Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: dianoshka on August 10, 2005, 08:18:51 PM

Title: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: dianoshka on August 10, 2005, 08:18:51 PM
Olga was 22 when she was killed. We all know that.

The possible match between her and Prince Carol of Romania didn't go through. That was in 1914. She was 19.

I've been wondering something. When were the grand duchesses expected to stop living with their parents? When they got married? When they wanted to?

If anyone knows anything relating to the matter, I'd highly appreciate it if you could post it.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ortino on August 10, 2005, 09:16:20 PM
I think that most left their parents when they married, since it wasn't really proper for them to live on their own without a male escort. In earlier times, the youngest girl might stay with her mother for the rest of her life to attend to her "needs", but I don't know how popular this idea remained by OTMA's youth. I imagine that the majority left their parents upon marriage.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Georgiy on August 11, 2005, 05:07:46 PM
Without the War intervening, Olga could well have been in a position to get married sometime between 1914 and 1918. The war put a halt to so much that was taken for granted and normal, and she was so busy nursing, and her mother too busy with her own worries and work, no one probably had much time to give marriage a thought. They proabbaly thought when the war is finished would be an appropriate time to start looking.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 11, 2005, 06:16:11 PM
Quote
Without the War intervening, Olga could well have been in a position to get married sometime between 1914 and 1918. The war put a halt to so much that was taken for granted and normal, and she was so busy nursing, and her mother too busy with her own worries and work, no one probably had much time to give marriage a thought. They proabbaly thought when the war is finished would be an appropriate time to start looking.


i agree. if olga did marry i think she would marry a soldger.

if the war hadn't started i'm shure she would have looked a bit harder. and would she become a nurse if the war hadn't started?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ortino on August 11, 2005, 06:44:55 PM
Quote

i agree. if olga did marry i think she would marry a soldger.

if the war hadn't started i'm shure she would have looked a bit harder. and would she become a nurse if the war hadn't started?


Olga couldn't marry a soldier unless she wanted him to not be accepted into her family and for her to renounce her name. As in the cases of Olga Alexandrovna and Michael Alexandrovich, marrying commoners didn't work out too well. Both their spouses were generally rejected for their non-royal blood.

Well, what use would there be for a nurse if there wasn't a war?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: rosebud on August 15, 2005, 02:17:46 PM
I have always been horrified about the fact that in the 1800 century young princesses were in their teens when they got married and started to give birth to their children. And what I have understood teens were more naiive and physically longer like children as nowadays. So they were pulled out of kindergarden and pushed to the marital bed.
Quite disturbing.
Attitudes changed, In OTMAs case and in the 20th century things were quite different, their parents wanted them to stay with them as long as it was possible. And live their childhood and youth as children and youngsters.
R
Title: Re: Question
Post by: matushka on August 27, 2005, 02:22:02 PM
At the war`s time, at least 2 people ask Alexandra Feodorovna about the possibility of marrying Olga. First Boris Vladimirovich, as we know from the later of the Empress to her husband. She explained the reasons she did not wanted that marriage. Second, prince Constantin Constantinovich (one of the son of KR, killed in Alapaevsk). But I have no details about this case, do not know the reasons of refuse. Does anyone know something?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Lanie on August 27, 2005, 02:25:39 PM
I never heard about Prince Konstantin Konstantinovich wanting to marry Olga N!   Where did you read this, matushka?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: matushka on August 28, 2005, 03:08:42 PM
From the diary of Valentina Ivanovna, mostly.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: matushka on August 29, 2005, 02:55:00 PM
In fact, I do not know is that just a rumor or not.  Chebotareva relate a lot of rumors in her diary. About prince Konstantin and Olga, I read different entries. One citation in russian, as you can use a translator: "v lazarete Mavrikevna razotkrovenichilas, chto oseniu Konst. Konst. usilenno uhazhival. Olga emu seriozno nravilas, no cherez Narychkinu "nam dali poniat, shto on slichkom molod..."".
So, I am asking all of you, is there any serious information.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nerdycool on August 31, 2005, 01:58:57 AM
If there is, it's most likely hidden away in an archive somewhere. If that kind of information was easily accessable, surely one of the many Romanov researchers/authors would have uncovered it by now.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Nemos on February 28, 2009, 06:47:01 AM
http://pushkin-history.info/component/option,com_datsogallery/Itemid,143/func,detail/catid,58/id,6463/

