Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Tudors => Topic started by: Arianwen on July 17, 2005, 04:10:09 PM

Title: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Arianwen on July 17, 2005, 04:10:09 PM
Hey, everyone, how about we move those books/movies lists over here? Organise it a bit...:)

Regards,
Arianwen
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 17, 2005, 04:39:27 PM
Old book but Carolly Erickson's Anne Boleyn has been on my bookshelf for almost 30 years.I also have SIX WIVES OF HENRY 8  by Antonia Fraser, Alison Weir and David Starkey.The 1970 BBC serial with Keith Michell is good and available on DVD at Amazon(etc) I loved Anne of the 1000 days with Genevieve Bujold but has there been any thing recent thats decent film wise?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Arianwen on July 17, 2005, 04:47:39 PM
I heard rumours a while ago that they're planning a film about Henry and Anne with Russell Crowe and Kate Winslet. A mate of mine even said that Kate had mentioned it in an interview, but I've found NOTHING about it for quite some time. I've always thought that Russell Crowe would make a REALLY terrific Henry...

Regards,
Arianwen
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 17, 2005, 05:05:43 PM
We recently had a two part tv series about henry 8  over here withRay Winstone as your main man. It was ok but he had this "cor blimey Mary Poppins"type cockney accent which was hilarious....Unintentionally  ;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Arianwen on July 17, 2005, 05:18:50 PM
Quote
We recently had a two part tv series about henry 8  over here withRay Winstone as your main man. It was ok but he had this "cor blimey Mary Poppins"type cockney accent which was hilarious....Unintentionally  ;D


Yes, I'm trying to get a hold of it without setting myself back $100 or so. *sigh*

Regards,
Arianwen
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: dac87 on July 17, 2005, 05:40:39 PM
I liked the motion picture Henry VIII and His Six Wives which also stars Keith Mitchell... For us Romanov fans, it also has Lynne Frederick, who played Tatiana in N&A, playing the ill fated Catherine Howard.  I also likes Anne of a Thousand Days.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 17, 2005, 06:15:42 PM
I thought Ray Winstone was a good Henry VIII. Helena Bonham Carter was fantastic as Anne, and the supporting cast who played Cromwell, Wolsey, Norfolk and the other wives were all good. My only complaint was that Mary and Elizabeth and Edward should have featured more strongly. It was quite historically accurate, too.

Arianwen: $100? I only paid 15Euro. Have you tried Amazon.co.uk or Play.com? Your likely to find it on either of those, quite cheap.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: PssMarieAmelie on July 17, 2005, 08:14:00 PM
I'd always thought that Antonia Fraser's Six Wives of Henry VIII was really good.

I've finished the first half of my birthday present-Joanna Denny's Anne Boleyn....its won me over  a little bit.......
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: lexi4 on July 17, 2005, 11:49:59 PM
As for movies, I love A Lion in Winter with Katherine Hepburn.
And also Anne of 1,000 Days.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 18, 2005, 04:33:36 AM
Oooops I have got Marie Louise Bruce's book on Anne Boleynthats been on my shelf for 30 years not the Erickson one. Also got a very good biog.of Elizabeth Woodville by Baldwin which has some very interesting appendices at the back. Particularly the fate of the Princes and also the Woodvilles and witchcraft. Oh boy, do I need my holiday 8)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: rskkiya on July 18, 2005, 12:03:42 PM
Quote
I thought Ray Winstone was a good Henry VIII. Helena Bonham Carter was fantastic as Anne, and the supporting cast who played Cromwell, Wolsey, Norfolk and the other wives were all good. My only complaint was that Mary and Elizabeth and Edward should have featured more strongly. It was quite historically accurate, too.

Arrrg! I thought it dreadful but its a matter of opinion.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 18, 2005, 12:06:37 PM
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Arrrg! I thought it dreadful but its a matter of opinion.



Why didn't you like it?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elfwine on July 18, 2005, 12:11:22 PM
I thought it was too simplistic, poorly written and badly acted -Henry was awful -horrid common accent more a clown than a king.

Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 18, 2005, 12:18:43 PM
Hahah! Yeah, Winstone's accent was a little irksome, but it hardly ruined it for me. Did any of you see BBC's drama about Charles II? I know he's a Stuart but still. I thought it was brilliant.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 18, 2005, 12:22:24 PM
Hey, I just noticed that I've been promoted to Junior Member! Hurray! : - )
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: rskkiya on July 18, 2005, 12:22:30 PM
Quote


Why didn't you like it?

It seemed rushed - and Anne seemed too... ummmmmm modern for my tastes, not clever -just well almost priggish ... hard to explain the exact problem
I thought  Henry was completely misread - he was a very proud and composed figure with an unusually high voice not an East End bruiser! The real Henry knew that he didn't need to be rough to get want he wanted...this actor seemed to imply that Henry was a mafia hit man...
I may be off base on this as I am no actor!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 18, 2005, 12:55:55 PM
East end Bruiser.....love it Rskkiya. Prince Lieven, i didnt see the Charles II drama but I did see Gunpowder,Treason and Plot,with Robert Carlyle. I have to wait for my husband to nod off and then i quickly change channels to watch these dramas, Himself absolutely hates history!!! ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 18, 2005, 01:17:45 PM
Yeah, I saw Gunpowder, Treason and Plot too. The first episode, about Mary, was OK, but I didn't like the one with James. Why was he so . . . weird. They got some things right, like having Mary speak with a French accent, but why was she a blond?

P.S: You should try to find Charles II on DVD. It was fab.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 18, 2005, 01:19:15 PM
Quote
It seemed rushed - and Anne seemed too... ummmmmm modern for my tastes, not clever -just well almost priggish ... hard to explain the exact problem
I thought  Henry was completely misread - he was a very proud and composed figure with an unusually high voice not an East End bruiser! The real Henry knew that he didn't need to be rough to get want he wanted...this actor seemed to imply that Henry was a mafia hit man...
I may be off base on this as I am no actor!



By the way, I too live in a house of people who aren't nig on history. In fairness, they tend to defer to my wishes when there's a good drama on.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 18, 2005, 01:33:10 PM
CharlesII on DVD, right then,I will buy it for Himself for an early christmas prezzie ;D ;D :o ::)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 18, 2005, 05:23:12 PM
If I knew what he looked like, I'm sure I could picture the diappointed look on his face! In fact, I'll make sure to check Amazon.co.uk after Christmas and see if there's a second hand edition of Charles II for sale - 'unwanted gift, never opened!' : - )
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Finelly on July 18, 2005, 06:47:12 PM
I got turned on to the Plantagenets by reading "Katherine", by Anya Seton.  I then purchased Thomas Costain's four or five book series on the Plantagenets, and the rest is history.   (I often start with fiction and then read the non-fiction....)

Anne of Bohemeia is depicted in Margaret Campbell Barnes' "Within the Hollow Crown", if anyone wants a good fictional read about her.

I think Margaret Campbell Barnes also wrote a novel about Anne of Cleves entitled "My Lady of Cleves", and it was wonderful.

I've read several fiction books about Anne Boleyn, all of which were interesting but there are some good bios of her out.

Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Arianwen on July 18, 2005, 07:37:45 PM
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I got turned on to the Plantagenets by reading "Katherine", by Anya Seton.  I then purchased Thomas Costain's four or five book series on the Plantagenets, and the rest is history.   (I often start with fiction and then read the non-fiction....)

Anne of Bohemeia is depicted in Margaret Campbell Barnes' "Within the Hollow Crown", if anyone wants a good fictional read about her.

I think Margaret Campbell Barnes also wrote a novel about Anne of Cleves entitled "My Lady of Cleves", and it was wonderful.

I've read several fiction books about Anne Boleyn, all of which were interesting but there are some good bios of her out.



My favourites are still 'The Sunne In Splendour' and the Wales trilogy ('Here Be Dragons', 'Falls The Shadow', and 'The Reckoning') by Sharon Kay Penman, but Margaret Campbell Barnes also wrote one about Elizabeth of York, which title I can't remember. I read Barnes' books on Anne of Bohemia and Anne Boleyn, and they were both excellent. I've been trying to track down 'Katherine' for months at local libraries, and I've basically come to terms with the fact that I'll have to buy it. *sigh* More money on books...just what I'm SURE my husband needs...;)

Regards,
Arianwen
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Finelly on July 18, 2005, 10:11:57 PM
You can buy "Katherine" used, on Amazon.com, for cheap!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 19, 2005, 02:32:37 AM
Anya Seton's Katherine, Ihave had about 3 copies that have ended up in the bath - try as i might, icannot get out of the habit of reading in the bath ;)I just go to my local Ottakars and buy another copy straight off the shelf, it doesn't seem to go out of print. All you book lovers out there, have you ever been to Hay on Wye, on the Wales/ England border. Its a small town crammed with bookshops and it even has its own "king" Every time we go I feel as if i have died and gone to heaven.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on July 19, 2005, 06:02:06 AM
Quote
I heard rumours a while ago that they're planning a film about Henry and Anne with Russell Crowe and Kate Winslet. A mate of mine even said that Kate had mentioned it in an interview, but I've found NOTHING about it for quite some time. I've always thought that Russell Crowe would make a REALLY terrific Henry...

