Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Italian Royal Families => Topic started by: Frederika on June 10, 2005, 02:48:31 AM

Title: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Frederika on June 10, 2005, 02:48:31 AM
Maria Josè, princess of belgium, was queen of Italy for a month. How did she feel having to leave italy and go it to exile?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on June 10, 2005, 04:13:13 AM
Of course she was sad and very upset, but she also was a very strong woman who had not intention to spend the remaning years of her life (in 1946 she was only 40 years old!) thinking to the past (as, partially did Umberto II).

So after living with her husband for a short time, she left and went to live in Suisse, where she started a new life.
She travelled a lot with her mother (together they went to China) and dedicated herself to her hobbies that is music (she was a great expert) and writing (she wrote marvellious books on Casa Savoia's history).

Bye
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on June 10, 2005, 05:55:28 AM
In 1988 (5 years after Umberto II's death, he never saw Italy again!) she was given the permission to visit Italy.
So she went to Aosta and Turin and some people say she also came back to Naples...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on June 15, 2005, 01:54:32 PM

They loved each other, but were raised in two very different ways so they had different attitudes towards life, and this after years of marriage in Italy separated them.
It is true Maria Josè had not a good relation with Vittorio Emanuele III. In 1943 she was basically sent to "exile" in the mountain resort of S. Anna di Valdieri, so that she could not interfer with political matters anymore...

Consider only that Maria Josè did not go to VE III's funeral in 1947, but went to the one of her Mother-in-law, Queen Elena....


Anyway in her late years her opinion of her father-in-law got better.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Marc on July 10, 2005, 09:11:17 AM
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/auersperg23/MJose.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovFan on July 19, 2005, 05:32:10 PM
Info on Marie-José of Belgium:

Born: 4 August 1906 in Ostend, Belgium

Died: 27 January 2001 in Italy?

Parents: King Albert I & Queen Elisabeth (of Barvaria)

Siblings: Brothers, Charles-Theodore and Leopold III

Married: Crown Prince Umberto (King Umberto II) of Italy
January 8, 1930

Children:

Maria Pia, b. 1934

Vittorio Emanuelle (III) b. 1937

Maria Gabriella b. 1940

Maria Beatrice b. 1942

*Known as the "May Queen" of Italy...did the Italian monarchy end after she died?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: umigon on August 24, 2005, 03:56:19 AM
Umberto II married Marie José of Belgium (1906-2001) in 1930. They had the following children:


1. Maria Pia (1934). She married Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia (b.1924) in 1955, but they were divorced in 1967. She married Prince Michael of Bourbon-Parma (born 1926) in 2003.

2. Vittorio Emanuele (1937). He married Marina Ricolfi Doria (b.1935) in 1971.

3. Maria Gabriella (1940). She married  Robert Zellinger de Balkany (b.1931) in 1969, but they were divorced in 1990.

4. Maria Beatrice (1943). She married Luis Reyna y Corvalán (1939-1999) in 1970.


All of Umberto's children had children. Umberto never returned to Italy after he fled th country in 1946!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on August 25, 2005, 12:24:46 PM

Umberto II's son is Vittorio Emanuele IV King of Italy or Prince of Naples, he currently lives in Switzerland in a town near Geneve called Vesenaz.
Btw as now he can also live in Italy he says he's looking for a house somewhere in Italy. He hasn't decided yet.
His son is Emanuele Filiberto, Prince of Venice and Piemont. He married Clotilde Courau and they have a daughter, Vittoria.
We are waiting for a little Umberto...
They want to live in Italy too.
They bought a house near Vesenaz, and they also live in Paris, as Princesse Clotilde was born there.

They are a very nice family and Princesse Vittoria is indeed a beautiful child.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: TampaBay on August 28, 2005, 06:54:47 AM


Why won't "they" let the old dead king back in.  If you were born in Italy and want to be buried in Italy, it seems to me you have that right.  The Romanians even let Carol II and his mistress come back.

How much trouble could a "dead" king cause?

Also, who are "they" which are fighting his reburial on Italian soil.

TampaBay
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on August 28, 2005, 01:48:08 PM

Italian comunists and many other politicians, you cannot imagine how the Savoia are still hated in Italy.

How incomprehensible!!

The Savoia created Italy, without them we would still have a Pope King in Rome.
How unbecoming it would be, don't you think?
The Popes like Pio IX, the last Pope King, used to condemn even to death!
They were true Christians (I am being ironical, of course)

Gleb
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on September 09, 2005, 06:43:41 AM
Thanks Lucien for writing here your opinions which I found very interesting.

There are anyway some points I do not share. I know that characters like VE III and UII aren't still completely known and understood, even in Italy.

For example, as regards VE III, I wouldn't be so severe. He wasn't just a puppet in mussolino's hands. Those years were very difficoult in Italy, many historians begin to ask "In 1922, could the King refuse fascism?" and other questions like these.
To me they show that a different attitude towards VE III is now possible, although we are still far from his rehabilitation.

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on September 09, 2005, 06:52:19 AM

Well, I do not agree at all, I'd be happy to tell you that Umberto II started a new life in Portugal maybe with another woman. But it is not true, Umberto never was a womanizer as some still think.
He was quite shy.

I think Umberto II loved very much MJ, but they were different and lived in strange years.

What I mean is : U II did not have an army of lovers.
If he had affairs we do not know, there are not evidences. And it is right, these are private aspects of their lives.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on September 11, 2005, 01:35:08 PM


Umberto II wore an ancient dress in occasion of an historic Carousell in remembrance of EMANUELE FILIBERTO di Savoia, the ancestor who brought the capital of the Sabaudian Duchy in Turin.

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Aliss_Kande on October 01, 2005, 01:05:50 PM
I think Marie Jose was so lovely.  I feel so sorry for her trying to manage her curly hair.  The curls look so tight!

I can't see the pictures on the websight anymore.  I saw them for half a second and then my pop-up blocker blocked it out.  I turned the blocker off, but I still can't see them.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 04:58:28 AM

Umberto II, occasionally anglicized as Humbert II, (September 15, 1904 - March 18, 1983), the last King of Italy, nicknamed the King of May (Italian Re di Maggio), was born the Prince of Piedmont.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 04:58:53 AM
He served as the last King of Italy for slightly over a month, from May 9, 1946 to June 12, 1946. He was married in Rome, Italy on January 8, 1930 to Marie Josè Belgium (August 4, 1906 - January 27, 2001).
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 04:59:13 AM
The Prince of Piedmont was educated to a military career and in time became the commander in chief of the Northern Armies, and then of the Southern ones. However his role was merely formal, the concrete command belonging to Mussolini. By mutual agreement Umberto and Mussolini always kept at distance. It has been conjectured that Mussolini had collected a secret dossier on Umberto, but this folder (which is said to have been found after the dictator was shot), was never seen.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 04:59:32 AM
Following the Sabaudian' tradition ("Only one Savoy reigns at a time"), he kept apart from active politics until he was finally named the Lieutenant. Only in one case, while he was in Germany for a royal wedding, did he make an exception, when he autonomously arranged to meet Hitler (it is likely that he himself proposed the meeting). This action was not considered proper, given the international situation, and Umberto was later even more severely banned from political events.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 04:59:56 AM
In 1943, the Crown Princess Maria Josè the daughter of King Albert I of Belgium, was involved in vain attempts to arrange a separate peace treaty between Italy and the United States, and her interlocutor from Vatican was Monsignor Giovanni Battista Montini, a senior diplomat who later became Pope Paul VI.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:00:08 AM
Her attempts were not sponsored by the king and Umberto was not (directly, at least) involved in them. After her failure (she never met the American agents), she was sent with her children to Sarre, in Aosta Valley, and isolated from the political life of the Royal House.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:00:34 AM
Following the overthrow of Benito Mussolini in 1943, King Victor Emmanuel handed over his constitutional functions to Umberto, who was made Lieutenant General of the Realm, and left Italy for Egypt.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:00:48 AM
Umberto earned for himself widespread praise for his role in the following three years. Had Victor Emmanuel III handed over the throne in 1943, it is likely that the monarchy would have won the 1946 referendum on its survival. Victor Emmanuel's failure proved to be one of his many major misjudgments.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:01:01 AM
The referendum itself was and remains shrouded by questions as to its authenticity. Millions of voters, many of them pro-monarchist, were unable to vote because they had not yet been able to return to their own local areas to register. Nor had the issue of Italy's borders, and so the voting rights of those in disputed areas, been satisfactorily clarified.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:01:27 AM
Other allegations too have been made about voter manipulation, while even the issue of how to interpret the votes became controversial, as it appeared that not just a majority of those validly voting but of those votes cast (including spoiled votes), was needed to reach an outcome in the event the monarchy lost by a tight margin. Umberto had by this stage become king, Victor Emmanuel having reluctantly and belatedly abdicated a few weeks before the referendum.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:01:40 AM
Umberto served as king for 33 days. The monarchy formally ended on June 12, 1946 and Umberto became a king in exile, leaving Italy forever. Prime Minister Alcide De Gasperi assumed office as Italy's interim Head of State.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:02:16 AM
Umberto and Maria Josè separated in exile; it was indeed an arranged marriage, following a long tradition of royal families, even if some observers alleged that she was really fascinated by her husband, an elegant tombeur de femmes.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:02:48 AM
King Umberto lived for 35 years in exile, a popular old gentleman, nicknamed 'Europe's grandfather', at many of Europe's royal weddings. While during Umberto's lifetime the 1947 constitution of the Italian Republic barred all male heirs to the defunct Italian throne from setting foot on Italian soil again, female members of the Savoy family were not barred, but out of respect for Umberto and his son, Crown Prince Victor Emmanuel, Maria Jos頡nd her daughters declined to return to their native land, the exiled queen making her first return to her late husband's kingdom only in the 1980s.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:03:00 AM
When it was revealed that the exiled king was terminally ill, President Sandro Pertini, who as a young republican firebrand had played a leading role on the republican side in campaigning against the monarchy and Umberto, urged the Italian Parliament to amend the constitution to let the King return to die in his homeland. However, before this could happen, Umberto died.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on October 08, 2005, 05:03:14 AM
The funeral for the last King of Italy was held in Savoy, but no member of the Italian Government attended. Looking back later, former Prime Minister Andreotti believed their absence a mistake and disrespectful to a decent and honourable man, who in different circumstances could have made a fine Italian king. But by the time he inherited the throne, the monarchy, through its association with Mussolini and fascism, had been fatally undermined. The 999-year reign of the Savoyards in various duchies and kingdoms, first in Northern Italy, then over the whole peninsula, had come to an end.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: veu on October 24, 2005, 03:27:01 PM
Pics of the most handsome prince ever and his sister Mafalda:

(http://www.grupponline.it/Foto%20per%20frontpage/Savoia-al-mare-1925.jpg)


Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: veu on October 24, 2005, 03:30:18 PM
Umberto and his sisters Jolanda, Mafalda and Giovanna:

(http://www.grupponline.it/Foto%20per%20frontpage/Principini.jpg)

Umberto and bodyguards:

(http://www.grupponline.it/Foto%20per%20frontpage/Savoia-al-mare.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 24, 2005, 09:19:29 PM
I heard a story that Maria Sophia (The last Queen of Naples, and great aunt of Marie Jose)  warned Marie Jose not to be marry into the House of Savoy, otherwise she would end up unhappy. Any truth there ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: veu on October 28, 2005, 11:06:51 AM
Photo of the beautiful queen Maria Josè:

(http://www.storiain.net/arret/num24/majo241a.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: veu on October 28, 2005, 11:12:18 AM
She was the most beautiful queen of Italy! She was also very popular in Italy!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 28, 2005, 11:17:36 AM
Very lovely pictures ! Thanks !

I heard the news that the jewels of the House of Savoy whom Queen Marie Jose put in the safe during WWII was to be returned to the family. I wonder what pieces will be in there. Also I have seen pictures that she still have tiaras and necklaces even after the jewels was confescated by the Italian goverment. were they new ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: veu on November 01, 2005, 02:09:54 PM
(http://www.aristidecaruso.it/mieisiti/Cartoline%20Antiche/images/Savoia009.JPG)

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: veu on November 01, 2005, 02:20:42 PM
(http://www.noveporte.it/taccuino/tau/FOTO/umberto.jpg)

(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/umberto2italy1904.jpg)

(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/umberto2italy1904-14.jpg)

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2005, 09:00:49 PM
He was certainly good looking. I think the princes of the house of Savoy was one of the best looking in the 30's.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Laura_ on November 21, 2005, 03:34:18 AM
how beautiful queen she was,her pleasant appearance reminds me of Missy of Romania-blond hair,blue eyes-i saw the movie"L'ultima Regina" several times,it is a great movie...does anyone have more photos of her??
Laura
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on November 26, 2005, 03:40:47 AM
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/carlo_3/UMBERTO%20%202/d1f35ba9.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on November 26, 2005, 03:41:13 AM
Maria Josè and Umberto in Libia.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on November 26, 2005, 03:41:32 AM
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/carlo_3/UMBERTO%20%202/aa9f0124.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on November 26, 2005, 03:42:06 AM
Maria Josè and Umberto during the official visit in Vaticano.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on November 26, 2005, 03:42:22 AM
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/carlo_3/UMBERTO%20%202/bc4d0a3c.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on January 15, 2006, 05:54:43 AM
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/carlo_3/UMBERTO%20%202/e2f27b07.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on January 15, 2006, 05:55:34 AM
Umberto II 1 year old.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on January 15, 2006, 05:56:00 AM
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/carlo_3/UMBERTO%20%202/2b0cc29e.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on December 09, 2006, 04:03:40 AM
IMHO, These letters solve the great dynastic crisis which the Italian Royal Family is going through at moment.

To me, now there are doubts: The Duke of Aoste is the current Head of the Family for his cousin the prince of Naples AUTOMATICALLY  LOST his rights when he married Marina Ricolfi Doria.

http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/letteredelre.htm (http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/letteredelre.htm)

Let me know what you think about it.

Gleb
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Agneschen on December 09, 2006, 05:35:29 AM
I absolutely agree. Regardless of the mess he is in today, Prince Vittorio Emanuele automatically lost his rights when he married a commoner according to the status of the Royal Italian family. I consider the Duke of Aosta / Savoia to be the head of the family and his son Aimone the lawful heir. Just a question - should Aimone not marry Princess Olga of Greece or should they marry in the end but have no children who would become head of the family ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Seth Leonard on December 09, 2006, 08:19:19 PM
The site has English translations of the letters...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on December 10, 2006, 05:58:41 AM

This is a very good question and to be sincere I don't think to have an answer.
To me the title would go to Prince Emanuele Filiberto, even if he is a commoner.

But let's hope they'll have a male baby! Anyway this engagement is lasting too much.




Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2006, 02:36:13 PM

The letters solve nothing.  The letters refer to a putative relationship between the Prince of Naples and another woman.  For another, private correspondence is exactly what it says: private.  There is nothing official about these letters.  For another, and the most important:  Umberto never made a single public statement regarding the status of his son's marriage.  He never said or gave the opinion that VE ceased to be heir.  He also gave his grandson a title.   