Знак Ольгинских гусар. Есть другие знаки полков с инициалами Царских особ России?
Sign Olginskij Hussar. There are other signs of regiments from the initials of persons Holy Russia?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: jehan on February 28, 2009, 01:52:10 PM
Quote

i agree. if olga did marry i think she would marry a soldger.

if the war hadn't started i'm shure she would have looked a bit harder. and would she become a nurse if the war hadn't started?

Olga couldn't marry a soldier unless she wanted him to not be accepted into her family and for her to renounce her name. As in the cases of Olga Alexandrovna and Michael Alexandrovich, marrying commoners didn't work out too well. Both their spouses were generally rejected for their non-royal blood.

 Well, what use would there be for a nurse if there wasn't a war?

Okay, it's 3 1/2 years on since the OP, but -

Marrying a commoner, especially in Olga A's case worked out VERY well for her- she had a happy marriage that lasted over 40 years and she had the children she wanted.  Michael's marriage was happy too.  Surely being rejected for lack of royal blood is far less important then personal happiness in marriage?  Olga's first marriage was "equal", but she was miserable.  Michael's case was a little different, as he was heir for a time, close to the throne, and perhaps should have had more regard for duty, but in the end it didn't matter much.  And I'm sure neither one ever regretted their marriages.

You are right about the nursing- it was part of their war work and service to the country.  I don't think any of them had a calling to be nurse had there not been a war.  And in other circumstances it would have been frowned upon.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: violetta on February 28, 2009, 04:18:48 PM
I read Alexandra Fedorovna`s opinion on the possible future marriages of her daughters. It was in 1912 or 1913. She was talking to the minister of foreign affairs Sergey Sazonov (1910-1916), as far as I remember they were in Livadiya. In fact, Sazonov wrote about this conversation in his memories. AF said the following thing:" I1m dreaded to think about the times when we will have to part with our daugters. my cherished dream is that could stay in Russia after their marriage, but I have 4 daughters so it is impossible, in all probability. You know, marriages in royal houses are so difficult. I have first-hand experience in this field although I`ve never been in my daughters` position. As a daughter of the Grand Duke of Hesse, I was not subjected to a risk of a dynastic marriage....hence, my duty is to give my daughters the right to marry people for whom they have feelings. The Tzar`s task is to decide if this marriage is appropriate for his daughters. Parents shouldn`t do anything beyond this...God granted me such great family happiness that I didn`t dare to  dream of". 
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on February 28, 2009, 05:08:42 PM
Thanks for this violetta! Are those memoirs available on the AP site?
It's nice to hear from Alix that it's not necessary for her daughters to marry noble ones. She solely wants them to marry for love.
She really knows how and what her children would feel whenever she and Nicky announces each daughter must marry a royalty.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on February 28, 2009, 05:33:55 PM
It's possible the girls could have married anyone they wanted, as Michael and Olga A. did. However, without Nicholas's permission, they probably would have been shunned by the family and court.

