Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Wittlesbachs => Topic started by: anabel on December 17, 2005, 02:25:35 PM

Title: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: anabel on December 17, 2005, 02:25:35 PM
Hi!
I found out that this famous family hasn´t an own topic, so I thought I should start one! :)
The genealogy of the family (male line):
1. Duke Wilhelm in Bavaria (1752-1837)
   oo Pfalzgräfin Maria Anna von Zweibrücken-Birkenfeld
1.1. Duchess Maria Elisabeth in Bavaria (1784-1849)
      Louis Prince de Neufchatel
1.2. Duke Pius in Bavaria (1786-1837)
      oo Princess Amalie d´Arenberg
1.2.1. Duke Maximilian in Bavaria (1808-1888)
         oo Princess Ludovika of Bavaria (1808-1892)
1.2.1.1. Duke Ludwig in Bavaria (1831-1920)
            1oo Henriette Mendel (1833-1891),
            2oo Antonie Barth (1871-1956)
1.2.1.2. Duke Wilhelm in Bavaria (1832-1833)
1.2.1.3. Duchess Helene in Bavaria (1834-1890)
            oo Herediatary Prince Max v. Thurn u.´Taxis
1.2.1.4. Duchess Elisabeth in Bavaria (1837-1898)
            oo Franz Joseph I. Emperor of Austria
1.2.1.5. Duke Carl Theodor in Bavaria (1839-1909)
            1oo Princess Sophie of Saxony (1845-1867)
            2oo Infanta Marie José of Portugal (1857-1943)
1.2.1.6. Duchess Marie Sophie in Bavaria (1841-1925)
            oo Francesco King of Bourbon-Sicily (1836-1894)
1.2.1.7. Duchess Mathilde in Bavaria (1843-1925)
            oo Ludovico Count Trani (1838-1886)
1.2.1.8. Duke Maximilian in Bavaria (1845-1845)
1.2.1.9. Duchess Sophie Charlotte in Bavaria(1847-1897)
            oo Ferdinand Duke d´Alencon (1844-1910)
1.2.1.10.Duke Maximilian Emanuel in Bavaria(1849-1890)
              oo Princess Amalie of Saxe-Coburg(1848-1894)
1.2.1.5.1. Duchess Amalie in Bavaria (1865-1912)
               oo Wilhelm Duke of Urach (1864-1928)
1.2.1.5.2. Duchess Sophie in Bavaria (1875-1957)
               oo Hans Veit Count of Toerring-Jettenbach
1.2.1.5.3. Duchess Elisabeth in Bavaria (1876-1965)
               oo Albert I. King of the Belgians (1875-1934)
1.2.1.5.4. Duchess Marie Gabrielle in Bavaria(1878-1912)
               oo Rupprecht Crown Prince of Bavaria
1.2.1.5.5. Duke Ludwig Wilhelm in Bavaria (1884-1968)
               oo Princess Eleonore zu Sayn (1880-1965)
1.2.1.5.6. Duke Franz Joseph in Bavaria (1888-1912)
1.2.1.10.1. Duke Siegfried in Bavaria (1876-1952)
1.2.1.10.2. Duke Christoph in Bavaria (1879-1963)
                 oo Anna Siebig (1874-1957)
1.2.1.10.3. Duke Luitpold in Bavaria (1890-1973)

Here ends the male line of the family as none of the male members of the family had descendants. The current head of the family is the grandson of Duchess M. Gabrielle, Princess of Bavaria, Max Emanuel, who has "only" female descendants himself...
I know there is a photo topic on Empress Sisi´s sibblings somewhere, but I would love to discuss the members of the family as they are all very interesting!
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Emilia on December 17, 2005, 02:46:56 PM
Finally a topic on my favorite German family! My personal favorite is Carl Theodor because medical efforts and his nice personality, his lovely family etc.. I have more ambivalent feelings towards his sisters, esp. Elisabeth and Maria, who were all thrilling beautiful, but (very) difficult. :-/
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: grandduchessella on December 17, 2005, 08:58:51 PM
Here are some threads to check out for some info and photos:

Queen Elizabeth of Belgium
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=benelux;action=display;num=1124132508

Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=wilhelm;action=display;num=1117582755
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 18, 2005, 11:04:09 AM
Yes...I am thinking of combing the research I have done on the sister to do a book. Haven't decide a seperate one on the Duchesses in Bavaria or a more broad concept with other stories of royal princesses... ???
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Emilia on December 25, 2005, 09:57:08 AM
I would love to hear more about Carl Theodor and his family. He seemed to have been much loved by everybody. Cóuld anybody please tell more about him? It would also be nice to learn more about his several daghters, especially Sophie, Countess Torring-Jettenbach! :)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 25, 2005, 08:54:59 PM
A good looking scientific and romantic prince that can keep confidences...no wonder he was a favourite in the family. (talking about Duke Carl Theodor of course).
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 26, 2005, 03:31:48 AM
What about collecting some pics of the lesser known family members, for example Carl Theodor's children Amélie Urach, Sophie zu Toerring-Jettenbach and Duke Franz Joseph?
Unfortunately, there aren't much pics known of Max Emanuel's sons.
And what about Amalie von Coburg, Mapperl's wife, and Sophie von Sachsen, Carl Theodor's first wife?

Although I've been collecting these pics for years, I'd love to see some more, maybe unknown pics.

Marc, do you have any portraits of some family members?  ;)

Thanks

Marie

Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 26, 2005, 05:04:38 AM
Love to see your collection... ;D
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on December 26, 2005, 06:03:46 AM
Quote
What about collecting some pics of the lesser known family members, for example Carl Theodor's children Amélie Urach, Sophie zu Toerring-Jettenbach and Duke Franz Joseph?


Wonderful idea, Marie! Though I am sure your collection is unbeatable, I´ll start to post some pics:

Franz Joseph in Bavaria (1888-1912)
(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/gifs/franzbavaria1888.jpg)

Ludwig Wilhelm and Franz Joseph in Bavaria
(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/gifs/franzbavaria1888-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on December 26, 2005, 06:18:46 AM
Duchess Amelie Urach with husband and children:
(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/wuertthouse/wilhelmwuertt1864-3.jpg)

Countess Sophie Törring-Jettenbach
(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs12/hanstoerring1862-5.jpg)
I would also like to learn more about Sophie as there is a lot known about her younger sisters Elisabeth and Marie Gabrielle, but not about her. Does anyone know more about her?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 26, 2005, 07:21:49 AM
Linnea, I wrote a short biography about Sophie zu Toerring-Jettenbach some months ago for a woman in Oberalting near Seefeld, where Sophie once lived. I am going to send you the text, okay?  ;)

By the way, Eric ... Why don't you show us some pics of your collection? I can't remember that you have ever showed us one single pic.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 26, 2005, 08:01:33 AM
I would love to, just that I am low tech and do not know how to use a scanner...I think someone post photos from my first book "Royalty In Photographs"... :-[
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 26, 2005, 09:26:40 AM
Eric,

that's really a pity, because I think you have indeed a lot of rare and nice pictures in your collection.

I did a little research on your book. As far as I found out, there are pics of Queen Victoria and her family in your book, right? And it was published in Hong Kong - do you live there? Very exciting. Could you tell us more about it, please?

And have you already begun to write on your new book about the Duchesses in Bavaria? Are you going to write about Carl Theodor's daughters, too?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 26, 2005, 09:02:54 PM
Hi,

No I don't have a lot, but quite a few nice gems that I picked up there and then. The response on my pictures in the book was so positive that I decided to publish a second one called "Royal Images" and share more with those who like these things.

Yes I do live in Hong Kong/San Fransisco. Both are nice cities. I do get to see my friend Arturo Beeche, whose bookstore is also located in the Bay Area, and is now carrying the book.

Yes I would like to discuss some more about my studies on the Duchesses in Bavaria. Do sent me a private message and we can talk. I felt it is not right to take up too much space here to talk about myself.

