Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Mediatized Noble Families => Topic started by: Lucien on August 25, 2005, 02:02:45 PM

Title: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Lucien on August 25, 2005, 02:02:45 PM
Fürstin Margareta zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg passed away today,august 25th at the age of 96.

Fürstin Margareta was the mother of HSH Prince Richard- and mother-in-law to HRH Princess Benedikte  zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg,néé Princess of Danmark.

The news was announced by the Danish Court.

http://www.kongehuset.dk/artikel.php?id=72553
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Prince_Lieven on August 25, 2005, 02:26:33 PM
May she rest in peace.
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on August 25, 2005, 05:21:23 PM
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/breezer22/MargBerl2.jpg)
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on August 25, 2005, 05:21:50 PM
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/breezer22/MargBerl1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on August 25, 2005, 05:22:21 PM
Two pictures of her!
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 25, 2005, 06:26:24 PM
Anyone know what her name was before marriage?
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Lucien on August 26, 2005, 04:13:12 AM
Fürstin Margareta,néé Fouché d'Otrante(Sweden),is of the Counts Douglas(Sweden)by maternal side.
Through her father she descended from Joseph Fouché,Minister of Police during Napoleons Reign.Lucien.
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Wettin on August 26, 2005, 06:31:55 AM
The dukes d´Otrante are Sweden´s only non-royal dukes. Margareta was since her youth a close friend of Queen Ingrid of Denmark, born princess of Sweden.
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on August 27, 2005, 07:10:56 PM
Just great!Have some more pictures of her or her husband?
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Lucien on August 29, 2005, 01:10:19 AM
In the sixties Prince Richard was believed to be a possible future husband to the then Princess Beatrix.They both fooled each and everyone as it was a "cover up",since Princess Beatrix had met the late Prince Claus,Richards dear friend,during the wedding of Richards sister Tatiana to Moritz of Hessen.Both Families always were/remained very close.Lucien.
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on August 29, 2005, 06:03:13 AM
Thank you so much for posting those pictures!If you find some more pictures or even portraits of Berleburg family please post it,specially of less known family members!It would be grat to see them also!
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Michelleq on November 29, 2005, 11:49:05 AM
I know that the Princes of Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs were initially counts. What is the history of this family? How are they related to the "Sayns" and "Sayn Wittgensteins" Also, Prince Richard of SWB is the Brother in law of Moritz, Prince of Hesse? Can the Berleburgs inherit another Princely house? Also, how can a German Princely House become Royal?Can Prince Moritz make Prince Richard's 'house' Royal?

Thank you all in advance.
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marlene on November 30, 2005, 10:00:25 AM
Quote
I know that the Princes of Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs were initially counts. What is the history of this family? How are they related to the "Sayns" and "Sayn Wittgensteins" Also, Prince Richard of SWB is the Brother in law of Moritz, Prince of Hesse? Can the Berleburgs inherit another Princely house? Also, how can a German Princely House become Royal?Can Prince Moritz make Prince Richard's 'house' Royal?

Thank you all in advance.



See this link  
http://www.sayn.de/engl/haupt_familie_en.htm

Moritz is Richard's FORMER brother-in-law ... the House of Hesse is not royal  - only the head of the house and the heir are HRH.  No, Moritz cannot make Richard's house royal.  
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: MarieCharlotte on September 15, 2007, 06:35:36 AM
Dear forum members,

I just found some very nice CDVs on ebay showing Lucia Princess zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg. I had a look at Paul Theroff's Online Gotha and found out that she was the only child of Emil and his first wife Pulcheria Princess Cantacuzène. Her mother died when she was only six years old. Her father's second marriage to Camilla Stefanska in 1868 was a morganatic one. They must have had issue, any information?
Lucia's life seemed to be very sad. She married Victor von Schönburg and gave birth to five children. On November 1st 1888, her second son Alexander died in 1888 aged 5 and only 17 days later, her husband died aged 32. In 1894 her eldest daughter Lucia died aged 13. Lucia didn't remarry and lived with her three surviving children Victor, Sophie and Günther.
Lucia died aged 44 at Dresden on September 24th 1903. What happened to Sophie and Günther?
Does anybody know why so many members of Lucia's family died so young? Any pictures?

