Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: Dimitri on May 12, 2004, 10:36:14 AM

Title: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Dimitri on May 12, 2004, 10:36:14 AM
Does any one have any information on Kaisers William II only daughter? Did she write any memoirs?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Janet_W. on May 12, 2004, 11:35:47 AM
You've provided an excellent summation, Thomas!  

I have one of her books--autobiographical in nature--in my "Romanov Library." It reads very well--whoever translated it into English seems to have done an excellent job--and although I haven't reviewed it in awhile, my general impression is that Victoria Louise was a congenial person and very much devoted to her father.

I'm not surprised she was unaccepting of her female role. In a household of brothers, having to act ladylike would have been stressful, not to mention darn near unnatural.  Also, from what I've read there were a great many young ladies out there in Victorian/Edwardian times who were frustrated about their female status, not so much in a sexual sense, but in terms of being able to talk, dress, study, work and socialize in a less constrained fashion.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Guinastasia on May 14, 2004, 05:50:40 PM
She did indeed write her memoires-I have her book in my shelf upstairs, "The Kaiser's Daughter"?  (I'll check on it)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on May 14, 2004, 11:27:04 PM
She was at the center of what I think is one of the more romantic of royal tales. The deposed King of Hannover had passed his hatred of the Prussian/Hohenzollerns on to his son and other children (plus his daughter-in-law Thyra had her own reasons to despise them). As their eldest son, George Wilhelm was returning from the funeral of his uncle, King Frederick of Denmark, he was involved in a fatal car accident.  The Kaiser, Wilhelm II sent an honor guard to accompany the young prince's body. This led to Ernst, Duke of Cumberland (and de-facto King of Hannover) to send his only surviving son, Ernst August to repay the courtesy. Upon his arrival, he and the young Princess fell in love. Despite the Romeo/Juliet aspects, the 2 were allowed to marry and the Kaiser granted EA the title of Duke of Brunswick and returned some of the confiscated land. The love the 2 shared seemed to never wane and photos can be seen of them in old age beaming and holding hands. VL did write her memoirs as well as books on her parents (I don't know if the latter are in English or not). Her governess, Anne Topham also wrote a series on her time in Berlin. She basically summed up young VL as headstrong and spoiled but of a basic sweet nature and capable of great kindness. VL always reminded me of a story of Eunice Kennedy Shriver where old Joe Kennedy once remarked that basically she had more brains and acumen than her brothers "too bad she wasn't a boy" thus denying outright any meaningful political role because of her gender. VL always seemed to have more intelligence, level-headedness and drive than her brothers--certainly the Crown Prince!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Annie on July 13, 2004, 09:00:23 AM

Yes, it's called "The Kaiser's Daughter" It is in my local library and I've read it. It's a good book and has a lot of family photos.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on July 13, 2004, 10:18:03 AM
She's one of my favorites (oh, who isn't? LOL). I think she's just so pretty and I love the story of her romance with EA--especially the way she describes it in her autobiography. Sigh. Very romantic about love at first sight. She was definitely a character--probably the child the Kaiser was most proud of--he seems to have been far more impressed with her than any of his sons. She was definitely a Daddy's girl and that's basically how she got around the family feud to marry EA. I think she also used her influence to secure her brother Oskar's wedding to her mother's lady-in-waiting. She apparently asked for it as a wedding present. She and EA were in love until the end of their lives and had a very happy marriage, but unfortunately after his death she had a falling out with some of her children regarding the allowance her husband had left for her. I think her son (sons?) thought it was too large. It finally went to court and was settled.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on July 29, 2004, 10:20:01 PM
Quote
Sorry, but I don't think that this is Victoria Luise.

I know the man who sells these photographs by Witte - he asked me whether I could identfiy some of them. But most are labelled wrong.  :P

She does not at all look like the princess.


Well! After hearing that I'm glad I didn't win the bid for this or another one on ebay.  ;) I had my doubts, but couldn't really tell due to the face being turned away and somewhat shadowed.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: princessalice on August 22, 2004, 11:58:41 PM
i have the autobiography of Viktoria Luise', very well done, even though she may paint a more tender picture of her father, i guess that was to be expected.  i have a few postcards of her in my collection and hope to get more as time goes along!!  i think she was a very devoted wife and certainly a very loving mother....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 09, 2004, 12:27:44 PM
Did Nickolas and Alexandra bring their children to the wedding of Princess Louise in May of 1913? This was the last, big gathering of royalty prior to WWI and the demise of most of their positions. What was the full guestlist?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Annie on October 09, 2004, 12:35:07 PM
I know they all went to the wedding of Princess Viktoria Louise, the Kaiser's daughter, is that who you mean?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Forum Admin on October 09, 2004, 01:55:51 PM
The wedding  May 10, 1913 in Berlin was Marie-Louise, daughter of Emperor Wilhem to Prince Ernest-August of Cumberland, Duke of Brunswick.

The Imperial Family did not all attend. Nicholas went by himself with Prince Kotchubey (replacing Freedericks), Count Benckendorf, Gen. Dyedyuline, Mossolov and Prince Orlov. He arrived the day before and left immediately after the wedding that same day at 10pm.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Annie on October 09, 2004, 06:56:17 PM
Why was her autobiography called Viktoria Louise ???

I think there is a pic of the wedding dinner in her book if someone can scan it.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 09, 2004, 07:38:25 PM
Quote
Why was her autobiography called Viktoria Louise ???

I think there is a pic of the wedding dinner in her book if someone can scan it.


I have 2 double-page spreads from the wedding--one showing the torch dance (where VL was led by George V & Nicholas II--pretty nice!)  and the other showing the dinner. You can make out some of the personages. I know QM went but I don't think Alexandra did or any of their children. I'll try and scan.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eurohistory on October 10, 2004, 01:18:21 PM
Nicholas II and George V were at Viktoria Luise of Prussia's wedding to their first cousin Prince Ernst August of Hannover.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 21, 2004, 06:41:25 PM
Did anyone take note of the "making of" aspect to "The Lost Prince" recent TV movie regarding Princess Viktoria's wedding? It appeared as if it was a huge internationally publicized event and well attended by the royals we are all interested in. Are there any good pictures of the wedding, events surrounding the wedding, etc? Was Viktoria known to have had any special relationships with AF or her grandmother Vicky or her sister in law Cecilie?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Jim1026 on October 21, 2004, 07:12:37 PM
Quote
Did anyone take note of the "making of" aspect to "The Lost Prince" recent TV movie regarding Princess Viktoria's wedding? It appeared as if it was a huge internationally publicized event and well attended by the royals we are all interested in. Are there any good pictures of the wedding, events surrounding the wedding, etc? Was Viktoria known to have had any special relationships with AF or her grandmother Vicky or her sister in law Cecilie?

It was the last great gathering of European royalty before WWI.  A majority of those present lost their thrones and countries as a by product of the war. I have seen some pictures in various books although Wilhelm II was not a particular friend of the press.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 21, 2004, 11:40:08 PM
Quote
It was the last great gathering of European royalty before WWI.  A majority of those present lost their thrones and countries as a by product of the war. I have seen some pictures in various books although Wilhelm II was not a particular friend of the press.


It was apparently quite the event and was heavily covered. I have 2 graphic magazines commemorating it--it was greatly publicized in England. There'sa great 2 page spead of the dinner and one of the torch dance. She had a remarkably simple and elegant wedding dress. Very romantic, Romeo & Juliet story--right up my alley!  :) She and Cecile were quite close. There's some info on the relationship under the Cecile thread.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 22, 2004, 10:43:47 AM
I love the Romeo & Juliet aspects to VL's romance as well. But, I cannot unearth very much information that would indicate the romance and wedding had any of the European or worldwide attention that we saw when Princess Margaret or Princess Grace or Prince Charles were married. Or am I missing it? Seems to me the huge gathering of royals would have been a storybook event that the media and romantics would have gone overboard about. Plus it appears both Viktoria and her Duke were quite nice looking, making the whole event so much more engrossing. Were VL's cousins the Grand Duchesses of Russia attending?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 22, 2004, 08:35:24 PM
Quote
I love the Romeo & Juliet aspects to VL's romance as well. But, I cannot unearth very much information that would indicate the romance and wedding had any of the European or worldwide attention that we saw when Princess Margaret or Princess Grace or Prince Charles were married. Or am I missing it? Seems to me the huge gathering of royals would have been a storybook event that the media and romantics would have gone overboard about. Plus it appears both Viktoria and her Duke were quite nice looking, making the whole event so much more engrossing. Were VL's cousins the Grand Duchesses of Russia attending?


As I noted, it was covered really well in England (and I imagine in Germany). I have a couple dozen postcards just of the engagement period. I think it seems less covered today because many people (outside of our happy group!) aren't interested in most royalty of that era outside of the 'major' figures. Many today probably couldn't even tell you who VL & EA were.  They did make an extremely attractive couple--VL was the best looking of the Kaiser's children with very delicate features and EA was dashing in his uniform. According to VL's memoirs, they remained devotedly in love their whole marriage and she was distraught at his death.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eurohistory on October 26, 2004, 11:44:28 PM
And ready to fight it out with her son when the new head of the Hannover family tried to make her cut down on her expenses.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 10, 2005, 12:04:05 PM
In the book "The Last Empress" about Alexandra, the author states the Wilhelm escorted Alexandra in the wedding procession, so she must have been there.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 10, 2005, 12:38:51 PM
Quote
In the book "The Last Empress" about Alexandra, the author states the Wilhelm escorted Alexandra in the wedding procession, so she must have been there.


The information is incorrect.  Alexandra did not go to the wedding.  Some years ago, I wrote a long article about this wedding for Atlantis magazine, and used quite a lot of sources including the press coverage for the day.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 10, 2005, 09:01:17 PM
Thanks Marlene. Appreciate the correction. I do not recall the author of "The Last Empress" but shame on him or her for the historical error.
Do you have your article on Viktoria Luise's wedding available via email? Or, from what source would it be available? Thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 10, 2005, 09:03:58 PM
Also, would Wilhelm and Dona not have considered the absense of Alexandra to have been rude? Surely the wedding of the Emporer's daughter was a huge family event and would have been one of those 'necessary' attendances. I had also read nearly every top level royal person was attending, hence Alexandra's absense must have been very visible.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 08:46:03 AM
Quote
Also, would Wilhelm and Dona not have considered the absense of Alexandra to have been rude? Surely the wedding of the Emporer's daughter was a huge family event and would have been one of those 'necessary' attendances. I had also read nearly every top level royal person was attending, hence Alexandra's absense must have been very visible.


Probably not -- travel was not easy in those days -and Alexandra was probably not well.  Moreover, she was no fan of the Kaiser.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 11, 2005, 08:48:45 AM
Quote
Thanks Marlene. Appreciate the correction. I do not recall the author of "The Last Empress" but shame on him or her for the historical error."

It happens to all of us.  Greg King wrote the book.


Do you have your article on Viktoria Luise's wedding available via email? Or, from what source would it be available? Thanks!


The article is not available electronically.  It was published in Atlantis several years ago.  
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2005, 04:51:57 AM
I found a sketch of Victoria Luise's wedding.Very lovely.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/VLwed.jpg)

Let's try to recognize all famous characters.Queen Mary at the far left  - dignified as always. Certainly bride and bridegroom are kneeling in the centre. In front of Queen Mary - Nikolai II or George V? Dona and Kaiser by his left side? Or where is Dona?
A man at far right (in profile) could be Prince Heinrich?

Any ideas?


Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 17, 2005, 08:34:16 AM
Thanks SO much for the terrific sketch. I do believe the man next to Mary must be George V. Nickolas II I think is on the far right of the sketch partly cut off. Right above him to the left is the sister of Frederick III. I cannot figure out the woman in the front dominant position on the right. Cecilie? I am also guessing the four women with matching feature head gear are all ladies in waiting for Luise, not major personalities. There were tons of high level royal attendees at this wedding. This scene must be the Berlin Catherdral as the Lutheran minister is presiding.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Dennis on January 17, 2005, 02:20:17 PM
I think the man to the far right is George V, not Nicholas.

The ceremony may have been in the Berlin cathedral, I'm not sure.

But, the Church of Prussia was the Evangelical Church, or the Church of the Prussian Union.

This church was both German Lutheran and German
Reformed (more Calvinistic), having been forced together in a church union about a century or so before. As a family, the Protestant Hollenzollerns come out of the German Reformed tradition, going back to the Electors of Brandenburg.

Both Lutheran and Reformed ministers in Germany wore and still often wear the black ministerial gown and white bands, with pectoral cross.

Both tradtions consider themselves heirs of Martin Luther, though the Reformed also count John Calvin as their ancestor.  To most people today, there would be very little theological difference.

The Hannovers and others in northern Germany would have been Lutheran.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 17, 2005, 04:04:09 PM
.

"The ceremony may have been in the Berlin cathedral, I'm not sure."

No.  The civil ceremony tookplace at the Elector's Room at the Berlin Schloss, and then the bridal party made its way to the royal chapel where Pastor Ernst Dryander, royal chaplain, performed the wedding.  He had also baptised Viktoria Luise and confirmed her as well.

The Prussians considered themselves Lutheran, Wilhelm made many references to his Lutheranism. In John Rohl's second volume of his bio on KWII, Rohl writes about how furious was WII at Ella's conversion. And Wilhelm "shared the opinion of Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna, the Mecklenburg-born wife of Grand Duke Vladimir, that it was a "disgrave for a German Protestant princess to go over to the Orthodox faith in Russia at a time when both the Lutheran Church and her compatriots there were being persecuted and opressed in the most ruthless and injust manner."

Marie Pavlovna added that "the great, powerful German Reich and it's Kaiser" were now "the stronghold and the refuge" of the Lutheran church.

This is actually rather amusing, MP's comment as in 1908,  she converted to the Orthodox church.

Pastor von Dryander was Lutheran.  He died in 1922. In September 1918, KWII conferred on him the Order of the Black Eagle, and he became von Dryander.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 17, 2005, 04:36:06 PM
That's definitely Queen Mary on the far left and Tsar Nicholas II next to her. George V is the bearded man at the far right. I think the older balding man near GV is the groom's father Prince Ernst August so I would imagine that Thrya is near him somewhere, perhaps the lady next to him. Wilhelm II and probably Dona are on the left side of the couple. Perhaps some of the attendants behind the couple are some of the groom's sisters?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Dennis on January 17, 2005, 05:14:57 PM
Marlene,

Perhaps the Kaiser and the Royal family considered themselves Lutheran.  After all, Martin Luther was a German.  But, on Reformation Day,1817King Frederick William III introduced the union between the German Lutherans and German Reformed with a new litugy and the celebration of common services of Holy Communion.  This union may have been mainly administrative, but it did happen.  I think that by the time of Wilhelm II, the Prussian Church had assumed a more Lutheran identity.  The beautiful Lutheran Church in Jersusalem (near the Church of the Holy Sepluchre) and the Augusta Victoria Hospital were both built by Kaiser Wilhelm II and he and the Empress visited both.  

Marie Pavlovna converted simply because she thought it would improve her son's place in the sucession, as we all know.  I don't think KR's wife converted either.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 17, 2005, 05:52:20 PM


"Perhaps the Kaiser and the Royal family considered themselves Lutheran. "  They did.  

" After all, Martin Luther was a German."   Was he?  Huge grin  (I wrote  a children's play about the Luther.)    "But, on Reformation Day,1817King Frederick William III introduced the union between the German Lutherans and German Reformed with a new litugy and the celebration of common services of Holy Communion.  This union may have been mainly administrative, but it did happen."

Yes, I knew this ...

 "Marie Pavlovna converted simply because she thought it would improve her son's place in the sucession, as we all know.  I don't think KR's wife converted either.[/quote]

KR's wife did not convert ... having a wife who was not Orthodox did not affect childrens succession.  Marie Pavlovna's children had dynastic rights, even though she did not convert until 1908.  These rights were acknowledged after the train accident, with a commission ruling that Wladimir would have succeeded and his son would have been the heir (if Alexander III and his sons were killed in that crash.)
The fundamental laws do not require that the mother has to be orthodox except in the cases of the Tsar and the heir ...  Alexander II approved of Wladimir's marriage - and as we know, when Tatiana Konstantinova married, she renounced her rights, and these rights were acknowedged NIcholas II in his Ukase  - yet, her mother was not Orthodox.  

It was certainly a political move by MP - because she knew that Alexis had hemophilia, and Alix was unlikely to have other issue, so it was entirely conceivable that the succession would eventully have devolved on her son
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Dennis on January 17, 2005, 06:06:44 PM
Now that's really interesting!  After the train wreck there was a commission set-up to determine who would have come next in succession? I didn't know it went that far.  I do reading about the words of MP "We'll never be this close again," or something like that.

So then, Kyrill was the rightful heir after Michael?  Or, did his marriage to a first cousin put that into question?

Suddenly, we're not talking about the Hohenzollerns any more.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 17, 2005, 07:28:33 PM
Yes, this is discussed a LOT on another thread. There are the pro-Kyril and anti-Kyril forces and they really go at it.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 18, 2005, 06:55:22 PM
Did VL ever sail on her namesake Victoria Luise, the largest ocean liner on the seas around 1910? The ship sailed between Hamburg and New York?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 18, 2005, 08:26:15 PM
Quote
Did VL ever sail on her namesake Victoria Luise, the largest ocean liner on the seas around 1910? The ship sailed between Hamburg and New York?


VL never visited America, as far as I know.  Nothing in her memoirs or in newspaper indexes
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on January 19, 2005, 12:02:15 AM
I have seen pictures of Queen Mary from the wedding & the banquet, on her much admired toilette & suite of diamonds.  

Are there any photos of Alexandra from the wedding or the banquet in her finery?  Even in 1913 I have read she made quite a stunning impression when dressed for a state occasion in her jewels.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 19, 2005, 10:58:48 AM
Neither Queen Alexandra of Great Britain nor Empress Alexandra attended the wedding unfortunately. There are some more photos I believe in the thread on VL's marriage.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on January 19, 2005, 04:13:17 PM
Are you sure about Alexandra not attending. I have read several books about this being the last great gathering of Royals before WW I,   Willy & Dona,  Georgie & May, Nicky & Alicky.   Didn't Victoria Luise dance with her father, King George & Tsar Nicholas
during the dance as described in her book?  I could be
wrong, but I have read in several books about their
attendance at the wedding in Berlin.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 19, 2005, 04:50:10 PM
No, I'm prety sure that Nicholas was alone. It was the last gathering of major royals but not all were there. It was the last time George V, Nicholas II and Kaiser Wilhelm--3 of the most powerful royal figures were ever to meet. (As a matter of fact GV was the last British monarch to visit until EII visited in 1965)

VL did indeed dance the torch dance with the Czar on one side and George V on the other. Her husband had Queen Mary and Crown Princess Cecile. (They had previously danced with Wilhelm and Ernst August and Dona and Thyra). Must've been quite a sight!

VL recounts some of the royals arriving:
The first was GV and Mary--George wearing his Prussian uniform and being greated by Wilhelm & Dona (there's film footage of this).

Next came the Dowager Grand Duchess of Baden (Fritz's sister Louise), Prince Max of Baden and his wife (the groom's sister), the Duke and Duchess of Cumberland (Ernst and Thyra) and their daughter Olga.

Later that day came the Czar and there were again colorful welcoming ceremonies. He was wearing the Alexander Grenadier Guards Regiment uniform and the tall Frederick the Great cap. VL found this a 'truly imposing appearance' which caused a huge stir among the crowds gathered to welcome the guests.

Royalties took part in more than just the wedding ceremonies--reviewing troops, visiting battle practice, visiting castles and gardens in Potsdam and their countries respective embassies and other public events which greatly pleased the Berliners. Wilhelm and George V riding int eh annual spring parade at Potsdam was apparently a real experience to behold.

One little jaunt caused Wilhelm apoplexy though as the Czar snuck off with his brother-in-law Henry of Prussia for an automobile ride. No one knew they went and couldn't find them. Apparently the Czar enjoyed the freedom he found outside of Russia. Wilhelm however was furious since he saw himself as responsible for his safety and the German police were 'staggered' by the action.

After the wedding they stood in the receiving line under the canopy of the throne--VL and her husband with Wilhelm , Thyra, Queen Mary and the Czar on one side and on the other Dona, Duke of Cumberland, Cecile and George V.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 19, 2005, 05:26:26 PM
Absolutely positive that Alexandra of Russia did not attend the wedding ... this is noted in the press coverage at the time (ie the Times, NYTimes.)  I wrote about VL's wedding for Atlantis Magazine a few years ago.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Forum Admin on January 19, 2005, 05:39:21 PM
Spiridovitch also confirms that Nicholas went alone, arriving May 9 in Berlin with Prince Kotchuboy, Count Benckendorf, General Dyeduline, Mossolov and Prince Orlov. The wedding took place on the 11th, and Nicholas left Berlin that same evening at 10:30pm.  Nicholas and Alexandra presented a very important wedding gift of a huge Russian Malachite urn that was said to be the finest present given at the wedding by the Berlin papers.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 19, 2005, 06:12:27 PM
Were the royal guests at the wedding housed at the Berliner Schloss or the Adlon Hotel that Wilhelm financed to be a place where his guests could stay in "modern" surroundings vs the palace?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 19, 2005, 06:13:16 PM
The wedding banquet (I'm including the IDs of the guests):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/prussia/File1867a.jpg)

George V and Nicholas II in the uniforms of their respective Prussian regiments taken in Berlin. They loved getting their photo taken together, this would be the last:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/prussia/File1867b.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on January 19, 2005, 08:23:30 PM
Thanks for the photos.  I have read VL's memoirs some years I ago, don't have it in my collection.  I am suprised at A.F. not attending.  Thanks for correcting my misconception.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 20, 2005, 08:53:28 AM
Thanks GDella and everyone for the pictures. Is the dining celebration a photo or drawing? Also, would the guests have conversed in German?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: otmafan on January 20, 2005, 10:40:49 AM
This is a little "off-topic" but I found this picture on ebay quite some time ago, and I think it's a great picture.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/otmafan/victorialuiseandparents.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 20, 2005, 01:06:57 PM
Quote
Thanks GDella and everyone for the pictures. Is the dining celebration a photo or drawing? Also, would the guests have conversed in German?


there were no photos of VL's wedding - everything is a sketch.  I would guess that many guests spoke German, it depended on who you were sitting next to, I guess.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 20, 2005, 01:13:55 PM
Quote
I found a sketch of Victoria Luise's wedding.Very lovely.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/VLwed.jpg)

Let's try to recognize all famous characters.Queen Mary at the far left  - dignified as always. Certainly bride and bridegroom are kneeling in the centre. In front of Queen Mary - Nikolai II or George V? Dona and Kaiser by his left side? Or where is Dona?
A man at far right (in profile) could be Prince Heinrich?

Any ideas?

I have this sketch on a postcard (the sketch originally appeared in the Berliner Illustrierte).    On the left - the three are the duke of Cumberland, the Kaiserin, and George V.  
Nicholas II is on the right in front of Queen Mary.  The Duchess of Cumberland is next to the Kaiser.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Svetabel on January 21, 2005, 05:33:39 AM
Thanks,Ella and Marlene, for clarifying!  :)  Duchess of Cumberland is like not herself   ;)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 21, 2005, 09:40:28 AM
Quote
Thanks,Ella and Marlene, for clarifying!  :)  Duchess of Cumberland is like not herself   ;)


we are relying on the artist's rendition
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 21, 2005, 02:23:01 PM
Judging from the appearance of Viktoria Luise, I am guessing she is about 7 years old in the photo. Yes? If so, the photo would be vintage 1899 or so.
Did VL have a positive relationship with her grandmother Vicky? Dona looks so much older than a "Mom" and I am wondering if VL felt she had two grandmothers.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on January 21, 2005, 03:31:56 PM
Quote
Judging from the appearance of Viktoria Luise, I am guessing she is about 7 years old in the photo. Yes? If so, the photo would be vintage 1899 or so.
Did VL have a positive relationship with her grandmother Vicky? Dona looks so much older than a "Mom" and I am wondering if VL felt she had two grandmothers.



As Wilhelm had a difficult and estranged relationship with his mother,  it is unlikely that his children spent much time with her.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 22, 2005, 01:10:05 AM
According to VL's memoirs, no. She mentions her only in a few pages and it's not very postitive. She talks of Vicky being overly strict with Wilhelm's children--much more so she says than with her other grandchildren--and the bad way his father was treated. She doesn't lay all the blame on Vicky but goes into detail about how he's been maligned by the publication of Vicky's letters which were 'stolen' by Ponsonby rather than handed over. It's not an unduly harsh portrait of her, but there's no empathy or affection either. It seems that they saw each other only rarely and the visits were rather tense.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 22, 2005, 11:42:20 AM
What a shame. Then, Vicky's legacy of caring and social and political ideals really did end with her Fritz's passing and her own death. Even I would admit that Ponsoby's means of "sneaking" out the letters was not quite up and up, it would have been so historically beneficial for VL to have taken the high road and attempted to add reasons for the family's issues rather than take sides. Did VL ever rekindle a relatoinship with the Windsors? I don't think she was invited to Princess Margaret or Annes' weddings.

Also, I am still intertested if anyone knows if the contingent of guests for VLs wedding were accomodated at the Schloss or Adlon Hotel? The Adlon claims that George and Mary stayed there and I suspect it was the occasion of the wedding. Thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on January 22, 2005, 12:37:30 PM
According to "An Uncommon Woman" by Hanna Pakula, an EXCELLENT book, which I have unfortunately packed away,  all Ponsonby was doing was carrying out the wishes and request of the Empress Dowager.

It was during KE VII's last visit to his much beloved sister, she was wracked with the pain from the cancer, and she had a private audience with Ponsonby where she laid out her plans to have her letters and papers taken out of Germany, as she remembered what happened after her husband died at the Neues Palace, when William had his troops surround the house and they searched for his father's papers, looking for evidence of his Mother's "traitorous" activities against Germany.  Unfortunately he found none, during Fritz & Vicky's visit to England during QV's jubilee, they brought his papers to Windsor and deposited them in the archives there.   Vicky & her daughters were held captive in their home while William's soldiers tore apart the palace in search for papers.  She knew very well what would happen when she died.  

Being the intelligent woman she was, Vicky took the opportunity to ask Ponsonby to courier the letters secretly out of Germany and William's reach, and he did so.  I believe he stated that two couriers or more came to his doors at midnight after his visit with the Empress, bearing crates marked "china, fragile handle with care", or something to that effect.  When leaving Germany he was worried William's guards would search the luggage and inspect the boxes, however they did not, and he took the letters to England with him as requested.

While it may not have been on the up & up, had they not been taken to England, they probably would have been destroyed by William.   After Vicky's death he did the same thing as he did when his father died cordoned off, surrounded & searched her home for papers.

