October 23, 2005, 01:44:52 PM
I wonder if Willy's putting the blame on to his parents for being unable to marry Ella, was really just to save his pride.
It was Ellawho rejected him - much to QV's disappointment...and I guess it was easier for him to think that outside influences were at work, than to just accept that she thought him, "absolutely horrid!"

(Btw Mrs. Eddy your spooky pictures are scaring me  :o!!! I'm of a nervous disposition!!  ;D)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 23, 2005, 02:30:27 PM
Thanks for that MrsE. Can you say which book that was in? Perhaps one of the ones by John Rohl (which I need to get my hands on)? I've never read that quote before.

In regards to Ella, it could be that Vicky knew that Ella didn't love Wilhelm and wouldn't be forced into it either? She could've foreseen the misery that might've resulted. H&I were very much in love on the other hand. There also was the uncomfortable position that Empress Augusta also wished Ella for her other grandson Fritz of Baden. When Ella wound up rejecting both the Hesse girls were snubbed at the Berlin court by her.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alicky1872 on October 24, 2005, 03:47:28 PM
Quote
Thanks for that MrsE. Can you say which book that was in? Perhaps one of the ones by John Rohl (which I need to get my hands on)? I've never read that quote before.


Yes, GDElla, I found that quote in 'Young Wilhelm' by John Rohl, an excellent book.  :)


Quote

In regards to Ella, it could be that Vicky knew that Ella didn't love Wilhelm and wouldn't be forced into it either? She could've foreseen the misery that might've resulted.


Apparently Vicky would get annoyed as she felt that Alice was encourging Willy towards Ella. Alice herself seemed quite pleased about Willy's feelings, writing letters proudly boasting that Willy wished to marry Ella...  This leads me to believe Ella couldn't have disliked Willy that much (at the time anyway)...because why would Alice say and do things to embarass her daughter, and make her feel uncomfortable? (And at one point Vicky was sure that it was Victoria that Willy wanted to marry! Could you imagine!  ;D) Also, since Vicky seemed to have no problem cutting Willy down with remarks about no woman wanting him with his disabled arm, when he became too full of himself--I couldn't imagine her having a problem with speaking plainly about Ella simply not wanting to marry him!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: bluetoria on October 25, 2005, 07:12:11 AM
Quote

(And at one point Vicky was sure that it was Victoria that Willy wanted to marry! Could you imagine!  ;D)


That might well have changed the whole course of history!! If anyone could have 'kept him in check' it would have been Victoria!!  ;D
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Ssyentz on October 25, 2005, 08:33:19 AM
Regarding Dona's refusal to allow her children spending much time with Vicky, I see an ironic, actually doubly unfair to Vicky, situation.  Vicky resented horribly the influence that her in-laws (and Bismarck)  had on Wilhelm.  Wilhelm would most probably have been aware of that resentment and was certainly capable of twisting the circumstances to repay his mother for her  supposed injuries to his German grandparents.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: TampaBay on October 26, 2005, 11:48:41 AM
Quote

That might well have changed the whole course of history!! If anyone could have 'kept him in check' it would have been Victoria!!  ;D


"Victoria"  are we referring to the eldest Hesse Princess (daughter of Ludwig & Alice) who married Louis of Battenberg and became VMH?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 26, 2005, 12:55:14 PM
That's what it sounds like.

Victoria seemed to get on with him well-enough and he taught her to smoke.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: TampaBay on October 26, 2005, 01:04:37 PM
Here is what I do not understand, QV seeemed to be against Irene & Henry marrying but yet I have never read anything about her being aganist Wilhelm II & Ella marrying.

Does anyone have the scoop?  Who did QV want Wilhelm II to marry?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Ssyentz on October 26, 2005, 06:47:14 PM
Here's what I've gleaned so far...
Vicky's letters to QV regarding the engagement indicate that the views of the two are as one...that it would be a good match especially in that Dona was "22, and not 17" and that William, basically, would not profit from further looking.

Also, the familial ties were strong:  Dona's maternal grandmother was QV's 1/2 sister; and Dona's paternal uncle was the brother of Christian, Pss Helena's husband.

More if and when I find more specific info.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 26, 2005, 10:36:50 PM
Quote
Here is what I do not understand, QV seeemed to be against Irene & Henry marrying but yet I have never read anything about her being aganist Wilhelm II & Ella marrying.

TampaBay


A lot of QV's opposition to H & I stemmed from the fact that it was done behind her back. She hated to be out of the loop.  :)  She referred to 'naughty' Irene who had promised her she wouldn't commit to anything yet and then went and became engaged anyway. QV may also have been feeling poorly towards Henry at that period due to some of the Hohenzollern family strife. Also, Irene had suffered some cuts from the Berlin Court after Ella rejected 2 of Empress Augusta's grandsons (Wilhelm and Fritz Baden) and QV probably wasn't too thrilled with the idea of sending gentle Irene there--especially when Henry would be at sea often. She came around though when the case was pled to her by the lovers. She remarked that Irene would probably help tame Henry's rather irascible nature and help ease his relationship with his mother and she was right on both cases.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 26, 2005, 11:37:21 PM
Vicky was much in favor of the marriage of Wilhelm & Dona. Dona was the daughter of one of Fritz & Vicky's closest friends, Duke Friedrich of S-Holstein (Christian's brother) who had been embroiled in the whole question of whom the Duchies belonged to. She wrote that he had been a 'kind,true friend' (something she much valued in Germany where she was so isolated) and that she had feelings of 'admiration adn veneration for his virtues, his noble and excellent character, the patience and dignity with which he bore all his misfortunes. She sympathized with his 'cruel and unjust persecutions of his enemies' was 'most galling' to one such as him. I think Vicky thought this would restore some prestige to him but the Emperor and Bismarck were rather spiteful and the engagement didn't come off until Friedrich had died in Feb 1880. 'That he should have left this world--before his dear child's fate is decided is doubly sad. It pre-occupied him very much. If we ever do have the happiness of possessing his dear daughter in our family, there is nothign I would not do to be a comfort and a help to her.' All this just makes me dislike Dona more when I think of the hopes Vicky had.  >:(

EF to QV:

10 July 1879: "Willie quite wild about Victoria! [Maybe this is where the confusion about a Victoria, not Hesse, that was mentioned?] She is the most charming girl! Her figure is much prettier than her face, but her voice and walk and manner have something very sympathetic and agreeable and graceful....'

13 Jan 1880: 'As for his [Willie's] affairs, they are very difficult to manage, the Emperor is much prejudiced...It is much to be desired that some sort of conclusion should be come to.'

29 Jan 1880: Fritz 'has left Berlin and will be here [Italy] on Saturday morning. He has telegraphed me that the Emperor and Bismarck no longer oppose Willie's wishes [less than 2 wks after Dona's father's death] and the Emperor is willing to give his consent.' Fritz had been forced to stay behind and miss his anniversary so that he could 'dance attendance' on Bismarck in hopes of settling the question of William's marriage once and for all. They both thought it would be better for Fritz to discuss it face to face rather than by letter or emissary.

13 Feb 1880: Vicky writes that Dona might have a hard start since Bismarck had so tarnished her father's character but that as she 'becomes known' she 'must win all hearts and we shall be there to protect her and I hope will be able to do so. A brilliant 'parti' in the eyes of the world it certainly is not' but Vicky felt that the fact that Dona was German would go over well and she wouldn't have to 'endure' whawt 'I have gone through for 22 years'. She added that with only 3 exceptions (herself, Queen Elise and Princess Albrecht of the Netherlands) all the other Queens and Princesses of the Prussian family had been from the small reigning German families.

18 Feb 1880: 'Willie has written most touching letters...about his great happiness. He engaged himself to dear Victoria on the 14th and had to leave again on the next day not to attract attention as all is to be kept secret....we also feel very thankful and much relieved.'

15 Mar 1880: 'The newspapers in Berlin have got hold of Willie's marriage--and it becomes very awkward, one does really not know what to say as everyone asks. I wish the Emperor would not insist on keeping it secret from the Prussian family--anyway it will only offend them and make it disagreeable for Willie and Dona.' QV agreed with her about the delay. The engagement was announced about a week later.

26 March 1880: 'I am so delighted that you think Victoria so gentle, and amiable, and sweet. She always struck me as such. Her smile and her manner and expression must disarm--even the bristly, thorny people of Berlin...'

27 March 1880: Vicky writes that the engagement, following her year of heartbreak after Waldemar's death, gave her great satisfaction and consolation and that she was 'very very grateful for Willie's happiness--and sure dear Victoria will be a blessing to everyone because she is so gentle and good.' QV wrote 2 weeks later that she found Ella so 'lovely--beyond expression and so sweet and gentle. I could not but think with regret of what might have been. But I will say no more of all that painful past. That is over.'
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Ssyentz on October 26, 2005, 11:59:49 PM
GDElla, you are remarkable!  Great stuff!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alicky1872 on October 27, 2005, 08:47:38 AM
Quote

EF to QV:

10 July 1879: "Willie quite wild about Victoria! [Maybe this is where the confusion about a Victoria, not Hesse, that was mentioned?]


No, no confusion--my book quotes Vicky as writing to Willy,  'Remarks are beginning to be made about your going to Darmstadt to marry your cousin Victoria and I think that as you do not intend to do so (I suppose) you had better for her sake and for yours, be a little scarcer in your visits...' and according to Rohl, at the very beginning, even Vicky got her wires crossed, thinking it had been Victoria that Willy had been going to see so often.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 27, 2005, 09:08:49 AM
Ah got it. I guess she assumed that Ella was too young (she was only 19 when she married Serge in 1884) so it must be Victoria.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alicky1872 on October 27, 2005, 05:42:23 PM
Quote
Ah got it. I guess she assumed that Ella was too young (she was only 19 when she married Serge in 1884) so it must be Victoria.


Another quote I thought would be of interest:

Willy to Vicky in 1875 (when Ella was only 11)

'Cousins look very nice, Victoria full of mirth, had a very good complexion; Ella--who is my special pet--is much grown and is exceedingly beautiful, in fact she is the most beautiful girl I ever saw. She is more quiet than Victoria ( ;D) but still very intelligent. She and I both love eachother warmly... I think that if God grants that I may live till then I shall make her my bride once you allow it.'

Back to Dona and Vicky.....
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 27, 2005, 08:19:47 PM
I'm going to move your quote over to the Willy/Ella thread MrsE in case we want to explore it more.  :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Lucien on October 30, 2005, 12:38:32 AM
Quote
Part of it was that. Also, Dona was simply a spiteful, jealous woman who was extremely contemptuous of Vicky. Dona, herself being the uber-housfrau, thought that Vicky was far too English. She was very elitist, and thought the idea of Moretta marrying Sandro of Battenberg (a match Vicky had championed) was a stupid idea. Queen Victoria, for her part, thought Dona was a 'poor, insignificant little princess.' When Dona's youngest child Viktoria Luise was born, Dona went out of her way to tell Vicky that she was not the Victoria that the baby was named for.


Otto von Bismarck,the Iron Chancellor,referred to Dona as;"Die Holsteiner Kuh(Holsteiner Cow).Not that this scheming man is my favorite to quote,but it adds to the picture of Dona.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Marc on October 31, 2005, 08:17:23 AM
Prince von Bismarck aslo called her father;"That idiot of Hostein"!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Decadence on January 06, 2006, 11:04:17 AM
The Princess Schleswig-Holstein-Sondenburg-Augestenburg
I was reading Nicky and Alix's diaries and they mentioned her like once and they seemed not to like her and said she was old fashioned and frumpy.
Does anyone know anything else about the Kaiserin and what the Romanovs thought of her?
:)
:-*
x

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/TheLastTsarina/KaiserinAugustaVictoria-3.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/TheLastTsarina/KaiserinAugustaVictoriadaughterVikt.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b319/TheLastTsarina/KaiserinAugustaVictoria-4.jpg
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on January 07, 2006, 06:34:17 AM
They did not like Dona much. The Romanovs considered her a foolish Hausfrau in idiotic hats and dresses  :) --as I read something like that...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 07, 2006, 08:59:50 AM
Yes she was awful to Vicky and there was no need for it. She felt inferior I think. No one could match Vickys intelligence!!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2006, 09:23:31 AM
She finally warmed to Vicky till the end, even than she appeared awkward. Dona's accessment of Beatrice's marriage bought out QV's bitchiness. "What was she ? An insignificant princess raised to her position by your (Vicky's) kindness " said QV.  >:(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Decadence on January 07, 2006, 10:30:14 AM
Sorry, im totally confused lol! Vicky? eh? can you explain for me?
what are your opinions and do you think the Romanov's were right in thinking what they did? lol
:-*
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2006, 10:39:34 AM
Minnie had a high opinion of Fritz & Vicky, and so did Sasha. However both had reservations on Willy and Dona was no help.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on January 07, 2006, 01:53:04 PM
She doesn't seem to have had much to do with them--the Romanovs. She didn't accompany Wilhelm on his trips for instance.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on January 07, 2006, 02:25:29 PM
But the Romanovs sometimes went to Germany... For example in 1913 Nikolay II was at Viktoria Luise's wedding. :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2006, 09:39:20 PM
Yes but Alicky was not there. Dona was generally not a beloved figure in the family. She was viewed as straight-laced, bigoted and stupid Hansfrau...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on January 08, 2006, 04:18:00 AM
Possibly she was viewed as stupid and bigoted but some people considered that Kaiser was under her strong influence  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Michael_II on January 08, 2006, 08:16:40 AM
Could it be that Augusta Victoria and Empress Alexandra
were very much alike???  Both husbands were strongly
influenced by their wives, neither were well liked within
the outlying family structure and both were considered
straightlaced and not overly bright.  Both appeared cold and snubbish from a distance.  Within the immediate family they were loving and well loved by their children.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 08, 2006, 08:57:46 AM
No...I have read somewhere that Willy once slapped Dona, and had many times scolded her in public. He was so disgusted by her lack of style that he ordered her to copy the dresses and hats of his cousin, Princess Louise of Belgium, eldest daughter of King Leopold II. Nicky could hardly get away with this from Alicky.  :P
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on January 08, 2006, 08:59:49 AM
Quote
No...I have read somewhere that Willy once slapped Dona, and had many times scolded her in public. He was so disgusted by her lack of style that he ordered her to copy the dresses and hats of his cousin, Princess Louise of Belgium, eldest daughter of King Leopold II. Nicky could hardly get away with this from Alicky.  :P


Where did you hear this Eric?  :o :o I mean, Willy was bad, but slapping Dona, and in public?  ??? :o
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Michael_II on January 08, 2006, 10:34:07 AM
The Prussian royal males did not make the best of husbands.  Prince Friedrich Leopold son of Friedrich Karl was once placed under house arrest for slapping around his wife Pss. Louise sister of the Empress. :-/
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 08, 2006, 10:40:10 AM
Yes...I read it was not in public of course, but well within the intimate family circle. It is understandable, Willy did not love Dona, the way he did Ella. Dona was his subordinate, an insignificant princess that barely made the cut. It was this kind of insecurity that made Dona more conservative just to please her husband and his circle.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on January 08, 2006, 11:24:16 AM
Quote
The Prussian royal males did not make the best of husbands.  Prince Friedrich Leopold son of Friedrich Karl was once placed under house arrest for slapping around his wife Pss. Louise sister of the Empress. :-/


Yes, and Prince Fritz Karl's beating of his wife Marianne is well documented.

Eric - I see what you mean, though I would in no way call Willy's beating of Dona 'understandable'. :-/
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on January 08, 2006, 11:45:51 AM
Quote
 Prince Friedrich Leopold son of Friedrich Karl was once placed under house arrest for slapping around his wife Pss. Louise sister of the Empress. :-/


A popular myth of that time! He was placed under arrest for other reasons!... Though his father was really a beast who slapped his wife Princess Marianne. And Princess Luise Sophie was not that type of a woman to let be offended or slapped even by her own husband.


Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 08, 2006, 08:11:03 PM
I did not say that Willy slapped Dona was "understanable" means it was justified. I mean I knew why he did it, although I would not approve of beating someone so timid as Dona. Willy did have a lot of flaws as it was revealed that he love S&M and went to a prostitude to get it (it was rumoured that Bismark use this info to blackmail the Kaiser).  :o
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Grace on January 08, 2006, 09:41:54 PM
Eric, is this info from the Rohl book on Willy?  :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Linnea on January 09, 2006, 11:55:20 AM
Quote
Yes...I read it was not in public of course, but well within the intimate family circle. It is understandable, Willy did not love Dona, the way he did Ella. Dona was his subordinate, an insignificant princess that barely made the cut. It was this kind of insecurity that made Dona more conservative just to please her husband and his circle.


I have to say that I am no expert on Auguste-Viktoria, but I do not agree with some of your statements, eric. Maybe Wilhelm didn´t love A.-V. like maybe his father his mother, but he was surely confident with her. Just think of her producing six sons (Wilhelm was very (!) happy about this), being the role-mother of the day (remember that back then, women shouldn´t think that much, they should be a good mother to as many children as possible and a good wife. What would Wilhelm have said if A.-V. had talked about Schopenhauer the whole day and don´t cared about producing children? ;)). And he was quite proud when she became pregnant for the eight time in the early 1900s as a forty-three year old.
BTW, Wilhelm had quite a few affairs as a prince, but when he became Emperor, he ended these "actions" as he wanted to be a good "exemple" to his people.
And one shouldn´t forget that V.-A. was very well-loved by both her close family (her children worshipped her!) and the German people.  :-/


Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on January 09, 2006, 01:07:15 PM
Quote

And one shouldn´t forget that V.-A. was very well-loved by both her close family (her children worshipped her!) and the German people.  :-/




One of her daughter's servants also said she was kindest woman she'd ever met, didn't she?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 09, 2006, 08:40:34 PM
Well according to the foreign governesses, Dona can be quite unbending sometimes. One of the problems was that she was too influenced by the bigoted "aleluyah aunts" who were conservative and narrow minnded. Both Vicky and her girls suffered under Dona's reigme. Sophie, who have enough guts told Dona to mind her own business when she told her that she would end up in hell if she converted to orthodoxy. Now that is absurd !  >:(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on January 22, 2006, 10:18:24 AM
Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3651/179xo.th.jpg) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=179xo.jpg)



(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/395/111bf.th.jpg) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111bf.jpg)


(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5972/235fw.th.jpg) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=235fw.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: dboro on February 03, 2006, 05:50:54 AM
It's hard to choose...
Empress Auguste Victoria by Heinrich von Angeli:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/auguste_victoria.jpg)

with Wilhelm II by Paul Beckert (1890-90)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/beckert_1891_dona.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/beckert1890.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Nuria on February 24, 2006, 08:15:27 PM
Augusta with baby Viktoria Luise

(http:// http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4971/augustawithbabyviktorialuise7n.jpg )
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: KarlandZita on April 08, 2006, 12:26:56 PM

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6425/aug12yv.th.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aug12yv.jpg)

Empress Augusta Victoria with her daughter Viktoria Luise in carriage
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on May 09, 2006, 10:03:04 AM
Dona seems to have been a typical dull, german princess in some ways. Of course, her dull personality, and apparent streak of  being mean, are different things. She was charming as a girl, although dull. But her being vindictive or mean was wrong, to say the least. She perhaps was one of those people who you can never understand. It can be understood that she was dull, or mostly concerned with stuff like her children, religion, and home. It is harder to understand why she would be mean to people.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on May 11, 2006, 10:59:17 AM
Dona's later years don't sound that happy. Of course, some thrive in exile and others don't. She was apparently the perfect model of German womanhood, and was not a very fascinating nor interesting woman. She perhaps placed her store in her position too much. Her marriage was happy, but one wonders how normal any marriage to the Kaiser, especially in his reigning years could be. Dona sounds intolerant and not very respectful of others, not good traits. She was a princess of those fought over principalities, and that's why she was regarded as rather low ranking for an heir to the German thrine to marry, just a daughter of the claimant there, orginally the duke of Augustenburg. So it was partly political, but she was a minor Princess.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: tea_rose on May 27, 2006, 01:22:58 PM
In re: to the dissension between Dona and Vicky: in my opinon, it was just an echo of the conflict between Willy and Vicky. Dona was singularly lacking in imagination and independent thought and she seems to have taken up (or tried to) all of Wilhelm's prejudices and enthusiasms. She was his "fan club of one" so to speak and many books hinted that Willy's excessive travelling also helped him to escape this claustrophobic admiration and find refuge in his all male jaunts with plenty of raucous practical jokes and loud laughter presided over by the All Highest, of course.

