Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Italian Royal Families => Topic started by: cimbrio on June 01, 2005, 02:55:43 AM

Title: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on June 01, 2005, 02:55:43 AM
Hello everyone,
I know this isn't technically an "Iberian" Royal Family since they reigned in Parma and Piacenza (Italy) but all the same, since their Bourbons, I thought this'd be the ebst place to post this question. I'm very interested in the extended family of Roberto I of Bourbon-Bourbon, Duke of Parma (1848-1907). I'm especially interested in having information on his children's lives, as well as his wives, and seeing photos of them all. This is his family:

(by his 1st wife, Princess María Grazia Pía of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1849-1882)
1. Maria Luisa (1870-1899), married Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg, Prince of Bulgaria (she was never Tsarina of Bulgaria, since her husband proclaimed himself Tsar in 1908, after her death). She died in childbirth.
2. Ferdinando (1871-1872). Died aged 1 in Cannes.
3. Luisa Maria (1872-1943). Died unmarried in Brunsee (Austria)
4. Enrico (Henry) I (1873-1939). Died unmarried in Pianore.
5. Inmacolata (1874-1914). Died unmarried on the eve of WWI.
6. Giuseppe (Joseph) (1875-1950). Died unmarried.
7. Maria Teresa (1876-1959). Died unmarried in Brunsee.
8. Maria Pia (1877-1915). Died unmarried in Rorschacherberg.
9. Beatrice (1879-1946). Married the Italian Noble Pietro Lucchesi Palli and had children.
10. Elias (1880-1959), married Maria Anna of Austria and had issue.
11. Maria Anastasia (1881-1881) died at age 13 days.
12. Augusto (1882-1882) Born and died on the same day.

(by second wife, Maria Antonia of Bragança (1862-1959)
13. Adelaida (1885-1959), Died unmarried.
14. Sixte (1886-1934), married and had a daughter.
15. Franz-Xavier (1889-1977), married and had issue.
16. Francesca (Frances) (1890-1978), died unmarried.
17. Zita (1892-1898), married Karl I of Austria.
18. Felix (1893-1970); married Gd.Dchss. Charlotte I of Luxemburg. Had issue.
19. René (1894-1962), married Margarethe of denmark.
20.Maria Antonia (1895-1977), died unmarried.
21. Isabella (1898-1984), died unmarried.
22. Luigi (Louis) (1899-1967), married Maria of Savoy. had issue.
23. Enrichetta (henriette) (1903-1987). Died unmarried.
24. Gaetano (1905-1958), married Margarethe of Thurn und Taxis and had issue.

Phew! 24 Kids! Forward any info please? I know three daughters became nuns (I think they were from the second marriage), and one daughetr was deaf. Any info on anyone at all?
Dan :)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: gleb on June 01, 2005, 03:19:15 AM
LA VILLA DELLE PIANORE

 

La villa delle Pianore è un complesso di tre fabbricati, immerso in un parco di circa cinque ettari, ricco di piante esotiche e circondato da uliveti. I tre fabbricati sono: il palazzo del duca Roberto, la villa di Maria Teresa di Savoia e il moderno complesso della scuola.

La villa proprietà ei duchi di Borbone Parma fino al 1952, opera dell'architetto lucchese Martini e risale al 1888.

Al piano terra troviamo una splendida biblioteca, il salone di rappresentanza tappezzato di damasco rosso, una seconda sala di rappresentanza tappezzata in verde e la Sala Bianca decorata in stucco dorato. Era la sala da pranzo dei Principi.

Al primo piano vi sono lo studio del duca Roberto e le camere da letto dei Principi e al secondo piano quelle dei bambini e della servitù.

Attigua al palazzo si trova la villa di Maria Teresa di Savoia, figlia di Vittorio Emanuele I, re di Sardegna, moglie di Carlo di Borbone, duca di Lucca e di Parma, nonno di Roberto. La villa deriva dalla ristrutturazione di una costruzione settecentesca.

Il duca Roberto, nato nel 1848, divenne duca di Parma a soli sei anni. Nel 1859 il ducato entrò far parte del Regno d' Italia. Roberto si trasferìn Svizzera e poi in Francia fino a quando gli fu concesso di ritornare in Italia nei possedimenti di Camaiore, dove morì nel 1907. Il duca Roberto dette alle Pianore lo splendore di una vera corte.

E' sepolto nella cappella della tenuta di Viareggio (Villa Borbone).
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: gleb on June 01, 2005, 03:20:02 AM
The Duca Roberto died alle Pianore and he is buried there.

Zita also was born alle Pianore.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: gleb on June 01, 2005, 03:21:06 AM
http://www.borboneparma.it/ (http://www.borboneparma.it/)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on June 02, 2005, 02:07:56 AM
People, I have some absolutely shocking news which is going to amaze you and leave you amazed indeed for years on end!

I post this VALUABLE info thanks to my dear friend Gon (umigon). Muchas gracias nene Be ready to read about tragedy itself!


Maria Luisa (1870-1899) died in childbirth.

Ferdinand (1871-1872) died aged one.

Luisa (1872-1943) was mentally retarded.

Enrico (1873-1939) was officially Duke of Parma from 1907 till 1939 but he too was mentally retarded!

Inmacolatta (1874-1914) was also mentally retarded and was (possibly, need to evrify this) deaf and mute.

Giuseppe (1875-1950) officially Duke of Parma from 1939 till his death, he was also mentally retarded!

Maria teresa (1876-1959) was also retarded!

Pia (1877-1915) also retarded!

Beatrice (1879-1946) was absolutely normal and married.

Elias (1880-1959) Duke of Parma since 1950 and head of the family since his father's death in 1907.Married etc.

Anastasia (1881-1881) Died aged a few days, she might have been (this is an hypothesis) also retarded or suffered some illness. She might have just died young like many children at the time.

Augusto (1882-1882) Same as previous....

Adelaida became a nun in 1909 in Soresmes.

Sixto (see Sixtus Affair)

Xavier (see Carlists)

Francesca. Also a nun in Soresmes since 1915.

Zita. Empress of Austria.

Felix (see Charlotte of Luxemburg)

René.

Antonia. Also a nun in Soresmes from 1921.

Isabella died unmarried.

Enrichetta died unmarried.

Gaetano married.

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: gleb on June 02, 2005, 02:46:44 AM
It is also strange to think that Roberto had so many children and his brother Enrico, conte di  Bardi, who married the sisters of his brother's wives had none.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on June 02, 2005, 08:26:13 AM
Maybe Enrico di Bardi wasn't able to procreate. What do you know about him? Any photo of Roberto's retarded children?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: TampaBay on June 02, 2005, 08:40:02 PM
Arturo,

I would say that 24 kids is pretty shocking!  

I do not think the Prince of Burbon-Parma spent much time opening hospitals or serving as the director of the Boy Scouts/Girl Guides

He was out working to make money to pay for nannies & dowries.  Can you imagine paying for university for 24 children

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on June 02, 2005, 11:48:59 PM
Maybe the number of children as TB says plus the fact that so many died young or had physical disabilities. It would seem shocking by today's standards if not then. Plus the fact that one family could be so 'struck' so to speak.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on June 03, 2005, 03:20:56 AM
Are you seriously kidding? Out of the 12 children he ahd from his first marriage (having 24 is quite surprising but not shocking), 6, possibly 7, were born mentally retarded! I'd say that is pretty much shocking by any standard!!!!!! No wonder Roberto re-married soon after his first wife's death!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eurohistory on June 04, 2005, 10:01:44 PM


Shocking is not the word I would have chosen...amazing or incredible...being a prolific parent is not "shocking."

Take into consideration that the 24 children came from two wives and at a time when family planning was not an option and from a family that spoused deep conservative Catholic beliefs that stood for having as many children as God sent along...

As for the wealthy Duke of Parma, who possessed his own suite of private railroad carriages, having to go out and "work" to pay for these kids...rest assured, he never had to do so. Not only did he receive a considerble amount of lands and palaces from his Parmesan inheritance, but he also received a fantastic endowment (both financial and territorial) from his uncle the Comte de Chambord, which included large properties in France and the Austrian empire.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on June 04, 2005, 10:12:20 PM
Does the Comte de Chambord have anything to do with the Chateau of the same name in the Loire Valley? I toured that and it was gorgeous!  :)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: gleb on June 05, 2005, 06:49:38 AM
Quote
Does the Comte de Chambord have anything to do with the Chateau of the same name in the Loire Valley? I toured that and it was gorgeous!  :)


You are right,

When le Comte de Chambord was born, the castle was bought back and given the little prince as a gift. After his death it was inherited by Roberto di Parma who was his nephew, then by Elias and in 1914 was  confiscated  by the french State, as Elias was autrichien. It became after a museum.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eurohistory on June 05, 2005, 07:02:25 AM
The confiscation of the Chambord estate was a huge mess.  The family considered Chambord was not the private property of the Duke of Parma, but part of the entailed inheritance held by the head of the family.

Eventually the French government had to compensate the Bourbon-Parma family, since afterall some of Prince Elias' brothers fough on the Entente side durng the war.

Elias himself did not become head of the family until his seventieth year (1950) after the death ofhis elder brother, the incapacitated Duke Giuseppe.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: TampaBay on June 06, 2005, 08:26:10 AM
Quote

Shocking is not the word I would have chosen...amazing or incredible...being a prolific parent is not "shocking."

Take into consideration that the 24 children came from two wives and at a time when family planning was not an option and from a family that spoused deep conservative Catholic beliefs that stood for having as many children as God sent along...

As for the wealthy Duke of Parma, who possessed his own suite of private railroad carriages, having to go out and "work" to pay for these kids...rest assured, he never had to do so. Not only did he receive a considerble amount of lands and palaces from his Parmesan inheritance, but he also received a fantastic endowment (both financial and territorial) from his uncle the Comte de Chambord, which included large properties in France and the Austrian empire.

Arturo Beéche


Arturo,

You are correct.  I meant no offense to anyone-living or deceased.  I look at Queen Victoria's large brood and shake my head in wonderment that she did not go crazy raising all those "royal kids".  Imagine my thoughts when I read of the Duke of Parma having 24 "royal kids".

Of course I am applying 21st century culture and financial realities to 18th-19th century culture & financial realities (apples to oranges).  I apologize for my ignorance & gawking.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on June 13, 2005, 04:49:30 AM
TampaBay, no need for appologies I assure you!
I only said that the info I posted before was shocking because out of Roberto's first 12 children, at least 6, and possibly the three that died at a very young age) were mentally retarded, hence my references to "shocking" and "tragedy". Evidently I didn't mean any disrespect, nor was I alluding to the fact that he had 24 children (amazing as it is, he is not the most prolific royal at all). Keep the posts coming ;)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Jane on June 22, 2005, 01:40:16 PM
I wasn't aware that so many of the children from the Duke's first marriage suffered from poor mental and physical health.  The second "wave" of children, by a different mother, appears to be a relatively healthy crop, however.  

I'm speculating wildly here, with no hard facts to support this, but I wonder whether Princess Maria Grazia Pia might have had Rhesus-negative blood (e.g. blood type lacks certain proteins).

When a mother is Rh negative, and she gives birth to a child who is Rh positive (fairly likely, considering the vast majority of people have Rh positive blood), she begins to build up antibodies against future Rh-positive babies. The first baby is not affected because the antibody formation occurs mostly in the first few days after birth, in a response to the mixing of fetal and maternal blood at the time of the birth.

However, subsequent preganancies in an Rh negative mother may, in layman’s terms, result in stimulation of abnormal antibodies crossing the placenta, into the baby’s blood stream, triggering the destruction of the unborn child’s red blood cells.  The second pregnancy often produces a mildly anemic and /or jaundiced infant, while succeeding pregnancies produce more seriously affected infants.  In severe cases, newborn infants develop neurological syndromes which may, if they survive, lead to hearing loss, mental retardation, etc.

Rh incompatability went untreated until 1968, when an Rh immunoglobulin shot (which contains preformed antibodies and basically “resets” the mother’s body prior to the time when her body developed the antibodies) was developed.  Since then, Rh incompatability is no longer a threat to either mother or child.

I'm guessing that may have been the case here.  The pattern certainly fits.  I am thankful for modern medicine myself.

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on October 03, 2005, 08:37:39 AM
Duke Roberto with his siblings and mother.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/1865duhcessparmachildren.jpg)

The children are: Alicia 1849-1935
                           Margherita 1847-1893
                           Roberto 1848-1907
                           Enrico 1851-1905
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Daniela on October 06, 2005, 04:40:01 AM
You know, Roberto's mother Princess Luise in buried in crypt in Kostanjevica monastery. I live near by, and still I didn't visited it. Shame on me!  :-[

I'll put a link to the Kostanjevica monastery. It's in english to. On first page is a warning that the site is under construction. But if you do some clicking around you will see that there is a couple of informations...

Daniela

http://www.samostan-kostanjevica.si/
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on October 07, 2005, 06:36:20 AM
Duke Roberto with brother and mother

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/1865duhcessparmasons.jpg)


Thanks for link,Daniela!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 15, 2005, 09:42:01 AM
Hi cimbrio,

I have a great book called "Das Familienalbum von Kaiser Karl Und Zita" by Gabriele Praschl-Bichler. You can find lots of beautiful pictures of Empress Zita and her parents and siblings in it. For example there are pics of all children of Robert and his first wife Maria Pia.