I cannot remember if or when he found out that both sets of his parents papers resided at Windsor.  When
Vicky's letters were published some years after WW I, when the Kaiser, assigned to obscurity, and still villified by many, tried to stop their publication & was unsuccesful and wrote a foreward to a version of the book.

I do know that Vicky did wish for a closer relationship with her grandchildren through William, however, William & Dona did not want her to influence their children at all, so they kept them at a distance, but she did have close relationships with Feo, Margaret's children, Sophie's children, and Henry & Irene's sons.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 22, 2005, 09:18:45 PM
I don't doubt that VL's memories were somewhat biased--she loved her father very much. She does contend though that Ponsonby embellished the story of how the letters were taken out and that version has passed into history. She takes several of his remarks about the Kaiser's whereabouts during the affair and says that newspaper accounts of the day prove he wasn't even at Friedrichshof at the time. That sort of thing. However it came about though and whoever was the villain of the piece, it's been great for us royal devotees and historians that the letters weren't destroyed and so much of them has been made public. Burning of letters *shudder*. Oh when I think of what Beatrice did and EVII and Alexandra got rid of a lot too. I'd love to read some of those letters to see what Alexandra may have really felt about some of Bertie's actions. You just think how much of our understanding of events and the personalities involved could be tilted in some way because these important pieces of historical evidence are gone forever.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 22, 2005, 09:28:10 PM
Amen! And it seems there is a renewed interest in looking beyond the hard and fast data we have to what might be in the missing documentations. Not only the missing information but also a reassessment of the data we have.
One must raise an eyebrow considering what could have been so concerning to cause people to burn forever any record.
Thus, the upcoming study group of a consortium of Germans, Finns, and Israelis who are focusing on the Wilhelmine Era will be most interesting.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on January 22, 2005, 10:58:07 PM
After reading a couple of accounts of what happened after Fritz died, I tend to believe Ponsonby.  Vicky knew that her only legacy to history & the world about what happened would be her letters.

Of course Victoria Louise would not have been old enough at the time to be involved in the incident. She was always protective of her fathers memory, and what she remembered would have been influenced by her father's side of the issue.

I am sure that those letters would not have made out oof Germany without the Empress's specific directions, and the complicity of Ponsonby or her brother E VII, nor would they have seen the light of day again.

It is lamentable that Q.A. & Pcss Beatrice destroyed the correspondence of  Q.V & of E VII, what a delight it would be to read them.  However we must congratulate the Empress Dowager's foresight, of knowing what would happen to her voluminous correspondence.  

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 22, 2005, 11:31:24 PM
And that Ponsonby had them whatever the circumstances since who knows what would've happened if Beatrice had gotten them!  ;)  I do know that there was quite a furor in the British royal family over the publication of the letters--'family matters' were still pretty private. Vicky had been shocked by QV's Leaves from a Highland Journal and the family upset when Louise's husband Lorne published a bio of QV right after her death.

The devil can be in the details I guess. I don't take any position in this, just passing on the details to stimulate discussion.

From Ponsonby's intro to his book:
Vicky was so tired during their meeting the nurse had to get him to leave; VL says that according to other accounts (including Vicky's diary which according to her is in possession of the Hesse family) she was feeling well that night and even went downstairs to listen to Sophie & Mossy play the piano

Ponsonby: dined that night with family, including Wilhelm; VL: newspapers prove that Wilhelm was in Berlin

Ponsonby has him at Kronberg Castle having different conversations with him while the letters were being taken out whereas the papers put him in Berlin

Who knows the true facts , the one indisputably thing is the historical value of the letters being published.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on January 22, 2005, 11:55:37 PM
As a child I remember going to my great grandmothers house.  One day in particular I can remember her being all done in, she had spent the day with her sister-in-law
"burning the letters & items" in Mama's old trunk. Well we found out some of those letters were from her grandfather in the civil war.  As I later became the family historian with roots & genealogy as intertwined as any
Royal Family's, it is often, that I lament us not getting to her house sooner that day!!  

Well I am sure the are some discrepancies on both sides of the issue, but like you, I am GLAD of the result.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 23, 2005, 11:56:04 AM
I agree, the good news is that the letters were saved and published. I love the comment about how we should be thankful Beatrice didn't get her hands on them! She was quite the letter-pyromaniac. Of course it is well worth pondering what could have been so damning in the letters, diaries, notes that Beatrice felt they had to be destroyed. Is there any indication that Beatrice passed on orally the contents of the letters that were so unpublishable? Who would she have confided in?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on January 23, 2005, 09:25:42 PM
The Royal Jewels site has some excellent photos of Victoria Louise in youth and in old age.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: VMC on January 25, 2005, 10:11:36 AM
I bought "The Kaiser's Daughter" yesterday and have just started reading through it....VL definitely has a different opinion concerning her father and his character than most everything that I've read on this forum would indicate....was he the villian that he has been protrayed to be or was some of it exaggerated...from what VL says in her book, he tried to keep Britain and Germany on friendly terms but didn't have much success w/King Edward but seemed to patch things up somewhat when King George and Queen Mary came to the throne....with so much German blood in the English Royal family, why were the British so germanphobics (that's my word, so no one jump on it)....so far, I've greatly enjoyed what I've read but I'm not sure that I have the same take on the "romantic" marriage of VL and EA.....it seemed to me to be more manufactured and contrived than a Romeo and Juliet love story.....so far, I've read that she was waiting for his house to figure out a way for him to be able to propose to her w/out doing do much damage to his standing concerning claims to the House of Hanover, etc....I find that Nicky & Alicky had a true romance and that love won out over political objections.....I just don't get that w/the marriage of VL and AE.....I don't doubt that they may have grown to love each other and remained devoted till the end but the beginning really sounds more like Queen Mary and King Edward or Tsar Alexander III and MF in that they settled on the next one....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 25, 2005, 11:58:29 AM
Welcome VMC! For a more kind and gentle set of opinions on Wilhelm, most of my own posts on this forum take that direction.  :) Losers in a wars always are the chumps. Even before WWI, Wilhelm had a bad image outside Germany, but there is much evidence that it was exaggerated and perpetuated by other nations/media who saw him and Germany as an unwanted threat. By the late 1800s and turn of the century, Britain had conquered 75% of the world's land mass, the U.S. was booming in every way, France had a huge global empire, etc. Quite simply, Germany was trying to get in the club and the big guns saw the German potential as quite large, even having the capability of surpassing one or more of them.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: VMC on January 25, 2005, 12:28:58 PM
Hello, HerrKaiser....I have always had a tremendous interest in Germany, WWII and prior....not so much after WWII....I have always believed that Germany did not necessarily get the fair end of the stick especially after WWI....if they had of, then we might not have had WWII....I was particularly interested to read in "The Kaiser's Daughter", VL state the terms of cease fire that her father was willing to negotiate with the Russians....basically back to status quo for both sides....no loss of land for either country.....if that had happened, it would be very interesting to see whether or not Germany would have won WWI w/Russia out of the picture....my money is on that they would have....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 25, 2005, 03:31:21 PM
I must get a copy of VL's memoirs and read it word for word. In addition to obvious facts, history is often a matter of perspective. VL was at a very interesting age and station in life to have a credible point of view; perhaps better than her brothers and more realistic than her father or mother.
The 'what ifs' about major world events taking a different turn can fill an ocean. We do know the causes, action, and wrap up of WWI should not have resulted in laying total blame on Germany.
I think VL did come to grips with her personal and nation's losses and made a good life of it. She did move on and I would like to know if in her last years, she had any final insights/comments on her life and the war.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: VMC on January 25, 2005, 03:43:37 PM
HerrKaiser.....I am bouncing around in the book.....I tend to not read books straight thru the first time but focus on sections that are of immediate interest....I've read thru a good bit of it and for the most part, she came to terms with the end of her era....so far it has been really good reading....she is fairly good at pointing out areas that she is now bringing her interpretation of events to by stating that due to the age of the events that they are no longer secret and that she can divulge her fathers wishes....apparently, Hindenburg treated the Kaiser fairly shabbily after his abdication by not admitting that he had convinced the Kaiser to abdicate so that the German public would stop insinuating that the Kaiser had abandoned his duty to Germany and basically run for the hills when the going got tough....Wilhelm II never forgot nor forgave Hindenburg for that and neither did VL....quite a few revelations that she makes really gets one to thinking about the ramifications that the end of WWI had on the world in general...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Angie_H on January 26, 2005, 04:57:57 PM
Was there any film footage of Victoria Louise's wedding?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 26, 2005, 08:08:23 PM
According to what others have said here, there were no photographs so I assume no film either. Only sketches. GDella posted a wonderful sketch of the bridal banquet above.
One would think however there ought to be film of some festiviites or guests the days before the wedding. Love to see them too.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on January 26, 2005, 08:13:46 PM
I believe that on that PBS special about the Windsors, there was a bit of footage from the arrival of some of the guests the day or so before the wedding. I recall footage of Queen Mary for sure I believe.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 26, 2005, 08:36:21 PM
There was some film of Queen Mary arriving and being greeted by the Emperor and Empress I believe. I also think I saw film of Wilhelm & GV driving through Berlin in a carriage with GV in his Prussian uniform.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: otmafan on February 26, 2005, 12:47:14 AM
Here's a cute portrait card I found on ebay (?)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/otmafan/vickylouise.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 26, 2005, 04:19:40 PM

Here are others from this series. There are also one of her in this outfit with Ernst and one with her mother Dona that looks like it was a doctored photo.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/hohenzollern/VL1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/hohenzollern/VL3.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/hohenzollern/VL2.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Val289 on February 28, 2005, 09:19:17 AM
Beautiful pictures - GDElla!   Thank you so very much for posting the rest in that series   ;D

-Val
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 01, 2005, 11:06:55 AM
Luise is ever so serene in these photos. Was she an international celebrity at the time? She could have been a real good ambassador for Germany.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: darius on March 03, 2005, 10:55:19 AM
Re. The tiara. The current wearer of the tiara is Letizia Princess of Asturias
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 03, 2005, 06:25:25 PM
Quote
Re. The tiara. The current wearer of the tiara is Letizia Princess of Asturias


It looks really lovely on her too--I just saw a photo of her in it. I wonder if it will just pass to her now or will stay with Sophia.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Tom on March 04, 2005, 08:45:30 PM
In her memoir, "Purgatory of Fools", Princes Metternich has an intriguing comment. She and her husband were fleeing the communists at the defeat of Germany and took refuge for a time at Wolfsgarten.  While they were there, Sophia of Greece/Hesse joined them with her children and her Hesse nephews.  Tatiana Metternich praises Sophia highly as "the heart and soul of our party"and then adds: "she was to get on beautifully with two proverbially difficult mothers-in-law." ---the Landgrafin of Hesse and the Duchess of Brunswick. Reading this, I imagined these two ladies, a grandaughter and a great-grandaughter of Victoria, as very grand matriarchs of the old school and became curious about their personalites. so the comments about the Duchess' later difficulty with her family over money was very interesting.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 04, 2005, 09:18:55 PM
Interesting. I wonder how difficult Mossy was--you always hear about her placid demeanor.  ???  She wouldn't strike you as a difficult MIL but you never know.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Iskenderbey on March 08, 2005, 01:16:28 PM
Can anyone shed some more light on the situation of VL and her children after EA's death?  Particularly maybe with Queen Frederika?
I read an excerpt from an old Greek newspaper commenting on something about VL writing in a greeknewspaper that her kids weren't taking care of her, that she was strained with Queen F, etc etc.
Any light?
By the way, I once saw her book, "the Kaiser's daughter", and I love a picture in the back, that has VL with all her Greek Family.  Great pic!
Regards and thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on March 08, 2005, 01:32:49 PM
Quote
Can anyone shed some more light on the situation of VL and her children after EA's death?  Particularly maybe with Queen Frederika?
I read an excerpt from an old Greek newspaper commenting on something about VL writing in a greeknewspaper that her kids weren't taking care of her, that she was strained with Queen F, etc etc.
Any light?
By the way, I once saw her book, "the Kaiser's daughter", and I love a picture in the back, that has VL with all her Greek Family.  Great pic!
Regards and thanks in advance.


VL did not have a good relationship with Frederika, nor with her eldest son, Ernst August, who tried to throw his mother out her home (claiming he could not afford the upkeep -VL took him to court --

this was covered in the German media as well as by the Associated Press in the 50s.  I included information about the caes in my book, Queen Victoria's Descendants.  It was not a pleasant situation.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 08, 2005, 03:35:16 PM
Did she always have strained relations with at least these 2 children or did it develop in adulthood? I had read once about the court case and that it got pretty ugly. Didn't EA wind up looking really bad in public opinion? VL was no shrinking violet--surprised he took her on.  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on March 08, 2005, 10:17:18 PM
Quote
Did she always have strained relations with at least these 2 children or did it develop in adulthood? I had read once about the court case and that it got pretty ugly. Didn't EA wind up looking really bad in public opinion? VL was no shrinking violet--surprised he took her on.  :)



Adulthood --  I think it became difficult for Frederika - in Greece and then in exile (and trying to forget her German birth.) ... For EA, it really started after his father died - but he was never a truly pleasant person.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 08, 2005, 11:22:18 PM
Too bad.  :(  You see the old family photos when the children were younger and they seem such a united family. Did they have a good relationship with their father--he seems to have been a nice man (at least based on what I've read). Did Frederika maybe blame her parents for the anti-German harassment she received? I know there are those who maintained that she had a Nazi background, etc... and those rumors dogged her for a very long time. Seems ironic that VL's aunt Sophie suffered basically the same thing.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 22, 2005, 10:21:34 PM
I saw this postcard and thought it really interesting. It would show what VL's dress looked like--now I just need to find one of Cecile's for HerrKaiser.  ;)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/hohenzollern/73_1_b1.jpg)

Maybe somebody better at German can translate? I made out 'bridal dress' and silver brocade and 'myrtle and orange blossoms'.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Frederika on March 23, 2005, 05:09:48 PM
VL took her son to court and wone she and frieddie had a bad relationship she visited her parents tree times after her marrige Vl was not invited to any of her granchildrens christing birthdays or wedding i dont think she ever met Yrene frederika never spoke to her mother again after her farther died they were close but she did not go to his funeral it was never revealed what caused this brake up in the family VL died in december 1980 friedie didnt attent the funeral Frieddie died of anasthiesia posining two months later her brother christian died in october the same year her seconed son George is still alive he is 90. :'(
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 23, 2005, 05:39:36 PM
Quote
VL took her son to court and wone she and frieddie had a bad relationship she visited her parents tree times after her marrige Vl was not invited to any of her granchildrens christing birthdays or wedding i dont think she ever met Yrene frederika never spoke to her mother again after her farther died they were close but she did not go to his funeral it was never revealed what caused this brake up in the family VL died in december 1980 friedie didnt attent the funeral


Regarding the last part, when I bought a German bio on Dona the seller was kind enough to throw in a bunch of articles on Victoria Louise. The front page of one the Braunschweiger Zeitung  (19 Dec 1980) had a good-size photo labeled:

(my translation)
Bottom photo (from right) Ernst August, Prince of Hanover , a son of the Duchess, her daughter Friederike, [former?] Queen of Greece, the Greek princess Alexia and her father Konstantine, ex-King of Greece, a son of Friederike.

It's a black & white photo but QF is distinguisable by her distinctive hairdo. The accompanying article noted that all her children were there and both CII and Queen Sophie of Spain participated in the funeral services. There was also a photo of CII and QS at the funeral.

In another article sent--from a magazine this time--there's a photo (it looks like from the mid-70s based on Sophie's hairdo) that shows: Quen Sophie, King Constantine with some of their mutual children (looks like Elena, Christina, Felipe and Crown Prince Pavlos and Alexia) with Anne-Maie and Queen Frederike. Another photo is from VL's 85th birthday and has Prince George Wilhelm of Hannover, Queen Friederike and Prince Welf Heinrich of Hannover.

Another magazine article (Der Spiegel) from her funeral:Other guests invluded Prince Louis Ferdinand (her nephew), Princess Donata of Prussia (wearing an old-fashioned pointy widow's cap), Prince Friedrich Ferdinand of Schleswig-Holstein and Ortrud; Umberto II of Italy, Princess Sophie of Hannover (VL's DIL). There's a better-quality photo of Friederike here.

Another from he 80th birthday (1972) shows Queen Sophie of Spain, Queen Friederike (in a _huge_ hairdo), Christina & Elena of Spain, Nicholas & Alexia of Greece, George Wilhelm of Hannover and his wife Sophie, Constantine II & Anne-Marie of Greece, Prince Christian of Hannover and his wife.

If my scanner was working I'd try to post.

So it seems the was still family contacts--maybe they improved in the years before her death? At least her eldest son attended as well.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Frederika on March 24, 2005, 04:41:36 AM
A relitive of mine who new a sevant of Vl said that she and frederika were completely estranged frederika not atending her 70th bithday she said that frederika never set foot in germany ever again but im more enclined to believe you that her

i would love to see these photos i havent seen any photos of friedie after 1967 i thought she had withdrawln from public life completly after 1974 so im very happy i hope your scanner works! :D
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mgmstl on March 25, 2005, 03:23:57 PM
Didn't Ernst August leave Viktoria Luise quite well off considering the war?    

It sounds as if her relationship with her children may have been as contentious as Vicky's with Willie & Charlotte.  

Were any of the grandchildren close with Viktoria Luise?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 25, 2005, 07:17:39 PM
Quote
I saw this postcard and thought it really interesting. It would show what VL's dress looked like--now I just need to find one of Cecile's for HerrKaiser.  ;)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/hohenzollern/73_1_b1.jpg)

Maybe somebody better at German can translate? I made out 'bridal dress' and silver brocade and 'myrtle and orange blossoms'.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 28, 2005, 06:12:12 PM
Thank you Grandduchess! Yes, it means "wedding dress" and the gown looks quite like that of a fairy tale princess, indeed. I do hope you are able to come across a photo of Crown Princess Cecilie as I suspect her bent for fashion and glamour led her to a very notable and regal gown and trappings.

Who would have been designer and dress maker for VL and Cecilie? Did the Court have their own internal artisans for such or did they shop "retail"? Thanks!

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Tasha_R on April 27, 2005, 03:43:53 PM
Trying again...

(http://img258.echo.cx/img258/6070/braunschweig1917a3au.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Tasha_R on April 27, 2005, 03:47:01 PM
I'll get the hang of this yet... ;)

(http://img127.echo.cx/img127/1619/kusinen8ul.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Speedycat on May 11, 2005, 08:58:35 PM
Quote
As a child I remember going to my great grandmothers house.  One day in particular I can remember her being all done in, she had spent the day with her sister-in-law
"burning the letters & items" in Mama's old trunk. Well we found out some of those letters were from her grandfather in the civil war.  As I later became the family historian with roots & genealogy as intertwined as any
Royal Family's, it is often, that I lament us not getting to her house sooner that day!!  


Oh my gosh, burning of Civil War letters!!  I remember my grandfather getting out his tin snips and cutting up old tintype photos taken in Ireland in the 1890s because he "couldn't remember who they were anyway, and besides that they're all dead".  My grandmother also had the habit of cutting certain people she disliked out of family photos!

BTW, is this Viktoria Loiuse?  Saw it on eBay and my poor knowledge of foriegn languages has me guessing the caption says "Auntie Princess"?  Viktoria with one of her older brothers' children?

(http://img217.echo.cx/img217/5703/tanteprinzesschen6cq.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on May 11, 2005, 11:33:20 PM
Yes that's Victoria Louise as the young aunt. I think it's Crown Prince Wilhelm's eldest son Wilhelm. There's a picture of the boy in the exact same pose/expression so I don't think he was actually photographed on her lap but it was doctored in. I have this card though and I think VL looks so pretty. Love that hat!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Frederika on May 12, 2005, 02:46:03 AM
do you have anypictures of old VL and younger frederika?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marc on September 10, 2005, 07:29:42 PM
She was indeed...thanks Crazy!Is there a chance that there is a portrait of Queen Friederica,?I have never seen one!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: crazy_wing on September 10, 2005, 07:33:36 PM
Fredrika of Greece?  No, i haven't seen any... sorry.  
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marc on September 10, 2005, 08:04:13 PM
Maybe a portrait of her husband Duke von Brunswick-Luneburg?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: crazy_wing on September 11, 2005, 02:21:50 PM
I would have posted them if i had found any.  Unfortunately there are none.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on September 12, 2005, 07:20:47 AM
Quote

Regarding the last part, when I bought a German bio on Dona the seller was kind enough to throw in a bunch of articles on Victoria Louise. The front page of one the Braunschweiger Zeitung  (19 Dec 1980) had a good-size photo labeled:

(my translation)
Bottom photo (from right) Ernst August, Prince of Hanover , a son of the Duchess, her daughter Friederike, [former?] Queen of Greece, the Greek princess Alexia and her father Konstantine, ex-King of Greece, a son of Friederike.

It's a black & white photo but QF is distinguisable by her distinctive hairdo. The accompanying article noted that all her children were there and both CII and Queen Sophie of Spain participated in the funeral services. There was also a photo of CII and QS at the funeral.

In another article sent--from a magazine this time--there's a photo (it looks like from the mid-70s based on Sophie's hairdo) that shows: Quen Sophie, King Constantine with some of their mutual children (looks like Elena, Christina, Felipe and Crown Prince Pavlos and Alexia) with Anne-Maie and Queen Frederike. Another photo is from VL's 85th birthday and has Prince George Wilhelm of Hannover, Queen Friederike and Prince Welf Heinrich of Hannover.

Another magazine article (Der Spiegel) from her funeral:Other guests invluded Prince Louis Ferdinand (her nephew), Princess Donata of Prussia (wearing an old-fashioned pointy widow's cap), Prince Friedrich Ferdinand of Schleswig-Holstein and Ortrud; Umberto II of Italy, Princess Sophie of Hannover (VL's DIL). There's a better-quality photo of Friederike here.

Another from he 80th birthday (1972) shows Queen Sophie of Spain, Queen Friederike (in a _huge_ hairdo), Christina & Elena of Spain, Nicholas & Alexia of Greece, George Wilhelm of Hannover and his wife Sophie, Constantine II & Anne-Marie of Greece, Prince Christian of Hannover and his wife.

If my scanner was working I'd try to post.

So it seems the was still family contacts--maybe they improved in the years before her death? At least her eldest son attended as well.


Do you live in Braunschweig?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marc on September 13, 2005, 09:10:30 AM
Thanks so much Crazy for posting them!If you find some more portraits,please post them!You can also post them in Hanoverian portraits thread in Windsor section!One more time thank you for your beautiful postings!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Lucien on October 24, 2005, 06:29:27 AM
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/seegerpress-cgi/topixx?op=preview&ID=1076504505&str...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 24, 2005, 01:37:48 PM
I think VL and Ernst were a smashingly good looking couple...in the same class as Vicky and Fritz. Their above average looks without the #10 looks of Princess Diana combined with their stateliness that seems to be leveraged by a humaness of character, just grabs me with the notion that "highness" really means something.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 25, 2005, 01:19:09 PM
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6678/scan003a4xc.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 25, 2005, 01:26:19 PM
Scans from the book "Bilder der Kaiserzeit" by Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9067/geschwister19014pm.jpg)
with her brothers

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3091/scan002a7ew.jpg)



Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 25, 2005, 01:48:36 PM
Having a picknick on Viktoria Luise's 18th Birthday

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9273/scan007a2pe.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3141/scan007ab3ai.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6116/scan008a7ik.jpg)
Viktoria Luise (sitting)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2440/scan008ab9ve.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4562/scan010a3to.jpg)
Auguste Viktoria with Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8523/scan009a4vy.jpg)
Something Auguste Viktoria wrote about her little daughter

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2693/scan011a7xt.jpg)
Viktoria Luise with the Emperor

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8581/scan012a9ny.jpg)
Viktoria Luise on board of the "Hohenzollern"

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8258/scan013a3zl.jpg)
With her father

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7279/scan014a9si.jpg)
Heinrich of Prussia with his wife (it's Irene, isn't it?) and Waldemar
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 25, 2005, 01:59:29 PM
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2838/scan015a9kc.jpg)
Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4951/scan018a1lx.jpg)
A letter from Viktoria Luise to her father

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4094/scan019a9hy.jpg)
Auguste Viktoria with August Wihelm and Joachim

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9938/scan021a9hz.jpg)
Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5108/scan022a7tv.jpg)
Joachim and Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2926/scan023a6ma.jpg)
Joachim and Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3733/scan024a4wg.jpg)
on the left: Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1266/scan025a0vo.jpg)
Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2395/scan026a3et.jpg)
Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2443/scan016ab8cj.jpg)
Viktoria Luise with a lady-in-waiting
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 25, 2005, 02:08:40 PM
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1426/scan017a1mp.jpg)
Crownprince Wilhelm

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/543/scan020a3fy.jpg)
Cecilie

From the wedding:
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5567/scan027a8xi.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4549/scan028a1wg.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/9591/scan029a3fs.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/466/scan001a4le.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1029/scan030a1fs.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6742/scan031a6qk.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1853/scan032b7wt.jpg)
The Crownprincely Couple

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5745/scan033a8up.jpg)
Cecilie with Wilhelm
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 25, 2005, 02:18:25 PM
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5056/scan034a7fn.jpg)
Viktoria Luise's invitation for the christening of her nephew

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4118/scan035a0jx.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5734/scan036ab5ul.jpg)
Prince Wilhelm, son of Wilhelm and Cecilie

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8260/scan036a8dc.jpg)
Louis Ferdinand

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6251/scan037a2pm.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4872/scan038a1kt.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8205/scan039a7va.jpg)
In the middle Viktoria Luise and Auguste Viktoria

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2993/scan039ab4ft.jpg)
Second from left: Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8687/scan040a9yn.jpg)
on the right: Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6132/scan041a0hx.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 25, 2005, 02:30:14 PM
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8660/scan042a9sv.jpg)
Viktoria Luise 1909

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8021/scan043a8ov.jpg)
Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3280/scan044a0yk.jpg)
Viktoria Luise (on the horse)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/3712/scan045a7cq.jpg)
Viktoria Luise

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6580/scan046ab1fl.jpg)
Viktoria Luise (on the right)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/269/scan047a9yn.jpg)
Viktoria Luise with her Regiment

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2835/scan048a8en.jpg)
With August Wilhelm and his wife

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5461/scan048ab0yk.jpg)

(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2662/scan049a9nd.jpg)
Viktoria Luise (in white)

(http://img415.imageshack.us/img415/1630/scan050a9op.jpg)
Viktoria Luise on the right and her father on the left
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 25, 2005, 05:30:53 PM
Great photos Julia.  :) I'd had that book on my 'to buy' list and I guess it's worth it. Are there anymore photos left.  ;)

Quote
(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2838/scan015a9kc.jpg)
Viktoria Luise




There was a similar picture in Charlotte Zeepvatt's Queen Victoria's Family that ID'd this as Joachim (and commented on the curls) and showed him with 2 other siblings. Are you sure it's VL?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 25, 2005, 05:31:48 PM
Quote


(http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8260/scan036a8dc.jpg)
Louis Ferdinand



Talk about a bad hair day!  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: otmafan on October 26, 2005, 08:01:31 AM
Quote
Great photos Julia.  :) I'd had that book on my 'to buy' list and I guess it's worth it. Are there anymore photos left.  ;)


There was a similar picture in Charlotte Zeepvatt's Queen Victoria's Family that ID'd this as Joachim (and commented on the curls) and showed him with 2 other siblings. Are you sure it's VL?