Regards,
Arianwen


Russell Crow and Kate Winslet? Hmmm...  I just don't see it somehow. For some reason I can only see ole' Russ as a gladiator, or else a schitzophrenic mathematician. Talk about typecasting!  ;) And Kate just doesn't strike me as Anne at all... (Just like Helena Bonham Carter, to me, didn't really work as Anne Boleyn in the latest version). But that's probably just me.

IMO, it's always better that unknowns play these types of roles because with "stars" it's often really hard to get over their other roles... But maybe they can pull it off... I hope this rumor is true though and they are really planning a movie...

My favorite still remains the ancient  BBC mini-series 'Six Wives of Henry VIII", which I mentioned somewhere else, I think. Keith Mitchell is Henry VIII, and since I never saw him in any other role, in fact didn't even know who he was before I saw this, it worked really well. So did the wives, except for Katherine Parr who didn't look anything like her portraits :-/. The film with Keith Mitchell, that someone else mentioned before, I liked very much too...

On the subject of books, has anyone read a fiction called 'Threads'? Can't think of the author right now, but I do have this book somewhere... It is a Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn novel, but at the same time it's not. Don't want to give too much of the plot away but I will say that it has something to do with reincarnation  ;). Sounds a bit hokey, but it's pretty good - seems well researched and well written.

P.S. I didn't really like the Ray Winstone flick either - he just can't measure up to Keith Mitchell, IMO...


Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 19, 2005, 10:16:10 AM
How about The Private Life Of Henry VIII with Charles Laughton.Its even older than me ;D and pretty bad BUT Merle Oberon played Anne Boleyn and she looked incredibly like her. ( I should imagine, I am not THAT old)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Silja on July 19, 2005, 11:14:01 AM
Quote
Arrrg! I thought it dreadful but its a matter of opinion.


So did I! Except for Helena Bonham Carter's performance, which I rather liked. But the script was dreadful. Just a mixture of sex and crime (Henry VIII was however more than this). Besides, the sets were completely unhistorical.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Silja on July 19, 2005, 11:21:51 AM
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[ The real Henry knew that he didn't need to be rough to get want he wanted...this actor seemed to imply that Henry was a mafia hit man...


This sums it up very well  :P ;D.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Jane on July 19, 2005, 02:44:48 PM
Quote
How about The Private Life Of Henry VIII with Charles Laughton.


Laughton really chews the scenery in that one, but it's still one of the great portrayals of Henry.  To me, the wedding night scene between Henry and Anne of Cleves (played by the incomparable Elsa Lanchester) was easily the best part of the entire film.  

I tried, I really did, with the recent miniseries, but I can never get past Ray Winstone's accent.  And I adore Helena Bonham Carter (well, except for her dress sense), so I had high hopes for it.  Gorgeous costumes, though.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: trixiebelle on July 21, 2005, 03:10:19 PM
Jane wrote:  Laughton really chews the scenery in that one, but it's still one of the great portrayals of Henry.  To me, the wedding night scene between Henry and Anne of Cleves (played by the incomparable Elsa Lanchester) was easily the best part of the entire film.  

Jane, did you know that Laughton and Lanchester were married in real life?  Makes for a more interesting scene, doesn't it?  ;)

I liked the miniseries with Keith Mitchell as well.  My age is showing, but I cannot think of any of today's actors to play Henry VIII (especially Russell Crowe- sorry girls, but him???   :o  )
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Finelly on July 21, 2005, 10:59:23 PM
Laughton and Lancaster were married in real life....but Laughton was gay........
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Tsarfan on July 22, 2005, 10:40:26 AM
Quote
P.S: You should try to find Charles II on DVD. It was fab.


Yes, it was wonderful.  However, try to get the U.K. release.  It contains significantly more footage than the U.S. release (and requires a player that can read Region II discs).
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Tsarfan on July 22, 2005, 10:50:48 AM
Quote
As for movies, I love A Lion in Winter with Katherine Hepburn.
And also Anne of 1,000 Days.


I, too, loved The Lion in Winter -- but as a movie, not a historical re-enactment.  Such lines as, "it's 1185 . . . we're all barbarians", made it more a vehicle for Katherine Hepburn than a means of learning about the fantastically complex, influential, and culturally-accomplished Eleanor of Aquataine.

Anne of the Thousand Days was also superb -- and inexplicably not yet released on DVD.

What are everyone's views of the fictional Autobiography of Henry VIII:  With Notes by his Fool, Will Sommers?  I thought Margaret George presented a fascinating "it-could-have-happened-this-way" look at what might have motivated Henry VIII's erratic and ultimately horrific decline.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: rskkiya on July 22, 2005, 11:10:27 AM
Quote

I, too, loved The Lion in Winter -- but as a movie, not a historical re-enactment.  Such lines as, "it's 1185 . . . we're all barbarians", made it more a vehicle for Katherine Hepburn than a means of learning about the fantastically complex, influential, and culturally-accomplished Eleanor of Aquataine.

Anne of the Thousand Days was also superb -- and inexplicably not yet released on DVD.

What are everyone's views of the fictional Autobiography of Henry VIII:  With Notes by his Fool, Will Sommers?  I thought Margaret George presented a fascinating "it-could-have-happened-this-way" look at what might have motivated Henry VIII's erratic and ultimately horrific decline.



Well at least they got the chickens running thru' the "Royal Progress"  right! LIW is one of the best films that I have ever seen on that period ..nice and dirty!

Not keen on "Anne of a Thousand Days" but "Becket" is rather tasty.

   -then again- I have perverse taste in films!
rskkiya
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on July 22, 2005, 11:26:04 AM
Quote

I, too, loved The Lion in Winter -- but as a movie, not a historical re-enactment.  Such lines as, "it's 1185 . . . we're all barbarians", made it more a vehicle for Katherine Hepburn than a means of learning about the fantastically complex, influential, and culturally-accomplished Eleanor of Aquataine.

Anne of the Thousand Days was also superb -- and inexplicably not yet released on DVD.

What are everyone's views of the fictional Autobiography of Henry VIII:  With Notes by his Fool, Will Sommers?  I thought Margaret George presented a fascinating "it-could-have-happened-this-way" look at what might have motivated Henry VIII's erratic and ultimately horrific decline.



Yes, I too loved that book. Will's Somers provides witty barbs as dry as a martini to make sure things don't get too biased in Henry's favour. I also like Margaret George's book 'Mary Queen of Scotland and the Isles', though I must admit that I sometimes felt like slapping Mary across her pretty little face!

Has anyone read 'the Seventh Son' by Reay Tanahill. It's well worth a read.

I can only fault Charles II: the Power and the Passion on one thing - Henrietta Maria, played wonderfully by Diana Rigg, speaks with an English accent. But apart from that, BUY IT NOW!!!!!!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: dac87 on July 31, 2005, 06:13:27 PM
If anyone is interested, they are making a movie based on the book "The Other Boleyn Girl".  They already made a tv movie adaptation.  The new film is to have Keira Knightly as Anne Boleyn.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Arianwen on July 31, 2005, 08:41:02 PM
Quote
If anyone is interested, they are making a movie based on the book "The Other Boleyn Girl".  They already made a tv movie adaptation.  The new film is to have Keira Knightly as Anne Boleyn.


Where did you hear that? I just checked imdb.com and couldn't find anything about it...I'm not sure how I'd feel about Keira Knightley as Anne, though...:-/

Regards,
Arianwen
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on August 01, 2005, 01:05:31 AM
I haven't heard anything about a movie of The Other Boleyn Girl, either. Please keep us posted.