The Duke of Aosta -- the father of two illegitimate children - is certainly not in a position to make comments or leak correspondence (and we do not know if the letters are real.)

Wake me up when you find an official statement from Umberto - there is nothing at the time of the marriage or when his grandson was born. 

I also find it sad and strange that Umberto writes to his son after seeing stories in the media ... he obviously was not close to his son.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on December 13, 2006, 12:06:14 PM

The point is: in Casa Savoia there are some old rules, which the Prince of Naples did not follow ERGO he lost his rights. We don't need any official statement and the King knew this, there was no needing to create a new scandal becouse of it.
It is true he gave his grandson a title, but what title? Prince of Venice. So why didn't His Majesty use the title of Prince Of Piemont, as it would have been normal?

I think this fact was very simbolic and we have to think carefully about it.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: TampaBay on December 13, 2006, 12:27:03 PM
For those of us not up to speed, could someone please post the highlights of this rift, escapde and/or scandal?

Thanks
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Bernardino on December 15, 2006, 03:45:38 PM
Hello 

Interesting development ...

It seems King Umberto II felt he was bond by the old laws...so if he said nothing when he got the news that his son had married, one can make two readings:

a) he felt no need to speak, because he felt the law spoke for itself;

b) he accepted the marriage as dynastic.

Apparently Umberto made a mistake (IMHO) because he should and could have clarified the question...and his grandson title, which could terminate any doubts about the quality of the marriage, is also strange: for sure Umberto knew that the princely titles of Naples and Piedmont were to be use one after the other, i.e. after a Prince of Naples comes a Prince of Piedmont, and vice-versa...Or maybe he wanted to break with tradition, but why do it right then when they lived in exile...when it could be more important to keep the dynastic structure alive?

I don't know the reasons why Prince Amedeo kept silent all this time...Maybe he had no interest in being expelled from Italy...or maybe he felt his 'claim' would not be supported because most Italian monarchists would regard Vittorio Emanuele as the legitimate heir due to his father's silence...



Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on December 16, 2006, 11:39:50 AM
Hello Bernardino,

I think all the things you said are extremely right and well said.

To me the reason why Sua Maestà kept silent is the fact that He knew the Sabaudian monarchy had ended in 1946, for ever.

All the other matters were secondary: basically we ask ourselves who is the Head of the House? What else? Nothing, becouse sadly I think the Savoia will not have again a place in italian history (I mean history with H, as their ancestors did). Surely tabloids will speak about them (as they do now), but nor will do books, except registerig marriages, divorces ...

Besides let's remember that Umberto II was buried with the Royal Seal in His coffin. Every King should give it to his own heir.

Why did Umberto II not want to do so? Another question with no sure answer.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Bernardino on December 17, 2006, 05:11:37 PM

I was unaware the King had done so with the Royal Seal...that's interesting...probably he was conscious that by the 80s the Savoias had no chance of getting back their throne...it's sad...

Well...though not reigning anymore I think it's a good thing preserving the memory of their great past...

I have not taken yet a party in this Naples-Aosta question, and of course my opinion only is just that, an opinion.

But now I'm considering that King Umberto's silence is very/truly important...

Taking aside Vittorio Emanuele and Amedeo's personalities (not fan of either one)...
Taking aside the Prince of Naples 'non-equal' marriage...and ignoring the fact that the Duke of Aosta's first marriage for sure pleases me more (from the royal and dynastic point of view)...

I feel that the Prince of Naples marriage, which was contrary to the Savoiard tradition, needed very much a royal consent...as the King did not pronounce himself, one can assume that the House laws did not change...

The 'silence' argument that has been used to sustain Vittorio Emanuele's right to be the Head of the Royal House, can completely be the foundation of Amedeo's recent dynastic 'coup'...

Please can anyone convince me otherwise?



Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Bernardino on December 24, 2006, 06:09:23 PM

I was trying to make a joke of the french term 'coup d'État', the sudden overthrow of a government, because Amedeo came and kind of overthrone or is trying to overthrow his cousin Vittorio Emanuele...and as they are not sovereigns it has only dynastic effects, if any...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: pentetorri on December 29, 2006, 03:15:27 PM
I totally agree with the fact that Amedeo is the rightful heir. The laws of the House of Savoy are very clear so Umberto did not need to clarify or designate a heir. The fact that he gave the title of prince of Venice to his grandson is clear: his grandson was a "private citizen", a commoner, and granting a title, different to the one given to the heirs, meant he was considering his grandson a child from a morganatic marriage as it is the case of many morganatic marriages among royalty and the king or emperor grants some title to give them some rank. Not doing so meant  Emanuele Filiberto would have been "simply" known as Mr. Savoia.

Even if he had agreed to the marriage and he considered his son as the heir, he would have broken the Laws of the House of Savoia and  he should ( and could) have changed them expressly, which he did not do. Therefore, the laws stand and Mr. Vittorio Emanuele Savoia became a private citizen the moment he married Ms. Doria in Las Vegas. The letters are just documents to support what any serious historian knew about the feelings of His majesty Umberto II regarding his son. He did not need to make any statement as the laws were very clear and to save his son and his House anymore public embarassment. One more detail he did do what he said on the letter regarding his will, he left equal parts to his children with no preference for his son as it was customary with the Heir.

I find very distasteful judging people because of their marital affairs or out of marriage children, but saying that the letters could be a forgery is a serious accusation that should not be expressed lightly. Amedeo  is a honorable person and at least he is not accused as Vittorio Emanuele by his country's authorities of being a manager of prostitutes (Vittorio Emanuele is now called the Royal Pimp!!) and being jailed for other crimes. As the poster is a writer of some sorts she should know better.

Amedeo is taking now a clear position on this matter after the disgrace that Mr. Vittorio Emanuele Savoia has brought upon  his family. The House of Savoia needs "to clean house" and he is the only person qualify by the laws of his House to do so.

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Bernardino on December 31, 2006, 11:26:45 AM
Indeed Duke Amedeo has a much much better image than Vittorio Emanuele...

I can´t wait for Aimone's so long postponed marriage...it will be quite interesting to see whom the guests are if the marriage is going to be annouced as the wedding of the son and heir of Duke AMEDEO di SAVOIA...especially if there are many heads of other Royal Families...

Of course they are all cousins, but if some don´t want to support Amedeo's claim they can send other members of their families...

Just wondering...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Laura_ on March 09, 2007, 02:50:31 PM
pics of the young princess  :)

 (http://img166.imagevenue.com/loc241/th_72955_www.sandersofoxford.com_122_241lo.jpg) (http://img166.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=72955_www.sandersofoxford.com_122_241lo.jpg)

 (http://img165.imagevenue.com/loc266/th_73165_www.sandersofoxford.com_122_266lo.jpg) (http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73165_www.sandersofoxford.com_122_266lo.jpg)


 (http://img157.imagevenue.com/loc244/th_73224_www.sandersofoxford.com_122_244lo.jpg) (http://img157.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73224_www.sandersofoxford.com_122_244lo.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: britt.25 on March 10, 2007, 05:57:31 AM
She looks interesting and beautiful. Wasn´t she a Wittelbach descendant? Of one of Sisis siblings? I seem to remember it...I am bit too lazy to look it up again. But is it true?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 10, 2007, 08:22:15 AM
She looks interesting and beautiful. Wasn´t she a Wittelbach descendant? Of one of Sisis siblings? I seem to remember it...I am bit too lazy to look it up again. But is it true?

Marie José was the only daughter of Elisabeth Queen of Belgium. Elisabeth was the second daughter of Carl Theodor Duke in Bavaria and his second wife Marie José Infanta of Portugal-Braganza. It's quite obvious that Marie José was named after her maternal grandmother.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Lucien on March 10, 2007, 11:22:12 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/casasavoia/four.html

Courtesy Ademar.

 :)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: britt.25 on March 10, 2007, 12:08:30 PM
Thanks for your help @MarieCharlotte to clarify the family question ;) By the time I know it again... ;)

I have found to pictures on the genealogy sites:

One son of her and her grandson:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/veusav.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/emanuel6.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 11, 2007, 08:42:58 AM
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/emanuel6.jpg)

That's EMANUELE FILIBERTO (born 1972), only child of Maria José's only son Vittorio Emanuele. He is married to Clotilde Courau (born 1969) and has two daughters (Vittoria, born 2003 and Luisa, born 2006). And, by the way, he is a really handsome guy ...  :-*
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: ashdean on March 12, 2007, 08:52:53 AM
I have just been reading "Billy Baldwin:An autobiography" (with M.Cardine,Little,Brown.Boston 1985) in it he mentions a Baltimorean socialite Alice Garrett..who lived in Rome for some years pre WW2, with her diplomat husband.It seems Umberto used to visit her and try on her Parisian haute coture clothes....and as they were of the same stature they were a perfect fit !!!!.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Teddy on March 21, 2007, 01:44:33 PM
Wow Laurra, were did you get this stunning picture?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Laura_ on May 14, 2007, 07:50:40 AM

 :-[  cant remember exactly which pic ...could be this one

(http://static.flickr.com/73/188313599_c2c0b7886e.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 04, 2007, 07:53:47 PM
Although not happily married...I did not know what went wrong with their marriage ?  ???
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on June 06, 2007, 11:00:40 AM
Although not happily married...I did not know what went wrong with their marriage ?  ???

They loved each other in some way, but fascism wasted everything and the strict rules of Italian Royal Familiy made Maria Josè very sad and annoyed.

Anyway as their daughter Maria Beatrice said Maria Josè kept on loving Umberto II all her life long.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 06, 2007, 07:43:23 PM
It was a sad situation. Did any other women is involved ?  ???
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: veu-1 on June 07, 2007, 03:46:34 PM
Not! Any other woman is involved!

Gossip says that Umberto's first love was the soubrette Milly... but she isn't Umberto's mistress and she isn't involved in Umberto and Maria José's crisis ... Umberto was a very faithful husband and also his wife Maria José was very faithful!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on June 10, 2007, 09:32:05 AM
The Crown Prince Umberto of Italy :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/heir2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/umbuniform.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/umb2.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: miki_nastya on August 01, 2007, 02:17:33 AM
     It seems to me that she looks a litle  bitt with Mignon(Quen Marie of Yugoslavia). What do you think?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Lucien on August 07, 2007, 12:02:03 AM
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/000/167/966_Kerkgasten2.jpg

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on June 17, 2008, 07:18:00 AM
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/searchresults.aspx?entry=maria+gabriella&action=search&searchtype=p&searchFrom=header#entry=maria+gabriella&action=paging&searchtype=p&searchFrom=header&sid=dccbecdc-f500-4ddd-ba68-570cf20861ef&pg=1
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on June 17, 2008, 10:11:54 AM
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/searchresults.aspx?action=search&intSaleID=21428#action=search&intSaleID=21428
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: amedeo on June 17, 2008, 10:13:53 AM
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/searchresults.aspx?action=search&intSaleID=19996#action=search&intSaleID=19996
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Mari on June 18, 2008, 05:01:55 AM
Very interesting... Especially the Miniatures! My only regret is that they are not larger so I could study the faces closer! Thank you for the links!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 07, 2009, 06:51:55 AM
King Umberto II of Savoia.

(http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/43940/2121886550101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2121886550101857556eFUCFN)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 17, 2009, 11:15:35 AM

*Known as the "May Queen" of Italy...did the Italian monarchy end after she died?

The monarchy in Italy ended with the referendum of June 2, 1946.
Maria Josè died in 2001.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 17, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
I think the family ended the exile a few years ago right ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 18, 2009, 03:36:08 AM
I think the family ended the exile a few years ago right ?

Yes, you are right, the exile ended in 2002.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 20, 2009, 04:31:52 AM
Yes, they were a very beautiful couple...the last royal couple of Italy.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 22, 2009, 08:55:55 AM
We have many books about King Umberto II and the house of Savoy in general here in Italy (obviously), maybe there are versions translated in english.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 04, 2009, 04:42:07 AM
King Umberto II di Savoia

(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/16220/2392767260101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2392767260101857556libZGq)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on April 20, 2009, 05:19:32 PM
King Umberto II di Savoia

(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/7137/2609045230101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2609045230101857556tjQbOZ)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Rani on April 24, 2009, 01:38:53 PM
Does anyone know this movie??




http://www.international.rai.it/tv/programmi/scheda.php?id=290
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on April 24, 2009, 01:52:13 PM
Yes!, I have seen it!  :)...it's a very beautiful movie, it was transmitted on the Italian national channel RAIUNO.

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Rani on April 26, 2009, 03:13:19 PM
Yes!, I have seen it!  :)...it's a very beautiful movie, it was transmitted on the Italian national channel RAIUNO.

 

Great. Then I buy it. Thanks. I thought it is this typical bad historical movie.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on April 29, 2009, 05:00:06 AM
Yes!, I have seen it!  :)...it's a very beautiful movie, it was transmitted on the Italian national channel RAIUNO.

 

Great. Then I buy it. Thanks. I thought it is this typical bad historical movie.

You're welcome!, in my opinion it's a very good movie, and the actors are amazing.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on April 30, 2009, 02:09:40 PM

Great. Then I buy it. Thanks. I thought it is this typical bad historical movie.


That is exactly what the movie is like. Full of rumours and mistakes, I wouldn't it buy it, if I were you.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on April 30, 2009, 02:16:03 PM
Sincerely I'm not agree...I like this movie, but this is just my opinion...however I have to admit that I prefer reading a good book about King Umberto II and Queen Maria José  ;), and yes, there are a lot of mistakes too...this is true, but overall I like it.

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 04, 2009, 03:09:56 PM
(http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/43847/2712350880101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2712350880101857556OxBkkE)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Zukunftsseele on June 10, 2009, 04:23:01 PM
Some more pictures of the beautiful Marie Jose (I'm not sure whether they have been posted somewhere, so sorry if you already know some of those. Anyways, enjoy!)

Portrait by A. Huybers, 1915
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/AHuybers1915.jpg)


(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/jm.jpg)


(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/c70d05c1.jpg)


(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/jo.jpg)


Older Marie Jose:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/582px-Marie-Jos_of_Belgium.jpg)


(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/mj1.jpg)


(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/mariejose.jpg)


(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/mj1997.jpg)


Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 10, 2009, 04:50:47 PM
Some of the new pictures are new for me!  :) thank you!, this is the first time that I see the beautiful portrait of Huybers, do you know where is it now?, if it is in Belgium I'd like to see it the next time that I will go there...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Zukunftsseele on June 10, 2009, 05:14:09 PM
No, unfortunately I don't have any information about where it is now. Apparantly, it was sold at Christie's in 2007. http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4931374
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 10, 2009, 05:25:55 PM
It is from the collection of Princess Maria Gabriella di Savoia, I will do a search to find out where the original painting is now, I have a passion for portraits, thank you very much for the link!  ;)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 19, 2009, 10:08:40 AM
Some photos:

http://pro.corbis.com/Enlargement/Enlargement.aspx?id=SF37868&caller=search

http://pro.corbis.com/Enlargement/Enlargement.aspx?id=U798942ACME&caller=search

http://pro.corbis.com/Enlargement/Enlargement.aspx?id=0000376031-011&caller=search

http://pro.corbis.com/Enlargement/Enlargement.aspx?id=U871733BINP&caller=search

http://pro.corbis.com/Enlargement/Enlargement.aspx?id=U871733INP&caller=search
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 27, 2009, 07:17:41 AM
Young Umberto.

