Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Rulers Prior to Nicholas II => Topic started by: umigon on August 19, 2005, 12:27:54 PM

Title: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: umigon on August 19, 2005, 12:27:54 PM
Did Empress Elizabeth (1709-1762) have any illegitimate issue?

Was Yelizaveta Alekseyevna Tarakanova her real daughter??


What do you think?
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: RomanovFan on August 19, 2005, 10:16:56 PM
Are we talking about Empress Elizabeth, daughter of Peter the Great? According to history, Empress Elizabeth didn't have any children. It was her sister Anna Petrovna who gave birth to Peter III before she died.
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: umigon on August 22, 2005, 04:43:48 AM


I refer to Elizabeth, yes, daughter of Peter the Great.


Someone in this forum said that Elizabeth had an illegitimate child at least and then there was this story about Yelizaveta Alekseyevna Tarakanova who claimed to be Elizabeth's daughter by Alexei Razumovsky!
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: RomanovFan on August 22, 2005, 04:00:06 PM
I didn't even know Elizabeth Petrovna had an affair! I mean I know, she of course, had a man at her side that she was intimate with, I'm sure. But I don't think she had any children. Had she had any issue, that child probably would've been the next tsar or tsarina of Russia and she wouldn't have had to bring her nephew, Peter III, from Holstein to rule Russia after her death.

And as we know...Peter III didn't last long.  ;)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: umigon on August 24, 2005, 06:02:33 AM

yes but her children with Alexei Razumovsky or with any other men would have been regarded as illegitimate, and Russia wasn't in a situation in which bastards would have been accepted as Emperors. Peter of Holstein was, on the other hand, absolutely legitimate, and the son of a Grand Duchess of Russia and a German prince, not the son of an Empress of Russia and her morganatic husband, who was a peasant!
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: ilyala on August 26, 2005, 03:33:13 AM
on the other hand both elizabeth and her sister, anne, were a bit illegitimate, because i think they were born before peter's marriage to catherine...
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Svetabel on August 26, 2005, 04:40:05 AM
Quote
Did Empress Elizabeth (1709-1762) have any illegitimate issue?

Was Yelizaveta Alekseyevna Tarakanova her real daughter??


What do you think?


Many historians think that the Empress Elizaveta Petrovna was secretly married to Alexey Razumovskiy and had a daughter from him. I do not mean that adventuress Princess Tarakanova (she was not a daughter of the Empress) but another woman, who died as a nun (named Dosiphea).
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: umigon on August 26, 2005, 08:27:42 AM
Thanks to everyone for your contribibutions!
Any more info, please post it!!
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 19, 2005, 03:56:01 PM
Quote
Alexei Razumovsky!


He was indeed Elizabeth's lover, by the court he was called "the Tsar of the night".
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: hikaru on October 25, 2005, 01:33:42 AM
Presumably, she had two children with hidden husband - count Alexey Razumovsky :
1. Daughter Augusta, princess Tarakanova ( later nun named Dosiphea)
2. Son , who later became the monk of Pereslavl-Zalessky monastery.

Presumably she also had a son named Fedorov-Tourchaninov . Hs father was Musin-Pushkin.
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on October 25, 2005, 11:42:21 PM
Ive heard  That  Elizabeth  herself  was illegitimate   is there  any truth  to this    also may ask would it be alright  for someone to post a  Peter the Great   thread
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: ilyala on October 26, 2005, 05:24:27 AM
elizabeth was the daughter of peter the great and catherine 1st. catherine 1st was for a very long time peter's mistress and was actually a servant who ran from lithuania during the russian-swedish war. elizabeth was born before they were actually married. so yeah she was pretty much illegitimate
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on October 26, 2005, 11:45:55 AM
What can you tell me about her  Father  (I Know alot  but would love to learn more)
What  were his last Words
What did he die from
How tall  was he  (ive heard  6.7.) ect ect
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: ilyala on October 26, 2005, 03:01:51 PM
there's a peter the great thread around here somewhere but i can't be bothered so i'll tell you some stuff about him here:

peter the great was the son of the tsar alexei mihailovich and his second wife, natalia narishkina. his second marriage was not very well perceived by his first wife's family, the miloslavskis, and that led to some frictions later. among alexei's children by his first wife, there were a girl, sophia, and two boys feodor and ivan, who were not very healthy phisically, unlike peter who was always very strong.

feodor was the oldest son of alexei's and he ruled as feodor the 3rd for six years. he was very frail but not an invalid. when he died, his brother ivan was a bit of a retarded so many people thought that peter should succeed to the throne. after he was installed on his throne, though, there was a rebellion on behalf of ivan, led by his mother's family and by his sister sophia. in the end a compromise solution was reached: both ivan and peter ruled together. but since ivan was retarded and peter was a child, the regency went to their older sister sophia. she has not left a very positive image in history, but i tend to think she was quite a capable ruler.

