Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: José on January 16, 2006, 04:52:33 PM

Title: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: José on January 16, 2006, 04:52:33 PM

On this site I found that Pr. Louis of Orléans, Duke of Nemours was twice married and fathered a daughter Claes from this 2nd marriage.
I never heard he got married again after the death of Victoria of Saxe Coburg.
Would it be just an affair that he had and the site calls it a marriage ?
Does anyone know anything about this daughter, what happened to her, did she got married, have children , etc ?
http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=pt;i=143286
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Prince_Lieven on January 16, 2006, 05:07:40 PM
Hi YaBB_Jose.  :)

I've taken a look round and no other site displays a second marriage and child. I think you're probably right and it was in fact an affair.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Agneschen on January 16, 2006, 06:15:40 PM
I have never heard of a second marriage either though I have read a lot about King Louis-Philippe and his family. Nemours had several affairs before his marriage to Viktoria of Saxe Coburg (maybe also after ?) and may have fathered a child with some of his mistresses.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 24, 2006, 05:51:10 AM
Could you tell me more about Victoria, Duchesse de Nemours?

Somebody posted some facts about Victoria - I guess something that Queen Victoria wrote about her. But I can't find it anymore.

Is there something else known about her short life?

Thanks, Marie
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Paola on March 31, 2006, 06:02:02 AM
Iam searching information about Princess Blanche d' Orleans (1857-1932).  She was the daughter of Louis, Duke of Nemours and his wife Victoria of Saxe Coburg. I know her mother died two weeks after her birth. Her aunt, Princess Clementine in her letters to Queen Victoria mention Blanche  very poor health and difficult character. Blanche died unmarried.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Mlle_Gabrielle on March 31, 2006, 09:38:27 AM
Dear Paola,

in this site you will find one pic of Blanche:

http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/bourbon/bborleans2/1857%20Blanche.jpg
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Paola on September 22, 2006, 05:17:23 AM
Hello,

Iam searching for information and pictures of Victoria, Duchess of Nemours (1822-1857). I know she died only some days after the birth of her daughter Blanche. What was the cause of her death?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 22, 2006, 06:20:19 AM
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/vanozzacatanei/VictoriaDuchessofNemours.jpg)

Viktorie Auguste Antoinette von Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha, later Victoire duchesse de Nemours!

Victoria was born in Vienna, 14 february 1822. She was daughter of prince Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha by his wife, the catholic hungarian noblewoman Maria Antonia Gabriela von Kohàry of Csabrag. On 17 april 1840, in Saint Cloud, Victoria married Louis d´Orleans, duke of Nemours.



Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on September 22, 2006, 09:53:17 AM
Dear Paola,

here is a link to an English website where you can see a monument of Victoire which used to stand over her grave in Weybridge Chapel. Agneschen told me that it is now in a museum. So it's definitely not her tomb.

http://www.artandarchitecture.org.uk/search/results.html?ixsid=iNxPU1tJXE8&qs=nemours (http://www.artandarchitecture.org.uk/search/results.html?ixsid=iNxPU1tJXE8&qs=nemours)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on September 22, 2006, 11:31:25 AM
Queen Victoria and Victoire were very close with QV referring to her as 'that Angel' and her 'much-beloved Vecto'. QV had been delighted by her marriage and shattered by her sudden death. She wrote they had been 'just like sisters'. This is a famous portrait of Queen Victoria and her cousin Victoire painted by Winterhalter. It was painted for QV as a birthdya present to Prince Albert in 1852--Victoire also being his cousin.



Here's a slightly larger image of the effigy

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/walker/collections/research/uncatalogued/chapu.asp
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on September 22, 2006, 11:46:27 AM
Victoire's children:

1) Louis Philippe Marie Ferdinand Gaston, Comte d'Eu (1842-1922); m.Rio de Janeiro 15 Oct 1864 Isabel, Princess Imperial of Brazil (1846-1921); had issue

2) Ferdinand Philippe Marie, Duc d'Alençon (1844-1910); m.1868 Sophie Dss in Bavaria (1847-1897); Sophie was the sister of Empress Elisabeth of Austria. They had the following 2 children:

Louise (1869-1952); m.1891 Alfons of Bavaria
Philippe Emmanuel , Duc de Vendôme (1872-1931); m.1896 Henriette of Belgium (dau. of King Leopold II of Belgium, another Coburg relation)

3) Marguerite Adélaide Marie (1846-1896); m.1872 Pr Wladislaw Czartoryski

4) Blanche Marie Amélie Caroline Louise Victoire (1857-1932)

Victoire died when her youngest daughter was a few weeks old. She died at Claremont House in England.


Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Eurohistory on October 21, 2006, 08:18:09 PM
Victoire's many descendants include the Fürst von Thurn und Taxis, the King of Bulgaria, Archduke Joseph of Austria, Duke Friedrich of Württemberg, The Duke di Puglie, The Duke of Noto, the Prince Imperial of Brazil and many more.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 24, 2006, 03:31:33 AM

Victoire died when her youngest daughter was a few weeks old. She died at Claremont House in England.


The cause of her death was an emboly.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Daniela on December 15, 2006, 01:03:12 AM
Is it possible that on the picture of the wedding of Louis & Victoire Nemours, is there also Victoire's mother?