  I don't think anyone could have been a productive  wife for
Wilhelm that WANTED to be his wife if you understand my drift!  That would be a martyrdom or crusade for an intelligent woman. Willy was just too erratic and full of bombast. Dona was dull enough to take him at his own estimate!

  I have to echo everyone's sympathy for Vicky who has always had my empathy. She wasn't the perfect mother , by any means, but I do think she sincerely loved all of her children. The abyss that grew up between her and her three oldest children was a source of grief to her. Plus, her ideals (even if they were quixotic for 19th c. Prussia) appeal to me so much more than Willy's opinions!  I never stop wishing that Fritz's tragic death had not happened when it did.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Guinastasia on June 25, 2006, 11:34:49 AM
Stupidity-one story I read had her talking to a eunuch in some Muslim country she was visiting-I think one of the Sultans.  She was visiting the harem, and the eunuch was telling her his duties, etc.  She then asked him if his father had been a eunuch as well.  D'oh!!!

It's funny, because in VL's memoirs, she says she WAS named after her grandmother-perhaps she wasn't told about this, or hadn't heard of it then?

Dona's behavior wasn't just poor towards Vicky-her nastiness and bigotry when her sister in law Sophie wanted to convert to Greek Orthodoxy was appalling.

I'm reading The Last Kaiser by MacDonogh right now.  Dona doesn't appear to be much of an entity in German society.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 03, 2006, 02:37:26 PM


Marie Mallet:

"Insignificant & boring"


lol  ;D ;D good old Marie Mallet.

I believe Queen Victoria called her insignificant because of Donas objection to Beatrices engagement, which was none of her business.  :-\

I was reading today that suprisingly Charlotte, Dona's sister in law, didn't like her either! Apparently Charlotte would mock her and laugh at her horse riding skills!

For someone so imperious, exile must have been hard on her. Dona never recovered from Prince Joachims suicide and the fact that she was forbidden to attend his funeral only exacerbated her grief and she died a few months later.  :-[
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on August 03, 2006, 03:50:24 PM
She was the complete opposite of Charly in everyway--from the way they dressed to the love of society to parenting skills to their morals. About the only way they were similar is in their treatment of Vicky.  :(

Charly spread gossip and catty remarks about Dona and this helped drive a wedge between the previously close relationship between Wilhlem and Charly.

I think QV meant 'insignifcant' in terms of the fact that Dona really had no position or wealth. Her father had been deprived of any claim to the Schleswig-Holstein Duchies and their real claim to prominence came about through their connection to Queen Victoria--both through QV's niece (Dona's mother) and QV's son-in-law Christian (Dona's uncle). Dona otherwise was no great marriage prize--to think that she would've been picked to become the future German Empress if not for these connections and, ironically, Vicky's support (she and Fritz being great friends with Dona's father Friedrich) is really doubtful. I don't believe that Dona was even an HRH. In addition, she didn't possess any great beauty, intelligence or wealth that could compensate.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 03, 2006, 04:02:12 PM
It really is quite remarkable how she became an Empress!!! Ive been looking for a thread on her daughter Viktoria but can't seem to find one. Are her memoirs interesting? Did they have to leave Germany too?

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 03, 2006, 04:35:00 PM
Eddieboy- you might seek out THE KAISER'S DAUGHTER [memoirs] Prentice-Hall 1965
 Although Dona might have been a dull, boring religous bigot, Wlhelm's second wife, Hermine [Reuss/Schaumberg-Lippe] was a bit more interesting. I wish I had more than her memoirs to know her by, but she seems to be ignored by most writers, in English, at least.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 03, 2006, 04:52:19 PM
Thank you very much Robert! I will look into that!

Yes come to think if it, I know very little on Hermine too. Apparently even Viktoria cooled towards her father when he married her, and so soon after Donas death too.  :-\
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on August 03, 2006, 06:46:55 PM
Most of what's known  about Hermine tends to focus on the fact that, unlike WII, she was very pro-Nazi. Perhaps she harbored delusions of becoming an Empress in fact as well as name.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 03, 2006, 07:00:47 PM
i see what you mean, Eddieboy,  her memoirs [pub. 1928] is even titled  AN EMPRESS IN EXILE.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 04, 2006, 07:49:59 AM
Sorry Robert, do you mean Hermines memoirs?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 04, 2006, 09:59:48 AM
Yes, Hermine. My copy publihed in the USA by Kingsport Press. Apprently ghosted by G. S. Viereck.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 04, 2006, 10:19:29 AM
I think it odd that she called herself "Empress" [or her publishers did]. Although she did in fact marry the ex-kaiser, she was never a sovereign empress, consort or otherwise. Her pro-Nazi sympathies apparently did her in, as no one had any sympathy for her after  WW2. Marlene or Arturo probably have more to say about both "empresses" as they are quite "into" the German royals.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 04, 2006, 10:41:47 AM
Yes, very odd and didn't Wilhelm marry her quite quickly after Donas death?? Maybe she was a social climber   ;D
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 04, 2006, 11:03:06 AM
To be fair, she [Hermine] does address and justify the question of her right to be  called "empress". I just find it pretentious, but considering who she married.....
Eddieboy- Dona died in Apr.1921. Wilhelm married Hermine in Nov. 1922
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on August 04, 2006, 03:46:36 PM
I suppose it is similar to Augusta Victoria, who married King Manuel of Portugal, after he was deposed. She was called Queen since she had married a King, one in exile or not.

Apparently Hermine's son (she was a widow) wrote to the exiled Kaiser and he invited the family to visit. The relationship developed quickly after that. The suddenness of the courtship and marriage rather stunned family and friends and his children, Victoria Louise at least, don't seem to have been too happy. There have been some rumors that the original letter was pushed by Hermine herself rather than her young son with the hope of securing an invitation. If it was planned all along, it worked rather well for her.

It seems rather ironic that just when WII probably would've actually valued Dona's unquestioning loyalty and devotion, was the only time during their marriage that she was more or less emotionally unavailable to him. She apparently didn't adjust well at all to the change in their circumstances and Joachim's suicide was just the proverbial nail in the coffin. While WII did better at adjusting to the life of a 'country gentleman', he was still very lonely, and thus ripe for the picking by Hermine. If Dona would've lived longer and been able to adjust, her marriage to WII might actually have become more of partnership rather than the rather selfish, one-sided one it often was.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on August 30, 2006, 05:51:20 PM
Yes, it is surprising that Dona became an Empress, she really didn't have the best blood or connections for the German dynasty which valued both of those very much. She is rather sad, as she wasn't interesting, yet more ordinary than anything else, and one can hold that against her that much.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 30, 2006, 08:55:51 PM
You cracked Dona there and then. It was her blood and bad connections that made her seemed necessary to "toe the line". She cannot afford to be critized. If so it would be " Yes...I am not surprised. Bad blood. What do you expect them them.". Dona desperately wanted Willy to be proud of her and not a liability. It was that fear that prompted her cruelty to her sister, Sophie (Duchess of Sparta) and Vicky as well. She would do withever Willy wanted even against members of her own family. Doana was quite pathetic...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on August 31, 2006, 10:53:34 AM
Yes, she was. She was ordinary, something you can't hold against her. I think she is more to be pitied than to be reviled.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on August 31, 2006, 12:05:39 PM
Yes, she was. She was ordinary, something you can't hold against her. I think she is more to be pitied than to be reviled.

She was ordinary but Kaiser was under her strong influence anyway.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 31, 2006, 02:31:43 PM
She was what the Kaiser considered the ideal German wife- kitchen, kids and church. Nothing more challenging than that.  I honestly cannot see how she influenced him
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 31, 2006, 08:52:18 PM
I agree. Bismark called her "The cow from Holstein" . Very much accurate indeed ! He had little respect for her and once reported that he slapped her face before a public appearance, so she had to cancel. Also he hated her hats and gowns and asked Dona to copy those of Louise of Belgium (who did spent a fortune on clothes).  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: TampaBay on September 03, 2006, 07:06:12 PM
I think Dona spoiled Willy with her submission to his whim, while Elisabeth went her own way later in life.

What was the nature of Willy's relationship with Hermine? Hermine seems a very dominant type women to me?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on September 05, 2006, 12:52:36 PM
She was what the Kaiser considered the ideal German wife- kitchen, kids and church. Nothing more challenging than that.  I honestly cannot see how she influenced him

Well, I did not mean that Kaiser was under the thumbs of Dona but she infllunced on him in some ways. She was a sanctimonious and prudish person, I guess in that way she dominated over her husband, just remember the strict etiquette of the Prussian court, which was becoming more and more severe during the years of Wilhelm's reign.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 05, 2006, 01:08:09 PM
Yes, and such hypocracy. Must have really toasted her macaroons when the homosexual scandal broke !
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on September 05, 2006, 01:13:01 PM
Must have really toasted her macaroons when the homosexual scandal broke !

No doubt. :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 05, 2006, 10:13:00 PM
I sincerely doubt her influence very much. She herself was under the thumb of the "Helleluyah Aunts". Willy himself admired women like his Aunt Alix, his cousin Ella (both photos remained on his desk throughout his reign). Clever ladies like Princess Catherine Radziwill and Princess Daisy Von Pless also found flavour with him.  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 06, 2006, 09:29:37 AM
I was reading that apparently Princess Irene and Dona did not get on! Dona took the side of Ducky during her marriage difficulties! It's hard to imagine Irene not getting on with anyone!! Any more information on Irener and Donas relationship?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 06, 2006, 10:18:19 AM
Jose, I think the hareem story is probably true. Since the Ottoman court was segergated, it was the usual practice to take visiting female royals, ambassadors wives and such to the Hareem to be presented to the Valide and other sultanas. I would imagine  Dona's own attendants would be too embarrased to explain to her beforehand what being a eunuch actually entailed. If they even knew themselves.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 06, 2006, 11:27:29 AM
I think Dona was really stupid, navie and narrow-minded. Not a good combination at all...however she was loyal to Willy till the bitter end. Irene was the saint that people painted her to be, she cut her only son out of her will beause he won't come back and live with her. When her granddaughter did come back, she was reinated in her will, but not her brother. Quite a mean spirited granny if you ask me...Also the Anastasia bit also ruined my idea of irene as a "bringer of peace" and more of busybody. On their tiff, it could also be that Irene took Vicky's side in family matters. When Willy reconcilled with Vicky, Dona became the odd woman out... >:(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 07, 2006, 07:00:05 PM
I did not know WII ever truly reconciled with his mother. On the contrary, theirs was always a difficult relationship and any "reconciliation" was half-hearted. He was tough and mean, even at her death bed and beyond.

Regarding Dona, I don't see her nearly as the huge loser some paint her to be. She did, by default, get tainted by WII's actions/personality, but she held her own on most occasions. She was not the in-your-face intellectual or blessed with political savy like Vicky, but she was a huge benefactor of many public buildings in Berlin and other areas of the Reich. The reason she was in the Ottoman empire was to dedicate the ONLY European financed (Willy and her own money) hospital in the middle east, which still exists today. I cannot forgive her treatment of Vicky or her patronizing manner toward William, but for sure I do not think she was not the laughing stock of Europe or the utter boob some say she was.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2006, 09:52:21 PM
Well...To a large amount of Hohenzollern relatives she was a bigot and someone who is silly and try to be what she was not. Both Sophie and Moretta didn't hide their dislike of her and so was Vicky (who originally championed her against the likes of Ella). QV branded her ungrateful and a "poor insignifant princess" who had the gall to preach what should be or not be done to her (the marriage of Princess Beatrice). Princess Charlotte actively lampooned her among her smart set in Berlin. Irene and Heinrich were not known to be close to Dona. Only Mossy was not in total disagreement with her. So I could say that she wasn't a popular figure within the family...

Willy did scold Dona for not calling him back into the room when Vicky passed away (he was out on a walk).  :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 08, 2006, 11:32:54 AM
I think Dona has a relatively low approval rating on most measures, but the one liners that have been leveled about her over time by notworthy persons don't necessarily paint the full picture of the woman. I mean, Charlotte, for example, lampooned just about everybody, and QV in addition to her unkind comments had made a couple good ones too. She was very popular with the German people, had a major thoroughfare named in her honor as far away as chicago, Illinois, did much philantrophy work, and again, her hospitial is still funcitioning in the middle east. while perhaps an odd ball on many levels, her full resume is not insignificant or without merit.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on September 08, 2006, 01:42:16 PM
I don't have a very high opinion of Dona myself but I see HerrKaiser's points. She was viewed differently by the average, middle-class German citizen of her time than by other, more political figures. The public saw her charity work, her devotion to her religion and her family, and approved. Others, like Bismarck, were more mocking as were those more worldly, like Charly, or more intellectual, like Vicky.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 09, 2006, 01:44:55 PM
Probably much the same reason Barbara Bush or Mamie Eisenhower were.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Tsarina_Liz on September 09, 2006, 07:37:18 PM
Dona's popularity came from being a model prude, I think.  She was a narrow minded, anti-Semitic shrew but the image she put out there of submissive and religious wife was widely appreciated in a country facing increasingly troubled times and perceptually lax morality. 

On a completely unrelated note, how the heavens do you pronounce her name?  For all my German, I can't figure out whether it's Dohna or Dahna.  Can anyone help?
 - Liz
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 09, 2006, 08:12:47 PM
Its's Victoria Augusta. Dona's only a nickname like Ella, Missy and Calma... ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Tsarina_Liz on September 09, 2006, 08:39:04 PM
Its's Victoria Augusta. Dona's only a nickname like Ella, Missy and Calma... ;)

I know it's a nickname.  I'm wondering how to pronounce the nickname  :) 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 09, 2006, 11:48:53 PM
I heard people pronounced it as Dorn-nah or Do-nah !  ???
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: TampaBay on September 10, 2006, 08:38:02 AM
I do not think Dona was evil.  I think she was VERY jealous of Vicky and limited in intelect & education.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Tsarina_Liz on September 10, 2006, 02:00:07 PM
I heard people pronounced it as Dorn-nah or Do-nah !  ???

Hmmm.  Oh well.  Seems like everyone has their own variation of the nickname  ;)  Interesting one, though.  Resembles neither Viktoria nor Augusta.  This is a long shot, but her boat was later rechristined the Iduna after a Germanic goddess.  Is there any chance William chose to call her "Dona" as a variation of "Iduna" and honor their Germanic heritage? 

As for her relationship with Vicky, I don't think William and Vicky had a truly substantial relationship for Dona to be jealous of until the very end and from then on only in selective memories on William's part.  Dona, IMO, didn't like Vicky because Vicky wasn't submissive and spoke her mind.  And that mind was often at odds with the conservative Dona.  Also, the impressionable Dona was swept up into the heady world of court factions and claimed by those opposed to Vicky. 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Taren on September 10, 2006, 06:19:52 PM
I've been saying Doh (long O, rhymes with sew) na (nuh). Is there a right way to say it?

Same thing with Ena...I'm never sure how to pronounce it. Is the E long or short? Eeeenuh or In-a like in a hole?