when peter reached maturity, sophia's position was kind of frail because her regency made no sense anymore. she married her borther ivan with praskovia saltikova, in hope that he would have a male heir that would kind of eliminate peter from the line of succession. but ivan only had two girls. peter, on the other hand, married evdokia lopukhina and had a son, alexei. sophia and peter became very weary of each other and at some point he ran off to the trotki-sergius monastery, nearby moscow. many officers joined him. sophia didn't have enough people to back her up. she retired to a convent and peter started ruling on his own, since ivan was very easy to handle.

a very strong influence in peter's ruling was his mother. after her death in 1694, peter started to play a more and more active role in the governing of russia. his important purpose was to reach the baltic sea with his territories, but for that he had to fight sweden. he wasn't much of a strategist. most of his reforms were dictated by his external purposes. most of his purposes had been there before with previous tsars. but he was more determined to do them so there were lots of changes in his reign, more than in the previous ones. one of his famous actions was the cutting of the boyars' beards in 1698, because he wanted to get western traditions into russia. he placed a tax on beards and made a law that courtiers should wear western clothes. in 1699 he adopted the western calendar.

his personal life consists on a conflict with his first wife, evdokia, her son, alexei, and a torrid affair with catherine. while there were other mistresses, these are the most important parts. evdokia was very religious, unlike peter and she was a bit rigid for him and they didn't get along well. she mainly raised alexei, who was kind of biased against his ftather. alexei was a traditionalist. his mother, like many boyars, rejected peter's measures of westernizing the country. peter was afraid that if alexei was tsar after him, he would destroy all his work.  in the meantime, peter exiled evdokia to a convent and officially divorced her.alexei, of course, resented that. he married charlotte christina of brunswick-wolfenbuttel, who bore him a son and a daughter. but around that time, catherine, peter's mistress gained more and more influence and in the end he married her. she bore him a son, piotr, in 1715. that meant that the succession to the throne no longer depended on alexei. alexei became weary of peter and ran away when the tsar threatened he will lock him into a convent.  peter tracked him down, forced him to come back home and publicly give up his right to succession.  alexei was then thortured and under thorture gave a few names of his friends as part of a plot to dethrone the tsar. he then had to watch his friends die and was sentenced to death. there's a rumour that peter killed him with his bare hands, but there's no proof.

in 1719 piotr, peter's son, died. peter didn't want his grandson peter to succeed. so in 1724 he crowned his wife catherine, empress (she was a former servant, may i remind you) and left the crown to her. before he died, he almost changed his mind because he realized she was not entirely faithfull to him. but he died before he had a chance to do something about it.

catherine made her daughter elizabeth her heir. there were still many supporters of piotr alexeevich around. there was even talk of peter marrying elizabeth (who was practicallyhis aunt) but then her lover menshikov convinced catherine to marry peter to his daughter, mary. catherine died in 1727. peter in the end didn't marry mary and menshikov was exiled to siberia. peter was crowned tsar but he died of smallpox at 23 years old without managing to conceive an heir, although he was married to catherine dolgoruky. he died in the wedding night.

the next heir was tsarina anna ivanovna, daughter of ivan 5th.  she named her nephew ivan her heir. ivan was less than two months old when he inherited the throne. biron, his aunt's favorite was named regent but he was eliminated by his rival munnich and exiled to siberia. ivan's mother became regent but she was a mediocre woman. in the end most boyars got sick of her and elizabeth, peter the great's daughter, gained enough support to becaome tsarina. ivan died in prison under catherine the great's rule, twenty years later.

Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: imperial angel on April 10, 2006, 11:53:56 AM
It's possible that she had illegitimate children. Certainly they would never been accepted as heirs to the throne of Russia, but they may have existed  as there is certainly been many rumours of such things.
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: ilyala on April 11, 2006, 07:45:42 AM
i read somewhere that when empress anna came to the throne elizabeth was unable to fight her because she was recovering from the birth of an illegitimate child...
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: imperial angel on April 11, 2006, 10:17:49 AM
While it is certainly likely that Elizabeth had illegitimate children, I think it was Catherine the Great, who was pregnant with the son of Gregory whatever his last name was, in the early months of Peter III's reign, and it was hard to conceal it, and made it harder to fight for her rights. She gave birth before the overthrow of her husband secretly, while the court was watching a fire that had been delibaretly set as a distraction, since Peter liked to watch fires. I have heard there was a possibility that Elizabeth didn't fight for her right to the throne at one time, earlier on because she might have been pregnant. It's certainly likely.
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 01, 2009, 07:43:38 PM
Some portraits of the Tsarina
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Elizabeth_empress.jpg/250px-Elizabeth_empress.jpg)
(http://www.sanpetersburgo.com/imagenesro/ElizabetPetrovna.jpg)
(http://retratosdelahistoria.lacoctelera.net/myfiles/retratosdelahistoria/Elisabeth-I-Petrovna,-Empress-of-Russia_mosaic.jpg)
(http://www.sanpetersburgo.com/imagenesro/Catalina2.jpg)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 01, 2009, 07:44:40 PM
(http://great.russian-women.net/image/Elizabeth_Petrovna.jpg)
(http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/imgs_En/03/artwork/r3_6_3b_anna_elizabeth.gif)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Felicia on June 19, 2009, 09:39:29 AM
Well, the last one in Kaiserin Alzbeta Sissi post is the portrait of Catherine II, not Elisabeth Petrovna.
What about her reign - I can say she was kind (no capital punishment!), and great character, but she has recieved not very good education (f.e. when she was an Empress, she was very amazed to know that Great Britain is the island)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 19, 2009, 07:39:51 PM
Well, the last one in Kaiserin Alzbeta Sissi post is the portrait of Catherine II, not Elisabeth Petrovna.
What about her reign - I can say she was kind (no capital punishment!), and great character, but she has recieved not very good education (f.e. when she was an Empress, she was very amazed to know that Great Britain is the island)