And a little request, too. Could we put better titles on the threads? Instead of just "Question" it could be "Olga's marriage thoughts" or something. It really helps with searching for threads. :)
Title: Re: Question
Post by: violetta on February 28, 2009, 06:13:33 PM
As for Sazonov`s mempries,they `re not available on AP site. The ones that I found at University Library in Lodz(Poland) were published at the end of the 1920-s in Berlin in Russian but they were also translated into English.I`ll check the title. These memories deal primarily with the years preceding WWI and deveopments during WWI altough it contains some info on the Imperial Family.
Secondly, I do not think that AF was able to accept any candidate for the heart and hand of their daughters e.g. neither AF nor Mariya Fedorovna agreed to see countess Brassova, Misha`s son. I think she would have been able to accept someone from their circle. Tatyana Konstantinovna married a Georgian aristocrat (I forrgot his name), she had to renounce her right to the throne (though she was remote from the throne). maybe AF was thinking about a possible option.
Thirdly, as we know Olga and Carol of Romania did not take to each other but the 2 families decided that the Romanian family would come to Livadiya in august or september , and young people would get to know each other more but on 01.08.1914 the war began. in 1916 the 2 families resumed their talks on the possible union between the 2 houses, but it this case they were taking ab. Mariya because Carol did like her more than Olga. they started to discuss a possibility of this union but the 2nd half of 1916 was marked by politica struggle, unrest etc. so the marriage issue was not the most important
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nena on February 28, 2009, 06:18:45 PM
Olga got chance to marry in April of 1916, too, to King (Then Prince, regent) Alexander of Serbia.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: violetta on February 28, 2009, 06:32:14 PM
could you please tell why this marriage did not come though. why  did not she marry him? was it a love match or a dynastic one? who came up with this proposal? if these two had married olga would have survived. could you give some details on the engagement? more details in general?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nena on February 28, 2009, 06:40:38 PM
Serbian goverment and delegation on head with Nikola Pashic visited NII in April of 1916.  Had conversation with Emperor, and I doubt Olga knew for that converstaion. Even if she knew, she was quite, possible, or Nicholas didn't tell to her. Or even Pashich planned to give proposition, but I read his lines about that, that it would be nice if Olga became Serbian Queen. Also, Helena (Alexander's sister) was married to Ioann Konstantinovich, and called for Alexander to visit Russia, while Olga was nurse in hospital. Rest are rumors....

More later....
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ferah on March 01, 2009, 12:01:34 AM
I think I may have also heard something about a marriage proposal between Olga and Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia, and also with Prince Christopher of Greece. I do not know too much about it. Could anyone else shed some more light on it?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 01, 2009, 12:31:54 AM
This where discussed before on the Suitors thread here. I saw one photo of an article there that Carol and Olga are engaged.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Tina Laroche on March 01, 2009, 02:41:58 AM
This where discussed before on the Suitors thread here. I saw one photo of an article there that Carol and Olga are engaged.

Engaged? I thought after Olga visited Romania to meet Carol, their marriage was no longer considered to happen. :-\ Were they really engaged?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ferah on March 01, 2009, 03:48:50 AM
No. It was considered to be a good match by some, and Carol and Olga met each other. But it never grew into anything more than just something that was thought to be a royal match by others.
Here's the thread:
Olga's Possible Marriage to Carol of Romania (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2750.0)


Title: Re: Question
Post by: nena on March 01, 2009, 08:50:59 AM
Yes. Gilliard's memories are detailed about that 1914 visit to Konstantsa/Romania.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 01, 2009, 09:05:37 AM
 here it is (http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq126/olga_maria1993/summer1913.jpg?t=1235920330)

Title: Re: Question
Post by: nena on March 01, 2009, 09:10:43 AM
Nice photo -- Romanian couple and Carol..and Olga N.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 01, 2009, 09:16:01 AM
Oh, I'm still learning how to do that hyperlinking system. Yes it's a nice photo.
The question is why did the news jump to that topic although the conjecture was not true.
Carol Of Romania (http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq126/olga_maria1993/Carol.jpg?t=1235920887)
Title: Re: Question
Post by: violetta on March 01, 2009, 01:43:36 PM
I guess we jump from one topic to another, we sometimes ask and discuss questions discussed on other threads.yes, it`s truebut it`s like an ordinary conversation when we change topics, drop topics, talk about staff loosey or closely connected with the topic.you never know where your conversation is going to come...
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 02, 2009, 02:30:02 AM
here it is (http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq126/olga_maria1993/summer1913.jpg?t=1235920330)


