Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: synnadene on September 03, 2005, 10:17:18 AM

Title: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: synnadene on September 03, 2005, 10:17:18 AM

Please post pics about the members of family B-Condé and B-Conti.  ;)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 03, 2005, 10:25:34 AM
Wow! Those pics will be hard to find! Perhaps I could outline a little family history first . . .

Louis IX of France's son Robert, Count of Clermont had a son who styled Duke of Bourbon. His descendants were subsequent Dukes of Bourbon, and one of them was Anthony, father of Henri IV. Anthony's youngest brother Louis was styled Prince of Conde. From his great-grandsons Louis and Anthony were descended the princes of Bourbon-Conde and Bourcon-Conti (extinct in 1830 and 1814 respectively).
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: synnadene on September 03, 2005, 10:55:28 AM
Anne Genevieve de Bourbon-Condé,
Duchess of Longueville (August 28, 1619 - 1679)




was the only daughter of Henri II de Bourbon, Prince of Condé, and his wife Charlotte Marguerite de Montmorency, and the sister of Louis, the great Condé.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: synnadene on September 03, 2005, 11:00:23 AM

Louise-Elisabeth de Bourbon-Condé,
princesse de Conti (1693-1775)

(http://www.corpusetampois.com/cpe-0025louiseelisabethdebourbonconde.jpg)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: synnadene on September 03, 2005, 11:05:14 AM

Elisabeth Alexandrine de Bourbon-Condé

(http://www.unarosadoro.com/elisabeth1.jpg)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: synnadene on September 03, 2005, 11:11:05 AM

Louise-Diane d'Orléans (1716-36)
Princess de Bourbon-Conti

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/bourbon/bborleans1/1716%20Louise.jpg)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: umigon on September 04, 2005, 07:01:23 AM
Louis François II de Bourbon-Conti (1734-1814), last Prince of Conti.

(http://fotos.miarroba.com/fotos/e/b/ebfc80e5.jpg)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Marc on September 05, 2005, 05:07:11 PM
Some more Conde/Conti portaits?
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on October 17, 2005, 11:33:33 AM
Just a couple of corrections; Mlle de Blois was Francoise Marie de Bourbon, daughter of Louis XIV and Duchesse D'Orleans, not Princesse de Conde.  Her sister Louise Francoise married the Prince de Conde.  'Always Louise' was Anne Louise Benedicte de Bourbon, their sister-in-law, as she was married to their brother, the Duc du Maine.

Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Helene on October 18, 2005, 12:25:57 AM
Yes I knew that Mlle de Blois was not on the Bourbon Condé family but, like she was on the same painting that Mlle de Nantes, I thought it was a pity to cut the picture. Mlle de Nantes married in 1685  with Louis III of Bourbon Condé and had 9 children ( including  Louis Henry I) , so I thought  she was her place here, and " "Always Louise" was painting by françois de Troy, the painting is in Versailles, this information comes from the national reunion of museums (sometimes they make errors) and are identified like "Louise-Françoise de Bourbon, Mademoiselle de Nantes, Princesse de Condé, représentée en Cléopâtre faisant fondre la perle",if you have others informations about this painting i am open  ;), the next time I will try to give more explanations  ;).
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on October 18, 2005, 10:50:51 AM
Nancy Mitford made the original attribution and although she wasn't infalible she had a pretty sharp eye for pictures, and was chummy with the Versailles curators of her day.  I do think the de Troy looks a bit like the Gobert portrait of the Duchesse du Maine, although to be honest all Gobert portraits look alike:



To add to the confusion, the following is a 'portrait presume de Mademoiselle de Chartres depuis princesse de Conti' by Nattier which looks nothing like the one posted here already:

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/cfarnon/Chatres.jpg)

It is also suggested that it could be Mlle de Sens but the main attribution is of Louise-Diane d'Orleans.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Helene on October 18, 2005, 11:43:44 PM
I consulted the base of the government and you're right it is a portrait of the Duchesse of Maine by Pierre Gobert, there are sometimes confusion in the captions of portraits in the rmn (réunion des musées nationaux), thanks for your rectification   :)


Here your picture of the duchesse de Maine in colour :

http://terresdefemmes.blogs.com/mon_weblog/images/maine.jpeg

Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 22, 2006, 04:12:36 PM
I think that it would be interesting to star a new topic about the duc d'Enghien, Louis-Antoine-Henri de Bourbon-Condé, of the Condé family... He was still young when the revolution toke place, and he had a terrible fate...
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 22, 2006, 04:20:06 PM
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/Louis-Antoine-Henri_de_Bourbon-Cond.jpg)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/DucdEnghienparNVallain.jpg)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 22, 2006, 04:21:56 PM
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/enghien.jpg)

