Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Alexander Palace => The Alexander Palace => Topic started by: Vladimir_V. on October 08, 2005, 01:07:30 PM

Title: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 08, 2005, 01:07:30 PM
Basement  (scale - 40m)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/podval1.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 08, 2005, 03:15:22 PM
Vlad:

This is the first I have seen of the basement plans.  

Thank you for posting them!

We have also been wondering about the full  2nd floor plans.

Can you post them?

We all very much appreciate your effort to fully reveal the palace.

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 08, 2005, 03:58:04 PM
I'd very much like to know the measurements of the family's rooms. Can anybody help? For those of you who have been there, even an estimate would be appreciated, just to give me a sense of scale.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 08, 2005, 05:47:59 PM
 According to the plan drawn up for the World Monuments Fund survey of the Alexander Palace the dimensions are:

the width of the Imperial Residence wing is 80' (the 'internal' width is indeed 74')
the External or Park facade length of the wing is 205'
the Internal or Courtyard length of the wing is 72'
the inside/courtyard width between wings is 245'
thus the total length across the Palace is 405' (80'x2+245')

In simple terms the Imperial wing is 80' X 205'.

The internal hall [ of the Imperial wing]  is approx ten feet wide.

Hope this helps....if not,  let me know.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 09, 2005, 10:05:19 AM
Quote
Basement (scale - 40m)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/podval1.JPG)




WOW.


i'm absolutely speechless...

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

okay....so i wasn't exactly speechless ;)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 09, 2005, 12:14:13 PM
Quote
I'd very much like to know the measurements of the family's rooms. Can anybody help? For those of you who have been there, even an estimate would be appreciated, just to give me a sense of scale.


SE, the east wing of the palace has been restructured considerably since the revolution, although some of the rooms are still intact.

But for example, the Maple Room - the family room when the IF lived there, has been divided into two separate rooms, instead of one huge one. The loft that used to be in the Maple Room is no longer there, the exit and entrance are in totally different spots. So everything looks very different than it used to... I had to walk around the wing several times on several different occasions until I finally figured out what the layout actually used to look like! And this is being there in person - unfortunately it would be even more difficult to imagine it just from having the measurements or even the floor plan... I had drawn out the floor plan of the first floor of the east wing (the part that's open to the public) for my project, but as I mentioned, it doesn't mean anything because it used to look very different when the IF lived there...
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 10, 2005, 01:27:12 PM
All plans of the AP, that Im going to post, were published in the book: Yakovlev V.I. The Alexander palace-museum in Detskoye Selo. Decoration.- Leningrad., 1928. The book consists of 560 pages and describes (all) rooms in the palace.
Its very unusual book for 1920th.
There is one problem: how does the size reduce, but doesnt impair the quality of the picture...
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 10, 2005, 01:55:45 PM
Quote
Well, there is one problem: how does the size decrease, but doesnt impair the quality of the picture... Are there any ideas?


Vladimir, are you talking about posting photos, or what exactly do you mean by this? If you are trying figure out how to reduce the size of the photos so you can post them, PM me and I will be glad to tell you how you can do it.

Helen
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 10, 2005, 02:39:06 PM
Quote

Vladimir, are you talking about posting photos, or what exactly do you mean by this? If you are trying figure out how to reduce the size of the photos so you can post them, PM me and I will be glad to tell you how you can do it.

Helen




i sincerely think, in this instance, big would not be a problem!!!    

please vladimir, post them big.   if plans get too small, it's very difficult to really make any detail out.  

besides, the plan of the basement that you posted was a wonderful size!!!    not too small....not too incredibly big, either.

JUST RIGHT!


there are so many of us that VERY MUCH appreciate your generosity and are waiting breathlessly for the other plans  ;D

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 10, 2005, 04:40:23 PM
Vladimir:

Brian is the name of the man who made the post just above this one.  He and I are most interested in plans of the Alex.  palace and other palaces. As you can tell Brian and I are most excited and happy when we have new plans.

If the book you reference has any cross-sections of the palace please post them also.  

We all are waiting with anticipation for a look see at these plans.

[I posted the approx. dimentions of the Alex palace on this thread.  See Oct. 8th post above.]

Douglas :D
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 10, 2005, 05:44:23 PM
Vladimir,
I'm another person who woulld be thrilled if you could post additional plans of the AP.
It would be wonderful if we had plans of the second floor especially.  The main floor has been well documented.
Thanks again.
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 10, 2005, 06:02:14 PM
Vladimir, does the book mention anything about the tunnel that lead from the kitchen building into the east wing? I was told by several people that it still exists today but is used mostly as storage space. I was wondering where exactly is the entrance from the tunnel is in the east wing? Thanks.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 10, 2005, 09:36:11 PM
Quote
Vladimir, does the book mention anything about the tunnel that lead from the kitchen building into the east wing? I was told by several people that it still exists today but is used mostly as storage space. I was wondering where exactly is the entrance from the tunnel is in the east wing? Thanks.




(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/places/alexpaltunnel.jpg)

i never can remember which direction is which....
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 10, 2005, 09:41:09 PM
Yes, this looks right. The kitchen building is about 100 feet to the left of the left wing of the palace, so the way this is marked it looks like the tunnel would be in that general vicinity. I can't really tell under whose rooms it leads - it looks like numbers 34-35 ???
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 10, 2005, 09:48:12 PM
Brian:

The "tunnel"  you noticed runs directly South-East towards the Kitchen Building that fronted on the street.

This kitchen tunnel appears to be about 200 feet in length.

The tunnel  entrance appears to  be under the Empress' Formal Reception Room.

To get to the tunnel you would go into the basement and you would then enter the tunnel by going DOWN a flight of stairs that are shown on the plan of the basement.

Maybe someone can find the stairs that lead to the basement.  Brian, can you find the stairs?

On second thought it is possible that the food was brought up by a dumbwaiter.  There might be a security problem if an actual stairway had access to the Imperial suite at that part of the palace.  Something to think about.  

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 10, 2005, 10:53:35 PM
Quote
The tunnel entrance appears to be under the Empress' Formal Reception Room.

Yes, this is what someone in the palace told me, that the tunnel ran to Alexandra's room where the family often ate, so it was convenient to bring the food in from the kitchen. I understand that this tunnel was added to the AP after Nicholas and Alexandra moved in and made the left wing their home.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 11, 2005, 12:48:17 PM
The second floor.

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/second1.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 11, 2005, 01:42:44 PM
Vladimir,
Thank you so much.  This is a plan that I have been waiting for years to see!  
You are truly generous to share this with those of us who love the Alexander Palace and want to learn more and more about it.
This will add to my knowledge, but I know I will now want to know how all the rooms on the Right Wing Second floor were used.
Thanks to Bob and the AP main site, we know quite abit about the Children's wing.
I can't wait to see Brian's reaction!
Thanks again.
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 11, 2005, 01:45:33 PM
Yes, thank you, Vladimir. Do you know if it still is possible to get this book? I am assuming it's now out of print...
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 11, 2005, 03:27:10 PM
Quote
The second floor.

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/second1.JPG)




again, i feel i must say:   WOW.



my jaw literally dropped when i saw the plan for the 2nd floor.    


seriously.

a mere "thank you, so much" just doesn't seem quite enough.


i don't know if you realize it, vladimir, but many of us here have been struggling with the finer-points of begging, in what was, up to now, a futile attempt to get these kinds of plans posted.    those who have them, seem/ed unwilling to share them.    you have managed, in two fell-swoops, to out-class them all.    it may not seem like a big deal to you, but to those of us who have been asking & pleading for a very long time to see plans like these, your posts are beyond marvelous.    

you have made not only my day, but my week!!


given the glorious detail these plans show, i would welcome the opportunity to see what interesting but, as yet, unseen, things the ground floor plan might show...(if you don't mind me being presumptuous by asking if you could post it?)    are any other buildings included?   or is it focused on the Aleksandr palace alone?


just let me say, once again, you have made many people very, VERY,
VERY happy!!    


Thank You, SO Much!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 11, 2005, 04:15:54 PM
Someone asked about the "Glass Roofed Upper Corridor"

I think you can find it by looking at the Plan of the Second Floor.

Find the Semi-Circular Hall in the top middle of the plan.  Look to the lower left corner and you see two rooms that have a "no Window" corridor that surrounds them.  This is, I believe the "dark upper corridor" that is written about.

I see that Brian was his usual calm  'low key' self when he saw the  plan of the 2nd. floor.  :)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Arleen on October 11, 2005, 07:39:28 PM
Vladimir, you are so wonderful for sharing these plans with us!!!  I appreciate it more than you will ever know.  Like Brian said this has been such a long time in coming.....maybe we don't beg to good!

The book must be a miracle of information.  It really surprised me that the Commies would even publish such a marvel in the 1920's seeing the abuse the AP was experiencing by then.  

Would there be any unusual pictures that you could share with us?  Wouldn't it be wonderful if someone would reprint it

Thanks again,
..Arleen
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 12, 2005, 06:03:36 AM
Douglas,
I am confused as to what room you are referring to as the "Music Room."  On the floorplans listed on the Palace Main menu of this site, no room in either N&A rooms or the Parade rooms is referred to as a Music Room.  Could you clarify using the numbers on the AP floorplans?
Thanks.
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Ortino on October 12, 2005, 08:41:37 AM
Quote
Douglas,
I am confused as to what room you are referring to as the "Music Room." On the floorplans listed on the Palace Main menu of this site, no room in either N&A rooms or the Parade rooms is referred to as a Music Room. Could you clarify using the numbers on the AP floorplans?
Thanks.
Bob G


The Music Room was on the children's floor and therefore not part of either N&A's rooms or the Parade Rooms.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 12, 2005, 08:50:37 AM
Could you identify what room on the second floor plan that Vladimir posted is considered "The Music Room."
I have looked at my old information including the plan and rooms of the Children's floor from the AP site many years ago, and there is no room identified as the "Music Room"
Thanks.
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 12, 2005, 11:42:01 AM
Sorry for the error.  Sometimes I think I am still back at Buckingham Palace in London.

The room I  refer to is called the Semi-Circular Hall in the Alexander Palace..  

On the Plan of the Second floor at the center top of the plan you can see that the 'upper part ' of the Hall is shown.

The Semi-Circular Hall or room is two stories in height.

The architect chose not to add a few interior windows along the 2nd floor hallway.  If he had,  this would have given at least some light coming up from the Semi-Circular Hall and into that hallway.

The  other four 'Parade Rooms' are also two stories in height and are shown on the 2nd Floor Plan.  .
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Ortino on October 12, 2005, 01:08:31 PM
Quote
Could you identify what room on the second floor plan that Vladimir posted is considered "The Music Room."
I have looked at my old information including the plan and rooms of the Children's floor from the AP site many years ago, and there is no room identified as the "Music Room"
Thanks.
Bob G


I am not sure of the exact location of the Music Room since I've never seen a good floorplan like the one above before, but I'm pretty sure it's either #36 or #37. There was a series of maid's rooms across from the children's rooms, so that took up much of the right side of the wing.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 12, 2005, 04:35:18 PM
I think the music Room is above the New Study since I remember reading somewhere that Nicholas could hear the children practicing above him
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 12, 2005, 04:39:24 PM
Just curious but is there a key to what teh rooms were used for I notice they are numbered????????????
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Ortino on October 12, 2005, 05:58:42 PM
Quote
I think the music Room is above the New Study since I remember reading somewhere that Nicholas could hear the children practicing above him


If the Music Room was above the New Study, then my guess wouldn't be far off. That would make it at #33/34. However, if my guess if right and it's either #36 or #37, then it would be above the Tsar's Work Study or the Tsar's Reception Room, two rooms he would have undoubtedly used frequently. Here's a labeled floorplan of the first floor for comparison.

http://www.alexanderpalace.com/palace/imperialmap.html

The problem londo is that there is no key. If there were, finding the Music Room or any other room wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 12, 2005, 07:31:15 PM
With the first floor plan and actually any floorplan I have seen there are numbers to the rooms...someone SOMEWHERE must have a key to the numbers....Here's hoping  ???
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 13, 2005, 12:07:02 AM
Quote
With the first floor plan and actually any floorplan I have seen there are numbers to the rooms...someone SOMEWHERE must have a key to the numbers....Here's hoping ???



the owner of this site, Bob Atchison, has that information (as well as similar plans). he knows the function of all the rooms.

several of us have asked him to identify the rooms of the right wing on the ground floor....for whatever reason, and as far as i know, he hasn't yet.

perhaps, if you ask, he may help clarify the situation by helping to identify the 2nd floor rooms (and maybe the basement rooms)?


however, i'm certain he's not the only member here that has the information we seek....

c'mon people, it's time to "put-up, or shut-up"..... LOL

really though, we're here because we all share an interest (from curiosity to passion) in this historic structure & what it represents.

if you have info that could help, please, spare the time, make the effort, take the trouble and demonstrate some generosity -- like vladimir has already.

sharing & exchanging information can only aid in making this site, & forum, better than it already is.


Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Gavin.O on October 13, 2005, 10:48:17 AM
Quote


the owner of this site, Bob Atchison, has that information (as well as similar plans). he knows the function of all the rooms.



This quote comes from this website's section about the classroom on the children's floor:

"There were two classrooms for the Grand Duchesses in the palace. The second was over Nicholas's Reception Room and was used for music and dance instruction."

That would make the Music Room #37 on the floor plan.

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/girlsclassroom.html


--Gavin.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: gleb on October 13, 2005, 01:53:37 PM
JUST  THANKS SO MUCH!!!!

Do you also have a clear ground floor?

Thanks again
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 13, 2005, 02:03:55 PM
Gavin O.,
There used to be a plan of the Children's floor posted in the AP main menu. If my copy is correct, room #37 was listed as Marie and Anastasia's classroom. However, it could have had the piano and therefore was used for music.
All the other rooms on the right side of the corridor (#29-36) were idenitfied as belonging to various maids.
The following is where room 37 is discussed:
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/maids.html
Bob G.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Nadezhda Edvardovna on October 13, 2005, 02:27:19 PM
I've printed out the second floor and I'm trying to develop a key to the numbers by looking for textual clues.  But I've found an unclear bit: on the second floor, room 31 is attributed to Anna Utkina and also to Alexandra Tegleva.  Surely they did not share it, especially as Tegleva was the head maid and therefore had senority and presumably better lodgings.

Dimensions of family rooms: well, inside the width is 74 feet, and elsewhere we're told the corridors are about 10 feet wide.  That leaves 64 feet of space.  On the plans the rooms appear roughly equivalent in width on either side of the corridor, thus giving 32 feet in width.  Which is rather a large room!

Thank you for this information--I've been wanting the Palace's dimensions since reading Michael Gray's book in which the purported Alexei claims that Buckingham Palace is small compared to the AP.

Nadezhda
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 13, 2005, 03:15:32 PM
Nadezhda,
I  have room 31 as Anna Yakovlevna's room.  Is this the same person as Anna Utkina?  If you notice there is a large ante-room in front of it that may have been a sitting room.  That would make each room about 15.5 feet or thereabouts. Not too large.  Also, room 32 ( I have as Nurse Alexandra Tegleva's room) has a separate entrance from the corridor.  It looks like rooms  30 ( I have it as Chambermaid Elizabeth Ersbergs room) and 31 shared an entrance. Room 29 which I have as the Chambermaid's bathroom is separate.
Doing some quick (and very rough) calculations, I would assume room 31 itself and the anteroom are each about 12 x 15 feet.
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 14, 2005, 12:36:51 PM
The same plan of the basement.

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/podval2.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 14, 2005, 12:39:31 PM
Thanks all for the good words. I think we have to address most of the compliments to
the architect V.I.Yakovlev (1884-1950) who found the opportunity to publish this detail book.
Dr Vsevolod Yakovlev (after WWII - Full Professor) was the main curator of the AP in the early 1920th ,
then the director of the Tsarskoe Selo and the Pavlovsk museum (1924-1931).
All of his four books are interesting and, unfortunately, rare.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 14, 2005, 12:41:48 PM
Brian

The book has the plans of the AP only. But his previous book (that was published in 1927) has plans of the Kitchen building, the pavilions and one cross-section of the AP.
There are also many photographs (porcelain, paintings, jewels), but the quality of the print is low.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 14, 2005, 12:43:11 PM
Helen

Only 1000 copies were printed. I`ve never seen this book in the sale.

You asked about the tunnel. The entrance is #36.
One of the Yakovlev`s book describe this tunnel and the underground pool
in the Alexander park, which was made to prevent the leak of the water
in the AP in the case of the problems with the city water.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 14, 2005, 12:44:32 PM
The entresols (between the first floor and the second floor).

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/entresol1.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 14, 2005, 01:54:05 PM
Vladimir,
Thanks for the entresoles.  Gives us a little more knowledge.

Any reason why you re-posted the basement plan?

While I would not ask more of you because of your great generousity in posting these plans I notice that every room is numbered.  Is there any kind of key or list that describes or names the rooms according to their numbers on the plan?

If you wanted help with creating or translating such a list, I would be more than willing to somehow help you to do it.  
I know others would love a key like this to understand the functions of the rooms better.

If not, you already have all our gratitude for posting what you've shared, and it is a wonderful gift you given to those of us who love the AP.

Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 14, 2005, 03:30:52 PM
I was just reviewing the Entresols plan and was curious as to why it was showing window openings in these rooms.  My speculation is that whom ever drew up the plan used either the first or second floor plan and just drew in the rooms in reference to the other floors.
I ve looked at pictures of the palace exterior and there are certainly no windows shown between floors 1 and 2.
Strange, huh?
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 14, 2005, 03:34:36 PM
Quote
Helen

Only 1000 copies were printed. I`ve never seen this book in the sale.

You asked about the tunnel. The entrance is #36.
One of the Yakovlev`s book describe this tunnel and the underground pool
in the Alexander park, which was made to prevent the leak of the water
in the AP in the case of the problems with the city water.


Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 14, 2005, 03:37:25 PM
By "entresols" do you mean the lofts that were in the large room on the first floor that was used as a family room (it had been divided into two parts after WWII), and which connected to Nicholas's New Study (where the hallway now is)?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 14, 2005, 04:27:15 PM
  Helen:  

In the United States we would use the  fancy word 'mezzanine' rather than 'entresol' to describe these spaces between the first and second floors.  Some of these appear to be open to the first floor and some may have been closed off.

Today one would generally  use dotted lines, cut slashes, and various thickness of  lines to show clearly what  is above, middle and below.  Or one could have a seperate sheet of drawings for each floor level.   It is a bit tricky to show all of this on just one plan sheet.  

Yes, Bob, it does appear that the person who prepared the drawings used the first floor plan to clarify the situation of the various mezzanine floors within the palace. Very interesting, indeed.

Also one does not enter the tunnel to the kitchen from the room next to the exterior wall of the basement but you enter the tunnel from the room that is to the right of the descending stairs that are shown on the plan.

The kitchen tunnel is actually  what might be considered a second basement level.

Are we having fun or what.

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 14, 2005, 05:14:36 PM
Quote
Helen:

 In the United States we would use the fancy word 'mezzanine' rather than 'entresol' to describe these spaces between the first and second floors. Some of these appear to be open to the first floor and some may have been closed off.


Hmmm... I am wondering if I am thinking of something totally different. I saw some pre-WWII pictures of what some of the rooms on the first floor looked like before they were reconstructed - including the family room (Maple Room?), and it had a huge loft, sort of like the one in the restored Nicholas's New Study:

(http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/1272/newstudy8yp.jpg)

Is this what is being referred to as "entresol" or "mezzanine", or something totally different? Thanks again!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 14, 2005, 06:02:53 PM
Yes, Helen , the photo you post is exactly what we are talking about when we use the term mezzanine or entresol.

Actually I have never heard the word 'entresol' before today.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 14, 2005, 06:13:48 PM
Quote

 Actually I have never heard the word 'entresol' before today.


I think it's French, but I thought it meant "attic"...

Quote
Yes, Helen , the photo you post is exactly what we are talking about when we use the term mezzanine or entresol.


I guess I call it a "loft"  :D. In any case, yes there was a mezzanine or a loft in the Maple Room, which I think is the official name for the family Room. The loft was taking up the space where the hallway now is. The hallway was the extention of the Maple Room and the ceiling in the hallway is where the loft was. And it somehow connected to the Empresses Boudoir if I remember correctly, and from there to Nicholas's New Study which had the same type of a loft. And this is how the Empress used to sneak to Nicholas's study unseen, and hid in the loft to listen in on his conversations with the officials  ;).


Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 14, 2005, 07:17:41 PM
Helen:

The plans show  that if one were in the Maple Room [part of the Empress's domain] you could easily access the New Study  [the domain of the Tsar] by going up the stairs inside the Maple Room which leads to an upper hallway [New Study Balcony].  Once you are in the  New Study Balcony [which is directly above the main hallway of the first floor] you then have access to  the Tsars' 'New Study'.   All very Byzantine and exotic.

* Yes, 'entresol' is French and means ' a space between the first and second floors.  Sol = floor.  entre = between.