(http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/41969/2959547890101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2959547890101857556lvoLPv)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 27, 2009, 09:57:51 AM
(http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/43194/2469288710101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2469288710101857556oFPLgo)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 27, 2009, 09:59:46 AM
(http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/43602/2156790940101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2156790940101857556eWpbXz)
(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/40269/2334066850101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2334066850101857556NanslH)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 27, 2009, 10:12:32 AM
A portrait of King Umberto II

http://www.ilcastellodiracconigi.it/ita/personaggi/foto/im/umberto_II.jpg
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 03, 2009, 10:21:12 AM
(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/43448/2995957670101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2995957670101857556VTvnFv)
(http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/45466/2410758650101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2410758650101857556dmLelq)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 03, 2009, 10:22:25 AM
(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/45491/2111789490101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2111789490101857556hGGuZL)
(http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/22094/2660302240101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2660302240101857556ERdvMa)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 04, 2009, 12:30:52 PM
(http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/12436/2586531900101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2586531900101857556CoEhVl)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 05, 2009, 07:13:01 AM
(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/45309/2667807850101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2667807850101857556mTVGTa)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 18, 2009, 10:24:36 AM
Umberto II and Maria José at the inauguration of the hospital "Principessa di Piemonte" in Bergamo.

(http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/41911/2162447100101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2162447100101857556CbytiA)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on August 26, 2009, 10:54:56 AM
The Prince of Piemonte (future King Umberto II) with the famous Italian aviator Italo Balbo...sorry for the small size.

(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/43443/2340150480101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2340150480101857556KpEdlk)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Marc on October 03, 2009, 09:28:30 PM
Stunning picture of Princess Gabriella of Savoy:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/GabriellaSavoy.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Veronica on October 04, 2009, 07:36:30 PM
With Umberto(?) and?
[img width=160 height=92]
 (http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/4generations.jpg)

With Umberto, queen Marguerita and her mother Elisabeth of Saxony, duchess of Genoa
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Rani on October 21, 2009, 11:10:04 AM
(http://i36.tinypic.com/4gpwsh.jpg)
with Maria of Savoia


This pictures is very strange!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Svetabel on November 01, 2009, 05:57:49 AM
Maria Jose in 1935

(http://www.picatom.com/15/1935-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/15/1935-1.html)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 01, 2009, 08:25:02 AM
Wonderful portrait!, who is the author?...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2009, 10:23:55 AM
Thank you for posting the portrait ! Who was the painter ? I would love to see the clothing exhibition in Paris. When does it end ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 01, 2009, 10:25:08 AM
(http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/44818/2737020440101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2737020440101857556czJaEh)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 01, 2009, 10:39:14 AM
He was a very charismatic presence in military uniform, and also, I'm very curious to know his exact height, he dominates always everyone in all his photos...lucky him! :- )
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Svetabel on November 01, 2009, 12:11:39 PM
Wonderful portrait!, who is the author?...

I wish I knew...The catalogue doesn't mention this fact. :(
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 01, 2009, 01:14:12 PM
A pity that the catalogue didn't mentioned it, but no problem, thank you anyway. :- )
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 22, 2009, 03:45:42 AM
King Umberto II visit the Palace after the bombing of 1944.

(http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/42336/2736116970101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2736116970101857556SIuCOA)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 23, 2009, 07:23:37 AM
A photo of King Umberto II from an Italian web site: http://foto.alleanza-monarchica.com/sites/foto.alleanza-monarchica.com/files/images/img172_d_final.preview.jpg

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Learning on November 23, 2009, 08:57:47 AM
Which palace was bombed as shown in the photo above?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 23, 2009, 09:23:16 AM
Which palace was bombed as shown in the photo above?

Unfortunately I don't know exactly, the original caption didn't mentioned which palace exactly, but maybe it can be the Royal Palace of Naples.
The Royal Palace of Naples was seriously damaged during the bombing of the second world war...but I have to say that probably this can be another Palace that now I don't recognize...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on November 28, 2009, 05:24:16 AM
King Umberto II visit the Palace after the bombing of 1944.

(http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/42336/2736116970101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2736116970101857556SIuCOA)


That is Palazzo Te in Mantua, it was a favourite summer palace of the Gonzagas.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 28, 2009, 05:37:41 AM
Thank you very much gleb!, I visited Mantua a few years ago but I haven't visited the palace, I think that I should come back to Mantua and visit it, is this a museum now, right?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 28, 2009, 12:43:00 PM
I heard it was.

BTW where was Umberto buried ? Back in Rome ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 28, 2009, 01:42:45 PM
As far as I know he is buried at the Hautecombe Abbey, in France, Maria José she is also there.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 28, 2009, 02:03:10 PM
Any plans to rebury them in Italian soil ? In Sardinia or Turin at least ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 29, 2009, 03:49:09 AM
I think that there are no plans to rebury them here in Italy for now, or at least, I haven't heard nothing about it... :-\
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 30, 2009, 12:14:49 PM
Sad. At least they allow Queen Frederica of Greece to be buried in Tatoi. It would be nice to bring Umberto & Marie Jose back to Rome.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on November 30, 2009, 12:35:46 PM
Thank you very much gleb!, I visited Mantua a few years ago but I haven't visited the palace, I think that I should come back to Mantua and visit it, is this a museum now, right?

yes it is a museum, but it is not near the main monuments such as the Ducal Palace, so many tourists don't visit it, though it is absolutely worth of a visit.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on November 30, 2009, 12:39:59 PM
Sad. At least they allow Queen Frederica of Greece to be buried in Tatoi. It would be nice to bring Umberto & Marie Jose back to Rome.

it would be not only nice but fair, I mean he was the King of Italy so he should rest in the Pantheon. There were plans to bury them and VE III with Queen Elena in Turin, but Umberto II refused. The Kings and the Queens of Italy will be buried in Rome or they will remain where they are, something like this he said.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 30, 2009, 12:48:10 PM
It will depend on the son of Umberto on what he wants to do. The Kings of Italy were also Kings of Sardinia and Duke of Savoy. Turin would not be a bad place to be buried.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on November 30, 2009, 02:12:35 PM
Ex-King Umberto and Marie José during the famous cruise on Agamemnon in 1955 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/utomj.jpg)

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on November 30, 2009, 07:36:56 PM
Some photos:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAPx0PnDMDKq9q3kT6AMWw5CWHUBHcfnbrbqM6S0ccMhGokHKczWfNvXA4eK4aPJheYBQ37_Pm0A6z-cQTgvULugAm1T1UNzraXoL_S3ueMFtNg7sEkzeEnt6.jpg)

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAJ0ZZEijRwyUklxUPob2hpttpcSs2FxQaEfJ29gd_ctwFT4JqgesAqDWfNvMKdk5iojfUyGuqAGXSnp-9__Gsh0Am1T1UFz4svjqXlFAWNL87yX4lM_bQLU0.jpg)

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAMkEe0M2cbVj70r2JZ1oAAz-FGeZ2wwudfiDzWMYUcM0K4LZvtKPuasz216weFFgVLExKj5KCFkb4G_iZ1FiC2kAm1T1UIrxtntH9FybiAskL14liFgw7rMB.jpg)

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAADjwBpUPcOiv11XzL9GKx2QXVv1O_UccqW1WSvgpV0-XiXeySFkHVt16SJm4ET7M-2xMml925pzECdc8ZYNAgyEAm1T1UE_y_hAguCcYF00fmcDEaRqYd33W.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 03, 2009, 10:27:24 AM
The last one is Umberto II and Queen Frederica of Greece. I think Don Juan and Queen Ena is at the back. Wonder what occation that was ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on December 03, 2009, 12:49:36 PM
It said it was the wedding of Prince Henri at the Chapel of St. Louis... which Prince Henri I'm not sure...  :)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on December 05, 2009, 07:56:02 AM
Ex-King Umberto and Marie José during the famous cruise on Agamemnon in 1955 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/utomj.jpg)



Sorry but I made a mistake in the date. In reality the cruise on the Agamemnon took place during the summer of 1954.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on December 14, 2009, 10:23:51 AM
King Umberto II in Vatican

(http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/45479/2190191670101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2190191670101857556oumUXg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on December 21, 2009, 02:48:47 PM
Umberto, Marie José and their children :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/umbertofamily1946.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/mjumtoef.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/mariapiamariabeatricemjuve.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/family1947.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 21, 2009, 04:50:54 PM
Vittorio Emmanuele going to trial . The cause was a shooting where a man died (Dirk Hamer) in 1978. 1991

(http://i45.tinypic.com/1zd1wue.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Vecchiolarry on December 21, 2009, 05:50:53 PM
Hi,

It sure doesn't look good for the Crown Prince of Italy to appear in handcuffs!!
Doesn't he have another trial coming up - about a prostitution ring he ran?
He has certainly made a disgrace of his life...

Larry
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 22, 2009, 02:02:00 AM
and to his family aswell. the house of Savoy!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on December 22, 2009, 05:06:39 AM
Doesn't he have another trial coming up - about a prostitution ring he ran?
Larry

As far as I know, yes, he have another trial for prostitution affair.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 22, 2009, 08:47:51 AM
what a "jewel" for god s sake!. I was reading a bit about him and i was imnpressed of all the things he have done...wow,. poor umberto and Maria Jose =(
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on December 22, 2009, 11:17:58 AM
Umberto and Maria-José again:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAACRe5SgkZk833gSALEO3I3kRPe1tK4rRRsZfeL2OUL9A6g7mld6hadueP6R3G2G1ElBn1wWAtw2WwXFDPHMmALgAm1T1UP9AUR7M0l8UyDabwYVzT2vLGzc-.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on December 26, 2009, 12:07:38 PM
Queen Elena with three of her children :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/reineitalietenfants.jpg)

Little Umberto swinging :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/umbertobalalncoire.jpg)

King Victor Emmanuel III and Kaiser Wilhelm II :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/kaiserkingitaly.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 04, 2010, 10:24:02 AM
(http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/45113/2999513640101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2999513640101857556fhqRMd)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 04, 2010, 01:53:31 PM
I don't know exactly, my guess is around 1944, but I can't say for sure, and unfortunately I haven't found the photo in better quality. :- /
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 04, 2010, 05:55:36 PM
Looks like a newspaper photo.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 05, 2010, 04:43:34 AM
Yes, probably you're right.

Principe Umberto in L'Aquila, Abruzzo (the region where I live):

http://foto.alleanza-monarchica.com/principe-umberto-savoia-alle-esercitazioni-sperimentali-militari-in-abruzzo-laquila
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 05, 2010, 03:04:17 PM
You're welcome!, that is my favorite web site about History of Italian Monarchy, it's full of wonderful photos that I've never seen anywhere else.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 06, 2010, 01:48:45 PM
Yes, it's big, not like Turin, but big...and full of art and historical places, my favorite place it's Piazza Cairoli (Cairoli Square) with the monument of King Umberto I, and Ottolenghi Palace...but unfortunately I have seen it just in documentaries and books, I have visited Piemonte but I haven't visited Asti yet. :- (
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 08, 2010, 08:48:38 AM
Sorry for the small sizes.

(http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/43246/2659407270101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2659407270101857556ayGsNG)
(http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/46000/2774500570101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2774500570101857556HutAXK)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 09, 2010, 09:46:45 PM
Are you gone call Gabrielle Mr Lowe regarding these pictures?  ;) 
How tall was the King? Are we talking small size man here? He looks so tall but you never know. He is most of the time up on high heel.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 10, 2010, 04:26:52 AM
I don't know exactly how tall was Umberto II, but surely he wasn't less than 185 cm...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 10, 2010, 06:09:25 PM
I heard Marie Jose was taller than him, so she does not wear heels (especially in photos).
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 10, 2010, 08:31:01 PM
Yes dear Mr. Lowe I also read somewhere that the Belgium princess inherited the Saxe Cobourg feature. Her mother was small 5'1 as her clothing in Bruxelles Royal Palace shows it well. Is there any picture of Umberto in mourning suit?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 10, 2010, 09:08:36 PM
I have one of him at Carol's furneral. I put that in my first book...He was walking beside Zita...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 10, 2010, 11:29:49 PM
Not that one unfortunately, the one at the time of the SWW with the children.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 11, 2010, 02:17:32 PM
He looked good in suits and uniform. In the Spanish book on Baby Bee (Infanta Beatiz of Borbon-Orleans) there is a photo of him in swimming trunks lying beside some lady...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: JonC on January 22, 2010, 05:00:02 PM
Amedeo, could you please explain to me what is the nature of the crest, I believe it is a royal crest, you have next to your name.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2010, 03:07:37 PM
I wonder if there are books on Umberto II ? I know there are books on the Savoy family in conjuction with the events of WW II.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 24, 2010, 03:24:46 AM
I know some books on King Umberto II, but all in Italian language, I don't know if you can find English versions of them:

Giovanni Artieri - Umberto II il re gentiluomo.
(http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/45943/2554397940101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2554397940101857556cHxMBy)

Gianni Oliva - Umberto II, l'ultimo re
(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/38441/2400098030101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2400098030101857556ktMOkT)

Gigi Speroni - Umberto II, il dramma segreto dell'ultimo re.
(http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/41375/2130918890101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2130918890101857556SckcLw)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 24, 2010, 03:19:46 PM
I think that would be tough. Finding English edition of it.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 25, 2010, 04:09:24 AM
I did a little search around, as far as I have discovered, none of those books has been translated into English yet, it's a pity...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 25, 2010, 05:10:54 AM
Oh no I think its fine that no translation is available It urges the world to stick to mother tong and learn other language when body language is unavaible.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 25, 2010, 07:43:15 AM
looking from that prospective, yes, probably you're right.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 25, 2010, 12:09:26 PM
But yet I think Umberto seems avery interesting subject to research.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on January 25, 2010, 02:44:27 PM
You are also right, definitely he is a very interesting subject, it's surprising that there aren't books about him in English language anyway...I wonder why.
By the way, I particularly liked to read "Umberto II, il re gentiluomo" (Umberto II, the gentleman king) by Giovanni Artieri.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 26, 2010, 01:06:13 PM
Maybe someday if I have the time and energy I would write about him.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Rani on January 30, 2010, 11:00:43 AM
(http://i46.tinypic.com/1zdasg7.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 03, 2010, 11:00:15 AM
(http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/25191/2429220610101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2429220610101857556dufQuS)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 03, 2010, 11:35:42 AM
(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/25528/2756398130101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2756398130101857556GTmykT)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 04, 2010, 07:41:34 AM
(http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/34336/2341470470101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2341470470101857556meiImK)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 04, 2010, 10:09:31 AM
I wonder how many orders he had...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 04, 2010, 10:54:47 AM
I wonder how many orders he had...

