Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 11:43:03 AM

Title: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 11:43:03 AM
Here's a thread to dicuss Princess Helene, who came very close to becoming Queen of Great Britain and Empress of India through her engagment to Prince Eddy, Duke of Clarence. Pics and info welcome, especially about Helene's later life!  :)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: TampaBay on September 29, 2005, 11:52:03 AM
Who did she marry eventually?

How did she meet Eddy!

Any back ground her family?  I know were father was a/the pretender to the French Throne.

She must have been a "woman of substanial subatance" as she was the personal choice Of Tsar Alexander III, Tsaria Marie and the Imperial Russian Ministers to marry Nicholas II!  

It is my understanding QV more than approved of her!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 12:11:16 PM
I will try my best, TB!!

Princess Helene was the daughter of Louis Philippe, Comte de Paris, who was the grandson of Louis Philippe d'Orleans, King of the French who was deposed in 1848. Helene's mother was Marie-Isabelle de Montpensier, the Comte's first cousin.

Helene had several brothers and sisters:
1. Marie-Amelie (1865-1951). She married Carlos I of Portugal.
2. Philippe (1869-1926). He succeeded his father as pretender to the throne, married Archduchess Maria Dorothea of Austria but died childless.
3. Isabelle (1878-1961). She married Jean d'Orleans, Duc de Guise, her first cousin.
4. Louise (1882-1958). She married Prince Carlos of the Two Sicilies.
5. Ferdinand (1884-1923). He married Maria Isabel de  Valdeterrazo, but died childless.

After her separation from Eddy, she married Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Aosta, cousin of Victor Emmanuel II of Italy in 1895 and had these children:

1. Amedeus II, Duke of Aosta (1898-1942). He married Anne, the daughter of Helene's sister Isabelle.
2. Aimone (1900-1948). He married Princess Irene of Greece.

Helene died in 1951 aged 79.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Alicky1872 on September 29, 2005, 12:25:58 PM
I'll just re-post this from the old Marguerite d'Orleans thread I started!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/gurutiek/orleans.jpg)

The Orleans cousins enjoying a lovely summers day. Marie (later Princess Waldemar of Denmark) is reclining against her cousin Amelie (later Queen of Portugal). Standing behind Amelie is Helene (who famously loved my Eddy  ;D and later became Duchess of Aosta) and the two younger children are Marguerite (Duchess of Magenta) and Prince Jean (later Duke of Guise).


(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs27/elenaofaosta.jpg)
It's easy to see why Eddy fell for her...



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/gurutiek/helenaosta.jpg)
Helene as a nurse during the First World War


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/gurutiek/HELENEORLEANSLATER.jpg)
Helene in later life

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 12:38:19 PM
Helene has a very 'noble' face. Doesn anyone else think she looks a little like Queen Elisabeth of Belgium or am I crazy?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: TampaBay on September 29, 2005, 01:24:12 PM
Quote


Helene died in 1951 aged 79.


In whay year was she born?

TampaBay


Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Lucien on September 29, 2005, 01:32:28 PM
Both..... 8).....

On another note,wasn't this the Duchess of Aosta that how should I put it,thought she was more of a Royal then the Italian Royal Family?Helene de France,was by all means,a very proud lady.Maybe Amedeo,or Umigon,Cimbrio can enlighten us?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 01:44:16 PM
Quote

In whay year was she born?

TampaBay




She was born in 1871, thus 7 years Eddy's junior.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Alicky1872 on September 29, 2005, 02:20:33 PM
Quote
Helene has a very 'noble' face. Doesn anyone else think she looks a little like Queen Elisabeth of Belgium or am I crazy?


It's funny you should mention that, because I found this picture in a book, and swore it was Elisabeth, only to find it was Helene!  :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/gurutiek/helene1.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 02:22:51 PM
They do look alike! How odd! Were they related?

Here's Queen Elisabeth:
(http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/hw_elizabeth_01.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Alicky1872 on September 29, 2005, 02:32:34 PM
Yes, it is a very striking likeness!

Helene's mother was born a Spanish Infanta, while Elisabeth's was a Portuguese Infanta...maybe somewhere along the line they were related? Anyone else know for sure, to save me scouring the ENDLESS genealogy websites which make me go blind?!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 04:13:19 PM
They had a common great-great-grandfather in Charles IV of Spain - Helene through her mother Isabelle d'Orleans, whose mother was a Spanish infanta, and Elisabeth through her grandfather King Michael of Portugal, son of a Spanish Infanta. This is the nearest relationship I can find.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 29, 2005, 04:45:20 PM
In fact, the study of Helene's ancestors proves interesting.

Among them she could count:
-Charles I of Britain (through his daughter Minette)
-Felipe V of Spain and his wife Elisabeth Farnese
-Empress Maria Theresa and her husband Francois Stephen of Lorraine
-Louis XV of France
-Carlos III of Spain

Certainly 'royal' enough to marry Prince Eddy!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Marc on September 29, 2005, 06:45:23 PM
Are there any colour portraits of Helene d'Aosta?I have never seen any...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 30, 2005, 10:06:00 AM
Couldn't find any portraits, but here's a nice pic with a four legged friend:

(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bakaras.greyhounds/09.Duchesse_d_Aoste.JPG)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: umigon on October 01, 2005, 11:51:27 AM
Hélène and Emanuele Filiberto, Manolo, were separated by 1902. Their separation, however, was very friendly and they always remained in good terms. Manolo told a relative that he was once in a hotel with one of his girlfriends, when he heard familiar noise from a couple having sex in the room next door.

The morning after, he was told that it was his wife who was in that room. So he sent her a bunch of roses with a note saying: " I hope you had a great night, darling. Manolo". So we could say theirs was an open marriage!


After Manolo's death Hélène married, in 1936, Oddone Maria Campini (1872-1951), with whom she lived the rest of her life.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Alicky1872 on October 02, 2005, 06:27:25 AM
Quote
Hélène and Emanuele Filiberto, Manolo, were separated by 1902. Their separation, however, was very friendly and they always remained in good terms. Manolo told a relative that he was once in a hotel with one of his girlfriends, when he heard familiar noise from a couple having sex in the room next door.

The morning after, he was told that it was his wife who was in that room. So he sent her a bunch of roses with a note saying: " I hope you had a great night, darling. Manolo". So we could say theirs was an open marriage!


After Manolo's death Hélène married, in 1936, Oddone Maria Campini (1872-1951), with whom she lived the rest of her life.



:o :o Thank you for this story, Umigon! What a treat!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Alicky1872 on October 02, 2005, 05:58:12 PM
Maybe someone can tell me...where did Helene live between her separation in 1902, and her remarriage in 1936?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Ed_Hanson on December 28, 2005, 05:26:08 PM
As far as I know, the only reference to a possible union between the Tsarevich and Princess Helene d'Orleans comes from a diary entry by Nicholas on 29 January 1892.  Is there any other evidence?

"While I was talking to Mama this morning she made several hints about Helene, the daughter of the Comte de Paris, which puts me in an awkward position.  I am at the crossing of two paths; I myself want to go in the other direction, while Mama obviously wants me to take this one!  What will happen?"
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on December 28, 2005, 05:53:02 PM
Welcome to the forum!  :D
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on January 02, 2006, 05:11:13 PM
Philippe, duke of Orléans(1869-1926), seems an intringuing person.

He had a miserable childhood together with his siblings, dominated by a father who never gave up the hope of becoming king of France and a mother who phisically punished her children even when they were grown up.
(His sister Amélie, Q.of Portugal confirmed those abuses).

After the family had to leave ... again .. to exile, he presented himself in France to be incorporated in the french army, and he was immediately arrested and sent out of the country.

He made an unhappy marriage to his cousin A.D. Maria Dorothea of Habsburg.
The couple never divorced but soon they were living apart.

Was there a little "touch" of tante Clémentine in this wedding ? Clémentine was the match maker of the family, and Dorothea's grand-mother.

Philip had 4 sisters:
1. Amélie, queen of Portugal
2. Hélène, duchess of Aosta and 2ndly Mrs Campini
3. Isabelle, duchess of Guise
4. Louise, princess of the Two-Sicilies
and a brother:
Ferdinand, duke of Montpensier

I would like to know more about Isabelle, Louise and Ferdinand.
What were their main interests ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on January 07, 2006, 02:41:55 PM
Still no news about this family  ??? ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 08, 2006, 12:56:04 AM
There's information on Amelie and Helene on the Forum. A search would need to be done--I don't know if any have threads devoted to them.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 08, 2006, 01:01:48 AM
Philippe was apparently a keen photographer. He has some works that are in the Musee d'Orsay.