As for Keira Knightley, I just read in the paper that she will star as Elizabeth Bennet in a new British film of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, to be released in mid September. Knightley is not my favorite actress - she's beautiful but IMO rather affected and mannered in her acting - and I'm having even more trouble imagining her as Elizabeth B. than Anne B.! At least the real Anne had a certain dramatic sweep and theatricality to her personality, and in TOBG she's supposed to be "acting" the role of an innocent young girl all the time (because she's really an evil scheming witch!). Knightley might be able to pull that off. But Elizabeth Bennett is supposed to be frank, natural, and down to earth. Can Keira handle it? Maybe with the right director?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: nerdycool on August 01, 2005, 01:37:29 AM
This is from her web site forum. In the first post there's a link to an article about the movie. However, the article is dated from May 2004. Supposedly, Miramax bought the rights to it. I searched Miramax's website, but didn't find anything. However, that's not saying much because their site isn't that indepth. It's all about what's out now and some movies that are soon to be released. No news section or anything. But I don't think it's being made because surely we would have heard something by now. But I do think that Knightly would make a fabulous Anne...if indeed a known actress HAD to play her.

http://www.kkwavefront.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244

On another note about Philippa Gregory, on her website, there is news that in Novmeber of this year, her new book "A Constant Princess" will be published. It is about Katharine of Aragon's early life in England as Princess of Wales and the tale of her marriage to Henry. Here's the amazon.co.uk's listing of it...  amazon.com doesn't have the synopsis, but you can preorder

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007190301/qid%3D1118064625/sr%3D2-2/ref%3Dsr%5F2%5F11%5F2/026-0414000-5715641
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: JulianC on August 01, 2005, 01:44:24 AM
Well, I preferred Helena Bonham Carter playing another Tudor in "Lady Jane" and her husband played by Cary Elwes.  
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on August 18, 2005, 10:25:30 AM
Hey, Blanche, absolutely agree with you about Glenda Jackson. She also played Elizabeth to Vanessa Redgrave's Mary Queen of Scots in the movie of the same name. Our Glenda is now a Labour M.P. and as you would expsct, she's a feisty old so-and-so.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on October 20, 2005, 11:17:34 AM
Hi all, I'm reviving this thread to bring some news:

2006 will see the sequel of 1998's 'Elizabeth' with Cate Blanchett and Geoffrey Rush returning as Elizabeth and Walsingham, Jeremy Irons playing Leicester (as he did to Mirren's Elizabeth - squeals of delight from Kim and Bluetoria  ;D). Hugh Dancy will also be in it, but I don't know as whom. It will be title 'Elizabeth: the Golden Age'.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 20, 2005, 11:24:11 AM
Quote
Anyone seen the BBC series Elizabeth R, it is excellent, I totaly recomend it, I think Glenda Jackson was brilliant, no actress I've seen playing Elizabeth is as good as Glenda was. She done Elizabeth as a strong-minded, powerful queen, in my opinion I think Cate Blanchette in the film Elizabeth done her as more of a weak character. I like the film Henry VIII and His Six Wives with Keith Michell another brilliant actor as Henry, Charlotte Rampling was good at Anne Boleyn although she didn't look much like her but she did have the beautiful long black hair like Anne and the other actresses who played the rest of the wives were also good , Michael Gough was good also as Norfolk. The Ray Winstone version was a load of rubbish, Henry VIII with a cockney accent, as if.


Blanche I absolutely agree with all your assessments. Jackson was great in ER, and I really disliked Blanchette's character. And Keith Mitchell was the best Henry while Ray Winstone  was ridiculous and clownish (I was puzzled by the cockney accent too  ???).
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 20, 2005, 11:25:11 AM
Quote
Hi all, I'm reviving this thread to bring some news:

2006 will see the sequel of 1998's 'Elizabeth' with Cate Blanchett and Geoffrey Rush


Oh no! Why  ???  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 20, 2005, 11:26:26 AM
Quote
Glenda Jackson... also played Elizabeth to Vanessa Redgrave's Mary Queen of Scots in the movie of the same name.

But minus the fake nose  ;).
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on October 20, 2005, 11:29:49 AM
Quote

Oh no! Why  ???  ;)


Just one reason, methinks - $$$  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on October 20, 2005, 12:56:44 PM
Oh dear, I wasn't to keen on that film altho I think Cate Blanchette is stunning I'm not too keen on her Elizabeth.
Maybe she will borrow Helen Mirren's wobbly schnoz especially for Helen A :D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 20, 2005, 01:02:09 PM
Quote

Maybe she will borrow Helen Mirren's wobbly schnoz especially for Helen A :D


Or she could use Glends Jackson's from Elizabeth R. - either one will do!  :D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on October 21, 2005, 01:03:05 AM
Has anyone read "Elizabeth, Captive Princess" by Margaret Irwin? It was the first historical novel I ever read! I think it's from the 1950s. It's about Elizabeth in the reign of Mary.



Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Vicki on October 21, 2005, 01:00:59 PM
Yes, I've read "Elizabeth, Captive Princess" as well as Margaret Irwin's other two novels, "Young Bess" and "Elizabeth and the Prince of Spain".  They're among my favorite historical novels about the Tudors.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on October 21, 2005, 02:02:10 PM
Hey, I was just wondering, has anyone here read all three 'Six Wives' books - Fraser's, Weir's and Starkey's?

I read Fraser's and really enjoyed it, so I thought investing in one of the others would be a waste of money. But can anyone recommend either of them? Perhaps I can find them cheap somewhere, and it might be worth it . . .
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on October 21, 2005, 02:10:59 PM
I think Weir's is definitely worth it, because I like her style of writing and her research is as always very thorough. Starkey's book I would ordinarily recommend, because he is even more thorough, but I think he spends too much time on the Divorce and at times the narrative really lags... He said that his intention in writing his Six Wives was to devote just as much time to each wife as they had actually earned in Henry's lifetime... which sounds good in print but doesn't necessarily make for a very exciting book. Thus Catherine of Aragon's is the longest section, Anne Boleyn's the next longest, and you can work out the rest. If you are willing to splurge, however, I think Starkey's book is worth the boring longueurs because a very clear picture of Anne Boleyn as a beautiful, sexy, brilliant, scheming little minx (a true credit to the Boleyn name) does emerge, in no small part because he quotes a lot from her surviving letters.  
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on October 21, 2005, 02:20:22 PM
Thanks Elisabeth!

I've heard that Starkey gives a rather revolutionary view of Catherine of Aragon, saying she was not really the saint most people think, and was just as involved in political intrigue as her successor. When he came under fire for this, he defended himself by saying that Catherine would have been stupid to have had no political awareness in Tudor England.

I thougt his book might be a bit drab, since he isn't a very humourous person. Fraser intersperses the odd little joke - like when she refers to Henry as (I think) 'the villainous maypoll around which all these women had to dance'.  ;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on October 21, 2005, 02:28:40 PM
LOL, Prince! I admit I haven't read Fraser's book - an oversight on my part, perhaps, but then, there are so many "Six Wives" books out there right now, perhaps I can be forgiven????

It's true that Starkey is not overly sympathetic to Catherine of Aragon, an approach which I rather liked, as a matter of fact. It makes a nice change from the usual fawning treatment of the Spanish princess. Starkey points out that early on in the divorce proceedings even Rome suggested that Catherine enter a convent in order to resolve the sticky situation, but she categorically refused. (BTW, Mary's position as princess would not have been in the least affected by such a change in Catherine's status.)

I guess what it comes down to is that if you want a well-paced narrative, read Weir. If you want technical detail, read Starkey. The former is more accessible to most readers, the latter more scholarly (but it still suffers from a certain lack of organization, IMO, and a very abrupt ending - I think he could have used a better editor).  
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on October 21, 2005, 02:35:37 PM
We forgive you Elisabeth!  ;D

But I heartily recommend Fraser's book. I don't think it will tell you anything you didn't know already, but if you see it in a library or something, I would advise getting it. I think she is farely unbiased and impartial with all the wives, and my only complaint is there is a little too much attention given to Catherine of Aragon's time as Dowager Princess of Wales during Henry VII's reign, and her money problems etc, which becomes a little tedious - still a wonderful read, though not her best (that honour I reserve for Marie-Antoinette: the Journey).
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on October 21, 2005, 03:20:23 PM
I have all three and they are all a little different. Weir is getting a bit tatty and I quite like Frasers but Starkey's version has that slight edge to it that I like.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on October 21, 2005, 05:03:35 PM
Quote
Yes, I've read "Elizabeth, Captive Princess" as well as Margaret Irwin's other two novels, "Young Bess" and "Elizabeth and the Prince of Spain".  They're among my favorite historical novels about the Tudors.


Thanks Vicki for reminding me that it was a trilogy. I've only read one of the books though. Elizabeth spends the whole of the first chapter in bed, scoffing sweetmeats!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on October 21, 2005, 06:11:36 PM
Quote

Elizabeth spends the whole of the first chapter in bed, scoffing sweetmeats!