Daniela
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Eurohistory on January 22, 2007, 09:33:48 AM
Inside Issue LIV (December 2006) of The European Royal History Journal there is a lovely photo of Victorie Nemours with her sons Eu and Alençon from around the time of her death.  It is an incredibly rare early photograph of her.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 22, 2007, 10:24:45 AM
I just received Mon Album de Famille by Prince Michael of Greece and the Comte de Paris (finally!) and it has a picture of Victoire in her coffin. It's a very distressing photo as her mouth is open as if she had suffered some during her death.  :(
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 22, 2007, 03:15:45 PM
I just received Mon Album de Famille by Prince Michael of Greece and the Comte de Paris (finally!) and it has a picture of Victoire in her coffin. It's a very distressing photo as her mouth is open as if she had suffered some during her death.  :(

I've seen this picture, too - and I wish I hadn't seen it ...  :-\
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Eurohistory on January 22, 2007, 09:20:44 PM
I recently saw a death bed photo of the first Count of Paris (1838-1894), nephew of Victoire Coburg, and he looked terrible as well.  He was onlyu fifty-six years old but his cancer ravaged body looked like that of an 80+ year old, very sad indeed.

This is a custom that has passed now and most royal funerals are closed casket and for our sakes death bed photos are n longer "kosher!"

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 22, 2007, 10:50:05 PM
It's rather morbid but I've collected a lot of deathbed photos--I guess for awhile they were quite popular to issue as postcards and cabinet cards. None of them are particularly horrible but Frederick III of Germany did look so very thin.  :( The British royals didn't put out very many--mostly artistic renderings of the scenes, except for EVII.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: regensburg on August 18, 2008, 04:02:12 PM
Last year a topic on Sophe d'Alençon featured a couple of pictures of Marguerite of Orléans (1846-93). They are no longer there. Does anyone have a copy of them? She is so difficult to find!
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Yseult on September 03, 2008, 03:03:40 PM
Hello...
I´ve found this picture of Marguerite and Blanche, daughters of Victoria, duchess of Nemours, and I wish to know more about the two girls...

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/MargueriteandBlanchedOrleansdaughte.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Mari on September 03, 2008, 11:09:58 PM
Quote
The church crypt temporarily housed the tombs of the exiled French  King Louis-Philippe (died 1850), who was the Duchess of Nemours’ father-in-law, and twelve other members of the French royal family, who died in England between 1856 and 1876. Louis-Philippe and the Orléans family had fled into exile from the Paris revolution of 1848 and had been housed by Queen Victoria on the nearby royal estate of Claremont, near Esher, Surrey. Queen Victoria, despite the political dangers, of which she was warned by her Prime Minister, was very supportive of the exiled King and his family, whom she had first met in France in 1843. This event was celebrated as the first meeting between French and English monarchs since 1520. As well as offering
shelter she encouraged courtiers to write letters to 'The Times' sympathising with the plight of “these poor exiles”  and often invited the Duchess of Nemours in particular, of whom she was very fond, to stay privately at Osborne House on the Isle of White3.

The Orléans family tombs remained in the Weybridge chapel until the French royal family were allowed to return to France in 1876 and all the royal remains, excepting those of the Duchess of Nemours, were removed and re-interred at the royal chapel of the Orléans family at Dreux in Normandy. Her remains stayed at Weybridge until 1979 when her body, but not her tomb effigy, was transferred to Dreux to join that of her husband. In letters to Queen Victoria in 1876 the Duke of Nemours explained that he and his children wished for the Duchess’s body to remain in its ‘modest and respectable retreat’ and was greatly satisfied to hear from the Queen that she shared these feelings, because of her great affection for his family. He turned down, however, the Queen’s offer of arranging to place a commemorative effigy on the bare tomb slab, although he was happy to accept her advice on the matter4.

The Duchess was a close and beloved cousin of both Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. She was a childhood playmate of the Prince’s at Rosenau, his German home, and considered by the Queen to be a bosom friend  “like a dear sister to us” and called “my beloved Vic”5. As well as sharing first names both the Queen and the younger Duchess had married in the same year, 1840. In 1852 the Queen commissioned the painter Franz Xavier Winterhalter (1805-1873) to portray the namesake cousins holding hands as a birthday present for the Duchess’s other cousin Prince Albert6. Five years later, after the Duchess’s death, the Queen wrote that she had been: “so dear, so good, one of those pure, virtuous unobtrusive characters who make a home peaceful, cheerful and happy”7. Charlotte Canning, the Queen’s Lady-in-Waiting, didn’t share her royal mistress’s enthusiasm, agreeing that though she was very pretty and nice to look at: “besides having a tiresome voice she has nothing to say.8” Her fame was spread further when in 1856 a finely scented double white variety of the Peony flower (Paonia lactiflora ‘Duchesse de Nemours’) was named after her in France9.