I think you're right, GDella. Victoria Luise is shown in that photograph wearing a dress.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 26, 2005, 08:18:17 AM
Quote
Great photos Julia.  :) I'd had that book on my 'to buy' list and I guess it's worth it. Are there anymore photos left.  ;)


There was a similar picture in Charlotte Zeepvatt's Queen Victoria's Family that ID'd this as Joachim (and commented on the curls) and showed him with 2 other siblings. Are you sure it's VL?

There are photos left! I can't scan all , because I just borrowed it from the library and will have to bring it back soon. :'( I love this book!!

About the photo:
The title says, that it is Viktoria Luise photographed in Joachim's scotish clothes

"Die Schottentracht
Meine Mutter notierte in ihrem Tagebuch:
"Manche Träne hat sie schon über das Mädchenkleid vergossen. Strahlend war sie, als sie in Joachims schottischem Anzug fotografiert wurde." "

As the book is written by Viktoria Luise herself, I think she is right.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: otmafan on October 26, 2005, 08:25:19 AM
Quote
There are photos left! I can't scan all , because I just borrowed it from the library and will have to bring it back soon. :'( I love this book!!

About the photo:
The title says, that it is Viktoria Luise photographed in Joachim's scotish clothes

"Die Schottentracht
Meine Mutter notierte in ihrem Tagebuch:
"Manche Träne hat sie schon über das Mädchenkleid vergossen. Strahlend war sie, als sie in Joachims schottischem Anzug fotografiert wurde." "

As the book is written by Viktoria Luise herself, I think she is right.



Well, I definitely wasn't aware that it said that she was dressed in Joachim's clothes. I assumed seeing the outfit that Joachim would be dressed in it. Sorry about the confusion.

Keep the pics coming! They're great!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 26, 2005, 02:40:53 PM
Quite interesting that VL wrote a letter to her father in the midst of the war in English. And, Cecilie wrote to VL before the war in English. Why was English used in such casual writings? I would have thought German was spoken and written entirely except amongst foreign relatives. Even then, didn't QV usually speak German around the German family? thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on October 26, 2005, 03:56:37 PM
Quote
Quite interesting that VL wrote a letter to her father in the midst of the war in English. And, Cecilie wrote to VL before the war in English. Why was English used in such casual writings? I would have thought German was spoken and written entirely except amongst foreign relatives. Even then, didn't QV usually speak German around the German family? thanks!

1. The letter was written in 1905 , not during the war
2. In her books VL explains that the Imperial children spoke very much in English, because they had English nannies.

In "Im Galnz der Krone", she tells a cute anecdote of Eitel Friedrich:
"How much we lived with that language (English) when we were children, shows an incident, that happened in the first year of schooling of my brother Eitel Fritz:
His teacher asked him if he knows what animal was on the Coat of Arms of the House of Prussia. The teacher was shocked about the answer the prince gave him. He understood: "An hedgehog"
Yes, the teacher was really shocked!
Our mother had some trouble to appease him. The misunderstanding was that Eitel Fritz, who of course knew the eagle on the prussian Coat of Arms, had just said it in English: "Eagle" and that really sounds like the German word "Igel" (means hedgehog)."


Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 26, 2005, 05:07:34 PM
Ah yes, I thought the digit was a 1, but I see it is actually a 0.

Is there any further explanation or insight as to why the Kaiser's family were using English nannies? With the strong sense of national pride and the love/hate sort of relationship with the English, not to mention William's "blame" of the English doctor for causing his arm to be deformed, it strikes me as yet another ambiguity of William's character. What were the nationalities of the nannies for the Romanovs, the Windsors?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 26, 2005, 11:40:12 PM
I think English nannies were widespread through QV's family. Charlotte Zeepvatt is working on a book on this I believe.

I know that Victoria Milford-Haven had a German maid and Irene a British one and the two swapped on the outbreak of the war.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: crazy_wing on October 27, 2005, 01:38:31 AM
Quote
I think English nannies were widespread through QV's family. Charlotte Zeepvatt is working on a book on this I believe.

I know that Victoria Milford-Haven had a German maid and Irene a British one and the two swapped on the outbreak of the war.


I think English nannies were not only popular with QV's family but also other royals and nobels as well.  The Romanovs long had English nannies before Alix married Nicholas.   English governesses were also very popular with the rich and in demand throughout Europe.  As far as why the English nannies and governesses were so popular back then, I am not quite sure.  I guess it has something to do with their educational level.  I believe England was much more advance in women rights than any other country in Europe back then and thus, the women were more educated.  

Yes, Charlotte Zeepvat is working on a book about English nannies called "From Cradle to Crown: British Nannies and Governesses at the World's Royal Courts".  It will be released in April, 2006.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Bernardino on January 16, 2006, 07:28:40 AM
Apparently (if I'm not mistaken) this Princess wasn't named after her grand-mother Vicky...Then was she named after anyone or the parents just did like the names ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on January 16, 2006, 09:49:38 AM
She says in her first book that she was named Viktoria after her grandmother, the Empress Friedrich and her great-grandmother the Queen of England; Luise after Queen Luise of Prussia

Her full name was Viktoria Luise Adelheid Mathilde Charlotte, and a lot of titles  ;D
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: jfkhaos on January 16, 2006, 11:14:34 AM
If I remember correctly, in Hannah Pakula's book on Vicky, it is stated that Viktoria Luise was named after Queen Victoria, but not after the Empress Frederick.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: julia.montague on January 16, 2006, 12:36:20 PM
Quote
If I remember correctly, in Hannah Pakula's book on Vicky, it is stated that Viktoria Luise was named after Queen Victoria, but not after the Empress Frederick.

???
Maybe she was wrong as Viktoria Luise wrote, what I said, herself.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marie-Liesl on January 16, 2006, 12:54:08 PM
There´s a pic of Viktoria Luise in her later years:

http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/hohenzollern/hhzemperors1/1892%20Viktoria%20Luise-08.JPG
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 16, 2006, 05:07:24 PM
Vicky wrote to Queen Victoria that she was told explicity by William and Dona that VL was not named for her. She was wounded to say the least.  :(
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: rita on January 17, 2006, 03:28:59 PM
"Am Geburtstag meiner Mutter, dem 22.Oktober, wurde ich getauft. Meine Eltern wählten für mich den Namen "Viktoria Luise". Viktoria nach meiner Großmutter, der Kaiserin Friedrich, und meiner Urgroßmutter, der Königin von England; Luise nach der Königin Luise von Preußen......
aus: Viktoria Luise, Mein Leben, Köln 1984
Erstveröffentlichung 1965
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 17, 2006, 05:30:07 PM
What Dona told Vicky upon the birth of VL could have easily been changed years later when others told VL about the past. Surely, by the time VL wrote her memoirs, she could have been uninformed about some items of her ancestors' comments and situations. She may also have felt a sense of remorse and loss that she never got to know Vicky very well. hence she may have truly wanted to be named after her wonderful Grandmother, but Dona's snub of Vicky was a lowpoint in Vicky's period of rejection.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Teddy on February 03, 2006, 02:31:09 PM
Is there not a wedding picture of her, with the other Royal Guests?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 03, 2006, 05:40:20 PM
There are some sketches and some faux wedding photos. Apparently there aren't often photos taken of Hohenzollern brides.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 03, 2006, 04:54:39 PM
Just "bumping up" this interesting thread if any one else is interested! :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 04, 2006, 03:55:02 PM
Victoria Louise was always chic. I just purchased a bunch of postcards of her.

I think the above picture was from 1907 when WII came to England--the pictures of the family gathered at Sandringham and on the shooting party were from this visit. I know I've just seen the image in a magazine.  :-\ He paid 2 visits, I believe, to England after QV's funeral while EVII was King.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Svetabel on August 04, 2006, 04:00:11 PM
Victoria Louise was always chic.

Yes, she was chic but never really pretty IMHO. BTW, it's always amusing to see a Royal lady of the beginning of the 20 cent. SMILING in many photos of her! :) Really, it seems VL smiled at the camera very naturally.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 04, 2006, 04:13:12 PM
Thank you GD Ella, just something in the face doesn't remind me of Beatrice. Apparently Alexandras sister-in-law were never invite to Sandringham. I can believe it might be Louise though, she was a favourite with Arthur and Bertie...

I agree Svetabel, Viktoria was a real smiler!! :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 04, 2006, 09:54:27 PM
I think it was Helena that wasn't invited but I'm not sure. The Schleswig-Holsteins appeared at many of the shooting parties so it would be odd if they didn't stay over. Maybe it's a myth or they had a home nearby? Or perhaps Helena didn't accompany Christian--he's usually the one seen in the photos of the parties.

It could be Helena in the picture as well--her son Albert is in it--and Helena was not only WII's aunt, but Dona's as well, through her husband Christian. They tended to be closer to the Prussian family than many of the other family members because of this and it was increased when Albert became heir to the S-Holstein Dukedom. Albert actually wound up serving in the German Army during WW1 despite his English birth because of this fact. He was also there in the well-known photo series taken of Vicky and her children & children-in-law around 1898.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 04, 2006, 10:25:13 PM
Victoria Louise was always chic.

Yes, she was chic but never really pretty IMHO. BTW, it's always amusing to see a Royal lady of the beginning of the 20 cent. SMILING in many photos of her! :) Really, it seems VL smiled at the camera very naturally.

Oh, I think she was very pretty. Here's my favorite series of her--one of my favorites of any princess, actually.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/146407aw.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/84632VLw.jpg)(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/17w.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 04, 2006, 10:25:34 PM
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/bc301w.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/4425VLw.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/hohenzollern/VL1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 04, 2006, 10:35:43 PM
But you're right, she did like to smile, especially when she was with Ernst August. Here they are newly married:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/2308571w.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/147852bw.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/2416w.jpg)

I love their tightly clasped hands. They were much more affectionate in photos than other royals of that era. A real love match.  :)                         
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 04, 2006, 11:03:10 PM
Here's what VL writes of her first meeting with her future husband:"For me, it was love at first sight. Suddenly, I was all fire and flame." Dona even recorded that he 'certainly made animpression on my child from the first'. VL took her parents into her confidence but it seemed a rather hopeless situation due to the on-going feud between the families. The Kaiser wasn't willing to 'sound out' the Duke for fear of a public rebuff. Prince Max of Baden, married to EA's sister, was enlisted as a go-between, as was CPss Cecile (whose brother was married to another of EA's sisters). VL was fairly sure of EA's feelings but Cecile, after talking to EA, was able to confirm this. Soon secret phone conversations were taking place between the couple. Still, everyone worried about the Duke of Cumberland's reaction. Finally, 'against all opposition' EA 'put forward his proposals to his father and found it was no easy going.' Eventually, though, the news that the 'difficulties had been overcome' came.

Eventually, a meeting in Karlsruhe at the home of the Dowager GDss of Baden (Wilhelm II's Aunt Louise) was held. After EA met privately with WII for 45 mins, VL and Dona joined them. After a few minutes, Wilhelm and Dona left. As VL wrote 'for the first time we saw each other without anyone else being present. Alone. An indescribable moment.' Dona & WII rejoined them after an hour and VL ran to her father and 'told him I was now engaged.' However, 'suddenly, there was an almighty crash.' EA had knocked over 'a huge vase containing some big, long-stalked flowers which had been standing on one of those small, elaborate tables which cluttered the salons' of the period. 'My mother, scared by the noise, gave a mighty shriek but, looking at the scene, all we could do was smile in great amusement. My freshly-new fiance, however, just stood there amid the heap of fragments, visibly embarrassed, holding the bunch of flowers from the broken vase in front of him, not knowing what to do'.

Dinner, however, was a cheerful affair though the Dowager GDss 'looked somewhat shocked at our behaving at table like lovers' since she was, as yet, unaware that the engagement had taken place. She, needless to say, was quickly informed and the engagement was made public that same day.  'What followed seemed like a fabulous dream.'

When the wedding took place EA's ' 'yes' rang out so loudly and clearly that I had to follow suit and when we joined hands in front of the altar he clasped mine very firmly, insisting that his thumbs were on top of mine. You see, there's an old folk-tale which says that if the husband does not have his thumbs above those of his bride at the wedding ceremony then he will have no say during his marriage.' The Pastor looked 'shocked' at this but EA and VL 'just smiled at each other'. The 2 spent their honeymoon at Gmunden, 'climbing in the mountains and walking through the woods' there.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 05, 2006, 04:12:23 AM
Thats very sweet GD Ella, they look very happy in the photos.

Not to get of topic but I think it was a nephew (?) of Queen Alexandras who said she never invited any of her sister in laws to Sandringham and preferred to fill the house with her Danish relations. I don't know if I quite belive that. Like you say if Helena and Christian appeared at the shooting parties they must have stayed their, Sandringham is in the middle of now where!!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Keith on August 05, 2006, 05:46:20 AM
I had read that somewhere also, but just pertaining to Bertie's sisters not the in-laws. Louise being the only one invited to stay at Sandringham. I've never seen any pictures of Helena in the shooting party pictures, even though I have noticed Christian in quite a few. I've gotten the impression that Alexandra wasn't that fond of Helena.

When this popped up under VL, I realized I had really gotten us off topic. Sorry, I should probably post this under the Windsor section.

I did bring this up under Alexandra on the Windsor page. Sorry for any confusion.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 05, 2006, 06:32:57 AM
I was referring to Berties sisters (Alixs sister-in-law) :) Maybe Alix thought Helena and Christian "To German" :-\

Have never seen any pictures of Helena in the shooting parties either :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on August 05, 2006, 08:38:19 AM
Victoria Louise was always chic.

Yes, she was chic but never really pretty IMHO. BTW, it's always amusing to see a Royal lady of the beginning of the 20 cent. SMILING in many photos of her! :) Really, it seems VL smiled at the camera very naturally.

Oh, I think she was very pretty. Here's my favorite series of her--one of my favorites of any princess, actually.



I approve. I think that she was really beautiful but that the photographs of the time always did not emphasize.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 22, 2006, 12:34:15 PM
As the only daughter of the Kaiser and sister to 5 brothers, VL was quite the "fairytale" princess of her day. And the youngest of WII's children. I too think she had a beauty and attractiveness, in that solid German way, that exudes piety, properness, and serenity. VL aged quite gracefully, as well, and in spite of decades of tragedies galore, she remained a beautiful woman until her passing in 1980.

her wedding does indeed rank as one of the premier royal events of all time. The dashing and handsome duke-groom marrying the beautiful, sweet emperor's daughter amidst the grandeur and glitter of nearly all the crowned heads of Europe...for the last gathering ever.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 23, 2006, 10:44:56 AM

VL aged quite gracefully, as well, and in spite of decades of tragedies galore..


That's interesting, could you tell us more about these tragedies please?  Where was she in her final years? Did she live in a style worthy of her position as a Princess? Amazing to think she lived on until 1980.

I agree her wedding was very splenedid. Queen Mary went down very well I recall!!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 23, 2006, 11:25:46 AM
I think it was more unhappy events then tragedies but some include:

overthrow of her family's dynasty and her father's exile

brother Joachim's suicide

troubled relations with some of her children when they were grown--most notably with her daughter Frederica (Queen of Greece) and her eldest son--this involved a particularly nasty spat over finances

her daughter's exile from Greece

I can't really think of any that were truly tragic, except for her brother's suicide--she didn't have any murdered family members, she was close to her parents and siblings, all her children were healthy and survived into adulthood (many living very long lives, her one son just passed away a few months ago), she had many grandchildren.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Guinastasia on August 24, 2006, 06:58:46 PM
Victoria Louise was always chic.

Yes, she was chic but never really pretty IMHO. BTW, it's always amusing to see a Royal lady of the beginning of the 20 cent. SMILING in many photos of her! :) Really, it seems VL smiled at the camera very naturally.

Oh, I think she was very pretty. Here's my favorite series of her--one of my favorites of any princess, actually.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/146407aw.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/84632VLw.jpg)(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/17w.jpg)

I love that tiara-isn't that the one her father gave her as a wedding present?  It's presently owned by VL's granddaughter, Queen Sophie of Spain:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/History/princess20Sofia2019381.jpg)

I think she then loaned it to her daughter-in-law, the Princess of Asturias, for her wedding. 

I remember in Kaiser's Daughter Victoria Louise said that Sophie had always been one of her favorite grandchildren and that she was very thrilled when she married Juan Carlos.  Although she (VL, that is) described Ena as her aunt.  I guess back then, second cousins or what have you were often referred to as aunts and uncles?

BTW, did she and Frederike clash over politics as well?  I know VL was anti-Nazi (or at least, seemed so in her book), and Frederike was rumored to have Nazi-sympathies...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 24, 2006, 08:39:06 PM
It was a wedding gift from Kaiser Wilhelm II to his daughter. The tiara has been worn at Frederica's wedding then Sophie's then Letitizia's. Maybe a couple decades from now it will be at Leonore's.  :) I know the Infanta Christina has worn it but I don't know if she did at her wedding or not.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 25, 2006, 12:21:55 PM
is the tiara all diamonds? Is there any photo of it close up and on display?

did WII customarily purchase jewelry for his wife and daughter in the spirit of Nickolas? I know he actually designed a tiara for Dona, which is somewhat over the top, so to speak. Thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 25, 2006, 02:05:21 PM
Yes, the tiara is diamonds. It has the Greek Key style on the bottom with a swinging center diamond pendant.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/spain-31.jpg)

Victoria Louise

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/Prussian20Diamond20Tiara2C20prcc20V.jpg)

Frederica
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/4d_11.jpg)

Queen Sophia
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/SGreece19621.jpg)

Infanta Christina
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/CrisE21.jpg)

Letitzia
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/520898881.jpg)(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/felipespain1241.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 25, 2006, 09:04:48 PM
thanks GD! looks great! Did VL get photographed wearing this in her last years?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 26, 2006, 12:30:56 PM
yes, it looks like it might be her heritage tiara, thanks much GDella. Not completely sure though. I suspect VL had other such pieces or at least access to borrowing them as needs arose.

good for her that she would appear in a strapless gown at her age!

didn't we have another thread on VL in past months? can't seem to find it; maybe just a brain hiccup.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 26, 2006, 03:17:07 PM
She did have another tiara she wore quite frequently and this was the one she was seen in when she was older. I think it's the one she wore at her wedding, though there isn't a photograph of her in her wedding dress (just those collage photos that show her in her 'wedding gown').


(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/hannover-0211.jpg)(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/preussen1.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/HAN20Duchess.jpg)(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/jewels/hannover1.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 27, 2006, 11:48:09 AM
thanks for the photos! Would she not have inherited the tiara and jewel collection of the house of Ernst August? He must have had a fairly large collection.

also, did VL and QEII ever meet in later years?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on August 27, 2006, 12:54:22 PM
I'm not sure if she did. She visited England on occasion but they were more private visits. Prince Philip visited his sister, Sophie, who was married to VL's son, George Wilhelm, but I don't know if EII accompanied him. Also, Philip was at Frederica's wedding but EII wasn't there. So there were opportunities due to various familial connections but I don't know if any actual meetings took place.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 27, 2006, 02:01:10 PM
Interestingly, I never quite used the obvious term that VL's son was the "brother in law" to QEII. That is a close relationship that never is put forth in mainstream media; the German/English family rift obviously not one that QE would want to publicize, I guess. Wonder what WII would have thought of his grandson being closely tied back to the royal family?  ;)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on August 31, 2006, 11:13:11 AM
I enjoyed reading Herr Kaiser's post of Aug 22. I think it is very true of Viktoria Luise, and the lovely pictures of her as well were worth seeing. She was lovely, if perhaps in a specifically german way. She was obviously happy with her husband, and had happiness in her marriage that not all royals found. I have a high opinion of her.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Keith on August 31, 2006, 04:19:16 PM
They did meet at Herrenhausen in 1965 when QEII was in Germany. According to her autobiography, they talked about VL's grandchildren who Elizabeth had just seen in Salem, and the last time they met (1930's) was mentioned.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 31, 2006, 11:21:12 PM
Does anyone have photos of the meeting between VL and QEII? I do believe Herrenhausen was destroyed by allied bombs in WWII and thought it was not rebuilt. The gardens are beautiful, nonetheless. thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Keith on September 01, 2006, 05:58:05 AM
I've never seen any, and their aren't any in her book, the American edition anyway. VL doesn't come out and say it, but it seems to have been a private visit and  not part of the State visit to Germany, so any pictures may just be in their private photo albums.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Teddy on September 02, 2006, 03:00:31 PM
Did the Empress Alexandra of Russia attend the wedding of Ernst August and Viktoria Luise or not. I'm confused. Sometimes Alix is mentioned and sometimes not.

And was Queen Wilhelmina invited to this wedding. Because I saw on a website that she had send a wedding present to the wedding couple. Or is it normal to send "something, a present", if you don't been invited?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on September 02, 2006, 08:35:38 PM
No, Empress Alexandra absolutely, positively did not attend the wedding.

Queen Wilhelmina may have been invited but not gone. It would've been proper, I guess, to invite your fellow monarchs bit it could be quite a hassle for them to come. NII and GV had close familial relations with WII and his family that Wilhelmina lacked.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 07, 2006, 10:34:21 AM
Did the Empress Alexandra of Russia attend the wedding of Ernst August and Viktoria Luise or not. I'm confused. Sometimes Alix is mentioned and sometimes not.

And was Queen Wilhelmina invited to this wedding. Because I saw on a website that she had send a wedding present to the wedding couple. Or is it normal to send "something, a present", if you don't been invited?

Being confused is understandable, but GDella is right that Alix, sadly, did not attend the last grand gathering of royals. It was a splendid array of crowned heads in all their glory with stunning jewels, gowns and uniform finery. The pomp must have been beyond imagination in a quintessential fairy tale setting with the handsome duke and his beautiful princess bride. another unfortunate aspect is that no photos exist of the key ceremonies and processions.

The confusement about Alexandra arises from a few published pieces that have claimed she WAS there. One notable is the book "The Last Empress" in which the author indicates that the empress attended, as I recall from a few years back. I haven't seen any particular reasons why she did not come, but security was an issue at least. She also did not like being away from the needs of her son.

Interestingly, were there many children invited/attendiung the wedding? Kids are not mentioned often. thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on September 07, 2006, 12:11:11 PM
I think Pss Mary might have gone with her parents but, if she did, I don't think she attended the ceremony.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on October 09, 2006, 05:01:31 AM
http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=80bx.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=169ch.jpg

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on October 09, 2006, 05:04:18 AM
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3999/allemagne2hrcpaviktorialuise2hj6.th.jpg) (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=allemagne2hrcpaviktorialuise2hj6.jpg)

(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7813/allemagne2hrcpaviktorialuise1uh0.th.jpg) (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=allemagne2hrcpaviktorialuise1uh0.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on October 09, 2006, 05:04:38 AM
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4296/allemagne2hrcpaviktorialuise3il0.th.jpg) (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=allemagne2hrcpaviktorialuise3il0.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on October 09, 2006, 08:57:57 AM
Those new photos you posted were lovely, and thanks for them. Victoria Luise did fit the image of a German princess of that era that her father would have wanted perfectly in those military uniform photos. And she looks lovely in that white dress, I have always liked that set of photos. :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 10, 2006, 02:08:52 PM
Yes, Viktoria Luise had lovely photos in the early days. Regarding the photos of her in uniform, it was and still is common for woman in the immediate royal ffamily to don uniforms for certain state events. There are several pictures of Olga with NII in uniform, for example, and QEII frequently wore uniforms of orders that seemed to appear as masculine. So the women-in-uniform is not particularly a German stereotype. I just wish poor Viktoria Luise had a better military hat designer who considered her size before putting that huge thing on her! :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on October 11, 2006, 09:02:35 AM
Yes, it wasn't a German stereotype, but she does seem very much the Kaiser's daughter. She liked things like this, and was a tomboy more than most princesses in these old photos in uniform. To some of them, it was merely ceremonial, part of their position.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Djedj on October 14, 2006, 01:01:01 PM
Re. the gift from the Queen of Holland-

The Times, May 24 1913 :
BERLIN, MAY 23
Among the wedding gifts sent toPrincess Victoria Luise and Prince Ernst Augustus are an Oriental carpet from the Sultan of Turkey, a silver eagle for the table from the Duke of Genoa, old Roman silver vases from the King and Queen of Italy, and an old Frisian grandfather's clock from the Queen of Holland. An offering of bread and salt in silver cellars from a Breslau girls' school drew a warm telegram of thanks from the Princess.-Reuter.

I would have posted some postcards from VL in the uniform of her regiment, but ZarevnaOlga posted them for me  ;D
You missed one though (it's hiding on another page) :
(http://www.hussards-photos.com/Allemagne/Allemagne_1HR_CPA_BIG2.JPG)

It is to be noted that Viktoria Luise's Regiment was called "2. Leib-Husaren Regiment Königin Victoria von Preußen Nr. 2", after the Kaiser's mother "Vicky", who was "Chef" of the Regiment from 1888 to 1891.
It was then sort of natural that Viktoria Luise would hold the same position...
Cheers,
Jerome
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 14, 2006, 01:52:07 PM
thank you, Jerome, for the wonderful photo and news article. The Reuters news article is very intriguing, in particular, the notation about the girls school in Breslau that sent VL the bread and salt, a more eastern European custom.

Was this article from the New York Times?

It seems so like VL to have responded warmly to the humble gift from the school girls. VL had such grace and humility throughout her life.

Are the gifts listed remaining as part of the Brunswick estate? thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Djedj on October 14, 2006, 03:20:35 PM
My pleasure, HerrKaiser, to discuss the wedding of your beloved daughter  ;D

That's excerpted from The Times - the real British thing.
I'm afraid I don't know what became of the gifts ; instead here are some "picturesque" snippets about the wedding :

About the Suite of King George V :

The Times, Saturday, May 17, 1913
The suite of the King and Queen will be the Duchess of Devonshire, Mistress of the Robes, Countess Minto, Lady-in-Waiting, Lord Annaly, Lord-in-Waiting, the Earl of Shaftesbury, Lord Chamberlain to the Queen, Lord Stamfordham, Private Secretary, Sir James Reid, Physician in Ordinary, Rear-Admiral Sir Colin Keppel and Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Frederick Ponsonby, Equerries-in-Waiting, and Mr. Harry Verney, Groom-in-Waiting. Attached to the King will be General von Loewenfeld, Vice-Admiral von Krosigk, the Colonels of the King's two German  regiments, and the German Military and Naval Attachés in London. Attached to the Queen will be Countess Harrach and Baron von Wangenheim.

