Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Danish Royal Family => Topic started by: Rosamund on August 29, 2005, 02:59:56 PM

Title: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on August 29, 2005, 02:59:56 PM
King Frederik V1 of Denmark was the son of cousins, King Christian V11 of Denmark and Princess Caroline Matilda of Great Britain who had a shared grandfather in King George 11 of Great Britain.  Frederik married his cousin Marie, Landgravine of Hesse-Kassel.  Marie was the daughter of Karl, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel and Princess Lovisa of Denmark, cousins who shared a grandfather in King George 11 of Great Britain.

The closely related King and Queen had eight children:

1c) Christian (Copenhagen 22 Sep 1791-Copenhagen 23 Sep 1791)
2c) Marie Louise (Copenhagen 19 Nov 1792-Frederiksborg 12 Oct 1793)
3c) Caroline (Christiansborg 28 Oct 1793-Copenhagen 30 Mar 1881)
4c) Louise (Copenhagen 21 Aug 1795-Copenhagen 7 Dec 1795)
5c) Christian (Copenhagen 1 Sep 1797-Copenhagen 5 Sep 1797)
6c) Juliana Louise (Copenhagen 12 Feb 1802-Copenhagen 23 Feb 1802)
7c) Frederikke Marie (Copenhagen 3 Jun 1805-Copenhagen 14 Jul 1805)
8c) Wilhelmine Marie (Kiel 18 Jan 1808-Glücksburg 30 May 1891)

Caroline and Wilhelmine alone survived to adulthood.

What were the reasons for the deaths of the other children?

Caroline married Prince Ferdinand of Denmark, her father's cousin and was childless.  
Wilhelmine married Prince Frederik (later, King Frederik VII), her second cousin.  Again the marriage was childless and they were divorced.  She then married her cousin Karl, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.  Karl's mother Luise, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel was the daughter Karl, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel and Princess Lovisa of Denmark.  Once more, no children are recorded from this union.

Did Caroline and Wilhelmine have any miscarriages or stillborn babies not recorded here?

My information is from Paul Theroff's files.






Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on August 31, 2005, 06:07:07 PM
The books just say they were weak at birth and that is why they died. I have never heard a more specifik reason why so many of queen Maries children died.

Neither Caroline or Wilhelmine had any miscarriages or stillborn babies.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on September 05, 2005, 03:39:09 PM
Thank you Kmerov.  I have read that there were objections to the marriage of Frederik V1 and Marie of Hesse-Kassel.  Was their consanguity the reason for this? Did they overcome the objections because were attracted to each other?
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 05, 2005, 04:43:43 PM
No, the reason was more politicial. His sister, Louise Augusta was against it, because it could mean that Maries father took the place of the kings advicer instead of the duke of Augustenborg, which also was feared by the intellectuels who didn't like him. Marie was also very shy which didn't make her popular at first. It was Frederik VI who wanted to marry her because they were cousins, and not so much out of love.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on September 10, 2005, 04:40:24 PM
How strange it seems, from a present day perspective, that he married her because they were cousins: considering the close relationship of their parents.  

The early demise of most of their children is particularly incongruous, as Marie seems to have carried a longevity gene from the Hesse family.  Their two surviving daughters each lived more than eighty years.

Frederik's four children by his mistress fared better; with the exception of a son who died in his teens they all reached adulthood. I have not yet been able to find out if any gave him grandchildren.      
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 15, 2005, 08:07:50 PM
Frederik wanted to unite the family and that was the main reason for marrying his cousin ( and later his daughters to Frederik VII and prince Ferdinand).

I know that his oldest daughter gave him grand children, but his son died without heirs.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 15, 2005, 08:12:16 PM
Frederik VIs mistress, Frederikke Dannemand 1790-1862, the last official maitresse in Danish history.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/1700tallet/oberstindedannemand.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 15, 2005, 08:14:22 PM
And frederik VI with his family.
(http:// http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/1700tallet/frederik6familie.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on September 18, 2005, 03:07:42 PM
Thank you so much for the portrait Kmerov.  I do not know what this section of the Forum would do without you, our Danish expert!!

Frederikke looks old and worn; she displays no jewels or fine clothes. The post of Official Mistress to the King of Denmark appears most unrewarding.  No wonder she was the last!  

At least Frederik had some grandchildren by her.  The lack of children by his legitimate daughters must have disappointed his hopes of family unity, especially when Wilhelmine was divorced from her husband.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 19, 2005, 09:43:47 AM
You are welcome, and thank you very much for saying that. :)

Frederikke had quite a fortune, but she also spend alot, and of course after the kings death her income wasn't the same..