Watercolour (enlarge)
Watercolour, The Royal Collection (enlarge)

When the Duchess died suddenly on 10 November 1857, only ten days after she had given birth to her fourth child, Blanche, both the Queen and her husband were ‘deeply afflicted’ and ‘completely upset’, and rushed to visit the family on the following day. The Queen provided a highly melodramatic account of the death to Lord Clarendon:

    “We visited the house of mourning yesterday and no words can describe the scene of woe. …There was the broken-hearted, almost distracted widower … and lastly, there was in one room the lifeless, but oh! even in its ghostliness, most beautiful form of his young, lovely, and angelic wife, lying in her bed with her splendid hair covering her shoulders, and a heavenly expression of peace; and in the next room, the dear little pink infant sleeping in its cradle. … The dear Duchess’s death must have been caused by some affection of the heart, for she was perfectly well, having her hair combed, suddenly exclaimed to the Nurse, “Oh! mon Dieu, Madame” – her head fell on one side – and before the Duke could run upstairs her hand was cold!” 10.

Prince Albert wrote equally emotionally to his brother on November 11 and described her as looking “like an angel of beauty, her glorious hair falling over her bosom”. To commemorate her cousin the Queen also compiled an album which included a watercolour of the 'Duchesse de Nemours on her deathbed, after death, 10 November 1857'. This shows her in a similar pose to that adopted by the sculptor Chapu for the tomb effigy11.

Chapu would never have seen the Duchess alive as his effigy was carved some 24 years after her sudden death, nor is he known to have visited England. His serene evocation of the youthful but dead princess must have derived from portraits of her. There is some evidence that he was sent a plaster cast of a portrait bust of the Duchess. On 12 June 1880 Princess Beatrice wrote, on behalf of her mother the Queen, to the Duke of Nemours, that: “the cast of the bust of dear Aunt Victoire that you would like to have is ready and Mother will send it to you. She is very happy for you to have it. I will put you in contact with a sculptor for the monument at Weybridge.”12 The bust from which Queen Victoria had a cast made may have been that by Carlo Marochetti (1805-1867), whose portrait bust of the 'Duchess of Nemours' of about 1857 is still in the Royal Collection13. Despite the Duke’s polite rebuff of Queen Victoria’s offer in 1876 to make arrangements for a tomb effigy she had not been easily deterred. On 7 January 1880 she wrote to him asking whether he had yet decided about the monument, and a year later on 4 January 1881 she wanted to know why he hadn’t discussed further with her the monument that she so wanted to have placed at Weybridge14. She monitored the progress of the monument closely, requesting and receiving photographs of the plaster model, presumably the model now in the Musée Chapu, and the finished marble15. The plaster model for the effigy was finished in July 1881 and by 5 October 1883 the finished marble was in place in a specially constructed alcove on the south of the nave of the recently built extension16. Finally on 29 July 1884 the Queen paid a visit to the Weybridge chapel, as recorded in the Court Circular, and a month later expressed herself “greatly satisfied with the monument and all the other arrangements” in the chapel17. (article continues on:)

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/walker/collections/foreign/duchesse_nemours_chapu.asp
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Mari on September 03, 2008, 11:51:55 PM
I hope you don't mind if I posted a little about the Duchess of Nemours and now for the Daughters:

daughters:
# Margaret (1846-1893),

    * Married Prince Ladislaus Czartoryski

On January 15, 1872 Prince Władysław married his second wife, Princess Marguerite Adelaide d'Orleans, daughter of the Duke of Nemours and granddaughter of King Louis-Philippe of France, with whom he had two more sons in 1872 and 1876.

with Marguerite Adelaide
*Adam Ludwik Czartoryski
*Witold Kazimierz Czartoryski

# Blanche (1857-1932).
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Paola on October 21, 2008, 01:02:03 AM
I think the Duke of Nemours only married once, to Victoria of Saxe Coburg. After she died, he wanted to marry to Princess Helene Sangusko, but his children were against. Any info or pictures of this Princess Helene Sangusko?
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Svetabel on October 21, 2008, 01:24:58 AM
I think the Duke of Nemours only married once, to Victoria of Saxe Coburg. After she died, he wanted to marry to Princess Helene Sangusko, but his children were against. Any info or pictures of this Princess Helene Sangusko?

I think you speak about Helena Sanguszko (1836-1890), who died umarried, she was 2nd daughter of Prince Wladislaw Sanguszko  and Princess Isabella Lubomirskaya. She was buried in the family mausoleum in Tarnow, near her parents and some of her siblings.

Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Paola on October 21, 2008, 02:11:34 AM
Thanks Svetabel.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Norbert on October 21, 2008, 10:34:40 AM
Perhaps you can tell us the tale of this romance...;-) I believe he was the last knight of the Order of the Holy Ghost.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: José on October 26, 2008, 04:18:17 PM
Could you tell me more about Victoria, Duchesse de Nemours?

Somebody posted some facts about Victoria - I guess something that Queen Victoria wrote about her. But I can't find it anymore.

Is there something else known about her short life?