Dona (however you pronounce it!) was basically a parrot for everything Willy said or thought. If Willy didn't get along with someone then she didn't either. Both were experts at getting involved in things that weren't their business. Sophie's decision to convert to Greek Orthodoxy for example. Sure, as her brother he had the right to comment, but it was hardly something so huge as to cause a miscarriage (like Willy and Dona apparently thought). Ditto everything with the Battenbergs. It was certainly none of his business who his aunt married -especially considering how Queen Victoria gave her consent and she had been a monarch longer than Willy and Dona had been alive. Dona would have been great as one of those idealized 1950's housewives: cooking dinner with a poofy dress and pearls on, no career outside the home, bringing the husband his slippers and pipe, and no opinions of her own. Sort of a Stepford royal.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 10, 2006, 06:47:49 PM
That's pretty much what she was. I don't think she would have been pleasant to know, but having Wilhelm II for a husband would have been difficult for any woman. She managed it, although doubltless was influenced by him. He was pretty difficult, and he did like to think he was always right. I think that rubbed off on her. She was ordinary, yet obviously had some traits of personality that people disliked.There were some bad sides to her, but I don't think she could help it.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Tsarina_Liz on September 10, 2006, 07:34:09 PM
While the image of a Stepford Royal is quite funny, I think Dona was too opinionated to be considered a complacent wife.  She had a big mouth and an air of pettiness.  And she was too sure of her own mental capabilities and religious convictions (quite like her contemporary, sort of, Tsarina Alexandra).  The ignorant are often the loudest, IMO. 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 11, 2006, 02:40:36 AM
However Alicky was very well educated unlike Dona. It was her fine education that makes Alicky too full and sure of herself, while Dona depend on treaditional values. I often think if Willy had married Ella, what would have happened ? I think Willy would not have walked all over Ella had he did with Dona... :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 11, 2006, 08:27:29 AM
Well, it is true that Dona had her opinions, which often seemed like those of her husband. She certainly was a typical Prussian royal in her interest in in the proper way to do things, and having strict standards of morality, and she wasn't that well educated. Alexandra was better educated than her, and perhaps more intellectual, although she had her opinions too.I think comparing them is unfair, although perhaps useful. Anyway, they certainly didn't like each other, I don't think many fellow royals did like Dona.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 11, 2006, 02:00:08 PM
all interesting ideas about Dona and her personaliy. thanks for the inputs. Regarding her tendency to "support" William in the style of a "stepford royal', it is funny, but in general aren't most consorts the same by design? Rarely was an Albert-type allowed, and while most monarchs were men, of course their wives bore the very traditional role/burden of being the 'good wife'. it was all the plan, and we can see in latter 20th century what breaking that mold does (did I mention Princess Di?  ;)) In spite of all this, the era Dona was empress was the change into an industrialized world where the vast middle class and widespread rights were emerging. She did a good job embracing such and coping; as stated earlier, she was hugely philantrophic and did more than any previous consort in social and charitiable programs. Also, there is no good evidence she was anit semetic or surely no more so than any of the vast family from England to Russia. On the contrary, both she and William were good friends and supporter of Albert Ballin and other industrialists/scientists who endeared both Kaiser and Kaiserin. In my opinioin, comparing Dona to Alexandra is reasonable; while they may have had different educations, Aliexandra certainly did nothing with such an advantage and in the end both suffered the fate of doing little with the power they had. It does seem clear however, that Alexandra was far less involved and beloved by her subjects than Dona, and unless one wants to make judgments about the ignorance of the Russian people regarding their empress vs the German people regarding theirs, the conventional wisdom would be that Dona was more successful.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 11, 2006, 09:56:26 PM
Dona knew what her role to be and stick with it. The German people liked her "mother" image and reacted favourable to it. Kaiserin Friedrich was too intellectual and artistic for the common German to understand, hense she was more misunderstood.  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 12, 2006, 10:39:11 AM
Well, Dona did fit the mother image; perhaps she knew the importance of image and Alexandra didn't. That just makes Dona a bit more astute regarding public relations.Alexandra never understood the need to be in society, to be seen, to put herself out there. Of course, she was shy, and that is essentially why that was so. I think Dona might have been liked more in public life, and Alexandra in private. Dona was liked by the German people but disliked by her royal relations. Alexandra was not popular with the Russian people, but I think her fellow royals liked her.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 12, 2006, 11:06:24 AM
I don't think the fellow royals liked Alicky, she was too private for their taste. Dona knew her role and happy to be the mother of the people. Alicky thought of her role as wife of an autocrat and scoffed at public relations. It did her a lot of bad relations with the people.  :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 12, 2006, 11:20:11 AM
But I think once people( relatives, common soldiers) got to know Alexandra, they changed their view of her in some cases, and were more accepting of her. I think the closer people got to Dona, then they pulled away. But Dona knew what the public wanted, and Alexandra never did.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 12, 2006, 11:34:16 AM
Dona could be a bit of a spiteful person, coudn't she?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 12, 2006, 11:35:14 AM
She was certaibnly capable of...She was positively nasty to her sister.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 12, 2006, 12:32:12 PM
Yes, and that would have had to be one of the main reasons that perhaps people didn't like her; she didn't care that much about them in the way she expressed herself.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 13, 2006, 01:38:03 PM
good to see some discussion on Dona. going back a bit, i do not think the "common" German people would have been any less able to understand an educated Vicky and the arts. In fact, the German education system,renovated by WII, was forefront in Europe and bit of a model for the U.S. So, vicky's alientation was more, I think, a result of vicious attacks within the court and expressed by the media. As today, the media ruled public opinion and they were not on Vicky's side. Tragic. but, I do not blame the common people or think they had some deficiency in ability to embrace the wife of their truly beloved crown prince and Kaiser; they only knew what they were given by the press to know. Plus, true understanding of what the "common" people were feeling back then is very diffiicult. There were no surveys or studies conducted to assess opinions etc. Most of what we have is from high levels of politics and media and some academicians.

Dona on the other hand had great press. Not only was she a "local girl made good",  but she ruffled few feathers among the court and media. Cruel and seflfish as she was to Vicky in almost every way, she seemed to be politically smart about her own image. I give her credit for that, especially since there would have been no way she could actually be much more of an influence than what she was; times were most different then...a Hilary Clinton-type wife of a king or emperor would simply not have happened.

And, within her immediate family, we see much less strive and angst among and between the siblings than with prior generations or other families. She created calm waters and was respected for such.

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 13, 2006, 02:49:12 PM
She certainly was politically smart about her image.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: José on September 13, 2006, 06:46:03 PM
Jose, I think the hareem story is probably true. Since the Ottoman court was segergated, it was the usual practice to take visiting female royals, ambassadors wives and such to the Hareem to be presented to the Valide and other sultanas. I would imagine  Dona's own attendants would be too embarrased to explain to her beforehand what being a eunuch actually entailed. If they even knew themselves.

And prude Dona visiting a Hareem...
It would seem as she was visting a brothel.
(Provided she knew what a brothel was  ::) )
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 13, 2006, 06:50:29 PM
The Hareem was NOT, of course a brothel ! Someone must have explained to Dona that these women were the Ottoman Sultan's mother, wive and daughters. I  reckon they left out the concubine bit
 Wrapped in her "christian" prejudice, however, she most likely took no note of any of it.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 14, 2006, 10:47:59 AM
Yes, she had many children, all healthy sons except one daughter. This was part of her role as a good German consort, and wife, but she liked it as well. She never survived the blow of that one son's death, I think it was Prince Joachim?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 14, 2006, 06:05:49 PM
Yes, Joachim committed suicide after the war and after his marriage went kaput.

Dona was devasted by the loss of the war, exile, her son's suicide as well as all other personal losses that went with total destruction of life as she knew it for 30 years. The depression clearly led to her somewhat early death.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 14, 2006, 09:52:46 PM
Yes depression finished her off. In a way like Ducky.  :'(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on September 20, 2006, 08:43:41 AM
Yes, it was. When both of these women were hit by something they didn't expect ( with Ducky, Kyril's betrayl, and with Dona, her son's death, and the loss of the throne), they didn't respond well. Had they responded better who knows? If might be easier to respond by giving up and giving into the feelings of doom that come then, but it doesn't do anybody any good least of all yourself. They prove that, and remind me that isn't the way to go although sometimes I feel that it is.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 20, 2006, 09:54:21 AM
Let's remember that Dona did not commit suicide. She did have medical problems as she was getting "up there" in early 20th century measurements. So, the combination of all her troubles clearly reduced her physical health. I do not know what her actual cause of death was, but she was definitely one of the millions "lost generation" of post WWI lost souls who could not recover emotionally or physically.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 20, 2006, 11:23:49 PM
Dona was much more affected by the loss of country and son than Ducky. She went into exile without much bitterness, unlike Dona (and later Ena " I thought I had done well). Dona probably took it as a rejection of her lifestime work as empress and mother of the people. I think her mentel state escarlated her physical decline.  :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Tsarina_Liz on October 02, 2006, 11:58:00 AM
I haven't been able to find a lot of information on Dona.  From what I understand, Wilhelm found her a rather plain Jane and although friendly with her wasn't exactly fired with passion by her appearance.  For her part, did Dona leave any record in correspondances, etc. of her opinion of Wilhelm's appearance (particularly his arm)?  Or did she maintain a wifely, adoring silence? 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 04, 2006, 08:46:47 AM
Dona wasn't very vain, unlike her husband as we are exploring in another thread right now. She might have been self centered, but I don't think she was vain. Perhaps that made it easier to get along with Wilhelm because she was willing to follow his image( all important to him), rather than make her own?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 05, 2006, 09:51:47 PM
The Diaries of Victoria and her letters to Vicky, Vicky to Sophie, the memoirs of Dona's sister, The Bio of Wilhelm by John Rohl ...The list goes on and on. The only redeeming info came from Dona's children (Young Wilhelm, his wife Cecile and Victoria Luise). So I guess she was quite a good mother.  :P
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 06, 2006, 09:16:18 AM
Well, Dona was, like all of us a combination. But she may well have been a more unattractive personality than she was an attractive one. I think the evidence largely supports that conclusion. She was a good mother, and had a good public image with the German people. But she was also ignorant, spiteful, and didn't care about other people's feelings sometimes.That is true. Perhaps she meatnt well, but...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 06, 2006, 12:27:38 PM
Thanks. I think she had good qualities and bad, and it's up to us to form our opinion of her and analyze her as we wish. She was most likely more bad than good, but she was in some ways a victim of the Prussian court which tainted everybodys personalities that came into contact with it. You can't rule out that when considering her. But it seems she had some not so great qualities, in herself as well.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: lababoc on October 06, 2006, 02:42:44 PM
I have a book by Edith Keen  SEVEN YEARS AT PRUSSIAN COURT she writes that she was a dresser for PRNCESS FREDERICK LEOPoLD of PRUSSIA ...the sister of Victoria Augusta    and sister  -  in  - law of the Duchess of Connaught...is that correct  ? and  what  was the name of the Princess ? she never mentions the Princess's name..and who was the PRNCE?...anyone?thanks
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 07, 2006, 01:49:04 PM
thank you very much  .....but still woul love to know her first name....do you know?

Do you mean Princess Frederick Leopold? Her name was Feodora Luise Sophie Adelheid Henriette Amalie (1866-1952); she married Prince Friedrich Leopold of Prussia (1865-1931) in June 1889. He was the only brother of Princess Louise, Duchess of Connaught. They were the children of Prince Friedrich Carl 'the Red Prince' of Prussia and Princess Marie of Anhalt. Their father was a not very pleasant character.

Prince and Princess Friedrich Leopold's son, Prince Friedrich Sigismund, married the granddaughter of King Frederick VIII of Denmark, Princess Louise of Schaumburg-Lippe.

There were a few links between Schleswig-Holstein and Denmark (apart from the territorial fighting) which brought the unwelcome presence of Kaiser Wilhelm II into the orbit of the Danish royal famiy. Besides Friedrich Sigismund and Louise there was also:

Prince Harold of Denmark (son of FVIII) and Helena of Schleswig-Holstein (niece of Dona). Harold also became brother-in-law to Dona's son, August Wilhelm, who married Helena's sister Alexandra Victoria.

Then the biggest link between the Prussian/Danish extended families (after the marriage of Sophie of Prussia and Constantine of Greece) came when Dona's only daughter, Victoria Louise, married Thyra Cumberland's only surviving son, Ernst August. Their only daughter, Frederika, in turn married Tino's son Paul.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 09, 2006, 10:22:03 PM
Vicky to QV July 16 1879:

'Willie is quite wild about Victoria! She is a most charming girl. Her figure is much prettier than her face, but her voice and walk and manner have something very sympathetic and agreeable and graceful which Calma is not though her head is decidedly the prettier of the two. Willie does not admire her.'

Vicky to QV Feb 13 1880:

[QV and Vicky had been exchanging letters regarding the hoped-for engagement and their anger at Bismarck for the calumnies he had spread about Fritz Holstein, Dona's father, who was one of Vicky and Fritz's closest friends. They felt that Bismarck had spitefully waited until Fritz died before allowing negotiations for the marriage to conclude.]

'...for she [Dona] is so sweet and sensible a girl that she must win all hearts and we shall be there to protect her and I hope will be able to do so.'

QV to Vicky Mar 17 1880:

'I write now to say that I have twice seen Ada's dear girls and think both dear and amiable as well as pretty. [They were visiting their uncle Christian and his wife, QV's daughter, Helena] Calma is the prettiest but Victoria has a sweet, winning smile. She is unlike Ada, but like in manner. She looks thoroughly amiable but rather delicate I should say. Calma's teeth spoil her a little. Victoria has beautiful teeth.'

QV to Vicky Mar 22 1880:

'Victoria has a very winning sweet manner which reminds me, as does her laugh, of poor Ada. I think she is well calculated to be an element of peace in ruffled waters. I have told her so and I should think she could not be otherwise than gentle. They have both charming manners in society and are beginning to be less alarmed I hope.'

Vicky to QV Mar 26 1880:

'I am so delighted that you think Victoria so gentle, and amiable, and sweet. She always struck me as such. Her smile and her manner and expression must disarm...'

Vicky to QV Mar 27 1880:

'I am very grateful for Willie's happiness--and sure dear Victoria will be a blessing to everyone because she is so gentle and good.'

QV to Vicky Mar 9 1881:

[Vicky had written descriptions of the wedding and said that Dona became 'prettier every day and turns everyone's head'.]

'You think dear Dona so pretty. We do not; nor do others. But sweet, gentle, graceful and ladylike.'
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 10, 2006, 11:51:13 AM
I guess some royals had a rather distorted view of Dona. Those quotes you so kindly posted speak about that. It is sad, because she later turned out to be much unlike she was described in these letters. Perhaps she was one to seem one thing to your face and another behind your back, although as well she could be quite openly mean. I think they were just naive about her, alas.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 10, 2006, 01:59:52 PM
I guess some royals had a rather distorted view of Dona. Those quotes you so kindly posted speak about that. It is sad, because she later turned out to be much unlike she was described in these letters. Perhaps she was one to seem one thing to your face and another behind your back, although as well she could be quite openly mean. I think they were just naive about her, alas.

Yes, the quotes GDElla has generoulsy shared do show a different angle to Dona than the tone that this thread is taking. I think these quotes are key. The relationship between Vicky and Dona was not a match made in heaven, for sure, but not the first mother in law/daughter in law relationship in history to be as such. Dona was clearly unpleasant and often wicked to beloved Vicky, who suffered greatly as a result. QV's somewhat famous "insignificant princess" line is obviously a lashing-out, perhaps deserved, but also clearly an exaggeration based on anger. QV supported her as the brideof her first born grandson! As stated earlier, Dona's children thought a great deal for her (some of Vicky's did not have the same respect for their own mother) and the Sophie episode is also an angry lashing out that does not necessarily define Dona's life or personality. If everyone who told someone to 'they're going to hell' is a bigot, we'd have an entire world of bigots, and that is a gross over simplifidation of how people interact and behave under pressure. From all the evidence, it seems Dona was motherly and simple and perhaps living in a 'fool's paradise' about the state of her nation and the world, and had a mean streak that showed itself occasionally especially toward Vicky. But she was not, IMO, the utter witch and worthless person that some of the posts seem to be painting her to have been. thanks for listening!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on October 10, 2006, 02:36:05 PM
Apparently when King Alfonso kindly asked Dona to intervene on Nurse Edith Cavells behalf she refused, saying women that behaved like men should be punished like men! Horrid!!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 10, 2006, 03:39:09 PM
I agree that not intervening on anyone's behalf to save their life is horrid, but I would ardently disagree that such intervention because of Cavell's gender makes Dona's position any more disappointing. Maybe Dona was decades ahead of her time in equal treatment of the sexes. I do not think there is a very long list of royals on any side of the world wars who intervened to save individual lives of prisoners who had been found guilty of a military crime, were there?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 11, 2006, 03:58:55 AM
Dona ahead of her time ??? Ha fat chance....really. She was also mean to her own sister and even Moretta wrote that Dona's ladies can be quite annoying. It was also known that both Charlotte and Irene did not get along with Dona. That leaves only Mossy...I think Dona was not the easiest woman to get along with, quite unlike Vicky's early glowing account.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 11, 2006, 08:58:37 AM
She was hard to get along with on a personal level. I think she wasn't worthless though, because she was a great mother to her many children, and she was a Kaiserin popular with the German public. She knew what to do in public, at least, and she made them believe in her. So many consorts didn't have that ability. She, could however, be very appalling in her behaviour in private. It's best to realize there were defintely two sides to her. She may not have been realistic-who knows? I never said she was worthless, just that she was difficult, which certainly doesn't make anybody worthless.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2006, 04:23:12 AM
No...I don't think Dona was worthless. She catered to the Junker audience and poster girl of the domestic household. It was just sd that she started quite sweet and ladylike and developed into a "mean, nasty and narrow-minded hag".  :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 12, 2006, 11:08:51 AM
Well, I am not sure she was a hag. ;) I think she was narrow minded, and could be mean. She did have some good in her, certainly. Being married to the Kaiser wasn't a picnic, and she survived. She was most likely much the same in youth as she was later, it might not just have come out yet.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 13, 2006, 09:34:48 AM
How can you be sure it was there always?

Dona was raised by one of Vicky & Fritz's closest friends and someone very alike in his thinking to them. Her life was one of simplicity due to the family's relative impoverished state. She could very well have been all that was written when she was a young woman. Arriving at a Court that must've been overwhelming in its splendour (though not on par with the Romanovs) where she was treated as practically the de facto Empress-in-waiting (since the ruling parties tried their best to build up Wilhelm and sideline Fritz and Vicky) could have easily turned a young girl's head and puffed her up with a sense of self-importance. Add to that the praise that quickly came her way for producing one heir after the other. Despite any earlier attitudes towards Vicky (whether she had any firm ones or not) she came into an environment that went out of its way to denegrate and humiliate the Crown Princess--this is who Dona was surrounded with and she may have quickly come to share their feelings. She wasn't given the opportunity to spend one-on-one time with Vicky--or Fritz. Wilhelm was there to pile on his list of grievances and, seeing as how her world revolved around him, hearing about his 'wretched' childhood and parents, what loyal wife wouldn't come to have a blackened viewpoint of her in-laws? It's not like Dona could just drop in on Vicky and chit-chat and get to know each other--the Prussian Court dictated almost everything. Plus, Vicky (who is tied with Ella as my favorite royal) inherited a good measure of her mother's blunt honesty and wasn't that circumspect in criticizing Dona both in letters and to her face. A girl quickly losing her figure due to constant child-bearing wouldn't necessarily take too kindly towards her mother-in-law critiquing her figure, her wardrobe, etc...

Now, as I said, Vicky is a favorite and Dona made my least favorite list. I just don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that her character was rotten from the start with no doubt.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on October 13, 2006, 12:15:30 PM
How can you be sure it was there always?