Thanks for your interest  ;)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on December 27, 2005, 04:34:22 AM
Oh, I would love to talk about the duchesses in Bavaria, too, so please don´t ostracise me... ;)
Which one of the duchesses are you most interessted in, if I may ask?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 27, 2005, 11:31:02 AM
Wow ! That is tough...I like all of them, each is interesting in their own way. Nene was intelligent, but quite grand and strict. Sisi was beautiful as a dream, Maria Sofia was brave and mysterious, Mathilde, fashionable but placid and Sophie Charlotte, a child of passion.  :)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 27, 2005, 01:17:10 PM
It seems that you are mostly interested in the daughters of Duke Max ...  ;)

Linnea and I are "big fans" of Marie Gabrielle, Princess of Bavaria. Have you also done any research on her?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on December 27, 2005, 02:05:54 PM
Oh, it would be so lovely, if you could tell us more about Marie Gabrielle, Eric! I am sure you could tell us unknown things about her because of your researches. :)
BTW Marie, your new "icon" is lovely! Mr. Huber is brilliant, isn´t he?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 27, 2005, 05:26:24 PM
It's indeed a very charming pic of Sophie, Elisabeth and Marie Gabrielle.  ;D
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 27, 2005, 08:50:47 PM
Yes...I haven't seen that one before.

Yes..I did do some research on Marie Gabrielle (easy since she married back into the main line), and it was a hearbroken story....all the kids who died.  :'(

I think it would be more difficult to do reasech on the others like Amalie Urach or Sophie Torring (I had a hard time getting anything about her daughter-in-law Wooly) :(
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on December 28, 2005, 02:53:43 AM
Marie Gabrielle´s story is indeed touching, but maybe you could tell us some new details about her? That would be fantastic! :)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2005, 07:28:38 AM
Well for starters, she was the ackowledged beauty in the family.  ;)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Bernardino on December 28, 2005, 04:57:24 PM
She looked very much like her mother...once Maria José was called 'die schönste frau in Bayern'...Her father (king Miguel) was in his youth a very charming young boy...though much led by his hormones I believe  ;D...In my opinion Maria José looked much closer to her father in looks than to her mother (her sister Maria Thereza and Aldegundes and her brother Dom Miguel, had on the other hand more 'Löwenstein looks')...
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2005, 08:05:20 PM
Yes...I think Sophie looked more like her father's side. One must remember Carl Theodor's beauty gene pool too as his sisters were almost all celebrated beauties (with the possible exception of Nene & Spatz). Elisabeth (the future Queen of Belgium) looked the ugly duckling of the bunch. However she did look a bit like her Aunt Mathilde (Countess Trani).
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: regensburg on January 07, 2006, 04:05:18 AM
Does anybody have any pictures of the earlier Dukes ???. I can find no pictures of Max's parents Pius and Amelie of Arenberg but I've found a picture of his grandfather Wilhelm (1752-1837) posted below

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/regensburg/wittwilhelmzubay1752.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marc on January 07, 2006, 06:53:15 AM
I would like to see so much portraits of Max's parents,so if anyone finds anything please post...
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: dboro on January 07, 2006, 08:21:35 AM
I know that this is not a portrait, but it's all I stoll managed to find. A print from 1786: Baptism of Duke Pius in Landshut & Ludwig in Strassburg:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/dboro/piusludwig.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2006, 08:52:38 AM
I found a portrait of Pius (father of Duke Max) but not his wife, Princess Arenberg.  ::)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marc on January 07, 2006, 04:23:57 PM
Great Eric,could you post it?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2006, 09:34:08 PM
Would love to...scanner problems. Also it was from the Wittelsbach Family Archievs in Munich, maybe some some copyright problems. Don't worry it will be in the next book I publish.  ;)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2006, 09:36:09 PM
A hint though...Duke Pius was no looker, I think Max's good looks came from his Arenberg mother, of whom there is no published portrait (none that I know of that is).  ???
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 10, 2006, 03:47:51 AM
I have a pic of Pius, which was shown in the Castle of Unterwittelsbach some time ago. Although I don't like him at all, he looked quite handsome on it.

I'll post it as soon as my computer works again.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 10, 2006, 04:47:23 AM
Thanks Dear !  ;D
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 12, 2006, 07:41:56 AM
Pius August, Duke in Bavaria (1786-1837)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/pius01.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marc on January 12, 2006, 07:54:10 AM
Thank you so much,I have never seen his portrait!If you find more,please post it!
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 12, 2006, 08:19:38 AM
I would love to see more portaits of Pius myself, but they are so hard to find.