A "Mistress of the Robes"...now ladies how do you feel about that ?  ;)

The Times, Monday, May 26, 1913
Royal Wedding. Picturesque Scenes And Ceremonies

(...)
THE TORCH DANCE
After dinner began the ancient and most picturesque ceremony of the Fackeltanz. It was led by the Chief Marshal, Prince Fürstenberg, and 12 pages who-taking the part formerly filled by Prussian Ministers, among whom once was Bismarck- carried wax candles. The Bride and Bridegroom came into the centre, and while the band played a polonaise proceeded round the room. The Bride then danced with her father on one side and the Duke of Cumberland on the other, and the Bridegroom with the Empress and Duchess of Cumberland.
The Tsar and King George then danced with the Bride, and Queen Mary and the Crown-Princess with the Bridegroom. Then in turn the Bride and Bridegroom danced with the whole company of Princes and Princesses. It was observed that the Emperor William broke the ceremony by kissing the Bride when she led him back to his place. The ceremonies ended with the distribution of pieces of the Bride's garter bearing the Arms of the bridal pair.

(...)

If you want to see more Royalty in uniform (incl. the "Bride and Bridegroom"), I have dedicated a page of my website to that very topic (well they're all in Hussar uniform) :
http://www.hussards-photos.com/RoyalHussar_home.htm

Salutations,
Jérôme
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Svetabel on October 15, 2006, 03:29:53 AM
Interesting info,Djedj. :) And your site is wonderful.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on October 15, 2006, 10:49:29 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/onboat.jpg)
Princess Viktoria Luise on board Imperial yacht " The Hohenzollern " with
her sister-in-law Crown Princess Cecilie and three sons Hubert, Louis Ferdinand
and Wilhem, her father Kaiser Wilhelm II and her brother Oscar
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 15, 2006, 10:46:20 PM
It's her brother Adalbert who is on the Hohenzollern with them. He was the only one of the 6 sons to forgo an Army career for a Naval one.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 16, 2006, 10:11:41 AM
As the gene pool orientated in the early 20th century, the Hohenzolllerns emerged a very good looking family.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on October 16, 2006, 12:13:37 PM
I think so; they were not that good lookimg earlier though. ;) Anyway, it seems often Victoria Luise was often remembered for her wedding-it sort of became a legend, because it was the last such wedding by an accident of fate.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on October 17, 2006, 08:26:12 AM
It's her brother Adalbert who is on the Hohenzollern with them. He was the only one of the 6 sons to forgo an Army career for a Naval one.


Oh yes, of course, it's Adalbert ! I don't know why I confused him with Oscar... ::)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on November 25, 2006, 04:30:57 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/aug1.jpg)
Princess Viktoria Luise with her Mother Empress Augusta Viktoria
in carriage, at the time of her engagement with Prince Ernst August of Hanover
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on November 26, 2006, 06:45:07 PM
After having read of her mother's silly hats, I can see why from this picture. It is overkill. But, Victoria Luise's hat looks lovely on her.What was Victoria Luise's relationship with her mother? Does anybody have any info? She was her only daughter, indeed. The Kaiserin was a very good mother, I know that.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on November 26, 2006, 10:03:21 PM
While Victoria Louise was the protypical 'Daddy's girl' and rather tomboyish, she seems to have been very close to her mother and you get the feeling from her memoirs that she considered the Kaiserin the glue that held the family together.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on November 27, 2006, 08:27:38 AM
That was indeed a role that Dona played. It is interesting that the daughter of the Kaiser and his Kaiserin, Dona, who were both rather interesting characters was a much more normal person. She wasn't that much like either one of her parents in their bad traits, and yet seemed to have some of their better ones. Most of their children if not all, were relatively normal from what I know. I guess I find that rather surprising. But after all, look at the way the Kaiser turned out despite Vicky's careful parenting.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on November 27, 2006, 08:50:09 AM
They had some disastrous marriages though--Alexander Wilhelm and Eitel Friedrich were divorced, Joachim was heading that way before he committed suicide, Wilhelm & Cecile had a Xenia/Sandro type marriage by the end--together in name only, Adalbert's wife was extremely unstable--only Oskar and Victoria Louise had stable, enduring marriages.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on November 28, 2006, 10:37:42 AM
That's interesting in light of the fact that the Kaiser and Dona's marriage was fairly happy.They were both complicated people, but enjoyed a happy marriage, that wasn't strictly arranged. Actually, both of the Kaiser's marriages were happy despite the fact that he was a difficult man. Dona was a bit difficult, although his second wife seems like she was a pushover, of sorts or maybe not? But having such parents, and their marriage, although it worked, might have cast some shadows across their own mariages, perhaps?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on November 28, 2006, 03:06:04 PM
I don't know the exact circumstances of how each of the marriages came about but here's a rough outline:

August Wilhelm & Alexandra Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein--she was Dona's niece and 'Auwi's' first cousin; I imagine that came into contact due to this close relationship--whether it was a love match that went bad or was pushed by one side or the other I don't know; they divorced in 1920 and she married a commoner in 1922 (div 1933)

Eitel Friedrich & Sophie Oldenberg--she seems to have been a rather difficult character while he was amongst the more easy-going, uncomplicated of the children; she was connected to the Hohenzollerns as well since her late mother (she was the only child of that union) was a Prussian princess (sister of the Duchess of Connaught) and I believe her father was a friend of Kaiser Wilhelm's--they might've pushed the union but these two were really ill-suited; she remarried, a commoner, a year after the divorce

Oskar and Ina von Bassewitz--she was a lady-in-waiting that he fell in love with and eventually got permission to marry

Wilhelm & Cecile of Mecklenberg-Schwerin--they seem to have been happy enough in the beginning though I don't know if it was ever a love-match so much as she was a very eligible and attractive princess (her mother being the former Grand Duchess Anastasia M of Russia and her sister being Crown Princess Alexandrine of Denmark); her had affairs and they drifted apart after the Revolution (he spent time in exile whereas she was allowed to remain in Germany) but they appeared at family occasions together and seemed to remain friendly

Victoria Louise & Ernst August--their marriage has been gone over in this thread but it was a love-match and they seem (based on VL's memoirs) to have remained very happy until the end

Adalbert & Adelheid of Saxe-Meiningen--she had severe emotional problems and spent years in and out of sanitariums; I think that he at least loved her, I don't know enough about her to say what she felt, and stood by her; he was probably the most well-adjusted of the sons and adjusted well to life post-Revolution, settling in Switzerland and taking the name Count Lingen; she was the niece of Bernhard of Saxe-Meiningen who was married to Adalbert's aunt Charlotte

Joachim & Marie Anhalt--I don't know how the marriage came about, just that it happened during WW1 (1916) and quickly fell apart; he commited suicide in 1920
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on November 30, 2006, 10:46:55 AM
Thanks for all that info! But, with so many children, and the fact of the strains these marriages must have been under after World War I, ( were some made after that date?),  and the fall of the Hohenzollern dynasty, it isn't surprising that they ended up as they did.I wonder how much it was the personalities involved, or was it more the circumstances? If the Hohenzollern dynasty had endured, perhaps these marriages would not have been so bad, because things were more stable.  :-\
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on November 30, 2006, 01:59:09 PM
I think it was the personalities. The Revolution and post-WW1 era probably made it easier to obtain a divorce than otherwise.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on November 30, 2006, 02:27:51 PM
It did, and the marriages would most likely have stayed intact even with their troubles had it not been easy to get a divorce. If they had still been reigning members of the Prussian dynasty, it would have been hard for them to divorce. Many royal marriages stayed intact despite many troubles, largely because they must. It's good that Victoria Louise's marriage was happy though, and it certainly makes you think things are meant to be when you look at the circumstances of her marriage.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 05, 2006, 02:01:21 PM
After having read of her mother's silly hats, I can see why from this picture. It is overkill. But, Victoria Luise's hat looks lovely on her.What was Victoria Luise's relationship with her mother? Does anybody have any info? She was her only daughter, indeed. The Kaiserin was a very good mother, I know that.

Yes, the hats were big, but that was actually the style of the day. Dona liked the bigger hats, and I think her physical stature and hair worked out well with her choice of hats. Mary, in England, surely had no resistant to flamboyoant hat either. Once the royals were being seen more in public during the early 1900s, hats replaced the tiara as headgear on the women. And the more grand the hat, the more stature the person wearing it seemed to have as a self image or in reality.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 06, 2006, 03:00:40 PM
are there any good photos of VL's brother in law, the older brother of her husband who was killed, whose death created the situatoin in which VL and Ernst met? thanks.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on December 06, 2006, 03:36:48 PM
It would be interesting to see a picture of this young man, who brought together these two young royals through his death, in a way he could not have imagined. Also, it would be interesting to read any info on him, that anyone might have. Their marriage wasn't extremely dynastically important, although she was the Kaiser's only daughter, he was of little importance dynastically. She could have married higher, for sure. But, she chose to marry for love, and then her marriage became important since it was the last royal marriage of prewar Europe. I wasn't making fun of Dona with the hats, I was just referencing a comment that Nicholas II made in a letter, which, in my opinion, the photo confirmed to me.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 06, 2006, 05:47:48 PM
His name was was George Wilhelm and there are pictures of him on the thread on his mother Thyra.

He was certainly honored by his brother (the only surviving son out of the 3) in the names of his children:

Ernst August Georg Wilhelm Christian Ludwig Franz Joseph Nikolaus Oskar (the 3rd set of names, Christian Ludwig, was the name of the other brother who died)

Georg Wilhelm Ernst August  Friedrich Axel

Christian Oskar Ernst August Wilhelm Viktor Georg Heinrich

Welf Heinrich Ernst August Georg Christian Berthold Friedrich Wilhelm Louis Ferdinand

All 4 of the sons had the 2 names in there, as well as their father's, who was named for his own father.

Georg Wilhelm only died pretty recently--he was the 2nd husband of Prince Philip's sister Sophie of Greece.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2006, 10:21:52 AM

VL's marriage was a good dynastic marriage.  Her husband was the de jure king of Hannover, and, even better, a British prince.  Victoria Luise was a British princess by marriage.  Her marriage was approved by the British king,  and the birth of their first son, in June 1914, had the required witness - and noted in the Court Circular that the new little prince was HH and Prince of the UK of Great Britain and Ireland.  (He was HH as a British prince, but he was also HRH as a Hannoverian prince.)

It would be interesting to see a picture of this young man, who brought together these two young royals through his death, in a way he could not have imagined. Also, it would be interesting to read any info on him, that anyone might have. Their marriage wasn't extremely dynastically important, although she was the Kaiser's only daughter, he was of little importance dynastically. She could have married higher, for sure. But, she chose to marry for love, and then her marriage became important since it was the last royal marriage of prewar Europe. I wasn't making fun of Dona with the hats, I was just referencing a comment that Nicholas II made in a letter, which, in my opinion, the photo confirmed to me.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 12, 2006, 04:35:54 PM
The strong ties that bound the British and Hannover royal families as well as the Hohenzollern were severed by the British during and after WWI. Did the German side of the family "disown" their english family members and strip them of German titles in the same manner that George V and his family did to them?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on December 12, 2006, 04:58:20 PM
Not as far as I know. I think they had drifted apart by then, anyway. About Queen Victoria's time, it seems they did not have that much in common, as they were the descendants of one of her father's brothers who was not well liked in England, the King of Hanover. As far as I know they didn't have that much contact after Queen Victoria ascended the throne. They were related, but it was more a relationship by blood than affection, I believe. Yes, her marriage was a good dynastic marriage, I was only saying she did not become a consort because of it.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 12, 2006, 08:23:14 PM
I don't know if Wilhelm II but then there wasn't really the pressure to do so. George V had obligations as a constitutional monarch that Wilhelm II didn't--namely, taking public opinion into consideration. I'm not sure if the 'enemy' monarchs and princes were removed from their honorary regiments or not or were stripped of orders--perhaps they were given up voluntarily given the deep animosity.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 12, 2006, 08:28:12 PM
Not as far as I know. I think they had drifted apart by then, anyway. About Queen Victoria's time, it seems they did not have that much in common, as they were the descendants of one of her father's brothers who was not well liked in England, the King of Hanover. As far as I know they didn't have that much contact after Queen Victoria ascended the throne. They were related, but it was more a relationship by blood than affection, I believe. Yes, her marriage was a good dynastic marriage, I was only saying she did not become a consort because of it.

Nonetheless, it was a relationship that Wilhelm II, at least, actively cultivated--even during his uncle's reign when personal relations were more tense. Wilhelm II was very pleased to be invited by George V to unveil the statue of Queen Victoria and made a very public visit to England--there were even rumors of a betrothal between the Prince of Wales and Victoria Louise. George V travelled to VL's wedding--he didn't attend many foreign functions, family or otherwise--with Queen Mary and he was godfather (along with NII and Franz Josef) to VL's first son. George V wasn't very fond of his cousin but he got on with him much better than did his father--he was closer to Prince Henry, who visited more often, both being simpler men who served in the Navy.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2006, 08:51:51 PM

The German emperor did not have the power to take away German titles as the British royals were not Prussian Princess.
In 1917,  George V never stripped anyone of their German titles.  he could not do that.   He and other members of the family renounced their German titles, and those who had German titles were given British ones.  The 1919 Titles Deprivation Act removed the peerages from the Dukes of Cumberland and Albany and Viscount Taafe (who was not royal).  The Duke of Albany was also the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.  He also was stripped of his British HRH, but george V could not remove his title Prince of the UK because that was Charlie's right of birth, as a grandson of the Sovereign in the male line.



The strong ties that bound the British and Hannover royal families as well as the Hohenzollern were severed by the British during and after WWI. Did the German side of the family "disown" their english family members and strip them of German titles in the same manner that George V and his family did to them?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2006, 09:00:14 PM
Victoria maintained very good contacts with her cousin George (King Georg V) and his family.  When Princess Friederike wanted to marry a mere Baron (and the marriage was not favored by her father),  Queen Victoria arranged for the marriage to take place at Windsor - as she noted Friederike was also a British princess.  The Duke of Cumberland's wife, Thyra, was the younger sister of the Princess of Wales - the future Queen Alexandra - which made George V and Victoria Luise's husband - first cousins.
After Hannover was annexed by Prussia, and the family went into exile.  In Britain,  Ernst August and his siblings were styled "of Cumberland"  before the war.
Not as far as I know. I think they had drifted apart by then, anyway. About Queen Victoria's time, it seems they did not have that much in common, as they were the descendants of one of her father's brothers who was not well liked in England, the King of Hanover. As far as I know they didn't have that much contact after Queen Victoria ascended the throne. They were related, but it was more a relationship by blood than affection, I believe. Yes, her marriage was a good dynastic marriage, I was only saying she did not become a consort because of it.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2006, 09:05:23 PM


Auwi and Alexandra's marriage was arranged.  The kaiser wanted all of his children to marry well.  Sophie Charlotte fled from the marital home, and had to be brought back -- Eitel Friedrich was gay.  He pursued men with the same enthusiasm as the Crown Prince had for women.

I don't know the exact circumstances of how each of the marriages came about but here's a rough outline:

August Wilhelm & Alexandra Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein--she was Dona's niece and 'Auwi's' first cousin; I imagine that came into contact due to this close relationship--whether it was a love match that went bad or was pushed by one side or the other I don't know; they divorced in 1920 and she married a commoner in 1922 (div 1933)

Eitel Friedrich & Sophie Oldenberg--she seems to have been a rather difficult character while he was amongst the more easy-going, uncomplicated of the children; she was connected to the Hohenzollerns as well since her late mother (she was the only child of that union) was a Prussian princess (sister of the Duchess of Connaught) and I believe her father was a friend of Kaiser Wilhelm's--they might've pushed the union but these two were really ill-suited; she remarried, a commoner, a year after the divorce

Oskar and Ina von Bassewitz--she was a lady-in-waiting that he fell in love with and eventually got permission to marry

Wilhelm & Cecile of Mecklenberg-Schwerin--they seem to have been happy enough in the beginning though I don't know if it was ever a love-match so much as she was a very eligible and attractive princess (her mother being the former Grand Duchess Anastasia M of Russia and her sister being Crown Princess Alexandrine of Denmark); her had affairs and they drifted apart after the Revolution (he spent time in exile whereas she was allowed to remain in Germany) but they appeared at family occasions together and seemed to remain friendly

Victoria Louise & Ernst August--their marriage has been gone over in this thread but it was a love-match and they seem (based on VL's memoirs) to have remained very happy until the end

Adalbert & Adelheid of Saxe-Meiningen--she had severe emotional problems and spent years in and out of sanitariums; I think that he at least loved her, I don't know enough about her to say what she felt, and stood by her; he was probably the most well-adjusted of the sons and adjusted well to life post-Revolution, settling in Switzerland and taking the name Count Lingen; she was the niece of Bernhard of Saxe-Meiningen who was married to Adalbert's aunt Charlotte

Joachim & Marie Anhalt--I don't know how the marriage came about, just that it happened during WW1 (1916) and quickly fell apart; he commited suicide in 1920

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: José on December 13, 2006, 11:36:22 AM

 The 1919 Titles Deprivation Act removed the peerages from the Dukes of Cumberland and Albany and Viscount Taafe (who was not royal). 




Who was Viscount Taafe ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 13, 2006, 01:28:10 PM
From what I can tell:

The family had been one of the leading families in Ireland. In 1628, Sir John Taaffe was raised to the peerage as Viscount Taaffe of Corren. The 2nd Viscount had accompanied Charles II into exile and, after the Restoration, had diplomatic postings in Austria. Eventually, some of the family settled in Austria (in the late 1600s-1700s), served in the Austrian military and at Court and held Austrian titles as well as the Irish peerage. The Irish holdings, but not the title, would be claimed by a Protestant relative and the 6th Viscount would become a naturalized Austrian citizen. The 11th Viscount was Prime Minister of Austria. It was the 12th who lost the Irish peerage in 1917 since he was an Austrian, serving in the military.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 14, 2006, 06:27:53 PM


Auwi and Alexandra's marriage was arranged.  The kaiser wanted all of his children to marry well.  Sophie Charlotte fled from the marital home, and had to be brought back -- Eitel Friedrich was gay.  He pursued men with the same enthusiasm as the Crown Prince had for women.




would it be fair to suggest that the Hohenzollerns were more "accepting" of what may appear as flaws in their familly members than the Windsors were? they did nothing to hide the retardation of Alexandrine and I gather Eitel's being gay was not as closeted as one might imagine.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on December 18, 2006, 09:44:40 AM
It was illegal to have homosexual relationships at that time in Germany so I would not think that the family was enthusiastic and sought to cover Eitel with a wife.

"quote author=HerrKaiser link=topic=327.msg232230#msg232230 date=1166142473]


Auwi and Alexandra's marriage was arranged.  The kaiser wanted all of his children to marry well.  Sophie Charlotte fled from the marital home, and had to be brought back -- Eitel Friedrich was gay.  He pursued men with the same enthusiasm as the Crown Prince had for women.




would it be fair to suggest that the Hohenzollerns were more "accepting" of what may appear as flaws in their familly members than the Windsors were? they did nothing to hide the retardation of Alexandrine and I gather Eitel's being gay was not as closeted as one might imagine.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on December 18, 2006, 10:08:15 AM
I think what the last poster says is true. I think all Royal families of the time prefered to keep their darker sides under wraps. Who can blame them, because in that day and age judgement about such things was harsher than it is today. Even as late as the 1950s, Princess Margaret could not marry who she loved because he was divorced. That says something. At the Prussian court, blood was everything, and being of proper royal blood. That was why Moretta could not marry Sandro of Battenberg, prince though he was, because he was a morgantic prince. I think the Hohenzollerns were pretty aware of their public status, and anything that might make them look less than good.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 18, 2006, 11:33:43 AM
His morganatic blood was only part of the issue. He was ruler of Bulgaria at the time and his cousin, Tsar Alexander III, was engaged in trying to overthrow him--which eventually he succeeded in doing. Bismarck probably didn't care overmuch about morganatic blood but he did care about keeping relations with Russia and marrying the Kaiser's granddaughter/daughter/sister (as she was in that one year) to a despised prince wasn't on his agenda. But that, of course, is a topic for the Moretta thread so I won't get further off-topic.  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 18, 2006, 05:12:53 PM
The New York Times reported a failed love affair between Victoria Louise and the Hereditary Count Fugger (who was an officer in the Gardes du Corps at the time and a scion of an old, and wealthy, German family) which caused VL to have a nervous collapse and sent to St Moritz to recover. (The marriage was supposedly forbidden due to rank and religion, the Fuggers being devot Catholics) Was there any truth to this story? It was supposed to have occured in early 1912. The Princess did go to St Moritz at the time due to 'an affliction of the throat'.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on December 19, 2006, 05:01:25 PM
I've never heard that before, but it might well be true. But, unlike her aunt Moretta, Victoria Luise was one to rise above these things, and try again in a positive way. But, that shows the Hohenzollern regard for rank and blood, that overcame almost everything. They certainly did care what the public and court thought, even though few liked the Kaiser, for sure. I would love to learn more about this, and thanks for mentioning it. Victoria Louise did marry someone suitable in the end, but she married them for love as well, and got the best of both worlds. If this was true, it was more temporary than lasting, but it makes her seem more human.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on December 19, 2006, 11:06:10 PM
Yes ... but her father stopped it - it wasn't just rank and religion ... he was a ladies man. The Washington post goes into more detail.

The New York Times reported a failed love affair between Victoria Louise and the Hereditary Count Fugger (who was an officer in the Gardes du Corps at the time and a scion of an old, and wealthy, German family) which caused VL to have a nervous collapse and sent to St Moritz to recover. (The marriage was supposedly forbidden due to rank and religion, the Fuggers being devot Catholics) Was there any truth to this story? It was supposed to have occured in early 1912. The Princess did go to St Moritz at the time due to 'an affliction of the throat'.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on December 20, 2006, 12:30:14 PM
Could someone post some of either of those newspapers here so I could read it? Yes, the Kaiser and his wife were very proper, so they would not have wanted her with a Catholic low ranking ladies man. That's a bit like how Nicholas and Alexandra wished to prevent Olga from any much more suitable matches with relatives who had rather bad reputations on that side. I think Victoria Luise was always pretty much proper herself as well, so maybe the marriage would not have worked out, had it been allowed to happen.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on December 20, 2006, 01:27:03 PM
The New York Times digital database is available at many public and university libraries.  Your local library may have it .  Mine does - all you need is your library card and password ... local libraries offer all sorts of things.  You can also access the digital archives through the NYTimes itself - but you would have to pay for the article.  The New York Times will not give permission to post their material on websites - unless you pay a hefty fee to them.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on January 28, 2007, 09:40:47 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vaj.jpg)
Princess Viktoria Luise posing with her mother Auguste Viktoria and her brother
Joachim

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/brothandsis.jpg)
Viktoria Luise and her brother Prince Joachim posing together
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 28, 2007, 11:37:21 AM
thank you for these wonderful images. I think VL has all the appearances of a lovely fairly tale princess--her ever so sweet looks, the youngest child and only daughter of a powerful emperor, 6 older brothers, an aging but elegant mother, etc etc. She surely does not get the volume of press for such "marketable" attrributes others with similar situations did and do now, obviously due to anti German bias in english speaking nations since the mid 1880s. Poor Viktoria Luise. She really was a fairy tale image who may not have received her due in terms of global popularity and celebrity, but she did get her prince charming, which many never got.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 28, 2007, 07:25:50 PM
She received a good deal of press in the US, Great Britain, as well as in Republican France in her time--especially as she neared marriageable age.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on January 30, 2007, 09:23:07 AM
thank you for these wonderful images. I think VL has all the appearances of a lovely fairly tale princess--her ever so sweet looks, the youngest child and only daughter of a powerful emperor, 6 older brothers, an aging but elegant mother, etc etc. She surely does not get the volume of press for such "marketable" attrributes others with similar situations did and do now, obviously due to anti German bias in english speaking nations since the mid 1880s. Poor Viktoria Luise. She really was a fairy tale image who may not have received her due in terms of global popularity and celebrity, but she did get her prince charming, which many never got.



I agree she might have had  even more favorable press if World War I hadn't happened. She was married of course before that even started, but she wasn't given much attention after, that I know of. In some ways, that might be because she was married, and was not a eligible and beautiful princess of Prussia any more, but rather a beautiful but married royal from Hanover. Do you agree with that? Otherwise, I agree with all the points you made, and you put them well. I've often wondered why she seems to have been ignored by history, which she surely is, despite any amount of contemporary attention, as the last poster said.That could well stem from anti-German bias.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2007, 12:56:35 PM
I don't think it's so much anti-German bias (though there could be an element of that) so much as she did have a fairly happy life. By the standards of modern day eyes--and modern biographers--she probably isn't that interesting. She was attractive, but not a legendary beauty, married young--and happily--had a decent life, despite the War and some conflicts with her children--and died an old woman of natural causes. There isn't the element of scandal or great drama or tragedy to use as a 'hook' if one wanted to write about her. Like many of Queen Victoria's relatives--including many of the English ones so no bias there--she has faded into the background of royal history.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 30, 2007, 01:21:27 PM
In spite of my personal sense that VL has a great deal of appeal, I agree that from a mass media standpoint, there's not much of a "hook" to generate sizzle and controvery and drama from VL's life. That said, however, I think the anti-German bias does trump even the best of media hooks. Things German are just not played out well in the english speaking media since pre WWI. In fact, the best media hooks relative to nearly anything German usually relate to something nazi, the wars, and the like. Not a good idea to lose two wars and expect good press from the victors, and VL was apparently too sweet and kind to displace or equalize the bad news.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on January 30, 2007, 03:06:06 PM
Well, as the Kaiser's daughter, you can see why she would not get mentioned much. He was made a figure of enemy propaganda no end, and little of it was accurate. He really wasn't that bad, he was Queen Victoria's grandson, and more of a English country gentleman type in exile than anything else. Germany in World War I tended to be made the villain of everything, but that wasn't totally the facts. I can see why, because of who her father was, she would not be mentioned as much. I agree, her life was luckily happy ( rare for beauties), and she was sort of boring in not really having a dramatic personality. But, if not for her father, she might well have been paid a little more attention.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 30, 2007, 03:33:51 PM
But, if not for her father, she might well have been paid a little more attention.