Dona was raised by one of Vicky & Fritz's closest friends and someone very alike in his thinking to them. Her life was one of simplicity due to the family's relative impoverished state. She could very well have been all that was written when she was a young woman. Arriving at a Court that must've been overwhelming in its splendour (though not on par with the Romanovs) where she was treated as practically the de facto Empress-in-waiting (since the ruling parties tried their best to build up Wilhelm and sideline Fritz and Vicky) could have easily turned a young girl's head and puffed her up with a sense of self-importance. Add to that the praise that quickly came her way for producing one heir after the other. Despite any earlier attitudes towards Vicky (whether she had any firm ones or not) she came into an environment that went out of its way to denegrate and humiliate the Crown Princess--this is who Dona was surrounded with and she may have quickly come to share their feelings. She wasn't given the opportunity to spend one-on-one time with Vicky--or Fritz. Wilhelm was there to pile on his list of grievances and, seeing as how her world revolved around him, hearing about his 'wretched' childhood and parents, what loyal wife wouldn't come to have a blackened viewpoint of her in-laws? It's not like Dona could just drop in on Vicky and chit-chat and get to know each other--the Prussian Court dictated almost everything. Plus, Vicky (who is tied with Ella as my favorite royal) inherited a good measure of her mother's blunt honesty and wasn't that circumspect in criticizing Dona both in letters and to her face. A girl quickly losing her figure due to constant child-bearing wouldn't necessarily take too kindly towards her mother-in-law critiquing her figure, her wardrobe, etc...

I just don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that her character was rotten from the start with no doubt.

Well-stated. Thumbs up. :) The words "sure" and "no doubt" regarding to the characters of the Royal persons (whom we never knew personally for example) sounds somewhat inaccurate.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 14, 2006, 12:08:54 PM
How can you be sure it was there always?

Dona was raised by one of Vicky & Fritz's closest friends and someone very alike in his thinking to them. Her life was one of simplicity due to the family's relative impoverished state. She could very well have been all that was written when she was a young woman. Arriving at a Court that must've been overwhelming in its splendour (though not on par with the Romanovs) where she was treated as practically the de facto Empress-in-waiting (since the ruling parties tried their best to build up Wilhelm and sideline Fritz and Vicky) could have easily turned a young girl's head and puffed her up with a sense of self-importance. Add to that the praise that quickly came her way for producing one heir after the other. Despite any earlier attitudes towards Vicky (whether she had any firm ones or not) she came into an environment that went out of its way to denegrate and humiliate the Crown Princess--this is who Dona was surrounded with and she may have quickly come to share their feelings. She wasn't given the opportunity to spend one-on-one time with Vicky--or Fritz. Wilhelm was there to pile on his list of grievances and, seeing as how her world revolved around him, hearing about his 'wretched' childhood and parents, what loyal wife wouldn't come to have a blackened viewpoint of her in-laws? It's not like Dona could just drop in on Vicky and chit-chat and get to know each other--the Prussian Court dictated almost everything. Plus, Vicky (who is tied with Ella as my favorite royal) inherited a good measure of her mother's blunt honesty and wasn't that circumspect in criticizing Dona both in letters and to her face. A girl quickly losing her figure due to constant child-bearing wouldn't necessarily take too kindly towards her mother-in-law critiquing her figure, her wardrobe, etc...

I just don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that her character was rotten from the start with no doubt.

Well-stated. Thumbs up. :) The words "sure" and "no doubt" regarding to the characters of the Royal persons (whom we never knew personally for example) sounds somewhat inaccurate.

Amen, and thank you both. The "Dona bashing" has gotten out of control; more like gossip than anything else. Thanks for the stabllizing, factual information GDElla to get this back on track.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 15, 2006, 08:33:27 PM
True...Although her attitude towards Vicky can be explained away easier, her hardness towards Willy's sisters, in-laws and even her own sister cannot be thus. The chorus of disaprroval within the family did not camoe only from Vicky (who could be difficult as times to get along). Charlotte (The Brat) was kind on being her enemy from day one, but Moretta, Sophie and Irene were not. At the end, only Mossy was on close terms with Dona, and that does explain sometthing about her. I agree that she is also in my list of least favourite of all royals.  :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 16, 2006, 12:18:22 PM
Well, we don't know what she was like at the begining. She may have been innocent, or she may have just seemed innocent due to her youth and circumstances. She was very untried; she was not known, and it may well have been easy to misjudgements on her character then. But at the same time, it is correct what you stated, that she may have been poisoned by later things. We can understand if she was. It is hard to say defintevely about Dona; perhaps that is why it is so interesting to debate her. She's not one of my least favourite royals-you have to give to her accolades as a mother and Kaiserin, and she had a very intriguing personality.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 17, 2006, 11:20:52 AM
Well, I think we should try to realize that Dona had her bad and good sides. Her bad side is what has been more remembered and repeated, and seems was the most obvious side of her in later life. When she was younger, it either wasn't there, or it wasn't so obvious. Perhaps she became more bitter with age, as some do. ;) I think she isn't that intriguing, I would not have wished to know her. But perhaps she was right for her circumstances.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 17, 2006, 03:42:41 PM
Well...I know that Dona dospised the Battenbergs. She felt it proper to write to QV to add her two sents when it was announced that Princess Beatrice was to marry Prince Henry of Battenberg. It earn her one of QV's most bitchy comment about Dona "that insignificant princess rasise to her current position by your (vicky's) kindness, I have no words".  >:(

Yes, but I don't know how the attitude carried over in later years. She certainly didn't seem to have a problem with May's morganatic blood and Ena and her siblings would've been in the same position. In fact, they would've been more elevated as grandchildren of Queen Victoria whereas May was a more distant relation.

Dona seemed to just parrot whatever Wilhelm was saying at the time. He was especially vicious towards Sandro Battenberg and I don't think it had as much to do with their bloodlines as the fact that it was a way to really strike at his mother. John Rohl did a good write-up of this in his book. Henry & Beatrice got caught up in that whirlwind of familial discord. The Prussian Court did disparage the Battenbergs but I think WII's feelings were more personal. And, if Wilhelm was against it, of course Dona would be as well.  :P Later on, he was one of the closest friends of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and, unlike many in Europe, was unfailingly kind to his wife, Sophie, who was less well-born than the Battenbergs. He could put aside feelings towards people's bloodlines when it suited him.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 18, 2006, 08:30:04 AM
That's hard to believe of the Kaiser; I think he wasn't always as pompous and boring as he appeared though. Perhaps he knew how to express himself no other way, and he didn't realize that he should. He liked to mask his inner insecurities by appearing grand and very military on the outside. Dona did follow whatever he wanted, often not good things, I might add. But, if you were married to him, it must have been hard not follow his lead, I would think. Dona also had that personality, where she was more than happy to follow.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 18, 2006, 08:41:15 AM
Which part is hard to believe?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 18, 2006, 09:00:05 AM
Here's what Alice Athlone (daughter of Prince Leopold and first cousin to the Kaiser) had to say in her memoirs:

[This was upon their arrival in Germany to help get Charlie set up to take his position as Duke of Coburg] 'Much of our spare time was taken up with the imperial family, because the Neues Palace was close by and not a week passed without our going there. William was naturally kind and generous and I found his Empress...and their children a delightful family....We did not see much of the Kaiser except on formal occasions, when I found him shy-making, which I think he enjoyed. The Kaiserin, dona, on the other hand, was most affable and kind. She was very tall and nice-looking and immaculately dressed, with a very tight waist that seemed to give her a flushed face and made it difficult for her to sit in an easy chair. I think her exceptional height worried William, who always sat on a cushion at table, as he did not like her to appear the taller....Dona felt for us in the restrictions we suffered owing to Mother's exaggerated regard for mourning, due in this instance to the death of her step-aunt of Wied. Dona offered to chaperone me herself to a dance, but Mother would not hear of it. She took me riding with her on a military occasion, which was fun. I was very fond of her.'

'Dona had dedicated her whole life to William, who, like the average husband, took advantage of her devotion. She became a thoroughly downtrodden wife. William frequently hauled her out of bed before dawn and made her ride with him for miles to attend manoeuvres or similar military exercises. When his sons grew old he insisted on them accompanying him...until the Kaiserin, realizing that it was putting too great a strain on her chidlren, sacrificed herself by joining William...Afterwards, tired out as she was, she would take her boys out for a less strenuous ride, so that their father could not complain that they were poor horseman from lack of practice.'

'The Kaiserin's ladies-in-waiting were formidable females of whom I felt rather afraid, as she always seemed to accept their decisions. Countess Brockdorf, quite a a charming woman in herself, was a most haughty, ultra-conservative dictator of fashion at the Court. She helld little courts in her apartments at the Palace...all for the purpose of deciding herself whether or not their should be encouraged at Court...Another was the Countess Matilda...She was a wholly nice woman, but very goody-good. The boys and I nicknamed her Sancta Mafalda.'

[Upon the Imperial family visiting Britian in 1911 for the unveiling of the memorial to Queen Victoria] 'Later I took them [her children May and Rupert and her nephew Leopold] to see the Kaiserin. She gave Rupert a ride astride on her leg, boucing him up and down, in her usual sweet way with children.'
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Marc on October 18, 2006, 10:10:26 AM
Do you know,by chance,who is this Countess Mathilde?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 18, 2006, 10:55:50 AM
Alice didn't say--she said that 'her other name I have forgotten'.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 18, 2006, 03:40:39 PM
Thanks GDElla for this very interesting look at Dona through the eyes of a person who was with her. While there is much to dislike about Dona, she clearly made a very positive impression from the beginning and throughout her life with WII. As such, I think she must have been at the top of her game; she is always talked about in terms of her doing unbelievable things to accomodate WII and the children and handle many agendas behind the scenes. In this regard, she reminds me of Lady Bird Johnson.

Another interesting item that helps validate Alice's points is in portraits. Several family portraits show Dona "in action" reaching out to a dog or child or bouncing a child. I have never seen other formal royal portraits that show such animation and sense or "real person".

Regarding WII's kindly character, it is most believeable. he definitely was bi-polar (it seems) as he had many very sensitive and compassionate moments documented such as when QV was dying, attempts to rescue Ella, surprise visits to Vicky, efforts to calm the reactions to the assasination of Franz Ferdinand, not to mention his kindnesses to Sophie.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 18, 2006, 11:56:40 PM
You mean the time Sophie converted to Orthodoxy ? He wrote to QV "If my poor child dies it must be Sophie who killed it !" (dona had a shouting match with Sophie who told her she would end up in hell, Sophie banged the door after her. The result is that dona had a premature birth. Willy later forbid Sophie to visit her mother for a while.

I think Dona was a good mother and an admirable Kaiserin. However, she could be mean to those whom she think erred in her own strict moral code. A nuinsence to her own extended family (Moretta, Sophie, Vicky and even Heinrich and Irene).  ???
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 19, 2006, 11:06:09 AM
Actually, if you examine things, I think although the Kaiser on the surface was perhaps more guilty of odious behaviour than was Dona, it was the Kaiser who may have had the better side. He defintely was many things you don't want to be, and not many people liked him. Essentially, he was harmless, but often people interpreted his actions in a different light, and he paid for that. And some of his actions had more to with boasting than anything else. Dona had some good qualities, but they weren't really in her personality. She seems to have been difficult to know, I will say the the Kaiser and Dona were quite the couple. ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 19, 2006, 04:46:10 PM
No, to Sophie (wife of Archduke Franz Ferdinand) to whom Wilhelm extended the courtesy of treating as the Empress-to-be rather than the morganatic wife she was. FF never forgot this (they received the same treatment in England) and it meant a good deal to the couple.

It was stated that he was good to Sophie (Austria) and rotten to his sister Sophie so I'm sure HerrKaiser figured that it would be obvious which one he referred to.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Decadence on October 22, 2006, 01:24:42 PM
The last Kaiserin, first wife of Kaiser Wilhelm II


I have never heard much about her, although she was of so much importance in history as the wife of the man who abdicated Germany and lost world war one due to his famous eagerness to have a war, I have never heard much about Augusta-Viktoria von Schleswig-Holstein-Sondenburg-Augustenburg - I read that when The Tsar and Tsarina met her, they thought her old-fashioned and tasteless, but what was she really like? What was her personality? In some pictures she seems quite serene, or quite a happy individual?


Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 22, 2006, 09:04:51 PM
Well...I personally do not think Dona dressed that bad. I liked the way she grew into her role. Her later photos looked majestic and regal.  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 24, 2006, 11:11:06 AM
I don't think we can answer for sure what Dona's personality was. If you read this thread, you can read about her bad and good side. Everyone, ( or most people), have something that can be learned from them. You can learn somethimg from Dona's life, both bad and good. In many sources, it seems she was more bad than good. Indeed, it seems this was the case, and I am not sure many of us would have wished to have known her. But, she did have good parts of her, as well. I am not sure there is ever anybody who we can know what they were really like. It does seem sometimes that people's opinion depends on the person giving the opinion more than it does on what the person they are giving the opinion about is actually like. ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 24, 2006, 06:40:01 PM
Of all the hundreds of photos of royals during the late 1800s and early 1900s, Dona is one of the very few (Alix being another with baby Olga and Nicky) who casts a smile or grin on a picture or two; a refreshingly rare indication of a kindly personality or at least a desire to be thought of so.l
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 25, 2006, 12:04:35 PM
She was a good mother, something that actually helped her public image as Kaiserin, because a good German wife was also supposed to be a good mother. But she always did it in a personal way, because she was a good mother, and not with an eye toward ''public relations'' at all. I am not sure if she had a kindly personality in general, but she probably had one towards her children.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 25, 2006, 09:30:09 PM
I think that side of her was the most natural one. After she married Willy, she sought to change to adapt to the Prussian Court. Dona was a dutiful granddaughter-in-law to Kaiserin Augusta and friend to her daughter, Grand Duchess Luise of Baden (both were unfriendly towards Vicky).  :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 26, 2006, 08:45:56 AM
She was a good mother, something that actually helped her public image as Kaiserin, because a good German wife was also supposed to be a good mother. But she always did it in a personal way, because she was a good mother, and not with an eye toward ''public relations'' at all. I am not sure if she had a kindly personality in general, but she probably had one towards her children.

If by "public relations" you are meaning her image and relations with the public at large, ie the citizens of the German Empire, the data seems to indicate that Dona was very good at this. She was very popular and conducted an extensive amount of philantropic work in the communities. I think the major criticisms of her on this board and in her time was not her public image, rather her family image.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 26, 2006, 11:03:49 AM
Yes, she had a great public image. What I was saying was, that her being a good mother was personal and genuine, not something she did because it would make her look better as a good Kaiserin. I think it was in her relations with people that she could be difficult, and not in areas such as motherhood or public image. She had good traits, I am not try to bash her, but just be realistic about the historical truth of her personality.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 26, 2006, 10:28:29 PM
Yes...It is her private image we are bashing here. It seemed she wasn't very successful with members of Willy's family. Also I heard she did not like the influence of his "English" relatives (that included of course "Grandmama Queen").  :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 27, 2006, 09:23:50 AM
Well, none of the Prussian royal family liked any English influence. She was just following the official line there, although no doubt she also privately agreed with it, I can see that. She was vindictive at times, as some people are. Her private image was indeed the problem, not her public image. She was said to be badly dressed in youth, referencing that tthose photos of her someone posted. Also, in Greg King's recent book, there is something about how she was wearing a silly hat to meet the IF once-it's a quote that suggests her royal relatives were a bit amused by her.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 27, 2006, 10:22:24 PM
Yes...Alix did not like her at all. When she and Bertie when to visit Berlin, she was very amused when the horses refused to move (she was in the same carriage as Dona and smiled the way through), much to the embaressment of her nephew Willy.  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 30, 2006, 08:23:13 PM
NII wrote to his mother in 1897:

'...while she [Dona] tried to be charming and looked very ugly in rich clothes chosen without taste; the hats she wore in the evenings...were particulary impossible. It was rumored here that the Empress is very much under the influence of her ladies-in-waiting, especially Countess B., and that all the latter disapproves of the Empress also dislikes.'

There was a rather unattractive aspect of the Danish royal family and that is a tendency towards mockery of others--MF and Queen Alexandra were both guilty of this and it was passed on to some of QA's daughters and, on occasion, Nicholas. In a latter letter, MF mocks the trip that Wilhelm and Dona took to the Holy Land as being all 'done out of sheer vanity, so as to be talked about!...all this is perfectly ridiculous and has no trace of religious feeling...' The 'hypocrisy' of this religious experience was, of course, tied in to MF's complaints about the treatment of those in Schleswig-Holstein, 'who had done nothing wrong and whose only fault was that they were Danes'. How charming it all is--but it won't bring him any luck!'

He did remark in a letter to MF that Wilhelm and Dona's children all seemed very well brought-up.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 30, 2006, 08:57:35 PM
I don't think it was an unattractive trait, I think instead it was very amusing to make fun of those whom you dislike then to bred ill-will and discord in relationships. That is why the Gluckborgs were able to get along with almost everybody as they hid their dislike under a cloak of laughter and ridicule.  ;D
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 30, 2006, 11:05:07 PM
To me it was an unattractive trait because it often centered on people's appearances or demeanor--May's shyness, 'Aunt Swan's' unattractiveness, etc...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 31, 2006, 12:43:32 AM
We agree to disagree here. I like there is always laughter in Gluckborg houshold instead of the sad ones in Windsor and Berlin.  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 31, 2006, 07:43:11 AM
Well, they're not mutually exclusive. No family is without it's less admirable traits.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 31, 2006, 09:13:22 AM
True...although the tight family relations of the Gluckborgs invoked admiration even QV herself. The Hohenzollerns were more like a barrack than a family... :(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on October 31, 2006, 10:14:23 AM
NII wrote to his mother in 1897:

'...while she [Dona] tried to be charming and looked very ugly in rich clothes chosen without taste; the hats she wore in the evenings...were particulary impossible. It was rumored here that the Empress is very much under the influence of her ladies-in-waiting, especially Countess B., and that all the latter disapproves of the Empress also dislikes.'

There was a rather unattractive aspect of the Danish royal family and that is a tendency towards mockery of others--MF and Queen Alexandra were both guilty of this and it was passed on to some of QA's daughters and, on occasion, Nicholas. In a latter letter, MF mocks the trip that Wilhelm and Dona took to the Holy Land as being all 'done out of sheer vanity, so as to be talked about!...all this is perfectly ridiculous and has no trace of religious feeling...' The 'hypocrisy' of this religious experience was, of course, tied in to MF's complaints about the treatment of those in Schleswig-Holstein, 'who had done nothing wrong and whose only fault was that they were Danes'. How charming it all is--but it won't bring him any luck!'

He did remark in a letter to MF that Wilhelm and Dona's children all seemed very well brought-up.