Oh, that's not what I meant,violetta. Hihihihi.
I'm referring to the news of "presumed engagement" of Olga and Carol on this news article.
GaranduchessElla posted that on Olga's Suitors thread somewhere here.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 02, 2009, 10:14:36 AM
Just looked at Alexander of Serbia and he indeed looks not appealing.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 02, 2009, 11:39:56 AM
Well, Pavel Voronov was Olga´s great favourite and wasn´t appealing neither. I guess the girls were looking more into one´s character.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ferah on March 02, 2009, 10:54:49 PM
Well, Pavel Voronov was Olga´s great favourite and wasn´t appealing neither. I guess the girls were looking more into one´s character.

I agree. Pavel Voronov (whom Olga was in love with in 1913) and Dmitri Chakh-Baghov weren't particularly very attractive. But Olga was a very introspective girl and I'm sure she would have admired one's personality and character more than their physical appearance.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 03, 2009, 04:21:27 AM
Yes, I like people like her who don't care for appearance of the one they feel something special for (absolutely like me).
 
Title: Re: Question
Post by: violetta on March 03, 2009, 05:59:55 AM
Besides, 100 years ago people had  totally different beauty canons. In the 2nd half of the 19th century men wore beards, the real ones, bushy ones, and it was accepted as an integral part of male appearence.I don`t think that nowadays a girl (at least, most of girls) would be delighted to have such a partner. Bushy beards are grown by actors for a particular role. Men at the beginning of the 20th centur had moustache. These men were described as handsome and attractive.Actually, every officer, as a rule, had moustache. It was a part of the male image.It is different nowadays. I know few men in their 30s, let alone 20s, having moustache.may be the ones in their  50s, but moustache is no longer in fashion. actually, people perceived each other`s looks differently, and we cannot probably understand them
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 06, 2009, 09:18:59 PM
Since the Thread's title does not specify anything, I think this is the place where I ought to post my questions.
I've read Olga got a revolver from her father and that was surrendered to Kobylinsky the time they were to go to Yekaterinburg.
However, how did Kobylinsky know she's got that? Gossiper Sentries? I think Olga was so careful in not saying a word about that gun.
Or, was someone from the guards able to see Olga put that right on her boot?

If anyone has the book "The Private World of the Last Tsar" by Paul and Beatrice von Grabbe and turns to page 61 there is a photo of Olga in Mogilev, and she appears to be carrying a gun.

If anyone else cares to take a look, let me know what you think. I could be mistaken, but that's what it looks like to me.

Alia

To anybody who owns this book, would you mind scanning the photo specified for the ones not able to see it?
Thanks in advance.

They had toy guns, and during the war, the Empress complained in a letter to the tsar about how noisy the children and their guns were. However, after the revolution, I imagine Olga would have had a real gun, if the story of her being armed is true.
Anybody who has the letter described in this post? Thanks again in advance.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Tina Laroche on March 07, 2009, 06:38:19 AM
That's a good question. Unfortunately I don't know the answer, but maybe (since Colonel Kobylynsky was their sympathetic jailer, right?) it wasn't kept in such a grave secret, and so he knew about it, but he had to make Olga surrender the weapon when they were moving... That's just a guess. I'm sure somebody else has the right answer.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nena on March 07, 2009, 08:50:03 AM
Would love to see that photo of Olga with gun at Mogilev too.

Read stories about many 'guns' held by IF during exile at Tobolsk, and at Ekaterinburg. Why not? For safety.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Sarushka on March 07, 2009, 09:03:55 AM
If anyone has the book "The Private World of the Last Tsar" by Paul and Beatrice von Grabbe and turns to page 61 there is a photo of Olga in Mogilev, and she appears to be carrying a gun.

If anyone else cares to take a look, let me know what you think. I could be mistaken, but that's what it looks like to me.

Alia

To anybody who owns this book, would you mind scanning the photo specified for the ones not able to see it?
Thanks in advance.


