Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Servants, Friends and Retainers => Topic started by: TennPat on May 05, 2004, 12:20:15 AM

Title: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: TennPat on May 05, 2004, 12:20:15 AM
Is there any published correspondence or journals from the noble Dr. Botkin?  I think he was a man of such honor. I wonder if his family resented his faithfulness to the Imperial Family?
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: JM on May 05, 2004, 08:18:09 AM
Perhaps it was . . . the truth. :o Does the honourable Dr. Botkin seem like the type to lie and decieve? BTW, I'm sure Anna would have been taken away before the family went to Tobolsk anyways. You can only fool ignortant soldiers so much. Who knows what the reprecussions for Anna and the family would've been when it was found out Anna was well all along.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on May 11, 2004, 02:55:23 PM
I second the motion!  My impressions of Anna Vyrubova have been varied, and I certainly have much more respect for her after reading the transcript of that horrible interrogation--I think she conducted herself quite well--but it's possible Dr. Botkin felt she was creating a disturbance in the middle of an already dicey situation. Dr. Botkin tried to operate out of reason, whereas Anna tended toward the emotional--so much so that she was, as Alexandra wrote to Nicholas, "Our Big Baby." It's impossible to understand all the  ramifications of what was going on at that time, but I doubt Dr. Botkin meant harm to her . . . his logic was probably that of a teacher who has identified a child with disruptive behaviors and requests that the child be placed elsewhere before the entire classroom atmosphere disintigrates.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: jackie3 on May 11, 2004, 03:13:18 PM
Quote
Perhaps Botkin thought that Anna was doing more harm than good. I remember reading something about Lily Dehn trying to keep Anna away from the Emperor and Empress when the Emperor had just returned after his abdication because Anna sometimes did utterly foolish things and Lily was one of many people who was afraid that Anna would endanger them. Botkin might have thought  that she could do less harm when she was away from the palace.


I've always had the impression from everything I've read that even though Anya was completely loyal to the Empress to the end of her life and no one doubted her loyalty, that others who were just as loyal like Lily, Botkin, Gilliard etc. didn't have as high an opinion of Anya as the Empress did. They didn't believe all the gossip that Anya was smart and a power behind the throne with intrigues, since they knew better, but it must have seemed to them that Alix and Nicholas spoiled her needlessly as if she was a sixth child.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Sarai on May 12, 2004, 07:31:45 AM
Quote
Alix and Nicholas may have "spoilt" her at times, but I also have the impression that Alix was sometimes quite annoyed about Anya and her behaviour.  


Yes, you're quite right in saying that Alix was sometimes annoyed with Anna. I recall reading somewhere that there was a period in their lives when Alix referred to Anna as "that cow" or something like that, and included other offensive remarks in her letters to Nicholas. The tone of the letters indicate that she was clearly not kidding around and was truly irritated by Anna. Some have speculated that she felt a bit of jealousy of Anna because she was spending time with Nicholas. But this all seems to have passed, as they were still good friends again later. Anyone else recall these passages?
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Janet_W. on May 12, 2004, 12:26:31 PM
I don't remember any passages re: Anna getting--ahem--tipsy. But if you find them, please post! Anna would be within her rights--considering her own sad story--to have gotten a little inebriated now and then.

And it's also not difficult to imagine the tension that could result from one very happily married couple "adopting" a socially awkward young woman with a rather emotional personality.

As their correspondence indicates, whatever tensions there were did not destroy the bond between Anna and her mentors, but certainly Alexandra didn't need--in addition to all of her other worries--a calf-eyed young woman mooning around after her husband, innocent though Anna may ultimately have proven to be!
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Guinastasia on May 14, 2004, 05:23:28 PM
I've always gotten the impression that Anya was basically like the annoying, pushy kid sister, the tagalong you basically hung out with because you felt sorry for her.  She wasn't evil, but she was incredibly annoying.

I've also heard that Botkin pretty much saved her life-wouldn't she have almost certainly been killed otherwise?
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: JM on May 14, 2004, 05:54:44 PM
Did Dr. Botkin actually tell the truth about Anna's condition? If he did, good for him. I'm glad he did it. There was no alternative.

I'm sure Anna probhably wanted to share in the IF's fate, whatever it was. She really didn't have much of a life by herself.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: LisaDavidson on May 14, 2004, 10:41:31 PM
Perhaps there is a simpler explanation for what Dr. Botkin did. Had he been untruthful and said Ania could not travel, there was a possibility of the government bringing in another physician for a second opinion. Had he proven to be wrong, his word as a physician would have no longer been trusted by members of the Provisional Government. By being honest and medically ethical, he was ensuring his word would be trusted - which in the long run could only help himself and the Romanovs.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Richard_Schweitzer on June 21, 2005, 11:48:59 PM
Apparently some of his medical journals were preserved and are in the Russian State Archives, we have seen a photocopy of one complete booklet.