In autumn of 2000 the museum acquired at auction over 250 of his prints c.1905. Since Philippe died without heirs, his dynastic rights (as pretender to the French throne) were then conferred to his cousin Jean, Duc de Guise. Jean's son, Henri, was the latter possessor of these photographs.

Philippe was extremely well-travelled (India, Ethiopia, Arctic), a hunter, ornithologist and taxidermist. His photographs reflects this and several series show him taking part in the favourite pastimes of European aristocratic circles of the early twentieth century: horse-riding, hunting, water sports, picnics, motoring, near Palermo or near Seville, in the Guadalquivir delta or in Bulgaria, or on his second yacht, the Belgica.

If some pictures were probably taken by various members of his entourage, friends or relatives – his sitter Queen Amélie, wife of King Carlos of Portugal, being herself an amateur photographer - , most of the prints appear to be the work of the Duc d'Orléans himself. In these snapshots, taken with one of the small panoramic cameras by Kodak that appeared on the market from the years 1899-1900 onwards (probably the Kodak Panoram number 3 or 4) and that allow for angles of 110 to 140 degrees, he proved to be an unequalled amateur photographer. He manipulated the camera as a virtuoso, both horizontally and vertically, showing a sensitive sense of composition and construction of the picture in many successive planes, sometimes playing facetiously with the distortions resulting from the use of the wide angle lens.

Philippe is famous for returning to France in 1890, despite the exile laws that, since 1886, had kept the royal family at bay. Arrested as he turned up at the Paris recruiting office to comply with conscription (which explains his nickname of prince gamelle, "Mess tin prince"), he was sentenced to two years in gaol and expelled from French territory.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on January 12, 2006, 04:07:17 PM
Once again I would like someone to post a photo of Ferdinand, dk Montpensier, (brother of Philip) and of his wife marquise de Valdeterrazzo.

I would also appreciate one of Robert (1866-85) brother of Dk of Chartres, Colonel Ciampini, Hélène Aosta 2nd husband , the count of EU and his bro-in-law cd Czartorysky.

Thanks in advance

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: imperial angel on March 13, 2006, 12:00:04 PM
It is interesting reading the story of Helene's life. She was certainly very aristocratic looking, although not a ravishing beauty in the modern sense. I think there needs to be more info about her in books certainly. She played important roles in royal history, but it seems so often her name is mentioned in books and little else. That story about her, and Manolo is interesting. Sounds like it was not such a rigid royal marriage as some, even in discord! Anyway, I think she was a vague candidtate for Nicholas's hand, even though Prince Eddy was her true love at this time.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: La_Rainha on March 18, 2006, 09:23:40 AM
I read, that Eddy was Helenes great love!
The reason, that they didn`t get married, was a religian one! To be the Bride of Eddy, Helene has to change her catholic religion and the Pope forbit her changing the religion!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Grace on March 18, 2006, 09:35:50 AM
That's right, La Rainha...though I don't think it all got as far as the Pope...Helene's father refused to allow her to change her religion to marry Eddy so there was little more that could be done.  

I think they could have been happy together, though it's been suggested that she could have somewhat overwhelmed him as she was a very strong character.  Who knows?

I wonder if any photos were ever taken which included the two of them?  I don't mean as a couple but in a group or something?  Would be great to see...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 18, 2006, 03:37:11 PM
I believe the Pope was consulted on the matter. Regardless of the religious differences, I don't know (despite how QV was swayed) whether it would've ever been feasible politically. The daughter of the French pretender to the throne as Queen of England, when England and France were building diplomatic relations? I don't know if British politicians would've gone for it. I think I read in one of the Eddy bios (perhaps Aronson's) that Bertie wasn't too keen on it and that it was Alexandra who was chiefly pushing the match.

Not published, but perhaps in family archives somewhere, I would think there are photos of them. The Orleans family lived in England and were in close contact with the British royals. There are later pictures of Helene with the family after Eddy's death and her marriage.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on March 18, 2006, 06:10:36 PM
Quote
They had a common great-great-grandfather in Charles IV of Spain - Helene through her mother Isabelle d'Orleans, whose mother was a Spanish infanta, and Elisabeth through her grandfather King Michael of Portugal, son of a Spanish Infanta. This is the nearest relationship I can find.


They had lots of common ancestors but Charles IV of Spain was the nearest one.

http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=pt;em=R;ei=159413;et=A;color=;i=224377
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Grace on March 18, 2006, 08:25:57 PM
I have never personally read anything which said Bertie was not in favour of the union.

Theo Aronson's book says regarding Helene and Eddy that "the Prince of Wales was only too thankful to see his wayward son showing an interest in marriage at all...".

He apparently also suggested that Helene be allowed to remain a Roman Catholic provided she gave an understanding that the children would be brought up in the Anglican Church.

However, you're right ( ;))when you say that the petition did go as far as the Pope, as Helene went to Rome to consult him, to no avail.  :(
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 19, 2006, 06:26:59 AM
Does anyone know why the Pope disapproved? In the past, Pope's had been very amenable about things like this.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Agneschen on March 19, 2006, 09:17:00 AM
Quote
Does anyone know why the Pope disapproved? In the past, Pope's had been very amenable about things like this.


Hélène's father, the Count of Paris, very much opposed the match so I guess it was easy for the Pope to agree with him.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: imperial angel on March 19, 2006, 07:21:04 PM
Yes, it seems both her father as well as the pope opposed the marriage. I am sure it was easy for them to agree. I am sure Prince Eddy's parents did want him to marry a strong, responsible Princess as Helene undoubtedly was. However, for the political reasons mentioned, as well as the fact that English Princes are not supposed to marry Catholics, it is unlikely to have been seriously considered. Even a former Catholic Princess might have been unpopular in England, given it was still the late 19th Century.  Anyway, I am sure there are photos of them, if not published ones.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 22, 2006, 08:10:17 AM
Agneschen--what is the name of the book you refer to? That is a great picture!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 22, 2006, 08:19:10 AM
Quote
I have never personally read anything which said Bertie was not in favour of the union.

Theo Aronson's book says regarding Helene and Eddy that "the Prince of Wales was only too thankful to see his wayward son showing an interest in marriage at all...".

He apparently also suggested that Helene be allowed to remain a Roman Catholic provided she gave an understanding that the children would be brought up in the Anglican Church.

However, you're right ( ;))when you say that the petition did go as far as the Pope, as Helene went to Rome to consult him, to no avail.  :(


It seems that Bertie soured on the match much quicker than the rest of the family once it was made apparent the religious & political difficulties would be insurmountable. He was more pragmatic in this than his romantic wife who believed that love would triumph despite the obstacles. It has shades of the Vicky/Moretta/Sandro affair--the mother & prospective bride encouraging the match despite opposition while the potential groom seemed to grasp the outcome quicker and begin to detach. The affair stretched out for roughly a year and for many it was apparent it would not come off after so much time had elapsed with no positive movement.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 22, 2006, 08:23:24 AM
Quote
Does anyone know why the Pope disapproved? In the past, Pope's had been very amenable about things like this.


Most Roman Catholic princesses did not renounce their religion--at least in modern times. It was even a requirement for many Catholic monarchs to marry a Catholic princess or a non-Catholic who converted--like Ena of Battenberg did. Perhaps in the distant past there had been more examples as Popes were more political and could occasionally be 'convinced' (usually in the form of political favor) to countenance a match but even then it was unusual. That's why Catholic princesses tended to marry within a relatively small number of royal houses or kept their religion (ala Marie Orleans when she married Waldemar) and made a agreement to raise the children Catholic (or like Marie again, raised at least the daughter in the faith).

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: imperial angel on March 22, 2006, 08:29:33 AM
That is true. The Pope was unlikely to encourage a Catholic Princess to change her religion if it wasn't for any political purpose. And in this case the political purpose was non existent, so he woudn't have encouraged her. In past centuries, popes had been more allowing of this sort of thing, for only political reasons. But this was never true in the Helene of Orleans case, anyway.Once time passed without anything happening, as another poster rightfully said, then the idea of this match was gone. Religious differences where why royalty married in relatively small circles-protestant and catholic.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Agneschen on March 22, 2006, 09:41:19 AM
Quote
Agneschen--what is the name of the book you refer to? That is a great picture!


Mon Album de Famille by Prince Michel of Greece - a WONDERFUL photobook on the Orléans family but rather rare & usually very expensive. One of my favourite books about royalty.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on March 22, 2006, 12:22:03 PM
Are there any photos of Hélène with her 2nd husband, col. Campini ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Marc on March 22, 2006, 04:42:37 PM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/Aosta2.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Marc on March 22, 2006, 04:43:21 PM
This schould be the portrait of Helene...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 22, 2006, 05:40:51 PM
It is--it's one of the many portraits which can be found in Royalties of the Word. I discussed the book in the Pictures of WII and His Family thread in the Hohenzollerns for anyone who wants more info.