Thanks, Marie


Dear Marie-Charlotte

Here is an articlr about her:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoire_de_Saxe-Cobourg-Kohary
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Norbert on November 02, 2008, 03:11:50 PM
certainly no knowledge of a child called Claes....strange name
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Mari on November 03, 2008, 04:30:59 AM
Quote
Could you tell me more about Victoria, Duchesse de Nemours?
Quote

Duchess of Nemours p. 137-139

http://books.google.com/books?id=glkRAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA137&dq=Duchess+of+Nemours.+1822&ei=atIOSZ63BIy4yATYyYyvBw
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on November 04, 2008, 11:54:23 AM
Thanks. :-)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 02, 2008, 12:00:56 PM
Yesterday I found this photo in the internet.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/m505205_ph-853-scan_p.jpg)

I read on this page that this photo shows Victoire de Nemours and her sons Gaston and Ferdinand. First of all I was very excited, because I have never seen a photo of Victoire alive before (I only know the one on her deadbed), but then I started thinking. I mean, Victoire died in 1857 when photography wasn't common at all. But nevertheless, let's imagine that this pic was taken around 1857, shortly before her death. This means that her sons had to be 15 (Gaston) and 13 (Ferdinand). To me, they look definitely younger. Or is there a possibility that this photo was taken much earlier? What do you think? In my opinion, the boy on the right looks a lot like Ferdinand.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: beladona on December 02, 2008, 02:43:10 PM
I think, that boys on this photo are younger than 15 and 13 years...
and the photo itself doesn´t look like to be taken around 1857, it looks younger...but I´m not specialist....
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 02, 2008, 03:12:57 PM

I think we need Sveta! :-)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: REMI on December 02, 2008, 03:46:58 PM

I think we need Sveta! :-)

Marie Charlotte, King of the Frenchmen  Louis-Philippe died in 1850 and however some photos of him do exist...In my opinion, the boy on the right is Gaston of Orléans, count of Eu...

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 02, 2008, 05:12:13 PM

Yes, I know. There is also a photograph of Marie Louise, Napoléon's second wife, who died in 1847. But photos which were taken around 1850 are rare ...

That's funny. I was absoluely sure about the identification of the boy on the right. But you are really good in identifying, too. ;-) So let's wait for other suggestions.

Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Mari on December 03, 2008, 02:25:31 AM
Gaston d'Orleans Comte d'Eau 1842-1922

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Gaston_conde_1865_001.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cound_of_Eu_1847.jpg  Gaston

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Gaston_conde_1870_003.JPG



Ferdinand d'Orleans, Duc d'Alencon 1844-1910
http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/person.asp?search=as&occ=49%3BRoyalty+and+Society&lDate=&LinkID=mp62361     

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Duquedealen%C3%A7on.JPG

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=CHERCHER&FIELD_98=REPR&VALUE_98=%20Alen%E7on%20duc%20d'&DOM=All&REL_SPECIFIC=1
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: REMI on December 03, 2008, 03:24:43 AM
Yesterday I found this photo in the internet.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/m505205_ph-853-scan_p.jpg)

I read on this page that this photo shows Victoire de Nemours and her sons Gaston and Ferdinand. First of all I was very excited, because I have never seen a photo of Victoire alive before (I only know the one on her deadbed), but then I started thinking. I mean, Victoire died in 1857 when photography wasn't common at all. But nevertheless, let's imagine that this pic was taken around 1857, shortly before her death. This means that her sons had to be 15 (Gaston) and 13 (Ferdinand). To me, they look definitely younger. Or is there a possibility that this photo was taken much earlier? What do you think? In my opinion, the boy on the right looks a lot like Ferdinand.

Finally, Marie-Charlotte,  you must be  right... I think also that "the boy on the right" looks like Ferdinand, duke of Alençon...

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Paola on December 04, 2008, 06:46:34 AM
For me, the boy on the left looks almost for sure to be  Gaston so the one on the right has to be Ferdinand. The boys look indeed younger than 15 and 13. If the picture was taken in 1857, then Victoria was pregnant of her fourth child Blanche.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 04, 2008, 10:52:23 AM
If the picture was taken in 1857, then Victoria was pregnant of her fourth child Blanche.

I also thought of Victoire's fourth pregnancy. But wearing a black, loose cape, we wouldn't see her belly anyway.

Are you sure that this picture is a photograph? Couldn't it be a painting?
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: REMI on December 04, 2008, 11:13:21 AM
...or a daguerréotype? I'm not a specialist...

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Jose II on December 09, 2008, 03:01:07 PM


Ferdinand d'Orleans, Duc d'Alencon 1844-1910
http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/person.asp?search=as&occ=49%3BRoyalty+and+Society&lDate=&LinkID=mp62361     

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Duquedealen%C3%A7on.JPG

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=CHERCHER&FIELD_98=REPR&VALUE_98=%20Alen%E7on%20duc%20d'&DOM=All&REL_SPECIFIC=1


There seems to be a hicup on the "www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde" site.

The 7 and 6th photos from the end both have the legend Ferdinand d'Alençon.
Yet it is clear that the 2 boys are not the same.
And Alençon is playing chess with his cousin, portrayed as him.
Who could be the boy from pic 6th couting from the end ?
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: REMI on December 09, 2008, 06:16:03 PM
You are right, José II, the boy from pic 6th counting from the end is Louis-Philippe d'Orléans, prince of Condé (1845-1866), duke d'Aumale's son. Not Duke of Alençon! There are some mistakes on this website....