If you would like to see some of them, just let me know.  ;D
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: bell_the_cat on October 15, 2005, 03:43:04 PM
Prince Gaetano's wife, Margarethe von Thurn und Taxis is still living,  I believe.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on October 15, 2005, 05:54:34 PM
I'm so looking forward to it!!!!

Gaetano's ex-wife is indeed still alive (born in 1909); Luigi's wife died four years ago (Maria of Savoy, 1914-2001) and René's died in 1992. Zita of course died in 1989, almost 70 years after her husband.

What did Prince Guido (Guy) of Bourbon-Parma (Luigi's son) die of? He lived from 1940 till 1991, divorced and with a child... I believe all of Luigi's kids divorced during their lifetime... Gaetano's daughter Diane also divorced her first (royal) husband.

What did Prince Jacques (René's son) die of? (1922-1964)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Tasha_R on October 19, 2005, 08:23:44 PM
I was always struck by how Zita reminded me of Tatiana Romanova.  Not that they look exactly alike... it's just that there's a resemblance...

Sincerely,
Tasha
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on November 08, 2005, 12:18:46 AM
I don't know if it was arranged but they were certainly happy together from all appearances. Their wedding was lovely--a good number of outdoor photos (which is so unusual in old royal photos) and everyone seemed to really be celebrating.

They had the following children:

Otto (b.1912); m.1951 Regina of Saxe-Meiningen

Adelheid (1914-1971)

Robert (1915-1996); m.1953 Margherita of Savoy

Felix (b.1916) m.1952 Anna-Eugénie von Arenberg

Carl (b.1918) m.1950 Yolande de Ligne

Rudolph (b.1919) ; m.(1) 1953 Countess Xenia Tschernyschev-Besobrasow (2) 1971 Anna Gabriele Fstn v.Wrede

Charlotte (1921-1989); m.1956 Georg Alexander, Duke of Mecklenburg (

Elisabeth (1922-1993); m.1949 Heinrich von und zu Liechtenstein

Zita only died a few years ago and it seems like her children inherited her longevity!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on November 08, 2005, 09:25:27 AM
At the time of their wedding, and in fact throughout the 19 and 20th centuries, the reigning Catholic monarchies in Europe were fairly isolated from the great and powerful monarchies, such as the Royal Family of Great Britain or the Hohenzollerns. Thus, Catholic princes and kings ahd to marry other princesses who were often closely related to them. Of these Catholic monarchies, one counts the Portuguese Braganzas, the Spanish Bourbons (who also reigned in the Two Sicilies and Parma) or the Austrian Habsburgs. Thence all the inbreeding that occurred between these royal families. (I suppose an exception were the Savoy, who, having unified Italy, estranged themselves from Catholic monarchies for a time).

Planned or not, the marriage was advantageous for both (Zita gained status, while Karl gained a considerable dowry through his wife); it also unified the Austrians and the Bourbons once again, for Zita's half brother Elia married archduchess Maria Anna of Austria some years before.

I know for a fact that Zita had originally wished to become a nun, like two of her sisters did (and a third would do after Zita's wedding). Considering that out of her twelve half siblings, six were mentally retarded, it is likelly that she and her family thought it necessary for them to amrry well, thus her wedding to the Austrian emperor, her brother Félix to Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxemburg or Luigi's marriage to an Italian princess.

Princess Maria Antonia of Portugal -their mother- seems to me a great match-maker.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: kmerov on November 09, 2005, 12:03:07 PM
Quote



What did Prince Jacques (René's son) die of? (1922-1964)


Prince Jacques died in a car accident.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Bernardino on December 28, 2005, 04:10:23 PM
Hello  :)

I'm interested in Maria Antonia of Portugal...She is a bit unknown to me, I mean she is immensely famous genealogically, but how was her personality?


Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on December 29, 2005, 06:26:45 AM
I don't know much about her either. I suppose she and the rest were very religious (three daughters becoming nuns suggests this anyway). I've also read that Zita wanted too to become a nun in the moanstery where her sisters lived (I cannot remember how many of them had taken the benedictine habit at Solesmes by then, but I'm sure that not all three sisters wrere nuns by the time Zita married). I imagine Maria Antónia was quite a matchmaker. I've also read that on the occasion of her son Luigi's wedding to Princess Maria of Savoy in 1939, crowds gathered to cheer Maria Antónia, and that it was the first time an ex-monarch from the pre-unification period (well, in this case the widow) was the object of such a manifestation of simpathy. The link with the House of Savoy was quite strong since Maria Antónia's eldest step-daughter was the mother of Boris III of Bulgaria (he married a Savoy himself), and she was the sister of the maternal grandmother of Queen Marie Josè of Savoy (born Princess of Belgium).

Maria Antónia's godchildren were her grandson Otto and Archduchess Maria Antonia Roberta of Habsburg-Lorraine, daughter of Leopold Salvator of Tuscanny and Blanca of Bourbon (Carlist branch). I imagine this Maria Antonia was named after her godmother; her godfather was Duke Roberto.

Maria Antónia died in 1959 in the Château de Berg, in Luxemburg. Did she become a resident mother-in-law of her niece and daughter-in-law Charlotte I of Luxemburg or was she paying her son Felix a visit t his wife's court there?

Maria Antónia was survived by the following children:
Francesco-Saverio, Francesca, Zita, Felix, René, Maria Antonia, Isabella, Luigi and Enrichetta. Her daughter Adelaide (the eldest) died the same year as Maria Antónia,  the previous February).
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Bernardino on December 29, 2005, 07:36:52 AM
Thank you very much Cimbrio  

Maria Antonia must have been for sure a great lady of the Gotha...She died very old, like her mother and her paternal aunt Pss of Beira, and it is notorious that some of her descendants must have inherited this characterist...e.g. Archduke Otto...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: cimbrio on December 29, 2005, 09:28:50 AM
That's OK Bernardino; my research isn't at all academic and I wish I had a book on the Parma's... perhpas if I ever go to that part of Italy...  ;D
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: frohsdorf on January 10, 2006, 07:43:43 PM
The Bourbon Parma family is very illustrious, descending as they do from the Kings of France, Spain, Naples and the Emperors of Austria.  However, from the latter part of the 19th century into the early 20th century, it was also one of most incestuous and inbred.   Many will object to the use of the word "incestuous" when referring to European royalty, BUT---

When inter-family marriages are repeated over and over again, from one generation to the next, when cousins marry cousins and nieces marry uncles,  etc, it spells disaster genetically.  

This was the case of the marriage of Robert of Bourbon-Parma and his first wife, Maria Pia of Bourbon-Sicily.  If you examine the tangled family relationships, you'll note that they were VERY closely related and had common ancestors going back MANY generations.  

Of the twelve children they had, only three were judged to possess normal intelligence:  Marie Louise, Elias, and Beatrice.  The other nine were definitely retarded and had to be supervised all of their lives.  The two elder boys, Joseph and Henry, spent most of their lives under supervision at Villa delle Pianore, the Parma chateau near Viareggio.  

Prince Elias was made acting Head of the Family under the terms of his father's last will and testament. As noted in a previous listing, Elias became "Duke of Parma" in 1950.   He ensured that his retarded siblings received the supervision and care required.  

All twelve of the children of Robert and Maria Antoinia, his second wife, were normal, although not particularly good-looking.  The best-looking Bourbon-Parma princess from that generation, Maria Antoinia, became a nun.  An existing photograph taken prior to her vows shows a stunning young woman.

Robert of Bourbon-Parma was an extremely wealthy man.  Not only did he inherit a vast fortune from his uncle, the Comte de Chambord, but he was also the heir of his grandfather, Charles II of Parma, who died in the spring of 1883 (Chambord died in the fall of 1883).  Charles II (known at the Comte de Villafranca) left his extremely valuable library of religious books to his grandson, for example.

Robert owned four significent properties:

Chateau de Chambord in France
Chateau Schwarzau-am-Steinfeld  in Austria
Villa delle Pianore in Italy
Chateau Wartegg in Switzerland

Chambord is now a museum and can be visited, of course.
Schwarzau is a women's prison and cannot be visited.
Pianore is a school but can be visited if arrangements are made beforehand.  Wartegg stood abandoned for many years, but has now been turned into a fine hotel.

The Bourbon-Parma family, by and large, are buried in the crypt of the Villa Borbone (or Tenuta Reale) just outside Viareggio, Italy---not too far from Pianore.  Villa Borbone is now owned by the city, but the adjoining chapel and crypt are owned by Archduke Dominik of Austria, the great-grandson of Princess Marguerite of Bourbon-Parma, Duchesse de Madrid----Robert of Bourbon-Parma's elder sister.

I've always been interested in the relationship between Prince Elias and his half-brothers, Xavier and Sixte.  I believe there was some discord in the family regarding their father's estate and the distribution of the enormous proceeds from the confiscation of the Chateau de Chambord.  Does anyone have any information on this?





Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on January 29, 2006, 07:04:32 PM
I find this thread to be particularly fascinating since they were all descendants of that rascal Artois (Charles X). Who would have thought that of his siblings, he and his unhappy wife would have had so many descendants?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on February 05, 2006, 01:10:32 PM
Duke Elias and A.Dss Maria-Anna had 8 children :

1. Elisabeth (1906-83 or 84)
2. Charles-Louis (1905-12)
3. Marie-Françoise (1906-94)
4. Robert (II)  (1909-74)
5. François (1913-39)
6. Jeanne-Isabelle (1916-49)
7. Alicia (1917-    )
8. Marie-Christine (1925-   )

From all the 8 only Pss. Alice got married (with Infante D.Alfonso, Duke of Calabria) and had descendants.

What happened with the others ? Jeanne was shot in a hunting accident in Spain when she was 33 and single.
They were descendants of duke Robert's first marriage to Maria Pia of TSicilies and many of their sons were
mentally handicapped.
Did it pass to the next generation ?

Infanta Alicia appears a lot in spanish magazines and looks quite normal.
I've seen a picture of Pss. Maria-Cristina at the wedding of one of her great-nieces and (apart being on a wheel-chair - and she was almost 80 y.old) there seemed nothing wrong with her.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 07:18:43 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/SixtusHedwig.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 07:20:11 AM
Wedding picture of Prince Sixtus and Princess Hedwig of Bourbon-Parma!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: McAdam on February 17, 2006, 09:02:27 PM
Quote
Wedding picture of Prince Sixtus and Princess Hedwig of Bourbon-Parma!


What an excellent picture - I've never seen this one before, Marc.  I'll make an attempt at identifying the people in this picture:

front row:  Hedwige de la Rochefoucauld (bride), Prince Sixte (groom), Duchess of Parma

back row:  Don Jaime, Duke of Madrid (cousin of Sixte), bride's mother (nee Princess Louise Radziwill), bride's father (Duke of Doudeauville).

Is Hedwige wearing the famous Bourbon-Parme tiara that she received for her wedding?  It's hard to tell in this photo.  
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 17, 2006, 09:29:04 PM
Please forgive me, I'm not very up on these families but am very interested in this one.  

What family is Hedwig from?  
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: McAdam on February 18, 2006, 07:50:01 PM
Hedwig is from the prominent de la Rouchefoucauld family, a French ducal family with numerous branches.  Hedwig's father was Armand de la Rochefoucauld, 5th Duke of Doudeauville.  Hedwig's family was very rich and she brought a large dowry to the marriage, undoubtedly part of the attraction to Prince Sixte in marrying her, given he was not overly well off himself.  Hedwig ultimately inherited the Chateau de Bonnetable, a beautiful castle near Sarthre.  There are numerous photos of Bonnetable on the Internet - it's now owned by their daughter Isabelle.  Interestingly, Isabelle married a distant de la Rochefoucauld cousin, Roger de la Rochefoucauld of the Estissac branch.  In turn one of their sons married yet another de la Rochefoucauld cousin from a different ducal line of the family.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on March 01, 2006, 03:30:11 PM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/Sixtus.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on March 01, 2006, 03:31:06 PM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/Sixtus2.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on March 01, 2006, 03:32:12 PM
Two more pictures of Sixtus and Hedwig!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on October 21, 2006, 05:20:21 AM
Dear members,

Has anybody got a picture of Prince Sixtus of Bourbon Parma´s wife?

Her name was Hedwig and she as born as a Rouchefoucauld, unfortunately I have never seen her picture.

Is there a wedding picture of Zitas famous brother Sixtus and her, or something?

The couple had one daughter, of whome I don´t know, if she is still alive, because she is over eighty.

I would be thankful for any help or link
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on October 21, 2006, 08:17:05 AM
I think these are well-known pictures.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/PrinceSixto_wedding.jpg)



Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on October 21, 2006, 10:16:58 AM
I recognize Duchess D. Maria Antónia sitted next to Sixte.
I suppose the couple behind the bride would be her parents.
Who is the man standing between Sixte and D. Maria Antónia ?

Do you have any photos of the couple's daughter Isabelle ?
A few years ago her name was linked to some dubious economic affairs, don't remember exactly what.
And she married her cousin Roger Count de la Rochefoucauld
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on October 21, 2006, 11:16:45 AM
Svetabel, thanks very very much! That´s wonderfu, coming home this evening and finding the pictures!
Where did you get them? They must be from a book about royalty, aren´t they?
It´s the fist time for me to see them! I was always looking with google and looking...and 
One question: Do you have the one with Sixtus and his wife in a bigger format or do you know where to find them bigger?
I would be grateful.