I think this was the photo. It's actually just a small purse in Olga's lap:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Olga/th_olgadnieper1916.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Olga/?action=view&current=olgadnieper1916.jpg)
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Sarushka on March 07, 2009, 09:08:46 AM
That's a good question. Unfortunately I don't know the answer, but maybe (since Colonel Kobylynsky was their sympathetic jailer, right?) it wasn't kept in such a grave secret, and so he knew about it, but he had to make Olga surrender the weapon when they were moving... That's just a guess. I'm sure somebody else has the right answer.

My best guess is that Nicholas confided to Kobylinsky about Olga's gun. But it's all just guesswork, because to my knowledge, there is currently no published evidence regarding Olga's gun. Bob Atchison got the information verbally from Vladimir Soloviev. Here's his original post about it:

Once when I met Vladimir Soloviev, the Attorney General of Russia and the head of the committee on the investigation of the remains he showed me the Sokolov dossier that Stalin had - I have mentioned that meeting before.  Afterwards we had a long talk about what he had found in his research through unpublished materials.  I asked him if he could tell me somethings he had learned about the members of the family that surprized him.  One thing he told me was the story of the small gun Olga carried.  He said, if I remember correctly but this could be wrong, she had it in her boot and she had been given the gun by her father.  He said Koblynski begged Olga to give it to him in Tobolsk.  Later I found this in writing - but I haven't been able to relocate it.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nena on March 07, 2009, 09:52:21 AM
I see arm of one cadet -- Vasya Agayev or Zehnya Makarov. It was taken in July of 1916, or even early August. 
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Tina Laroche on March 07, 2009, 10:02:53 AM
My best guess is that Nicholas confided to Kobylinsky about Olga's gun. But it's all just guesswork, because to my knowledge, there is currently no published evidence regarding Olga's gun. Bob Atchison got the information verbally from Vladimir Soloviev. Here's his original post about it:

Once when I met Vladimir Soloviev, the Attorney General of Russia and the head of the committee on the investigation of the remains he showed me the Sokolov dossier that Stalin had - I have mentioned that meeting before.  Afterwards we had a long talk about what he had found in his research through unpublished materials.  I asked him if he could tell me somethings he had learned about the members of the family that surprized him.  One thing he told me was the story of the small gun Olga carried.  He said, if I remember correctly but this could be wrong, she had it in her boot and she had been given the gun by her father.  He said Koblynski begged Olga to give it to him in Tobolsk.  Later I found this in writing - but I haven't been able to relocate it.

Thanks for quoting him, Sarushka. :) I've heard this too - that Kobylynsky pleaded Olga to surrender the gun...
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 07, 2009, 02:56:23 PM


My best guess is that Nicholas confided to Kobylinsky about Olga's gun. But it's all just guesswork, because to my knowledge, there is currently no published evidence regarding Olga's gun. Bob Atchison got the information verbally from Vladimir Soloviev. Here's his original post about it:

Thanks for quoting this one! Wink
Did Nicholas really? If your conjecture is true, Sarah,maybe Nicholas did it because he trusted Kobylinsky.
I guess it was a slip of tongue for Nicholas in one of his conversations with Kobylinsky. Anyway, that's my guess.