REMI
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Svetabel on December 13, 2008, 05:37:02 AM

I think we need Sveta! :-)

Thanks  :))

I believe in the photo are Victoire and her sons, but it was taken definitely earlier than 1857.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: REMI on March 05, 2009, 02:29:21 AM

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/Margueriete.jpg)
Marguerite d'Orléans, princess Czartoryski and her two sons: Adam and Witold (on the left)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/BlancheIV.jpg)
Blanche d'Orléans
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 02, 2009, 03:18:24 AM
In the thread about Infanta Maria Anna we came across a photo of lovely Princess Marguerite. Maybe it's time to collect some pictures and to add some information about her. :-)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 02, 2009, 10:48:22 AM
Marguerite (1846-93) was the 3rd child & elder daughter of Louis, Duke of Nemours & his wife Victoire of Saxe-Coburg. As a child she was nicknamed “Minette” (Puss) and her cousin Charlotte of Belgium said of her that she had a “funny little face, quite like a cat’s”.
She was 11 when she lost her mother and was reported to be disconsolate. The children were called in to kiss their dead mother’s hand and it must have been a painful experience.

After the 1848 Revolution the Orléans fled to England where the Nemours went to live with King Louis Philippe & Queen Marie Amélie in Claremont. They were compelled to leave the castle after Marie Amélie’s death in 1866 and settled at Bushy House near Hampton Court. Marguerite wrote to her brother Alençon how sad she was to leave Claremont where they had spent their childhood.

As a teenager, she fell in love with her cousin Louis “Guégué”, prince of Condé, eldest surviving son of the Duke of Aumale. Condé reciprocated her feelings and the cousins were unofficially engaged. Unfortunately the young man died of typhoid fever in Australia (Sydney) in 1866. Marguerite was sitting for the painter Jalabert when she was told the devastating news.

Nemours began looking for a husband for his daughter and thought about the bavarian prince Carl Theodor, son of duke Max & duchess Ludovica. He wrote to his sister Clémentine Coburg in Vienna to enlist her help : “My dear friend, I appeal to your fraternal kindness about Marguerite’s future which is the main interest of my life. I have long thought that the best parti for her would be prince Carl Theodor. The warm welcome my children & I received from duchess Max last summer and what I saw of their family life have confirmed my choice. [...] I thought good empress Caroline [of Austria] could be of help. She has always been good and kind to me & mine and I hope she will agree to help us. I wish you would respectfully ask her if my plan meets her approval, if she thinks it wise to persist and whether she would agree to help me discover what the prince’s intentions are”.  Empress Caroline was willing to help and suggested an exchange of young princesses (Marguerite against duchess Sophie-Charlotte) as "Carl Theodor’s mother is anxious to have her daughter married after all that happened [the broken engagement btw Sophie & King Ludwig II]”. Sophie-Charlotte did marry the duke of Alençon but Gackel turned Marguerite down. Alençon thought Gackel had not been fair to his sister and was much angered. Archduchess Sophie also considered the young girl for her son Karl Ludwig but nothing came of it.

Marguerite finally went on to marry the widowed Polish prince Ladislas Czartoryski. Ladislas’s first wife had been a daughter of Queen Maria Cristina of Spain by her 2nd husband, the duke of Riansares. The civil wedding took place in Paris on Jan. 13 1872 and the religious one 3 days later in Chantilly castle. Marguerite’s wedding dress was of white satin strewn with lace and orange blossoms. On her head she wore a tulle veil and a crown of orange blossoms. Her cousin Chiquita Chartres wrote to her husband : "I trust Marguerite will be very happy. She is my best friend you know and I ardently wish to see her happy. The prince looks good and so distinguished it almost makes me forget his age [Ladislas was 43 when he married Marguerite]”. The newly-weds settled in the magnificent hôtel Lambert on the Saint Louis island in the heart of Paris. Two sons were born, Adam in 1872 and Witold in 1876.

Marguerite was noted throughout her life for her sweetness of temper, her quiet and dutiful character. She was able to get on well with her sister-in-law Sophie-Charlotte who was not much liked in the family (at least among the women of her own generation). She was also very pious and became a member of the Third Order of Saint Francis.

She died in Paris in 1893 (the bad state of her lungs seems to have been the cause). Her husband survived her a few months only and died in June 1894.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Svetabel on April 03, 2009, 01:00:04 AM
Agneschen, so great you are back : ). Thanks for the info on Marguerite.

I am always interested in the French and Italian Catholic Princesses who married Polish Princes. Was Marguerite's choice of husband just a result of looking for a Catholic Prince of their marriage was for love?
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 03, 2009, 05:07:19 AM
I really do not know if they married for love or not Sveta. The duke of Nemours seemed to be desperate to find a husband for her daughter. Besides Marguerite was already 26 when she married and her husband a widower of 43 which would tend to make me think it was a marriage of convenience. But still I may be totally wrong and they may have been in love. There is so little (or actually so little published) about Marguerite that it is hard to know. She seems to have been close to her brothers, I have seen extracts of letters between them quoted here & there that always were very interesting. I wish some historians would publish them, they would probably help us know a lot more. The family ties in King Louis Philippe's family were very strong, his children & grandchildren wrote a lot to each others. I do wish these correspondances would come to light.

