Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Palaces in St. Petersburg => Topic started by: mclisa on January 23, 2006, 10:32:46 AM

Title: Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on January 23, 2006, 10:32:46 AM
In "The Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg."  the water color of the Winter Palace church, also called the private chapel in other sources, is called "The Church of the Holy Encounter."  I can't identify this name with anything in Western Christian iconography.

Can someone please tell me the Russian name of the church/chapel? I read Russian letters, so it doesn't have to be transliterated.  If anyone knows an alternative name in English, I'd like that as well.

Thanks!  

Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: xirbis on January 23, 2006, 02:23:28 PM
Must be "Sretenie" in Church-Slavonic, or "the Encounter of Our Lord with the Righteous Symeon and Anna in the Temple of Jerusalem". Named apparently after one of the Great 12 Feasts of the Orthodox Church, celebrated on the 2d of February (Gregorian Calendar). The Feast commemorates the event of meeting between Child Jesus, Our Lady and the righteous Elders Symeon and Anna, described in the Gospel of Luke. It took place 40 days after the Nativity. The Mother (Our Lady Ever Virgin Mary)  followed the law prescribing mothers to take part in a purification ceremony 40 days after a childbirth. The rudiment of this Old Testament practise is present in Orthodox Church's practise even today - see the Evhologion, or Trebnik, or The Book of Needs - the ritual of "Prayer over the mother on the 40Th day after childbirth" - precedes or follows the Ritual of baptism.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on January 23, 2006, 02:45:07 PM
Thank you!  This event is normally called The Presentation (in the Temple) in English, and less commonly The Purification (of the Virgin.) The February 2nd date proves it.

I can't blame the translator for giving the literal English translation of the Slavonic title, and not realizing that the feast is called by a different name in English.

Bolshoe spasibo!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on January 23, 2006, 02:47:10 PM
This chapel was usually referred to as the Small Church, but its official name was Tserkov' Sreteniya Gospodnya  - Candlemas Church, isn't it?
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on January 24, 2006, 07:34:28 AM
Thanks, Mike. Candlemas is of course the colloquial name for this feast in English, since it was customary in pre-Reformation England to bless candles for the coming church year on this date.

Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: David_Pritchard on January 24, 2006, 11:00:24 AM
While we are on this topic, what is the name for the large church in the Winter Palace that is now used as an exhibition hall? Maybe this is the same church but I surely would not describe it as small.  

I have only noticed one church dome on the roof of the Winter Palace, to which church or chapel does it belong?

David
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: pers on January 24, 2006, 11:11:45 AM
No, it is not the same one.  The one under discussion is close to the private apartments of Nicholas and Alexandra in the Winter Palace.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on January 24, 2006, 12:20:07 PM
The dome is over the Winter Palace Cathedral, which is indeed used as an exhibition room.  The museum website even dwells on the fact! Its dedication is to The Savior Not Made By Hands (among other translations I've seen.) This name has no standard English form. It refers to the icon derived from what the Western church called "Veronica's veil."  According to a legend which isn't mentioned in the Gospels, a woman from the crowd wiped Jesus's face with her veil as he was carrying the cross.  The cloth retained a miraculous image of his face.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: David_Pritchard on January 24, 2006, 01:18:26 PM
Quote
The dome is over the Winter Palace Cathedral, which is indeed used as an exhibition room.  The museum website even dwells on the fact! Its dedication is to The Savior Not Made By Hands (among other translations I've seen.) This name has no standard English form. It refers to the icon derived from what the Western church called "Veronica's veil."  According to a legend which isn't mentioned in the Gospels, a woman from the crowd wiped Jesus's face with her veil as he was carrying the cross.  The cloth retained a miraculous image of his face.


In Orthodox iconography the story of The Face Made Not With Hands is different from that of the Catholic story of Veronica's Veil but with the same outcome, that is an image of Jesus on a cloth.

The miraculous impression of the face of Christ was found in Edessa in 544 and sent to Constantinople in 547. The story behind the origin of this image is that a king in Asia Minor heard of the miracles and teachings of Jesus and that he sent his court painter to the Holy Land to paint a picture of the miraculous prophet. When the painter found Jesus he became very nervous in Christ's presence and was unable to paint with shaky hands, Jesus noticed his dillema and walked over, took the canvas and simply pressed his face against it leaving the impression or portrait 'not made with hands.'