Nice work, if you can get it.  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 01, 2005, 12:34:55 PM
Dear boy, isn't that what you are doing all this week  ;D
I have just received my umpteenth copy of Rosemary Hawley Jarman's  A Crown in Candlelight about Katherine de Valois. It covers her childhood in France, her marriage with Henry V and her " liason" with Owen Tudor. I highly recommend it,it is exceptionally well researched and beautifully written ( and it only cost me £5 from Amazon ;))
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 01, 2005, 01:02:52 PM
Quote
Dear boy, isn't that what you are doing all this week  ;D


That's beside the point . . .
;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on November 07, 2005, 09:25:50 PM
Quote
Has anyone read "Elizabeth, Captive Princess" by Margaret Irwin? It was the first historical novel I ever read! I think it's from the 1950s. It's about Elizabeth in the reign of Mary.



 


Yes, I have read it. Also, the one that came before, "Young Bess," by Margaret Irwin. It was made into what is now a great classic movie starring Jean Simmons and Stewart Granger - a GREAT love story about the teenage Elizabeth's fatal romance with Thomas Seymour.

I grew up reading the Norah Loft historical novels - "The King's Pleasure" about Katharine of Aragon was one of the best and most heart-rending; also very accurate.

I enjoyed all the Rosemary Hawley Jarman's books "Crown in the Candlelight" and "The King's Grey Mare" about Elizabeth Woodville are fantastic, but my all-time favorite of hers is "We Speak No Treason" about Richard III.

I got "The Lion In Winter" for Christmas so I can watch it whenever I want.

I love"Anne of the Thousand Days" - one of the best portrayals of Anne Boleyn, IMO. I also highly rate "A Man for All Seasons" about St THomas More, starring Richard Scolfield.

Many other movies mentioned here I have really liked, except for "Elizabeth" with Cate Blanchett. I thought Cate made a PERFECT Elizabeth Tudor - I just think there were many, many historical inaccuracies in the film itself, particularly the portrayal of Mary Tudor.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 08, 2005, 11:17:02 AM
Yes, I thought Blanchett - as well as Geoffrey Rush - was a bright spot in that film. Kathy Burke is a good actress but - as I think was mentioned elsewhere - she was quite plump in the film, whereas the real Mary was wafer think by the time she died.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 08, 2005, 12:01:55 PM
Yay Kathy Burke..... not a good Queen Mary but a brilliant Waynetta Slob ;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on November 09, 2005, 12:04:29 PM
Let's not forget "The Virgin Queen" with Bette Davis. The sets are not the greatest, but Bette's performance is one of THE best portrayals of any queen by any actress ever, IMO. Bette  magnificently captures the grandeur, paranoia, loneliness, jealousy, brilliance, sentimentality, magnanimity of Elizabeth Tudor's psyche.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 09, 2005, 03:21:04 PM
OMG I had forgotten about Bette.. what an actress, she is one of my all time icons. Apparently she developed a particular "striding" walk when she portrayed Elizabeth and Joan Crawford would tease her mercilously...but that is another story ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on November 09, 2005, 07:32:07 PM
Yes, Bette was GREAT as Elizabeth R! "Elizabeth and Essex" with Errol Flynn as Essex is good, too. It is the total tragic drama of the woman who always had to sacrifice love for power.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 09:15:06 AM
Kimberly,

We started to have a conversation about "Virgin's Lover" on another thread, when I just started reading it. I am now more than half way done and it is SO BAD!!! I can't believe that she portrayed Elizabeth this way... I am going to keep reading because I want to at least get to the part when Amy Robsart falls down the stairs and see how the author handles that  ::)...   I am really surprised that a female author would portray all her women characters this way, including even Elizabeth. It sounds like a mysogenist wrote this book - the female characters are all so unlikable and even pathetic! It's really too bad because Philippa Gregory is a popular author (although for the life of me I can't figure out why) and many people think that her stories are historically accurate....  :P

Helen
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 10, 2005, 10:19:45 AM
I gave up 3/4 of the way through it was such awful rubbish....I think she has written another one on Katherine of Aragon.....yikes :D
Now, a really well written fiction about Elizabeth is "Legacy" by Susan Kay and also Queen's Bastard by Robin Maxwell. I enjoyed them and I didn't end up chucking the books out of the window like I did with Virgin Lover grrrrr
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 10:42:58 AM
Quote
I gave up 3/4 of the way through it was such awful rubbish....I think she has written another one on Katherine of Aragon.....yikes :D
Now, a really well written fiction about Elizabeth is "Legacy" by Susan Kay and also Queen's Bastard by Robin Maxwell. I enjoyed them and I didn't end up chucking the books out of the window like I did with Virgin Lover grrrrr


Based on Gregory's two books I have attempted to read so far, I can only imagine what she is going to do with Katherine of Aragon (ouch!). I was never able to finish The Other Boleyn Girl (got about 1/3 way through), but I disliked it for different reasons than Virgin, mainly for all the blatant inaccuracies. This one is just embarassingly bad. I guess Ms Gregory feels that she can basically write anything at this point and people will buy it... I am almost tempted to read the Aragon one when it comes out just to see what she has done with it!

I read the Legacy, but not Queen's Bastard - the title scared me off... But I have read Maxwell's other book, I think it was called The Queen and the Gypsy (or something like that) - it was about the Amy Robsart-Dudley-Elizabeth triangle too but it was a lot better than Gregory's latest nonsense!   ::)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 10, 2005, 11:39:35 AM
How does she portray Elizabeth, Helen? Very weak and drippy? I've never liked Philippa Gregory, to be honest. Legacy was wonderful though!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 10, 2005, 11:49:37 AM
Agree with you there Helen The Queen and the Gypsy was good.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 10, 2005, 12:28:48 PM
I think "My Lady of Cleves" has already been mentioned but has anyone read it? Full marks for getting a whole novel out of Anne's life, but the Anne character is spunkier and more attractive than the real Anne. She even gets to sleep with Henry after Catherine Howard's execution (which must have been a dubious pleasure....).
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 12:38:21 PM
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I think "My Lady of Cleves" has already been mentioned but has anyone read it? Full marks for getting a whole novel out of Anne's life, but the Anne character is spunkier and more attractive than the real Anne. She even gets to sleep with Henry after Catherine Howard's execution (which must have been a dubious pleasure....).


I read it. Too much "artistic license" for my taste. Was that the one where Hans Holbein was in love with her, or am I getting it confused with another book?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 10, 2005, 12:40:06 PM
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I read it. Too much "artistic license" for my taste. Was that the one where Hans Holbein was in love with her, or am I getting it confused with another book?



Yes Hans Holbein was the real love of her life (only he could see her true inner beauty.....). Too bad he died of the plague.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 12:47:09 PM
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How does she portray Elizabeth, Helen?


It's really sickening actually. Throughout the whole book, it's about how Elizabeth can't really do anything because she is a young woman alone - no father no husband - poor thing! In this book, she is as bad as Amy Robsart, who is a really annoying character. And then Cecil always keeps lecturing her how she should  rule her country like a man  and Elizabeth goes : But I can't! I'm not a man, I am oly a woman alone - how can I rule the country? And she is always lamenting her " single state" and constantly pressuring Dudley to divorce his wife and marry her  ???.

And saying to Dudley all the time how she basically just always wants to lay down and die when he is not around. Please, give me a break...  ::) It's like one of those really bad romance novels, but even worse. And basically you can tell that the author tries to convey a message that a woman could not really rule unless she had some guy behind her telling her what to do. Basically the complete opposite of what Elizabeth really was about...  :P

Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 12:47:59 PM
Quote


Yes Hans Holbein was the real love of her life (only he could see her true inner beauty.....). Too bad he died of the plague.


Yep, thanks, that's the one. Hated it... I mean, come on.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 10, 2005, 12:52:39 PM
Quote

It's really sickening actually. Throughout the whole book, it's about how Elizabeth can't really do anything because she is a young woman alone - no father no husband - poor thing! In this book, she is as bad as Amy Robsart, who is a really annoying character. And then Cecil always keeps lecturing her how she should  rule her country like a man  and Elizabeth goes : But I can't! I'm not a man, I am oly a woman alone - how can I rule the country? And she is always lamenting her " single state" and constantly pressuring Dudley to divorce his wife and marry her  ???.

And saying to Dudley all the time how she basically just always wants to lay down and die when he is not around. Please, give me a break...  ::) It's like one of those really bad romance novels, but even worse. And basically you can tell that the author tries to convey a message that a woman could not really rule unless she had some guy behind her telling her what to do. Basically the complete opposite of what Elizabeth really was about...  :P



Thanks. Ugh, you'd swear it was written by some male chauvinist, by the sound of it . . . Legacy is a much better potrayel of Elizabeth.