Marguerite & little sister Blanche :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/th_MinetteBlanche.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/MinetteBlanche.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 03, 2009, 05:37:23 AM
I didn't know that Marguerite was Czartoryski's second wife. Now I had a look into at some genealogical sites and have some questions:

1. I read that Maria Cristina of Spain married in December 1833, shortly after Ferdinando VII.'s death, an ex-sergeant of the royal guard, Augustín Fernández Muñoz, Duke of Riansares - secretly. But they had at least seven children... How did they manage to keep their marriage a secret??
As far as I know, Maria Cristina was also the mother of Luisa Fernanda duchess of Montpensier. Is there anything known about her relationship to her half-siblings and about the feelings she had when she heard that her half-sister's widower married her niece Marguerite?

2. Czartoryski and his first wife Doña Maria Amparo had a son, August Franciszek ("Gucio") who became a priest. Is it true that Pope Johannes Paul II. made him a saint in 2004? Why?
And do we know anything about Marguerite's relationship to her step-son? He was 14 when his father remarried.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 08:49:59 AM
There's a thread on the family here:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=4044.0

Here's what Grand Duke wrote:

Bl. Augusto Czartoryski (1858-1893)
Priest of the Salesians of Don Bosco

Augusto Czartoryski was born on 2 August 1858 in Paris, France, the firstborn son to Prince Ladislaus of Poland and Princess Maria Amparo, daughter of the Duke and Queen of Spain. The noble Czartoryski Family had been living in exile in France for almost 30 years, in the Lambert Palace. Here, with the hope of restoring unity in Poland, they continued to direct activities between their fellow Polish countrymen and the European chancellery.

Plans for a future Prince

It was already planned that Augusto would be a future "reference point" for this restoration and would carry on the "Czartoryski" name. God's designs, however, were to unfold differently.

When Augusto was 6, his mother died of tuberculosis; the disease was also transmitted to him, and for the rest of his life he would be plagued by ill health. Although he had to make "forced pilgrimages" with his father to Italy, Switzerland, Egypt and Spain in search of a cure, he never regained his health.

As he grew up, Augusto felt that he was not meant for the life of nobility, and one day, when he was 20 years old, he wrote to his father: "I confess to you that I am tired [of all the parties]; they are superficial entertainments that cause me anguish and I feel myself 'forced' to make acquaintances with others at these banquets".

Augusto already received spiritual direction from his tutor, Joseph Kalinsowski, who would later become a Carmelite, and who, before leaving for Carmel in 1877, wrote to Prince Ladislaus to suggest that it would be wise, considering the boy's love for God, to entrust him to the direction of a priest.

Encounter with Don Bosco

Prince Ladislaus accepted the counsel given by Augusto's tutor, and Fr Stanislaus Kubowicz began to guide him. Augusto was already feeling more and more called to religious life and was hoping for a clearer indication of what God wanted from him: this "decisive event" took place when he was 25 and met Don Bosco, founder of the Salesians.

When Don Bosco came to Paris and celebrated Mass in the family chapel of the Lambert Palace, Augusto saw in this holy founder and teacher the "father of his soul" and guide for his future. While Augusto remained quiet and withdrawn in the face of matrimony plans made for him by his father, he had no intention of continuing the "noble line". Indeed, after his first encounter with the Salesian saint, he was more resolute than ever to answer God's call by becoming a Salesian.

When his father gave him permission, Augusto would travel to Turin to meet with Don Bosco and participate in spiritual retreats. He became comfortable with the "poverty" of the Salesian Oratory and was not disturbed by his frequent ill health or his father's opposition; he instead saw God's hand in all these circumstances.

He would say: "If God wants this, all will go well since he can take away every obstacle. If he does not want this, then neither do I".

A 'Prince' for God's Kingdom

Don Bosco was somewhat reluctant to accept Augusto into the Salesian community: it took Pope Leo XIII to remove his doubts when he gave Augusto this message: "Tell Don Bosco that it is the Pope's will that he receives you among the Salesians".

Don Bosco replied: "Well then, my dear son, I accept you. From this moment, you are a part of the Salesian Family and I desire that you belong here until you die".

In 1887 he began his novitiate under the guidance of Don Giulio Barberis. The young man had to overcome many "habits" and adjust to community life, schedule, frugal meals and other sacrifices. All this he did with great serenity and abandonment to God.

When his father came to try to convince him to return home and accept his nobility as "Prince", he refused. On 24 November 1887, the day of his vesting in the hands of Don Bosco, the holy founder whispered into Augusto's ear: "Courage, my prince! Today we have conquered, and I can also say with great joy that one day when you become a priest you will do much for your Country".

One year as Christ's priest

Don Bosco died two months later. Augusto's health was also worsening and his father continued to try to dissuade him from becoming a priest, using his ill health as an "excuse".

When Prince Ladislaus asked the "help" of Cardinal Parocchi to dismiss him from the Saiesians, Augusto wrote: "In full liberty I made my vows and I did this with great joy of heart. From that day I continue to live in the Congregation with an immense peace of spirit, and I thank the Lord for allowing me to know the Salesian Family and for having called me to become a Salesian".