Title: Re: Question
Post by: Tina Laroche on March 07, 2009, 04:15:21 PM
Well, personally I don't know if the IF really trusted Kobylynsky, but he was certainly friendly. At least friendlier than Yurovsky, I believe...
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Sarushka on March 07, 2009, 05:00:48 PM
I absolutely believe Nicholas trusted Kobylinsky. In his statement in Robert Wilton's Last Days of the Romanovs, Kobylinsky recalls how when he tried to resign from his duties in Tobolsk because of the strain on his nerves, Nicholas put his arm around Kobylinsky's shoulder and said to him, "I beg of you to remain, Evgenii Stepanovich, for my sake, for the sake of my wife, and for the sake of my children. You must stand it. You must see that all of us are suffering." They embraced and kissed, and Kobylinsky "resolved to remain."
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 07, 2009, 06:56:08 PM
From that, I can see how well Kobylinsky had his relationship to the imperial family. It's just sad that he was replaced by Yakovlev on the last days in Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Tina Laroche on March 08, 2009, 01:28:30 AM
Yes, that's true. :(
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 08, 2009, 03:49:03 AM
From that, I can see how well Kobylinsky had his relationship to the imperial family. It's just sad that he was replaced by Yakovlev on the last days in Tobolsk.
Oh it's not Yakovlev. It must be Rodionov and Khoriakhov.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Tina Laroche on March 08, 2009, 04:14:56 AM
Anyway. Kobylynsky was friendly to the IF, more than some of the others...
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 09, 2009, 04:58:51 AM
Who were Olga's ladies-in-waiting (if there were)?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 09, 2009, 05:03:44 AM
I don´t know of any. I believe S. Buxhoeveden wrote she spent a grea deal of time with tow eldest Grand Duchesses, because they had no lady-in-waiting of their own, while Maria and Anastasia were still entrusted to Ekaterina Schneider.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 09, 2009, 05:09:18 AM
I've read somewhere that the Big pair has ladies-in-waiting while the little pair did not have.
Title: Re: Question
Post by: violetta on March 09, 2009, 07:21:50 AM
A strange coincidence connected with Kolylinskiy. I live in Lodz, Poland. In November -December 1914 there took place one of the biggest and most serious operations of WW1. About 600 000 Rusian and German military men participated in it. The Germans wanted to undermine the power of the Russian Army and force it to withdraw Then they could act on th e Western front. The Russians planned to make the direct way to Berlin in the vicinity of Lodz. Neither succeeded. more than 100 000 Russian soldiers died and were buried on military cemetaries.   Colonel Kobylinskiy participated in this operation and was seriously wounded... 
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Olga Maria on March 18, 2009, 02:29:24 AM
It's just so surprising to find out that Prince Edward of Wales (predestined to be King Edward VIII) met Olga in this gathering! (http://images.npg.org.uk:8080/OCimg/790_500/6/1/mw131461.jpg)
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 18, 2009, 03:29:14 AM
It would be surprising if he was not present to meet Imperial family :)
Title: Re: Question
Post by: nena on March 18, 2009, 03:52:12 PM
It was taken in 1908, right? There are more photos from same day. I agree with both.
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on April 11, 2009, 03:50:24 PM
But why here we are speaking only for Olga?Was Tatiana too young for marrying?Or the war began and nobody thought of that?
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: Sarushka on April 11, 2009, 04:31:45 PM
This thread originally started in the Olga forum, so it's mostly about her. ;-)
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on April 12, 2009, 12:09:09 PM
Ah you have right Sarushka...but with risk to get off topic i have same question.... Was Tatiana prepared for marring?
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: nena on April 12, 2009, 01:23:20 PM
I have never heard such a story for Tatiana. Maybe, since she was older one, but wasn't sure to whom.
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: rosieposie on April 12, 2009, 11:36:05 PM
I believe the average age of marriage was 14 and up for most common folks.    However with upper class it might have been possible to be 16 and older.  After all Olga, Tatiana and Maria would have been presented to society as ladies once they hit 16.
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: Tina Laroche on April 13, 2009, 04:37:31 AM
I believe the average age of marriage was 14 and up for most common folks.    However with upper class it might have been possible to be 16 and older.  After all Olga, Tatiana and Maria would have been presented to society as ladies once they hit 16.