That's the language lesson for today!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 14, 2005, 09:00:13 PM
Quote
Helen:

The plans show that if one were in the Maple Room [part of the Empress's domain] you could easily access the New Study [the domain of the Tsar] by going up the stairs inside the Maple Room which leads to an upper hallway. Once you are in the short mezzanine hallway [which is directly above the main hallway of the first floor] you then have access to the mezzanine inside the Tsars' 'New Study'.
 


Yes, that sounds right, Doug. I have all this in my notes somewhere from when I talked to the curator at the AP for my research study, but I have to dig through them. But I do remember that it was something like this. When they showed me around, they even let me go up the stairs about half way in Nicholas's study to see what it looked like upstairs (the part where Alexandra sneaked to listen in :D).
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on October 15, 2005, 06:10:24 AM
In the corridor, it is still possible to see where the ceilling was lowered to accommodate the passage between the Maple Room and the New Study.    

I have been in the New Study entresol.   There is a door which would have led to the passage.   I imagine this has been shut off given the Maple Room entresol has been destroyed.

tsaria
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 15, 2005, 11:59:05 AM
Quote
In the corridor, it is still possible to see where the ceilling was lowered to accommodate the passage between the Maple Room and the New Study.
tsaria


Yes, that's right.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 15, 2005, 01:01:01 PM
The translation of the names the mezzanine rooms:

1. The Aleksandras Wardrobe (not extant)
2. The Tsar`s Wardrobe (not extant)
3. The Bathroom (not extant)
4. The room of the Tsar`s valet (not extant)
5. The room of the wardrobe mistress (not extant)
6. The Balcony of the Maple Room (not extant)
7. The Balcony of the Tsar`s New Study (extant)
8. The room for the Aleksey`s things
9. The room of the Maria Fyodorovna`s wardrobe mistress
10. The Maria Fyodorovna`s Wardrobe
11. The room of the servants
12. The room of the servants
13. The room of the Elizabeth Fyodorovna`s servant
14. The room of the duty officers help (in Russian: sluzhitel dezhurnogo fligel-ad`yutanta)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 15, 2005, 06:06:20 PM
Hi Vlad:

Thank you for posting the key to the mezzanine!  Room number  8 must have been a treasure chest of toys.

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 15, 2005, 07:11:11 PM

Bob writes:
  I was just reviewing the Entresols plan and was curious as to why it was showing window openings in these rooms.  My speculation is that whom ever drew up the plan used either the first or second floor plan and just drew in the rooms in reference to the other floors.
I ve looked at pictures of the palace exterior and there are certainly no windows shown between floors 1 and 2.
Strange, huh?
Bob G

Doug here:

There actually are little windows in some of the mezzanine rooms.  If you look carefully at some exterior photos you can see that the upper half of the tall two storey  windows are divided into a lower solid panel and an upper window for the mezzanine room.

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on October 16, 2005, 01:09:23 AM
The entresols (between the first floor and the second floor) and the translation of the names the mezzanine rooms from Vladimir_V.

(http://img437.imageshack.us/img437/811/entresol237pd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pers on October 16, 2005, 09:40:34 AM
Vladimir,

Could you please post the main floor of the Alexander Palace as it appears in this book?  It is probably exactly the same as the one on the website, but just for the sake of the scale that appears at the bottom of the plans.

Also can you make out whether the scale is in feet or arshin or sazhen or meters?

Thank you SO MUCH in advance.  I really want to say that it is wonderful that you are so kind to share all of this with us lesser mortals!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 16, 2005, 12:22:00 PM
Quote
Brian

The book has the plans of the AP, the Kitchen building, the pavilions and one cross-section of the AP.
There are also many photographs (porcelain, paintings, jewels), but the quality of the print is low.



i, just now, noticed that you mentioned "jewels".    what sort of jewels are pictured in the book?   i'm curious because i was under the impression that whatever jewels may have been left behind had been removed to moscow by the time of the books publication.    i'm intrigued....  
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 16, 2005, 02:02:05 PM
The second floor

The Children`s Part

1. The Passageway
2. The Buffet
3. The Aleksandra`s Wardrobe
4. The hallway with the jut of the elevator (The Glass Roofed Upper Corridor)
5. The Entry
6. The Dining Room
7. The Drawing Room (The Girl`s Reception Room)
8. The Elder Girls` Classroom
9. The Bathroom
10. The Elder Girls` Bedroom
11. The Junior Girls` Bedroom
12. The Aleksey`s Playroom
13. The Aleksey`s Bedroom
14. The Derevenko`s Room
15. The Aleksey`s Classroom
16. The Aleksey`s Bathroom
17. The Music Room (the Cinema Room or the Teacher`s Common Room)
18. The Aleksey`s Hallway
18a. The Hallway behind the Cinema Room
19. The Aleksey`s Reception Room
20. The Aleksey`s Buffet
21. The Servants` Bathroom
22. The Gilliard `s Bathroom
23. The Gilliard `s Study
24. The Gilliard `s Bedroom
25. The room of the doctors on duty
26. The Sailor Nagorny`s Room
27. The room of the Gilliard`s servant
28. The Hallway (The Passage)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 16, 2005, 08:31:05 PM
 :o :o :o :o :o
THANK YOU, Vladimir V!
You've made my week!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 16, 2005, 08:54:16 PM
Here's a little mystery...
The key Vladimir V posted varies a bit from this plan that was posted at one time on the AP Time Machine site.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/childrensroomsmarkd.jpg)

The girls' bedrooms, for instance, are at opposite ends of the corridor from one plan to the next. Does anyone know which is correct?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 16, 2005, 09:23:19 PM
The key is for the Entrosol Roomj, the rooms in between the ground and First floor. The girls rooms they are talking about must be Nicholas's Sisters since they are in the opposite wing where A III and MF lived
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 16, 2005, 09:26:41 PM
Sorry My mistake I was looking at the wrong one  :-[
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 17, 2005, 02:20:20 PM
Sorry, that I don`t answer. I want to translate the names of the second floor rooms first. Then I post the list of the names the basement rooms in Russian and you also can practise in translation.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 17, 2005, 02:24:05 PM
The second floor

29. The Chambermaids` Bathroom
30. Chambermaid Elizabeth Ersberg
31. Chambermaid Anna Utkina
32. Major Chambermaid Aleksandra Tegleva
33. Zanotti`s Chambermaid Elizabeth Eltso (Eltser)
34. Aleksandra`s Lady in Waiting (on Duty)
35. Maid Madeline Zanotti
36. Maid Maria Tutleberg
37. The Junior Girls` Classroom

The Part of the Retinue

38. The First Servant`s Room
39. The Second Servant`s Room
40. The Hallway
41. The Drawing Room
42. The Bedroom
43. The Bathroom
44. The Reserved Room (The room of the Shneider`s dressmaker)
45. The Servant`s Room
46. The Servant`s Room
47. The Buffet
48. The Hallway (The Passage)
48a. The Light Hallway
49. The Study
50. The Boudoir
51. The Bedroom
52. The Corner Drawing Room
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Ortino on October 17, 2005, 03:10:25 PM
Quote
The key Vladimir V posted varies a bit from this plan that was posted at one time on the AP Time Machine


Vlad's is technically correct considering that the AP TM version has forgotten to include the grand duchesses' dining room and the crimson room. It simply says the "drawing room." The order is also COMPLETELY off. It should be GD Dining Room, Crimson Room, GD Classroom, GD bathroom, Olga/Tatiana's Room, Marie/Anastasia's room, Playroom.

As for the GDs' bedrooms being on opposite sides, they're on the same side, but the plans are presented differently.  Vlad's is presented vertically, the other horizontally.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pers on October 17, 2005, 07:29:45 PM
The plan as set out by Vladimir is correct. :)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 17, 2005, 10:11:04 PM
Quote
The order is also COMPLETELY off. It should be GD Dining Room, Crimson Room, GD Classroom, GD bathroom, Olga/Tatiana's Room, Marie/Anastasia's room, Playroom.


That's what I was referring to. In Vlad's plan, the girls' rooms are shown at the end of the wing closest to the playroom. The APTM places them at the opposite end of the wing (though still on the same side of the corridor).

Thanks for the clarification.

It would seem, then, that the younger girls' room was larger than Olga & Tatiana's. Interesting.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 17, 2005, 10:13:26 PM
Quote
Here's a little mystery...
The key Vladimir V posted varies a bit from this plan that was posted at one time on the AP Time Machine site.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/childrensroomsmarkd.jpg)

The girls' bedrooms, for instance, are at opposite ends of the corridor from one plan to the next. Does anyone know which is correct?




that plan is from one of my posts. i had gotten the plan (unlabeled) from a long-since deleted page from the AP site. unfortunately, i can't recall where i got my info from (re: the room function), but i probably tried using the present (at that time) AP description, or even some other source.  either way, i was later proved wrong, or at least misinformed, in that same thread.

i think it's safe to assume that vladimir's is the accurate one..... i am known for many things, but correct image labeling is not always one of them! ;D
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on October 17, 2005, 11:07:27 PM
From the key Vladimir V posted...

(http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/804/pathe2ndfloorchildrensrooms174.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 18, 2005, 08:40:19 AM
Thank you, Reco!

I must admit to having a little trouble deciphering the hand-lettered numerals on the original plan (when I zoom in, they just get fuzzy), so your re-labeling is very helpful!

And thanks, brnbg, for helping clear up my mystery.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 18, 2005, 11:58:58 AM
I've just posted a photo of the music room on this thread:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=palace;action=display;num=1082893477;start=0#18
:)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 18, 2005, 12:28:17 PM
The second floor

53. The Wardrode and the Ironing Room
54. The Reserved Room for the servants of the guests
55. The Reserved Room for the guests
56. The Hallway
57. The Passage
58. The Benkendorf`s Room
59. The Benkendorf`s Bedroom
60. The Benkendorf`s Drawing Room
61. The Buksgevden`s Drawing Room
62. The Buksgevden`s Bedroom
63. The room of the Buksgevden`s servant
64. The Wardrobe
65. The Orbeliani`s Drawing Room
66. The Orbeliani`s Room
67. The Orbeliani`s Room
68. The Obolenskaya`s Room
69. The Obolenskaya`s Bedroom
70. The Obolenskaya`s Drawing Room
71. The Reserved Room for the guests
72. The Buffet
73. The Buffet
74. The Buffet
75. The Buffet
76. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
77. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
78. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
79. The Glass Roofed Corridor
80. The Passage


#38-43 The Catherine Scneider`s apartment
#49-52 The rooms of Alexander III`s children (The rooms of young Nicholas)
#61-70 The rooms of the lady-in-waiting
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 18, 2005, 02:40:04 PM
Valdimir is there a key in thise wonderful book for the first floor rooms !!!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 19, 2005, 01:14:29 PM
Yes, it is. I try to post it soon.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 19, 2005, 01:15:19 PM
Thank you very much your efforts are greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 19, 2005, 01:17:37 PM
The basement

1. The pantry for the fruit
2. The servant`s washstand
3. The furnace for the first entrance


Maybe someone can help with the translation (I think it is interesting to know the technical side of the AP life):

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base1.JPG)


In the brackets the old # (at the doors in the basement)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 19, 2005, 01:38:46 PM
The scale labels in the plans are in meters:

0 - 5 - 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 meters
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 19, 2005, 10:11:21 PM
My Russian's a little sketchy/literal at times, but I'll do my best! (Feel free to correct me.) **********************************

5. Pantry for cleaning implements, where the crowbar & spade were found with which the Tsar worked.

6. (No. 1)* Proper buffet of their majesties. In it are two kettles for boiling water. Here, coffee brewed, milk, cream, and chocolate boiled. In the back right corner, -- the boiler for the bathroom of Aleksandra Fyodorovna, and the bath on the mezzanine for the children and the Englishwomen, who used the system of baths on the second floor.

* In parenthhesis is indicated the old numbers, preserved on the doorways of the quarters.

7. Passage into the stairway to the 1st [floor?] entrance. By door No. 11 (on the left) is the entrance to telephone post No. 3.

8. Hydraulic hoist machine
[or, as Joanna said, the elevator! ;)]

9. (No. 2) On-duty officer of the combined regiment.
a --- telephone booth for talking with the sentry.
[As for the paragraph following that -- ugh! :-/ Help, please. Something about the guard, and escape plan, and the Executive Committee...]
Here's my best attempt:
Door (No. 3) to the occupied stove. On 9th March 1917, S. Mstislavskii checked with the guard ___ of the tsar, evidently there had been som resistance here on the part of the on-duty officer, and spoke to him about the plan "Varrenskovo escape" about the decision of the Executive Committee.

10. (No. 4) Larder at the disposal of Alexandra Fyodorovna (later was the on-duty officer of the combined regiment).

11. (No. 5) Buffet of the chamber-___ and the young ladies.

12. (No. 6) Driver and footman of Aleksandra Fyodorovna, who were on duty in shifts of two weeks.

13. (No. 7 ) On-duty Operator - Post No. 2 through corridor, with door on the left [Joanna's translation!]

14. (No. 8 ) Apparatus with which water was heated for the personnel's apartments, and the children's floor, from the direction of the corridor, opposite the kettle in alcove No. 9 technician's cabinet. Here was housed the regulators for heating and ventilation.



*whew!* that's enough for one night! 8)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 19, 2005, 10:17:11 PM
It's interesting that according to the curator at the AP, they have no idea where the elevator actually was... They have differing opinions about where it was. I was so surprised about that! According to Vladimir's book it was in #8, which looks like right by the entrance to the east wing... Hmmm... why would they say they don't know, unless they feel that this book is incorrect. Or maybe they have not seen this book since it is such a limited edition...  ???
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 20, 2005, 12:16:36 PM
Let continue!

The basement
(page 2)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base2.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 20, 2005, 10:12:49 PM
Oof! These are a bit tougher than the last batch...
***************************

15. Battery for re-warming of ventilated air (for fresh air entering the window-grates in place of transomes).

16. Filters ___

17. Supercharged General Electric Corp. eletric motor variable current for ventilation of the personnel apartments.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 20, 2005, 11:07:28 PM
These are becoming more literal by the minute -- anyone is welcome to 'translate' my translations ::)
*******************************

18. Telephone of past time.

18a. Telephone, at the time of the last tsar, was together with the cross-town eliminated.

19. (No. 11) Room of the footmen (locals).

20. (No. 11) Footman of the children's floor (on duty in monthly shifts).

21. Quarters of the cloakroom attendant to Aleksandra Fyordorovna, Laduiga.

22. (No. 12) Boiler for the pool of Nikolai II.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 20, 2005, 11:20:20 PM
23. Storage of filters (___). [Something to do with pasteurization?]

24. Cloakroom attendant of the tsar.

25. Local footmen of the tsar and tsaritsa.

26. Riding breeches and riding equipment of Nikolai II.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 20, 2005, 11:53:10 PM
27. (No. 13) Passage into instructions above 3 quarters and to stairs leading to the valet and to the cloakroom.

28. Water boiler for the bath quarters of the children's floor.

29. Buffet of the officers of the combined regiment.

Quote
30. Pantry of Nicholas II
31. Pantry for the trunks of the Tsarina

32. Quarters of the men of the children's floor.

33. Transformer (for the demands of the supercharged high tension current engine).

34. Admittance post of the combined regiment.

35. Supervisor of the combined regiment.

36. Descent into the tunnel.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 21, 2005, 05:48:00 AM
Filling in some of  SarahElizabethII's blanks:
(Others may have better translations)
6. ...two kettles
14. ...opposite the kettle in Alcove No. 9...
15. ...(Grates in place of the transoms)
17.  ...General Electric Corp. (abbreviation for Corporation)
26.  Riding Breeches and riding equipment

Hope others can fill in other blanks.

SarahElizabeth, thanks for all the great work.
BobG

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 21, 2005, 11:47:45 AM
Quote

 Vlad's is technically correct considering that the AP TM version has forgotten to include the grand duchesses' dining room and the crimson room. It simply says the "drawing room." The order is also COMPLETELY off. It should be GD Dining Room, Crimson Room, GD Classroom, GD bathroom, Olga/Tatiana's Room, Marie/Anastasia's room, Playroom.

As for the GDs' bedrooms being on opposite sides, they're on the same side, but the plans are presented differently. Vlad's is presented vertically, the other horizontally.


Just to be very fair to the AP site:  I have a copy I printed when the floorplan of the Children's room was on the site and it matches completely VladImir's Plan and key (and also the one labeled by Reco). I think Brian, who is very good with plans, must have been using some other source than the AP site when he labeled his drawing.
The Drawing Room (#7) is also known as the Crimson Drawing Room on the AP site.

Vladimir,
I'm now reversing myself and hoping that you will be able to post the plan of the first floor and a room key for it.  In comparison to your plans, I now realize how fuzzy and unclear my plans of the first floor are and when I try to see how things line up with the basement, entresol, and second floor, I'm reallly in need of a main floor plan of the quality you've been posting.  I know it's a lot to ask, but can you consider doing it at some point?

I'm feeling you're bringing a whole new level of understanding to all of us.  Thanks again.
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 21, 2005, 02:03:36 PM
Quote

Just to be very fair to the AP site: I have a copy I printed when the floorplan of the Children's room was on the site and it matches completely VladImir's Plan and key (and also the one labeled by Reco). I think Brian, who is very good with plans, must have been using some other source than the AP site when he labeled his drawing.
The Drawing Room (#7) is also known as the Crimson Drawing Room on the AP site.

Vladimir,
I'm now reversing myself and hoping that you will be able to post the plan of the first floor and a room key for it. In comparison to your plans, I now realize how fuzzy and unclear my plans of the first floor are and when I try to see how things line up with the basement, entresol, and second floor, I'm reallly in need of a main floor plan of the quality you've been posting. I know it's a lot to ask, but can you consider doing it at some point?

I'm feeling you're bringing a whole new level of understanding to all of us. Thanks again.
Bob G



i second that!     i too am hoping you won't mind posting the main floor (and it's room key).   as i've said before, you've been extremely generous with the posts you've already shared and i hope you won't feel too imposed upon by us asking.    but i do have to agree with Bob:
the excellent quality & clarity of the plans you've posted so far, make it obvious how "fuzzy" previous plans have been.     i'm dying to see the detail on yours.....details that can barely be seen on the previous  plans of the main floor.    sometimes, those smaller things can hold a great deal of information.     as Bob mentioned, the plans you've shared (along with the room functions) have provided us with a better understanding of the palace as a home....& how it functioned on a personal level & on a daily basis --- at least with regards to the residents of the imperial wing.    

i can't speak for anyone else, but, for me, the right wing is still a complete mystery.     i have a vague idea who may have occupied what series of rooms....but i have absolutely no clue which room was what.    some of us tried to figure it out on our own -- with very little help, or input, from those who profess to have that kind of information.     so your generosity is doubly appreciated.

i think we did a fair job identifying some of those rooms in the right wing, but no-one could say what they were for sure.  & the fine details that might have helped in figuring out their function, were, generally, too blurry to make out clearly.


i'm rambling now, but i'm sincere in my thanks to you for posting everything you have so far, and equally sincere in my hopes that you won't mind sharing the main floor, too.


thanks again, very much
, vladimir  ;)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 21, 2005, 02:05:11 PM
Helen
There were two elevators: one for Aleksandra and one for a lady-in-waiting (maid of honour).

BobG, Brian
I think it will be better if we translate the description of the basement first and then start to work with the first floor and others. I hope it takes a couple of days.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 21, 2005, 02:08:21 PM
The basement
(page3)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base3.JPG)


Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 21, 2005, 04:03:21 PM
Vladimir,
That's sounds fine with me.  Although I don't know Russian, I have a really good Russian-English Dictionary and will offer all the help I can.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 21, 2005, 06:15:59 PM
Thanks, BobG, for filling in some of those blanks. I'll update my original posts shortly. I hope to get to the library this weekend and pick up another Russian dictionary...

I've also corrected a mistake I spotted this afternoon: all that business about officers' combined berths - wrong! I confused polka, the word for shelf or berth, with the genitive case of polk, which means regiment. ::)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 21, 2005, 07:00:55 PM
37. Room of the officers of the guard.

38. Guards' quarters of the combined regiment. Here on the 9th of March, 1917, S. Mstislavski appealed to the soldiers of the 2nd Tsarskoeseloski rifle regiment and indicated that they hand over to the Okhrana the matter of the tsar and his family, and convinced them not to leave without the command of the Petrogradski Executive Committee.

39. & 39a. W.C. for the officers of the combined regiment guard.

40. Storage for electirc hot water bottles of the personal rooms of the tsar, tsarina, and the children.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 21, 2005, 07:17:05 PM
41. Hot water boiler for the corner parlour of Aleksandra Fyodorovna, the two libraries, and the hall behind them -- battery.

42. Quarters of the guard escort.

43. Dog's kitchen [my favorite so far!]

44. Quarters where the gardener arranged flowers (also filter storage).

45. Linen pantry.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 21, 2005, 09:56:37 PM
46. Personal ___ kitchen with hearth, pastry oven, Russian oven in which the oil was heated for blini, kettles for heating water, skewers and ___ for roastins shish kebab in birch[?] corner. Evidently, ___ kitchen was in the basement of the palace as far back as the time of Nikolai I. In any case, in 1858 it already ___ the contractor Pavlovym for 1,850 rubles under the supervision of Colonel Ladygin.