Unfortunately, those in the inner circle of "celebrities" whether the celeb is popularly famous or notorious, are usually painted with the same brush. If people such as Viktoria do not get majorly scorned, as has been the case with WII, they get sidelined and somewhat ignored which can be far preferable to the bullets they would take if they tried to gain center stage. even with Caroline of Monaco marrying into the family, the press has been weak on propelling the hanovers to any level of stardom. I wonder if Princess Grace was still aliive if the linkage to and positive exposure of VL and her descendants would be more celebrity?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on January 30, 2007, 04:00:06 PM
It most likely would. I agree, her husband does seem to be seen badly, judging from one book that I have read. He is royalty, but he tends to be seen as hot tempered, and sort of not very refined. That's another subject, but you are right, you only know about the Hanover links if you know royalty, it isn't mentioned up front, the Hanover links to English royalty, at least that I've read. By the way, does anyone know how well Victoria Luise got along with Joachim, in the photo they look close. Wasn't he the one who died a suicide?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2007, 07:30:05 PM
Yes, Joachim was the suicide. Joachim doesn't play a prominent part in her memoirs--this could be because they weren't especially close or due to some circumspection in writing the memoirs, I don't know. From what I remember, I think other brothers were mentioned more so, despite the closeness in age, he might not have been her favorite.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 30, 2007, 08:01:44 PM
Yes, Joachim was the suicide. Joachim doesn't play a prominent part in her memoirs--this could be because they weren't especially close or due to some circumspection in writing the memoirs, I don't know. From what I remember, I think other brothers were mentioned more so, despite the closeness in age, he might not have been her favorite.

Yes, this could be; also, while I am not sure about VL or the royal family, during the period even up to recent times, suicide was a much tabooed subject and family members who did themselves in were simply not discussed beyond whispers. For Viktoria to have openly talked about Joachim, especially in fond terms, she would have exposed herself to questions, probes, and details about his life and death which she and the family very likely did not want to talk about.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: TampaBay on January 31, 2007, 06:25:07 AM

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vaj.jpg)
Princess Viktoria Luise posing with her mother Auguste Viktoria and her brother
Joachim


Dona looks like a 60 year old grandmother in this picture, not the mother.

Does anyone know how old Dona is in this picture?

TampaBay

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 31, 2007, 09:10:56 AM
I did not see a date on the photo, but Dona was 34 when she gave birth to Viktoria Luise, and 32 when she had Joachim. Judging from the appearance of VL and Joachim, they are probably around 10 and 12 respectively, making Dona somewhere around 44ish.

What I think you are responding to is her white hair. That premature whiting/greying always adds a good 10-15 years on a person's appearance. her face looks just about right for a mid 40s woman, and you can see in photos of her much later that her facial appearance remains quite similar to what we see in this photo.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on January 31, 2007, 01:20:10 PM
Yes, Joachim was the suicide. Joachim doesn't play a prominent part in her memoirs--this could be because they weren't especially close or due to some circumspection in writing the memoirs, I don't know. From what I remember, I think other brothers were mentioned more so, despite the closeness in age, he might not have been her favorite.

I'm guessing that it was because of how he died. But, it would be interesting to know her thoughts on that, and how much of a tragedy it was for her. That's why I asked. It would have been more of a tragedy had she been close to him, for sure.  It was a tragedy for the family.She might have been close to him, but mentioning it could have had the effect HerrKaiser mentioned. What year were her memoirs written?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on February 11, 2007, 08:23:52 AM

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vaj.jpg)
Princess Viktoria Luise posing with her mother Auguste Viktoria and her brother
Joachim


Dona looks like a 60 year old grandmother in this picture, not the mother.

Does anyone know how old Dona is in this picture?

TampaBay




I think she had 47 years old on this photo.

But, I read somewhere that certain witnesses of the time claimed that the hair of the german Empress bleached following a diet to which she had been subjected to lose weight, because the Kaiser Wilhelm II did not love the fatty women. As, she made older as she was it really.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 16, 2007, 09:12:17 AM
Interesting. Dona always looked, as did nearly every one else during that era, a slight bit robust, but I would not consider her to have been fat; never heard of a diet causing one's hair to permanently go gray either! Maybe Jenny Craig should get in the business of hair coloring!  ;)

Is the home in which VL lived with her prince husband Ernst still existing and what is it currenly used for?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on February 18, 2007, 09:13:40 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/wilhelmchilds.jpg)
Viktoria Luise and her six brothers

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/withdog.jpg)
The little Princess playing with a dog
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 19, 2007, 12:28:36 PM
Great photos! the seven children look super!

Clearly, that is the Kronprinz seated with VL, and would the left to right IDs be:

Oskar, Eitel, Adalbert (the good looking prince), Joachim to the right of Wilhelm, and Auwi?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on April 09, 2007, 11:10:31 AM
Some pics of the young Viktoria Luise of Prussia :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/littlevicky.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/early.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickyportrait.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 11, 2007, 04:44:30 PM
Wonderful pictures! Haven't seen these before; VL was a very good example of a 'fairy tale' princess in many ways. As the only 'real' German princess born to a reigning Kaiser plus her sweet and approachable looks AND her fairytale romance and marriage, she was the last of a breed for sure.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on April 17, 2007, 10:52:26 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/bighat.jpg)
Princess Viktoria Luise wearing wonderful dress and very big hat

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/onhorse.jpg)
Viktoria Luise on horse

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickoscar.jpg)
Viktoria Luise riding with her brother Oscar
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 17, 2007, 02:49:42 PM
More great photos! Interesting how the photographer/artist captioned the photo with VL first mentioned followed by Oskar. This is not in age order or rank. Possibly a reaction to the public appeal of VL? She, as the only princess of the empire, had much good press and public adoration.

the photo in the dress and "hat" must be vintage post-war, yes? She is looking slightly matronly, however, the outfit strikes me as a 1912ish style vs 1918 or later. Plus most of what I have seen of her after the war was far more subtle and reserved in appearance.

the horse photo is SO Prussian! even the horse is perfectly 'in order'! :) it almost has the appearance of a sculpture rather than a photo.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: CatherineNY on May 05, 2007, 07:53:28 AM
Interesting. Dona always looked, as did nearly every one else during that era, a slight bit robust, but I would not consider her to have been fat; never heard of a diet causing one's hair to permanently go gray either! Maybe Jenny Craig should get in the business of hair coloring! [end quote, begin comment]

Vicky commented on Dona's weight to Queen Victoria -- she reproached Dona for not losing weight after the birth of her first child, and Dona said something to the effect of "why should I bother?", noting that Willy would have her pregnant again very quickly.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on May 20, 2007, 08:08:01 AM
Pictures of Viktoria Luise in Hussard uniform :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/hussard.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickyhussard1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickyuniform2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/whilelmvicky.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yseult on October 03, 2007, 01:41:44 PM
Hello everybody!
I´m pretty sure there are tons of pictures of the kaiser´s daughter, and I would be pleased seeing all the pics since she was the maternal granny of our queen...So, be gentle and post it! ;)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 03, 2007, 03:03:50 PM
Of the Queen of Spain? Then here is where the connection started, a picture of her with Friederike at the time of her daughter's engagement to Prince Paul of Greece; it is dated on the back to September 1937.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/v1.jpg)

With her daughter slightly earlier, in 1934. Later, of course, they quarreled rather badly.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/v2.jpg)

This is my favourite picture of Viktoria Luise from this period of her life. She was not exactly pretty, but she was very handsome and stylish.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/v3.jpg)

A relatively unfamiliar picture of her from somewhat earlier:
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/v4.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on October 03, 2007, 04:07:02 PM
I've always thought on the thread about her there are many wonderful pictures.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: dmitri on October 03, 2007, 06:38:05 PM
Viktoria Luise was particularly fascinating. Her autobiography is well worth reading. It is available in English and German. I think she looked more like her mother than her father. It is interesting to note in the photo with Paul of Greece and her daughter and husband how very tiny Frederkia was in comparison to her parents.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 04, 2007, 04:55:56 AM
Yes, I'd agree with you about her looks, though her father perhaps addded something of value to the mix! Of all their children, only she and Adalbert are exceptionally good-looking in my view.

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/vm.jpg)

How delicately built Friederike does seem in that engagement photo. Funnily enough, that is is not nearly as evident at her confirmation in the summer of 1933:

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/conf.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: dmitri on October 04, 2007, 08:04:24 AM
The first world war was really quite a tragedy. Viktoria Luise and her husband basically lost their complete position. The good thing to come out of it was that they both had far more time for each other and their family as they no longer had any royal role to fulfil.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 04, 2007, 01:29:44 PM
I see more of her father in her eyes and overall appearance, especially as a young woman compared to William the young man.

Her family is quite the good looking bunch; not surpriziing given the Duke and her own looks. The couple was IMO one of the best looking couples in royalty during the 1910 to 1935 period.

Interesting how her name is spelled interchangeably between the German way and the English way, even on German photos and postcards. Conversely, even before WWI, the English royal family never used the German spelling of their names.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 04, 2007, 01:51:03 PM
They seem to have been easy-going about the use of c's and k's in names in Germany before the First World War. On postcards Viktoria's name is spelt as often with a c as with a k, as is Oskar's. But she is never called Louise on German postcards as far as I know.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yseult on October 04, 2007, 02:23:07 PM
What a beautiful pictures...! I never had seen these pics until right now...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 05, 2007, 04:27:42 AM
Glad you liked them! How about one or two of her as a little girl?
(http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/21690/2154962390100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/19720/2999327330100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/22205/2449653230100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/22090/2368015120100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yseult on October 05, 2007, 10:02:23 AM
She was a charming little girl!
I felt a great deal of curiosy about her since I read one bio on her grand-daughter Sofía. I know that Victoria quarreled with her daughter Freddie (I really wonder who was the one who never had a quarrel with Freddie, by the way...) but it seems that Sofía never lost a good relationship with her granny and, in fact, I remember that all the spanish princes (Elena, Cristina and Felipe) attended some gatherings for children at their grand-grand-mother´s home.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 05, 2007, 01:27:45 PM
It is good to know that Sofia and her family were on good terms with her; I had wondered about that. As in the quarrel with her eldest son, who seems to have been a difficult character, I have the impression that the blame lay mainly with the children.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 05, 2007, 09:37:25 PM
They seem to have been easy-going about the use of c's and k's in names in Germany before the First World War. On postcards Viktoria's name is spelt as often with a c as with a k, as is Oskar's. But she is never called Louise on German postcards as far as I know.


Yes, see german ostcard above with the spelling Louise.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 06, 2007, 04:41:11 AM
You're absolutely right! Funny that I should have said that just after posting an image of a card with that very spelling.  This is extremely unusual though. I have found one other example:
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/1.jpg)
This is anothe card published in the mid 1920's in Munich, probably by the same publisher; and quite possibly this is to be viewed as a simple error. For any moderately well-informed person should have known that the princess was named Luise after the famous Prussian Queen of that name, and it would thus be inappropriate to spell 'Luise' in anything other than the German spelling. My original point that that the spelling 'Victoria' 'Oscar' etc. as often used in Germany (before WW1 especially) was not a foreign spelling, but rather an alternative German spelling, remains a valid one in my view. The name Victoria was spelled in that way with especial frequency because everyone was aware that the name, as used in royal families, was based on that of Queen Victoria.

The form 'Victoria  Louise' was naturally used very widely abroad, and appears accordingly in the German inscription on this bilingual card celebrating the visit of the Kaiser, Kaiserin and princess to Belgium in 1910:
(http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/20696/2055598700100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

I would be very surprised, though, to find 'Louise' on any German card from that period. But someone may wish to correct me!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 08, 2007, 12:50:21 PM
Unser Prinzesschen, now a bit older:
(http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/22102/2336725260100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/23061/2393664950100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

With her brother Joachim (she was closest to him in age, though she was closer in spirit to Oskar):
(http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/20886/2821590360100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Out in a coach in Berlin:
(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/23196/2779668510100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yseult on October 08, 2007, 03:23:20 PM
She was a very cute girl. I suppose her father would be really proud of his only daughter...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 08, 2007, 04:02:38 PM
Apparently he was, and he was much more able to relate to her as an ordinary human being than he was to his sons, who all seem to have been scared of him when young. This means that he is shown from a rather unusual angle in her memoirs, and seems very different from how he appears in most accounts. It has always struck me as odd that he was hardly ever shown together with her in photographs that were released to the public. There are hardly any postcards, for instance, in which he is portrayed with her, or with the Kaiserin and her.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 11, 2007, 11:54:13 AM
A few relatively unusual picture from before her marriage.
This would evidently have been taken when she was staying at the Kaiser's house on Corfu, the Achilleion, which had previously belonged to Empress Elisabeth of Austria. He she can be seen with her father on the terrace of the Achilleion:
(http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/20254/2405311720100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

On horseback in the uniform of the 2nd Liebhusaren-Regiment; she had become Chef (honorary Colonel) of this tregiment in succession to her mother Victoria, the Empress Frederick.
(http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/21863/2142646340100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Out riding with Crown Princess Cecilie:
(http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/22424/2800999610100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)


Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 11, 2007, 02:54:21 PM
I did not realize Achilleion was the property of William. Was this the only home he had outside of Germany?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 11, 2007, 03:50:34 PM
He bought it in 1907. I can't think of any other foreign home that he had, though perhaps someone else may be able to. He was very keen on Norway, of course, and must have gone there just about every summer from around 1890 to 1914, but I think he just stayed on his yacht.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on October 14, 2007, 04:29:42 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/withdog.jpg)
Litttle Viktoria Luise playing with a dog, perhaps her father's dog " Esmond "

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickoscar.jpg)
Viktoria Luise riding with her brother Oscar

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/bighat.jpg)
The Princess wearing very elegant dress and big hat

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/onhorse.jpg)
Viktoria Luise on her horse
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mari on October 14, 2007, 05:11:40 AM
Great Photographs! She looked exceptionally well on a Horse. Riding Side Saddle cannot have been easy.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 14, 2007, 05:34:19 AM
I like the first picture of her playing with the dog, I hadn't seen that before. Did the Kaiser have a liking for dachshunds? They are often present in later photos of the princess.
(http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/21313/2146870830100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

The one with Oskar is nice too, what very smart horses! Side-saddle riding has not entirely died out here in Britain; I am told told by women who have done it that it is far more comfortable than it looks. Must demand special skills though.
Here's a picture of her on horseback in uniform with the Crown Prince and other brothers (I find it hard to make out exactly who):
(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/21837/2000954260100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)


Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: The Patrician on October 14, 2007, 12:10:53 PM
The Brother on her right hand side (as you look at the photograph) is Eitel Fritz.  I can't be sure about the Brother nearest to the camera but it looks like Auwi.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 14, 2007, 12:36:59 PM
Thank you. Checking the card with a magnifying glass, I don't think the nearest one could be any other than Auwi. So that would mean that the end one, whose features can barely be made out at all, must be the Crown Prince.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 05:33:49 AM
Not photographs of the princess this time, but a rather nice memento of her that I have just acquired, a signed postcard that Sophie Charlotte, the wife of her brother Eitel Friedrich (until their divorce in1926), gave to her in 1924. This is the front:
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/sc.jpg)

And this is the explanation that Viktoria Luise wrote on the back when she gave it to someone else in 1970:
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/vl1.jpg)

She begins by saying 'This card was given to me by the Princess when my husband and I were staying with her in Potsdam ', and ends by saying 'So you have your inscription. I found the card yesterday 16.2.1970'
But can anyone help me to decipher the second sentence? She refers to the dedication of a monument to the fallen, but then her handwriting becomes largely illegible to me.

Also, what might this memorial have been? And why does she put the 'bei' in inverted commas in the first sentence? Thank you.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mari on October 15, 2007, 05:37:06 AM
How wonderful! Can you read the back and cipher the Message? :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 05:44:57 AM
I can't quite decipher all of it, so someone else might be able to help me out; I've added what I can to the post above.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: dmitri on October 15, 2007, 08:07:31 AM
By the way the caption above about Viktoria Luise and the regiment is incorrect. Kaiserin Friedrich was her grandmother and not her mother.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 09:22:57 AM
Of course she was her grandmother, slip of the pen - or rather, finger!

Here is the grandmother in her Hussar uniform:
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/EmpressVictoriaHussar1.jpg)

...and here the granddaughter:
(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/22301/2895956940100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Who looks the finest? I rather like the Empress's capacious skirt.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mari on October 15, 2007, 09:47:31 AM
So, do I and what perfect posture! I did not see your caption when I asked if you could cipher the Message. Yes, it will be interesting for someone to help with the rest of the Message. :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on October 15, 2007, 01:10:13 PM
She begins by saying 'This card was given to me by the Princess when my husband and I were staying with her in Potsdam ', and ends by saying 'So you have your inscription. I found the card yesterday 16.2.1970'
But can anyone help me to decipher the second sentence? She refers to the dedication of a monument to the fallen, but then her handwriting becomes largely illegible to me.

Also, what might this memorial have been? And why does she put the 'bei' in inverted commas in the first sentence? Thank you.

The second sentence reads "des 1. Garde Regiments zu Fuss. Sie war damals so reizend zu mir" (The monument for the first walking guards-regiment. She was so lovely to me then) My English is too poor to translate it properly :) The bei is not in "" but it is a comma from the first line!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 01:53:14 PM
Thank you so much; I often have difficulty in reading old-fashioned German handwriting!

If I have got it right, the entire inscription would thus read: "This card was given to me by the Princess while my husband and I were staying with her for the dedication of the memorial to the fallen of the First Regiment of Foot-Guards. She was so charming to me at that time. So you have your signature. I found the card yesterday 16.2.1970"

That remark about Sophie Charlotte being charming to her 'at that time' is interesting. Perhaps the two of them fell out at the time of the divorce in 1926, which I seem to remember as being a rather messy one. Or perhaps they simply lost contact.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on October 15, 2007, 03:05:20 PM
she writes, she stayed with THEM, not with her. And in Potsdam. So you have HER signature ;P
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 04:20:17 PM
Ah yes, thank you!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 05:13:44 PM
A few commemorative cards from the time of her wedding in 1913.
(http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/22483/2443941460100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/22713/2005582570100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/22783/2755657900100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
The bride and bridegroom.

(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/23677/2836243050100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
An artist's impression of the wedding service. Who can you recognize?

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/25022/2455359360100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 05:22:28 PM
(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/22411/2447495070100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Showing the procession and the parents of the bride and bridegroom.

(http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/24745/2830367170100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/22066/2219715030100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/20842/2671719310100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
From her child to her marriage.

(http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/22099/2836814070100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
The new Duke and Duchess of Brunswick.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 05:32:19 PM
(http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/24036/2241354890100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Making a public appearance in Brunswick.

(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/23468/2454143820100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/22675/2305420800100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/21163/2212306780100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Out riding on Lüneburg Heath.

(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/22221/2806601400100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Inspecting the sanitary dogs!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 15, 2007, 05:37:40 PM
(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/24458/2817668540100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/20074/2156488070100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Colm on October 20, 2007, 07:18:26 AM
Hi everybody, I am a new member, was looking for informtion on a meddallion to celebrate the wedding of prinz Ernst August to pirnzessin Viktoria luise
i think it was in Berlin on May the 24th 1913,perhaps someone has also got one of these i would love to hear from them,
for more details, it is a beautiful piece of history
Colm
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 20, 2007, 08:55:52 AM
I don't have one of these medallions, but I can provide you with an image:
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/vermed.jpg)

It is not particularly rare or valuable, I seem to remember seeing one being offered recently for about 40 Euros. It does indeed date from the year of their wedding in 1913. A gold medallion was also struck I believe. There is a silver coin with a similar double image commemorating their installation as Duke and Duchess of Brunswick which appeared a year or two later, and is more valuable; and perhaps other similar coins or medallions, this not something that I know much about.

The image of Viktoria Luise is not very flattering, is it? She didn't look best from the side in any case!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Colm on October 20, 2007, 09:55:42 AM
Great information, it is good to see a similar image, i will try to post an image of my piece beside, or next to it,for comparisson,they are almost identical except the date of May the 24th is marked on mine, and they are both reffered to as prinz and Prinzessin, and a hole was bored through the piece, it was worn with pride by someone,
yes you are right it does not show the princess in good light, a frontal of them both would have made it more equal,
thanks a million,
stay tuned for image
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 20, 2007, 11:36:34 AM
I agree that this image does not show Viktoria in a very pleasing visual. She was very sweet and gentle looking as a young woman and this mediallion image looks hard and makes her appear old. Even Ernst looks middle aged and at this time he was most definitely a dashingly good looking young prince.

It the crown on the coat of arms side the Hohenzollern family crown?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 20, 2007, 12:35:36 PM
Heraldry is not my strong point, but this looks to me to be a ducal crown surmounting Ernst August's arms on the left and VL's Hohenzollern arms on the right. As a British prince EA seems to have used the British royal arms in the same form as had been used by the Kings of Hanover.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 20, 2007, 02:26:14 PM
Here are images which Colm has sent me of his medallion. It is slightly different from the one I posted above, so I will repeat the image of that here for comparison. Very nice I think, and it really does look, as Colm remarked, as if someone has valued it enough to wear it a great deal.

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/P1010016.jpg)

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/P1010015.jpg)

The other:
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/vermed.jpg)

While we are on this subject, here is an image of the coin that I mentioned which dates from 1915.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Royal/vlegm.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 21, 2007, 05:39:53 AM
Does anyone have any pictures of VL at the Kaiserin's funeral?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Colm on October 21, 2007, 07:38:37 AM
 I don't like asking this question, would anybody have it in their hearts to wear the meddallion, it is not fair for it to be left on my cabinate,
a new chain could be got for it,i would love for it to go to a place of someone who would treasure it
really
 
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on October 21, 2007, 08:23:55 AM
Some more pictures of Viktoria Luise and her family :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/landau.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/formal.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/withson.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/brunswick.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/herzogfamily.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/familybis.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 21, 2007, 01:18:59 PM
Does anyone have any pictures of VL at the Kaiserin's funeral?

No clear photos because the women were swathed in heavy black and Cecile was the one my photographs focused on as she was one of the lead mourners as the wife of the Crown Prince. I think the other ladies were the other daughters-in-law and Victoria Louise is bringing up the back of the photograph--I think she's spotted next to Ernst August.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/280084572605.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 21, 2007, 01:30:32 PM
Here is a photo of VL at her father's funeral:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/image127VLatWIIfuneral.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 21, 2007, 01:31:59 PM
The older VL:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/Foto0058.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/ebay1555.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/viktorialuisekaisersdaughter.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 21, 2007, 01:35:16 PM
Thank you very much for your reply on the funeral question. I have a photograph of the next rank down in the procession, with Oskar, Adalbert and August Wilhelm, and I wondered if a heavily swathed woman just behind them might be VL, but it's probably one of the wives of those princes if VL was further back with Ernst August. The women's mourning-dress is beyond what I would have expected for the date (but this is not something that I know anything much about); I wonder if they dressed like that at the funeral of Edward VII, for instance.

I like that picture of her in the pearls and black dress.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Colm on October 21, 2007, 03:07:11 PM
The older VL:

This will probably be my last post or quote, but it has been great to read the history and view the photos of, the prince and princess, when  bought the meddallion at a Polish market, i had not heard of them, now i know so much and to see V.l in her older years was not something i would have expected, at the time of purchase either, as i said before if anyone is interested just let me know, as i only paid a few Polish Zlotys for it, so if i get the equivilent in Euro or sterling, i would be pleased to give it to a person who would value it.
and last but not least, there was a saying in Ireland at the time of the 1st W.W, WE SERVE NEITHER KING NOR KAISSER BUT IRELAND, thanks everyone for your help and knowledge
Colm
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 21, 2007, 04:55:15 PM
Thank you very much for your reply on the funeral question. I have a photograph of the next rank down in the procession, with Oskar, Adalbert and August Wilhelm, and I wondered if a heavily swathed woman just behind them might be VL, but it's probably one of the wives of those princes if VL was further back with Ernst August. The women's mourning-dress is beyond what I would have expected for the date (but this is not something that I know anything much about); I wonder if they dressed like that at the funeral of Edward VII, for instance.

I like that picture of her in the pearls and black dress.

Royal funeral photos I've seen up until the 30s and even, to an extent, with George VI in 1952, the women have been heavily swathed in black.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 22, 2007, 05:45:57 PM
I think VL  looks wonderful in her black dress and pearls and also the photo with the fur hat. It seems 1980 when she passed was so recent! We could have interviewed her! She must have been a rare database of unbelieveable facts; oh to have had dinner with her. I would have loved to have her personal insights on her grandmother Vicky.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on October 22, 2007, 05:48:39 PM
She didn't write too fondly of her in her memoirs--the relationship doesn't seem to have been a close one. This partly seems due to the fact that VL was a 'Daddy's girl' and it seems some of the bad blood between mother & son rubbed off.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 23, 2007, 08:58:45 AM
that makes sense, but VL was only 8 years old when Vicky died and those 8 years, in spite of William's influence, probably would have been difficult ones to forge a relationship given where vicky lived, her health, and age. I suspect therefore that most of VL's not-so-positive commentaries on Vicky must have been developed after Vicky's death in conversations by william and others "dissing the dead"...which makes it even more sad.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mari on October 24, 2007, 07:39:29 AM
I too think She looked wonderful in her Black Dress and Pearls. She looks very elegant! Thank you for the Photographs.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 24, 2007, 09:27:04 AM
Yes, thanks very much. She was an elegantly aged woman and princess.

I suspect the writing on the photos is not her autograph, correct? She would not have connect her two names and it does show Viktoria with a c rather than K.

During the middle 1960s at the height of the cold war, tensions with eastern Germany, social change globally, etc, did she travel and make any personal appearances for any charity or other reasons?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: dmitri on October 24, 2007, 10:40:14 AM
Kaiserin Friedrich was far more beautiful than her granddaughter.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 24, 2007, 02:54:07 PM
I would agree that her grandmother was much more beautiful, but I do find VL an exceptionally handsome woman; she had a style and character of her own.

In response to HerrKaiser, these are her signatures on the cards, though the signature is rather ill-formed in the first because she had to crowd it into a corner. Her signature remained fairly constant throughout her life, she ran the two parts of her name together without using a capital L for the Luise (I suppose because a capital, let alone a gap between the names, would have interrupted the flow)  The first part is in fact spelt Viktoria rather than Victoria, but the k often looks like a c when carelessly written.
I believe that she became a more familiar figure again in the latter part of her life largely as a result of the interest that was aroused by her various books about the Kaiserzeit.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 31, 2007, 05:08:49 PM
Visiting the zoo with her mother:

(http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/26692/2395023240100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

They must have known how the animals felt!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 01, 2007, 10:03:50 AM
Viktoria Luise's outfit looks wonderful. the fur muff and should drape must have been stunning in real life.

interesting how the gentleman on the right side in top hat looks like he could be William but clearly not since he is not mentioned in the caption. but had the photo not been ID'd one could mistakenly think it is he.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 01, 2007, 11:48:29 AM
I wonder if he may have been the director of the zoo showing them around.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: imperial angel on November 02, 2007, 04:26:40 AM
Since I've been on this thread, seeing more wonderful pictures of Victoria Louise then I ever saw before, I have come to conclude she's more of a beauty than I thought. I think, although I might have said this on some long ago thread, that she looks much like her aunt Moretta, at least in that they were both beautiful, if not specific looks. I appreciate every one who has posted on here.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on November 02, 2007, 07:38:18 AM
Viktoria Luise aged pretty welll- elagantly.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 05, 2007, 10:17:11 AM
Since I've been on this thread, seeing more wonderful pictures of Victoria Louise then I ever saw before, I have come to conclude she's more of a beauty than I thought. I think, although I might have said this on some long ago thread, that she looks much like her aunt Moretta, at least in that they were both beautiful, if not specific looks. I appreciate every one who has posted on here.


