Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Palaces in Moscow => Topic started by: amedeo on May 22, 2005, 08:34:01 AM

Title: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: amedeo on May 22, 2005, 08:34:01 AM
This Palace now is destroyed, but in the past was very big, it was used by Imperial Family until Napoleon moved war to Russia

Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: amedeo on May 22, 2005, 08:35:16 AM
In the former site of the Palace now there is a beautiful park
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: amedeo on June 01, 2005, 01:25:17 PM
Catherine II did not like the palace when it was completed and so she wanted it to be destroy and rebuilt but she died and so the palace has been forgotten.
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: gleb on June 22, 2005, 11:47:25 AM

Tsarytsino is now a delitful garden and parc.
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: antol on June 28, 2005, 01:38:08 AM
Quote
Catherine II did not like the palace when it was completed and so she wanted it to be destroy and rebuilt but she died and so the palace has been forgotten.


As they said on TV a few weeks ago, the palace has never been completed inside because Catherine the Great died and her son didn’t want to spend funds to complete the building, so it was desolated. Now Moscow’s government is going to restore the palace and build the insides, but nobody knows what plan will be used (as you could see in the photos, the palace has nothing but the walls and the grass grows inside it. The palace is expected to be a museum when rebuilt.

Meanwhile I visited the place again and made some new photos (2005.June.23).
http://acritum.com/tol/photos/tsaritsino/ .

You can see more magnificent photos (mostly Russian temples, monasteries and churches) at http://acritum.com/tol/photos/ . Some of them are 8-10 centuries old.


Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: londo954 on June 28, 2005, 02:42:06 AM
For the record the palace at Tsaritsyno was never completed because Catherine lost interest in it....It was designed by the Russian Bazenhov who designed many buildings for Catherine most of which were never completed. He did complete the arsenal in St. Petersburg and his most ambitious project was the propesed reconstruction of teh Kremlin to create a grand neoclassical edifice. Had it been completed it would have neccesitated the removal a great portion of the Krmlin walls along the river. I have seen pics of teh model and it would have indeed been grand!!!
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: antol on June 28, 2005, 03:31:00 AM
Quote
For the record the palace at Tsaritsyno was never completed because Catherine lost interest in it....


This is just a part of the story. The whole story (in my rough translation):

1775 Vasiliy Ivanovich Bazhenov begins to build the palace. The project was finished 1785. On Summer 1785 Catherine visits the place and, as they say, shouts “it’s a gaol but not a palace!” and orders to destruct it and build a new one. Matwey Fedorovich Kazakov was supposed to build a new palace. Kazakov destructed the palace completely but was not able to build a new one: he constructed 2-storey walls (which you can see now in the photos) and the roofs, which existed until the 1880s. After Catherine died in 1796 the palace was desolated. A partial restoration of the palace took place only in 1980-1990s but it still looks like picturesque debris.

This stuff in Russian (full version): http://www.msk.hop.ru/refer/73.htm

Tsaritsino official homepage: http://www.museum.ru/M286
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: nikks on September 04, 2005, 05:11:46 AM
The official site in not very beautiful   :'(
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Tsarfan on January 13, 2006, 02:11:50 PM
Quote
Tsaritsino official homepage: http://www.museum.ru/M286


In looking at the aerial shot, I must say that Catherine was right.  It does look more like a prison than a palace.  
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on April 11, 2006, 11:47:00 AM
Nobody talks about Tsaritsyno the old palace in ruins of CAtherine 2 the great which should be reconstruct in this year...

Has someone some shots,photographies of the places or informations...?

Thanks all of us,

Vassili
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 02, 2006, 02:52:02 AM
Here some photos of the estate of Tsaristsino by Wandering camera...
http://www.enlight.ru/camera/caricino/index_e.html

Please tell me if you have some photos or informations about the reconstruction...
Thanks Vassili
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: frimousse on May 03, 2006, 12:19:24 PM
The palace was never ended as Catherine disliked the building.
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 03, 2006, 01:58:59 PM
Yes this story is as a myth...Do you think that is  better to complete the monument or to let him as a  romantics ruins?