47. Pantry attatched to the kitchen, with icebox.

48. Chamber for the battery of the water heater with kettles under ___ for inflow of fresh air.

49. Pantry

50. Hot water boiler for ___ ___, libraries, and pantries along the open hall.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 22, 2005, 07:08:15 AM
Quote
46. Personal ___ kitchen with hearth, pastry oven, Russian oven in which the oil was heated for blini, kettles for heating water, skewers and ___ for roastins shish kebab in birch[?] corner. Evidently, ___ kitchen was in the basement of the palace as far back as the time of Nikolai I. In any case, in 1858 it already ___ the contractor Pavlovym for 1,850 rubles under the supervision of Colonel Ladygin.

47. Pantry attatched to the kitchen, with icebox.

48. Chamber for the battery of the water heater with kettles under ___ for inflow of fresh air.

49. Pantry

50. Hot water boiler for ___ ___, libraries, and pantries along the open hall.


Here's my attempts:
46. Personal staff kitchen with hearth, pastry oven, Russian oven in which the oil was heated for blini, kettles for heating water, skewers and ___ for roasting shish kebab in birch[?] corner. Evidently, the staff kitchen was in the basement of the palace as far back as the time of Nikolai I. In any case, in 1858 it was renovated by [/color]the contractor Pavlovym for 1,850 rubles under the supervision of Colonel Ladygin.

48. Chamber for the battery of the water heater with a boiler under the floor for inflow of fresh air.

50. Hot water boiler for the slide hall[/color], libraries, and pantries along the open hall. (I assume this is refering to "the Mountain Hall" named after the children's slide that once was in this hall.)

That's my best shot.

Come on Russian language experts, you can do much better than I can so please help with this translation task. We can't leave all of the work to Sarushka!

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 22, 2005, 12:43:10 PM
SarahElizabethII, BobG
Thank you very much for the translation!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 22, 2005, 12:48:01 PM
The basement
(page4)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base4.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 22, 2005, 04:10:56 PM
Following BobG's lead, sections I need help translating will be posted in red from now on(transliterated into Latin letters).
***********************
51. Plumber's workshop.

52. Attire.

53. Pneumatic roasting oven for 11th podezda (v korobe iz kotel'nogo zhelza).

54. Electrical engineer's room.

55. Gardener's pantry, where flowers were kept for the tables and passageway to the stairs.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 22, 2005, 04:59:02 PM
56. Expense Buffet or kafeshenskaya with both kettles and a hearth. Coffe, milk, cream, tea, sugar, and rolls were dispensed here for all palace employees. From here came the smell of coffee through all the halls.

57. Quarters of the buffet workers.

58. Storage for the trunks of the tsaritsa.

59. Checkpoint, in it a partition for the electrician's storage.

60. Storage of Aleksandra Fyodorovna.

61. Storage of the children's floor.

62. Storage of Nikolai II.

63. Quarters for the court.

64. Storage for beer boxes, wine cellar (latticed partition).
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 22, 2005, 05:32:47 PM
65. Storage for brooms, shovels, rope and pr. security guard Shchikachev, head of staff. [Not sure about this part:] Deliveries to the court were made in wheelbarrows by the service staff.

66. Hot water kettle [boiler?] for semicircular and portrait halls.

67. & 68. Storage of the tsaritsa's cloakroom attendant, Ladunga. In No. 67 was put away any/all sorts of furniture after musykantov, in No. 68 -- slipcovers with furniture.

69. Attire
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 23, 2005, 07:27:08 AM
Sarushka,
I have a few changes and additions for you:

52. & 69. Lavatory (Toilet)

53. Flue of the pneumatic furnace (in a boiler plate box) and the 11th entrance.

56. Expense Buffet or Cafeteria with both kettles and a hearth. Coffee, milk, cream, tea, sugar, and rolls were dispensed here for all palace employees. From here came the smell of coffee through all the halls.

63. Storage for firewood.

65. Storage for brooms, shovels, rope etc.watchcman Shchikachev, head of garden staff. [Not sure about this part:] Firewood delivered on wheelbarrows by the gardeners.

67. & 68. Storage of the tsaritsa's cloakroom attendant, Ladunga. In No. 67 was put away any/all sorts of furniture after musicians in No. 68 -- slipcovers with furniture.

BobG

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 23, 2005, 01:44:53 PM
The basement
(page 5)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base5.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 23, 2005, 01:54:53 PM
Oven for the 11th entrance - it`s oven for the II entrance (the second entrance).
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 23, 2005, 08:23:53 PM
70. Connecting housing with vodogreinym kettles for polomosk.

71. Connecting housing with pantry for the battery for the electric bells.

72. Storage of the architectural foreman.

73. Passage to 2 service staircases, and behind a partition, houseing for the transformer for the movie projector.

74. Hot water kettle b. billiard hall, arcade (more precisely, the church) and the third entry.

75. Room of the floor polishers.

76. Pantry for copper ware [could be dishes and/or utensils].
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 24, 2005, 06:30:33 AM
70. Connecting room with hot water boilers for the charwomen.
 
74. Hot water kettle for the former billiard hall, arcade (more precisely, the church) and the third entry.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 24, 2005, 01:09:57 PM
The cross-section (well-known?) of the AP. Quarenghi`s drawing. A variant.

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/cross.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on October 24, 2005, 01:17:59 PM
Yes, Vlad, this is a well known cross section but I have never seen a really clear view of it...but your post of it is the best so far....thank you for posting it!!

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 25, 2005, 01:17:04 AM
I checked the meaning of "prispeshnaya kukhnya" (No. 46 of basement plan).
It is old russian name for kitchen.
Sometimes , in monasteries, it was bakery.
But from the explanation, we could understand that it was not only bakery ( shashlyks too).
The verb "prispeshaty" means cook.
Maybe, we could translate it as Personal Tsar Kitchen.
I think, that it is not proper to translate  Russkaya Pechy as russian oven.
Because it is not only oven, it is big pechka which has not only the oven but the iron plate in the upper side where food also could be cooked.
Maybe it is better to transate just Russian Pechka,
or Russian stove.
( I am not sure  exactly about americans and others, but Japanese use the word "pechka", in case of russian pechka)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: NAAOTMA on October 25, 2005, 06:19:32 PM
Would this kitchen be similar to the one in the American White House which is located on the second floor, and is used only for the First Family in their private upstairs diningroom? The Head Chef oversees the large kitchen located in the basement of the White House, and also cooks in the small upstairs kitchen for the First Family as is required. But the functions of the two kitchens are quite separate.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 26, 2005, 12:31:16 AM
I did not understand, how many kitchen were in AP?
From the structure of all country palaces, they had to have one more separate kitchen building in the garden.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Macedonsky on October 26, 2005, 12:42:40 AM
Quote
I checked the meaning of "prispeshnaya kukhnya" (No. 46 of basement plan).
It is old russian name for kitchen.
Sometimes , in monasteries, it was bakery.
But from the explanation, we could understand that it was not only bakery ( shashlyks too).
The verb "prispeshaty" means cook.
Maybe, we could translate it as Personal Tsar Kitchen.

I never heard the word "prispeshnaya" before. From the search in RuNet I understood the meaning. Terms like "povarnya s prispeshney (pirozhnoy)" mean kitchen with bakery (pastry?). "there were povarni, medovarni, vinniy zavod, prispeshni..."

But "prispeshnaya kukhnya", i.e. kitchenary kitchen? I have no ideas. ut in Catherine Palace there were "prispeshnaya kukhnya" too: http://www.pushkin-town.net/gazeta/4705.html

The story of the word:
http://wordhist.narod.ru/prispeshnik.html
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 26, 2005, 12:53:41 AM
Maybe " prispeshnaya kukhnya" was the kitchen directly in the palace, which was used as bakery and as the kitchen where they could  cook fastly (or immediately)
the food for limited number of people, especially for the Tsar Family.

Along to quite a small "prispeshnaya kukhnya" they might have a big kitchen in the separate building, where they cook soups, the food for staff and others, ham etc?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 26, 2005, 05:25:11 AM
Let's keep moving forward:

77. The Passage where at certain times daily firewood was brought from a material court yard.

78. The firemens room. Four were on duty each day. Also direct heat furnace for heating the III-th entrance.

79. The storeroom for fire tools.

80. (23) plumbers room. Two plumbers and three stokers were on duty in shifts.

81. (24) waiters room. Four were on monthly duty.

82. (25) senior footmen of a rolling stock (I assume this means Imperial trains). There were two, on monthly duty.

83. The Room of 2 barbers - Dmitriev and Ivanov. They were on duty monthly and served mainly footmen. Ivanov also cut the tsars hair, was his favourite and traveled with him, each time he worked for him, he got 10 roubles from the tsar as a tip. Also there was a visiting barber.

84. Chambers-cossacks of tsarina.

86. State Livery storage; were on duty: one tailor and one prisazhnyj (watchman), otvechavshchy for sohrainost property; walked with gold braid. The tailor served sovereign (sewed buttons) and sluzhashnh. Employee of an overcoat, a three-cornered hat, stockings, boots. (I wonder if this is a description of the uniform of palace servants?) Here stood out

Waiting for more from Vladimir so we can get to the main floor!

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 26, 2005, 08:07:35 AM
Wow - Thanks BobG!

I've had a busy week, but Vladimir has sent me the rest of the basement key, which I hope to return to today or tomorrow. I got another dictionary from the library to help me out -- an Oxford edition, but not as new as yours, Bob.

I'm eager for the main floor, too.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 26, 2005, 08:09:15 AM
Quote
each time he worked for him, he got 10 roubles from the tsar for tea.


"Chai" can mean either tea or tip.
Not sure which is correct in this context.  ;)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 26, 2005, 12:16:18 PM
Let`s do it!

The basement
(page6)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base6.JPG)

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 26, 2005, 12:20:04 PM
The basement
(page7) That`s all!

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base7.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 26, 2005, 12:25:03 PM
Sarah

He got 10 roubles "for tea" = He got tips.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 26, 2005, 02:47:37 PM
In No. 108 I have found new alcohol 's type (for me) named ALASCH.  I checked and found out that it was the Rigas liqueur. The production of this liqueur have begane since 1823 in the place named ALASCH which is near Riga.  It was made on the basis of premium tmin ( This is russian, I think that in English is the same , but not sure).

I also wonder to know what does it mean : ANGLIYSKAYA GORYKAYA (English Bitter Alcohol)?
Was it whisky?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 27, 2005, 01:40:52 AM
It seems that Yakovlev, who made this book was "a boy from the palace" before revolution.
(which is very good)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 27, 2005, 07:58:46 AM
Here goes another attempt:

89. (32) wine cellar.
90. (33) category II footmen; were on duty by the month; there were 5 beds; all was 50 person.
91. (34) category I footmen; 4 persons by the month were on duty; all was 8.
92. (35) Room for blackamoors on duty; 2 persons on two weeks were on duty; all was 4.
93. (36) Kamer-furiers.
94. The Electro-motor, a variable single-phase current, for the Siemens- Wukerts elevator.
95. The Pantry.
96. (37) Gofmarshal kitchen with a marble bowl (before everywhere were such, but them have rejected as deep and badly washed out), the hearth, the pastry oven, the oven for baking Shrovetide pancakes and skewers for grilled shish kebabs.
97. Water-heating for a bath.
98. The Bath for serving personnel.
99. Washstands.
100. The Pantry.
101. The Gof-furier Pantry for various items (brushes, sponges, vacuum cleaners and so forth).
102. The Corridor of IV entrance (pass).
103. (No 38 ) Gof-furier Vas. Vas. SHalberova
104. (39) dining room of the category V footmen. On duty here "muzhiks" sold wine-glasses of vodka to the staff for money.

Only one more--then the main floor!
Bob
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 27, 2005, 08:08:23 AM
Here's the last of the basement rooms. Please help clarify my faulty translations:


105. (40) assistants waiters serving the Tsar's buffet; four persons monthy were on duty; in total there was 8 person; there were 4 beds.
106. (41) Porters; two porters and two assistants were on duty monthly; in total there was 8 person; earlier here was kafeshenkskaya.
107. Pogrebshchikov(Wine Cellar??); on duty one pogrebshchik (wine Steward?) and two muzhiks by the month; pogrebshchikov were 4, muzhiks - about 10; they came. from the Winter Palace Regarding the room behind a partition where a plate pogrebshchiki  sold to the staff mainly a rolling stock, vodka bottles and wine-glasses and beer. The cook drank here more than others.
108. (42) Wine Distribution, there was a rack (Madeira, red wine, port, beer, vodka, English bitters, spirit for waving of hair (can this be right?), ALASCH, dense white wine, etc.). Obtained by the footmen on a note of gofmarshalsloj of a part.
109. (43) assistants to Gof-furier.
110. (44) Runners; two were on duty by the month; all four persons.
In 1843 the room has been separated from the large entrance hall and corridor by a stone wall without windows for installation of the battery for the animator of electro-magnetic telegraph.

That's my best shot. Where are all the Russian translators???

See you on the Main Floor.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 27, 2005, 08:46:49 AM

No. 108 Otpusk vina  does not mean holiday vine
Otpusk is from verb "Otpuskaty", which mean to dispatch, to give and to weigh

Spirt dlya zavivki volos -  maybe , alcohol for waving of hair.

Name of Gof furier in No. 103 , probably, Vasiliy Vasilievich  Shalberov ( he is man)

No. 101 - Pantry of gof furiers for various items (brushes etc.) - kladovaya gof -furierov dlya raznykh predmetov
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 27, 2005, 08:56:07 AM
No.105 (No.40) of Assistants to  Waiters, serving at the Tsar's private buffet.
Pomoschnikov offitsiantov, sluzivshikh pri sobstvennom bufete.
(Maybe his own cantene is right too, but I think that
canteen and buffet are different things - buffet is deling only with hors d'oeuvres)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 27, 2005, 10:59:30 AM
hikaru,

Thanks for your clarification. I need all the help I can get!
So would 108 be "Wine Distribution?"

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on October 27, 2005, 11:18:19 AM
Dear Bob, you are doing it perfectly.

Is there in the distribution the meaning   to weigh.
I think that PIC (person in charge) had some measure
in where he put the alcohol exactly in accordance witn
volume which was preliminary decided by rules.

I think that distribution is fine.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 27, 2005, 01:06:17 PM
The first (main) floor

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/main1.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 27, 2005, 01:08:32 PM
The first floor

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/main2.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on October 27, 2005, 08:39:24 PM
Quote
The first (main) floor

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/main1.JPG)




Vladimir,
just let me say:

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU !!!

you have made so many of us here, so very VERY happy! you are an wonderfully generous person and that generosity is GREATLY appreciated. i doubt that any of us could repay you adequately enough, but we do, honestly, extend our sincerest gratitude & appreciation.

(i hope no-one minds that i spoke for more than myself....i just figured that since i'm sure i'm not the only one that feels this way, i'd go-ahead and say so. if i've spoken out of turn, i apologize....but i'm not sorry. so :P thpppt! lol )


thank you so much, Vladimir! and an enormous "THANK YOU!!" to everyone involved with the translations! y'all are demonstrating just how much this building/palace/former home/museum means to us.
more than just it's architecture, this building represents many things: love, hate, romance, joy, life, death, loss, tragedy, etc.
everyone on this forum is here for different reasons and varied interests and we all expect, and are looking for, different things....but in my opinion, what really matters, is one simple fact:

for whatever reason, we have all come together because our varied interests & expectations have brought us together. and while the input of each individual varies, we have, as a whole, created a community. and while a certain amount of selfishness, spite & greed
are expected, i like to believe that most of us are better than that.
and i'm happy to say, the generosity & effort displayed in this thread alone, tell me my hopes aren't misplaced.


thank you everyone for your time & all your effort....you're all amazing and i'm very proud to be a member of this community!!!


--- brian
(brnbg aka: liljones1968 )
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on October 27, 2005, 11:29:53 PM
Thank you so much, Vladimir-V :

(http://img422.imageshack.us/img422/5112/main256ib.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)  
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 28, 2005, 04:13:04 AM
Vladimir,
Thank you for the Main floor plan.  As expected it has more detail than those I've previously seen.

Whenever you're ready to post the room descriptions for translation, I've got my dictionary ready to go.

Thanks again especially for breaking out the Right Wing that has always interested me.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 28, 2005, 06:33:00 AM
I echo the sentiments of gratitude for these posts. This is probably [to me] the most relevent  topic & posts on the entire AP site in  quite some time.  After all, the AP was intended as the primary focus of the discussion board, was it not ?
Cheers,
Robert
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 28, 2005, 07:43:20 AM
Robert,
I agree with you about the importance of these posts to the discussion board as a whole. This is always my primary focus in visiting the site. Which is why I was amazed that far more people didn't jump in to help with the translations of the room keys which give us great insight into how the palace functioned at the time of Nicholas and Alexandra. I was so desperate to get this information that I spent hours at my Russian dictionary (I can neither read or speak Russian) trying to unlock the key to this fabulous building.
SarahElizabeth and others were tremendous in their efforts as well.
I hope these floorplans (THANK YOU VLADIMIR!) will get more people interested and involved in the Alexander Palace itself!

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on October 28, 2005, 08:15:20 AM
BobG -- You did a terriffic job with those last 2 pages! Thank you!

I, too, am looking forward to spending my weekend with 2 dictionaries and a set of main floor plans. (hint, hint!)
;)

Sarushka
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 28, 2005, 01:59:55 PM
Sorry, but there isn`t a short list of the main floor rooms in this book.
The list consists of 306 pages and includes the description of the rooms
with all (or about) things.

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 28, 2005, 02:04:28 PM
Yakovlev V.I. The Alexander palace-museum in Detskoye Selo. Decoration.- Leningrad., 1928.

Table of contents

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/des1.JPG)

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: gleb on October 28, 2005, 02:09:38 PM
THANKS  SO SO  MUCH!!!!!

I know we keep on asking, but could you please make also Alix's wing so large as Maria Fedorovna's one.
When you have time of course.


Thanks again with all my heart!!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on October 28, 2005, 07:22:53 PM
Thanks  so  much Vladimir

(http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/8719/main149xd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 28, 2005, 09:31:07 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH for these plans they have been extrememly illuminating I wish I could help witht eh translation but my Russian is horrible.
I think with the Main Floor we would all like to simply know what each of the rooms were used for excluding the ones already identified on the plans posted here.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 29, 2005, 01:39:38 PM
The first floor

The Parade Rooms:
1. Aleksandra`s Corner Reception Room (The Formal Reception Room)
2. The Library
3. The Library
4. The Library
5. The Library
6. The room for the doorkeepers
7. The second entrance hallway
8. The staircase to the second floor
9. The Mountain Hall
10. The Portrait Hall
11. The Semi Circular Hall
12. The Marble Drawing Room (The Billiard Hall)
13. The Buffet
14. The Buffet
15. The staircases to the second floor and to the basement
16. The passage from The Open Hall to the Semi Circular Hall
17. The room for the movie projector

Maria Feodorovna and Aleksander`s rooms:
18. The Maria Feodorovna`s Bathroom
19. The White (or Red) Drawing Room
20. The Red Dining Room
21. The Anteroom
22. The room for the doorkeepers
23. The passage from the third entrance
24. The staircase to the second floor
25. The Palace Chapel
26. The Wardrobe
27. The Maid`s Room (Kamer-yungferskaya) with the alcove
28. The wooden staircase to the mezzanine and the second floor
29. The Bedroom
30. The Boudoir
31. The room before the Chapel
32. The Small Chapel
33. The Blue Drawing Room
34. The Oaken Hallway
35. The Passage
36. The Reserved Room
37. The Reception Room
38. The Dining Room
39. The Study
40. The Dressing Room (with the alcove)
41. The on-duty officer`s room
42. The on-duty officer`s room
43. The Hallway
44. The lobby of the IVth entrance and the passages
45. The staircases to the second floor
46. The room for the doorkeepers
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on October 31, 2005, 12:32:57 AM
Thzank you so much !!! It is extremely illuminating to finally know what all the rooms are for.....PLEASE continue with the rest :0))
One question, which room is the Stag Chamber
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 31, 2005, 12:37:31 PM
The first floor

The Reserved Suite
47. Elizabeth Fyodorovna`s room
48. The staircase to the mezzanine
49. The Wardrobe
50. The Bedroom (English Suite)
51. The Drawing Room (English Suite)
52. The Study (English Suite)
53. The Dressing Room (English Suite)
54. The Valet`s Room
55. The Buffet with the staircase to the mezzanine and to the second floor
56. The Passage

Nicholas`s and Aleksandra`s Rooms
57. The Lobby
58. The Buffet
59. The Passageways
60. The Duty Room of the Aleksandra`s wardrobe mistress
61. The furnace (to boil the water for the buffet)
62. The staircases to the second floor
63. The Reception Room
64. The Working Study (the Old Study)
65. The Dressing Room
66. The Wardrobe
67. The Valet`s Room
68. The Large Study (the New Study)
69. The Hallway
70. The Maple Drawing Room (The Boudoir)
71. The Palisander (Rosewood) Drawing Room
72. The Lilac (Mauve) Study
73. The Bedroom
74. The Dressing Room
75. The Bathroom
76. The Maid`s Room
77. The Wooden Staircase (to the mezzanine and to the second floor)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/main3.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 31, 2005, 12:57:33 PM
Vladimir,
Your work is done!
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to give us so much wonderful information about the Alexander Palace.
I, for one, am very, very grateful.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on October 31, 2005, 01:16:21 PM
Quote
Vladimir,
Your work is done!
BobG


Not yet.
There is a small BONUS. (The floorplans of the Kitchen house.)
And I hope for your help with the translation.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Arleen on October 31, 2005, 03:53:55 PM
I just want to add my heartfelt thanks too.  These floorplans and translations are so important to me.  .....and the Kitchen house too, what a bonus!