That's the quote that I was looking for. I think they did make fun of each other in that way, and were playful among themselves in such a way. It was said that the Danish Royal Family and others had a rather childish sense of humour. I am pretty sure of that, and that could be why their sense of humour focused on people's appearance in general, and not just Dona's appearance.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 31, 2006, 03:21:17 PM
True...although the tight family relations of the Gluckborgs invoked admiration even QV herself. The Hohenzollerns were more like a barrack than a family... :(

I never said they weren't close or a wonderful family--just that they could indulge in mockery of others.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 31, 2006, 07:30:19 PM
So were the Wittelsbachs...Empress Sisi wrote to her son Rudolf after meeting Dagmar that she "looked like a monkey."  ;D
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 01, 2006, 09:44:57 AM
So were the Wittelsbachs...Empress Sisi wrote to her son Rudolf after meeting Dagmar that she "looked like a monkey."  ;D

Is your point that the Wittlesbachs were overall as a family similar to the Gluckborgs in regards to their penchant towards mockery of others? Or are you referring to a one-liner that nearly everyone spews for, now and again?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 01, 2006, 01:09:13 PM
So their making fun of Dona was part of a larger pattern of how they acted as a family, and not really anything to do with her as a person. Or, if you debate that, what did it have more to do with? Her as a person, or the family way of doing things? I think Dona did lend herself to this kind of humour though, as did her husband. Both of them could be silly, perhaps because they were taking themselves SO seriously. The Kaiser was worse in that department, though than his wife.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on November 01, 2006, 05:37:26 PM
It was both, in my opinion. Dona was basically everything that the Danish royals didn't like--not particularly attractive, uptight, overly religious and not just Prussian (by marriage) but also the daughter of the claimant to the Duchies of Schleswig-Holstein (which the Danish royals all thought 'belonged to Papa'). As such, she would be a likely candidate for their brand of mockery, much like they levelled at their sister-in-law Queen Louise--who resembled Dona physically and personality-wise a good deal.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2006, 05:48:46 PM
Yes...Dona & "Swan" had a lot in common. However "Swan" was rich, so they forgave her on that score.  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 02, 2006, 10:58:09 AM
Yes, it could have been both that caused them to make fun of Dona in this way. I wonder if she recieved hints of it, or knew of it? She seems like the type who would not have cared had she known. She most likely understood the family sense of humour although, but applied to her, it was perhaps not funny. As for the Kaiser, he took himself so seriously that he would most likely not have known if anyone made fun of him.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 02, 2006, 08:24:19 PM
Dona I don't think got the jokes, but Willy was close to spot if he had been slighted. The smirk on Alix's face after the houses died on their carraige did enraged Willy, as he felt the lost of face in this particular incident (as Alix was a well known rider).  ::)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 02, 2006, 08:25:10 PM
Sorry I mean horses not houses. I type too fast sometimes.  :P
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 03, 2006, 10:42:24 AM
I agree, I don't think Dona got the jokes, at all. She was pretty serious about herself, and I am sure didn't know how to laugh at herself, even if laughing at somebody else laughing at her, is a stretch. She would have been offended, I am sure by it had she understood. She seems like that type of person. Willy was perhaps a bit more self aware than she, but not much.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 03, 2006, 10:45:51 PM
Indeed...I don't think Dona spent much time with the Gluckborg family (who was more anti-German than the English one).  ::)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 06, 2006, 08:54:35 AM
So, if she didn't spend much time with them, it might have been hard for her to get their sense of humour, or understand their jokes. I think she took herself pretty seriously, and didn't want to laugh at herself, even if some of those jokes were not the type were you could use them to laugh at yourself. The Danish royal family were pretty much German, but you are right they didn't much appreciate that fact. Dona was quite a German type, as well as her blood being German, or I should say, she was very Prussian.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 06, 2006, 08:34:19 PM
True...Although by blood Dona was more closely related to the Glucksborgs than to the Prussian Royal Family (Hohenzollern). In fact her sister Calma married the nephew of King Christian IX.  ::)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on November 06, 2006, 09:46:12 PM
I think it might've been the fact that her father was a claimant to the Duchies of Schleswig-Holstein (always the subject of much rancor in the extended royal families) that worked against Dona even more than marrying a Prussian. Alexandra had a very difficult time when her sister-in-law Helena married Dona's uncle Christian and, while Marie Louise and Helena Victoria were well-liked enough, that relationship between the sisters-in-law was never a comfortable one. Combing that with the fact that Wilhelm was disliked for various reasons apart from his being a Prussian, there was just no way Dona could become a popular figure with the family. When Wilhelm made some of his unwelcome visits to the Danish and Greek royals, it doesn't seem that Dona accompanied him much.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 06, 2006, 09:54:25 PM
Yes...Dona did not go to Denmark, although she did accopany him to Greece (another Gluckborg throne).  ::)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 07, 2006, 12:57:29 PM
I think it might've been the fact that her father was a claimant to the Duchies of Schleswig-Holstein (always the subject of much rancor in the extended royal families) that worked against Dona even more than marrying a Prussian. Alexandra had a very difficult time when her sister-in-law Helena married Dona's uncle Christian and, while Marie Louise and Helena Victoria were well-liked enough, that relationship between the sisters-in-law was never a comfortable one. Combing that with the fact that Wilhelm was disliked for various reasons apart from his being a Prussian, there was just no way Dona could become a popular figure with the family. When Wilhelm made some of his unwelcome visits to the Danish and Greek royals, it doesn't seem that Dona accompanied him much.

You are quite right about the Kaiser, and with the issue you mentioned, whatever her personality was or she was, she would not have been popular, you are right. She did have, though, a personality that worked against her at times. Had she been some beautiful, cultured woman, one wonders how the family would have acted. In that case, there would not have been so much to laugh at, but it is likely she would not have been popular..
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 07, 2006, 07:47:25 PM
Well lets just say that Dona was a good mother, a dutiful wife that adaqutely fulfilled her obligations and duties as a Kaiserin. I think Bismark was really in the know when he referred Dona as "the cow from Holstein". Dona's unpopularity seemed to be mostly within the outer family (the brother and sisters of Wilhelm and their English and Danish cousins).
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 08, 2006, 12:46:03 PM
Yes, what you said is true.Dona didn't always have a perfect reputation, nor was she perfect, but she had her good points. I think she wasn't popular, but she might have been seen more for her bad qualities and associations than her good ones. She was one that you might not not want to know up close and personal, but rather admire her good qualities, find those stories of her and her hats amusing, and remember that she could be a bit difficult.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 08, 2006, 07:55:28 PM
I think Dona was very hard because she always had to behave as she was suppose to. Both Vicky and her sister (who married into Prussia) said that of her. Vicky seem to think that Dona was rude to her later out of habit and expectation than real conviction. As Willy mellowed into some what of a relationship with Vicky, Dona also tried to be nicer to her... ???
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 09, 2006, 11:24:24 AM
Yes, she seemed to have followed her husband's lead in pretty much everything. She might not have been the kindest or most understanding of women, but the fact of her husband's rude behaviour was something that no doubt encouraged her to act like this as well. She may even have felt obligated, because the Kaiser surely expected her to follow his lead. You made some very interesting observations.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 09, 2006, 10:49:49 PM
Indeed...If one thinks back, Dona really did not have much of an axe to grind about Vicky (other than the advice that the younger woman no doubt thought tiresome). She followed Willy and idenfify with his likes and dislikes fully.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 10, 2006, 06:58:04 AM
 ???
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: imperial angel on November 10, 2006, 09:52:50 AM
Indeed...If one thinks back, Dona really did not have much of an axe to grind about Vicky (other than the advice that the younger woman no doubt thought tiresome). She followed Willy and idenfify with his likes and dislikes fully.

Yes, I think that is true and sums it up. But, maybe her own personal feelings caused her to act that way as well, towards Vicky? Dona was a interesting woman, but she could be difficult, and often it's hard to assess her motivation. It is hard to know why she made the choices she did, although she certainly made them, for whatever reason. I don't think we will ever completely know why she acted the way she did.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Laura_ on November 10, 2006, 10:02:47 AM
???

yeah i agree  :-[ :-X
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 10, 2006, 08:00:39 PM
Indeed. Dona was a complex woman, although appeared to be simple on the surface. It would help if there were letters and diares of her to study.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on November 10, 2006, 11:10:30 PM
Victoria Louise wrote that her mother kept daily journals of all her children's activities. It wouldn't deal with political events but the writings (and the way they were written) could probably shed some light onto Dona's character--at least in respect to her children. Being that busy (with 7 children to each document daily!) I wonder if she even had time for her own diary/journal.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Elodie on November 29, 2006, 10:19:39 AM
I hope this hasn't been asked elsewhere, but can anyone point me to any photographs of Dona taken before her engagement to Wilhelm?  Also, are there any photographs of her parents, siblings from these earlier years?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on November 29, 2006, 10:04:13 PM
It was from this site:

http://www.neisse-nysa-nisa.de/Primkenau.htm

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Lucien on December 23, 2006, 10:14:22 AM
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/seegerpress-cgi/topixx?op=preview&ID=1070656223&str...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: TampaBay on January 05, 2007, 06:23:44 AM
I always felt Dona look years older than William.  Was she a blonde or did she go gray early?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 05, 2007, 05:29:15 PM
Dona's hair become totally white at a premature stage of her life. No matter how many people claim that white hair looks "distinguished", the fact is that it adds 10 years to a person's appearance, in my opinion, and as such, she tended in the pre-war period to look as if she had some years on WII. However, her skin seems to have retained a healthy, youthful appearance and she generally looks good, to me, in most of her photos. In fact, perfectly regal.

WII during the war clearly aged dramatically and became an old man by 1918, much like Nicky.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Laura_ on January 06, 2007, 02:42:38 PM
Dona's hair become totally white at a premature stage of her life. No matter how many people claim that white hair looks "distinguished", the fact is that it adds 10 years to a person's appearance

just like Queen Elisabeth of Romania ...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2007, 07:53:13 PM
Carman Sylver ? Yes...indeed !  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Laura_ on January 08, 2007, 03:24:18 PM
Carman Sylver ? Yes...indeed !  ;)

actually it's "Carmen Sylva"  but yeah i think Dona resembles her but only from this point of view  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: ashdean on January 10, 2007, 09:43:20 AM
Dona was a good mother and a decent human being but sadly narrow & as dull as ditchwater..but I have no doubt her husband would not have changed her for the world !!!. Her last years were particulary sad...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 10, 2007, 08:07:16 PM
Yes...Exile and the death of her son finished her off.  :'(
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 12, 2007, 04:33:12 PM
Wasn't she forbidden from attending her sons funeral? That must have been hard......
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2007, 10:34:48 PM
Wasn't she forbidden from attending her sons funeral? That must have been hard......

I don't know if she was forbidden or not. She wasn't forced into exile, unlike Wilhelm, she stayed with him voluntarily--unlike Crown Princess Cecile who chose to stay in Germany rather than go with the Crown Prince. I would imagine she could've returned but perhaps chose not to for personal reasons. I don't think that not attending the funeral itself hit nearly as hard as the death in general.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 16, 2007, 10:33:38 AM
Wasn't she forbidden from attending her sons funeral? That must have been hard......

I don't know if she was forbidden or not. She wasn't forced into exile, unlike Wilhelm, she stayed with him voluntarily--unlike Crown Princess Cecile who chose to stay in Germany rather than go with the Crown Prince. I would imagine she could've returned but perhaps chose not to for personal reasons. I don't think that not attending the funeral itself hit nearly as hard as the death in general.

Yes, this is true. According to people I've talked to Dona was so extremely depressed that she did not want to return for the funeral, rather to remember her son and things as they once were. Not an uncommon reaction to a series of tragedies that culminate in the unnatural death of one's child. Further, and I know I'm the only one with positive views of Dona in addition to her downsides, her accompanying William to Holland was truly a royal act. at the end of the war, there was much 'every man/woman for himself' going on amongst German and Russian royals, and Dona took the semi martyr approach leaving everything behind which I think was quite noble and worthy of great respect if not admiration.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 16, 2007, 12:41:08 PM
That's interesting. I read in "Queen Victorias granchildren" that she was forbidden from attending.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 16, 2007, 06:50:02 PM
Who did the book say forbade her from attending? thanks!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: gogm on February 20, 2007, 01:15:58 PM
How about (click on each image to expand it):
(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/53/553/4/31/37/2647431370094285158hsSbFA_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2647431370094285158hsSbFA)

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/57/457/4/71/2/2907471020094285158KvtInx_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2907471020094285158KvtInx)

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/53/753/2/88/4/2960288040094285158NxRnNW_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2960288040094285158NxRnNW)

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/59/759/2/88/25/2839288250094285158XKonnv_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2839288250094285158XKonnv)

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/53/753/6/23/3/2532623030094285158HOHrCX_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2532623030094285158HOHrCX)

and
(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/58/158/4/2/79/2338402790094285158yLcRbY_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2338402790094285158yLcRbY)
 :) :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Vasiliy on February 20, 2007, 02:03:15 PM
(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/oldenburg/slhsondaugustenburg/1858%20Auguste%20Viktoria-08.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: KarlandZita on February 21, 2007, 12:03:34 PM
Let's collect here so many Dona's photos as it is possible!


Here are two :


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/kaiserin.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/dona1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on February 22, 2007, 03:58:16 PM

There's also this engagement series:

(http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/webpages/Wilhelm+Augusta+.jpg)

There were several poses together and some of Dona individually.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on February 22, 2007, 07:44:56 PM
Im sure this is posted elsewere but...since you asked Vasiliy.

My favorite photo of Dona..
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/loali2/dona1.jpg)


and with her sister Karoline Mathilde (FROM EBAY)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/loali2/dona4.jpg)

kinda big..sorry.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Vasiliy on February 24, 2007, 03:43:31 AM
(http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/webpages/Kaiserin%20mit%20Prinz%20Joachim%20u.%20Prinzessin%20Victoria%20Luise%201907.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Vasiliy on February 24, 2007, 03:57:54 AM
(http://www.adels-archiv.de/fotos/009/009-0304.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Vasiliy on February 24, 2007, 04:03:51 AM
A lot of Dona's you can see at   http://www.adels-archiv.de/historisch_adels_bildarchiv/bildarchiv.php4?MenuSuchbegriff=PersonNr_11&id=3a52bf2fcc7e194621338052da2b6f08&PHPSESSID=3a52bf2fcc7e194621338052da2b6f08
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 24, 2007, 11:40:16 AM
very nice collection of photos on that site. thanks Vasily. I wish the photos, however, were identified in terms of where, when, and the occasion.

by the by...the postcard about on which both Dona and Willie sign their names, she spelled Victoria with a "c" and not a "k". Did she and other German royals interchangeably use the c and k at whim? Or was there one correct way that is not always used?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on February 24, 2007, 02:59:16 PM
I always liked this one, from the site:

(http://www.adels-archiv.de/fotos/009/009-0020.jpg)

They do mis-identify #33 as Dona when it was Empress Augusta, consort of Wilhelm I.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: gogm on February 24, 2007, 07:00:15 PM
Which site?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on February 24, 2007, 09:18:52 PM
Sorry, the one vasiliy linked to.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Agneschen on February 25, 2007, 02:11:27 AM

and with her sister Karoline Mathilde (FROM EBAY)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/loali2/dona4.jpg)


Are you sure it is Calma with Dona on this pic ? The other woman looks strangely like Kronprinzessin Stephanie of Austria to me  ???
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on February 25, 2007, 02:22:05 AM

Are you sure it is Calma with Dona on this pic ? The other woman looks strangely like Kronprinzessin Stephanie of Austria to me  ???

This picture is always indentified as "Dona and Calma". But the second woman (at left) is Stephanie of course no doubt.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Linnea on February 25, 2007, 06:40:13 AM
It might have been this picture Wilhelm refered to when he said he wanted Dona to be a little rounder like Stéphanie. ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on February 25, 2007, 08:56:51 PM
sorry about the mis identification. I was'nt actually sure it was her sister, who I have not seen many images of. Now that I look at her again I can see that it is Stephanie.

oops.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: gogm on March 04, 2007, 10:17:36 PM
This board made me aware of eBay postcard sales. Here are some pictures from those (click on the images to expand):

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/57/457/5/85/99/2293585990094285158bHcrdW_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2293585990094285158bHcrdW)

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/58/158/3/89/41/2672389410094285158kdjxWD_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2672389410094285158kdjxWD)

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/59/559/8/82/54/2596882540094285158bowfBV_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2596882540094285158bowfBV)

(http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/59/559/3/77/25/2688377250094285158BXRUUx_th.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2688377250094285158BXRUUx)

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Speedycat on April 08, 2007, 05:59:55 PM
I haven't posted photos in a while, so I hope this works........................

(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/461/dona1fy5.jpg)


(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/2723/dona2eq9.jpg)


(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3469/dona3km0.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on April 09, 2007, 01:55:43 AM
The last pic I've never seen. I guess she was unmarried when the photo was taken.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 11, 2007, 04:50:50 PM
yes, it could have been pre marriage. Doesn't she look sweet and innocent? In fact, she has a longing appeal that must have been what Vicky thought endearing.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Mary R. on May 20, 2007, 12:34:46 PM

I read somewhere that Dona played the clarinet and very well too! Thought that was interesting.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 20, 2007, 01:02:20 PM
I think this was from the visit that Wilhelm, Dona and some of the children, including VL, paid to England to unveil the statue to Queen Victoria in London. There was speculation at the time that perhaps an engagement might be brewing between David and Victoria Louise.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Mary R. on May 20, 2007, 02:21:21 PM
I think you're right. I wonder what year this picture's from? A few years before the war perhaps?
There was speculation at the time that perhaps an engagement might be brewing between David and Victoria Louise.
I never knew that grandduchessella, I wonder what would have happened if those rumors had come true!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on April 27, 2008, 12:42:52 PM
This thread focuses on Wilhelm II's spouse, Kaiserin Augusta of Prussia ....

(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9713/newaugustano8.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 28, 2008, 09:51:57 AM
If there had been some indications that VL and David were a possible marriage item, did they maintain any relationship after WWI? Did David attend the funeral of Dona?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 06, 2008, 02:06:48 PM
Kaiserin Auguste's mother, Adelaide of Holstein-Augustenburg
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1544/adelaideofholsteinauguscr1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 06, 2008, 05:25:48 PM
There's a thread on Dona's family:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,1707.105.html

It hasn't been posted on in awhile but there are some nice portraits of Adelaide on it. The thread is for Dona's parents, siblings, etc...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 07, 2008, 06:07:28 AM
There's a thread on Dona's family:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,1707.105.html

It hasn't been posted on in awhile but there are some nice portraits of Adelaide on it. The thread is for Dona's parents, siblings, etc...

Sorry about that,   :-[  - I'll try to stay on topic next time    :P
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 07, 2008, 10:53:46 AM
Don't worry about it--it wasn't meant as a chastisement. However, if people are interested, it has many good pictures and has been dormant for awhile--just ripe for a 'bump up'.  :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on May 07, 2008, 01:55:51 PM
Are there any pictures of Augusta when she was a child?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 08, 2008, 08:04:41 AM
Are there any pictures of Augusta when she was a child?