This icon is very popular among the Old Believers.

David
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on January 24, 2006, 02:42:01 PM
The full name of the Winter Palace's large church is Sobor Spasa Nerukotvornogo Obraza. The Russian work nerukotvornyj has a wider and deeper meaning than "made not with hands". In Russian cultural context it's usually associated with Pushkin's Exegi Monumentum.  Vladimir Nabokov translates nerukotvornyj (as used by Pushkin) as "unforged".

Probably the church name should better be translated as Cathedral of Saviour's Miraculous Image.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on January 24, 2006, 02:46:29 PM
Thank you, David! That glow in the direction of the U.S. Midwest is me, blushing. :) While I was aware of the Mandylion, ie. the Holy Face of Edessa, and indeed should have stopped to think about the difference, I managed to get confused and misstate the facts about the Orthodox icon.  

Thank you also for the Russian name.  
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: David_Pritchard on January 29, 2006, 12:51:57 PM
Quote
The dome is over the Winter Palace Cathedral, which is indeed used as an exhibition room.  The museum website even dwells on the fact! Its dedication is to The Savior Not Made By Hands (among other translations I've seen.) This name has no standard English form. It refers to the icon derived from what the Western church called "Veronica's veil."  According to a legend which isn't mentioned in the Gospels, a woman from the crowd wiped Jesus's face with her veil as he was carrying the cross.  The cloth retained a miraculous image of his face.


A photograph of the Cathedral Not Made With Hands in its present state:

(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5873/hm52114big9bs.jpg)
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Dctalk3185 on March 13, 2006, 10:43:30 PM
Hi all!

This is my first post! I was just wondering if anyone knows if the Chapel was where Grand Duke Serge and Ella were married, as well as were Nick and Alex were wed. I read the book Nicholas and Alexandra which said that Serge and Ella were married in a chapel in the Winter Palace. I just wanted it confirmed that it was this chapel (and only from what I can see). Thank You

cheers!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: mclisa on March 14, 2006, 02:16:59 PM
Both couples were married in the Winter Palace Church. This is not the same as the chapel, which is off the Rotunda near Nicholas and Alexandra's apartments in the Winter Palace. The Church is on the other side of the palace.  

There are plans of the Winter Palace on this site in various topics which will show you where the two are located.

Welcome aboard!

Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: hikaru on March 29, 2006, 10:32:16 PM
Catherine the Great ordered to make a sauna just under the Big Churche.
She met her lovers orten there :)
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: edwardcharles on July 09, 2006, 01:22:04 PM
Has anyone got any decent pictures of the rotunda at the winter palace?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Mike on July 09, 2006, 03:04:25 PM
(http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/tmplobs/PSK3_236E6H_40BRHW1P6.jpg)
By Yefim Tukharinov, 1834.
(http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/tmplobs/YW$VQ9DNBCO4TDZV6.jpg)
By Edward Hau, 1862.
(http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/imgs_En/05/hm5_2_1_1_big.jpg)
Current view.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Joanna on November 04, 2006, 10:08:12 PM
Having read various accounts of the Epiphany celebrations held by the Neva at the Winter Palace, it is interesting to finally see this series of photographs c1900s:

Nicholas II leaving the Winter Palace c1908:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001538085
Nicholas II returning to the Winter Palace after the ceremony c1908:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001538031

http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001538545
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001538679
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001538845
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001538004
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001539324
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001539404
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2001539510

Joanna



Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: ChristineM on November 05, 2006, 03:40:18 AM
How interesting to see actual pictures of the Epiphany ceremony at the Winter Palace, images that before have never been more than imaginings.

Thank you Joanna

tsaria
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Arleen on November 05, 2006, 11:13:02 AM
In the photograph of Nicholas returning to the Winter Palace can anyone identify any of the men with him?

In the first one which entrance/exit was N. coming out of?  Is it right on the Neva side of the Palace?  Never having been there I can't orient myself.

These photographs are priceless!  The best.  Thanks Joanna!

A
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Lucien on August 06, 2007, 02:34:50 AM
http://www.asergeev.com/pictures/archives/compress/2005/459/05.htm

A wealth of images and links.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Arleen on August 07, 2007, 09:09:50 AM
Thank you for posting this link Lucien.  Mr. Sergeev is a wonderful photographer.  I am going to spend hours with his files after looking at his New Orleans photos....apparently he is residing in NO now. 