BTW, anyone read either 'When Christ and His Saints Slept' or 'Time and Chance' by Sharon Penman? I'm thinking of buying them and would appreciate a recommendations!  :) I recently read one of Penman's historical murder mysteries - 'The Queen's Man-. The Queen in question is Eleanor of Aquitaine. Quite a good book.  :)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 01:05:47 PM
I find that really good historical fiction is pretty rare... One author I really like is Jean Plaidy, whose historical fiction is well researched and well written and she doesn't tend to "fantisize" too much. She wrote a whole slew of serial historical fiction about the Tudors and all very good. Unfortunately, often her books end up with romance novel - like covers, which is too bad because what's inside is very good quaility stuff. But I don't think the author has too much control over what's on the cover. Besides, she is dead. But she did write a lot about a whole slew of British royalty, strating with the Platangenets and ending with the Hanoverians... Highly recommended.

Another one I really like is Edward Rutherfurd, even though he doesn't write about royalty specifically but more like epic history, royalty pops up once in a while,  the rest of the characters are fictional but wonderfully developed! His best two, IMO, are London and Russka.  London covers the Tudor era of course, among other eras, and Henry VIII and Elizabeth and Mary, make cameo appearances... Good stuff.

Sorry, PL, I didn't read those two books you mention.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 10, 2005, 01:08:09 PM
Don't worry bout it Helen.  :) When Christ and His Saints slept concentrates on the English civil war between King Stephen and his cousin Empress Matilda, with Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine entering the frame in the end. Time and Chance is exclusively about Henry and Eleanor, and the trilogy is to culminate with another book sometime.

A word about Jean Plaidy - I liked two ones about QV: 'Victoria in the Wings' and 'Victoria Victorious' but I read some on the Tudors and Stuarts and just find them a bit . . . bland, I suppose, and old fashioned.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 01:12:13 PM
Quote
I read some on the Tudors and Stuarts and just find them a bit . . . bland, I suppose, and old fashioned.

I liked them that way because it seemed more authentic. Her novels almost read like non-fiction in a way, only with a dialogue among the characters. P. Gregory is the one who tries to "update" her fiction, and that's when you end up with a mess!

I guess I just don't like any kind of personal "elaboration" on the part of the author, just give me the facts of what happened! I don't know why I even read fiction - I should just stick with non-fiction!   ;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 10, 2005, 01:17:00 PM
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Don't worry bout it Helen.  :) When Christ and His Saints slept concentrates on the English civil war between King Stephen and his cousin Empress Matilda, with Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine entering the frame in the end. Time and Chance is exclusively about Henry and Eleanor, and the trilogy is to culminate with another book sometime.

A word about Jean Plaidy - I liked two ones about QV: 'Victoria in the Wings' and 'Victoria Victorious' but I read some on the Tudors and Stuarts and just find them a bit . . . bland, I suppose, and old fashioned.


I found Jean Plaidy better on the foreign monarchs. The Ferdinand and Isabella trilogy was excellent: Spain for the Sovereigns, The something and the Pomegranate (Guitar? :-/) and Daughters of Spain.The titles alone made you want to read them.

Under the name Victoria Holt, she also wrote "The Queen's Confession" -  a fictional autobiography of Marie Antoinette!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 01:19:20 PM
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Under the name Victoria Holt, she also wrote "The Queen's Confession" -  a fictional autobiography of Marie Antoinette!


I read that too, it wasn't too bad, although I like her British ones better, where she doesn't write from first person perspective. I never read Isabella and Ferdinand trilogy, I think it's out of print?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 10, 2005, 01:23:33 PM
Victoria Victorious is from the first person - it reads like a diary I think.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 10, 2005, 01:46:49 PM
Quote
Victoria Victorious is from the first person - it reads like a diary I think.


Yeah, that's just like the Marie Antoinette one... I generally don't ike this type of thing as the authors tend to end up taking too many liberties with the story. I like historical fiction to be as close to known historical facts as possible. I know, it's really boring and dry, but I tend to lose interest when I realize that something is the author's conjecture. This is why I say I should probably just stick with non-fiction!  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 10, 2005, 02:00:24 PM
I understand you Helen. But I also realise when the author has to make up a minor event or character if it is neccessary - in the Sunne in Splendour, only 5 characters in the whole book are made up, all pretty minor. Most impressive, IMO.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 11, 2005, 02:19:40 AM
I read My Lady of Cleves before I reached teenage years ( printed by Caxton ;D) and I really enjoyed it then. As for Jean Plaidy...again, pre teenage but her best IMO was her trilogy about Catherine De Medici. Another set of Tudor books from my dim and distant past were written by Norah Lofts..."The Lute Player" etc. Romanticised for sure but I think she knocked spots off Ms. Gregory.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 11, 2005, 07:36:09 AM
OK here is a little something to make Helen dash out to her local bookstore....NOT ;D
The Constant Princess; by Philippa Gregory... A novel about Katherine of Aragon. " Philippa Gregory gives us a very different version of the pious middle-aged wife. Her Katherine is sexy, politically astute and ambitious. Henry VII feels desire pulse in his groin when he first sees his prospective daughter-in-law----- this ripe little beauty." According to Gregory'Katherine lies about the non-consumation of her marriage to Arthur,and enjoys "steamy nights of passion" with him.She throws herself into the role of ruler, marching into battle in full armour :o. According to the write-up in the Mail today "As always, Gregory's research is impeccable" Egad and gadzooks ;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 11, 2005, 08:25:42 AM
Quote
A novel about Katherine of Aragon. " Philippa Gregory gives us a very different version of the pious middle-aged wife. Her Katherine is sexy, politically astute and ambitious. Henry VII feels desire pulse in his groin when he first sees his prospective daughter-in-law----- this ripe little beauty." According to Gregory'Katherine lies about the non-consumation of her marriage to Arthur,and enjoys "steamy nights of passion" with him.She throws herself into the role of ruler, marching into battle in full armour :o. According to the write-up in the Mail today "As always, Gregory's research is impeccable" Egad and gadzooks ;D



Why am I not surprised!  :P  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on November 11, 2005, 08:55:52 AM
I always thought Anya Seton's "Katharine" was one of the best historical novels about that era that I ever read. And I am VERY picky!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 11, 2005, 10:18:09 AM
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Philippa Gregory gives us a very different version of the pious middle-aged wife. Her Katherine is sexy, politically astute and ambitious.


So basically her Katherine is NOT Katherine, just a product of her over fertile imagination.  :P :P :P

BTW Elena Maria, I read and loved 'Katherine' too.  :)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 11, 2005, 11:46:11 AM
Quote

So basically her Katherine is NOT Katherine, just a product of her over fertile imagination.  :P :P :P



Just as Elizabeth wasn't Elizabeth in "Virgin's lover" but a product of Ms Gregory overactive imagination (or an overactive desire to cash in  ;)).

H
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 11, 2005, 12:23:50 PM
LOL, couldn't have put it better myself Helen! ;D How she is so popular a writer is beyond me . . .
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 11, 2005, 12:46:28 PM
Actually to be fair, some of her "non-royal" historical novels are ok for reading on the beach.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 11, 2005, 01:03:46 PM
Have you read more of her books then Kim?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 11, 2005, 01:18:31 PM
She wrote a very good book about the slave traders in Bristol. BTW she has a website where you can chat and discuss her books.Don't tell Helen. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on November 11, 2005, 02:00:06 PM
I have NEVER read Philippa Gregory and now I assure you I never will. I cannot imagine taking such liberties with the lives of real historical characters, especially Queen Katharine of Arargon!! She was a woman of such honor and integrity and would never have lied about the  non-consummation of her marriage to Prince Arthur. She would NEVER have lied to a marriage tribunal. A historical novel, like a good painting, is an artistic way of exploring the personality of a famous person or an aspect of their life in a way that one cannot in a non-fiction biography. There are freedoms one can take to emphasize certain aspects of the person or incident, but the author has the responsibility not to distort the facts of history in an unrecognizable way, or have a real person doing something that would have been totally out of character for him or her - like Philppa Gregory's Katherine of Aragon, or Carolly Erickson's new novel about Marie-Antoinette - just an excuse to write sex novels masquerading under the name of some queeen. I have no patience with trash.

My favorite novel about a Tudor queen is Ford Madox Ford's "The Fifth Queen" about Katherine Howard. It is meticulously researched and he makes the whole era come alive. He contends that Katherine H was not as loose as she is usually portrayed but very learned and lovely, which makes sense because Henry was usually attracted to clever women. She was descended from the Plantagenets and had more royal blood than the Tudors, but grew up in poverty, a bit unsupervised.  Ford  thinks that she was trying to reconcile Henry VIII to Rome, which is why she was framed. She signed a confession in order to make them stop torturing her maids and was beheaded. Henry really loved her and was destroyed by her death. It might be a bit dated for the younger crowd, but the writing is superb and very descriptive, very accurate.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on November 11, 2005, 02:09:17 PM
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I read My Lady of Cleves before I reached teenage years ( printed by Caxton ;D) and I really enjoyed it then. As for Jean Plaidy...again, pre teenage but her best IMO was her trilogy about Catherine De Medici. Another set of Tudor books from my dim and distant past were written by Norah Lofts..."The Lute Player" etc. Romanticised for sure but I think she knocked spots off Ms. Gregory.