Charlotte de Rohan, the Duc d'Enghien's wife.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/charlott.jpg)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/clip_image002_0030.jpg)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/Enghien.jpg)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 22, 2006, 04:25:32 PM
I would like to know how was the palace of the duc d'Enghien at Ettenheim, Baden... ;D
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 22, 2006, 04:34:40 PM
Was he the one that Napoleon had killed, or am I confused?  :-?
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 22, 2006, 07:46:27 PM
Yes, you are right...It was in 1804 and the Duc Louis Antoine de Enghien was living exiled by the revolution in his state at Ettenheim, in Baden. Napoleon didn't liked the Duc because he could be a very suitble candidate to a new royalist coalition against the republic of France. FOr the other hand,  Napoleon heard news that the Duc was involved at a conspiacy ( Cadoudal-Pichegru conspiracy), with the objective to kill Napoleon himself.
So, Napoleon order his arrest. The Duc was in Baden, an independent state, but Napoleon didn't care. Secretly, french troops passed the Rhine and surrounded the palace of the Duc d'Enghien, and then, he was arrested. He was taken to the Chateau de Vincennes, and than he was killed. It is said that Napoleon's wife, Joséphine, begged for the life of the Duc. Talleyrand also disaprove this action, saying: "that was worse than a crime, it was a mistake". When the Duc was killed, he was only 32 years old.

It is said that the Duc was very kind of his pug. I didn't know if it's true, but I read that his pug was with him when he was killed.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 22, 2006, 07:48:51 PM
«La princesse de ROHAN offrit au duc d'ENGHIEN un carlin du nom de Mohiloff. Le duc d'Enghien, Condé et prince du sang, fût jugé sommairement, exécuté et enterré dans les fossés du château de Vincennes en 1804 sur ordre de Bonaparte. Mohiloff resta sur les lieux de l'exécution de longues heures en gémissant.», from http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bouledoguefrancais.cdlb/carlin.htm

Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 22, 2006, 07:55:15 PM
More about the Duc's dog  ::)
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/moustache-empire/mohiloff_%20le_chien_duc_Enghien.htm
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: palatine on April 23, 2006, 09:51:18 AM
Oddly enough, the Duke of Enghien’s father, Louis Henri de Bourbon-Condé, was also murdered, but not by Napoleon.  

A link to a short but good article about his death:

http://www.shalfiow.demon.co.uk/sophie_dawes/sophie_dawes.htm

Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 23, 2006, 04:31:04 PM
I didn't knew that!
Many of the Bourbon's and french nobles wit conections to Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette had a terrible fate:
- Louis XVI, in the revolution.
- Marie Antoinette, in the revolution.
- Louis XVII, in the revolution.
- Duchesse de Polignac, died young, with cancer.
- Madame Elizabeth, in teh revolution.
- Princesse de Lamballe, in the revolution.
- Duc d'Enghien, by Napoleon.
- Prince de Condé, found hanging dead.
- Duchesse de Guiche, Madame de Polignac's daughter, she died young.
- Duc d'Orléans, by the revolution.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 23, 2006, 04:34:26 PM
A good site about the Prince de Condé's assassination by his mistress, Sophie Dawes, Baronne de Feucheres.
http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/lit/detective/SheStandsAccused/chap5.html
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: polignac on April 25, 2006, 10:26:30 AM
About the Dud d'Enghien's assassination :
http://www.napoleon-series.org/research/miscellaneous/c_enghien.html
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Dmitry Russian on August 11, 2006, 07:44:05 AM
I have been very shaken by its tragical destruction. I think, execution of the person without consequence and court has opened essence of Napoleon as the bloody and ambitious tyrant and the Corsican cannibal.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Agneschen on August 11, 2006, 08:38:51 AM
When she heard about the Duke of Enghien's death, his mistress/wife (many historians think they were married) Charlotte of Rohan is supposed to have said : "I know now that one does not die of a broken heart because I am not dead".
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Yseult on April 29, 2007, 07:29:27 AM
Hello!
Last days I was reading about the murder of Louis, duke of Enghien. Now I feel interested about his "fiancée" or maybe his secret wife, Charlotte Louise Dorothée de Rohan-Rochefort. Anyone can provide information about her life before and after the murder? Anyone can post portraits of the princess?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: palatine on July 27, 2007, 10:28:08 PM
Can anyone share some information about him and/or recommend a book about him?  He seems to have had an interesting career, especially during the French Revolution.

Thanks in advance...
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on September 12, 2009, 04:55:41 AM
Anyone got any pictures of her?! she was the 7th child and 5th daughter of Louis de Bourbon, 'prince de Condé' (known as ''Monsieur le Duc'') and his wife Louise-Françoise de Bourbon; Louise-Françoise was the eldest surviving daughter of Louis XIV and Madame de Montespan..