I'm sure there are tons of photos of her when young ... you'll most likely find them in books or things of that nature  ;)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 08, 2008, 09:43:48 AM
It's actually rather difficult--I have have older German bios dedicated to her, including a memorial one, and there are very few.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 08, 2008, 11:09:28 AM
It's actually rather difficult--I have have older German bios dedicated to her, including a memorial one, and there are very few.

Really?  :o    I had no idea that her photos are so rare ... I wonder why since her family was not that seclusive *  :-\ *
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on May 08, 2008, 12:59:09 PM
Really?
i figured as much...as i do not recall ever seeing a picture of Dona past the age of like...18 ..or from around the time she married Wilhelm
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 08, 2008, 01:26:18 PM
there are several good photos of her from previous postings in her adult years.

her childhood family environment was not one of great affluence, and along with the fact that photography was in its beginning stages during her youth (and hence quite costly), her parents probably did not have the means to record their childrens' images.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 09, 2008, 09:44:55 PM
I there there are quite a fewof them (one I saw in the new Royalty Digest). I also got a postcard....Not too much indeed. I wonder if the family archievs will have more ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on May 10, 2008, 12:39:26 AM
I wonder...that if they would be open to the public...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 10, 2008, 07:14:09 AM
I think it would be open to researchers, but I don't think to the public. Not enough interest from the general public I guess.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 10, 2008, 08:01:01 AM
I there there are quite a fewof them (one I saw in the new Royalty Digest). I also got a postcard....Not too much indeed. I wonder if the family archievs will have more ?

Possibly--I just don't think there are many floating around out there outside of the archives. I have a couple pre-marriage but the family, in addition to being relatively poor, just wasn't that significant (as QV noted during a quarrel with Wilhelm & Dona).
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 11, 2008, 08:24:31 PM
Not a lot...but I think some in archievs. Do remember they have relatives that need to update the growth of the girls. When they became young women it is important to marry them off. A photo is sorely needed. Also they were actually well off before the war. After that the fortune went down. It was because of that Vicky promoted the Augustenburg girls then other candidates (like Ella) as a wife for Willy.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on June 26, 2008, 10:06:11 AM
In Huis Doorn (in the Netherlands), where Dona and Wilhelm lived in exile, you can also see Dona's bed- and bathroom. In her bedroom is a painting of her bedroom when she lay in state, with flags and flowers. In these rooms are also a lot of pictures and paintings of her. They're very personal decorated.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 10, 2008, 05:59:44 PM
Germans were first to develop quality color printing and created what was essentially the first advertising medium called Trade Cards. Such cards flourished in the U.S. from about 1880 to 1900. Dona appeared on one, with the company using a play on words--the company was the Princess Plow Company in Ohio. Here is the card.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/Donainadvertising.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on July 11, 2008, 12:38:19 AM
So that card of Dona was issued in a brief period of Friedrich III's reign. Very flattering picture.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on July 17, 2008, 09:43:39 AM
These are some links to photos of Dona with her children:

http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0249
(with her four eldest)

http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0246
(with the new-born Prince Oskar in 1888 and the other four sons)

http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0242
(all the children in with their parents, in 1896. Look at Dona ! :P)

http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0244
(Willy and Dona with all their children in 1894)


Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Russka Princess on July 24, 2008, 02:54:45 AM
i know Dona is not  a beauty like Ella, Alix or Zinaida yussopov but  i think she has in her heart something good. Mabe she was not a good empress but a good mother and wife.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 24, 2008, 10:00:12 AM
Actually, she was good at all three--wife, mother, and empress. She failed as daughter-in-law, but 3 out of 4 isn't bad.

On measurements/evaluations of spouses of monarchs, Dona was quite remarkable. She had massive amounts of energy that she put to work for charitable causes, building programs for public uses (mostly churches and hospitals), and education. Many criticisms of her stem from people judging her somewhat conservative/family value ideals based on current attitudes, which is totally unfair. History, especially historical figures, are more fairly evaluated in terms of the times in which they lived. Dona was adored by the German people and enjoyed great popularity from most segments of society; even among foreign nations. When she died, it was by popular demand that the government allowed her funeral and burial to be in Germany and the events of her funeral were heavily viewed/attended by her former subjects who overwhelmingly expressed great sadness at her passing.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Adagietto on July 25, 2008, 07:43:45 AM
I quite agree, I have never been able to work out why people tend to be so sniffy about her.

I even like her hats!
(http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/33664/2042503820100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on July 25, 2008, 08:35:47 AM
I think she was much more beloved than her mother-in-law the Empress Frederick. Maybe she was only more popular because she didn't involve in politics and kept a low profile. Of course we don't have to compare these two very different women. Or maybe she was more popular because she was German: I read a friend of the family wrote: "These descendant from an old German family looks German and is German in her whole being." Perhaps Wilhelm was attracted by this.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 25, 2008, 09:53:39 AM
Well...Dona was a bad sister, bad daughter-in-law and sister-in-law. It is interesting that her family had nothing good to say about her once she married Wilhelm. Queen Victoria was outraged that Dona (that insignificant princess) saw fit to write to HER to complain about her daughter Beatrice's marriage to Liko.  :D
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 25, 2008, 10:12:29 AM
yes, as no one disagrees, Dona did not perform well as a daughter in law, but it is not wholly clear if she was compelled to be so unattentive to Vicky by pressure from Willie or otherwise.

The bad sister part...who knows for sure. there was alot of disfunction among the sibs arising out of many different situations. And relative to QV...QV has spicy words for tons of relations. Dona was by no means singled out for a few harsh words from Grandmamma. On the other hand, QV praised Dona on occasion for her mothering regimens.

But the real point to the earlier question is that Dona was extremely popular and adored by the nation, the extended nation, and within her immediate family. It would have been an interesting to witness what the tenor of politics in the 1890s would have been had she and Vicky been very close.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on August 31, 2008, 05:03:20 PM
Dona annoys me for some reason. she was narrow minded and quite nasty and in my opinion very stupid.
they way she treaded Vicky and Sophie hurts even me! that was even 100 years before i was born and that im not even a family member!

She was kind of attractive, but goes more turns plain, but not ugly. Not at all elegant but Regal. 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/Germany/Hohenzollern/Prussia/EMPRESSVA.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Adagietto on September 03, 2008, 09:04:50 AM
I think she was one those people who look better as they get older; she looked the part in her latter years.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Svetabel on September 03, 2008, 01:26:23 PM
I think she was one those people who look better as they get older; she looked the part in her latter years.

Here I agree with you. All those fashions and hair-dos of the 1880s-1890s didn't suit her well. IMHO the coiffure in the picture above (posted by Mandy) made Dona looks awful and ugly, definitely not for her features.She looks best as a matron.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 03, 2008, 01:33:20 PM
Dona did not attend to Vicky at all well. Few can argue that, but we do not have clarity as to why Dona was unkind in many ways to Vicky.

Her behavior is actually surprising given that, in fact, she was very compassionate in her charitable work, sponsorship of building programs, etc. She was not stupid; she was reasonably proficient musician and performed her duties as empress extremely well. She was much beloved by her children and subjects. A very popular woman, indeed.

As to her appearance, I think she was a stunningly good looking empress. She, on occasion, made some bizarre hat selections, but overall, put forth a very regal and attractive image.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/2960288040094285158NxRnNW_ph.jpg)

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on September 03, 2008, 02:54:55 PM
Does anyone know if Dona  was photographed in court dress ??
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 03, 2008, 05:30:41 PM
I think quite a few times. I got a few of her in mouning...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on September 04, 2008, 09:28:28 AM
Were they already posted, Eric ? Or could you post them ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 04, 2008, 11:49:25 AM
No I don't they were posted. Love to but cannot handle a scanner...But you will see it in my next royalty photo book. Did you have my other book ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on September 04, 2008, 12:54:37 PM
I'm sorry Eric, I didn't know you're a writer  :( But I don't have that book... What is that book called ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 04, 2008, 04:03:57 PM
I did two books "Royalty in Photographs" and "Royal Images". I especially like royal jewels and wrote about Baby Bee's and Princess Nicholas's collection before the jewelry lady's website uploaded the information. I think Dona appeared in all the Hohanzollern pieces featured in Lord Twining's book on European Royal Jewels. I like her wearing the Orange pearls, the the diamond and pearl stomacher. I wonder if the family still has those pieces ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on September 16, 2008, 03:26:05 PM
New added photos of Dona from the collection of Huis Doorn:

Dona with the Kaiser in 1913:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-2943

Quite an interesting sketch of the Kaiserin made by an unknown artist:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-1320

Dona in colour:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-2848

Dressed in gala in 1907:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-3083

In her wheelchair on the balcony of the house, short before she died:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-3083

http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-2944
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-2879
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-1328


Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Laura_ on September 16, 2008, 03:50:58 PM
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5444/68ea2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yseult on September 16, 2008, 03:57:30 PM
Great, Laurra!! It´s a lovely picture of Dona ;)

A cabinet:

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/DONA%20KAISERIN/Donacabinet-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 09, 2008, 11:35:20 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Photo/0381_3_lg1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 12, 2008, 04:33:53 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/3aec_11.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on October 12, 2008, 05:09:39 PM
i always thought those chocolate cards were weird...i mean...its kinda like the old school version of a wonderball its like instead of "oo oo i got a sticker!" it was "oh look i got a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm!" not sure if that was the reason, but it always came off that way to me lol

but anyways thats a lovely photograph of Dona
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Adagietto on November 13, 2008, 08:43:43 AM
Here's a curiosity that I acquired recently, an illustrated sheet that was given away with  Das Töchter-Album, a magazine for young girls; it is folded down the middle, and shows the Kaiserin and her children on the one side, and a message from her to the magazine's readers on the other (to mark its fortieth anniversary in 1894). Unfortunately I can hardly read a word of her handwriting, can anyone make it out?

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Journal/4-1.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Journal/3-1.jpg)

I imagine that that this was inserted loose because the Kaiserin's message arrived too late for it to be printed in the magazine. The quality of its illustrations was generally very high, as can be seen from the edition scanned here:
http://sophie.byu.edu/literature/index.php?p=title.php&titleid=379
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on November 13, 2008, 12:25:39 PM
" Das größte Reich der Welt ist dein, kannst du dein eigener König sein. Leih dich den Menschen, gieb dich nur Gott.
  Auguste Victoria Kaiserin und Königin d. 28. März 1893"
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Adagietto on November 13, 2008, 12:55:54 PM
Excellent, thank you!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Adagietto on November 14, 2008, 08:50:41 AM
About what one would expect I think if one keeps in mind the audience that it was aimed at; more impressive than it looks in the scans, with plenty of gold.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 29, 2008, 07:28:03 PM
She's no beauty like Alix and Ella of Russia, Missy, Sissi and other royal beauties, but she was one good-looking Empress! And know how to do the job right.  However she wasn't very charming, I found her kinda dull, but her role as Empress, she did a good job at it.

The only thing I dislike about her is her and and Willy's meaness over Sophie's change of Religion and her snobbish attitude turns her mother-in-law Vicky.

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 30, 2008, 10:49:33 AM
Yes she was such a busybody ! The beauty was "Calma" Caroline Mathilde who married into the Glucksborg family.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 13, 2009, 03:49:13 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/Familypicturemuygrande1.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/WilhelmDonaandchildrencabinet1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 13, 2009, 10:30:43 AM
Vicoria Louise, the Kaier and Dona:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/VLwithparentsmuygrande1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 13, 2009, 11:04:50 AM
With *sighs* Adalbert and his wife

(http://i43.tinypic.com/v4wetj.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 13, 2009, 12:05:23 PM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/Donaingaladress1.jpg)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/Donaseatedwithjewels1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 13, 2009, 02:40:34 PM
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2aabrlz.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 13, 2009, 02:44:23 PM
Did this portrait survived the war ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on January 13, 2009, 04:08:43 PM
It was done from composite photos and published as a postcard for the Kaiser's Jubilee. I don't think that it was an actual portrait.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 15, 2009, 07:13:51 PM
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9188/m8846ee6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 16, 2009, 02:21:58 AM
Dona, Cecilie and children:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/2146665490_08fa62d921_o1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 16, 2009, 09:15:01 AM
Dona with Cecilie and grandsons

(http://i44.tinypic.com/10zrds2.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 16, 2009, 12:08:23 PM
Very interesting to see how the little German princes had faux hawk haircuts 100 years ahead of the fashion!!!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 16, 2009, 12:41:00 PM
Dona and Victoria Louise:

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/victorialuiseandparents1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 16, 2009, 01:08:43 PM
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2vs3dp3.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 17, 2009, 07:37:08 AM
Willie and Dona
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/WillieandDona18801.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 17, 2009, 12:53:36 PM
In that particular profile, Willie looks more like his father than usual. WII as a nice looking fellow.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 05, 2009, 05:14:00 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/Donawithhat1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 05, 2009, 08:53:13 AM
She looked uncomfortable in her clothes.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 05, 2009, 09:00:10 AM
I don't think Dona looked uncomfortable at all. In fact, she always seems to display an aura of calm and a peacefully relaxed look.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 05, 2009, 09:10:24 AM
It is a matter of opinion here. Dona's life was far from peaceful living with William, who critized her clothes and even went so far to ask his cousin Louise of Belgium to show Dona how to dress...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 06, 2009, 02:22:27 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/2482948712_e51ea60057_o1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on February 06, 2009, 06:55:18 AM
An observer writing in 1915 (under the pseudonym Count Axel von Schwering) in 'The Berlin court under William II', noted that "One of the amiable weaknesses of the Empress Augusta Victoria is her love of dress, and she spends an enormous time in consultation with her legion of dressmakers."  However, Daisy of Pless wrote in 1908, of a private visit where it was "Just herself [the Empress] and one lady-in-waiting and I and the children" that she was wearing "a chiffon dress with a long train and a large ugly hat covered with feathers.  The same sort of dress she wears for lunch on the Hohenzollern at Kiel - instead of a smart, plain yachting frock.  I wore an embroidered muslin dress and hat...."  She obviously gave a lot of thought to her outfits (Daisy also says her conversation was almost solely on clothes and children) but except for the grand occasions, didn't seem to have much taste or style.  But I think the calm came not from the clothes so much as a sense of her own personal confidence in her own choices.  No one writing at the time seems to have been impressed by her taste in dress, but generally they were impressed by her regal bearing and pleasant, calm public persona. 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 06, 2009, 09:59:32 AM
It seems that at least in public, Dona was well recieved. The petty nitpicking monster depicted by Vicky and her daughters (plus her own sister) seem to be from another universe.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 06, 2009, 10:08:57 AM
Thanks CountessKate, that info is good and tracks with other background biographical data about Dona, her taste in clothes, and the comfort she had in her own self image.

The era of the early 1900s was indeed a rapid-change period for women's fashion and a time when fashion "rules" were being completely overhauled. Dona held on to the excessive ornamentation, not unlike the parallel styles in architecture of the period which led to modernism, while some of her peers became more relaxed and sporty.

While Dona may have 'over dressed' on many occasions, I think she looked every bit a empress with clothes, hats, and tiaras appropriate for her rank.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 10, 2009, 12:18:15 PM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/Donakaiserine1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 10, 2009, 12:59:40 PM
This one of Dona is new for me. She looks so gorgeous and peaceful!

(http://i40.tinypic.com/16hksoh.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 02, 2009, 12:26:23 PM
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/histoire/victorialuoisejoaquin191.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 07, 2009, 08:18:04 AM
What a man!! *0*!!

Wilhelm, dona and their kids

(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8250/wilhelm2prussia185947asde7.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 14, 2009, 12:55:17 PM
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/histoire/102154501.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 14, 2009, 12:57:31 PM
Excuse me, I'm wrong photo,


(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/histoire/augusta-victoria1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 14, 2009, 01:00:20 PM
Looking regal and wonderful as always

(http://i41.tinypic.com/14nl2te.jpg)

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Rani on May 29, 2009, 02:26:43 PM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Foto1011.jpg)

with her first son
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on May 29, 2009, 02:31:24 PM
aww..thats cute.  :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 29, 2009, 02:49:05 PM
that photo angle really does Dona justice! She almost has a Vivien Leigh aura in that pic! (hope I haven't commited heresy GDella! :) )
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 29, 2009, 06:07:38 PM
That s not her first son, thats is Prinz Oskar  (That picture was on sale on ebay a week ago or so)

Here another of the same session


(http://i40.tinypic.com/2d18bqp.jpg)




 





Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Terence on May 30, 2009, 01:47:52 AM
http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Foto1011.jpg (http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Foto1011.jpg)
with her first son

That just looks so totally natural, mother & child w/ natural expression.  Someone back then got caught smiling!

T
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on June 02, 2009, 03:25:40 AM
I'm not a great fan, but I always think she looked her best with babies and small children - relaxed and smiling.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on June 05, 2009, 10:28:48 AM
Dona, Willie and children:
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/histoire/102235311.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 05, 2009, 11:58:49 AM
Dona and Wilhelm

(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh282/queenberenice/WilhelmIIandwife.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 06, 2009, 10:55:42 PM
I DO like Wilhelm II and Dona, but I can't help to think, every time I watch Wilhelm portraits or photos, to think he looks a little bit like the bad guy of the comic serial fom the 60's and early 70's "Get Smart" (with Don Adams) : Siegfried, one of the principal leaders of KAOS.  (It's a joke. Please, don't take it seriously. I repeat I LIKE Wilhelm and family...)

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Alexandre64 on June 07, 2009, 02:10:37 AM
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/histoire/100833361.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 07, 2009, 09:39:01 AM
A wonderful portrait of dona

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2vmvywz.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on June 08, 2009, 02:55:03 PM
Beautiful portrait, but her face looks swell. The one posted above that one, is my favorite one of Dona.

After reading more info on Dona, she was a wonderful mother, wife and Empress. But still over the issue with Sophie's changing religion still holds me back from liking Dona. 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Luc on July 20, 2009, 04:43:30 AM
Some photos with Auguste Viktoria in possession of Huis Doorn:

as a child:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0268

with her sister Karoline Mathilde in 1873:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0274

http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0265
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0267
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0255

in the garden of Villa Liegnitz with her two younger children:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-1419

the imperial family with their guests at the Achilleion:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-01048b

at the Achilleion:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-2717

the Empress with her daughter and other people ice-skating:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-A093-040




Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on July 20, 2009, 10:33:55 AM
I love the calm way she wears huge hats quite inappropriately with evening wear.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: felix on April 18, 2010, 08:42:04 AM


  Just a funny little thing.  I just came back from Jerusalem & there's a hospital there built by the Kaiser & named for his wife "Augusta Victoria". I was told it was built in 1908,and still has her name.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 18, 2010, 02:50:04 PM
Yes. Dona was only a family nickname and she was formal address was HIH Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria of Germany.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on April 18, 2010, 02:53:10 PM
she was formal address was HIH Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria of Germany.
No, she was Her Majesty, the German Empress. There was no "Empress of Germany".
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 18, 2010, 02:55:16 PM
Yes. You are right. Within QV's family though she was forever "Dona" that insignificant princess.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 18, 2010, 06:42:08 PM
Yes. You are right. Within QV's family though she was forever "Dona" that insignificant princess.