To José: That´s interesting with the affair...I knew about Isabelle and her marriage to Roger, there are several children from the marriage, but I didn´t know about any economical affair...Was it in the press?
It´s strange, because as I remember Isabelle was born in 1922 (or something very similar), so she must already been quite old, when that affair was. What was it about? Do you remember?
Hedwige, her mother interests me, because she is a greatgranddaughter of Francois Blanc and Marie Hensel, two very famous figures in local history of my hometown, and I am going to write about them. Hedwige descends from their daughter Louise, who married a Prince Radziwill, whereas my favourite figure Marie Bonaparte, descends from Marie-Felix Blanc.

Has anyone picture about Hedwigs mother Louise? (I don´t think so...)

I only found one pic of young Isabelle:
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on October 21, 2006, 11:34:46 AM
Thanks, a pity that you don´t have them bigger and don´t remember, where you found them. Id you remember, please tell.

Here is Isabelle with the Rochefoucauld family, Roger is the one with the boy in his arms, the son of them, one other boy in the front row is another son of them, but I don´t have adult pictures of the boys.

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/laroche.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on October 22, 2006, 01:09:15 PM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/Sixtus2.jpg)

I think this is Carlos of Bourbon Two-Siciiles (widower of Infanta Mercedes and brother-in-law to Alfonso XIII) and his 2nd wife, Princess Louise of Orleans. They had this almost identical portrait in a Royalty Digest article and it was signed by the two--it was apparently for their wedding anniversary.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on October 22, 2006, 02:57:41 PM
Thanks, I always wondered why the man did not resemble Sixtus!- It was not him!

But the other picture with the wedding is definetely Sixtus, but where does this picture come from ? I would like to have a bigger version or any source... :)

Anyone an idea? :-\
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on October 30, 2006, 03:50:12 AM
Quote
Wedding picture of Prince Sixtus and Princess Hedwig of Bourbon-Parma!

What an excellent picture - I've never seen this one before, Marc.  I'll make an attempt at identifying the people in this picture:

front row:  Hedwige de la Rochefoucauld (bride), Prince Sixte (groom), Duchess of Parma

back row:  Don Jaime, Duke of Madrid (cousin of Sixte), bride's mother (nee Princess Louise Radziwill), bride's father (Duke of Doudeauville).

Is Hedwige wearing the famous Bourbon-Parme tiara that she received for her wedding?  It's hard to tell in this photo. 

Strange, because the page photos12 mentiones that the lady next to Sixtus isn´t the Duchess of Parma, but the Duchess of Doudeauville, which would mean the mother of Hedwig. But I fear the description at photos12 is not right. 
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on November 12, 2006, 10:11:49 AM

There is no Felix Blanc. François Blanc was the founder of the Casino and Société des Bains de Mer.
His younger daughter, Marie-Félix, married Pr. Roland Bonaparte and they had a daughter Pss. Marie Bonaparte, the friend of Sigmund Freud, who married Pr. George of Greece.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on November 16, 2006, 02:40:01 PM
José, Thanks very much for mentioning this wonderful genealogical site, there are all the relationships of the royals, I did not know so many ansistors of Marie Bonaparte and Hedwige de la Rochefaucauld...! Must be a wonderful site!
Thanks for answering the question about Francois Blanc, which was asked by TampaBay. I has overseen it...Francois Blanc is an interesting topic for me, as there are the connections to my hometown. Blanc firstly built the Casino here at Bad Homburg and then it was the example for Monte Carlo.
Can you tell me more about the mentioned Société des Bains de Mer? What is it exactly?
It´s funny, if one considers that at the beginning there were only two simple brothers Louis and Francois Blanc speculating at the stock market ....and the result of all they did was Monte Carlo at the End. It´s such a fascinating story, like a tale, Louis Blanc had a bad health an died quite early, but always assisted  his brother.... The really famous one was Francois B. There is a picture of him at the wall of our Casino and a statue of Marie Hensel in the park, but it´s very bad and does not resemble her. 
Has anyone got a better picture of Hedwige, this one, we sent here, seems a bit blurry.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on November 16, 2006, 03:33:23 PM

La Société des Bains de Mer is the holding that runs Monaco.
In the 60s Onassis tried to control it buy buying a large amount of shares. He would have full control of most of Monaco's economy which in these days relied mostly on the casino revenues.
Pr. Rainier was not amused of course and there was a "cold war" between the Prince and Onassis.
In the end, via a princely decree, Rainier decided to issue a large number of shares to raise the capital of the SBM and kept them for himself, thus gaining control over the society and, therefore, over his country.
I found this interview on the web:

http://www.twst.com/notes/articles/lqs089.html
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on November 17, 2006, 01:34:26 AM
Thanks for mentioning this interview. I will read it, when I have more time. I am still reading the book "der Zauberer von Monte Carlo und Bad Homburg" it´s quite interesting. Anybody knows this book. There the story is told 

Dear Danjel,

Thanks! I knew this picture. Do you have others of her or her mother or grandmother???
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on November 17, 2006, 06:24:07 AM

Do you maybe know, where the wedding picture of Sixtus and his wife can be found bigger?

It´s at Photos12, but very small, and not good to see. Any idea, where to find this or any other pic of Hedwig in a huger version?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eutropius on February 21, 2007, 08:08:45 PM
Was Prince Sixtus's marriage to Hedwige de La Rochefoucauld initially considered equal/dynastic by Duke Elias?  Or was concession granted later, like in the case of Prince Xavier's marriage?  The Almanach de Gotha from 1933 shows it to be dynastic, but I'm not sure if it's credible.... because it also shows Prince Xavier's marriage to Madeleine de Bourbon-Busset as being dynastic, which if I remember correctly, was only conceded much later by Duke Robert.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on May 26, 2007, 11:37:29 AM
I am looking for pictures of Infanta Alicia's siblings:
Pss.Elizabeth (1904-84)
Pr. Charles-Louis (1905-12)
Pss. Marie Françoise (1904-94)
Duke Robert (II) (1909-74)
Pr. François (1913-39)
Pss. Jeanne-Elizabeth (1916-49)
Pss. Marie-Christinne (1925-   )

What did Charles-Louis and François die of at such early age ?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on May 26, 2007, 06:12:58 PM
Robert II (photos from royaltyguide.nl)

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/bourbon/bbparma3/1909%20Robert-02.JPG)

Marie-Christine

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/bourbon/bbparma3/1925%20M.Christine.JPG)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on July 23, 2007, 05:24:04 PM
Elias Roberto Carlo Maria Pio Giuseppe was the 10th of 24 of Duke Robert's children (1880-1959); m.1903 Archdss Maria Anna of Austria (1882-1940)


1) Elisabetta (1904-1983)

2) Carlo (1905- 1912)

3) Maria Francesca (1906-1994)

4) Roberto II , Duke of Parma(1909-1974)

5) Francesco (1913-1939)

6) Giovanna [Jeanne] (1916-k.in a shooting accident at Toledana, Spain 1949)

7) Alice (b.1917); m.1936 Alfonso of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1901-1964)

8) Maria Cristina (b.1925)

Archduchess Maria Anna was the 2nd daughter of AD Friedrich (1856- 1936) and Princess Isabella of Croy (1856-1931). They married in 1878. Her father was one of the wealthiest of the Habsburgs.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on July 23, 2007, 05:32:48 PM
From wikipedia:

"Elias of Bourbon, Titular Duke of Parma (1880-1959) was the head of the Bourbon House of Parma.

His parents were the deposed Robert I, Duke of Parma and his first wife Maria Pia of the Two Sicilies, daughter of Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies.

Despite loss of his throne, Robert and his family enjoyed considerable wealth, traveling in a private train of more than a dozen cars among his castles at Schwarzau am Steinfeld near Vienna, Villa Pianore in northwest Italy, and the magnificent château de Chambord in France.

Less than four months after Duke Robert's death in 1907 the Grand Marshal of the Austrian court declared six of the children of his first marriage legally incompetent, at the behest of Duchess Maria Antonia, Robert's second wife and Elias' stepmother. Nonetheless, Robert's primary heir was Elias, Duke of Parma, 1880-1959), the youngest son of the first marriage and the only one of those sons to father children of his own. Elias also became the legal guardian of his six elder siblings. Although the eldest half-brothers, Sixte and Xavier, eventually sued their half-brother Elias to obtain a greater share of the ducal fortune, they lost in the French courts, leaving the issue of Robert's second marriage with modest prospects."
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on July 23, 2007, 05:35:14 PM
Elias

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/eliebourbonw.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/2b52_1eliasw.jpg)

Elias & Maria Anna

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/habs1951.jpg)

Maria Anna

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/PrincessMariaAnnaofParmaBourbon2w.jpg)

Maria Anna with some of her children

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/austria/2161310047w.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on July 23, 2007, 06:50:50 PM
The current head of the clan went through Elia's brother Prince Xavier. Xavier married Madeleine de Bourbon Busset. Madeleine was a member of the Bourbon-Busset family, a cadet branch of the House of Bourbon generally regarded as non-dynastic in France. The marriage to Madeleine was recognised as dynastic by the Carlist claimant to the throne of Spain, Alfonso Carlos, who was married to the sister of Xavier's mother, Infanta  Maria Neves of Portugal who had adopted Xaver as their heir. However, Elias - who was regent for their handicapped brother Enrico - did not recognise the marriage as dynastic regarding the succession to Parma. The reason was partially influenced by various political and family differences. During the 1920s and 1930s Elias and Xavier were on opposing sides of a family legal battle over the ownership of the Château de Chambord which had been confiscated by the French government on the basis that Elias was an enemy combatant, Elias having served in the Austrian army. Xavier had fought in the Belgian army (the queen of Belgium being his first cousin, her mother being Infanta Marie Jose of Portugal) and tried to get the government to at least turn the property over to him rather than losing it altogether. Elias had also recognised Alfonso XIII as constitutional king of Spain, in spite of the fact that his father Robert had supported the Carlist claimants and the bond that the younger Bourbon-Parmas (children of Infanta Maria Antonia) had to the Duke of San Jaime, Maria Neves's husband. Finally, in 1961 Elias' son Duke Robert II of Parma recognised the marriage between Xavier and Madeleine as dynastic regarding the succession to the ducal throne of Parma. Duke Robert II died in 1974 having never married and his younger brother, Francis, had also died a bachelor. Thus, Xavier's eldest son, Carlos Hugo (married Princess Irene of the Netherlands) is the current head of the family.   



Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Norbert on December 23, 2007, 08:06:15 PM
Interestingly Elias was the claiment to the throne of Navarre through his French grandmother. Odd none of this family ever claimed the Principality of Andorra?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Norbert on December 23, 2007, 08:21:34 PM
The issue of the second marriage didn't do too badly. Grand duchess of Luxembourg, Empress of Austria-Hungary, son-in-law of king of italy and prince Valdemar of Denmark?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eurohistory on December 29, 2007, 07:16:32 PM
A small correction...Prince Felix was created a Prince of Luxembourg...not a "Grand Duchess of Luxembourg." :-}

And yes the second set of children of Roberto I did fairly well (understatement!).


François Xavier = a Bourbon-Busset (with loads of property!)
Felix = The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg
Zita = Kaiser Karl of Austria, King of Hungary
René = a princess of Denmark
Luigi = a princess of Savoy
Gaetano = a princess of Thurn und Taxis
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Norbert on December 30, 2007, 07:02:54 AM
Goodness I was only saving typing space....obviuosly we all know Prince Felix married the Grand Duchess or we wouldn't be on this site.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Ilias_of_John on January 25, 2008, 03:47:34 AM
Its a shame he didnt spell his name with an I !
wink!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: beladona on March 12, 2008, 06:27:44 AM
Are there some good portraits of two wives of Roberto - Maria Pia and Maria Antonia?
I was searching for portrait of Maria Pia for a long time, but did not find any portrait of her as adult and mother of twelve children...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on March 13, 2008, 01:55:19 AM
Wedding picture of Robert and Maria Pia.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/parma1stwife.jpg)


Also I believe MarieCharlotte once had posted a picture of Maria Pia and her fisrt-born son...I wish I remembered in which thread...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: beladona on March 14, 2008, 05:04:39 PM
Svetabel, thanks for the picture of Maria Pia!
She looks strange...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on March 17, 2008, 06:11:33 AM
Svetabel, thanks for the picture of Maria Pia!
She looks strange...

Strange? IMO she just doesn't look pretty like her sisters.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on March 17, 2008, 06:13:21 AM
One more picture of Roberto and Maria Pia

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/DukeRoberto_1tspouse-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Norbert on March 19, 2008, 05:29:08 AM
Adelaide was a nun at St Cecilia's Benedictine Abbey on Isle of Wight for a time in 1896. I presume she returned to Solesmes on the outbreak of War?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on March 20, 2008, 04:56:16 PM
Adelaide was a nun at St Cecilia's Benedictine Abbey on Isle of Wight for a time in 1896. I presume she returned to Solesmes on the outbreak of War?

You are referring to titular Queen D.Adelaide, Duke Robert's mother-in-law, née Princess of Loewenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg.

With all her children married, in 1895 she joined the french benedictine convent of Saint Cecilia at Solesmes, as a novice Sister Adelaide de Bragança.
Two years later she took vows and became Mother Adelaide.
When religious institutions were prohibited in France, the convent moved to Ryde on the isle of Wight.
(D.Adelaide came from a very religious family; Her brother, the Prince of L-W-R also took vows in Germany after his wife's death)

In Ryde, she was visited by K.Edward VII and Q.Alexandra who, despite the close relation to D.Carlos, were curious to meet "the other Queen" of Portugal who had become a nun.

