Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Wittlesbachs => Topic started by: umigon on January 21, 2006, 11:11:08 AM

Title: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: umigon on January 21, 2006, 11:11:08 AM

This thread is just to show that Sophie of Bavaria, daughter of Duke Max in Bavaria and Elizabeth Douglas and wife of Prince Alois of Liechtenstein is descended, through her father, from Erzsébet Báthori (1560-1614), the Blood Countess!

Sophie (1967)
Max Wittelsbach (1937)
Maritta Draskovich von Trakostjan (1905-1969)
Dénes Maria Draskovich (1875-1909)
Pál Draskovich (1846-1889)
Károly Draskovich (1807-1855)
József Draskovich (1773-1818)
Ferenc Draskovich (1750-1817)
József Kázmér Draskovich
János Draskovich (d. 1733)
Maria Magdolna Nadasdy
Ferenc Nadasdy (1622-1671)
Pál Nadasdy (1598-1650)
Erzsébet Báthori (1560-1614)

(source: http://genealogy.euweb.cz/hung/nadasdy2.html#MM)

Not a great piece of information, but interesting and curious, nevertheless!
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Svetabel on January 25, 2006, 05:05:29 AM
Nice inheritance... :)
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Bernardino on January 25, 2006, 04:35:16 PM
Maybe Aloys didn't know this before he proposed !  ;D
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Prince_Lieven on January 25, 2006, 04:36:55 PM
Let's hope he doesn't read this or he might want to end it.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Bernardino on January 25, 2006, 04:41:32 PM
Well I think they cannot divorce...

I can imagine now Sophie up in the hills on Schloss Vaduz...brrr....

I'm just joking...I like them a lot...Oh how I would love that much more royals were like them... ::)
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: umigon on January 26, 2006, 05:06:26 AM
They are a nice couple... Nothing to do with Sophie's infamous ancestor... :P
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on May 15, 2007, 01:26:43 PM
i don't know if this has been discussed before....

i seem to remember reading in one of Elisabeth's biographies about a fortuneteller, or some type of soothsayer, who "predicted"  one of the sisters would die by steel (Elisabeth), one by fire (Sophie)...   and i can't remember the rest.   (btw, the fortuneteller didn't specify which sister would die by what method.)


does anyone know the rest of the "prediction"?

and, out of morbid curiosity, how did each sister die (regardless of the prediction)?


thanx.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Michael II on May 15, 2007, 03:40:30 PM
Let's see how good my memory is :D:  Elizabeth was assassinated by being stabbed,  Sophie died by fire,  Helene died of cancer,
Mathilde and Maria both died of old age I believe.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on May 15, 2007, 04:53:42 PM
did any of the siblings (brother/s included) drown?
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Michael II on May 15, 2007, 07:22:59 PM
None of the brothers died of drowning that I know of.  Ludwig II King of Bavaria and cousin to said family died in a drowning accident/murder.  It is still being questioned after all these years.  Mysterious circumstances etc.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: britt.25 on May 29, 2007, 05:47:08 AM
When did Sisi personally hear of those possible destinies of her family? Did she hear about that at all? Was she not preoccupied, when hearing about that? And Franz Joseph? Wasn´t he afraid or anything like that?
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Greenowl on May 29, 2007, 10:43:44 AM
I think Brigitte Hamann refers to the "prophecy" in "Elisabeth, Kaiserin wider Willen"...well, I either read about it there OR on one of the forums devoted to Elisabeth (unfortunately I'm not sure, but I did read about it somewhere). What I read is that a fortune teller saw the three children/young people together (Elisabeth, Sophie and their cousin Ludwig) and told them "you should be careful of steel" (Elisabeth), "you should be careful of fire" (Sophie) "and you should be careful of water" (Ludwig). However, it is probably just a legend that became embelished over the years, and I am not aware that Elisabeth ever referred to it
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: José on May 29, 2007, 01:10:09 PM
A little bit O/T but since it relates to Sisi ...
There seem to be many stories about Sisi and fortune tellers.
I read one involving Sisi and her lady-in-waiting Maria Victoria Douglas Hamilton, ex-wife of Pr.Albert I of Monaco, and, by the time, married to Pr. Tassilo Festetics of Tolna.
Sisi invited a fortune teller gipsy woman and asked her to read both her fortune and Maria Victoria's.
The story doesn't mention what was Sisi's future, only M.Victoria and was told by Gishlaine Dommanget  to an italian professor (?)
The gipsy allegedely predicted that all princesses of Monaco would be unhappy until the mid.20th century.
One princess had to be in Monaco by then, to break the curse that came from the times when the first Grimaldi attacked the Monaco fortress disguised as a monk.
And Monaco had a long story of unhappy princesses.
Albert I was first married to M.Victoria who left him and ran to her grand-parents in Baden with her young son the future Louis II.
Albert remarried Alice Heine, dowager duchess of Richelieu who cheated on him and was ordered to leave Monaco after some years.
Then followed Louis who remained a bachelor until 76 years old when he decided to marry Ghislaine, an actress 30 years younger.
His own legitimized daughter, Charlotte, was hastly married to Pr.Pierre de Polignac whom she divorced after produceing an heir.
(Later she lived with a criminal, who was introuced as her ... chauffeur).
Her daughter Antoinette also had a turbulent love life, starting with a nazi stationed in Monaco during WW2 she wanted to marry, her marriage to 1st husband Alexandre Noghes (with whom she previously had her 3 children), then the second marriage to Jean-Charles Rey with whom she plotted to dethrone Rainier and finally her last one month marriage to John Gilpin.