Thanks for the title Agneschen. If only one's budget was as big as one's wish list.  :)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Agneschen on March 22, 2006, 07:50:44 PM
Quote
If only one's budget was as big as one's wish list.  :)

Very true (sigh) ... My "to buy later" list keeps growing in the most atrocious way !
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 09, 2006, 12:51:05 PM
From an old magazine c.1894:

"Italy seems destined to have the most beautiful royal woman of the period for her queen. The successor to Her Majesty Margherita may very probably be Helen of Orleans...It is whispered that the Princess Helen will never be completely satisfied with her fate, as she cannot forget her first love, the late Duke of Clarence, whom she was prevented from marrying...If the Duke of Aosta succeeds King Umberto, or his cousin the prince of Naples, whom many believe to be doomed to an early grave, the legitimists will have good reason for setting up a wail at the degeneracy of the blood royal, for Aosta is only half royal; his mother, who left him large estates in Italy and Belgium, was a commoner, a Cisterna of the house of Merode....The Duke of Aosta is quite a handsome young felllow...He is an entertaining talker, an excellent sportsman, and an army officer of genuine merit; in short, he possesses almost all of the qualities that should make a young girl happy. If he does not speedily succeed in effacing the memory of the Duke of Clarence from Helen of Orleans' heart, it will not be his fault.'
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: imperial angel on April 09, 2006, 09:11:00 PM
Thanks for this. It's always interesting to read contemporary views of royalty then.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 22, 2006, 01:07:02 PM
Thanks again Agneschen. Is that one from the same book as the other? (I'm hoping not since that book is impossible to get!)  :)

Helene was really tall, wasn't she? There's a photo of her from King Manuel of Portugal's wedding walking with the Prince of Wales (David) and she just towers over him. Does anyone know how tall she was?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 22, 2006, 06:08:30 PM
Quote
Thanks again Agneschen. Is that one from the same book as the other? (I'm hoping not since that book is impossible to get!)  :)

Helene was really tall, wasn't she? There's a photo of her from King Manuel of Portugal's wedding walking with the Prince of Wales (David) and she just towers over him. Does anyone know how tall she was?

No, this pic comes from Casa real by Eduardo Nobre, a book on the Portuguese royal family.

I do not know how tall Hélène was but both her & her sisters seem to have been tall stately women. I have a pic somewhere of Hélène in old age with Crown Princess Marie Josée of Italy (who was herself tall) and the difference is striking.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 23, 2006, 10:09:33 AM
After they became unofficially engaged, Eddy & Hélène went & seeked QV's help. She wrote a memorandum on the subject :

As soon as I received Prince Albert Victor's message I had him come in. He walked into the room and said : "I have brought Hélène with me". He was holding her by the hand and led her to me, adding that they were so fond of each other and hoped I would help them. I said they knew it was not possible but he said she was ready to change her religion out of love for him. I looked at her and said it would be difficult and painful for her to do so.
She answered in the most pathetic way with tears in her eyes : "For his sake, only for his sake. Oh please help us !" He said the same and added : "She has been fond of me for years and I never knew". He then said he knew I would agree to help them. I promised to do all that would be in my power but that there would be difficulties. He said she had not yet talked to her parents about it and added : "I did not even tell Mama, I came to you directly".
This token of his trust and affection moved me. He led Hélène to the door then came back to me and said : "Alicky I did like a lot but she would not have me". He added that Hélène loved him and that she was ready to sacrifice her religion for his sake and that he would never marry anyone else. He also said that anxiety had made her grown so thin as she had gone through a terrible inner struggle about her change of religion : "Her father will be quite put out at first but it will calm down".


(My translation from French - I hope it is understandable)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 24, 2006, 09:54:15 AM
Great job Agneschen and totally understandable.  :)

That seems a little (understandable) fib on Eddy's part for didn't Alexandra encourage him to take Helene and go straight to QV to ask for her help?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 24, 2006, 05:30:53 PM
That is true. Alexandra who loathed the mere thought of a possible German daughter-in-law, did her utmost to throw Eddy & Hélène together. She sent Eddy to Mar Lodge where Hélène was staying with Eddy's sister Louise and hardly had he proposed that she packed them off to QV to ask for her consent and help.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: imperial angel on April 25, 2006, 11:27:16 AM
She did not want a German daughter in law, in spite of the fact that she herself had been rather German originally ( although technically Danish). Helene was defintely not from the pool of usual princesses that British royals married, and this is most likely the closest that a British heir to the throne ever came to marrying a Cathlolic, since James II, right? Helene judging from that photo was a tall, imposing woman, defintely.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: frimousse on April 27, 2006, 08:52:41 PM
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/isabelle.jpg)

Princess Isabelle of France
third daughter of Comte de Paris
1878-1961

Isn't she lovely ?
What happened to her ?
She was indeed a real beauty I'd say...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: frimousse on April 27, 2006, 09:18:40 PM
I know she was the wife of her cousin Duke Jean de Guise. She was such a beauty !! Was she happy with him ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: frimousse on April 27, 2006, 10:19:12 PM
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/isabelle2.jpg)

In her old days...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: frimousse on April 27, 2006, 10:53:57 PM


On this picture, she is absolutely gorgeous...

 
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/isabelle3.jpg)

Next to her: Princess Marie of Orléans, Prince Waldemar of Denmark's wife
Taken from " Comte de Paris, Mon Album de Famille" Michael of Greece
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: M. le Comte de Boir on June 17, 2006, 05:36:35 PM
Quote
As far as I know, the only reference to a possible union between the Tsarevich and Princess Helene d'Orleans comes from a diary entry by Nicholas on 29 January 1892.  Is there any other evidence?

"While I was talking to Mama this morning she made several hints about Helene, the daughter of the Comte de Paris, which puts me in an awkward position.  I am at the crossing of two paths; I myself want to go in the other direction, while Mama obviously wants me to take this one!  What will happen?"

I know of no specific refernces but in both "Nicholas and Alexandra" by Robert K. Massie and in "Alexandra: the Last Tsarina" by Carolly Erickson it is mentioned (extensively in Nicholas and Alexandra) that Empress Marie was very much in favour of Helene d'Orleans. I have never heard mention of anyone else as far as sugestions or alternitives to Alexandra.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eurohistory on July 02, 2006, 03:40:12 PM
Quote
Quote from: grandduchessella  link=1128008583/25#36 date=1143036617
Agneschen--what is the name of the book you refer to? That is a great picture!

Mon Album de Famille by Prince Michel of Greece - a WONDERFUL photobook on the Orléans family but rather rare & usually very expensive. One of my favourite books about royalty.

This is a wonderful book.  Quite rare to find nowadays, although not impossible.  We found a copy for a client of ours about three months ago.

Interestingly enough, many of the photos used by Prince Michael of Greece and his uncle, the late Comte de Paris, went to auction after Paris' death.  I was informed of the auction very enough time in advance, hoppe don a flight to Paris and went through all the lots.  Bids were placed and my archive ended up acquiring more than 1500 photos, I forget the exact number, from the private archives of the late Count of Paris.  Many of these photos were the ones used in MON ALBUM DE FAMILLE.

A well-known French author and I are in talks to see if we can publish a photo book on the Orléans, using not only these photos, but some more from both our collections.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on July 05, 2006, 01:02:11 PM
Mon Album de Famille by Prince Michel of Greece - a WONDERFUL photobook on the Orléans family but rather rare & usually very expensive. One of my favourite books about royalty.[/quote]

This is a wonderful book.  Quite rare to find nowadays, although not impossible.  We found a copy for a client of ours about three months ago.

Interestingly enough, many of the photos used by Prince Michael of Greece and his uncle, the late Comte de Paris, went to auction after Paris' death.  I was informed of the auction very enough time in advance, hoppe don a flight to Paris and went through all the lots.  Bids were placed and my archive ended up acquiring more than 1500 photos, I forget the exact number, from the private archives of the late Count of Paris.  Many of these photos were the ones used in MON ALBUM DE FAMILLE.

A well-known French author and I are in talks to see if we can publish a photo book on the Orléans, using not only these photos, but some more from both our collections.

Arturo Beéche[/quote]


Arturo

May be you can help with your archive.