After the Regicide of 1908, Queen D.Adelaide wrote a letter of condolence to Q. D.Amélia who answered calling her "My dear Aunt".
The two Queens maintained correspondence until D.Adelaide's death in 1909.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 20, 2008, 05:24:30 PM
Wedding picture of Robert and Maria Pia.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/parma1stwife.jpg)

Also I believe MarieCharlotte once had posted a picture of Maria Pia and her fisrt-born son...I wish I remembered in which thread...

Thank you so much for this rare picture! Maria Pia was only 20 when she married, but she looks really old on this pic.

Did you think of this photo? It shows Maria Pia and her eleventh child Elie.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/mariapia_elie.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on March 21, 2008, 06:09:08 AM

Did you think of this photo? It shows Maria Pia and her eleventh child Elie.


Oh, yes, for some reason I thought that's a first-born.:)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: synnadene on March 21, 2008, 02:22:23 PM

How cute Elie is!! :-)) And Maria Pia is so tender on this picture...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Norbert on March 21, 2008, 03:42:22 PM
Hi Jose, actually I was referring to Zita's sister Adelaide but your explanation would explain why SHE went there.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on April 11, 2008, 08:52:47 AM
As the pics are all very small here...does anyone have a bigger or single picture of Hedwig? Why was she so rarely photographed???
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric VdV on April 12, 2008, 04:16:02 PM
As the pics are all very small here...does anyone have a bigger or single picture of Hedwig? Why was she so rarely photographed???
Princess Hedwige attended the wedding of Prince Leopold of Belgium and Princess Astrid of Sweden in Brussels in November 1926 and she is only pictured in a very rare photograph where she was not cut off on the wedding guests picture, sitting at the exrtreme left, wearing the huge tiara. She is sitting in front of Crown Prince Olav of Norway and sitting next to the sister of the bride, Princess Märtha of Sweden.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b215/EricVdV2006/HedwigeweddingLeopoldAstrid.jpg)

If my memories are right, I remember having seen the only picture I know of Princess Isabelle at the funeral of her aunt Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg in 1985, published in Point de Vue. Have to look it up.

Eric VdV
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: tecklenburg on April 21, 2008, 03:52:10 PM
hello

I know that pietro lucchesi-palli was a cousin of beatrice. together they have the same great-grandmother, Carolina di Borbone the former Duchesse de Berry. She had a son by her 2nd mariage with ettore lucchesi-palli.
Elias entered austrian army but I don't know which regiment. he was regent when his elder brother Henri became duke. The same with Joseph.
Sixte & Xavier served in belgian army, in artillery
Felix entered a regiment of austrian cavalry before becoming inspector general of luxemburg forces
 & president of luxemburg red cross
but i don't know about the youngest sons. Maybe someone konws?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 22, 2008, 03:28:13 AM
1) Elias (1880-1959) entered austrian dragoon regiment (which one ? I don't know...)
2) Renato (1894-1962) was captain of cavalry in the Austrian Army during the1st World War.He got the Iron Cross. He obtained the french nationality but he was refused when he wanted to enter the French Army in 1940 because he fought against France in 1914-1918. He was admitted in the Finnish Army.He went to the States and, then, succeeded to enter the First French Army, commanded by general de Lattre de Tassigny. He did all the campaign of Germany as captain  His name was:prince René de Bourbon-Parme.
3) Luigi (1899-1967). He married Maria di Savoia. He was arrested in Roma by Gestapo in 1943 and deported with his wife and his two sons (Guy and Remi) in the concentration camp of Sachsenhausen,then this of Garlitz.The family was deliverd by the G I's...
4) Gaetano (1905-1957). In 1936, he joined the Requetes, (carlist army) and fought with the nationalist forces against "the Reds".He entered the US Army during the 2d World War. He went ashore  in Normandie in 1944 and did the campaign of Germany with U S Army

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on April 22, 2008, 04:00:04 PM
Luigi ran  a farm in Mozambique with some of his brothers - Gaetano, I guess.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 23, 2008, 02:56:39 AM
Yes. After the war, the prince Luigi di Borbone Parma ran a cotton-plantation in Moçambique, portuguese territory at that time.
Later, he ran a farming-estate in south of France: "Le Mas Saint Remy", 841 boulevard des Princes, 06210 Mandelieu La Napoule, near Cannes.
The prince Luigi died there in 1967. His grave is in the cemetery of locality.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: tecklenburg on April 24, 2008, 11:04:09 AM
I got another question. It's about Duke of Parma's brother, Count of Bardi.
I already know that he married twice & unfortunatelly had no child. Poor man. Maybe was he godfather to some nephews, I hope so.
Did he take part to carlist wars too? Where did he live with his wives? What were his interests?
what about the duke of Parma? I think he was very pious man, a traditional patriarch, wasn't he? how did he rule this big family? It must have been funny sometimes...

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 25, 2008, 08:34:41 AM
Hello, Tecklenburg!

Yes, Enrico di Borbone Parma, count of Bardi took part to the third carlist war with his elder brother, Roberto. When he was 21 years old, Enrico joined the army of his brother-in-law, Don Carlos de Borbon, duke de Madrid, the carlist claimannt to the throne of Spain. Don Carlos had just launch the third carlist war against the 1st Republic. At that time, he ruled half of Spain! The count of Bardi led a cavalry charge where the future king Alfonso XII was just missed falling to the Carlists. Finally, Alfonso was the winner in 1876 through the General Campos Martinez's "pronunciamiento"..
In 1873, Enrico married Luisa di Borbone delle Due Sicilie who died 9 months later in Pau (France) where was installed an hospital for carlist soldiers. She was the sister of the first duchess of Parma, Maria Pia. In 1874, october the 15th,  Enrico married  Aldegonde de Bragança, infanta of Portugal. With his second wife, he travelled in Far East: Siam, Java, China, mainly Japan. He collected more than 30 000 curios: side-arms (XII -XIX c), paintings, vases porcelains, folding-sreen...He gathered one the most important collection of Japan art in Italy. He set it down in the Palazzo Vendramin Calergi in Venice, inherited from his grandmother, the duchess of Berry, and in the Palazzo Giiustiniani Lolin, inherited from his mother, Louise Marie de France, duchess dowager of Parma. (Almost all the Bourbons in exile had got a Palazzo in Venice: the count of Chambord  in Palazzo Cavalli, don Carlos, in Palazzo Loredan, campo San Vio).
The count of Bardi lived in Venice but also in Seebenstein (Austia) at Miguel II's, his second father-in law.He died childless in 1905, two years before his elder brother, Roberto. He made his collection over the Italian State .
Nowadays, it can be found on the second floor of Ca' d'Oro, on the Gran Canale.  Upstairs, you can see a Enrico in Samourai's funny picture !!!

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 20, 2008, 04:09:27 AM
Wife of Elias, Maria Anna of Austria-Teschen, daughter of Archduke Friedrich and Isabella of Croy:


(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/KOS10189D.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/KOS10183D.jpg)



father of Maria Anna as young man with his sister, later wife of Alfonso XII and mother of Alfonso XIII of Spain:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/GrovTante.jpg)


Mother Isabella of Croy:


As young woman:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/Pf3948B1.jpg)


later:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/Pf3948D5.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/3300901.jpg)

I have read that she was a huge fan of gipsy music, somewhere it fits her dark look...funny, I think she was beautiful, even when a bit stout in later years....She looks elegant here...


Maria Anna and her husband Elias:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/NB531117B.jpg)


Maria Anna and her children:

(A bit bigger version)


(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/habs195-5.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/habs195-6.jpg)


Maria Anna with daughter Elisabeth:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/withdaughter.jpg)


daughter Maria Franziska of Bourbon Parma:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/Franz.jpg)


I wished there were (single) cards like this also about the other children, like the early deceased Carlo (or Charles) and the others.

If anybody finds other photos pics of the children, please post them here and mention it!

Thanks and enjoy looking.... :)


Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2008, 07:29:52 AM
Geat images...interesting about the gipsy music :-)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 20, 2008, 09:16:57 AM
I'm not sure, if this is right, but I read that she was socially very engaged, supported the work of Hungarian women and also had a passion especially for music of the "Roma" ...Somewhere she had a certain slavish-mediterranean look herself, so..... ;D ;D

There is a wonderful book about the family of Archduke Friedrich, called "Ein Fotoalbum des Hauses Habsburg", but unfortuntaly I do only have  it in Hungarian, so I only can see the pictures,, but do not understand the text...I ordered it some time ago and thought, it's a translation...but no... :(
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2008, 09:28:06 AM
True about her looks...well,most of her ancestors were German/Austrian and French,so no Slavic blood for centuries...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 20, 2008, 11:12:27 AM
Yes, it's strange, but somewhere she has that flair...I have read the Croy are an old noble family originally from the Picardie...so North of France, not very exotic ::) Is that true about the background?

I think the daughters of Maria Anna are mostly Bourbon-Parma in look....

Does anyone know, if this was happy marriage with Archduchess Maria Anna and Elias? Was it a love marriage or out of other reasons???
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on July 20, 2008, 11:20:06 PM
Yes,she has descended from various families of the German/Austrian side such as:Salm-Salm,Salm-Kyrburg,Sternberg-Manderscheid,Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rochefort,Starhemberg,Trauttmansdorff-Weinsberg,Königsegg-Rothenfels,Hohenzollern-Hechingen,Fürstenberg,von der Marck etc. and from the French side:Croy and Ligne(French families-at that time they were already part of German countries),Rochechouart de Mortemart,d'Harcourt,Hornes etc.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 21, 2008, 06:57:38 AM
That's interesting about the background....but do you know anything about if it was a happy marriage with Elias and Maria Anna?
I don't know further details, but liked the pictures. It was also interesting to me, because I know a bit personally the daughters of Archduke Albrecht, only brother of Maria Anna....
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on July 21, 2008, 12:27:23 PM
Were the children of Duke Elias normal, bearing in mind the condition that ran in the family with all those of his handicapped siblings.
The problem might have been with their mother as the children from Duke Robert's second marriage were all normal, apart from a deaf princess.

I am asking because, except for Pss. Alice, Ducess of Calabria, neither got married or had a family.

Any info on Duke Robert II ?

I suppose that Pss. Jeanne-Elisabeth should be "normal" or she would not be invited to a hunting party.
I've seen pictures of Pss. Marie-Christinne and nothing seemed wrong with her...

Never saw any pics of Isabelle, Charles-Louis, Jeanne-Françoise or François.

If someone has them, please post them.
Thanks in advance

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 21, 2008, 02:06:31 PM
I'm also searching for some more pics on the children of the couple. Could you tell, where you found the pictures on Jeanne-Elisabeth and Marie-Christine?

I do not know, if anyone was handicapped??

I post here some I have found:


Their father Elias as young man:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/elie_0_di_borbone.jpg)


Alice (as we know, she was married and still has many descendants today...)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/alice_1_di_borbone.jpg)


Marie Christine (has anyone other pictures of her???)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/marie_christine_5_di_borbone.jpg)


Marie (?) Still have to look, which of the daughters it is...

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/marie_0_di_borbone.jpg)

Ok, she looks a bit strange here and sits in a wheelchair....but well...she's old here...so I don't know, if she was handicapped or if it was just because of her age or anything....

And here Robert (looks quite normal...seems to be a pic from the sixties(?) after the glasses, I would say....

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/robert_2_di_borbone.jpg)

Does anyone have infos on his life...?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 28, 2008, 01:27:08 AM
Thank you for this picture! It's a pity, but all pictures that I have found are still very small, that the face is hardly to see. Please, if anybody finds another bigger picture of the couple or of Hedwig, please send a link.
By the way, it was just told me by a grandson of Isabella that Isabella, daughter of Sixtus and Hedwig, is still alive. Interesting! All the Bourbons seem to live quite long. A pity that he did not tell me much more about her, but he said not be close to her....perhaps a pity....

This is the only Isabella picture I know. Are there more recent ones??

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/192220Isabella-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on July 28, 2008, 07:34:30 AM
I have a photo of the lady on the wheelchair listed as Pss. Marie-Christinne, so the very same as the lady in blue.

I've never seen that photo before,

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 28, 2008, 04:36:17 PM
How strange...on the genealogical site, where I found them both photos were shown as different ladies....very strange, I would not have thought they are the same. They look very differently here, maybe the same in different times? Seems so!

Thank you for the correction!!!

How is your photo of Marie-Christine? Is it the same as the one here or a bit different? Can you post it?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on July 28, 2008, 06:04:11 PM
My photo is basically the same caption of yours only a bit larger.
One can see the wheelchair and I think it was taken at some weddinh.
There are two ladies in blue one at each side, but unfortunately the phtographer "cut" their heads.

From which site did you get your pics ?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 29, 2008, 09:21:30 AM
If you go on the thread on the Habsburgs you will find a link to a genealogical site with pictures under the topic "Habsburg page"

There are the pictures and the dates, if you look a bit.

The Princess in the wheelchair  and the flower dress is called Marie there, but in fact it's Marie Franziska, of whom I posted a child picture here born in 1906, the other Princess in the blue dress shall be Marie Christine, born 1925. So I think they are two different ladies, not one....