A
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Alixz on July 09, 2008, 08:12:47 AM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318034/

I just found this site.  This is a walk through of the Winter Palace by a "ghost" who takes us through 33 rooms and many eras (not necessarily in order).

It is in Russian, but it looks like a feast for the eyes.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: pers on July 09, 2008, 10:24:58 AM
It comes with english subtitles.  I can strongly recommend this film for purchase.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 09, 2008, 11:27:39 AM
There might already be a therad on this film. It is a classic, in it's own way.  Creativley filmed and beautiful. I got lost a few times on the story though, if there was one.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Ortino on July 09, 2008, 12:46:15 PM
I'm sure there already is a thread--it's been around for awhile. Anyway, I love this film--every shot is just beautiful and the storyline (if one could call it that) is intriguing, or at least I thought so. The ball sequence at the end is simply wonderful. *Sighs dreamily* You really must watch it Alixz--it is indeed a classic!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Alixz on July 09, 2008, 12:57:01 PM
Thanks guys.  I thought there might be a thread already, but I didn't find one.  The movie was made in 2002, I think, so it has been around for a while.

I just ordered it from Amazon.  Can't wait for it to get here!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Michael HR on July 09, 2008, 03:59:22 PM
One of the most beautiful films I have ever seen
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Vecchiolarry on July 09, 2008, 09:05:00 PM
Hi,

I have the DVD and have watched it several times.  I also saw it when it came out in the cinema;  The theater was about 30% full and mostly senior citizens but over the 2 weeks it played and by word of mouth many university students were taking it up.  It was held over 1 more week.

The best parts were the presentation of the Persian ambassador to Nicholas I in St. George's Hall and the ball at the end and the descent down the Jordan Staircase (my favourite place on Earth!!)......
The film is grand and it's a good way to see the Winter Palace & the art works while eating your popcorn....

Enjoy!!!!!!

Larry
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 09, 2008, 09:15:57 PM
Popcorn! This film takes champagne & caviar! and more than one viewing to really understand it.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Vecchiolarry on July 09, 2008, 10:37:57 PM
Hi Robert,

I really don't like popcorn anyway and you're right it demands something more elegant.
But, since I don't like caviar and champagne only to toast with, I'll go for a nice Belgian chocolate & some caramels...  And, maybe a whiskey sour or old fashioned!!!!

You're right about viewing it several times - even though I am semi literate in Russian (speaking, not reading or writing) I still haven't decifered the whole thing.
Sometimes I just watch the rooms and the paintings and contents.

Larry
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 09, 2008, 11:54:32 PM
I understand, Larry. It is a complicated film to understand, yet visually a real feast. I liked the "how it was made"  extra almost as much as the film itself.
 
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: EmmyLee on July 10, 2008, 08:03:47 PM
I also loved this film for its visual quality. Because I'll likely never get a chance to go to Russia and see the Winter Palace for myself, it was a treat to "walk" through the palace by way of the film. It was a bit confusing when trying to understand what was going on with the man wandering through each room. Many thanks to Laura for putting it on her website!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Alixz on July 20, 2008, 09:07:35 AM
Well, it got here yesterday and I watched it and the making off it and that other strange thing about the three people who work in the Hermitage and the young boy who takes art lessons there.

The film itself is visually beautiful, but while reading the English subtitles, I lost a lot of the visual stuff.

The trip through the art gallery was too long and boring.  I wanted to get past the Frenchman's dislike of all things Russian and on to looking at the whole Hermitage.

I think that the director did keep most of the film in chronological order.  Peter II and his son Alexis.  Catherine II.  (But why we had to know that someone needed to take a "piss" (as they said)  is beyond me. (Sounds like my son when he was in Middle School and the usual bathroom humor).

Nicholas I.  References to the fire.  The short trips to the 1940s and to the present.  Nicholas II and his family at tea.  (Although I didn't think that they lived at the Winter Palace much when the children were that old. And I doubt that Alexandra went to tea with her family in fur and a tiara.)

I did notice GD Elizabeth wandering through the gallery toward the beginning of the art gallery sequence and of course she was walking with Alix on the way to the tea scene.