..Arleen
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 01, 2005, 05:01:51 AM
The kitchen houses as well ?  What more could we possibly ask for ? Thank you once again.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 01, 2005, 12:46:46 PM
Quote
One question, which room is the Stag Chamber


Stag Chamber it`s the Dressing Room (#40).
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 01, 2005, 01:08:44 PM
Vladimir,
Thanks, I always wondered which room was the Stag Chamber also.
I keep learning more and more from you.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on November 01, 2005, 01:19:45 PM
Yes thankyou Vladimir....Your efforts are greatly appreciated. If I may ask does your book contain any pictures we may not have seen of the tsar's bathroom or a description that might add something to what we already know !!!!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 03, 2005, 12:58:02 PM
The officers in the Room # 9 (the basement).

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base-int.JPG)

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 03, 2005, 12:59:40 PM
The basement

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base8.JPG)

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 03, 2005, 02:18:32 PM
Vladimir,
More wonderful postings to help us see the life of the Palace!
I've got my dictionary ready to go on the Kitchen building, but these wonderful photos are greatly appreciated!

I have a question on the basement plan, however.  On the right wing of the basement just above room #110 is another room that looks like it is labeled #108.  It doesn't look like it would be another wine storage; it seems to be a passage to the courtyard.  Anything in your book to help clarify this?

Thanks again.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 03, 2005, 03:15:49 PM
Bob:

The room north of 110 appears to be a 102 [corridor].....room 108 is two rooms south of room 110.  You would not want a wine storage room in the location you are referring to.

The wine storage you notice in room 108 only has one door for security. :D

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 03, 2005, 04:09:47 PM
Douglas,
Thanks.  The room clearly is a passage and that's why I thought the label #108 probably would not be referring to the same function as the real room 108.  I just couldn't quite figure out why two rooms were labeled what looked like "108" to me.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 03, 2005, 08:19:03 PM
I am in awe Vladimir! My many many thanks to you for these incredible floorplans and your translations of the rooms along with the amazing translating work of Sarushka, BobG, Hikaru and Douglas! It is a dream!

Of the basement room #9, I had envisioned these rooms with a regular style of ceiling rather than the curved vaulted shown as the AP is more of a simple classical design. Does anyone know the reason for this? Was it possibly due to hide the wide type of supports required to sustain the weight of the upper floors and was this typical for buildings built c1800s/1900s?

Joanna
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 03, 2005, 08:58:53 PM
Joanna:  

Good question.   I now understand the dotted lines in the basement rooms.  These lines show the vaulted arches between spaces.

Yes, the structure of the basement has to be sufficient to hold up the upper floors.

I recognize a few of the faces in the photo in Room 9 of the basement.  These officers are the Tsar's military aides.

I guess that a mustache was required facial adornment in those days.

Also note the elegant fluted napkins standing on the table!  What with the wine it was probably a special day of some sort.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 03, 2005, 09:47:56 PM
Quote
Also note the elegant fluted napkins standing on the table! What with the wine it was probably a special day of some sort.


Thanks Douglas!

I wonder if it was a special day and not just a daily occurance when dining. As today in Royal palaces,  Aides/Households have retained an elegant style of dining that we associate with Victorian/Edwardian days. Even the time allotted for dining is almost sacred and not to be deviated from whereas we in our hectic lives cannot conceive that a work environment like this exists!

Joanna
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 04, 2005, 04:51:59 AM
Joanna,
The arches are typical for providing support in many buildings.
Look at the pictures of Alexander III and  Maria Feodorovna's suite on the mezzanine floor at Gatchina and you will see arches there as well.  The ground floor of the Winter Palace also contain arched rooms.  Arches are a very common and practical method of providing great strength and support.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 04, 2005, 01:13:03 PM
The basement again (the right wing)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base9.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 04, 2005, 01:17:02 PM
The central part of the basement

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/base10.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Scott on November 04, 2005, 05:25:23 PM
Current photo of portion of the basement which shows the arches:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/lydunka/DSCN0881comp.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 04, 2005, 06:52:03 PM
Scott,
Is your picture at the bottom of the stairs (62 on Vladimir's plan).  It goes down to the room where you leave bags?
I remember going down there, but your picture brings my visit back.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Angwen on November 04, 2005, 08:42:10 PM
 The reason rooms changed was that no one was really living there, unless those soldiers were comrades?

The palaces to any Bolshevik is prove of historic materialism & materialistic fetishes.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Scott on November 05, 2005, 10:58:56 AM
The basement photo was taken in either Room 7 or 19.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 05, 2005, 01:50:13 PM
The kitchen building. The first floor.

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit3.JPG)

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 05, 2005, 01:53:44 PM
The kitchen building

1.
(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit1.JPG)

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 05, 2005, 01:56:24 PM
The kitchen building

2.
(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit2.JPG)

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Arleen on November 05, 2005, 02:11:16 PM
The kitchen plans are so wonderful.  I can hardly wait for the translation.  V you are much appreciated.  Would the tunnel be shown on this first floor, or would that come out from the basement?

..A
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 05, 2005, 02:12:53 PM
Vladimir,
Thanks for the kitchen.  I'm working on it starting right now.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 06, 2005, 01:17:48 PM
Russkie Perevodchiki: Pozhalujsta pomoshch s etim perevodom!

Kitchen Wing.

Explanation
The plan of 1st floor.

The main Kitchen


1. Pastry Room (a refrigerator or a cold room).
Pies prepared for baking, there was a sink with a drain.

2. Pastry Room. Russian ovens were destroyed by children's colonies (I assume after the revolution) and hotplates replaced them.
In the middle there was a big rectangular table for the baked pies. There were also small tables at exterior corners with marble boards and also wooden cabinets cut into the wall.

3. The main kitchen. At a side window -- the sauce maker's table.   At a back wall -- a small table for the sauce boat. At the entrance on the left corner were distributed breakfasts and dinners by categories (II, III and IV). Across from the stove -- two big tables, with kitchen items (knifes, spoons, strainers and so forth) covered by cloths. On the opposite wall an icon made by the kitchen workers hung. There were two sinks.

4. Procurement Department. This was where preliminary work on food products was done, work on delivery of breakfasts and dinners to the Imperial Family and their retinue.
At an entrance on the left a a large marble mortar for preparation of sausage for stuffing. Then and there at the windows, a table -- covered by a cloth; at the same wall, in corners-chests with ice. Along the long wall - a table without a cloth; all products from the storerooms were brought to this table, where they were stored and then they were transferred to the Tsar's kitchen by two kitchen muzhiks.
In the same room products and for the others of the court were prepared and sent to other small kitchens, for example on gofmarshal's kitchen at the IV entrance, to the kitchen in the right semi-circle (the Catherine Palace's service buildings shaped as a semi-circle around the yard), guardrooms, etc.  On another table there was a hot preparation. On the right garden side in a corner stood iron grated box for fire wood.
At a back wall - a spit for roasting different meat and game. Next to it - roasting-jack on which cutlets and different products were roasted on coals. One sink.

5. Ice room. The ice was delivered from above through three hatches of the high cases standing on the left wall. At back - a icebox for cold snack for the personal (I think this must refer to the Imperial family) table. On the right walls - a tubs of red granite with ice, then a table. On side wall to the right is a table and in the middle of a room a table. All tables were covered by cloths, when the prepared snack and cold dishes were placed on them. The door into the next room was always kept closed.

6. Meat Room and with it an aquarium. where swam live trout, sterlets, whitefish and others. At the left side wall the pool, out of the way on the side exterior wall - three ice boxes.

That's my best shot. I really wish others would help confirm these feeble attempts at Russian translation.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 06, 2005, 01:32:09 PM
Quote
Would the tunnel be shown on this first floor, or would that come out from the basement?


#12 the staircase to the tunnel
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 06, 2005, 01:35:53 PM
The kitchen building

3.
(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit4.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 06, 2005, 06:53:55 PM
Here is page 527:

In all rooms was available several stools and wall cupboards with utensils.

7. Passage. Under the stairway - а storeroom. On the opposite side in a grilled niche sauces were kept. At the far window - a table on which meat was cut.

8. Dish Washing Room. On the left wall - trellised shelfs for storing copper utensils. On the exterior wall - a big table for washed utensils. In an inside corner - a boiler for washing utensils. At a back wall a big bowl for rinsing utensils.

9. Pantry. In the big chest at the back and side walls, filled the ice, vegetables, meat, the cut cutlets, snacks - ham, fish, caviar, cream, sour cream, butter and so forth were kept.

10. Pantry. On the exterior wall - a chest for storage of a flour, grains and salt, and in a glass case on the left side wall canned food, herbs, and fruit were stored.

11. Kitchen Office. Checks for obtaining food were made out and the headwaiter and storekeeper made out menus. There and then there were two clerks for accounting.

12. Descent into the tunnel.
13. Ice room.
14. Sawdust Storage. For strewing on the kitchen floor (there was a pit for earlier rubbish) were stored.
15. Coal Room - coal for a confectioner's shop was stored.
16. Overhang under which there was a wagon for rubbish.
17. Ice room.

CONFECTIONER'S SHOP

18. Kvass branch. Where monastic and bread kvass was prepared, ice-cream and different products for the confectioner's shop were stored. Above it an entresole floor,

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on November 07, 2005, 07:47:55 AM
I have what might seem a dumb question but there seems to be a window missing on the first floor plans. If you were leaving mountain hall and entering portrait hall to your left is a window next to the tall portrait of ALexander I. It appears in outside photos of the palace today and the contempory photos but it does not appear on any plans???
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 07, 2005, 08:11:22 AM
Londo,
What a great catch! This mistake seems to have started with the plans from the Yakovlev book.  Clearly the picture of the portrait hall on the Main Palace site shows the window you mention.  If you go to the section on Quarenghi's designs
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/designs/image33.html
the top picture shows the window opening, and the bottom one omits it.
Thanks for correcting this error which seems to be on all floorplans of the palace except historically accurate ones.
Now we have to go back and fix all our plans.

Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 07, 2005, 01:26:18 PM
Quote
ice-cream and raziye products for the confectioner's shop were stored.


ice-cream and different products
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 07, 2005, 01:28:28 PM
The kitchen building

4.
(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit5.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 07, 2005, 01:40:04 PM
You're doing a a great job of translation, Bob.  We all thank you and appreciate it.

There might to be two stairs to the tunnel.  If you look directly north of number 30 you see a set of 'double-doors' that  appear lead down to the tunnel.  I assume these double doors would keep out drafts and cold air from the tunnel.

At least that is my view.  Any others?

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 07, 2005, 01:49:41 PM
Am I being impatient or missed smoething ? What is #30 ? A courtyard I am supposing. Is this where deliveries would be made ?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 07, 2005, 02:43:08 PM
It is hard to know what #30 is today.  We have to wait for the translations that Bob is so graciously doing. He spends most of his free time in the day doing these many pages of translations for us. He does not speak or read Russian but uses a dictionary...one word at a time.

I was wondering if  #30 is actually  the Central assembly area for the food that goes out to the tunnel.  I did wonder if this is open to the sky but that would be unusual...but you never know. There may be a large 'skylight' window in this room....which is what I suspect.

We have to wait until Vladimir is so kind and  posts the plan of the second floor.

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 07, 2005, 02:50:04 PM
Douglas and  Robert,
Basically the kitchen building, like most Russian Building was a rectangular building built around a central courtyard.  There is a picture in Peter Kurth's book Tsar labeled "Revolutionary guards at the Alexander Palace" which always confused me as it didn't look like the Palace to me.  Now I know it was a picture of the entrance (# 29) through the courtyard (#30) of the kitchen building.
Unfortunately, I don't think I can legally post the picture.  But check out the book.

Douglas,

I think the double doors you refer to are on the main level and lead to the AP.  This was probably the main path to the Palace before the tunnel was built.  It leads to the basement room (# 36) of the AP where you can see the door to the outside as well as the entrance to the tunnel.

Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 07, 2005, 03:42:44 PM
Bob and friends:

I vote for the two stairs from the kitchern building that go into the tunnel

First they appear on the plan from the 1928 book and  it would help to have two stairs so that there would not be a lot of up and down traffic on the stairs at the same time.  One may have been to go down and the other to to go up.  Just my thoughts.

Bob is correct.  The central courtyard kitchen building #30 on the plans is indeed open to the sky.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Modified:

OK.  It seems to me that the Stairs used to go down into the tunnel are on the top left side of plan.  The stairs ones uses to go up are on the right side by the kitchen office.

That way the empty pans would go directly across the courtyard and over to  #8,  the washroom .  The window on the right side is wider than the others and that might be the pass-through window.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 08, 2005, 05:21:26 AM
Thank you both for the info. Personally, I am enjoying these posts- the kitchen and the basement more than any in a very long time. I think it fascinating to see how the palace actually functioned. Family life and the Court are all well and fine but have been discussed to tedium- this is a way to understand how people worked "behind the scenes" so to speak. Having been to the AP myself, now I will try and figure out where on the original plans the cloakroom and restrooms fit in...
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on November 08, 2005, 06:02:55 AM
I'll second that Robert.  

tsaria
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 08, 2005, 06:32:23 AM
Continuing our tour of the Kitchen Building:

18. Kvass branch where monastic and bread kvass was prepared , ice-cream and storage for various products for the confectioner's shop. Above it- entresol floor (mezzanine) on which were located two confectionary muzhik and one pupil - the confectioners served without salary. In the middle there was a table for preparations.

19. A pantry for storage of kvass in ice.

20. A room for cooking sweets and rubbed sugar. In a corner on the exterior wall - a mortar, on the outside wall - table, at a partition - table with a marble board, at a right side wall - a stove, at a back wall a boiler for washing utensils.

21. Biscuit branch, with an oven for baking buiscuits. On opposite walls - two large tables and one small on which sweets were wrapped in paper.

22. A pantry for storage sweets and buscuits. There was a heater to keep the biscuits dry. On the long wall - the big table from with a perpendicular counter. At windows on street - a small little table for recording delivery of sweets. On the walls - glass cases for sweets.

23. Kitchen for all category V employees with a Russian furnace and the center. To the left of the entrance - a sink, then in a corner near the Russian furnace, - a stove. Perpendicular to the wall, was a cabinet and a long table, forming a counter. [I think this is a duplicate from #22. The floorplan doesnt show this in this room. BobG] Nearby - two tables for having dinner, at windows - a table for preparation of foods. Tables were covered with cloths for a dinner and a supper.

24. A silver pantry with a boiler for washing silver and filters-jugs for water.

25. A pantry.

26. Ice Closet.

27. A shed-extension where there was an on duty horse for conveying foods and delivering products.

28. A lavatory.

Almost finished the kitchen building. I wonder what other wonderful treats Vladimir will share with us? :)

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 08, 2005, 11:15:24 AM
Ice storage.  I recall this coming up on a discussion about Titanic catering  methods but do not recall the answer. Did they still import the ice or did they have ice-making machines at this time? Presuming these are state-of-the-art kitchens.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on November 08, 2005, 11:44:52 AM
Vladimir - thank you for all your work and for bringing the plans and the keys to the plans of the Alexander Palace to the Forum.  

BobG - you deserve a medal.   What a remarkable job.

Both of you have been so generous with your time and effort.   I have been lost in amazement and my imagination is painting the most wonderful pictures of days and a way of life that used to be.  

You have breathed life into the Alexander Palace and delivered a living, working organism.

With grateful thanks

tsaria
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 08, 2005, 01:18:52 PM
The second floor of the kitchen building

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit7.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 08, 2005, 01:22:01 PM
The kitchen building

5.
(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit6.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 08, 2005, 01:48:29 PM
Quote
Continuing our tour of the Kitchen Building:
Almost finished the kitchen building. I wonder what other wonderful treats Vladimir will share with us? :)


Thank you very much for the translation!    
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Elocin on November 08, 2005, 10:26:17 PM
Thank you so much for the translations!   The time you must be spending to do this must be immense!

Nicole
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 09, 2005, 05:38:04 AM
Here's page 529.


29. Passage.

30. Court yard.

EXPLANATION

The plan of II-nd floor.


1. Kitchens Linens.

2. A copper pantry (it is separated from a linen by trellised partition.)

3. Lavatory.

4. Room for cooks on-duty (there were 6-8 beds).

5. Room for category I - II cooks.

6 and 7. Rooms of two cooks of I-st category.

8. The senior cook and the storekeeper.

9. Rooms for senior apprentice cooks of I-st category who received a salary and clothes.

10. Passage with a hearth for cooks.

11. Dining room for cooks.

12. A room younger apprentice cooks of II-nd category received an allowance and clothes.

13. Room for the janitors for 6 person, but there were 4-5 beds as the some people were day help.

14., 15 and 16. Kitchen, dining room and bedroom of train waiters who were on duty for two weeks. In the bedroom were three beds. To a table of a dish valets of tsarina submitted, and waiters brought vegetables, sauces, together with wine. (Not sure I understand this or got it right-- Bob G.) ???

17 and 18. The senior storekeeper.

19, 20 and 21. Room of headwaiters on-duty.

22. Room of twelve kitchen muzhiks.


I wonder if the FA will raise me to a higher membership level as a reward for all this work? ;)

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 09, 2005, 05:47:06 AM
BobG,  you are very much appreciated as it is- being a "god" is not all that it may be cracked up to be !
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 09, 2005, 11:53:37 AM
Bob:

At the very least you should be given a Free Pass to the Alexander Palace the next time you visit.

Douglas ;)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 09, 2005, 12:55:49 PM
Quote
13. Dvornitskaja  

The room for the janitors



Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 09, 2005, 12:56:37 PM
Reviewing the whole thread, I don't think we ever posted the translation for the Table of Contents.  Here's my best attempt with questions highlighted in red as usual.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

               Pg.
I.        The General Outline        9
II.        State Appartment       61
III.        Suite of Marie Feodorovna and Tsarevitch Alexander
Aleksandrovicha (Alexander III)        135
IV.        Reserved Suite        217
V.        Nicholas II and Alexandra Feodorovna Suite       243
VI.        Entresol floor        367
VII.        Children's suite        373
VIII.        Retinue suite        441
IX.        The Basement floor        515
X.        The Kitchen wing        524

Appendix I. The act of September, 12th 1917, testifying to additional sending things for Romanovs from the palace to Tobolsk       532

The appendix II. The list of the things located in the palace sent by Nicholas II from kameralnuju chast (his office?) and, partially, taken away by him to Tobolsk.  536

The appendix III. The list of the pictures which were in Nicholas IIs State Apartment and have been removed by the art-historical subcommittee.        542

The appendix IV. The index of artists, masters, factories, factories and the different persons mentioned in the text in connection with furniture        544

Illustrations        553
Corrections        558

Sorry, I can't get the formatting right.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 09, 2005, 01:04:28 PM
Quote
14., 15 and 16. Kitchen, dining room and bedroom of train waiters who were on duty for two weeks. In the bedroom were three beds. To a table of a dish valets of tsarina submitted, and waiters brought vegetables, sauces, together with wine. (Not sure I understand this or got it right-- Bob G.) ???
BobG

... and waiters brought vegetables, sauces and wines.
(It`s the divide of the work between waiters and tsarina`s valets.)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 09, 2005, 01:08:33 PM
The Kitchen wing

The last page

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/kit8.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on November 09, 2005, 05:04:06 PM
This was on the Alexander Palace Site - perhaps it's been buried there - we had a llist of all the kitchen rooms and basement rooms.  Here's the kitchen:

1. Cold Pie Room Pot-pies were baked here.
2. Pie Room In the middle of the room there was a big rectangular table for the pre-baked pot-pies.
3. His Majesty's Own Kitchen Near the side window there was a table for the soup-maker. At the back wall - a small table for the sauce-maker. In the left corner near the entrance lunches and dinners were given out according to categories (II, III & IV). Opposite the stove there were two big tables with the cutlery (knives, spoons, filters, etc.) covered with a table cloth. On the front wall there was an icon made by the workers of the kitchen. There were two basins for running water there.
4. Imperial Cooking Department All raw food stuffs to be prepared for the Imperial family was first brought to this room and placed on the center table. Here lunches and dinners for the Imperial Family and for the suite were prepared and handed over to carriers for transport to the palace. Meats and chops were roasted here as well.
5. Jelly Room Massive ice chests kept this room cool. At the back wall there was an ice-box for the cold hors d'oeuvres for Imperial meals. At the front wall there was a red granite bath full of ice; near it there was a table. There was also a table near the right side wall and another one in the middle of the room. All tables were covered with table cloths and there stood hors d'oeuvres and cold dishes. The door to the next room was always closed.
6. Meat room and Aquarium Live fish were kept here in a massive stone aquarium. There were also a number of ice boxes for meats.
In each room there were several stools and open cupboards on the walls.
7. Passage Under the staircase there was a small store room. Opposite it there was a latticed niche where sauces were kept. At the side window there was a table for chopping meat.
8. Dish Washing Room On the left wall there were latticed shelves for copperware. At the outer wall there was a big table for clean plates and dishes. In the far corner there was a big copper vat for washing dishes and at the back wall there was a big basin for rinsing them.
9. Store Room Between the side and back walls there was a big box with ice for keeping vegetables, meat, chops, products for hors d'oeuvres - ham, fish, caviar, cream, sour cream, butter, etc.
10. Store Room At the outer wall there was a side-board for keeping flour, groats and salt. And a glass box near the left side wall was for keeping tinned goods, spices and fruit.
11. Kitchen Office Payment for food supplies was given out there by check. The head waiter or the storeman made up menus here. Two clerks kept the books and made accounts in this room.
12. Way down to the tunnel
13. Ice House
14. Sawdust Room Sawdust for the kitchen's floors.
15. Coal Storage Room
16. Over Hang Under which stood the garbage wagon.
17. Ice Boxes
Sweet Shop

18. Kvass Department Kvasses and ice-cream were prepared here. Various products for making candies were also kept there. Above this room there was a mezzanine where two pastry-cooks worked with an apprentice.
19. Store Room Here was a ice box for storing kvass.
20. Candy Room Here were all the equipment and supplies for making candy on a marble top table. There was also a stove and a copper basin for washing dishes.
21. Biscuit Making Room
22. Candy and Biscuit Store Room Here was a stove for keeping the biscuits dry. There was a special desk for recording all the buscuits and candies that went out of the room. Near the partition there were glass side-boards for the storage of candy.
23. Servants' KitchenHere servant meals were prepared on served on long tables.
24. Silver Storage and Cleaning Room
25. Store Room
26. Ice Box
27. Shed for the Horse-on-duty
28. Toliet
29. Passage
30. Yard
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on November 09, 2005, 05:33:29 PM
Oh, BobG, you've done a great job! I am one impressed Russian minor!