I am looking for pictures/photos of:
1. Robert eldest son of Robert dk of Chartres
2. Ferdinand dk Montpensier and wife Marie-Isabella
3. Isabelle d'Orléans and husbands Bruno d'Harcort and Pierre Murat
4. Gilberto Gonzaga husband of Bianca d'Aosta
5. Robert conte de la Marche
6. Ernesto Martorell  husband of D. Teresa Orléans-Bragança

Thanks in adavance
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: pouvoir aux canard on July 06, 2006, 09:55:33 AM
Salve,

About Hélène de France (as he calls her) the poet and writer Gabriele d'Annunzio wrote before WW1 some verses.
These verses are from the poetic work "LAUDI DEL CIELO, DEL MARE, DELLA TERRA E DEGLI EROI" (POEMS FOR THE SKY, THE SEA, THE EARTH AND THE HEROES) - BOOK 4 : "MEROPE" - SONG 6 : "LA CANZONE D'ELENA DI FRANCIA" (quite 200 verses)

I give you a few ones: ... E quegli (che)...
                           ...su la branda sta sanguinolento
                           e taciturno, e i neri grumi biascia,
                           anch'egli ha l'indicibile sorriso
                           all'orlo della benda che lo fascia,
                           quando un pio viso di sorella, un viso,
                           d'oro si china verso la sua guancia,
                           un viso d'oro come il Fiordaliso.
                           Sii benedetta, o Elena di Francia
...ecc, ecc...

(I underlined :  ...  a face of gold as the flower of the lily.
                       Be blessed, O Helen of France...

I am unable to do more, I am afraid I am not a traducer, I know my english is very bad)


Also Hélène proved solidarity for his husband when, just after WW1, Aosta did some big politic's errors (f.e. dimostrating goodwill for D'Annunzio and his "adventurers of  Fiume"* that nor the Italian Royal Family nor the Italian govern appreciated...! They were all afraid for the possibility that Aosta was thinking to a golpe)

But D'Annunzio who HATED italian govern (Crispi, Giolitti, marquese De Rudini - father of a lady he loved - ecc, ecc) AND DO NOT APPRECIATE King Victor Emmanuel (he called him "the photographer" and often said "we need a king-soldier, not a king-photographer" ), again wrote a text about Hélène going at Fiume for the funerals of a young adventurer-soldier ... Immediately the King asked Aoste and wife to "break with any other ridiculous politic demonstration" and to travel for a while out of Italy.

C-C


* Fiume was a city from Istria, a former austrian-empire's region, that italians claimed to obtain as an italian territory during and after WW1. D'ANNUNZIO (the decadent poet who demonstrated to be very courageous during WW1) on september 1919, from Venezia were he lived, went with some soldiers, ex-soldiers, adventurers... to conquer Fiume and his territory (militarly governed by France, England, ecc,  a govern who was just waiting the end of Conférence de Versailles and his final peace treaty). For 492 days the poet governed in a curious and poetic way the city of Fiume... but it is not a Royal topic, and I cannot write the story of Fiume now  and here.

Note: about Italian Royals  during the years 1880-1910 it is interesting to read, (all availables on the net) pages of the Lady Layard’s Journal (f.e. in 1903 Regina Margharita invited her for a week at Stupinigi'Castel). Also Empress Frederick was a dear relative of Lady Layard during many years. Also Crownprincess Stephanie, when she travelled to Venice or London, after she married Lyonay, was related to Lady L. (there is a nice report from Lady L. about the daily life in their hungarian castle)... but Lady L. had very few relations with members of Austrian court.



 
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: pouvoir aux canard on July 09, 2006, 07:26:21 AM
Hélène, before WW1, created a school for Red Cross' nurses. During WW1 she directed Italian Red Cross (8560 sections)...

After WW1, on 1919, she created a foundation to help children of peculiars territories (Trieste, Gorizia, Fiume...) because she understood that here, there will be again (between Italy, Austria, Hungary, and new Yougoslavia) a future with fights, wars, misery... Into this foundation there is (it still exists with an another name : Opera nazionale di assistenza all'infanzia delle regioni di confine (O.N.AI.R.C.) ) a school for nurses, schools, holidays houses, etc.
 
After WW1 she dismissed from Red Cross and lived part in Italy and part in Africa visiting many lands, hunting, studying peoples.

After the death of his husband (1931) she married as said in this thread, and travelled again specially in Africa.

On 1947 she gave to the National Library of Napoli 11 000 books, 10 000 photographies, a huge collection of antropologic african items, trophies of hunted animals, 1 000 books on Africa, and the beautiful shelves and furnitures of his private library in CAPODIMONTE PALACE in Napoli were mainly she lived during his life. 2 others members of his italian family also loved Africa, but this will be a topic for an other thread...

C-C
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Guinastasia on August 10, 2006, 06:54:25 PM
Maybe I'm just stupid, but I've never understood why she was unable to convert to Anglicanism.  Why did she need her father's or the Pope's permission?  Of course the Pope would say no-but if she converted, what could he do, excommunicate her, which would be rather redundant.  Her father's, I can understand wanting his blessing, but the Pope's?  That's just strange.

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 10, 2006, 08:25:22 PM
Well...In those days. The Pope's illicial blessing is important for Catholics to marry a Protestant. When Henrietta Maria & Catherine of Braganza married King Charles I & II. The Pope gave his blessing in hope of converting the Britiah kings back to Catholism. Helene was only following tradition.  :P
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Guinastasia on August 10, 2006, 10:45:47 PM
I guess, I just think it's strange to ask his permission to convert to another religion.  If you do it anyways, what can he do?

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 11, 2006, 02:05:50 AM
It is how Catholics were taught. The pope is the head of the church, just like the father is the head of the house. Helene was refused on both fronts.  :(
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Agneschen on August 11, 2006, 08:34:46 AM
I guess, I just think it's strange to ask his permission to convert to another religion.  If you do it anyways, what can he do?



Converting without the Pope's permission would have meant excommunication. Crown Prince Ferdinand of Romania was excommunicated because he allowed his children to be raised in the Orthodox faith and suffered greatly from it. As for Pcess Hélène, such a thing was not thinkable in her milieu at the time. The French royal dynasty was a catholic one (King Henri IV was born protestant but had to convert to ascend the French throne upon which he is said to have said that Paris was worth a mass). Religion meant much more than it does nowadays. This may seem silly or strange to people who have not been raised in the Catholic religion and cannot understand what the Pope means to us as Head of the Church but I own that if such a thing ever happened to me (excommunication), I would feel it dreadfully. 
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 11, 2006, 08:39:38 AM
Yes it takes a Catholic to know what it means...(I was once I knew...)  ::)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Guinastasia on August 11, 2006, 12:22:55 PM
Actually, I was raised Catholic, I even had nine years of Catholic school, and attended a Catholic college, (although I no longer practice), but it still seems odd to care about excommunication if you're converting, to me personally.  Excommunication would be horrible...but I would imagine that a conversion is an automatic excommunication anyways.  You'd be part of a different faith, and therefore, the Pope would no longer be considered your boss, so to speak.

Oh well. 
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: pouvoir aux canards on August 11, 2006, 02:41:52 PM
I forgot to write that she was enthusiat of Fascism... She was also rather close to some fascist italian leaders and always ready to meet other european fascists... :-[  So we can say that she converted to Fascist Faith... ::)

Your amused

M. Canard
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 11, 2006, 09:02:16 PM
Maybe she was adicted to authoritaive figures like the pope, military leaders... ???
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 11, 2006, 10:50:32 PM
Actually, I was raised Catholic, I even had nine years of Catholic school, and attended a Catholic college, (although I no longer practice), but it still seems odd to care about excommunication if you're converting, to me personally.  Excommunication would be horrible...but I would imagine that a conversion is an automatic excommunication anyways.  You'd be part of a different faith, and therefore, the Pope would no longer be considered your boss, so to speak.

Oh well. 


Yes, but we're talking pre-Vatican II here. Excommunication--the most serious ecclesiastical penalty--would mean that she very well could've been shunned by her family. In addition, the Orleans family was a very Catholic one (Marie Orleans was granted the right to raise any daughters as Catholic as an agreement upon marrying Waldemar of Denmark) and it may have been like a death. Helene would've been completely cut off from the daily life of the Church, including sacraments. To give up your entire faith "just" for mortal love would be inconceivable to many. You find this in many religions, including the 'traditionalist' Catholic movement (ie those who adhere to the pre-Vatican II rules), Judaism, Islam, etc...where the person is just cut off from their family for switching faith. In Helene's case, and I suppose Nando's, I think the charge woud've been that of apostasy--the formal renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy.

Certainly, Helene could have defied her father and her Church--they may not have even excommunicated her--but I suppose her loyalty to the two overrode her love for Eddy. It would've been a lot of a princess to marry in defiance of her parents's wishes and for a Catholic to marry in defiance of her faith. They were very different times.

It is extremely rare nowadays for the RC Church to excommunicate anyone--conversion or not. They hold that, basically, 'once a Catholic, always a Catholic', if you received a Catholic baptism. You would be welcomed back to the Church at anytime, not exiled from it.