I know that the film was restricted to 90 minutes, but the director missed Alexander II and Alexander III when he moved from Nicholas I to Nicholas II.  And the reference was to 300 years of history, but the Winter Palace was began in 1754, and even if we include the 1940s shots that is only 191 years.

And of course the "last ball".  Which was a visual treat and a musical treat.   The whole soundtrack was beautiful and I now want to hear more Glinka.

I am with Robert - the making of part was worth the investment.  The idea that the whole thing was shot with out cutting is amazing.

Perhaps if I watch it again without reading the subtitles and truly looking around, I will enjoy it more.


Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 20, 2008, 11:57:43 AM
Excellent review, Alixz.  Yes, a lot of historical  "poetic license" was taken, but then it is apocryphal, after all.
 The film was made as part of St Petersburg 300th anniversary, not the Winter Palace itself. I think the present Hermitage or Winter Palace is the 3rd or 4th  version to be built, so it does date  back a lot.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Michael HR on July 20, 2008, 02:10:35 PM
I might be wrong but I believe the room used for the Nicholass II tea was the room that the Imperial famlly used for their meals while staying at the winter palace. Rather small and cosy I suppose out of all the rooms they could use. I remember seeing a plan and their rooms were not that far from the Throne room.

Every time I watch this film I spot something new.



Well, it got here yesterday and I watched it and the making off it and that other strange thing about the three people who work in the Hermitage and the young boy who takes art lessons there.

The film itself is visually beautiful, but while reading the English subtitles, I lost a lot of the visual stuff.

The trip through the art gallery was too long and boring.  I wanted to get past the Frenchman's dislike of all things Russian and on to looking at the whole Hermitage.

I think that the director did keep most of the film in chronological order.  Peter II and his son Alexis.  Catherine II.  (But why we had to know that someone needed to take a "piss" (as they said)  is beyond me. (Sounds like my son when he was in Middle School and the usual bathroom humor).

Nicholas I.  References to the fire.  The short trips to the 1940s and to the present.  Nicholas II and his family at tea.  (Although I didn't think that they lived at the Winter Palace much when the children were that old. And I doubt that Alexandra went to tea with her family in fur and a tiara.)

I did notice GD Elizabeth wandering through the gallery toward the beginning of the art gallery sequence and of course she was walking with Alix on the way to the tea scene.

I know that the film was restricted to 90 minutes, but the director missed Alexander II and Alexander III when he moved from Nicholas I to Nicholas II.  And the reference was to 300 years of history, but the Winter Palace was began in 1754, and even if we include the 1940s shots that is only 191 years.

And of course the "last ball".  Which was a visual treat and a musical treat.   The whole soundtrack was beautiful and I now want to hear more Glinka.

I am with Robert - the making of part was worth the investment.  The idea that the whole thing was shot with out cutting is amazing.

Perhaps if I watch it again without reading the subtitles and truly looking around, I will enjoy it more.



Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Alixz on July 21, 2008, 10:29:32 PM
In the "making of" section, there was mention that the room used for the tea was actually the room where the Provisional Government met to decide to ask for Nicholas's abdication.

It was a sort of ironic touch that missed most everyone unless you took time to look at the "making of".  I think I liked that part better that the actual film.

I didn't realize it was 300 years of St. Petersburg, there you see again - lost in the translation.

I do plan to watch it again and ignore the sub titles.  I am sure that I will see more of the glory of the palace the second time around.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Michael HR on July 22, 2008, 05:37:35 AM
Members should sign an undertaking to say they have watched it before they are allowed on the forum...

 :)
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: nena on July 22, 2008, 06:11:12 AM
I read about that movie; 96 minutes only one cadre...and the whole movie....True?
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Michael HR on July 22, 2008, 06:14:58 AM
Entire movie filmed in ONE shot! Never been done before and is breath taking.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 22, 2008, 11:41:31 AM
I agree, Michael HR, [and the same could be said about people who comment on books they have read!]  the film is beautiful!  I found the story, or what there is of one, confusing- with or without subtitles, but the "making of" part is essential to understanding the project itself. I have been to the Hermitage several times, and  when I see the film again, I note something new to see the next time!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Michael HR on July 22, 2008, 12:01:18 PM
Winter Palace is on my list of places when I get to Russia. I agree the making off is also fabulous and must be seen. Wish I had been an extra on that movie!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: sgc on July 22, 2008, 12:27:37 PM
Thanks guys.  I thought there might be a thread already, but I didn't find one.  The movie was made in 2002, I think, so it has been around for a while.