''Henriette Louise'' Marie Françoise Gabrielle de Bourbon, Mademoiselle de Vermandois, abbess of Abbess of Beaumont-lès-Tours''

Son Altesse royale Madame la duchesse de Chartres

Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Mari on September 20, 2009, 06:09:35 AM
I have been unable to find a Painting of her which is surprising considering so many of the others were Painted! However I found the other Granddaughters of Louis XIV so it seems very odd! Surely there would be something in France maybe?

this site lists this: Born at Versailles, she was once a possible wife for Louis XV( according to Women in Power 1700-1740) the marriage never happened due to the influence of Agnès Berthelot de Pléneuf, Marquise de Prie mistress of the Duc de Bourbon who influenced the marriage to Marie Leszczynska.   She would never marry; known as Mademoiselle de Vermandois, she was abbesse de Beaumont-lès-Tours from 1728; she died at Beaumont; side note:  Louise Adélaïde de Bourbon  was raised by her great-aunt, Henriette de Bourbon (1703-1772),  the Benedictine abbess of Beaumont-lès-Tours (a former commune of Indre-et-Loire),from site below
]] (http://) http://wapedia.mobi/en/Louise-Fran%C3%A7oise_de_Bourbon#3.http://

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://enviedhistoire.canalblog.com/archives/2007/02/18/4047328.html&ei=vcO1StXgOpqTtgfDicmhDg&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmademoiselle%2Bde%2BBlois%2B1703%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DcpF  ......... look under Granddaughters of Louis XIV
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on September 22, 2009, 08:02:04 PM
this is annnoying lol
i want to do a wikipedia article on her and can't find anything on her..

i no she was on the famous list of 99 possible wives for Louis XV and she was abbess but i know nothing else..
..she doesnt seem to have even been written about in many memoirs even :(

anyone else seeen or heard anything of our little mademoiselle de vermandois?!

Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on September 22, 2009, 08:29:24 PM
any pics of Louise Élisabeth de Bourbon-Condé?
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Tybalt on September 23, 2009, 06:03:09 AM
http://www.geneall.net/F/per_page.php?id=15834
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: gogm on September 23, 2009, 02:02:28 PM
I wasn't able to find images of Louise Élisabeth de Bourbon-Condé, but did find images of the Duchesse du Maine:
This is from a fashion history -
(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/4234/2019249720094285158S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2019249720094285158AvSQgq),

(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/44188/2043842380094285158S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2043842380094285158mIpNpX),

(http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/45550/2347909230094285158S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2347909230094285158dIZPrq), and

(http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/13186/2771818060094285158S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2771818060094285158IWUmFh).
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on September 23, 2009, 04:57:29 PM
ODEAAR!

the second image is of Louise Bénédictes sister in law, Louise-Francoise de Bourbon, duchesse de Bourbon; it is by Francois de Troy.. :(

the third is Madame du Maine and is by Pierre Gobert i think :)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on November 02, 2009, 12:45:24 PM
Anne Marie Victoire de Bourbon (11 August, 1675 - 23 October, 1700), known as Mademoiselle d'Enghien then Mademoiselle de Condé was a grand daughter of le Grand Condé; does anyone know if she was ever engaged to anyone at court?!

write baaaaaaaaaack plz =] ha
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on November 03, 2009, 01:56:08 PM
COME ON PEOPLE! :@ HA
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on November 04, 2009, 07:32:54 AM
Anne Marie Victoire was the eldest daughter of the Prince de Condé but was passed over for marriage to the Duc du Maine in favour of her younger sister, Anne-Louise-Benedicte, who was "two fingers" taller.  The daughters of M. le Duc (as he was known at court) were tiny and were called "poupees du sang" (dolls of the blood) rather than princesses of the blood.  Mlle de Condé was extremely upset by this, and having to continue to live with the upset and torment caused by the her father (who was considered almost insane) and to that was attributed her early death (although lung disease played its part).  Saint Simon considered that Mlle de Condé had "a beautiful countenance, and an even more beautiful soul, great wit, sense, reason, kindness, and piety which sustained her in her very sad life. So was she really regretted by all who knew her".
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on November 04, 2009, 02:17:33 PM
thaaanks..but she wasnt the oldest daughter was she?!
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on November 05, 2009, 04:47:26 AM
I should have said she was the oldest princess in line to be married - her sister Marie Therese, was married to the Prince de Conti and it should have been Anne Marie Victoire's turn.   
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on November 06, 2009, 10:42:36 AM
(1 September 1734  – 13 March 1814) was Prince of Conti, succeeding his father Louis François de Bourbon. His mother was Louise Diane d'Orléans, the youngest daughter of Philippe d'Orléans, duc d'Orléans, the Regent of France during the minority of King Louis XV of France. As a member of the reigning House of Bourbon, he was a Prince du Sang.