Excuse me :-(
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on June 22, 2009, 05:28:17 AM
Which year she was born....
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Felicia on June 26, 2009, 12:39:15 PM
Elisabeth was born in 1709.
If it was a question:)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Tina Laroche on June 26, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Which year she was born....

She was born on December 29th 1709, I believe. : )
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on June 26, 2009, 03:19:39 PM
Elisabeth was born in 1709.
If it was a question:)

Yea it was a question.
Which year she was born....

She was born on December 29th 1709, I believe. : )

Thanks for the date
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 29, 2009, 08:10:15 PM
Agree with Wikipedia she was born on December 18th, 1709 in
Kolomenskoe :-)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 29, 2009, 08:12:58 PM
Elisabeth by Erichsen,1757
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/lcp/retratosdelahistoria/myfiles/Elisabeth-I-Petrovna_by-V-Erichsen_1757.jpg)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 29, 2009, 08:14:14 PM
Do you have more pics?
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Tina Laroche on June 30, 2009, 05:24:06 AM
... she was born on December 18th, 1709 in
Kolomenskoe :-)

That's the Julian calendar, I guess. ;-)
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: gogm on June 30, 2009, 06:25:46 PM
Please go to the following for images of 18th century Tsaritsas, including Elisabeth Petrovna:  http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/560093558VjgqEN .
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 03, 2009, 07:18:26 PM
Please go to the following for images of 18th century Tsaritsas, including Elisabeth Petrovna:  http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/560093558VjgqEN .

Unfortunately for me your page is heavy for my computer, but I guess that
your images are great
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: King François X on October 08, 2009, 07:28:09 PM
Does anyone have a portrait of her when she was in her late teens/early twenties? when considered drop dead gorgeous?
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: CountessKate on October 12, 2009, 11:12:47 AM
(http://great.russian-women.net/image/Elizabeth_Petrovna.jpg)
(http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/imgs_En/03/artwork/r3_6_3b_anna_elizabeth.gif)

Quote
Well, the last one in Kaiserin Alzbeta Sissi post is the portrait of Catherine II, not Elisabeth Petrovna.

In fact, I believe the Kaiserin is quite correct - Elizabeth Petrovna's portrait was the model for the later, equestrienne portrait of Catherine II by Vigilius Erichsen.  Elizabeth was similarly the beneficiary of a coup d'etat and was also keen to demonstrate her leadership of the Preobrazhenski Guards.  She also thought she had excellent legs and liked to show them off - particularly in the cross-dressing balls which were a unique feature of her court.


Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: agordon2000 on December 15, 2013, 08:23:46 PM
First Ivan and his wife Praskovia had no children till Sophia was deposed. Then they had five girls of which  three lived, Catherine, Ann and Praskovia. Peter can be understood well as CEO of Russia who thought his job as determined by God was to make Russia a financial powerhouse. For this the landlocked country needed a port. He tried initially to trade with Asia but the Black Sea was blocked by the Ottoman Empire so he went to Europe to get help to attack Turkey. No one was interested but the Poles were looking for an ally in attacking Sweden as Germany had pulled out. So Peter began to think of a European port and changing Russia to be a European power.The quick war lasted 21 years, he did not yet know the character of Charles XII the Lion of the North,  but put Russia on the world stage. In the meantime he made the infrastructure, customs and dress of Russia compatible for European trade.

Elizabeth took over in a coup thirteen years after her mother's death because her doctor convinced her that if she did not she would be put in a convent. This was not true but her predecessor was winning a war with France and her doctor who was French, was paid to get her to depose the rule of the baby Ivan VI, well at least the regent who was winning battles.
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 12, 2015, 03:40:20 AM
Is there any good book one could find about Elizaveta Petrovna? I always read about her in Catherine the Great´s bios, but she seems rather fascinating herself and I would like to know more.
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: Maria Sisi on October 12, 2015, 03:55:14 PM
She does appear to be quite an eccentric larger then life character herself doesn't she. The movies on Catherine really don't give Elizabeth her due. She played a much bigger role in shaping Catherine's position and character during the early years in Russia then they actually show.

I suppose she gets buried by history due to being followed by Catherine and not achieving the heights of amazing greatness either she or her father had.
Title: Re: Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
Post by: agordon2000 on February 25, 2017, 11:12:44 AM
Also Catherine the Great wrote about her in a somewhat nasty way, which may not have been true. She was the aunt of her husband who she also wanted to present badly. But she did say she was beautiful by standards of the day.