He aslo wrote a famous set of published letters from the front in the Russo-Japenese war, when (I think) he was Chief of Military Medical Services. Gleb was given a copy that came from the library of the Dowager Empress, but lent it to the son of his brother Yuri who was then working at a hospital in PA. It was never returned. Story of Glebs life!

It was probably his actions in that conflict that led the Japanese to send agents into Russia to find any members of his family that might be rescued. Which is how Gleb escaped, on a Japanese destroyer to Japan.

RRS
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: AGRBear on June 23, 2005, 11:49:23 AM
Did Dr. Bothkin's medical journals, which were preserved and are in the Russian State Archives of which you have a photocopy of one complete booklet, hold information on Tsarvich Alexei's condition which has been thought to be hemophilia.?


AGRBear
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Richard_Schweitzer on June 23, 2005, 08:02:04 PM
The one copy we have seen does not appear (at least to me) to refer to the Tsarevitch.
I can't say about the others that may be there. After all, as Chief Physician, he brought in Dr. Derevenko, a specialist in hematology.

I would be more interested in having them read by scientists who could tell if he were observing symptoms in the Empress's  conditiions (from time to time) that have since been identified today with Porfiria; and which may have afflicted A. as well.

RRS
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Arleen on July 04, 2005, 04:38:31 PM
Please tell us more about Dr. Botkin!  I have such an interest in this man and don't know much about him.

Mr. Schweitzer does your family have any pictures of him, or maybe of his family?  Anything would be greatly appreciated.  Did Gleb Botkin manage to save any family papers or letters?

..Arleen

Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Richard_Schweitzer on July 04, 2005, 10:33:35 PM
We do have some pictures of Dr. Botkin and of him with his children. Some I think were given to Marina by her Aunt Tatiana, and I think T's granddaughters  may still have the major portion of them. I think that practically all pictures we have have been reproduced in various publications.

As for "papers," we have none from Dr. Eugene, so far as I am aware, unless  they are copies that have appeared elsewhere and been sent to Marina in the past. It is possible again that T might have saved some letters or something. Her escape was under less pressure than Gleb's.

Gleb was, and remained on, a Bolshevik "death list" for many years - even after he came to this country. He actually made it to the Japanese destroyer under fire.

Gleb did write at least two articles for the "North American Review," one especially pertinent now about his joy at becoming an "American."
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 04, 2005, 10:45:11 PM
Some years ago, I toured the Russian Military Medical Museum on Lazaretny Per. in Saint Petersburg. In the collection I noticed a oil painting of a very distinguished gentleman in military uniform. I asked the Commandant about this portrait and he told me it was of Dr. Botkin. I of course then asked if it was the Dr. Botkin that served as the physician to Nicholas II. He told me that it was not but that this Dr. Botkin was more important because of his advances in Russian medicine. I believe that the Commandant told me that he was a relative of the younger Dr. Gleb Botkin. Did Dr. Gleb Botkin come from a family of medical doctors? Who might this older man be?

DAP

Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 05, 2005, 12:19:26 AM
The doctor about whom I was inquiring was Doctor Sergei Pavlovich Botkin, Imperial Court Physician and father of Doctor Evgenie Botkin, Imperial Court Physician. I did find a link about the Military Medical Museum below:

http://www.museum.com/ja/museum/id=18643&show=2

DAP
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Arleen on July 05, 2005, 12:48:17 PM
What an interesting site David, I would like to visit that museum.  Too bad the part about Dr. S. Botkin was in Russian....I would like to have read that part too.

Does anyone know if any of Dr. Eugene Botkin's grandchildren became Physicians?

..Arleen
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Richard_Schweitzer on August 01, 2005, 01:51:21 PM
I may have posted this elsewhere.

Dr Eugene Botkin's father was the noted physician Sergius, who is known as "The Father of Russian Medicine."

Sergius was the son of Peter Botkin a fabulously wealthy merchant who wanted to send Sergius into the Army (I think because he was not interested in the family business) but instead turned over his care to a half=brother Vassily, who was a famous "Liberal" in his younger days, friend of Herzen, patron of Gogol and others - and a "businessman."

Sergius became personal physician (and  friend) to Alexander II and by succession to Alexander III, who would have no others after Sergius died.

Sergius had other son's who were physicians. Eugene's older brother Sergei was head of the Military Medical School (if I remember correctly). Sergei married the daughter of Paul Treytchakov(sp?) the noted art patron.
There are two famous portraits of Sergius and Sergei in that collection.