I just ordered it from Amazon.  Can't wait for it to get here!

I just ordered the DVD from Amazon as well, along with the historical Romanov novel entitled "Crimson Snow: The Last Desperate Days of Imperial Russia".
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Alixz on July 22, 2008, 02:17:25 PM
The idea of making a 90- minute movie with one camera and with cutting is incredible.  This director is known for his innovation.

According to the making of part - they did start and stop three times in the first twenty minutes, but the fourth time was a charm.  I guess batteries ran low (how could anyone forget batteries at a time like that) or light bulbs burst.

The steady cam operator said that just before the ball scene, he wanted to stop.  He said his legs and back and groin just couldn't take it anymore, but his assistant misunderstood him and they went on.  He then became so involved in the ball scene that he forgot his aches and was glad he did.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: halen on July 22, 2008, 05:23:44 PM
I just finished watching the Making of the Russian Ark. Brilliant. Absolutely a gem to watch. It really does boggle the mind to think that they did it in one shot. All the preparation, the timing, the technical work behind the scenes. I have more of an appreciation for the movie.

Louise
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: sgc on July 29, 2008, 06:34:57 AM

I am with Robert - the making of part was worth the investment.  The idea that the whole thing was shot with out cutting is amazing.

Perhaps if I watch it again without reading the subtitles and truly looking around, I will enjoy it more.


My DVD copy of Russian Ark arrived the other day and watched the film last night. What a fascinating project and well worth the price of admission, as they say. Plan on checking out the "Special Features" section today.

To think the finished product was all photographed using one continuous take boggles the mind in this day and age of CGI and other overly utilized digital effects. The actors were absolutely superb and had to really have their collective acts together to pull off something like this. Sort of similar to what it must have been like watching live television back in the days of the medium's infancy...minus the color, of course.

BTW: I love watching for mistakes in movies, which makes "Ark" all the more incredible as I could only spot one gaffe. Anyone else notice after the European is kicked out of one of the salons, he wanders over to view another painting. In the background, you can see the closed door he just departed from open slightly as if the actors behind it thought they'd be out of the frame of the shot and not get caught on film. Had to chuckle as I'm sure the director must have had a fit seeing this occur on his finished product!

Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: tom_romanov on July 29, 2008, 08:21:56 AM
i own this film and i think its great . for those who havent seen it - go buy it- NOW  ;)
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Imperial_Grounds on July 29, 2008, 09:37:32 AM
God, I wanna see this movie. I'll have to buy it in septemer, since my 'shop list' is made for august and there is already a quite pricy biography on it of Nicky and Alix, and also of Marie Antoinette + a new docu about Princess Diana - so that's enaugh royalty to me for one month, but I will buy it for sure after seeing pictures of it. And the Winter Palace on its own is a piece of art, history and Russian culture, which makes it probably even better. God I want too visit Russia someday ;D
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: halen on July 29, 2008, 09:49:08 AM
God, I wanna see this movie. I'll have to buy it in septemer, since my 'shop list' is made for august and there is already a quite pricy biography on it of Nicky and Alix, and also of Marie Antoinette + a new docu about Princess Diana - so that's enaugh royalty to me for one month, but I will buy it for sure after seeing pictures of it. And the Winter Palace on its own is a piece of art, history and Russian culture, which makes it probably even better. God I want too visit Russia someday ;D

You don't have to wait until September to see this movie. Go to Laura Mabee's site, Frozen Tears. She has the movie there and you can download it. She also has the making of the documentary.

http://www.frozentears.org/

This is an awesome site. You will find many great films/documentaries on the Imperial Family.

Enjoy.

Louise

Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Imperial_Grounds on July 29, 2008, 10:04:23 AM
I know about Frozentears, and most of the movies there I have in my collection. Never noticed Russian Ark was on there :-[ But i'll have to watch it really soon now ;D Once again I have to say this: Thanks Laura, for all the work you did :)
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Holly on August 06, 2010, 10:49:53 PM
On my recent trip to the Winter Palace I was quite interested in St. George's Hall. I've tried to search for information on it but I can't come up with anything and I figured someone here must know a few things about it.

Does anyone know of any important historical (or maybe not so important) things that occurred in that room or anything interesting about it?

Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Alexander1917 on August 07, 2010, 03:19:26 PM
On my recent trip to the Winter Palace I was quite interested in St. George's Hall. I've tried to search for information on it but I can't come up with anything and I figured someone here must know a few things about it.

Does anyone know of any important historical (or maybe not so important) things that occurred in that room or anything interesting about it?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_George's_Hall_and_Apollo_Room_of_the_Winter_Palace

here the first state duma was opend
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: londo954 on August 08, 2010, 01:01:00 AM
The throne was removed after the revolution and was return to its place only recently and fully restored. The Hermitage website has the whole story of the restoration
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: ArchitectCS on September 09, 2010, 08:30:05 AM
Does anyone have any pictures of what St. George's Hall looked like before the fire?  According to wikipedia, it was by Quarenghi, had colored marble columns, and a painted ceiling.
Title: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Alan on August 13, 2012, 02:10:46 PM
When I was in St Petersburg, I bought a book at the cathedral bookshop " Nicholas Romanov - Life and death" published 1998.
On the first double page after the introduction is a view of the Imperial Winter Palace in the 1900s. Photograph by K Bulla.

In addition to a stone wall with stone pillars with ironwork in between each pillar which has obviously been removed since 1918, there is a tall stone tower in the middle with a domed top and a pinnacle.

This tower is not there now. Does anyone have any information about the tower?
There are also a couple of canopied balconies that have been removed since.
Alan
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Tsarfan on August 16, 2012, 01:37:13 PM
. . . there is a tall stone tower in the middle with a domed top and a pinnacle.

This tower is not there now. Does anyone have any information about the tower?

I'm not sure which picture you are seeing.  You might be seeing the tower that held the first telegraph station in Russia, which was installed at the Winter Palace.  Is the tower near the western corner of the building?  Was there a flag flying from the tower?

You may find this link on the history of technology at the Winter Palace interesting:

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/05/hm5_13_0.html
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Jen_94 on August 17, 2012, 03:26:08 AM
When I was in St Petersburg, I bought a book at the cathedral bookshop " Nicholas Romanov - Life and death" published 1998.
On the first double page after the introduction is a view of the Imperial Winter Palace in the 1900s. Photograph by K Bulla.

In addition to a stone wall with stone pillars with ironwork in between each pillar which has obviously been removed since 1918, there is a tall stone tower in the middle with a domed top and a pinnacle.

This tower is not there now. Does anyone have any information about the tower?
There are also a couple of canopied balconies that have been removed since.
Alan

Is this the photo you are talking about?

[urlhttp://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/11/2004/hm11_5_27_00_11.html][/url]
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Tsarfan on August 17, 2012, 05:05:40 AM
If that is the picture to which Alan referred, it does, in fact, show the telegraph tower.  The first telegraph installed was an optical system, not an electrical system, whereby semaphore light signals were relayed from tower to tower . . . hence the height required for such a system.
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Jen_94 on August 17, 2012, 04:12:13 PM
Hmmm..Interesting! I wonder what happened to it? When did it get taken down?
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Tsarfan on August 17, 2012, 05:49:35 PM
Actually, as I look again at the picture you linked and at Alan's post, he might be asking about another tower.  He mentions a tower with a dome and a pinnacle, but there are two towers in the picture, both with domes and pinnacles.  However, the telegraph tower -- which has a dome and pinnacle -- is still in place over what were the imperial family's private quarters on the western corner of the building.  The thinner, taller tower set further back in the picture is no longer there.  However, it's hard to tell from the picture just where it stood, or even whether it was part of the main building.  Could it have been the smokestack for the massive power generating station that was styled to fit in with the architecture of the complex?  (However, I cannot discern any chimney opening at the top.)  Looking at paintings, prints, and photographs of the complex as the 19th century progressed, it seems to have shown up only late in the century, which could suggest a connection with electrical power generation.  But this is just speculation on my part.