The pic I have posted is an enlarged part of a photograph which was taken in Unterwittelsbach. So its quality isn't the best - I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 12, 2006, 10:00:52 AM
I think my portrait was done much later in his 40's at least. Ithink that of his wife was the most hard to get...
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marc on January 12, 2006, 04:28:34 PM
I would also like to see this Arenberg Princess witch caused much trouble during considering in Bayern princesses as future Empresses since she was from a non-souvereign family(witch meant mediatized)!
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 12, 2006, 07:54:56 PM
I will personally salute anyone who can locate an image of this mysterious Arenberg princess... ???
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Emilia on April 02, 2006, 08:16:35 AM
Does anybody know more about Duke Franz Joseph (1888-1912), the youngest son of Carl Theodor and his second wife Marie José? What was his character like? Are there more photos around than those posted already? Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Paola on April 03, 2006, 07:09:19 AM
I once read in a genealogy website that Duke Franz Joseph in Bavaria had a natural son. Is it really true?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 03, 2006, 01:01:57 PM
That's true. Franz Joseph had a relationship to Caroline "Lili" Stockhammer (1891-1972). They had a son called Ottomar Gustav Stockhammer (1909-1959) who married Kitty Freiin von Taube (born 1911). Ottomar was adopted by Joachim of Prussia.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 10, 2006, 05:19:40 AM
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/familie02.jpg)

(left to right) Luitpold (youngest son of Max Emanuel), Franz Joseph and Ludwig Wilhelm (sons of Carl Theodor), Marie Gabrielle and Elisabeth (daughters of Carl Theodor), Christoph (son of Max Emanuel), Sophie (daughter of Carl Theodor) and Siegfried (son of Max Emanuel).
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 17, 2006, 11:55:22 AM
It is a pity that both Max Emmanuel and Karl Theodor's male line had to die out, considering they do had quite a few sons in the family.  :(
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Paola on April 18, 2006, 04:12:46 AM
About Max Emmanuel's sons...Siegfried was engaged to Archduchess Annunziata but she broke off the engagement, Christoph married but had no children..what about the youngest son Luitpold?Why he never married?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 18, 2006, 06:43:55 AM
Luitpold was married to his Schloss Ringberg near Rottach-Egern ... But I think he was close to a woman called Sophie von Feilitzsch who lived in Bamberg and Munich.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on April 18, 2006, 08:25:24 AM
He was married to his castle? :-?
Imagine this pair coming to a dinner party... ;)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 18, 2006, 11:41:49 AM
I think he meant enclosed in his own castle and don't come out... :(
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Agneschen on May 16, 2006, 10:10:41 AM
Duke Carl Theodor and family :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Gackelfamily.jpg)
from left to right : Marie Gabrielle, Franz Josef, Marie José, Sophie, Carl Theodor, Elisabeth, Ludwig Wilhelm.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 16, 2006, 10:28:31 AM
Nice postcard !  :)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marie Valerie on May 18, 2006, 11:07:34 AM
Is there any information how many illegitimately children the duke Max in Bavaria, Sisi's father, has had?

 :-?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 18, 2006, 12:04:23 PM
They were never really identified...I guess it needs research into... :-?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marie Valerie on May 18, 2006, 12:25:22 PM
I've heard about 20 or more???

It seems the old Max had only one hobby....


 ;) ;) ;) :D ;D :o :-?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 18, 2006, 04:33:50 PM
Richard Sexau, author of one of my favourite books "Fürst und Arzt - Dr. med. Carl Theodor, Herzog in Bayern", talked to some members of Maximilian's family while doing research for his book.
On 27./28. July 1938 Sexau had an interview with Albert I. of Thurn und Taxis, Maximilian's grandson. He told Sexau about two illegitimate daughters who had lunch with their father every day from 11.30 - 13.30. In contrast to Maximilian's children by Ludovica, these two daughters were allowed to visit their father whenever they wanted to. Albert said that one of Maximilian's illegitimate daughters became a nun, but he didn't have any information about the other girl he once met in Munich.