Could you send the bigger version of the Marie Christine image...? It would be great....
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on July 29, 2008, 11:50:57 AM
Duchess Alice of Calabria (nee Bourbon-Parma) with her spouse

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/DukeAlfonsoofCalabria_spouse.jpg)

And here's the wedding of Alice and her spouse Alfonso in 1938.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/DukeAlfonsoofCalabria_wedding_1938.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 29, 2008, 12:42:36 PM
Thank you!!!!

I knew the first picture...but not that clear....this is wonderful!

Do you also have pictures of the other children? Especially the sisters of Alice? I think it's hard to find, only the ones I posted....

Do you know, why the others did not marry?

At least I did not find that they were married. Why not? Because often they became very old. Why didn't they marry??
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on July 29, 2008, 01:47:06 PM


Do you also have pictures of the other children? Especially the sisters of Alice? I think it's hard to find, only the ones I posted....



Alas,only pictures of her siblings as children - you definitely know the photos.

Till now I've not found any info on why the other siblings were unmarried...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on July 30, 2008, 03:25:46 AM
I only have seen the photo with Archduchess Maria Anna and all of her children together.

Do you mean that you only have that picture or also single postcards of the children??

I'm still looking for single postcards of them, but only found one of Princess Maria Franziska...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on August 08, 2008, 08:28:21 AM
I've just purchased this nice postcard, which shows the children of Elias and Maria Anna around the year 1910.


(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/GrennderungFile0177.jpg)


I wonder, who they are. The eldest must be Elisabeth, she has defintely her mother's eyes, and those of Archduke Friedrich :), the second girl must be Maria Franziska, but about the boy I have doubts. I thought that maybe the little Carlo (or Charles), 1905-1012, but he does rather look younger than Franziska, who was born one year later, but Robert, second son, was born in 1909 and therefore must be much younger than here on the picture...Has anyone an idea?
However this card is very cute, I think.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Princess Susan on August 09, 2008, 04:08:27 AM
The boy must be definitely Carlo. It is a pity, that he died of poliomyelitis when he was only 7. :(

I wonder why except Alice nobody of Elias and Maria Anna's children was married.
Does anybody have any idea?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on August 11, 2008, 09:08:03 AM
Thank you for the comment. I also think this is Carlo, even when he looks to me rather younger than his sister Maria Franziska.
Yes, the question was already asked... Until now nobody knows, why they did not marry,  even when they become quite old. I have seen that Maria Christine still lives. Could be interesting to write to her :)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: trentk80 on August 11, 2008, 11:00:44 AM
I remember reading that Alfonso, Duke of Calabria, was originally supposed to marry one of Alice's elder sisters (I don't remember which one though) but, when he met Alice, he liked her so much that he decided to marry her instead of her sister.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric VdV on August 11, 2008, 03:39:56 PM
...
Marie (?) Still have to look, which of the daughters it is...

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/marie_0_di_borbone.jpg)

Ok, she looks a bit strange here and sits in a wheelchair....but well...she's old here...so I don't know, if she was handicapped or if it was just because of her age or anything....
...
I remember this picture taken at the wedding of Princess Cristina of Bourbon-Two Sicilies on 15 July 1994 and the person at that time was idenfied as a sister of Princess Alice, paternal grandmother of the bride. This photo is part of the family posing picture. So it must be the youngest sister Princess Maria Christina of Bourbon-Parma, as Princess Maria Francesca has died a few months before, on 20 Februay 1994.

Eric VdV
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: britt.25 on August 12, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Don't you think this is Maria Francesca? All the others died before apart from Marie Christine and that's definetely not her. I think this must be Maria Francesca...not true? Or is this a completely other family member? Strange!

Do you know, where the full picture is to see, where this was taken as part out of it?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric VdV on August 18, 2008, 05:22:36 PM
Here is the full picture from the wedding of Princess Cristina of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, taken on 15 July 1994. Now I see Princess Maria Cristina is also in it, cut out of this picture and posted in some of the previous messages: she is wearing blue, standing at the right of Queen Sofia of Spain.
The caption is clear, mentioning both Princess Françoise (sic) and Princess Christine (sic) of Bourbon-Parma.

Most of the guests are easy to recognise, so it must be the sisters of Princess Alice.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b215/EricVdV2006/CristinaBourbon-TwoSicilies.jpg)

Next to right: couple (must be the parents of the groom); Countess of Paris (maternal grandmother of the bride); Queen Sofia of Spain; Princess Maria Cristina of Bourbon-Parma; groom and bride; Infante Alice, née Princess of Bourbon-Parma (paternal grandmother of the bride); King Juan Carlos of Spain with in front of him Princess Maria Francesca of Bourbon-Parma in wheel chair; Princess Anne and Infante Carlo (parents of the bride); two girls (probably sisters of the groom)
Behind Queen Sofia of Spain: her daughters Infanta Elena of Spain and Infanta Cristina of Spain; Prince Pedro of Bourbon-Two Sicilies; Princess Victoria of Bourbon-TS; Princess Inès of Bourbon-TS; Infante Felipe of Spain; Princess Maria of Bourbon-TS; hidden lady behind King Juan Carlos.

I am confused now, as the sources ("Le Petit Gotha"; "Online Gotha of Paul Theroff") I've found, give all as death date for Princess Maria Francesca 20 February 1994, so almost five months before this actual wedding. The other sisters died before her, as the last one before her was Princess Elisabetta, who died in 1983.

Eric VdV
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: beladona on August 26, 2008, 02:04:31 AM
...In 1873, Enrico married Luisa di Borbone delle Due Sicilie who died 9 months later in Pau (France) where was installed an hospital for carlist soldiers...

REMI, don´t you know if Enricos first wife Luisa di Borbone delle Due Sicilie died in childbirth? (these 9 months later...)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on August 26, 2008, 11:15:43 AM
...In 1873, Enrico married Luisa di Borbone delle Due Sicilie who died 9 months later in Pau (France) where was installed an hospital for carlist soldiers...

REMI, don´t you know if Enricos first wife Luisa di Borbone delle Due Sicilie died in childbirth? (these 9 months later...)

What I can say is that the first countess of Bardi died of tuberculosis in Pau (France), a disease prevalent at that time which affected all the classes of society.To my knowledge, no historian has talked about "death in childbirth". Luisa was very pretty.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: beladona on August 26, 2008, 02:41:53 PM
Yes, Luisa was pretty, like her sisters.
She died of tuberculosis? Only three years after her elder sister Maria Annunciata (married to Archduke Karl Ludwig), who died of tuberculosis too? Terrible disease...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 22, 2008, 09:31:14 AM
I have to confess that I haven't seen pictures of Maria Luisa as an adult yet. Even the photo archives in Vienna don't have pictures of her!

Here I have some pictures of Maria Luisa as a child:

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/ferdinand_toechter01.jpg)

Maria Immaculata, Maria Pia, Maria Luisa, Marie in Bavaria, Maria Annunziata

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/annunziata_schwestern01-1.jpg)

Maria Luisa (in the front) with her sisters

In my opinion Ferdinando II.'s daughters looked absolutely different. Maria Annunziata was tall, thin, had a nice face, but chiselled features like her bige nose. Maria Immaculata was quite small (her nickname was "Petite") and considered to be a real beauty - although she had a child-like face and was far from being beautiful in her early twenties. Maria Pia became quite fat (maybe because of her 12 pregnancies) and had a plain, meaningless face. Since I haven't seen pictures of Maria Luisa as an adult, I can't see what she looked like. Maybe she resembled her sister Maria Immaculata? As a child she looked really cute and that's why I can't imagine that she became ugly just like Maria Pia.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on October 22, 2008, 12:50:06 PM
In november 1873, Luisa married Count of Bardi at her brother's in Cannes (France). She followed his husband to the spanish border, in Pau (France). In Spain, Bardi fought in the army of his brother-in-law, don Carlos, while her wife Luisa helped  her sister-in-law, Margarita of Borbon-Parma, "carlist Queen of Spain" who looked after the carlist soldiers. She lived with herrma till her death (August 3 1874).Many pictures were  taken during this war.Maybe some of them with Margarita and Luisa still exist in Pau There is also the pictures taken in Cannes during the marriage???

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on October 22, 2008, 02:14:24 PM
Maybe the Bourbon Parma archives have pictures of Countess of Bardi?  Are these archives available? I think a part of them were available recently for a biography of the Count of Chambord. It would be interested to find pictures of her wedding in Cannes.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on October 22, 2008, 02:39:48 PM
The Borbon-Parma archives (Archivo Borbonico) are available in Lucca (Italy).

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on October 24, 2008, 07:36:10 AM
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/c4cdc4da.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on October 27, 2008, 07:05:37 AM
That's Maria Immaculata in the end of 1860s years.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on October 27, 2008, 12:23:23 PM
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/5a27f9e1.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Agneschen on April 01, 2009, 09:18:50 AM
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/LuisaBardi1.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/LuisaBardi2.jpg)

I recently found the 2nd of these 2 pics misindentified (at least according to me) as one ofEmpress Elisabeth of Austria's sisters. Do you think she could be Luisa Bardi ? (that is if we agree that the woman on the first pic is Luisa Bardi)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on April 01, 2009, 11:24:44 AM
What a lovely picture  Agneschen! Thanks for posting it. I looks to me it is the same woman, Luisa of Bardi. It is for sure not a sister of Empress Elisabeth.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 01, 2009, 12:56:23 PM
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/1855MLouise-02.jpg)

Many thanks, Agneschen for posting this very interesting picture. I am very happy to se it. I think also she might be Maria Immacolata LUISA di Borbone of Two Sicilie, Count of Bardi's first spouse. (1855-1874)
Here above a pic of Luisa younger, already posted...

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: beladona on April 01, 2009, 03:01:21 PM
Nice pictures, REMI and Agneschen, thanks for posting!
But I have another question: Are there any pictures of Beatrice (1879-1946), one of daughters of Roberto of Parma from his first marriage with Maria Pia? She was one of three healthy children from this marriage and she was married with Count (?) Luchesi-Palli.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 01, 2009, 04:34:51 PM
But I have another question: Are there any pictures of Beatrice (1879-1946), one of daughters of Roberto of Parma from his first marriage with Maria Pia? She was one of three healthy children from this marriage and she was married with Count (?) Luchesi-Palli.

Beatrice as a child

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/beatrice.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 01, 2009, 04:40:56 PM
Nice pictures, REMI and Agneschen, thanks for posting!
But I have another question: Are there any pictures of Beatrice (1879-1946), one of daughters of Roberto of Parma from his first marriage with Maria Pia? She was one of three healthy children from this marriage and she was married with Count (?) Luchesi-Palli.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/BeatixdeBourbon-Parme.jpg)

Beatrice of Borbone Parma (1879-1946) in 1894 in Schwarzau at the age of 15 years. She married Count Pietro Lucchesi Palli in 1906
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 01, 2009, 04:54:13 PM
REMI, I'm sure you know that the little picture of Beatrice is part of a wonderful family group. It would be great to know which face belongs to which name. Are you able to identify all family members - I guess I'm not.

Here it is:

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/fam01-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 01, 2009, 04:55:11 PM
Here I have another family group picture:

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/parma_fam01.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 01, 2009, 05:21:27 PM
REMI, I'm sure you know that the little picture of Beatrice is part of a wonderful family group. It would be great to know which face belongs to which name. Are you able to identify all family members - I guess I'm not.

Here it is:

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/fam01-1.jpg)


Yes, Marie Charlotte...First row, from left to right: Sixte (Sisto) with his sister Adélaïde; Maria Immacolata; Maria-Luisa of Bulgaria with his son Boris; Zita, seated on a little chair;duchess Maria-Antonia  with his Felix (future prince of Luxemburg): Xavier (Saverio ou Javier); Luisa; Maria Pia;Franciska.
Second row:Beatrice; Duke Roberto of Parma, in uniform of Bulgarian colonel; Giuseppe 1st (Josef),  duke of Parma in 1939; Enrico 1st (Heinrich), duke of Parma in 1907; Elias 1st (Elie) duke of Parma in 1950; Maria-Teresa;
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 01, 2009, 05:26:15 PM
Thanks a lot. You are very kind. I have to write the names down and keep this sheet of paper in my Bourbon-Parma book. :-)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 02, 2009, 03:58:51 AM
Thanks a lot. You are very kind. I have to write the names down and keep this sheet of paper in my Bourbon-Parma book. :-)

First of all, thank you very much for the pic of Beatrice, child....

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/Sanstitre.jpg)

Marie, I have tried to identify the 20 persons on this other pic taken in 1906.

1.Isabella (1898-1984)
2.Duke Roberto of Parma (1848-1907), a year before his death...
3.Luigi (1899-1967)
4.Gaetano (1905-1958)
5.Duchess Maria Antonia (1862-1959)
6. Renato (1894-1962)
7. Immacolata (1874-1914)
8.Maria Antonia (1895-1977) " Mother Maria Antonia", Benedictine in Solesmes, France.
9.Franciska, "Cicca" (1890-1978) "Mother Scholastique, Benedictine in Solesmes.
10.Pia (1877-1915).
11.Luisa (1872-1943)
12.Enrichetta (1903-1987)
13.Adelaïde 1885-1959, "Mother Maria Benedicte", Prioress of the Sainte Cécile Convent of Solesmes ,a year before her departure to Santa Cecilia Convent in Ryde (Wight Island).
14.Maria Teresa (1876-1959).
15. Giuseppe 1st (1875-1950)
16. Saverio (1889-1977), future Javier "king of the Carlists...
17.Enrico 1st (1873-1939).
18. Sisto (1886-1934).
19. ZITA (1892-1989)
20. Felice (FELIX) (1893-1970).