I grew up reading Jean Plaidy and Norah Lofts. Norah Lofts' The King's Pleasure is about Katharine of Aragon and it is better than almost ANY contemporary novels that I have come across about her. It captures the youthful passion of Henry and his first wife (without going into every detail of their private conjugal relations), as well as their torrid and heart-rending break-up 20years later. I think Henry loved Katharine of Aragon the most of all his wives and he was always trying to recapture what he had originally with her.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 11, 2005, 02:37:58 PM
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BTW she has a website where you can chat and discuss her books.Don't tell Helen. ;D ;D ;D


Ooh I wish you didn't tell me... I'm so tempted... (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4029/devils9am.jpg)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 11, 2005, 03:13:25 PM
It got hacked the other day........hmmmm are you sure you didn't find it 8)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 11, 2005, 03:15:34 PM
Dear Elena I agree with you about "The King's Pleasure" a lovely book.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 11, 2005, 05:44:17 PM
Quote
It got hacked the other day........hmmmm are you sure you didn't find it 8)


I am sure I wouldn't be the only one who would have a lot to say about this so-called book  ;).

Quote
...I agree with you about "The King's Pleasure" a lovely book.


I read "The King's Pleasure" too, and liked it very much. It was not over the top, accurate, yet still held your attention. It actually reminded of the way Jean Plaidy writes.

I still can't get over what Phillipa Gregory is planning to spew out about Katherine of Aragon in her new book!  :o It sounds that it will be even worse than Virgin...  ::)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 11, 2005, 05:53:03 PM
What's the opinion of 'the Other Boleyn Girl'?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 11, 2005, 05:55:41 PM
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What's the opinion of 'the Other Boleyn Girl'?


I think I mentioned something about it earlier. To be honest, I couldn't finish it, once I got load of all the numerous inaccuracies - that was the end for me...
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 11, 2005, 06:00:08 PM
Thanks Helen. What about 'the Secret Diary of Anne Boleyn', by Robin Maxwell? I thought it was ok.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on November 12, 2005, 01:01:12 PM
I agree that Philippa Gregory's Tudor novels are unreadable, with the sole exception of The Other Boleyn Girl, which seemed to me noteworthy if only because it was so completely over the top... Anne Boleyn is portrayed as the ultimate villainess, not only a witch, but an evil temptress who would seduce her very own brother if it would give her an heir to the throne... Sorry, can't take this seriously as historical fiction at all, but it made for a very good read. You just have to suspend your disbelief entirely (out with historical facts and probabilities) and go along for the ride. It's a melodrama, a soap opera, with a heavy dose of the Gothic, like "Dark Shadows" or something. In other words, don't read it for the  historical nuance, because there is none - no: just enjoy the camp. ;)

As for me, I have just finished rereading Anya Seton's Green Darkness, a novel about reincarnation set in Tudor times (which are brilliantly portrayed indeed!), with brief cameo appearances by our very own Ed, Mary and Lizzy. And currently I am reading, for the first time, on the strong recommendation of our dear Prince and others here, Katherine, by the same author. What can I say, it's superb! Even better than Green Darkness. In fact, I can't believe I've never read this novel before - how much I've missed out on! Seton is absolutely the exemplary historical novelist, I can't even imagine how much research time went into both these books... not to mention the fact that she's a brilliant storyteller. She makes writers like Gregory and even George and Jarman seem pale and inadequate by comparison. She is truly a master of her genre. I can't recommend these books highly enough... read them both! You will not be disappointed, in fact, you will be elated! What a pity that Seton didn't write more historical novels set during the Plantagenet and Tudor eras! What a loss! I wish she were still alive so that I could send her a fan letter. Yes, she's utterly brilliant, my current fave rave.    
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 12, 2005, 01:14:54 PM
Hurrah! We successfully converted Elisabeth to Anya Seton!  ;) Glad you like it. I think the characters are wonderfully portrayed, though sometimes I wondered why Katherine loved John so much! And it was a little irksome that although Blanche of Lancaster was beautiful, no other women wear, even the Fair Maid of Kent, so as not to overshadow Katherine. But a fab book!  :D

BTW, I just bought 'When Christ and His Saints Slept' and 'Time and Chance' today, as well as 'The Last Medieval Queens' about the roles of Elizabeth of York and her three immediate predeccessors.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 12, 2005, 01:23:22 PM
Quote
as well as 'The Last Medieval Queens' about the roles of Elizabeth of York and her three immediate predeccessors.


Is this the one by Joanna Laynesmith? It's a scholarly study of late mediaeval "queenship". It sounds very good indeed.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 12, 2005, 01:49:04 PM
Yes, that's the one, I can't wait to read it but I have a long waiting list! I also bought 'The Image of the King' - a character study in contrast about Charles I and Charles II, and a book about the Valois kings of France, so I have a lot to read!  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 12, 2005, 01:56:17 PM
Quote
Yes, that's the one, I can't wait to read it but I have a long waiting list! I also bought 'The Image of the King' - a character study in contrast about Charles I and Charles II, and a book about the Valois kings of France, so I have a lot to read!  ;)


There's a review of it here:

http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/paper/gibbons.html


Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 12, 2005, 02:15:57 PM
I just added two of the Seton books to my library request list, I hope I can get through the others I plan on reading soon... Thanks Elisabeth and PL for the recommendations!

P.S. Green Darkness is listed in my library under 'Young Adult', is it supposed to be for teenagers, or is it just a mistake?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 12, 2005, 02:27:04 PM
Did you guys know that in Seton's "Katherine" there is a forward by... Philippa Gregory - AAAHHH!  :o  


(http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/7011/katherine8cm.jpg)


Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on November 12, 2005, 03:23:20 PM
Quote
I just added two of the Seton books to my library request list, I hope I can get through the others I plan on reading soon... Thanks Elisabeth and PL for the recommendations!

P.S. Green Darkness is listed in my library under 'Young Adult', is it supposed to be for teenagers, or is it just a mistake?


Well, it's true that I myself first read Green Darkness as a teenager, but now, two decades later, I can honestly say I found it just as enjoyable the second time around. Maybe part of this pleasure is due to nostalgia, who knows, but I think Seton's historical research and her storytelling gift speak for themselves... IMO if you can get around the kind of "juvenile" narrative "frame" of Green Darkness (the 1960s characters and setting that begin and end the book, and the whole reincarnation theme, which I admit I actually liked), then the bulk of the book, set in Tudor times, is intensely pleasurable... I just can't think of another author who so ably knits together the historical and fictional. Most of the settings in this book are actual places that you can visit, including Ightham Mote, the castle where the skeleton of a "walled up girl" was found in the 1870s. This story provided the inspiration to Seton for Green Darkness, a tale of forbidden love and its fatal consequences.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 12, 2005, 03:33:53 PM
BTW, has anyone heard of a book 'A Bloody Field at Shrewsbury' or something like that? I can't remember the author, but I think it is about Henry V and Sir Henry 'Hotspur' Percy. Anyone read it?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 12, 2005, 03:34:59 PM
Oh Elisabeth, what a joy to discuss books. I loved Green Darkness and also give her "Avalon" a try, it is wonderful. Also on your wishlist must go Barbara Erskine's "Child of the Phoenix", I couldn't put it down. Neither of these are Tudor/Plantagenet history but both are superb.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 12, 2005, 03:43:14 PM
Well, Child of the Phoenix is sort of Plantagenet history. I'm reading it at the moment (bought it at Kim's insistence  ;)) and I'm loving it! :)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on November 12, 2005, 03:43:27 PM
Oh, Kim, what a pleasure to meet another fan of Green Darkness! I was beginning to think I was alone in appreciating this book... I guess I have a strong sentimental attachment to it.

And many thanks for all the recommendations. I didn't know about Avalon and will definitely try to find it. I want to read everything by Seton now... the only other book I've located by her is set in Stuart times and is called Devil Water, but I haven't started it yet (still busy devouring Katherine!).  
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: elena_maria_vidal on November 13, 2005, 08:14:52 PM
Right now, I am watching the new BBC"The Virgin Queen" with Ann-Marie Duff. She is good and looks the part. However, I am not really liking the show. But I am only 15 minutes into it. I would appreciate some feedback if any of you Tudor experts happen to see it....
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 19, 2005, 01:40:53 PM
This one applies especially to my friend Helen A..... hey on BBC Radio 5 next thursday, the divine Ms. Gregory is discussing her "noo bess sella" The Constant Princess. I will be sure and listen to what the lady has to say ;)  (3pm onwards GMT)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on November 22, 2005, 03:28:01 PM
Dear Kim, I hope you and Helen will tune us in to the interview on BBC Radio with Ms. Gregory... I want to hear all about it, especially since it appears to be scheduled for Thanksgiving Day here in the US (a day of overeating, overindulgence and ultimately major boredom, unless you like football, IMO).