According to Marie Redwitz, Maximilian's children by Ludovica had contact to their half-sisters, because it was Marie of Naples who allowed them to see Max after his death.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 18, 2006, 06:56:48 PM
Interesting however there is still no bio nor photos of the illegitmate family. Quite unlike the Spanish Royal family where illegitmate family members wrote bios of their lives, and the King of Spain acknowledged them as part of the extended family.  :P
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Paola on May 19, 2006, 07:05:00 AM
And what was Ludovica's reaction to her husband's ilegitimate children? I think in later years Empress Elisabeth was more close to her mother than to her father. I read she didn't attend his father's funeral.

Paola
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 19, 2006, 10:46:46 AM
I think Ludovika took it all in stride. Sisi became closer to her Mutti since she knew what she had to go through as a married woman.  :-?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Agneschen on May 24, 2006, 09:54:09 AM
Gackel & Marie José with daughter Elisabeth :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Gacklwifedaughter.jpg)

Marie José with 4 of her Belgian great grandchildren :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/MJoseoffspring.jpg)
(from left to right : Baudoin, Joséphine Charlotte, Marie José holding baby Alexandre, Albert).
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 24, 2006, 10:30:12 AM
Nice photos... ;)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 26, 2006, 01:42:22 PM
Quote
Gackel & Marie José with daughter Elisabeth :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Gacklwifedaughter.jpg)

Marie José with 4 of her Belgian great grandchildren :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/MJoseoffspring.jpg)
(from left to right : Baudoin, Joséphine Charlotte, Marie José holding baby Alexandre, Albert).

Wow, Agneschen, were did you find these absolutely wonderful photographs?  :)

The first pic was taken in Possenhofen in about 1900 - I know the stairs and the balcony in the background.

The second one must have been taken in 1842/43. Marie José was about 85 years old, but she looked great.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 27, 2006, 05:19:07 AM
Indeed ! She had aged gracefully unlike her once beautiful sisters-in-laws... :(
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Agneschen on May 27, 2006, 08:18:46 AM
Quote
They come from a newly-published bio of Queen Elisabeth of Belgium (in French, by a Belgian writer I believe). It also contains some very lovely pics of Elisabeth herself - a couple of which I have posted in the thread that is dedicated to her in the Benelux section.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 27, 2006, 08:32:14 AM
Interesting !  :o Thanks !
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 30, 2006, 09:48:18 AM
Sophie in Bavaria, eldest daughter of Carl Theodor and Marie José, and her husband Hans Veit zu Toerring-Jettenbach

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/sophie1875_hans03.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 30, 2006, 09:49:24 AM
Marie José (1857-1943) and Carl Theodor (1839-1909)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/carltheodor_mariejose05.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on May 30, 2006, 09:58:51 AM
Oh, MarieCharlotte, how very charming pictures!
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: grandduchessella on May 30, 2006, 11:21:13 AM
Inded they are! I'm new to the Bavarian royal family (except for Elisabeth, Marie Gabrielle & Antonia) so I'm enjoying the photos and information very much.  :) It's great when you find a new area to study.

It was Sophie's son who married Princess Elisabeth of Greece (dau of Helen & Nicholas) correct?

Quote
About Max Emmanuel's sons...Siegfried was engaged to Archduchess Annunziata but she broke off the engagement,

Siegfried apparently inherited some of the mental problems common in his family which was the reason the engagement was called off. Neither one of them ever married--I wonder if Annunziata never got over him? Both lived for about another half century.  :(
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 30, 2006, 01:18:11 PM
Quote
Inded they are! I'm new to the Bavarian royal family (except for Elisabeth, Marie Gabrielle & Antonia) so I'm enjoying the photos and information very much.  :) It's great when you find a new area to study.

It was Sophie's son who married Princess Elisabeth of Greece (dau of Helen & Nicholas) correct?


Yes, their eldest son Carl Theodor "Toto" (1900-1967) was married to Elisabeth Princess of Greece. (1904-1955).  :)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 30, 2006, 01:42:14 PM
Quote
Oh, MarieCharlotte, how very charming pictures!

Thank you so much, my dear.  :-*
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 31, 2006, 03:15:25 AM
I wonder if Sophie and Wolley got along. Looking at the wedding photos of Toto and Wooley, Sophie was unsmiling and looking almost angry...??? :-?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Bernardino on June 02, 2006, 02:04:42 PM
Hello  :)

Does anyone have a picture of Duke Ludwig Wilhelm in his adult age?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 02, 2006, 02:21:56 PM
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Hello  :)

Does anyone have a picture of Duke Ludwig Wilhelm in his adult age?