Eric, Eric, Eric. Your bias is sometimes all too obvious. Dona did not have the gutter-level reputation you constantly attempt to establish as fact. QV made unkind comments about many--both inside and outsde her family--as did several other of the aristocracy. That you seem to enjoy pointing out the cruel comments made about Dona nearly everytime you have an opportunity is both redundant and tiresome...and not as true as you wish to think.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 18, 2010, 06:47:20 PM


  Just a funny little thing.  I just came back from Jerusalem & there's a hospital there built by the Kaiser & named for his wife "Augusta Victoria". I was told it was built in 1908,and still has her name.

This is very much true. The Hohenzollerns were much involved in the middle east and this hospital (originally a Churuch and community center) is a good example of their philanthropic work beyond Germany.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on April 18, 2010, 06:49:16 PM
Within QV's family though she was forever "Dona" that insignificant princess.
Eric, Eric, Eric. Your bias is sometimes all too obvious. Dona did not have the gutter-level reputation you constantly attempt to establish as fact.

Indeed. And as kmerov pointed out in the Augustenborg thread, Vicky and Fritz were good friends with her parents and thus wanted the match. She was no pariah.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on April 18, 2010, 07:10:19 PM


  Just a funny little thing.  I just came back from Jerusalem & there's a hospital there built by the Kaiser & named for his wife "Augusta Victoria". I was told it was built in 1908,and still has her name.

This is very much true. The Hohenzollerns were much involved in the middle east and this hospital (originally a Churuch and community center) is a good example of their philanthropic work beyond Germany.

Wilhelm and Dona went to Jerusalem in 1898. Amongst other things he donated a large sum of money which was used by Bikur Holim Hospital to purchase the grounds where the current medical centre stands on Rechov Strauss. During the royal visit to Jerusalem, Wilhelm also laid the cornerstone for the later construction of Augusta Victoria, a complex on Mt. Scopus that would later become a church, hospice and hospital. Until the late 1920s the Augusta Victoria also served as the residence of the British High Commissioner for Palestine.

   The cornerstone laying ceremony was held in March 1907. The large complex included a large Hospice building and a church with its 60M high bell tower. It  was designed by the German architect Robert Leibnitz who was inspired by German palaces, and designed other grand palaces and hotels in Berlin and Germany. The complex was constructed in the years 1907-1910. The German Protestant church, which is part of the complex, was named as the "Evangelical Lutheran Church of the Ascension". The Royal couple returned to inaugurate the completed building and church in 1910. It was the first modern building in Jerusalem with electricity, powered by its own generator. The building initially served as a pilgrims hospice until 1914.

"During World War I Augusta Victoria was  used by the Turkish army as headquarters during WWI (1914-1917).  It is here that the Ottomans, led by Jamal Pasha, signed in December 1917 the surrender papers of Palestine to the victorious British forces, led by General Allenby.   During the years 1917-1927 the hospice building served as a temporary HQ for the British forces , who occupied the Holy Land. The British occupation managed the country and Jordan, initially as an administration called O.E.T.A. (Occupied Enemy Territory Administration, 1917-1920) and later as the British Mandate (managed by a high commissioner, 1920-1927). Two commissioners served here - Herbert Samuel (1920-1925) and Lord Plummer (1925-1928). The British administration relocated in 1927 to the new commissioner's palace ("Armon Hanaziv") on the south side of the city.  The British rebuilt the ruined country, introduced the city to the 20th Century,  and left an important building code for which Jerusalem is highly praised: all its buildings  city are required by a city ordinance to have a stone exterior - the Jerusalem stone - dressing the Holy city in a unique and uniform architecture style."

 "The Augusta Victoria was damaged by an 6.3 magnitude  earthquake in July 1927  and later repaired. It was then converted to a hospital during World War II for the British forces. Throughout 1948-1967 it became under UN control in the buffer zone of Mount Scopus. In the 6-day war (June 1967) the second floor was destroyed by shelling during the bloody battles between the Israeli paratroopers 55th Brigade and the Jordanian Legion soldiers.  It was incorporated into the unified city, and today it is used as a hospital servicing the Arab population."

   In the entrance to the church is a display of historic items from the history of Augusta Victoria. Two bibles are on display, including one which was signed by Augusta in April 1910 in their second visit to Jerusalem, when they inaugurated the Church.





Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 18, 2010, 11:15:40 PM
It's not a good idea to lose a war, much less two. The good things that the Holy Roman Empire and the second Reich acheved have largely been lost in common historical awareness. GDElla has presented an excellent summary of one of the memorable aspects of the Wilhemine era. I will say that the idea of the British "introducing the city (Jerusalem) to the 20th century" is a point to which many, including the reputable Laurence of Arabia, would strongly object.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 19, 2010, 10:30:09 AM
Thanks for the additional information. I wonder what Dona personally felt about that ? I don't think her letters or diaries were ever published.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: kmerov on April 19, 2010, 06:03:15 PM
Yes. You are right. Within QV's family though she was forever "Dona" that insignificant princess.

I think her "insignificant Princess" status became more and more outspoken the more her relationship with Vicky turned bad. Neither QV nor Vicky I think can be accused of being snobbish about ebenbürtigkeit or desire for "grand matches."
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: kmerov on April 19, 2010, 06:10:41 PM
And a illustration of Dona and Wilhelm, published in 1888.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/RF%20of%20Preussia/WilhelmIIAugustaVictoria.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on April 20, 2010, 07:33:37 AM
Yes. You are right. Within QV's family though she was forever "Dona" that insignificant princess.

I think her "insignificant Princess" status became more and more outspoken the more her relationship with Vicky turned bad. Neither QV nor Vicky I think can be accused of being snobbish about ebenbürtigkeit or desire for "grand matches."

I would endorse that.  Both Queen Victoria and her daughter were initially very well-disposed to Dona as the grandaughter of Queen Victoria's beloved half-sister Feodora and John Rohl's book on William II demonstrates very clearly that they supported William's case to marry her when others in the Prussian royal family didn't.  The 'insignificant princess' is aimed at Dona's subsequent hostility to Vicky which I think came as a shock to both women - here was the princess from a far from grand, if royal, family whom they had materially helped to achieve her elevated position, having the cheek to show in the clearest terms that she didn't see any reason to demonstrate gratitude to her former sponsors.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 20, 2010, 11:36:28 AM
Yes. When Dona went so far to write a letter to QV about Beatrice's match, QV rehased the "insifnificant princess" and who was she to tell the Queen of England what to do ? I would imagine Grandmama wrote a "not so nice nor polite" reply to Dona. That would be one of the reason why Dona disliked her "English cousins" so much.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yseult on April 24, 2010, 02:57:51 AM
Dona young:

(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh282/queenberenice/Donayoung.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 24, 2010, 11:53:57 AM
indeed! gorgeous!!

I d like to find this one in bigger. Defo , is one of the most beautifulk pictures of young Dona i ve ever seen

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1z6w4kh.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Rani on June 13, 2010, 01:00:26 PM
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/urla_0070.jpg)

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 18, 2010, 01:26:16 PM
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/RoyalLadies/medal.jpg)
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/RoyalLadies/medal2.jpg)
And an statue
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/RoyalLadies/statueEmpress.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 18, 2010, 09:43:24 PM
Lovely statue. Where is this?

dona aged quite gracefully, and in imho, she was a perfect image of an empress. unlike her peers (Alix, Alexandra/Mary, Thrya, etc) she did not seem to show, until after WWI, an attitude of pent up anger, dissatisfaction wtih life, or on the otehr extreme, arrogance.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 19, 2010, 07:12:02 AM
What an elegant lady she was

In all her splendour

(http://i26.tinypic.com/2i78wgm.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: THERRY on July 20, 2010, 02:15:42 AM
I agree with You !!!  And what a thin waistline despite seven children  :o
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: kmerov on July 20, 2010, 02:23:43 PM
A wonderful statue!
No matter what else you think about her pesonality, she did have a real regal look to her, she really looked like "Die Kaiserin," a German Little-mother.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 23, 2010, 06:21:42 PM
The statue of the Empress (according with the site) is in Berlin at the "Rose Garden"
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 26, 2010, 08:05:23 PM
Time to relook at this lovely portrait. The year was 1908. The tiara by Willhelm II. The painting by Lazlo.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/375px-Philip_Alexius_de_Laszlo_-_Auguste_Viktoria_Deutsche_Kaiserin_1908.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 26, 2010, 11:50:39 PM
I think this portrait is in Holland. Is this a reproduction ? The colours looks much lighter than the one I saw...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 27, 2010, 08:50:04 AM
This portrait looks as it always has to me. The grays and blacks couldn't get much darker and still show the detail and textures.

The year was 1908. Compare her image (which based on all other timeline photos and portraits is quite accurate) here in 1908 and below from the family momento for her and Willy's 25th anniversary. I think her very stately and elegant look in the early 20th century had no cause to be tweaked and replaced by a younger pic.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/WilhelmIIfamily-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 27, 2010, 11:55:42 AM
Different to the one I saw in Doorn.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on July 27, 2010, 01:06:50 PM
If you ever want your own copy, HK, the Illustrated London News reproduced it (full page) on May 20, 1911. (I think the couple was visiting England) It makes a nice framing copy.  :)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on July 27, 2010, 01:34:55 PM
HK and Eric, you're both partly right. This particular one is located at Doorn but Kaulbach later did a reproduction (head only) at Kasteel Amerongen.  Here's some more info on the painting (one located at Huis Doorn)

The Empress Auguste Victoria 1908
Standing three-quarter length to the left and looking to the right, wearing court dress with the order of the Black Eagle, a cloverleaf tiara with an organza veil behind and holding an open fan in both hands
Oil on canvas, 200 x 130 cm (78 ¾ x 51 in.)
Inscribed lower left: P.A. László. 1908. / NEUES PALAIS
Inscribed upper left: AUGUSTE VICTORIA/ KAISERIN UND KÖNIGIN

Sitters’ Book I, f. 81: Auguste Victoria I.R. 11 Dec. 1908

Huis Doorn, Doorn, The Netherlands


"De László had already painted a head and shoulders portrait of the Empress Auguste Victoria in Potsdam in 1899 at which time he also painted a portrait of her only daughter, Viktoria Luise. According to Rutter, in October 1908, with the intervention of Count Albert Mensdorff, the Austro-Hungarian Ambassador in London, and Countess Therese Brockdorff, the Comptroller of the Empress’s Household, de László was commissioned to paint a formal portrait of the German Empress for the wardroom of the recently commissioned battleship Schleswig-Holstein (13,993 tons), to be paid for by subscription by the province of Schleswig-Holstein. Although it is not certain if the present portrait is the one from the Schleswig-Holstein, Rutter describes it as a “big picture”and there is no evidence of de László having painted another large portrait of the Empress. The obsolete Schleswig-Holstein was converted into a tender in 1917, having taken part in the Battle of Jutland in 1916, and an accommodation ship in 1918. It is possible that the portrait was donated to the Empress after these conversions.
 

Writing to his wife on 13 November 1908, de László said he had made three preliminary sketches [untraced] to decide on the colour and composition of the portrait. “I so very much hope that it will be a success,” he wrote, “and will be very very good, for there are many inimical eyes watching my pictures.” While de László was in Potsdam he also painted Princess Viktoria Luise again and made portraits of the Crown Prince Wilhelm (untraced) and the Crown Princess Cecilie. Once these were finished, the Emperor himself consented to sit to de László, fulfilling a long-held ambition for the artist.

....This rather modest house [Doorn] was then filled to bursting-point with treasures, including the present portrait, from the Imperial residences delivered in fifty-nine railway wagons; twenty-eight containing furniture, and of the others, one bearing a car and another a boat....This portrait usually hangs in the dining room at Doorn, the largest room in the house, the other side of the door from a portrait of the Emperor by his favoured portraitist in exile, the Berliner Alfred Schwarz (1867-1951). She seems to turn her back on the portrait on the opposite end wall of the Emperor’s second wife, Hermine, whom he married barely a year and a half after the death of Auguste Victoria.

There is a copy of the present portrait by Anton Kaulbach (1864-1930), head only, at Kasteel Amerongen and an enlarged full-length copy was sold in Munich in 2002.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 27, 2010, 04:18:09 PM
Vielen Dank!

Thanks for the detailed info! The full page in the London News implies a level of populariity in England that probably sustained a couple more years through VL's wedding.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 27, 2010, 07:57:18 PM
Yes. Dona was less well known in Britain, and they adored her for being a good wife and mother.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 26, 2010, 01:09:23 PM
Die Kaiserin...
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/VictorianLadies/deutschekaiserin.jpg)
A wonderful portrait of her
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/VictorianLadies/deutschekaiserin2.jpg)
Detail
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/VictorianLadies/deutschekaiserin1.jpg)
Her jewels are fascinating! XD
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 26, 2010, 01:35:49 PM
A picture of Dona`s tiara

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6617/imagen30021.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 26, 2010, 01:52:43 PM
Wonderful photo!!
Victoria Augusta and other royals
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/VictorianLadies/germanroyals.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 26, 2010, 02:06:15 PM
Talking about that wonderful tiara... any idea of who owns it? I'd also would like to see it in color, in the paintings it looked to be really beautiful
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 26, 2010, 02:11:26 PM
I think it was passed down to her children.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 26, 2010, 02:22:43 PM
here s a discussion about this tiara

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=10862.75
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 27, 2010, 12:52:25 PM
Thanks for the link ;-)
Found this  labeled as her...
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/RoyalFamilies/KaiserinAugusta1886.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 27, 2010, 12:56:39 PM
That one is from Anton von werner. From the same author and same place, Dona behind Wilhelm in mourning


(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1416/antonvonwernerdieerffnu.jpg) (http://img220.imageshack.us/i/antonvonwernerdieerffnu.jpg/)

XL

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1416/antonvonwernerdieerffnu.jpg
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on October 27, 2010, 01:06:11 PM
Great close-up, Katenka Fyodorovna!

I am curious as to why the two pages behind the women are dressed in red and white and not the usual Prussian livery colours of black and white. Considering that the event is an opening of the Imperial Diet in a hall of the City Palace in Berlin, maybe there are wearing Hohenzollern livery colurs, different from the Prussian ones? (The arms of the Margraves and Electors of Brandenburg feature a red eagle on white, but the Hohenzollern arms are black and white. I presume the red cloaks the men are wearing are, illogically, those of the Order of the Black Eagle, the highest-ranking Prussian order, and not of the Order of the Red Eagle, the second highest ranking one.)

See this thread (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6138.msg466426#msg466426) for more about livery colurs.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 27, 2010, 03:27:41 PM
Where is Vicky ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 27, 2010, 04:45:45 PM
Where is Vicky ?

I think Vicky is right next to Dona. Bimarck in the foreground left.

Great close-up, Katenka Fyodorovna!

I am curious as to why the two pages behind the women are dressed in red and white and not the usual Prussian livery colours of black and white. Considering that the event is an opening of the Imperial Diet in a hall of the City Palace in Berlin, maybe there are wearing Hohenzollern livery colurs, different from the Prussian ones? (The arms of the Margraves and Electors of Brandenburg feature a red eagle on white, but the Hohenzollern arms are black and white. I presume the red cloaks the men are wearing are, illogically, those of the Order of the Black Eagle, the highest-ranking Prussian order, and not of the Order of the Red Eagle, the second highest ranking one.)

See this thread (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6138.msg466426#msg466426) for more about livery colurs.

Sometimes painters took liberties with colorations.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 28, 2010, 12:57:04 PM
I thought beside Dona was Mossy, Fossie & Moretta...
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: violetta on November 21, 2010, 04:47:44 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/383px-Auguste_victoria_axb01.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 23, 2010, 04:19:27 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/383px-Auguste_victoria_axb01.jpg)

This is a photo of AV not long before her untimely death. By this point, the once grand and regal looking empress had suffered through a devasting war, loss of power and possessions, loss of a son, and loss of a nation. She looked haggard and expectedly so.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 25, 2010, 04:56:21 AM
The young couple with the little Kronprinz

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5493/00451837.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/00451837.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 26, 2010, 01:37:49 PM
Augusta Viktoria and some of her children

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/497/00754738.jpg) (http://img201.imageshack.us/i/00754738.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 30, 2010, 01:49:58 PM



a large version of this famous image of her

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6112/yaq59.jpg) (http://img84.imageshack.us/i/yaq59.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on January 10, 2011, 10:32:29 AM
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/cfarnon/German%20and%20Austrian%20courts/AugustaVictoria4.jpg)

I've always liked this portrait of Dona but don't know the painter nor have I seen it in colour.  Can anyone help with either?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on January 10, 2011, 04:31:18 PM
I think it might be Lenbach. I know I've seen it somewhere before.   
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 11, 2011, 09:51:52 AM
I think so too. It is very much Lenbach's style. Don't know if it survived the war ?
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 26, 2011, 01:24:03 PM
Empress of Germany
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/Royalty/augustadealemania.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 01, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
handtinted illustration of Augusta V and kronprinz Wilhelm

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6283/foto0041dg.jpg) (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/foto0041dg.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 02, 2011, 01:52:21 PM
Hnadtinted illustration? I thought that it was a handtinted photo. It looks quite realistic!
The Empress giving flowers to a wounded soldier
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Empresses/aug.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 02, 2011, 03:07:53 PM
agree, Dona's appearance is quite accurate and hence feels like a photograph that has been colored. The title reads:

The people certainly thank you.