Grand Master of the Supreme Order of Santissima Annunziata

Grand Master of the Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus

Grand Master of the Order of the Crown of Italy

Grand Master of Civil Savoy

Knight of the Grand Cross of the Order of the Star of colonial Italy

Knight of the Grand Cross of the Military Order Roman Eagle

Knight of the Order of the Golden Fleece (Spanish)

Knight of the Grand Cross of Honor and Devotion of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Malta

Knight of the Grand Bailiff of Justice of the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George

Knight of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem

Knight of the Grand Cross of the Order of the plate with Besa

Knight of the Grand Cross of the Order of Scanderbeg

Knight of the Grand Cross of the Order of St. Olav
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 04, 2010, 12:09:37 PM
Thanks ! That is an awesome list ! I guess he took pride in wearing them often, as in those posted photos.  ;)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 12, 2010, 09:42:30 AM
King Umberto II review the troops.

(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/44486/2029476780101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2029476780101857556OrEQhO)
(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/38060/2220287460101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2220287460101857556MeCghv)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 13, 2010, 04:33:34 AM
I think that it is an Infantry Colonel's uniform...right?...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 13, 2010, 11:17:06 AM
(http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/44963/2279842900101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2279842900101857556TaizDJ)

By the way, I have to add something to my post #104 about King Umberto's orders:

He also received the Grand Cross of the Black Eagle at the Berlin summer Olympics in 1936.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 13, 2010, 11:48:09 AM
Thanks ! Did he wore it in Berlin ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 14, 2010, 07:16:39 AM
I think so, precisely he received it during the ceremony of closure of the Berlin Olympics on August 16.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 15, 2010, 09:03:17 AM
You're welcome!

King Umberto II with Princess Maria Pia and Prince Vittorio Emanuele.

(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/46540/2368892400101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2368892400101857556ANyvGy)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 16, 2010, 07:04:11 AM
I have no idea, but I will try to find out.

King Umberto during the WWII:

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/45758/2311878950101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2311878950101857556CcWlUt)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 16, 2010, 12:26:06 PM
Nice. I often wondered how close Umberto II was with the Musolini regime and how much the monarchy suffered because of its association of it.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 16, 2010, 12:55:18 PM
I have often read that, actually, Mussolini haven't sympathy for Umberto, and probably the feeling of distrust was reciprocated by Umberto.
It's also know that Umberto detested Hitler with all his soul.
Monarchy and Fascism coexisted, but not in a relaxed climate.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 16, 2010, 01:00:02 PM
Yes. I Think Hitler did not have much respect for the Savoys. His treatment of Umberto's sister Madfalda was an example.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 18, 2010, 04:40:23 AM
Elderly Umberto with Pope Giovanni Paolo II.

(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/45271/2608453630101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2608453630101857556FSFOpr)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 18, 2010, 10:09:26 AM
Wow ! Thanks for posting this rare photo. Umberto looked frail here. It was taken in the ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 18, 2010, 10:30:05 AM
It should have been taken just a few years before his death, my guess is around 1980.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 18, 2010, 10:31:38 AM
I suspected the 80's on the age of the pope. Thanks for the confirmation.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on February 24, 2010, 09:02:59 AM
Quote
Umberto looked frail here. It was taken in the ?

I'm almost sure it was taken in Lisbon on May 14th 1982, during Pope's journey in Portugal.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on February 24, 2010, 09:20:12 AM
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/noloter/umbII.jpg)
H.M. Humbert II during his official visit in Vitulano (a village near Benevento, Italy) in early 30's (at that time he was still Prince of Piedmont).

(I'm sorry for the poor quality, but the original picture I scanned is just 2.5x3 inches.)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 26, 2010, 04:50:10 AM
King Umberto II, Princess Maria Pia and Prince Vittorio Emanuele, it should be taken on the same day of the photo that I have posted in reply #113

(http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/46848/2415007800101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2415007800101857556ZxYIjH)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 27, 2010, 11:23:35 AM
A portrait.

(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/44995/2997196440101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2997196440101857556QpnvJJ)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2010, 11:49:07 AM
An elegant one ! Is it in Italy now ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 27, 2010, 12:13:00 PM
Unfortunately I don't know, I know some other portraits of Umberto that are here in Italy, but those are all from the time when he was Prince of Piemonte and (after) King, maybe it can be kept somewhere in Portugal?... I'm also curious to know who was the painter...

King Umberto among people.
(http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/46950/2232949990101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2232949990101857556MrfTAM)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on February 28, 2010, 04:52:15 AM
The love and the admiration for him was present in many Italians, but in that time the "Republican Front" that wanted to change Italy was becoming stronger.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 01, 2010, 03:33:32 PM
Sad. It must be shocking for him to see the people turn against him in an election. Especially when he was accusomed to displays of affection by the people.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 01, 2010, 07:05:49 PM
Well, actually it's not clear yet, after almost 70 years, if republicans won or not the referendum in 1946; many people weren't allowed to vote such as Italian war prisoners abroad and people in Lybia (North-African coasts were still part of the Kingdom of Italy, on the streght of a law approved in 1936, as Italy renounced its rule on Lybia only in 1947 because of the Peace Treaty), in Trentino Alto-Adige and in Istria wich were strongly pro-monarchy regions. Moreover expecially in Northen Italy, were they were stronger, communists/republicans de facto forbade monarchist electoral campaign by violence (they even forced people, in some cases, to vote for Republic); it's a fact that Monarchy got a huge amount of votes in Southern and Central Italy, while Republic got almost all of its votes in Northen Italy.
At first they said Morchy had won, and it was even referred to Pope Pius XII in Vatican Ciity. But communists/repubblicans threatened other political forces by promising civil war if Republic would had lost the referendum; Giuseppe Romita, a socialist leader said "Or Republic, or caos". At night De Gasperi and other political leaders went to King Humbert II annuncing Monarchy had lost the referendum. King Humbert asked a recount but Supreme Court, thretened and scared by communists/republicans, declared itself unable either to accept or reject King's request; however Supreme Cout had still to officially proclame electoral results, as provided for law. Not waiting for Supreme Court's declaration, Government - being too scared of a possible recounting wich could have been favourable to Monarchy - declared Monarchy's fall and Republic's birth; according to law, this action's considered as a coup d'état (let's think that during that night, Ministers, many communist/socialist political men and even Prime Minister De Gaspery didn't sleep at their home as they feared they could have been arrested by Royal Carabinieri  as traitors, and so thay slept at friends' home).
As Americans told him they didn't want to take Monarchy's side, and as he didn't want to make Italy fall into civil war again, King Humbert II left his homeland forever; soon before his leaving, he said harsh words against repubblicans and Government but invited people to stay quiet and stop violence.
Soon after King's leaving, ballot-papers were destroyed, so we'll never know if Republic really won the referendum or not.

Prime Minister De Gasperi once said of King Humber II that "he would have been a perfect President of the Republic".


[I'm sorry for my almost-OT post :-P]
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 02, 2010, 11:13:04 AM
Well...I don't think it is OT. Umberto II's citcumstances of leaving Italy was a bit muddled. The ban on his decendents returning was even more bogus. It is high time to reopen the legality of this election or wether the last king of Italy was a victim of circumstances. Wallis, Duchess of Windsor once said "at least David went by his own accord, he was not kicked out (refferring to Umberto II) !".
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 02, 2010, 02:36:41 PM
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Wallis, Duchess of Windsor once said "at least David went by his own accord, he was not kicked out (refferring to Umberto II) !".
Unfortunately Italians (and I'm deeply ashamed to say that because I'm Italian myself) usually tend to shift their own blames on a single person; they did it with Mussolini despite full many of them had been by his side untill 1943, they did it with King Humbert II despite he had committed absolutely nothing that deserved him to be kicked off except being Victor Emmanuel III's son (some people think that's a sufficient reason, how preposterous), and they still do it nowadays. They got every benefits while it was possible, and then they rejected every responsability, so they could always say they were clean, they were right. Too many people still ignores that even Alcide De Gasperi (who was Prime Minister both in the last days of Monarchy and in the beginning of Republic, and is still considered the father of modern Italy), Enrico De Nicola and Giovanni Gronchi (both of them became President of the Italian Republic) supported Mussolini's Governement by giving their Vote of Confidence in Parliament, and that Gronchi himself became a member of said Governement having been appointed Undersecretary (a kind of vice-minister). But despite all this, they managed to appear as strong antifascists (and so, respectable people) after Mussolini's fall; actually full many people tried to appear as antifascists while they had supported Mussolini...many of them started to support socialists or communists, then, and so they could get their lives spared as some communist partisans used to kill who had been involved with fascism.
Soon after Republic's birth, Governement (by Palmiro Togliatti's suggest, who was the main Italian communist leader and Minister of Justice under De Gasperi) approved an amnesty for all people who had been involved with fascism; they appeared as merciful and benevolent, but actually they were forced to do that, as too many people had been involved with fascism and they simply couldn't arrest more than half Italy! There were too many!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fascism supporter; it's just I don't like hypocrisy. Italians made Humbert II pay for their own faults, and that's just unfair.

Quote
It is high time to reopen the legality of this election or wether the last king of Italy was a victim of circumstances.
Unfortunately in Italy, people who dare to rise doubts about Referendum's regularity are unfairly labelled as reactionaries, fascists and revisionists. Communist/republican propaganda is still strongly effective, and for this reason there's a kind of one and only thought among both Historians and common people; who has a different thought has to be punished, has to be excluded, has to be blamed, has to be made unable to speak. You know, there's a famous Italian journalist/writer/historian named Giampaolo Pansa, who some years ago wrote some books about Italian Civil War and the years soon after Mussolini's fall; well, despite he's still openly left-winged, as he wrote about comunist partisans violence against innocent people (including violence against monarchist during referendum electoral campaign) he's been de facto excluded from historians community, and extreme-left-winged supportes boycott his books in book-shops or impede him to speak at seminaries/conferences by shouting and insulting him during his speaches.
Nobody can dissent from their imposed-thought. It's sad, but it's true.

[Ok, now my post's really OT; I'm sorry, but I had something to say]
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 02, 2010, 02:53:10 PM
I agree that it seems that Umberto II was unfairly punished.  :(

Wow ! You made Italy sound like the Soviet Union or the state in 1984 ! Really...If that is the case, there is no freedom of expression. Very scary.  :o
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 02, 2010, 06:10:38 PM
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Wow ! You made Italy sound like the Soviet Union or the state in 1984 ! Really...If that is the case, there is no freedom of expression. Very scary.  Shocked
Um...may be it's possible I exaggerated a little bit...I know, by reading what I wrote things could seem worse than they really are! May be I expressed myself the wrong way...
But it's true there's a lor of disinformation (and misinformation) in Italy because of communist/republican propaganda. You know, while Christian Democracy (the center-winged party wich ruled Italy from 1946 to 1993) and other center-left-winged parties (such as Socialist Party) or center-right-winged parties (such as Liberal Party - in Italy Liberal has the opposite meaning than in USA) were too busy with Economy and Industial affairs, the whole cultural sector was occupied by Communist Party. It egemonized Italian cultural world and imposed its own thought about History, Art, etc; almost all of Italian directors, writers, musicians/singers, journalists and historians have left-winged sympaties. Let's think that in 60's-70's, scolastic History books described URSS as a beautiful and liberal place where everyone was free and happy, and untill very recentely History books never said anything about the Italian extermination by communist Yugoslavians in Istria wich appened between 1943 and 1947; clearly communist historians wanted to hide communist crimes. You know, Italian democratic forces were too scared of a communist revolution, and so they almost let communists do what they wanted in order to make them stay quiet.
But of course there's freedom of expression in Italy, just like in UK, USA, France, Germany, etc, don't get me wrong! Italy's a free country, too free I dare say. It's just that, if your thought is different from their thought, you have to fight strongly to express it. Only recently, since 15-10 years ago, not-allineated writers/historians/journalists's work has been taken seriously by Cultural world. That's why we now have a lot of fair books about House of Savoy and it's members.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on March 02, 2010, 06:31:26 PM
Don't worry about being off-topic, Noloter. This kind of background information is much more interesting than an endless parade of formal postcards of 19th century royals who all look the same.

You know, while Christian Democracy (the center-winged party wich ruled Italy from 1946 to 1993) and other center-left-winged parties (such as Socialist Party) or center-right-winged parties (such as Liberal Party - in Italy Liberal has the opposite meaning than in USA) were too busy with Economy and Industial affairs, the whole cultural sector was occupied by Communist Party. It hegemonized Italian cultural world and imposed its own thought about History, Art, etc;
This is a very interesting observation, as it to a certain degree could be said to apply to much of the rest of Western Europe too, I would say. In the absence of real, economic power (in the Marxist sense), the extreme left has been satisfied with "ideological power".
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 02, 2010, 07:24:43 PM
I totally agree with you on that. People outside cannot understand why the ban on the family of the House of Savoy is still in effect when Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania welcome their former rulers to stay in their country. Those WERE former communist countries !  :o
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 03, 2010, 09:05:20 AM
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Don't worry about being off-topic, Noloter. This kind of background information is much more interesting than an endless parade of formal postcards of 19th century royals who all look the same.
Thanks, I'm relieved now; I was fearing I could be reproached for being OT :-P

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People outside cannot understand why the ban on the family of the House of Savoy is still in effect
Actually the ban was removed in 2002; it needed a constitutional amendment, as the ban on House of Savoy had been part of Italian Republic's Constitution since its birth. I remember many Italian communists (and many republican fundamentalists) strongly contested that amendment at that time; they made demonstrations, insulted House of Savoy's members and accused Governement of being fascist (you know, they still think that monarchists are all fascists...how preposterous!). But Italy was somekind forced to remove said ban, as it violeted human rights according to ECHR (European Court of Human Rights). So I was very very surprised when I found out that former King of Bulgaria had been elected Prime Minister by his compatriots.

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Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania welcome their former rulers to stay in their country. Those WERE former communist countries !  Shocked
You know, people who lived in communist countries now hate communism and don't undestand why there still are so many people who supports that horrible totalitarian ideology (every totalitarian ideology, both right-winged and left-winged, is horrible to me)! It's easy saying "I'm pro-communism!" while you're living in one of the freest countries in the world where you can say/do/think whatever you want with no risk of being imprisoned/killed! I met some people from Eastern Europe (Romania, Ukraina...) who lived the dark times of communist dictatorship in their countries, and they told me exactly what I'm saying here.  
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 03, 2010, 10:38:25 AM
I remember many Italian communists (and many republican fundamentalists) strongly contested that amendment at that time; they made demonstrations, insulted House of Savoy's members and accused Governement of being fascist (you know, they still think that monarchists are all fascists...how preposterous!).

Well, Communists here are so good in making ridiculous demostrations, they are always ready to "rewrite" history...it's very well know that, as I said in one of my previous posts, Mussolini detested Umberto II, although they coexisted, there has never been a real strong union between Monarchy and Fascist regime...definitely Monarchists are not Fascists.
The fact that we had our former royals still in exile in the early 2000s was a shame, the Government had made the right choice.