Of course.  ;)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/ludwigwilhelm06.jpg)

Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 02, 2006, 02:34:59 PM
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Siegfried apparently inherited some of the mental problems common in his family which was the reason the engagement was called off. Neither one of them ever married--I wonder if Annunziata never got over him? Both lived for about another half century.  :(

I don't think that Siegfried had inherited his mental problems, although they were quite common in his family. Just think of the strange behaviour of his grand-grand-father Pius.

In fact, Siegfried loved to take part in horse races. In June 1899 he fell off his horse and was hurt badly. Since this accident, his behaviour has changed. In 1902 Maria Annunziata decided to call off her engagement to Siegfried.
I think Annunziata ("Miana") had a happy life as an unmarried woman. In 1906, her half-brother Otto died and that's why her sister-in-law Maria Josepha - now a widow - wasn't allowed to take the place of the first woman of the Imperial Family anymore. This position passed on to Annunziata.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 03, 2006, 12:17:05 AM
Interesting information !  :o
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Linnea on June 03, 2006, 10:01:00 AM
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Interesting information !  :o

Indeed very interesting - our dear MarieCharlotte is the one and only expert on Bavarian and Austrian Royals! :)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Bernardino on June 03, 2006, 10:08:18 AM
Thank for the picture of Ludwig Wilhelm  :)

A pitty his marriage remained childless...I would expect his wife couldn't get pregnant, because her 1st marriage to Fürst Otto von Schönburg also remained childless, though the marriage lasted for some years before he died...

By the way, what was the religion of Duchess Eleonore?

The Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg are Protestant, but I think her mother was a Catholic...

Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 03, 2006, 10:34:48 AM
Yes she is indeed an expert !  :) But I am sure there are quite a lot of people out there that knows as much. I think I can list three... ;)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on March 12, 2009, 03:27:56 PM
Duke Max

(http://i44.tinypic.com/n71qn7.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marc on March 12, 2009, 10:44:33 PM
Really nice portrait...is there any in color?
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 14, 2009, 03:02:03 PM
Max was a handsome and talented man...Can't find a photo of his mother though...
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Paola on March 16, 2009, 01:47:24 AM
And also eccentric, a characteristic  he passed to some of his daughters.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on March 16, 2009, 09:21:54 AM
Really nice portrait...is there any in color?

I just have this in black/white.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 16, 2009, 10:40:18 AM
Well...He did and especially Sisi, Nene and Sophie. Mathilde and Marie were more driven by circumstances.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Marc on March 16, 2009, 09:24:50 PM
Really nice portrait...is there any in color?

I just have this in black/white.




Thank you Rani anyway,you always bring something interesting ;)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2009, 02:06:11 PM
It is ad that the male line of the dukes in Bavaria died out.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Paola on March 18, 2009, 07:28:18 AM
Yes,  pity some male members of this family remained single or their marriage were childless.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 18, 2009, 03:14:04 PM
Yes, especially the all children of Max Emmanuel remained single. The whole branch died out.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 19, 2009, 11:21:59 AM
Yes, especially the all children of Max Emmanuel remained single. The whole branch died out.

Max Emanuel's second son Christoph was married to Miss Anna Theresia Sibig, but their marriage remained childless.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 21, 2009, 08:32:37 PM
Yes. His brothers did not even marry.
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on April 04, 2009, 06:48:07 PM
http://cgi.ebay.ch/1841-Walzer-von-Herzog-Max-Vater-von-Sisi-Stifter-EA_W0QQitemZ270362327468QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiquarische_B%C3%BCcher?hash=item270362327468&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1317|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318


A composition of Duke Max in a Vienna magazine
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 07, 2009, 03:47:38 PM
Very interesting. He did look like a dandy !
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on March 26, 2011, 02:11:28 PM
Princess Eleonore, later Duchess in Bavaria

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/tar961-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Herzöge in Bayern- Dukes in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on March 26, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/annoshow-2-1.jpg)

Eleonore with husband Count Otto of Schönburg

(Sport und Salon)