Richard Schweitzer
s24rrs@aol.com
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Caleb on November 29, 2005, 05:09:55 PM
Who was Dr. Botkin's wife & what happened to Tania?
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Sarushka on November 29, 2005, 08:54:37 PM
The memoirs of Tatiana Melnik-Botkina include a few of her father's letters. I believe I got my copy from kniga.com. It's called Vospominaniya O Tsarskoi Cem'e.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Nicolas on December 28, 2007, 07:17:00 PM
Yes, there's a lot of letters in Tatiana's books ...

My great Uncle, Constantin Melnik, had the privilege to see the last Dr Botkin's letter remained in the Russian's archive, during his trip for the Burial ceremony of Imperial Family, servants and of course his grandfather Dr Botkin.

Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Nicolas on December 29, 2007, 11:45:07 AM

Does anyone know if any of Dr. Eugene Botkin's grandchildren became Physicians?

..Arleen

He had by his daughter Tatiana 3 grandchildren (2 Girls, 1 boy), and no physician.
But he had 10 great grandchildren (7 girls and 3 boys), and 2 Boys are surgeons.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: amelia on December 29, 2007, 01:02:53 PM
Thank you so much for the letter Nicolas. It is interesting that he says the same sentence "I am dead" as he said in a letter addressed to his children, which I read but can not remember where.

Thanks again
Amelia
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Nicolas on December 29, 2007, 01:10:24 PM
Hello Amelia,
I think i'm remember it also and i think it was in "Au temps des Tsars"
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Terence on December 29, 2007, 08:50:59 PM
Very interesting, this fatalistic quote that foretold his fate.  Would someone be so kind as to provide the context translated to English, maybe the sentences before and after?
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Nicolas on December 30, 2007, 07:06:47 AM
My english is so bad to translate all the letter but the last sentence is :
E. BOTKINE was interrupted in the middle of a word on the night of July 17, 1918
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Terence on December 30, 2007, 07:21:51 PM
Thanks Nicolas.  How very chilling and sad.

I was actually wondering about the point where he said "I am dead", how he came to mention that.  Don't struggle to translate more if you find it difficult, I'll try an online translator.

BTW, do not think poorly of your English skills. I truly admire anyone who is able to understand other languages than their native tongue.  You do very well.  I don't think I'm alone when I say I'm glad you found this place and thanks for sharing here.

Regards,
Terry
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Nicolas on December 30, 2007, 07:56:09 PM
It's a pleasure Terry, i'm glad to share this kind of informations with people who are interested by this part of History.
thanks for my skills in english, that rassures me :-)

In this french version we don't know how he know they will die ... i'm not sure we will learn more in the Russian version ... i think the translataion was made by my great Uncle and i can try to have more information about that.

Thank for your interst
Nicolas
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: amelia on December 31, 2007, 08:33:59 AM
Nicolas,

I am so glad you are part of this forum to give us information on this extraodinary family.Thank you Amelia
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Nicolas on January 01, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
Thanks a lot Amelia !!

I will try to come regulary and answer any ask when it will be possible !!
Happy new year !!
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Lady Macduff on June 02, 2014, 08:23:06 PM
Didn't want to start a new thread since I knew my question would probably get moved to this one anyway. I know Dr. Botkin is infamous for the strong French cologne he always wore, but does anyone know the name of it?
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 11, 2015, 05:00:28 AM
(http://www.nashaepoha.ru/_Images/Editor/botkin_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on January 19, 2015, 08:54:38 PM
Any photos of  his  decendants
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 20, 2015, 02:18:47 PM
Any photos of  his  decendants

Here is a topic dedicated to his children: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=180.0 It does have some photos as well.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: PAGE on June 07, 2018, 04:43:57 PM
Hello,

I am new to the forum and English is not my first language, so be indulgent.

I'm doing research on the imperial family, and I found a lot of documents and information. I think many are new, and I want to post them, little by little.

I want to share an article called "My brother". It was written by Pierre Botkine in 1920 and published in La Revue de Paris (pp. 134-151). He talks about his brother, Dr. Eugène Botkine. Of course, it is in French, and I do not have the English skills to translate it precisely.

http://archive.org/stream/larevuedjanfeb1920pariuoft#page/134/mode/2up (http://archive.org/stream/larevuedjanfeb1920pariuoft#page/134/mode/2up)

There are details of his treatment of the Empress, the cure at Nauheim, the Emperor Nicholas II, the typhus of Tatyana, Rasputin, the war, the exile in Siberia ... There are several letters from Eugene Botkin to his brother. Some were written in Tobolsk.

It is very touching and moving.
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: Inok Nikolai on June 17, 2018, 11:59:49 AM
(http://www.nashaepoha.ru/_Images/Editor/botkin_1.jpg)

New church to be built in honor of Dr. Eugene Botkin in Ekaterinburg.

http://orthochristian.com/113728.html
Title: Re: Dr Evgeniy Sergeevitch Botkin (1865-1918)
Post by: PAGE on June 17, 2018, 12:21:34 PM
Beautiful information of the day.