Absolutely agree. The romantic following the Romanov's and Saxe Coburg's acheived on a global scale never really permiated the Hohenzollern family. Hence, we have tended to overlook many very lovely aspects to this family, including innate beauty of many members. VL was a very beautiful princess. the photo here with her first born is also unique in that she really seems to be responding to a cue from the photographer "...big smile!". You almost never see that.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 06, 2007, 03:46:53 PM
VL and Ernst August making their ceremonial entry into Brunswick in November 1913; plenty of smiles here:

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/27326/2079579010100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/28860/2333445470100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/26754/2151394670100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/28114/2419198200100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
She has a rather funny expression on her face in this one; it's hard to smile without a break!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mari on November 07, 2007, 04:46:05 AM
I think She looks as if she is taking  a moment to reflect!     Great Pictures of both of them!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 07, 2007, 09:15:51 AM
Fabulous photos. thanks so much! VL and her handsome prince look more and more like the celebrity couple of the day. Her sister in law was stunningly beautiful, but alas, Cecilie's husband was not much in the looks department (their children grew into quite the set of lookers though). VL and Ernst were nicely matched and created a simply gorgeous embodiment of beauty, power, pomp, and celebrity.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on November 07, 2007, 09:26:53 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/fam4.jpg)
Viktoria with her brothers Oskar and Joachim

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/m197501122355.jpg)
Joachim and Viktoria with their mother

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/princessviktoriaandprincessfrederik.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/viktorialouise72398.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/scan013a3zl.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/scan015a9kc.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/victorialuiseandparents.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Kaiser%20Wilhelms%20family/vickylouise.jpg)

i found a great deal of pictures of VL in my photobucket account....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 07, 2007, 11:17:46 AM
Thank you, some nice ones there. I can add a couple that go with the first and last. In her sailor suit:

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/19720/2999327330100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/27805/2342770220100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
As a little girl with the Crown Prince; another, an artist's impression not a photo, but rather sweet:
(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/28076/2847469950100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
(What's your favourite flower?)


Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on November 07, 2007, 11:42:33 AM
ohhh i love the middle one its sooo cute!
thanks for sharing those adagietto! :D
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 07, 2007, 04:07:58 PM
thanks for more photos! wow. Notice how, as pointed out before, even the older German postcards and photos use the "c" spelllng of her name rather than the official, correct 'k". I think this is an indicator how the Germans were not as fussy about including Enlishisms in their daily lives, and in fact, embraced it. The English. on the other hand, tended to be very English-only in their uses, ultimately even changing the royal house name from German to English.

I also point out again how the Hohenzollerns seemed far more animated in some of their photos. The Kronprinz offering the cup to little VL is precious and far from the stiff photos usually seen.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 08, 2007, 04:53:53 AM
In my view German royal postcards in the period before WW1 were simply better on the whole than the British ones, more varied and imaginative, and often more natural and informal; at least for the younger members of the Imperial family and Bavarian royal family, the ones of the Kaiser and Kaiserin, for instance, tend to be rather stiff. I must disagree with you when you describe the use of "c"s in names as an Englishism, it was an alternatve German usage that was also found in place-names and was certainly not imitated from the English. Until the First World War, the British royal family had no worries about German titles, but this naturally became a sensitive issue during the war in view of the German origins of the dynasty.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mari on November 09, 2007, 04:08:59 AM
The Children photo's are charming? I like the one where She is looking at her Mother and holding her hand...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on November 11, 2007, 11:10:48 AM
Charming Princess Viktoria Luise :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/VictoriaLuise.jpg)

Viktoria Luise with her husband Ernst August in a car :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/coupleandlady.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vleac.jpg)

Viktoria Luise, Ernst August and Kaiserin August Viktoria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/78.jpg)

Viktoria Luise during the war :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/1915.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vick.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 11, 2007, 01:03:37 PM
I like the third one, which I hadn't seen before.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on November 17, 2007, 12:12:20 PM
Viktoria Luise walking with her husband Ernst August and one of her favorite brother Oscar :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/luneburg1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/walking.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/walk2.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vlernstoscar.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/walking1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/walk.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Laura_ on November 17, 2007, 12:57:37 PM
smiling a lot ? :-) very nice pics!;)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 19, 2007, 10:27:19 PM
the fantastic photos of VL and EA keep coming! And yes, more and more of happy, smiling faces....they surely did capture the endearing look of smiling photos decades before other royals parsed their lips.

and notice how they are holding hands in the arm in arm manner they crafted for themselves. It is in many photos; it must have been a signature way of holding each other that really works and looks fantastically genuine.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on November 19, 2007, 10:55:13 PM
Their body language was definitely telling--you can sense the emotional and physical attraction even in pictures from later in life.

The 2 on their honeymoon:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/image084VLEAhoneymoon.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on November 25, 2007, 09:48:12 AM
Viktoria Luise in carriage with her sister-in-law Olga of Cumberland :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/79.jpg)

Viktoria Luise with her paternal uncle Prince Heinrich of Prussia :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vlheinrichprussia.jpg)

Viktoria Luise and family :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/andchilds-1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/hano-1.jpg)

Maturing Viktoria Luise :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/fur-1.jpg)

Ernst August and Viktoria Luise in automobile in the early 1920s :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/auto1920-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 26, 2007, 02:53:40 PM
Prince Heinrich looks more like King George than King George!!! Usually, the looks comparative is made between NII and GV, but in the photo above, Henry surely looks like his cousin Georgie.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on December 01, 2007, 10:29:32 AM
.

click on the image for a larger version


kaiserin Augusta Viktoria und prinzessin Viktoria Luise 
  by F. A. von Kaulbach 

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/AV_u_VL_smllr.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/AV_u_VL_smllr.jpg)


.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 01, 2007, 12:01:26 PM
thanks for this wonderful portrait. VL as always looks so cute and candid. this is a very nice image of Dona, too. Unlike many of her photos/portraits, she looks more relaxed here, regal, and pleasing. any information on the tiara she is wearing?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on December 03, 2007, 09:07:09 PM

sidenote:

although no date was given for it, the portrait of the kaiserin & pzssn Viktoria Luise was the pendant to this portrait of the kaiser which was dated 1898.

(as before, click on the image for a lerger version)


kaiser Wilhelm II.  1898.
  by F. A. von Kaulbach 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/kaiser_wilhelm_II_1898.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/kaiser_wilhelm_II_1898.jpg)

.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on December 03, 2007, 09:36:01 PM
.

kaiserin Augusta Viktoria und prinzessin Viktoria Luise
~ detail ~


(as before, click on the image for a lerger version)

prinzessin Viktoria Luise
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/detail-1_prinzessin_viktoria_Luise.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/detail-1_prinzessin_viktoria_Luise.jpg)

kaiserin Augusta Viktoria
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/detail-2_kaiserin_augusta_viktoria.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/detail-2_kaiserin_augusta_viktoria.jpg)

.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 04, 2007, 09:47:56 PM
In response to the earlier question, looking at Brian's blow-up of Dona from the portrait, it seems that she might be wearing her aquamarine tiara.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/10083335a.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on December 16, 2007, 08:30:46 PM
.

HRH the duchess of Brunswick

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/Unfiled%20Photos/victoria-luise_braunschweig.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 17, 2007, 09:25:38 AM
That's a particularly nice picture.

Here's an unusual one showing her at a hunt with her brother August Wilhelm:
(http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/35438/2560486190100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Can anyone tell me exactly what this 'Parforcejagd' was?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 17, 2007, 03:12:55 PM
According to wikipedia:

The Parforcejagd (of french force = par with violence), or hunt is a form of hunting, which is already among the Celts, and was known primarily in the 17th and 18th Century European royal houses. This is a hunt on the tracks of deer, or even of foxes, wolves or wild sows , which hunters ride horses until the game is set. Since the dogs do not tear the game, the Parforcejagd had no actual violence, and the dogs are slower than the game, but have a superior endurance, and therefore fatigue. The enormous cost of these hunts led soon return to its abolition. However, they still sometimes operated--mainly in France. In Germany it's been prohibited since 1934 .
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 17, 2007, 04:41:34 PM
In response to the earlier question, looking at Brian's blow-up of Dona from the portrait, it seems that she might be wearing her aquamarine tiara.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/10083335a.jpg)

Dona doesn't even look like herself in this portrait. Plumper, different facial appearance, unusual hair for her; almost could be mistaken for someone else. this looks more like Sissi may have appeared if she had aged badly.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 18, 2007, 05:12:54 AM
That's certainly not a good portrait.

Thanks for the information on the hunt.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 18, 2007, 09:49:56 AM
VL and her brother Auwi appear to have been very close. She refers to him frequently in letters. they are together in many published photos. Did they remain close to the end?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on December 28, 2007, 12:46:49 PM
Viktoria luise, Ernst August and baby son :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/brunsw-1.jpg)

Viktoria Lusie, Ernst August and their eldest sons :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/eavlf.jpg)

Viktoria Luise with her sons Ernst August and Georg Wilhelm :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vlernstaugustgeorgwilhelm.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 28, 2007, 01:56:29 PM
thanks for the wonderful pictures! I have to say once again....Ernst August is the best looking among all the male royalty of the period! Wow. VL sure did get a catch in the looks department, and a good man too.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Svetabel on December 29, 2007, 12:38:34 AM
Ernst August is the best looking among all the male royalty of the period! Wow.

Here I agree with you. :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 29, 2007, 03:37:36 PM
He surely was a dashing fellow!

(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/37148/2607690850100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/23468/2454143820100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/37699/2042699880100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/38837/2430853860100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on December 30, 2007, 09:49:44 AM
Ernst August is the best looking among all the male royalty of the period! Wow.

Here I agree with you. :)

Undoubtedly, and I think Viktoria Luise was first seduced by his flattering appearance before falling in love.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: dp5486 on January 27, 2008, 10:42:48 PM
In a New York Times article on the wedding of Victoria Louise I found mention of her two former governesses who attended the wedding. One was French and one was English. I'm assuming the latter is Anne Topham. I was wondering if anyone knew who the French governess was.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 28, 2008, 07:06:01 PM
Hi,

Did The Empress Alexandra Feodorovna attend the wedding of Princess Viktoria Luise in 1913?
I know Nicholas II was there but did his wife attend?

Thank you.

Larry
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Svetabel on January 29, 2008, 01:04:57 AM
Hi,

Did The Empress Alexandra Feodorovna attend the wedding of Princess Viktoria Luise in 1913?
I know Nicholas II was there but did his wife attend?

Thank you.

Larry

Nicholas II was there alone, Alexandra Fedorovna did not attend.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on January 29, 2008, 04:03:17 AM
An artist's impression of the wedding service in which some of the main guests can be seen, showing Queen Alexandra and Emperor Nicholas II with the Duchess of Cumberland and the Kaiser on the left, and the Duke of Cumberland and Kaiserin with King George V on the right.

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/25022/2455359360100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Is there any particular reason why the Empress Alexandra should not have atteneded?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 29, 2008, 10:38:58 AM
Hi,

Thank you, Svetabel, for your answer...

Adagietto-
I don't think that that is Queen Alexandra in the drawing;  it looks more like Queen Mary.
I'm not sure if Queen Alexandra nor The Dowager Empress attended this wedding either, as they both hated The Kaiser.
Although they wouldn't necessarily have an axe to grind with the bride or groom.
Wasn't the groom their nephew?

Larry
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 29, 2008, 11:58:09 AM
It is definitely Queen Mary. Her mother in law, alexandra, was not in attendance.

Empress Alexandra, NII's wife, was not there likely due to being ill and not able to make the long trip by train. She also had a fairly low opinion of Willie, but that would not have kept her away. It was likely due to poor health.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 29, 2008, 04:33:18 PM
Hi HerrKaiser,

Thanks for the confirmation....
Yes, I think you are correct.  I am in full agreement with you as to why The Empress was not there.
Also, I'm wondering if because the incidents at Spala with Alexei were only a year before, that she was afraid to leave him.  Just my speculation!!

Larry
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on January 29, 2008, 05:31:01 PM
Thanks for explaining why the Empress Alexandra wasn't there. It was of course Queen Mary who accompanied George V to the wedding, not the previous Queen; one British Queen would have been enough to be getting on with. Here's another picture of the ceremony:

(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/23677/2836243050100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 29, 2008, 09:18:35 PM
Pages 2, 6, 10 and 12 all have photos and/or information on VL's wedding--including information about both Alexandras's absences.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on March 01, 2008, 11:03:48 AM
Viktoria Luise with her husband Ernst August :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/1932.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/Viktoriaernstaugust.jpg)

Viktoria Luise, Ernst August and Fredericka :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/83n.jpg)

The complete family :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/1930s.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/family.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/whf.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on March 01, 2008, 01:35:21 PM
Thank you, some of these I haven't seen before; I like that first one. One or two more from the same general period:
(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/35868/2366887440100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/39238/2425271220100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

At Friederikes's wedding in 1938:
(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/29207/2764791480100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

From rather later, the engagement of Enst Agust jr.:
(http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/26898/2950567610100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 01, 2008, 02:07:14 PM
wonderful photos! thanks very much!

Ernst August and VL as well seemed to maintain their good looks well into and after middle age.

Was WII at the wedding of Frederika?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on March 02, 2008, 04:15:28 AM

Was WII at the wedding of Frederika?

Not yet. The wedding of Paul and Fredericka of Greece took place in 1938 and was therefore one of the last great royal marriages before the Second World War.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on March 02, 2008, 04:49:51 AM
I think HerrKaiser was wondering whether Kaiser Wilhelm attended the wedding; since they were married in Athens, I cannot think that he did.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 02, 2008, 09:20:39 AM
He didn't.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 02, 2008, 12:44:00 PM


The complete family :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/1930s.jpg)


It's funny, they say dogs resemble there owners. I think Victoria has a look of daschund about her!! :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 03, 2008, 11:17:43 AM
Beauty is in the eyes......

I think VL and her entire brood look fantastic. She always kept her simple and subtle beauty throughout her life and the genetic blend between her and EA is obvious..even to this day's current generation.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Princess Jil on March 07, 2008, 06:36:41 PM
It seems like the present head of this family, Prince Ernst August of Hanover seems to at times to  embarrass the family with his public outbursts and problems with alcohol.  Hopefully he has calmed down and cleaned up  somewhat.  I wonder what Victoria Louise would think and say about the behavior of this current prince?  Do you think she would of been pleased with his current wife, Princess Caroline of Monaco?  Caroline's style and beauty do remind me of Victoria Louise.  I think VL was very glamous looking but simple in her style of dress.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 08, 2008, 11:39:13 AM
I personally suspect that Viktoria Luise would have about the same sense of disappointment in the current prince that she apparently had for her own heirs and grandchildren, in large part. Once the dynasty was unravelled after WWI and her dear husband passed, the next generations (like so many affluent powerful families whether regal or from industrial empires) often drift away from the prescribed behavior that was key to the previous generations ability to build what fortunes and image they had. Regarding Caroline, who knows, but VL and her generation were not very impressed with the 'hollywood' types (althought hollywood was not yet a creation in her most formative years). That said, I bet VL would have a bit more positive opinions of Caroline than Grace. Overall, VL probabaly would look at them the way Rose Kennedy looked at Gloria Swanson and Judy Garland and others...fairly trashy people who would not be on the guest list.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on March 10, 2008, 12:13:51 AM
It seems like the present head of this family, Prince Ernst August of Hanover seems to at times to  embarrass the family with his public outbursts and problems with alcohol.  Hopefully he has calmed down and cleaned up  somewhat.  I wonder what Victoria Louise would think and say about the behavior of this current prince?  Do you think she would of been pleased with his current wife, Princess Caroline of Monaco?  Caroline's style and beauty do remind me of Victoria Louise.  I think VL was very glamous looking but simple in her style of dress.

.


( -- my apologies if these are common images...)


click on image for larger version


the princess at the time of her confirmation in 1909 at the age of 17.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/097.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/097.jpg)
.

the princess Victoria Louise Adelheid Mathilde Charlotte at 10 in 1902.
"she called her curls (created by the laborious efforts of Nana), "the bane of my life"."
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/098.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/098.jpg)
.

at 13, on the empress' birthday in 1905.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/099.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/My%20Photos/099.jpg)


these are from the wonderful book A Distant Thunder by Anne Topham.

she was english governess to princess Viktoria Luise (called "Sissy" by miss Topham) from 1902 until the princess' confirmation in 1909.


.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on March 10, 2008, 06:13:28 AM
I agree with HerrKaiser, I am sure that VL would have regarded the Monaco princesses as being rather vulgar (very vulgar in the case of the appalling Stephanie)! She was of course none too fortunate in her own descendants.

That third photo is nice.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on March 16, 2008, 09:36:54 AM
Viktoria Luise in wonderful clothes :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickyfurs.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 16, 2008, 04:33:31 PM
Wow! Never have seen that photo image before and how stunning VL looks! The fur must be white ermine; I wonder what the fabric and color of the dress and coat is? any guesses? thanks!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on March 16, 2008, 06:42:01 PM
It looks like a velvety fabric, maybe dark blue (but that is a pure guess). I haven't seen that card before, it is indeed very nice; there's another of her walking in the countryside in that outfit:

(http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/22809/2005059060100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

It's exactly the same photo of her I think, but in the other card it has been set against a neutral background. Often they extracted the figure and placed it in a completely diffferent setting, as in this pair of cards:
(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/4117/2694519180100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/22102/2336725260100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 17, 2008, 11:41:29 AM
the use of silouhette was often done in the early 1900s but the "photoshop" type repositioning of images in different locations is very interesting. It looks like the real one is with the woman, but the one in front of what looks like Humbolt university is the fake. A very good fake, by the by, and one wonders why such a practice was embarked upon.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 17, 2008, 12:01:45 PM
I was lucky enough to buy that image of VL in the ermine on ebay years ago--it's a real favorite. I also have the one of her walking with her governess--it was an early 'paparazzi' shot and published in some of the magazines of the day then issued in postcard form.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: CharlotteSometimes on March 17, 2008, 02:11:22 PM
I have one of Cecilie with a (badly super-imposed) baby in her lap.  I've seen the original and she is just seated with an ermine?/feather? stole over her shoulder--no baby.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 17, 2008, 04:07:12 PM
Yes, those montages were very common 'back in the day'. There are just dozens of them posted just here on the Forum, let alone probably the hundreds of them published at the time. Some of them aren't bad, some are downright creepy!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on March 17, 2008, 05:25:02 PM
Young VL:
(http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/33381/2798991030100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Baby inserted!
(http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/20454/2068112150100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Mother inserted!
(http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/40979/2483635440100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

I think these look unnatural and even rather unpleasant; and I would agree that such pictures can sometimes be downright creepy. Some are so good, though, that it's hard to tell that they've been manipulated.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 17, 2008, 06:33:33 PM
Due to the timeframe, unless I was told they had been edited, i would not have guessed, mostly due to not even looking for what appears a bit obvious now that I know.

in spite of the work on the photos, VL looks lovely. No wonder her handsome prince fell in love at first sight!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: CharlotteSometimes on March 17, 2008, 11:55:26 PM
I think VL resembles her g-aunt Alice of Hesse in these photos.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on March 18, 2008, 04:58:36 AM
Here's a really skilful use of these techniques. The original photograph of VL making a public appearance with her husband in Brunswick:
(http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/24036/2241354890100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

And here they have been cut out of that scene and placed against a wholly different background:
(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/37148/2607690850100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: TampaBay on March 18, 2008, 07:15:09 AM

Mother inserted!
(http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/40979/2483635440100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

I think these look unnatural and even rather unpleasant; and I would agree that such pictures can sometimes be downright creepy. Some are so good, though, that it's hard to tell that they've been manipulated.

YEK! GADS! Looks like they were designed for a  Project Runway Designer challenge!!!  I must have missed the "Dress a Royal" episode!
Then again I could see Cookie in both of these outfits! ;D ;D ;D

TampaBay
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on April 29, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Viktoria Luise with her family :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/th_vlpz.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vlpz.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/th_kj.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/kj.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/th_f1917.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/f1917.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 09, 2008, 01:38:41 PM
Prinz Ernst August
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8779/019da1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 09, 2008, 01:41:35 PM
Viktoria-Luise & child
(http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/2408/021yw8.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 10, 2008, 07:15:42 AM
Wonder who it was with the Duchess of Brunswick...?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on May 10, 2008, 07:59:04 AM
I think it's her eldest.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 10, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
I'm not sure which one of her children that is ...  unfortunately, it doesn't say who on the photograph * she did have a lot of kids ! *  :o
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on May 10, 2008, 04:42:30 PM
There are similar pictures to this one and the child was ID'd as her oldest son.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 10, 2008, 07:05:35 PM
There are similar pictures to this one and the child was ID'd as her oldest son.

Thanks GrandDuchessElla :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 11, 2008, 08:25:50 PM
Thanks ! Wonder which son was her favourite child ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on May 11, 2008, 08:36:02 PM
Who's to say her favorite wasn't her daughter?  ;) (Actually they had a rather difficult relationship as she did, at least later in life, with her eldest.)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 11, 2008, 09:10:44 PM
No...not the daughter Frederike. She told Cecil Beaton that she hated her mother....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 11, 2008, 11:06:50 PM
She had to sue her eldest son to stay in her home which her husband wanted her to live in for the rest of her life. The other sons did little to mediate the crisis. For what seemed to be a wonderful family, once Ernst passed away, the family was no longer the image they had projected for decades.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on May 12, 2008, 05:15:24 AM
Interesting to see the Palace in Brunswick being rebuilt...you can view it on line
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on May 27, 2008, 09:54:57 AM
Poor Viktoria Luise !

After the Second World War, her children came into open conflict with her for money matters. She lives even forced to assign her elder son Ernst-August to justice. The latter, by reprisals, went so far as to threaten to cut off water and electricity if she does not leave the castle of Marienburg. What she was forced to do so.

Relations became too bad with her only daughter Fredericka, Queen of Greece, which in 1962 was not present to the seventieth anniversary of her mother. By the way, Victoria Luise had not been invited to Athens in May 1962 at the marriage of her granddaughter Sophie with Juan Carlos.

However, Victoria Luise, in spite of financial setbacks that she had had with her sons, nevertheless avoided a final blur.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 27, 2008, 11:02:50 AM
VL did have a difficult few years in her last decades due to some of her children, who imo, were quite out of line. I guess there are always two sides to a story, though.

She had a peaceful and apparently happy last ten or so years of her life, which is a blessing. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when QEII visited her and spent a good amount of time in private conversations.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on June 29, 2008, 08:21:38 AM
Viktoria Luise on board Yacht " Hohenzollern" with her father Wilhelm II :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/th_vloh.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vloh.jpg)

Brunswick and Mecklembourg Schwerin families :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/th_mecklbrunsw.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/mecklbrunsw.jpg)

Viktoria Luise, Ernst August and Princess Max of Baden (one of Ernst August'sisters) :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/th_auto.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/auto.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 30, 2008, 12:31:47 PM
Yes...I suspect the issues with Queen Frederike went much deeper. It takes a lot for someone to say that "I hate my mother". Quite another to tell someone "I think of you as my mother." (in this case Princess Nicholas of Greece). Wonder what went wong between VL and her daughter ?  :o
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Luc on July 17, 2008, 09:54:30 AM
Viktoria Luise and her brother Crown Prince Wilhelm in 1895:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0238
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on July 17, 2008, 10:25:28 AM
This was later made public on a postcard; one can see that this project is going to be an invaluable source of reference.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on July 20, 2008, 09:13:05 AM
Viktoria Luise and her brother Crown Prince Wilhelm in 1895:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0238

Interesting source ! Using the search engine of this site, you can gain access to unpublished photos of the Hohenzollern. Fantastic !
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 21, 2008, 07:15:26 PM
Nice indication of the stature little sister had amongst the Hohenzollern princes.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/VLwithbros.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on July 22, 2008, 10:12:13 AM
you can say that again lol
i mean
i guess its cause shes the only girl
and ray of sunshine perhaps? cause in that photograph she looks to be made out to be the sun lol
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 22, 2008, 07:53:25 PM
Yes...Daddy's little girl ! The apple of the Kaiser's eye... ;)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 24, 2008, 04:03:35 PM
VL's namesake luxury cruise liner was the first ship ever built for the purpose of vacation cruising.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/SSVLposter.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 25, 2008, 09:54:36 AM
Wow...Interesting...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on September 20, 2008, 08:01:15 PM
The early days of newspaper photography--VL being 'snapped' out with her governess

(http://www.ullsteinbild.de/photodatenbank/cache/images/00/90/67/84/preview/00906784.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Terence on September 20, 2008, 11:48:47 PM
What on earth is that governess doing w/ that stick?  I'm guessing this is for posture?

Just shows how the world has changed.  That looks so regimented to us today.  Yet you have all kinds of folks walking around today who really would present themselves better to the world if they didn't slouch thru life.

Maybe it's a German thing.  I'm sure my parents brought me w/ enough nagging about my posture.  But what really sticks in my mind is a visit from my grt. aunt, dau. of a German immigrant, when she told me her father's German expression...it translated as something like, stand tall, be proud.  That has always stuck w/ me.

Not bad advice.  It becomes a habit, much better habit than hunching around and on occassion straighting up.

Tho, I guess looking at history of the Germans you can overdo this type of thing. ;)  Still, not bad advice.

End of ramble,
T
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on September 21, 2008, 03:45:20 AM
Innocent days when members of a royal family could just wander around the streets of a capital city unattended. Though the governess looks as if she could put anyone to flight with that umbrella of hers.

A more staged picture:
(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/4117/2694519180100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/23196/2779668510100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

At the zoo with Mother:
(http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/13952/2078664280100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on September 21, 2008, 09:32:42 AM
The early days of newspaper photography--VL being 'snapped' out with her governess



Personally, I find this very revealing picture of the behavior and temperament of the young Princess.

While her governess appears to fear that they approach too close, Viktoria Luise, not impressed, remained impassive and seems very sure of her despite her young age.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 21, 2008, 02:34:39 PM
The begining of the paparazzi ! I love it.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 23, 2008, 06:55:45 PM
yes, the early stages of paparazzi. The paparazzi got an even earlier start during the weeks in San Remo when vicky and Fritz were hold up as he lay dying of cancer and awaiting the death of William I.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 23, 2008, 07:58:48 PM
Did they got to shot the photograph ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on September 24, 2008, 10:02:20 AM
What on earth is that governess doing w/ that stick?  I'm guessing this is for posture?
Maybe it's a German thing.  I'm sure my parents brought me w/ enough nagging about my posture.  But what really sticks in my mind is a visit from my grt. aunt, dau. of a German immigrant, when she told me her father's German expression...it translated as something like, stand tall, be proud.  That has always stuck w/ me.