Vassili
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: frimousse on May 03, 2006, 08:09:37 PM
Life has to be romantic, don't you think?
 ;)
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 13, 2006, 03:58:01 AM
MORE about a restoration which should create a fake... :'( excerpt ot the websitehttp://www.maps-moscow.com/index.php?chapter_id=151&data_id=60&do=view_single
 Scandals at Tsaritsyno

Tsaritsyno, one of Moscow’s most romantic attractions, a ruined, unfinished eighteenth century palace, is being illegally ‘finished’ by Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov who has declared that he wants the building to be completed and transformed into Moscow’s equivalent of the Hermitage museum. Despite having no official permissions to carry out the construction work that will give the palace a roof, windows, partitions and an interior, Mr Luzhkov is continuing work apace.

Tsaritsyno has stood unused and unfinished since 1785 when Catherine the Great decided that she didn’t like the work of architects Vassily Bazhenov and Matvei Kazakov who had created a palace in a fantastic hybrid of Gothic and Classical styles in the midst of a landscaped park. It has since become beloved of Muscovites as a picturesque ruin and a memorial to imperial whims.
Vassili
Work commenced in December without an approved plan. Preservationist experts were horrified to see that despite this a metal roof support has already been erected. Two projects exist for the roof, one of them far more elaborate than the other. It is as yet unknown which will be constructed.

The elegant ‘Bread House’ beside the main palace building, is almost restored, and yet its courtyard is to be covered by a high glass dome that will compete with the palace’s roof in height. Visitors will enter the palace through an underground entrance in a glass pavilion, to be built in the style of the palace, much to the concern of specialists. Restoration of the existing walls is also underway; concrete and metal are being used in the restoration process, which is being undertaken with great haste in order for the building to be ready for Moscow’s City Day in summer 2007. Alexei Komech, Director of Moscow’s Art History Institute noted, “throughout the country we are losing thousands of wonderful buildings through lack of funds. But in the case of the Tsaritsyno ensemble, a masterpiece is being deformed because there is too much money in the Moscow building market.”
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on May 26, 2006, 06:36:18 PM
Another new article:  http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article571677.ece

Catherine the Great's palace gets PVC makeover

By Andrew Osborn in Moscow
Published: 25 May 2006
The Mayor of Moscow, Yuri Luzhkov, has been accused of vandalism for steaming ahead with plans to build a mock Tsarist complex on the substantial remains of an 18th-century palace that belonged to Catherine the Great.

Construction of Tsaritsyno, a Gothic red-brick palace conceived as a summer residence for Catherine the Great, began in 1775 on the crest of a hill in southern Moscow. The estate was supposed to rival her magnificent retreats in St Petersburg but the palace was never completed due to architectural disputes and the death of the Empress in 1796. Until now Muscovites assumed it would remain that way.

But more than 200 years after its foundations were first laid, Mr Luzhkov is taking up where Catherine left off with a project that some see as a self-indulgent attempt to leave behind a historical legacy.

To general disbelief, the palace is being completed according to a design personally approved by the Mayor that bears little resemblance to the original.

An army of migrant workers from the former Soviet Union is rushing to do the Mayor's bidding fitting roofs where there were no roofs, erecting grand entrances, and replacing stone blocks with breeze blocks.

The palace's kitchens, a grand quadrangular structure called the Bread House, appear to be sporting white PVC windows. Brushing aside historical authenticity, the Mayor is also adding underground space to the palace to get some "added value" out of it.

He is in such a rush to get the new palace ready by 2008 that construction work began illegally at the end of 2005 without planning permission.

The project was initially welcomed by art historians who thought Mr Luzhkov would preserve the estate's substantial remains.

Now many fear the worst and believe Tsaritsyno is the latest victim of Mr Luzhkov's obsession with knocking down old buildings only to rebuild them from scratch with modern materials and "more practical designs".

"It [the new palace] is being built too quickly using many modern materials," Marina Khrustaleva,from the Moscow Architecture Preservation Society, said.