You know, people who lived in communist countries now hate communism and don't undestand why there still are so many people who supports that horrible totalitarian ideology (every totalitarian ideology, both right-winged and left-winged, is horrible to me)! It's easy saying "I'm pro-communism!" while you're living in one of the freest countries in the world where you can say/do/think whatever you want with no risk of being imprisoned/killed! I met some people from Eastern Europe (Romania, Ukraina...) who lived the dark times of communist dictatorship in their countries, and they told me exactly what I'm saying here.

Well said! ;- )
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 03, 2010, 04:19:34 PM
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there has never been a real strong union between Monarchy and Fascist regime...definitely Monarchists are not Fascists.
You are completely right, RomanovsFan4Ever.
As a matter of fact, Fascism's a strongly republican ideolgy; a real fascist (there still are fascists in the world, by the way? I think there aren't) would never tell you he's a monarchist. It's well known that Mussolini had been openly anti-monarchy since he was a socialist (he was even imprisoned in his early years, as he was considered him a subversive). When he became Prime Minister of Italy, he hid his republican sentiment as he thought Monarchy was only a useful tool for his Fascist Revolution, but he secretely despised Victor Emmanuel III (it's well known that Mussolini did everything he could in order to damage King Victor in his powers and his prerogatives) and above all Humber II, who never hid his aversion to Mussolini privately; and Mussolini, knowing all that, despised Humber almost more than he despised Victor Emmanuel. So much so he was intentioned not to accept a future succession from V.E.III to Humb.II to Italy's throne preferring Amedeo 3rd Duke of Aosta (who had fascist sympaties), he openly said that to his closest followers a lot of times (as count Galeazzo Ciano reported in his memories, if I'm not mistaking). After having been deposed and arrested in July 25th 1943, he resumed his anti-monarchy sentiment as he considered King Victor nothing but a traitor. The first anti-monarchy and anti-Savoy propaganda (the so called "King's flee" and many other lies about House of Savoy, for istance) started with Italian Social Republic's birth, as Mussolini wanted to convince Italians to join him against Allies and King Victor; communists/republicans simply resumed all of fascist lies about Monarchy during the referendum electoral campaign, and then they wrote said lies in History books for almost sixty years untill very recently.
Thinking it out, it's a paradox that today communists/republicans accuse monarchist of being fascists, while just fascists should be the real anti-monarchists...! :-P
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 03, 2010, 08:51:18 PM
I agree. Maybe the true story of King Umberto II can be said. I heard a movie had been made on Umberto II's sister Malfada (Princess of Hesse). I wonder was it shown in Italy and was it popular ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 04, 2010, 09:22:28 AM
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I heard a movie had been made on Umberto II's sister Malfada (Princess of Hesse). I wonder was it shown in Italy and was it popular ?
I don't know about a movie, but I know about an Italian TV Serie on Princess Mafalda's tragedy. It went on the air in 2006 on Rai Uno (the main Italian public TV channel), and Princess Maria Gabriella of Savoy collaborated with the director due her historical knowleges (she's a somekind of autority abouth House of Savoy's History) while Clotilde Courau (Prince Emanuele Filiberto's wife) was part of the acting cast.
However the whole TV Serie showed King Victor Emmanuel III as a very cold man who didn't care for her daughter at all, as if he didn't want to do anything to save her, as if her death was only his fault (how untrue!). But, you know, as I said before you must always say Savoys are all bad, viles, cowards and evils...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 04, 2010, 09:28:49 AM
Yes. Although Princess Mafalda was also a member of the House of Savoy and heroine of the story. I wonder wasit well recieved in Italy ? Who played her brother Umberto II ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 04, 2010, 11:04:28 AM
As they think her personal tragedy was her father's fault, Mafalda's the only House of Savoy's member of whom Historians speak well; she's always wrongly depicted as an somekind of anti-Savoy, a woman who felt being different from her relatives. Speaking well of Princess Mafalda means speaking bad of Victor Emmanuel III for those people.

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I wonder wasit well recieved in Italy ?
I don't precisely remember, but I think it got a lot of success. However I must correct myself: it went on the air on Canale 5, not on Rai Uno, I'm sorry for my mistake.

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Who played her brother Umberto II ?
It was Emanuele Fortunati, an Italian theatrical player.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/noloter/emanuelefortunati.jpg)

Some other main actors were:
Stefania Rocca as Princess Mafalda of Savoy: http://www.fctp.it/media//film/208_standardphoto_1.jpg (http://www.fctp.it/media//film/208_standardphoto_1.jpg)
Johannes Brandrup, a German actor, as Prince Philipp of Hesse: http://mauriziozaccaro.myblog.it/album/mafalda-di-savoia/1998091891.JPG (http://mauriziozaccaro.myblog.it/album/mafalda-di-savoia/1998091891.JPG)
Carlo Dogliani as King Victor Emmanuel III: http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/noloter/carlodogliani.jpg (http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/noloter/carlodogliani.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 04, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Thanks for the information. I so appreciate it as do most who do not have the pleasure of viewing it. I wonder if it got shown in Germany ? I hope the family of Savoy and Hesse was happy with the portrayal of their mothers & fathers.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 04, 2010, 05:39:56 PM
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I wonder if it got shown in Germany ?
Unfortunately I don't know...but I fear it was never shown in Germany or other countries; it was a just Italian production, a two-episodes TV Serie made by pourpose for Italian audience. But of course it's possible some foreign networks did buy broadcasting rights...it happened before.

However, if some of you are interested in it, I found the TV trailer of said TV Serie "Mafalda di Savoia - Il coraggio di una principessa" (Mafalda of Savoy - The courage of a princess) on youtube.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98s8eAkYLTk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98s8eAkYLTk)
It's not much, I know, but that's all I could do. After all, it would be impossible finding the whole TV Serie on the Net...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 04, 2010, 08:48:11 PM
Thanks for the link. There is another that show the whole series in 18 parts. I saw the first part...it was powerful. Sorry for OT.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 06, 2010, 04:51:14 AM
Thinking it out, it's a paradox that today communists/republicans accuse monarchist of being fascists, while just fascists should be the real anti-monarchists...! :-P

Yes, it's a real big paradox...it should be caused by a lack of knowledge of history, or since Fascism no longer exist, they need a "scapegoat" to consider as "Fascist", who knows?

Returning to Umberto II, it's odd to see that many people now are always ready to depict him as a "criminal", but when you try to ask to them what he did of so bad, they cannot give a real exhaustive explanation, but just the same vague answers.

A man who was against all dictatorial regimes of that time surely was not a "criminal"...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 06, 2010, 08:58:38 AM
I don't think Umberto II was a criminal. However he was not anti-fasist too, he sought to live with them. Unlike Princess Andrew of Greece, he did not saved the Jews there.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 06, 2010, 09:25:02 AM
The situation here in Italy was different than there in Greece, those horrors called "racial laws" were introduced here in Italy by the Fascist Regime (that was of course allied with the Nazi regime) in 1938, Umberto could not do anything to prevent it, since tecnically the power was in Mussolini's hands.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 06, 2010, 09:28:03 AM
I think Princess Andrew of Greece hid the Jews in her house (out of danger to herself) and contact underground to smuggle them out. She would have been deported to a concentration camp had she been found out. Umberto II was not that brave and would not risk that much for the innocent.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 07, 2010, 06:34:36 AM
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I don't think Umberto II was a criminal. However he was not anti-fasist too, he sought to live with them. Unlike Princess Andrew of Greece, he did not saved the Jews there.
Well I don't think that not saving jews means not being anti-fascist. Queen Marie-Josè, for istance, didn't save any jew but she was an anti-fascist.

It's not a matter of braveness, to me. Greece's situation was far different from Italy's. Greece was under German military occupation, and nazis were everywhere in the country hunting jews; while Italy had been almost free from nazis untill 1943, and so people didn't really know about Italian jews' conditions under racial laws. Moreover, nazis thought Princess Andrew was their supporter as one of her sons-in-law was a member of the Nazi Party, so she was a kind of above-every-suspect person and she took advantage of that (don't get me wrong, I hold Princess Andrew's actions in high esteem); while Prince Humbert, as he never hid his lack of simpathy for fascist regime (and, above all, for Mussolini) too much, he was a kind of kept under special surveillance person by OVRA (in short, Mussolini's personal service secret), and he knew that. As a matter of fact, he even tried to start a kind of plot against Mussolini (as Lord Edward Halifax, who knew all that by an Italian high diplomat, repeports in his memories) helped by Grandi and count Ciano (and, possibly, by Marshall Badoglio) but Gestapo found it out and informed Mussolini; however Mussolini couldn't do anything against Crown Prince who wasn't openly compromised, but Ciano, Grandi, Bottai and Senise were all removed from their charges. Humbert was also a well-known anti-nazi (he was also in close relationships with Pope Pius XI, who strongly condamned Hitler's regime with his encyclical letter Mit brennender Sorge); he detested Hitler and he showed his despise for nazi-regime during Hitler's visit in Rome in 1938, so he was considered "dangerous" by Gestapo too.

You must remember that Humber had been educated to obbedience and respect for superiors since he was a little child, and that it was almost unthinkable to him revolting against his father or the regime; a famous quote of House of Savoy says "I Savoia regnano uno alla volta" (Savoys reign one at a time). And, above all, Humber was the Crown Prince, and so he couldn't compromise himself too much as he had very many responsabilities and duties before his Country and his People to risk of living them without a future King.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 07, 2010, 10:40:14 AM
Queen Maria José as inspector of the Red Cross.

(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/46761/2587859410101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2587859410101857556abYTLi)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 07, 2010, 11:36:57 AM
I love that one. I colorized it thw last week *0*

Here another in uniform

(http://i49.tinypic.com/kcbh2f.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 08, 2010, 04:46:49 AM
Umberto in his deathbed with his wife Marie Jose and children:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAFWZicvSrY_RxyArVaGVnrmr4fr0ZVUfbf_R84SZE_D3rdS260iJb69pzlyYlWUwDdR5UA2APs0RgV1SUipuyg4Am1T1UNxGuWUT3_kb3pQZNUkY1CbBg0bi.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 08, 2010, 04:49:22 AM
Umberto with his mother in Alexandria, Egypt in 1947:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OQAAANn2n57ilqdOCN2AjjSwRHp_TQC1cqoIc-K_8DajyfgErTUwYK538rz399WvuxWMcFxBIgUiofzF6Km9nMXgMIwAm1T1UJM_45akEvouzoLzijI166w2Xmgt.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 08, 2010, 12:13:20 PM
Once I read that at the moment of his death, just a nurse was present in his room, if this is true, it's sad that his family wasn't present at that moment. :- (
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 08, 2010, 12:52:58 PM
Candid of Maria Jose & Umberto

(http://i48.tinypic.com/4v5w75.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 08, 2010, 04:27:41 PM
Once I read that at the moment of his death, just a nurse was present in his room, if this is true, it's sad that his family wasn't present at that moment. :- (

Yes, it kind of feels odd that the entire family was there for his death. He was still in Cascais, right?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 08, 2010, 05:58:15 PM
Queen Elena remained attractive in old age. I wonder when the photo was taken ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 08, 2010, 06:01:22 PM
I can't believe I've posted the same picture twice! :D

Here's the one with the Pope:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OQAAAIXMPrkHImiT7lk93x4iFS-MIRXsTpSJvQUT7K5Pv_mTWKAVBa3R9OwEZxVQLhiflZyls6U3vsAh-G1iP2xafy8Am1T1UDLiJUmkfs7q90N3g58imjGF1gxV.jpg)

The picture with his mother was taken in Alexandria in 1947.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 08, 2010, 06:09:14 PM
Thanks ! It must not be easy for Umberto II to go back to Italy...but Vatican is a seperate country. Was he flown in ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 09, 2010, 03:20:27 AM
He was in Geneva, Switzerland, he was transferred there from London just a few days before his death.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 09, 2010, 07:23:14 AM
Actually, he met the Pope in Lisbon in 1982.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 09, 2010, 07:24:50 AM
I didn't know that!  :D

Thanks for the information!  :)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 09, 2010, 09:55:17 AM
Thanks ! I didn't know that. Did Umberto II got to be buried in Italy ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Noloter on March 09, 2010, 12:26:43 PM
Quote
Thanks ! I didn't know that. Did Umberto II got to be buried in Italy ?
Unfortunately (and shamely, I dare say) he didn't. Communists/Republicans didn't allow him to be buried in his homeland, despite his whole family, some Italian political personalities and even President Alessandro Pertini (who had been a socialist partisan during 1943-1945, and was President of the Italian Republic in when King Humbert died) asked for that at that time. Recently someone brought up again that question, but Communist/Republicans still do everything to prevent Humber II's burial in Italy; may be they still fear him even if he's dead...who knows...

King Humbert II and King Victor Emmanuel III (who's been buried in Alexandria of Egypt, where he died in 1947) deserve to rest in peace among their ancestors (King Victor Emmanuel II and King Humbert I) inside the Pantheon in Rome!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 09, 2010, 01:32:47 PM
At the very least, he should be able to be buried in Turin, where the Savoy family used to live. It is very mean to deny a person to be buried in his homeland. Guess maybe they will have to sue to the EU courts to force the Italian government to submit.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 31, 2010, 04:27:56 AM
Umberto and Maria Jose in exile in Cascais (Portugal), December 1948.

(http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/46960/2834614060101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2834614060101857556QVAMqE)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on March 31, 2010, 04:32:58 AM
(http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/45136/2858308990101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2858308990101857556rMrYLT)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 31, 2010, 06:38:43 AM
Umberto

(http://i36.tinypic.com/9r3ypt.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on April 01, 2010, 09:49:53 AM
I don't know if this has been posted before, but here's a picture of the house in which Umberto spent his exiled years in Cascais:

(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/35/e0/fd/cascais.jpg)

Nowadays it's a hotel named "Grande Real Villa Itália"  :)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Sara Araújo on April 01, 2010, 11:00:26 AM
Yes, it's very close to Lisbon. It's considered a high class city, although that has been changing a lot in the last few years. King Carlos had his own house there and almost every picture you see of him on a beach was taken in Cascais. Juan Carlos of Spain still has a house there too, closer to the city center.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Bourgogne on April 12, 2010, 04:22:36 PM
Thanks. They looked lovely in beach wear. He was very handsome. There is another photo of him in swim trunks in the Spanish book on Baby Bee.

Yes, King Umberto was very hansome.

Especially when he was young (around 1930). Margherita Sarfati, Mussolini's jewish mistress, who knew the prince very well at this time (when she was made lady-in-waiting of Queen Helena), wrote in her Mémoires that "the prince of Piemont had the beauty of a young god from Hollywood"!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on April 16, 2010, 12:07:14 PM
Marie jose was truly one of the princesses most sophisticated and elegant of this time.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 16, 2010, 12:22:56 PM
She got the Wittelsbach flair ! She was not the grand niece of Sisi for nothing.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on April 21, 2010, 03:24:29 PM
Umberto, Marie José and family :

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_220610mjocvum.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=220610mjocvum.jpg)

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_985847mariejosumb.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=985847mariejosumb.jpg)

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_620553mjsu.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=620553mjsu.jpg)

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_322804umbjo.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=322804umbjo.jpg)

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_828006mjauo.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=828006mjauo.jpg)

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_664640newking.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=664640newking.jpg)

(http://img7.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_638643rf.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=638643rf.jpg)

Click on thumbnails for enlarge them.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on April 27, 2010, 04:18:27 AM
The arrival of His Royal Highness Prince Umberto in Trieste square in Crema (Lombardia region, northern Italy).