Biography

Child of the Prince and Princess of Conti, he was born at the Hôtel de Conti in Paris. From birth he was known as the Count of La Marche (formally, Monsieur le Comte de La Marche). He would have very fragile health during his life but despite that, he lived to be 79 years old. His mother Louise Diane d'Orléans died in childbirth on 26 September 1736; the child also died. After Louise Diane's death, the Prince of Conti decided to retire to the château de L'Isle-Adam in order to be away from court and to pursue his love of hunting; later on, his father would have a very distinguished military career; he would also be a great collector and his mistress was the cultured Madame de Boufflers.
The young prince of the Blood was baptised at the Chapelle du château de Versailles on 29 November 1742 in front of the King (Louis XV of France) and his polish wife, Maria Leszczyńska. Eight years later, on 17 May 1750, the Count was made a Knight of the Order of the Holy Spirit[1]. This ceremony was also held at Versailles.
During the Seven Years' War (1756–1763), the young Count took part in the Battle of Hastenbeck on 26 July 1757 as well as the Battle of Krefeld (23 June 1758); in both of these battles, Louis François Joseph held the rank of Field Marshal.

He was married to his first cousin, Marie Fortunée d'Este (1734-1803). Princess Maria Fortunata of Modena was the fourth daughter of Francesco III d'Este, the Duke of Modena, and his wife, Charlotte Aglaé d'Orléans, who was his mother's older sister. Through Marie Fortunée, he was the brother-in-law of the Duke of Penthièvre, the richest man in France.

The marriage contract was signed in Milan on 3 January 1759 by the French ambassador to the court of Turin. A wedding by proxy took place in Milan on 7 February of the same year. It was celebrated in person on the 27th of February at Nangis-en-Brie in France. Maria Fortunata's father settled upon her a dowry of one million livres. In addition, upon her arrival in France, her husband was given a gift of 150,000 livres from King Louis XV. The young comtesse de La Marche was presented to the King, the Queen and the rest of the royal family on 5 March 1759 by the Dowager Princess of Conti. The Dowager Princess of Conti was Louis François' paternal grandmother.

The couple did not get along and never had any children. Many at court said this state of affairs was due to the influence of her husband's mistress, Marie Anne Véronèse, known as Mademoiselle Coraline. Véronèse had been a dancer at an Italian theatre. Louis François and his mistress had two illegitimate children together, born in 1761 and 1767.
In 1770, the marriage of the Dauphin of France, the future Louis XVI, and the Archduchess Maria Antonia of Austria took place. Marie Fortunée, as she was known in France, and her husband were one of twelve couples invited to dine with the newlyweds in the Opéra of the Palace of Versailles, which had been constructed for the royal wedding.
In 1776, his father died making Louis François the head of the Conti branch of the House of Bourbon. In the next years, the Prince and Princess of Conti decided to separate in despite the scandal it caused at court. The official separation date was 12 June 1777. His "wife" would live quietly at the Château de Triel. After fleeing France during the revolution, she would travel incognito as the comtesse de Triel; She would die in Venice, Italy on 21 September 1803 and was buried at the Convent of the Visitation outside the city.

He took the side of Maupeou in the struggle between the chancellor and the parlements, and in 1788 declared that the integrity of the constitution must be maintained. He emigrated following the French Revolution, but refused to share in the plans for the invasion of France. He returned to his native country in 1790.

Arrested by order of the National Convention in 1793, he was acquitted, but was reduced to poverty by the confiscation of his possessions. He afterwards received a pension. In 1797, however, the Directoire decided to exile the last of the Bourbons still living in France. He was sent in exile to Spain along with his few remaining relatives who still lived in France and had not already been killed in the Revolution, including the Duchess of Bourbon. Relegated to a place near Barcelona, he lived in poverty. Refusing to share in the plots of the Royalists, he lived an isolated existence in Barcelona until his death in 1814, when the House of Bourbon-Conti became extinct.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on November 06, 2009, 10:57:37 AM
Charlotte Louise Dorothée de Rohan (never formally ''Rochefort'') lived  25/10/1767 (Paris) + 01/05/1841 (Paris) and was the wife of ''Louis Antoine'' Henri de Bourbon, better known simply as the duc d’Enghien.

the couple married in Baden during the exile of the Bourbon's..Louis Antoine and his wife were distant cousins due to Louis Antoine's paternal grand mother ''Charlotte'' Élisabeth Godefride de Rohan was a member of the House of Rohan.

Charlotte Louise was a daughter of Charles Jules Armand de Rohan, prince de Rohan and Marie Henriette Charlotte d’Orléans-Rothelin and married Enghien on 18 February 1804.

the couple had no children and Charlotte Louise never married again =[

thats all i know..anyone else?
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Mari on November 12, 2009, 03:44:39 AM
Quote
Il eut néanmoins deux fils illégitimes: le Chevalier de Vauréal et le musicien Gatays
Quote

 I am adding to this a little... his two illegitimate children were the Chevalier de Vauréal and the Musician Gatays!