"Restoration is something that is done on the basis of what you can prove was once there, and is expensive. Here something altogether new is being built. I am afraid that Tsaritsyno will be spoilt."

The Mayor of Moscow, Yuri Luzhkov, has been accused of vandalism for steaming ahead with plans to build a mock Tsarist complex on the substantial remains of an 18th-century palace that belonged to Catherine the Great.

Construction of Tsaritsyno, a Gothic red-brick palace conceived as a summer residence for Catherine the Great, began in 1775 on the crest of a hill in southern Moscow. The estate was supposed to rival her magnificent retreats in St Petersburg but the palace was never completed due to architectural disputes and the death of the Empress in 1796. Until now Muscovites assumed it would remain that way.

But more than 200 years after its foundations were first laid, Mr Luzhkov is taking up where Catherine left off with a project that some see as a self-indulgent attempt to leave behind a historical legacy.

To general disbelief, the palace is being completed according to a design personally approved by the Mayor that bears little resemblance to the original.

An army of migrant workers from the former Soviet Union is rushing to do the Mayor's bidding fitting roofs where there were no roofs, erecting grand entrances, and replacing stone blocks with breeze blocks.
The palace's kitchens, a grand quadrangular structure called the Bread House, appear to be sporting white PVC windows. Brushing aside historical authenticity, the Mayor is also adding underground space to the palace to get some "added value" out of it.

He is in such a rush to get the new palace ready by 2008 that construction work began illegally at the end of 2005 without planning permission.

The project was initially welcomed by art historians who thought Mr Luzhkov would preserve the estate's substantial remains.

Now many fear the worst and believe Tsaritsyno is the latest victim of Mr Luzhkov's obsession with knocking down old buildings only to rebuild them from scratch with modern materials and "more practical designs".

"It [the new palace] is being built too quickly using many modern materials," Marina Khrustaleva,from the Moscow Architecture Preservation Society, said.

"Restoration is something that is done on the basis of what you can prove was once there, and is expensive. Here something altogether new is being built. I am afraid that Tsaritsyno will be spoilt."
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 27, 2006, 09:06:11 AM
Does some knows that Luzkov ,mayor of Moscow has for project to reconstruct Kolomenskoye,the well-known wooden palace presented as one of the 8 most beautiful place of the world at the moment of the construction...

If everything goes as it has been announced ,it will be reconstructed just after Tsaritsyno,I'm impatient of seing how they would restore it...probably a fake like Tsaritsyno...it's a pity not to care for historical reality!But for the mayor what matter is to be more competitiv with St Petersbourg in the cultural field...
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 27, 2006, 05:17:42 PM
As for Kolomenskoye much is told on the ASSOCIATE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURE,CONSTRUCTION, DEVELOPMENT AND RECONSTRUCTION OF MOS[ch1057]OW website,however it lacks of objectiv point of view,(it's more focused on business than architecture problems...)nobody is perfect and probably not leaders in Moscow...-There too I'm biased...

http://www.stroi.ru/eng/default.aspx?m=36&d=37

Vassili
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on December 28, 2006, 04:21:08 AM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/05100120041.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/05100120083.jpg)

The park would be restored in his old appearance meanwhile 2008...(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/05100120056.jpg)

I'll post later views of the opera that is already open for concerts...
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: ipflo on December 28, 2006, 05:08:57 AM
Vassili,

thx for the pictures, and keeping us up to date about Kolomenskoye and Tsaritsino. I am still not sure what to think about it.

ipflo
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on February 11, 2007, 11:48:17 AM
Ipflo,

Cultural field in Russia is still decided by a circle of happy few,as a matter of fact we should be "blessed with joy" at the idea the spend money on restoring this,the reconstruction as for its mistakes and destructed that is led is controversial...

vASSILI who hopes that somebody could undertsand a little of what he said...
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on February 19, 2007, 08:43:22 AM
I found the image of the staue dedicated to Catherine II in the palace(it has just been restored),the statue has been  made by Alexandre Opekushina,sent to Armenia durind the soviet area ih has been gisted to Russia in 2003.