I'd have pitched in, but I've been laid up with a sinus infection since Halloween.  :-[ Sorry I left you in the lurch...
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on November 09, 2005, 05:41:08 PM
From the AP main page:
Design of Kitchen Building Facade (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/designs/image15.html)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 09, 2005, 05:55:02 PM
Sarushka,
Hope you're feeling better! I've missed your help. But you can clarify some of my unclear translations.

Forum Administrator:
Where have you been with this?  ??? You could have saved me a ton of time and effort.  Is it still on the AP site?

Anyway since I've done this:

Here's the last of the 2nd floor of the kitchen building:

23. Buffet room for the muzhiks.

24. A lobby.

25. Writitng Room.

26. Kamer-Furers office, where travel money and salaries were given out.

27. Linen Closet. Clean linens (bed) were given out to all employees of the kitchen wing.

28. Kitchen of the on-duty Gof-furer of the train.

29. Buffet room for the muzhiks..

30. A room for the on-duty Gof-furera of the train. One was on duty for a whole month, but there were two beds as sometimes they were needed.

31. Post Office Notification, informed various staff about Presentations to Tsar and Tsarina as directed by the Gofmarshal. The same place designated the routine followed during ceremonial, diplomatic and other breakfasts and dinners..

32. The on duty driver at blankare.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Ortino on November 09, 2005, 08:08:14 PM
The link that you gave, Sarah, doesn't work. :-/ I'm quite amazed at the progress you all have made in going through this! I find all the little details and functions of the rooms to be fascinating. Keep up the awesome work! ;D
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on November 10, 2005, 06:03:08 AM
Quote
Sarushka,
Hope you're feeling better! I've missed your help. But you can clarify some of my unclear translations.

Forum Administrator:
Where have you been with this? ??? You could have saved me a ton of time and effort. Is it still on the AP site?

Anyway since I've done this:

Here's the last of the 2nd floor of the kitchen building:

23. Buffet room for the muzhiks.

24. A lobby.

25. Writitng Room.

26. Kamer-Furers office, where travel money and salaries were given out.

27. Linen Closet. Clean linens (bed) were given out to all employees of the kitchen wing.

28. Kitchen of the on-duty Gof-furer of the train.

29. Buffet room for the muzhiks..

30. A room for the on-duty Gof-furera of the train. One was on duty for a whole month, but there were two beds as sometimes they were needed.

31. Post Office Notification, informed various staff about Presentations to Tsar and Tsarina as directed by the Gofmarshal. The same place designated the routine followed during ceremonial, diplomatic and other breakfasts and dinners..

32. The on duty driver at blankare.

BobG




bob, you're absolutely marvelous!    y'all have done a fantastic job.    and so amazingly fast!    i'm as close to speechless as i get!


BRAVO! ... and BRAVA!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 10, 2005, 07:20:56 AM
Vladimir,
Some time ago in this thread you posted the details of the book you're using for these posts.  It included the Russian title and other details.
I have gone back over this thread and can no longer find it.  Was there some reason why you deleted this information?
Can you please repost it?

Thanks.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on November 10, 2005, 10:57:34 AM
Bob:

Yakovlev, V. I. The Alexander Palace-Museum in Detskoye Selo., Decoration, - Leningrad., 1928.

The book consists of 560 pages and illustrations.....



I paid my local main library to do a nationwide, USA, search for this book by Telex [Inter-library Loan], such as all state and university libraries, USA,  etc.,...  no luck.

Of course, that does not mean that the book is not to be found somewhere.

;)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 10, 2005, 12:35:59 PM
Quote
Vladimir,
Some time ago in this thread you posted the details of the book you're using for these posts. It included the Russian title and other details.
I have gone back over this thread and can no longer find it. Was there some reason why you deleted this information?
BobG


I didn`t delete it. See reply # 6.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 10, 2005, 02:35:40 PM
Vladimir,
So sorry-- I guess all this Russian translating has left me a little blind.  Thanks for your patience!
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 11, 2005, 06:44:16 AM
I have a Russian search on for the book as well. It will probably cost a second mortgage but I would like to see the illustrations.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 12, 2005, 06:25:40 AM
To all Translators:

I have gone back and updated my feeble attempts at translation with the corrections and explanations that others have provided (thanks, Vladimir, Sarushka, hikaru and others).
But there are still several items that haven't been clarified, so any and all help would be appreciated on these:

Quote
Let's keep moving forward:

86. State Livery storage; were on duty: one tailor and one prisazhnyj (watchman), otvechavshchy for sohrainost property; walked with gold braid. The tailor served sovereign (sewed buttons) and sluzhashnh. Employee of an overcoat, a three-cornered hat, stockings, boots. (I wonder if this is a description of the uniform of palace servants?) Here stood out


Quote
106.        (41) Porters; two porters and two assistants were on duty monthly; in total there was 8 person; earlier here was kafeshenkskaya.
107.        Pogrebshchikov(Wine Cellar??); on duty one pogrebshchik (wine Steward?)  and two muzhiks by the month; pogrebshchikov were 4, muzhiks - about 10; they came. from the Winter Palace  Regarding the room behind a partition where a plate pogrebshchiki  sold to the staff mainly a rolling stock, vodka bottles and wine-glasses and beer. The cook drank here more than others.
108.        (42) Wine Distribution, there was a rack (Madeira, red wine, port, beer, vodka, English bitters, spirit for waving of hair (can this be right?), ALASCH, dense white wine, etc.). Obtained by the footmen on a note of gofmarshalsloj of a part.
 


Quote

4. Procurement Department. This was where preliminary work on food products was done, work on delivery of breakfasts and dinners to the Imperial Family and their retinue.
At an entrance on the left a a large marble mortar for preparation of sausage for stuffing. Then and there at the windows, a table -- covered by a cloth; at the same wall, in corners-chests with ice. Along the long wall - a table without a cloth; all products from the storerooms were brought to this table, where they were stored and then they were transferred to the Tsar's kitchen by two kitchen muzhiks.
In the same room products and for the others of the court were prepared and sent to other small kitchens, for example on gofmarshal's kitchen IV podezla, to kitchen right podutsirkulja, guardrooms, etc. On another table there was a hot preparation. On the right garden side in a corner stood iron grated box for fire wood.
At a back wall - a spit for roasting different meat and game. Next to it - roshpor on which cutlets and different products were roasted on coals. One sink.
 


Quote
The appendix II. The list of the things located in the palace sent by Nicholas II from kameralnuju chast (his office?) and, partially, taken away by him to Tobolsk.  536



Quote
32. The on duty driver at blankare.


Please help to clarify these items.

Again, I want to personally Vladimir for the time and effort he took to share with us this incredible resource.  It has added so much to my knowledge of the AP and how it worked. Certainly this entire Website is a treasure and the appreciation goes to Bob and Rob for providing us not only their knowledge but making it a valuable resource for sharing information that its members have found.  
Thanks to everyone who adds to our knowledge of a building I have come to love!

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 12, 2005, 06:34:52 AM
hikaru,
In reviewing the thread for the above, I notice no one ever answered your question on English Bitters.  In America, the brand of English bitters most commonly used is Angostura aromatic bitters which has been made since 1830.  The label on the bottle gives recipes for various cocktails, into which DROPS of bitters are added to enhance the flavor. The label also says it can also be used in cooking to enhance flavors.
Thanks for your help in the translations.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on November 12, 2005, 07:56:36 AM
Quote
86. State Livery storage; were on duty: one tailor and one prisazhnyj (watchman), otvechavshchy for sohrainost property; walked with gold braid. The tailor served sovereign (sewed buttons) and sluzhashnh. Employee of an overcoat, a three-cornered hat, stockings, boots. (I wonder if this is a description of the uniform of palace servants?) Here stood out


State Livery storage: on duty were one tailor and one watchman. Distributed in safekeeping was equipment worn with gold braid. The tailor served the soverign (sewing on buttons) and the employees. Here were issued to employees overcoats, hats, tri-corners, stockings, shoes/boots, --
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on November 12, 2005, 08:02:53 AM
Quote
The appendix II. The list of the things located in the palace sent by Nicholas II from kameralnuju chast (his office?) and, partially, taken away by him to Tobolsk


My best guess:
The appendix II. The list of the things located in the palace sent by Nicholas II from his chambers [rooms?] and, partially, taken away by him to Tobolsk.

Kameralnuyu is listed as chambers, or cell; chast' is part or department.

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 12, 2005, 08:57:23 AM
Thanks, Sarushka,

We're almost there!  This has been a wonderful learning experience -- if somewhat daunting!

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 12, 2005, 01:02:14 PM
blankare - I think it`s the name of the cart (dray) or the car model (Blancar).
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 15, 2005, 12:37:51 PM
The pavilion-lavatory for the garden workers near the Kitchen. It was unbuilt in 1896 because Alexandra didn`t like to see it from her windows. ;)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/lav1.JPG)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 15, 2005, 04:06:02 PM
This is probably the same reason the tunnel was built. I'm sure Alexandra didn't want traffic directly under her balcony, either.

Bob G

Anyone else have any thoughts on the questions above on the translations?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 16, 2005, 11:40:44 AM
Quote
In the same room products and for the others of the court were prepared and sent to other small kitchens, for example on gofmarshal's kitchen IV podezla, to kitchen right podutsirkulja, guardrooms, etc. On another table there was a hot preparation. On the right garden side in a corner stood iron grated box for fire wood.
At a back wall - a spit for roasting different meat and game. Next to it - roshpor on which cutlets and different products were roasted on coals. One sink.

and sent to other small kitchens, for example to gofmarshal's kitchen in the IV entrance, to kitchen in the right semi-circle, ... (the Catherine Palace's service buildings placed in a semi-circle around the yard)
At a back wall - a spit for roasting different meat and game. Next to it - roasting-jack on which ...
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 16, 2005, 12:43:23 PM
Thanks, Vladimir.

Not only have you provided the originals, but your translations are greatly appreciated!

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 16, 2005, 08:22:20 PM
I add my personal applause to all of you.
Now, the ice question?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on November 17, 2005, 12:29:24 PM
Quote
Now, the ice question?

What do you mean?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 17, 2005, 11:24:51 PM
Did they have an ice making machine ?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 18, 2005, 07:42:38 AM
Quote
Ice storage.  I recall this coming up on a discussion about Titanic catering  methods but do not recall the answer. Did they still import the ice or did they have ice-making machines at this time? Presuming these are state-of-the-art kitchens.


Robert,
Just thought we should clairfy where your reference to "now the ice question." came from.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator

Although ice houses have been used for thousands of years to provide a source of ice in summer, the first common domestic refrigeration was in the form of ice boxes in the latter years of the 19th Century. As the ice melted it was replaced with ice bought from commercial manufacturers.
In 1856, using the principle of vapour compression, Australian James Harrison produced the world's first practical refrigerator. He was commissioned by a brewery to build a machine that cooled beer.
In 1857, the first refrigerated railway car was introduced by the Chicago meatpacking industry, to prevent spoilage during shipping. In 1866, the first refrigerated railway car to carry fruit was built by Parker Earle of Illinois. The car was used to ship strawberries on the Illinois Central Railroad.

The first domestic refrigerator was apparently manufactured in 1913 by Fred W. Wolf Jnr. in Chicago, and called the DOMELRE (DOMestic ELectric REfrigerator). It was not commercially successful, that distinction apparently going to the Kelvinator Company. This company was formed in May 1916 as the Electro-Automatic Refrigerating Company by Edmund J. Copeland and an industrialist, Arnold H. Gross. The company was renamed within two months to the Kelvinator Company and produced their first model shortly afterwards. Like most of their modern descendents, this refrigerator cooled using a phase change heat pump.

From another location: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator_car

1898: Russia's first refrigerator cars enter service. The country's inventory will reach 1,900 by 1908, grow to 3,000 just two years later, and top out at approximately 5,900 by 1916. The cars were utilized mainly for transporting butter from Siberia to the Baltic Sea (a 12-day journey)."


Knowing that the AP was constantly updated and repaired I am sure that very early on it would have converted to mechanical refrigeration.  At a minimum by the time Livadia was completed in 1911, refrigeration would have been included and then, if not already in the AP kitchen, would have been added there. So food could be kept cool and stored.

As for an ice making machine, I doubt if that had come about yet.  One has to assume that like their European counterparts, ice was not used in drinks, and the supplying of ice probably had become a purchase from the local ice houses.

BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 18, 2005, 08:15:28 AM
Thank you BobG.  The simple answer woud be no. . So, there must have been an ice house nearby if not actually on the palace grounds.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on November 20, 2005, 03:38:13 AM
Quote

Robert,
Just thought we should clairfy where your reference to "now the ice question." came from.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator

Although ice houses have been used for thousands of years to provide a source of ice in summer, the first common domestic refrigeration was in the form of ice boxes in the latter years of the 19th Century. As the ice melted it was replaced with ice bought from commercial manufacturers.
In 1856, using the principle of vapour compression, Australian James Harrison produced the world's first practical refrigerator. He was commissioned by a brewery to build a machine that cooled beer.
In 1857, the first refrigerated railway car was introduced by the Chicago meatpacking industry, to prevent spoilage during shipping. In 1866, the first refrigerated railway car to carry fruit was built by Parker Earle of Illinois. The car was used to ship strawberries on the Illinois Central Railroad.

The first domestic refrigerator was apparently manufactured in 1913 by Fred W. Wolf Jnr. in Chicago, and called the DOMELRE (DOMestic ELectric REfrigerator). It was not commercially successful, that distinction apparently going to the Kelvinator Company. This company was formed in May 1916 as the Electro-Automatic Refrigerating Company by Edmund J. Copeland and an industrialist, Arnold H. Gross. The company was renamed within two months to the Kelvinator Company and produced their first model shortly afterwards. Like most of their modern descendents, this refrigerator cooled using a phase change heat pump.

From another location: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator_car

1898: Russia's first refrigerator cars enter service. The country's inventory will reach 1,900 by 1908, grow to 3,000 just two years later, and top out at approximately 5,900 by 1916. The cars were utilized mainly for transporting butter from Siberia to the Baltic Sea (a 12-day journey)."


Knowing that the AP was constantly updated and repaired I am sure that very early on it would have converted to mechanical refrigeration. At a minimum by the time Livadia was completed in 1911, refrigeration would have been included and then, if not already in the AP kitchen, would have been added there. So food could be kept cool and stored.

As for an ice making machine, I doubt if that had come about yet. One has to assume that like their European counterparts, ice was not used in drinks, and the supplying of ice probably had become a purchase from the local ice houses.

BobG



when i saw this, i wondered about the timeframe...and if there could have been an ice machine or not.     the imperial home, could very well, have had access to innovative technologies that no-one else in russia would have access to for years.....

but i wasn't sure, so i posed a question in another group i belong to.


i asked: did Biltmore House have an ice-machine?

and an answer came from mr. jim murray:

Quote
It did and was part of the origional design of 1890. If you take one on the Behind the Scenes tours of the basement, they show you the room where it was installed and discuss the design and capacity. It made block ice which was then placed in a holding box and then broken up for use and distribution. It was dismanatled during the Second World War and sold for scrap. The concrete base and anchor bolts are still there. Large capacity of bulk ice was not as important at Biltmore as it was for other turn of the century houses, as it was not dependant on ice for refrigeration; as Biltmore had mechanical refrigeration and multiple refrigeration units in the kitchen area and butlers' pantry.



so, at least, we know the technology already existed and could have made it's way into the palace.    and liquid-ammonia refrigeration also existed.    

(i haven't completely missed the point have i?)


Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 20, 2005, 05:59:11 AM
Brian,
I think you've gotten directly to the point.  I think we can assume that the kinds of technology that was available to wealthy Americans would be very similar to that employed by the Imperial Family.
I'm sure the AP had similar refrigeration as Biltmore.  Notice that in the basement room translation refered to General Electric Corp motors, so we can also infere the latest American technology was used here.
Bob
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 24, 2005, 11:18:29 PM
I hope some of you are keeping diligent notes & such on this thread. So as a complete and consise addition to the AP site can be added. I have been noting here & there, but as it came about as I was traveling I am a bit bogged down with it. As I had just returned from the AP itself when this started, I had some books with me that I had just purchased and sort of put notes into pages. Well, now they do not make much sense [hazzard of moving about a lot] so have started to go back from post #1 and try again.
Wish me luck !!

BTW, what is the kitchen building used for now ?  I saw it, I think, but did not know that is what it was. Just going by location after-the-fact.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on November 27, 2005, 03:56:09 PM
Not having checked in this thread for a few days, I just thought I might mention that most if not all of these later questions and issues will be answered by Bob's forthcoming book on the AP.  These questions are exactly the sort of information the book will address. So, that is the reason that we haven't been commenting on them. Bob is always telling me, when we talk about this thread "well I have to save SOMETHING for the book or no one will buy it!!" ;D
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on November 27, 2005, 04:01:31 PM
I doubt very much that Bob need worry about customers for his  book. I for one am in line !
The kitchen building- I wonder if that was indeed it that  I saw. It looked pretty shabby, but as I recall it was the right location.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on November 27, 2005, 06:07:37 PM
The kitchen building was painted the same pale ochre as the Imperial Wing of the Alexander Palace in 2003 in preparation for visits to the Catherine Palace, in particular the Amber Room, by a procession of world heads of state.