Louis-François (III) Vauréal (1761-1785)
Chevalier de Vauréal
See parents: Louis-François II and Marie-Anne Véronèse (Coraline)(1730-1782).
His brother Pierre-Antoine Gatayes

 Natural son of the last Prince de Conti, he served in the armies as a Brigadier in the second regiment of Dragoons.
He married N. Bontems and maintained until his death a long relationship with Anne-Victoire Dervieux, Ms. Bélanger.
Other sources give a knight of Vauréal as bishop of Rennes, and was elected to the French Academy on the death of Cardinal de Rohan in 1750.

Gatayes Pierre-Antoine (1774-1846)

His parents: Louis-François II and Anne Veronese.

 Natural son of the last Prince de Conti, he distinguished himself as a musician. He had a son, Leo, who became harpist and journalist. (1805-1877)

http://conde.ifrance.com/part2.htm
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Bourgogne on November 12, 2009, 06:31:25 AM
(http://sitesweb.dnsalias.net/images/Sn/RohanRochefort.jpg)

This miniature is a touching souvenir, because the princess gave this portrait of herself to her father-in-law, the duke of Bourbon, after the death of the duke of Enghien. The duke of Bourbon keeped this portrait in his wallet, where it was found after his own (tragic) death.

Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Tybalt on November 21, 2009, 07:43:20 AM
house of Condé
LOUIS I° (5/5/1535-Vendôme+13/3/1569-Jarnac), prince of Condé, count of Roucy and Soissons, duke of Enghien, killed at the battle of Jarnac, married 1st, 22 of june 1551 at Pleissier-les-Roye with Éléonore de Roye (24/2/1535+23/7/1564-casttle of Condé, lady of Conti, countess of Roucy, 2ndly, 8/11/1565 at Vendôme with Françoise of Orléans-Rothelin(5/4/1549-Châteaudun+11/6/1601-Paris). 11 children (8 from the first, 3 from the second).
HENRI I° (1552-La Ferté-sous-Jouarre+5/3/1588-St Jean d'Angély), 2° prince of Condé, married 1st, 6/1571 at Blandy with Marie of Clèves (1553+30/10/1574-Paris) countess of Beaufort, 2dly 16/3/1586 at St Jean d'Angély with Charlotte de La Trémoille (1568-casttle of Taillebourg+28/8/1629-Paris)  3 children (1 from 1st, 2 from 2nd)
Marguerite (8/11/1556-casttle of Roucy+ Y)
Charles (3/11/1557-Nogent-le-Rotrou+1558), count of Valléry
François (19/8/1558-La Ferté-sous-Jouarre+3/8/1614-Paris), 1st prince of Conti, sovereign prince of Chateau-Regnault, married 1st, 17/12/1581 at Le Louvre with Jeanne-Françoise de Coëme (1554+26/12/1601-St Arnould-en-Beauce),lady of Bonnestoile, 2dly, 24/7/1605 at casttle of Meudon with Louise Marguerite of Lorraine-Guise (1588+30/4/1631-casttle of Eu), countess of Eu, princess of Château-Regnault, one girl Marie (8/3/1610-Le Louvre+20/3/1610-St Germain-des-Près)
Louis (30/3/1562-Gandelu-en-Brie+19/10/1563-Muret), count of Anisy
Charles (30/3/1562-Gandelu-en-Brie+30/7/1594-Paris), twin, archbishop of Rouen, cardenal
Madeleine (1563-Muret+7/10/1563-Muret)
Catherine (1564+ Y )
Charles (1566-Nogent-le-Rotrou+1/11/1612-Blandy), count of Soissons and Dreux, married, 27/12/1601 with Anne of Montafié (1577+17/6/1644-Paris), countess of Montafié and Clermont-en-Beauvaisis, lady of Lucé and of Jardin, 5 children
Louis (1567+1568)
Benjamin (1569+1573) 
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Tybalt on November 21, 2009, 10:15:48 AM
children of henri I°
Catherine (1574-Paris+1595-Le Louvre), marquess des Isles
Éléonore (30/4/1587-Paris+20/1/1619-château de Muret), married in 1606 at Fontainebleau with Philippe Guillaume of Orange-Nassau (1554+1618), prince of Orange
HENRI II (1/9/1588-St Jean d'Angély+26/12/1646-Paris), 3° prince of Condé, married 17/5/1609 at Paris with Charlotte Marguerite of Montmorency (11/5/1594-Pézenas+2/12/1650-Châtillon-sur-Loing), lady of St Liebault and Arvilliers, duchess of Montmorency, pair de France, 6 children
children of Charles of Soissons
Louise (7/2/1603-Paris+9/9/1637-Paris), Mademoiselle de Soissons, married 30/4/1617 at Paris with Henri II of Orléans-Longueville (25/4/1595-Paris+1663-Rouen), duke of Longueville, count of Tancarville, sovereign prince of Neufchâtel, childless.
Louis (11/5/1604-Paris+6/7/1641-Marfee-Sedan), count of Clermont, Soissons and Dreux, killed, unmarried
Marie Marguerite (3/5/1606-Paris+3/6/1692-Paris), countess of Soisson and Clermont, married 1625 in Paris with Thomas François of Savoy 21/12/1596-Turin+22/1/1656-Turin), prince of Carignan, count of Soissons, grand-maître of France
Charlotte Anne (1608-Paris+1623-Paris)
Élisabeth (1610-Paris+1611-Paris)
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: REMI on November 21, 2009, 10:56:54 AM
ODEAAR!