I would also be interested in pictures and information about Victor as he was the first husband of Eleonory (Lory) of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, later Duchess Ludwig Wilhelm in Bavaria.


Thanks. Marie
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on September 15, 2007, 08:09:40 AM
Well,her daughter Princess Sophie Helene Cecilie became Princess von Wied and Fuerstin of Albania and she had 2 children,but unfortunatly her issue is now extinct!
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Svetabel on September 22, 2007, 02:24:07 AM
MarieCharlotte,

I guess you know these pictures of Prince Victor and his wife Eleonore

(http://www.picatom.com/9/Duchess%20Eleonoreandher1stspouse-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/9/Duchess%20Eleonoreandher1stspouse-1.html)

(http://www.picatom.com/9/Duchess%20Eleonoreandher1stspouse-2-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/9/Duchess%20Eleonoreandher1stspouse-2.html)
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: MarieCharlotte on September 22, 2007, 02:05:50 PM
No, I didn't know them. So thanks a lot.

I found a couple of pics of Lucia on worldroots. She was such a pretty child!
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Rebecca on November 04, 2007, 04:07:50 AM

I just found some very nice CDVs on ebay showing Lucia Princess zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg. I had a look at Paul Theroff's Online Gotha and found out that she was the only child of Emil and his first wife Pulcheria Princess Cantacuzène. Her mother died when she was only six years old. Her father's second marriage to Camilla Stefanska in 1868 was a morganatic one. They must have had issue, any information?




Hello Marie Charlotte,

Prince Emil zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and his second wife Camilla, née Stefańska, had three sons (Ludwig, Wilhelm and Emil). They received the title Freiherr von Kleydorff. Interestingly, Freiherr Ludwig von Kleydorff's elder daughter, Lucy von Kleydorff (1898-1952) married secondly her relative prince Wolfgang zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg.
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: MarieCharlotte on November 04, 2007, 11:37:07 AM
Thanks, Rebecca. :-)
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Norbert on December 31, 2007, 03:01:30 AM
Princess Pulcherie was the daughter of Lucie Palladi 1821-1860 by her 1st husband Nicholas Cantacuzene, she married 2ndly, Marquess de Bedmar a cousin of the Empress Eugene. Lucie was a cousin of the Callimachi family that produced several Princes of Moldavia and Wallachia during 18c. Interestingly she was a cousin of Michel Handjery-Vlangali who married Pss Louise Caroline of Schleswig-holstein, King Milan and Queen Natalie of Serbia, President  Zaimis of Greece and Aspasia Manos
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on January 05, 2008, 05:21:23 PM
How and through whom?Just would like to catch those connections!
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Norbert on January 06, 2008, 08:44:40 AM
I have a copy of Mihail Sturdza's " Grandes Famililles de Grece" Dictionnaire historique 1983.It shows a wonderful family tree from Prince Ioan Callimachi of Moldavia 1758-1761. If somebody would kindly tell/show me how to put pictures onto this site i would gladly send it.
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on January 07, 2008, 03:31:37 AM
You must open photobucket,upload pictures and then you can share images!It's very easy...
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Marc on February 26, 2010, 08:58:27 AM
For those who are interested here is the direct line of her mother Princess Pulcheria from the Byzantine Emperors:


IOANNES VI Kantakuzenos,Emperor of Byzantium from 1347-1354
I
Matias Asen Kantakouzenos,Co-Emperor of Byzantium from 1353-1357
I
Demetrius I Kantakuzenos,Sebastocrator from 1355-1356,Despot of Mereia in 1383,lived from 1343-1420
I
Prince Georgios Palaiologos Kantakouzenos "Sachatai",died in 1459
I
Prince Demetrius II Kantakuzenos
I
Prince Michai Cantacuzene,died in 1522
I
Prince Dimitrie Cantacuzene,the ''Sheitan"(means the Devil),died in 1536 in Pisa
I
Prince Michai Cantacuzene,lived from 1515-1578
I
Prince Andronikos Cantacuzene,lived from 1553-1601
I
Prince Iordache Cantacuzene,Great Treasurer of Moldavia,lived from 1581-1663
I
Prince Iordache Cantacuzene-Pascanu,died in 1720
I
Prince Iordache Cantacuzene-Pascanu,died in 1741
I
Prince Iordache Cantacuzene-Pascanu,lived from 1740-1826
I
Prince Konstantin Cantacuzene-Pascanu,lived from 1778-1843
I
Prince Nicolae Cantacuzene-Pascanu,lived from 1811-1840
I
PRINCESS PULCHERIA CANTACUZENE-PASCANU,lived from 1840-1865=Prince Emil zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg(1824-1878)
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Daniela on August 13, 2010, 02:01:50 PM
Hy,
since I didn't know where to ask this, I've started this new topic.
I've just read this book, written by Furstin Andrea von Sayn Wittgenstain, nee Andrea Johanna Bondorfer. She is married to a Furst Karl Heinz Richard von Sayn Wittgenstain, nee Karl Heinz Richard Boswirth. He was adopted by a Furst Lothar von Sayn Wittgenstain. Now, in this book they are descriped like a very nice people. But, who are they realy? Did Furst Lothar realy adopted Karl Heinz just like that, or is something else behind.

Thanks,
Daniela
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on August 22, 2010, 03:09:08 PM
Did Furst Lothar realy adopted Karl Heinz just like that, or is something else behind.

Money! There are a lot of fake Sayn-Wittgensteins around, some 100 % bogus and some of them legally adopted (allegedly by descendants of a morganatic Bavarian-Austrian line of the branch Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein, which the King of Bavaria made "Fürsten von Sayn-Wittgenstein". The real Sayn-Wittgensteins are nowadays just "Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-etc". (like Queen Margrethe of Denmark's brother-in-law), because Fürst, as a primogenital title is no longer allowed in German noble names. (Fürstin Gloria von Thurn und Taxis is e.g. legally only Gloria Prinzessin von Thurn und Taxis.) Only the bourgeois ones are "Fürst von Sayn-Wittgenstein". Which basically is nothing other than a bourgeois surname like Fürst-Kaiser or König-Herzog!

Of course it's laughable that a real estate broker like Karl-Heinz Richard Fürst von Sayn-Wittgenstein has acquired the lofty title of Fürst. A mere baronial title, like bankers and industrial tycoons got zu Kaisers Zeiten, would have been much more appropriate for such "new money"!
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on August 11, 2014, 07:15:22 AM
can anyone tell me about the death of prinz August-Richard zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg ? (b.Munich 22 Dec 1913 - d.Berlin 22 Dec 1939)

apparently, he was murdered by the Gestapo on his 26th birthday.   but i can't find ANYTHING about him online.     why was he killed BY HIS OWN COUNTRYMEN so early (the BEGINNING!) in the war?

why was someone so young THAT important?   why is there NO info about him?    granted, he was young, so i'm guessing there wasn't that much to tell.... so why kill him?


i'd appreciate any information and/or suggestions on where to look.

thanks!

-- brian
(brnbg aka liljones1968)
Title: Re: Sayn Wittgenstein Berleburgs
Post by: Превед on August 11, 2014, 02:46:06 PM
can anyone tell me about the death of prinz August-Richard zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg ? (b.Munich 22 Dec 1913 - d.Berlin 22 Dec 1939)

apparently, he was murdered by the Gestapo on his 26th birthday.   but i can't find ANYTHING about him online.     why was he killed BY HIS OWN COUNTRYMEN so early (the BEGINNING!) in the war?

why was someone so young THAT important?   why is there NO info about him?    granted, he was young, so i'm guessing there wasn't that much to tell.... so why kill him?


i'd appreciate any information and/or suggestions on where to look.

thanks!
-- brian
(brnbg aka liljones1968)

I see some links pointing to his relationship with his stepfather, Richard Merton, an industrialist and politician who was president of Vereinigte Deutsche Metallwerke (United German Metal Works), had been a member of the German delegation at the Versailles Conference and was put in Buchenwald concentration camp by the Nazis because he was Jewish (original family name: Moses).