(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/11512/2226079530101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2226079530101857556qzhKbk)(http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/44712/2132022260101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2132022260101857556JFxEUU)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Bourgogne on May 19, 2010, 09:43:41 AM
I agree...people used artificial insemination due to a host of reasons, and some not because of sexual orientation at all. Both Umberto and Marie Jose were attractive and sexy looking indivuals and there is no reason why they could not attempt to make love. The children are the proof. How deep is that love is open to interpretation aswe cannot see through closed doors. For example Ernst of Hesse was gay, but he still managed to beget three children (one by his first and two by his second). According to Ducky's (Ernst's first wife) letters to her sister Crown Princess Marie of Romania, she was most reluctant "to try one more time (to get a male heir) with her husband".

Of course, from Monsieur, Louis XIV's brother, to Ernest of Hesse, including Johann of Thurn-and-Taxis or King Edward II of England (and so on, and so on...), they all were able to have beautiful children, and by themselves...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 19, 2010, 11:33:38 AM
Yes. Umberto II was a handsome man and no wonder person of either sex find him attractive.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Bourgogne on May 19, 2010, 04:25:01 PM
Yes. Umberto II was a handsome man and no wonder person of either sex find him attractive.

Exactly, like I said before, Margherita Sarfatti wrote in her "Mémoires" that Umberto was handsome like an Hollywood actor, and that's true. He's got something like actors of that time, Rudolf Valentino, Tyrone Power, all that...
In my opinion that comes from her mother, who gave him this balkan "tall, dark and handsome" beauty.
The house of Savoy was not especially known for the beauty of his members. And moreover, VE III was almost a dwarf, physically a little degenerate...
But with the blood of Montenegro, which was not really a true old royal family, the "time-worn" blood of the Savoy was regenerated... And that gave a beautiful result!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 20, 2010, 11:29:23 AM
Yes. The children of Umberto II and Marie Jose are also attractive. The current prince looks like a celeberty (dancing competition). Yes QV said "the strong dark blood is needed."
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on May 21, 2010, 04:26:57 AM
Umberto during the exile in Portugal.

(http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/1284/2091331730101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2091331730101857556uDIErn)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on May 21, 2010, 04:30:13 AM
Umberto among children.

(http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/3663/2897815680101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2897815680101857556gGbixw)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on May 21, 2010, 10:48:25 AM

The house of Savoy was not especially known for the beauty of his members. And moreover, VE III was almost a dwarf, physically a little degenerate...
But with the blood of Montenegro, which was not really a true old royal family, the "time-worn" blood of the Savoy was regenerated... And that gave a beautiful result!

I think it's true but in my opinion Queen Margherita was a very good looking woman even if she became quite fat soon after the birth of her son, she remained charming nevertheless.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 01, 2010, 04:18:39 AM
(http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/43816/2690327120101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2690327120101857556yGuxha)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 01, 2010, 07:57:56 AM
Maria Jose with daughter Maria Pia, her newborn twins grandchildren Miguel and Dmitri , son in law Alexander of yugoslavia and queen Olga

(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9520/66999916.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 01, 2010, 08:21:24 AM
Yes. It all came from one series on the birth of the twins. I use one in my book with Olga, Marie Jose and Elisabeth og Yugoslavia (who was also there that day).
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 02, 2010, 04:32:11 AM
Umberto :

http://img7.hostingpics.net/pics/934334ku.jpg[/img][/URL]

Just for curiosity, do you know where this photo was taken?...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on June 02, 2010, 01:45:30 PM
Umberto :

http://img7.hostingpics.net/pics/934334ku.jpg[/img][/URL]

Just for curiosity, do you know where this photo was taken?...


If I recall correctlly it is a photo taken by the Queen herself in Pompei or Ercolano in 1911 or 1912
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 13, 2010, 10:05:21 AM
The three eldest  kids of the couple : Maria Pia, Vittorio and Maria Gabriella

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2ahs95z.jpg)

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 14, 2010, 09:31:08 AM
Confirmation ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 15, 2010, 07:15:19 AM
Confirmation ?

Do you mean the photo above?, yes I confirm, they are exactly Princess Maria Pia seated alongside Prince Vittorio Emanuele, and little Princess Maria Gabriella seated on the floor in front of VE.

A photo of King Vittorio Emanuele III with young Prince Umberto.
(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/44641/2016435230101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2016435230101857556Indpiz)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 15, 2010, 07:35:54 AM
the picture above looks like a composite made with this image of Umberto

(http://i49.tinypic.com/2ymzyub.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 16, 2010, 09:41:27 AM
Not surprising.  ;)

I said confirmation since the girls appear in clothes for confirmation iceremony in the Catholic Church.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on June 16, 2010, 10:05:28 AM
Ah yes!, now I understand...here in Italy it's more know as "Cresima".

Yes, it could be taken for Confirmation Ceremony, (or for the First Holy Communion as I thought first...).
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 16, 2010, 10:13:27 AM
1946

(http://i47.tinypic.com/1zxw8wl.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 18, 2010, 08:13:17 AM
Umberto and his younger daughter Maria Beatriz

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3262/withmbeatriz.jpg) (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/withmbeatriz.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 22, 2010, 11:56:29 AM
Principessa Maria Beatriz

(http://i50.tinypic.com/29lbrbm.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on July 19, 2010, 07:04:13 AM
Family portrait of Umberto ,Marie Jose and children :) 1943
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/th_56-1.jpg) (http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/56-1.jpg)

Montenegro 1910 ,Victor Emanuelle,Queen Helena and siblings (I had it in newspaper and it was small so sorry for the size)
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/th_MONTENEGRO1910.jpg) (http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/MONTENEGRO1910.jpg)

Umberto and Marie Jose
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/th_6.jpg) (http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/6.jpg)

Princess Maria Pia Di Savoia (Daughter of Umberto and Marie Jose)
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/th_8.jpg) (http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/8.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 20, 2010, 10:09:27 AM



 
 Close up of Umberto. Courtesy of the LOC

(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4774/3819813923459f572283o.jpg) (http://img137.imageshack.us/i/3819813923459f572283o.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 20, 2010, 11:38:16 AM
And some others from this wonderful album:
Yolanda,Mafalda,Umberto and Giovanna at Racconigi,1908
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/th_2212-7.jpg) (http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/2212-7.jpg)


Although it was taken in Racconigi (Piemonte), they are on the typical "carretto siciliano" / Sicilian cart.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on July 20, 2010, 01:22:28 PM

Although it was taken in Racconigi (Piemonte), they are on the typical "carretto siciliano" / Sicilian cart.

[/quote]

I believe you! :) You are Italian you know for sure !
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on July 23, 2010, 01:24:01 PM
And some others from this wonderful album:
Yolanda,Mafalda,Umberto and Giovanna at Racconigi,1908
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/th_2212-7.jpg) (http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Ioanna_Of_Bulgaria/2212-7.jpg)


Although it was taken in Racconigi (Piemonte), they are on the typical "carretto siciliano" / Sicilian cart.


Couldn't it be sardinian?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 24, 2010, 05:28:23 AM
Couldn't it be sardinian?

Yes, maybe it could be Sardinian too, although the type of decorations reminds me more of a Sicilian cart...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on October 14, 2010, 08:08:56 AM
Inauguration of the "Tower of Victory" (in Ferrara) by the Prince Umberto of Savoia and Italo Balbo, October 30, 1928.

http://www.estense.com/ferrara/details.php?image_id=318
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on October 15, 2010, 07:43:54 AM
Umberto II on horseback (in Turin, I think).

(http://inlinethumb53.webshots.com/47860/2937525280101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2937525280101857556QcZSsn)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: gleb on October 15, 2010, 01:23:24 PM
Yes it is Turin, on the left you can see the Royal Armouryy, which is quite famous.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 16, 2010, 08:57:52 AM
Umberto with Isabelle, countess of Paris asisting to Maria Louisa of Bulgaria`s wedding

(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6919/zdfh.jpg) (http://img186.imageshack.us/i/zdfh.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on October 24, 2010, 06:30:50 AM
Principessa Maria Josè :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/343989mjicd.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=343989mjicd.jpg)

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/590604cd.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=590604cd.jpg)

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/340719df.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=340719df.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 24, 2010, 06:33:24 AM
Maria Jose by Albert Flury

http://www.albertflury.com/mariajose.htm
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: KarlandZita on October 25, 2010, 12:27:15 PM
Maria Josè and her daughter Maria Pia :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/918491mariajosemariapia.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=918491mariajosemariapia.jpg)

With her son Victor Emmanuel :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/822095configlio.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=822095configlio.jpg)

Maria Josè and Maria Beatrice :

(http://img10.hostingpics.net/pics/489831mariajosemariabeatrice1943.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=489831mariajosemariabeatrice1943.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 26, 2010, 09:12:37 AM
MAria jose & umberto at Emanuelle Filiberto`s christening

(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7233/emanuelefiliberto01.jpg) (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/emanuelefiliberto01.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 01, 2010, 08:41:48 AM
MAria Jose, Umberto with kids Vittorio Emmanuele and Maria Pia

(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6180/14991465699990000.jpg) (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/14991465699990000.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 10, 2010, 11:34:15 AM
Maria Jose

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6729/18953009.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/i/18953009.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on November 18, 2010, 01:51:33 PM
Maria Josè and Princess Konrad of Bavaria, born Bona di Savoia :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/841376bonamariejojpg.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=841376bonamariejojpg.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on December 05, 2010, 11:27:51 AM
Maria Jose and Maria Pia :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/226911mariejosemariapiajpg.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=226911mariejosemariapiajpg.jpg)

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/309143withmariapia2jpg.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=309143withmariapia2jpg.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 05, 2010, 03:45:07 PM
The young couple


 (http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8859/10036441a.jpg) (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/10036441a.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 03, 2011, 06:22:25 PM
Maria Jose playing tennis

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1523/2547325473.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/2547325473.jpg/)

 
Title: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Lucien on January 26, 2011, 11:30:52 PM
Today,january 27th,is the 10th anniversary of the death of HM Queen Marie-José,néé Princess of Belgium.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: THERRY on January 27, 2011, 10:55:15 AM
In memory of a remarkable woman
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9527/splendidaprincipessa.jpg) (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/splendidaprincipessa.jpg/)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on March 13, 2011, 08:29:59 AM
Umberto and Marie José during holidays in Capri :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/579287mjumbertocapri.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=579287mjumbertocapri.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Luc on April 13, 2011, 08:49:39 AM
The wedding celebrations of Marie José were full of royal guests.
There is a lot of information on the wedding and its celebrations in the Italian book Vita di corte in casa Savoia, written by HRH Princess Maria Gabriella of Savoia and Stefano Papi. Maybe somebody could post some photos of the wedding?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 13, 2011, 09:25:17 AM
i have two related to  the wedding courtesy of Claudiams

The groom
 
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm208/pablomilstein/nr/nr514.jpg)

and Bride

(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm208/pablomilstein/belgica/belgica368.jpg)


Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Luc on April 13, 2011, 04:00:14 PM
Thank you Katenka Fyodorovna! The bride looks beautiful! Where did you get that signed photo of Princess Marie José from??
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 13, 2011, 07:51:18 PM
it seems it comes from a book. I will ask to Claudia from which one  ;-D
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on June 25, 2011, 07:50:24 AM
Marie José as a belgian Princess :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/395361prinsesmarijo.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=395361prinsesmarijo.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 25, 2011, 12:13:42 PM
Umberto was very good looking and dashing in uniform.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on June 25, 2011, 12:43:59 PM
It is for nothing that he was nicknamed "King gentleman".
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 25, 2011, 01:23:39 PM
I think his dark looks from his mother, worked well with his features & figure.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on July 02, 2011, 05:25:22 AM
Umberto and Marie josé to the regates of Venice :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/706098regatesvenise.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=706098regatesvenise.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 02, 2011, 07:59:58 AM
Engagement image of the couple. Note the TONS of flowers surrounding them!

(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/596/abr573.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on October 22, 2011, 07:29:27 AM
Ex-Queen Marie José with Prince Bernard of Netherlands :

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/847795mariejob.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=847795mariejob.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 22, 2011, 08:48:41 AM
Composite of Umberto and Maria Jose

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5301/476438845o.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/476438845o.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Sara Araújo on November 02, 2011, 10:27:52 AM
Prince Charles-Philippe d'Orléans has recently publish a book in Portugal titled "Reis no Exilio - Portugal: Um Refugio Real" (Kings in Exile - Portugal: A Royal Refuge), which features Umberto and other royals on the cover and, as the tile suggests, talks about his and other royals exile in Portugal.

Cover:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uENKYmuyBx4/TpMjaLYsTzI/AAAAAAAAJJs/SQnlFj_kgBY/s1600/reis.jpg

Summary:

Europe was being devastated by a cruel and deadly war, but Portugal, who had remained neutral, was turning into a desirable destination for thousands of refugees who wanted to escape the horrors of Nazi Germany. Among them, there were princes, kings without a crown and members of the great European Monarchies who found a royal refuge in Portugal. In 1940, Wallis Simpson and the Duke of Windsor, along with King Carol of Romania, who had just been deposed, arrived in Portugal. Six years latter it was time for the Spanish Royal Family to settle in Estoril. After them, King Umberto and Queen Maria José of Italy, as well as the Franch Royal Family. Cascais, Estoril and Sintra, the so-called "Golden Triangle", are the destinations chosen by these royal visitors. The bar at the Hotel Palácio served the count of Barcelona and the count of Paris, the sea waters of Guincho welcomed the young Spanish and Italian Princes, the restaurant "O Pescador" was the countess of Barcelona's favorite and the "São Carlos" theater received King Umberto, who was eager for entertainment.

The author, Charles Phillipe d'Orleans, Duke of Anjou, didn't live through these years, but he knows them by heart thanks to his grandmother, the countess of Paris who told him about "Quinta do Anjinho", the house of happiness, refuge of the French Royal Family. It was there where the Spanish Infantas Pilar and Marguerita were married in a celebration never before seen. Princess Maria Pia of Italy chose Cascais, the town where she grew up, to celebrate her wedding which made news all throughout Europe and it was in Villa Giralda, Estoril, where King Juan Carlos of Spain's younger brother, Alfonsito, died in tragic circumstances.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 02, 2011, 03:16:38 PM
I think the King & Queen needs a book in English.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on January 05, 2012, 03:31:53 PM
Others photos of beautiful Queen Maria Josè:

(http://i53.tinypic.com/a5fc02.jpg)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/10h3pc2.jpg)

(http://i53.tinypic.com/ipd05t.jpg)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/140dces.jpg)

(http://i51.tinypic.com/2rxv80z.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on January 14, 2012, 07:45:57 AM
Marie José in 1943 with her children :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/7079991943.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=7079991943.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 14, 2012, 01:35:12 PM
She looked like a star even with all those children.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on January 25, 2012, 04:13:14 AM
Yes! She is very beautiful.