On the side note of Nando, I was unaware he was excommunicated. He received a Christian burial, didn't he? As one excommunicated that would've been denied him. Was Ferdinand of Bulgaria treated the same? He had made an agreement to raise the children Catholic and enraged his wife, Marie Louise of Bourbon-Parma, and the Catholic Church, when he decided to raise them Othodox as well.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 11, 2006, 10:55:22 PM
Maybe she was adicted to authoritaive figures like the pope, military leaders... ???

Or perhaps she, like other royals, saw in such a figures a guaranteed bulwark against revolutionary forces that would seek the overthrow of the monarchy.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on November 02, 2006, 09:57:19 AM
Thanks a lot.
I have found Ferdinand de Montpensier but never his wife.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Speedycat on April 09, 2007, 11:11:58 AM
Just found this charming picture of Helene, Duchess of Aosta with her sons Amedeo (standing) and Aimone.  Hope you don't mind me dragging up this old topic as I just had time today to browse through some old "Royalty Digest" magazines and thought this would be relevant to this thread..........

(http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/2986/heleneandsonsjp0.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: basilforever on April 12, 2007, 06:05:21 AM
In fact, the study of Helene's ancestors proves interesting.

Among them she could count:
-Charles I of Britain (through his daughter Minette)
-Felipe V of Spain and his wife Elisabeth Farnese
-Empress Maria Theresa and her husband Francois Stephen of Lorraine
-Louis XV of France
-Carlos III of Spain

Certainly 'royal' enough to marry Prince Eddy!

Yes that's right, I was marvelling myself through my research at how great her geneaology was and so suitable for Eddy. The legitimate descent from Charles I is particularly impressive for a Queen of Britain, if she had been allowed to become that. To think what might have been?!!!!  :P
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: basilforever on April 12, 2007, 06:31:56 AM
Has anyone ever seen a picture of Eddy and Helene together (by themselves or with others)? I haven't and would dearly love to see one.

Earlier in the thread someone posted some pictures of Helen with Eddy's family, but they are no longer viewable.

Could someone please post them again?  :)

Is this one of them?

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/The%20Last%20Album/HeleneWales.jpg)

Helene was so tall! Look how she has one arm around Alix and the other one in Toria's hands! It seems to me she is trying to show her solidarity with the Wales women symbolising their mutal grief at the loss of darling Eddy.

Such a beautiful picture it is.  :-*
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on April 14, 2007, 03:54:31 PM
How tall was Eddy ?

Those Orléans sisters were really tall.
Queen D.Amélia clearly surpassed King D.Carlos .
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 14, 2007, 04:58:30 PM
George V was about 5'7" and Eddy had a few inches on him. Yes, the Orleans women were tall, weren't they?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Kimberly on April 15, 2007, 05:08:56 AM
What an odd looking photo. I don't mean anything offensive by that comment but it looks to me that Alexandra and Toria have had their heads stuck on as an afterthought. :o
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: basilforever on April 15, 2007, 05:51:32 AM
Oh no it's just their high-necked dresses. Stunning photograph, breathtaking ladies all three of them. I think Helene might have been equal to Eddy in height - he was pretty tall.

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/OnlyEddy/More%20Eddy%20Pictures/eddygge5.jpg?t=1176634165)

See Eddy was quite a bit taller than George. :)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Linnea on April 15, 2007, 10:06:30 AM
Yes, the Orleans women were tall, weren't they?

Amelie, Helene and Louise were very tall as were their brothers Philippe and Ferdinand. Only Princess Isabelle was quite small. ;)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 16, 2007, 12:29:50 PM
Yes lovely photo from Prince Michael of Greece lavish picture book on the Orleans family. A jewel not to be missed... ;D
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Linnea on April 27, 2007, 11:26:40 AM
He had a miserable childhood together with his siblings, dominated by a father who never gave up the hope of becoming king of France and a mother who phisically punished her children even when they were grown up.
(His sister Amélie, Q.of Portugal confirmed those abuses).

 :o How horrible! Where did you get this from José?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on April 28, 2007, 10:28:29 AM
He had a miserable childhood together with his siblings, dominated by a father who never gave up the hope of becoming king of France and a mother who phisically punished her children even when they were grown up.
(His sister Amélie, Q.of Portugal confirmed those abuses).

 :o How horrible! Where did you get this from José?

In Queen D.Amélia's bios she refers that her mother often beated her children even when they were no longer that young.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: umigon on May 04, 2007, 07:14:13 AM
Ferdinand was a happy but introspective child who became addicted to morphine and alcohol in his years of youth anmd could never give up his addictions. He would eventually die of a drug overdose. His wife dominated him by giving him drugs.

From "Los Infantes de Andalucía" by Ricardo Mateos Sáinz de Medrano
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: gleb on June 08, 2008, 10:31:49 AM

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Italy/savoiahelene.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Italy/savoiahelene.jpg)


Can you help me recognize the people in the photo? I can say that there is Helene seated on the right and her husband between her and the other seated women. Is this old Lady Helene's mother? and the two girls near Helene are her two sisters? What about the old man and the other girl?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on June 08, 2008, 10:52:09 AM
The girl on the left, looking down, is Helene's sister, I believe.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: REMI on June 08, 2008, 04:56:01 PM
The girl on the left, looking down, is Helene's sister, I believe.

The girl on the left, looking down is Isabelle, future duchess of Guise. The seated old lady is countess of Paris.

REMI
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: REMI on June 08, 2008, 05:08:25 PM
....and I believe that the other girl on the right may be Amélie, but I am not sure at all

REMI
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Norbert on June 09, 2008, 05:05:52 AM
Seems strange that such a grand woman should have married Campini. How did they meet and what was their life together/ Did the Royal Family accept the marriage?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Linnea on June 09, 2008, 11:55:30 AM
Campini

Campini? What does that mean?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: REMI on June 09, 2008, 02:03:20 PM
Campini

Campini? What does that mean?

Colonel Otto Campini, of Italian Army, is duchess of Aosta's second husband. She maried him secretly in 1936 at Capodimonte five years after the death of her first husband.
King of Italy, Vittore Emanuele III and her two daughter-in-law were against this marriage.

REMI
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: beladona on June 09, 2008, 02:51:14 PM
Campini
Campini? What does that mean?
Colonel Otto Campini, of Italian Army, is duchess of Aosta's second husband. She maried him secretly in 1936 at Capodimonte five years after the death of her first husband.
King of Italy, Vittore Emanuele III and her two daughter-in-law were against this marriage.
REMI


And what about her two sons?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Norbert on June 10, 2008, 04:24:58 AM
many thanks Remi. Was the marriage always a secret with him being kept in the background? I wonder why she felt she had to marry him at all
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: StevenL on June 10, 2008, 06:27:38 AM
I wonder why she felt she had to marry him at all

Perhaps for the most normal and human reasons, having already accomplished all the "dynastic duties" required of her.
Perhaps like many older people, she lived long enough to do what she felt like for a change, and put her own happiness first.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Norbert on June 10, 2008, 07:30:55 AM
i see your point, but why marry him. One thing to keep a lover but another to risk the wrath of family and friends with a mis-alliance...no?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on June 11, 2008, 05:42:34 AM
Why did Helene D' Orleans separate from her first Husband twice?


http://books.google.com/books?id=e95MAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA45&dq=Helene+duchess+of+Aosta&ei=ZqlPSOToE4iujgGjtrmnCQ#PPA45,M1

An interesting comment about Helene d' Orleans

http://books.google.com/books?id=TDELAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA3-PA399&dq=Helene+duchess+of+Aosta&lr=&ei=RaxPSKzdFYfotQO

information is on the page as you hit the link!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Grace on June 11, 2008, 05:59:49 AM
Where in the link do you find the information?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on June 12, 2008, 04:29:47 AM
In the first link under the photograph of the Duchess of Aosta (p. 48) it states that She was reconciled to her Husband twice. I am curious as to the problems! I have read  that he was gruff but nothing of the nature of the Marriage. Unfortunately the Book doesn't give any further information just mentions they were reconciled due to friends and family (p. 49) ...but the second link relates a little of the character of Helene d' Orleans. 
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on June 12, 2008, 05:03:06 AM
The Wedding of Helene D' Orleans in the Newspaper....list of Royal Guests and some of the fabulous Wedding Presents.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E04E5DC103DE433A25755C2A9609C94649ED7CF
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on June 12, 2008, 05:30:50 PM
I have a picture of her in her wedding dress. It was lovely.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: gogm on June 13, 2008, 01:39:57 AM
Can this be posted?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on June 15, 2008, 04:38:32 PM
....and I believe that the other girl on the right may be Amélie, but I am not sure at all

REMI

It sure looks like Queen Amélie.
When was the photo taken ?