ODEAAR? What language are you speaking???
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Tybalt on November 22, 2009, 05:18:33 AM
children of Henri II
Louis (1617-Vincennes+1617-Vincennes)
Henri (1618-Vincennes+1618-Vincennes)
Louis (1618-vincennes+1618-Vincennes), twin
Anne-Geneviève (28/8/1619-Vincennes+15/4/1679-Paris), married 1642 in Paris with Henri II of Orléans-Longueville (25/4/1595-Amiens+1663-Rouen), duke of Longueville and Estouteville, count of Tancarville, sovereign prince of Neufchâtel
LOUIS II(8/9/1621-Paris+11/12/1686-Fontainebleau), 4° prince of Condé, married 9/2/1641 in Paris with Claire Clémence of Maillé-Brézé (25/2/1628-Brézé+16/4/1694-Châteauroux), marquess of Brézé, duchess of Fronsac, she was a niece of Richelieu, 4 children
ARMAND I° (11/10/1629-Paris+21/2/1666-Pézenas), prince of Conti, married 21/2/1654 in Paris with Anne-Marie Martinozzi (1637-Rome+4/2/1672-Paris), she was a niece of Mazarin, 3 children
The 4 first children were born in prison in Vincennes.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: beladona on January 18, 2010, 03:15:50 PM
I´ve read that the small height was brought into the family with Claire Clemence de Maille (grandmother of Anne Marie Victoire)...
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on January 19, 2010, 01:08:09 PM
Quote
I´ve read that the small height was brought into the family with Claire Clemence de Maille (grandmother of Anne Marie Victoire)...

She was very short, and had to wear such high heels to her wedding that she slipped while dancing and fell sprawling on the floor.  Her children were certainly small, and her grandchildren were tiny.  The Grand Condé said that if his race continued to dwindle at the current rate, eventually it would disappear entirely.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Marc on January 19, 2010, 08:59:15 PM
Quote
I´ve read that the small height was brought into the family with Claire Clemence de Maille (grandmother of Anne Marie Victoire)...

She was very short, and had to wear such high heels to her wedding that she slipped while dancing and fell sprawling on the floor.  Her children were certainly small, and her grandchildren were tiny.  The Grand Condé said that if his race continued to dwindle at the current rate, eventually it would disappear entirely.

Well,he was right ;(
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on January 20, 2010, 03:53:39 AM
Quote
Well,he was right ;(

I don't think he anticipated the elimination of the House of Condé by the shooting of the Duc d'Enghien - who seems to have recovered the height lost in previous generations.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on January 20, 2010, 01:03:55 PM
Quote
Well,he was right ;(

I don't think he anticipated the elimination of the House of Condé by the shooting of the Duc d'Enghien - who seems to have recovered the height lost in previous generations.

Lol! Claire-Clémence also brought the Condé's their famous 'madness' - her son Henri Jules, father of Anne Marie, was terribly mad i hear =[
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on January 21, 2010, 08:08:23 AM
He was subject to frenzied rages when he howled silently like a dog or wolf, beat his wife (and servants, but the court naturally were unconcerned about them), and at various times thought he was a bat, rabbit or a plant, and required treating as such (e.g. when thinking he was a plant, having his servants water him).  At one stage he thought he was dead and was starving himself, until his servants pretended that a some of them were dead too, and encouraged him to eat with them until that particular manifestation had worn off.

When in the presence of Louis XIV, his behaviour was greatly modified due to the awe he felt for the King, who pretended not to notice the faces he made or his silent howling, which he probably couldn't control.  However, with anyone else he had no such inhibitions and the female members of his family at least were vulnerable to his rages and moods.  Very occasionally he would actually behave appropriately and graciously ask someone to dinner but anyone who knew him was so frightened of being at the receiving end of his rages, or mad fits, they tried to avoid being in his company if at all possible.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 22, 2010, 09:37:01 AM
Louis-François-Joseph de Bourbon, Prince de Conti (but doesn't the alternative spelling Conty look much more French and better?) was the sole heir of his unmarried paternal Condé great-aunt Louise-Anne de Bourbon, Mademoiselle de Charolais. From her he inherited among other things the marquisat of Chaussin in Burgundy (now in Jura, Franche-Comté), which had belonged to so many renowned dynasties and is my favourite French village. But in order to cover his great-aunt's debts he sold it to Count François-Gaspard de Poly, Marshall of the King's Camps and Armies, to whom it belonged until the Revolution.