The kitchen premises are currently let out to a private organisation.

tsaria
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on November 27, 2005, 07:08:40 PM
Quote
Not having checked in this thread for a few days, I just thought I might mention that most if not all of these later questions and issues will be answered by Bob's forthcoming book on the AP. These questions are exactly the sort of information the book will address. So, that is the reason that we haven't been commenting on them. Bob is always telling me, when we talk about this thread "well I have to save SOMETHING for the book or no one will buy it!!" ;D


I suspect that there will be a good market for the book!  Does Bob have a publisher and/or an approximate publication date?

best,
dca
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 02, 2005, 03:01:57 PM
On closer inspection of the plans there doesn't seem to be any mechanisms or provisions for the Tsars bathtub. The tub itself must have extended into the basement but it does not show on the plans and I understand there was a mechanism for heating the water and filling it. Is this just a simple ommission or were the basement plans done before the tub was in place????
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on December 02, 2005, 03:06:13 PM
Excellent question ! I was wondering what happened to Nicholas' bath as well. I also wish we could find some decent pictures of the thing. I wonder just why it was removed ?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 02, 2005, 03:14:16 PM
BTW on the subject of the ice machine I would say teh palae would have to have had provisions for icemaking since day one since it was designed as a Summer Palace and one of teh chief priorities for summer is to stay cool. My guess it was either part of the Kitchen building or a separate ice house (before mechnaization most assuredly) hardly an important structure to mention since it was probably made fo wood and long since gone but who knows???
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 02, 2005, 03:20:18 PM
As I understand it was removed after the war when it was decided not to restore the Palace as a Romanov museum, also as Bob has explained the Palaces, Peterhof et.al were not restored to show them as home but as historical monuments thus the removal of provate baths, waterclosets, kitchens and pantry facilities etc. As a historian I can say an true interest in social history has only flowered since World War II.
Robert if you look at some of the paintigns done fo rooms on the Winter Palace website you can get an idea of what it might have looked like there is a bath done in the Imperial style. Considering Nicholas's simple taste I kind a enviosn a toned down version of this resembling more a "sauna" that we would be familiar with today, with lots of wood and tile work.
Just my thoughts too I too would like to see a decent picture of it .
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 02, 2005, 03:21:40 PM
On the ice machine...I would say the GE motors someone mentioned earlier were probably associated witht eh making of ice since GE was one fo teh first invovled in such a venture.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 02, 2005, 03:26:56 PM
Here is a thought to ponder for students of architecture take a look at the basement plan underneath the Maple and New Study's and then the same are above the second floor, compare it to the Quarenghi's original plan when a music room occupied the space. We can see the area would have required load bearing support for the upper floor?????? Gives one a sense of what the music room would have looked like!!!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on December 02, 2005, 04:13:41 PM
Tsar's Bath:

In the basement area under the Tsar's bath we can see a very large boiler tank that was used to heat the water for the bath.

Douglas
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 03, 2005, 08:28:54 AM
Good call Douglas I thought thats what that was but I wasn't sure...but it still doesn't answer the question of how far into the basement the tub went
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on December 03, 2005, 08:36:50 AM
Quote
As I understand it was removed after the war when it was decided not to restore the Palace as a Romanov museum, also as Bob has explained the Palaces, Peterhof et.al were not restored to show them as home but as historical monuments thus the removal of provate baths, waterclosets, kitchens and pantry facilities etc. As a historian I can say an true interest in social history has only flowered since World War II.
Robert if you look at some of the paintigns done fo rooms on the Winter Palace website you can get an idea of what it might have looked like there is a bath done in the Imperial style. Considering Nicholas's simple taste I kind a enviosn a toned down version of this resembling more a "sauna" that we would be familiar with today, with lots of wood and tile work.
Just my thoughts too I too would like to see a decent picture of it .


There are pictures and discussion of the Tsar's bathroom on the main AP site.  Here's the link:

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/bathroom.html
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 03, 2005, 01:12:09 PM
The pictures and description are good but there are little details concerning the tub as well as the tub area and the photo only shows the fireplace!!!
I was merely speculating on what it might have llooked like in the areas one cannot see.

Below in the basement room if you match is up with the tub there is a load bearing wall in the way so the tub must have sloped down on an angle with the deep part being in the room next to the boiler.

As for teh tub area on the ground floor we know it was raised about two feet above the main floor and therre were thigns hanging on the wall...and it was done in a turkish style.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on December 03, 2005, 02:41:29 PM
The floor of the tub in the Tsar's bath would have been flat.  The depth of those kinds of tubs was approx. three & one-half or four feet.

There is usually a seat at one end so that you can sit down, with your head above the water.

Yes, Londo,  you are correct, the bathroom of the Tsar was done up Turkish style.  It was like entering another world.

Turkish baths were the rage in those days so I am sure the Tsar thought the whole affair was most up to date.

Douglas

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on December 04, 2005, 08:28:25 AM
Thank you for the info !!!
Much appreciated!!!! I bet it was a wonder to see if it came anywhere close to the turkish styles of some of the baths at the winter palace
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: hikaru on December 29, 2005, 12:34:04 AM
Turkish bathes was popular in Russia since 18th century,
since Potyomkin took the Crimea from Osmans.
Not only in the beginning of the 20th century.


I wonder, how they utilised the garbage in AP?
Did they have some kind of a small garbage-burning plant?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Joanna on January 02, 2006, 04:06:49 PM
Quote
The pictures and description are good but there are little details concerning the tub as well as the tub area and the photo only shows the fireplace!!!
I was merely speculating on what it might have llooked like in the areas one cannot see.


I have a photograph of the tub and area surrounding it. For all the references to the Moorish style, there is very little of it in the tub area itself. From the sofa to the left (along top is width to hold photographs and knicknacks), there is a little step (height of dark tiles) up into the tub. Around the rim of the tub, there is a plain pattern with a width of a tile. To the right is the railing with a shower curtain and rod to close off the tub. When standing at the tub, the far wall has what appears to be a repititious pattern almost like bricks with a bas relief motif higher up and then a valance. The tub is plain white tiles.

Joanna
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 03, 2006, 12:52:56 AM

I cleaned the plan of Wladimir. I corrected the dimentions by rectifying the original drawing. It is closer to reality. For an impression of quality, one needs 300 dpi at least. The original has only 72 dpi.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 03, 2006, 12:54:18 AM
The basement floor :

(http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4492/ap1basementpodval2116original7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 03, 2006, 12:58:17 AM
The main floor :

(http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/9550/ap2main15original72dpi12920jz.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 03, 2006, 01:01:24 AM
The entresol ( Mezzanine ) floor :

(http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/8818/ap3mezzanineentresol11original.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 03, 2006, 01:03:44 AM
The second floor :

(http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/839/ap4second13original72dpi12924m.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 03, 2006, 01:06:05 AM
The main floor with color :

(http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/3672/ap5main16original72dpi12927oy.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on January 03, 2006, 06:34:15 AM
Reco,
You've done a great job of recreating these floorplans.  They are really clear and can help us all with scaling the palace and understanding it more.
Thanks for the effort and for sharing it with us.
Bob G
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: James1941 on January 03, 2006, 10:13:10 AM
Is there a page on this thread that tells what each number on these floor plans means? I apologize for not keeping current. And I add my appreciation to all who worked to bring us these plans. Hurrah to you.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: gleb on January 03, 2006, 10:53:51 AM
THANKS  LOT,  Reco!!

What you did is a wonderful thing!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 03, 2006, 11:00:45 AM
James, I am afraid you will simply have to start from the begining- the numbers are translated on several early pages, not just one ! Excellent job, btw.
As for the logistics of living and working in the palace- it sure does not look like an easy house to run. Lots of leg work getting from one place to another.  Baths and wcs seem few and far between.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: leushino on January 03, 2006, 01:38:58 PM
I'm speechless! The talent and work done in this thread is a testimony to the dedication of these members to the AP forum and beyond. A heart-felt thank you to all.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 03, 2006, 02:54:50 PM

Thank you very much. All that was possible with the plans of Wladimir. It is especially necessary to thank Wladimir.

Reco
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 03:39:14 PM
Quote
Is there a page on this thread that tells what each number on these floor plans means? I apologize for not keeping current. And I add my appreciation to all who worked to bring us these plans. Hurrah to you.

I've PMed you, James.

FYI -- I compiled a listing of the complete floorplan key translations we did this fall. I can post the list here, or anyone interested can PM me if you'd like me to email the files.

Reco -- thank you for all your work! This makes everything clear & easy to see at a glance.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 03, 2006, 03:54:58 PM
I for one would appreciate that very much. I have  them printed out but they are several pages, as the translations were being worked on. An excellent idea indeed !
Cheers,
Robert
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: James1941 on January 03, 2006, 06:56:58 PM
Sarushka:
I sent you a private message about the room numbers.
Thanks so much for your help.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:26:37 PM
Ok, here goes... I'll have to break this into multiple posts, since it's so big.

notes:
*red text indicates untranslated segments
**blue indicates a comment by a translator
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:28:05 PM
Basement:
1. The buttery for the fruit
2. The servant`s washstand
3. The furnace for the first entry
4. Lavatory [3 stalls]
5. Pantry for cleaning implements, where the crowbar & spade were found with which the Tsar worked.
6. (No. 1)* Proper buffet of their majesties. In it are two kettles for boiling water. Here, coffee brewed, milk, cream, and chocolate boiled. In the back right corner, -- the boiler for the bathroom of Aleksandra Fyodorovna, and the bath on the mezzanine for the children and the Englishwomen, who used the system of baths on the second floor.
* In parenthhesis is indicated the old numbers, preserved on the doorways of the quarters.
7. Passage into the stairway to the 1st [floor?] entrance. By door No. 11 (on the left) is the entrance to telephone post No. 3.
8. Hydraulic hoist machine.
9. (No. 2) On-duty officers of the combined regiment. a --- telephone booth for talking with the sentry. [Followed by a very long sentence I haven't translated yet!]
10. (No. 4) Larder at the disposal of Alexandra Fyodorovna (later was the combined berth of the on-duty officers).
11. (No. 5) Buffet of the chamber-yungfer and the young ladies.
12. (No. 6) Driver and footman of Aleksandra Fyodorovna, who were on duty in shifts of two weeks.
13. (No. 7 ) On-duty Operator - Post No. 2 through corridor, with door on the left
14. (No. 8 ) Apparatus with which water was heated for the personell's apartments, and the children's half, from the direction of the corridor, opposite the kettkes in alcove No. 9 technician's cabinet. Here was housed the regulators for heating and ventilation.
15. Battery for re-warming of ventilated air (for fresh air entering the window-grates in place of transomes).
16. Filters bumazeinye
17. Supercharged General Electric Corp. eletric motor variable current for ventilation of the personnel apartments.
18. Telephone of past time.
18a. Telephone, at the time of the last tsar, was together with the cross-town eliminated.
19. (No. 11) Room of the footmen (locals).
20. (No. 11) Footman of the children's floor (on duty in monthly shifts).
21. Quarters of the cloakroom attendant to Aleksandra Fyordorovna, Laduiga.
22. (No. 12) Boiler for the pool of Nikolai II.
23. Storage of filters (pasterovskikh). [Something to do with pasteurization?]
24. Cloakroom attendant of the tsar.
25. Local footmen of the tsar and tsaritsa.
26. Riding breeches and riding equipment of Nikolai II.
27. (No. 13) Passage into instructions above 3 quarters and to stairs leading to the valet and to the cloakroom.
28. Water boiler for the bath quarters of the children's floor.
29. Buffet of the officers of the combined regiment.
30. Pantry of Nicholas II
31. Pantry for the trunks of the Tsarina
32. Quarters of the men of the children's floor.
33. Transformer (for the demands of the supercharged high tension current engine).
34. Admittance post of the combined regiment.
35. Supervisor of the combined regiment.
36. Descent into the tunnel.
37. Room of the officers of the guard.
38. Guards' quarters of the combined regiment. Here on the 9th of March, 1917, S. Mstislavski appealed to the soldiers of the 2nd Tsarskoeseloski rifle regiment and indicated that they hand over to the Okhrana the matter of the tsar and his family, and convinced them not to leave without the command of the Petrogradski Executive Committee.
39. & 39a. W.C. for the officers of the combined regiment guard.
40. Storage for electirc hot water bottles of the personal rooms of the tsar, tsarina, and the children.
41. Hot water boiler for the corner parlour of Aleksandra Fyodorovna, the two libraries, and the hall behind them -- battery.
42. Quarters of the guard escort.
43. Dog's kitchen.
44. Quarters where the gardener arranged flowers (also filter storage).
45. Linen pantry.
46. Personal staff kitchen with hearth, pastry oven, Russian oven in which the oil was heated for blini, kettles for heating water, skewers and roshporom for roasting shish kebab in birch[?] corner. Evidently, the staff kitchen was in the basement of the palace as far back as the time of Nikolai I. In any case, in 1858 it was renovated by the contractor Pavlovym for 1,850 rubles under the supervision of Colonel Ladygin.
47. Pantry attatched to the kitchen, with icebox.
48. Chamber for the battery of the water heater with a boiler under the floor for inflow of fresh air.
49. Pantry
50. Hot water boiler for the slide hall, libraries, and pantries along the open hall.
51. Plumber's workshop.
52. Lavatory.
53. Flue of the pneumatic furnace (in a boiler plate box) and the 11th entrance.
54. Electrical engineer's room.
55. Gardener's pantry, where flowers were kept for the tables and passageway to the stairs.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:28:50 PM
Basement, con't:
56. Expense Buffet or cafeteria with both kettles and a hearth. Coffe, milk, cream, tea, sugar, and rolls were dispensed here for all palace employees. From here came the smell of coffee through all the halls.  
57. Quarters of the buffet workers.
58. Storage for the trunks of the tsaritsa.
59. Checkpoint, in it a partition for the electrician's storage.
60. Storage of Aleksandra Fyodorovna.
61. Storage of the children's floor.
62. Storage of Nikolai II.
63. Storage for firewood.
64. Storage for beer boxes, wine cellar (latticed partition).
65. Storage for brooms, shovels, rope etc. watchcman Shchikachev, head of garden staff. Firewood delivered on wheelbarrows by the gardeners.  
66. Hot water kettle [boiler?] for semicircular and portrait halls.
67. & 68. Storage of the tsaritsa's cloakroom attendant, Ladunga. In No. 67 was put away any/all sorts of furniture after musicians, in No. 68 -- slipcovers with furniture.  
69. Lavatory
70. Connecting housing with room with hot water boilers for the charwomen.
71. Connecting housing with pantry for the battery for the electric bells.
72. Storage of the architectural foreman.
73. Passage to 2 service staircases, and behind a partition, houseing for the transformer for the movie projector.  
74. Hot water kettle for the former billiard hall, arcade (more precisely, the church) and the third entry.  
75. Room of the floor polishers [can refer to men or machines].
76. Pantry for copper ware [could be dishes and/or utensils].
77.  The Passage where at certain times daily firewood was brought from a material court yard.
78. The firemen's room. Four were on duty each day. Also direct heat furnace for heating the III-th entrance.  
79. The storeroom for fire tools.
80. (23) Plumber's room. Two plumbers and three stokers were on duty in shifts.
81. (24) Waiter's room. Four were on monthly duty.
82. (25) Senior footmen of a rolling stock [I assume this means Imperial trains]. There were two, on monthly duty.  
83. The Room of 2 barbers - Dmitriev and Ivanov. They were on duty monthly and served mainly footmen. Ivanov also cut the tsar's hair, was his favourite and traveled with him, each time he worked for him, he got 10 roubles from the tsar for tip. Also there was a visiting barber.
84. Chambers-cossacks of tsarina.
85. State Livery storage; on duty were one tailor and one watchman. Distributed in safekeeping was equipment worn with gold braid. The tailor served the soverign (sewing on buttons) and the employees. Here were issued to employees overcoats, hats, tri-corners, stockings, shoes/boots Here stood out _____
86. For dirty table linens.
87. For clean table linens.
88. Counter-workers; on-duty by the month; here stood six beds.
89. (32) Wine cellar.
90. (33) Category II footmen; were on duty by the month; there were 5 beds; in all were 50 people.
91. (34) Category I footmen; 4 persons by the month were on duty; all was 8.
92. (35) Room for blackamoors on duty; 2 persons on two weeks were on duty; all was 4.
93. (36) Chambers- furerov.
94. The Electro-motor, a variable single-phase current, for the Siemens- Wukert's  elevator.
95. The Pantry.
96.   (37) Gofmarshal'dkaya kitchen with a marble bowl (before everywhere were such, but them have rejected as deep and badly washed out), the hearth, the pastry oven, the oven for baking Shrovetide pancakes and skewers for grilled shish kebabs.
97. Water-heating for a bath.
98. The Bath for serving personnel.
99. Washstands.
100. The Pantry.
101. The Pantry gof-furera for carved oredmetob (a brush, a sponge, vacuum cleaners and so forth).
102. The Corridor of IV entrance (pass).
103. (No 38 ) Gof-furerova Vas. Vas. SHalberova
104. (39) Dining room of the category V footmen. On duty here muzhiks sold wine-glasses of vodka to the staff for money.
105. (40) Assistants to  Waiters, serving at the Tsar's private buffet; four persons monthy were on duty; in total there was 8 person; there were 4 beds.
106. (41) Porters; two porters and two assistants were on duty monthly; in total there was 8 person; earlier here was cafeteria.
107. Pogrebshchikov [Wine Cellar?]; on duty one pogrebshchik [wine steward?]  and two muzhiks by the month; pogrebshchikov were 4, muzhiks - about 10; they came. from the Winter Palace  Regarding the room behind a partition where a plate pogrebshchiki sold to the staff mainly a rolling stock, vodka bottles and wine-glasses and beer. The cook drank here more than others.
108. (42) Wine dispensary, there was a rack (Madeira, red wine, port, beer, vodka, English bitters, alcohol for waving of hair, alash, dense white wine, etc.). Obtained by the footmen on a note of gofmarshal'skoi chasti.
109. (43) Assistants to Goffur'erov.
110. (44) Runners; two were on duty by the month; all four persons. In 1843 the room has been separated from the large entrance hall and corridor by a stone wall without windows for installation of the battery for the animator of electro-magnetic telegraph.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:30:42 PM
The Main Floor:

The Parade Rooms:
1.   Aleksandra`s Corner Reception Room (The Formal Reception Room)
2.   The Library
3.   The Library
4.   The Library
5.   The Library
6.   The room for the doorkeepers  
7.   The second entrance hallway
8.   The staircase to the second floor
9.   The Mountain Hall
10. The Portrait Hall
11. The Semi Circular Hall
12. The Marble Drawing Room (The Billiard Hall)
13. The Buffet
14. The Buffet
15. The staircases to the second floor and to the basement
16. The passage from The Open Hall to the Semi Circular Hall
17. The room for the movie projector

Maria Feodorovna and Aleksander`s rooms:
18. The Maria Feodorovna`s Bathroom
19. The White (or Red) Drawing Room
20. The Red Dining Room
21. The Anteroom
22. The room for the doorkeepers
23. The passage from the third entrance
24. The staircase to the second floor
25. The Palace Chapel
26. The Wardrobe  
27.  The Maid`s Room (Kamer-yungferskaya) with the alcove
28. The wooden staircase to the mezzanine and the second floor
29. The Bedroom
30. The Boudoir
31. The room before the Chapel
32. The Small Chapel
33. The Blue Drawing Room
34. The Oaken Hallway
35. The Passage
36. The Reserved Room
37. The Reception Room
38. The Dining Room
39. The Study
40. The Dressing Room (with the alcove)
41. The on-duty officer`s room
42. The on-duty officer`s room
43. The Hallway
44. The lobby of the IVth entrance and the passages
45. The staircases to the second floor
46. The room for the doorkeepers

The Reserved Suite
47. Elizabeth Fyodorovna`s room
48. The staircase to the mezzanine
49. The Wardrobe
50. The Bedroom (English Suite)
51. The Drawing Room (English Suite)
52. The Study (English Suite)
53. The Dressing Room (English Suite)
54.  The Valet`s Room
55. The Buffet with the staircase to the mezzanine and to the second floor
56. The Passage

Nicholas`s and Aleksandra`s Rooms
57. The Lobby
58. The Buffet
59. The Passageways
60. The Duty Room of the Aleksandra`s wardrobe mistress
61. The furnace (to boil the water for the buffet)
62. The staircases to the second floor
63. The Reception Room
64. The Working Study (the Old Study)
65. The Dressing Room
66. The Wardrobe
67. The Valet`s Room
68. The Large Study (the New Study)
69. The Hallway
70. The Maple Drawing Room (The Boudoir)
71. The Palisander (Rosewood) Drawing Room
72. The Lilac (Mauve) Study
73. The Bedroom
74. The Dressing Room
75. The Bathroom
76. The Maid`s Room
77. The Wooden Staircase (to the mezzanine and to the second floor)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:31:27 PM
Mezzanine:
1. The Aleksandra's Wardrobe (not extant)
2. The Tsar`s Wardrobe (not extant)
3. The Bathroom (not extant)
4. The room of the Tsar`s valet (not extant)
5. The room of the wardrobe mistress (not extant)
6. The Balcony of the Maple Room (not extant)
7. The Balcony of the Tsar`s New Study (extant)
8. The room for the Aleksey`s things
9. The room of the Maria Fyodorovna`s wardrobe mistress
10. The Maria Fyodorovna`s Wardrobe
11. The room of the servants
12. The room of the servants
13. The room of the Elizaveta Fyodorovna`s servant
14. The room of the duty officer's help (in Russian: sluzhitel dezhurnogo fligel-ad`yutanta)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:32:03 PM
The Second Floor:

1.   The Passageway
2.   The Buffet
3.   The Aleksandra`s Wardrobe
4.   The hallway with the jut of the elevator (The Glass Roofed Upper Corridor)
5.   The Entry
6.   The Dining Room
7.   The Drawing Room (The Girl`s Reception Room)
8.   The Elder Girl`s Classroom
9.   The Bathroom
10. The Elder Girl`s Bedroom
11. The Junior Girl`s Bedroom
12. The Aleksey`s Playroom
13. The Aleksey`s Bedroom
14. The Derevenko`s Room
15. The Aleksey`s Classroom
16. The Aleksey`s Bathroom
17. The Music Room (the Cinema Room)
18. The Aleksey`s Hallway
18a. The Hallway behind the Cinema Room
19. The Aleksey`s Reception Room
20. The Aleksey`s Buffet
21. The Servants` Bathroom
22. The Gilliard `s Bathroom
23. The Gilliard `s Study
24. The Gilliard `s Bedroom
25. The room of the doctors on duty
26. The Sailor Nagorny`s Room
27. The room of the Gilliard`s servant
28. The Hallway
29. The Chambermaids` Bathroom
30. Chambermaid Elizabeth Ersberg
31. Chambermaid Anna Utkina
32. Major Chambermaid Aleksandra Tegleva  
33. Zanotti`s Chambermaid Elizabeth Eltso (Eltser)
34. Aleksandra`s Lady in Waiting (on Duty)
35. Maid Madeline Zanotti
36. Maid Maria Tutleberg
37. The Junior Girls` Classroom