Which is obviously a line being delivered by Dona to the soldier.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 11, 2011, 12:13:27 PM
Thanks for the translation!! Now a medal of the Empress (I love her profile on it!)
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/RoyalLadies/augustavictoriaperfil.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 11, 2011, 04:29:32 PM
Her profile is quite nice. Statuesque and regal. I always liked the way she had her hair done when she wore a tiara; nicely integrated. Most people through her under the bus because of her not so nice encounters with her mother in law, but fair is fair and I think Dona looked wonderful as Kaiserin, especially in her later years, 1900-1914. She and Victoria Luise were a great looking mother-daughter combination and each benefitted by borrowing a bit of youthful (from VL) and a bit of mature (from Dona) style that really worked well.

the coin says:

side one: Augusta Victoria, Empress and Queen

side two: For 25 years of faithful service for the Red Cross.

the coin must have been presented in by the Elberfeld chapter in 1915 in the midst of WWI. Elberfeld is a town near Wupperthal in the Ruhr Valley. Very industrial.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 21, 2011, 12:57:31 PM
Thank you very very much for the info HerrKaiser  :) Agree totally with you about the Empress' appereance, she looks amazing with that tiara!!  :o
The Empress as grandma
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/VictorianGowns/granny.jpg)
The Empress alone
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/VictorianGowns/Kirchenjuste.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 22, 2011, 12:41:11 PM
It reminds me the first of the Empress giving flowers to a soldier
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/givingflowers.jpg)
The Empress, again with flowers
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/oldDonawithFlowers.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 22, 2011, 01:10:38 PM
The Empress, again with flowers
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/oldDonawithFlowers.jpg (http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/oldDonawithFlowers.jpg)

Here, Dona is featured much thinner than images of her in former times. By this time--probably around 1917--clothing styles had changed dramatically and the sleeker, less fambouyant outfit does her quite well. She looks very elegant.


Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 23, 2011, 12:13:30 PM
Silver Wedding
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Royals/silverwedding.jpg)
The Kaiserfamilie
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Royals/kaiserfamilie1.jpg)
The Empress, the Emperor and the Crown Prince
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Royals/donaYwilly.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 23, 2011, 04:03:57 PM
The last picture posted says "meeting in the west" which based on the uniformed Kaiser and Crown Prince, along with the outfit Dona is wearing, the year is 1916-1918 and takes places along the Rhine valley or environs. Dona looks smaller and more frail; the war years were not good for her at all. In spite of this, I think her appearance is extremely stately and elegant. The style change did her justice.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 24, 2011, 11:42:37 AM
Thanks for the info about it!
The Kaiserpaar (according to the site at 1906)
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Queens/1906Dona.jpg)
This is handtinted
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Queens/handtinted.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Rani on March 17, 2011, 04:42:15 PM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Auguste_Viktoria_v_Preussen_1252598_9x13.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: THERRY on March 18, 2011, 03:15:27 AM
A precious photo  ::)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 18, 2011, 07:17:36 AM
Young Pss

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6546/foto0004lb.jpg) (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/foto0004lb.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 18, 2011, 08:05:37 AM
Beautiful! Interesting that both Dona & Queen Mary started out as "HSH Princess Victoria"!!
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on March 28, 2011, 02:52:13 PM
The Empress delivering flowers to the grave of...??
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/VictorianLadies/grave.jpg)
Handtinted photo
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/VictorianLadies/color.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 28, 2011, 05:46:08 PM
The byline of the card would translate effectively to "Faithfully remembering". The Empress dedicated much of her time to remembering the troops and by virtue of her son being in uniform in the background, I suspect this is the grave of a fallen soldier.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on May 02, 2011, 01:40:02 PM
The Empress with the Emperor and Princess Viktoria Louise
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Queens/209098.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Rani on May 03, 2011, 03:25:58 PM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/02-6.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/01-6-1.jpg)


(Doesn´t she reminds you of Helen Mirren?)

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on October 18, 2011, 01:14:06 AM
Another proud looking Mother!

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9908/empressv.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/empressv.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Kalafrana on October 18, 2011, 03:39:24 AM
Which two of her boys are these? I'd hazard a guess that the elder is Eitel Friedrich.

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: THERRY on October 18, 2011, 06:18:10 AM
I think August Wilhelm (right)  and Oskar (left)  :-[
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eddie_uk on October 18, 2011, 09:39:47 AM
My pleasure Carolath!!!! Glad you like.
 It appears to be from the same sitting as the one you posted a while back! Dated Nov. 1899 I think! :)
Thank you for identifying the sons! I did wonder.
Also, I was wondering, is it correct to call Augusta "Empress Wilhelm" like Victoria is named Empress Frederick??
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: grandduchessella on October 18, 2011, 11:23:55 AM
It seems to be a personal preference--Empress Augusta (consort of Wilhelm I) was never called Empress Wilhelm. I think it had to do with Vicky's desire to ever-celebrate and memoralize Fritz's memory.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on February 28, 2012, 01:39:23 PM
When young
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Old%20Days/dona1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 29, 2012, 09:15:14 AM
Dona must have been quite a character. Other than her own family (her children really), most people in her & her husband's family did not seem to warm towards her.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on July 09, 2013, 06:22:05 AM

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/cfarnon/German%20and%20Austrian%20courts/StudyforportraitofAugustaViktoria1905VittorioCorcos_zps88ffe9b4.jpg) (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/cfarnon/media/German%20and%20Austrian%20courts/StudyforportraitofAugustaViktoria1905VittorioCorcos_zps88ffe9b4.jpg.html)

I rather like this portrait of Dona - a study by Vittorio Corcos,in 1905.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 09, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
Thanks for the image, CK. It is a beautiful portrait of Dona, who grew quite beautiful and lovely as she aged.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 16, 2013, 12:44:25 AM
She looks very natural in this study.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Превед on December 12, 2013, 04:48:13 PM
Well said. Particularly when casual use of calling Dona a "cow" serves to wrongly establish her image and persona amongst people who do not know and appreciate her true regal, sophisticated, and highly attractive being.

Personally I see her neither as a cow nor as full of grandezza, but as the Kirchen-Guste who built hundred churches in the vain effort to save the working classes from Socialism.

BTW that (the bigotted church stuff) is just one of many striking similarities between VA and AF. Both empresses so reclusive, so devoted to their children, their husbands and nursing their husbands' frail (delusional) autocratic egos. No wonder they couldn't stand each other, as they probably saw some of their own bad qualities reflected in each other.

Good points. I agree with some of those similarities between VA and AF.  However, I don't think Dona can be viewed any where near the recluse that AF was; in fact, is there anywhere she is actually characterized as a recluse? I've always seen, read, and heard of her as a very willing participant in social and private doings.

I also don't think the motivation for Dona's building sponsorships was saving the masses from socialism. Rather, she was a devoted Christian and committed to the beautification of the cityscapes which her churches most definitely added a sense of splendor we enjoy today (what's left of them, that is).

I agree, she was far from the kind of recluse AF was. But a recluse in the sense of limiting herself to domestic matters and the circle of the "Hallelujah Aunts". Her retreating role is of course also a reason why she is so little known today, the last empress - even among the Germans, compared to her legendary husband. But there were of course some facts which made her position quite different from AF's.
- The more advanced political structure of the German Empire as compared to the Russian one left less room for personal politics - and thus also for powerful women.
- Her children being largely boys, she was less able to (if she even wished to) isolate her family from society (which she, just like AF considered dangerous and debauched), with them attending cadet school in Plön and going into the army.
- AV was not a foreigner.

Still one can argue that AV is one of the more productive contemporaries to compare AF with, since they both were the first ladies of empires where there still were some degree of personal rule (by their very controversial husbands). Environmentally, AF had more in common with AV than with Alexandra and Mary of the UK.

I think anti-Socialism played a part in AV's church building, as the court and her husband were linked with the Christian-Social (anti-Socialist and somewhat anti-Semitic) movement of Adolf Stoecker, the Dean and Court Pastor of Berlin. It is symbolic that one of the churches built by AV, the Versöhnungskirche / Reconciliation Church in the Bernauer Straße in Berlin, came to lie right next to the Berlin Wall, was blown up by the DDR / GDR as late as 1985 and is now replaced by a very moving clay Chapel of Reconciliation (made from the dirt from the site, containing bits of the broken bricks of the church), right next to the Berlin Wall Memorial.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2013, 06:43:56 PM
She was well known in UK and readers of Queen Victoria's letters & diaries as an "ungrateful insignificant princess who was raised to a position by Vicky's kindness" and "whose attitude I have no words". 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Kalafrana on December 13, 2013, 03:58:53 AM
Eric

Was that Queen Victoria's consistent view of AV, or simply the hyperbole she went in from time to time in her diary? What is the context of these remarks?

Ann
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on December 13, 2013, 05:28:47 AM
Eric

Was that Queen Victoria's consistent view of AV, or simply the hyperbole she went in from time to time in her diary? What is the context of these remarks?

Ann

The context was that AV had supported the line of her husband and grandparents-in-law in relation to the marriage of Princess Beatrice with Prince Henry of Battenburg - that is, that it was essentially a morganatic marriage of those unequal in blood and generally disgraceful.  Since it was precisely this sort of argument which had caused opposition from those same grandparents-in-law initially to hesitate to endorse the match (that it was essentially unequal), QV was therefore spelling out the irony of the situation as well as AV's ingratitude to those such as QV herself, who had supported AV's marriage, and Vicky, who had promoted and supported AV's marriage through thick and thin. 
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Превед on December 13, 2013, 05:28:47 AM
Personally I see her neither as a cow nor as full of grandezza, but as the Kirchen-Guste who built hundred churches in the vain effort to save the working classes from Socialism.

Of course that is Kirchen-Juste in Berlinerisch, as this interesting portrait (http://www.deutschlandradiokultur.de/kirchenjuste-ein-portraet.1124.de.html?dram:article_id=177048) points out, together with the influence from Stoecker. Based on a biography (Angelika Obert,  Auguste Victoria, Wie die Provinzprinzessin zur Kaiserin der Herzen wurde. Wichern, Berlin 2011) it claims that some of AV's emotional problems may have been due to her mother, in deep grief for AV's dead brother, not being quite there for her after her birth (postnatal depression?) and that she herself remedied this through taking on a maternal role quite early (towards her younger sister Calma).
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: CountessKate on December 13, 2013, 06:06:07 AM
Eric

Was that Queen Victoria's consistent view of AV, or simply the hyperbole she went in from time to time in her diary? What is the context of these remarks?

Ann

The context was that AV had supported the line of her husband and grandparents-in-law in relation to the marriage of Princess Beatrice with Prince Henry of Battenburg - that is, that it was essentially a morganatic marriage of those unequal in blood and generally disgraceful.  Since it was precisely this sort of argument which had caused opposition from those same grandparents-in-law initially to hesitate to endorse the match (that it was essentially unequal), QV was therefore spelling out the irony of the situation as well as AV's ingratitude to those such as QV herself, who had supported AV's marriage, and Vicky, who had promoted and supported AV's marriage through thick and thin. 

Sorry, I should clarify that it was AV's own marriage with Wilhelm which was initially considered to be unequal, as one of her grandparents was a mere noblewoman, Countess Louise Sophie Danneskiold-Samsøe.  Hence Queen Victoria's pointing out the obvious with regard to AV's attitude to Princess Beatrice's marriage - that AV had no grounds on which to oppose it, and was being ungrateful to her original supporters.  But it certainly wasn't a consistent view of Queen Victoria's - both she and Vicky had felt AV highly suitable as a bride for William and neither had any problems about her birth per se.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Превед on December 13, 2013, 09:27:37 AM
Sorry, I should clarify that it was AV's own marriage with Wilhelm which was initially considered to be unequal, as one of her grandparents was a mere noblewoman, Countess Louise Sophie Danneskiold-Samsøe.

A great great great grand-daughter of King Christian V of Denmark and sporting seize quartiers+ bursting with the names and arms of the equites originarii of Holstein, while the soi-disante princesse Julia von Hauke was not even born noble! Oh, the horror, to be compared with such a parvenue, it really shakes a heart filled with Standesdünkel. (And don't mention that the first Countess of Samsøe was the daughter of the royal physician, a background rather similar to Hauke's.....)

Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Kalafrana on December 13, 2013, 11:23:42 AM
Countess Kate

Many thanks
Ann
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 13, 2013, 08:18:00 PM
Judging from Dona's own family, it would be hypocritical of her to discriminate against the Battenbergs. People who live in glass houses don't throw stones at others. Which is why QV was so angry and bitchy at Dona's attitude and zero on "insignificant princess" to describe her (she was all for Ella to marry Willy, although Vicky wasn't too keen on that). Dona's later drama with Willy's sisters Sophie & Moretta did not endear her to the "English camp". However she did find a kindred spirit in Ducky for awhile.   
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Превед on December 14, 2013, 04:01:21 PM
(And don't mention that the first Countess of Samsøe was the daughter of the royal physician, a background rather similar to Hauke's.....)

Of course one should generally avoid the topic of royal physicians in her all-highest presence, as AV was descended not only from Dr. Moth, but also Dr. Struensee. (Her great great grandfather.) BTW through him, whose family hailed from the March of Brandenburg  (Struensee < the lake of Strausee by Strausberg, east of Berlin), she had more Prussian blood than the rest of the originally Swabian Hohenzollerns.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 16, 2013, 05:25:33 PM
I do wonder more about her relationship with her other sisters (her problems with Louise was well documented in her memoirs).
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Превед on December 16, 2013, 07:03:54 PM
You can read samples from Feodora's novels (which unfortunately are not digitialized, unlike so much older literature) in her biography (http://books.google.no/books?id=hwMMNS8Bf1sC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=%22durch+den+nebel%22+hugin&source=bl&ots=-kAMFobwmy&sig=0DEwed6hh9A0UevRXLTIw3VSE5g&hl=nn&sa=X&ei=MJmvUu7lMsGoyQOOjYCwCw&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=%22durch%20den%20nebel%22%20hugin&f=false). The extract from the novel Durch den Nebel seems quite interesting, with its themes of rural life in Schleswig and the Danish-German conflict. It takes place by the Fjord of Flensburg - an environment that she must have known well from stays at the family summer residence Gravenstein and with her sister Karoline Mathilde's family at Glücksburg. Anyone who has read her biography or the novels?
Here are other biographic materials. (http://homepages.hs-bremen.de/~leuthold/IFUG/Feodora%20Professor%20Buch%20%282%29.pdf)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 18, 2013, 06:42:12 PM
Thanks. I am also interested in Dona's relationship with "Calma" Caroline Mathilde who married into King Christian IX's German branch of the family.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: joellegirl on September 10, 2016, 10:48:51 PM
In the many many pictures I have seen in books and online,I have never seen a picture of Willie and Dona's children with grandmother Vicky( I know about the strained relationship but wonder if  a picture was ever taken) or even Fritz when he was alive. Also I have never seen a picture of the children with Queen Victoria.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: thebelgianhare on July 14, 2017, 07:35:03 PM
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2j17eqx.jpg)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/260a2bc.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/353bhut.jpg)
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Forum Admin on July 14, 2017, 08:25:18 PM
I wish to remind users that due to International Copyright laws you can NOT post photos which are in copyright without permission of the copyright holder for images after 1923. Please do not post photos if you do not know the date or have copyright permission.

Thanks
FA
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: thebelgianhare on July 14, 2017, 09:54:37 PM
Hello, please may you tell me how you know if a mass produced old picture is in copyright? (as I genuinely don't know anymore!) I thought I did but now I don't think I do and I don't want to get the forum in trouble. Unless it states specifically on a photograph I don't know how to tell for an old picture, or even how it can be under copyright in most cases. Many of the large companies which watermark old photos claim they own them, but they were made available to the public to purchase or collect many years before, (for that was their sole purpose), and they are still available to buy and trade on personal selling sites and fairs etc freely today. It is those companies who watermark who are monopolising on them and marketing them, not us. Pictures of history truly belong in a public forum for everyone to see not to be used to make money

Most pictures are classed as antiques and available to buy and sell for a second time without going through the companies as there's many copies of them about as they were produced en masse and made available to the public from the Crown or the photographic company selling them. Unless it specifically states, or is from a copyrighted and current exhibition, how can you tell? (- genuine question). How is it a modern company can 'own' old pictures unless they have the rights from the crown or owners or those who sold it originally?

I'm a historian and I know if I wish to publish photos in a book or publication for profit, for business use, or in schools/universities then you have to get permission and that, generally, if you post a photo you didn't shoot yourself, you could be violating someone's copyright :- but those are for modern photos or rare privately owned archives from which you ask to gain permission from. but I wasn't aware this applied for all photos after 1923 and that you can't post old photos that were made public along time ago to a public historical/research forum for non profit.

I may have to stop posting photos here as I wouldn't want the forum to get into trouble since I don't quite understand how you know who owns each picture now or how you're expected to gain permission from the copyright holder when there is no rights-holder as such, as everything I posted were made public and sold to the public to distribute and for divulgation purposes years before any modern copyrighting existed... the purpose of such photos was to be seen by all. Also, standard, exceptions and limitations vary substantially from country to country so it is very confusing, (or maybe it's just me). Please may you tell me how to know if a picture is copyrighted and/or how to tell who owns them now. (genuine question I'm not arguing or attacking you). I'd be pleased to know what I am able to post so I do not breach anything for you.

Thank you
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Forum Admin on July 14, 2017, 11:21:55 PM
If you don't know, you shouldn't post the photo if it is more recent than 1923, to be certain.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Diotima on November 10, 2018, 11:21:49 AM
If people are still interested in books about Dona - there is a German writer, Karin Feuerstein-Prasser, who published a book about the three German empresses - Augusta, Victoria (Vicky) and Auguste Victoria. If you know German, it's an interesting read. The author has written also books about Prussian queens.

I agree with what most people here wrote - Dona's image as much beloved mother and empress is spoiled for me by her ungrateful, spiteful behaviour towards her unhappy mother in law.

I find it ironical that the marriages Vicky arranged all played out against her in the end. She strongly supported the match between her brother Bertie and Danish Alix that became one factor in the alienation of Germany and Britain - she supported her daughter's unhappy Battenberg romance - and she supported her son's marriage to Dona whose father she and Fritz liked very much. Vicky was, iirc, Dona's godmother and liked her initially.

Keeping her grandchildren from such a doting grandmother as Vicky was is really cruel.
Title: Re: Kaiserin Augusta Viktoria (Dona)
Post by: Marc on November 18, 2018, 02:41:20 PM
I find it ironical that the marriages Vicky arranged all played out against her in the end. She strongly supported the match between her brother Bertie and Danish Alix that became one factor in the alienation of Germany and Britain - she supported her daughter's unhappy Battenberg romance - and she supported her son's marriage to Dona whose father she and Fritz liked very much. Vicky was, iirc, Dona's godmother and liked her initially.

Well, surely, she had her reasons. Regarding Bertie, she knew that there are not many eligible Princesses around. Before that some of them considered Princess Elisabeth zu Wied, which he described as "not a beauty", let alone others, so she might opted for Alaexandra as her brother liked her from the beginning. Regarding Battenberg, she maybe only wanted her daughter happy, so, being a Battenberg was not so big problem in her eyes, compared to her daughters happiness. As for Dona, she might have supported her as they were closely related, Dona was granddaughter of her aunt Feodora.