On 2 April 1892 he was ordained a priest by the Bishop of Ventimiglia, Although Prince Ladislaus was not present at the Ordination, a month later, coined by the entire family in Mentone, he reconciled himself with his son's decision and renounced his own dreams of prestige and nobility for Augusto.

Fr Augusto died on 8 April 1893 in Alassio, where he lived his year as a priest, occupying a room which looked out onto the courtyard where the children of the Oratory played. He was 35 years old.


(I copied this from a site, so I don't know if it has any mistakes).
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 08:51:08 AM
Art added this:

Czartoriski-Royalty marriages:

a. Wladislaw (1828-1894) married 1872 Princess Marguerite of Orléans (1846-1893)

b. Olgierd (1888-1977) married 1913 Archduchess Mechtildis of Austria (1891-1966)

c. Izabelle (1902-1929) married in 1927 Prince Gabriel of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1897-1975)

d. Jozef August (1907-1946) married 1937 Princess María de los Dolores of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1909-1996)

The Czartoriski entered the royal marriage market with the alliance between Prince Wladislaw and Princess Marguerite of Orléans, a daughter of Prince Louis, Duke de Nemours and his wife Princess Victoire of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (Kohary Line). Their Parisian residence, the Hôtel Lambert, was the sire of many a royal event in its time before being acquired by the Rothschild family.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 08:51:38 AM
The family website listed this about Wladislaw:

Younger son but political heir to his father, and artistic heir to his Grandmother Izabela. Marries Maria Amparo Countess of Vista Alegre, daughter of Queen Cristina of Spain, by morganatic relation to the Duke of Riancares. The couple becomes friends with Emperor Napoleon III and Empress Eugenia de Montijo, due to Spanish origin of both Ladies.

In 1872 Marries his second wife Princess Marguerite Orleans, grandaughter of King Loius-Philippe of France.

Also, his son Auguste from his first marriage, was beatified by the RCC. Prince Wladyslaw was totally opposed to his son's choice (to join the  Salesian order) and even went as far as to plead his case to the Pope Leon XIII. But in June 1887 Auguste renounced to all his family rights and inheritance, in favour of brothers from his father marriage with Princess Marguerite de Orleans. On the 24th of November 1887 Prince Auguste received his cloak from the hands of Don Bosco with these words, "My dear Prince today we have won a great victory. Be courageous and with God's will you will do a lot of good to your Country" His priesthood was very short and he died on Easter Day the 8th of April 1893 at the age of thirty-five leaving behind an example of strength, faith and love he is buried in Poland in the Silesian church in Przemysl.

His Holiness Pope Jean Paul II beatified Prince Auguste in Rome on the 25th of April 2004. Prince Adam Karol and Princess Josette Czartoryski attended with the Polish Ambassador to the Vatican Mrs. Hannah Suchocka. Around fifty members of the Czartoryski Family joined the ceremony along with all the people who came from Poland for the occasion. That evening and His Holiness granted a private audience to the Family with his benediction to all participants.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 08:51:55 AM
Wladislaw  (1828-1894); m.1st 1855 Marie Amparo Muñoz y Borbón Cdsa de Vista-Alegre (1834-1864); m.2d 1872 Marguerite Pss d'Orléans (1846-)

1) Franciszek August, Duque de Vista Alegre (1858-1893)

2) Adam Ludwyk (1872-1937); m.1901 Maria-Luisa Gfn Krasinska

a) Izabelle (1902-1929); m.1927 Gabriel of Bourbon-Two Sicilies
b) Elzbieta (1905-1989); m.1929 Ct Stefan Adam Zamoyski
c) Jozef (1907-1946); m 1937 Dolores of Bourbon-Two Sicilies
d) Anna Maria (1914-1987); m.1936 (div 1948) Pr Wladislaw Radziwill
e) Wladislaw (1918-1978); m. 1949 Elizabeth York
f) Tereza (1923-1967); m.1945 Jan Groda-Kowalski
g) Ludwyk Adam (1927-KIA 1944)

3) Witold (1876-1911)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 06:32:46 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Marguerite_Ad%C3%A9la%C3%AFde_Marie_B%C3%B3rbon-d%27Orl%C3%A9ans.jpg)

her husband

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Czartoryski.JPG/230px-W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Czartoryski.JPG)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/79/Wladyslaw_Czartoryski_%281828-1894%29_2.jpg/200px-Wladyslaw_Czartoryski_%281828-1894%29_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 06:37:11 PM
Her son Adam

(http://czartoryski.fm.interia.pl/AdamLudwik.jpg)

and his wife

(http://czartoryski.fm.interia.pl/Krasinska_Maria.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 07:17:20 PM
A photo REMI posted on the Sophie Alencon thread

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm65/CHARLEMAGNE_2008/Margueriete.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2009, 07:42:34 PM
It was reported in some US newspapers in 1865 that Prince Humbert (later Umberto I) had formed an attachment for Marguerite. I don't know whether this was true, and if so, what became of it, whether the papers confused "Marguerite de Savoie" (Queen Margherita) with the Orleans princess or made it up entirely.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Svetabel on April 05, 2009, 04:46:25 AM
Thanks, Agneschen and GDssElla for the detailed info. All that is very interesting, for me the Polish Princes  and their French/Italian wives is now one more research, as after visiting the Radziwill's family nest Nesvizh (in Belarus) I am much interested in the Polish nobility as well as in any European : ).
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 05, 2009, 07:02:14 AM

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/marguerite02.jpg)

Marguerite d'Orléans
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: trentk80 on April 05, 2009, 11:36:20 AM
I didn't know that Marguerite was Czartoryski's second wife. Now I had a look into at some genealogical sites and have some questions:

1. I read that Maria Cristina of Spain married in December 1833, shortly after Ferdinando VII.'s death, an ex-sergeant of the royal guard, Augustín Fernández Muñoz, Duke of Riansares - secretly. But they had at least seven children... How did they manage to keep their marriage a secret?