On a different note.
The article of the NY Times says that Hélène's brother could not be present "due to his recent accident".
What happened ? What kind of accident ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on June 15, 2008, 06:12:01 PM
Can this be posted?

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/000_0313.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on June 16, 2008, 08:20:00 AM
Never seen that one of Helene in her wedding dress! Thanks so much.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Grace on June 16, 2008, 02:48:09 PM
Beautiful photo of Helene in her wedding dress.  Thanks for posting GDE.  I wonder if she thought about what could have been with Eddy on her special day?  I'm sure she did!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Linnea on June 16, 2008, 03:47:50 PM
In Eduardo Nobre's book on Queen Amélie the woman on this picture is labeled as Princess Isabelle, Duchess of Guise, Amélie and Hélene's younger sister?  :-\
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on June 17, 2008, 01:29:14 AM
In Eduardo Nobre's book on Queen Amélie the woman on this picture is labeled as Princess Isabelle, Duchess of Guise, Amélie and Hélene's younger sister?  :-\

The wedding dress of Isabelle :

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/DukeJeandeGuise_wedday.jpg)

The style of gowns and hair-do are different. :)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: amedeo on June 17, 2008, 04:46:33 AM

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Italy/savoiahelene.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/gleb/Italy/savoiahelene.jpg)


Can you help me recognize the people in the photo? I can say that there is Helene seated on the right and her husband between her and the other seated women. Is this old Lady Helene's mother? and the two girls near Helene are her two sisters? What about the old man and the other girl?

Thanks in advance


(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Various%20Royals/House%20Savoy/4.jpg)
The same with the Countess of Paris, mother of Helen d'Aosta
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2008, 07:56:43 PM
One with her second husband ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on June 20, 2008, 01:29:41 AM
Photo of Helene d' Orleans in nursing uniform
fourth from left at the top http://www.nursepostcard.com/S2frontcover.html

Quote
TURIN, July 9. -- Turin is one of the warmest cities in Italy, but always charming. The other day in my wanderings I met the Duchesse d'Aosta (nee Helen of Orleans) in her motor car with her two boys. When the Duchess first came to Turin she was not at all liked by the people. She had a French household, and the Torinese thought that Italian ought to be good enough for her. [ END OF FIRST PARAGRAPH ]
Quote
rest of story follow link:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E01E6D91339E333A25755C2A9619C946297D6CF

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on June 24, 2008, 01:00:02 PM
Helene, 1895:

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/Gallaeciafulget/HelenofOrleans.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on June 24, 2008, 03:15:56 PM
Helene as a girlie:

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/Gallaeciafulget/HelenedeOrleanschild.jpg)

btw...anyone knows a picture of her sister Amelie as a girlie???I would be so happy finding a pic of Amelie...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on June 24, 2008, 07:46:32 PM
I posted one of a young Amelie and one of her as a teen on her thread.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 02, 2008, 08:42:21 PM
She looked so much like Eddy...It would be nice if she got married to him.  :(
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Grace on July 02, 2008, 11:55:31 PM
She looked so much like Eddy...It would be nice if she got married to him.  :(

She looked like Eddy?  Can't say I've noticed it myself...but I think they could have had a happy and successful marriage!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 05, 2008, 11:16:57 AM
Yes..compare that photo of Helene with the cover photo of the Cooke bio on Eddy...you can see the resemblence... ;)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on September 10, 2008, 12:12:12 PM

This thread is dedicated to Marie Isabelle d'Orleans (1848-1919), Infanta of Spain
- daughter of Duke Antoine of Montpensier and Infanta Luisa Fernanda of Spain
- spouse of Philippe d'Orleans, Count of Paris

All informations, pictures, portraits are welcome. I'm especially looking for some photos about the young Isabelle together with husband and/or children...

Some nice cdv's of my collection are coming soon.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on September 10, 2008, 11:35:42 PM
Wedding Day photograph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Marie-Isabelle_Comtesse_de_Paris.jpg

On May 30, 1864, she married her cousin Philippe of Orléans, claimant to the French throne as Philippe VII. They had eight children:

    * Amélie of Orléans (1865–1951). She married Carlos I of Portugal in 1886.
    * Prince Louis-Philippe Robert, Duke of Orléans (1869–1926), claimant to the French throne as Philippe VIII.
    * Princess Hélène of Orléans (1871–1951). She married Emmanuel Philibert, 2nd Duke of Aosta in 1895.
    * Prince Charles of Orléans (1875–1875).
    * Princess Isabelle of Orléans (1878–1961). She married Prince Jean of Orléans, Duke of Guise in 1899.
    * Prince Jacques of Orléans (1880–1881).
    * Princess Louise of Orléans (1882–1958). She married Prince Carlos of Bourbon-Two Sicilies in 1907. Through her daughter Maria Mercedes of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, she was the grandmother of King Juan Carlos I of Spain.
    * Prince Ferdinand of Orléans, Duke of Montpensier (1884–1924). He married Marie Isabelle Gonzales de Olañeta et Ibaretta, 3rd Marchioness of Valdeterrazo in 1921.

Forced to leave France, Marie-Isabelle and her husband first lived in England, where her Grandfather Louis-Philippe I had lived after his abdication in 1848. In 1871 they were allowed to return to France, where they lived in the Hôtel Matignon in Paris and in the château d'Eu in Normandy.

In 1886, they were forced to leave France for a second time. In 1894, her husband died in exile at Stowe House in Buckinghamshire. Marie-Isabelle lived in the Randan château in France, and died in 1919 at her palace in Villamanrique de la Condesa, near Seville.

[edit] References Généalogie des rois et des princes by Jean-Charles Volkmann Edit. Jean-Paul Gisserot (1998)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on September 11, 2008, 12:36:49 AM
Perhaps this Portrait could be moved over here...go down a few Posts

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2368.30
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: beladona on September 11, 2008, 04:27:02 AM

 I´am affraid, Isabella was not seen as a beauty...are there any pictures of her with her sisters?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on September 11, 2008, 05:09:19 AM

with mother Luisa Fernanda



Actually they look like sisters there. No wonder as Duchess of Montpensier gave a birth to Isabelle in 1848 when being only a 16 years old.

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on September 11, 2008, 05:26:21 AM

Isabella was not a beauty, but there is something special in her outlook- I don't know how to say, why I like her so much...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on September 11, 2008, 05:30:43 AM

my absolute favourite picture about her:

(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/jewels_syn/49.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 11, 2008, 06:41:56 AM
Dear Synnadene, thanks for sharing your pictures of Isabel, she´s one of my favourite infantas!
I hope you´ll enjoy this wonderful portrait of Isabel de Orleans Borbon as a child with her pet. It was painted by Federico de Madrazo and I think she´s very cute.

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/RetratoIsabelOrleansporFedericoMadr.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 11, 2008, 07:10:37 AM
These are two pictures from Oronoz, a spanish site...

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/IsabelhermanamayorMercedes2.jpg)

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/IsabelhermanamayorMercedes.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on September 11, 2008, 07:13:35 AM

Dear Yseult,
thanks for the cute portrait and the wonderful photos! :-)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 11, 2008, 07:49:46 AM

Dear Yseult,
thanks for the cute portrait and the wonderful photos! :-)

You´re welcome, synnadene. Since I have stolen you the Mayall cdv (I never had seen it before...it´s great!), you deserve the portrait and the pictures I posted ;)
I´ve another wonderful picture of Isabel...

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/IsabelCondesaParis.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on September 11, 2008, 08:06:26 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/royals/06.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: beladona on September 11, 2008, 08:28:33 AM
well known photo in wedding dress:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Marie-Isabelle_Comtesse_de_Paris.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on September 11, 2008, 09:18:52 AM

Piece of a wonderful session:

(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/jewels_syn/47.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: beladona on September 11, 2008, 09:43:14 AM
Wonderful pictures again, synnadene, especially the last one.
How was Isabellas feeling to Spain and?
And how was she as a daughter and as a mother? Are there any reminiscences or sources about her?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on September 12, 2008, 02:13:44 AM
Could someone scan in this Painting of Marie Isabelle?

http://www.louis-philippe.eu/img/comtesseparisjalabert.jpg

wonderful site:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.louis-philippe.eu/img/comtesseparisjalabert.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.louis-philippe.eu/&h=521&w=403&sz=42&hl=en&start=1&sig2=JdkM0N2bvrG7FohnbATknw&um=1&usg=__ImSY3abea-WX63jo7ZzsdZFMA_s=&tbnid=_ekn-0t1j_AflM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=101&ei=gxLKSOaTDZKu8QTu7IWpDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMarie%2BIsabelle%2Bcomtesse%2Bde%2BParis%2B1848-1919%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26newwindow%3D1%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DX
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on September 12, 2008, 06:16:53 AM
And how was she as a daughter and as a mother?