His dream of a strong united Oldenborg dynasty to continue after him didn't last very long.
Frederik of course always wanted a son and heir, and he called his eldest daughter Crown Princess Caroline for many years, a title with no effect.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 19, 2005, 10:02:54 AM
A young Frederik VI
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/frederik6ung.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/frederikVI.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 19, 2005, 10:07:23 AM
Queen Marie
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/dronningmarie.jpg)
(http:// http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/mariesophie.jpg)
(http:// http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/mariesphfrede.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Marc on September 20, 2005, 07:17:39 AM
Great portraits Kmerov!If you find some more,please post them  :)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 20, 2005, 06:52:15 PM
Princess Caroline
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/arvcarolinedk.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on September 20, 2005, 06:59:21 PM
Princess Wilhelmine
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/wilhelmine.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/wilhelmine2.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Daniela on September 21, 2005, 02:05:19 AM
Maria of Hesse Cassel, wife of Frederik VI (1767-1839)

Marie Sophie Frederikke was Queen Consort of Denmark and Norway. She was born as "Marie Sophie Friederike von Hessen-Kassel", the eldest child of Prince Charles of Hesse-Cassel and Princess Louise of Denmark.
Her paternal grandparents were Landgrave Frederick II of Hesse-Cassel and Princess Mary of Great Britain. Mary was a daughter of George II of Great Britain and Caroline of Ansbach. Her maternal grandparents were Frederick V of Denmark and Louise, another daughter of George II of Great Britain and Caroline of Ansbach. Her father was the second son of the Landgrave and as such, had no own principality. Thus he acted in several such positions that were offered to cadet members of royal houses by their reigning relatives. Denmark was offering more and better positions than the small Cassel.
She grew up largely in Denmark, where her father held remarkable positions, such as governorate of provinces. Her mother was third and youngest daughter of king Frederik V of Denmark and his consort, Louise of Great Britain. As such, she was niece of King Christian VII and of Prince Regent Frederik, as well as first cousin of Regent, Crown Prince Frederik, the Danish rulers of that period.
In 1790 she married her first cousin, Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark (1768-1839), then Regent of the Realm, the future king Frederick VI of Denmark, despite objections from the government and the advisors of the Royal House. Her husband had been since 1784 (16 years old) the Regent on behalf of his insane father Christian VII of Denmark, who died 1808. The royal couple assumed the throne officially only upon king Christian's death, having acted as de facto monarchs already some couple of decades. In the aftermath of the defeat of Denmark's ally, Emperor Napoleon of the French, Denmark lost its dominion Norway, and the royal couple ceased to be Norway's king and queen in 1814.
They had eight children. However, none of Frederick VI's sons survived infancy and when he died in 1839, he was succeeded by his cousin, Christian VIII of Denmark. The surviving children of King Frederick VI and Queen Marie Sophie Frederikke were their two daughters:
- Caroline of Denmark (1793-1881), married her father's first cousin, Hereditary Prince Frederick Ferdinand of Denmark (died 1863), some months before his nephew Frederick VII of Denmark, Hereditary Prince of Denmark, youngest son of Hereditary Prince and sometime Regent Frederik of Denmark and as such brother of Christian VIII of Denmark. She had no children
- Wilhelmine of Denmark (1808-1891), firstly married her second cousin Prince Frederik of Denmark, the future Frederick VII of Denmark, but they divorced, and she married secondly Duke Charles of Lyksborg, Duke of Glucksburg, who was eldest brother of the future Christian IX of Denmark. Both her marriages were childless.
Queen Marie Sophie Frederikke lamented the total lack of sons and of grandchildren of her own. When her youngest sister, Duchess Louise Caroline of Lyksborg, became widow when most of her large brood of children yet very young, Queen Marie accepted some of the younger ones into her tutelage in the Royal Household. They were much younger than queen's own two surviving daughters, which implies that the queen felt like a grandmother. One such foster child of hers was prince Christian of Lyksborg, born 1818, the future Christian IX of Denmark.
Christian of Lyksborg and his wife Louise of Hesse named their second daughter, Marie Sophie Frederikke Dagmar of Lyksborg (born 1847), in Queen's honor and her namesake. After her death (1852), that girl became Tsarina Maria Fedorovna of Russia, preserving there the Queen's first name (Maria/Marie).

BTW, Princess Wilhelmine looks very pretty on those portraits.

Daniela
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Marc on September 21, 2005, 11:15:01 AM
Are there some more colour portraits of Princess Caroline?
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on October 02, 2005, 11:10:50 AM
Quote
Maria of Hesse Cassel, wife of Frederik VI (1767-1839)


Queen Marie Sophie Frederikke lamented the total lack of sons and of grandchildren of her own. When her youngest sister, Duchess Louise Caroline of Lyksborg, became widow when most of her large brood of children yet very young, Queen Marie accepted some of the younger ones into her tutelage in the Royal Household. They were much younger than queen's own two surviving daughters, which implies that the queen felt like a grandmother. One such foster child of hers was prince Christian of Lyksborg, born 1818, the future Christian IX of Denmark.
Christian of Lyksborg and his wife Louise of Hesse named their second daughter, Marie Sophie Frederikke Dagmar of Lyksborg (born 1847), in Queen's honor and her namesake. After her death (1852), that girl became Tsarina Maria Fedorovna of Russia, preserving there the Queen's first name (Maria/Marie).