Well, remember, Nicholas once rebuffed a marriage proposal for Maria when she was sixteen, saying that she was just a schoolgirl. I'm not sure about the common people, but I believe in Nicholas' time girls were already marrying when they were older than 14. Maybe in the previous centuries, but not really in the 1910s...
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: nena on April 13, 2009, 10:44:08 AM
I've always though it was after 16, they were 'mature' then, but often not psychically. Only heard OM stories wedding. Maybe Maria looked older that Tatiana then.
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 13, 2009, 10:57:31 AM
Maria´s wedding story was such that simply Prince Carol liked her best of her sisters. He didn´t care much if she was the saceond or third daughter. She was 16 when he asked for her hand - so practically she was an adult, but Nicolas didn´t accept the proposal saying she was "just a school-girl".
Title: Re: When were OTMA expected to marry/move out?
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on April 13, 2009, 11:11:28 AM
Ally said it pretty good.....Share her opinion....After all to me the girls at less had to have 17 18 to marry...in my opinion .... Irina Alexandrovna married at age 19.....So it may be just early for them to marry 16....i know they start wearing their hair up and everything but inside you are not enough older for such big step....
Title: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: rosieposie on October 24, 2013, 09:13:06 AM
I didn't know where to put this either here or having fun.

My question is besides the Romanian royals, what other matches did Nicholas and Alexandra consider for OTMAA in regards to other European royals?
Title: Re: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: grandduchessella on October 24, 2013, 04:55:53 PM
I don't think any. By the time that Olga and Tatiana were of age, WW1 was upon them. Olga was the only one--with Prince Carol--who got close to an actual match. Apparently Miechen made an overture towards the royal couple regarding a match between her son Boris and Olga. That was shot down quickly. There were stories in the papers though about the following matches:

Olga--Prince Carol, Prince Alexander of Serbia (later Alexander I of Yugoslavia), David of Wales (later Edward VII)
Tatiana--David of Wales , George of Greece (later George I)

I think there were one or two other speculations (such as with GD Dmitri) but nothing that had any real behind it. It was mostly confined to the Orthodox male royals as well--except for David. That was a favorite with the papers because the girls were also descendants of Queen Victoria and so lovely.
Title: Re: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: Olga Maria on October 25, 2013, 01:25:18 AM
That one with GD Dmitri was mentioned in the 'Later Memoirs of Anna Vyrubova' which was different from her known memoirs. Anna said he intended to marry Tatiana but nothing happened.
George I of Greece for Tatiana? It's my first time to know that!
Title: Re: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: grandduchessella on October 25, 2013, 10:53:11 AM
Gah! My typo. It should be George II. LOL George I was dead before those girls were marriageable age.
Title: Re: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: Kassafrass on October 27, 2013, 03:38:42 AM
How serious had they been about the idea of Olga and GD Dmitri?
Title: Re: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: miki_nastya on April 10, 2018, 07:45:09 AM
Maybe it was considered at one point. Dmitri was very close to the Tsar and his family. And I believe if Olga married him she could have stayed in Russia. Take the exemple of her aunt Xenia. As for the others girls my dream matches had always been Tatiana Nikolaevna & Konstantin Konstantinovich, Maria Nikolaevna & Oleg Konstantinovich, Anastasia Nikolaevna & Igor Konstantinovich.  Maybe because KR had so many sons, so the girls could have married a prince and in the same time to stay in Russia with their parents.
Title: Re: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: pers on April 11, 2018, 10:10:22 AM
I watched a series on YouTube on the Scandinavian Royals ("A Royal Family, Episode 1: The Father in law of Europe" etc.) consisting of interviews with members of the various Royal families including Margrethe II.  In it, they mention that the two youngest daughters Maria and Anastasia were considered as possible brides for her father King Frederick IX who was born in 1899.  Unfortunately the events of 1918 put an end to that.
Title: Re: Royal matches for OTMA
Post by: Kalafrana on April 12, 2018, 06:00:02 AM
Frederik IX seems to have been a decent man, so could have been a good match for one of the younger daughters. However, marriageable age for men was higher than for women - typically 25-30 - so such a marriage would not be a serious proposition until well into the 1920s.

In any event, Nicholas does not seem to have visited his Danish cousins much after his marriage, so did the girls actually know Frederik? I'm happy to be corrected on this one, but Nicholas's visits to Denmark seem to have come to an end with his marriage.

Ann