The Part of the Retinue
38. The First Servant`s Room
39. The Second Servant`s Room
40. The Hallway
41. The Drawing Room
42. The Bedroom
43. The Bathroom
44. The Reserved Room (Dressmaker Shneider)
45. The Servant`s Room
46. The Servant`s Room
47. The Buffet
48. The Hallway (The Passage)
48a. The Light Hallway
49. The Study
50. The Boudoir
51. The Bedroom
52. The Corner Drawing Room
53. The Wardrode and the Ironing Room
54. The Reserved Room for the servants of the guests
55. The Reserved Room for the guests
56. The Hallway
57. The Passage
58. The Benkendorf`s Room
59. The Benkendorf`s Bedroom
60. The Benkendorf`s Drawing Room
61. The Buksgevden`s Drawing Room
62. The Buksgevden`s Bedroom
63. The room of the Buksgevden`s servant
64. The Wardrobe
65. The Orbeliani`s Drawing Room
66. The Orbeliani`s Room
67. The Orbeliani`s Room
68. The Obolenskaya`s Room
69. The Obolenskaya`s Bedroom
70. The Obolenskaya`s Drawing Room
71. The Reserved Room for the guests
72. The Buffet
73. The Buffet
74. The Buffet
75. The Buffet
76. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
77. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
78. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
79. The Glass Roofed Corridor
80. The Passage

#38-43 The Catherine Scneider`s apartment
#49-52 The rooms of Alexander III`s children (The rooms of young Nicholas)
#61-70 The rooms of the lady-in-waiting
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:33:19 PM
Kitchen, 1st Floor: (AP Translations posted by FA)
1. Cold Pie Room Pot-pies were baked here.
2. Pie Room In the middle of the room there was a big rectangular table for the pre-baked pot-pies.
3. His Majesty's Own Kitchen Near the side window there was a table for the soup-maker. At the back wall - a small table for the sauce-maker. In the left corner near the entrance lunches and dinners were given out according to categories (II, III & IV). Opposite the stove there were two big tables with the cutlery (knives, spoons, filters, etc.) covered with a table cloth. On the front wall there was an icon made by the workers of the kitchen. There were two basins for running water there.
4. Imperial Cooking Department All raw food stuffs to be prepared for the Imperial family was first brought to this room and placed on the center table. Here lunches and dinners for the Imperial Family and for the suite were prepared and handed over to carriers for transport to the palace. Meats and chops were roasted here as well.
5. Jelly Room Massive ice chests kept this room cool. At the back wall there was an ice-box for the cold hors d'oeuvres for Imperial meals. At the front wall there was a red granite bath full of ice; near it there was a table. There was also a table near the right side wall and another one in the middle of the room. All tables were covered with table cloths and there stood hors d'oeuvres and cold dishes. The door to the next room was always closed.
6. Meat room and Aquarium Live fish were kept here in a massive stone aquarium. There were also a number of ice boxes for meats.
In each room there were several stools and open cupboards on the walls.
7. Passage Under the staircase there was a small store room. Opposite it there was a latticed niche where sauces were kept. At the side window there was a table for chopping meat.
8. Dish Washing Room On the left wall there were latticed shelves for copperware. At the outer wall there was a big table for clean plates and dishes. In the far corner there was a big copper vat for washing dishes and at the back wall there was a big basin for rinsing them.
9. Store Room Between the side and back walls there was a big box with ice for keeping vegetables, meat, chops, products for hors d'oeuvres - ham, fish, caviar, cream, sour cream, butter, etc.
10. Store Room At the outer wall there was a side-board for keeping flour, groats and salt. And a glass box near the left side wall was for keeping tinned goods, spices and fruit.
11. Kitchen Office Payment for food supplies was given out there by check. The head waiter or the storeman made up menus here. Two clerks kept the books and made accounts in this room.
12. Way down to the tunnel
13. Ice House
14. Sawdust Room Sawdust for the kitchen's floors.
15. Coal Storage Room
16. Over Hang Under which stood the garbage wagon.
17. Ice Boxes

Sweet Shop
18. Kvass Department Kvasses and ice-cream were prepared here. Various products for making candies were also kept there. Above this room there was a mezzanine where two pastry-cooks worked with an apprentice.
19. Store Room Here was a ice box for storing kvass.
20. Candy Room Here were all the equipment and supplies for making candy on a marble top table. There was also a stove and a copper basin for washing dishes.
21. Biscuit Making Room
22. Candy and Biscuit Store Room Here was a stove for keeping the biscuits dry. There was a special desk for recording all the buscuits and candies that went out of the room. Near the partition there were glass side-boards for the storage of candy.
23. Servants' KitchenHere servant meals were prepared on served on long tables.
24. Silver Storage and Cleaning Room
25. Store Room
26. Ice Box
27. Shed for the Horse-on-duty
28. Toliet
29. Passage
30. Yard
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 03, 2006, 08:34:34 PM
Kitchen, 2nd Floor: (translations posted by BobG.)

EXPLANATION
The plan of II-nd floor.
1. Kitchens Linens.
2. A copper pantry (it is separated from a linen by trellised partition.)
3. Lavatory.
4. Room for cooks on-duty (there were 6-8 beds).
5. Room for category I - II  cooks.
6 and 7. Rooms of two cooks of I-st category.
8. The senior cook and the storekeeper.
9. Rooms for senior apprentice cooks of I-st category who received a salary and clothes.
10. Passage with a hearth for cooks.
11. Dining room for cooks.
12. A room younger apprentice cooks of II-nd category received an allowance and clothes.
13. Room for the janitors for 6 person, but there were 4-5 beds as the some people were day help.
14., 15 and 16. Kitchen, dining room and bedroom of train waiters who were on duty for two weeks. In the bedroom were three beds. To a table of a dish valets of tsarina submitted, and waiters brought vegetables, sauces, and wine.
17 and 18. The senior storekeeper.
19, 20 and 21. Room of headwaiters on-duty.
22. Room of twelve kitchen muzhiks.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 04, 2006, 12:09:24 AM
Brilliant, Sarushka !. I was starting to  hand-write out all the various page notes but you spared me writers cramp ! Thank you and everyone else, especially Waldimir & Reco for all the work done for the benefit of us all.
Cheers are indeed in order !
Robert
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on January 04, 2006, 05:04:51 AM
Reco and Sarushka

Thank you have both for all your work.   You have done a wonderful job.  

There has been a surfeit of riches over the past few days -
Robert Hall's fantastic aerial photograph, Reco's plans and
Sarushka's keys.  

Between the three of you, you have done so much to bring the Alexander palace alive.

With thanks

tsaria

ps:  could someone with the technical know-how re-post Robert's photograph on this thread and the picture is complete?   Thanks.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 04, 2006, 12:09:16 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Markhall/HappyHo_HO0009.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on January 04, 2006, 12:52:13 PM
FANTASTIC - Thanks Robert.   The picture is complete.    

Many thanks again to everyone who put in so much time, thought, care and effort into bringing together this most comprehensive of studies of the Alexander Palace.

tsaria
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 04, 2006, 07:42:35 PM
What might be even a bit more interesting would be to map out the current rooms that are on view- match them with the original and contemporary photgraphs. I can do it here, at home- ON PAPER but have no clue as to how do do it on the computer.
The way the rooms are configured now, I think not more than 8 or 9 are actually open to view.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 05, 2006, 10:38:35 AM
One more addition! :)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/parkchart.jpg)

1 Catherine Palace
2 Alexander Palace


Catherine Park
3 Church building
4 Zubov's building
5 Circumference
6 Upper Bath
7 Lower Bath
8 Hermitage
9 Hermitage Kitchen
9a Grotto

Architectural Ensemble of Charles Cameron
10 Cold Baths
10 Agate Rooms
11 Cameron Gallery
12 Private Park
13 Admiralty
14 Hall on the Island
15 Chesme Column
16 Turkish Bath
17 Marble Bridge
18 Pyramid
19 Tower Ruins
20 Orlov (Gatchina) Gates
21 Red (Turkish) Cascade
22 Gothic Gates
23 "Girl with a Pitcher" Fountain
24 Granite Terrace
25 Kagul Obelisk
26 Lanskoy Monument
27 Concert Hall
28 Kitchen Ruins
29 Evening Hall
30 Creaking Pagoda
31 Morey Column
32 The Gates "For My Dear Comrades"

Alexander Park
33 Kurtina "Gribok"
34 Parnassus Artificial Hill
35 Chinese Theater (Opera House)
36 Dragon Bridge
37 Large Chinese Bridge
38 Cross Bridge
39 Chinese Village
40 Small and Great Caprice
41 Chapelle
42 White Tower
43 Arsenal
44 Pensioners' Stables
45 Horse Cemetery
46 Ruins of the Llama Pavilion
47 Farm Complex
48 Children's House
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 05, 2006, 10:41:28 AM
Quote
What might be even a bit more interesting would be to map out the current rooms that are on view- match them with the original and contemporary photgraphs. I can do it here, at home- ON PAPER but have no clue as to how do do it on the computer.
The way the rooms are configured now, I think not more than 8 or 9 are actually open to view.

I think that's a great idea, Robert. If you can do it by hand, I might be able to convince my dad to enter the info into his computer's architecture program...
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 05, 2006, 01:51:20 PM
Well, all of the pictures are posted already, just in different places  ! The AP site itself has a nice "tour" with the archivals.  I was thinking of combining those with what a visitor sees today ???

In any case, where is the kitchen building on the map ? Perhaps of no consequnce so not identified ?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on January 05, 2006, 02:41:37 PM
Robert - To the right of the Alexander Palace, there is a road named 'Sadovaya Street'.   The Kitchen is sited between the entrance to the Alexander Palace close to the top of the pond.   The Kitchen opens directly on to the street.

tsaria
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 05, 2006, 02:48:57 PM
Thank you, Tsaria. It is the building I thought then. We passed it everal times and I thought it might have been the kitchens. Now I wish we had taken pictures !
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 05, 2006, 11:49:05 PM
I wrote kitchen in red below the building

(http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4949/tsarskoemap1hj.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 05, 2006, 11:52:54 PM
I wrote kitchen in black opposite the building

(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9561/planoftheparksofgpushkina1990g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 06, 2006, 02:08:55 AM
(http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/5431/ap2mainleft11original72dpi1292.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: ChristineM on January 06, 2006, 04:11:21 AM
Thanks Reco for the maps.  

Your montage is superb.   You have succeeded in making the current 'mocked-up' rooms look closer to the original than I would ever have imagined possible.

Congratulations and thank you.

tsaria  
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 06, 2006, 08:22:09 AM
Thank you very much !
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 06, 2006, 10:07:45 AM
WOW!!
:o
Tremendous, Reco!
Thank you!
:D


Is Anna Vyrubova's house visible on the larger of the two maps Reco posted?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 06, 2006, 01:07:20 PM
#58 is the bookstand [in my avatar, with the kitten]
#61  ticket counter and #62 stairs to the cloakroom and lav.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 06, 2006, 07:52:25 PM
Quote
Is Anna Vyrubova's house visible on the larger of the two maps Reco posted?

Found it! It's the little orange building below and to the right of the AP, on the corner of Tserkovnaya Ulitsa.

Robert -- I'd love to see a larger version of your avatar photo!  :D
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 08, 2006, 04:20:29 PM
If you turn over to the plans of pages 10 and 11, I have include a scale in Feet .

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9201/ap1originaldimention72dpi12921.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 08, 2006, 10:46:40 PM
Here some figures concerning approximate dimensions of the palace:

the width of the Imperial Residence aisle is 88,5' (the 'internal' width is indeed 80')
the External or Park facade length of the aisle is 209,5'
the Internal or Courtyard length of the aisle is 67'
the inside/courtyard width between aisles is 320'
thus the total length across the Palace is 497' (88,5'x2+320')

(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1626/ap1main0main16original72dpi129.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)

The FA said Jan 29 2004 :

According to the plan drawn up for the World Monuments Fund survey of the Alexander Palace the dimensions are:

the width of the Imperial Residence aisle is 80' (the 'internal' width is indeed 74')
the External or Park facade length of the aisle is 205'
the Internal or Courtyard length of the aisle is 72'
the inside/courtyard width between aisles is 245'
thus the total length across the Palace is 405' (80'x2+245')

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 09, 2006, 11:03:59 PM
Many thanks to all.

I would still like to thank Wladimir for the plans and the description of the rooms which it liberally divided with us.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 10, 2006, 09:04:57 PM
I used dimensions ( in red ) according to World Monuments Fund survey. Here the result :

(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4995/ap1main0main17original72dpi129.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)

I believe that their dimensions are erroneous.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 28, 2006, 10:09:51 AM
Architectural plans for Aleksei's rooms, 1913:
(http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3817/srooms19135za.th.jpg) (http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=srooms19135za.jpg)
(sorry for the cut-off on the right side -- it's the best I could do without breaking the book in half...)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 28, 2006, 12:51:27 PM
Thank you very much, Sarushka. I never see that floorplans before. Which is the scale used for these plans? arshin ? sazhen ? I am not able to read it on the scale.

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 28, 2006, 04:52:24 PM
Quote
Thank you very much, Sarushka. I never see that floorplans before. Which is the scale used for these plans? arshin ? sazhen ? I am not able to read it on the scale.

The print is very small, even on the original, but I believe it says "arsh" on the left-hand side of the scale. I would imgine that's the abbreviation for arshen? On the right-hand side, I can't make out the letters very well -- all I'm sure of is that the word (or abbreviation )starts with a cyrillic letter "c."
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Forum Admin on January 28, 2006, 06:14:31 PM
I hope this helps you guys:
(http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/forumimages/AlexiRmMap.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 28, 2006, 08:24:37 PM
Thank you, Rob!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on January 28, 2006, 08:41:44 PM
Thank you very much FA but I cannot read.
It is too small.

Many thanks Sarushka.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pers on January 30, 2006, 09:52:29 AM
If one looks at the plan of Alexei's rooms as given by the Forum Admin, one will see the scale at the bottom.  It looks like arshin and sazhen to me since one sazhen = 3 arshin. ;D
BTW, this plan was part of the travelling exhibit that was at Newark NJ, where I saw it about a year ago.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on January 30, 2006, 01:25:02 PM
Quote
BTW, this plan was part of the travelling exhibit that was at Newark NJ, where I saw it about a year ago.

I have the catalog for that exhibit. I will check and see if the plan is any larger in that book. (The one I posted came from Toys of the Tsar's Children.)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pers on January 30, 2006, 02:22:22 PM
The book that I bought at the exhibit does not contain this plan, though it was on exhibition.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on February 03, 2006, 01:03:24 PM
Many Quarenghi`s drafts were published by his son in Italy in 1821. I think it`s possible to find the album: Fabriche e disegni di Giacomo Quarenghi architetto di S. M. l`imperatore di Russia cavaliere di Malta e di s. Walodimiro illustrate del cav. Gulio suo figlio. Milano. Presso Paolo Antonio Tosi MDCCCXXI.

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/italy.JPG)
Poem!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: gleb on February 03, 2006, 03:18:06 PM
if you need a translation, just ask. But nothing particularly interesting is written.

gleb
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on February 17, 2006, 02:21:29 PM
The photograph of the Alexander Palace (was found by Joanna)

(http://www.geocities.com/aa468aa/AP-J.jpe)
http://gorod-pushkin.spb.ru/photo/details.php?image_id=109&sessionid=7e3f9c32fa00dae677341649a225924e
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Ortino on February 17, 2006, 02:40:33 PM
While undoubtedly a beautiful photo, one cannot help but notice the sharp contrast in conditions between the left and right wings of the palace. :'(
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on March 20, 2006, 11:01:40 PM
AP Plan according to the northern orientation

(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7429/1projetmain128072dpi1012jk.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Yoyo on April 15, 2006, 08:41:34 PM
O.k., I know I have come late to this discussion and that I have nothing to contribute to it except a very big BRAVO to Vladimir, Sarushka, BobC and all who contributed to considerably expand my knowledge of life in the palace. I have just discovered it but wow am I happy I did. I have not been this impressed in a long time. I am so impressed, I have been spending my day pondering what I have just read.

Being not particularly knowledgeable of royal life in general, I had no idea of the beehive-like operations going on in the basement of the palace, while NAOTMAA lived their serene, monotonous life upstairs. It's like the operations of a huge, five-star hotel that caters to exclusively seven people. I was anxiously looking forward to Greg King's "Court" to learn about the daily functioning of the palace. But with this discussion a huge gap has been filled.

The floorplans have also been most illuminating. I did not have a clear idea of the size of the palace, even though I have actually been there and have taken the tour on the first floor (in 2004). I guess I am a bit spacially challenged, since the rooms looked smaller than the measurements given on the floorplans.

Anyways, great site, great board, great discussion. Millions of thanks.
Yoyo
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Ortino on April 15, 2006, 09:57:15 PM
now.
Quote
The floorplans have also been most illuminating. I did not have a clear idea of the size of the palace, even though I have actually been there and have taken the tour on the first floor (in 2004). I guess I am a bit spacially challenged, since the rooms looked smaller than the measurements given on the floorplans.

Anyways, great site, great board, great discussion. Millions of thanks.
Yoyo

I'm glad you found this thread so helpful. This is not your fault however. Due to World War II and the occupation of the Russian Navy, the layout of the first floor of the wing was altered, making rooms generally smaller. Many of the walls are not in their original locations, such as the walls of the Maple Room and the Mauve Boudoir. It's not you Yoyo. ;)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: josl1 on April 22, 2006, 05:31:26 PM
I have been impressed to put it mildly by the excellent information in this particular thread. Is there any similar information on the floorplans for the Winter Palace of Catherines time?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Alibubba on April 27, 2006, 07:01:35 PM
Hello!
     This section on the Alexander Palace floor plans is MARVELLOUS!  I am as happy as a clam---here I have answers to a lifetime of questions!  Thank you to all who do this amazing work.  I hope this info stays posted always!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on November 12, 2008, 02:07:22 AM
(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/424/paaldplba0106csfe0.th.jpg) (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paaldplba0106csfe0.jpg)(http://img510.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on November 12, 2008, 07:59:24 AM
Reco -- do those plans show the lower floor of the private wing before N&A remodeled Quarenghi's concert hall?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on November 12, 2008, 07:00:01 PM
Sarushka,

The plan of 1-st floor of a palace from P.Neelova's albums. A photo from A.N.Petrova's book of 1964.

(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/2273/theplanof1stfloorofapalfh5.th.jpg) (http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theplanof1stfloorofapalfh5.jpg)(http://img239.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)(http://)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Olga Maria on March 21, 2009, 12:06:15 AM
Any photos of the slide hall?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on March 21, 2009, 07:49:36 AM
Is this the room you mean?

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Alexander%20Palace/th_gamehill.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Alexander%20Palace/?action=view&current=gamehill.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Alexander%20Palace/th_gamehall.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Alexander%20Palace/?action=view&current=gamehall.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Olga Maria on March 21, 2009, 10:49:36 PM
Yes, Sarah. Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pastpalacelife on April 18, 2009, 02:33:05 PM
Does anyone know the current condition of the Mountain Hall?  I'm guessing the slide is probably long gone.  Has anyone ever been to this room of the palace?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on April 18, 2009, 05:22:56 PM
the Russian Navy had a ping pong table set up in that room in the last photo I saw of that room.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on January 28, 2010, 10:53:46 AM
Here is the most recent photo I've seen of the Mountain Hall. At least I'm fairly certain it is of that room. :)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Restoration/th_mountainhall.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Restoration/?action=view&current=mountainhall.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pastpalacelife on June 20, 2010, 01:03:27 AM
I'm trying to figure out where the slide would have been in the recent picture, can anyone help?  thanks
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on June 21, 2010, 02:50:00 PM
It's hard to say. That thing on the wall that looks like a window frame throws me off because there's not a window there. I'm wondering if, where that frame is, is where the slide used to be, if you can imagine the slide coming out from that wall and towards the camera. I'm mainly going off of the doorways and then the marble (?) lines within the walls. I may be totally wrong.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on June 21, 2010, 07:28:31 PM
It's hard to say. That thing on the wall that looks like a window frame throws me off because there's not a window there. I'm wondering if, where that frame is, is where the slide used to be, if you can imagine the slide coming out from that wall and towards the camera. I'm mainly going off of the doorways and then the marble (?) lines within the walls. I may be totally wrong.