Tho, I guess looking at history of the Germans you can overdo this type of thing. ;)  Still, not bad advice.

This has - obviously - nothing to do with posture but was done in order to safe the Princess from the impertinent photographer (I think there were some guards to accompany the ladies tho').

Your comment on "German history" in addition to that is not adequate nor is it polite. Which Nation likes to throw the first stone?!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 24, 2008, 11:41:49 AM
I agree it is not the German thing. But Victoria Luise actually looked calm about the comotion....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 24, 2008, 05:44:23 PM
I don't think Terence was intentionally making a negative comment or slur about Germany and Germans, rather pointing out that the governess' apparent action has a sense of perfection and precision that is often attributed positively to German people.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 25, 2008, 12:03:47 PM
I think Victoria Luise had an English Governess if I remember correctly and a German lady-in-waiting.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on September 25, 2008, 02:06:44 PM
On mother's lap:
(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/23445/2881654120100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

On father's lap:
(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/41291/2701184920100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
It seems to me that this is not a genuine photograph of her with her father, but an image created by the photgrapher, who has superimposed a picture of her on a separate picture of the seated Kaiser.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 25, 2008, 04:12:25 PM
It may be true, but Victoria Luise (nicknamed "Sisi" after Empress Elisabeth of Austria, afavourite of Wihelm II) was the apple of her father's eye (like her English cousin Princess Mary in England being the only girl in the family). 
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on September 25, 2008, 04:25:58 PM
I think she was the only one of his children who could behave in a natural way with him.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 25, 2008, 05:00:50 PM
It may be true, but Victoria Luise (nicknamed "Sisi" after Empress Elisabeth of Austria, afavourite of Wihelm II) was the apple of her father's eye (like her English cousin Princess Mary in England being the only girl in the family). 


hi Eric,

Actually, VL's nickname was spelled "Sissy" and it was not after elisabeth of Austria, rather a term of endearment within the immediate family for their little sister, whom they all adored.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 29, 2008, 02:19:43 PM
I think since Willy was a great admirer of the Austrian Empress, it gives him added pleasure to call his daughter in a similar way.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 10, 2008, 12:58:16 PM
Sorry, I can't seem to embed it, here's the link:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ekklFIWDtac
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 10, 2008, 01:16:39 PM
I dont know if this picture has been posted yet, but is one of my favorites of her.

(http://i37.tinypic.com/b9i2wj.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on October 12, 2008, 05:38:50 AM
Two formal portraits of the Duchess of Brunswick :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickyluise.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vlp.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 12, 2008, 06:03:15 AM
I hadn't seen that second picture before; in portraits she is hardly ever shown in full profile like that, doubtless because she had a rather large nose! This is my favourite portrait of her from that  period:

(http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/43140/2836103220100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 13, 2008, 06:18:52 PM
Adagietto, your favorite photo of VL is obviously from the 20s. I think that particular pose, especially the way she places her hand on her thigh in an almost assumptive gesture is very similar to the look Walis Simpson may have struck.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 13, 2008, 08:00:15 PM
Compare VL with Wallis !!! Well both admired Hitler (even though Wallis fell short of the support).
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 14, 2008, 03:13:53 AM
Oh lots of people admired Hitler when he seemed to be bringing Germany back into the sun (especially if they didn't pay too  much attention to his writings, and take them as seriously as they were intended). I get the impression that VL soon drew back.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 14, 2008, 06:55:18 AM
More pictures of Viktoria Louise



(http://img108.imagevenue.com/loc891/th_85415_vl21_122_891lo.jpg) (http://img108.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85415_vl21_122_891lo.jpg)(http://img131.imagevenue.com/loc1170/th_85431_formal1_122_1170lo.jpg) (http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85431_formal1_122_1170lo.jpg)(http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc821/th_85436_v1-11_122_821lo.jpg) (http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85436_v1-11_122_821lo.jpg)


I love tha last one cause she looks so pretty when she smiles!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 14, 2008, 07:40:35 AM
The one with the dog is nice too.

Two from the time of WW1, in which she is looking rather serious, understandably :
(http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/15218/2153269050100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/44147/2373563110100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on October 14, 2008, 10:04:55 AM
she looks extremly elagant in the second photo
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 14, 2008, 11:04:00 AM
Her signature is interesting and lovely how she combines both her names into one.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on October 14, 2008, 02:39:42 PM
most people fell for Hitler didn't prince phillips sisters all have husbands who supporeted the nazis?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 14, 2008, 03:31:21 PM
there is another thread on royalty and their participation and/or opposition to the nazi party.

However, regarding Viktoria Luise specifically, there is absolutely no credible evidence that she had any associations with the nazi regime that would at all compare to those of Charles Eduard.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yseult on October 14, 2008, 03:45:31 PM
Did VL support Hitler really? I´m asking ´cause I´ve read the memories of her daughter Friederike...and the memories of Frederike are very elusive about this period, she suggested her parents were not specially linked to the nazies and when they realized the nazism was so strong, they only thought about how to send her daughter far away from Germany, to a british school...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 14, 2008, 04:38:20 PM
That is true, and as adagietto pointed out, prior to 1938, many people, good people among them including many in the British government such a as winston churchill, spoke admiringly about what hitler had accomplished in bringing germany out of severe depression and much social unrest. VL and her husband were not nazis and not supporters of the directions hitler took after november 1938.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yseult on October 15, 2008, 10:53:07 AM
Thank you, HerrKaiser, for clarify this point for me...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 15, 2008, 11:13:21 AM
Not really...VL was at the Nazi rallies and seen to do the Nazi salute publicly, while people like Philip's sisters (Cecilie and Margarita) belong to the party, but do not go to the public rallies to support the Nazi Party. 
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yseult on October 15, 2008, 11:16:15 AM
Uf, this question seems very complex...isn´t it?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 15, 2008, 04:26:40 PM
Not very...there are some joined the party without joining the rallies into open support of Hitler. VL was a avid supporter but later recanted. Maybe not as active as Charlie Coburg, but not a passive supporter either...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 15, 2008, 07:42:17 PM
Eric, being seen giving the nazi salute has no bearing, necessarily, on one's active or passive particiaption in the nazi party. during hitler's victorious ride through Vienna in 1938, even the american news media were saluting the straight armed salute. And, having attended rallies do no signify support. I went to an Obama event and I loathe the man, for example.

I have not seen any credible reference material that Victoria Luise was linked in any serious way to the nazi regime, unlike Philip's sisters, Carl Eduard and others. If there is some documentation you have please bring it forth, but again, everything I have seen leaves her name and her husband's quite clear of nazi associations.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 15, 2008, 08:19:06 PM
That is interesting why would one go to a rally unless one is really convinced of one's support ? I for one would not caught dead in a Bush rally as I do loath the person. I don't think all Philip's sisters were involved in Nazism. Sophie for one did not even join the party even those her sisters did. But you won't find them in a Nazi rally. I don't say that he was as heavily involved in the party like the two brother-in-laws of Philip and Charlie Coburg, but she wasn't against it either. I was told by insiders that VL was a keen supporter longer than supposed. However by her actions i don't think she did reputation any favours.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 16, 2008, 12:10:06 AM
That is interesting why would one go to a rally unless one is really convinced of one's support ?


Well, you must be one of those people who has a more narrow approach to branching out and expanding your experiences, but many others take a more open and broach approach to social/political events. At the time hitler was holding speaking events (as opposed to nazi rallies), much before WWII, attendance at such events was not necessarily a sign of deep commitment to national socialism. More in the arena curiosity; few people had radios and many had an interest in hearing who this guy was.

I was told by insiders that VL was a keen supporter longer than supposed.

Unfortunately Eric, being "told" by unnamed "insiders" (whatever that means) is hearsay and not credible evidence in most any discussion or forum where some base level of truth is important.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on October 16, 2008, 04:39:30 AM
This is a matter on which it is often exceedingly difficult to get full and honest information; I have always been interested to know, but have never found out anything very definite. I do think VL was a supporter in the early period, and it would be interesting to know how soon she (and her husband) drew back, and to what extent. She allowed postcards to be issued in the early 30s showing her eldest son and Friedike wearing Nazi badges, which strikes me as being an expression of public support; but these are rare, and I have never seen any pictures of members of the family wearing Nazi insignia in the later 30s. This is surely a question that now be approached from a purely historical point of view, without people feeling the need to be unduly defensive or censorious.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 16, 2008, 11:26:38 AM
I agree with you that actions speaks louder than words. VL also allowed herself to be photographed doing the salute in rallies (damning for her image after WWII), while others had the good sense to stay away.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on October 16, 2008, 01:39:04 PM
 to be honest she probably didnt know that the war and all that which happened was going to happen. and almost everyone else was doing the nazi salute and going to rallies so she probably just went along with everyone else. and lets not forget that despite Hiltler being cruel to the point of evil he did rebuild the German economy so many people during the early/mid 1930's though he was good.
.........................

back to VL would you guys recommend ' kaisers daughter' ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 16, 2008, 02:07:10 PM
I think she knew...it was not a one time thing really. Her father had some praise for Hitler in getting the German pride up again, but once the details were known to him. He recanted quickly and rather publically. He made sure his name and image has nothing to do with the Nazis. Before he died he made sure that his furneral would not be used to boost Nazi propagranda. That is what I call a regection of Nazism. However I don't believe she approve and knew all the details, it is safe to say she played along.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 16, 2008, 10:09:09 PM
back to the discussion of Victoria Luise and not the nazis, please, especially if the discussion would be supposition.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 17, 2008, 02:30:26 PM
cool !

Anyone knows why VL's relationship with her daughter Queen Frederike fell out to a degree that she said "I hate my mother !"....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on October 26, 2008, 09:56:40 AM
Viktoria Luise with her sister-in-law Princess Olga of Cumberland :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickycoach.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/79-1.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/twohannover.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 26, 2008, 02:20:56 PM
Thanks for the images. They seem to get along well...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on October 26, 2008, 03:09:20 PM
Yeah they totally look like bff's
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on October 26, 2008, 03:28:34 PM
here is the royal palace rebuilt ...very like Buckingham palace eh?

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8229/braunschweigerschloss3hd9.jpg
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on October 26, 2008, 04:40:35 PM
here is the royal palace rebuilt ...very like Buckingham palace eh?

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8229/braunschweigerschloss3hd9.jpg

suspiciously yes ;) just a thought why are the columns made out of different stone? they're all different colours!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on October 26, 2008, 06:32:53 PM
they are the originals... the palace was completely demolished  and the remains dumped around the city as decoration. Now they have been returned to the reconstructed building.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on October 27, 2008, 04:36:17 AM
thanks for filling me in Norbert
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 27, 2008, 10:22:17 AM
The palace in Brunswick ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on October 27, 2008, 01:52:51 PM
Yes it has been rebuilt...sadly only the exterior. The new build returns a focus to the town centre and looks great. Next on the list is the Imperial Palace in Berlin
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 27, 2008, 03:23:30 PM
I wonder what the interior would be like ???
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 27, 2008, 03:47:00 PM
the original palace had a glorious interior. and yes, it rivaled most of the royal "headquarters" and home throughout europe and GB. Like many of the destroyed public and private buildings in Germany, those that had recoverable ruins were reused in their reconstructions. ironically, most of the useable ruins were in the east where the communists did not clean them up for 50 years. the intent was to maintain an impression of defeat and ruin in order to keep the people under their thumbs. After 1990, many of the ruins were gathered and saved for possible future rebuilds as is the case with the Braunschwieg palace, the Frauenkirche in Dresden and others.

Sadly the interior of the palace will be contemporary and designed for commercial use, thereby not recreating the splendor of the appearance with Viktoria Luise occupied the property. The same is true of the Stadt Palais in Berlin; when completed it will look on the outside much like the building Vicky and Fritz would know as "home" but on the interior will be designed for public commercial use, and possibly a hotel. The architects are hoping to include some main interior features such as the famous white marble main staircase and the white ballroom, but most everything else will be new.

At least the cityscapes are returning in some part to their historic wonder.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 27, 2008, 03:55:07 PM
True...but sad. At least we still have Charlottenburg and Potsdam.  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on October 30, 2008, 07:46:33 AM
i believe Prince Charles has supported a scheme to rebuild the Town Palace there, again the interiors are lost forever. Although having seen the Royal Castle in Warsaw anything is possible
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 30, 2008, 04:34:02 PM
Indeed ! I think they did photographed the rooms before they were bombed. It is possible to reconstruct the palace if they wanted to.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 31, 2008, 09:57:23 AM
Indeed ! I think they did photographed the rooms before they were bombed. It is possible to reconstruct the palace if they wanted to.

It is really not about wanting to rebuild the former structures in their original state or not. It is about the cost, primarily, and secondarily about functionality. The costs for replicating the marble, wood working, glass work, etc, is prohibitive just for a showcase. The palaces were not constructed for 21st century style use, so the cost and inefficienct space utilization make a true rebuild impossible, although very unfortunate. Many would just enjoy a true rebuild as a mark of history and long term keepsake (that is until the next bomber harris has his way!), as was done with the Frauenkirche in Dresden, but there is not enough public support or funds to make this a reality.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on October 31, 2008, 11:10:32 AM
yes there are plenty of books showing the original palacee and pictures of interiors in all the bookshops in the town.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on October 31, 2008, 11:14:22 AM
But yes, all seems odd to some people as Germany is a republic and there is no call for a return for a monarchy to live in these palaces.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 31, 2008, 02:15:48 PM
Thanks ! I would pick it up in Berlin when I go there next.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on October 31, 2008, 04:07:07 PM
 That would be in Brunswick...but there are plenty of books showing the old Hohenzollern Palace in Berlin. I picked up a free magazine showing the proposed rebuild and conservation of surviving relics
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 31, 2008, 04:14:47 PM
Thanks for the info...I would keep an eye for them.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Norbert on November 01, 2008, 04:39:14 PM
 several Bookshops just a stones throw away from the Brandenburg Gate. I also got a very good book on the Bellevue Palace with interiors etc
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on November 01, 2008, 05:45:42 PM
gosh i've just noticed that we have kept this topic going for over 4 years!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 02, 2008, 10:37:04 AM
How time flies !  ;D
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 20, 2008, 06:59:07 AM
Nice post-war picture of Cecilie and children with VL and family. (Is that Olga of Cumberland second from the left? And who is the man in the hat?)

(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/41314/2854221110100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 20, 2008, 09:33:00 AM
No...It Alexandra of Mecklenburg-Sherwin (Olga's sister) and the man in the hat was her husband and brother of Cecilie,
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ashdean on November 20, 2008, 12:05:48 PM
Nice post-war picture of Cecilie and children with VL and family. (Is that Olga of Cumberland second from the left? And who is the man in the hat?)

(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/41314/2854221110100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)


Ceciles brother the last Grand Duke of Mecklenburg Schwerin was married to one of the three sisters of VL's husband..
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 20, 2008, 01:00:43 PM
Ah thank you, I got the wrong sister: if I had got the right one it might have provided me with a clue to the identity of the man in the hat! Olga was of course unmarried. Here's the whole lot of them together:

(http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/43288/2104222800100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 20, 2008, 02:43:47 PM
the top photo shows how Cecelie's youthful beauty became lost more quickly than it should have.

The last photo must have been before the end of the war. Ernst looks quite young and dashing and Dona in good form.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 20, 2008, 03:54:18 PM
Indeed...Thyra, Duchess of Cumberland and mother to Olga was also there.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on November 22, 2008, 08:03:51 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vicdo.jpg)
Young Viktoria luise in carriage with her mother Augusta Viktoria

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vlbc.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/xfgt.jpg)
Viktoria Luise walking with her husband Ernst August and her brother Oscar

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/witheitelfriedrich.jpg)
Viktoria Luise with her sister-in-law Sophie Charlotte and her brother Eitel-Friedrich
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 22, 2008, 10:56:17 AM
Thank you, these are nice!

Another of her with her mother:
(http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/44047/2965812900100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on November 23, 2008, 08:46:13 AM
Pretty picture, never seen before, thank you Adagietto !

It seems that Viktoria Luise was quite tall but less that the Crownprincess Cecilie. Someone knows how she is measured exactly? Thank you in advance for your answer.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 23, 2008, 11:29:14 AM
Thank you, these are nice!

Another of her with her mother:
(http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/44047/2965812900100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Now that's a coat! If that piece of clothing still existed in VL's closet, I'd try to buy it for myself!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on November 23, 2008, 01:51:56 PM
It is indeed very fine, presumably designed to go with her riding gear.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 24, 2008, 09:23:03 AM
You can design your own version of it.  :D
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on December 08, 2008, 09:52:38 AM
Young Victoria Luise with her mother Auguste Viktoria and her brother Joachim :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/jvlav.jpg)

Victoria Luise walking with dog :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/gftyu.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/fghi.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 08, 2008, 05:02:19 PM
Princess-about-town, these are nice, thank you.

(http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/44367/2586381690100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 08, 2008, 05:41:48 PM
Great photo Adagietto! there are several noteable aspects to the image:

1) the Reichstag in the background appears in its turn-of-the-century glory. notice the heavy amount of detail; that period was loaded with architectural detail which led to the modern era.
2) the view is to the north. the Brandenburg Gate is on the right; VL is about to pass through it, heading east onto Unter den Linden on her way, no doubt, to the Schloss about a half-mile down the road. None of the structures to the north of the Gate and oppositie the Reichstag exist today.
3) VL is riding without security. The gentlemen nearby in the foreground are tipping their hats to the princess.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 09, 2008, 04:06:33 AM
What I always think of as wedding-cake architecture, easy to laugh at, but I think I prefer it to the puritanism of so muc post WW1 German architecture. I Would love to have seen Berlin as it was in the 1900's! The absence of any need for security is appealing. I wonder, though, whether that picture may not have been put together in the photographer's studio, by inserting the image of the coach into a separate picture of the architecture.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 09, 2008, 09:31:40 AM
I love it all. The buildings...the dresses...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 09, 2008, 11:04:04 AM
What I always think of as wedding-cake architecture, easy to laugh at, but I think I prefer it to the puritanism of so muc post WW1 German architecture. I Would love to have seen Berlin as it was in the 1900's! The absence of any need for security is appealing. I wonder, though, whether that picture may not have been put together in the photographer's studio, by inserting the image of the coach into a separate picture of the architecture.

Upon closer inspection, it does appear the carriage is superimposed on the scene (notice the images/texture between the wheel spokes do not match that of the street). Nonetheless, from what I have read about the activities of the royal family, the scene could easily have been real.

I also would have loved to seen Berlin 100 years ago. I have several photo books on its pre-destruction days and it had a look and aura that was wonderful and unique.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 09, 2008, 11:16:51 AM
So much that has gone!

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/linschoten/Paintings/gartneudlinden.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 09, 2008, 01:45:22 PM
Regardless of what one thinks of the two world wars and who/who is not to blame, the hard fact exists that Berlin as well as nearly all mid-sized to large cities in Germany were destroyed to over 90%. Separate from the politics and social issues, the loss of the architecture, art, and urban design elements remains a severe tragedy, imo. This is especially unfortunate since so much of the architecture was rare and historically important.

The view on the color image seems to be looking east near Humboldt University toward the Spree and the Schloss in the distance.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Vasiliy on December 10, 2008, 07:15:26 AM
Could she really walk without security ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2008, 10:03:22 AM
Technically...No.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 10, 2008, 03:52:44 PM
Would have had a plain-clothes policeman keeping a discreet watch?  (The Empress of Austria doesn't seem to have had any security when she was assassinated.)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 10, 2008, 06:47:45 PM
The way it usually worked was for bodyguards to mingle at a distance and appear to be blended with the crowds or passers by. There was not the type of secret service sun-glassed big men hovering around them. The German royals were actually quite accessible by loyal fans/subjects when they ventured into public venues.

When Elisabeth was stabbed, she'd been somewhat estranged from her position, so I gathered her security detail had been voided to some extend.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 11, 2008, 04:33:46 AM
Yes, I think that Elisabeth wanted to distance herself from her position and that included the security (rather as with Princess Diana, who would not have died as she did if she had competent Special Branch officers looking after her, as she could have done if she had wanted.)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 11, 2008, 09:29:10 AM
Yes...I agree. Had those two had been protected, they would not have died.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on December 13, 2008, 08:54:14 AM
Princess Viktoria Luise side saddle riding :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/dset.jpg)

Viktoria Luise with her Mother Auguste Viktoria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/dsf.jpg)

With Parents :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/dsz.jpg)

Viktoria Luise in coach with her sister-in-law Princess Olga of Cumberland :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vloc.jpg)

Lovely portrait of " Sissy " (her family's nickname) :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vcf.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 15, 2008, 08:53:37 AM
the occasion of the two photos with her parents and mother seems to be vintage 1910. Do you know if this was simply a formal photo session or a state or personal event? Dona's dress is particularly nice and her tiara suits her hair style.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 15, 2008, 10:02:46 AM
By 1910. Dona had became an institution in style as QM in England
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on December 16, 2008, 10:08:41 AM
the occasion of the two photos with her parents and mother seems to be vintage 1910. Do you know if this was simply a formal photo session or a state or personal event? Dona's dress is particularly nice and her tiara suits her hair style.

yes i too like Dona's dress, and Viktoria's, its very elegant. and the beadwork at the bottom must have looked lovely.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 16, 2008, 10:42:34 AM
Indeed...Both looked very imperial.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on December 16, 2008, 01:27:19 PM
the occasion of the two photos with her parents and mother seems to be vintage 1910. Do you know if this was simply a formal photo session or a state or personal event? Dona's dress is particularly nice and her tiara suits her hair style.

I think they may have been part of the formal 1913 series taken for the Kaiser's Jubilee.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 16, 2008, 03:58:47 PM
It could well be.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 17, 2008, 04:59:08 PM
Viktoria Louise, Hubby and kids

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2nsrqf9.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 18, 2008, 08:10:01 AM
They were a happy family.  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on December 18, 2008, 01:50:39 PM
They were a happy family.  :)


Yes, at least until sordid stories of inheritance deteriorating relations of Victoria Luise with her children.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 18, 2008, 02:45:09 PM
Money was the root of all evil.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 18, 2008, 04:27:00 PM
Ernst August jr. was something of a bastard I think; and Friederike was difficult.

More family stuff.

(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/34589/2596749290100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/41779/2467024750100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/41481/2247483880100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/32532/2563938200100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/39238/2425271220100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)



Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 19, 2008, 09:39:39 AM
VL wasn't mother of the year as well. I think Freddy had a case with her mother.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 26, 2008, 06:39:18 AM
A seasonal picture:
(http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/44197/2046064480100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 26, 2008, 08:42:58 AM
VL wasn't mother of the year as well.

Who was? Few among the European royals were much on good-mothering. Oddly, Dona comes to mind as the top, or close to the top, of the list among a group who were largely dysfunctional mommies.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 26, 2008, 09:51:40 AM
Dona was a loving mother to her children, even though I do not like her ways of treating hers & her husbands relatives.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on December 27, 2008, 04:54:43 AM
I can think of plenty of senior members of European royal families before WW1 who were perfectly good mothers, e.g. Cecilie, Marie Gabrielle of Bavaria, Crown Princess Maragret of Sweden etc.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on December 27, 2008, 06:47:29 AM
i recently bought The court of the last Tsar- pomp,power & pagentry by Greg King and when I was reading it last night, I read that Nicholas said to Viktoria on her wedding day - " I hope you are as happy as I am" ( or something along those lines , I don't have the book near me at the moment) i thought it was very sweet. Also I laughed when I read that Dona left a Russian theatre, when one of the actresses had a very short skirt on. :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 27, 2008, 01:02:29 PM
I think VL had a stronger personality than her husband.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on December 28, 2008, 10:11:17 AM
Same session of Viktoria Luise and her mother Empress Augusta Viktoria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickymother.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vicdona.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/fdrt.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 06, 2009, 02:34:51 PM
Footage of VL and EA c.1930

http://www.welfen.de/ernst5.htm
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 16, 2009, 03:16:24 PM
i got this one recently ;-)

(http://i39.tinypic.com/sdo393.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on January 16, 2009, 03:17:38 PM
what is she wearing! looks like tradtional costume but I could be wrong
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 16, 2009, 03:19:22 PM
Yup. Is a greek traditional costume
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on January 16, 2009, 03:20:24 PM
thank-you do you know when it was taken?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 16, 2009, 03:23:39 PM
No idea, but looking how young she  looks..i d say she was just married when this pic was taken.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on January 16, 2009, 03:39:05 PM
I believe it was taken about 1908-9 when the family went to Greece. Wilhelm II had bought Achilleon by then.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 16, 2009, 04:17:32 PM
Looking closely..i can see a wedding  band...

(http://i43.tinypic.com/23m27i1.jpg)

So, if  that actually is a wedding ring, this picture was taken after 1913
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 16, 2009, 06:20:39 PM
Looking closely..i can see a wedding  band...

(http://i43.tinypic.com/23m27i1.jpg)

So, if  that actually is a wedding ring, this picture was taken after 1913

Germans do not wear wedding rings on their left hands. So, the ring in the photo is not a wedding ring.

also, if the photo had been taken after her marriage to Ernst, the byline would have stated her title to be Duchess of Brunswick, not princess Victoria Luise.

She looks to me to be a few years prior to marriage age, so i agree with GDElla. Note the palm tree in the background. The setting could in fact be at the Achilleon estate.

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2009, 04:36:23 PM
Yes. The Archillion estate.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Sylvia Rosenthal on January 19, 2009, 02:21:16 PM
Does anyone know how I might find out for sure that a particular person used to be in the employ of Victoria Louise? Her name was Clementine Juvin and she was "attending to the personal care, the robes and the jewels of Her Royal Highness" between 1908 and 1919, sleeping in the royal apartments to be near her - possibly at the Neues Palais, Potsdam. I guess that might mean she was a lady-in-waiting. If anyone has any research hints or tips, or has come across a reference to her in any of their own materials, I'd be really glad if you could pass on the tit-bits.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 19, 2009, 03:19:03 PM
thanks for the info about the wedding band, Herrkaiser! i had no idea about that!


Other image of Viktoria with sister in law Alexandra

(http://i43.tinypic.com/a44psi.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 19, 2009, 06:58:14 PM
thanks for the info about the wedding band, Herrkaiser! i had no idea about that!


Bitte schoen!  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on January 22, 2009, 02:03:45 PM
In relation to that picture of her in Greek dress, here's a picture of her with her father on the terrace of the Achilleion; it looks far too hot for my taste.