We have 18 children of Duke Roberto
Are missing 6 others: Maria Luisa, dead in Sofia in 1899; Ferdinando, Anastasia and Augusto, dead in infancy; Elias, married in Viena; and Beatrice, just married with Count Pietro Lucchesi Palli, in honey moon...

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on April 02, 2009, 06:37:24 AM
Where was taken this picture? Villa Pianore?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 03, 2009, 04:17:05 AM
Where was taken this picture? Villa Pianore?

Paola,the two pics we were talking about two days ago were taken in Schwarzau in 1894 and 1906.
In Italy, the name of the estate is: la villa delle Pianore or in english the villa of the Pianore.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on April 03, 2009, 05:49:51 AM
Thanks REMI for telling the right name of the villa :) I would like someday to visit villa of the Pianore. Is  it private property of the Bourbons Parma? And do you know if the other property of this family - Villa Borbone, Tenuta Reale, Viareggio -  is open to public?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 04, 2009, 04:00:17 AM
Thanks REMI for telling the right name of the villa :) I would like someday to visit villa of the Pianore. Is  it private property of the Bourbons Parma? And do you know if the other property of this family - Villa Borbone, Tenuta Reale, Viareggio -  is open to public?

1)The Villa of the Pianore was sold in 1950  after the death of don Giuseppe 1st , duke of Parma...only in name...The estate belongs now to "Istituto Cavanis", a religious order, which has created there an upper school.In 1964, a new modern building was built...It is pity. But the chapel of duchess Maria Teresa of Savoy, Charles II Louis' s wife does still exist.

2)A Viareggio, the Tenuta reale or Villa Borbone, via dei Tigli, is a communal property nowadays.It has been restored cleverly. Exhibitions and shows take place there.The chapel was restored too in 2006.There,  many members of the two families Borbone and Lorena-Absburgo of Toscana are buried The chapel can be visited on request.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 04, 2009, 07:47:04 AM
Here are two photos taken by myself on april 2005. This is the Pianore's portal of entry. It has not changed since 1893...

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/LesPianore.jpg)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/LesPianore2.jpg)

As we can see, the wrought-iron gate bears Roberto 1st, duke of Parma 's monogram: R

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 04, 2009, 07:58:40 AM
....As we can see also, everywhere there are "fleurs-de-lis", the Arms of France...Don't forget that Roberto is a Bourbon et Count of Chambord 's nephew.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Ricky on April 05, 2009, 12:23:35 PM
As a newcome to this thread, I a bit late posting, but I would just like to comment on two points made by Remi.

1) While the official archive of the Bourbon-Parma family may still be in Lucca, the private archive was removed some years ago and its present whereabout are unknown. This was pointed out by Luisa Trebiliani in her "Studi Storici Lucchesi" (1992) on page 36: "si ignora la sorte dell'archivio privato dei Borboni, che per un certo periodo sembra sia stato conservato in una villa della campagne lucchese". This makes it totally impossible to carry out detailed research on the private life of the family.

2) Again, while by far the largest part of Enrico, conte de Bardi's collection is still in Venice, with perhaps a small part in the University of Padua, I believe that the Mussolini government returned a number of items to Japan in the years before WWII. None of this seems to have corresponded to Enrico's wishes. Following his death in 1906, Ca' Vendramin reverted to the Lucchesi Palli family, one of whose forebears had been the second husband of Carolina, Princess of Bourbon Two Sicilies and Duchess de Berry, the original owner of the palace, who had sold it to Enrico sometime in the 1860's. Enrico's widow seems to have wanted the entire collection removed to Schloss Brunsee in the Steiermark, which had become the Austrian home of the Lucchesi Palli, but WWI intervened and it was instead seized as a spoil of war by the Italian government at the end of hostilities, perhaps because Austria was regarded as an enemy nation. Whether any part of the collection reached Brunsee between Enrico's death and the outbreak of WWI is by no means clear, but Brunsee seems to have belonged to the Lucchesi Palli until at least the 1950's.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on April 06, 2009, 02:15:04 AM
Would be interesting to know who remove the private archives of the Bourbon Parma and where they are nowadays.

Where in Venice is the Bardi's collection? And in what consists this collection?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 06, 2009, 08:39:48 AM

Where in Venice is the Bardi's collection? And in what consists this collection?

Count of Bardi's collection composes the Museum of Oriental  Art of Venice which is in Ca' Pesaro sul Grande Canale, near Rialto Bridge. This collection, one of the most important collection of Japanese art in Italy, gathers  very many cold steels, arms and armours, lances, hallberds, paintings on silk, vases etc...at the second floor of this marvellous palace. Here's a amazing pic of Enrico di Borbone Parma, count of Bardi as an oriental warrior...

REMI

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/HenrideBourbonParmecomtedeBardi.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on April 06, 2009, 09:22:59 AM
Ricky, could you help us to solve this problem...
The Archivio di Stato of Lucca keeps the personal and political diary of Count of Chambord, "Le journal de Monseigneur", written between  January the 9th 1852 and November the 30th 1881. This is not the original but a copy made by a Jesuit, Father Eugène Marquigny at the request of Countess of Chambord. The original should be destroyed.Marquigny died in 1886 without having had the time
to complete his work. Missing the years: 1857,1858,1859,1867,1868,and 1879.
Now, a french journalist is claiming to have found again the original.He must publish it soon...
According to him, the original was not destroyed and would have taken a strange way, a little ...crooked. The  journalist says he had received it from someone who would have purchased from a second-hand bookseller("Bouquinist" in french) through several intermediaries from prince Sixtus Henry of Bourbon-Parma???
What about?

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on April 06, 2009, 10:55:51 AM
Ricky, could you help us to solve this problem...
The Archivio di Stato of Lucca keeps the personal and political diary of Count of Chambord, "Le journal de Monseigneur", written between  January the 9th 1852 and November the 30th 1881. This is not the original but a copy made by a Jesuit, Father Eugène Marquigny at the request of Countess of Chambord. The original should be destroyed.Marquigny died in 1886 without having had the time
to complete his work. Missing the years: 1857,1858,1859,1867,1868,and 1879.
Now, a french journalist is claiming to have found again the original.He must publish it soon...
According to him, the original was not destroyed and would have taken a strange way, a little ...crooked. The  journalist says he had received it from someone who would have purchased from a second-hand bookseller("Bouquinist" in french) through several intermediaries from prince Sixtus Henry of Bourbon-Parma???
What about?

REMI

Interesting this claiming. Will this journalist write a book? Do you known when? I read "Le comte de Chambord : Dernier roi de France" by Daniel de Montplaisir. It was based in his private papers , but maybe  like you said, it is the copy of the original  made at the request of the Countess of Chambord. Never we know if all  or  only a part was copied. Maybe the Countess didn't  that all was known??
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Ricky on April 11, 2009, 09:42:33 AM
Remi

This is the first I have heard of the original ms of the comte de Chambord's diary surviving intact. If ever you hear more about it, please let us all know.

On a not unrelated topic, have you any idea what became of the two castles that Carlo Lodovico owned in Saxony, Weisstrop and Uchendorff, which he apparently inherited from the come de Chambord's sister, who was married to Maximilian of Saxony ?

Ricky
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on April 11, 2009, 02:03:40 PM
which he apparently inherited from the come de Chambord's sister, who was married to Maximilian of Saxony ?

Ricky

The sister of the Comte de Chambord, Princess Louise-Marie Therese, was married to Charles III of Parma no to Prince Maximilian of Saxony who was married to firstly Princess Caroline of Parma (1770-1804) and then to the neice of Caroline, Princess Luise of Parma (1802-1857).
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on June 14, 2009, 07:09:42 AM
Remi

This is the first I have heard of the original ms of the comte de Chambord's diary surviving intact. If ever you hear more about it, please let us all know.

Ricky




The diaries will be published next week. "Journal du Comte de Chambord" by Philippe Delorme.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Paola on June 14, 2009, 07:15:08 AM
1)The Villa of the Pianore was sold in 1950  after the death of don Giuseppe 1st , duke of Parma...only in name...The estate belongs now to "Istituto Cavanis", a religious order, which has created there an upper school.In 1964, a new modern building was built...It is pity. But the chapel of duchess Maria Teresa of Savoy, Charles II Louis' s wife does still exist.

2)A Viareggio, the Tenuta reale or Villa Borbone, via dei Tigli, is a communal property nowadays.It has been restored cleverly. Exhibitions and shows take place there.The chapel was restored too in 2006.There,  many members of the two families Borbone and Lorena-Absburgo of Toscana are buried The chapel can be visited on request.

REMI


To whom should one ask the request to visit the chapel with the crypt of the Bourbons? And is the villa open daily?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eurohistory on June 17, 2009, 11:06:38 AM
This is the telephone...

Tel: 0584 9661 (Comune di Viareggio - ufficio cultura)
Indirizzo: Viale dei Tigli, Viareggio

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: frohsdorf on July 20, 2009, 10:06:29 PM
It's been a few years since I participated in this forum.  It's been very interesting reading all of the posts pertaining to the Bourbon-Parma family and the Comte de Chambord.  Some of the information is misleading, however.  I will be in Viareggio and Lucca this fall to examine the remaining papers of the Comte de Chambord at the State Archives.  They were donated to the City in 1963 by the eldest daughter of Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo.  Many of his papers were burned at his death in 1883;  Don Jaime de Bourbon inherited many interesting items and had everything at Schloss Frohsdord inventoried in 1910.  Many valuable items and papers were given to an acquaintance, Viscount Canson, just before WWI (including the handwritten memoir of Duchesse d'Angouleme in the Temple Tower), who took the papers out of Austria.  Later, after Don Jaime's death, the Pricesse Massimo (his sister) tried to get Canson to return everything---to no avail!  And then the Russians burned many things at Frohsdorf in 1945.  So many things are now lost forever.  I'm very interested in the story of the Comte de Chambord's journal----how did Mr. Delorme acquire it?  Where was the original found?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: frohsdorf on July 20, 2009, 10:29:01 PM
Does anyone know where Elias de Bourbon-Parme is buried?  I heard that he has a famiily crypt in a church in Lower Austria, but it's very difficult to locate!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on July 21, 2009, 02:16:41 AM
Does anyone know where Elias de Bourbon-Parme is buried?  I heard that he has a famiily crypt in a church in Lower Austria, but it's very difficult to locate!

According to Alois Jahn ("Das Haus Habsburg") Elias and his wife Archduchess Maria Anna were laid to rest at a place called Thalberger Schwaig / Neue Glashütte which is in the northwest of Friedberg in Austria. Their tombs seem to be in the chapel St. Ludwig.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on July 21, 2009, 02:17:50 AM
This website (http://www.stift-vorau.at/65_Pfarre-Pinggau.aspx?LNG=de (http://www.stift-vorau.at/65_Pfarre-Pinggau.aspx?LNG=de)) calls the chapel "Prinz Bourbon-Parma Gruftkapelle auf der Thalberger Schwaig" (Prince Bourbon-Prama crypt at the Thalberger Schwaig).

Are you planning to visit Elias' grave?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on July 21, 2009, 09:02:47 AM
Marie Charlotte, i thought that Elias, duke of Parma and his wife wrer buried in Mönichkirchen?

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on July 21, 2009, 10:09:11 AM
Marie Charlotte, i thought that Elias, duke of Parma and his wife wrer buried in Mönichkirchen?

REMI


Hello Remi,

according to the wikipedia entry of the village of Pinggau Elias and Maria Anna are buried in the so-called Prinz Bourbon-Parma-Gruftkapelle on the Thalberger Schwaig. Pinggau is located near a low mountain range called Wechsel and it has grown together with the city of Friedberg. As far as I understood it, the Thalberger Schwaig is on the mountain Wechsel and belongs to the parish of Pinggau. The village in the south of Pinggau is Mönichkirchen, but this doesn't seem to be the place where the Bourbon-Parmas were laid to rest.

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on July 21, 2009, 12:23:20 PM
Thank you very much, Marie Charlotte.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Tybalt on August 30, 2009, 12:56:47 PM
Hello everyone

  Brigitte, grafin af Holstein-Ledreborg died on august the 21st, she married Jacques of Bourbon, prince of Parma on june the 9° of 1947, he died on novembre the 5° of 1964, they had 3 children (2 boys and a girl)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on September 02, 2009, 07:28:33 AM
Princess Maria Cristina of Bourbon Parma died yesterday september the 1st in Vienna.She was the youngest daughter of Duke Elias 1st and Maria Anna of Austia. She was born in 1925 on 7 june.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eurohistory on September 05, 2009, 08:29:51 PM
It's been a few years since I participated in this forum.  It's been very interesting reading all of the posts pertaining to the Bourbon-Parma family and the Comte de Chambord.  Some of the information is misleading, however.  I will be in Viareggio and Lucca this fall to examine the remaining papers of the Comte de Chambord at the State Archives.  They were donated to the City in 1963 by the eldest daughter of Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo.  Many of his papers were burned at his death in 1883;  Don Jaime de Bourbon inherited many interesting items and had everything at Schloss Frohsdord inventoried in 1910.  Many valuable items and papers were given to an acquaintance, Viscount Canson, just before WWI (including the handwritten memoir of Duchesse d'Angouleme in the Temple Tower), who took the papers out of Austria.  Later, after Don Jaime's death, the Pricesse Massimo (his sister) tried to get Canson to return everything---to no avail!  And then the Russians burned many things at Frohsdorf in 1945.  So many things are now lost forever.  I'm very interested in the story of the Comte de Chambord's journal----how did Mr. Delorme acquire it?  Where was the original found?