According to what I've read, they tried to keep their marriage a secret, but it was very difficult since the Queen was frequently pregnant. As soon as their children were born, they were quickly sent away to be raised far from the court.

Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on April 05, 2009, 09:39:00 PM
GREAT pic MC.

this is either a terrible rendition or not her..
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/loali2/G12479.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on April 05, 2009, 10:28:01 PM
It does seem to certainly be Marguerite..just not a flattering drawing.

that is a very strange necklace. Anyone know anything about it?
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Svetabel on April 06, 2009, 12:35:14 AM
GREAT pic MC.

this is either a terrible rendition or not her..

That's Queen Marguerita of Italy.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on April 06, 2009, 12:55:44 AM
GREAT pic MC.

this is either a terrible rendition or not her..

That's Queen Marguerita of Italy.

Makes sense sveta..although it was with a set of other French Royals.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Paola on April 06, 2009, 01:54:41 AM
GREAT pic MC.

this is either a terrible rendition or not her..
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/loali2/G12479.jpg)


It looks also to me to be Queen Margherita of Italy.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on April 06, 2009, 03:31:56 AM
although her mouth is so much like marguerite orleans.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 06, 2009, 04:43:01 AM
although her mouth is so much like marguerite orleans.

... but Marguerite didn't have such a big nose. It almost reminds me of Princess Clémentine's nose ... :-)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 06, 2009, 04:50:49 AM
I agree with you. This is a young Margherita of Savoy, not Marguerite Nemours. The princess did have a strong nose.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 25, 2009, 09:59:44 AM
A lovely miniature of little Minette :

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/th_Minette.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/Minette.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Veronica on April 25, 2009, 05:18:45 PM
Lovely indeed Agneschen! Is it part of a bracelet with miniatures of his grandchildren that belonged to Louis Philippe? I think there were four bracelets with miniatures of all of them that were auctioned recently...

Drawing of Marguerite and her sister Blanche

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3064/margueriteyblanchedorle.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 25, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
Lovely indeed Agneschen! Is it part of a bracelet with miniatures of his grandchildren that belonged to Louis Philippe? I think there were four bracelets with miniatures of all of them that were auctioned recently...

You are right Veronica. The bracelets were auctioned at Christie's a few months ago. A pity they did not stay in the family - such lovely mementoes.
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 26, 2009, 05:02:39 AM
Agneschen or Veronica, could you please show me the miniatures of the other grandchildren, especially the one of Alencon?
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Agneschen on April 26, 2009, 06:23:43 AM
There you are Marie - Marguerite's siblings Eu, Alençon & Blanche (from left to right) :

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/th_Eu.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/Eu.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/th_Alenon.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/Alenon.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/th_Blanche1.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Royalty/Blanche1.jpg)

You can see the bracelets on Christie's website. They also have 2 previously unknown (at least to me) portraits of Helene Schwerin & Victoire Nemours by Sir Wm Ross and many other things. Many of the miniatures on Queen Marie Amélie's bracelets are copied from Winterhalter (Léopold & Philippe Belgique, Clotilde & Amalie Coburg ...)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Svetabel on June 18, 2009, 02:11:25 PM
One more photo of Marguerite's spouse Wladislaw:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Wadysaw_Czartoryski182894.jpg)

And her son Adam

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Adam_Ludwik_CzartoryskiCzartoryskiA.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Rani on May 17, 2010, 03:50:26 PM
Viktoria de Nemours

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2usami8.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 22, 2010, 12:31:58 PM
Blanche

(http://i47.tinypic.com/ndt193.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Rani on July 21, 2010, 06:15:21 PM
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9672/1870.jpg)

Duc d´Aumale?
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Veronica on July 21, 2010, 07:06:20 PM
Duc de Nemours
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 18, 2010, 11:59:03 AM
Miniature of Louis. duc d Orleans

(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9589/ferdinandducdorleans.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/ferdinandducdorleans.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Duke Louis de Nemours, and his family
Post by: Hector on August 24, 2011, 07:33:40 PM
Does anybody know where exactly in Vienna Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Kohary was born?

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/vanozzacatanei/VictoriaDuchessofNemours.jpg)

Viktorie Auguste Antoinette von Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha, later Victoire duchesse de Nemours!

Victoria was born in Vienna, 14 february 1822. She was daughter of prince Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha by his wife, the catholic hungarian noblewoman Maria Antonia Gabriela von Kohàry of Csabrag. On 17 april 1840, in Saint Cloud, Victoria married Louis d´Orleans, duke of Nemours.