(http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/20254/2405311720100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 22, 2009, 03:01:08 PM
What a beautiful place!  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 22, 2009, 05:36:47 PM
thanks Adagietto; very nice photo! Wilhelm definitely looks young-ish and the date must be in the 1905-1910 period.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2009, 09:29:07 AM
Willy was an ardent admirer of Sisi, also with his sister Sophie there, it was agood move to buy the villa.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 23, 2009, 01:34:10 PM
I doubt William had any desire to be closer to Sophie.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 24, 2009, 07:25:12 PM
He likes his sister was the Queen of Greece.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on January 25, 2009, 09:03:26 AM
Yes, even if he does not forgive her her marriage to Constantine, the fact that his sister is queen of Greece allowed to stay in this country where enchanting also made other royal families he loved to attend. However, his visits to Greece were more a chore for Sophie, who tolerated the presence of her brother without really wish.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 25, 2009, 01:09:48 PM
Yes...Willy was quite a chore to handle for poor Sophie.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 02, 2009, 03:34:17 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/3155230247_b29c18aec6_o1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 02, 2009, 03:36:50 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/2961424098_7f74328d00_o1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 02, 2009, 10:24:58 AM
Viktoria Louise and son Christian

(http://i43.tinypic.com/35n4wgi.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 02, 2009, 12:10:45 PM
The eldest son ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 02, 2009, 12:21:46 PM
Nope, her eldest son was Ernest Augustus IV ;-)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Russka Princess on February 02, 2009, 12:41:11 PM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/2961424098_7f74328d00_o1.jpg)

 why are Alix, Nicky, and Irene and Henry on this pic ??
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 02, 2009, 12:48:51 PM
That is a postcard conmemorating Viktoria`s wedding..maybe they were invited? (as far as i know Nicholas went alone  to that wedding)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 02, 2009, 01:20:32 PM
He did. It was probably assumed at the time AF would accompany him. Or maybe just for the sake of balance.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 02, 2009, 02:24:36 PM
Or maybe Alicky was feeling ill again. She fell into a number of illnesses after the birth of Alexei...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 03, 2009, 07:54:34 PM
the postcard shows the most important royal couples relative to the hohenzollern house. It's a keepsake and point of historical commemoration, so each spouse is featured, regardless of attendance at the event.

what's interesting to me is that Ernst August's parents are not identified with any Hannoverian titles, just Cumberland. Is that odd for the German side of the family event?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 04, 2009, 09:05:17 AM
Not so much when you consider the severe odds that the Prussian/Hanoverian houses had been at for decades. It almost derailed the romance. There had been a good deal of negotiation and compromise on the Hanover/Brunswick titles as part of the marriage arrangement.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 04, 2009, 10:02:39 AM
Yes...Kaiser Bill has been doing a lot of wooing of Thyra's daughters for his sons, but she would not consider a match with the House of Prussia until her son fell in love with VL.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Luc on February 04, 2009, 10:12:34 AM
Two for me unknown photos of a young Viktoria Luise:
here she is around five:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0313

and around 15?:
http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-0312
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 04, 2009, 10:15:06 AM
I wonder who the governess was fixing the collar of VL ?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Luc on February 04, 2009, 10:52:56 AM
It is her future sister- in- law and cousin, Princess Alexandra of Schleswig
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 04, 2009, 11:23:01 AM
Thanks !I couldn't see her face on the side.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 04, 2009, 06:50:29 PM
Not so much when you consider the severe odds that the Prussian/Hanoverian houses had been at for decades. It almost derailed the romance. There had been a good deal of negotiation and compromise on the Hanover/Brunswick titles as part of the marriage arrangement.

Yes, agree, but in spite of the bad blood for years, the feud had been overcome for the sake of VL and EA. The poster represents to me an indication of how William was furthering his good will by being placed in a secondary position to all the others in the print and not "insisting" on the Hannovers to use a non-British title for such a German event. No?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 04, 2009, 07:37:38 PM
Prussia still didn't recognize any other title for the Cumberlands. The concessions given were as far as it was going to go. If WW1 hadn't happened, maybe some kind of title would have been restored, apart from the Brunswick (and that was a painful negotiation that didn't leave Ernst very pleased) one. There wasn't going to be a restoration of the Hanoverian titles.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 05, 2009, 08:54:58 AM
Well...At least the Hanoverian fortune and art collection was wrested from Bismark and given back to its rightful owner.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on February 07, 2009, 09:04:51 AM
Viktoria Luise with her two youngest sons Christian :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/withnewbornchristian.jpg)

And Welf Heinrich :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/mitprinzwelfheinrich.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 07, 2009, 09:45:53 AM
i havent seen the first one. Thanks for post it!

This is one of my favorites of Viktoria as a mom. Look at that beautiful smile!

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2w4ag6t.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 07, 2009, 11:48:20 AM
Yes, Katenka, great photo of VL as a Mom. And it is so rare to see royalty photos of that era and earlier in which we could see a true and real smile.  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 07, 2009, 01:02:34 PM
They were taken for propaganda purposes. I do not think VL spent all her time in the nursery.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 07, 2009, 01:34:26 PM
But the smile is real.  We were talking about that, not if she was a dedicated mother.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 07, 2009, 05:00:44 PM
Of course the smile was real. So was Willy with his children a generation ago.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 09, 2009, 02:04:08 AM
Victoria Louise and Joachim:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/VictoriaLouisewithJoachim1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 09, 2009, 12:23:40 PM
They looked nice togather. I wonder how close they were.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 10, 2009, 11:30:58 AM
Little Viktoria Louise playing around

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2iln4gx.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 10, 2009, 12:16:40 PM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/WilliewithVictoriaLuise1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 10, 2009, 12:58:17 PM
This one is new for me. She   looks gorgeous!

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2zznjip.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 10, 2009, 03:13:59 PM
I like that one. Really ! VL was "Daddy's little girl"....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 13, 2009, 01:53:52 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/VictoriaLouisewithOskar1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 13, 2009, 01:36:08 PM
Viktoria Louise, Erns and their two eldest kids

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2h57jsw.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 15, 2009, 02:18:05 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/ViktoriaLuis1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 15, 2009, 09:26:05 AM
This is far one of the greatest Postcard of Viktoria Luise i ever seen. I was lucky to bought it!

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2ln8jky.jpg)

She looks extremely beautiful and melancholic. Judging by her clothes, i d say this pciture is from mid -late 1920s.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on February 15, 2009, 11:05:33 AM
They looked nice togather. I wonder how close they were.

I think that Princes Joachim and Oscar were her favourite brothers.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: beladona on February 15, 2009, 03:36:35 PM
Did someone post this terribly colored picture of Viktoria Luise? :)

(http://www.adels-archiv.de/fotos/009/009-0169.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 15, 2009, 04:10:22 PM
She doesnt look at all like Victoria Louise  :-S and yes...it isnt a pretty pic. Scares me!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 15, 2009, 05:08:06 PM
Vert Scarry ! Little Bo Beep meets Baby Jane !
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 15, 2009, 05:24:28 PM
My thoughts is that girl isnt Viktoria Louise. Looks more like a postcard model than her
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 16, 2009, 11:29:06 AM
They looked nice togather. I wonder how close they were.

I think that Princes Joachim and Oscar were her favourite brothers.

She was close to Auwi as well.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 16, 2009, 02:05:58 PM
Yes...Auwi the Nazi...

I think it is agreed the girl in the card is not VL.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 16, 2009, 02:15:54 PM
Yup, althought the page says something different.

(Can someone translate this?. Thanks in advanced)

   
 
Quote
Viktoria Luise von Preussen
Name   Viktoria Luise von Preussen
Titel   Prinzessin
Adelsstamm   Hohenzollern
Land   Preussen
Geboren   1892
Gestorben   1980
Verheiratet mit   Ernst August von Braunschweig
Kategorie   Adelsportraits
Bild-Nr.   009-0169
Dieses Bild in den Warenkorb legen.    

Link (http://www.adels-archiv.de/historisch_adels_bildarchiv/bildarchiv.php4?id=a8d41e7f1ebf1f047c372fc129adf1e9&MenuSuchbegriff=Name_Viktoria%20Luise%20von%20Preussen&MenuAuswahl=Name)

I think this is another case of a mislabeled picture.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: beladona on February 16, 2009, 03:01:52 PM
There is a lot of very interesting photos on this page, but unfortunately a lot of them has bad inscriptions....
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on February 17, 2009, 03:16:33 PM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/VictoriaLouiseverycute1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 17, 2009, 03:36:06 PM
New for me and the topic (I guess..i  havent seen it here)

(http://i40.tinypic.com/34e46u0.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ImperialHighness on February 18, 2009, 10:55:44 AM
Hello,

I have a little question. I ve searched everywhere, but could not find out anything. Did Viktoria Luise not attend the funeral of her mother in 1921? You can find lots of postcards of the funeral of Dona, but no photo of her daughter.
I know that Viktoria Luise attended the Kaisers funeral, for she stayed with him until he died in 1941, during his last days. But what about her mother?

Thanks,

ImperialHighness
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on February 18, 2009, 11:41:53 AM
Can I ask? What do you mean "everything?
 
Does this mean plonking a few words in the Google search box, or did you look in VL's memoirs, or even better check the newspapers for the day - suich as the New York Times and other papers that are available on line through your local PL or at cost through the news sites.

I bet you will be able to find the answer by concentrating on the sources you need to use.



Hello,

I have a little question. I ve searched everywhere, but could not find out anything. Did Viktoria Luise not attend the funeral of her mother in 1921? You can find lots of postcards of the funeral of Dona, but no photo of her daughter.
I know that Viktoria Luise attended the Kaisers funeral, for she stayed with him until he died in 1941, during his last days. But what about her mother?

Thanks,

ImperialHighness
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 19, 2009, 10:11:15 AM
Actually the postcards of the furneral of Dona were mostly long shots of the train and coffin, I did not see anyone noticable in them because they are usually very small and veiled.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 21, 2009, 10:42:47 AM
I posted the same one (the last with august wilhelm)  in the last page xD!

The other two are totally new for me!. Thanks for sharing!

With her father and nephews

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2iicsgl.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 21, 2009, 02:21:06 PM
Indeed. Auwi was close to VL. As Auwi became more fasist, they began to look at VL as one going that direction too.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 22, 2009, 10:27:11 AM
it doesnt matter, dont worry ;-). That picture it is not 1000 thousands times repeated like some other posted in this same topic xD


Old Viktoria Louise

(http://i39.tinypic.com/w8vy8o.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 26, 2009, 11:42:30 AM
Viktoria Louise in a party

(http://i40.tinypic.com/xck4sh.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 26, 2009, 05:09:10 PM
VL was documented than her brothers as she was the only one who wrote a autobio and her governess also wrote one. Frederike, her daughter, also wrote her bio, but it has the feeling of being ghost written.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 27, 2009, 01:26:12 PM
VL was documented than her brothers as she was the only one who wrote a autobio and her governess also wrote one. Frederike, her daughter, also wrote her bio, but it has the feeling of being ghost written.

Crown Prince Wilhelm wrote his memoirs as well.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2009, 03:25:08 PM
Yes. But not his nanny I think. His brothers's life (except Auwi the Nazi) was much obsured to the English reading public.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 27, 2009, 03:35:48 PM
But you had said that only VL wrote her autobiography. Her nanny did write one but Wilhelm's wife Cecile also wrote her memoirs so each had 2  books written by either themselves or someone close to them.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2009, 03:37:30 PM
Well...Cecile's book was not very revealing insn't it. It omitted the difficulties of their marriage altogather.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on February 27, 2009, 03:43:10 PM
I didn't say it was. It was referencing the fact that a memoir by someone close to the Crown Prince was published and would have brought attention to him. Very few, if any, royal memoirs (actual or ghost written) are very in-depth or revealing.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2009, 03:48:31 PM
Yes. But it is interesting since VL was not a Queen or senior public figure to have so much info on her. However there is no good bio ON her in English...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on March 01, 2009, 08:57:09 AM
Viktoria Luise and her mother Empress Auguste Viktoria on board the Imperial yacht Hohenzollern :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickydona.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 02, 2009, 09:36:41 AM
What a lovely composite picture and totally new for me. Thanks for posting!

Victoria with Brother Adalbert, sister in law Cecilie and nephews

(http://i40.tinypic.com/iwmyyu.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on March 03, 2009, 04:06:21 AM
Some film-clips of VL and Ernst August:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSTg6wvufvE
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 03, 2009, 05:09:47 PM
VL did talk briefly about this Aunt in her bio. Eventually her son Paul did marry VL's  daughter, Frederica.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 04, 2009, 08:14:08 AM
Gorgeous Viktoria

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2gw9qwl.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 04, 2009, 11:04:05 AM
Some film-clips of VL and Ernst August:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSTg6wvufvE

As this and many of the still photos indicate, both VL and her husband Ernst remained a very handsome couple into their later years.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 09, 2009, 08:12:23 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Hoenzolern/ViktoriaLuisebuenacalidadconsombrer.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 09, 2009, 01:40:13 PM
Viktoria and Family

(http://i41.tinypic.com/34qwtjq.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 09, 2009, 03:43:00 PM
I wonder about VL and her relationship with her children. It issomething that she did bot go into detail in her book.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 10, 2009, 06:45:19 AM
Viktoria Louise and Aunt Sossie (There s another aunt..maybe mossy? i cant recognice her)

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2cyjkhd.jpg)



Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 10, 2009, 08:55:35 AM
Along with some of their children, including future spouses Paul (man in back) & Friedrike (little girl in white). Margaret of Hesse is on the far right.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2009, 11:33:33 AM
Yes. And with Frederica was Princess Katherine of Greece, who died not so long ago...upliving both Paul and Frederica.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 11, 2009, 08:29:25 PM
Margaret of Hesse is on the far right.

Mossy? She looks young. Did VL have a enduring relationship with Mossy and if so, do you think VL regretted losing her grandmother so early?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2009, 11:52:02 AM
No. In her bio, she indicated that her Greek cousins got away with much more mischief that she and her brothers. A kind of jealousy here.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on March 12, 2009, 06:06:35 PM
Margaret of Hesse is on the far right.

Mossy? She looks young. Did VL have a enduring relationship with Mossy and if so, do you think VL regretted losing her grandmother so early?

In her autobiography, VL didn't seem to look back at her grandmother with any fondness or sentimentality. Her passages on Vicky are rather brusque.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 14, 2009, 02:48:45 PM
I don't think she knew her grandmother well, I think Dona and Willy were not exactly singing Vicky's praises...
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Luc on April 11, 2009, 09:19:11 AM
Duchess Viktoria Luise and Duke Ernst August of Brunswick in 1938. It was taken in Dresden:

http://fotocollectie.huisdoorn.nl/HuDF-1342
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 11, 2009, 11:01:01 AM
I wonmder if someone have this picture in a good size and without watermarks. Thanks in advanced!

(http://i42.tinypic.com/f269sp.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on April 13, 2009, 03:14:31 PM
She was so fashionable, she could pull of 1910's style and just as easily the 1930's.

Also great photo's thanks for posting them.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 14, 2009, 08:05:16 AM
Viktoria Louise and nephew Louis Ferdinand

(http://i44.tinypic.com/swuzox.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on April 14, 2009, 04:38:03 PM
Ducal Palace, Brunswick:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Photocroms/00511u1.jpg)

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on April 14, 2009, 04:39:28 PM
Thumbnail:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Photocroms/th_00511u1.jpg) (http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Photocroms/?action=view&current=00511u1.jpg)

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 14, 2009, 06:26:45 PM
Viktoria Louise and nephew Louis Ferdinand

(http://i44.tinypic.com/swuzox.jpg)


This looks to be about the 1960s. both Viktoria Luise and Louis Ferdinand look very good.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on April 15, 2009, 08:22:02 AM
Your quite right HerrKaiser, she would have been in her 70-ies in the 1960's yet she doesn't look older than 65.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on April 16, 2009, 12:13:12 AM
Has anyone read her memoirs? I just ordered her memoirs online and wondering if it good. I aready read her nephew Louis Ferdinand's memoirs- pretty good.  :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: tom_romanov on April 16, 2009, 01:03:21 PM
Ducal Palace, Brunswick:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Photocroms/00511u1.jpg)

-Duke of NJ

Are there any pictures of the interior?

thanks,
tom
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: ashdean on April 16, 2009, 01:58:40 PM
Has anyone read her memoirs? I just ordered her memoirs online and wondering if it good. I aready read her nephew Louis Ferdinand's memoirs- pretty good.  :)
I enjoyed her memoirs very much.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 17, 2009, 10:57:54 AM
Ducal Palace, Brunswick:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Photocroms/00511u1.jpg)

-Duke of NJ

Are there any pictures of the interior?

thanks,
tom

The interiors would be wonderful to see.

Also, notice the way the row of trees in for foreground are clipped and trimmed in topiary fashion. That was very common in Germany during the late 19th and earlly 20th centuries, well before the practice took hold in the U.S.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: TampaBay on April 18, 2009, 10:38:06 AM
Does the Hanover family still live in this palace?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on April 18, 2009, 11:01:35 AM
Does the Hanover family still live in this palace?

TampaBay

The royal palace of Braunschweig (Brunswick) was bombed in World War II and demolished in 1960. The exterior was rebuilt to contain a palace museum and shopping centre, which opened in 2007.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on April 18, 2009, 09:28:38 PM
Ducal Palace of Braunschweig now (thumbnail):
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Stuff/th_ECE_Schloss_06u07_1b.jpg) (http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Stuff/?action=view&current=ECE_Schloss_06u07_1b.jpg)

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 20, 2009, 10:42:43 AM
The palace now includes the sculpture on the roof overlooking the main entrance of the chariot and four horses.

Several historic palaces and castles have been and are being "rebuilt". The tragic loss of most German infrastructure and historic buildings during the massive terror and random carpet bombing campaigns of WWII was furthered by lack of funds or policitical desire to rebuild the damaged or destroyed structures sooner. Many were simply bulldozed.

Since unification, an interest in recreating the lost architectural treasures and re-instilling a sense of historical presense has emerged. however, most of the rebuilds are "models" of the former structures, with exterior elements that are true to the original appearances, but the interiors are redesigned for 21st century use such as shopping, governement and administrative space, and museums.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: grandduchessella on April 22, 2009, 12:34:13 PM
Hello,

I have a little question. I ve searched everywhere, but could not find out anything. Did Viktoria Luise not attend the funeral of her mother in 1921? You can find lots of postcards of the funeral of Dona, but no photo of her daughter.
I know that Viktoria Luise attended the Kaisers funeral, for she stayed with him until he died in 1941, during his last days. But what about her mother?

Thanks,

ImperialHighness

I was reading through some coverage of the mourners and VL (and Ernst August for that matter) weren't listed amongst the mourners--and it listed a lot of people. Perhaps they stayed behind to comfort Wilhelm II who wasn't allowed to attend?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Marlene on April 23, 2009, 01:22:44 PM
I thought I answered this before -- VL accompanied her father to the train station for a ceremony when the body was loaded onto the train for the trip to Germany.  She accompanied her father back to Doorn.

Hello,

I have a little question. I ve searched everywhere, but could not find out anything. Did Viktoria Luise not attend the funeral of her mother in 1921? You can find lots of postcards of the funeral of Dona, but no photo of her daughter.
I know that Viktoria Luise attended the Kaisers funeral, for she stayed with him until he died in 1941, during his last days. But what about her mother?

Thanks,

ImperialHighness

I was reading through some coverage of the mourners and VL (and Ernst August for that matter) weren't listed amongst the mourners--and it listed a lot of people. Perhaps they stayed behind to comfort Wilhelm II who wasn't allowed to attend?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on April 23, 2009, 08:08:36 PM
Yes, you had answered it before. thank you. More fully, since Dona died at Doorn where William and VL had been holding a vigil, a small family gathering took place that was intimate and sufficient for william to send Dona off for burial. VL did not want her father to remain alone, so each paid their final respects in Holland as if Dona was buried there.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 24, 2009, 09:48:50 AM
(http://i39.tinypic.com/35cl9j8.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 24, 2009, 09:49:58 AM
With mommy and brother Joachim

(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1630/01026344.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on April 24, 2009, 03:01:41 PM
aww cute. :)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on May 03, 2009, 10:31:49 AM
Viktoria Luise with her mother Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/auvikpvl.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/carriage.jpg)

With her father Kaiser Wilhelm II and others :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickai.jpg)

With her parents in auto :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/viklinauto.jpg)

Viktoria Luise and her sister-in-law Princess Eitel Friedrich :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickpsseitel.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 03, 2009, 11:04:37 AM
Viktoria Louise with her family in- law and husband , Ernst August

(http://i43.tinypic.com/eqcxs6.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 03, 2009, 03:48:44 PM


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vickpsseitel.jpg)

Note how the men driving the carriage are perfectly clean shaven, unlike most all men of that timeframe.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 06, 2009, 03:18:09 PM
I knew there was a full version of that picture! thanks for posting it , Ally!!!

I like this one og VL. She looks so beautiful and regal!

(http://i39.tinypic.com/29gijop.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 06, 2009, 05:45:19 PM
I knew there was a full version of that picture! thanks for posting it , Ally!!!

I like this one og VL. She looks so beautiful and regal!



Viktoria Luise was definitely one of the more attractive and beautiful members of the larger European/British royal family. She has her own look; she did not inherit any of the often-seen facial features that lend themselves to dowdiness and plainness such as the classic Hannoverian chin, elongated nose, etc. She and her sister in law were surely the quintessential  "fairy tale" princesses.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Vasiliy on May 16, 2009, 12:09:29 PM
Viktoria Luise with her mother Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/auvikpvl.jpg)


What a strange photo to make a card ...
VL eyes seems to be closed !!!
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 16, 2009, 12:56:38 PM
 

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2uo6vpc.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on May 16, 2009, 03:22:46 PM
Great dress! Do you know the occasion? VL had a designer look for the time.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 31, 2009, 12:08:23 PM
Oskar is and will be one of my favorite Von preussen *0*

Viktoria with her mother and husband Ernst August

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2qk2ec5.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 31, 2009, 12:11:11 PM
And here another of her in a Hohenzollern reunion

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2w383fp.jpg)

Information

5.Viktoria Luise von Brunswick (nee Prussia), 6.Friedrich, Prince von Hohenzollern (1891-1965), 7.Kira von Prussia (nee Russia), 8.Marie Alix von Hohenzollern-Emden (nee Saxe), 10.Xenia von Prussia, 11. Pss Johann-Georg von Hohenzollern nee Birgitta von Suede *1937, 13.Mara Margarete von Hohenzollern, 14.Meinrad von Hohenzollern, 15.Franz Joseph von Hohenzollern-Emden, 16.Louis Ferdinand von Prussia, 17.Leonida von Russia (nee Bagration), 18.Waldimir von Russia, 19.Prince .Johann Georg von Hohenzollern *1932, 20.Marie Cecile vone Prussia, 23.Kira Augusta von Prussia 27.Friedrich Wilhelm von Hohenzollern 28.Margarita von Hohenzollern (nee Leiningen), 29.Karl Anton von Hohenzollern, 30.Alexandra von Hohenzollern (nee Afif), 31. Prince Christian-Sigismund von Prussia *1946, 32.Michael von Prussia, 33.Friedrich Wilhelm von Prussia, 36.Diana von Hohenzollern (nee Bourbon-Parma), 37.Franz Joseph von Hohenzollern, 38.Emanuel Joseph von Hohenzollern, 39..Princess Ernst-August von Hannover, nee Ortrud von Schleswig-Holstein (1825-1980),, 40.Prince Ernst August von Hannover (1914-1987), 41.Ferfried von Hohenzollern.


Found in wikipedia

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on June 27, 2009, 08:58:37 AM
Viktoria Luise with her parents at hunt :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/hj.jpg)

With her mother in Venice, 1909-1910 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/auvikvicvenedig.jpg)


(Pictures from the Fotocollectie Huis Doorn)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 27, 2009, 02:37:11 PM
an old and elegant Viktoria L.

(http://i43.tinypic.com/24ql7r8.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on June 27, 2009, 03:01:54 PM
I have read her memoirs. It was good, not the best memoir I have read but nice (the BEST memoirs out there  is Prince Christopher of Greece memoirs'!) She seems like a nice elegant lady, but quite full of herself.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 03, 2009, 07:44:02 PM
Nice photos, but haven't you got some about when she was a girl?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 03, 2009, 08:54:02 PM
Check this topic. Thousand has been posted ;)

Anyway , here a few


With brother Joachim

(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh282/queenberenice/ViktoriaLuiseandJoachim.jpg)

A painting with mommy

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/DonawithVictoriaLouisebyKaulbach.jpg)

Profile

(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7586/32114344.jpg)

With some traditional costume

(http://i39.tinypic.com/svkl83.jpg)

Playing

(http://i39.tinypic.com/rap077.jpg)





Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 03, 2009, 10:32:15 PM
She was so adorable as a child. ^^
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 06, 2009, 06:59:11 PM
Thank you veryn much Katenka, I adore the portraits of this lady as a girl,
She is one of the most beautiful girls that I've ever seen, my mom thinks the same
too... Thank you again :-)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on July 07, 2009, 10:50:19 AM
(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/44920/2396425190100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/22205/2449653230100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/41242/2427496520100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 07, 2009, 11:52:04 AM
Viktoria L. had one of the cutest smiles i ever seen

(http://i31.tinypic.com/20zchfa.jpg)



Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 07, 2009, 06:44:52 PM
Adagietto, your photos of Viktoria L. as a girl are really lovely, I adore the first
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Adagietto on July 08, 2009, 10:32:33 AM
I'm pleased you liked them, here are one or two more from a similar period:

(http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/11290/2118671770100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/22090/2368015120100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/23061/2393664950100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/19720/2999327330100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 08, 2009, 11:35:22 AM
You welcome !!

Here another of the same photoshoot with a friend (If someone knows who she is, please post the name!)


(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8422/oly3.jpg) (http://img156.imageshack.us/i/oly3.jpg/)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on July 09, 2009, 10:24:58 AM
You welcome !!

Here another of the same photoshoot with a friend (If someone knows who she is, please post the name!)


(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8422/oly3.jpg) (http://img156.imageshack.us/i/oly3.jpg/)


Fantastic ! if indicative of the simple and spontaneous nature of the young princess !

But someone there a full version of this photo?
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 09, 2009, 01:34:07 PM
Sorry i dont have it :(
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 10, 2009, 07:06:43 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3415/3294665823_b8315aef6b_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 13, 2009, 07:07:54 PM
Really lovely pics, thank you veryn much!!!!!!!!!! :-)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 15, 2009, 05:35:30 PM
It's worth restating that royal photos, even of children, rarely show the subject smiling and showing happiness/charm. VL is one of the few with a portfolio of smiling images.
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 17, 2009, 06:38:58 PM
That's true, and her smile is very beautiful :-)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: KarlandZita on September 15, 2009, 02:17:07 PM
Young Princess Viktoria Luise with her mother Empress Auguste Viktoria :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Viktoria%20Luise/vgft.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 15, 2009, 02:31:39 PM
V.L holding her grandaughter, the future queen of Spain Sophie in the day of her christening. Next to them, Friedericke

(http://i31.tinypic.com/s4magy.jpg)