I read in the "Secrets of the Gotha" that Isabelle was quite a character, very manlike in her habits and manners, very strict with her children.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 12, 2008, 02:02:28 PM
Two images. I´m still trying to obtain the same ones in better quality, but, by now...

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/Montpensier.jpg)

They are the dukes of Montpensier at San Telmo gardens, with their three elder daughters: Isabel and Maria Amalia, and baby Cristina.

And this is a picture of Isabel with her husband Philippe and their children. From left to right: Helena, Louis Philippe, Philippe count of Paris, little Louise, Isabel countess of Paris, Ferdinand and Isabelle. The picture was taken when they were on holidays at Villamanrique de la Condesa.

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/FamiliacondesParis.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Mari on September 12, 2008, 08:55:02 PM
 Posted by: Svetabel

Quote from: beladona on Yesterday at 07:43:14 AM
And how was she as a daughter and as a mother?

Quote
I read in the "Secrets of the Gotha" that Isabelle was quite a character, very manlike in her habits and manners, very strict with her children.
Quote

Svetabel:
I have read that She smoked Cigars is that true? And also what other things would She do?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Terence on September 12, 2008, 09:38:17 PM
The picture was taken when they were on holidays at Villamanrique de la Condesa.

I'm curious...they were on holidays, did Philippe ever work?  Just how did an heir to a nonexistent throne pay the bills?  Inherited wealth, or did he ever do anything to contribute to society?

T
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 14, 2008, 05:02:37 AM
The picture was taken when they were on holidays at Villamanrique de la Condesa.

I'm curious...they were on holidays, did Philippe ever work?  Just how did an heir to a nonexistent throne pay the bills?  Inherited wealth, or did he ever do anything to contribute to society?

T

Terence, my english is not very fluent. Maybe I didn´t choose well the words to express properly what I wanted to express...Maybe, "on holidays" can be changed by "spending some time at Villamanrique de la Condesa"...I don´t know if Philippe was a young wealthy prince, but Isabel had a very good dowry and she inherited a lot of money after the death of her father, Antoine duke of Montpensier. I´m sure they had not problems to pay the bills.

A gravure showing Isabel:

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/BAMA/IsabellecomtesseParis.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 14, 2008, 05:23:17 AM
Another pic of Isabelle as bride...

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/BAMA/IsabelOrleansasbride.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on September 14, 2008, 06:23:20 AM
Posted by: Svetabel

Quote from: beladona on Yesterday at 07:43:14 AM
And how was she as a daughter and as a mother?

Quote
I read in the "Secrets of the Gotha" that Isabelle was quite a character, very manlike in her habits and manners, very strict with her children.
Quote

Svetabel:
I have read that She smoked Cigars is that true? And also what other things would She do?

Yes, she smoked cigars. Also she terrified her servants with her strict ways demanding from them discipline and tidy appearance. Seemed they felt themselves as recruits infront of their mistress.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on September 14, 2008, 01:16:51 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/royals/CountessIsabelleofParis.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 14, 2008, 02:48:38 PM
Wonderful pic, Sveta!!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on September 14, 2008, 02:52:54 PM

Grateful thanks Yseult for the bride-picture (lovely), and Sveta, your one is amazing too! Thanks!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 14, 2008, 03:45:41 PM
You´re welcome, Synnadene.

BTW, Isabel was not a beauty...I´m always impressed about her -scary- resemblance to her mother...but she had very pretty daughters.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 19, 2008, 02:42:15 PM
Synnadene, I think this is great ;)

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/Isabella1848.jpg)

(By courtesy of danjel)
;)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on September 20, 2008, 02:37:57 AM

Danjel, Yseult- this picture is one of my great favourites, although I had only a little detail about it...
Oh, my God, I've searching for this pictures for 5 years! Truly a treasure, grateful thanks! :-))
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 20, 2008, 03:39:46 AM
It´s a pleasure to help you, Synna.
;)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on September 20, 2008, 02:57:45 PM
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/france/isab20mont1.jpg)



(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/france/cc_31w.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on September 20, 2008, 02:58:51 PM
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/france/fe_31w.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/france/000_0312comtesseparisw.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/france/image821a5ctssorleansw.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 20, 2008, 03:00:26 PM
My God...
I like soooooooo much the first one, with the white dress.
Maybe can I beg you this picture with matermark to add it to my collection...? :-[
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on September 20, 2008, 07:51:59 PM
Sure--I can send you one.  :)

Here's what Jennie Churchill wrote of the Comtesse: 'was much liked....Tall and rather thin, with a pleasant smile and a desire to please, she affected sporting clothes and distinguished herself with a gun."
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2009, 10:37:01 PM
Photo of a latter Duchess of Aosta wearing Helene's emeralds

(http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/c3/07/2cab_1.JPG)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 02, 2009, 11:59:24 AM
I think that was Anne of Orleans ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on January 02, 2009, 12:27:06 PM
Photo of a latter Duchess of Aosta wearing Helene's emeralds

(http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/c3/07/2cab_1.JPG)

That's Margarita of Aosta, daughter of Anne D'Orleans.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 02, 2009, 02:48:23 PM
Thanks for the clarification. More modern royals are not my forte.  ;)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 13, 2009, 09:10:39 PM
(http://www.museocanonica.it/var/museicivici/storage/images/musei/museo_pietro_canonica/percorsi/sale_espositive/sala_v/elena_d_orleans_duchessa_d_aosta/42164-1-ita-IT/elena_d_orleans_duchessa_d_aosta_sqlarge.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 14, 2009, 11:11:06 AM
Nice burst.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: REMI on January 14, 2009, 12:01:05 PM
Nice burst.

For my part, I find that BUST particularly ugly. It makes me want to BURST out laughing!

REMI
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on May 10, 2009, 05:10:07 PM
Philippe, Duc d'Orleans and his wife Archduchess Maria Dorothea of Austria:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Hapsburgs/th_MC3A1ria_Dorottya_C3A9s_FC3BClC3B6p.jpg) (http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Hapsburgs/?action=view&current=MC3A1ria_Dorottya_C3A9s_FC3BClC3B6p.jpg)

Maria Dorothea on yacht:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Hapsburgs/th_MC3A1ria_Dorottya_a_kormC3A1nyos.jpg) (http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Hapsburgs/?action=view&current=MC3A1ria_Dorottya_a_kormC3A1nyos.jpg)

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Yseult on November 02, 2009, 12:13:44 PM
Not her best portrait, but I like it ;)

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/IX4.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: HSH The Duchess of Bourbon on November 02, 2009, 12:29:20 PM
Wonderful pictures, synnadene! But I´am affraid, Isabella was not seen as a beauty...are there any pictures of her with her sisters?

thiss is true..she is not a beautyy at all =[ ha

she has a very spanish look about her i think..
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: synnadene on November 03, 2009, 03:18:41 AM

i like it too, so nice, thanks!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 12, 2010, 08:52:48 AM
Isabelle and three of her daughters : Louise, Isabelle and Amelie

(http://i41.tinypic.com/wt87f9.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: THERRY on May 13, 2010, 10:59:15 AM
None of her three daughters look like their mother ! How lucky for them !!!
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 14, 2010, 08:51:47 AM
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/100514/temp/d8hvejav.jpg) (http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2159/d8hvejav_jpg.htm)

Isabelle with her daughters Louise, Hélène und Isabelle
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 14, 2010, 09:02:03 AM
Lovely!! its always nice to see new images of Isabelle d`Guise!

A family picture

(http://i42.tinypic.com/ih476v.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on May 15, 2010, 12:56:59 AM
Regarding her father refusing her to convert: He was not at all a political player / opportunist like his predecessors Philippe Égalité and Louis-Philippe, but rather like the Comte de Chambord a doctrinal "high-priest of legitism", who gave Orléanism a more reactionary flavour, wasn't he?