Just to keep you posted on my Anya Seton craze, currently I am reading her book "The Winthrop Woman," which is not admittedly about Tudor times but constantly harkens back to them (the good old days, when you could dance and sing and bring in the May to your heart's content, that sort of thing, before the dreary Puritans took hold). The heroine, Elizabeth Fones Winthrop, is, as always with Seton's heroines, superlatively beautiful, not a dreary Puritan although she does her best. She is obviously meant to leave Charles I's increasingly repressive England and emigrate to the New World, that is, New England - no doubt to find greater scope for her beauty and sex appeal if not her religious principles - only I haven't got so far in the book yet. It's rather long. Has anyone else here read it? Yeah, in case you haven't guessed I'm totally hooked on Anya Seton at the moment. Can't find "Avalon" anywhere but will keep looking... as a matter of principle! LOL and thanks again for all the recommendations. ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 22, 2005, 04:28:38 PM
Elisabeth, I would be more than happy to send you a copy of Avalon if you cannot find it...seriously ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Elisabeth on November 23, 2005, 11:38:02 AM
Hi, Kim, many thanks for your kind offer.  :) But of course the minute I said I couldn't find "Avalon" I found it through an interlibrary loan search. I think all of Anya Seton's novels are on file, and this despite the fact that she was quite prolific. So whenever I finish "The Winthrop Woman" (which gets better and better the more I get into it), I will move on - or is it back (??) - to what sounds like Arthurian times... Courtesy of Ms. Seton and you!  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 23, 2005, 12:53:06 PM
Oh its way back to King Edgar the peaceable, vikings,Leif Erikkson  and so forth. Its wonderful ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 27, 2005, 05:36:40 PM
Hey guys, I just finished the Layesmith book 'The Last Four Medieval Queens'.

I'll give my opinion, but of course speak only for myself. By the end of the book, I felt cheated. What had great potential ended up being a dismal effort, IMO. Firstly, when Laynesmith quotes primary sources, she doesn't translate them - so we hear of the 'Quene' and her husband the 'kynge'. Of course, this is just one of my personal pet hates, others might not mind - indeed, some like it. But it irked me.

Secondly, every single source she mentions in backed up in a footnote. So pages are filled with endless footnotes that could have easily been noted at the end of the book, as in many other books.

Though explanations of how the 'Quene' was perceived at the time were at first interesting, they soon lost allure, especially when all they consisted of was Laynesmith repeatedly pointing out comparisons between the 'Quene' and the Virgin Mary.

Other chapters like the second half of 'Queens as Mothers' and 'The Queens Relatives' were interesting, but hardly enough to make up for the disappointments. Over all, I wasn't impressed.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on November 28, 2005, 03:03:10 PM
Although I have a "shed load" of biogs and reference books, you cannot beat a really well written historical fiction book on a cold winter's evening. Liam has started a topic on King John so I have to recommend Barbera Erskine's "Lady of Hay" which tells of the life of Matilda de Braose and her terrible death at the hands of this ruthless King ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 29, 2005, 01:32:08 AM
Quote
Hey guys, I just finished the Layesmith book 'The Last Four Medieval Queens'.

I'll give my opinion, but of course speak only for myself. By the end of the book, I felt cheated. What had great potential ended up being a dismal effort, IMO. Firstly, when Laynesmith quotes primary sources, she doesn't translate them - so we hear of the 'Quene' and her husband the 'kynge'. Of course, this is just one of my personal pet hates, others might not mind - indeed, some like it. But it irked me.

Secondly, every single source she mentions in backed up in a footnote. So pages are filled with endless footnotes that could have easily been noted at the end of the book, as in many other books.

Though explanations of how the 'Quene' was perceived at the time were at first interesting, they soon lost allure, especially when all they consisted of was Laynesmith repeatedly pointing out comparisons between the 'Quene' and the Virgin Mary.

Other chapters like the second half of 'Queens as Mothers' and 'The Queens Relatives' were interesting, but hardly enough to make up for the disappointments. Over all, I wasn't impressed.


The reason for all the footnotes is that this is academic history, and the writer has to protect herself from attack by other academics who are waiting in the wings like vultures trying to pull the theory apart!

This is also the reason for the aparrent repetition of the main gist of the argument (Queen = Virgin Mary).

It does sound a bit dry, but I'd still like to skim through it at some stage (maybe in a bookshop!). I personally prefer the footnotes at the foot of the page, so I don't have to keep turning back, as I'm always wondering where the author got that information from (or whether they just simply made it up).

The reason why she doesn't translate the original texts is probably the same - it would lead her to accusations of "doctoring the text" by her fellow academics. It is a big  assumption however that her entire readership is familiar with mediaeval English - but then she writing for fellow specialists, and not the general reader.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 29, 2005, 01:33:49 AM
Quote
Although I have a "shed load" of biogs and reference books, you cannot beat a really well written historical fiction book on a cold winter's evening. Liam has started a topic on King John so I have to recommend Barbera Erskine's "Lady of Hay" which tells of the life of Matilda de Braose and her terrible death at the hands of this ruthless King ;)


Not a happy end, then?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 29, 2005, 09:49:10 AM
Quote

The reason for all the footnotes is that this is academic history, and the writer has to protect herself from attack by other academics who are waiting in the wings like vultures trying to pull the theory apart!

This is also the reason for the aparrent repetition of the main gist of the argument (Queen = Virgin Mary).

It does sound a bit dry, but I'd still like to skim through it at some stage (maybe in a bookshop!). I personally prefer the footnotes at the foot of the page, so I don't have to keep turning back, as I'm always wondering where the author got that information from (or whether they just simply made it up).

The reason why she doesn't translate the original texts is probably the same - it would lead her to accusations of "doctoring the text" by her fellow academics. It is a big  assumption however that her entire readership is familiar with mediaeval English - but then she writing for fellow specialists, and not the general reader.


You're probably right, Bell, and as I said, I didn't like it, buy others might.  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Prince_Lieven on December 15, 2005, 08:05:16 AM
BTW, I just finished Sharon Penman's 'When Christ and His Saints Slept' about the English civil war in the 12th Century. Wonderful stuff, fiction I'd recommend to anyone.  ;)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: palatine on March 19, 2007, 01:14:51 PM
There is a review of The Golden Age, the sequel to Elizabeth, at Harry Knowles’s Aint It Cool News website which was written by someone who got to attend an advance screening.  In the talkback below the review, a few posters used some language that could potentially ruffle the sensibilities of some here.  If you feel that your sensibilities might be ruffled, just read the review and skip the talkback, which doesn't contain any spoilers/news about the movie. 

Here is the link:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31914

Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Helen_Azar on March 19, 2007, 06:52:33 PM
There is a review of The Golden Age, the sequel to Elizabeth, at Harry Knowles’s Aint It Cool News website which was written by someone who got to attend an advance screening.  In the talkback below the review, a few posters used some language that could potentially ruffle the sensibilities of some here.  If you feel that your sensibilities might be ruffled, just read the review and skip the talkback, which doesn't contain any spoilers/news about the movie. 

Here is the link:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31914

Well... the author of this review seems to think that this sequel is pretty good, but then again he/she also thought the original Cate Blanchett version was fab... Enough said... 
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Red Rose on January 24, 2009, 10:59:44 AM
Hi everyone! I'm new to the site, and i just all types of history, but the Tudors, Bourbons, and Romanovs particularly captivate me.  I'm so glad I found this site, where there are other people who share my love of history and discussion.  There is this amazing book i'm reading called, "Divorced, Beheaded, Survived: A feminist Reinterpretation of the Wives of Henry the VIII" that is really good.  Almost all of Alison Weir's books are amazing, especially, "The Children of Henry VIII" in which she included not only Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth, but also, though not his daughter, Lady Jane Grey.  Alison Plowden's "Tudor Women" is also a good read. 
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on March 01, 2009, 02:34:36 AM
Exciting news: The screen rights have been procured from Sharon K Penman's excellent novel "The Sunne in Splendour". A script based on the novel is now going the rounds to locate the finance to make the movie.
Kenneth Branagh has read it and it is said that Al Pacino has said that he would like to portray Richard in a film. Fingers crossed that if it comes to fruition, it stays true to the book and doesn't get an injection of La La Land !!!