So when Louis II married Ghislaine, he made her sware she would not leave Monaco before January 1st 1950, the date when the curse would end.
Ghislaine was very impressed but she agreed and intended to remain in Monaco, but then Louis died in 1949.
Apparently there was a rift between Rainier and Ghislaine about Louis' will and in the end Rainier ordered his step-grand-mother to leave the country, preventing her from fulfilling the promise she had made and brake the curse.
And then the curse followed:
Rainier and Grace's marriage, at the end, was far from happy and ended tragically with her fatal accident.
Caroline's 1st wedding with Junot was less than perfect, the 2nd wedding with Stefano Casiraghi also ended tragically with his death at the boat race, and her wedding with E-A ...  :-\
As to Stephanie's marriages, better not speak about them  ::)
Let's see what the next generation will bring .

As to Ghislaine she was allowed to return to Monaco for Rainier's wedding and was also present in 1982 at Grace's funeral.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Greenowl on May 30, 2007, 05:39:35 PM
That is very interesting! I had never heard about it before.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: belianis on March 20, 2009, 08:23:39 PM
What is the present medical opinion as to what mental disease afflicted King Otto?
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: belianis on March 29, 2009, 08:00:29 PM
I have read that, when Otto was told of his brother's death which made him King of Bavaria, and decades later when he was told of his deposition, both times he reacted exactly the same way: with total indifference, as if both events didn't register at all. What kind of mental illness could cause such an illogical lack of response?
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Linnie on April 04, 2009, 03:32:15 PM
I think that it was schizophrenia. I may be confused but I think that Otto never became King of Bavaria, because of his mental illness. Otto was declared insane before Ludwig became King and, therefore, had no claims to the Bavarian throne.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: allanraymond on April 04, 2009, 04:03:20 PM
Otto became King but under the Regency of his uncle  Prince Luitpold of Bavaria until 1912. Otto was removed from the throne in 1913 when Luitpold's son Ludwig became King.

Allan Raymond

I think that it was schizophrenia. I may be confused but I think that Otto never became King of Bavaria, because of his mental illness. Otto was declared insane before Ludwig became King and, therefore, had no claims to the Bavarian throne.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Lilian de Rethy on April 13, 2009, 05:47:10 AM
I read in the book "Der Schattenkönig" about Otto, that he had symtomes of the borderline-syndrome!
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 19, 2009, 08:01:25 PM
All your posts are interesting, but your post about Sissi is very interesting for me,
I didn't knew. I also knew that Sissi was very superstitious and that she practiced
the spiritism.
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 06, 2009, 08:23:32 PM
Sissi was very worried about madness, a common problem in her family
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Lisa49 on October 30, 2009, 02:16:43 PM
I read the same story about Sisi, Sophie and Ludvig their cosine and when he drown Sisi became more
afraid. I just cann`t remember who died first, Sisi or Sophie.
Lisa49
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 03, 2009, 02:30:00 PM
Sophie died before tham Empress Sissi, she died in 1897 and Sissi in 1898, not a great difference,
but Sophie's death was sadder even than Sissi's one :-(
Title: Re: Tragedies, Curses & Madness in the House of Wittelsbach
Post by: allan on November 11, 2009, 12:57:54 PM
The constitution of Bavaria was amended on 4 November 1913, to include a clause specifying that if a regency for reasons of incapacity lasted for ten years with no expectation that the King would ever be able to reign, the Regent could proclaim the end of the regency and assume the crown himself.
 
The following day, Otto was deposed by his cousin, Prince Regent Ludwig, who then assumed the title Ludwig III. The parliament assented on 6 November, and Ludwig III took the constitutional oath on 8 November. Otto was permitted to retain his title and honours until his death in 1916.

Bavaria had, thus, two kings, from 1913-1916. Many Bavarians saw this as a curse and two years after Otto's death, monarchy in Bavaria came to an end. The Luitpold branch of the Wittelsbach family was not very much liked by the Bavarians. Manys saw Luitpold and his son Ludwig - Ludwig II's uncle and cousin - as the mastermind of Ludwig II's deposition and his death.

Otto became King but under the Regency of his uncle  Prince Luitpold of Bavaria until 1912. Otto was removed from the throne in 1913 when Luitpold's son Ludwig became King.

Allan Raymond

I think that it was schizophrenia. I may be confused but I think that Otto never became King of Bavaria, because of his mental illness. Otto was declared insane before Ludwig became King and, therefore, had no claims to the Bavarian throne.