I am pleased that Queen Marie found an outlet for her grandmotherly feelings with her sisters' children.  I wonder if Hans was one of them.  

Wilhelmine does look very attractive, particularly in the full-length portrait.  I have cut and pasted more information about her from the Rosenborg Castle site.

Princess Vilhelmine was the daughter of Frederik VI and Marie Sophie Frederikke. She was married to Prince Frederik (VII) from 1828 to 1837 and from 1838 to Duke Carl of Schleswig-Holstein.

Vilhelmine's marriage to Prince Frederik united the two lines of the Royal House, but the liaison soon turned out to be an unhappy one. That was not least because of Frederik's debauched life with infidelity and heavy drinking. The couple were separated in 1834 and divorced three years later. In 1838 Vilhelmine was married to Carl of Schleswig-Holstein, an elder brother of the later King Christian IX.

Carl was active on the Schleswig-Holstein side of the war against Denmark in 1848-1851 (the Three Years War). That caused Vilhelmine's relations with the Danish Royal family to be severed for some time. In 1852 there was reconciliation and she again enjoyed a close relationship with her family in Copenhagen.

It is surprising that she was able to divorce in a time when women were expected to accept these situations, especially as her father was intent on uniting the family.  Did the fact that she was childless influence the situation?  I hope Carl was a better husband to her.

Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on October 02, 2005, 04:06:40 PM
Well, Frederik VI was pretty tired of Prince Frederiks behavour, and after he threatend to kill Wilhelmine ( I think he was drunk), he agreed to the divorce.  Maybe the lack of children made it easier for FVI to make that decision. I think her marriage with Duke Carl was happier, eventhough he was very unpopular in Denmark.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on October 02, 2005, 04:46:54 PM
Quote
Are there some more colour portraits of Princess Caroline?

I don't have any to post right now, but I will look.
Here is a portrait of Carolines husband, Prince Ferdinand.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/arveprinsferdinand2.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on October 02, 2005, 04:58:45 PM
And some photos. Caroline wasn't very pretty and it didn't help that she was burned in the face in an accident in 1830 which left permant scars.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/arveprinsessecarolinedk.jpg)
Ferdinand and Caroline
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/ferdcar.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Daniela on October 03, 2005, 02:44:20 AM
Beautiful photos, Kmerov.

What happened to Caroline, that she was burnt? What kind of accident?

Daniela
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on October 06, 2005, 06:23:19 PM
It was an accident that happend while she was doing her evening toilette. A piece of her hair- arrangement caught on fire and she was burned in the face..
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on October 26, 2005, 05:42:28 AM
Quote
Well, Frederik VI was pretty tired of Prince Frederiks behavour, and after he threatend to kill Wilhelmine ( I think he was drunk), he agreed to the divorce.  Maybe the lack of children made it easier for FVI to make that decision. I think her marriage with Duke Carl was happier, eventhough he was very unpopular in Denmark.


Had Carl been unpopular in Denmark before he took Prussia's side in the Schleswig-Holstein war?  I am surprised that Wilhelmine was able to be reconciled with her relatives knowing the animosity to the winning side that was held forever afterwards by Alix and others.


Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on November 02, 2005, 11:08:11 AM
Quote

Had Carl been unpopular in Denmark before he took Prussia's side in the Schleswig-Holstein war?  I am surprised that Wilhelmine was able to be reconciled with her relatives knowing the animosity to the winning side that was held forever afterwards by Alix and others.



No,I wouldn't say that. Prior to the war he and Wilhelmine lived a quiet life in S-Holstein.
Well, Wilhelmine was popular among the family, and her status as daugher of a king helped. Carl however remained unpopular in Denmark fot the rest of his life.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on November 06, 2005, 05:53:41 AM

Thank for all the information Kmerov.  If you eventually find more portraits or photographs to add to this thread I would appreciate you posting them.  
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on November 06, 2005, 02:21:17 PM
You are welcome..
Another family portrait.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/1700tallet/fmilywL.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on November 06, 2005, 02:23:52 PM
Queen Marie.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/1700tallet/droningmarsofred.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Rosamund on November 06, 2005, 02:27:52 PM
That is lovely!!  Going for a walk by the river with his family, just as his subjects would.  I can see why King Frederik was popular.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on June 08, 2006, 06:45:24 PM
Princess Vilhelmine Marie, Duchess of Glücksborg.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Glucksburg/hertugindevilhelmine.jpg)