Welcome back Robert...I'll ask Philippe and post his answer here...enjoy Viareggio and Lucca...both beautiful places. I visited them often when I studied Italian in Florence, many Summers ago.

Arturo Beeche
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Jose II on September 18, 2009, 09:43:02 AM
Hello everyone

  Brigitte, grafin af Holstein-Ledreborg died on august the 21st, she married Jacques of Bourbon, prince of Parma on june the 9° of 1947, he died on novembre the 5° of 1964, they had 3 children (2 boys and a girl)

Does anybody have any photos of the couple ?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on September 19, 2009, 01:30:57 AM
Hello everyone

  Brigitte, grafin af Holstein-Ledreborg died on august the 21st, she married Jacques of Bourbon, prince of Parma on june the 9° of 1947, he died on novembre the 5° of 1964, they had 3 children (2 boys and a girl)

Does anybody have any photos of the couple ?
Thanks in advance.

Here's a photo with their wedguests. The picture had been posted at some other historical forum,sorry I don't remember where exactly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/PrinceJaque_spouse_wedding_1947.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/PrinceJaque_spouse_wedding_1947.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on September 26, 2009, 01:07:08 PM
Many thanks, Sveta for the very interesting pic of Jacques et Brigitte's wedding. I would like to know who is the lady with the figure surrounded by a circle?
I recognize, on the right, the young Anne, future spouse of king Michel of Rumania et Michel of Bourbon Parma, in french uniform...Can be seen also Jean of Luxemburg, his uncle prince Xavier of Bourbon Parma, prince Georges of Greece....But the others? Difficult to say...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on September 26, 2009, 02:16:09 PM
Hello everyone

  Brigitte, grafin af Holstein-Ledreborg died on august the 21st, she married Jacques of Bourbon, prince of Parma on june the 9° of 1947, he died on novembre the 5° of 1964, they had 3 children (2 boys and a girl)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/familledeRen.jpg)

This pic was taken in 1970, near Copenhagen for the 75th anniversary of Margaret of Denmark, princess of René of Bourbon Parma
Standing, from left to right: Anne of Rumania; his brother, Michel of Bourbon Parma; Eric, son of Michel;
Lorraine, daughter of Jacques of Bourbon Parma (+ 1964) and  Brigitte of Holstein Ledreborg (+ on august the 21st 2009); Irina of Rumania; Philip of Bourbon-Parma and his mother Brigitte of Holstein Ledreborg; king Michel of Rumania; Inès of Bourbon Parma (+ in London in 1981), daughter of Michel of Bourbon Parma.
Seated, from left to right: prince Alain of Bourbon Parma, son of Jacques et Brigitte; Sibylle and Victoire de Bourbon Parma, daughters of Michel; the grandmother, Margaret of Denmark (+1992), widow prince René  of Bourbon Parma; Maria et Sofia of Rumania.   
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: JimBob on September 26, 2009, 03:34:22 PM
Prince Jacques of Bourbon-Parma & Countess Birgitte Holstein af Ledreborg
Held in the Chapel of Castle Ledreborg, Denmark

9th June 1947

Prince Rénè & Princess Margrethe of Bourbon-Parma
Count Josef & Countess Christina Holstein af Ledreborg
Prince Axel & Princess Margaretha of Denmark
Prince Georg of Denmark
Prince Flemming of Denmark
Prince & Princess Viggo, Count & Countess af Rosenborg
Prince George of Greece
Hereditary Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg
Crown Prince Olav & Crown Princess Märtha of Norway
Prince Michel of Bourbon-Parma
Prince André of Bourbon-Parma
Princess Anne of Bourbon-Parma
Grand Duchess Olga of Russia, Mme Koulikovsky & M. Nikolai Koulikovsky
Princess Ingeborg of Sweden, Duchess of Västergötland
Count Knud Holstein af Ledreborg

Two Luxembourg Princesses
Prince of Bourbon-Parma (Brother of Prince Rénè)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on September 27, 2009, 06:01:12 AM
Many thanks, Sveta for the very interesting pic of Jacques et Brigitte's wedding. I would like to know who is the lady with the figure surrounded by a circle?


That's GDss Olga Alexandrovna.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Jose II on September 29, 2009, 02:01:39 PM

Here's a photo with their wedguests. The picture had been posted at some other historical forum,sorry I don't remember where exactly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/PrinceJaque_spouse_wedding_1947.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/PrinceJaque_spouse_wedding_1947.jpg)


I have this I.D. list :

 Behind the bride and groom we have Prince René and Princess Margrethe of Bourbon-Parma - sitting between the bride's parents Countess Christina and Count Josef Holstein-Ledreborg.
The elegant lady to the extreme right is Cr Pss Märtha of Norway - and next to her it's the groom's younger siblings, Princess Anne and Prince Michel of Bourbon-Parma.
The man standing behind Anne of Bourbon-Parma is wearing the uniform of a Danish chamberlain. Don't know his name, but probably a noble landowner.
Behind him - in a light dress - we see Princess Margaretha of Denmark. Her husband and youngest son, Prince Axel and Prince Flemming, are seen to the right of her.
Behind the bride's mother there is a woman with a big hat...perhaps Princess Luise of Prussia (b. 1917).The uniformed man next to her is Prince Viggo of Denmark.
Behind Prince Viggo it's Princess Aage of Denmark, Prince George of Greece, Princess Ingeborg of Sweden, the priest, and Princess Viggo of Denmark.
Behind Pss Aage: Pss Elisabeth of Luxembourg, Pss M-Adelaïde of Luxembourg, maybe Pss Isabelle of B-Parma (dau of Sixtus), Hereditary Gr Duke Jean of Luxembourg, probably Count Carl Holstein-Ledreborg (brother of the bride), probably Pr André of B-Parma (brother of the groom), Pr Georg of Denmark, and Cr Pr Olav of Norway.
In the white circle: Grand Duchess Olga of Russia (she is singled out because the photo was printed with an article about the grand duchess).
To the right of Olga: Prince Erik of Denmark, and behind him Prince Xavier of Bourbon-Parma.
In the back row, far left: Probably Count Valdemar of Rosenborg and Count Knud Holstein-Ledreborg (brother of the bride).         
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: KarlandZita on October 02, 2009, 12:35:38 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/sxfr.jpg)
Princes Sixtus, Xavier, Felix and René of Bourbon and Parma in 1914

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/parmabrothers.jpg)
The six princes of Bourbon Parma in 1925 : sitting : Sixte ; standing, from left to right : Louis, Felix, René, Gaetan and Xavier

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/xaviersixteelisa.jpg)
Princes Sixtus and Xavier with Queen Elizabeth of Belgium during the war
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: KarlandZita on January 15, 2010, 02:06:28 PM
Prince René :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/renbp.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/prenparma.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/renbourbonp.jpg)

Felix :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/pfvparma.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/felx.jpg)

Xavier :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/wavierbourbonparma.jpg)

Princes René, Sixte and Xavier of Bourbon Parma :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/sixtexavierren.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on January 16, 2010, 01:24:54 AM



Xavier :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/wavierbourbonparma.jpg)

Princes René, Sixte and Xavier of Bourbon Parma :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/sixtexavierren.jpg)


I think there are two mistakes with these two last pictures:
1."Xavier" is in reality FELIX.
2. The three princes are, in my opinion,René, XAVIER (not Sixte) and FELIX, not Xavier

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 23, 2010, 01:27:25 PM
How did this very devout Catholic family deal with the fact that their patrimony (the Farnese Duchy of Parma and Piacenza) was established for the illegitimate son of a cardinal who became pope, I wonder???
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: KarlandZita on February 08, 2010, 10:44:13 AM
Princess Francesca of Bourbon Parma, sister of Zita :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/Iberian%20Royalty/Bourbon%20Parma/franziskaborbonparma.jpg)


She appears to me like a pale copy of Zita, without the charm or grace of her younger sister. In the photos and period films, she often seems sad and sulky.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 08, 2010, 02:05:39 PM
She appears to me like a pale copy of Zita, without the charm or grace of her younger sister.

I can't help myself, Roberto's children by his second wife Antonia resemble each other so much that it's sometimes really hard to distinguish between them.
Francesca was a well-known beauty. Well, she wasn't ugly, of course, but in my opinion she as far away from being beautiful - even if I keep to the standards of that periode.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on February 09, 2010, 09:20:04 AM
I am searching for pic/photos of Diana de Bourbon-Parma (b. 1932) , Gatano's daughter and of her 2nd husband Hans Joachim Oehmichen .

Can someone help ?

Thanks in advance

José
Title: Question About Picture
Post by: Eutropius on February 21, 2010, 03:13:22 PM
It seems like I should put this question in the Italian Royal Families message board, but Roberto I of Parma's thread is located here.  I found this image on flickr.  It has been tagged as showing Princess Beatrice of Bourbon-Parma, Countess Lucchesi Palli (1879-1939).  I'm skeptical.  I haven't seen enough pictures of her, nor do i know enough about fashion, to be able to make a judgement on this picture.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29482804@N06/3278235323/

Even if does show a "Beatrice de Bourbon," could it be one of the following? 

The Duchess of Ansola (nee Beatrice Harrington) - 1891-1979
Infanta Beatriz of Spain, Princess of Civitelli-Cesi - 1911-1986
Princess Beatrice of Bourbon, Princess of Roviano 1874-1961

Can anyone confirm the identity?  Thanks for your help. 
Title: Re: Question About Picture
Post by: grandduchessella on February 21, 2010, 03:54:48 PM
Based on the fashion alone, there's no way it could be the Beatrice described--who would have been in her 60s in the photo which this lady is not. I would think that would rule out the Princess of Roviano as well.
Title: Re: Question About Picture
Post by: REMI on February 22, 2010, 06:19:30 PM
I presume it must be Beatrice of Clinchamp-Bellegarde (1883-?) married in London August 6, 1906 with Henri-Gabriel RICHARD (1865-1942), son of Blanche of Marconnay, the morganatic spouse of Prince Pasquale of Bourbon Two Sicilies, count of Bari.
That Richard was actually adopted and acknowledged by Prince Pasquale but the adoption was subsequently annulled by the French justice after several lawsuits between him and the Royal House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.
Henri-Gabriel RICHARD was first called "Richard of Bourbon" and then "Richard de Marconnay".
He was known as the "Count of Bari"in the Parisian high society.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marie Valerie on March 07, 2010, 09:32:12 AM
And I'm looking for Pics of  Margarete von Thurn und Taxis (*1909) Gaetan's former wife.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Rani on March 07, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
I have just one of her as an old woman

(http://i46.tinypic.com/igxf6f.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Katerina Stradova on March 27, 2010, 04:31:43 PM
Does anyone have any information about Elias' wife, Maria Anna of Austria? And does anyone know why their son Robert II of Parma never married?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Rani on March 29, 2010, 12:56:41 PM
And I'm looking for Pics of  Margarete von Thurn und Taxis (*1909) Gaetan's former wife.

(http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy328/heleneinbayern/MargareteofThurnandTaxis.jpg)

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 29, 2010, 01:16:18 PM
Who is the bridegoom ? Sorry if that sounded silly.  :-[

I wonder where is the studio. From the logo in the corner it seems to be the same one that did Elisabeth ("Wooley") and Sophie ("Tiny") of Greece. If that is true, that would be in Paris.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on March 30, 2010, 08:59:55 AM
Who is the bridegoom ? Sorry if that sounded silly.  :-[

I wonder where is the studio. From the logo in the corner it seems to be the same one that did Elisabeth ("Wooley") and Sophie ("Tiny") of Greece. If that is true, that would be in Paris.

The wedding took place in Paris on april the 29th 1931. I suppose that the studio is Harcourt ???

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 30, 2010, 01:14:41 PM
Any information about the Harcourt Studio in Paris  ?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on March 31, 2010, 04:45:57 PM
The studio Harcourt is a prestigious photography studio  founded by Lacroix brothers. Always active, it is famous for its black and white photos of stars and VIP. It always located at 10 rue Jean Goujon Paris (8ème).
But, I am not sure at all that the pic of Gaetan of Bourbon Parma'wedding was made by Harcourt. The signature is not the same.

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Chablais on June 15, 2010, 09:12:27 AM
Any info on the cause of the death of Elias' third son Francesco? He died just before being 26 in Hungary.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on June 15, 2010, 01:10:02 PM
Any info on the cause of the death of Elias' third son Francesco? He died just before being 26 in Hungary.
The prince died in a accident

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on May 17, 2011, 05:53:27 AM
Duchess Alice of Calabria (nee Bourbon-Parma) with her spouse



And here's the wedding of Alice and her spouse Alfonso in 1938.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/DukeAlfonsoofCalabria_wedding_1938.jpg)

Alice in in her wedding-dress

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1936alieborbonwedcaalbr.jpg)

Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on November 26, 2012, 06:42:40 AM
Nice pictures, REMI and Agneschen, thanks for posting!
But I have another question: Are there any pictures of Beatrice (1879-1946), one of daughters of Roberto of Parma from his first marriage with Maria Pia? She was one of three healthy children from this marriage and she was married with Count (?) Luchesi-Palli.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/BeatixdeBourbon-Parme.jpg)

Beatrice of Borbone Parma (1879-1946) in 1894 in Schwarzau at the age of 15 years. She married Count Pietro Lucchesi Palli in 1906

Here's Beatrice and her husband

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1906wsd.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: REMI on November 26, 2012, 11:19:48 AM
Many thanks Sveta. This the first time I see this picture
Remi
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on November 26, 2012, 01:15:30 PM
Many thanks Sveta. This the first time I see this picture
Remi


You are most welcome. I personally is very surprised that Beatrice looks so pretty in fact.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on December 01, 2012, 08:34:11 AM
Duchess Madeleine of Bourbon-Parma,nee de Bourbon-Busset wearing a tiara:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/MadlBuss.jpg)

Not sure which tiara she is wearing,but looks impressive!
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 01, 2012, 05:58:45 PM
Who was she married to ?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on December 02, 2012, 11:44:39 AM
Who was she married to ?