The detail that looks like a window frame is where there was a mirror.  In the plan here you can see the placement of the huge slide...room 9   ...Mountain Hall.  Yes, the slide was where you now see the empty space for the mirror on the wall at the left, in this current color photo.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/mountainhall.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on June 21, 2010, 07:52:21 PM
Thank you Douglas, for actually going and looking at the floor plan.  I'd forgotten that there's a dummy door in the corner right next to the stairs up the slide.

I wonder why they have the window frame thing there?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: booneyrex on July 22, 2010, 12:23:19 PM
Could someone please repost the floorplan of the kitchen.  I was not able to see any of the floorplans Vladimir posted only the ones Reco did.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on July 22, 2010, 03:02:07 PM
Here you go.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Blueprints/th_kitchen2nd.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Blueprints/?action=view&current=kitchen2nd.jpg) (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Blueprints/th_kitchenbuilding1copy.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Blueprints/?action=view&current=kitchenbuilding1copy.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: booneyrex on July 24, 2010, 08:46:32 PM
Thank you Emmylee.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Lindelle on July 24, 2010, 11:48:52 PM
What a fantastic palace!
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on August 20, 2010, 01:45:29 AM
Silvio Dagnini. Tunnel between Alexander Palace and Kitchen Outhouse (cross-section and layout, design). 1897

(http://s58.radikal.ru/i161/1008/9b/3be8968cf763.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)

http://s55.radikal.ru/i149/1008/74/903302c01b87.jpg

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on August 20, 2010, 05:49:19 AM
Very interesting, I wonder how they kept the food hot in the Russian winter ? It is quite a distance from the kitchen, and that tunnel must have been very cold. One can imagine waiters running very fast with trolleys of food, but how did they get it from the basement to the Dinig Room ? If they used a dumbwaiter it must have been the size of a goods lift. I cant see anything on the plans. I cannot imagine them carrying food up a flight of stairs to serve hundreds of people at a dinner.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on August 20, 2010, 08:50:11 PM
The distance from the Kitchen Building to the Palace is 226 feet.  If the porters and footmen had trolleys, I would imagine there would be a ramp instead of stairs, as are shown in this plan from 1897.  I wonder what the current conditions are for the tunnel.

I can't imagine that tourists would want to walk in the tunnel.  The access at the palace terminus would be awkward. 

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/tunneltopalace226final.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on August 22, 2010, 02:01:09 PM
Quote
I can't imagine that tourists would want to walk in the tunnel.

I do not think so. Gatchina tunnel is popular.

http://history-gatchina.ru/parks/park/epark3.htm

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on August 23, 2010, 06:13:55 AM
As far as I can see there are stairs at both ends. Maybe only part of the meal was sent via tunnel, and the rest was prepared in the palace basement somewhere, closer to the dining room.  And no, I think the tourists would be very interested in the tunnel. Most palaces and castles have tunnels. People love them. The Alexander Palace will need to try to make their tunnel a tourist attraction. At the moment they dont have very much else do they ?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on August 23, 2010, 02:04:45 PM
As far as I can see there are stairs at both ends. Maybe only part of the meal was sent via tunnel, and the rest was prepared in the palace basement somewhere, closer to the dining room.  And no, I think the tourists would be very interested in the tunnel. Most palaces and castles have tunnels. People love them. The Alexander Palace will need to try to make their tunnel a tourist attraction. At the moment they dont have very much else do they ?

Ah.. the Tunnel.  Possibly the Tunnel will be the main attraction of a Palace tour.  The tour guides will be rushing through the palace [so boring] and all the time telling the tourists, "Just wait till we get to the Tunnel...it's so exciting.  Most people think it's the highlight of a visit to the Palace.  They love to spend hours down there soaking up all the history."  The gift shop will feature a lot of postcards of the Tunnel.

I would imagine many people will opt to just skip the Palace and descend into the tunnel for the adventure of a lifetime.  Better than Disneyland.

As our dear Pavlov says, "At the moment they don't have very much else, do they?"...referring to the Tunnel.

Hey Pavlov....meet you in the tunnel....;-)))
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Vladimir_V. on August 23, 2010, 03:16:46 PM
Ah.. the Tunnel.  Possibly the Tunnel will be the main attraction of a Palace tour.  The tour guides will be rushing through the palace [so boring] and all the time telling the tourists, "Just wait till we get to the Tunnel...it's so exciting.  

; )))
I saw a child in the Gatchina Palace. Every 10 minutes he asked: Mam! When we go to the tunnel?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: lilianna on August 24, 2010, 01:49:14 AM
Kerensky came to the Emperor through the tunnel. He called this entry "kitchen entrance to the palace."
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Belochka on August 24, 2010, 06:37:49 AM
Kerensky came to the Emperor through the tunnel.

Really? Where did you read this detail?  
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: PAVLOV on August 24, 2010, 09:45:32 AM
Douglas

1) It would appear from your supercilious response to my post that you are a world expert on tourist attractions, and in all things related to what makes museums viable. I bow to your superior knowledge, so please let us have your list of all the tourist attractions the Alexander Palace has to offer "Mr and Mrs Average Tourist" and their 2.5 children. ( As the building now stands in its present condition, with or without the tunnel and the kitchen )

Furthermore you may be aware that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and it would appear you have none.

IF YOU HAVE NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS FORUM THEN OPT OUT, OK ?   

 WE LOOK FORWARD TO  YOUR LIST OF ALEXANDER PALACE ATTRACTIONS. SELL IT TO US AS A "MUST SEE"  RUSSIAN TOURIST DESTINATION.

I AM HOLDING MY BREATH.     
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on August 24, 2010, 03:21:18 PM
Excellent! Thank you, Vladimir for that plan.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on August 24, 2010, 04:46:33 PM
Here is an aerial view of the Alexander Palace and the kitchen building at the right.  The kitchen building entry facade faces directly on and parallel to Dvortsovaya Street .


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/kichenandpalace.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Douglas on August 24, 2010, 05:01:18 PM
Same view of Palace and Kitchen Building.  Red lines show the approximate location of the underground tunnel from the palace to the kitchen building.  The distance is about 226 feet.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/kichenandpalacewithtunnel.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: lilianna on August 24, 2010, 09:17:37 PM
In the article talking about a tunnel between the Palace and the kitchen. On the basement of the palace. On the kitchen for the dogs of the Emperor. The history of the drainage system around the palace. In Russian.

-
  103    06.06.2008
,


.. . , , . , . , , II 1905 . , . . , , , . , , , , , .
?
-, , 2- . II . . , , . - : .
-, 1896 1897 . , . , , , , . II , . .
-, , , . , , . , . , , , . , , .
-, XIX . , . .
- , . ...


Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: lilianna on August 24, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
Belochka , When the royal family was imprisoned in the palace, the revolutionaries have closed all entrances and left only entrance through the tunnel, which recorded all who came. Therefore, the royal family was waiting for the commandant of the palace in a semicircular Hall with the keys to go for a walk. On his visit to the Palace in March 1917 through the tunnel write in his memoirs: Kerensky, Markov 2 nd, cornet Crimean regiment Markov (not to be confused with Markov 2). If you want I can send pages in Russian.
In his memoirs, describes Markov little room Vyrubova, Children's room half on 2 floor in March 1917. In the memoirs of his father Belyaeva even have the menu each day that he ate in the palace, too, in March-April 1917. Very, very interesting. In Russian.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: LondonGirl on August 29, 2011, 01:19:18 PM
Wow - excellent work on these plans!!!!!! The tunnel is fascinating too.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 19, 2011, 07:59:16 PM
The Second Floor:
 
1.   The Passageway
2.   The Buffet
3.   The Aleksandra`s Wardrobe
4.   The hallway with the jut of the elevator (The Glass Roofed Upper Corridor)
5.   The Entry
6.   The Dining Room
7.   The Drawing Room (The Girl`s Reception Room)
8.   The Elder Girl`s Classroom
9.   The Bathroom
10. The Elder Girl`s Bedroom
11. The Junior Girl`s Bedroom
12. The Aleksey`s Playroom
13. The Aleksey`s Bedroom
14. The Derevenko`s Room
15. The Aleksey`s Classroom
16. The Aleksey`s Bathroom
17. The Music Room (the Cinema Room)
18. The Aleksey`s Hallway
18a. The Hallway behind the Cinema Room
19. The Aleksey`s Reception Room
20. The Aleksey`s Buffet
21. The Servants` Bathroom
22. The Gilliard `s Bathroom
23. The Gilliard `s Study
24. The Gilliard `s Bedroom
25. The room of the doctors on duty
26. The Sailor Nagorny`s Room
27. The room of the Gilliard`s servant
28. The Hallway
29. The Chambermaids` Bathroom
30. Chambermaid Elizabeth Ersberg
31. Chambermaid Anna Utkina
32. Major Chambermaid Aleksandra Tegleva  
33. Zanotti`s Chambermaid Elizabeth Eltso (Eltser)
34. Aleksandra`s Lady in Waiting (on Duty)
35. Maid Madeline Zanotti
36. Maid Maria Tutleberg
37. The Junior Girls` Classroom
 
The Part of the Retinue
38. The First Servant`s Room
39. The Second Servant`s Room
40. The Hallway
41. The Drawing Room
42. The Bedroom
43. The Bathroom
44. The Reserved Room (Dressmaker Shneider)
45. The Servant`s Room
46. The Servant`s Room
47. The Buffet
48. The Hallway (The Passage)
48a. The Light Hallway
49. The Study
50. The Boudoir
51. The Bedroom
52. The Corner Drawing Room
53. The Wardrode and the Ironing Room
54. The Reserved Room for the servants of the guests
55. The Reserved Room for the guests
56. The Hallway
57. The Passage
58. The Benkendorf`s Room
59. The Benkendorf`s Bedroom
60. The Benkendorf`s Drawing Room
61. The Buksgevden`s Drawing Room
62. The Buksgevden`s Bedroom
63. The room of the Buksgevden`s servant
64. The Wardrobe
65. The Orbeliani`s Drawing Room
66. The Orbeliani`s Room
67. The Orbeliani`s Room
68. The Obolenskaya`s Room
69. The Obolenskaya`s Bedroom
70. The Obolenskaya`s Drawing Room
71. The Reserved Room for the guests
72. The Buffet
73. The Buffet
74. The Buffet
75. The Buffet
76. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
77. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
78. The Servant`s Room (on duty)
79. The Glass Roofed Corridor
80. The Passage

#38-43 The Catherine Scneider`s apartment
#49-52 The rooms of Alexander III`s children (The rooms of young Nicholas)
#61-70 The rooms of the lady-in-waiting


In Court of the Last Tsar, that Alexei had a dressing room. where?  a bit confused
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on October 20, 2011, 10:10:32 AM
Mandie,
There was an entresol (Mezzanine) Floor and the plan for it lists the room below rooms 27 & 28 as room 8 of the entresol and the translation I have labels it "8. The room for the Aleksey`s things."  As most rooms on the entresol were used for wardrobes (ie The Tsar's Wardrobe, Alexandra's wardrobe, Marie Fyodorovna's wardrobe), it is logical to assume that "Aleksey's things" would refer to his wardrobe as well as other thinngs.
Just an assumption on my part, but maybe someone has a more definitive answer.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 20, 2011, 11:29:10 AM
thank you, now is much clearer to me. :)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pastpalacelife on October 28, 2011, 11:19:05 PM
Do you (anybody) remember the picture that shows the "gate" where Alexandra and Marie talked to the guards, etc.  I don't have that pic.  Anyway, is that a picture looking into the courtyard of  the palace Kitchen?  Or, is the picture just labeled incorrectly. 
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on October 29, 2011, 12:59:50 AM
The only gate I know about near the palace is the front gate heading out onto the street. I don't know if that's the one they went to, but it would make sense to me since it's so near the palace.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 09, 2011, 06:17:46 PM
There was the fence that went from the left wing to right wing that enclosed the courtyard. A gate was next to the steps of the left wing entrance.

Joanna
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on November 19, 2011, 07:06:52 PM
Is this plan of the second floor when the concert hall existed?

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Blueprints/th_Preremodel2ndfloor.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/Places/AP%20Exterior%20and%20Park/Blueprints/?action=view&current=Preremodel2ndfloor.jpg)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on November 19, 2011, 07:54:15 PM
The caption says "alternate plan of the first floor," so maybe it was a variant floorplan that was never used. The large room that occupies most of NII's family wing is labeled as a ballroom.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: BobG on November 20, 2011, 11:20:18 AM
EmmyLee,
I have never seen second floor plans when the concert hall existed, but here is the plan of the first floor:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/AP%20Plans/QuarenghiAsBuiltPlan.jpg)
The Concert Hall is the large double room just before Alexandra's Formal Reception Room and the Small Library.
As I underdstand it the Concert hall was the full height of the first floor and mezzanine, so it would have been the same height as The Maple room and Nichollas' New Study including the balconies.  I do not believe it would have gone into the second floor at all and I imagine the floor plan of the second floor would look fairly similar to the way it looks today. I thinks most of the changes made by N&A were adding internal walls to make the larger rooms into several smaller ones.  The left side of the second floor was probably very similar to the right side as that side wasn't renovated by N&A as far as I know and would be an clues as to what the Children's floor might have originally looked like.
This plan came from the section of the Alexander Palace Time Machine under the AP Palace Tour/Plans, Maps and Churches section where there is a link to Designs for the Alexander Palace by Quarenghi.  Unfortunately, this link seems not to be working.
BobG
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on November 24, 2011, 09:08:34 PM
Thank you, Sarushka and BobG. Yet another reason why I wish I knew Russian.

Perhaps this question should be in a different thread, but do any photos or watercolors exist of the concert hall?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: G.Michael on November 24, 2011, 09:30:34 PM
EmmyLee,

I hope you will find this link interesting and helpful.

http://tsarselo.ru/photos/20/2102

Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on November 25, 2011, 03:42:52 AM
The plan that includes a ballroom was an early plan for the palace that was initially to be built in St. Petersburg and later transfered to Tsarskoe Selo
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on November 25, 2011, 05:51:05 PM
G. Michael, I'd seen the first photo before and not realized that it was the concert hall, so thank you. And thank you, londo954, for your information. Any idea why the palace was NOT built in St. Petersburg?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: pastpalacelife on November 26, 2011, 01:24:42 AM
There was the fence that went from the left wing to right wing that enclosed the courtyard. A gate was next to the steps of the left wing entrance.

Joanna

Thanks Joanna, as usual you know the answers to my questions!  Any chance you have a picture of the gate near the steps of left wing?  Thanks, Tracy
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on November 26, 2011, 05:27:58 PM
From what I understand it was budget and space that was the ultimate deciding factor but I also understand that Catherine by that time in her life largely lived at Tsarskoe Selo and she preferred Alexander to be close. His mother lived at Yelagin in the city. Also the Alexander Palace was meant to be a Summer residence. I think in the city Alexander lived at the Winter Palace or at Kemensotrovsky (traditional home of the heir) but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: londo954 on November 26, 2011, 05:58:28 PM
Somewhere, I believe on this site, there exists a drawing of the facade of the Palace as it was proposed for St. Petersbrug and it would have truly been yet another jewl in Petersburg crown. What I find fascinating is how Quarenghi adopts a slightly different plan for this plan. Russian grand palace architecture seems to follow the same general pattern with a garden facade and main facade that would act as a principal entrance which the Alexander Palace has. There would be a center block and from that extend wings on either side. One need only look at the plans for the Catherine Palace, Peterhof and even Pavolovsk although its wings cirve around a center court. From one of the facades one would enter the main entrance hall which always had some form of a grand staircase. The Alexander Palace lacks this feature. They almost always incorporated a ballroom for entertaining and for court functions as well as Parade rooms. The Alexander Palace lacking the former and having a scaled down version of the later. I would say it is save to say that the Palace design, location and purpose was altered as a cost cutting measure. From my research I firmly believed when the Palace was never intended for functions of state but rather for the functions of family it was first and foremost a summer home.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on November 28, 2011, 07:49:13 PM
You're right about the proposed facade plan for the palace had it been built in St. Petersburg. I just found it.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: G.Michael on November 30, 2011, 07:59:47 AM
From what I understand it was budget and space that was the ultimate deciding factor but I also understand that Catherine by that time in her life largely lived at Tsarskoe Selo and she preferred Alexander to be close. His mother lived at Yelagin in the city. Also the Alexander Palace was meant to be a Summer residence. I think in the city Alexander lived at the Winter Palace or at Kemensotrovsky (traditional home of the heir) but I could be wrong.

Also, from what I understand, the design was watered down to avoid overshadowing the heir's relatively modest palace at Pavlovsk. Some members of the court didn't think it was appropriate for Alexander's palace to outshine his father's.

Am I right to assume that the original site in St. Petersburg would've been the location of the old Summer Palace, where Paul eventually built the Mikhailovsky Castle?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on February 27, 2012, 09:39:12 PM
Wow!  I just spent the entire afternoon re-reading this entire thread from when I first joined this forum in 2009.   Since that time, after learning so much more about AP and it's story, these plans and legends mean so much more to me.   You folks are truly incredible!  I can't wait to print out all these plans tomorrow.

I have a question - hope this is the correct thread to post this.   What is the story of Alexandra's balcony.   At what point did it cease to exist?   Was it also one of the "victims" of the Nazi occupation?  I know it wasn't original to the palace, but since it was so much a part of the IF's daily lives, are there plans to restore it?    I apologize if this was answered somewhere else on the forum.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on February 27, 2012, 09:45:37 PM
I have found reference to my question of the balcony.   Please disregard my last post.   :-[
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Brassov on February 24, 2013, 06:04:51 AM
I'm not sure where to ask this question, so I am putting it here.
How many doorways were, or are, there in the Palace ? I can only find 5, excluding balcony doors in both wings, which are of course now gone. Entrances to the right and left wings, the collonade entrances, and the Circular Hall. Surprisingly few.
I am assuming that the " back" door to the family wing was the one most often used, and used by the family only ?
I am not sure who used the collonade entrances. Possibly as entry and exit for dinners and receptions. I cant imagine guests using the family entrance.
The door onto the steps of the circular hall must have been used as a means of getting to that part of the garden. Of course this was the door through which the family left for the last time, as opposed to their usual exit out the back. Possibly because it was the only room big enough to contain all the luggage they took with them to Tobolsk. Also I wonder which door was used by Nicholas as exit and entry when he went on his daily walks. Must have been the family entrance perhaps.   
Just an interesting thought.   
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Sarushka on February 24, 2013, 08:19:09 AM
I have the impression there was also a doorway out the back of the semi-circular hall, although it's not marked as such on the AP plans I have. I believe it was this entrance that was unlocked for the family's daily walks while under house arrest in 1917. Is this the one you're referring to as the family entrance?
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Brassov on February 26, 2013, 05:41:04 AM
No I'm referring to the door which exits the family quarters at the back end of the left wing. The middle door of the semi circular hall was the one used for their departure to Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Kiwi on February 28, 2013, 03:15:15 PM
Can we go back to the "ice machine" question for a moment. 

I was told by my mother, that my grandfather was sent by his father, representing a Chicago/Northern Illinois firm, as a lead machinist to install refrigeration equipment at the summer palace in St. Petersburg.  The installation (supposedly) began in late summer 1916, but was interrupted in 1917 ...

The family was originally Danish, but were apparently polyglots (including Russian).   The refrigeration equipment company was represented in Russia by Y. Sommersalo & Co. (Helsinki), and W. O. Lucas Co. of Chicago, Riga, Berlin, Helsinki, Oslo and St. Petersburg.  I wish I had more details, and a complete paper trail.  I only have applications to the U.S. State Department, asking for a specific visa to travel to Russia (as was needed by all travelers during WWI),. 
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on September 07, 2015, 04:16:50 PM
Futures floorplans of Alexander Palace for 2018 after the restoration : (for high resolution click on once , and once again)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/09/07//1509071058135012513564199.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1509071058135012513564199.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/09/07//1509071058075012513564198.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1509071058075012513564198.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/09/07//1509071058215012513564201.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1509071058215012513564201.jpg)

2 sectional drawings :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/09/07//1509071058015012513564197.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1509071058015012513564197.jpg)

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/09/07//1509071058305012513564204.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1509071058305012513564204.jpg)

Marble paving plan of the courtyard behind the columns :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/09/07//1509071058355012513564210.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1509071058355012513564210.jpg)




Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Reco on April 18, 2016, 10:18:12 PM
(http://nsa37.casimages.com/img/2016/04/19/mini_160419053903130539.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/i/160419053903130539.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Floorplans of the Alexander Palace
Post by: Joanna on June 24, 2016, 09:41:10 AM
Documents from the beginning referred to the Alexander Palace as the New Palace. It was only in August 1856 that Alexander II ordered that the palace be officially called Alexander.

Y.V. Zakharzhevsky told officials that when the Emperor when in Tsarksoe Selo on August 7th, His Majesty has deigned to command that the New Palace of Tsarskoe Selo to be called Alexander Palace. [RSHA F. 487]

At that time it was decided to name the wings left facing private garden, right facing road. (English readers are familiar with the opposite descriptions a bit confusing when reading Russian)

Joanna