Her husband, Duke Carl of Glücksborg, older brother of Christian IX.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Glucksburg/hertugcarlgport.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on June 08, 2006, 06:48:57 PM
And two pictures of Vilhelmine.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/f6dattervilhelmarie.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/vilhelminemarie.jpg)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Vasaborg on October 02, 2007, 02:36:59 PM
Are there any descendants of Frederik VI s natural children alive today?
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Zanthia on November 01, 2007, 04:58:27 PM
Neither Vilhelmine nor Caroline had any children. Sadly for Queen Marie, she adored children, and would have loved to be a grandmother. But I don't know if any of King Frederik's illegimate children had any. Maybe Kmerov knows?
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Vasaborg on November 24, 2007, 04:19:46 PM
I was surprised while researching Frederick VI that a descendant of his natural daughter by his mistress Frederikke Dannermand married into a relation of the the royal family of Denmark! Dagmar daughter of Frederick VIII married Carl Frederick Castenkiold, and he married Bente Grevenkop- Castenskiold whose ancestor was  Caroline daughter of Frederick VI and his mistress Frederikke Dannemand!.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Norbert on January 12, 2008, 05:28:26 AM
I would be interested to know how Denmark considered the reign of Frederik VII, two marriages ending in divorce and marriage to Css Danner. Were people shocked? 
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on February 25, 2008, 09:05:59 PM
Frederik VII was and remains one of the more popular kings of Denmark. He was popular among the people for granting Denmark a constitution, and for his down to earth manners. The upper classes disliked his marriage to Louise Rasmussen, Fief Countess of Danner, among them Prince Christian (IX) and especially his wife, Princess Louise. One time when she was out driving she noticed the carriage of the king coming towards her, and to her horror the Countess was in it with the king. That ment that she was forced to acknowledge her when greeting the king, an even greater horror for her. :) Luckily the Countess had the tact to turn her head away as if not noticing her, which was a great relief to Louise. That was the only time she "met" the Countess.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/older%20royalty/f7louise.jpg)   
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Norbert on March 03, 2008, 01:53:19 PM
thank you. Did the countess keep in the background or did she play any role in society?
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on March 11, 2008, 11:11:10 AM
You are welcome. The Countess didn't play a role in high society, since everyone disliked her. She was much more loved in the country side by the common people where she and Frederik would travel frequently. She did take some part in politics, and even a brief cabinet, 1859-1860 was known as the Countess's cabinet.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Norbert on March 23, 2008, 08:38:15 AM
 It would be interesting to know more about the Countess. Did she raise her siblings and son into privilege? What was the Countess's Cabinate. Also as a side line his uncle Here Prince Ferdinand had two natural daughters.  Did they play any role in society or were they hidden away? I know of one grand daughter Anna Fernanda Dreyer any others please?
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on April 04, 2008, 07:12:06 PM
Countess Danners son was put of for adoption and spend his life in England running a large estate. He only met his mother after Frederik VII's death, and then only abroad. Rumor has it that the first Danish constitution was signed on his birthday, so that the entire country would flag on his birthday every year. He died in 1908 in a car accident. The Countess's cabinet was a short lived Danish government, that was rumored to be closely associated with the Countess, hence the name.

The natural daughters of Prince Ferdinand didn't play any large role in society, but were known by the royal family and Christian IX later knew all of Ferdinands grandchildren and greeted them when he met them. I don't know their names though.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Norbert on April 11, 2008, 01:33:52 PM
thank you for that..any idea which estate in UK he ran? Ferdinand's dau were  by Marie Clausen whose sister Margarethe was misress to Wilhelm of Hesse:
1) Vilhelmine Clausen + 1892 =Christian Lakjaer +1892,
 2) Marie Fredderikke Clausen + 1886 = Ferdinand Dreyer + 1924 ( 5 daughters)
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: kmerov on April 15, 2008, 08:49:30 AM
You are welcome.
No, I don't know which estate he ran, but it was quite large.
Yes, Prince Wilhelm of Hesse-Philipsthal-Barchfeld who was married to Prince Ferdiands sister, Princess Juliane had an long affair with Margarethe Clausen and she had five daughters with him.
Title: Re: Frederik V1 and his Family
Post by: Norbert on April 20, 2008, 04:47:53 PM
thank you for that..any idea which estate in UK he ran? Ferdinand's dau were  by Marie Clausen whose sister Margarethe was misress to Wilhelm of Hesse:
1) Vilhelmine Clausen + 1892 =Christian Lakjaer +1892,
 2) Marie Fredderikke Clausen + 1886 = Ferdinand Dreyer + 1924 ( 5 daughters)

would be very pleased if you knew of any issue of these two women, i.e. the 5 girls of madam Dreyer . many thanks