Source: Dictionnaire géographique, historique et statistique des communes de la Franche-Comté, volume 2, 1854.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 22, 2010, 03:16:22 PM
Does anybody know why there were Princes of Conti at all? I understand why there were Princes of Condé, they were the First Princes of the Blood. (Although they started to use their princely title a few years before they became First Princes of the Blood....) By why did Louis I of Condé's second son found the line of Princes of Conti? OK, he was also a Prince of the Blood, but so were most of his Condé relatives, but each of them didn't style themselves Prince just because of that. His younger half-brother and his descendants were just Counts of Soissons.

And when and why was the unattractive Italianate spelling Conti adopted instead of the elegant Conty, which today still is the name of the eponymous village?
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 23, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
And how strange that the seigneurie of Condé(-en-Brie) actually passed to the comital Soissons line and eventually to the Savoy-Carignans, from whom Louis XIV confiscated it in favour a certain Marquis de La Faye, diplomat and member of the Académie française. I guess Condé must be seen as one of those royal dukedoms and counties which were just titular, unlike all the other feudal titles in ancien-régime France.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on January 23, 2010, 01:41:02 PM
Quote
By why did Louis I of Condé's second son found the line of Princes of Conti? OK, he was also a Prince of the Blood, but so were most of his Condé relatives, but each of them didn't style themselves Prince just because of that.

He did not 'style' himself a Prince, the marquisate of Conti was raised to a principality for him sometime between 1583 and 1597 and this must have been done either by Henri III or Henri IV as only the King could do such a thing.  The more likely was Henri IV, as François de Bourbon was a genuine Catholic yet a strong supporter of his cousin, and he was strongly opposed to the Guises and other pro-Catholic parties, so was a useful person to advance at court.  However, it is possible that Henri III might have advanced him in rank, possibly to try to drive a wedge between the two branches of the Bourbons since his father and elder brother were Huguenots.  Indeed, at one stage he was considered as a possible successor of Henri III by the opponents of Henri of Navarre because of his Catholicism, although he remained loyal to the head of the house of Bourbon-Vendome despite the differences in religion.  In any case, his elder brother the second Prince de Condé died in 1588 with only one male heir, so it might have been seen as a good move to raise up the next senior prince of the blood after Henri of Navarre, by either King Henri, III or IV, as after his brother died in 1588 he would have been 3rd in line for the throne, after Henri of Navarre and his infant nephew Henri Prince de Condé, and in 1589 he would have been second in line for the throne, since Henri IV fathered no legitimate children until he married his second wife Marie de Medici and the Dauphin Louis was born in 1601.  Ironically of course the first Prince of Conti himself fathered no legitimate children and so was not the founder of a line of Princes of Conti; the principality, which was inherited by the Condé family, was revived in 1629 in favour of his nephew Armand de Bourbon.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 23, 2010, 04:14:14 PM
CountessKate, your explanation of the use of the princely title as a mark of favour in the political-religious fight seems very reasonable.
However:
He did not 'style' himself a Prince, the marquisate of Conti was raised to a principality for him sometime between 1583 and 1597 and this must have been done either by Henri III or Henri IV as only the King could do such a thing.
I would also have thought so, but I understand from François Velde's excellent Heraldica site's article about French princely titles (http://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/frprince.htm#list) that neither the Condé nor the Conti princely titles were explicitly granted by the King, but apparently more or less assumed, probably with royal approval. And when the princely Conti title was revived for Armand in 1629, the marquisate of Conti had already been sold the previous year by his father to none other than Maximilien de Béthune, duc de Sully, in whose family it stayed!

So we actually have to princely titles, Condé and Conti, which eventually were purely titular, or perhaps we can even say mere styles. Strange in the context of l'Ancien régime, where a title was so closely connected to lands. For example the Dukes of Sully did in fact own Sully (a village on the Loire).
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on January 24, 2010, 07:46:20 AM
Yes, I see that François Velde thinks they slid those principalities through on the grounds that they were princes of the blood, and indeed I recall Nancy Mitford writing in 'The Sun King' that the title 'Prince' was not in fact a normal part of the French aristocratic rankings and tended (by sticklers such as Saint Simon) to be sneered at for foreigness and pretension.  And logically it would follow that since the title was rather invented in the first instance, when the marquisate was sold, the princely title didn't go with it, but stayed with the Condés. 
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 24, 2010, 08:49:41 AM
http://img13.imageshack.us/i/couvertureo.jpg/

http://img196.imageshack.us/i/busteb.jpg/

http://img691.imageshack.us/i/gnalogie.jpg


I bought this book at Isle-Adam some years ago maybe it would interest few people here.