Another Umberto pics:

Umberto at Ostia in 1925:

(http://www.grupponline.it/Foto%20per%20frontpage/Savoia-al-mare.jpg)

Umberto with his sister Mafalda in 1925:

(http://www.grupponline.it/Foto%20per%20frontpage/Savoia-al-mare-1925.jpg)

Umberto with sisters:

(http://www.grupponline.it/Foto%20per%20frontpage/Principini.jpg)

Umberto with Queen Elena and sisters:

(http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/img_db/bcf/3a010/13/l/12197_3a010_12197_1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on January 26, 2012, 07:17:18 AM
Maria Josè as Princess of Piedmont:

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/308119_275813252431381_152558931423481_1204960_1197985547_n.jpg)

Maria Josè with family:

(http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/img_db/bcf/3g010/26/l/25590_25590.jpg)

Umberto and Maria Josè's daughter, Princess Maria Gabriella:

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/-9A0VsmZ-yKM/StWYJK9jlmE/AAAAAAAAa08/K3AQlTZpOfY/MariaGabriellaDiSavoia.jpg)

Maria Josè.

(http://roma.bloomsburyauctions.com/fiximages/ROMA-16/6628.jpg)

Maria Josè with her son:

(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/307077_278960958783277_152558931423481_1219044_344130802_n.jpg)

Maria Josè and Umberto:

(http://www.alleanza-monarchica.com/foto_image/MariaUmberto.jpg)

The wedding day:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FFCpxbWcue8/TSglGoM6TMI/AAAAAAAABDU/T__sgMnQSq0/s1600/matrimonio-umberto-jose.jpg)

Queen Maria Josè:

(http://www.cancelloedarnonenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/regina.jpg)

Umberto with wife Maria Josè:

(http://www.fotovasconi.it/images/Principe%20Umberto.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: miki_nastya on January 27, 2012, 11:33:27 AM
 on 27 January, 12 years ago Maria Jose died..RIP...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on February 25, 2012, 07:24:41 AM
La Principessa di Piemonte, 1939 :

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/98427944771939014.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=98427944771939014.jpg)

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/46534044891939026.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=46534044891939026.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: THERRY on February 25, 2012, 11:16:25 AM
Lovely ! There is also the husband Umberto in your first photo
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on June 10, 2012, 10:23:55 AM
Marie José, then Princess of Belgium, during an official visit to Denmark with her parents Albert Ier and Elisabeth, in 1929 :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/517494DH007711.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=517494DH007711.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/917955DH007735.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=917955DH007735.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/617590DH007736.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=617590DH007736.jpg)


Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 10, 2012, 01:17:11 PM
Was the handsome young man who welcomed her Prince Knud of Denmark ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on June 15, 2012, 12:10:48 PM
Was the handsome young man who welcomed her Prince Knud of Denmark ?

This is indeed Knud.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 15, 2012, 01:33:02 PM
Too bad they did not hit it off. :-(
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on June 16, 2012, 04:38:01 PM
Umberto, Maria Josè and their children:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6zj-je7NKj8/S-bUBbksPNI/AAAAAAAACC8/phUPSXL7K2Y/s1600/umberto+II-+maria+jos%C3%83%C2%A8.jpg)

(http://www.bolzano-scomparsa.it/imagebrowser/p048_0_1.png)

Maria Josè:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6zj-je7NKj8/S-bTYu5mtBI/AAAAAAAACCk/xGcqk9o1O5s/s1600/maria+josè+del+belgio.jpg)

(http://www.mariocelestino.it/images/principessa-b.gif)

(http://bargarchivio.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/01748-1024x660.jpg)

(http://bargarchivio.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/01750-1024x652.jpg)

(http://bargarchivio.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/01753-1024x651.jpg)

(http://bargarchivio.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/01756-1024x641.jpg)

(http://levipere.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mussolini-maria-jos%C3%A8.jpg)

(http://www.icharta.com/data/items/images/05/21/C-052101/C-052101_det_01.jpg)

Maria Josè and Umberto:

(http://images.alinari.it/img/480/FVQ/FVQ-F-107940-0000.jpg)

(http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/SoleOnLine4/ARCH_Immagini/Tempo%20libero%20e%20Cultura/2008/01/maria-jose-principe-umberto-lapresse-240x154.jpg)

Umberto:

(http://www.giovannidallorto.com/lettere/umberto/umberto.JPG)

(http://www.fondazionesavoia.org/web_imgs/index_ters/index_roi.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on June 16, 2012, 04:44:26 PM
Little Maria Josè with her mother, Queen Elizabeth of Belgium:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UL8zf1eusSc/ToM-iwp4KuI/AAAAAAAAAzk/tqOjHmItgFI/s1600/ElisabethofBelgiumwithMariaJosebaby.jpg)

Little Maria Josè:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TJNKzSz1eJg/ToM_Lm6z5iI/AAAAAAAAAzo/V5aQ7X7rDQY/s1600/5721820577_d9f63146ee_b.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3zkqEZ6VG-8/ToM_p0xzXUI/AAAAAAAAAzs/0xDjxT7mQJs/s1600/Albert+I+of+Belgium++and+family+xfl.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z-KEsK-H-aU/ToNAJlUR7ZI/AAAAAAAAAzw/ImhT0Ru8yQc/s1600/Maria+Jos%25C3%25A8+bambina.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yTziQ3CtqKQ/ToNA3NOboYI/AAAAAAAAAz0/sKCdRLo_qgY/s1600/5315812007_1ccdfaa75b_b.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EwfNEeaGIkk/ToNBGBuw5vI/AAAAAAAAAz4/gRF-HpwwCnw/s1600/Elisabeth+family+xfl.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IEGAc6XkiCw/ToNBZO2A-XI/AAAAAAAAAz8/2e-93vQ8_sU/s1600/5315807683_5abd6d0470_b.jpg)

Maria Josè with her brother:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m7jZBCfimV8/ToNCJiBGEjI/AAAAAAAAA0A/DpJgZo8HGT4/s1600/Cr.+Pr.+Leopold+e+sorella+M.+Jos%25C3%25A8+Belgio.jpg)

Maria Josè teenager:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-q3JMy6PyLdA/ToNCfFktYmI/AAAAAAAAA0E/adkrasfr2CE/s1600/Maria+Jos%25C3%25A8+adolescente.jpg)

Princess Maria Josè:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tavzMaahF2E/ToNC14fgFuI/AAAAAAAAA0I/Bo7h-2GMwY8/s1600/2736137294_aca4d2b39a_o.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on June 18, 2012, 08:49:16 AM
King Umberto II:

(http://www.ilcastellodiracconigi.it/ita/personaggi/foto/im/umberto_II.jpg)

(http://comandosupremo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/umberto.jpg)

(http://www.lombardiabeniculturali.it/img_db/bcf/u3020/1/l/72_1929_073.jpg)

(http://www.iagi.info/Araldicaforum/Sportelli01.jpg)

Umberto and Maria Josè:

(http://www.iagi.info/Araldicaforum/Sportelli02.jpg)

(http://www.cartantica.it/content/Umberto/Umberto-II-e-Maria-Jos%C3%A9-00.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on September 10, 2012, 08:28:11 AM
Queen Maria Josè:

(http://i33.tinypic.com/2zsa97r.jpg)

(http://i34.tinypic.com/aczxqp.jpg)

(http://i36.tinypic.com/r9lc92.jpg)

(http://i37.tinypic.com/14mw10k.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on September 10, 2012, 08:41:33 AM
Maria Josè:

(http://static0.akpool.de/images/cards/56/563304.jpg)

(http://static3.akpool.de/images/cards/56/569930.jpg)

Umberto:

(http://static3.akpool.de/images/cards/56/563374.jpg)

(http://static2.akpool.de/images/cards/56/563377.jpg)

(http://static1.akpool.de/images/cards/56/562513.jpg)

Young Umberto:

(http://static3.akpool.de/images/cards/28/288078.jpg)

Umberto, Maria Josè and their daughter Maria Pia.

(http://static3.akpool.de/images/cards/56/563334.jpg)

Royals Dynasties of Belgium and Italy:

(http://static2.akpool.de/images/cards/28/287313.jpg)

Maria Josè, Reza Palhevi and Maria Gabriella from "La Domenica del Corriere":

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/-n6pbLlS4_UA/StWYLWfC8VI/AAAAAAAAD3E/2dY2-UHRHiI/Mariagabriella08.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on November 12, 2012, 07:27:32 AM
Little Maria Josè with her morther Elizabeth:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lvIY38KbVus/TriK8nYd5wI/AAAAAAAAEdg/2nl5aOA8NKg/s1600/02671_0dbff8a7_122_390lo.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-81QEF-6xCp4/TriLIcXCioI/AAAAAAAAEdo/wYWvafQz2Vg/s1600/elisabeth_mariejose02.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/TLui7aqWtqI/AAAAAAAAD2c/ZDLt1EylNB0/s1600/Elisabeth,+Marie-Jose%CC%81+portrait.jpg)

Young Maria Josè:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/SnhJolpyRmI/AAAAAAAAB-8/S32h8J1fPzU/s400/Marie-Jos%C3%A9_of_Belgium_aged_9_-_Project_Gutenberg_etext_20521.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/SZdMj6rdXCI/AAAAAAAAAao/sdecvRwv87k/s1600/d4555.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/Sc49bQI8aLI/AAAAAAAAA8c/-UE7hl0a5Yg/s1600/pastedGraphic.jpg)

Maria Josè with her father:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/Sc49TKuq3gI/AAAAAAAAA8U/SWRN2ZCP6ic/s1600/With+her+father.jpg)

Maria Josè with her brothers Leopold and Charles:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/SoXygLOwHmI/AAAAAAAACEw/l3Dm_y5uY9Q/s1600/mariebelgium1906-18.jpg)

Portrait of Princess Marie-José:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/TFMgywryHBI/AAAAAAAADos/aadFfsuezhY/s1600/Marie-Jos%C3%A9+child+portrait.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lvkvU7reziA/TeaNpdNVj3I/AAAAAAAAEPs/O1M1GWy5hDY/s1600/d4931376x.jpg)

Maria Josè:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/Sc49I5OGnrI/AAAAAAAAA8M/fe-QFPhW4yM/s1600/pastedGraphic.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/SoBQ57h9Q-I/AAAAAAAACDA/HwtOTB0jjkQ/s1600/Profile+picture+of+MJ.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/Scf9RpbileI/AAAAAAAAA48/h6TPTJ6Ud_s/s1600/Arranging+photos+of+her+parents.jpg)

The First Communion of Princess Marie-José:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PGYvN0xB_Tk/TZu99ygL52I/AAAAAAAAEMU/1D0Y0JBdRYY/s1600/196.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/S-tv_z7EyoI/AAAAAAAADXA/ijm70QZj6HI/s1600/4591479476_fc20aabc6e%5B1%5D.jpg)

Engagement of Umberto & Marie-José:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/SuO9VpNAFVI/AAAAAAAACrw/r8pUt3sfEbk/s1600/Marie-Jos%C3%A9+%26+Umberto.jpg)

Maria Josè Princess of Piedmont:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sBfMBpIiRvo/T61FFuY-NNI/AAAAAAAAEoA/4LHlFk7e4XI/s1600/4202727013_591c361fed.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9HGavU1L_GA/Ta79lDa3RNI/AAAAAAAAENU/BnxDADNHvd4/s1600/belgica368.jpg)

A postcard of "Princess Sunbeam", little Marie-José, helping Belgian refugees during the First World War:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cf68XqhLdJ8/TfO6CDATXfI/AAAAAAAAEQk/KDN46XvZXX4/s1600/505%255B1%255D.jpg)

Queen Elisabeth of Belgium, her daughter Marie-José, and her grand-daughter Maria Pia:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-u0Eh4ImE-g/SZT-HExTf1I/AAAAAAAAAZ0/lQLGRcligb8/s400/Marie-Jos%C3%A9,+Elisabeth,+Maria+Pia.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on December 06, 2012, 11:48:24 AM
Other photos of Maria Josè and Umberto:

(http://i48.tinypic.com/1449iw.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/dr4ba8.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/155jg2g.jpg)

(http://oi49.tinypic.com/5f3rtd.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/fa4jlg.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/5me13s.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2ng8wlk.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on December 06, 2012, 11:55:10 AM
(http://i48.tinypic.com/15s25o4.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/vpw5k0.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/e85w0o.jpg)

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2njwlqf.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/11uj6dt.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on December 06, 2012, 12:12:24 PM
Umberto Prince of Piedmont:

(http://i50.tinypic.com/1182lug.jpg)

Umberto's birthday:

(http://i50.tinypic.com/n7vjt.jpg)

Umberto, Maria Josè and their children:

(http://i49.tinypic.com/16k55aa.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on March 24, 2013, 11:05:15 AM
Umberto and Maria Josè:

(http://i46.tinypic.com/34ir5fd.jpg)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/14t0oie.jpg)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/258xhd0.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/nd4w02.jpg)

(http://i50.tinypic.com/oqkv0p.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2q23dz6.jpg)

Principe Umberto in Cuneo at Collegio San Tommaso:

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2a5epl4.jpg)

Their daughter, Maria Pia:

(http://i48.tinypic.com/i255cw.jpg)

Their children Maria Pia, Vittorio Emanuele and Maria Gabriella:

(http://i50.tinypic.com/35a4uhz.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 24, 2013, 02:01:43 PM
I forgot who wrote about the couple had separate private lives ...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on March 26, 2013, 06:57:37 AM
Umberto:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3377/4641849242_ff3bb19a9c_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3268/2792170026_17ab871bcb_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3001/2660992435_91e70c462c_o.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8164/6985490678_238a3ce2d1_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3605/3465090541_b1faefe8f9_o.jpg)

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2663/4202726151_ebc157d916_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3051/3726308180_13671d78c0_o.jpg)

Maia Josè:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3134/2855051023_5e1138ea59_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3267/2887226384_e1df2fda34_o.jpg)

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2047/2205355685_a78f69de6a_o.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8028/6985490052_493c9f237e_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3572/3816930477_c7e5ccdd13_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3036/2943562855_e88afbedbe_o.jpg)


Umberto and Maria Jose:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3057/2903824027_5694424db7_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3017/2904667570_4004bd3fee_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3063/2736135210_2a0900a8a7_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3640/3465322185_d1713d94b6_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3589/3433357157_accb51fe4a_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3182/3280541169_b63897cc55_o.jpg)

(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4062/4641241051_2bc8cb3720_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3467/3892183159_32ae2f2c82_o.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7032/6737168349_84c0b4937a_o.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7150/6766063223_0d91422f01_o.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6737168935_d210d3a43c_o.jpg)

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2715/4185457396_2ecdbd19e9_o.jpg)


Umberto with his sisters Giovanna and Maria in Vaticano:

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2164/2363724705_4f99864425_o.jpg)


Umberto and his sister Maria:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3529/3816930901_6479c92173_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3512/3801149272_3d5a9c5022_o.jpg)

Umberto and Maria Josè's children:

(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4069/4641849504_79533c51f0_o.jpg)

(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6177/6223719638_ec4011b480_o.jpg)

Italien Royalty postcard birth of Prince Umberto:

(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4051/4591478702_29b26df303_o.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on March 26, 2013, 07:09:55 AM
Queen Marie Jose of Italy with Jean Marais and Jean Cocteau:

(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6112/6223200327_906fb19162_o.jpg)

King Umberto II. and Queen Marie Jose of Italy as Wedding guests:

(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6034/6223719690_9a7d44a355_o.jpg)

Prince Umberto:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7175/6451591387_a5293d2c14_o.jpg)

Prince Umberto with daughter Maria Pia:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6737169303_16042f2a66_o.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on March 26, 2013, 08:16:59 AM
Princess Marie Jose arrives in Rome:

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2001/2254026287_7692b610ec_o.jpg)

Crown Prince and Princess of Italy:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3136/2736134974_effefee41f_o.jpg)

Princess Maria Josè with children Vittorio Emanuele e Maria Pia:

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7366/pila1938.jpg)

Umberto and Maria:

(http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7916/mariaconsuhermanoumbert.jpg)

Princess Maria Josè:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3188/3002862984_dc34783c1b_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3535/3224351893_3fcd07587a_o.jpg)

(http://levipere.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mussolini-maria-jos%C3%A8.jpg)

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7317/mariajosereinadeitalia.jpg)

(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4036/4409408602_426a123094.jpg)

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5531/maria20jose2.jpg)

Umberto and Maria Josè:

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/630/ve43g.jpg)

Umberto and Maria Josè in Turin:

(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2773/torino2.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 26, 2013, 09:38:44 AM
The one which says "Memento Mori" was colorized by me :-)

Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on March 26, 2013, 12:40:16 PM
Fantastic! I find this photo on google. A wonderful job, Carolath Habsburg! Have you this photo not colorized? If yes, please can you post it?
Have you other Maria Josè's photos?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 26, 2013, 12:50:27 PM
Im sure this image is here...somewhere :-s

I have tons, not colored mostly, i will post them later (i use to post it in my tumblr page, There i have a lot of Maria jose in different stages of her life)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on March 30, 2013, 02:12:53 PM
Can you give me the address of your tumblr's page?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: grandduchessella on March 30, 2013, 03:55:10 PM
Just as a reminder, please limit photos to 3-4 per post. Otherwise, it can slow the loading of the page. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: KarlandZita on April 06, 2013, 08:13:34 AM
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/458229court.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=458229court.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on May 13, 2013, 11:10:55 AM
Maria José:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3582/5721820577_17b27abbee_o.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3114/2737686233_ceea252583_o.jpg)

(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4026/4511212390_60d0d03474_o.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on May 17, 2013, 08:35:01 AM
Umberto:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3232/2736135454_6e78fa6b24_o.jpg)

Umberto and Maria Josè:

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2662/4203485248_700d767ccc_o.jpg)

Maria José and her brother:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3315/3335373174_32819be8ca_o.jpg)

Maria José:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3065/3029577410_65df422914_o.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on May 17, 2013, 08:43:27 AM
Maria José as a child:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3083/2633564375_f425f0272f.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseofBelgiumachild.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJosofBelgiumlittlegirl.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJosedeBelgiquecute.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseofBelgiquewithflowers.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on May 17, 2013, 08:45:12 AM
Maria José as a child:

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJosewithdogs.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJosesoooocute.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MaraJosesixyearsold.jpg)

Maria José and her brothers:

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseofBelgiumbetweenherbrother.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on May 17, 2013, 08:47:14 AM
Little Maria Josè and her mother Elizabeth:

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseofBelgiumwithhermotherElis.jpg)

Maria José, her father, her mother and her brothers:

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/AlbertElisabethandbabies.jpg)

Young Maria Josè:

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MaraJosepostcard.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseofBelgium.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on May 17, 2013, 08:51:33 AM
Young Maria José:

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseofBelgiumchild.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/2151097763_246a9684c1_o.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseprincessBelgium.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseofBelgiumartist.jpg)

(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ElayneShalott/MariaJoseteenager.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on August 02, 2013, 03:57:36 PM
Queen Elena and Princess Maria José with Pope Pio XII:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/b/b9/Pio_XII_al_Quirinale.JPG/421px-Pio_XII_al_Quirinale.JPG)

Princess Maria José with Mussolini (1935):

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/9/9d/Mussolini_e_Maria_Jos%C3%A8_a_un_saggio_di_equitazione_1935.jpg/800px-Mussolini_e_Maria_Jos%C3%A8_a_un_saggio_di_equitazione_1935.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 07, 2013, 09:48:47 AM
I think it's really strange that King Albert I. and Queen Elisabeth allowed their eldest son Leopold (III.) to marry for love (Astrid of Sweden)
and said to the press "tell our people that this is a love match and nothing had been arranged",
and then push their only daughter Marie Jose in an arranged marriage with Umberto...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on August 13, 2013, 05:39:15 AM
The marriage of Maria Jose and Umberto was an arranged marriage, but Maria Jose love Umberto. Also Umberto love her, it's not true that the couple wasn't in love. Umberto and Maria José had deep admiration, respect and affection for one another, but Umberto seems to have had trouble relating to his wife romantically.

Umberto was always concerned and solicitous for his wife, but tended to be reserved and distant towards her. After the fall of the Italian monarchy and the exile of the Savoys, Maria José found  Portugal, the royal family's refuge, too depressing. She also had difficulty relating to her husband on a daily basis. While Maria José was much more open, Umberto tended to hide his feelings of deep sorrow and humiliation, to withdraw into silence. His wife came to believe that he needed space to deal with his inner turmoil. Accordingly, she moved to Switzerland, where she felt more cheerful.  Health reasons also contributed to her decision. The royal couple, however, always maintained cordial relations, and continued to visit one another. Umberto, who shared Maria José's cultural interests, assisted his wife with her prestigious historical research on the House of Savoy, and wrote her beautiful letters. Every month, he sent her a bouquet of red roses with an affectionate note. When Umberto was dying of cancer, his wife was at his side and they spent many tender hours together, holding hands.

There have been many rumors that Umberto was unfaithful, or even bisexual, but isn't true, because many of these claims seem to have been fomented by the fascists, who saw the handsome, popular young prince as a potential threat to Mussolini. It is also known that Umberto was deeply religious and Maria José praised him in the highest terms, after his death, as a man of great moral rectitude and personal virtue who never lost his dignity or rigor, even amidst the most atrocious sufferings.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 13, 2013, 01:35:47 PM
I don't think Marie Jose had a chance to say "no" to Umberto..

Even as a girl she was told to marry him some day. That was the fault of her parents Albert & Elisabeth who pushed her towards Umberto.
Maybe she liked him, but I don't think it was love.

Marie Jose herself said about her marriage "We were never happy."
I think she told the truth.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 13, 2013, 02:22:35 PM
I thought Maria Jose, in the first beggining, was in love with Amedeo III di Savoia-Aosta and vice versa 0_o
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: José on August 13, 2013, 05:11:59 PM
A couple of years ago, an italian TV series on Umberto and Maria José suggested there was some romance between the crown-princess and the duke of Aosta, but they did not explicit that MJ cheated on Umberto.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on August 14, 2013, 12:19:19 PM
Yes, but it was a platonic romance. The Tv series was a great hit in Italy.

Here a rare pic of Maria Jose:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/j7u6nb.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 14, 2013, 03:28:32 PM
Love to see the history series on the King & Queen...too bad you cannot get anything here in US...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on August 16, 2013, 04:26:14 AM
@Eric Lowe, are italian Kings and Queens popular in US?I don't know. I know the most popular Princess in US is Diana Spencer, Princess of Wales. I don't know for others.

Here in Italy, King and Queens of the House of Savoy are very popular, especially the Kings from Vittorio Emanuele II to Umberto II. For the Queens and Princesses of the House of Savoy  the most popular in Italy are Rosa Vercellana countess of Mirafiori, Maria Clotilde of Savoy the daughter of Vittorio Emanuele II, Queen Margherita, Queen Elena, Queen Maria Jose, Princess Mafalda. Also Princess Giovanna Tsarina of Buklgaria and Princess Jolanda are quite popular. Princess Maria, the sisters of Umberto II, was a very beautiful girl but today is not very popular in Italy.

Also the children of Umberto II and Maria Jose are very popular in Italy and in Europe.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 16, 2013, 03:16:35 PM
Hi Veu-1

Americans are very ignorant of Kings & Queens outside there sphere. I would love to get those series in DVD if they have subtitles. Want to get that one on Mafalda too.

If so, why would they not consider a restoration of the monarchy ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 16, 2013, 04:08:48 PM
The one of Mafalda is on Youtube. At least the last time i checked, it was there.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on August 17, 2013, 02:54:20 AM
Hi Veu-1

Americans are very ignorant of Kings & Queens outside there sphere. I would love to get those series in DVD if they have subtitles. Want to get that one on Mafalda too.

If so, why would they not consider a restoration of the monarchy ?

No, the restoration is impossible. Kings, Queens and Prince, Princesses are popular especially for history and stories, or docu-fiction, but the new generation of House of Savoy is popular especially for the gossip magazine, when gossip magazine covers Savoy heirs or others Princes/Princesses of the world they sell very well.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 17, 2013, 03:28:00 AM
In other words they became celebs like J-LO, Kim Kardashian or Tom Cruise...

Thanks. Are those dramas in DVDs with subtitles ?
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on August 18, 2013, 06:04:08 AM
Yes, all Royals and Princely family in the world in Italy are celebs like JLo, Kim Kardashian, Tom Cruise or Angelina Jolie.

The dvd of the movie Maria Jose l'ultima Regina is only in italian, unfortunately there isn't subtitles for what I know. The movie Mafalda Il Coraggio di una Principessa aired many times on television, but unfortunately there is not dvd for this movie in Italy.
I counsel you to watch both the movies because are very good movies.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 18, 2013, 09:28:47 AM
RAI website has the movie but only for italia. An spanish channel aired it on spanish, i saw it on youtube

Here s Mafalda movie, but in italian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aabS8G6YbWk

With Clotilde Coreau in it <3
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on August 19, 2013, 03:56:04 AM
Yes in Mafalda Il Coraggio di una Principessa Princess Clotilde Courau play the role of Mafalda's sister Giovanna, the Queen of Bulgaria.

It's possible that Rai International aired Maria Jose L'Ultima Regina in english language, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 20, 2013, 06:48:09 PM
Love to see it in English language or at least English subtitled...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: bongo on March 10, 2014, 02:03:32 AM
Quote
There have been many rumors that Umberto was unfaithful, or even bisexual, but isn't true

Let's correct this right now!  

I know an elderly gentleman who, as a pretty young man, was kept by a Swedish baron. (The Swedish royal family nicknamed him "the little baron".)

He's far too grand, successful, and worldly to be bothered retailing an untruth (had a career in Hollywood, etc), and is a fund of amusing anecdotes given his past -- he's shared some of his personal history on television, but not explicitly!

He told me that he had once been sexually propositioned on the Lido. He turned the man down.

However, a year later at the Savoy Grill in London he was formally introduced to the man, who turned out to be Umberto!

He said the ex-King was very gentlemanly and droll about it.

"I believe young man we have met before" he said.

I bowed very low: "Yes Your Majesty, I believe we have..."

Ironically, he became friendly with Princess Maria Pia, and used to Cha Cha with her!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Превед on March 10, 2014, 07:56:14 AM
He told me that he had once been sexually propositioned on the Lido. He turned the man down.

However, a year later at the Savoy Grill in London he was formally introduced to the man, who turned out to be Umberto!

Both venues are a bit too good to be true:
The Lido as scene of the most famous gay ephebophile story (Der Tod in Venedig) and a young cock, if you excuse the pun, being grilled by a Savoy at the Savoy Grill.

The Lido was certainly upscale 100 years ago, but I haven't gotten the impression it was a playground for royalty. (Especially not in their own country, they usually indulge in "exotic tastes" abroad. But perhaps the Lido was therefore a great place for Umberto to "cruise" incognito....)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: bongo on March 10, 2014, 06:12:01 PM
Naturally you're welcome to overthink it, but every man and his dog is aware of Death in Venice, and implying the Savoy Grill was used a cute pun for a fiction is not the gentleman's style.

In any case, it's far from being his most interesting recollection, but I thought worth sharing considering that the suggestion that Umberto wasn't bisexual, given the amount of evidence from people still living, is risible.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Превед on March 11, 2014, 07:36:04 AM
Naturally you're welcome to overthink it, but every man and his dog is aware of Death in Venice,

That is of course why it would be a witty quip even if it's not true. Well, it all sounds like something straight out of Proust and perhaps it's as ineffable with regard to its claimed veracity as that work. Dites-nous, your friend didn't engage in a threesome with Marcel and Mann at Hôtel Saint James & Albany?



Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: bongo on March 12, 2014, 06:23:42 AM
Wit? Perhaps focus on mastering English first.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Превед on March 12, 2014, 10:22:18 AM
Wit? Perhaps focus on mastering English first.

A witty quip by your friend, not me.
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2014, 09:51:59 PM
I heard from another source he liked men too. It would be interesting to find someone to turn him down him being handsome and a king to boot...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Превед on March 12, 2014, 10:07:54 PM
I heard from another source he liked men too. It would be interesting to find someone to turn him down him being handsome and a king to boot...

Well, all men are not royalty-obsessed queens like us, Eric. Somewhere out there there actually exist heterosexual men who would turn down gay sex with a king, impossible as that is to comprehend for us whose idea of hell is a straight republic!
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2014, 11:32:29 PM
I think it would be easier as he aged, although I think he kept his figure unlike Foxy Ferdinand...
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on July 27, 2014, 07:11:58 AM
Monza, September 1930. Princess Maria José of Belgium steps down from Borzacchini's Alfa Romeo car with the help of Prospero Gianferrari:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Maria_Jos%C3%A9_scende_dall%27Alfa.JPG/640px-Maria_Jos%C3%A9_scende_dall%27Alfa.JPG)


Umberto in 1944:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Umberto_II%2C_1944.jpg)


Umberto as a prince during his visit to Chile, in 1924:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Pr%C3%ADncipe_Humberto_de_Saboya.jpg/640px-Pr%C3%ADncipe_Humberto_de_Saboya.jpg)


Umberto II of Italy visiting Cairo:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Umberto_II_visiting_Cairo.jpg)


The Prince and the Princess of Piedmont in 1930:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-09783%2C_Mailand%2C_Italienisches_Kronprinzenpaar.jpg)
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 29, 2014, 09:42:21 PM
I think Umberto needs a book in English
Title: Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose
Post by: veu-1 on January 31, 2015, 12:51:51 PM
Crown Prince Umberto and Crown Princess Marie Jose of Italy:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/wb5apg.jpg)


King Umberto II of Italy with Queen Marie Jose:

(http://i61.tinypic.com/24672v8.jpg)


Princess Marie Jose, future Queen of Italy:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2yvtopx.jpg)

(http://i60.tinypic.com/5n04m.jpg)