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/AlexandreOpekushinatsritsyne.jpg)

I've also found this interview of an expert of art on Tsaritsyne restoration as a fake(it is  in russian only)
www.rustunnel.ru/interviews/37.html
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 24, 2007, 09:16:45 AM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/photo2.gif)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/hl2.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/hl1.jpg)

Views of the restored palace
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on March 24, 2007, 09:28:59 AM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/scheme.jpg)
Even if it is in russian ,it is interesting to discover how the restoration has renew the for the better I hope the buildings...
The more interesting must be the comparison between 19th century state,prerevolutionnal and photos dating back the soviet areas...
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/B1.gif)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/B2.gif)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/B4.gif)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/B5.gif)

A museum of fashion has been open there.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/udashkin2.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/Russia/udashkin.jpg)

http://www.tsaritsyno-museum.ru/restoration.htm
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vladimir_V. on September 09, 2007, 03:09:13 AM
Tsaritsino after reconstruction:

http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/691836/post49957083/

http://ig-ga.livejournal.com/11351.html

http://blogs.mail.ru/mail/natalya_sergevna/63FB5D3E72602D2B.html

http://photo4you.livejournal.com/26696.html

http://planeta.rambler.ru/users/wikosha/24088808.html

http://planeta.rambler.ru/users/wikosha/24089763.html

http://community.livejournal.com/idu_shagayu/1252827.html


Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: ipflo on September 09, 2007, 04:33:01 AM
thx for the pictures
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Mari on October 24, 2007, 08:06:38 AM
Yes, thank you for the Pictures and please if you have any more post them.
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on November 03, 2007, 11:15:00 AM
I fixed some of there...

So beautiful !

I hope one day this look more ancient...there is something peculiar :the reconstruction seems so new in fact ...it is stupid but this strikes me.

It would be fine if some could add shots of the interiors...this pledge for being magnificient!


Vassia
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/tsaritsyno/s320x240.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/tsaritsyno/00075pqa.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/tsaritsyno/00073bpt.jpg)

By the way,who are the two mens represented by this sculpture?

Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 04, 2007, 11:15:38 AM
The architects V. Bazhenov and M. Kazakov. They built Tsaritsino for Catherine II.

By the way, there is an official website in English: http://www.tsaritsyno-museum.ru/English_vers/mainE.htm

Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on November 10, 2007, 07:05:16 PM
I've spent an hour looking for shots of the interiors,here you can see the result of my search, I add also some pics of the works, of Luzkov presenting the palace  and many generals views of this gorgeous estate.

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/tDSC_0889_jpg-300.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t1.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/topd.gif)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_50.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_49.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_47.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_68.jpg)


Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on November 10, 2007, 07:09:11 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/tbridge.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/tXGetDBPicServlet.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/tmyzei250kyksin.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t0000008126-109397-4212949-.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t0000008126-109397-4212952-.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/tkr1.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/tkr2.jpg)
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on November 10, 2007, 07:12:51 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t0000008126-109397-4212954-.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t0000008126-109397-4212948-.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t0000008126-109397-4212946-.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_70.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_31.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_46.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_38.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_29.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_32.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_28.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_55.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t0000008126-109397-4217549-.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_44.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_42.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_43.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_41.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_4.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t33_39.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t9b360794351473e7ff3353c0213503ad.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t2dv.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/t.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/vassiliv/moscou/tputin-lujkov-caricino250zav.jpg)

That's all!
Vassia
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: dmitri on January 24, 2008, 07:18:28 PM
I'm not quite sure what to think. The only thing is to try to be positive and see this as something for the people of Moscow to enjoy if there is another museum that might bring some added pleasure for them. Let's not begrudge them this.
Title: Re: Tsarytsino,palace in reconstruction
Post by: susana on July 04, 2008, 06:32:49 PM
Even if the construction isn't historically accurate it looks like a beautiful job. I trudged through the grounds in the snow in March 2003 to see the palace--it was hauntingly romantic even though it had never been finished. I'd LOVE to visit the museum and of course hear music in the pristine-looking opera house. Many thanks to all for the pictures.