If you're interested, here's another little blurb on telegraphy as the tsars would have known it:

OPTICAL TELEGRAPH, semaphore telegraph, a visual system of message transfer, using conventional signs (semaphore alphabet, light signals, visible at night as well) given within direct visibility. The St. Petersburg - Schlisselburg optical telegraph line was constructed in 1824; the St. Petersburg - Tsarskoe Selo and St. Petersburg - Gatchina lines were opened in 1833-35; and the longest-reaching optical telegraph line in the world, the St. Petersburg - Warsaw line (1,200 km), was opened in 1839, with the signal going through 149 retransmitting stations over a period of 15 min. In St. Petersburg and its suburbs, an optical telegraph was placed on the roof of the Winter Palace, on the Duma Tower, on the tower of the Technological Institute, on top of the Chesmenskaya Military Hospice building, in Pulkovo, Tsarskoe Selo, and other locations. Due to the appearance of electric telegraph operation, use of the optical telegraph was discontinued in St. Petersburg in 1854.  (St. Petersburg Encyclopedia)


Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Jen_94 on August 18, 2012, 04:22:39 AM
Hmmm...very interesting, thanks for that! I also found this about the Optical telegraph tower, with a clear photo:

http://streetroutes.blogspot.co.uk/2006_04_01_archive.html (http://streetroutes.blogspot.co.uk/2006_04_01_archive.html)

It is possible it was styled to fit in with the architecture of the complex, yes. I'd would also like to know where that taller, thinner tower stood, it does look a little like its part of the main building, but maybe not?
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Tsarfan on August 18, 2012, 06:13:04 AM
I wonder what the chances were for error in relaying a message over 149 towers.  In my experience, a message cannot make it intact from one end of a conference table to another.
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Alan on December 19, 2012, 03:35:48 AM
Sorry but I have not been on this site for some time.
Its not the small turret on the western end. Ths tower I am talking about it tall and slender with the dome on the top. It was not a tower for flying a flag and seems to be towards the other end of the Palace.
Alan
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: BobG on December 19, 2012, 07:53:45 AM
This may show the tower Alan is talking about.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/BobG_AP/1890_zpsd0cc7d24.jpg)

BobG
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Jen_94 on December 20, 2012, 06:08:54 AM
Ahhh yes! Now I see the small tower. It does look ilek the one Alan is describing.
Title: Re: The Winter Palace in 1900
Post by: Alan on December 22, 2012, 06:22:56 AM
The tall tower in Bob G's picture is the same tower to which I was referring.
So its a telegraphic tower (and I don't mean the small squat tower)?
Alan
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Brassov on January 10, 2013, 04:20:10 AM
If anyone is interested in old photographs of St Petersburg, (and Russia in general), I have found a wonderful site called Empire and Empathy.org. Some incredible photos of the Winter Palace, before the railing was removed. Also intertesting views of the side of the building where the Imperial Family apartments were. The little balcony off the corner room is there, also the radio tower and so many trees. Looked better then than now, I think.
Kindest regards and blessings for 2013
Brassov.   
Title: Did NAOTMAA Spend Much Time at the Winter Palace?
Post by: Lady Macduff on January 21, 2013, 04:35:48 PM
I know they were there for formal occasions, such as the declaration of war in 1914, but did they ever spend any extended periods of time there - ie, living there instead of Tsarskoe/Livadia/Spala/ etc? I've never come across any letters or anything indicating they were living there, just wondering what everyone else has uncovered in their research.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: Brassov on January 24, 2013, 02:43:39 AM
I have an old photograph of the side of the palace where the garden used to be. The radio tower is in front of the cupola, and looks as if it was somewhere above the Rotunda, or near the small inner courtyard avove the dressing room and bathrooms.

The trees were very thick on that side of the building, however I was wondering if anyone knows where the garden door and steps were, leading into the garden. There must have been one. What room did it lead from ?
Thanks
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: AnastasiaTheImp on May 15, 2013, 10:27:55 PM
I found these images in the Russian State Archives labeled as St Petersburg and the Winter Palace... Can anyone tell me if they are, in fact, in the Winter Palace? If so, anyone know which room? One of the photos was also labeled as the children's room. This album has several mistakes in labeling, so I wanted to double check.
http://anastasiatheimp.tumblr.com/post/50551998786
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: IvanVII on May 16, 2013, 10:53:34 PM
The narrowness of the room in the last two photos appears to be the boudiour of Empress Alexandra in the Winter Palace.
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: AnastasiaTheImp on May 17, 2013, 10:44:53 AM
Wonderful! Thanks!
Title: Re: Winter Palace
Post by: David_Newell on May 18, 2013, 01:09:40 PM
I agree, I believe the frieze may still be there.