Madeleine de Bourbon-Busset was married to Duke Xavier of Bourbon-Parma,which makes her mother in law of Princess Irene of the Netherlands,as well as grandmother of the present Duke Carlos...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 02, 2012, 04:29:54 PM
Thanks. That would also make her sister-in-law to Zita ?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on December 02, 2012, 07:50:36 PM
Thanks. That would also make her sister-in-law to Zita ?

Yes, sister-in-law to Zita as well as: Maria Luisa of Bulgaria (theoretically as Maria Luisa died long before--does anyone know the contact of the family with her widower Ferdinand?) ;  Elias (married to ADss Maria Anna); Sixte; Felix (married to GDss Charlotte of Luxemburg); Rene (married to Margarethe of Denmark); Luigii (married to Maria of Savoy, youngest daughter of Victor Emmanuel & Elena) and Gaetano (married to Margarethe of Thurn und Taxis) as well as others.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 02, 2012, 11:17:33 PM
Where does Madelaine's own family came from ? She was from a branch of the Bourbon family.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on December 03, 2012, 04:05:39 PM
Where does Madelaine's own family came from ? She was from a branch of the Bourbon family.

She comes from a rich branch of the Bourbon family descended from Louis de Bourbon,Bishop of Liege who had illegitimate issue with Katarina of Egmont,regent of Geldern...

Madeleine's family owned several Castles across France and her son Prince Sixte-Henri still lives there...

Madeleine left one of the castles to her daughter Francoise and today Prince Charles-Henri de Lobkowicz owns it,but i don't know the name :(

Here is part of it:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/busset-lobkowicz.jpg)

Chateau de Busset  is still owned by the family and is now a hotel...
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/busset.jpg)

Chateau de Saussay where Charles de Bourbon-Busset, Vicomte de Busset, Comte de Lignieres lives...
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/busset-saussay.jpg)

Chateau de Vesigneux where Philippe de Bourbon-Busset,Comte de Chalus lives...
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/busset-visigneux.jpg)

and Chateau de Lignieres where Madeleine's son prince Sixte-Henri of Bourbon-Parma lives..
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/busset-lignieres.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 04, 2012, 08:08:20 AM
Thanks for the pictures and information. Have no idea that the family is so rich.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on December 04, 2012, 10:51:05 AM
Her father was Georges, Count of Lignières, and her mother Marie Jeanne de Kerret de Quillien. I think she was one of 9 siblings--all of whom seem to have married very well into the aristocracy.

(http://www.vexilla-regis.com/textevr/IMAGES/vichybourbonbusset.jpg)

Madeleine left one castle to her youngest son and the other to her daughter Francoise. Her grandson Charles Henri prince Lobkowicz now owns it.
The marriage of Xavier & Madeleine's daughter Francoise to  Edouard de Lobkowicz

(http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/nr01/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/lobkomariage1.jpg)

Four estates derive from the Bourbon-Busset branch and are still occupied:

- the Château de Busset  (in the Bourbonnais, the Auvergne)  (in use as a hotel to gain revenue)
- the Château de Saussay  (Ile-de-France) (in use by Charles de Bourbon-Busset, Vicomte de Busset, Comte de Lignières)
- the Château de Vésigneux (in the Nièvre, the Bourgogne) (in use by Philippe de Bourbon de Châlus, Comte de Châlus)
- the Château de Lignières (in the Cher, central France) (in use by Prince Sixte-Henri de Bourbon de Parme)

As for the last, Henri on Royal Jewels of the World MB said this: "It is difficult to tell what will happen with the château, the domains of Lignières and other possessions when Prince  Sixte-Henri passes away. He seems still only on speaking terms with his eldest sibling, Princess Françoise-Marie de Lobkowicz whom has issue (the still unmarried Prince Charles-Henri de Lobkowicz and Princess Marie-Gabrielle de Lobkowicz, whom seems to be a nun, if I am correct).
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 04, 2012, 11:44:06 AM
That for the wealth of information. Appreciate it !
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on December 04, 2012, 03:08:21 PM
What is also interesting is that Madeleine is a great-granddaughter of Prince d'Orange,while her son married Princess Irene whose family also claims the title Prince of Orange...
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on December 04, 2012, 03:30:07 PM
"Madeleine de Bourbon-Busset (1898–1984), daughter of the count of Lignières and Jacques's fourth cousin once removed, married in 1927 a royal Bourbon relative, Xavier, titular duke of Parma and Carlist pretender to the throne of Spain. Although Madeleine brought as dowry the chateau of Lignières, at the time this marriage was not accepted as dynastic by the titular Duke, Xavier's elder brother, obtaining dynastic recognition retroactively around the time of the engagement of Xavier's eldest son to the daughter of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands in 1964.

As wife of Xavier, Madeleine was, however, proclaimed Queen consort of Spain by the remaining Carlists in 1952. Widowed in 1977, she remained a staunch adherent of her husband's Carlist principles. She excluded her elder son from the funeral of her husband as disloyal to his father's traditionalist Carlism, recognizing instead the claim to Carlist leadership and to Lignières of her younger son Prince Sixtus Henry of Bourbon-Parma, (self-proclaimed) duke of Aranjuez, who continued the rivalry with his brother as Carlist pretender.

A senior male-line descendant of the Bourbon-Busset was the French writer Jacques de Bourbon-Busset (1912–2001), member of the French Academy. President Charles de Gaulle was once quoted telling him: Had it not been for the decision of King Louis XI, you might well be head of state of France today, instead of me."

Also:

"Xavier's marriage to Madeleine was recognised as dynastic by the Carlist claimant to the throne of Spain, Alfonso Carlos, Duke of San Jaime, who was married to the sister of Xavier's mother. However, Xavier's half-brother Elias – who was regent for their handicapped brother Duke Enrico of Parma – did not recognise the marriage as dynastic regarding the succession to the ducal throne of Parma. The reason for this lack of dynastic recognition was in part Madeleine's ancestry, but it was also influenced by other political and family differences. During the 1920s and 1930s Elias and Xavier were on opposing sides of a family legal battle over the ownership of the Château de Chambord. Elias had also recognised Alfonso XIII as constitutional king of Spain, in spite of the fact that his father Robert had supported the Carlist claimants.
In 1961 Elias' son Duke Robert II of Parma recognised the marriage between Xavier and Madeleine as dynastic regarding the succession to the ducal throne of Parma."

And dynastic squabbling:

"On 20 April 1975 Xavier abdicated as Carlist king in favour of Carlos Hugo. His younger son Sixtus Henry opposed the succession of Carlos Hugo and presented himself as the "standard-bearer" (abanderado) of traditional Carlism. Xavier issued a declaration affirming that his abdication had been voluntary, and that Sixtus Henry had separated himself from Carlism. The battle between Xavier's sons continued with each claiming their father's support. Carlos Hugo was supported by his three unmarried sisters, while Sixtus Henry was supported by his mother.

Carlos Hugo accused Sixtus Henry of having abducted Xavier who was then in hospital. Sixtus Henry published a declaration from Xavier dated 4 March 1977 in which Xavier re-affirmed his support for traditional Carlism. In this document Xavier condemned the socialist form of Carlism which he described as "a very serious doctrinal error". Three days later on 7 March 1977, Xavier's daughter Cecilia took Xavier out of hospital in order to take him to mass. On this occasion Xavier signed another declaration published by Carlos Hugo in which he confirmed Carlos Hugo as his heir. The next day Xavier's wife Madeleine published a declaration condemning Carlos Hugo and Cecilia.

On 7 May 1977 Xavier died of a heart attack in a hospital at Zizers near Chur in Switzerland; he had been visiting his sister the Empress Zita of Austria. Xavier was buried at St. Peter's Abbey, Solesmes where three of his sisters had been nuns."
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Marc on December 04, 2012, 05:17:49 PM
Thnx GDElla,very informative...

Here is a picture of Comtesse de Bourbon-Busset waering a tiara in 1957:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/bourbon-buss.jpg)

And one picture of Madeleine's daughter Princess Francoise de Lobkowicz:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/FrancParme.jpg)

And one of her late son,Prince Robert de Lobkowicz:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/RobertLob.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on December 04, 2012, 09:36:44 PM
Francoise:

"Princess Françoise of Bourbon-Parma, elected by the Fashion press as one of the World's most elegant woman on the famous International Best Dressed List among other Beauty Icons like Jackeline Kennedy, Aimee de Heeren or Audrey Hepburn. Central figure of the International High Society."

From a newspaper in 1976 recounting some recent additions to the International Best Dressed list:

"...whose husband is the Paris representative of a New York brokerage firm is small and elegantly groomed. She has always been dressed by Pierre Balmain."

She, along with Prince Charles-Henri de Lobkowicz, was at the recent Luxemburg wedding of Guillaume and Stephanie Lannoy.

Some more wedding photos:

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1960-Press-Photo-Princess-Francoise-De-Bourbon-Parme-Prince-Edward-De-Lobkowicz-/00/s/MTAwMFg3NTE=/$T2eC16R,!zUE9s38+GpWBQMp7oKG0w~~60_57.JPG)


(http://media.tipsimages.it/MediaNews/Logo/RDA00143961.jpg)

(http://www.anp-archief.nl/attachment/5924)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on December 04, 2012, 09:41:29 PM
Interestingly, Marlene has this on her blog:

"The bride and groom are Princess Francoise Lobkowicz (1893-1964) and Franz Anton Prince von Thun und Hohenstein (1890-1973). Franz Anton was the second child but eldest son of Jaroslav Prince Thun von Hohenstein and Countess Marie Chotek v.Chotkowa u.Wognin, the elder sister of Countess Sophie Chotek, the morganatic wife of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria. This wedding of Sophie's nephew took place nearly two years after Franz Ferdinand and Sophie were assassinated at Sarajevo, the event that precipitated the start of the first world war."

Whole article and photo:

http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2010/01/noble-wedding-in-1916.html

So Francoise's children would be related to the ill-fated Sophie Chotek as well as the last Empress of Austria.
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: grandduchessella on December 04, 2012, 09:48:54 PM
Marlene also a quite lengthy article on Francoise, her husband, their marriage and her children. Her life hasn't been untouched by maternal tragedy.

"Princess Francoise gave birth to the couple's first son, Edouard-Xavier, October 19, 1960 at the American Hospital at Neuilly. On May 8, 1984, French police announced that they had found the body of Prince Edouard-Xavier' body in the Seine River, outside Paris. His parents had reported him missing on April 4, and the body was found on April 27, although his family was not notified until May 4. The body remained unidentified for several days because of an inaccurate description of the prince. The autopsy showed that the prince had been shot in the throat by a shotgun. A bullet was also in his left shoulder blade. (His murder has never been solved although a Spanish news service claims he was murdered by Moslem terrorists.)
Tragedy again hit the family on October 31, 1988, when Prince Robert, who was born in 1961, died of a brain tumor in Beirut, Lebanon. Prince Charles-Henri, who was born in 1964 is unmarried, and the youngest child, Princess Marie-Gabrielle (1967), is a nun. At age 24, the princess renounced a life of travel and haute couture clothes and joined the Little Sisters of the Poor in the United States, and "accepted the vows of extreme poverty.""

Full blog entry along with a few photos:

http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2010/04/death-of-prince-edouard-de-lobkowicz.html

From mardam's site:

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/bourbon/bbparma3/1928%20Francoise.JPG)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: KarlandZita on December 15, 2012, 08:00:01 AM
René, Maria Antonia, Isabelle and Louis of Boubon Parma :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/290214renmariaantoniaisabellelouisparma.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=290214renmariaantoniaisabellelouisparma.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: KarlandZita on January 19, 2013, 08:14:35 AM
Felix :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/420391fbp.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=420391fbp.jpg)

René :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/291362renebp.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=291362renebp.jpg)

and Louis :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/794442louisbp.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=794442louisbp.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: José on January 31, 2013, 01:45:19 PM
Any info on the cause of the death of Elias' third son Francesco? He died just before being 26 in Hungary.
The prince died in a accident

REMI


What kind of accident ? Car ?

What an ill fated family.

The eldest son died with polio, a daughter died after being shot at a hunting party, now this one...

What about Pr. Robert II ? He never got married. Being a descendant of Duke Robert I's first marriage, where there were a great number of handicapped children, was he handicapped too ?
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Svetabel on September 23, 2013, 05:17:31 AM
Princess Maria Luisa, future Princess of Bulgaria

(http://www.picatom.com/2a/-17990-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/2a/-17990.html)
Title: Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 23, 2013, 12:50:56 PM
Her son Boris looked exactly like her in face...