During his tenure even the Pope (Leo XIII) abandoned the monarchist cause, when the 1892 encyclical "Inter Sollicitudines" recognized the French Republic as a legitimate state that could be supported by Catholics.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 15, 2010, 10:09:14 AM
I think if he cared about his daughter's happiness he should have relented...
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on May 15, 2010, 11:04:51 PM
Maybe he cared more about her immortal soul than transitory happiness? I think we have to remember how religion, and conversion betwen religions (even staying within the Christian religon),  was looked upon then. It was a HUGE deal to convert back then and many people felt that you would be punished in the afterlife. I don't claim to know his reasons but I also don't think it's fair to state that he should have done this or that if he cared about her happiness. Why couldn't Eddy have converted and renounced the throne for so great a love? Why couldn't he have married her without her converting and their children just wouldn't have inherited? It's not like Eddy didn't have options himself. These situations were pretty difficult back then and a few relationships foundered on the rocks of religion, or nearly did. Even taking religion out of it, perhaps her father felt they would be ill-suited in the long-run, who knows? Maybe religion gave him something to hide behind for denying the match. There could be any number of reasons.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 17, 2010, 11:43:45 AM
I think he was just too stubborn and too religious to give his daughter's happiness real consideration. That is my thought of course. The fact that Eddy being the heir the throne to marry outside the religion was a non-goer. Both Ena and Alicky had to convert to marry rulers, so because of Eddy's position, Helene (not being a Queen Regent or heiress to a throne) had to be the one to convert. She was eager to do so, but both fathers (her father and the Holy Father (Pope)) stood in the way. I read that Helene really loved Eddy and was devesated when it became clear that the marriage was not going to happen.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 07:16:19 AM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/philipp22.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/3957532.jpg)

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 07:17:17 AM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/philipp23.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/philipp.jpg)

Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 07:17:53 AM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/philipp5.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/philipp35.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 11, 2010, 07:20:07 AM
The marriage that never happened. With her cousin Margeritte, later duchess of Magenta


(http://i35.tinypic.com/21e12xh.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 07:28:24 AM
Good that you mentioned her, I didn´t know who this woman was

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/philippma.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 11, 2010, 07:32:13 AM
She, beside of being sister of Marie, Princess of Denmark, was a lucky woman because she skipped marry him!

Has been told that Phillipe had an affaire with this lyric singer and she was the reason of the breakup of the engagement.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6538/lgdamenelliemelbabyunkn.jpg) (http://img844.imageshack.us/i/lgdamenelliemelbabyunkn.jpg/)

Madame Nellie Melba
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 07:38:37 AM
A beauty *cough*

Besides her and Maria, Margarethe of Thurn und Taxis was mentioned by her mother to marry him. So Margit escaped, too, thanks to Albert.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 02:48:23 PM
Isabelle

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/isabelle3.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/isabelle2.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 07:21:39 PM
Maria Dorothea

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/doro1.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/doro.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: THERRY on October 12, 2010, 05:46:47 AM
What beautiful pics Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on October 12, 2010, 10:39:11 AM
No problem! :)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9458/c2c7684f.jpg)

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8729/md1u.jpg)

(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8836/78717613.jpg)

as a young woman

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3898/md2r.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 17, 2010, 12:40:04 PM
Isabelle and three of her daughters : Louise, Isabelle and Amelie

 http://i41.tinypic.com/wt87f9.jpg 

From this same photoshoot

(http://i47.tinypic.com/4jvm9f.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 22, 2010, 06:09:29 PM
Did Count & Countess of Paris had a good married life ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 24, 2010, 07:19:00 AM
Isabelle, countess of Guise and Pierre orleans-braganze  in Henri & Isabelle s wedding

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8289/74252589.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/i/74252589.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 09, 2010, 09:11:53 AM



Its the duc of Montpensier.

(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh282/queenberenice/FerdinanddeOrleansduqueMontpensier.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2010, 01:55:31 PM
Any information on this Duke of Montponsier ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: REMI on December 12, 2010, 07:30:59 AM
Any information on this Duke of Montponsier ?

Eight child of Count and Countess of Paris, Ferdinand was born in 1884 in Eu. He died of drug overdose in in his Castle of Randan in 1924, only 29 months after his marriage with Maria Isabel Gonzalez of Olaneta y Ibarreta, 3rd marquess of Valdeterrazo. A year and half later, in 1925, the castle was burned down in mysterious circumstances. It was never rebuilt...

REMI
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2010, 12:36:38 PM
Quite strange isn't it ? Any photo or the image of the wife ?  :(
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on December 13, 2010, 02:39:15 AM
Duke of Montpensier had a romantic affair with GDss Maria Pavlovna-younger, when she was Princess of Sweden. They met in 1912 during the coronation of the Siam King.Dissapointed in love and life Maria had a crush on the Duke and he returned her feelings but all came to the end when Maria thought she would divorce her husband and marry Ferdinand. The Duke at once cooled down and advised her to be more discreet.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 13, 2010, 05:01:44 PM
Very interesting. Where did you find this information ? Would love to check it out.  ;)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on December 14, 2010, 01:24:39 AM
Very interesting. Where did you find this information ? Would love to check it out.  ;)

Russian bio on the GDss. The auhtoress had a chance to read Maria's diary.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 14, 2010, 04:54:16 PM
Do you have the name and publication of the book ? I can ask my Russian friends to get it for me. Thanks.  :)

Marie's diary is still in Russia ? Very interesting... ;D
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on December 14, 2010, 11:16:22 PM
Do you have the name and publication of the book ? I can ask my Russian friends to get it for me. Thanks.  :)

Marie's diary is still in Russia ? Very interesting... ;D

The book:

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/2685181/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/2685181/)

Maria's diary is not in Russia, but in the possession of her son's Lennart descendants.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 15, 2010, 01:11:51 PM
Thanks ! Appreciate it. I think Marie Paulovna is ripe for a bio in English.  :)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on December 28, 2010, 12:36:30 PM
Good that you mentioned her, I didn´t know who this woman was

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/philippma.jpg)


The Orléans were dreadfully endogamous.

Why did this marriage failed ? Did Marguerite refuse to marry her cousin ?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: José on December 28, 2010, 01:18:53 PM
[
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/Montpensier.jpg)

They are the dukes of Montpensier at San Telmo gardens, with their three elder daughters: Isabel and Maria Amalia, and baby Cristina.

And this is a picture of Isabel with her husband Philippe and their children. From left to right: Helena, Louis Philippe, Philippe count of Paris, little Louise, Isabel countess of Paris, Ferdinand and Isabelle. The picture was taken when they were on holidays at Villamanrique de la Condesa.

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/ISABEL%20CD%20PARIS/FamiliacondesParis.jpg)
[/quote]


Given the age gap, I would say the girl on the left is Pss Amélie, later queen of Portugal.

She had a more plump figure than her skinny sister Hélène.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 28, 2010, 07:03:56 PM
i say its Helene. Concerning your previous answer, i think the end of the engagement had to do with the Liasion that H Phillipe had with Nellie Melba.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 03, 2011, 06:05:11 PM
A young count of paris

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/224/78825349.jpg) (http://img543.imageshack.us/i/78825349.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 05, 2011, 07:49:53 PM
Someone was asking in another topic about Ferdinand , Duke of Montpensier `s pictures. Well...here a few

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4397/duquemontpensier.jpg) (http://img600.imageshack.us/i/duquemontpensier.jpg/)

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8573/duquemontpa.jpg) (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/duquemontpa.jpg/)

 

 
With his mother

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3474/mekong4.jpg) (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/mekong4.jpg/)

 

 



Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on March 18, 2011, 04:52:39 PM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Helene_v_Bourbon_Orleans_1252850_13x21.jpg)

Hélène
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on May 24, 2011, 04:30:17 AM
Maria Dorothea



(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/doro.jpg)

I think this is the whole photo from the session

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1913e.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Marc on May 24, 2011, 09:28:54 AM
There are just very few pictures of her on the web and this session is very glittering ;)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: REMI on May 24, 2011, 11:19:47 AM
Louis Philippe Albert of Orléans, count of Paris died in 1894, not in 1893

REMI
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Svetabel on May 28, 2011, 04:08:56 AM
Louis Philippe Albert of Orléans, count of Paris died in 1894, not in 1893

REMI

Thanks, Remi. I changed the thread's title.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Rani on July 26, 2011, 12:53:04 PM
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8438644m

With some photos of the family
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: cebi26 on May 01, 2012, 10:42:39 AM
Was the Count family wealthy?
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 02, 2012, 07:24:37 AM
Wealthy enough. They had many holdings.
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: KaiserinIII on July 27, 2013, 01:07:13 AM
Louise, wife of Prince Carlos of the Bourbon-Two Sicilies

(http://imageshack.us/a/img19/4425/3fkr.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img819/1713/p7e6.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img580/8866/e1wz.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img600/814/6sr4.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img89/2519/miz3.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img545/8829/midr.jpg)
Title: Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
Post by: Превед on January 22, 2014, 04:38:08 PM
Louis Philippe Albert of Orléans, count of Paris died in 1894, not in 1893

That's not the only error in the topic title. The way it's worded it is implied that there is a "de Paris" comital family and Louis Philippe a cadet thereof, just as if he in British usage were "Lord Lewis Philip de Paris". But as it's a substantive title with only one holder, he is styled "Louis Philippe (d'Orléans), Count of Paris", just as if he in British usage were "Lewis Philip (D'Orleans), Earl of Paris". After all one doesn't style his namesake "Duke Philip Mountbatten of Edinburgh"!