I own archival material on the Condé or Conti and should find it somewhere around.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on February 06, 2010, 08:55:06 AM
Amazing that the Princes of Condé succeeded each other as Governors of Burgundy during nearly 150 years: From 1631 to 1789, with just a small break from 1650 to 1659!
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on April 09, 2010, 12:54:59 PM
(http://sitesweb.dnsalias.net/images/Sn/RohanRochefort.jpg)

This miniature is a touching souvenir, because the princess gave this portrait of herself to her father-in-law, the duke of Bourbon, after the death of the duke of Enghien. The duke of Bourbon keeped this portrait in his wallet, where it was found after his own (tragic) death.



Love it!! Who was the painter do we know!?
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: Bourgogne on April 09, 2010, 05:22:03 PM

Love it!! Who was the painter do we know!?

Yes, the picture is attributed to François-Joseph Desvernois, but there are very few informations about him. It was a french miniaturist who essentially worked in 1799 in Strasbourg (Charlotte's portrait was certainly made at this time),  and later in Switzerland... That's all what we know...
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: AlexofLisbon on September 02, 2010, 09:32:34 AM
Dear readers,

you must be familiar with Madame de Bourbon Louise Marie Thérèse Bathilde d'Órléans, sister of Philippe Égalitè. She married the Prince de Condé. What is most remarkable about this person is her biography. Please have a look at Wikipedia and you will find out more about her at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathilde_d%27Orl%C3%A9ans

What I'm most interested to know is exactly to where was she exiled, along with her daughter and sister-in-law.
The references mention some place near Barcelona but apparently not really Barcelona. Any idea? That would be very important for me so thank you so much if you can help me.

Alex
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: CountessKate on September 02, 2010, 12:49:05 PM
The musée Condé à Chantilly has a painting by the duchesse de Bourbon entitled: "Intérieur de la salle à manger de Mme la duchesse d'Orléans à Sarria (Espagne) durant son exil de 1792 à 1814, Mme de Chastellux entoure de son bras Mme la duchesse d'Orléans (recto) ; Arrivée du comte Alfred de Chastellux auprès de sa mère à Sarria (verso)".  So the duchesse de Bourbon must have been at Sarria at least some of the time (according to an inscription it was painted in Sarria in 1798).  Sarria however is nowhere near Barcelona; of course, the duchesse de Bourbon may have lived nearer Barcelona and simply visited her sister-in-law in Sarria.  Here is a link to the BJ entry (which has a copy of the picture, showing rather reduced circumstances for the duchesse d'Orleans, at any rate):
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=CHERCHER&FIELD_98=AUTR&VALUE_98=ORLEANS%20Louise%20Marie%20Th%e9r%e8se%20Bathilde%20d%27&DOM=All&REL_SPECIFIC=1

There are at least two others in what seems to be a series of domestic scenes set in Sarria, labelled by Base Joconde as by 'Louise de Bourbon' just to confuse:
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=CHERCHER&FIELD_98=AUTR&VALUE_98=BOURBON%20Louise%20de&DOM=All&REL_SPECIFIC=1

Presumably Comte Ducos goes into more detail in his 'La Mère du duc d'Enghien 1750-1822', if you can get hold of a copy.
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: trentk80 on September 03, 2010, 09:29:44 PM
What I'm most interested to know is exactly to where was she exiled, along with her daughter and sister-in-law.
The references mention some place near Barcelona but apparently not really Barcelona. Any idea?

From 1797 to 1808 the Duchess of Orléans lived in Sarrià, which used to be a small village near Barcelona, and nowadays is a neighbourhood in the district of Sarrià-Sant Gervasi in Barcelona. The street where she used to live is called "Duquessa d’Orleans".
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: AlexofLisbon on September 04, 2010, 12:10:28 PM
Dear CountessKate, Dear Trentk80,

Thank you so much for your replies. They are most useful I'm sure.
You two were absolutely brilliant! Thanks a lot!
Regards from Lisbon
Alex
Title: Re: Bourbon-Condé and Bourbon-Conti
Post by: AlexofLisbon on September 04, 2010, 12:47:44 PM
I now have a further question about Madame de Bourbon Louise Marie Bathilde. On the journey to her exile in Spain she was escorted by a 27 year old gendarme to whom she became attached and there are references of her somewhat irregular relationship (age difference, status, he was her keeper so to say). She was 47 but I have the feeling that despite her age, she might have conceived a child from this young man. This child must have obviously been hidden from the general public as she did, decades earlier with her illegitimate daughter who she never mothered publicly. Also this child didn´t return to France with her mother. Bathilde's nephew, King Louis Philippe I, burnt her diary and some letters so the information about this eventual child would be lost, as he also destroyed the military file on this young man which is quite extreme, don't you think?. The couple - Bathilde and the young gendarme got together when she returned to France but he died long before her, stricken by a disease.
Have anyone read about this possibility or came across the same suspicion? I believe it is quite a mind challenging theory but altogether very possible.
Thanks!