The BBC are also looking at the script for a 3 part drama about Richard.....it is hoped that Richard Armitage will feature as Richard. (I have posted his pic elsewhere.)

Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Vecchiolarry on March 01, 2009, 11:57:07 AM
Hi,

I think Al Pacino is now too old to play Richard III.
And please, let's get a British actor to play him.  There aren't many good American actors anymore...

Larry
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on March 01, 2009, 12:38:42 PM
Absolutely agree with you.
Also on the wishlist would be NOT Scarlett J, Natalie P OR the ghastly Keira (Poutly) Knightly :-)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: jehan on March 01, 2009, 01:07:14 PM
Hi,

I think Al Pacino is now too old to play Richard III.
And please, let's get a British actor to play him.  There aren't many good American actors anymore...

Larry

I don't agree that there aren't many good American actors, but much I like Al Pacino, I agree he's too old.  Richard was 32 when he died-  Pacino is nearly 70.  I think a relatively unknown Brit would be the best.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Vecchiolarry on March 01, 2009, 06:31:41 PM
Hi,

I was thinking along the lines of Clive Owen.  I don't know how old he is (and he does look a little gnarled around the edges);  but considering the very tough times Richard III lived in, he may very well have looked older than 32......
Perhaps Emily Blunt could play Anne Neville.  She may not want to though as she has just finished Victoria...

Larry
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: alixaannencova on March 01, 2009, 09:26:39 PM
Oh how thrilling about Sunne in Splendour. I adored this book almost as much as 'Katherine' by Anya Seton!


Who could play Dickon.....I agree about Al Pacino being far too long in the tooth (think sabre toothed tiger and you'll see my idea of how long!!!) and Clive Owen may be getting on a bit too....same goes for Rupert Graves....he may have been good once, but then he was a tad too 'pretty' really to have played Richard! i thought, it is implied, if my memory serves me right, that Richard is a dark haired adonis more than equal to Brother Ned in the book!

If it is done properly the actor should be British and able to play a youthful Richard onwards with maybe a child actor for the earlier bits, if they are included in an adapted screenplay obviously!

I think Ben Whishaw would make an awfully good Richard and then again what about Rafi Gavron....he may be a tad young though! Tom Sturridge is another option, but then he was positively 'MDF' in the otherwise sublime 'Being Julia.' Perhaps his acting skills have matured since then. I just remember being rather struck by him for some reason and I sure it was not just his questionable acting at that time!
As for Anne, goodness me the candidates are endless...I shall mull this over.


Ooooh and who would we cast as the frightful Edouard? Now that would be fun, and Clarence come to that...lovely but nonetheless 'evil' looking young villains and as for Margaret of Anjou! Oh what fun! Can't wait...just hope it doesn't get put on the back burner for too long!
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 08, 2016, 12:58:02 PM
Tudor movies on youtube:
The private Life of Henry VIII
Anne of 1000 Days
Fire Over England
The Virgin Queen 1955 and a miniseries of the same name

They also have Gunpowder treason and Plot Mary Queen of scots
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on October 10, 2016, 01:25:37 PM
Oh I just love The Private Life of Henry VIII ! I know its a load of old toot but Merle Oberon is breathtaking as Anne Boleyn.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Lochlanach on December 09, 2016, 06:06:23 AM
For UK viewers there is a new BBC series on right now , 'Six Wives with Lucy Worsley' about Henry VIII's spouses obviously. It is shot in an unusual manner - Worsley dressing up (plus ca change) in period clothing and witnessing the action as a bystander (a maid) whilst narrating the events in front of her , and even 'acting' on occasion. Depending on your viewpoint ; this is either an interesting and innovative approach to history , or plumbing new depths of self indulgence and gimmickry . I can't decide which. Still , it's a story that never ceases to fascinate.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on December 10, 2016, 11:06:33 AM
I watched it and enjoyed it. If it introduces people to history long may it continue.
Meanwhile, on BBC4 there is a 3 parter on the Hapsburgs by Simon Seabag Montifiore ( what is it with that name!!!). That is worth a watch too.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: rosieposie on February 27, 2017, 06:15:17 AM
Horrible Histories TV show did a song parody of Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights and it was about Mary Tudor.   It is rather amusing and a details about Mary.    Please remember Horrible Histories is an educational show for children, teenagers.    It is teaching history in a fun way with skits, songs and parodies of mixing modern TV shows with historical characters and events. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCIMmpETaA
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on July 09, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
There is a book "Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe unlock'd" Janet Arnold that is the book from what I understand on Queen Elizabeth I's clothes.
Title: ELIZABETH: THE FORGOTTEN YEARS by John Guy
Post by: Louis_Charles on August 16, 2018, 03:51:53 PM
   Excellent for what it is, not quite so for what Guy intended it to be. His aim was to portray Elizabeth with fresh insights that changed more traditional ways of looking at her, particularly the way she has been represented in popular culture. It is undeniably true that movies like Elizabeth and Essex, The Virgin Queen, Elizabeth and Elizabeth: The Golden Age have permanently shaped the way that Elizabeth I has been viewed (by the public at least), although somewhat oddly Guy focuses upon Fire Over England. He also mentions Glenda Jackson's towering performance in Elizabeth R. All of these represented the hagiography that grew up around her thanks to historians like Neale, although the elements of the legend were cemented within thirty years of her death by Camden's Annales.

I am not sure Guy has presented enough evidence to contradict the hagiography. If anything, his work reinforces the estimation in which Elizabeth can be held as a ruler, if not as a personality. She was essentially interested in two things, foreign policy and the Church. Guy is persuasive in debunking her fabled "marriage" to her average subjects as something that existed on anything but a theoretical level. The 1590s were excruciating in terms of harvests, and Elizabeth did nothing to alleviate the sufferings endured by commoners. Indeed, her taxation increased at the same time prices rose. Her view was strictly hierarchical, with herself at the top of the heap. This also caused her to be antipathetic to Puritans (not enough deference), Roman Catholics (ditto, with the allegiance to the Pope thrown in) and any attempt by ordinary citizens to limit the power of the Queen in terms of such things as granting ruinous monopolies to courtiers. However, in his epilogue, Guy admits that she was successful in (mostly) keeping England out of ruinous war. It is unpleasant, but not news, to read of her ingratitude to her soldiers and sailors after the Armada and sorties into France and Holland. Guy drily records again and again that the Queen did not stint herself on any significant level. At the very end of the book he uses Ralegh's phrase "she was a lady surprised by time" as a coda, then adds his explanation --- she ruled at a time when her concept of her authority's base had begun to be questioned. But surely most of her reign passed before this arose? It probably did gall Elizabeth Tudor that some of the hotheads who surrounded her --- Essex and Ralegh most prominently --- failed to take her seriously as a military leader because of course she could not take the field. Again, Guy gives numerous examples of the advice with which she peppered them, most of which they ignored. Guy has to admit that the majority of it was sound. Only a lunatic could have maintained that the English should have attempted to take and hold a coastal Spanish city as a port from which further attacks could have been launched. It is to Elizabeth's credit that she refused to play the role as arbiter of the Reformation and Keeper of the Military Flame for Protestants. She would have bankrupted England, as Philip II did Spain on the other side.

So Elizabeth pretty much stays the same figure. None of the material Guy has uncovered (to his credit) seriously alters her status as incredibly good at her job.

What The Forgotten Years does accomplish is provide a good look at the period of the reign most often ignored. Guy uses the end of her menstrual cycle as a liberating moment; she was no longer hostage to her council's insistence that she marry (although he fails to really confront the fact that she had ignored it when she might have had children) and could begin to really rule as herself. It would probably be more correct to date this from the execution of Mary Stuart and the following year's defeat of the Armada, when her personal stock was riding high. Guy relentlessly chronicles how stressful the last full decade of the reign was, with it effectively ending with the fall of Essex.

The writing is excellent, and the book is a pleasure to read. Recommended for anyone with an interest in her or the general period. (less)
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on December 26, 2018, 05:38:31 PM
There is a movie in the works "The Spanish princess" on Catherine of Aragon
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: TimM on July 05, 2019, 11:06:35 AM
When does it come out?
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: Kimberly on July 25, 2019, 02:21:28 AM
It's out and it's the usual cr*p, just like The White Queen and The White Princess.
Title: Re: Books/Movies on the Tudors and Plantagenets
Post by: CeridwenLynne on December 01, 2019, 01:20:11 PM
I have been reading Allison Weir's series on Henry VIII's wives.  They are fiction but they are well written and an overall good read. So far there are books on Catherine Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, and Anne of Cleves.